##VIDEO ID:TVdPSLuZsco## okay we're recording please go ahead okay so for those of you that are joining us for the first time the budget coordinating group is in fact created it was actually existed before this Charter uh in a much more informal kind of way uh but it now is part of our Charter and it has representatives from the town the school and the library and it also has a representative from the regional school committee which is um we have today so with that I would like to [Music] um call the meeting to order two seconds um I Canin Dr Z will be here in a few minutes okay shall we wait since she's never been to one Paul sure yes okay and while we wait I can thank everybody who made the effort to be at Chris Chris bre's retirement event this afternoon that was really kind there are a lot of people you know a lot of elected officials appointed officials and past staff members and current staff members who are there she really deserved everybody who came out so it was really nice very nice thanks for those of you in the audience for your patience we're um waiting for the superintendent wait can dispose of the minutes those are on the agenda and I don't need a vote I just need consensus that those are acceptable and there are no changes are there any let me well let me call the meeting to order okay thank you then we'll do that uh so let's start we're recording okay um first of all it is September 26th uh this is our first meeting of the budget coordinating group during this fiscal year the open meeting law allows us to to hold meetings remotely without a quorum of all of us present uh in the room and but we still do taping of this and people can come and join us by Zoom um given that we have a quorum of this group present I'm calling the budget coordinating group to order at 408 I want to call on each of you and make sure you can hear us and we can hear you from the town Andy Steinberg um Andy you need to unmute Mandy Joe how about you present okay thank you uh from the Library Austin seret president and Nat yes I'm here thank you and from the elementary school district Bridget yes here and Irv pres and uh from the Regional School um Tillman present okay and then we have Dr Herman who is the Super tenative schools can you hear us well wait uh Paul baman can you hear us yes I can okay we have a couple different staff our new fiscal director of FIS fiscal um Melissa sski did I get it right you got it right okay uh Holly Drake and Jennifer L andain Le Fountain I I knew the minute I said it um so with that we're going to um get started if you there is no chat in this we do have an audience because it is an open meeting and uh our first item on the agenda besides um calling the meeting to order is [Music] um to uh hear the status of the f y 25 budgets uh and this is so Paul do you want to introduce this and then get started sure thank you everybody for being here um so what we have today is sort of just to give you a an update on FY 25 budget which is um um we we'll sort of little talk little talk about you know f24 isn't even C cut out isn't isn't finished yet um so we don't know how that year has has completed but we're very close to complet closing out the books on on that account and then for fy2 uh we can give you a status of where we are it's very early in the year this is the one of the earliest times we've had the BCG meeting so there's not a lot of data that we can share but Holly can give a quick overview of sort of General comments on the fy2 budget yeah um you know as Paul said I am working diligently to close out FY 24 I am very very close I am uh pretty much IM balance just trying to get everything into the state's um website for final reporting um FY 25 at this point is you know status quo for the first quarter um numbers are where I would expect them to be there there does not appear to be any um you know big surprises coming yet so I I think that um you know FY 25 is um just started and and rolling along and there's not really a lot to say about it at this point so Paul we're going to and just for those of you that are not as familiar with the budget uh Cycles somewhere around the end of October the beginning of November we do have a certification on the FY 24 budget and that will come to the council all of that usually is on our first meeting in November and in fact the BCG will meet as a body in November when all three of the boards uh meet and tman you're welcome to join us as well that will be for the financial indicators um so um we have some initial projections Paul do you want to introduce that sure so what we're used to showing a spreadsheet which we'll put up on the screen uh that will um something that most people have seen before and it's you know again we're sort of we can we've updated for what the budget is for y25 but again there's not a lot of projections or new numbers yet it's way too early um and we can talk about some of the drivers when we get to our um the next agenda item so and I think Melissa did you want to walk through it or how do you how would you like to do that so and so I I'll just frame it okay so the the first page there's two pages the first pages are could we make it a little bit larger thank you the first page is our are revenues and we we have the very detailed we we're going to have a broad overview of this the it reads left to right with fy22 actual FY 23 FY 24 and FY 25 is the budget that's been approved then FY 26 is really what we're focused on with this group and then we project out three additional years um just with some basic factors and um on that so we really want to focus on FY 26 because that's going to be the subject of the budget that's up coming uh the second page shows our expenses so and so then we have a balance at the bottom and this is a document that you'll see over and over during the course of the year it's something that we rely on and that we we show so um Melissa you you updated this do you want to sort of walk through it so we go first back to the first page I think yep so um uh like Paul said I haven't really updated any of our uh assumptions all I um really um did um as a change from what was published in uh the fiscal 25 budget based on the indicators that were done um last October November um that those are the numbers that we use to project forward and the only thing that I added from this that's different from the budget is the acknowledgement of the um additional funding that went to the school department and it is shown um highlighted because it is the only change um as the um additional 2% as both the revenue and the expense um because in when we presented the uh fiscal 25 budget um it it was not included in the original um proposed budget it was um done some time in your in your process there um so the way that this uh spreadsheet is put together it starts with um tax revenue um so you know for those of you who aren't familiar we have our base tax revenue which is based on last year's tax will Revenue the allowance for two and a half% increase over the prior year and then we're allowed to include any new growth that um that we project coming in the New Year Amis has a a practice of estimating about $650,000 of New Growth we're continuing that practice um because some years it's much higher and some years it's you know close and maybe lower um on in an anomaly year um and uh in this uh fiscal 25 and 26 budget in future years we have a debt exclusion which we hadn't had in um recent past um and that is for the new uh school project so that gets added on after you establish the two and a half% um and the overall increase in the tax revenue is slightly over 3% and that's based on New Growth that's because of the new growth and because of the additional um increase of um the uh debt excluded project uh next we have um local receipts which this is fees Motor Vehicle Tax um excise tax from hotel motel um we have some agreements with some of our nonprofits in town um housing authorities and such um a solar um pilot agreement and permits for um building a deck or putting in a pool or or other things so anything that we charge a fee for um that's estimated about a 1% increase um and you know that that could go up but it's generally in the early stages before we have a look at what happened last year we um estimate it pretty conservatively because we don't want to um assume any one area is going to go higher than the other and we always have to sort of um project that pretty closely to um what has happened over the past uh few years um then we have state aid uh state aid numbers they have put in there with a modest increase we won't haven't gotten any information from the state yet on what their fiscal 26 will look like and we'll adjust that as we get information from the state um and other financing sources is this is when we um we put money into the budget to um we have an ambulance fund so we put money in um from that to help um offset the capital cost of uh ambulance purchases I'm uh the CPA is an addition on your tax bill that is separate from Two and a Half that is for special projects and we include in this spreadsheet the CPA um amounts that are funding debt that we issued um that is approved by the CPA um we as you know we have Enterprise funds here um and water sewer and um transportation and solid waste those Enterprise um subsidize or pay a portion of general fund um staff in the way that we support um their operations we do their payroll um or or um a billing that kind of thing they pay that portion of their salary is general fund and also uh the DPW Department's um you know the director has highway is is a general fund operation whereas Water and Sewer are not so the director is over all of those and so some of those administrative staff are shared um and then there are other um free cash and stabilization time go into other financing sources uh one-time monies type of uh transactions similar to this arpa grant that I put in as other because I didn't know how else to classify it on the expense side we just break it down into the um four major categories uh Town Elementary School region school and the Jones Library um as our primary operating expenses then we have our Capital budgets um which is basically debt and cash for Capital we have a few of these broken up based on whether or not it's um debt excluded for the region if it's a current project that we've already borrowed for or if it's something that we are projecting Amis has a policy of spending um the 10.5% of the tax levy on um um capital projects to maintain our infrastructure and um support operations so um we always make sure that the cash capital and the debt um sort of come out to that that 10% to stay within our policy and um good Finance fiscal planning um and then we have um what's catalized here as miscellaneous assessments and these can be um tough because um one of them is uh the retirement assessment last year um we didn't have a very um big increase in the retirement assessment um and um so this year we are expecting that that might might pop up again that's um something for us to watch um to see if um if if we will uh if we have budgeted enough for that so we'll get that information from them is it in January Jen that get the um assessment information from the retirement um yes sometime around January and then um if I just may for one second Melissa um so we typically budget anywhere from a six to 8% increase in the um retirement assessment I believe this is set at a 6% increase last year we saw um almost no increase whatsoever um I believe this is a 6% in increases our our Norm that we're going back to yeah and and would you agree um Holly that we talked about that it might be more than sick because last year was low we're sort of um anticipating that there might be a an increase there but we don't know yet soly is a possibility but yes we we do not we will not know that for a few more months um the the way the retirement assessment works just so um folks know is they do a snapshot in time and that snap shot in time will be um September 30th everybody that we have on payroll as of September 30th and what we project their annual um salary will be is how the Retirement Board assesses each one of the cities and towns in the Hampshire County Retirement System so depending on um you know salaries at that time and vacancies at that time that number could be higher or lower if every single seat in the towns um is is full our assessment is going to be higher if we have a lot of vacancies on September 30th um it it could possibly be lower which was the case last year but we don't have a ton of vacancies this year as we had in the prior year so I would suspect that would be at the six to eight% increase as it normally is yes Qui point on can we just confirm councelor Lord can hear and be heard please hi uh Hala can you hear us yes thank you I can hear you can you hear me we can and Dr Herman can you hear us yes I can thank you so much um okay so that's the retirement assessment um again we haven't changed assumptions um but it's something for us to watch um and then we have the um OPB that we um have a practice of increasing by $50,000 a year so that um increases in this um miscellaneous and then the uh final section of the expenses is um what's called unappropriate uses and that's because they're not actually appropriated in the budget per se so um there are several um assessments that come from the um the state um that are netted from our um local receipts so we have to recognize them and understand the net amount that will the town will receive for um for for local Aid okay um so just l so the net result we're showing at this point is about a $468,000 deficit which is not unusual at this time of year because our our estimates are very conservative on both revenue and on expenditures and there's with expenditures we you know we have been conservative at a 2 and a half% increase and also just to note you know that the we have not included the 355,000 that the additional 2% that was given to the schools last year through from arpa funds in this and I know that that's going to be a point of conversation probably today as at least the first conversation on that as well okay so this is an opportunity to ask questions about our revenue and expenditures and in the broad way that presently seeing it uh we this may or may not be the same amount same presentation that we base the um November 4th meeting on um in when we do with the financial indicators but uh hopefully although last year things got a little rocky with the state it gets a little bit better but again as I mentioned last year the state actually did midyear recision but it didn't hit education it hit mostly nonprofits um Paul is there anything you want to highlight on this or are there other are there people who have questions or would like clarification please use the raise hand button IR please go ahead all right I I'm looking at the uh region number of 8944 970 and Paul you just said something that that is our final number that we had um but it does not include the gift so so if that's an fy2 it was 18482 898 plus 35544 so what we are projecting for this year is we did a 2 and a half infl increase over the original appropriation which was the 18482 and and that brings it to 18944 so um so it it it's it's about level from what you have nowes that make sense just just I just want to clarify uh the region received a 300 plus th000 gift uh and I'm just wanting to know whether that 18944 970 represents that gift and that is the base that this is projected on it does not include it does not represent that this would be just the normal two and a half% increase without the gift without the gift yes yeah all right thank you I think and just if I can so just we want to be as transparent and clear about what we're presenting we know this is the first conversation so just want to be really clear about what's on the table here thank you Bri hi I just had a couple of questions um is the 3% um that's um the actual New Growth or Does it include that or is it that assumed amount of 650,000 that was my first question we can go back up to that first sheet yeah so the the 650,000 is um an assumed amount so do we know the actual um growth for the year or no no that's um that's done at at recap time so this is for the year that we're in um the FY 25 is for the year we we are in okay great and then um the other question I had was um just if we know how much is like is there money available left in free cash or is free C is it the same deal we won't know until all the funds go back in and so the free crash number would be for 24 but I didn't see a number there either um so the free cash hasn't been certified yet so we're we're waiting on that so H Hollywood is working on the free cash we will get that certified hopefully before our November meeting so you we'll know what free cash is for this year um before you know within the next month or so all right is that is that Holly anything else you want to add to that yeah so with free cash free cash is certified um typically in the fall after all of your year end um reports are filed and then you can choose to appropriate from free cash we did appropriate from free cash for some things um mostly moving to our um stabilization funds you know per our financial policy in fy2 24 these fy2 24 numbers will be updated and finalized um they are balanced to what is called the recap they are balanced but they they do not reflect any changes or um transfers from free cash I don't believe yet um again what will happen in FY 25 is as soon as our free cash is certified we will follow our financial policies likely and move money into stabilization funds and capital stabilization funds and possibly appropriate money out of free cash and fy2 when it comes to FY 26 that's we have no idea what our free cash will be a year from now so in our FY 26 we can't project anything we could have zero free cash or we could have plenty of free cash but we don't make any assumptions on that this far ahead if that helps or make sense no it's perfect I just feel like last time we went through I saw a number of like nine million and I was like wait where' that go what's going on but I I see that you're working on those 24 numbers again right those 24 numbers have been we did appropriate some money out of the free cash 9 million was a starting number of our free cash but that's not what the final again as people have told me many of times over the year it's not cash and it's not free it's basically it's a very funny um label calculation thanks uh Dr Herman you have your hand up I do so um Looking Through My Lens at 355 440 you said it was it's now projected as both revenue and expense so it kind of um balances itself off like a a net zero yes that's true okay and then for the projections for FY 26 and I can't help but look at that lens in terms of the expenses for the town we are reverting back minus the two but is there a consideration of how to keep that 35540 in for the region for the upcoming year I think that's sort of the topic of you know I think the the school committee and you will say we want that money um and I think this Town Council and town said that was onetime money when it happened it was it was understood to be onetime money but it you know that's what this conversation is going to be about okay and how is school choice a revenue just for my ignorance because I'm not sure how is it a revenue for the town because it's a major expense for the region those are the people that choice in is my understanding is that correct Paul so who's who wants to take on explaining how choices [Laughter] calculated so so well choices counted uh calculated by by pupil and you have choice in and choice out so um I will say that choice is is recognized as Revenue um in the town budget but um I believe that you have school choice um in the region um as well that is um it's called an offset see how it says offset receipt above um school choice in Sue library library so that that money is counted and then also as part of an offset to only be used for schools so um you should probably have on your books um at the region something called the ch ch school choice account and that is your choice money in for students that are coming in from out of district and choosing ammer schools as a preference um you know either from Hadley or Northampton or um Hatfield um and typically what I've seen in other communities and I can't speak to how it is here but that's usually used as a um an account um in the school departments to stabilize their budgets right a revolving fund I'm just trying I'm I'm trying to to wrap wrap my mind around it so thank you for that I have so if I if I can maybe help explain a a little bit more is those two offset receipts that you see in the yellow column for FY 26 that are um projected at the same as last year the 708 951 for the school choice tuition and then the public libraries 151 that comes to $860,000 that money goes directly to the schools and directly to the public library so if you scroll down to the expense side you will see that as an expense as well the second yeah right there that 8673 comes into the town and then goes directly back out so it has a Net Zero Effect on our budget it does not help us it is for the schools and the libraries okay but I but I think also what you're asking about something in here where it says State assessments this three million oh okay uh most of that is choice and Charter out right and so that's what you're you know I hear your concern that's I'm okay because I don't see it as a gain but I thank you for that councelor hanii yeah that conversation I guess from a council point of view I just want to sort of put my the lens I look at that in and all if you look at all the state aid Chapter 70 is also listed here um which is school school state aid um and I've always thought of it as the elementary school state aid as well as the element as well as the unrestricted government state aid for municipalities and all comes in and is listed on this budget um and then you know Chapter 70 was barely over 1% government for fy2 unrestricted government Aid was about 3% I think that last year correct um all of that gets into our total revenues and then we the way I look at it is we then split those total revenues up between the four entities one of which is the elementary school full budget that that for fy2 the 269 is I believe your total budget um minus revolving funds the town's 28 is the municipal operating the region is not the total it's just Amorous assessment but the way I've looked at it as by putting it into our budgets and not um for the elementary school not having that pulled out and and not included in say this budget um the elementary school budget gets the benefit of the increase in unrestricted government Aid that is above the increase in Chapter 70 where you know that that that 1% low Chapter 70 is split out actually amongst all four operating lines all four major operating lines because it's included in this budget is another way I I guess I look at it um so when ugga is high and Chapter 70 is low all four major town major things split that difference and benefit from a high UGA and detriment from a low Chapter 70 so that the low Chapter 70 is not borne by just the elementary school budget the way I've started looking at it is on finance because it's included in this full budget line instead of pulling out the school aid from what sort of the elementary school gets from the overall budget areation yeah are there that is um so in other words each of us gets some level of State age Library schools and um the town and depending on who's getting a higher percent the others benefit from that percentage uh is there a any other qu clarifying questions okay then I'm going to um go to the next item on our agenda which is to go around the table and talk about our challenges by if you will segment uh for fy2 and Beyond and we'll start with the regional schools then go to the elementary schools the library and the town uh so uh with the regional schools uh all of you that are here from schools serve on the Regional School District uh committee and we also have Dr Z so uh are there anybody who wants to take the lead on the challenges with regard to the Regional School I I would um defer to Dr Z going and then uh other members uh of the schools can go thank you um I think I started off with my major challenge um critically at the Regional School it with the 35540 440 being a one-time consideration um which would revert and we've done our numbers minus the 2% and we increased by just 2.5% we would be operating at about a $2.6 million deficit um that can equate to up to 35 positions um what I met with my team today um and we passed through actually the past couple days is what are the possible scenarios um of how the region can look in the wake of cuts it's it's going to be a cut it's either going to be 2.6 or it can be 1.8 so um for for us one of the major challenges at the region is one trying to create a picture of what the region would look like with the without the 35540 and um creating a realistic budget or a realistic programming to meet the basic needs of our students with what we are possibly faced with so that's the region okay uh did you what are there other people from the regional school committee who would like to speak Tillman yes thank you um so I think there's a there's a fundamental challenge that the region and probably the other schools have too that um with an assumed increase of 2.5 year-over-year the um the gap between how much the state covers and how much the town's contribution cover widens and basically the 2.5 are not making up for the cost of living increases or the the inflationary increases of the school budget so if we take a year-over-year level Services budget um those come out to be 6% similar to you know how for example the um the retire fund that you mentioned earlier right they're also not adhering to the 2.5 because it's just more expensive and and I think we see the same in the in the school now the the state a is I forget maybe 40% of the overall budget but that has been pretty level over the years which means that cost of living increase is all something that the towns need to cover and if the towns don't then that leads to Cuts you year after year after year and so there's um there's something fundamentally unsustainable in the way the the budgets are handled and the 2.5% allowable increase I think is at the core of that challenge and so at some point maybe not today but in the future I want to talk a little bit more about why that is a starting point for um units that are structurally different and cannot sustain that in that low increase um without making cut after cut after cut are there other people from the regional school committee that would mean anybody from the school committee uh Bridget yeah I guess um we were all there when we had um Tracy novic in from the state and she said one of the state assumptions is that we go according to municipal growth index so that just interesting to me because you know that falls above the 2.5 but we don't know what that number is really right at the moment with the 650 assumed figure so that's just a technicality I guess the other thing that I found interesting from that presentation was like given the SOA like one of the principles underlying that is that our town has more me means to fill the Gap in one dimension in terms of the income available from you know the residents in the town but in another dimension because we're losing students they hold us harmless and they give us more State money so I think the the piece that I sort of take away from that is like it's a complex thing but they put some of the onus back on the town which fair or unfair that's sort of the situation that we're in and um out of that I think we just have to look that we're in this context we've had 20 years of cuts in the Regional Schools 35% of the teaching staff since 20 2003 and so if we're looking at either of these numbers 1.8 million and cuts are 2.6 I'm just again afraid we're going to be in this situation of a downward spiral where we're providing not the best you know we're not the best not even not the best but just a Medi education and more and more people leave our schools the types of cuts we're looking at is just basic core classes we wouldn't be able to offer maybe students would have to take them online or something else and I'm in some schools where that happens right now and frankly oftentimes it just doesn't qualify as education so I'm concerned I'm concerned of these discussions I understand budgets you know have their limits but I also just worry that I feel like we really need to think early on about how we're going to support the schools B you still have your hand up I just rais it but I just wanted to weigh in in terms of the region it's really concerning to me about the projections that U uh Dr Z presented uh the 2.5 million projected cut uh which uh from my my perspective uh if we uh at a minimum went back and uh added that um gift um to our projection and made that our base going forward for 26 that that would still mean that we would have some Cuts uh about about the magnitude about 1.8 I believe so what I I know that uh I believe that the school committee the region will be asking for uh that base to be uh to include the 350,000 whatever uh gift as we go forward to uh to mitigate against the $2.5 million projector cut that is something I know that we are going to be asking for and we might as well put that on the table now okay are there anybody is there anybody else from the school committee that would like to speak before I call on other people okay Mandy Joe you had I mean councelor Hanah you had your hand up thank you um I just had a I have multiple questions but I had one question that I'm hoping Dr Z can um explain to me um in in her comments she said that the cut they've projected would either be 2.6 million or 1.8 million and the 1.8 which is a decrease of $800,000 is if the 355 is added back in but 355 is not close to 800,000 so I guess my math is not Computing could you hopefully explain how adding 355,000 back in that arpa money back in results in $800,000 less of a deficit instead of just $355,000 less of a deficit sure um two things we took into consideration one we put back into the % for all towns um the 2.6 million that I presented and and I when I presented it to the school committee um I thought it was just if we had removed the 2% from ammer and pelum from the base but it's actually we removed the 2% from all four towns on the base um and so if we remove the 2% from all four towns and then just increase at 2.5% then we would be at a $2.6 million deficit however if we kept the 2% from all four towns and increased I believe again to 2.5% we'll still be at a 1.8% deficit knowing that this year we're also looking at the fact that we are entering in apaa negotiations um and they're going to be looking for um their Cola uh what we have projected right now we're trying to hold study to is like a 2.5% Cola and that's where we're projecting out and as well as our transportation RFP goes out this year okay so it's based on the region as the total thank you that does clarify that Andy You're you have your hand up yes thank you um no I appreciate the um challenge that that were being described from the regional schools and uh I think that it's sort of this ongoing problem that we're going to have to talk about also fourtown meetings because that's for it's a fourtown dialogue that needs to happen also but the reality is is that ultimately and those of us who've been dealing with Municipal Finance for a long time um have lived it for many years is that we have the 2 and 1 half% cap that has been in place since 1980 um and and uh that without an override you can't um or New Growth that you're limited in the largest um source of revenue for municipalities by 2 and a half% um last year uh we all know what happened when I've talked to when I've looked into the question of why were CHP and lever at a to come into fourtown meeting barely late in the process and um offer a larger amount and part was because of uh the fact this gets into the weeds of uh two and a half but um they did not in Prior years always um have a budget that was using the full amount of their tax levy limit which is what the limit is that you're um given by the 2 and a half legislation and um so that when you um in a given year if you choose not to increase by 2 and a half% you have the right to come back in Future years and tax to that additional amount without going for an override um ammer um is under more pressure for variety ities of reasons and uh so we are always very close to 2 and A2 or at 2 and 1 half% and we have no excess u in our lovey limit um but you know we have to we have to live with the uh realities that we deal with and of course the other thing that has happened in recent years is that uh think we all know that the student Opportunity Act has created this problem for districts like ours um and that's both regional and local that um we've been getting far less of an increase than we had been receiving in Prior years in chapter 78 and that that's going to last until the legislature does something different or the student Opportunity Act is fully funded which is still away um the last thing that I just wanted to let you know is that uh as uh one of the people who's able to be on the fiscal policy Committee of the MMA these are issues that we talk about all of the time because they affect every city and town in the Commonwealth it's uh obviously affects those of us who are not student opport Unity act um communities greater but it is affecting everybody and we are trying to present that as part of our package to the legislature is I know the super uh the school committee Association um superintendents uh are also presenting the same request to the legislature uh we just have to keep at it but that's uh the the reality that I just want to put out there and and just one tagline onto that um as much as Joe kerford our Senator uh tried very hard to take the commissioner of educa I mean the Secretary of Education up on the promise to look at Chapter 70 when that was at one point in the budget discussions it did not make it into the the commission to do that did not make it into the final budget so there is not a study at this point labeled for Chapter 70 like we had hoped there would be are there other comments on the Regional Schools then let's go uh yes Bridget just really quickly I'm wondering if in the pilot numbers included on what Holly um put here if there's um's new agreement included in the pilot and then as sort of a followup on that the region um you know the region isn't included in that like as a separate Municipal entity so like I'm just wondering if that's something you know I think we have to look at any and all sources of revenue you know and so each place we can go to so I'm just wondering if those numbers are here and if there was any disc of that regarding the region or not that I'm not privy to can I just clarify because there's there there's actually the region the agreement we have with the University of Massachusetts that's one thing in addition to that state land does produce a pilot amount of pilot money and I am assuming that if any of the other towns have state land and I believe they do uh they actually get the pilot money and that would be part of their overall Revenue so Paul I think it's the really the question in this case really focuses on the UMass agreement yeah so there two different things as Lynn said the pilot is one thing but I think you might be talking about Bridget the Strategic partnership agreement and the and the and the schools do get money directly from that from the University for that about I don't have the number off the top of my head I can send you that agreement but it's spelled out in the agreement on how much money the schools get and that does not hit our books I I believe Holly I think that goes directly to the schools Holly um yes I believe the UMass strategic partnership goes into a revolving Fund in the elementary schools and then um other parts of it um mainly used for uh funding our fire department ambulance CMS Services yeah the and the uh you and the yeah go ahead sorry go ahead L the pilot is something that is set by the state we not we we can't get more money out of the pilot that is that is a payment in Li of taxes that is calculated by the state that is nothing that we have control over the Strategic partnership is what we have negotiated um you know with UMass and that's I believe like I said what you were everybody says what you I think you're referring to it is I just say just quick followup is that I know some other towns like us like UMass Dartmouth towns towns with a lot of state land were looking or something different from the state legislature in that also this year but they didn't get it so we've actually joined in that fight um we've I can share testimony where we've testified on behalf of both the state land pilot and also the pro the pilot that would essentially tax uh nonprofits which would be public high private highered institutions medical institutions and other nonprofit profits in that case probably only nonprofits that are over a million dollars and worth so we worked very hard to try to get them to look at not just the land that UMass has but what's on that land and all the people that come to it and they don't do it it's disgusting thank you uh Paul just the Strategic partnership agreement has $200,000 a year for the schools that goes to the schools and the schools can allocate that as they see fit right and the ammer college I believe this year was 100,000 and it went to the um Family Center is that what I is that correct that was a separate I'm not sure exactly what the schools got from them that that wasn't any agreement we have at this point are there other uh comments about the regional budget our questions okay then let's look at the elementary school and uh let's um it's the still the the goal is to talk about our challenges in the coming year and going forward do we want to start with Dr Herman she she may be just she may have another call going on um Bridget or Irv um Elementary School I mean honestly as of this time we really haven't put forth any projected budget for the elementary schools uh and uh and and obviously you can understand why at this particular point in time that our Focus really has been so far on the region because we see that as a very problematic uh budget situation uh and uh and the near future I assume that Dr Z uh at an upcoming elementary school committee meeting will be presenting projections for that um okay Dr Z did you yeah please sorry I had to run to the restroom and so um we have started um the budget process and laying out our projections for fy2 we're not complete as yet cuz we've halted to prep the region for um the four towns meeting what we have been doing right now is um laying out all of our staffing and our concerns one of the major concerns that we're looking at is as we plan for FY 26 we're projecting out because we have to plan two for FY 27 so we're trying to be very mindful of the new staff that we've brought in um as well as what staffing needs we may have because of the projected consolidation so as we well the consolidation of Fort River and wildwood into the new Fort River for FY for school year I've been saying FY for school year 2026 fiscal year 2027 sorry so um the conversation around the amaris FY 26 budget has begun um we have started laying it out based on where we currently are we are going to have some curricular needs as we do our curricular audits um so we realize that we have a few gaps in subject areas so our supplies and and where we lay it out operationally May shift um and then we're also looking at when we would need to or what we would do in terms of sixth grade for the upcoming year um which would be on F fiscal year 26 we know that Fort River does not have a lot of space and because of the programming of commantis and the Explorers it causes for a larger sixth grade population than the school May or may not be able to hold so we may have to shift um programming in that sense so um we should be able to project out and final once we get through this week um I think we have Amis on our weekly budget meeting for next week with my team so I think by mid October we should be prepared to project out FY 26 for um the Amor element but those are the major things that we're looking at okay are there any other comments from school committee members about the elementary school budget then let's move to the library we have Natt and we have Austin thank you Lynn so again thank you for the opportunity to be part of the uh part of the the group is very valuable to understand all the challenges the town faces the library budget will as always be strained uh by you know Personnel needs and also by needs for programming uh but that's something that we we face every year I have a question um about the budgeting process and I know I should understand this but I'm I'm not really sure I do so one model of a budgeting process is that entities like the library or the schools are invited to submit um budget requests that reflect their real needs um and then the town would deliberate about how it's going to meet those real needs another model of budgeting which is the one I think the town um um uses is kind of here's what we can give you it's two and a half percent now Fe fit your budget to that that may be a very sound way of budgeting but in a way what it does is it keeps hidden what the real needs are so if the library or the schools or anybody else was to present a budget that showed a need for a 6% increase then we would all know what the things are that the the those entities needed and if they couldn't be funded they couldn't be funded but then we'd at least have them on the table so uh I just want to make sure that that conversation is part of our conversation that if we if we budget to a 2 and a half% increase uh we may not fully see what all the all the needs are though one can say that we're all here and we can talk about what those real needs but from the point of view of the library what I said before is uh the case will will manage as we have in the past with a 2 and a half% increase there will be some challenges in the operational budget associated with uh the need to uh have a temporary relocation if we go to um uh an alternative site as we will when the renovation and expansion plan um goes forward are there other comments Matt he are there questions for the library okay Paul you have your hand up yeah I just wanted to respond to um Austin's and he's ABS absolutely right there are two models one is you say what you need and then see if you can fund it the second is the model that the town of amest has always followed which is you say here's how much money we have we do not have additional sources of revenue we're restricted by prop two and a half and we share everything that we have out there so we always start we as Town start as a revenue model saying here how much we have how do you want to divide up the pi basically is what we say and we have very limited ways to make that Pi bigger so um we could do a zerob based budgeting model where everybody starts at zero and people have to come and justify every dollar that they receive um that's a well way more complex and um timec consuming process but it's certainly one that some communities or some areas do um but I think you know the the challenge for that is that there aren't o other than a proposition to and a half override there aren't other major sources of revenue that can really address what the needs of our community are so I agree with all all that my um my point was simply to surface something that I worry about year in and year out and that is that we want to make sure that we and again I'm speaking now about the library and this is but it's not particularly a library problem are clear with everybody about what our real needs are that may not surface if we are budgeting to the 2 and a half% they can service other ways uh that that's my concern I understand there are limited revenues but you could still come uh you could still come to the understanding that we're only going to give you two and a half percent so it's it's less about the budgeting model Paul than it is to just make sure that we're all being clear with the town and the the citizens about what the real needs are um Andy yeah uh having been involved in budgeting um in both forms of government and the last 20 years uh I think the one thing that um has to be recognized is that Austin is absolutely right uh in that it doesn't deal with need but um the other part of that is that that's true of our town departments too so that if Paul talks to um department heads in any one of the Town departments and we hear this at the finance committee there is always um we we really need more and these are the things that we did not ask for because it doesn't fit within our budget and uh you know whether um it's Recreation or police or whoever I mean I think that um I probably hear it from most departments and I would suspect that Paul even hears a lot more than finance committee does um councelor hanin um I was going to say some of the same thing that that Andy just said um and in some sense something I've been asking Our Town manager for a couple years for is I I will say the schools are very good at discussing their needs versus what is available um particularly the region um but and it gets out there and the public knows that but the life library to some sense the elementary school but not as much um and the municipality aren't as good at doing that for whatever reason and I'm not placing blame on anyone but I think it it gives a potentially distorted picture as to how much the limited budget we have does it does restrict all four sectors of Our Town Line um and is there a way and and maybe this is what Austin was going to how can we as a town better communicate to the residents that all four towns have the needs that they see so clearly from particularly the region but also the elementary schools um and and I I don't know I'm not the one that presents a budget right and and maybe that's a discussion if it was presented better maybe there would be a different discussion here at BCG and at the Council on how to um distribute to the four sectors after all of the other sets of the um expenditure side are done Capital miscellaneous and appropriated uses because those you can't really for some of them you can't really finesse them um to lower numbers some of them are State mandated um but we've operated on a two and a half I know it's getting Beyond we haven't done municipality yet Lynn so sorry um but um maybe that's why these conversations I found them the last couple of years kind of stilted um and maybe that's part of it is because we're not as elected officials seeing the full needs of the towns as well as we should be seen or could be seen and neither is the public Melissa thanks Lynn I just wanted to um address those concerns I um you know I'm new here and I'm not as familiar with ammer process um as everyone else here but um one of the things that Paul asked me to do when I first got here was to meet with um all of the Departments to have that conversation about what are the needs versus um what the budget budget ask is so that we could start developing that conversation Beyond um the internal discussion because I think that Paul is probably and Holly and Jennifer are very aware of the needs of the individual Municipal departments um internally but um to your point I guess maybe not a lot of that is communicated and I think that a bit of a cultural thing too for the Municipal Employees because I got a lot of feedback from those department heads like well we don't want to make ways it's not US versus them we live within our means we're being a team player and I you know I had to share with them that you know you you can't you can't get what you don't ask for and so if people don't know that you know you're your department has shrunk by 10% that you're down Staffing um then they don't know so you have to at least make that statement and I said that to them saying and it probably won't change the outcome but at least then it would be communicated so to the best of our ability I think that we're going to try and incorporate that kind of um explanation about more about what services are provided and what services may or may not be lost by um the fact that we are also constrained by Revenue limitations Bridget yeah I appreciate what Austin said and um and I definitely also see that side that Melissa says like certainly you know as an Amorous resident I feel strongly supportive of all the town employees right like I want the fire etc etc to um you know police Etc to feel supported but I do think it's an interesting question to think townwide if we're looking at a cut of 35 Staff in the Regional Schools is that more important like is one detective more of a priority than two teachers or two firefighters some of those decisions are real decisions too and I think it's fair as a town for us to democratically mold them if you know what I mean even though you know I don't want to see anyone go if people are going I think we really have to look very hard at our priorities and there's also some baked in historical factors to the funding that we replicate in terms of historical inequities when we go up 2% each year so you've got like X Department maybe was highly prioritized on the federal level with certain funding and so but they're still going up at 2% so they're doing really well where education for example we know was not and even the historical issues of gender pay gaps where we know amist isn't doing well and in large part that's because teachers aren't well paid so I don't know I'm just thinking it's a it's a really important question I'm not sure what the solution is but I'm glad Austin raised it Irv when we talk about needs and if you're talking about a needs based budgeting process uh when when it comes to the schools uh it's it's not only the Staffing that we're talking about it's it's it's about what all of our students bring to the classroom on a day-to-day basis those needs that have to be met some of those needs are mandated to be met by state and federal go government I.E special education uh but more importantly the needs that each individual student brings to the classroom those needs cannot be ignored we can't ignore them there's no way for us to ignore the needs of that person in the classroom we can't no matter what we we we try to do we cannot ignore those needs so our needs from my perspective Rises from a different place because we have to service individual students kids children every day every single day those kids show up at our doors and they have needs and those needs are reflected in our budgeting process and I I just want I mean sometimes people say well you know get to live within your means I mean that's that that's the kind of story that has been told to a lot of low-income people all the time live within your means and what happens is that living within means means that those kids go without and that's not something I think Amis is willing to do Melissa you still have your hand up okay um I'm going to save my comment uh unless anybody has anything else to say about schools or Library we're going to go on to Municipal um I could start with my list but I'm going to let other people start with theirs Paul do you want to start sure so we can talk about the things that affect everybody first because you know we had a meeting yesterday that um where we started talking about health insurance and what those projections in increases look like and they're it's an ugly picture it affects us all all of us all of our budgets uh and they're looking at 10 to 15% increases for health insurance um you know we are we've talked with the schools we're looking at probably trying to budget 133% um it's our sort of Base number and it's that's a devastating number um last year we got it under 10% by uh well we've got under 10% um and you know there's there's reason for it we we review the claims and all the things so that's that's going to be that's going to be a budget hurdle it's going to be enormous and it's going to and it's we have to provide Insurance uh to our to our employees the other thing is we you know I think Holly and Melissa talked about the retirement assessment that had was near zero last year we're projecting it to be average this year it could come in above average if they try try to make up um so we don't know what that number is going to be Jen said that we'll get that in January but that number could be higher than what we have actually projected so that's a that's a concern for us that again affects all all of the all the town employees which includes the elementary school the library and the town um like the schools are union we have an unsettled one unsettled contract for firefighters and we have the other contracts coming due in FY 26 so we'll be in negotiations with all of our iions this year um again those unsettled contracts just like the schools we don't know where those going to land uh and whatever the agreement is we wind up with we're driven by what we can afford and we try to translate that to our Collective barting unit said um it you know there's no there's no magic pot of money to be had it's just what we have um and so you know and I think you know just to respond we you know Melissa is talking to our departments about what their true needs are you know we've seen departments who have really um had to pay for fuel costs things that they're taking out of their budget and they just sto buying other things because of the needs so we can we we can begin to document all that I don't know if it's a real benefit rather than just my personal thing is you is I think we live within the what we're given and we work through that and uh but I do think that politically it doesn't serve my employees very well quite honestly um Holly or Jen or Melissa other concerns those were sort of General things the collective bargaining things is is more specific to the town but it does include the the um Library as well because they're collect they're bargained uh they're part of our bargaining units did I miss we had we had made hly what we miss yeah just one more thing is um we actually as well as meeting with um our health insurance yesterday we met with our Property and Casualty Insurance Company um because our renewals are set for October 1st and we have found that those prices as well um because of many many many reasons out there in the insurance field are increasing at approximately 15% as well um granted it's a much smaller number than our health insurance is but it's it's more than the 2 and a half% that we have in the entire pie so it just keeps eating up pieces of the pie so that's increasing by um approximately 15% this year as well and part of the driver of that is The General Insurance Marketplace but also our our experience we're getting lots of claims insurance claims and I'm sure the region is having the exact same issue that we are yeah absolutely so the thing that keeps me up about about the municipal budget is the same thing that many each of you are kept up over and it's our absolutely crumbling infrastructure we have if I hear about roads from my district one more time I will just tell you it outweighs anything else I hear about and the last figure I heard was probably two years ago and that's 40 million and that's not even talking about the sidewalks and then on top of that I'm so delighted we are building a new elementary school but we have three other major capital projects on the books that have been on the books for as long as I've been involved in in local government which goes back to n to 2015 in 2005 I'm sorry fire stations and dpws so that is what keeps me thinking about the budget that does not even recognize the fact that I am sure that Melissa and Paul and other people in finance have heard the requests for at least four firefighters they've heard the requests for every Department who have gone down and then we get to the point that like the schools we can't hire and fill some of our vacancies because we're not competitive in the marketplace anymore so we're having some of those very same problems I'm kind of like Paul I live within my means but I I worry about these other things and Bandy Joe you can add to what you worry about so Lynn mentioned it last I was going to talk about all of our empty positions and all of our major retirements and the fact that it took us an entire year to hire an inspector for our new rental registration program that is paid for out of fees um we are having hard times from what I hear hiring and you have to wonder whether some of it is the pay rates that we can't raise you know as I I appreciate Paul [Music] saying he tries to protect the staff and live within the means and not put it out there but politically I think it gives the wrong impression to our residents as to how the municipality is fairing Visa V the schools um in particular but also the library right we all know that those increases are above 2 and 1/2% on personnel and we're living within 2 and a half% and so just like the schools we've Frozen our um you know our non-personnel expenditures you look at that budget and most of that non-personnel operations is fairly Frozen um I look at our capital and worry that people will try to say well you can just decrease Capital to increase operating but then it puts us in the exact same spot we've been in for a decade when we did that to not fire people in ' 08 during the 08 recession and that's been a disaster going forward we we can't afford frankly we cannot afford to decrease our Capital allocation because it will just get worse and worse in the future and cost more and more um I worry that we can't do what we need to do um for the schools for the municipality for you know Irv talked about legal requirements at the state for the schools there's legal requirements to pay stuff and do stuff for the municipality on the municipality size too um I worry we can't continue where we are with the level of state aid we've gotten without asking for a proposition two and a half operating override but all we hear is it's already unaffordable to live in ammer um those are the things that go through my mind that that there isn't money out there but there's a whole lot of needs and how do we split it up um in an equitable way that serves all of our residents all 40,000 of them in the best way possible Lyn didn't mention the demands we're hearing for other infrastructure projects of major building capital projects that we as counselors here demands for all the time that I don't know how to fit it into a budget and I'm not sure we can um because it's just not going to be affordable for the kind of town that amorist residents say out loud they want a town that is a wide range of economic levels um a wide diversity of cultures um but that requires property taxes to not to be affordable for all to be affordable for all and that means we have to not necessarily go after 2 and a half which means we have to find a way to live within our means and I just don't know how I muted because I didn't want to gasp uh Andy do you have anything you want to add what keeps you awake at night I think that uh it's really been expressed by U everybody and what keeps me awake at night is is as much thinking about the library and the schools as thinking about the town um I think about all the things we fund with the budget and I you know we questions sort of was came up is how did we ever come around to creating a formula each of the operating budget segments gets the same increase each year I think it really came out of the town meeting days in the finance committee of the town meeting and just the realization that you didn't want to sit there town meeting and have endless debates about who had the greater need you needed to come up with an with a formula a method that would avoid void that kind of a um battle taking place and the way that town that the finance committee came up with it was to say let's just do the amount that was uh equal across the equal across the board for each of the major segments which is the four pieces that are represented here and um the other thing I just wanted to um say as an observation at some point and I'll say it now so I don't have to ask to be recognized again is that I was on the finance committee when um we made the recommendation to create the budget coordinating group and I think that it was if I look back on decisions that I was involved in making in Prior years I think it was one of our best decisions because it has created a forum that allows us to have the kind of open dialogue that we have and to increase an understanding of the problems of each of the segments because we're always elected to look at one but we want to look at the whole and U I think that this uh meeting today is evidence that uh all those years ago we made the right call right so we don't want to end on modling note we do have to approve some minutes but uh I'm GNA call Holly and other people I I want to just before I do Holly is I want to add to what Andy just said this is about the most Frank conversation that we have across our three four if you will branches of our government and it doesn't what I don't want people to go away with is suggesting for one moment that if you represent one branch you don't value the other and the others I mean I spent seven years of my life as a public school teacher so I certainly value education um so it's and and I've you know you know known to support the library and Dread what will happen if we can't go forward but um it's trying to put all this together in a way that as Mandy Joe said um addresses what the 40,000 people who live in our town want and recognizes by the way that a good portion of those are students who don't even live here year round but Holly I'm I'm reluctant to even say anything at this point but um one of the things that I just wanted to point out is that you know just that I agree there are some fundamental problems in the way that we can raise money as a municipality um property taxes are high 60s close to 70% of our revenues we are bound by proposition two and a half new New Growth is the only thing that increases for us and New Growth is new buildings that were never on the tax roles before and that is obviously going to at some point be something that's not going to be sustainable um any longer and then the other part in the you know High Teens close to 20% is state aid which once again we have no control over we can't say we're going to increases by 5% 6% 10% that those are property taxes between property taxes and state age Aid last year it was 88% of our Revenue things that we cannot control and we cannot get more money out of they are the the calculations in the the way that money comes in is nothing that we can control so it there there clearly are some some problems with the way that municipalities are are basically our hands are tied in in terms of making new revenue and it's it's very unfortunate um I personally and this is just a complete personal note is that I don't want to see people fighting over the money and when the town decided at some point as Andy was saying to just make it even for everybody um seemed like a great idea at the time still seems like a good idea in my mind but it is hurting the other folks and it's not that nobody cares it's just it is the town's policy so I just wanted to throw that out there thank you sir hanii thank you I I wanted to make another comment on something that that uh Tillman talked about when he was talking about the region of the region had a six% level services and state aid increases less than 6% a year and so the towns are having to make up that difference which requires to make up that difference more than 6% increases in town assessments um and I want to bring that to looking at the projections that we just had um because our state aid increase is 1 .3% total within the full Town budget Revenue projections um and Property 2 and a half prop you know our property tax revenues are this one's 3.5 if you ignore the debt exclusion um which is an in-out one um the town is also having to make up a lack of a a low state aid increase every year um compared to the level services that the town has um and in some sense I I guess I would just want to recognize that the school is not alone in what seems like to say it horribly a death spiral down where it becomes impossible to make up year after year state aid increases of 1% when colas are three or 4% on the backs of the property owners in town it it can't be done indefinitely not for the schools not for the town and I think that's why we have these hard conversations here because we do have extremely hard choices to make um and why I think I've always even though the the employees and Paul may not want it I want to I've always asked for more transparency on what the hard choices Paul has been making to show that it is not just the schools um and we're all struggling with that without and without State help frankly it will be and it is just as bad for the municipality as it is for the schools um because you just can't you can't do it with within our legal requirements without increasing the property taxes to levels that we just can't afford um I look forward to better more conversation about this though um because because I think we're we're potentially getting to the point where we're we have to have those conversations and and we're going to have to be very Frank about what those choices are thank you Austin so I again appreciate the opportunity do this and and really grateful that we can come together um I I'm just worried that we are wedded to a budget model that is not responding to what we are seeing in front of us what are we seeing in front of us I just heard it described I heard schools and problems in the schools and Roads and town departments that are starving or that are not being able to fulfill their aspirations um I'm not in favor of you know budgeting as the war of all against all but I wonder if we are doing the the right thing by the town where we say you get your two and a half percent others may need it more but you're going to get your two and a half percent um I just worry that we we're we say this year in out there all these unmet needs in the town and they're not getting any less unmet and they're not evenly distributed across the town so an a a budget model that evenly distributes the little bit that we have I don't know it just um I wonder whether it's um it's responding to the the needs which Perce I perceive to be uneven greater here and lesser there are there any other comments at this time we do need to approve we need to agree that the minutes reflect without a vote it's a it's not a um required if you will um so there are two sets of minutes in your packet uh I go by a rule that basically says even if you weren't at a meeting you can still vote some people don't feel comfortable doing that uh but are there any corrections to either of the February 16 or the April 5th minutes Austin you have your hand up probably left from before Nate I mean Nat I'm sorry Nat no I wasn't here for those meetings but also I didn't receive a packet so I will recuse myself not because I wasn't there there because I didn't see them okay the packet is posted on the town's website I'm sorry we didn't draw attention to that for all of you sorry yeah I looked for it I couldn't find it okay you go to the town's website you go to the calendar and in the calendar you click on the meeting that you're attending and as you click on it then you get a larger explanation which includes the agenda and at the very bottom it's says for materials related to the meeting click here and that is where the materials and the agendas are for meetings L yeah I should have done that before sorry about that yeah okay thank you we'll we we'll try to be much better about it in the future Paul you add your hand up I was gonna say say same thing astha just said we'll send you a link yeah yeah okay are there any object any changes to the minutes and if not they'll just stand as the record of the meeting okay I have a silly thing I was listed twice as an attendee in on one meeting minute I don't remember which one it is but it's it's really just a typo will you may you may have been extra that day maybe you may have been there in two different roles which you were working for a while how's that for sure Jennifer Le Fountain um there is a comment about the Dead the deadline for funding for the pension it has um Sandy and I responding that the deadline is 2036 but I believe it's 2032 so I just wanted to ask to have that corrected okay thank you are there any other changes people would think we should make any H you still have your hand up but that's probably because you were there in three different roles at one point um so are there any concluding comments at this time besides the fact that we should keep meeting and keep talking then I'm going to take a motion to adjourn I I make a motion do I have a second second thank you um we'll now just say I if you agree with that and after that we adjourn so I'll start with Andy Steinberg he put his hand up uh natl no I okay Nat Larson I Austin sett I Bridget Hines I councelor Lord I Ser roads I councelor hanii hi and I'm an I thank you we this was a very good discussion thanks