we're recording please go ahead thank you good evening it's April 1st 2024 and this is no joke okay thank you that's the last joke for the night uh this is a regular meeting of the Town Council the open meeting law allows us to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the council physically present at a meeting location while providing the public with adequate alternative access to the meeting this meeting is accessible in real time by by Zoom by phone and as a live broadcast on Amis media channel 9 and live stream in fact there are 10 counselors in the town room at this time I mentioned that specifically because I've gotten some comments that said when are you going to go back in person and we've actually been back in person since the beginning of January 2020 3 um so uh given that we have a quorum of the council present I'm calling the April 1 2024 regular Town council meeting to order at 6:32 I'll call upon each councelor please unmute your mic St present that means we can hear you and you can hear us and when we're done make sure you mute your mic again Patti Angelus present Anna dein gothier present councelor etto present L gmer is present councelor hanii present Bob hegner present councelor Lord present Pam Rooney here councelor Ryan present Kathy Shane I'm here and Andy Steinberg present Jennifer to present and councelor Walker here we are all present this evening um there is no chat room for the meeting if you have technical issues please let Athena and me know to make a comment use the raised hand button if technical difficulties arise as a result to utilizing technology Athena and I will decide how to address the situation including the possibility of having to suspend the meeting until we get the technology working again um there will be a gen one general public comment period at this meeting immediately following the announcements the order of the agenda is the same as posted uh I want to call attention to three meetings coming up April 8th again one week from today we have a regular Town council meeting April 25th which is a Monday at 6:30 we will have a public hearing on the regional school budget that will be virtual on April 29th if needed we will have a special Town council meeting anyone wishing to speak we're getting ready for general public comment I'm going to wait for the audience to enter while they're doing that if you're on zoom and you would like to make public comment please raise your hand at this time I will not to worry anyone wishing to speak who is in the town room if you have not signed up please do so with Athena o'keef at this time at this time I also would like to remind those people who have brought signs into the room it is fine that you have signs but you may not not hold them up in a manner that obstructs other people's view we're waiting for people to finish signing up for public comment for those of you that are not in the room e e e Athena how many people have signed up that are in the room 14 14 thank you and uh there are six people who have rais their hands they're on Zoom um public comments are a matter within the jurisdiction of the Town Council residents are welcome to express their views in this case we're going to go for up to 2 minutes the council will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during general public comment public comments are not reflective of the opinions of the Town Council the First Amendment broadly protects individual rights to address the government to speak and to express themselves including their rights to say hateful and unfortunately offensive things I am generally unable to shut those commenters down under the First Amendment to the US Constitution unless their level of speech Falls within an ex exception articulated by the courts such as fighting words true threats to a particular individual harassment of a particular individual or incitement of eminent Lawless activity if a question exists as to whether a particular speak speaker is engaging in unprotected speech I must defer to the principles of freedom of speech we recognize speakers in the order in which they have signed up rotating uh between zoom and person let's start with in person in the room did you say two minutes or three minutes two two thank you first is Deb Leonard please come up state your name and where you live before you begin your comment hi uh my name is Deb Leonard I'm a resident of ammer like to make it clear that I'm speaking tonight to share my own personal thoughts I do not speak to represent any other committee or um group of people I I'm part of so um I'm I'm just going to really try to stick to eye statement um and I'm I'm just looking for the opportunity to make informed decisions about the uh the policies and the budget that I'm facing as a voting member so um I don't it's my third month on the job and I just have more questions than answers um the the the budget that um the budget that we had ini considered voting um had a lot of questions that I had that I didn't have the time to answer so I just wanted to share some of my thoughts regarding those I know I don't have a lot of time um I'm just going to run down the line um I want to know what the implications of cutting department head time release time is in terms of our ability to support um the various initiatives that the depart department heads do during that release time I want to know if 0.5 FTE are hard to fill how how does that look in terms of filling fractional positions in the Middle School well that's about it um I so let me just make Deb please submit your comments to us in writing you can send it either to the Town Council through our general email address which which is Town Council at ma.gov or through the general public comment okay okay okay I guess in some I'm just asking for time to make proactive decisions rather than reactive ones and I don't feel I've been able to do that thank you okay uh we're going to go to zoom uh the first person is Ian or Ian Rod wel I apologize for mispronouncing your name I think I've done that before for umad can you hear me yes we can um my name is Ian rwal I'm the organizer for the western Mass area labor Federation a coalition of more than 60 public and private sector unions um including the ammer pelum Education Association uh I wanted to from my remarks tonight highlight two sentences from the town council's uh June 13 2022 resolution in support of the fair share Amendment and that is whereas all children deserve equal access to a high quality well-rounded and well staffed public education with a rich and varied academic curriculum ample opportunity to explore the Arts and Athletics and social emotional resources to support their overall well-being and whereas school districts across the Commonwealth have uh been forced to cut Central programs due to budget shortfalls resulting from years of inadequate levels of State funding for public schools um so those are the the two sentences I wanted to highlight from that resolution um I urge the Town Council to Advocate with the legislatures for any Chapter 70 increases that may be needed to fully fund the school budget and fight for what is needed by apaa teachers uh W with the recognition that this may require an override please find the funds so that cuts are not made to uh the budget and cuts are not made to uh teachers thank you thank you for your comment back to the audience Athena Amala fani please state your name and where you live before you begin your comment thank you um yes hello uh my name is uh akmad esfahani I actually live in Greenfield I'll be very brief uh I'm here mainly for the minutes uh to inform the town of uh Amherst that uh I'm seeking nomination signatures to run in the upcoming primary for district 2 uh for the Congressional uh congressional election as a Republican and I just wanted to notify the town and it being the minutes that's okay thank you thank you for your comments going back to um Zoom uh Meg Gage please enter the room state your name and where you live hi everyone this is med Gage I live at 208 mue Road in north ammer um my comments are a little unusual now that I'm hearing what this meeting is about but I'm here to uh support the CPA proposal for the Mill River history Trail project um it's incredibly exciting Community organizing project we made really good use of the first CPA grant that we got two years ago $12,900 and a 200 Page report um covering the four initial historical sites the two Roberts Mills the one uh just west and one just east of the Francis Bridge the kishman clam club which was a men's club that had a lot of exciting family dramas we found out and the mill uh Canal that went from it goes along the whole uh north side of the park there was a huge amount of Industry that's gone on in North Hammer but there was also a lot of indigenous activity and we've discovered that um an indigenous probably nipm Trail a major trading Trail went right along pretty much where the river is and we're reaching out to people from that um Community to help with this project the current proposal is stage two which will look at 15 additional sites um and it will also launch greater Outreach to the broader Community website development and addition as I said Outreach to targeted um constituencies like high school students and so on some of the aspects of this stage are not sponsored by the historic preservation guidelines of the CPS and to that to support those activities like website design and Community organizing we've we're doing additional fundraising we've raised $10,000 of which 5,000 is a match and toward that we've raised a th000 so that additional 15,000 will help us um with those activities if any anybody should be interested let me know um and also if you'd like a copy of the report of the first research I can email you the link most of these sites on conservation land and we're working really closely with the conservation staff and actually have invited them to appoint someone to join our planning committee um I'm going to skip some of what I had here sites not on the conservation land include the north amoris Library where there used to be the where the addition was just built there used to be a blacksmith and uh Katherine Striker noticed as they were digging the foundation these horseshoes were coming up out of the dirt and she pulled them out and through an agreement with the town and write Builders they've been saved and and we're hoping to have an exhibit my time is just about up um there's a whole bunch of other sites the factory housing on Summer Street and so on thank you Meg okay one last can I say one sentence this is in the spirit of community archaeology which is about engaging the community not just experts commun better at preserving historical things than experts in government thank you bye thank you back to the audience Tom Irwin my name is Tom Irwin I live at 54 Central AB in Dalton Massachusetts I appreciate this opportunity to com comment about the paint stewardship legislation presently before the house Ways and Means Committee while a member of the Dalton waste management recycling committee where we were facing the the same daunting waste crisis that amers faces rapidly increasing hauling costs and dipping fees and we were looking for a solution after a careful study of ways to address this issue paint stewardship seemed like the perfect first step and after confirming it was working well in the eyes of residents and retailers in Vermont New York and Connecticut I became an advocate for this law paint stewardship is a program where unwanted paint can be returned to any participating paint retail store transfer station whenever they're open without a disposal cost and without regard to where the paint was purchased the cost to Consumers is simply 75 cents to a dollar fee per gallon of paint at the time of purchase 80% of collected latex can be reprocessed to original specs and sold at 50% of the original cost relieving our waste burden the benefits amher will see at first that is going to be a service amher residence will Val this is quickly apparent by noting that 92% of 735 Mass residents dropping off by items at household hazardous waste St events signed petition asking their legislator to become co-sponsors this suggests that 92% of amers residents with unwanted paint and likely there are many would support this bill and second it will present no cost to municipalities and will decrease household hazardous way stay costs although 28 reps and 12 Senators including representative Dom and Senator cumerford sponsor or co-sponsor this bill significant Municipal support through resolutions is critical to compel serious consideration by the Ways and Means Committee to take this matter up view it favorably and send it to the floor of the legislature for a vote hence I respectfully request the amhar Town Council put paint stewardship on an upcoming agenda to make possible adding their valued endorsement of paint stewardship through passing a supportive resolution thank you for your comments you all have it thank you uh we're going back to zoom Tony Cunningham please enter the room state your name and where you live hi this is Tony Cunningham um district one I am the parent of two children in the ammer public schools one in 8th grade at the middle school and one in fifth grade at Wildwood and I'm speaking in favor of the Town funding the fiscal year 2025 budget that was recommended by the regional school committee a large part of this ask is for costs that are out of the control of the school committee for example employee health insurance has increased by almost 10% this year representing a approximately $150,000 over and above the 4% allowance from the town utilities have gone up 22% since FY 23 an increase of $126,000 Transportation cost too has increased significantly our children's education should not suffer to cover these types of cost increases our students access to foreign language instruction in middle school should not be on the chopping block restorative justice programs should be preserved many of the proposed Cuts would likely result in further enrollment decline in our school district further exasperating budget challenges the decision to dedicate 10 a half% of property tax receipts to pay for capital projects is squeezing operating budgets and will have long-term lasting impacts on our school system I would also note that the amount of additional funding being requested by the Regional Schools is similar to the amount you agreed to pay in interest on the temporary borrowings the bond anticipation notes to Front The Jones Library share of the Expansion Project over and above the town share project please find the funds to cover these costs so we do not have to lose teachers to pay for it we cannot afford to lose more students to Charter in private schools we need to remain competitive thank you thank you for your comments uh next Athena Amber Keno Martin hi everybody um my name is ambero Martin and I'm an ammer resident I live in District 2 um I have two children in the ammer public schools um I'm here tonight a little congested um to talk to you about the school budget so a couple weeks ago the regional school committee um restored about 15 positions um teaching positions to the Regional Schools budget that otherwise would have been lost um based on the superintendent so super attendance uh proposed budget um so these Cuts were going to come from things like the world language program in the Middle School um the restorative justice coordinator at the high school someone who's really highly trusted and good at working with students and families and um really helps out some of the most vulnerable kids in our district um par Educators who who help um kids who have uh special education needs so we were basically cunning from some of the most vulnerable in order to balance the budget um and I think it was clear to a lot of us there to the Union to the parents to everyone um that this budget proposal was totally unacceptable um you can't run a school that way you know you can't take the money away from the the people that are actually working with the students right like the direct support staff that works with students is the absolute worst way to balance a budget um and I'm so happy that the regional school committee did its job and went ahead and restored those teaching positions um even though that leaves us about $800,000 that we need to make up the Gap um I believe that it's worth it and if we want to live up to our values around education and the importance of public schools and public education we need you all to find the funds to cover that Gap it's really really important and crucial people come to this town for the schools I bought my house here for the schools I'm sure many parents did um and you guys do have the money like Tony mentioned the capital budget and and how that's squeezing um our operating budgets this can't continue I don't have children in the middle school yet but I'm not sure what's going to be left for them do thank you thank you thank you for your comments uh Nina M please enter the room state your name and where you live hi my name is Nina manin and uh I live at 91 Summer Street in North amorist I have a child who's in sixth grade at Wildwood and I'm also writing about or calling in zooming in about um about the the budget our family has lived in ammer for nearly six decades and in that time we've witnessed our school district go from one of the best in the state to its current state as average in the state a a little above average and I'm deeply grateful for all of your work I know how hard it is to do this job um most of you are volunteers and those in town who are also who are working in a paid capacity have to balance budgets I understand this but I I question um the current ethos that I see in our community and that I also see in our country that thinks that average is acceptable um and average is less and less impressive and when I say that I very much hope I'm not heard as talking about privileged people but about all of our our our students that Excellence must be um exhibited on all levels of our education system and that that is our uh not only our our value system but our highest goal so above all I'm asking you not to accept the status quo um and to move Heaven and Earth to show our children that we hold to a value of giving them everything that we can um and I also ask you to look at the savings you're going to see we're going to see from these new schools um in ways that other people have talked about the costs costing us now and to bring some of those savings forward by tapping into our Reserve funds thank you so much for all your time thank you for your comments Nina back to the room algra Clark hi my name is algra Clark I'm a resident of District 2 I am a parent of a Wildwood student I'm a graduate of ammer high school and I graduated in 2003 when we were number two in the state um so I have fond memories of the school I also moved back here because of the school system when my child was born I knew that this was a great place to raise a family so we came back here um so I I think this is the first time I've been in front of the Town Council asking to approve the budget that the regional school committee is putting forward to you because it's one that does not include devastating cuts it in fact restores the cuts that were proposed so I think that we need to be bold and brave and we need to find the funds um I think there's reserves could be a possibility especially if some of the planned um um Energy savings at the new elementary school will come forward hopefully they could be replenished in some way um I know there are arpa funds and there was a presentation at the last Town council meeting about how they are possibly going to be used but I think that in terms of child mental health that is a big byproduct of the pandemic and seeing the restorative justice coordinator positions be cut really would have a NE impact on students and their mental health um if you look at the tape of the last school committee meeting um they there were some students that spoke about the importance of that program to them um so I think that's important that the youth themselves have identified that as a really important thing in the school and so and a really important person to them in the school who's also an ammer Alum so I think I think that we have some possibilities for funding and we should take them because our students deserve it thank you legra um Deborah Ferrera please enter the room state your name and where you live hello can you hear me we can okay great um so I'm Deborah Ferrera I'm not gonna say my address because you know even though I'm all about First Amendment but um I've heard some of the hateful things that others have said in the past um at these meetings and so I'm very afraid to to say my address but anyway um I'm I'm uh co-chair on the community safety and social justice uh committee but today my the opinions are my own I'm a parent I have a um a child in the middle school and then my oldest son went through uh the public school system and as the other uh folks who have already talked about the the the the school system um you know I want to also talk about that I'm calling to ask that the Town Council fully F fund the amount that our school committee is asking for in order to avoid the cuts to teaching positions if the cuts go through our most vulnerable students will be impacted which include bipox students special education students um students who need the mental health uh support in our schools our language programs and many more marginalized student populations that these teachers serve um I'm hoping that you all see the importance of this and and won't let that happen if the funding does not go through one of the positions being proposed to be cut as the restorative justice position that is held by a black male teacher who is doing an excellent and I say that again excellent job as well as it serves to educate our students with different ways to approach resolving problems as opposed to punishment this position stems the adverse effects of discipline on bipox students hope you do the right thing like the school committee did because they heard us and I hope hope you all hear us today and all subsequent days because we're going to continue to to let you all know how much this is important and send a message to all our children that they matter and second I just want to urge the town manager to disperse the OPA funds fairly by including a dispersment to the black Business Association of amoris area thank you for your comments thank you back to the room L McGee good evening I'm here to support the uh Regional school committee and um requesting that you um put the money back into the school budget when we look into the future 10 to 20 years from now what do we want to see do we want Highly Educated residents exceptional public schools and a thriv Community beneficiaries of the education provided because we value our schools now or will another picture be painted plummeting property values reduction in high school graduation residents trying to get by not academ not academically strong enough to attend University not being able to get the skills they need to get to the next level will we see a floundering Community suffering from the decisions that we make right now our future is in our youth we must invest invest in them and they'll show a return to our community the Regional School strategic plan has committed the district also to Greater diversity and dismantling white supremacy we cannot continue this work without the with the Deep budget cuts for our last hired they will also be our first fired and we know those are our educators of color our staff of color do we value our students if so let's give them the education they deserve I believe we are oblig to provide our students with an education a well-rounded education that means we keep World Language the Arts restorative practices counseling special education services everything they need because we love them and want them to thrive we want this community to thrive these Cuts won't heal easily thank you thank you for your comments um Pat un unaku please enter the room state your name and where you live good evening can people hear me we can Pat my name is Pat ananbo District 2 uh the chair for black Business Association of amest area I am speaking on behalf of my group so I was cruising the um our town website couple of days ago and um how ironic that our town has launched kindness campaign but our town manager Town Council finance committee have not shown kindness and empathy to my group bbaa regarding Apper funds distribution I want to remind the town manager regarding his conversation with representative Jim mcgaven in July of 2023 rep McGovern made a phone call to our town manager at the request of my group members after he met with my group at my place of business in Hardley and rep May govern go back to me and said that he has spoken to the town manager urging him to allocate some of the upper funds to black business businesses so I just want to say this publicly and it has not happened we will keep continue to Advocate even if it it involves protests we're not going anywhere I want to conclude by supporting what everybody else has said about school budget you can find the money reduce police budget use some of the upper funds please conclude your comments Ella stalker hello my name is Ella stalker I'm a resident of Northampton and I'm the librarian at emmer Regional High School whatever comments I do not finish my colleague Amy colan will pick up when she speaks next last month the department heads of which I am one at emis Regional High School were asked to speak to the regional school committee about how budget cuts would impact current and future students at the high school we are grateful for the advocacy of our school committee in passing a higher budget that would prevent these initially proposed Cuts but we want to make sure that you are aware of how those cuts would have impacted us or will impact us if you do not the appropriate funds for our schools these Cuts impact our individual departments in specific ways but all of our work is fundamentally interconnected Collective cuts across departments diminish the culture and spirit of the school in ways that are hard to quantify but no less essential we know as experienced Educators that these changes put students who struggle at greater risk imperil our ability to provide enrichments for our most academically Advanced students and widen the cracks for students who are on the bubble by removing effective interventions among the proposals put forward was the option to significantly reduce the overall amount of release time for department heads this limits the amount of time available for writing and managing significant grants managing staff and special programs developing curriculum all while increasing teaching loads this also impacts other teachers because when teachers in and department heads increase their teaching loads other teachers are bumped into part-time positions it is very difficult to retain the same level of experience and exceptional teachers for faculty who are qualified to teach full time elsewhere but can only read a part-time position in ammer indeed there are current open positions that have been open all year at the high school Staffing reductions are also proposed in guidance at a time when student mental health and emotional needs have never been higher the lower budget would also reduce eliminate or fundamentally fundamentally alter successful interventions such as the restorative justice program or Prep Academy these programs ensure that we can meet the needs of vulnerable students history has shown us when we cut tier 2 interventions increased class sizes and reduce I'll conclude right now um these result in higher cost to the districts over time when students end up needing and qualifying for special ed thank you Amy colan good evening my name is Amy cman I'm a speech language pathologist at the high school I'm a parent of an Alum of ammer high and also a 10th grader um and I forget if I mentioned I live in ammer lived here for many years um so let's begin all departments are impacted by proposed cuts of two FTE positions in special education I'm a speech language pathologist so those are my students and my colleagues as well as par educator positions particularly through the reduction or elimination of kotch courses these courses pair a special education teacher with a general education teacher enabling more students to access general education classes and inclusion the law of these courses when combined with larger class sizes will reduce the accessibility and availability of both introductory and advanced courses there are also wholesale cuts to programs at the middle school that will dramatically impact how courses are sequenced and taught at the high school most especially in performing arts dance and World Language through the gutting of the Middle School language and dance programs the retirement of the computer science teacher at the high school will also illuminate computer computer science classes at the high school in this era these Cuts reduce the attractiveness and competitiveness of the town of amorist against our peer communities and charter schools and limit our students opportunities to express themselves and discover their passions we retain students in our district from leaving for Charter or private schools because of the depth and quality of our electives and the variety of offerings in our Core Curriculum the cuts across elective departments in languages core subject areas in guidance or in in interventions in co- teing in departmental leadership all these are devastating on their own collectively they are catastrophic we love our students our colleagues and the communities we serve it's exhausting that on top of doing our job year after year we also have to fight for a budget that we fully or even adequately provide them with a kind of schools they deserve thank you for your comments thank you thank you for your hard work thanks Michelle Prindle please good evening I'm a resident of South amorist I have three children in the public schools I have one child who is on the autism spectrum receiving special education services through our schools and I'm here to ask you to approve the school budget today I want to make clear to you the situation at the middle school our eldest child is an eighth grader at the amoris middle school the current physical state of the middle school is unacceptable last fall a high volume rainstorm caused ceiling tiles to collapse in six academic classrooms rendering them unsafe for learning our son is a musician in the school's Orchestra and choir in January on the eve of the 8th grade concert another rainstorm caused water to accumulate above the ceiling of the auditorium black sludgy water filled flooded the auditorium from the ceiling and from beneath the stage the students who who had remained after school for pizza and a pre-concert rehearsal found themselves Assisting School custodians in mopping the disgusting black water from the floors before guests could enter the auditorium on March 23rd our two younger children performed in Lion King Jr with starlight's youth theater an ice and rainstorm overnight and on the morning of the 23rd again caused flooding and water to rain down from the ceiling of the auditorium during both performances my parents and in-laws from Connecticut were in attendance and they were shocked at the condition of our Middle School auditorium this is a venue that is unsuitable for children to be learning and performing in I have pictures here to show you about the state of the auditorium during those performances and this is not the only example of schools in our town being unfit for learning in a town such as amorist which pledges to Value the education value education equity and diversity it is an absolute embarrassment that our schools are in such failing condition and yet funding costs um are continually proposed funding Cuts I urge you to find the money to fully fund the town and the regional district school budget it is also your responsibility to engage UMass and Amar College to make real meaningful Financial contributions to this town our students deserve better and it is your job to do better for them thank you for your time this is just a picture so you can see what it looked like while people were visiting next isch next to the lights that water was pouring down from in the auditorium at the middle of school thank you your time is up Kathleen Mitchell hi good evening my name is Kathleen Mitchell I'm a resident of um District Five in South ammer and have two children in the ammer schools um who will enter the Middle School in the next two years I'm here tonight to ask the Town Council to prioritize our children by fully funding the Regional Schools budget and I want to speak specifically about two programs at Arms if forced to make to the world language program middle school students would get insufficient hours of instruction to move beyond the beginner level and would have to start their chosen language all over again in nth grade there would be little chance of reaching the AP level in a world language this would be an unfortunate outcome for a community that has demonstrated its belief in the value of language acquisition and diversity by supporting a bilingual program at the elementary level if the regional school's budget is not fully funded the restorative justice program would be eliminated at a time time when we know that adolescent are struggling with social and emotional skills and need this type of support there has been so much talk in the community about how crucial it is that there is healing at arms and that the culture of the school improves but this will not happen by Magic as a community we either care about arms or we don't I think that if you choose to fund this budget you will find a significant amount of community support and many families and individuals willing to partner with you to roll up their sleeves and advocate for fun and think creatively about solving this ongoing problem I have often heard members of this Council talk about the importance of families in ammer of ensuring that our housing and Zoning makes it possible for families to live here but families also need thriving Public Schools not just at the elementary level in the form of a new building but also in the form of an adequately staffed highquality middle and high school many of you in various contexts have spoken about the value you place on our Public Schools you have men mentioned how your own families chose ammer or because of the quality of the schools or how your own children Thrive during their education here all we are asking is that our children have the same opportunity thank you thank you for your comments um I think it's May vente sorry I can't read your handwriting is it may Mari thank you yeah my name tends to throw people off my name is Mari Vicente and I'm a Spanish teacher at am Regional High School um and I want to tell you that the Cs in the language curriculum that were instituted at the middle school about 10 years ago cost us a little more than half a year in academic achievement for our students on top of that the pandemic cost close to a year another year um in academic achievement and the blog schedule is absolutely horrible for language teaching so the students that I have now in intermediate Spanish Spanish 3 are about a year and and a bit behind of where they used to be a few years ago um so it's become really difficult to prepare students for the advanced placement in Spanish which is one of the crowning jewels of the high school um and the curent proposed costs will even further delay um our students achievements in word language these CS translate into having the students the facto start their language careers at the high school instead of at the middle school um and that is also on top of uh we being the only country that starts language teaching as late as 12 years old just in time when the brain the part of the brain that deals with language starts to shrink it's still possible but it's not as what most countries do um so as a result of this extra even further Cuts kids would only have four years of their chosen language at that point it would definitely be impossible to achieve um uh the advanced placement course furthermore our district recently started dual language language program at Food River um how would this face with the Lang dual language program thank you please F the word language thank you Olivia blade hello my name is Olivia blae I'm a res president of Northampton and an ammer educator I teach Latin at the middle and one class at the high school and I'm here today to ask you to please support our school committee's ask and fully fund their budget our students love our classes speaking as a World Language teacher it's the high point of some of their days it's a chance for them to make choices in their education to learn about how to communicate with others how to share about themselves how to think about themselves as Citizens in the world to reduce their time when they are most eager enthusiastic and ready to soak up that knowledge would be a real shame a couple weeks ago at the regional school committee meeting many many members of the public came and advocated against gutting our program and the school committee listened and restored our positions in the budget I ask you to support our community and fund the budget thank you thank you for your comments William Ry hello everybody um my name is William Roundy I'm the department head of world languages at the high school um my colleagues have made great comments about what we're losing with the budget already so I'm just going to make a few separate points um the cuts if we cut deeply are not just extraneous programs that um feel like add-ons to some people for instance uh we're deeply cutting the high school science department um which is core academics um and even with the budget that the school committee passed were cutting pretty deeply um almost to the Bone we're losing central office positions custodial positions and other things that aren't directly um impacting students but are in impacting our building um pretty deeply um so what the school committee is asking for is I think what we should do um I don't think they are asking too much for a strong opening bargain bargaining position or anything um it's already pretty tough um the mood's pretty bad um in the schools right now um when we started talking about these budget cuts um I was pretty devastated and I'm a normally like pretty happy guy but I'd have to say I haven't been happy in about a month um and people don't show up in numbers like this unless you're really hitting a break point of some kind um to get this many people politically activated is really a sign that something is wrong um and I'd like you to really seriously consider what we're asking for thanks thank you for your comments Georgia Malcolm hello everyone you know I'm never at a loss for words but I'm so tired I just put my name down because I really wanted to acknowledge the school committee for advocating and putting the money back in I mean I really you know I was say to M back there I'm like I'm going to say the opposite don't approve it because what is what is it going to mean for you guys you know unfortunately this is statistics right the demographics of the schools are changing it's it's almost I mean in terms of when you combine all the people of color it's probably almost pretty close to white kids and I think without you guys even knowing it it's just some kind of you know it's kind of racism this kind of white supremacy and I'm not trying to insult anybody but it's just ingrained because I I go through it with my colleagues in the school system and you know you you're not seeing I think the school committee has a vision right cuz you're living in Emir you want to put up this 40 million Library you know yes we're going to cut the schools and we're kind of raising the flag saying hey you know everything is going to be not great and you guys really aren't paying attention and I say fine don't put the money in and see what happens in a couple year because ammer is going to be like this garbage pan it's white you painted pretty on the outside and on the inside it's filthy so I mean I'm not going to beg you you guys figure it out you were elected to do the right thing the school committee has done the right thing but I am just saying don't do it and see what happens thank you for your comments Irene L ro hi iina Ro I've been teaching at amoris Middle School since 2003 please support the school committee's budget with the wide variety of students each of our program meets different different needs the arms program is already operating under substandard conditions due to previous budget cuts in recent years the arms program has four core subject areas organized into teams with a special education teacher these core classes are heterogeneous with a wide variety of needs serving students on IEPs and 504s in an inclusion model the core subject classes have experienced a 20% increase in class size in the last few years as Core teaching positions have been cut these Cuts accompany changes in special educ ation support we no longer have general education par professionals assigned to each team who used to be able to provide support in those classes run result uh is that special education students who need support are moved then to one core class with one special ed teacher which tips the balance of that class to create de facto tracking the general education math and Ela classes in seventh grade are 30% IEPs and the general education social studes and science are over 40% High need students each part of our school program is integral in having a high quality education and meets the needs of complex Learners English language arts um elll counseling restorative justice World Language exploratories all of them are essential a student with a reduced experience in exploratory will struggle to engage in required core classes a student in an exploratory class who might have a conflict with another students may not be able to capably resolve that conflict without a restorative justice coordinator a student who has reduced World language classes will have a harder time accessing accepting their role as a global citizen which is a Hallmark of our social studies curriculum the connections are Limitless each part of the program is essential we help students build the skills and the content they need to understand themselves and their world a world that is connected diverse and interdependent please restore the budget that serves the whole child and our community thank you thank you for your comments patne up topsky good evening my name is Paton tbky I'm from Holio please move to the mic please I'm from Holio but I am a uh special ed math teacher at the middle school and before that I was a special ed par educator at Fort River for seven years um you have heard from much more eloquent uh in smarter colleagues than I so I'm going to keep it short um but we are holding it together with duct tape and bailing wire at the middle school um you are potentially considering a budget that will put the money back in for schools I think that's important right now you all have a choice to make because we don't get to decide uh but you can either take from and cut from our most vulnerable students uh or you can choose to build them up uh I know it's a hard decision we're doing a lesson right now on balancing equations but you all have to find the money somewhere else otherwise the other side of the equation is cut services and I don't know that we're going to make it if we cut more services I don't know that they're going to make it if we don't cut more if we keep cutting services so you know I hope you make the right choice um and thank you for your time thank you for joining us Beno Conor Vincent ' Conor 175 Summer Street I've distributed to the council a proposal for a refugee and Asylum applicant resettlement Commission in writing um and I look forward to meeting with the appropriate Committee of the council to discuss this matter on the matter before us as counselors you are operating in a political structure developed in medieval Europe to govern its illiterate Rabel we are not in Europe This is 2024 and your constituents are not illiterate rle in a prepared statement at at a previous meeting in March a counselor spoke of the need of of time for dialogue the dialogue this community needs between the council and its citizens and its school committee is not just listening for two minutes but engaging in real discussion at the finance committee not just having a presentation and then having people have to listen to people talk about things that maybe they have gotten wrong but the same thing should happen at your at your um April 24th or 25th public hearing I think it is ENT important for not only the substance of of understanding uh the appearance of understanding by listening but the substance of understanding by having dialogue at the finance committee and your public hearing um so that we so that whatever decision you make is a decision that your the public will feel is a informed decision as the result of dialogue between you and the school committee it's its professional staff people and the public thank you for your comment that's everyone on the register thank you that concludes public comment we're going to move on to the consent agenda after that we will be moving to a presentation about the regional school budget and some discussion as and a vote to refer it to the finance committee uh let me begin with the consent agenda it's pretty straightforward to move the following items in the printed motions there under and approve those items as a single unit 9 A1 approval of extension of temporary police chief appointment 11a adoption of March 4 2024 special Town council meeting minutes is there a sec um is there anybody that would like anything removed is there a second to the motion second thank you um we're going to move on to a vote I'll begin with Pat d'angelus hi Anna Devon gothier hi councilor I Lynn grimer is an i councelor hanak hi Bob hegner hi councelor Lord hi Pam Ro yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes thank you I just want to point out for a clarification purposes that the full this tonight we were approving the full set of minutes for March 4th when we held our meeting on the 13th we were only accepting the record of the meeting from the time from a certain time in the meeting to the end of the meeting you had your hand up Andy yes um I don't know if theena wants to uh report this but there was an amendment to the minutes made um at my request yes there was a correction on page three I corrected the error and reposted the minutes so the minutes that are in the packet now have been corrected okay thank you um we have no resolutions or proclamations tonight we have no presentation or discussion the reason that the Amis pelum Regional School budget appears under action items is because eventually it will be an action item um we are going to um begin with interim school superintendent Doug you can come in um good evening Dr slaughter um evening and we also then have comments from Regional school committee chair Sarah best Kenny and emmer school committee chair Sarah Marshall I do want to note that it both in the room and in the audience on Zoom are various members of the school committee as well of the regional school committee as well as the um uh Amor school committee thank you good evening um so I'm just going to take you through the budget a little bit and the process we went through to get to the budget that the school committee voted and and uh has uh submitted to the town for for uh approval so we go to the next slide please um so what we usually do is as part of our process is we make estimates for the coming fiscal year on what's called level Services which is to take um our best estimates of what we are doing currently and trying to project that forward into new new fiscal year um so for staff that involves uh steps and colas we project those for the coming year with the same level of FTE we look at our various expenses and the ones we know um we try to estimate what those will look like for the coming year uh and so with that uh estimate of level Services you know the budget would be 36,4 196,50 41 and that utilizes $500,000 in Esser funds and it's about 8.29% above the fiscal 24 budget um really the big things that are driving our cost increases from from uh the current year to next year are reduction the number of SRA funds available so current budget is being supported by over one .1 million and so uh a reduction of $500,000 of s funds uh will will have a 650,000 more than $650,000 uh decrease in funding that's supporting the budget um you know uh we're a people business uh most of our costs are driven by uh employees and and the benefits that they have and so that's a pretty significant impact on our our budget year-over-year um you know in the in the ballpark of um 80 85% of our costs are related to employees uh so when we have things like health insurance go up close to 10% it's a pretty significant uh you know expense in our in our budget uh and then you know the the inflation that's been persistent over the last couple of years is is continuing to to impact our budget in in a pretty significant way and so it it pushes those numbers higher and so we see that that large increase uh of just just under 8.3% overall um we use an alternative assessment method for the Regional Schools um just give you a quick background on that there's a statutory method any other method that that we use as a Regional School District is called an alternative assessment method uh we use an alternative assessment method uh we worked with the four towns in the in the Regional School District to try to come to uh an agreement about uh how we assess each of the towns their their portion of the cost uh the current method we have uses a 5-year rolling average of What's called the minimum local contribution uh as well as a 5-year average of of the student population um and then we have an additional sort of guard rail that we've been applying over the last couple years of 4% to sort of set the maximum amount that any given town could could increase or decrease in in a given year but if we look at that Revenue you know using that assessment method we've used the last couple of years um and other sources of revenue uh from Chapter 70 to Regional Transportation reimbursement to uh interest Etc um the gap between our level Services budget and our funding using that assessment method is is uh almost $1.7 million um and so you know we we set about uh you know trying to find what it was we could adjust or change or reduce from our budget in order to meet that number um and if you go to the next slide please um and so we create a uh aist as we see up on the screen now of of adjustments additions and reductions um to try to meet that number so the first section at the top of this is is our adjustments and some of these are you know refinements in in estimates for expenses uh from where we started so we start this process back in in November um we're making our best guesses is what we think our health insurance is going to cost us we make our adjustments to what we think are our uh support from from uh where cost for utilities are going to be etc etc um and and as we go through the process we try to refine those numbers and make adjustments accordingly there's several things you'll see on here where it shows a negative uh which is the parenthesis around the FTE and generally with that what we're doing is we are shifting the cost from appropriation uh type funding to revolving fund type funding there are are uh opportunities for Regional School District to have revolving funds to uh hold uh resources and and support certain programs there very specific rules about what revolving funds can or cannot be um funded with and and the purpose of the of those funds are very specifically defined but there are a few programs that we run that allow us to to um collect money and then use it to support the programs and so over the last couple years with Esra funding being available we've made a decided effort to to push and or retain I should say uh funds in our revolving accounts so that we have them available to us uh in in a year like this and so for example uh we you know if we take in students uh to some of our programs in special education we have a tuition revolving fund that we can that we collect uh those those tuitions from those other districts uh and then we use it to support the program so you have to with a revolving fund if it's allowed then you have to use it for the program that it's uh supporting and so in this case we're going to shift and and and put four staff uh onto that revolve fund and so it takes them off of our um of our appropriated funds and so it reduces the burden on on the towns to to meet that that expense with with uh assessed money um and as you see there are a couple other places where we we have uh shifts of custodial staff uh when people rent our facility we charge them for the use and uh then we use those funds to help support our custodial staff and then the last one is uh we have an intensive needs program again that one also collects tuition it's the same revolving fund is the one at the top there uh but both of those are able to support um some of the Staffing that's in in those programs and so those adjustments are ones we we make uh that don't although it looks like we're cutting 4.7 people we're actually shifting them off of the uh uh appropriated part of the of of the budget um so those are staff that are still going to work for us they're just going to get paid from a different resource than than our appropriated funds uh in the section under under budget reduction that's when we're actually taking things out and doing less things um and so you know there's a number of things we we looked at our Central Administration we're making some reductions there um we've got uh some smaller adjustments where we're taking out just some expenses to try to meet that number of of almost 1.7 million um we're reducing some of the professional development uh with the custodial staff the circumstance there is we added staff during the pandemic we're we're phasing into an area where we don't need as many staff uh as we've had and so we're able to to uh to reduce our staff in that area uh and then you get into the much more significant changes where we're we're really having to reduce uh significant number of Staff relative to uh trying to meet this this target of almost 1.7 million and you know when we do this process I I work with the administration in the buildings to go through and think about this and work you know we try to leverage uh retirements and and and um open positions and uh and also just you know what programming are are kids signing up for as far as classes and and what things aren't they signing up for and other ways to be efficient by virtue of trying to leverage our schedule to our advantage um and uh you know there's some some other restructuring of of how many departments we have so department heads have release time and so if if we have fewer departments that's fewer people getting release time to do Department support work um you know that does have an impact I mean all of these things have impact on on what we can and do offer to the kids uh there's some some changes in the the middle section there where it talks about our summer programming uh because of how we've shifted our schedule over the last few years there's opportunity to provide summer school in a little different way so again that that's an a change to how we'll probably do our summer uh support work and Credit Recovery type work there's opportunities during the school year for kids to make that up and so the need for summer school is much much less and so it's a much more sort of focused program that we're expecting to run this summer um but then you see uh the next section where we talk about Middle School changes um the class uh the clerical staff reduction is an addition we did this year to help out a little bit with the with the U uh changes to the middle school and the and the administrative structure we've got in place this year and then uh staff turnover is a is a generic sort of category that we we look at it's you know when we reduce the number of staff there are associated costs that go with staff like some of them have health insurance some of them don't some you know and so on there are other reductions just separate from just salary uh that we can can apply to the budget uh you know uh so in in speaking with the uh you know presenting the school committee getting public uh comment uh school committee tasked me with with uh you know adjusting this and not not making this level of reductions and and effectively you'll go to the next slide please um to uh essentially not have the teach impair professional positions uh reduced from the budget to do that it's about 15 staff a little over 15 staff or 941,618 million is about $750,000 or 747 896 to be overly precise there uh and so if we go to the next slide uh this is sort of what happens to the ads and C Cuts uh or or additions adjustments reductions that we have and so what I've done here is the exact same slide as earlier except the places where we had teaching staff or par professional staff we've zeroed those out and so those don't don't reduce our budget and that's where you get to a target of the 747 uh 896 in in reductions that we have to make now many of these are ones we would do regardless you know if we just don't have an expense or we can project that we don't have an expense uh like the reduction in our health insurance cost from our original estimate that sort of thing those are actual uh real changes we regardless we'd want to make that reduction in in what we're having in our budget uh because we just don't we're not going to incur that that expense because of the the reduction cost from what we were originally projecting but but nonetheless uh there's still pretty significant reductions in in other areas within the budget even with this uh modification from from a from a $1.7 million in cuts to $750,000 worth of cuts and so if we go to the next slide please so what you see on this slide um is is a uh summarized uh you know appropriation budget what we've done in the in the uh in the not the Shaded column all the way to the far right but in the the two columns uh just preceding that uh we have the proposed budget from piscal 25 that's that's where we started uh before we started doing you know sort of addictions reductions Etc uh and then in the adjusted we we've taken some of those we've taken those those reductions that are spelled out on the previous page and and applied them to the areas of the budget uh and and made the the adjustments in the budget and so what the school committee voted uh at their meeting on the 14th of of March was a was a a budget of 35,7 48,5 45 which is which is a little over 6% from the current year that's uh the total the bottom of the next to last column on the right there um that's just a little over $2 million of increase in in in cost from the current fiscal year and its estimates um so the next question is sort of well how do we pay for that what are our resources uh what what did we assume or what can we assume relative to that uh we go to the next slide please and so on this slide uh this this sort of lays out what we think our our our uh revenues look like for the coming year um so if you look at the blue columns in particular so the the sort of middle two columns that have a highlight to them uh in the in the I have to say the header on that says 100% stat stat is not truly 100% statutory method that's the it's vestigial from when we were transitioning to the method that we're using currently but but more importantly what you see there is is a level Services budget which is the 36 milon 496 441 which is the same one we started with the beginning of the presentation current currently we're projecting our Chapter 70 to be uh 9,793 627 um that increase of 78% from the current year uh I will say is actually um less than that in some respects so the chapter 7 number that's shown in the First Column there that says uh fiscal 24 uh is what we were projecting in what we voted what actually happened when the when the fiscal 24 budget was finalized at the state level our Chapter 70 number was a little bit higher than that uh and so the actual increase you know over the actual Revenue that we'll receive this year in Chapter 70 is less than 78% but but the thing to keep in mind is we've got a $36 million budget and we're trying to fund a pretty big chunk of it with Chapter 70 and when it goes up by less than 1% that puts a lot of pressure on our assessment methods and our other other sources of revenue to try to cover those costs um so as we look down through the the remainder of those revenues sources we get a transportation reimbursement because we're a Regional School District uh that has been uh over the last couple years strongly uh they've been improving the the reimbursement rate um we think that's going to kind of Hold Steady for this year our current year uh uh estimate for that is around the 950,000 mark uh our budgeted number for fiscal 24 was lower than that but I think our actual um uh projected uh reimbursement for the current year will be closer 950 and we're going to hold that steady for for fiscal 25 um Medicaid reimbursement about $120,000 we provide uh services that are eligible for Medicaid uh reimbursement so we do certain otpt speech services that are eligible for Medicaid and so we apply for that funding and we get that um about 120,000 a pretty typical amount from one year to the next it varies um Charter reimbursement that's our estimate of what we think we'll get for our brand new students that are in Charter so when a student goes to a charter Charter School um there's a there 's a reimbursement as you transition to owning that cost and so uh with the regional schools any seventh grader that's going to a charter school is in their first year relative to us and so we get about $300,000 in in Charter reimbursement that's our estimate of that what you don't see here but it's in the expense side of things is that the cost to us uh for those Charter students uh we we carry as a as a an expense line that numbers around $2 million roughly speaking so uh you know the real bment is a transitional funding source from the state to to ease you into covering that cost but uh Charter costs are are pretty significant out of our our resources um interest Revenue with interest rates being up uh and we have you know cash on hand for a variety of reasons and so uh 32,000 is kind of in the right neighborhood for what kind of Interest we earn in the course of a year um end which is uh you know the same as sort of reserves or or free cash and and uh and stabilization for um municipality um we generally budget 280,000 as a contingency we try not to spend that in the course of a fiscal year we hold that as uh in case of emergency type of funding um but we do have uh additional funds available to us that we we do leverage from from one year to the next and so we've got $600,000 of of that funding budget and and the way we get end is the same way the town gets reserves in other words if you are you know when you finish your fiscal year if you're under budget that falls into the sort of Reser of category one one difference is that in a Regional School District uh there's a maximum amount that you can uh retain in in end and that's 5% of your operating budget so we have some obligation to to use those resources and not sort of stack them up and and hold them um so we're supposed to uh to spend that funding in in a timely way to to uh support our budgets and so we try to carry that that uh from one year to the next and use a little bit each year and and so when we finish under budget one year it helps support that andd for a subsequent year and and it it helps you know sort of smooth out our our funding picture a little bit from one year to the next but the totality of those other sources of funds besides assessments to the town it's a little over $12 million we subtract that from our 36496 441 and so the amount to be assessed to the four towns Falls in in the 24 million 42814 um and because of you know either no change in those estimates for Revenue or small changes in those estimates for Revenue that's why that increase from fiscal 24 to this year is is 11.62% so it's a pretty pretty big uh uh increase to cover the costs that that we're anticipating and so if we use the assessment method uh and and you know with the five-year rolling average of minimum local contribution and the remainder of that that uh amount to be assessed uh based on uh five-year rolling average of of of students uh this series of numbers the 19 milon 706 938 for for the town of amoris would be the the sort of full uh assessment you would have to bear in order to to hold us at level Services um and likewise you can see the impact on the other three towns um you know in in in the most recent years we've we've had a a set of guard rails of 4% as a maximum increase um and so as I started in the presentation to do that we would have to cut about 1. 7 million the regional school committee asked me to to restore the the the teaching and pair provision uh positions and so that that's a much smaller amount of reduction and so uh the guard rails of 4% were going to support that so essentially I I modified the guard rails in order to uh to meet that level of of reduction that we had had uh been able to identify that it did not involve um teaching and Pa professional POS positions so that just shy of $750,000 and so that creates an increase above the current year assessment of about 88.2% for every every one of the four towns uh and so that's a little more than double the increase from from what we spoke about in in February um but that is that is the budget that was was passed uh by the regional school committee on the 14th um the final slide and I'll I'll do this quickly just as a as a reference and so if you that last slide is is the capital uh projection so capital is another part of the budget um the regional school committee reduced the projected uh projects for the coming year and so the debt authorization that they went through was a much much smaller they took $300,000 out of that does it impact fiscal 25 but it would have an impact on fiscal 26 uh those numbers are not shown in this in the in the chart at the bottom of the page there where it has the assessment the fiscal 25 24 and 25 numbers are are accurate 26 and above not been modified relative to this smaller uh Capital project uh uh and debt authorization that was approved by the by the regional school committee so they they uh you were trying to be Forward Thinking and saying all right we're going to we're going to push out some of these projects they can we can hold off on those uh will take a little less debt on and and potentially have a positive impact on on uh some of the subsequent years of the capital planning uh from a financial uh request in in assessments so the assessments for Capital are in the column labeled fiscal 25 uh those have been consistent throughout the the the budget season um but I um did want to share those with you but but the larger conversation is probably much more about the the operating budget and and the assessments there and and the uh additions reductions Etc that that match with that uh so I think I'll stop there as I Blitz through that really quickly I'm sorry if I went too quickly and I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has uh this is very familiar to me and so I go through it relatively rapidly and I'm sorry if I've skimmed over something that wasn't familiar to anybody or or has uh provoke some questions I'm happy to answer anything so why don't you just stay right where you are and Sarah best why don't you come up this is Sarah Bess Kenny Sarah Bess is the chair of the regional school committee hi y okay uh so we asked Doug to go back through please yes thank you sorry um okay so our original budget that was presented which we dubbed the Tuesday budget in our meeting for clarity uh we reviewed and um many of the cuts that were proposed were student facing and greatly going to change the student experience um in in our schools and as a school committee our job is is to um approve a budget that you know supports our students the best we can uh and and honors our district Mission which includes you know high quality education Multicultural multiethnic and plisic societies and keeping our schools as healthy and robust as we can um and so we asked the business office to put back in the student facing positions uh we are still making cuts that still affect students um it still includes um two uh FTE from central office two janitorial staff and one clerical and then as uh Dr sler presented in the last slide we reduced our um Capital proposed capital projects okay all right um just take a moment and Sarah Marshall did you want to say a few words all right thank you I'm Sarah Marshall um member of the ammer and Regional School committees um my role as chair of the amorist commit uh school committee however doesn't give I'm just another member of the regional committee um all the speakers during the public comment part of this meeting were spoton and very articulate in outlining the damage that might be caused will be caused we'll see we hope will not be caused by the um cuts that would be needed to um limit the assessment increases to 4% but I'll give my written remarks education has long been a priority and economic driver for the emmer area a significant portion of the area population lives here specifically because of the educational offerings not only at the college and university level but at the elementary and secondary levels as well unfortunately the ability of the Regional Schools to offer the highquality programming that so many people demand and that our children surely deserve is threatened by inadequate funding cheaply at the state level as Dr slaughter just pointed out and after years of whittling away at programs and staff at administrators and classes we were faced this winter with a prospect of devastating cuts amounting to $1.6 million cuts that cannot be made without significant changes to student learning and staff responsibilities we implore you to fund the budget that we have submitted even though it will require significantly more funding than was offered at the fourtown meeting we know it's a big ask but parents students Educators and staff tell us loudly and clearly that a shrinking and mediocre program is unacceptable please also understand that our regional schools are in competition with private and charter schools and that more students will go elsewhere if they need to to get the language and music instruction the Arts the counseling the academic supports that are no longer available at the ammer middle or high schools and that they take significant taxpayer funds with them please strengthen and do not weaken our schools thank you thank you I think the three of you can just sit there in the hot seats okay um we're going to start with comments questions from the council I want to remind people that this is just the beginning of the conversation for this council with the regional school budget we have a hearing scheduled on the 25th at 6:30 it will be totally virtual it's a meeting of the finance committee that other members of the council may join in um with that uh and our vote tonight is to refer the budget to the finance committee where it will rest until they come back to the council with their recommendation and then as each of you knows um then it becomes a decision-making process across four municipalities and that involves three town meetings and Our Town Council so we're again just at the beginning of that process um so with that Kathy um go ahead I yeah I'm just going to focus on two elements that Doug went through quickly and I know this is more longterm but I'm also thinking we should be putting pressure on the state I just did a quick math if Chapter 70 had gone up by 4% rather than less than 1% it would be another roughly $400,000 um I can't understate what the charter formula is doing to devastate our schools and it's year after year we're sending a net dou showed the amount we get off the top but we're sending a net of over $20,000 for each of the 82 students that leave we only send 5,000 if they go to another Public District school if we sent 10,000 rather than five it would be the million you're asking for every year year after year so I think we need to um organize a uh with our state legislators a change in the formula but more immediately Chapter 70 we talked about the fair share Amendment very little of it went directly into school budgets a little bit went into some capital for K through 12 um we had a discussion about uh student debt at the college level but we're buying for the same pot of money and I think people really need to say that at the at the most basic level we need to protect K through 12 and in this case we're talking about Regional you know be because it's our kids so I just want to focus on those two because there's such big numbers you know on the ammer side I was looking at the amount more money um that it would be for ammer for we had 4% and this would be 8% so just calculating that and we can start to talk about that at the finance committee um it was pointed out by one public comment that we went up to 10.5 on the capital budget 10.5% that extra5 rather than 10 is about $400,000 you know so there's there's pieces of money that cause pain somewhere else there's not there's not a little pocket somewhere that that we can just dip into but it's it's um and and Sarah is on the joint Capital planning committee I mean taking a hard look at what needs to be spent it might mean we have to relook at our guidelines so I'll stop there rather than looking at some of the detail because I haven't had a chance to look at the underlying detail but our two kids uh went through the middle school and the high school and I have to tell you when they hit College they were so well prepared and beyond that they had this extremely diverse experience of friendships across all these different programs and I would just and they're 44 and 40 now so we're talking about a long time ago but but they look they they treasured the time in our Middle School in our high school for for what that experience brought to them and I as a counselor would like to have that continue to be an experience in ammer so thank you all very much okay Pam Rooney thank you um if if I were looking at the chart which is uh it says FY 2025 proposed budget and it has the payroll accounts and the expense Accounts at the top if maybe we could look at see that um a couple couple of basic questions um if someone would take the time to explain um how our amorist vote affects other towns first question second question is um does choice in payment for special ed uh it was mentioned a couple times that we get tuition for for special ed and we get tuition for regular Ed choice in does choice in for special ed tuition cover the actual cost of special ed education um when I look at when I look at the any of the proposed numbers the the um payroll accounts for special ed exceed that of regular education and I don't know how many students are supported in special ed as opposed to reg regular Ed um in expense accounts just the top oh five or six lines which is regular education special ed other programs student programs School administration Central Administration if someone could describe what expense accounts means it's it's in the realm of $5 million so it's really becoming real money it's um anyway that's the question what what does that consist of thank you Doug yes so I'll I'll I'll try to go through those so there's a couple of things um so there's school choice and then there's also tuition in so for when I was when I was speaking earlier about uh collecting tuitions from special education students those are are into our specific programs which is different than school choice it's an actual placement like we have uh there are a you know some students that we have that we don't have programming for for special education purposes and we uh uh will'll send those kids to what we call out of District placements uh we are receiving District in a similar way so when we when we uh charge for that uh we're trying to estimate when we we set up the the billing technically uh with them we're trying to charge for for what we're incurring separately school choice which is um you know we are school choice District we do accept school choice students the base amount for any student it's a school choice student so uh is is $5,000 if they have special education costs those are then calculated and and we do a process called school choice claims where we essentially build back the districts that send to us and so we do recover those costs uh one to one so so special education costs definitely uh in in both of those circumstances are are ones that are covered by uh by those sending districts um see if I can remember all the questions um so um shoot my train of thought U there was how how does the ammer vote affect the other towns so uh so the way it works is this and I'm going to this is going to get a little technical about how the budget process occurs um so there there really three parts to getting a regional budget pass there's a capital assessment that all four towns have to agree to um in the operating budget side of things there's really two pieces to that there is the assessment method itself and then there is the actual you know sort of numbers the operating budget itself and so both of those have to have to pass for uh the Regional Schools to have a budget because we use an alternative method all four towns must agree to that uh that alternative method for the budget to pass so we can have on the other hand on just the dollars and cents part of the operating budget three of the four have to pass it but with the assessment method because it's an alternative method all four must agree to it so if any one town rejects the assessment method uh we don't have a budget um uh and if two towns reject the sort of numeric part of the the budget that also uh would would have us not be uh able to have a budget for for the coming year so that's uh so each of the towns has a fair amount of power to to uh to reject a budget um by virtue of that um you'd ask a little bit about uh special education costs um so payroll Accounts at the top are all about salaries basically that's just all salaries up there expenses um are a variety of different things some of it's you know instructional Supply it's you know white board markers and workbooks and paper and and things of that sort but it's also things like some of the replacement equipment for Chromebooks or or technology that particular kids need and so in special education you might have an Adaptive type of of technology that someone needs that's in the expense accounts um sometimes it's for uh services that we need that we can't provide ourselves so sometimes we have to contract those out um if we have difficulty either hiring staff that we'd like to have we'll contract out services or if it's something specialized that we don't offer or we don't have or need it on a regular basis we'll often contract out uh for those services so it's a whole host of different things that fall into those categories um a little over you know probably in the 23 I don't know the number I thought my head exactly it used to be more closer to 20 but it's it's crept up a little bit in recent years number of you know the percentage of our students that that have uh special education needs is is about uh 23% or so it's it's not quite to 25% but it's it's gone up over the last two years um but special education services are often expensive and they're and they're largely compulsory in other words we when when an IEP or an individualized education plan gets written it's something that's agreed to between the district and the families uh relative to how best to meet their students needs uh so they can access the curriculum and so it is uh intended to be the least restrictive form to for those students to to access curriculum um uh but it often involves a variety of staff that provide a variety of services depending on the kid and what their needs are um and so that it's it's just on a base level it's more expensive than than kids that don't have ID just you know that it just requires a higher level of sophistication and Staffing to do that uh and sometimes equipment too I think I got hopefully I got all the different pieces you ask about okay Mandy Joe I'm sorry councelor haniki thank you um a couple of questions to hopefully take advantage of the fact that we have Sarah Bas Kenny our regional school committee chair here and two members of our regional school committee because I don't know whether they'll be at Finance or not um does the regional school committee intend that the FY 25 budget as they passed so The Higher One than what we had been looking at is do they intend it to be the base for the FY 26 budget and all future budgets or um would the original one that was 900,000 lower be the base in other words is this budget as past that increases um what the four towns were looking at by 900,000 a permanent increase in the budget by 900,000 or is this a one-year adjustment um I'm G to ask all my questions they're kind of all related um why did the regional school committee wait until April to relay their concerns to the four towns through passing a budget higher than what was discussed at any of the four towns meetings and guidance instead of making the case at either the January 4 towns meeting when we knew 20 positions would need to be cut um or calling an additional four towns meeting in February or March um what has the regional school committee done over the past three years to strategize for the fiscal cliff that we knew was coming and talked about um that is here in fy2 what what did you do to prepare for it um how did you talk about it um and related to that um of the level Services budget um the presentation indicated that 600,000 of this quote 1.7 million reduction or now8 million reduction is because there is $600,000 less in Esser budget support than there was in the current fiscal year budget um but Esser money wasn't was always known to not be permanent um so did you have a plan for the loss of that Sr money I noticed also that 500,000 in the fy2 budget is Sr money that will not be there at all next year um and where is the strategy for making up that loss too in coming years I can answer the first one so so the first question is around a one year or not uh you know if if we adopt the the budget as pass so it involves an assessment method of you know with guard rails of 8.2% that essentially sets the base because it is the base of assessment that that gets charged to the four communities so it would to my mind be the the basis of of of the budget for the coming fiscal 26 um you know if if that additional funding had been asked for in a different way uh than it potentially you know sort of external to the budget than it would be more of a one-time uh uh version so I would I would suggest it's it's a it's an adjustment to base thank you I would say um if I could add that we did discuss whether to um pass a a a budget with a lower base and ask for onetime extra money that wouldn't then be part of the next year's um base and that did not fly so I think it's pretty clearly was clear to me the intent of the committee to just build this right in FA best did you have a comment um you speak please speak to the mic uh okay so I so we have actually um after the four of our people have talked to our four towns and one of the things we have asked the business office to um create and present for us is a three-year look ahead we'll do exactly what you're asking about how will this look for our future um H and what were other question sorry one of my questions was about four towns meeting we knew these 20 Cuts positions were presented in Fe in January's four towns um why did you wait till April to tell the towns it was unacceptable instead of calling for towns meetings in February or March to discuss this uh I think we didn't know exactly what was going to end up being cut um and so that's that's why we I in addition in addition to the look ahead that we've asked the uh business office to to do for us one of the other things is we would like to have another four towns meeting so the four towns can come together and hopefully review the three-year look ahead and um you know have more discussions about how to not only manage for this year but also to manage for our future years there is a four towns meeting at this point uh the tentative date is the 20th of April um that does not answered the question it just places that piece of information out there uh councelor hanii did you have followup I guess three threeyear look ahead looks to the Future one of my questions was what in the last three years have you done to plan for the cliff that we're in now since we knew it was coming that might be more for Dr slaughter um as Finance or business what what whatever his title was before Acting Superintendent um Finance director essentially uh there's a few things we've done I mean you know certainly we knew that that that that this was coming and there's a certain uh you know limit to what what we can do I mean certainly uh I hinted at it a little bit a number of revolving funds uh We've we've intentionally um uh school choice being another one of those where we've allowed the the the funding to uh grow bit um in order to have a little more resource available over the next few years so our tuition account which we're using a little bit of this this uh next couple years the sort of adjustment section of of that uh adjustments uh reductions and ads uh you know we're starting to leverage those those resources that we've um uh I want to say stacked up but we stacked up over the last couple years so we used you know so there's a few things there that we've done and and and as you'll note from that um you know the the the idea being that we can sustain some of that support you know for example the the tuition you know support is going to is is for special education is about 125,000 if you take the sort of top and the bottom we think we can sustain that for a year or two and obviously that gives us more time uh you we're sort of spreading this out over a longer period of time uh to not make it as abrupt but nonetheless it's still a pretty abrupt change um to be honest in in the fiscal 24 budget it it was uh um you know we would have had to have have leveraged less uh uh Sr funds to in the current year to make next year not look quite so bad but then we'll also have you know as you noted um a $500,000 sort of difficulty to overcome when we we start to plan for fiscal 26 um so I think there's a few you know there's a few things we've looked at with regard to that we we you know we have limited um limited tools do that I think the you know there there will be some reductions that are coming it's a matter of when and how abruptly we do them and so um and I think that you know that's the other thing in looking at a three-year sort of forward projection is sort of see what what uh what kind of reductions we have what kind of reductions in in enrollment we have over those Next Period of years as well um and it it gets difficult to sustain the variety of programming we have uh if we have a continuingly A continuing decline in enrollment so that's it's there's going to be some trade-offs here we're going to have to make because you know we're currently at under fore students in the Middle School under nine under 900 students in our high school it's difficult to sustain the wide variety of things with uh with that few students and so do we start to look at more school choice do we look at other kinds of options uh as we move forward um and and I think that you know we we've as much as these are difficult conversations uh to to have relative to these these budgets I think there are there are other districts that are in in tougher shape than we are I mean not that that matters when we vote our budgets but I think that we've tried to to leverage the funds in a in a sort of sustained and tapering type of way and yet it's still a pretty significant sort of step down between each of these last few years uh to to mitigate that and and not everything that we've um had to put in place over the last few years is able to be removed just yet um I think we see some higher needs in in some aspects of our our uh our students that that require continued and additional support so it's difficult to make those reductions um in around sort of mental health supports and and the impact that has on on some of our special education needs and and that sort of thing so um we'll continue to have these difficult conversations uh I think over the next couple years because I think the there's no I I'm not aware of any sort of major shift in funding sources that that anyone's um I think there are ideas about what can happen What will or will not come to fruition over the next couple years going to be difficult to to to uh say with any certainty because I think there's a I think there are a large number of districts that are like our districts that are that are in this minimum age circumstance and when it's such a big chunk you know it the other way to look at it Council Shane mentioned this but I I looked at the funding level at you know uh it was 2014 versus now for Chapter 70 is a percentage of the budget it was like 31% of the budget well if it was still 31% of the budget we wouldn't have this conversation about a million dollars you know we just wouldn't um not that it was going to sustain or or has ever sustained it at an inflationary rate but nonetheless even if it was approximating that so this is sort of the reality of of the student Opportunity Act and we all voted for it I think the the resource that it's applying to districts like hoolo and Springfield and L and places like that uh are are well-placed resources but it it it puts a burden on on communities like ours to carry that uh for the rest of the Commonwealth so that's that's a piece of this too Andy Steinberg yeah excuse me I first one to acknowledge to the people who are still in the audience that were here before and spoke that um I appreciated all of your comments because it really does um put the context on a very difficult decision that ultimately has to be made but I it there are a number of troubling aspects that have been uh raised in the discussion that has taken place already um and part of it is that we're not alone there are 218 U men minimade districts in the Commonwealth including Regional and uh Town districts so it's a fairly large it's a large number there there's more that are minimum Aid districts than are um not is as far as I'm aware and uh so that uh the other thing that's happening tall of the districts is that everybody had Esser funds some used it differently than others everybody has their eser funds being um eliminated and it's happening at the same time that student Opportunity Act is being implemented which is where that minimum aid number comes from so there's a a lot of challenges that we face but there's one long-term challenge that U I think we also need to recognize and that is that even before this all happened um the inflation annually in school budgets was greater than the revenue increases that was available to districts um because districts ultimately rely strongly on property taxes which have a 2 and a half% cap and uh what the legislature can provide and uh in the best of years we were seeing 2 to 3% increases so that um when the school budgets were um continually going up and if you look back at what was happening each year there were small Cuts being made each year um and uh you know what I think is really tragic this year in addition to the cumulative small cuts that have happened over a great number of years is that you know now we're facing a cliff as opposed to you know just a Ste you know a hill it's this is really uh was making us look at a cliff so I I recognize all of those things and I've been working as you know with the Massachusetts Municipal Association to look to look into the fiscal policy issues but they're not easy solutions uh best we can do is to continue to work together to present to the legislature now the other thing that I want to turn to is the local side of it just to put it into context and why it's going to be a very difficult decision that this council is making as the other three towns are making these decisions at Town meetings where uh we we in ammer U have our Community will speak to us and then we will uh make the best decision that we possibly can but uh the amount of uh additional reduction that we're being asked to look at because of the um change in the budget from what was discussed at the for Town meetings gramar is about $740,000 and to give that7 $140,000 a little bit of context if we're going to do that by shifting from other expenditures that we envisioned for the budget and I'm not picking on this one program I'm going to mention because no decision has been made but it's greater than the entire budget of the crest Department uh by about $100,000 so I just want to give you a context what it means to ask us come with $740,000 somebody during public comment mentioned the possibility of taking it from reserves most of our reserves uh we've been setting aside for U capital projects that still remain to be built fire station which is long overview to be con to be built to serve um stop damaged and to replace a very anr station that is unhealthy for the community and unhealthy for the staff be working there in the Department of Public Works building which is one of the most affordable buildings that we ask sta working in the entire town so there are um consequences and then there's one other which is um Everybody um points out on a regular basis how deplorable our roads are and uh that's the other piece that has to be put into play and it could and there's no question that uh it's going to affect the amount of money that's available for all cap even roads so I uh just encourage through the um process that we um hear from the community point of order count councelor Steinberg would you please use your microphone you're you're not able to be I'm sorry I I lost it there I my finger fell off of it um the uh um I'll I'm just concluding now but what I was what I was saying is is that we really uh need to have our community understand the depth of the problem and the depth of and the cost of the solving the problem if we're going to come up with the money um and uh we're going to have to make that decision I assume that the other towns um in the region are having similar discussions going forward um it's going to be a tough one thank you Jennifer top um yeah pardon me I'm just thinking out loud but it's such a catch 22 I mean we know for amoris to remain a viable Community we need to sustain and expand our yearr round population especially of families with children to send to our schools and we need to maintain um a robust student body or keep a student body at a certain level in order to have a robust curriculum and have enrichment classes and if our schools aren't topnotch with that kind of um robust curriculum then we can't we're challenged to entice families to move here and pay our high taxes so um I mean it it seems I know this isn't going to help us for fiscal year 25 but long and short term that our colleges and University really need to step up and provide more support because our current economic model of only residential property taxes you know supporting the town is just not cutting it um I also just wanted to ask in terms of anticipating we knew that the you know Esser funds would be that they had a lifespan but are you finding that the academic setback and other kind of Fallout from the pandemic and students not being in person in school for almost two years that the Fallout from that is exceeding the lifespan of the Sesser funds so it's hard to cut back when you need to still make up for that can please speak into the mic yes thank you um George yeah um I don't know if you can answer this right now maybe this is something that'll come to fincom but I would be two questions I'd be curious to know how much of Esther money was spent for one time expenses as opposed to recurrent costs um I'd really like to know what I think that's going to be an answer down the road right and I mentioned that because there's a town right next to us that's going through the same process we are and they're not having a fiscal cliff and that's because they spent all the eser money on one-time costs I was thinking of that leaking roof that was mentioned earlier um maybe anyway so I'm just curious how much of the SRA money was spent on recurring costs how much was spent on onetime costs the other has to do with the impact of the the new contracts I just be curious how much of the gap Gap is reflected in the new contracts that have been then signed I assume that had a substantial impact I just don't know so I'm curious I can answer that second one a little bit um so uh there a couple pieces to this puzzle one thing I would broadly suggest and as we as we head to the four towns meeting I'll we'll get into this a little bit more but as an organization we've gotten younger um so most of our contracts uh certainly all of our Union contract s have uh are structured with u various Lanes uh so depending on in the teacher contract it's education level but in others it depends on on the type of work you do um and we have steps um and so you know when you come to Workforce you get placed on a on a given Lane and step and then over time uh you you know you get a step plus a cola but then at some point you get to the top of the scale and you just get a cola so when I first started working for the district mean years ago we were about 70% of the staff were at the top step or close to 70% of the staff that's a much lower percentage now which puts a lot more inflationary pressure from one year to the next so the raw dollars are less but you have a step and a cola for a a larger number of staff so that's one piece that plays into just generally speaking regardless of what the cola is or anything else we've just gotten younger as an organization and most organizations have um particular with the pandemic I think everybody shifted a little bit younger in and I say younger not necessarily you know age but younger in their career with us relative to the to the grades and steps so that's one piece um so the um the second thing is uh you know sort of what you negotiate for a cost of living increase so you know uh a percentage Point makes a big difference um but maybe not as much as you might think it would um so if if we were to say um broadly speaking if uh most of the most of our Union uh agreements had a 3% Cola for the current uh for fiscal 25 not all of them some of them are in negotiations now but broadly speaking if we take those that had that sort of 3% if it was Zero um at the Regional Schools that's about a half a million dollars uh a percentage point is in the 150 160 range um generally speaking is a broad metric of of that and yet you know um the counter to that is those were fully you know uh fairly negotiated contracts and so we had to come to an agreement um uh and and you know inflationary pressures are are real so would we have you know when when when we talk about health insurance going up 99.74% this year yeah the district has their cost go up 9.74 but all the employees that pay their their piece of that also has that go up 9.74 um so you know they're hit they're getting hit with some of those same costs we are and that's not to diminish the impact but but it is you know it is a factor I think that the fact that we've gotten younger is is putting a little more inflationary pressure on our our budgets year-over-year um uh and that's the nature of having contracts that have you know sort of steps and and colis as a part of how how they're structured um but I think a lot of districts are in the same boat as we are because you know Baby Boomers are retiring or have retired um that's sort of tapering to the end um and so you know new staff are coming in and are not at the the very top of the of the uh of the salary scale the other thing you have and it's not as much a factor in say our our teaching category but some of our other contracts you know with the minimum wage going to $15 you get some compression between the bottom and top of of the of the salary scale um but it does tend to put you know pressure on the entirety of the scale to to move everyone's salary up as well so those are all you know pieces of the puzzle uh no real you know sort of straight line connections between some of them but at the same time they're they're there and they are uh you know they are factors in in in influencing our our labor costs and since we are so labor intensive uh as far as our costs are concerned um anytime those things Impact labor it's a much more profound impact on our overall budgets and back to the question on uh how much for onetime things versus ongoing things uh we had a mix um you know we did some one-time funding there were sometimes there were some positions we funded for for a short period and we tapered those out of our budget there's some things we've been we've been supporting and we thought we would be tapering more of them out and we haven't been able to yet so it's it's kind of a mix would be the the sort of broad answer at this point um I can look more closely at the at the spefic specifics of that um there are some things that we definitely bought that were one onetime sort of things um uh leveraging the SR funds for Capital expenses was a bit involved you couldn't um it do uh a fair amount of of U effort to allow it to be used for Capital expense so it had to be kind of a careful structuring there so we didn't do as much of that U as much as we have Capital needs as as you know you've probably seen in in some of our documentation and given the ages of our buildings but but uh it was it it was an non straightforward process to do very much in in the in in the realm of capital with eer funds um I'm concerned about how I heard you talk about revolving funds uh so you built them up in over the period say from covid and now you're using them as a way to help make it not be as bad but even that has a limited life correct correct so the idea is to make the the shrinking happen over a longer period of time as opposed to severe sort of steps got it I just want to make sure I understood that one because it's kind of like Esser I mean it's not going to be there forever right and you built up some reserves in those and now you're using those to make it slightly less painful right okay um the other there's a couple other realities out there some of the eastern Mass towns actually are gaining some population but we're not and as much as I hope and would love emmer to be able to attract more young families to it the reality is the birth rate isn't there we know already who is in kindergarten today and where they will be in 12th grade and so we need to be planning in a way that understands what the school population actually looks like in addition to that people are migrating out of the Northeast not to the Northeast and if we think this looks bad wait for about three years when it hits higher ed and they start seeing the real problems Even in our own town so that's a reality I I just have hope I have serious hope that we can find find Creative Solutions to continue to offer the best possible variety of courses to a shrinking High School population so that in fact we can continue to be very proud of not just where our kids go to college but for those kids that don't go to college the kinds of future they can look at and I really really urge that no matter how this budget comes out this year that that planning process needs to get serious and it needs to have some real expertise brought into it and it has to involve conversations across the Commonwealth because the solutions are going to have to be across the Commonwealth we're not alone you've said it many times so somehow or another as we as you know ammer put our faith and our hope in our schools we've got to ask that you not put off this really serious serious planning for the future any longer I know we're looking for a new superintendent Etc let's hope they're ready to take it on cuz we can't be sitting here every year asking for an 8% increase in our budget for the schools and there is no way that I see the state making it up somebody said at one point chair chair Sarah Marshall and I discussed oh let's do a campaign for Chapter 70 and then I realized we'd be going to the state to try to get about $80,000 more and I said how much time can I spend on trying to get $80,000 more from the state you know it isn't Chapter 70 is killing us and Charter it's killing and Charter and it's really hurting a wide variety of school districts but amest has to figure out our future and it has to be a future where we stay invested in our kids and we figure out using things like technology to make sure we can continue to offer the variety of classes that we are able to offer now I don't have a question I'm sure I'll have more but you answered the one about revolving funds Pat dangeles thank you uh you know how when you have a pebble in your shoe it can be really small but it keeps bothering you I uh have a very minor question in this very large structured budget uh the reduction of capital projects okay and we're being told me for the first time about leaking ceilings or pipes that have flooded auditoriums and rooms so is that being addressed this year as a capital project what's happening with that specific Pebble so we you know we knew we were needing a roof at the middle school for a while uh we have been uh applying every year for several years to uh to get uh support from the state uh through their msba projects um it's called accelerated repair program which is different than the one that the town of ambur is getting for the school building um and uh you know we're we're in a group called everyone because um you know districts across the Commonwealth built schools like we did uh in the in the late 60s and early 70s and so all of them have school roofs that need to be replaced at the same time so the the the program and the funding scource for msba funding uh is is kind of highest need first um and so you know each year that they sort of award projects like roof for replacement uh we tend to be sort of one year out of the cycle of cut off for that um um so we've been planning and working on that and we have actually a debt authorization to to uh which we'll we'll probably have to get a larger one in a couple years because the number number of years have passed and the costs have gone up um um so we've been we've been continuing to work in in in submitting to that program and have not yet been successful and uh uh last fall we did we did uh take some of that de authorization to do some some repair work on that roof um uh and yet it's you know it's not a complete repair by any stretch uh you know it is a bit of a wacko problem with a roof that's you know at that over 25y old sort of place um I will say that the the you know the sort of weather event I mean we do have and have had for several years issues with regard to to the roof and and and we have a variety of ways we've tried to capture that water in in ways that are least harmful students and and least disruptive to the educational program however uh we had a Circumstance the early part of the winter where you know we've got three or four inches of snow and then it rained for two days and so that's basically put a sponge on top of the roof and then fill it with water it doesn't matter you know if we'd had a new roof we might have still had leaking problems in that circumstance and that's not to diminish the need is very great there we've been trying to find a mechanism to get uh our roof funded from msba they cover roughly about half the cost um and uh and we've also been waiting and they put the program on pause during the pandemic for a year and so that's delayed another year so uh we did submit again this year um you know and we're hopeful for that you know if it degrades much further we're going to have to to to just cover the cost on our own and and figure out what that is but it's going to cost all four towns twice as much and so when you look at our that you know that sort of last slide and you look at those out years where the numbers start to get really big really quick there's a number of projects like that uh that are in the mix there um so it's it's it's a it's a real conundrum there there are um you know a variety of things talking about sort of strategizing to the Future um and thinking about well how many students do we have and how do we structure ourselves and do we you know still maintain two buildings um you know the Middle School building was built in 1969 the high school building has uh portion building from 55 part of the building from 64 and part of the building from '96 so the newest part of the building's you know pushing 30 years um roughly about half the building is from 96 renovation and then uh about 20% from the 50s and and 30% from the uh from the 60s and so all of that building needs some work as well and so do we look at different ways to structure um both the buildings and where we put the kids uh you know as part of the longer term planning and thinking about how to be most efficient with the number of kids we're going to have and the space we have and the infrastructure we have so all of those things are are simultaneously uh components we have to evaluate and think about in the coming years because any project of any significance um you know of a capital nature you know uh require some real you know forethought and planning and and and and Gathering of resources to cover it um because you know uh so an idea that we looked at a few years ago and and then sort of you know was looking at whether or not oh well if we get a little bit smaller maybe we do a small addition at the high school building and put 7 to 12 all in that sort of space but that kind of stalled pretty quickly because once you make that level of addition to the building you have to bring the remainder of the building up to code and so the lowest in cost on that was over $30 million and that was you know five years ago so all of those are in the mix as we think about these kinds of things and and and we're endeavoring to to uh to maintain those buildings as best we can uh and and strike that balance between you know uh uh leveraging State funding to help us out and just needing to do some of the work fly on our own and we're trying to find that right balance in in doing that um but it makes for challenging spaces for kids to be in that's unfortunate thank you for all sharing to do the the budget I have it dra so arpa arpa funds I believe could be used for that kind of repair thank you councelor hanaki um this question may be more for our town manager but potentially also our Acting Superintendent um negotiations with ammer college for potential Pilots have been ongoing for a number of years and we have not received a lot of updates about those but my question is specifically regarding funding for schools from amoris college has amoris College during those negotiations offered any specific amounts of funding specifically for either our elementary or Regional Schools or any capital projects related to them and if so what is the what was the town's response to the specific funding that may or may not have been offered uh So currently is my understanding that the Amis College provides about $85,000 a year 75,000 goes to the region and about 10,000 goes to the elementary school um they have discussed a slightly larger number um over a long period of time which I've determined is well well well below what needs to happen from the college Pat did you have your hand up okay I see no more hands I'm going to make a motion in accordance with and seek a second in accordance with Charter section 5.5a to refer the ammer pelum regional school budget to the finance committee for a public hearing and recommendation to the T to the council within 30 days is there a second second thank you Andy uh are there any other comments or questions seeing none I'm going to begin with Anna Devin goth here I councelor ET I Lynn gur's and I councelor hanii Bob hegner I councelor Lord did we lose her was here okay I'll come back and see uh Pam Ro yes yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer toab yes councelor Walker yes Patty Angeles hi and councelor Lord she's there but she may have taken a break all right it's unanimous except for one counselor who is absent thank you uh we are going to take a 10-minute break which is long overdue thank you all for being here thank you for your time thank you for those of you that have hung out in the audience as long as you have um thank you all very much for taking it please uh make sure you mute and also turn your picture off turn it back on when you come back for how but I know I'm just wondering so this e e e e e e e e e e I all e e we need to reassemble thank you yeah as you return Please put your video back on so I know you're back I just want to make sure people are back I'm okay you're back all right um the next item on our agenda is the community preservation act appropriation for fy2 before we begin I'm calling on Jennifer to and then I have a statement to make as well please go ahead Jennifer um yes I just want to make the statement that uh one of the applications for the CPA is from to the CPA committee is from the local historic district commission and my husband is a member of that commission but neither of us have any material interest in the application so I don't feel I need to recuse myself but I just wanted to share that bit of information thank you in a very similar ve my husband is on the group that has applied for the mil River historic work and uh his name is on the application as one of the members again neither he nor I have anything to gain from that and so I see no reason why I can't continue to vote that I guess I need to say something about Carol I guess you do it's what happens in small towns we're all related my wife is one of the co-chairs of the uh ammer Community Housing Trust and U but that is not affecting whether I vote to support it or not thank you are there any other confessions any other any other related complicated relationships please don't talk about them thank you okay um this is we're going to start I'm going to put I'm going to place a motion on the floor okay and uh that is in accordance with Charter section paragraph 5.6 I guess it's section 5.6 having been published on the town bulletin board for a minimum of 10 days on February 23 2024 a public forum held on March 18 2024 and having been reviewed by the finance committee with a report on April 1 2024 to adopt Council order FY 25- 07a an order appropriating the FY 2025 Community preservation act budget as shown on page seven of the motion sheet is there a second second Rooney thank you comments Kathy yes could you just show the motion that we're looking at because there was there's one line that's been amended in the original Financial order and I want to make sure we're yes that's that's what I wanted to see thank you I just want to make sure that's what we're voting on it is okay are there any comments or questions yes point of point of order actually if we if we the motion deleted the the $20,000 for the East historic district how would one reinsert that you would have to make a motion to amend the motion this is the motion at let me begin first of all by saying I'm going to ask the find finance committee to comment and then we'll go to the rest of the council so Bob yeah we uh we considered all of these um projects and we we actually the finance committee was was perfectly fine with this particular project the $20,000 project it was just there was some wording in the application itself that we've had problems with so what we were proposing was that just to send it back to CPAC to get them to change the application I don't know what the process is for them to do that but but only to to then have it come back to us and then we would be prepared to uh to approve it so it's we don't have any problem with the project itself it's just some of the wording and it's in our report to the council some of the wording was um such that we didn't want to uh have that be establishing our positions on certain things that the council has its its own positions on development and other issues um the other thing is that in the original in this order it's uh the name of the project is the East amers local historic district and it's not a study committee which it that that word it should be it should read local historic District study committee you know we don't want to have this EST you know by de facto establish a district by by voting to approve this so it's again there's no issue with the project itself it's just the language in the application and then how it was entitled on this order that we we objected to I just want to acknowledge that Sam McLoud is in the is on Zoom with us he is the chair of the CPA committee and Sam you um raised your hand so I'm going to call on you and then go to the other counselors H uh thank you Lynn and thank you all for all you do again um I did watch the portion of the finance committee meeting I am familiar with the applications I thought it would be relevant for me to make a couple of comments regarding the project in question which is the East amest historic district uh one point I wanted to make was that the report that our committee sent to finance and the Town Council uh the names of the projects reflected the exact names that appeared in the applications that we received that is to say that the specific name for this project application as submitted was East ammer local historic district blank uh it was submitted by the East amorist local historic district study committee so the study committee was the organization that s submitted the request the title of the request was East ammer local historic district whether or not that would have been a desirable title to use for their project is a different question uh if I were to have gone back to the time period where we created the descriptions uh in conjunction with Town staff that we sent to our committee I probably would have placed adjacent to the title of their project in parentheses the word study so that their title as submitted I might have made an asterisk Amendment titling it East Amis local historic District study um so that was one point I was going to make uh and the other point I wanted to make was regarding um the concept of the CPA making alterations to the applications um we have a particular form that's utilized at present as a standard process that was open from September 1st through September 30th of 2023 that application is closed uh so we as a committee don't have the capacity to alter the phraseology words or perhaps bad words un you know uh you know editorializing words that might have been submitted as part of an application uh so uh you know I don't know what our committee might do if something comes back to us I would offer the since you've asked me to or been kind enough to let me speak Lyn I would suggest the following uh that the applicant could conceivably submit some comment seeking to retract it uh I'm not sure logistically if our committee can address the existing application and change it uh or they could uh resubmit again in the following cycle which is in 20 uh commences in September most likely of 2025 this 20124 this summer so I wanted to clarify the name of the application um it reflects that title even though it might be a misnomer uh and secondly I'm not sure what our committee uh can do in terms of altering other than to have a discussion related to the application and Poss get a comment or a desired statement of Attraction for the council those are my comments so thank you the opportunity to say my thoughts after having to listen to what was discussed thank you uh before I go any further pamaron did we answer your question okay um councelor hanii um yeah I I may raise my hand to speak on this matter particular particularly but um on the order that's on the motion sheet um that has the red lined out and the numbers fixed under the appropriation order chart the order itself in the paragraph above has a number that was not fixed and so I don't know whether I need to make a motion to amend the no line that says order to appropriate 1,855 136 to 1,835 136 at the very second paragraph of the entire order that follows right after order um if I need to make the motion I will make the motion um I don't think you need to I think we'll just make the correction um Athena thank you um Anna so I was a bit surprised that finance committee came out saying that they didn't want to recommend a project even though they agreed with the project because of the wording in an application and I want to be clear I didn't appreciate the wording in the application either for example there are some things that I just felt were inaccurate uh if if we had quote unquote student hotels we'd be getting more lodging tax money than we currently are so that's just not true um but I'd like to I'd like to hear what the committee specifically recommends in terms of the the wording that they'd like to see because it seems like my my understanding of our role go is to approve projects not direct wording and applications and you know it feels like a slippery slope to sending back applications for I'm being a bit dramatic but sending back applications for typos right if we start word smithing applications where is the limit that uh there would need to be changes the council or council members find objectionable um before it triggers that project not being taken under consideration if people find the project objectionable or not in compliance with CPA law it would make a lot more sense to me to strike it from the recommendations the council makes but I uh this feels like a very slippery slope which leads me to two questions which one is for Sam and one is for um Town staff which is the first is Sam did this uh can you can you tell us if this conversation occurred in any sort of way when this project was was being discussed at CPA uh and then second is um what would be Town staff involvement with this project and I apologize I have read the application but I don't have it up in front of me um because I again I think that personal opinion does come in on any CPA proposal people care about a project that's their opinion that that project should be prioritized I personally do find the language in this not something I necessarily agree with but I agree with the the what the money is funding and for me that is what we are um voting as a council so I'd love to hear if CPA did discuss this uh specific issue as well and what town staff involvement would be with this project um Paul is this something David zc might speak to yes David's also with us on Zoom um David would you unmute and perhaps speak to that sure thanks Lynn are you are you talking specifically to what role um counselor delin gothier question about what role staff would play yes um yes so with most CPA proposals um there would be staff support as as as the council knows so whether it's something related to Recreation or planning or you know whatever category of affordable housing there's always staff support So staff would work closely on this um uh study of the East Village you know the historic structures they would you know if there was a consultant to be hired to do the work they would work with our procurement officer or excuse me procurement office to to hire that consultant etc etc so there would be close um you know close um you know supervision and involvement by planning department staff Nate Malloy is um one of the folks that we often uh lean on for these kinds of uh projects and he would be directly involved with this one is there any other question Anna no I think that clarifies I I think what I the reason why I wanted to know was even if the initial application had um a bias one way or another or some of the applicants or one of the applicants did have um an interest in doing this to a certain end the fact that it's Town staff that are deeply engaged in it who do not have a stance on the issues who are who are seeking to do the historic preservation work um without a stance on on future development for me that again leads me to trust that application in this project is deserving of CPA funding thank you Jennifer um yes so I didn't um it was just maybe a half hour before the meeting that I read the finance committee report uh and saw that the word incursion had kind of raised a red flag and so I just wanted to clarify before I was on the council I chaired the local historic district commission and incursion is a historic preservation term and it's actually a term from the Massachusetts historical commission it's in their handbook on local historic districts and a study you have to when you apply when you're just doing the study as the first step to even thinking about whether an area be appropriate for local historic district designation the first thing you have to do is survey all the historic structures and document the history for them and then now they're digitized and I believe that the CPA committee thought it was important because the East ammer the area around the East ammer common is the oldest part of ammer that it would be worth the you know the small amount relatively small amount of funds to just have a digitized record of the history of all these 40 or more I think is what it is historic buildings and structures that are around and adjacent to the East Commons to the East Commons so that is really what this study it's it would has value in and of itself it's just the first step in applying to be for local historic district designation it would have to go through many steps they have to survey the property owners in the area to see if they would be interested in having the designation it comes back to the council and then It ultimately goes to the Massachusetts historical commission and they're the ones who ultimately accept the application and they in their instructions of how you um sort of categorize buildings and structures in the area some are called incursions it's almost like non-conforming structures but it's not a pejorative term or a subjective term and that's where that word comes from so I just want to clarify that thank you thank you Mandy Joe so I will address as a member of finance committee and uh Anna's questions because I was the one that initially brought this forward and struggled with whether I could support the Project based on the application because to me supporting a project is also supporting the application and the application I had extreme problems with even though after speaking with the chair of CPA committee I understood the potential benefits of the ACT getting the historic structures reports but I had concerns about does supporting that mean we support a local historic district the creation of a local historic district it was not clear and given the wording on all of this it it implies if we're passing this that there might even be a historic district but my bigger concern was by supporting an a project where the application says quote the construction of prefab shotly built student hotels which detract from and devalue the town and benefit only a handful of landlords is something I cannot support and so I was not sure what to do about a project where an where I cannot support the wording in the application and after speaking at Finance Finance came through with this sort of solution of essentially asking the applicants to reapply with wording that is not so divisive that is not necessarily accurate and that frankly devalues more than half of our student our population in town by the wording that it has um and so you know the application also indicated that they were actually applying for this at least the historic district because they're concerned about development and want to stop it and that's another concern I have um you know they quoted quote rapid changes are occurring in the area including a new school and a proposed ad Json overlay District that are impacting H its historic character and integrity um and and as the finance report indicated talked about the protections that a historic district potentially give to um slowing or stopping Redevelopment or development in an area um so I couldn't I I I had concerns that voting the project equates to supporting the application and the wording in the application is not something I can support Jennifer I'm going to go over to Andy since you he's not spoken Andy yes I would make a uh suggestion and that what we probably should do is initiate an inquiry with the Department of Revenue division of local Services as to whether they would considered appropriate uh for the applicant and and the CPA committee to agree on a modification of the language in the elimination of a sentence that is not Central to the application itself or the Merit of the application and if we can get that kind of clearance then I think that it would uh it might make everybody comfortable to just um change the applic by eliminating the sentence and get it back before the end of the fiscal year uh which is what we want to do so that we can adopt it and have it be a budget item that can be where work can be done during um fy2 which begins July 1st and if do division of local Services comes in with an with an answer that uh we hope that they won't but that says that you can't change an application or they would object to are doing that even Under The Limited circumstances then um we um still could uh have the council make a decision as to whether or not it wants to fund it on the application is submitted um I have a clarifying question and I'm then I'm I'm going to look to Paul and Dave Zac and that is do do we have to go to the state for that kind of a ruling no I don't think we need to go to the state I think we can make a judgment and I think the controlling document will be the contract that we enter into um to expend the funds so I think we can put in the contract whatever the council we we usually don't get into the detail of the application we sign a contract with a consultant say to spend $20,000 to do the work to explore this um this historic area Okay um thank you I it didn't seem to me that this would require going back to the state um but I am going to trust your judgment on that um Pat go ahead she she spoken once so I was going to give you a chance given I understand you can correct the Lang and then that makes it all okay and I can't If This Were Here Right Now not removed by the CPAC committee I cannot support it I mean Mandy you you stated some of the reasons it's clear we designed this District which is in my district and near where I live um it really is to stop development that we need and the language anguage is the true language of the people who are forming this committee so you can change the sentence and make it sound better but the goal of this particular group is the same so I would not be able to support this um now or in the future Jennifer um yes so I wanted first of all in terms of development um so I live in a local historic district um we have had the library is in the district we're doing a major renovation expansion uh we built one of a the sunset fearing townhouse development is in the local historic district commission before they did have to go before the commission to get a certificate of appropriateness which they got um they the project does look like it's contextually belongs in the general in the neighborhood but there has been a lot of new development and building in a local in local historic the uh North Prospect sunset Lincoln local historic district um the Emily Dickinson the Amis media building that is in the uh Dickinson local historic district um destination ammer is I mean people come to Amherst to visit our you know if they're if they're they have you know children that are visiting our colleges and universities and then parents come to visit them here and the other reason people come to Amherst is our his and there are a lot of buildings in this area it may never become a local historic district but there are a number of buildings from the 1700s it's the oldest part of town which we would do well to ensure are not taken down that there and it doesn't mean that you cannot have development I mean that in the district the East Street School would would be built there um so they're trying to help Amherst retain its historic character which I think is what destination Amherst in large part is all about is in no way precluded by having a local historic district that there is development and new building in local historic districts all the time but um you it would be harder to take down you know the 1700 I'm forgetting the name of the tavern where uh the bacon yeah um or the jca building but it in no in no way precludes new development or uh expansion of currently existing structures Anna so um the goal of the group can be what it is but my question for uh I guess I'm going to just put it out to the group and I I I think it might be Jennifer as the most experienced in this aren't the qualifications for determining whether something is historic or not and should be in this registry based on state or national standards it's not something that this group gets to pick thank you Jennifer is nodding for the record so it's not something that this group is going to be determining qualifications that something will will then count as historic and can never be touched um and and I am supporting putting this back on the list for exactly the reason that was stated which is that the governing document is not the application but the contract that is entered into that the town is a part of and town staff are are part of um historic protections don't prevent demolition of historic structures my house is a really prime example of this I live in a really old house no historian is going to fight me if I said I wanted to knock it down because it's just not it's cute little spot but it is not going to be you know in the history books here so um I think that I I'd like to hear I I would like to hear from I think Dave maybe about the benefits or drawbacks to this from Town perspective um without agenda for development or non-development but I if if you're able to do that Dave I'd like to hear it or Paul um I'd love to hear that but I just again this group isn't going to get to decide whether something's historic or not that's that's not what this group gets to do no matter who's in the group um I'm G to call on the town manager thank you um so many of you may know that I previously had worked at the Cambridge historical commission with which is a local historic preservation commission I walk through this area a lot and I'm I think that this area needs to be examined it's the historic center of the town of amoris there are a lot of um buildings built in the 1700s and early 1800s in that area that are um constructively being demolished because they're not being maintained this do this so I think that the town should be proactive in looking at this area and that's what this is a very very very first step is to examine the buildings that are in that dis in that area ultimately it could become a histo local historic district that's again a vote of the council to even begin that process in terms of establishing a a his if we're going to do a local historic district a local historic district study committee and there are rules about who has to serve on such a committee um so I think that um I I totally understand the um the concern about the language historic preservation it should not be used is a tool to prevent development but um there are every historic district commission every historical district has what they call intrusions um uh in in National register districts they're called contributing or non-contributing buildings um so and those are generally just exempt from regulation in that situation so um but the goal of this is to look at the assemblage of buildings that are in that geographical area and Pro provide a monum of pre preservation for them but this isn't even there yet we're just saying like what's there that's what this money will do is like inventory the buildings to a Sur survey of architectural history on this area and see what's there and see if it's if there's enough evidence historical evidence there to support the next step which be to establish a study committee David you had your hand up I gather you don't feel you have anything you need to add at this time the only thing I would add Lyn andul said it very well just moment ago um you know that staff is is squarely behind the proposal for the assessment for the study of the buildings um it's unfortunate that some of the the the language in the proposal has has um you know um you know uh ended us here here tonight and and brought us to this this point but essentially this is really just this is a study the building of the architecture of the history of these buildings the land you know how we ended up with the land use and the the uh the buildings in the configuration they're in in this Village Center and that's will lead to other work in in this long process so um staff is squarely behind the study itself and as Paul said the contract will determine the scope of the work for the consultant George so just to clarify if that's possible um if this motion goes ahead this particular item is going back to CPA and then they're going to go back to the sponsors to see if they'll change the language and then it will then come back to us for a vote is that at the moment where we stand that would be the that at the moment that is where we would have to stand because the way the motion is it excludes this project if we were to put this back in since what we're hearing from staff and from a number of other speakers is that there is General support for this in spite of its intemperate language then it would just go ahead could we make a motion to I would like to make a motion to reinsert this item back into the um original motion and have it go ahead as it originally was presented to us could I do that yes you can uh Athena is there any particular way you want that motion worded not the way I said it I know it would be a motion to amend to change the appropriation amount to 1,855 136 to reinsert the east ammer local historic district under historic preservation in the amount of $20,000 uh with a funding source of CPA ufb and to change the less projects recommended above to 1,855 36 and the remaining ufb for Debt Service to be voted in the general fund $20,250 George so moved is there a second second by Rooney who would repl would be glad to replace her original second thank you may I speak to the motion please I understand understand that some people are offended by the language I too am offended by the language but I think it's really not the point here um this is a good thing it should be done staff sees that it should be done um and what really has Anna pointed out what matters is the contractual language so I think we should just go ahead and I hope you'll support uh the amended motion are there any other comments at this time okay is there anybody Kathy I'll just make a quick comment because I was on the finance committee I support what George has just said and particularly the fact that staff will be writing a contract um I think it doesn't matter what the original proposal wording was that there is a body of work to be done and there's a need for it to be done thank you are there any other comments yes Pat I'm G to quote Humpty Dumpty Humpty Dumpty said when I use a word it means exactly what I choose it to mean nothing more and nothing less and those words uh carry meaning and intention that I think is inappropriate are there any other comments there's an amendment on the floor the amendment's been made and seconded the amendment would restore this project to the financial order I'm not going to go through through the detailed wording of the amendment I'm going to leave that to the uh Clerk of the council are there any other comments okay we're going to vote on the amendment and after that come back to the original motion councelor ET I Lynn grimer isn't I councelor hanii no Bob hegner I counc Lord councelor Lord I'm GNA say absent uh Pam Rooney yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes um Pat the Angeles no Anna Devin goth here hi it passes unanimously no I'm sorry it passes 10 in favor two opposed and one absent thank you 10 in favor two opposed and one absent um I didn't I'm sorry about the unanimous now we are back to the original motion um and I have my hand up yes I would ask that we um split out that particular project from the original motion that we pull it out from the original motion so that it's two votes okay so that the original motion is going to be to pass the financial order the way it is present and then we're going to vote separately on the financial or on a uh motion to yes you want to split the motion what it's a motion to divide is that motion to divide yes so Mandy is making a motion that we will then vote on yes she's making a motion to divide thank you is I I don't think we need a second and a vote to divide okay thank you that's what I was exactly what I wanted but we need to know which part the council will vote first okay um Mandy Joe did you have your hand up you made you you wanted I'm asking to divide out the East amorist local historic district line from understood yeah do you want to do you want the council to vote on that one line first or the rest of the funding first yes go ahead and vote on that line first do you have a motion for that one point of order I I RAR say point of order but don't we have um an amended Financial order on the table don't we we do have an amended now we're going to have to vote on whether we whether or not we want to divide right we have a we have a financial order amended Financial order on the table the request has been made to divide that Financial order into two votes and are we going to vote on that motion no we do not have to vote on according to Athena we don't have to have a second or to vote on the motion to divide not on a motion to divide so it's basically a request to divide request um so the council can vote the appropriation the order without the East ammer historic district and then it would be another vote on the East ammer historic district I'd need a minute to change the order to have two separate orders um if if you want to do it that way or you can just vote and I'll create two separate orders afterwards let's do it that way please okay so do you want do you want let's do the first one on the east ammer historic local historic district point of order I don't know what we're voting on okay we voted first of all we did vote the amendment the amendment put that back into the financial order then councelor hanaki has requested that we divide the vote on the financial order into two votes one is a vote for the East Amis local historic district by itself and the other is for everything else okay but the original it's order was amended that that there's a motion to right for the mo amended version of the order correct to be divided the current order that's in front of the council that's on the floor the motion that's on the floor is a motion to adopt the order appropriating the community preservation act budget with the East ammer local historic district line because that was the amendment was to add it back to the order that's what's in front of you now Council hanii has requested that those things be separated and the council vote on everything but the East ammer historic district and then the East ammer historic district line as a separate motion so there's a motion on the floor that we're going to take as two separate motions okay and so are there other questions George you have your hand up I don't think so okay so let's vote on the East amest local historic district line first can we take 30 seconds and just make sure we're all on the same page and I just want to register when I checked a motion to devise should be voted on when I just looked at the general rules out there but I'm willing to do this for the purpose of time I but okay I I frankly Kathy I thought a motion to divide had to be seconded and voted on and and just so everyone knows in our packet we have the original Financial order right you know not just the one with the strike so okay I'm willing to do it because I want to move on but this is crazy okay are there any other questions or comments yes yes sorry I understand a motion divide is a courtesy to another counselor so I think that's why it's probably not debatable um so it's just a courtesy if someone ask to divide the motion as a courtesy you allow them to do that the Motions are still before you to vote on but as a courtesy you do that thank you all right we're going to move on with this time we are voting on only that line item of the financial order okay yes the East ammer local historic district imprint study committee okay Lynn grimer is an i counselor hanii no Bob hegner I councelor Lord absent uh Pam Rooney I councelor Ryan I Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg I Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angelus no Anna Devon gothier I councelor ET I the vote is 10 in favor two opposed one absent we go back and now we are voting on all the rest of the financial order okay any questions George your hand is still up all right this time we're going to begin with councelor hanii i Bob hegner I Council absent Pam Ro yes councelor Ryan I Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg I Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Pat d'angeles hi Anna delin gothier hi councelor at I Lyn grimer and I and I think I made it through all it is is 12 people in favor and one person absent we are going to move on to the re bylaw 350 rental registration bylaw regulations and fee schedule this is a first reading we will if possibly vote next week on the 8th uh so that I'm now calling on CRC chair Pam Rooney a point of order I I just want note that there was a motion on the sheet that's a moot point now that the finance committee had recommended we didn't speak to that but I'm assuming that the council doesn't want to take up that motion I'm sorry what the council had recommended that the uh community that the council requests the community preservation act committee work with the East ammer local historic district applicant there's a motion on the sheet for that I'm saying that it's move and we're moving on just wanted to make a note of that because you're not voting on it I just looked down and saw the motion thank you all right we're moving on to 3.50 rental R rent reg residential renter bylaw regulations and fee schedule and I'm going to call on CRC chair Pam Rooney we also have um I don't even know if he's going to still join us um Bob Mora is available at some point but David Zac is also with us um Pam thank you and can you hear me without punching over my thing okay we can hear you uh before I even start and thank you for putting this up can you share screens with so I can actually see it thank great thank you I do want to re um respect and thank the members of the CRC starting in 2022 and the members of the community who have waited on this essentially since day one and I I see one in the audience um and I do want to thank Tom Crossman for being a devoted follower of this topic so starting out residential rental property bylaw 3.50 this is an update coming from the community resource committee it is our first reading next slide back in 2023 town meeting ad adopted a rental registration bylaw there was previously no tracking of rental units the permit was Vol uh required but it was a voluntary self-certification for health and safety compliance over uh since 2023 we have seen increasing numbers of especially single family homes converting to rentals the number of permits however started to drop indicating non-compliance the program itself was primarily complaint driven so at the start of the 2022 Council term four counselors sponsored the update of this bylaw Town Council referred the task to CRC on March 21 2022 thank you next Slide the goals that were identified uh by the by the CRC as and and the counselors sponsoring as we began to put it together were a to protect the health safety and Welfare of residents Implement a proactive inspection program instead of relying on self-certification of compliance monitor and enhance compliance for basic life safety through the licensing also provide clear and accessible guidelines for the operation of rental properties for tenants owners landlords and neighbors ensure awareness of and responsibility for other related Town bylaws and to identify rental units on an ongoing basis next slide what will the update require so it's a very complex bylaw it's fairly extensive but in essence what will it require is that all rental units get a permit from the town or face a penalty the exemptions are hotels motels and group homes contact information for all owners and local management is required the management plans such as trash parking maintenance of grounds would be required rather than self-certifying that these would be met today we do not have we do not have many situations with management plans um once in a five-year inspection for health fire building codes and added Town bylaws rather than complaint driven or emergencies only tenant information sheets which do occur now but with key local regulations reminders of bylaws including noise alcohol and nuisance and reflection of state laws and codes that apply to rental properties also an a comprehensive appeal process was created next slide lots of public Outreach and engagement I want to thank Shon b m at this point for her survey that she put together that went through engage ammer but the community forums occurred in July and October 2022 they engaged a a good number of tenants neighbors and large and small management businesses uh the engaged ammer survey was also well utilized it included people that signed up as tenants or identified as tenants as managers and his neighbors we did receive a letter of concern from The Landlord Association especially regarding the inspection requirement as a result we had another session owner manager work session in February 2024 and made some changes as a as a result of that we also got ongoing public comments in regular meetings next slide the process was long um we started out reviewing other Massachusetts College communities where bylaws and inspection programs existed namely uh or including Salem Boston and LEL we engaged with the Building Commissioner and Senior inspector on a on a on a constant basis um reviewing and understanding current and potential practices we separated out nuisance B law concerns to update in a parallel track so that is not linked specifically to the rental Pro bylaw uh it it went through legal review go review and that input was addressed in text changes there is consideration of fee structure that went to finance committee and again uh came back to CRC and finally the the proposed implementation plan and final text reflected the input of that implementation plan next Slide the fee structure tried to keep the fees the lowest possible and for the largest number of units which is primarily the single family units um but still cover the cost um by using about 2third of the uh special strategic partnership agreement fund funds that came from UMass for this purpose uh the owner occupied Parcels would remain at $100 a year all other Parcels at 150 year plus 100 per additional unit up to a Max of just over $1,000 per parcel and a parcel could have 40 units on it it could have 10 units on it um but again this is a per parcel permit inspections we said at $150 per unit next slide I don't know if I don't know if Rob MOA is in the audience at this point I was going to pass this over there he is magically appeared uh I would like to introduce Rob MOA who was um extremely helpful in helping formulate and and um formulate this this bylaw so I'm going to turn it over to Rob thank you thank you rob Moore Building Commissioner uh so I'm going to talk a little bit about in implementation plan uh should the council uh adopt this bylaw and it go into effect later in April um this is a uh inspection program that is uh accomplished over a five-year period but what I'm going to describe to you right now is a six-year implementation uh for that first year being uh a way to roll out the program and phase into a fully functioning program fully staffed program uh and and as mentioned uh the Strategic partnership agreement uh dedicated uh $100,000 for supporting safe and healthy neighborhoods uh the town manager has committed uh those funds to support this program should it move forward and what we would uh look to do is start immediately by hiring one of the uh needed inspector positions uh to move the program forward uh this spring into summer and start to develop the program and you know what that means is uh preparing the uh inspection checklists uh building out the electronic uh open gov system that we use for tracking our our permit and licenses uh Outreach to the owners of the properties uh and and education uh as much as we can to prepare for what uh the inspection program would look like with the the intent of starting some inspections in early uh 25 uh to to get things moving to start to work out any issues and uh build that system uh for a fully fully scheduled uh inspection program uh starting in July of 25 uh so what that will allow us to do is not have to hire all the needed positions all at one time uh we would uh look to bring in our second inspector just before going into that full first year uh so a year from July uh we would be ready for that so leading up to that that you know being prepared for that time we would bring in the rest of the staff and the goal would be to um complete the first fiveyear inspection in inspection cycle by July of 3030 uh 2030 thank you okay we're open to questions and again want to thank the CRC for spending this kind of time to the town Inspection Department for the support and to Shin Bal Millan for our Outreach efforts I will add here thanks to the community for contributing input and guidance I might also mention that I believe this is the third time this has come to the council the other two times has was referred back to CRC with a lot of work has been done along the way so um thanks to some counselors that are no longer even on the council as well as the counselors who are on the council uh George you have your hand up yeah um it seemed that during the near the end of the process some concerns were raised by local landlords and if I read that timeline right there was a further meeting and I'm wondering what if any changes were made to the bylaw to meet those concerns can I respond I'm sorry go ahead pay one of the key elements that changed and anyone can correct me if you want to add more uh one of the elements that changed is that um we decoupled the nuisance bylaw and the um having three uh violations of a new bylaw actually disallow someone potentially disallow someone from getting a permit um to to rent the building um I'm going to look at other people um across the room and or Rob MOA for further Rob has his hand up Rob uh a couple additional items that we finalized in the last uh versions uh this earlier this year uh following those discussions included uh a reduction in the number of units that would be inspected in the large complexes from 20% to 10% uh so um properties that have 10 or more units will have uh up to 10% of their uh to total units inspected rather than 20% Which was an an earlier version of the document um we also um had decided that uh certain properties that undergo inspection either by their uh mortgage e or insurance requirements that are uh conducted uh perhaps by a federal program inspector uh could satisfy the inspection requirements as long as those have been done within the five years and we would uh we would allow the uh the owners of the properties to submit that information and and request the waiver of the inspection for those reasons thank you okay Mandy Joe did you have something to add to that yeah um in short anything in the track changes marked up version that is marked up is what was changed in response from December to that so so that's why there's a track changes version um it can show you what was changed but the other thing I would add is within the bylaw itself um I think it's the bylaw but it might be no it's it under the consent section there was a tenant authorization section added um that the tenant May specifically um deny access to the dwelling unit um for that that inspection and and how that is done and what and whether there a whether and what permit is issued if the tenant specifically denies access for that required inspection so that was also one of the big specific things response responsive to the landlord concerns George so a tenant may deny access the property still will be inspected but not that particular unit is that am I understanding that basically so it gives the tenant a certain right but the building still or another unit of the building will be inspected or unless there isn't another exactly there could be and then that's just that's too bad okay one questions I might a very broad one and um but it sounds like someone can lose a landlord or someone who's renting en Amorous can lose their right to do that under certain circumstances correct I mean there's many many ways to remedy it and there spelled out in the in the bylaw but it is possible that at some point all the remedies have been exhausted and you just won't be able to uh do business in this town is that for that property specific to the property doesn't mean you may own other properties and so you could still those properties but for that particular property I'm just kind trying to get a handle on what is there like a um a death penalty here so to speak um or no Pam um I would say we there is a process for um for correcting the problems and there is a there is uh a reinspection process for doing just that timelines are given and um I would say it's probably extremely rare that there that there would ever be a shutdown unless the building was in such deplorable condition that it should not be inhabited and I think that's the town staff works very hard to um to accommodate and and um bring along even reluctant land landlords um but to correct the actions and that's the process that is described and if if all else fails and something is closed down there is also an appeal process which didn't really exist before either and and George just to be clear it's by property it's not by okay thank you any other questions George no uh Bob hegner yeah I have two questions on timing and time related the first is will the 100,000 will any other Town funds be required for startup or will the $100,000 plus the new new fees rental fees registration fees cover the program from the start and then after the five years when the $100,000 sunsets will we need to raise the inspection fees and if so will that require a change in the bylaw okay um Rob or Paul Rob maybe you want to go with that one sure um so for for startup uh there's no additional funds needed other than uh the $100,000 uh a portion of the $100,000 and the anticipated fees that'll be collected uh the the program is designed to run of uh based on the fees for the annual permit the inspections and about 2third of that $100,000 um strategic partnership money uh after the five years is up uh then we have to find a way to fund that uh so if if the town manager has any comment on that now if not you know that is something that will have to be looked at in the future whether it's raising fees or some other uh funding source but if if we wanted to change the fees we would have to revise the bylaw no no no no Pam Rooney uh we would not have to we have regulations and as proposed now this would go to board of licenses a license lure and they would as we have adjusted other fees in town over the last couple of years they would have the responsibility to keep the the program going if it if it's working um it's it's the board of license Commissioners thank you okay Alicia um I have a couple of questions um first sort of just picking up on George's question um about when the when it comes time for inspection how notification will happen to a tenant so will it just be like your unit is being inspected on this day or will they have some sort of choice so for example if they showed up at a tenant's door and a tenant is refusing maybe because this is not a good day as opposed to I don't ever want my unit inspected is there an opportunity for that to be rescheduled at a time that works better for the tenant or is that possible to be coordinated beforehand so that doesn't occur Rob do you want to answer those yes uh we anticipate the scheduling of inspections will happen pretty far in advance uh so it'll be a known schedule it will be the responsibility of the owner or or property manager to coordinate and give notice to the tenant and I would expect um we'll be prepared for uh you know all kinds of things to happen including uh uh being uh you know showing up to a property to conduct an inspection and perhaps a unit uh a tenant of a unit for whatever reason does not want to have us in there that day we can schedule uh we can put it into a different uh cycle for another year if it's a tenant that just doesn't want to have the unit inspected so we will have um you know we will have protocols in place to deal with all those situations okay thank you um and I just have one more question and one comment um my next question is is there any way to prevent or monitor landlords from passing down the expense of the fee by increasing rent anybody want to take that one on I'm going to answer that I I don't know that we have that capability right okay um so yeah I just I think that that is a concern for some tenants and so I've had some communication from tenants who have received in their opinion confusing communication about what implications exist for this specific bylaw um and I've been reached out to by a number of tenants who have received communication directly from their landlord that tells them this bylaw is going to do things that it's not actually going to do um and I think tenants some are you know for lack of a better word freaking out about it um and so I am hoping that we can find a another way to do some more robust Outreach because people are concerned that their rent is going to go up people are being told that they're going to have no choice as to whether or not uh their unit can be inspected and they're also being told that you know uh Town staff will be able to come and inspect your unit whenever they want and tenants should go to the town council meeting and tell them no um and so people are really worried about this and so I'm hoping we can get some more clear information out to tenance as to what the actual implications are thank you than you counc Walker um Kathy first I want to say I appreciate how long many of you on CRC have worked on this um and my concern from the beginning um because I was almost an initial sponsor but what I was sponsoring is trying to focus on nuisance houses um problem houses so I'm somewhat worried that we are setting up a small bureaucracy to go after all rental units in town when there are and I and as Rob has said we don't know how many are problem in terms of falling apart the slum Lord side so I I would have preferred to start with a nuisance law that said if you have a couple complaints against you it triggers an inspection so we started the inspection by not by complaint by triggering so I am still worried about that and I am still worried about the financing of it so Bob's question was you know will we cover it so I think we need to have a periodic assessment on what is it we're actually doing with this um I I've looked at I actually pulled a lot of these different laws and Burlington has a pretty extensive inspection system with a lot of inspectors and uh purely anecdotally I have a nephew who was living in an abysmal apartment so it didn't NE you know with plumbing didn't work lights didn't work etc so it didn't necessarily solve the problems it may solve some of the Nu problems so I think we're trying to go after the houses two kinds of houses one is their perpetually a problem in the neighborhood another is if you get inside them they're a danger to the people who are living there you know they're we've got slum Lords and sometimes you can tell from the outside of the house that probably things are deteriorating so I I continue to be worried that it's not as well targeted as it could be I do like that we change it the sampling for the really big apartment buildings that we're not going after as many units and you have the right to sample more if it turns out that you're finding some problems for the non-owner occupied but small landlords that have three or four units the permit fee will be higher than the current fee is 250 so if you have four units you're going to be considerably higher so Alicia's concern about some of this will show up as rent we don't have rent control in the state or in our town so to the extent it gets passed on it will get passed on so I I just think we should all realize what we're doing here we are um uh above all I don't want it to be a financial drain on our operating costs we're really short of funds for a lot of essential services so I want to know it fully pays itself for at least five years and then we take a look at it so that's my concern it's been my concern from the beginning I still I know we we said we we're waving if you're already being inspected by federal or state um and you show that you had inspection the wording still doesn't say there is an exemption it says may exempt or may may inspect I've always wanted to move that into the exemption and I know that the reason CRC didn't is that Rob made strong arguments why it should be left word is I can't see why we would inspect places that are federally or state expected so I just want to lower the number we inspect not increase so that may wording is in i1 B1 and the those properties are not listed under the exemption category so it's it's just one section of where it could get moved to a straight exemption so I will stop there I do think there were improvements in the fee structure and in the sampling to make it less onerous than when we first saw it so thank you very much George I guess this is for Rob um is there need to be worried about compliance in other words one of the points made earlier in the meeting was that one of the motives behinds behind this was that the number of per permits seem to be declining and hence people were not actually participating in the program now everyone um is who rents is going to be expected um should we be concerned about compliance is that and what can we do about it to ensure that everyone who rents a property actually has a permit Rob or Jennifer did you want to try to answer that no I have another question okay Rob thank you um you know one important thing that's happened in the last two years is that we've uh We've uh purchased and implemented a permitting and Licensing program that gives us the ability to really monitor uh you know who's receiving licenses and the renewal process and uh get that information really quickly and we weren't able to do that before under the older old system that was put together really quickly at the start of this program uh and and we never were able to um enhance that until very recently so last year we went through and did a did a check as we were working on this bylaw on on for compliance and we did find I off the top of my head it was 110 or0 properties that were that should have been permitted that were not permitted uh so I think we've straightened that out uh so we have gotten those those properties uh licensed again and I think going forward we'll be able to monitor those and we have a better system to coordinate with the assessor's office and we monitor transfers of properties so I think all of these things with uh staff so right now we have one individual uh from the beginning in 2013 that did all of this and you and as much of it as could be done at any time but I think with all of these pieces together uh there'll be a lot less of that non-compliance Jennifer uh yeah I just want to respond because Alysa um Alicia raised a really important point which maybe via our own if and when this should um you know the council would vote to approve it um that maybe between all the counselors in our mailing lists we could you know maybe somebody could even one of the Committees I don't know if it would be Town Services um and Outreach to you know draft a summary and details of what this uh bylaw entails so that that could be disseminated to Residents um so that they would have accurate information about the program thank you Jennifer I would appreciate that as a district counselor um are there any other questions or comments we're not voting tonight we are this will be back on the agenda for the second reading and our vote next week at that point we'll vote on the bylaw the regulations and the fees okay see none we're going to move quickly on um Anna are you with us thank you oh always I know you were I just um wanted to respectful um the next uh item is a proposed change M minor change I might say in the um um Charter Review Committee charge and I'm going to make the motion Anna maybe you want to Second it to amend the 2024 Charter Review Committee charged by striking nine in the number of voting members and replace with seven and striking nine residents in the composition section and replacing it with seven residents is there a second Anna yeah I'll second it and you'll go ahead and talk about go I will and I'm sorry I'm not there in person I'm not feeling well and I didn't want to subject you all to me not feeling well so uh I appreciate the patience with with letting me zoom in um so this came and I also want to apologize the second apology is um that this is not a written report and in the future you will have written reports so I appreciate the grace and and hearing from me right now um go has now for several weeks been unable to find the pool for the charter Review Committee to be sufficient there is not necessarily a specific formula um a specific number we are seeking however based on the app the calfs that we have received the community uh activity forms we have received we have not as a committee been able to um make that vote and and um even hold the vote no motion has been made um so part of this discussion in our last go meeting was you know what do we need to do in order to let this committee get their work started because they have a lot of work to do um and uh councelor Ryan suggested possibly reducing the number of members to seven um and and the discussion really centered on nine is a bit of an arbitrary number um there was concern this was not a unanimous decision from the committee and I wanted to just bring up some of our concerns and I also will uh welcome any other members of go who want to add any thoughts but the concerns with lowering the number include um melt rate so we looked at other committees that had um seen a drop off in in membership as they went along as well as concern regarding uh Community representation on the committee um the the committee was divided but our consensus was really that we wanted the council to have this discussion um obviously the council would be the one to make the decision and you know while every Committee Member on go wasn't set on seven we we wanted to bring this to you all um to to talk about it and see if if the council thinks that dropping the number to seven would allow us to get the work done and would result in a um a committee that is meets the selection criteria that we have established I think I'll leave it there if there's anything that go members would like to add I welcome that as well Cathy oh wait sorry can we can we go to George first as a go I'm sorry George sorry George yeah I think we've really struggled to uh to get to the point where we can declare the pool sufficient um and I thought this might be a way that we could get there I think seven is perfectly decent number um it would certainly be able to I think staff get a good body um we're struggling with nine I think we should have at least twice as many applicants and we're not anywhere close at least at the moment I haven't seen the latest numbers but we're not close to 18 um so I felt that by reducing it by two um we would be able to move forward um and we could we could put seven solid individuals on that body if you want to keep it at nine um we're still going to have to keep looking for bodies I think um because I don't think we're we don't have enough to make that decision yeah I'm going to go to counselor ET who's also on go so seven is a beautiful number but uh nine is no less beautiful than seven um I supported the decision to bring this to the council even though I would prefer nine the reason being that that provides a greater variety of people who could serve um in that role um and in speaking and discussing this issue I think that provides an opportunity for members in town to be to to know of the need that we have and perhaps that deficit can be covered but in any case I think nine just provides a bit more variety than seven does Kathy Shane uh as far as I can see and I went this morning to count all the cafs we have 16 and um I may be off in terms of I might have missed one but I did find 16 so 16 is a pretty healthy number to come to then get to nine um and I I can see why if you've got one slot open you would like to have two people applying but when we're getting to really big numbers I'm not sure your ratio George is as important you know so two slots open it's probably a good idea to have four people but but I wouldn't keep that math going upwards you know can you can imagine the elementary school building committee we have 13 people to say that could only do it if we had 26 so I'm not sure I see a strong rationale for reducing it and I do think one of the advantages of this Charter review commission is more people will know what's in the charter and they will also become familiar there's a limited number of things that can be changed right now and so that knowledge of what can be changed and what is not being driven by the charter per se you know if there's some Council procedure that people want like it's not driven by the charter it's just driven by other things you know on so I I think having nine people get that depth of understanding is a very is a very healthy um thing to happen in our town what six years into this new government you know what's in it um and what can be changed so nine also multiply that by each of them is talking to three four or five people they're not alone so that also increases the debth of people who are thinking about this sorry can I step really yes please um um we're currently by I counted right before this meeting at 15 we did have one person withdraw their application um and the committee looks beyond just strictly numbers um we have a set of selection criteria and so they also the committee discussed looking at um the other uh identifiable factors from the calf including age gender identity uh race ethnicity and um address Pam I think I would say almost exactly what Kathy just said if if we had that percentage of people uh available for zba consideration I would be Giddy and I think um of the of the calfs I I also had tallied up about 16 um and was really puzzled why that didn't seem like a sufficient pool uh I appreciate the the comment that uh this does in fact give us a broader diversity um from within the community I've looked at all the people that that put their names in and they come with a vast array of background and experience so I would I would encourage you to keep it at nine: and move forward ASAP Mandy Joe so I was concerned that nine was too big when we passed this charge about a year ago um and I think we're seeing that maybe that concern valid um I understand the comments that 15 or 16 for nine positions is plenty um but in my four years of chairing CRC um there were many times where CRC voted a pool sufficient for two three or four openings in zba or planning board because at the time the pool included just cafs and that pool included for say three openings six seven or eight people or even just six or five and we said well we've got more but then when it came time for people to actually submit a statement of interest and go through an interview that number that went from submitting CFS and saying I'm interested to actually submitting a statement of interest and sitting for an interview dropped and so if you start with 15 and you're seeking to fill nine spots you might only end up with 12 11 or 10 um and that's when it becomes very difficult to say then the pool is sufficient but there really isn't another opportunity to say whether the pool is sufficient or not at that time you can but it gets more difficult because at that time you've already released names of who's applied and so it is taken if you're saying now that the pool is not sufficient a lot of times the public sees that and says well you're saying that because you don't like who uh and so I I'm going to support the move down to seven because I would be I I'll be pleasantly surprised if the 15 people who have submitted cafs all submit s sois and go through the interview I will be thrilled but my guess is that won't happen Jennifer um yeah I just don't want to take a lot of time but I would support um my inclination is to stay with the nine I just feel more comfortable having a broader representation of the of the community on such an important committee thank you George so when you look at the applicants uh at the current level and you look at where they live you find out that um maybe many of them come from say District I won't name a number but let's say well take my district district three so would you be okay with a body of nine people where say four of them come from the same district or would you expect that whe whether it's seven or nine you want to see a pretty even spread I think you probably would like to see a pretty even spread so by keeping it at nine you're going to make it a lot harder for us to get that kind of of spread um you're going to make it a lot harder for us to declare the pool sufficient um now my other members will vote and we'll make our decision but I guess in a way I'm asking you to help us get this body started by reducing the number to seven you'll still get an excellent pool and it will be a diverse one but if you keep it at nine a we're going to still have the same problem of sufficiency and B I'm not sure diversity is really going to be helped all that much um so I guess it's a cry for help at least from one member of go Andy yeah I was just wondering if we could postpone this uh vote until subsequent me meeting simply because the League of Women Voters is having a a session about the charter review and in that process it could be encouraging people who choose to attend to apply and we may get a group of additional applicants as a result and that's uh now scheduled for this coming Sunday April 7th so uh it doesn't seem like it's a big uh big delay but it might give us more applications and made might make us feel more comfortable with the nine Lynn may I yes Anna Andy I appreciate that the reason why we I asked Lynn to put it on this agenda is when the League of Women Voters already had their first uh meeting of that series I had I did reach out to them to ask them to promote this um I do not have a way of knowing if if uh calfs correlate to that but I was grateful if if they did share that um we wanted people I'm I am grateful to that um and the reason why we wanted to do it at this meeting is that go is meeting on Thursday of this week and we'd love to be able to take up the topic of the uh sufficiency of the pool again so um hopefully that message was communicated at the leagues event on the 17th and I know they have several more but I would encourage us not to wait on this topic I also just want to a clarification we can declare the pool sufficient but we can also still accept people is that correct that's correct we can accept new uh calfs up until the deadline for the statement of Interest they would just submit their calf as well as their statement of interest thank you I thought that wasy councelor Walker um that information changes a little bit what I was about to say so bear with me but um I mean I am in favor of staying with nine um for a lot of the reasons why everyone else said but I also think that this is like an incredibly significant group and that we should give them as much time as possible to be working on the things that they need to be working on um and I do understand the concerns on the other side side and so I just what my suggestion would be and again I know that this changes a bit with what um Anna just let me know about allowing people to continue to submit applications until the statement of Interest deadline but I would say that like I would encourage us to keep it at 9: um and then like set a date firm like we will go over this on this date and is there any other way that we can spread massive awareness between now and whatever like let's say we are going to readdress this at the Go meeting next week um can we do a press release and say like ammer is looking for this like what other ways can we Mass relase information between now and next week where we can just move along with this I don't know but that would be my suggestion Anna yeah so this is something that also came out of the go meeting is that um go is is going to be reaching out to go about meeting me I'm sorry is going to be reaching out to Andy to hopefully have a discussion um or hopefully prompt a discussion at TSO to talk about Outreach for Council appointed committees this is something that uh has been a a big challenge for all of our Council appointed committees um not just tradar review and so we want to have this larger conversation about Outreach and how we're able to do that because right now the best mechanism we have is our own individual mailing lists and uh that's not going to bring in new folks and tends to be kind of a can be a really limited pool so um I that's not the direct answer to your question but um that's kind of the the long-term hope is to improve our our systems of Outreach I wanted to to your initial Point go can keep not finding the pool sufficient um you know I think that that's there isn't necessarily A Drop Dead point um this this group does have a report due back to the council um in 2025 they can request an extension as we see other committees do often on reports like this um and then I think the only other thing I wanted to say is we keep uh folks keep framing this this shift of seven to nine which two people to to be very cleared I know I know that seems like a dramatic shift but um two people fewer as as the possibility that we're going to lose diversity on this committee and I wanted to just raise the alternate possibility that having nine instead of seven might mean that there is more homogeny amongst the group because when we look at the folks who have submitted calfs there's a lot of similarity um and so I think as we as we think about seven it's not it's not a guarantee that nine would be a more diverse representation of our community um what determines that is our selection guidance which is what um go did set and we are seeking divers diversity on a number of Dimensions um that you're welcome to if you want to look back in our meeting folder so I just I did want to challenge a bit the assumption that nine would automatically be in more diverse pool based on the calfs that we have so far thanks Pat just a quick question is there any reason why we can't change the member the number of members on the committee to be between s and 9 and then um move ahead with the pool that we have and see what who is on it I don't think there's any reason you can do that but you don't want is an even number uh Alicia um thank you Anna I appreciate that comment but just in terms of diversity my thought there and that was one of My reasonings and I can't remember if I explicitly listed it because I'm getting tired but um I prefer nine in terms of diversity because diversity of thought um and less about like diversity demographically or like that because no two people really think alike or have the same experience in this town and also this is a committee that I would assume is going to do a large amount of Outreach or like communicating with the community and we all have like different Circles of people and so I think just in terms of reaching more people in the town having the nine in my opinion is what I mean by like bringing more diversity to like the conversation that can happen in those groups and I know two is not a large number but it could make a huge difference like it also has that possibility on the other end Anna yeah and and Alicia my that comment was not um directed at you specifically just to be very really clear I think it it it could go either way on diversity of thought too um and on networks too and yes everyone has a slightly different experience in this town but one of the things that we are looking for in our selection guidance is that difference in an in um opinion and approach right and so I would encourage folks to read through that it's something that the committee is taking really intentionally uh into into our process as we go through if we when we finally get to that stage um but I think as with anything it could go either way I think for me it's really about nine is not a guarantee of anything and neither is seven so the motion's been made and seconded the motion is to amend the 2024 Charter Review Committee charged by striking nine in the number of voting members in replacing it with seven and striking nine residents in the composition SE section and replacing it with seven residents see no other hands I'm going to move to a vote Bob hegner yes councelor Lord um Lord no excuse me point of order yes what are we actually voting on um are we voting to reduce the number or are we voting on the Slate the current number we're voting to reduce the number from 9 to 7 thank you for asking okay uh Lord that was a nay correct yes thank you thank you Pam Rooney no councelor Ryan yes Kathy Shane no Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer toab no councelor Walker no Pat d'angelus no Anna delin Gotham hi councilor no uh Lyn grimer is an councelor hanii hi the motion fails um with all 13 counselors voting it is 8 to five eight in eight I'm sorry five in favor eight against um we um the hour is late gang and Anna uh I wanted to ask if you really do want to go ahead with Liaisons or wait till next week it's one one week uh nothing is prohibiting folks from from watching meetings that they uh of committees that they care about so I would encourage people if you are invested in a the work of a specific committee as an individual counselor watch what they're doing see see what's going on there um and I'm happy at that point to wait until the next meeting to do formal assignments unless anyone else has an objection okay uh committee reports uh Community Resources committee Pam Ro thank you you've heard a lot from us tonight but um on March 12 CRC heard from The Building Commissioner on proposed implementation plan which you heard tonight um a a second item is a special meeting of the CRC will be on April 2 that would be tomorrow night to interview our candidates for zba vacancies and finally that we uh CRC sent the proposed nuisance B update to the town manager for legal review and to go for its normal review so we look forward to getting that back thank you thank you uh Elementary School building committee Kathy and councel walker uh the only thing I have to report you already see um and a lot of you were there we broke ground on the elementary school building project but I I know there there's going to be traffic changes and pickup changes in the website I'll send this to everyone later again so you can look at it it's ur- school- pro.com we're putting up blurs news blurbs on a regular basis and a map and this is going out to all the um parents and students but to the extent you get questions and I'll just give everyone the link that's going to be updated on a regular basis as they um change the traffic pattern on where cars come in and out and uh next steps so we're using that website and there's a link to AR at Arps to the website too so to the extent possible um people are being notified thank you we don't have another meeting until a couple weeks from now okay finance committee um we have met several times since the last time I reported um we have discussed and made recommendations on the $1.5 million debt authorization for the high School track and field and for the Surplus Property Disposition policy um I think they're still before the council um we talked about the CPA recommendation today and we've also started a discussion on the budget review process uh tomorrow we're meeting uh will review the audit and begin review of the regional school budget and continue the proc the uh review or the discussion on the budget review process thank you uh go Anna go had um worked through several different resolutions and proclamations um and we have several more coming coming up on our list um we are still seeking applicants for both Charter Review Committee as you just heard and finance committee uh this is my desperate plea if you voted no please send me at least three calfs in the next couple days for this for both of these committees because this is really this is getting really tough um and if you look at the breakdown y'all it's we we need we need more folks so please encourage um encourage people to to submit uh interest Community Action Community activity forms excuse me um we also began our review process of the uh Town manager evaluation really starting just looking at our own process at our coming meeting each go member was assigned several other towns to look at their processes and see um what works well what doesn't work well um and what we might consider after the retreat I think this is a really good um exercise for go to go through and also start considering the um impact that this has on the goals so we're looking at other towns and bringing that back we have several future agenda items including the nuisance bylaw and the ah report that we are waiting to hear back from legal review on we are not avoiding putting these on any agenda we have not gotten them back from our legal team so once we have them back we will put them on an agenda and be able to U move on those but to to date I do not have them so um I I have them from the the uh initial folks who created them but I do not have them back from legal review um go meets this week and uh we'll be continuing on continuing on thank you uh Jones Library Pam Rooney Paul Bachman there have been no meetings okay uh TSO Andy Steinberg something on Library yet Paul Library I'm sorry what did you have anything you wanted to add on Library um so we have a new location for the ter uh subject to um final negotiation of the lease but we needed to get an RFP out there for moving services and it's at 101 University Lane University Drive um which is adjacent next to the post office to orient you it's a great location less than a mile from the current location on a bus route um so three minute drive 20 minute 10-minute bus ride so very good location thank you uh TSO Andy yeah TSO has had a number of meetings and rather than trying to give a comprehensive report now what I'm going to do is never to get a written report into the packet for the next meeting and uh then um I can answer any questions that come up there the one thing that we did do that um is is a uh recommend recommendation back to the council so it needs to just move along at some point was the uh approval of a proposal on North Pleasant Street for uh modifications of uh mostly sidewalks and bus stops crosswalks um and uh but um as I say We'll um I'll Endeavor to get a written report to you save time tonight thank you um Town manager's report Paul yeah just a couple things um wanted to note that to uh tomorrow we have two meet and greets with the um two finalists for the police chief one at 5:00 pm uh with Todd dearn and one at 6:30 with Gabriel Ting uh they will also be here for most of the day interviewing with the search committee um as they continue to have their deliberations um and um and with me with me with me and with the HR Director uh the um Crest director has her first day on Monday April 88th uh we're planning a reception for her uh when she gets her feet on the ground in the first week or two as soon as we can get that arranged and you have already noticed that the North Common has uh is now under construction again the the contractor is eager to get that project up and running and finished and we will uh they have a deadline of June 30th so they're making really good progress the one thing that you'll notice is that the bus stop that is in front of town hall is now going to be moved down Main Street a little bit while they do that construction on that on that curbing uh then it'll be mooved relocated back to where it is okay questions of the Town manager George Ryan Bank Center elevator it's out of commission can you tell me the story it's two months is that how it's going to be out for two months oh I don't know what the exact time frame is um it's a long story I can tell you it we got time Paul so okay um so yeah it's it's been a uh it's operational but not um passing inspection and so there's some water in the pit that they won't pass inspection since they're um and we can get the water out but they want us to get up Waterproofing Company come in and waterproof the pit um they're about a month away from being able to come in and do the waterproofing that's very frustrating for our staff I'm just do we have a sense of how we kind of the ball got dropped or was it just would due for an inspection and that's what they found yes that was it yeah are there any other questions or comments for the town manager okay uh Town Council comments there's no president's report I can tell you that I'm looking at what we've potentially scheduled for April 8th and we're going to need to reduce it because it is just too much and um so but I also want to make note that we have asked you to hold April 29th uh uh for a council meeting the idea might be that we'd be voting on the regional school budget at that time but we may also shift some of these items to that night too um the items that I'm looking at for April 8th the possible items are and this is not a promise update on Hickory Ridge two resolutions um Children's Mental Health Awareness Week and day uh and Jewish ha American and Heritage Month uh rental registration bylaw regulations and fee schedules second reading and vote amris College sign requests North Pleasant Street pedestrian improvements Valley Bike Surplus property um planning board report on ammer Hills nuisance bylaw if ready I think that would be enough to discourage most people um are there any questions yes George uh yeah Andy I just you you reminded me of something that was important that I should have said with TSO TSO also voted to recommend the um sign for that was requested by ammer college U and uh since that's on next week's agenda I thought I should add to my report of tonight just to say that that recommendation was made thank you are are there any other counselor comments or future agenda items seeing none I'm making a motion to adjourn is there a second Shane seconds okay um we're moving to that vote and the vote is um uh we have to do the vote gang uh councelor Lord Lord I Pam roone yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes paty Angeles hi honor devil gothier hi councelor hi Lyn grimer and I councelor Hann hi Bob hegner hi it's unanimous the meeting is adjourned good night everyone