##VIDEO ID:xN4MnbDjfCs## okay we're recording please go ah welcome everyone to the uh Charter Review Committee um meeting on November 14th uh this was postponed from the 7th I believe and um we're going to get started uh I will first go through the folks who are here and ask if you can hear and be heard um so I'll start on my screen with me I can hear you can you hear me yeah Bernie pres rapael pres Erica hello excellent um so that is a quorum of the committee we have Andy um Dan and uh Ken and Marcus who can't join us tonight um but that's a quum of the committee so we'll get started um and I guess we'll start with the minutes we don't have I wasn't able to review Meg's draft and I don't have a draft from the last meeting for you so I would ask that we skip that for tonight sounds good so we'll postpone the minutes um and hopefully be able to get to them next meeting so my next agenda item is public comment um so anyone who would like to speak um for public comment please raise your hand uh on Zoom like in the physical raise hand button um or press star n from a telephone and you can uh come into the meeting make your public comment for a limit of three minutes and uh tell us what you have to share you seen anybody Athena I'm not seeing anybody okay excellent um so with no public comments we will move to the meeting schedule um and this is sort of more of a housekeeping thing if you will but basically I postponed it from uh nove this meeting from November 7th um given some concerns uh that Athena emailed me and um what we're thinking is at least from my perspective what I'm thinking to do is I'll let Athena explain some of her concerns and let folks ask questions I think what I'm going to do is have us postpone the next meeting on the 21st um and uh in addition to that send out a form to ask committee members um other times in November and December that they are available um to see if anyone's available on Tuesdays and Wednesdays um in the evening um and see if that's an appropriate time for us to make up some of our meetings given that we won't meet on the 21st um and we can't meet on the 28th because that's Thanksgiving um as well as in December on the 26th that's the start of Hanukkah and K Quanza so that will mean that we next meet on the 12th um so we're going to try to find uh Tuesday and Wednesday by the 21st that work for us to make up meetings so hopefully keep your eye out for two or three Tuesdays and Wednesday days in your calendar that might work and an eye out for the form that will'll ask people to fill out by the 21st um to schedule those so that's the decision I'm making and I will welcome anyone who has questions or comments um but I'll first hand it over to Athena to sort of explain um how she felt I know she shared the email with you all today yeah Dan I I didn't realize that the email had been shared outside the meeting so Dan asked that it go to all the members and I sent that around for folks in the audience um to give some background I emailed Julian asking to postpone the the meeting last week and the meeting that is scheduled coming up for next week because I won't be available and um our staff is stretched thin and so in consideration for their personal time and my availability I ask that those meetings be moved got into a little bit more than that in the email and I'm happy to answer questions but I can leave it there for now excellent thanks so I'll take questions raise your hand on Zoom um and if I can't answer them I'll ask Athena Meg um I wonder if it's possible for us to meet not in the evening because that is hard for people with families even like 8 AM to 10 or uh 4 to 6 or 3 to 5 I just you said that we're going to consider evening options um I wonder if we can if it's possible to have additional times considered yeah I would I would be open to considering um an early morning time or a uh like afternoon like 3 to five time um I don't want to go generally like in the middle of the work day because that might be difficult for folks from the public to attend um and some of our committee members so I think that uh evenings or very early in the morning um like we did that first time uh if we wanted to go a little earlier in the evening like five o'clock um or whatever I'd be open to that too other questions comments thoughts Raphael I assume there's a poll that'll be sent for us to let you all know when we're available yes I believe Erica or aena will send that out um to be filled out by the 21st yeah the rapael and others the way I understood our our process going forward for this scheduling issue that we're having is that Athena will offer some limited alternative days other than these Thursday evenings for the remainder of 2024 and then from that we will I will set up something to sort of survey this group and see which of those dates might be optimal um and just while I have the floor Meg I would love to have alternative times during the day I work 9 to 5 as so it doesn't doesn't preclude every every meeting of every possible time but it does mean I can't make that a regular time right so I'm sorry thank you no I appreciate that Erica um mathen um so I did many rounds you'll remember of polls trying to find meeting times for this group um before for your first meeting so I'm passing the Baton with gratitude to Erica um and I will work with her to make sure that the the dates and times and the polls are ones that work for me and then um she can help coordinate with members to find uh states that work for all of you and um I know that the committee adopted a meeting schedule but there's no it's not set in stone per se um you can add meetings you can add public uh Outreach of events and so on that's sort of uh just what folks can expect and with the understanding that things can be added and changed there's even a little line at the end saying it's subject to change so it's fine yeah um and I will it at least my understanding is that that those meeting times and stuff is generally in the discretion of the chair so uh I'm happy to take input as I took from Athena and other members but generally that is within my discretion um so then I think moving on from that if we don't have any other questions yeah Erica thank you Julian uh before we move on to our agenda item I wonder if I could just have the floor on a non-agenda item I just wanted to say something sort of for the record I think that there is uh topics and not anticipated uh by the chair on agenda item 14 which if it's not related to I think that's probably the best place for that okay excellent um so any other questions comments Etc no um hybrid meetings um I this sort of ties into the Outreach discussion that's later on our agenda um but I would like to see if we could have a hybrid meeting on the 12th in aims or effort to uh to do some community outreach um and get to meet with people um and sort of get the process rolling I've heard from a few members who feel like it's things are moving too slowly and I would in some Essence agree with that perspective that uh that we have gotten off to a not extremely slow but somewhat slow start um so I would like to uh see if the committee is open to having a hybrid meeting on the 12th um and December 12th and if there's suggestions of where we would like to do that meeting um to get Outreach and more public opinion Athena uh there there are technology restrictions um to do a hybrid meeting if we want to do a hybrid meeting like we do for the council then we need to do it in the town room okay um so I guess understanding that how do we as a committee if we want to have a meeting or Outreach event um at one of the apartment complexes or at a park or something like that obviously the weather's not the best for a park but you get my drift um May I respond or do you want to call no go right ahead um so um it it depends um you can have in-person meetings there's no restriction that says that you can't have a fully in-person meeting um if you are trying to just do Outreach and share information and hand out flyers and sort of chat with people and maybe you'll have less than a quorum hopefully then you can do those kinds of events and not post them as official meetings it seems like those kinds of events aren't intended to be meetings because you're not deliberating on something you're maybe just sharing information so depending on the intent of the meeting on the 12th um that will maybe inform what type of meeting and where and what kind of Technology we'll need so I think if if you if we talk about that then that will help help us figure out how to do instead of just like all of the things that we might do no I see what you mean um Bernie yeah um if we have a meeting that's a formal meeting that's something that a quorum or or greater Comm will be present then the space we're in has to be accessible and available to people with um mobility and sensory handicaps okay so that um that would mean if you want to meet somewhere at a conference room in a another place or u a a meeting room that a game room or activity room in one of the complexes we'd have to post it we'd have to post it for that space at a date and time for certain and we'd have to make S sure that it's accessible in in in large scale uh not just you know for for somebody like me who can amble in uh right it's got to be uh it's got to be available to really available to people that's why I think um if we're GNA do hybrid meetings we're probably we're safest to hold them in town hall because town hall is accessible and if we needed to have someone who uh could sign or or you know have have some other kinds of uh challenges we could make those arrangements I think easier through the town than uh trying to do it remotely if we want to hold just general and I think I suggested this in my notes um you know we could do uh office hours we could do Coffee hours um where a couple of members of one or two members of the committee would just be present for a conversation um and that's you know we'd have to be um we have to be careful about um not getting outside the open meeting law with this and it's I mean it's silly but it's what's the it's the the law um but yeah no I I mean at least I'll interject sorry I should raise my my hand to actually comment um but I would just say like yes there is accessibility concerns I don't think that should preclude us from using spaces that are outside of town hall you know there's plenty of accessible parks there probably are private spaces um we have libraries libraries exactly that sort of thing that are accessible and I wouldn't want it to preclude us simply because I think there's also an accessibility issue at least from anecdotally what I've noticed of who shows up to meetings on Zoom or in person in the town room um that we may not even though that in in your respects yes has an accessibility aspect there's also the sort of boots on the ground reality that who's showing up to most Town meetings and events in the town room or on Zoom is not representative of ammer the town so I think that going out into uh the community whether that be the north Hammer library or grath park or whatever is is a worthwhile Endeavor given that those spaces I believe are accessible um cold yes Erica yeah um I was under the impression that the the hybrid meeting that you were proposing for December 12th was a meeting of this committee and I think what is being discussed is more like a public event to to right invite the invite the public with a different kind of purpose around collecting uh feedback or engaging in discussion not that the public isn't coming isn't invited and welcome to come to all of our meetings but that I thought you were describing something that was sort of more um with less of our own agenda and more kind of organized and described and advertised as a public comment uh Gathering session and so I think just clarifying what what you're what you're meaning by that because I think hybrid meeting means something different for this committee than it does for a public event yeah I might not have put it well on the agenda item what I was thinking was that we should have those public events like we were discussing and that's why I had agenda item um for creating the Outreach plan um and create resources for public input that we'll get to but what else I was thinking was this separately was to have these hybrid meetings in an effort to let people know of our committee business and have a larger demographic and diversity of folks actually see us operate um which I think is important at least trying to Branch out and say yes there's ways you can get your input Hood but for folks who might just be genuinely curious to curious to see us operate but don't know about us because they don't check the town website or don't have a car to drive to town hall or any of those sort of things that we should try to expand um into the town and into the neighborhoods and and so the December 12th that you were proposing is in is a is a regular committee meeting but hybrid as if as we did on our first session exactly yep exactly just a different location um was what I was hoping to do um so does anybody have a suggestion for a location we could explore Meg but it seems like Athena said the technology won't work in Another Place Another location for a hybrid meeting is that accurate did I miss he here to run a meeting like we do for the council in a hybrid fashion I I need to be able to do that in the town room um so so making things work with the audio and microphones and preventing people from getting feedback in their different microphones we need a different audio setup to run the meeting through so that we can do that so people on Zoom can be heard if they want to make comments it's not like I can just bring a laptop and then we have a hybrid meeting set up it's it's much more honorous than that so if you'd like to have just a hybrid meeting like we did at the first meeting then that's easy to do in the town room I can check now and make sure the town room isn't available if that's what you'd like to do and then in in the future if we want to have specific Outreach type of meetings and you'd like to have some some more set up than than what I can do single-handedly then we can work with Community participation officers and it and do something special but that's not something that I want to offer for every meeting that's not a reasonable request okay what I was thinking was maybe Bernie go ahead well I I was I'm thinking we might be getting out ahead of us sh uh I I'm still advocating for having a discussion uh a meeting devoted to talking about the charge that the council has given us and going through step by step the charter indicating what areas are uh if you will fair game for us to uh us to discuss and make recommendation versus areas that we might you know have a subsequent after Action Report or something like that um we haven't done that and I think it's important I also think it's important to hear from Council uh Town Town attorney as to you know what this um what what what the the framework is for our our review and again to confirm where it is in the charter where we can make substantive recommendations versus saying these are issues that we've heard until we do that we're going to hold public meetings and people are going to come in and not be focused I mean this is fairly esoteric stuff here I I will venture to Guess that 90% of the voters in town haven't read the charter you know so so we're not we're not my humble opinion we're not organized enough to go out and start doing um Q&A or presentations to the public uh you know we'll get can get into this a little bit more when we talk about voter Outreach or uh an Outreach plan or or public input because I really think we're going to have to do some framing for ourselves and not go out to folks with open-ended questions what do you think of the charter uh Erica you know uh I would agree with Bernie for the most part and I would just add that um what I would take from what you've proposed Julian is that it is important that whatever whenever we decide to amp up our efforts to get the public in this room or in public events that we need a good lead time and not just do it sort of the you know the week before and advertise that as a regular meeting but give ourselves an an ample sort of Runway to promote the fact that we are inviting um people to come and engage in either our meeting or in a public event um so that that's the that's the key piece that I'm taking from what you're saying you're looking out ahead about a month and I think that's uh really useful way to think about it okay yeah um I guess I'm thinking I think Bernie has a good point that we should actually go through the charter like have it on our desks and look what's fair game what's not fair game what what would require us to um us to go to the state legislature as opposed to what we could actually do ourselves um as a town so I think that that's really good idea um that you mentioned to do that and I'll certainly include it on the next agenda I would prefer if we could do a our meeting on December 12th maybe in person um and I know it was recently renovated so we could use the north ammer Library um as a location to do a solely iners meeting um that would at least in my understanding resolve some of the concerns around having a hybrid meeting and feedback and that sort of thing um so maybe it'd be possible to do a fully inperson meeting in the north ammer library with uh with sorry I'm blinking on the word um with the charter in front of us uh and looking over it and seeing what's fair game and not Erica and then rapael thank you um I feel like a wet blanket but I I've said this in this meeting before and I'm sorry to have to say it again I am not able to do inperson meetings um it's an accessibility issue for me and I'm not g able to do that so I I hope that we can include it in the minutes because I feel I feel a bit bad about having to repeat it okay but it's important to me that that I don't want to have to douse this I idea it doesn't mean I can't participate in any of our planned public events but as a as a standard for my participation in the committee I'm meeting virtually okay uh Rafael and then Meg so I heard what Bernie and Erica has shared about the work um in terms of going through the charter I don't want to lose sight though that I feel like part of our work is letting the public know about our existence and the charter itself and I don't think that's a heavy lift in terms of here's what we do here's this Charter um I think that still needs to be on the table um so I just want to do don't want to lose sight of that so how do we get word out to a number of people in town like this community exist here's the charter yeah Meg I raised my hand to then Erica said what I was going to say but I raise it again to support what uh Rafael just said I suggest that we write a opinion piece in the Gazette or the bulletin that we all sign that just says who here's Who We Are We Exist we're looking for input here are some of the ways you can provide input I think that would be a kind of public statement that isn't typical of town committees and um it would be a good start with information about how people contact us what they what especially after our next meeting when we've clarified what our clar what our scope is and exactly uh what we're able to talk about or want to talk about yeah that's my suggestion a comment an opinion piece in the Gazette it's they're not hard to get in man they they're looking for new ideas let just let me tell you we also we we also have the what's left of the bulletin um and we have a couple and we have a couple of local we have a couple of local blogs that are fairly well read that would be happy to publish a they all would but do a sort of piece that we all like we all somebody drafts and we all sure edit and then um just get it out there with I think that would signal a lot of uh we're I don't I could say more I'm not going to say more now but um The Gazette and the bulletin they often you can get it in both are very eager to have some new voices and new ideas yeah Erica I would second what Mike said I just would encourage us to be ready for that and have uh the other venues for feedback and a little bit more up and running so that we can publicize ourselves and direct people to a platform um in which to re rece input and I think that's where we should be putting our uh the the I think we have agenda items that that help us address that tonight but I think it's a great idea excellent um so I guess we are sort of limited Town Hall if one of our members can't attend uh in person and then uh the feedback and stuff on a hybrid meeting is difficult to coordinate in other settings so I'll bring back up the idea of getting into neighborhoods and discussing that in10 and 11 or in excuse me um 09 and 10 but do we want to just say that we're going to do a uh a hybrid meeting on the 12th in town hall where we actually have the charter in front of us and go through and sort of highlight what people are interested in what's fair game Etc and maybe invite the town attorney to that meeting and hopefully by then we'll be able to have um Outreach mechanisms enough that we can sort of more widely publicize that me I I would agree with that plan um except that we had I believe somebody correct me if I'm wrong that we had talked about like having our word kind of initial review of the charter uh a little bit under our feet before inviting the legal council so that we have some pointed uh questions or sort of targeted a little bit more targeted um things to bring up with that person um I don't I'm not trying to slow things down but I but I feel like that that uh activity that you're describing of having the charter in front of us and sort of like sifting through and highlighting and pulling out the um the most Salient issues for us is an is an important activity before we have a paid Council present um I'm hoping that we can meet before then but it doesn't it seems difficult so maybe we need to sequence those things is what I'm okay so you're suggesting having legal council or having the charter to review and discuss up before we uh invite legal council that that's my suggestion that was my understanding from our the previous meeting where we talked about when to when to invite this person right away or sort of hold off a little I had the sense that we were agreed that we would hold off a little hold off I agree no that seemed like a good sense so maybe it's best to um well our next meeting our next meeting currently scheduled obviously we're going to try to schedule some in between then but our next meeting currently scheduled is the 12 um so I think that would be an appropriate time to actually be reviewing the charter and opening it up and then maybe waiting to have legal review at a meeting after that um so I guess I've I'd like to set things more more in stone than just discussing um so I guess I'll fully make the motion that we meet at Town Hall um on the 12 uh in a hybrid setting to uh to actually review and open up the charter um itself can I get a second for that Meg thank you um so I'll go in order Erica yes Meg you're muted yes no problem uh Bernie yeah Raphael yes okay excellent and so now we'll move to budgetary resources request in discussion so this will be a vote as well um and I'll put a motion on the table after we have a little bit of a discussion um so basically for folks who weren't there I know Bernie you were um but for folks who weren't there at the last finance committee meeting um the town has a pretty large amount of free cash that uh has been come coming off of the budget meaning that it is the budget itself is has been less expensive than we projected um so basically we are sort of deciding what to do with that and some members of the Town Council um as well as some members of this committee have suggested that the charter Review Committee put in a request for a certain amount of money to have a consultant and that could help ease the workload on us could help ease the workload on Athena or we could assign them a specific thing to do um and that at least my understanding is the charter commission previously had a consultant that cost them about $20,000 so I assume we would be looking in a similar range 20 $25,000 Athena you had your hand up but you put it down so go ahead I I was itching to correct that the the budget didn't end up costing less there was also so there's a number of reasons that we end up with free cash at the end of the year and we don't need to get into all of those reasons but um okay some of them were very wise Investments by our treasure and I don't want to Discount the the good work our staff got it got it so some of it is investment income in that as well great um Meg did you two things did you just say that money is available or it might be available and my second question or top as comment is um having been on the other Charter the last Charter commission I strongly encourage us to get extremely clear about what we want the Consultants to do and what we don't want what so that it's what we want them to do is obviously implies what we don't want them to do but uh because u i don't need to critique the last process they were very nice people really nice but um we ran out of time and I do we want I know we don't have a time limit but I don't think any of us want to be sitting here for 5 years so yeah I just think we should get clear about what we want them to do and particularly the degree to which it's on the administrative end or on the uh research end and they're generating ideas I mean there's a wide range of what those people can do and that would help us get clear on what the skills and what the criteria are and there was a there were two different bids for that position but I think it was because I think again I don't want to be negative but because it wasn't totally clear what we hoped they would accomplish the uh review selecting one or the other wasn't clear I I don't want to it was it worked out fine they were really nice people I just think we should be very clear about what why we're hiring them to do what okay could you repeat your first question is it oh it was is it money available is is the money actually available or might be available so the money is available to the town but it might avilable to us to make a request Council would have to approve that request and they could deny it unless I'm incorrect so I suspect in order to get them to appr they would also want to know what what we want to do with it right we want to do with it right that's that will be definitely part of my motion um Erica then Bernie then Athena I would defer to Athena first no okay um if there is budget money to apply for for to for the uses of this committee um I would first want to know number one is there is there any money already allocated to this committee for our Outreach purposes I see Athena shaking no so that would be my my first um desire for money to apply for before any consultant I feel like whatever whatever Outreach we end up doing or and publicizing whether it's putting up a website um do you know printing Flyers like whatever we're going to do is going to require some financial support and I would put money there before I would pay a consultant and I'm not sure if there is a consultant to be discussed I would want to hear more about what what you have in mind uh Bernie and then Athena okay um I I sit on the finance committee um so the um one of the counselors raised the issue that we have this committee it doesn't have a budget there's no money attached to it and would it be helpful to have some resources for the committee um the Colin Center was one of those things that was mentioned not that we have to hire the Colin Center but there's some advantages and disadvantages in doing that uh so we should I think uh let the town manager know that we do have an interest in uh we do have an interest in bringing on a consultant to assist in um whatever Meg is correct we need to specify what we want the the the consultant to do we do want to have that happen for one for two we may want to have some AB ability to print and distribute materials um above and beyond what resources the town has available to it and I really do think we need to we have the town has a Communications officer who we need to speak with um she should be at one of these meetings uh because she can give us some ideas about what resources are available what she's capable of doing what the town's technology is capable of doing and where there are gaps that we want to fill um and looking towards uh launching this in um you know probably at this point probably mid winter or late winter um is a as a broad effort uh I would at this point I don't know that we can put a dollar value on what we want um we can one of the advantages of working at the C Center is are public so we don't have to go out to bid um Community Paradigm was the other uh organization that was involved in uh uh working with uh the and interested in helping to develop a charter uh full disclosure I've worked for Community Paradigm um I mean you can always contact Bernie and say the other ber um the guy who wrote my chat uh and say what you know what what would you see as role the other thing that I haven't done is speak with mass managers because the former government Committee of mass managers is willing to help us out uh that would come at no charge and these are some pretty clever people that could uh help shape uh the way we perform our analysis as well as um uh you know we're we're not looking for so many do it for us but help direct it and shape it so uh I would I would suggest that we do inform the town manager that we're interested in having some some preash or having some funding available not worrying where it comes from because um there are ways to adjust the budget and free cash doesn't the free cash we're getting doesn't all have to be spent in one lump sum right away uh we we invariably retain some for um unforeseen purposes uh so so I'm not worried about it's if we don't tell them it's all gonna go away on Monday it's not gonna happen Erica or no Athena excuse me sorry I just didn't see your hand go ahead um I uh wanted to say that the the Committees request for any funds would go through the town manager the council can't initiate its own appropriation um my advice to you would be to start to put together an a budget if you have multiple uses of funds that you're anticipating so that when the committee makes that request to the town manager um the town manager can present the the appropriation request to the council with some background information um explaining what you'd like to do with it and so forth um kind of in line with Bernie's suggestion um Bernie Lynch from Paradigm has done some really remarkable um Outreach work um and the Colin Center has has great staff as well so I think you have some options and it's worth like Meg said uh considering what you'd like a consultant to do before you start thinking about how many dollars you'd like to request and funding um we can also I can also help do some research in terms of you know what would it cost to send a flyer to every single residence and you know printing costs and stuff like that so if a member Like Bernie for example wants to put start to put together um a budget request or appropriation request um I can help do a little bit of the research um to get that ball rolling Erica thank you Athena that was really help helpful and and clarifying um uh just wanted to say as a result of this brief conversation I don't feel clear on what we would be calling a consultant for but I don't that's not an agenda item I'm not asking to continue discussion about that I just think it would be important to have the input of the full committee and and really talk about that um but I do think that um beginning to collect uh actual potential budget line items for this Committee in the same way that we collected ideas for public Outreach is an activity that we can continue doing in between this these long stretches between our meetings so I'm G to Julian if it's okay um at at some point like propose here propose you can make a motion anybody can make a motion it's not just me make your motion so I'm gonna motion that we can I can set up a similar sort of collection mechanism for ideas for the uh Charter Review Committee budget it um and what we might spent money on that way we can have it in front of us at all times and sort of then when we come together debate decide and put forward a request a formal request after that when we can hopefully have the input of our three missing members tonight that's my EXC I'll second that motion but I do have some questions about it um my first question is more broadly uh when we are going through the process of requesting free cash is that free cash directly competing with the other allocations um as in like would we see a headline Charter Review Committee competes with road paving funding for money or is that just pulling it out of the free cash itself so I understand what the impact is would you like me to answer yeah please so free cash um you the committee doesn't need to specify the the funding source you can make an appropriation request to the town manager and the town manager can decide to forward that request to the council for consideration and then he would determine the funding source um so you don't need to say we'd like free cash you could just say we need some funds and leave it at that um but the answer to your second question is that yes free cash is um it's being sought after and um considered for a number of purposes and um I don't know if I would say that it's that the committee would be competing because I think the the relative dollar amount that you would be looking um for an appropriation is is reasonable um and in the council's budget guidelines that they um sent to the town manager when he was developing his his current fiscal year budget they included um a line that the charter Review Committee may need funds um for their work but it wasn't included in the budget so at the moment we don't have Financial Resources the committee doesn't have the power to spend resources itself um we we'll work together if and when that happens um and so I think there is an understanding and support from the council that the the committee will need some some resources to to do mailings and Outreach and so forth so I think there's support for that um but I I from the criticism that has already been received about the use of free cash from various areas I would say that yes that could happen yes okay that's what that's what I had figured I was thinking in my mind like we're probably not going to be requesting an extremely large dollar amount but the bottom line is committee members should be aware that the way obviously we may have a part in changing it at some point but the way the budget process currently works is that if we put in a request the town manager could decide to say Charter Review Committee has a um has is competing with blank source so I guess my second question with Erica's motion is and I have three so I'm going to get through my three and then I'll call on you Bry if you don't mind um which is I think it's great to get committee members ideas and Etc but we're moving pretty slowly and my concern is with free cash if it's spent is it spent as in like once it gets all out the door um and we spend our free cash however the current proposals are or in a different way is there a deadline that we actually do need to meet and that just collecting feedback and not pushing through with it tonight will create basically an issue where we are where we're stunting ourselves by saying okay there's a deadline on this that we need we might need to decide by if we want funds so I don't want us to sort of short change oursel if anyone has an answer to that question that would be great um I can speak to that I can speak to that a little bit Bernie probably can answer better than I can but that like I said I don't think you should get hung up on the funding source I don't think you need to worry about it coming from free cash or another funding source you can just make an appropriation request to the town manager and then he will determine the funding source um there isn't a a deadline to spend free cash um there are B's are you gonna correct me yeah no I I mean this let me just put it this way don't worry about it um there is no deadline we can you know we we when we have available funds they can be spent in any time for any lawful purpose by the manager putting together an order at finance committee reviewing the order and then sending it on to the council for the council's final review and approval um if we typically you want to use your whatever money you have by the end of the F fiscal year however I used to be known as a master of this you can ask the treasure for a continuing appropriation which will take it into the next fiscal year on spin so the the point here is let's not worry about everybody's looking for money I've never been in a situation either professionally or as a in in as a elected official uh where somebody hasn't needed money and as Stan Rosenberg once said politics are a lot of fun as as long as you have money to spend so let's not worry about that let's what is it that assistance that we need to help ensure the effectiveness of this committee that's the question if we need to bring in a skilled person or organization to prompt us a little bit in terms of our organization or to offer some direction or to critique our work then we should say that and try to a dollar amount to it rough dollar amount uh if we're going to do Publications if we're going to do mailings if we're going to do something that requires an expenditure of funds beyond what the town can do uh that the town's budgeted for then the manager will tell us that and we can ask for an appropriation to do that so let's let's not worry about um let's not worry about the competition it's not like there's tons of money out there our needs are going to be modest um we have some degrees of flexibility here and we can uh we don't have to sweat the details in terms of timelines if we get $30,000 and we spend 15 and we're going to hold another 15 till next fiscal year I hope we aren't meeting in the next fiscal year um we can continue that right I guess my concern is at this rate it feels like we may end up meeting the the next fiscal year if we can't sort of get the ball rolling and actually that's why I've been that's why I've been such a nudge about this have been such a nudge about sitting down with our charge and the charter and mapping out where we start so I'd like to sort of I guess my feeling is I'd like to now that I've asked my questions I'd like to move forward with something some sort of request tonight but that's just my take Meg and then Athena so my considerable experience with budgets and asking for money is that you have to have a budget that describes why you need x amount of money and maybe to speed things up you know especially a budget that ends in four zeros isn't very is convincing is one that's been thought through maybe a couple of us might propose uh a budget maybe not we're not quite ready yet but you know there need to be things you specific numbers dollar amounts that are related to what you want do we want food at these Outreach meetings do we want you know they the budget the money we ask for has to be related to how we plan to spend it it's related to what we're planning to do but maybe some of us a couple of us could put that together although I'm not sure we're ready yet but maybe I'm going to lower my hand Athena this is an exciting conversation because part of this appropriation request process and Appropriations outside the budget is in the charter and this is direct experience about how these things work and how much time they take when they need to go to finance committee for a review we need to hold a public forum um so it ends up taking you know maybe sometimes over a month to get an appropriation through and um so that'll be an interesting part of the conversation when we get to that point in the charter um the other thing I wanted to mention um Meg just said food and there are some restrictions about what we can and can't spend our uh money on and so um I think it's a uh personally I think it's a great suggestion to um for Erica to to do another uh collection of ideas and start to put together some some uh lines and estimated dollars and then bring that back for a discussion at the next meeting that's my advice okay I guess I'm a little frustrated with how the budget process seems to be working given we don't have much control over where our money comes from we seem to not at least as a committee be able to decide yet how much money we're asking for and I worry that we're moving too slowly if this is a process if getting this appropriation to actually get approved already sounds like something that might take a month or two then we might actually be hiring someone in the spring which feels too late I would like to have someone hired much sooner than that um and be able to at least get this request out the door sooner than that so I was hoping to have more of a timeline in the we can hire someone in January February I don't know how realistic that is with the current process obviously it will come up later down the road as we're discussing the budget process but anything we can do to actually move this process forward more and not just be making a request that we don't really have much control over it just seems like a recommendation to the manager to appropriate funds which we haven't decided how much of yet and then I'd like to actually get together a very rough budget tonight make a request for that amount of money and with some specificity ask where it comes from so we have a solid plan rather than just asking someone to help Rafael yeah I think Julian you it seems like you are making some decisions already about what the resources will be used for I'm not saying a consultant is not a thing that this committee should do but I would love for the whole committee to weigh in in terms of what resources do we need I'm not sure the timeline has to be slow um I think Erica's proposal in terms of giving people a deadline in terms of when to get back there sharing about what resources we need doesn't have to be long uh and I think if we think about the meetings left in this year I think we are in the position of having perhaps two more meetings as a whole group I just think at our next meeting like sitting down and looking at what people proposed and then doing that work then as opposed to now is what I would feel comfortable with and if you think about your point earlier about concerns about what this committee is asking for in regards to money like it it runs count like rushing through like we need to do the budget tonight I I would be very cautious about others I think it's important to be clear about what resource what are the needs and I think there's some things on the table in terms of the plan that we're talking about in terms of Outreach and other things that should be thought about by the whole committee I would say yeah I mean yeah Bernie go ahead and then I have I mean rael's correct what he saying I mean we really do need to kind of plan this out and um and and and look at this hard uh we could um we could ask the manager for a uh a range of funds but that would be again just like whistling past the graveyard uh we have an obligation as a public body to say what we need and say how we're going to spend it and when we make a request for funding you don't ask where it's coming from because the money if if the there's a need an Express need in the money is available some at some reasonable place they could be spent for some reasonable purpose the treasurer the manager will identify that fund those funds and where they're coming from um once the council signs off on an order then the money's available uh and how it gets spent will have to be have to be determined because we really don't you know we really don't have a um most committees don't have the kind of legal or or organization U that's necessary to to to issue uh to to cut checks and write write contracts in the like that contracts are are really the uh the belly the contractual arrangements are really confined to the to the manager and his his designes so uh you know we can go ahead and say we'd like to hire XYZ to come in and do this that and the other thing and it's going to cost why amount of money um and then it will be up to uh all to identify where that money can come from and for the council to agree with the all concept it may take a month but the clearer we can be and the more precise we can be the better off we are you know I've gone through this now for several years here in Amis on two different Finance committees and uh you know it's not as daunting a process as one might think uh other comments questions before we vote on Erica's motion M could you restate Erica's motion please or could she I I didn't write it down Erica would you mind restating your motion not at all um I'm making a motion that uh as a committee we asynchronously provide input and ideas on on what would be appropriate um items that this committee would like to spend money on for the purposes of a of a formation of a clear budget to be approved or discussed and approved uh at our next meeting second okay um let's go ahead and vote on it I'll uh start with Bernie hi Meg hi rapael uh yes Erica yes and myself I think I'll be a no um so on to our next agenda item um which is website structure this was suggested by Dan so we could theoretically postpone it until Dan is here um but my understanding was he wanted to discuss the town website specifically our page and how it's structured what we should put up there what we should share how we should share it so if folks have thoughts on that I'm more than willing to hear them but I would I think it would be best to postpone this issue because Dan's not here to discuss exactly what he was thinking and I don't want to speak for him so should we call the vote there's no need to I don't think I don't think there's anything to call no okaya who's who's our Web Master I maintain your web page maintain the web page okay a thing is the Web Master all right um because I keep referring back to our communications director and I'm not sure what um where we intersect with her and her job and her skills and the town's technology um Sam Samantha gfin is our new Communications man manager she's been really terrific um I think it would be a great idea if you'd like to invite her to a future meeting and talk about Outreach efforts that she's able to provide um during you know she's her expertise is communication so she might have um advice Outreach in general and then she can talk about what kind of Outreach she can provide through the town website social media and press releases and things like that Erica sorry but in in terms of in terms of the the committee's web page I would make changes to the committee's web page I will not I don't want a committee web page um formed by a committee um but I I will take suggestions and if there's um you know I had suggested in the past um a public input form like we have for the council um I'm happy to do that and make some changes to the web page but um I think there's a limit to to how much we can get a Committee involved in designing their own web page and my capabilities okay and what Civics plus will allow right um Erica thank you I had a question about uh Samantha gfin and made me think about the conversation we just had about sort of preparing some or giving some thought in the next weeks to what might be budget line items and that she might have some insight to offer us as you suggested about what things cost in terms of what that that sort of she has in her mind or in her books but what it cost to do um a public Outreach campaign on paper or to do certain kinds of promotions and I wonder if in the interest of sort of accelerating the information that's available to the to the committee if it's possible to to reach out to her um and have her kind of like email the committee or put something in our in our document Center or um or or initiate an exchange of information with her before the next meeting so that that can be kind of a least available or top of mind for committee members who are putting together their thoughts on how much we might want to spend on X kind of public campaign I agree I think that's an excellent idea and I would be more than happy to send her an email and ask um what we might be able to be done I I think there is there is creep I I yep we can't ask any staff member we want to to do things for this committee I'm your liaison so I Lea with your your this committee and our staff if you need something then you work through me if we have nine committee members reaching out to all of our staff asking different questions it's overwhelming so while you are all well within your right to do so I would encourage you very strongly to work with your staff liaison so that we can streamline these questions get them to our staff and then get answers to you in a reasonable amount of time um not all of the information you're looking for would be a Sam question um some of it like mailings to all the addresses we have that data because we send out tax bills we send out census forms so we have an idea of what it costs to send a postcard or a letter to all the addresses in Amis so we can gather information what I would suggest is that Erica like in accordance with the vote that was just taken you gather the information that committee members are interested in um in h spending money on and then you share that information with me and whether it's from Sam or other staff members I can start to put some dollar amounts estimated dollar amounts with those items for what I can um and then you know as long as members respond to those polls in a timely fashion then we can try and get that done before the next next meeting okay excellent yeah um I guess I would ask if you wouldn't mind reaching out to Samantha about the possibility of having our meetings like the fact that our meetings are happening when they're happening and a link to join in addition to being posted on the town website maybe we could get it posted to the town's social media Pages Instagram Facebook Etc is that possibility I will speak with Sam and see if she's if she's um available to attend a meeting if she is then she can come and talk to you about all the different social media things if she's not then um I can gather some questions from committee members and pass them on to her for answers and facilitate that communication I think she would be willing to attend a meeting but again um I'm not sure about her availability and yeah we'll do what we can sure um other questions on this thank youa yeah thank you um okay uh number eight community outreach input brainstorm reviewing responses so a lot of members uh filled out the form that Erica sent out thank you Erica um not everybody did um so I would love to see um do you want to share that Athena can I screen share it whatever you prefer I have it up if you'd like me to put it up okay sure yeah go ahead thank you um and we can review the responses uh folks can add ideas and then we'll create an Outreach plan based on this I can't edit this form because it's a PDF or actually maybe I can I wasn't able to it's just a PDF um not sure okay I got it I can do it I'm sorry go nope that's excellent um so I guess we could just review and sort of if folks have other ideas to elaborate on uh I see what I put in um and just read through it if folks want me to read it aloud I'm happy too if I could comment while you're going through this right ahead if you recall when I set up the form there were two options for public input public Outreach which are sort of two related by slightly different things um the primary question being you know collecting public input what are the what are the formats or the venues or the the methods by which we want to collect input Outreach being how do we want to let people know that there is a place to give input or that there is a place to attend a meeting or that there's a right there's an Outreach piece that's a little bit different so those are the two sections you're seeing here okay for if if it's helpful I have taken what's in the public input section of this of the responses and sort of put it into a grid that sort of condenses them into what kinds of responses people had and then we can kind of discuss those one at a time yeah that would be excellent um I didn't I didn't want to do that without consulting this group because this is the raw information as it came in just lightly edited for readability but I did organize things into sort of the categories that people came up with that would be awesome if you could share that that would be awesome I appreciate that you did that that's great um that might give us some material that we could actually make a motion on for an Outreach plan is this visible to everybody yep that's good uh this looks like a grid but I've listed audiences here it's separate it's not like audiences are only for this first row it applies to everything is these are the various audiences that people listed as relevant or interesting to consult and then under format these are the formats everybody came up with their own ideas or priorities but these are basically the categories that we came up with for what kinds of input forms of input we want to collect and some slight sort of details on what that entails I think the important thing that we'll want to discuss is what kinds of materials or prep are going to be necessary for any of those um decisions I can try to make this a little bit bigger this is terrific Erica yeah this is this is excellent absolutely excellent is it just for is this for this is just for the public input okay public Outreach I feel like is is a related but separate discussion but this is for like how do we want to collect how do we want to take in information excellent awesome um really good yeah this is really excellent this is input not Outreach that's right great um yeah this is this is absolutely wonderful um so I guess for do we have other input that people would like to add if you didn't fill out this form um additional ideas that sort of thing raise your hand okay I don't see anybody um all righty or or to comment right on to like help us I think that I think the process maybe is to just um lift up or or rank a little bit what seems right like the best strategy long term the best thing we could launch with the best thing we could get off the ground and up and running really quickly the most costly that those kinds of criteria right so we can make some decisions so yeah go ahead Meg um I apologize that I didn't somehow I didn't fill this out and I missed it and I can't think of things to add uh but I think the sequence of this is important so that we want to be sure people know we exist uh so that when we ask for input they understand why it matters so I think there's a sequence of uh making uh I'm not I'm just not sure if this is a comment for this part of it or the Outreach side but I think many people don't know we exist I think just to respond to that really quickly I think it was Rafael who put in the public Outreach but it's relevant here the idea of creating a kind of um Rafael correct me if I'm if I'm misstating this but the idea of creating a kind of a short summary um or like a one pager about what the Charter and the charter is that goes that goes out with our public Outreach or that sort of is a kind of introduction to what's going on here yeah that is correct which I think is a great idea wonderful wonderful it's necessary yeah otherwise we're not gonna we're we're We're Not Gonna Get Us useful and usable responses unless we right draw some lines for people to color in between right right exactly I I agree so I guess um given that we've looked over this had some discussion Etc um I will start with an Outreach plan um not an input an Outreach and then I'll move to input so I guess and this can come back up in issue 14 do we prefer a setup where I put a motion on the floor or someone puts a motion on the floor and then we discuss and debate that motion or do we prefer a setup where um where we all discuss and debate and then emotion results from that Bernie uh I would prefer that we carry on a conversation among ourselves and not worry about forming the motion I mean we can um we can certainly do things by consensus uh I I think that um you know we can we can we can shape a you know shape a general plan and then move on from it or shape a general plan and and it to a member to to fine-tune or okay um you know form a subcommittee which I'm a little bit leery about because that gets you into a whole another thing with the open meeting l so we we don't have to worry about formal motion so on so on we can we can operate on the basis of consensus probably 90% of what we do yeah yeah no that that makes a lot of sense um okay so I guess I'll start with my thoughts which is I think a good Next Step might be for outreach choosing a time and location where we actually get to go out in the community and then based off of that choosing what questions do we want to ask how do we want to make people informed of what we're doing um I think having a townwide mailer with a Google form QR code attach to it would be an excellent start and I'm happy to make a Google form and make a QR code for the Google form and maybe send it to Athena to explore the possibility of having it sent is a townwide mailer um and seeing what is doable there and what isn't um so I guess that's one thought I'm having another thought is maybe we could I don't know if it'll require a separate form or if it is just uh just discussing but I'd like to schedule an actual time maybe on the weekend maybe in the evening where we go out and meet with a community and ask them questions um whether that be the general public or we could even start by uh assigning members to meet Town counselors and uh maybe we could have a Athena do you know when the town staff uh like if there's any Town staff Gatherings or stuff that we could maybe attend um we we have Gatherings that are internal I I did bring up at the last um department head meeting that uh the committee would be reaching out to staff but I don't know that an in-person okay would be best I I think um just asking for staff input and they can send their feedback would be fine unless you really prefer to have you know invite staff I think there are some you might be more targeted like there are some staff that interact with the provisions of the charter a lot more than others um like the finance department and the town manager and so forth so uh the planning department and stuff so might ask for more specific feedback from those departments and then send out sort of a a broader net to everyone to to email feedback yeah I think that's excellent Meg um I I think that these different constituencies are quite different and require us to interact differently so I wouldn't want to just show up at a staff event and say what do you think in particular the council I know before this started after I'd been appointed I said to someone on the council actually that I wanted to get together oneon-one with all the counselors they said no don't do that the whole committee should do that um and so for example so my point that different constituencies I think need we need to deal with them differently I would love to for example with the council decide are we going to invite them to a meeting are we going to invite to prepare their thoughts and submit it them to us are we going to have two of us meet with them individually but it be I think it's quite important that we hear what they think and I'm don't assume they agree with each other but I I'm not sure how to do that best but I would certainly not want to just show up at a staff meeting and yeah ask them for their input okay would would it be possible maybe if we could assign me for I could create a Google form um that collects input from uh from like the general public or has that goal um and bring it back to the next meeting and maybe uh maybe someone else a volunteer could do the same for Town staff and town counselors um Julian what are you proposing because I just want to point out this this discussion which touches the specific agenda item of like what kind of what kind of Outreach and input are we doing doesn't touch content this is a this is like a conversation about format which is I it realize not we we're all eager to get to the content but for in the example that you're giving um I don't have any problem or desire to slow down the process of creating a form or creating a a mechanism or setting up a date for a meeting but I I am interested in knowing like what is the Google form saying and that's a that's a that's a a more Collective process I think than we're than we're giving it space for by that's why I was thinking that it could be brought back to the next meeting and reviewed and changed and amended and voted on live in the meeting if that makes any sense um after but we first have to get it created and I don't think that it makes sense to spend an entire meeting actively creating a form I totally agree doesn't need to happen in a meeting yeah um broad Strokes might be helpful but I don't think to review every question no I I agree I think it might be better to like I can create a form I'll bring a form for the general public and then we can review it and if someone says I think that question is too specific on this issue or I'm concerned that this wasn't touched upon Etc we can amend it and add to it in the meeting and then vote for it to go out um so moving this along moving this along um I'm thinking other thoughts for outreach is is it possible to for us to tonight and if not um maybe send out a form to schedule a time where we could go and meet with residents and go into one of the neighborhoods Etc and maybe set up a table set up some food Etc and say hey here is what we're doing this is our purpose we want to hear your feedback and have one person there sort of taking notes about what people say and have it be a very broad brush open session of we ask about I don't know four or five topics in the charter um and then after asking about those topics hear people's impact input on the public process and engagement in all those sort of issues um and take notes and sort of have a community event so could I propose a time for us to do that maybe or Bernie go ahead I'm I'm I hate to be AA about this but we don't have our act together yeah we need to have it meeting where we sit down and go through our charge and go through the charter and say this is what we're going to focus on initially and and I understand that it I'm not trying to block the community out all but I think at this point in time to go and have a community meeting which um you know if you have um it would just be very difficult to organize a community meeting where you've got some uh you know some some specific kinds of or you get some reasonable kinds of responses from folks based on where we're at right now um you know I I um again I'm going on the basis that I think that most folks have not read the charter or they read the charter back when they voted for it that's the last time so it's very difficult for me to say we got to have these public meetings you know we have to have these these social Gatherings of this Outreach kind of stuff we're you know we need to get our act together first I think that's my humble opinion okay yeah I mean I guess I'd rather us reach out to the public and see what they're interested in and let that guide our process more than letting our own um priorities and ideas guide the process we let what the public thinks guides the process and then after that um use that to create um our proposed recommendations and so on and so forth and that seemed to me to be what the general consensus was at our first and second meetings about how to approach this is to let the public feedback come in and then for us as a committee to act based on some of that um maybe opinion is I'm not sure again I know rayi has his hand up I'm gonna ask hisor forbearance here we have a [Music] charge we have to it's on us um you know to go out and say to the committee broadb Community broad-based what is it that you think about the charter isn't going to generate helpful suggestions for us necessarily we have to be able to tell the community what it is we have as our charge and how we see ourselves approaching it and ask them for advice in terms of what their their ideas are and how we intend to proceed the community can't shape this process we have to shape the process that's our resp responsibility as a committee Rafael yeah I'm just thinking about the Outreach element I I I think like yes we have information on the town web page but there are lots of ways to do Outreach I think if you think of what I proposed like I think I love that Julie and you want to be out there connecting engaging that's to come but I think we need to think about our own capacity and be a thoughtful about what are the priorities when it comes to types of input opportunities so to me if you look what I wrote look at what I wrote just a one pager that finds itself in different places where this is what we do hear some input opportunities we don't necessarily have to put the date but this is to come so we just want the community to know like this is our charge this is what we do here's some input opportunities that are to come before we sort of I I think we need to be clear about like really leaning into the Outreach element and like grappling with what I think Bernie proposed a few times in this meeting the two could be happening at the same time yeah no I agree I think the two could be we could be doing we could be doing both things at the same time I agree yeah Erica um I just wanted to acknowledge that I agree that that it with your statement Julian that the what one of the things that we talked about in our first couple of meetings was the need for um public input to um be a sort of primary source material of what we generate as as a report as a committee um my interest is in having this be an informed inquiry in other words this committee needs to be fully informed and kind of on the same page before we go out with microphones in people's faces and the the the the spirit of it is let's get out there and do the thing and I acknowledge that and I'm with that and at the same time you only get a few shots at doing widespread public Outreach before people kind of either lose interest miss the opportunity think it's all wrapped up and Oh I thought they already did that you know so I just there's a sort of um it's like organizing an event there's a sort of you don't want to wait too long but there's a sort of precariousness about the right timing yeah to get it right and it's can't be too late and it can't be too soon and that's where I think I'm at with so the the my thought is figuring out the formats is key and I feel your urgency and I'm with it on setting a timeline so that we're not just in this uh gray space forever but that we have a timeline that we work to to say on set date we're going to be in you know grath park or whatever we're going to be at a cafe with two two of us are going to be talking to people who walk by or whatever it is that we decide on but I think that uh my feeling is that it's about the the timeline at this point is almost is more important than um run out the door first and ask questions later and I think that's that's where I'm landing yeah no that makes a lot of sense Meg um I agree with Bernie and rapael and Erica I won't repeat but I'll add one little thing which is in support of the timeline if we go out with po people even know we exist we're going to get the same people people commenting who always know what's going on and since we've all of us said we want to try to find different to know go deeper and reach more people they have to know who we are before we yeah uh and I agree we should get our act together about the charter and um what's in it and what what are the different categories of things we might hear and where we're going to put them in terms of what's in our scope and and what what do we do about things that aren't in our scope and so on I think getting clear about that would be really helpful but my main point is people don't know we exist or if they do they're probably the people who are kind of very experienced it's a small teeny minority of people who are very experienced um government Watchers did we just lose Julian oh dear we lost our Quorum and our chair well let's pause for just a moment and see if you can [Music] reconnect wonder what happened I'm going to lower my hand should I text him he must know he's not connected he probably trying to get back on yeah yeah um thank you for doing that work Erica pulling that all together is terrific yeah that's been very helpful Erica I would ask that you send um copies of your your matrices to uh Athena so she can because they they're now public documents and I have to reference them in the minutes so people sure need access to them so if you could send them off to Athena um she can post them where where it's appropriate and folks can access them and they they're they're very helpful yeah and is there is there a second one that's about the output um I'm happy I'm happy to share them the only reason I didn't is I just didn't get to break it all out ahead of our meeting so I can finish that work and send it to Athena and it'll contain both great Outreach really helpful Meg if you have Julian's number you might try giving him a buzz I don't have it see if he's able what kind of problem he's having to see if he can rejoin us there he is oh okay I'll hang up you're back hi sorry um I had my computer charger in and in case for those of you who who heard my cat in the background knocked it out so sorry always it's always the cats you know is the internet so there's hi yes anyway uh so picking up where we left off I apologize for that um the basically what I heard is and I would generally agree with the the point of we as a committee need to do our Outreach but we need to have it be somewhat pointed so that we're getting Outreach we can actually work on um rather than just just abroad hey what do you think of the charter folks um and I think that I would agree that that is an important step so what I'm wondering is does anyone smarter than me here have a proposal to sort of get us from the point of here's what we want to do um and with Outreach how do we how do we do it as in when do we want to do our Outreach what question should we include in it that sort of thing um yeah go ahead Erica I there's many ways to go about this in the in the just putting out one idea in the interest of sort of like moving it forward we could just sort of make up a timeline just from the ideas that have been submitted and discussed here put something out there just for us as a committee to then discuss you have we have something on the table everyone has had the opportunity to have input we create a timeline that says by said date we want to have our first public meeting by said date we want to put up some sort of social media presence um all of the contingency factors we've already discussed are noted like who's going to do it what the budget all of that has to be figured out but we can sketch out a timeline and then put it as an agenda item for our next meeting yeah agree move revised dates and you know debate and discuss the order do we want [Music] to C I guess I could create a timeline um and pick dates that we want to do Outreach and also be more specific as in by this date we will have met um we will have created a Google form by this date we will have done this Etc and also to sort of maybe in addition I'll create a Google form sort of with topics to discuss but also I think it might be helpful to sort of have in the timeline a proposal of what actually gets discussed um when we go to these Community meetings would I guess like do we want to discuss the budget do we want to discuss public participation mechanisms do we want to discuss the number of counselors on the council Etc so um what exactly are we aiming to get feedback on um and sort of narrowing that down I'm happy to put that in a timeline as well um does that seem does that seem reasonable so you're proposing a to bring a timeline to the next meeting correct with discuss with Outreach dates as well as what um what we want to discuss and ask questions about during our Outreach Meg two two two quick things yep it seems that am I muted no it seems that Bernie's suggestion of having a review of the charter is needed before we talk about what are the topics we want to address with the public um and I strongly second quite unrelated um encourage us to work through groups that already meet so we're not trying to create new uh comings together it's really hard work to do that and I don't think we have time but to number of suggestions like go to the council or meetings the district meetings because they're already you know working very hard to get people to show up and there are and there many of these groups Church groups Civic groups neighborhood groups I've counted one I don't know 18 or 20 neighborhood email lists and I don't know if I still have that but lots and lots of neighborhoods all the the co-housing communities have email lists um many neighborhoods amers woods and um all of the uh for example at U the mill District everybody is on it you can't get access to it directly but you can get somebody who does and that includes I don't think 25 or 30% of those homes are affordable so it's it's very diverse people who live there I just encourage us to use existing Communications networks and Gatherings because starting those up from scratch is a killer and you know I've been to too many public hard to give us input meetings when you know like 10 people showed up and they were mostly the same people right we' hear from so those are two suggestions I really like Bernie's that's excellent Bernie suggestion of going through the charter and making sure we all know what's in it and what finding out what we think is important what's to to focus on before we tell people what we want to focus on okay yeah great I'll I'm hearing that from a lot of people and I I I appreciate that so I'll definitely at our next meeting it will be on the agenda no matter what um for us to have the charter in front of us and discuss um discuss what exactly we'd like to focus on what questions we have for the public Etc and it would also be good maybe to have an additional notetaker at that meeting just to record sort of what questions we want to ask the public I could do that or somebody else could do that um Rafael and then Bry yeah just thinking about just moving quickly on various like public facing documents to just let folks know that we exist and this question about reading the charter there are Charter review committees that they have short public face documents and one ask is you have a charter you read it um so that's even an ask that we could begin with and some of our early public facing documents if you look at what's out there those early public facing documents that other committees have they're just brief they're just trying to let folks know Charter exist we exist input needed um but I think having that in play quickly is really important um so I'd love to quickly move on that element great um Bernie yeah well let Raphael's got a again some good points and I I want to agree with him and I want to agree with Meg you'll notice in my contribution to the U uh questionnaire uh I listed a lot of existing groups and having done Community organizing and having to worry about contacting people in the uh Community I think it's a great idea to start with start with existing groups we have groups that touch and Amor that touch about just about everything on everybody's life from um you know from Ultimate Frisbee to access Community accessibility they're all over the place we we've got plenty to plenty to choose from and not try to make our own um let's use what's there and you know before we we go and say to the Garden Club can we come and talk to you about the charter we also need to make the point that this is not intended to criticize any individual or this is to find out how the public perceives the operation of the charter um in areas that we can make some uh in areas where we can make some some able short-term changes in it and again I'll agree Raphael that you know getting some getting Meg suggestion that we get a letter out there uh look at uh uh maybe Raphael if you have some samples that you'd like to point out for those brief brief public facing announcements that would be real helpful to just to kind of let people know that we're out there and we're working and we'll be in touch soon so yeah that's excellent I appreciate apprciate it I'll just share my suggestion then I'll get right back to Rafael um so Meg would you be willing to maybe draft up a letter um that talks about what the charter Review Committee does um provides info about our website um and sort of says hey here's what we do here's what our meetings are all that sort of thing and maybe send that information to uh The Gazette and the bulletin and maybe the Indian current would you be would you able well I'm not going to send it till everybody sees it obviously right no I understand no I understand I'm just saying would you be willing to draft something for us to look over sure okay excellent I wouldn't want to say obviously I you said to mention the parts of the CH that were interested in we aren't ready to say what those are till we have that conversation yeah so or I could make it up you might not you want no do you want to you want to send something to us to review yeah right that would eventually get sent to the local newspaper and say hey here's what we do here's when we meet give the info about us and give reasons that people might want to be involved and so what you're describing has went from information to just more of an opinion piece or you know I'll do that 800 words or so yeah that seems that seems reasonable maybe before the next meeting and like I me don't editorialize too much but editorialize to the extent that like you could say I don't know not to micromanage what you're going to say but like if you are a town staff person and want to run for Council listen up if you are a resident who feels public comment is too short listen up if you are a town counselor who is concerned about the amount of counselors Etc listen up that sort of thing enough editorializing that we can no sort of spark people's interest if that makes sense got it great EXC next I'll get it out at least uh three days before the next meeting which is December do we know when that is no uh I'll look at my notes okay excellent thanks so much I appreciate that uh rapael yeah I think multiple ways matter I think while Meg drafts a letter I'll just perhaps bring a few examples of flyers or create one for us that's shorter great send those to me too if you want me to include the reference in what I write I'm sure you'll all edit whatever draft I write I hope great you know perfect yes and um and I'll bring the timeline for us at the next meeting and we'll actually actively review the charter great um thanks for initiating all this Julian I'm glad that we're actually moving somewhere it makes me you feel good um excellent um so pre Outreach plan that's good create resources we just discussed that um do we want to create a form for issue for number 11 on the agenda brainstorming on ideas for Charter revisions uh sort of piggybacking on what Bernie was saying about actively reviewing the charter um could we maybe I could create a form like what Erica did and send it to you all to ask for your revisions and that sort of thing like thoughts about what you have concerns about what sections of the charter you wish to revise as a member just so we can get an idea um of what people are thinking Erica yeah I've been giving some thought to that and the the possibility of using a similar mechanism to what we've already um what we used in this past uh interim to collect ideas about public input and to use a similar mechanism to um collect thoughts on or highlights on committee members um sections of the charter or particular Notions about revision and I think I am happy to set something up to keep that process clean and sort of organized and I'm happy to do that once we have our initial kind of review I will put something into place based on what comes up at our December 12th meeting um I'll set something up that's that's coherent for us to collect ideas if that feels good to everybody great excellent yeah that sounds great um so any other comments Etc because I think that that's a good plan no okay um so I guess moving us to our next issue uh you'll do you want to create that form Erica or should I the form for this what I was just describing yeah exactly yeah I can I can work on that after based on input uh from our next meeting yep okay excellent um future agenda planning we sort of already discussed that is there stuff that folks would like on the next agenda um I've gotten the memo for uh bringing forward a Google form a uh sort of a time sheet of when timeline for us um and then uh what Erica was just discussing and then actually actively Rie viewing the charter so that's a pretty full meeting already um but if folks want to add feel free I I wouldn't add anything to the meeting okay um I I I really want to put the charart reviewing our charge and the charter at the top okay because everything else will fall from that you know my my thing is always sense you look at what you can do that will facilitate other activities right all right so the big broad thing is we all agree that this is we're gonna do right no that that makes a lot of sense I'll definitely put that high on the list um Erica yes agreed try to review top of the list just wanted to remind us where we where we kind of started which is budget items um which we are collecting hopefully in the next week not budget not December 10th but like in the next week so that we can get that collected and and come up with a with a specific budget ask excellent awesome on the agenda okay Meg no okay I just was no no problem my hand around no I was gonna wait for the next next agenda item visioning sessions uh this was just a thought of basically what Bernie was saying I was sort of had a very similar idea of let's actually get into the charter and review it and envision what we want to see so we've sort of already covered that point if if you will um and that's similar to what we'll be doing at our next meeting uh topics not anticipated Erica you had something and then Meg Meg do you want to go ahead yeah I'll be S try to be super really one minute um okay I'm C I don't want to discuss this now but I want to put it out there sometime the extent to which we're open to hearing ideas about things that are not exactly in the charter but they're either the culture of the council or procedures that they've decided to adopt like anybody can in discussion once a meeting I think or that's in the charter that's in the charter um that well some things that aren't like whether the town Zoom account that doesn't allow participants to be seen is it so the things that are administrative that are part of the culture that are part of uh things that are done to be efficient are those things that we want to talk about or or not and again it just occurred to me sometimes so that's all I just want to I'm not sure what to do with all that stuff yeah no I think that's a good question the right to postpone is in the charter but the other stuff you mentioned I think is great to sort of like it's intersectional with what we're talking about even though it's not exactly um it's not exactly our charge Erica uh what I wanted to say was this is not this is not an item necessarily for committee discussion or vote I just wanted to acknowledge for the record that this is the first time this committee has convened since the national election that happened last week and I wanted to have it sort of on the record that that's part of the context in which we're working and that the work of this committee as I understand it is very much about the me the sort of mechanics and the sort of ideals of a democratic consensus building system of government and that feels very different this week than it did uh the last time we met and I just wanted to um say that out loud and have it on the record and I believe in the work that we're doing but it feels different um and I think we'll continue to feel different as we roll on into 2025 and I'm I'm just saying it out loud glad to be working with you but the the the context feels a little a little darker I agree I think it think it certainly feels more tense at least to me um yeah thank you for that yes um thank you other topics before we I before I move to a Jour no okay um I'm gonna make a motion to adjourn second excellent um Erica you're first on my screen yes Meg yes Bernie yes rafhael yes okay we are officially adjourned thank you so much for all your help Athena I appreciate it thanks everyone thanks everybody thanks everyone good night