##VIDEO ID:Q1KZOrXXuSw## okay we're all set yeah I'm going to call the town Services Notre Committee of the ammer Town Council order for October 10 2024 and uh it's at 10:00 in the morning which is the posted time thank everybody for being prompt and uh being here um and uh I will I want to note this meeting is being conducted by remote means members of the public uh who wish to access the meeting can do so by Zoom or telephone and uh attendance to members of the public is permitted at all meetings but uh this is a virtual meeting and uh so there is no in-person presence and I just want to confirm uh for U is usual practice for open meeting law purposes Bob hegner can you hear us I'm present Jif for tab yes okay and uh we're expecting councelor Lord um I don't know if uh uh Lynn wants to text her just to make sure that she's um really planning to join us uh Lynn is in the meeting today um not as uh a council president uh but she has uh offered to help with managing the media purposes um she is marked as host um for just so everybody knows um Athena's uh for personal reasons been unavailable last few days and uh we're all just plugging in uh to make things work and uh that's uh by uh we have the ly taking over that role which Athena would normally um perform and uh I apologize that there was a uh because of all of Athena's absence there was problems uh getting the packet um posted as early as we would have liked um but is posted and available to the public so um with that being said um I want to see if there are any members of the public that would like to comment on any issue that's relevant to the committee does not have to be an issue that is on today's agenda and uh TR ask you to try and limit to three minutes and if we could bring Mar picky in the room um first and then Jeremy but Maria first since she raised her hand first and good morning Maria hi Andy thank you um I I I know that you guys know this but when you let us in as panelists we blank out for like we get like dead air so I I'm I'm hoping I'm starting to speak at the right time you you are uh can you hear me I can thank you so much yes it worked perfectly this morning great great hi um I'm Maria Kiki I live in South ammer uh thank you for letting me speak uh I want to talk about the uh Road uh changes proposed for uh Southeast Street um in front of the Fort River School uh it I've read the material and it looks like roundabouts were the only solution the Consultants were asked to develop and I have concerns about that uh from the report by CDM it says quote roundabouts were selected for analysis at the locations noted Bel as a preferred Improvement alternative along the corridor because roundabouts facilitate left turn movements well and are often able to accommodate High higher traffic volumes than traditional traffic signals um the primary concern I think for these Road improve improvements should be the safety of the people using these particularly of pedestrians and bikers given the proximity to an elementary school as well as housing for a number of residents without their own Vehicles this must be power if other Solutions are better for these populations that don't involve roundabouts they should be at least evaluated if not adapted I would rather see some cars have to wait a few more seconds than put children and adults at risk trying to navigate these intersections I was also concerned because it looks like critical stakeholders and advisers do not appear to have been consulted prior to this study being commissioned it seems illogical that Tac uh uh including individuals there who have knowledge and experience with safe roots to schools were not part of the process well before this point the input of school staff would also seem to be crucial as they have the responsibility and experience of helping users of the school safely get to and from the campus targeted Outreach to these and other local users including residents of nearby apartments also seems wise I hope this body will require a robust vetting process now and if necessary demand that other options be explored finally uh the cost and funding of this uh and other options should be considered early on there is apparently interest on the part of at least some counselors and the town manager to try to use school project uh debt exclusion override funds to pay for this project but when people voted to authorize increased property taxes for the school and the site I very much doubt that they thought that that money could or should be used for traffic improvements it was never mentioned in any materials or public discussions and uh the fact that the bids came in under budget is fantastic but whatever savings remain after the project is completed should benefit the people who live in town by way of a lower tax burden trying to find a slippery technical loophole to use that money for Road improvements does not feel respectful or honest I am guessing that the vast majority if not all of the voters who voted for this project thought we were approving increasing their taxes for a new school and improvements to the site full stop thank you very much Andy for the time thank you very much for your comments we appreciate it um Lynn if you could bring Jeremy in Jeremy good morning good morning thank you uh so much for having me Jeremy Anderson 34 High Point Drive in emerest and uh similarly I I wanted to comment about the Road plans for the Fort River School um and just wanted to ask Tso and Town Council Town manager moving forward um this this summer I I had the opportunity to serve along with uh Tac member Chris Lindstrom as a fellow for the national walking College it's it's a group that promotes walking biking rolling safety uh in communities learn about some of the you know historical and um engineering sides of of traffic safety as well as advocacy to to help kids and and everyone in our community have have safe routes uh throughout the entire Community um and and one one thing that came from that that course uh was was we had a a a project and I chose for our project to work on the Fort River School uh intersections knowing that this was something that was coming up and and throughout this this you know throughout the summer uh Chris and I have have explored options that would make this intersection friendly for B bists uh for for walkers for for people who are are handicapp and and need accessible sidewalks I'd be happy to share those plans with this committee and I really just kind of urge um our our community in general to to look at this opportunity we're building this wonderful new school for our children we could also design the the streets leading to it to be an example of what a multimodal access what what what would be a vision for for moving forward it doesn't have to solve all the problems of ammer but it could be an opportunity to say hey here here are dedicated bike lanes and look we've got students biking here are Ada accessible sidewalks that are Splat that that are you know that are don't have cracks in them this is this is promoting people walking and all of the development that's happening on Southeast Street that's planned that'll provide a more robust Community a more diverse Community for our town I I really feel like here's this great opportunity to step back and say okay we've got this great report from the engineers now now what's what's a vision what's a multimodal vision look like and and please uh use that opportunity going forward and then just one quick quick request as well while while we're here um the we've been talking about trying to expand the the hours for the school zones on Fort River for for Crocker farm for Wildwood and and if there's anything TSO can can do to help encourage expanding the hours that the school zones are infect current C ly they're just from uh drop off at 8:00 until 9:00 a.m. and then at pickup starting at I believe it's 2:30 to 3:30 p.m. other towns such as Leverett have an inclusive school zone hour so that means from 7:30 in the morning until 5:30 p.m it's 20 miles per hour in front of lever Elementary School we should protect our children the same way in ammer that people in lever are doing thank you thank you very much Jeremy and before you uh leave U well hopefully you're still be able to hear but uh anything that you would like to share or anybody ever wants to share with the committee um if they send them to me as committee chair and you can find my address easily on the town website for Town Council but it's Steinberg a at am.gov um I will make sure that it immediately gets to the rest of the committee uh so that um because we're very much U open to and welcoming or public comment both in uh meetings and in writing so um please send that along and with that um I'm going to turn to the next item on the agenda which is the um U we want to have about the intersection or excuse me the uh University of Massachusetts request to place campus vehicular directional signage in uh the public way and uh we presented with um a lot of uh helpful material to understand the the request um there was some discussion at the council meeting and uh there we we talked about a little bit at our last meeting um we have two people with us uh today we because today is the day we wanted to have the substantial discussion of the issue and um maybe I'll let them introduce themselves and I'll start with uh Doug Marshall who um Doug you Andy uh my name is Doug Marshall and I'm representing UMass along with Muhammad uh I'm the assistant director for campus planning I did want to mention at the outset that I am also on the town's planning board and in order to make sure I was not uh participating or creating a conflict of interest I did check with the state ethics board and uh since this topic is not something under the perview of planning board it's not something that would is likely to ever come before the planning board uh that the ethics board did not think it was a conflict of interest for me to represent UMass in this in this conversation this morning so thank you for the invitation I'll turn it over to Muhammad Andy point of order Council of Lord is with us thank you yes I did notice that councel Lord good morning and I can you just confirm that uh you're hearing us and we can hear you good morning yes I can hear you and you can hear me maybe yeah yes um so the only thing that's uh uh you didn't were not here for was public comment you were two um people who commented and uh when the recording of the meeting is available you'll have the opportunity to catch up with that if you wish thank you so much Mahan you want to introduce yourself to the group and then we'll try and organize the conversation good morning morning everyone my name is Muhammad abdal I'm a project manager at UMass campus planning and Doug and I will be uh presenting the uh or answering your questions about the project today okay well thank you um I just realized that I had taken some notes on questions that I have later but I think I'll start with let others left it downstairs but I'm going to go ahead and uh um see if there's any other body else from the committee that would like to ask any initial questions um I guess uh I'm going to have to do this quickly for memory but uh there were a couple of things that came up in the council discussion when it was at the council meeting and um one of them was uh that um it is typical that people look to the right side of the road when um they're looking at signs that um for the direction that they're driving in and we know and we noted that they a couple places where uh the sign's facing a direction are around the left side of the road uh and I was curious whether you had given any thought to that and I might start by saying that uh I was very impressed by the uh proposal I think you know uh people being able to find their way to where they're wanting to go is important the town has been very conscious of uh trying to improve its directional signs and uh understand uh that an integrated program for the university for its on purposes make sense and for the in these signs that you're requesting in the public way it's just that there's that sort of crossover certain points for the public way in the University property is really hard to distinguish and uh that that's the locations that you've asked about and and I understand that and U it was very helpful to get the integrated plan but back to my other question um have you is this something that you've thought about thank you Andy for uh the introduction and for the questions for regarding this location I think it's uh location 08b 987 which is along East Pleasant Street uh this sign in particular uh I double checked with our designer uh going back to the time when we created it that this was uh one of the smaller we have three types of signs and this is the smallest of all of them which typically carries only one message and the message on that sign says you Mass Amherst with a left Arrow so that's U it's not like really directional for multiple destinations so it has one message um on the left side is the town right of way and UMass property on the right side was a private property exactly that's that is the location we're talking about uh on the right hand side or the across the the right side of the road is a private property was not was more complicated for us to place it um and um the the overall road is uh is not is only a single Lane both ways uh it's very visible the sign is um is is 5 foot6 uh so it's visible drivers can see it and it has only one message to the left um into uh uh Clark Hill Road would take them to the campus and that's sign seven that is location number seven yeah hey do anybody thank you do anybody else have questions on this one the other one that uh came up a lot in the in in a strong statement from uh one of the counselors at the meeting was distance from the edge of the road and um whether and I'm going to ask the same question of our uh Public Works uh superintendent but uh the question you know what is there a distance that is safe in thinking about things like uh trucks or people who are driving carelessly and U two feet was what um you indicated in the material you presented to us and is um are there any professional Traffic Safety standards that give guidance to that correct I I double checked with our designer um so all our signs will be a minimum of 24 in behind the curb so basically from the edge of the frame to the edge of the curb and that is according to the manual or uniform traffic controlled uh devices uh mutcd standard um and this is the one we followed uh as a guideline for this okay other questions from the committee then let's seeing any um I don't you know I think that we're very U maybe Guilford moring is are you um in the meeting yes I'm here I just have a lot of construction outside my window oh okay um can you uh give us any indication as to whether there um sign location that we just heard about to whether you would consider for Town purposes two ft um is being sufficient distance and uh from curb and then the other question question that I would have to ask you is whether you're aware of any conflict between proposed sign locations and town signs in the public way so two feet is the standard for as as um was said is the manual uniform traffic control devices so that is the minimum distance away from the curb that or M minimum they want from back of the curb so that is acceptable um Jason skills engineer went through the whole plan and looked at what was there and what we have and what we might be putting there and we we feel these are the best sites for now okay and the only other question that I had on my list uh that is really wanting for you is um we've had discussions and you had been doing design work but uh we don't a funding for um doing a really comprehensive East Pleasant Street sidewalk um and uh to try and um make it as safe as possible for pedestrians to walk along East Pleasant Street and um is there any places that um the location of the proposed signs conflict with what you've been um putting forward as a conceptual design should funding become available yeah there's no conflicts with the the plan no okay so that said again I'll turn it back to the rest of the committee does anybody else have questions uh Bob you're mute um if you could go back to the um the diagram um the the question I have I just UR to me is uh along East Pleasant there's sort of two entrances to UMass and each one would have a signage at it and is that does that make sense in the in the sense of how you want people to go into the the campus in other words if someone is going north um when they get to Seven they're going to make a left and when they get to four in other words there's there's a potential that that they could get confused you know like oh wait a minute did I go in the wrong way you know what I mean I mean I it you know the people who live in town understand this but visitors who are new to the area you know perhaps we don't need we only need one sign you know in five and one sign at seven or something like that does that make sense I I think I understand your question uh uh one thing that is missing from the view that we are seeing this this is a map that CHS the locations uh one one thing that is that would help us really comprehend the the the the complete scope is to see the messages the actual elevations of these signs and where the traffic is coming and we did scenarios of where a v a firsttime visitor would be coming to the campus and just to be clear uh the M you know the majority of the traffic is coming from the southwest and from other locations very few people would be approaching the campus from from East Pleasant Street so for traffic driving uh exactly in the for for example in that location um where the fire uh fire department is near tson Farm traffic driving South uh we'll see it sign the location marked by number five there is one side for the um the the uh drivers uh to driving South that says UMass Amherst and a arrow to the right they will they will turn into East man Lane so that that was that would cover this group and if somebody missed that and contined driving or for whatever reason they felt that they need to approach the campus from a different U uh entrance they will keep driving until they get closer to number six this location also says UMass Amherst and an arrow to the right it's one side only then they they will not see number seven is one-sided so going to see they're just a blank side of number seven so number seven is not going to confuse them and you can you can reverse it it it is the same way for for uh uh traffic driving north some number seven going to ask him to turn left into Clark Clark Hill Road if they keep driving location number four four is going to if I'm not mistaken will tell them to to to go left yes to go left yeah yeah no I understand that I I just it just seems like we don't need we only need one sign at the South End you know where seven is and one sign where five is we don't need the other two signs that that that's all I was um that the other two signs are kind of redundant um and if I were if I were driving if the first time I saw a sign and then I missed it I would turn around probably um and go back to where I you you know in other words if I was approaching from the south at 7 and I missed that turn i' I'd probably turn around um and and go back I I wouldn't expect there to be another sign up ahead so that that's all I mean I I I don't have an issue with with the signage I just think um that might be uh a little bit unnecessary I guess the question then becomes um are you proposing that U we not recommend the signs because otherwise uh I we have to we're getting to that point where we have to say recommend all signs or not yeah I no I I'm not making that motion I was just commenting that that that that just seemed to be um unnecessary signage that's all I I don't think it's enough to to disrupt the whole project I mean I think I was thinking of it in terms of uh for example since I made the comment earlier about having sign the first sign you'd see being on the left side of the road it gives another opportunity uh that would you know so sort of because it's not a question of whether the drove past and said whoops I drove past it it's a question of whether they miss seeing it uh Jennifer yeah I would just I would defer to um you know Muhammad and his staff I think they spent a lot of time working on this so you know I that that's where I stand thank you so is there anything else uh I have comments from the committee otherwise I'm going to make a motion so seeing no comments I am going to move that um the um excuse me just have to get it right move that the uh Tia Town Services Notre committee recommend to the Town Council that the council approve the installation of seven vehicular directional signs in the public way as detailed in the accompanying request from the University of Massachusetts ammer and authorized the town engineer to make adjustments in the field during the installation process as necessary second and um that what I was reading is a motion is basically the motion from the town manager in his memor random to the Council of September 19th 2024 which was use of public by University Massachusetts am directional SS which was the introductory um memo for consideration um and uh since I don't see any the town manager hasn't indicated an interest in saying anything further on the subject look for a second Jennifer seconded it oh you did thank you so motion made seconded uh I think we can then proceed to a vote um Bob hegner I Council Lord I uh Jennifer uh yes and I'm an I so it is 4 to Z with one member absent and um dou Mohamed thank you very much for your presentation and providing all of the material that helped us uh to do this and uh Gilford for his and his staff for having provided the necessary additional information and uh I think uh we can move on to uh our next topic just just a quick note so what happens next Muhammad and Doug is that this the uh TSO committee's um review gets forwarded to the Town Council and the Town Council will vote on this at its next meeting which is October 2stk you very much thank you thank you everyone okay thank you so um the next agenda item is um qu the question that uh the intersection improvements that are proposed Southeast Street between Main and college streets and um specifically to make sure that um we have a set of uh material of of questions that we want to present to uh superintendent Public Works Gilford Waring and to his staff and to any other staff that might be involved in the process because this also involves funding um qu there may be funding questions too but to see what questions we have to forward now and to um indicate that we really have um I think several sets of the questions already and um one of them is uh that there was a um a lot of discussion that took place at the council meeting and um they uh uh that was recorded by uh the clerk of the council uh and is presented in uh one of the documents that I added to the packet so that we have that set of questions um I know that we have a very comprehensive set of questions that came in from councelor Shane who's also chair of the Elementary School building committee uh we had some um suggestions that came in from the Transportation advisory committee uh the only thing additional report before calling on uh uh Bob hegner who also has um some additional questions to pose that he's presented to me is um that I met with the um the disability access advisor committee yesterday they had not had time to really study the proposal so that um they were it was very brief set of um it was very brief discussion at the first run they may um pose additional questions U that they would like to have uh answered but um I think that their overall concern just so that everybody is aware is about uh pedestrian access and um safety for pedestrians and they were very clear that they're thinking about um people that they're concerned with as a committee and they're also concerned about uh school children coming to school and U the comment and I will just try and state it as clear as I can that um the two traffic lights that currently exist north and south of the school at Main Street to the north and col stre to the South have U very clear periods when no traffic goes through and uh people can can walk safely and whether uh what is being proposed is is not as safe for the pedestrians so that was um what um their principal comment was and their second in their question was whether there's any uh way to construct a second access to the school uh from either directly from Main Street to the North or College Street to the South um and uh I didn't attempt to answer that even though I think that I know what the answer is but um they did pose the that that was the one question that they posed so um I know that uh councelor hegner I was going to ask you because you had said you had some additional questions you would like to add yeah let me just I didn't print them out so um let me see if I can call up I think with I did send the uh um what you sent to me this morning to uh Lynn so that she would have it available if you wanted her to look for okay no I I have it um so what so I had five additional sort of questions and comments the first was um to consider uh Southeast making Southeast Street One Way North uh from the roundabout of the South entrance to Fort River the the sort of one just past Old belter toown Road Extension um up to Main Street um now that would require the roundabout on Main Street to feed into the old Southeast Street which may not be compatible it may not be possible possible to do that um which is that's already already One Way South although I had North in my comments um um so that was one thing um and again kind of to Echo the concerns about U pedestrians and bikers um could we do h a path we have the the new development on B Belchertown Road and it's pretty close to the the new school and so could we put a path through there so that anyone coming down or biking or walking North on belter toown road can just go in that way and avoid Southeast uh Southeast Street Al together and the same question is uh you know from Main Street um could you could we sort of cut a a path through there um I looked at the you know looking at the diagram that Lynn has up if you look at the the um the land that's owned I guess by the law firm uh there there is a a space there I don't know if they would be amenable to that but there's a space there where that you could cut through there um the fourth question I have is um for each of the proposed roundabouts how many crossing guards would be required to keep children safe um and I think that may be something that will take some some time um and then the final question I had is when we when we finish the development at the old East Street School which is you know years away um it's likely that children from that development will walk to and from the Fort River School um and the question is will we have a crosswork on the old Southeast Street in other words will the the children there have a crosswalk um will a crossing guard need to be stationed there um how would then the children navigate the common would they just walk straight across it would they be a path would they need to walk around it um and that entrance to the old Southeast school is approximately equidistant from both entrances to Fort River School so they'd have to if they had to walk around they'd have to choose a Direction and when they got to the other side they'd have to go left or right so um anyway those were just the questions I had and I don't expect that they need to be answered right away but no no that was not the intent the int was to put the questions together so I don't think they have to be answered um I I I um sort of interested in observing that uh what you're proposing and what the AAC was talking about has some similarity because they were talking about access from directly from College Street and from Main Street that would or beler toown Road whatever I guess it's really beler toown Road at that point uh in for uh bicycles or U pedestrians is a it is consistent with what they were talking about in yeah their discussion and um I also want to just note that I too had thought about the question of whether you could make old East Street old Southeast Street uh one way going Southbound and then having it merge back into U belter toown Road at the traffic circle where it would end anyway um and so that I think that you and I sort of come up with a similar concept idea uh Jennifer yeah thank you so I actually I hadn't thought of any of this I just don't have that kind of a brain but I think there's some excellent suggestions in there you know including looking at the one way um but I and I mean I and ways for from uh route n and Main Street to get to the to get to school without having to go on the main thorough fairs I mean I understand there may be some security concerns with the school of having too many entrances but I I I think people are going to make their way using these back roads even if they're not we don't have them as official path so I think it would I very much support looking into that I mean I know I live near mlen Street and there's you can get from mlen sort of almost you can get to peace place in downtown you have to cross um on some private property but students do that all the time I mean people will find shortcut ways to get places so I I think if we can have this be if if you can access the school without having to go to Southeast Street that is um well worth exploring I have a real concern about that second the um the small roundabout and I'm want I'm hope I'm understanding that correctly that is for car pools to go in and out and the other roundabout at this South entrance is only for buses is that correct okay so the second so the northern little roundabout that just kind of seems a little crazy to me it's so close to the corner where you have the other roundabout if you said if you had a sign saying no left turn as you're exiting the school in the cars and you had to make the right and go around the roundabout either if we make that smaller Road I'm not actually sure what that's called I should know that this if that's the north then they go around the roundabout to go south I mean or if it's we continue Southeast remains two ways you just have to make the right go around the roundabout and then go South I just think that little roundabout is so close to the big one it seems I ride my bike there all the time and I feel like I'd literally be going in a circle in a circle but I to I again I um totally um I think Bob suggestions are pretty brilliant and wor pursuing that um I note that uh the suggestion that Bob made if it was feasible to do that which is what um we'd be asking for comments um in a future meeting about the more presentation but it would eliminate the second the need for the second traffic circle because people could only be making right turns in in and right turns out and would then have to you know if they want a reverse Direction use the larger traffic circle that would be built up the which is the one that is being indicated now at Main Street uh the uh other things that I'm concerned about with the smaller traffic circle and really both traffic circles is uh knowing that U buses and school and public buses and trucks emergency vehicles need to get around those circles and how big do you have to make them and um would would they would that small traffic circle need to be larger and it really puts it very close to the other traffic circle uh I think that that's I was trying just to conceive of that and to get some comment on that um from staff when they make the presentation uh Bob yeah I was just going to uh Echo your comment Andy that that I think if you made um East Street Southeast uh One Way North you wouldn't really need that Circle there at the other at the entrance there because you you'd have basically people making a right turn into the school or going past it and and a right turn coming coming out of the school and it is a little bit you know you're making it a little bit more roundabout for people who want to go to the South um coming out of the school but you know it's you know there's plenty of places um in Massachusetts where you have one-way streets and you have to go around the corner in order to to to to turn around so um it's it's not I I don't think it would actually be it would actually probably with with the roundabout at Maine it would probably go faster than having to make a left turn um coming out of uh Fort River um that would be you know that would be problematic I would think so anyway it's a just something to consider yeah I I I appreciate it and I mean I've thought about it and I looked at that intersection many times because I drive that way quite frequently uh there's question of uh whether you can do it without land taking from um the building on the right side as you're coming towards Maine from Northeast Street and uh where the ammer glass company used to be located um right right in there you or whether you have to take large section of the common um that East Street common is a um is Town land but I believe but it's still um and it's within it's part of the public way so it is a question as whether professionals think that that's a feasible concept and that's what we're really asking Jennifer yeah so I just have a question I H I drive down um Main Street like all the time I have never made that first right onto that little Street I didn't actually so um is that a wide enough street that that could be if we were to if to think about the one ways it's already one way right but is it um so it's can it could it an increased volume of traffic I'm just I guess I'm asking Guilford is that I always thought of it just like a little road not it's it's wide enough for two-way traffic or it has parking now and oneway traffic so it's more than but if you kept it one way going south because if you made that section of Southeast one way going north so my other question is if if we consider that having Southeast Street going north be one way and then that what is that called that I think it's actually called Old Southeast Street okay so old Southeast Street goes if we have goes if it goes One Way South so you'd come out of the school if you're a carpool you come out of the school you make a right you go around the roundabout on Main Street and then you'd have to make a left-and turn onto Old Southeast Street would would that really bottleneck traffic making that left well what what I was proposing was that that roundabout would feed into in other words you you it would be part of the roundabout would be one roundabout okay I don't even know if that's feasible but but that's that's how I would conceive it you know if you if you think about the roundabouts down by Atkins you know they're they're kind of like like they kind of like go around they're not right they're big they're big and they're they're not quite they're not all circular um Paul would it be okay if Guilford DPW looked at all these options that you're raising so it might be worthwhile for Guilford just to away in on some of these things um because they looked at a lot of the traffic considerations and he can also probably talk about access from Main Street um I think it's still Main Street there and um and belr toown road as well okay I no I know Gilford had his hand up already but you're the boss so I went to you first Gilford so my my only concept was my understanding is today you're just trying to pull all your questions together um when you have your next meeting I would really really encourage you to meet in person and we can bring a big print out of what we're proposing here and everyone can point and touch and we can actually talk about it and show things so that um it makes a little more sense the one thing I mean Zoom meeting Zoom meetings are great don't get me wrong I love them especially at night uh but uh this is one of those things I think everyone needs to stand around it and look at it and be able to con visualize better what is being said to each other so that's the only thing I would say is if you put all your questions together today when we have the second meeting please let's make it in person yeah well thank you for that suggestion um I just want to note that the way the agenda is constructed we're going to talk about what you're just uh raising in um when we get to Future meeting schedule and agendas um and that's where we will need to also talk about the the idea of a future TSO meeting that is combination with Tac and daac which is something that the town manager recommended to us um in order to make this a more efficient process uh for everyone to just have it all be in one meeting uh and so that we'll we'll we'll get back to that question a little bit later but thank you so at this point um I think we're uh we have a set of questions Bob is added to and refine the questions and I'm going to put in even though they're not in writing yet um what was said to me yesterday at the daac meeting um and uh I think that the other questions um were uh that I had and I think the we were aware of um is the question of the funding and um timing and uh those are just ones that will need to be answered and whether U Finance director needs to be involved or not isn't matter for the town manager to decide um in order to explain what the funding options are to and whether that should be the concern of the council or whether and other issues were raised including an issue raised during public comment anything else that people have because what I would propose to do is to take everything we've received and make it into a comprehensive single document and U possibly just get approval at the next meeting and then uh in the meantime schedule um the uh schedule meeting when we can as we've talk we get to that section of the agenda so is there anything else that people want to talk about as far as information that we need in order for TSO to make a recommendation and then the council to make its decision which is what we're trying to facilitate so um the timing and you know I think the one of the things that we really need to understand in the timing question and this has come up in some conversations that I've had with uh others like the CH Transportation advisory committee is uh whether we're trying to get this work done so that it's uh done before the school opens or whether that's not a feasible plan what are we what are we working for in timeline and what are we working in funding questions so anything else because if not um I think we can move on to town manager appointments great thank you Andy so you have two sets of appointments the first is for the community safety and social justice committee um so I have two names that I have appointed subject to your approval one is Eric padan Erica is currently or was the co-chair of the affordable housing trust and has been a public in the world of Public Health for over 30 years um she uh has been an active member of the community she's very passionate about wanting to serve on the CSS JC um she self-identified as a woman of color with a very diverse Blended uh family and she has raised her family in her children in amorist um and she's very interested and had a really Lively conversation with members um of the committee um who of the interview team about um her interest in being more inclusive in the conversations the other person is Angelique Ferguson who is a student at the University of Massachusetts studying political science and afroamerican studies um she has been active uh she has volunteered for a city counselor in the city of Boston and also I think worked in uh worked for a city counselor in um the city of Berkeley California and um was very interested in bringing a students's perspective to the CSS JC so those are the two appointments for that committee okay um questions says I think that I have any I'm looking to see any other members of the committee see hearing no questions um I'm going to have to do this without George or Athena who usually do this for me um would you like me to make the motion give you the wording Andy does matter I think it's pretty straightforward okay uh these are both threeyear terms expiring on the same date no one's a three-year term one's a one-ear term wait a minute okay I'm looking at the wrong it's true so we'll have to make that as two separate motions probably the I think you could make the motion to yeah appoint Eric up here for a three-year term uh expiring June 30th 2027 and or any member of the council committee can make this and Ang Ferguson for one-year term expiring June 30th 2025 that would be the type of motion you'd want to make okay um do you want to go ahead and do that uh construct the motion other than me trying to do it sure uh move to to approve the appointment the town manager appointment of Eric aad for three-year term effective immediately ending June 30th 2027 and Angelique Ferguson uh for for a one-year term effective immediately expiring June 30th 2025 I'll second yeah I would just offer a friendly amendment to make it we recommend that the Town Council yes perfect yeah okay I'll make that motion and I'll second Jennifer second so we can proceed to a vote uh Bob hegner hi Council Lord I um I'm an I uh Jennifer uh yes so it's 4 to Zer and uh we have one member absent great thank you the next that are um the cultural Council and there are two members one is Evelyn figeroa um who is a relatively new Resident uh of amist and an avid Arts Enthusiast she has done a lot of grant writing managing grants working with nonprofits was very interesting getting more involved in um in amist coming from New York City after um doing a lot of event coordination at a museum there uh the other is William Murray who is also WR ly new to the community he's moved here with his family a couple years ago um they are very active in the Arts Community um he's in professionally a communications consultant for the federal government um but has involved himself in the Comm by serving on the Middle School principal search committee um and very interested uh given his family that to make sure all voices are heard in the decision-making of the cultural Council okay um I guess that I'll just uh when you talked about it with your interview team was there any concern about bringing two people who are new to ammeron um in and whether there's uh a value to the depth of knowledge about what is happened in the community and um how that how that gets assessed sure so most of our communities are are well populated by people who have extensive experience living in the town of ammer we have we sort of struggled to get people newer to the community and bringing that perspective is very important um you know with Mr Murray he has been involved in the community for several years he has kids the school system um so I think even in within a two or three year time frame you get to know this the town enough to be able to um make some judgments and in terms of Miss Figaroa um you know I think we do want to hear from younger people who have a perspective on what um what kinds of arts program they would like to see funded um so you know we look at the membership and the chair of the committee is serving is um part of the interviews and so we I Look to them mainly uh for their perspective on uh what kinds of needs they have and the skill sets that they need to to support their decision-making and I assume so that since this is a nine member committee uh I was going to ask if there are any remaining vacancies I think there's one vacancy left so do um there's six people who are there who have been on the committee for a period of time uh and of course they bring their expertise so yeah there's three there are three vacancies so the three vacancies and you're filling two of them today right and so some of the people on there have been on since 2019 two since 2020 and one since 2021 okay no I think that's um that thank you for that answer answer other questions so um I guess we're ready to move towards a a vote on this uh so the motion probably on this one is to recommend to the Town Council the appointment of Evelyn figuro and William Murray for twoyear terms on the cultural Council uh effective immediately and for terms expiring June 30 2027 on second okay so it's been a motion that has been made and seconded um No need no further discussion requests I'll go through the same order uh Bob hegner hi and Council Lord thank you uh and I'm and I and Jennifer tab yes so it's four to zero with one member absent and uh that takes us think to all that we have for um appointments and the the last two the next two items I put on the agenda not anticipating that we necessarily we're going to have to allocate time today to discussion because sort of in a period where we're trying to get uh a waste huler uh uh Outreach moving and we're U looking to the town manager to come back to us with a proposal on um how he's going to be finding the consultant to uh actually do the work and what the process and funding requirements and funding plan is for that and so that we're sort of in that stage but I did want to put it on the agenda in case somebody had updates I might uh just briefly report that on uh the meeting that we had with uh District 2 uh but um is there anything else that people uh from the other MERS of the committee would like to offer in the way of updates on this issue Paul and just to note that we will be bringing a funding request to the council at your I think it's no the November meeting when we have all of our financing being presented to the council and there'll be outline for what the process would be from there okay thank you uh the only thing there was a um good discussion a very good presentation a good discussion at the district 2 meeting it was by the way it was a very interesting meeting because it was the first time that I know of that we actually uh planned a hybrid meeting is for a district meeting and uh I think there was a little bit of technological challenge at some points along the way because we don't have the technical expertise that is available when we do hybrid meetings for Council meetings but it was uh well attended it was well attended inperson and well attended uh virtually and probably in the combination it was a very vigorous group I have to say that they were largely interested in mostly talking about some other issues isues um but um there were some comments there were um there was one person who I then spoke with afterwards and explained the problem who was really interested in pis you throw being a bag system as opposed to a bin system and uh I explained the uh what we had learned from the RFI process and why a bag system um is not uh something that is likely to be feasible but uh that I would make note of her requests and uh there was um uh people who are concerned about um that we at least be thinking about hazardous waste and it's an issue and uh it was really a request that we have more days than one a year for um hazardous waste uh pickup and uh so that was the second item um there was one comment having to do with uh reducing um the cost to use the transfer station for those people who are um paying for the amount that we were going charge for uh trash pickup curb side so that people can use the transfer station for small amounts um and that we reduce the cost there um there was a comment made um because we were talking about some of the material going for combustion U and that's just a matter of uh d has several combustion sites that they um use in addition to um landfills and uh his D manages and regulates this on a Statewide basis uh but we all know that so they were it was somebody who is uh raising environmental questions about combustion practice and uh the last ment was that somebody was raising the question of whether we're thinking about small businesses in moving small businesses earlier into the process because uh especially small businesses that are essentially running out of residences and may be using bin service now from USA trucking so those were those were the comments that I heard I don't u in in recording so is there anything else that people want to report as updates on waste holler seeing none uh the last thing was whether there were we're in a um stage now with the uh transportation and parking commission charge and amendments that were being proposed and we had made the decision that the last meeting that we were going to follow uh George councilor Ryan's uh uh suggestions to the memo and uh my plan is that uh he's actually um he told me going to be uh flying back as we're meeting so that he will be back in town later today um so he's available for the uh to to start working on this again and uh I was just going to ask that as Vice chair that uh he take charge of uh picking the dates and organizing who's going to take charge of which section and just follow the procedure that he recommended and we adopted um I don't have anything else to report is there anything other members would like to had for updates all right then uh the next item we're moving along very well today which is good um the minutes that um Athena provided for September 26 and they in the packet does anybody have any amendments that they would propose POS there's no no one's uh Jennifer uh no I was just going to um move to accept the minutes approve the minutes okay do that um I move to approve the TSO minutes for September 26 2024 second G motions made by Jennifer seconded by Bob uh I'll just uh go ahead just vote uh Bob I Council Lord I I'm and I and uh Jennifer tab yes that's Bo to zero with one member absent and uh that then brings us to future meetings and agendas um I you know we have a lot on our plate it's hard to organize this right now I wish I had a better organizational plan but as I said earlier my proposal would be that at our next meeting and um that George go ahead and we ask George to work on this for uh because there we know that there four meetings that have been scheduled for the remainder of the Year November 7th and 14th December 3rd and 12 and asked George to um consult with uh people of his choosing and um propose topics and talk with them about the top about the sections of the proposal that he made and uh that we just uh uh ask him to do that and make that part of our next meetings because we want to move this process along and that's how we decided to do it um and uh waste huler I think we're going to take probably talk with Paul further about this but make sure that we uh have the committee acting as at the right point when it should and um the uh we'll have to let make sure that the chair of Finance is aware that there's a finance committee piece to this that s going to have to be scheduled but that's has to be scheduled with that committee and just have to coordinate the two um uh so I think that those are U in in our other problem is uh uh trying to find the date for u a combined meeting with the other two committees would it be helpful for us to have any further discussion of Southeast Street before we have that meeting I do anybody think that it's necessary for us to try and schedule anything before we can um have the three part meeting Bob um we probably should try to get more public comment on the proposal it seems like we've we haven't really gotten a lot and this is something that I think people will will be very interested in I mean we're having a Anna and I are going to have a district meeting on the 22nd and we're going to bring this up as an issue so the public will have a chance to to comment on at that time but at least the people in District Five but I think I think it's it's important enough uh and I think my my concern also the other concern I have is is we gota we have to make a decision on this as quickly as we can because it's going to be it's going to take a while and you know we've got the construction ruction going on for the school and it would not be a good it' be a great idea if we could get it done before the school is done or simult simultaneously with when the school opens so anyway that those are my thoughts I think I think we need we need a lot maybe we could make public comment part of the the meeting The Joint meeting but um we should we should have a a extensive I think public comment on this proposal Jennifer yeah I completely agree with Bob um I mean we I think you know like we had for Heatherstone that we maybe have a a a meeting at night in the evening like a public hearing I I think everybody well certainly everyone who is going to have a child going to Fort River and I think the extent to which it impacts traffic you know town you know more broadly people are really going to want to weigh in on this and I hope that I think Bob's suggestion about foot paths to to the school is a I I hope that can be something that I don't know if that DPW or whoever would be the appropriate body can really because I think people are going to make their way to the school um the safest and the most you know they're going to take shortcuts if they can and certainly if it's safer um so I think if if we could have those paths kind of be you know an official way to get to the school because I think that's what people will do I mean I would I can't imagine a child biking down beler toown Road or you know that that I I would try and find a way to get to the school in the safest way I could if I was walking if I was a student old enough to walk alone or if I was walking my child so I think that will happen informally so I think the extent to which we can make that a more um official sanction way to get to the school if we can would be well worth exploring well yeah so I think as you and I talked earlier Andy I think this idea of having some kind of public opportunity for the public to weigh in is really important much like you did with Heatherstone you might want to spend a meeting or two as Gilford suggested like getting into it a little bit deeper in terms of is this the proposal you want to be talking about is there something you want to change be because this is a proposal and you know you may have not that it's the final thing it's going to take some time to sort of study it in terms of you know there already is a path on to Main Street from the Fort River School uh that's um been in existence for quite some time and you know we've looked at paths from uh beler toown road to the school the and we sort of laid out where that could go um the only issue there is we have to cross a river so that's a pretty big task to cross Fort River there so so those things things those are really good ideas I think we we anticipate the same thing that people aren't going to come all the way into that to go back in but there are walking paths in both d one for sure on Main Street that you can look at right now we looked at that actually as a separate entrance I don't think it's big enough as a vehicular entrance for real um but um but the other one you know you know Dave ZX was looking at different options in terms of you know cross putting some kind of pedestrian bridge over the Fort River the river that's there that would allow direct access from an earlier Point uh like where we're building the housing yeah yeah we we have Community Gardens back there if you know where I'm talking about behind that Gulf whatever that station sooko station I think it is the town owns a lot of land back there that would we would try to cut through I'm trying to remember where Ford River crosses I I think it's a forward maybe it's a tributary I'm not sure exactly what it is yeah take the temporary Bridge from Station Road and move it there that would require not a bad idea actually build a permanent Bridge however we have we're gonna have to build that sooner or later I know before before the school is open though I don't know um would ask for a response on that um uh the idea from Main Street to improve it to make it a really visible path and U make it suitable for bicycles as well as uh well well it is now I mean there's light I think the lighting doesn't the school hasn't maintained the lighting that's there you know there's there's an actual path there that you can know that I've had I've had in person I know drove it in thinking that was the entrance at one point um so I'm going to have to walk that since Wildwood is the school in my district I'm not as familiar with the back road River I didn't know about that path so because we live on the other side so right right there's no reason for you to know it yeah so I think that uh the question the and Paul's really touched on it is uh what is the right time to do the major Outreach how far should we be in a plan to put forward do we really do we want to put forth multiple plans some of which are not gonna be feasible so what I would suggest if you can I think guilford's idea is right that if you can come together into the town room and they can lay out the papers and you can have the town engineer there everybody can sort of you can just to visualize it so you get a better grasp on what you're talking about and then you we can get the feedback from the other committees and or invite the Committees in the members of those committees in if you'd like it's a public meeting but it'd be an in-person meeting instead of a zoom meeting I agree uh I think with the uh question the we're going to have that's going to be the hardest is the timing of the meeting and that's for I think daac is going to have to answer that one but but what if you just do it for your committee our committee and Tac would not have a problem Tac feels that um and I guess I just put out to the other members of our committee uh Tech has a lot of employed members um uh who can't meet until a very late afternoon or early evening they and that's their general meeting time for that reason um their presence is really would really be helpful because they bring a lot of expertise to answer ask questions so so that we would learn from there being there and asking questions um having attended Tac meetings I can I think you're talking about multiple meetings actually Andy I think maybe one where you were this committee familiar iers itself with the with a and understand the proposal from the town engineer in the DPW superintendent and then you go okay now I understand it now let's get feedback from others that's except that I think that the uh they'll ask questions number of questions that they put forward and we'd be interested in their answers the answers to their questions I think we could derange the time for that and then uh da is going to have to make its decision as to whether they can attend a meeting at that time or whether we're going to have to do something else with to get DAC involved Jennifer yeah I think um this TSO I I'm just thinking with our membership we could be flexible to meet in the evening when Tac meets you know if we have a couple of meetings not at our usual time and it would certainly accommodate when we have public comment to be able to meet in the early evening so I'm just saying I'd be willing to for a couple of meetings to meet in the evening and not Lord do you have anything on that on the subject of availability and meeting time you may have stepped away for a moment ask the Lord did you hear no I was asking a question no it was breaking up I'm sorry what did you uh we were talking about um whether we can be flexible for a future meeting um so that we could do a combined meeting at least with the transportation advisory committee and have a really in have an in-person meeting and uh presentation with the from the DPW staff about the various options we discussed earlier and if we to do such a meeting we would need to do it in the late afternoon or very early evening and so the question is whether that would be possible for for our committee to combine to adjust to that time for one meeting thank you yes um that would work better for me so that would work well for you I think that I mean I can ask councelor Ryan but I think that uh he's probably going to say the same so that is a feasible alter uh possibility and if it's if it can work for DPW so I don't think that we have anything else than we can do to we can go to a motion to adjourn because I don't don't think we have anything else is any I don't is there anything else that somebody didn't think of 48 hours in advance all right motion I moved to a journ second all right uh Council of Lord now I can say I all right thank you Bob hegner I Jennifer to yes and I'm a yes so we are adjourned and I thank you Paul thank you for uh than support of the committee