##VIDEO ID:xiUoR3SeTxE## public com and just Guilford I was just in a meeting with Guilford so he's probably heading back to his office in town from town hall Hey so uh I'm going to uh call the August 29 2024 meeting of the Town services and Outreach Committee of the Town Council to order at uh 2 minutes after 10 and uh thank everybody for who's being for being here on time and uh we'll start we have uh a quorum uh currently four out of five members of the committee are present so let's just make sure that everybody can hear me and we can hear them uh councelor Ryan I'm here Bob hegner I'm here for DAV I'm here so um we know that everybody can hear and uh Town manager baman is uh with us at the moment so I would just like uh remind everybody that um this meeting um is uh being conducted by remote means members of the public who um wish to um access the meeting have been able to do so because we make it available by zoom and by telephone and U the uh reminder as always is that this meeting is being recorded So that um you both audio and video so just to let you know that it is there I see that um and I asked Susan way to join us today Susan as we know is the um uh d uh Regional support person who's assisting U and uh communities and what we're doing so um her PR presence will be very helpful and so thank Susan thank you for being here and uh let's just see if there's anybody in the public who would like to make public comment um we always start our meetings by offering the opportunity and I see that um we have one person who's raised their hand if anybody else is interested in public comment uh please uh raise your hand but in the meantime um Darcy deont has asked to um offer comment to the committee Darcy uh good morning morning so um are we ready yes V go ahead uh good morning uh my name is Darcy Dumont and I'm speaking on behalf of zero waste ammer um we are very gratified that the waste reduction bylaw proposal is is moving forward these comments are with regard to the items in the packet which just appeared there today that I know of zero waste ammer believes that the proposal should include Universal curbside compost pickup um that is mandatory Universal curbside compost pickup because opin programs simply don't work to significantly reduce waste a universal program would have some resistance at first but it wouldn't take long for residents to understand how it reduces their cost by diverting waste from the trash communities that have had voluntary programs like Lexington have moved to Universal curbside compost pickup based on wanting to have a meaningful amount of waste reduction if folks are paying extra for the compost option they're much less likely to do it also um uh there's no need to decide whether it's Universal or optional um at this time makes more sense to get cost estimates for a variety of options if we're sending out an RFP um zwa also believes on recommendation of our D Municipal assistance coordinator Susan wa welcome Susan that all singles to four family residences should be included in the town contract including those who use the transfer station and that everyone should be included in the program uh both the huler and the transfer station um that way they'd you know with a much larger membership in the transfer station that way they' everyone would be paying a much smaller fee and by doing so everyone would have uh a compost bin where they could divert all food scraps including the things they don't put in their backyards uh meat fish Dairy eggs all dirty paper and compostable containers of which we have many in ammer and potentially yard waste and they'd be able to use the transfer station also including recycling hard to recycle materials like mattresses and electronics which they um many residents can't do now unless they pay an additional $125 so all residents would have all the services and um zero was hamers fears that offering the huler program and transfer station as separate option s will eventually lead to the transfer station decline um and we should at least not foreclose the option of doing that so otherwise the presentation looks great we thank councilors Ryan and to for their work on this and counselor Steinberg for his work on a potential schedule uh the questions from counselors we just saw about five minutes ago but zwa has pages of answers to questions that have been asked by counselors over the last few years and lastly we would urge the town services and Outreach committee to be the entity to conduct the Outreach needed on the proposal thanks very much for your time on this thank you for your comments Darcy those um very helpful so um I don't see anybody else in the audience who's raised their hand for public comment I'll give it one more moment um if I don't see anybody else raising their hand then we'll conclude the public comment has been completed for today and um move on to next item and ask the town manager to present the um recommendations the appointments that he's made uh that need Council um action on Council and aging and and uh energy and climate action committee thank you Andy so the First isit csil on Aging we have a lot of vacancies on the Council on Aging and these are the first two that we will be coming forward with as we continue to solicit membership um the first person is Emily Kim uh Miss Kim is a student at um ammer College um so I'm putting her putting her forward as a one-year appointment um but she has been working with seniors for a very long time um even though she is a college student since um where she had early on even as a high school student had volunteered and no one di as a hospice worker in a no one dies Alone um uh situation uh program uh and as part of a death With Dignity advocacy initiative and so she's been and she's uh been taking CL she took a class on with seniors and has worked with the senior center so she's very familiar with the senior center and will continue to participate with the senior center we really appreciate her perspective and the diversity she brings and so we're very excited about her uh engaging on the council uh recognizing that could be just for for a year but I think that would be a benefit and the as does as to the uh Council chair and the director the second person is Trisha Montgomery who is uh a longtime resident of the Town who is an attorney has a master's degree in Elder Law and estate planning um has done an enormous amount of work um in the area of disability but also with seniors uh has been the Ada representative to the higher Valley Transit Authority Advisory Board was on the board of directors of stavra Center so um she brings a real strong um skill set to the council as well as well so these are those are those two and do you want me to just move on to the next set Andy yes am I don't you and then we'll ask for questions about any appointments okay so the next says for the energy and climate action committee and we have two people who uh I put forward for you and there are three vacancies on this committee as well uh so the first person is Caitlyn Davis uh Miss Davis is a landscape architect uh Masters in Regional planning from UMass she works for an environmental consulting firm uh right now uh that's based that has an office it used to be headquartered in Amis but then got bought out now has it just has its Offices here um and she has also served on a sustainability Committee in her hometown of Princeton Massachusetts previously um and she's um wants to be more involved with the um Town governance and uh is excited to be volunteering her time for this and the P other person is Andrew liing liing I don't really know how to pronounce his last name but um he volunteered uh he he's a person who moved here uh during the pandemic like a lot of people did um has a young family ex beginning to get engaged in the community as that often happen Happ s when you're when you start to settle into a place and you have a young family and uh was uh interested in being on the energy and climate action committee because of his interest in the environment he is a a software engineer um who works remotely so he's in town a lot and very available to serve on the committee um so those are the two appointments for the um uh ecac y so thank i u next uh want to ask if there are any questions uh from members of the committee and city counselor Ryan had his hand up but uh Jennifer oh I just wanted to you they all look like terrific um candidates I I wanted to ask for the Council on Aging would this will adding um appointing to now allow them to have a quorum yes it will okay no and I thought I was I was didn't know when it said senator for um for the Amis college student I thought maybe that was a faculty advisor I was like but so that's I think the Council on Aging would really appreciate having a voice from that generation so and she has attended me one of the questions we always ask have you attended me and she has attended uh Council and aging meetings so that really indicates an interest yeah thank you so councelor Ryan do you have motions yes I'm prepared to make a motion Andy um if if that's appropriate um I was going to start with the Council on Aging and I was going to move to recommend the Town Council approve uh the town manager appointment of Emily uh Kim to a one-year term that would expire June 30 2025 and uh to approve the appointment of Trisha Montgomery for a two-year term that would expire June 30 2026 second okay so we have a motion that has been made and seconded uh there's any other anybody who has discussion they can raise their hand see seeing none uh proceed with the vote uh councelor Ryan hi councelor hner hi tab yes I'm a yes we have four to zero with one member absent have another motion uh yeah I'm prepared Andy to make a second motion um this time I would move to uh recommend that the Town Council approve uh the appointments of Caitlyn Davis um for a three-year term um and for uh to expire on June 30 2027 and Andrew linong for a three-year term to expire in June 30 2027 this appointment would be for the energy and climate action committee second there's been a motion that has been made and seconded uh hegner has seconded it and um no hands go up with for discussion seeing none then uh councilor Ryan should we start with the vote hi uh Bob hegner hi Jennifer tab yes I'm a yes so it's 4 to zero with one member absent so I think that takes care of the um Town manager appointments that have been put forward and the next item which I think is going to be the one where we're going to probably spend the most time is to um proceed to get back to the waste holler bylaw uh program bylaw and um try and move that discussion along as you know um where we are with this process is that the committee uh recommended to the Town Council that uh Council asked the town manager issue a request for proposal um and uh that um we had we made one presentation to the council uh Council posed a number of questions which we have been working on responses to and U the um plan now is to try and get this back for the September 9th meeting um so a lot of the material that has been added to the packet um has been developed um one was that we had asked councelor Ryan to give some um do some work on uh the the written report which would initially Encompass the last meeting and could be amended to add um the discussion today but at least to get us started um so that was one item and uh the other was to give some thought to the Pres ation that would be made so um that was part of it and then I added some um pieces that uh are also there so we had four things that were presented the other two was the schedule and how we could move this process forward and sort of come up with a time line that would get us to an implementation if the coun ouncil chooses to do so which would be done really in a series of um consideration because this RFP is to generate information and to start the process going if we choose to implement we're prepared to do so uh so that was part of it the other thing that I ended up doing um it if the committee finds is helpful um item is uh to try and see if we could start summarizing what we can answer right away in the questions were posed and what we need um the RFP in order to be able to answer so those are the items that are before us today and um I think we should probably start with uh what councilor Ryan has put forward and uh um do you want to start by uh giving any in introduction uh Andy just do you want to begin with it the uh report to the council do you want to spend time on that um uh and then go to the uh presentation draft I don't what order do you want to work in what order does do do does the committee want to work in yeah people have had a chance I think to see the draft for the uh the July 25th I think it's July 25th meeting and I guess the first the only thing I wanted to say was none of this is written in stone so if you have any changes uh I just you know so uh uh Corrections changes additions um so if we want to start with that just briefly if there are any thoughts on that and then we can go immediately to the presentation um and then I guess we could go on to questions uh that you did and then the schedule I think that makes sense is uh start to see if there's agreement uh on that Jennifer yes so I just want to thank George and I did um during public comment uh George and I were acknowledged for the presentation George did the presentation I think it he did a great job so I just don't want to take credit uh where it's not deserved so thank you George so is there any thoughts about the uh uh what's been presented what George did which was extremely helpful was to get us started with summarizing the last meeting and the discussion there uh Bob yeah I think both the uh the the draft uh presentation as well as the Q&A uh document I'd like to see a little bit more explicit handling of yard waste because I think yard waste is kind of dumped into recycling in some cases and some cases it's not so I think we should be more explicit about what we're proposing for yard waste you know for example in the the Q&A question two how do we handle our waste hauling policy now you also at the transfer station you can also dispose of yard waste so but it's not listed there and I don't know that we have any the the huler the license huler USA has any yard waste uh option no um the reason I'm pausing is is that I think Guilford is joining us I wonder if it would be helpful to have the yard way discussion um when he is here uh because um as no as as I uh put forward in the proposed answers to the questions um yard was now really and you you hadded this in the way you framed the question to begin with um is really about leaves and um and bagging leaves other yard waste um there is no other um there is no home pickup option available and uh the yard waste has to go through the uh transfer St transfer station um Susan you yeah I just wanted to pipe in about yard waste there are different kinds of yard waste as you know if you use the transfer station there's leaf and yard waste and there's um more shrub like Woody stumps and branches and and um that kind of debris and so typically when a when a curbside program includes yard waste they're talking about the smaller yard waste the leaf the leaf and um and Lawn clipping type yard waste so it would not include the shrubby Woody material that um is collected separately and and that um so I just wanted to make that clear um or at least to put that out there um I also wanted just to uh I agree with um I I don't remember who it was that said it but um you guys have done a really amazing job analyzing the concerns and issues that are going to come up and I uh my hat is off to you I think it's really important when you're making a big change like this to consider everything and you guys are doing a great job um I did want to comment about the um on George's document which was excellent uh under why and RFP I I want just to explain some of those questions are not going to get answered by an RFP because the the town needs to decide what they want what an RFP is going to do is give you pricing so that you know even if you want it how affordable is it going to be right so clearly the cost of the consumer and the cost of the town is going to be answered by an RFP but questions like who's going to handle enforcement um customer service complaints we want to listen to uh haulers because they have a lot of expertise and experience with this we can also listen to municipalities that have SI have these systems in place already and learn from them and then ammer needs to decide what they want and what an RFP is going to do is going to uh help us understand what those wants are going to actually cost so I just wanted to clarify that um that that we we're not going to ask or you you're not going to ask the haulers who's going to do this you guys need to decide that and ask them what it's going to cost for them to um uh do your wishes to heed your wishes um based on your knowledge of other communities that you work with in Western Massachusetts such as your service territory or from what you've heard in other parts of the state is yard waste um ever U included within the curbside programs and yes it is I can run a report on on that kind of information and and share that with you um we can look at those of the 24 communities that have some kind of curbside composting which of those um include yard waste and then which ones without composting also include yard waste that's something that we can easily come up with for you uh Bob oh sorry I didn't take my hand down Jennifer yeah so we um contract with USA huler and so I think it's a couple of times a year when the town picks up the leaves and they provide the bags so we always have many bags but on a week- toe basis as we have small amounts of yard waste we have a small yard we we just throw it away and they pick it up but I always feel like it should be composted so I guess it's kind of my question the sort of small stuff you have week to week that now it doesn't go in recycling we just put it in the regular bin that could be part of composting Susan I wanted to explain that yard waste is a wasteband item uh it is banned from disposal and incineration in the state of Massachusetts so if people are putting yard waste into their trash they should not be they shouldn't be doing that um I also wanted to add that uh municipalities that have yard waste built into their curbside collection contract it usually is H they have B they have yard waste days or bulky waste days during certain times of the year during which the haulers will collect a spe make a special collection so they they might have a a bulky bulk waste day where people can put bulky stuff out on the curb and the hauler will collect it or they'll have um yard days where the you know similar similar kind of stuff I also just want to explain that the yard waste or Leaf waste collection that Jennifer mentioned that's actually a DPW thing that is done so that's a service that the town provides not the individual haulers but there are some municipalities that have their curbside haulers collect the material it's just you just have to pay for it so I just want wanted to make that distinction right now that leaf program is provided by Guilford and his team at the DPW and um in other communities that's either they don't have one or they have to pay their curbside hauler to collect the material bener okay so this is yeah because it is the town that provides that we always put it in our newsletter and people really take advantage of that I think it's twice a year the town picks up the leaves so Susan I will stop putting and he leaves should not go in my but but it raises the question that the hauler is picking it up which they should I mean I guess they obviously just don't know so this would so I guess what I'm saying is moving to a new system it would ensure we could ensure that that what is going in the trash cans is only what belongs there right um um we have inspections of transfer St and incineration Facilities um the state only has so many inspectors although they hired um a number they hired some new some more but um what happens is uh as loads are dumped uh they are in they can be inspected based on the schedule of where they are that that day so that's how wasteband um issues are identified um lately there's been some issues with tires um which are also a waistband item that have been uh we've been getting a lot of tires at incineration facilities and stuff so they're doing work to identify where those are coming from and and address that um but I I also wanted to say back to the leaf program that Guilford and his team do I wanted to explain that um it's actually really awesome because farmers and and uh composters will actually collect the leaves before Guilford um guilford's Team um often often will collect leaves before guilford's team even has to do it so it's kind of a cool thing in a way because there's some sharing involved um our farmers and composters will scan neighborhoods to find who doesn't have a lot of oak leaves and they will help themselves to bags of oak leaves for their their composting needs Guilford will have a better understanding of um how many leaves are actually not picked up but I know that in my neighborhood when people put their bag leaves out they often disappear before the truck even comes around to pick them up so again not sure what percentage that is but um it it's a a nice way to get yard waste reused instead of having to be um processed so this this is helpful to me I'm just going to jump in if I if you uh don't mind because uh for me the task is going to be to revise this document so that it reflects a the facts and so what's being pointed out to me is that under the current system there's some things that need to be added to make this as accurate as possible um so uh for instance mentioning the fact that the town picks up leaves um and that you can bring yard waste to the uh you know branches and such that just needs to be mentioned many of us know that but it needs to be in here and it's not at the moment um with yard waste uh like flowers and and and and and weeds and things like that that also is banned I mean what what is it anything that that comes out of your yard should not go into your and that should be mentioned as well so I want to put that in but does that anything I mean yeah I'd have to look I can if you give me I can look it up um I I have always just um considered yard waste but I'm sure that there some more specifics to that George let me see if I can pull it up while you guys are talking okay um and I think also the discussion at this point uh makes clear and Bob's question earlier makes clear that we we need to make some decisions um I'm not sure we can make them today but we should start thinking about them um and at some point we're going to have to make decisions before we go to an RFP and so that also gets into the process here um we're hiring we're going to propose or I think we're going to propose that the Town um hire a consultant to craft an RFP um would it be during that process that some of these decisions could be made by the committee in consultation with the consultant or is the consultant's job essentially simply to craft an RFP once we tell the consultant what we want um so that's a question I interrupt to note that um we need to look also at the schedule that um I had put together in possible dates but um what I was thinking as I was doing that was that if we develop a as a committee a draft bylaw and then ask for um the council to take a look at it and see if um they have any comments on it it's not for adoption but it's the beginnings of a working document ment and to make sure that that's early enough in the process that it precedes the issuance of an RFP so that um we would have um the start of something that gives that guidance but it wouldn't um be work that we would need to do as a committee um that would sort of follow um Council um direction that they want to go forward with the RFP the reason that there's a time lag in there is that um and this was uh came from consultation with Paul that if the council agrees that we should issue the RFP that then um funding for the consultant becomes um something that he has to include in the um process of once free cash is certified that some money becomes available uh for the consultant because it is not currently in this year's budget um and so I was trying to make all of that fit together I know follow a few of anything you want to add to raise your hand otherwise um we um go back toh Bob yeah I'm glad Guilford is with us now because uh back to the question about uh you know the what's accepted at the transfer station there's a sort of a separate pile for leaves and grass clippings but people put all sorts of stuff in that they put flowers they put Vines they put all sorts of things in there and Guilford I is that acceptable is that okay um or should it really only be leaves and grass we try to keep it leaves and grass but if there's a small amount in there we're okay with it okay anything else uh Bob no that's it I just wanted to mention that that you know whatever whatever rules are there people are going to go around them for convenience I looked up the waistband in um specifics and it's leaves grass and brush that is the brush has to be less than 1 in in diameter so any of the real Woody heavy stuff is not part of the waistband it has if if it's it's a branch that's more than one inch in diameter it's not specifically listed in the waistband it's essentially it's easy stuff that's easily composted right so um yeah I think that it's worth noting if I'm correct and C you can help or G can help out on this but um USA trucking doesn't use the state facilities they have their own so that um when they're disposing of uh trash you're not taking it to they're using their own facility in Connecticut you'd have to check with them to find out where the final resting place is is as you may know they purchased the Agawam the site of the former Agawam um incineration facility and they're turning it into a commercial transfer station so um we might assume that they are bringing recyclables that are collected at that transfer station to their facility in Connecticut but I can't I don't know for sure um similarly uh with the with the waste you know they're going to um they're going to take it to the location that makes that's most advantageous um cost and resource-wise to them so if there's a a landfill or incineration facility that's closer that that makes more sense for them to bring it to economically they're going to do that it's not necessarily going to go to Connecticut it's all yeah so it's a question for USA C so again pardon my my dullness but I just want to be abs abolutely clear the yard waist band uh bands leaves and grass and branches over 1 inch from going into uh the less than one inch yeah oh yeah yeah yeah no no leaves and grass are okay so what's band what's band thank you is grass leaves and brush that's less than one inch in diameter so so other material is technically not ban I mean we there's a whole document on the wa bands that's you know 20 pages so we can we can delve a little deeper into it but the the short answer is what's band is leaves grass and brush that's less than one inch in in diameter okay he um so yeah Andy I don't know which where you want Oh Jennifer has a hand up let's see J Jennifer I had a question about the RFP should I wait on that till later I think we're going every which way so maybe okay can the can the RFP be crafted to request I mean it can be crafted to request different options like someone told me there was an RFP done by Agawam that I that so we could we can do that we don't have to determine because we can't I mean that's really why we're doing the RFP to find out there's lots of different ways to do it that U most recently uh there's a a style called they're calling the Alla cart style where you put out the you know a number of services that you would be interested in having and it it um can allow multiple multiple entities to uh put bids in so for instance you could make it so that an independent organization would be able to bid on just the compost collection instead of everything right you can you can craft your RFP in many many different ways okay thank you and that's what the the consultant will help us with we we also just so you know um Mast because of their work with uh with many municipalities across the state we have uh information and can direct connect I'll say connect ammer with other communities and um and the way that they have crafted their rfps um and so there's a lot that can be learned from other municipalities thank you so looking at Andy's schedule what I'm seeing is uh answering my earlier question there is time built into the schedule for us to resolve these questions um before the RFP is issued and my understanding is that if we go ahead and hire a consultant that consultant would assist us both in answering those questions prior to the issuing of the RFP and then would uh help would uh draft an RFP is that correct so that we will not be we will have someone uh to assist us in in in answering these questions adequately so that when we go to the next when they go so is that person doing the same thing they're going to help us and they're also going to do the RFP or are we hiring someone simply to craft an RFP once we uh this committee have decided what we want I think we're going to need help um and are we going to get it and and is that what this consultant can do that's my question Paul yeah I think I think the intent is for the consultant to help to create the RFP he the consultant will not be able to do that independently without in a vacuum so they they Consultants will be able have to come in talk to the council saying what do you want to put in the RFP here the and then have enough knowledge to be able to say here are the options here here's the you know background on the information you need to confirm what you'd like to put out for an RFP and that that's the goal and that's the that's the piece why why do we need a consultant because we just don't have the staff capacity to do that level of detail work that needs to happen before the the the RFP gets sent out so again Andy looking at your schedule um we see that the r the consultant would be hired in December but we're adopting a draft bylaw in November so I think we and we're not going to maybe resolve this this morning but I think we're gonna have to adjust this a bit because it doesn't seem like we'll be able to talk to someone uh help us helping us answer these questions uh until at least December um and so we can't really adopt a draft bylaw until we have that person on board and we can go through it and decide exactly what we want and that would then go into the bylaw is that is that so do we need to adjust this schedule at some point um I'm looking at I have it on my screen I don't know about the rest of you but I'm looking at it um as I speak um and I don't know if people can get that set up in front of them or if we can put it on the screen but um what it shows is advertising in November hiring in December but it also shows us adapting a draft bylaw in November and the council reviewing that draft bylaw in November um so I think if I understand what you're we're proposing we're gonna have to do all that first before we go back before we draft the bylaw and bring it to the council yeah um the one word I would be very cautious about not using is adopt because adopt is sort of is is that going to be interpreted as passage so we're working basically we're working on a draft bylaw but what I'm saying Andy is we can't work on a draft bylaw I don't think if we don't have a consultant on hand that we we're working with closely to advise us and to guide us um I think this was my initial concern a long long ago is that we have we lack both the expertise and the time uh to do the kind of detail that's required and hence we're going to need help um we've had great help from Z was amoris there's a lot of information there and uh but uh I think at this stage um we're looking for um someone to uh help us draft this bylaw not adopted but just just and that looks like it won't happen until at least December I'm just I'm just describing it could be moved earlier um you know you're right the dates you know I put in dates that seem to make sense understand but uh obviously recognizing that U they needed to be modified um Jennifer yeah no I was just um you know e echoing what George just said that was the one thing that popped out to me on the work plan was it seemed that we could not draft or adopt a bylaw before the consultant came on I mean I thought that was why we were asking the council if we could bring on the consultant and start to draft the RFP and maybe even before we did the bylaw because we didn't have the information we needed excuse me to draft the bylaw now yeah I I this is a little bit confusing um because it is kind of a chicken and egg situation so the the the consultant can only draft what the council wants it to draft wants them to draft and so the council does have a draft bylaw if that's what you adopt then that's what the consultant will build to but what what we're saying today is we don't have enough information to make to really finalize a bylaw but I I thought there was a lot of energy from the council committee to get a bylaw in front of the council um so I just think it's a um if you feel you need information before presenting a bylaw to the council then then it would would make sense to um help going through the the preparation of the RFP will Define will refine some of the answers to those questions so I guess Paul the question I have for you is are you comfortable with um depending on obviously what the council decides but um comfortable with hiring someone who in a sense we asking to do two different two things they're related very closely but one is to assist TSO um in in in in shaping a a a bylaw and secondly then to uh create a an RFP yeah and I think that the key piece to this is going to be and when we do an RF when we search for a consultant we have to Define what we're asking them to do we have to be very precise and the the thing that costs a lot of money is attending meetings so those there's always the preparation the meeting and then there's cleanup so every time that's Consultants are very wary of saying we'll come to every meeting um because they're not on a salary like Susan and I and Gilford are um so they they you know that's where where people run into it's like you know every time they show up it's $ thousand dollar or whatever it is you know right we just want to be clear about what we're asking them to do and what what the what the iterative process is yeah the um thing that we might be doing too is recognizing that doing a draft bylaw isn't just two steps there may be more than you know because we do we could begin work on the draft bylaw and then after we've have the consultant make changes to that draft um you know that's the advantage of having the draft that it's it's something that um you're working with but you're going to change and it may be that the adoption it's not just have a draft bylaw and then issue the RFB maybe there's an extra step in there the other thing that I've been thinking about in this discuss as we've had this discussion is that um we had a comment um earlier from zero ammer that the ideal would be to have um from from their perspective they put forth the ideal would be to have Universal um uh compost pickup herside compost pickup and we don't know that that's feasible uh um but we're not going to know until we issue the RFP um the reason I say that is that communities that have had successfully Universal compost have had the ability to um work with a vendor that is available to do that um in the eastern part of the state particularly in the Northeast that company Black Earth comp post um does more than Martin's Farms they are they they do have a facility similar to what Martin Farms has um in Western Massachusetts but they also offer um to pick up and um a lot of their the towns in Eastern Massachusetts that have curbside pickup the curbside pickup is actually done by Black Earth and and uh that um has enables those communities and the vendors that are working for Waste hauling to sort of separate out those kinds of functions um so that um you know the the fact that we don't have something equivalent out here may change what we're able to do uh when it but we don't we aren't going to know until we try um s do you have anything to add to that yeah I just wanted to add that I am involved with a group of municipalities in the Northeast that are um a workg group of of municipalities whose contracts whose curbside contracts are coming up for Renewal and we just actually had a meeting the other day and um um a large number of them are also looking with their next contract for compost collection curbside so this is something that is it's it's coming people see it coming the haulers if they're if they're smart they see it coming um so it's it's not something that's uh it's we're on the wave we're on the crest of the wave to do this it it's it's something that other states have done as we know um major cities have done it so it's coming and they know it's coming so even though um we don't have a an organization like black Earth that actually does collection I think that haulers understand what the future holds and I personally think that ammer would be a perfect Community to to to um as as a um Flagship kind of community to offer for a major hauler to offer curbside um compost collection it's small it's dense you know it's it's like if if a if a hauler is interested in doing this and and knows that it's going to be something that they offer in the future ammer would be a real perfect uh opportunity for them to figure things out and make it work and make it work well so I just wanted to throw that out there we're not the only Community who's very seriously looking for this as a curbside option that's my understanding that [Music] USA is offering it to ammer customers they haven't been widely advertising it but um they are offering it and that they are doing the pickup and then taking it to Martin's Farms as we understand it that's what I understand yes and so yeah but it's I it's on a subscription basis but yes they are doing it okay uh C Ryan Jennifer has your hand up I'm about to launch into um some very specific things so maybe Jennifer should speak first and then I'm gonna hey Jennifer yeah no just getting back to the Chicken and the Egg with the bylaw I would be I think we'd all be very mindful of not having the consultant come to hours of meetings that's you know we we don't want to go down that road but so maybe it was the word we can start working on the bylaw maybe the word was adopt you know I thought we could couldn't ask the council to adopt a bylaw they would ask what the cost was and that's how we got to going to the RFP first so just to put it out there if there's a way we we could start to work on the bylaw but I don't think the council will adopt it until we know what the cost of the program is going to be and then I guess just putting out there how can we work with a consultant without it being an incredible you know drain where they're coming to hours and hours of committee meeting so I think it was the word adopt that was on the work plan for November of this year that that's probably what caught my attention yeah that's got to be changed um I'm approaching this from the perspective of of our eight colleagues who've not been doing this for the last six months and for some of you for the last two and a half years um and we are asking them uh at least if this goes forward on uh the September 9th to take an action um so they're going to immediately uh point out that there are already two by draft bylaws that we have had before us um and none of them are going to be in the packet so we should be prepared uh for that sort of sense of you know what's going on here um you you had Drive bylaws in front of you for some time and now you're coming to us and saying uh we we don't we're not ready to to present a draft bylaw I think that's where we're at I'm not right but I realize eight of our colleagues are going to look at us with a certain degree of of uh well you fill in the blank um so our task on the ninth if if we're in agreement is to convince them to take an action and that action if I understand it is essentially to ask Paul to go out and spend Town money um to uh hire a consultant who will assist this Committee in shaping this bylaw uh and in issuing an RFP um is everyone agreed that that's what we're headed to um on on that on September 9th and we got to get them to to agree to do that is that anybody who doesn't age asking because I know if I were one of those eight people I would be looking at us with a certain degree of uh well you you describe what word you want to use um when we say well we actually don't have a bylaw and we don't um and but if we were to meet with a consultant in uh X number of months we would present at least one of the two documents that we currently have um as a place that we would start and we would start there um but so just be ready we need ready and we need to have our argument clear so will a question be will they how much would we be appropriating for the consultant no I don't think it's going to be about the dollar amount it's just the I mean maybe but I think the question is just going to be are do you want to spend some Town Money toh forward this uh proposal that that we are presenting um and I think Susan makes a very good point I agree with her I think this is the way things are going I think it's the in other words curbside uh composting um I think it's what we should be doing I have some reservations about mandating it um but right now as was pointed out earlier in the comments uh we don't have to decide that today we're not um we're simply saying we want to move to that goal of curb composting and a number of other things so I'd like to go back to this presentation document because um I need to make sure that you all agree with what's in it I've already making some changes to what the current system is that has to be improved um the initial paragraph is an introduction it would not be so my my thought is this would become a PowerPoint um and uh it would be mostly text I'm not very good at pretty pictures um but essentially something that the counselors can look at as we take them through uh basically what's the current system uh what are we proposing why do why should we change the current system and why do we need an RFP and then next steps um so that first section Roman num one is simply spoken remarks I would not put this into a PowerPoint I would simply read something to this effect as an introduction or somebody I don't care who does it Andy me whatever but essentially telling them this is what we're doing we're asking you to consider a number of important changes to the way we deal with waste um um and um Andy J why don't you keep why don't you lead the discussion for a minute in that direction I'm gonna have to take a break for just a second and I'll be back okay all right so I'd like you to look at that first paragraph and and uh for instance I would make a change to it right now essentially based on the discussion we're having this this morning um essentially what we're asking is that uh that we ask the town manager to uh hire a consultant to do two things to assist us in finalizing a bylaw and to create an RFP and it's not to Consultants just one so that that part is going to go out we're just talking about hiring one person um to assist us and our argument is this is the right this is the direction we want to go in and we hope that you agree with us uh curbside composting Etc um improving our waste system is something you think we should do and if you agree with us then this is what we're going ask you to to do tonight and then we're going to make the argument so what's the current system I I'll improve that but essentially briefly just just reviewing that with people because we can see even we sometimes have questions and and some confusion about what the current system is and then what is being proposed and so maybe we should focus on that but first that first paragraph are you all in agreement with me that that's needs to be some edits here but essentially we're asking for a single consultant to assist us in these two tasks and in the presentation that will'll follow we'll make the argument for why we need that and why we should be going in this direction um would that be a time maybe just as going back a few more thousand feet that this um if I'm correct in my history that this came from the Board of Health to the council so I mean just sort of framing it that way that it wasn't just something we dreamed up one day but the Board of Health you know and if you want to go back to zero waste Amherst or the Solid Waste I certainly thought about that and I at this point I've taken it out but that's the history of this and I felt for the maybe a sentence or two that so just so they know it's not to go back to the history the history you start with the recycling and refu management committee right go was meeting when Susan was working for the town of amers and uh that committee developed a recycling and refuse what was the I can't remember the exact title but it was a something like refu and recycling management plan master plan yeah actually it was it was requested by um a select board the select board lays on to the recycling refu management committee said um that we had just done a master plan um process with consultants and solid waste was not part of it so it was suggested that we do do something like that and take a look at and and make our recommendations for what we should do going forward so that's that was the Catalyst and then it did come from the Board of Health right I mean it wasn't just of Health event the Board of Health then supported its plan conclusion but you had you can't say that the board of health started it because it was supporting a plan that was adopted by the refu by the recycling refu management committee and then the um the plan was um accepted by the select board but wasn't uh but adoption was not part of the select board um action at that point so uh but the the Board of Health supported it but it was not the author of the um or cre this is what I don't want to get into okay I'm sorry I don't want to get into that but just it I understand but it be nice to say something about the history of this but you can see what happens uh it's a long and complicated it's got right and it's got lots of moving parts and any attempt is going to leave certain things out and you don't want it to be too long but I'm I'm certainly willing I have the time between now and September 9th to construct a short what two or three slides I don't know I'm trying to you know present it to my colle know I just right and my thought was if they want to discuss history fine but I'm not going to talk about it and I'm hoping they won't um but I if the rest of you say no we should say something about the history of this then I will put and with Andy's help and and you know we'll put something together um but my thought was just launch right into what we're you know why we're here tonight um yeah I don't know I don't know you can see it gets complicated with the history um that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it but it's going to be very selective and I want to make it short as possible if I do it at all I also thought I thought I'm sorry go ahead you know the other thing to recognize is that the core elements of what we continue to talk about arose from that plan they were they're all in that plan so that the question of um compost U for example and pays you throw and town Contracting those three elements were part of the uh plan developed by that committee and so my qu Andy is if people have if counselors the other eight counselors have questions about that you would be well positioned to answer them but I don't see why I should lead why our presentation should go back into the history of this um and uh if if people have questions about it you you can speak to it far more authoritatively than I can um I as I said I'm willing to spend some time crafting a short history of this but it's going to take up time and it's people are going to you know so my thought is just don't even touch it let's get right into what we're trying to do tonight and if in the course of the discussion questions come up about you know how do we get here how did this happen then I think I would turn to you I mean I have some notes but um do people want me to make a brief historical Susan go ahead I might suggest that you just you just um you just introduce it with that that um compost and waste management has been has long been a um has long been talked about in the town of ammer you know and and that's all you need to say is not new this is not a new issue and and then just move on from there that's what I would suggest okay but do make some acknowledgement that this been around for a while okay all right the other thing is um uh I I am just gonna in I may um waste often gets overlooked and and I often say that um Energy savings is kind of like um waste management and recycling is kind of like an aging hippie in people's eyes and and energy conservation is this kind of young college co-ed who's like perky and cute and um but but materials management is also climate action so um it it it it often gets overlooked uh when you look at um wasted food and its impact on the climate when you look at ways that landfills are I mean there's lots of different ways that it does make an impact and so um I just wanted to add that that you might might also just mention that as well in your introdu thank you so in the brief introductory remarks I should say something about the how long this has been around and how important it is um but not I'm not going to put it in any slide or get into the details good that makes sense to me um the current system section bro I'm just going to go through this with you as quickly as we can uh for your hands up did you have a further question yeah no I just think there's two great quotes uh we just got a second one from Susan that materials management is also climate action but I've I hear feedback where there's some concern about composting for people that don't compost and the compost pickup that we're maybe going out on a limb so I think what Susan also said before that that we are on the wave that curbside compost pickup is is the wave of the future and that we're not going out on a limb and it's been good okay so my job will be to put some of that in a couple of short sentences and I think it's important um before we launch into the the the meat of the presentation okay all right um what is being proposed um I have a problem with item three but let's I don't want to we want to get through this but um essentially we're proposing a Waste Town contract with a waste hauler um okay everyone's okay with one um these would be in uh PowerPoint I assume I just put up on the screen um and again if later after today you have further concerns or questions you can always reach out to me but that here's where I would get into a PowerPoint um and just list the the specifics as much as we can make it now obviously we've said repeatedly there's a lot it still has to be determined that's why we're going to ask for the the help of a consultant but here's the core of what we are proposing um would have a robust payer throw system how that actually would be structured we have we don't know but we want one okay uh three I have a problem here um both Andy and I looked at this but I the bylaw would either provide compost collection I just I what did I mean by that what do we mean um somebody help me here I to I took it are we do we want to put in Universal compost let's start with that or we just want to say that we we want curbside composting whether it's mandatory or not we're not ready to say yet and I don't know what the first sentence of clause means and I think I must have wrote wrote it maybe I don't know but does somebody tell me what that first the bylaw would provide compost collection bylaw doesn't provide comp anyway what what am I saying I think they were pretty well at the point of saying um compost collection is is envisioned as an essential element right something the question of universal um isn't the the piece that we still need to have some time to work with because you do get into the question if you're going to have if you're going to take that step which um that public com Darcy's public comment was uh speaking to which is universal then Is it feasible and how do you U inforce it if you do um and I've actually was looking at other towns um she mentioned uh Lexington um I haven't seen anything that Lexington has made the decision certainly has not implemented a decision to make it Universal um you had Susan had done um asked somebody within her department and I think came back with a different town which we Hamilton Hamilton which has adopted it and I can actually um send you um there's something on the MMA yeah we have it website that talked about it so this should read the bylaw would uh provide for curbside collection of compost if if I might just pipe in here for a minute I um you know I think mandated composting is is great and important and what you're proposing is a lot of change all at once so I would encourage ammer to consider a phased approach um which could certainly be delineated in the bylaw um but you don't have to go to mandatory composting on day one you can you can make it composting available or uh accessible to everyone and give them all a bin on day one but the Mandate can come a year later you know I mean or or or whatever you know it doesn't have to happen on the same day you know it's it's clean to make that happen but it it may not be the wisest Choice given all the other changes that you're talking about implementing so I just wanted to throw that out there that you have you have choices about when this happens um and and you don't have to do it all um on day one so back to the wording of three I need help and I don't want to spend too much time here but we need to just make a decision um I am sympathetic to Susan's point um I think I simply want something to the effect that um we want some sort of uh a curbside compost collection can can the RFP ask for pricing for both you know if it's Universal versus opin and I think Susan's suggestion about having it be phased is excellent I I mean I just think that would be much more it Community I mean there are different ways there are different ways to to structure it but um uh yeah I mean you could you could you could start off with an opt-in program and then move to mandatory or you could give everybody bins and it's their choice whether they use I mean there's lot lots of different ways you could approach it I think the key is that the message that's sent to ammer people is that uh uh diverting Organics from their trash is an important move for many reasons and that um and that's something that this this the whole town um stands behind so so that needs to be communicated in the bylaw and and preferably steps of how you're going to get there soon but um yeah so three is simply we are saying to the council we want some form of curbside composting and we're not getting into any of it particular particulars because we're not ready to and if people have questions about it we would answer along the lines that Susan has suggested but this should be this is item three curbside I would say what if you said something like curbside composting available is available to all participating in the program or something like that with with um with future requirements you know to F to to be delineated or something like that okay but but the point is available to all so this curbside composting available to all and then if people have questions we can we'll tell them we're working on it you know we're happy to hear your thoughts I mean maybe our colleagues will all say we want mandatory composting everybody must do it right and and I I will say available to all at no extra charge right well right because that's the incentive then right because then they can have a smaller trash bin and pay for a smaller trash bin because they're diverting but see a phased in program currently if we went that direction which is possible um USA was going to charge you for that they're not you're not going to get it as a as a one price for All you'll get they you know they'll provide curbside composting but you have to pay them 15 bucks and uh yeah I think right now all I can say is curbside composting available to all thoughts of the rest of you I mean Susan makes a good point point I'm suggesting we just say available to all she's suggesting available to all at no extra charge we're making a a commitment there a promise I'm not sure we can keep it well what if you said is available to all with additional uh stipulations to be determined uh with additional stipulations up to and including mandatory recycling to be determined just an idea there are various communities that have different approaches to this you know because I did look at the website of almost all of the communities that have um that are listed with d as having um curbside service for composting and uh some of them provided for anybody sign up some of them there's a charge to the people who choose to participate um one of them is mandatory it's sort of like there's a whole blend of Poss many different ways I don't think you know are we really ready to make that decision yet I don't think we are so we just want to put out there that curbside is um something that we need to be doing and that the details will follow will follow and that um because we're trying to convince our colleagues that that this is a key component and we don't want to get into the the particulars if they want to raise them we'll we'll talk about it but uh we just want them to agree with us that this is the direction we need to go in and the rest of the details will work it out um so I would just say available to all Bob's nodding his head I don't know what Jennifer thinks um I hear you Susan yeah no that's why we want to retain the consultant and then the RFP will tell us what it what it can be offered at different cost I want us someday to go to a system where everybody does this um and it's expected and if you want to call it mandated but I agree with you we can't I don't think we can do well well well can but is it um George are you comfortable saying that um with additional um requirements up to an including mandatory recycling um to be determined I mean I I think it it it kind of gives parameters and it gives uh you know where we could go and where we might go but no promises again I'm reluctant to go there I just would say people can ask questions about it we can talk about it but um right now I just want them to all agree that this is we want to go to this this in this direction Universal excuse me curbside composting available to all that's where I'm going to leave it unless I hear Bob yeah I I I I agree with you George um I I think if we bring up mandatory or you know some sort of enforcement it's gonna scare people off and all hell's gonna break loose yeah it's gonna be really bad um I think we need to ease into it as you suggested Susan um I think we need to you know it may be that we eventually get there but right now my you know my kind of feeling out constituents are people are kind of like as long as it doesn't cost me more I don't care what happens but um they're not ready yet to really think through what it means for for everything and this is a big change for everybody so and quite honestly we're not there I mean let's be honest we're not there okay um so that's why I want to keep it open uh can we go to item four I'm sorry Jennifer no it's okay just so the next one is the transfer station stays open as an alternative for those who wish to dispose of their trash recycling compost on their own we definitely yeah that has to be there that that it is important and the only thing that we need to recognize as a committee and decide what to do with is the fact that uh we don't know whether um eliminating the transfer station as an option so that would increase the number of households that then are participating in curbside and whether that will reduce the cost per um household and that's something that kind of has to come out of the RFP process I think sorry well one of the things that I had proposed um you know so you have to balance um in order to get a good price we we want to be able to have a good number of participants in the program so it's it you know you're not you can't make this a mandatory program it has to be an opt out type program um so you you you know uh what options you have you don't have to provide an option but you kind of you need to make sure that there's an option available to people for if they choose not to participate in this program what I had suggested at one point was that um because the transfer station is run with an Enterprise it's funded through an Enterprise fund um if we built a small amount of um if if everybody who participated in this Town contracted program contributed um I don't know $10 um as a transfer station access fee um at if that amount was added to their annual amount that amount could go into the Enterprise fund and fund um operation of the transfer station so that they had access to special items right not necessarily I'm not um and and this is something that I'm sure Guilford has um um for and Steve will have lots of information and expertise to talk about but you don't it doesn't the transfer station doesn't have to be um the run the exact way it is now so for instance you could eliminate the trash and recycling collection um you know the rec um uh comingled type um household recycling collection and it could just be a an a a place for excess bulky waste and special need needs materials right and so if you buil in a small fee into the uh the annual amount that residents pay they would then have access to the it would fund the transfer station and they would have access to the transfer station for things like Woody stumps and um um uh automotive oil and and and if you know mean like all those things that Mo many Community many households no long don't have access to right now because they're they're not willing to pay the the transfer station permit fee so it would essentially make the transfer station there for everybody or help make it there for everybody if people are not involved with the curbside program then they would have to pay a separate fee to have access to the transfer station so it was just one way to potentially um keep the a really robust transfer station ammer has one of the best transfer stations in western Mass and um it's you know does it have to live the way it exactly the way it is now no would it be a shame to lose it entirely in my opinion yes so um yeah I just wanted to throw that out there that that was the that was a concept that I had floated and I think that that um Darcy had referred to at the beginning of this call of this meeting so to make that option um to make that a little more clear that it won't necessarily be uh you know that that changes might be made to the transfer station but but that we that this you would want it to remain open what if we just said transfer station would remain open and leave it at that or I could I mean again I just throwing it out there but I we definitely want transport station stay open but you make an excellent point that the the format will take this what it will look like could be very different depending on what we finally decide yeah at the point where we can decide you're suggesting that that maybe those two so one could be it stays as it is where you can dispose it's kind of an opt out and the other would be um and then you get into the the details I'm not sure how much I want to get into it but essentially or maybe you just say uh yeah I'm looking for guidance here for yeah I mean the you know just just one more more thing the hours could change you know maybe it's only Avail open on Saturdays and Sundays for a few hours um also Guilford has um mentioned this in the past it's possible that a hauler would be interested in having access to the transfer station as an aggregation site where they could have a semi-tractor trailer of something and um you know collect it there so that um they don't have to drive all the way down to Springfield um each time they have full truck so I they're they're just it gives us options too and so it'd be a shame to you know I I I just don't think it's a wise idea to say that it's G to close or you know make a decision at this time we're certainly not going to do that what this says is it stays open the question for my colleagues is whether they want me to um add you know something to the effect that it's final disposition is to be determined but we're committed to keeping it open and maybe not get into here I offer as an alternative I thought of it as an opt out um do we want to include the opt out or we want to just say it's going to stay open but it's final uh you know what it finally will be doing is is going to be determined I think the ladder so vague just don't so maybe take out the opt out and just say it's going to stay open and uh through the pro through the RFP process we will determine what its role is going to be people okay with that I'm good with that any thoughts anyone else Susan anybody else Andy Bob Paul I'm okay with that I think the op out is important because I think we have to recognize that um one of the things we have to get to as part of this process is where we have the community engagement and if we have several thousand households that regularly are using the transfer station and you not you know our intent is not to continue that option available immediately you have all of those people are saying hey wait a minute we don't support this so we don't be honest Andy it's open it's open we just don't know we just don't know and saying that it's going to be open and it will provide an opt out option is perhaps more than we can actually a commit to as a group and B honestly commit to because we just don't know we don't know how it's going to play out as Susan points out there are a number of different ways it could go um if I write it the way it is right now it sounds like it's going to stay open as an opt out and I will write that if that's what the four of you or the rest of if the majority wants that that's what I'll write um but what I'm hearing from Susan and what I'm thinking is that that's actually not necessar the way this could play out um and we should be honest with our colleagues and with the public that this is to be determined your concern Andy is that could frighten people and they would say well I'm G I mean because I I use it myself um and so I I you know I would be concerned but Susan offers a scenario where um that would address a lot of my concerns so I think okay fine um again do you want do people want the opt out I'm saying no let's let's just keep it um transport station stays open its final uh you know role is to be determined that's just one and rest of you Susan I'm sorry hands up go ahead Bob well I just wanted to say uh about 2,000 uh permits are sold each year to the transfer station we have no idea what percentage of those permits are are from people who actually bring trash and which are not um I think a a better way in and we could probably get Stephen Guilford to um faret out this information by F finding out the number of permit holders that actually purchase pay you throw bags I think um I know a number of people in ammer purchase transfer station permits for the other services that are offered and they may already pay for subscription service but they want access to U leaf and yard waste or they want access to the composting so that's part of you know like I say we have a great transfer station so we don't know what percentage of people actually use the PES you throw program as their primary way but we could probably far it out that information um yeah I would just I I'm I'm one of those people who uh has USA pick up my trash but I use the transfer station for other stuff um and so anyway uh I I think we should if we're going to include um opting out or alternative I would say initial initially it'll be an opt out over time we don't know I mean that's just reality we don't know whether people are going to want to maintain it as an opt out or whether we can evolve the transfer station into something else um I I I think only time will tell U but I think we should not imploy that it's either going to stay op an opt out forever or that you can't use it for an opt out on day one I think either I like George's idea of just leaving it simple yeah this this is the painful process that you do when you word Smith like this but I don't see how we can avoid it because now Susan I'm kind of heading in the other direction listening to Bob listening to Andy I'm thinking the transfer station would remain open uh in in the short term provide blah blah blah blah as it's written but it's long-term uh you know uh function is to be determined well something to be con just just to cons I'm not um something to consider is that haulers are going to want the maximum number of of households to participate right so we want people to sign up for this and I'm not saying that we you know we should close the transfer station as an option to force people you know that's not I'm I'm headed but I'm saying that if you um that that the the language here is important we don't want to promise that the town of ammer is going to provide um a a a you know a perfect option for people who don't want to participate in this program that we've deemed is is um you know appropriate for the town so I I I that's why I'm hesitant to to adding that opt out I I don't know if it's the town's responsibility to provide that opt out to people and in some communities um you know a different Subscription Service might might be offered you know that doesn't include composting I would find that very hard to believe that it would be cost-effective in the long run but there are lots of different options for those who opt out it doesn't have to be the transfer station and uh so I I think just leaving it simple allows for a lot more flexibility yes Andy and Bob Bob yeah I'm good with that okay all right okay so I'm gonna keep it simple thank you next is a program would be phased in beginning with single family this is something right um homeowners associations can we get that term out of there yeah I think we do get the term out of there I think that the um answers to the questions that I drafted I tried to work that out because it's really wasn't I can go back to your answers what really were saying is homeowners association that was probably referenced was something like a condominium development Condo Association a common trash system I I really like Paul's suggestion I don't know what the rest of you thought where you would say it's phased beginning with those who get curbside service and then over the following years would be extended to those who get Dum who use dumpsters is that too simple is that would that work is that better or do you want to keep it the way it is taking out homeowners association I kind we call it condominium associations and those who use a common dumpster I mean just to I think the thought is that parb complexes businesses and homeowners associations all use dumpsters right no the homeowners association apparently amrest Woods as a homeowners association that's what got confusing okay and they they all I'm sorry and co-housing is that considered do they have dumpsters or I I'm not sure how how their trash works so maybe we don't even we just say it begins with single family and two and four unit residences and over three years expands to everybody else bands to other other uh residential entities okay expanding to other residential entities okay is that acceptable and you don't I mean Paul's idea of dumpster versus curbside service not going to go there we're just going to say as it is um and to other residential entities over three years and three years is an arbitrary number I but that seems reasonable I don't know maybe be less maybe more you could say three to five years but um you know it it's again okay we'll leave it where it is okay six uh Jennifer sorry I no at some point do we want to include businesses in well at the moment the language does have businesses okay it says expanding Department complexes businesses and uh well I'm sorry if we use uh no I'm sorry if we use Susan's language uh it's just other residential entities and so your point is well taken um do we include businesses or not yeah I don't I think we should I mean down the road yeah I mean there someone also made the point I don't know we want to get into it today but uh what about the town u in other words the town isn't really uh leading by example um Schools public spaces Town Hall etc etc um maybe we'll have this discussion when we get to uh later in the process but uh um I would almost want to put in and the and the town of amorist but anyway um so with regard to businesses I'm I'm sorry George with with regard to businesses are you saying that the businesses I mean we don't want to get involved with commercial hauling commercial trash redu reduction I think the businesses are in there because we were talking about requiring businesses to compost I don't I correct me if I'm wrong but we don't you know we don't want this town program to usurp the commercial uh uh relationships that hollers currently have in the in the town of ammer it was it was my understanding that the businesses were thrown in because we were talking about potentially expanding the composting to businesses but would they be I don't think would they be part of the residential compost collection program or would they just be be outside of that required to compost you know under separate so so we we might want to make that distinction so five should simply be about other residential entities and um you could put in a clause and businesses would be expected uh through their commercial uh contracts to also compost something to that effect that's well you know it it occurs to me wouldn't wouldn't that be a uh Board of Health thing a regulation to require commercial entities to compost that's that that doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the bylaw does it so it would be but of course part of what we're trying to do is is as as a community is make sure that this happens but your point is you can do that through Board of Health regulation um not necessarily through the bylaw so we just it just wouldn't get mentioned at all it would just be this is all about residential it's yeah I mean this it's your it's your call it's it's you guys well sponsors speak up I don't think we're ready to make a decision to move into businesses okay good so it's it's G to be Board of yeah I think we would just be mobilized maybe I mean we do want them to you know we want there to be townwide composting that's the direction we're moving in but um we're not looking to we're not looking to uh mobilize opposition because it's murky from the business Community right now commercial Enterprises are required to Source separate organic waste if they produce one ton or more per week one ton yeah okay yeah so so already they're being addressed through State guidelines and and that might you who knows it could change again in the next 5 years we don't know uh good uh then we'll leave at that uh six haulers provide an adding report to the Board of Health in the weight of tons of trash recyclables and compostables collected within amers and finally again speak up or just yell but advantage in awarding contract would be given to those Howers who would uh dispose of compost locally we need this I mean I don't really care when you we do okay good there's there's a there's a climate impact I mean it's it's the it's the heaviest portion of of MSW and so if it's going to be shipped a really long distance it just doesn't make a lot of it makes much less sense we want it processed locally if it all possible good good good all right um again trying to move along we we really time is of the essence here but why change the current system I try to identify six reasons um we can the order we can maybe there's some repetition but essentially the first is uh has to do with greenhouse gases the second is to reduce our dependency on landfills now Andy's pointed out that some of these statistics are debatable or questionable I could take the statistics out and just focus on the the core reason um right that we're we're trying to obviously we're running out of landfill space we need to address that um Organics produce uh what is it methane whatever but basically they're they're a source of greenhouse gases so we'd like to reduce that um it's agreed that the current system that we have is very unclear as to what your options are and what the rules rules are and so one of the strong Arguments for a town contracted service is that we would have more say over what gets done in our town related to waste and there'd be more transparency uh pay as you go pay pay as you throw fee structure is a best practice and one certifies people Susan please I just wanted to say that I can help with Statistics um Andy is true it is true that the um 30% is the goal that in the solid waste master plan but it's also true that um food material alone is 25% of mssw and um that a large portion of the state's waste is currently being transported out of out of state which makes us very vulnerable in a lot of ways um so um I can get the more precise number percentage I think it's more like 20% um 25% maybe that is currently being exported out of the state but um they expect that amount that n that percentage to increase over time okay so let me know if you want that info I can reach out to you for that but um used to think it's 25% at current but I can check Andy no uh I think is that the only statistic I use here I I think that's yeah somewhere I no for in number five maybe somewhat U rep repetitive I was I went back and forth on this one essentially this is about just reducing what we put on our landfills um in other words again makes the claim that 40% of what goes into landfills is Organics that includes yard waste compostable products of all kinds and food waste George sorry want George don't want do you want to say here is to segregate all Organics um you you just say collect I mean you don't really say that it should be collected separately um to segregate separate segregate separate or segregate um okay all right just something like that it just because right now we're collecting them um that is true that is true um at least some of us are you and just a comment just in FYI when we when it's when we say it's 40% of the mssw it is 40% by weight so that is even um that's even more concerning if we are shipping it distance to um to dispose you're comfortable with that percentage that that's you feel that's an accurate relatively com I can double check but yeah that's that's pretty that's that's pretty much what um what is okay um and then finally this is maybe somewhat controversial I know Paul had some concern about this um a competitive building bidding process so I write can result rather than will result uh competitive bidding process can result in lower cost the consumer um I think that is one of the reasons why we want to go to a contracted system um but do you want to have it in here or do you want to take it out because we can't guarantee it it's it's we have well yeah I have information from a number of communities in Massachusetts that show a a per household cost to curbside collection and I can it is true that what people are paying now it will be less the question is how compost collection will impact right that number right could be a wash but right Paul well I think my point is that if you're going to say it's going to cost less it better cost less or else you know because I don't think you can guarantee that especially people look at what they're paying today and then what they're going to be paying when this goes into effect which is two years from today um I just think you have to be very careful about promising cost savings unless you can actually unless you unless you say we're not going to move forward unless there's cost savings which I don't think we're saying I think because you're going to be change there's a lot of different things that are going to change so you every two week or whatever so can you're not the the word can here isn't you that doesn't meet your objection you might suggest just not putting it in here at all well it could be an increase or a decrease right right we just don't know till the market I mean the projection or the the evidence that Susan said could lead you to believe that but I don't think we're not promising it we're just saying so much variability yeah I've seen so much variability in pricing and then labor cost lately I would never go down that road thoughts of my the rest of you I think Paul's suggesting we take it out yeah I agree we should take it out I think I agree with Paul that it's we don't even want to infer or imply that we're going to get a cost reduction because we don't know I think that the point really is that uh having a competitive process helps assure that you have the best price at the time but it does not assure that it's going to be less because we're in an industry where costs are inflating for varieties of reasons yeah I think that's well put so um you could say process will ensure the best cost available at the time or we could just take it out completely Jennifer you thinking of you like Andy's wording to keep it in or do you want to take it out um I I mean I don't know if we need to put it in I think we're I think competitively that it is most responsible to competitively bid it to ensure that we have the best price we can get I don't know if we want to put that in or we just leave it out the question whether it we be competitive but yeah well you right take it out it out yeah I'm taking it out taking it out okay y an RFP um down below I have a bunch of bullet points early at be beginning of the meeting uh people were taking certain things out and I wasn't paying much attention um can we just can you just tell me what are things that definitely should come out of here um in terms of uh that that an RFP won't tell us RFP will tell us should give us a sense of cost to the consumer right we we don't know what it's going to cost cost the RFP should tell us that cost to the town enforcement however should come out complaints customer service yeah it it'll it'll help us understand cost of enforcement or potentially um no not the question is who will handle enforcement we get to decide that I mean ammer gets to I I say we because I'm I'm a resident of ammer but ammer gets to decide who's going to handle enforcement who's going to handle complaints the RFP is going to tell us how much it's going to cost if we want the huler to to handle those things so I would I would just emphas I would just focus on cost to the consumer and cost of the Town um because what additional services are available you can ask for anything and they will offer it to you at a certain price the question is is it is it affordable for the town to accept it so that it's not the existence of the RFP is not going to decide that you guys are to decide we're going to decide what additional Services you want to ask for and that's back again to my thought that part of the role of a consultant if that's where we go is to assist us in making those determinations because I know I'm in no position to make some of these I need help and to assist you in making an RFP so that that which is written such that you have a choice in in in what your final uh contract is yeah what we want I alide as a pick list right we can pick this we can pick this we don't want to pick that right stop for a second George how much more do you have because I'm trying to keep an eye on the clock now well I understand but I'm just going through the document Andy how much is left not much yeah so so I would also say U the pisy throw struct structure also we can um we can learn a lot from the haulers and what they already have but they're not the ones that are going to determine the structure ammer is okay so good so a lot of this would be related to the notion of of the consultant assisting us and some of it is the RFP will actually will give us answers to cost but your point is it's pretty much that's it it's going to be there and mass DP will be able to provide you with a lot of information about what other communities are doing and what their costs are Etc good okay so the last thing Andy to answer your question is and this is important um what we're asking the council uh to address and so I just list a series of the first question is do you agree that we should amend our current we should move to some changes of our waste system secondly should we have curbside composting of some kind or other I'm wondering if three should just come out because we're not going to I mean that's not going to be we're not going to determine that on on the 9th we just you know we're asking them to U agree with us that we should amend the process that we should it should include Cur Cur curbside composting um and then uh if you agree with us with that um would you vote to ask the town manager to issue an RFP I would drop five I don't think that's relevant at this point and I can't think of anything else thoughts do we want to just I'm sorry just point do we want to just um leave question four I mean that's a we could spend the whole council meeting if we go through all those questions well four would be a motion there would be a motion in the motion she yeah that we're going to ask them to adopt if that's where we want to go and and uh but four would basically be assuming the answers to one and two are yes uh the answer to three would be okay there's a motion on it before you um you know we're going to bring it before you and have you vote on it yeah I I think maybe I would just go to there I don't know if we have to go through all those questions in other words The Next Step would be given this presentation and the argument we made um we are now proposing a motion yes right and they may ask those questions but I think the motion is to yeah what is the motion motion is what we what we recommended months ago uh well we need to look at the language because I think at one point we were thinking of two Consultants or possibility of two consultants and where I'm at and that's just speaking for myself is we're really asking just for one at this time we originally asked for one good asked for what we originally asked was is the town manager issue an RFP and the town manager said he needs a consultant to help develop an RFP so that and it was but but the original request um that we voted on as a committee was to request the uh the council will ask the manager to issue um an RFP I think based on this excellent presentation then we are asking which really I think addresses questions one two so we're asking for go to the motion we go to the motion and I think I only my thought is quickly is the motion should include some language to the effect that this consultant is also going to assist TSO in in drafting a byw and then and so I'm not sure that language was in a motion before but that should be included and uh everyone yeah so there that's that's it I'm done so um let me just uh do one other ask one other or question is that there were two documents that I had worked on separately um are we continuing to include a um the work plan with uh as to how we would proceed through this process with uh Target dates understanding that they are be modified as appropriate to we still want that document before we go there can I just a add one more thing George to your excellent document I was just looking it over and in number two I would suggest that the second sentence be changed to read something like reducing ammer waste stream will help reduce the need for new landfills and incinerators and reduce future hauling and Disposal costs and the emissions related to them or something like that okay yeah if you would write would you be kind enough to just write that up and send it to me yep that would be great um realize you all are trusting me to make some edits here that you're not going to see um before September 9th um though I could send it to everybody just for FYI um I don't know what the rules are on this um I I don't want to present something that does not reflect the consensus of the community of the committee I think we're we're pretty much in agreement I think I have a pretty clear sense of where we're headed but you are basically trusting me uh under Andy's authority to make some edits to and then you you'll see what happens on the 9th um do you want me to send a copy of this in advance um to everybody Andy can I do that um yeah I was gonna try and wrap things up by trying to um say that that's normally what we what I have done and I think we do as a committee which is um that whoever is responsible for the um what's going to be sent to the council sends out a draft uh to the committee um people respond directly to that individual and uh we we changes get made as appropriate uh frequently we don't get comments uh but motion the motion language should be in that doc I would like to put the motion language in that document as well so I will consult with you as to that make sure I have that right so that will be included and Susan thank you and if you can send me uh and I would add you in this list as a matter of fact I think it's okay if I include Susan uh in this so she can have a look at it as well um is that okay um okay it's okay with me is if is it okay with Paul and Guilford yes okay okay so I will I will copy Susan as well and as Andy said people just send me comments directly and individually um and I will put them into the document okay um just so you know I'm going to be out of town I'm going to be on vacation uh starting on the 7th through the 17th so um I will not be at the 9th the meeting on the 9th or you know if you if you get it to me before after the 7th I won't be able this is good we can blame this all on hegner then that's right when things go south you can say well that's that's hegner he's the one who caused all this have a vacation Bob okay so so let Let's uh so we can because we have a couple other things we want to get to um the uh work plan um I'm going to assume that we're going to keep that as a working document that we go to the council but I'll again Ask for comments on it and the last question that I have is that I had started a document of answering questions do we want to continue with that document and should um if so I I will add to it and get comments if the thought is not to include that document because it's too much um I'll drop it for now yeah well I think since uh councilors were asked to submit questions they should get responses I don't know if it has to be I think it's too much to get into at the next meeting but so if there's a way of um I don't know if you can you send it out in advance of the meeting so those who want to read it can exactly yeah it would have to go in the public meeting packet so yeah and I appreciate Andy doing that he took a lot of time and he went through through many of the many group them and I I think that is important I think Susan's right Jennifer's right colleagues deserve answers if and so if we could put that in the packet in advance of the ninth um that would be good and then I will uh add add additional responses were they because I ran out of time and send it to you and get your comments um Paul anything I just need to say I'm going to be signing off I have to get on another meeting email um just to let you know where where I'm going to go is um I was going to um ask it and I'll just go to this topic right away um the West Street proposal uh the uh just so that you know because you've already seen the comments from daac um I got an email back from Myra Ross and and Myra said we like the plan for making potwine West Street intersection more accessible I don't remember whether we took a vote but there was no objection uh to the plan which we thought um and we thought it was very thoughtful so we essentially have uh and I have to I have to sign off so here for that okay so that's the other topic Paul says just you know where we're going um so uh Guilford do you would it be helpful to for us to make a recommendation to the council now do you need have you uh planned for when you would do this work um right now it be a good time to make a recommendation the work will probably start in October late October at the earliest so if we could get the approval or the disapproval done that would be great and you saw that daac was supportive but or not DAC Tac was supportive but had raised with Jason several issues about number of crossbox and lighting a crossbox I think were several of them did you um I don't know that we can do anything about that but did you have any comments on those things well we're actually we're we're the plan has for flashing beacons at the crosswalks so the rectangular rapid flashing beacons will be at the crosswalks those that was something they were asking about I think that's what they're alluding to um they would like some additional Street lighting but I'm not sure we can actually install it because of the way the the eversource system is over there yeah I think their other thing is really for future action is that they would like to look at speed limit again but that's a different a whole different process yes George so I'm prepared to make a motion um I want to acknowledge the uh the tech report which again was excellent and detailed um and I I hear the thought that some of these things are for future action I hope they won't uh get lost uh that's certainly a job that we can also take on here at TSO in terms of of the the issue of speed limits in particular um but I think I I'm ready to make a motion uh if the chair is willing to entertain it go ahead so my motion would be that TSO approves the uh it recommends that the Town Council approve uh the planned West Street uh updates between Long Meadow Drive and pot wine Lane second hey question's been made and seconded um any further discussion on the motion seeing no uh go for vote Council Ryan hi Bob hegner hi to yes and I'm a yes so it's four 4 to zero with one member absent that we are recommending that to the council for the September 9th meeting so we have I see a hand in the audience I don't know if you wanna call it um I don't think we can go back to public comment now because I really uh I think we've yeah I think public comment earlier and we want to conclude the meeting we usually try and limit to two hours um because there the only other thing that I think that is an action item um which we could dispose of as the minutes of of July 25th 2024 which were presented the packet is there any comments on the draft of the minutes if not um I'll start with a motion and the motion is to approve the minutes for July 25 2024 as submitted I'll second Mo has been made and seconded a discussion councelor we go to a vote counselor Ryan hi B hegner hi Jennifer tab yes and I'm a yes so it's 4 to zero with one member absent that we have approved the minutes um and the other item I think we're not going to be able to really spend time on it we're going to discuss but U we were um given a referral of uh the transportation parking commission charge and amendments and uh what I had said in an email to you that I didn't want to actually have discussion today but if but it would be use to know what information or um we can have or need to seek in order to have that discussion at our next regularly scheduled meeting in SE which is in September uh Bob yeah the only issue I had with the whole idea was um that some of the actions would require uh the town to spend money and I think that only the council can well if it's within the budget of DPW or the town manager's budget it's one thing but if it requires an additional appropriation I think only the the Town Council can do that so I don't know whether this uh commission would have the authority to do that or not or whether they could everything has to be referred to the council for approval or not so I think we need to clarify that he um Jennifer yeah so I I agree with Bob I so we will have a much Fuller discussion about what would be within the purview of this commission and what we might be concerned not be and just you know I'd like to talk through a little you know how items that have come before the council related to parking and transportation have how that would lay out differently coming before the commission if it had to go before the commission I think that will be the discussion next meeting for and George so this be a major item maybe the major item for our next meeting is what you're thinking um how do you want to present it and I'm I'm just asking um sometimes you assign somebody the task of presenting it um the other way is simply we just start talking about it this is a fairly complicated and uh involved uh uh proposal and it might uh benefit from a fairly systematic approach I just I'm asking um or do people just want to I mean it'll be in our packet next time both the both documents um so we'll have ample time to look at it and think about it um do people want some sort of presentation and sort of systematic approach do they want to just jump in and uh just yeah what does the chair think um I think the one of the difficulties that I'm having with this is that uh one of the I think that this is a meeting where Tracy Zing would be really helpful but she has problems in frequently having work conflicts with this particular time at which we meet and I have to see whether available uh I'm just asking about how to approach it it's just it's got so many moving parts and so many moving pieces um this is something that I think both Tac and Paul um are are keen on um we could ask them to present it or some I just how do you want to I just asking my colleagues asking you Andy um how we want to go about this um so it's efficient and we actually cover all the important basis because it's there's a lot in there there is a lot in it and uh next meeting um that the uh they have given a lot of thought I I don't know if Guilford was involved in it I know that Paul obviously has given a lot of thought to the question of um how we can address these issues more efficiently than as currently happening and uh I think a key factor that has to be focused on too is that it's a commission that would involve staff and you would bring you would have separate membership in it in addition and so we would be giving up a certain amount of our role as Tso and um Tac would be melded into this so that U it would be an a very different process um and uh question that we're trying to get at is U is it right for us as a council is it right for the town to not to to have what decisions should be made by the elected board and what decisions can be more efficiently made by a commission that's not the elected board elected Council so I guess what I'm proposing and I know it's late and we got to get out of here but um I'd prefer to have somebody actually make the case for this um and that could be Paul it could be uh Tracy it could be Guilford and then they might say no we don't want to do it that's fine but otherwise I think we're we're just going to end up talking about this piece and that piece and back and forth I would like someone uh to make a presentation to TSO um you know as strongly as they could U uh in support of this proposal and then we can then start uh figuring out what pieces uh we want to focus on otherwise I think we're just going to start talking about it and I don't think that's going to be very productive make that request uh to Paul and see what he thinks I don't know if he yes I want and I will include Tracy and Gilford is's hearing this anyway but yeah Guilford in the request that a presentation be made as you have described that's my thought Jennifer could we submit questions just you know not just to you if we that you could pass on to them to include in the presentation yes okay good so that is how we will handle it and I will uh send something out as a reminder to ourselves and to make sure that um councel Lord is brought up to date on what where we're going with this since she was unable to attend today okay so so that said um I think that there's anything else that uh is on anticipated business anything else that anybody else wants to add otherwise he'll take a motion to adjourn I move to aour Second was made and seconded uh Council Ryan hi Bob egner hi Jennifer DAV yes um yes so uh we have adjourned at uh we'll just call a quarter after 12 thank you this has been a very long difficult meeting thank you for contributing your time and expertise this morning yes yeah thank you thank