##VIDEO ID:zD842nvKYe4## all right we're recording please go ahead okay um I'd like to call the town services and Outreach Committee of the ammer toown council to order on September 12 2024 at 3 minutes after 10 in the morning this is meeting posted for 10 we have a quorum of the committee present and uh this meeting is being conducted by remot means uh members of the public uh who wish to access the meeting uh can do so via zoom and actually all of us are participating via Zoom uh this uh meeting is being conducted uh under current open meeting law Provisions in Commonwealth and I'm going to go through and just make sure that all members of the committee can hear and uh they they can hear me and we can hear them so C Ryan I'm here I can hear you uh Jennifer tab uh I'm here councilor Lord here I can hear you okay so um and we know that uh uh Bob hegner is not going to be available today and is therefore not a part of the meeting and um so with that said I think that we can uh move uh along to um see if there's anybody in the audience uh who would like to make public comment so if there any request for public comment please raise your hand seeing no request for public comment then I think we can go on to um item three and so Paul welcome back thank you hope you had a good break yes and U we have a town uh manager appointments that you wanted are going to present to us I believe this morning for uh if I'm correctly in my recollection it's Board of Health and uh Community uh preservation act committee so so the first first is the Board of Health this is a vacancy in the Board of Health that we're seeking to fill and the the appointment is for Dia Mana uh Dia um uh was a is a graduate of Hampshire college is now a PhD student in neuroscience and behavior at University and has done research at the broad Institute and MIT at in Harvard um and at Hampshire she also Ser or they also served on the um uh Board of Trustees um and we were intrigued by dea's uh background and experience mostly because they bring a different um perspective to the um committee that broadens the um uh the knowledge based because they're a real researcher and behavioral health and mental health issues which is something that board of health is very concerned about but doesn't have any expertise at this point in time and uh the values that they brought to the conversation were very um in line with where the Board of Health wants to go in terms of socioeconomic diversity and um issues of lgbtq plus um community so uh that's the appointment for the Board of Health hey um I think I'm going to ask just one question that I've been thinking about over the um as you've been bringing more students to us um are you making inquiry as to how long people who are applying in students will be available to participate on the board and is that being considered by um your committee as you look at these yes and in fact that's been more of a an issue with undergraduates we do look at when they're when they're likely to graduate um and students are pretty honest that they don't they are unlikely to continue but I think we last time we did one for the cultural Council who was going to be graduating but the perspective that that person brought was really unique and um thought that a one year service on the committee was was worthwhile um the two that we had appr um approved recently um are both graduate students who are going to be here for multiple years and and one of the reasons I think about this is that um those voices need to be heard by the committees as well so even if it's just for a short time there's going to be another gr they're always graduate students they're always students undergraduate students and we need to hear their voices even if the individual is only here for a short period of time and this came home to me when I appointed someone um to the Recreation Commission she was she knew she was only going to be here she she was a partner of a of a graduate fellow at UMass and she had a new baby and she was frustrated by her ability to get service get um swim lessons at Recreation and what she said which was really informative to me she says I'm only going to be here two years but when I move out someone else is going to move in who's going to have a little baby who's going to need the same services and we need to hear that perspective and so I think hearing the perspective even if it is for two or three or four years is a really important thing for the for the town to listen to okay thank you councelor Ryan just a quick question Paul does this U appointment then bring the Board of Health to the full five members um it does it does thank you Jennifer um yeah so I just this isn't particular to any candidates but I just have a little concern about the process because it's feeling you know this is my first um year on Tso and that we really can't do anything than I guess rubber stamp the recommendations it would be helpful can we know who else applied just to to have that information I know that you can't share the Cales um but if we could know who else applied at least we'd have some context Athena's hand just went up Athena you under respond um TSO had asked about that over the years oh um sorry something just popped up and I are you seeing my ran George Ryan was Shing a white oh George George sorry I was trying my computer is now um forcing me to go through conion just to raise my hand and there are like five options and I apparently new whiteboard is right under raise hand I'm trying to I'm gonna close the Whiteboard I apologize to you all and I will shut up uh so TS had asked sorry TSO had asked about this before and um for some time Paul had been reporting on the number of applicants so kind of giving information about the applicants but not sharing CFS and honestly the CFS don't have a heck of a lot of information about the applicants anyhow it's really just kind of name and address so um so we could ask Paul to do that yeah we had multiple applicants for this for these slots I can say that um and and I think the important Point here is that is it is the manager's appointment it's not the council's appointment if it were the council appointment you would see all the CFS and all the applicants but that's not what the that's not how the charter is structured so um the choice for the council is to sort of like the Supreme Court you get to say yes or no to whoever is presented to the council you get you can say no we want to see somebody else and that's that's totally within the realm of authority of the council okay I just have one more request is um people so the applicants are they not ified before it becomes public that they have not been selected the goal is to do that and that did not happen in this case because I had gone on vacation so I have notified them since then so if going forward I guess they could know before I tried to do that yeah we try to do that everybody thank you councelor Ryan do you have a motion uh I actually want to say something first um this uh discussion has happened in previous TSO iteration and um I have also had the experience through go I think that we are part of a process and part of what we do is simply to ensure that that that the town manager follows that process um and we also have an opportunity to ask questions and we learn things so uh we're not a rubber stamp but um as Paul pointed out these are his appointments and ultimately the council has a say if they wish to exercise it um I think our job is is kind of what we did today um just Paul describes the process in great detail I think he does an excellent job in in bringing a number of other people into it it's not just something he does by himself um and uh it's there in black and white um I've often have opportunities to ask questions as as others have had this morning um but I don't think it's our job to second guess um his appointments um and so I I'm perfectly happy with the way this process works I don't believe that we are supposed to be looking over his shoulder as he does it um I think our job is mainly to make sure that the process is followed and there are certain questions we can ask and we do um so that's just something I want to throw in there from my experience I've been very pleased by the way the town manager handles this and um I say that not to flattering but just is I think a statement of fact um and I'm ready to make a motion if the chair is ready for a motion yes go ahead and if I can read my screen um I'm would like to I move to uh hang on here my screen it's not my day for uh computers can I help George uh I I want to do this you got it okay it's one of the few things I think I can actually do um I move uh to recommend that uh the town manager appointment of Dia Mana to the uh Board of Health for a two-year term to expire uh June 2026 I move to recommend uh that the council approve the town manager's appointment that I mangle that think that's sign your second that's what I'm waiting for I will second it to keep this moving um so we can go ahead and uh proceed to a vote uh and uh we'll start with councelor Ryan hi and councelor Lord hi uh Jennifer yes and I'm a yes so that is 4 Z so Paul back to you so the next set of appointments is for the community preservation act committee and these are the designes from the Committees so every committee there are certain seats reserved for committee members and so the Conservation Commission had recommended Jason Dorney the Housing Authority had recommended reappointment of David Williams and Recreation Commission had recommended Matt Kan um at the time I wrote this memo the planing board hadn't made a recommendation yet so that will come to you later but those are the three recommendations from those committees and they do that annually coun Ryan I'm prepared to make a motion yeah um I'll just as I um this goes back to my select board days when select board was making these appointments we always assumed that um the way it's structured for the community preservation act committee that it is the role of the committee to make the recommendation and we never uh question their judgment because the process had been for the somebody to get on the committee they had gone through the process already once so we assume that they're qualified and it's the choice of the committee and I'm assuming that that's still how it's being handled uh Council Ryan go ahead so I move the TSO recommend to the Town Council the approval of the following appointments of the Town manager to the community preservation act committee um Jason Dorney uh David Williams and Matt Kaine all for terms to end June 30 to expire June 30 2025 I'll second motion's been made and seconded and uh there's no further discussion then I'll start with the vote with councelor Ryan hi and uh C Council Lorden I uh Jennifer yes and um yes so that uh is again for to Z One member absent which is the same vote as the prior so that takes care of those issues is there anything you have no others Paul so no thank you um which then takes us to um item four on the agenda which is uh the waste holler program bylaw uh Amendment is the way that it is written and uh ly is joining us and I wanted to U start by um just seeing if anybody has any comments about uh the meeting council meeting on Monday I thought that uh it was a excellent uh discussion and I wanted to um thank George for his hard work on uh putting together and doing the presentation at the beginning and um I think that all you know we were a great team and um you know clearly we provided uh the information that the council was looking for because uh there was very little asked in information that we hadn't already provided and uh what happened on the motion itself um I actually feel very good about the motion and I'm going to write it thank you not to um our counselor U Mandy anaki who had uh put in the final version of the motion as was passed I had thought about doing something similar after a conversation that I had had with Mandy I did not feel com able however um proposing such a motion because we had had a motion that had been voted by the committee uh and so I felt we needed to start with that so that was uh I guess my introduction your comment I don't know if anybody else has anything that they want to say at this point about the meeting on uh the council meeting uh Council Ryan I think word smithing on the fly in a council meeting is terrifying and uh highly unrecombined beginning okay uh so I'm going to proceed to the second Point um and just say uh Paul we were really sorry that you weren't there there um there were questions that were asked uh um that would uh in Guilford came in and made a statement about um the amount of money that would be required to hire a consultant which is of course you don't know until you engage in a process to actually take that on uh and uh u i I assume that you're aware of what was reported and that we proceeded just on that basis but there was nothing uh binding out of that of course um Jennifer yes I just want to recognize uh Guilford was extremely helpful during the meeting and we didn't get to this till late so at least I really appreciated his his being there um and the other thing this may be jumping ahead but when he did share a ballpark of what the cost might be since there are so many we can get contracts we can get rfps and certainly contracts from other municipalities in the state that you know I'd like to have a conversation about how many hours really will be required if we're talking about the consultant just you know working on drafting the RFP and then would that person also be evaluate looking at the responses but you know of how many hours how can we can we really pair it down to the hours that we you know so there's not sticker shock when we go back to the council um I mean I've heard some people say we well yeah that that it because we have so much information we can provide to the consultant how many hours will really be required for that person to draft the RFP um I was going to add a little bit of information but that's a really important point and the reason I'm going to add the information is that um I think that it makes for just a more complete discussion and it is going to get into to then when we get to um talking about the timeline um how all of this works together uh I did some research um on over the weekend and on Monday on several different points that were related to this and reported informally but it did not get into Council discussion one is that I started looking for bylaws or ordinances in other cities and towns and I actually was finding that um most as a matter of fact I could not find any in the towns that I looked at or cities that I looked at that nobody has a um a specific bylaw establishing the service that is and the only thing I can come to is that the service is just a assumed to be a service that the town provides like you don't have a bylaw establishing a police department you just know you have a police department and uh I think that U we have to actually get into this question as to whether we're talking about um a bylaw or really just talking about the specifics of the program which is I think the in uh uh Lynn has suggested other language than a byw for what the goals are for trying to look for criteria that go into RFP the other thing that I spent a lot of time on is that those of us who were at the MMA conference heard a presentation uh that included um discussion of Long Meadow um and Mark gold from The Long Meadow select board was uh the one who was the um presenting on that portion of the program and he was the one who had a fairly substantial discussion about how they proceed through the RFP process so um I spent a lot of time looking at Long Meadow and how they do their program I also like long Meadow's program and like looking at their website and um I uh uh because uh what they have done and how they have structured and been able to work with their vendor to do pays you throw was really an u i find to be very impressive um their current um RFP was is actually in process now as far as I can tell it was issued on May 1 of 2024 they um as he said uh Mark said at the uh uh conference they do it every five years and they enter into fiveyear contracts there are Provisions in the contract in some sections where um cost of doing business gives um um some leeway for increases uh um and uh as a result but I I when I looked at the Long Meadow budget um the increase was about $50,000 between FY 24 and fy2 the uh the the RFP that was issued on May 1st of this year is 79 pages long and um it is extremely comprehensive ensive it U provides eight options for biders to bid on and biders can uh and companies can bid on providing sections of the service and they don't have to provide the entire service um which actually came up a little bit in the council meeting on the question of uh composting and and uh I um there was an option eight in um of the eight options this year which is food waste proposal and uh it says I don't know the exact langage in front of me but I'm not looking at it the longm has not had compost collection but they are thinking about um that option and therefore they were inviting um people to bid on providing that service um as option 8 um so I found it very educational to see how it's structured and if anybody um is interested in looking at the 79 page document I can be glad to forward it to you I have it in PDF uh but I'm not recommending that you sit there and read the entire thing line from line but it does give you a sense of what we're talking about to having looked at it so um the other thing that I did in looking at this and then I'll stop on this I hope I'm not boring you with this piece uh that uh I I did look at their budget and I did look at the number of households that they had I did a calculation of um and I don't know if this is an accurate methodology or not the amount that their budget sets aside for um the um whole Recycling and um trash program and uh then divided it by the number of households to get a sense of what that number was and U it was it was interesting that I I had which I is why I asked uh um one of our members who uses USA to tell me how much uh they were paying for USA so I could compare the two numbers I don't know that that really is dispositive of anything but it was um helpful for me to at least get a sense of that and I guess the last thing that I on um that I was going to report on my research is that they have a recycling commission as a body that is um it's like any other Town committee but um it oversees the process because it's really looking at recycling and when you look at the bylaws as I say there's no bylaw establishing the program they do have a bylaw that's similar to our and remember they're town with town meeting they're not a council they're not a city um that they do have a bylaw that handles the recycling issues that are by and large covered in our Board of Health regulations um and uh I am continuing on with my investigation and I actually had Mark and had lunch with them once a few years ago at a uh MMA conference and I'm am thinking about trying to put together list of questions to ask of Mark and give him a call um so that's the report on on that and uh I got several people who indicated that they were interested in seeing the RFP it is um obviously a public document I can actually put it into the packet for today's meeting if uh that's something people want me to do so anyway uh Jennifer and the Athena um you might have mentioned this Andy but in Long Meadow they provide this are they Contracting out for the service yes I guess that's why they have an RFP so they're not they are they do an RFP they have always and that's uh how they do it their current provider is cassella okay and uh you know they they have a contract for service I actually is planning to ask Mark if I could get his get their contract okay so that's interesting though that you mentioned that they don't have a bylaw for trash no and I looked at about half a dozen other cities and towns to see if I could find anybody who does and uh I didn't find any U but I did obviously wasn't doing a comprehensive search I just did a quick yeah well thank you for all that research wow um Athena I was going to ask you for the the bid documents but I found them on the Long Meadow site so I was just letting folks they were nodding if you when you said if anybody else would like to read them so I'll add those to the packet okay thank you um so with that um does anybody else have anything because what I would like to do if there's agreement to do this is U ask Lynn to she's been giving a lot of thought to this question of Outreach and um the entire timeline process and um rather than my trying to paraphrase what you presented are you comfortable presenting it to us absolutely let me also mention that uh Guilford is in the audience if you want to bring him in yes please do thank you um every time I speak about this I I want to make sure people understand I'm not opposed to anything that helps our environment I have recycle personally for over 40 years most people didn't even know it existed when I was doing this so but this is a big job and it's a big decision for our town and this this committee has done an amazing job and some other committees either of the town or advocacy groups that are not part of the town have worked hard on this so I'm not in any way dismissing that but this will cost Our Town money we don't know how much we're getting a sense here and there it will cost our res residents and some of those residents are presently not paying anything more than $125 to go to the to the um transfer station a year so that was the perspective that I bring to this so when I put together the revised timeline which I believe Andy has included in your packet um my first thoughts as I looked at everything that had to get done was this is a lot for any one committee to do and it's a lot for any one town to do in any time period okay so I'm wondering if part of what we need to do is think about a consultant who's going to do other pieces besides just write an UNP the fact that other towns don't have a bylaw doesn't surprise me because as Andy said it's just been a department for years for them um I also feel very strongly I said this at the council meeting I understand that people one of the big questions that people have is what is it going to cost will it cost me any less than I'm play paying now I but I feel regardless of the issue of cost there are other things that people have on their mind as they look at this and therefore I have really encouraged that Outreach happen earlier rather than later and let me just mention I'm not the only one because district one and now District Two are scheduling district meetings where they're going to have discussions about this during the month of September and you I think that's terrific I think it's an opportunity and both of us are also by the way having discussions about the uh another one of the bylaws that is not coming from this committee um so that was one and the other piece I I noticed in the timeline just off you know it you didn't include the Board of Health and they need to be included in how you do this because they actually set the regulations um for this activity so we don't need to go through my timeline it's it it it presents my bias that there are issues around this besides price and some of those issues I will just say are because people feel very passionately that if we do this we will somehow or another be contributing to reducing um you know our the problems with our environment and I'm not saying we won't I'm just saying whenever the town takes on another responsibility we as a council really need to look at what that's going to cost us and whether we can implement it and again under the purview of another committee we've been looking at rental registration bylaw we've even adopted it we don't know whether we're going to be able to have the stat to implement it so these are this is more the perspective I'm coming I'm not coming from this perspective because I think people have not done a great job you have I'm not coming from this perspective because I have something like well I don't think the environment is important it is incredibly important I'm coming from the perspective of what do we owe our residents in terms of listening to them and what is it going to really mean for our town to implement this thank you thank you and by the way I'm coming at this as a as a district 2 counselor not as president of the council okay thank you Lyn um I guess a couple things to what she said um that I just want to comment on and um like to have some disc Hope from some discussion from the committee then one is about price um we keep going back around on the same point that unless we do an RFP we're not going to have an answer for us um the cost for those of us and I'm one of them who uses the transfer station and does not use USA waste for um our household needs um it's a little more than 125 because we also put about $60 into buying bags every year uh and that you know that's how it's structured because that's how pays you throw Works um but um I did ask somebody for the who's Gaba waste uh to give me that information so at least we have that point of comparison I did do that rough calculation of taking long meta's total budget and the number of households that they reported de is that they serve in their system and um you know did did a division that amount included staff it was not just the their budget lists a portion of the DPW um director a portion of the Town engineer and um several other staff positions portion of them are are charged into that budget for uh what they call the recycling budget and uh um so I was actually um felt comfortable taking that Tober and dividing it out and seeing how it compares to what people are paying in the two different systems and it makes me comfortable with where we're at uh I can share my arithmetic but that wasn't the point that I was making the other thing is um I think Outreach is really important and I think that one of the questions that Lynn has been raising with me for some time and what I wanted to get out uh get into the discussion today is that I had originally proposed not doing Outreach until we got the RFP back and had numbers to share um and uh um and I think that Lyn has put a different perspective on it that um the community interest um is so great that we really need to start that process even before we get to the RFP stage um and I think that needs to be part of the discussion today Jennifer yeah so I wonder if we would maybe well two we know that two districts are having their meeting um in District 4 we just had our second district meeting a couple of weeks ago but maybe we could ask counselors to you know convene a meeting by maybe the end of November um I can't speak for Pam but I'm sure we would be willing to have a meeting just dedicated to this we combined our mailing list so we have over 500 res residents constituents on our mailing list and we'd be happy to have a meeting and let people know it's dedicated to a discussion of this item all the emails that I've received to date from constituents over the last couple of years have been in support of this by you know proposed bylaw but I'd be happy to have a meeting a district meeting just devoted to this item maybe all counselors could do that or have a district meeting and this be on the agenda if there sorry I went hit my mute button as well as other items they wanted to include maybe I should have interrupted a quick point Sorry quick point of order um they've lost power in parts of the center of town so George um was disconnected he's going to try and come back K is on the phone so we'll just confirm that he can hear us and we can hear him in a moment and we also lost Guilford because they lost power down at DPW so George can you hear us uh yes I can hear you and I hope you can hear me yep we can yes we can okay so George while we were talking about when uh you went off is uh uh after Lyn made a brief presentation we've been talking about Outreach and when we should be doing Outreach and U district meetings as the means of starting the Outreach discussion yes good I have a thought on that if I can I I can raise my hand but um May I just interject a thought go ahead very briefly uh for outreach at least in the short term I would suggest that um the whoever's doing it use the motion language that um the council has passed and focus the discussion on those elements the eight elements that are I think it's eight that are highlighted there um that would be my initial thought um and also it EMP emphasized that there is no program at the moment um for us to discuss so I I I kind of feel Outreach at this stage is a bit premature but if people are going to go ahead and do it and maybe TSO will do it too sorry about the background noise um I think we should uh you know use this document that we passed as the focus of our discussions and I'll sh yes so George a question that I would have about what you just said is that uh a lot of our uh do all of our constituents even know that we've had this discussion and it's been in the newspaper it's been on some of the web I know that uh you know things like Hammer's current and uh Indie have reported on it uh but no I Andy I think Outreach is fine I I I I I I don't mean to to to and early is is fine my only thought is that that the focus of it if so we're all sing from the same song book should be um that motion language and then um uh and that's really about as far as we can go at this stage but yeah I agree with you there are a lot of people haven't heard about this doesn't hurt to to spread the word right away um but I just want to emphasize that there is no program that we're going to be talking about because we don't have one uh there's no bylaw that we be talking about because there isn't one um but there is a sort of a broad outline of what we are setting out to accomplish and as long as people keep to that um I think we should be okay and I've got power back so I'm hoping that in a few minutes um I'll be able to see you all and you can see me but um for the moment I'm going to stay here and I'm going to shut up again yeah with power adages you just don't know how long it'll last um any other thoughts on the subject so U we never really formally adopted um the the outline of um tasks the the work plan I put that together to give us some sense of it um one of the things that I've become somewhat frustrated about is I'm not sure that it's realistic on the dates I'm not sure that the completion of an RFP process or issuance of an RFP can go as quickly as we can I think that we will continue to need input from our professional staff uh PA and Guilford in particular on those kinds of issues because I think think it is important that we have a process that continues to move forward but is also realistic and uh I can work uh I I can revise the uh timeline but I think that we have to recognize that it is always going to be a work in progress It's always going to be something that we will amend as we need to because we can't at this point be certain of our ability until we get a little bit farther along I had geed it towards an implementation date of uh getting a new system in place on July one 26 which if um we wanted to give a onee uh between when we accept an RFP and when it's implemented which came from the rfis were indicating that some companies were indic were telling us that um once they got a contract it would take a period of time for them to um get the equipment and staff that would be required to serve a community of our size that that's where that came from uh and those arees that I'm hoping we can continue to work with but we always have to be willing to be flexible anything else anybody if nobody else has thoughts on it then I'm going to actually uh do a revision and we can always take up the revision at our next meeting as to whether people feel comfortable with it uh and whether we want to treat Tre as more than an informal document and treated as something that the committee itself wants to formally adopt George counc ran yeah just again some quick thoughts I I appreciate the offer to revise it um I think in what is in the packet uh which I believe is Lynn's document there's just far too much detail but um that's maybe something for us to discuss at at when we come back with a revision for the committee um I wouldn't be too worried about I mean it's a two-year U schedule that you have in front of you and I would stick to that I realize it may not be realistic but I think that that's it's aspirational and we should we should we should try to keep to that two-year frame and fit things within that within reason um and I wouldn't worry too much about whether at the end it's going to have to be adjusted it certainly will have to be adjusted um but I think the basic outlines that you provide abouted in the original draft are excellent um there I think the Board of Health L is direct that needs to be brought into it and I assume that's something you'll do um when you do the revision but um I wouldn't really uh obsess too much about you know is this possible is this possible um I think we'd work within the two-year window and and create a a timeline and then bring it back to us but uh um those are my thoughts okay um yeah I mean the one thing I appreciated also uh little Lynn did was to go towards key features and focus on the word on the term key features as opposed to bylaw because I'm not sure that we're going to end up with the bylaw um but what we're talking about is what do we want is the key features for an RFP and uh I thought that that was a very helpful switch I think getting the uh giving more thought much earlier Outreach and uh is also a part of it so I will work on that and uh I think it's pretty much uh uh based on taking what Lyn has done and uh starting from that anything else that people have to think about on that because otherwise uh I don't know if we have anything else we want to talk about today on this subject Jennifer no I just wanted to thank Lynn because I do think the earlier we do the Outreach the the the better so I'm glad we're starting that sooner prob I assume since you haven't raised your hand you have nothing you're suggesting right now um aena please put me back in the audience thank you so the next topic then on the agenda which we haven't had a chance to talk about in any detail because we've been so focused on this is the proposed transportation and parking commission that U has been referred to us with the request that we report back uh I think October 23rd is the date we were requested to report back to the Council on this is a pretty complicated issue and um one that I I think that we need to take very seriously uh also as an individual counselor want to thank you Paul for all of your thought that you have put into this and worked that you've done with it um well I've uh identified a few things that I want to think about um I think the way that you presented it in the memorandum really helped me think through what those topics are because I have not been U and again speaking only as one individual counselor now not really been Happ happy with a lot of things that have been um happening and how we proceed it seems right uh that we really do need an improvement in the system that we have and a better division of um where the council needs to spend its time and where the council doesn't need to spend its time maybe I've been through the select board and the uh Council in one too many poll hearings but uh Paul yeah I just wanted uh know I appreciate you this is a big topic you're right Andy and I think it's something to have a conversation about and engage with this I do want to recognize that you you talked about the organization that really was Athena's hand at helping to organize it in a coherent way that aligned with the current council's policies and helped have those two documents the council's policy on delegation of author with this concept um have be in conversation with each other so she did a lot of work um pulling those two things together in a really in a really strong way so um but I think the the goal of it the general goal I think you identified is that um the to facilitate many of the initiatives you know many of the um decision-making processes to make them more efficient to have the people at the table who should be at the table to make it more transparent and accessible to the public and get to decisions and to relieve some of the the minor smaller decisions or more comp um heavily discussed um items from the council's agenda leaving the big topics to the council's you know the big decisions um changing Road directions and things like that so um so I think that that's that was the goal of this and I think it's a worthy conversation to have George uh you had I had had a conversation which uh by the way Guilford is back in the uh audience section U I don't know if he wants to come part of this to which we could bring him into the meeting if he wants um George you had given some thought and you and I had a conversation about um what you thought were some of the things that we need to talk about it wanted to see if you had anything you wanted to share at this point well first of all just um I really support this I think this is the right way to go um I I like what we have in front of us I realize that may not be true of all my colleagues but um I think this is this makes sense for many of the reasons that Paul stated um I'm just focusing my mind on what what Tso needs to do going forward I kind of I hope before the meeting is over we'll go back to the previous topic I apologize I'm back we had power back um but uh in the in the meantime I obviously I was way out of this conversation but uh the previous one but for this one um I think the committee needs to figure out how we want to proceed um uh one way you could do this is to have a presentation um and then with with it sort of in a in a structured way um as opposed to just us at the next meeting or a future meeting uh saying okay you you've seen what's in the packet what do you think um one way you could proceed is to have someone uh from the committee um or whatever but have somebody make a presentation on this and go through the specifics and lay out some of the uh uh the questions and issues that need to be addressed sort of give it some shape and then see what the committee thinks and and how they want to proceed I'm worried about us just kind of of discussing this um and we all kind of just talk talk talk talk um purpose is certainly a topic I think that we should talk about re reiterating some of the things that Paul has said And discussing to what degree we as a committee agree with these these goals of some of them I think we do agree with some we not um but we need to be clear on what the purpose of this is and so we should have a discussion about that uh the composition of the commission uh the scope of the commission um a couple of topics uh this is more than just about um Road pavement um it it it involves um you know bike and pedestrian safety sidewalk speeding I mean there a whole host of things so part of it also is sort of to lay out the scope and see if everyone's what they want to keep in or what they want to take out amongst the committee um so the issue of scope uh who should be on the commission the purpose of this um what else did I have here um issue of expertise um anyway these are some topics and you all may have some others as well but I think that that something like this should be presented uh moving through these topics one by one um and then have the members of the committee then respond with questions comments Etc um and eventually we could reach a point where we are agreed as to what we think this should look like um as opposed to just a free-for-all that's my main concern today is that we can agree on a way to move forward yeah I agree with um what George just outlined and suggested so um on a more micro level maybe this could be part of the uh presentation so I just from wanted more clarity on when we have this commission so the issue like the the parking regulations on Lincoln Sunset and Elm how that would work through the commission and my concern and like now we have a uh some parking well really traffic issues on little mclen street that would that be too small for the commission like how would that get addressed with a commission you know something that's that neighborhood and Street specific so that's my concern that that that just wouldn't be something they might take up or they'd want to take it up and as a townwide issue when it's when something's very specific to a street or neighbor Hood um and then yeah so that's mine I have some you know General um suggestions or feelings about the composition of the commission and then like a parking structure is that if we do a Downtown parking structure is that some I would not want to see that within the commission's purview so that could be part of the discussion and presentation hey um Paul so Andy are you looking to just gather the questions today or do you want to have are you looking to have the conversation these are all really important questions I think what we need what I was thinking about doing and I was going to propose maybe this is a good you've given me a good trigger to do it I was hoping that we could get some preliminary thoughts about the topics that we need to look at as a committee not actually um do the analysis or start talking about them today but start collecting and then send a memo or report to the council because we said report by October 23rd we can report a lot earlier with our first report and that first report could simply say we've identified these issues that we intend to look at but we know that this really belongs to the council ultimately therefore we want to make sure that we are considering issues that are important to you if you have any issues that you would like us to consider please send them to the committee by whatever date we choose and uh make sure so that we don't get um into an unfortunate situation of um having thought we had addressed all of the issues and then Council and there's a list of other issues that count a counselor or counselors wish to that we had talked about and frustrate the process I'd like to see that we can get a process that gets us to to a point where the um Council and can then act on it so maybe the way to approach it is assuming that this I don't it doesn't sound like you want to debate whether it's a good idea or not the assumption is let's assume it's a good idea and like topic one is membership let's talk about membership you know topic two is um the sort of charge itself what's included in the charge and part of that conversation is like help me understand would like what Jennifer is saying would this be included in t in the in the new committee or not and if not where does it live you know in terms of neighborhood issues um is a traffic issue whatever so I think um and we can actually just work from the charge because I think that's one of the count one of the things the council requires is you put together an actual charge and I think that's that's a good framing document that you start to have that you start to react to the charge in in reference to the council's policy so like the next time you put this on your agenda we can actually structure what are the options um what other options that we did we not think about um and sort of go through it line by line almost yeah I mean there's one other that I think is obvious and and sort of implied in the charge but I think needs more clarification and that is uh what are the issues that um the commission is going to just make a decision on and what are the issues that the council wants to reserve for itself and on those are we looking and I think the answer to me is obviously going to be yes but may maybe disagreement on those issues where the council is going to act do we want a commission recommendation um and uh so those are in and the the other one is I think already and reference which is composition that chart was very helpful and I appreciated it but uh it raises very clearly a lot of um uh communities municipalities that have commissions have counselors as members and um I think we need to talk about that issue um then the other thing I had thought about and this gets into a more nitty-gritty practical stage it's a speed limits and U the uh you know as Guilford has previously advised um the state process for establishing speed limits and the engineering studies that are required in order to establish a speed limit uh can require uh a significant process of needing an engineering study such as we actually had to get for uh Henry Street U for that particular issue and uh so it's you know making a decision to U deal with speed limits is an extraordinarily complex problem as we've learned and how that fits into this process um councelor Ryan so I like Paul's suggestion of using the uh the committee charge as a basically as a um guide as a a way of structuring this discussion um I think that makes sense and and the key elements are there um composition purpose um and that the specifics of what goes in and what doesn't the scope um I just think that when it does happen and um someone there should be an individual person I think the chair could be anybody uh who just wants to sort of guide the discussion um so that we move systematically and there's some sense of an overview um and uh but I think that using this is the framing document makes sense um I guess today the question is does anyone have any strong feelings like this is bad idea or do I mean Jennifer's raised some concerns that's excellent and maybe there's some others that should come up now um reaching out to the council and getting their initial input would be valuable uh as we start this process and maybe also that could apply to members of the committee maybe right now people are still digesting this and still thinking about it but um I think initially today the thought would be is there anyone who doesn't want to proceed with this um is there anyone who thinks this is really a bad idea um or should be delayed um is there anyone who has any thoughts about the process how they'd like to see the process proceed um as I said already I'm worried about it just becoming a free-for-all discussion I'd like it to be fairly clearly structured um I'd like it to start as soon as possible um and having said that I'm uh reminding the chair and announcing to my colleagues that I won't be present at the next two meetings so that's that's just I'm unfortunate but that's what's going to happen so for me but you're perfectly all capable carrying this ball um but this is my thought about how I think that that should the game should be played Council of La um thank you being fairly new to TSO I don't know yet enough but I'm wondering if there is a difference to our constituents and to the the public of having us an elected board where they have a choice and who's on it make these decisions and have these discussions versus an appointed board where they wouldn't have any um input again I'm just putting that out there I'm going to go try to do some research and find out if there would be a difference to them and if it would really impact them but that's the first thing that I think of otherwise I think it's a great idea but I'm like would it be okay with them if the control is taken out of their hands at you know okay thank that's it yeah actually I'm glad you mentioned that uh because um when I said that I wanted to give thought to what issues that the council wants to reserve for itself but might want uh commission recommendations to the council and what decisions we want to turn over to the commission I think that you and I were probably thinking along similar lines you're you're talking about accountability to elected officials and that's a helpful frame to what I was but I think we were thinking in similar lines uh councilor Ryan you want to uh Jennifer go next I just wanted to Echo that thought um I think hollan is something important is on my list I actually skipped it um I called it the problem of communication and process transparency but essentially yeah constituents are often in the dark as to what's going on or they frust ated by the process they don't know who to go to who to talk to and their natural we'd like to think their natural impulse would be to reach out to their elected representatives um I'm not sure they always do that but that but PA's question is well then how would this kind of change impact that would it be better or worse um would would it improve this would it make it better or would it make it worse and I think that's also something we need to discuss um what would be the impact on constituents and on the relationship they have with their elected officials I good I think it should be added to the list of topics yes Jennifer sorry Jennifer no that's okay no I totally agree and when the town manager initially brought this to the council the first time he brought it last year you know I was one of the counselors that was concerned that the council was delegating too much of its authority to an appointed body so I totally share that concern and that's why in I found it really interesting looking at the composition of the different Transportation commissions and other municipalities where Springfield it's all residents there's no counselors or town staff if I read it correctly and then in others there were some of the others had one counselor some had two I I favor having counselors um you know as well as res you know counselors on this Commission because I do think there should be a direct link from the residents to their to the officials they have chosen to represent them but I that's an excellent point that I think um we we all share so I I appreciate you bringing that up yeah I I agree with what you good that Council Lord Lord brought that up because it's a fundamental decision the charter reserves these decisions to the council the question is does the council want to delegate it so it's a big decision for the council and it's totally within the bounds of the council decide yes no some of it not all whatever it chooses to do um and I think that um we want to reflect on what the goals are and that's transparency efficiency I think there's I think we've already heard enough that there's frustration on multiple levels um from constituents people who want to do things and also from counselors and staff that it's the decision making process isn't really as clearcut and this the goal of this is to make it more clear-cut for folks um and also to make it a more efficient decision- making these decisions aren't easy that's why it takes so much time you know especially when you're talking about uh limits of budget and um speed humps and all the different things that come in because there's just a lot of things to consider for the council and you need somebody with a townwide view because you have local you know people want things in front of their house and then you also have the bigger needs the larger needs of the transportation system so um I think it is a real fundament decision by the council um it's a big one so I think you should take you know make sure you do your homework and take your time to do it I think that the it was something it was alluding to something um when she was bringing up the question of parking on a particular Street and how those decisions get made I think we really may need to take a little bit of time to think about all the different ways that people now U try and get their complaints before a decision-making body um and uh how and are they feeling like they have no way of uh conveying their concerns or that if they convey their concerns they're not being heard because a lot of times biggest problem with government is that you f your complaint and um you never have acknowledgement that anybody actually heard you or you feel you haven't been heard and uh on the the other hand it isn't always a question of being heard it may be the budget question that Paul was alluding to did she it's a good idea but uh That Sidewalk installation U is a lot more complicated uh you know we've we keep hearing uh people talking about U the uh East Pleasant Street sidewalk desire um but I've always had a suspicion that U that's a budget question that may be frustrating um a process or that needs it just doesn't get communicated but I don't know Paul any follow up on that or I'll call yes no I think um one of the points is that the the reason it's a good time to do it is it's an experienced Council the council's been in operation long enough to have some real life examples so you can say well how would we how would it address this issue this request for a sidewalk on East plasant Street how would it have addressed parking on Lincoln a how would it address the um traffic coming at kushman we have real life examples that we can sort of play through and say well where would where would the council really want this to live do is this a committee you want to make that decision or would you want to reserve it for the council so I think the fact that we have a a a litany or a list of um tangible project projects that you can think about I think is is be very beneficial that's why I think it's important for this Council to have this conversation okay Jennifer yeah and I guess if in a presentation or a discussion we have to get really micro in that I think the way residents feel now if they have a parking or traffic or sidewalk concern they can bring it to their counselor and the counselor will do something with it that when you have this commission where the members if they don't live in the district or that how will they get their concern in front of that body and will that body be concerned about you know again a particular one street issue so I think what councelor Lord says you know now constituents have the counselor that can bring It Forward if the counselor doesn't have a direct connection to the commission will they feel like their voice can be heard I guess this is my suggestion of what we do is the next step on this and that is that uh that I work with u Vice chair of the committee councelor Ryan and we uh structure a draft of a report of this discussion for a committee report to the council and then uh send it out to the council and U in that goal that is to inform them about today's discussion and to invite them to submit their thoughts about things that they want the committee to be looking at as we continue and um then uh we'll work on a uh process to move this forward and uh that uh draft report we will as I always try and do circulate it to um the entire committee for comment uh before it goes out so that everybody has a chance to uh indicate that hey you missed this point or whatever or why did you include that I mean it's uh I think it's always helpful to try and do that does that seem like uh I work next step and uh I met you know with with uh councelor Ryan's um expertise and his work that he's done on the issue U and I want to give U him credit for um Lincoln Avenue discussion uh uh one of the things that came out of that that was really helpful was a uh comprehensive policy on parking issues and how we assess parking uh th those kinds of parking issues and uh it it resulted in a policy to help future TSO committees um deal with similar requests and uh he uh George was critical piece uh he he really did the lon share of the work on getting that going so I um hesitate to uh come up with a timeline that doesn't um give him an opportunity to fully participate which is going to make that October 23 end deadline uh probably unrealistic but we can uh put that into the report uh thoughts on that and anything else back to you George again I'm sorry that that I will not be present I will certainly try to see if there's a way I can um call in or or connect but I at this time the dates are really tough in one case I believe I'm actually on an airplane so that that may be impossible but um I will certainly make every effort to at least participate um what I'm thinking going ahead um if you use the charge document you can identify a series of topics much as we've done today and you might just decide for each meeting for the next couple of meetings we're just going to focus on that particular topic um and have someone it could be anybody could you know present it and then we talk about it and we you know see if we have agreement see where the issues are um and then we just work our way through the document in that way would probably take um maybe what uh four or five meetings I I hope not much more than that again perhaps Andy and I can think about a timeline here but that's what I'm envisioning rather than taking on an entire meeting dealing with this might break it up into pieces because there going to be other things obviously we're going to have to do Paul will have appointments I'm sure there'll be other stuff Guilford will probably have some project that we you know so we have a regular business but you could take this um and break it into pieces and then move through it that way at the same time we're asking for input from our colleagues on the council so your report will hopefully start that process um and uh so Andy and I can maybe think about a a map forward that we can share with you all and see if you like it but I would say take it in bite-sized pieces um because we're also dealing with uh the other with the other issue uh that I want to yeah that that thing that I want to come back to before we leave today um but that's my suggestion is take it pieces and use the the document as our as our guide okay anything else that people want to say right now about the uh how we're proceeding with the transportation and parking commission proposal so uh I'll talk to George after the meeting we'll see uh which one of us is going to take take on doing a draft report we'll get it to the committee so that and then get it back to the council and move forward as we discussed anything else on that did you say something you wanted to come back to the waste Haller discussion well because of the constant communication problem here and the loss of power um I kind of fell out of the conversation a bit um and when I came back it was reaching its a conclusion I just guess I want to sense of what what our next steps as a with waste huler um if you could just make that clear to me um uh what what we're going to be doing uh over over the next couple of weeks and months um what's you know I'm not maybe we can't talk about months but at least what's our next steps with waste dollar what are we doing as a committee um uh about this are we going to assign certain topics for people to look into or are we just gonna I I think there's a lot work needs to be done and we need to come to some agreement I think amongst all of us as to you know how much we're willing to take on and what we're going to take on um so yeah what's next steps with waste hall for us the committee um I think that uh Outreach um is one identificate uh making sure that we are getting kind of the key points that we want to have in an RFP uh and the key features for the not for RFP and for the for the process those are the um things I think and just uh um as Paul is able to report back to us on uh what he's what his thoughts are and how we can move forward on getting um a consultant and what the consultant's role should be as discussion I think I probably have to have a little bit directly with him and uh those were were kind of the mediate steps like me okay anybody else have something to add um as far as yeah sorry yeah I I'm I I'm concerned I uh I know we I just uh there's just a lot that needs to be get started I think um You' mentioned the contract language that we have from La Mano so maybe one concrete action step is that some of us maybe all of us will take a very close look at that or at least read some of it um we'll look at a sort of model um you know contract um you know uh I have a host of issues that that I'm thinking about I guess part of it is how much are we going to do as a committee uh in preparation for eventually the assumed hiring of a consultant to uh to draft an RFP um how much can we do at our end to facilitate that to the highest degree possible so when they come on board um they have a very uh much they have as much information as we can possibly give them are we expecting them to do all the work and we just sit back and then look at what they create yeah Paul has some thoughts here yeah I think the the RFP for the consultant is the next task right that's the thing we want to get out and I think I'm looking at this time schedule that um was in the packet and it's pretty aggressive um and it says it wants to have the RFP out this month which were which means basically two weeks um you know we'll have toci if that's that's a possibility but there's before you do the RFP you need to know some basic question you know what's being included I think we have a sense of that but I think the next step is for the C the committee to review the RFP for the consultant see if if it's if it's achieving what you want to achieve and whether it includes community outreach or not that was the other piece of it you're when you were talking about contracts we talking about contracts with Consultants or contracts ultimately with haulers I was thinking about haulers because that's what you had focused on we have a number of contracts of hollers I want to just point out that Gilford put together for us that are in a prior packet and uh for that came from the RFI process and the followup to the RFI process and uh so that there are a number of contracts to look at we don't have a number of we don't have a lot of rfps to look at U which is uh except now we have long mow um and uh the U well what we've given Paul through this motion is a sort of broad picture of what uh this committee at the moment and hopefully most of our colleagues since they voted uh unanimously in support of it what sort of what the broad picture of things uh what we're trying to get to but there are a host of specifics that that um we haven't really focused in on um some of which clearly will require some consultancy help but some of which it seems are really up to us to uh make some determinations there's also information that perhaps we could gather um in the in the interim um we're talking uh my understanding of the timeline is that a consult would not actually uh be on board until January uh it's maybe I'm misreading it or um uh we got two versions of a draft two timelines too so I don't again this committee seems to like to have two things at once but uh we have two timelines we have two bylaws uh uh I'm going with the original plan uh because we haven't really discussed the uh the one that's in the uh the packet uh in any detail it's just there for us to look at um the one that you and and we all kind of agreed on is the is the first one which is the one I'm following so anyway that it seems like consultant won't really actually be on board until January is that um something and so what do we do between now and then I I don't want us sitting on our hands um uh but I that's me speaking I don't know what the rest of you all think and then I don't know what what does it mean for us not to be sitting on our hands what are we supposed to be doing we don't just be doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff um so that's what I'm concerned about and I'm not sure we're going to resolve it this morning but um bennifer yeah I guess I was looking at the that I guess the amended with a lot of red the timeline that was in our packet which says that the draft bylaw wouldn't actually not the draft that the RFP would not be issued I guess I was reading it but I might have misread it wasn't going to go out until April with responses back by May of 2025 I think that was for the actual RFP for services not the so if we're going to put together an RFP for actual waste hauling Services that's a major that's a major initiative and we've been saying is the town does not have staff to do that so you need to hire someone to do that right so the consult would come on right and we do that and so you know yeah so it that that's a pretty extensive uh Eng engagement and putting together that whole document it's you know I mean you can take what long motto did and dust it off and say we just want to do the exact same thing um but I think that's not likely what the count what the town is going to want to do so you're going to have to engage a consultant to build that RFP together and then issue it and analyze the bids and all that kind of stuff so do you think it's realistic the RFP could go out in April uh that's that's what I I'm just looking at this timeline for the time so it's I think it's ambitious but I think that's that's the I what George is saying is like let's hold on to it even if it is ambitious and see let's sort of continue to press on the timeline of this yeah I I think that the thing which is why I said something earlier uh which is is the real is it realistic to think that we could have a decision by July 1st to give a one-year notice to a new contractor based on the RFI one year statement that was there or is uh that U an unrealistic date and in I we need some good advice on that um but the other thing I want to I don't know think it's a decision they made today but we need some good advice on it so George I don't know if you were had lost power if you were off when we were discussing one thing well all the the councelors could do almost starting as soon as they can is have district meetings either a district meeting specifically to discuss waste taller or as an item on their agenda so we the community outreach could begin hopefully right away I know that Lynn had raised the question at one point and I think Paul mentioned it too about uh whether a consultant helping with Outreach is an important part of the process knowing that uh other communities that have engaged in a process of this extensive change to something like the waist holler system has not been easy pfield it took um you say years for them to get to the end result of getting a major change in the system for trashing so yeah I guess when I look I'm right but I look at this I I you know there just a whole host of things that it seems like we as a committee should be thinking about and and again we can't do this all inone meeting or even but it's going to take some time but if we don't start uh planning about it and deciding we want to actually dig into some of these things we're just going to be waiting to see what what happens and I think that's that's kind of been the problem uh somewhat in in the past here um so for instance somebody or some we should be looking at at sample contracts um and and maybe the we'll start with Long Meadow um we should be we should be thinking about what what does it what do we want for a pay you throw a pay you throw fee structure what what are some models um you know what's what what do we thinking about in terms of the role of the transfer station um yes a consultant is going to help us a great deal on that but I think we need to do some really hard thinking and some Gathering Together of uh stuff where on that issue um the phasing in um how's that going to work um and I think the the report and I'm just looking at the eight elements on on the thing that we've all agreed to as a council and there seem to be some key pieces in there that we as a committee have got to get a bit more information and we have to do some more hard thinking about and some work I'm afraid uh otherwise this is going to continue to just so I guess it's again the question what can we do as a committee to move this along um and uh I'm I start with this motion that we passed and some of the pieces in it and um what are people willing to dig into um or not and what do they think we we we need to know more about before a consultant is hired um I just don't think we can wait until a consultant is hired to start thinking about you know the pay you throw fee structure contract language um you know uh Transportation role it's not that we're going to decide these things but we've at least gotten some sense of of what's involved what the issues are and maybe some information and and material that can be useful um and some gu give some guidance to a consultant as to where we're going um because that's what they're going to look for as soon as they come in the door they're going to say okay what do you guys want what what is it that you want um and if we just look at them and say well we want you to just hand them this motion and say we want you to do this that that's not going to work but but contract language I mean contract is not something that weird going to develop it uh contract is something we require staff to do okay so about the pays you thr fee structure what about uh you know do we want do we want curbside composting that's mandated yeah we we need to get input on that uh but the RFP is going to tell us some on that too um if you look back at the qu at the answers to questions that we for the council last week that we put together and sent out uh it uh you know the the options for pay as you throw I think that we pretty well know what they are we and we learned them from you know just read the D material uh you can have uh one size of container you can the and people pay extra for a second size and that may be what some vendors want um you could offer if if a vendor would agree to it um to have people choose the size of container and paid by the size of the container um what long metto does um is uh um they have the size of a container that they provide to everybody everybody gets the same size and then they um sell bags um that people can put next to their container and cassella for them goes through and will stop and pick up the bag the bag price um you know has to um compensate for that extra service um and is what how they Implement pay as you throw um there's some that used to exist that just aren't realistic anymore we already know from the RFI which is do it all with bags um but I you know I think some of this is would maybe maybe what I'm thinking is is something along the lines of of what we just uh discussed with the previous topic which is breaking some of this into smaller pieces and then putting part of a meeting uh focused on that particular topic um and in the purpose of generating eventually some kind of written piece something written that would be guidance to to certainly to to a consultant and might also help us in terms of our Outreach but it's just things we need to talk about and get get clarity on I think I think in order to for us to move forward with this um so uh you mentioned a whole bunch of possibilities for Pay As or throw uh well we need to sort of lay them out and and and I don't know I just I feel like this is and also with the role of the transfer station um uh the phasing aspect I mean they're just like four or five topics here that I think we need uh as a committee to to to dig into more um that we haven't done we just haven't done it um and but I may be alone in this maybe people don't feel that way so I just that's my concern yeah so I think that's the role of the consultant that we're hiring we're hiring a consultant to help the council make what we have been saying there is not staff time or support to help you make your decision on these major discussions with what you want to purchase what the what the bigger RFP does is what you want to purchase from a from one contractor to provide to the town and and there's a bevy of questions that you've been talking about all morning sort of in different circles right so I think what you the consultant is a staff person who will support you and say Here's your next set of questions that you have to answer do you want to keep the transfer station open or not do you know and here's how other towns do it here's here's some advice on it you make the decision so you it's you I think it's too much for the Comm honestly for the unless there's somebody who's saying I'm going to devote my next three months of my life to doing this I don't think anybody's stepping up to say that I think that's why you and it's a worthwhile investment in a consultant to come in and do that we don't have staff time to do that normally that's what town staff would do but this is not something that we've ever budgeted for in our budget or anything like that so that's why we will be coming to you asking you for funding to hire someone who will be and you know guilford's already been in touch with some folks to say is this something you could help our town with so um there'll be some some comes in say and they will help structure it for us much like we're doing the design review standards or the housing production plan or all those things we bring people in and they help structure it for the decision makers so I think that's what that's I I feel your frustration George but I think um there is going to be a process and it's you know if it's timely we get to April with an actual RFP with decisions having been made by the council I think some of these things will be TSO decisions and then it'll it'll elevate to the council ultimately so I guess Paul my question then is for you what can we do as a committee and maybe you've already answered this and you're just going to remind me but what can we do as a committee to best uh further this in for you um is it what what do you want us to be doing um if anything at this point so the next thing is to look at the RFP for the consultant right for the consultant like what do you want the consultant to do and qu one the key question is do you want them to do are you going to do the Outreach or or do you want the consultant to do Outreach when you do a district meeting do you need someone there to talk about what what this is or is it does every counselor feel confident in speaking about it again we don't have the staff support to to provide that normally we would have a someone to do that but um so but then if that gets built into the consultant's contract that drives up the price right because meetings are1 or $2,000 each um so you just have to decide what we want this consultant to do or if the counselor or coun is going to do the Outreach or who's going to be doing this Outreach business if you feel like that's important yeah I mean so Paul what I've said already you um and I've said Outreach really comes much later um you feel like perhaps like many others that somehow it has to come sooner but my point has been over and over again you can't do Outreach on a program that doesn't exist um the only thing that exists is this motion and some broad you know sense of where we're headed but the specifics are not there and they're not going to be there for quite some time so I don't see how yeah but maybe your thought is but still the RFP should have if we want it they should have language about they're going to have to do Outreach at some point I don't yeah so there two different approaches one is to do Outreach early and say what would you like to see right there that's version one version two is to say we're going to put together a plan and then come to you and say Here's what we've here's what we think we're going to do what do you think um and so there's just two different approaches one is to solicit information before you've developed the plan the other is develop the plan and then get reaction to it um it's and the council has to decide how it would like to move forward on those those two things I think you're like George you're you're more likely to say let's make a decision we're the educated elected officials let's let's before we do the RF before we go out to bid let's check with our constituents make sure that we're in we're in sync with them Jennifer I mean we can do both I know it one of the first Council meetings Dorothy Pam when we were and I had we invited a representative from zero W amers just to talk about the topic so it could still you know whether it's something the council agrees to do Outreach individually it's something each councelor could include in their district meeting agenda I don't disagree but the danger is that people will say things that are completely you know they're just wrong or they're just they they say we're going to do this we're going to do that in fact we haven't agreed to anything of the sort right um and and there is a written document that everyone has and on the council that can and that's all it is that's it and anything else that people add to it or or or interpreted is is just their you know so that's what I'm worried about is that you know I think we should do Outreach people should talk but please follow the scpt at least we could get a sense from our constituents of how they yeah what right yeah I mean some people may say I don't want to be you know have to compost I don't you know that's just not something I'm willing to do right yeah I guess I'm a little bit uncertain as to where your frustration is coming from because pick pay as you throw you was one of the two examples you gave and it's a major element is the question do we do pay as you throw I think we decided already that that's a key element right that's what the council voted and the options of how you do pay as you throw I think that we know from d and how we're going to get from the decision of what those various ways of doing U pay as you throw to which one is the right one for us it's partly a matter of knowing what the financial piece is that comes in with that and that's where I think we need to just you know ask the consultant um what H what what can we do to help narrow the the options or can the options be put out through the RFP I think that we just I'm not sure what else we can do right now um as far as uh compost uh collection I the biggest issue out there is uh know whether U it's going to be offered as an option or whether it's going to be something that is assumed that everybody is doing U and uh you know that and again we don't have the answer to that at the moment you know that that's it's a difficult one but I don't know that it's that complicated so what I'm hearing if I may is just that that essentially the the consultant is really going to be important and is going to be assisting Us in in shaping this and I just need to be patient um which I'm not and um uh fine I'll try to be more patient well your vacation will help you no it won't it won't it doesn't I'm this way no matter what um so I'm sorry it's just you're stuck the way I am but uh um I just yeah but this this is good I appreciate your patience with me tonight uh Jennifer had to deal with me at the council meeting on Monday night um I I I can certainly appreciate you know when a council works on something for two years and they theyve you know and they've had it before my committee uh and then they come to the council meeting and then I go but I it's helpful to me to really it's the big picture just trying to sit back and think okay what is this thing actually going to do um so it it but it's hard when it's your you've been working on something for so long but um that's just the way I work I'm sorry is there anything else we want to talk about on this or because otherwise we could get on to approval of the minutes that were there and uh uh see if there's any um where we are with next meetings in to journ U there was a minutes of our previous meeting that were in the packet uh and uh that was the meeting of August 29 2024 is everybody had a chance to look at it and if so there motion um I can move to that we approve the minutes of August 29224 motion there any second second from Jennifer um so let's proceed to a vote uh C Lord I uh councilor Ryan hi uh Jennifer Yes D me yes so it's 4 to zero with one member absent doz minutes have been approved um I think that we uh have the next meeting that's uh on our schedule is uh 2 weeks from now and uh we know that uh councelor Ryan will be away at that point and it's unavailable uh the uh agenda would be any um to pick up on the discussion we just had about waste Haller if there is anything that we can move do to assist with moving along the um Quest question that uh of the RF the request for consultant services and I'll talk with Paul about that and see if we can if we can have that discussion if it's helpful to have that on the agenda in a couple of weeks and uh the other thing that's obvious is the uh next steps with the transportation parking commission are there any other issues that people would make requests on that agenda if there are any please send them along Athena um I think we will have Angela was checking to see if the planning board had made a recommendation for their representative to CAC if they have then uh hopefully the town manager will have an appointment memo for you at the next meeting and then the I'm I'm not sure if you touched on this um I was back and forth ping on other things um but the town manager will have an appropriation request for the consultant services at some point um that and that will go through from the council to the finance committee for approval so that's going to be important step for the council um before a consultant is hired may ask a question about that Athena um the request for appropriation would not come to TSO though right it would go to the council and uh it will be a council decision um it's it's more the nature of the language which is something and's going to be talking to Paul about so as far as TSO is concerned yeah so the so we'll do um not be agenda yeah not up not for TSO the appropriation request will go to the council and then finance committee will need to review and report on it we have to do um public forum on it before there's approval and so on so I think that was part of the thinking behind the the slower set of dates in that timeline that lineer is the assumption that the request was to coincide with when the free CR cash transfers are made at the point after freecash is certified right Paul's nodding last time I spoke with Holly she said that we hope that that happens in October but it is certified when it's certified um so that then when I put the schedule initially together that was the Assumption I was making Jennifer um so the appropriation for the consultant would it be in two parts like if the um an amount if the consultant is just going to work on the RFP versus the RFP and do Outreach because there'll be two very different amounts I would imagine depending on the scope of what the consultant would be asked to do I think that's what we were going to when I was mentioning next meeting meeting if we do anything on waste holler it's probably just going to be focusing on that scope issue if it's helpful to have that discussion uh I think it would be because I think that's I mean with you certainly you know input from the town manager uh you know because what we request that Council will have different will have a different response if it's a smaller amount versus a larger amount uh okay anything else um there's one additional item I may add to the packet of this meeting and I'll let you know that I did and that is a uh piece it's from D website on the process that we're uh getting in and I have looked at it uh is and if it seems helpful looking at it again I think I might be inclined to put it in it just gives you some thinking about um all that we're trying to do and how they've thought through this thing they actually had a consultant that developed it for d u but since it comes from a you know comes from a state agency I'm not particularly concerned about just putting it in uh so with that I think a motion to adjourn would be the right thing to do second all right so it's made and seconded uh Council Lord I uh George hi uh Jennifer yes and I'm a yes so it's four to zero we have voted to adjourn thank you all thank you