hi welcome so this is the August 1 meeting of the transportation advisory committee for ammer we currently have a quorum um I guess we should go ahead and make that announcement I can say it if you want okay sure that'd be great pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law uh this meeting of attack is being being conducted via remote participation okay all right so get started um all right so okay so let's just go ahead for Amber we'll go ahead and just um do a roll call so then Amber can I can just tell her who's here and everybody can just say that they can hear and be heard Tim tremble here so Tracy Zan here Marcus Smith here Stefan CH here all right and we have special guest rob kustner you can talk to right Rob I can but I muted myself unusually but okay and uh we're and Guilford Waring is facilitating okay thank you so um so Rob had uh reached out to me recently and talking about the Massachusetts Central rail trail and how northamp had uh passed a resolution recently just saying that they would support completion of the trail and uh they're you know they're reaching out to other communities along the trail as well and so Rob was interested to see if Tac would like take some action too or just say that we you know if we're in favor of it and then it would also go there would be a an ammer version of the resolution that would go to the council for approval so Rob take it away hey F first thanks Tracy Guilford uh let me see who else Kimberly and Marcus who I haven't met before although I think I've heard of you uh Guilford it's good to see you again um I'm also down on a farm no potatoes just a lot of grass and a huge amount of apples and I've been doing that all day picking the summer apples okay um back to Massachusetts now from Pennsylvania and North Carolina the mass Central rail Trail in the amoris to Northampton area is known better as the we're the first of in fact we're the first 12 miles of the trail here and we're also first chronologically we we started here in the early 1990s and uh the trail though extends from mile zero at Northampton to mile 104 near near uh North Station in Boston and uh quite a bit of of it about 2third is now either constructed or under under construction as a multi-use path as a bike path but also obviously like the nurotic used by all sorts of other folks and I think in places it will probably remain not as an asphalt paved trail but as stoned us so probably even accommodate equestrians anyway the um there are 26 municipalities along the Trail and what this is about is getting support for Resolutions from each municipality as well as perhaps some that are nearby to share with h their State Legislative U Representatives senators and members of the uh uh guess it's called The Great and general court uh of Massachusetts the the the representatives and in amoris Mindy and Joe I guess would be our Representatives but anyway each of the community uh is being asked to draft and hopefully the councils will then approve a resolution that would go to uh both our reps and also to the governor's office um I'm here not just as individual but I'm a member of actually was a former president of a nonprofit known as noric Network which encompasses representatives from across Massachusetts we have folks from the Boston area in the middle the Commonwealth and quite a few from out here as well um I was the president of it uh between 2020 and 202 one of the founders of this back in the year 2000 uh along with some folks who are no longer around like art Swift who I've had other distinguished roles John K uh Chamber of Commerce uh executive director for a while arur Francis who no longer lives in amoris was the one who really took the initiative to get this and several other folks who've moved on to other things Craig delapena is one of them who's one of the founding members is the current president from Northampton and uh we managed to get Northampton to adopt a resolution um last month and that's what I believe Tracy shared with you as a model and uh there's some Amor Centric things we might include um and I'm happy to draft div verion for the council but what I'm basically seeking today is your um actually I put it your recommendation that we do something like this Council since you're an advisory committee I thought it would be good to start with you Tracy and I have worked together for years long ago before there's a attack there was Town transport committee which I was a member of and I chaired it and vice chaired it long long long ago last Millennium I also was the chair of the or maybe still am even the chair of the advisory committee for the dcr's advisory committee that oversaw the redesign and rebuilding of the norada starting I guess it was 18 years ago back 2006 and took about a decade to get just that redesign and reconstruction completed so it's a big project and what we've done is we've this nonprofit that I've been a member of for 25 years now uh what we've done is we've raised several hundred, dollar to help acquire sections of the of the the right of way to um basically do studies of of um basically work that needs to be done Bridge bridges that have to be replaced and so forth but we need to get basically the Commonwealth and the federal government to help support the final reconstruction and the construction of the completed Trail and um one thing that we did was we raised U I think it was it was a good fraction of $100,000 to do a study of the economic impact of completing the trail and what it found was that you know the the dollars that it would take to actually complete compl the trail will be well rewarded by um transportation and other econom to the entire Commonwealth some of them in the area of Tourism and economic development to the central part of the Commonwealth obviously here in in amorist some people think we have a bit of bit too much too much student traffic and as a faculty member of UMass I I can tell you I never had a parking permit uh myself I've always biked to work or walked to work occasionally I've snuck in with my car hours when you're allowed to but it'd be really great to fulfill the promise of some of the um connections we have to the to the to the nortic and to the mass Central Trail as a whole it said the nortic is the Western most 12 miles of the mass Central Trail and have more folks it for uh for transportation I doubt we're going to be using expecting people to bike all the way from Boston to come to UMass but uh maybe someday with fast electric assisted bikes some people might try that I know we're going to do a ride later this summer at the end of the summer from from North to Boston on on the parts of the trail that are complete anyway so what I'm asking you guys to do if you haven't already looked at it if Tracy wants to put it up I can do that see whether we can recommend recommend a a resolution in the style of what Northampton city council adopted uh on the 11th of July and I'm happy to draft it maybe Tracy or any of you who want to have some input into what I'd be extremely grateful uh but we'll be one of 25 more communities that have yet to adopt it and even if we're not number one we could be number two because we can try harder so everybody say that I know Rob so you're you're coming in it a little bit with the sound I don't know if that's on my end my internet has been really sketchy lately does anybody else having that I don't know we can we can ask maybe if you get rid of your video or something if that helps but um so got some music on in the background would that maybe let's I don't know there was just some like interference type noise but but again my own connection I I reset my this morning because my connection was awful so no I was having some difficulty hearing him I mean I couldn't hear him it was like stuttering yeah could have just been me stuttering you know no I don't think you're all right so here's the resolution that went that was approved by Northampton you know just in terms of that uh the councelor you know has supported uh increasing safety making the more accessible walkable recycable many of these things are are are boiler plate it could be just taken up some some are specific to Northampton we we of course have UMass and the Swift connector which are particularly uh important for for amest itself and I think I would put in something like that and uh um yeah and then um you know how it aligns with like priorities and and so yeah I mean most of the Lang I mean except for you know some of the be it resolved the Northampton Council I mean so I I mean some of these updates are pretty easy to make um and I will say to Rob and I talked this morning um so the nor the rail trail goes through District Five on the Eastern end you know from um the center of amers like along the part that goes out to belter town that's all in District five um and then uh the part that cuts through ammer college then goes out to Northampton and like to Hadley that's District three so um it's I mean I know with resolutions right they all have to go through go I can also reach out to TSO to see if um consider you know there are members there are District 5 and District Street counselors on uh go and Tso so and I should say I've reached out to uh four counselors now one one is the president of the council because I I know I know many of the counselors and uh L Lynn Lynn has this resolution and she's on vacation now so I I emailed her a couple hours ago or hour ago before this meeting and I think I think she'll be on board with this um two of the councils I've spoken with are are not in the The District's mentioned but this is an all Massachusetts in fact it's some ways an all New England effort there's a large effort and and Rob you and I had talked too about how like I believe that the ammer Town Council already did a resolution previously supporting the trail like from an economic development perspective is that right and uh because there there had been a study done of the economic impact of having the trail that's and that's what what our organization funded yeah we appreciated the council doing that this is really this is really something that's a um it's really addressed to as you can see the be it further resolved at the at the very end uh it's really being addressed to Joe and to Joe cumerford and in our case Mindy and to basically the do and the governor's office and so forth I'm not sure the we'll have to figure out to whom else it's going to go but uh your advice on appreciate and I mean the you know the current Administration as well as the baker Administration was pretty supportive of expanding rail Trails rail trail access you know making increasing the percentage of people who live close to a trail and I mean since the new Administration came in right they've had a number of announcements about the grants that they've been funding for a rail trail expansion so is this so is this still short a lot of the money it needs or so a lot of the obviously the trail building tends to happen in Massachusetts it's the municipalities the towns and cities are the where most of the money gets spent um the DCR and the mass do are not only involved but they've they basically prepared plans at the moment it's essentially the the RightWay plans are available that was done a couple years ago we a promise from the DCR and excuse me from the dot to prepare basically build out plans so the kind of plans that a contractor would need to to actually complete the projects some of them are complicated they Bridges lots of lots of bridges further to the East and there's even a tunnel okay uh it's it's the old railroad line so that those have to be retrofitted to accommodate high schol and pedestrians but but that's a big project it's it's the design work is actually there's money in the budget now for DOT to do that and U but it's going to cost quite a bit to actually build out the stuff and uh I think this is a way to try to help help that process along okay so does anybody have do any members have any questions or I mean I think we need to push this um I assume a lot of it this sort of incentive will come from Grants to the municipalities to do this is there a an idea to kind of um Market the rail trail kind of like the WOD and DC where it's more as like a des you know not just for traveling to places but you could you can do act things along the way or like the CN Canal Trail where you can go camping you know along the way and that sort of thing yeah Marcus that's exactly so cra Craig delapena among other things he was a former railroad guy but he he operates a bed and breakfast at mile minus three I guess in in Florence and uh he he's he's very attuned to this I hope it's not just for his own interest he's not gonna get much business from this but but he's aware he's he's professionally he's a real but he he basically buys Cor you he makes sure it's available and then it's given to the to the Commonwealth public entity so he he's been he's been essentially a land conservator to make Trails happen he used to be the communications director for the rails Trails conserv now Rob if you know the Rails to Trails movement it's largely so it's largely looking in the way you describe it to attract people from not only locally but from around the world actually to to use this as a you little touristic and exploration you know uh as well as practical transportation between for example would it be something that could be made into like a state park in the end it so the DCR of course already owns the right of way between Northampton and amorist and yeah probably more of it would come under the just of the of the DCR which is a state park they they state parks okay and and I don't think like Marcus had asked about like local funding but I it does it doesn't rely on local funding right the funding is all at the state level because it is it would be given grants to the local funding GRS yes typically that's the way it would work although the DC Marcus the DCR um and mass do provided the funding and managed the Reconstruction the redesign reconstruction for for the because it was over it was three municipalities actually slightly into belter town so four municipalities and I think that'll be the model more and more but but the idea is that this is not just a single rail trail it's a network it's our nonprofits robotic Network and there lots of things bike paths like lanes and things that are link to it and I think that's where additional grants to municipalities will um to have the municipalities improve the linking infrastructure so K you're muted unmute yourself yeah Rob who um maintains you know the rail trail like who's responsible for that right I mean I noticed like for example in parts of Northampton um yeah through Northampton where there're like rout you know Roots have maybe made humps in the rail Trail they're highlighted or you know occasionally things wash out and what have you like so the D the DCR maintains Its Right of Way in Northampton does and in fact W things washing away I biked I biked out to a doctor's appointment in the Florence just a couple weeks ago and I was surprised how rough the trail was west of Mile zero so it's really not the ra the MCR but it's it's there Northampton Greenway or or whatever they call it there that one that one apparently had a big not just a wash out but there was some sewer work that need to be done it was just finished and Northampton has a big Grant again it was a grant to the city of Northampton to to repave the trail all the way out to the Western end I guess near luk Park perhaps it's even to the edge of Willi so so it'll be good but you identified an ongoing problem which is or not just something we have to live with there are trees and the trees have roots and The Roots do lift the asphalt and you know we we're a continue dance with the tree roots and but DCR is in charge of this I think what'll happen is municipalities unless they if they own the underlying land they'll be in charge of maintenance if the DCR were to take it over as a state park then DCR would have that responsibility eventually it may happen I think once it's connected it's very likely be a DCR maintain project okay well thank you Rob so um I mean it sounds like um Rob is gonna be updating the resolution to bring it to um to the council and to go and um I just saw that the council president L grimer just emailed back and said she's happy to co-sponsor the resolution and Shepherd it through go as a go member so that should help and that it could it could be taken up um it it could be taken up she said you know by September so you had talked about adding a whereas related to the transportation advisory committee or something so I think that that I mean we could Wonder we we could have a motion to do that um Kim yeah I would I I mean I think we should we should try to custom I I mean Rob obviously has the most expertise in this but we also understand our transportation situation here in town so perhaps after he um uh uh revises it in a Amor Centric manner we could also maybe add you know a few tiny little bits just to help it make sense for our um our overall grand plan in town and then pass it along to the council so I make yeah I uh suggest we do that well hold on yeah I mean um here so I mean I did just start I'll just show like I just as we're talking I just started uh and then we can all agree on it and just um I just said here right like whereas the transportation committee yeah know discussed discuss I mean we can just we can just we can just say support the completion of the the completion of the of the you know the mass Central rail trail I mean I'm just trying to get the words out you know you type mcrt is good yeah I know um for you know for accessibility safety safety and you know promotion of bicycling walking Bic B bicycling walking and you know rail trail commuting you know bike P alter alternative transportation motorized vehicles commuting and you know and and also you know rail trail tourism cuzz I mean I really feel like right you go to the cape the cape C Cape Cod does a great job of marketing like to what Marcus was talking about tourism Cape Cod like everybody well a lot of people have been on the cape cot rail trail it's superm marketed right they have maps and they promote everything around the rail trail and I mean and that Economic Development study showed how much of an impact the other Trails have like this this cross state Trail has um so it would be good if you know know there were other there was promotion outside of the cape if you will outside of Martha's Vineyard and because I've also you know biked on Martha's Vineyard and I mean there are maps and things out there the regional planning commissions have made maps and but it's still just the promotion piece of it like how positive it is so I'm looking on the interactive map it seems like Horizon I guess between Rutland and Holden is a bit interesting but I mean there certainly places you know by what you certain and yeah everywhere where we could have through yeah opportunities for making it something right have people do the rail the mass Central rail trail every a couple of days and that sort of thing yeah yeah love I love the idea of um um um baking to a campsite I love that well and I one rail trail I really liked it was in Minnesota it was called The Root River Trail and it went from Community to community and it was like connected with like camping and b&bs and stuff and you could do it and there were Trails also in Wisconsin when I lived in Wisconsin like the Elroy Sparta Trail you know again there's like multiple segments of it and they're all like promoted as um tourism right in New York you have the Erie Canal you have like places I mean people really do like a lot of people really do prefer you know for recreational tourism purposes to be on off-road Trail like trails that aren't in the middle of the road um and so it's always going to draw and it draws a lot of like just like the Cape Cod Trail R it draws a lot of families and kids and I mean it's just so much nicer that's almost like a a ghost Trail right you can go from the Northampton school to the Bel toown State School to you know all of these kind of nasty places there's the Rutland prison camp all sorts of things well we don't need to could be a movie a movie set right even now Hampton like as I think Kim was saying right when you're in Northampton on King Street there's all those rail like the rail trail signs like some of it is a signage and right you can connect from Amerson Northampton to East Hampton or you can go out to like Florence you can go to L Park I mean there's so many connections there so yeah by the way do a lot more the the other project we're involved with is the Northampton to New Haven line so you know not only can people bike to Boston if they want to biking to New Haven and I guess on to New York and Philadelphia in the mix too well I mean there's a whole like East Coast Trail right all the way to Florida and things but yeah I'm saying this is I think this would be the most attractive part of it's beautiful yeah for sure such a such a connection and the farmland and everything um so uh do we want to Kim was this kind of what you were thinking or would you see that we could also add other warehouses well I was just thinking that we just help like look at whatever um Rob I mean I was just thinking that we could enhance with our community specific Transportation knowledge whatever it is that Rob ends up sure so I think that one way we could do it right is um just with open meeting law is we could take some kind of like vote today like some motion and vote to support it and then for open meeting law you know once Rob has drafted and I think he's going to turn it around pretty quickly so that it gets to go and then it gets to the council and I don't know if to TSO wants to weigh in as well but the um then it could I mean we could distribute it to Tac members we just couldn't all like have a conversation about it so if people had comments we just have to go like right back to like Rob or something so by the way there something when I saw how quickly Tracy typed that in I may edit it have I'm an editor math journals but I with your with your permission if you'll permit the chair to help Rob oh yeah I can help Rob I can help Rob and then we can distribute it specifically the things the things that I suggest we include are something related to UMass yeah and the Swift connector um ammer College I should mention if you go to their page that has the information about their nearly five billion doll endowment they have a nice public web page and you know what the illustration is it's the nortic rail trail right through the campus I mean em College basically straddles the biggest segment of the trail as far as that's true the trail perhaps you want ammer college to endorse it as well but well anyway I'm hoping what I'm hoping for is they'll actually help pay for it I see their students on it all the time it is a big attraction for all and I also think too like once the Valley Bike Share or whatever whatever it's going to be called when it comes back once it's up and running again like that is a huge way for people for UMass students ammer college students to get from campuses like out to the malls to Northampton and so on that there is a lot and Kim I just wanted to say hello I'm so really sincerely apologize that's fine and Chris I did see you and Amber note that Chris is here and she's been here for a couple minutes so she came around six but thank you for being here and um yeah I really apologize no absolutely that's fine um and okay so so Rob I I think why don't you and I we can also work offline but can we just take a motion as a committee I'd be happy to share once Robin and I have coordinated offline I'd be happy to share okay so I that we support the um the rail trail um um what is resolution resolution resolution and the creation of a similar resolution for ammer right cor yes correct and so this is a resolution that would be taken to each of the college Boards of Trustees as well as to the town of ammer well it's I think Rob said there's about 25 towns along the trail and the town okay great so Christine thanks by the way nice to meet you are you on the phone is that what I'm seeing yes oh can you see me well I just see a now I see a I don't want you to see me because I'm a bit haired and sweaty it's okay it's okay but just it's it's good it just it's it's a different Zoom experience say say I think the I think the colleges and U so forth will be a different tier for this and and there will be other communities that aren't actually straddling the trail that are weighing in by say community municipalities that are weighing in and this is really addressed to our representative yeah sure well and if you look at that Northampton resolution right it does say that it goes to like Joe comford like in our casee we would send it to Mindy Dom and like other we could even send it to our you know Congressional legislators and so on so so should we um vote on so we can just like I mean so I was just using that General language that um Kim was saying that we support that resolution and the passage of a simmer resolution for ammer yes all those in favor all those in favor all right let's just like take a roll call vote just Kim so Kim Kim I okay Chris I right and Stefan are you still here he was here yes here okay and um so that's all Tracy ey five five to zero great all right wonderful it's nice to okay I can't believe I once was a member of something a predecessor this it seems like Millennium ago I think Kim weren't you on that too weren't you I probably overlapped a tiny bit with Rob actually but that's that's nice it's been a long time on it when art Swift was on it I think and art Swift was a chair once right I was a chair and you know I'm famous for vice so I was the vice chair yeah so all right thanks Rob so I'd like to move on just gonna move on if if you want if you're talking about Amity street I'm happy to just stick around but I will I will mute so okay sounds good and maybe we were really having trouble hearing you you can feel free to and Tracy I saw I saw something about the um the uh TR the um railroad line too I don't know if Rob could Pro provide some kind of update in terms of like what was actually included in the Statewide budget for East West rail Chris can we actually have that conversation a different time I would like to talk about um the roundabout of Amity and we know we like to end our meetings promply at 7 because we start having a lot of attrition as everybody says they got to go to dinner they got to go their families and everything um I did yes I mean the governor's budget did appr get approved I mean maybe we can invite the Palmer people back or a Rob or something I would love to talk about that more another time yeah because I couldn't quite tell if the funding for the um because then how do we actually get ammer Rehabilitation funding if funding for the Palmer station was there that part was unclear so it might make sense to that would be I would agree I agree okay Guilford are you available to talk about the um roundabout yep let me turn it on that'd be great yeah please and I didn't know Guilford 2 like it looked like the drawing that was included with the memo that went to the coun you know the council from you and the town manager like that that sketch was that actually like um a um sketch or was that your sketch actually you oops UMass is actually Concepts okay eass has funded all the design for this all right got it so I know that like when G um when Jason skills met with us um at the last T meeting like he also had um he had you know the the engineering drawings of like it seemed like it had sort of more details than some of which in this but maybe maybe I read it but did he did he go over it with you he did he went over it like each section he talked about things that weren't included in the memo including like um striping the bike Lanes at the intersections and other elements but I I realize of course that could be farther along too and that these UMass plans have been you know were developed a while ago right I mean my understanding yes was that they're not like brand new so but we we have done some updates um okay great so do you want to see yeah can you please share and maybe just talk about the project can you see it yes you see so you see the roundabout drawing you don't see anything else you're not supposed to see no okay good is that your sweet potato plans for the next year no oh okay good we let them we let them choose what they want to they'll probably they'll probably do soybeans next year can you uh zoom in a little bit please we can make this a little bigger hold on this is Amity and University right yeah let me Orient you yeah ask which way is North I think it's to the right is that right North goes to the right the University Drive goes to the right Amon Street goes up and down the this corner to the the left upper corner is actually where the pot store is which is going away and then hanger The Hanger is on the left bottom left yeah okay so this is the roundabout this is the revised drawing this is not what was presented to the Town Council because we actually added a crosswalk here at the top at the top of the page and we added the sidewalk right there so the go so the goal is to just take the intersection and turn it into a roundabout to kind of slow traffic down and actually let it flow better um it flows really poorly when the traffic signal is there and there's little traffic um and if well nothing nothing flows through it when there's a lot of traffic it's really slow well and there's and there's no like right turn lane like I'm sorry left turn lane you know for example like end of day commuter traffic that's on University Drive North going south right so there's it's it seems like there's backups there and yeah there's no there's no left turn Lanes at all so all four legs will back up as someone's turning off exactly and there and there's also issues with the signals I don't I don't know as somebody who drives through it a lot but good so the goal is to just take the signals out and then put this roundabout in and then connect everything with sidewalks do you do you guys know where the new apartment's going in isn't that down the street I mean it's supposed to be going no it it's going to the pleasantry space yeah so it's in it's this shaded area it says building oh building oh they got rid of it oh okay 42 units so This Is 40 42 units of housing there's a rumor there's going to be a restaurant now it's not all approved yet is it has it all gone through all the review it has not okay yeah I mean I think planning planning board has reviewed it some but I didn't know if there were decisions okay so this this is the goal um the driveways actually the driveways actually go away right um on Amy Street and they actually go away on University Drive there there's a driveway actually there isn't one on University Drive but the um the service road goes away because the service road is actually on private property so the whole is a service road going to go away the length of the service road or just for the segment of it just on this one property so this one property includes like the whole that whole building that include andant trees but then it also has like the real estate office and the insurance office and and then what's the next thing after that and no it's just going to be the building that has Cheryl Nina the insurance offices right right that building in the pleasantries goes away but the one next to it that the which is um isn't that where they have like um and the bike exchange and the Ry I think things that's further down though right that's right next to it isn't it anyway the service road will be remain right yeah there's kind of a vacant lot between this lot these two lots and yeah and there were some plans originally I mean I remember looking back maybe around like 2005 or some like there were plans to like change like to get rid of the whole um Access Road originally there were I'm not yeah I'm not worried about that are good but uh questions um that come to mind the North West corner of that roundabout where are those uh what's the reasoning for that um foot path because there's no foot path that goes beyond that up on University right it's all Wetland there so what's the kind of reasoning for that are you looking just to cross the road up there yeah well this this new building with the housing units yeah it goes all the way to the Town Line just about right so there'll be an exit this building farther west and they can walk down the sidewalk in front of the building and instead of backtracking around they can just cross here and then go down and cross over okay but then you've got the you've got the bleed Lane that goes beyond those Crossings right or what I call a bed I I know the um is that a bike path part to it just below your cursor right here so that's the crossing but then you've got the bit above it this here and that's the sorry to the right of that is follow that that bit right there yeah that's the chicken lane yeah okay that's a CO name what does it mean the chicken lane this SC to go around the roundabout this this is for bicyclists who want to get off the road and not go through the right like the like we've got those a little bit on the um triangle Street roundabout yes right now I did have a question about looking again at that what that sidewalk on the northwest that's going from from the Padley section of Amity right over to University Drive this the north one is um so the bus stop there's currently a southbound bus stop on North University Drive I believe it's a little past this so will there be a pedestrian I realize that that's going to be like UMass property I guess but is there gonna I I thought that part of the plan and part of the reason to have the crossing here right because there's no crossing here currently correct like the crossing is here and it's here and there isn't even a crossing here I mean I'm sorry I'm I'm Mark I'm I'm viewing it and I'm doing it with my mouse and you can't see what I'm doing but but there's a Crossing on the town side of AMD and there's a Crossing on like the South University Drive and those are the only two Crossings currently and they we don't have the other two Crossings um right these will be so so is there going to be something along on the on the west side of North University just like for the a foot area like accessing the bike the bus the bus stop no right because the bus stop I mean just for accessibility like if we're GNA build a sidewalk here like I feel like it would also ideally be extended so that it can go to the bus stop and then for example like any person with Mobility challenges or anything would have because currently right now the bus stop is just grass and there's not any benches or anything I even see people on the curve Tracy I think guilford's pointer is near a bus pull off yes the bus the the southbound bus stop moves through the intersection to right here oh it's not going to be up on the North End of the intersection oh and then the the the northbound bus stop still stays where it is now and that has a bit of a pull off well that has a pull off now that's what this is okay and so what are you I'm just thinking like on AMD what are the the islands are they raised structures or are they just painted not the central island the feta these islands yeah they're they're raised okay I just feel you know given the offset of the roundabout people might just end up trying to fly on through but if you're raising it then it will at least discourage that yes it's raised so are they are they raised in a way that they can be driven over by like trucks so they're not like totally flat but like a little bumpy but still um where you where you see these islands here and here and at each of the crosswalks they are raised and trucks do not have to drive across them you'll you'll see some little like painted areas here those are those are the areas you will see trucks tracking across okay and Guilford is the middle part raised as well or is it um similar to the triangle Street roundabout in terms of the middle so the middle you have the truck apron which is this brick part here that's the truck apron truck apron okay and then yes this part here is raised and it could be uh UMass has some plans for that let me see if I uh I thought they're going to wreck a giant sculpture there some former bicycle committee chair I heard it was gonna be Lord Jeffrey emmer personally oh who made that that's pretty UMass well this is from um's consultant nice so this is rendering this will be the center Island but they're talking about putting something else here not trees so I mean I do worry sometimes right because it seems like a few of our roundabouts or maybe I noticed something there Atkins too that there are some larger trees in the middle of the roundabout doesn't can't that obstruct the views it it it does that's the point no but also but I'm also saying just for okay I mean it seems like it's safer if you can see the whole thing but no no no no no because then you think it's you can go through it yes you want to have an obstruction so you go around it so this rendering though it doesn't have the fourth crosswalk no doesn't have the fourth one and so that that stuff that's like where that white car is on the isn't that Wetland are you guys going to have issues with that no the the Wetland is back in this area back here okay all right cool excuse me so I'm sorry so are we looking on this drawing if you go to the right are you looking North or South because where the sign is is a sign moving yeah does the sign move yeah the sign's moving over this is the this is North University okay I got it this is South University this is going into ammer this is going into Hadley and you're not taking that house out on the corner are you uh no the that's private property I know but like I don't know about that house but be pong that's what you where you stopped for beer pong on your journey but wait gilf you never um finished the um the comment regarding where the main entrance and exit for the new 42 unit housing complex is going to be is it going to be on University further down you know towards Big gilf you just went on your email but okay I just did that that was weird yeah so all right so here this is the corner of the new Housing Development right so you know where the Town Line is and at ammer so that's going to be the entrance to the new Housing Development so it'll be farther away from this intersection I me end is is isn't the Town Line because when you're on that road and it becomes Rocky Hill Road is isn't it sort of where the the road Narrows and there's Wetlands on both sides like the actual what the back entrance that's already there pretty much right right well there's a few entrances and I the furthest back one is pleasantries had been complaining about this people would cut through sometimes M um H sorry hold on let me get you let me get you a map of the oh and then a followup on the um the vehicle entrance and egg yes I think we lost Christine that's no she's here yeah no I think she just lost her voice oh I could yeah so this is the intersection we're talking about North is up South is down yeah these are the two lots that are going to be developed so the entrance to the new building is going to shift this way to the property oh even further west okay and then there's going to be an entrance exit lined up here okay so in line with the hanger yes okay so they're going to take on that Wetland part one 13 B27 they're actually yeah he owns all three of these okay so in the in the renderings right in the one you just showed us the really pretty consultant one it had the bus it had a bus shelter for the that's the existing one that's the existing there is no bus shelter there now well I mean they want a current stop but then is there going to be one on the southbound too I imagine so everyone but that see that's like UMass could be funding the one on the north but then the south is that's more but um Transit pvta question I guess but well pvta just gives us the bus shelters and we put okay uh who so yeah so who's providing the the money for this then this this project is it all state funded we're hoping to get a grant from the state to fund it otherwise it's probably not going to move forward okay makes sense now so the disability access committee had asked about some of the Crossing and making them more straight you know than these angled Crossings is it they want more perpendicular yeah yeah so the one on the south like that's nice and short so that one actually we can't really see it with the trees but that they all have islands like all four of the approaches have those little Islands which is great um but they are are angled a bit can they be straighter they can be just you just mean you have to pull it back so uhuh you'll have maybe you have a little you have farther as pedestrian to walk so they just get pulled back I mean I think just for the I mean for example the one at triang you know some of the crossings at triangle like are these really challenging ankles just in terms of like if you are visually impaired or completely you know blind that it's not very intuitive for you to have to go through islands and turn and things and so um I mean I I support um I talked to I mean I I reached out to the chair of the disability access advisory committee and it seemed like you you were open to um moving the back a little which I just think that there's so much to be gained by doing that just for that access yeah town of amus needs to update its satellite imagery we actually have it but you can't see it so who's is that lot that's to the north nor West then you've got marked off there is that state this slot here yeah that's right yeah okay yeah yeah actually I'll zoom out sorry I'll zoom out and actually this has taken a while ago because I was in this intersection recently and the crosswalk markings are almost completely gone and here too 10 20 years ago I think this is like I think this is like our 2005 imagery um 2016 year I'm not too sure according to your copyright at least anyway let's see um maybe sorry go ahead oh I was just curious is there going to be a pedestrian or cyclist entrance separate from the motorist entrances to that complex to the um housing new Housing Development um there is let me find and pleasantries you know they built they did a lot of landscaping and they made a very nice path that wasn't there before yeah they did um and they also which I was very happy and I emailed them about is they also were really great about shoveling their sidewalk which most of the businesses along that section of University Drive do not shovel their sidewalk and their private plows plow the snow onto the path it's all about the clientele Tracy so so if you look at this drawing you can actually see the sidewalk this is all going to be sidewalk in front of the building okay so you got the indents on the entry yeah yeah right right and then there's some on this side as well all all this parking that's on the street side now goes away all the parking's in the back and this is Green Space and sidewalk along am Street that's cool so every time there's an indent pretty much right based on the bottom yeah yeah and then um can you tell us a little bit about so the signage so it's just it's sort of share the road sign is is that what it is because it's all like bike pad bike pad bike no this is just the best sheet that shows the sidewalks and everything so it just no I just meant with the signage what kind of signage is there uh for the crosswalks yes they're multi bike and head on both so are there going to be um is there are there going to be any like rfbs or anything like that at it I don't work here much longer so if you want them you can have them I'm sorry what really by the time this is done I won't be here so I mean I do I mean I do feel like like the the roundabout that's at fearing you know is small and it has less tra it has the university traffic you know heading towards University and leaving the campus but this also has not only University traffic but a lot of town traffic including people accessing Hadley to from Hadley and I mean I I do think it can right along University Drive the the university section of it right they have added a bunch of the rfbs and I I would encourage them to have some of those for The Crossings concluding the fact that they will be used at night right I thought you said rfps I was like oh okay no no no the RSD yeah the rapid flashing beacons yeah yeah yeah I don't need to have them I didn't know if you need to have them at all four but no I would think you need to do it out of town right so on the town side of and in the univers on both sides of univers think Marcus's point I'm not really sure that you need that sidewalk on the northwest no I do see it now but not not really so much because where are you going right because so you're going to the you're going to the new place right that's the thing yeah from from campus so you're going from campus and that's why exactly but you still need to do two Crossings it's just not it's not three Crossings I guess but anyway it's more direct right if you're coming from campus and you're going to that building especially if you're going on that side of that building and you take the chicken lane or you get off and whatever you're I think it's more for people with bikes than anything else exactly yeah right including the people who use the valley bikes who don't have helmets and they don't always have a lot of biking experience and well I mean not I'm not getting that specific no no no I'm just saying I mean there's a lot of traffic there that's bikes even though there's the signs on the um section of the art Swift extension which I've always been a little find a little ironic but UMass has put up no bike signs on it because they want people to use the bike lane in the road so if you look at the the drawings each of these signs is an R rrfb okay I wasn't sure yeah yeah they called wow that's awesome that's awesome so and Jason had brought up um at the last meeting and I am interested in this too just about how I know for accessibility right it's good to have the audible signals but then at pal maroy for example when I've been there like the audible signals are going all the time even you know kind of all day and night whether or not there's people crossing and I mean I do wonder about I mean I haven't reached out to anybody you know in the community and I know like the commission of the blind the massachusett commission of the blind can sometimes be a resource for that but sort of like what's the best practice like is it best practices to have them beeping all the time that seems sort of excessive there is no best practice there's a regulation that says they will be on at all times I mean there are really no houses except for that no that's true um so you have to have them you have to have them going all the time it just you know and as you said Kim right there's no residential except for the house on the corner except yeah and house on am they sleep they're awake all night anyway so they are a good place to stop when you're walk into a football game because they're very very invied they're very welcoming to even older people and on the on the University side of their property right north of the house they have the couches they have like the big screen TV they put out there they got the fire yeah a good place man yeah it's pretty quiet there it's pretty quiet there right now but you know they'll be back so all right um yeah can we just put a like a I guess we just put a thing to say that we we want this and we want it now and we support it and yeah we support it with the utmost um yeah and I mean especially if the house project goes forward which I don't even think it doesn't it doesn't matter that's not a driver for well but if you don't if you don't have if you don't have the housing on the North side you don't you don't need that North sidewalk that Northwest sidewalk yeah I mean that that's like a a minute part of the whole thing right right I mean the whole the the fact the bigger picture of this is that we get a roundabout in here which has been sure like is years out of date I mean yeah years in the wanting so Tracy's right we we did a design for this intersection actually the whole Corridor and we had like three roundabouts down the corridor between here and Route n yeah and um we just had no money for it to keep doing work can I um H one suggestion and I just don't know how this works but you know um the um bikes take full Lane signs I think those are really important in all these roundabouts because I have seen in countless times and I actually got hit by a car once by some car in the intersection at triangle Street um by a car trying to go around me when I was too far over to the right in in the roundabout um and so I think those signs really balen cyclist to take the full Lane and also tell cars that in the middle in the road takes a l no I mean I mean and we talked about that and I think gilf I probably emailed you when I didn't realize you were on vacation but the one down at like Stefan had heard from somebody about pomoy I think right and do we supposed to be there but they aren't right I mean last time I was there I didn't see them and I and I think that there I mean I think there have been some like bike crash like crashes with vehicles at because because cars try to like literally go around you and there is not enough room and I literally had someone hit me once like hit my my um my handlebars and I was just like what the hell were they trying to do you know really the one one thing I worry about just I mean I've seen at the triangle intersection I've heard anecdotally from pedestrians as well as drivers who have stopped for pedestrians is that coming out of some of the roundabouts it is some drivers tendency to want to like speed up right they had to slow down a lot to get through the roundabout I mean that's one reason that the roundabouts are safe and they don't have there are very few fatalities at single Lane roundabouts like in the whole country right because car I mean there can be fender benders and people can hit the curbs and things like that but like people are not dying at these intersections um but that I mean I know cars that have been rear ended downtown after the after coming out of the roundabout they stop for pedestrians at the first pedestrian Crossing and like people are in a hurry and they are accelerating and they don't want to stop and um so yeah I mean if and I'm assuming they'll be like the signage in advance but if there's if there's ways to discourage that um so I so it sounds like we would take a motion like in favor of this project and as as Marcus says it's you know been talked about for a long time it will make a huge Improvement for safety as well as for traffic flow which is a mess right now with as we talked about the left turns um and I I like Kim's idea about it you know encouraging like B take the full Lane signs um and I do I would personally support to the disability access advisory committee request to like back them up a little and make them straighter The Crossings just so that it's easier yeah for people and I and it doesn't seem I don't know Gilford I mean you wouldn't have to back it up too far right the only issue is when you back it up you actually allow more than one car to be between the cross I see what you're saying right just to your point about the um stopping yeah yeah there it just gives you too much stacking distance in there sometimes you get two cars in there ah which can be dangerous to the um pedestrians right yeah um it's it's just the way the way roundabouts Were Meant to function is is that the car comes up the car comes up to the pedest crosswalk and then moves forward and you can yield again and one whole car fits in that area oh the second car is pretty much guaranteed the stop outside or closer to outside the The Pedestrian way that's kind of so but you're just going to have maybe two cars being in this little queue area with the sidewalk farther back so I mean did I mean I get I mean there are guidances right about there is accessibility and roundabouts and I don't know I know that the disability access advisor committee always advises to like reach out to as I said like the mass commission the blind or other I mean I wonder like kind of what the what the balance is there um and then the Cur backing them up and and so one issue right with the triangle roundabout is I mean are we going to need to have like wide turning lanes because that's one thing I think that's one challenge at the triangle roundabout that the ones from like East Pleasant nor you know like on campus like coming down towards the center of town is that there's that really wide Lane to turn on to I guess that's also like triangle to turn onto triangle just so for the emergency vehicles and so on and I think it can be one it can encourage people to go faster but it can also be sort of confusing about what that space is it's Mark you know it's p the pavement is striped but are do you need to have given that this is like a do you need to have like wider turning lanes for like the larger Vehicles here or is that not going to be a thing I mean they seem to do okay at fearing right and the buses go on University Drive every day and there's no issues it it is some places it is kind of wide like this side over here is really wide that's because you need to swing out a bit and make this turn if you're a truck okay oh so there are some W so how big are the lanes in this overall the travel Lanes it depends 18 foot right you got 18 foot in the main ring 18 is this Main Circle right here oh that is pretty big and then this is actually probably another six feet on there or and then there's a couple feet here and a couple feet here but the circle touches here so it does and it's all based on it's all based on buses and and truck turning okay and now what happens to the bike Lanes right so if you're on campus and you're coming South on University Drive North South University Drive towards this intersection on the U UMass has put bike Lanes there and they put a lot of this section there it also has like the buffer bike Lanes you know where it has a little segment a couple feet without and then but as it approaches the intersection that just ends so to Kim's point would there just be like signs about bikes taking the lane or yes it'll be the bike bikes take the lane or you can go up on the the chicken route okay and then and then on the south part of University Drive too right there's the art Swift extension but then there's or I mean on the east side of the road there's art Swift extension but then there's not going to be any on-road bike lanes per se there there could be in the future don't okay don't say never no of course yeah I mean so should we just uh yeah put a have a quick motion I mean um what it I propose that uh the TAC supports the development of a roundabout at um university in amdy with uh the inclusion with the proposed inclusion of um so B take their takes full l L um signs as well as uh accommodations for the dis dis disability and access committees recommendations with regards to Crossings at the roundabout yeah or I mean we could just say like with you know well yeah but I I mean I don't want to limit us right I mean I think we could also just say like sort of best practices for accessibility um including visually impaired people yeah in including consideration of moving the crosswalks back like Los realizing that there's a balance or something I think yeah whatever that recommendation the signs folks while you're crafting that can I ask something I've been listening but I start tried to stay out of it since I'm not a for formal member of the committee but this actually came up um in some other parts of town I'm just curious whether this is really addressed to Guilford but also to the to the TAC um on the west side there in front of the new development um it looked like a fairly small sidewalk there narrow sidewalk and I'm just wondering whether um Barry and Company are going to try to get something at least as wide as the8 to 10 feet that the Swift way provides as a as a as a multi-use path there on the West Side um because it it I imagine there'll be a fair amount of traffic pedestrian traffic there too um I know it may not want to be quite as wide as what's the Swift way but I'm wondering whether Tac has anything to say about the stuff that may be within the road RightWay but maybe also partly on Barry's property you know just advice to them in terms of the approvals it looked like an I I couldn't tell from the plans whether whether you were showing a a four foot sidewalk or a six foot sidewalk or an eight foot sort of thing there on the on the West Side south of The Amity Street do do you know I mean I'm happy to talk to Barry directly too I I talk to them quite often but just what do you know I mean Gilford isn't that some of that still to be determined a little bit with the taking of with the well on this on this so you're talking about this area right here I'm trying to figure what that is is that is that sidewalk that's huge this is all sidewalk a big wide Plaza is that what I'm seeing there it is okay okay well that that's interesting it sounds like Barry's thinking okay so it looks like it's about 15 feet wide it's um actually there's a number in there hold on trying to see it but it's really hard to I us 16 feet that's the dimension between the oh yeah yeah 24 feet if you go 24 feet 24 feet wow yeah 24 feet is the whole thing yeah so so I mean just my ask is is the idea to have it with you know the Planters and things there just just as long as there's a way that people feel comfortable walking bicycling whatever off the road but on that side I imagine with hundreds of people living in this place I'm guessing it's three to four people per per unit they want to have some some way of getting around on foot and on possibly on bikes without actually being on the road is is that is that what I'm seeing I'm just wondering because it seems like it's important for your committee too to to make sure the folks there are able to the committee really doesn't have any jurisdiction on the private property right I understand I understand I couldn't tell which part was Private where the where the property line ends it looks like it's the dark black line This is yeah this is the property line okay and what is the width between the bituminous concrete and that is is that is that what is that stuff there in that section is that is that grass or is it Paving this is kind of a right in here is kind of a a mystical area right now because they are talk we are talking to Bar how he wants to do all this okay okay and then it hinges on what planning says he can do now and you have like applied for a grant right for this Guilford and is that correct and then you would hear back we have we have applied for a grant we're not sure we're gonna get it or not and like they're going to make announcement in later in the fall is that right is that the time for October November um are you actually getting UMass to push for the grant UMass is pushing for it has done all the design work yeah I mean but if they want to have a decent football facility they need a decent in way in and out right I actually have a decent football team first well I mean you got you gotta build the facilities and they will come right you haven't you seen sure dreams you know no no they switch it if they what's the mission of a university but okay let's not go there team yeah forgive me they need to switch to the kind of football they play everywhere else in the world which you actually use your feet rather than your shoulder pad well that doesn't bring in the same amount of money unfortunately over here can I just come back so what I was thinking it was the DAC kind of stuff I was thinking about that that that brought my attention is that if the the favored place for actually ends up on the private property um it might be good to have conversations with Barry or whoever else is managing it just so that someone who might find themselves in a wheelchair and wants to get from North like that corner where the crosswalk is the the the Western corner there the Western crosswalk there on Amity Street down towards the post office that they have a way to do it perhaps even on Barry's property which is I think will be what happens you want to have some coordination there so I that's thank thanks for your comment Rob so Marcus had proposed a resolution which I think justes to get back on track right so he had said you know supporting the development the roundabout um you know including as we were recommending like the bikes take the full Lane sign and accessibility with the crosswalks um and I mean I was also thinking I mean I can circulate it to people the draft but also just to mention the features that guilford's talking about in these plans right because this this this level of detail was not provided to the council earlier in that memo that just had that one drawing I mean Gilford if you can share those with us and even that um consultant rendering that's that's really nice to look at too but like for example we don't we don't have to have this in the resolution but I would put it in the memo in terms of like the rfbs and the the chicken lane or whatever you want to call it and moving the bus stop to the South like like all those things seem really positive and adding that sidewalk on the North the northwest side um now is there going to be a chicken lane for the traffic if there are people bicycling on Street on University Drive like the Big Y segment of University Drive towards the intersection is there a chicken lane there too to access the AR s yeah is in the picture yeah okay because I saw the other one I didn't see that yeah it's just it's just hidden that's it I mean it's hidden because there's midan lines there but it's okay Northwest so all right so I guess let's take a vote and then we can um so go ahead Tim yeah I I second motion motion okay thanks okay and then um all right so I will vote I him I Marcus I just ey Chris I okay all right thank you yay all right so um TSO had asked us to I don't think they have a time frame when they're going to be talking about this again but um I'll write something up and I'll I can circulate it around and and thank you thank you Gilford for talking about the project and now we take this motion and can you please send us the maps too so sure be great okay um I know we're we're getting close to S it's like eight minutes to we should talk about when we're going to have our next meeting but then also I was hoping uh Chris if you have any updates about this back to school event on the 25th of August and if there's going to be safe reach to school do we think there is um in theory but I have not sort of sealed the deal with you know are we supplying a table all the all that kind of thing yeah but but yes there is um and it's um yeah it's so it's still at Kendrick Park is that right yeah where is it Kendrick Park oh cool so school is starting a little earlier this year like it's starting on Monday August 26 K to 12 or 1st to 12 and then so this event is going to actually be on a Sunday Sunday August 25th um do you know when that event is yet Chris no no okay I mean I would think that you know because the family center the Arps Family Center they also give out the backpacks and so on there and um that maybe they would know sort of the main time frame or what they're telling families um but the um but as I had mentioned to you right the the town manager had asked for the street to be closed um I think from like 3: to 8 or something so I'm assuming it's just like 2 hours of that block or hour yeah I've got to shoot an email I just haven't done it yeah no that's fine that's fine okay um all right well let's let's just get on our calendar the next um date for attack meeting and then I then I think we're probably going to end but I mean I would really like to get back to some of these other items including the transportation commission and so on um we can save that for the next meeting [Music] so um so I mean Gilford is there anything else that you know of like coming from TSO I mean I think TSO is only meeting on like the 19th and I mean I'm sorry they're meeting on the 15th and then they're going to maybe meet on the 29th they're G to talk about the TSO is going to talk about the committee that how either to rearrange the tack or not rearrange the tack so is that actually going to TSO because the last thing I had heard from the town manager is that it was never referred to TSO it's supposed to go somewhere and I imagine it would come back to TSO at some point okay all right I think you've talked about all the road projects we have right now so okay um yeah I mean do we think I mean if I guess if we have other safe roots to school updates or anything maybe we could save a date in August if we have things to cover for that or like people are available I'm not available on so today's the first I mean we could do we could tentatively meet on the 15 oh Guilford wait when did you say you're way go for are you away the eth and the 15th the 15th and the 15th and the 22nd so then 9th yeah on the 29th sure okay let's do that just keep it open just in case yeah no I I mean I think that makes sense too um I may I may be down in Atlanta again but um okay I'll let you know okay thank you um yeah and then also so one of the things I had wanted to follow up on too is so in the capital Improvement plan um I'm I'm not really sure how much you know Tac would be involved with this but um the the jcpc they had recommended the $60,000 for um speed radar signs and like around safe reachs to school and things including like one of the things right that t had asked for was to have more signage or have any have signage um designated school zones um at the middle school and the high school which we currently don't have and then also look to um potentially extend the hours that they the school's Z speed limit is in effect which is 20 miles an hour and otherwise right it's the underlying speed limits which in some of the school areas it's up to like 40 miles per hour at least um and so the way the jcpc and the way it ended up in their final capital budget was that it was going to be something that the DPW and the police would work on and like make some decisions I don't know Gilford have you heard anything about that or where I could go not much um we've talked about it a little bit and I we've basically said the council just needs to decide what they want to do so does so when the capital when the budget the capital budget sent it to DPW and the police does the council still need to weigh in on the details of it or the council has to Abode it if we make if we make changes to this if we add the school zones they need to vote that addition if they change the the timing of the lights they need to vote that as well because when we do school zones there's always the time light time the light timing is in there as well so they need to do it okay um all right see I think that well somebody I talked to wasn't sure that it had to go back to the council like whether it was just kind of on staff hands now they might I mean they might think that I don't know okay I don't know I mean because the council's not typically involved when you change like speed limits are they the council must they the public way I wasn't sure I mean I wasn't sure what any any regulatory any regulatory sign they have to vote it I got it okay all right thank you so um yeah oh no Kim I just had um our last couple minutes I just wanted to um ask about um Guilford about the Kendrick park it looks really great like there's been a lot of improvements on the road and I just I'm just curious when will that be done before the end of um oh before you m starts essentially uh it might be oh okay I just want to say also I I told Paul that I really appreciated the work being done there so thanks Gilford also thank to all of you for having me on the meeting I've got to go now but uh yeah well we're going to hop off too but thanks thanks Gilford I want to thank you particularly for the work you're welcome yeah it's really great that all that um and yeah no Kendrick Park is looking amazing I agree crosswalks going in and whatever it's really awesome so when do you anticipate that will all be finished Guilford um the contractor's not been moving with the the most Z zil they have that's why I was asking because it seems like things are going kind of I mean everything is there pretty much and then um we we still have to order lights so lighting will not be done but everything else should be done pretty much in October definitely by November right because there's also a bathroom going in there now too that's not my project oh I know there it is okay anyway cool that's great cool guys all right so good that sounds like great for the 29th thank you see you guys all right thank you thanks everybody bye bye