so thanks all right so today is the April 18th meeting of the transportation advisory committee um we'll go ahead and take oh I guess wanted I can do it okay thank you pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12 2020 order suspending certain Provisions at the open meeting law this meeting of the attack is being conducted via remote participation okay all right thank you um and we're just going to go around and take a roll call out loud so that Amber has that information when she does the minutes which she does a fabulous job on so I'm Tracy zapan I'm a member Kim tremble member Christine Lindstrom member go Fuso member thank you George uh George Ryan um Town Council liazon right um question for you if I may yes um I tried to join via the public link um but I could not get in so I did you just open that link or is it still not um the way it normally works it doesn't work until we launch the meeting George okay so it is open I should not actually be a panelist um you should put me in the audience okay I mean I'll tell you that our general um you're welcome to be either way um that generally taxs we try to allow everybody to be panelists I'm just like similar to if we were having an in-person meeting you know where we allow people to participate no I appre be an observer yeah the rules that govern Council on it's really understand really yeah okay yeah so that's fine but we I would invite you before you go into an attendee status to just um and also I'm sorry so just for Amber so Chris brup is also here and Gilford Moren is here as R leis on and um George I mean if you just want to our first time on agenda is you our Council liaison um if you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit and then we can move you thank you tery um thought i' put my picture on so you can see my my smiling face um this is my favorite committee so I'm I'm really delighted to be the leaders on um as I said our rules basically are we are supposed to be in the audience um certainly can be called on and I can raise my hand if there's something I I need to ask but I'm basically here simply to convey information um and to listen I also have a meeting uh every not every Thursday but at the same time you meet I have a meeting at 6:30 so the I can only stay for an hour um and there might be some weeks where I won't be able to be here for whatever reason but I'll always will check Che the minutes I will check the video and I'm always available for communication but my main job is just to keep the council apprised of what's happening with Tac and to provide any um answers if I can to questions related to TSO which I sit on um as well as to the council great well thank you and U I mean I do think that there are I mean there have been concerns raised at attac before that it would be good to share both the TS and the council so um I mean we can um we can talk about that too I mean I'm sure you're familiar with most of them so um but thank you for being here and for being our liaison and um I know you you had been our liaison before before I was on the committee you've done a great job and you were also a great um we had a you know you were really great at communication when Tso and we're serving as an interm TSO chair so we appreciate that all right so you can so okay all right so then um here so now we're at Tso's request for feedback on Heatherstone um so Gilford do you want to give us an overview of where it stands and the ideas I mean I've I've heard a few different things about this is um one thing I had heard from Andy Steinberg is that uh you didn't have a specific ideas about how you'd want to proceed but it was we were more just interested in getting feedback on some different concepts for redoing the street in addition to the paving um but then you've also it's also been mentioned right that this is a project that's going to happen this construction season so it seems like it may be further along than that initial interpretation of where things are but I mean this just came to Tac for the first time at our last Tac meeting we didn't have time to discuss it because we were just discussing belter toown Road um I did tell TSO that I personally don't feel that comfortable um having like Tac issue its official recommendations until after there's the public forum for this project with people in the neighborhood the TSO meeting is held during the day at the last TSO meeting where it was discussed there were quite a few public comments I'm really across a spectrum in terms of people in favor of certain elements not in favor of elements people from other parts of Heather St being interested in their sections of Heatherstone um and so on and I mean this really as I you know as I said to the TSO chair Andy Steinberg this really is just coming to ATT for the first time and so we don't have all that history and so I personally didn't feel that comfortable issuing the recommendation I know Kim that there was a time that I think um maybe T looked at Heatherstone yeah there was there was a lot of public comment on it too at one point okay and um some somebody also had mentioned like eal had you know given them good feedback and support and things too but I wasn't on the tack then so that history I guess lies with you so feel free to like weigh in on that um but Gilford do you want to go ahead and give us an overview so do you want to go to the next item and I'll the drawing sure I mean the other thing is just um the next item was just the other future potential referrals as I said in my last conversation with Andy Steinberg from TSO he suggested to me that both the roundabout and um West Street at pot wine that it could be that it could be like quite a while before they come but as Gord what you're saying is that one's already been it's being bit out and that both projects have funding so I would expect those to come back to us sooner and um and I think it would be great for us to talk more about them I didn't I didn't really anticipate us talking about them this meeting because they haven't been discussed yet by TSO I mean the fact is we've talked about both of these projects exactly yeah yeah are you especially the pot wine one which I think was originally our like it was on our list no it was our suggestion of making or maybe it was actually guilford's suggestion to make a roundabout there which well no you you had a res complain about no crosswalk yes and that's what started the whole conversation yeah no and that was very serious like we heard from a lot of actually several people at that intersection right and I mean and that discussion's gone on for some time um we know I mean we all have had kids who've like played on the fields of pot wine and you know the bus stop and you also have um you know the housing complex nearby like a long metal Drive and I mean there's a lot going on at that intersection it makes sense to do more and um all right I'm going to share my screen okay all right thank you so this is um can you can you see the drawing yes I'll zoom in a bit and maybe I'll zoom in maybe I'll zoom in uh maybe I won't zoom in all right so this you can zoom in if you go under the three on the um three dots on the right hand corner yeah all right so um this is Heatherstone starts at pelum Road up here at the top um a proposal is is to take out the median which actually starts a little farther down and to install a sidewalk which runs from pelum road to the end of the project and there's no there's no Rhyme or Reason why it stops where it is except that was stopping at alanwood was a convenient place to stop the paving um so the sidewalk project stops at AU andwood where the paving will stop so we take out the island which starts at Alpine to put in the sidewalk and just keep it in the in the road keep it in the currently paved area so this is now a new sidewalk this is the island that goes away we um we propos putting crosswalks a crosswalk across U Heatherstone at pum Road and then crosswalks at Echo Hill Road and all the roads that cross Heatherstone um and then adding the sidewalk uh we do need to do some traffic calming in here this is a bus route so we don't like to do vertical deflections we like to do horizontal deflections um but then again we were thinking we might want to try some mini roundabouts along here so the mini roundabouts what's a vertical deflection versus a horizontal sorry speed a speed table a raise crosswalk a speed hump those are vertical they make you go up oh okay and then down it's the it's the roller coaster effect when you go up and down a roller coaster makes your stomach feel uneasy So the faster you go the more uneasy you feel horizontal is you go left and right right you go around an island you go around the roundabout you get pushed over by a diet and then you get pushed back over by another diet those are those are the two things um we don't we try not to put raise crosswalks and speed humps where buses go and main roads in and out where there's not a bypass road got it but now I mean um I mean there are some roads right that have like raised crosswalk where there are bus routes not in the town of ammer okay only at the at the only at the um Library Jones yeah actually I guess that is one but that's it I mean the rest are UMass right the rest areass and then I mean like Stefon right who had worked for UMass Transit he said that because when we talked about Henry Street for example he said that it what he didn't think that it was a big issue if you do add some speed tables and well let's stay focused on the Heatherstone yeah absolutely no but just no it was more just not about Heatherstone it was just the concept of having like if you do have speed tables or something but one of the comment I mean some of the comments at the when TSO discussed it is people said that they weren't there was somebody who was complaining about the noise involved with um if you have race crosswalks yeah ra speed humps I mean actually they all they would all be raised they'd be all speed humps there would be no raised crosswalks because there's no there's no sidewalk on the nor the west side of the road it's only on the east side right um so there'll be no raised crosswalk so so what we propos is to come in like an Alpine we can actually put in a a mini roundabout um mini roundabouts would be less than 50 foot in diameter so they're really small they're they're smaller than the roundabout at U drive if you go to urive and it's around it's on fering that one no oh oh the little one the little one it's smaller the Barry Roberts build okay we're talking smaller than that so you really don't have an island you can put something in it's going to be an island that's mountable but if you're driving a car and you want to drive across it if you don't slow down you're just going to it's it's a it's very jolting it's not going to be good for your car you're not going to like it so the goal is is make little cars go around the island big trucks will have to slow down drive over the island buses can go around the island but they have to slow down um and that's how the mini roundabouts function you know you can see these in Portland Oregon you can see these in other communities around the nation the the community of Arling no yeah Arlington Mass is putting them in and they're putting a raised island in the middle which we don't really want to do I mean an unmountable island they're they're just putting vertical curbing in so you just slam into it so we're proposing to experiment here and possibly see if we can put one two or three in here and see if it slows traffic down and if it doesn't slow traffic down we'll take it out and we'll put something else in here um but now it's just a good time to do it so do you mean you mean at each of these intersection the like little road intersections you don't multiple ones at one spot now down that so you'll be one at Alpine we're looking at one at Alpine yeah Echo Hill Road and then the last one at um alanwood okay Y and we may decide to take one or two out but that's how we're kind of no I mean I know that like I had seen earlier right that that Heatherstone is on the list for repaving this year um and that it seemed I think you started to talk about a little bit the last tack meeting that that's part of why you're also looking at like adding sidewalks and things um but how is it I mean so are is the rest of Heatherstone also going to be repaved is that at some point usual for like in the you know long future or short future or is the road conditions at this Northern section of Heatherstone that much worse that it needs to be done first by by the by the little splitter Island it's it's the worst but then it gets it's bad in other places too but there's not enough money to keep going so we just cut it here we did other roads um you know if if you talk to individual residents at amers they would just like to just if I could trace their route where wherever they go the most that's the route they want paved the most oh understandable yeah so we just I mean I guess I was just like I know um you know with um and with the bicycle pedestrian Network plan for example that it was the other end of Heatherstone like near Stony Hill that was prioritized for pedestrian improvements you know because you're coming from like Gate House Road where you have the bus and you you know the Hampshire Athletic Club and things and there's more dentity at that end of the street so I was curious about why like the sidewalks were being talked about like off of pum Road first um and I guess it's because you're doing the paving there too but it just like it seems I mean it seems you know that side bocks seem pretty expensive you know when I've seen the quotes for when you have them in other parts of town and um like for example you know the sections you're doing on North Pleasant Street right you don't you don't get to go very far and the idea too that the sidewalk is just going to be ending you know based on the funding and I don't know I mean and one of the and some of the comments too on you know at the TSO meeting were about people who actually prefer it without the sidewalk so there's a lot of traffic here there's a lot of cut through traffic of people going to the athletic center and trying to get from pelum road to Route n and I live on Heatherstone road so I know that it's just heavily trafficked and I think sidewalks would be a benefit um even if you just can start at the Northern end and then eventually when you have more money work down to the southern end but I think this is a really good idea it's a good idea to get rid of that Center Island and make the road more U passable it's really in need of um Paving it's got It's so bad that you feel like you're driving you know out in some back road in you know Africa or someplace it's just like hardly even paved it's just terrible um so I feel like this is necessary and if you're going to pave the road you might as well put the sidewalks in and I'm noticing that you're not going to have to take people's property to put the sidewalks in Guilford is that right that's because I take the island out we actually reduce how much property we have to take how much Green Space we taking and make sidewalks because it's all public way right I mean there must be a lot of public way on either side yeah if you look at the little the little knotted yellow black lines that's the public way line right so did people object to the sidewalks at the M there were some who objected yeah is it because somebody one of the people who objected actually live they said that they liveed very close to the um the splitter Islands too so it's interesting because the um uh two coordinators from Echo Hill for safe roots to school going to Fort River are thrilled at the at this idea because they want their kids ultimately they perceive pelum road to be a safer way for um the children to be independently getting themselves to school either walking or um biking but um I can definitely ask them to weigh in or contact somebody in particular with their opinions but you know it they actually brought it up to me I didn't I wasn't around for their commentary but they they see this as a um a win for being able to facilitate children's um commutes over the long term to Fort River from the Echo Hill Community okay um how wide are the streets here Guilford I can't tell from the well it depends when you're at the um when you're in the Island area it's two 12 foot two 12 foot lanes and when you when it comes back together it's about it's still about um 24 to 26 so that's pretty it's pretty wide right yeah I think that's what it is can I stop sharing do you want me to no that's fine that's fine let me stop sharing so oh I'm sorry I just saw the I just saw the writing that said 24 feet sorry one question propos one question I had had was about um you know if the project is seen as like starting at pum road is that right at that pelum road um Heatherstone intersection and I brought this up at the last meeting to our last meeting is that the road really widens a lot it's like where the road is about I mean I think in the memo it was talking about how some sections of the road are like 30 feet wide or so 28 30 feet wide but then right before that intersection with pelm Road it really flares out where it's probably like up 50 60 feet and the part of this plan was to have a crosswalk there which I think is a great idea to give people better access you know one it's near amethyst Brook but also to give people better access towards um like the pum library and things but it is such a wide Crossing there um and I think you know if you had smaller you know children or something um is there any way that that intersection can be is there any reason that it needs to flare out that much is there any way that that intersection could be made more perpendicular yeah when they actually when we actually do because of a Paving project it's not all laid out as much as we would like on other projects um so as a as we actually do this we wouldn't look to see if he can narrow it down and the other thing too is that I I mean just on my observation on the site is that if you were to narrow it down and like make it less wide that that would actually also improve the sight lines for vehicles that are exiting Heatherstone there because on if you're looking to the right um the stop line is set pretty far back because it does flare out like that and I mean there's a hill and there's vegetation and things you the sight lines to the right are very poor um and if you were to Flat you know if you were not to flare it out so much and the stop line got moved up like that would also improve the sidelines that seems like that would be good for safety oh yeah one of the issues is that as pelum road is very narrow yeah and the public way along pum road is very narrow so it is compressed there more than normal and you don't have you do have buses turning out of here so you have to kind of give them a little more room oh I mean I wasn't thinking it had to be like you know very tight I just it didn't necessarily have to be like twice as wide as no no I'm just saying that's why this understand yeah right well looks like the turning radius on the East is much bigger than the turning radius on the west is that it is and we don't know why that is but even this turning radius on the west is bigger than normal how are there sidewalks on this side of pelum road whatever the yes there are on theth side there's the sidewalk both Direction I mean yeah North South or whatever that is okay I mean the side on the other side of the road if you go to the let me get a map not on the other side of the road and the sidewalk is also very narrow and like not that's the one that has like the mailboxes and yeah it's I mean it's it's pretty bad yeah um particularly I think near um yeah there's that one like one of the subdivisions there like between that and Heatherstone yeah I mean it's not great again parents don't love it for their kids biking to school but it's just that there's way less traffic on pelum than there is on route yeah I mean it seems like the main issue with the pum Road sidewalk is one it's narrow in some sections it's also very close like in height to the street right yeah and then you also between and then you have the mailboxes that are basically in the sidewalk and then people also leave like their giant garbage cans and things and so yeah for anybody you know for children who are ever trying a bike on the sidewalk it's pretty challenging yeah and it's very bumpy as if I remember I mean lots of routs and stuff so this the sidewalk here okay yep cool yeah I mean I I think it's side a crosswalk there is like an excellent idea it would be great if it could be a little narrower oh my gosh yeah oh I see so um okay that's not very good I guess that's not a very good picture yeah because you see all the Shadows so Brook is how many blocks down like three blocks down oh I guess it's more yeah oh wow okay so I mean what one of the things in these neighborhoods um I mean there were you know some people at um the TSO meeting the public comment or she spoke in favor of the island and thing but I wonder like even if the memo you know from the town manager talked about narrowing the travel Lane some but like the travel Lanes aren't going to be like marked like it's not going to be there's not going to be like dotted lines or anything and so for the sections that aren't I mean I'm assuming just because like they we don't have dotted lines in a lot of roads like similar to Heatherstone but if you don't have that if you don't have that indication for drivers of the lane width then you even if the overall road is narrow to say you know 11 feet travel Lanes or um that I mean still drivers who were driving it could like still be using the whole sort of they still could be driving in the middle of the road and still using you know the 20 plus feet as like their roadway and I mean it seemed that in listening to the comments like people were really concerned about the speeds and that you know if you don't have it striped like this is you know this is the One Direction Lane and this is the other direction Lane not that I'm suggesting that we do that but that it just gives people that visual perception um speeds are much worse south of AU andwood would say because this part of the road has a little bit of a curve to it and also a little bit of up and down whereas the other is just like a straight shot so I don't perceive that the speeds are that high in this part of the road um so I mean not sure but um and some some residents were asking too about and I guess this would probably come up at the public form about like if a sidewalk is built like who's responsible for like the sidewalk maintenance in terms of like shoveling and the leaves and all those things right because I mean typically the those responsibilities do fall to the property owners that's what the town unless the town unless the town is willing what the put it on their like list that you will do it I mean it's still the responsibility it's still there even if we do even it's on the list we just go by on I'm saying that yeah yeah and final they're responsible if someone Falls that's it falls to the property own so so and you're saying that's the price we pay for having houses in great spots is sometimes having to shovel I have no problem with that you know there are the people who say oh but the town does this section why won't they do mine I mean even people I know live in ammer a long time they have they do not believe they should have to shovel because their neighbors on their the adjacent Street it doesn't yeah they don't think but there's everyone shoveling where they are over there everyone who has sidewalks has to shovel right I mean just to maybe like make that clear to people too because I mean it's part of question absolutely right um and um okay and so Guilford so in the original memo right it was saying that the the width of the the diameter of the roundabouts could be between like 50 to 90 feet but they're going to be smaller they're too that's too big that's the only we've been pulling together documentation we we we know people have these but it's been hard to get their documentation on how they do it okay so the only documentation we could find was the Federal Highway and um somebody else's mass doots and they don't go that small but then again Arlington is experimenting with much smaller ones and other communities been doing them for quite a while right and there are some I mean I've seen them not I can't think of any in Massachusetts but there are some places where you have sort of bike boulevards like I can think of ones that I've been on in DC and ones that I've been at in like Madison Wisconsin for example where you have a whole sequence of mini roundabouts that are slowing down the traffic like at each intersection um I don't believe that those are also bus routes so that's one difference with this but um they those do seem to work pretty well so um did you say these were removable is that what you said well I'm proposing that we make them in such a way that if they don't work out the way you want to we can take them out easily take them out and then go back the way we were I like that idea I mean because then it get helps people who might be weary of having these in their neighborhood kind of see what they're like I mean it will it will definitely decrease speed I mean there's no doubt about that right it might be inconvenient but it will be safer than just a straight shot now is the road when you repave it is it going to be the same aside from the many roundabout areas like is the road width going to remain the same as it is now or are you going to pave it more narrow it'll be a little narrower because of the sidewalk but even I guess even from a okay and is there a reason that the sidewalk was selected for the west side of the street and not the east side of the street um there's a spite strip on the west side of the street that what a what strip um there's a I learned this back when I was started out my career um and it was done a lot in South Carolina where um property was being developed and you got the most number of lots out of it if you developed it a certain way but to do that you left access to your neighbor's property and the neighbor didn't want to join your project and pay for it they just wanted you to build your road and then they could develop their property cheaper so developers would put a strip of land that's five or four feet wide adjacent to the roadway and the neighbor so that they couldn't connect to the roadway called a spite strip ah so there's a spite strip along Heatherstone in certain spots so there will never be development on that side so the sidewalk is on the side of the road that has the most development right now well also I mean I just had noticed like just in terms of like the grading like to the west of the street currently it seems like in some sections it's like sort of Hillier I didn't know if if you're going to have the sidewalk there if you'd have to do regrading or no we we actually when we get to the next phase we'll actually cut into some people's yards on the on the west on the on that West Side on the east side oh on the east side yeah on the west side we would actually have to have to fill people's yards well that's what I mean I was saying just like that I could see that there was a like it kind of dropped off a little off the road okay yeah and it's easier I mean some it'll be easier to cut into some of these um on the east side because it's not a it's not going to be a big like 3ot cut or twoot cut the most would be only a foot so the road come the sidewalk comes up 6 inches and then you can just taper in another six inches easily is the road going to be at the same level as it is now are you going to grind it down and use that as base course and then just pave it or are you going to build it up um it'll get ground down um we're trying to keep it at the same level so what you'll see is some of the material being put into the area where sidewalk is to be base for the sidewalk and then some base for the road and then you got to we have to fill in where the um island is so people's driveways will come in roughly where they are right now yes that's because when you get to the end of this project here you even start to have some drop offs and some really steep driveways and if we were to raise the road up we would make it worse for them which side are you on Chris I'm on the east side at the corner of Heatherstone and Robinwood on the which which of the corners like the more Southern one or the more northern southern Corner yeah so this project here wouldn't affect me right sure I mean there were people Chris from your end of the neighborhood who were saying well we really need to do things on this end of the neighborhood too that there's a lot of potholes and speeding and I mean as you were saying there is more traffic in that area sometimes because I mean some people will take auin wood and like go out to parness and things right so yeah the whole Road needs work I think that the place that Gilford has chosen to start as the right place because that's the worst okay yes so all right do other people have other comments I mean I was surprised at like the number of detailed comments about different aspects of the plan some like it I'm not liking it some so on so um one person I spoke with was afraid that her property was going to be taken so I think that would be you know potential concern that we would want to put to rest if if their property isn't going to be taken you know and good point yeah I mean and at the roundabouts too like Gilford as you're saying like it will be smaller but if you're having the 50 foot diameter it is still wider than the you know the 25 5 30 foot road so no it'll fit but it's still all public we nobody's property is actually going to be right there there might be one or two little pieces we need for sidewalk but other than that no and now are there going to be like so how are the I mean so in terms of like crosswalks right the crosswalks be parallel with like inside of Heatherstone the cross offs would be parallel with Heatherstone they would be along so they wouldn't you know it wouldn't be a cros Heather Stone except for Helm Road it would just be along the path on the sidewalk right um okay um does anybody have did I mean okay um so one thing I had noticed let's see I had noticed that there was Street lighting at Heatherstone and aubinwood and at Echo Hill and not at Alpine you know if it was going to be more um I don't know if that's something that the town would look at doing also the street lighting that's there is like the kind that kind of sends all the light out and up it doesn't send I mean they're very nice looking street lights but they don't send the light down which I know that you know for people who are concerned about darker Skies um and now some of the residents were asking for like to lower the speed limit in that neighborhood so go for what's the current speed limit there there is no posted speed limit okay it's a de facto speed limit of 30 so if you really really want to do the townwide de facto speed limit of lowering the deao speed limit to 25 you could and you could put the sign up that says this speed Li is 25 based on the new rules that came out and supposedly the police can enforce that but that that would be that would be the easiest way to do it unless you want to go through the process of declaring it a safety zone which I don't think you could it wouldn't qualify so it' be the doing the townwide 25 would be the only way you could make and post this as 25 right now so one thing I was thinking about just is somebody who lives on a street that has you know speed tables you know they're going up and down is that people do speed up like in between them sometimes and do you think that that could happen and I know just you know from being in town and like the roundabout at East Pleasant and triangle that I there there aren't you know the the roundabout itself is pretty safe but that the minute people exit they like to like accelerate out of the roundabout if feels it that way at least um I mean I I would worry a little bit that that could be an issue like people are going to speed up the stretcher road until they get to the next roundabout and then slow down and then speed up again but there's not that much distance between them really yeah I think there's less distance than there are well maybe not on your street on our street I think on find that people speed up in between oh they do but but it's much better than it was before there speed pumps oh yeah no definitely I'm not like doubting that at all yeah all right we would we wouldn't need traffic calming if everybody drove this ped limit I mean so you know one thing in terms of traffic calming like I you know this idea about you know not having you know speed bumps speed tables or like within on Heatherstone much itself like I I understand that especially because you know it is also bus read and things but I wonder I mean if there could be like signage maybe one at the entrance or something just to let to give people more of an indication that they are entering like a residential neighborhood that they should slow down or something like that I don't I don't know how effective those are but just to kind of send that message or something do you have any suggestions on that we can look at it I mean I would think that you know there's a lot of neighborhoods where people would love to have you know signage like that like this is a neighborhood and slow down and things like that so I think the people who need to pay attention to those signs wouldn't pay attention I agree because the people who are cutting through but maybe I mean that's what I was thinking like even if you had like a speed table or something just sort of like indicate it more or something just give people these cues so um okay don't speed tables cause problems with drainage maybe that's to go to the edge of the road but you have to make sure you don't make little Islands yeah little Lakes not Islands okay all right well thank you so um what I heard from Tso and I don't know I guess if George is still here if he's heard anything more as a TSO member and the vice chair of TSO but his hands up would you like to let him talk yes George please talk GE are you unmuted sorry many buttons many buttons maybe you're to being in the audience yeah I know make it harder I know um it was decided that a public listening session for Heatherstone would be held on May 13th which is on Monday night at 6:30 that's on Zoom all right it'll be a joint District 2 and TSO meeting and the topic will be Heatherstone Road okay and so I mean so will there also be like other items on the District Two meeting agenda no I think this this my understanding is it's just about Heatherstone Road and that uh that's it so um who will be presenting the project like Guilford will you be there at that meeting or yes invited you okay is that going to be on Zoom it is supposed to be on Zoom yes and then um I'm sorry George could you repeat what time that meeting will be please 6:30 okay thank you thank you that's very helpful okay and I have to leave but thank you and to see you all again thanks night all right take care bye okay so I guess uh we got we're ready to move on other items all right so um Chris Lindstrom do you want to give us any updates on uh walk Bike World to school week since we're just uh two weeks out from it right two weeks from yesterday how it looking have a beautiful day again that's the key right yeah I you know talked that over with um the powers that be Western n so we're gonna have yeah um so we do have um just at the elementary schools um we've got sort of a similar lineup as we had last year um and we have let's see two rally points headed to Wildwood one from Pine and East Pleasant and that's going to have a police escort and one from um Primos the parking lot behind Primos Pizza on triangle um that one's going to be joined by the environmental Club from the high school so that's that's very nice and um I think that the that Auggie might be coming the Comfort dog it's a little unclear who invited the um Crocker or Wildwood uh Fort River has um currently three rally points um one from the kushman area with a police escort shutesbury and flat Hills I think is the intersection there um the other one is the kianus field from Stanley Street and the third one is I think off of Heatherstone okay Hill group nice um and that's going to be a prettyy big group The Echo Hill group um so is the Echo Hill group you think they're going to go on on pelum road or they going to go go on Ro all right and then um uh for Crocker there there are several rallying points the um where they were trying to find coordinators I know the or like you know the chaperon I know for sure um South ammer Common um the roundabout on Mount Holio which is right next to Crocker but they're all going to kind of walk together symbolically and then um in Orchard Valley I can't remember there's going to be a group coming from Orchard Valley um one of those cross streets in there and they'll be going through the real roundabout like bigger one right yeah there's a there's try I think they're trying to find somebody to do like Columbia Road and all those apartment complexes off of Columbia Road feeding mean like East Pleasant Street is that what you're talking about I mean um East Hadley Road sorry East Hadley Road isn't that yes yeah East Hadley in Columbia Road and to then come down West Street um but I don't I I don't know where where that stands so like for the um middle school or for the um elementary schools were good and the principes all know what they're doing uh we had have um lighter sign up right now than we did at this time in the fall um I think part of that is just that honestly Debbie is so overwhelmed that pushing the information out from the superintendent's office out to um like she missed it a couple weeks just didn't you know there's just too much for WB West Morland to be handling right now with you know between the the principal search for the middle school and the superintendent search and the listening sessions and the the thing and the thing so um you know hopefully we um you know address that by just taking the information and getting straight to the principles and their administrators to do their pushouts so we'll see but um so far so good right and so so are them are the each of the schools going to have an event like at them when you arrive when arrive at school yeah the elementary schools are for sure I think um the Middle School um I mean Talib who is of course leaving the Middle School principal ship but he actually really enjoyed just sort of standing there and giving out the safe root swag to the middle school kids and the middle school kids are just a little they don't they don't want the reception in the same way that the elementary school kids it's not cool people being excited that they've arrived midle school kids are almost like yeah I came because it's safe rots but my bike's over there and don't pay attention to me um so he just was standing there and giving out bookmarks and stickers Etc and I and he's pretty psyched to do that again so you have all that swag again for this time yeah so the swag um luckily uh we have our western Mass safe coordinator is like on top of the swag we had problems with the swag being delivered um but then like no one knew where the heck it went oh no I was a little worried about that when she was asking for the like addresses and yeah so I have it you know from the Middle School like I know where the swag is nice nice so um you know so the middle school I think is just going to be super lowkey and um you know it is what it is and um I think we're looking pretty good that sounds great I mean I we have that since the Fort River crew is leaving from right in front of your driveway maybe you can you can join them well I was gonna say where did Guilford sign up huh oh yeah gilford's still planning to go skiing I believe so um yeah I mean we do have somebody I Katie leowski who is um like interim school committee I think she said that she has been reaching out to folks to invite them um I haven't really been pushing it to try to incorporate the um the town counselors but um I might actually spend the next week just sending a few emails and I know that like the council president she had offered to come last time and um yeah and you know what it's perfect she's up in the kushman area right yeah she lives on for that whole crew coming Northeast Street and the town manager you know lives interested and then um yeah I I don't [Music] um I think that maybe Paul bachan signed up at one point um I can shoot him an email maybe he'll just want to step out on the northeast Street and join the kids as they come down yeah he's right that's where he is yeah and I think if we do a press release you know that um again like I do think we could get some press for it like the more work we do from the media like if we want to I thought our press release last time was good we could just uh excite me like quotes from Guilford or something I feel like I am being um I'm not putting as much energy into the production value you know in terms of like local leaders you know let's think about the media and the quotes and I guess I you know honestly like for me the number one thing is creating the atmosphere so that Guilford can get a grant for those two intersections to be redone in front of the I hear you I have to say that um I'm just feeling a little lazy or you know just in terms of my time I'm not metting it out towards those other things so Tracy maybe I'll just talk to you afterwards and yeah I mean I wouldn't I mean I don't unfortunately right I can't be there this time again because it's it's scheduled the same day as the mass do conferences like over and over but um I mean I thought you know the Press I think we I think we could recycle it and maybe we get some hits I don't I agree like I think it it makes sense to focus on the kids and but the Press itself like also helps build momentum you know like it helps get people excited oh yeah yeah yeah it can generate the money it can help generate the money kind of long term too right so yeah that's a good idea um yeah I'll think about that a little bit but generally speaking the principles at the elementary schools are like well really everybody even the chaperon at the rallying points everybody knows what they're doing this time and so I just think that overall the the production and the experience at the schools are going to be much better by the time the kids I think that that's really exciting I mean we're building like our tradition so I mean it sounds like you may already have some of this but as you're saying it can perpetuate itself right you've got these team leaders and things can build and pgos can just kind of use those resources that are develops but I mean I guess you know post after the event if you haven't before and maybe you have these things but maybe if we you know just build you know guides like how-to guides or whatever some kind of points for like so the next team can take it over and not like yeah know I already have a couple people that I've sort of softly asked if they'd be willing to take over because I know we're applying for the grant in the fall right but no I mean it's it's awesome and I did just convince my daughter to um join the environmental Club at the middle school who of course is a very cool all kids yeah that that's an in and there are things that we can do over time to further engage the high school maybe maybe we can um Christine maybe you could give me the Middle School like email and I can give it to the high schoolers because that's a big attraction for middle schoolers to the environmental Club two the two environmental clubs to kind of hook up for this send it to Addie send it to Addie she sent you an email this morning nice okay good I can't hear you sorry I responded to her um did you send her your daughters because because they'll Addie will like incorporate the middle you know it it it's a big draw for Middle schoolers to hang out with high schoolers and these are a good group of high schoolers who will help facilitate all this interaction yeah okay can do great okay that's awesome thank you Chris that's exciting um so related to that uh well one Gilford I had a question just about what's happening with Fort River and I saw that there's new like traffic lights up for when school comes back in session like how did it work the first week of the reconfiguration or were there issues that led to those lights being in or well the the lights just took a little while to get in um and then it was decided they would be on flash until next week or the week after so we have a timing sequence put in and we're working on control getting the two to talk together which we are working on right now so at the moment the next week Monday may not work as well it may still be on flash but the goal is is to make basically that this big Main Street the Main Street intersection the school exit the same intersection for roughly an hour well two hours every day 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon so is it also going to connect with like the you know the Southeast Street like the um other side like College Street and Southeast Street or is it college and Southeast are already connected with main okay got it nice I mean there's physical changes and the timing and this phasing at Maine and okay Northeast and Southeast right I didn't yeah I didn't know those were always in the plan but I saw that they were there so that should help how was it how did it go last week I guess the first week of it was it okay with the traffic it was all right it was all right they had two cops they had two police officers there most of the time during and um they did have to physically um help people yeah yeah I'm sure um I me it's a big change and there's a lot of traffic and there are a lot of changes on those roads so right so govern do you have an idea of when that um traffic study that was going to be done with those intersections is going to it's going to come back to the town or be released um uh I got I got an update today but I haven't really read it um we're getting close okay wait this is the engineers report yeah and they're looking at the are they looking at both intersections the Main Street on the they're looking at the corridor they're looking at the section and I noticed that um I was actually looking at the reports from for from wayfinders for the affordable housing projects and they had done like traffic studies as well like with data based on like 2021 and 2022 I don't know so but they had looked at you know generation of trips but also what the current conditions were in that area right um cool and also I'll just mention um so Chris Lindstrom um and Jeremy Anderson and myself a little bit I'm like a subsidary member but we're just accepted into America walks like walking college program um and it's like a program that helps with like promoting advocacy it has a big educational component first there's like part one about you know just helping Community me you know members from you know around the country um like building up their knowledge of this like what are good practices and so on and then there's a second part about advocating for like local plans and helping Advance those and in the application it was submitted as like focusing on improving the safe roots to school around the Fort River School so and that starts very soon right Chris like yeah sched figured out right now amongst all the you know attendees so sort of one of the you know there's like a final project with it to develop a plan so I mean I think that that's pretty exciting so hopefully that will help us move forward with that and then also leverage that into applying for the town applying for safe reach to school money Capital money to uh work on the intersection cool and then um I'll just mention just because it's related you know in terms of other updates on the jcpc recommendations on the capital requests I don't know I haven't been able to go to the jcpc meetings and typically they're also on Thursday afternoons too I'm like right before Tac but um they did say so Jeremy Anderson who we had talked with on Henry Street like he did submit a resident request to jcpc to have um speed you know dynamic speed feedback signs at all the elementary schools for example and we' also talked to him about and he had included in his request about having better safer um school zone signage at the middle school and high school and um overall I mean based on the draft report I again I didn't watch the last jcpc meeting but the draft report said that the jcpc was supportive of those requests overall and that um and the idea of having these Dynamics be feedback signs and they encouraged um when I can even like pull up and share the screen but it did say that they so they are allocating money to purchase and install these signs and that they pending discussion with police and DPW about where they should be located and times whether some of the light should be movable and I mean they were focused particularly in the schools there was also a request from Janet mcgallen to have a dynamic speed feedback sign near her house um and they also recommend the town staff work with Tac and the council to develop some strategies regarding traffic calming measures and prioritization of those and so on so so it's all promising I mean Gilford do you have any um like updates or sense of like where that could go or how that could progress no no one's reached out we haven't talked about it at all okay so I mean so the thing that I had like noticed I mean and and and Jeremy and I have been in touch like quite a bit right is that currently I mean I'm not sure that we need the dynamic feedback signs at each of those each of the schools but the one of the things right now right is that um the elementary schools they have those flashing signs where it says you know it has a reduced school zone speed limit and then it says that this that reduced speed limit is in effect while the there's flashing and um I know like for example like up on like Strong Street and things that they don't flash for that long a period of time and that when they're not flashing the underlying speed limits apply so in my mind like even if there were to also be you can have schools on signs that they can Flash but and they can also have the dynamic speed feedback you know these integrated signs but again um they're only in effect like when it's flashing and so in terms of like slowing the speed because some of the schools near that some of the schools are like 35 M hour 30 m hour speed limits and near Fort River I mean right if you're going up on Northeast Street and things even like faster so to me a big is a big topic is like the timing and when they when these reduced speed limits would be in effect and when they wouldn't so I don't know Tracy to be clear we're talking about Strong Street the various places feeding into Fort River Crocker well so Crocker R is both sha Street and West Street 116 because there are currently those signs like flashing at those flashing signs at both of them and then um triangle is that where would be for the high school right so the high school and the middle school right now they don't even have those flash lights at all like they don't have them at all so they have no reduced speed limit um but I had asked some questions I think I sent my comments know to the council and I sent them to you know DPW and the police as well it's just like on that section of triangle Street like the there is a section where the speed is increasing right as you're passing the high school and then as you get to the roundabout at each triangle goes down and so why couldn't you maybe you could just keep the speed limit lower the whole time um because it seems like it increases for just like a short time for example well and kids are crossing that whole oh exactly yeah right yeah so to me mean and not just RF RF thing there at prey and triangle right yeah it does make it significantly easier to cross but you know kids being kids they don't necessarily walk all the way they might be Crossing from another place along you know across and also just right you can't have an again I think it would really be worth like conversations with the police too and I hope that Tac can be included in discussions with DPW and the police you know if those discussions happen and then also also incorporating the people from the school but um to me like one priority is like having actual school zone signage with school zone speed limits at for the middle school and high school because we don't have those currently at all so there's nothing to say okay this is an area near a school and you should slow down like ever and so ever going to have enforcement like that needs to be like the first step to me at least that was just recently allowed up until the recent changes you weren't allowed to have a school zone in a middle school or High School were actually it was K to eight before I think Gilford and then it's been extended to the high school yes right but middle school has yeah so but that's like a huge thing that we could I don't know again and I don't know how much the police enforce in any of those areas so I mean it is very busy especially between the high school and middle school that one intersection I mean I guess there are stop it's a four-way stop there I think you're talking about behind the the behind the high school between the Middle School and High School whatever that street is that connects them all that's a four-way stop but that gets that can get pretty hairy you know that area and there are lots of kids like that neighborhood there are lots of people walking around there and all the buses and parent it gets pretty hairy during drop I know when Jeremy Anderson was contacting the school principls about it like to see if they would support the his request of jcpc that like some for like Derek Shay for example he asked about moving the location of the signs at um on West Street near Crocker because he said at least for one of them the one coming from where the roundabout is like you it's not visible very far in advance and that it might help to have like it relocated I don't know I don't know how hard it is to do that but that's something that you know could be looked at too so anyway okay so hopefully gilf you can keep us posted and if there's a for T that would be great too so I mean um Doug Slaughter had like said he was interested and he was going to talk to the ever Happ he has a lot of things to do he got too much going on oh I mean everybody does right I can't think of anybody in town hall who or in the district that's not supervising yeah okay so we are almost near seven um Joe hi are you still with us do you have any questions comments ra you want to contribute oh he just fell off I think he keeps falling off keeps falling off and coming back oh okay well I guess uh our meeting is basically going to be adjourned right because now we no longer have a quorum well he keeps coming back okay yeah he's right there hi Joe I think he's having some connection issues I think we had like covered basically I guess my question would just be um when would we want to have our next meeting hi sorry yeah I've heard everything but I keep cutting in and out yeah did you have anything like on your mind or that you wanted to uh what I what I want to do is actually just go physically to the locations that we were talking about earlier okay just get a sense of the traffic flow and then and also read through the public comment as well right yeah I know that the Indie had written up an article on public comment I found it actually really helpful to listen to the meetings I can send that around to the Comm if people want to listen to the comment yeah that'd be great thank you um and then so for our next meeting just like asking everybody here I'm unfortunately so we typically meet on the 1 and the thir um you know Thursdays of the month I'm not available on the 4th which is the first Thursday in May um so we could either have a meeting on the 11th or we could have it on the 18th um one idea I had is that we could sorry I'm in the wrong month okay sorry I knew that was wrong okay the May 2nd I'm not available on the 2 so we could have it on the 9th or the 16th one thing is that that Heatherstone public forum is going to be it sounds like it's going to be on the 13th so would we want to maybe meet on the 16th after that public forum and then make our final recommendations and send it to AG okay let's do that then and um and I was also in touch with the rail people with Palmer talking to them about coming sometime um if we thought we could do that along with the Heatherstone discussion which I think we probably could we could fit them in on the 16th if they're available yeah um and then also if more gets to refer to us from TSO so cool cool well thank you guys thanks Tracy hey I think let's get some more members too and happy second birthday to your daughter show his daughter just you know she keeps talking she keeps talking about patches oh yeah like I don't know like basically see a Addie babysits for um Lucy a that's nice that's great all right well thank you thank you Chris nice to see everybody G for the minutes all right take care bye