##VIDEO ID:euWEYgWUiSw## there are many streets go ahead there are many streets in ammer that that don't have proper bicycle infrastructure and um yeah I don't if I how much time do I have should I keep going I mean yeah if you just want to speak for a few minutes and then we can also have some more discussion about doing Outreach around this so uh so when since I've been back I've noticed that there's there's also a lack of knowledge about the rules of the road when it comes to local driving drivers um drivers seem mostly unaware that cyclists can use the full Lane uh and there's many different various OPP uh times when it seems appropriate as a cyclist for me to use the full L I try not to but uh for example during rush hour when there's cars coming both directions and they're not giving me proper clearance then I often take the full Lane because otherwise I don't get proper clearance but then I get honked at it yelled at and told to get on the off the street uh other times when I'm sometimes avoiding a pothole or something not or well it's not a pothole anymore at this point in the season but a bumpy section sometimes I will take the middle of the road or uh sometimes going around a dangerous curve I go in the middle of the road but it happens maybe one to three times a week that I'm yelled at or honked at by a driver and uh so I was wondering just wanted to bring these issues to the table but also know what the status of have more transparency online about what the status is regarding putting in more bicycle infrastructure and maybe if the town is willing to make a timeline about when they expect to to improve the the situation sure okay well thank you very much for your comment um you're welcome to stay in the room as a panelist we do Kim go ahead well I was just going to say thank you um Kevin for coming and um I also am an avid cyclist and I mainly ride my bike and run and walk around town and I totally agree with all of your concerns which is why I'm on this I'm a Committee Member and we would love to have more people like you on this committee that's great to hear I appreciate completely understand and we are your Advocates um thank you so oh yeah are you in this thank thank you Kim um so Kevin I do we do have a member who's going to leave really soon and I just wanted to cover a few items with him about future meetings because um our Committee Member Marcus he has another meeting at 6 but after that meeting I do have an agenda item just to talk a little bit more about these issues and what potential Outreach we might be able to do because that's been an interest of mine so so you're welcome to stay here or go back to the audience or but um you're invited to be part of that discussion when we have it after this initial item so okay um how would he um um petition to be on this committee if he was interested yeah um well he can uh I can talk to you offline about it too I mean there's a form to apply to be on the committee and so on and we do have some vacancies for trying to fill so in your community as far as I'm concerned absolutely and I will just just for the record um Amber isn't here with us who does the minutes but I do want to just um so Kevin if you can just like give your full name and what part of amers you live in sure hi my name is Kevin Morgan wellchild and I'm leaving in South hamers okay thank you and then and then we're also joined today Amber by all of our committee members except for Stefan who said he couldn't be here so Joe me Chris Kim and Marcus and of course cord so okay thank you um okay so I did want to put just about like future meeting availability um I attended a TSO meeting this morning and they are interested in having a combined meeting with Tso and with Tac and with the disability access commission um I think they're Commission Now and and it was really I mean it's a lot of different people and people have busy schedules and it's hard to find a time that will work for everybody it seemed like one of the compromises that was talked about a TSO that we'll probably try to do is to have they would like to have the meeting in person because then people can look at the DPW maps and plans and so on at a large scale which is something you don't capture on Zoom um but we also realize that not everybody either from our committee or some of the other committees can always attend in person very easily and so I think they are going to offer a hybrid option of course and we'll do the best we can with like trying to make it a good option but of course it's not quite as good as being in the room as somebody who sat in on many meetings as a remote participant when most people are meeting in person but um so just in general I just wanted to get the committee's feedback about and I also was interested I was interested in having so they'd like to have this joint combined meeting on issue of um on the Southeast Street roundabouts and they'd like to have a meeting in November on that I was also interested I reached out to the TSO chair about potentially having a meeting about um to speed limit enforcement and safety um with the where we invite the police chief to come and speak you know particularly like at the last meeting Guilford was talking about you know how things have changed now that we've adopted that chapter 90 section 17 C that makes the default speed Li at 25 mil an hour and how how people can be ticketed under that and so on but I thought it would be really good to hear from the police but I did reach out to TSO just recognizing that the police chief's time is valuable and it seemed like that might be something that would be of interest to other committees as well including TSO so that's not a priority for the combined meeting but if you if Tac agreed that that could be something we could Lobby for for a second combined meeting um so I guess my first question just to the members here is that's a great idea Tracy do you like the idea of having a combined meeting on Southeast Street yeah it's a general show of hands but what do you mean I don't understand so there's a proposal that went to the council about the roundabouts okay on Southeast Street traffic pattern in front of the Fort River can't right right in front of the Fort River School which included the proposal and I can s around link some more background on it but the proposal included a roundabout at Main Street am pelum Road Southeast Street and then another roundabout at the belter toown road College Street intersection with Southeast Street and then also two little or roundabouts at the exits and entrance to Fort River and there was a consultant who was hired who work with DPW and they did an analysis of how that could potentially improve traffic flow and we talked about a little a little bit at our last meeting um in terms of like what concerns we might have and um there have been members of the council and TSO whove raised concerns as well as members of the disability access advisory committee and it seemed that it would be good May to have a conversation with the like the three committees in the room together and Tracy will the public also be invited um I believe the public will invited for public comment um and this wasn't talked about this morning but I would hope that maybe you could have there could be public comment that meeting but I would hope that maybe perhaps there could also be like a separate time when there could be like a more involved like public forum including you know involving people from the Fort River Community and so on so that wasn't brought up this morning so I'm just kind of speaking off the top of my head but it seems like I wouldn't want this meeting that's like kind of focused on just like going looking at the engineering and things to also have unless we wanted the meeting to be super long like to have to to make it a public form as well so so do you just want us to go around yeah so I guess I mean so the question was first like it sounds like everybody supports it um I told t as though I would get back to them just with like General availability so right so one issue is that TSO they meet during the day and then disability access they meet during the day too so I know a lot of us work um so when did we think would be like the easiest like if we were to meet you know lateer in the day like does it have to be in the evening or could it be like 4 pm or 5:00 P PM just kind of General it depends the day for me it depends on the day I'm not sure I I can give up my work time for this I'm sorry so um and do you does anybody feel like going to a um in-person meeting would be a challenge no it's fine okay so if like for example my only really hard no is between 9 and noon on Thursday and no yeah I I would I would I would I would prefer it try to be like a late afternoon meeting I guess and I was thinking that perhaps late afternoon might be better for members of the disability access advisory committee like for example if people are relying on public transit or things like that so yeah I mean I'm happy to move around work and other responsibilities right okay something like this as well and the more advanced notice right it is for us and I think it's good I think there would be a lot of advanced notice um it's good that we all have flexibility and sounds like most of us would be able to attend in person yeah I mean again with same with everybody it just depends on the day and all of course hi Joe do you have a comment hey just mostly flexible yeah just not great generally and you with the um meeting with the police I've just seen a lot of speeding around town lately incre speeding is ridiculous so especially on my I mean they a lot of Joy speeding too which i' never seen before but there are people ignoring the speed bumps so yeah I would appreciate the police getting in on it well there I know in in like the Springfield area like and in other parts of Hampton County there's actually been like like street racing you know where there been a few like fatalities related to that so yeah other positive though I love the parking spots over there those are great Kendrick Kendrick Park I mean I think it sounds like we would be happy if you Lobby on our behalf to try to get another meeting around safety in particular I don't know if it makes sense for us to try to get a town counselor no and it could also I mean that other meeting could also be like on Zoom right if we don't have plans like people can participate but it sounds like most of us are available in person if we do something late afternoon I would prefer it to be on Thursdays if we can because that's when we meet um but like are there any i' be thinking I would want a status report because there have been a fair amount of changes in speeding and right and in that's why I wanted the othere like lower limits Etc there's the um we've got the school safety zone that just went in up or whatever the up in kushman we've got the Town Council moving to do the sa zones for arms and arhs so it would be good to Sure know like do a review of the major changes over like the past 20 18 months absolutely I mean that was another reason I was asking for it too I agree um okay so just in terms of I will report back to the TSO chair Annie Steinberg about our general availability um are there any days I mean I guess I could go through each day of the week but in addition to Thursdays which is my preference just because that's when we do it are there I would think Monday's out because that's when the council meetings are um I mean Tuesday when like are Tuesdays or Wednesdays are those options for people too Tuesdays or Wednesday I mean it really depends on the time and the day and what I understand absolutely so yeah I can't commit one way or another just yet until no absolutely we get some options cuz sure I think they will send around like a little like survey about availability I just wanted to you know just do like a general check-in and yeah unfortunately between like kids activities and work I'm like Here There and Everywhere so I I could see yeah no thank you Marcus um so actually Marcus before you leave for the other meeting um so do you so I guess one general question I had right Marcus I don't know if the charter review commission has decided to set 6: pm on Thursdays as their regular meeting day it sounds like that it sounds like that yeah that sounds like it's what's happening um and it's every other Thursday it's it's been I don't think it's been set yet has it been set yet pretty much pretty much been set oh okay yeah um so we can try to meet on the Thursdays that the charter RW commission isn't meeting so that you are able to attend both that would be awesome I was one concerned about the TSO though isn't that meet the TSO meets in the morning oh okay well then oh it used to yeah never mind then we're fine right yeah yeah um TSO meets in the morning but this Outreach would be like in later okay yeah that's perfect um all right because I mean I think the other option would be that if you wanted to have meetings back to like we could try to move our meetings up but it seems like 5:30 works pretty well for like the members who have jobs and everything so yeah okay we'll just we'll just to have it yeah so Athena O'Keefe she told me that um the charter review commission actually hadn't set the schedule for all of its future meetings if you could just let us know once they've done I will do it as soon as it's done yeah sounds good and then we'll just try to work opposite that you know but like for example like next week is Halloween and things like that so we have Thursdays that aren't good yeah I'm actually in New Jersey next week for work so there you go yeah all right okay thanks okay so um our next item and I wanted to follow up on the some of the things that um Kevin had raised in his email um Kevin I don't see that you did email me back um about sending out your message but now that I know I can I I will after this meeting um so one of the things that uh came up is just for example that people aren't aware the drivers aren't aware that one you know the whole approach to share the road and also this 4f foot passing law which um was adopted it went into effect in early 2023 and um I would like to see the town do more Outreach over those things um and but I was wondering too you know if there was anything that we thought we would want to do as a committee I know like for example right I occasionally ride around with my bicycle with the pool noodle like off the rack to just show what four feet sort of looks like it's usually it's actually my pool noodle is shorter it's usually like couple feet but even so some people have told me I shouldn't do that because it's not safe and that I could get hit and I was like well part of the ideas right you're supposed to give me the space so um I mean absolutely 100% like cyclists have the road the right to take the lane I don't think cyclist should be on the side of the road you know stuck in a very narrow shoulder or bike lane if there's not enough space if it's not safe if it's not cleared um and there are some places including at UMass like where I have seen cars trying to like squeeze by you if you're like over to the shoulder so it'd be safer for me when I'm biking around UMass to actually take the lane too and have make them go around um yes Chris um well the plan on paper for the parents involved in safe routs to school you know through the school district is to do a bike safety rodeo in the spring that's just for the district but that could be some that could provide an opportunity to educate the parents and families affiliated with um you know the public school system yeah idea about you know and then um I'm even thinking um I know that there's like a there's a carfree campus day that is targeting that targets high school students um and that could be another opportunity specifically at the high school to be educating the new drivers at the high school about you know the width and kind of other aspects of that law but I have not succeeded in finding anybody to implement a car safe um campus um I am trying to meet with the environmental club uh the new environmental Club adviser and again another meet meeting with talab but um those are a couple of ideas to Target motorists affiliated with the district can't hear you hi Kim you can go um yeah I think I am I'm fairly certain and if not this would be a great opportunity you know the local um driver's ed places I'm I'm fairly certain they reiterate the fact and they they participate in the four feet around they I think they go over that in driver's ed I'm going to ask my kid but um and I because because mainly those students are the students are really good as are the buses is this your experience Kevin buses are really great they always give me space it's really other driver like older I mean it could be mainly it's I mean the other day I saw New Jersey plates it could be out of state students yeah um it could be um but um yeah if if I have a moment to speak or we let Joe speak first uh as well I can I like to say something but I'll let Joe Joe speak at first or you you finish your uh just briefly I just I would recommend um UMass and amoris I think part of their orientation for new students uh they they should include it uh because they're all using apps now so they would do it I'm pretty certain they would do it if you want I could ask somebody I was on the Safety Committee that put the app in uh but they would include it as part of their orientation I'm I'm pretty certain it's a great idea yeah I was walking at UMass the other day and that parking lot I just looked at it it's was just like car after car after car and I'm like not any of you really need this car so it's like a walkable town so so so Joe can you tell me what app you mean like what um yes give me a moment it's a it's just a uh an application well ammer college is putting it in and I believe UMass has one of their own most colleges now have an app that students download U and yeah they use that for their orientation so oh like orientation apps okay I just wasn't sure what you were meant okay yes yeah sorry about that no yeah it should be a part of there because they do all kinds of safety so issues I mean I will say back probably about like over 10 years ago but I did have a meeting with my boss you know we were trying to collaborate with the UMass um people about what they learn what students learning orientation and it's one of those things where there's and we were concerned at that time about like particularly UMass hadn't made those very um like oriented people towards those limited crosswalks I mean I don't know people who've lived in Amish for a while like it used to sort of be a free-for-all across North Pleasant like students would just cross wherever and there was some of that too on massav and um and there was also issues with both distracted drivers through campus but also distracted pedestrians where people wouldn't even like look up as they crossing the street and um and we were encouraging we were trying to include some information related to that and better safety um as part of the orientation and the the feedback that we got is that were just so many items so many topics that are covered at orientation that it would just sort of get lost and um so we never actually got much further like I mean we even had ideas about just even um marking the sidewalk and the crosswalks the curb Cuts right before your Crossing like look up and things you know which is something that people other places have done just if you like I'm happy to just draw up a short propos for Tech and then you know do something yeah no that would be get them for the next meeting if you like well especially since you know I mean they really took um pedestrian safety and and driving through campus very seriously after a student passed away locally right right here and another student got really injured all within a very short span of time so um you know they they can take these things seriously I mean they put in all those wonderful cross crosswalks on massav and the bumps and whatever after Commonwealth I mean it's actually it was actually part of um the Commonwealth AB the ones that go in front of the Mullen Center they were actually included as examples in a recent Mast doot study to show like what an impact they have on reducing they did they have a massive impact yeah well they're very big so yeah I know people slow down um the Oh Marcus just left so um other thoughts yeah so I mean would would we be interested in organizing as a committee like would we be organ interested in organizing a ride or a day or some additional Outreach event I mean I remember when I was a college student we I we would do these organized rides um I don't know if that's really realistic for everybody to just still do that but Tracy I think Kevin's been waiting a while for two there was a there was an organization that that was doing them in different cities I remember back in the uh for was called uh I think it's kind of died down a little bit anyhow what I was gonna say was um I think Outreach is great but I was also wondering terms of uh if the town is also considering putting up uh more signs or just I saw Northampton a sign that that I liked that said cyclist can use full Lane um I still got honked on that road but but at least I liked the fact that it said it it made me you know it was a good reminder uh to drivers I mean I think there's it's hard I it's hard to communicate things to people on a mass level but I think it's it's a good effort uh to try to do it but uh you know if there's a sign that other cyclist have the right to use the full Lane more signs like that and then more maybe speed bumps in dangerous areas like the one on Southeast Street around that dangerous curve if there's a sign there at least that's saying cyclist can use a sure um can use full Lane there or four I mean the four feet rule is great but I think something just saying cyclist can useful full Lane would be really nice in places like that well I've been glad to see that they're they do have those signs now I think at all the Amor roundabouts because I have heard about C kind of getting pushed at the roundabouts so it's good to say now Guilford um so Gilford would you like to speak so you guys are acting like you had no interruption in this meeting did you because I lost power um and I was afraid I lost the meeting but it seems like you guys just we didn't lose power good all right I'm good so gilfred I do have a question now that you have your hand raised um and you can show your face if you'd like but the um I mean what do you think can you tell us a little bit about I know the town had ordered like the sherff they had ordered the four foot road sign like the four foot buffer signs and then I know you have a number of share the road signs and like have all the ones that DPW has gone up um are there any more that you would put up yeah so all all the 4 foot all the 4 foot passing ones are up okay um we didn't get um we didn't get any more signs than that except for we we purchased the the 25 or 25 unless otherwise posted which are going up soon or they should be going up um just so you know it's not even November 1st and the budget for signs speed humps pothole patching is actually in the hole by $4,000 so if you really want to do something like this you need to put more money in you need to advocate for more money in the budget I mean so I was wondering too just you know does the town ever do Outreach you know around I mean around like the 4 foot law I was even thinking now that we have like the new um back in parking at Kendrick Park and as I mentioned at the last meeting right there had been a letter to the editor in The Gazette that said somebody was like super concerned about roundabouts and I mean does a DPW or I mean maybe some you know TSO or somebody like do some Outreach around like hey everybody we still have back in parking but this is some video on how to do it or for I mean for example I really I feel like there could be some education too around the roundabouts because I've noticed lately that um and maybe it's the worst around the triangle roundabout but that there's almost no yielding of some of the vehicles like you know people are supposed to share the road just like they do at like a four-way intersection where everybody takes turns a little bit and there's cars that just zoom right through and I noticed at the triangle roundabout that on the um on the little medians there that there's now these the placards about you know it's the law to stop for in the C like for pedestrians in the crosswalk um it made me wonder One if there had been any incidences there no to yield to yield to pedestrians crossing right um but I mean has that been an issue there that those went out recently or do you know we try to replace them and move them around town they y okay um the the the Outreach there is no one in the public work department that has time or a job job description to say Outreach we do have a person who was hired her name is Sam gfin Samantha G and she's been putting stuff together and she's supposed to be working on doing Outreach she's going to be doing Outreach on the townwide if it's not posted 25 miles per hour um she does a lot because she doesn't because we don't sit where she sits other people sit where she sits she does more for people next closer to her but if the committee was to reach out to her and start talking more about doing some Outreach she probably be aable doing it sure that's a good idea I mean so we could strategize about that and so she was replacing Briana is that right she Communications person okay yes I'm gonna leave my video off because um I'm losing you guys when I turn my video on I mean I guess gilfred if you're afraid if you might get lost again like you could make me a co-host or something but we didn't have any Interruption no that's fine I just couldn't couldn't no I'm just saying if you're concerns so no I think I'm good now remind me is it the police that do that do the education um signs at the roundabouts you know the electronic ones that say I don't know take your drugs to Wildwood this weekend or to throw them out you know that is it the a APD that does that or is that DPW no no the little signs that you see around town those belong to the the Police Department if you see a bigger sign that you see on Interstate those belong to Public Works and we use only use those for construction I meant the variable yeah the variable message signs right but they do occasionally they have been campaigns before you know I know I remember ones about like stopping for pedestrians and crosswalks and so it was like you know go slow stop for pedestrians and the street scan the street for wheels and feed exactly like something like that ask um I know may is bike safety month but maybe we could ask for it you know we should ask for it I think especially as it's getting darker too like it would be good a reminder to just you know be aware um at crosswalks it's own one pedestrians are less inv visible bicy are less visible um and you know just to be scanning scanning um I know that last night I was like I had been at this Mast do conference that my work was helping with and I had to leave downtown Boston in my car like after dark and it was on a road that's got like a lot of it's got like bike Lanes it's got a lot going on and there's like heavy heavy vehic car congestion and like these bicyclist oh there's also a lot of people on um like one wheel scooters you know whatever those things are called a a lot of people without helmets and shared bikes and it was as a driver it was completely nerve-wracking because there's like all the traffic is backed up but then you just have these bicyclists and everybody like scooting through through too and all these different modes and it was chaos so that is our intersections get it is not like downtown Boston I think it's by Design in downtown Boston they rely on chaos to keep the drivers slow going slow yeah it's just it was I mean it was crazy but if I were a cyclist I don't know if I would want to be like in the middle of all that either so they purposely don't label and do a set of things because they just don't want motorists being emboldened in any way so there you go it's an interesting Theory so anyway so Kevin well thank you for joining us um we were going to talk about a few other items you know related to safety and things too I will um share with you the information if you are interested in applying to be a member of the committee um and there is a plan you know we do have a bicycle and pedestrian plan um you know there it does have it does identify certain areas for priority improvements but unfortunately as Guilford said and as I mentioned in my email to you too that like we don't always have a lot of budget um to make some larger improvements so yeah I guess what as just a resident I I guess what I was hoping for was kind of like a I seen the plan but kind of like a timeline and when that seemed like what was missing to me you know when when some of those objectives you hope the town hopes to fulfill them I think yeah what what were you you were not in your head shaking your head about it's a long Horizon sometimes unfortunately um it's all about money Kevin as yeah yeah I mean so any of the larger improvements they they pretty much rely on grants right because our Municipal budget for Rosen sidewalks is not that big I like the idea figure out a campaign for more signs so who manages the budget campaign for more signs that um you know that there'd be a way that you know it's kind of out I mean lobbying the Town Council too fine but I could imagine that you know we could hit 10 or 15,000 amongst people who care about this stuff to try to do some of the more heavily trafficked bike routes with Shing and I mean occasionally too there are um State Grant programs right so Mast do had a grant program to give out those or they were giving away those four foot passing signs for example andw applied for a bunch through like a leadership role in that I'm I have a ton of experience um not a lot on my a lot on my plate otherwise but I would be happy to chat with you about yeah you know who to meet with and like how to get something like that up and off the ground we have a huge network of families that are wired around biking and cycling for or cycling and walking for the schools sort of a number like a place to start for I guess I I'd also like to know just how does the funding like how does the funding get allocated who who decides how much funding there is and then if we need to apply for Grants and we just go that route that's fine but if there's a question of yeah understanding how the money gets allocated that would also answer some question it's a combination right so there's a committee The Joint Capital planning committee that they look at requests Beyond like regular kind of Maintenance requests um and they start meeting early in the year and then they they make a recommendations you know about what um what bigger improvements will be um funded or not and then there's also the regular budget it has to stay within a certain percent increase per year and it all kind of comes together it's like a budget process that goes on for like a number of months so if Kevin wanted to start that conversation would he meet with Kathy who would be the best person for him to if he wanted to meet with somebody on the capital um The Joint Capital C committee so they're not going to be meeting again I think until like January or something because they're look no but just to have the interest had it right be Kathy and and I think Kathy Kathy is the chair of the Kathy sh Shane is the chair of the um joint Capital Planning Commission and um and I will say too like so one thing that Tac has looked at right is we have the bicycle and pedestrian plan and we've talked for a number of years about like prioritizing what you know what improvements we want to see first um and we still do that and we can have a conversation about you know to update that list um but it really does I mean some of the projects that we've been lobbying for or supporting like it really does take years to get them built so we're actually in a good it may not seem that way to you but we're em I feel like we're in a pretty good place right now in terms of that there have been a number of bigger improvements like for example a big Improvement was approved down near pomoy Lane on pot wine like pot wine and um near Long Meadow Drive like on 116 where they're going to have like islands and slow down the traffic and things like that I think it's going to be a huge safety Improvement there because there's bus stops on both sides of the street there's currently no crosswalks all of that's getting added I mean that's a big Improvement right um they're also talking about doing a roundabout it Amity and University you know there's a number of other projects so um there's always more projects than we have resources and when they put in the new roundabouts are they talking about putting in integrated bike lines Lanes into the roundabouts as because well we want to keep the go ahead Kim bikes can take the lane in all the and that's like that usually is each of the roundabouts and by Design right we want to keep the roundabouts I think that um one lane roundabouts are much much safer than two lane roundabouts in addition two lane roundabouts you actually need to have much more takings and it just makes it bigger and cars can go faster um so as Kim said I mean ideally um cyclist should be taking the lane there but I I think a lot of our roundabouts like the one at University in fering for example for people who don't feel comfortable biking through the roundabout you can also go on the path so and that's been bu to some of the other roundabout projects too Joe I was thinking about uh lowcost signage near parking might be helpful and with businesses that might be just one way to increase the idea and then I don't know would you get any funding from um the what is it complete streets would that fall under it or I don't know anything from mot yeah mot has some project has some funds available like Guilford are there currently any ammer um save you know shared space shared streets and spaces grants or there are none right now okay and now I know too that um Mia T right they were offering rapid you know flashing beacons to um communities did yes did ammer apply for any of them no we didn't think you guys needed them you guys are rich right wait who are us guys you're as guys I don't know yeah I live Hadley oh I just work here we applied for four so nice but they they had quite a they had I think she said they had over 300 applications oh okay well you know so last time right when they did um they a few years ago they were giving away those speed limit signs for school zones and originally they were only going to pick like they were only going to like 50 or 70 of them or something but then they gave away like know over 100 or 150 because it was so popular they basically met the demand so I'm hoping if they had 300 requests that they will like try to fulfill as many of those as possible not say oop sorry we ran out so so it's baby steps Kevin that's all we can do but I mean you're welcome to join our committee at any time we can also have conversations with you offline about like working on these issues too that was good thank you thank you yeah thank you thanks Kevin have a nice evening appreciate it thanks nice to meet you have a good night okay so let's see um so next on the agenda was safe roots to school um and so I wanted to just take a moment and and Chris may have more to add to just about that um the iew walk day the international walk bike and roll to school day was quite successful this year like in the end over 150 students participated it was popular at all the elementary schools we had pelum participate as like Walkers um on Harkness road which they were a little concerned about the safety of that um and but it was great to have P participate as well and I don't know Kim did anybody from like the high school environmental Club get involved this year so I mean that's something we could aim for the one in the spring but it was great to see I think we just need to think through maybe Kim you and I should chat to like what could the high school do for the high school yeah um you know that high school kids do for the high school but yeah I was excited about that because we lost the platform of Debbie West morans Friday email but yet we still exceeded um you know we had the mo the best turnout that we've had yeah so how did that happen well so we worked really hard with the principles to do um you know a onew punch of every Friday that most principles at the elementary schools still do an email right yeah so they were sending out the link to S um to sign up and then they did a robo call um the Wednesday before and and we made sure that they sent out the link the Friday that so they would say in the robo call you know go to your email this is where the link is to sign up and we'll send it out again and so um a couple of the principles even sent out the link after the rooc call right so it was great it was just very thorough working with the um the principles but um you know I still think that there's more that we can do and there's some there was just a hype factor that I don't think was there as much because we didn't have the Debbie West Morland thing so we have to think that through a little bit but I think that I know I talked to Kathy Aldrich who's the secretary like the principal secretary at Cocker farm and um and she said that she did a lot of robocalls and you could tell you know you could tell that that had happened um and it was really nice too like um the ammer schools were like one of the few districts in Hampshire County to even participate at all so like in western Mass outside of Springfield Springfield area I think there was like one school out in the birkar there was one up in the hilltowns in Hampton Hampshire County there was Greenfield schools participated I think oh there was an East Hampton school but I mean that was it you know so it's like I think that we have a good relationship with the safe reach to school program and with our coordinator Tor hway who's willing to come out here a lot and so clees that um that we um we lost our coordinator for the bike safety Rodeo so we were planning through the Family Resource Center to do the bike safety rodeo in May um and that person Dwayne got um a different job in the district so we don't have that um but we did finally get a meeting with Dr shei um and that's happening this coming Monday so that's going to be a big deal I think um and I'm just going to ask her flat out to assign somebody to make the Bike Rodeo happen we'll see if she does and if she doesn't um you know my plan will be just to go directly to um I think I'm going to ask the middle school I'm gonna ask um Ben coblin the PE teacher and I'm gonna ask the interim principal there if they will take it on for the year because it's been pretty hard to get the middle school to have a project so that's my plan B um yeah we did and we did have great pictures and so and I can um I did share them out the ammer Indie asked for them I sent them to them they did a little blurb I also sent them to the current you know I think I Shar them with Scott mback but I'm happy to send around a link to it to T members if you're interested um and then I did want to just uh this morning TSO was talking about this school zone the proposed school zones for the middle school and high school um Guilford do you want to give like a brief update on that on the what on the school zones for the middle school and high school like just like you were telling TSO right that you said J basically yep they were sent to us we're working on them we'll just work through them cool so one one one comment that came up at TSO meeting is that you know with suggested that with the high school you know it's a lot more of a safety issue just because there's so many students who cross triangle but that it wasn't necessarily as much of a safety issue around the middle school because there's a four-way stop the Middle School driveway and then a lot of cars are stopping there but I still do feel really strongly that we should still create a school zone at the middle school as well and just encourage um I mean I'm sure the people who live on Chestnut would say that cars speed on Chestnut yeah and it's also just to create the climate of saying like hey this is a school zone slow down so yeah I'm a big fan yeah so Gilford when do you think that that will come back to uh the council for consideration is there a time um I hope by the end of the year I mean it's just um we're just trying to wrap up we got several projects still kind of going right now okay Gilford you mentioned that there's not any money already and it's November what does that mean for a school zone would we be going to Safe Roots grant funding as a way to fla to fund flashing beacons for those new zones there was some money put in the capital plan by a citizen request this year I think it's a can't remember if it's 110 or 60 I think it's 60 yeah the 60 yeah so there's 60,000 which is not that much but we'll see what we get out of it okay it should be enough for like the school zone sign I mean the school zone signage a lot of times isn't it mainly the speed limit signs and then sometimes there's like an end of school zone sign do you have to do a lot of other signage uh I think the request was for flashing ones oh yeah well but the the require I thought I mean my take when I've talked to the Jon CPC people about it is that there is some flexibility about you know what makes the most sense the citizen request was actually for variable message speed signs at the elementary schools um for the school's own areas I know sometimes there are those like School limit signs which incorporate variable message signs but particularly like at the elementary schools if we already have the other flashing signs I'd love to be able to use those and not have variable message sign like not have to to basically discard those and get new signs it's I mean the way I read the jcpc budget item is there was some flexibility there is but there's they're close to $6,000 a piece right yeah um do you put you put two up at the middle school you put two up at the high school or you put four up at the high school um wait are this the the speed limit signs that just say like flashing when those aren't 6,000 each are they um the ones we've been buying are around 6,000 oh wow so they during the programed time that's $6,000 well we also have we also you can also access them remotely so like I can sit here and log on and see the signs and see what they're doing okay um I can go in and change them right now I could make it like they were flashing all the time I can make them they're not flashing um I people who do that but so I wouldn't really mess it up um um the signs are a little different than they're not just there's more to them and it's just how they're made plus they're solar powered versus being electrically wired so there's a little bit of charge for the battery and the solar panels and we tend to put them on sturdier posts than what some people put them on because we have a population that likes to challenge things that are fixed in the world um college students uh yeah Gilford what's the pro um the situation about putting a sign on triangle I saw just from transcripts afterwards that there was some question about putting as flashing school zone sign for the high school on triangle Street itself so the issue with school zones is is the school technically exposed the own property on the street you're putting aside on and the the field is not affiliated with the school it's the town high school high school actually has no FR Frontage on a public way except for matun Street and Chestnut so I had a question about that because when I read the I mean that's why I emailed the TSO but when I read the 2022 like Mass amendments to the mecd it didn't sound like there was a requirement that they be that it have to be like adjacent to the school property but is that is that in the mutcd I didn't see it anywhere it is and there's supposed to be a crosswalk in the area too no but I are you sure that okay I don't think that that's in the latest amendments well if they if Massachusetts didn't amend it saying you don't need it then the federal one says you do need it oh the federal one says you do need it for crosswalk okay so we we'll go we'll go through it and work it no no I just yeah I understand okay and I mean part sorry go ahead there's just some latitude I feel like part of the problem at the high school is the um it's not it it's the intersection is it whatever triangle street but that turn matun in Triangle yeah because because matun is could be a problem I mean it should have a better crosswalk there but it's really turning there it's that intersection is really chaos in the morning that it it really is chaos worry after school just about I'm just thinking through could we go back and get the council to and find somebody to introduce a proposal to create a safety zone on triangle Street that's separate from a school zone because it can't be a school zone there's there's nothing for a safety zone safety zones are for daycare centers or right something like that unless you want to take over one of the college houses and so hopefully you guys will find that there's you what we're saying or Tracy what you're saying is if Massachusetts didn't adopt the the more liberal standard than Guilford you're saying we're stuck with the federal standard which means that we have to have property adjacent to the street not necessarily that's we just need to go through and work it out um yeah I know I just feel like I mean the point I was just trying to make when I emailed TSO is just that that that mass do guide from 2021 like predates the 2022 Mass amendments to the mecd and the Amendments had changed some of the requirements related to the school zone so um and so some of them seem different and when I checked with safe reached to school they had never heard of their requirement that there be like a marked crosswalk in the school zone so so I was just I was just trying to understand like where that requirement was from it is listed in that 2021 guide that mass. procedures for Speed zoning guide but as I as I said right that predates the latest Amendment so okay we've we've already done it I mean there's no crosswalk no there's no crosswalk in the Fort River School Zone there's crosswalk well there's one in the Crocker in the crocker Farms they have it and wildwood has a crosswalk but Fort River doesn't right sure okay so and one of the things um that came out of of the TSO discussion this morning was the idea of both installing the new um creating new school zones for the middle school and high school but also when looking at the times of the school zones also looking at the um the times for the elementary school school zones as well so so I think I mean right Guilford you had said that you would reach out to the schools about it to um talk to a question of whether or not to extend the time that the lights are flashing in our current school zone yes yes okay I did actually have a quick conversation with Ben Harrington who's the assistant facilities guy I haven't spoken to rert yet although I did speak to him last year um rert was okay with it last year quickly and Ben seemed totally fine with the idea of extending those times this year but um I will go I can go back or or I'm assuming that that's who you are going to talk to yes we talked to we'll talk to rert and then if they want to have a bigger discussion I mean the council was talking about having him flashing when you have uh sporting events and when you have plays after school or when you have events after I mean so there there is a bit of there's a bit of um we gotta come to I do so are all the ones that we are all the ones that are currently installed at the three Elementary preschools are those all like solar powered um they are or some older okay well actually the one the one on East the ones on East Pleasant actually are the oldest and they may but I think they I think one is or one isn't maybe so they're not s powered do they need to have a connection to like the external power but I think I think they we placed them all because they've all been hit at least oh got it okay and can do you do you know off the top of your head when those are in effect like when the school zone periods are for the Elementary uh no well we adjusted them we did adjust them recently at the beginning of school year but they also adjusted I think right when this Elementary School times shifted right likeo year yeah okay all right well and then those G Guilford could we use reuse those because while Woods closing not anytime soon if you put the school zones in effect now they'll overlap so you you would need something okay got it okay thanks yeah we'll actually have four spares when they close Wildwood it'll be great I don't usually have I mean especially if we have that many roundabouts in front of the Fort River Campus maybe that there's justification to put true even more up in that area I think I've said this before I don't know if I said it to you but that was the worst place to choose to put to school yeah you gotta get over it Gilford lots of people in this community need to get but now you have that new study with the roundabouts so oh people gonna go crazy it's really what's going to all right I'll just you push my button I'll tell you the whole story all right you get you get wait starting you get 55 seconds what don't cut him off my my bet is we're gonna so we we've never been allowed to cut into the eas3 common it's sacred we're not supposed to go into the common one day we we actually put some extra Pavement in there one time when we paved the road to give the bus his a little extra room oh you would have thought we had taken a baby out there and killed it but you know that was the that was the outcry but what's going to happen is everybody's going to look at the at the roundabouts and say no oh sorry um Joe sorry cheers so um so what's gonna happen is everybody's gonna say just widen the road and put turn Lanes in and stop lights and that will be probably just as good as the roundabouts but the problem will be that you actually don't have any stacking room to turn into the school so so it's not going to be stacking room can what's stacking room mean stacking room is where cars line up to wait for those signal to turn so they can turn left oh yeah okay yeah got it I there's not gonna be enough room Joe Joe has a comment isn't a roundabout just in general flow better than a traffic light I just curious they they generally do and but then the the one thing that flows really poorly the worst thing in the world that that flows is a roundabout next to traffic signal true yeah makes that sound like a nightmare so that's kind of how we went with four roundabouts it was to and then we we've already seen when we put in the temporary traffic light at the school entrance and exit that was supposed to be a full on and that that can function as a full-on traffic light where it turns red green yellow but when we had it going red green yellow the people who are heading north on Southeast Street would see the green light behind the red light and run the red light at the school driveway uh so they can get to the green light at Main Street right and I I've had qu River parents tell me it doesn't work very well to get out of the driveway now yeah they all he I mean the lights are all flashing all the like all they do is Flash yellow is that correct or there they flash red and yellow Yes red they flash red and yellow okay okay yeah but they were supposed to work as a traffic light and they were tied in to work with the main street light but then to make the main street light and the driveway work properly you have to let the driveway exit have a green light to turn left and right but then Main Street had to have a green light on Southeast Street so that the traffic could flow out of the driveway and go into Main Street and go one of the three directions they needed to go or else they stacked up in this small little area of 100t 150 ft and that's all you can get out of the driveway would be 150 ft of cars turning right so it it didn't so but is there any concern that if there's so like all these different roundabouts in like quick succession that there'll be like backups I know that came up at our last meeting and I do see that it does slow like it is slow around triangle like at certain times a day why is it slow at triangle why is it slow because not everybody isn't taking turns you need more education that's what I think no when you go look at it more in depth when you see it's going really slow at triangle look to the right towards Kellogg and see if the line if the North Pleasant Street is backed up all the way from Kellogg traffic light all the way back to the roundabout because that every time I've been there and I made a point to keep looking is that when I see it going the slowest it's one two reasons one it's just overwhelmed because there's so many cars going in three directions that's what I've seen and two is that and two is is that people were making mostly a right to go down North Pleasant Street but Kellogg and Amon Street those lights are what stop and those are all backed up this this afternoon pedestrian hits it to cross wait where are you talking Amity how did Amity get in there too oh you're saying at the other okay so there's there's there's three there's there's a roundabout there's a light at Kellogg there's a right light at Amon Street and a light at College Street yeah right College Street doesn't back doesn't cause that much of a backup on this line but Main Street or am Street and Kellogg Street can back up the roundabout because if they're not working or a lot of people are calling for a light it it backs up all the way into the roundabout and then it'll back up down the street cuz it's all tied together and it needs it needs to work a little better have so have there been studies of the traffic flow like downtown about how to improve it or no we just just we haven't had we haven't had money to do it so we haven't done it yet that seems to be mostly like on Fridays or holiday you know holiday weekends and whatever well in in pre-co I always thought that like one of the worst stretches of street was on you know South Pleasant Street between college and Amity Main Street like it would just be like bumper to bumper you wouldn't be able to move hardly at all but I haven't seen it backed up like that as much anymore and have you noticed um like with the change on boltwood like has that changed the traffic much a little bit Joe has his hand up yeah Joe yeah and and dropping U my kid off in the morning um you know linoln AV to Amity a lot of people have been bypassing the that traffic that you're talking about Guilford and um that be that seemed pretty dangerous because there's a lot of kids walking on the street and then there's people racing down linol have with the you know terrible hot holes there so wait Joe so what um what part of it are you talking about what I'm saying is so the so when it's backed up like that by the roundabout um okay I just notice people are people are cutting across like side streets more often are they going on like fearing or mlen like that kind of cutting through yeah M linoln and then Lincoln or North Prospect Street like sometimes people cut on North Prospect Street they're always concerned about that or okay yeah and when they get to Amity that it's like kind of a dangerous left and right turn there right for like 10 different cars that are waiting yes agreed yes okay I mean amers is actually actually if you it's just look at what's going on emmer is at the point where it's got to um start adding Lanes or it just needs to be just got live with a grid lock yeah I mean we've talked we've talked to you Mass about putting another another exit from instead of going out to Governor's Drive to North Pleasant Street we've talked to them in the past about coming out and going towards 116 and putting an interchange there so people can go out and get off on 116 and go north or south um that's a lot of money but we're really and we're back to money again emmer has to realize they gotta spend some money on this stuff or else it's really not going to get better okay well thanks um so it so so just on a smaller scale so the Kendrick Park um North Pleasant it seems like it's pretty much done is that right yeah there's a couple more signs that go in more painting um but mostly it's done what about the bathroom isn't there a bathroom that's supposed to go in it's not my project so I don't know anything about it except doing [Music] it it's there it's supposed to be one of those fancy like a Portland Lou or whatever one of those ones those things are those cost as much as a house some of them wow but um so so one of the things is Kim I was curious because you had mentioned previously and I've seen it too some that people who live in the rental properties along North Pleasant that section or Pleasant Street they would drive the wrong way are you still seeing that now that the back and parking and stuff is in not as much but I um no not as much so that was that was installed the um thank you Guilford the um one-way signs at the end of the driveways coming out so you can see it on the park side from the driveways of the rentals you can see the oneway signs now I think they have it figured out and with the all the parking that's there too I haven't it has not been I haven't seen um incidents yeah and it really narrows it nicely like in terms of slowing down the traffic and things yeah really and I like how the bike lane it now has like the bike logo like on the grounds one thing I had noticed there Guilford on on the bike lane um particularly like near triangle but then also I noticed that on one of the other bike Lanes around town is that it's like full of leaves um I guess that's you know one of the features of us having lots of Street trees but does the DPW ever like clean off the leaves off the street or do they all blow away eventually or what happens I don't know down downtown we go through and we'll sweep yeah no so because I noticed like you I mean like a number of the bike um logos were painted on the bike lane you know at Kendrick Park but one of the closest ones to Triangle it's just like there's like a curb there and things and the wind is catching the leaves and like just you can't see that logo basically you need to I was just curious like so some people might not even know for sure that it's bike lane and so at that intersection two like currently there isn't a sign on the do not enter sign that says like except for bikes is that something that's G to get added bike lane that has like a bike going that way but it's covered in leaves I mean is there going to be any signage as well like a little sign a cheap sign not an expensive sign so there's nothing cheap well you know so there is supposed to be a sign there it says it's bike bike and cars out okay good that would be that would be really helpful um I was wondering about about um just generally all the parking everywhere I mean who how does that get enforced what do you mean because there there are plenty of people that park there all the time that are not um don't have parking stickers you're saying adjacent to Kendrick yeah so is that is that now being en forced Gilford do you know like there's a signs that say go oh is I don't think there's a kiosk there yet Kim is the kiosk in yet like the parking kiosk the kiosk are there parking enforcement supposed to be going through and doing it okay okay good okay thank you well the kiosk wasn't there like a few weeks ago so it just got added I guess but okay cool yeah the kiosk i t I touched it Wednesday oh all right I bought dinner there oh at the food truck but if you're buying dinner isn't it isn't it like 6 PM there's no enforcement there after 6 you must have been having early dinner right um well I was getting it to bring home yes um okay um yeah and I and so it seems like a lot of the other projects are wrapped up um they're they're wrapping up there's still a little there's still a couple Paving things to do okay um the chip ceiling is all done that's all done uh we have the water the water main project still going on we have a sewer project in South hammmer that's going on um we have the bridge Rail Project which should start crank cranking up here shortly um oh and wait and I was I was on South Pleasant Street today downtown and there was some kind of like project project is that a DPW project like some of the street was closed is that a DPW project or is that related to the new building that's ever source eversource is connecting the the new electric line they brought up from the substation they're connecting it to the downtown um Loop of electrical Transformers and vaults they have oh and um so I was going to mention just the attack members so it was like two weekend two Fridays ago was a Friday and then had the um ribbon cutting at the pomoy oh yeah Village roundabout and I saw footage of Guilford walking across the street at the crosswalk yeah yeah I was actually it wasn't planned they didn't say Guilford walk across and we like no I was talking to I was talking to the contractor who parked at Mission Cantina oh okay I was walking back across and I looked up after I waved to another I knew um and I realized that there was a camer crew staring right at me and yeah you you there was just a little glimpse of you so and he he spoke at the event too it was very nice good and there were some like you know big wigs from Boston there too like just talking about Partnerships and stuff that was nice so well they actually gave us money but I'm not allowed to talk about it okay don't talk about it just use it well so that's great too that's great to hear so um so Gilford I don't know if you were still on the TSO meeting towards the end but um one of the TSO members was asking about Heatherstone yep um and so how's Heatherstone I do not believe that the drivers I do not believe that it's something we'll use in the future um the way things are going um people it's just not being accepted that well and it's not being um it's not really working out so I guess the ammer will be the land of raised crosswalks and speed humps okay so you do so are you I mean are you attributing that to um like I don't know could you easily or Echo Hill seems like the place where you could easily pull together a neighborhood meeting and do more education and you know just try to get a little bit more Buy in or is it not really the Echo Hill population that's you know disabusing the um they're they're quite a divisive group I don't think they you have a group of young people who have moved there that want changes and sidewalks and admin and you have a group of older residents who like it the way it is and want to stay the way it's always been so so the Heatherstone they were like mini roundabouts I haven't been there lately um but they were the mini roundabouts and they were done as a pilot projects and they aren't they are they like on top of the pavement so you could like take them out right like they were they were they're temporary if we decide to take if we decide we're gonna take him out we're just G to take a milling machine and Mill them out oh okay I didn't know if were like actually like they weren't part of the pavement do you know like I thought that they might just be like bolted or something as like a test case okay oh all right but if we don't want them we can just Mill them off and then they'll be then the pavement will all be flush and then and how many are there are there two or three three oh okay I like them so do you think that they'll be up for the winter are you going to leave them or how's the how's the pilot going I think uh I think some voters are I don't know the voters are reaching out to their counselors and I don't I'm not really sure how it's going to go I guess the school buses are having a little issue going through um and that might be because we made them a little bit bigger than they were originally but people were complaining they were too small so we made them bigger um so you know the people always complain right like I guess I guess I guess the school buses are rocking a bit through there so I I don't think pbta has started going through there again oh interesting I'll have to ask them but the rest of the improvements there were done like um I mean that Island was removed right and the sidewalk was added and the sidewalks in do people are people complaining about the sidewalk some are little brother wow of crowd some some people are complaining about what about some people think we're idiots and we just don't know what we're doing um uh so personally um it's kind of neat because as I get closer to the end of my career I'm like whatever yeah yeah but maybe we should yeah nothing you know it's not everything's not for everybody yeah no it's true one there's many viewpoints in Amor and it does seem to me if the right the primary purpose is traffic calming speed calming so that is happening correct well except for the people who are driving backwards through them I'm sorry what they're going the wrong direction through them there there are residents who will Who when they get to the splitter Island they cross over into oncoming tra traffic lane and then go through the round roundabout backwards because because we didn't put splitter Islands on the other side so you can do that I can tell I need to go visit it I haven't been there in a while yeah and it's it is it is tight I mean you have to slow down and get around it yeah that's the whole purpose and before it was it was bizarre I mean people would fly buy you well I me the the potholes were doing a lot of traffic cming too so I mean there had been a study done at UMass was a student study like looking at um the roundabout at the North End of campus and just like the bicycle movements through that roundabout and the bicyclist would do some crazy stuff but it's it's like disappearing disappointing to hear the drivers are doing the same so but but and it's really great I mean Gilford as you were saying right that the pomoy village round about was the first one that you that the DPW did in house and I think it came out great and so it's encouraging you know that DPW is doing some of these great things and I I mean the um the pot wine you know project one the 116 project there I think that's going to be fantastic too and there's some Innovative stuff there as well so you guys are doing a lot of great things and I think it's worth trying the mini roundabouts right because they've been talked about for a lot of neighborhoods yeah yeah me too a pilot project good on you I mean what more can you do right yeah like come up with a solution it's also a solution that can be changed and and it is actually achieving what it's supposed to achieve well that's why I didn't know if they were just like um you know bolted like temporary because they're not bolted it's it's asphalt me to but we can just we can Mill across it and it just be pavement and we'll just just I know that it's almost seven I want to let everybody go and have dinner and enjoy their evenings so but Guilford um just one question about the roundabout at Amity and Lincoln I mean at University um have you heard any updates from the state on that or when do you expect to hear I'm not allowed to talk about it oh you're not allowed to talk about what doesn't it I mean didn't didn't the town apply for a grant and so what happened with the grant like that's all public knowledge talk about it oh okay but I think part of the problem now too is that housing development that's going to happen there well and there's some public hearings about it and stuff to okay because I think part of yeah because the access around that I think is a little confusing and and I think there's also like sidewalk issue like but I thought there were some really good additions like in the plans that you showed us not the original memo the fact that like that new housing project could have a new sidewalk and that we're going to have additional crosswalks and I mean there were a lot of elements that were added there um I I was just asking in part because I know right that the that the council never voted on that right because no because there was a grant there was a grant pending so it went out to TSO and it didn't come back in and so I was just curious about yeah TSO is to take it up soon oh okay got it all right but thank you thank you for that gilfriend thank you for hosting and for sending out the links thank you I hope Amber is back with you soon she was back today oh good good thanks thank you Joe thank you everybody all right so I'm assuming I mean hopefully our next meeting will be the joint meeting but we'll see okay thank you all right bye bye