##VIDEO ID:5widtayRJic## e call the City Council budget Workshop to order commissioner Smith will you give us the prayer and pledge please sir amen I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right Miss blanch you are up good evening mayor Commissioners okay I think I'm on tonight going another U budget Workshop to go over some of the pending items that we still have left to get some final decisions so we can determine how we want to move forward I mean over the past few months we've had probably what four or five budget workshops and we did set a a millage rate of 4.83 99 that we had to submit to the state so but by next Wednesday we got to set a tentative millage rate and a tentative budget that has to be advertised accordingly so again the purpose of this Workshop is to address those outstanding issues the items I plan to cover is the Water waste water reclaim water fees and the rate increase um the letters went out out um for the 40% increase I'm sure everybody's gotten a lot of feedback pertaining to that because it is a significant increase um so we'll discuss that as well um the general fund proposed changes as a result of some of the changes in the general fund there are changes in streets fund and then we'll look at the proposed tentative millage rate accordingly and then there were some changes that the CRA board um approved for the C fund this information has been shared with you previously as we were developing fund 401 budget um when you factor a 10% increase in the rates it gave generated a deficit sorry about that of about 5.6 and 15% um 4.3 4.4 20% about 3.2 so we at that time proposed the 40405 to you know remove that deficit and cover some of the deficit rolling into this year as well this is a just a detail of the revenues and a summary of some of the expenses associated with each one of those proposals identifying again the funding from reserves in each one of those proposed um levels of increase so as a result of some additional meetings internally and you know to try to minimize the impact on our customers um we have some information that we're sharing tonight and trying to reduce the increase to 20% is if it's acceptable so what is needed is additional Cuts in fund 401 and this list is is a proposed list of those cuts um to freeze two positions the assistant director public service and the customer service specialist position to transfer the City Engineers position to Community Development because the majority of his time I guess is basically Community Development and we did do a pension adjustment um our actuaries gave us estimates based on a 7% factor and a 6.7% Factor 6.75% Factor initially the committee was a pension board committee was reviewing that but they went back and they decided that they're not going to go from the 7% to the 6.75 in at one step they're going to do it in probably about five steps so we basically updated our numbers based on the the 7% because they're going to take a gradual approach the lower they go the more the contributions we have to make in other words but the better funded it become obviously better funded yeah is the return on investments typically what that is um so capital and other operating expenses um cutting 150 for the water plant infrastru structure assessment 47,000 for a Ford F-150 pickup truck generator 130,000 reducing the water treatment thing Reservoir pumping funding for 200,000 a for Maverick pickup 35,000 sludge hauling trailer 120,000 replacement of meter communication 183 some land purchase for the lift station 77 we're removing that we could possibly do that out of fund for 403 and 500 off the aestas water main replacement project we have about 1.4 in the current year budget that I think is probably going to end up rolling over I don't think they'll be done with that by September 30th when I looked at it a few weeks ago we'd only spent about 100,000 out of that 1.4 it may be more now but that's how it was and base stations reducing that number to 420 left 180 in there this is really on the Utility side um to replace two of the old base stations and add a new one um for 350 85,000 vancon truck 400,000 F350 utility bad truck 95,000 so if we cut these additional funds it helps us cover that 3.2 deficit I've mentioned back here and here and it allow us to go forward with a 20% increase versus a 40 40 15% increase for FY 25 can I ask you a question the water plant infrastructure assessment what is that I mean it's 15,000 my name is D Buu public service director that that money was placed in there for the assessment of all the water plant and in order to find out what are the maintenance needs that is required for example we want to look at basically the bleach um how it function for maintainance because a assessment was never done when this money was taken out it mean that internal staff will have to go there and I have to work with them in order to perform those assessment so who's performing these tests or nobody is doing that right now I had just wanted to make sure that I perform these assessments so I can have a a plan ahead to go on to see what all the maintenance need is right so I can project the cost for future year budget right so that was never done that's why the money wasn't there but I will have to then in order for me to make this budget cut here I have to make that adjustment and I will use internal staff and myself to go ahead and to make that assessment for each one of those I I think one of the things that we we're contemplating part of the reason they need that is that we've got how many six water plants yeah and do we do we combine it or get get it down to four do we leave it at six because all of the wells that we're now in the in the mid aqu aquafer now we have to go to the lower aquifer at some point we got six or eight years to do it but so the question is would we be better if we've got to replace a a well in the middle aquifer would we be better to have bigger Wells to go to the lower aquifer but with the lower aquifer becomes more treatment so it's it's a it's a complicated right it's a complicated balance there but um it can be done basically by the use of internal staff but myself and engineer so we decided to at least take this out of the budget and see what we can do with our time to make sure that we can address this internal I still don't understand and I want to say understand if you could repeat this so by removing this who is going to be responsible for the assessments of all our water plants it will be it will be the the um Nate who is the person it would be Nate um one one of the chief plant operators who will be assisting us right with the plant um maintenance person myself and a few other people that I will be using to make sure that we get this assessment done and this assessment is just in order to get what are the needs that is required for example like the mayor spoke about the wells right as one of them but there's other needs that that need to be addressed for example if if you look at there is an existing pump the pump may be 20 year old right is it you know is it need to be replac in the next two years what are all the electrical panels how all of those panel is working now but basically it can fail right so we're going to make those kind of assessment to so that when I come back the next budget year I have quantification information to provide to you these are all maintenance needs that must be addressed because they're going to fail sometime so each one of these thing has very small component that is age we have a very age infrastructure so that is what this whole thing is about it's about making you know a very broad brush preliminary assessment is um to make sure that that this is happening and there are many other component this is the few I'm I'm raising here you have a bleach tank you have um those bleaches you realize is very corrosive right um how much more we have to remove you have generators right are they operational what are of the years of these generator they're 10 year old they're 15 year old it is time for us to have a plan to replace them so there are many other components of those thing that has to be addressed and that is what the um this small amount of funding was for but basically I could give it up because it would be just staff have to tighten the belt and get it done so so the $150,000 is going to be for an additional Personnel or for an outside company to come in and do yeah I had it there for an outside company to make an independent assessment all right so now if you and Nate is going to start doing this assessment a couple other employees is this going to take away from some of the responsibilities that you currently have well yes it will but it's not only Nathan Nathan myself you know you have sometime you have some slow period I can use other employee and to explain to them exactly what I need them to do right you know you have to do some research of information find the as plant understand what is happening so there's some research internally as well some Fe field investigation um you can trust me I know how to do this because this is really an a an a broad brush assessment it's not like a detail analysis that you're doing right just to find out how with infrastructure the age what has to be done in future years to replace them so yes yes commissioner to your question you have to balance to balance while workload it will take away some of the time from them but we we make it happen would it be conducive to maybe hire a short-term contractor to come in instead of $150,000 to like you said a broad assessment but to bring someone in specifically for a short term to kind of do that assessment for you you would be hiring a contractor well this money is for is to hire consultant to do it this was right that's exactly what it's for but um in order to make that cut to get it to 3.1 million dollar this is the only place I could probably get that money to come out from you see I froze even the assistant director of proposition all those are workload that I am currently doing with with other people there we have a lot of vacancy so there's a lot of stuff that I am putting in and to do home and weekend everything else I'm taking those you know so I am making the sacrifice and I know a lot of staff is making those kind of sacrifice in order to make this work because I also saw a freeze assistant director public service director that's you if if God forbid Mr deal that if you not here for whatever reason I mean who's your backup right now W each each department we have right each department managers there's no backup really what I'm doing is to try that's I'm saying I'm I am trying to put a plan together so that if something God forbid something happened to me you can have a plan to go forward there was no existing plan and that's why it takes time to do this and you're correct we don't have the funding because of this right now to do that um right planning situation mean you should have some somebody in place to under study and to take over at this time we have to take this um R this time here because of the funding needs I don't know can we keep that like I just feel like I mean he's been doing this along for what three years four years now yeah Pro you can be closer to year um and you know my our experience has been that we've lost some senior personnel and and there hasn't been a succession to some of the senior personel and I'm seeing their um jobs being kind of split between this uh you know among different employees and um there's no succession um I'm I'm a little concerned with freezing the assistant director of public services and and that's from experience of seeing what's going on with some of our senior staff uh exiting and that's a that's a concern to me so I don't know what I mean I see this is on sort of on the cuts but um I mean I he's confident about the water plant infrastructure assessment but I I have a concern with that too because water issue has been a big conversation here in the city of aapka um with every cut that is listed there's no doubt that it's going to have an impact so I mean he's he's comfortable with cutting that but um I'm I'm not too comfortable with freezing um an assistant director public services and if that position's been vacant for two years yeah that means we've saved that salary for two years already yeah and it Rose into that Reserve that has been used up and so the the only fund for this particular funding comes from the residents because the rates go interest go ahead you want me to go back why you go back and just for the public mainly is talk about the difference between 401 403 just because I don't think okay well fund 401 is what we call 401 your water Waste Water and Sewer fund and your sanitation fund and actually your impact fee fund as well but let's focus on the 401 your water Waste Water and Sewer fund is considered what we call an Enterprise fund it's like it's like a private it's supposed to generate enough Revenue to make a profit I don't cover your Cost Plus our rates are not at that level we're continuing to grow as you know the city of apaka as I understand it is growing Way Beyond Orange County is growing and the rates have been kind of at 3 3% 3% increase 3% increase 6% increase is does have the rates are not the funding is not there to cover the cost of repairs and maintenance we have a old system and to deal with the growth so we're at a point 43 is the growth B no the either way we got customer growth okay so to deal with the growth is the funding is not there those are the impact fees that's set aside for expansion but the deal the growth that's going on the more customers that we're bringing on the more repairs that have to take place even with the meters and everything else with the lines and everything like that has to be covered here and it's just not enough funding to support that that's why when you're trying to do projects that you had to do as I understand it like correct me May if I'm wrong gross embarker Plymouth um Ro pouth the Plymouth system and the Northwest Recreation system those fundings came out of Reserves and so now we're at a point where we're in a deficit we don't have anymore so basically when I said here we were under two consent orders one was the the Wastewater Plant we had to build or we'd have been shut down um then the second was North West under we were under consent order there as well so when was that can you can you explain to the public what is a consent order and when that was get here Deo you got to come explain that cuz in orders to my understanding I wasn't here right but back after 2018 you have there were one Wastewater Plant they called the East and the West Wastewater Plant what had happened when I rate some of this literature we had a plan that was in existence for in design for the East plant but because of of certain um regulatory standards and because the eastand only the Westland only had a capacity of three million gon per day and the type of development and the nitrogen content it was not meeting the regulation requirement that what they had they had a 10 10 um you know nitrogen content to reach it could not reach it because it was a old um type of of of a system so basically at that time the Water Management District right which is back in I think this is 2015 provide them a consent order no development could take place no permit anything else except you built another plant which which and that is how the East plant was constructed with well with the grant right that East plant has a 5 million gallons so these are not because these are why you give this consent or that those are because you're not reaching the requirement you have a development is taking place and that's the reason why that new 5 million um G um M MGD plant was built for the for the Wastewater Plant I can come back and give you you know a presentation on what the history what happened there but this was something really went on back in the 2015 um um era that time and and that was the reason for the content order the one in Jason D the one that I understand it right is that you had you know you had one of those um Pond I think they had this this irrigation system really there but you had a mixture of water you had you had the ReUse water was going there as well as the runoff um surface runoff well you cannot have those water to be mixed right so they so they came and want us to really have one Pond for stone water and and solely for for Reus water so that's from since that time in in 2015 2016 that the design was in place right in order for us to separate these reuse water and to and in order for us to use do those SP it is currently on the design we just had one project now on is UN bidding right for they call it little JD Pond where we are constructing a pump station everything to take the ReUse water solely from that pond excluding any stone water going to there and pump it to what the what the reservoir so these are things that was in the making from since back in the 2015 to now that we that come to the softare that we have the design in the plant but that is how those consent order was in place my understanding was was and this is something that I just read from some of the literature there so if I may ask a few questions here so this is the first time hear of consent orders that we had for the Jason dwelly Park didn't we just approve funding in some capacity or in some way oh yeah yeah because you approved the funding in order for us to con to do the retrofit the construction right but it wasn't it was exclusively because we have a consent order well it's because um we have to separate for example we have Tre Pawn right and you had reused water was going from our plant to there but there were also stor water pipes that goes into those fond so we had to separate them which they did um several year before I was here but what they did not do at the time we could not use that water you see that's I think they call it the the easta right the one with the with the kind of irrigation system that that go goes out there we couldn't use that water and and pump that water into the um into the tank right because it was the filtration system was not working it it def found so in order for us to fix those you guys um I came back here to the commiss you approved that in the budget purposes they were there in order for because for me to fix those so you have to restudy it get rid of those filtration uh system because they're underground they're below the pond they're not side of the pond to so there's a lot of engineering had to be done we had one of the engineering done we bid that out we have two more in progress well right now those thing take three to four years to be done and a lot of funding in order to do that so you're right if you look at those those information that come forward to you in the budget in the past two years what for Northwest but for those rets that we have to do when do we have to get this done by when is the they don't set the time for it it's just you can't use it for example we couldn't um although we have the reused water there right we couldn't use it except we correct the filtration system and correct the system so they were not a timeline they're just telling look you inv you can't do this right you cannot mix it to so we're just trying to correct it didn't set us like a fine or anything else in doing that it was just that you you this should never happen and this happened back from my understanding in the 2015 2016 well um time so it take this time in order for me you know to look at this and to fix but this design was going on prior to me being here it just was peace me it was just I you know an evaluation then a study F you know these kind of stuff was happen I just H what happened to come in and expedited and try to get the plan out right so and Mr chairman are you able to send us a a a a report annually for kind of our capex in this fund of where we're at with I can generate that yeah with with reserves where it went how what they were spent on and how we got to it take some time but I got I can compile some information I think it just helps to understand the narrative better because we're not in a great spot and what concerns me is that we're this isn't even Bare Bones this is no bones this is almost where we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot to where one thing goes wrong and and we're in a very bad position so a worse position than we are now so the the assessment I think is important to have to know where we're at quality wise with with all of our items and then we need to create a plan of what it looks like if we're pushing all this off is all this going to be on next year's budget then and if it is are we planning appropriately for that then so there's or are we just keeping pushing this off to where again we're in a bad spot so those are my biggest concerns especially with the asbest water M that project I know you you said there's some carriable funds which I understand that that's important though that's that's a health and safety issue that I want to make sure we're taken care of um and we need to make sure that we're not going we're not cutting too much to where we can't perform and I know what you're going to tell me is well we need the money for it so I know there's a balance there the other other one that I had um the the pension adjustment yes what Actuarial and what company recommended we do this no no this was Empire they um is the actuary for all of the pension board committees and they basically right now in their estimates they use about 7% but the pension board committees discussed taking that factor down it was recommended I think at some point to go down to the 6.75 I don't know if I heard anybody recommend that any of the meetings well I know they had a presentation I know they were talking about it and from what I heard everybody that rep represents EMP power or represents the company had said that that's not the best thing to do and especially in these big jumps like that we shouldn't be doing it should be much smaller incremental and that's what recently came about what you just heard is what I recently have been told that they decided not to go with that full recommendation down to the 6.75 but to do it incrementally over five so what is this showing here basically we're showing that we had factored in the budget the original budget going to the 6.75 now I changed that to the seven so we're 6.95 well you're around that number so instead of going so it's a savings force it cost us more the lower that interest rate that factor is right the more contributions but since we're increasing that factor that's why we have a savings well why isn't this reflected in that way then I'm saying it's that's it's not reflected in this paperwork I guess that that's in this presentation that the 6.95 is not reflected in this yeah that's my concern you have 7.0 versus 6.75 yeah because those are the evaluation numbers that I used so is the 99,000 based on the 6.75 or is it based on the 6. based on the [Music] seven I don't have the valuation based on the 6.9 so that number is gonna will actually decrease then yeah yeah but it's it's it's that I don't even know when they're going to implement that that may be another year out well from the meetings that I was in with the pension there was not a strong really resolve to the 6.95 for any reduction they said that we need to look at that more is what I was understanding of that meeting well I didn't attend the last pension meeting mayor well that you know they did the uh we made the you know the change on the the makeup of the fund and the fund even with the changes which which we made which are positive to the rate of return it was still 6.7 either 6.74 6.76 so their rate of return is lower than so back in 20 uh I I reduced it was 7.25% and I said we need to get it down to what a number that is that is um accurate or or or more representative of what the long-term U returns have been on the 6040 plan so that's we did that in in 20 and now we need to go down even further is to meet what the the the returns are I mean the last thing we need is a is a pension fund that's not that's not funded properly so it's a uh all the numbers you know as I can tell you when I was in in the legislature we were I want to say we were either at seven and a half or something and when we reduced the amount by a quarter of a percentage it was a $400 million change so you know and we so I talk with Bland said okay why don't we why don't let instead of doing the the whole hit down to 675 let's just let's gradually go down 0.05 each year we'll get there in five years and well that's what owering the they had recommended okay yes I only have the actual numbers because this this is what happens when they do that they have to update give me an actual analysis on that and they give me what those percentage of contributions would be and so what I have at this point in time I had the 6.75 because of earlier discussions that I had and I have the seven so if they haven't actually voted to go from the seven to the 6.95 we have have they no okay so they still are at the seven correct correct so that's why we're back at the seven and that's what this number is yes that's what that saving represents and that's what throughout all of this that's what that's representing just for this fund I know but in the general budget this is and and we can discuss it obviously when we get there but that's referenced as well there so yeah is it the seven 6.75 6.9 seven it's seven I know we want to do 6.95 I just don't have the numbers on that I if if they vote to do it and I get the numbers we can have that in the final budget but right now it's it's the 7% I don't know if they're going to have a pinion board mean by the time we have the final budget so I'm back at the 7% which is what they're basing everything on at this point I guess I just don't understand why we're seeing a revenue increase then if we're staying at the seven and you say these numbers the original numbers that we had in the budget was at 6.75 that's why you see a saving which never should have been well it never should have been there but that's that's okay I want to make sure direct and this is when especially in a in a time when our city is seeing a lot of deficits throughout all of our budgets is not the time to arbitrarily do that so it wasn't voted on by that board so to preemptively do it doesn't make sense either especially when we're cutting such big budget items that's all the questions I have thank you commiss Anderson no I don't have any questions okay anybody else Mr Smith All right so I think we okay so that's it I'm moving on so everybody's good with cutting these items and moov it to the 20% well I I I said I have a concerned with freezing the assistant director of Public Services we should not have directed deal that going home on the weekends to work no one else does that not true and if he if if if he's doing this just to keep up with the demand it's not fair to him um um and and it's been on the budget for the last two years is cutting it cutting it I just would like to see that back on the budget we'll we'll go through it and we'll massage whatever it is we need to do but we're here now this is it so okay so I just I'm not comfortable with leaving that on the cut Mr deal that should not be going home on the weekends to work to be getting ready to come back Monday and then work a full week I'm sorry and for us to sit up here knowing it it's it's uh it's not good commissioner I work weekends I work nights that's a lot to put on the director I got staff that work weekends take laptops home at work I'm not saying it's fair anyone but I'm just saying a lot of us work weekends and nights okay he does it on a consistent basis as well um and and you said that the last two years the position wasn't filled but it wasn't Pros it was just wasn't it wasn't fi that's my understanding okay and so you're saying that just roll over into we keeping the head count but we're just not putting the money there so just say for instance if throughout the year we see that we maybe generate some savings and then a candidate comes up or they get an idea same thing with the customer service specialist that is definitely needed as well if something comes up you know then we'll I'll come back to council and say I have additional funds I need to add this to the budget we now have some excess funds potentially you know that we can use and if we didn't freeze the position where would we get 126,000 from that's what I'm saying we wouldn't have the money to fund it we' have increase the rate more than the 20% that's recommended there moving the city engineer to Community Development how does that negatively impact I mean it does negatively impact by $200,000 the general fund correct so we'll talk that's a down yeah that's why this is first understood so to go back to the the um Empower report it's we did U when we changed the uh the makeup of the fund we were uh our normal the fund we had was expected return 10year return of 6.57 um and then the one that we we we changed to uh moved it up to 6.76 so for the 10e uh empowers look forward look back whatever they it came out to 6.76 is their their rate of return is what they're expecting so and I can send you that report from Empower which is why you recommended that we start yeah that's why we want to get down to 6.75 absolutely yeah okay anything else you want to take public comment on this one then go to I thought we weren't com we had we the end but um we'll just do at the end okay so I want to be clear so we good this is these are the proposed Cuts commissioner vquez has a problem with the freezing but as I explained should something come up this this was discussed internally if they see a a candidate that they think that they can get in like we'll have to come back and see what we can do in regards to fund but there's nothing we can really do there though right like there's not a what can we do if the revenue is not there now it's not going to be there in six months so so it in reality we're going to be in the same position next year and say hopefully we can fill this and we're going to have to increase so I mean maybe it's worth the conversation of let's get the assistant director position because again our line of succession through most of our departments many of our departments isn't there if one person leaves it's we're lost so that one helps to solidify departments make sure that we're strong and helps a balance within our department so what is a instead of 20% 21% or 22% increase to cover that that variable there tell balance at I don't know what the numbers are I'm sure you don't have them right off top your head but I think look that may be a possibility there to cover some of these I think the the assessment water plan assessment definitely needs to happen um and I definitely think the public director the assistant public director needs to happen looks like if you looked at I'm going back to this chart here and this is truly just a guess um you see the change between the 15% and the 20% when the sub total up there that says fees so we're looking at what about 1.2 million difference and that's at 5% yeah the 15% compared to the 20% and you know math on the top of my head say so 1.2 so every percentage points about 240,000 so that would it' be a 21.5% increasing utility rate would cover the assistant director position as well as the water plant infrastructure assessment and that's it I mean it if that's the pleasure I mean we can look at it 25% and see how many of these things that we can keep versus the 20% and still versus the 40 we have to do % increments no you can do them in whatever I'm just because I had that 5% increment of change gotta I think it's worth looking at so see what percent that we need in order to try to cover some of these critical things like the assessment um the a director freezing the director position any others the infrastructure assessment and then the asbestos water main again I know we have funds there it's just that's a health and safety issue that I think should be prioritized okay and what is the reducing low Reservoir pump fund pumping they the 200,000 for reducing the just to be clear the water plant infrastructure is only water it's not it's it's not the whole whole entire department right excuse this for Doo Oh okay um the water plant infrastructure assessment is only water it's not waste water and it's not that's correct yeah that's water it's just just the one right water F that's correct yeah right and um Commission in respect to the $200,000 Fund in there um we have a plan that is will be bit out shortly to fix some of the constraint that we found out at the Cleveland site there that plan is under is about 90% completed once that plan is bit out and re and we get a bidder right and then the construction Administration was proposed to be $400,000 right to make sure that the pumps and all all those things constructed look at that and I just reduce it by $200,000 to make this accommodation so those were because those money those fund has to come from 401 fun so basically I can still get that done right once the job is paid out I can have and then if I need any fund it will be roll over over the next fiscal year so that is a calculation how I reduce that $200,000 because you know to put the job out of bed even takes about three to six months the way is going right now so that's was the calculus of of how that chamber was made I mean it just you know one of the things that that happened the prior Administration we spent 15 million on a fertilizer plant we've never used we spent we spent four million on the fertilizer plant and 11 million on the West plant which we've never used and we spent seven million on uh the Lush Road Plant so we've we've wasted $22 million that could have gone a long way towards some of these infrastructure and yet here we are golden gem Pond would be under this yes so let's talk about that then that's I mean so we spent we allocated 950,000 correct for phase one correct what is the estimated cost yeah are we ever going to get that pwned up and running I mean we need 10 million bucks five million bucks no we're trying to do phase one de you might as well just just sit right here until I get off of this slide okay okay till we get past this slide okay all right commission that's the um what is the question that so I we allocated 9 50,000 I know they're actively going through uh phase one of what was discussed at the meeting uh with some variability they they change I guess and adapt as needed we're spending that correct me if I'm wrong that PA is going to need another how many millions to get up and running to actually be functional for our residents right the operation right now the $950,000 that you guys Ved on was in order for us to f the depression or the sinkhole or whatever it is right right now we are about 60% there right we on the expense so far $300,000 because we are going slow we doing the best we can I think that 950,000 would be close for me in order to resolve or to ret of it that s call and information that's just a guess so I may not have to come back to you in order to fix that that's my best guess that I'm doing at this time once we correct that the entire Pawn right has this membrane you know has to be fixed um if I go back and look at the the history they spent about $1.2 million to put in that membrane right this cost at this time I don't know I have to make an assessment so the first schematic is to correct the problem that is that the nature caused then to do a proper evaluation and a cost estimate right because remember in that entire Pond I can Sal is there anything I can salvage right or there is nothing I can salvage I don't know I have not performed that assessment you need funding to perform that assessment but I am just looking at in terms of time time frame right because it can be a hefty cost so if I was to provide to you some calculus number for you to think about I don't know I think the lows will be something like $2 million right and the high is you know up to four four $4 million but at this time until an evaluation is being done I will not have that number for you because cost estimate you know to go so that right and that's my best best guess and remember that is only to make that pawn let me make sure clearly to function to take reuse water right so that's point then you have to put in a Pump Station in order to make it the the whole circuit work right we are in design for that pump station right it is about 70% done at this time right what is that cost for that pump station to be constructed at this time is unknown right previously what had happened before we went this route we had a pum station that was designed by in-house staff and the cost came in to be $19 million because it was so we we because of of how the design was done so we went back to the drawing board and get the export to do this for us I am I do not perceive that that pump station are going to be $90 million I can tell you that is yeah you know impossible to be from your experience what do you expect a a reasonable pump not overbuilt but appropriate for that size and to service our residents what do you expect that to be I was assuming given the price of the market the same this is a GU don't hold but I think the best estimate I can give is 6.5 million 6.5 okay so we're we're at and this is not only the pump this is the distribution system you know they have the pump the filter everything else all the whole system corre okay so we're looking at 10 million to get that ish plus or minus 30% to get that um that facility up and running to serve our residents right it's about eight six and to8 yeah about 8.5 million right we don't have that budgeted anywhere or planned anywhere correct no and the question is that what I've have discussed with the me is because um we were going to do this in phas as soon as the pump station you know is designed we are looking out for Grant because we can apply for those Grant even for the membrane once I can get a a good evaluation done the whole the whole process is to apply for these grants to see if there's any Grant matching grant that we can do this s but it is not going to be be a fix for tomorrow it's going to be a time frame but without grants it would be a tremendous amount of of money to to fix that so the hope is is is to go ahead and to seek out grants to help us are we considering getting debt to finish this at all or what does that process look like that's also a potential but we're not there yet until we get a cost estimate or evaluation done okay all right that I mean that's a that's a big um cap X that that needs to be finished and and that's something we get at least I get a lot of complaints from different residents about water um pressure and things like that for their irrigation things like that and that's where that would be come in handy for our residents so not having that is a big big problem and grants or debt are not guaranteed so not to mislead anybody yeah can only try say that again I said grants or debt are not guaranteed especially when you're dealing with repairs so this there there's an option an outside option that or possibility this just doesn't get fixed because we don't have money your outside option you're end up pulling money from the general fund at the end of the day if it's something that comes to this significant and there emergency you have no other resource but to pull from the general f okay okay and the like the asbest pipe we had a million dollar grant that that was um that we had then Congress went back into session and whacked our million dollars so we had to eat that we would have this first phase would have been covered most of it by the the grant but we lost the grant yeah there's no guarantee so we're not we're not going to do the adest those the first the first main replacement we're not doing it first first phase we are the first phase is that's yeah I think they've already started yes I already started there be it was come on yes come on and the first and the first phase of that construction work will begin September I think September the 22nd I think um we just had a pre-construction meeting uh we got a schedule so the first phrase of that work which is by the Martin High School right are going to start the what the contractor is just ordering his material he expected time to begin Construction September the 22nd I think if I recall do we have an estimate cost for the total amount of Asus pipes that need to be removed and replaced we have a total cost for that there is 10.6 mil of asbesto spile I think to be remove right this section that we are doing right now is less than less than one mile and the cost is is roughly I think um $14 million wow and this one is just one mile the first phase less than one mile because it's expensive to the material cost the constructibility you see the construction not only you say okay you go ahead and replace a pipe you have constraint you have utilities you you have constriction of of of traffic control all those are taken into consideration how these cars are come up right I don't have that number in me but I know it was bit out it came to the board we issu the the trct I think closer to 1.2 was the construction cost for that but deal the 10 miles includes the uh the galin the St pipe not it's not all it's not all right right right as is more expensive than the other one is 2.5 but the Opus pipe is most is about eight to n miles of opis pip all right are we good so we can I guess then they'll we'll get the CI get that to the yeah I got to compile that information give me some time okay on on that but again I'm want to be clear where we stand right here you want me to look at a percentage increase between the 20 and maybe 25 to see to cover some of the key expenses that you want to keep in here so I'm understanding correctly right that we need to keep yeah I think it's valuable all right so I I want to make sure I ident identify those we're talking about the um uh freeze on the assistant director public um service director the 500,000 for the aestus pipe the 150,000 for the water plant infrastructure assessment any other now I typically don't lobby but I do want my customer service specialist position with all the growth I'm not the one in the lobby but I'm lobbying today for my staff if you recommend it then if it's needed then let's do it I mean that's today for my staff they it's we can't keep overworking everyone I mean that's it's it's killing morale so yeah if you highly recommend it let's do it then okay so we we'll take a look at those um those items and we'll see what the percentage increase should be to accommodate that okay thank you so much now we have that before September 5th you're gonna have to because I gotta bring it to you on September 4th sir I have to bring the proposed rate increase and you have to approve it on September 4th as well as the tenative budget um and the U millage rate at the 1:30 meeting is when we talk about the rate increase yes sir now we're get into the fund got to make this exciting the general fund the general f propos changes okay yes original budget was with um the use of reserves was about the 97846 143 and at that time we estimated the use of reserves and keep in mind when I say reserves these are reserves that we have set aside okay for Planned Capital use for one-time use and and our policy allows it and it's also the use of reserves that are in excess of the 25% per our policy okay so that's the 97.9 and then additional increases to support um Union negotiations a 1.7 the mayor um incor included that and then an additional recommendation came from commissioner Smith and that is additional 1.7 for streets now with the list of changes that I'm going to share with you on the next page and because of that pension adjustment you're looking at a we can reduce that use of that excess reserves I think each of you are familiar with these items that have basically been brought forth for recommendation of either reduction or addition um and I think we've talked through some of them in the past some of the ones that I think we still need some further discussions on um I would start with let's see do we want to talk about the rotary membership mayor are you good sure no let's take it out take mine out take take the the other Commissioners out of the yeah Tiger Bay that's fine my personal opinion is I'd wipe out every additional so if if you're asking my opinion is we wipe out everything that's that cost us additional money and we use that money to to fund other either either red I'd like to reduce the millage but at least not not go to the higher amount so so it be removing anything that says add and yeah well some of it yeah that's my that's what he saying I'm gonna go down the list because otherwise we'll be confused um the Tiger Bay membership commissioner vquez you asked that I add you and commissioner nesa well you know that was that was before I found some other stuff on Tiger Bay because I understand that Tiger Bay was dissolved and then it we opened somewhere else and and this is really a political Club it's a private club okay um so any of the memberships that are private should the city taxpayers shouldn't be paying for anyone's private um dues or membership I can see Florida League of cities because that benefits the city we do attend um their conferences uh that I can see um there was some other things here but any private membership um should not be paid by any of the taxpayers at all um there was a nonprofit sponsorship um and I I believe that was commissioner Anderson for 100,000 but we don't have anything in place we're gonna we're gonna get to that down there let me let's we got a few more to that's I want to try to go in order commissioner if you don't mind okay so the Thousand do you saying I can take that out correct you no longer want me to add that ,000 for you and commissioner Nesta am I correct no no you can take that out okay I will remove that when I when I asked you know when I said that at that time I was unaware of what the tiger Club was and then um in research and then um uh a member of the of our community did send me some information and uh and it was that the title Club Central Florida was dissolved and then it it started again and I think it was Orlando yeah Orlando they they started a new one in Orlando so I but it's it's a political Club okay okay it's a private club understand so the cleaning the fire stations two Services per week we added at the request of commissioner Smith at $50,000 is any discussion on that item is that per week or per month year annually that's an annual amount two Services per week listen y'all y'all do what you want I I I just think when we're raising water rates minimum 20% we're we're raising at least 05 Mills I can't justify at once I mean that obviously y'all can and and and you know I'm just one one boat up here but I I just I think we've got to be is if it was a need um I think commissioner Smith the first one which was the roads absolutely agree that's 100% you know we had to cut the road to balance our our general fund budget absolutely but I just think we got to be you know was is as Frugal as we can in this this this economy and and U this why with um I I think that's a health issue myself right I mean we with the fire department with the fire houses I should say the fire stations um I mean we have we have firefighters is sleeping there um living there um you're keeping it clean and uh aesthetic for them it's it's important I mean who else would who else would be doing that I mean we have we have a cleaning crew that comes in for all of us here right in the city I don't know my understanding that they the firefighters themselves um clean the facilities or whereever they are on occasion and maybe they require additional assistance um based on your discussions with them commissioner they need it needs additional assistance we SK the one about replacing the windows at found station 5 we already got that done in this year's budget oh we already got that do do you want inter yeah he can tell you more mayor will Sanchez and fire chief we're very thankful of the opportunity obviously to Showcase as far as our stations and everybody that's come to it we do take a lot of pride in our stations we clean them daily I think the intent and really the belief behind this was for deeper cleaning there is no further deep cleansing as far as we went through the covid period everybody was aware of that and we maintained all of our own stations I think the intent behind this was possibly looking at something quarterly even annually a deeper cleaning service maybe not so much to this extent where it's twice a week somebody coming in because we do take care of that in house okay so you're comfortable with that being removed correct well not he's not saying completely removed but there needs to be we maybe we reduce it to once every other week to your point maybe doing deeper clean like that or cleaning service disinfectant what I what well when I saw when I saw two Services per week that that wasn't the intent I don't think we need to do it that frequently but I think it needs to be done at least once a month that that we need to have a deep clean to go in there and do things that firefighters some health hazard disinfectants as far as deeper clean mold stuff as far as we do with daily cleaning all of our stations as far as that shift change they're checking their trucks they're also maintaining their stations I think the intent behind this was actually that deeper cleansing yes R the Williams parks Recreation director and I can answer this for you commissioner we did in the facilities maintenance budget increase a little bit in our janitorial line to do some more of these deep cleanings twice a year at the fire stations so it's floor cleaning and some uh deep cleaning on the bathrooms so we've already so we've got that in our facilities maintenance budget this was uh to add the cleaning service throughout the year okay like we do at other our other facilities other facil yes all right let's try it see see what it looks like so so if he has already put that in his budget then that means we take the whole 50 from year um if that's what you're proposing long is it his budget commissioner Smith it's only twice a year though and I I feel like that wasn't your sentiment or your your yeah he just said twice a year yeah yeah I I got a he just said twice a year this is the um cleaning that you requested it is right now is twice per week if you want to cut it in half and do once one per week that's less 25,000 versus the 50,000 I think rley when you and I talked didn't they have an initial deep cleaning with this [Music] 50,000 so there you go but it's twice a year so so we cut this in half and make it 25 instead of this year is that pleasure okay all right so that'll go to 25 to twice per week once once per week right sir yeah cut it in half got it so the next item oh commissioner Anderson this is your item that you proposed the 100,000 in nonprofit sponsorship is program that you wanted to implement so I know you asked me to kind of give a detail about kind of what they look like so I kind of just made just some quick notes on what my vision for that program was so with my background being in Social Services working in the juvenile sector working with Department of um children homes society and um one of the things so with the $100,000 um allocated for U the not for-profit organization um it was to provide like essential Human Services to Youth and senior citizens the the focus is on preventing juvenile delinquency enhancing the quality of lives for seniors living independently the plan emphasizes on tax pairs funding funded um accountability and ensures that all participated organizations meet minimum capacity requirements so for example the target population will be youth youths between the ages of 10 to 18 we were focus on at risk use to prevent juvenile delinquency engage in programs that promote positive development mentorship education and Recreation um activities um the senior citizens um ages 65 and up focus on seniors living independently provide services that enhance physical health mental well-beings and social engagement um my rationale behind it was one the prevention of juvenile delinquency um the cost Effectiveness um investing in prevention um programs is most cost effective than dealing with consequences of juvenile delinquency such as increased law enforcement costs Court proceedings and po potential and incarceration um the long-term impact is early interventions through mentorship educational support um well I've got along those lines I wanted to talk about the summer program I didn't get a lot of of but we should let commissioner Anderson finish finish did you finish so we have so the where was I with it so the so that the cost effectivess then you have your long-term impact so early intervention through mentorship educational support recreational programs can redirect youth towards positive outcomes reducing future delinquency un social services and Loring crimes rates then you have your taxpayer benefits by reducing crime and promoting positive development these programs help create safer communities which enhances um um property values and attracts businesses ultimately benefiting all residents okay and then improving the quality life for senior citizens so agent in places supporting seniors to live independently reduces a strain on public health services and long-term care facilities um the soci and health benefit is programs that offer health screening social activities transportation services reduce isolation improve health outcomes and lower healthc care costs um the community engagement um engaging seniors in community activities increases their sense of purpose and belongings contribute to overall Community um inst stability um the program Administration and Grant distribution um the grant um allocation process so the application period open for 60 days to allow for a maximum participation um the requirements will be the organ organizations must have be a 501c3 demonstrates a proven track record of serving youth or senior citizens in apopa additionally organizes organizations must meet minimum capacity requirements including staff qualifications financial management capabilities and um operationally sustainable um the accountability measures how are we making sure these programs are effective is all Grant recipients will be required to adhere to strict reporting guidelines and demonstrate responsible stewardship of taxpayers dollars so there's three different Grant tiers so you have your small grants from $5,000 to $10,000 for your smaller organization on specific um Project funding these organizations must demonstrate sufficient organiz organizational capacity to manage and execute the purpose project effectively then you have your medium grants between $10,000 and $20,000 for organizations looking to expand existing programs or develop new initiatives organizations must provide evidence of their capacity to scale operations in held increased funding responsibility then you have your larger grants which is 20 plus for organizations with established programs that have demonstrated significant impact in um scalability these organizations must meet higher capacity requirements included Advanced Financial Management Systems experience leadership in a history of successful program execution I'm almost finished um the your program monitoring evaluation how are we monit and effectance of the programs we have the regular reporting the funding organization will submit detailed quarter reports outlining program activities Financial Financial expenditures and measurable outcomes these reports will be reviewed to ensure they align with the goals of preventing juvenile delinquency and improving senan's quality of life um the site visits in your audits City representative will conduct regular site visits in where necessary Financial audits to verify the funds are being used appropriately and these programs are operating effectively any misuse of funds will result in immediate correct actions including the potential withdrawal funding um the outcome measurements success will be measured through participant surveys reduction in juvenile crime rates in improving Sen's quality of life organizing falling through meets organizations fall into meet performance benchmarks will required to implement Improvement plans the risk of losing future um funding and the tax bar funding accountability so the minimum investment with a high return the 100% allocation represents a small fraction the city's budget but has to potential yield significant long-term benefits including reduced crime lower health care costs and improve community well-beings and engagement um this site oversight to ensure taxpayers dollars are used effectively the grant program includes um stringent outcomes including regular reporting site visits INF Financial audits these ensures transparency accountability and how public funds are utilized the public confidence by holding organizations accountable and requiring them to meet minimum capacity standards the city ensure that taxers Investments are made in organization capable of delivering measur results this builds public trust and local government um demonstrating commitment to um um to financial responsibilities so in conclusion allocating $100,000 support not for-profit organization and a POA is a Strate Strategic investment in the city's future by emphasizing taxpayer fund accountability ensuring that all organizations need minimum capacity requirements the city can be um confidentially invest in programs that address critical social issues enhance quality of life and create safer more vibrant communities for all residents this modest investment when managed to with strict oversight will have a lasting and positive impact on the well-being of aular citizens and the overall health of the community so I did kind of really you ask me to kind of something I appreciate M Anderson would you be sure to to send that to Susan yeah we'll have it for the record and then can you send it Susan to each of the Commissioners you want rally yeah one of the programs that that was that it might kind of got glossed over but I want to talk about is the next summer next Summer's program that we are taking on so it just so and I don't remember what the the cost was for just to recap we were uh we're looking at adding two summer two athletic Sports Camps at one at uh wheatle Elementary School and one at Apopka Middle School that'd be for 100 Campers at each location Athletics full day Sports Camp eight weeks throughout the summer um to provide some more camp opportunities for residents in the area and what was the cost of was it like 25,000 something uh total cost for each we're we are right around 104,000 how much 104,000 for each you said 104,000 104,000 for each yes and this is an eight week Camp eight week camps so after that it's over it's just for the summer June and July correct so my vision is you know that there will be actually servicing for a period of a year so this is just for eight weeks $100,000 correct this would be a summer camp it would be a summer camp program yes and there already aot you know a lot of free summer camps already throughout the city already uh there are a lot of there are summer camp programs some of the programs we currently run are at capacity with weight list so this would help alleviate some of that as well and and it's in cooperation with ocps so they're getting a a meal and I know that they're gonna they're they're excited to help us with you know some educ it's more than just Athletics it's it's educational as well yeah we talked about a possible educational component yeah as part of but the focus is not at risk youth in juvenile delinquency this is a focus more on preent prevention prevention a lot of times with these programs here at these summer programs you're at risk youth aren't at these programs they're somewhere on your corner they're somewhere getting in trouble so this is a prevention mechanism that that I'm looking to do in addition to that the seni as well okay so can I just ask you a couple quick questions is it do you do you already have a a couple organizations in mind or is this because we and I think you made the point last time we have so many people that come to us doing so many things and this is kind of that one fund that we don't have to take from reserves or anything like that so is that that was my my goal because there's so many different little programs a lot of people are doing this now with their programs now but I feel like if we're able to have within the the city where they can go straight to the city and then come into in because we we don't have enough money to go around um and I know a lot of programs I mean we have someone here um that has a program that can benefit from this as well so if we can have something that we're constantly funding where they can come here and say okay we know we can get for example we can get $5,000 um for the year that's better than $500 from each of us and they can do more and they can have a greater Outreach and then too when we give them money there's no accountability this is accountability they have the repor there's measurements there's a lot accountability it would be interesting to see if we could create like a policy that does create that those specific and we all adopt it to say hey these are the metrics very specific maybe we massage some of it a little but I to your point it does there's a lot of people that do come and we spend it annually so I I just don't want to create a program where um because who's going to manage it that's whole thing who's going to oversee it who's going to manage it who's going to be on keeping tabs of it and a lot of times I find that some of the nonprofits um when they have the grant you're talking about administrative costs so um you know we' be supporting an administrative cost um so at this time I just feel the intent is good but right now in the budget that we have we're under staffed so now we have to create a department to oversee a grant program I don't think we're big enough for that right now or what we can do is in within the $100,000 we can allocate for a contractor to administer that Grant $155,000 part-time position and it could be allocated through that $100,000 you reduce the $100,000 so that way it won't put more strain on staff do we have um Dr Jackson grant writing could she do with is that to duplicate is the capacity there is what you're asking to to be like kind of a grant administrator as well I would say yes I have to be honest I just want to make sure and that's something obviously dealing with is is having too many people doing too many jobs obviously not being compensated appropriately so just something to think about and make sure that her her task list is not already full and we're adding to it well remember she had the youth program and we transferred that over so so does would she have the capacity you feel to men I would say I would say yes just being honest and that we wouldn't have the creative position not at this time okay okay I'm just being honest May whatever you think y I try not to get I don't want to get into the politics but I'm if you ask me a question I'm gonna tell you yeah it's true well not politics it's just yeah questions well well I like the concept because there are nonprofits that that ask you know does the city have grants nonpr yeah we we have a process shenya I think being the individual that she is she loves these types of programs and it doesn't have to be $100,000 I just want to it could be $50,000 but I think it's important that we have something and if you're saying that she have the capacity to administer it I don't see why I mean yeah didn't we partner with codium with Rod love yeah he he's done a couple programs for us yeah so he so we're duplicating some of those programs so he has a program now not now not now back in the past oh yeah I guess those programs don't exist any I'm not familiar with them I just I feel at this time with $100,000 with right I we're going back and forth um that we can kind of Park this for a little bit and just go over everything that we are kind of removing I think our youth services is so important uh I just don't the impact that when they we don't have anything to do and we're focused on at rescue we're keeping them I mean we're the reduction of crime then be just the impact well so so let me ask you this what we just got rid of the summer program then just just took that 100,000 and rolled that into your program but if you guys felt there was a need already there we need to serve our youth I think that's that's summer program that's just the summer I think as long as we have a a structur a policy that we can all get behind and agree and there is to to what you um stated um transparency built in audits things that we can track of of um who's getting what money how it's being spent things like that and as long as it's benefiting Our Youth and our population it I don't people need it now more than ever so and and if these organizations can stretch these dollars further than we can because a lot of these organizations they already in year round already so adding to their budget of services they already creating allow them to service work you well senors no money will be spent until the program is established and approved by this Council anyway yeah so and create a policy in place and yeah I think I think that's policy we can do you think that shenya can get um some ideas on so what that structure would look like sure yeah B between now next the next I'll try I'll ask you know hey we'll see what we can gather next couple next couple of weeks is what you're asking yeah okay before we finalize the budget but right now it's it's in as it is until you know yeah let's okay I understand and then we look at the program and then you if you don't like it you don't move forward with it but the money set aside okay okay and it does I mean just one last thing I mean it does help to empower our seniors and youth and again I just to Echo exactly what you're you're saying there is that it we're here to support them and and again this just goes along way so I'm all about empowering Our Youth and our seniors especially now we do have a a large program that we do uh uh cater to our senior population to Frank Colton we have plenty of programs in fact Frank Fon uh you know our staff our director there almost all the programs there are geared towards senior related yeah so think those are programs this is more impacting um at your house at a local like right at your house this isn't just events and things like that at least as my understanding again we can create a policy that kind of um um funnels this into exactly what we're expecting to where it's not just events and things like that it's impacting directly it's not only that but they nonprofit organization out there that are providing services to both Youth and to seniors but sometimes they're limited as what they could do because the funding is not available so if we could provide some additional funding to assist those nonprofits I think it'll be a plus plus but back to the the uh these aren't just parties I mean like the we got the the Zumba we have uh the chair exercise no this is no no no no what I'm saying is commissioner Nest was saying that this is parties it's not I didn't say party I said events not event it's it's actual um workout they feed them also right don't they have like they do they do potluck lunches and all this is compliment to that in Home Services making sure that they're you know getting transportation to doctor's appartments and things like that so a lot of different services that they we have we have those resources we would just need to somehow connect with them because we have the Meals on Wheels we have where they do get Transportation I forget the uh program that you can reach out to and they have that I know there's those I and the nonprofits will connect they have nonprofits I have a a relative that lives in Orlando that has all those resources um so and sometimes it's just partnering with those resources and having them kind of come into the city of aapka because they are all over I for me right now at this at this stage what we need to do as a city is to address the homeless population the the ones that are right now in our city that's where I feel that we need to really address and invest some money but this doesn't discriminate against this is only for youth or only I think it opens it up to all nonprofits and so as as long as it's and again we can create a policy that makes sure that it states that here's our intentions here's our expectations here's where we want similar to CRA funds or things like that it's we can direct where those funds go and so especially on the H side totally agree or the unhoused we can help support those groups that are coming to us individually and and actually formalize the process for them to understand there's going to be funds there and again that the these organizations can make these dollars stretch a lot longer and a lot further than the government can and we can add that this is just a something asked me to give an idea and what my vision is but of course we all can kind of massage it a little bit little to add and please share that with me as well so I can get with shaena on it and see if she can come up with you know what the mayor had um requested and I guess let us Dr jackon says that this isn't um if this is not part of her title and job description let us know so that we can regroup on our side too I want to make sure that she's bought into this because we need a great administrator that is passionate about this and if she doesn't oh I yeah I believe she will be pass I think so too I just want to make sure that we're confirming with her as well yeah I if not the finan director will plent and the finance director will delegate okay so let's go let's go to the next one um Fire Department events for new hires and their families commissioner Nester that was yours for $10,000 we can get rid of that one it's it's and I'll figure out how to fund this separately okay probably privately remove okay um we're taking 2,000 out mayor that was Radley's so we're taking that out for the cemetery but we are adding the additional 300,000 for Cemetery storage and I think that was yours commiss neston I thought from conversation with you are we good with that or not Rally you wanna that's the cemetery the building additional funding Cemetery storage uh Cemetery storage uh 300,000 we had requested additional funding to finish that building which we're currently designed I see add on here an additional 300,000 well I don't know if this and I we discussed also the Bay Ridge Cemetery and I know we've already spent some money on that even though it's not ours so we need to decide are we taking it on to retain it and preserve its history or are we not going to take that on and let it be overrun and and not preserve it so that's what these funds were about is is they yeah so we're still at the point where we're the the uh owner of the property needs to decide whether they're going to Annex into the property uh the communication I've had with the um point of contact listed on the property appraiser website indicated she is interested in that I don't have any documents or anything yet to show she has the ownership or title of the of the property that's kind of the step we're still at um and then she would have to start a proc initiate a process through Community Development for annexation well we can get and maybe this is part of that funding is either our our attorney or a separate title agent um a closing agent to start doing a title surge go 100 years back to ensure that we got clear title that she is on title and that she has the ability to convey that property so we do have a little bit of I mean we haven't used all the funds that were allocated this fiscal year for bayri if that's something we you would like us to go forward with we can try and get those funds we need to re-budget at least a little bit of funding then okay and and 300,000 is just uh that's the big wish list of making sure that we can redu fencing and clean it all out and and clean whatever we need so if if we just want to take this year at a time and I think we allocated 75 last year it was 75,000 yeah and and it's up to the board here but if we can reduce it to that just to ensure that this keeps moving forward because again that's all going to be developed here soon there's a lot of big developments that are planed to wrap around this property and kind of Now versus not now it's very important that we either do it now or we're not going to be able to do this down the road properly things are going to get lost destroyed paved over whatever it may be and it's important that we either preserve it and we we choose to preserve it or we don't yeah but I think the sticking point was getting a title for the sem well the the homeowner the landowner would have to initiate the process to Annex the city wouldn't initiate that process the land owner is the person that we've been kind of that's been out contact she's been she's been taking care of the cemetery she's listed as the care of she's so we would need to have there need to be some documentation to to prove title of the land she she gave us the the right ability to go out and clean it so we had a crew of what two six or eight guys out there yeah so a title as commissioner said a title search would need to be done typically the the person that owns a property would do that uh commissioner nest's uh recommending that the city go ahead and start that process so there'd be some funds that need to be all until she's given us the she hasn't really said she wants to be in the city yet has she I mean I haven't she's been kind of non-committal on that or am I am I I haven't heard from her in a while I know our initial talk with her there was some interest there to potentially do it but uh we haven't had any documents provided is she waiting for us to do the title for her for her award no I no someone at least advis her that that's where we needed to start was yeah I've reached out to her yeah I've reached out to her to ask for any documentation or you know proof of title proof of ownership and then informed her of the process process of annexing into the city let me just give you a scenario if she walked away from it and abandoned it then who would be in charge of that sary I'm not 100% sure I believe the county might have to step count or state county or state I'm not sure i' have to we'd have to get some legal guidance on that as an abandoned Cemetery I do think it's important to preserve our history but again it's it's the council if if and again 300,000 is the dream all wish list so I I think it's worthwhile to allocate some money to continue to maintain it knowing that's it's going to become ours or hoping or helping that that process it's a piece of our history so how much would it cost to do the title uh I think Jim hit before he left had spoke somewhere around like 10,000 dollar range likely for a title SE be that much 15002 15002 that's and that' be titles insurance as well like coup really about less than 500 I mean correct less than 500 that's what we're paying that's a problem yeah no then I I would have no problem with allocating some of start sech so at least we'll know who owns it think I totally agree I'm I'm I like that so drop it to five so we can start the title search and we we've been well we need to go back out and clean it again we we you know it's it was really good shape um now the the great vins are coming back but um it was in pretty good shape it needs it needs maintenance every so often throughout the year to to keep I just saw something on social media where they the Girl Scout Troop created a um and they cleaned it up also they did a clean up and then they did a some kind of signage identifying the cemetery B we cleaned it up just recently well they got a new sign and they put a flag B there is and then I yeah which was a nice Pro it was a great project again to to preserve history so we're we're reducing it from 30 100,000 to 5,000 yeah correct just to keep the process going I thought we was doing out of the budget we've already approved ,000 no I think we already spent now so we have money this fiscal year but as blanch I think was indicating to me we're coming tight up to the end of the year so we would need to re-budget some money because those funds can't carry forward five grand about five grand Y is that going to be enough for title and cleaning m that won't be enough of cleaning but at least let's get the title work started okay that may be the dead end there of yeah correct okay the de end all right so the next item we're removing I think Ry diesel yours don't go too far um 50,000 um out of your budget for the Northwest Recreation um Cemetery storage expansion walkways took 50,000 off of that and 3,000 for some workstations now the 30,000 is a separate thing this is the one that commissioner Nester you requested he had it combined for new community events about 30,000 and you wanted to just give 12,000 to each one of those events specific line items specific line it yeah so it's like an increase of 6,000 and the the the Northwest wreck sidewalk so that's where everybody's walking in the dirt correct correct we if I remember the discussion in the note here we had uh talked about removing uh or removing that uh expanded Capital $100,000 and but putting $50,000 back into the repair and maintenance to upkeep the existing so we're trying to get and and you we have applied for a Brant to make this an even bigger and better tourism uh draw and we're going to have people walking in dirt so there are Pathways just as we had talked about they're a little small um and the grant funding that we've applied for did not address any of this inside the existing its new ad so um we're working uh I'm working with Parks maintenance uh about adding some other material maybe along the side of the sidewalks in the inter room some crushed rock uh shells to kind of beautify the look and provide a little bit more pathway while we still have that the concrete um but yeah that the ask was to try and increase expand some of the sidewalk sizes if no one else is passionate about this I'll drop it but I do think it's valuable since it produces income for us I mean I'd rather see you span the sidewalk as opposed to putting out Across The Rock well yes there's uh expanding the sidewalks is a per more permanent solution the crush rock is more decorative obviously people can still walk on it it's a little bit better surface than so are we expanding or we making it wider or is it exp expanding with so there there's already there's already sidewalks there we're trying to get wider so they're not actually walking on dirt there's already sidewalks there's sidewalks what's happens is you got such large crowds lar larger yes if you go look at the sidewalks you can see on each side the pathways of everybody walking because there's not enough room to walk on the sidewalk two directions so like I said in interim we've looked at some options to add some but there are a lot of different areas in the city that doesn't have any sidewalks at all so that was my concern is that instead of expanding sidewalks that they're currently there we should take that those funds and actually places where there's no sidewalks actually at sidewalks in that that was my that was my rationale behind it and I think I think that you were concerned about the sidewalks that are in the CRA and we Shar with you that we do have um two projects one phase one is complete and phase two is underway but I have some additional concerns now so when I received that email from that parent whose child was walking in the dirt over to off of pun can that was a concern so mayor and and I think Michael is here so with one of the increases in the millage rate we're adding additional funds back to the streets budget um and I know it includes sidewalks I think I put about 500k you'll see that probably on the wolf lake that Wolf Lake Area there dangerous there sidewalk deals with those is it just sidewalk repairs Mike or I think Pond can we're we're we're moving forward with that now that okay yes so I just want to make sure that the safety of the that's that's real so those type things will be covered under that and it's for existing not new not new okay okay and there's no sidewalks at all on that on the pond can where those children are back and forth to school and from school there's no sidewalks at all okay so I I do recommend before we actually fund to widen sidewalks that we actually Safety First with the kids first that's my recommendation and I think um we can look at some impact fee funds we do with new sidewalk so that we can deal with I think we have some fun set aside in there so just share your concerns okay okay so all the p in it's not all of it but it's if you go like to you know going towards zelwood um It's actually kind of went there myself because I was very very concerned and actually driven the route and there was no side walks um at all I don't think like see Pon can Pon is Orange County the sidewalks are city of AP city of AP oh and we don't go past Plymouth sento I don't think the city because on the left well no we have the one neighborhood um that brand new neighborhood behind zood station it's in the city no is that where you're referencing I don't think that's where you're referencing I thought she said W Lake yeah wol Lake no it's definitely more East more East it's definitely in the city all that's the city right but we don't maintain those Road those not the road we don't maintain that's within the city though I think I could yeah it's Orange County so we have an agreement with it I'm sorry Mike Ortiz program supervisor for the streets um we have an agreement with them where we maintain the rideway but the road itself Orange County owns it still so we just have that agreement so anything that happens in the road like a pothole or anything Orange County responds to that anything that happens to the sidewalks then we respond and it's true what the mayor said we stop at a certain limit to with that agreement with Orange County and Orange county maintains everything else after that so I guess I want to see I think those are I think understand the roads for the sidewalks we main maintain the sidewalks right we're responsible for it yes if you're talking about a front of the elementary schools we do for Wolf Lake yeah yes so there's if you continue to there's no sidewalks I going going west west so it's on depends on what so if you're going west past the school past the school yes there's no there's no there's no sidewalks well I think that the new subdivision I'm pretty sure we don't have anybody froming there I think there sidewalk there yeah it's West it's going west neighborhood new neighborhood they they'll have to put the sidewalks in yes okay so there there's a there's a sidewalk yeah there's sidewalks there if you you keep going up there's no there's no sidewalks I I actually called the parent I driven I was there watching the toalk there's no sidewalk I think once you pass U I think it's Line Drive Line yeah once you pass line drive there is no more sidewalks after that but that's where the jurisdiction between us and Orange County that's when Orange County takes over and then they own a lot of it so we stopped there we're not responsible no after that it's all orang County I can show you a map if you like okay okay I just want to make sure that's very dang Community yeah that's Wolf Lake Branch the new community to the right that's wol Lake Branch they'll they'll have to put the sidewalk in in front of there no we're going to continue to go down to those new subdivision there's no sidewalks down there but you're saying that's Orange County resp for those side it transfers over to Orange County after that and they maintain even though that's City uh so that's within the city yes we there's if you look at the map it's kind of cookie cutter so there's a lot of areas that Orange County owns and a lot of areas that AP Papa owns within the same scope and that's one of them ponkin one of those roads where Orange County owns a section of it and we maintain a certain section of the we work with Orange County make sure that we're we can we can reach out to Orange County because if you saw what I saw I was just really it was just alarming to those kids walking like it really is a safety issue okay yeah like last year when they they built the Kelly Park K8 we we went all the way from the the trailer park on Kelly Park all the way to to Jason dwell so we it was about a Mich remember how much it was like I say $400,000 yeah it was about 400 the sidewalk so it was a all the way from the trailer park all the way down now yeah on the other side going West on Kelly Park it's not there but that's where the new road the Rocks I mean the Kelly Park the new subdivision is being built and it's true and it's true what the mayor said every time a yes correct correct every new Sub C yeah it's it's it's kind of like weird because you take let's say the the Welch in Rock Springs Road East of Rock Springs on Welch is is Orange County West is poka South on Rock Spring Road uh south of Welch is a popka north of Welch is Orange County so we have two two sections of that and they have two section yep okay but yeah we we need to we'll get that put together but yeah and we have that you know we have that little fund just just for for people don't know we have a little fund that we get uh money from the signs at the on the boxes the telephone boxes at the intersections not a lot of money but but well the first time we did you know we spent the money and we took it from that neighborhood there on Pon Canan and and hooked it up to the you know the uh where it started so it you know we we spent a little money it's $20,000 a year or something like that but yeah doesn't go very far but you know it's something y so in regards to this 50,000 are we good with the reduction I I I'm suggesting that we keep it and expand those sidewalks I think that's an investment in a prime event spot that we have for our city okay is that for repairs no no that's should expand to make the sidewalks wider he was in other words side the sidewalk yeah so it say 100,000 it says 50 he's just reducing it to 50 to do a different instead of doing the concrete expans you're doing rocks right no so the discussion was how we got to he was we had initially requested $100,000 for replacing and widening sidewalks at the complex discussion came to remove $100,000 and add $50,000 into our repair and maintenance of sidewalks instead in our budget oh but it sounds like that doesn't make the ask now is to go back to $100,000 for expanding or go back to $50,000 for exp how much do you need to properly we so we can't do it all at once so this would this would address one quad of four fields at 100,000 yes yeah I think it's important I think the rock is going to be a liability too for some people that I don't recommend the Rock at all yeah it's not well it's not a it's a crush shell it's a it's something you'd see on a pathway a natural pathway a temporary fix so it's just it's not a permanent we have to maintain it no so an option can Wheelchairs and walk and Walkers well there is a sidewalk there this would just abut the sidewalk on either side again this is just an option to clean up the appearance and also provide additional walking space other than rded sand and grass how many additional feet on each side would this have uh we were looking at doing I believe it was four on each side wow so we're trying to get or a little less you want to have at least like a 10- foot sidewalk absolutely kind of like you install a trail you want flow both ways if you can it's well needed I think because crowds are big and it's not going to get smaller I mean we're doing more and more tournaments out there and things like that and obviously that was the goal as well for that grant money is to keep bringing more out there again that's not not saying this they're not in the same but it's to bring more people out there right it's an amenity it's a aesthetic upgrade and it's also a traffic function upgade so agreed so we keeping this at the 100 okay so we keeping it at the 100,000 100,000 okay and then the the new computer workstations was that for staff or what was what's that for yes I believe so that was for some new staff we can certainly work with that reduction um and and make it work okay without any problems okay thank you coming up okay so I think we talked about the new community event and I don't think anyone had any objection to that increasing by 6,000 and did we talk about the award ceremony for reimage Community with Orange County Public Schools commissioner Nesta we didn't it's something that we you know that we partner with Orange County Public Schools often um this may go into uh commissioner Anderson's um Grant proposal yeah I think that may kind of encom roll into that so we can remove this and incorporate it into that is what you suggest okay so the next one and and Ry I hope you're still behind me this is related to the pool deck um upgrades from the 200 down to 75 and I think he just wanted to start the design only so he was reducing it by 125,000 yes so this reduction was to uh look at just the design process in this next fiscal year of uh building a new pool and Associated structures at Camp weah as the pool that's out there is continually aging and leaking and requires a lot of Maintenance so this was to get a a plan started uh and work through over the next fiscal year to then have a better engineered estimate on what a pool cost would look like I mean I guess the the real question comes in are we willing to do we want to do we have an appetite for in improving a pool at Camp weall putting additional funds into Camp wewalk I mean it's going to be a three4 of a million if not a million dollar pool correct so that is the the direction we would be looking for is is there is there an appetite to explore a new facility at camp wewa or continue moving forward with what we have until that becomes untenable yeah I I would say look we've already we we SN a lot of money to that annually already and I think a pool is a little bit Superfluous for where we're at right now but I'd like if anybody else has anything how much income are we generating from C weah annually we don't generate income from Parks typically do not generate income they do not they oh they don't no it's a it's a public um they're not out in space or anything the space yeah we do generate we generate Revenue yes Rue I mean sorry you said income I go because I know that's is but we do have Revenue coming in to offset some of the cost you you know how much it is oh we to like 26% I can get you get you some of that information because we've gotten those reports before we're we're above the average as far as municipalities yeah tip the and we'd have to get the numbers uh and and we can send that to you um it is generating Revenue okay uh your national average is about 26 to 28% cost recovery in a park and recreation environment and we're definitely in that maybe a little bit above but we'd have to do that calculation for you substantial continued capex on that Park every single year there's something new that are sizable correct uh we've had some we've had some good capex investment in that Park yes right and I I mean in adding a pool to that now too I there's not a lot of recovery here yeah it goes back to what the vision of the board is for that property the pool is a highlight of the property for the programming and for the Retreats um so again this would be uh to help start design a plan for a replacement that could if we if the board does not want to fund that immediately we still have an idea of what that could look like uh to to pool in for a future year um the pool is an asset a very valuable asset of that property will we generate more revenue for upgrading the pool will we have more we could have some more opportunity for expanded it's not really a recreation pool there's no zero depth entry it's a five foot maximum or the five foot's as shallow as it gets so it's it's not a traditional wck pool it's for lap swimming and it's a camp pool so you do camp activities we do we have a rock wall in a pop high school and Wabo contribute for the use of pool no it's part of the uh use agreement we have with ement yeah okay so like we use their their gyms in the summer that's so the deal we've got for the summer camp next year is that they give us access to the two gyms and it's a good exchange yeah yeah yeah but I I I would be in favor of the new pool I I I think that we need a pool and when we look at child drownings kid drownings and we don't have a pool in a prop didn't we partner with a program that the British Prett we got that one we also got live F Bri which is a is one of our police officers which I know our staff I know our staff and fire department staff and police department are working on the next version of that program yeah coming up soon so um if you like I mean again this was uh reduced down to funding for a design process if you would like we can tighten that scope up and and start with $50,000 on design or you know if we're looking to to pinch some pinch some savings there we can go with a smaller start on that process to to start it and then go from there if you'd like I mean what if we not just say no but just push this till next year we've spent a lot of money on that Park a substantial amount of money and there's no set plan or um scope of our goals for that park at all we we've never defined that I think that's why it's losing half a million dollars a year so costing half a million dollars a year after already spending $8 million on it five million to abide and another couple million on required Improvement so it has a pool it does function yes I'm sure it needs repairs like every pool um we that Park there's not a set plan for that and that's clear so I I spending $75,000 on that how many how many kids do we have there this summer uh we hosted I think it was like 110 each week for Day Camp um we do have Retreats we it's we have activity throughout the year um if again it's pleasure of the board if you'd like to push it a year the pool is functioning it's just aging and there's a lot of repairs needed if we want to make the comparison let's look at the community center it's it's no it's hemorrhaging money as well I mean how much money is that lose well we spent 100,000 on air conditioners we spent 100,000 on AV we spent that's not losing M that's capex there's a difference putting a new pool in but and we've spent oh what else have we we got new floors new lights um but I mean it's it's and the operating costs are you know well and and and in in the defense of why we spend that kind of money we just took over the AOA Community Center um for years it we were not we were just maintaining it clean but we were not investing in it because it was being operated by a nonprofit um as of August 1 we just took over the apka community center so now we have full control of it so the investment that we make on it um it it will it is a a center that does get rented often and uh we have a lot of events at the at the a popular Community Center so I I won't compare it to Camp we watch because it serves to two different venues two completely different venues we invested um a lot of funds into renovating Frank Carlton and it's it's always busy almost for all the seniors all the time so I won't compare camp we want to a because we just took it home we've been peace doing little things to kind of upgrade it but now that we have full control of it um I think you will see a string of Revenue come through it before it was run for years it was it was being operated by well since it's Inception they it was built with VFW money as well I mean they no it was not no it was they put some money into it they did put money into it but I would like to see new design I would like to see a new pool uh I think by having a new pool is then it's going to be kid friendly that will have that shadow area where it's not starting at five feet for a kid that cannot swim and and it would be a great amenity to that to that camp so what what's the pleasure well if we're gonna I guess let me ask the design plan itself you guys already have a somebody has a thought in mind of what this looks like I don't know what it looks like we haven't seen that so I'd like to see do we can we get a Bare Bones love it absolute pool we could ever have and what those prices are what what's yeah so we just we don't have a a true design in mind what I have are components of a pool that I think would fit at camp wewa out of the use that we try and get out of it so we try and use it for a camp program it's built right now with some Lane lines and a very deep end uh it doesn't have the zero depth entry it doesn't have a shallow end so for the younger kids that's a challenge so a lot of recreation pools have that zero depth entry they have shallow ends for the traditional just swimming just play um it gets utilized for uh lap for swimming teams um uh it can be expanded into lap Lanes in the mornings those type of things um so there's that component as well your competitive swimming your um exercise swimming so those are couple areas that uh we have a pool that's aging that if we going to start over and want to incorporate that into into a nicer pool and Advent Health has expressed some interest but they the pool we have doesn't meet their needs for seniors and it's a challenge again it's a challenge because of the it's it was made for for the YMCA Camp it's got it's an old school traditional Camp pool you got lap blanes and a deep end that's kind of how they were made again a recreation pool is is built a little bit different if we're going to put a pool in Camp weall would be my recommended location because it brings a great asset to the camp programming and the the rental Retreats that come out rather than offsite at a different location do you have an example pool anywhere that you're trying to duplicate um I mean there's uh there's a couple uh the city of Vito has a Aquatic Facility that has like a play structure in it it's got some swimming areas uh really that would be kind of where I'd be looking at something that had some recreational elements for the programming and the Retreats but also some opportunity for exercise swim teams people that just want to do lap planes uh to provide those type of that type of facility as well so I think it's important to identify exactly what it is that we want to see before we actually and that's the design process would start that and then from there but we have to get some direction right with the design process what we want to right we' have to give them we have to give them some of those details what we're looking for and then they would start pulling the information uh similar facilities or similar amenities and that's how that would start and then from there they'd start building some ideas on what that could look like some options uh some locations on the property that would be a better fit possibly for for a pool like that so that's really that to kick off that would be we have start any of that yet other than just internal discussions with my staff and and kind of what we've seen utilized out of the pool and what we could utilize additionally further out of the pool so we kind of what looks I was 75 75 I you know I I I will say this because I I did support our mayor when we purchased that camp we but at the time I thought and I I still support it because I think it's a beautiful park I think it's a great amenity for our city but at that time I always thought that we would have partners with us to kind of help run that camp wew and it seems like we're the only ones managing and operating that that Park and it is costing the taxpayers a lot of U money each year we we keep investing more and more into it um so well we do have a partnership or we have a contract uh partnership for like the swim lessons and and currently out there so we do have some swim lessons that happen out there outside of the summer program um and again we we do have many Retreats that come out rentals that come out on the weekends when we're not in season Camp season and the pool is the attraction for camp we the Retreats want to use the pool so they'll rent the pool we'll provide lifeguards camp that we needed for the campers for the summer swim less um so what if we designated 75,000 to get a design because it's just a design and then that's not even the investment when we say let's renovate the pool yeah that was that's the request that's where we're at right now with the request is to drop it from that initial amount to 75,000 to start a design process and try and get some ideas on what direction is the best direction for a new pool at that facility Okay Okay Okay add that one thank you R okay so that's 75k yes that is taken 200 minus the 125 that's why you see the negative 125,000 so the next item is Main Street of popka commission nesa this was your request to provide $50,000 to Main Street AP pop um can all right I I know I have someone here from Main Street of PKA and the one thing that has been stressed um and I've gotten a few phone calls and of course we've gotten several emails supporting it we support it what's important is the designation of the 501c3 um where are we with that Caitlyn CET to Main Street of poka so the short answer is we don't have it yet the long answer is the IRS is processing applications that came in in December right now of 2023 and we submitted ours in the very first week of January so we're getting very close the IRS updates on the 1 and the 15th of every month uh with where they're at with those applications so we should be seeing it any day now okay that's and that's the only thing is that we've gotten I've gotten plenty of emails and and um I've gotten a lot of support from our community I will have to say that um and I'm certainly in support of it I think it's something that we need um we're work you know we're creating the Fifth Street prominade there so this would be a benefit I just want you to know that that was a a concern by some of the residents it's one of ours too we we definitely we understand that we need it we want it uh we are registered with the state as a nonprofit organization just as it is um and everything all of the donations that have come in so far will be able you know people will still be able to get their tax writeoffs once we have that certificate uh because it goes back to when you filed not when you receive the certificate so as soon as we get the physical copy it'll be dated for I believe it was January 6th when we submitted it um and then everything will kind of fall into place I do anticipate having that designation by October 1st okay uh for some some reason I thought that we set set $50,000 of that Corona virus money aside for Main Street no no no no we we allocated basically on there well I think is important to to to Echo the same thing is that just because we're allocating the funds we're not dispersing it yet until number one we have agreement in place that we all agree to and then two that um that they receive their designation as well so make sure that's clear so we don't see any duplication of efforts between the CRA and in Main Street or or is that no because what's the C done in the last five years I don't see a duplication with CRA I I mean I've been we've been sitting as a board as a CRA and it hasn't it hasn't presented anything comparing to what Main Street has been offering so I I see two different so I just have a question so is $50,000 a one-time contribution or is is it a continued contribution every year my understanding this is a one time at this time time okay and and and I'm GNA say that when I met with them initially uh they set this up and that was one of the question I ask and it was mending they was going to work in in conjunction with the CRA and this is going to be something that they could complement each other so not it's duplic it's not a duplication because I mean we've been sitting as a CRA and I don't feel like we've addressed what Main Street is trying to bring to uh downtown I just feel it's too different but working together is you know uh rebuilding the CRA area with residential foot traffic some retail and Main Street is about um bringing in more businesses and sort of uh events and I just feel it's too different I mean we we took a tour of Delan and saw their Main Street and we sat with their um elected officials and we sat with all the businesses and I mean it's just too different um and that is and they have a c there um so okay so for this also to designate the 50,000 from Main Street so we're keeping the 50,000 in yes correct yes mayor I guess okay try to get the response from everybody it's majority yes okay that's what I just said all right and commissioner Smith I think you were referring to the 25,000 that came out of the Corona virus funding for was it reimagine reim something reag commun reimagine communities if that's if that's the case that's what I recall all right now 10975 we're um eliminating the transportation coordinat position who's going to be doing those efforts then yeah that was wasn't that our senior uh that was Pam's position yes Pam Richmond yes maam so mayor well we're just we're we're looking to hire the community development director we thought we had somebody that that would have fit perfectly and be able to do a lot of those projects and it didn't work out so we're still looking for a CRA I mean excuse me a community development director that hopefully has Transportation experience that could help in that that area so but this is Pam's fulltime position I got it and I think she was doing a fabulous job at what she did I mean she was on the ground and she's made a a lot of advancements in our city things transition done and I mean when I first came on board and asked her about for Lane in okore POA Road I mean she jumped on that and I mean so I think that's a very vital position so do I so we keep it because when she uh exited our city yes you gave if I'm not mistaken that got reallocated to another staff member which was our engineer well it's a little bit of both it's Jean Sanchez taking on some of the responsibility and Richard her some so but jean Sanchez her job or mean her job title is planner plan planner um transportation is completely a different element um I I would like to see a transportation person um okay expert come be hired it's definitely needed for our growing city and and having the infrastructure structure issues we do have U Des desperately needed I agree trans I'm the suppor of the trans as well okay we will leave that in now we're adding this position um this is a person that assists Richard so we we definitely need this um position to be added right because Richard's been doing this on his own he's been the only engineer in the city yeah this is like a an administrator specialist yeah this is an admin that kind of helps him out yeah I think that's he does all the administrative and well he got a little help but this one here we we're gonna make sure to get funded so we can continue that okay that's good all right so and then um as I spoke with you earlier this is that when we were talking about fund 401 we're transferring Richard's position to Community Development as well okay transferring into where general fund right up to Community Development that's where it used to be you his office was up on second floor here and most of his work is you know we're trying to make sure that the people we have are Al ated to their their role in the city government and so I you know was asking with do and Richard hey what what percentage of of his you know position is is Community Development the front end of developments and so we just came up with a 90% number that's kind of how we got that that okay so he'll report to the community development director I don't think it's changing the reporting structure just how it's being paid yeah so you will you be to be in this building and say all will you still remain in Cleveland oh okay no it's is functionality so business need to move money around okay correct we just need to move money around okay this isn't really anything to do with it's just moving money around to make the honestly I think it's a combination of both as I understand okay understand to be honest with you so and then talking about money I looked at some of the revenue and I kind of Tred up some got some additional Revenue um that's about 11 17,8 A5 so I'm factoring that in here as well and the next item is the pension item that we discussed and in the impact on the general fund is the million dollar with instead of factoring this um 6.75 and factoring the seven so we got a savings there of a million dollars but if we go down to the 6.95 it'll be yeah but I gotta get that calculation it'll be a little bit not much yeah I don't when the when the when the pension board votes on it and when they say it's going to be implemented then we'll Factor it is that okay yeah okay and what we're backing out here we did incorporate like an additional because we didn't know how the union negotiations was going to fall out so we did incorporate an additional 5% on that so we're backing that out because we do have adequate funds with the millage increase and the additional 289 ,000 that you wanted to add to bring that to about $2 million factored in this budget to assist with the Union negotiation we have a total Union contract cost at this point I do not have it I had an estimate but I don't have that information in hand when I mean I guess is recent so when do we expect to be able to know what that number is I did talk to Joe Patton our HR director and he said I think he was finalizing something and he's at a conference right now so I think that he and I are probably get together next week sometime thank you okay so at this point leaving that 289 down there it brings it to the 2 million so and another initiative I'm going back up I apologize for the police $1,000 increase the mayor wanted to add that for lieutenant down so that's about 143,000 wait a minut so add lieutenants on down all of the Personnel from the lieutenant level on down we're doing what what are we doing I'm sorry he wanted to give them a $1,000 increase right mayor a one time bonus no no this adds to their base their base yes it adds to their I'm sorry and so this this is in addition to what police had already requested yes to complete their budget and to be competitive well we've got well competitive at that point in time I think there's some the chief is gonna come up excuse me even mayor Commissioners um during my presentation I did tell you and I think I've personally told each one of you that we're GNA be chasing salaries again this year uh the wintergarten police department just opened their contract and are giving their police office a 20% raise that's putting them at $664,000 on a 2184 um work Year we're at 62 um we went from the top when I did my presentation to now fourth in the county already and that's going to continue to um hurt us um when we made it to the top I think I told yall during my presentation we had 90 plus applications um unfortunately some of those a lot of those aren't qualified or we're not going to take uh we processed for last Friday and only four of them have made it so far through the process so we lost 10 right there in one night um I mentioned that we're going to Chas salaries and it's just a matter of when we want to address it but is a is a$ thousand dollar that make or break I guess that which isn't the worst and on October 1st OPD is going to be at 64 we're at 62 so it puts us at 63 so we're still in fourth though we're if we put if we go to 63 yeah we're still going to be close to Fourth but we're at least still in an argument with with them you know I I get that we're not going to you know be above Orange County and OPD we don't have their budgets we don't have uh the resources that they have to be competitive and their recruiting and everything else although I think we're doing really well now we've sworn in quite a few police officers lately we got um it looks like seven now going into the September academy uh we got one graduating from the semal academy on September 11th uh and I think three in the U Valencia Academy now so we're making progress but we're going to start falling behind again Winter Garden is extremely far behind their starting pay right now is at 53 uh so they decided they were going to give all their city employees a 5% raise and the police officers an additional 15% to get them to 64,000 uh which is going to be competitive with OPD Sheriff mean has gone to the county and asked for 133 million to get their salaries up to 65 so this 143,000 is only salary this isn't benefits that are now going to be increased as well y I can't answer that question I don't know where she got the number from yeah we have 114 um based on payroll and it does have a little benefit Factor the same factors we did for the um salary study for pension um Social Security and insurance it's an estimate yeah I mean but it it the fact that it's we're still in fourth though I I understand what you're saying that it it's more we're still in the same position though so that that that argument is still we're still forced so this doesn't move the needle in a huge way and I'm not going to tell you that if you want to go to 64 I'm GNA tell you no understand that I'm just trying to keep us as competitive as we can be and you know OPD and Orange County are both in contract negotiations so I don't know what their contracts are going to look like over the next couple years unfortunately a lot of the Cities okoy opened up their contract last year to give their officers a raise opds opened their contract twice this year once U couple months ago and then October 1st they're opening it again to get them to the 64 with a overall 10% raise and then Winter Gardens open their contract to go to um 64 and give their office there's a 20% raise effective October 1st U to be honest with you I was a little shocked I called their Chief yesterday to confirm that that was correct and he did confirm that that is where they're going to because last time I talked to him he wasn't sure they were getting raises at all and then all of a sudden they're passed us how much did we we were we increased them this year correct already in your budget that you presented no I did not ask for a budget increase I thought that we could make it a little bit longer and I I think during my present presentation if you remember I said I'm probably going to be back up here I thought we were fine at the time because we were number one when I did my budget presentation now we've gone backwards and I think we're going to continue to go backwards once Orange County we're still ahead of Orange County right now but with you know Mina seeking the funds I think he's going to get them because we all have to be competitive and you know he's over 200 uh deputies down opds 50 I think in the police department and somewhere around 100 at the airport um we're going to be 22 down approximately come um October 1st I don't remember where wi or garden was but they were considerably I don't quote me on this but I think it was like 18 but they're only an authorized agency of 89 people U but I think you if you look at it the percentages of vacancies among the agencies is about consistent you know we're all about whatever that percentage is I was going to do it but I forgot to do it I apologize um as far as the number of vacancies we have versus our authorized numbers um so the pool's small you've been to the graduations you see that you know OPD in Orange County with their salaries and and other opportunities that they have there they're graduating 15 20 people in these acmis and we're graduating three uh sometimes one you know I'll be happy next march when we're actually able to swear in seven of the academy um it's a struggle and I I don't know that you know the kids are chasing the no I understand absolutely I thank you I appreciate that Mr Sherman do you know where currently the fire department what's their starting pay yeah and then where do we just finish that Mr Smith you may be able to answer that I don't know if you know that off top your will will yeah Will here I think it was right around 62 wasn't it well our current starting pay right now is at 466 with the ratification of the contract it will bring us up to $50,900 wow but but that's that doesn't include whereas the police they don't get any well they got a few little incentive pays but but like paramedic pay is correct so paramedic pay would be at $4 an hour um what's that annualized to 11,600 yeah so we're still 61,000 now so we still have 61 that's for paramedic EMT if they're field training officer they'll receive reive an additional $750 um for an instructor certifications another $750 and inspector certification $750 and that's the stuff we just agreed to yes sir okay okay thank you and commissioner you asked I thought you were asking about this year meaning fy2 24 for increase for PD because they did get the salary adjustment and additional increase that was October 1st yeah I want to make sure I didn't year we want to be make sure we did have an adjustment starting last October October of 23 in salaries to be competitive and then there was a a slight adjustment during the pay study so if you're talking about this physical year I apologize I misunderstood you and I thought you asking about what I asked for in my budget I did not ask for any salary increases in FY 25 budget okay so I I just want to make sure you clear on that thank you so are we good on this items I think it's important that we definitely remain competitive so I actually am in favor of the um of the Thousand thank you no you can't sit down he's trying to sit down no right let's see all right keep going let's go okay we're going to move on I think we almost there we have one thing the 9,000 for the it's just marketing our own events to make sure they're successful as possible it's I think Rob was good with it yeah if we sign I'm I'm I'm not sold on it I'm not gonna die in that Hill it's just to to make successful our events that we're spending money on so you want to keep it or take it out can we just get Radley could you get us a for the events kind of what we're spending um I think he budgeted $1,200 if I'm not mistaken on Facebook post and get with and then maybe get with Kelly me impression it'd be nice just to have a kind of what it what that so I can have a good tentative budget okay can you say yeah can do you want to keep it in or take it out $9,000 yeah I I would um take it out for now it's $99,000 it's yeah that's fine excuse me can we reduce it I mean about 45 45 or 4,000 5,000 just to again I think increasing our marketing for our events it only makes them better helps vendors that are out there it it's more than just Facebook marketing it it helps promote is every going good with 45 mayor well 45 yeah I mean because we do have a digital I guess you want to call it media um because we do have uh what is it the APCO voice and you can advertise with him I wonder know what that cost would be I mean he he's very um v he's very you can see not necessarily I'm saying more so just our our page you pay for um promoting basically our sponsored City sponsored page would just be promoted and it gets starts get an algorithm things like that it's well beyond my understanding and this is an item there that's in Rob that he was trying to increase okay so we down to 45 thank you so much complet the list we have the items notated so you know and just keep in mind as I go forward I'll explain to you how these may impact our decisions going forward so just to share with you the impact um on the streets budget um with that transfer we increasing that transfer from general fund from the 3450 with an additional 1.7 million with that um millage rate increase totaling 4.9 or5 million and that would allow us to put 500,000 back in the U M maintenance of sidewalks and curb repairs the paving and resurfacing program another 1.2 making that a total around about 1.7 in that and in regards to their pension allocation I just you know added that to the paving and resurfacing program as well okay so those are the changes there any questions in regards to the streets budget okay so now we going to the proposed tenative millage rate at the July 17th meeting we set the rate at 4 83 and we required a unanimous vote and we did get a unanimous vote um before you we have the 1.7 for Union negotiations an additional 1.7 right now for the transfer to the streets fund so the military rate at this point is about 4.68 76 and that will require a unanimous vote okay so we can we can balance the budget with the0 five or do we have to go to the point no we can go with the0 five based on the0 five is how we factored here okay okay and using less out of those excess reserves [Music] okay that everybody good with that so when I come forth I'll bring the 4. 6876 as a tenative millage rate to be advertised that requires a unanimous vote I'm sorry can you repeat that again on on the fourth I will bring forth the 4. 6876 I'll be proposing that as the tenative millage rate and it will require a unanimous vote of approval are we good thank you I think I got some Goods okay so we started at 4.83 99 and we are going no ma'am we set it at 4.83 N9 right but every budget we've talked about has been about the four we started out at the 4.4 376 commissioner Smith recommended that we increase it another 0.25 to add additional funds to the streets budget so that's that brought us to the 4.68 76 other discussions took place and so it was recommended that you go a little higher just in case we need to add some additional expenses we no longer need to add those additional expenses like the forensic audit and all of those other items so we're back down to the 4.68 76 okay okay all right so we're good there I want to give you some highlights I think all of you actually have seen this so this will not take long on the CRA budget it was approved by the CRA um Council um board um in basically it included their carryover estimate of their carryover about 3, 2,828 and um Bobby how went over that in detail with each of you it's basically were projects that did not get started and probably won't get started in this fiscal year that we're going to roll over to the next year which is Park Avenue the city H City Hall Downtown Park neighborhood park at 8th Street and Fifth in the Highland South Highland AET can you come down you still want to well just to kind of talk about the timing on these the big ticket items well I think he's on the next one on the trail well all of them you want to go over all of them okay the ones that he's yeah okay so the downtown poka Trail we're just rolling over that too and rley is going to come and talk down talk about that in the cement downtown popet Trail enhancement of $50,000 that's where the three million is coming from R you're the MVP for good evening again uh the downtown of Papa Trail will start there the uh that was at the last council meeting uh the contract was brought forth for approval so as soon as we get the contract finalized with the uh vendor we will have a kickoff meeting and get that project scheduled for construction uh the pop or the skate park pump track um we are about very close to final design after some final tweaks we had to do on it um um the tentative plan for that is a construction towards the end of this year or the first part of next year um the E and Highland Park uh Public Services has finished the uh piping project or the uh storm water project on that property uh Community Development is working on finalizing the plats of that property into the four individual PL four individual properties and then the park property uh I'll be working with our uh one of our playground contractors to get a playground structure start the process of selecting a playground structure and some playground amenities for that Park and as soon as the plat is finished we can hopefully finalize those plans and get construction uh scheduled for early next year and then City Hall Park uh we have the initial benches and picnic tables ordered those should be arriving hopefully within the next month or so uh and we'll be doing that design uh construction inhouse with our par maintenance team yeah I just wanted to okay all right anything so no that was just any questions right okay all right thank you Miss blanch great job I know we we put you through the ringer hot flashes and all right public comment if I like Speak oh man Albert McKim come on down oh yeah can can I'm sorry chair can we take a two minute break we have to go to the L thank you how many people we have how many people do we have G to speak one two only got three but only three hang in there I can hold it can you hold it we got just three p BL okay we can we can okay is Mr mcken did she just give me this so okay I guess you no we're not going to take a break we're not Tak a break no we're not we're gonna wait yeah we just got three so we'll knock them out there are several things that I want to cover one is that the clubs need to be removed I know that um some of the Commissioners do not have their they pay their clubs privately and um then to uh you can the or development partnership can be reduced because it's not been used effectively in the past uh at $7,500 all the whole city staff and the com uh Commissioners could have been attending and they were not um in fact the uh person who called me from the Orlando development partnership didn't even know that the city of Apopka was a member um and up to 20 people could attend the Citrus Club event and so all the Commissioners could have been attending the Citrus Club event every year and I'm sure Susan would have loved to have gone to that too probably um metr plan is not a membership um it's an organization of operate of for operating costs for the metro plan I don't understand why it's under membership you're a member of it but that's a whole lot of money um the chamber is intrinsically linked to the um uh when Nelson was a f uh falsely closed and reopened the Tiger Bay Club the Tiger Bay Club that was here in a pop in Apopka up until last year was at um Nelson's listed as an address at Nelson's office and then they closed it one day 3 um 8 and then the very next morning was reopened at his friend's location um out on the the east coast and then that's the same man who is now the president of the chamber and that man is president of the new um uh Tiger Bay Club for the same area and they closed that under the pretenses that they didn't have enough members to stay open but they were capable of reopening the next day and we have it in writing with the Man's Signature on it at the state saying that it didn't have enough members to be open um and there our copies and it's at the State under sunbiz.org um we need to look at the periodicals and who has access to them for $1,000 um so let you know Commissioners need to look at those periodicals and who gets to see them um that's a lot of periodicals um the Florida League of cities if it's Insurance like we were told in the last meeting we need to look at is it under the right line item is it supposed to be under Administration or should it be under insurance Insurance in the insurance department um uh and or if it's um training does it go under training or should it be split um the city provides uh what are the memberships and Publications are in one light item or should memberships and Publications be in one light item the way you're doing it or or not I don't know um and then there's line items called uh CPE and uh there's a deduction of 2,000 and then there's an increase of 1690 on page three and I'm just they don't explain anything to the citizen um and then many lines are truncated for the citizens and we had no idea what they were like under special assessments they were truncated and there was um they see special assessments but then we can't read anything um and since it was on a letter sized page if it were on legal Pages we could actually read the content um the return on Facebook uh we have no evidence to know that there's any return on Facebook um we don't see a desktop report um and then um the uh take getting rid of the Landscaping thank thank you Dr o thank you and we need to address the way that you um gaslighted me before the meeting and uh wanted to have the chief hear you say that because it was a lot it was a mistake okay okay thank you no thank you Albert MIM 3603 golden gem Road decisions should be based on facts not speculation tonight I heard a lot lot of factual inaccuracies let's start with some of the things that our public records officer or clerk cannot tell me unfortunately I find it highly disrespectful that members of Staff who would be able to answer the Commissioners have already left direct for public services left he wouldn't have been required to answer some questions that you might have to ask this happens at every public meeting staff have left before we get the opportunity for you to address things on February the 22nd of this year the city had a meeting with St John's water uh with respect to an extension on the contracted golden gem Road first thing you need to know is these are C contracts St John's will not be providing more money without a change of contract and that particular extension was requested because the small pond was going to be used as a reservoir instead of uh tanks which were going to be the pumping station if you look back our M accepted a check for $1.5 million uh for a a tank to go in there will we now have to replace that tank the damage to the liner was not a natural event it was caused because there was erosion under the liner the collapse was because of negligence that occurred in the city that is stated in D's report where he says that water ingressed underneath the liner do you think it's likely that we will get a grant to replace liners which were destroyed through negligence from the city highly unlikely grants will be available so some months ago I did mention that I believe that it was going to cost $10.25 million to get golden gem Road retention ponded back on line I believe tonight do said probably about 8 million that's a best case scenario even if we do not get golden gem on line this city is on the hook for 12 .5 million according to my calculations so that's something you need to look into but here's the fact of the matter tonight everything that diod Buddha said was speculation because you have not conducted yet test Wars on the on the ground of the the tiers one two and three on that pond so you've got no idea what lies under there if we find there's problems there each tier will cost you $1 million per tier to raise with Clay now I'm quite prepared to come in and give you the figures I was asked what it was likely to cost and I did the calculations but not only that I can tell you how long it's going to take to do what we have proved over the last few meetings is that your experts and your people who work for the city aren't giving you correct facts again tonight you discovered when theodat buddhis spoke to you that there were problems at Jason dwell and the problems with you being able to sell reclaimed water fact of the matter is the city should be making money from reclaimed water you're not going to be able to do that Jason dwelling I told you this some time ago that you wouldn't be able to do that you're going to be faced with at least two years before you can make money three years possibly at Jason dwelly it's going to be the same at golden gem Road ask yourself about lust Road lust Road hasn't operated since mayor Nelson came into into operation why because it was neglected Jason dwell should be providing us with 3 million gallons of water per day we're never going to make money to balance the budget when there's neglect and misrepresentation in this city let the let the people speak and let them interrogate your your representatives if you don't let us hold them accountable you're not going to find out the answers because you're not experts okay yall can see my face now okay good evening everyone um I have a few topics but four minutes so first of all I want to say thank you guys for considering lowering from the 40% increase I'm heing 20% uh I'll still vote for 10% but 20 is better because it really free me up um yesterday I had the opportunity to go drive around do citizen Patrol with the police car and greet some citizens wave let them see that we the community do care and we working alongside a Pap so thank you guys because really and truly I I want to do for my community and not have to work too much harder just to cover bills so thank you guys for that also I want to thank um commissioner Anderson for the suggestion of the doing that grant for the last nine years I have been reaching out to the city um some of you Commissioners thank you very much for your help throughout the years including EXC commissioner Becca being my day one um what I will suggest however is in doing this can you guys please have a workshop with the local nonprofit organizations so that way we can give you guys feedback on what works for us instead of you guys having a wonderful program that we may not be able to meet the criteria and may not be able to apply for due to some little obstacle in the way I know most of us with nonprofits reimagine um New Destiny myself we all do work together behind the scenes and bugs ideas of each other and it will be great if you guys can um have a workshop so we can provide feedback before this launch because for example um a lot of what we want to do I know for us at Naomi kids is limited based on funding during the summer I reached out and again it I I don't call names when I'm up here because it's not about who it's about the impact and I did Reach Out to a member of the city for help because I had a grandmother who came to me with four grandkids that recently came to her she had nothing to do with them for the summer no way to fund no funding to pay for us I reached out my email was ignored um we still accepted a family because it's beyond that I explained to my stuff hey I'm going to need some of y'all to put in more volunteer hours so then get paid so we did make it possible but it would have been nice to have such a program available so that way we can do more we have the facility we have the ideas we have but as you guys know Miss blanch just break down and list that I might have to rewatch the video to get some of this sinking but everything costs so free to somebody does not mean it did not cost someone else so Comm Anderson um I I'm I'm really glad to see you come forward with that idea um I can tell you you can count on me and my team even though they're not here I can speak for them on this to support you with this and um we do have parents I know who will stand behind it and this is not just for the sake of Naomi kids but for all the youth and the citizen the elderly in the Community because they are the ones that are being hurt the most in our community thank you thank you and we I know that the um uh Chamber of Commerce is doing a nonprofit um trade show so to bring in all the nonprofit maybe we can we can incorporate commissioner Anderson's so right to be determined that that would be that would be nice um because I know for example the chamber has dropped the ball um this year with because I've been working with Dr Jackson from day one with the the ayw program and with the change with the counsel and since Dr Jackson is no longer part of ayw the program has gone downhill this year for example the chamber had no idea caros had no idea because they have new people caros had new people and Apopka businesses in Apopka was hit hard we didn't get the right um interns we had to go all the way down to Valencia College to interview we went and there were interns from CMI and stuff that don't drive but expected to get a job in a popka so it will be nice um if is there how can we get that information because that's another problem there's a lot of good stuff out there but we never get the information it's like so when and who can I speak to I'll let you know okay well may you do have my email you have my number you have everything all of you do so please keep me in the loop thank you thank you okay I'm Gonna Be Quick um Virginia Street do I have to get my address again no do I yes yes 2119 palmist Drive okay just wanted to first talk about the budget increase um maybe I'm kind of new to this and forgive me if I just don't know etiquette okay but waiting until the end for everybody to give their comments is probably not the best way of getting your feedback because I got I've got questions not questions but a um things I would like to have responded while we were talking about that topic because when you do all that jumping around and then you ask us to come up and give you feedback at the end you don't really it's just a workshop so you got two more bites at the Apple okay so all I'm saying is that it would have been more effective if uh we could have been able to do it while we were on topic okay so for the water increase I am glad that we have gone from that 40% down to that 20 25% I do like it that uh we are keeping uh the uh assistant director position uh in and also the ab bestus removal the water plant stuff and the customer service uh position uh still there um so I do like it that those things were pretty well kept in I also had those concerns about three of those things at least um the general fund um that we were talking about anything that supports the fire department which um I've had them at my house more than five times in the last six years and they have taken me from my home to the hospital several times because of sickness okay anything that they need anything they need They Carried me you know literally through my house to where I had to go so anything they need I I think they they deserve more than uh what we can give them um anything to help the police department I think that we should continue to support our Police Department for our protection and for their protection um I don't like it when I see policemen hop from County to County because they're chasing money you know that you know the motive is not right and you want the you want them there for the right reason so don't give money an excuse for having someone to chase money around especially for a popular we're doing all these things beautify our area to do downtown to draw people in don't we want the best people protecting us while we're doing all of these things what good is it going to do to make these things improved and then we have nobody to protected you know so I think that that's the thing that we should continue to support the police department the fire department anyone that services and protect our community I like the summer camps um my uh I I used Naomi camp this summer and my kid my my children uh learned so much not just from a camp to go somewhere and have fun but they learned some character things and those character things you can't always pick up at the YMCA you know it it if you saw the interaction that happens uh with the leaders and the children there um you know my kids were upset when it became Saturday and they couldn't go you know so so um that kind of thing going on um Camp wewa I didn't even know they had a pool there and I live I drive by it every day um I know that um there are pools in the neighborhood uh are there there are pools that I don't I don't know if I I don't know the pool that's over there like Brantley I don't know what all these other pools are but I do think it would be good to have some type of research to have something done with that so I do like that thank you ma'am we appreciate it okay thank you very much thank you very much I you need four minutes is up ma'am yes okay Rogers back at 7 West Main Street I want to First say thank you guys for um reducing that 40% rate on that uh Bill C when I saw that coming in Ma I'm like this looks a little crazy but U thanks for taking consideration the reduce that cost I just thought that was a little much um but it was some things that were said in tonight's meeting I just want maybe get clarification on um the first one being the um Bay Ridge um Cemetery maintenance now if I hear you guys correctly the cemetery is not located in the city of apka we're using City funds to maintain this this location so how is that done because I know particularly my discussion with Orange County um with Memorial Gardens which is in South apaka they could not use any grant money from the county to even go on that property because it was considered private so how is it that the city of parka can go and maintain that site one is not in the city of parka to me is concerning I understand it may be some history with it but ultimately that should be a discussion with the county if that's in the county so that's just my particular take on it but you guys elect official you do what you you may but I just think that's not um proper format for that um there was discussions about um sidewalks on pun can there again I think that was a discussion I brought maybe two or three years ago um safe routes of schools there should be safe routes with s walk around all the schools within two mile radius if I was if I was correct um so if we're going to look at this one specific area Let's do an assessment of all areas so that's just not pick and choose let's say if we're going to do it do it fairly um across the city so if this is something that really want a concern to the to you guys elect officials let's look at it from a comprehensive standpoint um just not just isolated um issues um it was a good idea I think you know to talk about the swimming pool and all those particulars But there again I guess I just get heartburn to talk about designing 75,200 designning pool let's first start off what do you want the pool to look like okay we can go to Altimont they have a facility over there you have Lake Brentley you have numerous places call them up how much did it cost let's start there it's designing something where you don't know what you want to spend that's a little backwards if you ask me but you guys like to fish you do what you want to do um and then the thing I know the lady left but there again I'm still want to get clarification and I don't want to come off negative about the Main Street program but there again I still from the outside looking in I'm trying to figure out really is it going to be a truly a tool used to promote growth downtown because every time you guys talk about it y'all talk about Fifth Street and to me that's bothersome because basically saying we're going to allocate money to a nonprofit but you're always talking about Fifth Street where if you realistically look at it we paid $500,000 for a parking lot made improvements to it a lot of businesses have gotten money from the CRA for new AC units whatever things they did so there again are we going to put to truly what is the impact of what we're looking to do then in the same frame you guys said well we have a CRA we have did anything with it since I've been here well there again so where's accountability from the from the council level to see what it is that you want to see because we haven't had anything other than they've done a great job bringing a business in but outside of that there has not been anything else built new in quite some time so if you're looking to do that we need to get on the ball actually having development done to bring it in to increase the value to increase the foot traffic so how does it work in a part so I don't see how there again it's 50 Grand it is what it is how is going to change that I think thanks thank you all right anybody else wait did we I just want to know did we was the public comments actually streamed or was it cut off again I don't know it was I don't think it was cut off I'm not yeah okay think it was cut off all right with that thank you everybody for coming out e