##VIDEO ID:JnTUwbk6jXo## e e call the September 4th city council meeting order commissioner Smith you give us the prayer pledge and fact of the day please sir amen Alle to the flag of the United States of America and to the for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all day on September 3rd 1777 the American flag is said to have flown in battle for the first time during a revolutionary warish at the Battle of iron H Delaware patri General William Maxwell ordered the star and the stri B raised as a attachment of this and Cal met in advanc guard of British and Harrison troops the Patriots are defeated for retreat to General George Washington's M for near Brandon wi Creek in PV all right let me read the decorum statement welcome the public meeting of the city council of the city of Apopka please turn off all cell phones or set them to Sil the city council permits and encourages input and comments by members of the public on all matters that may come before the council for action if you wish to address the council this afternoon evening please make sure you have filled out a card with your contact information and presented it to the clerk when called upon please proceed to the podium and speak clearly into the microphone stating your name address of record organization if any and direct your comments to the city council not to individual Commissioners staff or members of the public the council and the city's staff encourage constructive criticism however personal tax are prohibited please observe general rules of Corum and civility speakers and members of the audience shall refrain from rude or derogatory remarks shouting disruptions Reflections as to Integrity slander abusive comments profanity vulgarities and statements as to personality any violation of these Provisions may result in the issuance of verbal warnings including warning of for trespass a violation persists of after such warnings violators may be removed from council chambers okay with that um we've got a set of minutes look for a motion to approve some got a motion by commissioner Velasquez second second by commissioner Smith all those in favor I all opposed motion carries unanimously we've got uh five consent agenda items or anything um either Cliff or Jacob any changes no changes we have five consent agenda items any anybody need to pull those items have not looked for motion to approve can you just um for number five I I mean I know it was explained to us uh individually during the agenda review if um I I guess uh Chief mckenley if he wants to kind of just touch on that for the Public's uh information for on number five okay there's there's more than just yeah I know but just one Universal Protection Services okay sure just for that Chief real quick mayor Commissioners good afternoon Mike McKinley chief of police um that contract is just to provide security for City Hall remove the police officer back in to patrol and just remove the um remove the officer and provide for private security it's a cost savings to the city and I'll still provide secure facility for our employees okay anything else right okay look for a motion to approve the consent agend items so move got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Anderson all those in favor I I all oppose motion carries n Wild Oak plat Bobby good afternoon Bobby H planning manager applicants requesting approval of app plat for Wild Oak property is located west of State Road 429 South of Kelly Park Road and East of golden Jim Road it's approximately 152 acres in size and that purpose of the plat is to establish storm water tracks and create nine Lots the plat is consistent with the approved major development plan construction site plan in with Florida statute 177 which is plating development Review Committee recommends approval recommended motion this afternoon also the Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval recommended motion is approval if you have any questions myself and applicant or here any questions for Bobby anybody from the public wish to speak on this one if not we'll close the public hearing look for a motion to approve the plat for Wild Oaks so got a motion by commissioner Nesta second second by commissioner Smith all those in favor all oppos motion carries unanimous next up Crossroads at Kelly Park 1B plat this is plat for Crossroads at Kelly Park phase 1B propert is located south of onich Road and East of Round Lake Road it's approximately 29 acres in size purposes of the plat is to create 140 40 residential lots as well as alleys and park tracks and easements as you can see here plats consistent with the major development plan construction site plan with Florida statute 177 which is plotting development Review Committee recommends approval Planning Commission unanimously recommend approval recommend a motion this afternoon as approval myself and applicant are here for questions any questions for Bobby uh just one is it 140 or 175 uh 140 does it say 175 and the say 175 okay yeah it would be uh the 175 then apologize for the tyo okay all right anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter not oppos public hearing sure oh come on down I would just like to ask how much name and address for record please oh sorry na James a poka sunrust drive down the street okay I would like to know how much of these new developments are going to include conservation areas because it seems like it's just straight up build build build concrete concrete concrete so if there's no conservation areas the city residents and the city or the people that live in those neighborhoods all they're going to do is complain about the Bears the Bears the raccoons the P coyotes or okay well if you have no conservation areas you're either going to have wild animals in your neighborhood and you're probably going to have flooding issues because there's no natural environment left so where I live I'm lucky because I'm up a hill but the people across the street they have to watch their house because it could be flooded and I'm in an old neighborhood so these new developments where they flatten everything and it's nothing but concrete and pavement that's my concern is that we're destroying the natural areas and we're not putting back native plants or anything like that native trees nothing all right I I'll have them answer anybody else want to speak this Richard why don't you come down and talk about the the drainage and then Bobby if you'll talk about the percentage for open space that is required good afternoon mayor Commissioners Richard or city engineer uh so the develop all the developers uh that develop in the city needs to get need to get a permit from the state from the St John's River Water Management District that would show that there's not more uh drainage leaving their site in the uh depending on where you are either a 25 year 24hour storm or 100y year 24-hour storm and they're required to treat that water so it soaks into the ground and provides water quality treatment for all the new developments so the city issues a a permit uh after we check that and so does the St John's River Water Management District thank you then Bobby if you'll answer the open space part of that question so this property is in the Cali Park form based code area it's in the neighborhood transition this is part of an overall development of the um Crossroads at Kelly Park which has been approved for some time now this is a plat so this is just the recording of the Lots so they can sell the lots and start building of the the uh houses out there minimum of 20% open space is required in this transition zone so this plat meets this this is like I said just a recordation of lots okay that answer your questions ma'am more than 20% yes ma'am believe the applicant is here if you want to kind of get up and address the open space and the construction of your project hi my name is Jenna be labuta with pison Bennett 2602 East Livingston Street I'm the applicant for the project not the developer um this particular plot what you're seeing is a phase of project um all of the open space tracks conservation tracks Park tracks amenity tracks are part of a different plot um this is just to subdivide the lot so you won't see it specifically on this plot that they're approving today but if you looked at the overall um uh the overall project plans uh for Crossroads at Kelly Park you would be able to see all of those open space areas ma'am did did you give uh Susan your email address did you give yeah if you'll give it to her I'll make sure that the developer gets the information does us and I'll get that to you okay thank you thank you anybody else okay if not we'll close the public hearing look for motion to approve the plat for the crossroads at Kelly Park phase 1B so Mo got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Anderson all those in favor I all opposed motion carries nerson next up Bronson Peak phase 2A this is a plat for Bronson PE Bronson Peak phase 2A this is part of the overall Ridge Development uh located off of Boy Scout Road and West of gallway Boulevard this portion of the property is approximately 14 acres in size and it's plating to create 88 Lots as well as Rides Away tracks plat is consistent with the approved major development plan construction site plan with Florida statute 177 which is platting development Review Committee recommends approval Planning Commission unanimously recommends approval the recommended motion as approval of the plat myself and applicant are here for questions any questions for Bobby anybody from the public wish to speak on this one not will close the public hearing with for a motion to approve the plat for Bronson Pak phase 2A so move got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Vasquez all those in favor I I'll oppos motion carries unanimously next up Floridian Town Center multif family phase one applicant has submitted a major development plan for consideration of development consisting of 312 multif family units in Ted buildings that are three stories each this is in Phase One of Floridian Town Center plan development I believe um the board is familiar with the location of the property that this is a 14. acre 14.7 acre portion of the development it's located by the state roow 429 Entrance Ramp access of this site will be via Floridian Town Center Boulevard and kioa Avenue consistent with the PD master plan a total of 493 parking spaces are provided on site 15 of those are accessible 30 are electric car parking charging stations consistent with PD master plan storm water retention is provided in the center of the site these are architectural elevations provided by the applicant to show what the buildings will look like development Review Committee recommends approval Planning Commission unanimously recommends approval recommend a motion is approval myself and applicant here for questions all right any questions for Bobby anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter not oppose the public hearing went for a motion to approve the major development plan for the Floridian Town Center multif family phase one okay so got a motion by commissioner Velasquez second second by commissioner Smith all those in favor all oppos motion carries an ad next up ordinance number 3052 ordinance number 3052 an ordinance of the city of apopa Florida amending the future land use element of the Apopka comprehensive plan of the city of Apopka changing the future land use designation from County Rural to City Residential in very low Suburban for property located at 1400 West Kelly Park Road owned by Michael a gentles and Desmond W Street comprising 5.06 Acres more or less providing for severability complex and an effective day no check no changes okay anybody from public wish to speak on this matter not we'll close a public hearing look for motion to adopt ordinance number 3052 so move got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Velasquez all those in favor I all oppos motion carries nously ordinance number 353 ordinance number 353 an ordinance of the city of aapka changing the zoning from T transitional to rsf 1A residential single family estate district for certain real property generally located at400 West Cy Park Road owned by Michael a gentles Desmond W Street comprising of 5.06 Acres more or less providing for separability conflict and an effective date any changes anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter not we close the public hearing L for motion to approve adopt ordinance number 3053 so move got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Anderson all those in favor I all oppos motion carries unanimously next up board sum 358 ordinance number 358 an ordinance of the city of Apopka Florida amending the future land use element of the apapa comprehensive plan of the city of aapka changing the future land use designation from County low medium to Industrial for certain real property owned by SFL Partners LLC and jfj real estate Investments LLC located north of 4th Street East of Bradshaw Road and West of Hawthorne Avenue comprising one .97 Acres more or less providing for separability conflicts and an effective date any changes anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter not we'll close the public hearing L for a motion to approve ordinance number 358 okay I guess uh yeah so got a motion by commissioner Velasquez second second by commissioner Smith all those in favor I iOS motion carries animous next up ordinance number 359 ordinance number 3059 an ordinance of the city of apapa Florida changing the zoning from County R2 residential district to Il light industrial for certain real property owned by SFL partners and LLC and jfj real estate Investments LLC located north of 4th Street East of Bradshaw Road and West of Hawthorne Avenue comprising 1.97 Acres more or less providing for directions to the city clerk severability conflix and an effective dat no changes okay anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter not we'll close the public hearing look for a motion to adopt ordinance number 359 so move got a motion by commissioner Smith um second by commissioner Velasquez all those in favor I all oppos motion carries unanimous next up ordinance number 364 ordinance number 364 an ordinance of the city of Apopka Florida amending the future land use element of the apka comprehensive plan of the city of Apopka changing the future land use designation from residential medium and Commercial to institutional public for properties located at 996 South Orange BL bom Trail and 1,000 South Orange Blossom Trail owned by Trinity Baptist Church of Apopka Inc comprising 6.99 Acres more or less providing for conflicts and an effective date okay no changes okay anybody from public wish to speak on this matter not we'll close the public hearing with for motion to adopt ordinance number 3064 so move got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Anderson all the those in favor I all oppose motion carries n next up ordinance number 365 ordinance number 365 an ordinance of the city of apapa Florida changing the zoning from CC Community commercial and rsf 1B residential single family large lot 20 office for certain ra property generally located at 996 South Orange Blossom Trail and 1,000 South Orange Blossom Trail owned by Trinity Baptist Church of or of apapa Inc comprising of 6.99 Acres more or less providing for separability conflicts and an effective date any change okay anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter I oppose the public hearing L for motion to adopt ordinance number 365 so Mo got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Anderson all those in favor all I I all opposed motion carries announ next up ordinance number 3071 ordinance number 371 an ordinance of the city of apapa Florida to extend its Territorial and Municipal limits to Annex pursuant to Florida statute 17144 the hair and after described land situated and being in Orange County Florida owned by Orchid Estates community Home Owners Association Mega gng LLC Jacob Snavely 4 4 625 Chandler Road LLC Matthew and Deborah Shaw Daphne Martin generally located south of West Kelly Park Road and West of Jason dwelly Parkway comprising of 28.5 4 Acres more or less providing for directions to the city clerk severability conflicts and an effective date any changes okay anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter not we'll close the public for motion to approve ordinance number 371 some got a motion by commissioner Velasquez second second by commissioner Smith all those in favor I all oppos motion carries Inon next up resolution 20 24-18 resolution 202 24-18 a resolution of the city council of the city of republ establishing a schedule of fees to provide fun funding for a storm water utility program adopting the non-ad glorm assessment role and pro providing for an effective date good afternoon Richard ER the city engineer uh this is our annual uh non-ad valorum storm water assessment uh it's in accordance with the study that Council approved last year the storm water utility rate study this is just the the next year in the cycle um we did advertise the uh the meeting there was a scrier error on the on the first two advertisements on the top of the sheet it it said $6 it should have been 65 the calculation on the bottom of the sheet was correct on all of the advertisements and so the recommended motion today is to uh establish the non- anorm assessment rate based on the study and hold over for second reading on September 18th okay any questions for Richard on this one did does though the errors that are within this hearing or this notice does that invalidate this at all or does it need to be re noticed in any capacity to update and reflect correctly okay thank you okay anybody from the public wish to speak on this resolution okay not look for a motion to approve resolution 202 24-18 so move got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Anderson all those in favor I all oppos motion carries un let's hope that's it can we jump down to resolution 202 24-22 waiting on Josh to get here blanch can you yes ma'am if you don't mind this is resolution 202 24-22 resolution 2024 d22 a resolution of the city council of the city of apapa Florida amending the budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1st 2023 and ending September 30th 2024 providing for a budget amendment thank you good afternoon mayor Commissioners Blan Sherman Finance director um this is budget amendment number nine we only have two items the total amount is 1,574 3 62 the first item includes the fire and police retirement plans these are contributions from the state that we get and we have to remit those immediately to empow to put into the pension plan for poll no for fire it was 462 627 and for police is $811 735 and this is a budget amendment to show the revenue coming in and out the next item is 150,000 we're increasing the budget for the Northwest Recreation Complex inclusive playground project um we discussed this back in 2023 that we would pull funds from the impact fee fund this is Recreation impact fee to support that project the project is now ready to go and so we're making that Amendment that's it okay any questions for blanch anybody from the public wish to speak on this one not we close the public hearing look for MO to approve resolution 2024 d22 so move I got a motion by commissioner Smith second second by commissioner Velasquez all those in favor I I'll oppos motion carries So Okay resolution 202 24-23 resolution 202 24-23 a resolution of the city council of the city of repopa Florida establishing fiscal year 202 rate schedules pertaining to the city of apapa water use charges and deposits Wastewater use charges and deposits distributed wastewater treatment surface system uses charges and deposits and reclaim water rates and providing for an effective dat thank you Susan in accordance with city ordinance 2475 the city council established the rates for water Wastewater reclaimed Services um currently the rates we originally proposed inreased the rates about 40% 40% and 15% with um reclaim um we did have a workshop and we reduced that and we came to 23.75 so that's the proposed rate increase for now and that's what's reflected in the tentative budget that we'll be talking about this evening okay any questions for Sherman so um I did receive a phone call and um what what they were asking with the increase of the water um rates what did my understanding is that some of the meters in the city a third of the meters are not functioning is that correct we do have some problems with a lot of the meters in the city do we have anybody from the water department here from utility I think so well I mean Richard unless Richard wants to answer and then um um and an update on the back flows where are we with that Richard art Public Services we do have a lot of meters uh that are are not functioning right now we're working on that it's a systematic program uh it's something we hadn't worked on for many years and we're trying to get ahead of same thing with the backflow preventers we we are making progress I don't have the exact numbers on the spot today to give you was that removed from the budget to keep the maintenance for the um for the water meters is there a budget a line item for that budget yes it is and we don't have a number of how many meters are not are not functioning I mean uh probably I can't exactly say they have um they're not functioning for various reasons but um maybe 6,000 so we're also but one of the things we are we are getting estimated reads not that we're not getting any money they not the revenue but no we are getting Revenue it's just not the question is is a time we're raising the water rates in order to um fund but we are not on my understanding from the citizens the citizens that are concerned is that we're putting the burden on the city taxpayers to raise the water rates but we have over a third that's not functioning and so how are we going to because we are still getting Revenue even though they're not functioning because EXC we are still getting Revenue even though they are not reading from estimated amount we're just getting well reduced Revenue because you worked with a resident that I've helped that yeah that they got a bill for $2700 once they so meter place so so how are we addressing the 6,000 res that are getting an estimated Bill and all of a sudden we're raising the water rates and then um we're 6,000 will get the actual uh I guess Bill that they should have been paying how are we addressing that well as I explained to commissioner Nester with the estimated building when they true it up say they get bills for 10,000 gallons per month and then once they get the meter fixed they start reading they give them 50,000 so once it reads at the 50,000 it charges them at the higher rate what we do is in one-time adjustment to charge them at the lower rate as though they had been paying all Al loone so it's a timing issue we're getting some Revenue we're doing an estimate the system automatically does an estimate like if your August Bill if you had a reading last August but this August you don't have a reading they would use the consumption that you had last August it's a 12mth rolling um estimate process but when you true it up that's when you get the money back over a period of time it's a timing issue do we have a timeline of when those 6,000 will be that's we're doing th this year th next year a th that's Public Service I I I can't answer that question so is anyone here from public services I can't answer that so guess that's a problem I mean that you look at the one reason that I help $2,700 times 6,000 I mean that's most of our shortfall right there so it's some Revenue but it's not to that level no agreed but and then residents are obviously shocked and and dismayed that they are now having to pay this increase because of faulty equipment that we're not maintaining properly well a public service is not here to address that question I mean we're meeting internally we're going to establish a meeting where we meet every month to do what we can to try to address the problem we get someone from public Services because I I don't want to vote on this until I get at least some answer from public services because there is a concern I've gotten yeah again this is not a new problem but okay no but I think too that I assume there's a few residents in here that want to speak about this it would be nice to have there's quite quite a bit that would like to also hear from our Public Works director to be able to answer some of these so they have some sure are you trying to get someone here from public service or yeah yeah there there's quite a few most of the residents are here to discuss this so definitely need some questions answered okay so how are we doing we gonna hold off on this one public comment you want to do public comment now absolutely okay then we'll we can we can then you can come up yeah all right come on down mayor Commissioners um my name is Ian Kimbrell I reside in Magnolia Park Estates I'm on the board of directors of the homeowner Association uh when we got this letter here we were extremely shocked as this I believe last year we were all charged the money to install these devices on our water lines um the letter at the bottom here more importantly says that in order to ensure protection of our freshwater Supply it is necessary for everyone the city included to resour use resources efficiently on the back of this letters blah blah blah I will tell you that uh back August 15th uh I ended up taking video footage because the city came out to purge our water lines on the day before they left the water main open for 24 hours a day for at least three days before shutting it off and they flooded our retention Pond which also increased the mosquito problem in my neighborhood and in this day and age when we know that everything is costing more money due to we all know what inflation and everything else and everybody's money is getting a little tighter to get a letter in the mail that said that you're going to raise our rates 40% is absolutely propos ous and you know obviously you guys are lowered that down to 23.7% but again thousands and thousands of gallons of water flood in my retention Pond nothing was done yesterday we talked about conservation I have another water meter here that is pouring water into my retention Pond I had to call the city on this one yesterday to get them to come out and turn this one off that has been flooded for two days straight so I'm sorry my frustration might be sounding in my voice but to hear the I'm paying more money because you guys want to conserve water yet I have thousands of gallons of water flooding my community and causing a a mosquito problem and a problem for my uh owner's uh Pockets I mean you guys got B better than that I just wanted to come and voice my opinion I normally don't get involved in things like this but being that this is talking about an increase for water conservation and I walk my dogs every morning and I'm watching thousands of gallons of water flood my community like come on I'm sorry but that's I just wanted to voice my opinion I'm sure there's other people here that have something to say so that's all I have to add can you tell me what community that is Magnolia Park Estates and the dates was August 14th 15th and 16th at the fire main was left open for 24 hours a day it was the the fire hydrant yes sir I have the pictures right here with the long blue T cord going to it and it stayed open for at least three days night and day and my my retention Pond as you can see is also flooded I I think the first one that was we we did it on purpose I think there was well no sir you guys do this constantly you come out and Purge our lines and they cut every other one off and forgot this one open the president of the board of directors and myself as the vice president of the board of directors had to call you guys to remind you that you forgot one open for three days straight it should not have been LED open for three days night and day that's entirely too much the other ones were cut off and the equipment was retrieved when the president called about this one whoever he spoke to was dumbfounded and denied it first of all and then they had to have an argument to get him come out here and find out who passed the buck who dropped the ball or whatever but again it's neither here nor there it happened okay okay but to have an increase and have our pockets hurting because you guys don't have right working equipment or whatever the case may be is insane and I just wanted to have my opinion stated AB Leroy Bale 2308 blue medage Court uh I spoke to commissioner Nester about uh the new development that coming in on benion uh R across from l Road right across from uh clear Laker State uh this this group went in and tapped into the main waterline on Blue Meadows Court on my street and it was told to us that it have a meter that once they fill their tanks up this is the way that they tabulate and the city charg them for water but just like the gentleman just spoke these people once they fill up their truck the the um the line is still open water's just flooding out the city is charging people and the reason that I'm standing here now is simply because what I keep harping about this Administration has said several times from this dasis that they the people in South ofka that get water from the city they going to have to step up so they can help us with the bmap do anybody remember that out of these 6,000 people how many people in south of that is affecting to the their elect of Duty of this city and putting more charges on people that you don't want to even Annex into the city no matter how much you move something to the back no matter how much you cut off a feed to keep people from seeing what's going on at the city you can't hide what happened in the dog going to come to the light my name is Donald bam uh 4308 calonia Avenue of poka uh I'm glad to hear the things have been said and I have the same situation as far as uh this increase uh we can't afford it citizens and I'm sure each and one of you are citizens also because we're all in the same boat together we all swimming in a losing battle but to have this type of increase upon us at this such a time as this is ridiculous there's things that I've heard from a couple of the gentlemen already that I had no knowledge of so I am so glad that I can't came here today to hear about the other problems that apaka is having all right so increase for us is out of the question we could barely make it out here now people are struggling people are losing their homes they can't pay the homeowners insurance all these things are affecting us and even more even up in Washington DC the struggles that they're having up there this a affecting everybody in this country and you included now if you got more money than the rest of us you may not feel the pinch but each and every one of us feel that same pinch when we go to the grocery store when we got to look at a a statement saying that the bills are going to increase 40% and I'm like what I've never heard of such a thing whose fault is it we need help we need help and it don't look like you guys are trying to help us I've been paying an estimated bill for at least four to five months and I called today and talk to Public Works and they say well we'll get to it they haven't been able to come out and check the meters to see if they're working or not you know and I'm like I said that don't make any sense but I can understand the backlog not having a enough people to do the work because you see that at the restaurants now hiring now hiring everywhere you go now hiring nobody seem like they want to work but what we do have it's not getting done it's not getting done in a timely man so that's my situation right now and this is I think uh we're g to have another meeting isn't there another meeting at 6 pm I'll be at that one too because I got something to say about that also so thank you for your it's 515 is 5:15 515 now okay Al MIM 3603 golden gem road we have a severe problem with the public works department they won't answer questions and here's a question we just admitted that all that water was dumped because we were purging the lines if we have to purge lines what contaminants were those lines was it reported to the FD why is it then we asked the public works department why they were purging the lines that refused to answer us should I be drinking water if I don't know what's in it should you not be willing to tell me what the contaminant is in those pipes so that I know if I'm used in city water if I go to McDonald's I go tell you the the places where I have coffee what are they using they're using City Water Coca-Cola uses City water to bought things so that when you contaminate our water you contaminate the National Water Supply because we supply products all over all over the states so it's not just a state side issue it's a federal issue when you contaminate our water and you should be prepared to tell us what contaminants was in it was it because you were drilling deeper wells now why are we drilling deeper wells down into the the aquifers is because we're short of water why are we short of water because your infrastructure sucks M don't smile at me you want to cor him in this meeting don't laugh at me okay the facts that I bring here IR relevant if you're ignorant enough not to understand them that's your problem but we have a problem infrastructure and for two years I've been bringing it to you what contaminants were were were we trying to to remove did the F BP were they notified because I've asked them they haven't got back to me yet there's too much happening in this city that nobody wants to be accountable for so we know that when these meters are out to action what can happen we can have leakages all over the place when we have leakages all over the place it's not only the resident who's going to pay for it it's us because you can't Supply the water you're going to increase budgetary charges on us so either the people who aren't using water get charged every body's held accountable except the man that laughed at me there the man who refuses to allow my videos to be played but Hey listen we have a solution to that we started a website called city of Apopka do press and everything that you refuse to allow here I publish included when you stand like that and there's no reason for it okay so let's stop laughing at me if you want to get personal I can get personal as well there's no decorum in this place today I ask for for information so that I can address the meeting and challenge the validity of of what's Happening here today Siri refused to acknowledge that where's the the with the city W answer a question that the legitimately required to answer I'm tired of this mess well I'm in Plymouth they reson it to a pop of apka they reone plym Florida to Apopka Florida can you give us your name and address please ma Lisa likes 3350 Janet Street apka Florida 32712 oh I just got out from work uh retirement trying to get my retirement but uh and I live in my home by myself and I used to be with orange County before they gave it to Apopka and when I was with Orange County I never had a bill over $30 it always was 26 28 and changed never 30 or 31 or whatever but wow coming with you all city of apopa is like $11 worth of War water I use a month but the sewer what is sewage what is that I don't even have a washing and dryer so I don't know what is the sewage what is that the toilet just me but I do flush it after they used but wow it's ridiculous y'all and then I've been struggling all this year and I think uh you all for helping me you know through my struggle of keeping my water on but I got disconnected and they charging me $70 to get it cut back on that's a lot of money I just had to come and say something you know it's ridiculous what I'mma do what I'mma do it's it's terrible when I see my water usage $11 in the it's 26 28 Wow Come on help us me hi good afternoon um my name is tresia Morris tresia Morris I'm nice to see you again mayor Nelson my address is 1710 Fair Haven Court I have not been at these meetings since moving here speak up just so we can get this for the record okay can you hear me better would you like me to repeat everything okay all right let's try it use my yelling voice my name is traccia Morris I reside at 1710 Fair Haven Court I am here today because of this notification that I received I love a popka I can't say everything is terrible there are really wonderful things about Papa and if you have anything to do with the wonderful things that I know a Papa has to offer I say thank you I am here because this is a concern to me when I see the sewer rates are propo are proposed increased by 40% that dear lady said she flushes after every use I'll be honest guys I don't flush after every use because that's so high and I've I've been told that if you don't flush constantly then you could save some water there are times when I'd like to invite people over but I have to think if I invite people over for a gathering that means they're going to flush the sewer more frequently and it means that I am not going to be able to pay my bill or if I do pay the bill then maybe I'm not going to have some food to eat or there's some some essential that I'll have to cut back on so I have to factor all those things right um then that's not the only increase this document States it states that the garbage rates are proposed to increase by 10% and um it says the city will consider the adoption okay and and if that was the only thing that concerns me when I saw this and I'm not I'm just going to address it a little bit that the the tax rates are supposed to increase for us you they said that if your tax rate and tax taxes for this year increase it's going to increase from $3,573 53 to $3,858 16 and I think about the fact I'm like I wish I had a 40% um raise I wish I can H I had raises that could allow me to be able to kind of work this out but I don't um I work for the state of Florida and if you know anything about the State of Florida the They isn't really generous when it comes to um you know paying their workers you know the other benefits are okay but at the end of the day we have to eat you know we have to we want to maintain our homes we want to pay our HOAs on time and we want light and we want to have water and so I'm just asking that you truly reconsider this that raising something to 40% when I don't I think I speak for most people most of us don't get raises that are 40% you know increase in 40% it's alarming it's concerning it's it's depressing and I think of I think of the families in this community um you know a lot of the middle class families might be there and maybe lower income might be there but I think about the fact that they must be looking at this and thinking I I if they were considering having another child they might have to reconsider that because how do you pay how you just can't so I just want you to consider that that's actually affecting people's ability to want to even procreate if they're they're thinking rationally you can't pay all these bills you just can't thank you ma'am so thank you anybody else from public no no no sir you only get one CH okay well I just want to ask about the impact these from that's that'll be the 515 one yes go ahead ladies first Nicki Maguire city of aapka Resident um the math is just not ma um in 2022 minimum wage went in I'm talking the State of Florida $11 an hour that was a 10% increase 2020 23 minimum wage went to $112 that was a 99.09% increase 2024 it only went up by 8.33% to $13 2025 it's expected to go to $14 an hour which is a 7.69% there are a lot of people within the city living on minimum wage I know some people say everything's going up that's the way it is however if everything's going up and you have people income is not going up then you guys are pushing towards homelessness issue and then what will happen then where are these people going to go yes they're going to have one plus in their Corner they wouldn't have any utility bills but is that the way you work hard all your life to end up homeless so I'm pleading with you guys yes things have to go up because yeah life however even though you guys went down from 40% it's still not good enough I spent a lot of time talking with a lot of residents within the city of Apopka if you do the math at $13 an hour and then you have average rent $1,700 these people are already Beyond broke a job has become j o just above broke can you guys please look out for us we elected each one of you up there to do a job to help protect us can you guys please consider that with the increase with everything if you're not increasing at 40% PID your expenses should not you guys speak about budget I attend the budget meetings when I cannot be in person I watch it on YouTube the basis of a budget is to balance it income and expenses but for us now look at it from an employer standpoint you know what we employees going to be forced to do if minimum wage keeps going up but we have to keep employees that means for us to balance our books we have to cut their hours so if if we budget to pay you 200 a week and minimum wage goes up guess what we still going to pay you 200 a week but you're going to be working less so our books are balanced but now your expenses are higher can you make it no you cannot so the same we're asking you guys consider the residents of aapka thank you good good afternoon uh my name is Rob Josephson I'm in oakill reserve uh usually don't come to these things but when I did get this letter it prob you do so I apologize for not wearing a tie but uh I've retired since I last saw you at the mobile and last saw you at IHOP um bottom line is you know I looked at these rate increases and I may be remiss in my thinking because at 40 years old I don't think you know clearly sometimes but I believe that we also had a rate increase within the past year if I'm not mistaken am I correct or incorrect each year yeah and and it seems to keep going up um as it's been you know indicated you know there was a 40% increase which somebody said that it's down to 23 or 32% whatever it may be and 15% and it said the SE is going up by 40% the garbage rates being increased by 10% wasn't even on this letter so I don't know what that amount is uh your differen is for residential is a $363 difference between your existing proposed rate $7.7 difference in residential uh on the sewer rate and $136 difference in reclaim so uh I graduated from FSU so I'm not the best at math but that comes out somewhere around $13 um that may not seem a lot to you but then go ahead and add on your garbage whichever that's going to be so let's say it ends up being 15 where my concern is I look at this in a little different way uh that being that this city has been building and and building and building residential for the past eight years it's not what we bought into 17 years ago mayor Nelson you've been here longer than that so you know what I'm talking about okay and it's not what we bought into I don't know if this city is trying to become the next alamont Springs I mean maybe that's what you're attempting to do uh but I don't think you're keeping up with the infrastructure because I don't see these roads changing I see a lot of single Lane roads each way and I don't know how people are going to be getting around but that's you know that's neither here or there but just food for thought down the road um unless I buy a helicopter uh but in any event where I'm going with this is you've built and you've built and you've built you allow people to come in and say let's build another Community here let's build another Community there so what I'm saying is when you raised the rate last year and you're getting all these homes being built okay and they're paying for the water I'm sure you're not supplying the water for free or at Cost obviously the city is making some money on it so with the revenue you're going to get from the new houses being built isn't there an offset here where you don't need to raise the rate that's that's what I'm looking at granted you're going to have to supply more water but you're also going to get more revenue and your revenue is going to pay the cost of the water but it's also going to provide the city with Revenue so you're getting more Revenue so why are you raising the rate this is where my question is and I'm not going to raise my blood pressure because I don't believe in yelling at people because you don't get any anywhere with that but the bottom line is something is wrong here you're increasing it every year and this place is getting built and built and built I go up 429 to go into into Sanford I'm amazed of what's going on out that way you know so you're not I hate to say it but I don't think you're hurting on Revenue so I'm trying to figure out why you are wanting another rate increase you know it just doesn't seem fair you know the percentages you guys are looking at even if you're talking 23 or 32 and add on your 15 add on your 10 add on your whatever percentages they are so I just figured i' i' lay it out there like I said I don't yell and jump up and down and scream you know doesn't help anybody thank you Sylvester Hall 391 Rolland Hills Lane I want to say uh welcome to the newcomers I have a saying that our nation is in a national crisis because too many good people standing by watching bad things happen and being completely silent about it it's time for us to stand up so welcome for a first time and and don't let this be your last time please but I want to take you back to um a few City Council meetings ago where we talked about Staffing and and we was getting the budget prepared and uh one of my neighbors Mr rles he called he approached each department head and he asked he asked the simple question do you have what you need to do your job effectively and keep the citizen of apoca safe all department head answered yes and I know that's not true from sitting here at the city council meeting the only gentleman that said no and I respect him for that is the city administrator he said no so how can your department heads come up here and say yes I have what I need and your sen administrator just got here and looking at things say no we don't have what we need now for you newcomers this may be a surprise to you what's going on but it's not a surprise to me because we don't have the Staffing we're at the city council meeting every Department department head should be represented right here should be in his room so if you have a question you don't have to ask where is public service can anybody go find him where's perp service that shouldn't that shouldn't uh that shouldn't take place and so when you look at what's going on and you say yeah you don't want to scream yeah because that don't get anything done but what do when you come and you approach this Administration and you say over and over we have a problem here and you get laughed at so then that's when your moral dignity kick in you like I'm a grown man why is this other man laughing at me and so you push him to that point and the information that these that these neighbors are bringing is to help the city it's not to help him it's to help the city and keep the city safe but we sh them out how's that how's that helpful to the community how is it helpful for the city of apoca it shouldn't happen and we keep letting it happen and I just say shame on us for doing that we need to look into Staffing and we need to get Staffing 100% a few City Council meetings ago too the mayor had somebody come in and evaluated his job and all the other staff that we have that result was everybody else was fine only his job needed a salary increase which went up at that time was supposed to been 75 now it's 150 but none of the other Public Service workers get that kind of money they job don't look get looked at and get evaluated and say hey look we need a raise so I'm asking each and every one of you like I always do when I come up here I'm holding you accountable to do your job because the city of a pop residents when they go to sleep at night they want to know that they're safe when they drop their kids off at school they want to know that it's safe and you're right sir these potholes are ridiculous throughout the city they're ridiculous we can find money to do everything else it's just a matter of our priorities what our prior priorities are so please think about the citizen thank you anybody else hello again um naen James sunrush Drive ofka I would like to know what exactly is covered under this increase that's my biggest concern but also especially with the other residents saying that they're watching thousands of gallons of water being flushed into a retention Pond and hearing that there's approximately 6,000 people that have old meters my meter at my house has been replaced twice within I would say the last year if not year and a half so if my meter is being replaced twice why are none of the other meters being replaced but that's my my biggest question is what is covered under that 23 some OD percent increase I mean it may not affect me by you know5 or $10 but for some other people that $5 or $10 increase could mean a meal I'm I'm relatively Lucky in that respect but I don't understand why my meter's been replaced twice and we're asking for a 20% increase with no explanation of what that's going to cover because when I saw 40% I was like oh heck no we need to snip that in the butt so now it's reduced but we still need some kind of explanation that that any increase should cover something thing and say we're doing this the the director needs a new car or you know the the workers need new trucks because what we have is constantly being maintained so it's more beneficial cost-wise to buy new equipment that explanation would be at least somewhat plausible and more you know manageable for people to understand why we're getting such an increase anybody else Tyler bench uh 3603 golden gem Road it's come to light that about $31 million were transferred to a bank owned by one of the council members friends over an 18month period this sum has failed to accure acrew uh $950,000 do with the water are you going to get to the water I'm getting okay thank you um it's just a stark illustration of the finan fincial irresponsibility that's become way too common in the city um the lack of transparency and accountability surrounding These funds is unacceptable and uh that shouldn't and where where is this going with the water I'm sorry it's it's getting there okay thank you um you shouldn't punish the hardworking citizens with an with a rate increased that's all thank you loan versus the city of Riviera Beach Florida states that he doesn't have to talk about the topic at hand he can talk about anything he wants when it comes to and I've sent that to you multiple times and it's been published in the newspaper in the city of Apopka also and on multiple Facebook pages so the city council has had multiple copies of it also so the chair should have read it um and that's a u US Supreme Court ruling in the Roberts in 2018 Roberts Court so I'm stating it again up here because I know he's listening to me even though in his office the other day he says he doesn't listen to the citizens standing up here because they come in all the time repeating the same thing over and over again and so he just doesn't listen to them and that's why he moved it to the end the public comments to the end of the meeting because they say the same thing over and over again and uh what I want to say about the budget is that we have some items at the beginning of the budget in the administrative field and I called about it and there are items that have no descriptions no don't interrupt me this is my four minutes you talk about the water talking about the water no I can talk about anything I want in my four minutes it's the law it's the first amendment and it's in the sunshine manual it's in the sunshine manual for 2024 and I have discussed it with him and um I can have and the other people here can also have the courts explain it to you I have gone to law school I've had law classes want to answer that and no this is my four minutes he doesn't get to talk during my four minutes he doesn't get to talk during my four minutes and you don't get to talk during my four minutes and there's no interruption whatsoever during my four minutes that's the way the and he's not allowed to talk during my four minutes and he knows it and you know it now um I asked Susan to explain and I never got a a question question back and I think it's because somebody's not getting it to her is what is what are the lines that have been Whited out with no description in the administrative section of the budget at the beginning of the budget section for the administration there's no description why don't we have a description at the top and I sent that in an email to all of you address to the mayor what are those items at the top of the budget and we get no time to address you prior to you voting on that and then why did they not have a description in them and why are they not under salaries I think that why aren't they in regular salaries is that the whole City's salaries or just under Administration okay and then why were there no descriptions there so that the citizens knew that they were salaries okay I think that this is wrong it's not public and the citizens can't look at the budget and know what those hundreds of thousands of dollars are for so that that's a glaring glaring mess up um I I just have to say that your mic has been cut off this whole time so whatever's been discussed here I don't think the public that is tuning in has this is a violation of the Sunshine Law again we have numerous violations of the Sunshine Law that have been recorded in this city and um yeah I don't I haven't been had my four minutes I have been totally interrupted and disrespected and the Sunshine Law has been violated here and I hope that part has been recorded because there have been numerous ones oh can I ask before you come up um our attorney was saying something so I want to give him the floor so that he can right there there's two public periods one is for the items that are on the agenda and it should be limited to comment that's relevant to the items on the agenda the other is the public comment period for anything that's not on the agenda such as what was just discussed and that's based on the decision of the board uh at the end of the meeting so on that section can speak about whatever she wants within the rules of the 201616 I think resolution but this is not that period That's later today that is when he was talking and cut off that period that during the discussion periods before the actual public comment public comment is when he was cut off and they said we're talking about this topic and you cannot talk about the other topic and he said I am talking about the other topic and he was cut off I read the case that you sent I also provided to the commission and I've told them what I believe to be the law and that's the situation I still believe it's correct and I said the same thing to you that's the situation you have not been denied the opportunity to speak you'll be given an opportunity to speak again at the end of the meeting just like everybody else that's the way it is thank you missad Miss Olstead Brian you know I have a full earned degree as a doctorate thank you yeah Brian hello my name is frankstein par address 1913 sanderlin Point Loop in apaka I touching on the water rate increase and all of the increases I I fortunately can pay my bills um sometimes it is tight and that is with me working as a health care provider I know many people who work minimum wage jobs can't afford those rate increases they can barely afford what they're paying right now um for the young lady that mentioned that she skips flushing she may be one of those 6,000 whose water meter is broken so even if you skip flushing you're still being charged um and that's unfortunate also wanted to touch on the fact that I'm if for if you're one of those 6,000 you're being charged based on your rates or your usage a year ago a year ago I may have had a a leak in my house so I could be doing everything that I can to decrease my water usage to try to conserve because as Floridians I think I can speak for many we naturally try to conserve you could be doing everything you can to try to conserve and it's mute because they have broken meters now with this increase they didn't even mention when she came the lady came up to speak she didn't even mention that part of that increase was to repair these meters so what's the reason for the increase so you're going to continue to have these broken meters and yet increase people's rates that's not fair it's not fair all around but and also wanted to say this meeting time is not too many people can make it to these meetings um most of us are working 9 to 5 Monday through Friday in order to pay for all of these rate increases even now I have my phone set because I'm late for picking up my children from school these times are not they're not convenient for the average person thank Youk you hi my name is Erica Mand I'm at 1907 sandland Point Loop um I am one of those newcomers I am not one that traditionally comes to those meetings but after seeing today I think that's something that's going to change um like Franny said sorry we're neighbors so Franny um like Frannie said when we received this notice stating 40% yes okay it's been decreased to 23 Point whatever it may be there's still no reasoning there's still no explanation I understand there's broken meters but like she said that wasn't mentioned it would be one thing if you know we're getting improved water quality or something else that goes with it 20% is still too high our water bill with where it is that would be about a $30 increase for us per month it's still too much for us but there needs to be some sense of explanation and a betterment for this type of increase we need to know and understand more and it's just not something that many people can take on and that has to be considered thank you anybody else okay I know that oh I'm sorry um there's a there's a you got Aha and you can also drop that we'll make it work all right my name is Jeff chesik from Montego Circle in Apopka here and and um I've been in a popka for about 40 years and I just want to say I love the emotion and um you know of all and diversity of all my fellow citizens of aapka here um one thing though everybody's saying they don't want a rate increase for their water I don't mind a rate increase if you can tell me why I need a rate increase everybody's sitting in here with this ticket um out there it's a letter from blanch that says in 2024 the city of Apopka completed a study of water the study resulted in proposed rates and charges for the next several years okay is there a city attorney here you're trying to have a public hearing on a study that was done to raise the water rates but your public is supposed to be able to have access to that study so that they can come in here informed and maybe they would all be sitting here saying wow we really do need this water increase I tried doing a records request for I don't know over two weeks and I want to thank Susan because she really tried helping find that study nobody could provide that study I talked to Susan I went through Lydia I talked to blanch um nobody has a study of why you're telling us you want to increase our water rates so I don't think there's any possible way that you can vote on this um without giving another hearing after we are able to have access to the information that's telling you why we need to raise our water rates especially when you take into consideration somebody saying that we have about 6,000 meters that aren't charging appropriately well how do we know how much more money we need to facilitate an effective water system in this city so that's really all I have to say is I really wish I could get a hold of that study I went through the records request process it's not available to me um so please if you can forward that maybe this is a good idea that we actually need to raise our rates yeah and yes we get the rafis report we can't what's that yeah it's called a rafis report I I know blanch you know we can show you the both the 40% and then the 23% she's got yeah that's available um I'm sorry if we didn't get that to you we don't have the complet stud we're still working we're still working on can I say that Wast whatever was that in 2024 the city of apka completed a study of water you don't have under way that was their proposed because we're trying to cut it back yeah because we're trying to cut it back so that's what it is that was their proposed race we do have the emails to support that but we're still trying to like I told Council reamping things trying to cut things back for the future rate and and we're also we have I know I know that jakeob want to weigh in here um one of the other things that we're doing uh raap Talis is doing an impact Fe study so that's for the new the new construction for them to pay uh a much higher rate for um Wastewater you know the hookups Water waste water reclaim the reason why the rate study isn't finished is because uh initially it it asked for more than a 40% increase so we've been working with raell is to try to defer Capital Improvements and so that's the process to try to figure out what those those costs will be and what what years we can reasonably put them out to well I understand that's why it's not finished understand we like October 1st as a date to you know start a new approval but if you're not ready for it um we're not ready for whole year we're we're already operating into our reserves that's that's the main issue yeah as far as the records request I was back when you were a commissioner I was a research and planning coordinator over at Orange County I provided you with all kinds of data and I've never been moved around from phone to phone to phone trying to find somebody who has this study that's supposedly completed based on a letter that was sent out to the public we we could get that to you absolutely well and if we can go back real quick to I'm I'm gonna hit your topics uh one thing can we confirm that was there a mic turned off at one point at all it was there a mic turned off at yes I I turned I turned off yes okay so you attorney Shephard how is this what we're doing here not a form of censorship of our public if you're I don't know what part of it we're talking about if you're talking about the ility for them to speak I didn't see that not happen if you're talking about whether it's recorded or sent out over the airwaves to wherever it's going that's a different matter but again I'm trying to understand what your question is that's it's all of it I I need to know how is that not a form of censorship if we're going to interrupt the public on what the what they're talking about whether it's related or not even if they do get to a point we're still interrupting them first point second point is turning off a mic so that our resident and and those that can't be here at 1:30 okay I I'll start with the last part that's the easy one you're not required to broadcast your meetings whether you do or not it's a decision for you all to make so that's easy to determine that's not a sunshine law issue in terms of what is a sunshine law issue or Sunshine issue or a censorship issue you cannot tailor the message of someone delivering it from the podium if there's an opportunity to present that message which there is later in this meeting on things not on the agenda but it's also perfectly for when you have agenda items such as budget or issues regarding zoning or the comp plan amendments or so forth to have the speakers who want to speak to those items be able to speak to those items during that specific time so in either case so long as you're given an opportunity to speak to the items on the agenda and in this case the items that are not on the agenda which happens later tonight or today uh you're not being censored it'd be a different thing if for example on the topic that's in front of you I got up to speak speak about it and said I don't like and I think it's a terrible idea and you said you can't deliver that message here now you have a different issue but the problem is can't the argument be made that I'm trying to prove the point that infrastructure is not catching up that are all of these other items that we're not doing we're having overdevelopment and at the very end I'm saying we shouldn't be raising water rates but I'm being interrupted while I'm doing that yeah well it's a form of intimidation it's a form of uh trying to silence F first of all I don't want to be given the wrong impression here I I don't up the law I just tell you what it is and so the answer to your question is the interruptions depending on how much they are I think it's for example a gerine question to say when somebody appears to be completely off topic to say is this going to relate back to whatever the topic is in front of me I think that's an appropriate question to talk over someone different story but if the person who is being asked to yield the floor so that a question could be answered that comes from any one of you that person should yield the floor or else I can't answer your question and so that's tricky but I don't get to run the meetings and stop people from talking or make people talk or anything like that so that's the answer so yes if I was speaking to the topic even if I was out in left field but was coming back to it and I saw that happen already today at least once maybe more than once where the question was asked are we going to get to the water part and eventually we got there um it should have only been asked once keeping interrupting again it's a form of of intimidation it's saying that it's a form of censorship uh I feel like that could be argued that can can you agree that that can be argued I can agree that a lawyer would make the argument how about that lawy make a lot of arguments that's fine and then in reference to going back to what we're discussing now I guess why was it so difficult to get the rafis report out even though it's not complete well are we we a closed public hearing then anybody else if not we can do that I know we've got some we also have some staff members we've got uh from Wastewater and from from water um what's that okay so what where's the report how why is this so difficult to obtain and and I multiple people have have referenced the same thing I take way too many notes on but every we discussed in the briefings and all everything else that the study is still underway and that's this is a fiveyear rate recommendation and they recommended the 40% 40% and 15% we're trying to minimize that impact going forward so they're still working on those future years but why don't why can't we provide that report that did show the 44 it's an email if you want we can provide an email but the actual full study but that's what was yeah we can provide the email but he said study so I guess walk me through the process now of and do we have anybody from um P Works no yes got two okay so there's a lot of questions that that came up that I think are are worth obviously answering uh what's the process if we want to uh table this for now sure I I think we should to I didn't finish my question uh what's the process of tabling this so that everybody can get a comfort level on where we're at get the justification understanding the study out that we can't find and what's the timeline that we need to be hitting is we have to get this done by October 1 yep we need yes and we have to I would say we need to and have to if we want a tenative budget so but we don't we could push us out another month there's no fines that are going to happen from this nothing is gonna I mean you don't have to do the increase effective October 1 then we have to see what the impact that is on the budget we have to come back and and change it you know with the cuts we've already cut 2.2 million from this budget in order to get down to the 23.75 I understand so it does have an impact and but I think giving a little more time to have our residents be confident in what we're doing is very important and I'm planning to share some details at the workshop this evening that's in the PowerPoint presentation but we're voting on it now I guess I know it well if you want additional details now people are asking what is it covering it's covers salaries and wages operating expenses and the Capital expenses basically and including the maintenance of the meters and everything like that these are this is the operating fund yeah this is not the impact fee fund right 41 the impact fee fund that's a separate fund those funds are restricted for expansion purposes and to minimize that impact on the citizens we had to compromise on both ends that's why it's at the 23.75 per. we cut 2.2 million out of this budget to get down to that 23.6 75% which I understand I think the residents understand that too I I don't think that's lost in anybody but they want to know where and why and how well we could nobody's happy with increased prices everybody's feeling that that tightness right now in their in their pockets that that is definitely not lost but I think that's important and and again I think it's you guys have the data and I think it's just we need to share it it's transparency was referenced over and over and over here so I think that's huge well this fund as I explained to you in the briefings over the past two years has utilized funds out of Reserve for projects such as Plymouth Regional um system I think it's um something for Golden gy we had that emergency we had the Vic Road emergency and some other major projects that had to happen in order to maintain the infrastructure so as a result of that you had to pull funds from reserves to balance the budget for the last two years now as I explained in the budget workshops you had a deficit right so you had a deficit multi deficit which I totally understand and again that the whole point which I'm so glad there's so many residents here because they're the heartbeat of our community and it's important it's key you add a deficit so you got to increase the rate right but and but I think people like to know too going back those two three years we did see small increases but why wasn't that enough why are we having issues people just want to hear that more and more although you may have already discussed it people are here now and they they they want to know that so I think over the years it was like a 3% 3% 3% last year we did three and six% and that's not adequate those rates would not increase with the cost in the you know the wear and tear on the system and what it cost to maintain the system increase in Staffing inre yeah yeah exactly but this that's what it costs cost is going up you have to maintain the system you have to make certain improvements within it but if it's a repair and a maintenance and maintain that's the operating fund impact fees is for new and expansion those funds are restricted for that purpose they don't support this fund those funds cannot so that's the Pur of the increase understand okay well I think putting that in into a document of some sort making sure that that refis report although UNF finisher it's more so it's finished we're just editing it we're still the police imp police impact fee fire impact fee Recreation impact fee and the water Wastewater um study we had preliminary information we met with them we discussed the rates increase we know we need to cut back or push back some of the projects because it's causing such a significant increase so and that's what we're working on with the new CIP I will be bringing the CIP to the final budget hearing on the 18th of this month but got to be a Revis yes and at that point once we get that revamp that's when we go back to RAF till CIP is a capital Improvement plan Capital Improvement plan go back to RAF Tillis to get them to see what impact that would have on the future RS starting with for water and waste water at the 23.75 which is what they originally recommended was the 4040 but would be 26 rate what would be 27 28 and 29 I think all of this information is going to be so useful to build confidence in our residents to so that they understand nobody's happy about increased rates myself included uh but I think having that data that we can say this is why this is where we it's the maintain basically it's the maintain the system this is the operating fund is basically the maintain the system if you pulling out of reserves so the past two years you have no more understand so okay thank you any other questions second sure come on down so what you were saying is this 40% that everybody here is complaining about would have been more than 50% and you're trying to cut it down and when you're trying to tie in um what do you call it the impact fees which was another thing I requested through the records request and wasn't able to get those either uh that information either is your impact fees don't have to just cover brand new property that's impacting it it has it can cover anything that goes into that brand new property water systems work by making big pipes go into smaller pipes to keep the pressure up and get all the way down to where they need to go so improving our water system even in the existing area so that we can feed the new subdivisions that we just approved up there that also can be part of our impact fee structure so let me just give you an example we just we completed the the Wastewater Plant at on on uh C it's you know $60 million Improvement uh that was um I guess that's three years old what how many how three years old so the the funding for that because we were replacing an old system that was a smaller system with a with a new larger system part of the money part of the payment is coming out of 401 which is operating and some of it's coming out of the 403 which is our impact fee so there are a lot of projects that are both we're we're going to be doing a we have to do based on D and St John's we've got to go to the lower oer which youve you've heard a little bit about so lower araer is now we got to drill a new well so while we're drilling a new well instead of just replacing the one we got let's make it bigger so we can we can pull more water out of the ground so we'll be we'll be doing one here right down on Gren Boer so we've got to replace that it'll be another one where we'll have some 401 m operating money along with the 403 impact fee credits but I'm G I'm goingon give you what's what's ad been brought forward is that we spent $22 million before I got here on projects that are complete absolute waste and we're you ta taxpayers are paying we bought a f we bought a fertilizer plant we've never used we we we add a $1 million Improvement to a plant we'll never use and we spent s million on a on a project out at Lush road that we'll never use so we spent 22 million that came out is coming out of taxpayers you know hides and listen if it were me I'd take credit for I didn't I wasn't here when this happened but I'm have you us everybody's having to pay for these these mistakes that were made prior do we have a lot of you know uh needs going forward absolutely we've got two big lift stations probably between 1777 or probably $5 million to replace those the the one on uh by Fran Carlton is is 50 60 years old we've got pipes we've got a replace that are you know the ASB bestas which we're doing one one segment of that probably another five million the Set uh uh lift station 77 is probably because we got to buy some land uh another one is probably 5 to 10 million all in and some of that will be 401 a lot of will be 401 a lot of it some of it will will be 403 so a lot of the projects we've got going forward will be a mix of 401 operating and then the 403 capital and so it's you know so it makes a look the you know the the the the report is a little you know there's some balancing between what you what you're replacing and what you're adding to the system that makes sense so with the price of housing the way it is and the impact fees that are collected yeah my recommendation would be just take a little more from the iact side so that all these people's water isn't affected by a number that's astronomical I mean we we don't want to be like the other the other towns you know don't like the Wastewater study that was presented that one I was able to get the one that was done in 2022 well we were you know comparing ourselves to several like cities and then all of a sudden they threw um what was it up there the one over on the coast Palm Bay in there so that the bar graph was way up here so that our average looked like it was you know kind of high well F Bay doesn't count they have all different regulations being right there that close to the ocean than we have internally here so um our average should have been down here which would have been almost the same as what they came up with and would have been more realistic and wouldn't look silly to the public that was actually looking at these reports but yeah I understand it's it's very expensive to run a City there's a lot of parts and pieces and um I just if if there's something you can do to make this you know 40% not be 40% I can pay it I don't have any problem with that I mean that number is still low compared you look at some places like Oakland and uh things like that who are astronomical um but we don't need to be one of them we're we're better than that so that's all I have to say about this topic appreciate that okay got one more Virginia Street 2119 Palm V Drive um I have been I guess hanging around for the last month and have watched so last for the newcomers last budget meeting uh you would have seen the line items about why they was needed and what was removed to make it from 40 to 20 something right so I uh encourage you to look at that information because it probably make it a little bit clearer for you um I do agree that we do need to do something about the system uh that we have the infrastructure that we have now I mean we sat here and we looked at almost 500 5 almost 600 new homes that we've going to add to our infrastructure and right now what I've seen from the infrastructure and the things that are happening with the water system I don't know if if we continue to keep bringing in new homes that going to require this service I don't know if we're ready to handle that you know we got to have a strong infrastructure to support where we're going it looks like we're going to continue to expand our bounds and add new homes and new property and new people and you know um the young men that said something about the traffic you know that's something to consider also but the one thing that we need to really think about is the water system are we is our water going to be you know I don't want another Flint situation here you know nobody wants that I want the water to be drinkable right now I don't know anybody that drinks a pop of water nobody there's bottled water being you know I have I have the Culligan man at my house delivering water for me to drink you know I you know we want our Citizens need to feel like that they can drink the water that their health is not going to be at risk for just drinking water taking a shower you know so whatever we can do I know there were things in the line item I felt very encouraged about was um insurance that we have the right um people working and the right resources uh there to handle our water system and also to make sure that the asbest removal that word scares me asbest scares me so whatever improvements we need to do to ensure that we have a clean system drinkable that um people are not fearful of uh drinking or using the water in our area needs to be addressed I think that this this needs to be tabled until oh also I wanted to say that from those things that I've learned so far I think that before we put up here and say we want to do this increase we need to at least have a slide that said this increases for ab b c and d that would go over better and people would be able to receive it you know because I know what they are because I've been close for a minute but people that are just walking in here today they they know yeah you know and it's not their fault but if we could help the public bring them up to speed and say hey we need this we need that we need that I think people would be able to receive it that's all I have to say thank you thank you appreciate it okay all right looks like we just want to want to table this thing um BL I do want to we we need we'll get together here we got to figure out what we're going to do with the tentative budget because I do have to advertise a tentative budget along with the millage rate so we have that's right yeah I I I have [Music] to but we could I mean we could go back we could readdress it well I mean the details are in the staff reports right I know but I mean I think we I want the the public get one more bite at the Apple well then we would have to reschedule what we're doing tonight for w Water waste water yeah it's a part of the tenative budget Jacob you got any we do have an available Wednesday next we do have an available Wednesday next week so we have to come back with everything next week have a special council meeting and then have this another um meeting with the setting the millage rate and the tenative budget what's the pleasure of the board if we're going to do that it it's something I've already stated I feel but it's you know our residents are the hard beat of the city and their public comments really matter and the fact that somebody already referenced that this is a terrible time for us to be meeting for this if we're going to do the special meeting it needs to be at night so that everybody can be here and and and we need to have all the information together then to really make an educated decision it'll be probably about 5:15 I don't know if that we need to do later than that it needs to be like 6 six want to do six it has to be after five so you know that's why the meeting tonight is after five so six o'clock it's fine with me okay if you want to do six o' but we'll have to address this issue well if you want if you want a table we have to bring it back on that date right at 6 o'cl and then do the tenative millage rate right and the and we are we to budget where are we at with the the um notices and all we just want get hung up with that no no it h it can't be that's the thing it cannot be advertised to no earlier than two days no later than five days before that final hearing we know that so oh yeah know it very well so the goal was to do it that Sunday after next week anyway commissioner Smith are you going to be okay with I'm sorry I know you're going to be out of town he's out of town who commissioner Smith and I need a unanimous vote on the millitary well that would still be the four would still be unanimous no I see he's GNA be here well I I was flying back in on Tuesday to be here for the meeting on Tuesday at 3 o'clock flying back out Tuesday night yeah what time is your flight going back out Tuesday night well we can meet Tuesday I don't know why we can you can do you want to do Tuesday night we can do Monday night e either one either Monday or Tuesday will really be but if I mean if I if I have to Cham my flight again will we be able to advertise in time for the M if we do a Monday meeting so how how does next Tuesday look for everybody that yeah could we could we do it after the planning the joint I'm sorry you can we I'm sorry just speak a little louder can we do it after the joint Planning Commission what time is that in Council yeah we won't do it after five we won't do it at 6 yeah the joint Planning Commission Planning Commission does have their meets at 530 they meet at 5:30 yeah the planning commiss meetings at 5:30 oh on that Tuesday so need to make it like 6:15 just to give us and and let me what are you exactly what additional I mean I can do a PowerPoint show what we cut show the same thing I have in the staff report and send him the email pertaining to what was recommended by Raph tillers what additional information are you requesting that has not been shared with you blanch I I can work with you on that I think I have idea what what we need I appreciate it yeah I don't think it's new information I think it's just restating and in a cohesive manner it all in one spot thank you okay so I guess okay so what are we doing well we need to I guess make a motion to table this until next Tuesday at six o'clock is that what next Tuesday at if that me30 I'm sorry or six we have a planning meeting that night yeah it's 5:30 I don't know what day how long pnz meeting 530 we have six items that are adverti for that evening so we probably need about an hour okay so you want to make it 6:30 then next Tuesday okay okay we'll make that yeah so 6:30 so we advertis the meeting are we canceling the budget meeting okay okay okay okay sir sir okay okay so um I I just next Tuesday the 10th the P the Planning and Zoning Board meets with us at 5:30 and I also have the 10th for the comp plan the comprehension plan uh together with the staff and the Council so where where are we going to fit all this in so the workshop for the comprehensive plan that's the joint workshop with the city council and the Planning Commission that's at three o'clock and then okay so that's at three Planning Commission meeting starts at 530 we probably need about an hour to get through that we want to make city council meeting at 6 okay okay so we all good so we we're we're here okay so we're here from 3:00 on correct okay so we'll need to table and that is enough time to notice properly that that you can notice the meeting but going letters going out to the citizens that is a whole different process that's different process huh what's the requirement to send a letter to each one of them you're talking maybe $30,000 that we have to work with our um Outsource agency enco to send those letters out that is a long time process and they probably don't wouldn't even do a special run without advanced notice so how could we do it Tuesday then no no no we can advertise the meeting the notices have already gone out of a rate increase right now it's saying the 40% we have met the requirements of the ordinance with that notice well I I I it's we're rushing this then the notice went out on the 40% which we're not doing and now we're tbling it so it's a date that we're not doing so the we don't have a report either let's just get it right let's just do it right so let's push this out it's not going to happen in October and we'll figure out the rest of it we're rushing it otherwise and things are going to get pushed under the rug I mean we're already pulling money from under the mattress to make this budget balance so so you want yeah the the issue is we do have to present a balanced budget and we have some assumptions here and those assumptions are these rate increases so we have to we have to know what that assumption is in order to have that balanced budget so we can assume this isn't starting till November and figure out something from there balance it how we need to from there one month is not going to make or break this we're already in a deficit so let's just get this right moving forward you can't balance it in November you got to balance it from October 1st it's got to be balanced it's barely balanced now so I know say that again yeah no not we we need yeah I mean the sentiment here for the public that are watching uh is that this is feeling rushed that we're doing it wrong and we've seen this game before to where we have rushed it and got it wrong and had to go back and make amendments and and things like that so it's let's do it right this isn't we're we're over complicating this now let's do it right well the notices went out at August 1 about the 40% increase that was discussed at the workshop with the c every the mayor and Commissioners and we all agreed to send them out at the 40% at a workshop that was when you guys told us that that was the only option and then that Workshop it was 20% Then no we we told you that's what we needed to cover that budget and to cover that deficit that's what we shared with you that's what we needed to cover the deficit we later went back at the mayor's request and we made some additional cuts and we had a workshop to explain those cuts cut you made decisions on items that you want to cut things that you wanted to keep and you asked that see what that percentage increase would be if we keep those items in the budget and that's how we came from the 20% to the 23.75 per. the budget was presented with a 40% increase we got to the workshop with things already taken out without any of our input we had to put things back in and advocate for that so that was again it wasn't changed on my account on any commissioner's account that was changed at 20% without us knowing we added stuff in that we felt was pertinent and Germain to continue our city running properly all that to say yes we sent out the proper reports yes we're legally where we need to be the residents don't feel comfortable so I understand what you're saying I hear it I I understand and I hear it so it's time to if we need to do more budget workshops this tomorrow next mon next week whatever if we take Tuesday Wednesday to do workshops again to figure out how we balance this for one month of not having that additional Revenue income then let's do it so are we gonna make a vote motion how you gonna handle wow I I mean we saw this coming it's been the talk of it's been the talk since the since the residents started receiving the notice and um they have reached out to most of us as Commissioners um really asking what is the 40% and why the 40% and we went over that in detail in the workshops they were advertised so before we can make a motion to make a decision we need to know legally I thought that this budget had to be submitted by on the September 18th date is that correct what would happen after this me after this meeting let's say we which is the normal step and has been taken in the past you would set the rates like the sanitation rate the storm water rate all of those are factored in the budget and they always occur at the 1:30 meeting as well as the Wastewater rate that's factored in the budget the next meeting that we were planning to have this evening at 5:15 then allows us to set the tenative millage rate and the tenative budget and then set the final budget hearing date and then I have to advertise that that tenative millage rate and that tentative budget and the drop dead date for that is we could if we push this out if we do this next week then we could still have the final budget hearing on the 18th if we do it later we can push that out another week but we're pushing it very close at that point there's so many days in between each step that is required to occur the next thing is required to occur so we don't do the final budget and milit rate setting on the 18th then that means we have to have another city council meeting for October 1st right so September 25th would be our option for the finals what you talk for the final but we still need to set a preliminary prior to the final yeah we still need to have the tenative prior to the F just to be clear the only thing that would be advertised is the meeting not notices going to the customers we need to we need to keep it here so but the question was the first budget doesn't have to be the final that there can be edits in between that was the question ma'am yes okay yes it can be edits we have time to make edits even if we set the tenative now we could yes sir we could pass the budget like it is rates the way they are and then between now and the 18th have all the information to bring forward and if we want the rate to be 18% or then we'd have to figure out other cuts to make that exactly within the 401 operating not within the and that's what people need to realize there's there's the the general admin budget which is about $100 million and then there's the the the Enterprise fund budget which is is what depends let's say I'm talking off the top of my head 70 70 million yeah but just in the 401 it's about 30 30 million 30 million 30 million yeah 30 32 million in the report my suggest and y'all you know obviously weigh in my suggestion is we we we going to prove this as it is and then we get and then we can come back on the 18th if you want to adjust it then we can adjust it but if you want adjust it with with can y'all please if you approve it now we send out the tenative budget we can come back you can put that with disclaimers come back and see if we can later reduce that we we're we're we're we've already we've closed down public comment now we're just within the the staff and the and the yeah yeah yeah yeah right so so residents are saying to to make sure the people on on the camera understand or that are watching online is that they feel like we're not having the correct information to vote on this that we're just pushing this through and that neither the residents nor ourselves have the full picture of what we're voting on but it's impacting financially our resents and once again I can say everything was discussed at the workshops is in the staff report but if you know the only item that I hear he's asking for I can give him a copy of an email from raap tillers and Jacob may have additional information and I do have details in my presentation at 5:15 do I need to pull that up now well we can't can't really yeah bring It Forward 5 yeah but I mean I do have those you can do it twice I guess I guess I'll do it twice yeah Rob can you pull up the and maybe it's adequate this is talking about what we discussed in the different I mean we can do this twice I it's not going to change my resident mind I don't think they want time we don't want to be rushed so feel free to do it we're we're order of operation is wrong on this one for me yeah go ahead do you have any questions of George while he's here um yeah or did he leave okay George's um is is can you come up can George come up before you start this sure because one of the questions was um that I got if onethird of the meters are not functioning and we're sending out bills just estimating can you tell me how are we keeping up with the 6,000 how are we going forth with 6,000 meters how are we changing them who's out there um have you identified all these residents already uh they're identified through their uh through a bill it actually shows that it's excuse me it's an estimated bill it's identified as as an estimated bill but how are we now going the city once we identify a homeowner resident that that's an estimated Bill how are we going back to make sure that a new meter or their meter needs to be changed how are we doing that we identify that through work quarters through the Edmond Billing System the work quarters created we go out and update the meter so the issue is um we the supply changed a lot since 2020 sorry the supply of meters and flex Nets everything changed since 2020 so we had a decrease in Supply and this year was the first year that we begin to receive uh meters uh ey pearls uh Flex Nets so the meter itself collects the reading the flex that connects to our base stations that uh we're able to uh get those readings back at uh utility building so now that we got those now we can begin to have a formal replacement program and say that okay we're going to start with the estimated reads and then begin to uh complete uh um upgrades to the older meters that are uh have met their life cycle as well so we're not only doing uh repairs we're doing uh Replacements we're also doing the new installations so every new development that comes in here we're also providing the meters and at as of uh the beginning of this month we had did ,200 new installations so that's uh out of those it's 1100 of potable and reuse the other ones were single installations so we have a massive workload and we're trying to do it with a limited uh manpower to do all of that with the lack of of um materials we were not able to get a Contractor on board because there was nothing for them to install now that we have material next fiscal year we can bring a Contractor on board and they can assist us with installing or upgrading these meters so again is we are tied to whatever the funds allow once the funds deplete then at that point we have to still have uh enough meters in stock to complete the new installations but and then try to manage the repairs as needed so and it sounds like it's a staffing issue then that if we hire more staff we'll be able to knock this out much quicker I mean it's better if you contract it out because once you finish the installations then they're up to date that now you just got to work on the repairs and going forward and we current we don't have this in the budget for a contract correct and we have an approved contract uh in place to bring in the contract contractor on board as October 1st there is funding in there again is as once the funding the funding did can you still hear me so one the funding get depleted then that's where we at right now we have exhausted all our funding as as of to date yes okay so when we have the contract how many meters are assessed and replaced with the contract that we have as many as we wanted to yeah we have funds to replace the meters to purchase the meters to be replaced that's what we do have funds in the budget for now the funds that we were considering in in in with this Outsourcing option that's a that which the power was gone but that was a part that was cut at a to get down about the 420,000 that I had in the budget where we were going to replace some of the base stations for some of the old towers and um add some new base base stations that's the part that got cut out of this when we tuck it from the 40% to the 23.75 I I have funds in there so that we can consider that option and whether we needed to have more staff internally or whether we needed to Outsource it or whether we needed to buy more um base stations at some of the other Towers so just to be full transparent that that the mayor and I had discussed it and we had it in there then came back 120,000 it was 420,000 420 for all of them yes that was like the entire we had a discussion with Corin m is the vendor and census and of what approach to take and I'm not exactly sure what all they were going to do either we would add more base stations or we work with them to do a different type of process whereas out source to them and I don't know if they were going to do the maintenance or what they were proposing provided reports okay so we still have a contract with contract yeah but that was the Outsourcing portion that was facted D so but we when when we went through the process and what I explained to you guys of trying to cut that $2.2 million out to get the rates down to the 23.75 that amount was cut out the 42 so we only left 180,000 just for base stations and that's what reads the meters to replace the two old that about been out there 20 years as I understand it and add a new one and we also adding a new one this fiscal year okay I have one additional question um Mr George thank you for being here the and and I don't know we don't have meters for water coming out so we don't have meters for sewer coming out that's an estimate of the amount of water we use correct we have a small percentage of sub meters but yeah for the all for Mo or majority of the residential is a um uh percentage so it's a calculation based how water you use yes so it's not it's not a perfect okay you've the residents use this as an example of the amount of flushes I did this month was X irrelevant it goes through their whatever you water is gets used then they calculate the percentage and that's how they they calculate their uh sewer bill but there is a cap on the residential on the sewer side yeah on the sewer side so they won't be overcharged over a certain amount okay understood thank you yeah you good with any other questions for George or blanch so when we cut the 420,000 how does that affect the I'm gonna show you in a minute okay you never know what questions may come [Music] up so fund 401 Water waste water reclaim utility operating fund so these are the cuts that we discussed okay we were looking at in order to get the rates down to the 20% about 3.2 million and we were going to freeze the director uh assistant director of public service position we decided not to do that so we kept that in and the customer service specialist we kept that in we agreed to proceed with transferring Richards um to Community Development and of course we made some pension adjustments that show some savings as well commissioner vquez you asked that the water plant infrastructure assessment remained that was 150,000 and commissioner Nester you asked that the aestas waterm replacement project remain that's 500,000 okay some of these other expenses as you see the listed were cut out of the budget 47,000 for pickup truck generator um as listed on here land purchase for uh lift station 77 that went to the 403 funds that's one of those things that can be purchased out of the 403 fund um replacement meter communication 183,000 that is cut sludge huling hauling trailer that was cut 120 Ford Maverick 35,000 and here's the base stations meter uh reading towers 420,000 that I just mentioned the total budget that I had was 600k we cut it back to just 180,000 to replace the two old um base stations base stations and add one more new 85,000 for 4350 400,000 for a vcon truck and 95,000 for the F350 utility bed truck so a lot of vehicles and items were basically cut out of the um budget and some equipment and those are basically some of your Capital things and some of your operating expenses as well okay any questions on that the the Cs any questions I'm trying to go back okay sure come on you need to come down to the mic please sir no you gotta it won't it won't pick up unless you're at the mic I think I'm just wondering what what are we covering the tenative budget numbers for regarding Water and Wastewater and things that next slide okay I mean what why are we covering the numbers though for you to get clarification on if we're gonna vote on that other issue on the increases yeah okay okay yeah no because my my concern is that you know I tried looking up there and those numbers don't concern me it's the study that made you get to those numbers that you you're you're trying to vote on that issue without even having the study yourself as voting members so these numbers anybody can just put a number in there but why did you come to that why do you think we need to improve that because if there was a study done that shows we're deficient here deficient there you know we're short here um that's why we need to increase this so that that's all I'm asking is you know we sh a budget overview but that really isn't relevant to the to the reasons why you're asking me for that anybody could come up you know and and say I need 40% more well I'm not gonna vote for that unless you give me a goodon budget overv the next slide is her budget overview it'll show you based on but it's like for instance the one of the things that we we um we're going to do is the first part of the asbest pipe replacement we had a we had a Federal grant that we were going to that was going to pay for half of it and uh it got pulled federal government took it away from us and so we we didn't have um so but we still decided because we've already done all of the the preliminary design work we're going to go ahead and do that one and how much was that lanch that was like 2.5 million 2.5 million so yeah yeah yeah I know I know um and again the information came from the Consultants we had meetings with the consultant we have documentation for that it just has not been formalized in a final study because it's still underway these were the various recommendations these are the rates that we looked at 10% 15% 20 23.75 and the 40% that's the details of the revenue the details of the expenses salary wages and Fringe 8.5 other operating expenses including some of the things that we just talked about and um capital and the transfer so those are the details there that's what the budget consist of for the 23.75 per at $32.8 million well I think the question too though and I appreciate you showing this is that where are these numbers coming where are you pulling these numbers from I'm not pulling I'm getting these from the the consultant that all of those Revenue I I agree I think we're on the same page I think that's the question from the residents they want to see the equal sign from report equal sign to hear well only thing that the the consultant is going to provide is this top level here where it says fees no I'm talking about as for as the recommended I understand but there's data that they show too of how they got to that number as well oh yeah there's information that shows how they to that number yeah but I don't I can see I can show you the emails that's all I got is the email I said give me a projection Revenue projection based on this the operating expenses here everything else below here came from the budget workshops didn't this gentleman the the ref tell us didn't they come in and do something like a two-hour presentation a few years back a year and a half back a year back yes it was a substantial presentation it was a long presentation a very detailed presentation and they will be coming to do that again once it's finalized but I wasn't here for that but I heard that that I think again is what residents are asking for there's new residents asking for that so that it's that's same information that's all coming from somewhere I think that's what residents are asking I think we're on the same page here it's just they want to see the equal signs that's all they want come on up you gota gotta come to the mic Albert McKim 3603 golden Jam Road the residents are asking questions about how Money's been spent well what I would like to know is we have 6,000 me just now that require to be replaced I would guess that the minimum cost to replace a meter including the purchase and the labor and the infrastructure and the management of doing it must cost at least $300 per meter I've heard several residents saying that they a meters replaced and then replaced again within a space of two years what's the life expectancy of a meter are there warranties on those meters are the city paying twice for a substandard project for a substandard item are they warranted you know if you consider 6,000 meters at $300 a meter that's $1.8 million just to replace meters it doesn't take into account how much money we're losing or likely to lose with the revenue for those meters or how much people are being overcharged the other thing is when we start to replace meters it's not just a case of replacing the meters we have base stations we have Towers to build what's the actual cost that we do we know the actual cost just now of what it's costing to replace these meters and to keep them updated that's something I would like to know I just wanted to seek some clarification name and address again oh sorry yeah erand 1907 sandin Point Loop um I wanted to inquire more details around the service and late charges line item it stays consistent throughout each column until you get to that 40% proposed and some it's drastically reduced and I don't understand where that number figure came from if it's so much of an increase how are you going to have less people late you have more people late so what consultant came up with that and how does that make sense um name and address record please the gentleman the gentleman in the wheelchair please Leroy Bale okay you you you know me and you'll get to know me better at public comment uh the gentleman in the wheelchair was asking the question how did we get to this number if the if the people on the dasis remember the way we got to this number it was a gentleman that came in and he was at the request of the chair about raising different rates that we was behind so many different other cities if you remember that gentleman that commissioner Becka stopped him and said hey man why are we going through all these numbers this that this and that and we was comparing us to different cities and the gentleman back there in the wheelchair just said look how can you compare orangers to Apples when our When Miss lanch every time we ask for something well it's not finished we can get this with this Administration is always something we have corn flakes no milk we got coffee no sugar what we're doing is I guess you'll see it coming up later that we partnering with this city with that City for this that this that and another but here's the problem the problem is we got to have a base to pull all these numbers from and the only base that the study that we have is the only study we have is comparisons to other cities and we are unique from other cities so instead of trying to feel in a void for La I say the lack well D elected Duty for people and and to add if you remember when this Administration first came in the lies was told about all the money was sto we don't have this we don't have that we don't have this and this Administration just set up here to try to skirt around that oh I came in with such a deficit I had to do this and I had to do that no what the problem is the deficit is sitting right there and they're comparing us to different city and the only way a doctor going to operate on his brain he's not going to look at my MRI and this is what the problem is before that we can go anywhere further with any of this we need to have the Baseline study for apka not from a consultant and everyone in here know that this Administration is good on high and consultant is one thing that I thank God for today on this day on my birthday that I have is some citizens finally coming out to see the underhanded crap that this Administration do amen Sylvester Hall 391 Rolling Hills Lane thank you for the citizens that are coming out for the first time we always say government local government is the most important government not federal is local what happens here on the local level we dictate that so for you first timers I'm going to say again welcome please don't let this be your last time there's a simple fix to all this we just don't have too many good people getting involved with what's going on you bring a wealth of knowledge a wealth of experience resources that you all have that's what you want to bring to your community to make your community safe and make your community Thrive but it takes all of us sharing our knowledge our wisdom our professionalism our training our experience all that's what make a a thriving community so when you see can you you talk when you see when when you see when you see when we see the outrage that's why we have the outrage because we come here over and over and nothing is being done and you laugh you twiggle your hands and you look away and you say sit down boy this is why you have the outrage this is why you have don't have the decorum that you're looking for this is a very simple process you show an itemized list of what's wrong what need to be fixed what it's going to cost to get fixed and it's very simple and you present that to the people it's very simple but we're going around and around round and around about all this when it's a very simple process a very simple process thank you um I know that it was mentioned that obviously name address again please sir oh Rob Josephson oill Reserve sorry about that um I don't know it was mentioned that you know this obviously is not going to gain any resolution today it looks that way the only thing I'm asking is this letter will need to be sent back out to the citizens so that we can review it and also you're going to need to include the garbage charge which was not in these letters but I feel that the community the community of Apopka and the Citizens need to have another letter clarifying once this all gets you know settled out okay um I don't want to point fingers I'm not gonna talk about process I'm new here what's been done in the past I want to talk about the actual issue that we're dealing with right now at hand now the is now the issue if you look at this document that's in front of you is at a 10% increase you're still going to be operating in the reserves at $5.6 million we don't have a reserve plain and simple if you want to fill that hole that 5 point or that $6 million 5.6 million it's going to have to come from somewhere and the most likely place is going to be the general fund we're going to be transferring those funds from the general fund into the water so all you're doing is subsidizing the water with other fees and taxes from the general fund so that's just the Stark truth that's just the Stark reality we're looking at that purple line we went through the process last week of these are the things that we can cut so we can bring the rate down we got it to this point right here to a point where it's actually balanced and you can see there that there isn't any funding from the reserves which so everybody knows here there are no reserves zero there's nothing to tap into this fund has gotten to that point so you have to you have to ask your there's no raises on here this is all operating operate operating in capital this is to maintain the water system the water the sewer and the reclaimed water so the Stark reality is is a a decision has to be made of how we're going to fund the system I'm just being blunt that's how it has you see those red numbers there we don't have those we do not have allag I think we understand that okay everyone here need understand that too well I think they understand that they just again it's an increase and we just need to be able to justify it correctly and educate everyone on the same page I think that's it and I argue that the justification is right in front of you I don't know where some of these numbers came from and neither do the residents they came from rais rais got from somewhere we just got to see the equal sign that's all everyone's asking for I guess the question is this been ever been an issue in years past or it just this year we've never done this big of an increase and basically rap tillers just gave us it is what it is yeah it is based on the rate increase they just gave us the revenue projections of what that Top Line so and with the original one with the 40% that came from a418 million Capital program that's what we got to ramp that included two expansion facilities and and all of that for water and waste water so that's why we're trying to push those out so that the next year the rate increase won't be as much and in 27 it won't be as much but we don't know that though right we don't know that for facts yet that's what we are working on right yes but that it what is set for 2025 would be the 23.75 is what we're trying to complete now is to minimize that impact going forward miscellaneous Revenue is basically going back to this slide here where we're trying to collect more revenue on the Zero read meters we try to figure out a way to estimate that because we don't have any readings and probably generate additional Revenue we don't know no no it's in this fund just in this fund so we want to they want to make sure we get everybody that's got a meter is paying yeah the water yes but it's it's how many are we do we have that aren't paying anything I think it's just some that have the zero reads right if they had a reading before we do it based on that previous reading but if we have no dataor that's less than no that's 600 600 so 600 not not paying anything and that that some have readings and some don't so that's just like like about 600 out of 30,000 right so and Al those could be that they're you know they have a place in the mountains or you know it's a it's a this is their second home not their primary home right is some of the new subdivisions that need that additional Flex net put on yeah so but so go back to that so if we take the let's take the 25 budget and which is the 10% and um that's 29 million uh 422 4 434 times 0.9 our budget last year was 26 million I you don't have the the the actual no I don't have it right in front of me so it looks like it was a$ 26 million budget so we've gone up from 26 26 to the 35 look at the 35 the bottom line is 35 at 10% right 35 but if you look at the it' be interesting to have the I mean we had the uh the 20 four budget we could see where the the big or the I don't think it's payroll payroll is probably 5% when we haven't added other than two new position jurs and then um that was it yeah no actually it was just that one and that's 109,000 okay you got some salary wage increase you got adjustments Rel to the um salary study that are reflected in here right and you just have some other operating increase the transfer is the same so be in that and capital probably went up a little bit Yeah so I mean I think we' we've heard from the residents pretty consistently we beat this up pretty well what what's the will of the council I guess moving forward well we need this tenative so I mean what are what are our options here as far as get another Hearing in or another I thought we were headed if I if I may say to setting go ahead and proceeding in a tenative Manner and then coming back to see if there's additional cuts that we can entertain I'm talking to the council it was a pretty consistent sentiment though I mean I you won't be able to get another notice out if we we have to go through that process again we're talking three three months three months I gotta get it out that's and get them scheduled to do a special run which is that's gonna have to be in advance and it's gonna cost another 30,000 do we have to do another we have you want the notice to go to them and then first we have to determine what we're gonna tell them what kind of in we GNA tell them so we have to do that first have to figure out what that number is send out and then send it out that's that's like three months that's why we had the workshops and I made it very clear in that Workshop I'm sending the Letters Out with the 40% 40% 15 and the 10% is noted in here in the letter it's just the rates are not there and they haven't been included in the past for garbage but it is that the same as it has been in the previous years but I understand the need so we're trying to move forward I thought with going ahead and setting the tenative budget and we can talk at that meeting what else are you looking for what what else do you want to cut but is no point in sending a letter out until you tell me what rates you want to look at because that includes I'm not sure that and and that's not what I think I think we're missing the point here it's not that we want more Cuts residents want to be properly notified of what's changing and why it's being changed we sent out a letter that said 40% I came to the workshop expecting 40% then a slide comes up that says 20% we added some more things in and it got to 23.75 per. the residents just want to be informed I guess um we can send out letters after you approve it or you want to question the 23. 75% I'm like what is the added step if I sit out of notice saying 23.75 you want more residents to come out and discuss it are you going to cut it then if they say they don't want 23.75 you want to go B to 20 you want me to send out more letters at the 20% maybe you see what I'm saying if it's to educate the residents properly well I think that's some biggest issue in the city of apka historically is that we just haven't educated residents properly and they don't trust our government well the decision has to come before the notification we need to present a balanced budget no no we amend a budg budgets constantly every month we do that yeah but it's a Balan got to go in with a balanced budget you have to have a balanced budget and then we can we can adjust in November if we want we can go down we can go up on on rates we'd have to let them know but we the process not not not Ador but yeah where the rat so I mean so you can set the tenative budget toight set the tenative millage rate tonight and if you would have want to have a workshop in between before we have the final to go through some of this we can advertise the workshop you know to to give go more over into the 401 fund and let the public come out to the workshop but as far as a notice is concerned that's a different process and like I said we've met the requirements of the ordinance as it is right now I understand that yeah and I can't put a notice out without a decision made and if the decision keeps changing you see what I'm saying so each time it started with the 40% decision was made I think the mayor had heard the outcry and trying to accommodate that he said let's see if we can get it down to 20% we came back and we said let's see if we can get it up with these additional things in there which was about a million dollars that brought us up to 23.75 per. keep in mind it's money coming from both ends this fund is cutting we're trying to minimize the impact on the citizens is in a deficit and stat hard work is not lost in me either so please don't think that I don't think it's lost in our residents either it's just we got bills to pay and we can't pay them without the money so I mean that that would be I think Jacob the recommendation is to try to proceed with as it is right now and coming back because it'll be before October 1 and have another Workshop if see if you want to do something different let me ask you this so it takes three months to get a new notice out we would be able to extrapolate a number of we'll call it lost Revenue without having those increases over three months and then we can balance how we need to from there okay if I give you we do estimated billing okay we can in order to change how that is done that is a whole system process our building system we have to work with Edmunds our lovely system to modify that methodology but aren we doing that with and a resident brought that up with the um estimated no read zero read meters aren't we already doing not yet that's something that we want to look into so that's that's 600 customers say an accurate number at all then what the zero read talking about the 46,000 correct it's just that's the number that we're estimating that we can potentially increase and we try to do something with that because those are manual adjustments okay as we do each building cycle we we did talk about can we you know like the estimated reads are we as accurate as we can be or or we could we bump those a little bit to you know to get closer to but you you're basing it on last year's you know last August versus this August so it's it's yeah it's a rolling 12 months that's how it was set up that's how the systems been doing explain this to me so if I buy a new house and it was a family of 10 living in it before and it's just my wife and two kids now reader the meter wrong I'm getting charged for the family from last year not accurately to what if it's being estimated and vice versa yes that we're undercharging if I'm a big family and or multiple people multigenerational family which is very common now as well well you're talking 30,000 customers and you know when you have the 6,000 you know down and I'm gonna say 600 is like I said those are some kind of manual adjustment as time allows as we do each billing cycle that's why it could be done a little different so let me ask this too if we were to table this tonight we'd have to table the budget meeting for tonight as well yeah I'm I'm trying to move forward and coming back because it is tenative that means you do have an opportunity to change that's what I'm trying to again I'm not my I my goal is not to change it we've gone through we've all spent a lot of time on this as well staff has spent much more the goal is not to change this to educate our resident educate our residents and make sure they're understanding not happy but understanding of why and where and how and and an education process wouldn't require all the public noticing that's something we can do right away well it would because the notice went out to 30,000 residents to educate them incorrectly I'm saying we couldn't do it by mail because yeah that would take a long time to get through the process yeah of getting through the system that mailing process is what yes the mailing process yeah yeah and that's if they if they would do another one I mean they're gonna charge you talk about you got to pay for the mailing and the posting well again and I want to go back to the fact that we all agreed to the 40% let's send that out and then unilaterally behind the scenes it got reduced to 20 which then confused a lot of people and and again all the residents here are basing off the letter they received which doesn't make this Council look educated at all so there's a lot of misinformation that's what I'm trying to correct here and it's been a a sentiment that's been echoed very consistently in all their comments uh of that same thing so again I don't want to BL her his point we got other things we need to take care of tonight but if we were to table this do I need to table if I motion that for a date certain or can we do this what does that look like I think we again I keep saying is if that the will I thought we were going towards R tenative I mean you could somebody makes a motion but we just got to make sure we got the time so we just we need to think through the the timing here um so we gotta have it by the but I don't know what we're gonna gain that's what I'm I'm trying to get clear on that because we can't send out the notices yeah we what we're gonna gain is public education correct understanding the reason behind the rate increase okay that's that's what we G okay through what Mees public the question yeah that's where I'm at because I don't want to leave here answer and be back we put we could have it maybe not tomorrow but by by Friday we could probably have something on the website we could get it in the newspaper on you want do that newspaper website social media yeah we've got we've got all the the people that get you know our our um monthly um newslet water bills by by email they we could do that but it goes out in cycles that could take a month well we could we could do everybody one time I'm sure that's not inco you can't but yeah NOP that's the special run I'm just being real because I went through this last year right I'm being real no and we had to go to FedEx and another place they were no I'm saying but we just the the email address we got which are we what half half of I'll see what enco can do with the ones but if it's not in that cycle they consider it to be a special run even an email but yes but it's not it's peanuts I mean pennies I can I can see so what do you want to go out with the 23.75 per. there a notice to all the residents with that well I think and the whole goal again it's and I hate that we're doing this on the flight absolutely hate that is that if we're going to go this route is that we have not only the 23.75 all the details to it that link to everything I want the uh rafis report linked so they can just click on it that it's easy to get to the slides that they presented which was it was hours long presentation that we went through room I want that linked I we want all the detailed information well that was that was the impact fees that wasn't I don't think that was that wasn't the uh 401 I don't think they've done a presentation on 401 no is again it was in the midst of the study and all they have is the revenue um projections and what was causing the 40% and how we could minimize it and what I just shared was I got a spreadsheet that s say this is the $418 million you know capital projects that contributing to this that's all I have emails in that spreadsheet we are in discussions with them to finalize it what what does the rest of the council prefer how many customers do we have on the utility bill in the water probably about 27 or 30,000 I'm sorry 2 7,27 to 30,000 commiss Smith Comm Mr Anderson any thoughts so a few thoughts I think for one I think it's to be kind of clear that the expectation is what I'm hearing is people saying they can't afford an increase so I don't want to set the expectation that we're we're looking at the budget to because I don't I I've heard the numbers I mean we spent a lot of time weeks on this and there's going to have to be an increase and to set the expectation which I think of course they want to be educated to understand where the numbers are coming from I think that's important as well but the expectation that I don't see how in the budget that we're going to go below the 23% based off the need um I think more so the educational components they can understand what those needs are so they can understand what they're paying for I think that's what I'm hearing in addition to that the people that can afford the increases are we able to link them with other organizations and services that can help offset that $30 a month um so the increase is just got it has to happen and we all all five of us have agreed that there has to be an increase and this is not we all voted for for the increase but I think it's the educational component that we a lot of us a lot of them the residents are missing and they just want to be informed so I think there needs to be some form of a meeting um with some type of presentation so they can understand what where those numbers are coming from so they can understand the value add and I think that's what it is they're saying what are we getting for this increase right so and and I think I think you know we we're working on an action plan as well I know we work Public Services Utility Billing I mean it's it's it's two departments working together to to to make sure we're getting all the revenue that that you know is do us that's you know um that's a you know obviously that's that helps but it's not a it won't not a game changer we definitely I mean they need to pay what they're supposed to pay so it's not a question of should they be paying what whatever they're oblig pay yeah we can explain all those details we can have a workshop next week just to go over that but set things down I think they want to know what they're paying for I mean that's what I've heard what they're paying for and other you have half that don't they're okay with the increase if they understand what the increase is for and where these numbers are coming from yeah then you have the other half of people are saying listen I can't afford it no matter what it is I can't afford the increase unfortunately there's going to be an increase M you know so I don't want to set the expectation that you know there won't be an increase so there will be but they need to just understand where the numbers are coming from so I think that's what it is understand and that's why we saying if we said it tonight we can have a workshop next week and go strictly over that does this the approval of this does this have to be a 50 Vote or is the millage rate that has to be a 5 vote the millage rate okay let's keep this moving forward then what do I mean I'm not winning people over so well I mean the choices you guys need to make well let me say uh we originally agreed on the 40% and that's what you sent out as we directed you to do so and and we heard from the public that 40% was not acceptable and so the mayor heard that as well and so therefore he went back and took it down to the 20% and then we came back to the workshop and you presented the 20% Then This Council was not in agree with the 20% because there was some line items that we insisted be the budget and so that's how we went from the 20 back up the 23.75 so what I'm hearing is is that even though they may not be able to afford it or may not be in agreement with the 23% increase that they just want to know what that money is covering right and so if you're able you spoke about possibly emailing or putting on the website how that 23% is being used I'm okay with coming you know waiting to Tuesday if you can get all that information to them by email or however on the website by Tuesday because I understand mailing is out of the question correct so I I'm okay with you get that information with them by email or post on the website so it's available to them to wait until Tuesday and then go ahead and approve this budget uh and the rate increase because it's obvious is it's going to be the 23% because we have no other choice but I think their basic concern is what the money is been used for and so that can be given to them by Tuesday and if we have the legal turn time to post that by Tuesday then let's do that and let me share with you the details will be what I have here mhm and taking just breaking the salaries and wages in friends is what it is just giving the line item details that you already have for the other operating expenses in the capital that's that detail and I think Jacob also add some right yeah yeah we we could do an alert we could do an alert yeah Rob could do an alert and the only thing I would add to this this this slide blanch is the 20 um the 24 budget yeah I would do that okay so even though they got you got the 10% I'd go ahead and wipe out the 10% and the 15% let's so I would wipe out the 10 and the 15% and start with the the the the 20 the 23.75 and the 40 which was what you know was initial and add the 24 and then and right so we got extra call there so that would that would help um commz you have any and can and can you also show the items that we deleted from the budget okay then they I can show them the previous slide I can do it on the another page yes yes okay yes I will yes I will and this will be posted on the website yeah email not email I have to work with enco on that we probably have out of the Y out of the 27,000 customers it may be let's say 10,000 or 15,000 that may have emails we still have to work through that that Outsourcing company that we have to send that out we'll figure something out but I I can't guarantee that part with them and it may be a cost I'm telling you the truth whatever the cost let okay all right we'll see what we can do but it definitely will be on the website everybody does not have emails I I I I believe we've come to a an agreement that we're going to work on this to try and give our residents the information that they are requesting and we'll come back on Tuesday and have a final vote on this we'll come back on Tuesday we're g try to say at 6:30 I thought okay so that and what we'll do at the um special budget special budget meeting or first budget hearing we'll set the rates as well as the millage as well as the Ten budget and then announce the other meeting and that's going to happen on Tuesday that will have to happen on Tuesday if we G to um postpone the meeting that we have this evening so we' be tbling this and then table the meeting tonight as well yeah when we start the meeting we'll end up tbling everything and resched till that day now I got to check and make sure I'm saying this because we can't have our first budget hearing on the same dates as Orange County and somebody else ocps we know thank you I don't have my and we can have we can't have our budget hearings on the same day that they have theirs why is that that's so that residents can stay involved with what they're being charged so there's not overlap I don't know I just learned yeah that's a a requirement by um property appraises office 10 10 can't do because I had to send our dates to the Property Appraiser's office it's a lot to this it's not it's not that it's not but if we and I'm I mean if we do like I said it's tentative I can still put the same information out and we still have the final budget hearing my fault is we would do we go Ahad and do the meeting at 5:15 do said everything but we come back and do a workshop after the fact exactly and then do what we need to do in the final that's where I hear well that's that's one yeah right both can you repeat the second option because now we realized that September 10th is not good the second option has because Orange County is it Orange County you said or ocp oh ocps the second option as I heard from the mayor is that we proceed tonight with approving the rates setting the tentative millage rate setting the tentative budget so I can get that advertised and um scheduling anoun anouncing the scheduling of the final budget hearing in between that time we have a workshop okay and I also post like what he just mentioned on the website and see what we can do in regards to emails now I can assure you even if we get the emails I don't I can't guarantee that that's going to go out to them on that you know in time for that Workshop I'm just being real I don't want to falsely mislead anyone because I've been through this process and rushed this process last year because they would not do a special run last year and we tried FedEx and everybody else in the world okay if if we're going to approve the ten milit rate and tenth budget at 515 tonight why we having the workshop be I guess citizens can come out and show how we got to that number Oh I thought I thought we were sending them that information yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna put it on the website still yeah I'm gonna see what I can I can still send it out but I can't guarantee it'll be out in time for a workshop but I can still send it out and we don't need the workshop I think we should do the workshop anyway but he wants the workshop or we can do both yeah yeah I think we do both we can do both and then when it goes out it may take a minute for it to go out but at least they'll go out with the final decision is that's what you want to and I'll try to add as much information as I can can no ma'am ma'am ma'am ma'am this is we're we're we're closed right now we we're okay so what what ma'am ma'am ma'am it this is we're just back to the council so what what's the pleasure did you understand commissioner Smith what um was being proposed is there a third [Laughter] option Monday or the last or the last Wednesday of the month could we flip it around and make the 18th the um first reading okay is that possible no you make the 18th the 1 okay and then we gotta come back that following week corre can we do that yeah so September 25th okay yeah you can you can if long as nobody's having a meeting on the 18th hold on did you Che yeah we check I have to check yeah I have to check I think we're good but I think we're good yeah I just saw yeah okay we're good okay good so yeah we can push everything off to the 18th but and I'll put some on the website and let you know about any email situation Mr Anderson your third option perfect okay okay you good everybody good with that then all right should have been offered oh because it felt like we could not go past the 18th but that's okay no we had mentioned the 25th before yeah the 18th we will yeah M shman can you repeat that please as I understand it commissioner Nesta we're going to push this off until the 18th table it till the 18th yes and also the meeting that we have scheduled for the first budget hearing tonight we're going to make the first budget hearing be on the 18th I do have to notify um the Property Appraiser's office of that change and then we'll schedule our final budget hearing for that following Wednesday which would be the 25th 25 which is the 24th it's the 24th 25th okay 25th and nobody's having their budget meeting on the 25th correct right that that one's good and what time are we doing these um I think you like six o'clock we can go at six o'clock the one on the 18th is already scheduled at six o'clock we just got to re vertise it to as the first budget hearing instead of the so we'll do it before the meeting before the council meeting on the 18th yes I guess so because that's at seven do you want it to start earlier then so let's start at 6 for the an hour enough time so six I hope so okay so okay so we have a six is on the 18th and then on the Wednesday the 25th for the second reading for the budget we start also at $1,800 on the 25th yeah um it has to be after five okay so that would be I know you're doing the military time yeah has to be after five okay okay right that's where we starting at six okay is that it all right still got sanitation to do don't forget well do we just table it because we're gonna you trying to table you want table it as well let's table that as well table as there seemed like there were some questions about that as well we've got Josh is here but okay um all right so I'm looking let's see here so we're tbling also we have to make a motion for that okay so I look for a motion to table resolution 202 24-23 until 6 o'clock on the 18th so moved got a motion by commissioner Nesta second second by commissioner Smith all those in favor I I I'll oppose motion car anybody wants to speak on the resolution 202 24-22 that maybe won't be here for next wait minute I'm sorry which not 21 20 21 is anybody anybody want to speak on or you just can we just table that one if they're here already right yeah yeah okay nobody wants to speak on that then we'll look for a motion to um table resolution 2024 D21 until um September 18th at 6 o'clock so much got a motion by commissioner Vasquez second second by commissioner nesa all those in favor allose motion car all right city council report can we take a quick break five minute break thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right call the meeting back to order commissioner Anderson you want start us out um absolutely so I really don't have much to report so really quick don't have a lot to report uh one of the things I want to say is I've been receiving a lot of different forms of communication in regards to the nonprofit funding um it is a line item in the budget it have not been approved but once there's more information um I will definitely reach out to you all that reached out to me so there has been a lot of positive feedback the community the community is excited about the um possibility of having that nonprofit funding so um I'm excited to hear the um the feedback from the community in regards to that and that was something I will continue to continue to advocate for in addition to that um I will start having office hours here on the 1 and 3D Wednesday from 11:30 to 12:30 and you can also start um checking my social media site and I'll have different times with there as well but for now that that'll be my set schedule in regards to office hours and that is it all right commissioner Velasquez okay Mr Smith well I just like to uh Echo what commissioner Anderson said I also received some great feedback on the fact that we set aside the money for the nonprofits and so they're looking forward to when we get the uh guidelines put in place in order those funds can be used also just want to remind everybody we have uh Hispanic heritage uh activities coming up uh this month and so want to make sure you come out and participate in those and be involved in those activities as well and uh look forward to our first budget meeting got it all right Mr Nesta absolutely know I just want to thank the residents for everyone that came out today um please come out the 18th as well to make your voice heard it's important to make sure that we're we're representing you correctly up here um want to mention there's a few things I need to go over and just need some feedback on or that I may motion on um don't need to motion on this but just want to let you know I'll be hosting this is for all the residents a town hall meeting it'll be September 12th 2024 from 6:00 to 8:00 pm right here in city council chamber it's a Thursday Thursday evening September 12th from 6:00 to 8:00 pm it's just an open form to be able to have some communication with the residents Another Touch point to discuss whatever you need to if you have concerns if you want to see what plans are going on just to get some Fe feedback from residents and again as many touch points as possible with my residents is is really important to me so I have flyers for that you'll see um some social media uh things as well but again it's going to be here in the council chambers September 12th from 6:00 to 800m um let me see here the next one is are we gonna We mayor are you going to stop recording public comment again today as well yes what was that yes okay well I we'll be making a motion here but the the point is we need to continue and not have any Interruption since we've been doing this for years of public comment being broadcast um it's a civil rights violation and we definitely don't need the American civil liberties Union to be involved in any capacity um so I'll make a motion that we continue to live stream on YouTube the entirety of the agenda from gabble to gabble so a motion motion that that we live stream as we have in the past for years the entirety of the agenda from gavel to gavel from the call to order to marriage report and public comment I have a question for the attorney is that a civil rights violation I just want to make sure we're not violating any type of Rights I will say that no you're not guiding civil rights to not broadcast your meetings because your meetings are not required to be broadcast okay okay got a motion by commissioner n second by commissioner Vasquez all those in favor I all those opposed I was that I to oppose or to oppose to again mayor okay well consistent the public should have okay and commissioner Smith you agree with that as well to not record anymore uh yes as long as the uh voice recording is still going uh that's all we're requir to do by Bo okay all right anything else yes uh the next one up is a um speaking of budgets this is very timely um infrastructure talks of everything that people have discussed uh today with increases and and the amount of money we're pulling from the mattress to balance the budget a moratorium is needs to come to discussion come in front of us I think it's something that needs to be on the agenda either next week or next month um it needs to be a moratorium for six months both residential commercial real estate not only to give our staff time to catch up and create a plan but also for our infrastructure to do the same for us to budget correctly we're going so fast on the development side that we're not able to keep up at all and I brought some examples too the city of zephra Hills um they have a more due to water supply concerns the city of Florida City uh they're doing a moratorium for six months for planning and infrastructure concerns and and to give staff time for planning the town of dundy also moratorium for water supply concerns city of newera beach flooding issues and infrastructure concerns City of Homestead infrastructure school capacity Road capacity concerns and St Pete Beach uh there's too much commercial they were focused too much on Commercial hospitality they want more residential so again it helps to provide time for our staff to catch up um it was a sentiment that's been throughout this whole budget is that we don't have enough staff in place that obviously our infrastructure is failing and we're just building building building and I think it's time that this gets brought up and we put it to a vote for the residents to also give some input on it and then it was came up tonight that Co was one of them yep correct so there's there's quite a few I mean that we're not first to this by any means and I think it's important and thank you for that commissioner Velasquez it's important that we have these that they're already Paving the path of how to do this properly I know um attorney Shepard there are very specific thresholds we need to be meeting very specific items which is fine we can do that I think now is the time though I think this budget season really showed that we're not ready for the development that's coming we can't stop what's already been approved but we can stop annexing and doing the items that that are still yet to come um so I make a motion that we have that on either the next agenda or the agenda after that a moratorium we'll be happy let's do a workshop the first meeting in October I mean I think that would be obviously a great that's up to you all yeah I I do think that um well if you want me to wait to my report I can talk to you about more terms because I've done them multiple times but they have to be narly tailored they have to have a specific end date they have to have a planning purpose that is articulable as opposed to we just need a pause we have to say okay we're getting a study we're doing we there's some things we in which right now we don't even know how much a study would cost all of which is to say that it's not just well let's poose a moratorium on what building permits multi family single family uh just commercial are we doing it on office etc etc so I can't just draft the moratorium without knowing what it is I'm trying to stop and why I'm trying to stop while you figure out what it is needs to be done okay let's let's put together we do a workshop the first um or just as a part of do a presentation we do a presentation the first meeting in October o I can send out uh multiple moror Mor we have one in place right now in Eatonville for impact fees so I have no problem I can it'll give you some ideas about what goes into moratorium you have to have exceptions for invested rights and a whole number of other things and you need to say it's going to be from this date to this date and you really really need to move Heaven to Earth to make sure that when that date comes to the end you're done ready sure and and to your point are you able to provide samples and things like that examples of what we're doing and how it's framed what it looks like okay I think that would be very valuable it's I think this budget season just showed that so much that that and I support that because I asked to do that five years ago and was told it was illegal so I'm we got a better attorney now a different attorney I'll say that um and then the final one that I have and I know we've all received and I just received a final communication today uh or the most recent communication from um Mr Shepard in reference to um this commission as a whole and their qualifications to serve um there's documents floating around on social media that I don't have an opinion on one way or the other but it we need to have some type of action taken to make it one way a finalized action from a judge that says hey one two all of you none of you are are qualified to serve based on the state statutes as well as our city Charter so that we can push this through and be done with it one way or the other um I what we need to do and we've done in the past is just bring in an outside Council not to gr an opinion but to file for a declaratory judgment we've done that in the past again without making a motion that's happened um spent thousands on that actually to make that happen I think that would be it would create confidence which I've been talking about all tonight for our residents and I think that's what we need to do is just say look it's done this is a done point one way or the other have all of us reviewed of all of our qualifications as it states in the charter and the state statute and engage an outside party and attorney so attorney Shepherd I don't know if it's something you want to run with to engage an outside party and and I have an attorney uh Sandridge that's based out of Tampa that I think would be qualified they've done incredible work on the Civic side um or something that I can obviously engage for us and talk to them and then connect you guys so whatever you prefer we can run with so that we can put this to bed and not just have opinions let's have a deck action and call today yeah I if the council wants to direct me to get somebody to to do this whether it's Sandridge who I do not know or you know it's not a complicated thing in terms of the the mechanics of filing something but it needs to have d consideration because of what you're actually saying it's not as simple as saying well we're going to go to the court and ask for an opinion that's not what a deck action is about a deck action requires there to be somebody on the other side with one opinion and you of a different opinion and then you ask the court if you have legal standing to determine based on their view of the law and the facts what is real and what is the right opinion and even that's subject to appeal and all the other stuff that goes along with legal remedies so for example and again I assume we're adults here so we can just call what it is the emails that have been coming in have been involved commissioner Anderson at since before the election all of those same people who are still complaining we're told then the action is to go to court on your own as the opposing candidate or any other way and have it reviewed then not after the election but before they did not choose to do so so now what you're saying is that we would retain attorney to essentially bring a lawsuit against a City Commissioner so that definitely cannot be me because I need to be able to give good advice to everybody and have them believe that it's coming from a place of this is the law not some personal animous so that rules me out but it does mean that whoever you're hire you're saying essentially Sue commissioner Anderson so she can then get a lawyer and have the other side of the argument for why she is qualified and is rightly in that seat and this lawyer you're hiring to Advocate the opposite it is not here are all the facts figure it out that's not how a deck action works it's advocacy 100% understood and I think that's that's what's important right now is is we've had different emails and Communications everybody has uh on this matter and I just I want to put it to bed one way or the other I think that's important and we have so many different issues that we need to be focused on and not this is not one of them so I want to get this this taken care of um in the past we've had um we've engaged attorneys that this whole council did not approve um that cost thousands of dollars to us so this is no different in that capacity um and and our city manager had stated that you know you took an opinion that said everything's perfect everything's fine everyone did everything exactly what they should it it's it's something that was done before you got here so I I I'm surprised you took that opin it's a very staunch strong opinion on that uh so again it's just to put this to bed one way or the other call to day and let's keep moving we like I said we've got other infrastructure things we need to be dealing with a moratorium um these rate increases there's a lot that we need to deal with so um let's put this to bed let's bring the facts to the table have one side have the other do what we need to do and keep moving well since it is who's the lawsuit it would be attorney Sandridge no no he can't F the lawsuit can represent who I'll I'll find you someone including I'll Mr Sandridge or whoever that is I I don't if that's what you decide you want to do bring you several names you can pick whatever you want to do I'm not paying for anybody that's that's somebody wants to to sue over whatever that's any lawsuit yeah any laws so please file lawsuit that's crazy okay no my address is private and I'm protected I welcome any lawsuit and I'm qualified to sit in his seat well there's documents floating around otherwise and I don't have an opinion on that one way or the other like I said it just needs to be finalized and everyone else has made an opinion on it up here clearly and uh again it just creates confidence when we can say for sure no matter what this is accurate and there's nothing that's changed on it so if the council as a whole can all say that for sure you guys know each one of us is duly qualified to serve and you guys can make that statement to our residents then no problem but it's uh it's a something that's come up multiple times and it's not going to go away similar just moving public comment to the end and not broadcasting it but for that since you guys all understand what you're doing and and have looked reviewed and and can guarantee that there's no issues there then then it is what it is at this point so that with that I'm finished okay Jacob you got anything yeah we have one thing um I sent all of you that uh there's this property the Duke Energy property there's a proposed contract to purchase that property it's on 205 East and 8th Street the idea is to have that uh that property be available for some kind of homelessness like a like an intake Center uh put it out to competitive B bid to see who would want to take over that put put a facility there um that so I'm bringing that forward just opening it up for discussion if that's something we want to move forward with uh what your thoughts are so you know there there's the piece next to it is we have a storm water drain there and then we we acquired by I think um codee enforcement violations NE the next strips so I think he put all three pieces together it' probably be close to an acre but anyway so Duke Energy we had a meeting with them um it was a Brownfield site uh that they couldn't get rid of and they just now got it cleared uh for for as far as a brown a brown site Brownfield and so um if there be would they would be happy to sell it to us if we wanted to purchase it um obviously we don't have to purchase it just just try to get a you know just want to get a feel from the the council then obviously there's a couple steps because it's in the CRA we have to go to CRA first um to to get their approval and we have to come back to council uh to get the final approval and then as as um Cliff Shepard said is uh we couldn't designate the property to anyone we'd have to go back out to an RFP to do somebody to run that Center so it's it's not an RP but it is a 30-day notice under 163 380 anytime you're disposing of and disposing includes leasing uh property in the CRA it's a 30-day minimum notice you can do longer uh to solicit other people from the community or in organizations from the community who may wish to do the thing like you've subscribed it when this is done uh and cities already have an idea who they' like to do something they generally script the notices so they're very specific and to if to the individual that they or the business that they'd like to work with I say this not because I think that's the way it should be but that is the way it is and in fact this is a very common practice so for example um going back you know more than a decade in the city of matland when they were trying to plan a downtown and they had approached from only really one developer with great plans and intentions um they did a whole lot of planning and talking but no Contracting until they got it the point where they had a fully formed idea and then they put that fully formed idea in the 30-day notice and there was obviously then as it turns out only one person that applied one company that applied to be the developer so that is as weird as it may sound that is a normal procedure and it's done all over the state however because of this thing homeless shelter there are multiple outfits out there potentially qualified and interested to do something you could expect that you would probably get more than one response so now I I did discuss with you because I had spoken with the our County Commissioner and we have that building on lust Road and that was a building that um I felt that we can partner with the arage county because they have the they have the money to invest in that building so I don't see why we would want to purchase this property for the resource center when we can partner with Orange County and use the lust Road building which is actually it it has more access to the hospital has access to um facilities that we would be able to uh refer anyone that comes into the resource center so is that something that you would consider because for like building that everyone sees on9 I think that's a it's we don't own that I we just relase that for a dollar a year from St John's right but when I spoke to the county commissioner they're having a meeting because there was a restriction on it correct and so that's what they're negotiating right now so that that meeting will be taking place I believe sometime this week that building showing if we own it excuse me that building 2800 l Road is showing as if we own it right but it has a restriction when St John's aded it to the city which was unknown to me when we tried to offer it I remember to uh a nonprofit I was unaware that it was deed that it was deeded with restrictions so I learned that it has a restriction It could only be used for water or utility so Orange County is right now in uh is having a meeting with St John's to see if they can um remove that restriction and the reason why it makes sense is because uh I believe uh Orange County has like $218 million that they are dedicating to uh different you know projects and one of them is a homeless shelter so that would be I guess a great partnership that we can have something with Orange County I guess especially since they have the funds I guess the question is is um if they couldn't get those restrictions taken if they couldn't take those little louder sorry I have a cold if we couldn't get those restrictions taken off of that property right would this be a good plan B this would be Plan B but I don't think we should vote on this right now well I'm not asking for a vote it just discuss if this something bring to the council at at the at the next Council but I just wanted to kind of give this information regarding l r because for years for as long as I've been here um you know uh we've had many organizations who's asked about that building and the last one that I have here was of if I'm not mistaken was from Naomi kids um uh she had actually had someone go out there and do a an assessment of of the building so I have all that information but when I reached out to the county commissioner um she did mention the Restriction which I was unaware of and I do remember that that building was offered a few times but I was unaware of the Restriction that was on there from St John's well let me ask understanding is that the County Commissioners is having a meeting or the staff is having a meeting with St John's the so if the city owns a building how is orang County having a meeting to have the Restriction releas with us and put their that put their funds for their homeless shelter shelter into uh Lush Road and you don't think they should be having the meeting with the city since they're the owner of the property I don't know I'm a little confused so I'll have to talk to well then that our mayor should actually contact our count County Commissioner yeah I think if we own the property that we should be involved in that sure discussion but it wasn't an option I guess were you aware of the Restriction no I wasn't aware of the Restriction because we were trying to also get that for CI yeah for warehouse oh okay see you were looking at it for City service yes that's what we we talked about that before we did but what was not the information of the Restriction was not given to any of us right I learned about that restriction uh few days and I was like I had no idea have that restriction that's all I have it okay Cliff uh briefly I just wanted to cover this issue that came up so it it's properly addressed um uh Dr uh homstead had sent me a case I think I sent it to all of you all or at least sent you a link I didn't I apologize I'll be happy to send it it's the losan versus city of Riviera Beach case it's a Florida case at that ended up at the Florida supr at the US Supreme Court and I I said then to her in writing um that it didn't really apply there are other things that actually do require us to look back at 2016-16 our internal policy and I will be bringing forth a new policy for you but I wanted to read this very brief section so we all understand that the case does not stand for the proposition that Dr Olstead holds this is from the syllabus opinion it is on page eight it says the issue before the court is a narrow one in this court losan does not challenge the constitutionality of Florida statute criminalizing disturbances at public assemblies he does not argue that the statute is overly broad or that it impermissibly targets speech based on its content or Viewpoint or that was enforced in a way that cortell Lan's right to Peaceful assembly losan furthermore does not challenge the validity of the city council's asserted limitations on the subjects speakers may discuss during the public comment portion of the City Council meetings although he continues to dispute whether those limitations are in fact existed point being this case does not address the ability to control the topics that speakers speak about at the podium and it has been the rule and it continues to be the rule that when you have a specific topic you can request that the speaker stay on topic until you get to the general public comment section which is coming up and then all the boundaries are different because it's specifically designed for things that are not on the agenda so that's the cas she sites I've read to you directly from it so I'm not coloring it that's what the case says all right thank you Cliff all right mayor's report let's see a couple of things starting okay Monday September 9th 11:00 a.m. grand opening of Al housee so Monday it will be open so we're excited for that uh September 11th is our September 11th Memorial Service uh right out in front of City Hall at 8:30 a.m. uh a couple other things um we've got the three contests going on the redesign the flag redesign contest so if you've got an idea what a flag should look like go on to our happy birthday aa.com flag backf flag - contest back slash uh also have an essay contest about our our um uh emblem so if you you know got the kids out there wanted to do that that we'd love to have uh folks to to kids to weigh in on that also have the Hispanic heritage art contest so for students K through five so be sure to get um involved that and then obviously the Hispanic heritage festival will be on September the 28th uh then we've also got uh oh we got ayc so we're we've we picked up a couple we're still only at four students so if you've got anybody that wants to be a you know a part of the city ayc poka youth Council we really need you to sign up uh immediately and what's the great level that's Juniors and seniors um magical dining I don't know for people that haven't heard about that magical dining we have two restaurants in a popka it's a pretty prestigious um level of restaurants that get to do this and so we've got nauy Lobster and back room Steakhouse are both in the proog program and so what it does it's a I think it's a $40 meal including appetizer and dessert and certain amount of the proceeds go back to to Charities within the the central Florida area so it's there's 40 or 50 restaurants I think in that that magical dining um list so if you get a chance go visit R2 in a popka which is naughty Lobster and back room Steakhouse and when is that it's a month of September and I always like to end on a on a happy note and I just I just have to read this this is U pretty pretty amazing this is from well I'll just say a lady from Rock Springs Ridge hello I have been a resident of Apopka for 17 years and have lived in Rock Springs Ridge for the same amount of time I had a wonderful interaction with an employee this morning and I wanted to commend him somehow I wasn't sure who was who was best to contact so I thought I'd go all the way to the top at the mayor's office on my morning walk I along with a few few other residents encountered an older gentleman who was clearly disoriented and not supposed to be out for a walk as some residents and I tried to figure out where he lived and how to get him back home the city of the Popa garbage truck driver pictured below stopped to help he had seen this man sitting on the side of the road and he had also seen someone put a wheelchair out in their trash for pickup so he went and got it to bring it to the older gentleman he then also got cold water for him brought him paper towels to wipe off with helped direct traffic out of the man's path and then helped get him in the vehicle when the caregiver arrived to take him home he was a true blessing and went above and beyond to help us all but especially this older Apopka resident who was in need this employee could have easily kept driving and going about his day but he went out of his way to make a difficult situation much better I didn't catch his name but I sincerely hope that he can be located based on this picture below this took place the morning at 10:30 a.m. and this picture was taken at Calona Avenue and Rock Springs Ridge I have blurred the faces on the other people for privacy thank you and his name is Charles Rogers so if you see Charles out there give him a big shout out because he was an amazing employee and we're so proud of the people we have that work here for the city all right with that public comment for