e e e e e e e call the special council meeting to approve and set the prop proposed fiscal year 2024-25 millage rate blance Sherman come on now all right good evening mayor Commissioners um now that we've completed our budget workshops want to give you an overview of the proposed um fiscal year 20124 2025 millit [Music] rate some of the key Revenue increases in the current year budget for the general fund as you can see um several increases increase in avalor taxes about 4.9 million utility tax electric that I mentioned earlier about 1.1 million building permits of course due to all the growth that we're having 1.9 million state revenue sharing 628 th000 sales tax 1.9 engineer fees due to the growth that we're having about 1.2 million Recreation activity fees program activity fees 159,000 and of course in the interest so that comes to a total of 12.9 million that we're seeing as an increase in our budget general fund budget 70% increase on interest and dividend investment that's very good yes it is okay oh man what you have before you here is a general overview of the general fund budget in the uh amounts of the expenditures per the um cost centers or divisions and that is like a total of 906 million 97.8 million which is an increase of 12.4 billion of 14.49% increase some of the key uses of revenues as you know it as mentioned in the write up we're using about 8 million $8.1 million to balance the budget as it is right now 4.1 million is coming out of assigned Capital reserves for the new Erp system e system that I mentioned in my presentation for finance and inventory management system we have Citywide Security System access system upgrades 400k expand the walkways at Northwest Recreation Center $100,000 uh steel Pavilion for Parks utility cart storage 150,000 and some facility interior Renovations in fire stations 314,000 and 7 00,000 for the vehicles for the 10 new police officers that was requested by the police chief out of the committed reserves um um ratley mentioned in his U presentation of the director of parks and Rex of the treeg fund we're doing about $500,000 those funds are committed funds that are set aside in our reserves to be used for that particular purpose in regards to the unassigned reserves that are in excess of our 25% required Reserve amount we're using about 2.6 to support that transfer of about 3.4 million to the streets fund for you know to maintain operations there firefighters we incorporated an additional 5% increase over the 5% increase that equates to 475,000 and we carry over some of those ARP funds for the economic development department because that director started midy year so anticipating carrying over about 880,000 of that and for the equipment Associated for the tent officers about 21,900 for a total of 3.4 million coming out of the unassigned reserves that are in excess of the 25% Reserve Thro so from that what I know that the 25% Reserve was something we put into place a couple years ago under you know commissioner vanson's directive um what what did go up this year based on our projected um funds or our expenses general fund expenses how much did it go up the to% yes the dollar amount is probably about 23 24 million so compared to last year was probably probably a couple of millions M just off top of my head it's so we've we've have a larger Reserve than we had last year yes sir okay yes yes sir can I can I ask you um in the past years how did you what did we use to balance our funds well when I was here last year we set aside about I'm going to say about 13 million in FY 22 for Capital reserves like the one-time items okay so that was about 13 million and for 2023 we added a few more thousand so about 16 million so if I go to next slide okay they ending up being that 16.7 million in that reserves for capital projects onetime Capital items in the FY 24 budget we plan to use that 8.1 that's how we did we balanced the budget last year but that's out of capital reserves not operating reserves Capital reserves okay did we did we use funds from the Utility Fund because I remember when we started this fiscal year the Utility Fund we had to we had to give them 9 million we had to put $9 million from the reserves yes this is just the general fund right I'm talking about right here okay this is strictly the general fund okay this is not the utility funds this is not the impact def funds the millage only pertains to the general fund okay okay so you good y okay so based on the audited financial statements the general fund balance the unassigned reserves the total $34 million okay the assigned was 20 million which included $855,000 for culture and recreation committed funds 2.3 capital projects 16.7 Insurance 500,000 what I'm trying to show you here is how we have used those funds and how it's being applied in FY 24 as well as fy2 so in FY 24 in the adopted budget that $8 million is coming from there that was the 8.1 out of that 16 million in this year's budget we we we are in FY 24 budget let me say the budget amendments we've had budget amendments so far is about 4.5 and in the current budget that we have proposed today we're using about 4.1 okay for those planned these are capital projects where we have set aside funds anticipating that we're going to have those needs and these are funds that are over and above the 25% threshold and even still have excess funds above that 25% threshold that is down in the unassigned amount okay the 500,000 that I mentioned before coming out of the tree bank is those committed funds about 2.3 the tree Bank amount is about 1.7 and we have another 67,000 for storage retention so that leaves a balance there of 1.8 at this point we have to utilized all of the cap Capital reserves with this budget proposal okay so going down to the unassigned that as of FY 23 it was 34.6 Million 200,000 came out last year FY 24 4.2 in budget amendments that we've done so far during the fiso year and the 3,448 for the fy2 budget leaving about 26.7 million in on the sign at this point so there's your answer there okay which is still over that 25% threshold amount what would be the 25% dollar it's about 23 23 million okay thank you okay I guess why do we have so many reserves over the policy we created of 25 % well when you have committed funds I guess they were set aside in the past these reserves were set up for culture and recreation those committed funds sometimes they're restricted funds you know if you have an external restriction you know you can go and restrict those funds for future use as planned and are as restricted and then when you do an ordinance like the tree bank is an ordinance so when you collect those funds they're considered to be committed funds for that particular purpose and then your reserve policy is what laid out you're assigned and you're unassigned your reserve policy allows you to assign funds for those capital projects like that when they're in excess of those um that 25% okay so the budget as it stands right now this is how the budget was balance at this particular point we do have some additional information we want to share with you in regards to the millage because we do want to incorporate some additional funds and about 1.7 million as you see on the slide before you and Jacob um is g to come up and explain that so one of the things that we haven't seen in the budget we haven't discussed yet and uh commissioner Nesta brought it up in in the last session was we are in the middle of negotiations with buer and that number we don't have an exact number on that but that is something that has not been counted into this current budget now you see we have a balanced budget but we're using quite a bit of reserves in order to to balance that budget I want to give a little bit of history of what I've seen and I don't want anybody here to take offense people anybody that's upon the diets because this is purely numbers and I'm just looking at trends I don't know who did what and what policy decisions were made but uh just just give you an example first of all when it comes to the mill rate itself I found out that uh it was increased in 2018 it was increased in 2020 and the last time anything happened to the mill rate was actually 2021 it was actually rolled back to uh what it what it is today so there hasn't been any change in the mill rate for the last four yeah about four years in that same time period we've had some uh some increases in the adum as well as and I I counted you know some of the larger Revenue sources that' be sales you know that and the shared taxes with the county and the state uh of course there are some more intergovernmental that affect fire and police and and also planning but these are the big ones and this is what I found out um from 21 to 2 2 we had about a $1.8 million increase in Revenue at that same time Public Safety combined which takes up right now 60% of our budget had a 3.5 million increase in operations operations and Personnel I should I should say that 22 to 23 um the city had about a $4.2 million increase in revenue from the year prior to the next year in the public safety budget it went up 6.4 million and then this last year 23 to 24 we had an increase of about five five and a half million and then the budget for Public Safety went up 7.7 I'm sorry what was that 7.7 million so you can see the trend there this this Revenue the ad valorum as well as the the sales related taxes are not keeping up with the amount that's being put into 60% of the budget which is that Public Safety so there's a trend there and now we've hit that we've hit that point where we've crossed over where we've been using reserves that that Revenue was caught has not caught up the expenses have caught up to that Revenue line and now it's Crossing and that's that's the issue we have here to complicate that more um we have not included in this budget those Union negotiations which could be in the neighborhood of two to3 million in in a ask so uh were you able to pass out the the sheet yes okay so I gave you a sheet of just a comparison so because it's always a good idea to look to see how we're doing compared to the cities that are nearby uh what their millage rate is right now you can see here this is this is for Orange County and we're at 4.18 which is one of the lowest here on and what we're asking for tonight the recommendation is to increase to 4.43 which is this it's actually more of a 15% increase over what it is currently um if you include the roll back it's 31.2% but that would generate about 1.7 now that won't help us catch up with our Revenue but at least will'll keep us where we're at right now so so I'm saying my recommendation this evening is at least that 4.43 76 and we can spend the rest of this year I can go into it more more analysis I know we have some strategic planning to do we have a whole bunch of capital Improvement plans to look over because another element of this is also our Enterprise funds and you know we're going to need those rate increases and I know it can hurt when you're having all these increases but the truth of the matter is you know we've got these increased costs Personnel costs you know that inflation's been through the roof and um our Revenue has not followed that that same trajectory so any questions any questions for Jacob I mean if we we go for with the millage rate right now V there was some things in the budget that I wanted to discuss to try and move them from where they're at or just you know because if we approve the budget then I'm approving the budget as is yeah and it's true I mean another thing the other issue is transportation yeah we're not transferring as much as we have in the past we're not able to do as many projects we as we have in the past yeah we're falling behind that's the other thing too I'm just saying my recommendation at this point is just the status quo this is what it is but it's up to the council to decide up or down from there what your priorities are um if you want to improve maintain or decrease services so can that be done now or does it come after yeah that could be done now because I oh sorry someone's yelling turn on the mic I'm sorry um do you understand what I'm saying if we approve if we go forth now and decide all right what's the military then I'm actually approving the budget as it is presented you're not necessarily approving the budget but you are setting the millage rate and we cannot go higher no I do know that right we can go low lower right and because we did this the workshop so early in the month we literally have one more week we would have the special meeting on the 17th where we either stay with the millage rate that we're voting today or we can go lower yes ma'am right so you're so what you're doing is you're setting up yes the revenue side of the budget because most of it we don't have any control over so you know we did go through and we reviewed all fees some are increased last year some that weren't we looked at them this year and came up with the rationale and justification of what they should be so there were some increases that helped to bring in some more of we've already done that so really this is the last thing that we have that that really this this Council has any control over we don't have any control over you know the shared revenue of the intergovernmental no but I think to commissioner vasquez's point is that there was request throughout hey let's adjust this let's update this streets needs a lot more money status quo is not going to work for what they are needing no status quo is yeah going backward it's problema still it's going backwards where the budget that's presented is not acceptable we need our residents are demanding that we do more so to commission vas's point there's a lot that needs to be added into this and then we need to see what that looks like and then figure out where we want the millage to be I believe is your request commissioner blasz right well yeah because there were some things in here that you know I had generated an email corre saying this is this is a line item for 2425 but I feel that it shouldn't be there um there were a few things and I mean you sent me the email I'm just kind of reviewing it now but I want to be assured that if I if we vote on the millage rate I'm not voting on the budget as is that there's an opportunity to make some changes within the budget you will have an opportunity to make some changes but we are stuck with that Revenue level is what he's saying for the avalor taxes um if we set the millage rate at that particular rate you wan to the short answer is you need to set it higher if you plan to go down because you can't go up I do know that no I do know that but I'm just orur that yeah we'll set it but that anything that was presented within within the budget we can either make some changes whether it's to take away and and it to say we we don't want to put it under this line item let's make let's take that and put it somewhere else let me give you an example of what um commissioner Nesta just mentioned in regards to the street fund we have 3.4 $3.5 million that is transferred that's an expenditure for the general fund that goes to the street fund if he wants to transfer more funds from the street to the street fund that's going to require more Revenue out of the general fund which could increase that millage rate from where he we're proposing at that right additional 1.7 yeah to where we're talking about a 0.25 increase in the milage rate it may require 0.5 anything that we do in the street funds is reoccurring well I don't think I think it's just in particular with the street yeah so to to to put a finer point on it uh commissioner Anderson made a great point of we she wants a specific line item for uh I think it was juneth juneth was that was it okay for juneth valid point so if we're proving it tonight this budget doesn't have that line item out I I understand but I was looking at the big ticket item as well because you mentioned the street fund we have the you mentioned $50,000 for Main Street apoa right we're taking $110,000 out of the mayor's budget for the marketing Economic Development marketing we taking $20,000 out of uh facilities budget for the lust Road item so we do have some changes there that we can make but if what we saying is if we set this millage at this point that's the revenue right there okay so we so we'd have to work within and make cuts to do anything else somewhere else okay yeah we we have to do the balancing act with whatever that Revenue number is but I think commissioner vaska's very specific question is if she if we approve tonight can we start adding in those line items down the road I understand you're saying we need money for that so you're saying we need to adjust it but we don't know what like commissioner Smith made the point to night uh he wants a cleaning crew for each fire station once a month whatever it may be I I don't know what the cost is to that so we don't know those numbers to be able to set the correct millage rate but for what I'm hearing is basically just set it high and we'll fix it later no we're saying if you set it high you can go down right that's if you don't set it high can't go up you can't go up no we and I do understand that actually there's some cuts and I want to kind of just s there's some line items that I feel that that money can be used elsewhere if I'm using money from one line item and sort of saying well why aren't we doing and over here um so that's that's all I want to do you want to move some things around he did make the point with the fire department we don't have those numbers so at some point when we get those numbers I hope that we're within yeah I guess how we ensure that these are going to be line items as requested each commissioner made a very valid request and I guess how do we confirm that those will be in there assuming we all agree to it and things like that when do we see that um we'll be bringing back a tenative budget and typically that comes in September but you can you can see it we can have another meeting on the 17th and you can see it then I think that would be very valuable to get everyone's line items that were requested can we set the Miller at that same meeting then yes you can at the 17th on the 17th yes we have with our line items added then okay yes you have time we have to have we have 35 days we have to yes you have time we can do it on the 17 so let's well okay but we need to be clear on what you want added I got some items but I don't have them all and then we can come back with the recommended millage that'll match that I think that' be y we can do that so so in the 17 if we set the mil then then we don't have another opportunity is that correct it's not you can set it down we can it's not about the opportunity it's that once you set it whatever that number is does not go up it only can go down so if you're looking to add things to the budget and you're not not sure the number is good enough and you're not sure where you're going to cut and you were setting it tonight which I understand that that may not be happening then you want to set it higher so you have some flexibility otherwise you set it here if you don't have enough something's getting cut don't know what but that's what that's what this is about so it for the Public's understanding setting at a number of whatever it is Mills does not mean that's where you end up it means you have now the flexibility to figure out okay well we want more parks and more roads we don't want to cut either one which if you don't have it high something's got to get cut so I I'm going to ask if you would take a look at the milit rate at 4.68 76 and then if we need to then we can come back and come down if we need to that would be my suggestion which one are you saying now the 4. 6876 the one just under the highlighted 4. 6876 yeah half a mil he's adding another 1.7 top 1.7 a quarter mil yep right we'll recommend a quarter and I'm suggesting half half and we can work with that and then bring it back and see how it looks but I do need to know everything that you want looked at so when we come back I can have all of that detail ready and let you know the impact yeah in addition to what we've already discussed in in the prior meetings now any others I mean how much do you want to to give to streets if you do want to give more to streets out of this additional increase that he's proposing you know and so we can email that to you yes please all right yes so we can have everything that everybody wants to incorporate move around and then we can come back and and set the millage on the 17th because I do have to submit forms by August 2nd the goal is to get them in there before August 26 I mean July 26 so okay we can do that all right I'd appreciate it so I guess we canable it we can table it all right so what I would what I would suggest is any changes you want to make to the budget that you get those to blanch um and y'all need to pick a number on what you know obviously a lot of that increase in the millage is going to be for the firefighter so what do you you pick a number there too because that's so you're saying not to set the milit rate tonight no correct because the one important thing is that um that this Council five to zero agrees on the milit rate no well is at this well I have to recalculate what oh May previous one may I what I have to recalculate based on the 4678 it might it might it might be because it indicates whether we have to have two-thirds Vote or what it tells me whether we have to have full majority or what so when I recalculate it I'll let you know based on the one that we're presenting tonight it requires four to one two3 so I'm saying but I'm asking that I I think it's in in in the best interest of our taxpayers that it should be a 5 to zero that we all agree to the military you can't ask for that unless I I have to go by what is required I know what's required but um that's what I'm I'm yeah it's been that way traditionally and I like to see it that way because um it it's to the benefit of the taxpayers it wasn't last last time so we had was the last 3-2 vote we had to go back and re so no it wasn't yeah it was what 32 and then yes came back 41 or was it five I think commiss came back and voted that's the part the point of having five up here yeah it's okay if we don't all agree okay well we'll try hopefully we we when we get everybody's input and additional items Let's see we appreciate you guys' time and efforts on this okay soorry I I appreciate the explanation and U um so we're looking to table it tonight yes ma'am and bring it back on the 17th and from now to the 17th is to be able to kind of down to get your information I think the mayor was about to give a deadline on that information because yeah I'd like to have it I mean well yeah we need to have before we she's got to do the I'd like to have it Friday yes about 5:00 on Friday just so we've got you know and obviously any departments that you need just run it through Jacob if you got any questions um on a particular expense just get it to Jacob he'll get it to the the uh the right party and then we'll and he'll he'll uh get that information on the blanch to to recalculate the the entire budget so and remember that this millage is not this is just general funds it's got nothing to do with with with uh garbage water Wastewater or reclaim water so this is strictly the general funds budget nothing to do with sanitation police fire General admin parks and wack that's it that's it that's it yes yeah and that's where I it's within that that I saw some cuts that I feel can occur and I think what the mayor is alluding to you still need to decide how you want to handle um fund 401 the Enterprise fund the one that's in the deficit as well that's the utility that's the utility and that was the one I was asking you yes did we ever use the Utility Fund to balance no our not to balance no we we we gave General money to sanitation we gave money to where sanitation we gave General Revenue last year of Sanitation when the fire when the garbage trucks blew up I think that we have we have a transfer yes we have a transfer from the the Enterprise funds to the general fund for HR shared cost shared cost yeah so it's more of a workers comp Medical all that shared cost and that that amount has stayed the same for the past three to four years I know this may been here because when right before I got here they raised the the the transfers to over a million doll a million dollars extra every year which was depleting the utilities funds to to prop up the general funds so we we we stopped raising that number and then we B also reduced Ian we didn't talk about it but I know we reduced our overall indebtedness what is our indebtedness we're down to it's real low right about now it's about a million our our our capital I mean our our principal and interest now is I reduced at $2 and half million dollar a year so $2 and half million do a year now is going to General funds that that weren't there when I got here yeah yes that's not being used to pay off debt so that has increased and the 6 point round 6.7 that is transferred from the utility funds to the general fund um RAF tillers look has a cost allocation analysis that was done in 2021 and at that time the differential was about 700 and something thousand so it hasn't been updated but that was based on 2021 and as we know cost has gone up so I'm sure that we're probably way below what is actually costing right because the utility is an ongoing expense espec I want to be able to make sure that M uh our directed deal that has enough for streets which is very important he I mean the presentation he made last night he's in a deficit of 5.6 million and that doesn't come from the Utility Fund that would have to come just like I said we're transferring 3.5 million because that revenue is kind of stagnated at this point that's why we increased that transfer so it would be the additional amount being transferred from the general fund which is where I think I thought commissioner um Smith caught on that you know he suggested that we increase the millage to by 05 versus 0.25 to help support that to give additional funds to the street fund as well as you know additional funds for the firefighter Union so that's that's what I understood his motion or his recommendation to be to help support the street Fund in regards to the Enterprise fund itself the 401 fund the water fund we have a 10% rate increase reflected now what I shared with you earlier in order to balance that budget that is being asked for as it is right now we would have to have a 40% increase increase those rates excuse when could we increase those rates October 1st okay what was due by July 1st what rate increase was due by July 1 that was storm the storm water assessment that goes through the trim process evidently to Chuck vck handled that okay all right yeah and if you wanted to increase it would it had to be submitted by July 1 so Friday we need to have all of our requests in and then Wednesday the 17th we will set a militate assuming that we're all agreeable or the majority or whoever may be is agreeable so we just need to make sure we've got that whether it's a unanimous or four one vote yeah I will let you know I will let you know I'll recalculate both of them and let you know all right well Cliff sheeper since we got you here is anything else you want to add to the on the budget or on the chart no um no just I I sent you a few emails um and so if you w have anything to report there were I'm trying to remember any of them that had questions for me I was copying on a lot of them but I don't know if I was had any questions for me one was the CRA the bylaws oh oh yeah I can give you an update on that um at least as far as we've gotten so far we don't have bylaws per se that I've been able to determine but we do have a resolution that was adopted uh as a part of an ordinance I think ordinance number 12 8 if that's not mistaken and it has certain things in it's not full set of bylaws but it says for example um the mayor is the chair of the CRA it says how often you're supposed to meet it has some some basic details that you might find in a set of bylaws but they're not bylaws per se so there's nothing else I think the other question you ask is who has authority to hire or not hire employees regarding the CRA the um that particular document that I'm talking about I'm send all of you does not have that information so right now unless we find something else we would defer to the Charter and I would believe that would be the responsibility of the mayor but I want to confirm because that's generally how hiring works yeah because I I requested the C the bylaws for the CRA for eille uh that that yours that may not be a good example because there's some confusion about that but I'll find what we have and I'll send them to you okay so as a CRA board let me get this clear as a CRA board we sit Commissioners and the mayor we sit as a different body right so in reality is is there one person in charge of this whole body or do are we all equal in this body because we don't sit as a mayor and commissioner no you said as a chairman and a board and so in that regard you're equal in terms of the decision making but the question the thing that makes it a little blurry is the hiring thing because that's obviously something very specifically in a strong mayor in the actual government CRA is a sub agency if you will it's supposed to be a a dependent agency or a special district because it's dependent on the the existence of the government to which it serves but but it's a separate deal so the one thing that the document which is sort of rules but it doesn't call itself bylaws says is it says the mayor's chair it says that there will be two members that are one from the county and one from the city that's a citizen so it's a seven member body it says those two parties serve at the pleasure of the appointing body so for example the county rep serves at the pleasure of the county the city rep serves at the pleasure of you all um I'm just going from memory of some of the things that are in there but but it doesn't have a a lot of details say it has to meet at least once a year you know that sort of stuff um it but it's not like uh this is who has the most power this is how all decisions are made because my concern was that um when James hit um had put in his papers to Res um not resign um to retire right talk about the ex direct for almost two months and still we have no one you know that's overseeing it then eventually I learned it was Bobby how um but well let me explain that part again this this document I'm talking about which is in this ordinance says that the CRA has the authority to hire an executive director but if you look through it further and and Mr uh Smith can verify this it says that the Community Development Department of which Bobby how is involved and Jean and various other people are involved uh will provide as necessary assistance and so um there's an argument that he made and maybe that was why Jim had sort of had the role de facto I don't don't really know how he was picked but that that's why he was sort of the acting executive director could you hire somebody separate from that I believe you could uh but I think in terms of the way it's set up now it says that the city essentially will provide whatever administrative support and whatever assistance is needed through the Community Development Department whoever that means and if that means Bobby okay I just don't know who y'all are going to pick but that's how as you read the whole of the documents that I've seen so far that's how it's set up okay is there any way to kind of create a policy or sure I mean obviously the 1228 or was is from 1993 it's a you know how how many years ago I think I have a son older than younger than that yeah um okay so is that something that I oh you'll have that this week I we we we were gathering all the documents to try to see and track down was there something else because I wanted to be sure before I say there aren no bylaws that there really aren't any bylaws but so far they haven't surfest if there are anything this this ordinance is the closest we can come sear that's how that's the reason why I had contact because I know they have a c and it's pretty active so I did get a copy from them and it is bylaws that you actually created I've worked on some of them but there's been confusion about what was adopted and what's not and and there they have their own CRA lawyer somebody who you guys may know some of you may know Greg Jackson so it's it's not the ideal situation okay um all right that and um you did respond to me but blind copy me regarding the city Charter when I had asked if you can send those amendments to our commissioner Anderson and we learned today that we have two Andersons in our personnel and for some reason her emails are going to the other Anderson so there was a letter missed in her uh email address her yeah in her email so um I just sent it to Robert but you sent blind copy me I sent to Our IT person and he is correcting that okay we actually have two n Andersons we actually have two okay so but she's this is news to me but now I know I'll try to forget to like most of your emails I haven't received emails okay this yeah so so when I sent links to for the training you never got the links I never know well that's I who somebody's getting links say why is this guy sending to me this right so okay so know okay that was the what was the other email that I had sent to you um I don't know um but I appreciate you have answered me with all the emails but I just yes ma'am the CRA was the was important I'll have official answer be covered to everybody by the end of this week okay thank you all right anybody else public comment going on down Rod Olson Rod Olson 3156 Rolling Hills Lane I want to thank particularly the staff for all the time and efforts that goes into the budget process no one wants to see increases in military utility rates the city's ability to ensure safe timely accurate and quality services we need to provide the city with the proper tools budgets must be need-based not funding based needs first prioritize weed out the unnecessary and then address out of fund sad to say that only police fire it parks and wreck and finance are the only departments that answered affirmatively to my question with regard to they present a budget that would beat all of our needs today and going forward I'm concerned disappointed frustrated and now understand that our budgeting process is not what it should be at every city council meeting we redirect funds due to failure to budget appropriately reserves should be for True emergencies and events beyond our control Commissioners receiving the budget information on the eve of these budget workshops does not allow time for adequate review to dissect and to formulate questions inconsistency and what was presented at these these uh workshops is unreal day one Parks and Rec proposes three full-time and two part-time people and an office to see what's going to be a total of 12 12 Tennis and pickle ball courts it's ludicrous then day two stat we find out that we're not requesting staff water sewer Street sidewalk repairs and maintenance that we need due to quote funding limitations end quote then we find out that 35% of our city assets are past projected lifespan utility bills don't cover what our cost for service action plan in One initial projected millage rate should be allow space for of our needs two departments that did not submit a needs-based budget submit that by end of day Friday mayor you must have read my notes uh also before this finalized rate I present all the asset life expectancy current status and planned replacement schedule before hiring the CRA Grant staff member that we discussed we need to research what other cities are doing as I pointed out earlier some cities have discarding it because of all the requirements for the grants is not worth the time or effort five immediately Institute a live water meter check for any significant jumping utilization I would say at 33% more month over month so we can avoid the $2600 bill that one of our one of our residents got by November 6 present a camp wewa break even plan seven by January 15th uh 2025 put together a 2026 budget year plan that will allow for Commissioners tax players adequate time to review and have input into the process eight future and police fire stations up north we ought to look at maybe ought to be one campus I'm not sure I would think that that would be more cost effective nine immediately create the citizens committee to look into each and every budget line item and what goes into it so we can get this done by January 15 present for the following year so we have an accurate timely and we can we've got wonderful assets in the community that come in and say hey look this doesn't look right and ask questions uh we need to have a realistic fact-based budget to plan cover costs I have a number of questions as well drop dead date as I understand is 82 for the initial proposal is that right yes that's when it has to be submitted the dr420 forms have to be submitted to um the Department of Revenue and property appraisal's office and then the final drop dead date for millage rate that's it that's it that's it that's the one date that's its one date okay um and does the city conduct monthly Department had R Callum p&l reviews going through every line item what's over what's under and make adjustments we do provide monthly reports to the Departments bonly monthly monthly reports is there a meeting where you go over I'm used to hate my p&l meetings but not as of yet but we we do plan have that needs to be done um two other qu three other questions neighbor informed me that the city staff pensions include overtime pay hence their pensions could be equate to more than their General salary is that true question I apologize a neighbors informed me and I've not had a chance to verify but that's why I'm asking the question that pensions include overtime pay so if Rod Olen retires I can be walking home with my overtime with more of a check than when I was a staff member yes yeah pinion includes overtime okay all right and then when can we expect the forensic a of take place in approximate time to learn the results we know that yet well we still need if we want to bring it up we still need a council member to sit on the evaluation committee I did request commissioner Nesta he you said yes in the beginning and then you later said you said you don't think you should for various reasons so I want to make sure there was no impropriety or image of impri since I've been pushing this the most make sure that it's on the up and up so it's my understand we've gotten six yeah round six I right now yes a round six my propos bids for it so yeah okay and the status of the charter review oh we just spoke on on the I just asked okay um what happened was that with the election and our new commissioner uh commissioner Anderson she did not have the Amendments that we had agreed on from the workshop so that was supposed to be emailed to her and because of the mix up with the her email address she did not receive it she's actually receiving it today all right thank you and then then finally is just the aspect of whatever we do with the fire department every other department is looking at what happens there and I come with a labor relations background the last thing I want to deal with is more unions so whatever we do in that area we need to be we need to reflect what we're going to do with the other departments thank you Roger back at 7 West Main Street I know you guys have a tough decision to make but just kind of sitting here listening you know the past couple days on the things that's going to be needed um it definitely makes sense to increase the millage rate to where if you can kind of cover a lot of these costs that seems like from this proposal we're kind of lagging and this kind is gonna get bigger and bigger over time I feel you know me as a as a resident I would like to try to eat at that cost now as opposed to two or three years from now the millage rate is going to definitely be something much higher than we expected so you know um I'm thankful that commissioner um Smith kind of mentioned the half Mill But there again if the full meal is something that we need to look at to make sure we can start to eat at some of these things that are kind of dragging along because I know we talking about trans invitation they didn't have any funding um in their particular so it's just kind of we're got to pay taxes regardless right so if I'm going to pay tax I want to make sure my money is working for otherwise it's like what's the point so I know I get tired of seeing potholes in the streets um missing sidewalks so if we're g to if we're going to pay I definitely want to make sure I see my money to work so that's just my two cents but you know I think we're making the right decision to kind of make to look at all avenues um and not be afraid to hey increase the millage you know I don't know that actually might be per home but I know there's something maybe that you can put to simplify say for every 100,000 this is what that looks like so that lay person can say this is what the cost may be well half a mill cost a $300,000 home 150 bucks a year so you know when you look at the overall because I'm looking at two ways you get the millage increase but then she's saying a 40% increase in user rate right so you know is a way to balance because that user weight you're going to feel that every single month if I understand that correctly where the tax at least you kind of can project hey I need to have this saved up or to pay that so that's just kind of my my analysis of everything thank you Jeff tyer 1120 leg Drive I had no problem pay paying another $150 $200 a year in a millage rate to get our city where it needs to be status quo is not getting it we need to start at the highest millage rate that you can until we can figure out how we're going to pay for all these projects all you had to do was sit and watch last night's budget hearing and listening to Public Works and needs that they have the needs that Chief McKinley has over there with our growing community and the fire department uh to the fire department the fire contract should have already been completed then you wouldn't be wondering what are we going to have to do as far as the budget to get this done you need to get you have need to have a meeting tomorrow and get this done before the 17th and get the fire contract done with the Union then you'll have an idea what you're working with it's ridiculous that it's taken this long to get that done construction cost on everything is going up fire stations we know that with fire station 6 we've seen the construction cost on that double on these wastewater treatment plants everything's going up so we need to get ahead of the game and start thinking about the future of this city not right now start thinking about our kids think about the people that are moving into this city it's growing every day get ahead of the game and let's get this done anybody else all right well thanks everybody for coming out for --------- e e call the City Council budget Workshop to order commissioner Smith we give us the prayer and the pledge please sir our heavenly father it's once again that you have allowed us the opportunity to come and be Servants of this community we ask the Lord that we prepare our budget hearings and that you would continue to lead us and guide us that we'll be good stewards of all the resources you're providing for us in order this place could be a better place to live working to play in that's son in Jesus name we pray amen amen to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right Chief W all right well good afternoon almost evening now mayor Commissioners members of the public uh Sean WM fire chief here to present the 2023 or excuse me 2425 fiscal budget year um request for the fire department um one of the one of the things we want to start out with is a gratitude I think one of the one of the most important things as we've passed through these past couple years and and and five years during my 10 years we've had a lot of improvements a lot of good things that have happening at the fire department um one of those as we look again at the Gratitude is our comparison across five very relatable fire departments related to us and size and structure and things like that um one of the one of the biggest things you know our population as we're going to talk about in a few minutes is steadily growing um our area wise you know we are uh 35 almost 36 square miles um compared to a lot of other municipalities they're almost half that size um but as we move forward we've established a very good foundation we have a lot of uh firemen in place a lot of uh stations in place and as we continue to grow and as we're going to show that we need to make sure that we continue where we're at so again this is just the comparison of where we're at call volume Trends over the past 10 years you can see there definitely have uh exponentially grown over the past 10 years this last year were about eight call eight call difference from the year before um that's the actual record from ESO which is our reporting um shows it still at 82% Em I'm sorry Fire EMS 82% EMS and 18% fire related calls so a total of 9,989 calls over over 2023 um of those average calls per station station one still definitely our heaviest call volume at 10.53 calls per shift Station 2 is 4. 59 uh Station 3 is 4.01 station 4 is 3.53 and station 5 is at 3.4 station TI at 1.09 which is uh um almost doubled since its opening again as the as we see the growth in the in the construction that's going down in the area that's going to continue to grow it's kind of a different breakdown it shows are percentages per station as well just a different way of looking at it but station one's still running close to 40% of our calls because it is the densus area our response times again response times include turnout time which in other words when the alarm goes off to the time they go responding in the trucks and the travel time our average uh response time for First scen on scene is now at 5 minutes and 22 seconds and again we talked about growth within the city and uh these numbers were combed compiled by the uh city of apaka community de development department and right now currently we have 4,614 dwelling units under construction and a 2.7 person per household that's a population increase of 12,000 close to 13,000 people that are is currently under construction total dilling un plannned or under construction again is a 7,418 which is going to give us our total increase of 20,000 over the next few years total square footage which we definitely consider in the fire department under construction currently is 2.5 million also planned in the future is close to 8 million in non-residential these are warehouses um you know things of that major commercial structures this is uh again compiled by the uh with the help of Mike S with the U it Department their GIS kind of shows our our developments and where they're happening um the ones in the teal color are the commercial versus the lime green is the residential type construction so as as we can see our growth is definitely happening South towards station 6 and the future growth coming up in north side Northwest side for future goth of station 7 um this was provided by shimberg also through the Community Development Department it does show by 2025 they have a population of 63,000 peoplein the city we are still currently in ISO class one this is the state of florid is for this year um again we've had this and maintain this since 2004 so this is the state of Florida the number of iso class one departments is 50 um this is um on a national level out of the 47,000 departments that are rated we are still class one which is top 1.07% in the entire country getting into the budget now um starting with 3100 one of our um increases with our normal key changes over year to year is is the addition of um the clinician review we did start last year with our department clinician it's been very successful um we're actually adding on this year an additional screening where she's actually going to look at each of those um evaluations we do on an annual basis which is something that NFPA is now requiring to make sure that everyone is is fit for Duty not only physically but mentally um 3,400 U one of our B big asss this year is a arrival live traffic control program um we are responding to more and more responses on our highways um getting busier and busier um what this does it actually provides what's called an attenuator um an attenuator is something that's designed or something even it's either passive or this is active in other words we can this is mobile we can move this where we need it to respond to but it basically allows for um it's a road safety device designed to absorb the colliding vehicles of Velocity energy and bring it to a safe stop so those are the things you see along the highways but buckets of water or the things that are designed to absorb that well what this company does is anytime we respond onto these highways 24 hours a day seven days a week they're going to provide these vehicles for us not only signs and things like that but the the picture to the right is actually an attenuator it will sit and Stage behind our units operating on the highways to ensure their safety so if something does happen we have an impact that hit that vehicle before they run into our vehicles and this this does hit hit home for us is we did have one of our district Chief vehicles that was hit um within a year a year ago on one of the highways I have a quick question on this one yes is that inclusive of the truck or is it just that apparatus on the back that it connect and the Manning say that again and the Manning so at people who will respond for this but it's the total truck it's not just something that hooks up to a truck we have correct okay yep Total Truck nice thank you y continuing uh with the Chiefs uh fire chief's office 4300 um we did uh a 53 $1,000 increase again um utilities have gone up substantially this is kind of the market we're in now again the trends we're seeing so we're asking for a total of $200,000 for utility services along the same lines office supplies we've doubled that this year because we're trending at almost having to spend that this year so we're going up and the cost of everything is kind of going up operating supplies for the fire chief's office again um one of our most uh let me make sure I this yeah station supplies again same same trending you know they're going up um substantially as far as cost and just the cost of doing business the again this covers all of our um station supplies supplies for the stations cleaning equipment um toilet paper or things like that so that's kind of how everything comes out of that uh training you're going to see a substantial increase in the chief's Office training what we did um we were finding throughout the past couple years we had the training funds the $1,200 um per firef Fire split between EMS and fire or suppression um and during the middle of um the year we would have someone who would become become a paramedic or move divisions so instead of um having to worry about all that we just reassigned all the training into the chief's office so that's why you see that um $172,800 increase which includes a 1,200 for each firefighter uh two other things that we're excited about uh leadership development classes um a company called fully involved Consulting he's a gentleman who is actually a battalion chief of South Florida um he's going to come and actually offer to 47 of our firefighters a leadership weekl long leadership training um also get them uh exposed to different things like that and he's done things not just within the fire service but outside of fire service he's uh held with Harley-Davidson of of all companies it was a a big company he helped with a lot of leadership training with that so we are offering that to our department um gasway situational awareness um it's Online Academy this is in for our entire department that deals with all those types of how to have those those uh not just leadership training but situational awareness how how to grow as as a leader as a whole um which I think is important for our entire department so those are two things we've added in the fire chiefs uh training so uh 2120 moving into suppression again one of our big things that happened over this uh this past year was a a very big increase in our repair and maintenance of our fire trucks um we've had about a 95,000 increase due to cost and again this also um um this actually is for building and maintenance as a whole across the across all of our buildings and a big thing was ask for the re repainting of the training center um we as asked for it last year the quote came back substantially higher than we expected it's actually 60,000 now to repaint the training center and the training Tower itself so that's a big increase for repair and maintenance of building and Equipment before you go yes ma'am you said that it was uh approved last year with the last fiscal we had monies in there to paint the training center but we only had $10,000 how much did you have last year 10,000 okay so we're asking for 60 this year because the quote came back at 60 so for so we are bringing 10,000 forward from last year what what did you do with the 10,000 that was sitting there it's just it pretty much just goes it gets absorbed back in please make sure your mic is on oh yeah the only thing we roll is capital projects is he's rebud getting at the higher amount so he won't start the project until next year okay so the 10,000 would just go into the reserves okay okay okay so 4 650 uh vehicle maintenance This was um I was alluding to before we've had a $100,000 increase due to cost of repairs an apparatus um that was looking at our Trends this year we've had two fir trucks that have had major repairs that we got uh kicked off the year with that starting with that which uh tends to happen we do have several on order as you know that we're waiting for we want to make sure that we keep our our current Fleet up and operational so that's a substantial increase there again operating supplies um uh $231,000 increase for a total of 1.1 million for our uh operational cost some of the uh new initiatives we looking at for these um last year if you remember we actually added the tech gen 51 gear which is a lighter weight gear um for responding to incidents outside of structural firefighting I.E uh brush fires they can wear it on on they can wear it on um um Auto extrications rope rescues confined space things like that where they don't have to wear the thermal uh protection allows for a little bit cooler response well this year we added the specific boots uh to complete that compliment um and uh we actually just received the tech gen 51 gear last week so we're something we're going to be able to roll out make sure that everyone has access to that with that also we're also adding a traffic incident management gear and accessories uh that's a any traffic incidents we're updating all of our safety vests uh we're also adding in different accessories as far as cones specific uh dot um you know required cones and uh replacing replacing our all rolled stuff another thing we're also adding is Rehabilitation stations uh to both of our district Chief vehicles and Captain Vehicles so we respond to an incident they're going to be able to automatically deploy these types of things so it includes a tent cool ERS fans benches so when our firefighters are uh in the middle of a fire and they do go to rehab they're actually going to be able to um immediately have that access to that the rehabilitation um um tools another big thing we're adding personal Escape systems uh these are bailout systems for our firefighters for multi-story structures it's $882,000 $163 this will give access to every firefighter to have basically it's a life safety rope that is attached to them at all times um and it's uh we're going to obviously do some significant training on how to use it um and when that would apply but something for specifically for multi-story structures as we know we're adding a lot of those in apartments and things like that to our area um another thing we're adding the fire station refurbished upgrade projects again upgrading all of our stations I believe Ry went into some of the you know significant improvements we're making with that this is all of the the appliances the beds things like that to go into the station so that's where our budget comes in the 291,000 is for those equipments needed for the upgraded projects for the station refurbish quick question on that one sry to interrupt again yeah does is that inclusive of like eyewash stations ice makers things like that some of those are separated out okay yeah there like um we just ordered actually the eyewash stations and the ice makers we have our temporary ones that are in place now we're actually ordering the the commercial grade um that line somewhere else yes okay perfect thank you do the improvements um we had approved a few improvements for certain uh firehouses were they done during this this fiscal year yeah yeah there's certainly there's a there's a list a list that what Rally's been working through and I know there are certain improvements that are going through what we're talking about doing for next year is like station station three for example you know we we really looked at it we're or station four excuse me we looked at it we that that's really going to have to be a complete overhaul you know we went into the idea of where we can make certain adjustments but now this year we're 24 25 budget we're planning on just completely cutting it starting from scratch making separate rooms making air locks in other words when you walk from the the bunker room out into the bay we want some sort of vestibule that separates those two and with that airlock system that keeps them completely separated if that makes sense so we're really ramping up what we're doing and a lot of those are currently in the conceptual plans and they're supposed to go to architect architectural plans within the month and then that's for and starting I believe we're starting that for this year and we're going to complete station four by by the end of next year with with plans for other stations coming on as well do you know how much and start interrup I'm sorry no to how much did we budget or how much have we budgeted for station 4 to kind of do all those that would have to be honestly a Radley question okay I is it's in here somewhere though not on our budget it's on his yes okay this is this again this is just we we budgeted for what physically goes in the stations I got you thank you and what about the updated kitchens because I went into a couple of the station houses and they still don't have their kitchens which they were promised that with station two when I went there right again all that is being that's been the conceptual plans again the plans so we're we're we're stepping back and re revamping everything and really coming in and fix not even like upgrading stuff we're almost redoing a lot of we're redoing most of the stations remodeling them so it's it's going to be a bigger project and again right now it's in the conceptual plans getting ready to go to the AR architectural designs but didn't we didn't we approve those last year yeah year I think what the amount we had was 150,000 and that's not going to cover what we're asking for and again Radley has more of that and I think you asked this question at one of the previous Council meetings and he supposed to come back with an update for you guys on all the fire stations it is in some money is in the current 2024 budget so we can get that information from ratley and send it out and get a status update because I think this question came up at one of the previous um yeah because you know with the 15 days of hope we got I've got to see some of the station and I remember that we had already approved some of the remodeling especially in the kitchens correct um all right so that we can get that information for you okay but was already presenting his budget and I don't remember the current year budget so station four remodeling in some fire stations I can't remember whether it's station 4 is or is not but it may be included in that but I'll get the information from rley it was only like 150,000 of last year that we were going to do station 4 there was a design an architect came in but I think to the point that was made is that there's much bigger Renovations but to commissioner Smith's point I don't remember hearing a specific line item to overhaul station if the additional funds were included in 2025 is what you're asking cor yes okay I'll find out and I'll take a look okay all right uh suppression training again as we know we took like I mentioned before we took the bulk of the training funds um from 2120 and 2130 and put them in 2110 um so that we can take them all it but we did add in uh lexip pool officer development and this is something Chief nap on it specifically for officer development it's an online access um lexip pole is actually um Gordon Graham is a a famous guy in the fire service if you have never uh Googled him or watched any his YouTube videos he's he's definitely a foundational leader um for the risk management in particular was one of his uh he created lexipol so it's it's again it's a good good uh pull that our officers are going to be able to have access to and and increase their their uh knowledge and training as officer development codes um suppression uh we have a $130,000 increase again the fire station uh Renovations this is something we added in this year separate from um what we talked about before for the the the equipment goes inside this is in is designed when we do go to renovate station 4 or whatever station work on at the time we're going to have to have temporary housing um so that's something that was established here that we're going to be able to move our guys and working with AJ from facilities and orchestrating some of that where they're is currently station 4 that's being worked on obviously the Bays can still be utilized but having somewhere that temporary housing that's what this is assigned for the conx boxes um Chief na another thing he asked with seven more boxes they going to be able to add a third floor to our existing prop that's out there gets us a lot more um you know availability things we can practice things like that so that's $80,000 for those additional boxes equipment and Machinery again this is our depreciation schedule um as you can see here is includes all of our pump Pumpers and Aerials um this does not include our brush our I'm sorry our Tower truck is currently on order just because we haven't received it yet obviously it's still um going to come in sometime next year but it does uh show where we're at so again um last year we replaced uh or a few when we got Engine 4 that replaced old engine 11 um 22 23 we have an engine in production from that year that we're supposed to receive uh within this uh fiscal year and start being able to put some of that uh equipment on that that's also in this budget and also last year we asked for additional engine um engine three which is also in production we've had the uh we're going to have our kickoff meeting for that so we have two engines that are currently on the way we're asking for a third one request this year for the fiscal year 2425 which is going to replace engine 11 so again our total ask this year and and a couple other um vehicles but that is going to uh cost 1 Point $3 million for that for equipment and Machinery so I'm sorry so you're asking for another apparatus a fire truck yes another fire truck two actually two so a brush truck and a fire truck and so if we put this in this year's budget when does that fire truck up it'll be at least a year and a half to two year that's they're so far behind we're working that's why the the one um again we received uh Engine 4 2022 the one we're actually at that we asked for in 22 23 we're getting ready to receive in the next four four months and we have to pay for it in advance oh yes okay yeah it has to be 100% funded y so uh last year you remember we finished out and replaced all of the pumps on the brush trucks um one of the things when we were working with uh Fleet Maintenance and and things like that the our brush trucks were actually um the the oldest one we have is in the 80s uh one of the new the newest one we have is in the '90s um and something that um Charlie from Fleet recommended that because of just now they getting parts to even fix some of those trucks and and really one of the things we also wanted to add was the extended cap onto the brush trucks now that we have uh more more manpower and apparatus so we do respond someone will be able to ride in the back of that vehicle um instead of just deploying two people in the brush truck so um we've asked for one we're going to replace those over the next three years uh to uh for all three of our brush trucks the uh again like I mentioned engine 11 replacement the apparat will replace engine three as a front run and the current engine three will replace engine 11 so that kind of how that trickles down and works out but that cost for a new fire truck is $900,000 for the truck alone that does not include the equipment do we donate the older apparatuses do we donate them or do we sell them forward do we get anything for them no believe it or not most of them we've held on to for like right now currently we have one that's down at the training center you know that we want to see for training for training okay yeah when we that's something we can look at the last one we got rid of was Old Tower 2 which is in 70s you know that was you know obsolete for sure so that's something went to auction and you know things like that that's something the fleet handles as a disposal and depending on what you you know um something else we added that uh we're excited about is a pump operations panel training simulator again we're talking about wear and tear on vehicles uh this simulator actually replicates and when we get this uh this up and running it'll it'll look like just one of our pump exactly like one of our pumps and it's a b basically computer programmer big simulator that allows us to simulate operations or pumping operations utilizing this versus us utilizing a real truck and saving some of that wear and care so that's uh about $100,000 for [Music] that so let me just ask you what are you training with right now without this our our our vehicles so Reserve apparatus and okay yeah y so 2130 Emergency Medical Services um again there's been an increase in The Biohazard Waste Disposal um that's our stair cycle contracts and um anytime obviously any Sharps anything things like that we actually collect them from the public as well not just our internal use but external use as well um and our Striker equipment um is increased so we went up 48,000 due to those two factors uh rentals and leases um we went up 30,000 or oxygen cylinder rentals for we're asking for a total of 50,000 for that this year when station six does open it will have a um Cascade system there so we will this is a temporary um thing for this year once six opens we will have be able to back that down again to allow for us to fill our own oxygen um repairs and maintenance of building equipment again is a 13,000 increase again just to uh the cost with with the things associated with that vehicle maintenance again um we saw a spike and increase in our um repairing of our auses this year so we're asking uh to go up to a total of $250,000 and that's just based on our Trends from this year and what we're spending and what we're asking for um training again uh we increased that we did take again like I said earlier the uh firefighter training funds and put them on into uh 2110 but this where we've increased slightly so that we can actually pay and cover for um all of our Advanced cardiac life support our BLS which is basic life support all of our certifications are required to maintain and also our state certification cost as well and this still does include the paramedic reimbursement for all of our firefighters who want to go to paramedic school right now what what do you um reimbursing with pyromatic the paramedic school what's the what how are you reimbursing what's the so they they come to us they want to go to school they present us with their bill and we pay it it depends on what school they're going to I mean average is 8 to 10,000 per firefighter so that's what if someone if one of them do they pay up front and then they come back when they successfully complete the program they submit now we pay up front excuse me now we pay up front so now you pay up front so depending on what school they go to you pay the school yep right yeah and it's $10,000 on average yeah8 to 10,000 is what mic school cost okay y um operating supplies um we did have again an increase just to rise of cost and also the addition of EMS simulation equipment for training uh we call it the mullage kits which is uh replicates some of our wounds and things we see in the field um another big thing we increased and we're having to uh our active shooter Personnel protective equipment is actually um it expires um and so that's something we have to replace so we've added that this year to our operating supplies so total of $47,700 again this is our um depreciation schedule on the EMS side it does show um again where we're at with our current ambulances the uh the good news is we're making Headway we did receive um Amos 3 about a month and a half ago um that's one we ordered in 2021 so that's how long it's taking us to get these amoses in fact it is a 2022 vehicle this is taking that long to get through the process of ordering and we're not the only ones feeling this it's all all across our definitely our region and the country as a whole um we do have uh one more that's coming that we actually ordered in 2223 um also asked for two last year or their current budget year for 23 24 so we have actually three more we're waiting on um as they work their way through the processes um and we're actually adding another one this year so that's our request this year for another ambulance uh to replace but this will allow us to keep us um within our useful life and making sure that we're rotating those ules and getting what we need so again what we're asking for is the amulance and Equipment uh for $375,000 out of Ems for Machinery uh two positions we're asking for uh to right off the getg go October over is a fire safety inspector uh request we're asking for um two civilian fire inspectors um and again one of the one of the biggest things as we as we shown earlier the growth that's coming in the new construction that's coming in um currently we have uh Captain hfield who heads Our Life Safety Division who is uh constantly out there working um getting some getting this this uh these projects complete and we also have the Ste increase of our annual inspections you know we do about close to 2,000 annual inspections a year on the existing um existing buildings we have out there so by hiring these two uh inspectors that will work directly under uh captain holderfield we're going to be able to take care of all those existing inspections which allow allows Captain holderfield to concentrate on new construction and pl review and things like that um so we're asking for two of those um and that's the pay grade done here but again as we know that uh with the rise of new construction and the steady increase it's it's going to cause uh um you know a lot of extra work um and another thing it kind of centralizes where the inspections are coming from right now we have our our shift Personnel who do complete those and Captain holderfield has to follow up on all those things if we have three people who are concentrated specifically on that I think it's going to make them much more proficient in a you know um now without how are you dealing with the fire safety inspections our shf our shift Personnel are doing those are they all certified yes and how many I mean how many U I guess dwellings or commercial so we do 19 close to 2,000 in inspections a year and growing because then you know as we increase obviously that's something not that's just existing not including new construction and new development that's coming in and is it done every year for the same facilities and what why are they classified civilian I guess that's well so the to be a an inspector you do not have to be a certified firefighter um I think and I think the importance of this is to have two people who that's their bread and butter their like city of aoi Orlando utilizes a lot of just these types of inspectors um and again it's a different it gives them a different perspective I think you know that's that's their main goal our firefighters will still be responsible for going out and looking at the buildings for pre-planned purposes um again separate that from inspections that's where they go at and look at it from a tactical standpoint okay where's our exits where's our our suppression systems things like that so the having the civilian inspectors out there really again helps them kind of have their illumination their specific job task and I won't go to the police because I'll try and take their money any any further questions for the chief so total of what you're asking for um What's the total that you're asking for with all the stuff with everything that you have I believe it was and she said they gave us these numbers are so tiny you going to do it by division yeah sure yeah cuz you don't have a grand and you do have a well she don't have I I do have the she the numbers are like I can't even see them okay for for 211 right the total is So tin the total is 3,440 1990 if I'm looking at okay that's 2110 for 2120 the total is 10 million3 36256 I'm sorry 10 million 336 256 okay and for 2130 over H is the total is 12, 784 002 for the grand total of 26 mil 560 560 26 million 560 I can't see it 26 million or 20 it's 28 million 28 well I'm blind better than I can line we all have it I know that but I can't see it that's why I'm asking I don't know I see I'm sorry I'm still gonna go with no 26 oh 26 26 56448 and I thank you it's just that these numbers are so tiny that even these glasses are not helping me thank you okay where are you seeing 26 at 26 million that was general fund total you're adding in the impact fee fund the impact fee fund is another million direct me to the page please the impact fee fund is on page 11 of 11 the total for just the three that he just presented is on page 10 of 11 265 6448 okay okay you follow me okay you got a another 1.9 for the impact Fe fund okay and that of course is all related to the public safety building that we're constructing the design and all that work going towards that okay and thank you okay you're welcome and I did get an update from Radley he will be bringing to council um for fire station 4 two and three let get it right two and three correct um the architect the architect estimates and because that's what they're waiting on they're waiting on the architect to give them the estimates and they'll come back with what that actual cost is and at that time they'll request additional funding it's needed over that 150 so it will be incorporated in the fy2 24 budget and rolled over if not completed which it probably will not be completed and that's two three and four that's fire station four two and three yes sir and he said that will be completed in the next few weeks all right anybody else if not open up to the public Dr Duran clear um you know I appreciate what the fire department is proposing and I think that the main issue is and I don't think it's Unique to the fire department I think it's Unique with this city management I watched all the other workshops yesterday and the day before and all your directors are mentioning lack of staff and lack of funding nobody wants to hear that their taxes are going up but I don't see how this is unavoidable I know that raising the millage rate is not the end of all ends and you all are employed to be creative and get the funding rather than always year after year dipping into the reserves um the poor management and leadership in this city is astounding to me what happened to the $20,000 that was allocated over a year ago for the safety signal out of station one you all approved it the money was there why is it still not done when Chief W was up here and he was talking about $110,000 that was allocated to the training center to you know paint that and this and that or whatever and then Bland says that that was put back into the general fund that doesn't go to the general fund that goes to our fire department why was it not done the same thing with the safety signal where is that money is that back in the general fund because I know it's not sitting out there on Fifth Street we also need to find out when these fire stations are being refered I hope that you guys are able to really get into the nuts and bolts of it and find out exactly what's being done because of the poor leadership and management with this city that is I mean it is ridiculous it really is I don't know who is running this show but you're not doing a very good job when money cannot be accounted for when a department asks for money to do a street signal and it's been over a year and it's still not done who is going to be held accountable for that do we held the chief accountable or do we hold you accountable for it why is it not done who dropped the ball where's the money at why is the signal still not there when we come to refurbing uh refurbishing the fire stations this is desperate we need to do this and you really need to get into because of the poor leadership and management of this city when our chief comes up here and says I want you know what is it 20 what is it $291,000 we want to make sure that he gets that money so we want to know what's being done is he replacing the cabinets and the appliances is he painting is he putting new beds in and what is he doing and give him the $291,000 we're going to budget it you approved it you approved the 20 a $20,000 he didn't get he proposed it and we didn't get it why who do we yell at who do we blame do we blame our chief or do we blame you guys sitting up here when fire chief W talks about station 4 being completed and referred in within a month come on come on we can't get a traffic signal in over a year let's be realistic when we come here and what we're asking for and what we want so we didn't get the traffic signal for over a year and we think that we're going to be able to for station 4 in a month come on we know that's not going to happen so we need like realistic expectations and realistic numbers and we also need somebody I don't know who it is is it you guys up here should we be sending you guys emails or do we need to be talking to the fire Administration when things aren't being done if you can at least answer that okay thank you okay I'm not done I don't care mayor I'm not done I don't care def Kenley and his guys and escort P me out of here we we understand what you got I don't think you do because for the two years since my son's death because of the poor management and leadership in this city you still have not fixed it you don't understand I am sick and tired of all of this happening under your watch and in my view and my son paid the ultimate twice I will not be quiet I will not be silenced not by you or anyone our chief is asking for supplies and money he asked over a year ago for the signal where is it where is it where is it how do you not know you said excuse me sir you said you are the CEO I don't care Mr R no that's call me out you said you're the CEO of this city you said it on the news you said it to all your residents you run this city and you don't know who knows I'll get you an answer tomorrow tomorrow mayor you have been mayor for this city for how long thank you thank youate I will be back I promise you you need answers and you need to dress the people that put you in that seat and my family understand you don't don't pretend like you do you take care of our firefighters they're still working without a contract who's holding that up you don't know do you know Mr Durant please R Olson 3156 ring H lame uh Chief asking you the same question that I've asked every other department head does this represent everything that you need and materials people and equipment to meet our current needs as well as our growth thank you a wood well I guess the $150,000 councilman that y'all approved last year for new stoves and stuff's going to get rolled back into the general fund is that correct 100 where's that money at BR mayor sorry whatever it is this is the sorest leadership Administration I've ever seen my 11-year-old granddaughter can take care of a budget better than this and she's only 11 and you claim to be a leader you've lied since you took office now you got the fire administrator a chief that I still don't approve but at least up here begging for money to keep the good Department going and training and you can't even answer simple question in $660,000 to paying a fire station that's wild of me a training center it ain't that big of a trading center but 10,000 went back in general fund because of y'all let it side back the money that Mr Dr sitting there talking about for the uh traffic signal out there mayor you're you take full control you said you run everyday operations here in the city and you don't know where the citizens money's going taxpayers money is just going away you blame the last Administration on losing millions of dollars or stealing it misappropriating it and how you going come in and take over and fix the budget we ain't never been such a big damn mess in our whole life till you got in here ain't nothing been straight since you came in I'm asking you councilman please what Chief Wild's asked for please adhere to it and help this department out we're getting ready to add all these people in Northwest city of aop out there we're going to need more EMS people we going to need more firefighters they're building wooden structures out there so a fire is not going to just burn and go out it's not blocked three story buildings are made out of wood you have a bunch of units respond if we have a fire out there you'll have a bunch of personnel you leave everybody in the city need without support please support Chief W and his budget and where I like to know where someone needs to answer we're at $150,000 just for the Stoves and Stuff you walk into a hell M man good [Music] luck anybody else Jeff tyer 1120 leg Drive uh apka Florida we've made some you guys have made some great strides in the last year with fire Administration and the fire fire department is uh concerning safety and uh we don't need to be taking any steps backwards with that they're really doing pretty good I was so glad to hear Chief WM get up here and ask for two civilian fire inspectors that is so important because I used to do that job myself like Captain holderfield is doing now um that's a great move to do that and I would suggest even further maybe next year ask for a third one because the growth that we're having he cannot stay on top of it and we cannot miss important details and facts with these buildings that are going up out here these multistory condos and apartments um the one thing that I would like to um address I still would like to see us moving towards that fourth firefighter to meet that national Safety standard on our fire engines and ladder trucks it was a big step with the Austin 18 to put the third firefighter on the truck I know it's a cost issue if there's a way that we can look at a step plan over the next six eight years to hire three or four or whatever we have to do each year to get that fourth firefighter on those ladder trucks and on those fire engines I know the chief has budgeted for another Tower unit out in the station five area very important thing that we have a a truck company out there and it needs to be properly staffed I think we all saw the Miami nursing home fire that was a couple of weeks ago uh City of Miami they have four firefighters on on their ladder trucks and on their fire engines and they were making ground lad rescues of the elderly coming out of those buildings we look at these multistructure multi-story structures that we're building now in this city is changing the face of our city we have to prepare for that so let's keep that in mind when we're thinking about this budget process I pray for all of you because we you got a big task ahead of you with with millage rates where we're going to find this funding for all these projects I watched last night's um president ation which was incredible and um Chief McKinley's going to get up here and he's going to request some things and we just remember that our Public Safety in this city is Priority One thank you anybody else I got a couple questions just to to follow up I just want to say thank you to all the residents that did speak I appreciate you guys giving your opinions and and and echoing your sentiments there um Chief in reference to and I wanted to say I I think it's really smart and cool that we're doing the Conex boxes I think that's smart for the multi-story buildings we're going to be possibly dealing with so I appreciate you guys doing that the um do we have any plans in the near future to do a fire station 7 Up in like the kpi is that on any Horizon absolutely yeah it's part of it's actually part of the capital Improvement plan anyways you know that that was the main again because it's taking so long to get the the additional Tower the tower truck that's why it was ordered last year because we're still going to wait another year and a half two years to get that and that's when really truly seven should start coming to fruition again uh procuring land where where it's going to go um I I truly believe I've talked to several other we need to get a study to see where it actually needs to go um something you know so we have can provide the best responses from that area um again A lot of times people think oh let's put it on the right in the middle of everything that's not how a lot of times how it works with a fire station sometimes off the beaten path is a better option so you're not like say three we're doing obviously with the p kba high speeds it's better sometimes to be so again things like that definitely in in the in I'm thinking next year is when we're really start seriously talking start planning and doing studies okay understood so 25 26 um do we want to have the conversation now of union or do we want to save that for later I think it was going to be at the 7 o'clock meeting but that's up to Jacob if he cares to discuss yeah I don't want to jump the gun here if we already set plan then let's I'm fine to stick with whatever schedule we have I didn't know if it need to be let's plan on that the S o' meeting okay perfect thank you and chief why youum um have we ever considered having a a cleaning service to come to uh clean our fire stations maybe on a monthly basis rather than strictly relying on our five ERS to do that that's something we can certainly look at it's not something in in this budget this year now but um well I I'm gonna ask if you would uh check and see what that cost would be we have to do a budget amendment uh then we will I I think that's something it be of value to our stations and to the health of our firefighters as well just so I can get a good note you said cleaning services for for fire stations yeah that's something I can again discuss with rley to and facility side okay all right and and then lastly do do you know how much of this current budget that you did not spend about the $10,000 and that's because the price came in at greater than $10,000 we allocated right yeah we well we run you know we I run a weekly report and look at that sort of stuff so each Line's kind of different I I'd be happy to sit down with you at your meeting and and show you exactly but you know basically way I look at is I take 100% over and divid it by 12 months 8.33% a month is the way I look at it and where we're trending in certain things like that and you know a lot of times we do move monies you know if we have an increased cost in our amuses for example you know we have to transfer that money out of somewhere else to make sure that we stay on flat so there's lots of moving Parts if that makes sense but I'd say we're right on on track for the 75% where we should be right now as far as total spending but I don't I would have to run report you know okay and um and then my last question is I I know that we have uh policy and procedures in reference to uh Finance as to how purchase orders are approved and I'm just concerned if there was an an emergency or something that we needed is there a alternative process by which that can be Tak commercy procurement yeah that's something yeah we've we we've used it you know so some of in that example you know if it has to bypass you know certain quotes or thresholds or things like that it's a emergency procurement policy yes okay um and then I know we discussed the renovation already in reference to the kitchen and what have you and I I think the last report that we received was something about we doing stainless steel countertops and so that was a a backlog a hold up do we know where that is at this point thank you well station one was has been completed you know that's that's actually the Hood's up and running the hood system and everything in there so that station was the first one we did we targeted again station four being our next with the design piece coming into play and those things being allocated so that's again all that's being is in the works so so are we going to hold off on doing that until we do the complete overhaul or yeah okay you why don't we have maybe next I don't know if we can pull it off next Council me meeting have Bradley and and AJ come in and give us kind of an update yeah they'll be able to I don't know if we can pull it off for next Wednesday but you we if not next yeah yeah we will definitely get a status what's that you meaning for the 17th I don't know we can pull it off by then I'd rather let's just make it for the first meeting in August in August for update yeah y yep Y and we'll Jak be sure let's put the uh the traffic light on there I mean the um sa safe sa safety signal do you want me to provide a little update on that now yeah you got yeah so um basically we have uh again the designs components for each of the stations and signalization is uh is almost it's 90% complete now um again we've targeted uh the brain priority being station three um because of the high speed traffic and the things out there um the next uh being uh state one because it does not currently have a signal and there a lot it's not just the signals out there it's how the traffic flow works and we've been working with the Traffic Engineers and things and how to work some of those problems out and also uh station 4 and then station two behind that so again we do have the pieces in place we actually do have um monies allocated this year that we're trying to work through the design piece first and then get the construction piece started um before the end of this fiscal year that's design and then come back next year asking for more money to complete those projects that's something that's coming out of of the traffic you know Pam richment helped out a lot on that so so they're being they're 90% through planning yes are we budgeting in this budget to get them completed next fiscal year and this we have about $497,000 this year that's coming out of the transportation related stuff and then we're ALS excuse me walk working with uh public services and to see what we need to complete all the projects so we should be able to see those 24 25 yes I I feel very comfortable with that say that yeah okay commission Vasquez um I saw a here in expense for like promotions plaques and that but other than I've been seeing it on Facebook um before you used to have like little um oh like award ceremony yeah you used to have some kind of ceremony where their families were invited we were yeah we wanted to support that that's something that's been kind of missing in the last two years um I mean I I appreciate seeing it on Facebook but I feel um we should try and go back to that where we can bring the families and sure their friends and there's there's money budgeted for that for this promotion is is a big deal and we should recognize them for that um and it's a way of of doing two things and that is um kind of bringing a community together and some healing and and bringing up the morale in your Fire's Department um I think it's important sure so if we can consider to do that we we spend uh we we allocate a lot of funds for different events here and I think we should do that for our own so sounds good please make sure that we can try and do that cuz I saw some recent uh promotions and maybe we can have a day where we can bring them all in and and have something for them sounds good okay yes ma'am thank you okay commissioner Anderson just have a quick question so I can kind of understand so in regards to the fourth firef fire firef fired on the truck is is that an industry standard to have a fourth firef fir on the truck or is it is it a safety issue not having a fourth fire on the so 1710 is the the standard that requires you know certain firefighters per truck 1710 NFPA 1710 okay yeah and that's something C again kind of the first slide I showed you was where we're at now compared to a lot of the other departments in the area and the national averages and things like that again that's certainly a standard that we I think we need to move forward to over the next six to eight years again we we're unique in this city because we have six stations right now but we're 38 square miles versus you look at CMI they have you know four stations but they're 22 square miles and they have a population that's almost double AR you know it's so when you look at sort of things like that when our population starts to increase and our density start to increase that's really when we need to add additional firefighters and you know when we look at um that average that's why I keep track of that National kind of average and see where we're at compared to other places and our local areas and so it's something we're definitely want to Aspire to in the future so when I'm glad that commissioner um Anderson asked that question we're at and I know you did state it how many residents and so do you have a benchmark in other words when we reach a certain population yes then we are going to implement for onor when I when I started as the fire chief you know one of the things I wanted to make sure we were at is 1.9 to two firefighters minimum per thousand right now I think we're at 1.3 something or two I'm sorry 2.38 I believe was I mean because that's been that's been an a an ask and a concern probably in the last three years I mean we finally did get that third person the third firefighter but oh God where was it that you had what our population is right now so right now our population's F 58 , 293 and what is cuming because you did say $89,100 and they do they have four no they don't but they have a smaller they have four stations okay yeah and how how many firefighters do they have you know uh 117 so we've got more firefighters and we've got way fewer people yeah we have we have 134 firefighters they have 117 and they have 89,000 people and we have 58,000 okay so we have more firefighters per capita than anybody in the area I guess yeah but we have 38 I just I asked I just said to per capita per capita do is there anybody in the area cheap that has more firefighters per Winter Park is 2.5 okay but everybody else we we're above them I'm going to park in us do EMS yeah okay thank you any any last thoughts okay before we bring bring up Chief mckin thank you very much thank you Chief appreciate [Music] it this right don't don't throw too in thanks an all right I'm not sure how I'm GNA put my hour and a half presentation into the time I got left now so hang on and and Mr olssen I have everything I've asked for I sent you a [Laughter] text good evening mayor Commissioners and City administrator Mr Smith during this budget cycle just like previous budget Cycles the apop police department has looked at the best way to police our city while being physically responsible we continue to look at technology to help us improve the services we provide to our community and look at ways we can continue to improve our community policing efforts to support our community this year we have reorganize the agency to be more efficient prepare us for the future and work on our succession planning based on the organizational changes we have made and the measurements we rely on to monitor our performance we have submitted a budget that we believe will help us prepare for the future during our presentation we plan to cover our accomplishments our challenges as well as our needs and concerns as we prepare for the future sometimes I've been accused of going pretty quick and moving right along so if you need something just get my attention and I'll slow down and and stop and answer your questions so or we can address them at the end I have not gone through like normal line item stuff I've hit the highlights of our budget U most of our costs are normally related to Personnel costs some Vehicles [Music] so when viewing the department overview when reviewing the department overview we must start by considering the role of Public Safety in our community it is essential to remember that Public Safety involves more than just law enforcement it encompasses the well-being and security of all of our community members key aspects to keep in mind include as the city continues to prepare for rapid and increased growth the safety of our community will always be a top concern of our residents and investment in Public Safety Fosters trust makes citizens feel secure engages people in their communities and supports economic activity places with lower crime rates are perceived as more desirable attracting visitors businesses new residents and an increased talent pool when people feel safe they are more likely to conduct business in their community and participate in local business dining and entertainment offerings Public Safety is a key factor for individuals looking to move into a community and for companies looking to invest in a community our accomplishments received $200,000 in urban area security initiative funding to participate in the countywide License Plate Reader initiative we rolled out new Public Safety radios to the police and fire department with a recently completed salary survey and increase in starting pay our salaries remain competitive in the local market transition swarm Personnel to 12-hour shift which has put more officers on patrol restructured the agency to plan for pending retir IR Ms and succession planning awarded approximately $142,000 in Grants continued to conduct Advanced Training of personnel such as active shooter training right training deescalation training and fair and impartial policing training to ensure our Personnel are well trained and aware of the issues facing the policing profession the department is proud to announce that we have been selected to send a manager to the prestigious FBI National Academy in September of this year Lieutenant Jason Wartman has been chosen to attend this esteemed program some of the challenges we continue to face although we have begun to make progress recently finding qualified applicants for police officer and communication technici positions continues to be very challenging to fill those positions competitive pay and benefits will continue to be a moving Target as surrounding agencies continue to make adjustments to attract new Personnel Although our salaries are competitive at this time we will have to continue to monitor monitor the market to ensure we remain competitive during the physical year 2425 I mentioned salaries being competitive and although our current starting salary is competitive we will have to continue to monitor the market as OPD has raised their starting pay and is Raising it again on October 1st of 2024 our starting pay is currently just over $62,000 which puts us up near the top of the Central Florida Market however with the increase OPD we'll have on October 1st their new starting pay will be just under $65,000 the Sheriff's Office current starting salary is approximately $55,000 however they are considering opening their contract mid year to provide a pay increase to their swarm Personnel this pay increase could be as much as 133% which would Place their starting pay at just over $62,000 also there also is they also consider are considering an additional increase in October that would put their starting pay above opds and that's why I caution that we may be chasing salaries again next year even though we don't plan on doing it right now with our increase in starting salary and switching our hiring practices to offerings sponsorships we currently have over 90 applicants we are processing we haven't seen these numbers uh numbers like this in years and if we want to maintain this progress we will have to continue to closely monitor the market to ensure our pay remains competitive our community policing accomplishments we had another great year working with our community we were able to sponsor over 130 children during our annual Shop with a cop event thanks to the support of our community and Community Partners and Walmart we continued our monthly cookies milk with a cop program thanks to the continued support of McDonald's we held our annual National Night Out youth summer camps woman self-defense classes citizens police academy and many other courses to support and interact with our community once again this year with the dedication of our police officers staff volunteers and Community all the events were very successful and brought our community together we're proud of the work and dedication we should all be proud of how our sworn and civilian members of the apka police department have handled the challenges that and adversities they have faced over over the last couple of years despite short staffing levels requiring them to work longer shifts and more hours in a very difficult job they remain committed to ensuring our community's safety it continues to be an honor and a privilege to work with each one of them our population you saw some of this from Chief won this slide illustrates the population increase based on an average annual growth of 1329 residents over the past 18 years so I'm looking at a population in at the end of 2024 somewhere around 60,000 I think that aligns with where he was in 2025 um a growing population increases demand for Public Safety apka continues to grow rapidly in 2013 there were 16,000 households in apka according Community Development Department in April of 2023 the Community Development Department showed the number of households had increased to 21,000 a little over 21,000 this represents an approximate 32% increase in the number of households in the city over the past 10 years as of April 2023 the city of apas Community Development Department estimated the population of apka at 5823 residents this is an increase of 14,168 residents since 2013 in the last 10 years over this 10-year period the average annual resident growth was approximately 1416 new residents per year this does not include commercial or industrial growth during the same period according to the community Development Department there are approximately 7,418 dwelling units planned or under construction in the city of aapka this is down from 11366 dwelling un planed are under construction just last year this decrease is due to some of the previous plan development being completed and some of the plan development not coming to fruition based on the City Community Development unit in April of 2022 the average household at 2.7 persons per household this residential growth will add an estimated 20,000 new residents to the city of opka over the next several years although some of the developments used to compile these numbers may have been completed by now we have not added any additional authorized positions to the police department since they were planned or completed when referring to the fact that we have not added officers to completed projects it's important to clarify that while we have increased our staffing in the last two budget Cycles these efforts were focused on catching up with the previous growth and improving our per capita ratio with an average annual increase of, 1400 residents maintaining a Capital ratio of just 2.33 officers per 1,000 residents would require hiring a minimum of 1.65 new officers each year that doesn't account for all the planned or approved growth to plan for the possibility of 20,000 new residents over the next several years at per capita of 2.5 officers per thousand which is the per current per capita according to the Florida Department of Law law enforcement we will need to hire approximately 50 new officers just to support the future growth that is planned or under um Construction to reach or exceed the state average of officers per capita we will need to continue to work close to close the gap created by pass and ongoing growth which will be which will need to be mult which will be need to be a multi-year effort sorry about that this slide shows the growth of the police department over the past 16 years as you can see our staffing levels remain relatively flat for many years however thanks to the support of this commission we have experienced significant growth over the last three years the support and the addition of new positions Have Been instrumental in helping us catch up and increase our per capita ratio despite these advancements we still have progress to make to fully meet our goals as you can see from this slide our current per capita based on authorized positions is 2.2 officers per 10,000 residents with the 10 new positions we are requesting for the next physical year our per capita will increase to 2.36 officers per 1,000 residents currently the average per capita for surrounding agencies is approximately 2.3 1 officers per th000 residents the state average of officers per 1,000 population in 2023 according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement was 2.51 officers excluding school and Port Police when looking at the need for additional sworn positions we do not just look at one data set such as per capita it is also important that we look at the area of responsibility and the coverage the police department must provide the city city of Apopka spans almost 30 68 square miles I'm sorry this chart shows a comparison of the square miles for several local cities the average square miles for the city's listed is 21.73 as you can see at almost 60 36 square miles we have the third largest service area among the agencies listed we're only behind Orlando and Daytona Beach this slide shows how many officers each of the listed cities has per square mile of service area as seen on this slide not only do we have a per capita that is lower than most agencies in our area we have a very low average of officers per square mile our current officers per square mile is 3.67 with the additional 10 officers we are requesting for the next physical year we will be at 3.94 this is still below the average of the agency's listed of 5.45 officers per square mile our UniFi our uniform crime report for part one crime shows in 2023 violent crime decreased by 20% in the city of apaba to the far right of the Char you'll see a different number which is how our crime analyst tracks crime UCR utilizes a hierarchy rule when we report crime to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and for our internal purposes our crime analyst uses incident-based reporting we use incident-based reporting because it's more of an immediate way for us to see where crime is trending and where our patterns are going in the city so we can respond to those because UCR is a hierarchy report it leaves out some of the crimes that we want to track so she does a little bit better detail but that's why those numbers don't match up because ucr's definition of a burglary and our definition of a burglary don't always match up either so that's why we have uh UCR is going to incident-based reporting they were supposed to be live on it three years ago there's still problems and um I think 65% of the agencies in the United States can't report to it yet and we're one of them so nonviolent crime oops nonviolent crime which is mostly property crimes were up 1% in 2023 this increase was driven primarily by motor vehicle thefts the vehicle theft can be contributed to the continued theft of Kia and ion day Vehicles overall part one crimes combining violent and nonviolent crime was down 2.2% in 2023 as you can see from this slide our community gr as our community grows our calls for service continue to grow these are calls into our communication Center of these approximately 990,000 calls approximately a little over 30,000 resulted in an officer being dispatched somewhere in the city of popka in addition to our calls for service being up our respon our response times were uh saw also a slight increase we believe the implementation in March of this year of the 12-hour shifts and more officers on patrol will help address our response times the next section of our presentation will cover our previous budget overview Personnel request equipment request and capital Improvement this slide shows the police department's adoped budget since fy1 1920 and our proposed FY 2425 budget request as you can see our budget has seen the largest increases in our Field Services Division which primarily consists of our Patrol unit and our Support Services Division which mainly comprises our criminal investigations division the biggest increase in our budget over the last six years can mainly be attributed to the salary increases we had to implement to remain competitive in the market unfortunately as previously mentioned I don't believe we're done adjusting our salaries to remain competitive and there is a strong possibility that we may have to adjust them during the physical year 2425 budget cycle another significant part of the increas is due to the rising cost of vehicles that have uh that we have to replace for example in physical year 1920 budget we budgeted $50,000 for a marked Ford SUV that's completely outfitted the vehicle completely outfitted in the physical year 2425 budget request the same vehicle has increased to $68,000 it's $118,000 in 3 years that those vehicles have gone up on average we will have to replace approximately 15 vehicles per year which a cost at little over a million dollars that's just to keep our cycle going um on a positive note our vehicles are lasting longer than we anticipated it appears that on average they will remain in our Fleet for approximately seven to eight years as long as they stay in good shape and we'll always have the outliers that we'll have to get rid of fied Services request we are currently authorized 13 32 swarm positions however to improve our per capita and officer per square mile ratios to be closer aligned with the state average and surrounding agencies as well as prepare for anticipated growth we must continue to add additional officers we are requesting 10 additional authorized positions for physcal year 2425 although we are currently have 14 vacancies to fill we have over 90 applications we are working through and believe we will be able to fill these vacancies along with the additional positions we are requesting in the next phisical year these additional authorized positions will help us achieve our Target staffing needs as well as assist us in keeping up with the residential and Commercial growth occurring across the city I would like to take a moment to update you on what we've done to improve our recruiting efforts and increase the number of applicants that we're seeing as of today we have like I mentioned have over 90 applications we are processing which is a number we haven't seen in a long time one of the biggest reasons we have seen the significant increase in applications is due to our increase in salaries over the last couple of years to remain competive itive in the local market additionally we have modified our recruiting efforts to include sponsoring applicants through the Law Enforcement Academy we had a history of looking for certified Personnel everybody wants to be sponsored through the academy now um in our physical year 2425 budget request we've requested to fund 20 sponsorship positions which we believe will continue to help us hire personnel and fill the vacant positions that we currently have in the positions that we're asking for are you getting uh in any applic applicant that are coming in from out of state because I know our governor had a program sort of um promoting yes out of state but they haven't been very successful to Florida we have hired several from out of state um I think you know you've met a couple of them from New York um during the middle of their training program they decided to go back to New York um we've had some other ones that have decided to get out of law enforcement when they've come here uh we haven't had great success with the um out of state ones I mean obviously we're not going to turn them away we're going to do our best to bring them on board one of the things we are U have thought about and discussed internally we think with the sponsorships that we are probably going to help with our minority recruitment because a lot of our minority recruits are looking for sponsorships and we see a lot of the sheriff's office in Orlando Police Department picking up minorities because they are sponsoring them so I think with our sponsorship we will increase some of our minority hiring at the same time so Let's see we are requesting a public records video redaction specialist due the large number of public records requests handled by the police department we're requesting an additional person to work on the rec in the records unit to handle nothing but public records requests we receive public records requests from the state attorney's office public defender office other law enforcement agencies state agencies federal agencies and the community at this time records requests and video redactions are handled by all members of the records unit the sergeant that oversees the records unit and sworn police officers this is in addition to the other assignments required of their positions even with all these individuals it is difficult to keep up with the number of Records requests we receive this additional person will not be able to handle all of them but will relieve a lot of the burden off the records personnel as you're probably aware the city began using software to receive and track public records request in May of 2023 since implementing the software the police department loone has received a total of 2534 public records requests this is just over 200 requests a month and we are seeing this number Trend upward each month for instance in January of 24 we had 240 public records requests by May of 24 we had 356 public records request Public public records are unique in the fact that almost every record and video I'm sorry police records are unique in the fact that almost every record and video has to be reviewed and redacted in accordance with Florida statute 119 while we have technology that helps us identify sections of reports and videos that need redaction the records or videos still require thorough review to ensure we do not release any law enforcement sensitive information or information mandated for redaction under Florida statute 119 this process is very timec consuming and our Personnel especially when it comes to videos must which must be reviewed and redacted frame by frame vehicle and Equipment request here are some of the new items vehicles and Equipment being requested in the in the FY 2425 budget in the chief's office 2210 we're requesting a w wcctv trailer with cameras that's one of the the trailers like you see in the Walmart parking lot and some of the other facilities around different towns and cities uh this monitoring trailer with cameras will be deployed at events and locations around the city as a force multiplier you will be able to live stream video and to our command post during events and to our laptops this equipment can be used in areas experiencing experiencing specific crime Trends or patterns to act as a deterrent and provide additional surveillance in 20220 field services we are requesting to replace 14 aging Patrol vehicles with Ford Interceptor SUVs or F-150 interceptors 10 additional vehicles are being requested to be added to our Fleet for the 10 new positions we are requesting in fiscal year 2425 in 2230 Support Services we requesting we are requesting to replace six aging unmarked vehicles with new to be determined unmarked Vehicles these requests aim to enhance our operational capabilities improve safety and address specific crime T Trends effectively our Capital Improvements Police Department Training Facility I brought this up in last year's budget uh but it's becoming more of a priority we are requesting A needs assessment to be completed early next fiscal year for police training facility with the expansion of the fire and police departments both agencies combined have outgrown the Gillum Training Center the fire department's expansion and quest to be a Regional Training Facility have required the majority of the training facility and the existing building for their training needs Additionally the existing Firearms range continues to generate complaints from the surrounding Community these complaints are expected to increase with the addition of a subdivision immediately to the east of the range if the subdivision is built it could require additional improvements to our range I don't think that our burm on the east side of the range meets the NRA standards which is our range standards the new training facility would include the following items it would have an indoor range facility the police department only utilizes our existing Firearms range Monday through Friday between 800 a.m. and 5:00 pm with a few exceptions to reduce the community complaints this is not ideal since we're at 24 hour 7-Day a week operation it does not allow us to do low light shooting for those officers at work nights due to the growth in a Popkin the expected growth of the police department and indoor range has become a necessity a driving course currently the police department does not have a dedicated driving course neither does the fire department actually um or access to one we previously had access to the Lake County Sheriff's Office driving range however it had become increasingly challenging to schedule time there without a driving facility or reliable access to one we are unable to complete high-risk driving Pursuit driving or other tactical driving course is essential to our profession to include a skid pad for inclimate weather and so forth the training facility would also have a defensive tactics room due to the fire department's training needs the classroom in the current and this is nothing personal towards fire department by the way in the current Gillum Training Center had become obsolete for both agencies to utilize there's just not enough room in the classrooms out there in the G in the Gillum Training Center to uh accom both of us anymore as a result the police department does not have a classroom large enough to conduct defensive tactics training we actually have to move tables in our briefing room we've used the Billy Dean Center at times we're just finding different places I know we may have to start using because as we grow we might have to start using the VFW uh but that requires us taking up all the mats that we have to have to perform our defensive tactics training on over there totem back to the Gillum Training Center uh it's just a lot of U time and effort spent on that so we do need a new defensive tactics room due to the increased need in training classrooms between police and fire departments there is a limited space available for both agencies to conduct TR classroom training so we are going to have some training classrooms in the uh training facility also and understand that U when I say this is a police training facility there's no reason that if the fire department needed a training classroom or one you know some of the facilities of driving facility obviously would be for both um departments so it would be co- you know used by both departments we're not saying that we're going to put a padlock that they don't have a key to on the gate so we still love them invite them over uh we'd also like to put a simulator in there our current simulator which is over 15 years old is outdated and obsolete modern simulators offers offer 340 degree active shooter scenarios deescalation training tactical shooting training and more realistic scenarios our K9 training area would be moved over to the new training center it's currently next to the Gillum training building and we just move things over to the uh new training center and give that u grph space back to the fire department our fitness assessment course the current fitness assessment course for annual fitness test and new recruits is laid out around the current infrastructure of the gilm training center it sort of weaves them its way through different obstacles a dedicated area to complete Fitness uh assessments is needed our SWAT tactical training is currently at the um current outdoor range and will need to be moved to the new training center improvements and enhancements to the swats teams training will be able to be built into the new training facility as I mentioned last year in my presentation this property the Gillum training center off Cleveland Street is owned by the city and consists I believe of a little over 10 acres if my math is right don't trust me on that one though um the fire department is establishing a Regional Training Center at the Gillum Training Center this location would allow the city to keep all public safety training in one location and allow some training areas to be shared the needs assessment will determine if this property is large enough to accommodate the police training center or if another location must be sourced given the significant importance of this training center to the police department the city and our community we are requesting that the needs assessment begin early in physical year 2425 budget cycle we aim to have it completed promptly so that we can potentially move in on to the architectural and design phase immediately after the needs assessment is finalized the men and women of the apoa police department want to thank our mayor City administrator Commissioners and Community for their continued support and at this time if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them commissioner Anderson I'll let you start out in regards to the $142,000 in Grants that was received can you kind of go over what agencies you receive that those funding sources from the $142,000 in grant funding most of us uh Jag grants from the feds is pass through through the Florida Department of Law Enforcement uh those are based those are sent to the Sheriff's Office they're distributed by population um I think we average somewhere between 12 and $133,000 when they come out they're sporadic they come at different times uh but most of them are burn grants Jag grants some of them were Department of Transportation grants for traffic enforcement overtime details such as pedestrian uh enforcement distracted driving enforcement and and stuff like that okay are there any grants that you aware of that we can apply for that can help with some of the needs of the department uh I'm not aware of any for I mean our biggest need obviously is the training facility because I'm you know we're talking a large amount of money there I would suspect probably in today's market 20 to$ 25 million indoor ranges are very expensive the um air purification system is outrageous um but that's where we're going to have to go we don't have anywhere in this city that we can um shoot I know that okoy the mayor and I have talked okoy is building an indoor range uh but it's not even going to start with enough uh Lanes to take care of our needs we can probably use it occasionally but we will overcome what that facility is going to do um I can look for I know Lieutenant Wartman handles our grants and he does look for Grants all the time I get information on grants that out there I haven't seen many grants that um for firearms ranges or training facilities that's our biggest cost so and another question is for the sponsorship opportunities that's through the academy what are the GU some of the guidelines do they have to stay with the department for a period of time they do have to sign a contract that they'll be with the police department for two years uh if they at any time leave they don't make it through the academy or anything else they have to reimburse us for the Academy cost okay and average that sponsorship is how much per $4,000 4,000 okay thank you okay commission blasquez um I was interesting in the property that you were saying by the Gillian C uh Training Center is that of consideration are you actually moving forward to do anything with that property I think that's the best way for the city because again it allows us to build a facility that can be used by police and fire still as far as the driving range some of the classroom facilities and everything else it's property that you probably don't notice it's behind if you're at the gilm training center parking lot looking to the east there's a dry retention Pond there it's to the north of that dry retention pond it's still wooded it goes to whatever streets North there I can't remember what it is right now but I think that's the best place to try to keep us centrally located for all public safety training so that we can share our resources and everything else so has anything been presented uh any site design anything like that no that's what I I mean we have to go through the process just like we're doing with the public safety building we have to do the needs assessment to show what the needs are what the size of the building the square footage of the building would be for our needs um we have gone down the mirr and I went down to the CMI uh police department's uh indoor range and looked at U their training facility there uh they don't have a driving range attached to theirs um we would need the driving range and some of the other facilities ATT test ours uh but it would be somewhat probably mirrored after what the CMI Police Department's indoor range and Training Facility with their defensive tactics room uh training offices for their training staff and some other things but we have to go through the process of the needs assessment then the architectural uh design and then the build same thing we're doing with the public safety building so right now we're just asking to do the needs assessment as soon as we can in next physical year once we get the RFP out um or RFQ whichever way we go RFQ usually um and then select a company to do the needs assessment then we'll have an idea of what the layout would look whether or not the property is sufficient for that or how much property we need to look at did the RFP go out no we haven't U we're just now we didn't request funding in this year's uh budget for the needs assessment I'm requesting starting October 1st obviously the $100,000 is being set aside for A needs assessment that should cover that um architect and design is going to depend on the cost of you know what the needs assessment comes up with um that may be a budget amendment that we have to come back with during next fiscal year is that how muchos to do a need assessment I think it probably less it should be less than that I think if I remember correctly the one for you weren't here I don't think for the public safety building was somewhere around 90 $992,000 oh okay uh this one won't be as complicated because it's just really more square footage for what the average defensive tactic room is what the average classroom is uh depends on the obviously the number of lanes we need inside our Indoor Range to accommodate our current Staffing and our future Staffing obviously need to be taken into consideration as we uh do all of this um the needs assessment for the public safety building obviously had to cover employees different sections different departments the Comm Center it and everything the public safety building is really more about the support staff this here is for training uh for both fire using the fire department and the police department will share this space it will be primarily for the police department with the the indoor range is going to be the majority of the building uh there will be some classrooms that obviously we'd be happy to share with fire department the driving course would have a SK wet skid pad on it for in climate weather uh that the fire department would obviously they were out actually I was out at Gillum today and they were out there driving um in the area we have we have a driving pad out there but unfortunately way before me when it was built it has wrong asphalt on it to be able to do inclimate weather training on it I think this is a a great consideration to keep it all Central um I'm just hoping that it so you're not looking to do it now for this this 2425 um fiscal year my goal is make sure miss Sherman doesn't hit me in the back of the head when I say this my goal is to have the needs assessment architect and design done during next fiscal year if we can get that done and then move on into construction okay the following year so within two to three years u i mean it probably be running and unfortunately it's you know because of the growth of the city and the expansion of the police department and the fire department to cover our growth we've just outgrown everywhere we're at and you know I think you all get the complaints from the neighbors every once in a while when we start our annual re uh certification every February with our handguns the complaints come in when the SWAT teams down there using High powerered rifles and everything the complaints come in uh we just you know we need to get out of that location where we're at okay and and excuse me Chief didn't you estimate the cost this to be about 25 million I would suspect I think did theirs but theirs included a fire tower was somewhere in the area of $1 million I would Suspect with you know the cost of construction these days and again just like everything else the longer we wait the more it's going to cost um I would suspect we're going to be in the neighborhood of 20 $25 million uh you know and I think can make the property work as worse comes to worse you know we can make it a two-story building just as long as we have enough space there for the um driving range but I would think that the if it is truly 10 acres but that's me trying to use a County uh Appraiser's website to measure the distance so don't trust me on that one okay it yes okay commissioner Smith and do you know how many acres the uh facility cim takes up no so I don't but they have some fire training facilities there too I mean I could find it out but um they also had um a fire tower built and next to their indoor range and some other things um I'm I'm pretty comfortable that 10 acres should do it again even if we had to put you know classrooms above the defensive tactic room and the training rooms and stuff like that obviously we're not going to put um buildings up above the range um I'm sure they can put some kind of floor there that would prevent it but you know I'm not an architect and and I'm not a construction Personnel that might be able to say we can go straight up and and do what we need to do I I think we can work something out to make that property work and I think if we can make that property work it's beneficial to the city and obviously the police and fire department all right um well and the reason why I asked is for two reasons I mean I like the idea that the you say you're having over 90 applicants that are applying for these positions and uh I just want to say that I'm still actively um pursuing the indexation of the unincorporated part of a of a POA so we going to need those applicants and I know at one of the workshops it was mentioned that we would need another fire station and that same location was mentioned so I just want to make sure that we uh have room for a fire station there as well and so I'm just saying that we need to include St 8 in the capital Improvement plan uh so because that's coming um and other than that I'm I support your proposal your budget you're presenting sounds good keep up the good work I I would follow up and say that it's probably going to be cheaper to buy to try to buy a smaller footprint for a fire department than it is a training facility so if that's where I I'd never heard that that the fire station might go on that piece of prop there uh but you know the training facility is going to be much larger footprint than what a fire department would so we have to go buy property it probably better go buy property for a fire department all right I never heard that a fire department was considered for that location where was that um commissioner Smith it was mentioned at one of the workshops that we had at the uh John Bridges Center when it was asked if we Annex that in uh will we do another fire station and it was said that because the city already owns that property that would be i' be a location it was in one of our workshops yes ma'am I'll have to go back and look okay commissioner Nesta uh thank you for your detailed presentation as always I appreciate it to confirm we need to once this is approved we need to fill 24 total spots 14 now and then adding 10 correct yes sir okay uh in reference to the discussions of the the Land There we do own Northeast of that as well another 10 acres that abuts this as well so there's space so I think it's a good spot I think you're going to have plenty of space to do even if there is a fire station need up there as well I think it'll all work well um the only other thing I came up with was the the floors in the your building are a little rough floors M as in the flooring um do we have any intention to make them look decent as in dirty or as in falling apart because I haven't notic I'm falling apart and we I think they're either due to be cleaned or we're just cleaned there over specifically the that side entrance the South entrance it's a little rough there as peeling up and well you know it it it comes down to you know I think I don't know if I had this discussion with you uh the restrooms could stand to be remodel but how much money do we want to invest into this building when we know that we have a brand new building coming you know I think the goal still is October of 2026 um so it's not way out there that um the building's coming so I have to look at where's our return on our investment do we want you know we do get $155,000 a year to improve our facilities and we do use it for the needs that we have but I don't think it would be appropriate to like go and and get the bathrooms and and remodel them at this particular point in time uh knowing that this building is going to be demolished uh and probably be the parking lot based on some of the plans that I've seen you know our building will probably be you they're have to build around our building because we don't have another secure facility for the police department to move into while they're building the new one once we move into it this building will be totally demolished and will become the parking lot for public parking so it's it's a trade-off I'll be more than happy to go and and look at it uh you know we've tried um we did when I right after I first got here we replaced some of the floors we repainted the entire building um you know that was well before we thought about you a public safety building um and some of that is starting to get a little bit worn I'll look at it and see if there's you know something we can do smaller sections just to we obviously want our employees to feel good but I think you know they're all excited about looking forward to what's coming in the future sure no I totally agree and last one I saw there's a line item for $600 for a pelaton bike subscription didn't know we had that I'm gonna start using that no it's in the city Gym it's available to all city employees the fire department uses it it's not understand we budget for all the City gym equipment replacement the upkeep the maintenance agreement everything is on in our budget so obviously the fire department police departments but yeah it's my understanding it's used not by me obviously but no I appreciate it thank you anything else all right anybody from the public wish to speak on please come on down yes Mr olon Roger back at seven West Main Street um I'm just sitting here just thinking about all these numbers that's dropping 20 million I think it was today for some type of building um and I guess for me just kind of listen to all this has there ever been a thought to say okay the city is currently at I think it's at 36 square square miles I know we have a jpa area that says that the city of Po can Annex to this particular square footage has it every looked at say what would that look like in the future and saying with the estimated from the Census Data we're projected to be at whatever let's say 120,000 people by let's say 2035 or 2040 has it ever been kind of looking at what we're going to need when we get there to start the back fill to where are we going to start to fill that Gap because I know you guys mentioned a some type of Complex public service complex uh I think that was what 60 million I thought I heard at one point in time I don't I don't I could be wrong right I've heard 20 million for this yes I mean two days ago swimming pools and you just start to add all this stuff up and then as soon as you get it built you got the maintenance and then there's operation cost so you got capex Opex so it's just one like how do you really start to see longterm because I know we're budging but it's really secession plany right so where do we look like in 10 and 20 years from now because there again as soon as you build something there's maintenance and expenses that comes along with it um so just as far as projecting out what that look like um because so really have to start to get detailed with this analysis um I know we're going to be up against the I guess cuss every year with the millage rate I keep hearing it's can only go so much and then you see fees going up 40% but it is what it is at this point um but I think we need to kind of start to really look more holistic on what it will look like in the future if we are going to meet those numbers because we go in that direction um I think you said it 7,000 units possibly proposed so what does that look like in in h so you can kind of build out the city to that point and then start to back fill it as you go but that's just kind of my thought and assessment um but I also say that if we can start to track again online these things as proposed because it seem like every time we come up the stuff is in design phases or whatever case may be to kind of see where we are to again check off this is going to be done but time frame because sometimes you just wonder like what's really taking place and what has it so that's just kind of my two cent from what I'm hearing right but I just think we really need to start projecting out just not this year next year but a little bit further thank you Rod olon 3156 Rolling Hills Lane uh Chief thank you I did get your text at any rate um couple things is that I'm in the community quite a bit as you know and it it's inspiring to see the way our law enforcement officers and our our fire Personnel handle themselves in the community they've dealt with some very difficult situations and it's amazing how what you guys do so thank you um I believe that based upon everything I've read with what's going on with Orange County and the in in the city of Orlando is that you should build in a 5% bump in the budget for the police department because we know it's coming as opposed to just transferring money at a later time uh another thing for both the fire and the police departments the aspect we keep improving this new housing it's coming we're growing yes but we have to look at the setbacks and a couple of the developments a full siiz pickup truck with extended cab is two feet into the sidewalk that means people are parked on the street there's times when I'm on patrol I have to go two three miles an hour to wiggle between traffic much less I'm not in a hurry as the police and fire departments are it's something needs to be looked at thank you one more Chief Jeff Ty 1120 leg Drive um thank you Chief a great presentation just wanted to uh Echo that uh if you look at the pay increases and the benefit packages that the police department has now they're attracting more people uh more quality people and they're retaining those people please city council keep that in mind when you're talking about the fire Union contract please keep that in mind um just want to go back on the fire department rebuttal thing about the four people on the fire engines I don't like comparing ourselves to CMI to Claremont to other agencies our goal has always been to be the number one fire department and provide the best service to our community that's what we have to keep in mind thank you I have no questions for the police department but I do have a question about where are we with the charter issues that were brought to Council in the work sessions that took place with that could someone give me an update on that please hang around and the attorney will can you are you hang around for seven o'clock I I'll I'll be here as long as he wants to talk but I got a question I got a question and that is that on Monday I guess you went through the administrative budget uh the presentation on that was there sufficient money put in there for the city clerk to conduct a charter Amendment uh election and if not I would recommend you do that answer is I don't think so so okay it's not in your budget is it sus okay I would request that to be included okay all right okay anybody else all right thank you we appreciate your time appreciate it all right we'll take a we got about a seven minute break here and we'll be back at 7 and may just before you do that no no I just want to uh commend our fire department uh we had an emergency at our church on Sunday during our worship service and the EMS responded immediately and came into the worship service and removed a 92y old member of our our congregation and because of the speed and the efficiency uh she doing well and so I just want to commend them for an outstanding job on last Sunday all right we'll be back at 7