e e e e e e e e e e e e we'll call the popka CRA meeting to order Jim hit lead us out thank you mayor uh Jim hit community development director and CRA director um for the time being um this is a uh the second portion of the Station Street project the development agreement between the city of Apopka uh the Apopka community redevelopment agency and standard invest and Holdings LLC um what I did I I prepared kind of a highlight of the development agreement and uh some of the the the primary sections uh that pertain to that but just as a backup on February 21st 2024 the apopa CRA and the city council did approve the single proposal submitted by standard Investments and holdings for the Station Street project and that is what is being considered for tonight's uh meeting um obviously the recommendation is to approve the development agreement for the Station Street project as I'll be presenting so the um if you have your iPads or your agenda open this is on starts on the development agreement itself starts on page five of 47 so this is a fairly lengthy uh development agreement but it does cover quite a bit of information which is what I um alluded to when we were talking about the proposal itself that's why it was kind of hard to nail down exactly all the the main parameters members of the development agreement itself but again the development agreement is between papka um the city of papka the CRA and standard Investments and holdings um on page two um to start out with the this the overall site is uh 3.43 Acres which will be subdivided into two separate Lots U by way of the city's platting process itself the first lot one which I'll be referring to uh throughout this presentation uh is lot one and lot two lot one will consist of approximately 2.43 Acres we won't know the exact acreage until we get the uh plat done and the parameters and locations of the buildings the parking lot and the event space and where the driveways are things like that for for that but it'll it's approximately that um this lot will be conveyed to the city uh by the city to the developer for the uh developer to construct a maximum of excuse me maximum of 60 Apartments uh the associated residential parking uh there is a portion uh for public parking uh which will have no fewer than 30 space uh parking spaces and uh a portion of the extension of the downtown of popka Trail uh with an access and also an access drive into the site coming in from Central Avenue the second lot which is lot two uh will consist of approximately an acre and will be retained by the city um it will not go to the developer and then change and then exchange back and it was a lot easier to just simply do a construction uh easement or conveyance to the prop to the developer to construct the event space and uh without having to change hands at all so the developer will construct the public Plaza and a portion of the extension of the downtown Trail um on that part also and I'll get into what's going to be um in the public Plaza portion um a little bit later on in the development agreement itself self uh we did get a projected time frame which is outlined in exhibit H which is the last page of the development agreement um and is stated in the in the development agreement set itself it does state that while both the city and the developer intend to apply best efforts to meet the project time frames the time frames are non-binding and may be reasonably adjusted as needed administratively to account for delays beyond control of either party uh this this is in consideration for the brownfields utility access issues construction time frames and other items we never know what's going to happen one of the things about development is if if you think something's going to happen uh it probably will so we wanted to make sure there was some leeway within this development agreement to allow for some of those time frame changes on uh page six the objectives uh basically this is the first big one um it says no later than July 15th 201 24 the developer shall deliver to the city uh completed design specifications for the public Plaza in the downtown of popet Trail extensions to the city's satisfaction at a minimum the design specifications for the public Plaza uh shall include a public invent and meeting space consisting of a pavilion the plaza of course itself a lawn or artificial grass and by the way I'm recommending artificial grass so that um Parks and Recreation and Facilities does not have to mow um we found out that it's a lot simpler to just artificial grass to it still keeps it cool uh but it big thing is the maintenance you don't have to worry about mowing the lawn or edging and blowing the the artificial grass off uh after you mow um uh trees uh we're probably going to be going more than likely with a palm tree uh primarily because of Maintenance and root issues uh because this is a brown field uh there are uh seepage issues from the previous occupants that uh before the city took took ownership of the property which means that more than likely there will be tree Wells and tree Wells don't do good with trees that need a lot of root space so uh palm trees if you get about a 6x6 area the palm trees seem to grow very easily within that type of a uh constraint um there will also be a a tower or focal element probably uh right at the end or at the T intersection between Central LA and Fifth Street um basically it's like is if you're coming down Fifth Street you will have arrived when you see this this Tower um public restrooms this is something that was not thought about um back a year and a half two years ago so this is a uh a good design element if we have a public space you need you do need restrooms we don't have to re we don't want to have to rely on people utilizing uh the the businesses around there just to go to the bathroom and they are lockable by the way so this is a very something very similar to what was done down at Claremont when I was there uh so there's an open space area and then we also are looking at a a food truck staging area um along Central lab this is uh in conjunction with the electrical underground electrical boxes that uh that we were uh budgeting for in the CRA uh to allow for food trucks when we when we have events downtown that we don't have to worry about uh having generators and the noise and the pollution from generators you just simp they can simply plug into uh the outlets and do their food truck thing and then uh other other items that are identified in the exhibit e which is let me pop this up real quick just for something to so that everybody can look at this as we're as we're talking um by the way this is um this was a real quick rendition uh the applicant was able to get one of the buildings in at 30 units the other one there might be have to be a little bit of a a a movement I guess you could say for the I'm trying to get the there we go to uh allow for a 30 unit building here um but that's this is one of those things that we don't know until we get all the parameters for the measurements and everything but we still have the The Pavilion we've got a lawn area Tower area here and then restrooms over in this area here at least at the stage the access that I mentioned was coming off of central Avenues back here also Fourth Street comes up around this area here so there's two entrances there and then of course coming off of Marvin SE Sanders there's a a third access points we've got multiple access points for this parking area this would only be a one-way in coming into the parking all coming off of central a regarding the plat um this as as we all know this is the legal recordation to property uh the developer is going to be preparing the legal descriptions for each of the lots and the city will process the plat for the approvals by Planning Commission and city council so that'll be our first uh look at uh where the where the property lines actually are um this allows also up to 180 days for the process but typically the plots don't take um half a year to to produce so we're we're looking at cutting that down to probably about three maybe four months or so U but that'll that'll set us off so that the developer they they they'll know exactly where to be able to put a lot of the facilities once the plat is uh uh drafted up and and we process that on page six and seven the developer will be submitting application ations uh for the major development plan which is referred to that as the mdp for major development plan and then also the construction site plan which is the CSP both of those go well actually the mdp does go through uh Planning Commission and city council and just like normal process the CSP uh goes through just the uh development Review Committee itself the DRC upon completion and approval of the CSP uh the city will be conveying lot one of the site to the developer at that point they're off and running um the project development itself uh the developer will also be constructing the public Plaza on lot two along with the construction of the apartments and any other improvements on lot one for the developer itself uh the developer uh shall also fully comply uh complete the construction of the public Plaza and all their improvements for uh lot on lot two that they need uh to the satisfaction of the city honor before January 15 2026 so we've got a little over a year and a half um that's still fairly uh Progressive uh time frame um and prior and then also prior to the issuance of the co for any unit within the first building of the apartments themselves whether or not they're going to be building both of the apartment complexes at the same time that's that'll be up to them but they're going to shoot for one of the buildings probably the longer uh the longer one uh directly adjacent to the uh to the longer portion of the plaza um the developer will be completing the construction of the apartments uh within 3 years of the effective date of the agreement and is entitled to 180-day extension if re if requested in writing again the we try to uh put in some parameters that based on regular development schedules you don't know what's going to happen and whether or not that extension is going to occur I do the same thing with the CRA uh assistance programs we we allow for a couple of 30-day extension as POS as needed uh page eight uh the city will be vacating portions of the West Station Street uh West Fifth Street and more than likely a portion of uh West Fourth Street may also be included the vacations will be processed through the plat process um as I as I noted once before but that that we can we can vacate streets without having to do a separate vacation if if this was being platted yes we would have to do a vacate and that would go through Planning Commission and city council um but because this is being going to be platted we can do that with a plat speeds it up quite a bit um another portion is that the city uh will be granting the developer a recreational impact fee Credit in the amount of $50,000 as consideration towards the construction of the Pavilion within lot two of the public Plaza the original idea was that we were going to just pay $50,000 towards uh towards that it was a lot simpler to Simply let the uh developer do that since they're going to be on the site doing the construction all at the same time obviously the Design's going to be uh a collaboration between the developer and the city itself in terms of the design what it looks like to make sure that it it fits our fits the downtown and fits the development itself the overall development um this amount is to be conveyed within three business days of obtaining the building per um of a building permit for the improvements onto Lo two which is the city's portion again drainage easements for storm water to Martin Martin's pound is also part of this along with the any other storm water uh there will be easements that will also be worked out um between the city and the developer for uh utilities uh drainage easements um any other any other utilities that may or may not be needed well it may be needed uh the developer will also be providing perform performance and maintenance bonds and letters credits for the development itself um as I mentioned it uh previously the density is is capped at 60 units um and is going to be built in accordance with the Liv local act which does allow for at 60 units allows up to 36 units that would be considered the affordable affordable units in accordance with the live local act um please keep in mind this it is a commercial Pro property so if they were to own it they would have that right but again this is a development agreement so so we're specifying uh the parameters of the development itself each department does have an outside balcony which is in accordance with the code which is 5T by 6 feet and they do have interior washers and dryers um porches are optional on the first floor I don't think they've gotten to that point where they know if they're going to have an outside porch that'll be fenced off for each of the units or not um obviously that's a that's a good option that they that they could put in signage is also going to be in accordance with the Land Development code um and and the project itself isn't is going to be developed in accordance with the comprehensive plan so they're uh with that again like I mentioned this is probably one of the longer development agreements that I've seen it's got a lot of detail on it um and that's my presentation for the development agreement itself all right any questions for Jim yes member Williams there it is there we go I just have a couple of questions um I hope it's just a couple but is the deed is the conveyance when does that happen at what point in the process is the property being conveyed to the developer just after the uh the plat uh the plat approvals so that that way that way we know exactly what the what we're deeding over to them uh they'll they'll have a legal description for that and that'll be probably just through a quick claim deed so my question relat related to that is so the property is deed over I don't recall seeing anything in the agreement that once the property is deeded over yes they have certain time periods to comply uh to you know submit plans and whatnot but if for some reason that never happens then what is the the recourse if if the development is not completed within a three-year period then either party has the right to basically void the agreement and then they have to Le the property back to the city so is that I didn't is that in here yes where's that that is let's see I saw that they the agreement can be terminated but don't correct yeah but you the the issue is that the property at that point has already been deed over and then to try to recapture that property how do you do that without going through some type of lawsuit or whatnot because in here it just says that there's a right to terminate this agreement which that would terminate you know the rights to develop or whatnot but that doesn't necessarily return the ownership of the property back to the city unless there's going to be something in the deed that dictates you know if the developer doesn't perform then that property would either revert back to the city or some something along that nature you want to come up yeah I'm do we have legal counsel here this evening Ander did not come in and we're we're doing agreement reviews and there's no legal counsel here well she's but the unfortunately I don't represent the city so it needs to be somebody to and this to me is a critical issue if we're agreeing to convey property but then there's nothing at least not to my knowledge on the information that I have there's nothing once the property is deeded yes we can terminate this agreement but now the property is in the name of you know ABC and unless there'll be something in a deed maybe you have the information on that to there's some type of deed restriction or the city retains some type of right of repurchase or right of right of first refusal um I don't know how we manage that I know I guess you could say we our loan agreement will'll have payment and per we we'll need payment and performance bonds for a loan agreement so if we don't some up for whatever reason don't perform the financing will the bank will step in and finish the project which is you know that's but that's what we're not in the business of we're very experienced folks and we're not in that business but the protection for the city would be once construction starts the uh the lender will have uh documents and payment and performance Bonds in place to make sure that the project gets finished unfortunately can you get a little closer to the mic yeah sure yeah um so the project the project the bank will will have financing and there will be payment and performance bonds which for whatever if we don't perform then the lender would have a the ability to step in with with the bonding company to finish the project which is for primarily for the protection of the bank and their investment but not necessarily the cities so I mean I don't I I don't know if you're looking for the ability for us to some assurance that we're going to perform one we're developers so we perform and plus once we we can't start construction until we have uh the uh the CSP approved and then we have a lender that'll come in with a payment of performance bond to make sure that we do that so and that and that I understand and I'm I'm not against the the project itself but sure just you know have been or know of situations where things like this happen it doesn't not that the developer had any you know bad intentions or you know things just happen right and then the project doesn't move forward or or either you know in here the developer has a right to assign it without the city's consent so let's just say something happens the this agreement gets assigned to somebody else the land is sold to someone else yes this agreement runs with the land but at the end of the day I'm not sure without you know some and maybe Cliff or somebody has that information but I'm not sure how it all connects together to to make sure it's protected and the city just didn't give away land for a purpose and then that purpose for whatever reason never never happens and then the city loses control then to then maybe transfer or provide that opportunity for somebody else to develop it in a certain fashion so the uh the right to the ability to assign this is for us to be able to assign it to a single purpose entity for the lender so that while we have that ability to assign that that has to be in there so that we can assign that to a single purpose entity for the financing requirements and it may be limited but I don't recall if it was limited to just a um single purpose entity or not I don't believe it's specifically said I don't believe it it says that right it says the developer May assign all or portion of his rights and obligations under this agreement and it doesn't limit it to thatp that special purpose entity or related to the developer just open-ended I mean that that's why it's in there to your to the end too when we talk about the ex the the time horizon line it's under um which number development of project Section 8 A4 what page are you on uh page seven of the 38 developer shall complete construction of the apartments within three year three years of the effective date of this agreement provided that the developer shall be entitled to a 180-day extension subject to a written request for the extension delivered no later than the expiration of the initial threeyear period it it almost says they're entitled to Perpetual 180 day extension periods um I I don't think that that restricts us to one specific 180-day extension period it says any extensions granted under the section of the four statutes that cited so it it gives indication that there's more than just that one because it doesn't enumerate one 180 day extension explicitly yeah it doesn't um did you have another question um most of them are related to to to that particular issue um the other thing is I know particularly at the last meeting there was a lot of discussion about affordable housing there's no definition in here as to what affordable housing is at least if it is I missed it in our po that yeah that goes strictly to uh um yeah the the Housing Finance people that's that's the uh um that's the Lo live local act that's uh that's where the the affordable housing portion the 36 the maximum 36 units based on 60 units um it's basically 120% of Ami and uh for the area and I believe that calculates out to about uh 67 or 68,000 per year I think that would be beneficial to have in here so there's no doubt as to what affordable housing well that's what yeah we left it as live local because that that act in itself I didn't want to add I didn't want to you know a a a whole Senate Bill 102 to the as a reference to it y so there's I I get that so there's a reference to live local right but um since the obligation under this agreement is to develop affordable housing there should be a specific definition even if it's saying it's the you know 12% of median are Income should be a specific definition in here and this is what they're talking about so it's clear like the live local reference gets into the density and whatnot but it doesn't get into well what is affordable housing as far as this particular project goes it's just saying with respect to live local this is what we're going to to do as far as the number of units I I did ask uh the the attorney about that and he said that just by by stating that it's in accordance with the live local he was comfortable with that not having anything else in there I would ask him to have a specific definition if possible okay um and then the other thing um there are a couple places where it says um that the development shall occur reasonably in accordance with the plans and approvals that could that's pretty um it would be better if if to have it substantially in accordance because you can do it within reason but that doesn't necessarily mean it's substantially similar to what was approved um so just that was my other comment and I think that's about it so that that's that and substantial or reasonable it's still subjective so it's uh you we that's why we've got the plan in there and we know that that'll get adjusted a little bit and once we get the um the the legal descriptions in there for each of the parcels I guess if I'm a developer and something changes and it's reasonable I can say it is reasonable with the plan but that doesn't mean it's substantially same as the plan that was approved well keep in mind the the major development plan and then the construction site plan which is a result from the major development plan that still goes before Planning Commission city council so it is still up to uh the uh the city council to within reason of this that's that'll be up to them for that okay the only portion I can think of in regards to uh what happens if they default there is a section of default and there is a 30-day opportunity which to cure to the default if they do not cure the default then basically the city uh could request or require that that the property be reconveyed back to the C back to the city but it's a it there's a there's a 30-day time period for that portion I think at the very least it needs to be something if you don't put it if nothing's in here there needs to be something in a deed that's recorded that says the kid the city has a right to recapture if there's a default under this agreement or you know there need there there needs to be something else um from my perspective this does not protect the city from basically donating this land gotcha so okay thank you okay that's allk thank you um did you I just want to kind of just disclose that I did meet with uh Mr Mark Wilkey and he did go over this the project you know in the timeline um of course with her uh with with our attorney here giving us this input um kind of changes a little bit of what the agreement is because uh Jim you know that I'm concerned with that when we you want to make sure it gets developed right yeah I want something to say that if if after a certain amount of time if if it's not completed or if for whatever reason they walk away from it which that we we same the city regains that property back yep so that is a concern um so first one that jumps off the page at me under recital uh number or letter L on page two the city intends to support the project through conance of a portion of the property to the developer and payment to developer of a portion of the developer's development cost attribut to attributable to the public Plaza that's a pretty loaded statement um how much is a portion this is exactly what I was alluding to when we first started talking about this that's that's right now that's the $50,000 that goes towards the Pavilion otherwise it would have it would have any other amounts would have been within the body of the why not enumerate it there or quantify it there I should say as noted in section for that portion we could do that um and then two yeah there's there's reference to the improvements on the public Plaza but from a city perspective we don't have anywhere in here what our minimum viable requirements would be for those amenity improvements so I said before okay we say Pavilion what does that mean it's supposed to be a performing Pavilion I'm assuming so are there electrical components are there lighting components is there race stage components you know where do we get that in terms of this and you know just on the con conep plan yeah we can draw some boxes and slap a label on it but from a city perspective what are we truly getting it's not anywhere in this in this agreement and so you know if we had some legal council here to provide guidance from the question I might have is you know obviously this is a contract we would agree to this it's a contractually binding document at this point this would be I would assume the prevailing document on this project and if we don't have anywhere with this agreement from a city perspective that these are are the minimum viable for the Pavilion the plaza space the lawn space what the tower focal element needs to look like um you know it it creates ambiguity that I don't think should exist and then the my final point would be um on that extension period it shouldn't just be a blanket hey as as long as a developer writes us and asks us for 180 day extension should really be subject to this board's approval if they're going past three years um that's a fairly extended life cycle that that's my feedback okay um my question was in reference to the closing of the uh two roads that's Fifth Street and Station Street you said that that can be done at the time of platting platting yep and so there's nothing needs to be done prior to that correct all right anybody else no my my questions originally were in reference to impact fee credits and and the $50,000 payment how that was being broken down to but I was reassured by staff and and by the developer that that's impact fee so that absolutely makes sense there um in reference to the default concerns obviously it is enumerated in here in some capacity and and then in reference to the specifications on the Plaza things like that I think they're because we still have we're not platted we're not that there's a lot of vamba that kind of has to be built into this so I don't know to what extent unless we plat it first it makes it tough to we're we're we're platting it before we turn over any property to the to the developer but they're paying for it correct or it's they're they're putting the plat together they're putting the plat yep and that has to be done in accordance with with the city codes just like any other plat okay no yeah no I understand and I I'm hearing the the concerns as well that there's some ambiguity in here but I guess getting too specific with it can get us into additional trouble as well down the road if we do need to massage us a little bit depending on whatever it may be um so yeah just as comment I don't need there's no I don't need any feedback on that but unless you want to but okay yeah a couple of things one of the things when I was looking at the 180 day it does say entitled to a 180 day extension yep but then after that it kind of subject to a written request for the extension delivered no less than expiration of the initial three years so to me a single I if I added a single hter you put parenthetically one if that's what you mean like again you're leaving you're leaving little letters up to interpretation it's are you legally no I I understand no I I understand that yeah but that's that's how I had read it originally was a but if we add it if we put in a single then that would specify it at least I think have to have to double check that but why but why not have the minimum requirements for the amenities as an exhibit to this this because again for the design of the plaza it does specify that um that that will be worked out between staff and the city and the developer for the for what is going into the plaza itself we don't know how many trees are going to be there we don't know exactly where the plaza is going to be we don't know how tall the plaza the the trees are going to be we I mean we don't have all those specifications until we uh sit down with the developer and go through those and and make the specifications before we bring it to City Council planning commissioner city council for approval so city council and Planning Commission still get to approve everything that's going into it whether or not there's electrical or whether or not the bathrooms have have one or two stalls um or how tall the tower is or what the tower looks like those are all uh items that that the Planning Commission and city council get to review before they get approval of the major development plan but but Mr H nowhere in there does it say that it's subject to city council or CRA Board of approval just says the city so again what I'm trying to get at is if you're saying that you haven't even measured the spot to know if we can fit five trees or 10 trees how do you know what size Pavilion would be sufficient or if it's going to have enough space and that's my point is to have the minimum requirements and listed within an exhibit that says here's General specifications and then the finer points of design work okay I guess that can come later but from an agreement perspective again if we were to say approve pencils down on this agreement we just talk about a pavilion some restrooms a focal point Tower and grass area and it who what does that look like who has the final say because this developers agreement doesn't say that final say goes to the CRA board or city council um it does talk about the major development plan uh U developer obligations say developer shall construct the project in accordance with the mdp and the Cs and the csps once approved by the city through the standard review process so all that does go to you and it is specified on page seven which which section uh uh number eight development project a developer obligations to the project one and that's again it talks about the mdp and the CSP and as in in in accordance with the design standards of the city's Land Development code as set forth in the agreement additionally developers shall reasonably adhere to the um exterior and interior finishes as detailed and outlines U for exhibit e um but again but until until we know until we know the plat we don't know the dimensions that are going to actually be available in order to be able to put everything in it's kind of but again there's there's concept there's visual cues what the textur is what it's going to look look like from the apartments that's in exhibit a but the public Plaza components and that's what I'm most concerned about is the delivery of the public Plaza components the amenities because that's what the general public is more interested in at this point and that's not anywhere in the exhibit e so there's no nothing in this document that says again if this was agreed we have to live by what's written here and what exists and that does not exist for the public Plaza amenities within this current plan or agreement the the drawing does have a lot of a lot of locations of what what what things are going where but again up until we get the design components that get approved by all of you they can't do a full set of design components that is part of an mdp and and and a CSP but they did it for the apartments that's that's as close as what they've got because they already have that as a as a design component they' built someplace before can I ask a real quick question are at this point in the process is are we able to approve with conditions right now if we want to add in X Y and Z same thing if we go to council we're going to approve this with X Y and Z assuming that the developer approves or is this I take it or leave it as is right now or is that a legal question for our Council I believe it would be a legal question in regards to this um I think one of the one of the primary things that um is that is that uh hold on portion the uh pardon me it's that one section that uh that had the 30-day the default portion I think that's where we U we'd have to have a legal legal opinion as to if something gets defaulted on uh and at what stage does it get defaulted on whether or not the property would be reconveyed and under what under what conditions I don't know if that's something that we could have even even with the legal here if we could have come up with something that was satisfactory without both uh both legal entities uh discussing that so the question is that did we ask Mr Hand to come in for the CRA I didn't say Andre I'll see at 6:00 um I I honestly thought he was going to be here because I that's what happened at the last meeting I I said we did need you here and he did get everybody did get copied on this I Mr Shephard should be here in 10 minutes yeah so we can get some detail just a comfort level I guess once he gets here I know it's a wasting a little time but just to get that Comfort level and and be able to ask those questions it it may make sense to wait until it gets here okay well won just open it up to the public then and then we'll hopefully that's a good idea yeah and we can wrap it up anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter yeah come on good afternoon Mina Robinson uh 58 East Main Street I just want to let the council know that I reached out to everyone on the council I don't know if you're Miss Williams or Miss null are you Miss Williams Williams Miss Williams okay I reached out to all of you guys and I didn't get a response for you and I didn't get a response from Miss n and I didn't get a response for from Mr Becker so everyone else I did get a response from to try to meet with you all beforehand to kind of get things kind of mapped out before we got here um and try to get questions out anything questions comments or concerns that you had beforehand try to get you to meet and try to so we can hash it out before we got to this point so I just want to put that on record that I did reach out and I didn't get a response from everyone that's having a question today we did Reach Out beforehand and try to give you you guys Insight on what we're doing and how we're doing it um also we've been working on this project for about two years now um anything that's going on with the community you know the first time we came for approval everyone was here and they gave their feedback and wanted to let everyone know how big of an impact it would be for our community um now no one's not really here because it's really formality that this is what they're thinking but all of the questions are coming up and things are being said but the community really needs this and um Mr head and the developers and myself we've been working on it and this is something that is really needed for the downtown area um we don't take it lightly um for our community we we believe in what we're doing here and we don't want it to get caught up in anything negative this is all positive that we're doing and we don't want to get caught up again cuz it already got got caught up once for a whole year in negativity so we want positive and we want development and we want growth in our community so that was the whole reason of reaching out letting everyone know being transparent it needs it there's development going on on the other side of the in the WEA area and all of those areas they're being developed when it comes down to this side of town there's nothing going on so we don't want to get caught up and get left behind and if these people want to come in and help our community grow because they're not you're giving them the land but they're still developing a land it's like a $10 million project so it's not free so I get everything that's going on with you want to make sure the dots are the eyes are dotted and the te's are crossed but we need it so we we're missing out here so let's not get caught up in anything else that's going on they've been fighting for it they they put in a bid three times they want to do it so we don't want to get caught up in um the parameters of negativity we need we need it I mean some of the people are leaving some of people new people are coming in but I get it but we we need growth um so I just wanted to put that on record that we did reach out we didn't get a response from a lot of people that are asking questions um but we did open the door to do this before we got here so we wouldn't have to run a whole hour talking about things that we could have talked about in the meeting before we got here and and I will I'll take this opportunity to address that and and I appreciate that you reached out and I I have my own process of how I do things and I decided not to reach back out to you yeah I I get because we've had we've had our differences in the past and I don't think that having a meeting and me asking the question would have changed things well I think my my thing here is I think I think it's a healthy thing to talk about this in the public realm um because there are valid concerns and this is a contractual agreement between parties I'm not sure what your uh official capacity is in terms of this this application um but these are all valid questions so to say that we're not we're doing this from a place of negativity M I think is uh unfair assessment no I did not say that you were doing it from a place of negativity I said that you're you're saying we've been dealing with this for two years it's been going through processes for two years today what we're doing here is not negativity it's just questions it's not today what negativity is over the past year or two here is questions just asking questions that we open the door to meet beforehand but if you didn't want to meet or you couldn't meet that's fine and you have the questions now fine because you're you're saying that we could have settled this behind closed doors no I'm saying that I'm asking valid questions in a public realm we're not sellling behind closed doors I'm saying that it was time for you to get all your questions out and be knowledgeable of what's going on with the project and then when we get here you'll know what's going on because I I I think I heard as far as previously when you get brief right you you get it Thursday Friday Friday you have after you have a council meeting Wednesday so we were giving the benefit of the doubt so that you can be informed beforehand that's it I'm totally informed I read the developers agreement prior to this session I'm fully informed I'm informed every single meeting that I come I come to oh wow but that's not going to prevent me from asking contract specific questions in this open Forum unfortunately we don't have our legal representation here that could have made quick work of the questions that we were asking okay I did not say that you couldn't ask questions I'm just letting you know that we opened the door for you to be able to ask question so what exactly are you saying by by saying open the door I'm saying that we open the door beforehand before this meeting you could have met with us like everyone else did what would that have accomplished that we're not accomplishing here right now it I'm not sure I'm not sure exactly so why are you making that observation if you're not sure about what the end result would have been you know commissioner Becker I've always respected you we'll move on to the next right always respected him I've always respected him but today is it's like our council's here too so let's go because you came up there and you made the St I said what I said for a reason I said what I said I said what I said Mr Becker okay and that's what I wanted everyone to know Miss Williams well I just want to say I didn't see your email until last night I also worked a full-time job I don't get reefed because I'm not a member of the council and the the the same question I'm assuming the same um so I I you know I'm not taking it personal but at the same time I think you know recognize that there are also people that particularly um emails that come through Gmail with unrecognized addresses a lot of times they don't even hit my inbox no no that's understandable that's understandable so I just wanted to let you know that that I did I saw it last night and saying with me I still would ask the same questions that I'm asking now okay thank you thank you anybody else from the public I'm not sure if Le Mark wiy 609 East Pine Street with bench development um in regards to the design specifications uh for the public Plaza uh we really went into this at the core of it that the design specifications would be subject to the master development plan process where DRC Planning Commission as well as City commission would have a chance to look at final would have a chance to approve final design um concerns about that certainly would have been a question that we could have addressed and possibly included what we included so when we came here commissioner or council member sorry I I'm in front of our several municipalities we could have addressed that and we've actually as part of our RFP we gave examples of stage focal points and something that we had in mind with the idea that as we went through the process and we're uh with the city staff and that subject to the master development plan process you would have had that opportunity to have any input about hey this the stage is too small this is too big you know and we have every intention although I understand you're leaving us but we have every intention before July 15th of sitting down and saying hey here's our first submission here's comments back from staff do we have anything from you because if we've been anything during this three-year process it's been sitting down meeting with staff trying to find out that situation and agreements and processes that works for everybody so that we have those safety concerns if we have and if we're going to if we if you want to add the number one instead of ah I don't have a problem with that I I mean that's that's easy as far as the design specifications if you want us if we can agree that we'll at least put in what we submitted with the RFP is part of an example of what we have in mind for presenting for the process for you all to approve one more time more than happy to do that yeah and and I I fear that in my line of questioning things get misconstrued a little bit but let me start out by saying I appreciate the provision and the agreement where it talks about cosos won't be issued until the public Plaza pieces are constructed so I appreciate that that's a great Clause to have in the developers agreement and my comment is more to our own staff versus you because play this one out if we're not clear about our minimum viable requirements on what these public Plaza amenities look like and then you go and you submit a design specification that's completely out of the realm of what everybody was thinking inside City Hall okay how many cycles are you going to have to go through to get it right in terms of okay we didn't realize that you had to have these components in the Pavilion oh gosh and then you submit a design it gets rejected you're going through all these iterations of the design and then you realize that your cosos are not going to get issued until the design and public Plaza stuff is constructed the but we won't the design we won't even we won't even be to go through the MD Pro mdp process until the design is actually set and approved by City staff so coo isn't issued until it's built but we won't be proceeding with any construction at all until the design specifications are approved by City staff and then we go and go through the MVP process which I I can't see us uh go into the mdp process before you all have had a the council has had a chance to look at those design specifications I mean to avoid the exact situation that you're uh you're communicating now so so so let me so and and as far as it being completely different than like the concept plan and I hear you what's in the Pavilion I I I can tell you that uh our developer has his own rock band so he's not going to build a stage without you know that sort of thing and lights and Power to all that we've uh communicated with Jim about making sure that you know uh there was been we discussed the CR there's some CR CRA money to make sure that there's electrical underground and power to go ahead and have those sorts of design ement so that we can have all that so uh I'm confident that us and staff is on the same uh on the same wavelength or the same we have this same story or same expectations about you know what's included in uh and what the expectations are for that for the design and the uh and the finished product for the plaza so let me we got I we got four or five things we're kind of talking through and I know our attorney feverishly trying to catch up um a couple things I think we could probably knock out I think Mark was out an attorney is one is the 188a extension we just can we just cross out that last sentence it's a okay okay but there's a sentence that follows that that kind of it's just yeah and I that yeah okay the second thing Mark what if we and Jim what if we had to to commissioner Becker member Becker's point on the the amenities even though it doesn't come back to the the council at this point that in this agreement we just put a sentence in that we the city council has an opportunity before it's approved at DRC that we will have a look at the amenities and and get some kind of a affirmative is that a there we go um again what I mentioned before is that the the mdp itself sit down okay um the mdp itself is that's the opportunity to to approve those amenities as they're presented by by city by city council yes that's that's a normal process for anything we any of these projects that you that you get approvals for for development agreements and things like that I just want to make a finer point for the record and then I'll I'll stop because again this is my concern it's maybe not the rest I don't want to Commander the conversation here but what I'm saying is that and this is a question for the attorney that I would wanted to have earlier so the developers agreement is that the prevailing document document it's a it's a prevailing document in conjunct with your code your comp plan and any other regulations outside of it that would apply obviously law comes first so the scenario that I'm I'm talking through is okay in our developers agreement if we say a word called Pavilion obviously Pavilion may or may not be defined within our Land Development code to certain specifications what have you it just says a Pavilion in a developers agreement right at the time of the major development plan they could put a Pavilion in the major development plan yes but they could put a and again I'm playing devil's advocate here but a 8 by8 Pavilion with a or 10 roof and that's it and assuming it's code compliant I don't know what the code would require but legally speaking they could do that and if we rejected the mdp it would go in circles because we said that well we want something better and say no we're meet the spirit of the developers agreement this that and the other that's the point that I'm making now if that's not shared with the rest of the board fine that but I wanted to articulate specifically what I was getting after to to your point if the Pavilion that was constructed was otherwise code compliant and I don't know I mean for example it would have to probably have hurricane straps it have to be of certain Dimensions the roof would have to be of certain material there's things in the code outside the development agreement that would have to be complied with but if I assume all that then you're you have a point right so I just wanted to document the point and then just but well attorney shephard I appreciate you jumping in really quick I know it's a little hot coming in uh to to confirm are we able to approve this with a couple tweaks variances or changes and then move that and approve that on Council is it as is right now either take it or leave it no I assume that you got the developers rep the podium if the if if you're not asking for exactions which is another issue which I'm not aware of and you're just saying tweaks to this agreement that he's already agreeable to that don't involve taking his property or taking rights away from him the answer is you can do that right here okay that that was my that I wanted to make sure we can do that wasn't an absolute this or nothing so so let's we're are are you comfortable with the amenity piece yeah I mean I I've sted on record as a concern I think it's a valid concern but I'll acest to the to yeah okay the second so the 18 180 day extension attorney says we're good with that it's only one uh a third and then striking the last sentence on last I was I was looking that up because the last the one you're talking about says developer sh off be entitled to any extensions granted under 252 363 and I have to look that up but I suspicion that's for emergency events for example after hurricanes the governor offers extensions that we don't have a choice about we've had to to approve several of them up to three or four years we just did one last week uh but they have not do with us and I I was looking up the statute I believe that's what it's referring to which would have nothing to do with us but have to do with the governor right okay the the next thing was a $50,000 somebody wanted that I think it was commissioner Nesta the $50,000 uh put into the agreement for the impact fee credits it it is in there and it it I was wrong it was just a question I had earlier but it it specifically does say in there in the form of impact fee credit so so continuity of thought here uh Mr Shephard so in the recital under letter L it talks about a higher level the city intends to support the project through conand of a portion of the property to developer and payment of developer of a portion of developer development cost attributed to the public Plaza okay Mr hit was saying that the the spirit of that is later on in the document talks about a $50,000 uh contribution to the public Plaza development what I want to make sure that is this doesn't the recital L doesn't keep open uh an opportunity for further costs to be associated with our our our commitment meaning we cap it at the 50,000 that we talk later on in the developers agreement recital L seems very open-ended to me yeah the first yeah the first portion of the sentence is in regards to the uh lot a or lot lot one uh going to the developer and then the second portion um says a payment to the developer um of a portion of the development developers costs attributed to the public Plaza and I that that's one that I thought was attributed to the uh The Pavilion cost of $50,000 if if the concern is that quote a portion of developers development cost Tribble to the plaza is not well enough defined we can put if the developer has a or his representative has a not a number in mind that we could do as a not to exceed if that's the concern that's easy enough to add in I just don't know what the number is it's 50,000 if it's 50,000 would would it not toce ,000 it's it's not a payment of 50,000 it's 50,000 in in recreational impact fee credits right and and would would the not exceed number of 50 in those credits be sufficient okay for you be perfectly fine I mean and that's you said you give us 50 we're gonna take 50 I mean you want to say not to exceed okay no that's perfectly fine it's like ah and one talking about comment right like letter L it just seemed open end of the plan so okay right okay so the cliff the biggest I guess the biggest problem that member Williams had is how we get the property back in case of default the I was writing that and then I gotor uh but uh under paragraph M uh where they have the remedy section um what would be added there again assuming the acquiescence of the developer um would be in addition to these remedies uh should there be a default that is not cured within the time frames that are set forth in the document which in this case I think is uh 30-day opportunity to C cure uh that the property which I think is partial a in the document would automatically revert to the uh City that's called a reverter clause uh it's obviously subject to challenge by the developer if they don't believe they are in default but that is how that works we I recently went through a reverter lawsuit involving of all things the light not the Lighthouse the first aid lifeguard station in Jack's Beach that had a reverter clause and so that's how it works they at the time the Red Cross said we didn't breach it but later on they gave us the lighthouse or the the the station so that's how that works but it can be litigated so even by putting it in there it doesn't mean they're saying oh you're right but but if the cause for reverter I.E the default is provable by us then we would get the property back one quick question related to that too with respect to the deed um with respect to the deed is there anything that could be added in the deed as far as property is the reverted Clause would be not only here but in the deed that's what I wanted to check as well yes ma'am and then also with the um which section is it Jim where the assignment rights are I think it's under conveyance as well let's see it's on um section seven yeah section seven conveyance a lot one what page um page seven as well page seven yep section seven page seven conveyance of blot one is what the section you're talking about yes in that in the sentence which uh speaks to how the conveyance shall occur via Quick Claim Deed can we add that specifically note I don't know if you want to also know note there that the de will have that reverted clause and then my other question related is um right now there the developer can assign this agreement but my understanding is there was supposed to be a limitation where the agreement could be assigned to a related uh special purpose entity but not just an outright assignment to anybody else without the city's consent yeah the the the assignment on a case like this to a single purpose entity for liability and tax purpose is fairly common but but if it was as long as it's held by the same entity that's doing the development that's normal but to give the rights and everything else to somebody else that you haven't vetted don't know anything about that should require your approval yeah and that does not um as it's written yeah I see that yeah okay so if it's not a developer controlled special purpose or single purpose however they want to call it entity then you would want a a council or CRA approval exactly yep thank you okay is that answer all of our concerns so are we going to be able to vote on this I'm okay with just the SB I you know and then if if we want to give it to somebody else or try to assign it to somebody else it's going to require City approval not a problem that's easy enough to do I just have to to type the language but everything we've talked about about I've done multiple times for other agreements not a problem okay all right so we're good well I don't know if anybody else wanted to speak on this matter from the public anybody else want to speak on this one okay we'll close the public hearing and look for a motion to approve the development agree agreement for the Station Street project with those Corrections do we actually say all the all the changes that we've made on this agreement I I so the motion just needs to articulate the changes that were made corre have to if if the motion includes all the changes that were agreed to between the council or the CRA board and the developer or his representative at the podium I know what that means because thankfully I walked in at the time where I could write them all down and I'll get them to you so I get all that no problem and and I'm sure that that the lawyer for that side will review my work and make sure I got everything right but yeah no problem and then we'll get a final copy clean copy all right okay definitely all right so move got a motion by commissioner Smith or member Smith second second by member Velasquez all those in favor all opposed motion carries n all right this is a quick one okay bud [Music] evening thank you um we have resolution number 20241 to amend the community redevelopment budget for fiscal year 2024 in the amount of $180,000 during the year we did receive an excess amount of Ador tax revenue for fy4 and we do have a need for those funds to cover a shortfall of the skate park and pump track project that is actually coming in at 500,000 versus the 400,000 that we have budget so we want to allocate um 100,000 of that 180 to that project the other 80,000 will be going towards the apaka downtown Trail so we just want to incorporate those funds in the CRA budget which takes it from a 4 point $163 million budget to a $ 4.34 three million budget overall okay any questions for blanch anybody from the public wish to speak on this matter not we close the public hearing look for motion to approve resolution 2024 d01 so moved got a motion by member Nesta second second by member Smith all those in favor I'll oppos motion carries an thank you all right we're going to have to take a while they get it rewound we'll take about a 5 minute break so they can get the uh the uh tape back up running for the regular city council meeting thank you