##VIDEO ID:jXtcKMtfpm8## e e e e e e e okay um welcome everyone today is Monday September 23rd 2024 and this is a regular meeting of the city of Asbury Park planning board chairman goonan please call this meeting to order Yep this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the coaster and Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on a municipal bull bulletin board and Municipal website all notices are on file with the board secretary official action may be taken on the following matters before this board fire exits are located on the east and west sides of council chambers as well as the back of the building I will ask everyone with a cell phone or other device to kindly silence your device for the duration of this meeting this meeting is being recorded by APV please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance flages stand one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all I will now take roll call James Bano here councilwoman Clayton is present um Eric galipo here Jim Henry here Jeremy Hoffman is absent this evening mayor Moore here Daniel shano here Jen saer here Vice chair goonan here and chairwoman Barbara KAC is absent this evening all right uh we have two applications on the agenda for tonight it's a lot to get through so uh we're going to get started with 1210 Springwood Avenue the memor Center uh Jen is going to J um but we have six eligible people to vote so we are all set to go take six eligible they okay certifi just just before we start couple we don't have a resolution to approve we don't have any we do not business okay straight into Dan has a resolution so he asked me um and I understand that mayor Moore uh you're certifying that you listen to the records from the prior meetings watch and listen Okay and um Eric you've also listened to as well yeah okay so everyone here is eligible excent thank you very much John marora for the applicant Interfaith neighbors um when we were last here I'm sure those who were here anyway we call uh we got through quite a bit of testimony uh we'll be quick tonight I I don't want to give short shrip if you have questions certainly we'll pull back and uh and answer whatever you want but we'll put in put in our testimony fairly quickly because I believe Mr avakian's letter um closed the loop on a couple of open questions so with that I'll just turn it over to Mr fitzerald to complete the testimony that he began at the last hearing okay yeah swear or affirm that the testimony you'll provide this evening will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and if you can just state your name and spell your last name for the record yes William E Fitzgerald Fitz G Al okay and you've been sworn in the past for this year these year right thank and qualified right so so when I was last testifying I think we had pretty much discussed both the engineers and planners earlier review letters and agreed that we would comply with everything through everyone's satisfaction and it seemed that the only open item that that Sam had was the the concept of a uh of a construction sequencing and maybe traffic control and so I I prepared two exhibits one of them is up on the board one will be by stat by state St statute one of the sheets of the erosion andent control plan must have a sequence on a construction sequence so naturally we try to make it accurate because people rely on it for inspections typically or other uh activities during construction the sequence typically has various activities during construction getting ready Etc and then a time frame associated with it so what I've prepared for you tonight is our antici what will be the anticipated construction sequence on that plan however because it's an exhibit I've embellished it a little bit to make it easier to digest quickly so all of my notes are remarks are at the end because I thought of them after I put it all together but here's what's going on there on this particular exhibit the black Print is what will actually appear on the erosion sentiment control and each of those items will have a time frame with it once I sit down with the architect and possibly contractor and get all that squared away the blue next to larger headings kind of break the construction activity into a sequence of three items getting the site ready doing the demo and clearing doing the actual Improvement construction and under each of those I have several categories or activities listed the red apply specifically to this site for your purposes to try to address any specific interest you have so I I think I would think the most important thing to address is getting the site ready and how we control traffic and for this particular site what we anticipate is keeping Springwood Avenue pedestrian traffic traffic open and we would do that because I would suggest taking the one tree out and filling in the tree planting area with concrete temporarily that way that's safe to walk on and construct scaffolding and fencing around the fencing around the entire site scaffolding like you see in the city I'll show you an example one in a minute uh to protect the Springland Avenue sidewalk there are no there is no Park along the Westerly side of uh of Avenue a and along the Northerly side of Adams so we feel that we can close both of them off to pedestrian traffic and bring the fencing pretty much out the protective fencing pretty much out to the curb and we would do a traffic control plan which I'll get into a little more detail in a second Atkins we really have no construction activity within feet of the sidewalk other than bringing our internal sidewalk out to meet the current side existing sidewalk within the rway so again what we plan to do is put the fence right along the property rway line on Atkins Avenue I don't know I've never really gone into detail on this kind of a thing uh with a board but I mean as I said basically it's all about getting the site ready which is your traffic controll and pedestrian uh protections doing the Demolition and clearing at which point you put in right before that your erosion siment control stuff once that's all in place and and the s's ready then you just build your construction improvements I have another example just to uh illustrate okay so what I have on this particular exhibit uh is a typical sidewalk they call it temporary shedding scaffolding whatever you want to call it but it it has fencing right up against the construction and overhead protection should Things Fall inadvertently as as things are being constructed but allows for pedestrians to go underneath typically they are a minimum of 5 ft wide with a minimum of 8T of Headroom which seems like there be no problem we will also be doing uh to comply with requirements and also to make sure everybody is on board uh a a traffic pedestrian traffic control plan and as necessary a vehicular traffic control plan there'll be some work uh along the curve lines of um of of Springwood Avenue and along the curve line of of of Avenue A and so those would require some temporary vehicular traffic control just to be sure everything is safe so the manual ununiform traffic control devices uh has typical traffic control designs this is just the typical one I pulled out of the manual this is more uh geared toward pedestrian control and this one includes a temporary Crossing which I think we would do along the southerly side of uh of atams because if you recall there's a restaurant on the corner of Adams and Avenue a and so one could cross from the uh from the Westerly side of of Avenue a to the easterly side of Avenue a at the corner that the restaurant's on with a temporary cross crosswalk other than that the the the symbols that you and signs and barricades and all you must use are all spelled out in the manual and uniform traffic control devices and we would employ them and per Sam's recommendation we coordinate that with the city Department of Public Works but I would also contact the police department especially the traffic Bureau because they may have some input that would be valuable so other than that we have no problem complying with any of that or anything else um and I haven't answered any questions yet so so is the shed just the shed WRA around the corner the sh okay so the shed would go it doesn't go around the corner I'm envisioning it I mean I'm open to suggestions so the hatch but they hatch oh that that that's just I'm not that's their symbol I'm not sure what that that has nothing that's not our specific site that's just a typical traffic control plan pulled out of we have to do it to a plant it should it should be lit night is it liting oh yeah it have to be safe certainly so uh we can we can is going to be on Spring yes along Springwood Frontage of the site right right against the building facade because the other the other g walk is closed we're going to yeah there's no reason not to close with safety issues uh Adams and Avenue a as I said there's no parking on on the the frontages of the site so doesn't really so i' say thank you for providing this uh a standard condition of approval as always to have a pre-construction meeting with yeah James and there's other F officials there right no just me just you so um do you have any yeah as long as you provide a site plan and I could see everything I want to know the estimated amount of months it'll take for construction and what time of year you to do construction and any if any uh Street space you plan to use whether it's parking or Street space during the project if there's anything you need a crane for uh and you know you're going be using Street space I just need to know where you're planning and put it and generally estimate when okay I haven't got all of that I I explained that'll all be here um yeah we that's not during the planning board you'll do that after you get corre approval you'll come to me and we'll have a discussion about that but you'll have to provide that no problem at all and Sam was there anything else from your end no I think that it's positive to keep springboard open I did is it only one tree that would be removed I Adams and avue way we close the sidewalks on both of them so no I think think it's possible and that tree was going to be removed anyway right right okay um and then as far as the storm water management and know we talked about it a lot last time P letter yeah I was able to review it all Bill discussions that think more than adequate okay great thank you um do we need to get these guys swor in D and St you swear affirm that any testimony you provide this evening will be the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth I do right thank you um any other questions from the board for this witness so did you have anything else no only the audience I haven't answered any questions from the audience yet great U and and uh just before we do that Donna and Sam any other questions from you guys no thanks all right uh any questions from the audience for this Witness um yeah you can get up and go to theone you have questions for this witness after testimony is done we'll have a period of public comment where members of the public can provide uh their opinions about the project but for now it's just questions from this witness Ivon Clayton um excuse me my concern is for the building next door to the construction and has a brand new roof I want to know how this building is going to be protected during your construction well how many feet are we from the line 5 ft I think we are from the property line correct no we only have okay I think the AR can answer that better it's really all there is is an alley between them uh it's possible to put up netting or scaffolding uh to protect but we don't have that much room on our site I don't believe it it's got to all be done pretty tightly maybe what we can do is sit down and meet because if if they can erect netting or scaffolding that overlaps onto that property just temporarily while they're putting up do everything you need to protect it but they need your your approval to do that you there's a concern because the debris anything that could fall off the building materials tools and as I said it is a new roof that has just been constructed and plus we'll be doing other work so I just want to know what your plans are you if you don't have an answer tonight that's fine but no but we would we can sit down with you and talk through that to make sure that you're comfortable okay I think that would be a good way to go about it so traditionally you would put up some type of meting if you're this close to this city also the contractor L preconstruction meeting but if it were to be approved additionally they have all theol performance something to to the roof have well performance bonds not going to cover their right so it wouldn't something were to occur respons that would be respons but we don't want anything do it correct yeah we want to try and avoid anything happening so thank you anyone else from the public questions for this Witness [Applause] oh we did John had one question for you before you go um go ahead watching the tape and the film for the garbage room you said 1165 gon Robo cans and for the recycling 1665 Robo cans the ordinance doesn't say how many gallons but the ordinance does say because you said it may be a city pickup you're not sure yet the cans cannot weigh more than 60 lb correct so DPW as much as it's not in the ordinance does recommend 55g cans so I just want that okay I have no problem I can I put that on there because I have a 64 gallon can and I I can tell you we don't load it past 60 pounds but if they recommend that it's not a problem stipulate that as well do you have anyone else for us today um the board had questions about lighting this will be very brief I promise our lighting expert um we could just bring him up Jason Bradshaw f all right while we're waiting for that one you identify yourself for the record yeah I swear you scat you swear you or affirm that the testimony you're about provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and if you just again state your name and uh spell your last name for the record please yep my name is Jason Bradshaw uh b r a d s h a w you want to qualify yeah just explain your credentials any your relation to the project absolutely so um I'm a lighting designer for BTD I've been a lighting designer for the past nine years um I hold my LC lighting certified professional uh certification from the ncqlp and I was uh hired to design the the exterior lighting for this project present him as an expert in lighting great thank you thank you okay why don't you explain uh then specifically the board was question about the exterior lighting yeah um do you want me to give you a brief walkthrough of the lighting of the project to start with um so the design intent for the lighting was to provide safe and secure lighting while not over lighting for the project location uh we start with erress lighting and then have some minimal building accent lighting um and lighting for the balconies um diving into it where we have the ESS where we have a solid wall solid partition we have a wall pack um mounted to the wall need near or above the door uh this is a down light only light um low glare and it really just lights the area of the path that needs to be illuminated um on the Springwood a corner um with the main front facade we have a full glazed wall so we mounted a linear flexible light at the shelf that juts out from the architecture um it'll Trace that form in that shape and that is the rd1 on the plans um its main function is egress lighting but like I said it does have the added benefit of providing minimal accent to the building to provide a nice Frontage to the the building uh moving to the walkway two and through the covered parking area we have one pole light outside of the parking area to provide again really focus light on that ESS path and then once you're inside the covered portion we have the sd3 which is a just a ceiling mounted cylinder downl light that again focuses light primarily on the path of e um it also is a benefit of providing a visual break between the garage and the building itself really defining that pedestrian Zone and then within the the garage we have typical garage Style lumines low glare um and we have them spaced in order to meet the the township ordinance of the 05t candles um one of the challenges of this project was the proximity of the property line to the building so in order to meet code required lighting we had to exceed the 0.1t candles at the property line in order to provide the code required amount of lighting uh we've noted that where we have it on the plan and we've limited it to those areas and then additionally at the garage in order to meet the minimum leting in the garage specified by the ordinance we had to exceed the the property line value once again um to help put everyone at ease and to show that we're really not adding a significant amount of light to the property um to the A we did provide a street lighting plan that shows the existing lighting levels we did have to make some assumptions on the lamping of the uh exterior lights but it's well within your normal typical Township light um and if you compare the two you'll see that the amount of light that our building is providing with the lighting is minimal compared to minimal or equal to the the lighting provided by the street lighting that exists already um the next sheet goes through the different uh calculations that we ran and the statistics for those calculations um it goes through each of the the luminares and provides a description for them and it shows that they are either all no uplight um in compliance with dark sky or if there is a minimal amount of uplight that is undercover so like in the garage the garage light has a minimum amount of up light but since it's covered none of that will escape into the sky so all of the the lighting does meet dark sky requirements um in addition all the lighting we're proposing is 2700 Kelvin uh except for the street lighting which I understand is the typical pole for Springwood Avenue um that is 3,000k um in in our calculations we did adjust for all the the outputs the color temperature um and any other anomalies to be able to provide a realistic understanding of what elimination levels are on the ground and then just very quickly the upper levels we have fairly simple uh surface mounted down lights at the trellis structures and recess down lights where we do have a building over hang um again these are downl only and they are really targeted at the balcony floor area themselves and will not provide additional light Beyond so in terms of the engineering questions I know that there were a few um just those I do think you and your professional opinion is this uh lighting satisfactory for this project absolutely does it provide any spillage that you would consider excessive no okay Mr chairman I have nothing further for the witness then there was a question about uh spring was about the secondary if you wanted opaque opaque glass right about the yeah about the lighting the light inside the building light inside the building that could be shining through the windows in the EG did you design the interior lighting at all just the exterior we have not designed the interior lighting but what we can do is ensure that it's a specification gray Luminaire with a nice glare free cross the lens and also it can have an occupancy sensor that dims it when it's not in use so that way it dims down to a low level and it's not obtrusively bright so I that would be trans first we're talking about transparent glass right illuminated that met out the street corre so so I want whether to be panels or to do something with light so it would not come out to the street for so we had we had decided last time D to make it a condition they had to mitigate light spillage from stairwell one um so they'll have to come up with a plan that will have to be approved by CCH during resolution compliance right and just for the so that we're understanding what the goal is I do want to recommend that we maintain a a clear transparent glass in that stairwell it's a safety thing um we might be able to do something with uh either narrowing the paint of glass or doing two panes one's clear one's PR or or opaque um but I think think the best solution is to design lighting for within that stairwell that like you said can be dimmer when it's not occupi yeah and again meets our our objective which is not to be uh visible from the outside of the building as being you know obtrusive right I assume it can't be emotion I I I don't know as an emergency egress if it has to stay eliminated it can be on sensor um it can be motion as far as I know I just don't think it can go off which is why I would suggest it dim down to a very low level any other questions from the board of this witness any questions from our professionals does anyone from the public have questions for this Witness all right our last witness is our planner Jim Higgins who will take you through the variant proofs good evening evening Mr higgon you swear from the testimony you're about to provide with the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and again if you could state your name and spell your James W Higgins hi GG NS I am a licensed planner in the state I've been licensed for about 45 years and my license is current I think you've been accepted by this board in the past yes I have by this board and the Zoning Board in Asbury Park propose Mr Higgins as an expert in planning yes thank you thank you Jim I'll suspend the question and answer just take a a run through yeah well this site is located in the neighborhood commercial section of the Springwood Avenue Redevelopment plan and it's an unusual site in fact it's Unique within that neighborhood commercial area because it has four Street frontages as opposed to most of the the other properties in that zone either have two Street frontages or Corner Lots or one street Frontage if they're an interior lot and what the ordinance requires is that the building have a z foot front setback which makes sense along Springwood Avenue and spring the uh the plan really wants to create an atmosphere that's pedestrian friendly along Springwood Avenue which this application does by placing the building with a zero foot front setback along Springwood Avenue uh the other streets there are you have Avenue a and uh Adams Avenue Avenue a the building is set back 3.5 ft from the RightWay line from the front line and along at Avenue it's 5 ft and the reason for that is that during preliminary discussions with Municipal officials at at various times it was suggested that maybe some Landscaping should be put along those right of Rights of way to soften The View and I think actually makes it more pedestrian friendly than having the buildings right up on the property line so I think that's an advantage there and then when you go to uh Atkins Avenue there's the building is set back about 39 ft and the reason for that is to allow for the community garden which again is a substantial benefit I think in this instance both aesthetically and functionally it helps meet the needs of the neighborhood residents and that's one of the purposes of the uh of the commercial the neighborhood commercial Zone in in this District so when I look at that and I look at the other benefits that this application is providing including the museum including providing housing for again a variety of income levels in the city two of those units will be affordable units and four of them will be market rate units and again that goes towards the the goals of the uh the Redevelopment plan which is to uh to provide the availability of adequate and appropriate housing alternatives for neighborhood residents of all income levels so when I look at that I think there are substantial benefits to the granting of the application as it's presented including the variances that are being requested and I don't see any substantial negative impact what you have there is an unslightly vacant property right now and this will actually enhance the zone and enhance the the area the neighborhood in which it's located I think there are substantial benefits and no substantial negative impacts anything further no okay uh any questions from the board questions from our professionals any questions from the public of this witness all right thank you very much thank you anyone else for us tonight no no that'll be I just want one clarification actually all eight units will be affordable to but pursuant to the state standard and then six the federal HUD standard so what we're calling Market units are still actually affordable pursuant to uh HUD regulations rather than state regulations okay um let's open up for a public comment then uh I make motion to open for public comment second all in favor any opposed great so anyone from the public if you have comments about this uh this application you have three minutes you can say whatever you'd like uh about about this application so you can go up to the microphone great hello Jen saer 1403 3rd Avenue um also board president of the a park African-American music project that owns the adjacent building that's on that lot um I just want to make a comment and do you have to swear yeah oh yeah sorry you swear affirm that the testimony of provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth yes I uh and just spell your last name j s is in Sam o u d is in David E R thank you um I just like to make a a couple comments one um we appreciate the uh attention that's been the changes that have been made to the design um through the course of this process and um I just want to reiterate the concern regarding protecting the Turf Club during construction we know that it's a very very tight um that the that the whole construction process is very tight our our property lines are very very close um and so we want to do everything that we can to work with Interfaith to protect the Turf Club during construction um in a in whatever mechanis we can use because we know that it's going to be uh we're going to be neighbors and it's really important that we work together but also um the building is going through historic um designation process and there's a lot of things happening on our site as well so we want to be very careful um to work together for to protect in every way that we can um and figure out ways to do that preemptively uh a second comment which is I know I last meeting we talked about this a small thing but the trees on Atkins and there was a concern I think about I think there's a Coler uh species proposed I don't know where it ended up but there was a concern about shade on the community garden I just wanted to say I don't I do not share that concern I think that the street trees especially the ones proposed would not present a problem in terms of shading that area and that the street trees there actually are um pretty important because it does get very hot along that street and um so just wanted to make that comment and I think that yes that's it thank you thank you thank you J anyone else with comment motion to close second all in favor hi any post great um so board members thoughts uh anything you want to discuss about this project where did we land with the trees on the on ains Avenue because I agree with with what uh Jen just said the shade Tre is more beneficial to the streetscape and everything in the area rather than just a garden we landed on uh we were going to make a condition we need to coordinate Street trees with the board planner and the shade tree commission okay we have no problem with that as a condition do that work anyone else from the board comments concerns okay um so I have a a list of conditions that we' come up with um so I'm going to throw these out there and then if anyone has anything to add or anything we should take out um we can go from there um so it's actually pretty long listed conditions one was there you guys would agreed there would be addition of public art in coordination with the public art commission uh you would submit a checklist of Green Building initiatives um there needs to be adequate maintenance of the perious payment system pavement system um need to mitigate light spillage from stairwell one which we just discussed um utilities need to be underground we need to coordinate you need to coordinate Street trees with the man and shade tree commission um completion of the off-site parking agreement and one that I I just added that we can discuss is uh a plan to protect the Surf Club during construction um to be approved at the pre-construction meeting I think that last one should just be in general neighboring property yeah what's that I think that last one just should be in general neighboring properties not just neighbor properties specifi any specific property great anything else okay now it's okay anything else we need to include uh okay um I'm going to make a motion to approve this application with the conditions I just listed second James Bano yes Eric Alo yes Jim Henry yes mayor Moore yes Daniel sheno yes Vice chair gonan yes all right thank you we appreciate your time I think uh we came to a good place with working together but thank you very much um why don't we take a five minute break and then we're going to go to the Delta Town housee development uh motion to take a break all in favor I hello everybody I'm going to take roll calls so we can get back to order um James banano councilwoman Clayton oh yes here um Eric galipo here Jim Henry here Jeremy Hoffman is absent mayor Moore here Daniel sheno here Jen saer here Vice chair mikeon here and chairwoman Barbara kach is absent this evening uh our next application is the Del Delta Town House Development take us away great so just for the record before we start um Eric galipo and mayor Moore have both signed certifications so everyone here is qualified to continue to listen and if that's necessary tonight deliberate any final decision thank you very much so we were here last on September 9th and at that time we had gotten through the architecture testimony but there was a question about the renderings has viewed from web street so we we are going to ask our architect to go through that in just a moment just to sort of cap off his testimony since that was an open question from last time I will say we still have several witnesses to get through this this evening uh including our landscape architect our civil engineer and our planner um and specifically where there's questions about where the driveways line up with houses on the other side of web street that will be addressed by our civil engineer so those questions if they come up now are really more for the civil engineer just kind of giving that as a as a preview uh so with that I would like to recall our architect Adrian melan and you you understand you're still under oath from the last hearing yes and you swear affirm the testimony you're about to provide tonight will be the truth the whole truth and not quite the truth yes I do and again uh just for the record if you can just uh state your name and spell your L sure it's Adrien media m e l i a right when you were here last you presented depictions of each of the sides of the development except for along web Street uh I'd like to Mark what you have up on here as exhibit I believe we're up to A4 if you could describe what this is uh and how it depicts how the buildings may be looked how the buildings may look along web Street okay so um this view of the proposed project is uh looking across web's Street to the east um it's zoomed out so that you can see all three buildings up front onto web um Eighth Avenue is to uh the left and Seventh Avenue is to the right uh the street trees have just been omitted for clarity there are Street trees here there's five of them proposed uh there'll be one in front of the four story town home fronting on eth there'll be two in front of the three-story town home in the center of the block there'll be two more in front of the four story frontting hunted 7 again it's just an additional view uh for the benefit of the neighbors because we didn't have this the last meeting okay and the building along web street that is the three-story building correct yes those are all the questions that I have for architect this grassy area doesn't exist right there's homes no yeah just just to be clear again this is this is a more reasonable view of what you'll see from the sidewalk across the street but just to get the whole context in just for the public sure we knew where okay all right um so I know that last time we didn't get to questions from the public for you um but before we do that do does anyone from the board have uh any questions for this witness about any of his texure uh testimony about architecture that we haven't discussed yet questions from our professionals about architecture so all right so let me take this in um so we have the two four-story buildings on the extreme left and extreme right of image right and those are the the Decks that overhang the garages that project out at the second level okay and then uh okay so there's no um hang on so there's no meters there's no um water sprinkler closets on these the four story facades on this on this side is that correct correct the civil engineer can go into greater detail but they're on the sides of the the three story which is conceal with Landscaping okay but the four story ones are not on this Frontage is that correct correct now done say again she's I believe she's asking now there's no there's no sprinkler room on that building correct on this end correct okay for and for those four story buildings The Meters would be on the Eastern sides of the buildings yes I have a question so the front facades of the buildings you try to you know articulate a differentiate between next to the other but the are all the same no no differentation so this kind of picture I I mean I don't know from web Street if it looks like that like Pary view but seems like so much of the readers of these buildings are in fact visible somewhat that there's no different Lo thank you very well said so if you if you change the view you know zoom in tighter like you had shown before if this was really and we were at this side so yeah that's what you're going to see from that part of web Street looking into the driveway yeah as far as articulation goes they're stepped okay but as far as you know uh the treatment and fenestration they're they're all similar colors could be they could alternate in this view they're all the same but there's no reason why we couldn't alternate them and are there no um partitions so it's a deck and then there's a space and then another deck so they don't actually touch each other or are there any that are actually they're separated it's not one continuous deck but don't privacy no they're a distance between the decks in connection with the prior uh rendering that you put up there where your comment was uh all the grass does not exist in that rendering is it fair to say that the two cars depicted are on web Street correct yes okay so which really what you're talking about is uh quite distorted view from that the bottom half of that uh rendering can be ignored you pick up at the cars that web Street and you see the buildings exactly it's it's only zoomed out so you can see all three buildings in one image but the reality is if you're standing on the sidewalk on web facing this property uh if you're standing in the middle of the Block it's more likely that this is your view and if you're standing closer to the end it's more like that you're going to be facing directly toward the the four story and the driveway so you're not you're never really going to see this entire block as shown on the screen it's going to be quite a bit closer to what you just put up correct if you zoom in zoom in yeah depending on where you're you're standing on web you're only going to see a portion of the overall image okay so the cars there are are really what you're looking at and what's behind them basically that's what you see from web correct and again the street trees aren't shown but there'll be five Street trees along this Frontage so I'm just thinking to another another project we had where um because there is going to be this whole row of cars parked in front of the garages didn't we put put an architectural wall up yeah anything should be there the uh that was a Kingsley Frontage and that had a you know more impactful streetcape um you know not to say that's not warranted necessarily here but um you know it's side street compared to the Avenue all right can we see a closeup of the buildings that are on the end without the one that's in the center so right here yeah do you have a full view of that s right those those were shown at the the first meeting we have views of every um elevation like a p up this should probably be going back into A2 which was the submitted architectural plans so you're you're asking for the view of the four story strings yes a second I don't think we yeah that so here we go so so that's these are these elevations of the four stories on the corner minus this is this is the side that faces interior with the sprinkler closet and this is the side that faces the street so this would be the elevation um on the right side of the original exhibit I showed so this is what the Neighbors on the other side of the street are going to see boring um with the exception of the there there's no perola on the strings on on fronting onto web and and it might be helpful if you could go back through no Landscaping nothing just so we do have the landscape architect up next who will talk about the landscaping around the buildings this is just an elevation view it just shows the building not in its setting Donna's report also points out that the lack of sort of turning the corner creates on multiple frontages this sort of dead so if you want to maybe go back to the renderings that we had at the beginning the so the park are on the two corners on but correct okay so we do have our landscape architect as I said who is going to show these buildings in the context of the landscaping that's proposed around each one and that is our next witness up um I know uh you're who's going to talk about lighting lighting will be largely our civil engineer they'll be the okay third witness up today so um but also for clarity this rendering doesn't depict uh any exterior light fixtures this is just effectively the buildings there's no disk shot here I mean if we zoom in you can see there's a light at the entry of each one okay what about on the decks signage and then the decks you can see there's some at the garage door and then the decks so is there anything board members would like to see potentially changed in the architecture I Know Dan just mentioned [Music] like yeah variation of color materials in the rear um if that's something you guys would be amenable to maybe you could show us options Michael I want to you bring up about the wall something of the street that the first to to to Shield the parking spes mhm I I mean I mentioned that I don't know if that's something people think should should be there not well Donna brought that up in her report yes well not on web Street um that's on the Avenue inside um well if if you look at item 1 point2 in your uh report I think you pretty much cover the whole facade all the facades of the building of all the buildings seems to make this about like the sides of the buildings we talking about she's talking what was as I read Donna's report item 1.2 on page one of her report she talks about all the facades of the building not being uh very friendly to the street agreed but I think our recommendation short of actually creating a corner building was at sth in Kingsley and eighth in Kingsley to connect those two frontages the front of the Avenue facing building and the Kingsley facing building to be connected by a wall um similar to what was recommended at um py site across from the Berkeley um and at um the Baltic and the aan where we did the seat wall all along ber right right to connect the two sites and create that streetcape um so when should we talk I guess that's not AR the difficulty on the web Street side and I know we haven't got really to the engineering side of this yet but these buildings are very close to the property line um I don't know that we we have room for a wall on web to do the screening it um I mean I like the idea uh but there are some sight distance problems there are some you know just Logistics that might be problematic for that it connection with that but not specifically to what the architect has said uh your comments concerning your views from uh webstream and the uh the concept that you what you see from web is the garages uh primarily from uh seventh and eighth Avenues you can eleviate part of that uh you have uh I don't know what the sou sorry yeah the southerly most building that the the side is on web if you look the one the building on the right hand side that is parallel to uh 7th Avenue if you change that and make it parallel to Eighth Avenue as you since web is One Way North you will see less of the garages assuming somebody riding in a car looks to the right normally you w you won't look past 90 de so if you make this parallel rather to 8th Avenue rather than sth Avenue you'll shorten that view of those garages I apologize which which building are you suggesting should be parallel look if you look at the submission that uh uh dated September 13th shows a layout of the of the uh buildings and the uh interior roadway talking about building number one right along seventh AV along sth Aven you see that is parallel to 7th Avenue as you ride up seven uh I'm sorry ride up web what you see when you look to the right is you see the building uh the garages if you take and change that and make it parallel to eight you shorten the view view that you will see from the car you mean parallel to West no he's saying parallel there's one that's parallel to trying to say that the building angle right now what I'm saying is the angle of the building connection with that it's following the street line rather than I see what you're saying the inter but it feels like it should follow the street line agreed should okay maybe it should but if you want to hide the view of those garages it's a simple matter of just changing the angle simple there may be another way we can help both for the garage but to rotate the building has a lot of logistical issues but I understand your comment you want to screen the driveway as best we can why is it logistical why is it a logistical problem just because of the way town homes are constructed you want to rotate the building if I understand you correctly yeah so it would need to be con constructed independently or there would be a gap between the buildings where you're rotating them it's the same way the building except you change the location of the green spaces between the building right I could have our civil address the why the buildings are spaced that way for the drive AES yeah I I think there's an advantage to having the building Front sth Avenue so you know maybe there's a different opportunity to to screen those garages rather than rotate the building um one of one so Jim brought this up too so um and and it's in Donna's report this the sides so specifically the sides of the four-story buildings the corners of Kingsley and seventh Kingsley and eth um you know I know some some clearly has been made to to wrap the Kingsley Street Frontage around the side but you still do end up with a lot of blank wall um and I would just wonder if there is any opportunity to to kind of Donna said it well to wrap the frontage around the corner a little bit more I believe on the um the one on the corner of sunset in Kingsley what we asked was for a secondary door on the corners yes is that correct there's an entry door that faces the opposite street from where the building faces right and I think we did a similar thing with the Toll Brothers project too yes cookman and Lake yeah yeah and there's also something that's a little bit atypical about the site plan here which is the alignment of the buildings on 7th Avenue are parallel to the property line which is not typical and so when you look at the site plan if go here um this isn't going to show it very well do you have one that show there's one that has the site plan over the aerial we that will be yeah that yeah so the typical Arrangement is that this corner of the building would be aligned to the prevailing setback here and so these people who have lost is their view shed down the so there's like a thing about this should be parallel or should ENT you should have a wider Gap at the last building than the I'm calling it the last building than the first building so I will just say this particular exhibit we haven't actually presented yet it will be presented by our civil engineer just for the record it hasn't been testified to yet but it will it's been submitted and it will be testified by our engineer but this speaks to the issue of this blank facade because if somebody is approaching from this angle this blank facade will be the most visible because of the angle of this block of buildings could you CH for the ground floor to make the entrance actually at the corner slice off the corner I mean I'm sure they don't want to but I know Eric so I will also say that to your point if you change that building and make it parallel to the building on eth you that's exactly what happens and the Green Space uh on the yeah you end up with a wider Green Space here and it shrinks as it comes to this side or it stays there which yeah pushing this corner corner North yeah that's exactly what I said you maintain the view corridor yes and which is something we've been very particular about on a lot of applications all over the city The View corridor down the street is a is a feature of the original City plan and so maintenance of that view corridor I think should be a goal and it would minimize the impact of these as we're calling them blank facades on the web Street Frontage now I understand it probably causes some dimensional issues back here but it's not something I'm told right so we do have our civil engineer who can talk specifically to those dimensional issues that if you of what would happen if you move those buildings back into the drive AES but you also have an angle here that doesn't exist anywhere else on the site so something says to me that it's possible you could shrink this Edge it it resembles what's happening on the other side of the street and we'll have our civil engineer because I I do want to make sure that we have the right professional testifying about the site constraints and layout and that is coming this evening I will say however that the layout of this block and the design of the corners we were in front of council for many many months refining and refining and refining so it's this is not something that was just thought up overnight it is something that's been worked on by the team and by the TRC by the council over the course of I said last time it took us a year to get from our TRC hearing to the planning board hearing uh which so during that time there's a significant amount of refinement that happened but that said we do we do have our civil engineer I would like to get to him tonight because I think both our landscape architect and civil engineer will be able to answer a lot of these questions um more than just going through the architecture okay you can you can wait well I I think it's fair we're talking at a sort of 30,000 ft level here is again architectural you shed the the concept of this alignment you know the building across the street Rhythm 2027 is not parallel it is angle it's at an angle at an angle to the street line to respect that alignment so um and then I on I guess on the question of architecture I feel that there's too little variation in materiality across the entire facade frontages on all sides um I'm fortunately a little less concerned about the backs of the buildings because they're all interior facing or mostly and so the people who would be experiencing that I would rather more attention be paid to the street side to create variation it's it's an entire city block so what do you like variation of materials and colors between buildings I would I would think some rhythmic to make it more interesting to give it some depth and you know the colors are also quite light the and respectfully the colors have changed at the specific recommendation of the TRC and then the council we've gone through several color pallets here and this was the one that ultimately was approved to get here so it wasn't as if this was the first color palette that came up this was the result of a Year's worth of Direction and I understand color subjective but at some point if we're asked to change it and then we change it and we change it and change it it we reached the point where this is what came through the council and it's and what we're reflecting here is what was ultimately approved after those those changes I respect understood I just don't want anyone to think that this was the first set of colors that was um suggested there was a lot of thought that went into it we appreciate that this has gotten here through many many meetings with the city council and that our job is to decide whether it conforms to the Waterfront Redevelopment plan and approve whether or not that is true or not and so however there is comments in Donna's report that do talk about the lack of variation and whether that is conforming with the Waterfront Redevelopment plan and unfortunately it is a little bit um lacking in uh variety and I was not privy to the conversations nor were we but you know perhaps you know the base color palette was the problem not that there's needs to be you know this broader refinement of that to okay distinguish between the buildings using this pet I think that's fair I like the color palette overall but to Eric's point it is I mean it's the same for all six buildings um it's a big area seems to me like same stuff it yes it also does feel a little bit familiar just do call you know I hate to say it but it looks like an army barracks it really does even the and well there's not a lot of people on WB Street there are people that do live there and they deserve the best we can give them and uh I don't know it just this this does not does not do anything for me and I you know I lived in places that looked like that and they were you know 65 years ago when I was in the army so just to be kind of constructive some of the things I've written down some of our suggestions that you guys can take or leave um was that we're kind of recommending maybe the colors and materials can be a little bit more varied and exciting throughout the project treatment of corners and consideration of the positioning and um orientation of building number one specifically with regards to maintaining the view quarter on Seventh Avenue is there anything else like anything else we might want to ask them to change just the blank walls that are facing web to make them I don't see any plantings I don't see anything that makes any of that those are not shown in and I know it's not shown but if you're asking for suggestions yeah the treatment of the the corners right the corners kind of on all really all Four Corners yeah so we we do have testimony about all of this so respectfully if we could move to allow us to put in the rest of our testimony that may help address some of the concerns that have been raised do that before we do that uh we have to get to public questions so is there anything else from the board for this witness right now before we move on okay um questions or questions from our professionals anything we haven't touched on yet okay um let's open up to questions from the public so um typically questions for the witness are only what they testified to tonight um but we never for questions to this witness uh from last time so anything he's testified to last time or this time um you can ask him about yeah I just have a question in terms of the frontage I'm not an architect so I just want you to help me explain it can you speak into the microph oh sorry I actually do live at the that corner that's going to have that angle spitting out so I'm 301 7th Avenue the corner of sth and web so that's my house in the lower corner across just state your name as well please Ela Rosa 301 7th Avenue corner of web so I am curious in terms terms of um the gentleman on the board I don't know your name but you did raise the point in terms of why that portion is angled to the left versus the other is like perpendicular that's a question and also just again from an architectural standpoint we keep talking about web and that seems like a third of the street to be frank there's 2third of the street that are either driveways or buildings so I don't understand how we're talking about that bit is web but like technically there's large swats of the technical Street are actually on web and that's a like that's the four story side meaning if the frontage is like 40t and the front of 7th Avenue each unit is 20 ft why is it de facto defaulting to the the four story um 7th Avenue height versus a three story on web because a majority of the building is now on web Street does that make sense is are are you getting my question you're asking why don't these building r ends step down to three yeah exactly CU it's maity of that side Frontage seems to be on web and again I'm not an architect I didn't develop the plan but in staying with the city plan it seems like we're trying to keep consistent with the area and to your point City ocean views and breezes and all that good stuff so I just want to understand a little bit about to bew up to eight stories are permitted on Kingsley yes and and I think I and at the corner of web and at the corner of web on theen so that four story ised that in the plan I have the plan up 57 and we will have our planner specifically talk about the heights that are permitted and sorry talk this way back so plans we will have our development control plan and all that correct we will have him discuss where the permitted Heights are but you are correct that there are large portions of this block that could be up to eight stories and we have are only proposing up to four okay so we will get a better answer to that question but from a different witness okay I mean I read I am an attorney by trading I'm just being straight up I read all the plans cover to cover so I don't remember seeing seventh in web Having Eight stories to be frank I'd like to see that hi Karen May 301 8th Avenue um so question for the architect the picture can you go to the the picture with the parklike look from web yeah so we've already agreed and youve you've acknowledged that that green space does not exist because one of the doorsteps is actually nine steps from the sidewalk but visually that small building facing web that's the three-story building visually to me it looks to be almost the same height as the four-story buildings on either side and that you can't see the four-story building that sits behind it what's the we need a question so the qu am I am I interpreting that but am I seeing this correctly because I would think that a three-story building I'd be able to see the four-story building behind it yet I can't this is a perspective view right if it were an elevation view you would see the four-story building behind it so this imagines you're standing on the ground and you're a person the building that would be Beyond it would have to be quite tall in order for you to see it so you are not misinterpreting that this is a three-story building here okay and there is a four-story building Beyond it but the way a camera works you have to think about it like a way a camera works right and so that building that is four stories Beyond it would not be seen in a perspective view but the buildings to the two sides are also four stories and they appear to be the same height that is also a camera thing so as you move away from the center line of the camera the height appears to get shorter interesting however it is a four-story building and a three-story building like that picture of President Carter and his wife and the Obamas and they seem like giants because they're on yeah perspective perspective okay I'm I put numbers in little boxes so um just to answer the question a three story buildings are shorter than night than the yes they are yeah okay and then the Landscaping you said the Landscaping person will be talking later to get into the trees and the actual who answers the distance between the curb the sidewalk and then the buildings that'll be the civil engineer that's the Civil thank you Mike czor 30582 um i' just like to Echo Eric's point on the the seventh AV the setback and maintaining the the corridors line of sight Ju Just understand this is not for comments this is only for questions questions of the architect's testimony from the last Hearing in this evening okay got it um so the setback on 8th Avenue does that mirror the the houses that are on 8th Avenue is that parallel with the houses you guys calculate that I guess I can our civil engineer can testify okay about we haven't got to the site plan yet so when we get to the site plan we'll have a better time to discuss that and and Street wh on 8th Avenue also civil engineer correct ni got it okay thanks hi I'm Neil wood 3007 a um I'm diagonal we're at the southwest corner of sth and web so if you could pull up that uh that perspective again from web so I'm wondering what can indeed be done with those two four story walls that I'll be looking right at to soften them um and I I I don't believe Landscaping is going to cover up a four-story wall my other concern is as one of one of the board members brought up are a couple the rear of the buildings the kind of military bar I was thinking a 1960s Motel really um they look pretty shabby and that's what I'll be staring at as well as a couple other people in this room do do you have a question uh what can be done to soften those walls to start we do have Street trees that will be in front of the buildings so there's going to be two Street trees in front of the building facing seventh and one in front there's only room for one because there's Street poles and so forth there's only one tree in front of this one and there's two trees in front of the three story so there's five total Street trees okay will help Shield a lot of the side elevation okay I don't know that'll be enough but understood and if it's going to remain four stories going down to three would be better as Eileen said but um and as far as architecturally along the back of the buildings the decks and such that we're seeing is there anything that can be done there to make it look less plain I think um we touched on the changing color scheme so alternating color P it's still just going to be straight walls though well they they are stepped they do J in and out so it's not one continuous wall it looks at though so maybe with the color change it could soften it some yeah it's primarily that view that doesn't help but you can see that they are staggered it's just it's obnoxious for everybody on web Street that's it no other questions right now thank you anyone else from the public questions for this witness the last last meeting I was here uh my name is John Frederickson and I live at um um 803 um no 3 no 30 303 thank you I'm sorry uh 303 8th Avenue um and the last meeting when I saw the the thre story buildings they were in the middle of web Street and they were they were right up to the to the end of web Street okay and then there was a building down this way and a building down this way okay um and we were told these were going to be three feet and then the rest was all going to not three feet three stories and the rest was all going to be four stories on these two sides that's not what I see today um I see it if you can go to the the the picture one so it's the same plans last meeting in this meeting so that the site plan and the architectural plans have not changed from last okay well I'm talking about this picture Okay this picture to if if if you if you transform that into the last meeting and what they said that that Center area would be pushed all the way to web Street okay it it it is where the cars are is web Street yeah the cars are web street but you see these two sides here yeah they they didn't exist they were they were this that that three story area was pushed all the way to web street they're not pushed all the way to web Street here so I think maybe having our civil engineer our civil engineer can testify as to the location of the fronts of the buildings relative to the sidewalk yeah you'll you'll have additional testimony from from the civil engineer about the layout of the entire block okay and what buildings are where y but just for clarity of the record we have not made revisions to the plans they are exactly what was testified to this was just a an an additional illustrative exhibit right last time you showed the elevation I think drawing for the three-story building where there's a a a different perspective of the three-story building in the architectural set that you had had displayed that the last meeting so you couldn't see the four story buildings on the sides no and that's why you you created the rendering have tonight exactly we we had no view from web right okay sorry any other questions from the public with this witness okay I borrow your power we're going to lose our exhibits in a moment we're just have to plug in but while we're doing that if I could call Brian left we'll work to get him sworn in and qualified while we plug in Brian do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will leave the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and if you can state your name and spell your last for the record pleas sure my name is Brian La last name is spelled lff I am the President of BML Studio licensed landscape architect and professional planner in in the state of New Jersey I've been qualified by this board the zoning board and several other boards in the area as a professional and I am responsible for repairing the landscape plan associated with this application so you're providing only testimony related to Landscaping only Landscaping there will be a planner later uh my testimony tonight is solely for landscaping we are offering Mr left as an expert in the field of landscape architecture thank you wonderful all right Mr Le is just going to pull up we're going to pull up an exhibit here for the colorized Landscaping while we're doing that the colorized landscape exhibit was previously submitted but we're going to go ahead and Mark that as A5 for the record okay there we go right Mr left there's been a number of questions about how the buildings will be landscaped so if you could please walk the board through this through the proposed landscape plan sure the primary primary Corridor uh that was of concern during the TRC and the council was really Kingsley Street uh however all frontages were equally important during the design all frontages or I should say 8th Avenue 7th Avenue and Kingsley all have ample plantings in front of the units in most cases the units are elevated above the street level so the planting area would be on a sloped surface in front of the recess units on 7th and 8th there are rooms for smaller ornamental trees in front of a few of the units and since Kings the units on Kingsley are set back to slightly further there was room for a small tree in front of each of the units there you'll notice on the exhibit there are some trees along the streets that are kind of shaded out they're just in the background those are the street trees that would be installed with the street Improvement plan they're not part of this application but in the context of what we're proposing we thought it would be helpful to show what will be coming as part of the streetcape improvements although I those are not part of this application what does that mean EXC there is a an agreement a developers agreement that as each block gets developed the primary developer is responsible for installing the streetcape the developer of this application is not responsible for the installation of the streetcape beyond that I'd have to refer to refer to our attorney for the specific explanation that is correct so pursuant to the Redevelopment agreement and pursu went to the um Waterfront Redevelopment plan and the infrastructure component report the master developer is responsible for everything from the Cur curb line out into the streets so it includes the street trees the curbing the um the reconfiguration of the roads and that infrastructure is done separate and apart from anything that's approved inside the property lines um in this case I will say that the infrastructure around this block is likely to start well before the actual construction here and improv in this case likely that is going to happen but the timing of the infrastructure improvements is governed by the documents of the city council here most likely these improvements will start um perhaps by the end of this year into next year separately from what the planning board is reviewing this evening which is the improvements that would be from the property lines in not the street street likely would not go in until much later but the the streets improvements themselves so when you talk about how the parking spaces on the street would look when you talk about how the roadway widths would be that's all governed by the infrastructure component report uh and that's done by the master developer independent of what occurs inside the property lines yeah I know we we tread on what's part of this application and what's not but because we are looking at this site plan um so the if we approve this application it would necessitate the infrastructure improvements right we would be this BL the master developer would be required to build all of the improvements before this block is finished and does that include kind of the improvements all the way across to the other curbs of sth and eth Avenue yeah sth and eighth Avenues it technically only includes the one side of the Block in this case I think the the master developer has already put in plans to do more than that thank so you won't be talking about the Shaded out streets no I will not I will not you design I did not decide how many would I did not okay okay so one unique part about this project uh that has come up and has influenced both the layout and the landscape design uh is the fact that the roadways 7th and 8th both slope down as you move in an easterly direction towards Kingsley which necessitates uh the need for a couple small retaining walls there if you look at the site plan uh I call it the the T at the end uh each side of there would be slightly above the sidewalk level and there are retaining walls that are shown to make up that grade with plantings on top of it that would Shield the headlights from shining out into the road while people are driving down those internal driveways the intent of those walls is to have a height against the sidewalk of anywhere between 18 and 30 in that makes them seable walls and doesn't require a railing on the top of it uh so as people are walking down the sidewalk they're free to sit on the top of the wall the Finish would be uh the same to match the building so it would look architecturally compatible uh all the plantings that are selected I did provide some pictures they're all obviously plants that are known to survive in the salty conditions more specifically in Asberry Park uh they include service Ferry uh the princ and Century gko which is more of an upright narrow tree rather than a full-size shade tree to fit in some of the more narrow areas uh we do have a variety of grasses and some plants that are just traditional to the shore like knockout roses and hydranges that I can't say are native but they're certainly traditional plants at the Jersey Shore I'm sorry the retain was the dark block or yes if you look at the the back driveway that runs top to bottom yeah uh specifically at the top one there's a dark line right against the sidewalk that would be the retaining wall can you zoom in were the planting or is it the the sort of the grade out uh I think I can it's not the one the bottom the top they're they're on each side yes well the one on Eighth is longer one on Seventh is short where's your zoom on this okay so so here you can see the you can see the retaining wall right along the edge of the sidewalk and wraps into the back corner of the building behind the retaining wall is a series of evergreen shrubs and then behind that some lower ground cover and perennials uh but from the roadway what you would see is the retaining wall with the evergreen shrubs on top and that would serve to block the headlights What what is the like hatched areas above that that's the sidewalk this area here right above that that right up in here that's part that's part of the streetcape improvements and then there's another and that retaining wall is a seat height retaining wall correct yes that would be between 18 in and 30 in uh in design so that you could sit on it as you're walking down the sidewalk and there's another retaining wall that is a seat height cor the other retaining wall is at the other end of that same driveway and it's not quite as large it just comes off of the building uh and wraps pretty much towards the end of where that driveway would be who retains those retain that's all part of that's all part of the developers that's his property that's they're responsible to maintain that the HOA ho yes now I'll have Mr Curley talk about the two other retaining walls which are more structural correct I think one of them right there at the corner uh yes there are there is one that's shown immediately next to this one unit uh was more of a cheek wall against the walkway that goes up to that one unit just to get the grades to work and while I don't think it is shown on this plan uh the intention would be that the other side would also match and have a small retaining wall very similar right along the along this interior walkway Brian actually scroll down I think there's one at the south end of that building the the other one is at the South End of the south building no no no it's it's uh on the other plan okay if there are other retaining walls in this plan would be updated to show those and would be included I know there were some coordination issues with Stoops and steps and porches uh that are not reflected on this particular plan but we would revise the landscape plan to accommodate those features I expect it to be very minor modifications and I don't expect those modifications to change anything I'm testifying to tonight but there would be those two other small most likely uh smaller cheap walls from call them and the retaining walls on the on the sides they're all within the property yes yes they're all within the property there's no construction within the RightWay so let's sort of walk ourselves while we on the retaining walls so the retaining wall ends up being kind of of the same level as that driveway top of the retaining wall is level the driveway so it's not providing any screening to the driveway the wall itself is not the wall is intended that you could sit on it at one point we had a fence on top of it to provide extra screening I believe we've taken that out since and we're just leaving the evergreen shrubs at at the top of the screen the headlights so if you could sort of just walk around the block as far as showing at the corners where there's going to be Landscaping proposed yeah there is Landscaping proposed at each of the corners uh because of the angles in the RightWay some of the planting areas do get narrow as you get to certain area certain points but everywhere between the RightWay and the buildings would be landscaped uh starting at the corner of sth in Kingsley uh these are the fronts of the units you can see they all have plantings and a small tree in front of them as we come down Kingsley a little further there is a walkway that goes between the two buildings and gives a nice view of the central four-story building originally that building was twisted 180 degrees and the view you saw was the back of the building one of the key changes we made was to rotate that building around add a new walkway in front of it and enhance the view so it looks a lot better as you're looking through that corridor from Kingsley Street Brian I don't mean to interrupt us since we're on it can you zoom into the walkway so you have the plantings that are directly in front of the utility these another one of my issues is can you tell us the blue to the left you have them labeled as CB those right there what's the height of those those are going to be about 3 ft right so my issue with that is that you have a mid block Crossing so if you're walking across you're going to be you know if you're 5T you have 2 fet of elevation so you have cars parked there too this might be more civil well you also right up right up against the walkway we also have a lower ground cover probably 4 feet so no ground cover the ground cover which is which is only like 6 to 8 in high I'm sorry 4T width saying so my my concern I again might be more civil is if you're walking across that walk and you're going across that you know you have a car potentially parked down in the four foot questions well well the they're 2 and a half to three foot they're not 4 foot they're low small flowering shrubs uh they're nothing that's going to block a view they're about knee high okay yeah that's okay I think it be more the other the cars park yeah I I don't especially with a even a child that's only 4 feet tall I don't see any visibility issues with the selection of plants that's there okay in front of the utilities those front of the utilities are evergreen shrubs those May grow to 3 or 4 feet uh intended to grow below the utilities one of the challenges we have is how do you hide the utilities but make it visible to the utility company it's a catch22 also have to like access them right how would they access them we the only ones that would actually need the access are shown there was no plants in front of them uh I believe these are the more of the electric remote read meters that you can see them from the walkway these are the only ones that needed actual access to them that was the water I believe a met just Devil's Advocate a meter needs to be replaced how does utility company access to there small shrubs there so they do it all the time uh I don't see them one I don't see meter replacement being in everyday maintenance function if they had to remove a plant or two for Access they would do it and then it would be replaced so if you're walking down that walkway there's low shrubs and then there's meters on both sides at eye level yes so if you can kind of but that is an internal walkway and the only place you would see those meters clearly is from that walkway and the only place that walkway leads is to the interior of the site so unless you're a resident or guest of the resident uh that's really not going to be visible and then I would have the same question about buildings one and four where the meters are I mean are those going to be visible from Kingsley in 7th and eth Avenue I think the the engineer would be better to talk about the location of the meters and what each meter is but the only place I see visibility is of the trans one Transformer that's along eth is this seventh or eightth seventh uh and I believe there was some discussion that there may be alternative locations for that but as it's shown now this Transformer would be the only utility structure that's clearly visible from the right of away and we'll I'll ask Mr Curley to go through each of the utilities when he testifies you said you had a fence at one time of all the which you took them out at the just at the this one location at the end of the driveway where we have the shrubs the ground cover and the retaining wall we had a fence there uh and there was some concern that the fence on top of the retaining wall would be over bearing for people walking down the street that it would be too tall of a barrier but I you want people to sit on the wall that's that's the intent is the int the intent is to allow people to sit on the wall yes that was a are there requ that was made that was request from the TRC committee correct rules are there any retaining rules on web that I don't know if this there are no retaining walls on web no web is actually the high point of this site when you look at the grading so there's no re reason to raise those units up any higher so if you kind of continue down and around just to establish that the Landscaping does go right the Landscaping continues all down Kingsley uh does wrap the corner around 8th Avenue when we get to web Street the buildings are immediately against the RightWay or within a foot I should say uh and practically speaking there's just no way to put landscape on the North against the northern building between the building and the sidewalk uh that building is tight against there and there's nothing that we can really plant along that one facad you made it small you made the building small as it's shown now there's no re there's no planting strip along there but then in front of the three buildings in front of the three the three buildings that are facing right the three story building that is facing web Street uh we there's an ample amount of landscaping in front of those including small ornamental trees flowering and evergreen shrubs perennials Ground Covers grasses uh very similar to what was shown in the previous exhibit the southern building is pulled away from the RightWay a little bit and we did have some opportunity to add some evergreen shrubs along that building to soften the feel as you're walking down web street so the only place that does not have plantings between the building and the RightWay is the northern four-story building as it's on web Street and then in the renderings I don't think it was shown but are there little planting spaces or between each of the driveway yes uh but you have you have plan things on the easterly end yes so I you know would it be better to give plan things to people instead of looking at L W shifting that down that I'd have to defer to the the engineer who laid the site out as to the location of the building we'll have Mr Curley testify next but as for the planting strips between the driveways yeah there was uh some comments and some concern that the buildings when you looked at them from the back uh from web Street as you're looking down the driveways that everything looked plain uh again those renderings did not show any of the landscaping that's in the areas between the driveways for each of the units uh the original plan just called for almost a monoculture planting everything did look the same uh and one revision that we did make when we came to the planning board is varied the plantings in each of those islands uh to give a more attractive and a look uh and to soften so it doesn't look like a hotel what's the width of those anywhere between 3T and 5 ft on it's just low low shrubs ornamental grasses perennials uh nothing tall no trees uh there's not enough room for a tree uh The Roots would rip things up and a lot of sometimes if the branches are lower they interfere with the the vehicles moving in and out and quite frankly not everyone negotiates around a tree into their driveway with success so trees that are planted too close to driveways uh usually are shortlived uh so that's the reason for people will be those same people will be driving over it does a lot less damage to your vehicle when you hit a shrub than a tree uh but that being said there is ample room for people to pull in and out of the driveways they all can form and the engineer can speak a little more to that the idea is that the planting step down lower and lower so that as you get towards the actual drive like the internal drive aisles that you're almost down to a ground cover level at that point so as you're pulling out of your driveway you have clear visibility in all directions the dimension from the uh East edge of the sidewalk on web to the property line that I don't know I can have Mr Curley testify say again I can have Mr Curley testifies the dimensions I would like to just hit a few comments that were in some of the professional reports I was going to ask you a question about the streetscaping that was in the CCH report but you've already addressed that so I will go straight to the engineering report that was dated September 5th and item number 17 uh which asks about the caliber of the service berry tree yes we could normally the service Berry is a an ornamental tree and it's often sold by height so it's specified on the plant I believe is an 8 to 10 foot height plant uh but does not give the caliper of the tree because it's a multi stem tree uh I can add a caliper but in all fairness when they buy it it's going to be ordered by height and the caliper is going to be a secondary measurement for number of stems right that's that's just yeah it's a specification uh he is correct the internal trees the the Princeton Sentry ginkos are specified caliber and then comment number 18 was just asking us to add a note to the plans indicating that plants will be watered and replaced if dead or dying that's acceptable correct yes and I believe the intention is to have irrigated planting beds uh but yes any plants that die would have to be replaced okay so it's going to be spr I believe except for probably the areas between the driveways but the front yards I believe would be irrigated okay those are all the questions that I had from left as a landscaping can he address how we're going to plant Slopes my comment 4.5 sure yes the slope slopes on the as I mentioned most of the areas between the units and the sidewalks are sloped I believe they're graded at a 3:1 or a 5:1 slope uh the idea we have larger evergreen shrubs against the units and then smaller uh shrubs in Evergreen or uh perennials and ground covers grasses uh planted on the on the slope itself when meets the sidew there is the planting bed would just ma match up to the edge of the sidewalk it's common no no you we could you could put a small curve there uh metal Ed metal edging wouldn't do it that you would want the metal edging to be flush with the ground that you would want something elevated if you're looking to stop the The Mulch if you put an elevated metal metal Edge it becomes a tripping Hazard and the metal just never stays where it's supposed to be it's a constant maintenance if you're going to do an edge I'd recommend a concrete curb uh to raise it up 6 in uh and have everything come to the back of the curb but if you have something that's just freestanding and higher than the plant bed what you do is block all the storm water and you just encourage ponding on the properties you know part way um part of it is the erosion you know just the maintenance problem with the stuff washing off to the sidewalk um again you know little bit of curb is sort of okay but I I think you know as we move into the engineering testimony maybe there's you know more of a grading solution I we I did look at an option at one point of running continuing the retaining wall along the street Frontage to try and raise that up what that ends up doing though is these buildings are fairly close to the RightWay and you're going to be encouraging people to sit right out someone's right outside of someone's living room window uh so that in a city yeah um it would be kind of like Brownstones in man or you know I said my my opinion was that the the retaining walls just weren't appropriate in front of the units uh but I'll leave that discussion to the board stalk how wide is the planting area at the East end of the building on 8th Avenue I don't have that Dimension but it you're talking about this area in here yes I the engineer can probably give a better answer but I believe that's about 6 ft it does say 10t 10 ft okay 10t that's what it says on site the width of the curve to the again engineer the of the curve to this building says 10t Donna is the Ginko tree something accept to you I'm sorry is the Ginko tree something acceptable yeah we really didn't have a problem with the plant list I mean we don't prefer knockout roses but you know I I know they're commercially acceptable they're all over the place they're I'm particularly concerned about the K trees yeah kles will be okay can M male trees yes well it's Century so right yeah it's a Princeton Century it's a grafted tree to begin with so they're not going to smelly yeah no seeds No Seeds no smell okay so what are people's thoughts on this the grading issue uh maybe we get more engineering grading testimony fair I'm not I don't think anybody's going to sit on these retaining walls period I just it's just not part of the culture of our place I I think they're there but I doubt this is going to be someplace that people really stop and sit they do serve another function though they do kind of block off the view at the uh garages yeah so not tall enough for that no not really no but you got Point behind any other questions for this witness from the board for our professionals trying to think was there anything else in your report we had to go over no you know we we uh we know Brian's work he's uh there's usually nothing too much to complain about with his plans so thank you I I have one that's again this gray area of this application versus Master developer I do see there's like uh curb bulbs uh curb extension and the renderings there's Landscaping in those again that's all part of the streetcape that's not part of this application I I will say so you're talking about the the bump outs yeah yes so here's what I will say about those there's currently a request into Council that's being reviewed by the city again independent of this application but just to give context to uh change the infrastructure component report to create those bump out areas that would then have a certain amount of landscape in them okay so although it's not part of this application we have shown what it could look like if the council decides to approve that change um if the council decides not to approve that change then you would not have those curb bump outs it would just be the regular curb returns okay I'm glad you put that request in because the treat minute like first in Kingsley is so so nicely done and this kind of reminded me of that so um thank you I just have one question follow up so so based on this plan what is in the RightWay area that is proposed in the current Master developer plan if you know I what I'm showing is based on the master plan component report that's in the Redevelopment plan okay uh so this is the guideline when it when they do their final planting things may shift a couple feet in either direction but it would still follow the idea that you're going to have a concrete sidewalk a PA border Street trees lights benches where those all fall into place May shift from this plan what I'm showing but they would all be there okay and for example the infrastructure component report doesn't say anything about the bus shelter that's at the corner so that's something we have to manage you know just between everybody who's involved the Shel I'm sorry shelter's already there right yeah but it's actually on the property so it has to move off the property into the right of way of which you know and I'll have Mr curly discuss that it's it's mostly in the right of way today so um but you know the infrastructure component report again is kind of high level it doesn't anticipate that there would be this many driveways for this block for example so the layout of the parking spaces doesn't anticipate this layout and we'll have more testimony from Mr Curley I'm sure okay okay um any other questions from the board of Professionals for this witness all right any questions from the public for this witness so about Landscaping um and what we just heard testimony about uh yes hi Karen May 3018 Avenue um those of us in that house will have the joy of looking at the west side of the 8th Street building where it's right up against the edge of the property line there's apparently not enough setback for you to put anything there um so that said um if you can zoom in on that a little bit I would greatly appreciate so that so my question so that building is going to go right up to the sidewalk yes there's no room for anything there fantastic the engineer can verify but I believe the setback to that building is less than 1ot so there's no reasonable area that you can plant any anything that's fabulous um okay now my next question is if I look at the overall picture um I'm not seeing any grass anywhere any space that is left CU right now it's all grass or 95% grass that lot so everything is being either built or paved on and you're putting or the spaces that you've put shrubs on there's no actual grass remaining anywhere on this entire city block no fabulous last question I don't know actually who this goes to but you talked a lot about the master developer over the street Redevelopment who approves that and how do we get any say in that because that's a significant impact to those of us who live there and I'm not aware of where that's happening because it seems to be outside of this she's asking about I think the infrastructure component plan the eth street 8th Avenue um changes yeah Miss Smith can probably answer this better than anyone else sure so and again apologies for having my back to you but the infrastructure component report is something that's already been approved by the council um the council has been asked to consider revising it to allow for those bump outs uh but the com infrastructure component report that sets forth the width of the streets the how the parking spaces go as far as angled versus parallel that's all something that's all already been adopted by the council and is part of the Redevelopment agreement um that was signed between ASB Partners the master developer uh and the city and the master developer has been implementing the street improvements in different parts of the Waterfront so you can see parts of the Waterfront have been completed infrastructure wise some have not this area has not yet been completed but is scheduled um to be the next area to be improved from a streetscape perspective okay thank you um yeah cuz then I get CU so any comments that I would normally send you're Marie you're Marie um so letters that we're sending to Marie from our house or the neighborhood would be separate would they still go to you if we were addressing questions around the parking and this infrastructure who would that letter go to cuz I have a number of questions around that city council that goes to city council are you asking letters regarding the uh RightWay infrastructure questions concerns about how they're pushing stuff out and what it's going to look like when we're all said and done yeah th those those have nothing to do with the application the application is within the property lines this one I understand but if I have a a qu because in these pictures are things that are changing significantly for those of us who live here right and have no off street parking and so we do have some questions here and so or comments and concerns so before it happens especially if it's happening by the end of the year who do we voice our questions or concerns to is my question you can send those questions and concerns to me I'm drug transportation for the city okay I'm working also with City Council on those changes so I will bring those city council for the interiew and Mr curly will talk about parking said that okay thank you so much Mr curly will talk about parking parking off street parking yes okay okay um than um I think the rest is going to fall to civil engineer CU you don't do lighting you're only Landscaping corre okay Mike czor 305 AEV um do are there any we've been talking about the retaining walls a lot are there any actual renderings of of what they were all shown in the architect's presentation they're low like I said 18in to 30 in high retain walls uh but they did show up in the architectural rendering got it and what color are they the same color as the building they're designed to match the foundation got it um and then what's what's the height of you know the tallest kind of internal planting that you guys have on the inside when you say the height there are some Princeton Sentry gko trees that will reach about 20 to 30 ft High that's on the on the outside uh that's on the interior uh there most most of what's on the interior is lower shrubs that are going to be 4T and lower um there are a couple other Evergreen accent plants that would reach a height of seven eight maybe 10 feet uh but for the most part the internal Landscaping mostly shrubs and BRS so like the the walkway that kind of splits in Middle there so to Kingsley you walk through MH you see you said you guys added plantings there what what's the height of those kind oft yeah and anything did you guys think about putting anything larger there the problem we have there is you have the utility meter so if we put anything larger you block the view of the utility meters and the utility companies can't read them or access them where's where's the utility meter on the sides of the building walls uh these larger these larger Black Box got it what what about in front of the units right there so there's plantings in there are plantings in front of every unit yeah in front of the Interior units did you guys think of putting anything larger there did not for spatial reasons got it and is there anywhere on the interior where you guys considered putting you know a larger tree or anything we absolutely considered it at a lot of places but due to the spatial constraints and the nature of the development uh simply no room for larger trees on the got it um yeah like a a previous comment are said so there's no grass anywhere no the grass was out uh grass takes up a lot more resources there's a lot more chemicals that go into the fertilization The Pest Control uh shrub plantings and ground covers and perennials that are native are much more ecologically friendly and would look a lot nicer you don't get the lawn mower and weed whacker out there at 7:00 every Wednesday morning sure so the on the exterior you know on the street side side do any of those plants kind of encroach into the sidewalk or large enough to you know bushes that are going to grow into the sidewalk area no the only thing down the line some of the ornamental trees that are in the front may have a couple branches that start to reach the the sidewalk at a higher level if that happens they would just be turned back but the intention is not to have any plantings within the right way got it and the elevation so on the street uh you know the planting is directly against the the buildings here how what's the height of those going to be I know there's some retaining walls there's again the around the buildings is mostly lower shrubs 3 to 4 feet high uh Evergreen and smaller deciduous shrubs on top of that uh there is a you can see the ornamental trees that are shown particularly along Kingsley in front of every unit long web in front of the units that are fronting web uh and at the recess unit it's along 7th and 8th there are those ornamental trees that would be installed at 8 to 10 ft could grow you know 12 15 got it so so if there were you know a number of people walking to the beach there and they wanted to stop and you know kind of move over you would be stepping into mulch or plants or something else well you would be stepping out of the RightWay on on private property but yes you'd be stepping on someone's Point yeah got it so it's going to be plants are going to be right up to the yes right up to the edge there got it okay yeah uh hold on let's let's see here um did you guys consider anywhere to put you know some sort of public area here anywhere you know that somebody could stand either on the interior on the exterior um you know like a pocket park or anything like that was that ever part of the development plan I was not involved in the original La that would be a question for the engineer uh I'm not aware of whether that was or was not considered a part is there anywhere you could put it how it's currently designed not that I can see no again I would defer of the engineer though who was responsible for the side lout got it and on the the interior kind of the separation between the parking I guess those the garages right so there's a how wide are those 3 ft or 5T they're anywhere between 3 and 5T I believe yeah you can't put anything larger in between any any plantings larger than not without interfering the it's a small planting area to try and put larger trees The Roots would inevitably tear up the driveways and in ter roadways uh and I in my opinion it it does pose a circulation issue with some drivers let's see sorry I'm just checking my notes here so the the trees on the the street side you said are going to be 20 to 30 ft t they're planted I believe they're specified at 8 to 10 ft they get inst Sal they can grow to probably 15 20 ft if they're perfectly taken care of but they're meant to be smaller ornamental trees got it not larger shade trees the larger shade trees would be part of the infrastructure that would be on the other side of the sidewalk yes got it so on on the let's see Northeast corner there is there a tree when you right at the corner of a in Kingsley on the in you know on the interior there is a small evergreen tree that's shown at the corner of that unit for an accent planting to accentuate the architect but it's not a large shade tree again the shade trees along the streetscape are going to be provided with this the streetcape uh component that is not part of this application got it I'm just trying to figure out if there's you know anywhere that you know you could get some extra sidewalk uh area kind of in there it's just just so so tight for you know Surfers people walk in their dogs there's a lot of people that go to the beach right there so um okay we're not approaching into the RightWay or the sidewalk area at all got it so you know this is why I was asking about curb extensions because if you look at other other avenues where they cross Kingsley where we do have Curb extensions you do get extra wide green space at the corners um which to your point is nice to have um it's not currently allowed which is why Miss Smith mentioned they uh asked I guess ask the city if itow in the infrastructure component report it's just not specified at every corner okay so that's why they're asking for this corner thanks Don and this side Walk So at the property line there's the 4ft sidewalk and then there's like a 3ft brick paper apron that runs to the curve so between every tree there is a kind of pave it's not a consistent material but this material represents I don't know if you can see what I'm pointing out on your side there's don't just here yeah so there is so the effective width of the sidewalk between every tree is wider than the paved area sort of like the downtown condition where we have that P or strip between the curve and the sidewalk So in theory the sidewalk is about 8 wi so the speckly is a cement we're getting rid of and that would be sadly um that would be the cement then the grid lines to the right of that is a is a paver so there's still so we've lost grass there correct well no that's there on Kingsley no the papers are not there yet elsewhere elsewhere further south south of Bradley Park Atlantic Park this is the treatment it's 4T of sidewalk and then so this will match the parts of the Waterfront that have already been redone yes I'm correct the as yeah yeah I think I just have one more question so the the so on that that uh the northeast corner there where that there's like a pink it looks pink right there so that's going to be an evergreen tree is that the the one large the one green one is an evergreen tree the other ones are fairy shrubs and perennials got it so and maybe this is a question for the the civil engineer currently at the end of the street right there the side you know the the whole street widens about I don't know it's probably 20 ft on each side um so is that planting Where the Sidewalk sits right now that I don't that I don't know where the existing sidewalk sits in relation to what's being proposed but again we are not putting anything in the public right away all of the plantings are on private property got it okay thanks any other questions from the public to the landscape architect um going back to the building on the uh uh the northwest corner corner of eigh and web mhm uh your Westerly building D unit is right up against the property line correct a foot what would you consider the minimum width of a planting bed in that area it depends on what you're looking to plant if you're looking to plant anything that would add a reasonable buffer you probably need about at a minimum 3 to four feet and that would be tight okay and that would kind of match the uh the uh planting on the uh South that would more closely resemble that yes okay all right right Next Fitness I know we've deferred several questions for our civil engineer so I'd like to bring up Mr Curley now to give his presentation and testimony and to answer some of those questions so as Mr Curley sits down and gets sworn in Mr curly you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do you state your name for the record spell your last pleas Robert curlyy C r l y we are going to be offering Mr Curley as an expert in the field of civil engineering So to that end if you could just briefly explain your education background and lure um I appeared before the sport um 10,000 for a long time probably um close to 18 years so um I was also working with the master developer preparing the infrastructure um ultimate plans that get built throughout the Waterfront um I've been the design engineer on numerous projects and presented before this board uh for quite some time as a licensed professional engineer and a professional planner but I'm here just to get engineering testimony excellent so we do present Mr Curley as an expert in the field of uh civil engineering yeah Barbara always asks your license is up to date in New yes it is okay then yes thank you wonderful so Mr curle there's been a number of questions that have been asked so far I was going to ask you to start with the subdivision but if you'd prefer to start somewhere else please feel free So based upon some I was going to do a little bit different presentation but based upon the quantity of questions that arose on the infrastructure and what is ultimately going to look like surrounding the property I just would like everyone to understand that right now um the the roadway widths in particular on the Avenues are going to be substantially increased the cartway width so the pavement is going to get closer to the property lines and what that's going to do is going to provide an opportunity on eth Avenue to put in an island and have angled parking for the entire length and likewise on 7th Avenue it'll be the same there will be on 7th Avenue Kingsley Street and um 8th Avenue there will be a 12T wide between the curb and the edge of the back of the sidewalk So currently right now there's arbitrary sidewalk widths of in the range of four to 5T so that's what will exist with the infrastructure improvements that are that are currently being proposed she saying the street with of 78 actually know increase that's correct what is the current are they 200 ft there is that that's not the flare up on no Street what is the street with now um they range some somewhere in well the cartway where you know I I don't want to I don't want to say wrong Dimension I I I I I don't know that answer what I can tell you is that the the improvements that we're that we're proposing um will provide for equal amount of parking that exists today as when it will be completed after the finished product is done so there currently is 45 parking stalls surrounding this block when we are done there will be 45 parking stalls when we're finished no I know but I thought you said you inreasing that's correct the street that's correct it's going to be increas so we're we're providing a and I don't have the I I don't want to I don't want to indicate an incorrect Dimension and in particular because of the bump outs on the corners um there's some narrowing there um and and we're providing for 24 foot wide aisles so again I I don't want to I don't want to give you a wrong Dimension um I I absolutely can get those dimensions for the board I don't think we w this up tonight so that's fine but all all of that though is just to your point that that's not part of this application but but there are but the well I brought it up because of the quantity of questions that have been asked and the concerns of the residents I understand so one of the things residency the street will be wi and there will be a new media there's no media in there now not on that the that's corrected that's correct Dan we have a we have an exhibit that was sent to us it's called um block 4306 aiel and it shows I'm sorry it's it's the one that's called CO2 layout and it shows the existing kind of satellite view and then the plan laid over it so you can see exactly what the new plan looks like over the old street so you can see how where the widening occurs what is this next one yeah this one an eighth Avenue is not like the other avenues it's not angled and that that was that was another opportunity that I wanted to express because of the um some of the concerns over the layout of the overall block this block has a flare out on the south end which is sth and then it's a 90° intersection on 8th so that does present some um layout concerns as far as wanting to try to make sure that you keep Frontage of the dwellings parallel to the street and that that that that was the mission okay in fact with Michael I think referen why don't we go ahead and label that it actually shows you know there's 100 foot width on eth Avenue currently and it does actually depict well that's the right of way with not the right but what you're looking at is yeah and just it looks like I understand with the angle parking are you actually going to be getting more space that's correct show and I'd like to just make sure we mark this for the record is A6 and can you just describe what this exhibit is so what I did was I I wanted um to have an exhibit to to depict the and this is a um and this is a Google Earth aerial so um this is this is probably a little aged but it's pretty close um so it's it's got a Google Earth aerial underneath of the dimensioning plan that that is part of the set which is page two of of the overall engineering plans so the point I was trying to get to is to understand that if this is a 90° corner and we're trying to maintain the building frontages to provide access from the front of the dwelling onto a sidewalk area we wanted to didn't want to have a variable width we kept a consistent width across the front edge of all of the fronts of the buildings to the sidewalk to the edge of the edge of the sidewalk that's going to be constructed and what that ends up doing is because we have a square um layout on on the North End and an angled layout on the south end yes there's going to be there's going to be a a variable Corner that that occurs and it it ends up occurring at the um West End of the most southernly building what do you mean that they have equal space some of them is set back right well there's there's a jog the jog the jogs in the building that's correct but they're all parallel to the sidewalk so the closest in in particular for building number one the closest building Frontage to the to the edge of the edge of the building to the back of the sidewalk is 8 ft now when you're looking when you're looking at that the ones that front on 8 is it it appears that the end the two ends are they wider buildings than the ones in between that's correct the the end units are a wider a wider unit that's correct so you know that'll go to know the question about the planting that the the one at the Westerly End Is Right abing web Street and there's not sufficient room for planting so if it were actually a smaller a lesser width there would be more room for planting or if it was shifted down where you have the planting at the easterly end of that low if that was either split or move to the Westerly then we could have some plings on the web Street that's a correct statement yes would that be difficult to do would that be difficult so those would be onecar garage units which are the interior units that's not the intent the intent would be to shift the building to the east to provide an equal separation distance from the curve line line to the building line and as as Mr Le indicated to provide a 4ot area for plantings adjacent to the Jason to the sidewalk that that that could be accommodated yes and that's but that's something that we probably should discuss with the applicant that's that's something we should discuss with the applicant as far as the ability to move that down yeah and Dan you probably wouldn't want the narrower units on the end anyway because they have end units have Windows and stuff on the side that give them visual interest so well I that don't want n i don't nrow units but I think the issue is to have some planting yeah oh agree age agree agree agree agree yeah hold down or what oh agree 100% okay so if you can continue talking there's been a number of questions about setback so perhaps you can walk around the building identifying the relevant setbacks so again the minimum distance between the edge of the pavement and the back of the sidewalk on 8th Avenue on Kingsley Street and on 7th Avenue will be 12 12 feet and what that does is provides for a much wider walking walking experience as you're going down the road and it also provides for providing Street trees and street lights and the street lights are going to be in in um in accordance with the infrastructure component report and the street trees are going to be in con performance with the Waterfront Redevelopment and then what is the setback from the property line to each of the buildings so for for building building number four from the back of or excuse me from the property line to the building is 8 ft so that would for example in that location it would be between the building and the curb would be approximately 20 ft correct the building to the back of the sidewalk is 8 ft and then from the the sidewalk the back of the sidewalk to the curb line minimum distance oops excuse me tough fingers here um the minimum distance from the building to the edge of the pavement would be 20 ft so that 8 foot is the steps and that's correct okay that's on the North side pardon that's on the north side side correct on 8th Avenue on the North side all right if you could look at the same along Kingsley Street please so the side setback for for building number three is again consistent with um the alignment of building number one make sure said that right four excuse me building number four 8 ft to the to the building to the property line on 8th Avenue and then from the building to the property line on Kingsley street is 11 ft so again the minimum distance that we're going to be talking about between the proposed building and the edge of the pavement would be 23 ft and that's consistent for building number three and build building number two now the side setback for building number two um is 2 feet at this corner that's the closest um 12T to back side that's correct and actually so correct without the bum and that's correct okay and how about building number one building number one again has a consistent um Frontage setback to the property line of 8 ft and um again you would have another 12 ft to the edge of the uh pavement so that would be 20 ft from the building to the edge of the pavment the shortest distance and how about on the side as you wrap around web so the shortest distance we have is 3 ft to the property line and then on web street we have an 8 and 1/2t wide uh total uh from the curbed face to the back of the sidewalk is 8 and 1/2 ft wide so at that the most narrow point in that building am I doing the math where that's still 11 and 1/2 ft that's correct okay from the building to the paved Edge and what is it at the corner at the corner of seventh and web looks like I'm sorry it's it's 6 feet at the at the most southernly Edge but at at the Northerly edge of building number one um it's 3et and then how about the three-story building on web what are the setbacks there 11 ft so 11 plus 82 would be 19 and 1/2 ft to the edge of the pavement okay all right so you've talked about the setbacks before we get too far off the setbacks if you could just discuss the proposed subdivision briefly um so and this has been completed on a number of applications um that have been before the board previously this is a uh temporary and I say that um it's a temporary subdivision in order to affect the um Fanny May financing that's associated with soils that have been um deemed as contaminated so it will help facilitate the remediation is that correct that's correct all right now on the subdivision we're proposing there's currently eight lots that make up the block is that correct that's correct and after the subdivision how many will there be there will be three and will each of those three lots comply as to the total size of each lot and the frontage of each lot yes right and then I think we've indicated that the Lots will be actually Consolidated into one lot prior to the final certificate of occupancy is that correct that's correct all right I just briefly want to touch upon a few items the first is on street parking how many parking space Sorry onsite parking how many total parking spaces are proposed on site within the property lines 114 and how many are actually required 68 so 68 are required but 114 have been provided and will those spaces be located both in garages and then also in external driveways that's correct right like to talk a little bit about The pedest Pedestrian access and walkways internal to the site um I know that there was testimony earlier about how the building in the middle was actually flipped around Mr left testified to that can you talk about how that then facilitates pedestrian movement within the interior of the lot so for all of the buildings when you come out of your front of your dwelling you'll be able to access a sidewalk walk to be able to uh provide pedestrian circulation around the block for the interior building uh with the when the building was flipped we added a sidewalk that would facilitate pedestrian access ultimately to the exterior of the block and that would be across the front of the building with sidewalk access to um a a a common sidewalk and then ultimately we have it connected through the two buildings with another piece a sidewalk that would connect out to Kingsley Street okay could you just go back to this di there so I notice on 8th Avenue um the buildings that front on eth Avenue they sort of respected the sight lines of well if you if you go back to J you can see sort of you respected the sidelines of the houses to the West that you don't really encroach you don't you don't go further to the sidewalk than they are um but on 7eventh Avenue now those houses you know someone sitting on the porch where they could look down the block now they're looking at the side of your building you you didn't respect the setb and and well that that may be true for the corner unit but this this larger unit back here that's absolutely for more forward um the building this still follows the ride of way and follows the flare so it still maintains the visual that would that would ultimately occur as you're walking down the sidewalk this does not at all impede and if anything it's going to increase the uh the the visual effect down 7th Avenue when you when we widen the roadway but not those and and and this application is is for a four-story building whereby an eight-story building could easily be constructed um so we are we're we're absolutely understanding that we're providing a new development on an existing block um that hasn't had any development on it for a substantial amount of time um the waterfront development plan allows building set back all the way to the RightWay line that's not what we're proposing uh we we've kept in character with the with the Town Home Development with the thought process to have a front of the unit that would be accessing onto the sidewalk so we've provided a small front yard area and um I believe it's in the spirit absolutely in the spirit of the Waterfront Redevelopment plan I'm not not suggesting you don't reash history you know the law wasn't developed for a number of reasons right that development rights were held up for over a decade and then 56 Aces were subject to condemnation until there was arbitration between the city and N so let's not get there the simple point of the fact I'm saying is you do not you do now block those sight lines from those homes which were formerly open down the road that's I'm just pointing out that okay one just quick question we had on one of the renderings it showed a mid block crosswalk across I believe it was Kingsley that is not proposed correct that's correct okay um internal circulation in the CCH report I think it was 2.1c there's a question about in vehicle circulation when it comes into those areas along 7 and eth kind of between the buildings it's internal to the site is there a sufficient width there for cars to turn around the cartway width is 24 ft wide plus the driveway um on the end units is actually 20 ft in length um not the required 18 which is uh with the jog on the on the more internal units so if a vehicle we turning in here and again the the end unit which I believe uh would be considered the most difficult um it still is an easily accommodated back out and then K turn and then leave there's I I there's it very similar to any parking lot that you would um be parking in any of the uh uh commercial uses that surround surround the area if anything it's it's it's deeper because of the um driveway being 20 ft in length not not the 18 there was also a question about trash truck circulation can you talk about how a garbage truck could circulate this site so this would be private cting and um in particular for the for the residents that would be at the end they would bring their garbage cans to the end of the driveway the garbage truck would uh come into the development excuse me uh make the turn have the back of the truck and then they'd have to wheel the garbage garbage cans to the truck and have them that way're nobody would there would be no backing down no backing down the that's correct not not the homeowner the company correct right the homeowner private cing correct I'm sorry say that again so the so a garbage truck garbage truck can come in the development pick up the garbage in particular for the three units that would be on the T portion of the of the development the garbage truck would stop and they would have to wheel the garbage cans from the driveway to the garbage truck and bring them back the workers correct we've also had questions about utility meters can you talk about the location of each of the utilities at least as far as they're proposed with the understanding for example that Transformer ultimately have to be approved by the individual utility so our our proposed meters we listened hard to uh comments from the technical Review Committee um and cited the utility meters on the sides of the buildings that would not front out onto any of the streets so in that Vein on uh the internal to shorter buildings we have them on the north side of the building and then on the uh east side of the two longer buildings that are on front on 8th Avenue and 7th Avenue and then in between the two buildings on Kingsley street so again as not to have them fronting out onto any roadway can I ask a question about those so I see particularly for the two buildings on Kingsley Street um there is a sprinkler room that's west of the utility meters I'm wondering if there's any opportunity for the sprinkler room to be closer to the street than the utility meter so the meters might kind of hidden your mind um I that might be an architect's question I would ask I would not want to commit to something like that I I that would be a that would be a mechanical the architect that would need to uh need to answer that one so I think part of the confusion with that question though is you know how how the runs are made from the meters and from the sprinkler of room through the units versus how are they accessed from the outside what drives the grading or the height of them um but you see my point from Kingsley Street sprinkler room was East you wouldn't see the meters but now that's going to be you know that could be the thing you see but you'll be able to see more prominently visible more prominent thank you Donna you're welcome thank ask a question about the sight line on the uh 7th and web so you have three excuse me so three five 7 10 units right if you push those three units at the corner back pulled the two units forward push the two units back pull the two units forward and push that final one to the right back you don't have enough Drive void depth for the end unit on the West End you have less than what they're you know on that closest one right and okay we have a 20 the other reason why I was going to ask that is because you have utilities proposed very close to the right of way and if you push that right one back you're pushing those utilities back and they could be shielded a little bit better are those the utilities along the internal access way between building one and building two so the one between uh I can't see if that's yeah I guess that's number two on the right um yeah yes so you have those utilities those three Banks of utilities fairly close to the right of way it's a sprinkl room and two meter STS yeah and then that the Mr Curley can you just describe the location of I think the black Square we'll call it so this a proposed Transformer okay and the so you have the Transformer and then you have the three two things are met so one thing is sprink room sprink room yeah right there right the gas the it seems like they're very those those uh meters are going to be very close to the RightWay there I think well they'd be set back probably about 10 ft from the right away the other location that those could be is on the on the web Street side of the building correct were they specifically chosen to be in that location yeah I would agree they shouldn't be web Street side this again goes to if you put the sprinkler room closer to the street then you know the meters are not so visible yeah that's kind of my point yeah you're very close to the right of way there on a very prominent road yeah just while we're paused we have about 12 minutes left okay I think we can go through Mr Curly's testimony very quickly I have just a handful more questions I think we'll be able to finish up uh retaining walls Mr Curley can you describe the locations of the two Mr left covered the retaining walls that are kind of in those sections between the buildings can you just describe the retaining walls at the corners and why they need to be there and um just so that the board understands there were some comments um in our initial review that we had um and I I was able to modify the plan slightly to provide it for a constant Wall height of 24 inches for um both this South wall and for the north wall in this area so both of those retaining walls are now a consistent 24 in in height uh the two knee walls that come out at the um end of each unit um makes up the difference in elevation from the stoop we could we we could have an exposed stoop and and soften the grading here and get rid of this wall we felt that providing this retaining wall um provided more of an opportunity to to put plantings in and U provided a just a better design and we we were consistent on both ends um with that and this would range in height U from about 30 in down to 2 feet okay I know you're not on the grading plan uh but on the on the grading sheet in the site PL set on the corner of the southernly corner of building three there's a retaining wall sort of so that was one of the ones I had called out I'm not sure this is supposed to be here or if it needs to be here but there's a you've got one of those knee walls sticking out from that building corner on the grading plan North Side so if we keep on the building up there yeah on the souths side of the building three yep again it's not it doesn't show up on on that set it shows up on the grading plant I'm sorry but that so page three of your set so you know it it kind of matches um what's going on at the other Corner um is it your preference to have a retaining wall there or not to have a retain it's just we need to make sure if he needs it or not I I'm not going to say hearing wise but um it's not hatch I honestly think it might have just been it might have been from a previous version or something so I'm thinking that can be corrected then yeah um all right I do have a few more questions one we talked about the bus shelter can you talk about the relocation of the bus shelter briefly so as part of the infrastructure um I'm I'm sorry no go ahead and finish sorry sorry um So currently the bus shelter is on private property um and that's needs to be relocated uh the coordination of that relocation of the bus shelter is going to be coordinated with the uh New Jersey Transit and it'll be part of the infrastructure component or infrastructure construction plans it's mostly in the right way right now right just encroaches a bit into the into the lot correct it's a few feet onto onto our property let's talk about lighting um if you could briefly describe the proposed light fixtures and also just to address a note is it correct that the plans either have been revised or will be revised to indicate a color temperature of 2700 or below yes yes they have okay they were modified with the resubmission that occurred after our first review okay okay keep going it's it is designated there it's uh smaller text and it's in the box but it's definitely designated there um so the the lighting plan that was in and that is in the um engineering set includ includes all of the street lights that surround all of the proposed Street lighting that surrounds the development and those foot candle values were also included in the engineering set um and one of the comments that was um indicated in I believe it was in the um Architectural Review um indicated that there was light spillage off of our property when I turn off the lights that surround that are proposed for the part of the infrastructure there is absolutely no light shedding from our property at all so the light fixtures that we're proposing are consistent with the um Street fixtures although they are going to be slightly different we're again we're going to make sure that our color temp is uh 2700 and um the light fixture height is uh 16 ft right in the engineering report date of September 5th there were three comments about exterior lighting commas 14 through 16 it's asking the first two ask for notes to be added to the plan about cabling Supply electricity being installed underground and one was about light fixtures shall be non-glare fully C off and fully shielded that's correct and and they'll be uh their night sky compliant fixtures so the applicant can comply with 14 and 15 correct and 16 and 16 excellent all [Applause] right briefly if you could discuss compliance with storm water regulations for this site so part of um part of the challenge that we had with with our site um was to ensure that for future development that we would be compliant with the flood Hazard regulations and that's kind of what set up the grading um for the overall property um how we're handling the the drainage on the site is there's a blue grade Detention Facility that'll handle quantity and we're providing uh for water quality for the newly paved area for the driveways and for the for the driveway throughout the site we're using a filtera um uh green infrastructure sedimentation uh structure that ultimately discharges into the to the storm water management system so it cleans the water before it gets into the below grade Detention Facility and although the water that goes into the below grade Detention Facility is strictly from the buildings itself and uh they're all connected via roof roof runoff connection pipes and although the storm water systems are going to be reviewed by the D in connection with compliance with the cafer permit is it your opinion that what you've designed complies with current storm water regulations yes and that's also based upon an initial review that was completed by the D just do want to go back for one moment there was a question about this layout concerning the driveway locations and how cars are going to access the site and where their headlights will be if you could briefly describe kind of how these driveways relate to the houses that are across the street and for this we'll mark another exhibit A7 should I just what should we call this one um headlight exhibit okay that's what it's entitled so if I if I can I'm going to come right back to this um this exhibit but I do want to look at the overall areial so our driveway that is on the south end that would enter on to web and again web street is a oneway oneway street and that would be a rightand turn leaving our driveway um what's Direct opposite our driveway for a vehicle exiting is a is an existing garage that's a two-car garage that's a freestanding garage correct that's correct so what what we wanted to focus on was the northern driveway and understanding um any any potential impacts that we may have um on the adjacent residence so in doing so we looked at a couple of things we looked at the location and then we also looked at the elevation of the proposed or the existing roadway that we're tying into and the existing finished floor of the of the adjacent um dwelling that's across the street so in looking at the the roadway elevation that exists today in comparison to the finished floor of the adjacent um of the dwelling that's across the street is approxim 5 1/2 ft above the existing roadway um when a vehicle comes I'm sorry if I just when a vehicle is going to be exiting our site and turning onto web Street making a right-hand turn his his lights that would potentially be shining out is going to be well below any any existing windows that exist on the east side of the structure and again we are 5 and 1/2 ft the roadway is 5 and a2t below the finished floor so it if you say that the lights are up 2 and 1/2 ft so we're still 3 ft below um the finished floor for any lights that would be shining straight out of the out of the vehicle and then turning on to web we we're out of time okay um obviously Mr Curley hasn't finished his testimony yet so um Mr curly next time we'll finish his testimony the board is going to ask questions our professionals will have questions the public will have the opportunity to ask him questions um sorry we didn't get to it tonight but we are out of time um so I guess we need to do two things first is um you I just kind of want to summarize some of the things that we've discussed as far as things we would like the applic applicant to consider um so I'll summarize what I have and people can jump in we mentioned you know can colors and materials be varied throughout the project um can there be more interest in the treatments of the corners or sides of the buildings that are going to be prominently visible from the street um we discussed you know possible rotation or movement of building one to maintain a 7th Avenue quter we discussed considering moving building four a few feet to allow plantings on web um we discussed can sprinklers rooms be switched so they're closer to the sidewalk than is there anything else that we wanted them to look at I think he said the new lights are going to be different than the existing lights so can you bring us a picture the old ones and the new ones the infrastructure um yes we yes absolutely and and those details are they are they're they're identical to the street lights they're going to be shorter so okay that's the only difference correct and the Lumin a in or onsite lights will be color temperature 2700 okay but the street lights will be the same ones that are already on Kingsley Street F that's correct okay anyone have any anything else we want them to look at before they come back sorry the additional width of the street being WI oh yeah we could have dimensions of the the streets that would be great um okay so we're going to have to carry this um for so ask you're okay with an extension of time I'd like to know when you're proposing to carry it to first okay fair enough Marie what dates do we have question anything toed you're going to do it as an exhibit not a plan change right what what's available and then I can take two seconds to ask so sorry case anybody can hear me something on the sth right the 7th is a possibility if there's nothing being changed we already have one application before you that that schedules right right we could give you half a meeting on the 7th half a meeting on the 7th the 28th we have nothing so far the 28th there's nothing there's a full meeting available on the 28th there's a full meeting available on the 18th of November if you'll give me two seconds let me just confirm is Barbara going to be back for the 20 yeah Bar's not going to be still Dan you're not just make meeting oh you going to hang out with that's a really good question build you know this this building could be shifted this way John's saying these driveways are 20 ft if these driveways were 18 ft and these driveways were 18t then this whole building could go 4T that yeah that's a lot of there lot not only but it's Street he's going Drive develop sorry thank thank you we just before we committed to a date wanted to make sure everyone was y so um because we'd like to consider looking at the plans we think although we would love to be here for the 7th we think October 28th is probably more realistic okay so if we could be carried to October 28th we would appreciate it all right um I'm going to make a motion to carry this application to October 28th with no further notice trust me oh yeah yeah before we before we carry it John go ahead I a question John John had a just a question for the engineer I believe you said the driveways are 20 ft they only have to be 18 that's correct so when you're relooking at everything since we're not meeting next week or anything can you look if you made them 18 ft can we shift the building 4 feet to give that because it may be 8 ft can the driveways be shorten to 18 ft and then we shift everything to like give more room on web Street for plannings I don't know if that does that no but you could move the you could move the 7 buildings back correct correct you can move something back it's two here there I think we there may be issues with that but we understand you like us to take a look just look into not telling you the next thank you so the motion is to carry this to October 28th uh with no new notice I motioned Jim seconded let's go um James Bano councilwoman Clayton yes Eric galipo yes Jim Henry yes mayor Moore Daniel sheno uh Jen saer yes Vice chair goon yes okay motion toour toj if an extension of time is needed we would allow an extension of time to the 28th so so anyone here for for this application just understand there will be no new notice the next meeting will be October 28th at 7:00 p.m. okay motion to adjourn second all in favor all in favor