hey welcome everyone today is Monday April 1st 2024 this is a regular meeting of the city of as everybody please we're starting hi go uh welcome everyone today's Monday April 1st 2024 this is a regular meeting at the city of Asbury Park planning board chairwoman k can you please call this meeting to order yes this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the coast Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and post on the municipal Bolton board and Municipal website all notices are on file with the board secretary official action may be taken on the following matters before the board fire exits are located on East and West sides of the council chambers as well as the back of the building I will ask anyone with a cell phone or other device to kindly silence your device for the duration of the meeting this meeting is being recorded by APV for your viewing pleasure in the near future um please join me in Pledge of [Music] Allegiance [Music] indice I I'll take R call James bonano councilwoman Clayton here Eric galipo here Jim Henry here mayor Moore is absent Daniel shano here Jennifer saer is absent Vice chair Mike goonan here chairwoman Barbara KAC here all right the first item we have is a resolution for um approval of 121 Memorial Avenue Redevelopment plan there was a presentation that was given to us by Miss MC uh where there were some modifications um anyone have any uh any concerns before we approve the resolution okay all right you want to do a roll call of who uh for approvals I'm sorry motion can I get a motion to approve the uh resolution second um James banano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Jim Henry yes Daniel shano yes Jennifer saer is absent Vice chair Mike gunan yes and chairman Barbara KAC yes okay next item that we have is the main street Redevelopment uh oh no no that's not true we have the um 614 cookman we've asked them to come back the Asbury Park Brewery excellent very good sorry thank you for coming back I'm sorry that we had to pull you back in that's okay just a for the record Madam chair Richard Tilton t l t n I'm an attorney in Allen Hurst New Jersey I'm here this evening on behalf of the applicant I was not at the hearing in February 26th I did have I I did review the um the hearing okay a few times good um as I understand it there was a question as to the actual size of the tenant space that's to be occupied is that correct there was a there was a question of um there was perhaps a misunderstanding it's where um I personally understood it as the frontage would be four they four storefronts correct my understanding maybe it's a misunderstanding that that the brewery was taking on two of those locations that's why we did the approval for a 10- foot sign versus a 5 foot sign that was perhaps a misunderstanding but it sounded as though when I went to another meeting on the sub subsequent day I saw that there were other people there were going to be four tenants when thought there were only going to be three okay so that's why I have asked you to come back perfect okay um Mr serpo I have just a couple of exhibits to Mark and Under The Heading of a picture is worth a thousand words I think the um first exhibit that I'm going to offer I think it's it was the applicant packet marked ever do you know no so this will be this would be now did we have anything mark that I don't think you did I don't so I don't think so there was one thing no there was there was this this I think this depiction right in front of pardon me I believe it was this one and I believe we also Mark my report because we had to give it to the yes right correct I I noticed that this looks like2 usually let's make yeah let's make this A1 okay what I'm so A1 and I'm going to hand these out to the board A1 is a um schedule from the applicants um leasehold and it shows the footprint of their store relative to the remaining balance of the building and then appended to it is the um p is page five of Mrs Miller's report uh that shows the elevation of the building it seemed as so the board was making reference to that back and forth during the dialogue so I wanted to put those together so you have that as a reference and then um the next exhibit would be A2 and that is uh 11 photographs the first three of the photographs are of the premisis in question it's the subject store two different shots of that and the elevation of the entire building the remaining um photos phot me okay I I'll qualify myself God help us so then um uh photographs 4 through 11 are pictures of the the cookman area the cookman Avenue um core retail area there was a lot of testimony questions back and forth about signs blade signs signs of different shapes Etc so we're going to talk about that just ever so briefly so if I could the primary issue I know what the prim yeah I hear you okay I almost gave you [Music] mine do you need one Jack [Applause] or yes that would help that would help ran Durant b r i a n d r a n Diller boarder okay Mr TR I'm showing you um what's marked as A1 if you would um describe to the board what it is your space and um yeah how it relates to the rest of the building first of all thank you for coming back so we can uh figure this whole thing out so this is the entire building of 614 coper there are now four tenants in there we occupy the top space that's on the eastern wall it's about 32 what is it 3275 square foot next to us to if you're going from east to west is accompanied by the name of Vidia Vidia is going to occupy that entire space up to the back and then majority of the entire back of the building plus the second floor balcony the next one with that middle wall went up in probably since our last um since the last time I was here this is a new space nobody NE definitely knows what's going in there there's been a lot of rumors of what's going on there but I don't know what build what is actually going there the final one on the bottom is the one called the Bak bear they're an ice cream shop um and just to clear you know what I had said because we watched the video is that we had said that we are occupying a bigger space we are occupying a bigger Space by square footage and we are occupying a bigger space than the baked bear um by store Frontage that's what I was trying to um explain during our last one just because it we do have a bigger space uh specifically if you're talking about the Baked Bear which is the only person who's in there right now other than that it's just construction material and stuff all over and then the second page just to just so we're clear this this is the building of elevation from page five of um the planner's report I'm just going to ask if you would I'm noticing that the the door is all the way to the Far East to the left and if you would just talk about that versus where you proposed to put the sign um I noticed that the other signs are all appear to be over oriented over the doors at I don't believe in your instance that's really a possibility so if you would talk about that sure after you know you guys gave us your recommendations I agreed with I think it was Council saying that you know could you make a 10 foot and put it in the center of the building and attach it to the bottom of the s in doing that you know we're perfectly fine with that it makes sense it's big enough at know the 10t size to be able to clearly read Asbury Park brewery all right one of our the tenant it's baked barrs I know it sounds silly but it's less letters Asbury Park brewery takes up a large size so we were going to put it by your recommendation a 10-ft sign directly on the saet attached to the building in the dead center of our space and by that well the dead center would it be centered on the window panels or centered where would you you propose this we're now looking at A2 if you would a so it's if you see there's this it's gypson board or whatever you want to call it it would actually you see where that one it's a square hole with a looks like a gas line coming down if it was centered in there if you Lo if you look up on the top of the building there's these four Ribs Right Above Us 1 2 3 four going across it would be right in the center of that where those two ribs are at 10t across does your in that photograph does your space end that g or it go past that it goes past but it's fractionally it goes past just by enough that like is it enough that it's is that one full window pane no at the gerder are there on Friday pictures so it's at the demise is at you know what is the width of that St I want to say it's 21' 4 in so I'm curious what what is the stock here exactly who who drew it where did it come from it's from his lease it's from his lease agreement okay an exhibit to the leas it's an exhibit to the lease agreement the the shading is from us the shading is just so the board could see what space is being questioned because it's interesting to me because for the amended approval that we gave to SackMan uh and as part of the resolution compliance review I've done the architectural plans you know don't show the door location that I don't think they knew so I think he's using an old version of the floor plan to useing his lease documents which you know it's close enough right but yeah I mean the Dem in line is is per the mode architectural plans that we had seen as part of the site plan approval um but the door is all the way to the east the way it's I mean it's it's great they've gotten to the point in the construction now you can see what's going on with the storefront um and the baked bear has their sign installed but they're not occupying yet um so you can you know really get a sense of the perspective the size of the sign for each St FR does the big be simar they have the same size sign that was permitted by C approval so 18 in tall by 5T long over door over the size of their storefront is different from us it's 5et short so part of their storefront at the Bak Fair houses the stairs that go up to the second floor so his window space is not as wide but his overall tenant space is you know from the exterior Western Wall to the entrance part of that window is the entrance to the second floor St um and are you saying the door is not going to go here or the door is going to go here it is there it's there it's there yes yes and a 10- foot sign would be it would expand it would not fit between those two brick profiles I didn't measure those because I couldn't get up there I think that's like 8T across don't quote me but it's it would be just a little bit over them in the dead center of the space uh proportional to both sides just for the for the record and to help them the the am I correct the door unit the door is about 7 ft in width and then the two Windows the two window panels next to it measure about 20 1/2 ft something along those lines does that sound right well the entire space across is 202 ft so the doors are probably to your point maybe six of those 20 something feet across it might be 7 feet sure your space is 202t yes yes it is that's the frontage and In fairness like the board should have known the applicant should have known like that was I mean to me thought a Germaine issue that should have been before everybody and we can see that we're glad to come back and we apologize for any misunderstanding I I in watching the tape I saw there was questions about the other tenants and then there was a lot of cross dialogue between people and no one ever no one no one nowhere is the width of the store identified and that really was a disservice so so essentially it looks like your store Farm is a little bit under 21 ft it looks like the visually from this this display that you've provided this one shows that the second and the third storefront are about they're the two of them look like they're the same size but they look like they're bigger than 20 ft they are they are okay so so those two are bigger than 20 feet and how much is the bear do we know is 15 all right so the bear is 15t yours is 20 feet and the two that are in the middle do we know how big they are how wide they are so my measurement of the architectural plans which we approved are about 25 ft and change from the center line of the demising so less less than 26 feet both of them are less than 26 ft but greater than 25 okay all right so go ahead that's interesting because in the initial uh submissions the uh Frontage was 100 feet on the cookman Avenue side and 99.8 something on the uh Lake Side so what happened to the other feet what how do we uh there could there's brick wall here marble pillar on each side to yeah the rest of the facade with yes that's why it's not quite okay all right so now you're here let's clarify for wire here that we're talking about the sign correct and um I don't know if we're going to talk about the blade sign but I think we've already talked about the blade sign yeah but I think that the issue that really lies here is is the size of the sign that we had originally approved a 10 foot um with this new information it's a question of what do we feel is appropriate as a board so that's where we stand my and the original um approval was for four five foot signs mhm foot and a half tall 5 foot wide my proposal is that we go with the 5 foot for everybody just like we had originally because it is four storefronts 5 foot a piece and a blad for this particular business there's a blades Sun what if I'm happy to have other discussions if anybody feels differently yeah so for me I think for me the most important thing is consistency the fact that they are all underneath the I'm going to call it a safit term good job thank you um to me that's the most important thing um in this case to me it seems issue like of branding Asberry Park brewery all written out is probably going to for an appropriate size font need to be longer than 5T if it was consistent with the other ones I wouldn't care if it was a little bit longer especially if it's taking up less than half of their storefront um my personal I would agre with Michael I don't mind if it's a little longer I think as long as it's located the same uh I think it would still look appropriate and what length would that be I'm not sure how they design it but I personally would like to keep it you know in the confines or Ling with the you know brick rows if want we have I don't know if that's 8et I me you know if you think about I I know we approve 5T all of them but if it's the what that there is 15 ft 13 so here you know it's almost 7t saying proportional to yeah yeah no you're saying proportional to could you show that again could you show that again Dan the Pyers on the front right between what between what yes pil okay so between the two pilers whatever that do we have any idea how big that is all right Donna's going to figure out how between between no the length of one of these whatever that is okay is there a dimension yeah we need we need to have some idea of what that Dimension is are you putting any I don't know is that and we do have this this was after you guys gave me a recommendation we went back to our signed person who's also doing well also did the bake bear also this is kind of what it's going to look like we moved over a little bit to the left I don't know if if we it was submitted to the board it's 8883 it's the um it's still the old elevation of the building and it shows the 120 in by the 18 in in height this would be A3 you have to I don't I only have one of these so you have to pass it [Music] around so that's what it would kind of look like it would be shifted over a little bit again so that it's it's proportional to those ribs coming down the building what's the dimension of that is 10t by 18 in yeah following the last meeting I'd like to find out what that's that's not within that range that you were talking about Dan Donal yeah it's not within it's not within this area we wanted it between here right so this sign is too large but can we get I don't know if Donna do we have that what what are we looking for I'm sorry what is the what are you calling that I I can measure it all right go ahead so I think it's about 5T between the brick bands the flat spot those each of those is 5T wide and then the bricks themselves are those stripes are to it looks it looks like if that's true based on this drawing that's about right because it looks like it's 20 fet before you get to the next tenant so what you're saying Donna sounds exactly right so we're we're back to 5et here oh here take a look that's that's the 10 foot doesn't bother but I mean for consistency's sake we also don't know what the future is going to bring and this two unit may be subdivided into one down the road so five feet yeah and you're getting a blade sign yes there's a blade sign in addition to this what do you think and I mean just looking at that it looks like that can't be much more than 8et between it looks looks like it's 5T between just another another item to consider where the new tenants on the uh two middle one two three units come in are we going to have the same issue that we have here with this no they if they want anything more than 5 ft they'll have to come that doesn't mean we have to approve it it just means that they may come I totally understand that and I I totally agree with what you're saying that we don't want to kick this down the road so we have a problem with the next two attendant either so I agree with you I think uh it needs to be shortened if I may um just for we've been around since 2016 over in our spot over here and um I'd like to think that we've done extremely well by the town putting in a good very good light now in cookman I understand that you guys want to have uniformity across but if you go down cookman there's sizes there's signs of all different shapes and sizes that everybody else why we want the uniformity now on the one building I understand then everybody else has different ones which my point is video say it's video that's five letters Baked Bear nine letters where we don't even get to brewery and we're bigger than that size so making us trying to fit into a small sign is not going to be the best to advertise our product which brings people to the town our neighbors want it I've Tau to our neighbors they're in our space what your neighbors want that's right unless they're here okay fair enough um and again it's it's bringing a positive thing to the town now if you can't drive by and you can't see it because it's all smooshed then is that really doing anybody any service and again the hence the blade sign what hence the blade sign I understand that but again if if you have a five- foot sign and the guy has five letters in his name we have 16 but signage standards exist in all municipalities and businesses have different main lengths it's just my only thing is when you go down cookman there's different sizes and different likes that Ed that's happened over a 100 years okay and the Redevelopment plans only been effect for and you have an approved project part of the signage was a variance to or design exception to the so asking for further exception we have to work to amend the overall project I get right get your point that's what it's entirely decision is and a building we're looking for consistency asbery Park also abbreviates nicely into AP oh I don't know about that so for you for your brand right okay I mean it's just fin all the the sizes of the front of them are different so not only is the Big Bear different from us and so having everybody have to be the same we're not in the same from the starting line is a little different and this is this is the reason for the request for summary leave from the design standards and considering there's really going to be no negative impact to the neighborhood I understand that this is an approved package doesn't need to satisfy the negative criteria positive well I mean I think what is that prevents you from complying that is the threshold for a design okay well are you able to like get fit your whole name on the the sign and to call the people appropriately to your to your business I mean the second part of the question is not so can we fit the the name on our sign of course will you be able to read it probably not you're jamming all that stuff into one area that's this this is 5T you're jamming the entire name of the Asberry Park Nott I'm six table the table six okay all right so was off a little bit so that's 5et the entire fig in the middle of the folder pass that all right so so what is it so you would need a small font size to I understand it but in the world of advertising if you have a smaller sign and they can't read it it's useless which is why the board granted you a second sign MH and if you don't like five and we don't like 10 I'll meet you in the middle like I did last time I have no problem with meeting in the middle or making it longer this way and maybe I can jam it so it says ASB Park brewery under it sorry but to do all the way across is going to be tough and again the whole idea for the SST for people to read it want to consider something else from F no not it's not for not for me but I don't know if I'm I'm only one vot I'm only one vote ER we'll start with you I think the addition of the second sign makes this like makes this bigger sign not as necessary and I'm also a big believer that people moving at the rate of a pedestrian are not going to have any trouble reading the sign even if this font is relatively small you could also work with your graphic designer on creative ways of how this the Turning of the letters may be condensed you could abbreviate AP instead of Asbury Park there's you know there there's a lot of room for creativity within that graphic design Michael I am not opposed to a longer sign 10 might be too much but maybe like eight especially because it's a very this sign is a very simple unintrusive design um black and white I'd be okay with longer but one no one yes to possible um I like uniformity and I think we approved uniformity regionally and we were willing to negotiate because we thought the size of the stores was twice as long as it is and so I'm with Barbara on okay Barbara I gu I am I am with I am leaving it at 5T Jim I'm also at 5T I would I have no problem with being longer I have no problem being got essentially a four to three keep at 5 [Music] to so there you go we got we got a 4 to three and you want a motion no because you weren't here I don't believe that Eric actually gets ER I'm I can participate parp my point being to is I understand did the 5 let's just say those two you one big tenant that takes those two middle stores and has his one store you know they they be dwar but you know such a big space that's just a 5 foot they're not going to put two signs but technically it could put two 5 foot sign so I mean I think that maybe should be a little bit of that's my reason right but he doesn't have two spaces no but he's he's even smaller than the other two I understand logic yep so I mean if we Cent there you say like sevenet seven or seven and a [Music] half your application your I'll let you speak to the size that you want to you're going to ask them to consider the original request was 10 it was 15 sorry correct so we're back to the original application the vote was invalid that because was based on this information so currently your application stands at 10 if you want to move to amend to a small size sign and ask the board to consider voting on it that's up to you I mean I would or the Bo's going to vote on the on the 10 and we don't get the approval I I you know to I'm sorry should I've been here so many times um if it's uh if we to your point if we could meet in the middle instead of having 10 not five seven and a half we're fine all right so before we do that uh we need to open up your testimony cross examination by members in right got any motion for uh any questions from the public [Music] second he no let's close motion to close second are you done with your presentation yes do you have anything else to add yeah that's it and just for the record I think it was 5' 3 in just for the record just whatever whatever everybody keeps saying 5 it appears at in count so yes open to public comment motion so move second all fav anyone from the public that would like to give any uh testimony any comments no okay uh let's close not talking okay uh any any comments from uh so you would you would like to characterize your application you want characterizing it as a request for instead of a 10 15 what have you whatever initially was you want to make it seven you want to go 7 and2 ft in with is that what your if that's a meet in the middle yes please okay and the other dimensions would stay the same and the blade sign would stay the same all the requirements that we approved would stay the same yes uh is there anyone on the board that would make a motion for that relief I'll make a motion to approve with the by all the other original second I'll second that so any discussion on the motion before you call a all all right keep in mind that there are six eligible members you need a majority for an approval are you um James Bano yes Council mton no Jim Henry no Daniel shano yes Mike good yesman bar no okay thank you very much thank you yourself a 5.3 you hear yourself oh yeah wait was that just as to the um is there a counter motion then because we had well you got there still Stu everything includes the blade sign we have the blade sign because that's part of the whole appliation right it's it's everything that was approved last time except the length of the sign so that it had to be lit things that we had talked Sor we got a denial of the well then I beg everyone's pardon and it I would have asked for it to been bifurcated as to the sign the frontage sign and the blade sign so that would be that would have been the motion like for keeping the blade sign and honoring the 5T 3 in sign that's a second that's let's let's let's take another prac can I get a motion coming back and back and back uh whether or not you want the length of the correct yes and it was it was from what I remember was 36 in from the brick so no the sign is 36 the yes in right on The Brak so there's not like a couple more inches and then the sign no there's a gap for the yeah but it's all 36 we said total projection was 36 36 total projection 36 in it was what was on the diagram it came out 36 in it I'll reference the diam yes perfect there there is one thing that that I would like to add if it's if it's all right uh one thing that did come to mind is that we also would need besides the right of way from the Council we I would also believe that we would need that you would need the approval of the landlord to we had that sign we have that we provided it to um I provided a letter had discussion with Andy GIS today okay he he he spoke to Carter and got back and said he was were fine with the application so I can confirm that I can make that okay all right then uh the next motion is I'm to talk to keep the length of the sign as was originally approved at 5T and all of the conditions of the blade sign that was approved last sure I get that time sure I'd like to make that motion second I'm sorry who was the second okay James Bano yes Council woman M Clayton yes Jim Henry yes Dani sh yes Vice chair yes chairwoman yes okay thank you got blade sign blade sign and a 5 foot 3 in sign okay thank you thank you Donna thank you Jack thank you I appreciate it all right the next item we have on the agenda is Main Street Redevelopment plan Amendment for the Mercy Center hello everybody second just GNA put a couple slides I just want stuff so bad looks so you don't need to thank you thanks for coming thank yeah I just got to project it give me one sec TR make [Music] sure do you still have we've been noticing prior to any supposition that was coming next door that there's oils which surprising um and we have never seen it before we don't we have no way knowing but it seems highly coincidental well but you can see it oh I no I can see you can see it on the lot next year you can smell it oh I can smell it on the lot next year until they do their radial testing and once they get up to close to our property if they detect then we have a problem like we have to talk to them about like what are you going to do about this because it's infecting groundwater we eat vegetables out the ground M you fig tree a peach tree vegard there's something happening but we going to first get a a sweep of our property with a tank detector but I've lived there for 40 years don't think we have so did you ever have I do sure my name is Elizabeth mcmanis Beth mcmanis MCM andus I'm the city planning consultant make this presentation by City yes thank you very much uh so folks I'm here tonight to talk to you about another Redevelopment plan Amendment this one is also a site specific Redevelopment plan Amendment but I think it's much more simple than some of the others I've come before you um the sense that we're really just taking care of a couple of changes in your Main Street Redevelopment plan and so more specifically this is an amendment to your Main Street Redevelopment plan for the Mercy Center that's uh block 2805 lot 17 also known as 1108 to 1110 Main Street also known as the site at the corner of Main Street in Third Avenue and right here on the cover slide you can see a photograph uh of the site it currently consists of three buildings that uh constitute a single tract essentially here's a survey of the property just to give you a better sense as to what the existing layout and sight conditions are as I said it's uh it's three buildings I guess technically two uh in the sense that the two buildings are connected towards the rear but it presents as three buildings along Main Street it's a property of a little more than a third of an acre like I said it's a corner property at Maine and third and it's in your Main Street Redevelopment plan but more specifically it's in the community shopping district of that Redevelopment plan and so the purpose for this plan amendment is is really to Simply uh overall I would say it's to facilitate the upgrade of the existing Mercy Center facility and in order to do that there are a couple uh a couple of sort of subp purposes the first is to Simply permit the use right now the use has been operating for uh operating there for more than 30 years but it is not a uh permitted use in the district um and so you'll see that Amendment we also uh intend to uh simply sort of uh as part of that facilitate the replacement of those obsolete buildings that exist on the property and as part of uh this facilitation I would say there's also no acknowledgement of the increased service demand that is being experienced by the Mercy Center that's really precipitated this request to city council um and I may interrup please this property received the use variance in 99 correct uh I don't have that history it may have attorney yeah okay was was definitely they definitely had a proven ruse variance case for use that makes sense because I'm not sure when it would have been a permitted use in the district um so here's an aerial photograph of the site you can see the uh the three properties generally in the in the the middle of the screen on the other side of Main Street labeled as Route 71 uh on Google just in reflection of the the state highway characteristic or jurisdiction rather and so like I said this is a relatively straightforward Redevelopment plan Amendment first and foremost the the plan Amendment simply adds the permitted use and that's a food pantry and a soup kitchen and that is uh the type of service additional services are also provided by Mercy Center but that is the service the portion of what they do on the property that's not currently permitted in the district we're also going to permit accessory rooftop garden and seating on this specific site uh and then the Redevelopment plan also includes a handful of enhanced zoning and design standards so while this Redevelopment plan does not include the concept plan the building renderings that uh that I've put before you and other Redevelopment plan drafts instead of taking it to that level of detail what this plan does instead is it simply permits the use and uh states that there are an additional there's an enhanced design that's required and that's done through uh those several design requirements set forth in the Redevelopment plan Amendment are you asking so you asking to change the permitted use in the Redevelopment plan itself yes to include this or only on this site only on this property so this the what's the difference of having a variance for that use and and doing the underlying zoning like so so the Redevelopment plan does not permit Zoning Board of adjustment applications the Redevelopment plan does not permit Zoning Board of adjustment applications so if you need a use variance a height variance um if you were going to need an F variance for example you would need to seek an amendment to the Redevelopment plan and so that's exactly why the council's proceeded in this way but again this would be specific only to this correct correct not having food plant pantries as uses correct it's just simply to this does the Redevelopment plan covers more of those proper yeah the Redevelopment plan yeah essentially the Main Street Corridor uh breaks it up into a couple different zones and then specifically this site only this property would be permitted to have the food pantry and subject to these additional standards that I referenced in this rooftop G that's the AR bar next to it right yes and that has like a rooftop going right so what's the difference well the arbar has their has a very different um economic model shall we say uh and so this rooftop garden would simply be for the for the purpose served by the uh by the Mercy Center it's not associated with a with an active commercial use it would be associated with the uh the activities the services that would be planned for this specific property it would not be uh it would be separate and distinct they got they got a rooftop so doesn't the isn't the permission already there but it's because of it's commercial use and this is I don't have the history I don't have the history with the ARB bar use and and how that rooftop garden may have come to be and so what this does is specifically permits it so is to ensure that there's no question as to whether or not a use variance would be necessary yeah and then I'm sorry just the last thing because then this is my last slide and we'll talk about all the details but the last thing that the uh the development plan does is it also uh creates a site specific or and use specific uh parking requirement for the site at um one space per 1,400 gross uh square feet so it also has a a site specific parking requirement and I'm sorry I I know you had a question I just wanted to get that out in your discussion with Dan you mentioned a food pantry is that the same as a soup kitchen and if not what what are you asking for so the city defines those two terms as a single use uh there there may be uh separate uses you know an organization elsewhere might call itself a soup Pantry versus a or a EXC me a soup kitchen versus a food pantry but here in the city there a single there a single use in your definitions so it's essentially uh a location where uh food is provided to to folks in need as as opposed to a restaurant where food is provided for sale uh a food pantry generally is not where you provide cooked food it's generally where you provide food for cooking there is a a substantial difference is it the intention to provide hot meals or prepared meals on site for distribution or is it consumption the the Emergency Center currently provides a what would be I think is commonly referred to as a food pantry uh I believe that I believe that is their intention but what this Redevelopment plan does it allows uh soup kitchens and food pantries which are an existing use identified in the city code to be permitted on the property does that mean onsite consumption of foods it it permits soup kitchens and food pantry soup kitchens would provide for on-site consumption I don't believe their intention is to provide for that but the Redevelopment plan simply the existing City ordinance definition lumps those two activities in one use this Redevelopment correct so so are you just for my own Clarity are you saying that that today it is used as a as a pantry correct correct but are we saying that it's not allowed to be used for a food pantry today but it is being used as that it's not that it's operating illegally it's that the use is not a permitted use in the District this use previously received approval via the use variant as Mr Surfer Co referenced so it's not operating illegally but it is not a permitted use and so any expansion any any expansion would require a use variance legally nonconforming the only the only requirement that the only time the the use varience application granted certain uses at the prop the only reason you would go on to change this to is if you have an expansion of uses because they have every right to continue to operate in the current manner they're operating so if so just make sure you understand that if it's not there's not much of an expansion you understand that but that that goes to your question it's already permitted to offer the services that it renders at the current time but when you're saying that you're looking to expand where is this expansion going to happen like when when you're saying it I don't know what it means when you say it's going to expand are we changing the building are we moving the building my expectation is the buildings will be eliminated will be raised and replaced so a building that is my expectation do we know which building all three of these buildings are subject to the Redevelopment plan my expectation could come down correct are coming down we have to change online because you know you can't you [Music] got Recon are you going to ask are we going to be asking relief from other issues in the expansion is in other words it's going to be bigger than the zon allows or development the Mercy Center is represented to me that they believe their upcoming application will comply with the rest of the Main Street Redevelopment plan however that application will come before all of you just like any other application if they do need relief they'll make that request if they need D variance relief well it simply won't be able to proceed but to the extent that they might need design relief or C variances that would come to you and the board would have the ability to to weigh that variance relief just like you have for any other application so is it fair to say that what this is doing is facilitating a comprehensive Redevelopment of the site that is in conformance with the general outlines of the Redevelopment plan what it is doing is making the use permitted did in the future on this one site only correct yes yes good why is this coming in two steps why wouldn't you come before us uh asking for a modification to the uh existing plan at the time that you are presenting a u a preliminary plan so the process for doing so is exactly what's what's occurred here they're not able to come to the planning board to request through an through an application or otherwise to request a change to the Redevelopment plan that's a council action and so what they've done is they've applied to council if you will to make this request there was a public information meeting in I forget the date I'm sorry at winter of this year of uh these last couple months where they presented their application the council supported the the proposed Redevelopment plan Amendment to the extent that they asked me to author author the change and then obviously I did so and they've referred it to all of you and that's the process that's supposed to occur this is this tonight's meeting is part of the council's consideration of the Redevelopment plan Amendment request and then if presumably if the council adopts the plan Amendment a site plan application will be prepared and there'll be an application before all of you for site plan approval can would you mind going back to to the where we see the three buildings on the here okay so are we saying that it the new are are we approving those three buildings to become whatever they could become whatever this the survey is just simply here for information because the property lines are unusual it's not just simply a square property and I wanted to give folks some more information so property is all of this it is yes it is all of of of that dark line my expectation is that the whole property will be subject to their Redevelopment to their new plan okay can you talk about when you're saying that you're looking for some relief and amending the parking standards can you tell me tell us about what it is today and what you're looking for well right now the use is not permitted in the district and so there's no specific parking standard allocated to it instead what we have is a site specific parking uh ratio that's applied in the Redevelopment plan of one parking space per uh 1,400 square feet and what that's intended to do is to uh accommodate the uh their anticipated parking Demand on the property and I I say it in that way because typically when we talk about the anticipated parking demand it's maybe not here in Asbury Park where you have so much walkability but for Simplicity sake in suburbs the anticipated parking demand is everybody that's going to come to the property here what we have for this particular use is we have a sub substantial number of folks that are visiting the property and are doing so on foot or on bicycle and that's just I think I think common sense to the nature of folks that are uh visiting the location as a food pantry it seems more relevant that you would provide parking fore employees and those providing service to the site and necessarily customers and so the 1400 square foot is recognizing that it's not a retail operation it's an employee operation so you're asking for required for this client are com yes for this particular site but not from us they're not asking us it's in the Redevelopment plan I'm not asking for the board to consider relief it's it's one it's one of the changes in the Redevelopment plan the Redevelopment plan has a parking so I guess why you have it up there there's a parking requirement for different uses I assume in the r development bill right but this year of course it's not exactly so but I mean what is it so because this, 1400 ft more or less than it is for other uses I would say it's Le it's going to require less parking than than you would require for other than are required for other other uses significantly yes which is appropriate yeah it's totally it it is appropriate when when you're talking about the, 1400 Square F feet like what like what is that like is that like future building that whole somewhere on that side no no it's of the future building it's one parking space of the future building not of the future building correct yes it's the lot or is it the building the building all right whatever this new building is yes and with this with this 2800 square feet they would have to do two parking spaces providing more exactly don't get hung up on what you're seeing yeah this is not this is that go away that's noty is the ultimate use of the property what I'm I'll tell you what I'm hung up on is I get that it's a service so it's kind of like you need enough parking for the people that are going to be there to work there mostly employees and mostly employees yes so okay so does that discussion come when you come in front of us and say oh well we anticipate this many people will be coming to to work here and we will have the appropriate amount of parking for those people is that later or is that now I that's certainly part of your site plan application what's before the board tonight is just simply the revised parking ratio for this site as well as the other standards asking if you have other comments so if the board felt that that parking ratio were inadequate that could be a comment and then obviously the next maybe not obviously but the next step in all this I want to talk about the master plan that in your recommendations that you normally VI right you would say requested to Mayor and counsel specifically address make sure that the parking demand is adequately the on-site parking demand is adequately addressed in whatever the Amendments plan well for for the amount of people that are that are servicing anticipated demand for parking yeah so TP typically I think what you see in this type of use is that you look to understand the maximum number of employees who would be present on the site at a certain time and you target that number and that's where your calculation comes in exactly that's what I'm look asking us to do one space for 1400 she's not asking I'm not I'm telling you what is in the draft Redevelopment plan the board's role is to either provide comments on the contents of the Redevelopment plan or not but then certainly to make findings regarding master plan consistency this is the typical master plan referral is to find inconsistencies or consistencies with the master plan and such other comment you wish to make which is why we might add in remember these are recommendations only they're non-binding on the mayor and councel so the point of it is is that you don't we always handle it that if you have a specific point that you want to make a recommendation on and say look just remember when you're reviewing this for adoption because they're the legislative branch of government you're telling them okay make sure you don't forget this parking make sure the parking demand the parking requirement is commensurate with the square footage of the the building the uses on the property etc etc and that's how you do it okay I thrown out there I thought they were 1400 for one space for 1400 ft okay okay course it was up there to right to do something with the parking we say nothing except make sure it's okay make sure that I have to anticipate that the planners are going to have some input into the creation of the ordinance okay the ordinance Amendment and they with their knowledge they're supposed to know what your your ratios what you really need for specific type of uses and so on and that there's Consultants with the city and they're going to make recommendations to the city all you're doing is say hey don't forget this make sure it's addressed Beth is here she's a licensed planner she will know that when the presentation is made that one of the concerns of the board is make sure you got ad dep for what's going to go here that's you bring it up to the mayor and councel then it's up to the mayor and councel to hear what she says put it into the plan and if there's any deviation or minor deviation or something like that they can be fre you for either a variance or design exception but not wholesale of okay we're only going to give you 10% of the parking none of that that that would be ridiculous this is that I mean is that the end of your presentation that's it it's very it's a simple straightforward uh short amendment I characterize it correctly yes yes I should say I have master plan language that I want to share but I thought typically the board wants to talk about comments first then we do master plan so mhm no the uh I mean the only thing that that was the only thing that I'm concerned about is to make sure that the employees have enough space so I have few this should be very quick question so broadly though the bulk and design of the building will match the rest of the Redevelopment plan standards so absolutely floor Heights and total height and setbacks has there been any um consideration that we hope this corner will not end up up as a parking lot uh there are okay good yes parking the behind the building yes I would love to just make sure that it feels like a commercial District form is that something that we should put in there or as a recommendation or do you already know that that's parking noted on Main Street now you couldn't have parking right along Main Street but I just want to know for what our recommendation is to the council this is tear down it's tear down yeah but so my question is as long as the rest of the Redevelopment plan applies applies we're going to end up with something that looks like what we hope Main Street okay correct and I will say in terms of third access from that street is prohibited so access is required to come from Main Street so in terms of how that corner will be treated uh certainly cannot be treated with an access in addition to the parking requirements already set forth in the Redevelopment plan there's no part no no Engish on third correct okay I also have another question you mentioned rooftop uh deck MH why in this kind of a facility would that be required so the Mercy Center is proposing a variety of services at their property uh all of the other services are consistent with your Redevelopment your permitted uses in the Redevelopment plan uh I should say they are considering I can't speak to what will certainly be proposed but one of those may be um uh uh a cafe as well as uh outdoor uh seating discussion areas and so that's that's perhaps what that roof area may be used for so that conditional use or permitted use that we're discussing now might include a commercial Cafe it may that would be a permited use in your District though I want to highlight commcial a commercial cafe or or soup kitchen on on the roof that's my point I want to speak definitively because it's because as you know this is not a Redevelopment plan that that provides a floor plan for example my understanding is it may include a cafe uh that would be uh open to both clients as well as uh potentially for public as well I feel like we always we're always asking for more up Greenery and I don't know why just on that block the hurly store has second floor outdoor spaceace un and if this open at night and we know the work of the Mercy Center is to provide service that often Works in discussion groups and supportive groups and having an outdoor space to do that could be nice addition whether that is Food Service or classes or support groups seems irrelevant it's right it seems consistent the way seems consistent with what's going on there yes anyone else have any statements that they'd like to make from uh the board any questions of Beth no can we open up to the public yeah I do okay go ahead because I you know we're not seeing the property so like for instance I I don't know what that means you put the whole roof you have a fruit kitchen on the whole roof M and I don't know I I don't know where the building coverage is going to be is it going to go back and is it going to be that that overlooking Residential Properties now I mean that's something to consider I think that that correct me if I'm wrong that's something that we make a determination during site plan right absolutely I would say uh just like any other application if they put forth a site plan application that raises significant concerns from the board members perhaps because of impact in neighbors that would be something that the board would address directly with the applicant during their testony there should be if you're going to try and limited square footage or a ratio rooftop and wear on the rooftop that could be in the that could be in the legislation now again they don't have to do that because there's if there's no objective standard that we would got be guided by for site plan and they Comm in for the entire roof and the plan is silent uh we wouldn't what how how can you turn them down exactly if they well that's the point though the point is predictability so predictability for the applicant predictability for residents and predictability for the city and so if they arrive after the city council decides to amend this Redevelopment plan if they arrive at the planning board with a site plan application that conforms our job is to tell them whether or not it conforms not to that's our job you can't change the standards you can't change the standards right but but at this point yeah but Jack was just saying like if it's not in the plan and they could put it anywhere and put on the whole then we can't say anything at that point yeah you can put in a comment respectful recommendation that uh the mayor and Council consider the location of the any rooftop uh Open Spaces be located in the appropriate location facing Main Street right facing Main Street not facing you know plan and you're here so that's the task you got to go back and bring that information back I think that that's that's fair the only thing that we probably don't know is what what are the setbacks how far back do you have to you see cuz that's I mean but I guess you know what we we're talking about is that you know what I don't know what's behind at this point today I don't know what's behind there so it's like if you have somebody's backyard you you do you don't want that rooftop to be over that backyard so it would have to be set back some amount of feet do you participate in the drafting of the ordance yes yes so you understand we're asking for an intelligent approach a logical approach and I think that's she hears you go back with so that intelligent logical really good repurpose of this problem to to the uses that were permitted want we continue to be I will say that in our discussions in council meeting we've already addressed neighbors parking the issues and we were in favor of ADV point it's a valid consideration all of you care about that whenever we have rooftops you know you don't want people partying away over people's back one recommendation I would have is that when this Redevelopment plan comes up for consideration at Council meetings that neighbors be specifically notified like that this is coming up and you should be here to hear it like to see just the 200 feet neighbor should get a notice they will I know it's not required they no you have to follow the statute and if you go beyond what the statute says whether you're enhancing or decreasing you the statutory requirements no no I just said you know I'm saying that it would be nice if when the council is considering this and reading the ordinances that they notify neighbors that it's being considered at a meeting think it has to be with neighbors within 200 I think it has to be no it doesn't there's no statutory requirement for redevelopment plans to receive notice I'm I think I think that that's something that that is fair for us to to request yeah it's it's a recommendation that when the counil is bringing this up please provide notice to neighbors that there is a public meeting concerning this project and their properties that's all be to the same standard M no they're this is nonbinding they don't have they're not held to anything this is just us saying that we when this Redevelopment plan is consider it's being a good neighbor to 200 ft neighbors should be it's like the city being a good neighbor all right got be careful we're treading we're treading on statutory ahead Sor I got all right so it's that it's parking and it's location of the roof deck at this point right those are the three things I have the rooftop considerations you know portion location right uh notification neighbors 200t what was the third the third was that parking for uh the the people that work there oh parking uh yeah appropriate parking for the people that work there how did you say anticipated parking demand I'm sorry what was that how did you say it anticipated parking demand anticipated parking demand okay there you go anticipated parking demand I think the board's comment if you're looking to put a word to it the board wants to ensure that the parking on the property or the parking ratio will satisfy the anticipated parking demand correct for employees for employees correct yeah thank you yeah any other uh comments by our members planning board or ma or I think it's often said as maximum shift right mhm yeah that's another way to put it okay um any can we get a motion to open up the comments to the public second anyone from the public would like to speak just feel free at the the executive director of Mercy Center I just want to say thank you to Beth um raise my right hand nothing but the truth we got so I just wanted to say thank you to Beth and to Ivonne for spending so the councilwoman for spending so much time I also want to introduce the finance chairman who's going to have to pay for all of this Larry Downs in the back of the board of directors uh Board of Trustees at Mercy Center I want to do quick things because I know the concerns um we've already noticed our neighbors 200 fet the neighbors came and testified in support of the application the rooftop is not going to be I know this is killing you because he was here would say speak to M please my my lawyer would say less is more but I I you know the questions were already considered I didn't want you to sit here and think that we hadn't thought about it we We are tearing down 20 to 60 year old buildings and putting up a new one it's going to be wholly consistent except for the the details put out in the proposed ordinance with everything the planning board wants literally the answer to all the questions were what would you like it to be because all we really want to do is make a facility that's modern and fits into the Redevelopment Zone and looks good and fits with the Redevelopment Zone we went with a rooftop because we're losing a park and in that Park during covid we did all of our group therapy to your point um also uh one last parking roof rooftop and neighbors and so as I said the neighbor who's most impacted not our bar the most impacted is the neighbor on on third which is directly behind us she testified in favor of our change in the Redevelopment plan that's a matter of public record at at the hearings that we attended um we have a very good working relationship with her and we have agreed that if there is any screening that that screening because it will be a a space will take up from Third Avenue to our bar um we will uh we'll make it nice for her she's moving down from some set she's going to be here year round she wants to have good neighbors thank you motion to close uh public comment I know it Cann thank you okay all right can I um I'd like to make a motion to uh to approve this application uh with those three items that we had spoken about second you're on right sorter okay James banao yes Council Clayton yes Eric Gallo yes Jim Henry yes Daniel shano yes Vice chair G yes and barber chairman chairwoman barbar thank yes U just one thing I'd like to really thank you for all the work that you do with the Mercy Center it's a phenomenal organization and the amount of people that you serve blows me away it really blows me away last year 95,000 people went through that fac two years before that it was 2400 and the variance was given in 1999 and that was the problem the variance dies when we take down all the properties yeah I get yeah thank you right do we want to take a five minute break before we go into executive session thank five minutes thank you and I will now take roll call James Bano councilwoman Clayton yes Eric galfo yes Jim Henry yes Daniel shano here Vice chair goonan here chair woman Barbara KAC here all right um I guess that uh Jack we have to uh vote on the resolution first to have an executive s go ahead all right all right we have a a resolution to be able to uh go into executive session can I get a motion to uh can I get a motion to approve move we' got ion and Jim and Jim okay okay all right APV we're going into executive session please got to have a vote on that oh yeah let's have a vote on this that we're going can I do an yeah goe all in favor oppos I all right APV we're going off thank you all right can I get a uh I mean I guess that we have to um um James Bano Council Clon yes Al yes Henry Sho Vice chair here chairwoman K here all right um I'd like to we're back from executive session uh I'd like to make a motion um to uh to uh approve to to appoint uh the iachan firm as the uh engineering firm for 2024 for the planning board Michael second okay and we go James B yes councilwoman Clayton yes ER Al yes Jim Henry yes Daniel sh yes Vice chair yes chairwoman yes uh I'd also like if we could um to go forward with a resolution we just have to fill in the blanks we just have to fill in the blanks blank blanks a I have it on sakian Incorporated I have it here if you need it what the name of the firm is okay so okay I have it ready to go so did you you have a copy I don't I have a copy of the name of the firm what do you your resolution oh the resolution here so you just have to fill in all the blanks Leon yes it's Leon s avakian Inc and in conjunction with compensation four what goes in number two jackc sh purs to the ordinances Etc Bill and then the appointment of them and number four is their name again okay the only thing is when they do a contract I need to see it before make sure it's consistent okay um and I will start with James banana yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric gbo yes Jim Henry yes Daniel shano yes Vice chair G yes chairwoman C yes um just so that all of you also know is that uh the transition between insight and a vakin and working with tnm also as a conflict uh there are about 35 projects that are in flight so we have to figure out along with Michelle Alonzo how are we going to bring these to fruition and keep up with the new work so it's going to be um we're going to have to work on that for the next probably about two weeks to figure out the plan and how to do that all right sorry and Beth Beth's a planner on some of our projects and Beth is a plan on some of our projects all right uh can I get a motion to adjourn favor