##VIDEO ID:rOufEA1E1Xk## um good evening everyone welcome tonight is uh a regular meeting of the planning board Monday November 18th 2024 chairwoman can you please call this meeting to order yes this meeting is being held in compliance with the open Public's meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the the coaster and Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on the municipal building board and the municipal website all notices are on file with the board secretary official action may be taken on the following matters before the board this meeting is being recorded by APV will you join me to swoop the flag flag the United States of America stands jce I will now take roll call James Bano councilwoman Clayton is absent this evening Eric galipo here Jim Henry here Jeremy Hoffman pres mayor Moore here Daniel shano here Jen saer here Vice chair goonan here and chairwoman Barbara KAC here um uh I just want to make note that we have been able to receive a few more microphones so that anybody watching on APV should get a better uh hearing uh a little bit better from our professionals so if our professionals could also speak into them that would be helpful and all of us also because if any of you have ever listened to some of these recordings you'll know why okay and I would like to thank Nate from APV for helping us out to do that uh and uh we have a resolution uh first item up is a resolution uh for uh 12 um 10 Springwood Avenue yeah madam CH there's one change on that uh do you have that Marie yes I do um the correction is to paragraph three on page two the first part of the sentence is correct with respect to the two units however the affordability restrictions for the remaining units are per the federal HUD as the grant money for them comes through County not state so we'll make that quick edit yeah all right can um anybody else all right can I get a motion to uh so the eligible members are Mike goonan Daniel shano mayor Moore James Bano Jim Henry and Eric gallipo right can I get a motion to U pass so moved second okay we have um James Bano yes Eric alipo yes Jim Henry yes mayor Moore yes Daniel shano yes and vice chair Gan yes uh the next one we have is the resolution for approval for the Delta townhouse development members are James Bano uh yvon Clayton who's absent Eric alibo Jim Henry John Moore Jennifer saer Mike goonan and Barbara kurac um so all right can I get a move can I get a motion to uh to pass the resolution so moved I'll [Music] second James Bano yes Eric alipo yes Jim Henry yes mayor Moore yes J saer yes Vice chair gonan yes and chairwoman KAC yes great thank you uh the next uh item up is uh 711 bangs Avenue yeah Madam chairwoman I um reviewed the notices there in proper for okay we have jurisdiction to [Music] proceed good evening I may Andrew Carris on behalf the applicant 725 LLC we're good with all the notices yes all set um just a little bit of an overview of what we're here for tonight the project is with regard to property at 7-Eleven Banks AB block 25506 lot six it's in the CBD Redevelopment area in the mixed use District it's a relatively small project the site itself is only 3,667 Square ft measuring about 37 ft the front about 100 ft deep what is being proposed is essentially a residential building six apartment units within the building meets the height criteria for the area the variance that is required were proposed and six parking spaces whereas eight are required after giving EV credit I have a few Witnesses I'll be calling tonight first I'll have our engineer Dr Galvis will be testifying architect Dan Kor and then also the traffic expert having to do with how the car is going to maneuver within pargan area that is being proposed within the building that being said bne okay def please raise your right hand soly swear firm testimony about the good this matter the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name for the record and spell it Daphne Galvin d a p h n e g a l v i n why don't I swear in my staff so please do right swear for Testimony about to given this m will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I I do you please State your names for the record and your affiliation with the board Donna Miller board plan Sam aak and board engineer okay floor is yours Captain can you please give the board the benefit of your qualifications sure I have a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering from Lafayette College I also have a graduate certificate in project management from NJIT I obtained my professional engineering license in New Jersey in 1989 so I have over 40 years of experience in all aspects of site development including due diligence and feasibility gr design permitting and construction on various types of projects for different clients and you testify before the report on numerous I may offer as an expert in civil engineering what we're going to do we have plans that are up on the board these are the plans that you have prepared a preliminar and final major site plan am I correct correct why don't we have the last revision day we're going to mark this as A1 for identification please sure this is revised through June 18th of 2024 and it's sheet four of eight set of we're going to Mark the entire set as A1 uh Council why don't we Mark also the board exhibits B1 I'm sorry um yeah board B1 it is the aacan report will the AOC and then the C report dated August 9th 2024 will be B2 M okay and the date on vum report is August 8th that is correct okay and August 9 for the CX report looking at what's been marked as A1 for identification why don't we go through what we're looking at have an overall description the site sure so this is the grading drainage and utility plan out of the set of site plans the sheet FL of8 to get everyone orientated North is generally up on the plan bangs avenue runs along the bottom of the sheet from left to right which means that Main Street would be over in this area here on the left side and bond would be over to the right on the this site uh the parcel has a street address of 7-Eleven bangs Avenue it's also known as block 2506 lot 6 uh it contains only 300 3,667 Square ft which is 800s of an acre and it's located in the CBD mixed use District of the central business district Redevelopment plan area uh bangs Avenue has a RightWay width of 75 ft that allows for two-way traffic it also has parking and sidewalks on both sides um the surrounding area is a mix of uses including both commercial and residential uh the existing site is actually previously developed um but is now vacant uh it's mostly grass with some small areas of walkways and cavers uh there's an existing driveway along the Westerly end of the site um Along on bangs Avenue just move on to the propos yeah let's go on to what we are proposing for the site sure so the the any of the existing site Improvement uh such as the sidewalks and the cavers that's all going to be demolished and a new four-story residential building will be constructed including parking on the ground level uh there'll be further discussion about the building itself by the project architect the structure will cover the entire lot which is allowed by the Redevelopment plan from a zoning perspective the structur self comp IES with um all the bulk standards but there but a variance is required because it doesn't provide for the commercial use on the ground level uh the existing driveway along the west side of the property will be partially reconstructed to accommodate the new access into the site into the um into the uh ground level parking um there's a total of six parking spaces proposed including one accessible space in the garage um based on the ordinance standard nine spaces would have been proposed but because we provided also an EV space that requirement drops down to eight so we've got six proposed where eight are required uh the applicant agrees to make a contribution for the two deficient spaces um traffic engineer will provide testimony regarding the parking layout and circulation within the building from a storm water management standpoint the project is classified as a minor development as proposes in excess of 1,000 square ft of increas in impervious coverage uh so we have to comply with section 30- 58.7 L 71 of the city uh storm water Control Ordinance so to comply we're actually proposing a green roof area on the upper on the upper roof um as requested um in Mr ain's review letter we will also submit a uh an operations and maintenance manual for that green move area Frontage improvements along Ong bangs Avenue include a new sidewalk and that partially reconstructed driveway apron Street trees aren't currently proposed uh due to the Narrow Street Frontage um and all the utilities that are out here but we'd be willing to um work with Donna to see if we can squeeze a tree in there and if we can't get a tree to fit maybe we can add a a bench or something along those racks or a bike rack bench bike rack whatever um whatever the board would prefer if we can't get the tree in um there are no um there's no Street lighting proposed although there is Lighting on the building which the architect will talk about I'll note that there is an existing street light directly across bangs Avenue from the site Cobra street light there's also Cobra if we're looking at the site to the West a little bit correct correct I'd say uh maybe 50 60 ft to the West right over in here um there's uh signage proposed on the building again that will be uh discussed by the architect Tech and then we're also planning to provide new Utility Services uh to the building water silver electric Etc and we will submit uh we'll serve letter requests and forward those to Mr aak you want talk the review letter what I want to do is first let's take a look at what's been marked as B1 for identification you've had a chance to review the letter from vacum that's dated August 8th 2024 am I correct yes that's correct going to the second page the letter want to hit number five review provide information with regard to location s loading space will requested am I correct can you just speak up a little bit please I'm sorry I'm not speaking into the mic and you have all these new mics here um with regard to number five we are requesting a waiver relative to the uh loading spaces or dots am I correct correct because there's none required so all right um number six asking for information or a waiver relative to proposed plant material and any Landscaping there's going to be no Landscaping on the site and that building is taken up the entire site am I correct correct and if we add the street tree We'll add the necessary details have that time going continuing on to number seven um ask for location of any public space or private spaces and again W's request there is no private or public space open space in this application am I correct correct number eight a phasing plan the project will not be phased am I correct correct continuing on WE note number nine on the next page page three of variance because there's no commercial EDS being proposed and the reason being in order to provide parking on the site there's no way to fit in any commercial type of on the side am I correct correct and that's on the first floor correct right okay going down to number 11 you've already addressed this you'll provide an operation maintenance manual for the green roof am I correct yes and number 12 again um maintenance PL will be filed with the clerk am I correct yes continuing on number 25 if you don't mind I'll just we still do uh so just the wards where what the applicant is trying to do or proposing is a green roof system which does meet New Jersey BMP standards for quantity quality recharge uh but you did skip over to the ones I had my main question uh access these are through private residences so how would they be accessed theor architect going tou it and no worries yeah I just want to make sure and uh I just want uh is it going to be irrigated or who will be in charge of uh who's going to maintain the building we'll have super yeah thank you you continuing [Applause] on most of this has to do with the AR I'm sorry the architect not the engineering testimony I think we've covered all the engineering Tes if you don't mind then just tell me Dy tell me if I'm wrong if you'd like the traffic to talk about this um but one of our problems too we think that our office actually thinks that there's a problem at the End by the staircase if ballards or something as such can be added just in case architect understood y thank you um um and it might also be the architect then but The Pedestrian warning sign in the event architect wonderful thank you get them all that should probably be that I I just want to note like the iak and letter we're missing I am missing and I think Jeremy is to Pages five and six can we uh to make some copies mine mine go mine go you don't have it either 47 okay so we need three copies who else Jer five five and six looks like three copies anybody else need it it okay we need three copies please and I might be striking out but one more I don't want to jump ahead you is there was a ref to the utility pole in the back being moved is that going to be moved on site is it going to be relocated is it's going to be coordinated with the utility company and whatever they have to do we have to do have to take coord and as far as the comments in B2 which is the CCH report all those have to do with the architect anything having to do with the engineering I believe we have covered am correct um for the most part I mean the traffic gu probably I just want to apologize I'm looking at our report and um is this this is on page six I think there's a formatting error it's section four I'm not exactly sure what happened here but um the numbering and the paragraph are broken but think we can make sense it says that's fine um so I'm sorry I didn't hear if Mr Caris had something or you had something that about the report cuz I didn't my understanding is that we've covered all that's in here as it pertains to the engineering if there's anything else you can let us know well so I I'm not sure if you're going to have someone else address um our comment number four with the lot encroachment um Miss Galvin you know gave a brief you know overview of the existing property but uh the neighbor to the west has a structure appears to encroach on your lot your plan of development appears to also coincide with those encroachments I think it's a little hard for us to understand who's going to speak to other things well what I can do if talking about the site encroachments I can talk about if there are a lot of encroachments then if they impact development of the site we'll have to work that out the jent landowner they're going to have to remove those encroachments as it impacts Upon Our who's encroaching on upon whom there are utilities that are on the side of the building that go and cross that border onto our building those going to have to be moved I'm they down there they encroaching on to your property they're encroaching onto yours okay so that that's a that's a matter between us and the neighboring property but certainly if there's an encroachment by that neighbor then we'll have to remove that encouragment we've had conversations with the neighboring property my client when he went over to the property and they were amicable conversations I don't anticipate there will be any issues in terms dealing with this right as as I read uh Donna's report the encroachment includes window frames correct Donna well exist have to seal they'll have to seal them correct yeah who who Who's sealing the windows would be up to the adjacent property own prior to their property heard there um take me hang on a second so on sheet I don't know if you want to jump there the existing conditions is that cheap too yep yeah she too so there's a possibly a building Eve the gas meters and then just at ground level it looks like there's a like a concrete walkway that and a window well in the back that actually encroach uh to the subject property um so Mr Caris you're saying that you're going to work with that property owner to yeah that that's a matter we'll work with them to deal with those encroachments that's a matter of dealing with the neighbor so so I'm sorry on this layout I really can't tell is is this property 100% filled so there is no distance between the west building or the East Building there's nothing no inches nothing correct uh um I don't I don't because I can't tell from this layout yeah so I'm just zooming in on it a little bit I don't know if you can see it better on the screen as I zoom in so this is up near the um northwesterly Corner this would be the northwesterly corner right here okay so here's a window and obviously the property line black line so there's a window well shown right here that extends over the property line onto the subject property so that's an encroachment of the window well and these are actually the dimensions boards so it's 6/10 of a foot over the line okay onto our property and then as you continue South along that property line there's also gas meters I think these are they're attached to the building but they extend over the line they don't not a dimension provider for it but they extend over the line and then if you keep going down there's there's a reference here to a building Eve overhang on the roof Eve of the roof um that is does not extend over the line um it's 4/10 of a foot to the west of the line so there's not an encroachment of the building Eve that's with the dimension in the arrow stamp for and then as you continue down there's a reference here to the building itself also not encroaching over the property line it's 8/10 of a foot to the west of the property l l so there's no encroachment of the building at that location and then if you keep going down headed towards uh bangs keeps going keeps going the reference to a roof drain like discharges that grve and then all the way to the front corner I think yeah so at this front corner again this is the RightWay line for bangs Avenue so at this front corner the eve of the the roof of the existing building does extend over the proper line by 2/10 of the foot so those are the encroachments now when you're saying the building e are you saying that that's that's the roof the roof gutter on the roof the roof extends slightly Beyond the Wall of the building it comes down extends a little bit beyond so in this case uh or actually in both cases um the total Dimension between the wall of the building and the end of the Eve is 8/10 of a foot so in this location 2/10 of it extends over the property line and 6/10 of it is within the property so the encroachment there is only 21 of the foot so in these so in this case just because I don't know what happens to like gutters leaders that that's encroach like what happens to them who who does what I don't know where they go yeah where do they go they better not go to Wesley Lake I'm just saying pretty much everything goes into W well I'm saying that that what what if he gets disconnected I mean what happens we don't control the adjon property we have a site that we can develop we have the right to develop now in terms of what can happen in terms of their drainage what they're doing with it where their drainage goes I can't say we didn't study their drainage I don't know where it goes but so who does in a situation like this cuz I have no idea who deals with that because if your project is here I get it these are not your issues we don't deal with their drous property who deals to deal with that all right but but then so the city so then the city has to go to that property and make sure that they did the right thing not necessarily oh well well who who knows that they did the right thing it depends on the the type of encroachment and the severity approach solution to it yeah and the solution to it so if if it's 2 in of a uh a leader drainage leader right make it smaller so they would have to make all these modifications before you even St and that's a conversation that has to be had between my client and thejason property they're where we're looking to develop the S the conversation already has started okay how long do these encroachment been uh in existence I can't say since that building was built yeah I would assume but there are no property RS it doesn't qualify to give them any property rights onto F property so we can enforce our rights but we will speak with the A and property owner and work towards a resolution with do you have position it feel it feels we prescri as well well it's not in our purview but I would think it would be in the city's purview well the city will have to decide if they're required to comply with current storm but that's still a code right because a code is it doesn't make sense to leave that leader where it is EXC we can have one conversation please it doesn't make sense to leave the leader where it is in an inaccessible location never right it's totally inaccessible and so in theory the city should say okay you got to move that leader and it's got to run here to there to there okay they have but it's out of our that that's true it is but what happens in our resolution since there can't be get got it I'm right there I'm I'm with you since uh there can't be any development until Andy and is client resolve the encroachment issues obviously all issues uh we put a condition in the resolution that they'll keep a surprised of the negotiations and what the solution is because they can't they can't start building without that right so they're going to have that's a condition of approval that they tell us what the what's going to happen and then uh we tell people within the city in the city hall they're going to have to go see those people regarding whatever drainage issues if any exist and that's the appropriate way to handle it and and what what what about on the east side because we just we just reviewed the west side yeah there's no encroachments on the east side uh hold on let me zoom in a little bit more again so here's um bangs Avenue the RightWay bangs Avenue so this note right here indicates that the existing building is to the east of the property line by 4/10 of a foot so there's no encroachment along there and then as we work our way towards the back another reference here about Midway back to the fact that that existing building is 410 to the east so no encroachment and all the way to the back corner there's the last note again 4/10 of a foot to the east of the property line so there's no encroachment by the existing building to the East and what about to the back of the property is there any room to the back of it or the South Side uh the back would be the north side back in here the north side right um so that there's actually a gap between the buildings this is the building line of the existing building in the back so there's space in here there's a fence which is the line with the circle on it that's the fence line right there but that's not is that this property fence or is that the other property's fence um I'm not sure whose fence it is so which I think based on this note here um you know what I'm not sure whose fence it is I just oh it may does it it looks like yeah if the property line yeah where's the property line where the dark is dark line is the property line okay it's on their property yeah I think that on their it's definitely on the property to the north okay so it's their property and you're going against that okay is that the harder yes back and then what about the utility poll or someone else will talk about that no we'll have to deal with the utility company and where that's going to go just so that you know where the utility pole is see it right here right that's the utility poll so it's on our property and there's overhead lines it's tough to see on here but those are the letters o as that line continues it's picking up over there and it continues to the West right along here okay and actually if you look at page six of the CCH report the photo on the bottom half of the page you can actually see that utility poll on there with all the leops on it all right I'm sorry but so I heard from someone that that the that the other building to the to the West has to all the all the windows have to get boarded up by someone is that true or what what happens yeah that's who's testifying thej proper the adjacent property owner is going to do in response to the they don't building will be a solid wall in front of their windows and I don't know might be better for the seal window well it depends on what's going on in that building if they can get out there's I mean there's all sorts of code issues that this is going to trigger this is going to trigger a lot of code issues again it's more of the architect's perview so kind of put a pin in that until all right I'm I'm willing to [Applause] wait okay engineering engineer so oh you have a separate traffic professional Cur right so someone else is going to talk about the green roof correct no the green the green roof has been discussed except for the access of the green roof okay so there's the architect testify for for the access just access what about the green wof itself who will talk to that so the yeah dapne would but the green roof does comply with the New Jersey standard green roof allows us to accommodate the storm water management standards in the City by store by providing storage volume for the roof runoff so in doing so they get their quantity their quality and they don't have recharge but they'll get that and after the green roof it'll go through an apparatus to get through the curb which then does lead to Wesley Lake so does that slow it down or what what does what does the green roof The Green Roof yeah so the green roof colle X The Green Roof X is a natural buffer between just hitting impervious areas so the green roof will collect water there will be some type of vegetation and they'll provide details if not it's a pre-fabricated material uh and then it acts as if like just grass or just low Ling vegetation so it'll take some of that water hold some of that capacity and after it gets to a certain point it will be discharged out to the road is it true that is it true that we only need like 6 in how thick is this 6 in so that's the that's the uh prefabric material is 6 in that box is 6 in yes so you have to do an inch and a quarter um well no actually in this case it's the the uh design standards for the minor development is that for every square foot of for every square foot of increase in impervious area you have to provide two gallons two gallons of storm storage okay and that's what this green roof system does it's a soil media that absorbs water so that provides the volume to meet the requirement so and this does meet the requirement so by calculations by the Numbers this meets that that is correct based on what kind of a storm 25 years 50 year 100 year two years in this case it's not no in this case it's not a storm event it's just a volume volume it's just a volume two gallons for every one square foot of imperious surface on the site that's it's just the city standard for minor development it's it's a little different than prob than a major development so it's just a totally it's a different approach so it doesn't have a storm intensity to deal with it's just a straight volume calculation that's just that's stand for miners too yeah I don't have that math unfortunate two years and again that what you're proposing in this application complies with the requirements am I correct yes I have question I don't have to like it but okay yeah I have a question generally about I I haven't seen that project this small in development zones I feel like how it fits into our our plan because uh does our plan require there to be commercial out but it also reques there is it requ that is correct commercial because you want the parking and that's the variance because VAR for the the commercial correct yeah it's a matter of choice if we're trying to get parking to alleviate any concerns and any parking on the street so you're going to have to give up some the commercial I understand I I don't feel my my opinion is that the parking on the bottom floor is completely not in line with what's around it it's not good for the area is that side I'd rather see a commercial building commercial from the bottom um I don't like that you're required to have parking I don't think that this needs parking and I just don't like the fact a garage that's my opinion I mean to your point on site parking is not technically required is required no that's why we have a contribution that's why we have shared parking that's why have all these other there's other mechanisms sure there's nothing that says you have to do it on site have to pay F so if I understand it correctly trying to call uh thread here there's a choice that we made you could either comply with the uh commercial space requirement or you could have done the parking you couldn't do both and it's a balancing Gap so the choice that you made was for the parking one could have made a choice to go for the commercial there's plenty commercial in the downtown there's not enough parking clearly not enough parking in the downtown we're going to have six Apartments here I think it's more important and it's critical we provide parking for those units as opposed to providing another commercial store to to your question though Jeremy is yes they can they can they could fulfill the requirements through the fee one of the other they yes this decision to the person I'm not but it's not only a business decision it's a decision in terms of what is best for the downtown yeah yeah I'm not definely disagreeing with I wanted understand the thought thank you and daany we our officer just suggest that in the event of approval that we would do all the concrete apron if you were going to do it and not just the saw cut down the middle yeah you want to replace the whole apron that's fine yep is that in your report sir uh no I don't believe it is yeah no issue condition and also has there has is there any other building in um in Asbury Park that has a green roof so we know how how they've been people have been maintaining it to make sure that it's still functional that there are any code requirements having to do with this thean club has they go up and maintain it twice a year right main depends on the type that's extensive and intensive and how the water flows underneath it this is semi semi-intensive this is this is the extensive one the shallower one this one's 4 in thick the Intensive one is I think a minimum of 6 in thick right and it has a membrane so the rest on it's a different rest on a leveling system where the water col just a more complex system when you needed more volume you were able to get the 4 in uh cross-section to work I thought it said semi no so wait I'm sorry um are these modules or is it the full no these are just the modules okay so they're on a leveling system and then any excess water flows out here's a am I correct what you have up on the screen exactly that that's correct this is The Green Roof System that's being proposed but does say semi-intensive cuz that's right caught my eye cuz it's 6 in which is semi oh then then I misspoke then it is a six inch section I think the six inch is right on the border between the extensive and intensive just for edification purposes looking at the evoc report the final comments the general comments 35 through 42 we're fine with all those am I correct uh yes any other questions for this I know that there was a mention of a sign will somebody else speak about this somebody else will speak about okay you may be called back because there's a lot of somebody else is speaking that's fine okay oh uh who's going to address Li uh bike parking should we do now or architect architect architect I'm going sign off [Applause] questions is that are we done we need public comment no but I would even know if we were finished I have no F question okay um any other questions from the planning board or the professionals no not I obviously we reserve the right to uh come back because of the reports there's a lot of empty there's a lot of questions unanswered in the reports and we're not sure who's going to take care of them so we reserve the right to call you back or someone that will answer our questions all right anybody uh anybody from the public here that would like to ask any questions of this witness no okay next [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] all set all set Jack we set here yes sir raise your right hand s firm testimony about to give this matter with the truth whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do please state your name for the record and spell it uh Daniel Condor c o n d a t o r e is it a t or a d c o n d a t o r okay that's I thought thank you Dan can you please give the board the benefit of your qualifications sure um I attended Roger Williams University graduated 2001 with a bachelor's degree in architecture uh I've been licensed in the state of New Jersey since 2008 um I've had my office here in asri park since uh for the last seven years 2017 is your license current license is current Madam chairwoman door has been before us so a few dozen times yes we set Dan looking at what's up on the screen I'm going to mark that as for identification can you please give us the last revision date of these points uh June 19th 2024 okay taking a look at what's been marked as A1 I'm sorry A2 for identification can you go through the plan and what has been proposed for this site sure um I think we there's been enough discussion about uh the dimensions of the site but as you know we're working on a a a very uh deep site with a little Frontage the frontage of the building is about 6 ft um what we have on the first floor here is as you enter we have a garage entry on the left we have a a garage door then there's a um we have a vestibule that empties directly to uh the street uh bang ab and we have a staircase and an elevator Lobby um and then we have our six parking spaces and then as you get to the back we have our our second means of vress in the back right corner uh and a small trash room um that encompasses the the ground floor as you go up to the residential level we have six units total two on each floor um you come up to the to the stairs we have a continuous hallway along the uh east side of the building that connects to two staircases and the entrance to the units uh the entrance to the units on the south side of the building uh have two bedrooms uh a kitchenet a nice living area um and a small balcony that fronts um that fronts the street uh in the middle of the building in order to generate light to the bedrooms and the units we've created a light well um so there is separation in between the units and then you can see here that each bedroom has a window um you know we offset the windows so you're not generally looking directly into the other person's unit um and then we have our back unit that uh also has a balcony and that recess in the balcony allows us to pull the building off of of the property line and to add light and windows and glazing into the kitchen kitchen area and the living area um since we we can't on the west side you'll notice on the plans where we're buting the uh the buildings uh we we can't by code put Windows in those walls so the the only way to generate any light into the units is on the North side and on the South Side so now those units uh repeat repeat themselves on the second floor um but then when we get to the third floor uh they change slightly uh because we are introducing a staircase that takes you to the um to the penous unit so you can see at the entry on on that rear unit um there's a staircase we still have the two bedrooms with a master um the kitchenet and the balconies that that stays the same um one of the things that is not shown on the plan that is something that we will address is the access to um uh to the green roof so what we'll do is we'll provide a a ladder and a hatch in the stairwell um because it's just a maintenance ladder so we don't need to have a full staircase continue up I don't believe there's a need for that but we provide a maintenance ladder with an access hatch can you just show it Dan where are you going to put this uh we could put that in this rear stairwell is probably the best place to put that so The Stairway To The Penthouse which appears on the third floor yep rear unit rear rear and front each have their own Penthouse stairs so then it goes to another story yes the roof it's a roof it's a penous it's a roof so it's a penthouse on the roof so it's four stories plus Penthouse yes yeah under the CBD you can do up to 12T as long as you're not more than 4% three stories plus pen house three stories well the total building is four stories four stor plus P correct three stories a residential and a parking yes yes sorry four levels plus a pound mhm okay the the air well the the light well yes that's open at the roof yes yes yes that's corre is is it open in the hallway no that I'll clarify that that was uh that will be closed so the hallway is conditioned conditioned space inside um and there's windows on that as well right so you said bangs or so you have you have light on your windows on the on the light one yes that's correct yeah so there the windows are there these are the windows for the bedrooms you're right we we'll clarify that that that wall needs to be solid there that is not open hallway and then in the the rear units are those windows in the kitchen yeah we we have a window in the kitchen and then we have the the balcony access slider yes so how are you doing that because that's on your lot line is it it they recess back so the the lot line if you look at the plant is continuous right across the rear but since we're pulling the balcony in we're allowed to have Windows no no I'm saying you see where it says the kitchen I'm not talking about the balcony oh that is that solid wall or is that a window there we have a window there but the the windows facing onto the balcony yeah the window is facing on the balcony on not out to the rear no no since it's perpendicular to the property line we're allowed to Happ okay and the sorry the wells open no it's not it stops yes I'm sorry said that there's a cover so the parking lot's not going to be ventilated up it will be no if we have to ventilate it mechanically we'll run a we will run an exhaust fan through a shaft to the roof area so there's a roof on that is is is there a roof Yeah so basically you're you're you're creating a like a p like a p you're creating a platform above the parking to which you're going to build a residential unit it's not like from the first un you could drop something paring no no no and we'll have to drain it right pitch it drain it and put a roof membrane in roof of the parking lot yes wasn't quick oh so on this what's labeled here the first floor plan that says open to below it's not open to below that's correct okay we would also definitely recommend the venting you know for the garage because I know that you have I don't want to jump out of you the the fencing in the garage it's also not wall to wall across each other if it's not open we would definitely prefer that okay thank no issue with that for for mechanical for mechanical V that won be a we still we have quite a few questions would you just go over that uh bite well that you talked about between the two units you indicated that on the uh first floor level there's a floor correct yes and at the roof level it's closed at the roof it's not closed it's open so this is just T no it it's closed on the roof of the garage but then it extends up and it's open from there all right and we so we'll see that when we get to the roof yes okay so how how how wide is that space I I can't tell 4T 4T between the two buildings yes it's what the two towers The Two Towers yes one one building and what happens to the storm water that goes in this area we we'll put an internal drain in there and it'll be connected to whatever's going on in the garage right yeah so I don't I don't remember seeing anything in the garage so where is it going to be connected to the garage there'll just be a roof drain and we'll connect it to wherever our our storm water is picked up from the roof above we'll just tie it all into one system okay we I'd like to just see it just to make sure it's it's fitting okay yeah there's a there's a picture on it might right it might help for us to see what the roof looks like to see where the water is coming from it's like is is it going directly into that 4 foot space yes correct it's going direct so there's no green roof there there's no green roof there there's no green roof there's nothing green there no it's just a roof it's going straight down straight down but we have so we a part of the green roof here's a roof plan right we're going to have internal roof trins on the main roof and there's going to they're going to connect you know off in the ceiling areas and then there's going to be chases that bring the storm water down and then that that lower roof as a part of the light well will connect to those same pipes and discharge as the regular roof does yeah and I understand that I just want to make it clear the reason I'm saying it is just in the event that it's not on the plans and there goes to construction we'll make sure app is there I understand talk about like the two c to a neighboring building that's not your property you know I'm more familiar with New York is there a do you have to be separated to have operable windows by a certain distance facing another building we can't have any Windows facing the other building well you could if you set back off if you set back off the private line yeah I think it's 3 you I know New York right it's like 30t you got to be like yeah yeah I know so what I'm saying is you only have four feet so is number one is there a regulation here like that number two is your two towers complying with that no so to your point I I know you're talking about New York City they have a light and air requirement right that you have to have in a 30 you can't have operable Windows you know closer than 30 right and but part of it has to do with their light and air requirements um this does not apply right there is no requirement these are this is essentially the same building right so the separation and now um on the property line yes when you're when you're along a property line if you have to be at least 3 fet back to have a certain percentage of Windows and then if you go 5T you get more but between zero and three you get zero okay and this was designed with that any windows on the S so you can go right up to the property yes so here uh here's a the general layout of the roof plan uh you come up the top of the stairs we have a small little Penthouse area uh we include a roof deck and then we have uh the part of the GL this is not the full green roof area um surrounding the deck so it'll be a nice little you know Green Space around a you know sitting area for the for the residents and that's the same uh a little different orientation facing the South uh with the roof you can see the the gray area is the green roof area and then the the roof deck and then in the middle is where we're including the uh mechanical units so the mechanical units are set pretty far back they're behind in between the penth houses and there's really no view of the mechanical un so the roof deck is for the penthouse units or for everybody Penthouse units only okay and that's a part of actually believe it's in the seat right we don't have Community roof decks we have to have them individual and the mean issue about public access there is no Public Access so there not not Public Access Public Access yeah main maintenance access and even to that if we could talk about it um I'm not 100% familiar with the maintenance in 10 years let's say of a green roof but in the event event that they need to get something bigger than a hatch and a ladder um how would you main how would you get something there I up there I could work with DNE and if if if the hatch I mean these are just small condensing units um there's nothing there's nothing heavy up there if it if it so be required then we would have to extend the staircase up but uh now I don't see the need to extend yeah but these air conditioning units they're not like your normal air conditioning units so we see all over town so when you're saying they're small it's kind of like a person can can carry it up a wooden ladder through a hatch I'm asking through the wooden hatch yeah that's what I'm asking well they wouldn't be able to carry a full condensing unit through it if it has to be replaced that you know they replace them what you do with a lot of buildings is if it requires a mechanical units especially you know you have big building with a big mechanical unit you cran it up right I'm just say that's a common prac these four with these smaller units yeah it would be the same it would be the same if if they replace all six units at once they would just bring a crane and in a couple hours just drop them off on top of the roof because the elevator doesn't go all the way up and then you're not going to expect somebody but you're not going to expect somebody to carry a unit all the way up the staircase they do in my town hall do they they carry it how else are they going to get it get it up so okay okay um the other question I have is about the roof deck on Penthouse B yes that roof deck seems a little close to all those units so if I have my lawn chair on deck on my roof deck I have three mechanical units buzzing in my ear is there any way to move that roof deck to be a little bit further away from those mechanical units we can we can slide the seating area back like the deck area back I really can't move the footprint of it just cuz the way the stairs are configured right like it would just it would change my concern is where the roof deck is just like my concern is on any town home that has Ro that could be moved yeah that could be moved we can we can adjust the location yeah just to adjust it a little bit so that they're further away from the because a does not have that problem yeah clearly a does not have that problem are they shielded mean you put we could screen them from on that once they don't need to be screened from the PE like the the public but one side of it the roof de yeah just for that one roof deck on there over there put a screen on one side why can't you turn that 90° turn the penthouse 90° and the deck in front of it so that it's faing for stair yeah the staircase is like it's really complicated challenging to get that staircase within the unit to maneuver up to the roof so if you start to reposition it I'll leave it the way it is yeah make it you can even make it l-shapes we can look at it to make a you know to see how the best way we can handle the you know screening it from the mechanical units and Shifting the deck around um and then finally the remainder of the green roof is actually on top of the pen houses so you have some green roof that is at the deck level then we have additional uh Roofing on the on the top so those are the the general uh plan layouts what's the square footage of the the roof house the P house uh they're like 208 Square ft so we're limited to 20% the roof area so that's kind of governs itself Unit A is 208 Square ft Unit B is 200 sare ft yeah going to A200 and you know we really have one main facade on this building everything else is abing another building or or uh you know on the east and west so what we try to do with the architecture is create you know uh a more traditional style like a a Down Town architecture with a a a strong base and then we have a a brick facade and then we we have a Cornus on on the uh on the top part um you know we provided some inlays and some accents on the window that kind of Express the verticality and you know just we didn't have a lot of facade to work with so we're trying to just add as as much detail as we can so uh the windows on the right are actually a part of the staircase um the windows on the left are within the unit and then uh we have the um uh the balconies the resell balconies where we do change the material in there to be you know stule type finish on the inside um on the ground floor we have our entrance uh with a with the storefront system and then where the staircas is on the ground floor that starts to go up we also add a St for trying to introduce as much glass as we could and into the facade um and then you have your your garage door entrance um that's overhead style door uh so what's the storefront there is no store there is no store but we're trying you know we're trying to blend it into the context of the of you know the neighborhood and and and provide light and transparency at the ground floor there is a requirement that we're asking a waiver for right you're supposed to have 70% glazing on a ground floor we can't we have a we have U you know our entrance to the garage door so we're trying to provide as much as possible so that's the lobby then is that it's in the staircase yeah Lobby in the staircase is that always lit's it good cuz now what's the deal with that being lit what do you mean well you know cuz there's always been issues like this where you had fenestration in these staircases that are lit and then they you know if they're lit at night continually you know they could allow a lot of them out to the street out to the well there there's lighting Control Systems where we can have them set to turn off at a certain time there's motion sensors so so if someone enters to stairwell that that light will turn off that's something that's easily workable to be but I think to Dan's point is that you know the the point of the standards the design standards in the CBD or we want the ground floor to be an active space we want it to look engaging we want to I would say that both the ground floor and a large percentage of the facade itself of all floors is being used for a low activity the use of circulation and the street itself is fairly continuous with retail uses at the ground floor and at least at the corner of the adjacent building to the east um and I I think it you know bangs Avenue is also not replete with driveways right you know so this is introducing something of a completely new condition on a major commercial thoroughfare of downtown and it's using the whole facade for a staircase or a third of the facade for the staircase which should in theory be devoted to active Living Spaces on the upper floors and Commercial spaces on the lower floors again it's that tradeoff that you have either you're providing parking on site I'm not sympathetic to the parking on so my my point though about the lighting was that it's not necessary that we want it always illuminated and illuminated so brightly that we see what's going on 100% of the time from outside the building correct um especially if but I think the arrang of a lot of these things are generating other Oddities of the floor plan like if the typically with a building this wide what you end up with is the bedrooms on the window walls because they require light and kitchens and bathrooms do not and therefore they usually end up at the interior of the buildings we're looking at the flip side of that and to solve that problem Mr Condor has created two towers with which has additional complications of water flowing between these two buildings and doubling your number your amount of exterior facade but I think that is generated from this need to have parking on the ground floor where I think the better use here is commercial on the ground floor that would free up Mr Condor to have a more rational floor plan that maximizes street facing and rear-facing facades for Living Spaces and interior areas of the buildings for Mechanicals wet walls structure all the stuff that doesn't require continuing on okay um couple of things yeah the we have the four scotes at the street level I mean or more of an architectural detail um architectural lighting there's not a huge source of light from there we're not using it to generate any kind of necessary light for for the um for the for you know the sidewalk area uh we can provide further information generally speaking the balconies the roof of the balconies we would have a a small Light Within in those like a down light uh for the balcony areas that that's something that we would consider but other than that we wouldn't propose any other additional lighting to the building facade and there is a straight light directly across the street light correct yes that's correct um there no re yard requirement no yeah you can do Max 100% on this here zero side yard zero front yard and zero rear yard down see and so these these large windows that look into the staircase on the ground level what are we looking at are we looking at like a concrete emergency stair or is it like an ornamental stair what I mean it would be wood it would be wood frame construction which we' be allowed to do here um you wouldn't really see much through it you would see the staircase we would um Elevate the architecture of the railing to be above what is a traditional guard rail and hand rail um I mean you know you're trying to enhance the facade um to create a rhythm to the building um the function of the location of the staircase is very difficult to achieve based on you know the layout so we need to have two means of erress from this building they need to be separated at each end of the hallway so these are the the the the kid ofarts to this level of residential if you didn't have parking would it be easier mhm I mean I it's tough I mean there's a lot of different things you could do St would really be ideal I would never I wouldn't be because of the height and the amount of units we wouldn't be able to do a single staircase you could have one stair on the south on the East wall and one stair on the West Wall yeah I mean there's I haven't studied the project like that cuz that we we've always that's not what I have we've been working with parking um so I will like I will suggest that a better plan from from the perspective of consistency with the the neighborhood the intention of the the commercial the CBD plan and just the outcome of the layout will be better no I disagree I mean if you go to if you go you're welcome to disagree I think from from the perspective of the CB CBD plan we have to choose between ground floor retail or parking and that's fine well not just retail right ground floor uses commercial uses commercial uses but I mean parking is such a major issue that has not been addressed in the downtown unfortunately and we are desperately in need of parking to piggy back off we finish yeah to piggy back off of Eric that's great planning testimony and their engine is going to come so if there's great playing testimony and I also have a problem with all the uh maneuverability and everything that internally if it could be parking yeah if it could be polished it it's supposed to be a downtown Commercial Street um Dan could you speak a little bit to um again let's just go back to why you're here so you've done this uh design on the side what have you got on the rear uh the rear is I mean we're just going to uh you we're going to bring the corners around but we were going to stuckle the rear facade and the sides the best mean one side you can't even do anything to it because you're abing another building so there is no space to put a finish you're just putting an adjacent wall um but whatever is exposed on the rear and the size would be a stucco finish so so the rear is there there's there doors and a lot of blank blank space yeah so the rear is we have we have the recess B bonies right that you see that's that's these right and then this is abing the property line so it's just a solid wall the only light into that apartment because potentially the neighbor to the north might redevelop and he'd be allowed to build to the property line as well yes so if they built that a lot to the north if they built to the property line these balconies and these windows would lose all of their light and air no the balcony is INS set like you said it's 5 ft off the property line that is his light well but but the first and second floors but if if a building got built there then the first and second floors would no longer have it's like an old little tenament that's good they would would be completely cut off and there's no light at all into that Miri on the light well is the amount of light that would come through the light well would Buri during the course of day because of the movement of the sun right so Bas the angle so have you done an analysis of how much light is actually getting we've done n no formal analysis now they strike me that one time day maybe it's good but for most most of the day it's pretty limited I mean 4 you're going to be in sh there'll be shade and Shadow yes uh but I mean the ambient you're still generating you're not getting direct sunlight but you are generating ambient light I mean the ambient light doesn't go away in terms of the signage signage I want to talk building facade some more so um do you have a color rendering at all yeah I do I do because there's something I had some questions about the color scheme and the actual materials here we go do you want to ask question do you want me I mean we basically have you know red brick brick and then we have a a little change in tone in between the windows The Head and the sill we're you know doing Herring bone pattern uh with the with the black windows we have a soldier course at the head and the sill um you know is it red that's going to be sort of complimentary to the the building yes yes um and then you know a charcoal type color we don't to go black like the charcoal the with the with the red and having the stucco on the inside at the the balconies with a you know cable railing that matches um and the garage door is going to be um the glass yeah similar to yeah so frosted or GL where glass wear it says aluminum so aluminum with with the glass panels so like the glass panels are going to be be frosted they're going to be frosted and will it always be closed cuz other places they remain open I don't I an operations that's an operations thing but other buildings they remain open and the lights are glaring outside of the garage okay in downtown okay all right so but frosted but still they're going to be frosted with aluminum frame MH so so did we decide that that where the stairwell is on the on the ground level now where the stairwell is that's going to be frosted as well or is that going to be able to look right through you'll be able to look into that yes that'll be clear glass and we'll take care of all of the windows going up the stairwell so that that those lights are not glaring into the street like they do in other buildings well have to have some level of you know I'll have to look into Shield shielded down that's I'm not asking them to be off I'm just saying that when you're looking at the building I don't want to see they're they're not pointing out they're FL they have to be shielded downwards and who's going to speak about the signage we're just about the sign signage we'll comply with the sign you're going to reduce that size just going to add to 7-Eleven reduce it so it complies yes that's correct so the sign will comply as far as the garage doors in terms of safety you're going to have a safety provision or warning from uh when that door opens agress engress the uh yeah that's correct bike racks are there going to be any bike we are going to add bike racks in the garage area and I can bring that up we talked about that so we have this rear wall area uh by the trash room so we'll be able to provide um wall mounted bike racks to hang the bikes on on the system now talking about the trash room you have 50 square ft for a trash room is that sufficient for this build if the way we plan on managing it uh with a management person to bring the trash out uh for City pickup on a a weekly basis we believe it's sufficient right but is in the requirement four weeks is that the city requirement four weeks um I believe yeah it's four weeks four weeks so we can't well that's sort of the minimum if they're going to do it more frequently I'm just saying I'm just saying what the city requirement is whatever it is minum if you're going to do it more frequently that's actually better no it is better but I'm saying that will it how it I mean is it the right is it size appropriately that's all on your experience is that sufficient to deal with the garbage both Recycling and the regul I believe it's sufficient if the when the trash is taking out on a weekly basis okay so does that mean that in our do we have to put something in that says in in in the resolution that says we accept the fact that they're going to take out the garbage once a week yes as opposed to it's not going to go is it a variance that they're not going to do for four weeks well it's not necessarily a variance I don't know what it is it's a design exception but we can put in trashes can be taken in and out once weekly and the recycling and we can decide if we want that design exception and you add the you'll add the bike racks yeah the bike Des M do you know how many you think you'll be able to fit in there uh well probably six bikes one per unit would be sufficient okay and you'll go over the lighting plan in the garage or the the idea is that the lighting in the garage would not spill beyond the property line that would be the design okay will it spill once the garage is open meaning let me be specific on that wall on the northmost wall will there be a light that faces the garage door so when the garage door opens or is left open that there's not a glaring light coming out onto the street all all lights in the garage will be down down L yes okay they're not in others I'm just asking yeah no no okay they will all be down lit all down that's fine in terms of the meters where the utility Stones go um so we're so coordinating that that's a a little bit um on on the inside wall here uh where this handicap space is there's a spot to put the meters that do not obstruct the uh operation of the handicap space and then we also have other wall space in the rear next to this stairwell um we prefer if we can fit them on the front wall depending on utility company we prefer to put it up front just because of a run that we would have to run for the service to bring it back that part to the rear of the building um but typically from the pole in the back if the pole in the back is where we're pulling the power from then we would put them here so it's really we have two locations but with until we coordinate with the utility company we don't have any gas where it's all electric uh for the project so we won't require any gas meters what about the mailboxes where are they mailboxes will will find a home for them in the vestibule area and then I have a question about the garage so the Western Wall of the garage I mean my understanding is it's not a wall it's it's a fence why don't we do this Mr sack is going to come up here I think we maybe able Short Circuit the conversation about the garage right quickly oh we have to we can recall the witness let's recall the witness continue questioning because perhaps what Mr SackMan has to say might uh expedite things correct yeah yeah we're you're subject to recall you're not okay have Carter no not yet not yet yeah I know let's get Let's Get Carter up and yeah see where we're going and what we're going to do quter please raise your right hand s s affirm testimony about to give this matter be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name for the record and spell it Carter SackMan c r t r thank you okay Andy SackMan Mr SackMan what is your affiliation with 725 Madison LLC I'm a principal of the owning entity and you have authority to speak on behalf of the company my yes all right the parking on the for you've heard the comments from the board with regard to whether it should be commercial or it should be parking you understand there need to be a variance to left in the park and have no commercial you want to address that I do um I I did want to get it feedback from more members the board maybe it was a mistake made by ownership I think you know I ideally I mean we'd love to have enough parking at CBD but it's it's a strange situations that currently exist there's a parking garage directly to the east of us there's one in the building I have across the street in 700 bangs there's a state deck we know down on bangs so there's a parking lot that I have at 607 there's a lot of parking there actually are a lot of Road cuts on bangs Avenue and I'm very much aware of some of the issues and the demand for parking in the CBD that hopefully can get worked out in the future but with specifics to this building if the board would prefer commercial I'll go back to the drawing board I will provide commercial I think Eric I I agreed kind of with a couple of his comments he gives it a little more flexibility in design um and what we could potentially do with accessing space I think the Upper Floor layouts with the exception of maybe stair locations you know you know there not as much I think I can probably set the back of the building back a little um but I think there is certain flexibility with commercial on the ground floor so I I didn't want to like I think I came to tonight thinking the board would prefer parking and I just so maybe that was a mistake ownership made so I kind of wanted to get an idea rather than going back and redesigning everything if that's something that other board members shares with I think I heard James and Eric convey if that's the case I'd be more than happy to go back and look at switching out for commercial space thank thank you Carter that's very generous of you to even entertain such a thing and I will say for my from my perspective introducing another driveway onto what is I mean if you look up and down the street there are small commercial units left and right if this was a 50 foot or 60 foot or 70 foot wide sight I think we'd have more latitude here I think this is one of those cases where it's one or the other you we can't do both obviously um and I think the better solution here is to keep consistency along that entire block front where there are small retail commercial pardon me I just sort of use the same interchangeably commercial spaces along that ground and that the parking is dealt with somewhere else in this particular case now that's my feeling about it I do think it will free up Mr Condor to make a more efficient and cost effective building for you too with your wet walls smacked up against each other in the middle of the building you'll be able to set the rear Apartments back from the property line a little bit you'll have a lot more flexibility on the design and to create a better residential product internally that's just my that's my opinion um and I I my preference here I think is not to put another curve cut on a busy you know there's a lot of people walking back and forth if we can get a ensus because if that's the case and the board prefers to have commercial um as an entire board then we'll go back and redesign this building to allow for it I I think I'd have to know all the ramifications does that mean now you're paying into eight parking spots into a fund we'd have to pay into for eight parking space no it's eight because we get again EV credit we would yeah but you don't no E Credit if you don't provide parking so you'd have nine so that's that's you know that that's something you have to like Andy like you said there's a lot of empty commercial space right now in the CPD and there's not enough parking so it's your money if you want to pay for nine spots it's your decision but it's the quality I'm here theard because bus District matters too not just whether or not there's parking you there's many of the retail spaces that are vacant are b class or C-Class retail spaces in existing buildings you have the opportunity to create a better class of small retail that might attract a different type of tenant and you know that this is new retail space the the space that is vacon is old and most of it not all of it but you know well listen the biggest problem we have in the CBD that I hear consistently between small businesses is parking it's it's it's actually driven away a lot of business the the engineering report or panel experts had raised in in the written report real concerns about the viability of the parking and the layout of the parking in the building so this isn't a conversation about the ideal world of parking versus uh commercial space I think this is a conversation about the reality of the paring layout in that building we not have that conversation you came up and I'm not suggesting we have to have that conversation but uh the parking seems to rais there a number of cons questions about the flow that yeah and this is for six parking spes this is a larger building parking provided I understand garage space I don't oh I I don't think the residential doesn't bother me the way it's managed because there's well the management is probably managed properly but you know right now there's parking that's required off Street on a one and a half ratio which is more than enough for the part the number of residential units you the problem is servicing the retail occupants in the CBD that's where the problem really exists so look I'm I've been here for 24 years in this town I'm always a willing partner to try and look at the greater problem for this specific site again maybe it was a mistake with ownership thinking that the board would prefer to see that I'm more than happy to go back redesign provide commercial I I prefer to do it ultimately in the long run for a variety of reasons um but I just want to make sure that you know I get some feedback from the board so that I'm not I don't come back and they I got the other half of the board saying we'd prefer to see parking I think it makes it better downtown well i' look at it in in in after reading the reports that we've received about the parking it's to say the least but we haven't heard about what be and whatever it's not you know that we are not going to have someone backing out onto Banks that's not that's not a reality that's not a solution in my mind that is not a solution should not be permitted not being right not being permitted having that come out but I don't have the vision like maybe some of the other people have here is to okay so let's say if we do like suggests to have commercial retail on the first floor what does that do for the rest of the building because I'm still looking at the potential of the W the the north apartments or units potentially someday not having any light I can set those back I I just mentioned have a little flexibility of setting the rear property the two towers together right putting the Gap put the gap on put all the parking on the ground floor building's footprint doesn't have to be all the way to the so there's there's still all right so you're saying that that that middle piece is not going to exist no that probably would set the rear unit back I'd probably still keep some additional light in the middle um yeah but the middle I I could reorient the stairwells and and get a more efficiency um I'm going to have to provide an egress Hall on the on the ground floor right out through to the front so I have to address that which would probably mean I'm going to have to manipulate elevator location but there's thing listen there's certainly more things I can do it's a redesign yeah it's a redesign there's more things I can do I I just want to if if if I can get kind of like a an idea from the board parking or commercial that's really what I'm looking for and then I'll go back to the drawing board if it's commercial I agree with Eric so I'd like to see commercial set Donna and I were just discussing Donna has a suggestion we've done I was going to bring it up before we've recommended that applicants visit the DRC these issues I can't hear both some go to the DRC I mean it maybe a little preliminary to schedule one you have to let's let's get a redesign but let's get a consensus first this is less about design this is more of like a it's a black or white thing you're doing one or the other you can't do both so there's not design flexibility it's either parking or commercial not there's no mass s and you have to make a choice you have to make a choice and that's what I want to know have you it's I mean I understand the plan does not have a standard for a minimum lot size right but have you talked to the neighbors about consolidating doing a larger project like The Neighbor Next Door is not so great old building that is on your property would give you twice the area to work in yeah I'm not going to speculate tell the guy to go spend $2 million buy conversations we had even but it's but I I don't think it's an unreasonable thing for that that they're asking is to say what does what do the board members think sure we've done this that's not that's not an unusual and there's no problem with that especially since like sorry Dan go ahead especially since Barbera said like the parking was a little bit wonky anyway wonky we didn't even get there yet and we were going to the prod they say you can't do it so but again it's your money so if you have to pay nine spots into the parking fund instead of two that's on you I still think it's a but we'll get to do what I still think it's a with the EV credit but we'll get to that Eevee Credit in the street and Eevee charger in the street okay what whatever whatever the number it's more than two it's more than the two your worldend it's a fair it's give the man give the man some direction I I think it's fair and and uh the the time is running short for this evening so I think that it's fair for us to to ask what the board members I think the majority expressed the opinion that they'd rather see commercial that's not what they designed I think commercial will leave us with with a better building and a better downtown for the D for for the long term active commercial uses and yeah I think I'm not good at math but I counted four or five people already saying and I'm not one of them so don't worry about me but I've counted five other ones say theyd like the commercial so I mean I can be clear that I I would like I I I would only choose commercial because I think the parking is so wonky that you're not going to be backing into bangs Avenue right you're not going to be backing I think theity had a process that weite this we seem to be stuck whether this defense or not so show of hands do a show of hands just to what do you think about the commercial versus the parking having commercial space you can call on people I mean what like we can call them we can call people go down the line let's go down the line coming close yet let's go down the one you know well how do we feel let's let's let's do it come on you know I feel definitely prefer to see commercial even before I came here today Michael yeah I I agree with everything Andy said about the need for parking downtown but in this case all of the problems with this building come from that parking and by taking the parking away and adding commercial you can add more light you can yes yeah you can fix the the the frontage and the facade and have a more active facade so I'm for commercial three I'm I am I'm not for commercial but I have to be because I think the parking is so wonky that it won't work anyway so we're going to end up in commercial anyway so that's the only reason why I would go there not for any other reason Henry yeah I think we ought to go with the commercial same reason Barbara said I'd rather have the parking I think once we got there with your expert it was going to be shot to hell right it just wasn't going to work so if this is the next best way out it's the next best way out sorry you got to pay more money into the park P that's okay we'll accepted this count I'm a yes I'm a yes seven all the for commercial eight n commercial told you I could count nine out of nine can we get a new date yeah February um Marie has the dates that are how how quick can you rraw all this well it would have to be how quick and then we have to do new report what are you thinking about a DRC need to go them or you want do this it's your choice I don't want to go to DRC okay we do commercial we'll come right back all right so so no DRC meeting so right now revise the application please look at your notices first please no to Toth rate yeah but the we wait second just a second is it just a reor or do we have something else and the parking isking just all right all right let's see what the all right here's the question we have two options um assuming that we would have enough time to do the reports let's just say that that you'd have everything together and then we have the reports we have the the 27th of January which is the same day we do the reor okay so then you won't get you know the full three hours we'll have you know it takes some time for us to do a reorder the next day which is very close to that which is the 3rd of February oh third February so it's like only few days then you have what we can do is we can hold the full three hours for you does that does that work Mar yeah why don't we do that work we need everything last could of December okay okay so and you might have to Ren notice depending upon what you have you might not have to yeah we'll talk about that once and you wave any time constraints under the ml until we'll wave so any time constraints we all right so can I get a uh motion a motion to move this uh to carry this meet this to February 3rd uh the the notice will be as questionable at this point to the members of the public who are here if there are no new variances or design exceptions created there'll be no new not there is no public well but but wait a second can I just specify here because a lot of the variances and design waivers have to do with parking that's correct soin if they're eliminated there will be no requirement if something comes out of the woodwork that a new notice that a variance is coming after Donna looks at it then there'll be a notification okay move it second okay Barb okay James Bano all right thank you James Bano Eric Alo yes Jim Henry yes Jeremy Hoffman yes mayor Moore Daniel shano Jen saer yes Vice chair goonan and chairwoman C yes okay we have a a motion to uh for five minute recess so moved oh good hello everyone um I will take roll call um James Bano here Eric galipo is recused from the uh next application Jim Henry here Jeremy hofman here mayor Moore here Daniel shano here Den saer here Vice chair gonan here and chairwoman kach here [Music] I've reviewed the notices based on what I've seen we have jurisdiction to hear the matter prop form notices are in good shape great okay um I know we have a sit some of a hybrid situation here we have three members perhaps or four of the original members that approved this however the planning department has taken a position it's a new application uh I've spoken to the applicat attorney he does not object to any new members hearing this portion of it course it doesn't appear unless it gets really convoluted and you're you're you're confused and in that case I'll deal with that when and if it arises but for right now I assume that is proper characterization you don't mind is everyone participating agreed okay okay your show hi everyone uh good to see everybody again Steve Goen from gonell howerin and CA representing the applicant Jamal's National Guard Armory LLC um so I have with me here Dan Condor who you know our architect and also Paul milstein who's the director of development for Douglas development um he's here um on behalf of the applicant as well and I'm going to swear both of them in at the outset because I think there might be some discussion that both of them are going to weigh in on if that's okay let's see how that goes that can turn into a fias well we'll we'll see I'm going to start with Dan but Paul May I'll swear them both in start with Dan and then if we have to jump in because I'm going to swear and my staff too yep we'll see how it all works all right please raise your right hands you Solly swear affirm the testimony about the giv this matter truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do I do okay please State your names for the record and spell them uh Daniel Condor c o n d a t o r e thank you Paul milstein m i l l s t i n that was Paul correct yes thank thank you okay oh let's St please raise your right hand Sol s affirm testimony about the given this matter it is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do okay please State your names for the record and your affiliation with the board Don Miller board planner Samuel aak and board okay now I think we're we're good to go good so we'll start with uh Dan if you could give the board your professional qualifications uh Dan Condor registered architect state New Jersey no we good good enough we he's he's back has changed nothing has changed since the last application um so Dan why don't we uh first why don't you give the board a little bit of the status update with where we're at with this project and why we're here tonight okay um so if you recall the project last uh August is when we received our initial planning board approval to build the 24 units with adding a a third floor uh to the existing building um that was in August in uh December we started our resolution compliance process um but before that even going back a couple years we've already had interior permits to do some structural work so we had an ongoing structural permit that we're using we you know reinforced the floor slabs and um you know we're moving along internally uh during the process while we went through our planning board we've got our planning board and went through res resolution compliance um during the resolution compliance part we had we had a Shoring permit uh to shore the exterior walls um and start to you know demo uh some of the existing structure um so during that process uh you know we started to take out the the roof trusses and things like that and uh Paul and and his team will make routine site visits and look at the plans and U make sure that everything is going that they the way they wanted to um and then in June we got our resolution Appliance well sometime you know in that that June or area and then uh we were taking out the trusses and we were walking the site we're seeing the trusses once everything's exposed uh the Douglas Jamal the owner of the building uh you know generally walks through on the weekends with us and and observes everything and had a great idea saying why are we getting rid of these trusses these you know RW iron trusses that are part of the original building it'd be part of the you know adaptive use and Reclamation part of the project would be to take the trusses out which we were going to do anyway and instead we'll just extend the structure up and then we'll reuse the TR trusses to reframe the roof so um that is the P the plan that we're we're proposing to do um it does change the roof as far as we were original plan was a flat roof um and now the the existing trusses have a it's a pitch roof but it's it's a minor pitch it's not anything severe or steep so that is that is the updated uh project another part of the project um from the original approval is you know we were going to place some balconies around the perimeter that face along Bond Street and then along Lake Avenue um as we're you know looking at the project from a from a maintenance and long-term aspect of it um you know those little pockets we weren't we felt that they weren't going to perform that we way they want to perform as far as use and then the actual maintenance um of tying them into the existing structure and having that balcony above existing floor space it's it's a it's a tough place to manage cuz they're not really big they're like these little holes and we're afraid of water and ice damage and leaking and longterm maintenance of of the of the structure at that point so um a decision was made that it' be best that if we remove them and and just push the uh push the exterior walls along Bond and L G up against the back of the existing uh masonry wall so that in a nutshell there's the the idea of what we're changing and then I have the drawings so Tres were just about reusing them that wasn't an extension it's not what we extending well yeah so the truss is uh there was we had the ground floor then we have the main hall floor if you remember the VFW right yeah okay so those trusses made up the roof but that roof was too low for our new addition so what we what we're doing we were going to put an addition and reframe the whole new roof out of traditional T so you're going to use the trusses for that it's not a new new addition it's just using the trusses in that addition right that's where you're enlarging the addition from the last no we're not enlarging the addition no no no no no we're going up another FL let's let's clarify that we're we're the the height of the building is going to change by about about a foot about a foot from was origin because we're using the trust correct yes um Dan do you have the rendering that we could show them yeah just so you could get a comparison of what was approved versus what's y yeah I don't we identify this is well everything the last meeting had a so let's make this a A1 all right and D just describe aa1 for the board yeah aa1 so these are the renderings that were part of the original approval um so you can see along this is an image along uh Lake Avenue here uh where we have the you can see the railing now they're pushed back but it's not a tremendous amount of space you could see just by the image that I mean it was nice nice thought but in practicality it just wasn't going to work at the end of the day um so that's what you're talking about they were push back and ice and water yeah yeah yeah so that it it seemed like it was going to be a challenge so you could see the windows and the makeup and then then the flat roof line and that's the one story Edition above and here's just some other perspectives that we have U of the approved you can see this is the the bond uh where it's recess back there um so overall I mean that that was the original project um and then I'll go to so this is what we're proposing now right so same materials the windows uh were modified to be more consistent with the window type below because we're not having the sliders anymore right there's no access to the balconies so it's it's been changed to a more uh uniform style of window uh that is below um these peers are a function of where the trusses are like that we can't move that's how far the trusses stick out right they come down on these existing masonry peers that are part of the existing structure that's all loadbearing masonry that we're we're sitting on and then the the the wall itself is still pushed back behind the existing wall we didn't build we're not going to build on top we're still bring that back uh so this is now a perspective of uh the corner it's right and back of it it's right and back of it now that's correct and this is a perspective uh at the corner and now know you can start to see uh how the shape and the roof line of the new trust line matches the actual the old parit line because that's where those trusses we right behind that powerit so I mean I I don't I don't think it's uh impacted the you know the overall design of the project I think his you know the the pop of the historical uh building Still Remains the design intent of the uh the the addition still and I think bless you I think you um you gain value cuz you know what we're going to do is those trusts are going to be exposed in those top floor units so that's going to be like you know a nice vaulted area where people are going to be able to see that structure and then and you know bring back the history and really feel like they're part of it and um you know we've done this with Douglas and some other projects and they just you where we can expose steel and things like that and and highlight the existing space any way you can adaptive reuse is always a is always a positive thing um that Ro sort of mimics the the lower part yeah cuz that's that par basically those old trusses were right behind that old parit so we're just picking them up and then we're going to we're going to post down with new steel and then set these at the higher elevation so the trusses only in that section then no they go all the way across so the all the way from Lake all the way yeah yeah no no the trusses go yeah this front piece here there appendaged I guess you could say in the front doesn't have the trusses the main volume so I'll go to the floor plan for that it'll be easier probably before before you leave that sorry um the the upper part on the left here um it looks like the walls are recessed just a little bit from where those the black pillars are yeah but in the actual I mean I walked by there today and in the photo you submitted it looks like the wall feet behind those pillars so we're like I said we were moving forward we had a permit to do structure so some of that stuff is all stopped right cuz we want to get this approved got it right so we were working on the original way and then we decided pivot so you're seeing the in between of the pivot basically so we're not doing nothing now and then all those walls most a lot of that stuff will get taken out and redone how you marrying that like sealing that put the right next to we're GNA we'll flash in the cap right so you know um if we have to remove sometimes we'll we'll take that cap Stone off of the existing building right CU we don't want to flash on top of it cuz it's nice pre-cast and then you know we'll tie it in underneath uh and maybe just a perspective of of of the image the the the top floor and the far and left uh the roof hangs over the wall how how big is that hang uh are you you R into this this front line you see my mouse yeah but on the other end oh oh on this end so what we're doing here is that will hang over and that would align with the face of the brick that'll be the max we hang over so it won't extend beyond Stone capping no it won't extend beyond the stone what is the uh what is the the dep it's about a 12 in extension does that exist on the opposite side as well yeah that'll exist on the we'll do the same thing on the other end okay yeah it it does look like the um if you go to the prior one there it looks like there's like the windows are significantly smaller yeah than the prior which I found very appealing in the past okay on the lake a side okay cuz I I get the other side the other side is is um I don't have the prior picture on the other side of the um was that bangs Bond Bond but here I'm sorry but that that that top floor is very unappealing are you talking about just these three on the left yeah yeah me too I and and the one on the as you round the corner you can see that it was like a three it was much more appealing I mean visually for me agree much more appealing than this but these three on the right these look these these look right to me well they the ones here cuz this was used to be a three yeah oh you like it bigger yeah I like it bigger like that breaks I like that it breaks it breaks it up yeah I'm with you right know oh yeah breaks up the block yeah what so I know you try to match the window yeah match I mean want I think this is much more I agree you breaks up the block that's something we can look I don't think out a window no well let well let's let's decide what that looks like they're also tall because they're tall they're also tall they're not short windows These are nice tall windows so that there's more light coming into the space and um I'm I'm just saying and on I know on the other side where we're were saying that on um on bond I like the fact that that that it matches the trusses match the lower that that's nice I mean that that's appealing I I'm just struggling with this and I don't solutions could come out it's not a very you know it's it's those three Bays that really have a lot of power on that facade they do have we can we can add a little more light and glass into there that's not I don't I don't see that being an issue as long as it's unless larger glass not not the same that was proposed I agree you're saying not the three panes but no I I like I like these which were the which was the original you as opposed to if you go back to the the Middle Bay on that Frontage yep is is a slider was a slider yes so they're not going to have sliders anymore but the one on the left one on the left is just a regular triple the one on the left is what you asking the last one on the left I'm looking at the two sets I'm looking at all three of those that are sitting right there yeah the three B and that one and the next one a that's a SL but if you like this I I get it can you do Juliet I don't I don't like jul but just personally in general more more glazing on the top is is better generally more glazing on the top especially in that just to I think everybody's kind of in unanimous agreement do we want to agree that we're going to go back to the original window Style on the top floor Paul go ahead if I may I I and I do agree I would like I would like to not put the doors in though if we could agree that we would accept that triple on the end as the as the as the larger window option so that we the doors and all the the RIS of coming I think that would be fabulous y okay I think that design would be I mean that's what I liked about it to begin with again are we talking about just these three no I was I was thinking about these three now do that I don't let's can we take a look at the uh the other side go to the elevation there there this is the old one though the old one that's the old one okay that's yeah yeah see they're short again yeah I like why they're short we like bigger Windows yeah those are short windows again but I think you hit the wall that's the problem yeah I got to watch it yeah I have the power like yeah those ones in the middle I'm right at the window sill so cuz you flush with yeah they not set back anymore no no so you the window can't go past the wall no but it's it's not just about the it's not just about the height of them it's off the uh it's there's a gap between there's a set of two and a set of two but even within the set of two and the left there there's a gap between this is missing if you go back to the original improved elevation uh my architect was supposed to We were supposed to put those were eliminated by acci these two window to put those back we'll put those back and we'll get him scaled y agreed which elevation is this this is Bond Street elevation this is the Bond Street El so so we're going to agree on the Bond Street elevation to um add back in the two smaller Windows clear story Windows yeah okay okay what are those rooms back there there seems to be an inconsistency with your renderings with your new renderings with the trusses on the uh Bond Street side it's it's t renderings um it's they're good and bad because it's always hard to recreate exactly um when things get remodeled I know there's like I mean I could tell you just you want to see the Bond Street yeah can you clarify that the which which direction are the trusses going to be are be parallel to the Bond Street uh facade or going to be parallel to the lake and they're parallel to the Bond Street facade but only in the area that's now a pitch roof only in the area that's now a pitch roof okay your plans do not really depict where that uh that roof is and that's what's causing in my mind so when you get to the roof plan can you outline where those where we yeah we could show this the yeah I understand this is the ridg is down the see the ridg is down the middle yeah right okay and then you see the column grids the the there's no trusses on the ends right so the end walls do not have trusses but everything from the 1.8 3 4 5 6 and 7even along those lines on the plan are where the trusses will be what do they look like are they just or no they're ra iron trust they're put together riveted riveted they're really really yeah they're they're probably uh at the ends they're probably like 3 feet tall and then at the ridge they're like 6 feet tall looks like the underside of a bridge yeah yeah yeah looks like a brid and for and for what we we did consult we had a preservation consultant with us on this project Kim dander from Washington and and she testified at the prior hearings we did run this like Kim and we do have a letter that we could submit if you'd like but she absolutely was thrilled with this direction from a preservation standpoint felt it was very additive and a great feature and was very supportive were they exposed in the original building or were they encased they had a Dro ceiling in the original building they W encased no no no it was like in the Attic with the with the pitched roof how does that affect the Mechanicals and do the Mechanicals need to be screened now the Mechanicals were screened previously and they'll still be screened today now it's it's not flat so the curve the little curves that we have to build for them will you know step down along the way but we will screen it just as we were before right so in your roof plan here yes the trusses go from uh to the bottom I can am I allowed to mark up on here without is that something I'm allowed to do yeah we we we'll just submit it can you can you save it of what you mark yeah I could try to if I know what I'm doing I don't know why that's not uh we should probably mark this if we're going to draw on it why don't we mark this as exhibit this is AA too a and we're going to it'll be a what are we calling this Dan a marked up uh copy of the architectural plan set exactly where they were originally on the same bearing PE so those are your trusts okay that's those are the location of the trust yep okay and you say you're going with your uh mechan those are going to build a uh a wall to yeah we have a screen and that was a part of the original approval so that doesn't change yeah but you now you've got a pitch roof and you've got mechanical so you're going to have to uh build up one we'll have to level the each one of the the units and then we'll we'll have a disc just try to figure out Y and your plans were a little confusing screen I'll check them so I mean it's more of a visual presentation more than anything else I think in this case right yeah and there's no other um no other proposed changes to the floor plans no I saw you're you're gaining minimal square footage right on the floor planes I mean but in terms of the layout or anything like that yeah yeah we haven't changed Yeah question layy spots the Windows like if you look at I guess the second floor or third floor I guess this the third floor we kind of fix um the one this should not have changed from the original partition w window at the very these three windows in the front of the building and one like both these bathrooms wall here uh Dam front of the building front of the building see there 38 window yeah yes one's on a wall between we'll build a m inside that window to receive that wall M okay so you won't see it from the outside out age window no you'll see the window but you won't see the wall behind it wall behind the window I guess I saw some windows Happ sometimes particularly on a storage buildings you got to deal with way things break I'm sorry understand out there will be a wall behind the window so the that middle window is not actually adding light into the building it will be right thetically it's a gun like a gun turret window it's a very small window so by the time you see the wall there's not a lot to the right left of it m so just to put a wall that just makes it cleaner okay the shower next to it the sixes Al those so those we would leave those windows in the six is still in the bump outs yeah yeah we'd leave those windows bring light in what we would typically do is just like bubble screening or something on the inside so for privacy purposes but they allow to light in good idea appreciate that particular if I'm taking for the inside and outside yeah Standard Hotel funy so I mean I think you know that's effectively the application uh the application is for amended and and preliminary final site plan approval but as you saw it's um it's for the trusses it's for the windows which we agreed to go back to the original window style um and then for the elimination of the balconies on the front and um I don't have a lot more further direct for either uh Mr Conductor or Mr milstein does the parking the same includ the two handic spaces and the ramp everything everything on site Remains the Same there's no changes to the approved site plan and so with the with the increase of the footage for two two in incremental feet because of the trusses we're still within compliance still inside of 45 ft we're still inside 45 so we're okay can you just walk us through your dimensional there since that's is that the one from tonight no that's uh the one yeah the one I gave you the clarification on yeah I have to pull it up as a new ex that's fine so be another exhibit sure so we'll call this aa3 and this will be the um height exhibit yeah there was I you know there was just a little bit of clarification on how the measure the height is it's different than the CBD is different than how it's measured in the regular zoning ordinance so we just had to measure from the right location we're measuring from the mean but you don't use the mean mhm here so um so the height is measured from uh Lake a is the the datm point that's the the curve so the 8.54 is is the uh elevation at the curve along uh Lake Avenue which is our lowest portion of the site so from there to the ridge I'll show you that's the ridge line the top of the roof is uh 44 uh 9 and 1/2 in oh and can you go to can you go to the right cuz that's the top of the roof yeah that's the top of the roof yeah um I also have it on this elevation here that's the top of the roof where that 3.7 is y that's the same just the same okay so that's 44 whatever yeah and I can I can add that dimension on this elevation too for during the res as long as we're not going Beyond 45 yeah that's correct yeah we set them we set the bottom of the TR on the new floor as low as we could so they're going to be like you know I think uh 8 ft to the Y side when you walk underneath them we didn't want to go less than that cuz it might feel a little uncomfortable but we try to you know keep them as low as we can and then uh the only other question I had was on your elevation so I'm not seeing it on this one on the Lake Avenue side Lake Avenue side there's uh yeah it's weird okay um on the set we got on Friday there's a railing running along uh from the the garage across the front oh I know is that was that was a uh yeah that we were at one point looking possibly to put uh some fencing in front of the building and that was just left left over from an old design that is not a part of this at all so what we had before is what you're yeah we contemplating I don't see that now yeah no we we were originally when we first were looking at this application contemplating doing some things like that to the site but we just wanted to make sure we got approval for the architectural changes and if we want to make site design changes we'll come back for further approval but we took everything off so the site plan remained un changed little black looks nice okay any other questions um are are we is there anything else I'm done any other questions from the planning board members no just the caret cas on goe what the window configuration could be on the new floor we're going back to the uh original what the original Windows yes on the third floor yes yeah the original Three bay windows The original Three bay windows minus the doors minus the slid SL to be so that the when you look at the uh uh photo in the and on page five of CCH it'll look like this yes we're taking that window that's on the extreme Western end of the building corre and that's going to be the one that's going to be Contin propagated right that it's a large window not correct small actually on the Bond Street Front Edge um the windows that you have there now are smaller because of the parapet yeah oh actually looks different looks different than it is here yeah it's okay never mind my question yes unless there's more questions I'll move to we have anybody from the public want a question wi any anyone from the public have any questions no Okay no Okay um public comment any public comment no would you like a comment no okay okay all right close so move second fa motion to approve all hold on second [Applause] okay Bano yes Jim Henry yes Jeremy Hoffman yes mayor Moore yes Daniel sheno yes Jen saer yes Vice chair gonan yes and chairwoman Barbara KAC yes as long as Jack has what he needs in order to write the resolution yeah I've got the the changes are contained in report I got the window Treat Street and I'm ready to go all right good thank you everybody thank you so much good night toour