welcome everyone today's Monday February 5th 2024 and this is a regular meeting of the city at Asbury Park planning board chairwoman KAC can you please call this meeting to order uh this this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the coaster and Asbury press by publication of the annual meeting notice and post on Municipal buling bulletin board and Municipal website all notices are on file with the board secretary official action may be taken on the following matters before this board fire exits are located on East and West sides of council chambers as well as the back of the building I will ask everyone with a cell phone or other device to kindly silence your device for the duration of this meeting this meeting is being recorded by APV for your viewing pleasure anytime in the future please join me in the pl of Allegiance Pledge of Allegiance to the flag United States of America and to the repics one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all I will now take roll call James Bano here councilwoman Clayton here Eric gallipo here Jim Henry here mayor Moore here Daniel shano here Jennifer saer here Vice chair m Gan here and chairwoman Barbara KAC here uh the first item on uh on the uh agenda approval of minutes we are catching up as you can see on the dates of these minutes um uh any uh was everybody able to access these just to make sure September 19th 2022 um eligible members are yes eligible members John Moore Jim Henry Jennifer S Eric galipo yvon Clayton James bonano and Barbara KAC okay can I get a motion to uh to approve the minutes for September 19th 2022 second um do you want to do all call or just just just call those who are eligible um John Moore yes Jim Henry yes Jenifer saer yes Eric Alo yvon Clayton yes James bonano and chairwoman ref that yes uh next set of minutes for were for March 20th 2023 regular Meeting those uh eligible members are Jim Henry Jennifer saer Michael goonan yvon Clayton James Bano and Daniel shano all right can I get a motion to approve for those that are eligible to vote move to approve second Jim Henry yes Jennifer saer yes Michael goonan yes yvon Clayton yes James bonano Daniel shano yes next one is uh minutes from June 5th 2023 folks that are eligible eligible members are James Bano yvon Clayton Jim Henry Jennifer saer Eric galipo Michael goonan and Barbara kurac okay can I get a motion for approval second James yes Ivon Clayton yes Jim Henry Jennifer saer Yes Eric gipo yes Michael goonan Yes Barbara KAC yes all right I appreciate your patience those in the uh in the audience but we have uh 10 resolutions we have to go through before the applications begin um first resolution is for the approval of the proposed accessory dwelling unit ordinance and now this remember this is the suggestions that we had recommendation we have to the council regarding this um regarding the accessory dwelling units um anyone have any uh concerns um I sent Jack a a comment on the oneyear tency I asked to consider adding the initial tency so that somebody who has a one-year lease could continue for a term shorter than a year as most leases allow so like somebody who's staying on doesn't have to renew for a full year but could renew for 6 months or 3 months um and that new tenants would be held to the onee lease restriction um that was not discussed I I'm aware of during the meeting so I believe that that's that's more of a c and I and one other thing that did come up regarding this was that we're uh we were unsure as was Michelle was unsure as to what we can legally do yeah yeah so that has to do with uh Municipal Council has to decide what our recommendation is and whether our recommendation holds up to the law letting you know that was the concern I Rel was about the initial tendency okay and my memory of this was that U we had discussed that you can't necessarily um set a term of a rental in a land use law but we can recommend to the council that when they're reviewing the rental ordinance that they should should can and we recommend they should set a minimum term for properties if use you are right yeah okay you are right that was discussed because it wasn't in some I foret it was a 30 something right and so I don't I don't think we decided six months or a year I think we just said this Council should we recommend the council should uh review this when they review the the retal ordinance agree I thought I thought that we had mentioned a year and I believe that Jack had it as a year I also I also think it was a year okay so understand I had a conversation with Jack um because he just wanted me to get give me a heads up about the the meeting obviously I wasn't at the meeting when you discussed it um so as a barber was just indicating there are limitations as to what you can put and actually Michael you you as well uh that you can put in a land use ordinance um there was a referral obviously this is a referral to the board the board can make their comments ultimately the city council and mayor um buying with the uh Council of the city um they may be limited as to what they can actually put in the document but if it's the board's preference to have a one-year term um certainly that can be a recommendation whether they can legally do that I'm going to defer to the City attorney as to what limitations they can and cannot do and I think we just wanted to say if it's because it's probably not going to be allowed in this ordinance but when the city does review their rental ordinance we want them to consider it at that point so we have to um as a board decide that whether whether we are in agreement with this resolution uh understanding that the municipal uh attorney will have to you know make additional decisions as well as when the the council uh reviews the rental rules if you will um to make this consideration so do we um does this board uh agree with the one year as we discussed and I think that we have to vote on it as one year and if someone just says that no I don't agree with the one year they can vote no and um you know if it doesn't get passed due to that then I guess that we have to review that but I I I seem to remember one year okay so uh I'm going to make a recommendation that we uh we approve this uh resolution as is with a one-year term with the understanding that the city uh the municipal attorney will make their decision and recommended to the city council and the city council should bring this over to uh when they review the rental agreen mons so I'm requesting that we uh we pass this if I can get a second I'll second um eligible members um James banano yes yvon Clayton yes Jim Henry yes Jennifer saer Yes Eric Alo yes Michael goonan Yes Barbara KAC yes and just one thing um I I know John just just in case uh and I know the Avon was here to discuss this it really had to do with um summer rentals to not have restricted to summer rentals that was why we were going in this direction okay uh next resolution is the approval of uh 700 Monroe Avenue approval of that resolution um we have who's available who's allowed to do that for this one is Mayor John Moore Jim Henry councilwoman yvon Clayton Jennifer saer and Eric out Bo okay we get someone to someone that is eligible to vote to uh move this forward second okay and uh Mayor John Moore yes Jim Henry yes Council l m Clayton yes Jennifer saer Yes Eric Alo yes okay uh I did ask if we could do these as a group and I was told no no so here we go all right the resolution for approval of planning board attorney for 2024 um can I get a motion to approve move it okay I guess we need a verbal for each one of these yes okay go ahead that's okay we have to do what we have to do uh eligible members uh James bonano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric galipo yes Jim Henry yes Jennifer saer Yes Vice chair Mike gunen yes and chairwoman Bart buerak yes uh next one is resolution for approval of planning board planners for 2024 can I get a motion to approve I'll second does this include sour includes what sours that we've already we've already had that discussion sometime before December okay and on at exe executive session we had that discussion and um I wanted to make sure that the whole board knew what was going on I presented that and then we moved forward thank you okay so uh I'm sorry where are we did we did we get the approval for um I have Jim Henry uh motion Barbara second okay so roll uh James Bano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric alipo yes Jim Henry yes John saer yes Vice chair munan yes and chairwoman Barbara KAC yes uh resolution for approval of planning board secretary for 2024 can I get a motion to approve question yes I'm sorry get get the motion in second okay uh who get the motion oh jenry second mik is second Michael second okay um James Bano question I don't know Ken what question why can't I vote on this on secretary last last meeting and because these these all happened in the last meeting I don't know can oh is that what Happ so so all of these were approved were approved at the last meeting okay and now the resolutions are going through okay this is just okay this is just the resolution to move I didn't know that myself you forgot no problem than of course we brought it up at the secretary home uh James banana yes Council Clayton yes Eric Alo Jim Henry Jen yes Vice chair mun chairwoman Barbara yes next resolution for approval of uh planning board Conflict attorneys for 2024 this one uh has a typo in it it says the year is 2043 we just correct that it's wait in the actual resol in the actual resolution yes paragraph one um so it actually says but with that I'll make a motion to approve once that's corrected second and we are on recording entity no we're recording about conflict attorney no no we're recording entity we haven't done recording entity yet skip that you actually Barber you did say conflict attorney I'm sorry are we I wasn't listening I wasn't listening it's recording entity okay recording entity let Jimmy up to bring it up recording entity the one for entity has a typo in it right so we will correct the typo got it okay so for that one motion and I'll second okay uh James Bano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric Alo yes Jim Henry yes Jen saer yes Vice chair mun yes chairwoman Barbara person yes okay let's do this again resolution for approval of planning board Conflict attorneys for 2024 motion to approve move it second okay uh James banao yes councilman Clayton yes Eric alibo y Jim Henry yes Jennifer saer Yes Vice chair munan yes and chairwoman Barbara carac yes next one resolution for approval for planning board interim board Engineers for 2024 I get a motion to approve move second James bonano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric Alo yes Jim Henry yes Jennifer saer Yes Vice chair Mike gunan yes chairwoman Barbara KAC yes next one is resolution for approval for planning board conflict Engineers for 2024 uh can I get a motion to approve so move second James Bano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric Alo yes Jim Henry yes Jen saer yes Vice chair munan yes chairman Barbara carac yes uh last and not least resolution for approval of planning board conflict planners for 2024 I get a motion to approve second James Bano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric Alo yes Jim Henry Jen saer yes Vice chair munan yes chairwoman bber KAC yes all right all right we're good to go okay we're uh out to our first application planning board 2021 um having to do with 614 cookman Avenue I thought that uh would you like to sure so I have had conversations with the is Council here you don't want to come up sure so I've had conversation with Council and the applicant on this one and um there is a problem with the notice from what I see so the statute it's a statutory thing whether we have jurisdiction is subject to the statute so the statute says that the notices have to be um sent to the names and addresses as given by the uh tax assessor whoever is in charge of the city applicants received the um letter from the tax assessor as to who they had to send it to uh however when they submitted their affidavit the title all the certified mailing receipts of which there are quite a few obviously because it's Asbury Park um none of them had names or addresses on the certified mailing receipts the applicant says that they sent it to all of the property owners but I can't verify that when there's no names or addresses on the receipts and it's a strict compliance thing so so that's that's the problem problem here is the statute requires strict compliance of the names got to be spelled right address have to be right um zip codes everything has to be exactly as it is listed in there um the applicant then subsequently tried to get additional information from the um post office and the information that I received from them from the post office still doesn't get us to the point where we can verify that there's there are names and addresses in fact one of the documents uh I got an email that was from Brian Durant at Asbury brewery.com um to Abdul Hamed Katrina Asbury Park New Jersey and it is a list of the certified mailing numbers now these certified mailing numbers do appear to be the certified mailing numbers that the applicant um had on the list the certified mailings but there are a number of things for example one one says in transit one says unclaimed one says vacant one ISS Transit um one says forward forwarding expired Transit um and it's just the numbers of of what's on the certified mail again we don't have names and addresses that I can tie it to so I received another document from them um and it's the product tracking and Reporting um with a sheet showing what appears to be signatures some of these actually have signatures some some of them actually have an address but the signatures are not that legible and quite honestly uh one of the documents there's about there are about three or four that look exactly the same referencing different um properties as I go through here so with all of that said it is my opinion that from the jurisdictional standpoint of the statute we do not have jurisdiction to hear this matter how however the notice itself was okay um what was in the notice was okay so the applicant did also provide notice in the paper if the matter gets carried by the board we can say there will be no new notice in the paper however it's my op my opinion that um the notice to the property owners is not proper and we can't take jurisdiction okay that sounds pretty uhar clear cut that we don't have jurisdiction here uh so what is the alternative at this point is to do notice again they're going to have to noce okay and then we have a date um Marie um our next meeting February 26 2024 okay so so we do have a slot that's available so for February for February 20 uh for on February 26th we can go again uh if you send out the notices do are there enough time is there enough time yeah it's only February 5th is it possible for us to be heard on this you can be heard but it's not going to change my opinion as the jurisdiction fair enough okay well the only thing is as per the letter that's in front of zoning that was printed by Asbury uh it tells you exactly what to do and to go to the post office we did exactly what is written on that notice from Asbury Park unfortunately and this is just a situational thing one person needs to enter in all 57 of these things here are the tickets right here we did all of them when we went back to him on Monday uh Jeff said unfortunately you can't match the signatures to the uh to the the um the certified mail receipts Katrina is the postmaster of Asbury Park she gave us all of the people who actually received it I got all of their signatures with their tracking number on it so we do have their signatures we do have the tracking numbers one of the things that Jeff correctly uh stated was that some people put a line through their signature there's nothing we can do about that is some people just that's how they sign stuff actually one of the funny thing is the um one of the uh utilities signs it like that so we did we did everything that we could do unfortunately the Postmaster said that this is how we were supposed to do it the receipts are all right here all 57 stamped the way he wanted it the receipt for everything we paid is here so to what we were told to do by the letter that I got from Michelle Alonzo at zoning what we did over there everything was paid for it there was a receipt for everyone who went out and as per Jeff if people don't if people get it after the fact he has no concern there's nothing we can do if somebody gets it after the fact and we track every person who got it or who didn't get it and we again we cannot control if somebody didn't get it but everything was mailed to the residents who was there they're signed the tracking numbers are here unfortunately you know they want there's a situation where you want a green slip but there's nothing on the the application from zoning that says anything about a green slip so I don't know what else we could have done because again the postmaster of asber Park told us to do it this way so you saying the receipts don't have addresses these receipts so those these are all the receipts and the names are not on them but the tracking so what we did is we took the tracking numbers that are on all these receipts got the receipts from the post office and match them up with the addresses and the signatures so these what should be on here we have on this on these sheets of paper instead so but when you send these certified do do you fill out sending us so we went to the post off he went to the post office to do that and when he did there's 57 of them right and you're showing up there so the postmaster or whoever was filling it out with him told him he did not have to fill these things out it takes the gentleman and this is a side thing it takes the guy an hour one guy an hour and 45 minutes to input this it's really it's not the best it's it's a state regulation because I talked to zoning about a state regulation it's not an ASB regularization but this is this is not the probably the best way of going about doing it but that's how the gentleman said do it he said give me every single envelope give me that stick that sticker to the envelope bring it back up he fills that everything I want sends it to us but don't fill out don't fill it out he says you he's done it so you can't read like some people's things so actually this is what I gave him which is like that those were filled out address would that be sufficient that would have been that would have been fine but they came to me not filled out and then you know if if they were filled out my assumption and I can only do an assumption at that point I can only assume that the actual envelope meant what's on the certified mailing but when I get a certified mailing it has no name no address I can't accept that but again those if those were filled out that would have been sufficient that would have been that that's they would have they would have done their statutory obligation but the statute says what the statute says so to be clear we need to come back back in a month with these document these little things filled out is that what you're saying you're going to have to Ren notice sure no that's what I'm saying we're going to Reen notice everything and come back with these things filled out and these documents that have the same tracking information and the names and the addresses do not suffice correct those those other documents look if you if you were able to give me very clear every single person on those on those sheets like Teresa Healey very clear it's easy to see that but if you look below that there's no delivery address I can't verify a name and address are you sure there are the addresses are on the stickers up top those stickers are not what the post office gives you they're what we they're what we put on the end exctly exactly so it's not it's not sufficiently verifiable according to the statute so you have to you have to put what we generally do when I do it is we do a label we print two sets of labels one goes on the envelope one goes on the certified mailing then you know it's exactly the same because both labels are the same okay okay and then you don't have to do the Green Card I always do the green card that's the return receipt as well yeah it's like it's an extra three or four bucks per mailing but I do it because then I have a verification with those that come back even the ones that might come back after I still have something in my in my file records as to what happens okay um but look I I've been in your shoes I've done the same thing I just did it last month I had to send $600 worth of notices out because I spelled one word wrong on my notice literally right what I don't what I don't understand is you had con communicated with us in email that you needed something that had the name and the tracking information on it correct that's correct then it's got to have the name the the address and the tracking information all clear which is what this is it's not Teresa Healey doesn't have a delivery on I mean guess the name on the 200 foot L to the name on the envelope I get it but here's the thing you got you're saying you're not going to I can't control if somebody does that but you can control that okay that's what you can control FLD out thousands of those myself I know it sucks I get it but then here's the thing two things one is thank you then if we can update the the information that the town gives people and the sign of zoning to to have that I actually talked the guy at the post office was very apologetic he didn't know but the problem is now we're going to waste another 350 bucks two hours of him individually entering every one of these things in here when in the end I you said the biggest thing you worried about is somebody coming in here after the fact right absolutely right because it voids it voids the whole hearing right but we also have sent notices to all those people and we have proof that at least 50 of them received it correct so now we're going to send notices to all these people again saying hi come back on another date although they they received it and I don't think anybody's here what what I would say to that is if if someone came tonight because they got a notice they would hear from the board what we're going to say we're going to give a new date we're going to give the time of that date and you're not going to have to notice in the newspaper because the notice was okay okay but for purposes of notifying the utilities property owners and all that you do have to re notice for that new date and what I would recommend because your um assessor list is from October you should get an updated assessor list as well fair enough so just so we're clear when we come back here in a month or whatever day it is I just need to bring back this no no no you have to submit you submitted an affidavit correct you have to do that same process but those filled out with the with the same addresses where they sent correct have to be included with that this so the affidavit and this will suffice and we'll be good so let me just go back to your affid hold so your affidavit had it was three three pages it's got affidavit ass service city of Asbury Park um it's got the public notice that you're sending out so we'll need that because that's going to have to have this new date on it right and then um this is your press so you don't have to do the Press so those two pages are going to be there your notice and that affidavit okay and then the other thing that we're going to need is all of your certified mailings showing all all of the addresses on there of where you s them okay and and that that works for that great can can we I'm sorry I would also recommend that you send out the return receipts uh that is a big help when the attorney or the planner or anybody else who's looking at it if you have those return receipts as well it's a big help to uh other to the board and his professional thank you and I understand Jim's comment it is not statutorily required I just want to do want to put that on the record um I do it as a matter of course on my own practice because then you have a verification fair enough all right so just because I can put a sticker I can put the same white sticker that's on here on the bottom of this because the guy said that they don't like people to film out because you can't read them right that that's what I which is brilliant that's fine I get it and the second thing is can you change the thing next to zoning so that it says that because it doesn't say that it just says get a certified mail that's and then when the postmaster says thing about it is the statute dictates what has to happen I totally understand that but if the if the postman I've never done this before if the postman says do it this way you listen to what the guy says you know which I mean it's unfortunate I I've been here on your side and I've been here on this side saying to clients or for applicants that they don't they don't have jurisdiction um unfortunately right so the the next date is when February 26 okay so we do need a motion to carry it to Fe February 26th without notice in the Press only or in the paper only okay can I get a motion to carry this application to February 2026 one without notice to the press and the other one with notice um for the list of um James bonano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric galipo yes Jim Henry yes mayor Moore yes Daniel shano yes Jennifer saer Yes Vice chair munan yes chairwoman Barbara KAC yes all right so that's our next meeting okay thank you thank you thank you all right next application is uh is a preliminary and final subdivision on bordon Avenue good evening how are you hello hi I'm Ben Maven curve I represent the applicant Savvy investors LLC um I anticipate testimony from the owner and we have our engineer as well who's going to provide some testimony and answer some questions okay so with your permission I'll have the owner come up absolutely okay if you could raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes and if you can state your name and then spell your name for the record n Jen and I spell it as m i n a l g i n and you are the owner of the property I'm I'm one of the partners in LLC and the manager okay you have authority to testify behalf LLC just since it is an LLC if you could just review who the uh partners are certain at least 10% certainly Miss Jane uh can you tell us the percentages in the ownership of the partnership pleas two partners one I'm 50% and then I have another friend aoke Vali he's another 50% and you're the managing member of the correct okay thank you so uh Miss Jane uh what can you tell me about the three adjacent lots that were here for today um what what street are they on bord and Avenue so there are three lots of three sizes we just want to combine them into two okay yeah we can step a little bit there you go sure all three lots front on bordon Avenue and are located between mad Avenue and Springwood Avenue correct right okay and all three lots are located in the R1 zone am I right right okay and that's a single family residential Zone correct correct and all three lots are undeveloped am I correct correct okay um there are two large trees and some Shrubbery but aside from that there's really nothing else on those lots am I right um there's the driveway okay you're right there's a there's a driveway a finished driveway on that lot as well correct okay now your application is looking to adjust the lot lines to create two lots where there are three am I right correct okay and in seeking to create the two lots you're creating 250 by 150 Lots correct I think so okay they're about 7500t in area correct yes and uh both lots that you're proposing to create they're going to conform to the minimum lot depth area with requirements of the R1 zone right right okay and as they ex today only one of those three lots is in conform it's am I right correct okay there's two undersized Lots those are lots 11 and lot 13 am I right right and those are roughly 3750 ft correct right okay you're not proposing to develop the Lots at this time am I right there's no plan as of now okay you mentioned the existing driveway now that driveway is being utilized by the adjacent lot number 14 am I right right okay and there's no existing easements that permit the use of that driveway correct right is it possible that that driveway as it exist would need to be demolished in the future I don't know I mean the plans are not in place um so fair enough you've received and reviewed some comments and recommendations from the engineer in a letter dated November 27 2023 am I right right and to the extent that you end up developing the lot you're prepared to abide by those comments and recommendations correct of course the surrounding properties are all residential am I right okay that's all the questions I have for the owner I do have the engineer on hand uh he may be able to answer some more technical questions but that's all I have for the owner so if the board uh the council has any other questions can you just specify just one more time about the driveway because I do have a it's hard for us to tell um so the driveway that's that exists sits on lot 13 right right and right now somebody else like puts their car there they use it and that's on your property uh that's your business right now so let's just put that to the side okay so okay does anybody anybody on the board have any questions to the uh the owner anyone on the board questions professional questions okay let's open up uh questions I have another question regard are you going to are you looking to Grant an easement to that neighbor lot 14 no not at this time okay yeah there there isn't one on record there's nothing on title there's no uh right of way or anything that I could find um he's trespassing as far as I'm concerned okay okay are they aware that you're going to be doing this well they were noticed about this meeting with they were noticed uh for this meeting um I know Miss Jane has spoken to him I've met him like informally I'd met him um mhm right I believe they're renting so I'm not sure if they're the owners or the tenants to be fair but they are aware of this application and I do have the green card with the number on it which is which is important I do have the No No I handw write them I don't mess with the stickers because they fall off sometimes all right so at this time we'll have just just one one second I just have to do a formality can I open up any questions from the public no questions from the public okay up you go all right thank you all right thank you okay now I do have Mr Rosati who's the PE on this project yeah you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to be provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth yes I do and if you can uh state your name for the record again SP please Christopher P Ros body R ATI with FW Associates Tom rer New Jersey and while we're doing that we're also going to swear in our professionals if you can both raise your hands you swear from any testimony you will provide tonight will be the truth and the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do yes I do can I just ask a question um the documents that we have are created by um Joseph Barbieri and Associates who are they they're the surveyors of record for the so they're surveyors only so you had nothing to do with these documents correct okay I'm here to answer some engineering questions that were raised in the review letter okay great and it is typical that you have a survey or prepare the survey Engineers okay I just see that we have nothing else besides that okay okay um we just need to to have your credentials sure please I'm a licensed professional engineer and planning in the state of New Jersey I have a um Bachelor of Science degree from Ruckers University in civil engineering graduated in 1994 I have been involved in Land Development projects since uh July of 1994 when I started with flanary web en handon that was the name of the firm at the time it's now FW Associates I'm a principal in The Firm at this point um I have not testified before this board but I testified before numerous boards in the area I actually grew up in Oakhurst um so I'm somewhat local growing up and I actually went to Nursery School at the YMCA on on Main Street back in 1975 believe it or not um my primary focus has been through my whole career has been Land Development from the in uh a small one lot plot plan onto multiple uh unit major subdivisions and site plans um two years of my career I served uh as a Township engineer in the township of millstone in Mammoth County um and the assistant engineer of that town as well and your CER certifications are all licenses are all current yes all current okay okay respectfully tender uh Mr vadi is a qualified expert could testify in the field of engineering okay now you've received and reviewed the comments and recommendations from the city engineer a letter dated November 27 2023 correct yes and you did respond or member of your firm responded to that to that letter am I right uh to your office yes okay so uh I'll ask a few questions in reference to that um one of the questions was whether new connections will be required in the event of future development yeah in the future um more than likely there will be new connections um from an inspection of the property there's uh what I found three um sanitary sewer connections and I only saw one uh water meter however I don't know how old they are so there's a there's a potential that they're all going to have to be replaced based on what material they're made out of or what type of condition they're in so so I would anticipate just to be safe that there will be three new connections um for uh sanitary sewer and three new connections for water obviously you'll need the other utilities as well two I'm sorry two I I apologize I'm sorry two one per each conforming lot on the on the two lot minor subdivision I apologize so there will be um again two so two um utility hits for cable electric what have you um so there will be uh a work that will be required once development takes place okay one of the other questions was whether any utility trenching will be required within the city's right of way could you please talk about that yeah at minimum if we could use the existing hits we would have to trench in the right of way up to those points however if we have to replace them to the point of the main there would be trenching that would be required in the pavement as well okay and lastly the question was asked as to whether the utilities are available along the property's frontage you you've sort of answered that already but if you could please yeah based on my visual inspection and uh other available data there are uh utilities available along the frontage of the site um just for point of record too I don't know if we want to if we need to label the exhibit it is the submitted plan but I just colored it up to make it you can tell each lot if it's colored will we'll mark it as they want okay you want to just uh identify yes can I speak from here is it loud enough so A1 is the a copy of the submitted minor subdivision plan prepared by prepared for Savvy investors LLC by Joseph F barbaryan Associates dated 7523 with no uh revisions so all I did on this exhibit was I highlighted on the keymap where we are along board Avenue and then I outlined track one in blue track two in red showing that both are 7500 Square ft and we have a compliant minor those are all the questions I have at this time um okay then uh if you we look at the Insight engineering letter uh can I assume that from and can you you testify to what's happening with the under Del development review uh 12 through 16 uh are you in agreement that you will will do those things yes the applicant is prepared to comply with all the recommendations in the letter uh as it relates to development is this going to be filed by the deed or Me by feed um so you'll consolidate and then that's correct okay and I'm happy to send you drafts of what we have put together yeah well obviously between the engineer and myself um will you um did you get approval from the tax assessor for the new lot numbers no we did not okay that's something that we'll need to add I know that was one of the comments in the letter but we didn't have the exact number so we didn't we left that out of the map right so that's number 18 that that has to that's correct happen um I don't know if we have to deal with the having to do with the the the aprons that we that are there already and what's going to happen to them in the future or do we wait until there's a development that happens here so I was going to raise that issue um it's something for the board to consider I I understand no developments proposed at this time um but I think there's I'm going off on memory here I don't know if there's three current curb Cuts now um so I mean our recommendation was to replace the sidewalks and curves across the frontage so that when new development comes in you're starting from a clean slate um but you know it's really up to the board in terms of how that how you guys want to handle that um um you saying now get the Cur Cuts now yeah correct isn't that kind of source when you take away the car c place the sidewalk and you come out with the development PL and now You' got to put in new curve cuts and new work uh to accommodate the development would it be there to uh let the development uh items be taken care of when he comes in with a uh development plan you don't have to do the sidewalk you just really have to do the a yeah so the thought is I guess is how how would it be enforced you know um if I I suppose it could be a condition in the resolution and it could be for later um you know when they come in with with development it'll be by right I would assume you're not going to be going for variances I don't think but um so it would be buiz they get a zoning permit they would need a grading plan um I don't know that the curb Cuts would be enforced at that level so that's why I was bringing it up now so that if there's something we can do to get ahead of it if you're going to put a driveway you're going to have to put in a a curve cut and a a depressed sidewalk right but what what happens what happens Jim once they with the existing curb Cuts because now we don't want a whole we don't want four four curb cuts that are just sitting there I I I I see what where Doug's going you also don't know when it will be developed right if if it will be or when I mean I I also get that what you're saying Jim is that why why are we doing anything ahead of time well we only have to Pi out the we have we already they they're already four there right now so how does that get in how how do we deal with those four curb cuts when there's a development if there are no variances then you're not in front of us and it's just we we can't have four curb cuts on a on a property that's only two that only has potential of two driveways right but they're going to be required to eliminate so that would be part of the development plan that maranne when she gets the permit application would review for she would say that just like any other site development applications so it would come up at that point and it can be enforced at that point we'd have to live with all these curb Cuts we are right now that's just like the street put Street trees in now utility pole yeah in front of that so I mean I know we're not at the development of is looking forward where there's likely to be driveway to to lot is that going interfere with uity well we whoever would do that design would just have to design around it so you make sure you're not too close to the utility pole and and and if we're using other uh utility hits usually you don't want them in the driveways either um so you're kind to have to you know play around with what we have as far as handcuffs of where the the driveways should go from a design standpoint and then um offer that up on a plot plan is I thought it was actually yeah it's um pointing to 81 it's roughly in the center of proposed track War oh yeah it says utility pole yeah so that lends it to already that you know the driveway is probably going to be I don't know 10 ft or so off one of the property lines so if it's in the center we'll be we'll be well enough away from it just by just from designed requirements approval having these curve Cuts taken away so so what you can do is well you have you have some a few different options one is you can say all four curb Cuts can be eliminated as indicated in Doug letter the other option is you could just simply say that no new development on either lot shall have more than one curve cut and then they'll decide when they do the development where that her cut going to be and it shall be compliant with the um the requirements of the city unless further relief relief is requested so are we worried about I what's the temperature here are we worried about there being more curb Cuts in the that left future development or four curb cuts the people to utilize you know land I I would be more concerned of of the ladder myself that you you'd have I mean obviously you have one one car doing it right now saying so the thing is your L of suggestion of like saying you know it can't be no more than four when we get to the development no more than two that's not going to prevent the problem we got to make it contingent upon them taking away the curve Cuts now that have probably been there for 50 years and nobody's code never complain M nobody's ever complained yeah yeah we're just we're just saying that that that we would in the future one per lot no question about yep no question about that they are they are vacant lots too so people if they're in the people don't feel like they're parking in in front of someone's house right and if there weren't curb cuts and somebody want to park on the grass they're going to jump the 2-in curb yeah so we would be okay with that yeah Jeff the way you worded it your option two seems yeah perfect from that perspective each lot shall have no more than one PA of cut that's right one other item from our letter um storm water management so looking at the two lots in all likelihood assuming when they are built out um they would trigger the requirements of a minor development for storm water management purposes um that being said they would be required to um include some form of storm water mitigation uh this is also something that I mean we have it in our letter that um compliance with the storm water control or should be a condition of any approval um so it could be as you know there's no development proposed right now um in the future the the homes that are constructed um would need to take that into consideration to comply with the ordinance so they would have to put in say a dryw or some other some other form of storware mitigation at the time but let let's say that that this development doesn't require any variances is that isn't that normal that's just a normal thing that happens right Doug this is normal that that when there's a development they have to deal with the storm water management MH without they're not coming here so that's just a requirement for when they build or how is this different let me let me just ask that how is it different how is this different you look at a single lot individually or the the two lots together right and in my opinion they should be looked at together the trigger is 1,000 feet square feet either way so in all likelihood even on one lot you're more than likely adding a th000 square feet of verious public but you might not so my point is when you assume the full build out of both Lots I mean they're they're here before us tonight for both Lots or three existing Lots right so they should be look at together right but respectfully I mean we're here for a planning application there's no development proposed to the extent that there is a development proposed in the future we will certainly abide by all ordinances as the councilwoman suggesting um I'm not sure why that's implicated today what Doug is implying is that because you're asking for sub division right across this tract and so the entire tract should be looked at when considering application of the storm water RS I don't know that I agree but um I think we've had one like this I think we're safe either way actually does each since each of these lots are vacant yeah and there's the threshold is a th000 square foot so any building that's going is going to affect each lot well you could you could the lots have a 20 you put in the driveway you you still might be under the other trigger is 5,000 ft of disturbance yeah or 7500 foot Lots so so you've already from a practical standpoint this is what's going to have to happen anyway um we're going to be minor development even if we look at them on individually or together um the other trigger would be under the city's ordinance correct which we would have to do for a plot plan the other trigger would be major development which would be over a quarter acre of impervious to enact of real quote unquote real stormw regulations but your engineers right no matter what we're going to have to go to the Free Soil Conservation District for an individual plot plan because we're definitely going to be disturbing the entire locks are going to be grading it putting lawn in fences what have you so I think on an individual plot plan basis we're going to have to address your ordinance with a dryw for the roof run off or whatever and it's honestly we do this in almost every town now under these new regulations aspbury Park's not unique in that respect anymore um so I think we're safe either way we're definitely going to have over a th square feet each lot being their 7500 Square F feet you're going to have a driveway you're going to have a sidewalk to the to the front someone's going to put a deck on the back or a ptio or something like that it adds up fairly quickly and it's something we do day in and day out where we do the the um mitigation measures to make sure that that storm water doesn't affect the neighbors or or the surrounding area so there's no objection to having it none at all okay so we should add that to the resolution also okay but I'm conf whatever go ahead we're speculating that's right the applicant right now could be here saying I want to subdivide to make two billable lot and I'm going to flip them tomorrow but so why let them incur costs until the new people oh they don't they don't have to incur the cost now it's at the time of development okay so but that like I think what somebody said that happens no matter what applicant comes whenever I mean that's going to be that it's not like somebody could get away without doing that well so as Donna was saying if you come in with a let's say you come with a home that doesn't meet the thousand square feet you put a small driveway in and in all on one lot you don't meet the thousand foot threshold they wouldn't have to comply if you look at it lot by lot right but so suppose they decide to sell these lots to two separate families tomorrow now we're going to tell those two separate families you can only build your house if you get with the other person and your whole you to coordinate together no storm Wonder management is on that lot you have to deal with the stor Management on that lot in that development right but but but let's let's let's think about it what we're talking about here now let's say that that they that that it's built it's not a th000 let say it's 850 so the rest of it is vacant then your storm water is going right into the ground so you don't have to build this extra you know all all the storm water management around that you just have to do it for the 850 you don't have to do the extra steps yeah what I'm trying to say is it's all speculative at this point right no it's absolutely right but you know storm water management is very close to our heart so that's why we're and and you know if we can make a general part of the resolution that says that the applicant will comply to the extent that they need to develop the lot in the future I'm sure my clients will abide by that but I feel like we're putting the cart before the horse um we're here just to draw the redraw the lot lines the lots already exist two of them are undersized we're making it compliant with the ordinance I'm not quite sure we need to get into the minuche of stall Mar at this point no I'm not suggesting though though you though you may be right this is also a learning opportunity for the board certainly to when we get into these kinds of questions that we have to understand also why why would Doug put this in the letter if we don't have to worry about it so there's a reason why they do that there's a reason why our professionals ask these questions and then we learn from that so um I I I I understand I understand that that that's that it's uh putting the cop before the horse um so is anybody is is there any more uh testimony no that's it any other questions by uh our current uh fire planning board any question go ahead com go ahead that a few years back this is for your benefit a few years back there was extensive amount of work done on on the Storm SE system and uh stor waterers change in this sprood Avenue area I don't know if it's extended as far as excuse me but it might be your benefit to look into meet with the Department of Public Works and find out what it is because that storm water management May well have been taken care of in that uh Redevelopment of the utilities years I appreciate that thank you does the do the professionals have anything else that they would like to ask our engineer no um will somebody else be be speaking to the planning document or is is our engineer going to be speaking to that as well I could as a licensed planner I would just say that we're a fully conforming minor subdivision and we meet all all the requirements listed in the uh in the zone can we also ask um Adonna when we're talking about I noticed that on your mention there are Street trees being mentioned Don on your report there is a mention of Street trees wouldn't this normally be done during same as the storm water so it's the same same storm water so our officers in the city would take care of that the only thing we're suggesting is that because it's a very narrow right of way and there's not a lot of room between the you know the curb and the sidewalk the trees should be be in the yard as way so we might need an easement um like a you know shade tree maintenance easement if that's where they are that if they have to be removed or maintained the city can go on the private property and take care of them but that could be done when they come develop have be done as part of the subdivision and then again as part of a condition of the approval when they go to build the house MaryAnn's going to make sure they're planning on putting a street tree on the she's going to check the resolution yes they need a street tree oh it's going to be in the front yard not by the curb and that's when she checks their plot plan before they issue a permit re yeah can can we require that something we can really do if they conform and are essentially allowed to do this I I I agree it would be better in the front yard we we would prefer it in the front yard but can we even ask for that it seems dicey we do it all the time in other places can't they just say it's aned way we put it there anyway well the the the applicants can say that but if they sell the property to someone else does that all that could flow through well that would be part of their due diligence to take whatever they're obligated to I think that the street or I'm sorry the uh environmental commission ordinances uh give the environmental commission jurisdiction over those Street trees as well as trees that were contemplated here I think if you look at the I don't ask with the statute I'm sorry the ordinance number is but uh that falls under the jurisdiction of the environmental commission and it is covered by city ordinance when they're in the right of right and when they are um on private property affecting the right that issue just came up recently and so you can check that um I don't know whether I check that those citations or not yeah I've been in there before we have to take the Tre but I'll talk with them on were concerned about got a better memory than me the church the church the complain well EnV the thing isation we know that other Juris where we have issues where the city might have to go on private property take care a street or on so so when when they actually when development comes in front of not us not us because there probably no Varian so wouldn't they need say hey we need a street tree here okay the zoning officer is to say need right the zoning officer will say need is going to be in property file right right and was going to say yeah you need a street tree on this at development at development it's going to say whatever you know is we decide about the storm water RS right and the limitation about the driveways I think our question is if we say nothing about Street trees when they go to develop either one of these tracks well someone from the city say you're required to have a street tree Sugg no not necessarily you're again look at that property file and go oh this lot was created by a resolution by deed right and the board didn't say anything about whether to make a contribution or to put in a tree but but then so they may say you're not required right but then then could you tell me why you I'm saying not the question too much but the thing is is that why would you say that oh a street tree is required because there's got to be some place where it says a street tree is required 30563 okay so it's required so shouldn't the zoning officer new development right and they will be will be a new development at that time and all right so it should be there the street tree yes but can we tell them now whether it has to be on or off it sounds premature yeah right sounds Prat there will be a street that they Dev do that if they don't give the city in EAS if the tree gets doesn't survive the city can't go and fix it supposed to beefit right we could we could you're saying that we should Grant ative an to the city that says if anything goes wrong with this tree you're allowed to come so that seems like the issue to me is that we asking them to say you know what create an easement so that it doesn't preclude the tree from being on your property in the future it could be that right so that sounds a little bit more reasonable yeah because then then they can decide no we want to put it here no we don't and if they do you have the easement if you don't that sound that sounds within and where's my driveway going to go and where is this where's the treat and where is this would accept it say that again Dan in other words first of all Eastman are you know you can have a map but Eastman by the text right not necessarily and what you can't do with the E and if you put something in the resolution say City you know I don't know accept it because you don't know you don't know how expansive the e that's exactly what you define we're going to say you want to Define now yeah exactly so and maybe I I apologize in other places when we talk about this stuff there are a lot of oh yeah we know we understand there's an expectation in a lot of other towns they do a 10 foot wide or 15 across the entire front across the entire Frontage of the property so that you know it's this um very defined space and certain things can happen within that space and certain things are not allowed to happen in that space and then you assign those rights to do those things to the various benefici whether it's the city or the property owner and again this is so that I mean in other places they do this with Road improvements not just the street tree like they'll build pavement on somebody else's property because they gave a street easement instead of doing a dedication of right ofo and so what you're saying is this to me sounds absolutely horrendously scary but we do that de and and so what you're saying is this would be a 10 let's just call it 10 foot deep that that allows the city to go onto the site and maintain a potential future Street tree period That's don't put the word maintain in because they don't maintain the trees in my house sure sure but to you're right they don't so but it's but it's for that specific thing it's the street treaty that may or may not be there in the future I I I think that that that we're we're getting into we're getting into a the we yeah we're getting a little too far into this we got a simple subdivide right we have a simple subdivide we're thinking about every boogey man in America right and we let's let's be frank that we have four curb Cuts we have a telephone poll and at some point there'll be some trees I depends on where we can fit them but will there be the whole point I know it's in the weeds but will there be trees if we don't say anything yes there will they are required they're they're required they're only required in the right of way of which there is not much space not much room so they'll probably say no so they're going to be kind of on the private property anyway when they dig that hole which is why we're recommending you create this instrument so that everybody knows what they're where they're working some have to draw Listen to me here is here is an applicant taking taking two nonconforming lots and taking three lots two of which are non-conforming and creating two conforming lot yes you it's something you should just the Bur stuff that unless it's delineated down I mean what this EAS is going to be yes it's exactly what we're do with d they have 2 and A2 feet less than two and a half fet between the property line and the sidewalk it's not enough room for a street tree so it's basic I mean it's being um proactive to ensure that there's Street trees in the neighborhood that's all it's doing that's what it's doing that's what you would be doing by drawing a line it's not complicated it's one line it's defined by test there's no reason that there would be there might I mean it's an issue that anyway it's a proactive step to ensure there's Street trees so Donna what are you proposing the width of this easement would B I mean we could probably get by with a 5 foot easement on each lot that gives you seven give you seven Fe to do uh enough room for digging for ball you on the street side and it is just one street tree for a lot right and what's the setback requirement 255 so we're not dealing with with the setback issue not like not like we're forcing them to put the street Tre in the set pack where they can build right it doesn't um keep them from installing any house Improvement talk about all right okay so here we are um so we're looking at to Jen's point is that we're trying to ensure that there are Street trees that that doesn't get overlooked no doesn't have to be built now no it was just it's just whenever some development happens footed five foot dedicat dedication give it up e e um the applicant is uh going to accept a 5 foot easement somewhere on somewhere on the law on the property line exactly along the front of the property from RightWay back 5T that's exactly it is on each lot one on each lot yes okay okay any other questions from the board uh to our just stupid question do we know what the RightWay is now how far it goes into the property it doesn't go into the property what it doesn't go into the property the right are you sure are you 100% sure they gave us Sur okay I I'm not looking at it okay yeah so that's the RightWay ends at the East side of the sidewalk he's asking how far past the sidewalk right go two andet two and a half fet so they got they already got two and a half feet of their five feet correct no adding an additional total seven and a half ft between and that the city owns right away and then 5 foot within their property 2 and 1/2 ft is between the curb and the sidewalk no between the sidewalk and their proper so now the city right away is 7 and2 ft no so so what they're saying is you know it's a curve it's 2 and2 ft grass then the sidewalk then 2 and 1/2 ft of right away and then there Al that's where the prop line starts right at their lawn so their lawn has an extra 2 and2 ft of right away for the sidewalk make any sense you see here so their property line is here and there's another 2 and half grass here then the side then another two and half ft of grass and then so giving them 5et of of the East means they actually have five 7 and 1/2 ft because they can use the 5 ft plus the 2 and2 ft of dri away for the tree so it doesn't lift the sidewalk yeah right so it doesn't lift the sidewalk so that there's a guarantee that there a tree trees end up there that will live one on each one on each lot okay any other questions for the uh for the applicant from the board members from uh the professionals any other questions from the professionals no any questions from the public no um do you have any other um Witnesses no I do not does this conclude your testimony yes it does thank you okay okay um I get a motion to um open up a public comment second motion to close approved second okay there we go any other comment from the board any comments that they'd like to make no okay so can I can I take a shot at this and see where see where we end up go forward okay um there's been a suggestion of three things um that um that we have no more than one curb cut um on the lot on one curb cup for each property when development actually does happen um that we regarding the storm water if we adhere to the thousand foot they it turns into a minor development anyway so I'm not sure if we really have to put anything in there for that because it sounds as though it will be dealt with because if it's under a thousand so the point of that is if it's under a thousand on both Lots yes they don't have to deal with it right if it's over a th which Doug is looking at this as today and it's if it's over a thousand but but these I I while I understand I think and and the board can chime in here we don't know what's going to happen to these Lots if they're going to stay together if they're going to be separated who knows what's going to happen with these Lots yeah then you're trying one lot to the other two separate own no no no each lot would have to have its own storm water compliance just it's not they sell one lot and I want to go ahead I buy one lot and I want to go go ahead and develop so right but the other Lots not developed so I come in front of the board and I'm under a th000 feet you don't have to come before the board subdivision is already approved they don't have to come back to the board no but the zoning officer will enforce it right the zoning officer has to enforce whatever the rules are based on how much the development just so everybody is on the same go ahead the requirement that that that they need comply with it it's triggered by either 1,000 ft of new impervious or 5,000 ft of disturbance disturbing ground yes about so the lots that they are creating are each 7500 square feet so they have to they're going to disturb them they're going to have to comply with storm water unless you know they can yes there's the chance they could submit a plan that shows the limit of disturbance being less than 5 ,000 and I'm saying it's possible that's why disturbance what is disturbance if you lay down new saw as disturbance you take up the if you scrape before you put down the that would be disturbance on Earth regardless I don't understand why we would these people are making two conforming Lots out of unconforming lots why would we hold them to a higher standard than any other lot in asry park right what are we tying them together we I I I don't think that we can tie them together all right so I think the consensus from the board is that each new lot would be Standalone developed when they are developed they just have to comply with whatever the ordinance is for any other lot anywhere else in this town tweak in under a th000 square fet of impervious and 5,000 sare feet of disturbance then yay for them they can just have their roof leaders dump on the ground and if not then they need to comply with mment requir it's no no different than any other lot okay in Asbury Park unless the board feels differently that it's not any different than any other lot in Asbury Park okay I don't I though though I want you to continue to put this in the reports putting it out there I think it's a good thing for us to know but you know blocking these two lots that's what's different about this and um how does the and the the other thing was how does everybody feel about the the easement with the potential of a tree on each lot because that is something that's requested that that that guarantees that there's a tree somewhere on this lot whether it be I'm not thrilled with it but the applicant agreed to it and Jen made a good point like I think she did make a good point yet guarantees the tree so and the applicant agreed with it so yeah put it there okay and that's that's all I have does anybody else have anything else do you have anything else uh Jeff yes so it'll be reported by De as the applicant indicated um they will um put in monumentation however agreed to that um what does that mean put in monumentation rather than just a pin they actually have to put a monument on the okay DET where the start ofer okay great some goes around and steals them I've got to my backyard oh they'll get the um lot they'll get conf confirmation from the tax assessor for the lot numbers yes and if necessary they'll be responsible for any connection fees right and they and they they've agreed to anything that's in the engineering report and in the plan okay all right can I get a motion for approve approval based on all the uh items that we just spoke about with Jeff second [Music] okay James bonano yes councilwoman Clayton yes Eric alipo yes Jim Henry yes mayor Moore yes Daniel sheno yes Jennifer saer yes Vice chair goonan yes chairwoman KAC yes thank you for your time thank you for your patience good luck I luck can I buy one okay um can I get a motion to adjourn second all in favor hi none opposed no good night good night thank you