##VIDEO ID:NA2I8Bzil30## I appreciate welcome everyone today is Tuesday December 10th 2024 and this is a regular meeting of the city of Asbury Park Zoning Board of adjustment chairman avalone will you please call this meeting to order I'd be happy too this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 197 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the coaster in Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on the municipal bulletin board and Municipal website all notices are on file with the board's secretary official action may be taken on the following matters before this board and this meeting is being recorded by APV and I ask everyone with a cell phone to please mute it for the duration of this meeting okay roll call um Wendy Glassman is absent this evening Daniel Harris here Russell Lewis Here Natalie pasini here Jill Potter here Tim slick here Vice chair Scully here and chairman avalone here all right just a quick housekeeping issue um I will make a motion to approve the resolution of 1118 Summerfield Avenue a second okay eligible members um Daniel Harris yes Russell Lewis yes Tim slick yes Jill powder yes Vice chair Scully yes and chairman Abalone yes all right so we're going to have an executive session um I'll read the resolution into the minutes whereas njs 2 colon 4-12 the open public meeting act permits the exclusion of the public from a meeting of the board in certain circumstances and whereas the board hereby moves to close the public hearing and convene and closed executive session in order to discuss staff appointments for 2025 pursuant to njs 2 col 4-12 B8 which is permitted by the provisions of the op public meetings act and whereas it is anticipated at this time that the above matter will be made public at the conclusion of the discussions between the board and the members of the board staff now therefore be resolved this the by the city of Asbury Park zoning Board of adjustment that will hereby close the public portion of this meeting in order to convene in private executive session for the reasons set forth above I make a motion to adopt the forging resolution second Daniel Harris yes Russell Lewis yes Natalie Pini yes Jill Potter yes Tim slick yes Vice chair Scully yes chairman Abalone yes all right we'll be back if we can get back to order everybody sure um I will now take roll call um Daniel Harris yes Russell Lewis Natalie pasini Joel cter here Tim SLI here Vice shair scl here and chairman alone here all right so we have two applications tonight uh one that we prior we've heard prior 126 comto Street um um Mr hirsh welcome back happy holidays thank you same to you and the board and could you give us a quick quick synopsis of where we were and where we are now I will uh at the first meeting we presented testimony Mr baleta as the uh site engineer he went through a lot of the testimony as to the uh um variances related to um the setbacks indic ating distances surrounding homes surrounding properties you know we don't intend to repeat any of that tonight most the board has a question about it uh thought that was pretty clear hopefully persuasive uh uh after going through that we uh we had our uh our architect uh begin to testify what the board had concerns about the um elevations of the home essentially on the uh requirements under the uh design requirements under the ordinance there was several not met some met there was some discussion about the application previously approved in that architecture and comparison Etc uh so we took that as the board having strong feelings about the architecture so we carried the application um to uh go back to the drawing board and the architect has worked very hard with the applicant and uh you've seen I guess the new plans we're going to go through them uh tonight of course but uh the major change being the full front porch instead of before you may recall was flush with the house a portion of a front porch uh so to speak we appreciate the changes you have made Mr you and your applicant thank you uh there was also several other changes uh to meet uh Suggestions by the board or the board engineer report uh we uh the dwelling now which was at 6 feet the side of the house is now at 11 ft uh the uh coverage building coverage went from uh 46.6 to 44.8 uh the driveway was extended to be 7 ft from the rear property line as requested there was some other technical items such as removal of the gate in front of the driveway uh that was all done a few of the other technical engineering matters uh concerning drainage and so on and so forth which have been filed and uh have been submitted so Mr Freda of course think is was satisfy but if he has any comments I'm sure we're going to hear hear from Mr Freda uh so what I'd like to uh how I'd like to proceed tonight um well I think the architecture is obviously from the last meeting a critical element I'd like Mr beleta to cover essentially three items uh that are in the report um that should shouldn't take very long hopefully very concisely but there was questions asked by the planner uh you know about F slighting and u a couple other things so I just want Mr beleta to cover those and then we would bring up the architect to go through the new architecture plan that you've seen and our our planner will he'll sounds like a plan uh for the record not only uh ferini was not in attendance at the last meeting she is tonight and she advised me that she did review the hearing tape uh the 22nd so she would be eligible not only to participate to vote but as well vote as well and I will get a certification for her to sign is that correct yes thank you for that all right I appreciate it John is your first witness yes I'm recall all right John please raise your right hand I always re swear everyone just saw me swear airm that the testimony about to give this SM with the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir okay just state your name for the record and spell it John baleta B L T Za okay and Mr H before you proceed I have my staff's one in please raise your right hands s the S affirm testimony about this matter the truth no truth nothing do I you state your name for the names for the record and your affiliation with theard TNA Miller board planner Jerry Freda board engineer thank you okay yours thank all right uh John as I said I you submitted revised plans as I've indicated U so the board and Mr Freda would have had a chance to review those from an engineering perspective correct yes okay uh there was three issues raised I think in the planers report that I wanted you to uh uh touch base on one which I mentioned was the extension of the driveway uh that the board had mentioned because Varan were uh the cars essentially in the front being parked in the front yard because they were forward forwarded the house so there suggestion we had more room in the backyard to extend the driveway and the plan was y done to reflect that so uh that was well these three items are from the latest planner letter dated November 21st 2024 the first item is on page 6 number 3.5 about the driveway the the ribbon driveway was extended 3 feet towards the east uh it now terminates 7 ft from the Eastern property line uh therefore using a parking space size of 8 1/2 ft by 18 ft uh which specifies minimum parking space size ordinance section 3059 uh2 v.1 this will allow two cars to park to the north on the north side of the residence in the ribbon driveway and the front car the front of that parking spot would be 1 foot to the east of the new front porch so almost even with the new front porch about 1 foot to the East and also that would be 4 feet to the west of the actual building to 5 foot front porch uh so just quickly this increased the proposed lock coverage from 50.6% % to 50.9% however it's the blck coverage is still uh less than the maximum permitted uh by uh of the maximum of 65% permitted uh by 14.1% all right the second one uh comment that I want you to address is 3 paragraph 3.7 the planner report uh indicating that uh the fence that we shown um that we did not and not provided all the information in terms of the details uh location where the fence height changes from 6t to 4T on the uh norly and southerly property lines and the dimensioning required one for set F and that's on page six of the planner letter uh item number 3.7 we have two different styles of the proposed fence one's 4ot High open picket fence another one is a 6t high solid uh vinyl fence uh and I'm going to briefly explain what the proposal is and these are shown on sheet three of the plans the fence is in red and the fence text is in Red so uh if you want to zero in on that uh so starting at the Northwestern property line we're proposing 25 ft to the east a 4ot High open picket fence to basically the end of the first parking spot at that point the fence switches to a 6ot solid vinyl fence to the Eastern property line the 6ot solid vinyl fence continues along the Eastern property line to the alley right away and then it switches back to the 4ot open 4ot high open picket fence along the alley right of way for 55 fet to comto Street and it stays 4ot open picket for another 36 ft to an open picket gate uh to a corner at the front of the building and it finally about 6 ft ends at the corner the North corner of the front porch That's our proposal at at this time so just to clarify the along the alley the length of the alley is going to be all 4ot open fence correct approximately 50 linear feet 50 okay um and then uh um I believe I had another comment about the fencing um so along the front property line which will be the um West that needs to be at least one foot off the property line so we make sure that complies yes okay uh and then back to the driveway um I'm sorry how many feet did you say uh in front of the house four feet the car would stick out in front of the facade correct even with the front porch building line with the facade yeah um so that's 4T okay and then do you have an objection to putting something at the at the easterly end to prevent people from driving off the ribbons into what's left of the reiv we'll comply with that we'll put the uh uh wheel stop that you asked for yeah uh okay okay the next one I wanted to address Don if you're done it with the lighting uh comment in your plan in your report okay last one11 311 very quickly page 7even number 3.11 lighting uh we will provide an image of the proposed scon light and revise the note on the detail sheet to state that two locations for the lights are required not three they used to be a light on the center of the second floor porch and the first floor porch and one at the northern sliding glass windows but since the second floor porch is gone there's only two locations I neglected to update that on the details so we'll do that all right that's the there's a couple of architectural comments in the plan is report which will address for the architect by the way John what are you testifying from this is a Revis uh this is the plan that I had uh submitted that give me your last revision date 116 24 yeah that was after the last meeting yeah no that's fine I just need to reference it sure in the record understood if I could uh one one comment [Applause] there's uh the side entrance where the stairs are since you're uh well under your uh lock coverage calculation did you consider running the concrete slab out to from the step out to the ribbon we could we'd ask for a caveat or waiver design waiver because we're only about uh 9 Square ft under the 1,000 square ft of added impervious area and if if if we do that we'll trigger that more than 1,000 square ft thereby actually making the development what's called minor development now it does not even meet the threshold of minor because we're at about 900 let's say 990 Square fet it's not going to make much difference from storm water runoff so we'd be happy to do that so if the board would would like to see that it would it would just give someplace to uh walk from the cars not all the cars but at least the car parked towards the front into the house without walking through the grass and I didn't realize why you hadn't done that in the first place so coupled with a different comment in the planner letter which ask for a 3ot level area of Refuge outside of the sliding glass doors prior to the steps We'll add that and then we'll put a concrete pad out to the driveway straight out it's only a few Square fet yeah it's not a lot it's 5T wide the stairs and you're talking what maybe 8 ft to I don't have to scale on about 8T I have a dimension it's about eight it's less than that it's 6.2 ft from the house uh so it's about 7t from the house would be about 5 ft right so it be 25 Square ft of concrete which practicality makes a lot of sense to put that in the board would agree I appreciate that thank you Jerry um just to clarify Mr bleta uh the downspouts will collect the water we be collected from the downspouts uh and the water will be exiting towards com stock yes uh sheet four the grading planet has the downspout locations uh they the down spouts on the north side of the house they have about a 2% grade toward comto Street and also on the east side they head toward the alley all the runoff goes towards the right of away there's no additional runoff to any adjacent properties I appreciate that thank you goodby you Jerry yes okay any other further questions for Mr beleta I just I have a question can you just cover the fence one more time is there a fence across the front of the party um across the front of the property yes and how far off of the sidewalk is at um cuz the house is only what is it down 11 ft yes the house is 11 ft and the front porch is 6 feet from the property line Sorry 5T is the fence necessary in the front of the house the African had wanted a a fenced there is a 4ot wide sidewalk at about 4T to the property line another foot to the fence uh the front of the fence along com St street is 36 ft from the corner of the alley up to the corner of the house and then another 6 ft roughly from com Street to the corner of the porch the property it's about TI it's about 4 and 1/2 ft from the sidewalk yeah it just makes the front yard even smaller it makes it appear smaller it makes it feel closed in just sharing my thoughts I tend to agree with Miss pter I looked at houses with similar designs to which on my street on Ridge Avenue and um if you were to put a fence there it would look tight you have you don't have enough space to make it tight it gives more a cleaner look and what purpose does the fence serve for fo fence it's a good question because it doesn't enclose the entire property still going around and they have the backyard yeah totally enclosed and on your plans that we were provided it doesn't have it and it looks it just looks clean it's not depicted in your rendering in the rendering in the rendering sorry yeah you can find two other ones right down the street yep right across the street there's a similar layout without it in front understood all right we'll take that under advisement right now until we hear from the other test I know we REM there was a gate on the driveway that was removed and that was the comment we I don't recall that comment at the last meeting but we'll take that under advisement thank you and there is one gate at the front walkway in that fence we're talking about removing at the at the front walk the removal of the fence will also make it much easier to cut the grass yeah and remove the smoke [Applause] AG that's all I have for Mr B does anybody else have any questions for Mr beleta on the board board professionals any further questions um I just want to confirm because I apologize I wasn't at the first meeting and this did not come up uh in the notes from Michael but um is uh all are all of the utilities going to be underground serving the house say that again are are all of the utilities serving the house going to be underground all of them and there's an option on the electric off the back on I believe there's an option on the electric let me just take a look at sheet four [Music] [Applause] yes they're all underground except uh we're showing up proposed overhead or underground electric telephone and cable TV service lines from the utility pole it's about 10 ft from the corner of the building right there and have you or your Cent had any conversations yet preliminarily with jcpnl I mean the there's a service line that runs across the property to the house on on Fifth is that going to be problematic for construction is it uh it's close to you know where the edge of the house is going to be there is a there's an overhead utility line from that same telephone [Applause] pole and we have a note on the demolition plan the wire goes from the pole at the alley to the house to the north and we have a note on the demolition plan that says relocate wires away from lot 11 as required for construction lot 11 being power lot but we don't know what that means really physically relocate well they could uh they could put a another pole in relocate the alignment they could go underground they could come from a different Transformer it's up to jcpnl if required we don't know if it's required are there any other houses on the street with underground electric excuse me I'm sorry are there any other houses on the street with underground electric I don't know I'm showing a lot of overhead electric on our plan even in the vicinity there's one coming across the alley I believe uh the lot to the north does have overhead as well yeah it's coming from the alley from that pole that's on the corner of your property yeah so you know it's one of those things we don't have a whole lot of control over as the board but um you know in an effort to um not have excess overhead wires and conflicting things on people's property um I don't know I just I would recommend that um that they work with jcpnl to um you know try and minimize the overhead Crossing on their property to the extent that they can well it only makes sense from what you you know I mean just like when we had um on Grand right and we had the same issue with gr you know God these people want to do something in the future and or the people on the corner a conversation should at least be had yeah with jcpnl I I think Don has made a good point um I we can't require you to do that but but it sounds like a good idea I mean what can I suggest at this time uh you know except that we will discuss with jcpnl those alternatives to the extent that can reasonably be accommodated um obviously we have cooperate with that a hot wire above the house or or anywhere getting close to the house that's being built right jcpnl is uh well how could I put it we're on TV they they own blanket easements for their wires over the properties uh so if their Foreman doesn't think that the line should be moved the poll should be moved they'll they'll say they'll move it sometimes but they'll give you a high price I I understand what you're saying Mr balleto but I think it has been discussed prior developments yeah that they've had discussions with jcpnl we be happy to talk to them sure yeah moving polls is I mean we're happy to help you stronger them if we can but I think every single person on the board probably has some sort of at least tangental experience with somebody else's wires on your property right well in this town everything is right next to each other so well no when I lived on forth they had the power lines that ran through the backyards MH in my block so yeah we just didn't want to get in moving utility poles which probably take a year and a half to get it done and gets very very expensive you know actually any way we can reasonably this you've indicated willness to discuss it with them yes we'll discuss it with them and as I said any reasonable accommodation we can make I don't okay I can't speak for the client saying it's going to cost you $10,000 to move a poll it take a year and a half I mean I think's been covered no I agree any further questions for Mr beleta board professionals anything further no all right I'll open it up to the public uh anyone in the public for Mr beleta specifically his testimony tonight if you do have questions please go to the mic state your name and address for the record hello everyone my name is uh Spencer I live at 1018 5th Avenue I'm the neighbor that you see on the plan right over there um Spencer what's your full name oh I'm sorry Spencer pelis I'm a homeowner and Resident at the house behind I didn't receive a notice about the first variance meeting otherwise I would have been there as well uh I come discussing my brother owns that house with me my mom owns the house next door and we come kind of uh discussing grievances of just well I shouldn't say gas concerns of uh just house okay so this is not a grievance this is this is about any questions you have for Mr beleta specific to his testimony right now you can comment all you like at the end but right now it's just questions for Mr beleta understood uh how how much space between the house and my property would there be because I know the plan that I saw was originally 3 feet is that still standing uh you clarify which sure I'm sorry the 1018 which is the north the north side corner house the one next to it actually I would be the corner fif and comto so I would be right here so pretty much like where would this be standing this is my yard and then how much space off of your property line with the uh ft for the [Music] plan what was that what did you say Don just over 18 ft and we did cover those set facts the last year I understand not from our house to property okay and how tall does the house [Applause] stand uh two and a half stories was it okay okay thank you thank you anybody else in the public for Mr beleta thank you Mr Bel thank you call your next thank you Mr chairman call our architect back to the stand okay Patra Rosado sir please raise your right hand sarir testimony about this matter truth the whole truth and the truth I do you state your name for the record and spell it yes Pedro Rosado uh p i e t r o r o s a t o [Applause] thank you set all right U all right so P obviously there's a new plan uh substantially different from the uh plan it was before the board at the last hearing yes um and you have on the board rendering of that house which has been submitted to the board that's correct I know that you need to mark that as a separate exhibit yeah if it's something new let's mark well it's been filed at the board no if there's going to testify from it I'd like to yeah sure sure okay uh do you know we're A4 at A4 thank you for the record we just marked an exhibit A4 explain so the record is clear what A4 is um it's a rendering of the front and side of of the of the structure that we're proposing all right before I get into going through the architecture with you and the FL plans there was a couple of questions raised in the planner's report I wanted to wanted you to address uh the planner's report noted that based on the changes no design exceptions are required from section 30- 64.4 now we discussed a lot in detail at the prior hearing however uh she does note that uh the design of the eaves and roof overhang is not consistent uh with traditional proportions requesting the roof should overhang the porch columns rather than terminating at the top of the column would you address that yes uh so we are uh actually proposing to extend the E uh in the front and possibly a little bit on the side uh actually of the of the porch the overhang on the side a little bit how deep is the porch 5 ft 5 ft uh but in the front um we're actually going to it's not depicted in the rendering but we're going to include a uh a dropped beam which is uh architecturally correct U and extended so how how far will you extend it uh about 16 in yeah that's does that that's a good amount okay especially with that exposure to the South they'll get better shading and and obviously and also because we don't have so much yard in the front that 16 in it's it's it's a good amount no but for your style house too you don't want the they're not it's not appropriate for the really long Eaves with the brackets and uh thank you the second comment before you get into the uh or plan and your drawings uh deal with the issue about the fireplace gas fired fireplace um which I guess would be you vented um it would be to the rear um so would you just explain it when it's vented how far vented out Etc it's a direct vent out on to the the rear as as [Music] [Applause] you and it it would only U project out about maybe less than six Ines into the rear yard okay so um that's that's the extent to to answer your question your comment all right now uh obviously there was a lot of discussion at the prior meeting especially about uh changing the facade of the house the uh elevation uh concerning the uh front porch so why don't to start just with what changes were made the last plan to the exterior uh in terms of elevations Etc and then we'll get into the interior okay yeah for so the main the main uh as you could tell from the rendering office it's it's clear um fairly clear uh we just eliminated the bump out that was in the front with the Gable uh facing uh ptock and we just uh included a front porch That's the the length of the house the entire length of the house and 5 foot deep uh we also raised uh you know the porch uh and included the steps that you guys uh had commented on um so uh with a railing in the front railing in at the porch um and um and that's all right now just uh go through if you will the layout of the first second FL so we can just have sat on the record exactly how it's set up so um so we on the first floor um as you walk up on the porch main entrance is right on the front in the center of the house um first floor level is approximately 1,82 ft and uh you enter right into a dining room space which is open to the kitchen and living room/ family room area uh we also have uh stairs onto the left side of the house and a new and a study with a powder room uh right in the center of the of the plan should I go we talked about the entrance or porch or whatever before right with the putting a landing in and the cement that Mr fra brought up would be on that side yeah so from the family room from the family room you we do have uh this new um fireplace which is direct Ved uh and we do have these French doors uh going onto a landing and then steps going onto the side um onto the driveway all right and then which actually would address um the engineers uh comment that he had I think that would uh that work yeah the plans would have to be consistent yes yes that that's correct I think that is a code requirement that that Landing be there when yes because it's more than two steps all right and going from the first floor to the second floor uh on the second on to the second floor as you walk up uh the stairs you have a uh washer and dryer laundry closet you have a master bedroom suite with a master bathroom and a walk-in closet uh on of the on the front portion on the front of the house and you have two bedrooms on to on the back with a the middle all right and uh is there a half story in this house yes there is a half story the story includes a bedroom and a one bathroom all right and what's the uh proposed uh materials so the propos materials is uh clapboard vinyl siding um vinyl FL Windows um we also have a PVC trim at the for corner boards uh freeze boards and around the windows and doors um we have composite railing the porch uh and composite deck material uh we have asphalt roof shingles at the roof and aluminum daers and can you talk a I'm sorry can you talk a bit about the foundation and crawl space and what's going on underneath the first floor a bit the foundation is a it's a crawl space it's uh it's about 2 feet high or and where's the access to that uh the access it's uh it's through I believe to the side we have access panels on to the side uh to access it that's uh that's all you need we're going to obviously where are you putting your Mechanicals Mechanicals the engineer actually has uh some the mechanical the plan showing it in his plans we can the northeast corner of the house about 5 ft from the property line show sheet [Music] four I believe is right next to the EXC to the side of the steps that we're proposing that's where the HV HVAC is going where is the furnace going uh the furnace uh not too sure uh but we're oh it's um in the Attic I'm sure it's it's going to be in the attic space or part of it at least can we get a definitive answer on that yes add attic going once going twice all right [Applause] soat essentially now before we went through a lot of photographs of the nature of the character of the neighborhood the types of homes and architecture which obviously the board is extremely familiar with uh the board had their comments in your opinion now does this proposed architectural design uh fit in with the character or the we believe it does now we we've tried to uh take all of your comments from last time into consideration and uh you know the front porch uh we eliminated that pumped out I think that that was Major move uh in the design Aesthetics and the architecture of the of the of the house um and the neighboring property so so um we've increased the front yard um you know from 6 ft at the bump out before now it's 11 ft so the front actual front faade of the house it's 11 ft um so it gives a little bit more uh free space in a way in the front um as a geometry as a as a large of geometry So yeah thank you that's all the questions I have right now is the vapor barrier going to be under the entire I mean the vapor barri I'm sorry the co space under the entire house right yes is there any tot of vapor barrier for condensation coming up in yes and what would that Vapor Barrier be made of uh Vapor Barrier yeah it's going to be a a plastic uh Vapor Barrier uh we're going to do a probably a 4in concrete on top of that as well okay um it's called a rat slab um so that's what called so um so that's what it's okay on top of the paper barrier obviously with well div wire Fabric and so thank you very much any questions for Mr Rosado no bo professional any questions no just to confirm no second floor balcony no that was just a eror from last sorry all right I'll open it up to the public for Mr Rado anybody in the public who would like to question Mr vado's testimony all right thank you sir thank you caller last witness or planner okay John Ty you know sir do Sal affirm the testimony not giv this man truth all truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name for the record to spell it all right my name is John taen T is Thomas a i k is and Kelly i n a I'm a licensed planner in the state of New Jersey I have been since like completed my studies at Ruckers University in 1992 I've spent the majority of my uh 32e career uh doing this testifying for applicants before uh boards throughout New Jersey about 180 of them so far I've never been here thank you we accept your credentials Mr thank you your license my license is current and in good standing it was renewed on uh May 7th which I was asked last month what the date was I didn't get to ask any questions any c at all I'm sorry Tom they seem to be ready to listen quickly I don't know that that could be made so you uh your firm uh and has been retained to uh provide uh planning testimony to support this applications andon I correct correct and uh you're familiar with the property in question yes I am and would you explain to board what else you've done in terms of preparing yourself to uh provide opinion and testimony concerning the application so I had the opportunity review the plans or review the notes from last meeting as well as uh your ordinance and master plan um as all the review letters um so the best thing about this application coming to the end is I I think it's very very clear um that the applicant listened very very well uh to the concerns of the board and uh that you know the boards uh are the ones that know the towns the best and I know in every all the case law that read that's the first thing you see is the judges defer to the boards because you know your community's best and I think the applicant did an outstanding job of listening uh to the board and making sure that we ended up with a home here uh that is uh harmonious with the neighborhood uh we do need uh a couple of variances uh one for front yard setback 11 ft wor 25 ft is required for maximum building coverage 44.8% uh where 30% is required uh we also had previously granted variances uh for undersized lot Etc I'm not going to rehash the uh you the case with doar I'm sure we did all the buy sell all that good stuff to make sure that uh you know all the steps for an under isolated undersiz lot were taken care of in the 2018 approval and they carry forward to tonight and again I think the house um is is appropriately cited on the lot um being closer to the Lane consistent with the driveways that are along the lane as well as the house across the lane um we're kind of uh kind of splitting the difference if you will uh between our neighbors we have a neighbor to the South who's about 6 feet set back from comto our neighbor to the north is about 13 ft so uh we're coming in in the middle there at 11 again providing for a a nice balance um likewise uh even with the fence I think with our with our uh conforming 4ft picket fence that's really continuing Mr pel's Fence from the north uh so he has an attractive white pick fence that comes down uh from the north and uh we wanted to continue that along our Frontage again really setting forward what is a conforming uh and very attractive uh look the balance of the fences on the block are either non-conforming or chain link so I think again setting that standard uh for that for the for that block and for the neighborhood I think is is a very good thing in terms of advancing the Harmony and and really continuing Mr pel's property the north there there's lovely I think picking up elements of that continuing it to the South uh really is is a good design uh element then in terms of design design exceptions uh we do need uh an exception for the location of the parking where we do project as we said that 4 feet into the front yard um but we did push it back as far as we can again some of that uh is a function of lot and again that the standard there is that it's impractical uh for the applicant to fit 36 ft of parking into 50 ft of Lo lot with setbacks Etc so we've done the best we can uh further compliance would be impractical so uh we think that it it is we think that it uh always got to wait for the second one don't let that deter you it it depends in Point Pleasant they make you stop they won't let you keep talking when the train goes by um so in terms of uh in terms of our variances these are C variances um I think uh for um for our 2C variances for front setback and uh for building coverage building coverage is certainly a C1 variance uh it's driven by the small size of a lot seminal cases Lang V nor CW Lang V North Caldwell and I only cite cases in terms of they provide the road map for the board in terms of of what is uh sustained in terms of a grant of a variance and Lang V nor C well again it says that an improvement for an applicant even though your your lot is strange or unders sized or oddly shaped your improvement can be a normal size and shape and I think that this is a a modest house that is designed appropriately to fit into the neighborhood and would certainly meet that standard um in terms of our front setback I think that's a C2 variance where the benefit outweighs any detriments again we're fitting into the harmony of the neighborhood calman be be Warren is that is that case where it's specifically said providing for a variance that fits that the new property of the new Improvement into the neighborhood is certainly uh supported in terms of the planning for for the grant to that variance um so uh we think again by providing for uh the home with the design uh modifications that have been made to be uh much more compatible with the neighborhood uh that we're certainly advancing um those uh those elements um certainly we need to advance some of the purposes of Municipal landus law with either our C2 our C variances in this instance I think providing uh G providing sufficient space and appropriate location for a variety of uses in accordance to their environmental requirements and I promoting a desirable visual environment through good Civic design and Arrangement uh I think both of those are being Advanced here uh it certainly is is an appropriate location uh for a single family home and a single family neighborhood uh the neighborhood is actually lovely uh and more Investments uh in the neighborhood is only going to continue to elevate the standard uh here in North asra Park uh and then finally uh with all your variances you know uh we do have negative criteria uh we can't have a substantial detriment of public good we can't have any substantial impairment to your Zone plan or your master plan uh so in this instance uh we're not having any detriment to our public good uh we're fitting the the design into the character of the neighborhood uh we're not obnoxious use we're a single family home in a single family neighborhood we're exactly what's supposed to be there it is a modest uh proposal that is appropriately cited on this modest lot and it will be an asset to the neighborhood um our lighting or storm water all those things are controlled appropriately uh lighting is minimal storm water flowing uh to the right ways and away from our neighbors uh in terms of our master plan not having an impairment we believe we're advancing um some of your planning goals to enhance the quality enjoyment of the city's residential neighborhoods um that promotes quality of life and minimizes negative impacts on on the city's tourism and other economic activities so again we have an investment in the neighborhood that's going to contribute to the quality of that neighborhood uh we have land use objectives we're advancing are to maintain and enhance the character of these single family neighborhoods um and re to support and reinforce these uses to protect and preserve established residential character um and I believe again we're doing all those things mainly through listening to the board and taking your advice in terms of what the appropriate character for that neighborhood would be I talked about the design exception in terms of uh that it would be impractical um to try and fit 36 ft of parking into that uh into that Dimension um and we think the board as the so for those reasons I believe the board has the ability to grant their Lea requested avel for your questions that's all I have of the direct test thank you Mr hirs thank you Mr tyan does anyone have any questions for Mr Tan's planning report board professionals anybody in the public have any questions okay thank you so at this point we'll move to comments by the public so I'll will open it up for General comment by anybody in the public please go to the mic State either whether you're for or against this application and your reasons why and you have four minutes to make your statement state your name and address for the record my name is uh Spencer pelis I live at 1018 5th Avenue I also I'm son of the neighboring house 1016 fth Avenue I own that house with my brother I think the most concerns came down to uh the intrusiveness of the house you know I mean the plan that I saw was 3 feet off the property line so you got to be sworn I can't see you sure please raise your record I'm sorry it's my error you saw me swear firm the testimony you're about to give this matter with the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir okay sorry for that thank youe retake start from the top start again no I'm only kidding go ahead um so I mean I'm happy to see that it was 17 ft is much more reasonable than 3 feet off the back poerty line thank you for directing all water away from my basement that almost flooded once at the asway park flood so appreciate that but um I guess the more concern was a bit of the Privacy aspect too just having another two and a half story home back to back that close to each other um I don't know what a conclusion would be for it but it was just kind of a concern I'm not sure if it's standard practice uh in our neighborhoods to have the houses that close to each other you know I mean we have tenants that live upstairs we have Windows that face that like our shower faces the same direction which I know you can get blinds and everything but just you know a matter of we're out in the backyard like you know neighbor staring down looking at you and stuff like that you can make your comments but we're not going to comment my first my first town meeting if you couldn't tell um yeah that's everything thank you for listening thank you hello now I know is s firm testimony back given this matter the truth all truth and not back truth okay please state your name and address from there please hi I'm Heather fer uh I live at 1018 uh fth Avenue as well then uh North to the property um one of the comments I wanted to say is I really appreciate that the board uh took the variances into consideration and came to a reasonable conclusion um I think that the proposed plans that have been changed uh from The Originals uh do match the aesthetic of the town compared to the uh the first one um I do agree with the privacy fence when it comes to the front of the property um if that could be taken into consideration as well um I think that that would be fantastic but um other than that um I think that this makes a lot more sense uh for the block especially taking into consideration the um property to the South and uh to the West um as kind of like a model of what this uh part of Comstock looks like so can you please just clarify what you mean by the fence oh sorry the four foot the 4 foot um you're talking about in the front of the house are for that or against that no I I agree with you guys saying that like having the 4 foot uh fence um on the front edge of the property yeah um may make it look a little closed off um that's one of my concerns especially if it's going to be like a vinyl 4ot uh fence like that because if you go to the next block North closer to the school um I cannot recall any of the properties uh that do look similar uh single or multi family having that sort of fencing uh so it would stick out a little bit like a sore thumb but I did um want to raise that as well thank you for the clarification thank you anyone else in the public for comment either for or against this application all right I'll close public session public comment session and come back to you Mr H do you have any you need a motion for that I make a motion to close public comment I'll second all in favor I any oppos I have thank you so do you have any final comments Mr hir well I think we've tried to do everything the board that we could that the board asked us to do at the prior hearing uh we did away with the design violations um under the ordinance uh we came up I think with the architectural design that it's uh consistent with the neighborhood and the front porch and the various other elements I won't go through them all you've heard the testimony I'm not going to repeat all the testimony but I think we've hit on all of those we've given substantial reasons for the uh uh variances the two variances really front set back building coverage when you have a lot this size it's uh quite a task to come in with only two of those kinds of variances to get a single family home on those lots so I think you know the planners the engineer the architect have done a good job in and trying to do uh come up with the best possible plan for this size lot and without creating any substantial detriment to the surrounding properties whatsoever so we think we've covered all of that uh I think there's been an issue raised about the fence along the front I don't have my client here unfortunately but um they wanted the fence if the board feels they don't want to approve it with the fence that's up to the board's discretion you've heard the planner he thinks it's consistent with the fencing down from the other property he doesn't think it's out of place I'll just leave it up I'll leave it up to the board I mean I don't have the authority to tell you my client wants to remove the fence he obviously wanted uh that fence for his whatever athetic reasons he had other than that I don't think there's any other issues or disagreement if I'm missing any you can tell me but I don't believe so I think we've complied with every other element that we could possibly comply with he said we will have a discussion with jcpnl to do the best we can um so with that I think we've carried our burdens of proof to have this application approved thank you thank you Mr hirs all right we'll go to board deliberation does anybody want to make any comments on the board I just want to thank you and your professionals and your applicant for listening I'm sorry I'm sorry I just want to thank you and your board Prof and your professionals and the applicant for listening to the board's concerns and sometimes it can be a little overwhelming um but I think in the end the product that you've shown us here today is a better product for the neighborhood so thank you thank you yeah I would have to agree I I really appreciate the quick turnaround you guys did and you really incor you did listen and you Incorporated um very important elements and I really really appreciate that um I don't have any issues from a zoning perspective um you know personally I don't understand some design elements of this home and why there are no I mean there's there's no cupboard space downstairs there's no place to put anything I don't it's a beautiful home and it's actually really welld designed the bedrooms are welld designed the bathrooms are welld designed but there's no service area there's no place to put anything in the kitchen there's no down you know there's no back of house and I just don't see how a five bedroom home with potentially this number of people living in here is going to be able to live in here comfortably it looks like a short-term rental property to me or it looks like barely a weekend home so I'm concerned that the interior house is not going to create another Resident or another neighbor for me cuz I live a block away I don't think it is it's not designed that way I'm not going to deny this application based on that but I do have concerns thanks for your your comments and your concerns The Architects here see if internally anything can be it's not designed to live in as a five-bedroom home it's designed as a weekend or short-term rental is really what it it says to me design was I don't think that was the intent of the developer but I understand your point it may not be the intent but um it is it is not designed for people to live in there's there's there's just no place where are you putting a boogie board I know I don't know anyway I can't answer any of I I I do appreciate the changes that were made and I am uh I'm in favor of it thank you so I will also lend my approval of of the design changes that you guys have made um you did listen to us about the front of the house um specifically my concern about the front porch I think it does have a lot more uh desirability for the neighborhood I think it does match the other homes and make it look to be more part of the neighborhood as something rather than something that stands out um so I am in favor of the application although I am not in favor of the fence in front of the house um it it I think it rings as something closed off and our homes are not like that at all um our homes are welcoming to the public and to people in general and having a fence in the front I think signals the wrong thing so that's my opinion okay um but otherwise I'm very pleased with the changes thank you chair I'd like to Echo what everybody said I I thank you for hearing us making those changes it was really important that those be done because that original application or drawing was not indicative of the neighborhood so thank you this looks wonderful um to Russell's point I agree on that to Chris's point and to myself and Danny's original point about the fence feel it's unnecessary um it's just not it doesn't serve a purpose other than to prohibit something um um and our town is a walkable town where we like our neighbors to pop by and say hey and fence prohibits that um that's the hiccup for me okay thank you anybody else on the board would like to make further comment um I think the design is fine and I go along with everybody else in reference to the fence um not being in the front you know it's just it's too inclusive so just if we have keep the fence out I have no problem with it okay thank you any other comments already done I'll I'll comment I I appreciate all the changes I Echo with something my colleagues do however I kind of disagree on the fence if a person was living there that had a dog you closed off the back you have an enclosed yard as it is laid out now it's not enclosed it couldn't contain a dog cuz I did the same thing thing with M so I understand the need for fences sometimes but this I don't think it serves a purpose because it's not closed in okay well having heard the board's comments uh even though there's no variance required related to the fence um uh I would indicate to the board that I will represent to the client that they should redo remove the Defence from the application all right we appreciate that and if I'll leave it to the client to in the future if he wants a fence to come back for for an amendment to ask for a fence to be approved because actually the the fence could be built without a permit no he wouldn't have if the fence complies correct the fence complies we were trying to address variances you know it's one of those feel things I understand it's not you know that's my field this par is not feeling but I do appreciate all the comments we tried to work with you and I think you've worked with us thank So based on the board comments I'll make a recommendation to approve 1206 comto street with are we withing anything with this well there's usually any outstanding conditions of the reports that have to be complied with that's in there uh wheel stops will be installed at the end of the driveway for DA's request and the uh engineer's comment uh revise the plan to add a concrete uh pad at the side entrance uh that's going to be approximately it's going to go to the driveway approximately 5T in width by 5 ft in length uh applicant will contact jcpnl work with them attempt to uh relocate the overhead wire any overhead wires underground or in another location uh uh front EES are going to be extended for uh the architect's testimony about 16 in from the exterior and uh whether or not there's going to be a fence is up to you well I think Mr H you you'll agree to have a conversation with your applicant yes with a recommendation saying to eliminate the offense in the front Okay well then that's a condition of removal it's condition of approve okay can I ask for one clarification um I've never seen this before there was a an element in plan's report about Street trees ah and it says one for every 50 fees required we have two but we have to now make a contribution even though we have two so in other words because we don't have to put new one in because we have more than enough but we have to make a contribution just never seen that before one to me we need one I got two we have to make a contribution anyway there might be one in front of theiry if you choose not to put 10 on your report if you one coming out because it's where the driveway is are you able to get it in I know the way I read the report is you know that it requires one we have two it didn't indicate about anything being removed I'm not clear that I yeah no but the the ordinance is a it's being removed I'd understand no no no the ordinance does say they want a contribution for every development application even if we have Street trees because sometimes they don't live some things you have to live with Mr these these aren't New Street trees these are established Street trees okay in any event I just wanted to clarify that's a requirement obviously we'll comply so do we have a second I'll second based on the conditions Jack mentioned correct and the street tree contribution and the street tree contribution yes three you're Daniel Harris yes Russell Lewis yes Natalie pasini yes Jill Potter yes Tim slick yes Vice chair Scully yes chairman Abalone yes thank you Mr H thanks so much everyone have a great holiday happy holidays and I make a motion to take a 10-minute recess second all in [Music] favor um I will now take the roll call Wendy Glassman is absent Daniel har is present Russell Lewis is recused from this application recused n pasini here um Jill Potter is recused from this application accused uh Tim slick is recused from this application Vice chair Scully here and chairman avalone here Mr Steinberg welcome it's been a long time since we've seen you have may I please we have four members of board that's a quum at four out of seven uh application can proceed to the applicant all notic require all the notices are good to require affirmative vote of three out of four members uh for the variance relief requested and design exceptions if any uh I review the notices they're in proper form and we have jurisdiction to proceed thanks Jack thank you uh good evening uh ladies and gentlemen of the board Mark Steinberg on behalf for the applicant and the property owner sitting next to me is Peter Lamers um welcome pardon me thank you yeah might be confusing it's Henry Peter in the application I could by my middle name okay um this application has been uh fulminated for about a year oh really yeah that's a long time yeah it's got a 23 g is there any particular reason why it's been so long um Peter and his Husband do not live in the property only in the summer corre we live in Florida from November to May so there there was problems in not in communicating but in getting things together and and Michelle Alonzo worked with us substantially and we got everything in order so that we can make the application Peter and and and and Gary uh Ed Gary um met with her and and myself and we went over everything that was required and what other items she wanted to complete the application but it took us a while okay um the situation is basically that the property exists in its current state and and and it's completed um we're not asking for anything addition that so you're asking for forgiveness is that correct Mr Steinberg somewhat yes yeah somewhat there's no question about now we have a situation here tonight and and we planned tonight's hearing about two or three months in advance so that Peter could fly up for the hearing um not knowing that we'd only have four members here we would leave I didn't know that was going to happen myself Mr Steinberg so please don't take it as something that was planned ahead of time of course not I I didn't know this myself until tonight yeah of course not and I've been to you know I do other many other towns and it happens and I I just was commenting that I was in eaten town uh but you're more than welcome to carry this to another date well and to wait for a fifth person if you would like to because I know I understand that and the option has been given to us I've discussed this with Peter and we would like to proceed tonight as far as we can get and then make a decision whether or not we would then adjourn it and wait for the fifth member to be qualified for this hearing and we would probably not come back till the spring I know question well it must be nice to have two houses I'm happy to fly back up for sure but there's purpose to check on homes here but you know I have an issue also because I am leaving for the between that one the end debate I mean I'm the only one staying what can I tell you we don't care about lawyers you can adjourn this to Fort Myers if you DET but let's let's see what we can get at this point we we have we have attempted to give all the information to Michelle and and prepare a package and and and tell you what the problem is so if we could swear in Mr sir please raise your right hand do you saw me swear firm at the testimony about to give this matter be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name for the record and spell it Henry Peter Lamers L mm e RS preferred name um before we do that we would like to Mark some exhibits I don't know if the board has the included in the package do you have it the color and the size and you're okay with this I believe so anybody else needs more good okay so I let's can we can we can make it A1 yeah we're going to Mark the survey as A1 that's a survey prepared by land Lakeland survey dated um January 5th 2024 which shows all of these uh elevations and setbacks of the property as well as the uh property LS number one uh A2 this was a package that the applicants prepared in conjunction with requirements of uh Michelle Alonzo as to each of the Varian as requested and corresponding pictures um to advise the board do the board have this package also yes yeah I know we submitted six or eight but you never know where they go so if we can mark that as A2 and I I don't know if the board has this I know that the planner has it these are the there was a question after the application was made and after uh the your planner and engineer reviewed and prepared reports for this evening whether or not the artificial turf is permeable I think that's been disputed this way and that way there no there's been there's been a determination it is soon as I swear in okay but I do have these specs if the board would like to see them sure okay so Mark let's we have both a Laboratory test report and the specs so if you want to mark them together from the same company as A3 it would be fine and you guys have it but I don't think the board has it no we don't have that this [Applause] is you your question swear in my staff SAR fromuth for the record Donna Miller board planner Jerry fra board engineer so before we start getting into the the the real me of this application and what variances are being required now I I'd like to understand how we got here Mr Lamers that's that's what I was going to do normally you know this process is not the way it's being handled right now do you understand that I do understand that I've had other building projects and I was um in other states and surprised unfortunately when Maryanne came when we thought we were following the process filing all the permits and unpleasant surprises so you're saying you weren't aware that you were violating ordinances absolutely not absolutely not as as part of your package you will see um that the applicants my clients have U applied for a zoning permit um and received that from Mr seagull on June 4th 2021 for the project and they subsequently requested the same again from the Maryann uh Getta Getta who was she's no longer the zoning zoning officer officer and she issued all the permits uhhuh and then construction began and some of it was when the homeowners were home and some of us when they were not but that's not an excuse Mr Steinberg I'm not I'm not saying it's an excuse I'm indicating that you asked how this happened uhhuh and we've got to explain to you how how how it occurred um and I know and I understand it's not fair to the city something like this happens it gets constructed actually it's not fair to the zoning board the zoning board is part of the city not really we're we're we're volunteers Mr Steinberg and and yes we we act on behalf of the city but we're volunteers and and we are your neighbors too Mr langers I realize this is not a good use of your t and unfortunately my opinion is it it's it's difficult to sit here and and have to say now um okay you've done this now what I I totally understand it and and and it's it's a situation that came about that was not anticipated okay it was wrong it it should have been better supervised and and should have been as it preceded but if you're sitting in my seat how would you view it Mr Steinberg I sat in your seat as the board attorney for several other boards and I know you have and and when people come for forgiveness uh after the fact it makes it very difficult for the board two ways whether or not to deny him which causes a crisis because everything is done rip out type things um and then the other hand why should you give somebody approval when they have violated the ordinances without coming back and asking permission to do so it's it's a double-edged sword and it's a very difficult decision for you I I understand that 200% um unfortunately we're here because after construction was concluded and Maryanne came back and went over everything she found out there was a lot of variances created by the construction that were not anticipated because it not was not being watched by the applicant or by the I'd have to ask Peter what what what occurred let him explain I wasn't there so he was they came to me after the fact they all correct so the contractors pool Town contractor uh that did The Hardscape uh Celtic Concepts when we were working through Celtic Concepts in particular the plans that we assumed that were submitted and the conversations that we had with um particularly related to the retaining wall and the placement of the fence we were we thought we were completely clear we understood that there was a height restriction a setback restriction what made you think that they they told us who told you uh Celtic Concepts and the based on do you have that in record no I do not can you produce somebody from your Construction Group that would testify on your behalf I can try to ask Mark Napolitano to show up can't go too far this can't go too far this on that line of question okay there then possibly evidence and prejudice against the applicant the Varan that apply for okay okay but but I we have no problem I understand but we're all we're all all of us are experienced Mark and I I've been at this for 45 almost 50 years so we've been around this thing for a while I get this kind of stuff happens I understand so I just want to make sure we don't get too far a field in enforcement yeah but I didn't I didn't understand his answer so we're going to get an answer him complete his answer and I want him to answer the questions with chair yeah title to when you said that they told you they was setback request what do you mean so the placement of the retaining wall and how far it needed to be off the sidewalk or off the the placement they did not inform us about the placement of the aluminum fence being an additional 5T off all the conversations that we had had with Kel concept and the design that we assume was was presented was the retaining wall with the with the fence directly behind it um as well as as the heights um so with the permits being submitted as we assumed and I'm not an expert of looking at plans and I'm not trying to absolve my responsibility in this but when I looked at the plans that were submitted I assumed that that was discussed with the contract by the contractor with the appropriate people in the city and that we were following the plan can I please Don okay so we have we have a lot of things associated with this um and and I believe in your packet you have copies of the zoning permits that were issued because they're part of the application materials we received that's what I was discussing before the only thing we don't have are the actual drawings that were associated with these permits I'm not sure what happened there so and I know I've called out some stuff in my report that seems like I'm sure you guys are blindsided like the thing about the separation of the fence from the retaining wall I hate that one when we did the zoning amendments I had argued strenuously against that one but it stayed in um but that's kind of like an Arcane thing in the code that not many people know about and can see but in these in the application documents there's nothing about the outdoor kitchen um there's some very clear you know specifications about the distance for the pool equipment um and the lighting and uh the height um of the accessory structure um so I I want to I think maybe some of the things that may be more important to the board are the location of the shed the location of the pool equipment the height of the screen wall you know the patio limit those are the things that were really part of your pool application and were in the scope of your permits so how did we get so far a field from from what's in the permits you know we can deal with things like the Arcane crap uh you know with the fencing and and the retaining walls I understand and I agre I just need to understand where how we got here yeah how did we get theall how did we get the outdoor kitchen how how did this happen permits are being get the pool equipment provided how did this occur I guess my question is so you Justified that you you saw plans from your hardcap and your pool people correct what you saw on those plans is not what you have in real life on your on your propert you're say revisions and we again because we were pulling they were pulling permits we as the applicant weren't pulling permits we were making revisions to the plans and stupidly assuming that this was going forward to um Maryann um well so why why did you have a permit from Mark and then a permit from Maryann was there a substantial change between what had been originally we when we added the screen Celtic concept was the designer for that they weren't the executor for that we they were acting as our agent to submit these revisions to the plan because there's so many revisions to this plan because originally we even had um an outdoor wet room and we took that off because it was just too expensive to do a sewer hookup so everything there was probably six revisions to this plan we love when that happens yeah I know well we didn't need it because we went with a assumption that this was okay so there were changes that there were changes that required you to actually amend your permit and that's why we have two separate permits under the two different zoning officers that's correct okay and then when Maran Maran came out to do her compliance inspection um she discovered the additional work or the you know deviations from the from the permit specs and that's how you got to hear but weren't there updates to the construction Department throughout this process Mr Lamers my assumption was there was because we were having permits pulled and I know only from the perspective of the inspector's so you were not involved with this process at all I was not involved in the submission of the permits no or the submission and he was whoever the construction head of this Construction Group was not keeping you updated about what he was doing that's correct because I had with these revisions to plans I was assuming that these were so you just assumed all along that he was doing everything right as a licensed contractor yes I mean I acted in good faith with as an experienced contractor in the area of kilter concept that's why we went with them someone that had familiarity with Asbury because we're not full-time residents nor do we know I take no pleasure and telling you you have to move things and you have to change I I really don't Mr lers that is not why I say here I I I certainly don't want to make you torture you and your your husband over a situation that you're saying you had no control over but and that's not the intention of why I do this job at all go ahead personally they're not enough people here to testify and I have a problem with us going forward with this because obviously you didn't know what was going on when it was going on and now you're expected to get let me finish now you expected to give us testimony as to why it went on and I don't feel comfortable with your testimony I would prefer to have the people here who made the decisions on your behalf because the hus does fall on you ignorance of the what's happening is not an excuse but I would prefer to have the people who made these decisions who went forth with all this work here to testify as to why they did it we can try to get them here and I don't feel good going forward tonight saying well we're just going to rush for this tonight just to get it done no bring all the people involved here and then I no I'm still talking and then we can proceed to do this correctly I mean you already did it any kind of way I don't want to go forth with this with this proceeding any kind of way okay you can come back and for Miles later but get all your Ducks lined up so that we can do this correctly that's my feel it it may be very difficult to get the contractor back I'm not worried about how difficult it is you'll have to get it done tell we're resoning not remember we've had this discussion in the past and I understand it's very difficult I don't envy in you you sitting there however our task is not to decide who's right or who's wrong with how it got here our task that's the that's the municipal Court's job are you in Municipal Court on violations no okay so the city has not seen fit to file complaints against the there there there have been no lay complaints okay from any of the neighbors or anything like and we had spoken to Maryanne um she said nobody was pursuing the uh any complaints and she wasn't planning to do so as long as we started the filing process which we did okay I get typically the typical scenario with this type of thing which you unfortunately have seen seems to be more frequently as the years way too frequently Mr what happens is they go to stop or orders issued summonses are issued you go to you go to municipal Court Municipal Court Judge typically has said historically go we're going to hold this in a bance you go apply to the zoning board if the zoning board turns you down then we'll deal with it if the zoning board approves it we'll dismiss it because no harm no fou okay but in this set of circumstances you've got a situation where it hasn't proceeded yet but it's not our we we do not have the jurisdiction and the power to to decide how it got here why it got here obviously our power is how do they sustain their burden approv for the variances and if the answer is no as painful as it might be then it's no and then if it's been built it's either a tear out an appeal or whatever it is but you'll do you'll apply the proofs as you see fit as zoning as a zoning okay but we're not the enforcement agency if the city chose chose to not enforce the violations or do anything about the violations that's another Department's responsibility it's not ours we don't have the power to do that that would be the zoning officer and the administration what I I think you were going before Christopher L questioning is okay I understand one of the things you certainly want to find is how does this happen and how can we prevent this from occurring where we seem to see it more frequently I want and and I think that it's there's somewhere along the line in the inspection process maybe there's too long a gap between making an application construction gets started if they're if they don't they don't wait till the end they go out and they say wait a second I'll use that fence this fence is this is not what's on this plan you stop right then and there you don't go and complete you don't you don't complete the job you can't complete the fence until you either move it or you go to the zoning board get variance how it gets to where it's complet everything's that's where it runs in that's where you are put in that horrible position which Mark acknowledges cuz he's been land use attorney for many many years stop the many many okay well no look I've been ated 47 and you were admitted two or three before me I've been here pretty long too so Mr I again it you know uh and no it was all 10 years ago just stop so whatever it is you know and and somehow or other we' got no it's true it's true and having been in the zoning office this spring and summer filling in after Maryann left you know that office is very shorthanded Maryann could not you know interim inspect every single permit okay as as things went on um but I don't want to put blame anywhere I I just wanted to say how did we get here and now what now what that's what I so we have to find out why can't you make the screen wall comply and height why can't you move the legally you have to apply the principles that you apply right or wrong I mean positive feelings negative feelings however you feel personally somewhat is irrelevant uh you know but if there's a harsh task to be had here then that's what's going to happen and I take no pleasure in any of it none no I don't zero Envy no I I would much rather have come here the way the last applicant did with a blank blank sheet of paper tell you what we want and we hear move this move that move that unfortunately we have to work with what had occurred here um I I I and and of course we need to actually prove that these variances meet the criteria of the law at which point at the next hearing we will have a planner give you all that information and and and her opinion um and in a positive aspect your construction is done well well maybe yes between a rock and a heart both sides are C between a rock and a heart I understand if I may speak I was shocked with maryan because I was like trying to close out all these things and have her come onto the property she was delightful you know looking around and she's literally I'm not paraphrasing she said first of all this is gorgeous and there's just issues and both Ed and myself our faces just dropped because it's like I thought we literally were making sure all the permits were getting P I was making sure that the inspections were scheduled because somebody had to be at the house and then hearing things like your Wall's too high or that's not compliant I I'm not trying to be dramatic I we would like devastated because there is a lot of time and effort I know that's not the board's problem but it is what it is so should we itemize and go one by one and I I however best to proceed I I I'm open yeah I I I here some negativity from the board um and you know I at this point we can do that you know we would appreciate that um but I think that we would prefer um a larger number of board members to make the final determination I'm looking for more than four well I I I appreciate that as well so but let's see how far we can get tonight um issues yeah we you may be able to um put yourself in a better position in front of additional members if you get some feedback on these these uh deviations absolutely let's let's start backwards though tell us about your findings on the impervious coverage because that was gosh I was saving that for the icing what me thought that was going to be the icing to make everything better the dessert at the end no because I got a call from from Michelle um and she said oh you need another VAR I said well Michelle we sent out the $400 wora of notices yesterday when are you waiting to tell me okay cuz we had met with her several times and she had all this information you know it's a really nicely done artificial turf okay I mean it has the same problems they all F grass is on the edges you know the weeds are starting to move in and so um the entire property is basically artificial turf and nobody noticed until I right away hey that grass looks exceptional for November no the RightWay is natural yeah the RightWay okay so it's not complet property plant but there's not grass so the intent is not have to cut grass I'm sure corre so so I immediately said somebody give me a spec and and kindly Mr Steinberg offered to tear it all out I didn't realize I didn't realize what it cost them yeah so they did provide us with the spec I shared that Jerry and um I think it's okay yeah I mean the specification is fine it would help if you could get pictures if there were pictures taken of dor installation on anything the the retaining wall yes I that okay if you have those that'd be helpful to the board because now we're looking back and we weren't able to do inspections when they were built um but the specification for the synthetic DF is falling um it meets all the standards the permeability of it is rated how it's well you know they rated by the gradation of the material underneath the turf the turf lets water through okay right it's like a thin little layer of rug for lack of a better ter and it sits on an embedment of stone right that stone although it has to be compacted somewhat is permeable and allows water to drain down so um pretty specification yeah not all of them do which is what the problem we had with some of the other applications and sometimes there's a layer of Sil or something no one knows about that's right there and it causes a problem down the road um but it appears that everything looks in order it looks in good condition out there we just can't tell you how it was installed because we don't know but if you have pictures I will will that would go Long Way find them um and I can certainly have forever long the representatives try come here we're inclined to say that they probably don't have an impervious coverage problem based on the material they've provided so far okay that's one less variant okay you're getting there it's a tedious process but you'll make it let's talk about the other ones so and and all right since we're kind of like yeah we'll kind of walk walk the stuff or whatever um the other thing I did cite was the separation distance between the retaining wall and the fencing and I think this is an artifact in the code um you know I don't remember it being in the original one that Dave and I worked on but the um you know the building code says if you have a retaining wall of at least 3 ft you need a railing right and that railing needs to be right behind the wall so that you don't go around it and fall up so um for some reason in the zoning ordinance we have this provision that says if you have a fence associated with a retaining wall you need to have a 5- foot separation between them and it we had this before yeah so you know I think technically yes they need the design exception I compl completely support granting that because um you know the the the advancement of the zoning ordinance is that the physical condition is a you know a public benefit um so you know as far as that one I think that's also a uh don't worry about it it's fine we'll all survive if we grant that one that's 2.7 in your report 2.7 yes okay um so then um as long as we're in fences and walls um Donna on on the fence so that screening that's in between it is that a separate uh variance so there technically is not a provision in the code about the the screen mesh and I've talked with Michelle about this too so you know we we have Provisions in the code about not enclosing your front porch you know that's that's not allowed um and the fence regulations call for an open fence um and that deals with the actual placement of the slats you know the physical construction of the fence and this is a you know kind of a temporary measure that's added to the fence that makes it less open but it's you know there's kind of a loophole in our code about that yeah um and in fact Michelle had permitted you to have the mesh temporarily temporarily and we only have it for privacy because we're kind of well but that's the whole point of requiring an open fence on on a street Frontage is we don't want you to have that much privacy and it does look like it it's pretty it's pretty closed off from these pictures so you know I'm not I'm not giving I'm not citing them as needing a a relief for not having an open fence they technically have an open fence it's the aluminum picket it is the right you know specification for the tree frontages it's just um I guess in combination with the wall it's too high um yeah in combination with the wall it ends up being too high but you know we're still calling it an open tense and the the the mesh is a temporary condition that's not really governed by the ordinance down take it down we only put it up for privacy and and your Landscaping once it kind of grows in and I think it has grown in some I think you'll start to get the benefit of better screening there but I know it's Corner lots are tough and um you know that's your whole yard that's a but it's a double-edged sword you know we expect yards to be semi public on Street frontages um let's see so so um give me the the power number as you do it okay I'm 2.6 I got um along the driveway and along the drum and avin Frontage gets over 4 feet so that's um so the question I guess is well yeah so the problem is the lot um slopes slopes you know from third as well as from drum and the yard area is set higher than the what used to be the driveway or is the driveway basically um on drumond so uh yeah you know you used walls we use walls all the time in our in our yards in Asbury Park um a lot of lots are mounded up from the street right so it's the same kind of situation and so um the combination of the fence and the wall makes it too high right and we've had this before yeah so if you're on the inside of the fence it feels normal but when you're on the outside of the fence it it looks like a a barricade yeah yeah Fortress so you know there may be a planning reason for that based on the existing Topography of the L the configuration of the lot the existing structures like the house the driveway the uh Street elevation which you know could um you know be a reason for that but may maybe also they could have a lower fence along the driveway because it's just on the inside of their property does it really need to be is that is that that's the only area where it as it starts to come up Drummond or go south you know toward third is where it gets um you know tapers back down but the worst part is closer to the driveway do you think that causes any safety issues though because when you're from the inside having a lower fence you are higher up from the driveway yeah I'd be hesitant to make that change for safety issues so that's and so that's exactly the the board has to consider is it better for it to be too high or if you cut it down is it any kind of problem to make compliant um and then uh but anything that that you know is very high like that Don it gives you a sense of of well the worst part of it is in their driveway so it's not on the street side you know it's not the actual public that's affected by it it's them in their driveway so that could be another you know mitigating factor I think the screening this the screening from my perspective makes it worse as well okay cuz we've had this before where it's been a solid fence on top of a wall right mm here we have open fence on top of a wall if it maybe did not have that screening it might not be so imposing from the street side we do that read between the lines on that one laer like fashion may not be material but um just for clarification I do have pictures there was an existing retaining wall at that driveway that was replaced full disclosure it is higher because when the pool went in they did regrade but there was an existing retaining wall yeah you changed it all doesn't matter anymore I mean as long as we're all friends here yeah know I know I understood I just so 2.5 um is the Wall height exception and this is the section that's uh on the interior lot side against the neighbor and that's where they have their screen wall um and um that's really high so can you tell us what drove the decision- making for that height is it absolutely necessary to be that height is somewhere in between of that height this is the for my edification this is the wall that um do you have oh yeah is this the wood wall is this the wood wall Woodall right privacy wall well it's not just the wood wall because it's also the clabbered wall the white wall where the uh outdoor kitchen intersects with the wood wall and then wraps back toward the house so if you're on the wood fence wall detail is that sheet four of your um supplement where it shows there's a picture you can see the side of the shed what page is you have they page yeah page four oh I'm looking right at okay yeah that's that's the wall yeah so there's the wood unfinished wall and then there's the white wall that has the fixtures on it and the cloth so the whole thing is too high the shed is not too sh set back yes it's in the wrong place but it's not too high well there was an there was an existing Foundation that that uh for a previous shed but didn't the permit say yeah I saw okay the sh there you go just like your old retaining got on the May no Mar let's on this one equipment shower so where was the um W room going to be essentially where the pool equipment next to the pool equipment um and the outdoor kitchen was going to be where there would cler but with everything got turned around and one of the plan submissions that was unfeasible because the SE hook up was $40,000 yeah and so we struck that from the plan the purpose of the you couldn't get it to go to the house no because the hookups on the other side of the house of course of course um we even asked to see if if we could ask for an additional meter and that was also prohibit so the uh the Wall height was purely a designed factor to enclose the pools equipment provide some sound barrier um and some privacy from our neighbor that's right on top of us there's no nothing else I can see them yeah yes okay so uh so the maximum permitted height for a wall on an interior side like that is 6 ft for a solid wall so it's uh I'm sorry is it foot 4 um 7.4 ft okay so it's a foot point4 one foot 3 in like 16 in 16 in to high you know whether or not the reduction of that would hurt the neighbor so so that's that's something the board has to consider also whether or not the Jason neighbor wants to see more of everything going on so um do you know the height of the boards or the clab birs like would it be so is it two boards that are too high or is it more than two boards too high looking at the wall yeah I'm not sure that I know that accuracy just you know pictures worth a thousand words you know if you could really get a sense of what the difference is by to guess but I actually have no idea 612 it might be two and a half or three boards uh difference in height if you're looking at that page four between the permitted height and what what they have so yeah it's probably too and a half CS um and and so is it so why why does it have to be that high or because you're here you're asking for the relief so why does it have to be that high why can't it be complying well physically I assume it can be compliant but then you're exposing another foot and a half to the adjacent neighbor and impeding on our privacy as well as their privacy next door so that they don't have a view of what's going on in the backyard and we I love a show B me B me people watching it's a great activity um it's something but then we run into the enclosure next to it which we you said we wrapped around the clock is we could find out with the uh number of boards to be removed to be compliant okay and then uh so then up at the top here so now this is where we have the the setback variances for the for the structure so the shed the outdoor kitchen the pool heater and the and the patio and I will suggest that I'm not terribly offended by the patio as being a horizon you know horizontal surface level encroachment um I don't think that's a a tremendous harm but the things like the pool heater and the shed and the outdoor kitchen are you know more permanent uh vertical visual obstructions they encourage people activity at them that is lingering you know that could be the the nuisance to the neighbors so um let's see was the out to a kitchen on the original plans it was not it was submitted separately and why was that why was that because the out the wet room that it was referring to before uh everything was getting reconfigured and so we always wanted an outdoor kitchen we were planning to have a grill and a sink the sink is there for clarity there's no hookup because we have no water or a sewer um we literally had to rejigger everything between Celtic Concepts and Kevin hickey who was the contractor that was actually doing the wall work and the the kitchen work I have no excuse of why it wasn't submitted and clarified I do recall Maryanne saying there's a permit for an outdoor kitchen is that still progressing there was at least some record of that at some some point in time um it's embarrassing so the kitchen element might almost be considered a Minimus deviation it needs to be 3 ft away it's 2.8 so it's inches right out um and again being a only like 3 or 4 foot high element maybe it's not too offensive being a few inches off um I think the bigger deal is unfortunately the shed shed because that is much closer and much larger and how tall how tall is the roof line on the shed 10 foot 10 foot and the wood fence how how high was that that was 74 in or 7.4 7.4 ft so it extends approximately 3 feet over that so the so your neighbor is just staring at the back of the the shed it's a wall or a wall that they're looking at uh and then the pool heater again um that closure of of the pool equipment is outstanding it's it's uh I can only say how it's so tall literally was just for containment and for privacy I I understand the purpose I really do it's it's all very lovely but it's overwhelming it it's it really is um and then I just want to clarify in my report it says uh 3 feet to a property line but it's really 5 ft so um that is a foot and a half too close this is the the pool the pool c yeah cool heater yeah I assume the quest of moving all that is quite expensive but cutting down enclosure may be something that we'll see I mean we're going to have to go back and see what what you know certainly can do some of the stuff is do you have Mr glammer in your mind any remediation plan for us to look at or think about or no we want to we want to hear your comments and then when we come back we will have submited prior to what we choose to be the next yearing date revised proposed plans for approval which you know we can hear you okay if you can if you can render an opinion do you feel you have enough data that's one thing if you feel you can't then the burden shifts to the applicant yeah to you we understand we understand but I mean we just you know the wall the pool the equipment en closure maybe not the equipment itself um I I mean there are certain things we can cope with and other things that we're going to pay the we're going to pay the price simp because it got done when it which it happened okay let's not rehash that part but we're willing to certainly before we even ask and let me be clear we we want to work with you Mr Lamers I appreciate that and I'm sure he does you know so we heard already those those things I think as our as our board planner had said I understand the the fence I think if we can open the fence again so we actually see that it's an open fence um I I agree with the chairman that the the enclosure around the pool equipment and the wood fence is high and then I understand the pool equipment is the pool equipment I totally get that I went through that myself that's a myy i because they sorry but I think I think that's maybe there's something that you can do there as well um with with the enclosures with the enclosures with with the shed I know we haven't talked a lot about the shed but initially from the pictures I do have concerns about the shed because of the height of it we're talking a 10-ft structure close to the property line um was that like a prefab or or it was built on site it was actually built from the ground out it was it was well let me clarify the Amish came in built it all side from the Amish SAR company that oh my they actually build a very nice Pro they build a lot of barns there there's another neighbor that built the same thing on that property too but there was a shed at that location on a prior's pan okay we don't know the height we don't know the well but what's your ordinance is the sheds I'm sorry I just was zoomed in very tight on sheet seven looking at another view of the shed and are those the wicked witches legs sticking out from under the shed that's a big fan of is it possible when you come back can you get a picture of The Shed from the perspective of your neighbor from the neighbor um is there in there probably have don't think I took one from the third um no not with the shed it's just the wall faing of so I have one is any consideration given to your neighbors when they built the shed par me was any consideration given to your neighbors when the shed was built I we did share the plans with him um his name is Jim I can't remember his last name his only advice to us was you're overspending on your property I'm not trying to make it light of it that's literally what yeah he wasn't concerned with the location that's the height U of the of the structure but we'll we'll see what we can do with that um that may be harder and maybe we do have the copy of the survey showing where the where the pad was located you know original pad which was in that location Mr steber we take that into consideration Mr steber like anything else what else Mr steber on on real everything is either from what you have said either more difficult or more expensive yet it was initially done without permission and I'm not here to stamp anything that was done without permission I don't care we we we we're going to try to mitigate this as best as we can um keeping that in mind I just had a question this this picture right here so your neighbor's house is sort of over here it's right and I know that's some parallel to those wood frame so is there anything between the equipment and your neighbor's house there's not there well sorry there is there the open fence there's an open fence there's the open fence um and then they they put in some EMS um on their side of That's So the way it is here this noise is probably getting pushed towards your neighbors instead of towards your pool probably I I haven't Jim hasn't said anything to me about it but yes that's an actual set this is but was it in operation this past summer yes and the summer before and the summer before although the wall wasn't done something so everything on page8 has already been approved but it says P equipment and surrounding [Applause] moreall can mitigate to hire that I think for me with just to go back to this picture granted I I know you said your neighborhood doesn't have a problem with it but unfortunately as we all know the Varian is go with land so your neighbor might not always be your neighbor so I understand that you put up the fences to block The View and maybe some of the noise I think if you can consider maybe putting something there to block The View and the noise for your neighbor neighbor or future neighbors we use the extra material put there recycle turn it around a little bit and lower it um you know I can certainly appreciate that I mean and the air conditioner units were always there and I'm sure they can hear that as well so so yeah we can put make it a true enclosure MH um at at at a reasonable height correct also there's other forms of of enclosure I mean you can use natural bushes other than vinyl uh or or wood no yeah I like the Landscaping idea um for sure it may not mitigate as much of the noise but it it it probably and these are just suggestions Mr L the board has not committed to any approval we we want the chance to see what we can do to mitigate what's there um for for the board's edification so we would move more forward move forward more forward move forward with with with the application on some of the issues which are reasonable and some which we will prove to you good and uh try to get as close to the coordinance requirements as possible I appreciate that we're not going to do 100% it's very difficult but we will have the proofs of that for the remaining issues was any communication between po town and um seltic concept yeah they're going to Pardon Me we're going to go back to them you're going to go back to them well I think you can go back to them and see what they can do well I all I can get them to do is to testify I mean it's for pool pool Town's case um I know the plans for the placement for the equipment were submitted I don't want their tested yeah no no this isn't that's not what we're here for that's that's that's going to take us far field of you need that for municipal cour and I don't think they're going to be here they're not coming what we want to do is go back to them and see what they can move to make it a little more compliant with what's required the wall that you talked about the wood wall the enclosure um we take off the the screening fence fence is kind of necessary because of where it's located with the driveway for safety you know and we'll prove all that to you but we're going to try to get as much compliance as possible any other areas you can suggest well and Donna I'm not sure what else we can address and I want to make sure at the end I want to hear from all of you that we're you're the ones that tell us the issues that you're concerned about they need to know yeah exactly like I pointed out you know is the thing that's 2.8 ft instead of 3 ft how the the kitchen should be not not an issue but because of it's dimin type of situation right okay um yeah but I I do have an issue with the height of that enclosure I I I think it's horrible horrible the mesh should and the temporary mesh has to go more temporary than than it has been yeah um okay uh uh yes okay and and we've heard two points of view about the combination fence Wall height um which way are we leaning there the section along the driveway I understand the section along the driveway I think if you were able to move remove the mesh and turn it back to an open okay I think it would be less imposing than it is now so I I'd like to see pictures of it without the mesh from drumond and also from your driveway I think that would that would help um you with regarding the shed if you could take those pictures from the perspective of your neighbor um I'm not sure what you can do with the shed right it was a built structure um I think we eliminated the issue with the grass the ground that's what they call it the plastic Don are they required put Street this expensive requ to put Street trees is that they don't have any place for one more Yeah well yeah but there's plenty of landscapers here just just a Reon did did you take down or remove any Street trees when you did the construction no so there was never any Dr or and third wasn't wasn't I think that for any development there's supposed to be a tree is that correct Donna yeah every development application you're supposed to you know comply with the ordinance requirements um they did plant some of the own trees Drummond is a a but it has to be on the right away yeah I'm happy to contribute that right away the strip on Drummond is very narrow but I'm happy to contribute and do whatever if they go there or not not sure that they're live is it that tiny no we so J so drum is listed as a 50 foot R of way but like there's really a very tight um public Improvement space you know there's the RightWay the curve is narrow yeah but like there's between the curb and sidewalk is really narrow so I'm wondering if it's maybe push could and there is room here to put in yeah but third is fine um and we want you to take that gravel sort of access pad on third on oh take the gate or the the gate yeah okay yeah that should be restored to regular you know RightWay grass whatever understood I I wasn't sure which gravel pad you're referring to so thank you for clarifying that's it's on your C there's no curb cut there it's just gravel yeah they probably used it as an access to put the pool in yeah and we wanted something in Case Equipment would need to be brought into the lawn because the there's the only way to get up to the PO are is through the steps and so just we trying to think ahead should anything need to get back there they had some way to do that have we covered every area that know reble not just wasn't Mr chair yes when you're done I under the circumstances the way this is going there is young lady sitting right there has been patiently awaiting to say she's a neighbor and I think we should hear her comments because it may have something to do with what you want them to do or you may give it a different slant this way we don't wait till spring and then have to go all the way back to the drawing board again okay you wouldn't mind when you're all done like to get if you're in agreement Mr sber Mr lmer yeah this way you'll save them time and effort too absolutely all right so please go go to the microphone okay please raise your right hand and you saw a swear affirm that testimony you're about to give the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes okay please state your name for the record spell it and give us your address uh my name is Amanda brensinger last name b r e n SI i n g e r I live at 1611 3rd Avenue so um if you're at their front door I'm north of them essentially or no sorry not north um East so like across after from them um so oh that one okay yeah so like from my bathroom we can see they're they're like property perfectly um okay I think I don't take any offense to their property I I don't think it's an eyesore certainly I understand that there's things like like through the fence that don't fit with the the rest of the aesthetic of asber Park but they keep a whelming team property I think it's beautiful um and it's a shame that you know they thought they were doing everything like up to code or you know standard but um you know I guess those things fell through the cracks and I don't think it should be penalized too much for those things because I think the property is great and like I said they keep it well maintained and it's not an eyore okay okay thank you for your comments thank you is there anyone else that here for that okay yeah this way no and the com yeah the idea is we're trying to see if we can do something constructive right that I mean she's just in favor of their application you're for against but if you have something that you know like is there something particular that you don't like or or want changed swear I'm going to swear amend just when you answer okay when you speak please raise your right hand s swear firm testimony about to give this matter be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name for the record spell it in your address sure Peter bulos B O L OS and I'm at 1705 Fourth Avenue which is just around the corner okay all right go ahead um and so I just you know listening to everything I mean just overall comments aesthetically everything is is beautiful and and fits into the neighborhood I think the one thing that you know I would um you know argue against as any changes to that um you know that that shed structure you know it's it's perfectly suited and it's aesthetically beautiful understand the concerns with it being you know uh closer to the neighbor or or you know the the height concerns but I think it it fits the property and the neighborhood beautifully and I I don't think there should be any you know concerns with that in terms of the fencing and the the driveway I I you know don't think it'll be a big deal either way if the mesh fabric comes off because the Landscaping has grown in um but I do agree on on the the driveway side because of the height from the driveway retaining wall to the fence that that could definitely be a safety issue if that was changed so those are my overall comments thank you thank you we'll take that into consideration yeah all right so I think we probably G yeah unless you have any other concerns that you want us to address you want that you want to tell them look I don't like this I don't like that I don't like this fence that fence anything you haven't covered I want to make sure that your point of view and your concerns are totally conveyed that they understand where you're coming from I just have a question about the runoff dur in your report you mentioned that we needed to confirm that the runoff wasn't was there's no sign there's no sign of any runoff to onto the neighbor's properties at all um there is some drainage that points out towards the street and probably eventually gets out into the Street gutter uh but it's minimal okay thanks and you haven't had any uh water problems no excuse me so I think we' have gone as far as we can tonight I would request that we carry this matter and I was thinking it may but I think we need to get back here and work on some of this stuff yeah we'll have to come up with remediations alternatives for the board you be able to do that before may get on the get no but at this point there's nobody pushing this as long as it's being in front of the board we're not in front of the municipal court or anything like that no and as long as you agree to the time oh going to address this special situation give a time laer this a special situation absolutely give a time so maybe we should be shooting for June July so that everything can be put into writing and and present a plan with remediation actually you're going to have to Ren notice I'm going to rece you're going to have to rece you're going have to get a new property owner's list cuz the one you have is going to be St course so if you've got a ren notice anyway unless you're sure of your date why we don't necessarily have to give you a date why not just car carry it to an indetermined date and then but it has to be you know you can't let it go a year let's go that way just wait till you get it all done then just during the summer yeah I'm not going to dismiss your application cause you additional cost for that but we keep we retain jurisdiction but you're going to have to let us know when you want come back re notice for what you have you may change your variances around Donna's got to do a new report j's got to do whatever you submit May revise your variances as well so your notice may may you know so subst well we would carry it without a date no later than EX am of months from today um a date and and uh we upon upon that date we would upon obtaining that date we will re notice obviously the proper and re notice yeah we will re notice this would and you got to do it in sufficient time for Donna and Jerry to get the reports done so you don't run into well I want to submit the plans to them so that they can tell what Vari are still necessary so when we get to notice we don't have to call that hey you missed one no no I don't want chck I would I would just instead of leaving it open-ended as uh Mr Su said I'd like some some time put on no later 6 months seven months eight months no later then yeah yeah no no I agree with I think when you you come back in May usually yeah so that will give you a month or two to get all this together to maybe and good for my clarification to submit the proposed changes or have the proposed changes done some no I give us a plan I just want to make of the changes we will submit a plan for instance and those are the ones that you're committed to doing and um and we cut the and you would need then we would update our report according right you would need time yeah so we have that for the next their meeting like a month before the meeting date so really have to wait till May there there what they not going to do they're not coming back until but they're not actually doing the you're not doing the work you're just submitting a plan which you could have speak to the to the contractors or why but you could do that remotely I think to Donna's Point you're not you don't physically need to be here to you want you want to carry it to May no I want to carry it to February Nei get this taken care of already fly up yeah but I'm not flying up I I think May or June is reasonable it's see you guys that's my I think it's reasonable as well so what date the hear uh let's to pick a date in May what is it uh Mar we have a perspective calendar correct yes so this is this the official calendar has not yet been adopted until January but assuming this is we going to have to give you the date in May give them one of the two dates and if there's a problem with that we'll let you know if for some reason the board says no to those dates next year and the May the May agent no car to mayx assuming agre to if it changes we'll let you know so two available options are May 13th or May 20th may but still I still want your notice and I still want to new property right and we are I'm going to submit a letter the letter will contain that we are extending the time in which the board must make a decision to decide the case under the ml right extend extend it without um without termination because I if we don't get H in May yeah no without termination or without prejudice that you'll get a that you get an automatic approval by yeah no no no Works Cuts both ways yeah I'm with you when are we're going to extend the time ex me can we take five minutes so I can go to the bathroom I make the motion to take a 5 minute recess second call the uh yes uh Daniel Harris yeah Natalie paser Vice chair scul here chairman avalone here all right so Mr Steinberg I'm assuming you came up with a date that you you would like because we had a back it up to when we're going to submit amended plans we would request that the matter be carried to June 24th 2025 and I will submit a letter to that respect assuming that that's the the the date that the board confirms if not the next available date after that date and we will extend um you know the time in which the board must make any type of decision um Without End so that even if we don't hear we heard that night or the board decides to and new notices will be done and we will Ren notice um get a new property owner list sometime ail or May and new notice they're not getting the green cards this time that's okay they don't need I know that but as an attorney I'd like to get somebody to sign but at this point it was certified mail is about $9 in change not your problem everything is expensive especially lawyers all right so I make a motion to carry 11:03 Drummond to potentially I'll say potentially June 24th 2025 based on our adoption of our new calendar in 2025 subject to rece subject to Reen notice um second a second [Music] second um Daniel Harris yes n pasini yes Vice chair Stelly yes and chairman AB yes thank you and I make a motion to adjourn the meeting thank second thank you for your attention hopefully we have more people yes