##VIDEO ID:TN0l9_upLKM## okay everybody hello and welcome to the Tuesday October 22nd 24 meeting of the air planning board this meeting hearing the air planning board will be held in person at the location provided on this notice members of the public are welcome to attend this iners meeting please note that while an option for remote attendance and or participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting hearing will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for in-person versus virtual attendance accordingly this meeting will be live on Zoom the public May access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting ID uh 833 6548 0732 or by calling 92925 6099 for additional information about remote participation please contact Danny Ruiz Town planner at DZ a.m. us or 978 772 8220 extension 144 prior to the meeting um I move to approve the agenda seconded excellent any discussion hearing none Ken yes Julie yes Nathan I Jeff yes je votes I it's approved so the first item is uh an informal review of 38 gron Harvard Road I'd like to invite the applicant to the table what's that it's titled d what did I call it I said it's a informal yes that's informal presentation review you said review okay is it a review oh was just a presentation just a presentation presentation presentation whatever I was being informal is there a formal thing called the review all right please if you would give us your names and address and and do you have chairs yes please welcome sit down make yourselves comfortable um my name is Janet field and this is my husband Michael hello hi nice to meet you all hi um we wanted to come in share with you our concepts for this um development off of both High Street and gron Harvard Road um we share we've shared we've had some informal meetings um with kind of an Advisory Board here at this very table to get some feedback but this is our first time to sit down with um you all as as a board and ask for kind of your input and feedback on what we've put together so far um so I know he shared some of the preliminary plans and that kind of stuff with you um I think just earlier today but I I wanted to let you know from our point of view that we have um we've tried to come to you with like an early idea that we've put a lot of thought and effort into um we you know have with like we have a team and we've reviewed kind of the town of air master plan and looked at the you know really studied the open space residental development and try to incorporate some of the um key points that we think we think from our interpretation of what you've published a is looking for okay great and does does Danny have something we can share on the m board so we can see that's great and and so I'm going to ask I'm going to ask Danny just if there's any preliminary setup for the conversation and then I'll turn it over to you both of you and you can lead us through the plans and talk about what your uh what your vision is for this property perfect thank you thank you full presentation why does they keep doing that but that that that do drop sound yeah it's really it's the zoom wants to start a meeting that's scheduled at this time yeah select meeting it say there's a there's a yeah imagine if you start it I have no idea what's going to happen just no CU it'll drop our it'll drop our meeting there way to hit cancel no we keep doing that I see okay sorry if you had dismiss it that's what I keep have dismissed it with with ality more than once thank you yeah the three dots are always delete delete no I don't oh come on you can do it you can play me I'll click it yeah this meeting only there you go okay okay let's see all right let me let me share the screen all right make sure I'm so you're you're going to run this with them Danny is that the idea um I'm just going to give them Mouse um everything's at the top okay of the architecturals too um all right so this is an informal meeting that we have through the osrd process um in our bylaw that allows for the applicants to come before the board with a presentation just for high level um purposes just to give the board a presentation on what they're proposing what they're looking at doing this doesn't get in depth Into You Know full engineering drawings cuz they're not at that point yet um there's still a lot of work that they're doing in the background currently um but this is just so that the board can get a early view of what the uh applicant is looking to propose um we're not going to get too in- depth into questions per se I would say hi level questions that the board may have like you know do you expect of a trail or you know part of the osrd kind of quick questions like that um but we're not going to get into depth like traffic report you know you know just no in-depth questions kind of like that or utilities and any of those no formal plan has been submitted correct Danny do you have the um the engineer the the engineer plan there was the zom bars in the way sorry you know um I can run this if you yeah it's just it's the zoom bar I was looking for um the the yield plan just to give the board an idea of what the original um like a non-op space a traditional development would look like there we go sorry that I couldn't navigate that no that's okay you can just shrink it J yeah I'm just going to turn it yeah oh went too far it's small but it's legible at this point all right that's the best way so you can probably see up in the top left corner where the um the nursing home or the U Memory Care Center is um so that's the the High Street end and then you can see out on GR in Harvard Road so if we were to build just single family houses this is what it would look like and um this so this plan is kind of like the kickoff point for everything right like if you're um going to switch it over to an open space um and this plan I believe gives us 34 house units 26 um a couple with duplexes so 26 Lots it looks like 26 Lots yeah sorry 26 Lots um 32 housing units um but so then you know then we we went looked at this and tried to look at the site and what the best way to develop something would be and look at your um your new multif family housing you know from the last town meeting and then we came up with the plan that um right and this is this this is actually tweaked a little bit so our our engineer did one and then we brought on board on our project team let me just tell you really quickly our who our project team is so obviously Michael and I um we have Ian Rubin who is our civil engineer who who did this draft plan um we have we're working with Miguel Architects to come up with some building blocks and like um you know things that we think would appeal um to the masses you know with kind of like a unit type building block that's repeatable and that we could use throughout these different um housing units and then we're working with rosson Associates for for to do the survey work and gardan Associates has done the environmental impact study um for the conservation and then we're working with vanessie Associates um specifically Jeffrey Dirk for the the well we brought all these people onto the team and yeah they're working on their bits and pieces um so yep they're you know just we don't want to go too down we didn't want to go down too path any path too far until we're certain you know everything could could kind of work and so far we've been pleasantly surprised everybody is our team is terrific and um as they're working through things they're just they're making very positive great discoveries so we're um we're hopeful that we can get some feedback from you guys and keep working with them um let me just so that the board knows um we've had some internal meetings with department heads with um with the applicants um we've had about four meetings internally um just to discuss what the town would look for and from uh from the project uh what we would like to see um and the applicants have been willing to work with the town very you know very well and uh we've been very happy so far with what they've been uh proposing um I'm assuming DPW building yep Community Development and planning y thank you conceptual level can you just give us a description how many multis how many singles how it's said just give like an overall high level view yep so uh the way it's designed today there are 59 units it would be um the yield plan would allow 68 but just to you know with um providing for additional parking Etc it works out that 59 is what it fits and there are do you know the exact breakdowns of the numbers of buildings uh there's three singles I believe seven duplexes seven duplexes seven think there are seven there 17 sorry that you of course there's so there's one two three traic study with me um I can't sorry this is embarrassing that I don't know 42 it would be 42 units in three in three unit yeah cuz there's there's a mathematically there's a five unit one right up here there's a couple of quads so there's a seever I can get the breakdown build I will sorry I have it I do have it but I don't want to sit here in front of you while digging through all my papers there's a mix of singles duplexes triplexes quads and and five and they're all the same size unit oh sorry I haven't here they just married together two in a building one in a building three in a building five in a building structure four singles eight duplexes four triplexes four quads and two five unit buildings and we've tried to work the the reason that these have the red and the orange on them is we tried to work with the architect we're trying to keep um the middle units to be the two bedrooms because they're going to ideally we'll have this kind of like upstairs patio that will allow for outdoor space inside we're so that's like it makes it look kind of funny with those but it's really just trying to we're working on like being excited about it and getting things the way that we would want to present them to you usable space without having a three-bedroom unit um having more of a outdoor space that is semi-private above that's not right next door to another unit um yeah let let a lot more sunlight into the um upstairs of units that are in the middle so it's kind of kind of neat kind of something that we but that explains why it looks kind of funky with these changes already written on plans that you haven't seen before I'm sorry so it's kind of like an internal document that I I can I can show the the original um document which we I have as well it there it is okay H yeah so this is the original so the development is up at the top part of the site and the and the bottom half is um kind of where the open space is left open and um we did that for a couple of different reasons it's a little bit more um approachable up top um and it kind of provides for more connectivity with the downtown area like where you know more walkability potentially for the um homeowners and what we were planning to do is where that house is down on gr Gren Harvard Road um that is great soil for um re recharge so we would probably um propose to remove that house provide like some parking to for people to access the um open space like just I don't know I sent Danny a picture of my idea right now I can pull it up for you kind of an idea of um how you might so that's in Littleton so something like that like where there are a few spaces maybe a bike rack if you all if you all agreed and thought that would be helpful at all for people to ride their bike to walk I don't know if that the house it's there it's very flat and then maybe 150 ft back then it starts going up at like a 10% 9% slope all the way up until it gradually goes down to like a five or six% slope where the houses would be and the environmental engineer that we worked with um concurred that there is a house you know up on the top an old abandoned house up there and they're um it's it's really overgrown with um a lot of invasive species so they um advised that that part of the site would be better de developed versus this kind of untouched land through the center portion yeah the old hland house mhm yeah yeah it in the I Only Have A draft copy so I didn't provide it with you all but it goes into like exactly specifically what the species are and all that kind of stuff of and it's a little bit um you know it's very technical yeah it's part of the conservation analysis that's required right and it um yeah so it so we've tried to keep the development where it would be most advantageous to kind of preserve parts of the property and it's very interesting because you know I'm sure you guys know that so much of the land today is Wetlands or you know like so we're in a very unique situation here where there is no Wetlands there is a lot of rock it's a very ledgy site is that is that the right word yeah we accept the most leg site um so you know we're working around that too but but yeah so this is um this is basically what we have as of today and we just look for any you know advice or input that you might have about you know and I I I'll open up the uh oh right the architecturals that we have so as well so that floor plan that you see there is something that um we came up with working with Miguel and um our our two our team there and it's kind of we we looked we reviewed the um Massachusetts D dchd what their recommendations are for housing units and what they're looking for because obviously there'd be an affordable component to the project and um this is kind of you know keeping it open but having closets in certain places the laundry centrally located like we've tried to we've really tried to cover um a lot of those all if not all of what they're looking for and there's they I'm guidelines yeah I'm really um I'm really happy with Miguel they had great ideas and um I think came up with something that's really like the place that I would like to live in like it's very you know usable space so this is uh one of the other plans that you can can see here's a rendering the floor plan uh here's another one the first floor with the garage you can see and can you scroll up again please thank you that's the second Flor that's the second floor rending but the deck is on the first floor okay right and in that example this is the three-bedroom example that bedroom in the upper leftand corner M on the two bedrooms that would be converted into kind of an outdoor um second level patio space so it could not be used as a bedroom it could not be and that would reduce the price a little bit um yeah so it would be but it also gives some privacy and some you know I I understood yeah no understood yeah when we were working with the applicant you know it was important that we felt that you know we were looking at a lot of the influx with the new Devin you know uh people coming in as well as people in town who want to downsize so that was one of the you know big things we were trying to look for with um for for the applicant to try to provide and we felt that you know this definitely does that and you you see there's a single family ownership not a condominium or an HOA is going to be no there is an HOA yeah yeah um I mean it will be single family ownership but they'll absolutely be yeah and this is you can see the three unit here um I'm assume there's going to be a pull-up driveway in front of every garage so there's two car space thank you and then one space inside yeah one one inside one outside yeah y there's a five unit and then here's the uh the two garage we're not going to we just have it on there but we're not going to do that because it just it'll take up too much space um and it it's like if you introduce a two-car garage option it I think it just like within the community just I don't know I think it would convolute things so we I'm sorry that we didn't have the architect take that off yet we just hadn't had a chance that's kind of the outdoor um backyard look for the three bedroom units and then this is one of the uh renderings y are you going to be doing anything in the buildings to make them solar ready and stuff like that yeah that's yeah they building code building code I understand I'm just I asked the question the nice way they're all they're going to have uh heat pumps um so yeah from a sustainability um Outlook which is like one kind of one of the key points that I like they'll be obviously all energy star that we um H have planned like a very um in-depth insulation package so they'll be you know super well insulated which can really help with the energy cost high efficiency heating systems which Mich pumps Y and um looking at like using some long life cycle materials like for for flooring and that kind of thing you know no carpets so that they won't have to be um replaced every 10 years just kind of looking at you know interior trim and doors and things that have like longer usability so if you don't mind D could you scroll to the picture above the building in the middle suggests a basement but the other buildings don't some of them are going to have some of them going to have uh the buildings on the lower side are in a more of a filled area uh the high side I I just don't but you're not going down in the ledge to put basements in no got it no thanks well they'll have enough room for utilities we just want to have full yeah finishable basements is what we're thinking leaning towards yeah cuz I didn't see in the renderings there's no utility closets on the decks or anything like that so they got to go somewhere you're not anticipating the full basement then on you be a first if you don't does anyone know that there's any place that have slabs in town well I mean you know recently that outside of New England most of the country yeah a lot of a lot the next applicant I agree with you but lower I don't yeah it's that was one of the big things when we met with the applicant it's to make sure we're trying to you know we're hitting that more affordable numbers and um with these with these uh housing units oh good you guys didn't mention that right did they mention that uh they did not but but how many how many affordable units are we um the minimum number of affordable units would be six M so there'll be six um houses that would count towards your Shi um you know that would be fully marketed and um with within all the guidelines for dhcd and what was the square footages that were they about 1900 Square ft that's what I thought 1900 for the for the three bedroom so the two-bedroom would be a little bit smaller 200 yeah 1,700 maybe 1680 or something yeah um and there that so that middle rendering was for the um the single family unit which we did it's a little bit different layout I'm sorry go if you go yeah that one right there so that has a first floor bedroom that's why that has the bump out on the side because we're thinking maybe for some families that were looking to downsize but wanted to have a first floor bedroom starts out as a common room and ends up past the bedom yeah probably right and then this this rendering was just kind of to show what how the buildings would work with the slope you know so you could get a vision for top of the the top of the site where we proposing is about a the road itself is just going to be a 5% slope all the way down so it's not too steep um it works pretty good with with uh units that are connected where you can have steps in each unit with not having a lot of retaining walls in between each unit um and I keeps see if the the cost down as well and here's one of the uh five unit ones um couple questions uh Jeff already mentioned the ownership did you say condos and but the single families will be Standalone they'll have to have the condo they'll be as part of the HOA because the whole Road and infrastructure everything will be managed by the HOA it won't be a Town Road okay so it'll be all condominium it'll be all condominium so the the the way that we understand it is that the um each individual person will buy their condo and have a deed and they'll have an exclusive use area but they will all contribute to um the maintenance the plowing the trash removal yeah it'll it'll fall under all under the master deed right so it's yeah we've actually already met with some people to try to get ideas about how we can best make it you know affordable because the condo fee can kind of um you know put put an extra strain on families so and when do you intend to submit a formal plan do you have a well we wanted to take whatever feedback we can get from you and um those three parts of the the the um traffic impact study the conservation study and well the the um survey we've we've all been we we we talk to them all you know once a week and it's going to be done by Friday so so they're close they're close to having their you know actually um the environmental engineer did Share A draft copy so I do have a draft copy of that was for us to review and um he's supposed to you know we get back to him after we R review it in depth and um then we'll have something to share with you and this is going to be Tom Watertown sewer yeah yep sewer by gravity or they pumps no pumps pretty high up yeah yeah it Go pry high up but this you connection too and and as an osrd you're not proposing to do anything down on gron Harvard Road except uh parking spaces and the sewer will attach down there you're yeah the sewer line coming in but there's going to be no um no driveway no driven no driveable access into the property okay no I'd like to follow up on that um what was that no Drive what no from gron Harbor Road there's not going to be a driveway going up from gr Harvard no connection so just High Street yeah just from High Street going up on top yeah and that would be one of my significant conc concerns cuz we're looking at we have applicants before us that are single single egress single Ingress egress projects um there's there's stuff before our Building Commissioner that um called a saxs and dead ends were put in and they limit uh some of the future work of neighboring properties you know we have to be more creative um I don't know that there's any thing in our bylaw that would require uh a secondary egress um but I would certainly be interested in the fire department's input we met with them we met with them we um this road meets all their standards for their I I mean they're going to do an in-depth review but they took a look at the plan and the turnarounds and engineer looked at their new fire truck regulations and radiuses and all that kind of thing and I I do I because I agree with you we did look at having connectivity but the concern was um a lot of people expressed is it would be a cut through people would cut from Groton Harvard Road up to get to the center possibility and you're going to get people going go all over town There's a second way but it's locked if I had Happ has a key that's the way to do it but if you may recall when we had the and we have had internal meeting so the fire department has reviewed it I have reviewed this as well um you know and if I may a single entry preserving higher value property is an appropriate use of osrd I just make on this topic Julie wait you okay Julie's giving me permission go ahead thank you Julie you're welcome on this topic of uh e ESS um I'd be curious if the town owns uh lot 27163 yes and it ties right into the bottom end of your development the top end topend the top uh right right right where the the homes down here uh oh right right you know you're you're there is a there is a old I think so this is the town owns up here yeah no there's another piece down too D Bel very long Nar piece right there that triangle oh Little Triangle at the bottom that's the town's property yes i' would be very interested to know couple pieces down there it's very steep right there it drops off very so yeah you can see how close the lines are together it's 12 ft from your road to the Grave right so um that's that right there's probably a 25% slope yeah and it if if that it's probably more so it's very similar to um Central lab behind those condos where it really drops off right there and that and that is um it's a 40 it's a 40 foot wide swath yes and maybe even just a one-way road but I would be interest that would be my input is if there's possibility for a second e but does that slot that that's landlocked no it goes to the street goes to gr har go conect you can't see it it just it connects down here it's right here this 27 yeah thank you Julie 163 big question town of air and we did some uh preliminary uh discussion with the building department about um who owns half of a paper road that I don't think that would that's all town of air if it it's not a these it's a Town Road the town the town own piece of property yes it's not a road right no it's it's it's at one point it was probably a paper a proposed paper Road in the whatever it was but either way then it could be that the pels will land on each side of it on to the midpoint of that parcel right now um we could do some investigating that's something that we could absolutely do some investigating and see what and I mean we have a little strip too like there's the area where the house is I mean there's but there also another portion that goes down to uh yeah she has no Frontage that owner yeah no she has an easement right here for this for from um this house I actually spoke with the owner about this they do so they do have an easement that goes down this way there's driveway there yes that's the driveway no but they have that's that's their access that's their easement to pass and repass it's existed before zoning yeah it's existed before so that can't be taken away but I mean there obvious there's enough Land one way or another to make to connect it if if that's what like is for the greater public good um I just don't know if you know I guess that's and this is also why they're looking having the traffic study done to show whether or not one e one egress will work or not I mean they they have to meet you know uh traffic standards for that and if if the if there is any any mitigation that's necessary the applicant you know the the peer review of of the traffic St he would say that so we're far I think we're we're kind of yeah I a little ahead of us I think that the you're looking for high level feedback so I I I'll I'll kick off did you did you have a chance to speak no go ahead high level on them quick the picture we had before this with the houses like it was a rendition no yeah concept they were like it was a concept one rendering yeah rendering I had that one oh you want the architectural one it's okay if we don't go back to it it's fine I just had a question on that one that was simple you had mentioned that the last minute changes and you were moving and it sounded really fascinating is this similar to that or did the street that's exactly the architect did this this is based off those switching so this is what you're currently thinking I mean I know it's not okay thank you is high where's where's the entrance from High Street right at the top right there thank you okay yeah um and then I just want to throw in I love the bike rack idea I actually ditched my bike at his house I know it's I'm sorry but I'm just saying I like it thank you you the only one who ditches your bike house I appreciate that CU I I wonder i' rather ditch my bike there than at his house no offense I wondered if it would be something that would appeal to people so that's great to hear I don't want to ride it up the incline yeah yeah yeah that's a tough incline you know so the the high level feedback I I would give is this I think there's a lot about this that looks really promising I like that there's a variety of options that gives a variety of price points I like the density I like the use of the the land and and and I like what you've done with the open space so uh I'm enthusiastic and I look forward to seeing the plan okay ni any I'm not sure if I should even comment now without seeing a real the real set of drawings but I the first thing that comes to mind is this must be an oversight as a private driveway it does not need to be less than 500 ft there a dead end in our OSD regulations there in our subdivision regulations there's a dead end limit of five or 600 fa feet I wouldn't know how many special permits I guess I'd like to know a list of special permits you'll need um just starting at the corner of High Street and the road that goes in front of the right up here medical building there that's like two or three maybe 250 ft down that street to the entrance mhm um I guess I'd have to know from DPW and see the calculations on the sewer and water usage and how it would impact the town if there needs to be any upgrade on the sewer system size-wise in that area of town so I mean I'm know the technical aspects of it now but I I start right out by saying we've never seen a project that has dead ends like that just never saw one okay you mean with the hammerheads well there's no way to turn this a dead end it's all dead ends yeah so those are called Hammerheads the they're it's what you want yeah so fire department uh did look at them and that's why they put them in uh for them to turn around right but we have a provision in our BW about the length of a dead end Street yeah and so when they make their submissions they're going to have to they'll review all of that and there may be waivers that are requested okay I mean I like the idea of the affordable housing I'm all about everyone's for that yeah I'd like to know more about the I don't know how that works that that's a very interesting question because it really is as a Condominium Association it's not a Town Road so I don't know if the same so that's another thing it is not going to be it's not going to be uh taken over as a to driveway I think it it'll Remain the responsibility if it's a drive where we have a regulation on how many units can be on a drive so I there's a lot yeah there's there's definitely a lot that to be but uh yes you're getting into the no but but I get it yeah think they might think they're further alone than they are so that's all I'm getting it okay the idea of doing multif family housing is great we we want that you know yes yeah I second that and the the 60 units walkable to downtown great idea the other thing we need like I'll go back to the the yield plan I'm guessing you already did this but so the math on the yield plan because we we allow the uh two family with 24,000 sare ft the mathematics worked out to so many 12,000 to 15 whatever size and so many over 24,000 that's how you got the two families yep got to the count yep and then there's also built in the uh based on the and you have the bonuses yes exactly so were there any bonuses allowed for the open space the size of the open space so uh based on the open based on the calculations of the bonuses they could get up to almost 100 units so they kept it down to what they actually could get I think the number was n we could have had 9 9 yeah that's right 91 units but I mean that's based on who the math that was done by somebody in town hall at this point in time yes okay based on the yield plan now that criteria of bonuses is also at the purview of of that is correct understand that yep that is correct but we kept it underneath we didn't use any bonuses we kept it underneath it's 10 it's 11 units or 10 10 units underneath what would just be the open space allow okay good any further feedback from board members okay well I want to thank the thank the fields for giving us this opportunity to get a preview thank you again looks promising I wish you the best of luck thank you so much we appreciate your time all of you and your feedback so we'll take it back to the drawing board and you know tell give our team what we talked about and go from there sounds good all right thank you everybody take care good night night next on our agenda uh it says public meeting but actually it's a continuation of the P open public hearing for Stratton Hill and will appli there we go Mr Collins counselor and I believe we have representing M what's it Frank mcpod is with us he's going out the door so here what's matter I'll say um we also have the uh peer review uh from grean Internationals Jim Thorne so look here's how I want to open this yep there's many dozens of individual items to be discussed yeah we get that we're not going to get to all of them tonight that's right in fact very small but I do think as an ambition for this evening what I would like to see is I'd like to create a path to completion for this I agree you know we've been we've all of us we've been working on this literally for years now uh the latest proposal we got was very promising and addressed the biggest largest concerns that we had and so at this point uh I think we're close to something very viable um a lot of work has already been done and what I want us to concentrate tonight is to say what Remains What are the real obstacles to completion what remains to be done to get this to the finish line and in priorities obviously tackling the big stuff first for example there are a number of important documents that haven't been submitted or completed yet including the Stow Mor manager permit I think there's a meepa there some other stuff m and we have to and and we have to just uh I'm trying to think what's to implore you to consider let's get a move on those things because we cannot deliberate and arrive at a decision till we get those and we'll report on all of that tonight and then regarding this this the peer review and all the comments and there's tons of stuff to go over um nothing will be neglected but again I want to encourage us to think about focusing tonight on the biggest items that require further work down the road so let's make sure we identify what the big things are put our Focus there and and and as as a goal this evening saying let's build that path does that sound reasonable to everyone yeah yeah excellent Danny you take the floor yeah so chair I make a simple request it may sound stupid but we have been at this for a couple of years and it's been sitting for a little bit of time can we just have a quick refresher on what's in front of us Dan I just wanted to give you the intro so people don't give up because it's changed yes since the last time we were sitting here thank you uh so yes uh the project has changed um and it hasn't been before us it's been a while it's been a while month yes I think the act the last public hearing we had was in January I think I was you younger that prior to that was in October when we opened the public hearing um so in the meantime you know between that time and now we've had some uh a couple of peer reviews that have been done uh responses from the app applicant and revisions to the plans so what I would first want to do is just have the applicant give a quick presentation on the plan as we see before us um just because it's been quite a bit of time so that's fine so this is as everybody knows the Stratton Hill proposal for the uh Molton construction and fox metal realy property off of right Road it's um a site that is about [Music] 40 about 140 150 acres total um it's divided about a third of the way in from um right Road by a power line easement that crosses it for New England power it is immediately adjacent to what was a 550 Acre Site that the same client um developed in GR with the limited development proposal of 84 units on 500 acres and he gifted a 430 acre Wildlife Sanctuary to mass aor that backs up to um the back portion of this site so the the Town Line is actually the border of the property that uh Mass Autobon owns as we looked at this so years ago um uh there was a sub division approved on this with a conventional development plan um and it's of record and Mr Molton has been paying taxes on the house Lots um and with me there's a lot of hot air so it's good opening the window um but in any event happily you guys did change your bylaw several years ago and Mr Molton wanted to do something more analogous to what we did on the Groton side on this side so that St the process that that got us back here a few years ago at this point as time went on the wisdom of keeping the development on the south side of the power lines presented itself it saves an enormous amount of roadway it makes it a much more efficient development um and it all will allow for a housing type that's different um really than a lot of stuff that's being often in town so the current proposal has 35 units they're all situated south of the power lines 34 34 excuse me yeah forgive me um we actually reduced it we had 35 before uh I needed to make the numbers work so we did reduce sticking at the trailer at the end of the road that's yeah exactly it's the first question we ever asked you how many units that's right it just it keeps moving but in any event there's 34 units they intended to be duplexes they actually could all be singles too all would have to do is move the units 10 feet a pattern we could actually have the exact same unit uh be single family uh on the same Lots uh there were two three common driveways um forgive me four common driveways that serve uh clusters of the Lots we did want to maintain and we did to the extent possible it's awfully tight we wanted to maintain the right hand or easterly portion of the subdivision road is not developed so that the open space would continue straight down to the Shore of Long Pond and we were able to accomplish that the open space itself now is 134.4 7 Acres that I have uh uh down pat and it's actually divided um into two portions the area um from the power lines to the back would actually overall one that we can see but the area from the power lines back would be conveyed to the Department of fisheries and wildlife um and the area closer to right Road there there are there's an open space series of open space B fils that surround the development um those would be conveyed directly to the town of aak to be held by the Conservation Commission there is as everybody knows a road that was roughed in years ago for the um more ambitious subdivision and that would be actually utilized as a trail to allow somebody to access the back portion and we've provided a uh parking area um on the subdivision Road where that could be accomplished um so that's kind of a an overview of what the development but let me go through this yeah I just want to step in real quick our our intent was to restore the road that was roughed in north of the north of the power lines um we've provided a parking area and a trail head that walks up to the uh up to the power lines but that's that's the extent of yes that's right because it's it's there I mean you can actually drive it with a a very decent vehicle I've been up there several times myself um now as as you correctly pointed out there's been a series of peer reviews and then responses and then reviews again and we are actually down to a very short list that really is associated with drainage so as all of you here will recall a portion of the drainage system for the larger uh subdivision was actually installed by Mr Molton and one of the things that we proposed was that we would maintain that portion as part of the drainage system for the surface runoff primarily because it's right next to the pond and it seemed um it did not seem environmentally sensitive to take something that was constructed that was intended and designed to serve more impervious cover um than it's going to serve now um it seemed like not a particularly good idea to dig all of that up and replace it with something that would meet current standards we've been quite upfront that in a couple of respects that design does not meet current sto storm water standards but it's actually overdesigned um so we've actually requested a waiver for that portion and those are the peer review comments that we're kind of left with there are other things that I wanted to report on very quickly we have been in consultation with Public Works regarding the sua I am assuming that and Matt has already provided me with a proposed contract that Dave could sign um that would allow us to join in with their redesign and reconstruction of that lift station so that's where you're going now well I'm assuming that that's okay with Mr Henderson then he is Mr Henderson he's he's the landowner cor so I've spoken with his attorney I do want to just confirm that that's fine with him we should be able to resolve that fairly quickly so will know one way or the other we would want to um and I'll provide a letter to this effect we would want to preserve the possibility of doing our own lift station given that we have the design for it God forbid Mr Henderson should change his mind and decide to appeal on that basis I don't see that happening but uh would want to make it I would want to make a condition regarding seage that it's to be worked out between us and public works there was an issue that Public Works had regarding part of the water main that was about 300 ft of the water M that had already been installed um and they had concerns about that where willing to just bite the bullet on that and put it in a new water man and be done with it okay all right there's actually there was um if I may there was quite a bit more than 300 ft installed and our our last proposal we had we had T taken out several 100 feet of that and then had suggested to use the initial par from right Road basically up the up the the main access but um uh We've since received comments from D DPW so we're just putting it the other way so we're we're we'll just put in a new one so the plans will reflect that change clearly they already do not the first 300 ft we'll fix that by the time we get yeah by the time we get to that point then um the fire department had expressed concerns about the units on the common driveways I don't know that I share that concern but it would not be an issue to sprinkle those homes um so you're willing to sprinkle yeah I mean that would be fine um I did give you a list of wavers yes um back in July um those actually still stand except we did um provide the test hole data some additional test hole data that had been requested and um we actually replaced we originally had kind of a little pathway at the down by the entrance that was concerned we've replaced that with a sidewalk so the the now there was a sidewalk on one side of the entire uh subdivision Road mhm and it so it goes from right Road yep all the way up the and around yeah yeah is that the oh oh good and that's the male kiosk up there on the right and that's the male kiosk right there correct right there yeah cuz we spent a lot of time talking about that last time we did thank you um but other than that I I can refresh the wer letter that I did back in July to correctly reflect the status of things but other than that the other W the requests haven't changed um I have had conversations with both the uh meepa unit in Boston and with the uh uh review biologist in charge of the site for the conservation management permit um she um the review biologist is aware of what we're doing she's seen the plans and I'm submitting a an amendment request that she will turn around um and give us a letter by the time I come back and see you guys next similarly I talked to the uh assistant director of the meepa program she agreed with me that this would not require renew filing um so but let me finish so I'll go through it one could request an advisory opinion um but she said chances are what we would tell you to do is the notice of project change and she said that actually makes the most sense she said I have a very difficult time believing that the change that I described would have higher imp impacts than the development that they already approved and given that work has been ongoing continuously since the um initial filing she did not have a a problem with the the the lapse of time issue because in her opinion there wasn't a laps of time we've been working on the permit for 19 years yeah but for clarification the work on the permit is the work because the permit consisted of Two Towns it was one permit exactly that's what I want to clarify right that's right um so in event I'm actually putting together the um notice of project change and getting it into them um I am going to wait until I have something back from uh the review biologist at natural heritage so I can include that I'm hoping to uh strong arm and um uh gagan into providing some some nice uh letter uh that's supportive of it and we may well provide a letter from a couple of other uh authorities of why this is a good idea but I actually on the basis of the conversation that I had yesterday I have absolutely no hesitation that that's the way this thing will go um the only other question that I actually had uh oh forgive me before I get to that um Frank has actually done the storm water uh application in the and I gave that yep and I think that and I brought the checks to your office I think no you gave me the checks and the signature pages for the notice of int forgive me the notice of in which will be going out that's correct but um but in any event we'll get you the application on the storm water um for next time push for that and then um I just want real quick while we're talking about C CMP and meepa U Danny if you could flip to the plan that shows the restoration um of the uh next one yeah so uh what we flagged on that if you scroll down a little bit more so kind of in the bottom right hand corner up a little bit right in there um is the area of for the the turtle restor the turtle yeah the turtle nesting area nesting area that that has been worked out with with um natural heritage and if I may that's a ttal nesting area that you're going to improve correct that's right have they already started nesting there because I'm getting confused remember was a site with there some that's way up higher so there there's another nesting area that was constructed in gron on Nate nutting road yeah and that's already done that was done yes yeah so something very familiar about that space I feel like I've walked that um there's there's piles up here that they've been nesting in that's piles where can you show me right oh that's where we've seen where we've seen them but isn't there a pile over here or am I hallucina that was Disturbed that was going to be part of the drainage system that's why we chose it cuz it's already near the exting gra okay yeah okay that's where the good soil is that the turtles like Yeah clean do you guys have plans for the you know the mounding plans with the you know on the on theot one we do I haven't seen the design yet on this one I I haven't seen those no yeah but I don't think I we have the design on this would that come from Dan Wells yeah it will so that would come from LEC environmental yeah okay no can I go back to the meepa conversation yeah so the expectation I guess of this board would that we would get a written response from e but not an oral response yes oh yeah yeah yeah and I mean I would think for your purposes you can include that as a as a condition yeah so that that would just be a condition because meepa is um it's independent it's independent of this but they can't start the work until they have that anyway so it would just be put as a condition the only thing have on the meepa uh thing so this is one big meepa submission that you had GR in and this one that's right okay so that was where I was misunderstanding because usually I didn't know that this included the northern portion of gr but now that I think about it no segmentation my discussions with you same same issue okay it's because of the come into this sleep yeah yeah okay yeah I don't really recall why the consultant we hired decided to do it that way because of segmentation they require that even if it's in differents anything that could be developed has to be at and cuz my thing was I didn't know that and I was saying this is a 10% change so automatically they drag you into that change but since it's a whole it it's kind of different yeah it is um but in any event so I don't think we have an ISS non contiguous land but go ahead okay um so in any event that's where we're at um the other thing I do have a question I wanted to ask but I have kept uh copious notes over the last several years of everything that we've talked about and everything we've agreed to most of which should find their way into a series of special conditions so I was going to actually do a letter reciting everything that you really need to be thinking about and I'll get it to you um that would be helpful that would be very helpful as you know as I wasn't here from that right beginning portion of this so and then be I really think we could you know kind of get to the point of wrapping this up um I do have a question about the duplexes though your bylaw is very interesting if I understand it correctly Panther place is the only other development thus far that's been approved under this section of the bylaw am I correct no no there two others there's two others so but in the same zoning District as we are in no no never been one in your owning District so did the the thing that's interesting when you read the verbiage um about the housing types and it says um one can have single family homes two family homes or multi-unit homes provided that the special permit requirements for the land use District are satisfied now it doesn't say provided that a special permit has been granted for the housing type the requirements to me that means that you go to section 3.4 b subsections 1 through six that recite what you're supposed to be thinking about and so long as that's addressed it could be incorporated into a definitive plan decision what I was because when you also read the bylaw in a totality it is attempting to efficiently deal with the approval process and yet the way the special permit is for two family homes in this District you would need to go to the zoning board of appeals which makes no sense that's the difference sorry Dan oh no I haven't seen did you amend the bylaw yes so the one that's online still says it the old way yes but if you go to the new Under the new laws of our zoning bylaws yeah it said it that was changed it shows the new good that makes sense I have no problem filing for a special permit to you guys it made absolutely no sense to me to start with another board that has had no involvement that was handled in the recent past but that having been said you might old news we did it before you might want to look at that language cuz I actually don't think we figured this out I actually don't think you have to do the special permit I personally think the way it's worded you might want to change change that language which what was the just get number 3.4 we issued a special permit subsections but that was A2 oh forgive me haven't done one an A1 so it we already checked the fact that they still were the authority having special it would still be the same way even in the old regulations didn't they didn't need the new changes to to enable that that's what I'm getting but if you look at section 10.1.3 that's what I was trying to look for okay that's you'll see what I mean it doesn't say provided there's been a grant says provided that the requirements are met you might want to tighten that language as a housekeeping thing someday we like it the way it is it's free advice yeah you know I understand you correctly Council you're the argument you're making is that as long as you satisfy the actual requirements of the permit you don't actually have to physically get the approval well yeah yeah you know from a design standpoint is that true um and it depends that it really does depend I have no problem verbiage it depends on the verbiage I understand how you can read that but based on what Ken has just told me is on the Shaker mil Pond project which is the same same zoning different zoning but they still had the same kind of requirement for duplexes for duplexes and they did a special permit yes then I have no problem doing it so I'll file that you know within the week yeah and that's easier but you might want to look at that language and Dave janeski to tighten it up I already have that highlighted and I will make a note of that yeah because somebody in the future could you know give you some issue um so in any event that's everything that I had to thank you page 119 101.6 okay we got our overview yeah now we got the slot okay so what I want to ask you is can we identify the the any the most important open issues that uh the councel hasn't been able to resolve in the previous 20 minutes what sorry yes sir can I go back to that paragraph just for a second second Mr although it becomes academic second sentence in this paragraph is the important one yeah go back do you got up in front of you no I don't know so we had this we have we had a ruling on this before from Town Council and from the billing commission and it's the second sentence it basically says the subdivision approval which is under the control of the plan doesn't say this it's under the control of the planning board but it is thanks and special perit site plan requirements shall be fulfilled concurrently in one proceeding to the extent practicable so it was interpreted that because of that second sentence we were the special permit granting Authority for the special which makes sense D which makes sense that's why that sentence was there so the thing that I would change if it were me instead of saying is ass satisfied yeah yeah right you know it should say provided you know that there was a grant of a special special PR has been granted that makes more sense got it thanks 31 I'm happy to submit it's no big deal I've got the application um well and I can God knows I can put together verbiage extoling the virtues of this off the top of my head I believe the only outstanding issues other than the waivers are the business about the drainage um which again I've requested a waiver on that um meepa and CMP which I've given you information on M and and I don't think I think we've beaten this thing into the ground I honestly do think we've touched on everything else and and forgive me because I often struggle with the technical aspects but there were questions about some of the in previous infrastructure being recycled and uh being the pre you know with the rough up roads and then DPW saying no there's some that we we really want new we don't want crossovers we want it to be aligned correctly with the new road and I know you spoke earlier about the 300 ft but I don't know if that encompassed all that so all the water will be new yeah all of it's going to be new it's all resolved now no it's not okay that's what I'm doing let's let's I want to make sure because I we have Clarity here okay that's so what I would uh there are I first I would what I would want to do is have Jim right just kind of go through what he you know the high the the important things that good have been discussed um we had there was a DPW meeting a meeting at the DPW office on September 26 right around there I forget if the exact date it was 26 or something like that thought it was the 23rd um I could not be present I was sick that day so Jim and um Dan and Matt were actually present at that meeting for that so they can speak a little bit more about the the other concerns that came up during that meeting as well as part of the peer review so I think the first thing I would do is to turn it over to Jim for him to give you know his uh what he sees that is most importantly that needs to be discussed from this one is there any way we can enlarge Jim's image on the uh screen yep I just need to stop sharing that's what I want to see welcome Mr Thorp hey how you doing can you hear me yes okay great evening um so I guess we can start with um the drainage um so uh one thing that we did discuss um you know outside the planing board meetings um was the two existing storm Water Management areas um near right Road um there's existing Storage storage Management Area 1 a and one um so those ones are like I said they're existing and planning on reusing them um for their design um we had concerns about them reusing it because based on our field um site visit we noticed that it was standing water in there um so we requested that they do additional test bits um and they did do uh many additional test fits for one a um they didn't do any for one um but they have some test fits nearby um restoration so the ones for 1 a um appeared to show adequate separation of groundwater um but we still felt that they needed to be remediated if they were going to be reused so uh afcan has updated their plans to REM both storm Water Management areas um basically Excavating 2T of soil out and replacing it with sand two feet of sand so that they have good free draining material um and that should give us you know the separation of groundwater um you know for one a and then for one uh like I said uh there weren't additional test foots actually in one but they're nearby based up the nearby test bits it appears that there probably would be adequate separation of groundwater um but um you know it's hard to tell because this site has ledge every you know randomly throughout the project so if they were take a test with there they could potentially hit ledge they could potentially not you know you don't know um so it could be okay but it might not be um so that's you know kind of what's happening in that area um the other Basin the new Basin which is up to the north of the site um they did uh many more additional test bits in that area as well um under existing condition that's a very like sloped area um so where they did test fits um show at least four feet to bedrock or um uh water uh so high ground water um but uh you know as it kind of slopes to the right the lowest point there isn't like a tespit there um so it's kind of hard to tell but most likely it would probably have adequate separation of groundwater um because it does seem like it is kind of all sloping to the right in terms of either Bedrock or groundwater um oh consistently sling down I mean um so it does seem like you know we're moving in the right direction in terms of drainage and in the Basin uh design um and you know we've gone back and forth about drainage areas and hydrocad calculations to support that and I think we're at a good point where um you know we finally come to an agreement on their calculations as well um so so you know that's kind of the other the other part of it is um you know there is a regulation that there're supposed to be like perk testing within it um you know to you know confirm that it does you know drain like the RS rate so um I know that's a town standard but not necessarily a state standard the state standard is you know whatever soil type it is you can use a RS rate for infiltration purposes which is what they're doing so U they haven't used the perk perk test or any infiltration testing um you know we may suggest that as part of like a condition of approval if we're you know still hes hesitant about some of these areas is that like maybe post construction they do an infiltration test to confirm know before will infiltrate properly um but I think that's kind of where we're at in terms of drainage um anyone I think Frank wants to comment Jim um if I may Jim just re real quick on on that um I just want to say that we're not we're not just we didn't just dig a test pit and look at the soil and assume a an infiltration rate uh what we did was in lie of a per percolation test we instead uh sent the soil out for testing at a at a Yan Yankee Testing Lab in Worcester so we have we have laboratory Civ analyses for for the drainage so um I I I look at that professionally as a as a higher standard of um infiltration rate determination a percolation test doesn't quite directly trans translate but a Civ analysis is what um is kind of the mass D storm water standard for infiltration and you've got that and we have that and provided that in our calculations okay thank you um Matt are you good did you are you guys okay with that I think that's pretty reasonable okay and I agree that that is kind of a step up of what's normally required for there of project so it sounds like James also oh sorry can you just come come yeah because I'm gonna have a couple more questions for you as we're going sure thanks Matt yes um yeah I know I think everything that was just said I I agree with I don't have any major concerns right now with storm water the so the only thing I would raise as a concern uh for myself um and I just may be wearing extra is just the uh no test pits up in the existing Basin one a or uh number one my hesitancy there is you know as Jim did say that there is possibility for uh um ledge and we actually just ran into this is issue with uh air Solar 2 uh where they uh installed an infiltration Basin on top of ledge and now it doesn't infiltrate so so that's a that's a concern that I have um is you know yes we did some test the test bits were done all the way down here but none were actually done within the existing basing I would prefer that one of you know that there is a test pit that's done in that area just so that that that worry that I have of um a previous project uh not current and if if because you're counting that towards your infiltration right yes that that that's included in the whole system so we can and that would affect get out there and take care of that yeah we can we can provide that's the resolution we'll get that done yeah all right okay I agree with you on that um and that Basin is just for my understanding I think there's the catch basins on the street discharge to it as well as um I think the last two catch basins on Str Hill y discharge and just um the Topography is off on this plan but that Basin that's between the low Basin and that middle Basin there that we're talking about that's actually higher than where where we found uh two feet plus of Separation in ledge so so I'm I'm ledge Rises and Falls yes Le ledge Rises and Falls but what we've found with our test pits consistently in this site is that in general it's Falling Towards Long Pond um given all all all the other testing that's been done out out there that we the really good stuff that we can't use that drives me nuts because it's on the wrong side of the uh of the the power LS yeah but it it is overdesigned too I mean it's designed to so the what what that was what the intent of of that lower Basin was to basically my my my numbers are going to be round here so forgive me but it was something like 2 Acres of impervious with the original d double barreled Road configuration and we're down to about one acre of impervious that that's coming to to that so so that's it's it's as far it's seeing um essentially 50% of the flow that it was originally designed and and constructed for now I think that's smart for all of us in the future like to have given what's been going on the last couple um and I I also want want to note um that I've I've seen water in that Basin but most of the time M it's it's it's dry um uh over the well I when when when I did Tas pits out there there was no issue walking around in it um the last probably dozen times have been out on the site the the Basin has has been dry I've been out there after the upper Basin or the lower one uh the lower B BAS where all the test pits are primarily that that's where all all all the test pits are empirically this year yes last year I would say no yeah so we're neighbors so we and we got to get all the silt out of there a clean not last year one of it's going to change everything you have to do it I they excavate the top two feet said yeah last year one one of the issues was rainstorm after rainstorm after rainstorm back to back and the design standards for an infiltration Basin um is drains 72 hours from when flow stops is when it needs to be empty so if flow keeps hitting a basin over and over and over again that 72-hour timeline doesn't start until the last one the last one so you you can continuously have water in an infiltration Basin and have have it function yeah so that that's part of what I've been seeing out there um I guess one point to I know last year with all the rain and also last year we noticed that the Basin overflowed obviously there was a lack of maintenance for quite a while since it was sitting for years um and Frank mentioned one of the unique points about the Bas is usually it all falls downhill toward the pond like the other you know the larger Bas and generally Falls yeah it can it if it overflows it overflows toward the pond but in that spot it actually is you know downgrade of the pond so it can't overflow um so it's very important you know even if that is overdesigned that is a good thing just in the event that if there is a lack of Maintenance or just one of those storms like last year um that that doesn't happen that would all go down um Standish you have uncont control that's it's been cheating off the Standish for years exactly right and and it it could be in a perfect world we would do a drain pipe down Standish yet but since that is a private road we can't do that and one thing so water has been sheeting down the basically the the gravel road bed yeah without much of any drainage structures to capture it once once this is is constructed there'll be curb gutter series of catch basins that'll catch that that that will direct the water where it was always intended to go and the the the down end of sers road you can tell it scrubs out fairly heavily down there yeah yeah um the only other things I had questions about were these catch basins are they being removed so those um those ones there I believe are being repositioned um that's where the the new um road is going in and they'll be positioned appropriately so those are as shown on shet they'll be so that's the right hand if you're looking at up to the property the new road will be where the right hand road is and it'll be widen toward the left yes yeah so we're we're we're re with the left am I got it wrong well as you're looking at the edge of the road it'll be yeah we're those those catch that those two cat catch basins at the bottom of the hill there are going to be repositioned so that they're where they need need to be in in the gutter line cuz yeah they're currently in the other Road yes yeah so my concern with that is those catch basins and that sewer manhole and that piping has not been maintained for 20 years um who knows what condition that's actually in well but it's going to be moved anyway dug up and moved you know essentially dug up and moved yeah so yes but not the PIP I mean the the existing piping is my issue is that's that so this is what my biggest concern with this project is the existing utilities I really don't uh agree with the reusing of the existing utilities as it's been there for 20 years not functioning at all no maintenance nothing I don't think we're using any of it at this point well so we're we're using a little bit of the drainage and um some of the some of the the the sewer but the sewer we're going to satisfy Matt we we are actually have already had a guy out there that did a pressure test on it and if we can't satisfy math then we'll just install new so preferably so my biggest concern with that was there's always something that can go wrong when you have kind of a won there is I hate to say wonky plan but kind of an unusual plan and I I I um appreciate I guess being creative and trying to reuse what's there and try not make it a bigger project but at the same time I think there's definitely I I agree with Danny there are some legitimate concerns I think something can go wrong with with trying to follow what's and I don't disagree with you what I'd like to suggest is will provide testing if we can't satisfy you we'll just put in new um I mean there's really no precedent I guess to fall back on with this so it's I guess um my take on it was if the planning board had comments to I guess the last thing I really wanted to do here was I guess to make a decision on kind of an unprecedented topic I mean my concern is is you know it's like Danny said it's been in the ground for 20 years and I think you know strange way it might actually be easier for you to just do everything new to not have I guess definitely this almost in the way of your other work I'm going to make I'm going to make a suggestion and I'm going to say Bob money you don't have to do the testing I'm going to make a motion that this planning board agree that all the utilities in the site be new not reuse any utilities in the site well You' have a decision I mean if if you want that go ahead and do it if he doesn't like that then perhaps he'll I'm thinking it through do something else thinking through and the reason I'm thinking no and I'll be honest with you the reason I'm thinking it through is uh great when you say all I second it so we can then talk about yeah I second it discussion no you can C me my experience is similar with mats uh despite the fact that you try to reuse something it'll get broken just moving it out of the ground training around trying to reseal the seals trying everything will dry out the the the G the correct concrete that you use will be dried out and cracked the uh nonshrink grouts will be no good whatever the case might be the whole thing will have to be reset to new grade so my anticipation is that it goes in new you put in new product you put it where you want it gets tested accordingly and the DPW is happy and we have a new product that no one can question later on that we made a decision that says wait a minute we help them use reuse something that was old I don't want to be in that category and this is going to eventually be an approved accepted or Ro by the DPW would have full control of the I want DPW I don't we talking about very much of it doesn't so little then let's we don't have a discuss Do It um what I'm so if we go to P sheet five um the catch basins at the end of the road that we we've been talking about are called out as to be replaced um we are but you're reusing the existing lines the piping right that's that's an issue for me because that's been I mean if you go out there those grates are full to the top with silt and which tells me that that pipe is probably also filled to the top with silt and stone and gravel well I agree with Ken though let's just simplify it vote on yeah cuz really as an issue you don't want it I'm thoroughly sick of trying to save 15t fur discussion before we go to vote any further discussion I just think um it's a point where we get micromanaging and there are professionals who have permits and will be on site to accept these things um I would I would leave it to the the on-site inspections by DPW regard of what the outcome is they they have to own it at the end I I wouldn't I don't think it's it's for the board to be that granular that makes sense to DPW we just wanted to obviously not make it a hard decision if there was an opinion on it but you know our opinion DPW is definitely there's more that can go wrong I guess trying to reuse old then you know obviously starting over new I think that would make everyone more comfortable all right um any other comments Ken how do you vote yes Julie yes Nathan no Jeff yes chair vot ey okay well that simplifies stuff but thank you now we don't have to go fiddling around at the plan what's being reused what's being not reused that lower Basin has been the thorn on the side of people in that neighborhood for 20 years orever yeah it's been the thorn in your side I know you've modified the road you've done skirting you've done all that stuff it just sounds to me like it's the right thing to do yeah as long as we don't have to pull around with the Basin I'm happy also they call it Santa elf Pond I think it's in everyone's interest to remove potential areas of controversy that could create surface area that's right for okay thank you um all right so the next thing I I go uh turn it back over to Jim for any additional and it's Thorn I'm I apologize to you Jim I'm sorry it space good day no wores if you would continue sir um so now that I guess we're we're in agreement that all new utilities should be uh used um I know you know the W and I had uh expressed um concerns about the utility layout um because they were reusing existing pipes so now that we are using new pipes I think the applicant should relook at uh laying out um yes you know the sewer and water lines to be to make more sense we can we can make adjustments that's easy to that's right once we we've cleared it makes sense to just get it right yep okay good what else we got Jim um let's see I mean those were kind of the major ones yeah I didn't see any other stuff I think there was some stuff there are some other you know comments i' like Danny leet it if he could you know like in terms of the layout um you know I know last play meeting wen't sure if you know the three unit um shared driveway was um allowed I think there was um a rule about 30 ft separation between different driveways so um you know I just want to make sure that the layout is okay with everyone um I think yeah so they're requesting a waiver from that and our biggest concern was you know coming from the fire department and now I feel that since that's addressed I feel like I'm I'm good with the uh the common driveways as well and if I um so the width of the the driveways was increased the size of your common Drive driveway standard great um and as well we have agreed to provide the sprinklers at those at those four common driveway units yep great um and then um so there was never uh like a water or water design or waste water design reports um that were you know originally requested as part of the application um so I don't know where we're at at that point if you know they still need to be submitted to gpw or where we're at is okay like the the water usage and Sewer he's got that um I don't believe we've gotten a full so there have been sewer numbers on the plans and there hasn't been a separate report and I remember when I first had started on this some of this um I had been going back and forth either with I would have to d double check the name and and it it had it had ended up in the dpw's court this was this was in the covid Years sure so um so so it may have um Fallen by the wayside but just to confirm but I think we Elations we provide so sewer flows were provided and I know that you know years ago Mark Wetzel and I had gone over there was sufficient flow for water in this area and but if if you need a formal memo with the current layout just to close the loop if you could just because this is a whole new submission you know that was that was after Mark wet and whoever it was that you guys were it was with the preliminary for this it's just so that you know cuz this is part of a whole new submission I mean it's the definitive sub so just just a just a memo that we could have so that you pumping up the extra half mile of the road either no no that's we're not doing the massive Pump Station far end that I I I couldn't understand why they were doing that so so okay so for water and two are just kind of two big picture things since the initial approval way back in the day um so right Road was just a deadend water main yes um but that that's not been moved through too yeah correct um so that improves uh the Water aspect it does I think some of my numbers might reflect that original um dead end right right Road dead dead end so if you have any um any updated pressure information or flow information there well so that's test at the bottom of the hill so that's exactly where I was going with this um that was one of the condition or one of the proposed uh conditions of approval I would prefer that those happen prior to uh approval uh just so that we know that the you know the the flow tests came out normal I I agree it would just be good to have that on paper and if you're going to sprinkle you might have to figure out some sort of supplemental pump or something we'll see yeah you sprinkle buildings you got a whole pressure in there yeah do you guys do a separate meter on sprinklers when units are sprinkled uh we do yes okay so I'll talk to you about that MH okay and I I'll I'll arrange for fir flow test yeah okay and you'll just have to schedule with Matt and Dan the part this to I've typically been using um hydr Tech I don't know if there someone else who you deal with but who everyone uses they've been great I can use them we we've done our own uh fire flow tests in House Company wanted whoever that was I don't know we have a recent one but yeah I do remember looking back Frank years ago we were doing that and looking at both scenarios and our modeling I don't remember so long ago think we ever close totally this was a a a um a design when we were going we were still we were still going power lines you're probably going another 30 or 40 vertical feet over the space of a half a mile but I would think you could take the head there deal a memo it would stand to reason if it met it before it's going to meet it this time I I will coordinate testing with DPW and a and a contractor and we can close that Loop okay it would be good to just have all that on paper so everyone can reference that um in the sewer I know the pump station aspect was brought up so DPW has a project we actually put out for bid and boarded it at the last select board meeting oh that's where right I read I read that in the um in the I read about it in the materials so you're working with the so this is a we have to upgrade the Pu station just because the equipment's so old so we already had that in the queue but the way we designed it it's going to look exactly like it does today the initial design so when we met last year and the resident was here and he was very concerned that was a different design and he had some pretty legitimate concerns we've corrected those and he seems to be happy so and the appc is going to participate in the cost of plant also that's what we're requesting that's what we're intending in reading through the materials I saw that that's just want to make sure everyone hears that too that you know at one point you were going to build you were going to build we were going to do our own but uh if Mr Henderson had a concern but assuming that his concerns are alleviated which I would think they would be um it's going to be absolutely no different than we we're fine with helping out the the the department financially yeah and correct me if I'm wrong but the the D W's design of that pump station included the site future build future buildup which included our site exactly although the surface level what it would look like would look the same as today that's what we're trying to do and that's um Dan and I met with him and his attorney um and they seem to be happy didn't have any concerns and and I think just as part hard of the decision that would uh the the uh it would be a condition that you know the as long as it gets worked yeah that's right I I think we would just yeah that would just be put into the decision so that it's all you know buttoned up can you had something yeah Mr chairman I'd like to make a little clarification regarding Mr Henderson in my humble opinion it's not just Mr Henderson who had a concern it was the neighborhood that had a concern so from the very beginning the neighborhood has been questioning whether we did the right calculations on DPW had the right calculations to accept that extra flow yeah and that they used the stump station that was like a secondary issue but the concern in the neighborhood is also that any development in the neighborhood might overstress the system that was in the neighborhood so I want to make it clear that DPW is going to provide the information to us that that there will be no overstress in the neighborhood not just whether one person who happens to have a pump station on his land is the person that's concerned we're trying to answer a concern of the right Road neighborhood that this project can easily be you know taken on to the existing they replaced the new Sue pump station is what I'm getting at so that's what I'm I'd like to keep the conversation away from one individual and broaden it yeah to the neighborhood in general who has concerns about that thank you a little technical question I was just curious that with all these Chang are any do any of the units need e1s under the current plans or have we limited those so so so the units in the um so in the back corner way up on the right way up the units way up in the right so those 21 22 23 and 24 need E1 units and um because we looked at grading to bring those units up and we'd be chasing grading or retaining walls into Long Pond yeah it was GNA yeah so they'll have little this limits the the disturbance to outside of uh jurisdictional areas and we refer to E1 that's a product L but correct saying is a forced main a forced sewer system for each house a yes individual one there is an individual unit and Force main for each house y for for for unit 21 22 23 and 24 may I ask I can't see from you it on the they going to be brought up to the street and leave by gravity yes so the current layout um uh currently tying into an existing pipe which we'll be addressing yeah um so Force man from 24 comes up and into a manhole got it 23 into a manhole um this one comes this way this one comes yeah this one comes directly in and then directly in yep and then from that point gravity will take care of I'll need to double check my my what I'm saying it might just be 23 and 24 I was overzealous in in my called it out only on these correct yeah so I I only called it out for 23 and 24 right so yeah it's it's just that unit would have a grinder pump thank you you're welcome yeah I prefer grinder pump over cuz y it's like cleanex yeah Coke Kleenex well because the the problem is I design around E1 because they're great to work with and then the contractors build on Liberty which is also a fine pump but they are not as as good to work with as far as getting design CS that t like to see so all right um there were some additional uh you know comments that came up like uh the easement about uh from National Grid and AT&T um if that was going to be abandoned or um but it's not going to be so um it's it is an active I did run the title again wait a minute AT&T is active we're talking about two easement two easements yeah yes so the AT&T easement that's fairly recent and I yeah I it was re it runs like somewhere right around here no run I across the diagonal just ran over it yeah I'm trying to find like a oh right we design we worked the units around that easement so that it doesn't have to be we don't have to address I do not believe that they would be inclined to abandon it it's it's abandoned right down the street from my house gu yeah but I and he literally bought the the switching building from them yeah I I'm more than happy to approach them on it but you know there actually is an easement that was signed with them less than 20 years ago so I tend to believe that for whatever reason they want it I don't know for what it doesn't go anywhere with this but does the does the give you the ability to build on it or anything like that well we ar building on it well cuz doesn't it run through I mean the road where where's the the problem is you can't really see it see Road runs across the road acrosses the road the Ean give you the ability and that we can yes but there are no structures proposed there are no structures I just know with utility companies Sometimes some easements don't allow you any of that yeah no that that because it's subsurface it it's got a C on it's fine is in one of the houses right here not on that e but it's not on the EAS we kept it off and does it allow grading and so I just I think I would just need a copy of the easement to see that it shows me it's wide open okay I just want to make sure wide open and then the second Ean is the uh n yeah but that's that's up which they're not even touching there was a weird there was a comment wait hold on there was one I you look at 26 Jim noted that even though I can't even read this it's so small it's 26 A okay I got it no permit structures proposed within okay we got that but there was something about the New England power one the approval shall be provided PRI to construction from National Grid yes for work in yeah but we but there AR there isn't any work in it so at this point that's moot yeah no I don't believe it is moot that's I don't know what he said but I well if we're going to give the land to somebody we have to know what that we can even what the the thought of the Mass wildlife begin at the south side of the easement or the north side of the easement stop right there so you're saying Mass wildlife wants it take the land from the south edge of the easement right I would have to go to the lot plan I actually forget how the pel are laid out can you go to the lot plan Danny um yeah this one's the beginning of it this is the uh upper portion here we go so keep going down scroll down slowly oh other scroll up do you have see this is the top is right there no it's this it's right here cuz here's the power easement that's the top of it or the south of it when I'm ask that's the top of it that's the top of it right that's the north Edge yep but if Mass wildlife is taken from the south Edge oh we're giving it to them you're giving it to them someone has to the power company has to grant them a way to get across that ement so it's the South Edge so open space to is the South Edge correct yeah y so right here so there has to be a document in place that says that we can put a trail up to the edge of that and we can send people to cross it well my de is going to we're gifting it to them no they have to give us the the right to walk under it and go through it oh New England power yes that's a we aren touching it doesn't matter I believe we can go under there without some kind of authorization or send people under there on a trail let's I have I mean I'm more than happy to approach them but we are not doing any construction I heard earlier in the conversation that you were going to repair the road that's currently up there it passed pass they had permission right here passed they don't have they don't have permission yet power has never given this applicant permission to do that work under the road they're power lines it's past the power lines it's the power L pass under the power lines to get to it Ken's Ken's point is the section between the South and the north side of the easement might need permission from the England power company exactly to pass and repass yes so it sounds to me like it's something that has to be looked into I mean I've got the documents we can argue it all you want yeah I mean I'll the one thing I I do not believe I you know I don't you know it's there I don't believe I need a trail easement from them it's there people can walk there now they do Hunters do I know that yeah but that doesn't mean it's right when you put a subdivision in there they have easement on our land correct you gave their permission to go do anything they want so but they need to give you permission when you build this out well I'll certainly approach them but we're not doing any construction under those power lines okay so the road that's there now that Dave roughed in we gave them notice before he did it and they didn't complain that's going to be part of the trail but we aren't touching it this time around okay I just tell you right now this is going to keep coming up and up and up let's get it resolved um there were some other items of condition of approval like showing uh horizontal line M on the radi of the curves on the plans I think all those kind of minor technical things should just be done done done those more or less yeah yeah I think they should just be done and that way when we get the approved set of plans we're not making another construction set with additional stuff on it that the planning board did not approve I just I just want to make sure that everything is just if it's labeled if ites if it needs to be labeled just make sure it's labeled um the we we talked about the percolation test so that's okay [Music] um the Swip so that's going to come in with the storm water management plan y um but the uh it'll obviously be a condition in there to submit for and uh uh a nipt permit and the you know through the EPA and all that stuff um providing an elicit discharge compliance statement as part of the storm water management permit you'll need to do and as well as the on andm signed by the owner M um so uh I think that that'll also come with the storm water management permit so this eliminates a lot of these conditions of approval ones M um the biggest one I also think we need to discuss is blasting oh so that's comment 105 and 106 so about three years ago I had suggested that we would give you a condition language as far as hours of operation and when it could be done and the fact that everything was staying on site so I can still do that yeah and then I would just want to make sure so I would also prefer to get uh notification or get the pre-blast surveys when you get do the pre-b surveys of the you know surrounded with with 100 300 ft I think it is um of blasting that that gets submitted to the planning board prior to blasting as well as uh submitting after every blasting you know good blasting reports I think that's statutory actually so it's I mean typically it's submitted to the fire department but I want to make sure it's get submitted to to myself as well just so that I can review it U and make sure there's no any issues because I have run into uh occasions where um there was blasting done and a uh neighbor made a complaint that you know oh my Foundation cracked from this but they were well outside the 300 ft and so it just I just want to make sure I have all the information in case someone comes in yep sure I had somebody not let us in for a pre-blast so I gave him a waiver to sign we were inside that house within minutes yeah funny how that works um just over next the hydrants uh being reviewed by the uh oh wait no that's the fire department one which obviously you guys will be meeting with the fire department before blasting going do a water flow analysis for the whole project that's part of it too yep um we talked about the no was Wastewater design um you know report cuz you guys are going to submit that again update it same with the water um we talked about the flow test um there was a comment about existing conditions um but you guys did update the existing conditions um onto stish Road and right Road uh showing off the uh additional grades um see um so there was a comment 126 it says as built plans and profiles of previously constructed sewer remains on right road that are proposed to be reused and submitted by the applicant so those are going to be eliminated so be eliminated yeah I I started to pull those together together those will be eliminated provided that we're doing the gravity connection which it sounds like that's that's the way we're everything is trending yeah um so that brings up so those pipes exist right now would would we just it's double check the diameter I think it's four or 6 in 4 in would you is that something you want F filled or just left um given that it's I mean if it was bigger than if it was six or eight I would probably recommend flow filling I think that's what our DPW specs actually say they say larger than six it's flow the opposite it's just a cut like soil it turns to concrete nice stuff so sorry they're probably full of junk anyway at this point potenti clarification flow very viscous concrete that you pump into utilities that you don't want to dig up y oh so that when they collapse they don't create don't create voids are smaller than standard practice is you don't do that on smaller pipes in part because it's it's almost impossible to pump of course the concrete into them you you get a little swug each end viscus and that's the word it's too viscous right um the other one was hydrant locations uh if you could just meet with the fire department and discuss that and get that on the planed be before approval okay you know I have a question about flow fill I'm glad I have the DPW here when a series of pipes be they sew water whatever crosses under a m right away do you guys recommend back filling with flow fill versus back filling and compacting with legitimate soils as a better procedure um protect everything's protected and it doesn't settle the same exactly yeah there there's usually a compaction issue where you have over time it settles out exactly would you consider that what you can't see is Dan's head shaking up and down you just can't see you can hear it but you can't see it cross crossing intersection you know where the loop comes around or something like that consider it anyway defer to DPW um requirements but I mean I so I have run into um issues where towns have not wanted flowable fill around ductal iron pipe because of the the um the acidic nature of the fly ash can lead to um Pro problems with that that but you know um more famili with electrical Crossings and things like that where you know you can get separation and the pipes can pick up stones and whatnot um I would I personally use it in areas where we're working in kind of a finite existing C Crossing yeah where where we're constructing a road um that's that's less Santa gravel bit yeah yeah we we U following good General construction practices um kind of preclude the need for flow will fill in those sitations I shouldn't have brought it up um I still water hammer and flow will F so where we go where are we now Danny uh so I'm skipping down to 190 cuz all the other ones were water and sewer stuff which have already been addressed now that we're doing you know the things are being changed um and that they're going to provide us with a new report with a report updated um uh Danny can I just I'm sorry to interrupt but is is Jim still there as he we were working with him okay I didn't he was under plans Jim like under the pl he was there for the meeting and then we left without him I'm sorry I hijacked you he's used to it engineer I figured he would have spoken up but I didn't know what was happening looks like the 190s all going to come as they finish out the app as they finish out the pie yeah so now that they're going to be submitting the storm water management permit with all the additional construction schedule and you know in all that kind of information that's okay um they're asking for a um so these are the ones that I think we should discuss as well the applicant oh wait no that's addressed because that's the condition of approval they're going to submit under storm water management at that now we're getting to like the newer comments um which uh are in yellow um so 2011a there is no proposed grading associated with the gravel aess driveway to provide for proposed grading to confirm it's not too steep for the maintenance vehicles uh the grading revisions have been made but the proposed uh slope exceeds the maximum slope Allowed by section um 7B 2 a this was one that I wanted to discuss with Jim just uh we had added uh so this is with the grading a the uh the Basin access off of right Road MH um so I I just wanted to double check because we we we've kind of followed existing grade followed that existing roadway in so I I I I wanted to follow up with Jim just on what specific areas and we'll we'll get that cleaned up okay um [Applause] the other information is just stuff that they're going to still address in this next revision so but you mean like all that the capping and gate valve exact is a a water valve comment yeah um two um 218 will will provide will provide a fence um I I Al I didn't want to talk about that this is a detention area next to a pond yeah the pond is deeper I mean we'll give you a fence if you want a fence but I think it's foolish that's right it's this it's not the other I was thinking of something else so I mean it's right next to the pond why would we put a fence there so the spot where it's where there's N9 or 10 ft can you pull it up yeah if you want to pull up that it's going to be helpful if we all look at where it is yeah so the grading I'm going to walk back up again sorry John I turn so if we show so there they are right there kind of yeah so so I believe what where Jim is talking is the 256 Contour at the top of basin one it drops down to 246 in Basin 1 a so that's that's kind of the area where where there's the the big drop here it's you know two it's there's four fet into this Basin it's about four four 4T so where to put actually I can uh see like which area I yeah sorry you want to be in the meeting and see it to Jim it's this area uh okay I so that is actually not where I was talking about defense um because so where I was talking about putting a potential fence um I don't know if it's necessarily needed or not but the the proposed Basin to the north oh the one the big one further yeah the one to the north yeah I know this one right here yeah that one if we go to the grading plan on that one um it's the grading plan it it really uh dips down on the right side of it where if you look at um yeah uh if you can keep maybe maybe go to sheet c5.0 there we go up one y okay so you can see there's like the 272 Contour on like that right side yeah and then 262 is not that far away uh so it goes down to 270 right there so 270 is the low point and I think it goes you know the Basin overflows at U like 279 yep 2796 so that's like 9 ft of ponding of water in there like8 9 ft of ponding of water uh before it uses the Overflow so um you know anytime I see you know ponding that deep uh usually it's considered like a safety concern yeah so I it's like you know a smaller portion of the Basin not the entire Basin but um I just wanted to kind of note that the comment so uh we do have Gates and uh for one of the previous comments from DPW we put guard guardrail see um I I think we we we could incorporate safety fencing on that to to but but before you were great that those fences are unsightly it is next to a pond you're talking you're talking about a chain link fence yeah they're unsightly I mean if I were living in that neighborhood I would not want to see a fence there part of what we were trying to do was enhance the natural appearance of the right hand side and that's going to be something the town is going to have to take care ofing of some sort so I I agree I understand where you're coming from but for us cuz we are going to be accepting the road eventually it is a safety concern for the town I but I want you to really think about it because I think that's a really bad idea okay it's going to be ugly um it goes against what we were trying to do and by the way that's a road right that's a road right there at it correct yeah it's going to get plowed in and it it will be a it will be a maintenance nightmare for you guys and I don't think you need it it's next to a pond um well we don't have to spend any more time on that do we yeah but so I'm not agreeing to it I just want to tell yeah I'm not agreeing to that that goes against what Mr Molton wanted to do here which was to create a really nice Ambiance a chainlink fence is not a nice Ambiance I hope I don't offend anybody so chain link fence also and child that says come over here and see what's hidden behind the chain link fence if you if it's not there doesn't even attract any attention I I agree I mean that's that's one of I know I I'll have to we also have to look at our regulations CU I don't know what we but regulations are there to be waved that's why their regulations not bylaws hold on so a so listen it's getting right so where are we on this list Jim is there more that you want to lead us through this evening sounds good to me uh no I I think I think that's it yeah I think items two um 219 and 222 are kind of calculation book bookkeeping yeah um I Jim I apologize I have no idea how the 100-year Cals didn't end up in that version of the report the one that I reviewed had them so I'm I'm not sure what H happened in the process of PDF in and getting that out out to you but they were done um so we'll get you those and we'll clean up those other couple of items yeah it just seemed like you know pretty minor comments yellow ones utilities yeah I guess the the 218 with the F and you know having the Deep Bas thank you so two weeks okay I I want to discuss where we are in next steps I understand one of the things that the council has offered is to do a letter yeah with a almost a punch list of conditions of what you need to be thinking about okay would you be and when do you anticipate submitting that I should be able to get that to you within the next couple of weeks Frank tells me he can turn the plans around in a couple of weeks what is your meeting schedule like so our next two meetings are November 12th and the 28th so the 12th is or 26th 26th sorry let me just double check that 12 be very tight to have revised so November 12th November 26th and then our next meeting is December 10th so I'd say let's shoot for the let's go to the 26 I would think the 26 would be achievable are weting the 26 of November yeah WN no that's Thanksgiving well it's a Tuesday let's look at that the Tuesday before Thanksgiving I know really we get the week off so as of now we have a meting schedule week off every now and again um so Thanksgiving falls on the 28th 28th on the 28th we would have a the 26th is the meeting I mean I don't have a problem with it but if you guys but I need to check with my board members to make sure we have everyone here so they can all vote deliberate and vote and that's what's really important yes would if if we were to schedule for the 26 is there anyone on the board who would be would miss that can we do this I'm just double saying yes I'm yes Julie says yes I'm waiting on Ken and I'm here okay good Jeff Ken you okay 26 would would you be able to get us you know the other information like the meepa and the I would think by that point all have something acknowledgements anyway and then we'll you know those should be conditions Jim will also need time to review the final product and and be able to turn around a final letter so I you know I'm not going to say that we're going to be voting on the 26th but um you know we we'll see where where we are with what's being submitted and how much time Jim has as well as how much time I have to review get you know get his letter provide a draft like this is going to be a big decision so yes it will I I I'm not going to commit to being ready for the 26 for a vote sense because we also have waivers that we need to vote on and discuss um we also need to I know open space is another topic that needs to be discussed as well um hasn't even seen the project yet yes so so conservation has not uh been submitted for the noi which was something that we did discuss as well that'll be this week yep uh so they need to submit for that and we need the Conservation Commission only has one meeting in November so so it'll be on that one and they will not close until December so yeah and I and there's no D circuit Rider at this point so it's going to be at least December by this point until we get comments back and I wouldn't feel comfortable approving that because that's that's one of the storm water management Part Parts uh that they're uh so then maybe we should just go to the 10th yeah I mean it would be good to get us the information as soon as you absolutely but why don't we jump the meeting until December 10th I yeah at least you know for the initial yeah for our initial reconvene to discuss where we are with everything yeah I think the December 10th meeting would would help but I don't know I mean we're still going to want to make sure that through the process of the noi they're there the storm they also need to submit for the storm water management permit which remember we need to do legal notice Butters all that kind of stuff for that but you can do that at the same Mee and then we'll open it and so just there's still quite a bit of of things that need to be done so I'm not going to the I'm not going to commit to the next meeting having a vote is what I'm saying definitely not there will be more than one meeting at at least and do just in terms of timing if we if the next meeting is is the December 10th the the latest letter from councelor Collins give us we'll need an extension because goes to November 30th yeah so I'll new extension letter so we need a new extension letter yep and as soon as you get the letter from the I'd love to sit with you and go over it yes condition and we'll only have that one meeting in December correct yes correct yeah because we don't have the anything on the 24th thanks and um schedule Jim no we don't have anything at all Danny and Matt I'll I'll reach out to you guys tomorrow about when when we think we um to have plans to you meeting H okay and just just to kind of coordinate that giving you a day off this year I think at this point too just we've looked at the plan so many times we'll be able to not take too long yeah I I mean I I would want to have them to you holding them up with the light behind it right went over the other with light behind I've done that it works well it works well where did he change that well the best thing is when people are ask you what are you doing that's why I finally got a light table my arms are getting tired been close I taped into the big windows in the office um yeah yeah I'll I'll I'll look at our internal SC schedules and and let you know and have something to do a ideally a couple weeks ahead of time yeah and taking into account thank Thanksgiving I don't see DPW taking longer than a week to review at this stage and then open space you can we can actually do the meeting remotely if weather is bad right so so that's fine if it's necessary y but we're looking at the 10th of December and what about the open meeting you want to have a special I want to at least have a meeting for the open space so that would be after the 10th yeah cuz I think or maybe the 10th I don't know we'll see before the well we have to just unless we do have a meeting on the 26th about just specifically the open space might be worth that's what I'm saying I'm on that one topic can I just speak to that yes please so when you go and review the the open space plans and and in the part of the osrd there's quite a bit on there in regards to how the open space can be divied up it so you got to look into that because you say giving aoip to uh fish and wildlife I don't think the osrd allows I think it has to have a conservation restriction which the owner of the the owner of the land cannot hold the CR corre so it becomes very tricky on that so you're just got to make sure we review all that before we're talking the the open space is a very detailed part because if you're talking about automatically giving the Conservation Commission we may not want it depending on what you're giving us and how it's going to be up and what infrastructure is going to be on that it shouldn't just be a thought that the town automatically takes it we need to be asked and verify that we actually want it and then who's going to hold the CR at that point yes and as well as the updated conservation analysis which I know we had talked about you guys getting it it's done it's pages I mean that's we'll need to have that information as well um you know so I think a whole open space I really I I again I'm not trying to tell you you work but somebody's trying to give the town and the Commonwealth 140 acres of land I don't understand why it because we need to understand who we're not saying no no no no it's just part of the process we need to understand who's it going to give into because uh you know part of our open space uh development there are requirements as to who's the owner who's uh who's going to maintain there's there's uh conservation restrictions uh like like stated well that's true if it were going to a private did we get this clarified by gag already we don't need a conservation what the osrd states the osrd states that it has to be in an conservation restriction I there's no out you can't get out of it I'm going to look at the bylaw I do believe your bylaw does not allow you for that I'm sorry I'd like to chair let Miss G make a comment please you guys are concentrating on this I was just in Gag uh Mass Department of fishing game I was just wondering if there's um a waiver mechanism or something like that because um I I have worked with many other towns that have allowed osrs um open space land to be held in fee by the Mass Department of fishing game because it is consider article 97 protected open space and you know we have the um ability to maintain Etc um I just need to talk to Town Council then and get so yeah so what I was going to say is I think I mean this has been going on for so many years now I think Maran started and I have been at almost every meeting um and she uh wanted me to tell you that she would have been here if she could but she had a a prior commitment she had to speak at the pace annual meeting um so uh she wanted to invite you uh the members and the audience to you know SLP over to that meeting if this meeting ended early enough obviously does not appear to be the case um and she also wanted to uh make sure that I tell you that she appreci all the work that the planning board members um and town staff uh have put into improving this project as well as the developer and his uh group um this is a much better proposal than what was originally proposed I think everyone will agree um so I think at at one point um early in the process the very beginning of the process we had um discussed this issue of um yeah the M of the state agency owning the open space and I had explained um that uh various Town councils had had agreed and the state actually holds uh open space um set asides for other SRD so I will try to dig out that information you could I'll Happ in your files quite but I so I'm not going to I'm not going to are my files I don't know yeah well I have to say in everyone's defense this has been going on for so long that it will probably take me a while to find my files there's so much material to sift through no and I told understand it's just I'm coming into this from the start of the definitive subdivision I'm sure this has gone on for quite a bit of long time a lot bit a lot longer time but based on what I'm looking at based on what I have in front of me based on this the bylaw and our regulations I I don't feel comfortable you know telling the board that they can do that we can get to exactly yes exactly so I just want to make sure we're covering our grounds on everything but and ands quite correct we we did discuss and check into that and Ken's right it's got to be four years ago if it's a day um but we'll certainly resurrect all that stuff um but I don't think you need the CI you need the CI when it's a private either a a homeowners association or a private conservation entity you actually don't need a a c when the commission holds land while when the Commonwealth home is land as long as it meets out as long as the deed recites it that it meets article 97 re so that's something we're going to look I have to I'm going to look into that okay great it's easily ascertained yeah not at the table so we agree that uh we'll meet again on December 10th all right so uh just perfect I'd like good you have to request a continuation yes we we want a continuation please letter yes yeah I two quick comments before you close um one is um and you probably already have this on your checklist but um it's always a good idea if there's open space set aside that that gets done at the beginning of the construction process rather than at the end and that would be our intent so just wanted to put that remind everyone about that issue and then and uh the second one is um uh whether you are proposing K Cod burms or Granite because turtles do much better with PE Cod burms Main Street I had like six pages of comments back in October and I don't think any of those were discussed we haven't gotten that far in the comments we're still kind of at 6 but surprisingly enough excuse me Mr chair but we still hadn't gotten down in those details yet but it had been discussed before to put as few barriers as possible all right and and I'm not going to talk about our our turning our driveway radiuses and stuff like that we have to figure that out mhm cuz uh yeah I believe the project is All Cape Cod BM aside from just a few select spots I think the entrance limited Granite curb and primarily keep so I I believe we need a a motion to continue to move to continue um I'm sorry let me get it move to continue the public hearing for the off right Road Stratton Hill map 6 Parcels 12378 11- 55 to the December 10th 2024 planning board meeting and then if you can accept the request that the time frame that you must hold the hearings and decide be extended to uh January 30th of 2025 please sir and you'll just provide that in well I'm doing it right now okay great so and you got a second any further discussion hearing none Ken how do you vote yes Julie yes Nathan hi Jeff hi chair votes I Mr chair may I indulge you for a few minutes can we take a break for a few minutes I'd like to wrap up this meeting real soon I mean we we're almost there let's do it let's it's late it's 8:30 is there an okay yeah we just have minutes we just have minutes we're going to Pro skip project status nothing's on fire at the moment you a better version you can tell me it is a better version fine uh Jim uh thank you for attending and um I'll be in touch with you thank you Jim appreciate it thank you man thank you thanks thank you Matt thank you Dan thank you an that to Danny if you could V move that we accept and approv the September 24th 2024 minutes yeah so these were the ones that uh Nathan and yourself Nathan and myself and Jeff I think contributed adds to a stupid com but yes you got a second from Nathan yep any further discussion yes what is it I didn't attend the meeting but I think I noted on the minute I said I was in attendance in one place and said I wasn't an attendance in another place unless it's been corrected I think it's been corrected hasn't it the 24 said listed all of us then it said not in attendance later on it may have been a carryover um probably so we so so um with those comment I mean with that adjustment with that adjustment we'll make that adjustment Canen how do you vote can't vote he was absent he was absent was an ABS oh okay Julie Nath there I Jeff I chair votes I thank you and then we have the meeting minutes October 8th I submitted a few just a handful of revisions this afternoon uh I move that we approve the October 8th 2024 minutes and and I I don't think think Jeff or Ken can vote on that it's just oh excuse me I goofed it up yeah second that's the meeting you weren't at was the last one second and Julie how do you vote Yes Nathan I chair votes I motion to do you need to talk before the adjournment or can we adjourn and then we can chat I'm fine okay uh mov to motion to adjourn so mov all right seconded good night everyone it was a long meeting but a good one