##VIDEO ID:9n3ywU4JXI0## welcome everyone uh it is Wednesday October 2nd 2024 and this is a meeting of the senior center site selection and building committee this meeting will be held in person at the location provided on this notice members of the public are welcome to attend this in-person meeting please note that while an option for remote attendance and or participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting or hearing will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with a particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for in-person versus virtual attendance accordingly this meeting will be live on Zoom the public May access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting 37541 46055 or by calling 92925 6099 for additional information about remote participation please contact hary anel assistant Town manager at ATM a.a. us or 978 77282 extension 100 prior to the meeting so with that I call us to order at 606 PM um any amendments to the agenda about the minutes so the um yeah so I'm going to take August 28th and September 11th off of um so I think Carolyn had offered to do the 28th and I could not and um she had other commitments did not get it done yet uh and I just don't remember if we volunteered to do September 11th so Dennis Dennis was it Dennis denn okay Dennis it was Dennis he's not here so we can okay um and then the only other thing I was going to say is at the time I made the agenda the select board hadn't met yet so I'm just going to suggest that we welcome our new Committee Member first and then go on with the rest of the agenda so any other amendments all right can I get a motion to approve the agenda as amended all in favor CH says hi I'm G to turn off the AC just real yeah I think all was going to be looking at it all night it goes towards the sound we used to have cars go by one of our services and whenever the car went by she would look out the window all right so right so first before we do anything else I'd like to um give an update on the um or on our new newest Committee Member Bonnie tilletson welcome uh so at the select board meeting last night there were two candidates that were interested and the select board you know heard each of them talk about what they um wanted to see or wanted to add to the committee and there were two very qualified candidates um the select word ultimately decided to um appoint Bonnie as our newest member and to appoint uh Linda Collins as an alternate member and so um she was gonna try and attend tonight it's possible she's lost and doesn't know where she's going um so uh the idea with an alternate was that they would be at the table they would be talking they would be sharing input but they would not be voting unless there was another member of the board missing so um with the idea that again this is a marathon of meetings and we're all going to have things from time to time that prevent us from being here but with an alternate um we can still get a really um varied and representative view of the town but still always keep the business of the committee moving for so welcome bu thank you all right um did everyone have a chance to look over the minutes from the August 14th meeting yes I did um can I get a motion to approve the minut minutes from all in favor I Chair say bye wonderful all right and as mentioned before we're going to table um August 29th and September 11th um and hopefully get that caught up at the next next meeting okay um so item number three is an update on the select board and finance committee presentations so two weeks ago um as several of you were there at the meeting um uh we presented welcome Dan we presented to the select board um to give them an update section of Bishop Road uh they were uh very supportive each one of them um was excited to hear the update and uh aside from words of encouragement I guess of support the only other uh question the only question that was asked was um whether or not we would definitely be seeking a special whether uh whether we would be um going for the Springtown meeting verified at that point that that was part of the next phase was to determine um when it would be but the town manager did remind the select board that they had um given their support for a special Town town meeting for the project can am I summarizing that while you were there yes good enough I mean you put out a nice report couple pages and the the report had you know concept plan had the floor plan and had the Bishop Road look like five different photographs and attachments that was good we can provid it to the new members if they but it's on our website now right yes and I was thinking maybe we could get together and meet and I could catch up and okay share all the documents but yeah everything is on the on the website like I said this is hot off the press from last night I think they pretty much had looked at what we sent them and you know that was it we made a small presentation couple comments you made a couple comments alen right I think didn't you speak that yeah was good okay uh and then later on in that week um I I learned that the finance committee had put us on the agenda for their meeting um so uh I brushed up the community presentation that we given updated it and everything printed out 11 by 17s of all the photos and everything that we had had um as it turned out when we got to the meeting the agenda was quite full and so they weren't quite ready to hear a whole presentation at that point um they just wanted the you know i' call maybe the elevator speech and so uh we just updated them on the need for a senior center and what what we had done thus far and they had several questions uh I thought they were all exploratory they were all pretty supportive questions um yeah I mean nothing that was unexpected I guess the only thing is they basically said thank you for coming in and we'll look forward to seeing you with again right come back to you and you guys planning as well I think overall those two those two steps those two meetings were went quite well no no no major hurdles there um so all right yeah's um all right so I think that brings us down to item number five which are the Bishop Road Site updates um the first item is the Bishop Road gate relocation process Dan did you want to speak to that I know you had a meeting recently uh yeah sure um yeah so I'm sorry I'm a little late Charter in from baseball for my son but um there was a meeting between mass development uh us fish and wildlife and um I was also there for the town of air and they were speaking about a few other topics besides just the gate movement um but for the gate movement topic um there was two yeah two members from us fish and wildlife and um and basically Mass development explain the project explain the reasons for wanting to move the gate you know on their end was there's the pollinator Garden down there in the trail and opening up the area for more access um and also you know I spoke too to the senior center and then also the town of air wanting to have more access for you know for the senior center and in general as well for recreation um so there wasn't um it seemed to be accepted pretty well and um the two members who were there indicated that um you know the gates on their end what they have is they have a um a rare species that has a migration in April and I think it's salamanders but don't quote me um and so the gate gets closed for that and but but they indicated that um The Crossing is more toward the NASA River so not between where the existing gate is in the Triangle that we we call the triangle that kind of turnaround area um so it was presented that we'd move the gate just past that turnaround the triangle so that Vehicles would be able to go all the way down turn around at that Tri triangle or even park there to use Recreation um so they said um it's um they had a positive reception what they wanted to do was have their staff biologist go to the site and look at things and visit it with mass development and uh in the town of air so that's getting scheduled that'll be the next step and then after the staff biologist looks at the site um they'll um report back and we'll have another discussion um about moving the gate but regardless the gate is going to move it's just a matter of where and it's going to happen in the first thing in the spring is the current schedule so we'll kind of hash out what fish and wildlife has for requirements and uh and go from there so probably later this month is what I was told the staff biologist would be around to um to do a S and there was I should mention too there was talk of you know you could potentially even have two gates one for just the salamanders and then you know another one um that would be like past the triangle if that was if if you know based on the staff biologist's report if that was needed um so good news but I'm still in progress that is good news wonderful um Ken did you want to give an update on the anrn survey progress today did you bring that copy of that oh I I thought you were going to print it up for every I didn't well I I yeah I sent it to everyone the email I started to print it out and then once I got into the other two that had come in some of them were really really long so I just didn't I do that do you want me to print them you guys got it in read yeah everybody read it yes long and short of it uh Katie has signed it we found out that she had authorization to sign up to $10,000 we didn't have to take it to Robert okay so we have issued a job to David Ross Associates to do the and if you looked at the detail you could see the it was a little more through there than you know what we talked about in in the meetings they're going to do topography they're going to look closely at the site I have talked to them separately about the fact that it could be four aces it could be three Aces and doubtedly we will all have a site visit with them while they're out there there'll probably be a time we set up a meeting and we all walk with them while they're doing their um initial lookie at the project so that'll give us a chance to double check what we all see in the field and then 're they're aware of the fact although it wasn't in their proposal but was they're aware of the fact that it's going to be septic system and of course we'll have to have a provision for a future septic this needs to do it be enough land for both the original and the future it's the way you do it when you have a sepic um so there'll be Provisions for that and I told him it's pretty much open-ended except for the fact I didn't want to take too much land from DPW so that was the only thing I kind of left but you'll obviously be looking at that yeah I heard that clear yeah so in essence it could be a little deeper than we showed him but the data is sufficient for them to get started with and it'll be about three weeks probably the end of October before they start the field and then maybe what was it deser a cost was 10,000 that's what it's going to be it's not to exceed 10,000 and not to exceed 10,000 not to exceed 10,000 [Music] $9,999 no could be less because yeah probably yeah I'm just this should go pretty quickly in the field do we have to give them a retainer orain just sign the thing and they'll STI go yeah pretty small amount um yeah so that is on on the way as far as that goes can't think of anything else that was in particular about it other than you know we could change the size I mean I took another look at that John and it it seemed to me like what was on your drawing like to layout yeah may only be like two acres yeah we didn't know at the time we carried we suggested up to 25,000 depending upon how many how much land you got how much theography and I think they we don't have a we don't have it f in but this is the where we're gonna go and then there will be a septic and um right but if I took a look this today this is 10 and this is five or six this is about an acre the whole thing right here is probably two yeah and you probably need three and a half yeah so we're be in that ball game basically they'll take a closer that and we'll get a chance to go up and look at it with them they're going to be locating trees I think they're at this particular Point these they're going to create the perimeter the lot they'll give us points in the FI they'll put in the rebound at the end of the job and we decide what it is oh yeah and then get the drawing ready yeah got they're often want to check about the other two anybody have any questions I should say that on the everybody saw except you guys I don't know if you saw anyway everyone's S I guess this point in time is that Dan and you're Dan would you expect the Salk to happen you know they're gonna they can't stop for like four weeks sometime in November while they work um hen I don't know if we've looked into it do you know what the process will be when we you know when we approve that anr it has to go through the planning board but is there a you know is there select board involvement to sign off on it's just a planning board well show to the S board as a courtesy and what not I'm sure and show it around but the planning board signs it's approval not required basically because it's an existing piece of land on on by the town given Street I just didn't I was making sure there's no like town meeting or anything because we're we're messing with Town land even though it's I know it's just still going to be Town land but I didn't know if does the select board have to sign any legal document that gets recorded or or who does I mean the planning board will the an anr plan but I was just curious I don't know if we need to look closer at that at all or or I hope you don't doesn't appear that you have to maintains with the town There's no that stays with the town right yeah there's no acquisition or any stuff like that but I just didn't know I guess the process would be that we as a board would look at it then we would make the recommendation to the planning to the board and then ended off the planning board assign it as a courtesy for the select board and who would report to just to show them what what result so they're gonna pretty much Ross is gonna locate the lot lay the lot out well we've already Lo we Lo L those they're gonna pin it though they're going to pin it they're going to give us a drawing that shows it we sent them all the documents I don't have them with me because everything's in the email but basically highlighted the spot sent them a plan sent them electrometry view images from the sky a bunch of different stuff so that it was enough for them to start and they're well aware of it because they did the base Waring in 1978 of the land they they have a benchmark yeah they have the whole yeah okay that's do you want I've got it here online do you want me to pull it up on the screen yeah because well catch video the other I was thinking about pulling up the stuff that we sent them you know for bidding isn't that in the no it's not there okay that is just the highlighter drawing that's in those are the last pages of oh of your report to the select board yeah I send him [Music] more you know I don't think that's in his list of documents let me he's got he's done okay let me make a note to um s stuff like this put those up there this is showing the flood flame where it comes out we particular stay away from that this is off Mass GIS so that's the corner of that boock that we're looking at that the highlighted piece for those joining online what we're looking at is the that were in the select board packet that accompanied my report to them and I apologize those didn't get loaded up separately to our site that's the gate that's the opening of the gate they actually did the base that way that people can drive around I so that was [Music] that that should work out F so this won't have any like grading plans or anything like that yet oh it will I asked him to include topography oh really yes I did good deal so paying for the topography paying for um you know site visit can they come do my property have fun that's a good price theography joh mention that earlier be nice to have that as a base yeah so we're doing theography it's right in the proposal if we want to read it to oh yeah I just P that just the guts of it yep yep yep um um our field crew will locate existing property Corners consistent with this plan office C calculations and plotting will be performed and a property line determination will be made comparing the field locations to the positions as described a full topographic survey will be performed on the Massachusetts state plane coordinates and elevations locating the visible improvements to the property are they one foot intervals it does not say that um says you indicated the adjacent property does not contain any Wetland boundaries that will impact any or the proposed development so any delineation or location of any Wetlands is not included in the services to be provided with your input a final approval not required plan will be prepared suitable for presentation to the town of air planning board and Reporting with the registry of deeds after endorsement our field kuu will return to the site and will install an iron pin at the existing and new property corners for the subject property so yeah and what we talked what I talked to him about was the rest you know the septic allocate for that would have a field visit and the size could vary no issue with any of that doesn't have to be exactly 3 Aces it can be whatever we all work up that was it okay great uh and then did I see Dan do you want to speak to um the it was two quotes for phase one environmental that came in is is that right just recently yeah um so yeah both Ken and I tag tackled this together and so I did receive a quote from Cooper's Town environmental I've worked with them in the past and Ken received one from Omni environmental and I haven't had a chance to look at them closely um but I did look at the price I think Omni was a little lower right Ken did you look close it's basic it's so close it's pretty much the same yeah I think it was only like three grand for Cooper's town and Omni was a little lower but I haven't looked at them in detail other than just receiving them recently um so I think we Ken and I we probably got to reconvene review those and then um and then we'll be good to go D could I help out with that as well yeah sure yeah one of the advantages we have you have a quarum what now five people at least three of us can meet now have a quorum and have a working group discussion yeah legally um they were both comprehensive I was really pretty surprised at the length of the what's included maybe they have a template that they just you know run out but oh they eight or 10 pages at least those one of them was like 25 pages so yeah and they again we and I shared the documents that we sent to each of them so we sent each firm the same documents so they all had the same information but most of that work is going to be done by them online by researching you know what's available on state federal records and whatnot for the first phase which is pretty easy so that's good price great great good to see all of those things so do we need to pick one of those out of those two we need to pick one or we're gonna have to pick one but what Dan is suggested because of the number of detail in their proposals that we he and I look at it together with warning then we'll figure out com back can say you're it you're out which one but I think you're all on board that 3,000 is a pretty good deal right yeah go with that then we just pick one of the two okay I think when I was on the Conservation Commission it was on something like that sometimes the sites are more complicated to lot of w that was a trick to break that thing down so um one of them did indicate om indicated Dan did you see at the beginning that he already had gone online took a quick look at something oh yeah I didn't see that okay yeah he had a quick note that you know he just clicked the state thing or something and it appeared like it was a pretty straightforward deal they probably both did the same thing so yeah come up with it good so then we will um you guys can coordinate a time to meet yeah and then bring your findings and recommendation back to the rest of us after we sign it no [Laughter] just um any other updates on um the Bishop Road Site work itself yes okay much got so the next one is the so we talked about the phase one environmental but the second one is the habitat assessment okay so Dan any luck on that I I finally got through today to U Oxo so they pring B took me three tries to get through okay yeah go Gard is providing when he's working on it now I spoke to him briefly and the habitat assessment they technically can't do it until the summer because that's when the New England blazing star that rare species plant that's when you're able to do that assessment but he said what they can do now is like an initial survey and it'll give us a really good idea of of what to expect and what's out there there um and even he might even be able to find some of those New England blazing stars that are dead um but he said those aren't really the big deal it's the blandings turtles more to deal with the New England blazing stars you can usually relocate them or work around them um but that was just my initial conversation with him but he's putting something together with me with kind of um a phase one of all right we'll go out there do an initial survey present some preliminary findings and then habitat assessment when we're ready to do when it's when we're able to do that okay well that's going to be interesting to see what what oxwell comes back with too so yeah we'll have a way to compare you know and see what oxville says about that situation but anyway we have again two professional firms working on yeah they're both good no both and then am I correct in understanding based on how we've discussed this before that this is not a red light green light for this site it's a matter of what kind of accommodations would need to be done or that's a good explanation because of this location within an area of critical environmental concern and Mass wildlife DED species and U you know natural heritage in the danger species okay jurisdiction we have to go through these steps go ahead sorry my my initial conversations too with um Steve from Godard where that you know based on our footprint if we're like an acre and half two acres of development you might be okay and not trigger what's called a take um for the blandings turtle and if you trigger a take then you need um some kind of conservation permit for the blings turtle and usually you have to deed additional property um twice the size of what your property is into like a conservation restriction to protect the turtle so this is all way down the road but there you know in short there is no red light but there could be some requirements that we have to deal with depending on how the permitting goes but um you know they'll be like during construction requirements to you know do turtle sweeps and and have certain barriers to prevent Turtles from coming on site and then they'll be um something long-term you know most likely a fencing around the site and things like that so anyway that's you know initial conversations I've had with um between um natural heritage and Steve from Godard good is there is there any concern about archaeological issues in s we we'll find out down Bing Zone yeah will that come out in environmental one or it come out of this one yeah okay you know I hope we don't find any unexploded ordinance now you may know it earlier than [Laughter] [Music] later all right uh any updates Dan uh on National Grid yeah so um I'm so basically it's a little harder for me to get to a designer without providing significant information um they want you know loading um a line diagram and several things that are beyond my capability so I just I've reached out to one of my electrical engineers I've used in the past and and I'm just asking them hey you know what do you think I should do here do I need like you know to to do any um further work you know design-wise to find out that to provide this information but they tell me they won't set me up with a designer unless I provide more information about what the building will have and I'm like well it's not designed yet we don't totally no we have but I'm kind of in a little in a pickle right now I'm trying to figure out how best to push forward and get a design started okay could tell wilham and the other ones we we can get information yeah I can I can yeah I mean that was one of my thoughts do we want to just snag wil bram's information and use that toward what we're doing here it'll be pretty similar in the end and just that 10% 20% to it case something else comes up it's getting pretty crazy out there but let me let me it's just more for you d v if we can give you what we think we'll need for power I think we have all those Cals for Wam is a very similar sized building um and then you can give that to the National Grid they that you know we we know ex it's all built now so we know what we're working with so you'll look into that this maybe I'll just I'll connect with Dan Dan Arts maybe um I connect with you after outside of this and maybe you can help me I know you've given me some information already but they want more so um but maybe weam to get there yeah I'll try to get you the uh Power stuff that we had for Wilbraham and work something together yeah all right I'll connect with you I'll show you exactly what you're asking okay all right cool any questions comments follows additional things for the site water water i j is working on water too oh I'm sorry Dan you still had one more thing um yeah um um can we get a stip in that's how I'm starting this no I'm just kidding um so I I started putting together an RFP and then I talked to Matt the town engineer and he's like I can do this and I'm like you know I just don't want our workload to be too big and and he does you know based on schedule and everything we can do it in house um so DPW will design it in house the uh the Water to get to the site so um so Matt deserves a stiping no I'm just kidding um so anyway um yeah we'll take that on and I did reach out to David Ross because they're already doing the survey of the site potential survey for the uh that Corridor where the water main would come down and ultimately where the overhead electric would also go down too which we'll need so that's first step once we have that you know the biggest hurdle is going to be crossing the railroad tracks and um just dealing with PanAm to get the uh get the approval and work with them to to um get that cleared away but um yeah it's not an hard design at all they still control I know they so John would that um so that that that falls under utilities that would fall under the package then right that would wouldn't be a separate we have a line for it yeah you got to come into we we go from adjacent to the sight into the building if you got to go from wherever he's coming from I don't think I have that carried in any of our money right now no we put it separate line we're still thinking of we get electricity to the site get water to the site we're still talking about doing a septic SE was talking about doing a propane propane yes yes absolutely that's what we're figuring other but that in regards back to the gate I talked to uh joh can't I can't prounce his last name from the mass development he said once you're all everything's worked out that thing can happen tomorrow he said there don't move that no problem he told us that two months ago I but I know you can take care of it no I thought Dan V was gonna do it that's the we're well we would help them but they seem gung-ho to do it themselves so that's the better I mean they they do um and it makes sense we're going to put a a sign at Park Street to indicate when the gate is closed um but anyway yeah we're just at the speed of fishing Wildlife right now I chance to talking Mass development of the deons Enterprise commission about them sharing in the cost of the water going down the road to create some kind of a loop with a pair of gates you know so we could back them up they could back us up something like that I I reached out to um um Jim Moore and I'm gonna have a conversation with him about that and about electricity um but I don't I don't know if that will go real far but I I'll reach out and and um and see Dan who's that Jim MO is he up in Mass development yeah he's Devon's utilities manager no well good guy yeah I have a quick question for John Catlin but it's it related to this if we do I guess this the question probably is not perent but if we do site utilities with the contractor before we do the building all of that still has to be done prevailing wage right no matter what we do we can't have a we can't have a open shop CLI cont bit a water line because it's the town water anyway I'm talking to Dan about this oh that yeah oh I don't know about that if you if we bid the water line Dan does that when you bid out a job like the water line look that he he's looking at you oh okay it's always prevailing wage no matter what yep bonded so forth okay yeah all right that's any on a road and over a certain am needs to be bid but under a certain amount you don't need to bid right yeah pretty much any construction job is enough to be bid it's 50 Grand is when you get into bidding yeah okay thank you all right um so the next item is a facilities and it update that's just a very short update um we are still trying to schedule that meeting I think think it's going to be on Monday next week um between um Cindy Knox the IT director and uh Chuck Schultz the facilities director um and happy to have other members join as well um just to get a handle on uh if there are existing fa facility systems that they're trying to keep cohesive if they're you know um if there are any particular designations that you know we're a green Community we're a this community that Community just to make sure that everyone's aware of what um what designations all of that needs to have um and then um also to start working on what the operational budget um would be from the facility side now that we have kind of a rough idea of what the building would look like um because obviously I know what operationally I can scale I can anticipate and scale what I would need um but I because we don't pay utilities here that's something I said I need Chuck and John's help with to kind of piece that together because I know that will be a question um when it comes to town meeting is how much it will cost to run that building that's where you come in where your omnus articles under your C agent or whatever is going to change dramatically because you're going to have significant things added that you don't have now so well and and that's part of the discussion because right now I don't pay utilities I pay rent but I don't pay utilities here um and I'm not part ofc there's nothing of about this location that's part of the facilities budget um yet some other Town buildings some of their costs are rolled into the facilities budget so um that's just we need to meet about that in figure out you know what roughly the utilities costs what what amount of Maintenance we might need to allocate each year and then whose budget that would sit in so Katie through John is there a way you can do that I'm gonna actually follow off with wilam see what they're what they've been doing to date they're in a similar Zone as we are with the same providers although they do have we do have gas pipe in there but propane was a little bit higher we have done a propane one for a while most of L first time for everything go I've done lots of propane they're awesome yeah but mostly for small schools I built a house up country I it was awesome yeah unbelievable my house went in yeah um so I I I will follow up with with Paula and and the town of wilam also I I might also do the same thing with North Handover because they're also a very similar size and they're just been completely they've been running for a year now so we have we have more time experiened with North an when we do with wam so I know Dennis was interested in um that sub um subcommittee Exploration with the it part does anybody else you guys s a meeting for that yet have you said um so one of the options was Monday afternoon somewhere around 2:30 or next Thursday but I hadn't heard back from Chuck yet so those are the two times that c is available I'm happy to Loop anyone in on it do you want me to add you to that yeah sure okay right um and then any other questions about facilities um one question any is there any uh thought or discussion about solar on the roof absolutely I mean it looks like there's flat rink I don't know yes we do there's a flat it may work better on the site or it could also be on the roof the roof will be strong enough to take it i' prefer it on site roofs can get really funky plus the problem is your solar will need work probably before the roof but if the roof needs work solar's in the way so it's nice to set it up we have to look at we have some high land behind us um we look at the solar aspects of the site and if we do do on site that would be part of that you know we're looking you know it can be on top of the set you know sometimes you can generate more than you need and you can pass it back to the to my son does that right now lot of people do it cost him 25 Grand to put it in but he said you know he gets 400 bucks a month back so he and he runs this electric the same size 7.85 yeah there you go as we're looking at the solar one you know we we looked at putting solar on our Sledge landfill which is nearby and there were um issues with permitting and the footprint of that solar wouldn't have been big enough I mean this is just one building maybe it makes more sense but all the um natural heritage priority species will kind of come into play if we look to do take up additional area I I think it would fit within the side it could also hang over the top of the parking lot A lot of people do that the issue that we would not be able to do the whole building it would be supplemental to the building it it take a lot even though we're all LED and everything and also we're we're stretch energy code right stretch energy code in this town yeah it adds to the cost but it saves you money all right um John you are up next with the look at latest round of updates Dan you're up next with the latest round of updates all right go ahead Dan you can pre you can talk about where we are in the renderings and where the S has change go ahead all right um so I get uh John has with him uh the uh updated site plan and I just um spent a little bit more time uh developing it a little bit better um so right now currently we're coming up on Bishop Road we enter still on the right uh left side coming straight down it's about uh South uh we have our pickle ball courts uh two of them currently and there's still I would see there's room for expansion or possibly whatever else um maybe bot or whatever might come down the line um and then we have our drop off loading zone for uh kitchen equipment uh for kitchen for the medical staff and all that um and as we turn we come in we drop off right on our right hand side passenger side um dropping off covered walkway um I'm going to there's a little bit too many tables currently shown in that patio area but we have a little patio area with a Pera pergola up there that's all up the front and then then we still have our walking path coming around the building uh I added a little patio area down by the kitchen um on the south side and then we have the the larger one down at the end of the uh multi-purpose room um nothing else has changed uh in the in the parking lot area there are walkways um so we have safe walkways for people um that Park out yeah so between the walkway through the yeah it's that's gonna have to be Tred yeah it's gonna be landscap that that is the next step is I'll start Landscaping a little bit more I show a couple landsc a little bit of landscaping around the building that comes yeah Dan right yeah Dan so we have two other items that we have to locate one at Pro we do the propane and we do the septic where they located on here well they're not on here they're slots way bigger than this yeah back yeah we go wider this is only about what an A and A Half be once there's definitely room worked out then we will then we're gonna have storm water too storm motivations out here yeah we're going to put it under marking lot or we can do we could probably do a reten we have another do it here okay we'll you do one for the blending unless you want to donate it you can donate to half a million we do it both ways how's thatl of soil yeah retainers area in in wilam we have a very large retainers area right on the right adjacent to the white LS but when I when you're coming to uh Pro pain and septic there there's definitely room by the loading area where we can place any stuff down there so that way it's out of the way for maintenance and fill ups and such same with the generator we'll locate that yeah right at the end just not going how many spaces you still like 106 spaces Dan something like that I uh I have 92 uh normal uh regular spaces and 11 Ada so it's a total of 103 we were just at Dan and I were just at the North End over site and the previous site was behind Town Hall they probably parked they had 30 people there in any one time at the new site um we had to wander around for a parking space there was probably five available spaces out of them that it's really out of how many I think they're about 100 yeah it's a little I think it's slightly it's about the same size building should we comment on this now wait one of the thoughts I had which I think in the real world people go to the restaurant the truckers are not going to take a right they're going to come out here um I just don't see any H reason anyway they're going to do all their work pick up a dumpster or whatever that might be and they're going to come around like this and leave I think they're gonna go right straight out with that lock so I'm suggesting well they come at 7 in the morning don't they this just Ain gonna doesn't going to happen though I mean if you're going to stripe it and everything else it's impractical so I was thinking this should be a double wide you know like a two exit one entrance two exits type thing because in the real world people who service the building not going to come out and go around like this but can think about that later yeah we'll we'll discuss that it's just yeah so concerned and we'll have a dump enclosure TR figure all that out yeah we try not to do dumpsters but we'll see that's right you like to picked up which is a preferable method if do it yeah most of our very large Centers do that long metal which is 30,000 square ft us that's good you know and they're covered and what's nice about them they're very controlled so you don't have the problem with the you the problem with the dumpster they often want closures around them and they beat the they get beat up so we we got a ways ago don't want those Bears get that dumpster but there's another dumpster I mean I know it's my but there's another feed it's if you have a dumpster it's going to run you 400 bucks a month yeah so looking at 12 months a year I'm just I'm just I'm not down I'm just telling I think that's I mean that's part of the we need to do is make sure because right now we don't have trash service here um we use the housing authorities two dumpsters we don't generate a ton of trash here but um you know we usually have a bag or two a day in food waste so you'll get more there no no I know what I'm saying but we're not paying for it right now is what I mean we're using Housing Authority so that will be a new bill as well for sure so Dan just to let you know this I've got the site plan from before when when this was shown on a bigger on you know right to the lot line and I did tell Ross Associates that my preference although there's a drop off here would be the the whole operation closer to this lot line over here yeah where it ends up we'll figure that out just because I didn't want once that uh once we get that to Topo it's going to really help we'll be able to really place it good okay well might want to with them make sure we can get one foot there's going to be quite a cut in the front you know it's high here Road may not know that we we will probably be moving a lot of yeah some sites you know the idea wilam we raised that site almost four feet the entire site is good for them well there plenty of material think it's GNA need to be raised no I think there's going to be cuts and fills it might balance hoping for a balance and that's thing materialist just can move it around the toppo will tell us a lot my S guys are really so um so yeah it's and then um Dan's going to be developing a few more images for you oh yeah I do have those renderings where do you I'm I'm sharing screen Dan do you want start with the exterior or the interior yeah we can start with the exterior okay and um right now the the the gist of the building is the U the attic space takes almost all of our mechanical equ so we don't need to be building on grade uh expanding either one of the floors we just use the space above the second floor for the Erv which is actually probably goes from this table to that wall that's part of the energy code Erv stands for energy recovery v um Erv what does v stand for ventilation I guess and then we have um a lot of the duck work feeding the second floor can run in that attic space um sprinkler and U electric room would be on the first floor and um yeah you would see that off to the uh the left of the so I was going to say this rendering here we're we're looking over on the um if we're in the parking lot we're off on the leftand side looking at the building um so you're you're going to be seeing over up front here is our Cafe area with the the seating and our trellis area exactly yep so we have our Cafe here our in that back back there you'll there's a you storage um it was a Storage St uh exterior storage for whatever um cleaning supplies winter supplies what have you um then I have our main entrance um with our currently I just have air Senior Center I don't know if we want to be think about names now but currently I have this called they are Senior Center um then you have the walkway yeah we have the walkway the covered walkway going around the building and the idea is to save money is not not supported by columns but rather to frame off the main building so we save a lot of excuse me is that a trellis yes yes is that yeah it comes out for seing otherwise you're only yeah it's so the the you have a break uh patio area in front of the cafe this is to provide some Shing that's that's this so how far out is that it comes out enough for some seaing and tables I think it's just it's over this evening maybe about eight n it's just an open TR like it's shading and um and it also defines the space that belong you know belongs to the cafe okay and then in the winter time do the chairs and tables and everything get put away inside unless you like sit on your snowsuit which is I do that I I eat breakfast on my b every all winter I shove the snow out the way and sit down drink my shake sometimes wine go ahead there um I I I do I didn't want to show them in here but yes there will be trees in the p uh the parking lot area I do show Islands these will have plantings and stuff but they kind of block The View so um I did not show those in these um the other rendering we have for the exterior is um as we're approaching the building um as we're coming in from the drive and you can see the util the utility kind of area yeah yeah Serv so that will have the the service you have far far in the back there is your um the medical uh storage Bay uh rollup door yeah right there and then the you have a erass door and I believe the other one is your sprinkler room um coming and then you got your wraparound stair U wraparound walkway coming around your drop off um there's enough room there to to allow for a couple cars to kind of like line up if there's whatever needed um and there's still like if you future have a bus uh stop here you can have enough to have a bus come by Straight by here and egress um sorry that's much that's about it I have for the uh renderings at least the exterior [Music] ones you have no any comments on that go over the interior go ahead I think it looks great on the outside I love seeing it develop and come along is ADD brick on the bottom on the first floor to the bottom of the um a stone our Stone base yeah we have a stone base there that's an add alternate too probably y save money masonry yeah but the the U the issue there too is that when when we try and save money we'll run the siding down there but it gets damaged easily so we usually go with a stone base that resists snowblowers shovels cars yeah things that it's a veneer it's a veneer makes that stuff it goes right up it's yeah it's it's it's actually literally blued on and it's a culture it's not real Stone it's we're we usually use a culture is it more expensive no than the oh than the S it's probably a file subd yeah it may not exceed that but we'd have to our cost estimators will tell us whether it's a file subit or not it has to exceed a certain amount of money on the file subject otherwise we throw it to the GC which is usually a lot less expensive it looks nice we did not do that in Wilber we did that in in North Andover and in Long R and then wall wall yeah um on the bottom on the second floor it looks like two different textures or is it not yep it's the same material one one is just looks like shingles and the other one looks like flapp and in some cases Gordon baton but it's all the same stuff and it's they're not little it's not a difference in cost no no looks nice and it's as a little background this is not meant to hopefully ever to be painted again it's it's it's um the trim is is a composite material poly as composite material that doesn't expand and contract so it doesn't peel once it gets the paint on it and the Smith board is is Factory finished in the colors that you select we we're not picking a color here we will down the road um but it is uh it is we always like to say very low maintenance we don't want to say maintenance food actually great grandchildren will be paying it but I won't be around to compl to you and and the sign you know as Dan said we have a sign over the entryway there and in this case you've probably seen it in some others where we suspended underneath we're hoping to put it on the fascia it's much more readable yeah um and U we are ENT into a problem in walpool because they wanted to call it the um they a bank a bank was the money behind at the wallp Savings Bank so they wrote The wallp Savings Bank you know Community Center and everybody thinks it's a bank and they come in saying where's the ATM we we we do a reverse one you want to leave the money you can but but yeah name naming is always tricky but they did give him a half million doll all right so uh interior shot here um we are in the cafe uh we're looking from the cafe um across um is our um activity room activity room one I just currently have it set up as a little uh group table session yeah um and then uh in here's our Cafe couple Chairs set up um over to the uh right is you know coffee uh couple cups or sink way out in the back there as you were SC going in that is the uh that is our fireplace and going into the library Lounge so you'll be kind of going around that that unit there and back there would be kind of the library lounge with kind of The Quiet space and the fireplace in this case is double-sided yep from both and you can what you do is you go from noisy to less noisy to a much quieter space for reading or Qui conversation um I was I've been working on just looking at comparables of other senior centers and in talking to the directors in terms of I I've asked them how are things going since you opened it it's like so many more people and all these things are wonderful and we love the lighting and the Acoustics and the Wayne scating you you know we don't like the glass too much glass people um uh it's not it doesn't lend itself to privacy I mean one of their issues is about taken care of by our health center which is private and is not all that stff but having people being able to look in all the time at everything some of people are finding that very distracting and um just not private enough so I don't know I mean I can see the pros and cons but the pro is that a lot of Elders as we get older get a little bit less comfortable about wanting to be part of something and part of the transparency is to encourage people to see activities that they want to join and one of the complaints that I think you're talking about is in North Andover and we redesigned it through the director's request and when she decided late to put the fitness facility behind a wall of glass she said oh this is terrible and I said well that's you asked us to put the glass there then you move the fitness I mean the workout area you can fix that if you want and what we did in Welsley because we're concerned about you just put you have a a sheer curtain that you pull across when you want to be closed off but transparency the real transparency is there's a problem within an area let's say somebody alone in a room falls down they're going to see it and also the other thing we found and I've done a lot of lectures and talked a lot of directors too and one of the things that we hear is that you know George walks by and sees a bunch of people playing bridge and gee I'd like join that group or I walk by and they're doing a demonstration of how to cook and you know so there's both sides and my solution for glass is you know like it give you an idea the the nursing area we have glass but we usually Frost it yeah or we have a curtain designed for it because often somebody really wants to be more open but like in Wellsley we have um a yoga class within the fitness area so we created a curtain that pulls across between Yoga and Fitness when I say Fitness I mean ples and and treadmills and things so when we get into the fine tuning of this we will certainly listen to where somebody is concerned about visual connection and where they're not we one thing we have learned is that when you do have it it creates a sense of synergy if you will or energy within the building and um we found it be very successful but I've been to lots of centers where they don't have glass at all you can go to um um Holio Holio no that's the one we did U one the town next door I can't remember right now they're all closed l no not lll well lll is a good example um those are all closed off rooms you don't know what's going on in there you know you don't know that there's a group you know playing bingo or something I don't whatever they're doing so transparency is really important but part of the final design we'll be working with you closely is how to address concerns like I mean some of them I saw I had a long line of the Frosted but I think it was Sudbury we went to they had put up eight and a half by 11 sheets of paper on all the you know why because people were walking people walking into it well that's Nei I think there's probably a compromise to be reached there can and give it not quite a fishbowl feeling for the people inside but create enough transparency that it is inviting and and welcoming one of the one of the ideas we looked at was doing bubbles you know little circle Frost circles that start dense low and get a little lighter up above um but yeah that's final design go ahead the fascinating part about it's only this one room it's a problem in the glass all the other rooms small sels even the biggest room the fitness room has got one small side well we reduce the glass here because you asked us to right but I'm sayt to this one it's very noticeable in this room when you're I know but if you're in here eating this is all going on if you're in there working all this is going on I was just looking at it thinking yeah see that could be a problem absolutely i' keep the glass in the door keep the two in the middle to get rid of the two on it's done we have a long ways to C okay I want I think that was Dan did you have any other um drawings I wanted to uh the only thing is I'm G I'm going to be working on uh doing a rendering of the rear of the building and possibly another one another few or so up inside M purpose maybe upstairs in a fitness are give you a sense of space thank you yeah like said each drawing that I see I get more and more excited about it because it becomes more and more real real this point be brought out further match that happen to fade away with your eyes the way got to you got a the point is parallel to the edge of the building that high spot on that side we asked about that why that is high on the right hand side like that see that that's me it's all mechanical up there I guess is that is that the staircase for the fire side that's the uh is that the staircase the stairwell that's ster okay yeah that's that's all about and it goes all the way to the third floor right so great um the only question I have this is this a cookie th when we went out to wilam we saw your desire and your love for those special papers whatever the you know those P yeah you can fall on those and not hurt yourself what about them have you ever anyone ever considered stamped concrete at all no because you fall it's wor it's as bad as ceramic no here here's here's one of the a really interesting stat it's hard to believe and um and I learned this a while back in some seminars falling on lolium is better than falling on VCT and push and vinyl espe tile but we call composition now we don't bat used to be um then uh fall on carpet is better all right then we use no Ceramics in our projects no the kitchen is all ultro it's a commercial grade uh seamless vinyl the bathrooms are all seamless vinyl outside the the bricks are actually a composite rubber brick right it's first it's it's um it's not only green but what's really interesting about it as an item it's more expensive than real brick that they can put down it's a more expensive item but it goes into a grid like a like a like Lego and it sits over compacted sand so it's stable when we do brick we have to either pour concrete or put asphalt down in order to keep this problem of frosting which causes gripping hazards and then the other thing is that you can fall on the on this composite rubber brick this same issue as the difference between vinyl or or or seamless vinyl and and a hard surface so it's all this is about safety and um and also we find that if you in wolverham that's a very large Zone Frost it's already gone through a winter frost heing is not a problem because we do a frost fre subbase that sits on this grid and then they interlock between the grids so that's the idea and you can engrave those too raise money yeah many of them are doing that making some money yeah I think wole they raised [Music] $40,000 all you know thank you for that yeah good question that strikes me in the heart because one of my wife's issues you know you her own downfall started falling on you know patio that is not not level not safe tripping is a huge problem for elders um you know I'm susceptible to that you know what I do now and we do this in our stairs and the senior cice we do that edge that you can see and we do a dark edge and a luminescent edge if you lose lighting or it's not well lit the luminescent edge shows where the edge of the stairs I have that I have a three Lev house I have it on every stair having walked down in night and missed the last step it taught me really quickly so I'm very you know those are all these are all points that once this goes into the next level if it gets that far a lot of we'll be discussing a lot of this with you especially the Acoustics um high frequency background noise is huge um even here we can hear the refrigerator you won't you won't get that in that's why you see those coner ceilings and we have that special .95 NRC ceiling systems in fact in the multi-purpose room we also put up acoustic panels on the high walls because it's you get a crowd comes an echo chamber still there's a lot of things that will get into any other questions comments thoughts on the are we just about done with the this piece of the work for you guys oril stud well we're still working on more some of the internal yeah we're doing more images for you and and and I'm trying I had a a discussion with my cost estimator about if it went to a Springtown meeting and what it meant to go out farther and I didn't agree with him he um he's talking about right now that a lot of these this type of public job is running at 900 bucks a foot we're carrying it at I I I don't necessarily agree with that number I'm less than that excuse me I'm lower than that number I I don't agree with his assessment right now I think that we can go into a more comfortable time and he was suggesting that if we're bidding out to December I was carrying 5% to U for a spring spring bid um obviously we're not going to be bidding the spring he was saying that should be at least 10% and out to early winter it would be a 15 a 20% I carried 15% so what I did is I justed assuming if we can get a special town meeting this is just just for discussion get a special town meeting where we can get the funding for the drawings approved we can we can save probably six to eight months but if we wait if we if we wait to um let's say a mid Spring Town meeting and I don't know what what you have in plan we would be then bidding probably into the November December which puts us in the winter conditions what I would love to do is get this thing bid in the spring this is somewhat self- serving because it worked for us but if we can bid it in the spring I get my foundations in my slabs in I get my steel up and I get the building en closed before November because then our winter conditions are very different than they would be if we're breaking ground and trying to pour concrete November December which we can do by the way I buil plenty of these in December but we pay a premium for winter conditions or concrete work so that's just something to think about as you work with the selectman and and talk about things so I think that that does bring us to item number eight which was a current cost and budget discussion I was going to suggest that we schedule our next meeting perhaps to be solely focused on on that the budget and the timeline um because I can send out stuff between now and them right to you to to digest and then respond to what we're thinking and how we can adjust it to your s I'm GNA summary what you've done before but I haven't sent it to you oh good Jo you happy to send to you yeah um see how it goes I base by the way the the list that I sent you I took the the allowances that were done for Wilbraham and translated into this project okay but that's not my process of numbers and I don't know where they this has been a crazy bid time I give you an idea that I I I just did a a summary for the North and the project and when we built when we built um Walpole in 2019 we are half the first qu foot cost we are today Co supply chains really and then you know here's what the problem is once the Pisces get up they say sticky you know I don't want to give up all that money I'm making um and it's embarrassing for us you know I doesn't have to be are you building um an addition in in your Handover or what no it was a brand that was a brand new building that was a building we did we were doing a a review of the numbers there n Tucket was one that we did and they Haven we Haven it hadn't rewok because they decided to they found a better site so when we did that four years ago we're a th bucks a foot and then and now we're $2,000 a sh that's frightly it's wildare for ARS our cost go up you know my my cost estimator has gone from $28,000 or $30,000 to 60,000 70,000 they're used to doing $150 million schools St everybody's building anyhow yeah how about if I send out my my new things and maybe you could send me some of your thoughts give this good great um all right um thanks Dan for you Dan Arts he's been working very hard on I was complaining I wanted three more and thank you Dan um Dan was uh we were working together earlier today to get the no yeah get the um highest resolution versions of those so that we can um have them for the our booth at the Newton Street Festival so can really start to um the broader public can stop by and see what we've been working on and you know ask questions so the high res you do right we do bigger ones yeah yeah so that should be exciting um all right so any additional updates that we haven't covered just far otherwise we can go to public input and scheduling the next meeting I mean I'd just like to say um you know about the Newton Street uh Festival so um we're going to be um at the booth um and we'll be there all day I will be there all day um do we have schedules for other people I plan to be there like 2 to 4: okay I thought I said I'd be happy the morning is what I said yes you said you were gonna um help that's set up and you help me set up right okay um he's going to be serving wine to all the people who are going to support s um so I think that's fine and then I think there are a couple of people from the friends who are going to drop by it's going to be a full Booth we'll have the senior center have some space the friends will have some space the building committee will have some space kind of all in there together I had said I would try to come at noon but I do have my my two and a half year old granddaughter understand we have something planned in the morning and I don't know if I'll be back um by 12 so I wouldn't count on me I'll I'll try to come once you goes down for a nap whenever that is for a little while I think I've got one in Council and agent board member who's coming to I have to that time yeah should be good so there is a Friends Meeting on the 8th right yes at 10:30 in the morning at 10:30 right I've received a lot of information when I was doing the comforable stuff um from other sites that were talking about how much money they got from town and then how much money they raised either from individuals or businesses or other things that they did and all through their friends so I'll bring that information to the Friends group and uh part of that was offering naming rights on their various rooms or the whole building or something and um I think it's wiam or long has a whole list of what they used and how much they were charging for room yeah which they said they would give us if we wanted and we you can get it from Long Meadow too I think they both they'll be happy yeah well The Long Meadow train the people and we yes they did so um I thought that would be very helpful and they're willing to work with us and tell joose about setting up a capital campaign and I that of course they have a lot more wealthy donors in those communi well I tell you it's really sleepers you know you know I can tell you we in in uh townzen it turns out that they had a small a company called Sterilite you know ster used to be Tupperware they were Partners they were Partners yeah but he's Sterilite he came up and said you know this is GNA cost you know why I just you guys have been really good to our business I'll just pay for the library and oh you need a senior center too just send me send me the bill all public bid now in in naq we had we did a little presentation for somebody like what you're going to be doing a little um I I brought my computer and we walked the guy through it and said you know he was just an interesting fellow and two weeks later he gave him a check for $750,000 they didn't know who he was wow it was just kind of off people come up but you got to you got to kind of figure out where they're hiding and and also you know when you never be shy about asking for money never you know and uh you can always ask the architect to late late in the game early in the game yeah but U but but seriously um and also it's really important and and Ellen will probably tell you about this what we have Grassroots fundraising we have big players and Walpole we had Walpole Savings Bank which was chartered by Thomas Jefferson that's how old they are never knew that but we also sold bricks for $200 a piece you know in honor of my mother you know my great grandmother you know whatever and I the last time I heard there were between 35 and $40,000 just from because it made people I can't afford to give you ,000 but I'd love to buy brick for somebody and and that is and know and then by the way in in wam they didn't bother to do that they raised it separately for you I don't think they did bricks nobody asked me to buy a brick that's all I can afford I think they may have yeah did DS I don't think they did them until after maybe it was long long they were placing them and trying to Long Middle didn't do bricks but um but it's amazing where the money comes from but you have to allow people who I in in um in Holio I was walking through the center after it was well maybe a year and a half after it was done and a gentleman was sitting upstairs in a card room he oh Mr Ka come over here I want to show you I have a plaque on the window that I did in honor of my late mother I mean that's that's how important that is and that window what was $500 for the bronze you know the brast so there's there's all that stuff yeah they said every window they have is it's dedicated to some it's like a church you know you look and they there you go well we are like a church anyways you know so anyhow yes to get organized and I think Matt Matt is the guy over yeah I can't pronounce his last name yeah I keep looking I know that is all right I think that any other updates thank you Ellen for looking into all of that because I know it's a big topic both the comparables and you know the The Unofficial sheering of the friends group both you and Carolyn helping to get that on um if there's not any other updates I me that brings us to public input is there anyone here in the building or online public inut um just one question yeah um the gentleman that sit next to you said he had a walk-in PA how long does the walk-in PA well it goes all the way around the whole building oh around the whole yeah it's covered it's it's covered over the top but not on the sides on the side of the building part of the roof covers there's a roof so it's raining or you can walk that whole circle of the building oh okay so I'd have to do some math that I can't do in my head at the moment Dan will do it for let's say it's maybe like 10 times for a mile maybe is something like that he'll do it okay yeah and another question will you have music a place for us to to go in I know certain people don't like a lot of music but I'm a music level will you have a place where I can go and just listen to music uh as long as I can come to right we'll get Aros Smith well and you know Kim Karen that's a great point because in this existing facility here you really cannot enjoy music without disturbing someone else and with the ceiling height and all of that they're just we and we've tried it it's hard uh it's really to enjoy music and I'm right there with you I love music um so yes okay yes right there room maybe in the fitness room yeah you know play some music while you're Zoomba yeah but you need ear plugs for that any other public input those are good questions by the way right well then I think that brings us to um that brings us to scheduling our next meeting so Ellen's taking um minutes for this meeting yeah I've been running in all wonderful and I can also send you the link to the wres as small as she does I'm a teeny tiny small writer y thank you um iig i' have to do it at some point well that's a good way to do it because I've been listening to the the tapes and this you know the the meeting that I'm doing is two and a half hours you know it's just like I figured I take all the not there was something I missed I'll go back but I'm not gonna get it all over there well we could short your meetings really that' be helpful yes you're doing pretty well we're half an hour ahead I know we're half an hour ahead we're almost done so all right so based on next steps that I um have written down which is eventually getting to a walkr with Ross and Associates um hearing a report back from the biologist about the salamanders pathway um let's see oh that was to me to update the document section because there's two things that are missing off our document section um you're going to provide um wil braham's electrical specs y got and you're also going to follow up on utilities costs for wilham North Andover for us and then um my note for myself to remember the trash cost when I have when we have that utilities meeting so we need to um the facilities meeting so we'll be scheduling a facilities subcommittee meeting and a um what was the other yeah yeah facilities but the Bonnie the one you wanted to join um it was conservation we're just working onology oh okay yeah that that was so I don't see some of the other ones we're not in control of how long that will take for Rous Associates that will be once the leaves are down right when we do that walk in a couple of weeks no they can't start for full week so they'll start at the end of October we probably won't be walking until sometime in November great so I mean is we need to schedule our we don't we don't to consider that for our next meeting so at our next meeting um you know it would be an update on the facilities and it um and the budget the cost and budget discussion so when do we want to meet again and Carolyn you had mentioned you have to Chang to your schedule right um I I really can't be here on Wednesdays um you know and I so if there's another night that works for us oh I would that prefer that I mean we at least we don't have to compete with the town hall meeting space by meeting here so you know we have planning board meetings we meet Tuesday every other Tuesday Thursday works for us Thursday does that work for no that doesn't work for you okay we need him I don't know what about Mondays Mondays are tough for us oh okay it's the start of the week so but I I we can if Monday works we'll figure it we either Jo onine do okay can I guess yeah Tuesday's are good too Wednesday's awesome but Wednesday it's all it's all fun Tuesday works Tuesday's what's the DAT what are we thinking for meeting but they every other Tuesday we could work around the planning meeting on they're on the second and the fourth Tuesdays second and the four for the first and the third Tuesdays and we've been trying to schedule it as the next deliverable but it seems to be every two weeks or so one and three maybe on tues yeah we don't have but we don't have to worry about that we can meet at the same time SEL board this meeting or we okay so we're going to try Tuesday from Tuesday Tuesday when the planning board is not meeting right just look the second and the four Tuesdays at planning board anything so first or third who's so have the other guys to ask but oh Dan V you gzo yeah he had he had three committee meetings that he was bouncing through on because he goes to every select board meeting a report yes yeah so they met yes they met yesterday so do we want to meet on the 15th that would be right that would be the thir Tuesday that's works for you right plan board okay so October October 15 and I don't know that we have to I don't think we have to commit to the first and third Tuesday we're just trying to find the next meeting yeah that would be good because I'm Gone the 19th to the 20 I'm gone too yeah okay I mean the 16 I'm going the 16th okay to the 20 so um you know I'd also like to know exactly what needs to be done before we can go to town meeting because you know the sooner we do town meeting the better off we are and what exactly has to be done for that we need some numbers i' got you're gonna give me some stuff I'm going to U get you an update for spring versus November and um and my arguments is with my clost estimator and we still need to figure out what's going to cost to get power to the site what going to cost to get water to the site septic and propane are pretty easy right we have those we have SE we have septic Pro also want to build a building and have poles hanging up I see now they're doing job on 2A they're going into uh I can't in the name of the company herco and they've got polls up they've been up there for like two months they haven't done anything yet so they're they're oh that's that's that's a little oh eversource two months okay Sur two months seems like nothing when you're dealing ever I mean we have a job we had a job where we had the we had everything and we still didn't have power in and North Andover we had to bring in a generator to run the elevator to make sure it was done right you know for 240 277 whatever it was you know it's I thought they notorious interesting thing I heard tonight from Mr cat was the fact that we do have to consider how we would negotiate with Mr Catlin to the drawings early if we wanted to because that's a separate budget process I don't even know if we can do it you can't do it without town meeting I know that yeah but yeah would this how would we ever be strong enough to go to a town meeting and ask for X is fee for this to start you first of all my question I guess would be how would you put together a schedule of values for that fee in other words to focus so we would get to the the drawing stage and be ready to bid the drawings that's pretty much every single one of my projects of that l so that's what I'm getting that I thought it was important that you said it yeah every one of our projects are often done that way because you often here's one of the the real question I'm sure you're going to ask is until the drawings are at 90% it's a balancing act about where the budget is yeah we're aiming for a budget that we kind of agree to whatever that is whether it's 10 million or 25 million we work towards that budget but I can't predict what what the numbers will be in May or June when it's bid but we can but as this project goes we get a we get a a 30% budget a 50 or 60% one and a 90% one so we know where the pulse is in the marketplace from a cost estimator who's doing these things dozens of them all the time and as we work towards that we have to adjust the building to meet that budget and that's our job we have a budget we have to design to I I have an idea what this building cost and that's where we're basing it but we have to decide whether that's we're all in agreement on that number you were bringing up earlier your concerns about people's concerned about the overall cost of this project well have a concern about the cost yeah what I'm getting at is how how would this committee be able to vote to separate the cost so that the risk the town is taking is that we would design the building ready for and ready for bidding Y and we haven't got the approval to build the building yeah is that would the town have an appetite to spend substantial amount of money I remember that's my question that's my I remember having a conversation with the town manager and don't hold me to the very specifics of this because was over a year ago that some towns bid for the drawings yeah and then they go back to town meeting for the the borrow requests or the construction costs right other towns bid the whole process because why would you spend X thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars without the assurances that the town is on board to actually spend that money in the end so some legal problem for that yeah there you cannot bid unless you have the money you cannot ask contractors contractors spending thousands of dollars doing a bid you can't go out there and oh oh well you know we decided the town voted against it and all you know all 10 or 15 contractors who probably spent you know I don't know what they spend but probably spend five to six $110,000 I was going to say 10 10 10 right yeah and and the state has some news about that and so normally I tell you my last five jobs we did the drawings and then we went to town meeting with a hard number if you go to town meeting now you don't have a hard number you have only a feasibility guest understand yeah yeah so so I think you know that's gonna happen this weekend when you're at Saturday and those people Town people are going to be going up to the booth they're going to see these pictures what's the first thing they're going to ask we all know what they're going to ask or why why we some are going to say why are we doing this some are going to say how much is this going to cost I can tell you right now I know I have the answ for all no it's not easy not hard either not hard the to feasibil that's we're do we have enough money within that 300,000 that we got no Grant to cover that no not even close my my subc Consultants are going to be probably 150 C that's not and we do all the work I mean they do they do a lot we give them all the shelves we give all the all the documents and then they they fill in their pieces but it's yeah it's very expensive John what what are we so if we do do that which I don't think we should but if we did do that how much are we talking about 70 roughly 70% of the Fe 30% is bidding in CA conr ruction management constru construction admin I'm sorry construction Administration yeah and bidding bidding bidding has gotten a lot more economical for everybody because we do it online um and um we usually carry we carry probably 5% for bidding and 25% for CA it it varies a little bit but on new construction on a clean site that's about what it is so if we went to town meeting just to get the um the design done how much would we need he doesn't know yet well he must have a I have a number it's um it's 70% of 1.2 million it comes out to 650 is for Lanta 70% of 1.2 6 and a half 67 so we did do that we go to T TOS people and say we do this get then we're going have to come back in front of him again for the final number so we're going to see him twice yes yes every town I work and done that every once it's a step process yeah it and I can tell you right now I do I I don't I can't quote it right now but I know I've run into this B in the town of hon they didn't have an OPM and you you have to think about that by the way I have a number in there for yeah we got it yeah you you have to have an OPM and hopefully it's within the town which saves you a lot of money but but they against our recommendation they they decided to bid the project they had funding for the drawings from a grant they have a $500,000 Grant so we we did the drawings and um they bid it without having approval the town and I can tell you the contractors went to the state to complain I don't know what the rules are anymore they they've changed but I can tell you right now it's not really fair as it depends how hungry people are we could have 15 contractors buing this or we could have five just it's it's it's really a very so would you like me to specifically request that the town manager the assistant Town manager attend the next meeting to walk through that process probably a good idea yeah absolutely I'll send out numbers if you can give me your St i' like to have 10 but I'm not sure people will get me the answers because it's pretty um yeah that's true um they would yeah we would be meeting during this s board meeting so that wouldn't work we could meet earlier before their meeting there any way Carol that you can postpone one one W yeah I me yeah I mean maybe I don't know it's I have I have a new job you know I'm a music director of church and I'm trying to get choir going and the only day for choir is Wednesday so um what time um seven so I mean one option would be to meet at five or 430 did you meet it really like that I can meet at 4:30 like 45 it's fine it's better for me D home in the Wednesday work that's not a problem because you here we don't have to have the town hall especially for us not retired people yes well that's that's fine with me Dennis can make that and it's 16th so the 15 it's the 15th right well if if it's Tuesday but if you I'm flying out Tuesday do the 15th I can do the 16th okay so it's going to be Tuesday the 15th 4:00 I thought it was Wednesday no we can't do it 16th is when I'm leaving I do the I could do Tuesday but I'm flying Wednesday 15 5 o' for the for the next meeting busy meeting four o' four o o' four yeah well I think Dan as a kid in baseball or something what's dinner four o' 4:15 4M on the 15th yeah Robert can come okay all right so Tuesday the 15th 4 pm um and I'll invite Robert at this location yes okay and then um I guess Pauline are you still there you had your your hand up I'm still here Katie thank you for recognizing me but I am totally lost in your last discussion I will just ask this you you've just spent a lot of time figuring out when you're going to meet next and I'll wait for that have you all settled on a design and a price so we're we're still in in the process of that obviously it's being refined as we go but um I mean it's it's about as defined as it's going to be for the feasibility study portion feasibility yes and I don't want to interrupt I'm sorry um but it is my understanding that maybe there'll be a new architect and a new design coming forward from my conversations with members of the committee and I just am I guess a little confused listening to everything that was said tonight it seems like this 1456 million project is is the design so the I I'm not sure who you talked with on the committee but I can speak in general to that is that the idea is that we chose JN as our architect for the feasibility study right and when it goes out to construction you have to rebid that process right right so but I mean you can you can you don't that that I would need to clarify I mean for all intents and purposes it makes the most sense to with the same person but I don't know that that's necessarily a requirement is that what you're is that what you're speaking to you know what Katie I'm not 100% sure because it's been very confusing and I just really want to say if if we are going with this single design I think that's unfair to the residents especially seniors myself included who are going to pay for this I think we should have alternative options I don't know if you're going to have 150 to 200 people every day at the center and and and that's what you're aiming for there are over 300 parking spaces based on my based on my account and I don't know that you're gonna have that kind of access on a daily basis I just share that as my own right no so colen I just I want to correct you there are 92 spots plus 11 Ada spots so that's the number um you know I'd have to I'd have to do some digging um historically for the town I'm not aware of very many Municipal projects where there's like multiple options to choose from um typically the the committee that has been charged with that um goes through that process and makes a recommendation that's I I I think there's a place for public input um as we go forward and there may be modifications that are made based on that but you know there are as many opinions as there are people in town and so um the reason that there's a committee that works on it for for so long is that you know they're trying to to build build a consensus and to and to make a recommendation Katie I agree with you you know I've been on many a committee and I understand the process I just don't know where this design has even been vetted in the public you all haven't voted to approve this design and I just think that there's been no public Outreach whatsoever yet I realize you're working on it I'll give you that yeah so that's you know it's it's a a bit of a chicken and an egg that way right if if it's not at least well formed enough that you have a sense that it's it's fairly firm enough to get a cost estimate then you go to do public input and it's it's inconclusive right because people don't know whether they support it or not because there's not enough information so right now I think we're finally coming to the point where we have a solid enough design that we have a a decent cost estimate that we really can go out with a with a a good presentation with which to get public input and feedback on but if I remember last meeting you actually had a resident at 18 Pond indicate she was not in favor of the design so I I really don't know if this is getting the public input it needs and I'll just leave it at that I'm not going to debate this with you Katie I'm sorry I appreciate your opportunity to say I had to say absolutely thank you thank you have a good night I would just say that because I'm very interested in the public uh input portion of this and we we're trying to put together some uh documents to put together to give people about the building and about comparable costs at other centers and all kinds of things that we would give out when we go to these meetings so we are preparing for that public input which we have haven't done yet because we are finalizing the design and the cost and the information that we need so I think Pauline we will definitely and we're trying to be pretty inclusive in terms of reaching out to a lot of different people and um organizations and everything like that so and I appreciate that Ellen I do I just think I'm a senior I'm well into my senior years I've never accessed any of the senior activities because I live alone and I'm capable but the fact that we are presenting a uh plan or design shall I say to a population who may or may not use it without them having an opportunity to design it is unfair because they're going to pay for it so I think the fact that this committee might choose a design without public input is wholly unfair and I'll just leave it at that yeah the meeting's open anybody open the meetings are wide open we've had over 20 committee meetings I've given um probably six presentations here at the senior center for our current users I try to keep them updated about every other month about how it's going to the point where some of them are rolling their eyes at me now when I say let um so but it it is a process you know it is yes and the select board and the finance committee so we're out there but we're right at the cus we're right at really the beginning of the public input phase we are so that's that's where we're headed next so all right um do I have a motion to adjourn I make a motion to adjourn right wonderful seconds all right all in favor I I can't vote but I would you everyone