today is Wednesday June 26 2024 and this is a meeting of the senior center site selection and building committee this meeting will be held in person at the location provided on this notice members of the public are welcome to attend this inperson meeting please note that while an option for remote attendance and or participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting or hearing will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by laww members of the public with particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for imperson versus virtual attendance accordingly this meeting will be live on Zoom the public May access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting ID 375 414 6055 or by calling 92925 6099 for additional information about remote participation please please contact Carly antonelis assistant Town manager at ATM a.m. us or 978-772-4864 [Music] that might work so um otherwise um the folks at home I'll just try and give good verbal uh descriptions of which document we're looking at to be accessed from the website so all right so I call us to order at 606 PM um anyone have any uh amendments to the agenda did I did I see the minute for six1 no that was going to be my amendment is um I didn't realize that um I didn't realize that Meen was leaving the town manager's office so she did not do those minutes so I'm GNA need to go back and um so we you start yeah so I'm gonna need to go back and listen to the recording and do the minutes so I will do that so I don't know if we need to formally I I was assuming that the minutes were um the C notes from last we could do that do that the I don't I think they have a different purpose so okay so I will I will do the June 10th um meeting minutes from the recording for our next meeting does anyone want to volunteer to do the minutes from tonight's meeting you can do it from the recording if you want later so you can fully participate now okay thank you Dennis um good that's what clerks are for awesome that's right all right um I don't know if we have to formally amend the agenda for that we can just not have the minutes ready okay yeah we should amend custom so we don't need to amend it any I'll make a motion we approve the agenda as as amended okay second all in favor hi hi hi sh says I great wonderful so uh that brings us to a recap of the June 18th select board um meeting where um Ken and I and Carolyn was there and who else was there someone else was there I was audience several of us were there to give the update um basically we just walked through step by step what we had done thus far that we had paired down the properties we had hired the architect we had um begun working on the program uh the we gave him a budget amount that we oh yes right budget what of The Architects that we had hired the architect and we gave him the amount yeah um they wanted to get the amount out there yeah was spending right one thing we forgot to do if you don't mind this year is we forgot to tell him that we had done tours of other senior cators I don't know if people knew that already and not we had done we forgot to report we had done like four tours I think or something wrong can't remember if that was in my report not hi come on in um maybe pull up or maybe you want to go this I'm I've got spr here um all right that's yeah I mean they heard the update they were pleased to receive it yeah you guys did a good job and was good too because Chris devars is a new select board member so kind of keep getting him to speed MH yeah that went one um okay so that brings us to kind of the meat of tonight's meeting the discussion of the preliminary soil and traffic data for both of the sites we're considering and there was a wealth of information thank you Dan for um giving us the um the initial soil data I can pull that do you want me to do you want do you want the laptop or okay you want me to do that for you uh well I mean since you're pulling up those documents and then we also had a lot of them from the school uh project you there we go oh no those technological yeah it is definely HDMI must somewhere hold on I think it's okay all right so for anyone following on zoom we're on the 42 hydrologic document from the town website yeah so kind of you want me to summarize a little so whenever you know Engineers especially when we're doing storm water calculations the first thing we do is is look at this web soil survey and basically there's been a survey done um this is the middle sex County Geological Survey and it it you know DeMar at certain areas by soil types and there's four hydrologic soil groups there's a b c and d and um a are your best draining Sandy type soils and D are your ledgy areas that do not drain well um so in this on this map you can see the purple those are 255c that's a type A Hy hydrologic soil group I don't know it's is that the dra well yeah so that's good actually have to go down here's the legend purple light purple but um it gives a description of each so we were in 255c I think it was so it's mostly sand and which is you actually see that out there when we go up there there's some embankments which our guys called Sugar Sand so type A well draining soils which is good you know that would be good for septic um you know if it's somewhat gravy too it be better for foundation but here's your four groups a b c and d so a is your best e easier wor so so this site the soils look pretty good just based on that on this mapping here it does look like where's the brush down here right there the gray one they call it a gravel pit yeah so that's a they called that a gravel P does have a designation I don't believe yeah not rated so in there we'd have to you know do some more exploration to confirm what's there and then what's 32b is a I believe so um where him lomy find sand so it's it's an a soil um remember a means what it could be something to deal that's been developed before could be a d at the bottom the legend I think it indicates what ad b d CD oh go all the way I think you're right very well down here right all the way down yeah there it is yeah it's a signed dual the first letters for drained areas second for undrain okay yeah that's what it is so so if the area is drained it's an a otherwise it would be a d because it would be submerged or very wet so the soils in the bishop roadside in short are look pretty good very good just based on this um look at the other now we're moving over to the gron Harvard Road hydrologic docent oh paen sorry you got your hand up paen yes Katy I just want you to know I know you're having technical difficulties over there but none of the screen Shares are coming through on Zoom right I'm okay with that I'm the only one here but you might want to look into how you can fix that for when you post it yeah I I'm having an issue with my particular laptop this evening so are you able to pull up on the town website to follow along as we're doing it if I'm announcing which file it is no I I understand that and I'm the only one out here so don't worry about me because I looked at it all today but I just wanted you to know that okay thank you you're welcome um so very very similar um you know diagram for gron Harvard Road the school area that's in the white 654 so that's UD dorin lomy that's an area that's been developed and filled with loming lomy materials so that's an ad or excuse me I'm not rated um and then we have an area along the sides of the surprise even see that's in the purple which is which is an a soil 424d but it's funny when you look at it CU it does mention Boulders yeah Canon find Sandy Loom you know it's got pretty significant slopes we know that 15.5 extremely bouldery still rated in a and then the remainder of this area the 104d 104c here's more 104d those are your ly areas so hollus Rocko crop these are type areas um which we can see you know we've been up there so obviously it's a lot more challenging of an area to to build in which we already kind of know but this is backing it up with a little bit of data the part I'm a little confused on this one the part where we would be building on this is what that little purple area under the grve so it's kind of to be determined in this general area right we haven't set definite but yeah it could be part of this gray could be part of the purple here do it mainly like gray that practice field yeah so practice field we're kind of talking about right alongside that practice so it's they really highlight areas that were like you know developed before filled in that's what this is really highlighting this new dorans W yeah so how how big is that um purple par this yeah I don't know I have to measure it it I mean I think it tells on the what's the tells on the I you know I looked at this earlier and it tells on the next uh yeah keep going there one of those is area so yeah there's there's okay there's 20 almost 24 Acres of 424d that's within this entire rectangle so you have 424d up here so it's that and this so we have to you could get a rough on that it seems like a good size you know practice field near it once again slopey so be gring work but you know actually I was surprised to see it there I was U are you going to put up the other um the photo the old photographs they gave us at all is that we don't have that right yeah I put up all those documents I'm just not sure the only thing was PDF probably mine that's yeah oh you excuse me it was in the report that we don't have it up there it was in that long long report that was on that one was you have to connect to the year was that the master plan reevaluation it was like 340 pages but Cindy put them up individually you guys had to all look at the zip file to see it it wasn't the one I'm referring to was the engineering draw The Stuff ads it was up online I couldn't get it I couldn't get the thing to download it was too big but the long what I'm getting at is the the photograph actually showed that um it's that one no it's oh or no or maybe the test pits and Laboratory Testing one no that's all the the school stuff it's the what's that site that we had to go to yeah no it's this one that's it right there sorry okay so way down in the bottom of the photographs and it's interesting that it shows the oldest photographs show a lot of that area to be um cleared in the past which is pretty cool it's not this one no so you found this one right here these ones this is that document I got the email this one had the 1960s flyby right but it was part of this ads I had Cindy post all of those files so we just have to figure out which one it is she didn't post it it's not there I check the FL oh she didn't post that one see oh okay all right it's a really complicated file for her to post okay so anyway what I'm getting at is the photographs indicated that where that practice field is the back in the back practice field that was cleared all the way way to gr and have a drove in the past sometime in the past I saw that was that means that's new growth over there which is probably better yeah it probably more so coincides with yeah there you go that one right there I don't know if you want to pass that around to folks on the table but that's a real what's 1960 or something yeah yeah 1960 I think this was around the time they were doing con they were constructing the school you can see it clear it all the way back there can you see it so the positive point on that was that that we were looking next to that practice field at one time was cleared work was done station smaller day yeah that area was cleared all the way to the street back okay yeah maybe I can screenshot some things out of that later if they're relevant to post I'm sorry I thought all of those were post I know that one is a really lengthy document yeah that's a really you know interesting report yeah it's they start around uh page 18 in that document okay okay so any last comments on I mean I think just in general in summary the bishop roads like really good soils it probably wouldn't be too challenging building over there it's kind of a blank slate over here we got slopes over here on gr Harvard Road slopes ledge Boulders so there's going to be some challenges if buildings done storm water utilities the building itself you know it would be challenging I mean it's not that it can't be done but oh that's possible we figure out what it's going to cost to bring the utilities to the two sites you want to talk on that now or but I'm sorry I probably should have had I kind of meant that to be under soil traffic and utilities we talk do the traffic first and traffic I out I just want Google and I looked at the two sites and seeing how bad how busy traffic is going along both sides so I'll start this honestly not much going on out there pretty quiet you get your you just have your main road but yeah not much is going on so there's not really much to say there as long as you don't have to get on Park Street yeah exactly that's that's the extent of it the traffic study indicated what was going on on Park Street not yeah exactly it well this exactly it's not seeing those people that are cutting by and is this from Google yeah yeah that's why it looks like the traffic when you're driving Google here get it and I said projecting a particular day for the washingt one I did like what time you would be opening yeah exactly so that's just I was talking to the realtor downtown and she had an idea you know we was saying that it might be difficult for people to take a left to get into she was suggesting that you come up brought Harvard and you make it a right turn only into the place into it and a right turn out of the place so you can't you don't have any Crossing traffic so you have to come down Washington come up Broughton Harvard to come in and when you leave you have to go down Broughton Harvard and to put some kind of a planter in the middle so people couldn't take the left to come in as a way to mitigate traffic that's what they have at Shaker Hills go for right you can Goa oh did they change it they must have done that just this year no they that that's that's problem that's it was approved I mean coming from the from the East side of town then you have to essentially go through town to it's all going to be a balancing act when we get where we're going Washington State so you're you you just stepped right by quickly the first yes it's sorry yeah the dump the the dump site we just just looked at it said that looks fine you're right um it really didn't tell much going along that actual that actual Bishop wrad okay it didn't really tell much um I think it would be the trick there is morning in the afternoon yeah it sounds like morning and the afternoon people are coming in and it's local people and whatever Center would be open most cases think of it yeah and probably almost after it's close yeah yeah yes you just be missing it so okay um one thing too that just to be aware is and we've done this a couple times in town is you can create a a speed zone a safety zone in areas with vulnerable users and then includes senior centers so you can knock the speed limit down to 20 you know sign that speed feedback signs we're doing that right now with our Sandy Pond Road complete Street project then we're going to be doing it up near the hospital as well so those are the two zones in there right now so it's it's Mass do it's kind of a relatively new law that they allow us to do that so so you could technically do that and I think it just enacted the board engineering study 25 of up on Bishop 35 just was there I thought it was 25 everywhere in town unless otherwise posted it is posted at 35 is it really yeah just be on the gate5 I think more so the gron Harvard Road site where it is tricky that yeah that yeah you the everyone for school and such right all right thanks for that the beauty of the the well another feature of the Bishop Road is there's room for expansion of that road if you had to add a lane for turning you know to create left a lane that just went into the senior center left turn lane there's plenty of room to build a lane around them traffic to pass I don't think we have that opportunity necessarily on the other street but well Harvard I would think we have to there going to be wor have to put in another lane or a turning lane or something driving that street you just tend people tend to crank up it and down as soon as they bu be other the transfit station yeah just it's that vertical yeah the hill the transf people com L because turning out of the transfer station I feel like I'm taking all right the other thing I brought here is we've been talking about these both these centers and I just kind of want to put them on one map I not centers ID kind on one map to kind of give an idea of what's around um I threw these rings on here and I labeled s um spot of interest um this first one is just an eighth of a mile radius quarter and and a half um so if we're looking over at the bishop um currently um we have what gas water and sewage up at the triangle I believe right uh Dan um yeah water right come from and then we have the closest thing we have over on Park Street is it goes up to the right in front of the cemetery before the I think it's either before the railro tracks or around the railroad tracks so both of those you're looking at almost a quarter a mile away to what to the closest utility uh water water gas and I think 100 it's it's distance so to the east there is actually sewer where that water is too okay so there's more to that but yeah but um I'll tell you more later when we talk about the cost all right other one and the other one we're right at that corner we have everything so it's it's within e of a mile and so yeah there is sewer on Washington Street not on BR Harvard Road no it's yes so if you're in that corner might be able hop over there with it can you Dan if we were to go to Washington this is a little technical but if we were to go to Washington Street gravity is that pump station still accommodate an additional that's a good question it's not a big station I we'd have to do the analysis yeah okay and what's what's there is that we going to be at cut through ledge to get all that piping in you can figurate a way to get it yeah well I don't know if you have to go through ledge or not but you'd have to do aysis and figure it out you it might be cheaper to go the quarter of a mile through sand and crap than it would be to go an eighth of a mile through ledge oh yeah Absolut that's probably a decent segue into your utilities yeah so I did I have a memo it pretty much was ready yesterday but I didn't want to send it because I didn't have the overhead electrical and other services cost from overhead but I I did look at Water and Sewer so so talking about the overhead um you know I haven't done a a calculation like that before we've had a few projects which sort of had some of that I tried finding stuff for it long story short I'm working with one of my Consultants who owes me a freebie and is going to kind of help me get a ballp parking so I'll get more information on the overhead cost um what what would in in your what would overhead costs include what's included in that number yeah so I mean it would be bringing the electricity from either the triangle or from the railroad tracks that's where the nearest overhead is so bringing it down the street um we'll be making sure that we have enough power for the facility so I don't know you know make sure exactly what we got to bring down and I'm sure there the primaries and then we'll probably look at what size of trans former you would need the facility I I haven't talked to the our consultant yet that they're going to call me probably end up being tomorrow but I would think we'd probably underground it too when you get to the site for the driveway the facility so kind you know be a little concerned so that's what I would you know in in short anticipate but I'll get more info from electrical engineers I work with for my consultant see um so for water and sewer so I did that analysis I forgot to bring my draft memo I don't have it in front of me but I do I have it in my head kind of so for water and Dan kind of just pointed this out the nearest water is the triangle it's about 1,650 ft from the site to that water the water that's town of Devon's water uh town of air water is just it's on the other side of the railroad tracks from the site so closer to Park Street there's a hydrant down there it's kind of hidden right now by some brush but that's where our we have a 6 inch spest cement me and that ends that's more like 2,000 feet to that one and you have to go into the railroad tracks um which will add costs so what's supplies the water to the cemetery because there is water at the C yeah so it actually is from our they're connected to our 6 in Main and they just have like a one in Sur that goes pretty far so it's really not ideal but yeah that's how they get it but it goes under the tracks it does yeah um so what I did was I looked at I didn't look at costing it out to connect to air and I didn't look at any impacts what's the connection fee if you go to Devin what's their rates compared to airs I didn't look at any that um but just the capital cost to make that connection from the site to devans it's probably somewhere between 500,000 and 750,000 and it it could be lower if we can do more horizontal directional drill the problem with that is we definitely want to bring you know at least a 6 inch size pipe to the site and you want to be able to flush that with a hydrant it's basically one long deim with not a what hydrants every 300 ft so even if you directional drill maybe you can drill and then tap in later but I don't know if we have to do open cut so in short but water cost that's what what I what I anticipate somewhere in that range 500 to 750k uh sewer so sewer is very similar in proximity there's a dev has a 42 in sewer trunk main at the triangle so that you can kind of see their wastewater treatment plant on the left side of the map so it's right before the Wastewater Plant they have their big big pipe um and then a we have seart which kind of goes right along the railroad tracks all the way from Shop and Save down to Brook Street that's our main trunk line coming from the Northwest portion of town unfortunately it's on the east side of the railroad tracks so you'd have to go under the tracks and it is further than devans again I want to say it's like 1,00 feet from the site to the air sewer and devans is again around the 1650 I did have record drawings for both the devans and air um existing systems so I kind of checked If gravity would work and it would not work uh the slope was too shallow um so you'd have to pump it there and just doing the numbers out you know you basically put in a force man and I had a cost of about $500,000 to get to the Devon site be the first did I get this wrong the first time you talked about deons did you say it was a th000 feet to the water de no 16 come up with thousand I don't know I wrote it so you a l50 yeah and so you know and then I talked to um John catl I was like hey have you done any septic systems for any of these sites similar he thought you'd probably carry around 880 to 90,000 for a septic system so you know no matter what septic would it's presumably be less expensive out here and we already know the soils are very good out here too so you're probably not having to build much of a mound so that that's likely what we would do for sewer say $100,000 or or so um prices are you know these are kind of present day prices that I'm giving you too and with inflation and the way things have gone construction costs just keep going up um so just keep that in mind I mean we basically carry 100,000 for septic system yeah so the the water and soore no part of the sore 500,000 would be subtracted from the water 500,000 they're two entirely separate numbers yeah yeah so it's ballpark somewhere between 600 and 850 for both yeah um or it's million two yeah I mean you might get some savings if you were to and we don't typically do this you can do like a stepped trench and install both lines at the same time sewer and water but you're kind of you're installing a force man you probably just directional drill that anyway for SE um yeah throw even a bigger wrench in it um to get to the tryland div we have to go through US Fish and Wild right so there's other things I know so I mean I can also look at it you know heading toward air which which might be might still be better in the long run you know like I mentioned if we're connected to devons there'll be a connection fee they'll charge us R and it has to be a six inch line at least because of the sprinkle system in the building exactly yeah minimum six yeah so I didn't even look at that I'm sure we get good pressure but you know the FL would be the thing up there along dead end yeah um um so water sewer gas nearest gas is Park Street and the triangle um but I did not even look at costing that I just assume we wouldn't bring gas to the site I don't know if it's PR if it's something considering one service like that yeah engineer for just one yeah if we needed gas for the any Notions on needing gas for the building you want to run it to run it on natural gas that's the best that's the best product but it they won't run natural gas that far for one building they just won't they won't do it so we can't do or we wouldn't use we would use prop propane I guess I mean I'm thinking yeah we could at least float it by grid and see see I mean I'm sure it be a significant cost but never get under the tracks and all that would excuse me they just wouldn't do that yeah it is it's at the triangle too so this would be the same deal now you have natural gas at the Su at your location yeah on Brook Street in Brook Street yeah you run those yeah so it runs there it doesn't go too much further say dead ends after our Highway garage yeah so yeah thanks that's a lot of work and I have a memo which has all that info and it pretty much queued up but I was waiting to finish overhead electric so particular with the septic is definitely doable thing and they put septic in at all to at the gas station there's no s going down there and turned out to be fine um the water is a problem obviously so what would it take to get a comfort level for the water to for a well I wonder how would we make sure we how would we get that testing or whatever that would make us comfortable um that's a good question I mean we'd have to look at Are there specific requirements from d like how many people it's going to serve and so that would add probably more testing when you do say for a private well right so um it's public just I'll just mention that the public well for this facility is a very very expensive item it actually often requires two or three Wells and then they have to be tested over quite a period of time and Dan I I Dan v i I believe I understood from our previous conversations in these meetings that we may have some contamination from devans is that yeah so I mean the more army or the more what do they call it nowadays the old Air Force Base more Airfield um yeah so there is p on that site I don't know the exact way the groundwater is blowing presumably toward the nsha but but yeah there there's potential there could be some P at the at the brush dump site I mcferson well has some and that's down along the Nashville further down M ferson Yeah Yeah by the kind of near the railroad bridge so right yeah John you're right that you know I would I would I would be S you know I wouldn't be surprised if it was contamination getting back to the water a second I'm not sure these folks know what directional drilling is at this table other than you and I um but you mentioned directional drilling that is a technology where you can put the line without trenching you just take it right underground with lasers and other technology and yeah pull the line under the ground it's pretty neat it's called horizontal directional driling so incredible stuff yeah so we did it um between Sandy pwn Road and right Road where Coler place the subdivision is we we directional drill a water M to create a loop over there and up your water yeah so from above ground they're able to use a device to to identify exactly where the the tip of the probe is and the the pipe they're pulling through it's pretty cool cheaper yeah it's yeah you can go pretty fast pretty pretty far pretty fast so we're actually we have a bid out to do that for another water m in town and given given the soil type it's unlikely they would run run into you know significant OB structions when trying to do that right yeah that's that's where when we were at Sandy Pond doing doing that work it took us like two days and they were already done it was incred it was like 650 ft 650 feet of pipe it only took like two days basically go in One Direction with the machine connect it to the pipe sections pull it back in pieces and put the pipe together as they pull it back yeah yeah they'll fuse the pipe that's hdp they fuse it as they pulling it back on the other end and just keep pulling back yeah yes unbelievable so we still have to figure out if we could get to Devon's water which is the shortest route and if issues in Wildlife care if it was underground enough it probably wouldn't all Direction growing but we do we want to take the risk of tapping into contaminated no no no de said the oh MC well we're not going to do it well oh yeah so devans does have past contamination in their public water supply well similar to us in air but they have treatment so if we were to' be on Devon's public water supply we we'd be fine so and for the fish and wildlife would it matter do you have any sense would it matter to them if it were just water or water and sore that is if it's just water and it's a water pipe and the water pipe breaks well you get a little more water underground that we know is okay if a sewer pipe breaks you know they may be more concerned about it the difference is that there's a 42in sewer pipe running right down in FA road right now to the river so they're putting up with that and all the other utilities there running yeah you know our Wastewater huge stuff everything goes down yeah everything from our waste water maybe they wouldn't care so we would underground yeah so we would anticipate that there may be they'll be permitting probably for sure it's complicated so so this is all helpful I this is not my area of expertise at all but what is what is the next step as far as how do we evaluate whether utilities sway us one way or another on one of these sites or how do we advance well go we go to the next side now yeah so yeah I mean I guess first question is you know so you've given us data for this site but what about data for yeah I haven't at that I didn't look at the school yet yeah but if we we know you always break it down in lineal feet right basically yeah so the water is was it 300 400 or foot or something like that I forget what the number is just 650 into 750,000 yeah um right we probably put a factor in for lead which is signant we could come up with something pretty quick yeah I could put that I can add that to the memo we' got 750 divided by 60 $450 or $500 a foot in water used to be 100 yeah that's it's yeah my my eyes pop when I see the class so if you only have to go you know out the street that the other site may only have to go 100 fet to get to water on the water's going right by the dump or excuse me the transfer station and by there's hydrants and everything right there on the other it's on the other side of the street but it's right by what used burum truck yep yeah it's like a 12 inch P it is yeah it's a big man yeah so that's going to be way less than any water at the other side oh for sure and and it's no connection fees or anything it's it's our it's the town of airs right we know it'd be good water we know we got enough pressure we know all that stuff W work yeah so it might be the $5,000 so we can say that the the capital costs for the utilities getting to the Bishop Road site and having the septic system built on site would be somewhere in the ballpark 600 just 850k that is 500 to 750 for the water and then about $100,000 for the septic yeah no natural gas you can put that down for that site and and electric Is Yet To Come and which is it's going to include the you asked a good question but it's not just electric it's Comcast it's cable it's un phone yeah you said overhead you meant wires that are running overhead yes what okay I was thinking that overhead as yeah we gota be careful when you just said that um it was a cost for water but then you said 100,000 sewer that that was there was still a 500 to 750 if you put an onside septic system it's it's only it's a lot less it's about 100 onside septic going stre because the material is good enough it'll it'll handle a septics time yeah long as the water tables right he so at this point we we have some rough idea that the utility cost getting those things to the site at Bishop Road will be more expensive than doing it at Washington Street I think it's going to be three or four times more exp yeah so so for the in the additional cost will be something on the order of I don't know $600,000 $700,000 more more way more because we haven't even talked about the electric yeah the only thought I had on electric if you don't mind is that you know St Mary's comes off the power line the transmission lines oh no does okay so the transmission lines that run right through the DPW site there's a low I say low but it's because it's not that you know 1440 where it's not just the low cost not the big heavy duty stuff we could potentially come overhead through the DPW land from that easement from the transmission line e there already a Transformer on one of the poles in in the in the behind the storage sh there's a Transformer already on the pole right so I'm talking about the same one but further down you know where the building is the potentially where the building that what's I mean where the where the shack where the shed is at St Mary's I'm sorry oh are you talking I'm saying use the same transmission further down correct through the DP land I'll mention so you don't have any easements you don't have any uh paperwork you don't have anything except installing the poles transforming and coming to the building maybe two Transformers depending on the have to bring the high power over and then Transformer at the building or something but that's that's a better route than going down the street that's good yeah I'll bring that up when I meet with my consultant okay see if that's something but it's still way way more money than going right to the street on Gren highy Road the power is right there yeah yeah right but the I guess my the larger point is we are calculating the costs of utilities for each of each of the sites we'll try it Y and we will come up with the number as best we can to kind of estimate what the additional costs will be for Bishop Road versus Washington but that's not the only calculation that will go inform our decision as to the preferred site that is the preferred site although it may cost more in terms of utilities may have other advantages or or vice versa that so you know I I know that it's important to calculate the costs but there are other things about the site that have to be taken into account before we arrive at a preferred site I agree with that but in the long run it's going to be there are going to be things we have to overcome when in the design and then the site plan and a lot of just the layout of the whole plan and having utilities behind is a a big game let's put it that way to try to not have to bust up but to figure out how to get the utilities there would be a savings because we have enough unknowns doing everything else that's my thought anyway just my own it's it's interesting that the I think we well I was always tipping towards you know the brush jump location but now that we start looking at it like not going to be difficulty would it be possible to Overlay the contour lines with the soil type with um like maybe it's part of that memo or just as a different F ver because I'm what I what I guess I'm trying to understand is if if you if you do that are you still left with enough land that has that's both flat and has the right kind of soil at the Gren Herbert Road Site we can make that land work machines do you guess might be more yeah okay I agree with that I think I think the Harvard site the School site certainly is a manageable site in terms of building um ledge is is an issue but it's not really nothing close to the kind of utility costs um the the one question that I think Katie brought up is make sure we have enough room for parking accessibility at the same time placing the building on it I think Dan had shown a a site plan showing a a 10,000 square foot footprint which keeps the building contained but it's really important to note um other amenities and one amenity that that the school has is that it has playing fields which are are good walking areas also um good places for folks to see the games so they both have really pluses and minuses and as we narrow this down we're going to see where the pluses and minuses play out uh each site I think has particularly strong points and uh we have a little bit longer to go here but this is really a good conversation that we're having that's my two pits uh yeah I was going to say how far down this road do we go uh can we can we go with two sites um you know to lay out of the yeah you know essentially what Catelyn was saying well one thing is that Dan's Dan V is g to be giving us some good numbers and I think what we want to do my Dan arts and myself um is to to look long and hard now at both sites getting the building on it showing access for traffic and access to the to the site itself and the parking arrangements so that we can tie that all together with the utility cost to see where there may be some real issues with the Harvard site uh we really don't know yet but I think by our next meeting I think we should have some good good numbers to make that decision for this committee my for the Harvard site my my concern I mean it always you know truth to be told it's always been that for since the Inception of the committee we have always kind of wanted or stressed the need of kind of accessibility to seniors and to be near downtown and to be kind of on the way to what they are doing during the day so that it's more easily accessible for them or more kind of visibly accessible for them and when I think about my daily travels and where I go and where I'm likely to be on my way to just you go down Park Street to access almost anything in town um the gron Harvard I would tend to be on my way out of town or to the brush St or to the transfer station um you know it's it it feels more downtown to me yeah I mean but you know I'm I'm on the Eastern ede she has a long and you know uh so you know for me the um the School site is is much closer I can even walk there you know and and and you know and my travels rarely take me through town you know may be bad on me but but that's just I'm I'm completely on the other side of town so I never go past the high school I'm always on Park Street from Bishop I think it depends on what neighborhood and I mean if you look at the this map you actually really see downtown as kind of equidistant between them both yeah yeah you are oh question I think a case can be made a case can be made both ways here in terms of uh where the sites are I think what it comes right down to it's going to be usually our experience is it comes down to um and I think as you involve the community a little bit you'll get some input from the community but it really will ultimately come down to cost um it's getting very expensive to build buildings today and when we see that we're adding maybe a half million dollars to one site we have to see some really positive advantages to that site and I think the next phase of putting the buildings on the site and see how they fit and beginning to I think involve the community um I think will help us understand because I I think we hear one one side saying well that site's closer for me and the other person saying it's closer for me over here that's going to be across the board it's it's just what it is and Katie does point out that the center of town when you look at these is really not too far apart um so I think let's let's not worry about the geographical location right now I think we got to look at the feasibility of both sides in terms of cost in the end we have to sell the cost of this building too and um that's going to be part of the challenge so I think the next phase is for Dan V to give because his electrical gas you know septic sewer water costs you know these are all very rough estimates because we don't have all the engineering in the place that that's going to start telling us what's going on I think the actual building cost physical building cost will not be as big of a deal unless we discovered there's some kind of subsoil problems at either site I mean the bishop could be organic material um not suitable support uh the Harvard site might be ledge being in the way uh in some cases if ledge is not too far down I mean it's like seven or eight feet down it's actually helpful so we need to do that and I think part of this next phase is to get out there with a back hole and get to school to give us permission to dig a couple holes and to um make sure that we know what's down 10 12 ft where the water table is the water table will have real effect on the septic at Bishop and we like to make sure we understand that so I think the next step is to consolidate our thoughts and start applying numbers to it and see how they balance out I don't think we need to decide a site certainly not now but I think as Architects we we'd like to look at both sites very closely and U take our take our time to understand where we can get this in both on budget and physic physically accessible thank you hope that wasn't too long that was good no that's helpful G I make one more comment about the school the site on brh road it just Dawn to me now that as far as explaining the location it's pretty easy to explain people that it's the right near the high school it kind of almost makes sense you know that the another building up in that land would it kind of just in increase that area as a workable spot in town you know for that kind of activity whereas the other one is a little bit remote might be hard to cemetery you know yeah passive cemeter you know I just want to say I've mentioned to a couple of people that one of the are that you're looking at is across from the transfer station and I've had some negative response to that that people have like oh I don't like that I don't know why I don't know if they're worried about some kind of contamination or other but um that might be something that would come in contact with the the other thing to consider is and again I yeah so the other thing that I am considering is because the building you know was a 30 to 50 year kind of entity that we would want the town to be able to increase its use of etc etc that at gron Harvard Road there is the school there the transfer station conservation land yeah it it's pretty much locked into a certain you know kind of this is the building and this is where we would put it but you you know your your ability to do anything else around it is constrained significantly well depends on what kind of construction you want to do I guess right and that Bishop Road is there more opportunity for expansion expansion or you know whatever happens at more Airfield and north post and and all the rest of it and to what extent does that inform our decision right that was a big part of the discussion that we had when we met with de right was that whole concept that you just mentioned was the fact that we want to see the that part of town you know more things develop with near the river and we walking trails down by the River and you know whatever you the whole whatever we had to talk about I I've been approached by two different people about expanding this to including attached Community Center and bu and all this and I said right now we're focused on the senior Cent you know but it would be nice to have room where there could be expansion if that came up well what if I can just intervene here briefly that was the whole idea of the park site was to have a community center connected with a senior center it made a lot of sense there but that got shot down I think the OD one of the concerns we always have for community centers which are more intergenerational if you will is the understanding that um that we're always con concerned about mixing of very young people amongst very old people on a regular basis so it becomes an operational thing but I think the bishop Rob site from what I looked at and and maybe Dan V can help us here um it it's not all that roomy now Devin ends up throwing some land to the town that'd be a whole another story but it it I didn't see that kind of space um maybe Dan V could help us understand there's some Wetlands nearby there I know yeah I mean obviously we'll have to accommodate the the brush dump and where that demarcation is but um but I think what what Ken was talking about was opening up towards the Nashville River creating you know pathway there things like that but I forget how many acres do you remember when we did you do Kon measured it out on did on a mass mapper because it was more than we more the two minimum it must been like five or something there all kinds of yeah big it was a big number I mean I don't but it was yeah so I think there is some room there yeah there's room on both sides yeah that's there's not that you have the entrance and we have the open area but there's room on both sides of that open area there that's tree right now yeah but there's plenty of room to clear and do something was it labeled on this document here no that came from no we we want to move on to FL plan I mean other thoughts on I guess the next step is what Mr katn recommended how do we get a back in both places so if we do that I obviously i' want to look at it for how where we access and where we do the actual pit and obviously the school we need per permission there right brush DP we can do do you have a do you have a clear understanding at both sites about exactly where on the site the building would be like where the middle of the building would be no actually yeah I think at the next the next stage we would give you a more specific we would not want to dig exact we want to do a test bit where the building's going but we want to do other areas on the site so we'd probably want to do maybe four or five um test areas um at each site and um so having the building kind of figured out is very helpful and I think by the next meeting we would certainly know that we could feed this information to Dan V in a in the next few days to for him to to give an idea where we'd like to see these test areas and um might maybe have it resolved before the next meeting or or very shortly thereafter you have any preference John for just doing uh work with a back hole or do you need to do any other U testing the road down the road we we drill we go down 25 feet you will do that okay thank yeah we that would H happened with our Geotech the one concern we have is understanding the soils all the way down uh understanding where the water table is and whether we do run into you know organic material or or or rock you know whether by the way large Boulders are a problem too so we could find out about that and both sites I'm I'm sure one site's going to tell us about ledge the other site will tell us more about how good the soil really is um and I think I asked Dan V and and I don't think there's any record of any other building on these two sites that that Dan was able to come up with I think they're both relatively clean yeah as far as I could find go ahead sorry yeah go ahead no I'm just saying that that's a really good that's a really good indication the only downside of our test pits will be if we find there was something there and that's why we dig you know maybe five if if we try to get enough done in one day you know arriving at 8 getting done at 4 we generally with a good back ho um we can get down pretty far and and probably get at least up to four maybe five we'll give you a list locations U our parts will do that with me and um yeah and I'll I'll work with the highway Division and and fited in um and I want to say we can get down about 9 ft with our back though yeah oh it's a short one yeah it's not yeah it's not the nine feet is good we like 10 to 12 we like 10 to 12 but nine feet Dan Arts the shovel he'll go that requires a trench and Sh we'd be with 9 fet at this stage of the game because when we get into actually really designing the building we're drill we'll drill Oh Katie where do we stand with the school department in terms of well so I so the last meeting so we met Dan and I and Robert and Dr Renda manager and Dr Renda met um to just sort of generally at a 10,000 foot level discussed the project he was supportive of it we had a second meeting with two members of the um air members of the school committee who were also um supportive of the project but wanted us to be aware of where the existing field expans expansion plans were that were part of that larger project that was done a few years ago so that's where all of these documents to let us know you know that um we all saw um came from was to see sort of if there was an area we wanted to ideally or optically be able to stay away from um you know as we combin so I think that would be really interesting to kind of lay on top any relevant contour lines maybe they're not relevant but like and then the soil data and then that practice field expansion as you're looking at where to site it at the Gren Harvard Road site to see if that's possible to stay outside of that area um but I think the next step would be for our group to make a presentation at a school committee meeting you know and to then ask for their permission to to do the so are we GNA need some kind of a contract or a just an agreement or something like that before they can start drwing I mean should if it's a DPW within the town I mean own for technically Town property that's an interesting proper I think would be already shared and everything so yeah if we dig and it's not viable then we're not GNA need to do it any I mean I think we need to have the conversation with them officially um before we do it I don't think we just want to show up and do it so um I think I think that would be our next step they still meeting in the summer that I don't know I think maybe that's a homework item to figure out when they're meeting next and then so so the question for the SCH the school committee or the school administration school committee the full school committee so the question we would have for them is will you give us permission to dig test test pits test pits location beyond the bracket Street that's um and they say well exact where do you want to dig these test BS and then we say we show them and then we're good to go unless they say no they can't say no and they could they don't have to say yes can't say no right but we don't if we want to kind of move forward with this that is we we have to avoid I would assume and in antagonistic relationship with the school committee if we want to maintain right we certainly they don't have any don't have CLS to say no to go put a machine out there in a back area and take a couple test fits it's a procedural thing but I think it would be more collaborative to involve them and it wouldn't be that much effort on our part to them we should do it yeah absolutely I I think you need if anything you could you could really end up with a badad taste in people's mouths if we just go in there and dig some holes I think Katie's right you know the group give the heads up the point is we're not going to go in and dig the holes but we need to get it resolved right that's the problem these things just take forever to get an answer on that's that's the issue in my opinion so I'll see if we can get I'll find out when the next school committee meeting is what's the process for getting on their agenda and then we can put together a presentation and agree with people to to do that does that seem seems pretty simple to me and I think it's important for them to understand as well that again they are not the only site under consideration and that this doesn't this does not commit them to you know whatever and it doesn't commit us to anything it is simply a test to see if it's Sim yeah to similar to what we're going to do at it's a typical construction process that you have to do get through the project um the other thing that's important I think to remember is that we're talking about communicating with the members of the school committee that are from air and not the entire school committee that was a Rec that was the information that we were given well that was the sort of as you you start the conversation informally and then it rolls along and then so now I think if you're going to ask for Town Council only had Shirley not Shirley an air town meeting no no you said the only people on the school committee were the air because Shirley had no jurisdiction of the air land exactly is what he had said I thought the entire school committee would have had to meet to declare that Surplus that's not what they we were told by Town Council and we've got okay all right we'll go back okay so then I'll clarify that the research that was done okay came back that said yes it's was given originally to the school it was given to the town for municipal purposes then it was given to the school for yeah but it wasn't the school board at that time it was a school something or other they called it something that doesn't even exist anymore right but therefore that piece of action said that it was basically under the control of the air members of the school commit okay I will clarify that um so to determine if it's only the if it's only the air members of the school committee that would need to give their blessing to drill then that's a smaller easier faster meeting to coordinate so I'll just I'll clarify that now now I'm confused so but further on in the process when it comes time to if if if gron Harvard is indeed the selection the school committee vote on that thing would have to be the PO school committee that's what we've been told would it have to be by vote of the residents of the town of Shirley no not believe so the so the Shirley members of the school committee neither the Shirley members of the school committee nor the town of Shirley will be able to kind of raise objections to this that would prevent it from happening so so I would like to clarify that part of the memo because when I read it the first time oh you have it right here I read it to be that the school committee not specifying there only but the school committee would have to declare it Surplus and then a vote of air only town meeting to confirm that that but I didn't see a piece I I didn't read a piece that was the subset of the school committee we'll clarify that but it does not involve a early down vote at all but for now we just want to dig a couple of holes yeah six six holes okay so I will find I will find that out definitively who that meeting needs to be with um okay so do we any other thoughts on the soil piece or do we want to go to the draft all right let me pull that up here it's exciting all right um so over the past couple days I've been working around with the program to kind of develop a floor plan um this is the roughly 9,000 sare foot first floor uh the the orientation of the building is it will move whatever what we need to do for the site um but we would have our main drop off up front here coming into the vesu um which will then right into the reception area reception check in uh Cafe over here a little bit more of a louder area people can meet and get to what uh get ready for whatever they're doing for the day Message Board see what's going on um and to check in uh and then then we got more of a lounge area a little B more quieter moving into the library um we have a double-sided fireplace here kind of like buffering that sound from this area into the library um we have an activity room off of the Lounge area um with casework and a sink moving over here we have our multi-purpose room that's divided into 2/3 1/3 um folding partition here on the smaller side you have access to the kitchen uh dirty door clean door uh with your service entrance we we'll eventually lay out a kitchen um we have our pantry that leads out to our service area um up here in our reception we have room for three workstations an area for office supplies copier what have you um spot for two receptionists in office a director's office and then I have this other office over here with which um has access from the wall uh from the main hallway here well not really hallway Corridor um can be used for your veterans and other services um egas right out here um the store um this would be just like a service area uh we have electrical janitors spr flers bathrooms your main things um right here in the middle you have your elevator and you'll be going going up the stairs um but I can talk about that after if you have any questions about first flood um don't forget the don't forget the um medical storage we have the medical storage with a kind of garage door like roll out door um main door entrance um also that we do have like this brick area patio these are those um perable pavers over off to the front possible to put a a wash station in the medical storage if that's going to be bring all the equ in we can do we we can end up putting like a little hose bib right here and then eventually there could be like if you wanted a little station inside we can you can power wash out there yeah sorry so the in terms of one of the things that in terms of access to the outside from the rear of the building that is yeah how do we link the potential for walking trails on on Bishop Road or access to the so right now I have I have I do have a walking path going around the whole building we have EX from the multi-purpose room there would be one out of the library lounge and the cafe also has an exit coming out to like a little patio area up front so if somebody wanted to leave let's say it's gr harbard road if you wanted to go out the back of the building and up to the tennis court is first going to see well the so the orientation of this the way this is laid out now might change I might have to flip around turn some stuff around to make the site laying on the site this this is strictly the building itself how it integrates with the site this is not a feta complete this is very draft so what we want to do is get the rough beginnings of all this and then as it sits on the two different sites it could very easily have a reconfiguration it may Mirror Image the other way it it depends a lot about that what we're trying to do right now now is open this up and get people thinking about it and then respond back once we've gone through this um maybe at the next meeting to tie it down more but it's really got all the elements how they end up working together I think Katie uh as an operational person and you you folks as a committee need to kind of digest this and say maybe that maybe the multi-purpose room should be divided in the middle I don't know so we and how we get outside and how we get in and out of the building I think will really get F you know fine-tuned as we go along so I have a question so is this um this multi-purpose room that's a a twostory room two oh yeah open space yes and story and a halfed sh with the vaulted at the game exactly yeah because up on the second floor I do show a little bit of um when um openings where you can see down into you be able to see down into this space this is like a high area why don't you moov it up to the second floor and then we can go back and forth oh could I well go ahead do you want to finish the tour of the second floor or can I ask a question about um is there any way to either move this is a specific one either move the door to the activity room closer to the Ada restroom or to flip that see-through fireplace to come off the corner of the storage room because what I don't love right now yeah what I don't love right now is that that reception Furniture isn't in front of the fireplace on both sides yeah I'd love it to be yeah don't look at the Furnishing is just giving you space there's going to be a lot more Furnishing going on there are two doors the door I that stuff I I just meant like because you on this side of the fireplace you couldn't put Furniture right here on this side if the door was right there so put the door move over here okay all right absolutely absolutely I could even possibly look at the size of this room better if door swings because it might be able to swing in if it's we have a less okay occupancy but I would have to look at this is an off-the-wall question but do these little corners and all croppings is it cheaper to make the wall straight or how much additional cost does it make to add that little TW foot corner that sticks out there and here and here would it be easier or more cost these outside ones yeah this little two foot or four foot whatever that's going to be in that would it be cheaper push one wall over and make it a straight as opposed to having that 90 what's the what's the cost benefit or we can't be specific why don't we move to the second floor we we can get into that I'm not pushing that out of the way there's a lot of refinement that needs to happen as the size is kind of like mold a little bit together I I will be minimizing stuff like that and so right now there's only seven bathrooms on the third floor uh yes and only three on the second correct and that's average for a building side uh yes so yes yeah we're at about 13,000 14,000 square feet um North Andover is roughly around the same size and they had the same same bath count just understand for the ladies we have twice as many uh um um places fixtures versus the men the men can be mitigated by the urals the urals will will help us reduce the number of stalls I think the men's have two stalls the ladies have four um and then upstairs they're individual bathrooms individuals y all right so we're coming up the main stairs here to arrive up into the game area uh this space is large enough to hold to full Billard tables with the if so choose yes the space does allow for it I currently have like a little Island area sink um kind of a high counter um and then over here we have our fitness room I kind of just laid out a quick little um idea of equipment that would be in this room um visible access down to multi-purpose room you also have you can also see what's going on through the main stair I'm missing this but there will be a bench right here on a stair on stair Landing um and you have um see through here if anybody needs to rest or whatever they can continue up um we got two activity rooms divided in half um both with storage um casework and pa uh sink um visual to the multi-purpose room um and then down off this way we have our Wellness that's over in the corner here uh sync casework then janitors and then our individual bathrooms over here we have an ADA Bathroom with a shower I was kind of concerned to see that we only have um three activity rooms besides the multi-purpose room I mean personally I'm sorry I missed the last meeting but I find the the fitness room with all this equipment to be um too big to me it's too big it's excessive I mean we have people here at the 607s 80s I mean we I'm in Autumn Ridge which has 60 units and we have about 10 people who use our gym and that's not even weekly or anything so I think um yeah you're going to have a lot of you this these Fitness in all these centers are get very busy and the reason for that is that they're really designed to help first of all it's great for PT people with issues that can come in and work out on their own but what's really important is it brings in a lot of the younger seniors which is what our goal is here is to get them started early in this building so that they grow into it and um I'd be very careful to suggest that at some other location they're not might might not be as used um these centers I and Katie can check in with a lot of the different directors these are very busy areas and the fitness area um it could be smaller but making it a little bit smaller will not give us another activity room activity rooms are about 450 to 600 square feet each and uh we're trying to keep our square footage down to oh um under 14,000 if we can now BR charges like $50 a month to use the equipment room are you foreseeing that we're going to charge or anything or no that's up to you guys uh that's the only Center I know of that charges I know that in in um Holo the YMCA runs it but they don't they don't charge for that but they are allowed to use some outside people can use it too um and in um in uh uh I'm sorry in in long metal um and in um North Andover in wilam they do not charge I think we could do whatever op that's operational I got I've got a lot of questions go I'll hold until the end but I do have a comment about the fitness room and what actually happened in Graton you and I we did a tour dentist and I recently in Gren interestingly enough the room that they have the um fitness equipment in is marked as an activity room and the fitness equipment room became an very small room and the room that was marked was something else they haven't changed the signage was I think an activity room they turned in and they swapped the two rooms that's what I'm getting at interestingly enough so the first room you walked in on the left was marked with a different name but it had the fitness equipment in it because it was a smaller room the room in the corner of the building was a bigger room they took that equipment out was Mark Fitness room and turned it into an exercise room or something like that I think but this I was looking at this and thinking four years later four years later it'll change the other way I'm sorry folks I have to leave right now um Dan's going to continue to work thanks John I just figured the middle of this could be used for your exercise and yoga or whatever else right yeah so you could turn it into a more than just a a all that equipment well we don't yeah you can consolidate the equipment and use B of it somewhere else I guess well I mean when I look at this this is 899 square feet right that's that's a pretty big space the big space that's almost as big as this space right here lot so that's a smaller one than we have in wilam wilam was actually a larger it was 1200 but we she didn't have a lot of people who use that room well it just they just opened um but you know I think it comes I think it's a a choice we can certainly make operationally unless we don't want the room at all right but um that can be an independent use space like what you would typically think of a as a gym it can also be programmed like a circuit training um class similar to you know Monday morning Jeff's class with the temporary I mean just the handheld equipment but you could go through cardio and strength related activities if you did it in that room where the things that are currently happening in the Monday morning class do you go to that class you go to that class do you go to the Monday Tuesday okay so you could put those stations throughout um I think there's a lot of different ways to do it I don't I don't know if 8.99 8.99 does feel big but I hear John's point that if you make it smaller you're not going to get another room out of it and then you are actually limiting the purpose of that room but I think public this will be important too the other thing that's important to remember is if we build the first floor whatever it is 9,000 something like that this is going to just land right there but you're not going to shrink this up to save a couple of dollars you're going to build a whole freaking second floor anyway so the size up here might not but later on you can petition this off if you have to there's a window there but petition this off somehow make a room over here if you had to and reduce this we have to decide is we just want the the space and figure out how to use the space later on the use of the fitness room may change over time that is when it's first constructed we could not have all the equipment in it use it for yoga or stretching or you know light whatever and then as as people show their interest or you know and we need another treadmill because the line is backed up or whatever then we can kind of give to how you would Implement that that is the fact that the equipment is taking up such a large amount of room in that room might not reflect how it's going to be used right I would say that you'd want to go ahead and purchase as part of the construction project the equipment that you want in there versus otherwise that's going to become a capital request later on yeah it's a whole different funding mechanism that that equipment's probably what what would you say 10 to 15,000 a piece so you you really would want that to be rolled into Furnishing into the Furnishings of this and like you you might squish it all down in one part and you might not use it all initially but I think you would want to fund it I see start somewhere then as you need it I honest I I think the room's going to get used what would you but I but I'm curious your line of thought alen so what would if this room was excessively large which is what you originally thought what were you thinking instead in that space well my concern is it looks like you've got four places where you can do activities other than the c one which appears to be very open which uh I had heard that sometimes particularly if there was Billiards or something pars then the cards people were aggravated because it was very distracting and it was too loud right so I just feel like there's not a lot of room to grow in here I mean if you have suppose you have a um uh crafts or something going and then I think there's going to be a big demand for exercise in terms of whether that's standing sitting doing something with an individual or with um uh videos or something right as opposed to machines right right um and then down here you could have I understand you have a movie but youve also and then I guess there's something over there I don't know it just seems small to me in terms of our space options the whole thing seem small to you um no it's just I don't know I saw that there was something when I saw that um uh Fitness area which is that I was just like oh my god do we really need that but I understand the rationale but the thing is that's a lot of money and equipment that might not get used I mean I'd rather and I'd rather see us unless we get donations do less of course it's going to be harder to get the um don't get the money later but um I don't know I just yeah I would prefer to see more space where we can do other type of exercise I think exercise is one of the most popular things that people do in senior Cent so I would as I'm envisioning it the the downstairs main room has that 2/3 1/3 split you can leave the lunch tables up on the smaller section and then basically that larger section can run exercise all day long oh right downstairs down downstairs all day long unless you have a moving right exercise unless there's a moving all day long so you got a lot of opportunities in there at some point I'll ask you whether the dimensions fit into or pickle ball or not based on the slope of the roof and where it is 44 by 22 think like 8 or something yeah I can double check the height but currently this is a completely open space right okay yeah when I laid them on top of each other it didn't actually look like the whole thing was Ved but maybe the whole thing is vted so it's it's lower down here but by here is probably yeah I right now this still getting worked out the Angles and stuff like no problem so what I'm thinking is you've got you know to Ellen's point you've got the multi-purpose room running exercise all day long the activity room can have a multitude of of programs in it arts and crafts current events whatever um and then upstairs I would foresee um like knitting conversation group things that are informal and boisterous which the knitting group is boisterous um only in air happening up there's a reason that many many senior centers call them naughty knits there is a reason it's that way so um but that's a that way that's the up the downstairs reception and library is is a little bit quieter but if you've got an informal group of people but it's going to be more vocal they might be up in the card area and that might be alternating between cards and games and laughing sort of stuff and then you still have those two rooms upstairs because activity room two and three are both pretty large in terms of who you can accommodate in there so you could accommodate essentially two exercise classes always you know one in the in the main downstairs room and then one in one of the activity rooms absolutely yeah it that really becomes a matter of settling into whose classes need which equipment so that you're not so when I was a program coordinator I walked my 10,000 steps a day in a building about this size well before noon setting down setting up breaking down rooms BL like chairs and tables You' want to get into a Rhythm where if there was a class that needed free weights and yoga balls that it was that class was in the same room all the time with those other ones um which is a question I'm G to have for you later about storage in the main room um because you you don't want to be bowling up the stairs with a bunch of yoga balls fill the elevator stuff it full send it up you know it's an elevator not a not a D waiter no so but I mean I I'm open to you know suggesting other things I think people will use it but so we lost the conference room right there's no conference room there's no conference which to me is to me that's that was a a no-brainer um just because if you look at the and I I'll with a screen share I'll bring it back down if you've got one if if I'm meeting with one person one older adult or a couple they're going to be in my office if I'm meeting with um you know a couple or uh one individual and maybe the board of health nurse or something that let's say there's three four five of us were likely to be upstairs in the wellness room another private but still um still slightly bigger than my my office a little more configurable then if we go to a slightly larger group five to eight people like a council and aging board meeting or a a board of the friends you guys are going to go in the downstairs activity room or one of the upstairs activity rooms those rooms will be too big for you but you can be in that space or you could be in the card and game space that's more open upstairs and then any bigger than that all of a sudden you need a bigger space anyway so I just think it's hopefully sometime soon we're going to show this to yes community and get through that yeah I mean I think this is what I at least from my perspective this is what I was waiting for because it's so hard to discuss it without something to really look at I mean it's exciting to see it you know because it's got um it's got so much I mean it's easy anything but um I I do love this the downstairs area with the um the lounge and um and then the library because we've seen that and it really works very nice and the office space seems to be [Music] good now are you going to put outdoor pickle ball boards and things like that we talked we haven't talked about that yet well that's huge I mean isn't it Katie I mean it's certainly very popular um I think it would depend on where we cited it at because you know we're almost adjacent to the pickle ball Courts at the high school if tennis courts the tennis courts were reigned that's where most people are playing low or you talking about the ones that are of tennis courts right by the high school on Washington Street okay so you'd have to drive to it well we really dep what I think we haven't really decided where I think on this site it would go but it one of the options is very near the tennis courts um and I don't know that's pretty sloped right there right yeah these folks have difficulty walking there comp they're play well that's that's my is yeah so the pickle ball players are going to be the Young or more agile users anyway but then that's a very good question going over to Bishop Road would you want to put those things in and then how do we site and budget for them I think so I mean I think having good outdoor space is you know I don't think any of us disagree we need to consider the outo space yeah what I'd like to see have I'm very happy with this but I have a lot of tidbit things um to me this looks just exactly like Willam I mean it's basically the same thing um come in the same way the cast's in the same the library whatever the the general idea is wilham that we see here reminds me of North and excuse me reminds me of North okay so I mean it's what we would expect from this team which is a good team item um so I'm I'm happy with the the whole General approach here and I understand you can the orientation of the building can can squap and whatever Happ um so rooms can we can move some rooms around just same too I think it's hard to figure out exactly how many square feet we need in a particular room I mean if if we cover most of the activities and have most of the rooms then as John mentioned and be all understand things can change in the future but that room has to be the room that's Ed a lot that big room you know because it's got the biggest space can connect to the patio I like the idea that you kind of threw the patio out there somewhere and I like the idea that we have these exterior places for and you know his room being there and so forth so you have room for shovels or I don't know if you can snow can is it fire rated for that the fuels and stuff okay so all of that's good um we've got a couple of technical really technical issues which might be beyond what where we're at here but yeah probably maybe we'll see I can try real issue with the stairs I don't know how that's going to work with cutting into the sprinkle room and electric room I just don't see how that works over it it goes It goes over it I don't think so if you if you remember wilam the the in wilam actually we did the electrical room complete underneath the stair okay so you got enough elevation there for the to go yeah halfway up the the building this this set of stairs is set for the smaller Riser it's more gradual over here is set to a standard uh 7 in so so you're going yeah you're going up faster well if you put it over the sprinkle room even if it's above the you can't have that concrete slab above the sprinkle so that would this this would be part of that this would be a metal this would be all metal pan I know that and then if you went up sprinkler man to come into that room you can only use a third of the room for his piping these sprinkler lines most of them will end up taking up just one section of that wall it would really be just like a straight shot eight footer and then I did put up up on the second floor because I knew we're going to be there's a this probably is much larger than it should be but we'll be able to bring up um anything from the sprinkler line for all that and also up in the attic we'll have like the makeup air unit that you end up needing for okay so you're good on the basically make this I don't quite understand why you make an exceptional by labeling the small restrooms Ada when the whole building's 88 why yes yes the whole building is you're correct the whole building is ada8 I will have these are more like unisex bathrooms than ada8 so I can relabel that just to say unisex okay everybody okay with that we call unex um all right so we got the same thing going on here these fears are high enough so the stuff that's under it I I had a question but I got the answer by looking at the not office number three has two doors but I guess we want it that way office number three yes because if if say that this person wants whoever coming in let say it's a um veteran right they have somebody come in they make to talk or whatever but person using this office might need to go use copy or desk you want right that up um when we put a fireplace in in general what are we fueling that with how does it run electricity um propane natural gas so we have a vent system then yes so we going to go on through the ceiling out to the side and not straight up I we have done both um I prefer to bring it straight up um just because sticking it out the side of the building you're going to end up getting some kind of residue from whatever is going up so yeah coming straight up and these are things that would kind of get worked out but like I I've started to kind of think of some chap areas that can possibly okay those things yeah it's us the propane propane I forgot okay so Dave's room that's a garage door on the side I see basically here yep y door I'll put a little bunk in here for you which cartoon characters are going on the ceiling G be Mir on the mirors Mr C single do three six do three six do everywhere's three six do so that was my question you say I don't think they are so that's why I'm getting there restroom doors on 36 these are you're talking about egis and walking through the building doors that was SC me but they will be yes they're supposed to be all 36 16 Ines one fo I mean I just tell by looking at it the way yeah because these ones I know I had to measure these ones 39 and 3/4 inch weird so these ones might actually be a little bit bigger um because I have I have to manually put these ones in because they're M you really think I mean to me this is a waste of money because I can walk right like that I just don't think that's worth it personal view I I mean to walk from here to there versus something like that okay tiny for a couple thousand dollars there'll be more the I don't know what everyone else thinks about that but we'll get to that later those things have usually can be changeed so typically these doors get talking about these also 364 it's not sh but I'm assuming that you're gonna the Jan rooms will have mop syns like with typical Jan RS right think we talked about mechanical shafts already so I don't ask all that this is just this again a technical thing M second floor on the this room here we had this shower yeah my preference would be for those fixtures to be on an interior wall not an exterior wall for potential freeze ups 20 years from now yeah because we got well spray foam and Sol oil in this but yeah like the pluming could probably end up getting into this wall this wall I know for the for the shower this shower itself would either be these two would be that r we go so I I I did want to add in there I I did ask the um Deputy Chief of the fire department about what was required for shelters and see if there were any guidelines or regulations that we need to work with the response I got was basically like no it's not that it's not that specific um but that he would look into it and see and that you know at least his initial opinion was that he did feel optimistic about there being additional funding to bring to the table from the project but he is going to look further into it um you know so that may or may not yield anything for us um I don't I Dan and I had a whole email conversation today about that bathroom I I sort of feel like where I'm sitting right now is I think I'd either like to have two showers with the idea that police and fire want to use it as a secondary shelter or I'm not even sure we need that like I'm talking about like just small places to keep the costs in check I'm not sure we need it the shower need the shower yeah I don't know like how much it's gonna stay no money here okay I think it's probably a good idea to have at least one yeah I think yeah I didn't particularly care if this the location of this restroom either kind of in the middle of the room I I don't know there's another didn't we see it like over some place I had it over there but my issue with I ha the idea that this door is opening where people are walking by all the time so that's just again that's you know something I don't know you guys think we need that one uh why do we need it good question what's um so separate rest you know say coup together yeah exactly somebody needs assistance they're not going to want to go to a group toilet oh with everybody else yeah they're want their privacy feel they're in a wheelchair and there maybe there's no other place to put it it just I can look into some a thought about that well I wonder if it might be easier to find another spot for that exterior storage here I would I prefer to keep that near the front yeah because the shovels and stuff whatever you're doing yeah yeah I can look at some possibilities for those two rooms maybe move them around a bit may not be work anywhere else yeah just it it's almost like you're in the public spot when you're going in it's um do me a favor and just label the elevator on the second more that's something I looked at's this room then it's the um yeah the other thing I have again it's just the mechanical issue you're showing on the second floor a shaft coming down here yeah so that will go into the roof it will go into the roof and then out wherever I into the ceiling sorry into this first floor ceiling and then spread out where it needed to go so it'll it'll be above the ceiling of this elevator this will be a drywall sandwi here obviously m above this this is a rated room yeah okay so there's a mechanical elevator there two elevators no this is this is mechanical room for the elevator the elevators have to have an elevator machine room which is showing now um just a quick question we typically are looking at a hydraulic elevator for these buildings that would you guys put okay there was a um there was a server room something is that on the third I did that would be on the third I did not do an attic plan but that would be up on the third floor right off of the um stairs remember that okay we go back to the so I kind of have a problem with the sink out here okay I don't do you guys have any thoughts do we need a sink in the middle of the game room that's fine well I'm not I'm asking these guys I'm not saying I can't remember why they well they used it as a there was not a sink necessarily in the one in um as a a guy that washes his hands all the time I would want to sink so that or if you're drinking you're done with your glass of water what are you going to do with it someplace you can dump the water out before you throw it in the trash can so that the janitor doesn't have to take the bag of water across the floor and mop it up after and but why is the sink in the middle of the room as opposed to over on the other wall where the other two rooms are like that in some of the uh ones where had what was it bliard or something on one side and then it was to clean your hands play pool you all over your hand the cards people did not want to be in the same room yeah uh without being separated from the fillard and stuff I just figured it was so close to these guys over here that yeah then you'd have to go in the rooms actually yeah so anyway we'll leave it there I guess leave that that's Dave operationally is there any particular reason why you want to saving that room or don't I mean no not necessarily I mean especially if we're not putting a bage table there but I sort of I'm looking at that space right now with kind of fuzzy eyes just because I think we're going to go for public input and people are G to hopefully overwhelmingly one way or the other tell us they either do want the billiards table or they don't and then I think we're going to have to mod that room the layout of that room looks like it wor one was wor here maybe right is it here and here two you said it was yeah exactly it would it could fit like right here and over here we move this over here 90 yeah so we keep in the S I guess um and I didn't see any storage in the game yes so storage would be I I that would end up and then some here some there yes okay and we can create I can create some more there was a there's a closet over here yeah in in wilam there bench and that's what we can end up doing is nice obser you like you can watch people or talk to them even if you're not playing the game yeah I'm good thank you other thoughts other I love the sinks and all the activities in storage I was very impressed by that um now in the fitness room they do anything for hand eye coordin much got much no I was just wondering about juggling acoustic Acoustics and sound so like the activity rooms above the library do you ever have issues at any the other fa we we put acoustic paneling uh normally up on up along the M multipurpose room okay up here um there's going to be some sound kind of going through the the glass but you're not going to really hear much I haven't I haven't noticed one i' been there listening presentation haven't noticed much um uh we have bat insulation all the way up to the decks and every interior wall is sound insulated so you don't have any transfer up and over the walls have we all the discussed further the I know that there were some preliminary discussions about how much glass and whether Glass Walls effective or needed or I'm looking at it um we want them I mean there was the the split between wanting good sight lines and everybody being able to feel like it's an open space and Airy and people can see what's going on versus it's too distracting don't have any I there's no glass in the restroom yeah this well when when you look at they're just little peees glass it's just peees but when you look at like the downstairs activity room the way with the bathroom the way that it is currently you don't have that whole wall being glass it's really just I think the Sid lights are really nice and that happens most even upstairs you're only seeing really just a side light into these rooms yeah just because of the way this laid out multi-purpose room down here probably got the biggest piece of glass so how is glass designated on I think it's a valid question oh you get that tiny tin oh yeah you got the tiny one so it's really hard to see so these ones right here see wi here this is all glass line Thin Line like just like where were running into the glass so we do yeah we like those do those frosted bands yeah I saw that because what they had at a couple places was they up they had like they had these on the Windows terrible those were not those were not Catlin buildings thing other on frosted just to give kind yeah you know there there yeah I've walked in there myself yeah you could skip that side like in Wellness room for if you had if you really wanted more privacy yes I definitely would not want to sidelight there because I want to be able to do um massage in there okay no side light and a I'll set up an apartment there go s side light and a uh and a solid door for that one for sure we'll have the cops there happy no Happy Endings happy had to say the lar population of G again the preceding 90 seconds are not going in the minutes um so any other any other committee feedback on on this I mean obviously this like just the draft there's a lot more to be worked in yeah and over the next couple days if you guys come made good progress so Kati if you haven't had a chance to see gron yet they have an indoor pickle ball court in their bit large multi-purpose only one and and the court was um delineated by the floor that is the floor uh how it was laid out in the pattern on the floor oh the pattern of the wood on the floor you the pattern that was necessary that's very cool very I don't I don't know just lay the net and everything right there but I don't know to what extent it is well used or frequently used or whether people and like the sailing even in spite of the fact that it's a high sailing whether or not the sailing is still too low you know those kinds of things yeah and I think that's going to be part of a lot lower than this oh is it only a single story building didn't have that SL that's true yeah this is that was probably a foot sailing I mean I think if we had indoor pickle ball people would definitely use it um you know I just want people to understand that noise is really grading for hours on end but it might be one of the that might be one of the ways that it's used that room is used in the afternoon um but I would just want to set expectations then that no matter how good your players are and they'll have a wide variety of them yeah the walls in that room are going to look like you've played pickle ball in that room if you play pickle ball in that room they're they're going to scuff when every time the ball hits the wall so as long as everyone's well yeah because you're gonna have I mean it's not a yeah it is but it's but still makes a more but I'm not gonna mop that floor every after every lunch but before they play Pickleball so that will be a it will be more like the dust marks like the foot traffic dirt that's going to hit the wall with the ball every time that's what I mean not like it's going to break the drywall or anything um make it make it textured so the ball deflex so then they won't want to play pickle ball in there oh gosh yeah point at the V of you coming in is there a um an overhang yes as people come in yes this will this will be an overhang right here I currently I have a wraparound roof that kind of goes around the whole thing again that's budget specific but uh yeah yeah the walking Track did you see the walk thank you for putting my walking Track in there I love it can people drive up yes so they under the cover yeah I'd love that if that's not a cover that's a different name in to drop off people you know when it's raining or snowing some of them are uh have uh lockers or other things it would be very difficult to try to get out of the car and into the things we don't have some kind of a cover I mean that would be ideal I would love to know you know what that add I mean at some point we're we'll start looking at what does that add to it seems that that's critical does it well here's this is that does that represent the roof but well it's better shown here I guess yeah right now it's right now it's stopping pretty much right at that drop off all right so it's not covering passing over passing over we're going to have have to put bring it up higher if you're going to be trying to get your van in there it's it's going to be pretty high up there and then and then you're also going to looking at probably might have to sprinkler it because of yeah the size of it so there's some there's some because where was it what was the other place we SB the worst one was people were pulled up in Vans getting people out and it was it was a mess it was just a mess and the handicap packing the accessible packing better word was off to the left which was really strange it wasn't directly in front of the building it was really tough the guy was plan to get a van in there s doesn't work it's really not yeah but we went to wilham and the wilham entrance had this basically the same design but it had a long patio there it had it had a deeper patio and that that might get changed once I get the depending on how this supp out drop off be closer yeah I don't think that's important yeah is important no question not so before we move to public input and public input be the last thing that we talk about um in terms of when when and under what format do we want to start taking this out for I mean I think there's 's a lot of ways to approach it one is some smaller feedback groups of current hopeful users up to the town at large in a I mean I think I mean for me I think the first Outreach should be to the senior community I agree um and again similar to what you did in your first public forum last time and again for the record not to exclude anyone not to um have secrets withheld from anyone but merely we are attempting to create a senior center uh for the seniors who are advoc have advocated for that over the last 40 years and I think we owe it to them to um get their initial feedback on what they would like to see in the building is are these two sites the sites that you know just to let them know where we are in that process and get there initial feedback to it and then take that feedback in you know under consideration but also then reach out to the broader community that is I think going to the broad Community before going to the senior community I think sends a message um can you get into the July newsletter um a meeting I don't know if it would be an evening meeting or a meeting after lunch or something like that I could do one after lunch in the July newsletter lucky for me I'm behind I'm getting the July newsletter out this month um then the other place the other two places I would suggest would be to do a Pleasant Street specific they have Wednesday morning coffees but we be to offer to go there and then um and then Autumn rdge has a set social guest in right when when is that that's the first mon second Monday I think it's the second Monday of the month okay so would I talk to you about getting it going to because that would that's basically two weeks from now so yeah holiday they push it back but I will talk to Joanne Martin is the one who does it so I'll ask her okay and then we could advertise it for so is the Sha Park another place where we should um by the time you get use the sen top of the hill yeah nishoba Park the assisted living up there is that nishoba Park so um I think we certainly could but we don't have a lot of users who once they transition to living in Assisted Living they may occasionally come back for a meal or something but typically there are just changes in their health status very much vanw Riders use those Services a lot but as far as coming to the building I mean I'm not opposed to it but I'm not sure I prioritize it as one of my first Outreach um quick question on um you feel comfortable showing people just the floor plans no elevations and an idea what the buildings going to look like I do yeah um but I'm open to I am open to everyone's feedback I think you could um either steal it from the websites but show them North and over show them wilam yeah you know kind of pictures or whatever still you might be able to you know about this is because I mean I have a clear memory what North Handover look like um and it's helping me as I I look at this so I think that might be helpful for them agree and and we're at the point I mean I think that kind of feedback we want is um for programs you know what what what the citizens seniors wants for yeah that's I was going to get at we should have probably some specific questions of what we want to know and not be very open ended otherwise can I ask question ask a question if I go to the meeting where is the indoor driving reach's my dri in all it's a golf simulator my golf simulator it's in the fitness room get the swimming pool that's ridiculous but I want to hit golf balls then you'll have a line for that well that that cost $1 a month how much how much is we we'll get a simulator we'll pop it up in the main room picking up'll be picking up tickets to get in there the of the fitness room cut the fitness room in sep vation we've already gotten some that we've approached we could do more of a public meeting at the library or town hall or some place the high school where we did it last time all right so in terms of questions that we want to ask people for me I really want to ask about the Billiards thing that's I think an important question I'd like to ask about indoor pickle ball um that's a tough one because everyone going to say yes that well but I mean what about outdoor I I think they may say yes to it but I think helping them understand what the tradeoffs are for it that is yes we want billiard for instance we want two billiard Sables but what is that going to do for the remainder of the space and it's well and that's why I think you need to have something visual to look at where you can say they could go here and here and then you'll be limited to four card tables or you can have eight card tables and no like and and you're gonna get a whole spectrum of answers right so it's like I tell my children when they were younger when you make your list for Santa it's not an order form it's a suggestion so it's not an order form so taking input you're going to weigh it you're going to get a lot of varying input and then you know we're going to have to make wellard's question I think part of that answer is will there be access to the billiard's cafe if we you know senors want to um you know want to have bers competitions or something will we be able to access that you know during the day or you know whenever whenever we might want to do that I mean you know because one of my arguments against the Billards is that we do have the Billards Cafe but the question is do we really have the Billards Cafe is that accessible yes it's accessible from the they got an elevator in the back but it's not easy well no you got to you can get in you got to go they Calin foot oh yeah an 8 ramp it's a little difficult to get in but yes you can get you go through the back go through the door it's a couple little to get in but it's accessible the problem with that is it only opens at four it's only open from 4 to 10 right so people the senior center is open from Cooperative effort yeah yeah but but you know could it be I mean would would they be amable to uh opening it at at a different time for a specific event you know maybe weekly you have you know your your weekly Billiards um thing good idea i' like it I'm sure they they be amicable to it but what's the cost what are they going to charge us I mean that's that's I would consider that an operational a future operational ISS issue to work out right but I but I but I it it really uh feeds into this question of whether we want popular right and so I I think that that can be an evolving question is you know I can foresee a circumstance where we are open you know one evening a week and maybe that one evening a week that we're open there was Billiards at the Billiards Hall at four o'clock I don't know I'll I'll I'm I'm going to go into that with a completely open mind as far as what what people say what else besides Billiards and pimple ball are we DS I know wait throwing a we're actually going to do that this summer there's a place nearby here that opened with ax throwings so we're BL it's a lot easier than you think went down in Apex no I was actually in Arizona when did I was trying to think how you'd open up the discussion of the presentation you know to the seniors are we as a committee solid enough to say you know what we've decided on the side of the size of the building we don't we think this fits the needs of the town of air and then go into the programs so someone doesn't say make the building bigger make the building smaller right you know that kind of approach at least we we've de we've decided this is the based on how many meetings that we've had and working with the architect that you you can we can decide this is the building size yes and then within that footprint we're we're trying to get your input so we're not getting the inut on the building size is what I'm trying to get Beyond is that possible yeah I think so I think we need to make it clear that we visited a number of other Vis other senior centers that we've done a lot of research about that and um this is how we came up with this particular design which is a very successful model that we've seen in other towns and that's why you know we have this architect and recommending this but we want to ask them for their input and what kind of activities you know we've thought of different activities whether it be arts and crafts or whether it be some type of sewing and knitting and uh car CS Uh current events Pottery exercise my K Storage storage and that's why we put this together but we need to know you know I there was a big thing in Bren when they were doing it that some of the guys wanted woodworking they were like I need to have woodwork g w you know but if it comes up you know I mean probably the SE I mean the Townson Senior Center had a Woodworking and wood carbon class it was all I mean it was all with they had their storage space like so in the upstair where's upstairs upstairs so you've got this walk-in closet here and the walk-in closet here um they had bins in the equivalent of that space and they would pull them out and then it smelled really good for a couple of hours and like you know the wood flying everywhere and then I would come in with the vacuum cleaner afterwards and then set it up for watercolor they've done to Dave's house to do the same thing so my basement's not clean yet so I think there's a lot of opportunities big deal and I and I think for building size I mean the 14,000 sare Fe give or take is yeah um and and I think we can let them know that based on our population probable population growth and number of seniors that are building the shid would be adequate to meet our needs for many many I just want you guys you do with when you meet up with the public to be prepared you know for that kind of question how did you come up with the like that you know Swag yeah just because that's I think that'll be one of the first things because everyone knows you pay by the square foot right you know the size is gonna the budget will right but I do think we ought to question you know get some kind of a a response sheet back about you know what are your comments about this what kind of activities would you really like to participate in or SE hat offered at the senior center and we could have some of them that they would check off you know but then the others you know that they they want to write down would work did we do that before didn't we do a survey there was very very very big um in 2018 or 2019 when that feasibility started and I did yeah I did draft something but that was when it was a community center so I need to take a look at it and pair it down um but yeah that's not hard just kind of go through and check anything that you would be interested in um you know some people like surveys some people don't but I think if we were to capture what people are verbally saying with what they turn in on the paper I think we can get yeah that would give us an idea and I think having a um refined response to the I thought it was going to be a community center or could we have a community center or what happened to the idea of a community Center and all that someone else will have to graft the response for that I don't we have to and again I struggle that we will have to have a a refined response to that um we were no we weren't SLB charged us with Justice but we want we want a refined response to the community members make so that we're that's you know I think we need to be able to communicate that effectively constructively to them okay right so I think the order is to try to get input from the seniors and um and then Gren it up to the larger Community now reaching seniors I mean you can reach a certain number through your newsletter but you don't contact all SC right so I have no I have names and addresses for everyone over 60 in town I don't do any bulk mailings we certainly could I don't know that I would do a bulk mail at this point in the process but we do take the newsletter each month and pick like a street and physically mail it to that street each month just to get a little bit more exposure um we've print almost 500 newsletters it goes out via email to 275 is people it doesn't mean that those are too exclusive sets of people but um how many seniors are there 2059 as of the 2020 census so that number is larger now that's the official number build towards a meeting sometime in the fall when we solidified this and solidified the site plan and where we mail out the invitation right for them to come and then whatever we do put it on Zoom or whatever so they can watch it and get Buy in because we're going to need those people go to town meeting and Facebook is what where would be post I mean these initial forums here where would be posst so the senior center could advertise in the town of air page could certainly do their Facebook pages for that that piece and then inevit people share that into the air Community pages and and things like that but it would go on the official Town social media yeah but you could get into the action unlimited too if you were having something bad idea okay yeah I play I play a word search every time it comes in it's pretty good actually well we've made phenomenal of progress we all are doing great it's very exciting to think have a place that looks like this I see what the budget comes in and see how everybody go at least with these two areas we don't have to buy land yeah you know which is positive yeah what's the usual there is yeah no she's still oh I just lost the it's up there though do that oh there we go some people say I think like deps on where is there a projection for how much per square foot I 700 to a up there now I remember when I first started at 300 y that was a lot lot less that wasar I can remember when you can put a square on your a square of shingles on your roof for a 100 bucks now it's 500 you should know was there any kind of financial estimate given by the town thought they were willing to pay no it's only Dennis interested it was it's not important find out it's important to find out what we need right I I think you find out what we need we go go through this process we come up with what the estimate is going to be and then we then we go from there yeah so and you know like I said the we we have for this stage that we're in right now we had about 11 or 12 maybe of udag funds left over from the first feasibility study then we have 60,000 of arpa funds that were given to us by the board and then um Allan and I wrote the housing Choice grant for 300,000 um and then the next phase of that housing Choice Grant they are expecting that we will be writing for the next phase and the next phase is up to $3 million so um good and what's the deadline on uh I would have to look and see I want to say those are June deadlines so yeah yeah June of next year yeah but so it would be June of next year yeah so um but but either way the way my understanding is the way that warrant would be written when we went to town meeting would be that you would be asking for the request to borrow up to the full dollar value right anyway because that's what you would need to ask that would be the highest dollar amount the full cost of it and then they will actually borrow less am I conceptual that if we got bunch of different ways there's a bunch of different ways to accomplish it but what I'm saying is you would still you would still request the full the full amount and then you would hope to have other sources come so um I'm sure the town manager could explain that so we're having another meeting y so actually before we go to rescheduling I just want to see think need these versions when you go to do the meeting yes because yeah we don't yeah oh absolutely yeah yeah and I can do that as well um is there any public input before we schedule our next meeting I don't think there's any public BL uh yeah there's I'm trying to raise my hand but I can't do it I'm so sorry sorry um just a few few quick points Katie I believe I heard you say there are 269 years in air based on the latest census based on the 2020 census you know obviously that's that's good because I heard today it was 600 and I knew that could not be um and I'll just say this I have never received any Communications about anything senior despite I've been a senior for 12 something years so I don't know why that's happening but no matter I keep keep on touch in touch so all right well I'll I'll read I'll check the database and make sure your email is in there so that you're at least getting I know way to find you don't you worry um all right all talked a lot about Bishop Road and I didn't hear any discussion about any meetings with Devin the jurisdiction committees um there are two one for the three time and one for air alone but how will any of those issues with water and seore change if jurisdiction returns to air I'm not expecting an answer but I would like at least you to give that some consideration because that's a big deal and that's coming up very very soon it's not going to apply to this project sorry Ken we met with Deon Enterprise well excuse me we mess with mass development was we reported that in the minutes didn't we we met massel and massive element is working on the whatever questions that we had regarding and it's us fish and wildlife so there's no town that U controls the other side of Bishop Road is fishing Wildlife no I understand that salamander and all that other stuff but if jurisdiction of devans returns to air in the in the next 12 years it could have a great impact on how the water and sewer is applied and I just want to throw that out there um thank you the other question I have is the West Main Street contamination is there any possibility that could progress into dis Bishop Road me um yeah that I mean you'd have to test Bishop Road it's pretty distant and I you know when we did review the 217 West Main uh the pcce was making its way toward the mcferson well right that de but that's as far I don't think it had reached there yet but there was like a distant satellite well they called it which was heading that direction so I don't think you'd see it over ficient but it might be a good idea to back check it I know 2017 is what seven eight years ago and and um what do they call pace and Lori ning and her group follow it all the time so I'll ask her what what she knows about that um you mentioned Burnham Road property tonight I believe at least Ken may know but others may not I believe it's been sold because there's a plan to redevelop it and I don't know how that even impacts what happens it won't impact anything it's it's buron Trucking I think is what you what I mentioned right there's a new new owner and he's redeveloping and he's g c yeah yeah and I don't think that has any impact on what happens across the street um as far as the ledge my house sits on the ledge um I would suggest you might want to look at um I think it's 48 and 60 Central AB which are two new developments that were built in the last 2 three years and there was a lot of blasting needed and I just share that so that you all realize because I do support the garton Harvard Road site as well and can't hurt to know what the geolog the what do you call them geolog geologist I can't say the word um experts found there so I just suggest that and then last comment the town owns School P complex it leased it to the regional school committee so hopefully you will all understand and I don't mean that as a deric comment but the town owns the property it will always own the property it's a leased property and hopefully we can move forward with that I just leave that and thank you all for your time you all continue to do a great job I am very most appreciative thank you thank you calling all right so I think that brings us to scheduling our next meeting so if I have the action items if I wrote them down correctly um Dan is going to complete his memo on the utilities um for each site um catlyn architecture is going to uh begin working on placing the building and just playing around with some of the feed back that we gave you um let's see we're going to begin some senior focused community outreach just to get some initial feedback um and we're going to figure out how to get on the school committee's agenda to get permission to dig test pits any other um any other action items I missed I'm not I guess just for clarification we you wanted to double check that in fact we're who what members of the school committee which I yes yes then decide if we're going to that group or the entire scho right yes I kind of rolled that all up into one but yes that's what that is what that is what I wrote down yes I'll follow up with Autumn Ridge okay okay um coming to me um okay so with that in mind with those deliverables in mind um and I will get the senior center one the Pleasant Street and the Autumn Ridge hopefully we I don't think it'll be a big deal to do those all in July um so when do we want to meet again well I guess do we want I guess the school committee would be the hardest thing to kind of in find so next time I I don't well I don't know when they meet so so we're looking at like AUST or late it'll take me a couple weeks to do my stuff I yeah I definitely need time have vacation vacation coming up oh we need we need permission to the permission to dig the holes yeah so do we want wait for permission from the school committee before digging the holes at Bishop Road we could I mean I think we need first the plan showing approximate building location location where we want so once we have that we could do Bishop Road we could I could coordinate with you guys and where to do the tis no that could happen but we're not going to bring it geologist in at this point you're going to just photograph the the the pit Cross of the you know the depth of the yeah we can do it simple test pit log right test okay um so Wednesday I don't know if we're still limited to Wednesdays or if there are other nights that work better for people um but that we could do the 24th of the 31st that's one two three that's either four weeks or five weeks from now I'm good it's good for me okay but um work everyone else anybody else second that second one five weeks so out on the 31st okay so maybe the 24th would be better that would be better for him yeah okay all right um okay do we need to check with the guys that are here um oh the scheding next meeting just tell just I've just been yeah that's a fourth Wednesday so I don't think we're going to get town hall right that'll be Zing the fourth Wednesday's normally clear oh is it okay well so I'll let's schedule everybody goes up they cut all their meetings in half in July and a it's like the middle of the LA 15 to 16 okay they Tuesdays so is only one is the B Health B health is the other one once in a so I mean I don't it makes no difference to me where we meet but I just I I'm just sort of there's technological issues here but then there's space issues at Town Hall so I'm I don't think it really matters either right so probably 6 PM probably yeah 6 p.m seemed to work for everybody and then you'll check in now yeah so 6m on the 24th yep have a motion to adjourn motion to adj Second all in favor says I thank you everyone