okay everybody Mr Walter here Mr Leonard I'm here Mr vilus present Mr first here Mr D Martino yes chairwoman Guta I'm here adequate notice of this meeting of the Bedminster Township luse Board was filed with the Township Clerk sent to the Bernardsville news and The Courier News and to all subscribers and posted to the Township Municipal Building one Miller Lane Bedminster New Jersey on January 12th 2024 please stand for the flex flag the United States to the indivisible for all I'll open it up to the public if anyone has anything they'd like to discuss or comments uh that is not on the agenda open it up to to the public I think we have a few people we do have a few people online so if anyone is online and you have something to say that is not about the application for tonight you can unmute yourself you can raise your hand virtually if you're on your phone you can use star n um or you can just begin to speak we'll give you a second to let us know if you have anything to discuss that's not on the agenda I do not see anyone okay then we will close it to the public and we can go right to our application DL Associates [Laughter] Jonathan CL cler hearing on behalf of the applicant DNL Associates I'm been shating for the lawyer that was handling the PC surgeon in Colorado so okay um I would uh like to offer our first witness um L uh lee wongo to give us some background on the property that he owns and what he's how he got here today okay so Mr Longo please raise your right hand okay you swear firm tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God do and please state your name spell your last name and give us at least a business address okay I'm Lee LEL last name l n g e l l and which you want know an address 15 title Avenue thank address of the building you may be seated and speak into the mic okay um just to give you a little background or whatever with this whole thing because some new paces and things in town in 1980 my sister and brother-in-law and my wife and I bought Bedminster Flores and we were tenants of the stries um who owned the whole Corner the whole piece of property and then in 1985 the stes want subdivided the property because they wanted to sell it um and we proceeded it went really pretty well and we proceeded to buy the back half and but it ended up to create enough parking and so forth there were some easements that were created um on the lot 1101 the front lot um and shared parking that kind of thing access and so forth and the sign um then in 1990 my sister unfortunately died her sleep at 37 so we ended up buying my brother-in-law out so we were 50/50 between my wife and I both in the holding company that DNL Associates as well as B Minister Flores um and 40 40 later years later we're here 43 years later we had this horrendous fire during the night that we didn't know we we were some of us were talking about it um went very quickly it was an old building why it went the way it went I don't know but anyway um so we right away decided no we want to rebuild we want to put something really nice there that will go with the community and do an apartment for the village you know for downtown walking distance to a lot of things in the is on the second floor because we didn't have that before and understanding the The Village uh neighborhood we were able to do that so that's what's in this plans that you have seen um and that's where why we're at this point everything unfortunately damaged two buildings on either side the front one more than the back one but um everybody's pretty much rebuilt except for us yet took a while to get the the demo per permit and that stuff done and we still have some more demo to do once we get past this stage as far as that goes um that's pretty much the situation so if anybody had any questions to me about those kind of things I can ask you that the board have any questions for no no okay then I can ask it the public if they have any questions for this uh witness so once again same scenario you can either raise your hand you can uh stand up if you're here if you have a question of the witness and what he just testified about you can unmute yourself or if anybody's here in the audience y yep no seeing no one oh yeah you come up from yes please you can stay where you are we can just move the okay yeah now is the time of this witness of what he just said yeah after each witness uh we'll open it for questions of the witness and then after the applicant has done there will be an opportunity to testify so you can if you'd like to give statements that's later when the applicant has finished their presentation yes my name is freeer s please raise your right hand do you swear firmly tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth shall help you God I do and please spell your last name f r i e b e r I guess you better spell your first name cuz I don't know how to spell it s s a g r i I think that I think the last one is easier yeah okay yes you have a question yes I do so um I own the building next to Le building the the the White House in front of it it's 325 Main Street okay it's an interior design store so because of the proximity of the um um floor Forest my building also went up in flames and from the front it looks like nothing happened but the entire building burned down so the second and third floor so um I just wanted to know how often are you're going to be using the um the eastmen to access their home because it's really right next to my building and that my main concern is that all of a sudden before what they park in the front now it's be a resident in which there's just going to be in and out in and out and it's so close to to the back of my building so that is my main concern since that's be on my property On's property front the front L Just For What right and we're going be oh good behind behind the dumpster is that where your customers going to be where the dumpster to be right right right but that is that building right that's my main concern that I so par in spaces right next to the build uh that is um the clients are going to be walk in can you speak closer to the mic I'm sorry I'm never G get any of excuse me Madam chairman this is this is Paul FR I just want to butt in here for a second because it sounds like these questions are more appropriately directed at the engineer after he outlines the site plan because there are questions as to how these these are questions directly on how the site is laid out and we haven't had that testimony or exhibit yet yeah I think you'll get more information flight of course sure okay sh absolutely you're you're good to go do you swear from the the truth the whole truth and nothing but the TR you God and speaking into the mic please state your name and spell your last name and give us an address right well good evening everyone my name is Ed O'Brien I'm an architect uh my office is located at 64 Old Turnpike Road in Oldwick New Jersey mran could you outline for the board educational yes uh I graduated from Clemson University in 1974 from uh what is now called the New Jersey Institute of Technology in 1978 that's two degrees in architecture with different Miners and then I uh got my license in 1980 one year after I married my wife and now 44 years later and uh I can say I probably have testified in front of this board but I don't remember when I I think he's probably correct and I'm going to just SP for the board that the that Mr O'Brien is qualified as a expert in architecture and please go ahead gentlemen describe structure and this building Asar to I will try to do that uh the prior building was a a collage of several small structures that were pieced together to form Bedminster Florest uh with all that removed uh we are attempting to put one building back to replace all those smaller buildings in into something that will best conform to the site so the building the long side of the building faces South and North the short sides West and East toddle Avenue um so the drawing that's up there now the lower of the two uh that's the south facing part of the building uh it's one story across for the Florest which is about 2500 square ft and then above that is about 12 or so about 12200 square feet for an apartment uh we're also contemplating a basement that will be used for storage and I I I I was asked by the mayor and tobery to help set up what we all call the historic preservation commission the guidelines for historic preservation so I did that volunteer of course and uh learned a lot by reading through the federal standards for historic preservation so in a village some buildings are called pivotal some buildings are called contributing and non-contributing so I would view this building as a contributing structure it's not going to try to be the center of attention it's going to have what you might call a rural character with barn sidings standing seam roofs double hung windows and yet at the same time we're also attempting to have it say this is a florist so there's a little more glass a few skylights and Dormers and things that would amplify the intent of the client to have a excellent place to set up their their plants flowers and things of that nature so we've been to the historic preservation group and we got a a tentative approval for the size and shape of the building and uh we're still trying to finalize what you would call the the details but it will not change radically from what you're looking at now you're still trying to finalize what I'm sorry some of the finished details on the building um where would you put uh a little bit of stone around the bottom where you might think some people would destroy the siding where would you put the skylights will You' put them on the south side that kind of thing that's fine you waiting for me Steve's answer your question HPC approval was given they just asked that they come back with the materials and things of that nature to show them Mr yes there will be a mechanical electrical engineer who will design all the electrical systems uh that would normally include Lighting in the parking lots and and things of that nature specific to a commercial building you have to have lighting that in the event uh an alarm goes off there's a power failure there'd be an emergency light at every exit and what we've done with the building is we have put little roofs overhangs if you will at all the doors so when that emergency light kicks in it's going to be like a recess type of light so the light will come straight down in all probability too if there's a a delivery coming early or late in the day there probably would be a light near the delivery door I don't think that's going to turn into something out out of control but um and then there will probably be lighting under that little porch roof across the front with a timer of course that would have settings that the town could live with isn't the lighting um mostly code is what you're talking about by you know door exits that is correct another other words the building department will be looking for that when the plans are in final review have anything further oh I did have a question for Mr BR that was why is it uh 2500 square feet on the first floor but only 1,200 ft on the second floor if you could just just explain what's under the the lower roof compared to the higher roof all right um looking at that South elevation starting all the way on your left that is a two-story building uh the apartment will be there and the uh florist workshop and and back back room activities will be directly below the building closer to Tuttle Avenue is about four or five feet lower in overall height but once you're inside it's going to be a volumous room so it's going to have a plate height of perhaps 12 feet and it will go up as a barn would with Timbers and the attempt there would be to uh have a better sense of display for larger plants or hanging plants or or whatever else is on the uh list of materials oh it's a the one story Flores that section is a one floor floor floor section with a cathedral ceiling so to speak or yeah I would say it will have a cathedral ceiling with exposed rafters a barn likee frame we we'll go in there like a timber frame type of thing yes a timber frame type of thing but no mezzanine or loft or space none of the above okay as I understand it the square footage is to say say approximately what the prior square footage of the buildings was is that right I'm going to let the engineer answer that one because I never carefully studied what the old building was by the time I got there the building was gone okay anybody else how does the um where's the entrance to the apartment entrance and re all right we we're we're in luck the uh the upper right hand corner drawing is the west side of the building directly at the other end from the Tuttle Avenue side and what you see on the lower level all right there's Tuttle Avenue with the correct that Tuttle Avenue is you see that now on the upper leftand corner so if we go back to the previous slide they don't have any slides [Laughter] anymore dating myself here is was it the one with the two doors one of those doors apartment and you go up the stairs there correct the door on the left gets you upstairs the door on the right gets you into the place where the delivery storage drop off area is look like and then the little call it pent roof travels across the top of both of them and that's where the recess lighting will be for the Emergency uh Exit Plan now if you were to do a basement in this building I guess the door to that would be under that stair is that what you're thinking correct um we would like to build a basement speaking on behalf of my clients um part of the condition of putting in a basement because it is what you would call a windowless story is that we would have to put in an automatic fire suppression system uh we would not have anyone down there I mean it they go down take something bring it up take something down but no one's going to be working down there so uh that is still plan a to use that for bulk storage and the sprinkler system is is a deal breaker has to be there it's required yeah it is so would it be under the entire building or just a portion of it I think the economy of effort tells us that we're going to dig this down to one level we're going to put in a pre-cast concrete foundation and then wood frame the first floor and we're out of the ground as efficiently as we can and that's where this whole thing would only happen if we knew for a fact that we were going to have that fire safety sprinkler down there if we can't get the water there or the some other condition prevails then we would not be doing the building the way it's proposed the alternative I suppose is to sheetrock the heck out of it and limit the square footage but my clients have already lost one building in a fire so we're thinking that we're not going to let that happen here yeah think yeah well you can't do it you would go on slab then and rather than basement well we would consider that yes I mean it's it's a very good question but there's really a lot of time to be spent and and and potentially wasted if we don't get the approval it doesn't matter if it's a slab or a basement so yeah we're going to work through this to be legal and complete in all things it's it's not a conditional thing if we get the basement it will be according to the code yeah right I understand that I'm just saying if you if you get it you would build it on slab then a slab makes more sense yes is is there is there a limit on the Water Company's ability to provide use fish and water is that why well the engineer will be talking about water getting to the site we we've looked into it I'm not sure where where we are tonight but we've been talking about this uh last couple months okay um I guess this is where maybe the engineer will go over that is there some sort of a meter pit or something that is going to be an issue we had some unusual meter pit issues in Bedminster recently is this is that part of this issue of adequacy of order like where the meters are and whether they're accessible by well man man usually uh the sprinkler company will Design the system uh they're going to be the ones working with an insurance company to ensure the building after the fact and there's always going to be a a point where the water comes into the building and then there's a massive amount of piping and valves and and things of that nature which the fire company would say well we want it on the first floor or we don't care where you put it but we're anticipating that there would be a whole Bank of plumbing hardware associated with this and I don't think anybody wants all that on the front of the building no we don't want it we that's all well you could ask for it but it we wouldn't usually want it in a structure in the front yard because that would be a variance and you're not I don't think you're asking for that so but my memory is that that's one of the problems with the water company when they want a meter pit they they want access to it Tom Tom just let me weigh in for one second on that issue this is Paul ferero again I know you can't see me I just have very weak Wi-Fi and I do apologize for not being there um the the issue relative to this is whether or not a hot box will be required the hot box is a large above ground stainless steel enclosure that New Jersey American Water requires for a lot of their equipment if this structure is built with a basement given the proximity of the road it'll be similar to the elite properties site a little further west on lamington road where a hot box was not required because it's the road and all their equipment can be inside the building in this case in a basement which would really be the ideal situation so I would not anticipate a hot box being required here but if there were then I think that'd be something we'd have to revisit with the board thank you Paul and and and I going back to my letter um Ed first thank you for addressing the comment relative to the lighting and my concern was that there not be lighting on the building uh that creates glare off site because everything is recessed in these small roof overhangs I think that addresses my concern as long as we have lenses that are flush with the sopit um that would be on the entry doors underneath the porch area as well as the overhang over the the delivery area I would suspect is that right Ed geez Paul I wish I'd known you'd been listening in I would have told a few more jokes well and I was going to remind the board that if you can't remember you you you testified for the Trump National Golf Course that maybe we should go back and redo your credentials yeah yeah yeah I I remember that one now yeah I remembered maybe you were just trying to forget that one ed hold that gu you Ed well thank you very much so what this this is going to be huge it's gonna be big league all right and we're not g to try to We're not gonna try to sneak a graveyard in here either you must that's not gonna happen yeah really that Ed because because of that testimony you provided about the those lights um by architectural issues are addressed from my report it's up to you however you want to present your case I I think that that would be best okay I just want to make sure the board has any more questions for the architect no no and we'll open it up to the public IE name um if you could just un share this scen go back but they're going to use that I think yeah so I just need to get to that so if there's anyone who's online you can either again raise your hand unmute yourself um or I put this mic and chair over here if you're in the audience and you have a comment you might as well come over here because we need to hear you on mic um but any of those OB probably be the best since I have a small view the street you see anyone J do not see anyone no one to my t Okay okay so question of the last she right over here this way you don't have to she can speak it to M this is a question for the architect yes okay um so the lighting is going to be uh the building is going to be treated like a like a um resid itial building or a commercial building and when it comes to the lighting because it is low low um um voltage I guess so how are they going to advertise is it going to be a sign or is it going to be up on my loan I just I would say that like any other business it's going to have regular hours of operation and if it happens to be winter and it's dark at 4:00 and they're open until 6 then I would suggest that as you drive by you will see the lights are on inside now the board and the mechanical engineer and everyone and the civil engineer will be describing the exterior lighting you know people uh this I wouldn't immediately drive up to this thing and assume it's a house I'd say it's a commercial building with a little sensitivity towards wood framing and the type of it we Al all say you know we should have more of them okay I we're not there yet we're not there yet no are you proposing a sign or is the civil engineer gonna talk civil engineer on that one okay anybody else from the public okay not seeing anybody we'll close it to the public well thank you everyone thank you Mr Dexter please raise your right hand you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I and please state your name and spell your last name and give us an address k dyra d y k St 21 Bowling Green Parkway Jefferson thank you Mr dyra could you share with more your educational credentials and your Li yes I'm a degreed engineer from Ruckers and uh I've been I have a New Jersey licensed professional engineering license professional planning and land surveying I've been practicing in the field of site plan and uh subdivision engineering for uh more than 30 years and has have testified before uh many boards throughout uh Northern New Jersey we'll just confirm for the record that the board recognized and accept Kenneth D's qualifications as a professional engineer professional planner and licensed land surveyor please go ahead gentlemen Mr at a higher level could you lay out what you needed to do to uh lay this paral out and lat a b unique history and configuration and trying to develop it suit the basic structure that was puted out uh yes I yes I can um I'll start with the uh colored exhibit uh that's on the display this is uh a uh basically just a color colorized version of the site layout plan that was submitted as part of the package there no no changes other than coloring let's call that A1 and I I guess actually this is a board here that's a colored rendering of the architecture which I think we should make an exhibit because it was sort of referenced by ped that'll be that board and it's both both sides will be A1 that's uh Ed O'Brien's colored renderings and the second will be this colored rendering Mr Dy but you can keep looking at it on screen nice to see that's fine thank you yeah can we see those to bring them there thanks thank you all right so I'll use exhibit 82 to uh describe the project uh that's the uh the color sight layouted plan for the project um this on this exhibit on the right side of the exhibit is uh is Route 202 and on the top of the exhibit is a Tuttle Avenue uh the property is known as 15 Tuttle Avenue and uh it's a 0.273 acre lot located in the uh Village neighborhood Zone BN uh which requires a 0.5 acre minimum lot size the lot's approximately 87 ft wide along title Avenue and uh about 135 ft in depth uh it we have a shared uh parking easement that runs down the common property line with the adjacent lot uh 11.01 which is the corner lot and uh this this lot also has a one dedicated parking space on 11.01 based on the uh the deed um in addition to that it has a rights to uh 52% of the free pre- standing sign that's at the corner of Tunnel Avenue and uh Route 202 that sign is located on adjacent lot 11.01 and uh that sign the bottom part of that sign does have the uh is the sign for the Bedminster florist so if you or the top rather I'm sorry the top uh the site site was previously developed with a floor building greenhous parking and other Pro improvements um uh Tuttle Avenue has a narrow uh uh RightWay width uh so8 and a half ft will be dedicated to widen the RightWay on our side across lot 11.02 uh that reduces the lot area but to uh 0.255 Acres so 747 square feet will be dedicated to Bedminster for RightWay purposes uh reducing the lot size down to uh 11,127 Square ft uh the site has the SES are relatively level lot uh front to back uh and it and it was for formerly developed destroyed with the fire uh however there are the remains of the foundations uh the parking and various other improvements the back Greenhouse is partially still there uh site is served by uh sewer and water um and unfortunately there's no gas service currently in Tunnel Avenue but the applicant is attempting to get gas service to the building from pscg uh I know the water main was discussed before the uh it was confirmed that the water main in tutle Avenue is a is an 8 inch Main and I think it has a pretty decent pressure per Paul could confirm that um so the basically the proposal is to uh construct a uh new two-story building with a footprint of 86x 30 feet uh that's for the building itself it also has the six foot porched on the uh I'll call the southernly side of the building facing lot 11.01 uh so the first the and there's partial second floor 48 by 30 so you have uh a total square footage of 4,20 square fet in floor area gross floor area uh there's also a partial basement uh proposed on the architectural plans uh built the height of the building calculates 31.9 9 ft which is conforming um set back from uh the new Tunnel Avenue right away will be 25.9 feet um where 30 feet is required but I point out that the uh the former building was closer because it was meas it was uh measured to the original right away so the with the 8 and a half fet left this building is actually back further by 8.4 feet from the former building so we're actually set back further compared to the original development um the sidey yard setback with this building is proposed at 15 feet which is the requirement when you but a uh the residential Zone and the rear yard is also required to be 15 feet uh this building is set to meet both those criteria 15 foot side and 15 foot rear uh parking we is now proposed to use the the shared uh 24 foot wide uh access easement that'll be a that that will be paved and uh we have 10 spaces proposed on that side facing the building one additional space that's part of this project on the uh located on lot 1101 as dedicated and then on the north side of the building there are uh uh two spaces proposed in tandem for the apartment so the apartment requires the two spaces wait where I'm sorry where were the two spaces the two spaces are on the north side of the building if you see where my cursor is right there and then they have there's a turning area so they can back out not have to back out on Tuttle Avenue oh so they can be uh front to back they they're they're tandem for the two spaces yeah okay so real quick so then there's a little kind of to jockey the cars in and out they got a little backup area there I guess is that that's right yeah we don't we didn't want them backing out into pedal Paul would have mentioned something if I didn't that's right so look I'll talk next about the lot coverage um this lot was substantially covered uh well before I do that I'm going to go back to the original building size I I know the architect was asked how large was the original building uh we reviewed the old records and the original building was uh the buildings added up to just over 4,000 square ft in floor area so the uh so the new building is is basically the same size just a different configuration uh and lot coverage uh which for which we need a variance we we lost lost that area right away that 174 Square ft so our lot's actually smaller but uh we're proposing uh the plan shows a 75% impervious coverage where uh which is a substantial change from the ordinance because the but that was mostly pre-existing we're only really adding about 175 square feet of new coverage with this development um one thing I want to add that since that wasn't on the plan and I'm including that in this calculation is uh there will be AC units that weren't counted and uh there's there's also the possibility that we'll have a uh future generator located on the uh on the I call it the westle side of the building adjacent to the the other commercial property so you basically going up 175 square feet in impervious coverage um and technically the impervious coverage per the chart is goes from 70% to 76% but it's actually a much smaller increase than that only 175 square ft if you can understand because we lost lost land due to the RightWay dedication uh proposing the generator well the air conditioning units are are are going to be will be located on the north side of the building uh Jason yeah but they'll they're on that side of the building we will we are going to propose a uh a six- foot uh solid vinyl vents um for part of the property line that'll that'll then match up the neighboring property already has a fence so we don't want to extend have a double fence so we're going to stop at their fence they have a fence at a higher elevation that's 4ot vinyl so the top of the two fences will be a very similar elevation and the property uh behind has a six foot Stockade Fence that's the there's another residential home in adjacent so they have a six foot Stockade Fence buffering them from this property and from the uh or the adjacent commercial property to the west of uh lot 11.02 so the fence will continue all the way you know on the North side the whole L of the property it goes from uh from basically the right new RightWay line to uh I guess I'll call the back right where this cursor is at the back of that residential house where their fence starts oh okay so there will be a fence Yeah so basically you have they're not connected fences but they're it's continuous down that whole side okay so where can you point out where you think the generator and the AC the a AC would be uh on the uh north side of the building in this area along the adjacent to the building and the generator would be located uh in the in the in the corner back here behind the building if if they prop if they elect to install a generator I just want it on the record so they don't have to come back if they because that's happened more time than once especially when the impervious coverage is uh is calculated exactly and uh so that's why I I'm changing our request we asked for 75% impervious uh I'm increasing at the 76% for the relief uh there's a dumpster enclosure proposed uh at the end of the common driveway that's uh that's located where the poter is now that's I'll call it the the most souly corner of the property in the West in the re and uh uh Paul ferero made a comment about the he wanted to see something more durable so we're willing to build that with a concrete block and then maybe a stucko on the outside that would be a similar color to the building and then metal uh metal gates in front uh that that D that uh there were comments about that location it's an technically accessory structure so it is located 4 feet from the rear line where 10 feet is required and it's it's right on the on the common property line so it's zero to the sideline however it is within our easement area so those are technically two uh two two variances also and the planner pointed that out uh Landscaping uh there was a landscape plan that was submitted um includes two shade trees uh 15 Evergreens and 23 shrubs and I already discussed the the buffering sixo High solid vinyl fence along the Westerly lot line right so that's basically the engineering I'm going to just uh I'll continue right into this uh this like the variance testimony um quick question just water management do you have to now that it's a new build pull I don't know if there's any water management issues that they have to be worried about now or they do not the ordinance specifies if you're increasing the impervious by more than a th000 square feet then you need to to uh provide storm waterer management under major development standards that's not the case here so they don't have to do any storm water management um so this there's a floor area ratio uh variance which is technically a d variance um although it's it's it's a d because of intensity not because of the use that the use of the retail and the apartment are allowed in in this Zone and uh and your master plan actually encourages uh that use those uses um so the the VN Zone which this property is in used to have a uh requirement of 0.35 floor area ratio um that was changed uh after this property was developed and the current ratio was only 0.17 um so the proposal now is a floor area ratio of 0.37 so uh and the reason it's over the the original 0.35 is because we've lost that 174 square square feet of land area for the rightaway dedication so really there there's really no intensity or increase in use the uh FL air ratios are essentially the same to what was there before uh you have a uh a new very attractive building in my opinion being constructed on the property uh and the development is consistent with the uh development on the corner lot lot 11.01 where uh they have a once first floor is commercial and they have a second floor apartment uh and across straight at the corner there's also a building with multiple apartments in it and commercial on the first floor that's a cross uh Tuttle is the sinus of structure better in terms of distance with lot 01 in Rel way of how you situated in on yes yeah this building is actually further away from uh well actually it's better positioned on the lot compared to the original building it meets it's actually further back from the street than the original structures and further from the the residential home to the north and in and the positioning allows for the uh the parking to conform to the ordinance requirement for this this size building whereas in the previously we didn't have enough parking on this property um I mean the site is uh in my opinion very well suited for this use uh it it's basically just a Redevelopment what was there before the only difference is we were adding the the apartment which is uh it's beneficial apartments in this uh Bedminster Village area are encouraged it's a walkable area uh as stated in your master plan um so in my opinion this whole proposal promotes the general welfare um it's an appropriate lo location for this type of use the commercial and residential and uh it improves the the visual environment it's a very attractive uh building um improves improves the dis the visual environment to compared to the prior uh development speaking of visual can you go over the lighting PL real quick oh sure um yeah the lighting plan uh actually I have a uh cut sheet so this is a decorative fixture that set it a height of I believe 15 feet called the Cyclone you can see it on the screen it's uh you know decorative fixture should fit nicely in on the site there's two of these proposed on the south side of the building to light the parking spaces now so that's not down that's outward as well correct well no that's the fixtures up they're LED and they're directed downward so the the fixt yeah it has the appearance of a of a your old streetscape lighting but it uh but the light the lighting does not is shielded so it's up in there it just shoots yeah there there is a there's a lighting and Landscape plan in the set which is here let yeah it's in combination landscape yeah lighting and Landscaping it just shows the two fixtures uh one located near Tuttle and then the second like two-thirds of the way back down the buildings those are the two fixtures and those are their uh their patterns so those are the going to be the only two pole mounted lighting that's correct and everything else is going to be then as uh I think Paul was mentioning the recess underneath the overhang in the front that's right okay and then how about around how about the north side and the West Side what's going on over there is that also what was explained earlier by the architect that on the west side is going to be underneath that overhang that sticks out yeah the only uh we didn't propose lighting for the residential driveway there's a walkway and then there their their doorway would have lighting but that that would be it so there' be no lighting from when they parked the car all the way around to the door they'd Park in Tandem and then they have a a space there uh you know we could put some balled lighting along the walkway which might not be a bad idea for safety reasons something low down is there any outdoor storage contemplated no or outdoor sales of any kind uh if there you know that I don't know the answer to but you know sometimes with a porch you know something I could imagine something could be out there but I just wondered what the overhang area was formed we'll call the C back up to respond to that thank you uh what about storage to the apartment would that be provided in the basement for them storage for the park if there's anything provided in Bas oh there'll be a set of pull downstairs and there p department does that comply with our code I mean do you know have you looked at it have you no I'm not the architect but the apartment is 1440 square feet so it has a substantial space and uh they need to storage they they have the room an apartment that size but I don't think any space has been planned or dedicated for the apartment in the basement at this point I think our ordinance may call for that certain amount of storage space okay well we'll have to comply if there okay anybody else from the board for the engineer open it up Janine you have question Madame chairman before we go to the general public questions if I could just um say say one thing or make make one additional comment um one of the issues that I raised in my letter was that the township is going to be redoing tutle Avenue um and we would need any of this work involving the connection of utilities done before that road work is done it's anticipated that the contract for that work will be awarded sometime um early next year so that's the kind of time frame we're talking about it's just a matter of coordination other than that I am not sure there's anything else in my letter that requires uh further discussion I will note that if there were Ballard installed on the north side of the building for pedestrian access probably only one might be needed um maybe two and they can should also have the same types of concealed sources as the rest of the lighting on the site and I would I would note that because the access and the parking for the residential use is on the north side of the building uh that's where all the 247 potential access and action on the site would occur and as has been stated there's going to be a solid fence and Landscaping along there and that's all I had Madam chair could I make a brief comment yes sure uh I heard the testimony and I think that the uh the Board needs to recognize that while the variances indicate some significant departures from the ordinance standards the pre-existing conditions very much mimic the scope and scale of what's being proposed now except that what's proposed now is a much more orderly organized and self-sufficient kind of a design there is some slight increase in the coverages or the F that relates to the decrease in the size of the lot that might in part account for some of that minor increase that's proposed but it's very minor so if the board were evaluating a new application on this lot a 50% increase over what's permitted would seem outrageous probably in these circumstances the reorganization of this site the way is proposed seems to make a lot of sense to me I just wanted to point that out thanks thank you Frank okay um yes um I don't know uh the um how en easement is supposed to be used I I always understood the enement is for cars to go in and out instead but the way it looks now it looks like it's actually it's going to be transformed into a regular Street behind behind uh my building uh with all of the parking spots right there so um I just um and also is there a way that the dumpster can be put farther into the back of the building because now it's h you see the proximity of my building right there the brown one and then the um the truck is going to come directly into the back and then I have to also put my dumpster somewhere in there so uh wanted to see if you uh the dumpster can be located to where are the dump dumpsters where the dumpsters now uh well my my dumpster burned out uh so I can show you a picture dumpster burned out yes I can show you a picture what the location that we used to be yes well it's gonna be now yeah where's it going to be now where are the dumpsters on the proposed site going to be is that on that West Side there that lot 11.02 it's on the plan right proposed right at the end D yeah we need line it up so the truck can get right head to it and then get back out right so that is their dumpster yeah and where's your dumpster right I don't have a dumpster you don't you don't have a dumpster no but where do you want to propose it uh right right there so they could right so they could put it to the left and then I can put my so half half and half so it can be moved is that dumpster on the east or is it on the applicant's property no that's on the applicant's property oh that's that's entirely a lot lot 11.01 yes right but U now there's a problem because since they own the lot next to it my dumpster has to come where so um I'll show you I'll show your picture if you could point to where you where your dumpster where you would like to put your dumpster right okay going to the screen the screen yes okay so they are proposing their dumpster here right I'm proposing to put my dumpster here that's that way it will be easier for the truck to come in collect the garbage and then take their as well so I think this makes sense yeah the only issue is that is the one space in the deed that's dedicated to lot 11.01 right but see all the spaces that they are they are Crea that is just and also I wanted to show you the location where my well now is not the time to testify okay but it will be soon you have a question you need to ask this question to the engineer oh you will be allowed to testify after this they ask me what the no I know okay right I just I just spoke with the the applicant we'd be prepared to move our dedicated parking space over further onto her property so she can put her dumpster dumpster if you will next to ours when she gets the approval build because it's an accessory structure she's get a that but that's a it's it's part of the isn't if that only if she builds a concrete if she just puts a dumpster there she doesn't have to come here correct I I George I think the the issue is we'd have to look at the subdivision and site plan that originally created these two Parcels to see where the dumpster for that building is technically just placing the dumpster in the parking lot is is a use that would require site plan approval well that property's not before us in any event anyway that's correct well it is for us in the respect that the easement for the access and the easement for the parking space are on that lot 11 111 and uh interestingly enough the easan extend to the end of the property line Tom Tom could you explain that again okay so if you look carefully on the site plan lot 11.01 is technically part at least the easan area on lot 1101 is technically and the space parking space are technically part of this site plan application and interestingly enough the easement seems to go to the edge of the property line 15 feet to the West I'm sorry to the east I guess of the dumpster one thing I'm thinking about is why not a common dumpster pad I don't see a need for two dumpster pads and there is an easan there's an easan 15 ft wide in the rear corner of lot 11.01 or access which is a g garbage truck is access so well you you need to get permission from your neighbor to do that so so that's that's a that's an option to make the dumpster pad straddle the lot line or make it a little bigger 10 feet bigger I don't know but that but they're the ones building it would be medable to discussing with her the possibility of making a dumpster P that's big enough for D both yeah that would make a lot of sense I mean the two prop you know they're not huge buildings I think that one dumpster pad with a dumpster and a recycling dumpster would be enough with the proper pickups and then then you only have one and you might even be able to keep the parking space where it is yeah I mean the deal if the deal was just to leave everything where it is and just share the dumpster then it's in the at least part of it in the Ean area already yeah could I have the followup question are any of the parking spaces in the common driveway e appears to me that no and there is a recorded easement ma'am uh we the board does not have jurisdiction over uh the real property rights of people in easements or in P simple or other forms of ownership but there is a record easement the survey shows it um you are you both are subject to the easements that are of record and yes it can be made into a driveway that is two-way driveway it's not a road it's a driveway so so legally she wouldn't have to have her own dumpster not really yeah she doesn't even have a dumpster now no I know I'm I'm beginning to think you don't even need a dumpster but if well it's been a lot of years but if you would like to share a dumpster pad with your neighbor that's something you'll have to work out yourselves I think it sounds like there's a willingness to talk about that and I think that could be something that Township engineer reviews as part of the conditional review of any details of the site plan Tom would that require a modification to the driveway easement I don't they common dumpster I'm I'm wondering if you could fit it in the existing dumpster area I just yeah it's it's fairly fairly large and while these two uses made didn't generate garbage and recycling at times I don't think it's going to be frankly all that much to yeah hey Paul would you be willing to if if the the arrangements could be made we could shift this whole dumpster pad over granted there's a couple trees there would have to be be removed but then it could kind of split the lot line be right on the right in the easement and then if it's shared and then we could have the other parking space uh on lot 11.01 at the end that that that makes a heck of a lot of sense to to do to do it that way that way you have a dumpster pad that straddles the line and that additional spot that's required for the uh for the parking count gets back on the subject properties lot oh I don't think they mean that Paul do they no I think that that's that did I not hear you right I thought you were Shifting the the dumpster pad to the South so that parking stall that's on 5.01 can be moved to 5.02 problem is that that parking space is a deed right oh I I understand it's a deed right but the deed right doesn't necessarily need to be executed nor would you be giving it up in my opinion uh it's just that you would have all the parking on your spot but again that's I'm going legal places that I probably shouldn't well obviously the plan was submitted this way and we we don't know how those arrangements will turn out um so you know we are seeking approval for the plan as submitted but we're willing to coordinate consider that yeah and and just have it in the record so that we don't have to come back to the board if we do move it and make make the deal yeah I think that's something that could be a condition that the township engineer could review um you know it does seem like you don't need two different dumpster pads that's for sure looks like I mean these properties were developed once as one property and then subdivided so their their relationship to one another has continued and is not going away that's the history of this property and that's happens so okay as long as we can work it out legally yeah and I think I think with the cooperation of the neighbor and the applicant I think they can find a way to make a a Common Parking a common dumpster pad I never never had a comment dster Pat sounds interesting so you know get out much I get out too much for night meetings [Laughter] could we just if we have a common dumpster pad would we still want to have two separate enclosures with separate Gates so that there isn't one giant opening at some point let's let Paul decide that I think yeah let's see how it lays out that would that would make sense but you know let's see what kind of agreement can be reached and then we can work through the details yeah you can do that okay great thanks okay and anything more any other questions for the engineer um yes I was back to the mic please okay yes in the paper I think on on Section uh 3.2 where it says um Municipal land use law uh which provided provides for a dtype Vari in particular cases and for special reasons what are the special reasons uh yeah I described those the special reasons where the site's particularly suited for this and uh and Redevelopment is property promotes the general welfare which is a purpose of Zing uh improved visual environments and other purposes zing and uh it's an appropriate location but underneath it says special reasons um is a term difficult to Define uh with uh with exactitude so I just wanted to know exactly what that means well if I could if I could interject a little bit just because I think it might help and save time the the criteria that are specified in the land use law were as testified to they are purposes of the statute they're the reason that we're allowed to do Master Planning and Zoning so I I believe what we heard from the applicants engineer and planner meet the met the criteria with regard to satisfying those and I don't believe it's as confusing as it might sound when you read what you were reading from there because there's long-established law that shows the demonstration of these purposes as the special reasons that's all I have right but is this going to be um um new things that will come up or the special reasons were already mentioned here will testify to over okay okay um this that at this time I should also speak about the sign I think we need to see if the applicant is going to testify about something I forget what it was you said you're you'd like to testify okay so if you would they want to finish their Witnesses and then you can cross- examine all three or four three Witnesses call the appc back to okay we're finished with the I just want to make sure we're finished with the engineer finished with the engineer for now he'll be available to answer questions okay there was a question that was posed as to any uh plants or merchandise out outside could you possibly invest that um we've always sold sold plants and nice containers in the front of the building or whatever sold it but also decorated the spot um that was grandfathered originally on the original building and we couldn't put it to we you know we're limited how far out we could go and so forth or whatever um so that six foot porch would have some display items plants you know maybe some on it and things like that um not like a warehouse but you know what I'm saying be that kind of a Nur nursery garden center I guess you'd say that kind of a look um which is a that's a customary use for this kind of an activity but not the parking lot or the sidewalk right right yeah right right sir under the porch under the porch not no dis no outdoor display in the parking lot no or the sidewalks is that correct yeah no and and just to be clear you're talking about plant material and plants and those sorts things not bulk bags of mulch and stone and those types of landscape mat nursery garden center like that way but they'll beig plants you know okay you know you know place to to SL and while you're while you're here and back of the RO um you you have expressed the willingness to discuss with your neighbor working out a a common dumpster enclosure or slightly moving that parking space to accommodate yeah we I'm sure we can figure that one out fairly easily I mean it's it's all the way to the back of both of our Lots really at this point or whatever um and the owner of the lot behind both of us where that little brown building is on the bottom or whatever yeah um she she would have been here but she Liv in madis not in New York City but she said whatever we decide she's absolutely thrilled with the whole thing the way it is right now so we have flexibility even with with um cace mcder on that um before we had 15 feet between the two buildings were where the where the access driveway went through um and so we could still do that we could still access through there whatever but a lot 1101 had their dumpster on top of that you know on sitting on that cross e or that right away and I was just wondering is that by moving it down we're moving it now it's going to be actually better for both of us that there wouldn't be a dumpster right against her building right there so I just want to clarify that and we this is a general question maybe in the whole thing um s because it's her has an apartment on the second floor she has two of the blue those blue um recycling things um whatever you want to call them we had some originally but because we were just commercial they took them away uh the county took them away so I'm asking a general question would then be okay that we would have those kind of recycling inter besides the dumpster I'm not really talking about the dumpsters per se but for recycling now that we're gonna have a residential unit on the second floor such as La 111 I don't think that's for this okay I just that's the county yeah I was just thinking about the time is it you know I mean we're talking dumpsters the county Prov they Rec any of our Witnesses are prepared to answer for the questions but that concludes our affirmative application request the application okay any more questions the applicant any more question one for Tom okay the the basement is not not included in the floor area ratio I Paul should really answer that it's a pretty complex it's important detail so it's a good question Paul will the basement be counted towards flare ratio and if not why not it's it's not counted as part of the f as long as it's used rest storage based on the latest revision in the Land Development or Land Management ordinance 10 years ago it would have been counted today it is not by by the ordinance by the ordinance definitions of um gross floor area I think it's gross floor area element of um the floor area ratio definition and Paul are they required to have storage for the residential unit in the basement not in this Zone there are some zones that require certain minimum storage in in multif family zones sometimes you have that where a minimum amount of storage per unit is required but not in the S thank you okay thank you Paul anybody else no okay we'll open it to the public one more time okay so once again anybody who's online if you wanted to raise your hand unmute yourself um raise your hand or then anybody who's actually in the room can come over to this seat and answer your question or give us your comment all right so this is now time for any questions and any comments or testimony but please come to the mic and we'll swear you in please raise your right hand do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God please state your name and address and spell your last name Robert Lynch l y n c 36 tle Avenue my question is it's very very quick uh but um uh all this U this rigoll about the dumpster um I'm just curious uh this lady's house building has a large area behind it with three parking spots she's got two for their tenant one for her or whatever and all the rest of is just open why is she pushing to have it away from her her building why can't she just put that back there and not bother them I think that's what we're talking about I think it I mean that's no she wants to have it with uh uh duel with the the longell I think we can we can work the I just I just you know there's all kinds of space back there yes and it's good I can speak it's good to have it not against the building like it was because that's what what fire that went up the back of the building so we that's why it's good to have it away okay I think the engineers are working here W where the dumpsters going that's amazing so that's what started the fire you think the dumpster no no what what really what happened you want me to explain it you don't know where the fire started right right so the um County the prosecut always couldn't figure it out nor either the fre insurance compan but there was a the buildings were only 15 ft apart for that driveway to access it's going to be much more than that now I see and there was a window my building was on fire and it blew out that window which blew over and we had tons of pictures to her dumpster and her two recycling bins which completely they weren't there in the morning and then her lid and whatever she had her dumpster went up the back of her building I understand in that 15 ft so now I'm thrilled that we can get it further away from the you know from building right um every Everything further away from each other which is would avoid what happened actually you know some of that sound good to you have a brand new building I think I think we have some well now you can testify or ask questions if you'd like to yes and you could go to the mic and do that and you can give us your testimony too if you'd like to talking about um um the the past year the past year has been one of the worst years of my life so this is this is through in the fire uh so um you're taking a picture now you're showing a picture now so let's mark it as oh why don't we Mark all your pictur is 01 02 03 whatever number it is and that way when you talk about it you just say that number so we'll take our time to mark them all that Frank your pictures as well actually you guys share the screen so it goes back to the main main cameras video C I don't like sharing but right now we could have it so okay um and we go back to us actually I'm just trying to see if he'll be able to see you here they'll be able to see better up front once you start talking again ma'am would you be kind enough to speak into the microphone you're very helpful so let's do one at a time starting with 01 and just describe what it shows please okay um this is uh picture 101 and it shows the um is this is the day of the fire so it shows the firemen and this uh the florist and this is me so um see the parking lots so the reason I want to show these pictures is because you can see the line what they are proposing is to continue this line onto it so that the it should the proximity of their their parking lot onto my building and um and I I I love it that they trying they going to rebuild it's going to be beautiful and uh and I don't have a problem with that the my only concern are the parking lots right in front of the building because I'll show you picture too so this is oops sorry this is the picture two um uh so it doesn't show but uh their building burned down to the ground my building the second floor and third floor burned down completely and the second floor collaps to the first so the first floor was gone and in the basement we have water up to here so it's been horrendous it's been more than a year and we we finally rebuild and I'm very I'm very very grateful for that so I purchased the building in 2012 and um I love it and it's such a beautiful building and we have a very successful interior design store and I take pride of on maintaining it be beautifully but um so this is picture three that uh it shows the burn damage and then uh the roof was about to collapse so they put this in there but uh um you can see again the um the dumpster this is where the dumpster used to be right there but back then there was not a problem because it was an instent that only we used for the people that went to to the apartment because they had a separate entrance they had the parking lot in the front and sometimes they use my parking lot in the front which I didn't have a problem with that and they also they had the dumpster on the side of the front of their building so nobody used the E the ismen was just for access to their back or access for the people that live on the second floor so now all of a sudden it's going to be it's going to be transformed into a major uh in and- out in and out uh location so now this is when the building was already rebuilt we put new roof and all of that but you see this truck and this is the parking lot so it continues onto that and it's the proximity even though they say is 15 feet and um I don't know the regulations but it's so CL that I'm so afraid that somebody's going to back into it and create another fire or injur to the building so I'm okay with them to build in putting parking lots to the front to the back to the side but right next to it if they just do probably horizontally maybe maybe three spots I would be very happy with that to avoid any further um any further problem and that's the reason that's why that was saying that his happy he's going to be even farther because this the fire started with in their buildings in the middle of the night and they it was undetermined so the Flames went onto my building uh and the second floor exploded so it was really horendous uh and um so that's my only concern and um I'm very happy that it's going to be build instead of looking at the that dump for a whole year so it's going to be but the thing okay thank you thank you I would just by way of argument like to address the fact that I'm sorry can't hear you by way of argument I would like to address the fact that the the common driveway easement gives both sides a buffer and all of the proposed parking head in parking is on our property and it will have plenty of room for people to pull in and then pull out and back out so I I think that they did a great job laying out this site plan to make that easement very usable and to not have parking in the front of either of the buildings that that certainly helps the community as a whole and that's part of the dedication and and getting the parking the necessary parking onto our property rather than in front we can't hear you honey speak you know ma'am I don't really think this is the appropriate time like he's giving a closing statement uh technically the hearing was done and he's giving a closing statement I guess I would give her few minutes of closing statement if she wants to make one but it's a little unusual yeah but it's his turn to just explain why he urges the board to to Grant his application you want to make a final statement by the microphone plan uh yes what I was saying is that I'm not against them rebuilding and I'm not against them in the neighborhood that's I'm all all about it and I'm just against further damage to my building because if somebody um backs up for any reason instead of they press the accelerator and then instead of going forward they go back that that was that's the the only reason I'm trying to no that's that's why you have insurance you know you can't do we want to do we want to go again you can't you know stop what if what if from happening but we try to do the best we can looking at at everything here right but there should be EI a buffer or something or or just reroute those three spots I'm not asking for all of the spots but just the ones in front of the building because that is of course it's just like um anybody can just drive through it or back up into into the building again and um of course we cannot cannot predict the future but we can avoid further for the mistakes major mistakes uh was there any uh tielines or anything uh post there no no not at this time because it's it's the full driveway easement for them to pull in and then when they're pulling out to pull back out and drive out head first into 24 ft between the spot the end of that spot and your building there's 24 ft right that's a lot space norm and and that is that is the standard backup withth in the ordinance is the 24 ft so they meet they meet the requirements and I think if there is a concern on your end if you're worried about that I can understand why you just went through a fire you could on your property right there you could probably put some of those cement Bard that's something you think about I think it's concern it's necessary here and the building is quite a you know a distance now it's not as close as the used be so I think you're you're okay okay okay does the applicant have anything further that they would like to present not at this time okay um Paul or Frank any additional comments or anything I have nothing further okay Frank anything Frank that's okay Frank spoke before well he is tired um he came back from I'm sorry I did say nothing from me but I was muted oh okay well thank thanks Frank we believe you so if the board is interested you could entertain a motion and then talk about it if you're concerned so the motion would be a motion to approve the um use variance or D variance not a use variance of the D variance for FL ratio and the C variances site plan exceptions as explained and as requested um and it it would be um subject to the standard conditions and to the condition that um they'll comply with Paul and Frank's reports um the will seek to coordinate with their neighbor um for the U possibility of a common dumpster uh enclosure and location um that would be subject to the review and approval of the uh uh Township engineer uh any dispute between the applicants uh and the township engineer would be returned to the board for final determination um they'll also uh provide uh the details of the uh any balled lightings downl Ballard lightings one or two along the sidewalk uh to the residential unit um they will be as a condition that they'll be allowed to have outdoor display of plants and plant plant uh products but not U on the on the port but not in the driveway or the sidewalks or not on the sidewalks and that will not include bags of mulch or similar large um bags of mulon soil and things of that nature it'll be more plant materials and things that are being sold as uh Nursery type plants um and uh I didn't have any other conditions but uh the board had any or I I don't remember any other can I ask ask that you put in the condition that the um the pad site for the generator and the uh air conditioning units if necessary meet with Mr ferrer's approval as to location and size yes thank you and um that's correct the pad sites for the the um AC units or condenser units uh uh HVAC units and and for the uh possible generator shall be subject to to the review and approval of the township engineer and the impervious coverage relief necessary for that up to the number that was mentioned by Mr dtra 76 76.2 was it6 76% is is being granted um is there such a motion and by the way this requires a five person vote of the six people who are here because it is a d variance and by Statute all D variances must be uh can only be approved by five of the seven members of a board of adjustment that's a Statewide um legal requirement I'm just I'm just letting you know that but I'm I defer to you on your discretionary judgment on this decision and we need a motion I'll make a motion second a roll call Janine Mr hi m St Leonard hi mrus hi Mr first hi Mr Martino hi CH hi congratulations and good luck thank you thank you so much okay great thank you thank you thank you good luck with you you have a nice project I guess was like an idea like the idea of what they want to look like keep became hold you to it like this you can have the phone board I think will be happy room I don't know if you can you know how you know how boards are do you want to go over scheduling hang on a second we're not done oh we're not done with our meeting if you don't [Laughter] mind got a dry sense of humor by the way ended the architecture ended the architecture before it was Trump National isn't that right e your your designs were in the original by DeLorean wow EXC me if you don't mind we have a meeting still Contin I believe it I believe it a beautiful house July 11 we have um B Lan which should be a small application and that's why we go right into 1525 you guys receive those plans I handed to you um B thing [Music] 15 um should probably be August 2nd as well but that's that's up in the air August 8th as always we have our 202 206 the project that's been on since 20 right we'll hear that one and then we do have one other application let me just see real quick that came in really I'm going to say a week or two ago um it's um a de extension it came in at the end of the day so we still haven't got okay just to be clear it's August 1st and August 8 okay yes okay we 100% right so be August 1 right now open but more than likely we'll be hearing 1525 and possibly okay so at this point we're full I know it's summer but we do have applications we do y oh that's good we'll see you the 11 thank you yep okay do I hear a motion to don't move second [Applause] okay everybody nice good night everybody she's in the city she lives in the city she managed is uh