##VIDEO ID:wgVG0hfWZJ0## quick notice of this meeting of the zoning Board of adjustment was sent by email to the as Park Press and the coar our official newspapers and was poed on theard building Mr Mr O Mr Mr ask everyone please stand for the pledge I pledge aliance to the flag the United States of America the stands indivisible we have a motion to approve the minutes of the next is a resolution approving the application of William and Mary Ellen mland 29 15th Avenue Mr chairman that was uh last month's meeting we appr construction of a front covered porch to replace an existing front covered porch and construction of a second floor balcony over the to be constructed front porch and the only conditions of no I think you said no enclosure or covering of the second story balcony abs for the approval is on board no enclosure of the replacement front porch absent for the approval and we also had here uh the testimony indicated that the applicants anticipate using the existing foundation for the improvements uh however per the specific testimony and discussion presented uh if the site or construction circumstances dictate the use of a New Foundation in this particular circumstances no further requirement for them to return to the board so if that is all acceptable we can adopt that I'll make next is the resolution approving the application of Willian 209 Avenue that was an approval to um authorize a number of improvements to an existing single family home and it was um let's see um it was uh an addition uh porch and the conditions of note included uh basically that um uh the shed shall be resided uh the siding of the shed shall match the siing of the renovated home uh no enclosure of that front Bo traps and further formal approval air conditioning uh condenser located in a Zone compliant location the inclusion of a note confirming that Landscaping AR shall be planted around the shed so as to minimize any adverse atic appearance associated with that non-conforming front yard location um perpetually replacing the Landscaping as necessary confirmation that the existing fence in the Northwest portion of the property shall be relocated so as to essentially be concurrent with the Northwest property line uh existing outdoor shower shall be tied into the municipal sanitary sewer system if the necessary by the prevailing regulations and or our friend friend uh Ted uh St Mor Management caign on site and the only condition that I wanted to talk to you about is um I know there was discussion about them relocating the shed and Tony I remember you said something about uh siding and hiding the shed I I like when people rhyme so I wrote it down but um so uh Joe Co the applicants attorney said I mean applicants engineer said I think we decided I don't think we had to relocate any any further back I just couldn't remember my notes were inconsistent so that where it was okay so we'll leave it so we'll eliminate that so we can adopt that uh as modified if that's acceptable uh but I do still like the rhyming thank you uh if we can accept that adopt that as mod Mr Mr Mr Mr yes Mr that's it for all part of business yes it is okay we're going to be hearing four cases tonight what we ask is that each applicant uh PL a budget their time for a maximum of one hour uh per presentation if you need more than one hour you're not limited to one hour it's just that we'd like to get on with the next application and you come back at the end of the evening if we're not going past 10 um if we do go past 10 then your case would be a Jour to the subsequent meeting for us to finish it um so we do try to keep within an hour but if you can't do that um we would let you go over just would expect a yield to the next applicant to so we can try to get through all cases tonight scheduling is very difficult and um we hate to see the fourth case get bumped off because first three has exceeded um you know that that one hour timeit so appreciate if you just respected that and with that the first case is uh Keith kersch at 211 3rd Avenue in ground pool okay as the applicant team comes forward we'll just do a couple of uh preliminary procedural things first up is is there anyone here who had any questions or comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the notice they received okay uh the board secretary and I review the noce everything to be in order so it would be my opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed tonight we will swear in Ted deont Ted is our zoning officer and construction official Ted D swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to theal providing will be the truth to the best of knowledge to help you guys thank you and we'll mark into the record what we as a board have before us A1 is the development application package did August 9th [Music] 2024 and see A2 is the bur of Belmar application checklist A3 is the minor uh land use zoning permit and that's dated July 3r and is that July 4th or July July 4th so we'll mark that as A3 A4 are the plan swi and variance plan prepared by tour over engineering AJ gito Lun sheet dated August 9th 2024 and I think that's it April corre yes all right uh good evening why don't you just introduce yourselves and we'll swear you all in and and get going Keith Jennifer okay and Mr burito how are you did you just put your enter your appearance sure my name is AJ I'm a principal engineer of Two River engineering located at 265 34 C New Jersey I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey I from this board many years ago but throughout many Board St all right so all three of you could please raise your hands do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best you knowledge to help you guide I do I do all right let record reflect that all three Witnesses have been sworn and if you want to have a seat or if you want to do it and uh can I just Mr chairman can I ask the applicants couple real quick questions rolling absolutely uh just um have a seat and uh um Mr Mrs K are you the owners of the subject property yes we are and how long have you owned it roughly it's a year and a half okay one and a half years and my notes reflect that there's two dwelling units on the site a front and a rear garage CT okay um and I'm assuming that's a pre-existing non-conforming use and um so if I just ask you a couple real quick questions then we can turn it over to you just with regard the front dwelling that's a single family home correct correct and how many stories is it that's two stories and uh number of bedrooms three and number of bathrooms uh three three okay and is is that front structure occupied yes it is okay okay uh is it occupied by you or is it yes okay okay and then just let's talk about the the rear Cottage that's a single family dwelling so to speak yes and uh how many stories is that uh two stories and how many bedrooms um I'd say one okay and how many bathrooms uh one bathroom and is that occupied not currently okay my daughter's uh come home from college sometimes they stay there okay so it's vacant and I know you're going to add a pool so uh however you want to handle talk about uh what you want and uh why you're here and all those good things sure um so Mr kers hired me to do a pool plan for Met's property um just so the property it's it's 211 Third Avenue um it's 7500 ft in area and it's located in the r75 zone um once we surveyed the property um we determined that the existing lock coverage was 5 54.1% where 50% is is the maximum lock coverage allowed um so what we did was we removed some existing payment on the property we proposed to convert some of the existing driving into permeable cavers where we get a 50% reduction of lock coverage So the plan presented um brought the lock coverage back down to 49.9% which which would be conforming um but we also determined that there's an existing Cottage in the rear that were told it was an existing nonconformity and that's why we're we're here the board today to legalize that particular Cottage and hopefully approve the pl be constructed um I have two exhibits uh the first one is just a color rendering of the variance plan A5 is an illustrated rendering prepared by your office prepared by office it's uh dated August 9th 2024 is not so it's the same one the same thank you and then A6 is what A6 is a color photo board um with six color actually Four Color and two Rock PR fortunately besid take by myself yesterday okay thank you I'll to show the the the the board first uh the top left I'm sorry the top left photo is uh from the street that's the existing house as it exists from the street um the top right photo is standing in the rear yard looking at the rear of the house has a porch in the rear um bottom left photo shows the cottage um to the rear of the house um center right center photo top photo is standing in the rear yard um kind of looking down the driveway kind of a narrow driveway um along the easterly side of the property and the next two photos uh show the two side property lines um this is the Westerly prop or the easterly property line I believe um there's a fence and and some trees and then the other photo west of the side property line um which is also vegetation the fence uh this also shows some of the existing accessory structures that are also in in the area um you guys are probably more aware than I am but the routing area um similar size lot similar type of houses um many have these accessory structures in the re I'm not sure how many of them actually Cottages or are livable or whatnot or I'm legalize but it certainly it fits in the area um the plan we proposed like I said was um had more lock coverage than was allowed so we're trying to reduce that so we think Al con a swimming pool for bringing the plan more into than what exists there today um and the that for your presentation I'm sorry is that is that any questions question um I I would like to just make comment you mentioned a couple times um we're not here to legalize um or the use of the pre-existing nonconform college so that's not on the that's not on the agenda I mean this is really just about approving the VAR that we need for the pool so any action we take here is not going to um give any sort of different treatment of what the cottage is from what it was yesterday and from what it will be tomorrow I just want to be clear about that okay I'm I'm not sure why the pool envelope why the yeah I can address that Ted I think reading your review uh it appears that this is a non-conforming site because there's two dwelling units on it which is not um permitted so it's a pre-existing nonperforming use as you indicated Mr chairman and Ted uh and it's going to remain a preexisting and and what happened is with the pool in the past and you have interpreted that to be tactical expansion of the non-conforming use even though you're expanding the structure but it's expanding the use by the pool we've done that so I think that's the use the property itself is undergoing a change or an expansion that requires a variance the approval of the variance to allow the pool is not going to do anything regarding want to correct the comment because I don't want that to be reflected on a record as if we're agree to my apology that's the way I understood it I think I was just say I was saying it a different way that's why that's why clarifi it so we're good okay um so if you if you're done with your presentation uh we're going to defer to the board for board questions and pretty straight on the other side of the pictures that little piece of the bottom the bottom left and the uh this here yeah is that where like is that where the pool actually I probably probably the better picture is this picture where I'm kind of standing in front of the cottage looking that's the back of the existing house the pools under right in that area which is the same as down there which is sort of the same as right in that area there we the pool is I I thought to I should explain that it's a 12T by 21t INR pool fa modest size pool it's uh six feet off the um six feet off the existing deck to the rear um and 10 ft off the side proper line so we're still going to have some grass and everything yeah they'll be grass around it and they're removing some of the existing pavers that are currently there so um there's no just the coping of the pool there no sidewalk walkway around the pool just coping um more of a comment just uh I what you said I believe what I see there is you're reducing you know originally it was up to 54 almost 55 and you remove paper concrete whatever in order to keep it at normal so I appreciate that and so the only we're talking about is because because the back's the entr describe I'm not sure what the low end is or where the end low end will be on side here and there be entrance right in this corner here steps down yeah steps down so words steps the steps don't run all the way across the deck area so that's why that's and the existing driveway going back is pavr it's all paav going down we're proposing about 340 ft remove theing per my question is I don't think I should ask because it would deal with the garage Cottage you can't have a garage and a cottage in the same building I don't think there's not enough room there I I think the um that notation is just when the survey was done well at any rate I don't want to open this up because you think that approving this as a building I don't even know approv was it a garage and convert it to a was it done with building permits I don't know but um that would be my only question so I don't think it's the time to open it up now because I think it's appropriate if if you're concerned about was that was that I don't know how much history you have about the house was it always a garage that was converted and when it was converted was it converted legally with I believe so um the house actual house is 100 years old a little over 100 I believe the cottage from former owner I believe he said it was um somewhere like at least half of that amount or so so I think it was there for you know the time that he was there so I don't think changes to it sound everything was on that I has it been rented no it hasn't if the property is assessed okay okay great I'll get this I have a question about the fencing the fencing is going around the property not the pool um so the fencing will be um basically off of the deck straight across all the way around up to the bottom of the driveway so it'll kind of be the whole backyard so if in fact the cottage is rented that there's no fencing around the pool to protect somebody from I think the the fencing there would be no fence between the cottage that's what I'm the question becomes what is the fencing requirement around the pool does that meet the close the property so so you don't have to enclose each building to keep the buildings away it has to be in the public to be around thank you um the only question I have is is and Ted I know you've been through this before I just don't know how I don't recall how a pool calculates against lock coverage is it is I know does so everything else does with the water I'm sorry what I don't understand what that means the water in the pool right doesn't count as lot coverage the square footage of the footprint of the pool does count only the not only the yeah we took that out years right right this is why I always confused we didn't include the water service we didn't include the okay very I just want to try to get the numbers right it used to say that in there then they just took it out but they didn't say that right great and then um com the question but um just for the record Mr Kennedy a statement on here it says a variance is required to retain an existing garage Cottage and I just want to strike that and just say absolutely it's reflected on whatever you're calling this piece of evidence this big sh just to reiterate what we said before that you know we're not doing anything regarding not taking any action at all regarding the uh the cage got it well well we're going to over to the public and then we come back to com so any from the public is um if anyone's here to discuss this application now would be the time to stand up raise your hand somehow acknowledge yes sir we live right next door and we have no objection uh you'd have to come up just come on up we just going to make it real official I'm sorry but that's how we do it uh just state your name and address please uh Charles and Lor Croco 213 Third Avenue and Coco is C CCO okay you SAR that information testimony about the Prov sent you providing will be the truth best know to help you that yes now it's official say it again what you said we live right same side where the pool is going to be we have no objection excellent okay thank you sir y anyone else from the public no close the public question comment section and we'll go straight back to the board in the same word as we just had I'm good I'm good good uh just a couple comments um noting here that we have a variety have pre-existing pvers and you're going to do new um it's just a comment I think you should give consideration a good layout for your papers there in the rear yard uh my concern for you is that you're not giving poer erress into the pool you're not establishing a defined area for chairs Etc uh the walkway back to the propol you know pool equipment and we're checking we're checking that they're perious pvers so if you were to make any revisions to this I would suggest you do it in advance okay I have no objection so that candate sum up sure if the application were to be approved some of the potential conditions would be compliance with all the promises commitments and representations made during the hearing uh we usually have a 24mth shelf life within which you need to obain necessary permits compliance with any applicable approvable housing rules regulations any outside approv we typically say U unless mod unless W by the engineer grading andage details need to be prepared or approved by the bur engineer uh when it's done uh we typically require a certification saying that the pool was uh installed in accordance with the approved plans in accordance with the testimony and in accordance with the resolution uh again no uh and again I think this is important the pool complies in all respects all set back so there's no variance relief granted uh for that there's no lot coverage variance we talked about that um confirmation of Tony indicated that it is going to be the per permeable papers as indicated on the plans um and I think we usually say pull equipment in a zoning compliant location and I think we also full compliant fence and some of the things um we said today both variance relief and we are going to uh uh have the plans revised so as to portray and confirm that uh just Mr chairman to your point to avoid any confusion later on about legitimizing that that structure we're going to have any references on the plan to that remov it's a pre-existing non-conforming use and that's not changing as a result of this pool and um Tony it was not a condition was recommendation about reconsidering a better layout for the papers Andress Andress um and as long as they stay within the variant I mean the code requirements no requirement to come back here uh so I think uh AJ were those uh conditions acceptable to to you all yes okay so Mr chairman if it's okay we can make a motion to approve this application second congratulations okay the next application is Lisa and John Cronin 1501 C Street okay as the applicants come forward we'll do a couple of EP dets so first up for the second and not the final time tonight we're going to swear in bian are off you swear that information testimony you're to provide thank you is there anyone here who had any questions or comments or concerns regarding the notice an aial photo okay uh my friend the board secretary and I reviewed everything in time be in order so it be my humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed tonight we will Mark into the record what we as a board have before us A1 is the minor land use zoning permit and that is dated June 18 2024 June 22nd 2024 we have A2 will be the minor land application denial form dated June 2024 A3 is the development application package dated June 28 2024 A4 is a picture of the front of the home and we'll just get that qualified in a little bit A5 appears to be a picture of the rear of the home and A6 are the uh floor plans and elevations prepared by uh uh Champion modular EXL home dated September 11th 2020 that was A6 and A7 is a um construction drawing site plan prepared by Felman Architects and it's dated June 11 2024 and it's one page A8 is a surve of property prepared by Charles surmont and that's dat is September 14th 2023 one A9 are the architectural plans prepared by Feldman Architect dated June 11 2024 and good evening Mr midleton where in your Witnesses haveit okay what number A10 is what an aial uh of the property and surrounding property by my office all right so why don't you two introduce yourselves uh Lisa cran c r o n i n yes okay Peterson evening and uh Tom just for the record your business address uh it's Tom Peterson architect six Country Lane how Howers okay and Joe just for the record State uh your name and business address joseba K iua kba Engineering Services M and uh if we could raise your hand uh ladies and gentlemen do you swear that the information in testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guys all right and just for the record Tom you're testifying in capacity as an architect yes and licenses and certifications are current and up to date and I think you were here before us last month yes and uh Joe uh you are testifying in Your Capacity as engineer and and plan planner and your licenses and certifications are current and upfront as well correct okay and I think you were before us maybe not last month but two months ago three months ago four months ago last month two months ago okay got it uh thank you yes just briefly I'm here of Mr the issue tonight is They Se approval for a new Sun 14 testimony from Mr that the purpose isely uh because her mother is moving in with them mother conting a d first floor to a bedroom and to provide a little more space for the family proposing rather it does issues proce uh you're one of the owners of the property you with your husband and how long proper as I recall this is a Moder that was built by Mr albertus yeah and he's behind us correct and you've told me your mother is either living with you now or intends to move in with you and she suffers she and would have trouble going upstairs where the bedrooms are located yeah as I recall you have three three bed bedrooms upstairs correct two bathrooms a den on the first floor yeah kitchen living room and the diary yeah open yeah okay so describe if you could to the board what you're proposing just so the existing den area that provides a little bit of Separation we were making bed for her my mom and she has difficulty walking it's portfolio that child so we' like to add the sunro to the rear so that we just have a little separation area for TV or just actually sitting reading maybe place you get away have a little separation um just just a little room for everybody because the Den now place you would go to read a paper read a book right so that's yeah be available tomet everyone give your I guess proposal sure guys F couldn't make it so I'm pin hitting tonight so that's why I'm here um what I would say is that um these types of additions and you guys see this kind of stuff all the time coming more and more common I know for PR they have a family reason for that but what we're seeing is things like this that are very similar for people doing home offices or places where they can work from the house this is a nice spot for them in yard because it's also got access from the backyard so it becomes a nice sort of an entry into the house without going directly into the house um but it also uh gives them a little privacy or a little bit of seclusion sometimes call them Flex rooms office area City area whatever um if you take a look at this from the drawings you can see it really does have a look of the sun both sides have glass uh full wall the back has glass and then in the middle of that is going to be are fireplace on the inside you know gas direct vent fireplace not a fireplace with Chim um it's not a big room 10t by 14t is is is very appropriate for this type of an addition and for this type of a use um this doesn't really impact the intensity of the use for the house or the intensity of the occupancy in the house or anything like that um the U the addition is going to be on crawl space it's not on a basement so we're not adding any additional space in the basement area down below it's only one story Edition so very low impact in the yard for the neighborhood um Joe is going to kind of go over the rationale and why um why we have this located where it is uh it's an unusual property though and Joe will go over it the way the back property line cuts out a slant and that continues for all the houses right there along the block you'll even see for the houses that are also even closer and closer and closer to those property lines none of these residents did that that's just the way U you know that block but I think the overall thing to to leave you with is that this type of in addition and this type of development on a property um although for the family is is more family related than anything would also be a very typical type of an application for um for any homeowner and um as I said I know you guys see this stuff all the time but I wanted to get that on the record that there's nothing unusual about this so just go back Co home offices I think we're seeing more young adults move in with parents correct and we're seeing more seniors back the children all sorts of reasons e it's uh I remember the time warning I remember so but I'll say very quickly um the last four or five years has seen the popularity and the request for these types of rooms um really explode used to be working from home maybe a couple hours a week you sit at the kitchen counter you do those kinds of things well now more and more people are spending several days working at home or even more well sitting at the kitchen counter uh you know sitting at the dining room table becomes a little bit more uh difficult as well to have a little place so you all know that open floor plans and open Kitchen open Family area but what we've lost a little bit of is that kind of a private area we can just go and sit or watch TV so that's why you that's why you're seeing a lot of these types of projects many of them don't have to come Bo Joe you you've reviewed the pl correct I have you have thei and I've also been to the site and review the neighbor okay he describ just briefly the variances involved in the positive and negative criteria certain so the only variance here rear yard set back the coverage complies both in and building coverage it is a slightly undersized lot um 3,894 ft 4,000 required existing condition and it's shallow depth as was described by Mr Peterson specifically on that nor I'm sorry southern side Lots only 77.4 ft deep so it's somewhat shallow and an odd shape um you can see on the aerial which I had handed out that Mr Peterson is absolutely correct that that angled property line continues throughout the rear yards of not only this lot but the lots to the North and South uh the lot to the north it's actually their sideline uh the lot to the South has two homes on it and both of those homes are impacted by that property line and you can see that their re setback is substantially less than what exists on this lot is actually less than what we're proposing the sun room so this will not be out of character with the neighborhood the homes to the South that even closer to the property line the home immediately to the north at at 401 uh you can see has almost no rear yard setb correct so all of which is you know demonstrates that this is in character of neighborhood this is also so the Varian is here from granted both the C1 and C2 criteria the C1 is the hardship criteria by reason of exceptional Nar or shape of a property uh it creates a hardship this shape of the property and shallowness creates the hardship here for creating this additional space additional space is warranted it's conforming with the building coverage um it is only one story so have little impact on air air open space um so I think the varant could be granted under the C1 criteria I think it can also be granted under the C2 criteria the promotion of general welfare um Aging in place is certainly a large concern these days and the Fair Housing Act does indicate that you know some minor relief can be granted to justify cases where we have those kind of conditions um so I think for multiple reasons this could be granted both the C1 and C2 criteria I also don't believe it'll have any substantial detriment to the public good it is only one story it's not at a character of the neighborhood it's actually even after this the reard setback will be greater than most of the neighbors um no parking going from three bedrooms to four bedrooms is still two parking stalls required uh so uh and doesn't create any other Paran so I think for all those reasons there'll be no impact to the public good there'll be no detriment to the Zone plan or the zone of ordinance so my opinion the variances can be granted as request than any any other comments that's it for have question question the shed is the shed remaining in Poli as a kid also she's 99 years old she's she's she's got stories to tell um so good on good on you for for bringing her great no question i' would love to know the history of De divided up these properties like I think his ruler slipped didn't correct it who gets first dips on the sun room your husband or your mom oh you I say your mom my mom for sure I understand what you're doing and I have other question Mr kba the paper patio uh I believe that's uh answer concrete walkway concrete driveway a patio shed AC condenser wood on side you're sure build C the impervious coverage was created by Mr felman's office the plan that was submitted he does identify that it is compliant I believe he did count that as pervious under the under I did not review The Patio to see uh um the conditions of the sand joints were there but I do believe the P probably considered part of the PVE correct that's the existing Ted what's the minimum set requ for shed the so I guess we should have the shed corrected to that's correct it might yeah at the back left corner yeah I just I got wh I'm cool with the sun room but you know I'm staring at the survey the shed's not conforming you have should be corrected you know I understand though that there might be eress issues there the do swing out a good photo of it to look at it my main concern question is that you know when I'm looking at the aerial as lovely as it is and we're saying that there only 50% coverage on this lot doesn't way me not a Matha no further questions I'm going to go I wait till the end but because of the questions that Mr I I had similar questions and concerns and and um I visited the property uh Ted just so I'm clear about it um there's a number of spots where there's um Riverstone on this property how does that count against Lot coverage lot coverage unless unless it's going dve 50% not in the driveway it's in like beds other in beds you're allowed to do that it doesn't count as it so so if I have stone in a bed that's considered as if were grass then there's no charge for that how about asge signicant am as yes um it has to be listed comes with right and that would count whatever the listing is on you're allowed to put that in a rear Yard can't be exposed to the street has to be in the rear right okay great and um I just have the same concern I me I mean just logic tells you when we do the property we do what's here it just looks % in purpose so I'm question that's right that's right as is Right exist that number go up so you know the question is the validity of of what's here where it's saying 46.4 and only going up to 49.8 55 was permitted just just you know appears to be a problem it certainly looks like I have Ian other than that concern I have no concerns to same you don't have the table that shows what was included in it uh I didn't prepare it it's on the top right corner is the table but they didn't actually dve the calculations my office we didn't have it okay um is there anyone here from the public that has any questions or comments regarding this application please raise your hand bring up the microphone tell us what those questions or comments might be no one from the public is raising their hand so we close the public session uh I think you'll really make good use of that sun room but I would also be concerned about those calculations share that opinion as as the calculations say good to go understand your need for full you know some okay uh you know saying but um trying to trying to get to some rationale here if calculations are off need a VAR coverage talking yeah that's what yeah gentle is not here that that would have to be the one that's on record as as to the accuracy Mr I understand saying you you're not the one who did the calculation so it sounds like I'll be the one who is doing it we're a little bit out of loss without you why the other the other gentleman's not involved anymore well I will reconfirm essentially he's okay um and you heard about the astr turf and the permeability of it yes that there's a number that's got to get used for the as Turf because I would assume right now the ASF is being counted as fully permeable so you know the astur calculation is calculating as grass and Mr Mr bian stating here that's really not the case as tur has to take a percentage based on the type you put in I would expect that cation to change on that alone um and then the other things that Mr Al mentioned not withstanding including what the what the total loot coverage is going to ultimately be and whether or not the 49 the projected 49.8% number is correct so let's make sure we get that number because because they're saying right now Mr Kennedy that um this is only going up [Music] 3.4% um from 46.4 to 49.8 but that presumes that original calculation 46 correct and that the expansion 3.4 is only due to the sun okay that's all um beyond that can we vote yeah it could be it could be conent on on confirmation number and then next month's meeting we wouldn't we wouldn't do the true affirmation of this until we get recertified what the actual the what the current loot coverage percent and then with the new if it were to go to 55 or whatever we do those based on what we're doing anyway right so that's my question it's under 55 you know give or take exceeds 55 it's going to trigger backs um any consideration to taking the concrete driveway out the if you are over that that's yeah we could do that when he certifies yes what I would anticipate would happen is part of the we try and get the numbers prior to the next priority issuing the resolution of approval but we would calculate it and if I were determin that the calculation is over we would offer a solution to adjust bring otherwise we have to bring it bring right and I I think what the remedy will be and and just you're doing the calculation just make sure that you know make that the existing paper patio is permeable not imperious and that when be calculation you're also going to certify that you you're validating that it's not impious yes okay same with the as ter so any lock coverage matter you'll come back and that'll be part of new cation okay fur you oh I just was going to say it was done I think three years ago so hopefully under the rules that applied then and newer astr tur actually fairly perous compared to the old giant Stadium classic astr turs um we don't call it astr uh so typically they are a perious material but I will certainly verify okay great okay so that Mr Ken want to summarize application is going to be approved I've taken the liberty of writing some of down potential conditions our standard conditions would be and this would be granting the the rear yard setback variants 25 ft required 13t proposed and the conditions would include the all the promises commitments and representations the team made tonight compliance with the prevailing AAL housing rulle regulations contributions if if they apply uh 24 month shelf life with building per be issued obain NE outside approvals with the understanding that if uh the nature of the changes as a result of those outside approvals for the appearance of necessary raing and drainage details to be reviewed by the bur engineer um when it's done uh finished we'll need a certification from the app professionals confirming that the improvements were installed in accordance with the approved plans the testimony and the authorizing resolution um you typically have the requirement that you perally maintain the Landscaping and some of the things we talked about tonight were uh and this was just something I I thought of and if I'm over set my bounds let me know um obviously it's a great situation that you're helping out your mother but just for the record I think sometimes other towns are very sensitive to say that it's being utilized and approved as and maintained as a single family home it's not a two family home it's not a mother daughter structure that's I think that was the implication and we also talked about the um uh the shed is to be removed or shed to be relocated I think we said theard want it's up to I do think as I've been back there it does because it's on an angle I think it's probably one section and maybe less on the other but there definitely deer on one yeah so it's only at one corner tilted so relocated if if if it if it's not compliant and we are going to um clarify and confirm the coverage calculations um make it very clear that at this point the board is not granting any uh coverage variance relief and um we'll have those calculations put on the zoning table too but I think Mr um chairman to the point that you all made is uh confirm those coverages confirm that uh it's um calculated correctly in accordance with our regulations regarding astro turf or whatever we call it now and and some of those other concrete things and um you'll have that planned to us by by the next meeting and so as Tim indicated if it's not um compant well Joe indicated they're going to try to make a compliance so that there's no variance needed and if it's not compliant and you need a variance you have to come back but hopefully that's not the case so if those Tim those are acceptable to you and your client yes right Mr chairman if they're acceptable board thank you for that summary Mr K appreciate that motion to approve second thank you very much okay our next application this evening is liberato Cale 107 16 all right as the applicant team comes forward 'll a couple of preliminary is there anyone here who had any questions or comments regarding the sufficiency of the notice all right don't see any the board secretary and I theti found be order my opinion be a jurisdic to proceed and what we will do for third but not the final time tonight mon is our instruction officer and zelling official Ted do you SAR that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extension providing will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide thank you and we will Mark into the record what we as a board have before us a one is the minor land use zoning permit and that is dated June 28th 20 I'm sorry June 25th 20124 and June 26 2024 A2 is the zoning board development application package dated July 2nd 2024 and A3 is the variance plan prepared by K Engineering Services one sheet dat June 5th 2024 and a four is a picture uh looking in the yard and A5 is a picture which appears to be from the front and we can have that confirmed in a little bit A6 is the minor land application denial form dated June 26 2024 and A7 uh four plans prepared by Tom Peterson two sheets dated April 30th 2024 and uh good evening again Mr midon good evening Mr K members of the board the applicant requesting permission for second as for the plan that Mr Peterson and his sons created there's a few variances in connection with the application coverage barely change this application of an you call a back in the back house it's a small structure never been rented they don't want to rent it the grandmother used to use it for the place to cook she's cooking for a lot of people here I think as her Sun said we have man caves that was per air conditioning as a bathroom I guess a little area people a bedroom I don't think so but so that created the unusual issue that created the use par because it was viewed by that as a separate living structure because it view that way technically we need technically we need a use because we're expanding the intensity of the front house by proposing the addition people sleep there just just sitting there so that all being said um I think I think the photograph rendering for I think this will be substantial Improvement ex home I think High all boats I think this type of structure3 real so all right just take your name again uh Tom Peterson architect and business address six Country Lane how New Jersey all right Tom good evening and welcome again uh do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide would be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide I do and just for the record you're testifying Your Capacity as a licensed certified architect and your licenses and certifications are up to date as uh in the last 10 minutes that I'm aware I also have some more presents for you all right a so A8 is so A8 is the rendering that we have there and that's the Illustrated rendering prepared by your office yes is there a date on it uh I don't think so put today's I'm add all right so this was a and A9 is and then all right so we're Mar them as photogs of the home of the property okay within the last couple weeks taken by your office and last s weeks for you and then are all just some copies that might be EAS for you to have them here what I'm going to be showing the photographs as well as the rendering before you begin as a as a foundation so the the rendering was pred by your office cor and that will accurately the house after this bu correct right down to the windows right down so the windows the roof shaping we still haven't picked out the exact siding and all that other stuff yet but uh this is the exact size proportion the roof line the metal roof here the bracketry uh all of the things that um that we're showing on there will be be you're the design arit right yes could you describe the current condition of the house in the propos so uh this is an existing lot existing a lot with a family single family home up front a small home um and then as Tim explained there's a little structure in back it has a bathroom it has a little kitchenet area no cooling nobody Sleeps there nobody does anything it's sort of an extension of an outdoor kitchen but as Ted pointed out it could be considered another dwelling so for that reason mentioned that that would be considered so it's an undersized lot the undersized shape of the lot uh the position of the house and the narrowness of the house are really uh the main drivers for the variances that we're asking for to go ahead and expand currently the house on the property and I'm going to show you some photographs now so currently the house on the property is really a story and a half if you take a look from the front you can see there's this existing enclosed uh uh forch or sun room which we're going to keep but upgrade and then if you can look at the sides you can see that the center of the house has a second floor up above so if you can see here from the side there's a second floor area up above set back a little bit from the front set back a little bit from the rear also in the rear is a a covered this is considered building coverage a true roof covered area here we're going to be enclosing that adding just this little space here to the side um and then we have a a fous deck that comes out here's a picture of that back structure here as a part of our proposal uh what we would like to do is uh put new siding and new windows in here so that it looks like it's a whole new uh development on the property but there's no other change to this in the back no other change to uh use we not adding heat or cooling or anything like that I'm sorry does no change to the back structure you said or other than uh exterior materials and windows no changes on the inside no uh uh no addition of heating or cooling or anything like that so let me talk about the plan a little bit um the uh what the clients were interested in was to expand the second floor to the front and back so that we can pick up some more space up on the second floor as I said in the rear on the first floor this section here which is a mud room and a halfback that's under the existing impervious roof area and then we're just expanding this little bit here which is roughly 18 square ft to square it off on that end we didn't want to do anything to this side because of the proximity to the side yard set back there and you know we really don't need it so the goal on the first floor was to make this more of an open area right now it's all chopped up it's an old seal it's been in their family you know since Ang's grandparents um but nowhere near what you would consider current Uh current desires and current use for uh people in their homes so the goal here was to open this all up so as you can see on the first floor we have an open Family area an open eating kitchen area stairs to the front we're maintaining that enclosed sun room but we're changing some of the windows there to make it look a little bit more open so it has that true Seashore sunro porch area in the front on the second floor what we've done is we've expanded a little bit to the front expanded a little bit to the back where we had that covered area in the back the second floor expands over that now but that's already counted as building coverage down on the first floor now on the second floor we have two legitimate bedrooms one is a a true primary bedroom suite with its own bathroom some closet area another guest room with another bathroom upstairs a small washer and dryer closet and then the area above the sun room to take a look at that here on the elevation um on another room we're saying it's a bedroom just to be fair that somebody could use it as a bedroom but just like a previous application this is going to be more of a a flex room for Angelo to be able to have a desk in here or a home office area without being in the midst of the whole family area so it's it's not a big house to begin with if you take a look at the existing first floor is roughly 700 sare that does this area in the back here with the addition that goes to 790 the addition the existing second floor that space in here is approximately 430 sare ft we're adding roughly 360 so the second floor will also be 790 ft when you take the combination of the two it's not even 1600 sare ft so as we always try to do on these these smaller properties um we don't want to be greedy we don't want to overbuild we're not looking for a 3,000 foot home here uh a 1580 foot home for a two SL three bedroom home is very appropriate we've got some nice open area here um but we didn't uh we didn't want to take more into the backyard than we needed to to to accommodate that uh the family here but this now becomes more of a typical family home angel can be here with his girlfriend get marri it really is something more than what it is right now which is not not a home that a family would live in the only other thing that we've done of note is off of the bedroom in back then we have um a 6ot by 13 foot pervious deck although there'll be Paving underneath it but it's a perious deck so it's not a fiberblast deck it's not a hard surface or roof there uh that's strictly off of the um be Angelo's bedroom back here so it's more of a private deck it's not a deck where a lot of people are going to gather out there you know Angelo maybe one other person but that's about it I know how much you guys like it when I talk about some of the architectural features so I'm going to touch on that but these kinds of projects are fun we had a great client who was very interested in um having a home that would look like that historic Seashore style that you have so much of in Belmore so that's that's why you see a lot of these features that really add to this a lot of the bracketry some different use of materials here uh some metal roof in front you also see some bracketry here it's also kind of cool for us as nerdy Architects because this is right where briwood comes right into that so you're going to have a view of this as you're coming down that street it really is going to make a nice statement for the neighborhood there uh for the houses you know on either side and these are the kind of homes that you would group for people to do up and down the block and throughout Town um I do want to go over real quickly just some of the other elevations here uh very quickly so you've seen the front elevation here in the back this is where that small deck is up on the second tour you can see how we' kept this back from the side yard will very close um you can see the roof lines there um you see some of this different uh window treatments in the front it's those kinds of things that give that historic feel to it um you know you can see how this got like that 1910 1920s kind of a feel uh which was such a cool era for architecture the heavier trim around the windows and all um sides become more uh more simple because you've got the roof line that comes all the way across I want to note that there's no half story space up above it's purely ad it's not even high enough for that that's just attic area up above um the other thing that we're going to doing here is um if if if you were to come to the house now the um structure needs work there's a lot of areas where the structure is U need some additional support as well from a building code standpoint now we'll be able to bring this up entirely to open the building codes so the the wall here which is closed to the property line will now be a fire rated wall which it currently isn't there's a some window some openings along there we're going to be removing those because they're they're strictly speaking by Cod to close to the property l so that's why when you look at the plan You' would say oh why are all the windows on this side it's a building code issue as well uh we've got the high wind load zone so a lot of the strapping and bracketry and nailing patterns will apply with the building Cod so um kind of excited about this any more presentation yes Mr all right Joe just state your name and business address Joseph K Engineering Services do you swear that the information and testimony your about provide will be the truth the best knowledge to help you go I do and for the record your testifying in Your Capacity as you did the last application as an engineer and planner that is correct and licenses and certifications are current and up to date uh still yes thank you Joe if you could I don't you record Tom a great job describing it um could you give your analysis as a planner um with reference to you you did the plot plan corre correct so my office did prepare the plot plan in this case um we are uh it is an undersized lot 3533 ft y 50 Zone % of the required size more importantly it's only 23 and2 ft wide where the WID and Frontage requirement is 50 so it's less than half of the required WID preexisting and it's developed all around all sides so no ability to rectify that uh surrounded by single family residential the R50 Zone East West and North the Southern Proper line is actually the border with Wall Township properties to the South or wall there there r75 7500 foots on um that existing front dwelling as we indicated a small one and a half story um you know 770 ft of usual space not a substantial home and certainly suffer from some some deferred mains you know need some TLC um that rear structure uh is a uh is noted as one and a half story guest house um only consists of 262 the testimony about the usage of that but by definition this is an expansion of a nonconforming use uh if you consider that to be a a secondary dwelling we are proposing to Simply expand the front dwelling the only changes to the back would be uh cosmetic which it needs so you can see you can see that in the photos um the expansion is modest and over the first floor um it's a small twostory Edition no half story only an attic um we are expanding the only expansion beyond the existing footprint so as uh Mr Peterson indicated there's a rear roofed porch on the back of the property the proposed addition is located in that exact location the only expansion is on the east side of that uh about 2 feet 2 and2 ft uh accounts for 18 square ft of of increased coverage sry how much increas 18 now my office did do the coverage calculations in this case and we do have them all listed uh and unfortun very unfortunately after the last hearing or last case I do have to note there's an error on my calculations uh but for the better um our build existing building coverage calculation is accurate our proposed building coverage calculation we actually included that rear deck in building cover but by definition because it is open slatted no roof it's not building cover um so we note that the proposed building coverage is at 4.78% on the plan that what we're proposing is 3.38% where the existing is 37.87 and that's the increase of 18 square ft which is just that sliver of additional space on the of the addition on the east side so that if you notice on the east side of the plan the proposed addition lines with the outside of the building whereas if you look at the existing condition that existing roof area is actually inset by about 2 ft so that's the only increase in coverage that we requesting um now uh Ted did indicate that we do have to include the deck as 50% coverage and as we testify we are actually putting patio underneath that which we made get 100% coverage that is already accounted for in the impervious coverage calculations because we we had it at in there as building coverage it was already considered impervious so the impervious coverage calculations we show are fully accurate there we are increasing the perious coverage from 5.04% to 65.8% that's 25 ft that 25 ft is that little expansion and we did uh some changes to the walkway where it attaches to the back of the building there is some existing driveway the driveway wraps around the back of the house now some of that is coming out that's why it balances to have only an increase of 25 Square ft so certainly uh those are over what's permitted uh so we're proposing that 38 um 38% building coverage where 30 is permitted but again it's a a very slight dious increase in my opinion and the uh proposed impervious at 65.8% is increasing from 65.4 where 55 is per and again that's a a very slight increase as a result of uh the addition um we do require variances for the setbacks and that's simply because we're expanding inside the set back we're not increasing or decreasing any setbacks we're just building up so the front yard set back in the existing condition is 17.8 ft uh 20 FTS required we're proposing 17.8 that's the addition of the uh the space above the existing front and closed porch uh the sidey guard set back on the west side is 6 in5 ft I'm sorry side on the side west side and how much was that at is5 FT uh and there's a combin side setback of 7.47 Ft 5T side setbacks required and 10t from we're not decreasing that at all we're not impacting at all we're just going up over the existing footprint so that does uh create uh new variances for the volume inside the inside the set pack the only place we get any closer to a proper there is one spot and it's in the back right corner of the addition the existing overhang does not ex right to that corner uh and the property the house isn't exactly parallel to the property line so we do get a touch closer Less Than 3 in um that is the only spot that that we get any closer to a property L the side set back on that side is mostly 6 in it's only in that back corner and we've intentionally set the addition back so that we're more than 3 ft from the property line for fire protection to allow for Windows in that space But it do Just a Touch closer to the property line right there um the guest house uh or the rear structure does have some nonconformities none of those are changing it has a side yard setback of2 ft a combined side set back of 3.6 it also has a rear set at 37 25 all those are not changing again you know brush it up but we're not changing anything with regard to that structure so the key variances here are the very slight the Minimus increases in coverage uh and the uh side side and front step back which are built in the same foot um now as far as the D2 uh variants that is technically a used variance uh but uh uh where special reasons rooted in the purposes of planning are necessary to justify a use varing um the promotion of the general welfare is a special reason most with most embodies use variants uh but this is not a a D1 variant we're not asking for a new use we're asking for expansion um so we're not creating the condition where there's two drawing we're just expanding it and by definition intensifying it however uh there's not a substantial increase in bedrooms here again we're only asking for a three bedroom home here which doesn't have a an increase in parking domain um and because that exists we our position is the site is particularly suitable for this use having two structures on it because it had two structures on it I reviewed historic Aros the structures have been there since uh late 30s early 40s um and in my opinion not have any detriment upon the uh the surrounding area or the public as they do exist there today um the the deviations here uh are the front yard setb back the sidey setback and the slight increases in cover I don't believe there any uh reason those uh particular deviations have a substantial impact upon the use there's not a substantial intensification here where having the two structures and two dwellings would be inappropriate so I think certainly the board can grant the use variants for the expansion as the expansion provides a lot of benefit with very little impact um again the parking does apply the variances can be granted under the C1 criteria for hardships C an undersized lot very narrow so you would expect sard setback variances to be appropriate here we're not decreasing any of those except for the very slight amount at the corner of the one edition by about 3 in and again that's that's the portion of the structure that's F from the proper line um we have appropriate spacing of homes the distance between the homes on the western side is 7.4 ft on the Eastern side 10.6 ft that's house to house the disregarding proper l have appropriate spacing of the nothing is uh Too Close uh to each other the front yard setbacks you can see on the Aral that was uh distributed as part of the package uh all the fronts are generally in line uh the porches there's a little bit of um change between the homes but generally everything's at that 17 to 20 foot front setback which is spr L so I think it's appropriate that that front yard set that um and uh proper to note that the houses on either side are also rather narrow the house to the West is about the same width as this it's less than 25 ft wide the house in the East is a uh is less than 40 ft wide so certainly narrow Lots in the area as well so side guard setbacks I think are certainly appropriate for this area um the application also promotes the purposes of planning it appro promotes the general welfare it promotes Des environment I think that's one of the the biggest improvements here as Mr uh as the architect had indicated as you come down Brier this is a prominent house a prominent location um and having a new home here with this type of aesthetic I think is certainly an improvement to and provides a desire withal environment uh compared to the uh the home that exists there today um we're also maintaining the set back and character of the area and cleaning up this uh prominent house so I do believe this does promote the of planning uh as well as as hardship uh with regard to the negative criteria I don't believe there's any substantial detriment to the public good from this application I don't believe there's a substantial impact to airl open space the homes on both sides are two stories um the surrounding Lots it's not out of character there the spacing Remains the Same as with today um there's uh twostory homes to the rear of this property uh so generally in the uh in in the neighborhood I think the the home will certainly fit well and not be a detriment to to the public good uh there's a large driveway there that exist it's almost 80 ft long it's three compant vehicles reality fits four but by definition free um a three-bedroom house requires two parking stalls even if you count the the rear home as a one-bedroom or even two-bedroom home uh that only adds one additional parking stall by the rsis calculation so three parking stalls are re for the property we have three compliance calls you can actually fit four vehicles the very large driveway no detriment to the public from that perspective also no detriment to the Zone plan order the zoning ordinance as a result of this so I believe the board can grant than you thank you I have questions so uh you the existing Foundation yes but we're going to have to supplement in some areas so um we probably will have some additional interior um but uh for the most part we'll be able to use uh the existing Foundation but we will have to supplement so in other words um right now a lot of it is um the old U 100y old house old block so in a lot of those cases we have to fill it solid uh in some places on the inside we might have some additional peers there um certainly not enough that we would have said tear the house down okay and it's a CW it's a crawl space area parking explain to me the parking it looks like property line goes down to 7t so that's a compant spot the driveway I should say from a from a depth perspective an existing driveway down the left hand side that does extend about 78 79 ft uh from the front proper line to the rear uh that side set back there is um 7.2 ft that is pre-existing um it's not a compant it's not compliant that's that paret on your neighbor if you want to get out the right side door so you really only have one comp um I think the ordinance requires a 9 foot wide so this this driveway is non compliant from W perspective but is preexisting have for um we're not expanding the uh the any consideration on taking down the back having a nice backyard it's not really being used there's no heat there's no a conditioning anything I think the intent is to utilize it as just some bonus space and storage um which is Cly if it's uh if it's not they don't intend to use it as a living space or sleeping space or separate structure separate dwelling I don't believe it has any impact if if it remains as a storage Inus you still end up as a nonant with two two dwellings if you had a big shed wouldn't be the existing down spouts discharge the location change the same location there's no expansion of roof area the drainage characteristics and where's it draining to now right now it drains to gra the gr drains to the rear and then goes to a low spot in the back of the properties to foundations were already talked about parkings on the plan it says 39 ft but over here it says 30 20 something with what on the elevation Max height at say 39.6 I think that's an elevation that's an elevation above sea level not the grade is at 13 ft so okay just want to make sure it's not yeah 4 no it doesn't look like it but you know because over here it says 26 and over there it says 39 and I just wanted to clarify that um I agree with Miss Han on the um rear housee you are not using it as a rear housee it would to me uh whether it's my place or not um we do not like rear houses anymore um their grandfathered so it would sit better with me if you got rid of it is there a comment yes really the aspect of the whatever call the aspect of the building that makes it at least definitionally living the kit IAL to before the meeting I said this this may come up anticipated I anticipated out it it would be viewed just as additional storage or's there's a bathroom that's there's no problem removing the kitchen we'll take that out that completely eliminates any possibility of using it the reason that space is so valuable is we have no basement here we have no storage in the house uh bicycles surfboards Lawn Equipment things like that we need we need something the space exist it was a garage you know a trillion years ago so um so uh we can remove the kitchen that eliminates any chance of it ever being used for anything but we really do need making at a glorified shed U would it not be less expensive to actually take it down you've got electric back there you can put a nice new shed conforming uh which I think you could sh and do for storage better than trying to use can I interrupt real quick you may um so in the previous application you had asked about the rear structure being legal so I looked up this one too um and this one's actually the rear structure is assessed as a sh there's no recent inspections of the inside so there's no record of a kitchen and a bathroom but it was assessed as a single family this being a two family right it's proper it's being assessed now as a single family home a large sheding also come out shed you're not to have PL no bathrooms no kitchen hold on let's try to figure this out what happened recently with the pool about Cabanas though because we have to have a pool I I thought you could have pool okay I if they were putting if there were to be a pool pool they get keep the bathroom no kitchen of course no kitchen interesting you guys have have to make shed that's what showing on the books bring the only I don't understand it's over there now so what's the problem let's let's let's let let's continue with our with so the rest of the board can raise any concerns that they may have as well so you hear it in total and then you could respond back with what you think would be an appropriate um modification to what was originally proposed okay just believe I'm uh some of my questions were addressed so that just to confirm that the mentions that quotequote rear structure 3T off the property line it was to be kep resided it it have to beated need to set back requ correct it's uh it's less thanet on the right side but I believe siding would not change that condition it's not stru BL I see that front is concrete block you know if it's concrete block all the way around I I don't know what I'll follow the I believe it's it's uh the old cinder block well the front is so we're confirming that all four sides are I believe it is yes uh the can make an awfully good shot the the uh steps that the driveway that from the driveway drive so the uh the total width of the driveway is actually the setback from the building the property line is 8 that step probably extends 10 in in okay so Mr K can we get a or beyond the house as Mr Peterson's drawing is very detailed there with a nice Tesla in the driveway can we get a car back there yes or no I mean I pulled down that driveway but you don't see the property line the neighbor we're that would create some difficulty we're have Park I mean we're sensitive to the fact that there may be some work but basically on the plan it's going to have to reflect yeah I certainly understand from a from a variant standpoint we provide zero Park exting mret address ex existing frame also FL yeah there are some areas on the first floor that we're going to have to Sister up rafter floor Jo uh the second floor is the same thing they're okay but now is our chance to take care of some of those dips and things like that you know the technology with Lumber and joy and all that is far different than what it was the first FL perimeter framings generally first yes yes first floor perimeter framing essentially the same except that now we've got a chance for the strapping and the bracketry and the the hold downs and all those things that bring it up at nearest point at it nearest Point front yard set back you're saying side side the side set back at its nearest point on the right is then separate separ separate gas sep no there's no separate they all come from the main and there's going to be no addressing the amount coverage there's no proposed change to try we're not showing any uh on the plan currently there's certainly some opportunity some the walkways at the back structure that we could reduce no further question um just going to approach this situation with the back shed now if you were to take those windows out and put a garage door there you then have a garage and a parking place and in front of that parking place you could have a second or even maybe a third parking place solving the parking issue uh you'd have to take out the concrete on the right side into that shed but putting in something that's more suable maybe those just the tire tracks pav something like that you wouldn't you lose gain and impervious coverage and you have eliminated possibly eliminated paring ISS you have any yeah I don't have to defer the architect about the impacts of the structure from a perfectly layout perspective uh probably correct we about 40t or so from the structure to between the two structures for two and elines drive drive9 my thank you great and um I'm just going to um maybe iterate some points that that had already been brought up but um you know I'm seeing some you know pretty pretty bad shape concrete back here in front of in front of that back structure that's on the ground I mean I would think if you're making this kind of investment improving the home there'd be an intention to make an improvement to the entire property correct and and by removing much of this concrete along what what Mr Craig was referring to um you could have some opportunity to maybe you know Spruce that up as well structur to remain fix it up I don't know about the idea making a garage if that's viable or not that would help with the parking or at least make it for better storage area if that were a garage door we have this conversation all the time people build a garage or counts as a parking spot but then they never use it as a as a parking spot nothing we can do about that but but at least the application would reflect that we're not approving properties that have zero parking yeah right as a matter of fact we turn went down two AG go because no parking was was being provided so you know to try to get some relief on parking at least on paper showing as on parking would be positive and again we're not ignorant to the fact that make be continue use that that not parking side the house highly like that that in favor but we're not approving that usage right because we're not authorized to to say you park there it's not so we can't count that like we can't count you guys it out you canay the neighbor whatever we can't count leg so those are and then again you guys to to to May retain the structure fix it up and make it make it a really nice shed and the bathroom and and kitchen um but I did want to say when you remove the bathroom maybe you want to somehow at least put on the plan an after a shower so you have come back and see us because I would imagine that maybe that that might be getting used as a shower now so you might want to reflect a shower so uh late breaking news uh I talked to the clients and um uh they're completely amendable to just go ahead and convert that back to a garage uh they don't use it for anything other than storage back there for the most part um if you know noticed in the plan we have a new half bath as a part of the house so where people would have used that bathroom back there they can now use this one I think we would like to consider a um an additional 15 ft or something for an exterior shower back there because that is only a half B on the first floor so what we would do is um keep the same shape keep the same size however put a garage door there where it was many many many years ago remove the flooring on the inside um turn that into a garage area uh we will have some storage with that uh whether or not there will be a car park there all the time we're not sure yet we're going to have to see how that plays out but now I a couple of uh you all mentioned um now we also have a pth that we can bring in further in from the property line maybe make it a couple of Tire paths so it's not some uh gigant driveway where that would accommodate U some legal parking spaces so we have no problem with that so move the kitchen move the bathroom have an exterior shower um and extend a driveway with with Tire PS question on if that does at least on the plan show as a garage right if that would be one spot is it is it legit to park aart in front of that garage even though it's in the backyard to count as two spots allow you to expand the driveway 2T over each side of the opening of the garage right but I'm talking about linear like like imagine one part even know they're probably not going to put one one be in and then one is in front of the garage would so that would be a legal spot if I can ask some clarification the uh the driveway strips we do those the center strip still counts as impervious under the ordinance right corre so even if we did strips and made it per in the middle your ordinance counts that in the entire so we do it for say in side I think you like for things to consider at the end of the year because I think a lot of residents leave that strip open in the middle and it's not just for Aesthetics it helps with drainage but if that's counted as as um solid surface then we would be encouraging people to put down full concrete driveways when we really prefer to encourage them to do two two Tire paths with having um permeable uh grass or Surface in the middle so for that being getting char as if it were solid surface is is probably a mistake it's it's it's not the intended it's it's going against what I think the town would prefer by forcing people to count that as as um nonpermeable so I think we talked about this before yeah and I think I don't think we addressed it but but I do think yeah I do think a lot of homeowners you know time again I get the question all time all time even also with with blue stone by the way like blue stone is drink like it drains so for that to be counted as if concrete it just doesn't seem right so okay um we hear what you're saying we're trying to keep up with all of the modifications Mr Penny's going to have to make sure that that gets reflected but appreciate the the movement that you guys are taking there may be room for three cars depending on the space from the garage door fact where you can have 8ot wide yeah we need a total of 40t at 9 foot WID to be compliant parking is 9 20 yeah so if he's got 40 ft from the garage door to where it becomes a stops becoming 8T wide then he has two places out there one in the garage and how many bedrooms in this house boms three would be all required four bedrooms or more that's that's what I'm saying you might not need the parking variant now correct okay I would ask if speaking of Jo and going this with the numers just increase the request on the from 65 to 69 additional so yeah right now the driveway ends at the back of the home so we have to extend the driveway to the garage offset some of that with that walkway that that we would take out but we would definitely the benefit is we're creating compliant part which doesn't exist today the detriment is we do need a little more impervious to make it work we would do the strips uh to offset it but the numbers under the ordinance would require us count it as imp um Mr Craig and I I you're you're coming up with what I think is a good ide if in fact you could you could do the meth tonight and come up to three spots but out of safety you probably say three spots required two provided and then you you'd want a various for one parking spot and and we all know that the intention might be to still continue to use the the lane that goes between the two homes providing there's no objection or fence being put up by the neighbor um but you know that would be a lot more amenable than than you know providing zero yeah and the key there being zero existing to propos where three are requ right and is that correct that three are that's a good point without with the removal of that back structure we only need two one in the that's that's kind of what I was trying to get it's only a three bedroom home so he said four he said four so so if it's only three bedroom home and two require even a four bedroom home requires two and a half under R standard that rounds down five bedom gets really compated five bedrooms believe you four L I didn't go to school for that two cars and a compact that was very uh useful conversation I'd say Okay um so we're going to close the board comments and open up the public comments and or questions if there's anyone here to speak on this application please raise your hand and we'll ask you to come up to the microphone see when seeing no one raise their hand we'll close the public session and um I want to go right to board comments but before we did that Mr KY I just want to see if you can keep it up I I and um can I just make one uh suggestion to how you know put it out there uh sometimes it's uh difficult on the applicant to sometimes make on the Fly decisions on the Fly decisions and calculations calculations and things like that um obviously uh they made some relatively big concessions and obviously it sounds like there's an inclination to approve it with the conditions so we can do a couple of things you could either if you were so inclined to prove it with all these conditions sometimes where say I would like to sort of see some of the details first um sometimes the applicant gets a little nervous about committing to things when they haven't seen it outside of the pressure of all eyes looking on them so we could either depending on what the board pleasure is and what the applicant's pleasure is you could approve it tonight with those conditions it's you know that might be some issues um or you could continue the hearing um and come back and and look at it um and then vote on it or you could continue the hearing and direct me to have a resolution prepared so if they come back and you see the we would um and if you approved it at the next hearing we could adopt a resolution that same night so there would be no real functional delay to the applicants again that just depends on what you want once the applicant applicant wants and those were some things for we're comfortable to move forward the changes are not than theard that we can do that all right I'm glad that you went through that I I don't anyone on board not comfortable with proceeding only I ask is Mr Peterson going to design the garage I'm sorry what's that you're going to do the design work on the garage yes if it near matches the house I'm good with it because it's a beautiful house oh than well we probably won't have as much in way of retry as as I'll try to sell thatal probably won't get away but but in terms of siding and style siding and color and stuff like that it's going to match we go to board comments Mr Kenedy I just have one um thing that I'd like to just have a conversation around um we need to be clear that that um if if this driveway here some someone said what if a fence got put up okay um and if a fence get put up which means that now a car can't get back there right we're not approving the use of that access um if it's if it if it can't be there's no it's not as if the go to the next door Home say the board said we could use that space to come in and out or we could use that space as parking spots or I can use it to get my garage in the back we are not saying that that to your point we as the zoning board have absolutely no authority to Grant this applicant or any applicant the ability to use property that is not owned by the that's and I and I just want to make sure that the resolution reflects the fact that we we are not um in any way shape or form agreeing that that um access that's necessary to get to the backyard and get to the garage with a vehicle um if it reques to go on the neighbor's property we're not approving correct that's that's not within our not within our jurisdiction right but it appears that you can get a car there I I mean I it sounds to me that it's a getting in and out that's the issue but getting getting a car back there you'd be able to keep your tires on your property sounds that way to me that's our understanding okay can I BR totally flustering um over here on the plan you've got property line as for joining be for lot six which is what you're showing is usable property line as per literal interpretation of the deed for lot seven actually goes out several feet so in your deed you're saying you've got plenty of room over there for 10 and 12 feet correct correct from a title perspective we weren sure the surve not sure whose ownership is right so you it would be a court battle before somebody could put the other guy could actually put the fence up that line yes we we would have the right to um contest offense in that moment okay so by your deed you have plenty of parking right there okay realize that that's a good point okay so with that we're going to open up your board comments now Mr O'Neal comments just thank you for the considerations same thing um the proximity to of the house to the property line isn't deter to me unfortunately and uh as much as I can appreciate Mr Peterson's architectural Appeal on the rendering I think a interior probably better suit on the property to truly accommodate the car car park so unfortunately I probably would not be in favor of this appliation I intend V for thank you for and uh my comment would be you know when a 23 and a half foot lot uh got cut on in this town or on this property creates a certain hardship for the future owners to be able to do anything with the property other than leave it as is which would mean you know 100y old or 80y old dilapidated house that would never get modified um in fact it's pretty amazing that you could get a car back there um my assumption would be U Mr that the U neighbor had a problem with what was happening here with it being six in on that property line I would IM that they would be here and they'd be objecting it to objecting to it tonight and I don't hear any objection coming forward um so that I would be in favor with the modifications that the applicant has has seems to have AG to in this application so that Mr K sure so let's see uh the standard uh conditions are comp all promises and representations made tonight and uh as we know that's always our get out of jail free card and it's probably uh never been more important than it is tonight we have a lot of conditions so um we have the 24 month time frame we have the affordable housing obligation contributions if that's required obtaining necessary outside approvals the application Mater change result of those outside approvals need to come back um uh ultimately we'll have a professional certification inst in accordance with the approved plans testimony and resolution creting drain details to be reviewed and approved by the engineer and perpetually maintain the Landscaping now some of the things I'll just start off by saying when we came in here uh we were coming in under the premise that was a expansion of nonperforming use and tax and use variance remember that requires V so Tim if if the nature of the application has changed and there is no longer an expansion of a nonconforming use um Tim and Joe your opinion that we do not we do not need Atty I'll to that because as Mr Al brought up in on the non driveway side of the house and putting on the second floor on that is expansion of non use right there position is by eliminating the garage it's no longer nonform single you're not performing from the property we still need VAR were because we came with theem I understand I understand still expansion the the nonconformity for use tonight I put it out a little bit just in my opening was we had what I call the back house the front house we only allowed one house right so because you had two you have one it's a nonconforming use because we're expanding the front house under the D2 variant we standing in by elimating the back house right we now have one house as application just a straight corre that and we also have um let's see confirmation that the house is going to look like the rendering that was marked into evidence um different perhaps different sighting as as Tom had indicated and let's see I about on'll come back to that in a moment and we're going to uh we Tom said just add uh area up above that was in the back structure back and there's no second pass story or anything either way okay and um we were going to uh or Mr going to revise the plan so as to just correct the uh what the proposed um uh coverage was going to be um uh I guess just and I think this happens anyway but um April just once the resolution is adopted do we get it to the tax assessor or yes okay so that's and uh let's see we're going to have um the modification for the potential paring guance we'll come back to that and we're also going to have the um uh let's see um again Mr chairman to your point no authority to use other others property and um we were going to talk about um uh Rising the plans and so as to portray and confirm that to the extent there were ever was a belief that that back structure was in any way any type of dwelling unit it is not a dwelling unit and the typically have a deep restriction that effect just saying that the applicants are knowingly voluntarily um abandoning any potential clim to that that they have and we're going to um convert it again uh this is not going to be as eloquent as I would I'm ever eloquent but I'm going to be less eloquent than normal you're going to keep the back structure uh put on a garage door um and we're going to remove the kitchen remove the bathroom it's not going to bewell um and I think there was a request to increase the impervious coverage to 69% to allow for the extended driveway so as to create compli parking which doesn't exist today um the garage is going to match the uh home in terms of siding and style and color Mr you had and um uh let's see oh I wrote here Tom if you wouldn't help me out uh if you could in the next couple of days just send me a a better written description of exactly what what it is you know you're doing in terms of that some of these conditions I'll inor I the big thing is the garage Kevin the only other thing to add was that now within what's going to be the garage we we want to consider a a shower just an outdoor shower no toilet no sink um within the within the footprint of that but a shower out there because uh as I mentioned the bath the new bathroom on the first floor in the house was only half fat so there's no uh ground floor shower facility so and I think thank you I think we talked about thetion on the abandonment of of the that structure being even argued that it's a dwelling unit so I've got some work to do but that was a gist of of the conditions are those acceptable Tim to you and your client yes okay and Mr that's acceptable to to the board we can uh vote on that if a board member wants to make a motion to approve the I'll make a motion approve it [Music] no thank you thank you very much everyone [Music] at 8:5 okay [Music] okay here Mr O'Neal here all right the next application is Ken and Annabelle Thorne 508 13th Avenue uh first up is there anyone here who had any questions or comments regarding the sufficiency of the notice they Reed all right we don't let the record reflect the board secretary and I reviewed the notice and found everything to be in order so it would be my opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed tonight and for the final time tonight we're going to swear in Ted bian our construction official and Zoning officer Ted do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent to providing will be the truth to best your knowledge to help you gu thank you and we will Mark into the record what we as a board have before us A1 is the development application package dated August 2nd 2024 A2 is the uh burough of Belmar application checklist A3 is the minor land use zoning permit and that is dated June 11 2024 um that's all actually um oh and dated SL June 22nd 2004 and then A4 is going to be the architectural FL plans and elevations and is dated August 4th 2024 consisting of four sheets and it's prepared by Paulo architect and I think that's it so why don't you introduce yourselves and where everybody am good evening I'm Paulo architect with offices at 9917 Main Street bmar New Jersey thank you good evening Annabella Thor my husband K Thor and I purchas this home in December of um this past year okay very good so we'll swear you in if you could both raise your right hands do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide okay and you know I'm sorry I didn't I'll swear you Ken Thor Ken Thor all right do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth best knowled to help you guys I do thank you y all right and um Mr Chan if you don't mind and Mr chair if you don't mind can I just have a seat can I just get some B information out of the way sure so um uh M dor you and your husband are the owners of the property correct yes we and how long have you owned it roughly December 202 or December 203 um and uh there's uh my understanding is that there's two dwelling units on the property okay a front and a rear structure yes okay and people might be doing some homework right now but just for the the front structure uh is it a single family home yes okay and it's one and a half stories yes and how many bedrooms three and how many bathrooms two and is that occupied yes okay and do you live there or uh no not okay we still are not okay so it's lead to ATT tenant no actually we're not R we okay sum oh second home uh yeah plans are to renovate and then sell our house and move here perfect and then with the rear structure that's a single family structure so to speak yes andage with garage with an attach okay and it's one and a half stories it's one St one story and how many bedrooms one and how many bathrooms one and is that um rear structure occupied no uh so it's vacant okay um thank you so if you can just however you want to proceed with telling the board about your proposal I'd like Mr th basically to describe their plans for the home and uh the reason for the expansion okay please yes so aong vacation ofm and um always dreamed of living here eventually I have three older Sons uh they recently graduated high school our plans are to move down here um after we renovate this house to sell our home count down here um so uh the house in the front is up where we'll be living and right now it's just um a two bedroom with a W so we really wanted first floor living right now we have a three floor house where we've been for 26 years so we U three floors going up and down and want everything to do on one floor home days and then I got the old soned to be able to come and visit and use the rear Cottage I does anyone have any questions yet the Thor asked me to uh modify an existing house U obviously they purchased the um apartment of living unit back with an attached garage which is old structure uh we intend to renovate that but we have a proposal before the board tonight um to rebuild it but uh primarily focus on the on the main house um we'll have a a front porch a second floor open porch and a third floor uh deck from the walk and a recreation area the living the living space consists of a fyer of U the first floor bedroom um the Thorns have an 85y old mom U planning on visiting and the stay overs a dining area family area and a a kitchen area the second floor consist of four bedrooms and uh two baths at a laundry area and the Loft area will consist of uh 500 square ft of open Family area with a deck to the north and a a deck to the rear the deck to the South tonight we're U seeking variances for obviously the the two family uh residences uh we have an an increase of our f um to 56% we're requesting a variance for building coverage to 32% and we're requesting a variance for a combined sidey yard of 14 ft the existing uh the existing residence uh the main residence the existing wall uh to the west side is 9 ft off of the property one so we're basically including that within our within our development we do have a projection of a foot and a half on the second floor um of about 12 square ft uh where a bathroom project the reason for that architecturally is that because we have a long wall here we want to break that up with some detail and articulate that wall so it wasn't just a blank a blank wall our proposal for the for the rear Cottage basically it's um very close to the sidey yards very close to the uh to the rear yard and very close to the uh to the existing Westerly property L it our proposal basically is to reproduce that structure as a new structure and eliminate eliminate those U side yard and rear yard setbacks and create some flow around the around the structure for light and air and also for fire purposes and safety the structure uh currently is the rear home is uh 656 sare ft exactly we're reducing that by 5are ft and adding that to a garage U that will be uh 400 square ft sorry what will be 400 ft the garage the garage yes it's currently 3 375 and basically the reason for it would be storage for bikes surfboards things like that after we have a car parking and the structure that we're proposing would be reconstructed in kind exactly with the configuration the height the sizes and all that except for the 25 square foot that I mentioned um and we have an opportunity basically to build that according to current code um proper fire ratings things like that will create a firewall uh between the garage and the existing uh and the uh and the new Cottage this is is you can see in the upper right hand corner on Z1 phog graph of the existing structure we're basically duplicating that except for an increase in the in the hip roof as it attaches to the garage the garage would be 18 ft high with storage above and uh the basic uration of of the U of the apartment uh will be modified somewhat the existing bedroom currently is to the east side currently the kitchen is to the rear and very close to the neighbor and we're proposing to move the kitchen up for light light in there in the morning and a living area towards the rear that's basically it Mr Arko I just have a question for you because you made a statement and then and then you said something and seemed to not be consistent with the statement that you said okay you indicated that you would you would make the um rear structure smaller to allow light and air so you could go around the property and so forth and then you said basically going to build it the same as what was there so I wasn't really sure what you were getting at because it's can't be the same if you're if you're going to bring it into compliance the living unit would be 25 ft less area that it Curr is right but what about the footprint itself the foot the footprint itself will be reproduced in Comm exactly as it is now how how could that be you're showing on this drawing you're showing three feet on each side and 5T to the rear and on and and where it is now on on the existing it's it's showing clearly less than 3et on the one side I can't even get a measur on that side it certainly doesn't look like where it now we're taking we're taking square footage out of the garage I'm squeezing that is currently 15 and2 ft wide we're going to reduce that to 13 ft wide and we're reducing we're reducing the uh the cottage by a couple feet so I can achieve a three- foot setback on either side so it will be changed and knock it down and go well it would be modified somewhat yes okay because you said it wasn't going to change so well the basic configuration all right okay all right so all right settled you're changing it it's going away and you want to put a brand new yes okay there's only 3 ft on the side to the side and we're 5T side setback would we needed yeah well I can achieve 5 ft uh on on this side it's a house it's still three feet even if it's even if it's used as and it's on the PO is the to family okay thank you okay I I I I didn't mean to interrupt I just was I was confused because you are actually changing the the location and size of the footprint yes we're reconfiguring that so that we can achieve those side yard set rear yard got okay we've reduced U we reduced the current site I don't if you've had opportunity to look basically you see theum back here we're tearing all that out using perious papers um we have more than enough room for um for parking any no I my presentation okay we'll open up the questions start you okay you're right like me to start the other yeah the the height of the garage I mean that looks like high uh like if you look at the the peak part and then the Gable end is that all storage space up there yes the top of this is right that here or here yeah this is the roof of the cottage it's just atic space have pardon me have a pull down stair that's it no living space whatsoever no stairs okay that was one question the existing roof height is uh is 14 ft on the existing Cottage um we're proposing 15 1/2 ft a small increase here I mean I could lower that also to the original like you said you're not impacting air flow and everything the size of that whole roof going across like that it's just huge to me well this this is the size this this is the size of the existing roof except it's a gable roof yeah single story this is two the AC it's it's not too 18 ft from the peak of the garage to the other end this is an 18 ft here this is this 15 15 and A2 and and this is 14 that's all I got well I mean we could reduce it back to the original 14 ft entirely it was just been for exra storage because they don't have any storage in the floor plan this in this house so we suppos you pull downstairs just so they can get up there and put Christmas decorations or something up there and how many one bed one bath one yes um on Ted's uh denial number one is expanding of a non-conforming use adding an apartment over the garage is this changed since this was written yes we originally had submitted to Ted a proposal where we were going to take the cottage and build it over the garage and that you pointed that out we got the denial so we decided to stay with the original the original Cottage on the one level um so you're okay because number two on Ted's denial was you were proposing 20 ft so you also went back down to the 18 so right okay um is there Ted a rule uh nonconforming back Cottage uh when you are you allowed to tear it down and bu rebuild it or once you tear it down you lose it you come here you come here for VAR okay we can give the variance to do this we can give a variance to tear it down and rebuild it slightly different uh well once you tear it down you know would have to conform to the ordinance VAR yeah but by doing by moving it and three footing on either side and all of that then you're getting the different variants but you're but that my question is very simple I think you can tear it down in that variance that we're issuing and put it back again what because you already have it if you give the variance if we give the VAR the VAR okay actually had discussed this at a prior meeting a couple months ago with a different application where we were a foot and a half of the property line and we were talking about the foundation and all that we could basically rebuild the house and accommodate a larger setback on the side so our proposal is based on that thinking that we might be able to eliminate some of these real tight positions like 1.6 ft like that another one is 2.1 ft you know in the setbacks I have no I mean cuz the main house not a problem but it all becomes a problem up here when we're talking about the cottage with back house I totally understand yeah I mean I don't mean to come out of left field with this it's just that we thought that for life and safety and all that that would be a better application and we could bring Cottage up to code right now the structure has to be has to be rebuilt which we're permitted to do um as as it is but this is the first time somebody's in my recollection saying take it down and put it back better and so while that is a plus I just wanted to make sure that once you take it down we were allowed to do that yes so I'm I'm good now I hate to be the won lock nice drawings it's a nice looking house uh question for Ted Ted standard one carage in town what is the height of that what is Theiss height 18 and the rear dwelling there is 18 no the rear the rear dwelling right now is 15 and2 ft and a garage can be 18 yes and then the space above the garage there is what P down attic we have a yeah we have a couple Dormers here we'll actually have a set of stairs towards the back of the garage where we can access the storage above like that but we have two Dormers here maybe make it look a little larger set back and like I said we we can reduce the size of the roof the height of the roof um the storage above the Gage the length of the garage there no it's about 3/4 of the garage 34 because of the stairwell that you're proposing to go off correct they're shown here yes um crawl space for the rear is that what it's going to be built on oh yes yes and existing is a slab it just SL it is a separate utilities separate gas separate water separate electric separate yes and then proposing I guess underground utilities to get to the rear path yes and um your reason for knocking it down is it the condition of it or is it to try to eliminate Varian I'm sorry for just focusing on the rear because the front house is lovely but no it's a combination of both speaking with with Kenny talked about would be nice to be able to rebuild it new you know to code things like that rather take a pieces apart insulation rewire and all that the right now is many two and a half two and a half and you're proposing a no one one and a I was existing one and a half St existing one and a half and what you're proposing is full three stories uh no it has it has a loft on on the third floor that would be 500 sare ft half two and a half story I just thought I heard that it was okay that's all I got any questions okay and U I'm kind of in the same camp as Mr Luben where I I don't recall an application where a rear housee has been torn down and fully reilt um but I I'm torn between saying just renovate what you have there or tear it down and bring it into compliance as you're suggesting so talking out loud here I don't have any questions um I I do I'm sorry I do have a question are you are you certain about these lot coverages because it does seem to be a lot of oh so you're take you're going to eliminate some what is currently pay asle and put lawn in its place yeah okay yes because it did seem to be a lot of a lot of the lot seemed to have a lot of uh patio and asphalt coverage on it very little uh uh permeable surfaces anywhere all the calculations I did myself they're all accurate okay and so everything going in is going to be permeable and you took a half 50% credit on those yes okay I don't have any further questions so with that uh anyone here uh from the public uh yes just warn in name address representing owner 54 13th Avenue so we'll just swe you and spr that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent providing will be the truth best of your knowledge to help you guide thank you okay my concern is your coverage and I know you talk about how much grph you have so little Now is it going to be enough that you'll have to have somebody come and cut it for you or are we looking at that small plot like in the front and in the back I think the I don't have the plans I mean I did go to look at them but the table was a little small so I couldn't stretch so the front setback the front property size would be remain the same the backyard was paved the whole thing's pav the whole the whole thing was PID I'm a we love grass so we we would take out as much of that black pop as as necessary so we have more grass than anything that driveway was paid like that when we purchased the place and I believe that was an issue with something they had where they had to tear up the existing driveway so they removed the existing driveway and then they repaid the entire property so it's a little bit of grass in front of the cottage and then they did that stone area with the pavers behind the immediate house so the answer would be would be be getting rid of as much black top as possible and I think if you look at the drawing from Ted or from uh from Paul you'll see how much is grass where the driveway will remain I think the house is great and I I'm very happy to see improvements in the area yeah but to the board two plots away is a flag lot with three buildings on it if all of them to the east of you okay right there's a small a house on very small lot you address the board with your comments with you so right so it's the one house so by allowing them to tear down the house just imagine if these other people come and ask for the same thing because are old and then it's going to be kind of a policing issue on how you control that they're building the same thing and so I'm concerned about tearing it down and putting it back up I appreciate old but I live in a over a hundred year old house and um you know renovation is possible so I hope you that into consideration thank you thank you anyone else here from the public on this application no okay with that we'll go back to the board for for me okay front house I'm fine with the back I'm not so fine with I'd rather see a two-car garage or something back there than knocking down and and rebuilding Cottage thank you um exactly the same um why I asked the question before um one you know many of us I don't but many of us have rear houses their good income in some cases their family in some cases but I question again uh each each is use each of our applications stand upon themselves so there's no uh if you tear it down allowing the next guy to tear it down because they do stand alone but I am concerned about that no not all thank you appreciate um the existing house just one more time make for my notes the front dwelling is three bedrooms two BS correct and you're proposing five bedrooms five bedrooms Four B plus the plus the right the yes four full B and then the rear Cottage is to remain that's correct preexisting right and then just for the driveway calculations because I overheard the the home owner all of the asphalt is coming out and being replaced with perable P all of it every bit every bit including the um I don't see the need comment on I don't see the need to knock the rear blowing down I see the need to fire rate it and bring it as much as possible we're more than willing to do that um and personally myself I'm not a fan of the Loft area above the garage uh even though it's it's not a loft it's it's unhabitable space but I prefer to see continuous roof kind of uniformity to a standard rear structure or standard garage um I'm open personally to either renovate the existing structure or remove and is my opion for score would would it be acceptable to have a pull down U stair in the garage for Access something like that the height of that the height of the roof then just go over for this is Tony's opinion not that of the board the height of the roof for the rear structure is 15 ft straight across at its highest point 15 and A2 yes 15 and A2 yeah garage can go 18 yeah I can reduce the height of if a garage can go 18 then I personally don't have a problem with 15 and a half you know I think because when you put your rendering up it looks like a giant Ranch but that's it's it's 655 Square ft living space What's the total square footage of the whole the whole show there garage and the garage is 400 square ft 1100 ft B plus or minus right right I'm sorry sitting in the garage ft and and the and the cottage currently is 656 Square ft pardon me currently the garage is 375 sare ft and the cottage is 650 sareet so th000 Square fet yeah plus or minus Mr Kenny do you need the exact I'm sorry so I'm just saying 375 ft is the garage yes existing 656 is the college thank you so in total garage and habitable area is a th000 square ft correct so those are my comments uh I'm personally myself not speaking on behalf of the board um I'm more inclined to see the existing structure renovated and brought fire but certainly understand the willingness to bring it within the property setbacks increase open space around the property stoping on neighbors we're more than we're more than willing to renovate the ex structure as those are my coms I didn't have any questions just now the uh you guys were turned down on the back structure for being 20.6 that's been changed now to 15 yes we originally had had proposed to t a uh an apartment above the garage and that's where the height came from and all that we've eliminated that course my comments go I kind of like the idea of taking the whole thing down and bringing it into compliance with side yard and backyard and all that and I understand how much nicer it is to work in a brand new structure than it is to work in a renovated structure I'm kind of in favor of it so my intention is to vote for the project I'm sorry I disagree might I kind of like to see us adhere to the master plan if we can and we have an opportunity now to adhere to the master plan we don't need this is a five-bedroom house this is not a small home this is a large home um and I I don't see the need for the re structure at all personally so I I certainly understand why you get a gage you need that's a five bedroom house with four bathrooms in it there property I understand understand my thank you and um as for myself um I do believe that you've got plenty of uh space to design the front house to accommodate all of your needs without necessarily having to um rebuild the whole College iy to be a garage with a workshop or something like that in the back as opposed to it being the second dwelling I I I think um to to to to build this big in front and then completely rebuild brand new in the back is probably going too far in terms of um you know there's nothing being given back here and the hardship isn't being proven as to needing to knock down that rear structure so would in favor of what's being proposed here in favor of knocking it down or I'm I I probably would be of like mind where Mr alme was where um retaining what's there is probably less problematic than completely knocking it down and building brand new then that'll be our proposal I'm I don't change it on my say so alone we' got seven members everybody has an opinion and I don't know if that concession would be acceptable to the rest of the members okay but I would be more in favor of doing that than I than than than completely knocking down and and even with that I I'm still torn about this whole back uh back house thing because uh I agree with Miss brazelle uh the only mitigating thing that I have here is that you have 166 ft of depth right this is 100 foot dep I'd be I'd be absolutely hard now um with 166 ft of depth I'm probably a little more open minded toward the structure so that's where I stand on so that I think um you know you have to counsel with your clients you've heard from the board already um and and um you know you need five out of seven VES um the way that this works and again it was I think it was just the last meeting had this conversation maybe the one before but regardless um if if you go to a vote and it gets turned down you've got to come back and refile and it's got to be significantly different where if you abstain or if you defer on a vote you come back with modifications um without having to start the whole process well I think I can speak for my clients when when I say we are we are permitted basically make some structural modifications or improvements to the structure as it is now and that would be our proposal you're talking about the re structure can I something I thought I think the original plan to rebuild the back Cottage was because on the east side it's only a 17inch clearance between the existing structure and the property line and on the west side it's only like in Ines so I think the idea of redoing the existing it would be making it smaller to meet the 5 foot set back in the back and three foot on the north and west side that was the idea I know but as as so we could rebuild Mr bian said though once once you once the decision's made to knock it down putting it back becomes an issue a different issue than simple renovation I would have been okay with we we were we discussed it was okay to renovate what was there we just thought it was better to if we rebuilt the existing foundation and would then comply with what is um we thought it would appeal to the board because of the setback rest don't you're not you're not changing you're not convincing me there's seven members here I wanted to just set that five people to to concur whether whether it's it's putting the new structure there or renovating the old structure um and I think you know board members have expressed their opinions so I think you guys need to now make a decision on you know what what you like to do well we we had we'll stay with the with our original concept and basically just renovate the existing building as it is but I have question but again I don't know whether or not that's going to anybody's up here's opinion I don't either may I ask question think you don't the answer that yeah true so we we have a third choice we can say we're not we're not allowing for the first structure if you intend to renovate that rear structure correct right that's right okay I want right an expansion of a non-conforming use use variant so yes um so it's not an replacement or it's they still need corre that's right so so In ry's Vein my question and I it's a harsh question um in the way the town is going with rear houses and you're putting up a 4,000 square foot oh it is an oversized lot you don't need the extra storage uh do you need the rental from that Cottage would you be willing to reded to a single family home and yes you can have the garage back there but eliminate that Cottage and go to uh and get rid of that um pre-existing of a two filment that's my question so getting rid of the rental designations like we could still have the cottage no get rid of the cottage and have a garage see you you have a lot that is a two family lot so you have two structures that you can rent put mom back there uh have a fight and go back there whatever but you have two residences the um town in the burrow in general with the master plan is no more so they're grandfathered you are grandfathered it can stay if you do nothing to it it can stay if you fix it you need our records but my question is very blunt would you be willing to get rid of and and change your deed with that 4,000 foot yes it's a large Rod I think I said that before and you can have a one probably two-car garage back there up to 18t but no residence the contet basically was to renovate the cottage first create the cottage so that they could live in the cottage and enjoy the the year while they're working on the house and then the cottage would become room for the kid and the family not necessarily we actually assumed when we purchased the house we assumed a renter but um we no longer have that rental because we really want but we but we can't limit that no I understand but I'm just saying we had in there once we had I think so can we eliminate the rental consideration in our application future owner wouldn't have that restriction either you'd have to abandon the two family use yes what sir as long as it remains a two family use you you can't offer restriction and whatever you guys promise some future owner and I know you'll say you'll never intend to sell it but some future owner could could take it and rent it so if we gave up the rental can abandon and they sell the property somebody could always go back and rent that property oh no they couldn't oh you can abandon the rental on your lot period the second dwelling the second doesn't mean it's a run right you can abandon the second dwelling on your that's what that's get rid of the cottage oh all right so if we can't keep the cottage corre and get rid of the rental now you could you could live in the cottage as is while the new house is being built no why because they man get approval the new house well we can give it then then it comes down after ask build cover 31% per that includes so I don't give a sh 8000 31% everybody their opinion shouldn't be speaking on of use the term we a lot we don't like back necessarily some of us do we had I Mr chairman respectfully ask you to carry this case okay uh I just want to be clear and we can certainly grant that but for purpose of carrying it would accomplish what there's a decision to be made yet and you have time for that decision yeah you should yeah not yeah you're not going to be forced to have to make a decision like that tonight I just want to understand um carrying it if it's it's so you could think of plan C perhaps is that so so can I ask what our options are what would our options be if we went to a vote if we went to a vote tonight right and you get turned down you'd have to come back with a completely different plan okay for the cottage and the front house or would that the whole it it we view it in its totality right so maybe you could get more in the front if you don't do the back house like like there be options that you can do um but right now I mean I again I'm not speaking to the other board members but my sense is seeing like there's reluctance on a number of the board members and I think it's more than two um that both the size of the front house in combination with knocking down and keeping the back house has created problems for some of the board members and so I think you know any effort to try to keep the back house I don't know that you'd swing you know um or you know to two of the four who seem to be opposed I'm not sure where I stand I don't know what what group I stand with right now but U and Mr chairman could I just say a few things sure so uh and just again on top of what EV all said because everyone's made excellent points and uh so you need a use variance they call a use variance or a d variance and uh and you need some variances but under the law the use variance standard is quite high it's it's a stringent High legal standard with good reason and should be because you're uh expanding what a use that's that's non-conforming and uh so uh as was indicated you have some certain rights when you're lawfully pre-existing and and uh with the use variant standards you sort of heard it in the some of the earlier applications there's a POS criteria and a negative criteria and the positive criteria means that you sort of advancing some of the purposes of the municipal land use law some of them are to have appropriate spaces and appropriate locations for a variety of uses including residential uses or desirable and good visual environments and you also have to satisfy the negative criteria which is you have to prove to this board that your relief can be granted without causing substantial detri to the public good again and that's not unique to you that's every use variance um application or variety thereof and also what the board usually considers is what represents better overall zoning alternative for the burough of Belmore and I do appreciate and I would encourage you probably to take some time uh because as I said the last time it's sometimes hard uh to make spur the moment decisions if you haven't really thought about it and I want you to and everyone on the board wants you at least understand what what you're doing what the implications are and and it is to give up a uh a second dwelling unit it is there consequence of that it would be forever and you would knowingly voluntarily abandon that use and sometimes people might not want to do that sometimes people might want to do it so you need to evaluate all that with your attorneys and Architects and things like that and you can ultimately apply for whatever you want I mean it's up to you uh you've heard this board much more than many other boards tell you sort of um what they're thinking and what they're what they like what they don't like what their questions are um sometimes in other boards you don't hear anything and then you take a vote and it's all no and you're like wait a minute I would have done something so this board gives tries to give uh some some feedback again it's not nothing counts until the vote but I think you can come up with you can come back uh and and have the exact same proposal right at the next meeting if you don't want to make any changes and let the vote proceed however it proceedes if you uh you know and anyone can file a lawsuit if they're agreed by the decision uh you can make modifications to the plan if if you want um or you can just you know some something in between I I mean I don't know the board as Mr chairman indicated the board votes on the application that's presented so um you've heard there's a wide ranging opinions um and that sometimes makes it harder to deal with but at least you you heard the opinions so Mr chairman again I I think your caution was was very Council was very well so um youd like to um be heard at a future meeting I think that's that's already said may I ask would it be possible to get um a feeling from the from the board if we were to reduce the size of of the front house U would that have any effect on people's opinion you know it wouldn't affect my opinion as Mr Kennedy reflected I I I think we go down a dangerous road if if if anyone individual is is is um maybe oversharing opinions or how they feel I mean I you know my op it wouldn't affect my opinion but again we're not we're not taking strob Pooles of the board we don't do that okay um I think you've heard from the board members and their concerns about their structures um you know I I don't know that any of these board members need to defend their votes in favor or against the application they reach an opinion they voice it and they're entitled to make that vote if I agree with it or not it does not matter and we appreciate it very they could turn it down for reasons unspecified um and I don't think I'd want any of these board members to have to defend why they would vote a certain way and and and what criteria it would take them to get them to change their mind I I don't I wasn't asking for a defense on I know I I I just want to maybe just make sure because maybe we do overshare and maybe we need to be a little more careful about about getting too specific about what would take for me to change my mind feel about this application so um I wish I could give you more than that but um if you want to um adjourn to a future meeting and come back with modifi proposal Miss H you'd like to speak yeah just you just asked if the front house was reduced okay would that make a difference um what if you reverse that question what if the front house was increased and just had the back as a garage would that make a difference to youly that yeah we really wanted the second structure for there who was 87 years 86 years old and we just felt that that was more accommodating for her if she know for her to live with us but you know I guess that's something we're going have to decide so okay all right so I guess get on the agenda for future meeting meeting is November 21st or December 19th so like to pick one of those all right so what we're going to do as is standard uh we're going to ask you do you uh consent to extend the time frame within which the board has to act on matter okay thank you and that's a very standard request and what we're going to do um we're going to carry this to November 21st 2024 at 6:00 pm. uh without the need for any further public notice so you don't have to do the noticing again and again I would encourage you to speak with your architect and and attorneys and about the legal standards and things like that so Mr chairman if we could have a motion to carry this application to November 2st 202 [Music] motion okay um I'd like to request um for the executive session for a few minutes sure once the once the room clears so what we'll do is we'll have a motion to go into executive session for the purpose of discussing either pending liation