good evening everyone and welcome to the board of adjustment Township of Berkeley Heights we're located at 29 Park Avenue here in Berkeley Heights this is our public meeting tonight tonight is July 25th 2024 we have 7M on the clock please note that this meeting is being held in conformance with all regulations of the open public meetings act adequate notice of the meeting has been posted on the town website and sent to the newspapers of record the agenda has been posted on Town Bolton board and the website here in Municipal po at least 48 hours in advance of this evening's meeting the agenda items will not necessarily be heard in the order listed and the meeting will not continue substantially past 10:30 p.m. may have a roll call Regina Please Mr Sullivan present Mr Kell here here Mr Ringwood send his regrets Mr Sylvester here Mr Pera here m wust m Mr Degan Mr tourus senses regrets okay let's take care of a few housekeeping items um we do not have any formal resolutions for applicants this evening there was a concept review during the June session and another session was carried uh moving on to the adoption of minutes from June 27th Mr kello was not here correct Mr did you have an opportunity to review the minutes from I was not here uh Mr Sylvester did you have an opportunity to review the minutes from June 27th I did I found them to be in order thank you and I have a second by Mr Delia please second and all in favor that are eligible and it sounds like it's only three of us is that okay yes thank okay moving on to resolutions this evening resolution designated The Firm of neglia group as a Consulting engineer for the application for Michael and Deborah Gil Bowski at 20 Overhill way we have a resolution available and may I have a motion on resolution for negli group Mr C will make a motion to accept and may have a second by Sylvester I was not here on May 23rd the first meeting for that so I don't think I can I me just for the engineering contract it's not for the ACT this is an engineering contract but if you don't feel comfortable may have a motion by Mr per I Mo second the motion and a roll call on the resolution designated The Firm of negate group regarding 20 Overhill Mr Sullivan yes Coello yes Mr deia yes Mr Sylvester yes Mr Pera yes West Austin resolution designating The Firm of Dempsey Dempsey and Sheen as interim Board of adjustment attorney for the period August 1st 2024 through December 31st 2024 uh Mr Kell may I have a motion on resolution designating dumpy dumpy and sheim make a motion to accept the resolution a second by Mr deia I'll second and a roll call on Dempsey Dempsey shenan yes Mr KOB yes Mr deia yes Mr Sylvester yes yes Miss West Augustin yes thank you we will move on to the formal applications for review this evening uh a formal note we are carrying to August 22nd 2024 with no further notice C application 24009 Mrs Jason gooa located at 32 Liberty Avenue block 1805 Lot 4 in the R15 Zone this is a project off of planfield Avenue halfway up if there is anyone here for that application this evening that application is formally carried to August 27 202 moving on to our our first application this evening application 2412 Philip and relle Bren located at 33 cellan lock 507 lock 15 this is on the west side of town off Park Avenue and looks like we have the family joining us we have two nice seats here watch they're on Wheels and we have looks like an architectural professional will also be represented thank you and for the record I did review the notice it was sufficient as to form content and timeliness so the board does have jurisdiction to hear this case thank you very much uh we accept uh this application and if you can please introduce yourself my name is stepen Hawkin I'm a licensed architect my license is current and in good standing I am a partner in ahm architects in Milbourne New Jersey um I presented in front of numerous boards in chadam Summit I done a lot of projects in Berkeley Heights but I've never had to go for a variance and um there other qualifications you want to hear about okay H and you you said you're licensed in the state of New Jersey in good St yes can you tell us the letters in your firm what what ahm alberg Haw Miller I'm not H you're the H thank you very much for joining us this evening and folks would you like to introduce yourself this evening we have a microphone we're going to slide it over to you so you don't have to p brodkin and Rachel brodkin and for the record your address 33 Campell Lane thank you very much for joining us this evening is your architectural professional going to take the lead for you this evening thank you why don't you tell us a little bit about the project and what the triggers were for the need for an appearance before the Zoning Board of adjustment but if I could just swear you in first would you all Raise Your Right hands do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you sorry about that go ahead thank you so um the broad kins have uh a daughter that lives in Summit and grandchildren and they lived in New York and they looked for um houses for a while and as you all know probably that the market is kind of crazy and so they found the house that they liked um it was a little smaller than they they wanted but they saw some opportunities um it is a ranch house which is good for them so they don't have to go downstairs unfortunately um the if it' probably be good if I show you the plan I don't know and we're going to call that into is that the same plan that was submitted okay so we don't have to mark it the house is a um it's cited on a lot that's a a pie-shaped lot so the front of the lot is narrower as it as it goes back um and what they wanted to do if you look on I believe it's A3 you'll see on the existing plan there is a primary bedroom at the right rear corner of the house that really doesn't have any closet space so one of the things that they would wanted was to have a a nice closet for their primary bedroom the house had been previously uh partially renovated the bathrooms are the kitchen's newer so they didn't want to tou touch them so what we did there is we pushed the bedroom back and if we look on the left side you see we put a walk-in closet it's it's still a a modestly sized bedroom but a closet um on the the other thing that is um issue was they didn't have a lot of gathering space they have a large family they have holidays and so they wanted to have a a great room space so on the left side of the house we extended it outward uh to provide a continuous great room in the space um Additionally the existing house had no way to get to the yard from the main level so in order for them to get outside they had to go down to the basement and go out to the basement so another thing that we did is we added a deck in the stairway down to the yard off of the kitchen yeah the great room that's presented is that in place of an existing two St garage that exists there is no I'm I'm going to go to the basement now and explain what happened in the basement if you go to A2 which is the page report there is a side entry garage very undiz that's the only garage another thing they wanted they wanted to have a two-car garage so underneath that great room we we built the two-car garage and instead of getting a side entry garage it was now a fun entry garage because we didn't have enough room to make the turn to get in on the left side of the house um and then under the Edition we just made a basement area for them and then the right side of the of the basement uh is currently unfinished so we we finish it we put a bathroom in there and we also put a uh window well for an egress window that could be an overflow bedroom but it also would improve the quality of light into the basement if you look at A4 you'll see in extending the house we mirrored the cable that's facing the front of the house roed the house to the left and we're going to uh raise the front entry by two steps because in the first floor when you come into the house there's this little odd little uh recessed area that we're going to raise up so the house is all on one level um and then um in the back as you can see we added the deck with the stairs down um so the important thing is in doing this because of the the shape of the lot um we're not asking for any kind of overage and coverage for building or for lot but because the the lot uh Narrows towards the front um it it has triggered a few things the existing house is closer than the allowable setback the allowable setback is 50 ft the existing house is a little over 42 ft so the new part is going to be with that with the exception of we're adding a front Portico just to have a to improve the Aesthetics on the front of the house and the roof of that Portico is going to encroach a little bit further than the existing house um in addition to that um again because the the lot narrow the com even though the the garage meets the setback minimum of 12 feet the combined setback of the right side and the left side together um require variance for the combined setback um and then lastly uh the driveway at the very end of the driveway we closer than 5 ft from the property line um it's it's closer than 5T in property L the very front but if you look at the existing survey which is A1 you'll see that the entire driveway the property line and what's going to happen now is there be more grass now between them and the neighbor because that whole area which is all paved now is all going to be a vegetated area so and and the now we'll just have a driveway that goes straight out to the street how big is the poro poro is it's 6' five by about 5 30 yeah but and that's 42 Mark but the rest of the house is at what um the the rest of the house if the proposed is at 40.8 42 the house is Curr 42 the house is currently at um 42.9 and the ptical is 40.8 so with the new resolution or or change to the zoning law does this does do they even need variant for that not for the Portico but for the addition of the garage because the is less than what's being on here is the front setback is now at 40 and it was 42 but with the new change to the to the law to our zoning ordinance right you can extend 5 foot out in full width of the house without doing a variance now I don't know if that that's 5 foot off 50 which is the standard setback or just 5 foot from current setback I I actually read that and I was a little confused so I figured I might I should just put that yeah it's it's new and it's it hasn't been typed up so you'd have to go look for it but we changed it because having someone who comes for just a ptical was wasting everybody's time and I think that the variant should be from the 42 more not the 40 right if it's then he wouldn't even need it because it's less than a five right but he they would need the variance for the addition over the garage corre not a variance for the ptic well that's that's just one of them yeah that's what I'm saying I mean not that it's a big deal but if that was the only thing I probably would have had a further discussion with this on it was all part of this we've we've run into the situation where people had come before the board for a front ptical and wiped out the house behind and that's we find out when we're shopping and Stop and Shop what happened and we'd rather know from mup I'm going to ask the question because I do every time are you planning on splintering this house all the way down to the foundation and redoing it or are you just renovating we're we're going to leave as much of the house as possible and we're going to match since you phrased it that way what does that what does we are leaving as much of the house as possible well um where we're breaking through we're going to have to open up some walls um we're going to redo the front walk because we're changing the the elevation of the front entry but as far as the bedrooms the bathrooms kitchen it the house will remain intact absolutely okay because again to my point sometimes homes are strict to the foundation right behind the ptic Cod that we approv that it does not sound like that is the case cor just a housekeeping note if this vir to advance just on page one of the application um it says 22 and 1/2 ft proposed it's 12 and A2 ft proposed so you have to make that adjustment on on on this application here okay it says 22 and a half per and your your 12 and a half proposed on the one side okay you see it I don't have that in front of me right now here wanted you can take a look at it this is what was submitted to the town so you'll see here that it just says 22 and a half proposed and it's 12 um that's the combined that's the combined setback that's the addition of the two got 12.51 and then it's the font is very small yeah that's the one of the the combined percentage varing on the right and left side and um to the architect's Point regarding the the driveway yes you know it's it's a fingernail at zero and then it works it's all the way back to 12 as we taper following the P the the triangle gets larger and creates a larger separation from the neighboring property I have no question okay can you tell us a little this is remaining a single family house one family that will recreate and enjoy holidays together one Kitchen in the house correct okay and can you tell us about the exterior improvements about the house what type of material you'll be using for sides match Etc um the existing house has white vinyl siding we actually had a discussion about it and we're going to match the existing siding however at we're going to um if you look on a three there's going to be some Cosmetics changes and that the front door is going to be raised we're going to do a new modern front door and then we'll have a garage door to match and then we're adding some panels under the right side windows just because they're so shallow we want to give a little more balance to it so those panels are going to be added on the existing Windows just just for aesthetic reasons and uh since we're on page eth gr and just just for a point of clarification can you can you flip your poster to A3 as well A3 and we'll see on the left side of the page you have great room kitchen dining room right okay now if I go all the way to the right side of the page I have dining room living room kitchen is that the same kitchen or are they are they two Kit the exact same kitchen the exact same what where what's the living room in the past okay is now going to be used at the dining room and then the addition starts at if you look at the bottom is 21 ft it it's just a little bit misleading and I needed a clarification that that it's not a second kitchen orig the kitchen is actually relatively new so they wanted to maintain it uh and you've got a single room in the back planed as well single story Edition um on in the um in back of the uh existing primary bedroom we're just extending it back that's one story with the basement yeah it's all going to be a ranch house and is a patio is it a Raaz patio or a paper patio proor um on underneath the deck we're probably going to do some kind of papers CU it's hard to get anything to grow there so okay so that counts towards impervious coverage we do that okay and that Cann be used for storage right if if there's a slab down there and you know you got a ping pong table for a little while that's okay it's it's not that we're blue tarping all the seasonal items back there because it looks like you do have a shed in the back right and we also um we put a door into the back of the garage so that they can bring their cushions and different things and put store in the back of the garage um I am going to open up the meeting to members of the public right now I have a motion Mr coell I'll make a motion to open the meeting to members of the public I have a second by Miss West Second the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comments regarding BL 507 lot 15 on Campbell Drive seeing no one I'd like to make a motion to close the meeting to members of the public Mr coell make a motion to close members of the public I have a second by Mr Sylvester second meeting is now closed to members of the public regarding this application uh board comments Miss West no I don't have any for Mr cell none thank you Mr Sylvester none thank you Mr per uh nothing at this time Mr Jam no I think are there any um trees or ornamental plantings land to be removed project no fortunately by way the driveway is okay we don't have to touch any of the trees okay looks is there is the hedra of the neighbors parcel looks like the majority of the HED it curls towards the house up at the top but it looks like the majority of the hedro is the neighboring par we put and are there properties behind you or is there water behind you another another set of cies because I know this is a body of water that me and just through um what's interesting about this for members of the board we you're on a curve in the road on Campbell oh no it's right before your home is not on a curve in the road okay if you look at the survey that was provided the house next door is about 4 and a half ft closer to the right of way than the subject person sometimes planners will take that into consideration just showing the scheme of the neighborhood so that the fact that your neighbor's house is closer to the road somewhat helps you uh with that said I have no further comments um let's talk about um conditions storm waterer management will be required any lighting proposed that would be downward directed or otherwise shielded well just you know maybe a light at the garage but we'll comply whatever whatever lighting or there is okay and then as far as any debris or construction material it'll keep that neat and orderly on the property so it looks nice perfect thank you if the dumpster fills if you can have it CED away and you're welcome to order another dumpster by way of permit or the zoning official but we just don't like any of the matter about your parcel in the wind blown for form towards the neighboring we appreciate the respecting the neighborhood and uh trees right it doesn't sound like there's any vegetation tree removal any trees proposed any extra trees I don't believe so okay and are you all yes I just wanted to mention there was a dead Tre in front that the house that we got a permit to be removed from here and it was removed okay um are you is the driveway changing at all I know the driveway is going to be the top of the driveway will become house but are you changing anything on along the curb with the driveway or is it remaining in as far as the curb cut the curb cut or the apron change or is there anything in within the public right of light that may change or you working with the existing conditions I actually believe that we're going to have to um probably why in the the curb cut a little bit okay so if the street is if there is any alteration within the right way and it sounds like the apron will be touched it will require a street opening permit a bond and an inspection from the burrow engineer okay I think that's right uh with that said me I got a motion on this application Mr Del make a motion to accept I have a second second by Mr per second the motion and a roll call on 33 Campell Lan Mr suan yes as presented Mr Coello yes deia yes Mr Sylvester yes Mr yes West augus yes motion Carri good luck with your Bild down thank you good luck with everything thank you very much for joining us this evening and by the way Connie was terrific and helping us so just want to put that out there youngo thank you very much for your comment we'll share that and our next application this evening which was carried from May 23rd this is application 23008 Michael and Deb Gil Bowski 20 Overhill away 351 11 in the cinnamon Ridge area we're going to have a nice table for you right here so we can be comfortable this evening and um well I Believe Miss gilb is still under oath but looks like maybe a professional with her this evening yes if I could just ask you to raise your right hand both of you do you swear tell the truth the whole truth and oh I'm sorry I'm you Mr ainson do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do I do thank you and if I could have your name and address uh Luis Ramirez with RG Premier Landscaping um currently located in Gillette New Jersey uh 331 Valley Road are you a landscaping professional by trade correct are you a licensed engineer by trade not engineer but licensed contractor licensed contractor are you a landscape architect by TR no sir thank you very much we accept the the landscape contract um Miss Gil Bowski why don't you just bring us back to our last meeting from May 23rd and just let's recap where we were and some of the housekeeping and homework that you've done can I just add one thing my husband is online and he is he would have he would have to be present here be able to talk yes this is exactly okay I'll try my husband has done all of it I have to be honest with you so I will try my best so um unfortunately since we went back to the live sessions by ordinance anyone who wishes to speak needs to be physically that's okay I mentioned that in the last meeting that he wouldn't be here so I'm gonna I'm gonna do my best that's why we have you seated we're going to relax and we're we will try to get through and we will try to help answer some of the questions we're here to try to get us to a fair place and let's just see how we application okay so from the last meeting we had some takeaways Unfortunately they were not all in the minutes but I captured them as best as possible and those were submitted to Connie I believe two weeks ago which I'm hoping everybody got a copy of of all the items that we were supposed to cover um so the first thing was soil testing um we didn't even know but we were we hired um a firm I a something ants ANS and had soil testing done uh previously and so we had a copy of that and that's what we've submitted you know let's talk about that sure the it from what I've read I'm going to also defer to the the burough engineer ants plants came in to analyze the ornamental soils and the ornamental plants correct sure okay however there was a significant amount of fill put on property and I don't know to what extent ants plants provided their test it may have been an inch of surface top soil but I believe it says it on okay let Mr Atkins can you pull that up and if you can provide some type of my quick review of it it looked like it was just the surface level soil which would have been like a top soil dressing that I'm sure the landscaper so there was other questions about the soil in that where the what you call which receip the receipts yeah yeah the receipts you had asked do we have those we oh those were the sir sir sir sir sir are you were you here for this application no okay we is there anything that we can I know you you came out here and we're going to put this family on pause for a second is there anything that the board of adjustment can answer for you or did you have a question for us so we provide you with some have a nice Seas okay we lost one I'm sorry to cut you off a Midway through your your comment I we just like to take care of thanks there tickets or or tickets for the soil you had me you had asked for those if we had those when soils from what I recall there was a series of dump trucks that delivered product to your home that was from a pool excavation job in Shore Hills now was that no so that was a contractor we let go and then we hired Luis and his firm to complete the job okay with after we got the plans approved for the wall and the leveling off the backyard so Lise finished that okay so how many truckloads of top soil did your company deliver and do you have those tickets I have the tickets I could provide them I don't have them with me at the second um was one a bit late but I can definitely drop them off at any time this week but it was if I recall correctly it was right under um I believe we imported about four trucks Each truck was holding about five to six yards uh meaning around 20 yards of compost which is uh screen top soil coming from chadam um what is it chadam chadam Stone right next to Nappa you from a facility not FCO Brothers down down right next to the hardware store so you you have the tickets from that quality product which was placed on top of the fil soil that came from the ex no we actually ended up hauling out all that soil of Simply to please the neighbors that seem to be a bit upset because of the the soil and preaching onto their property line or border which we took that was the first thing that we took care of in address how many dump trucks five five of my dump trucks five of your dump and how many dump trucks did you remove at least four four trucks yeah at least that I can recall but I have those notes did you remove 100% of the soils that were used as fil from possibly the uh pool excavation in short I would can comfortably tell to you I removed the large majority if I can't confirm that it's 100 % but definitely anything that was on the borderline or close to the neighbors on both ends was all hauled out why did you remove that s one because because of the weather conditions at that moment believe that week was completely muddy it was a muddy mess it seemed to be more of a hassle to try to work with that material than to just get it out and bring in the new material and where did that material go that material went to um I believe the rundis or the chadam stone I got a got a Chou check our tickets so you would have receipts for the for the disposal as well correct yes you guys didn't mention that last time well he wasn't here I I had no we don't I didn't know what he did I have no idea what had five trucks brought in no not five trucks we never had five trucks there was mounds of dirt but not five truck load took away five trucks yeah but it wasn't I didn't bring in five trucks at once it's Each truck is loading up one at a time you you had one at a time a total of five trucks bring in yeah to before you started right before you started they had a separate contractor correct that contractor brought five truckloads of dirt I don't know about truckloads I just know that there are mounds of dirt and I have to be honest with you I wasn't we took away four or five there had to be four five that came in depending on the size truck if you're talking about a triaxle one triaxle could have fit in in one truck what I could fit in for my trucks so this is what I'm trying to get up you had all this dirt brought in then it was removed and new dirt was brought in but we never heard about this removal I mean you you would have to have seen this significant amount of dirt being removed but you guys didn't mention that last I I I I swear I did not see anything being removed I barely even saw the W wall being built I have four kids and I'm running around we we went out I don't even think we came sure everything wase was on a road trip or M travels three weeks a month like on Road uh he's not here now I mean I I I swear I did not see truckloads of dirt coming in and it sounds like five might be the starting point five five were deposited five were removed five more came in so we're we're at approximately five loads and how many cubic yards did your company drop drop in I I'll drop off I'll get get the tickets but come just if going off that that number I would tell you it's between what 18 to 20 Each truck depending one truck can only put four the other one could put like five and a half so I'm giving you a rough number of five of each one Mr Atkins what is the requirement in the municipality regarding depositing soils what is the threshold sure once you deposit 100 cubic yards then they need to have a to submit for a soil movement so this was cubic un yeah if the numbers are correct um what he's telling us then yeah okay it also has to the the soil movement perent also then talks about grading and changing of elevations and stuff like that if they're changing the grade by more than six inches then that would trigger it as well okay so what is the height of the retaining wall in the back it's the height of the retaining wall is exactly 3' 8 in 3' 8 Ines from grae from gra correct at at the tallest point at the tallest point so we know that it's that number times the 3' 8 in and since we're talking about the retaining wall what is the found how thick what is the depth of the foundation and the course that is underg grade the uh there's about two blocks underg grade 8 in each no each block is 8 in correct so it's about 16 in just in block and then you have about 12 to 15 in in QP or the gravel the base gravel for the stone so all of those numbers add up to greater than four feet correct all right so there would be an engineer is the is the retaining wol that was installed course below grade BL and above grade you know 3.8 in signed off and sealed from an engineer so we have a from what I spoke to my husband about if you could help me out with this one there's a topographical survey that was done and signed by an engineer I believe his name is Michael jurus I'm sorry babe really wrong that's correct um and um we're getting we we also have another plan coming by Morgan and some that shows as buil Sir you can't you can't speak Regina you're gonna have to put him on mute showen a as built now with the patio because I believe that's what we were missing and we were asked for as well in the last meeting and UNT believe yeah so we were supposed to have that delivered by today it's running late obviously so I can get that he said no later than tomorrow apparently so yeah I one my wall but I'm still lost on the dirt I mean if that wall was 3' 8 in high in that corner I don't see how 18 yards of dirt I like I said I'll I'll drop off the receipts I'm I guess that you have receipts for 18 yards dirt at least but if we were to do calculations my guess would be thater way greater than 18 18 yards of dirt I mean I'll double check like I said our our notes but I'm fairly confident that it's around what that that we imported maybe it's less that I took out um the less soil that stayed or that we hauled out we did haul out uh some truckloads but included in that truckloads were just old material that was sitting that was sitting there that the old contractor had brought in old blocks that we cleaned up the area um the old the some of the old uh I think the walk I'm not sure if it was just essentially just old blocks bricks um that they were even going to use as the retaining wall but that didn't make sense at the that's part of what you hauled away right that's part of what we hauled away I don't think that what you took away was all the dirt that came in and then only brought 18 yards back because if you only brought 18 yards and I believe that you did I that's just not enough to fill the void between the old grade and the wall that mean I know what 18 yards of top looks like spreading into a yard and it doesn't cover all that much I mean 18 yards in a big property would spread real thin real quick right yeah but if you're focusing it on essentially in one location cuz you didn't put any really on top close to the essentially it's all going about 4800 Square ft of some type of soils were distributed about the rear yard from the patio to I'm really sorry okay yeah that's that's those are the numbers that are in the reports and so I'll double check I'm really not sure which is why the engineer is here we're trying to help your family through the process this is a this is a challenge for for as well as so one of the reasons I I said the um core soil testing was because when they do core soil testing they will drill down and take a put or and pull out an entire or a cylinder of soil that they'll test the entire thing not just kind of the top where the Grass Grows or where the plants go because they do that for acidity right what is the soil like can I plant here but when you do a and I had to do this because I know cuz I did it at my grandparents house when there was an oil tank there was REM we had to do a core sample all the way down to show that nothing had leaked so when they do that you would my and my ask was because then if it comes back clean and the township engineer says okay I'm comfortable that this soil is clean that I would feel comfortable that the soil is clean that your surrounding neighbors would have to clean soil but you would have to go down deeper than three inches you'd have to go down a foot at least yeah I I don't disagree with you all with all due respect in the meeting I had asked I to repeat a couple things and I think Mr Sullivan you said it would be in the notes and this was not in the notes so I apologize totally fine with that's if that's what it's called I wrote it down and I can absolutely you get an environmental company that that comes out and they just do core soil testing or something you have that's what they'll do they'll do an entire tube goes down and they pull it out and then that goes off for testing to say whether it's clean or if there's anything in the soil and that report would then say and the reason I was saying this because if that report came back clean and you showed your topographical which shows kind of the now the flow of water off your property if the township engineer said I'm okay with this this isn't going to disturb neighbors okay great so that solves kind of what you've done so now we know the soil's clean what you've done in terms of how level it is or which way it pitches isn't going to affect neighbors and so on and then that becomes something I can be comfortable with them sure right because then the neighbors aren't goingon to they they would have some peace of mind as well I think those you would end up where you are today if you had taken those steps fire right if all the soil came in had tickets and was clean you wouldn't have to worry about that if there was a plan that showed what it was going to look like when it was finished then it would have been approved and you wouldn't have to worry about that so you're kind of working backwards now trying to solve those those few things um I I mean we're not going to be able to vote on this yeah I think we're g let's go through as much of the exercise as we can and I think you bring up a great point that the depth of soil testing which was my opener I recently completed a project in Rosel Park which was a bridge and it had a Transformer and excavations were 20 foot down was was the the soil test that was required there on Gordon Street but enough with depth and coure testing so um tell us about the retaining wall and did you construct the retaining wall did your team construct the retaining wall and did you have an engineer do you have an engineer on staff that signed off on on staff no I went based on the plans that were given by essentially by an engineer okay and what who is the engineer do we have those plans yes his name is Michael jurus Michael jurus I I have there's some literature but I didn't see the plans been submitted and approved um so they should okay the plans were submitted and approved by whom uh saaro believe or Tombo I'm sorry okay one of the Tom okay one of the so before we started the process will have to check because it is the board's understanding have hold on yes it's the board yeah we'd like to see that it's the board's understanding that work was done prior to the permits which is why we're here no so tell us what permits you receive from the town because I think that'll help clarify some for the retaining wall and the leveling out the back yard have a permit for and we that you know just reating that from the last do you do you have that permit with you so I have the plan I don't have the the stamped approv plan by the town I don't think this is that one but this is the plan we that is approved I would have to check with the tab I don't know yeah I I I think that that is a significant yeah I mean that's why we're a little concerned if there was some type of Prior approval that does carry some weight however I don't know if every single aspect of the permit process may have been completed which is the only thing that is not complet the only thing that was and that's why we're getting an Asis planned from morgon and Morgan is which this is the topography change correct um and being that um there's a wood deck on here and not the patio so that that would take in consideration the patio the new plan the the new plan would have the patio for the leveling out of the backyard the retaining wall the water drainage for the retaining wall that's my next that's where we're going next yep is there a storm waterer management plan was there a design was the storm waterer management plan approved by the T yes that was part of this plan this is it's part it's on here you built it to and Tom Safara was at our house and suggested that we do a couple of other things after the neighbor's complaint we also spoke to Louise and we did that on the Fly I think last time we talked about the river rock um we talked about um moving back the rock a bit after the wall we talked about that there was mulch there before when we bought the property and now there is River Rock there one of our neighbors stood up and said that there was no water issue um since doing it um who I also met with for your suggestion again um um also the outlet for the discharge of the water from the wall as Tom's suggestion um he requested that it be on an angle so it's not facing directly towards the the neighboring or the the neighbor that was complaining at the moment so he suggested to angle it to the right so it's going towards the essentially the enement that's in located in there's yeah there's an eement that goes from holly news underground and then deposits into the I think you may have a retention pond across the street from you street down the street and and around so we're like kind of like down it's over question for so if I'm looking at this forget about the dirt and all that other stuff the variances required are based on other coverage and total over coverage yes right so that I mean that's what we're looking at if the so if everything else they did have permits for an approval for by the engineer it sound it sounds like something there's a disconnect somewhere regarding the the permit phase and if if all permits were secured they are I mean I think that's where we got caught up in the last meeting and that way that's why we feel a little defeated that we got we we absolutely started the backyard without any permits but then once we got a violation from the town we did ex your project started in September or October and then somewhere along the line of violation we have we have it was June 6th he approved the the town approved the permit for us leveling out the backyard and the wall and the water um management plan that's on here so we have the permits for that that's and the apartment process the permit process is now all completely online though too so it aren't they yeah so could you would you have access to your online account to just show I guess I I think really for the the next meeting if you have the the permits the yeah that it sounds like there is a disconnect If part of the folder that you guys had or something I don't have we don't have any per in the folder that we have there are zero permits well we get is um that you were denied and why you were denied right and that's what we discussed but any of the permits that were approved in some the plan was approved you don't get the plan no because again what we're here forget about the dirt and all the other pieces is that you you want to do a project that goes over your other allowable coverage and your total coverage so that's what we would typically just be discussing right um that's why we because we went I guess the disconnect is you started the project without a permit and then the neighbors I guess the neighbors got involved and there was a complaint and and then you got permits and things happen prior to the permits being done with the dirt so there's just kind of a lot of moving pieces uh I I think in your best interest having the permits that says here's what was approved by the town and here's what we did that match then really what we're discussing again forget about soil is they they've got an overage in coverage and they've got an overage in um other to you know total combined coverage and that's what we would really be discussing is just like any other application and potentially the height of the wall because the height of the wall the retaining wall is three feet however you've got courses that are underground so ACC to my Tom S Faro and I spoke to him yesterday I was on that call to the shrine ofair for today he said as long as a licensed engineer signs off the plan according because we were when we went back with um and forth with Amanda on the rule for New Jersey of the height of the wall he said as long as on the plan a certified engineer certifies the plan that that wall being as high as it is is allowed I don't know what that means that's all he told us um so we kind this is where we're a little stuck too because like you said we're here for a pat and the barbecue and we're not here for this because we got the permit so if that's all we need to do not all we need to do but obviously the so soil testing then just Mr Atkins when you have an opportunity can you touch base with the borrow engineer and I think it's important that the engineers and the Gil Bowski and the landscape professional speak if there are permits inh housee that would certainly help the situation that we're all faced with tonight it all up and then what we're really voting on is the over and then we then we end up voting on the overage for other I have a quick question um I thought to my knowledge the it was the wall needed to be measured above grade below grade didn't didn't come into account my understanding of the way the ordinance is is from it needs to be engineered you could have something at grade and up but you've got courses below so it requires some additional engineering because you're greater than four feet combined and either way if the engineer signed off on it it doesn't matter yeah that's what that's what I'm saying if youve if you didn't have an engineer signature that would be a point of debate but if you've got an engineer signature whether it's 4 foot or 42 in you're okay because an engineer side off on it so that to me that's again it's trying to figure out what we need to eliminate and without the paperwork and that's okay we can do it next time but we have that paperwork we can start eliminating things like Wall's been certified by engineer check right the topographical PL been certified by the town engineer great they're okay with it like you get the permit for it great so we go back to the original application which is just the OES which is you know which will make it a little easier and Mr Atkinson I have a question not to put you on the spot there is language here that there was 4800 square foot of disturbance in the rear y regarding the project which was over the 5,000 threshold that Summer Set soils triggers however what was not taken into consideration was the Improvement of patio but the patio at 745 would add to that disturbance level of 4,800 which would bring you over 5,000 can you comment on Somerset soils I know you're not a Somerset so represent sure I mean the overall I mean typically I know when we do our soil erosion plans it's all you know all soil disturbance so the patio would the construction of the patio would incorporate soil disturbance to take care of it so that should be factored into the overall um I if you look at the general overall disturbance area potential disturbance area of the backyard it does exceed it'll exceed the 5,000 square foot uh threshold um I know your husband's not here but if I recall at the last one I thought they said they had that from Somerset County right it looks like there's something in like package County um it it looks like it's a a it's a template of it's a fee schedule but there's nothing that speaks to your homeone submitted to Connie um an email you might have if you have a copy of the letter maybe just get that for the for the board the problem is is submitting it to it all gets printed and sent to so I apologize that we may have just gotten one page of what you sent okay it may have been a so um chairman back related to the retaining wall I mean the way the the way the state rules are written it's uh the overall height which also includes the buried depth of the wall so the 4 foot height requirement includes anything that's buried so if we have two corses of block berries about 16 in plus then 3 foot includes the cap correct but again it may be a mute issue if if in fact that the plan was signed and sealed by the Ser the the license engineer related to the plants but I think to to your point if we can get that Clarity on here um that may help relieve one of your issues um I would just like to point out too I know they they mentioned about storm water measures and stuff um to mitigate but I don't I don't think what was discussed was the you know the increase of the patio um where um you know that's new impervious carage that's a net a net 745 which is the patio and the um barbecue feature back there right and the retaining will so 745 plus whatever you impervious coverage the retaining will is that's a number and that would require a storm water management plan approved by the yeah if you takeway for the engineering side of it if you can just take a look and speak to Mr Saro regarding and Mr Bako what permits have been issued so there is an understanding between the Gil Bowski their architectural Prof their landscape professional and the town so it provides this board with someity regarding moving forward and again it's I I have to PR by saying it's not a guarantee you know when we meet again I'm I'm not 100% sure of what the outcome of the project will be but we're taking step I just want I just want to be clear on what we need to do because it I'm confused because we did mention in the first meeting that we had assign you know assigned plan that was approved by the town and we were confused why we were been talking about the wall and and the the backyard being leveled off in the first place right but we want we don't have any anything that confirms that there are permits this board would feel more comfortable knowing that there are permits in place okay there's a disconnect somewhere along the line to Mr Kell's point we may just be here for an overage on coverage for Combined and other coverage that's what we were here for because that's what we got the letter for so that's where we're we're just trying to we're I just feel like we're running around too trying to you're asking you know we we got this information but then what was missing like for me from the last meeting is we were talking about the dirt right was like hey I don't have the tickets and he didn't have the tickets and rightfully said where you know where it came from you new professional he has the tickets and he said that last time that we we we he would have the tickets and I think that was one of the things that had come up was that there was um you know where did the soil come from so there was just some moving parts so I think I think for your next meeting if you have all of that documentation right the engineered s plans that you know that coincides with the permit that says hey we can put this wall here at this height we've got the permit for it and here's the engineered plan so now the town said you can have it and the engineer said this is I certifi that this is a good wall the way it's going to be built right now the Wall comes off in terms of this kind of conversation you've got the permit and the sign off for the leveling of the yard and and what that would look like so so that would go that's all part of that whole that's part of that plan right just yeah would be part of the permit and you've got the topographical survey but you have it signed off in the bo Township engineer that you can proceive because it's got to go through zoning engineering right so to get the permit it has to go through all those steps so if everybody signed off on it I mean I don't know know we have a signed plan so can you please help me with that one so I don't know if we have an actual piece of paper that had that we have a permit but we have a plan that the town approved for us to do the work so they would give you they would give you a a permit so you're oh yes we do we taped it on the back door I remember okay so yeah you would have it's okay you would have the permit that just shows they I I applied for this right and when you could even have your application CHS this is what we applied for okay and this is what we were granted because you'll get it right so when you apply for the permit you say I want this do that with Connie and it goes through it goes through all again the has to go through zoning the zoning officer passes it it goes through engineering the engineering officer passes it and then it goes to building and when the building department passes it it goes back to to the home work okay and got it when you did it the first time we that's why we got this is because when they finally made it through all that process it started with zoning zoning iy said hey this doesn't match up right on on the coverages yes because now it's coming back to we did apply for a permit for the patio separately separately which trigger the they did not approve it and then that's why we're here right so what we're talking about is two separate projects the first one is the wall and the leveling of the yard which you've got permits for and completed specification so that's what you want to present and say hey project one we built the wall here's the engineering plans here's the permits here's all the stuff we did this just as we said we would this is what it looks like then the second thing is we applied for a permit for a patio that we already built and then that's what the board would be discussing your new patio and the coverage and the overages so you want to clear up obstacle one which is the wall and the leveling of the yard and that's all the paperwork you have right the Somerset County Soil plan paperwork that you have the engineered sign plans your permits any paperwork that could show all of the the pieces right then we can just check off project one that's that's done permitted and signed off on and do you have a vegetative restoration plan that your landscape architect or landscape contract is going to be working with like are you planning on ornamental grasses ornamental trees is there something else the the yard is an empty canvas right now you've got the barbecue feature and a I think there's a trampoline or something right there is there any planting around the perimeter of and on on our side you're saying on the on the side of the wall on your on your property is there is there anything there or is there anything planted there are trees there um and we all I also spoke to Mrs Johnson about the tree that we will plant in that there's a little bit of but is there do you have a landscape plan for the backyard if you do no do I would present that as well I can take a pict the buffer of the screening between the neighbor you had proposed a tree with I mean I mean I'm kind of confused on where you would like that planting cuz I mean if you do anything but above the wall I think that would canvas backyard right now with a barbecue feature and I think there some apparat there's a swing set or TR something yeah okay and then you have this big Mt rectangle are you planning on filling the Big MT rectangle in with any no buffer plants you're just leaving it very large trees that are line our entire backyard now the trees the trees that are lining your backyard are they your trees or your neighbor's trees there are neighbor's trees neighbor's trees and Mrs Johnson and I spoke about the one tree that we'll plant that has to be at least you know we agreed six feet high when this Project's done we both agreed um for the sake of the both of us yeah that was beond the stones it was kind of in that area oh on the other side of the river rock right so I didn't plan on having a plan um for that but I General you have your lands and I'm not trying to sell right now you know I I'm not trying to sell plants here no we did put shrubs in our backyard flowers the kid what we're asking because I It's seems like it's an empty canvas right now and you're not planning on putting a the fence back there are you uh no because if there is a four foot wall and you want a five foot fence that's a 9 foot fence and that's a variant we have notion that nature wouldn't be having uh anything done right right now after the call so with that we're going to have to put a pin in this we're going to touch base with Kowski party and their landscape contractor will touch base with the town regarding the permits that are in place and we're going to carry this meeting to October 24th are we requiring the core testing the soil core testing yes that was part of the conversation this evening I just wanted you to know everything that we're I I I I very much appreciate that now um just a just out of curiosity we would like you to ask as many questions the floor is yours the time is yours we want to make sure that you're leaving here Hall I know this is we're not going to meet again until October but you know I'm almost happy that we're not meeting until October because the barbecue is there let's get through Labor Day and enjoy the backyard and figure it out when the leaves start falling up the Tre it's not you know this into the season we're not going to do that thank you Mr Salin I just had a quick question I mean I came into the project when it was midst started so um initially my first reaction was kind of get kind of get the Neighbors on our side since they seemed a bit upset um several things were done prior to the other contractor like the silt fencing which we did almost immediately from removing the access soil because I didn't see a point of putting a silt fence on top of the soil that was that needed to get either pushed back or or or off the neighbor property now my question to that was looking at the property what it was before it seemed like everything just pitched towards the neighbor before so now with an elevated surface and controlled way of EX exiting the water I see it kind of difficult to think that the water is going to go towards the neighbors and what it was prior to that now you mentioned that there was an in easement I've I've been working in this town for very long I grew up in this town so um I take very pride in what I do and try to do well um so it's it's kind of odd to me that this enement needs to be cleared when if you simply just walk down that that enement is locked check how the subdivision was filed cinnamon Ridge was developed in the 80s Holly mes followed right behind the Gil Bowski house in between Holly mes is a drift Zone there is an easement back there there's a conservation easement on the first house and then water does pipe under cinnamon Ridge under Overhill and work its way to the water detension system but you're you're welcome to touch base with the town regarding how that was developed there was a reason why all the yards were sloped when the when the development came that was that was ear marks for a golf course and because I've do several other properties and I know other properties that have um essentially added soil over that am easement and and I know for a fact that whatever tube is there prior is collapsed so I know that that pipe isn't discharging where it's supposed to be discharging so I'm saying if there's a collection of water and if there's a large storm that would essentially flood I don't see any type of water management program that would essentially collect a hurricane that what I would think is what will provide that backup in water your you would need to stick with the requirements from the town regarding your specific part okay understood it sounds like it's 7:45 plus the retaining W of it's going to be a storm witer management designed to handle 800 and change U impervious surface Edition okay and those are things that could be done nice rain Garden could be designed right so again something that would the engineering department will offer couple of different ways about water remediation water is a very sensitive topic storm water management is an extremely isn't the Water Management with the drainage essentially with the water drainage behind the walls or the drainage that this is two projects right project one wall and dirt right wall and leveling of the land of project one with that you submitted SP Water Management plan right that's approved accepted you're going to show that and we're project one is done we're now here for project two project two is I'm building this 800t patio round numbers right uh I'm now having perious surface of 800t F feet water is going to fall and it's going to run off somewhere I now have to show how I'm going to handle this extra 800 square foot you may show your old plan and and they say oh this plan is good enough to handle because some people build these plans that are can can overdue right so your plan may handle the extra 800 or it may not so what they may say is this 800 foot of patio is going to need its own new storm water management plan and that may be yeah you put in a you know rain Garden something that's decorative that you could design something that would just kind of collect the contents of the water but that's why we got to remember it's two separate projects and we we keep blending them together with hey we did storm water management you did for the wall and the leveling of the land not for the patio so that's why we ask for twice so can I ask you a question on that is that something we review with okay Tom the the township engineer Tom S Faro he would you could submit stuff and he would say this is good or you got to enlarge it I mean I submitted stuff and he said hey this is nice make it bigger or this will work right so you can go with an idea you can ask them for suggestions and and they'll help you out um you may want to talk to Richard lar the environmental commission guys he's got a million suggestions on different options so you know but there's folks in the town that would help you with that rich Richard Richard Le yeah he's usually I'm surprised he's not here this evening he might be on vacation but he's with the environmental commission and he would be happy to spend his volunteer time with you to explain what opportunities there are regarding water remediation again your water remediation is for the current project not not part one and two yeah no I got it yeah I just interject too I mean if you take a look at our review letter I know we provided some uh potential things to look at for options also gave you some direction just some State guidance documents out there related to what's called Green infrastructure so there's different things uh that you could look to do the capture the border and handle the the increase impervious coverage um do you have a copy of the neger report not I have one yeah I have corre you're right you do on your property your property not not the whole thing so they're trying to tackle it one house at a time everybody it makes sense but it's like when you're working around the area they're focusing on that but the main issue is down there like that's that's where I come in that's my mentality I don't know and that guy has to improve to address his thing yeah I hear you it's come yeah we we'll be pointing fingers all day I guess and and we appreciate that you I know this is the this is a difficult conversation for all of us but we do appreciate that we're taking steps in the right direction and I know you are hired Midway through the project and we appreciate your time and attention to this and your present this evening certainly recognized and we thank you for that and prior to your if you have any questions you can reach out to Connie and Connie can funnel the questions back to us so if you think you missed something you got a question you can send it to con con send it to the chairman and to Amanda and you know so coming back if you think you've missed something ask okay sorry I didn't think we to no that's fine Connie's very helpful so we're here to help you through the process we'd rather you come back with all the stuff so you you can get it cleared up one way Mr Delia any comment thank you Mr Sylvester any comment none M West any comment yeah Mr per any comment nope all right and then I've said my my comments do you have any closing questions or is there anything unresolved that we could help answer for you before I don't want you to leave with a with a headache so I know I know look I I I know it's a tense situation we're try I think I think I'm okay I appreciate it so we're targeting August I mean October October 24th do we need to Ren notice no no and for this October 24th meeting so essentially testing the I just want to confirm so it's the core testing the the tickets for the soil imported exported yeah that go hey look soil's clean and I soil that was that may have been left behind is clean and the stuff I brought in here here's where it came from it it just clears up anything that could be outlined no it makes sense to me um and then essentially if we find the the the permit for the approved n one that's what we're bringing um is there anything else I'm missing the Somerset County Soil yeah we yeah we have an email from them saying that it's under 4,800 there's no I'm not sure if it's a permit or if it's um something saying that there's not needed I I have that however we might in that gray area with the patio and the 4800 disturbance that we know around the project see that's is what I'm saying it's two separate projects they're clearing up project one which is 4800 Square F feet so that's why I'm saying in your best interest clear project one which shows we're moving 4,800 F feet of soil disturbance not moving but we had 4,800 disturbance and the Somerset County said this so we're good on Project one and I think that's again where it keeps overlapping as you started project two and project one was done but it's they they Blended too much together and that's why everybody keeps talking about 4,800 and 700 for the patio if they was done at once so is that separated each one too when should be two separate projects right so if you didn't do the patio we wouldn't be talking about suers County and then if the permit for the Patty were ped prior to it being done we probably wouldn't be talking about the disturbance because it would have been separate not intertwined into this conversation so uh we could you guys I mean from from a legal standpoint it looks like it's two separate projects so how would how would you how how do you back date and say yeah so the so the question kind of comes down to the wall work and the patio work I know you guys are looking at potentially as two separate projects however if they're done almost simultaneously or within a short time period no when I came in patio was done patio was completed um when I came in the the square where the where the um the deck used to be the papers were late if you could show a timeline of that because what he's saying is if you had done them like one week apart it's even though it's two projects it's one big disturbance so you want to show when this was done and if you find that it was done like days weeks apart where it's kind of close then you may want to go back and talk about hey we had a total of 5,500 square feet of disturbance not 4800 today and 6 months later a year later 700 that would be separate so kind of look at your timeline to see how close they were and use your best judgment to say what what what do we think is the right thing right is it close enough that we probably should file and get it it really comes down to a fee right so that I mean when the retaining well constructed last October November or just very in 2024 the the wall the wall yeah the wall was in 2023 2023 yeah so it was around November around October the patio no the patio was done before I came in and I possibly started bidding the job early um October and then we probably started in mid or so when you B the the patio was already completed the patio was completed yeah we we finished laying the sidewalk that wasn't done correctly um but the patio theier was done did the other contractors start the patio and you finished you finished the the blemish is it sounds like you you may have terminated a contract with a contractor in mes right right okay so the first plan with the patio didn't work out with your contractor and they went away and then this organization came in to complete the job well I mean it wasn't it wasn't really about the patio it was about the wall and the Pao was yeah the patio was was was was done like I said I mean the the only thing we did was stick the veneer barbecue did not touch the P we did not touch the P I didn't even build the blocks for the for the for the barbecue area we just touched it up and made it pretty that's it blocks were the framing for the barbecue area was already done the the pavers were laid um we just did the veneer essentially the touchup D was the other contractor was he going to do the retain wall or yeah okay so you're seeing this as one project thenert opinion from from what I can tell on some I don't want to misse I I really this is I I think a retaining wall I don't know so in your best interest I would reach out to suers County Soil and talk to about 5,500 square feet of disturbance that would take in C your lawn and the patio right even though it's two separate projects two separate contractors it's took a little time in between because of the change of contractors for your safety it's one of those things you can just check off by saying we went to them we've got clearance certification there 48 31 48 and 70 700 yeah no no was it 48 31 Square I think that's what the number oh plus 745 5575 this the to so you just work with the Somerset County and say this is theb you know so the plan the plan that the engineer prepared shows the zone of disturbance 4,813 Square Fe that's just3 that's for the backyard not inclusive of the patio and 745 from the patio right and then whatever the walkway is too but what you're looking at is you contact them they'll give you the there's a fee certification fee and an inspection fee it's probably 5600 sare ft so between 5,000 foot an acre you're talking the 250 certification Fe 525 inspection Fe we just work with them to come out how about the fact that the wall was pushed back doesn't that lower that coverage of disturbed or no not really no because it would have already been Disturbed that whole area actually goes beyond the property line from what I can tell and your disturbance line on the the engineers plan basically stops at the property line it looks like according to the somerset soil the schedule that was provided for 5,000 square foot it's $250 certification fee plus a $525 inspection next the somerset s Els so we're over that right you're you're you're at 5600 you're between the 5,000 and 1 acre is the is on your P schedule it's the Top Line this says you know this this bracket so just let them know okay C fee inspection Fe yeah uh 250 start and then the inspection fee is 525 anything else all right so we look forward to seeing you on October 24th and Hope hopefully we can resolve okay thank thank you very much for joining us this week enjoy the during the summer thank Mr thank you very much for joining us appreciated you know there are a number of projects coming in we may require Engineering Services for some of the commercial projects that we see on the horizon um with that said I got a motion to open up the MERS of the motion the members of the public second by Miss West Second favor the meeting is now open to members of the public that are pres that have a question or comment for the ring board being no one may have a motion to close the meeting to members of the public M Sylvester make a motion to close this meeting to the members of the public and a second by Mr per expecting a motion than you meeting is now closed to members of the public and questions comments does anyone have anything they want to talk about anyone anyone Sir with that said Mr deia can I get a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn and may have second by Mr per I second the motion we are all in favor meeting is now closed thank you very much enjoy uh the month of July and then we'll see you August probably early the holiday I think [Music] it's next time we second yes you jack you're right on it jumping August 22nd we'll see everyone on on August 22nd thank you very much have a great evening he