##VIDEO ID:x7zJXBHyUcM## progress Mike is the uh Mr can you adjust there we go we're good I don't know what the top two pictures are someone someone s good evening everyone welcome to the board of adjustment Township of Berkeley Heights we're located at 29 Park Avenue here in Berkeley Heights this is our public meeting this evening it's October 24th 2024 we have 7 p.m. on the clock please note that this meeting is being held in conformance with all regulations of the sunshine and open public meetings act adequate notice has been posted in meeting has been posted on the township website and sent to the newspapers of record the agenda has been posted on the 10wn website and the bolon board fronting the municipal building at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting the agenda items will not necessarily be Regard in the order listed and the meeting will not continue substantially past 10:30 p.m. virgia May I have a call please Mr suan pres coell here Mr Delia here Mr Ringwood here Sylvester here Mr Pera here West Austin her regrets Mr Degan here Mr thoris here wol here here thank you very much let's move on to the adoption of the minutes of of our housekeeping the meeting of August 22nd 2024 this was an executive session Mr Ringwood did you have an opportunity to review the comments on the executive session you up for a motion I did I find him in order I move we accept the minutes thank you have a second by Mr Sylvester please I second that all in favor on the minut minutes 8222 24 thank you moving on to the minutes from September 26 2024 that was our last meeting this was a regular meeting Mr theia did you have an opportunity to review the minutes yes I believe very order and make motion to accept and have a second by Mr Degan I second all in favor on 92624 regular meeting we have correspondence this evening we have email dated October 10th 24 from Dana Nigro the vice chair of the Berkeley Heights complete and green streets test for introducing a newly created test course and I believe that Dana would like to introduce herself to the board and we have a letter dated October 1424 for Michael fne senior property manager from first student regarding 40 Russo the place and we have 40 Russo place which will be first up on our resol our regular session this evening let's move on to the adoption of resolutions to keep the paperwork rolling extension of approval 391 Springfield Avenue this is known as the clock tower building 389 381 Springfield Avenue block 208 L 20 Mr sylvestor did you have an opportunity to review the resolution and can you offer a motion I did review it and I make a motion to we accept that have second by Mr delita second all uh roll call on the extension Gina Please Mr Sullivan yes yes Mr de yes Mr Ringwood yes Sylvester yes Mr parer yes motion carry 6 Z thank you very much and moving on to application 1521 Oz custom Builders 725 Mountain Avenue block 206 206 lot 32 this was the Westminster Presbyterian Church parcel that we spent several years on and we've got a 27 page resolution from M wolf thank you very much Mr Ringwood did you have an opportunity to review the resolution you make a comment on that please I did I find the resolution to be in order and I move that we accept the resolution second soov and Regina roll call for the eligible board members please yes yes yes yes yes thank you very much we are moving on to our traditional applications this evening I will let the audience know what order we are going to listen this evening we will hear from First Student First located at 40 Russo Place followed by 20 Overhill way followed by five Webster followed by 20 Liberty so if there's anyone in the audience or listening from home they can balance out their time management with that said let's move on to First Student where youo place thank you and mol I believe our professional has appeared before the word before yes I believe so but please introduce yourself uh it's Michael Al with the offices of kinian and Jan tamasi appearing up here of the applicant for student and can you please elaborate on what brings you before the string board this evening if if you if this board recalls and most of you were on the board at that time in 2021 preliminary final site plan approval and a D3 conditional use variants was sought in connection with conversion of this property which was non-permitted Environmental Waste Recovery company into the use as a school bus depot uh after several hearings and adjournment requests as a result of issues with the Conformity of the site to njde regulations and requirements the board on September of 2022 voted to Grant site plan approval and the variance relief that we requested and that approval was memorialized in a resolution dated October 27th 2022 uh there were a number of conditions that were placed on the approvals that were granted included in these conditions was a requirement that the applicant conduct a traffic study after approximately school cycles uh which should have occurred honor before August 31st of 2024 and that the same sh includeed a calculation of the trips per hour and Analysis of whether the Ingress and egress and on-site circulation was creating traffic problems that detrimentally impacted the surrounding neighborhood the traffic study was to have been completed and submitted to the board for its review and if required by the board the applicant was required to present the study to the board along with notice to be provided so that the public would have an opportunity to be heard um the applicant encountered issues with the property owner regarding the cost of the r development of the site which also included removal of the existing storm water pipe and the restoration of the stream and as required by the njd as the applicant can confirm and I have Mr Klein here um it took approximately a year and a half of discussions and negotiations with the landlord to reach a settlement of the cost allocation uh therefore work only began on this site on June 28th of 2024 as per Mr Klein The Works anticipated to be completed onon about November TW November 8th of 2024 uh as the site has not yet functioned at full capacity as a school bus depot it didn't seem to make sense to perform the required traffic study at this time uh therefore in order to comply with the condition of the approval namely to conduct the traffic study after approximately two school cycles the applicant is requesting that the deadline to provide this traffic study be uh extended for an additional two-year period until October 31st of 2026 and as I've stated I have Mr Klein here who's the senior project manager for First Student who's available to any qu answer any questions that the board might have with regard to this project um is the project substantially complete in the eyes of your project and the burrow engineer i' have to defer to Mr Klein I don't know I can speak on behalf of the Town um the job is substantially constructed in conformance with you approve plans and specifications for the project 95% at least 90 above 90 for sure so uh my office and my inspection team as well as the um construction Department we're in a process of uh developing punch list and doing final inspection so we're we're almost at the finish one and the goal of completion is early November before as Mr clein stated in the letter that was submitted to the board anticipated that the work will be done by November 8th of 2024 okay and at that point you will be 100% capacity on site at that point we would be permitted if I understand the the if I recall the resolution correctly we'd be permitted to put 40 buses on the site at that point how many buses are on the site today I'd have to defer to Mr Clint why don't we have Mr we will memorialize Mr clein Miss W sure if you would raise your right hand you swear tell the truth all truth nothing but the truth I do thank you your name and address for the record Michael Klein C uh the address yes address 191 uh Rosal Park Street uh 8th floor Cincinnati Ohio and if you can just tell us your relation to the project uh I'm the senior property projects manager for all the first student does first student own the parcel or are you a tenant of the parcel we are a tenant of the parcel who owns the parcel uh iron horn Enterprises I I believe it's under Remington LLC and why don't you tell us about the current capacity and the future capacity the current capacity uh we were abiding by the conditions that were stated no more than 25 buses on site at any time during uh the approval processes and going through the construction approval uh going through the construction stage stage now the final approval was 40 buses and that's where the 40 bus number so so you have 20 or 25 buses on site operating today navigating through the the construction site I believe so yes so where are the B But ultimately during the construction phase we were parking at different parking lots throughout the city tell us about the different part paring Lots throughout the city where where are the Surplus buses since you you do not have the capacity for 40 on site today and hopefully it's November 4th or first week of November where are the balanced buses for and do you have a permit for the balanced buses if they're even in Berkeley Heights uh I do not know the answer to that I can I can get with our operations team I know they were parking at a a um pool facility can I jump in they were parking at the swim club adjacent Toca no um by uh col colum Middle School oh the pool down here on correct and I I Al I also believe not totally sure maybe up by noia NOA I think up by noia off Mountain Avenue I think okay so you have two or three sites are there permits that were issued by the zoning official to house the buses on a temporary condition I do not know that that was all done at a local uh members of the board Mr deia questions or comments okay Mr Ringwood and just out of curiosity if if the if everything's going to be complete on November 8th why a two-year extension versus something shorter when once you get to 40 buses on site you can do the traffic study if I can answer that question what the board requested and required was that after two school cycles which would be a school year you would have the traffic study so that you'd have sufficient information I would imagine to render a study if you did it immediately thereafter it wouldn't be a correct or proper stud so you're asking for two additional Cycles which would be then when you're at full operation for the two that that's correct and that's the original request in the approval of my letter back to the board Mr salvaro Since you're speaking we I I do recall some comments about a restriction on a leftand movement towards Timber does does that ring a bell to you or is the bus movement a right hand turn and its decision at the corner of Snider and uh you know what chairman I I I don't recall I I mean I do recall that discussion I don't I'm not sure if that restriction is active Okay uh there is a sign that posted that restricts a left-hand movement if you're going if you're traveling up Russo towards the YMCA it's encouraging motorists to turn to make it right in yeah there was a lot of discussion even before this application because there was truck traffic that was going up through Timber and obviously we we wanted those heavy vehicles to stay on the uh the county road or the the more heavy traffic roads such as Snider to Mountain Andor Springfield back uh up to the County Road so pushing them onto the county roads that's correct have condition of approval it was the afan its employee shall comply with all applicable traffic signage including the prohibition of lefts out of the driveway and onto Locust AV so that's in the resolution that's and uh I believe that New Providence on Union Avenue since they have jurisdiction there uh limits access of tonage on trucks that's correct thank you Mr storus no questions Mr Sylvester no questions Mr par questions at this time Mr Dean no I'm good and Mr Kon yes I didn't go back and read the resolution from why are we doing the traffic study I mean if it's I'm just confusing on what we're looking for out of the traffic study since we've already got the no turn and it's just an impact to uh the level service of the local roads in that area when they present it because it's a I'm just trying to figure out what we're going to do with it well it's going to be it's going to be submitted to my office and I'm going to review it from a capacity standpoint and Analysis for the local roads and assuming the level service doesn't change mean it doesn't become more negative then it's going to be filed away and the application will just proceed forward and the use will just proceed forward as approved and if it is negative do we go back from 40 to 25 buses we'll have to come back before this board and have a discussion got it U so my question then it really revolves around parking one of the things that we had talked about during during uh your transfer onto the property was that the drivers wouldn't park up and down the street and impacted their businesses that is the bus came out car would fill that spot it looks like the drivers are parking on the street how do we make that adjustment I don't know the answer but I would imagine it has something to do with the construction that's ongoing at this time but I I defer to Mr Clin that is correct so due to the construction we've been parking on the street okay are they going to then not after November 7th or 8th are are we unable to do so you're part of the The View was was that one of the conditions the arrangement was two years ago when we met here and our children that a bus operator would take their personal vehicle on site idle the bus move the bus up Park in the stall with their personal vehicle take care of the student service come back or keep the bus idle somewhere else and then at the end of the day they would leave so 100% of the parking was on the 40 R site right and and what we normally do on our sites in this particular case we call it waving where they slowly come in and as employees come in to pick up their buses the the bus will come out and the next employee car will go there so sometimes we'll do it one for one like if they if they pull in and there's one bus and that's their bus and they pull their bus out and P pull their car in but usually it's a wave uh as it goes throughout the morning and then the same thing in the afternoon okay so your testimony is that 100% of the parking for both the buses and the employees will be on site according to our conditions that we approved yes okay thank you very Mr Co any any Miss wolf for me okay thank you is I'm sorry one thing is that enough Clarity for the applicant I know in the letter you asked for what we would be looking for in the traffic study do you have enough guidance we we're going to abide by the terms of the resolution and it makes sense that we would submit it the burrow or the township would review it if there's an issue with the the numbers that are that are given in the report then we'd come back before the board notice the public so that they could have an opportunity to or for their you know what you're studying okay perfect question sure now I recall there was a conversation way back when about something with the motor vehicle inspections taking place on the side street or something along those lines that's a great point I do recall one of your professional if you want to elaborate I don't want to steal your thunder no you can go ahead I just remember we we do recall two years ago when we met here in October that there was performance tests on the the bus and the maintenance of the bus skid tests Etc is that being taken place on a public right way or is that activity being taken place within the confines of your par we will now that the site has been developed it will take place at 4 e bril in the event that you do need to perform some type of test you are strongly encouraged to negotiate with a private lot or discuss the same with the Berkeley he the police department if they need to close down a road so you can safely perform your your Maneuvers in the best interest of the students we understand that but we can't have any activities within the public right of way fully understood and typically we matter of safe and uh and typically and typically we do that in a vacant parking lot so and just to be aware you did have a condition that the applicant shall conduct all maintenance and repair activities within the confines of the existing building and shall not conduct such activities in the parking lot just you know that's correct Mr PR did that satisfy your y sure D thanks with that said uh may I have a motion on a two-year extension considering the comments from this evening Mr tiia I'll make a motion the second by Mr buler I second that thank you and a roll call on that considering the two-year extension with the conditions as outlined and the borrow Engineers comments regarding the uh two-year program on a review Mr Sullivan yes Mr coell yes Mr deia yes Mr R yes Mr Sylvester yes Mr yes yes motion carries 7 Z thank you very much thank you very much have a nice evening have a safe holiday moving on to our next application carried from July 25th we have application 2318 and Deb Gil Bowski located at 20 Overhill way block 351 lot 11 and I believe we are going to discuss a two-part application which will be grading and a retaining wall and then uh overage on imperious coverage considering a rear yard accessory Project M wolf I believe both have been sworn in the past so far it's not though so if I could just swear would you raise your right hand you SAR to tell the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth I do and thank you very much for joining us I know we've been back and forth throughout the past year and can you please bring us up to date on the latest on your project and your Discovery sure so I think we um had last left here with items that we need to send to all of you those were sent to Connie who had sent that to you um which was a Asis build plan there were ticket there were permits that we had that um we resent um so we just wanted to make sure that everything we sent through for the greeting and the retaining wall was efficient for the board and I'd like to defer to Mr Saro regarding the engineering I I know that you and Mr bako have been working closely together over the past year plus regarding this topic and we are discussing a twart and let's talk about the retaining wall change in grade storm water management if applicable at this point and if you could please provide some comment Mr s sure no problem Mr chairman so uh to your point so um we'll go through the phase one part of the project um which was a retaining wall and and uh you know grading manipulation on the property uh the applicant did submit for a premit through the zoning department which was approved to build a wall and grade the property um there was an engineer signed drawing um submitted to the building department at that time which is acceptable normal standard practice um back in the day I was asked to come out and visit the property because there was um a a neighbor complaint I guess at one point in time from a potential encroachment and may maybe uh some Landscaping that was Disturbed uh but as regarding the wall and the grading there you know the town's got no objection to that uh the information that was submitted over the last 24 hours the tickets where the material came from um you know uh non non applicable determination soy Ro cment Control District where it's less than 5,000 square F feet so the town's all on board with all that information um you know obviously if there's still an issue with some drainage out there I'll have you know no no problem going back out uh with the applicant and any other the neighbors to see um if it's not draining properly as appropriate or as originally intended so at this point the town really has no issue with what was built out there regarding the wall in the grading okay now from a drainage point of view phase one is considered at 0% increase in impervious coverage yeah I mean listen there's a there's a there's a minor in tolerance not 800 square yeah it's a minimal it's di Minimus because basic we're only talking about you know the square foot area wall of the wall that's correct so it's very di Minimus to the work that was proposed out there so there's no there's no stor and mitigation that would be required though though I know um there was a footing a footing drain that was put in which is typical for a wall um uh of that type of design which basically collects water underground um it seeps into the into the into the raise grade um comes into the drainage pipe that's behind the wall on the prop subject property and it basically once if it collects enough it will discharge and weep out into a swell that's in a rear yard and uh it flows in the same direction that it did prior to the construction being built so and it meant the somerset soils the project met the somerset soils criteria it did from when I se in a file and and I'll defer to the applicants to to put it on the record but there's a non-applicable determination from soy Roan sedent control that says there are less than 5,000 square feet so they don't have jurisdiction over it but maybe the applicants can put that on record and the quality of the soil was within an acceptable tolerance well well listen the there there are tickets from chadam Stone and Earth uh products out of of Wang in chadam which is a local supplier to to work similar to this which the town has accepted on many other applications um the town isn't really in the business of Che checking all this material to make sure if it's you know clean or dirty I hate to say that on a residential property it's up to the homeowner and also the vendor that they hire but the town is satisfied for the information that we have relative to that so and is the town what is the town limit as far as area coverage you talking about for soil movement yes um there is a soil movement ordinance that dictates 20 50 cubic yards of material that um the town can administratively approve that without going before the planning board and I believe the tickets as presented was roughly 88 cubic yards not which is significantly less than 250 okay and 88 cubic yards as far as a tandem truck 88 a Ty typical a typ I was delivering soil to typical a typical truck and holds uh 10 to 12 to let's say it's 15 yards but let's just say it's 10 yards just for um an average number 88 let's call it 90 yards material 10 yards a truck nine trucks on an average just just an average right it could be eight or seven you know Mr Mrs galowski any further comment regarding phase one board members uh Mr satures questions or comments for the guil bskis or our engineering professional no questions Mr Sylvester no question questions Mr parita no good Mr Ringwood I'm good thank you Mr deia so so you did have the soil sample we didn't have the soil we didn't do the core soil samp no we submitted the tickets just just the tickets and but there there was a sample test submitted there was we did submit a sample test you asked for a core soil sample test we submitted yeah so we did submit a soil test and it was within accept that that's that's correct Mr no I'm good Mr Kell all good I'd like to make a motion to open up the meeting to members of the public that have yes Mr um I would say we don't discuss project one with the public and I say that because they're not here for for project one right so they applied for a zoning permit to put soil and a wall in they were provided that permit and they have met all of the criteria that they had said they would so if we weren't looking at a second part of this application we would never be discussing the first part of the application and I don't want to blend the two together right because our our whole thing on that first part was just making sure uh permits were pulled in it was done right and according to the township engineer and all the paperwork received everything seems clean so that's my own we it's from a legal aspect I'm going to defer to Legal counil I coms right we're gonna but the first project is not before the board and I say that because the first project got a zoning permit from the town and they've met every criteria so they didn't need to come here for the first part because they got a zoning permit which allowed them to grade and build a wall and they've graded and built the wall according to the plan and by the township engineer has fund so the board isn't really looking at that project uh the only reason that ever came up is because it kind of got mixed in with the original project or the second project right on how we got there so again we I'll lean on you but I don't think we're here really discussing that the reason they're here discussing it is just to say we did all the things we were supposed to do to get past that hurdle to talk about our patio I would agree with that I think the board's jurisdiction is limited to the increase in coverage here they're not seeking any variances for this grading in the wall so I I agree with Mr Co and can I also jump in chairman so if there's an issue with someone or a few individuals from the public that has an issue with the wall and the soil or whatever how was graded out there everyone knows where my office is it's right down the right down the hall on the first floor um always available um here parttime during the week but I'll certainly hear your you know your uh talk about it now I I think they I'm not I'm not going to you know um would duplicate the board attorney's comments but we're going to afford the members of the public an opportunity for full compliments regarding both phases Mr Mrs Gil Bowski let's move on to phase two but we reserve the opportunity for the public to ask questions or comments of the gilis our professionals and any of the professionals that the gilis have representing them when the moment is appropriate with that said let's move on to phase two so we're here this evening regarding an overage on coverage for an accessory use we greater than 10% and possibly triggered greater than the total if you can tell us what is before us this evening what the percentage and what the total uh other percentage the total yeah so we we put in right so we put in a zoning application for patio and Grilling area um we got the zoning violation um we submitted you know obviously the proposed off of and you guys have all this the existing and the proposed um so recently you know we obviously know we're over the over the lock coverage on this uh we know that there's storm water man man agement mitigation that needs to be done as a result of this uh we recently spoke with the town engineer in regards to a proposal for storm water management of the patio um and it is up for his review uh and we did we did have that conversation earlier this week what is the total percent over okay sorry um total existing coverage is 26.4 that's the Improvement coverage correct that's the total existing lock coverage um you want for the building and structur is that yeah you're you're at 26.4 and the other coverage we went from zero because you had a deck to 800 or some odd number no we went so we went from existing other coverage of 12.06 to 16.73% okay so we increased it by 45% M which brought you to a total number of is it 26.4 or is it the total existing lock coverage was 26.4 and what is it today today is 31.08 okay so the two that you're looking for are the 16% you had 12 it's 16 so that automatic that's a variance and we went we are 25% we went 20 6% existing and we've bumped it up to 31.08 right so your requests for Relief per tombacco are for 3108 total and 16 in change for the other coverage correct which is the patio feature the retaining wall no it's just the patio and Grilling area and the retain there's a the retaining wall qualifies towards okay you know the the the width of the block times the the L what is the area size of your 15,000 squet 20,000 it's uh 15,990 squ you're in the r 20 the minimum lot size is 20,000 so you're undersized from the get go correct okay this was called a cluster development in the 80s and when the developers saw the land they they the town worked with the developers what they were doing is trying to avoid cookie cutter style developments and create something with healing and no two lots are the same in your area all and some of the other streets sunsets High land Circle I'm trying to I'm trying to remember all the streets up there so you're in a unique situation where you don't you have 15 almost 16,000 Square ft it's a cluster development your next door neighbors probably 14 the next door neighbor on the other side may be 18 so the numbers change Holly Muse may offer uh larger size Parcels but there are other Provisions within the Holly Muse area I know there are there are preservation easements Etc so we are at 5990 we're at 31.08 we are at 16 and change Mr satures do you have any comments regarding the overrun coverage regarding the patio feature and the barbecue no Mr Delia no just that we're a little higher and I'd like to see especially with the post lot coverage and just for the record when the Low's purchase the project they were at 12.06 before any change for the other coverage over you were over automat it could have been the driveway it could have been a patio or some feature that may have been added after the the approvals because it was probably held to 24. 99999 when the I think Dan record may have uh been involved or ER development this project Mr K I don't have any comments or questions right now Mr Sylvester no comments Mr R my my only comment is you know given what's happening um I would like to see the the total coverage be reduced a little bit and Mr Ringwood would you feel more comfortable at a number less than 30% yes so potenti should this application pass the board May request a reduction in the overall size of the patio the barbecue feature something some other maybe the trimming the driveway creating more green space on the project should this application pass uh with that said I'd like to make a motion to open up the meeting to members of the public that have a question or comment regarding 20 Overhill may have a motion by Mr perita I make a motion to open members of the public have a second by Mr Delia second the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment regarding our application before us at 20 Overhill Mr ler did you have a comment before we open her up to the public I'm sorry didn't see you back there okay why don't we introduce our environmental EAS on Mr Richard ler that may have comments regarding this particular application it is appropriate at this time so Mr ler if you'd like to comment on 20 Hill the floor is yours before we open up to members of the public I know it's a long walk come on down and if I could just swear you in if you ra your right again you swear tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do thank you and your name and address Richard 49 7th Avenue I just lost my my no not my voice the page that I was on with the the recommendation of the um 20 give me a second see if I can redo it uh there we go uh so our recommendations coming back uh going back to April 20 24 um and um in general the environmental commission is trying to uh make it a regular uh policy to try to retain storm water on on the property if it's possible to do that uh the reason for that is that storm water runoff coming off of uh the down spouts and off of the Longs is causing problems with flooding down downhill this particular uh property is up off of Mountain Avenue it's up high so that runoff is going to go downhill it's going to affect uh people that are downhill from the property and so we always recommend uh retaining storm water on the property with green infrastructure so we have a situation where there's 31% uh over uh the lot coverage and we recommend that there be green infrastructure to retain that on the property even if the property were under the total uh coverage if someone is constructing we still would recommend that they retain stor morar on the property with green infrastructure that's what's you know part of what is causing flooding sure flooding is coming off of streets and driveways uh but you need to realize that 20 30 years ago maybe longer uh the township engineer probably knows the history better the attitude was get the water off the property let the uh down spouts drain to the street and if you walk around town and you look in catch basins you will find down spouts that are emptying directly into the catch Basin which means it's going directly into the sewers and that means heavy when there's a heavy rainfall that rain is rushing downhill that's part of what's causing flooding in the township not just the existence of those storm water pipes uh it's all of the rushing of the water that's coming off the property you have a a light rain you know a quarter inch of less okay probably doesn't get to run off but any uh rain that's over an inch and a quarter that's uh what do we call that the um 100e flood no not 100 year flood um help me tell the an inch and a quarter 25 no no is it 25 year could be 15 15 year but an inch and a quarter is is common and and this uh year we had five inches and some towns had nine inches of rainfall when that that large amount of rain comes down that's causing the flooding uh and we're trying to uh promote this policy of retaining the storm water on on the property so my question is did uh did the town uh reach an agreement with the homeowner on storm water retention of the property and how that's being done I I can answer that so there there was a submission by the applicant um they have a recharge trench with pipe and stone obviously similar to a seage tank has not been reviewed yet um subject to this meeting um quite frankly I don't want to burn the applicant's ESC account if this happens to go in a wrong direction so um right now that's the proposal that's before my office which I have not reviewed yet so but there is someware mitigation proposed has not been reviewed can you please confirm the total area that you took a Peak at I you have well B team to a complete yeah know B basically the mitigation would be required for the additional impervious coverage on the property which is anywhere from 7 to 800 plus square feet I guess I with a 3 rain event and then that that develops a you know a VI calculation of water and then that's how we figure out what we want to try to store and get into the ground before it goes into um the town system somewhere Downstream thank you Mr L we appreciate it with that said uh the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment regarding 20 Overhill we have our first resident you can please come up introduce yourself and Amanda will provide some of the formalities sure Jim M and what's your address one Holly Muse berley Heights if you raise your right hand you swear tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you thank you go ahead so um I met my neighbors today first time in two years that's good right uh I'm generally supportive of people improving their yards and their homes I got no problem with that I've done it myself work with the town a lot over the years in terms of permits inspections and the like you know I missed the last two meetings I did go back and watch them online uh again with work and everything else I couldn't be here the camera puts on 10 pounds the camera you guys look great on the camera though I got to tell you so I'm coming up to speed quick rich just finished a project at my house house he's been kind of keeping me up to date in terms of what was going on and back and forth and whatnot and from what I understand and what I glean from the videos online for the last two meetings there's been several things that were done without permit and now we're trying to remediate and rectify it after the fact okay so today Rich comes over we're going to string a line on the property line and he's met with some harsh you know welcoming you know what are you doing you're trespassing whatnot right so he comes in and gets me so I go outside and my my face H the floor when I realized they've encroached like 10 ft onto my property okay the back of my property is got a 10 foot buffer easement it's a buffer easement I think the last meeting we were talking about a driftway easement I think it's called the driftway in your area it's like I I've got uh I've got the you want to take a look at these as I speak I got the buffer reement with me buffer reement says basically it's a 10- foot buffer easement on the whole back of Holly mwes that buds up to Overhill two principal things fence or Landscaping to create a natural buffer all the trees that were taken down between my house and my neighbor Joyce's house were on our property we're talking do dozen plus trees never once knocked on the door never heard anything and so I said to myself how would the town approve all these tree permits usually I've dealt with bako in the tree permit process you got to Mark the trees with ribbons people come out and inspect they look at where is it on the property is it on your lot is it your neighbor's lot right so I'm very confused in terms of how all these trees just got wiped out okay now I go there today and it's clear to me that they are 10 feet over the property line I've got 10 feet of river rock on my property no one said boo to me my big problem is where the wall is there's a section in the code around drainage there used to be a Swale in that yard all that water coming down from Mountain Avenue you got two houses above 20 Overhill the swell would take it and the house right behind me he got the big catch Basin the wall is sitting smack Deb in the swell says oh that's interesting so where's the swell now well guess what they they kind of recreated the swell but now it's on my property I already have a swell on the other side of the tree line all the Holly Muse house come into my yard there's a catch Bas in my yard that goes to the house behind me that goes out to the pit around the street and so I just don't know how when you do a project like this you got to get it staked out got to have it drawn on the plans I've gone through it three four times now how did this get approved because there is a specific code right it's uh section uh section 3111 you guys are probably familiar with it retaining walls pools shed and like structures shall not be constructed within established Wells well guess what we got we've got a big old retaining wall in the Swale and I think based on their stake I don't know if it's surveyed or not they've got like a foot left so my question now is where is their water going to the to the best of my knowledge the gski can confirm this was the property restate during this process I believe it was was did you have your property restate I had a pen in my corner go ahead to me yeah the the is what I submitted the as built survey okay as built as built surve and the and the and the the POR but the property the project the property was not restate so there's a question between the McAn project and your property of where the survey line is Saro I know we've got an unusual situation with a driftway a driftway is a common Zone can you provide a little bit of comment regarding I know what a drift way is but if you for the record if you can provide drift my opion driftway was a common area that you just heed the rocks in to keep your your your yard free of yeah basically it's a Conservation Area it's kind of what it is right so yeah I'm sorry you want to see it you want to see if you want to give it to me I'll take it so it's Mark that we'll take a look you read it what does it say I'm not going to read it publicly not a drift way it's a buffer e mint Holly Muse fences with trees so I'm angry because I've had a dozen mature trees taken down and it's not as easy as saying oh I'll go plant you a new tree those trees are 30 years old in addition to taking the trees down I put in these Norwegian spruces many years ago cost me tens of thousands of dollars what did they do they scalped the entire back of my trees 10 ft on my property 10t on my property those trees now are ball to the trunk and guess what those branches don't regrow on those trees so there's significant damage to my property I want to know who inspected the tree removal who inspected the layout of the wall relative to this drainage issue why do I have 10et of river rock on my property okay and when those Rocks come off my property how do they have enough room to reput the swell on their side of the proper line which is where it was so I don't know what was approved I like how you bifurcated it all that's closed we can't talk about it anymore no I I'm not happy it's not good so sympathize with your situation the challenge for this board specific to your situation is they applied for something they were given approval to do that project whether they did the project the proper way or not is something for the township zoning officer to go out and inspect this board can't challenge that they were it's like someone saying Hey I want to put a fence zoning Officer says where you say I'm going to put it on my property and he says okay do it and if you don't do it right that's on you the homeowner and if a neighbor complains they go to the zoning officer and take it back but not that's not yes because it's not here so that's who you'd have to speak to is Tom B and I don't know how the staking of the wall relative to this provision in the zoning code that's say you can't just back fill a Swale and put a wall on a Swale cuz all that water now is coming my way so I don't know how that got approved and again I'm a nice guy I'm an easygoing guy I don't want to give anybody a problem but it's like I get a bad attitude he's flipping the bird to my wife he's flipping the bird to Rich you know what at some point it's like no I don't think so I'm a nice guy easy going but this has been done completely wrong the soil I think I heard on the last call all seven dump trucks soil were removed and new fresh soil came from the yard I don't think so okay there's been lies here you guys been lied to okay and I'm calling it out and I don't like what's going on if I got to get an attorney because I gotta tell you I got there's going to need to be a lot of planting of trees mature trees back there to put it back to the way it was I I would start with a zoning officer yeah can I jump offic can I jump in commissioner you you have to speak to Tom Baka the zoning officer who's also by the way sir is the code enforcement officer that's the person you need to speak with well and I honestly Mr I I sir I can um I I'm not going to argue with you publicly but I can start laying a groundw work with the code enforcement officer for you if you like I'll do it okay call them out tomorrow but it's been a royal disaster I'm not happy if I got to get attorneys involved I'll get attorneys involved I think I think what Mr K was trying to say while the board empathizes with you we we approve something it's not how did you approve it in e in the drainage SW we didn't so so it's somebody else's responsibility within the town to ensure that they construct whatever they're constructing walls houses second stories whatever it is if we approve it it's then other people in the town's responsibility make sure that they comply with all code and and the variances that were approved and and all those things that's beyond the board's jurisdiction I get it I'll take it up with time that's accurate so if if there's if there's an encroachment issue which obviously you're presenting tonight then we need to speak with the code enforcement officer very good as soon as you anything else while you're here do you have any comments on the proposed patio barbecue group probably not a good night to ask me so so like I said am I better off from that project or worse off is Joyce better off or worse off we're worse off they're better off that's the way it should work you know again maybe something was approved and what was built was not what was approved if you are standing in your backyard what is the height of the wall that you're looking at in the corner you want to see some pictures if you would like to submit them for evidence but is it is it Fe is 2et probably almost four feet probably probably buffer exhibit 01 and then those will be them to Mr Kell and have him tell me how many how many there are and then we'll mark it as a compendium of o2 I've got lower line parcel now so there's there's a minimum of a 4ot difference in grade from what you experienced two years ago back corner is probably up to my shoulders there's another provision in the code if the wall is five feet it needs to be at least that much off the property line and it's not and and your your parcel is in in the soup bow of that community and the grade has been manipulated so much that it's almost over the buffer BM at this point you get a hard rain back there that is coming into Joyce's yard it's coming into my yard I already take a lot of water and you have a conservation easement your project that floods like have trees been compromised in the past year from the project yes my trees do you in your opinion yeah I mean I've got some mature well there there are trees missing but the trees in the conservation easement may this is on the other side of the property Mr did you take those photographs I did you know when [Music] uh there's a mix of photos from today and uh relatively recently I don't have the dates but they re so who do I talk to to get all the river rock off my properties that Tom as well yeah no s yes definitely speak to code enforcement offer you know basically stipulating you have an encroachment issue and it will be looked into a I don't know how they're going to remedy the Swale issue they don't have enough left that will be discussed with code enforcement understood and you know you've got Mountain you got two houses there's a lot of water coming down there so now you got the SW the M do you know your neighbors on the mountain is that is that the penic property is that where the swell comes down and goes down through Hill and Holly one house behind Overhill the White House it's got the driveway and then it's it picks up steam all the way down because you can there's a there's a point of Mountain Avenue where you can see the drift way all the way to the conservation it's over at section Mike can you pass thank you sorry that's all I have thank you very much for joining us this evening is there another member of the public that has a question or comment regarding 20 Overhill raise your right hand you swear yes I'm sorry your name was rich Bower and your address de be please thank you to try and maybe clear up the buffer and the driftway and what it's called I got a copy from Pig engineering today of the original Subdivision map page I remember years ago so there's a 20 foot driftway easement that runs up the back of mcc's property Johnson's property all the way up to Mountain up to Mountain there's a 10 foot buffer which is the planting part that's at the property all these buffers are on their property is that excuse me rich is that 10 foot part of the 20 foot or is it it's an addition to the 20 foot part of the to so the first 10 ft off the back property line is this buffer that's supposed to be planted if you go there now and there's two stakes back there that the owner says that's the property line so let's assume that's correct if you you know run a line between the two of them the majority of the Swale that's been built is on Mrs Johnson's property and MC property it's not on their property there's maybe two or three feet between the line and the wall now we met out there with Tom Baka one point and I thought the wall from what I heard was getting pushed back into their property to allow for the swell if you look at it now it's not there is no place to put a swell there now yeah I don't remember the wall being pushed back cuz I'm not sure if i' ever encroached on private property other than but the wall didn't encroach but it was where the no yeah the original I mean we have to go through them at semantics of it but the original complaint was encroachment and also drainage runoff going on to uh uh the second swell on the opposite side where the go would block that swell correct if you go now and site where the water comes down from the other properties that's where the wall is the swell is now on their property but you're going to have to work with the surveyor at somebody's expense to have the property surveyed so the stakes that are in there you know are set by a surveyor not by any home who who set the stakes that are out there now we submitted the as buil we get that who put the stakes in the ground so when you have someone do so they came out and set okay so there's a certified engineer surve they're surve so if they're accurate you know I'll meet you and Tom and Jim could be there and we can look at which is what I mentioned earlier yes right as to what's been uh you know where the swell was actually built and like Jim said the pine trees I know by law you can go on your property line and cut your neighbor's branches off that are hanging on your property he's got a tree that was 11 ft back from the property line they went right up the tree took all the limbs off that was in this buffer so I don't know what you do about that uh and then I don't know if it makes a difference when you say this is a two-part application it's really a one application they went in started the work put the patio in that's when you guys came up and caught them and said you know the wall wasn't in at that time it's one project not two it was all done together wasn't like they went saying it's two is because they applied for his own wall and grading which they received from the town the patio they applied for after whether they're doing it because they got caught or whatever they applied for that second so that what they were issued by the zoning officer was a permit to put in a wall and Grading right and that was approved by the town whether they did it right wrong or indifferent is not for us to decide but that was permitted by the town zoning officer said here's your permit here you go you could do this project as submitted and they did according that so now they got called putting in a patio so they're here asking for forgiveness on the p PA which is what we're going to but when you combine the two it gets into Union Somerset Soil Conservation it gets into other things well they they did the soil tickets they had the soil commission conserv the soil conservation which does inspections and whatever else they did they they submitted their application for it and we've got an application and they gave you a waiver that's correct the district gave the waiver is on because they're under the 5,000 sare fet the are over you don't get the waiver spoke to the district inspector we gave them the bu we gave them the initial survey they gave us the right was one application that's all any other members of the public was there any other member of the public that out a question or comment oh I've got one other question here so one of Joyce's concerns is there is a large dead tree okay so Amanda the applicant should speak yeah otherwise it's kind of like so if the if the neighbor would like to come up and introduce herself with a question or comment now is the appropriate time because another Resident cannot represent you so if you would like to come up and make a comment the clock is ticking if I can just swear you in if you raise your right hand you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes and your name and address Joyce Johnson three Holly Muse I'm another one that backs up to 20 over see I know you were here a couple of months ago welcome back and okay well please feel free to share your comments or your question well nothing has been done in regard to what do we do about all these trees that were affected Etc Deb did come over one day Etc and she said well we could put a couple of trees in and I said well if I'm going to put trees in I'm not going to put a little three to four foot tree yet I got to be a substantial s and I have never heard a word since so this has been a couple of months or I think when we met last in April or May I do recall M Gil Bowski willing to provide some additional buffer and was willing to meet with you but I think since we're in neutral zone with this application right now no action has been taken because there hasn't been a directive or a decision the question is with their survey right that did we can we look that their survey it's a great question and I have a feeling find legal council and our engineer that the the delbowski property will need to be restak to ensure exactly where the property lines are because there's an issue with encroachment regarding River Rock removal of trees um mulch areas Etc so I had asked Jim next door and he said they had a a steak at one time but it got buried somewhere in the whole proc anything that happen you know lawn ples flip off Parts sometimes if it's a popsicle stick they don't last very long but it sounds like we will not be able to make a decision tonight and I have feeling the board is going to lean on a restating of the property because we're in a situation where we're not 100% sure where the parcel lines are yeah Mr Saro comment yeah no you're you're accurate uh chairman um and obviously when Neighbors come in to talk to Mr B I'm sure that'll be suggested on on his behalf so okay M John if you'd like a copy of exer you can have mine if that helps you I don't they're public documents yeah it's all exactly are you in the office I will not be but I'll be there next week but you can call me if You' like to obviously we've spoken many times so I have a question do they measure from the back corner of the house by the feet to go out to where the property supp I'm I I know the answer but I'm going to defer to our engineering professional of how property lines it's always a plus or minus in the world of engineering but I'm GNA let Tom I know when I do zoning and Land Management reviews I measure from points of homes this the right of way is a whole another issue but let's talk about the rear of the yeah typically typically you you'll measure from above above ground planimetric features whether it's a corner of the house um it could be utility fall on the property it could be a storm sewer manhole or some some you know something along those lines um if the property actually had Corners already staked and or monuments buried in the ground which is found on the survey they can pull off of that so I'm not quite sure um how was originally Stak when the work was going on um but there are plan above ground planimetric features to to measure from off the property off the house that is definitely one of the features to measure from yes okay so I can hang on to this you can keep that thank you thank you see no other members of the public I'll make a motion to close to members of the public have a second by Mr satures second all in favor meeting is now closed at this moment to members of the public that have a question or comment um the board is in a position where we cannot make a decision this evening yes Mr K but we're we're only hearing the patio everything else as tough as it may be is not in our purview right all that other stuff is between the the zoning officer draining with engineering it's again as tough as it may be right wrong or indifferent what we're here tonight is to judge the patio and the overage and and the coverage we we can talk about that but everything else was perit however there are uncertainties regarding the encroachment onto we can't approve an application if there's an encroachment onto a neighboring for but it wouldn't be the patio that's encroaching the patio is just the patio right now we may deny or approve or modify the patio but at the same time that would be then you know the the yard may change but that's not the patio what we're looking at is the patio and coverage if the zoning officer goes out see the stakes are set wrong or or something encroaches in something and they've got to change a wall raing River Rock whatever that may be that was permitted through the town and approved although I will say one thing Mr and I don't know if this matters to anybody but if what we're using to determine our percentages of lot coverage are incorrect because they're overstating their lot coverage and that's not where the real property line is then that does have a bearing on anything that we determine in terms of their approval for variances but lock coverage wouldn't come from where they were stake the lock coverage come from have come from the pl the prior I several board members asked to see something with the coverage reduce no no that's what I'm saying we can discuss the patio talk about reduction a patio reduction of figuring out how to get but it boils down to 240 what are we going to be able to see what reductions is will make yeah it's dway The Hardscape that's on the property is is not near the wall so what we be altering or asking to alter would be around the house not in the rear of the yard the square foot area the property aare area the property right we we have to see what they're willing to remove to get the coverage down and know what that number is well you would have to before we vote right we would have to look at I mean if we're trying to get it under 30 29.2% would be 240 ft 240t of hardcap coverage is 240t of hardcap coverage at at this moment we there there are multiple sidebar conversations taking place I'd like to take a five minute recess on this application we it is 808 808 let's meet back at 8:15 we will take a pause momentarily and we will continue 20 Overhill in seven minutes thank you [Music] all right we are back in Action I've read the wrong phone one more time 8:15 on the FL we are back thank you very much we are continuing our application at 2318 20 Overhill um after review the lot size is the lot size it's 15,000 and change 15990 Square ft based on the 7142 for survey there is clearly an encroachment of river rock Etc onto the neighboring Parcels with that said it becomes a zoning Enforcement issue for anything beyond the limits of the parcel in question the galowski have an opportunity to pursue their variant for overage on coverage for other coverage plus the Improvement coverage so that is what's before this board this evening in the event that there is encroachments and there is significant evidence that points to River Rock mulch uh potentially tree removal that would be subject to the zoning code enforcement official and Mr s Faro will touch base with Mr bako tomorrow morning when he sees him in the office so moving on to this application the application right now before us is a determination of whether or not the patio and barbecue feature will be improve approved this evening with that said I'd like to turn it back over to the Bowski for a final summation I don't think we have anything really else to say other you know we want to keep the patio want to keep it's 7 or 800 foot patio we were at 12 we went up to 16 we were at 26 for and we're at 31.08 is the goal this even is there any opportunity to remove portions of the patio that exists the barbecue area the driveway or walkway to reduce the impervious coverage to less than 30% we'd be looking at meting about 240 square foot of coverage to remove so whether patio driveway 240 foot about a percent and a half down to under 30 about 29.5% so I don't know if you're looking at your patio if the barbecue area can be removed at a piece of your drive but again about 2004et so 240 square foot 12 by 12 by 20 it can come from different areas again you know you know your parcel where does that get us to get 29 29.5% which was and what's that in to Mr ringwood's Point Mr Ringwood felt a little bit though he's hasn't made a final determination felt a little bit more comfortable as we do with percents less than 30 as a rule 25% is the maximum and there's no such thing as a magic number between 25 and 30% so you were encouraged by one board member to reduce the imperious coverage Mr Coello did a calculation and it's it's a reduction of approximately 240 feet which could be driveway could be walkway could be portions of patio however you can elect to say this is what we want it's already there and we want to pursue the variance for 31.08 per. that's entirely up to you I'm just trying to figure out based on an R20 lot which is minimum 599 and it's 20,000 is the minimum but please keep in mind that this was created as a cluster development and no two Parcels are the same you may have a grand parcel and you may have a parcel that's 13,000 fet right around the corner so you're in the middle of the neighborhood as far as so still storm water management has to be baked into all this storm water management applies for anything greater than one square foot above uh usually 200 200 the number for a significant the storm water management doesn't count towards your over your calculation water so again as you look at this and here's how you we have to look at it that this is a brand new application there's no patio there yeah right even though it's a forgiveness application the way we try to Envision this is you're walking in with a blank slate and you're positioning this patio to us and we're saying what we think it should look like without it being there already right so if you're in the tough spot of having paid the money to put something in that may need to be adjusted that wouldn't have had to had we been here before right because some of the things that we do recommend and we spoke about last time is putting in decks which you had because they don't count for coverage and there was a reason why the deck was created in the 80s when the house was was created there was a reason why there was a deck a pervious deck put in place as opposed to got it we get it y so here is something that you may want to take into consideration while the board P vote on the patio uh is pushing this further going home looking at your property deciding where 2 140 plus Square ft would come from to create an opportunity below that 30% line and being able to present because I I do know some of these board members well they're going to want to see right they're not going to just hear hey we'll take 240 off they're going to want to see where is this 240 to do right so that you were going to have to to try to figure out um and in the meantime maybe it's during that time that we you're looking to remove coverage you're working with your neighbors on putting that plan together where the property lines are so if it comes back in front of us and that is cleared up it also may look a little bit better right rather than trying not looking at me trouble no that's why I fig that's what it came across as today it's been very contentious for us with contractors and it's just been we just want to get past this and the 12 by the 12 x 20 or the 240 square foot we definitely can we don't want to by 15 was also 240 okay I you can figure out any combination to get you to 29.5 that provide something to you however I just need to question you that it is not a guarantee if you reduce it to 29.5 it's not a slam dunk approval across the board the board members have an opportunity to deliberate putting a pin in this to probably 2025 at this point there is also an opportunity for you to chat with your neighbors and maybe reach some type of happy medium and it may be pulling back that river rock or pulling back that mulch or or nothing however that opportunity is available to you I encourage you as Mr Kell El put um put a pin in it find 240 talk to your neighbors and then we'll see you in 20 yeah we'll talk to time and again 240 doesn't necessarily have to come just from the patio so if there's a way to trim a piece of driveway the the driveway the driveway whatever it Tes no doorway one of the kids bedrooms um M wolf since we are going to carry this I don't think we officially have the days for next year so it's probably appropriate to carry this to the December date since we know what the December date is however we will probably not be heard we will take the December date and carry it to 2025 in January or February because the official C there isn't adopted until January 1 of 202 question so we're we we have to decide on the 240 square foot we come to that meeting say this is what we want to do you tell us yes or no about the patio and and we'll also know about stor we'll have stor you have it's an interesting point if they've reduced by 250 sare feet it changes the flavor of what the engineers's requirements are and that's why I didn't review the drainage plan that was originally submitted thinking or forecasting that this may go you know one way or the other so at that point in time I can do a drainage calculation and review on a on a smaller impervious coverage so one thing I did want to address the reason why we also didn't do trees and everything else is because we don't know where we're landing and that's what I did talk to um Joyce about was you know I don't want to put a tree there and somebody go now take the tree down that's not your property well that's why I made the comment that I we were in April 2 today we weren't quite sure in the neutral zone that's why I want to address it still in the neutral or the drift I don't want to say drift Zone I I I did address it I went over there introduced my kids like I 100% addressed it and I'm sorry I didn't get back to I did price out the tree I have the name of the tree what it's called because I had them come look at it what is it called Norway Norway whisper what Norway sprs spruce um I just I'm not I'm not really comfortable just throwing something up and then there's a and the same thing with the drainage we didn't do it because then it's going to be torn up I mean makes with you and there is a point in the year where it's ridiculous to consider planting correct should this application advance in January 2025 and there is some type of buffer restoration requirements either on your property or on the neighbor's property in perpetuity there will be a reasonable planting schedule arrange for the success of the survival now gsk's leave I mean 240 which is my opinion that brings it down to 29 and a half if if the board has other suggestions I think that they should hear it ahead of time so I don't want them to come back with 240 and like No it should be 26 right so how does everybody sure Mr satures fine with me Mr Degan I'm good with it Mr D 240 is good Mr Ring fine Mr Pera y fine Mr Sylvester and again that was just a straw poll doesn't mean that the board is definitely going to Grant your application just a purpose no that's good starting point okay so we're going to carry to December 12th but more than likely the application will not be heard on December 12th because we have significant commercial applications year on January first couple of days in January we will establish the 202 thank you for joining us this evening thank you very much I guess that's a WRA that's a wrap this evening folks we have our next application 2414 the mlin residence located at 5 wster Drive block 1816 lot 11 it looks like we have the applicant and perhaps a professional we have if you need easel we have boards available for you letting you step up and introduce yourself thank you very much for the record I did review the notice it was sufficient as Department content so the board does have need to hear this chairman am I needed for the next application uh I think Mr Salo I think we are good these are residential applications and we thank you very much for your contribution this evening everyone thank you before I continue I'm sure you're running right out goodbye have a good night everyone time 82 you're right on thank you very much for joining us good evening yes you raise your hand these words tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes and your name and addressin five live and you're the applicant correct the are you going to introduce your applicant or are you going to defer to your professional sure Joseph Kaiser he's my architect me great so we'll we will qualify Mr Kaiser and we'd like the two of you to be available for any questions and comments this evening because it's a standing room only crowd here for five not a bad thing I'll take that Mr Kaiser you raise your right hand you sort tell the truth old truth nothing but the truth yes thank you and if you give your qualifications I am a licensed architect in New Jersey and New York uh I've been for this board uh in 2020 as well as in Summit and Westfield and I like working very is your license in good standing yes thank you when we accept thank you very much for joining us gentlemen and why don't you tell us what brings you before the zoning board uh sounds like we're doing an add level plus project and you're on a corner lot which is a hardship considering two fronts a rear yard a side yard and why don't you tell us what brings you or the zoning board and the exciting Improvement you have planned for a live sure so uh I moved to town with my wife about 12 years ago in March of 2012 we moved here um we had no kids at the time we moved in it was a nice big three-bedroom house and now here we are 12 years later we have three young kids at home so and at what age what are your children's age at what schools are they yes so I have a daughter and two sons who are 11 the other guys turning 10 next week and seven so they're in school Hugh um I'm sorry they're in uh Columbia is my daughter Hughes for my son and Woodruff we're all over the place so sixth grade fourth grade and second grade great thank you very much for joining this even thanks absolutely yeah as as they've gotten older the house has just only gotten smaller my two young boys have been uh bunked up for a while so um yeah we were looking to to move up to hopefully try to uh to expand to be able to fit in it so um we love the neighborhood it it's been great for us my uh my wife was substitute teaching today at uh at woodu elementary I've coaching some of the travel baseball teams and travel teams in town um and uh we certainly love it here we want to be able to stick around here and make a forever home so tell us about it's it's a brick ranch style home yes yes um yep want to come in talk about some of the improvements  all night yeah um so part of why we're before the board today um is the exist it's an existing corner lot as you mentioned and the main issue is with a front yard setback and so it's got two front yard setbacks of course one on Snyder where the it's and that's going to the garage and then one to Webster and both are non-conforming and so with this second floor Edition we're proposing to align with the existing house which is trigging need for a setback this consider this an expansion of pre-existing non-conforming condition or these new variances well so one of them shouldn't be um no well it's triggering for the Portico which now shouldn't trigger for the Portico and the other is the it's exacerbation of an existing non-conform because they're not changing the house it's still 40.7 still 40.7 the only difference is the Portico is coming out and there's no variance for that because it's less than 6 ft yeah that makes it pretty easy I think should be here but they are here so you want to hang out well seem like nice people the the front yard setback is 50 feet right so but it's so the front yard existing condition is 40.7 and that is staying the same the 30 38 is triggered by a portico but it's less than 6 feet the 30 where's the 38 39 but the 39 we're putting a I hate to say this a box on top of a box it's on the we front set in the proposed right because however 38.3 is still less than the 50 ft that's required for the front year setb it it is but but my point is it's an existing condition of 40.7 it's still 40.7 because the ptical no count but it's considered an expansion of a pre-existing yeah so the only we're talking about is the expansion of a preting condition because P doesn't count yes we're all agree right okay so why don't you just quickly run us through the house and we will have several questions regarding the new driveway and the double driveway okay so we're proposing a second floor addition above the main part of the house um so keeping it here trying to give it a little bit more of a colonial this is our setback on Snider so we're not building closer to gr that condition um sorry inter just for the record these are the same plans that were submitted more than 10 days in advance of the hearing yes thank you pictures um so the existing house is three bedrooms and we're going to turn the existing Master Suite into a new family room uh we're turning one of the bedrooms Mak it a little larger to become a study and then we're using the other small bedroom to now become the staircase to the second floor and then the dining room is staying about the same the kitchen the den and the garage are all staying put upstairs we're supposing four bedrooms uh a new master suite with a walk-in closet an onsite bathroom and three modestly sized children's bedrooms boys are going to share a hall bath uh their daughter is going to get her own bathroom and the princess suite and we're adding a laundry room on the second floor small laundry room up there but it's I don't think it's too large of an addition it's makes a lot more space obviously for the family but without it being too excessive into out of proportion in scale for the neighborhood and that's what I putot up this and are we adding a room above the garage no garage stays as a is it a two car garage two-car garage the same roof and we're just really talking about the principal structure yes and you got you have significant side yard on the the the west side of right just know they're also expanding the driveway what was the question I'm sorry we have significant you have significant side yard you got 27 in change on the on the going down the sure yes yes and can you tell us the reason we need to widen the driver yeah so with the goal of this being a forever home I'm just trying to think ahead in terms of what where my kids are going to park so um right now it is a uh the driveway fits two cars so with the goal of you know eventually it's crazy to think that in just five years my daughter will be driving but I'm just trying to think of where they will be uh parking a car and I would love for teenage drivers to not have to be able to do you know any kind of K turn coming out of sniper so just a ple for them to park their car okay so should we consider widening the driveway do you have any objection to closing the driveway apron on Snyder Avenue and utilizing Webster Avenue only as your right of erress the reason being is we are safe roots to school Community um we've had another project on the corner of Harrison where they reoriented the drive driveway and had all of access off of Harrison and avoided Snider Avenue which created a safer Haven where children walking up and down the route created a buffer which provided them with just additional privacy I would be in favor of this application should you consider abandoning that access of Snider Avenue I have no objection with the wider driveway I realize that an Annex is needed if you needs to shoot hoops or you need to jocky other cars but I would use Webster Avenue as your primary R of vehicles I think that it I understand what you're you're going for I I I totally get it uh our house is the bus stop for the neighborhood so kids are going through everybody that walks through spring Rich the way that they get to Hughes Elementary they all just walk right through my driveway to be honest with you so I I I do get it I think that with the expansion of the driveway next to our our garage we'll never be backing out into Snyder so I think that would only help us in terms of we'll never be at risk of not seeing anybody um I would love to try to keep it it would just be I mean this is going to be a pretty large uh project it would be one less thing for me to have to undertake in terms of changing it up um it's kind of the existing structure of our Landscaping of how we have our front yard um I would love to try to keep it if possible but um the the ordinance speaks to one driveway erress so it technically isn't VAR it's a pre-existing condition but we've run into this situation on Hillside and web Hillside and Wentworth over by uh yeah where we had a double driveway and we voted to abandon the one you know like I said I'm in favor of the application I understand it's a pre-existing non-conforming condition that that's my comment but I'm one of the eight before you one just quick note about the driveway too it's something that obviously we're here before the board for the house and just to Smith the zoning uh the driveway or expanding the driveway isn't something that requires relief as much as it's like a you know it's a consideration of course but it's not anything that's impacted by the house it's you know it's an existing thing it meets the other coverage and the total coverage is still conforming so the second apron may be an ex existing non-conforming I don't know if that's something that could be not really you know as a separate thing or added to it I know we can't really add extra variances along the way here but um in my opinion I'm just looking at a at at a safe routs to school this is a signific use is packed with children Crossing that street my father-in-law was the crossing guard there no longer but uh every child work their way through parting Webster coolage and work their way down through spring that's just um one opinion of of many but that would be my condition and I think your comment too about backing out that you're not backing out on to Snider you're pulling you know going straight on to Snider from the driveway yes kind of the same as back or easier obviously driving wise but like from a Safety Stand point to I don't know if you could say but how like carollyn mentioned about backing out onto Webster that's where the kids are congregating that seems riskier than pulling straight out of the SN and turn the left or right turn pulling straight out rather than backing out onto Webster to the stop sign and then turning the same direction so to also creating potentially two left or right hand movements within a short distance you've got your driveway in the corner so it's this or it's this it's it's very close again my opinion and I I don't want to beat it to death like um please continue and then we will move on to questions and comments okay um the only I me I'm happy to talk about the house more like talking about houses that's my thing um the only other thing I have this little photo board exhibit a or exhibit one I have copies for the board um but basically just showing similar houses in the neighborhood that what we're proposing is pretty consistent with the houses uh you mentioned one on Harrison I think that's the one with the driveway um that was before house diagonal behind one over on Harrison um this is the next door neighbor it's I guess it's a new build but a lot of these at a level or new home constructions that are pretty similar in size and you know character for the neighborhood so it's not going to be a big Bo boity like a creating a buffer for you if if you put a vegetation row along s Avenue it provides you with that rear yard privacy that you don't have you're very Exposed on that corner I everyone's standing up on top of the uh sidewalk looking down into the valley so again my my opinion no no valleys no no talks of Valle well you know you know they you're you're at a the sidewalk is higher than it is yes no I we're not this is not a driftway uh conversation and did you say you have copies of those for everybody and for the record did you take those photographs and when did you take them I took them yesterday right was that your house yesterday yeah yesterday and these are the photographs that are on your poster board yeah corre and you said you had the the Harrison houses one of the one of the pictures on there yes that's uh on the top right you have a black and white copy I have another color copy you need it for the record or whatever but um you got both copies I'm not going to hang it out my house but uh the Harrison House is on there I note that down is it's a minimal increase in coverage too that because we're going over the existing house in the front we're building a portico on top of an existing scoop and then we're building a chimney in the family room so there's 106 sare feet I I don't you know that's why we let some go I it's should your application Advance it will not be significant storm weather management Tom will probably look to make sure that your leaders AR directly pointed towards the neighboring property to because an adverse condition on the neighboring parcel but the 106 square feet is that's not going to trigger anything of significance Mr ler is here I'm sure he will be Happ to share his comments on U rain Gardens Etc so if you would like to touch base with some interesting features Mr ler is always available as a resource here in town um I'd like to make a motion to open up the meeting to members of the public at this moment Mr coell I make a motion members of the public I have a second by Mr Dean I second that motion the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment regarding our application at five Webster seeing no one may have a motion to close Mr oh Mr Mr ler our environmental commission Le on you you do you swear to tell the truth all truth nothing truth yes thank you have an address uh Richard ler 49 someone thank you so um just a couple of questions one is uh the exact point that you just brought up San are the downspouts uh uh draining to the lawn or are they draining to the street and secondly with the change in the uh driveway are any trees to be removed oh I had a note that there was um I'm sorry so the the the question is down spouts at at the existing condition today how did the down spouts operate on your parcel and where does the water from the leaders run yes so my property show a lot be so this is Snider Avenue this is Webster the hill kind of runs towards the house towards the back on on both sides from from Snider down and from Webster down you're in the goes back to this corner okay and so behind uh there's my neighbors here and my neighbors here we there's a basically a a path of river rock that runs all the way down to the street below and so all of our water just kind of goes back here that that way and then it collects into a private set of river rock that's common with the the and what's the next street down Harrison Harrison okay and then it just goes into I'm sure goes into a storm water yes okay yes and then no trees were in the expansion of the driveway being nothing thank yes that that's exactly what we're trying to encourage people to avoid draining into a catch Bas and if it's possible to instead of doing that uh uh create a a rain Garden although if it's if this river rock is there is it created so that it's um in effect of Swale which would allow some of that rainwater to seep into the soil it sounds like the majority of this project is the driveway so there's a significant difference from the driveway sloping to the furthest point so it it would take a while there would be a lot of U surface drainage before it even hit the sale from any run off from the driveway correct yes if I'm understanding you correctly the driveway is over here so it's going to rain comes down long backyard all the way to that corner but the ction of of a catastrophic event most of the water would be retained on the property considering your I got a motion to open up the meeting to members of the public Mr I'll make a motion I have a second by Mr Sylvester I second that motion the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment seeing no one may have a motion by Mr Ringwood I move we close the meeting to public and have a second by Mr Co so moved the meeting is now closed to members of the public that a question or comment regarding by Webster comments from the board Mr satures no comments Mr ringland I I think it's a great project thank you Mr Sylvester well done Mr per oh it's good I like it Mr C Mr deia Mr Degan I'm good okay um conditions Miss Wolf Storm Water Management subject to the township engineer any lighting that's exterior that we downward directed or otherwise shielded so it doesn't go onto other properties it'll keep the site nice and clean while you're doing it you won't have debris everywhere it'll be orderly um the fors not imposing the condition that they closed off the driveway correct okay we I doesn't sound okay I think that covers all of them okay uh with that said they have a motion I'll make a motion to accept the project that present motion by Mr coell in a second I second that motion a second by Mr Dean Mr Sullivan as much as I would like to say yes I'm going to say no and the reason why I'm going to say no is the pre-existing driveway condition I would feel more comfortable for a safe routs to school program we had a very successful project on Harrison that's my opinion I'm one of many I'm a no I'm in favor of your application but I have to vote though this evening Co yes presented Mr Jia yes Mr Ringwood yes Mr Sylvester yes Mr Pera yes Dean yesus yes Caris good luck on your build out and welcome to FW beron we hope you're very happy here good luck with kid and we have our next application and final this evening application 24001 0 the the EV residents located at 25 Liberty Avenue block 2004 L cont so the board does have jurisic be here this case thank you very much for joining us and we will miss wolf will swear you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you your name and address Emily n 25 Liberty Avenue bery Heights New Jersey new thank you very much and tell us what brings you before the board of adjustment um we added into our in previous coverage uh we added uh additional another our garage uh I mean the driveway sorry we added a expanded expanded our driveway okay yeah and also the um we installed um Belgium black along the curb on W Liberty Avenue since we're a corner lot uh we an r10 we're 10,000 square feet um all we did the so we'll go with a driveway first we expanded it because um like the previous um thing we needed parking um when we have guests and relatives coming over with cars and everything like that we would the street is very narrow yeah so when you have both sides us above you right yeah so both side both sides of the street are you know parked with other relative you know guests and everything there's there's no way to park you can't do double parking and all those stuff so we expanded the driveway okay uh and then secondly um I spoke to Tom Baka about this and he engineer that was I yes yeah uh the the Belgium black that we built along the uh Liberty Avenue and Wardell since where a Cornel lot and there was a catch base on the corner we have water coming from our neighbor in Wardell W above you yes above us and it's constantly running water so it's like it's eroding the soil and all the stuff I mean no it's not my property it's a town property but it's uh we try to put like rocks before there to kind of you know help the water drain because otherwise during the winter you could see it's not for our for our benefits it's actually doing it for the benefit of our neighbor because you see during the winter there's ice on the road so it's very icy when you go down and it's coming down this way it's it's very icy so we what we did we did uh the Belgium black so we did um redirect water to go to the catch Basin that's what we did but um I guess we got you know Dr so dror sorry Mr SAR told us he would love if you if he was here you called him doctor sorry I work in the dental office doctor and I think I'm in fan so so so we did that in our you know in our good you know thing to to help our neighbors and to make it look nice the the uh the you know um look nice in the corner and with no water running over all over the place so we did the Belgium black and no it looks nice during the winter there's no um you know freezing water so you installed did you have them installed or did you just place them were they it's already installed made in concrete and yes yes okay yes on onward onward Liberty and then but in Li so we did both sides and then tombak said well it's a it's a town property right um and uh we know that but um I said we just did it so you know of course we're in the corner you want the curb appeal yeah so you want you know to improve improvise uh improve the house you know this look the look of the house the property so that's why we did that so I just I want to pause right there because you provided construction within the borrow the township rify on Wardell and liberary yes sir this board cannot discuss or provide guidance regarding improvements outside of the limits of your parcel so the violation that you're discussing right now is an issue with the town because Wardell may have a 50 foot is a 50 foot R of white and Liberty in front of your house is a 50 foot R of way so you need to respect whatever the tolerance is for the the road WID which is approximately 28 or 30 ft so the issue of the Belgium blocks is not for our discussion but that's a discussion between Tom Tom S if they're okay with it they're okay with it and I'm sure it looks really nice but it lends itself to liabilities for emergency personnel and yeah I I I I totally understand uh Mr SAR explained that to me um I also told him that across the the house acrosses also has Belgium blocks yeah they they could have gone for the exercise of a street opening permit and approvals I don't know we don't know yeah there are homes in this area that have asked for that curb appeal feature that you're looking and it has been granted but subject to the review and the approval of the designation by the engineers it sounds like we missed missed a step I I realized what you were trying to do to protect your parcel and the neighboring Parcels however it's a violation of an encroachment onto a right of which isn't for this board so that's a discussion for Tom S power okay so let's talk about a generator patio and an expanded TR yeah the the patio was approved already by Tom bako that's already been done the patio was approved but if the patio is approved then why are we here the driveway okay but the patio does not meet the rear yard set back for the car right I mean I mean our setback before was how was was uh it was 40 right this is let's see is this this is not a scale so Tom B did not flag this property for a rear yard set for the patio I'm sorry Tombo did not say it was a violation for the rear yard no the I I I I I um applied for the uh the patio and he approved it is it why is it just artificial turf right so there's no stone no wood it's just artificial turf yes so you put your patio or your it's just a yeah you're just putting your patio or your chairs on this artificial yes which is probably why didn't trigger anything because it's it's still yeah it's not it it's at the discretion of the zoning code official if we were in other towns they may consider a synthetic grass imp perious cover I I we uh we did everything what tombak said we did a a drain underneath so we did uh did a French train and all the stuff that goes all the way to the catch Basin to you know so we did whatever he asked us so we actually have since we have a fence now so we have all that double French drain by the uh by the fence and by around surrounding the back of our house so we don't get flooding in because we used to get uh we used to get water in our backyard all the time when it rains and it takes days before it subsides so we did French rain actually we got flooded during the during the uh what the rain when we had The Heavy Rain few years ago yeah we got plotted in our basement okay the the zoning permit says the pervious patio no the is uh there he's talking about the uh the additional uh driveway that we added no no no we're talking about the patio is is not to be in school uh no it's the uh find the driveway this one you have this one the but it says that the installation okay all right so the the rear y okay the grass and all right I was reading the pervious patio I didn't know what that word was no not that one so then we're not going to talk about we will no need to discuss the patio when how old is the survey uh which survey the survey that you provided here with your application package that was in 2000 this is the original survey 2018 uh no 14 or 15 something like that yeah okay and that's for the new house you had we had the old house and we tore it down we came for a variant yes we did went for the ex sign yes we did okay and at that time do you remember what the variances were uh the uh the original when the existing before that before there was an old house so I don't know what was the coverage on that one when we built the house the coverage was 27.77% right it was 3121 it decreased and decreased to 27 yeah we're in R 10 so the the percent was 30 from 30 for R1 yeah so now project we are discussing is driveway expanded driveway and it's less than from the side and it's it's a larger driveway with additional impervious coverage and is there a walkway now that goes to the back we uh there was a walkway before but we just expand it a little bit and make it you know look nicer of course you know my my biggest concern on this is not really the coverage because it's a super R theze lot it's the fact that you put a driveway and cut the curb to the street without permission C the Cur when you widened your driveway you widen the access to the street right the driveway going to the street yeah yeah so to me you know that's the the biggest concern I have is that you open the driveway to the street wider without permission um so Mr chairman I don't know what what the ordinance is what you know we allow single opening do they allow double opening um well I know you can't have two driveway aprons and I was a solo artist but last that uh I don't know the board would have jurisdiction over that over the width of a driveway over the width yes but over the fact that they installed it what well the the driveway was one car width now it's two car wids and that same you can't open the curve line to the street without a curve open without a curve opening right so wouldn't that just be a violation of the something's telling me and you I don't have the driveway ordinance I thought it was 20 or 24 feet was a maximum for a driveway width this driveway width looks tremendous I mean it's I don't know it either I know but I know because when we built my mother's house she could only have to drive opening so wide for that purpose you can you see them narrow then they open up they open up which is exactly what her driveway does single car in and then as so many feet in it got wider and wider which is why I'm saying that's that's what whatever that is this needs to at minimum adhere to that standard at the curve L I don't recall but I remember when we did my driveway the same thing there's a limitation how wide the opening can be on the street I mean look it's a it's a 10,000 ft lot and a 16,000 sqt uh you know required so it's significantly under sized so the the amount of coverage is one thing but it's the we just and we we are less than 5 feet on the second thing right so if the driveway opening were the appropriate size and they met the 5 foot setback on that property line side you would have saved square footage there on both the width of the driveway as well as the opening of the driveway I mean I think those are the two biggest things that we're looking at looks like the ordinance only has a minimum driveway width and that is 10 feet I swore years ago something on Janet Lanes rning Bel that there was a 20 or 24 maximum but nonetheless we're here for over on so what is so R what is that is that it says 18 but that doesn't yeah I I this is not a scale so we we've got 18 and I don't know what the exist you know if the existing condition was 12 we're at 30 cross wait a second that whole thing is driveway now driveways from the white car all the way to the trip I oh wait it's got you know like that's a let's say it's a 1 and 1 half car driveway so let's say that's 18 and you've got 18 there's 36 right there let's say between 35 and 40 let's pick 35 as the lower number that's a significant driveway you know why because the old the new one is 18 by 26 so the old one was probably about 18 by 26 as well yeah yeah now now it makes sense in front of the driveway the garage was the original driveway about 18 by 26 and now they moved it over another 18 by 26 yeah the original driveway probably ended at the end of the house yeah yeah yeah you can see it on here like on the plan which kept them under the 30% you see like that those red lines that's the new and that white square next to it is the old so yeah it ended at the oh I'm sorry there is a different table it says the minimum width is 8 feet and the maximum with is 18 ft for single family detached well right which is what the original one was 18 ft so now we're at 36 so we're double the width of the driveway without a street opening permit and encroaching and and the side yard setback is probably three which is why Robert said it's going to have to start at 18 and it can widen out to no more than 5 foot and then but it goes yeah how does the board feel is everyone looking at the picture just for sake of discussion we've got the existing driveway and let's assume that that was 18 then you've got a 4 foot fence gate what if we were to just follow the fence gate all the way down to the street and remove the impervious coverage where the refu area is in that whole side which creates a larger buffer from the neighboring property saves the tree and reduces impervious coverage and provides an 18 18 and4 you know 22 23 foot wide driveway as opposed to the 30 18 at the opening goes in a few feet and then widens because that's the ordinance 18 feet that's a maximum which is two car width right at at the I'm saying to just keep the keep the rectangle and and restore the green to the area where the ref you want to Grant a 22 22 foot wide opening instead of an 18t opening yes I would as opposed to the 36 that exist I would say 18t opening and then it curves after it goes in if so you're you're introducing a k turn well no it's just like this but are you expanding all the way to this curine no no no no no no just like this 18 at the end 22 at the top how you whether you want to do it on an angle or a curve but it's 18 at the bottom 22 at the top 18 but I mean just for aesthetic purposes I would rather come out straight down here's the challenge with that all this curbing that they put in conversations so we could just have one conversation so my my challenge with the opening of the driveway is the curving that they put in all around on Liberty and Mardell may need to come out absolutely right so if all that curbing comes out and that means the driveway should go back because that means they don't have a Road opening permit I personally do not want to Grant more than what a Road opening per what a Road opening permit would be which is 18 ft this way if we say 18 ft and they have to take that curbing out then their curve their driveway would meet standard Road opening because there's no guarantee that the town is going to let let them keep that Belgium Block they put in the right away I don't think they will so if that all comes out the road opening should never have been expanded to begin with want to expand your driveway and have a little over coverage maybe not not not like that so 18 at the bottom and if you want to give him 22 at the top so it comes in it bends out a little bit and then goes up so you could still get at the top 22 foot youd still have room for four or five cars in that driveway so you're saying 18 at the street and then bow it out to 22 at the top which is which is where the Gate of the that's fine that's along the same lines of where I was going I was just looking at it as a straight no and I I just if the road opening could be that big I would be okay with it I me personally don't want to Grant more than Road opening permit should be specifically because of all the other stuff that's happening there with the curbing that may have to come out okay I've got no problem with that it looks like the driveway is gone and need to be reduced okay but this is two or three people of the board that's been chatting okay do you have an objection to well my objection is only when you know the parking when you yeah I mean that's why we widened our parking I me our driveway because of parking problem so I think the board can probably vote on some something reasonable tonight however as a condition of approval before any alteration you need to seek out the appropriate permits through zoning and Engineering for the Belgium Block activity that's taking place on W Del and Liberty okay if they're fine with it you know they're fine with it but we are probably looking to reduce the apron opening to 18 ft and widening it out to 20 two feet at the top which is a couple feet towards which is U from here and then you go wide you go towards the gate that gets you into the backyard what you said yes what you said is correct yeah so from so you're going to the driveway 18 and then you expands okay and um would instead of uh okay so if you're going to be widening it kind of put gravel there instead of a grass or only because asked um his yeah okay interpretation of gravel is gravel has been well no gravel as a decorative not as a driveway remember we did the whole thing with the swes with yeah so gravel and River Rock used as part of drainage was not counted as calculation for coverage if it's part of your drainage so in like one of the previous applications they were talking about using the river rock around their patio as drainage engineering and Zoning do not calculate that as coverage because it's project if you put in a gravel pit uh for for a fire pit or gravel down for a playground they would count that as coverage so it depends on basically just yeah it depends on the usage of it so if you get if you laay down gravel because you're parking a camper on it that's coverage driveway gravel is coverage so you would have to talk to the zoning officer and let them know what the purpose of that gravel is and they would determine whether or not so again it's it's based on use case for gravel okay all right so I'll have to talk to Tom B but yeah okay I would talk to Tom and Tom at the same time just make an appointment with both of them sit down at the same time just try to move things along right yeah so with that said I'd like to make a motion to open up the meeting to members of the public may have a motion by Mr make a second by Mr I second that motion the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment regarding 25 Liberty Mr L's here I'm G to swear you wi again for the third time did you raise your right hand swearing all night do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do Richard R 49 Su thank you the storm morar State storm mortar ordinance is addressing um especially uh driveways for uh non-point s uh source pollution maybe you're aware of that the funny thing is that the state ordinance doesn't worry so much about runoff from Roes of houses but from driveways why because you park your car on the driveway because your car might leak some oil it rains it washes the oil off down into the street down into the river there's a town a few miles away that's taking water out of the river and making it into drinking water that's a problem so you've got a big driveway there um and then uh you've probably seen the memo but uh I'm trying to call out what's happening with increased impervious surface of approximately 6 12 square ft with a water quality storm of a inch and a half that's what I was trying to remember before inch and a quarter water quality storm inch and a half water quality storm that's a standard that's uh uh given us by the D runoff will be more than 600 gallons just from that one storm so that uh you know that annual rainfall for Union County is 47 inches or 3.9 feet in other words multiply 620 square feet by 3.9 feet you get 2436 ft annually you multiply that 2436 feet by 7.48 that's the conversion to gallons you're getting 18,000 gallons more than 18,000 gallons of runoff annually um this is why we're trying to uh uh encourage people to keep storm water on their property this property is apparently has a groundwater recharge between 6 and 13 inches a year that's uh coming off of uh an evaluation that's done uh on a larger level so uh the point is green infrastructure so the commission recommends retaining storm water on the property with green infrastructure I think that's the short version of my memo thank you very much thank you MKS that said may I get a motion to close the meeting record uh and that was the extension of the driveway there's a tree on the left side of the driveway we saw the tree right that so the moving that driveway over onto the roots of the tree may affect the life of the tree on that side of the driveway that may not be immediately apparent it might take a year or two to and that tree could die in the next two or three years that's a problem thank you seeing no one may I get a motion to close the meeting to members of the public Mr Dean make a motion to close second by Mr second the meeting is now closed to members of the public that have a question comment um with that said amand the conditions conditions would be that the driveway has to be reduced in size to a curve cut of 18 and it can taper up to 22 ft at the top um you have to get the street opening permit and any approvals for the Belgium blocks from Tom sa Faro Tombo that was it yeah and then it also in the record we have resolutions from 2016 and 2015 2016 cor right miss neas you understand that there should this application Advance there will be a reduction by the size of the of the drive life and you will need to secure the appropriate permits from the gentleman here in town zoning and we the land use and Engineering regarded Street opening so we don't know what the resulting coverage numbers will be then correct well any of the activity in the right way wouldn't apply the percent would not apply but there will be a reduction if it's 31 and change on this application it's it's probably going to drop to the high 20s 33% 339 it may drop down below 30% but in the r10 zone let's just be mindful that 30% is the number and we're typically uh subject to the 25% okay I was just trying to figure out how to write the variance Rel because we're not going to have a specific number then how much we're granting I will be under the 30% and they won't need the variance we could say that it can have so if we the driveways is roughly 468 Square ft the new portion that they put in is approximately 468 square feet we reduce that in half to 234 s ft so an opening at the bottom of 18 a Max addition of 234 Square ft be about 2% difference that brings the application down to 3.93 which is still over but on an under siiz lock and then the other coverage variant probably be eliminated 1179 yes and the and the and Tom considered that rear yard feature perv assuming we we just okay so 3193 and so we have a motion by and I'll make a motion to accept the proposal of an 18t curb opening and a Max of 22 feet at the top with about a 3193 coverage thank you Mr K I have a second I second that motion is second by Mr D and Regina please no yes yes Mr Ringwood no Mr Sylvester yes Mr yes Mr Dean yes motion carries 72 okay congratulations and touch base with Tom and Tom and then we will help you through the process thank you very much for joining good night everyone sorry uh may get a motion to open up the meeting to members of the public for general questions and comments I have a second by Mr Ringwood all in favor meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment seeing no one may I get a motion to close Mr Sylvester I make a motion to close may have a second by Mr Mo I get a motion to adjourn Mr Ringwood don't move I have a second by Mr Doris all in favor meeting is down closed we will see everyone in November we're early November right because thanks can you please confirm the 21 21st Thanksgiving is very late and is December the day after Christmas 26 no 12 a turn with it that's I was wondering about no I like it I you know go