yeah think I was put up there pretty sure it was in paper I'll double check I know I had two of them [Music] one all subcriptions and then I tried to but I don't know why I [Music] the other Oney right again you know I saw it and I was like okay all right say anything about and then somebody told you there was an article about you you know I'm like okay I want to talk to you about you know what too on that I got bad news for you unless you already [Music] heard I'll tell you the bad news beond joke good news based on the number of people coming you can actually sit up in the next seat I move to over oh okay yeah so that we don't have an empty seat up here and then that's fine over there did you s message about Chris yours think it was yours yeah he yeah he was new right wasn't well relatively speaking compared to the I think last October something [Music] [Music] I'm doing it now and another you do or you don't see they were both blinking at different times they're both solid [Music] [Music] now [Music] everybody know um if if you if you're up and ready you might want to put some down yes so Jake I couldn't believe when I was reading in the paper about the Far Hills craziness amazing that was pretty crazy the next and said last it was just amazing what's amazing is that a person oh okay well you know what maybe we can talk to the professionals tonight they're the ones that are going to be facilitating why are we had six coming one two three four five six now we really have seven is Jeff is supposed to be coming oh Jeff yeah where do Jeff usually sit over here yeah I'm good at the kid table I there be really okay yeah yeah you know it's it's like if I was there I feel like I was on the floor I would feel like I needed a booster SE I don't have to worry secretary very very nice they most to us [Music] [Music] it looks like the month of March would be good because they got um avilable yes yeah like March and April and then may mix up with other school events so there like a school play or something that's store um and then and she doesn't know if her people would be available so we would have to like find dates first and then the other thing which I did not get a chance I need to talk our sure because that in it but she the hold 100 a thousand people this system is not going to be and they their system because their the board meetings are in schol board meetings are in a smaller room is advanc either we have to move but the school has meetings in uh they they just recently had one I mean recently probably three four months ago for the uh field I don't know but I mean they have something set you talk and do whatever you want to do whereas these were in proximity to where you stood and Stage I think it would be well people have to come down they can't talk right right they have to you know just like they come for the X here do the same thing so what I would have to do is have RIT gu maybe go over there see how he could set it up um you know and obvious the key is there they're will to work with us but but you know ass right okay you know and then just working out those details sure and I said to her it definitely wouldn't be on the because left off was that were meeting have to be announced February [Music] meeting no yeah so um right there's yeah the procedur things yeah way that's good because it gets more time and further down the road for planning thank you was there how are you was there Amon 2:00 in the morning I I guess 40 years the [Music] plan having nice she [Music] justan one [Music] [Music] [Music] arm just like a great yeah he'll de compos boss I mean I've always something play the guitar so cool hey we need something to come up and playar so cool just yeah do I go go this [Music] way it's amazing makes one of music is one of the things that makes people [Music] and then one of I remember appears really yeah she is on um be on live so Denise are you ready yes yes I was going with your list your list only has seven and that's okay just let me know when you [Music] okay looks like we're good all right and Accord for the open public meetings act please note the following all burn B signing board meetings will be held in person in the meeting Hall here on the second floor of the Bernville Municipal Building at 166 Mook Road meetings will be also be live streamed on YouTube but with no opportunity for publish comment members of the public wishing to offer comments or ask questions will be required to attend meetings in person the YouTube live stream access for all meetings is YouTube at Bernardsville burough stram this link will also be available on the agenda for each meeting which is posted on the burrow website which is Bernard b.org and on the burough Hall public meeting public buing board at these 48 hours prior meetings noce these changes has also been emailed to the Bernville news and the curer News by posting a copy on the B website and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk B January 6 is the intention of the board not to continue any matter past 11:00 p.m. at any regular or special meeting of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend to a later specified cut off time and same shall be announced that the open meeting in addition the board do not intend to begin a new hearing after 10 p.m. nor begin testimony of a new witness after 10:30 p.m. any hearing conducted by the board is a quasy Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board may trly consider in reaching a decision the quum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all BR call please yes Mr chair excuse me Miss Gardner yes M Geller is absent Mr Graham yes here Mr harwi here Mr McQueen is absent Mr Simo here Mr Walden here and Mr Zarina you have a car Mr chairman thank you welcome uh meeting minutes any comments on on October 12th the 16th car Denise the next meeting yeah I sent them out late so yeah so just the October 12th meeting minutes I have good on page three and one is a t and it's um the bulleted items the last one correction needed in the code to remove pached exory dwelling I'm assuming it should be unit okay you see that yeah and then the next paragraph it's just a a comment about I have a cage or Cottages or apartment it's either a cottage or a apartment not full you see that I don't have it in front of me right now so okay it's just take the A out oh gotcha there's an extra a in there yeah just take the A out and then the rest is okay got it um by giving permission for these rental units comma it gives us the right to inspect them and Ure that they are safe okay okay although I was not here for this meeting um the paragraph starting with Mr zel advise it's not clear to me what actually what that explains maybe it could be a a little more Mr Z advis that because the board already found the prior work with prior work me was not inconsistent you can find the new one not inconsistent but with the recommendations that correct regulations be relocated I just think that should be more clear about what we were talking about okay I'll have a conversation with Mr Z to clarify that um and that's it okay thank you any other comments move minutes with adjustments that just suggested second pass yes yes okay the motion carries um just extensions of course for the absent members right it was just one or oh yes thank okay um the communications I didn't read this one but do anything on this do letter anoculus an Oculus that would be the legal you want weigh need to do some improvements to tting head wall and scour hole I guess craft was roing it C cross was under 202 your Peasant Drive okay it does look like it's compared to the bridge it's just to be probably it's eroding after the cold oh okay all right but they just need to just give the notice that that they're app apply for yeah that's I I didn't mean to mean what was being done was innocuous but it's not related to anything the board no no all right um is there anyone here that wants to discuss anything that's not on the agenda so [Music] visitors 51 CR I'm sorry Aaron Duff du okay and the address was 51 Crest one word thank you gotcha thank you um I just wanted to quickly respectfully ask um for a status update on the board's consideration of the parks and wreck master plan report um the last I remember was in April last year there was a working group meeting some suggestions were made some areas of additional inquiry and then it was on the agenda for a while as you know a pending matter that was going to be a public hearing TBD and it's since fallen off so I just kind of wanted to figure out where that stood and if and when in F to be back before the final board John well chairman uh there was some there were there were meetings held by the board to discuss the plan and there were some modifications the document that the consultant made on behalf of the b as requested by the board and a matter of re reviewing that document put it back on agenda just never made it back out of a while got the Bon well I guess The Bard might be in our court I can I can review where we are with it and advise the board and and I can advise uh Denise what the status is and then we could schedule for let's say end of the work section we can get adopted okay I don't think it's in so it's at a point where I think we find a lot of that's I thought it was pretty yeah the consultant made changes in response to comments that I and the board had they weren't subsided but they were amendments so we need to Recons it because it is being treated as an element of the master plan we need to have a public hearing and notice any why do we why don't we Circle back put it on the on an agenda to kind of review it one last time and schedule a public hearing and adverti for it and doed right and if I made dtail off the suggest good suggestion by um I I'm just noticing we our our pending kind of turned into pending applications which is maybe a little too narrow uh out be accurate item I uh it should be pending applications and other matters and that way you know it really should get back on uh there because we only have applications that are forthcoming even those that are not being complete yet we should have all our other matters that are pending in there work together with okay yeah I aware of the that yeah and and thank you Mr dck do we need to do anything John for um and yeah for uh climate change we uh my firm submitted a proposal go back at the the mayor and Council see you know what was submitted to them see how they wanted to proceed okay so that's kind of being handled over there I'm sure consultation I know we have to add an element something time goes by and and the issues that will be covered by that uh plan become irrelevant to put the town gos and then you can't go back there and do it so the th should move ahead even if it wasn't required by another amendment of the plan so the Press you're not precluded from doing it right respite fite gu so if you press Counsel on me I'll follow Ury on that that would be great I'll follow up on that what do they call that Mor prepayment penalty do it the mandatory triggers changed to your masterly sement but just like the re exam you have to do it every 10 years you can do one continually so I think it's prudent and I will go back on that yeah was they were okay great couple resolutions okay all resolutions uh 114 Claremont resolution I had one comment on that uh one one of the variances that we were noted in the is that they committed could remove more than 50% of the trees and that we did approve that that variance but I thought it conditioned on their planting replacement trees because the theory was that the trees that were there were kind of weedy and crummy and uh that they would plant additional trees that would replace uh the the other now maybe that's covered in the Landscaping plan but if it's not I think it should be explicit they supposed to other substantial trees to replace the ones they're cutting down it didn't excuse them from having to replace trees it allowed them to um more than 50% canopy but if they remove a tree they have to replace it or make the necessary one way or another there's still a requirement to PL a certain number of trees if they can't me it then they have to contribution they never what we can do is condition eight that speaks to it the applicant shall plant the requisite number of replacement [Music] trees and uh make really leave the rest as is and make any necessary contributions to the tree replacement fund based upon how much they replant that affects how much they have to pay to the tree fund uh so we don't really need to change that language no you don't need to but that I think would that make it clear enough yeah it should be clear that they can't replace a big hardw with arum well that that's pursuant to the that's also pursuant to the pre protection ordinance okay in other words it's specific as to what's required to replace certain trees with what uh uh uh the diameter you know Cal yeah three and the like yeah so we know enough to be dangerous but yes so see that that's Incorporated in in The Language by virtual incorporating uh uh the ordinance verition but thank you for pointing that out so with with that change if there's no others that would be the motion to adopt any I'm Mo the adoption of the resolution and both the board members I don't have a list of make sure sorry I'm looking at the at the resolution itself you got it thank you okay so Mr Graham yes Mr Horwitz yes and Mr walon yes I'm sorry Mr simar yes sorry wrong okay uh the second resolution mind Road urb renewal Associates this is the 63 reard application ex one of three 100% scatter SS uh the first one to be approved with respect to amended and Final hopefully we memorialized it accurately it certainly made its Rounds Around All board professionals and applicant professionals but we're going to hear now few few things we missed one of the things is that there was the provision that appears in several places and conditions that there' be three parking spaces that park over M and it's a little confusing whether how many times they have to do that but I thought the point of those three parking spaces that they were supposed to be sufficiently near the garbage dumpster as to permit the [Music] um K turn in there and that's mentioned once in the um in conditions but the uh that other condition of three spots I think repeated three additional points and I think a little confusion I think if you're looking for them it's some five Roman 3 five Roman [Music] 2 the um this one it's a lot of sub categories in Romans Al together I think it's like page 30 P yeah page 30 if you can point me to where we actually have the detail and then I'll make sure it gets repeated in the places it needs to be look at on page 35 five three Li there um and it's in the paragraph above it okay page 30 number five Roman small Roman TW two and three two and three the applicant should designate three parking stalls with the northernmost row of proposed parking spaces as guest and overnight parking saws right and three covers the point of that supposed to provide for the Turning radi radius but they're never tied together so you know Tren to put those three spots any place on the so we can tie those two together and then repeated where appropriate in subsequent condition or delete the repetitions we happen to have Council for the African here so we don't normally do this but since we had the opportunity Council for the app be able to follow that do you have any objection or uh to that modification no objection thank you um and uh the concept I think has been sufficiently explained so certainly the board can adopted tonight I'm not saying that's the only one there might be more with that with that change without having to see it again in my opinion is there an AC there was a duplication of propos proposing it somewhere if you look for the word proposed it's like hey the applicant proposed and then it says proposed again okay it's somewhere in the resolution we'll find it we'll C you'll see at the beginning of the sentence it'll start say and then it'll immediately locate it we will find it that's also a change that to be made did you want to because I know you did the research you work with applicant so did you want to put anything in it about the total uh the aggregate of the three projects because on the face of it you can't have six singles in you're talking about the allation of the the offsetting doubles and triples in other words the only reason you can have six singles in this development is because they're doing the other two as well I know we we referenced the global scattered sites yes um but I guess we did not reference the fact that in totality uck is suppos to compli with that as to among other things bedroom distribution exactly uh I take it there's no objection from applicants coun that yeah did all the work you might as well someone doesn't say hey wait a yeah if they look at it in isolation uh and they're focused on it like one one of the few of us might be yes the um affordable housing allocation uck Global all three sites is my little not for myself again a concept that I I think with the particularly with the simulation of the applican SC here on beh of the applicant uh we can adopt tonight trusting me to make accurately make that change absolutely is there any other comment and then you have who qualifi to vote oh I know you do because it's right here I only had one other I only had one other thing and it was it seemed to me it's in OB bance it's kind of we're going to we can do the project we're giving him permission but there's the whole issue of the drainage going to the west or going out to grow and it was sort of well we're going to work on that you know because we need to get the rights to access the drainage that's where we've left it right generally and maybe Bob can jump in but generally as the board knows uh uh generally there are things left over for some review and approval of office times engineering uh uh sometimes planner and very occasionally attorney uh the um so you know that may fall under that scenario but if you want to refer to the specifics or Bob wants to address it for simply for resolution adoption purposes well as the plan is now they need demonstrate that there's capacity in that system Eng gross then there's the A's going to have to look at up options so if they wanted to so they've proven they can do it that's the whole D you can do the you can do the plan and you can comply and so forth but there are optimizations there often are field optimizations and so forth so so I guess that's open if it's there was an ability to get access to that F goes through theity property so we're leaving it that way intentionally that's the point it's okay I just they that that was my understanding yeah okay I just wanted up couldn't burn that now I was looking at it which and there was all this steep SL variances and so forth if they pitched the land back from drain to the back to the to the West would they have needed those steep slopes I believe so because I think they were up near the kind of that elbow of Avenue slopes down to the neighbor's property so I don't know that that would eliminate but I know they had to they had to elevate it to this to to get it to flow I'm not going to follow up I just wanted to be sure it was still open they still have the flexibility to do that if they could figure out how to do it I guess we it sounds engineering preferable to run it into that large pipe that's that's there if they can do it if if they can and good teachable moment for our newer board members because there's uh never is everything 100% done and definitive uh and that's not the board's job uh uh but the board's job is is to make sure it's feasible uh and approvable or not you know the applicant has the ver appr that's yes you know essentially and there always and a lot of subject to review and approv them yeah and when they build stuff they'll bring bomb in and say what you know we can't just do this case in this way how can you do it you know and that's one of the things they'll often see conditions where it's if this then that but if that then this type of thing and that that's appropriate and a good way of of for the board to handle things can do everything uh you know things do change okay but we have a thorough board we're blessed to have it any other comments from our professionals or board on this I can you do twice already I don't give a third okay so um well the same threee so okay I'll make the motion I'll second it okay Mr Graham uh yes Mr Horwitz yes and Mr simar yes again [Music] Musketeers we paying the bills at the front end now okay no just pay the bills right then new business they're all Mr sa I think we should no bills were the only ones that came in in the interim okay for the board's edification I have nothing to do that's that's right yeah that's not your office and and and and John had nothing to do with that skipping up from the end of the agenda to the to closer to the beginning of to know happy the rest of the meeo they get paid that's a motion second and a voice vot any comments no just motion make a motion to pay the bill a second just to P John's bills total toal yeah I didn't $ 5,212 thank I'll make that Mo with that amount 5,21 25 don't forget the 25 cents get to 25 cents well no wait a minute Mr zarino made the motion so then I already motioned I guess I didn't say the dollar that's okay okay Mr Z we understand the motion second we got a second and a voice I any opposed any okay some hearing all right so now we're to to the main event um the public hearings uh the first hearing is MBR Road urban renewal Association uh this is MBR Road it's BL 838 it's an affordable housing Zone pick up this was carried from January 11th and we have an extension of time to act so we continue to have jurisdiction and is everybody eligible I I just want to record show that I L watched the entire video of that meeting so right and you will sign the certification if you haven't already as soon as Denise provides it to you but the uh ml only requires that you make that representation you can sign the certification uh at any time my recommendation is sooner rather than later so we do have uh six qualified board members more than aqu quarum so we not only have jurisdiction we can effectually hear in the side case tonight thank you very much Mr Warner good evening Mr chairman and members of the board Nicole manc m a g DC a k of the law firm da Pitney here this evening on behalf of the applicant as was introduced we are here for continued hearing on the amended preliminary and final site plan application related to the property on Minebrook Road this is one of the three affordable housing sites we were tasked at the end of the last meeting on the 11th with a list of a couple items to address for this meeting we were able to prepare a concept plan by or concept layout plan that incorporates a trail easement we also were able to provide that to Mr pigeon the Burrow's attorney who related to the director of DPW John McDow we have been in communication with him as well and he has provided us some feedback on the proposed location which we find to be acceptable and feasible so we'll be able to present that tonight Mr brightley also reviewed that plan and had some comments as to some of the features and locations of things and were also able to incorporate his comments so we'll address that this evening as well so we are hopeful that that brings the trail easement and access issue um at least very close to a resolution for the purposes of the planning board to a resolution and we'll continue to work with the buau on that item we also um were able to as part of that shift the building because we had to gain 10 ft on the boundary of the property in order to provide for that e so you'll see that in the layout plan as well this evening and the impact that that has on the wall we also have some amendments to the floor plans by the our architect so he will be able to describe what has changed the biggest change is that we have relocated the community room to the corner of the building that is is most impacted by the retaining wall so that we can eliminate living space in that area and just have the community space so we don't have somebody who's living full-time in a unit near the highest point of the wall um so that will be explained this evening as well and then we um also have information from the fire department our engineer was able to reach out to the fire chief and they had a very productive conversation so we have some comments though we didn't get them in writing from him in the form of a letter to the board we can represent to the board what those comments were and the fact that we can comply with them so with that I'd like to introduce Kevin shell who is our engineer you remain on your own and I think your license remains a good standing yes it does and I take it the board will continue to accept as an expert in the field of civil engineering Mr chair wonderful good evening um if I have the ability to share my screen again oh I might need to hold on I I you and then got distracted I had the last one is exhibit 84 from last time is that notes can go to 85 for the next we get there uh wonderful all right so we can mark this exhibit A5 pwks it is a colored site rendering of the project it is dated today January 25th 2024 and again we B off the feedback from the last hearing um comments about the proposed trail head a laser b um our recommendation or we put together a concept plan that showed access to the trail head coming across the back of the the property a sidewalk behind our building extended to the trail head um hard to see on the plan with the trees here uh but as one of the members of the public had brought up at the end of the hearing that it appeared that the DPW had already specifically relocated some of that trail uh starting in that back corner and running up the hill um Mr McDow from the DPW had confirmed that as well for us when we provided the concept plan um so the idea was we took all the building the parking shifted it back over to the to the right hand side of the plan 5 feet to provide a 10- foot easement along the western property line um and then we connected a a path for the residents of this community uh to the current location of the trail head that's been recut um so one of the again the the concept plan was provided to the to the board's professionals Mr britley had a recommendation uh that instead of running the the walkway behind the trash enclosure and connecting it in that we put an opening through the wall run the path on the on the upper side of the wall uh and connected to the trail head while sliding our trashing closure back um which we were able to accommodate and what it did was it allowed us the opportunity to get had an extra surface parking space uh out in the front uh at the last hearing if you remember we had testified that the plan submitted had 50 parking spaces we lost three underneath the building uh to account for a larger water room to account for the backf preventer uh to make sure there's no hot box outside the building uh bringing the parking total down to 47 spaces which is still compliant uh but again we were able to add an additional parking space um as a result of this plan change uh to bring the total parking to 48 um so again I think that that is a net positive for the project it gives residents the community um path access to this Trail uh to lead up the slope um and at the end of the day I think it was a you an overall net positive uh we also had um the recommendation was to reach out to the fire chief about comments uh we hadn't received the letter but I had reached out to the fire chief um and spoke to him uh yesterday and today about the application um he did not provide a formal letter but there were some comments and recommendations that he related to us that he would like to see uh one of them was uh 1 hour fire rating within the stairwells and community space which we're happy to comply with it was a 13 uh a 13 fire uh sprink CFT system inside again the stairwells and the hallway corridors which we'd agree to comply with uh recommendation that we push all EV parking spaces with the exception of the handicap accessible EV space out from underneath the building uh which we agre which we would agree to comply with as well uh and the last one was that there's no electric vehicles or electric bike I guess uh charging in the units or within the lobbies which is again we would agree to comply with um so I think it was a it was a positive conversation you talk through the plan um and some of the the reasonings behind those recommendations what they're seeing uh from a fire safety standpoint um and we're happy to comply with those recommendations and we would just continue working with his um the chief regarding exact location of the ada8 parking space the EV space underne building and we'll get those final details uh with him as the plant get uh finalized and Mr Shelly as a result of sliding the building in order to accommodate that 10-ft easement can you just Describe the impact to the wall oh yeah sorry uh so again the building the parking and this ports from the retaining wall shifted 5 ft uh back to the the right right hand side of the plan the back corner here where the retaining wall is the highest uh I testified at the here and two weeks ago that the maximum kind of the wall was about 21 1/2 ft now down from 35 shifting it back over 5 ft only increased the height of the wall by about a foot and A2 uh so again it's a maximum height three feet again that's only in that corner as you start passing the the corner getting towards the the front of the building or to the the rest of the back that wall is dropping to 15 feet and continuing to get below that uh for majority of uh the back of the building here uh it's really just this kind of back area that's uh the most significant in terms of the height of the wall so again minor foot and a half change to the height of the wall as a result of Shifting the building back build 5T and Mr Shelly overall the wall is still significantly lower than what was previously approved correct yes correct what did you say was in the west the northwest corner there was something like a utility no no no no where the tree is you see where the tree there you said there was what's there uh we would expect that's probably where the Transformer goes that's what you said okay than that's where we would propose it that's what I remember okay thanks yeah we had the site sign now that was another change we at the end of the hearing it was recommended to US based off of the uh speeds on the road to maybe talk about making that sign a little larger um it was previously 7 ft wide we're proposing to extend the to 10t um which makes the actual sign area about 9t in width uh not making it any taller making the letters a little bit larer so they're easier to be seen from uh passing vehicles uh so that was one of the other changes that we made I'm so what was the new dimension um 10t total and and I guess SL and what are the dimensions of the letters that you have uh I increased the letters uh the the main Community name let me zoom in are five in in height the address at four and the RPM community at the bottom at three it's still a 2 and 1/2 foot sign area but we would try to maximize no it's part of it's on the sheet it's on the sheet it's all one thank you sure um let me Circle back to it just the base is 10t the overall height of the sign remains 4 and 1/2 ft tall the sign area itself will be 2 and 1/2 ft in height by 9 ft the bottom is a stone base to match the building 2 foot by 10 foot but we're going to increase the size of letters to try to maximize visibility the letters I can just chime in a in letter is visible for 150 ft the manual uniform traffic control devices which dictates letter sizes for Traffic Control signs it's 30 30 ft per inch so if the letter is in you can see it at 150 ft which at 40 m hour it's about 60 ft per second so take you can see it for about 3 seconds four seconds if we have the ability to make it larger again we want to make sure it's appropriate um to maximize it but still make sure that it's not just all the letters all in there at once on the plan but you know I think 5 in is probably the the minimum we go again if there's I don't believe there's any ordinance about the size of the letters I think the signs in general are just not permitted as a whole but included right um as we as we prepare a mockup and things like that of the Rainer of the sign if those letters can subject to review and approval and reasonable discretion of our engineer yeah they' be fine with us the sign that there's a lighting from the ground yes but it's not like an LED backl type of sign so those are the changes to the site plan that we had made as a result of the heing go back to the corner zoom in so someone wanted to do the trail on this you walk up and Verge between the paring lot and the neighbor that what what would happen is there's this 10t space is an easement that we would be granting to the burrow to provide access to the trail the walkway that we are providing through the wall and around the back of the wall to physically connect to the trail would be for our residents we're not promoting outside uh visitors from walking through the the site and the improvements that go after access the trail that's the purpose of the whole 10ft wide easement on that side where if the burrow were to phys you know we left the trees the Landscaping that was there previously still on there that's something that we're happy to talk with the board's professionals about whether we leave the area clean lawn open or whether there's a desire for landscaping in there that would not interfere with the potential Trail physical Trail being extended out to the roadway um but the improvements that are shown on the plan would be for this the residents of this community so so people Wan non-residents wanting to access a trail don't have to go through b under correct the idea would be that there is a a additional trail out to the right of way that would be the Burrows and you're going to regrade it anyway right regrade what the area 10 foot area isn't that part of your grading plan the yeah the area in between the parking and the property be regraded and either landscaped or lawn seated whatever the desirable finish for that area would be right I think that maybe John's firm take a look at that to make sure that the landscape being lay on proper yeah isn't there a little a teeny like retaining law on the border between your property and the West property of the West is it on your property or that over that's on there I I can look the survey can't tell you the they're curving that's right on the property line it's curving yeah whatever just as long as you figure out what you're doing with it that's all well yeah I mean the idea would be there would be 10 feet between their curb in our curb and yep there is just some existing stuff there that's I think there a bar [Music] there a b like a little wallet there and it's like I think they built that BM to keep the drainage from running into the bur clear that area to use a staging that seems like probably something that they would do to make sure that they're not sending their run off onto that neighbor all right I think the BM is actually right up against the uh gravel area it's not it's not close to the property line the um there just something there L there like 15 or 20 ft away from the parking lot prsh that's all okay great I think that was it right those those were the items uh that he's covering then there's the discussion of the community rooms right yes um and [Music] want were you thinking of putting any more maybe a different any more trees on the front of the yeah we talked about the last time we work Mr Zabo about the appropriate landscape at the front yard whether that's right we made some landcap conf they to work with my [Music] no invive just one comment onr eement I know it's not shown this plan but it's probably about a 45 Dee angle once you get past the retaining wall um speak John MD he wasn't exactly I mared up a where it is but feels like it should GPS yes absolutely that's something that we would go out there locate the physical Trail they cut into the embankment and we would Cent her any easement about Department was okay with the fan the whole thing where you got they were fine with the delay of the the underground parain um the exhaust on front of the building auxiliary fan I guess yes never been on before all right yeah if there's no more board questions Mr chairman I don't know if there's any other professional questions not for me okay then we should just do public if any questions real quick not quick I don't know questions public questions again um I think you said 10 ft I just wanted to confirm the width of the is that correct yeah the wi ement would be a 10 foot wide until you get and then you're going to do meet and downs around what correct the idea is that the 10 foot eement at least along the property line we we would propose it to follow the same if the trail is wider than that we would provide an appropriately with easement up the trail till it hits the back thank you any other questions from the public for this witness thank you thank you next wit our next witness is our architect good evening every your your name and address again walking mes Bo Cas walking is J Q 632 PPT avue C you were sworn last time you understand you under Ro and I think license remains a good standing it is so I'll assume L the board accept as an expert in the field of AR please proceive thank you so we'll mark this as a six well it's actually the [Music] no this is [Music] the that's mine I work a lot again [Music] go I don't know said this will be a yeah this would be A6 and what is it so this is a retaining wall cross-section um we show the uh various sections around the highest can you just give us a date oh sure it's 126 12523 24 23 uh 125 sorry it's labeled wrong but it should be 24 we'll take the intent change 12544 I'm sorry please continue um okay so here there's a key map of where the uh section cuts are being made so uh we took section section B is section B and D is essentially at the highest point of the retaining wall and cutting through where the uh community room is now and then a is a further uh little uh South and C is um moving East where the retain theing wall start West starts uh to step down so in this section section A the retaining wall is 16t 4 and a qu uh the building is 10 ft away you can see that the second floor um opens up already uh you would already not be looking at the uh retaining wall on the first floor 10 ft away would be the retaining wall and and is 10 ft away I'm sorry my name is Chairman is 10 ft away the commun vi from the community room no well that's that's that's from a unit at section A and as we move through on the first FL okay section B is section B is where the community room and d section d That's Right D and D but not a and C there we go right here we have uh retaining walls about 12 feet away and this is essentially the highest portion of the retaining wall uh 20t 4 and2 in um but at that point you could even see even though the second floor is still looking at the retaining wall uh you would have uh a clear view uh to uh the sky section D again cuts through the community room 10 ft away um 216 and section c is it at the uh inde D 216 216 is the height of the retaining one right and a question for Section D um being that community room is now on that corner you're showing the entrance to that room to the community room from the exterior on uh this facade on the back faade uh and it's a covered entrance how wide is how far off the building is that roof 4 feet it's four feet M so just not drawn correctly on the plan I'm looking at the plans that uh aren't that haven't been shown yet but uh it looks like it's about 7 ft on the plans um so you're saying it's there's going to be a roof that overhangs four feet so it'll be six feet away from that W uh well yes if it's if it's four feet but we we'll go through the plan and we can look at that together yeah on the edge of the canopy to the wall is 16 uh and then section c is 17 foot 6 feet away and the retaining wall as you can see starts to now step down and it's 10' 6 in this location so this is the new plan A7 so A7 A7 this is sheet A110 and it's dated 12324 updated layout I'll zoom into this area here yeah I see what you mean um yeah I think we copied it over as as it was on this side um it doesn't need to be as deep I mean even if it's 6 feet it's still 4 ft away from from the wall um I think even 4T although no it needs to be it needs to be at least 7 ft I think or six six feet uh the the sidewalk for and so you can see here the community room we've relocated it um it's essentially the same size 1150 3are ft we ended up making a uh two bedroom here uh this Lobby and management office got a little wider um due to that relocation of the the two-bedroom and then we took advantage of this whole relocation and ended up putting our three-bedroom in this location here and um I think one of the board members asked last week if we could um essentially bring out the setback that we had here which was probably about 10 ft uh last time and we took advantage of that moved that wall forward and created another bedroom um with the put the three-bedroom in this location so I think it it worked out well did you do that also on the it looks like you did but the other bump out wasn't as pronounced but right we the this was this was already done though that one was already there yeah uh we and the uh uh manage not supervisor or whatever the sup apartment is in same same place that was went the lower yeah that was going to be the two-bedroom um I'm not sure did we call that out no we didn't call that out yet the location of it but that would proba most likely be on the ground floor and one point of clarification from preliminary site plan uh condition 18 of the resolution at the time had required that the super unit be on the first floor near the elevator and the community room but now that the community room has been relocated it's impossible to put the unit near both the elevator and the community room so we would ask that that condition be revised based on those amended PL do you want it near the elevator on the first floor but not near the community room to stay with what I think was the intent of the board at the time of preliminary to have the superity entrance the main entrance to the building or do you want to give the super the crappy apartment that's right lower right hand side with next to the community you should just figure out with the board's permission we can make the appropriate Amendment Commission yeah um if I me chairman was there an issue with respect Council to council to um some language with respect to the superintendent uh uh uh unit in the ordinance uh uh resal development being restricted only reportable units I don't know if there in my mind there's sort of an interpretation there whether it's a strict construction or or or otherwise interpretation of some language that was in our uh uh is in our ordinance uh the U so maybe you can address that issue while we're on the super unit sure yes so related to the super unit the um potential interpretation is whether or not that unit is permitted as an access essentially an accessory type use to the overall residential Community it was always contemplated it was also part of the application for preliminary so to the extent that a strict reading of that language would require relief from that particular section of the ordinance we are seeking that relief so that we can locate the supers unit in this building on the first floor and just for the benefit of of the board what's that oh the board's uh all the board members uh uh and public there's a provision in the ORD in the ordinance residential development shall be restricted to only affordable housing units and shall be subject to all terms and conditions pursuant to Article 13 of this chapter entitled affordable housing this is an affordable housing 100% development like the other two uh and a super unit at least in my experience and one interpretation is that's assumed to be accessory and and part of you know the affordable uh H housing you know it will still be 100% affordable uh and and complying with uck requirements and the life but that said a very strict interpretation could be well technically the super super unit might not be an affordable housing unit per se so I think what the applicant is doing I would concur with it from a legal perspective of being uh out of abundance of caution is saying uh uh to the extent someone might determine us to need uh uh relief from the strict interpretation of that provision which be kind enough to give it to this uh since that was what was intended all along I guess would be a paraphrase uh and I would you know call that you know a deviation um you know may be both variant certainly covered within the catall language in the notice that was provided so the board certainly has a jurisdiction to grant that relief against us all to the extent necessary and if you remove that one unit it doesn't mess up the IH I mean could we'd be taking one away so it was always contl at including at the time of the settlement agreement that the buau entered into that there would be a super unit so um correct if you take the Super unit away we're still compliant with not only uck but also with what the bu is required to provide I just wanted to be sure we're cover the only thing you get is you lost the super or we have to pay him so little so okay so I the board understands that and that the appropriate time if indeed the the the approval is granted it would include the relief of that F back thank you uh one more change that we had on the plans um the last time we were showing all the PTAC units uh the air conditioning units underneath the windows so we removed them from the plans uh since we're no longer doing them and then um one item that the chairman asked if we could try and do was reduce the height of the roof um we essentially ended up moving these walls in at the roof and it we were able to lower the roof height by uh 2 feet when you removed those air conditioning units out know engineering wise did you do you have to put something somewhere else uh mechanical somewhere they go on the roof or where they the condenser goes on the roof so essentially you will end up with a uh split system inside the unit in closet mechanical closet and the condenser on the roof and did you need to show that on one of your we have we had them on actually yeah I believe you stated that you had it shown on the original plans in case you had to switch it right so it's all those okay individual condenser units towards the center of the RO yeah we keep is where they're generally question and it was I mentioned it but it's our Lord's opinion that it's far enough away from the Neighbors at the top of the the top of the hill so is not to be intrusive visually units visually or sound you're not being asked to do any kind of sound backles or anything like that on those units they're really super quiet units anyway yeah super good thanks and just for purposes of the record can you just identify the sheet yes that we're g to call A8 A8 a130 and then we might as well call A9 sheet A200 which is the revised elevations with the lowered Roof 2 feet and A8 was a130 revised which uh the title of that is roof plan roof [Music] plan and they're all dated 12324 thank you any questions you have my plan on there what plan well there's no the board board MERS don't have plans the question yeah I don't know if there's a question or not but we have the exhibits did you consider changing the shape of the building to reduce this the height of the walls uh not at this not at this point we we looked at your sketch um potential sketch potential yeah there was potential yeah I think they I think theout there was a there was a if I understand correctly Council uh the preliminary approval the retaining oneall was somewhere in the neighborhood of 352 ft uh and there was a request and a condition of approval that good faith effort and paraphrasing uh made to try to lower the retaining wall height and if my recollection is correct retaining wall height was reduced down to approximately 23t 23t from was about 36 ft 35 so with math that's about 13 14 ft probably 40% or so reduction uh that's bad Ma that's why I went to law school the the uh uh from the preliminary that was approved with with with the good pay effer condition to lower uh to this plan is that accurate yeah okay so I guess the engineer um but but but I think there's a the question now is uh has there been consideration and is to lowering it even further yeah our just this would be classified as like a value engineering assignment because what always happens is another eye looking at it comes up with some different way of addressing the problem and if I can discuss that what what my value my quote unquote suggestion is to you know to reduce the ball even further I'm not an architect I'm an engineer so I can't talk about the interior of the building but I came up with some ideas for moving moving the building further to the west or reducing the building to the West and making it an L-shaped building and which would because of where the critical area is is on the east side of of the property because that's where the greatest most critical so that was that was my suggestion and then what I did is I I proposed whopping off or reducing the width of the building by about 44 feet because that's what I originally thought was two bed about approximately two bed or two units per floor and then I added I made the building an L-shaped building and I added 64 ft instead of the and then and the wall went the wall on the back corner went from 22 feet to 15 ft and in the in the L shape the wall went down to 12 feet so I think that I mean it's just something to consider I certainly understand the exercise and I'm just sorry just for the purpose of the record because we're flipping from one expert to another keep both here but so this is fact the engineer who remains under oath Mr sh yeah um so imagine more appropriate I don't want to say more one of the two appropriate people experts to address this inquiry to so uh so please proceed I I think the exercise of looking at alternative options again is something that we had looked at um try to explore other avenues um I agree that any type of L-shaped building one does reduce potential disturbance in height of the wall on the east side but I feel like it creates additional implications on the north side of the building where we're now cutting significantly into that slope into the trail um that portion of the retaining wall that would run around any type of L shape that went deep into the property is now um saying into the slope 10 12 15t in height now all these ground floor units uh all their windows are blocked by retaining walls again we're lessening the overall height of it so it's one addressing some issues on one side but creating additional issues pushing the building further back into the site uh more potential the St been setting neighbors back behind it where now you have en for looking down onto a roof area with condensors on it I think it it solves not solves it helps address some issues while creating additional ones um I agree one of the a couple of the problems are or a couple of the issues they're not problems is it reduces the width of the building as as you look at it from 202 mind World road because it goes from 200 call 26 260 ft to 215 ft so the the width of the mass of the building is decreased and then as I said in the I added in my sketch I added 64 ft and I took off 404 feet if you you want to make it the same dimensions and it was a positive impact of putting the community room at that corner so maybe some sort of combination of the in these issues could be put forth you know if you don't need the 60 64 ft in depth you can only do with the same and then I I left the width of of the new area enough to get a double Road double load of a parking aot underneath so as I said I put some thought into it and I made some recommendations but I'm you know this is like a value engineering assignment where you you work with the applicant you work with the layout and maybe maybe this is not the optimum maybe the 64 ft would only be 44t and then you just with interior layout you but I but basically there's a center hallway that makes a 90° turn and goes north that was that was my idea I'm looking at the uh screen uh that you had and I'm looking at the elevations um it looks like your ground elevation for the parking is at 35033 and the elevation behind the wall where the um trash is is uh 353 yeah the trash is about the same elevation at the ground floor Park I about behind the wall yeah where level there yes so if you did make an lsh building the parking would actually be the part below grade there depending on how far back you so the first FL is above grade there so if that lsh again we're considering an l-shape building we're talking about you know how far we would have to go you would have to go back and then we would have the same raining wall issue really you wouldn't it wouldn't be as drastic as it is on the on the east side yeah the property slops down you still have an instance where that wall is 10 15 foot in height in your ground floor windows are not so it's now encompassing that whole ground floor as it would go around again I I I understand and think that there's uh potential positives as you work on different scenarios of reconfiguring a building but again I think it it also does create additional concerns as well where right I I totally understand from my point of view uh I I was thinking there was going to be a little bit more engineering design changes to the plan from what we spoke about um I uh you know my one of my concerns is that back wall 260 ft straight across now you all you you have a um canopy that's over there that's 6 feet away from the wall uh it's going to be dark is grass going to grow there it's like you I just have issues with that about creating that Valley I mean you're talking about a wall taller than that 10 ft away um with now a roof in there 260t wall with no undulation at all that's just perfectly flat you have two stairwells that could either be pulled in or pushed out to give a little bit of design to it or a little bit of something to that huge mess [Music] um again I was hoping for something more so was I so that's why I put pen to paper CAD to paper and came up with and then I'm not tied to this layout I just look that maybe there's a combination of your layout and what I proposed because I'm not an architect so I couldn't tell you about the interior of the building but I I tried to take the same outside dimensions and come up with something that hopefully would address the the mass visibility from because we reduced it by approximately 20% the width and 15% of the goal Frontage because there was a concern that the building was just long yeah I mean from from an architectural standpoint um you know we a bar-shaped building which this is it's a really efficient uh shape uh cost wise building wise um I mean I think we gave it a really elegant front whether the back is a little flat we could always bump something in and out but again uh it's it's a really efficient layout the stairwells are at the ends there's a certain means of erress distance that we have to meet for fire purposes and you know as you turn in a building it's one it's always Posley um and then to wrap the corner of the building surrounded like a moat with a wall um we thought that while that back corner was somewhat High um I think we did address it by you know moving over the community room um and maybe that front unit gets affected with the wall but mostly everybody else will have more light in air rather than turning and going deeper digging into the to the mountain that front corner is now under this sketch is only 2 and a half ft for wall so I think there's many ways that somebody could look at this but the the application was before the board at the time of preliminary and was approved and then now we have have tweaked it for the purposes of amendment preliminary and final but the in the interim um we're addressing comments that we received at the additional hearing and that were conditioned without completely starting over and redesigning the project so this is an affordable housing project it is in the Burrow's plan um it there's importance in in having this application before this board and having it approved and and I think that the applicant did address many of the comments and as you heard from our experts we do believe that this is a good plan for this particular lot we obviously are constrained by the slopes that are on the lot but um given the features of the property have done the work in between the time of preliminary and this application to reduce the wall significantly as as you had heard it was previously 35 ft we heard the comment that that's not the size wall that this board or the burrow wants then we're able to reduce it by approximately 12 ft so though there are other options for what this could look like this is um what we saw as the most efficient option for this project and in keeping with what was previously provided this board without going back to the drawing board and and starting over and I'd be compelled to add uh so again the board has all the information necessary to make an appropriate reasonable nonarbitrary non attritious and non unreason a reasonable decision uh that in addition to the board having given preliminary approval uh to a project that among other things at a wall that was 35 or so% higher as approved than it is now uh they reduced it by about 35% I think we're doing that math right um the uh the law that governs this board as the council was just referencing uh is in our housing element fair share plan uh and uh it is consistent with the law and it reads the bur of Burnville and this Bo we're dealing with the F development plan as our governing or zoning ordinance uh excuse me the housing fair share plan in the zone zoning our governing ordinance the bur of Burnville will focus on complying with New Jersey administrative Cod 5 93-110 portable housing uh regarding ensuring the elimination of unnecessary cost generating features from Municipal land use ordinances the municipality will eliminate development standards that are not essential to protect the public welfare and will expedite open CR quote FasTrack end quote and brand approvals uh SL denials on inclusionary that's inclusionary development app applications this is 100% affordable no market rate uh the B will coopera with developers of inclusionary developments and by extension is assume all the more 100% affordable housing development applications uh uh uh in scheduling etc etc um so special meetings etc etc so the point is under affordable housing law and under uh the governing of provisions of our housing own fair share plan that we're obligated to abide by uh cost generation is not something that you view when you're dealing with the market rate applicant saying uh I don't want it to be too expensive I want my profit Etc to be more this is a situation where it's 100% affordable housing and we cannot uh uh uh require things that would be quote unquote cost generative I'm not saying saying that on behalf of the applicant I'm saying that as the board's attorney uh to make sure the board understands all the law uh uh and Provisions of our own housing own fair share plan that govern what we do because that's my job to make sure you know what to do when you do your job well if I could just add one more comment this sketch this value engineer sketch reduces the heights of a wall by about 60 about 40% so the I mean the most expensive site element in this development I would think is the is the walls and you know if you can reduce the cost of the wall by 30 40% of what was proposed it's about half of what the it's even less than half of what the original approval was in the 30s I'm got it down to 15 ft when this latest submission had it about 22 feet I just think that it's something to look at just as a cost benefit where you can save the the cost of the site cost and and I'm just asking that you consider a a little bit different layout in the maybe you don't put the the T or the extension to the back at 64 ft if you put it at at 50 ft or something less and then you could you can given take all these elements if I may if what the board is considering and I don't know I know what it's going to ultimately deter but if the board uh is considering the possibility of approving ultimately the application as proposed with the condition that the applicant uh give consideration to an alternative plan or somewhere in between what proposed in an alter plan and if it's determined by the applicant that it is cost beneficial and value added as Le one board member thinks it might be uh uh then the applicant can make the determination to do what is in the economic interest of the applicant um but I don't know that the board should be guessing what's in the economic interest of the applicant or more to the point what isn't isn't cost generative for thec we can't uh do something plus generative I don't know if that's what the board is or might be considering but I guess I'm opposing it to the applicant if the applican uh uh would stipulate if the B so desired uh to in in in context of receiving approval this evening for the proposed plan uh uh having a condition that they will consider the alternative and they have the right the applicant uh uh to proceed with the alternative if it's in their economic interest to do so and not cost gener I think to piggy back on on Mr War's Point as this is a 100% bons project economics is important because the town is a partner in this and we'll have to put Bill to any cost any cost savings would benefit not only the African but the but the burrow as well and if the alternate plan does that then achieves that purpose um to the benefit of both because we're interly tied to the project by virtue of the housing plan and the agreements that have been reached between the buring it's more than that it's benefits the bur dramatically and that was by motivation correct but we don't have un we don't have all the information and to impose it without additional engineering and cost analysis in terms of relocating the spaces the parking and all that that goes into it it's hard to determine I'm not I think it has Merit I think there's an interesting being here in terms of value engineering I I appreciate you know it's not unknown that board members would like to see you know designs and that work in your mind better but I'm concerned about the agreements that are in place I think what Mr Warner is suggesting works because you still have the opportunity to implement something like this if it's beneficial to the burrow economically into the African and it would be mutual and it's good for one it's good for both if it's not good for one ultimately it's not good for both but there has to be an understanding that if they go with an alternate if they don't SEL the full process over again with the because the time is economically detrimental both not to the applicant But ultimately to the as we're aware so we're trying to work out a solution here to open the door to Alternative if it's economically beneficial to the burrow but but not delaying the project such that you know it doesn't happen without a substantial investment on the part of burrow tax dollars to make up a difference in in any funding you lose while we wait for all this engineering and architecture to be worked out as we addressed last time I'm sure the board remembers uh the facts on the ground are uh that the opportunities for low-income housing tax credits are dissipating very quickly and we've been advised that the alternative is the burrow puts to go so % affordable you're on the hook so so uh not only the answer so I don't want to Bel this now the answer is you what you described which is they're aware of this they can investigate it at their option if it's cost beneficial they benefit we benefit more if it's cost beneficial than they do but they can investigate it at their according to however they want to look under the scenario the it's not part of the resolution well the board would be approving what's proposed giving them the option of saving every money if they make that determination yeah and that's something the Bo's considering I just wanted to make sure that the applicant was sck L to it or else you know you give them this plan I assume the the stipulate what I proposed or what what the board he did did taking um so the applicant would stipulate to that again confirming that it's at the applicant's option to investigate further and to make the determination I so discretion recognizing that it's mutually beneficial or it's not uh and and the benefits you the board's comfortable you'll do that benefit for and the bur um but the approval would be of the plan as is if indeed that open what the board s so they should Mark the plan and evidence should you mark the plan concept plan the the uh the alternative concept plan as as that's fine we call iton me as yeah I know yeah that's what I just wrote I was just about to say but that's okay B1 coming from the board not coming from the aen so B1 is a concept by alternative concept plan uh so that we have a document that references the stipulation thank and the not I have one other thing coming back to the issue of the space in the back of the unit you could consider you know you have the bump out back there you could consider pushing the wall further into the hill it'll be higher but further into the hill to create more space where the community center entrances just think about it in other words it's you know how to engineer and architect is just yeah this a thought because you may not care about two more feet back there and I'm available to to help out actually we we don't that wouldn't be appropriate at least at this stage one thing in consideration when I was a kid I grew up in a farm house the place and my bedroom place an air share and screening up to look up to see the blue sky isn't the way you want to live and I think to the extent these apartments face out onto a blank wall will have the same effect I each consider the impact of any of these changes giving a better visual out the window more fresh air and more sunlight not only on the profitability to the town and to the um owner but also on the morals and health of the residents of these you know we're building portable housing we should make it abely livable possible is there a fence on top of the wall do you have to worry about that is there there would be a fence on the top of the wall for all right um black are there any questions I think we on the board and our professionals are there any questions from the public what Ben design will be not solid black L probably black aluminum open p style at the top of the fence at the top of the wall for fall protection but open openid black fences that are open tend to disappear so the I I just want to on theair sorry as a condition so are there any questions of this witness from the public if I mayair what for the engineer since he gave additional testimony to oh sorry just a quick question on A6 that's the crosssection plan I think it was a good idea moving the community room but the question is do you need those full height windows it doesn't do anything for the second Flor but you need to pull height windows in that back corner and they be part of that room bu a little bit like a transing Ty window or something a door there I think your point of trying to bring the grade up outside to lower the height of the wall is that yes exactly that's going to be a cost Factor the 16 foot high wall vers 20 wall if we're able to do something in that area by not having those windows that's certainly something we take a look at to see if that's something we can make work in that area it also it does increase the cost of that wall because it becomes a retaining wall now along around the community room right have to bring up the concrete can't do just stickering this is essentially like slab on grave oh oh the foundational wall for the yeah we can look at it and see if there's anything we could do in that area massage great to further impress that wall it would be a SL on ra you actually have parking below so you and then that to come up yeah or even something where you step the wall back once or twice or something like that the wall goes higher but instead of 10 ft away it's 12 or 14 feet at that at least at the second floor height especially at that area where the community room is in the back and the the overhang are on the front door there the back door there um we need to be mindful of our overall disturbance you we're right at our one acre threshold so anything that we're doing in the back of massaging the disturbance we want to make sure that we stay within that obviously we go above maker that triggers all sorts of different storm water components that are we talk about cost prohibitive to a project that's something we'll keep in mind I think we have some variations in that jog of the wall there if we can kind of maneuver that around that walkway area that certainly something that we'll do take a look at as we try to to finde this design and another motivation I had of pulling the wall to away from the property line is you've got like a 22t wall only a few feet off the property line the way you design that wall and tie it back and falling down and maybe a banner a batter I need you this way you have you have much more width to deal with between the edge of the wall and property one and I just want to make we don't get we can make sure a copy of B1 makes it to our secretary a second all right well you you look at that it's the construction tradeoff and that's cost and how you construct the wall and so forth so fine so no any questions from the no more from any questions from the public none is that your last witness yes thank you go right Public public questions for okay so any comments from the public um if there aren't then and this time you get spor thank you you swear to God affirm that the testim about to give is a truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth Mr duck I do thank you um I just want to say I uh like that trail quite often little Trail great trail and I appreciate the work that the applicant did in keeping access to it um my couple comments on how it lays out when you get to that trail head we have a sidewalk coming one way when you're coming down that Hill obviously I don't know what the um aspects going to be when there's a a building there but right now um you know when you get to the bottom from from that way you're kind of coming like out into the life and being in the woods if you have that um sidewalk that just takes that left and goes into your um private property people got go there um one of one of the issues that we've had well and coming back to the Parks and Recreation plan um one of the things people are asking for haven't asking for and I believe it's the board's Express intent to give them is is connectivity um within our um you know between our green spaces between our residential areas and getting to the parks um so I would respectfully suggest um you know like um Mr sh said you don't want to encourage people to become an in your property um have something there um to say you know residence only I don't I don't know if it has to be a gate um but you know something to signify you go this way you're going into um the residence area you don't want to do that and just I guess suggest Mr sa perm is when you're looking at the landscaping for that 10 easement um really something a lot of problems we have with our with our easement and connectivity is we have easement they're just not marked people don't know about them um so really kind of make it clear that this is a place where the Public's allowed to be and can be and should be if they want to get to the trail um also on that um point I missed the last meeting um so I don't know whether it was mentioned but I do remember it was mentioned last year when this application was first year uh going back to connectivity was the idea that we wanted to be able to bring these residents um and and the the residents further up the hill there uh down to Rose bow and to the ner new nervine Trail when the dam is removed and and uh and that's um reestablished so there was conversation about maybe the applicant taking the ball and running with it on getting a crosswalk across 202 there that would connect the residents to the Rose bow baseball field get you know kids over there place to play as well as the access to the trail that them behind ver Hall and and up to the park so I don't know whether that was discussed or whether that's something that um could be done but I don't know I just feel like having more connections more people you know asking um sometimes our phone calls to D don't get returned as quickly as other people I don't know just something I thought i' mention but yeah thank you for for your work on on could the experts um would that be the responsibility of the town for example like uh to Mark with a sign uh that e would that be on the town as opposed to the applicant um in future I guess technically the applicant the can do it with the township with the bu's permission or a B could do it I guess it should be responsibility that we signage The Bu wants to be sure it's what I'm needs to be a clear delation to what's and what's so that don't trespass and are directed like a way finding sign proper Trail I think that's in everybody's interest does it make sense it may make sense if the applicant so stipulates to have that subject to the negotiation discussion with the township Comm bur committee bur Council my apologies uh the the the the uh that's why you say governing body with the bur Council to to uh uh to decide who and how and where is that something the applicant can stipulate to as far as the demarcation for the benefit of the public and the we work out condition we'll design it and we'll keep that in mind when we look with the app yes thank you I was just looking for the yes any more questions what is the status of the do application uh there's a pending application to do they provided some comments um there is some discrepancies between the application the originally being signed by the applicate not by The Bureau they want a traffic control plan review the storm order um so that stuff is still pending uh couple details taper on the new proposed curbing along Mook Road um all items that we're sending back to them to to get back into their Court uh to continue that approval process you need do approval to get your financing we would need do approval to close out our board compliance compliance uh before it would get to the stage of construction but um well my question is does that hold up your ability to draw from the available fund so we have to complete resolution compliance and then have our final set of construction drawings in order to file for finance so all of the conditions inclusive of Outside Agency approvals have to be okay you can pull a building from without the it's pending you need the regulations required for a CO do regul working forp would never issue any kind of BU about D either letter of no interest or permanent because God forbid something happens and they they' know the B project so you would have sign plans would would let you sign that's a condition of approval all other governmental agencies that's a standard thing so we love to help you out but that's one that you know you got to deal with saying DOT regulations say that they can you can pull a building permit but you don't you need it co for the do that would have to be a specific condition okay for us to sign yeah plans so we say it's at the applicant risk and yeah then that that should be clear in the resolution because we're tied to the condition of the resolution and whatever the funding gr because there are any number of considerations if that's what they needed a building they could get I'm just saying need to be authorized to do that AGC just saying those are do regulations the resolution we can we can require for C which would help them I was you have to get back first I you on no you well it's a risk yeah the timing may you know you may need it for timing I gu should make that so I think part of the challenge is that when you file these applications for financing the hmfa looks at their checklist of items and one of those is that you completed your resolution compliance so it's the condition we have to have it if it impacts the design of the plan in any way um they're going to ask us about it so so we wouldn't be doing them any favor is that the bottom line it likely would not help like we wouldn't be able to bypass it with with financing anyway um okay we closed the public just did now and and so we're waiting for summary summation if anything sure I will um keep it brief so as we stated earlier this evening we are here for amended preliminary and final site plan relating to this 100% municipally sponsored affordable housing project uh we believe that we have heard the comments from the board and your professionals and have returned with with plans that address those comments um providing a great building for these units on this property we believe that we have reduced the retaining wall sufficiently in order to provide enough light and open air and also make it constructible um we've addressed the trail easement and will continue to do so with the burrow so that we can finalize the actual paperwork for that easement um we as you've heard through testimony this evening also we're able to address comments from your Fire official to make sure that the the building and the plans are um safe from their perspective as well so overall uh we think this is a great project and it will certainly satisfy the U affordable housing requirement as to this property and at the overall um the second of of three overall sites so um we hope that the board looks fa on this appliation and if I may Mr chairman I just want to confirm with Council the relief of being requested on the board before the board deliberates and decides whether not Grant sir the the amended preliminary and final site plan approval and the deviations I have in my notes uh please correct me if we I'm wrong uh we still have front yard setback 16.6 ft versus 35 ft minimum required yeah and you still have exception for fing setback from property line 5.2 ft versus 10 ft no that was eliminated that was eliminated thank you uh parking set back from M Road 14 ft versus 25 ft uh where and then the only other one I have say work applicant Council please let me know if there's another one other than this one the is the one we did this evening which is the strict constru relief from the strict construction of the affordable housing provision to the extent it would require set relief for a superintendent apartment yes and also signage which is effectively roughly the same if not the same as the except the relief that was granted to application same size it's a little bit larger just based on the C limit of this particular Road um and so for than 42t tall by 10t in length with with I guess right can I the location and the location in front yard right I just ask a question clarification of the sign uh you have a generic name where it says Community something have you named that um building yet not yet so it's not just going to be the number the address which will be Snappy like today we be a name an address and then RPM community at the bottom and then what on the bottom it says an RPM Community theot was that is that everyone's agreement that those are theist also yeah the just the front yard is there also sign just descrition sign right yep make I got it okay so and the board has so the board now knows the belief being requested if it's a grant I'll assume it's a gr with all the stipula through conditions unless you want to not require any of them let me know you're takeing any out uh but that's what I would understand there be relief granted to be pardon me any the board do want condition Mr R we also have um that our exception potential exception from rsis if they require the utility poll I was gonna ask [Music] that for and I'm sorry for the utility poll about the if they require a new utility poll on our side oh instead of going under ground know that we put the board's familiar with that one well same reason and what about a flexibility on the rear set back oh you want to leave EV Al which could also result in flo disturbance that may uh we could still give them step back and slope disturbance to the extent required uh if the alternative layout is beneficial and the C2 benefits argument for that would be the savings and cost and the better uh design that satisfies purpose I but um with better design Alternatives so there's dou visual EnV correct thank you Mr and that would that would cover that still a better lawyer uh as a planner than I am a planner as a laer whatever we know I'm sorry okay so I did is that all the that's all the relief and again I'll assume it's with all the STI to conditions if it's an approval of four out of six or more uh for a passage of this 100% affordable housing project uh pursuing to our settlement agreement housing own share plan resing orins okay so you need a motion right who wants to move resolution the resolution that think that is a motion to conditions Ken second he miss Gardner yes Mr Graham yes Mr Hartz yes Mr Simo yes Mr Walden no and Mr zarino yes the motion cares 5 to1 thank you very much don't go anywhere uh if does anyone want to break for 9:30 not no take a break until 9:30 gonna say you're like well I'm not a AR like real there's no sidewalk also really people the CR of the hill is right at the beginning why wouldn't that [Music] far yeah ser I don't [Music] know we gu [Music] I don't have no speed in and out of this room we don't have [Music] really [Music] all right ready yes and so we're ready whenever you are to hear we are now ready to hear the mbook road renewal Association uh their proposal the third uh which is for 18 M Ary Road uh it's block 124 L one uh there're seeking amended preliminary and final major affordable multif family site G some f back in Ju here and for those that don't know this is the the L so we are ready Mr chair as applicants about to give the opening I just want to remind the board and everyone that uh uh the notice was provided for December 14th I believe at which point we uh found that the bo the notice was sufficient uh and the board had jurisdiction we carried it without further notice to January 11 and then again to evening January 25th both without further notice and we do have the appropriate extension of time to act for at least the end of this month uh uh and I believe once once we get rolling I think we might need to confirm that we've been the application being complete for both our planner and engineer never proceeded but still out Council thank you Mr Warner good evening again we're back um so we are now here on behalf of the applicant for the purposes of the record Nicole madzak m a g DZ a k of the law firm day Pitney um M Brook Road urban renewal Associates LP is seeking amended preliminary and final site plan approval related to the property at 18 Mount Ary which is designated as block 124 lot one on the Burrow's tax map as some members of the board uh may recall this application received preliminary approval by resolution October 13th of 2022 to remove the existing paved parking lot that's currently on the property and to construct two a two twostory multifam dwellings for a total of 12 units the amended application that's for you this evening continues to seek approval for two multif family buildings each to contain six units we're proposing a two bedom units and four three bedroom units in this particular development um we are also um proposing Associated parking and Landscaping sidewalks so other related site improvements what you'll note from the testimony that you heard this evening is that there are several um I'll call them main changes that were made to the plans between the time of preliminary and now this amended preliminary and final application um the building was actually slid back within the lot so as you may recall there was an easement shown on the plans initially a potential easement to New Jersey American Water we have since been notified that that eent will no longer be located in that particular spot so we were able to move the building back away from the road which was actually a comment that we received at the time of preliminary we also relocated the drive aisle as far south as possible on the site and we eliminated any Windows facing the neighboring property owner which was a concern at the time of preliminary so with that I'd like to one address completeness and make sure that the um board and this professionals consider this application to be deemed complete and then to the extent that that is determined we have two witnesses this evening one is our engineer Kevin Shelly and our architect Aon puno j i position that this is an amended prelimary final and that the details that were not provided they agreed to provide part of the preliminary pools we' already granted those waivers so I figured let's proceed with the application I felt that ising to mention think this have a few things that wanted to see wave technically and I that I Carri three items that were in the original completeness review uh that we have agreed to do within 100 property we did have a reflection on whether what the height of retaining walls are going to be based on the Contour information that provided structures within 300 ft I know there's an aerial map on the plan kind of hard to see the Adent structures from that we recommend be increased in size the other one is the property owners list usually there Property Owners list on plans they had agreed to that know haven't been done but again those were third one the property what property owners on the plan additionally it's on the plan obviously there's a list because it's submitted with the application notice is given and it's reviewed established for hearing um but it's it's a good thing to have on the plane then you can observe you know who's attracted but also if you have any complex with been I know board I know likes to see that so just for the benefit of the board members and any members of the public the these are this is item four on page two of Mr bry's August 18 2023 memo at least as I see it and those pre checklist items are there so they wer previously granted plinary here they were granted the understanding they put on the plan so that should be carried if the board in your opinion can the board hear the application and have those three conditions of approvable I have no issue with that okay do I good okay so does the board de the application complete then and uh recognizing that one or more of those conditions would be conditioned of approval all right all I anyos None you been I think we can continue with the chair's permission course thank you um so with that we'd like to introduce our first witness Kevin Shelly oh since this is a new hearing Mr Shelly I would while I swear you in I'll ask everyone else who's going to testify to allow me to swear them in including our board professionals which is bright so please raise your right hand do all of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony is about to that you're about to give Tru the whole truth not the truth thank you Mr Shelly just because this is a new application can you just provide the board with your um background education and confirm that your license is first sure I am a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey since 2012 my license is current and in good standing um testified in Fr of VAR Sports acoss State previously from of the sport including as long ago as 5 we'd like to offer him as an expert and engineer accept thank you thank you um at the beginning here I would just like to um Mark a couple exhibits that I would like to use this evening um the first we can call as exhibit [Music] A1 which is a colored site rendering of the proposed development it is dated January 11th 2024 um I have exhibit A2 which is a colored site rendering of the application that was presented to the board for preliminary approval that plan is dated August 4th 2022 and I also we have another exhibit A3 which is just an updated layout plan um based off of the uh changes um that were made to the plan recently uh as it was indicated that the New Jersey American Border easement has been taken away so we made a couple modifications to the plan that is shown in front of the board uh again that is a updated layup plan dated January 11th 2024 Mr chairman with your permission if I could ask for clarification am I correct that when you say the easement was taken away that it may not have been in E actually ever located uh uh JC JC NJ New Jersey American Water uh on the site there was perhaps an expectation that it might be located there but if I understood correctly but actually it will not be located there it will be located elsewhere off site is that accurate correct it was a proposed EAS in at the time of the initial concept planning on the site we were advised by the buau that they've been were negotiating with New Jersey American Mort to provide an easement through this property and we were asked to work around it um which we had tried to do every step of the way um for a small property a 25 foot wide e was pretty impactful to our development options um so again we were advised that the burough was no longer pursuing uh any easement through this property with New Jersey American Water uh and so the plan was updated accordingly um the plan so they've updated the plan oh yeah no absolutely yeah more than nure but just so everybody understood it actually never even existed correct it was always a proposed e yeah it's not being moved off site it's just not originally being moved on site it's starting elsewhere so the subject property is located on the Eastern side side of Mount ay Road just to get everybody familiarized with the project again B the railroad property to the north again currently a municipal parking lot um it is 74 acres in size it is a flag shaped or Panhandle shaped depending on your n cature here um and it is located in the affordable housing ah6 zoning District the applicant propos oses to construct two twostory apartment buildings totaling 12 units all of which are low to moderate income affordable housing units um which are permitted use in the ah6 zone at I we'll use exhibit A2 now to show at the time of the preliminary hearing the design the property had the dry vial in the northernmost end of the site abing the railroad property uh again it was trying to respect New Jersey American Border easement that was proposed at the time with the buildings pushed the far southern end of property um main concern at the time was the drive a and its location to the overpass over the railroad tracks up battery think we ran out of battery um at the top of the plan uh there were concerns about line of sight um and and visibility concerns from the site [Music] entrance there is Sor uh so the drive a was located on the Northern end of the site um closer to the overpass over the railroad tracks than currently exists today for the municipal paring lot um it was both comments from the board as well as comments we received from Somerset County um and the recommendation was and what we portrayed to the board at the time of preliminary was we would uh come up with an alterate concept that that took this drive a pushed it as far south away from the railroad crossing uh as possible to give as much line of sight looking that way as possible um and that is what we have done again flipping back to exhibit A1 no not exhibit that's exhibit A1 um so again the drive aisle of the property is now located as far south as we can uh you can see in the bottom left corner here there's an existing uh utility easement for Transformer on the property uh the proposed drive a is pushed right up against that easement the parking spaces are pushed right up against that easement to try to maximize the space um the parking the drive aisle comes in pass the first building uh turns 90° we've got parking spaces up against the rear six unit building and the other parking spaces uh located along the southern property line here the main change from the plans that are that were submitted to the board as part of the amended and prelim amended preliminary and final application uh is now the removal of that proposed New Jersey American watert easement uh which previously and on the plans in front of you took this first building and pushed it right up on the drive uh not ideal but we were trying to work within the constraints of that American Water easement uh without the easement the building shape was reconfigured a bit the building was pushed back from the prop from the drive VI now uh so it is now 11 ft back from the drrive a there's no need for variance relief um for a internal roadway proximity to one building there um so we're able to eliminate that one condition um and really it creates a better flow uh for the development uh we've got parking spaces located along the southern property line um similar as the time of the preliminary application this site along with all the other sites that we've discussed for the affordable housing plan uh requires retaining walls to flatten the site in order to uh create a development pad for for both buildings so long the Southern Property Line uh the Eastern property back behind building 2 and along the northern property line along the railroad tracks are retaining walls the walls in total I'm sure giving you the best information here um the northern wall would be a maximum height of 5 feet and there will be a solid vinyl privacy fence installed on top an eastern wall back behind building number two is about 2 feet in height and again there will be a 6 foot vinyl privacy fence on top and the Southern Wall along here will have a maximum height of 4.7 feet there will be a guide rail installed between these parking spaces that abut uh the retaining wall and then again a 6ot solid vinyl privacy fence will be installed behind the guide rail on top of the wall um the private Defence will provide visual screening from any type of headlights that are parking in these spaces so they are not impactful to the neighbor um the um again so we're talking about the retaining walls they're 5 feet and under uh the development site is on the high side as opposed to the m Brook property that we just discussed where that was located on the low side of the retaining walls and those those walls would be impacting uh the residential units um the subject properties on the high side of all the retaining walls um so that is the wall design is not impacting the others um again an updated application was submitted back to the county for additional feedback uh the county has requested additional survey work in both directions along um mountary Road uh which we've obtained in all likelihood based off of still again the drive a is as far south as possible we can't push it any further but in all likelihood there's still not going to be the appropriate site distances from the drive a looking over the railroad crossing um further north which would mean that we're expecting the the the county would would limit the Turning movements leaving the site there would be a no left turn out of the site it would be required to turn right um out of the property uh based off of the the visibility again there's not much we can do with the overpass uh and the abutment and fencing located along the railroad there um so that we believe that in all likelihood is going to be the outcome of our conversations with County or are they going to require be channelized I don't have that information from that they haven't provided that we believe though just based off of the additional survey information that they requested and what we found during that survey that there's not going to be an appropriate line of site from here to there so we don't believe that they're going to permit there to be that left turn movement out of the site I don't have any other feedback from the county at this point besides um besides their request for additional information where's the current I mean the current parking lot current parking lot I can the the driveway for the current parking lot is a little bit further to the north this is an improved Seline over what's there it's an improvement from what is there now and that is the argument that the traffic well yes the argument is the traffic generated by 12 units compared to what a municipal parking lot is is much much less substantial but again in all likelihood we want to make sure that there's a safe um sefe maneuverability out of the site and that's why we believe the likelihood that it's they will limit it to to not permit a left turn out of the site go down Anderson Road left stre you got the ability to turn down Mr chairman I apologize but as the board knows it's a hearing we can't have convers ations on the day it just has to be testimony back and forth one individual speaking at a time all right well you you obviously know today it's a worse condition than what you're proposing and yeah uh but they have the option saying well it's not quite whatever so good corre we we've made the application we've made our points and Analysis at the end of the day it's the count jurisdiction as to what happens with the Turning movements from this driveway we've improved them to the maximum extent that we can um and that's where the applications at and what about left turns in they mention that they not mentioned that can't get in anyway that's okay sorry we're we live here so know keep going um in the application uh we are proposing 18 parking spaces uh for the 12 units that is a parking ratio of one and a half spaces per unit rsis requires 24 parking spaces with a 10% reduction for the EV so the total required for the property is 21 and again 18 spaces are being proposed uh which will require variance as well as dominous exception from maras and if I may Mr chairman just on that one item if I recall correctly Mr Z correct me from wrong but more importantly I think I I I stole that memory from something Mr Z told me but there is something built into to the definition of that parking requirement as well as a part correctly RSI is uh and and that is uh uh an exception for proximity to uh uh uh uh downtown Andor Transit oriented development you railroad etc etc that might be applicable for the board to consider again if I recall correctly not so not only in the context of variance relief but also in the context of if a variance is even deemed necessary by the board because the board has flexibility I hope I got that close to right page three of my report section 20 b 20.7 A2B talks about the relaxation of requirements where the applicant burns on the applicant to demonstrate the board satisfaction that the standards can be reduced and and the standards are derived from the rsis and it talks about uh proximity to and availability for example public transit if that's viable you know things that is that the app should address that as if I though am I correct that they the board can consider that BAS on the op presentation both in the context of whether the variance relief should be granted but also to the extent the variance relief is I know it's another way of saying it on semantics but but is uh or or the requirement is alleviated so that perhaps even the variance relief is not necessary that correct yeah yeah you can determine that can't have both it's all same determine based on proper testimony that the variance is not required it just as a further statement RSI is a state Point while in Hoboken you don't require the same amount of parking as you do in t SP exactly so rsis permits alternate parking standards based off a variety of different aspects um healthful characteristics is one of them and the second one that I'd say is applicable to this site is location of available mass transit the fact that train station is qu mile away 5 mile walk to the site is a huge bonus five minutes no mile qu mile away um but the main aspect is household economics here and we're talking about affordable housing um the we have worked on hundreds of affordable housing projects across many different municipalities across state um RPM has thousands of affordable housing units within their portfolio that they own and maintain and manage there are instances where we've had to develop sites as 100% affordable housing developments following RSI departments and it ends up being a massive C of vacant parking spaces that are never used that would be better purpose as Green Space um in almost every instance one and a half spaces per unit for family developments is the maximum that they see in terms of highest occupancy um and that's not even accounting for developments that have the availability M Transit we're talking about Suburban sites that we have that one and a half spaces is the maximum that you find it's just not the economics of affordable housing are different compared to a market site development where some of units have where everyone has a car or people have more than one car the reality is on affordable housing sites some people won't have a part of many people will not have two vehicles the one and a half spaces per unit for affordable housing development Falls well in line with um what what RPM sees as they manage all their PRS um it's in line with with what we found on other affordable housing projects that we've worked on all across the state that one and a half spaces for a family site regardless of the availability of M Transit is more than adequate but again for this particular site with the location and the availability of that Transit that's an extra bonus um for this property as well and Mr Shell planner will also support that in testimony or cor as well as part of the planner you engineer with maybe it's appropriate Mr as a planner if you con that has been my experience as well there's certain demographic differences between inclusionary 100% developments where uh we're noticing that the parking standards are over greater than for the reasons that Mr Shell has testif so I could iner that that's been our experience and that's what we've observed this what's the green uh box in the center lower the South Center what is that green rectangle what is that that's just a small curved Island that separates the last parking space um this area here is uh an for vehicles to back up um out of these parking spaces for the trash truck as it pulls in to be able to have an Avenue to K turn and get their way out uh this is just a small grass medium that's in the way so it's not all asphalt what's the bump bu the little bump uh to the right of it what's that again that's a backup space for a vehicle parking here you want at least 5 feet from that V from the end of that parking space for that car to be able to back out pull out of their space and be able to make that maneuver to get out so it's a turnaround space for vehicles as well as the the trash Tru as it navigates the site so that it's not ending up in a scenario where it's trying to back out um it can pull in pick up the trash back into that area and get out so I did value engineering too so when we get to it okay gives you two more parking spaces more parking spaces in last and I don't see explicitly that you Define the one what amounts to a b accessible space um it's supposed to be 11 ft you see the Slash the the hatch yes the hatch section is always 5T by code yep the if it's van accessible it's 11 ft which you've got the space for right we typically show all of our spaces at 9 foot and then we add that extra and then at the end once we finalize the details that Island strips down to 5 ft it also has to be 22 ft deep so You' got to have allow for that in your access way so do do we do we have that again the the building here is not near the front set back if this building needs to shift forward to that additional can depth we we can there's a way to do it like I say I can get two more spaces yeah that that I was just getting confirmation on the record that they can do it they they'll be able to but they have to know they need to do it yeah to accomplish so your site plan shows a different shows the parking space shows the hated area to the north from the parking space to the South correct this this crosswalk across here has been has been shifted uh the handicap accessible space has been mirrored as well what is your handic cap obligation I mean clearly you could when once you have the the 11 ft which is that'll be which is a van accessible and the 5 foot hash the space next to it will comply as to be 8T yes you need least eight spes a second a do you how many you only re one you only need one does it it has to be van accessible yes and it also has to be e right so that's where there's the new roles we found that short answerers we had the flexibility to make this an additional handicap accessible non EV space yeah to make sure that it complies with the EV rules the ADA rules okay because I know you've got a lot opportunity I'm just saying you can get two more spaces for you so then it becomes the minim or whatever you're arguing 1.5 you can get two more okay keep going the other oh by the way you were explaining the shortcomings of the first plan yes the first one it obscurely had you got out of your car you walked around the building to get to your front entrance it was totally un there were several shortcomings of the plan to try to work within all those constraints yeah you did parking wasn't great the circulation none of it was ideal no I think this plan greatly improves all those shortcomings it improves the visibility out the intersection to the to the maximum extent that it can um so I think this is a much improved plan versus what was originally shown to the board and we told you we were going to do these things and we believe that we follow through with and the retaining wall on the North Edge is not the kind of retaining walls we've been talking about it's a retaining wall that lets you build to the line right I mean yes we are the high side you're the high side and you're filling in retaining the other one is the reverse EV Yes mine Brook is a completely different type of no you know it's you're filling into the W okay and another question about the county county I believe has this as a what is the right wayos right away the yeah mount AR I believe it was 66 fet is [Music] the request um where does 6 so we've we've the that was in the County's initial review was to provide a RightWay dedication we countered back with an easement along the property Frontage um in Li of um the dedication which they agreed to I'll zoom in so everybody can see it on here mean meaning the county accepted the easement as opposed to the dedication correct correct correct yeah a dedication then starts to trigger all sorts of impacts a building of coverages setback issues so the county agreed to take uh an easement on the Frontage um in Li of right of identication so 33 ft from Sun line yeah that's where the pushes are correct yeah the improvements here there's a dash line on here this line in the front is the current property line This dash line here is the new easement that would be dedicated to the county if they for whatever reason decided they could ever ride on the road there and had enough there's a Transformer on the right side of the E the correct side no it is the Transformer would not be impacted the signage would not be impacted then we'll get into the Transformer F Transformers f y okay while we're on the topic um a monument sign is proposed uh at the front of the property uh variance relief variance relief is required sign size it is 4 1/2 ft tall by 7 and 1/2t long the sign area itself 2 and 1/2t by 6 foot not going too fast through there no is it on is it on the Southwest located on Sou so I wish I had your delivery the base is 2 foot by 7 and2 foot with a masonry veneer to match the buildings it's at the ement line which in that area it's 10 foot back from the mountary road Frontage but it's located outside of the county so same sign that was proposed at 63 burnner for contact again it's located the detail of it is on plans here reference and variance relief as 63 b as far as dimensions and and and SE location and set different than set different on yeah this is 10 foot from the property line and outside of the count so so front yard still is a deviation as well as the size sign as well as the sign and what is the setb again 10 foot no I mean what is the required setb again don't know if there required sign is not permitted oh on the property line but there is no setback it's just that it can't be in the front of yard right and do as we did with the other application I would suggest we wrap that into the VAR to allow a sign and to the site plan yep yep this sign is provided for identification purposes correct correct um one other change that go the layout plan just so everybody can see again this is exhibit 83 which is just an updated site layout in the very front corner of the building here um if you look on the opposite side there's a jog in the building there was previously a job contemplated in this corner um we had conversations with New Jersey American Water about the property um they've been very helpful with providing some initial feedback to us um and right now the the concept for this property to avoid having a hot box out here we've enclosed this area of the building or expanded this corner of the building to create a water room uh water service from Mar Road will come into the building where we will have back F prenter all required water equipment located in this water room um and from there water lines will exit the building and go service the back uh site is the the building in the rear as well but there will be no need for a hot box um everything inside will be private once it leads that water room um so we've been able to get that feedback from American Border to make sure that we don't have a hot box um requirement now as a result of that um well I'll talk about the trash enclosure here as well too um the it was recommended at the time of preliminary um and in Mr bry's letter again that again the bar ordinance is trash enclosures have a roof structure over them to prevent spillage and the g out into the uh the roadways into the storm water system uh We've agreed to put a roof structure over top top of the enclosure um again when I say roof to me that means it's part of building coverage um with the addition of this area as well as the addition of this water room the building coverage for the property now exceeds the required just want to make sure I have all the areas written down yeah the the 25% requirement um and 25.5% is what is proposed uh so this is a additional 154 squ ft of roofed area added to the development 05% of coverage the building itself meets the 25% threshold but when we add in the covering over the trash closure as well as the enclosed water room that puts it over the 25% threshold um again if you looked at it as if there's a hop thing or it's a variance we're noting it a variance that you need it's a variance that we need the alternative is we don't cover it and we have a hop box outside no no no no I just yeah just for the record we have the 25.5% versus 25% and I think what Mr Z and I are hearing uh is C2 argument that the benefits outweigh the detriments the benefits being no hot box and the cover dump yes sir so Mr we believe this is a better design alternative from a PL for second absolutely is there anything that would prevent you from sliding the Box the dumpster three feet to the left you could still open the gates you feet to the left uhhuh is there some distance that has to be from the building or anything like there's nothing right I mean you could slide it there right yeah I think in the we can ship that yeah the the a needs to be 10 ft from a building the the uh the answer is then that it's got to be 10 ft away oh just the aisle the AIS the aisle right so this curve line here is 11 ft but you see where the doors are hinged yes that could theoretically be to the left 3 feet or 2 and A2 ft then how do you get to the left side of the enclosure you don't get to the left side it's open through the front door there is no left side of the enclosure I'm asking because this is where you can get an extra parking space okay so it's just part of it I just want to know if there's anything that would yeah so again we've got the ability for if this drive a needed to shift and it became to you know less than 10 ft to this building building the building has the ability the side walk to the back of the dumpster just slide the dumpster over 3 feet it's so the door just opens straight that's all okay well come back to it later okay that's Mr Shell as part of our preliminary application we had a couple other deviations on the plan requiring we relating to the proximity of the parking aisle to the buildings the parking spaces the lot lines can you just run us through which of those deviations we still have on the plan and which ones have been eliminated sure the only deviations that are still applicable again the drive a in proximity to building one requires no relief the uh wave or guess variance is required for the internal roadway um and parking area again we've got this turnaround area that is 3.2 feet from the Southern Property Line uh whereas 10 ft is required we've got parking spaces along the southern property line that are 3.8 ft from the property whereas 10ts required and then we've got the parking spaces in front of building two in the rear of the site that are 8 1/2 ft from the building whereas 10 ft is required so those would be the three rear rear set back's good right uh for the East Building correct there's no setback variances for any of the buildings over there on the right hand side everything's good there it correct we comply with the setback requirements for for both buildings it's the proximity of the parking to the property line the drive a to the property line and then the the parking to the front and Mr Shelly generally the magnitude of this relief is similar to that was granted previously at the time of preliminary approval correct similar yes there's instances where we've been able to eliminate some of the inconsistencies we talked about the shortcomings of the original plan and the the lack of access to be able to walk across from one space to another because the park spaces up against the building so we've improved that uh but the magnitude is very similar if not reduced from the preliminary application and in your professional opinion the circulation that's provided for here is improved over the prior plan and is safe for residents that are accessing the parment lot yes what is what is the purpose or what happens to the stem of the property so wall yep you you see there's a wall here uh that's required to create the Flat Pad around the building that wall ends up cutting off access back to this uh back area so once the site is constructed the wall is built the fences are put up that that piece of the property um there is no access to it there is no access around the buildings again your building is 5 ft in the property here um that's not enough space to even try to promote any type of access around to get back to that space uh and we believe just that that space in general um again it's a it's a very small area that provides little benefit to um to the community uh in general well if you put some steps across the wall then could he use that some sort of passive Recreation it's in theory could you could we put steps through here yes getting residents around the corner of a 5 foot building up against the wall again I I don't think that's a great plan but that might be active Recreation instead of pass I'm sorry but is it viable to put three steps through the wall here the wall is only two foot yes it's viable to provide access back there is any aspect of the plan you know the ratios and covered and stuff dependent on the Flag Staff or the Panhandle area is it the if it weren't if it weren't deed to you by the town yep does it affect the application yes the 25 25.5% building coverage is dependent on this property needs the yes okay you know putting a la there right I don't know how practical be to utilize that back piece it might be better there's going to be more discussion on this topic I I know there so as you know so but uh I think that you know it's a recreational amenity I think it' be hard it it requires Great Vision to figure out how that might happen given the state of in I agree with you well I I'm not saying that it should be used recreational but if it is deed to you you have to maintain it in some way you have to make sure that it's kept clean and and safe but if you have a wall there how are your maintenance people going to get back there to maintain it again there there would be have to be a means through that wall to access that space whether that's an area that's open to the residents Community is a different topic but if it's a maintenance area that would need to be maintained and we would need to have the appropriate measures to access is it a retain or a fill wall you know the two different types we just talked about is this a wall where you're wall and then filling to create a level corre total level okay it's not a retaining wall where you're holding back no we're not holding anything back we're building up to create a flat flat head where so the steps would be to the right the steps would be out into that space correct again it's only a twoot wall in that area it's continuation of the wall on the that's on the North Boundary where and there to keep it what El that's something I have anything regarding the canical on the building and where where are they relative I'm just thinking of the neighbor sou so there's Mechanicals that are in these little cutouts back behind the building that's where the condensers are same thing in this bump out back behind the building okay uh they'll be screened appropriately in accordance with the bur ordinances um but they're tucked back behind the buildings and where are the buildings want excuse me where the building the houses on lot four where's the house on lot four uh it's not where you're it's it's not back here we will have Landscaping as well as the six foot Solid V privacy pretty big backyard on top of the those lines there they would continue to extend to show the entirety of lots four and five in other words Lots four and five don't end there no back up against the railroad or whatever correct they do not end here we can extend the viewport to show exactly they are I was one of Mr Bright's comments about just adding in anything within um 300 that we would go and expand and add any you know additional structures that come up it it is more of a concern for lot 2011's right there so you you can see them on the right or this arrer look at something you didn't get there yet the color the hous is there front the street great Point thank you you can see this is that lot for these buildings are frontting the street over here y pretty deep yes but that one that we created 2011 that's that's right next to this that's why about the mechanical yeah that's the house that's closest to yeah the spr is still there access the water line would just come from building one run through the site TI to the front of the building and the sprinkler flipping same thing building one still has a small sprinkler room on the right corner but in the front left corner is where the water room backb prenter all that stuff is going to done with all your experience with um affordable housing do you find you have to you need to put bicycle RS in yeah we we would or people bring them into their houses or no we we would want the bicycle rack outside on this we put one in somewhere corre or two whatever okay any more questions need it on the plan with a detail and a location professionals or board members of this witness I was asking if our board if our professionals or our board members had any more questions for this witness because then I was go ahead wait your discussion about additional parking spaces to see where that ended up before I asked well I don't know when they would like to talk about getting additional parking spaces I was just um the set back from the parking space building too can that be made toly can be a little more landc between That Sidewalk so the headlin are not aiming at the that's the 8.5 get it you have 11 you have 11 on one side that was 10 you're n and a half that's probably close enough right yeah the building would ship for first building without have the ship forward slightly take everything and move it accordingly um yeah but I think it's something to could accomplish so I wasn't sure if you needed that strike aisle to the EV parking spaces or not I don't think it's requirement it was something that we thought when we have parking on the opposite side of the drive aisle giving somebody at least a designated PA across uh would be nice I think when we start shiting Drive ISS and moving things around that would be something that would get eliminated it's two cars that are going to have AIS so is there a way of from the northeast corner making that a little bit wider to get access to the reused part of the site right there reducing the building to get around it if you move the building you going to move the building to the left we we've been mindful to ensure that this building does not get closer to this property line on the souly line the the rear building will not shift in order to get the 10 FP from the building the parking the front building would shift forward by maybe a foot um and then the whole parking was Shi with it but the building itself would stay in the same location your northeast corner of the East Building is that's right on the set back line it's literally right there yes again if it's 5ot you put a walk again it's 5 foot you've got the retaining wall that starts on the property line retaining wall again it's a 5 foot wall little bit of batter fence back behind it in reality you're talking about four feet it's you're you're really yeah just what you said you're really 5et but there's stuff on the property there 5et there is a door back there I it's somewh accessible the only door that's on the back of the building is a sprink closet I see all the other doors to the units are from the center called an Atrium but there a covered entry W all and there wouldn't be access around the bottom right corner because of landscaping uh correct so there's no access around the bottom side there's some yard inlets to be to get drainage away from this area um it's not a again it's not a a traveled area that what about fire accents you spoken to fire chief we spoken to the fire chief about the Mind Brook site I have no comments from the part Chief about uh the site Beyond um because what they want to get the back of the building not I we don't have any comments you have Windows you have bedrooms with Windows on the back of the building there'll be windows on the back there's no windows on this side of the building facing the southern of the property line that was one of the items that we talked about at the preliminary no I just me the standpoint of the bedroom like you know it's an emergency access you got window it's expected that someone could potentially save you out of that window I'm going to suggest something a little crazy but it what would happen if you took the North wall of the East Building and you angled it and you made it parallel to the property line I know it's words suppose you said I want that wall to be set back 10 ft from the property line all the way along the wall right so it's big up front and it Narrows to the back and I know it's definitely not what your architectural design is but it's something to just think about potentially that it will be beneficial to have Side Access for various purposes that'll come up and I don't want to create additional cost right so I don't I just don't know the the implications of the construction you were to to that I'm not asking you to step it I'm not asking you to reduce the floor space it affects two units right that are they're both three three I can architect come talk through the what that is in that area and may all right uh are there any questions I just want to just double check one thing brightly didn't have anything in particular in his report I just want the applicants engineer and council with the applicant uh to confirm that the applicant will STI at his conditioned to approve all items set forth in Mr bry's uh nine page report August 18 2023 that's the last one the last one based off of the plans that we have we made some changes to them they actually address any remaining yeah any remaining of the letter yes we we'll work with Mr Bradley and and I didn't mean to take away from Mr Bradley had any specific ones he wanted to identify just if not I wanted to make sure really substantive I mean something you want us to are carried carried from our resolution they going to address them I think these are more they're all addressable they're all you know honorous essentially luring and and is that the same with Mr sa planning okay yeah not too many items but compliance with the electric vehicle ordinance Landscaping Landscaping Landscaping work with the I major issues minor have some cheap non invasive and and affortable housing compliance of course and the like well like what we said I want this to be mutually aware of the three projects for the because this is exceptionally unusual to have an affordable housing environment with no singles oh and we need and know that we know that and but we know that in aggreg right they're compliant with the minimums and in fact this development is needed to make the other application compliant oh yeah the the uh the resolution will have the same Preparatory you did all the work y y y absolutely I wanted to the bed the uck bedroom requirements are complied with uh uh on a com or aggregate among the three sites yeah yeah I just want to make sure we do that we'll be it will be in this okay umol I think there are no questions from um Mr Z's memo on the this listed 11 uh editions of the previous uh preliminary I'm sorry yeah yeah have we addressed those assume that those conditions will continue my my recommendation is that they carry over to the extent they're applicable and combine with the final I was merely pointing out that there are still things that need to be not lost in the discussion from prior and that's part of resolution yeah we carry them all forward and I understood when I asked my question and got the answer that they can comply with all of them uh was that it included that as well is the entirety of his report including for a through well can we we we should make the effort and and as you know like you've had some resolutions with 70 terms are we going to make we're going to do the reconciliation that's what you're cond absolutely the cha out of it okay yeah all right the plot from the Jets okay now any questions from the public for this one I see one [Music] 29 c o l l a r yes good to see you again and don't need to be sworn in as you know just questioning Pro nice job on making the changes that we we requested and looks good the one question I have is the the tree line just you know my proper is the one next to it the tree line that you put in there what type of trees are they is that plan yet is that along the sly line pull up our Landscaping plan so I can accurately tell you what we're closing there so the plan that was submitted shows some Landscaping between the parking and the wall wall um that Landscaping due to the need of a um guide rail for those parking spaces is not viable that area will be finished with a aone finish again there's a sixo vinyl fence so this area is screened from from your view there will be some trees um in that area again trying to zoom in here one tree we have closed up in that area is a is a magnolia tree six to8 foot in height probably some trees up in the front trying to screen that front Transformer to the to the Limit that is allowed by the power company there those would be some Evergreens 6 to8 foot in height again most of that will be screened by the the vinyl privacy P so I guess my question is just along this section here where my property looks out at the building so first taking the windows away was fantastic and I really like it creates a stark view of the property so my wind my living room windows have going to look out on to that to a certain extent so what I asked if you could put some screening I would say as probably 11t ation change between my window and the ground so some trees that would kind of break that uh break that view up R me directly at the wall right from my living room um I'll let our architect go into the Aesthetics of what that sidewall looks like um we don't have any Landscaping proposed between the wall and our building right now because you can see on our plan we've got some drainage infrastructure so that picture that the color rendering have trees in there right that that's what tricked me I guess uh yeah the if anything goes in that area it would have to be small enough to not interfere with those pipes underneath there so this is these would be some small shrubs some ground cover again it's not above the fence is there anything you can do working with my property line to put something along there again it's just that's going to be a stock view that I'm looking at um I I understand the drainage issue and that that was going to be one of my questions actually you requesting the applicant put some Landscaping in your property and you giving them a license or reason or right to do so right yeah if it if it means that I could gain some kind of blockage to just looking at the property from that just that se here because this this would have been perfect those trees if they could have been put in there and be tall enough but if it needs to come onto my property I'm with that we can work with you on after rightor go ahead landscape screening can I just get some specifics as to where it would be it'll be subject you so it would be in the area along the the southernly side of the rear building that some supplemental Landscaping may be placed between the Theos building and the adjoining neighbor building to the South uh joining lot two 2.0 2.0 2.01 another yeah yeah I know I had 20 second still two years year a half they the uh uh okay yeah lot 2011 number 12 the the uh okay and and is is there sort of a ballpark linear length here um can give you a 80 it's about 50 feet the size of the building including the paring looking at the area that we're we seem to be mutually agreeing right so the length of this building here is 50 feet I'd say we know they're the back side of the property from about there yeah yeah sure so you're talking about a 50ft section here right um again we would have to kind of see exactly how far your building is from the how do you build the there's a real retaining wall there that you're building right it's not a fill it's a real you got a real wall there you're level y it's just the uh the barrier that you're two foot high to allow us to ility to get drainage around our building that's again it's not a significant wall it's minor so that we can flatten out the area I'm you won't have any problem constructing that it's not like you need oh if I only could get onto his property no no we wouldn't need to and from what I see here I would think again we would just see how close we could get to the house without it being an impactful but you know a larger type of tree that would grow taller and kind of break up your view of the building there I think versus any type of row of Evergreens I don't think that really serves what you're talking about of that two story massing a building here where I think maybe just a larger at the time of planting Shade Tree on that side as long as it's the proximity to your actual house is appropriate that we could come up with something we could runed by Mr zabo's office from a landscaping perspective as as well as run it by you but yes I'm thinking maybe just a larger shade tree that we could put in that area that will grow and kind of fill in that space yeah just to break up the the view no again the LA of Windows for me is perfect but the optically by taking the windows out then it's it's a little bit stared so breaking it up is would be great yeah I think we could accomplish that and then as far as the drainage just full disclosure from my backyard that tree that you got one mark with the back there back corner there is so much water runs down there so just just as an FYI I'm sure you're planing for it but that's where all the water PS down to okay so just make sure you got guess that's a comment not a question sorry no and the fact that we're implementing some drainage in that area should give that the ability to yeah because if not I'll s in right now retrospectively for all that we just said if you raise your right hand again if you swear to God I refer the testimony you just gave as well as any further testimony that you may give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth thank you all right when you ra when you install this two wall run down through the wall and then you have to grade on his propery to run east west no we won't need to creade on the property we're going to take that corner of the site cut it down put the wall in the water will drain towards the wall hit the stone back behind the wall and get down through it and we'll actually give it a path to you just may have a waterfall feature seriously so what we do what we can do is increase the size maybe have some it's good information to have so that we can accurately put in some maybe additional infrastructure on that back side of the wall to little more Stone a little more you know drains back behind it to pull that water okay get it somewhere to go so one one other question then the size of half ft so does that mean you bringing the elevation up from where the parking L was so the proper is going to be higher than what I look at today no so in that back corner of where the building is is the only area where we're going to be cutting down into the grade the rest of the area up in the front of the parking um again it's a small retaining wall along here we're going to be taking the grade that they're now and lowering it okay all right close to the tracks where they're going to have to fill the tracks is on the high side your the side it's a little cut to bring it down um so really you're not even going to see the wall you're just going to see the six pence right okay we're going to have a very minor wall on up side all right and then six foot fence RS all the all the way along your entire Northern property line 6 solid bot fence I think that was it question way the pan handle I'm looking at the Google area a little bit would yes if a tree gos down which is happens now well time we have tornadoes here and everything so and you have to get equipment back there to remove the tree how are you going to do this use a chainsaw to cut it up take it out you only if you need a um any kind of heavy equipment you only have five ft of space squeeze if a tree falls down you could cut up any tree real quick with the chainsaw and take it out in small little pieces you deal with what you what you have um in order to work with but how do you get past the the corner of the building again we saw that there's 4 feet behind behind from the building to a a fence on top of a wall that's enough room for somebody from maintenance to be able to walk past it it's not an area that we're promoting as you know residents to to frequent that area but it's a wide enough area for somebody with the chainsaw to pass through there and get back to that area um to address that they'll have to put some kind of r or something or some kind gate in the wall step for a guy to go back with a chainsaw he's going to be have to go back with a wheelbarrow okay it's gonna have to be wide enough do that it's not a fun easy job but there's enough path and access for somebody to be able to do that type but we would leave ited so that there's not I need stop need a motion whether the board wants to consider hearing the next [Music] we carry what's that we need a motion to it's 10:30 and we need a motion [Music] to we extend and that we agree to hear another witness after 10:30 both items okay and and do I have a second I'll second you'll second okay all in favor I I'll oppose any you don't one don't know I carries so we extending 11:30 and we're going to hear your nextt thank you thank you our next witness is our architect good evening everyone hello can you just for the record provide your name and your business address yes uh first name is Aon kumoo business address is 632 pton a cedar Gro New Jersey and for the benefit of the board I know you've testified before this board and been accepted as an expert in architecture correct yes is your license is still current yes it is and can you just very briefly provide your education and background uh sure I The Bachelor of architecture from NGIT as uh Nicole mentioned I'm licensed architect in the state of New Jersey and I'm an associate at El architecture engineer we'd like to offer her as an expert in the field ofart we're willing to hear her testimony thank you I'll I'll be brief thank you so um that's on the screen right now is what what are we looking at we are looking at this was actually submitted as part of the application this is sheet a00 more than 10 days in advance not be Mar as a00 and what what is that floor plan this is a floor plan thank you um just a real brief this is the uh original building location before we ended up shifting it due to the uh the easement that's no longer proposed um so I'm going to go to our exhibit I don't know what number we're up4 84 this is uh building one revised layout and the date is 1124 thank you I'm going to zoom in here uh so generally speaking the building is the relatively the same shape um same number of units as before the main changes as Mr Shelly described was the water utility room here in the front which would hold the back flow preener for for the site and then there's a sprinkler closet back here which we had in previous design but uh uh was not eliminated so I wanted to make sure that was on the record um building functions the same as it did before each apartment has its own entrance uh three units on the first floor uh three on the second floor um I'm going to go to the rear building just to point out um the location of no windows along the adjacent property line uh in relationship to the floor plant we're talking about this wall here you can see there's no windows on it um and I'm just going to go to the elevation one second so we're looking at sheet say five or is this an old one no this is an old one yeah we're looking at sheet A200 uh elevation number five this is the building two rear elev that uh is adjacent to the property the adjacent property owner um so as you can see there's no windows on it but there is a change of material so it's not the elevation isn't comprised of One Singular material there's a couple different materials there's a fiber cement lab siding and a fiber cement board and mattin siding which would be two different colors so no articulation or anything but different colors or breaking it up correct um and then I will go to our colored elevations this one will be A5 yes this is A5 and this is dated 12423 so this is building one this is the front building um it's uh shows you the the color scheme proposed which is in line with the other developments in this um in this project um we're proposing stone veneer base fiber cement siding in a variety of colors um gray tones and whites standing seam metal roof and a black windows and uh we have a woodtone accents at the porch overhangs um again this is the front building and then the next PDF uh which I guess is A6 this is also dated 12423 and this is building two this is the rear building um with the same color palette um proposed as well and I believe I and same materials as previously described correct um just I know you mentioned it but how many two bedrooms and how many three bedrooms are and is it eight and four there's uh seven two bedrooms and five three bedrooms five yeah well you know thank you for because now I'm hearing what I had and before I before I think um Bard's have and mind Brook swapped units so we corrected the unit break down on those two sites but this one actually never changed Mr chairman I can take this moment since we're talking about bedrooms to address the fact that there are no bedroom one bedrooms here that's compliant with beack Section Five no it's just it's compliant on the record it's unusual no developer would develop without single bedrooms that's and that's why they put that into the ball so that's okay the real key here is to be able to use these bedrooms these units to allow the number of one bedrooms in the other unit that's what's necessary right so in order for them to comply with the bedroom distribution it'll be I thought these are like over under in terms of engineering there's like a two-bedroom on the first floor and a two-bedroom on the second floor how how do you come up with a odd distribution like how does that happen go construction wise you know it's it's like SEC two bedroom on the first floor two bedroom on the second floor three bedroom on the first floor three bedroom on the second floor so for I'll just um this is the this is the originally submitted plan so in the front here there's a two-bedroom in the middle there's a three right in the back there's a three bedroom if we go to the second I'm sorry you a little yeah yeah Lou clear please in uh in the second floor there's a two-bedroom in the front a two-bedroom in the middle and a three in the back and the main difference is the middle unit which I don't have them side by side so trying to see what's different okay so you have a three bedroom on the first floor two bedroom on the second floor that's correct in that case and then the rear building just for that building basally the rear one is and the rear one is let's see a three bedroom at the top here a two bedroom and a two-bedroom at the bottom here and the second floor these are Stacks so the second floor has a three bedroom at the top a two stack and a two stack as well so it's just that all right that one so the way you got five three bedrooms is use the middle section of the first building to be a three bedroom correct okay that makes it play Sorry Sor you can continue I questions oh I wanted to clarify um doing the angled wall earlier is this um were you talking about angling this wall yeah yeah how how could it possibly be done to give a little more clearance to create a corridor between the know the wall and I'm not expecting an answer I'm just saying well there's something and we can look and see yeah I don't say cost or whatever I just I don't know maybe you just step it a little bit I you know maybe that's the easiest instruction is just slightly step it so you keep the same for space but you get clearance a bit of clearance on side you're using the back portion is coverage your coverage cations so conceivably it should be part of the accessible part of the access back there doesn't have what access right yeah well we mentioned you'll add a St a g John does the property have to be accessable in order to be cons considered part of the total area of the lot I'm sorry but suppose I had a lot and it's got this amount of space let's say there's a clip you know and it's the back side of the lot it's just not accessible at all you just can't get to it for some reason it still counts has by by law ability has nothing to do with lot square footage all right that's what I thought interesting question uh any other questions for this witness uh professionals any questions for okay any questions for the from the public for this Witness done okay um now I can ask for comments comments extend not already provided any any members of the public any well our professional we'll we'll come back to our team here um any any uh members of the public that want to comment on this application [Music] none okay I have a few things to say um thank you very much for redoing it I um I do have what did you call it something engineering value engineering to give you a few more parking spaces um which I can just give you then you can decide as long as you're going to like you propose X number of parking spes become some kind of initi fine well not fine um I have two major uh no major additions that you need to address me personally and the board may have others uh the first is I really need you to obtain from First Energy really real estate department an official statement that they do not expect to have any RightWay act or access to your to your Panhandle or Flag Staff or whatever so I need legally that to come back to us right now there are pools there that are necessary to keep Bernardsville functioning that have to be maintained and you are your property is where the trail is that the vehicles ride on to maintain those poles so let's just find out they may say I I don't think there's an easement that's registered with Somerset County we're notoriously bad at registering easement but they may have right away historically and it's like and adverse ad possession adverse possession risk prescriptive or whatever these guys're they're each luring each other AR um so number one need that don't underestimate how hard it is to get them to talk to you go you go I go and sit in the lob yeah I I Al say you almost have to have somebody Mars sit there wait for somebody to well can you write a letter says you know your response it's okay no you really do have to contact them and and I'm just saying don't think you know oh I'll wait a couple of days to try doing this no like you you really need to do it right away the second major thing that you may or may not be aware of is that this is a FAL parking lot there have been many resolutions that have been passed that have required the applicant to purchase decals to use this parking lot as a con as a stipulation essentially for their ability to implemented that application and so what I need you to do collectively is to get to the council who's driving this and say what are you going to do and they have plenty of choices they can revoke the ordinance many of the resolutions will stand in the past that say oh well if if anything fail the typical verbage some aspect of the resolution is no longer relevant it drops but everything stays the same they need to decide if they're going to change the ordinance because we need to know how to parking relief or if we can anymore and they need to decide mostly their problem what they're doing about the decals they went out in December and people are paying money to to use these parking spaces so it needs to be I would say s talk to Jack pman um I suspect it should be a executive session of the council um but we are um and the planning board we're dependent on the guidance from the council and there's this obligation well I you can figure it all out but basically there are people that expect to park in your lot so I mean because that's where they par and they have a detail that says they can and that has to get resolved and I know they're doing a parking survey and there's a lot going on and so forth you can work it out with the town it's exactly what needs to be done we need to know that this has been resolved from the council's persp legally so I think in terms of a imposing that as a condition what could become problematic is that we don't have control over that so it's a a burrow proper transferring the prop they can't transfer the property to you correct but so as we heard previously in order to file our applications for financing we need to get through resolution compliance so we can certainly send formally send a letter to the council identifying that you can create the stipulation that you will contact the council and and and so forth you can't say you can't determine can determine what what the answer is going to be we're just going to say it's that you stipulate you will uh work with them and us here to help make sure that people understand it but it jeopardizes your legal situation and it certainly creates a problem for us um but I understand that's I believe with our guidance that would be the expectation is it would be written as a stipulation that you'll work with the council but without any guarantee on your part you can't stipulate to there being an answer your partn your partners with the council it's their problem it it's an issue to the extent it's an issue that impacts prior for approvals and I'm not saying it necessarily does because U invariably when there are board approvals over time years decades Generation stuff changes uh uh centuries uh think Dynamics change and conditions uh become impacted uh the the uh so uh the governing body entered into all these various agreements and and and ordinance changes uh knowing uh and so no no no no let's not go that far well we have to presum let's not go that okay well well here's the thing my my point simp is to we don't know if what if anything needs to be done no we don't um and what we do know is that um the government if if what if anything needs to be done is will be addressed by the governing body yes it will and this applicant to the extent it's necessary that the governing body hasn't already been uh notified by this board in essence through these proceedings or for that matter is aware of it already didn't need anybody to notify the Govern them of this um you know frankly anything more than asking this applicant to notify the governing body uh you know not just notify collaborate with their partner yes well I don't know what and that can be their definition of collaboration we've done Mr chairman I'm trying to I'm trying to they're trying to scale it back I'm try TR to make sure that the board stays with within its Authority and doesn't do anything outside its Authority or arbitres are unreasonable then we've defined what that is we've defined what that is and there will be stipulation that they will interact with the council to help resolve this and it's the council's decision it's it's not theirs they can't control it all we're saying is have and we pass stipulations like this frequently not for this topic but frequently when when when there is something that the applicant is required to get or pursue from the governing body yes this is a situation where I don't see where the applicant is required to pursue or obtain something from the governing body the governing body is aware of the issue and the and and to the extent it's there's an obligation on the governing body's part uh if there's no obligation candidly that I canulation Steve but they need to stipulate that they will at least contact the governing body about this issue yes that's what I said and work with the governing okay now I don't I don't understand the Govern ask them to work with them what are we ask them to do so they may say okay this is what we're going to do in the mean time well I have to that asking what this OPC could be asked to do in this circumstance the only Authority here is with Council not the no but what about the there been multiple approvals with conditions that they had to bypass this no no I understand understand that and that is an issue that the governing body is aware of it has to address what I am simply asking because I'm happy to ask for stipulation from this applicant as what they have to do Beyond notifying the governing body of the issue um and when you say work with them yes I want you to I I need to know what we are asking them to work with them to do and what obligation we are putting on this uh on on this applicant so that and this applicant need to know what it is you're obliging them to do so they know whether they could stipulate to it or not and if they're not going to stipulate to it I got to know uh what you're toose so I can kind advise you whether it's whether it's within your Authority or not or arbitrary on reasonable or not and you can take my advice ignore or Not Right But but we haven't gotten there yet what are you asking them to do so clear you tell them to work with them how how yeah I'm sorry give me a chance I'm sorry um when how do you determine whether that condition has been satisfied you don't care well because it's it's volunt it's a voluntary culation like we do so many other times you say could you please try to do this could you please work with an engineer could you do something and it's a stipulation it's not binding it's not like oh I've got to deliver something the situation comes to mind when we had the um uh Bernville Center we had a similar requirement that they work with the school board connection gate between the gate coming down the never could determine whether they had met that condition or not because they said we had we said we haven't done anything uh and it sort of went a limbo so what I'm suggesting is that you sort of Define what it is you want to do to do as work with it so you have an objective standard that you can apply determ whether they met that requirement and then I have a question what about what about the conditions of PR all the previous approvals that's our that's the to no they're fighting board approvals yeah I we understand that requires them to buy five spaces in the am the Clos is nullified what happens to that approval nothing nothing changes with that approval as I said before and I'll say again uh over time uh conditions uh uh may be impacted by circumstances in the evolution of development in any municipality uh so so if there is an obligation for someone to address that I think we've all understood and established and agree that obligation if there is an obligation can only be the obligation of the burrow where if we're going to ask them to stipulate or we're going to impose an obligation on them to notify them and work with them as board member Hart pointed out what does work with them mean to accomplish what when have they done their job when have they not done their job and I'm trying to in my mind we require no no you're talking about trying to solve the problem and that's the council's problem to no no notify them I think they parking variances the downtown in the downtown district were granted as a with a condition yes yes now that condition what happens to that condition for the third time I'll tell you that conditions sometimes are impacted by time and developments that occur and that's why I'm telling you I'm not telling you there's an obligation specific of the governing body to do anything but but if there is an obligation anybody to do you're not telling us that but there is an obligation of the governing body to do something if there is if there's an obligation there is tenant because theils that have parking now Jack would tell you no one ever needs that parking no one ever uses it I think that's go okay let's get to the so here's the compromise position they will notify and they will attend the town council meeting to present situation one meeting will the applicant stipulate to notifying the governing body of this issue and attending one governing body meeting to address this issue so we're happy to notify the Town Council and we're happy to attend a meeting assuming that the governing body will allow us to present this issue okay we have a stipulation I think that's but what happens to tenant a that got of that part parking variant with the condition of providing the excess parking in the AM blot I think what we're talking about here Mr to the extent there's an obligation of anybody to address that issue if it's the governing body and and the applicant has stipulated to notifying them and attending a meeting to address it what but what happens to that approval they're not notified no the applicant has stipulated they not notified the people that I didn't say that the applicant hasti ated to attend notify the governing body and attending a meeting right right to address it and and the governing body will have to determine what if any obligation they have and if they if the governing body concludes it as an obligation the governing body will have to determine what they're going to do with respect to set obligation because it impacts yes yes so does the does the VAR the parking variant become void yes no no the variance does become void the VAR void what I'm thinking of is the reverse if I have a condition that I have to use a spot or purchase a decal at out and then it's a municipal law and the buau decides toop it and eliminate it CH J that's the change that's that Mr war is talking about I think that obligation is relieved because it's no fault of that that development if and I think that was a conscious decision by the council no there are two sides to the question the first side is I don't want to pay for a decal I don't even want to do any parking you're just making me as a as you're just holding me up and making me do it as part of my resolution right that's set let's say that did you know then there's the other set of people that said I really do want some parking spaces I really do need I've got 10 employees and I really do need a couple of spaces this is the deal the council has to deal with with both sides one is just forgiveness yeah don't worry about it it's under the bridge things change there's the other side where does someone actually need the space and the council has to figure that out they' got to go to Every applicant and every decal entitlement whatever and they it's not a long list by the way it's like 12 Enterprises that have to be contact and they have to determine and say here do you still need parking space and they have to figure that out and maybe that's part of the parking study or whatever they that's a broader broader planning issue for the development of downtown I think that this is a very tactical one they just have to figure it out and everyone may say I didn't never use those sparking the Jack pigeons perceptions everybody's just buying the decals that we tell them to buy you know we're getting into this application now we're talking about zoning reement I was required as an applicant to get fourth heal but nobody's parking there there something wrong we can't address that now no no we're not we're not we're not here I respect request we move forward yes thank you uh are there any those were my two big items um I do have which I can show you um we can figure out some way how to get the Extra Spaces are there any other comments discussion on the board before well we we already asked the public for comments right was no public comment beyond our number 20 l01 uh Mr caller's public comments during the question and we'll let her summarize but right well are there any other comments maybe what we can do real quick is just confira again as we did before that the board is going to make and the relief is uh amim and final site plan approval uh I have a parking variance RSI exception the extent this board doesn't determine that it's not required because of proximity to the railroad and its affordable housing uh uh IE less parking required generally uh of 21 uh uh spaces which is 18 uh proposed uh uh that's with the electric vehicle uh credit uh in addition to that parking variance and rs exception I have the following I have internal roadway to be approximately 4T from building one correct wrong on any of this and approximately 2 ft from building two that's CH at the the the uh I know we have 8 I'm sorry 8 yeah but now that's going to change 8 8.5t versus 10t between parking and building two right to the extent that's not modified as discussed the 8.5 may increase um 3.2 feet uh between parking and uh track boundary and 3.5 feet between parking area and track boundary uh where 10 ft is required uh I have 5 ft uh between internal roadway and track boundary uh where 10 ft uh versus 10 ft required in one area or is that been eliminated it's been eliminated eliminated okay um and uh so with the parking R science exemption and a couple of parking uh uh area location uh uh exceptions that I just listed we also have Monument sign variances for size and front yard location and the building coverage of 25.5% versus is 25% given the additional uh uh uh back preventor uh enclosed area in the building and the cover down I had misspoken the the addition of the water room brought the coverage to 25.5 the addition of the covering load with the trash enclosure brought the building coverage to to 26% so each of those total 26.0% total okay 26 total each of those components is a half a percent 26% versus 25% maximum permitted building coverage um that's the those are the deviations I have does that conort with what our planner and the app team yeah what you're voting on also on um the Z 11 um I'm sorry the the Z list of 11 condition conditions follow say we're going to carry those over but obviously condition seven and nine Cann be carried for carried over you said we're going to reconcile them right yeah yeah those yeah but seven says that hand handles the your the original intent was to use that as meity space that's not valid the extent that they are valid or still relevant based on the revisions that's have been presented tonight and that Cod not defens correct correct I agre and Mr Warner we are also unsure on this property whether or not a poll is going to be required so to the extent that a utility poll oh the r exemption again if it is required as we did with the last application as we've done with many applications of late uh because we require everything to be underground U but our requirement is one thing and JCP and L's requirement is another they don't always who job I guess uh uh uh so to the extent necessary they would be asking for uh an rsis the Minimus exemption uh from the requirement to extend our Ordinance do we have do we have here this one I don't know if we have it in this one we don't so it's just an RS exemption uh uh uh from the requirement that uh uh uh utilities be underground for new construction new residential construction we going have a condition about jcpnl yeah First Energy J there has to be something significant first the community safety because basically I don't know how they're going to get to that poll you need to get the official Answer First Energy and I'm looking at the previous resolution there's a requirement that the uh they get approval from the the fire chief that would continue right yeah Carri forward yeah we'll go through each resolution and everything that was presented tonight and and add and subtract as we need to that's why with the last one uh uh and no doubt with the two this evening assuming there's an approval the second this evening uh uh we have multiple rounds of reconciliation to ensure that all all conditions uh uh carried forward uh uh they're modified as necessary they're eliminated as necessary new ones are in as as necessary although we pretty much address them all eliminate the extent you eliminate materially modify condition we have a list of those so we're not do our own reconciliation of the oh you want you want to look a table what right because there were 82 conditions right yeah 82 without the sub sheet or a document with a table that shows resolution preliminary resolution amended gr final and [Music] other double check us all on a cross reference reconciliation sure I say sure only because John said volunt but I'm probably being even more Frank and candid than I usually am so must be the hour good uh yes that's that's Rel I'll assume it's conditions and and and same as before we have six I think she should summarize right oh I'm sorry I I never catch you on thank thought you were starting to deliberate I wanted to make sure we had the belief saw so please it's amation thank you Mr worker thank you Mr chairman so as you heard this evening in our testimony we are here seeking amended preliminary and final site plan approval along with the relief that was just listed by your board attorney relating to the property at block 124 lot 118 Mount Ary for this 100% affordable housing project there are 12 units we believe that the plan that was presented this evening provided a a significant Improvement in both circulation and location of buildings um also the impact to Neighbors from that which was approved at preliminary and we're hopeful that the board agrees and we'll view this application favorably thank you thank you okay motion [Music] I so Jeff moved anden second but not on the resolution that as a grant of the all the relief sought together with the all the condition stipulated to right with a resolution between the previous with a refence ilation reconciliation between the previous well that'll be something that'll be on the obligation of Mr Z he right that's all right we pay him tonight he's the only one yeah all right is there a second yeah that was Ken okay I hear thank you okay Miss fer yes Mr Graham yes yes Mr harwitz yes Mr simar yes Mr Walden yes and Mr zazar yes motion cares thank you very much thanks for bearing with us trying to make it better that's all and you did change you changed this one a lot thank you the only the only public comment was fav oh the engineer we teach you that [Music] school ex s make sure you're still you're [Music] right [Music] idea think all right thank you