##VIDEO ID:ZHmc-1M4Edk## now you're on the audio is okay in accordance to the open public meetings act please note the following all Bernville burough planning board meetings will be held in person in the meeting Hall on the second floor of the Bernardsville Municipal Building at 166 lber Road meetings will be live streamed on YouTube with with no opportunity for public comment members of the public wishing to offer comments or ask questions will be required to attend meetings in person YouTube live stream access for all meetings is YouTube at Bernard b/ streams this link will also be available on the agenda for each meeting which is posted on the burrow website at Berard b.org and on the burough Hall public bulletin board at least 48 hours prior to the meetings notice of these changes is also in email to the Burnville news and The Courier News by posting a copy on the burough website and by filing the copy within municipal clerk all on January 16th 2024 there the intention of the board not to continue any matter past 11:00 p.m. at any regular or special meeting of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend to a later specified cut off time and same shall be announced at the opening of each meeting in addition the board does not in intend to begin a new hearing after 10 p.m. nor begin testimony of a new witness after 10:30 p.m. any hearing conducted by the board is a quasy Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be Li to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision the Quorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times roll call yes Mr chairman Mr dearco pres miss gner here miss Geller present Mr Graham here Mr harwit here Mr McQueen is absent Mr Simo here Mr Balden here and Mr zazar here you have a Mr chairman okay any comments on the meeting minutes I have a comment I the last few times that we've included the transcripts in the minutes I'll be honest I didn't read the transcripts but I did in this last one quickly look at my comments at the end of the meeting and we all recognize is that the um the transcriptionist had difficulty hearing throughout the entire process and while I think the gist of what I said was fine there's no punctuation I mean I I've read transcripts before there're not wellone transcripts and I think we need to put in the minutes that while we are we're attaching them to the minutes we have to recognize how often she had to say can you please repeat that I didn't get that I'm not sure I've never seen transcripts that have no punctuation I don't know how we do that but I just think it's a good idea that the minutes reflect that we're including the transcripts efforts I I yeah the the uh the transcripts uh if and when are needed beyond the purposes of these minutes and and the recording of these proceedings may or may not be addressed as far as the accuracy in the future I don't see a problem uh with just referencing uh uh uh something along the lines of tax well I don't know how do we want to we that not I'm not sure how we do that I'll be honest when we've attached them the last couple of times I didn't look at them but I was alarmed that I'm they're they're not they're draft they're draft trans transcripts they're transcripts but we do record so and for purposes of voting on minutes let me say that we if we're not going to read the transcripts then we should repaying voting on this um the because Minister replacing they don't have to be verba uh so frankly the transcripts are probably closer to verba uh than minutes are um but uh so it's okay to give them a you know read and uh and to understand that they generally reflect uh what occurred they're not suppos NE they're not necessary minutes to be forer okay so I think we don't need any Curative language or qualification language okay um but my my prospectively my guidance is to at least give a read if they going to substitute for minutes and if need be we can carry the minutes so that members of the board have an opportunity if they hav already to read those minutes the transcrip the saying the transcript the transcripts for this were over 300 pages long correct and so and they very hard to read and there's a better evidence of what happened at the meeting in the transcript and that's in the recording so we have as well correct yeah so you know if you want to say that the a transcript kept by one of the parties is attached that's fine but I I too was struggling this afternoon and and improving the minutes 300 Page transcript I haven't read I did go through for a while and Google search me so I could see that things that I said were correctly and I didn't but I gave up it was just too much well I I don't know that we want to get too deep into the you know the accuracy of of of those transcripts with respect to that hearing the matter remaining as far as the memorialization by way of resolution of the decision and a still period thereafter so uh that said generally transcripts even if they're not perfect uh are in my opinion more than sufficient for purposes of minutes because minutes need not be forb the general not expected to be forb uh their Essence is summon of what occur um so again if you have read give a read and uh and then vote on on the med perhaps next time we don't have a sufficient constitution of membership right now to to go wrong the point is though minutes are not supposed to be testimony I just said that yeah not they're not supposed to be Min I read the transcripts I tell you I think they're more than sufficient to C minutes okay yeah well if you're comfortable that they are I just attaching them I looked at it and I thought if you think if you think in your legal opinion we're F to vote on them as part of the minutes as a reflection generally of what happened at the meeting then I'm comfortable with that I uh that is my opinion based on what Minister required to see under the appal law and again you read uh uh fine if you didn't uh you know let us know and we can carry until you did you think so in my opinion they're an attachment they reflect the test capturing the testimony which that's fine it's an additional aspect to the minutes we have enough people to vote on the adoption of these minutes we don't necessarily need everyone here anybody perhaps doesn't might have sufficient any other issues on okay I'll take a motion I'm sorry you can't given that was August 15th and you were yes every else is eligible yes if if they're comfortable in vo for the 15th for August 15th for August 15th these are August 15 just doing August 15 any second second all in favor I any opposed is is anybody just make sure you have who's who's voting everyone is El no I mean I did everyone vote on did anyone want to abstain V on the minutes for whatever reason no okay we got we have we should have seven right yes so then another motion for anything on I don't think we have the other one yet right they're not they're still in progress okay great Communications Somerset County planning board regarding 114 clas which is not your usual everything look good County there's quite a bit of stuff in there and it's obviously been a lot of work going on with our engineer and and so we'll just be noticed of of the progress that's there right that's a post approval compliance what's being addressed there so it's of our hands for now and but yeah board is aware that particular item but if there's substantial changes they have to come back we'll see what happens not before us unless until it's before us uh is anyone here to talk about anything not related to the agenda stuff that's not planned if so come on down I don't see any hands so uh we have old business which um is the E resol resolution thank you sen correct Mr chairman as as mentioned the uh that was a monor subdivision with both variant relief pretty modest exessive floor area and deficient loot with and must have been granted unanimously uh with conditions uh including specific conditions not only all those technical conditions in the engineer and planers numos um but specific conditions for example ensuring that the existing underground oil t on the property will not be located on the newly proposed adjacent lot well not adjacent lot the newly proposed lot from the um but we did it was only two weeks ago recollection should be fresh uh we turned it around pretty quick and uh thanks to the board confessionals and applicants Council everybody uh weighed him pretty quickly uh we got the last word from applicants Council no changes request there end uh earlier today that's why it was distributed today hopefully board members feel comfortable had an opportunity to read it should have been too heavy left I so if you're ready on it you v on it Steve I had one question about the engineers letter referenced in your um resolution is the one that's in the um online in our um for our files but I what happened with the meeting though had been a subsequent letter and I think that was the letter that was discussed and that was the letter to which the applicant stipulated that he comply with the condition has it been put online that question it the question hasn't been put online but the discussion of the meeting was of the subsequent letter not of the letter that we have on onine yeah I don't have that file with be interesting that it got through us the engineer who drafted both those letters uh planner and the applic professionals but if that's the case we could hold off on that to make sure that there's nothing different between the two letters and that the subp parts the only problem there was NOS the superseding letter wasn't that was just right and that was the letter would yeah stipulated that they would I think what happened and again maybe best for us to to wait just to make sure that I think what happened was that sub subsequent letter that you're referring to basically scaled down a lot of the conditions because in the interum they had been already satisfied uh so candidly uh this broader group of conditions of improval what which that would be a subset wouldn't be problematic because it a lot of them would already be de satisfied that said if we want to be extra careful and make sure we have the right date and the scale down version of the outstanding conditions we if you're happy the way it is I'm okay with that there also a tiple on page 12 give it's two two romanet 23 I think it should be completed shall be complete oh yeah St should put that yeah well with that change and and it it's sufficient in my opinion for the board to adopt it also specifically because uh we're going to change the May 3 date uh or we're going to add to the May 3 date the subsequent uh uh uh engineering letter from Boswell Mr Brighton uh I just don't know walk hand what that date was I'm going eventure to guess who sub yeah you also could just put or any amendments or yeah yeah Ian prior to the yeah I mean I you can go tonight with that caveat immaterial uh addition we don't have to carry for that reason and okay we got a motion I'm sorry the motion okay Miss Geller yes Mr grah yes Mr hary yes Mr Balden yes and Mr zarino yes car all right pay the bills oh that was with that was what you wanted to cover right minut hold on one second my mistake my mistake I read the wrong we just got retake that roll call ready yeah yeah so Mr DeMarco yes Miss G yes Mr Graham yes Mr har yes Mr sim yes Mr Walden yes and Mr zaro yes thank you and thank you Mr for touching that yeah thank you I thought when I saw only five I was trying to okay go Pi a motion motion to pay the bills to in$ 13125 I'll second Mr DeMarco yes Miss Gardner yes M Geller yes Mr gr yes Mr hary yes Mr stim yes Mr Walden yes and Mr yes okay so we're to our public hearing uhy LLC good evening Mr chairman members of the board board professionals Simone Cali cing Law LLC on behalf of the applicant before I get started where would you like us to set up so you can use the table but that X on the ground is where you need to stand to be on the video got it always seeit your mark in theat it's back there one back okay so you want me over there and then all our wi you can use that table perfect thank you and then we get to see all of you on here wonderful we are here tonight seeking preliminary and final site plan approval to develop the property located at 50 3 moristown Road AKA us rout 202 with a restaurant use that property is currently developed with um a former Garden Center we have four Witnesses with us this evening um I intend to call somebody from the applicant entity first to discuss operations next we'll call our C civil engineer to discuss the site plan um third will be our project architect to take you through design fourth our traffic engineer to discuss flow and parking on site and lastly I will recall our project engineer is also our planner so we will finish with planning testimony to justify the bul variance relief that we require from this board um unless there's any preliminary questions of me I would like to jump right into it and call I'm going to ask for one predicate matter to be addressed first before I swear in our Alles included on board professionals uh and that I just wanted to reflect on the record that I had an opportunity to review the notice found the content to be sufficient found to be timely served in public sered by certified mail on October 8th published on October 10th both of the those dates being at least 10 days prior to this evening so the board does have jurisdiction in my opinion to hear and decide the application to we finish this evening um and with the chair commission I'll swear in all four of your five WI as well as our board professional you all stand raise right hand you swear to God to affirm that the testimony about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you all thank you Mr chairman thank you rece Mr first witness come up we also has to be on the X right just next to okay and that'll pick up everything right that's the microphone I believe Giovani to get started you can State your first and last name for the record and spell it javani g i o v a n n i p u l i thank you andan can you please um tell us your relationship to the applicant I apologize for interrup right that if you also just give us your address either home of business F okay home address 59 through a drive Mar New Jersey 0795 thank you can you please explain your relationship to the applicant entity okay I'm a member and I'm an owner and operator thank you um Mr chairman I intend to present testimony from Giani in regards to the proposed operations and programming of this project sure thank you um can you confirm that you're the recent um you you recently acquired this property is that correct that is correct about how long ago did you purchase the property approximately about a year ago and when you did so um what were your hopes and dreams with this property to get this thing moving as quickly as possible and what is this thing it's a modern European Cafe that's the real it's not really a sit down restaurant it's a modern Cafe okay give us some more detail explain to the board members and those listening um from home what is a modern European Cafe okay so you walk in we'll be serving pizza bread pastries sandwiches and coffee so you walk in you get whatever you like whatever interests you and you can either leave or there seats if you want to sit down there will be no waiters or waitresses we're not serving anym so that's why I don't classify as a sit down restaurant let grab and go that's the real model and you will have seating inside and you're also proposing outdoor seating for the patrons who intend to stay and their um Qui Sur on site is that correct that's correct um what days of the week are you going to be operating so operation hours are Monday through Sunday and it will be 800 to 9:00 p.m. and how many employees 8 a 8 to 8 am to 9:00 P p.m. sorry not 8 to 9 p.m. yeah 8 amm 8 in the morning 8 9 and how many employees do you expect to have in the beginning four so it's going to be four during the max ship so it's four right now that's what we're planning what uh do you anticipate that Max shift to be during PE hours which is in your industry probably lunchtime lunch time um so the restaurant you intend to open first as a grabbing go um what do you foresee in the future I I know there's been um discussion of a bakery bakery products yeah being provided yeah there's going to be some Pates in the beginning the goal is really a slow roll out because there's only four of us my brother's here too he's he's the main guy with books my mother's going to be involved as well it's a family business so it's going to be a slow roll out in the beginning whatever we could do we'll do and we could get more employees and if not we'll just stick to a small menu um speaking about employees and everybody being very familiar with this site where are your employees going to park okay so we inquired about the Bernardsville train station parking lot and they said they have 200 spots allocated for 2024 and as of right now there's 50 spots being rented whatever the price is for each spot so so your intent is that your employees are parking off site correct is that correct it's correct and you're doing everything in your power to locate those four additional parking spaces off site so that you can have your parking lot designated for your patrons is that correct correct um Mr chairman I really have no uh further direct questions for this witness is there something is there another is there a comparable that would be to this in the area yes maybe yeah maybe [Music] priscillas to speak I was thinking Coco but I don't want to put any words in anyone's mouth yeah could be as well yeah they're more of a bakery door but the same set it's like yeah the same concept this your first restaurant yeah myself yeah but my father my mother they've been involved in the restaurant business their whole life question Yeah question you um indicated that you would be using the train station for your employees for your clients your customers for to be in and out I'm assuming that's what you said but really wouldn't be a sit down restaurant as we know it where how many how many parking spaces are you predicting you'll need by next witness we'll be able to to get more into specifics par Demand on the shair did you want to go to the public questions of each witness or wait for a few Witnesses I guess we have five all together four people making up five minutes let's just wait this we have yeah let's let's we'll take um public we'll take public comment after we heard the public questions sorry and then after public questions we'll take public Mr chairman our next witness is our project um a civil engineer M can you please state your name for the record also spell it please sure uh Michael Ro last spelled Ro of Roth Engineering LLC I'm the owner of Roth Engineering I have design and Management number projects stages like be discussed tonight I graduated the bachelor degree of science um in civil um from NGIT licensed um um um engineering plan under the state of New Jersey both my licenses are in a good standing I've appeared before several venue Sports throughout the state however it's my first appearance before this sport present we'll accept them and just for clarification since I know he's coming back as a planner later um you're asking that to be accepted by the board as an expert in both areas now the sav of trouble yes okay Mr chair accepting both [Music] capacities engine andal planning cor Ying of the qualifications Mike you submitted the plans that were prepared as part of this application is that correct correct um you had the opportunity to review the board professional reports that have issued is that correct yes I have thank you um can you please uh please discuss your site plan let's start with the existing conditions so discuss for discussing existing conditions I'm going to refer to an exhibit War mark this 81 please thank you as you know just when you're when you're ready just give us a brief title summary of what it is sure I don't know if there a last RIS State I guess not looks like a rendering correct yeah um existing conditions Arrow map is the name of the rendering uh Mark the day one it's dated October 10th 2024 I have hand Bo a one and A2 so the okay are you going to is the next one going to be 82 or going to call this page A1 um I like to call it A1 and2 okay then then we're only looking at the first page A1 for now so I'll start with describing A1 um existing conditions Arrow math dated October 10 2004 you see here is a an arrow map in the background uh that's from March 24th 2024 uh subject property is located at 53 moristown Road property has an area of approximately 0.24 acres and is located in the bur's downtown core commercial Zone District the property has Frontage on Morris road to the north which is njd rout 202 and is adjacent to the railway property to the South uh the property contains a um um existing building which is currently vacant and formly used as a garden center the existing building is set back 11.8 ft from the mortown road front property line which is a previous formance condition as a minimum of 2 ft and maximum of 5 ft is required the building is set back 22.5 ft from the East side property line and 79 ft from the West Side property line which complies with the minimum Z foot requirement uh now the rear setback the building the setb back 1.3 ft from the rear property line which is also pre-existing not in conforming condition as a minimum of 5 FTS required the property contains a two-way driveway with access to a parking area on the east side of the building uh there's a second curb opening uh that is in the middle of the property roughly centered on the building and then a third curb opening that's on the uh west side of the building that was forly gave access to a outdoor Garden area site contains areas of gravel cers that approach beyond the property line to the rear of the building and lastly the proper has a um ovious coverage of 98.4% which is a pre-existing IR performing condition as the maximum in Pur coverage allowed is 90% so now I'm going to flip to A2 which is the second AG the hand out again stud this is entitle plan rendering than also dated October 10th 2024 what you see here is the same Arrow map in the background the proposed improvements are rendered in color uh the project proposed is to um uh renovate the existing building for the use as a cafe as described by the applicant which is permitted in the downtown Corone District uh the property does not propose any changes to the building's footprint except for on the rear part of the building uh we're expanding the dorw which is actually a vertical expansion within the rear yard setb therefore bearing is being requested further testimony by the architect will be provided for that uh next regarding site improvements the project is proposing parking lots on the east and west sides of the building in a new patio area in front of the building the East parking lot provides for four spaces and the dumpster enclosure while the west parking lot provides for eight spaces including one handicap space uh the project proposes a total of 12 parment spaces where a minimum of 1900 required based on the uh bur's ordinance therefore a variance is being requested uh we have a a few variances and uh design waivers related to parking and loading that I'll run through briefly uh the location of the parking as the proposed parking lots are located at the sides we parking is Park actually be behind the building for the ordinance uh the parking set back to the property line um as the the East parking lot is set back 2.6 ft from the side Lot line the west parking line is set back 3.6 ft to the rear lot line or minimum 5 ft required the parking access as two driveway curve cuts are proposed where Maxim one's permitted no loading spaces proposed where on required the proposed withd of a sidewalk is 5T or 8 ft is required and the parking lots are not screen or screening is required so we do have a few variants that are related to parking I'll come back later for the planning testimony to support those variances um we have a variance related to signage the project proposes a sign M on the roof it's 2 feet Pi by 8 y has an area of 16 square ft the sign uh uh conforms to the ordinance except that it's proposed on the roof and therefore requires variance um we have a couple other variances uh the project proposes a AC unit 0.2 ft from the property line and Generator one foot from the rear property line which does sorry how much the AC 0.2 and that does not comply with the 5ot re setback therefore variances are requested the track enclosures proposed three 3.3 ft from the side property line and 2.6 ft from the new property line which does not comply with the 5T side and new setback again for variance is requested uh next regarding Landscaping the project proposes new plant themes as you can see rendered in Green in the non Hardscape areas the project also proposes new lighting to provide adequate light levels or within the parking lot and pedestrian areas uh by the new building and full lights and due to the closeness of the lights the property line in order to adequately uh and safely light the parking lot of Varan is is requested as the light levels uh exceed the maximum 0.5 C reading at the property lines and lastly regarding storm water management uh the project is proposing storm water drial for the roof runoff which is shown on the plans and um although not shown on the plans uh we will be taking the park not run off to the drial which which will be collected in inlets and H to the drial and that's in order to comply with the um um Engineers to uh review comments which I willou on briefly so in summary for the storm water management the project proposes a a a decrease in coverage uh we went from 98% going down to 89.2 uh which which actually complies with the ordance it complies the maximum requirement 90% so you're eliminating an existing divisions that is correct yeah and although it doesn't count towards our numbers as you can see from flipping from A1 to A2 there's a lot of imperious that was beyond the property line that were going to um um restore and make a cur surface strength deficiency change that deviation excuse inside this spok an existing deviation is been eliminated cor that's great and uh we have reviewed the board professionals comments I'll start with the board Engineers review letter last Revis August 28 2024 I'm going to start on Section B section A is just the general comments and points on the project so section D comments 1 through four will comply comment number five uh the hour of operation Prov about the applicant and we're proposing to have the two Building Man lights and po man light on the west side of the building to be an a motion sensor um instead of being dimmed I believe that comment regarding the dimming was potentially if there was any off offsite lighting um so instead of doing that we're going to have some select lights on a motion sensor I apologize again the the you're which one number five right so you cover you're complying with the one4 and landscap plan okay which engineering letter are we talking about the August letter B well it's August 28th I think said 28 correct yeah we want to be careful we had an issue last and there were a couple of B this is the most recent I'm keeping track uh next regarding com number six the proposed dumpster um is a um uh masing enclosure on the back and sides has Cedar slots in the front for access the dumpster containers will have lids uh to control the crash um however uh it will not have the the roof that's being requested by the Ford engineer um and lastly comment seven will comply with the drainage comments uh we agree those are great enhancements improvements to the site and see we comp with the remaining comments other section can you go through the the dumpster because you mentioned there were some issues um compliance issues and why why can't you meet the standards on the dumpster placement so we have we're proposing it's not existing condition right the dump it's a new dumpster a new dumpster okay fine um so we comply with with all the um components of the dumpster as recommended by the board engineer except for the fact of of the roof and the reason for that is the app and I had um talked to the um the the trash pickup company and there were concerns about you know having a d having a front end loader U you know pick up that dumpster and potentially damage the the roof um to kind of and and I I get to sense that the reason for the roof is to not see any Trash um and what we are going to propose is is Lids um on those dumpster enclosure so there would be no overflow U the height of the enclosure is is is high where I don't believe you would see any Trash so that that's our that's our reasoning for not for not proposing the uh the roof so the trash pickup is expecting the space you've got designated there in the hash marks they're saying back in and grab the D open the doors to the to the area and grab the dumpster right it would be uh it would be front end loader uh as you mentioned would approach the enclosure open the doors um you know Fork the dumpster container and yeah it's not going to work have you looked at it it's not going to what what El can't take a front end uh truck with the forks on it and get it to the pick up those dumpsters unless you roll the dumpsters out are you rolling the dumpsters out because in one sense you're saying oh we we haven't got into the detail size of the dumpsters um I suppose they could be on Wheels and rolled you know right you know to more feasible area so those parking spaces would need to be empty correct yeah I'm sorry so the I probably should have mentioned that testimony the um the the tra pickup will be done off hours so those spaces won't be occupied so they'll have you know they'll basically be able to use the whole parking area to pull in and access that that enclosure okay well that that helps did you for make that work with the fs right so based upon the tightness of the parking lot it it can't make a movement where it would back up and turn around at the park L would have to it would have to slightly onto onto the road and then continue down you can't turn in that space based on the uh condition and the tightness uh a front and loader can't make that turn move on well then you're going to need to on the this is on the west this is on the East lot you see where you have the patio and the Shrubbery there you're going to have to allow for a k turn I would guess I mean you're going to need to you're not going to back on the 202 out of your property so you need to figure out how how to have them make a turn either with a different truck or figure it out one of the reasons why I was brightly brought up the roof thing uh was not so much visibility but also for animals um and that was why had mentioned also screening of mesh has actually deos the entire um Refuge area because we understand that it's a food establishment so waste from food items will be um temporarily stored in that location throughout the week uh and that's one of the reasons why you know we had considered uh you know Roofing uh you know for some kind of animals that would get into that area and that's the concern well in regards to your concerns the was right yeah sorry sorry I just wanted to clarify on this um our we management guy offered because of the concern stral he offered a think it's bear proof lids they're metal lids and they're bare so no animals are getting inside of it that's what he said we talk to thems are smart like you know like that so that's that was mainly one of the concerns there and then also the proximity to the building next door um so some kind of barrier as well consider because of that due to the new Zoning for the whole area now you know the next door lot also has potential of becoming residential that was also our thought too you know whether or not that was going to cause issues you know just in the general area it is not fully protected we we don't want to restrict your um you know your operations at all but it's just a matter you know in general so counselor you asked your client how often you thought the crash would be picked up was that a daily te or he said it daily so that would be and your operation so I seven days a week as right now it's going to be every day if anything changes if there's a day that we're not as busy I got so I'm just trying to I think there's some concern be off hours give me a second I'm there's a I think there's a concern from my our perspective of an accumulation of of Gage right so one of the conditions you may wind up getting if you get that far is that every day of an operation there will have to be pick up right so you're going to have to when you come to get whatever Co you're going to have to show proof that you may do that we didn't get there yet but that might be a way of resolve at least some of my concerns about abundance of garbage at sits were too long you understand all right I just a suggestion you know I know you're constrained on parking and seeking relief I'd suggest um looking at in that easterly parking lot I'd suggest um on the other side of where the parking spaces are putting an ADA space there having I have access to the front door and uh and that'll be a turnaround that'll that'll give your K capability and it'll also give you an extra space because you can then not provide an ADA space and the uh West lot that just a thought I'm sorry create essentially an ada8 size parking space right so the space plus the Ada so flip your Ada from the right side to the left side so there be three spaces take the Ada spot cut into your sidewalk in the front and have five spots there and do still back and then you'll get your K turn dumpster would dumpster stays where it is but now there's if that works where does that change that what that gives you is ability to to pick up your trash without right I mean what does that give you that gives you the ability to pick up your trash because you can't pick it up and back out on the two2 so you need to be able to turn within that lot so if you put the Ada a full set of eight you can even put three SPAC well you can figure out what it is but you put your Ada space right now where those shrubberies are in the front you know you expand your East lot to include an ADA space where you currently have patio oh on the patio side okay yes so that's where you put your Ada space once again just suggestions and um you have to obviously have the r you know whatever the access is I think you got a front door which could be used for Ada um and then you recover your Ada space in the uh because it's a fulls sizee uh space you willover it on your um as a regular parking space on your U West L the net is you'll gain a space instead of 13 you'll have 14 spaces at least you you may be able I I don't think you can fit more then the Ada space into that Pao we just solve yeah we appreciate the comment andh staring next witness I'll discuss it yeah that's all I can suggest there may be a door there there is not the main entrance door is uh on the patio it's roughly Cent and most people may be going through that back door but I don't know what was that was actually a separate question what was your intent for the use of each of the doors just just to say on the record yeah I'm going to defer that to the architect okay that's fine uh so going back to the review letter um I believe that concludes the board Engineers yeah once again just don't I don't believe the enclosure can be that should be that close to the property lines but that's the garbage enclosure the garbage en closure a side 2.6 yes we have that's been to the for the cuts correct yeah okay great because you have three now you mentioned you have three now two they're happier that's been submitted we hav any comments or anything just okay and then also in the rear have you reached out to Transit because that's all so you'll need to reach out to them about any work you do within there just for permission to clean up that is there going to be seating on the patio yes seasonal out door SE many seats the current plan propos eight outdoor seasonal seats so the planner will go through that because you'll be you'll have to eliminate eight seats inside when you do that maybe the current proposal is that they were um that they would total there's 36 indoor seats that required 12 spaces plus the eight outdoor seats um you can't have outdoor seats without parking for them yes so the provision that we de we do with restaurants and cafes is okay if you want to have outdoor seating then you actually have to shut down the equivalent number of indoor seats I think what they requested was they based their seating parking on the full number of indoor and outdoor seats oh it's based on and came out in 19 and they asked for a variance for 12 13 the seven is adult so they're looking for variance for respot correct yeah and what you should be asking for is you should be asking you should have the parking match which is now 14 potentially match what your seating is and then when you have seasonal seating you just close down some of the seats that are inside and you do outside that's the standard that's one way to solve it that's not the only way to solve it the other way to solve it is the way that the council has proposed where you give a variant and you include hard for the bar well that's why the planet is here to hear about whether there's a hardship that the solu same the um is is okay with that condition where the you know we would be limited to the um 36 seats total right and eight you can put them anywhere you want yeah it just makes it in a sense it makes it easier in our some am I correct then and understanding it sound as if we might be getting close to actually having 14 parking spaces and maybe only needing now 14 parking spaces one of the things that they propose is that the requirement is one um space for every three seats plus one space for each employee so what they were proposing was that they would find four spots for employees off site which will reduce the actual requirement to 15 yeah I'm going that right to 15 so with this additional spot so down to few spots but I think they I think they just said they would limit the total seting to 36 yeah so then that's 12 spaces and it's all going to be a question of the map the key is how close can we get it so there's it's right that you no I I got that but my point is I think what they just agreed to was a total of 36 seats whether that's a combination of indoor and outdoor that means they need 12 spaces that would cover the seating and I think the request is they're looking for a condition that if they provide proof that they have a rental agreement for off-site parking for whatever the number of employees are whether it's four 10 or 12 that the employees will not park on property that they will part off and is that the variant we will give provided that no employees BK there exactly perfect is that a summary yes very well said that's but we got that's 12 uh and did you get how many spaces did we get up to on site did we add one well the the current plan show 12 space is proposed I haven't looked into the modified design just quite yet but uh based on the current design 12 are proposed and 12 are required for the customer seating with um with the condition that employees par site and then there's the possibility I'm hearing it correctly that we may actually have 13 spaces provided if and when you consider that's he's going to need going to need to be able to make the term and one employe open to looking in shared parking in any other locations you know by I believe [Music] we yes we have another suggestion suggest um on the west side of the lot um there is a lot that I believe is utilized by the mayis tire which is several properties down um but that's an auxiliary lot for them that could be a potential option for your team to explore as Shar parking option my understand just an idea app ask probably not as cheap as as the timeline it's certainly a lot [Music] closer okay going back to the review letters um sure I'm going to touch upon the planners review dated August 23rd 2024 I'm to section five I'm just touching upon the comments that requireed testimony most of them um you know our statements um identify the variances excuse me can I just I know you're but the microphones are this way so if you could just project this way you may not get picked up well on certainly I apologize that's okay more um so section five comment number four we talked about the lighting where we do I require um a variance seeing the light level property line and the lights be turned about 30 minutes after closing with select life Automotion sensor thate don't that being previously identifi the average intensity is the average maximum we exceeding yeah that I haven't the average the Max and you're going to be at it appears the Max on the um East Side property line is 1.3 and again that's just you know we're lighting the parking lot the parking area is almost on the property line so it's a it's a condition is this the average cand or is this Max foot candle in any location on the site Max foot candle at the property at the property two different you're open till 9 pm so all that should be there the security lighting so what's what's going on I'm sorry you're lighting after 9:00 p.m yeah you're you're closed corre the lighting the lights turned off 30 minutes after closed B and therefore if you have any light at all it's security lights correct this would be much lower and whatever motion sensors or whatever but lower intensity and so what you're saying is that from an engineering perspective they're they're not complying what lights are on they're AT3 at okay that exceeds the5 Max when they're on not when they're with the security lights are on no so the trespass on the property line is exceeding what's Allowed by the ordinance in the winter from 5:00 p.m. to 9: so that that the the reason why the Orin set up like that is so that the trass from one site does not impact Lighting on other site and normally we look at lighting that's directed in the other direction it's down it's down you know so that there's cut off on on the property line there's cut off there's no light shutting at all so what is it about these I'm sorry it's probably one of these sheets what is it about your lighting choice that would have any over onto the other property yeah it's it's it's a factor of the of the light um the East light where it has a wide spray spray the parking uh the way our lighting grid is set up um you know there's there's some minor spillage over the property line once you get slightly off the property line it it goes to zero um but when you have parking that's only a few feet off the property line um I'm sorry it's on there but where's where's the light the pole for the light is it on your property line basically or a couple it's on our property correct well no close to the East Boundary East property yeah between the curve between probably a foot or two off the property you move it to the other side of the aisle uh we looked at that however I'd have to I have to would I would have to reanalyze the lighting to see if we would still get adequate light levels you know we want to maintain 05 foot candles for safety purposes um ironically that's the maximum a lot of the property line um so when we designed light to um exceed that standard for Public Safety that's how we ended up with this uh uh condition where over the the lighting the maximum lighting is it an existing that's new so you have some ability that's correct and what's the height of the pole 15 ft you tell me that you might have some flexibility with theight of the PO that might the location in the height call correctly that's me that's me that has an impact right on the and Sh in the past we've had people on the other side of the railroad complain about not in this location but in other locations along the railroad that they see the light source would the light source be visible the lights proposed Are all uh downward facing um 15 ft High how does that compared to the other side of the railroad property the residential on the other side of the railroad the light levels quickly um ba off to zero foot candles so there'll be no impacts for those neighbors but can you see the source of the lighting it's the bulb shielded that's all yeah it's it's a downward and yes and the houses on the other side I think the answer is yes the houses on the other side higher elevation than this property in other words they would be looking down at the downfacing light you know not up at the downfacing light if we all play photography didn't go that far unfortunately [Music] [Music] right you don't have to answer that now just keep that in mind that's and you were on a for lighting [Music] number six we talked about tra enclosure seven testified that thecate site will be removed and we'll see permission from uh the railway property we do that number eight the proposed fence of the re lock line is 4T High solid M fence and then uh moving on to section six sorry location issue um section six the the hour of operation for comment one comment two the AR testimony three and four we ction loading and then lastly section 70 um plan testimony will be proved VAR sorry we bre section six number four as it relates to delivery service um and where the commercial vehicles that are going to be delivering products you can speak for that or not yes did you hear her question rep sure it's um we're asking you to confirm delivery like if delivery service is proposed um obviously I would assume but you have to include like the number of vehicles in that response um just so we have a better understanding of when they're coming maybe or what the size of the vehicle that's dropping off any we're have District new deliveries they stated it's a 28t truck and obviously deliveries are going to happen not operation so just like and for flower delivery a small van or a small box truck off hours as well that's really it it's just we have two Distributors for flowers for food you're going to have food deliveries before 7 in the morning and after 9:00 at night means like um product coming to them to use well there our delivery hour limitations yeah so I just would suggest we just double check the ordinance okay I me that's your point was the so you'll have all your deliveries early early in the morning because you're you're going to out of there by 9:30 at no lights on and they don't make deliveries the concern is that your property abuts estate Highway there's no conceivable way that a truck can stop and blck the road and deliv right so they can't do that definitely during your operation hours no it's going to be off hours corre but you need to say that that the deliveries will only be uh in the off hours pre in the morning right not at night because that brings other things into play and then you can really strive that you do not have a 28 foot truck ever and that there really should all be box trucks that can either pull into an empty parking lot and figure out how to maneuver and deliver so it doesn't disrupt any traffic any the way that make sense yeah no I got okay is there any ATT for your business to do deliveries to actually proceed and like have our own trust deliver I don't think if anything we're going to do anything online obviously there's other part but not us well I guess the key is that we would expect that yeah you will have like door Dash and other people stopping by and picking up so there'll be but they'll be essentially instead of people showing up in that car they're going to be someone showing up in a a van um clarification purposes when we say deliveries are non-operational hours but in the morning non-operational hours not the evening not operational hours um are we envisioning how early in those morning operational hours at a certain point they become even operational hours are we envisioning what limitting those hours to a range the already limits the the ORD already limits to the hours s they are I'm sorry I'm sorry excuse the ordinance already has a time limit on deliveries we dealt with that with the Dunkin Donuts when they um want to put their saying it's compliance with the ordinance yeah they need to look up the obviously okay John would be favor pulling it up um you have more in that memo right here we just went back to six right is there yeah I think so the applicant just to to be clear on the record the applicant understands that it's it's Supply deliveries must comply with the ordinance right um the applicant advised that they'll be requesting the first delivery spot for that morning what time that might be I'm not sure but we will have to comply with the Cod y just Logistics is there more in that letter because I have a somewhat related question i' I've um provided the testimony be answering questions those were all of John's rest variances in nonconform you do have a few additional variances that you and the set back for the pre accessory stru right those are number 11 has the uh un generator that yeah I'll cover we need to cover the AC UNS when the architect it's up talk about the entrances has there been any discussion so my question is you have a neighbor to your East who's on your property line and his his building's real close to it have you talked at all about access to his property for maintenance etc etc is there enough setback are you are you proposing any kind of fening there or has there been any discussion in terms of the shared boundary and clearances uh so the property line I'm sorry the curb line is on our property um it's going to operate almost as it does today that that area was formally parking going be parking for the project um and you're not putting fence up or anything like that we are not and it's just yeah I just want to be sure that when you get these dense you know close properties that that people can mutually perform maintenance appropriately that's all so the masonry wall is not it's not on it's on which one right yes all there that falls on part of it falls on our property just the are you wall on the east side of the correct and then so this curve section here I'll try the Bas on your property their property and there's no changes it's a condition that's today there today that are continue any questions from public question I may have one or two I'm sorry Mr chairman I was is there a way to make the sidewalk bigger so it's not just 5T front so could be be 8T so the the public sidewalk um the ordinance requires a and I'll touch upon this in the plan Sy we're proposing five and that's in order to match match the streetcape in the area I know but if the long-term goal as that continues to develop is that the next person next year then shows up and says well he did five well I I doing eight and since you have two drivers at the end make me happy if they were the objection there there's a strange provision on that 5 foot driveway say it says it's 5 feet but if it's not there has to be enough space alongside the people who get by and you know looking at the picture that condition is met so I don't know how to read that need a requirement I mean I just see that he's got open Greenway there there's nothing preventing him from especially in the lips of the driveway to establishing an 8ot pathway in an area where scho that nature we may not even have to P it that's my point yeah you might just colorize it in in in the patio area and not and put those chair but it would make me happy okay that would actually eliminate a varing so that you have the space yeah I get the desire to match next door but you can leave the way so the key is if they if they Reserve an area of the green area 3T Reserve next to the five then they're complying what you just said yeah don't put a Shrubbery next to the sidewalk in other words un sidewalk and you remove the VAR behind behind just don't Trigg your right away no I know making sure is it architect or you in terms of snow removal sorry we're snow removal so when there's a foot of snow on the lot [Music] overnight what where you putting which no for the um for the East Park lot it would it would probably have to go temporarily in you know the striped area under some sort of exem storm where were they open potentially would be taken off site uh there's really no green space to put it in on the East lot for the West lot there is opportunity on the western crocodine push snow beyond the parking so from an operational perspective just anticipate that there could be snow I mean it's warming up but and just anticipate what are you going to do with it and there may be something in the final plans or whatever where you can say yeah here's here's a spot that we can push the snow into you can correct just have a plan you're not using the patio in the winter when it snows right from an engine perspective it's Fe yes is there anything I to say anything's feasible is there anything preventing them from using the green area between the Pao and the sidewalk just snow or is supposed toing the patio just think about it that's all just have a plan you know it's potentially happen so you can figure it out in advance and maybe not crush a plant or something I don't ready for the next you're okay okay our third wi project arit u l a SS a s r a l um and my office is at 9 wh Road in wh I've been licensed for 24 years and most recently psylvia past two years a member of National Council architectural board okay I didn't hear LIC [Music] standard you somebody Superion the submitted ination yes I prepar thank you um can you please take the board for [Music] your am I correct these are the plans unmarked on the col Etc as were submitted for the board as that's the last day yes what was that date July yeah that's last okay I see y it's Z1 we don't need to mark this is an exhib reference sheet number when you're refr sheet sheet in run um exting building Garden Center to Beed into this um Cafe um it falls under the use group of B business um for a restaurant that's under 50 occupants so it's still a business use not an assembly use uh as a um a restaurant with a table Service uh would be um the U I think there were some questions about the number of exits and we're working with the existing exits um from the front entrance and the um west parking area those three exits are to remain and we're adding additional exit over on the east Park Side uh for um directly off of the proposed kitchen of the restaurant so there'll be three exits total where two minimum are required uh the maximum distance to any exit from anyone in the building would be 62 ft up to 200 well free is it one on the each side only for employees um yeah employ obviously be for anyone West would be for anyone as well the West would be for anyone and the front North would be for anyone so there's two for anyone and and three in general so so the public does not have to go through the kitchen that out but so uh sufficient exits are provided per code um uh let's walk you through the building um front entrance leads to General just just a minute just because we talked we're talking exits and I just want to make a comment the uh it's not a negative when it's just a suggestion when it's winter and someone comes through that front exit it'll be pretty brutal in terms of weather and wind and so forth and most restaurants in the town have figured out a way to shelter their exits either permanently or or Seas such that your anyone sitting does just get blown away when that door opens up and the air comes in so think about winter cold bitter winter and and the way you're handling the door because they're just on there's no Portico there's no nothing here now and it could be a temporary thing just plan where the wise just plan for what what it's going to be like opening these doors in the winter that's all yeah this is fine in the summer and right this will be a difficult situ look at Solutions such as a dowra type [Music] of just figure it out plan that's and then I'll say the other thing about entrances and exits I would imagine it's a cafe so it's there's sort of an expectation that'll be kind of transient in a way but if you do have a lot of takeout showing up and going through that door it's not going to be com for the people sitting near that door with that much traffic also people picking up and delivery services they hang out and they don't hang out outside they hang out inside and so this is the first time you know you're getting started it's like think about people think about how you're going to handle takeout and where the where the people are going to wait and stand and um in regard to your customers as and so forth so just that's kind of the way you handle doors and where they might go to the counter and what your traffic flow is really think about your com combined customer load which is some are very delivery oriented and that's that traffic but then also think about the people that are just sitting and how it impacts them so anyway now you can okay go on right um so yeah we uh the from the main entrance facing Moran Road uh ENT you would enter in the dining area uh and it's Transit type dining know that's you would any small establishment um then You' approach the customer service area uh where there will be the piz and the bakery portion of the um operation um and then [Music] be sorry uh continents and and the grav refrigerator off to the right there um and and of course the second exit uh which may be you know a primary answer for those who are parking um in the western parking lot where's the cash register on this yeah what do you anticipate the right yeah right at the um the corner the closest to the door um there's there's a bend the bend on the on the service area between Pizza prep and okay I just was it clear but that's sounds good you walk in and there's the um the point of service um and yes the pizza oven would be there the St the area the pizza oven how is the pizza oven heated that's electric it's all electric yeah it's just one oven sorry we got to testimony about electricity and anything else I do your name and address ant the owner operator to 59y so the it's going to be one oven in the front and it's going to be a then there's going to be like a pastry oven in the back that has to be gas I can't get electric right now and there's going to be gas two gas fryers a possible boilers gas and the stove's gas okay I where I was going was it's not a wood part p no no no because then the question would be where do you want to store your wood no it's Elric that's that was my the method behind my question so okay than thanks no problem sorry sure and we're like that well talking about the kitchen you know type of operations and yes the the remainder of the building toward the left or or the E side uh would be the kitchen operations um uh which currently a garage will be converted into uh the the primary uh kitchen space um and that will have its own um entrance exit primarily used Bylo do you anticipate this as it's been designed for customers to be busting their own stuff like you know they come in they grab something it's on a tray and they sit down and then they take it and put it somewhere where where where do they take it it's not is it clear on this and I'm just missing it where where do they take their whatever the is the condim so that's what the trashes if there was trays they would put it over there okay they would pick up their food on the basically where it says the bakery work area for occupants there the big big counter and that's where basically the cash register and pick up a big I just that makes sense but just wasn't there are you done with the interior uh the interior and now refer to the exterior soit just flip it around more Curious BR attention to [Music] the exor elevations are to remain uh pretty much as the building is today except for the replacement of C some windows um entr is where is not going to change it's the same location uh theorm closing the D exting remain um and um the only change the exterior structural in any way a slight raising of the roof uh in the kitchen portion which you can't see from the front it's towards the rear if if you look at the left elevation drawing the Tre the the drawing the upper right um and you'll see the DOR ref framing picture that's just to get some head height because the uh pitchen floor will be installed about 18 to 20 in above the existing garage slab uh so with that floor coming up we need a little more head height and that would be the extent of the exterior alterations to the building otherwise it's line is staying the same line is staying the same the ridge is same yeah there's no change P the building currently has some very interesting window in the front are they not going to be preserved um they're going to be replaced um so we're going with some trying to get more glass more light into the space you know because it's a the windows AR shape and the uh there is some some uh yeah some of that art Uh current uh uh form uh will will change uh as installation of these new windows most of the the roof line is supported by rafter visible rafter right right now is that going to disappear as well yes so that arbor trellis look is going to go away and um just simplify uh existing structure that's there so basically don't have much gladder appearance than you do current well it's going to be a little uh uh we want to do more with the trim uh then uh so have more pronounced trim work as you see um uh um under there's a sofit uh trim board directly underneath the overtime to frame [Music] the the exterior elevations so we're going for narrow exposure sighting and wi train just a more cleaner uh uh a cleaner appearance more less um I I don't use a bad term or negative term but just not as busy it's yeah it's a little busy right now and we're trying to it has a certain shape to that's not changing busy in Europe we're Charming in mine one person's busy another person's Charming but we're not trying to um radic it's not I don't think it's a radical departure it is the basic form that everybody's been accustomed to you're not changing the footprint you still have those two out in the front yes door exactly yeah the angled entrance will remain have you done a transparency comparison transparency well there rules and transparency and I don't know if you could I know this is this is an existing building right and if it were new you would have to satisfy the transparency requirements of the Zone the magude window windows ifre what the ordinance says is that even for a building are for noning me if you change the frontage of the building Frontage must comply with the new ordinance which will require compliance with the transparency and the articulation requirements and and your application did not show that right you said this is for non-conforming use even for a building as a non existing non-conforming conforming use if you change the frontage of the building the changed Frontage has to conform to the new zoning SC transparency percentages but the question is is he changing the front by hiding the scks and cleaning it up the window the windows here I drove by look at the windows here are different they're clearly different from what's what's there so there'll be a change uh there will be a change in the way the building appears from the not the the basic um silhouette of the building isn't is not going to change the sh but the windows are going to change um garage the the that trellis looking first floor is going to change it won't be recognizable immediately but I say that the Tris was more of a gesture towards the garden center and I and so we're not a garden center anymore so um and we also removing you know large garage doors and and now replacing them with it's kind of going to a more resal the problem is you may be triggering something or trying you're triggering something and we're trying to to make you don't trigger I mean so can confirm if the transparency requirement is met here or or it may be it's pretty he it's pretty hefty the transparency requirment it's assuming like a retail you know establishment as a condition of the um resolution we would comply with the transparency don't say if don't say that Council May at the end decide to adjust the variance request to also seek one because that wasn't a known quantity when she did her notice right and we will find that still compliance based upon where G and you may seek further variance Rel to that because we may like the way the building look and not necessarily want that shock and or of all GL and like the other the other variances that arose during the course of the hearing that one may well be covered by the cat provision and the notice and hence the board would continue to have jurisdiction over it and potentially it that's what's being it's it's worth understanding like what Jeff just was explaining what the reality could be we need to know that and it's worth you looking at the existing transparency it's there making sure above all you don't reduce the transparency which I I'm just saying part of it you could be even improving the transparency but think about the door you know whatever ever just think about it and know your numbers understand the the code and then we don't want we need to know whether or not you're triggering something we Grant you then you may need to secretly the definition ofcy is percentage of glass area to would go for articulation too which same concept although looking at your design and don't going to have a problem problem the articulation yeah so I mean you called out that the garages which are now solid right you replaceing with window cor so you are increasing it which is a good thing but you may not get to the level you need but we're going to need to hear more on that maybe right when you come back as to what that increase is so we can weigh that okay understood there there's also requirements about what the windows have to look like and you you you are subject to those requirements for the part of the building that's in the front FR [Music] s if it's TR if it's TR whatever the whole point is It's homework okay um other exterior um elements are um well where the garage used doors used to be will be set of access stairs to that engine um and um then there's the proposed sign on the roof which is meur 8 by and um this is to be externally lit as opposed to an internally lit one um it's comparable to some of the businesses in the area like the auto body shop next door and the veterinary veter offices where the lights are shining Illuminating outside I have a question about the sign if you it looks from your drawing that you could drop that sign down under the E and still have room for it you're become a wall sign and I think it implies with the wall sign requirements I review that my client consider it maybe the three dimensions won't support that but okay so uh perhaps so get underneath the overhang and then we eliminate that varant becomes part of the S very good I think we're manable to that I had a question uh going back and forth between the uh elevation and the plan um I don't believe the windows on the elevation match the plan okay yeah I'm sorry window [Music] I'm looking at window on the left hand side the higher window that goes basically from column to column right that would be uh in the smaller toilet room right but there's a wall there I understand uh the program just took the section through the plan um below that window because it's a shorter window and it has a high the cut plane is lower no I I totally understand but how does that how does that last cross the the wall that's behind it um I'm just saying like you may want to that's consistent with the on cons from what I'm looking at on the plan that bench seating that goes around the perimeter of the seating area where you have eight then you have two and two right it looked like you're sitting up against the wall but when I look at it on the plan it looks like you have your back to the window which is a little bit lighter let more light into that area it looks it looks like you're sitting against the wall in the plan but I think it's actually a nicer look with the window there back to sh Z1 propose to have a ra take away the [Music] sorry question was is there a second floor and there will not be a second floor there's currently an attic uh that will be removed the ceiling will be a raised ceiling um as we see in the building section drawing number two in the upper left corner of sheet1 want to get a sense of trying to get that kind of raised Cathedral type space um give a more sense of um no what a cafe what an interesting Cafe would look like make more open and [Music] are um I don't know which witness it is but can you just kind of I were there concerns about sewer connections with this I think it's on public it is it's always been on there are other Lots next to it further east or not problem but this one was already connected corre know if you were Ro no is an okay answer there's no it's served by public utilities uh yes well regarding s um actually the current building actually went to Old SE so part of the project is proposing sewer line Conn to the public sewer okay so it is part of it right I thought that was a big surprise I thought yeah it was it was mentioned in the review we've been coordinating with public works on it we're going propose a new line to connect is there a guas line for there existing gas favorite person traffic at least you know US state your name and spell it for the record John last name spelled c o r a k where Stone field engineering and design at 92 Park Avenue brother can you please take for your qualifications and experience of course um liced professional engineer in the state of New Jersey license is valid and in good standing um exper in field of traic and transportation engineering I've been practicing more than 10 years I'm a Bachelor of Science and civil engineering from the Jersey compared over two under traffic studies gr applications and I've testified in front of this board monso thank you thank you um John did you prepare a report that you submitted ination I did yes um that report dat March 21 2024 is that correct correct please take the board for your findings and announ thank you of course so I'm going to go ahead and A2 our site plan rendering back up on the board and so with any veling project that we review from a traffic perspective of course begins with site visit there a site um on Morristown Road Route 202 njd State Highway uh currently has three curb Cuts along the site front engine so as part of this proposal reducing that down from those three curb cuts to two curb cuts we do have a pending major access permit with the NJ do has been submitted has been deemed complete we are still awaiting comments um Unfortunately they tend to take a long time with any of their reviews lately um so aside from that this is a a it's a project for modern European Cafe um I would say that from the perspective of transportation engineering as professionals the data that's been collected they look at a variety of different restaurant uses they've looked at high turnover or sit down restaurants think Applebees chilies tji Fridays there's fine dining quality restaurants um you those are the the more formal places might be taking reservations and the like various fast food users and even fast casual um a cafe like this I don't know that it falls explicitly within any one of those categories right it's it's it's something that I don't think Transportation Engineers have studied but just day-to-day experience you know from you know from my lived experience your lived experience we can kind of Judge where it falls within a high Archy of a uh of a restaurant traffic impacts we can take that we can compare it to activity at the Garden Center uh when it was open and operating um and and see that on a roadway like Route 202 moristown road that increases associated in traffic at these driveways are not going to be significant not going to be detrimental from a level of service perspective uh to that State Highway um aside from that um we've talked a little bit about deliveries trash we're able to accommodate all of that activity on the site itself um while our architect was testifying I was working it out with Mr rth uh the Chairman's idea of relocating the Ada accessible space to the other side which would then give us taking out some the patio area give us five spaces on that side including a way for a trash truck to turn around during off hours and then on the other side where we currently show the eight spaces that I guess would be um that's the west side of the site we would still continue to provide eight spaces there because the the Ada space and the access aisle for it are both 8 ft wide whereas a parking space needs to be 9 ft wide for uh um you know to to meet the minimum requirements and so we can tweak that lot a little bit just to get a little bit better circulation and flow with eight parking spaces that are each 9 ft wide so that's going to bring us the 13 spaces for the site um the the parking requirement we've touched on it already quite a bit uh it's one space per employee plus one space for every three seats so the the applicants intent and what they're agreeable to do is for all employees whether it's 4 10 12 whatever the number might be uh as the business grows right now it's four um they Park in the train station lot through an agreement uh with the burrow um and then that basically leaves for the the 13 proposed spaces on the site a little matter of arithmetic as to how many seats we could have at any given time this come out to 39 seats um total between inside and outside for uh for the project um so we're comfortable with uh the parking Arrangement on the site itself we're comfortable with the trash circulation and delivery circulation because we're able to schedule all of those operations uh before the business is open so we're able to take all of that off of Morristown Road we're not going to be doing any loading uh within uh the NJ do RightWay we're not having any tractor trailers or large box trucks it's all it's all small delivery apparatus and even a 28ft truck that was talked about before on that uh on that west side with the double side of parking area we can can make that turnaround with that truck um you know with the a couple K turns to get to get them back uh back out onto Route 202 without backing up under rout 202 I'm sorry you say the Western uh the Eastern the deliveries the 28t truck I thought I heard you say Western lot I thought the concern was Eastern lot the Eastern lot was where the trash is the western side in my opinion just has more spaces the deliver would be on western side that's how I would Envision it it could go either way we feel size of the truck right you know the smaller the box truck the better but you know I'm looking at a 28-footer on the western side we can get back out if you you get a 24f footer food on the Eastern side problem it would probably be on the Eastern side because that's where the kitchen is right and the bul storage hours they're going to walk through the restaurant make the what they're going to do i' rather that than the truck Park them not load is there any the the S plan shows a right turn exit restricted the right turn is there any physical barrier being closed no not at this time currently we show you know those arrows on the site um let's say the the right turn versus left turn access still under review of dot haven't received any comments from them um and so we're we're more so deferring is as you're familiar with traffic on 202 it's gridlock in the afternoon at this location understood so you know with do um maybe a case of a time and day restriction or or they may um you know we're really waiting there they're comment review was your application for full access gra both um honestly the the application was submitted six months ago so I don't remember there's been a few revisions on the plans since then I can't recall can I ask you a question about the numbers in your chart um no I'm looking at the exists for example it said that P use on Saturday was 49 cars I tell you you know I a long time open and they never approached that number and I'm also looking at the um 80 cars in an hour going into the new use going in and out of the new use oh I going into the news do those numbers sound right to you this is where we get to how when I was touching on the beginning of the testimony where we've got a modern European Cafe and what information we do have from the it trip generation manual it's not quite perfect inting right we're talking about a fast casual use is what is the land use that we're trying to represent here and sayle just take you through how how you do this okay you have a business and you put in one its classification mhm and um how you determine the number of cars that are going in for the entire day because then you go to the the tables and they tell you the different hours what percentage of the day's traffic is in that hour block have that basically right uh that's one one way of doing it what what I'll add to that is so it it comes from data collected by Traffic Engineers submitted to the it um that data is either collected in full day batches or it's limited to a peak hour and so what we typically study is the data correlating to the peak hour because there's naturally more study sites because it doesn't need a long time period for engineers to do that study so it's correlated to the peak hour and it's based on um essentially a sliding scale on a variable in this case for a fast casual restaurant it's going on square footage um certain land uses not this one unfortunately in it but certain ones other restaurants might have seats as a variable a residential project would have the number of units the number of bedrooms as a particular variable and so you have data collected by the it by Traffic Engineers and submitted to the it for fast casual restaurants now we think of those as Chipotle Panera Bread those types of um users and having worked on those types of applications their store sizes are usually much less than 4,400 Square F feet I've worked on Chipotle projects that are 2,000 sare fet or less and so we're sort of suffering if you will on that sliding scale because the the numbers essentially continue to increase even though we're working with an existing building um you know this is this is a retrofit of an existing building and reuse so the square footage is square footage so and if you look at the table category was it 9:30 it says the peak usage hours are in the evening right it says I think it's 79 78 I don't remember I look at the table so what that would tell me is that the traffic if that's right is the traffic will be ENT entering and leaving the parment when traffic is worse on to very worse it too um but what I'm sorry uh your name again what Jani said was that his big hour lunchtime right and when traffic is much less [Music] than the hour and frankly I don't think you're going have 31 cars com in but the entrance and exits there was not as much concern to as me as they would be at that that hour so I'm looking at this stuff I'm saying is this toe to it is it any use at all for that's that's a very good question and and I'm as I'm giving testimony I'm kind of contradicting my report as we're trying to understand so just the traffic so you based this report on a square footage yes and not on the actual number of seats inside the restaurant correct because me second the seats are now reduced based upon the prior testimony so I think there was an agreement that we built 44 to 36 so would that be beneficial in your analysis the fact that there are less seats that the trips even you know I know you're stuck with this chart but is that a what effect did that have on your analysis that will reduce the seats of the number of within the restaurant right so the the seat reduction would naturally lead to um a a a slightly less trip generation intensity for the project it's going to result in a lower parking demand intensity which is why we're looking at the the SE reduction in first place because of the parking requirements and and the ordinance and as I as I've had experience with other restaurant types where they do provide seat data and it's it's pretty linear line of you know seats are equivalent to trips at some at some ratio yes and and your analysis was also done when you anticipated 12 parking spaces and not now 13 it looks like that's the parking yeah but I'm saying that also assist with the number of cars par L could handle based upon the data that's we well it's it's gone back and forth so at the the March 21st date that this report was prepared it does reference 13 spaces had that at one point but okay all right so that so the reports on3 space so it come back again you know 31 cars coming out going going in and 25 around the other six people they L the the food was so good they never left they never so as I said 31% sounds incredibly High to me am I anybody disagree with me on that now I hope that's it's that good for you but it does sound like a lot of cars but the hour that those cars hit the traffic was probably more important to me than the number of cars so as run the week day of lunch hour PE and see what that is yeah so you know I know you're stuck with the with with the um technologies that your profession gives you but you have another view what's really going to happen here sure sure I understand the question um I know but this I'm trying to remember this land use the the the numbers that could drive us there toward the midday but I think what you're saying in terms of we have a higher intensity anticipated at lunchtime when traffic on Morristown Road is lower versus uh you know evening rush hour time it just doesn't align with modern European Cafe and the two you know you don't see that Peak being driven at 5:00 in the evening for that type of use so I think they're complimentary with the the roadway traffic patterns uh to an extent I don't have a hard number to give you right now but I I understand the point you're making and the other thing is that Garden Center was seasonal you weren't getting much business in December sure de [Music] right generation here un comfortable with the I don't agree with the numbers they don't make sense and I don't agree with with the point that you make that anything anything less than 50 vehicle increase um it has you know it's it's a pass um because we in situations where there's high intensity traffic like this that we should have the opportunity to look at whatever the difference in trip generation is not just 50s but in on this case this existing building it's the positive in my opinion out way the negatives so there is a negative to the to the increase in traffic I don't think it's subst I think I would sit down after yeah that's not just one that's the golden bu if how's happy with traffic just go sit down um um on the area I know you're considering the suggestion from the chair about the 88 you know the East parking lot true European you should think about where someone might be parking bicycles and you may have a little bit of space there that you're kind of wondering what to do with and yeah well based on if you encourage if you if you put that ADA space in there there's going to be some stuff left over and and there's also the Ada strike area and so I'm suggesting you I don't think you can get a whole parking place in there but you probably could get a bike rack in there where in that little sliver that's next to the Ada spaces and consider consider that that's U yeah you could you put you could put it even in front of the dumpster talk it over got to make sure that we have but operationally I just operationally just think about bikes and other stuff where you want just to be clear the walkway associated with an adli space can double as a uh bikeout to ramp but not the storage not the storage we need have a clear clear accessible pathway but other people can use it walk I think we should look to add bikeing somewhere happy to agree oh another correction to your report you have 8ot wide spaces the plan is 9 ft I think it was in reference to the 188 space but yes they're 9 foot spaces for the remainder of the of the lot yes I she actually Mr chairman um we've had some excellent feedback from the board members this evening I think we have some homework to do I would like us to uh conclude with traffic this evening and return at a future date um we have some plan revisions that were discussed tonight the Ada space sign sign transparency check it out transparency ordinance we think eliminated two variances tonight um but definitely with regard to uh plan revisions um we need some time to reou and then come back and at that time uh the app applicant will address their plan revisions and we would prefer to then through the planning testimony at that future date right but I want to give the public since you have your all I want to give the public U now and you can you sort of summarize what you summarize later too anyone from the public who has questions of any of these Witnesses or anything about this application uh come down and F us your name and no questions great good job then and so then um any I can ask for comments now well the discretion of the chair but it appears as if will be back with further testimony potential revisions and the planner testimony so com now should of course have the again yeah again so there's we need it now not it's just because it a comment is a suggested sheep's so if there's anyone from the public that has a comment about this application um you can come down be sworn and will'll take your comments n okay that was easy so um you did sort of just summarize if this there's anything else you want to add um sorry any more questions you think you need to make well iose to how long do we need gentlemen to get plan revisions back into the board when is the next meeting November 14 but yeah we have something on I think and are there be times that they like there no no further notice but is there anything they have to have documents in by a certain that's really up to the board professionals you know what I mean it's like well yeah it's there's a meeting on December 12th that so to meet your vision so we can put those up so that they can be online you're looking at like November 22nd as your drop dead date like that drop dead date we have a meeting that sounds like Thanksgiving December 12 is the meeting is the meeting and your plans need to be submitted for review comment prep to thanks 20 days that gives you like four weeks from today we'll make that work everybody's available to set without the need to fur notice to make that announc all your Witnesses are good yeah yeah okay and the uh and are we clear as to what that list of deliverables is I believe so would you be more comfortable if we went through itd shair that's I would clear up any confusion I guess quickly knock it off we have abely Engineers here so so the Ada space turning radius ad space um if there's an update from NJ do at that time we discuss the reduction of seats to 36 that was a St actually um since we're proposing 13 spaces total that's you know fair is fair um we discuss potentially but your plan should the interior PL for your architect should be revised to show where those five space uh seats disappeared correct we'll show that yeah they but we also allow them to say seasonal too right just make sure the permanent ones are specified and also show the seating on the outside does it show when there's the fo flop the lack of right the outo seting and I think you need I guess also provide indication as to where the new barriers would go with that new Ada space between means that SP can yeah yes any any boundary between parking and people seasonal whatever has to be very clear what the barriers are then update the lights your flood lightss the relocation of the sign to the front yes the calculation as to transparency and articulation articulation uh a larger sidewalk an additional bike parking or somewhere and you still probably need to drill down or Dig Down down on your trash uh containers because I don't think anyone's happy with the bage L and the hours of operation delivery yeah check the ordinance against what you really want to live with so and you also you planned was missing the dryw from parking lot into the drive well whatever was comments that they already I think um bik show the bikes two other things were communication entry trans depending on uh the addition of AR in the back and then um uh unifying the different plans when it comes to the windows in the front as well or consist but they did notify New Jersey Transit as part of the 200 F property own correct I just been as far as no no but at least understand that that's going to be a condition that they're going to clean up that property they're going to need they can't they can't do construction on New Jersey transit property without um having some communication or permitting or some kind of access agreement with them yeah want to clarify liting Shar parking yeah you might want to do a measurement to where the train station parking lot in terms of L of feet because you may not limit yourself to that as the old Shar porkin and then say you're looking for parking within 200 ft of 300 ft that may give you opportunities office building across the street or things of that or look at the library parking instead ofing out just the I feel an agreement between the veteranarian down so but as long as long as it's within that radius of M feet then we're not going to care but it may give you a client little options of where to find it AB for for operations we didn't discuss it but also cons you did briefly but consider having a a delivery modern restaurants they have a a parking spot that's deliveries or pickup and I just say that's where you're like any any of the new ones it's like here's where people Park to get to to do pickups not just saying think about that operationally is is that something you'd want to do so December 12th what else are we missing anything uh did you have more on your list did catch everything anything from your witnesses that they they they've given you everything that they think they're supposed to only other comment that hopefully we'll look into between now and then is I think it was your comment Mr chairman with regard to um weather proofing the yeah I think or you have an overhang when you walk ince so maybe drop air on the outs was and snow but that was just for you to think about all right so this matter will be carried without further notice through December 12 2020 before 7:30 p.m. building location and time off chance we do you'll extend the time to act via an email through December 13 thank you everybody okay uh thanks and Denise properties and are they posting I they're doing notice they're doing notice sent it in yesterday to check something and the coun equin is on for the 14th and and plans I plans already submitted the plans were already submitted they're already in our little okay that's that's all I just I got three times all right uh any business visitors so is that a new application or it say remember well aming the original application because they actually dou check if we did it as revised the time this it's important point so understand so it has the same name on it 238 there's not enough of us up here that to vote if it's a continuation because we I was not there you run out of you you were now so you run out correct so somebody has to volunteer unless unless you're going to look back at the record yes that's want them to come and then we go ah we don't have enough Fe let's I thought we were treating it as an amended he's just bringing up a great point that if they start fresh there's advantages to Contin and advantage to starting fresh if it's a continuance then I have no problem going back and listening to everything to be able to vote but somebody needs to do that otherwise not enough I don't think they I think presly exists is on new board members to go back how many many you know the problem is that they do with a new application I believe they're a new storm water so I think look I'll I'll listen to it I'd rather be up to speed and consciously discuss it come to so I think the three of us have said we will do our best thank you for highlighting that fact so that the board members are aware of the circumstance cor and plus it's not necessarily to the applicant if they're Limited in the number of people that are able to v no it is amended and all right and I we appreciate the board back but you will need to just if you could tee up exactly what they they need to do and while all that information of course is important appreciate that you be looking at it you understand that the revised plans obviously are different correct and my understanding is it is a scale down yes I at the yes yes it is scaled down so but we won't talk about it any okay no business of visitors right you're all good no oh no uh you can say whatever you want um yeah you know I was listening to find out can't talk about anything that application yeah no so I wish I had spoken of but it was not he actually you get another chance on the he covered it yes that all right yeah that's why we're trying to give you both the opportunity I yeah well I was breathing one side of relief and then forgot about the other thing but then you kind of covered it so it's I I'll do it in comments okay question Witnesses come yeah no executive session no executive session