okay we are recording thank you in accordance with the open public meetings act please note the following all burners will burrow planning board meetings will be held in person in the meeting hall building okay try it again all Burnville B planning board meetings will be held in person in the meeting Hall on the second floor of the Burnville Municipal Building at 166 mbrook Road meetings will be live streamed on YouTube with no opportunity public comment members of the public wishing to offer comments or ask questions of witnesses will be required to attend meetings in person YouTube live stream access for all meetings is YouTube at Bernardsville burrow streams bur is B this link will also be available on the agenda for each meeting which is posted on the burough website which is is www Bernardsville burrow b b.org and on the burall public Bulet board at least 48 hours prior to meetings notice of these changes has also been emailed to the Bernville news and The Courier News by posting the copy on the buau website and by following a copy with the municipal clerk on January 16 2024 there the intention of the board not to continue any P 11m can you just um say that a little slower I'll give you the sheet okay sure it is the intention of the board not to continue any matter past 11: P p.m. at any regular or special meeting of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend to a later specified cut off time and Saint shall be announced at the opening of each meeting in addition the board does not intend to begin a new hearing after 10 p.m. or begin testimony of a new witness after 10:30 p.m. any hearing conducted by the board is a quasy Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider enriching a decision the Quorum appropriate to a Judicial doing must be maintained at all time sh this is it right this is to do office first yes thank you and it's my privilege to welcome our new member Joe Demar go stand and and repeat after me I state your name I Joe do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support that I will support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the United States and the state of New Jersey and the state of New Jersey and that I will bear and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to same true faith and allegiance to same and to the governments and to the government established in the United States established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will Faithfully that I will and that I will faithfully impartially and justly impartially and justly perform all of the duties perform all the duties of office of planning board member of of the office of planning board member according to the best of my ability according to the best of my will and that I will not not use my office and that I will not use my office to Grant preferential treatment to Grant preferential treatment nor to seek personal gain nor to see personal gain favor or Advantage favor or Advantage not available to the general public not available to the general public so help me gu so help me welcome aboard thank you sir now we can have call no call first I'm sorry we have a nomination actually we can do roll call first and then Nom yes Mr DeMarco pres Miss Gardner here Mr G Miss Geller pres Mr Graham here Mr Horwitz here Mr McQueen is absent Mr Sima absent Mr Walden is absent and Mr Zarina you have a for Mr chairman thank you okay so now we'll do the uh we had a stalemate open organizational meeting for role of the vice chair and we have an even number night counting correct actually I I do want to say I'm removing my name from consideration I'll nomin there any other nominations you AC AC I accept nomin no other it could be a Voice vote and acclamation perhaps all in favor say I any opposed congratulations thank you I think I have another okay uh now we have meeting minutes uh review for two meetings the October 26th meeting and the November 16th meeting we only have the 16th we only have 16th oh we have November 16th November 16th is October 26 to follow Denise if I may or yeah I just didn't get to complete it on page two is this what we've been over yeah on page two I think we we should list the El M that voted yes I have that I think we should reference what St okay so the the line above the typ of Graal ever pertaining to the length of a moving vehicle the I'm sorry sorry I couldn't hear you too sorry I think we should include what we amended to perhaps using whatever langu we put in [Music] resolution anything else the bottom page two where it starts Mr McDonald as we started his testimony or started his testimony it's just kind of yeah it should say restarted and on page three this is just um a misspelling it's real B I'm sorry I couldn't hear you okay three questions of Mr McDonald from the public it's the first question from Kathy redling Mr McDonald respond the bottom okay wheel barrels and it's actually wheel barel thank you and that's one of the things that on page seven Mr Shell's testimony it's six six item down electric utility meters will be installed on the Northern facade and on page8 it said the electric utility room on the east side of the ground floor with meters being situated on the outside of the wall of this room so it's I don't know whether it's either nor or Eastern side wait so where is the second reference I have the first one second reference is page eight this pumo testimony and it's the uh second second one from the end of our comments the building will electricity room on the east side of the ground floor I'm sorry I'm sorry I Mr chairman maybe in the future we I apologize but we can try to address these things before the meeting via email with any suggested revisions to the minutes so as not to take the time with everyone else yeah okay that's just that's the last one and that that one um well that was you that was money from two different so I'll have to go and check that yeah from two different um professionals yeah and then at the end the end of well we can talk about this later we can go this later okay yeah is the board comfortable enough assuming those modifications made to adopt the resolu excuse me adopt the minutes as amended I'll move a minute in favor I anyos ofone wasn't there y okay thank you Den you have somebody in the waiting room I don't know if you have uh I can't let him in okay I didn't know sure how he got the uh invitation okay so we just Communications NG go letter um on the N letter do we know if that construction on 202 is going close 202 yeah the one one near oh no that that one is repair to the raining wall and I'm sorry sir can I I couldn't hear you there's a CT that goes under 202 and they to be repairing retaining wall and some Stone aprons around but that won affect traffic on 202 I can't tell you if they're going to put a lane closure up we not to do that work but I don't think it's a closure okay okay that was the first two and then 's notice for Linda I'm sorry can I get I do you have a copy of the agenda yeah actually writing is unfortunately if I may chair since we don't have microphones at least not yet for the board members for the benefit of the public and everyone as board members I we may wish to speak almost as loud as I do I agree with that the reporting is better that way as well yeah it helps everything unfortunately it's an effort to shout was a rece of a wb's notice for lindbur Avenue uh there is also notice of public hearing for Highland Council Regional master plan amendments did you want to say anything at all um yeah I I don't know what's in there that so I don't know if we should comment or not yeah it's just a notice and uh then finally the Somerset County planing board letter uh cultural and Heritage commission draft long range plan public notice so there's they're giving it the long range public hearings for cultural and [Music] Heritage all right um Mr chairman just just I may for the edification or benefit of of any board members of public who might not be aware that Regional master plan amendments for the highlands those are related to uh two items the warehouse guid lines that the highlands put out uh they're seeking to amend the Highlands Regional master plan to include and then enforce those Warehouse Provisions for those of course performs in the islands the other is a land use capability zone map uh probably less of Interest or controversy perhaps to uh but that's just more of a map amendment I just wanted to share that uh so that everyone knows what those hearings are about right the notice didn't say also their entire plan so this going to be a whole process of of riew and adop I'm sorland master plan proceeding with amending and revising updating fairly significant steps thank you Mr chair right but we're not off the then right we are not yeah but it's always worth knowing what they're doing all right is there anyone here who has come to discuss something that's not on the agenda tonight good evening do I just need to say my address a name and address please Kathy pichy 70 Chilton um I'd like to start on a positive note first of all belated happen New Year and welcome back Mr Garder thank you and welcome to the new members and I hope that um Mr McQueen and Mr Sim will hear this at some point too so thank you uh planning board and our professional staff here thank you very much for your meticulous and mindful review of the many development projects now recurring in the town occurring in the town it's a very serious task and the responsibility right now going forward is is right here so because of your devoted efforts I've also as you know I've attended many many meetings either here in person or in the hybrid setting and because of your devoted efforts I've also seen the developers collaborate with the town and willingly adjust and optimize their plans and that's been good to see so thank you and I hope that that Spirit of meticulous review and collaboration between the town and the developers continues I'd also like to just make one comments about the format it was my I have to respectfully disagree with you Mr Warner and um it was my understanding at the end of last year that we were going to return to the hybrid format there was that one off situation that's true um however I thought we were going back to that situation of the hybrid and it doesn't we are there's no opportunity for the public to comment unless they're here it's wonderful to have this this turnout here tonight but you all know and I know because I come that's not always the case so I'm not going to argue it with you I'm just expressing that I thought that was an okay format there have been multiple problems uh not Denise's fault especially but just multiple problems with the L the volume and everything else even going to the YouTube settings so I just wanted to share that comment so thank you very much and please keep up the good work can I take your last name please uh spelling please um pachy p e a c h e y any others all right um old business we have no resolutions for adoption we do expect to have two next meetings next and we're well on our way one is already to the to the various things okay uh on new business it's um we just have to quickly review the bills and approve them move that we pay the standing bills and $3,520 I'm sorry can you just say that in my I move that we pay the outstanding bills in the amount $3,520 to our roll call roll call I apologize the bills a uh it's not a resolution so it could be a okay all in favor of paying the bills say I I any oppos any exensions no and I'm sorry I to council I I Mo be second thank you so much okay so the the opening acts the main event is uh public hearing it's the only one we have scheduled for tonight it's the um initial um public hearing uh AR at burn LLC it's 39 alut Square by Morris Town Road B Block 125 blocks one through three and its application 24 SP 247 and Mr chairman if I may before applicants Council make his opening yes I did want to just a couple things one for procedural purposes uh are there any attorneys who are representing any individuals or entities here this evening in which case um that has an impact on who can question Witnesses during the proceedings we have any attorneys representing any individuals or entities seeing and hearing none that resolves that issue uh also I did have an opportunity to review the notice found the content to be sufficient found it to be timely served certified now and published on January 25th each more than 10 days prior to this evening so at least uh initially my legal opinion uh unless it it felt Changed by anyone uh is that this board has jurisdiction to hear and decide the application and appreciate the opportunity Mr chairman sorry to hold up the own Mr War just I know you and I you you I believe you will be recusing yourself will yes so I did speak with you um and at this time I'm just going to refuse myself um from this hearing um for this particular event thank you Mr not a problem thank you and we have one two three four five we have aquarum we may continue kitchen and aquarum all right well well good evening everyone uh my name is John wies scholar I'm here tonight on behalf of AR at Bernardsville LLC it's my pleasure to be here before the board this evening uh my client is an affiliate entity uh which is under the ownership and control of advanced realy investors uh Advance is a privately held and fully integrated real estate development and management firm uh they're headquartered about 3 miles from here in Bedminster uh the company was founded in 1979 uh and since that time uh it has developed over 20 million square feet of commercial space uh and over 3,300 residential units uh throughout the Northeast region and and here in New Jersey uh it is a company that takes Pride uh in developing owning and managing its assets and it does a great job with that uh Advance does specialize in high-end residential and revital revitalization projects such as the one that we're proposing here in Bernardsville uh the property that is the subject of the application is what is commonly known as the Palmer Square site I know you're all familiar with it uh property address just for the record again is 35 to 39 oakal Square uh and five moristown Road uh it is uh designated as block 125 and it's blocks one two and three property has been owned by the Palmer family my understanding at least back to the 1930s it's currently developed with several commercial buildings as well as a large surface parking lot uh back in 2022 uh the burough undertook a study to determine whether this property met the criteria uh to be designated as an area in need of Redevelopment under your or under the New Jersey local Redevelopment and Housing law uh and that is a that's a statute that does provide for the Redevelopment and revitalization of properties that are designated as areas in need of Redevelopment in the old days they used to call them blad areas blate studies um burrow hired his professionals a study was prepared that included a map and that was actually a very deliberative process uh that study was uh presented at a public hearing before this planning board uh and ultimately went to uh to the Govern in body your mayor and councel uh and in September of 2022 uh at a public hearing the mayor and Council adopted a resolution that designated this property as a non-c condemnation are in needly development and what that allowed for is for the municipality to take the next steps for the planning and Redevelopment of the site and that process is very much a collaborative process and one that involves studies and research and so forth um in furtherance of the Redevelopment law um the uh the burrow took the next steps uh professionals started studying uh and preparing a Redevelopment plan and what the Redevelopment plan is essentially it's really a it's really a re a zoning ordinance for this particular site uh and it was very much a collaborative effort uh concept plans were submitted uh over over a period of time um significant consideration over that period when into uh how this site should be redeveloped what the standard should be how tall building should be how many residential units how much commercial space should be there parking Etc uh and ultimately a Redevelopment plan was prepared uh it was introduced by ordinance uh by your by your burrow Council uh that plan was referred just like any other zoning ordinance back to this planning board uh sometime in 2023 you saw it and you did a review of that Redevelopment plan uh and ultimately the plan came back on a second reading public hearing before the mayor and Council uh for the adoption of that Redevelopment plan which actually occurred on May 8th of 2023 my client uh was designated as the redeveloper of the property in August of 2023 uh and a Redevelopment agreement was sub subsequently executed um approved by the council and what that Redevelopment agreement does it sets forth the obligations and uh steps that need to be taken with respect to the very important Redevelopment of this site uh we are before you this evening seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval uh our proposal is to redevelop this site with 68 uh residential units and about 9200 Square F feet of commercial space ground floor commercial space we've got structured parking uh large amenity space uh through the middle of the development uh and the plan that you're to see before you tonight or that's before you tonight you're going to see on the screen really is largely the plan that was developed it was part of the Redevelopment plan through the process uh Etc and we'll get into all the details of that as we go through uh one thing I want to make clear uh the application is a fully conforming plan um we meet all of the bulk standards uh that are set up for the Zone density height impervious coverage setbacks in the light um if you look through your application package we we had uh actually two architectural design waivers uh they were we actually noticed for them uh but we've eliminated those design waivers uh they were they were fairly minor in nature um so we are before you tonight at a fully conforming plan uh we are in receipt of a number of reports uh we received from your board professionals some of the various commit IES start preservation environmental commission uh fire subcode uh committee we're going to address all those number of the fire comments that we received we do have a plan that fully conforms uh with with all applicable building and fire codes some recommendations were made to enhance uh some of the fire protection standards uh we're in agreement on a number of those we'll speak to them as we go through the hearing uh my client Advance very excited at the Prospect of redeveloping this property uh as I indicated their headquarters are in Bedminster uh the opportunity to to build a beautiful Flagship Community here in Bernardsville um is is very exciting for us and uh we're happy to be here uh we do have a great development team I have three Witnesses I intend to call this evening time permitting uh Paul M uh he's professional engineer civil engineer with Stonefield engineering uh Paul is going to run through all aspects of the existing site the existing conditions of the site plan as it's being proposed it's consistency with the Redevelopment plan um we also joh and he'll also touch on operations as well how this property will operate how they be manage all aspects of trash removal and deliveries and so forth uh we we're also joined by John corak he's also of Stonefield Engineering also a professional engineer he's our traffic engineer that we're a fully flooring site we did prepare a uh a traffic study and he'll speak to it uh and we also have Kevin Smith uh he's our project architect with Robert am Stern architecture uh they designed the project uh that is before you and he'll speak as well uh also joined by a number of members of the advanced uh Team Peter kakosi Yello and Rob carad so some questions may come up somewhere along the hearing uh and if we need to call on them we may very well so I don't know if the board has any questions of me at this time if not I'd like to move on to our first witness who I know Mr Warner is going to want to swear in I don't know if you want to swear all of our Witnesses in at once the happy with the chairs just swear the person permission to do either way but I'm going to swear in our board professionals as I always do as well so we have can I applicant engineer and our board professionals our engineer Mr brightley in our planner M you'll all raise your right hand please all of you swear to God or affirm that the teson you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you all uh Mr M can you please provide the board with a brief summary of your educational and professional background and licenses you hold certainly I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey I graduated from Rowan University with a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from packing the field for roughly 11 years uh with specific experience on applications similar to the one you'll see this evening and have been accepted by more than 100 land use boards in the state of New Jersey as an expert witness accepted accepted Mr M your office has been involved in the design of this project for some time is that correct it has uh you prepared the plans that are before the board this evening is that right we have yes uh I'm just going to turn the floor over to you uh I know you've got some uh exhibits and so forth uh we have submitted them as we move through I'll ask you to uh identify them anything that's not part of the actual site plan Set uh identify them uh we're going to pick up with exhibit A1 to start with today's date and then you'll just roll through certainly can you make me the ability to share on the zoom meeting oh I'm [Music] sorry did you just slow down a little bit I'll slow it yeah making don't give me all I know I clicked the wrong one yeah you're good now you click yes then I'm good to go start with an exibit I don't think need Bo I think it's good to way I think that's M clear for everyone so I think that works yeah we do have we have a hardboard that we can put up on the um on the es but it does pretty I like it on the screen okay the before we proceed these are exhibits that were uh submitted to the board not more than 10 days in advance of the evening hearing that's that's correct the mark each one as an exhibit A1 A2 is for safety some of them may have come in Warner but why don't we just mark them anyway and that way it's clear concur with the conservative approach very conservative so the initial exhibit which I assume that we will Mark as exhibit A1 is just an aerial exhibit prepared by my office on February 7th just to give the board an idea of what the site looks like today I don't think we need to belabor the topic this this is a pretty prominent site at the intersection um as you can see this this project and the intention here is to revitalize a site that's going underutilized and could really use some Redevelopment to pull pedestrians to the site Revitalize the commercial aspect but also provide um some different amenities that we go through this evening the main goal here is you see a lot of old pavement on the site let's get rid of that let's clean that up and provide a you know a modern and revitalized site which is what we're tring trying to do this evening so I'll go to my second exhibit um which is we can Mark exhibit A2 this is also prepared by my office dated February 6 it is simply a colorized version of the site plan that we actually submitted a few days before the hearing we've made some kind of some minor tweaks around the edges to the actual plan it's very similar to the initial plan but we've been working to eliminate those architectural waivers and also ease the Turning movements into the garage and invite some more um pedestrian space along the front edge which I'll get into as we go through um again this project is intended to revitalize the full Frontage with the target being at the intersection at the all caught Square so that is where we propose the retail spaces there are three distinct retail spaces that are located um in the old Palmer building at the the corner at the and at the two there's two there's two retail spaces that kind of um straddle that area that goes into the uh into the courtyard um we are looking to revamp The Pedestrian experience along the frontage there is a comment about Street trees on the Civil site plans the street trees aren't shown but on the architectural there's some locations shown we're happy to work with your professionals to provide Street trees we want them there's a lot of utilities and other things out there that we'll have to coordinate but we intend to put Street trees along the frontage as well to match the rest of the streetcape and to complement what we're doing on site and what we're doing on site and what we're extending a little bit into the right of way is giving some some level areas to introduce seating and pedestrian areas along the front edge of the site where there is a currently pretty steep slope so that was one of the tweaks we made between the submitted plan and this plan is there's just a more expansive and usable pedestrian area the frontage which you kind of see in that Pinker color on the screen right now we have those um we have those encompassed by planter boxes we intend to plant a tree in the center at that northwest corner of the site just to bring a very friendly and pedestrian inviting area that will then service the commercial the retail the restaurants and whatever else goes in those those specific areas those three distinct retail spaces along the front Ed so so excuse me so so what's being presented now is the revive plan it hasn't submitted to we did I don't know if we submitted it 10 days before that was the only question has it been submitted then it has been submitted prior to this meeting we have plan along with the architectural corre and again these are these are minor tweaks to the overall plan this is not substantial changes this is tweaks around the edges to The Pedestrian area is also access to the Gar so well when you're when you're referring to the plan I think you have a mouse there so if you're going to point out to any areas or describe any areas yeah certainly I doing as well the board and the public so again this this these areas out in front of the building are that are surrounded by some some planters as well as we'll introduce some trees to those areas again meant to invite pedestrians there's still the walking area the fully conforming walking area along the front all revamped new curve new sidewalk to all of the all of the standards but we also introduce these areas that will help serve the retail spaces to give an inviting area for the pedestrians to use those spaces so they are successful and vibrant as we move forward that in addition to the to the items that we're providing around the outside for the public good and in the right of way we're also providing an internal Courtyard for our residents as well to enjoy there are passive and active seating areas dining nodes balled lighting and things of the like that can be enjoyed by the residents as well so so we're looking to get rid of the parking area and replace it with something that's really positive um for this building to serve this building in addition to the improvements that we're going to be making at the right of ways structured parking is provided below what you're seeing on the screen here um and the that parking that is provided is fully compliant with the Redevelopment plan there is 135 spaces required for the Redevelopment plan and we provide 139 spaces residents will have two tiers to purchase parking in this an assigned space to your unit and or kind of a first come first serve shared um agreement you pull down the ramp that comes off of Morristown Road on the right side of that plan and I'll point it out here you enter the garage underneath the building there'll be a gate there where there'll be the ability to either you have a key fob as a resident or you can there'll be a pay by hour type of thing for some of the commercial parking this underneath that structure as well again it's a it's a co-mingled and shared parking situation that has been very successful and many of the properties that that Advance has worked on and is currently managing and we expected to be successful here as well and again we're actually plus five on the Redevelopment plan and the parking agreement that is in that Redevelopment plan um one thing you'll see is the architect testifies later is we have relocated our EV spaces to the edges of the garage rather than internal it was a comment in some of the review letters and that came directly just um so we have relocated the EV spaces associated with this from internal of the garage to more around the edges and that is the result of a meeting that we had with some of the fire officials um in the area um and we introduced those those spaces along the edge forther recommendations for for fire safety so we've move those around we're going to comply with state law as part of this application um and and and provide the different percentages that are required as part of that again the access comes from Morristown Road you do come down a ramp next to the building um and enter the garage there's a small kiosk that's shown here which I've talked about there's also what because we have this rant there's going to be a small wall that's located along that right hand side of the page that serves two purposes first it serves the purpose to to have facilitate the ramp that goes down but there's also an access easement that straddles the the property line it's 4T wide 2 feet on our side 2 feet on theirs so that wall will provide a protective fence as well as that 2 feet that's required as an access agreement that's associated with the property we will be fully maintaining that in the proposed condition the courtyard is a great feature of this application as well it kind of Acts in a way as a green roof because it is above uh the parking area but it introduces these different plantings um and again offers that active and passive seating dining nodes shade areas um and the full Landscaping plant you see there are native Hardy plants that will be fully irrigated so they are successful for the long term um there is a central water feature that's what you see in the blue there as well and there's a lot of opportunities here to program this and really make it look great for for the uh for the use of the residence um post lighting will be provided within that courtyard as well giving low lighting for pedestrian Comfort not intended to be bright obus lighting but low lighting that that can be programmed as well to give the pedestrians Comfort when the when it does get dark um and finally we're going to collect the runoff of this area and and discharge it via the storm water management system overall so there won't be water that you see now flowing over the site and over the sidewalk and into the road we're going to collect all of that and put it in a conveyance system that then discharges to the southwest corner of the site loading and operations and deliveries are sort of tucked away way on Mount Ary Road that's located at the bottom left of your page there's essentially like a a usable access here off Mount Ary Road as well as an enclosed and covered loading area so residents that come in for move in and move out can either utilize that area and there's a door into that or they can actually back their vehicle or the box truck that they rented from uul into that area and then all of the loading operations occur in here that will be the same for delivery trash pickup it'll all utilize that area and there's the ability to pull into that covered space um to utilize that but there'll also be parking um located outside the building for quick pickups and things like that but we've tried to provide an area on site for that that's sort of tucked away from the main intersection Services the building in a covered and manageable way and there'll obviously be internal management of the trash rooms and you'll hear more about that from our architect and just just relative to that um this will be managed by advance correct yes uh coordination with respect to residential Movin would all be coordinated through the property management company uh that's correct uh limitations on number of movein on any given day yeah typically there are three and they're given three hour Windows if there's any move in move out so there's not you know there's not a conflict there so everything is scheduled and well regulated by the management team trash removal would be handled by way of private waste Aller that's correct by building management as well yes yes that is correct thank you and then just to speak a little bit to the to the site management as well the building management you'll hear more as we go but this will be done in a very Advanced way it is um it's a Virtual Tenant portal um so you'll have access to track work orders and other things that go go on inside the building and Management contact management and things like that it's a very you know dynamic essentially an app on your phone that you use to uh for the the the overall site management here finally storm water um for this site we do have an overall reduction in in impervious coverage especially because we introduce that green space in the courtyard so we naturally meet the various um njd regulations here we are removing a significant amount of Motor Vehicle surface that's basically what the uh what the D is looking for is to remove that and all of this this patio area as well as the roof area is a much cleaner and more controlled runoff so we're going to reduce the load of sediment debris and other things inside the conveyance system that's located along the frontage of this site we're also going to be reducing the overall volume going there just by a reduction in impervious coverage so the storm water management system collects everything on site and pipes it out to that bottom left corner of your site similar to the existing um drainage plan but not Overland and not and not carrying the debris of the existing parking lot so collects and discharge it collects and discharge it not collects and release it does not what it's not collect and release it does not there are no detention basins do nothing to release okay that's correct finally utilities are publicly available along the front edges we show those connections on our plans today and we'll be coordinating closely with the various um utility authorities that are in charge of each one of those services to ensure um that those lines are installed to their purview and then John what I'll do is I'll turn it over to anything I missed on the operational side and we can open question I think you I think you've covered it for right now Paul thank you uh you have had a chance to review the review report by uh the uh board engineer correct we have yes uh do you care to address uh address those items uh I believe in large part we have a lot of will complies yeah just chairman just for the record you're referring to January 26 2024 report of Boswell engineering Mr that is correct Mr Warner thank you yeah and I think in all of the review letters other than the items that were specific testimony was was requested which I'll put on if there's anything that your professionals think I've missed we're not we don't object to any of the comments and we intend to work with your professionals and comply with those so we'll comply as to everything you'll testify to whatever is necessary yes anything that needs clarification Mr bright board the public or anyone else one one thing I would like to confirm uh Mr M it's actually item 10 on page four there is a question regarding a formal easement there is no formal easement is that correct yeah that's correct and all the title research as well as the Ala and just research in General on the property there's no formal easement between between um the Masonic Lodge which is located to the east of the and this site as far as access so as we develop this project we're not in breach of anything historically on the site NE nevertheless in the event one is determined to exist or found you'll uh you'll abide by we'll abide by the terms of of anything I think there is actually something covering the alley there yes alley you with the twoot separation distance yes that will be maintained there's no access agreement for the the two parking lots are connected talk about lot four in the rear of theic Lodge bu yes that's correct do they have any other access to that parking area I believe yes there's a curve cut that's provided yes there you have retaining all so there be significant GI gr I'm sorry can I um I couldn't he you to all sorry yeah I think the attorneys there's going to be a difference in grade between closed elevations and where that driveway is now there will be yes and we've actually that's part of the tweaks that we made to the plan we've shortened that ramp and and brought up the elevation of that garage a little bit since the original submission again to limit the size of that wall also make it a little bit easier for storm water management and just maintenance of that driveway in general um so we are looking to do that and then again there'll be a there'll be a fence and other and anything else that's required along the that wall to ensure that it's safe um and maintains that access area to your if there was an access to lot that's going to be cut off by the retaining wall guide Rail and security that's correct the the proposed elevations at that Southeast corner of your planet where the connection currently is there won't be an interconnection there anymore just because of the wall and the different developments that we're doing Paul I'm sorry you know one one operational issue I do want you to speak to is uh is actually the uh the parking access to uh to the parking structure both for the commercial and the residential uh I think you spoke to it but I just want to clarify um we've got a shared Arrangement it's actually part of the Redevelopment plan correct uh so so public parking will have access and it's a we're not going to actually have segregated parking for commercial and residential it's essentially a first comp P Ser intention at this time is that correct yes and there was in the overall all parking total there was 102 parking spaces required for the residential and 30 I guess it's 30 two parking spaces required for the commercial portion for the Redevelopment plan we've provided all of that in kind of a co-mingled um parking garage and we actually have plus five spaces on on top just what we're able to do with the parking garage we're going to come back to this in the future I appreciate that you've taken that approach I believe we can come up with a a better approach um that will that allow segregation of retail from tenant so we come back to it I I also and Bob I'll you I think there are a lot of items here that there are a lot is always that they can comply with but I there were there were some items are you comfortable that it sounds like I want to give you a shot do saying we're going to no we're happy to I'm not sure where to start but we number one yeah we can go through we can we can go through Point by point a number of them are architectural comments obviously yeah correct are there any that they're difficult typically they're aable and you adjust something you put something on our plan is there anything that you feel on this and your report that you want them to explicitly first one St water they will have to demonstrate compliance okay just by reduction in Bur surface it's a good start um they are connecting out onto the exist drainage system on mortown road I'm not sure how much goes there now and what's you know what they're adding to that area but you know I think stor War can be address I guess the two big issues are the access to the parment garage I thought that was a little tight the way that the parking wall of buildings up against the driveway and the loading area I think we need some exhibits to demonstrate how that's going to work um yeah and we can certainly provide structuring exhibits that that show that I think there'll be a lot of questions about the loading area um which we cover okay um there couple of things one the turning radius okay was something we typically want to say and that's not something that uh you can just compile by deing the engineer on and also a comment about Frontage you said that the is non I'm sorry can you you said that the the frontage of 8,000 ft was apparently uh not compant and to they said that they complied with that and ier to the board Planner on how to analyze that that's something that that's conversation I'm sorry I couldn't I didn't hear you here without the microphone that'll be a conversation with the go through the plan these standards and uh I think the answer is yes but you okay with the um and it may may have been revised because uh with the uh pitch of the driveway The Landings or elevations any of that is is or is that still a work in progress still a work in progress because I haven't seen any plans i' address these Comin oh right you went to the Cross sections there were I pointed out what I thought was some access issues with the grading plan the arch walkway in didn't seem to you didn't seem to get the elevation get into the building entrances comp it's architectural engineering quite a few comments on the but in your mind in your report you feel that the driveway uh design is achievable well just like the Turning temp what I put on there look like that Kos would be in the way they did mention that they opened it up but we haven't seen that we'll see that okay sorry question is there a door that's on that entry is there's a kios but is there also are do down doors oh you're talking about like roll down doors not not at this no no I just wasn't wasn't evident because it wasn't there okay that's good and also just to speak to this truck circulation I do have truck circulation plans if you'd like to if you'd like to look at them here I can mark it as exhibit A3 just an example that Paul it's come up so we'll mark these exhibit A3 they are truck circulation exhibits two sheets one shows the loading area which obviously our architect will detail the operations of that room next to there but this what this truck turning template shows is an su3 box truck so a little bit larger than your largest U-Haul truck it shows it pulling forward into this area and then backing into this covered loading area this this enclosed loading area here so that's the intention for the largest truck that we see here obviously there'll be other smaller Vehicles that'll be able to maneuver a little bit more easily in this area but it does accommodate your largest moving vehicle that will save um and again it pulls straight in and backs in and then the second sheet of this exhibit shows the vehicles coming down and we've provided enough whiff in this driveway and also I want to just note that one of the tweaks we did make to the plan based on some of the the even before we received the grading comments is we eased the slope so prior to this this this exhibit and this this site plan revision it was a straight slope from the from the moment you entered all the way down until you made your turn we've now shortened that slope and lifted the garage just a little bit to allow for a nice flat area where this line is displayed but prior to you having to make that turn so the ease of that turning movement as well as the opening which our architect will show is sized for your largest vehicle the vehicle I'm showing on this plan is a Pak car in the in the model which is your largest SUV um and we feel that this plan and this access plan does work as part of this and we've looked to even ease that further because we saw the same concerns that your engineer and we're displaying tonight it was a little bit too sloped um so we've looked to address that so those are the two exibits I have for that we're happy to submit that to your to your board professionals and have that dialogue as well on that access yeah just mark my whatever yeah this is a we got a I would suggest we may ask for H clearance and a picle so we we may ask for a higher clearance I which I don't think will be honorous spr yeah certainly a lot that conversation uh did you want to continue with this sness on operations is so what uh well I think we we've addressed the engineers letter I don't know if there are any other comments or concerns we can go through each one of them Mr bright unless you're comfortable I don't know how you I can say comfortable with I haven't seen any you go through all theing we going to address them all changes so what are anything that you can address yeah there was nothing when we reviewed your letter as well as as well as the other letters received there was nothing in those letters we felt that we couldn't achieve and we couldn't address to your satisfaction obviously page one a is General called fa comments up B on page two site plan drawings they're saying they'll comply with everything is there anything in that Bob that needs further discussion at this point for you no I would point out that there's not a lot of engineering on this site because the building takes up you know a vast portion so we have the driveway in we have the loading area um glancing at the exhibit from here I'm not GNA be a to comment on that issues so I have a quick one 5 a just one of the points of many that I have is the applicant willing to consider a fulllength marquee structure along the north elevation instead of canopies five okay so 5A we eliminated actually chairman that actually was part and parcel to our uh those design waivers that I mentioned we had earlier no no I regardless of whether it's compliant or not is the applicate willing to consider a marquee instead of distinct canopies I think it's on the site in other words coverage you want to pull it out of this report we'll discuss it as a SE that's a it's a good point we'll speak to it in our Architect by the time we get to Mr Smith will speak to that um sorry go ahead Bob I gave you a breath to look oh why don't we just pick up why don't we pick up in section Paul B1 will comply sheet C1 that's uh uh just said title note correct yes so we comply there uh item two the're both item two and three relate to the the truck turning exhibits that we've that we've just discussed four will be architectural testimony five relating to the electrical Vehicles we've we are comfortable complying with that to the satisfaction action of your engineer same thing for six and seven um there's multiple comments on electrical vehicle we F we intend to fully comply with the state law and the comments of your engineer um shared parking arrangement I think we the chairman had said that we're going to get into that as we go through the application this evening in in in further detail especially as we get to the architecture we'll show you the structure of that parking um nine the setback distance of that access driveway along Easter po line I think we've we've talked about that we're going to talk about it more as we go through as far as these templates go um 10 that's the opening the curb line that we covered as far as the access to the neighboring lot um 11 12 13 um all of those are related to the frontage we're happy to comply with those 14 through 16 as well we intend to comply and we feel comfortable with being able to do so um the courtyard how do you comply with 16 so 16 was the one I was just going to comment on so what we are proposing currently in that courtyard is not commercial lighting or any down lighting like that it's all sort of architecturally themed baller and wallmounted lights low lighting that's meant for pedestrian comfort and not really for you know an illumination or or or or heavy use by like a commercial use so we can prepare an exhibit we can prepare a lighting plan that shows that um but it's all very low light levels for pedestrian Comfort rather than a commercial activity but to the comfort of the board and your engineer we can prepare a lighting plan yeah that that comment was basically the plan was saying we're going to prepare this when we go for a building permit and we thought that that should be on the plan should have yeah we can we can certainly provide that without issue and is it fair if I may is it fair to assume that the candle requirements would be abided by in that yes re set forth in Redevelopment yes uh 17 distance what does that mean distance what what do 17 17 I think there was a I think there was a a a call out or a dimension that may have been wrong I believe that that Dimension should be 16.1 feet I'm just looking at what I saw here but we intend to we we comply with the Redevelopment plan but one of our one of our called out values of the distance between the buildings was was um a typo as far as that 32.5 ft and the 16.1 would be compliant yes I believe everything is compli what is the separation so we know what 16.1 how compes yeah let me take a look off the top of my head I don't remember what that requir was anybody wants to help out oh okay that was the minimum distance between building and the area and bulk requirements the requirement is zero feet and we're providing 16.1 in the previous iteration we showed 32.2 but that was an incorrect mention it just question yeah it would have been compliant either way it's compliant either way but that that opening there is is larger is just a typo thank you 18 oh 18 is a good one to talk about so in the in the underlying zoning ordinance the height um the height requirements are um based on an average grade calculation so as part of the Redevelopment plan we went through the process of making that calculation and then discussing what that existing grade that average grade should be for this application so our application in the Redevelopment plan actually simplifies the definition of where the building height is and we essentially set a height um that we then worked off of and that's what these plans represent and you'll see that on the architecturals of where that height was chosen but this this comment is the predevelopment grade we went through that process and included a number for the elevation in the Redevelopment plan that then this plan is based off of and that elevation is based on the high side of the site um and that's what we worked off of so what what's number is it 408 yeah yes 408 was The Benchmark exactly planing 407408 I'm sorry I didn't um I don't know it look comping to me Paul's blocking you yeah that's the problem a lot of a lot of man sound attenuation I think they call that exctly 18 grading plan um there's several grading comments in in um in number 19 I think we'll be able to elaborate a little bit this in the architectural testimony as far as the elevations of the different features um the the patios the entrances to different features I think we'll walk through that and we'll kind of show how it intermingles but the intention is for this plan to be 8 compliant every that it is and will address any inconsistencies that your engineer had picked up in those comments 19 go from a to R yes and I have you good just just the one comment on that Courtyard area which not which letter I guess it would be oh thank you yes so we'll we'll again we'll provide some clarification on the grading plan the intention is to have positive pitch within that courtyard and then small drains that collect the runoff associated with it mainly in that Main in that main trunk that comes out um and we'll interconnect that with the storm water management system um but we're going to collect all of that runoff in there and we can detail that better I read the plan correctly it's kind of surrounded by either retaining walls or the building yes that's correct the courtyard that walking surface you see with the two circles in it that's essentially lower than the surrounding grade there's essentially a three-foot wall where we put some plantings and some planters and things like that to give some of that passive seating that we're talking about you also notice and I'll zoom in here there's some there's some dining areas that are provided and those are also encircled by essentially three foot stone walls or something of the like so it gives kind of an architectural feature as you go around there's there's essentially a grade change um as you go into some of these areas it gives that like we're trying to get with that passive SE and and give it some character so that's what we're doing there so all of that drainage that's associating there as well as in the landscaping area we're going to collect that put in the storm water management system and item M m&n will'll come back to that for loading item p u I agree that there seems to be a requirement for more detail for the terorist area which section P are we on 19 P page page six page six seating area seating area between yeah it's just nebulous in that area of the yes so I think our again I think our architect will detail how those different features will function as far as the elevation all the things he points out yes um so the point is okay you'll comply yes and uh Q item Q where is your intent that the retail establishments be entered from from the right of way right is there any other yeah so our our architect will speak to that because we don't have uh tenants identified yet so may VAR but there will be storefronts and uh Mr Smith will cover that chairman when we get to it so you're Enis them entering from the uh exterior corre of the building right that's right be some followup to demonstrate that yeah we'll we'll have followup testimony from terms of access 20 is typical utility connection comments meters beot yeah the hot box information we haven't and I'll I'll leave it to architect if we deter meter locations but certainly something that as we as we get further into this there'll be uh they'll be some conversations with the utility providers we're obviously going to put them in the uh The Logical locations that that make the most sense for the connections although it's not uncommon whether it's pscg or jcpnl sometimes they will tell us where well this is where these meters have to go Mr britley uh but we'll obviously work with them and that would be coordinated as well with your office there's an issue with enclosure and backl V well yeah typically um you should determine you know if you're going to have a internal backr event which we recommend because I don't see a place for a hot box anywhere yeah from that you discussed you had a discussion uh this is 20D you had a discussion with fire officials did you cover in those discussions overhead LS any concerns they may have had yeah I attended that meeting with the fire officials I don't remember the overhead wires being an issue or coming up but we can certainly coordinate that with them obviously we're going to we're going to work with them directly so that would be how you would address that yes okay I think D is the one thing I do want to make note of so we did have I mention it in my opening comments I'm only bringing it up bringing it up since you brought you raise the uh the Fire official comments uh we did receive a number of comments uh we are going to be enhancing some as uh of the design to address those comments uh really more architectural building aspects in terms of you know uh sprinkler sprinkler heads into interstitial uh spaces uh sheet rocking and so forth but we'll touch on that and we'll address it when we reach Mr Smith and his testimony and Bob you want uh in the I know it's arital to you want more detail on the St to yeah it's probably architectural but okay it's hard to determine what's going on with that parking structure yeah from this our architectural plan has more detail than the civils um did you get anything in number five D5 did you get anything with regard to Cellular RF radiation shielding for the tower which next to your unit chairman I'm sorry what section is that uh section d arital section five testimon which Outside Agency approval get anything not listed there did you get anything regarding the tower RF maximum human exposure I don't believe so at this time okay Mr chairman is is that with respect to a facility on the Masonic line the Masonic towers are loaded up there and so they're there was no problem as long as it was what it was commercial and so but now that you're putting people near it I would suggest that I it's going to be touchy and so but I would suggest that it's going to have to be shielded uh because the RF radiation is too too intense and too close to some of your units on your top floors right we we'll take a look at it yeah yeah it's it's a shot it's sudden so I I understand that I'm just saying something to think about it's a safety item we have a number of issues that are safety items other optimizations chairman on not not talking about the first one is traic ex but uh two group eight are we stipulating again just Rec confirming we're stipulating to fly comply with all the votes yes and there's going to be additional architectural testimony that will clarify some of the loading operations and things like that as far as how that room's used five all the Outside Agency approvals six the lot lurger seven the asilt the developers agreement Associated requirements correct all all in agreement Mr Warner just one comment on that E1 I did point out there was a traffic report submitted I'm not a traffic engineer did not r that is not something they can comply with no no AB I knew they had a tra I said other than E1 yeah if I wasn't clear myology and I know you have tra I don't know if what's if the board is of mindset to have a review by traffic engineer uh through engineering or otherwise but with respected that so well obviously it's whatever the board's pleasure is we do have a project here that has uh been zoned for this so um we are compliant with the number of units we're compliant with the uh the floor area um relative to commercial we're compliant with the parking um when the ordinance is adopted you assume you're going to have this level of traffic that's associated with it we will speak to it again I'll defer to the board I think we have the traffic engineer why we have speak one aspect to this the we development plan requires us a mdle of traffic you I'm sorry you mindar there's another aspect to this it's not just that I'm well aware of the dunk and dogs you know the traffic and everything that's associated with permitted use is something that you kind of work with but the Redevelopment plan specifically as for traffic report they've submitted it but one of the purposes of that was not just to get an handle on the levels of traffic but to identify potential improvements to intersections surrounding that maybe the responsibility of this development uh and it speaks to that in the development report so I would expect that the traffic engineer will will address that but sometimes you want your own eyes on it to see whether we properly identifi what might be needed there it's a Bo decision I understand what Mr is saying I'm just pointing out that there was more it was just not just measuring the level of service it was what do we need to do the intersection anything with traffic timing the lights and things of that nature that we need to adjust as a result of this I'm sorry just have to plug this in you need a moment I have to plug that in but yeah oh yeah okay okay we just take a moment you can also let us know in your fingers are about to fall off there something you guys didn't unplug these did you nothing we didn't move any it's a fresh Outlet over there yeah we just went to the one over here Denise so whatever happened they reset okay yeah I might have bumped that one double check are we good Denise we appear to okay great so I think it's about I just listen to what your statement is and summarizing in this sense of compliance and you know all this other stuff all right we're here to make sure that your plan has presented engineered and so is the best plan for burning bill and the public understood we also understand that as your business the the principles need to they're making a huge investment they need a certain return on in investment and they have a certain expectation of profits the town the burough is also your partner Financial partner very much in this so we're obligated to them as well however this design could be dramatically improve while retaining the financial characteristics in terms of units in terms of den you know the types of units and so forth and in terms of your investment to construct it and I'm asking you how do you want us to present you with the optimizations that can occur to make this plan of Maximum benefit to the Bernville public assuming we're holding your investment chairman I'm constraint to advise the public with your permission please uh uh withhold cheers booze anything uh this is a quasi judicial proceeding the applicant is presenting evidence to the board the board will decide the application there are criteria and standards that the board is well aware of to do so with the help of their professionals things that we can remain maintain Forum as if it were a court of law thank you chairman this is what I can say so we've got a we've got an application before you we've got a design it's really largely the same design that we've had uh since the Inception relative to the Redevelopment plan we will certainly take comments as we go we always hear your comments we take them back Etc uh you've heard from my engineer so far um I still have a traffic engineer I still have an architect we haven't even put up the architectural plans yet so I I would ask uh that we'd be permitted to proceive in that fashion um this is a project that has been years in the making we're here tonight and I do appreciate I know the public is here and everybody is interested we're interested in hearing comments uh and we'll respond to them accordingly uh but I I think that's my response uh Mr much is here if there are more architectural qu or I'm sorry engineering questions we can answer them lot of engineering suggestions and the architect I'm glad the architect is here right they will have architectural implications y understood the traffic engineer it's premature uh in terms of the optimizations potentially will significantly affect traffic in a good way but significant right okay but we are going to have our traffic engineer testify though not tonight why you were warned right no I'm weren't you warn I'm we did warn applicant right well there were there were discussions that we didn't necessarily anticipate concluding tonight uh and the app understand is the op which to proceed with all to bring all the witnesses and proceed as quickly as they could you know as efficiently as they could um and we we will not be hearing your traffic engineer tonight because our traffic engineer is not present at the moment um so so you have H no we have retained the traffic and Mr chairman I think I think if I may Mr chairman correct me if I'm wrong I believe the chairman was referring to a board member who might have a particular expertise like many board members have personal knowledge and expertise I do oh I know Mr sim yes worked with him in the past and I didn't foree that and you couldn't but no I didn't know and he'll have to review the whatever the point is and I do want you to confer with your client there's a substantial list of optimizations relevant to engineering relevant to design with implications for architecture some of which one of which you've seen in the hpac letter right um and I I want to know if as long as we maintain return on investment for this project are they willing to entertain I I'm not organizations well I don't I don't chairman I don't know what the optimizations are so we're presenting it so you want us to proceed there's a long list Mr chairman if I may uh the the uh if I understand correctly first of all and the applicant could speak to this there's a Redevelopment plan uh the applicant is representing that they are for better phrase substantially in compliance with the plan yeah uh the that governs the Mr Z as the planner could Ser the weigh in as well I'm not one um but just an attorney the they uh but they are complying substantially complying with the plan now if I understand the chairman correctly there may be uh considerations and requests from the board with respect to various aspects of the plan uh if I understand Mr Wala on behalf of his clients he's saying he will listen to those they will take those into consideration and they will respond we don't know what if I may what the what the requests and and concerns and considerations may be from the board and others and we don't know yet what the responses will be um but uh uh there is a um there are parameters uh as always for the board uh and uh Mr W can and let us know on behalf of the applicant if at any point he thinks the board might be exceeding the authority and the jurisdiction of the board given that the zoning has already been set forth in the Redevelopment plan that said uh the board certainly can ask for reasonable accommodations and certainly the applicant has the right to stipulate to those reasonable considerations correct thank you do you want to them or you you're okay with us are you okay with us communicating to you the optimizations that for your consideration so you can communicate them to me now uh with another witness um I'm not sure how you 10 I'm not trying to be difficult no no I not an easy question and no and and listen this is this has been a collaborative effort that's the way the Redevelopment law works and we are certainly we certainly view this as a partnership uh we've got a design I'm happy to hear those comments however what whatever they may be you um we'll consider them we'll look at them uh just don't know what they are yeah you can they don't know yet right I understand all right and if they're not as long as the key is there are a couple of goals like I said there's whe the berners public may want there's what the council wants there's what your investors want the partners and and it's a delicate balance to try to adjust a proposal that's compliant um to create a win-win win situation there will as with any change request if you embrace the change there will be adjustments to various documents and plans and so forth well Mr chairman while we have the engineer here and you have ideas as to the optimization you're referring to why don't those be presented from the engineering point of view based on a testimony with questions and and expectations so that we can have a dialogue and if all we get to is engineering fine so the the applicant and your engineer has the the benefit of of your thoughts ands thoughts on what what optimization we're talking about sure uh because we we're beyond the point of a concept point we have a fil application we have a Redevelopment agreement uh we have a designated developer um this a little different than your basic Zone because this is a a negotiated and and collaborative process between the governing body beev developer and the board so while we have the engineer here why don't we have that dialogue and treat it like Q&A and why can't we do this and is this possible let's get that out on the table U and how long it takes it takes and I like the word he used it's a concept document well it's not a concept it's not this is an engineered it's not we need to do this in the context of a public hearing and and again to reiterate what Mr Zeo said earlier the the the um the zoning has been established uh and the uh the board uh can make requests but the board can't necessarily ignore the zoning that's been established um and there are parameters under the law uh but certainly I suspect the applicant is true to their word and they want to do as best they can for the buau so perhaps it'll be amenable to to at least some if not more than some of these optimization requests yeah we will certainly consider them okay here what you have to as as I go um the creative say we prefer the architect answer you know that that question direct you can sit [Music] down okay I'll take notes if we want to go through anything okay oh I meant that's okay um once again the I'll reaffirm we're trying to do a win-win-win situation um and so these are suggestions for how things could be changed and improved and optimized um there are a couple of overarching ones that um the first one of which is if all the financials of the application can be maintained are you willing to consider a 15ot additional setback of the Morristown Frontage if all the other aspects of the project can be maintained we'll we'll take it under advisement chairman uh that's not part of the Redevelopment plan and the design that was just in terms of the overall layout but nothing is going to be okay I I understand what you said it's not a question of what you said there's a concern that there's for instance not enough public space once people see it in on a concept drawing their perception is that is not what the vision was and the vision there is an opportunity for you to support a 15t setback of the above ground structures for the most part um and adjust the entire plan maintaining the financial Integrity of the project the loading zone you're compliant with because that was part of the Redevelopment plan was to allow you to be compliant as opposed to the Burnal ordinance for loading zones the loading zone is going to be very problematic for burner to build residence the way you have it and this is a big one so pay really close attention you haven't heard our traffic testimony though that I would just I would suggest we' read it okay so very well Char we can get into that later um I'm going to suggest that this is significant that you in fact make the courtyard a public access space that you use the art it is a 14t clearance in it and that you in fact adjust your vision of a private Court you not available to Bernardsville other Bernardsville the public and you make it into an area that is still has elements of you know the um Landscaping elements but has not only a loading zone but kurn capabilities for a loading zone and also has just ada8 parking in it uh to help just justify the use um I'm sorry 88 parking where 88 parking you would have some paring spaces in the courtyard change the concept of the courtyard right today the cour is considered a private space for the use of the tenants there are lots of many of these are related and they solve interrelated opportunities they created inter related opportunities this will this would solve your loading zone challenges and the there is one caveat um that is if the do will let you have continue to have the cuts in that property today which is where your arch is basically to allow that type of access to it the additional setback gives you also increased line of sight makes things safer makes easier easier navigation at these access that's really significant another significant and safety is to take where you have your primary elevators he knows where the primary elevators are and relocate them into a more conventional spot for a development like this which is to relocate them into the courtyard side of your Southeast interior and we haven't even spoken to where these elevators are located yet all stair the stairs were mentioned Mr chairman I may solid again as I understand what the chairman is doing is the chairman is uh making requests in some cases might even be making these requests in advance of hearing test the whole board from your engineer and your architect which might actually give them an opportunity to hear these requests in advance which might actually be helpful for the process so that they can address the the applicant's position as to why or why not they are doable that understood I'm sorry CH no it's okay this is unusual this is an exceptional application it's truly exceptional it's very important and and we just want to do the best we can so I'm trying to do the best we can um the suggestion is that Southeast interior corner where you have um you know like a two-bedroom whatever obviously four stories would be to move to relocate your entrance way there to take that ground level make it your Lounge mail room elevator Bobby and trash shoot down to and trash shoot down to to ll1 which would be where you could actually pick trash up we would like we we honestly would like bigger elevators for our safety perspective we don't want small the minimum size elevators we want pretty Dy elevators um for safety um we would like more retail space than the minimum it's just somewhat distressing to the vitalization uh Vision that the retail space is not expanded significantly so there are a couple of issues on the retail space one is where you've got your loading zone eliminates a retail space opportunity and the loading zone creates actually a challenge for that that space in other words in terms of of vitalization it's a dead location and it's one of the items that makes that loading zone Choice um problematic for the community we would like I understand it and it really not clear is the fitness club private yes yeah that that is what not it's not a commercial that is what my expect would have been the recommendation is that you on the second floor or third or fourth above the Lobby near the elevator is you put your Fitness club there for your residents so they have easy access to the elevators from their units and the recommendation is optimization is that you take your Fitness space that you've got and make it retail how we like but increase the retail uh space for it so two additional retail spaces one is the fitness current fitness center and the other one is the service m space that's currently adjacent to the um loading dot area those are fairly large ones um there about 20 items that can be we think optimized one of the safety related ones is that along the and I you may have adjusted this it's possible along the southerly elevation on the tracks you've got in the lowest left hand corner we've got a bump out for TW bedroom apartment uh that bump out needs to be brought back for safety purposes there has to be access along the tracks under those egress windows for all those bedrooms that are there there's an easy way to do it to once again preserving the financial Integrity of the proposal and the the easy way is to um Annex the space that you can see on that chart there that's used for the trash shoots and for the elevator and while retaining the stairs the stairs are appropriate for all levels to exit that's part of that another major suggestion and this is one of the keys to keeping you financially uh hole for which I want to hear engineering and Architectural uh response I I would suggest that the southeast section could be built upon that the units in that that over the driveway and in The Greenery that's there if we if we give up if you give up the frontage with a setback the unit space the floor space and the units can be reconfigured over that entryway to recapture the finances and maybe even approve improve it once again it's fairly complex um those are really the big items I got a lot of other ones but um another big one is there's a lot of and you've seen this with hpac uh the impact of this project is visually massive and the setback not only increases the public space but P perception wise it reduces the visual impact because the frontage of the building is set back a bit the visual impact of the mount ay section which is your lower left hand corner there should be enhanced by eliminating and this is a heavy lift the bump out units basically everything that's in that pumpout section where you have your service Dock and and you have four units on top of it those should basically all be uh eliminated and recovered somewhere else in the units such that that exposure which is very high I mean it's five stories high so that that exposure is set back as well and there's of course the benefit of some public space and access there but it's ex it's extremely imposing on the mount Ary side um and that can be done so um let me think of other things that are significant there are those those are the really large the big pieces of of how to uh optimize uh this proposal point of burnard Bill there are a number of safety issues that will need to be addressed from our perspective we'd like you to address them and Mr chairman I apologize for interrupting but again in In fairness the using the term we and our uh my understanding is these are issues you're raising with respect to concerns you have with respect to suggested optimizations for consideration by the applicant again there's a body of law that governs this board uh and uh and Redevelopment attorney uh uh is not here at least this evening uh and uh well I can speak to it to a degree while planner Mr Zeo could speak to it to a degree uh the Redevelopment attorney may be able to speak to it to an even greater degree as to what Authority this board under these circumstances has and what Authority this board under these circumstances they do not have this board does not have I don't think we have authority you have you you have the authority to make requests yeah yes and and we don't have any enforcement we have no mandate we have no counterveiling variances to offset leverage and other words so all this can be is we need to do the right thing for ber right and the right thing goes beyond conceptual drawings that have not necessarily been thoroughly vetted by the public by more by us and the statement that that Council made basically said don't worry it'll all be handled in the planning board okay now that may have been right or wrong okay based on yes they're what quote what leverage do we actually have legally all we can do is essentially offer you suggestions offer to keep financially whole for an improve in our vision and improved project that still maintains luxury still and um provides a better outcome for Burnville residents we want to make sure you finish theal we do not want to jeopardize the council's partnership with you but if you want me to say it again no we don't have a way of saying you're going to do this we can point out that maybe there's some safety issues that you'd want to address you know how are how's fire going to be handle we have emerging legislation that's not in force yet that would say you had to do various things um related to climate change and uh safety there's all that but there's no there's no way for us to essentially compel or withhold approval of your application so that put that's a little bit awkward for us we normally do have someone who has got something you know even if it's one thing it's like wow I'd really like you to not make me put all my leg PES underground well okay in that case could you do this change the lighting on the Ballard and the something we don't have that leverage we only have The Leverage of PAB ation Goodwill and and your stated objective to deliver a luxury high quality project so I I don't know if I can I would remind go ahead that uh under the plan for the loading docum loading V that is as far as the loading drone go is that the plan sply require why is that be the satisfaction of the planning board so we do have some control over sir as I said the board has the authority it has and it doesn't have the authority it doesn't have and but but I think the chairman address that juston the applicant can certainly make their own arguments and um that this is new territory made uh for a lot of us in terms of being in this well prepared situation with optimization opportunities and um we could conduct this in a slightly different way if you like it was too it was too far along as you've all described in order for us to do what we would normally do which would have the to have work meetings you know where we would go through it you were just you're so far down the path that it was not an option for us to do it I we would we wouldn't compel you to do that anyway it's a purely an applicant's uh initiative to do that um our the one recommendation optimization is to put in your northeast corner if you you set back the faade yeah the front in your northeast corner to put an elevator there that goes from uh lower level one it's actually the mid level as you know your parking garages it's hard to see on these drawings but it's structured as you come in at the lower level and then you ramp down to the mid level like a mezzanine sort of and then you ramp down to that level two at the lowest level it it has to be that way um no complaints it's just that that is a design that pretty much has to occur we're I'm suggesting this was actually my was um that we address the segregation of retail from tenants by coming down the access to driveway going into lower level one making a sharp right hand turn to a down slope not an UPS slope to a Downs slope to the mid level which is not a big deal in terms of just change about how you rearrange how you're using your ramps such that retail parking could be on the ramp down to the mid level and the mid level and then at the mid level before you ramp onto um down to ll2 you could have at least said this point sorry you could have Beyond this point it's tenants only so it it helps solve that traffic segregation issue so that retail people are not just running around all down L to uh I know you said oh actually we're comfortable with it in terms of the operations and we have the same Arrangement elsewhere I'm not sure what the issue is the issue is to keep it is in fact to keep it separate so the retail spaces or retail spaces it's also such that um there's an after hours delivery cap needs to be a capability they need to go down there they need to deliver to that location after hours when the courtyards closed essentially there are what this type of of renter you've already made a strong case for they're very different than what one might think normal renters are and you made the case in terms of the reduced parking commitment you've made the case oh these are these are different they're they're going to be ubering everywhere they're going to um and they will be doing a lot of delivery food deliveries so forth pickups and so forth one way to handle that is to allow deliveries to occur into the courtyard into the new Lobby another way is when the courtyard you can shut the courtyard down for the privacy of your tenants at some hour at which time now we to the delivery guys go where did where do they bring your midnight pizza and there needs to be an answer we're not going to go to the loading do that's for sure they basically would go down to L1 they need a short-term parking area there and you got to figure out how the pizza gets delivered you know up to you know they come down pick it up what do they do it's very different than um oh here's the on Street you don't have an on street they can't stop on the on the street and walk in into the win something so it's through your consideration I think you you could do it you get more parking spaces if you do it a certain way there's a way to gain more parking more parking is good even though yeah you're required to have a certain amount of parking you have 10 more places that's good too [Music] um it's an optimization it's something that you might not have thought of that you could look at that that's a good example of something hey you know G what if we did did it that way there there's some issues now if you made that rightand turn you'd go like kind of upper ramp and then the ceiling's dropping on you and I mean those kind of things too that when you really look at a walk through of that location [Music] um other safety issues are something to think about this is Deluxe this is you're going to lose power to this to this complex it will happen not if it will so what are your tenant your future perspective the Lots upscale tenants expecting to happen when power is lost to this facility for an extended period of time days if you're lucky days we're we're very low down in Bernard on the tier of re re restoration of of power downtown it's like a week up in the mountain it's three weeks to get P back you are going to lose power we're not going to be able as a town to to support 180 people 200 people now they may just own this and they're in Florida you know whatever where are these people going to go when they have no power so a thought just think about what you're going to do mind you plan requires you to provide for emergency power I know that wasn't addressed but there yeah we haven't gotten to that in testimony but we'll address it when when we get to our architect so think about it you've got space that's not designated that's in your lower southwest corner it's just there think about how you could do a make ready for emergency power or how you can implement it and if you implement it how many kilowatts do you want to implement and how do you structure there are engineering solutions that are possible but it will be immediately uninhabitable when you lose power and all people that are there are going to have to go somewhere we have to think about this planning as a planning board we now have to think about this because you're upscale it's it's a potentially a selling point we could be the lemons and lemon Ade um think about that and think about okay where's the water coming from here water is coming from a well which is electric and it's going to run for a while but then there's no well water what are you doing then and you can set a horizon you say look well it's up to you it's an opportunity to optimize okay well I think you've given us a lot of things to think about chairman I think so I think that's the essence and maybe it's sending you letter you may decide what the most efficient way to provide optimization suggestions to you I think I think we've hit the big ones hpac had a big one um which is the group and the whole idea is how do we bring the p with good taste how do we bring the perception of the height of the building down and as Dan Lincoln suggested you can do it by changing your architectural roof design and it will be perceived to be a lower rout especially in the dramatically High areas it's all it's good that here's a different roof you could you could use Skylight you could do all sorts of GRS stuff okay so one other one other Sugg um they're a lot but one of them in particular the con the concept plan has a Terrace in it and a tower essentially on the northeast corner and yet it doesn't have uh the canal do you mean the the engineered plan the engineer yeah the plan site plan the application is for the site plan so I'm this plan this plan okay if you well whatever if you were to scroll back to the roof you would see that this plan has I CH had a terce set really high really essentially dangerous you remove I do not yeah I don't believe we have any dangerous conditions here chairman on any aspect of the design and In fairness you've not heard testimony to to reach that conclusion so um I'm not sure what the point is uh the point is that okay with the roof line with the revised roof line with a low profile upper roof basically to remove all right so well chairman this is what I'll say I think we you've given us a lot of suggestions and recommendations we'll C certainly take it under advisement this is the plan that we have presented that's part and parcel to the Redevelopment plan we're obviously not going to finish this tonight uh and we'll take those we'll take these comments under consideration and suggestions and so forth um my engineer is here he testified I don't know if any board members have questions or members of the public have questions which would be a normal protocol relative to presenting the application and going through um I certainly um allow yeah questions our professional and I think our court reporter needs her fingers to rest for about five minutes chairman so we can take a a break and the board is amenable to that we can 5 minute break we can take a break until um 20 or 10 thank you thank you sir toing we are back on the record Mr chairman thank you okay yeah thank you chairman uh at this point uh we're actually going to just ask to adjourn the uh the proceedings uh we're going to take your your comments and thoughts and suggestions into consideration we're going to have a transcript made so we can look over these items uh and we would ask to be uh little scheduled for uh for the next regular board meeting which I think is in two weeks yes terrific so we could do that with no further notice required uh we are going to have our traffic engineer back next time so I don't know whether the board is hiring a traffic consultant I know Mr simoff I do know he's a traffic consultant but he doesn't sit in that capacity he's a board member so uh so we we expect that we'll be able to provide our traffic testimony and get into many of the points that were raised here today how the loading dock works and and various items how the garage works and the testimony that you've not yet had the opportunity uh to hear from the applicant um although we understand we've received your comments and thoughts in that regard so um with that said uh and and I will State for the record as well Mr mut is still under oath he will be back here our engineer public hasn't had an opportunity to question I don't think the board had a full opportunity to uh to question our engineer on his testimony tonight for that matter either so he will be back and will'll return uh here in two weeks time we look forward to before wej Mr chairman if I may because the issue was raised with respect to a traffic engineer if the board wanted a traffic independent traffic engineer to assist with the process or not uh whether it's necessary or not uh the uh I don't know what the answer is for the board the board will decide and uh but since the issue is raised uh a determination is going to have to be made at some point yes or no which suggesting we were to do it tonight so he's available when they if it's the pleasure of the board uh it should be you know addressed and and certainly to start all over again uh the next time and traffic is testified to and people haven't decided yet whether or not they want an expert I you know that determination should be made soon right and we he is going to be testifying uh in two weeks time so but nojust the reports the report right it's been correct that's it yep so the question is does the board wish to retain an engine a traffic engineer and if so could address if they want and and do it I my preference would be to ask how he's the one that has the expertise in terms of whether he fills the report that's been filed merits the board getting its own traffic engineer that that would seem to be the most cral use of our sorry last that would be the most pretty use of our resources because if we are going to have a traffic report um and riew of their analysis ready for the next meeting why don't we decide what we want to have an expert and then uh leave to you the decision after toward the house whether to go forward with the um with the attention of an expert if that is proceed appropriate it's the board's discretion to determine which experts they feel they need to assist the board and making determinations uh and the applicant free to address you know but uh in any way per they they want but uh the fact of the matter is generally if the Board needs an expert uh it is paid by out of the esro by provided by the app what I'm suggesting is that we authorize it tonight but not but authorize Bob not to go for with it if he talks to how and determines that how's sufficient to provide that expertise do you have any objection to that process listen I think it's the board's discretion uh if they want to hire a professional uh for for a conforming Redevelopment project if that's what you want to do uh just we would just ask if you're going to have an expert that they be here uh at the next meeting and we'll have done their reviews and I don't know if it's going to be somebody from uh from Mr brightly's uh firm or whomever uh we would ask uh uh that we be provided with notice we going toer to Hal and the Hal's going to say you should have one we'd like to know who it is and be able to inter face with them this is a straightforward uh traffic study uh for a conforming plan so are you okay with the board K suggestion I'm sorry I couldn't hear you all right I was asking internally our members are okay with Jeff's suggestion yes I am okay and St and uh ask expert does Bosell have an expert that could serve for that capacity uh they do yes it's been a you know it's been a while since this board has needed a traffic expert so it's really just a matter of reviewing their report I think and commenting on it and if they need to be here in two weeks that's short notice so so I have my assign can you take that find find out I can yeah I can super over all right thank you um I appreciate it actually well of course I appreciate appreciate the CH and I'll try to get you other suggestions well other suggestion yeah we we need to do it here right right okay yeah and I need to know whose suggestions they are are the suggestions on the entirety of the board I'm try and understand that but just think about it and you don't need to answer um so yes I just want to make sure we make an announcement you have plenty to digest I understand it just a it may not be obvious how to keep you financially whole but you we're we're focused on on presenting a project in the project that was designed and conceived with a Redevelopment and so forth and uh it's been a lot of time coming in here uh with something that fully conforms where we are not asking for any variants really we know and it is we realize that uh that's a lot different than what our objective is we we understand we understand the key that everybody ends up we hope winning for such a critical initiative and we want to be sure that that it's a premier project we want to be sure that's part of the win-win win we want to be sure it's it's [Music] profitable um and and really reference so but once again I appreciate that so so I think we just need an announcement of an adjournment flush out the traffic issue from the board's perspective what the board wanted to do so I guess we have a work in progress to see if there's a traffic engineer available for the next meeting corre uh and to review the report in the interim correct and uh it seems that's the pleasure of the board so we appreciate that the applicant understands it and that's what the Board needs uh and that's what the board will do uh the uh so the announcement as I understand it will be carrying this matter without further notice uh to uh please give me the date uh Denise date meeting 202nd yeah Thursday February 22 2024 uh 7:30 p.m. in the same location uh in pursuant of the law the applicant does not have to give us further that is the further notice that is the notice to to the public uh and uh the I don't believe we need an extension of time to act um but so we're C that's that's the we may actually probably should get one there are no baranes this has beened okay extension of time February y end of the month of February yes thank you Council and if you could just send us a a writing email letter is fine that's fine we'll do okay thank you very much everybody thank you see you in two [Music] weeks sorry Mr still on the I know many how many is that app so nice to see you thank you all right so we have pending application review pending applications other matters we've got equinet yes no they're not sched yet they're not they gave us an extension of time until sorry I can't hear you I don't want to shut the door it's an open public but maybe people can be quiet move down they're if they don't want to stay if doesn't come in at the next meeting application yeah I think do we have to formalize the denial of no no here here Years thank you I want I did want to address that the the um my understanding is as of now we have a time to act extension uh to February 29 we have one more meeting as we're all aw before that extension what I would recommend to the board to recommend or direct uh Denise to do is to contact applicants councel and find out whether they intend to proceed on the 20th or at any time shortly thereafter uh and in which case we can decide whether to accept an further extension of time or uh uh at a certain point and it's not Quantified in the law it's reasonable uh the board can decide more more appropriately the applicant may want to withdraw the application without prejudice that they're not going to proceed without prejudice meaning they can come back it's no Prejudice but uh uh uh they should not clog up the board's calendar so to speak inde um I won't determine you know the board can determine when it's time to to to but it's been too long on calendar but what I can also do though after Denise contacts the applicants council is you can encourage them to talk to me if there's any questions uh and if they they want to extend their time to act uh and we could talk about it the next meeting how much longer uh we wish to have them extend if they don't if they don't reply we have to deny it at the next application no I know what you're getting at a denial so there's not an automatic approval and I expect they'll respond before the 29th I think or 20 the me the 22nd the uh their Council has been fairly responsive in my opinion and I guess the as well so I don't think we have to worry about that but we're on top of it do do we them any respon they sent the letter right the that was them right that was EET right that sent the letter to us about their disappointment in it the whole explanation they explained the whole history of the application okay and we we're in receipt of that all right and was there supposed to be any action that we needed to take to them basically they have to decide whether they want to proceed with the application or not I short answer no there but we did receive that they just it was I'll make sure that in addition to Denise speaking with applican Council as I said I'm going to speak to applican council so not only with respect to the extension but any of the concerns the bottom line is we're is like a court uh if they want to if they want to appear before they can if they want to change their application or if they want withdra yeah now I did know what they were asking for in a sense they were they just the letter just explained everything they gone on and why they thought this and why they thought that I think rather than talk about I'm talking about right yeah no I'll I'll I'll I'll get the letter and uh but again proed first of all subbly we're not going to discuss the matter but no but procedurally uh the uh I the next meeting proed we we'll we'll we'll get confirmation whether they're proceeding or not and whether they're going to extend the time to act or not you know whether they're gonna ask for withdrawal without prejudice or not we'll get all that resolved in advance of the 20 second right which is the the end I just wanted to know if we were obligated to respond no obligation to the letter but but my conversations with Council will in effect respon of the whole thing okay let's see and resor let's say incomplete right so number two by Angela cetta and then revisit review of Parks and Recreation master plan get that schul even everything that's going on the agenda right now it's little problematic given what's going on we're busy okay we'll figure out okay that's all right yeah we were just asked to place it back on the agenda okay so now any surviving visitor you have a second chance to uh discuss anything not related to the agenda okay have a good night nice to meet I need toar I won't swear Carrie Hazelton 3979 Brook um I just want I'm sorry is it Carri or Harry Carrie k e r r y thank you yeah Hazelton h a s e l t sorry and I'm sorry your address again 397 mind book gr thank you my note taping has gotten a little slower as the night is not that's understand uh I just wanted to you know we got to the point where we scheduling for the next meeting on February 22nd at 7:30 and I just wanted to let the board know that there were a lot of people that were driving around looking for parking tonight to get into this meeting to attend um and I got here 15 or 20 minutes early and there were only a couple spots left so just wanted to float the idea of possibly seeing if we could get a larger venue or place with more parking for the next meeting that was all thank you different there different things you know like creating more space would be like Oh Park in the can we get permission to park in the fire house parking lot or something notice park across the street maybe some kind of escort across oh parking in our mine and our applicant Yeahs you can't change the place the meeting pleas there there were also efforts to find alternative locations that were uh unable to yeah without the without the option of um virtual um attendance and you know input we lose out on some people they can't all right maybe maybe they can look into parking options I think Denise heard that and look into that what can be done from the B should let the parking study group be aware of the unusual event as far probably wouldn't think of that is it Johanna whinger Washington Corner Road I just wonder we could we have microphones the council has microphones and that be nice if everyone could be heard right there no I think she means microphones for the board members and for the board professional ific with perhaps one exception because if we took a vote I don't know anybody we your we got our anti- canceling earphones on there you go there you go do they even exist Does this system even exist microphones on your when the council always I a simple wired like to speaker set up but you know maybe for a public commenter but it wouldn't apply rather Mr chair experts Mr chairman rather than a dialogue at this point maybe inquiry be made with the chair's with the board's permission to the buau to see if microphones can be available for one or more of the following the board members the witnesses testifying the board professionals with the exception that we are all aware of uh and and the members of the public when they speak can utilize the the microphone that the witness is using if we can't get an extra one there got to be a bural counil open machine all right so that's I'm not us in the com we're ask we're gonna ask Denise we're gonna ask the um Anthony or whatever about what the council uses yeah I will I will but the interesting thing is he's the one that showed me this and said that this is what they do so now I'm really confused let's go back and try to figure out if could get microphones to amplify people's voices it's not too difficult to request see if you could be accomodated we have another member of the she 7 Chilton just two quick things uh one to follow up with um when why did the schedule change from am I mistaken that it was originally we're going to go back to the hybrid and then now it's just I thought the last time we met in December we you um it was going to go back to the hybrid after the incident and now it's not so I was just wanting to I I I don't know take the time here when I don't it's public medum the the I don't know if it was ever ever de first of all by hybrid I'm assuming you mean you could also speak Zoom because because there's different types of yes oh but you're talking about for the public being able to speak also zoom and in person both yeah correct okay that is a a what we refer to now is as a hybrid I was not aware of any decision made by the board uh or any authorization for the buau to do a hyri uh so I don't I think we wanted this application but we wanted to be sure that we got last year's and all the continuing apps done conventionally you know but that the new app Prett AR I think we at least promised to look into it yeah right I don't know well I had in mind not the way we ended up was YouTube with live stream no comment no I I I think what we end I think what we ended up was for the balance for all matters were already noticed so we didn't have to re notice them right we would do in person only but going forward in the E of the year we would at least look into the possibility of doing hybrid meeting in which there was actual public participation in the room and also via Zoom that's what I remember now for for hearings as well for hearings as well well again that that can and if I understand correctly then there was not a commitment to do that uh to look into it um and uh that matter I guess it can continue to be looked into uh there are pro you know there there are issues and cases out there with respect to the difficulties of trying to do hearings different from public comment in a governing body meeting in fact there's a whole set of different regulations under the protocols for handling remote proceedings uh and the most difficult is the hybrid uh because uh everyone who is participating remotely and everyone who is participating in person has to literally be able to hear and see everyone and everything that's going on uh uh uh in order to have equal access if you will to to the process so uh that that's a policy decision to be made who makes that what's the council doing by the as I understand it the board can make a policy decision but the resources are provided uh by the municipality by the buau uh and uh and a policy decision that is made is going to have to take into consideration in my opinion at least the resources and the impact those resources have on the ability to uh ensure due process under the state federal Constitution to be able to participate remotely the same way people are participating in person and vice versa okay uh so and including gauging credibility of witnesses Etc it becomes difficult uh so those are just things for the board uh to consider given the resources that uh may or may not be available to the board to utilize to try to enhance the likelihood that such quasi judicial proceedings can take place and ensure the due process of everyone that's what they say in the regulations let me ask a question is a different rule for Council it is for oh it's absolutely B literally that's what I was saying understand that but I I also thought that we had talked about or you had talked about it came up that if you were going to present you had to be here of course and so anyway and the second quick thing was could you help I was confused because I thought that mayor Kos had hired the traffic study team is that just for the council or is that shared is that not shared with the planning board she she mentioned that in her um traffic and parking wasn't it the whole to not just I think Steve would have to traffic and parking I don't I don't know I I'd have to inquire but maybe the bureau had a traffic expert advol in the Redevelopment process but I don't know if they did or they didn't the planning board doesn't have the planning board at least as of yet has not retain a traffic as you heard it appears as if we will okay thank you all right the two might want to wait a minute thank you no EX session no executive [Music] session okay then we're Jour thank you very much