and burn bams I'm sorry I didn't I didn't start typing do I have to put that put any of the statement oh okay this link will also be available on the agenda for each meeting which is posted on the bur website b.org and on the burall public bul board at least 48 hours prior to meetings notice of these changes has also been emailed to the burners of news and Courier News by posting a copy on the bur website and by filing a copy with Municipal CL all on January 16th 2024 it's the intention of the board not to continue any matter past 11:00 PM at any regular or special meeting of the board unless a motion is passed by the members and presid to extend to a later specified power time and the same shall be announced at the opening of each meeting in addition the board is not intend to begin a new hearing after 10: p.m. nor begin testimony of a new witness after 10:30 any hearing conducted by the board is a Cy judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision the cor appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all [Music] times call Mr DeMarco present Miss Gardner absent Miss Geller present Mr Graham here Mr horz here Mr McQueen here Mr Sim here Mr Walden here and Mr zaro here thank you we have I'm sorry can I get that one more time the roll call is on transcript or anoun the meeting minutes it's on the agenda yeah the April 11th minute were on okay any comments on April 11 I have question about the minutes the minutes now become very pleas well that was done primarily for this particular application because the hearing length is so long we do if I may Mr chairman and vice chairman we do have transcripts right yes correct provided so uh this might help okay it has it's just okay after this one we need to agree that we'll go back to the format when we don't have transcript we don't have transcript absolutely all right any any comments on uh take a motion for April 11 I'll move all in favor okay minutes for June 27 it was it was an email that I sent right and but the transcrip was part of the official minutes right well yes but I can't take that yes it's yes it's the sum it's the cover page essentially and it's the transcri that represent all in favor I'm sorry second any oppos n pass no Communications I mean I see there's a brand new planner but is anyone here to discuss anything with the planning board that's not related to this application to the application the agenda tonight you get a second chance okay no business no business new business um we need to review and appr the bills Mr DeMarco yes Miss G yes Mr Graham yes Mr rowi yes Mr McQueen yes Mr sim yes Mr walon yes Mr yes have an agenda item here for extension of time oh my apologies that not been pulled off from the last agenda okay that was easy okay so now the main event we're public hearing um and we are hearing one application tonight it's a continuation of adval of Bernardsville LLC which is also the Palmer application and Mr chair we have one refusal you're welcome wait until we we do still have seven members all qualified uh uh up to date if you will in the event we complete the matter this evening uh but all can hear the matter so we have more than a sufficient fund and we uh in terms of the progress s this meeting we are at the we're at the public comment for the transcript uh the but but may the applicants Council can confirm s yes I hi good evening everyone John which is Scala on behalf of AR Bernardsville pleasure to be back this evening appreciate the board carrying our last meeting date uh we were La we last appeared before you on June 27th uh that was act actually our fifth public hearing so we're back tonight it is our sixth public hearing with respect to this application uh as Council indicated uh we did complete our case at the last meeting in June uh you heard the testimony of our project architect we've made a number of addition modifications uh based on comments that have been offered by the board and some concerns uh increased the setback out along marown Road as well as on the back side of the building made some architectural changes eliminated that Tower element uh uh as you may recall uh we discussed a number of additional comments stipulations uh one comment had been raised regarding uh from the environmental Commission in the garage we agreed to uh install an oil water separator to address uh anything uh any oils Etc that that may come off of vehicles in the in the garage covered a lot of territory uh we completed our case uh board actually extended the time that night uh and we wrapped up uh with our Witnesses closing testimony uh really we are left with public comment uh we do Reserve our right uh to provide any rebuttal you know based on any comments that may be offered uh I will uh after public comment offer a very brief closing statement uh we have made a number of stipulations throughout you know going back to the first date in terms of conditions compliance with uh various comments and reports and things uh I've actually provided Mr Warner uh with a running list of uh what we believe the stipulations are that we've agreed to over the course of the hearing so I'm sure we'll talk about those later in the evening if I may interrupt Mr chairman for the record Mr Warner had his own list and his list was longer but my list or your list I think my your list was long his list was longer so anyway uh but ultimately the board's list is what matters correct so all that being said uh I think we're really just at to point a public comment thank you so in uh I gu let me you explain it you know explain rules public audience certainly the uh uh this is the time for public comment if this is a quasi judicial proceeding as the chair mentioned at the outset uh so uh to analogize to a court the applicant like a PL that has rested um of the public are not only providing comment but it's more than that as the weight of testimony and that's why I swear you in because we want you to have the ability not just to comment but to have the weight of testimony for everything you say and show uh so that is part of the constitutional right process ofation I'm sorry can you um constitutional right of due process and confrontation both of the state and federal Constitution so is a qu judicial proceeding is pursu to the minicipal land open public meetings at c um each person uh who's making public comment while you may have given your name and address before please give your name and address again I will switch you in frankly I may have sworn one or two of you in during the course of the questioning uh to be prudent when certain comments were made there's no harm if I swear you in again so bear with me rather than try to figure it out if you were swor or or not I'll swear you in again and you make public comment with the weight of testimony on all matters relevant to this application um if you happen to have anything you want to show an exhibitor and the like while I don't know that any would provided in in advance um but if you do have any let us know we'll address it uh with applicat Council copies or what have you uh and uh you know you have the right to present not just verbal oral testimony but also documentary testimony should be so desired uh when the public comment period is over which essentially you will let us know and there's no further public comment uh and there may or may not be a time constraints which the chair and the board have the ability through case law to have reasonable time constraints that's up to the chair uh and the board um then when you are done uh uh when all public comment is complete uh the applican as he stated he reserves the right to have a bottle just like it were in court uh and to make any further comments he also has the right to cross-examine to ask questions of anybody who provides testimony just like everybody had an opportunity to ask questions of each and every witness put on by the app um part process Constitution the uh when he is done with any rebuttal uh and apparently there are additional stipulations if I'm not if I heard them correctly uh then ultimately the matter is closed the case is Clos and the board has its obligation to deliberate and vote before they do uh I always in every case uh give go through the relief that they are deciding uh so it's clear we make sure every applicant agrees that that is the relief required of them and that they are requesting sorry required required of them and that they are requesting uh and then also I will go through a list of conditions that doesn't mean the board is going to Grant the application just because I go through a list of conditions I go through a list of conditions and confirm that they're all stipulated to by the applicant uh because the board doesn't just ultimately vote on yes or no um because the yes is with presumably all the stipulated two conditions which are designed to mitigate the detriments associated with any project uh that's what they're voting on yes with the conditions or not ultimately and the board may even want to uh uh seek to impose additional conditions are different conditions so that's a process that takes place after your public comment and after the applicant completes anyut uh and a summation like in so that's uh how it must work under the law and but we get to other stages I'm happy to repeat and further explain desired or necessary is that acceptable Mr chairman yeah it is all right um so it's open for public comment anyone who has a comment to make uh please step down in front of Steve you'll be sworn in and U we'll take your coms I get I need to get their name oh okay we're going to do name and address and then I'll swear them in if you can so she can the Acoustics particularly with the fans are a little V so if you can give her your and everybody your name and address my name is Jo Joanne Miler and I live on nine Hill Street in Bernville I'm sorry nine nine Hill Street in Bernville m y l r and if you could just raise your right hand if you don't mind you swear to God or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing about the trth yes thank you very much and well my statement is that I'm opposed to the building is that okay to say that and the reasons that um I come against it is because I grew up here and I love Burnville I love our community it's the best place to ever have grown up and right now the traffic goes all the way past Oak Street it's it's horrendous so if we and I always thought that we could only go two stories in Burnville now I'm hearing that this is supposed to be four stories high and I don't even know how wide but um it's going to cause too much traffic it's going to make the town look ridiculous we don't want a Hoboken in Burnsville we don't and I Peter Palmer was the mayor when I was a little girl and he was such a nice man I always respected him and looked up to him as a one time I was at a party and was he came to the party for some reason and uh everybody all the kids were so excited and I just can't believe he would want to do this to this town because I remember him as being a a really awesome person I looked up to him I was young you know a lot younger but uh that's just my statement I really I hope you guys can beend this and turn it around and uh you know that don't let I'm just I don't know if this is a greedy thing but don't let greed take over our country this is just our little Town let's just try to keep it the way it is so our grandchildren can grow up and the you know the Legacy that he could leave behind is like great like that center of town that that it is right now is beautiful maybe he could restore it make it two stories and redo it or something doesn't have to be for stories and and put all these extra cars on the road in our town and everything so that's just really well [Music] oh I'd like to make one point and that is it's not a problem with testimonies redundant other words don't feel that oh somebody said it I got it say something new all testimonies fair game it's okay right everybody's letting everybody your name and address yes Michelle Conover c n o v r 16 Burrows Avenue 16 Burrows Burrows b r r o ws and that's in Bernardsville you swear to God per Tes about to give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you um I'm just going to read my statement um I would like to address the concerns that the environmental commission has concerning storm water you might if you of it if you if that's helpful I can give it to I might read very fast I'm a fast talker okay but I can give you this you okay go off off the topic when you let her know it's not on okay I would like to address the concerns that the environmental commission has concerning stormw management you should know that I am on the environmental commission we previously submitted three letters of comments to this this board um for those of you who do not know storm water runoff is precipitation rain snow sleet that runs off hard surfaces like pavement sidewalks or roofs as a result of storm water storm water carries and transports pollutants such as trash motor oil fertilizers and droppings Etc into storm drains which generally are not treated before draining directly to River streams and Lakes by law all municipalities must at a minimum conform to the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection model storm water Control Ordinance storm water management is not optional the management rules require the use of green infrastructure to meet storm water management standards for water quality recharge and volume control for all major developments a major development means a development that disturbs one or more Acres such is the case with the Palmer development green infrastructure mimics natural processes to absorb and store and store water rather than exporting storm water directly to streams and rivers using concrete pipes green infrastructures allow storm water to soak into the ground to recharge the ground water into aquafers we would like to see a comprehensive plan which shows in detail how runoff will be contained to lessen the impact of pollutants from entering surface and channeled Water Systems it is worth noting that an increase of pollutants could be generated from heating and cooling systems in the 68 608 I think it's 64 units and also with the associated vehicles that are anticipated we believe it is unreasonable and antithetical to the njde regulations that Antiquated storm water management methods be applied grandfathered or otherwise to this development it seems that this applicant plans to do very little to control storm water this lack of concern for the management of storm water is very concerning we do not see a significant application for green infrastructure and best management practices which comply with the upgraded D New Jersey D storm water regulations the purpose of these regulations is to reduce storm water volume A Hazard for flooding and its risk to human safety and property loss it also reduces pollution in our waterways which is a hell Hazard we question how the applicant's decrease of impervious surface was calculated and more importantly if is this if this equates with their non-compliance of providing a plant to contain storm water we are confused by the statements that there is less impervious surface than the current property when in fact the courtyard sits above a concrete parking garage where will this water discharge to and how will it trickle down to the aqua will any materials used here be perious we are concerned that the storm water ultimately will be directed bya conduits to the mine BR we question the validity of the public statements made by the applicant that roof runoff is clean we also question if consideration was made for how much pollution will increase with the new the number of apartment units and their corresponding cars in addition to the increase in vehicular air pollution due to delivery trucks for apartments as well as commercial units we question if the storm water calculations provided in the April 26 24 storm water statement for a 100-year rainfall accurately reflects rainstorm currently experienced some experts state that these numbers are not currently accurate as you can see there are still so many concerns regarding storm water management the management of this runoff can directly have a negative effect on surrounding areas if not managed correctly we simply ask that the regulations be followed at a minimum or better yet at an elevated level for the safety of all so I don't know if you wanted this sure that Johanna whinger I'm sorry joh Johanna whinger I have the spelling of both please yes sure j o h a n n a w i SS i n g e r w i SS i n g r yes okay did you want to respond to [Music] can I get the address I'll chime in I have any questions Washington quter Road I'm sorry what was the number oh 81 Washington Corner Road and Washington Corner Road okay that's a fair assump the um right you swear to God iirm that the testimon about to give us the truth the whole truth and nothing I do thank you very much I'm going to read this just so can we I know like reading off of it can you um we just maybe slow it down a little bit I will with that thank you I've served on the Bernville environment mission for many years I volunteer because I believe that a healthy environment has a direct connection with the health of people I believe responsible thoughtful people can correct improve and most importantly prevent negative consequences of poor environmental practices I believe it's fair to say that those who know me know I am not against change nor development in general I am for protecting entrepreneurship and individual property rights when these are not injurious harmful to others I'm prefacing my comments tonight with these two statements because I need to express my serious concern for the Palmer Redevelopment project both as an environmental Advocate and as a long-term resident of Bernville over half a century such a combining is very unusual for me but now it's warranted I try very hard to separate my role as an environment of commissioner my citizenship oh so what was the last thing S as a resident I said tried to separate it most importantly as the planning board members and the public just heard Michelle coner AR is not in compliance with current and JD stormhood regulations I'm referring to at least 19 20 March one the current one there's some interpretation of um the July 2023 how we enacted the coner project lack projects lack of required best management and green infrastructure storm water management as a specific serious potential of negatively acting mind broke sorry can I get the last thing sure mind broke okay I'm concerned that the public has not heard the report nor had an opportunity to ask questions of the municipally hired traffic expert we did hear presentations from the applicant traffic expert I believe at least two and in my opinion he was unable to answer my questions adequately not to myself satisfaction the following I believe are legitimate questions in need of answers from an invisibly hired traffic expert what is a responsible estimate of traffic that will be generated from the increase of the Palmer project from new residents visitors of residents business and residential workers business and residential deliveries commercial patrons in and out of the driveway entrance and exit how many of our existing commercial businesses will be impacted by the north south 202 traffic gridlocks I mean now we know you cannot get to theer bank uh nor P Gladstone sorry was the second P Gladstone sorry yeah can I get can I get after TD Bank sir sure um in short those of us who drive know that many of our businesses you can't get to because you are held up with the traffic grid how many residents living on the roads around OT intersection and how many residents living on the many side streets of Mount Ary Road Anderson Road through 202 North will have their entries and exits blocked to from their homes with traffic rlock many of us already know that occurs what is the degree of concern for the safety of pedestrians who walk past the driveway entrance exit going down to the underground garages of this project will this additional traffic increase the safety hazards for pedestrians Crossing two 202 at or near the familiar existing Street cross word what I personally seeing whole track meets cross there I've stopped and hope that I won't be back hit keep my foot on The Brak so that I don't bump into a kid I've seen kids walking from school earplugs looking at their phone there's no line of sight there either how specifically will oversiz delivery trucks be managed how will double parking be controlled which may result from the backup of deliveries how will this be prohibited at the mount Ary driveway we heard some explanation but it wasn't really clear to me remotely I don't know it wasn't sad satisfactory to me I we want a better answer has the applicant architect and or engineer adequately address the problem of poor line of sight due to the buildings there the new of the new development address the what line of sight for vehicles traveling north on 202 and I did hear a board me uh a planning board member uh try to SU suest that this is a problem and what the correction could be will the plans for removing not sure if this was at 9 ft or whatever of uh the existing Palmer building from the um Mount Arie road side of the present paret building significantly remedy the problem at the Crossing and the visibility for rightand vehicle turns what what are the estimates of increased vehicle exhaust from The increased traffic and grid line what assurances are provided that the vehicle ex exhaust from all the traffic traveling in and out of the underground garage will be adequately vented any of the underground one U big ones that I've been in they've all had openings I don't know how they're going to really handle this how long will the overall construction take how long will remediation take if contaminants are found in the soil from the historic gasoline taints and home o oil tanks I'm sorry and home and home oil tanks will our small businesses be able to survive this road artery Interruption impeding customers from traveling to them overall if there is any um validity to any of these questions by big question is what feasible recommendations can our traffic expert or any third party traffic expert suggest to resolve these problems can we widen the roads can we make one ways the way they do in New York how will this traffic change ever be resolved are there answers I'd like to ask our traffic expert about that I'm that I have three difficult questions this is not pleasant me at all usually a little more poetic about things but I have three different questions that I feel an obligation to ask what is it good policy for municipal governance to subsidize a develop project for a 30-year tax relief will the set of presidents um I don't know I it just seems to me that it should not be our Republic's tax burden or uh we should not have to to cover the risk of a developer two is it good policy for minicipal principality to adjust ordinances to accommodate a particular app well this set a president I mean it was three stories uh we were concerned about in the past i' heard buyer chams talk about uh we have volunteers uh uh we talked about looks it's supposed to be a Victorian house but uh design but how will this four stories how why was this uh granted three and the last one how and why should Municipal governances be involved with decreeing the need for redevelopment for individual Property Owners when possibly they've not provided found reason for maintaining their property is is this something that is uh reasonable now I realized the procedure of this application just state that make that statement again I want I just I okay how and why should Municipal governance be involved in decreeing the need for redevelopment for individual property owners and has not and and by has not I mean has the owner provided sound reason why the property is in the state of need of Redevelopment is what I mean but I particularly said we're not maintaining their property I I realize the procedure for this applicant is not typical and that the planning board has been faced with a very difficult position I really hope the decision you make can be the best for all of Bernville residents and business Proprietors the residents and businesses of verville are not responsible for this for the decisions of this overambitious project their selection of this property site its development design it's the applicants responsibility and it was their decision and we should not have to suffer the consequences for it thank you my name's just Jo petric contest two word last name p is Peter e t r i c k second word c n t s 65 Peach CT one word Drive Burns you swear to God we affirm that the testimony give us truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I please proceive echoing what so many others have said here in written editorials in the newspaper let me state that I am not against development change is inevitable positive change can be elusive the Palmer project will transform our downtown in so many negative ways ignoring many guidelines set in place by the Town Master Plan in increased height in additional impervious services in less public space in less Green Space less parking than required and less than the current amount of retail space while increasing the traffic and obliterating a part of our Town's history all while providing the developer with a generous tax break that we as taxpaying Citizens will be subsidizing shame on our elected officials who for some unknown reason have handed this developer the keys to the kingdom remember this when it's time to select a new Town Council and a mayor I voted for those individuals who I believed have the town's best interest at heart and who I trusted with their power now it's obvious that I was wrong thank you cine peachy I'm sorry can I get that Catherine pachy p e a c h e y 7 Chilton sorry 70 Chilton c h i l t o n c with a C or with a K and an a 2 a you swear to God Refirm Tes about the giv the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth it was exceedingly difficult for me to construct my comments tonight for weeks I went round and round I thought what was the point for their own reasonings when the Town Council rejected your collective decision as a planning board they rejected your designation of an area in needed red Redevelopment and they accept it as that they virtually handcuffed you Mr Warner reminded us he reminded us all that the board can't change what has already been agreed to by Council so they handcuffed you as a diligent and necessary ancillary Town board and they handcuffed us as mindful residents looking UR L to collaborate with developers as such the Palmer project is flawed from the start and it's flawed in the end it's imperfect with many points of weakness the very first point of weakness is that we did not enter this project as a unified town so now we all grappled with the frustrating result of being steamrolled into an oversized wall of development at a point in the center of town with major parking and traffic congestion issues with multiple questionable issues invol involving environmental safety pedestrian safety fire safety with barebones storm water mitigation and management and with very little overall general public benefit according to our Town's overall master plan I too had on here the objection to being uh you know attached at the hip through a pilot with Advanced reality Joanne you wish it were only two stories but it started as three it was granted to four and now it leans to five that's taking an awful lot of Liberty the size and the scale was always a focal point for this project and so Advanced reality yeah you conform you repeatedly poke that in our sides but what are some of the flaws that don't especially benefit the town in its master plan and which Advanced realy repeatedly dismissed with phrases like we don't see it that way or we'll have to get back to your professionals with more details the architecture a grossly oversized complex that doesn't reflect any Especial current or historical local architecture of berville in fact I believe Advanced realy is demolishing local structures to erect a more or less homogeneously designed W of compartments but that's Aesthetics and taste is personal Green Space a cloistered Courtyard is not public Green Space nor is a conrete sidewalk planter Green Space it might be streetcap and that's nice but it's not Green Space safety there's so many safety issues the environmental safety the subject of cell towers comes up it's a gray area I know there arguments on both sides so I guess with that one with findings that are inconclusive we just have to agree to disagree about environmental safety P pedestrian safety the mounty bridge and the loading dock intersection pedestrian safety of traveling students and locals and Shoppers as they navigate the crosswalk just feet away from the apartment building's only Ingress and egress location the only one buyer safety like eat batteries Governor hok described miss hand grenades i' advise you just not to let them have them excessive height concerns and access for fire squads just last week there was a fire across town on the first floor they called in five other units not just Bernardsville for a first floor fire and they successfully put that out quickly and I hope they could do the same for something at 4 and five a buted up against railroad tracks so parking and traffic well well the fundamental flaw there was the traffic study was conducted with the understanding that really the traffic only goes 15 to 25 excuse me 15 to 20 miles per hour but that's magical thinking because the state designates that 202 US Highway Corridor as 30 miles hour third parking management no one ponier 15 minutes for free it's getting harder and harder for me to even get out of my car in 15 minutes Fe to park no specific area designated for uers door Dash Etc there are so many day-to-day functions of a large apartment complex that are getting gloss over storm water management thank you for speak to that right down the road in New Brun they've already started storm water management utility and yet here they said we're really going to do just what's basic and once we get shovels in the ground we're grandfathered in and don't plan to make any more changes that's not real Forward Thinking and that doesn't have the town at heart so in the end it's true that you may be a fully conforming project but that does not necessarily mean that you've truly worked in collaboration with the town and residents in a meaningful and co-creative way that should bring upgrade and Improvement on overall scale and that this harmoniously sets a good example and leads the way for the other Development coming on in town behind it on the contrary it seems you effectively illustrate that you cannot keep a town pointt or you cannot keep the history in at the Forefront and in fact must demolish historic buildings to satisfy a project that was flawed at the start and is flawed in the end so at the very least may this experience act as a cautionary tale going forward as more and more developers come knocking at burnsville's door and regardless of whether or not I agree with you I do thank you for the Mindful atttention and countless hours of revie of review that you provide for the town Andrew fos f LS 41 Linda very Avenue in Bernard you swear to God to affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole true and thank you please uh I'm coming more from a engineering standpoint uh I would like to just touch base on reviewing the Redevelopment plan for the allott square and I just would like to touch on four areas of the plan and um and just make some comments on them uh first one is traffic on page eight the local Redevelopment and Housing law has required elements of which section A notes improved traffic as part of the requirements I think the keyword is improved on page 17 the 2017 reexamination of the land use Plan introduced additional goals specifically item three that says quote to improve the circulation patterns into and throughout the downtown obviously even the testimony agreed that the traffic would increase not improve the tra and decrease the tra this plan does not accomplish these goals set forth in the local development and housing law nor the land use plan page 21 the Redevelopment plan components under primary plan goals item six it states quote to address existing pedestrian and traffic circulation concerns whose concerns are being addressed I don't think the Public's concerns been addressed was there any concerns identified throughout this process was the Public's concerns identified and how were they addressed any of the testimony that I heard had none of that I haven't heard any any concerns being even identified no less addressed by the testimony of the traffic expert uh secondary is historic preservation under page 14 the downtown core Zone's intent is to quote preserve the historic character of the area page 19 the 1987 Somerset County master plan has the goal to quote protect and enhance significant historic cultural cultural and archical sites and structures now page 20 States quote the Palmer Square development plan is entirely consistent with the County's master plan how is tearing down two historic structures from the 1800s preserving the historic character of berville or in alignment with the county master plan you can't have vot you can't tear down structures and protect and enhance significant historic structures third one is acreage on page 10 the tax assessed area of this a plan is .98 Acres which is below the minimum one acre on page 24 page 11 has a 2007 survey by Janna con Villa and aldrid notes the acreage is 1.91 which is 21 a half% higher than the taxed assess agage one Sor than the 21.5% higher than the taxed assessed acreage and then page 10 merely States survey information available as the acreage at 1.08 which again is 10% higher than the tax assess acreage however no survey company has been provided and no date is provided so how can there be three different acreages on the same plots and which one is correct is the 098 correct if it is then this doesn't meet the one acre minimum requirement why has the name and date of the 1.8 calculation been left out what is the true acreage and finally if the true acreage is the 2007 assessment why has the town collected taxes for 21 a half less acreage over since 2007 finally Administration on page 38 sections DN specifically notes that the planning board as an entity is to take action section e separates and identifies both the planning board and the burrow council with specific actions and authorities however section o on page 39 States quote the burrow of Bernardsville reserves the right to amend this plan the burrow of Burnsville it doesn't say the council it doesn't say the planning it say says the bur in my opinion by definition that would mean all bodies of the burrow have the right to amend this plan and I believe that the planning board has the power and authority to to amend this plan as it sees fit as well sorry as it I'm sorry can I get the last to amend this plan as it sees fit as well so based on the increased traffic improve the increased safety risk the destruction of historic structures and the questionable acreage I asked the planning board to reject this plan and exercise their right to amend the plan to one that is more in line with the character of this town and finally I'm really worried about someone getting significantly injured when they're crossing the street signicant you're injured or killed pedestrian ones and whoever votes for this be it the planning board of the council if someone gets hurt or injured that blood is on your hands thank you hi Sylvia Guild g i LS G LS g i l s 189 Washington Corner Road Intel right she said yes okay you swear to God the Tes about to give us the truth the whole truth yeah please proce I'm sorry I'm not prepared with statements and I will not speak as ly as those who came before me but I will put you back on something that was just said what you plan on building is dangerous for pedestrians I think about not just my children but all the children who walk from school and use that area to access downtown you're risking their lives and I know this I grew up in Elizabeth New Jersey one of the most Urban busiest cities in this state I cannot think and I taught there for 20 years and I still go there I cannot think of one intersection in that entire town that is as congested as what Mount area and 202 is currently I cannot imagine what it will become if these buildings go up you are already doing worse than Elizabeth New Jersey at this intersection and now you're going to make it worse and you are endangering the lives forget the adults you're endangering I don't mean like forget they don't matter but we have more awareness usually children are going to be accessing this and they are going to be hurt it happens now people don't stop at The Pedestrian Crossings what is going to happen when they don't see the kids crossing and the kids are distracted these are our children I did not move to this town so that I could remain in a town like Springfield or Hillside or Elizabeth all towns I have resided in I think it's it's shameful that you have all jump maybe not all of you but many of you have jumped on board with this building and the one behind it it it's it's it's a grave mistake and I'm telling you the busiest intersection is right here and you will make it worse and you will endanger the lives of children thank you Barber long I'm sorry can I get that barb long LG 28-2 Lloyd Road LL o y Ro I'm sorry what was the other um what' you say before burn 28 D lloy Ro okay than you swear to God the testimon about to give us the truth but all truth nothing but the truth please proceed and please speak as loud as you're comfortable speaking so everyone can hear you I have that fan that's what it is I agree with everyone who has spoken so far and they were far more eloquent than I'm going to be tonight but mine comes from the heart I've lived here more than 50 years and yes we've seen changes changes that have been mostly good for Bernard Z with we've always had a sense of community we've had a sense of downtown we seem to be losing all of this worse than that is what we also are going to be suffering from I'm a small business owner in Basking Ridge I feel for those small business owners in Bernardsville they will not survive the construction they will not survive the future traffic parking is bad enough now so we're supposedly developing this one part of burnard on one side of the street and what is going to happen to the other side of the street it is going to be disaster and I don't know if the developers have made any concession for all those shops are they going to do something for them give them Donuts coffee anything like that so those shop owners can give them to anyone who comes in they're going to need that I'm also devastated with the water management I think that is just horrible on my little lane we have just spent close to $20,000 in redoing water coming out of a drain and along our properties and everything like that one small area that is not even with houses it's in a long a lot side water management is expensive it is difficult when you don't get it right it is horrible and we were living with a situation that was terrible we all got together and said we would do this this and this and we got in experts so that we are cleaning it up properly I do not feel that anything I've heard in any of the meetings here have addressed the runoff and what is going to happen with that runoff appropriately I do believe that this project at the beginning burough Council felt it was going to be a money maker for the town and the town was hurting we were one of those towns that was not like Basking Ridge that has no debt we had a huge debt and they were desperate to come up with something that might relieve this debt issue I am horrified that they would take on a project like this confirm it without ever having a traffic study done before the project was accepted and then to give tax relief in something that was supposed to alleviate the tax indebtedness in the town I'm definitely against this hi Kathleen Shephard 16 ambar Road pleas excuse me per right hand swear to God testim about to give us truth truth and nothing truth thank please proceed okay and I I didn't think I'd be speaking uh tonight so I'm not too organized in my thoughts my old thoughts because I'm 80 years old and I have I I agree with people who say that they uh progress is not always bad I think that is true um however I feel like the uh development that is about to begin and the tax issues um are not going to be especially good I live oh I'd like to ask for people to tell me if I'm the only one that lives off Amar I mean out off of AR folks please we do need to speak stick to the legal procedures so I'm that's okay but this you can comment and which is testimony relevant to the application right well I was hoping I was not the only one that would be here that lives off of m road but I am at an ambar which is uh two roads up from the railroad bridge and I've been here uh in Bernardsville for over 20 years at my little old antique house the street I live on at one end the mount Arie end has petite antique houses it's it's beautiful my house is 110 years old there's some that are older I don't know why they were allowed to stay but they did the problem on my street is what's going to happen off my street everybody in a household these days seem to have a card there's not like one car for two people I don't know how they figured this all out as far as the traffic land and the number of cars that are going to be coming in but we're having problems on my street people it's like the city they're jocking for positions their their disagreements you know it's it's worrisome and if you magnify it to the extent of this new plan for Bernardsville I don't think it's going to be better um uh when I come out of of uh ambar place and I want to go onto Mount Ary Road I have to pick the time of day that I want to get out on that ay road to go into Bernardsville I could walk to Bernardsville in seven minutes if I walk fast enough getting out and getting on the road and driving to Bernardsville would be at least twice that long sometimes even more and these are regular traffic jams we go through because of school letting out Al I mean School uh Bernard's High and the middle school and the lower school are all in one area of town people come down Mount area to get there to the schools and you can just about count on it count on it for sure that there was there's going to be a if you get on the road and you look at the amount of cars on it you know it's 5 o'l it's that kind of um difficulty that those of us who live in this area have I cannot understand how this is going to be dealt with I I'm sorry I just I just don't see it um I don't see how you could um increase the two-lane road Mount Ary coming down to the center of town I I also understand that there's going to be um housing off of Mount ARA is that true you mean the affordable housing is that going to be off of it's in progress the all right well that's replacing the Amman lot with Port is that the allward lot or is that amberman lot right next to the train can I get that straight the amberman lot you train tracks m e r m n so that's going to add more people to the uh traffic issue which I find to be i i find I find it to be a p dream how people can think that this is going to be solvable I I really I would like if you don't mind to somehow give us as it's been said before the plan and the estimation of the traffic because I otherwise you're going you're going to put in the center of town what you think is going to be so beautiful and wonderful and you're going to take it away from the outer edges of town I also wanted wanted to ask the the buildings uh that are in uh Bernardsville I heard a rumor long time ago that the owners of the buildings in which many of the businesses used to that are no longer they don't for tax purposes they don't really have to rent out their their shots is it is there something at all M Chef I the uh assuming the relevancy of those inquiries to the application that's before board right now procedur even assuming procedurally the board isn't here to answer questions at this stage this is your opportunity all members of the public to present your evidence as well as your positions with respect to this particular application well I wanted to hook it up with the fact that maybe I'm sorry can I I'm sorry I couldn't hear you i' like if possible if I'm not stepping on any toes I'd like to hook it up with the possibility if they did better for their tenants maybe we'd have people in the shops and we all wouldn't have that as the excuse for doing I don't know whatever they're doing I I just don't see I just don't see Bernard's fil being sacrificed and that's what I feel with is thanks Rosie Valentine sorry can I get that one more time Rosie Valentine boy a l l a n t i n e is am I not being loud enough you know what it is I got the fan yeah did you get sorry I didn't get the whole thing now b a l l a n n t i n e I don't even have that kind of authority okay 19 19 okay no so if you're as loud as me you'll be fine all right uh you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're not about to give excuse me is the truth the whole truth or nothing better yes yes I do thank you oh I came here tonight and I was already so upset I don't know if I don't speak loud enough please tell me to speak louder and after hearing all these incredible comments I can I can hardly I can hardly do this frankly it's so upsetting this is just a disaster anyway um the Palmer project represents to me a complete disregard and violation of the rights of Bernardsville residents to be informed consulted and engaged from the beginning when a project of this size is proposed this is extremely concerning it will have a huge IR retractable impact on our town there was no public involvement until the project had already been approved by the council and granted its special status by our council local input was only allowed after the fact and we actually had trouble just seeing the plans for the first time there was a long period when we didn't even know what we were discussing what was the project going to look like the many successive local outcries were a essentially ignored too late maybe we could have at least achieved a compromise of three stories and a public pocket park the bottom line a complete lack of transparency and public opportunity to participate closed door governance you have to wonder are there other such projects now in the works past and present are at odds today now many months later over a year later the project before us is very different than residents were initially led to believe by AR's introductory presentation I'm Sorry by AR excuse me can I get that again by um she said AR introductory presentation sorry we were told that the Palmer Pro project would bring an infusion of life and activity in our downtown it would cause a sorely needed revitalization of the area it would be a great new opportunity for residents to meet and shop and diine and just hang out in public green areas I remember some mention of an inner public Courtyard which would be open to everybody as well as um hang on as well as a reference to Dair and Connecticut what we now have before us is essentially a massive apartment building with private residences it might as well be fenced and gated however this approach is consistent in a way this law has never been available to local Shoppers it's been for a long time a huge empty parking lot in our core area for private parking only today we local residents remain basically helpless to suggest significant changes it's very frustrating so for me it's very difficult to think of celebrating our Centennial with a commemoration this project represents it's so contrary to the character of our small beloved town and I've known it for more than 80 years it's more suitable to moris town or Summit we need projects that enhance our rural character not destroy it how could anyone who truly truly cared about this town its past its present it's future propose such a project for me it's a dark day in verville's history with very serious repercussions to follow but not to end on such a depressing note I want to thank all of the members of our planning board with Bob Bob Graham at the helm for all the intense scrutiny discussions hours upon hours spent on this application I can only imagine how frustrating the whole process must have been for each of you with your hands tied with being restricted in your normal wonderful review process you have definitely done everything in your power to make many relevant improvements to the proper functioning and security of the structure you could not save the day but you certainly did your best thank you and one PS very important to remember everyone that the name of our downtown Center is allot Square legitimately JIS virtue V sorry can I get that again JN j n i s v i r t a v i r t is and Tom u e 177 child's 4th Avenue 17 child Worth Avenue thank you right you swear to God I refer the testimony about to give truth the truth please proceed so I think I wanted to speak after so many of you did because I feel something and I'm hoping that all of you do I have a feeling you do but I do want to talk about feelings and speaking from the heart because this isn't just about the applicant coming presenting something that they can pass in this town and make with all due respect whoever's paying you make money from it it's about so much more it's about where we live it's about our homes it's about the people we know it's about our community and if this project look at from what I understand it's going to go through and how that happened I'll never know but it's going to change fnv will forever so I think I want to start with at I just J jotted down a lot of notes but one of the things I said was um you know I was driving through towns when through town when the kids were dismissed from high school and I will tell you that traffic came to a standstill there were a lot of children Crossing across throughoute 202 from um where Pac Gladstone bank is I'm sorry where near where peack Gladstone bank is across that way and then down because they have to cross the people that live on the other side of town have to cross over I will tell you I watch little kids on the corner of 202 and Mount Road I will tell you it's frighten me there's traffic coming from all her it's a highway it's a route it's not a street by the way I live on child's world Avenue and already and it's been like that I've lived there for over 50 years people cut through town and go over my street all the time why because they don't want to go through town because there's too much traffic as it is let's see so we're talking about impact on schools we're talking about increased enrollment we're talking about higher taxes we're talking about impact and increase Services police fire EMT by the way they're volunteer while fire department and an are volunteer will they go to pay more taxes let's see what else do I have here um um I think there were too many unanswered questions about this project and by the way there are people sitting here but let there be no mistake there are so many more people for whatever reason that are not here tonight maybe they're busy maybe they're on vacation maybe they weren't aware of this meeting I don't know but I guarantee you there's a lot more people that object to this than what you see here tonight yeah you must consider consider the health welfare and safety of the people in this town I travel from town to town and I see these cubicles being built they're all the same they're little boxes may I feel look at the big picture what do we want to do do we want to have a 15minute city do we all want to live in a place where we can track trace and control because I actually think that's what's going on here let's see now so the applicant comes presents and leaves and then we're all left here because we're living here we're staying here so let's see what other notes I have here but um anyway if it were up to me I would reject the whole plan probably can't do that so I would urge you to put as many restrictions on this project as you possibly can and by the way it's not going to increase business the businesses in this town they're not going to get any more businesses so the whole thing is just not good and I thank you very much and I thank you for doing your jobs up there Dave M 230 I'm sorry Dave m MC i l w i n 230 Mount Harmony Road sorry 230 Mount Harmony Road okay so I I also would like to reiterate sorry please don't leave me out do you swear do you swear to goder the testimony you're about to give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but TR thank you so I'd also like to thank you for the work that you guys do um as uh I've lived um in bernil for many of the past 60 years I run a small business and I really don't have the time to look into any of this detail and I appreciate you're doing it um I think um like the last speaker said there are many people in town who have no idea of any of this detail I prly didn't know any of the much of the detail until sitting in in the session today um maybe I should have but I didn't I don't and I would just say um you know I run a small business and I sit in the Marin Area traffic almost every day and it's brutal it's an enormous waste of time and adding 64 units at that choke point will only make that vastly worse um schools and taxes are an issue you know and greed is an issue I worked in finance for many years you know 64 units is a lot better than than half that number units um but you know it probably should be had um this project in my view brings B to vernil which I don't think anyone really wants here um I ask people to consider a very brief density analysis maybe look from from the railroad side from Mount AR road to the train station in that property area I don't know how many square feet that is but how many units are in that that area versus the 64 units you know in in the area that's been proposed um and then the Amber and parking lot if you get rid of the am and parking lot where people are going to park to go downtown you know parking is clearly an issue for small businesses so that's a Killy you know I know it's tough to make things happen when you have a tight downtown but maybe we should be thinking outside of the downtown and that's all I have to say thank you we will take a break and okay than than --------- everything need okay we're good so are back resum from our break back on the record we have fum back for the record and we're continuing our public amen hello um my name is Patricia Duncan DC I live um on bralo Lane in Burnville and I've already said some of these things before Count's testimony all of a sudden everybody wants you swear to God affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the TR abut thank you very much okay I already number call uh 250-1 thank you much 250-1 um I live on a private road so I get the only thing I get from my taxes are police and Roads and other than that I've never had children in the school system and um I've been paying really high taxes for the last 35 years okay my first thing that I've said in the past is that when I'm I'm the kind of nerd that reads the the small the back with burmon news and um one thing that really struck me was that they're calling this an urban renewal project uh we are not Urban and I don't know that it was need of re renewal I uh in the past I worked for the Jersey City Redevelopment uh and that is and was a blighted area and um I can tell you that 50 years ago uh I worked where now really pretty in downtown new uh Jersey City but it took 30 40 years for those things to happen they don't happen quickly especially if you're going for state and look and and federal funding as an urban renewal project secondly um all these assumptions were made when the interest rates were three and 4% now the interest rates are 7% plus how is the developer planning to finance this and and you know how exact you know and why is it called an urban R unless they're going for other funding I'm sorry how is it I'm sorry other funding no I didn't hear oh I said how why is it called anur urban renewal other than that they're going for state and federal funding for this project the developer is not putting up so money on this so his risks are much lower um the third thing is um the fact that um the town gave the pal the owners of the property uh a tax ating of 30 years and yet they uh it's with 77,000 about 77 77,000 in taxes for their their their plot of land but that yet they're they're maintaining the ground underneath that that project so that 20 years from now 50 years from now the Palmer family will still own that property the developer is only getting a lease of the land um and um let me think what else um uh I so I just really question you know that that this was rushed through and um I don't know when it was rushed through but I've going to meetings for over a year now and um the people did not really really consider all the percussions the schools to the traffic Etc um so thanks for letting me sh kry k e r r y Hazelton h a s e l t o n 397 Minebrook [Music] Road please raise right hand you SAR affirm that the testimony about to giv the truth the whole truth and nothing but the TR yes thank you please proceed hi everyone after months of meetings cancellations delays and postponements requiring residents to clear their schedules time and again Our Moment has arrived deep in the summer season and many are away I want to note that um two of the small business owners downtown who have been attending meetings are not here uh the owner of the Bernville Cinema frequently attends and tried to be here uh for earlier meetings but we didn't get to public comment and uh Rich at The Print Shop another person who's come often so they're they're missed uh the in-person requirement for planning board testimony hamstrings the Public's right to speak but I'm here and all my neighbors are here and I thank the board for the opportunity to be heard my heartfelt thanks go to this board for its careful scrutiny pointed questioning and tireless efforts to improve this application for the safety and overall benefit of residents and the burough as a whole despite the the fact that our Council has tied your hands behind your back and left you with far less influence than you deserve you push the applicant to correct setback errors and inch the development back from the county right away on Mount Ary you worked to ensure the developer delivers the sidewalk with promised and redesigns the unsafe delivery entrance you gained the removal of the tower element none of this would have happened without your push back and and we thank you as a 32-year burnard go resident and a lifelong resident of the local area I've witnessed many changes at allot Square over the decades but none so massive as the proposed development of the Palmer properties is it really to be called Palmer Square Palmer square at alott Square the Palmer building and Palmer square at Huts sare it will SE confusion in 2020 the planning board created the Zoning for the downtown pool increasing the height limit to three stories the application from Advanced realy to develop the Palmer Lots quickly cropped up proposing a huge four to five story rental apartment building near the crest of a hill across the street from our historic old library anyone driving Northbound on two to will see this Behemoth looming over the Palmer building a more prominent position of a building out of scale with the community could not be imagined the applicant has taken advantage of every available bit of square footage on the ground and airspace above to maximize the dimensions of this building the plans reflect exceptions on the height and number of stories taken together these exceptions result in a five-story elevation along Mount Ary Road and the railroad tracks yet the architect testified that the complex will have about the same visual impact as a typical Victorian house more like a Victorian Palace why is this a four to five story building in violation of the three story Zoning for the area that was just enacted because the council decided in opposition to this board that this particular property is so in need of reimagining and our downtown is so downtrodden that no developer would be interested in coming here without special dispensations including the height of the building and a pilot tax abatement that will relieve the developer of paying school and County taxes for a minimum of 30 years wow the other residential and Commercial Property Owners that's you me will be expected to pick up the slack and subsidize this apartment complex and any others that are granted a pilot in the future let's not let this approach become the model for Burnville any deal that a for-profit corporation wants to strike with the burough will leave us ultimately on the losing end I believe that the designation of this area in need has short circuited the process and requirements that should be met every single time a variance from zoning is granted namely that granting a variance does not result it it benefits are the public good and not solely the developer and that granting the variance does not result in a substantial detriment to the Zone plan this development would fail on both these parameters the additional stories beyond the three normally allowed benefits only the developer and sets a dangerous precedent for future developments to likewise exceed the highy EVS any enhancement to the public good and that itself could be argued could be achieved with a smaller building I question the existence of any areas in need of Redevelopment in burville at the state level this legislation was passed to encourage change that would Revitalize areas that are desperately depressed while the Burnsville downtown has changed adding more restaurants and service businesses in place of bricks and mortar retail these changes result more from the Advent and popularity of online shopping and delivery services than any anything else in fact the only recent emptying out has been on the Palmer property itself when the owners refuse to renew the lease of a small business that have been serving the community for decades to make way for this massive overdevelopment Bernardsville is thriving there are young families moving in any house that goes on the market for less than $1.2 million is snapped up in days or hours our camps Town Pool movie theater theer and community events are both of capacity the state of the burough is good and getting better tell anyone circling the municipal parking lot on a Friday after 5 that the burrow is struggling and you will get a quizzical look we are in need of vision and creativity not tax abatements zoning adjustments and ridiculously low residential parking requirements that will hurt the existing retail businesses and restaurants we are purportedly trying to help if Shoppers cannot park they cannot shop the businesses we have will suffer and new businesses will not be established here parking is already hard to come by downtown this development will make that worse we are also in need of affordable housing it flumes me that there are no affordable units within this proposal on a lot so very close to mass transition instead the developer promises a $1 million contribution to our affordable housing fund far less than the calculations require for a development of this s notably we have heard no discussion regarding the timeline and process for development of this site under this plan or any plan while realizing that unforeseen factors can change things in general how quickly would a project move from approval through permanent remediation Environmental Testing demolition construction and finally occupancy when would the when should the community be prepared for the traffic and construction stuff to hit the fan at this major intersection and how long will it last will it start a year from now two years will it last five years we haven't heard for all the disruption of construction improper scale traffic snars insufficient parking and Financial Risk this development would saddle us with the one and only thing we would get and return is a wider sidewalk at the corner of 202 this would be a plus for pedestrians especially those with disabilities or infants and strollers but the fact that the Palmer building is slated to remain on site means that there will continue to be a choke point within the road bed at that corner this condition is extremely dangerous to cyclists the Palmer building is or would be an attractive building if it weren't nearly in the travel Lane lopping the addition off will not materially change that fact the sidewalk will still be in the same location it is today there is no room for adequate shoulder in the plan going forward we need striping on the roadway like that in moristown reminding drivers that cyclists can use the whole roadway otherwise we are discouraging alternative and green transportation and iner in our neighbors the intersection will remain essentially unchanged from the days of horse and buggy and later that traffic top who stood in that little circle think about it as well the Palmer building has not been fully leased for years even though it has a huge private parking lot directly behind it without dedicated parking will it be attractive to businesses at all why not retain the boiling house which dates to the Revolutionary War merits mention in the master plan and has been included on the burough historic walking Flor why not create a residential and Retail complex around it whether we walk bike or brave the traffic on a drive a drive into town on Mount Ary road we get a chance to take a good long look at our beautiful neurals welcome to Burnsville small town big Community if this complex is built up depicted the very next thing we will see is a five story building a rollup garage door and a glimpse of a garden through the bars of a locked gate the irony here is glaring a gated community is not a welcoming One locking people out does not Advance Community Spirit the taxpaying public has asked for more pocket pocket parks and more Greenery downtown the master plan calls for same I urge the board to require the developer to open the gate and allow the community to Traverse or sit as spell in a garden that our taxes are subsidizing through the pilot and the reduced contribution to affordable housing that this developer has been granted from an environmental standpoint I do favor thoughtful and sensitive development of land already in heavy use over bulldozing wetlands and steep slopes to provide housing but this plan is neither thoughtful nor sensitive to the character and realities of all Square we've been promised that the designation of an area in need would enable the buau to work with the developer to arrive at a plan for this most visible and important site that works for both the burrow and the Builder in this case the council asked nothing of the Builder and granted a much larger building than our downtown zoning would permit crucially this application presents a plan that does not meet the specifications of the Redevelopment plan the relevant sections of the Redevelopment plan are in the bulk standards height and number of stories and in the definitions the bulk standards say that the building cannot exceed four stories they also say that height not number of stories is measured from the pre-development grade the downtown core standards are in inapplicable as the Redevelopment plan clearly states that the bulk standards compl contained in the Redevelopment plan super proed those in the Land Development code the Redevelopment plan is clear on how stories are measured in the definition section it states under story that if the first floor surface is higher than six feet above grade not predevelopment grade existing grade at that point then it is considered a story for purposes of the Redevelopment plan the architect testified at a meeting that I attended that it is over 6 fet at the southwest corner which is the right side of the mount ARA elevation and across the entire railroad track side the South elevation so it's five stories they presented no testimony in support of a variance and therefore the application should be denied to make things right this development should be under a new application presenting a building one story smaller and featuring a garden available to all the boilin house should be the building slated to be preserved as it makes the most sense historically it's on our historic walking tour and listed in our master plan as Tom ly of the commission of Fine Arts in Georgetown recently stated quote historic properties are a non-renewable resource once you've lost the fabric itself you've lost it forever this is the sort of conversation I imagined would take place given the area in need designation an honest discussion of the master plan and the resources on site that should be considered before moving forward it seems no such discussion occurred I believe the community is in favor of revitalization but not rampant Redevelopment the Eraser of our eclectic mix of building styles and Pages granting this application opens the door to the wholesale destruction of allot Square As We Know bar Hills and Basking Ridge have resisted the pressure to upend their lovely and historic downtowns we must do the same I'd like to see us stick with our three story limit on downtown core properties three stories is adequate in our small town big Community lastly we should take advantage of this once in two centuries opportunity and reimagine the traffic and layout the traffic and layout the traffic flow and layout all cut Square this development makes that impossible and that I think is both irresponsible and unfair to Future Generations thank you everybody for showing up tonight after so many postponements and false alarms perhaps going forward we should allow residents to submit written statements to the planning board administrator for consideration by the board after all this is our money tax abatements have been granted sorry no responding sorry this is our money tax and bance have been granted here we all deserve a chance to comment on this application whether we can be in Bernville at 7:30 on the given Thursday night or not thank you again for your time and close attention to this application any more if you're now your my name is Rudy Browski g r o d o WS k i have to give your address as well oh 29 Center Street I'm a resident of Bernville for 39 years please raise your right hand you swear to God we affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do please proceed well thank you for this excellent presentation you just gave practically took everything out from what I wanted to anyway uh I'm shocked by this horrible tenament that's going to be built right in the center of our town it doesn't fit in here and it seems to have come out of nowhere for 2 and a half years my wife and I were sort of huddling in our house because of the co fortunately we didn't get Co but we didn't go anywhere we had no communication with our neighbors we didn't do anything and as a result this sort of like fell down on me just like about a year ago I first was the first time heard about it and I'm shocked by it the this this ten is going to have so much density it's going to be higher than from what I read in the paper uh from probably any any building in Somerset County that's what I read with paper about three months ago and I don't see how that why that should occur I'm also shocked by these pilot payments as the lady just mentioned these pilot payments are just a cut to the people who are going to be building this this this horrible building and as a result we're going to have to pay the difference yeah for 30 years and I certainly don't want to pay their share of taxes I have enough taxes to pay myself um and this is going to last for 30 years I uh I would like to know how this is going to affect my neighborhood I live three streets from here are people I live on Center Street which is really a narrow Street difficult to navigate and there's parking supposedly on one side of the street but that's not the way it works now people are parking on the other side of the street it's difficult to get through people are driving by with trucks and if there are two cars parked on the on the street of opposite of each other you're risking getting high damage um how is this going to affect my neighborhood are people going to come where it on Park on my street on the street surrounding okay that's probably what's going to happen furthermore I don't hear much I hear a lot of talk about this tenament but I don't know how this is going to affect my neighborhood I don't hear anything about how it's going to improve my neighborhood Tom malinowski our former congressman and mayor Kos worked hard to get Federal money to put a bridge from Prospect Street to the to the train station so that people could safely walk to the center of town instead of walking down Mount Ary Road where you're risking your life the sidewalks about this wide trucks can flying by the speed limits too high okay so uh how is that though why why hasn't that been work I don't hear anything about that anymore we've got the money supposedly so where is it where's the construction starting on that uh the other thing is uh I believe that everyone in this town should have the right to vote their decision on whether this project should continue like I said it came out of nowhere for me I'm sure that the same thing happened to to a lot of other people what's this and uh I believe that this should be a vote for for the people at the town and that they should make a decision and whether they want this or how they want it that's all I have to say folks I hope I made an effect as to what hi my name's Maryanne Bea m a r y capital A NN my last name is capital b i e KS Za most of the people here know me as Sam I live at 154 Pine Street in Bernarda please raise your right hand you swear to God Tex about to give us the truth all truth and nothing but the trth absolutely absolutely proce hi I live in the affordable housing on Pine Street where I have resided for 29 years we are all owners we don't rent that might be why you look at that particular development and say this is a success this looks great and it does we work hard at that I think that this particular project stinks I think it's a way to get money for the Palmer and I loveed the stewardship of the Palmer in the 29 years I have lived here but this is throwing us under the bus I think it's also a way to line the pockets of the developers which everyone's here to make money I understand that I agree with that but this has been an Overkill with the Palmer playing every single card that they could play to get advantage and I really don't know why from the town so these are things that we need to look at Additionally you have to look at two main arterials you have two of 2 you have Mount Arie Road you have at least three additional developments going up in this town five we have five additional developments going up in this town where's the coordination of these developments if you have an accident or a fire or something happens how are the rescue workers going to get through on 202 in mount air if you have stagnation going up to Dayton Crescent I don't see any of the developers kicking in additional money to shore up our infrastructure to look at maybe Atlantic Ambulance coming in to take some of the burden off of the rescue workers that are all volunteer right now even if you look at the sore system which you were talking about the storm water can we accommodate that we can't even accommodate the uh the car dealership that was downtown the audio dealership they don't have a functioning toilet in there so what about the rest of that side of the street what about Walters that was the nursery what is the source system like on that side of the street yeah these are all questions that present themselves and there are more questions to this development than there are answers and especially the 30-year tax burden that is really going to hit us having this particular proceeding during the height of summer vacation says it all it stinks so thank you thank you for all your work and for the many many countless hours of meetings that you guys have endured and um letting letting me speak anyone else and most of you have spoken so that's good all right see n um couple comments one is that um as you know as was stated we're we're allowed to consider certain things you know in handling an application and um any frustrations you have with how pilot or you know other aspects of it are we listen and and simplifies but they're actually topics for the council we also understand that a lot of those proceedings it was said well don't worry you can go and talk when it comes to the planning board um so that's been a challenge for all of you we prepared and some some of you have been here all these times prepared an exceptionally long list of stipulations that um we're collaboratively working with the applicant for and um just like you you may be um complimenting us on our diligence I I'd like to point out that the applicant has actually come back and accepted a lot of those suggestions and so forth so um it's not all bad they they've uh come to the plate on many of our constructive collaborative um we have a bit of a predicament that our police department and fire department have not responded to the planning boards repeated in and requests for reports um the elements of the fire department have worked with the applicate in in meetings constructive collaborative meetings to um ensure um let's say higher grade and more and a safer um construction and the applicants um done constructively and and accepted those positive recommendations however we have nothing the police or fire um the police is normally normally there's not a lot the the police review it and they say that's fine but your concerns have been related to safety and that is one of the dominant concerns of the police department is U traffic safety and pedestrian safety um so we're bit predicament there it's our problem applicant isn't supposed to have to do that um just just giving you the facts transparently uh we have a um had discussions about enhancing collaborative enhancing and working with the council and chat and so forth on trying to ensure that the crossw marks are significantly enhanced uh it's it's a burough concern it's not jce applicant um you know the problem exists there today so that's in the works the applicant also yes there's much more clearance at the uh the intersection however um a lot of that is in the domain of the do and County terms of what could be moved and so forth um we don't have uh final plans on uh storm water and uh that's also been a topic that you raised uh correctly um although there have been some stipulations to help mitigate contaminated runoff from the collaborative stipulations to mitigate contaminated runner from the actual parking desk uh there is is in kind of unusual sort of a first time situation where the state has um requested that towns deal with climate change and the uh implications of uh severe U events um related to that um we actually have to prepare in the future section on that aspect in the master plan also the office of emergency management you know becomes part of that uh discussion this application in addition to having the code mandated emergency uh Power capabilities for anything related to personal life safety elevators and exit whites and so forth there's also a clause that uh says and based on our experience in the town in the event of an elongated power emergency uh how are these 68 residential unit going to be powered so that for the safety of the individuals and to understand whether there's a new burden on the town to take 68 units worth of occupants into the library um so there is a clause and it's it's a couple sentences but it basically says that the applicant does need to provide emergency power to the residential units um which is a significant let's say upgrade from just the minimal um Power um we haven't had the time in these many many meetings we haven't had uh time to to go through that um explicitly uh but it is one of the outstanding uh questions on the subject of traffic um just reviewing part statements and testimony it appears uh yes the applicant uh completely revamped the uh loading zone and uh the and implemented the uh mountary um loading uh ramp and places and so forth um in my even even with the minimal um retail traffic that exists in the current Palmer property today that uses that mount are exit and entrance how you read the sign it says you're not allowed to use it um the the loading the loading to into that area is is actually pretty decent it may in fact even reduce traffic there um there's still some outstanding questions as to whether the county may put a restriction on turning and so forth but I think from the standpoint of just the backup on Mount aring this application is is I would say almost innocuous on the M side that's my opinion but board however we have not been able to think of a great way to handle the driveway the main driveway traffic and you guys all know what that traffic is and how it backs up and there is a site here you know it has that driveway right in the center and so forth um we don't see any magic that um will will address that we we and that's kind of where it sits we talked about potentially leftand turn prevention when you're exiting and we felt that would actually probably severely impact the neighborhoods more with people making the right hand turn and quickly going up and going on Wesley or something else Mr chairman yeah the apologize for the interrupt I just want to make sure we clear though we have I don't want anybody to misunderstand we have not yet closed the hearing nor have we begun deliberations correct uh for I believe might be segueing into certain areas you may still want to address with the applicant if I'm not mistaken but I just didn't want it to delve into deliberations we we have not yet I'm sorry we have not yet gotten to right but I want to give you some perspective andar um there are if we go through the stipulations at some point then there are potentially additional stipulations which you've seen you know the other the some of the stuff that's been raised by but it's not if you want to uh once we close the hearing close and we address uh what the relief is uh and confirm uh exactly what relief is and is not needed uh and then we confirm exactly what conditions have been stipulated to by the applicant today uh it's certainly my opinion that the board has the right to request further uh stipulations of the applicant uh and consider if they're not granted the imposition so long as they're legal Weighing on that of additional uh conditions okay um it won't be a surprise it's just so so this can be done in the normal Course once there's also nothing wrong with you if you have something to ask the applicant now either way uh but but we haven't yet finished the case let along got to the point of going through all that so that you can have a proper deliberation of both there were a number of mostly these came from John's report but um just um oh by the way they would need oh by the way they need a relief from some which we would just like Oh by just mechanically they really four or five items relief for four items some some are trivial it's just it's just just need to do it because they have to we're going to go through the relief what is required well I'll see if there any that fall off we'll we'll handle it that way we describe it's not anything unusual okay does the board at any point get to make remarks on how the presentation made by the applicant um and if we have comments on that is there an opportunity for the board to is that Del Liberation it's deliberation sounds that's when you when you decide with the relief before you inclusive both conditions assulated to and and you decide what you're going to do you deliberate you discuss that as we always have uh and then at some point somebody will make a motion second and we'll be a vote and we'll see if that vote carries there'll be a number of um thanks there'll be a number of um stipulations that you may hear that that will be related to construction and we'll see uh we haven't had a lot of details pres presented to us about actual construction activities like how is it actually going to be done um I'm sorry how was it how is it actually going to be constructed um this will get into things like blockages and times and protections and so forth and so some of that will be in stipulations and if there's other stuff if there are other items we'll try to identify them and cover them [Music] um that's I think that's I just wanted to catch you up sort of the reality of situation so now we can I have some questions for the applicant the submission of the can I please I'm sorry I have some questions to the applicant for the submission that was made to do before proceed we we close to the public correct Mr chairman yes okay and the applicant uh has an opportunity for rebuttal if the wishes but also uh it's my opinion that members of the board can continue to ask the applicant questions and and do you have any no I I don't take exception to it if I can answer the questions for sure I do not have my traffic engineer here tonight Mr s because we finished traffic testimony been here at actually every other meeting but well my question is yep there's a from New Jersey do dated February 6th 2024 and it references of submission of October 6 2023 and then it's a uh a seven page review and much of that is a crossover between access and safe access and the design of the plan but so we're not stepping on New Jersey do regul nor are they stepping on ours correct so but the last so the seven pages has some comments that and I also have I've made multiple requests to the applicant for material and like two or three days before the last hearing this was submitted and I you know it wasn't it wasn't in time for me to review it but there's one comment on the last page of the letter that says please note that you have 90 Cal calendar days from the date of this correspondence to respond to the items above items in their entirety and that that's in their February six letter and the the June 20 something submission had nothing else that was submitted to do so I'm curious on how the applicant proposes to address any of these aspects of the do that also affect our the view of the site plan sure just just like we would address any Outside Agency approval comments from the county any this whatever approvals may be granted by this board are going to be subject to to the review and approval of those agencies if do ultimately were to come back uh and impose some requirement that was otherwise contrary to the design plans we have here uh much like same thing goes for the county for that matter Mr sov uh if if it made a change that required a modification to our site plan uh we'd have to come back before the board well as an example let's call each other person we've known each other well we certainly being respectful I person because we've known each other for so many years but on number four of the report it says they want to provide a plan showing the sight distance Tri to confirm that the site this is that the proposed site driveway along 202 is adequate and there will be no obstruction to in to impede site distance for turning movements right so sorry site distance for turning movements site distance for turning Ms obviously the testimony was that that the applicant didn't meet the standards from the sight distance and one of the aspects of meeting that is to move the building back a few feet and you you made efforts to do it with a 5 foot additional setback but these issues I think this is an important issue to the ability to turn left and right in the driveway Al we certainly agree with that too my engineer my traffic engineer Mr corak is comfortable with the design he believes that the do will issue the approv if the do takes issue with that and requires some other revisions well then we're going to have to come back and we're going to have to address it with the board well because obviously the building setback blocks the site distance to meet the do standards well I'm I'm not traffic engineer house so I'm not gonna I'm not going to address it your consultant said it didn't me the standard for this tra for the speed limit he said nobody goes that speed limit therefore not necessary standards I think that's important issue we have standards get and and but the other thing is that this letter goes on to say that if you don't Supply the material they requested in 90 days application right and we'd have to submitt it they actually they considered it withdrawn would so do they it I don't believe it's been with dra I believe Mr cork has had dialogue with do but there's nothing in writing that says I don't have anything further in writing that's one of my maor issues issue right yeah well we always have recognized we need do approval and it certainly in the event there's an approval it certainly would be one of the 100 or so conditions in the resolution yeah that's the question with respect to all outside agencies I I can't disagree with the council's analysis of subsequent conditions of approval because if I did uh you know that that would be contrary to the law on the practice the only way the only way to achieve sight distance is to move the building back for limit or change the location with driveway and that would be a major a major issue on the site plan I think it's a d jurisdictional issue and one that we understand we have to comply with their requirements but Bob Graham just talked about D of I'm second can I get that b Bob grah just spoke about the Dilemma of whether to allow left turns in and out of the driveway which is a which is a control that this Bo has access to to I question the ability to not listen to this board as to the impact of turning movements in and out of the driveway provide safe in gr me and that's that's just an issue that I like put on the table before we Goot there an implied either real or implied stipulation I see in terms of get as was just described getting the approvals of the apped agencies corre that that's in every resolution absolutely but but say I'm sorry um can I get one of the time please in the event there's an approval with that list of conditions uh it's anticipated that it would have an including but not limited to and lay out each and every Outside Agency that's anticipated and the beauty of including but not limited to means it includes all of them it's not limited to you understand my dilemma I think I do turning movements but I'm not a traffic engineer either no but the Turning movements of the driveway are important and both of us have jurisdiction over those turning movements this bo be OB based on the material that's been submitted so far the application's been automatically withdrawn because I didn't I don't believe that's the case Hal I don't think you have the information I don't have the information to answer it so I would not jump to that conclusion that the application has been withdrawn I mentioned earlier that I know like I well you you've dealt with the agency before plenty I'm sure you've probably in your experience have had discussions uh with with the various you know project managers and so forth there I know my engineer has as well we also again I will just repeat we understand that we are subject to the jurisdiction of the do also subject to the county uh and their requirements as they relate to to Road Road improvements and TR Traffic Safety well the only point is there's nothing in writing that's been submitted to this board that still valid the application is still current because what's been submitted didn't meet the 90 day and usually when I do an application if it comes close to the 90 days I get an extension in writing that extension has been granted and would have been submitted on June 20 something with this material and certainly as a board member not withstanding your experience applicant can address that issue we also have a board traffic engineer who's not a member of the board but actually the board's traffic engineer who may or may not be able to add shed some light onto the issue as well I don't know I'm just the attorney can we ask him to right now sure yeah my experience has been in these times with doot number one they are not leaving their time frames responding to applicants they had 8s to get this letter out and Counting from October and February they were late and um often applicants when they're having discussions with b and working out issues will also extend the time to respond that as long as the case manager do is aware of active response going on or or discussion uh they will leave file open that that's been but there's nothing to indicate that there's been anything else submitted yeah I'm not contradicting your experience I'm just saying uh Mr gorak's been in dialogue with do there's an Unwritten understanding that the file is not closed and when the do does close a file on you they will issue correspondence saying we have not heard from you your application's withdrawn we'll get that letter something you'll get a 30-day warning letter before that and I don't think that's happened here either so if an application in worst case scenar was with drawn they have to reopen the application is that but I to my understanding they have not been notified given a 30-day warning that it's going to be withdrawn or given a letter that it's been withdrawn so I would assume it's still an open case eot but there's been nothing the applicant when we asked for the material that was submitted to do there's been nothing submitted since this February 6th letter according to the submission of the applic right the applicant is not respond SL does anybody actually know that you don't I just I I know that our engineer has been in contact with the OT I cannot tell anyone here with certainty whether they formally submitted an extension letter request or hey we'll get back to you what I do know is we have an application we have not received any uh uh indication that it's been withdrawn um to to Mr McQueen's point if it was we'd have to resubmit and we'd resubmit all the same materials and application materials and plan materials and follow through all the regular protocols we would have to with the do2 and also Mr Sim's question you don't know if any additional ritten materials have been provided do in respond that's correct can you excuse me I have to plug ontop I have to plug in the laptop right there oh yeah right are there any other questions that the board has the app oh I'm not on the well I'm sorry okay are there any other questions of the applicant that the board has before we hear whether or not the applicant has a rebuttal and uh and if not before they proceed to a summation before we go through the relief requested the conditions address that and ultimately deliberate and vote I'm sorry ultimately ultimately ultimately deliver vote [Music] and if there's nothing do you want to ask Council if he has any rebuttal and if not if he wants to proceed with summation yeah I I don't have any rebuttal um you know we've certainly heard the the comments and and appreciate the comments of our neighbors um I do have a closing statement it's going to be a very brief closing statement uh although I I am wondering Mr Warner we should have a clarification as it relates uh to the uh to the relief uh we certainly acknowledge as it relates to relief um we have a couple things uh we are fully compliant uh with the parking requirement as it relates to R rsis I'm sorry with respect to the Redevelopment plan uh we do technically have a DI Minimus uh exception from the rsis standards my notes had indicated that the Minimus exception and the term Dom Minimus is what the rsis uses no one's making a judgment about how important it is or isn't okay that's not my term that's what rsis uses they call it a the Minimus exception uh the uh the deviation I have is 134 provided 164 uh minimum required uh under under under the resaling standard the residential site Improvement standards okay is that the correct deviation or magnitude that sounds like the magnitude okay correct so that's one item that well we're compliant it would it really boils down to in the old days you had to submit to DCA DCA doesn't take those submitt or those submittal are no longer required for their for their approval purposes uh we also have deviation that that did pop up because we changed just back on that that 164 that's before E credits right I'm sorry that's before electronic electric vehicle credits I believe you are correct so it might not be as wide a discrepancy correct okay how many we need so we have it on record we need to understand the I know it is on the record because we've gone through it um I knew somebody was going to ask me this question number one yeah want to determine the credit against the4 they need 16 ready I'm sorry um I can't he hear Mr that's Bob brightley or the board's engineer go ahead Bob right so um if you include the election vehicle parking spaces the residential component requires 122 parking spaces that's what I have for R oh sorry that's I'm sorry it's hard for me to to hear a little bit can I get the last the residential compon with residential second standards the project the number I have is 132 parking spaces 164 units that's for the residential component and then the commercial component oh no that's not that doesn't come in the play for RSI correct so do they actually comply do they actually the math my head got them I wouldn't leave them any parking spaces for the commercial the 68 units requires 102 parking spaces under the Redevelopment yeah yes but but for the RSI it's exception is is there any deviation or not yes there is and what is the deviation my numbers for for the residential compon of the project they require 132 providing 102 correct 102 okay the with that magnitude of deviation correct okay so that's the deviation no no then okay are there any EV credits that could applied to the requirement did you include the EV we've got seven EV spaces initially the Project's going to require um 16 Make Ready spaces that's 15 % of the required 102 resal okay it has to be installed I'm sorry can I get that one more time six have to be installed immediately immediately then been three years there's an add additional six that within six years the final four have to be installed sorry can I get the last thing it's speak up please Bob this is all in our report but just to clarify again they have to provide 16 spaces so within six initially within three years they have to install an additional six and within six years they have to install the final four so does the 30 space deviation get reduced by virtue of their agreement to provide those electric vehicle charging spaces and make ready spes no no more than 10% can be reduced so that's 102 that's 10 that brings their parking requirement for a residential down to 122 right that's what you said okay so now is it a 20 space deviation that they are requesting for rsis purposes to the extent it's applicable well Implement 10 yeah but they said I guess my question is whether rsis recognizes law that's the question yeah I mean it's that's the law it would have to be recognized by RS because the overarching policy is to require EVS Mak sense that I just the credit is recogniz I'm trying to get so 122 versus 102 at 20 space to the extent that the rsis is exemption to the extent it's required not withstanding uh uh the representation that CCA doesn't require anymore that's one you say 20 spaces arguable deviation what but they are compliant with the r they are compliant with that's what I and if it's okay I mean if we ask questions this has been four months a lot of these situations are hold so oh yeah oh this is we haven't even got the stipulations this is the relief requested so you got that rightous exception from our ass right to the extent applicable that's the magnitude of the deviation correct Council that's correct okay thank thank you we also have a deviation that was picked up uh and we discussed it during architectural testimony we are implementing Gamel roofs which were actually one of the recommendations and Mr Zabo you can correct me I think you're only allowed to have flat roofs or slope roofs it didn't include a gamber roof which I'm not really sure what the difference is because it's a sloping roof structure uh I believe everyone was comfortable at least with that roof design and recogniz I'm sorry design standard waiver not a VAR an exception not exception and that is required Mr Sao notwithstanding the fact that a flat or pitch roof is permitted because a Gamel R is interpreted to be something other than flat or pitch that's the interpretation from our planner and you captured that what's that you've captured that it's really I captured that is the applicant uh does the applicant concur that that relief is required yes okay that's two design standard I don't know why that's not considered a pitch roof but I'll leave that to never um and then lastly uh we still we have the issue of uh of height height of the building uh we are compliant height relative to uh to feet uh it is and remains our position uh we are compliant as it relates to stories uh this design this project and while it has changed architectural changes Etc uh this has always had this design uh with the four levels and the lower level of parking that is on the the back side of the building uh it was part of presentations that were made during the Redevelopment planning process uh it was part of a presentation that was made I believe before this planning board before for the Redevelopment agreement was executed back in 2023 um so over the course of that time we believe that that is the base I know there were discussions last month about it being something that either the board is going to interpret or make a determination whether you believe uh it requires variance Rel would be C variance we are talking about stories we are not talking about height in in terms of feet uh which is the measure that you know delineates between a c and d variance it would technically be a deviation from the Redevelopment plan uh uh since we're not under traditional zonings but the local Redevelopment and Housing law the Redevelopment plan is the zoning but in essence it would be a it would equate to the C variant criteria for that deviation if indeed it's interpreted as five stories versus four we we disc discuss this at at the last meeting and the discussion centered around the information that was presented at the time went to the council um design hasn't wavered or changed from what was incorporated into the agreement and into the plan we didn't have the actual dimensions and things like that so that's why it was worried the way it was but I accept the applicant's interpretation that we established before at 408 and that's how we're determining height because of the grades and and cross grad that occurring there it was a challenge to come up with language and better work that's the language we came up with are you saying Mr Sao that height was determined to be from the 408 foot predevelopment grade both uh in linear feet height as well as in stories is that your interpretation that was the that was the way the project was viewed when it was developed yes I thought we came down not just not saying any of that we came down to look we do need to prepare and as a a variance from the five story the five story aspect based on the Merit but the point is what problem we we I thought we agreed that and and your report says it John that that a variance is needed for story initially because we measured it but then I when you looked at it in perspective of what how this project evolved you know the afri position made [Music] sense oh sorry the project is the literal language says four stories and uh you know whether that was uh something that wasn't considered when they looked at the diagrams it says four stories now whether entitled to a variance on that is a different question if you look at the Vision that you cited last week that's not in the plan but it is in the general corre Zing it deals with what happens when the property slopes away from the primary Street this is not the primary do not SP away from the primary street I'm Sor this not not Prim in this case but I think should you choose to do so you could look at that and say under the I can't quote the language for variances that the uh that to variance on that because of the geographical nature of the property and it doesn't the language of the Redevelopment plan permits the board to Grant can I um development plan perits the board to Grant C variance is based on the criteria of FL which is based on some physical nature of hardship that presented to the pr strict application ofine or the C2 balancing test whether or not the benefits of gring belief outweigh substantial detriments whether the benefits so that is the that is the flexible SC so maybe if they may the application to the variance I consider it but I understand what you're saying case could be made but that's up to the bo I'm sorry I didn't kind of was talking we at the same time can I get that no it's it's a board interpretation and board can consider the slope the intent of the plan where it's oriented the fact that the frontage on m road is not the principal Frontage that the the deviation is not substantial facing the railroad and those are considerations the board uh can can deliberate on two things you got to decide whether it's needed and if so you got to decide whether it's granted that's simple the applicants taking a different position saying it's not needed you heard from the planner you decide but you got and vote and I oh I'm sorry again in in in regard to the Redevelopment plan you I think we're breezing over the fact and and I think the applicant is saying it's not needed because you know the design intent wasn't there or you know it was taken into account when it was uh the Redevelopment plan was put together but the Redevelopment plan itself in Building height has one issued one uh topic on the elevation of being 408 but then it has four items that relate to the number of storage so there was thought that was put into it and you know whether it slopes away and whether it was uh part of the original design and didn't come up somehow that's one thing but you know you can't have both you know if both of the criteria are there they should be met as far as I'm concerned uh or relief should he asked for it right well couple things I do just want to make clear uh marown road is under the Redevelopment plan the primary road so that is how it is designated so so that is the road we are sloping away from uh we will certainly I'm not going to stand on principle we'll certainly uh amend our application to request the variance relief in the alternative to the extent it's necessary uh we do believe that variance relief can be granted uh both under uh the C1 hardship criteria uh due to the configuration of the property due to the Topography of the property Etc uh uh that that creates this grade differential from marst down Road where we always interpreted you're going to have four stories uh and the property drops off um certainly uh you know the board can look at that part of its charge is to to view uh whether uh the positives outweigh uh the negative impacts that are associated with it uh and we believe uh that that that is certainly the case in this regard uh we are providing the uh parking for this project and structured parking to get cars off the road uh to to suit the development and to meet the parking needs uh that are established in the ordinance and the densities the minimum square footage of commercial space and the like we do not believe that the grant of this variance relief uh would uh substantially impair the intent and purpose of Zone plan and zoning ordinances Bernardsville certainly doesn't uh impair in our opinion the the intent uh as it relates to um to this particular Redevelopment plan and the vision the burrow Council had when it designated the area in need of Redevelopment in 2022 uh went through about a year of of design on this ultimately uh coming up with a Redevelopment plan that I believe is adopted in May of 2023 uh we also believe it would apply the flexible C2 variants we are relating uh specifically to one specific property it's criteria one we believe there are multiple purposes of the Landes law they are set forth at njsa 4055 D2 those are really the purposes of zoning and some of those purposes and I don't have my my zoning ordinance in front of me right now uh but uh but it speaks to a mix of uh development opportunities both res you know including residential commercial development one the criterias I'm stating what the law is uh Hal and I believe I can site to what the law is uh relative to uh to to what is there and I'll ask Mr Zabo what his thoughts are on it as the as the board's planner um and for the same reasons we do not believe uh that there's substantial detriment to the public good as a result of this um and believe that the positives outweigh the the detriments Mr Warren can you deliberate on whether we think it's needed you said there were two questions we have to answer well in the context of deliberations when we get there yes um but as I have it as I have it there are as many as three deviations from the Redevelopment plan I don't have any others Mr Zoo Mr brightley uh do you have any others I have one more be bear with me I just want to see if the professionals have any others before we ask the board members do you have any others even potential potentially something that the Board needs to talk about is the emergency generator language plan what Happ what evolved was the original plan ordinance was introduced by Council on the referral to the planning board there were a series of recommendations the board made to amend the plan which is an Ence to the council there were about dozen comments or so that was sent not all of them were Incorporated in the plan but in an effort to work with planning board the goverment body adopted most of them and one of them was and I believe it was at the suggestion of the chairman that electrical emergency generator be placed be incorporated into the development which they now they have but that there's a requirement that uh there be Congress to each um unit which uh if not something that's required by code as I understand the code uh and was something that came from this board was incorporated plan and that's the Genesis of that now I don't know the applicate you know can can talk to that but I'm not sure whether they that's the case here or whether it's practically being requireed that level of connectivity doesn't it say that emergency power will be provided to the residential units if I'm reading it correctly uh and if I have the correct one on page 31 it says emergency power sufficient to provide interim power to the residential portion of the development shall be provided in the event that electrical service to the development is interrupted this requirement shall include the running of conduits to each unit within the proposed development okay yeah so from our perspective we're going to view that as a deviation uh we are not proposing full power into every unit I I know of of no multifam project uh that provides full power uh I think it would overload circuits Etc what we are proposing uh which is standard which is which is code uh is that we will provide Power for all light safety systems emergency lighting Etc including the elevators as well I don't believe the elevators are actually code required but we are providing that's where we digress that's not what was requested right but but so to the extent that the language cited was accurate from the development plan it appears as if that would be a assuming the other three are deemed to be deviations that would be a fourth deviation from the Redevelopment plan isn't that correct Council for the app that' be correct okay so that's as many as four there's another one you got no okay there's a requirement in the plan that the entrances to all buildings be either on the primary Street or to a public uh space the entrances to the building are into the private space then they don't comply that provision of plan council do you want to double check the Redevelopment plan for the accuracy of that whether or not that's in the plan and if so to the extent to which you're uh you believe you are compant or perhaps stipulate that you are not comping remember where that was I think it's number two under architect primary I guess I just viewed that as primary entrances for commercial we do I'm sorry the Primary Residential one right on some general orientation well the building yeah I'm sorry I couldn't the building how is it not conf I mean there's a Archway there's a walkway in the entrance to the building is is find entr because the archway is the way into the building that's why the archway is the way into the which gets you to the entrance because you know where John this this is most design identify where that comes from is the downtown design guidelines and where we want to have the storefront basing the street understand I understand I'm a Lal and that's where it said [Music] cover if you capture it it would be considered a design okay not a no under AR I'm sorry didn't hear the last it's under the architectural session chairman our court reporter asked if she could take a five minute break she's been going for an hour and a half acceptable yeah all right do we need a motion to extend are we getting close to the I'll move to extend yes been an hour 11:30 sorry