##VIDEO ID:W2j0F4U-dHI## e e e e e e e e e e e e e wonderful okay all right everybody so I've got 601 so why don't we go ahead and call our meeting to order we are here for our special commission meeting today is Thursday November 7 2024 Madam clerk would you please call the rle for us may gr here sorry vice mayor Huntington here commissioner Amsler here commissioner Holland Holland commissioner Kennedy here you have a quum great thank you madam clerk let's go ahead and do our Pledge of Allegiance please all right thank you so before we get started on public well before we get started on public comment I just like to congratulate commissioner Huntington commissioner Kennedy and are soon to be commissioner Samaria on the election results from Tuesday so thanks for all of your hard work thanks for running and putting on a good campaign and we look forward to uh having our new commission seated um as soon as we are soon as able if it's Tuesday Tuesday it is okay great um all right so uh our special commission meeting here the subject of which is going to be of our inter Village manager so let's go ahead and open up public comment uh we'll start with the public comment here in the in the Log Cabin um and just as a reminder um please provide us with your name and address and public comment is limited to 3 minutes the mic issues continue hey all right thank you okay uh Dan marot uh 10 11530 griffy Boulevard first off I'm looking forward to be serving with this Commission on Tuesday so I really look forward to that um I want to thank commissioner harand for taking my seat and you know serving in my area uh okay we need to pick up a temporary uh I believe that we need to table uh hiring the temporary city manager uh to I get in on Tuesday because I think as a commissioner I should be able to make this selection um there is no rush to do this uh we need to have a complete commission uh we have we' have had bad press in the past in reference to past admin administrations so I think that we need to take our time picking the city manager we have 10 applications cuz there was 12 uh that we need to study do our job and pick the right person there's an article about the Pres City uh pres temporary city manager that I think all Commissioners need to read so I think we need to really study this uh I believe no temp no temporary city manager should be making any decisions about firing hiring filling permanent positions because he's not going to be there much longer and we're going to have uh a perminent city manager everything that the tempor temporary manager does hiring firing any decision should be presented to the commission so if you decide you're going to allow it I think that any decision that a temporary city manager is making should be brought in front of uh the commission because someone that is going to be in office for 30 days can affect the residents for the next three years the Pres the present temp temporary manager has been in only three weeks and there as alarm and issues that this commission needs to investigate I not pro police I Am pro Village and residents so please don't rush we as a commissioner need to do a better job in picking city managers again there is no rush to do this we do not need to have the media come to the village and do prad Press On us the Mi Herald was here at biscan Park today I don't know if anybody knows that but they were here today uh in case you don't know like I said in case you don't know the city Miami held was here today doing a story I don't know what the story was about but they were here today so what I'm asking is that this commission takes its time we have 10 applications we need to look at and we got in January is hopefully is one we're going to be picking the next city manager I believe and I again Mr H commissioner harand is doing a good job but I think that I should we there's no reason not to wait until Tuesday until we have a full commission to do this again thank you so there's no was to do this we need to do a better job in investigating and I heard the commission say that they want it to be more thorough so we need to be more thorough there's no wor to be uh having it uh temporary city manager if you're going to have it be sure you put guidelines that he can't do no firing can't do no hiring can't any decisions that's going to affect this Commission because what he does in 30 days can affects the residents for three years thank you any other comment here in the uh cabin before we move over to zoom seeing none okay we'll go ahead and turn over to zoom think we have one Mr Anderson yes it's Bob Anderson 11905 Northeast 11th place and out of the applicants that you have and I'm really grateful that we have a lot of applicants for this position there is only one applicant that really has the true credentials that's been a city manager of a couple of different cities has been on our one of our boards has lived here for over for a very very long time very well aware of the shortcomings that our city has and that's Albert childis and my opinion is he is a top pick for being the interim manager thank you okay are there any other comments on Zoom before we move on see none okay all right thanks everyone so uh let's go ahead and move on and uh move into the portion are there any um commission reply to the public comment at this time before we move on to the selection I don't have a reply but uh could I ask Brad a question please here good evening everyone hey Brad uh Brad wisman is our village attorney um commissioner like Sam samary brought up a couple of points can you clarify for us the difference between an interum uh City Village manager and a village manager and how we're allowed to uh dictate how their roles might be different well there there really isn't a difference um your inim village manager would be taking on the responsibilities of of of the manager until you until you place a permanent manager in that city um with regards to um commissioner elect samario's comments about putting restrictions on hiring firing um managerial decisions for a lack of better terms um your your Charter partic specifically prohibits the commission from interfering with a with a manager's daily operations of of the um of the village including employment issues so but what Dan is suggesting would be a charter of violation if we were to do that it would be yes sir okay thank you I just wanted everyone who's listening to be clear on that and I do want to make one reply to Dan directly Dan we do have a full commission there are five Commissioners sitting here on the day as commissioner Holland is serving in the full authority of the position uh this evening until you step in and get sworn in so we do have a full commission here and some of the things you're suggesting would actually be Charter violations I just want to make sure you're clear on that thank you we have any other commission replied this time before we move on okay all righty um all right so let's uh let's get into our discussion on the appoint appointment of the interim um Mr Mayor yes I apologize sure one of your applicant can't hear you Pamela the applicant Mr Stanley haon uh wants no longer wants to be considered enle hawor he's withdrawn his name from yes sir okay all right great that's the one you emailed us about it yes okay just wanted to put it on the record we also had an email or at least I received an email from Mr Patterson Mr Patterson removing his uh interest in the position okay all right so that's two that have uh voluntarily withdrawn their name from the consideration um all right so we talked a little bit about format I think the last time we were all together um I and I'd like to keep this kind of an open discussion so we can all kind of voice our our our opinions on our selections but the way that we've done this in the past is is we've I think we've kind of gone down the commission line we've kind of identified our top candidates we try to find some uniformity um within those choices I I personally foresaw this kind of happening the same way I'm open to alternative opinions um but um for anyone that's uh listening or may listen later anyone that's here that's not familiar with um with how we've done this in the past and why we've done it this way um is due to Florida Sunshine logs of course the commission can't discuss anything about any of the candidates or or the position um outside of a public meeting so uh the way that we've done this in the past is um we all do our diligence before we get here we talk to candidates we VI resumés we determine in our opinions what are um what would be our top selections in in nominating for the position um and then we try to find some uniformity and and go from there and I think that would be a good time um if any of those candidates would like to speak um I know we have some of them here this evening with us and and I appreciate both those candidates that are with us on zoom and those that are with us here in in the Log Cabin um so that's kind of the way that I thought we would do it um and just kind of leave it open to anyone else if anyone has an alternative Viewpoint I'd be happy to listen I'm fine with that okay all right um anyone uh volunteering to get us started I'll go if you like I'll go super quick okay so first of all I'm glad to see we got a bunch of applicants and those who aren't considered this evening I hope they apply for the the permanent position in the coming months when the commission works on that um I will say that when I looked at the applications myself I gave priority to the people who have either work experience Andor live in the state of Florida because it's a temporary position um and uh I'm going to make a a comment about some policy stuff later if and when we talk to some of these candidates and I have some questions that I'll be prepared to ask whoever we decide to talk to in no particular order the applicants that I would be interested in in uh all of us looking at as a group are Lawless day Sid childrenis and brown so Lawless day childr in brown is that right Sid children BR day Lawless got it okay uh your list is very similar to mine um I will say that I kind of considered parameters very along those same lines um and um you know by no means does does it preclude anyone that we're not considering now to reapply for the permanent position but um I do agree that I think that for an interm role that could be as short as a month two months 3 months could be as long as 6 months that it's important uh that we do have some experience in both managerial positions and particularly down here in the State of Florida so that's important um so um based on that um let me just see I think I I think I had the same list Mac I did I had the same list so you have each have four candidates in your list yes um spoke up next so you gotta go okay uh thank you for everybody that I got the chance to speak uh with regarding this position for the interest that you all showed for the Village um I actually have three uh selected move for the next round will be chis many Sid and Mr Brown I'll go uh mine's very much shorter it's only two candidates it's uh Sid and chis I weighed local uh very heavily I also did some research on every candidate and that's how I remove the other three of your candidates uh Jonathan and Mac last John similar thoughts to everybody else on the day in in position clearly local is the way to go um based on what I know about uh Mr chis it's it's in my it my vote is his to but I would again want to listen to anyone who is local and knows not just Florida Miami knows our area so that's that's where I'm leaning okay well we have some uniformity that's good yeah um all right so uh I guess at this point then go ahead I just have one question and that was at a previous meeting there was talk of trying to make the salary more competitive um does long-term salary budget shortfall factor into this at all I I I would think that for the amount we're talking about it probably doesn't mean if a candidate's aiming for I'm just making up numbers 160 and we approved 120 are they are they completely out of the running based on that even for an interm role or are we willing to overlook that in the short term to get the best this budget getting long way of saying is budget a hard obstacle is it a hard stop it's above a budget I think that's part of the conversation we have to have I mean we we agreed a certain amount uh definitely on the budget you know and we made an incre an an increment to what we had before for the manager's position so I think that I would consider that based on the candidates that we decide to go with and then negotiations after yeah um per your direction the ad was advertised at 100,000 salary only no benefits there you for the in for the interim so John it's it's a different conversation when we hire the permanent manager but for the interim position we advertise an amount and they all know that's the amount and do we have a time frame that I mean those of you have been through this before is six months really time frame we're thinking or I I think the well that's part of the discussion we have to have after we select an interum but I I mean just in my own head you know if we're looking at a similar time frame it' probably be a couple weeks to put out the advertisement a couple weeks to collect resumés with the holidays it probably at the earliest puts us into January at the earliest yeah I think that's a conversation to have once we select yes so different opinions of that definitely good point okay all right so if there's anywh in particular we want to start but um we've all identified our our current temporary um interim manager with Mr childis um I'm sure we've all got an opportunity to work with Al over the last couple of weeks um certainly I'm grateful for him stepping in and and helping us out in our time of need um I don't know that I have any I so I think the ideas just kind of will will you know work down through each commissioner with respect to each candidate I don't know that I have any specific questions for you Al we've we've worked together already um a little bit in since you've joined us may I ask a procedural question sure before we just jump into Al we have um identified the short list for each of us might we now just Whittle it down even further it seems to me there are two names in common on every list it's chis and Sid might we just narrow it down to those two and start a process from there yeah so I yeah if I may I kept an accounting of all of our our our tally if you will that's yeses for Sid for everybody yeses for children's for everybody there are three yeses for Brown so he could potentially still be in the running uh although I me and uh commissioner John uh Holland sorry we uh we don't agree on that one and then there are no yeses for three yeses on the other candidates so it it whittles it down to three automatically there so very happy just to consider the two that we all agree on and go from there and if we don't come to some agreement there we could always go back and look at someone else but yeah so commonality there yeah I know I agree you kind of took the words out of my head I started I started the process I think um speaking it into existence well enough reason I started with Al was because we all five had Al and the next idea was to go with uh with with Mr Sid here so um so yes so let's do that so let's start with with Al um so that's I that's why where I got started Al so my apologies let me back up um Al we've had an opportunity to work together a little bit I don't know that I have any specific questions for you you know you brought your experience already to it you know your your experience kind of precedes you and you you live here in the village um you you've done it before you've got the experience and um I guess I'd really just open it up to any questions or um uh any for any of the commissions that they'd like to ask you um in this format so um I guess we'll just start down here and go this way if that's all right um yes please yes please is it okay I call you Al everybody calls you Al so I'm going to start calling you Al I've been calling you Mr manager very for um working there you go good evening good evening thank you so much so so far for what you've done it's been how how long couple weeks three weeks yeah almost almost a month now FL right um so a considerable amount of time for I'm sure a lot of stuff that you got the opportunity to see across the different departments and I think in the interactions you and I had have had already I can already tell those years of experience you've had and you've accumulated ac across a different job positions you've held uh so I'm very comfortable speaking with you I feel uh very well advised when we speak um and I've always found for you to be very proactive and sort of um giving an answer or researching uh about an answer to a question that I might have so for that I'm very appreciative heading again for stepping forward for the temporary interim position now moving forward um I think one thing I'm going to ask both of the candidates that seem to be listed Mr Sid being one of them here as well they'll talk next um is how do you see yourself long term and this is something I ask of you you know um over the phone so this is an interim position is the village in your plans longterm and and why sort of in your path of career that you've done so far right so commissioner when you asked me that question I had told you that uh I think the as the interim position I think it's a a great opportunity for the interim city manager Village manager to get it a feel for the village and for you to get a feel for the for the interim for the for the manager and to make sure it's a a great fit before you go on further down the path and and select the uh Village manager some some some uh cities when they're selecting the intern manager they let it be known that that position is just that an interim Village manager and that you that that applicant cannot apply for the permanent position that that's they're only selecting that person for the interim so I think that that's the decision you need to make uh as a whole if you if that's what you want or if you looking for the interm manager to also be able to apply for the for the long-term position so I I I would uh certainly if I if it's a good good fit if it's going to be a good marriage I certainly would apply for the long-term position I I'm as as has been said my wife and I have raised our two boys here this is our family this is our home uh we've been in the village over over over 40 years we continue want to make it a great place still live thank you and and um just bringing this questions back up because I think they're important at the end of the day and they are important for me and I want to make sure that's on record um and so the there is an opportunity for you to do this long term and that that's huge in terms of your so far the fit that you've had this P past month if you can give a little bit of uh of um sort of your experience through the village so far if you can well I I think first of off you got a a great uh uh a great City attorney he really knows his his uh his stuff he's got a great experience he knows uh the workings of a government and what the charter says what the statute say say he's has guided me along the path in this last 30 days and he's a a great source of information in the village clerk too she's has been able to help me um I think your department your the rest of your department heads they're very hardworking employees we've got a great staff I think there's areas that need Improvement there's some things that are broken that need to be fixed we have talked about Sops yeah and uh you know I found some some surprises in the last 30 days that uh we've had had to deal with but um you know there's some challenges ahead and I'm aware of those challenges and we willing to take them on wonderful and if I may the last questions for me would be um so what what's considered an interim manager so some people speak about three months six months what what in your opinion is the relatively needed time for an intering manager in you know to be able to um have in order to look for that permanent position but I think we also talked about this so you the Board needs to decide uh you know what what they want to do a a national search or just a Statewide search or or or or leave it to just south Florida so if you're looking to do um South Florida search it's not as complicated uh if you're doing doing a national search that's going to be a little more extensive um if you just limit it to the State of Florida um also less complicated but I think uh you need to decide too if the if the interterm village manager is allowed to apply for the for the long-term position for the permanent position it's it's kind of a conflict for that person to be sitting and and going through the process and reviewing some of the applications so you're going to necessarily have to go out with an outside vendor to to review the applications to review the back backgrounds making our recommendations to you and that's going to take some time so I'm I'm looking at maybe three to six months to if you're going to go that route perfect thank you that's it for me for now I appreciate thanks commissioner Mr manager um already mentioned I I don't really have too much to to ask you here tonight we've already kind of established a pretty good working relationship we've been keeping uh keeping each other up to date on the things that are happening and I and I appreciate it most mostly I just I very much appreciate your willingness to step in in our time of need uh and lend us um the benefit of your years of experience and not just your years of experience in the managerial position but your years of experience as a resident um which is really helpful uh so I I very much appreciate it you know I certainly U certainly wouldn't put a name forward tonight if I wasn't comfortable with that individual serving in the position um so as of now I don't have anything to ask you with the with the commission here this evening so I'll go ahead and pass it along but thank you very much thank you no questions about this I've know now res also our have some shared past experiences uh wife and my father used to work together Kimber and hyon yes yeah some years ago go back um I have no questions at the time except um you don't want to run for the hills that's a good sign yes yeah obviously it was it was healthy to hear you say that weing is good things are working but you identify some things that are broken and that that's that's a good mix ofit positive and also like go after thank you Al I uh I also don't really have any questions but I just want to say that I did not know you before this process I when we lost our manager I went out and researched and looked for a good interim solution I was directed your way rather quickly you came highly recommended by locals local Village managers retirees in the field uh and I listened to what our residents said through the budget process when they advocated for and they they pushed us to fund a an experience manager pay more for experience pay more for a local person who knows our our laws knows the State of Florida knows how to how to manage in my imediate County here is somebody who does know that and and what I've learned through the last 30 days is experience counts real experience counts I heard that someplace along the last month or so but experience counts and real experience counts um so I don't really don't have any questions I just say that I I've I've my eyes have been opened in the last month to all the changes we should have been making in the past and and I'm excited for the changes you could bring to this Village in the future thank you thank you hey uh a couple of quick things for you so Al and I have been meeting regularly and talking a lot and we've have a great relationship already I think um so he's kind of the one to beat for me here tonight as well so uh thanks for filling in for free the free part was really nice for a while and that's going to change here I'm going to guess soon um talk to us about Key West just for the record can you tell us what went down there you were the city manager there for a year I know that uh your uh your livelihood can be a volatile kind of a thing and you operated the whims of people like us um can you just kind of tell us what happened down there you you were there for a year I was there um approximately 14 months so the the I had a contract for a four-year contract and the commission um I I had an evaluation uh in June no it was no excuse me it was in April um we had a June meeting I thought everything was going well a few weeks after that I got a call that there was um four votes to terminate the contract was is there anything that we should know about that is nefarious in any way or is it just what was going on in the commission I think that that's a private conversation I would have with you um um you are applying for the full-time job so that was one of my questions for you that is your intent correct yes if if if you desire to see me apply for that I I um talk to me about uh an interim manager and uh their role in policy changes we talked about you know hiring an interim manager and I think I'm the one that used the phrase keep the lights on for us until we hire a permanent manager this is all happening at the very beginning of budget a new fiscal year for uh for our budget um everything's fully funded we're all excited we decided what things we want to get done and we threw money at them uh and we're anxious for that to get done but an interim person you know is stepping in not having the history of that and not being part of that process what in your opinion how should that work how should an interim manager um uh engage with the budget for the for the things that we're trying to get done for the year and specifically and separately in terms of policy changes implementing policy changes well I I think whoever's sitting in that seat whether it's for three months or permanent or whatever that person as you just heard from your village attorney should follow the charter and follow the ordinances and follow the direction that's giving at the a monthly commission meetings so that's that's what I would do as the intern Village manager communicate back to the commission yes tell us what's going on do do the LTC our Council and advice on things and ltc's and keep you informed yes yeah got a couple of ltcs recently that was nice right okay [Music] um I spoke with one of your former colleagues at length yesterday who just I had to end the call I said Trish I can't talk anymore I'm sorry I gotta go Trish Walker thinks very highly of you Trish Walker for those of you who don't know her is a very long-term Village resident as well she and I used to work together maybe you could tell us how you know Trish and how what you guys did together she was the CFO and the um in charge of the budget for um Miami Beach and Miami Beach has over 2,000 uh employees and I don't know how huge that budget is I think it's you know um bigger than ours yeah it's way way bigger than your yours I think 900 million or something but she also had prior experience she was the uh ran the airport for Brower County and uh she's long-term V has lived in the village longer than my wife and I have lived in the village and she's a great person we used to commute together because we live so closely so we got to know each other over the years and and uh she's a great yeah she has a great experience in uh in financing and in local government and I've over the years have called her when I've gotten stuck and she has great experience with bonds and I would call her for advice on bonds too so she's a a very um accomplished person who happens to live in a village live retired and living a very low-key lifestyle now I've tried to get her involved in some things and I was shot down every time but I was very happy to talk to Trish yesterday and and hear such good things about you right okay that's all I have thank you guys uh Mr Mary if you might can I respond to that yeah sure can commissioner Kennedy have a question to ask you actually since you brought up Key West did you uh happen to watch the meeting where okay okay I just want to see that I watched it as well and what I saw on that meeting was the outpouring of support from residents which is vitally important in this Village and we hear all the time that to be out and engaging the residents is huge and to me that was something that I watched every second of that meeting and I loved seeing the residents that came out in Key West and talked about Mr childis and how they they loved him in that in that community so I just wanted to point that out as well briyan I wasn't going after him on that I was it people are aware of it and it came up in public comment tonight and I wanted to give Al a chance to address it that's that's fine as the only member of the de family roots in Key West I can say not surprising the Bubba system yes this is part for of course good people trying their best doesn't work out because you just rub the certain people the wrong way um I am stating that for the record that's how my hometown works so you know five generation so you know people don't always do things by the books down there and sometimes that do thank you Mr manager thank you very much for your time um I don't think we have anything else for right now so um we'll keep uh we'll keep the discussion going but thank you very much thank you okay uh so our other uh other candidate Mr Mr s um would you uh take a step up for us good evening thank you for being with us tonight thank you I'm gonna go ahead and turn it over so we can do the same same thing that you just saw so commissioner go ahead thank you for being here it was great to speak to you the other day and get to know you a little bit better you have an impressive resum um but this would be your first position um as a city manager right so if you can talk a little bit of the background as to why and how you got here to bisin park so I really became enamored with public service but I not only the policy side the the administrative side of of things so Miami Lakes was is is very unique it's I think the only contract City in Miami day County very similar we follow the model uh in Weston where the vast majority of our services are contracted out 30 where 35,000 residents um and we have about 30 employees eight of those are 35 employees eight of those are crossing guards um but as mayor I played a very important role in the contract City uh portion I was the the the final say in dispersing uh any funds to any contractor over $5,000 so my my eight years maybe dispersed over $100 million uh in various contracts and what that did for me was force me uh into to the Performance Management side right so I I did everything from cleaning the drains with our teams to to see what was going on to driving go going to check out our uh our teams our contractors that were cutting the grass to uh our teams at at midnight our our police officers that that were at the midnight shift rode with them uh with I was with our teams as well when we would drive around checking out the uh the light bulbs so that really sparked in me um because I did the public policy side for a long time I was a Nate in the Florida legislature uh for seven years had a chance to write several state laws appropriate money uh in a in a multi-billion dollar budget but in that process in Miami Lakes really uh pushed me to see Public Service in a different light and that's why I apply today I saw biscane Park as a community very similar to mine where you all have treel line streets uh very tight knit uh where everybody knows each other and and I I really lik that and when I saw it pop up I I thought it'd be a good segue in my public service career to continue that and and add some value here to the Village thank you and you had a term for how long were you serving at mam Lakes 12 years 12 years and it just ended on Tuesday Tuesday at 11:59 p.m. well thank you for your service thank you I'm sure everyone's appreciative of that um so I don't have a lot of questions that you and I spoke a bit and I'm clear on on your profile I think um what the question mark here is you're jumping on the to the other side of of the table um with the understanding of what it feels uh on one side that was sort of our experience with a previous manager as well as well he was a commissioner uh in his own town um and he didn't have experience but you definitely have um so Florida experience and you certainly have contacts and you know um we've seen each other here and there I'm pretty sure in the league of cities we never really um talked in detail but I find you your experience your contacts your background and your interest in the village very interesting and I appreciate you for being here um and I'm just going to leave it at that for right now thank you but thank you thank you again good evening Mr s how are you all as well excellent have a beautiful Village Hall here well thank you it is it's quite unique and quite special to us here um so um kind of a follow up to one of the the questions that commissioner Amor had asked is um and you answered it a little bit um uh how you kind of see the the change in the role between um kind of the elected side versus the managerial side and um I I'm just kind of curious in hearing your perspective on on how you foresee um kind of changing that position from moving from the policy side to kind of the carrying out the policy side you know how uh maybe if you could just kind of talk to us a little bit about how you think how you feel that that will go and how you plan on kind of attacking um just a different role kind of within a similar system look the the the first thing I would do is look at your strategic plan and and really focus on that um we we I left Miami Lakes we started a strategic plan 10 years ago uh 90 90% either done uh or in progress in our community um that's over 100 plus projects and to me the segue uh would be very easy because of two very important aspects a I I used to be a staffer uh but also I I own a business where I am everything I'm HR I'm the administrator I I manage 20 staff members uh we and we do uh relatively well um so so for me moving into the management role would be a a seamless transition especially knowing how important it is to see through a strategic plan and to focus on strategic planning uh and I think that's the most important part in in the success of uh of any city of any Village of any town it's very true I mean that's impressive to hear that you're not you get 90% of the way through um through your strategic plan and those efforts um so uh I I appreciate that thank you um so just kind of curious um with Miami Lakes how of course Miami Lakes is is a little bigger than we are um how Reliant or how how much did you depend on in Miami Lakes uh Miami Lakes on like State funding or County funding of certain projects um because of course you know we're all residential our money all comes from from taxes um and and that aspect is something I think we want to lean a little bit more on or we'd like to see some more um some more production in that area and raising money from from sources where it becomes available so could you talk to us a little bit about um how much uh Miami Lakes relied on those kind of alternative sourcing methods or um funding sources um and your experience in in in kind of creating those relationships um or or personally how you've been involved in in kind of um Gathering those monies for the benefit of Miami Lakes so I'll start on the on the county level uh when I got when I was elected I saw uh an issue with with the uh with the PTP with a half cent uh sales tax uh we had a a set route we had a two buses on a set route throughout town we were forced to to pay for it in that fashion and to have a set route nobody rode the the bus and and I started questioning that until I realized the only way to change it is for me to go to the county make the change I went to go see my commissioner at the time he said uh Manny if you help me write it if you go put in the work I'll help you and I I was the one that wrote the change to the to the PTP through the CIT that allowed cities to have first mile Last Mile and On Demand Solutions hence why uh every city now in South fla in Miami day County most cities follow our lead and they have on demand Solutions and ridership increased uh 500% uh in the town uh and and also in Miami day County through the uh the impact fee process one of the opportunities I see for the village is that it's a lot of development around you all and I think the the conversation on the county level should be you all need a piece of of of the pie when it comes to the impact fees Transportation impact fee dollars uh because people are cutting through uh the village so that money should stay here I was able to do that successfully uh in Miami Lakes where we were able to negotiate with the county to keep a lot of the impact fee dollars uh in our community which it's a a major issue uh and on the third side we were able to get over I was able to write a a countywide charter uh amendment that allowed cities to manage uh special taxing districts and whatnot and we kept a lot of the funds local uh we were able to increase the uh the services to our residents while while lowering uh the cost for for lake maintenance districts and garate districts on the on the state level uh very successful obviously when I when I got in I had an advantage I was an aid for S years so when it came to working through the process uh we created a lot of great relationships from the governor all the way down and our state senator our state representative uh we brought in historic amounts of of money to the town millions of dollars uh every single year and the reason why we were successful is that before we asked for the money we made sure that we started uh the the planning process so that way when I went to my state senator my state representative and the uh and the governor we were shovel ready and I I told them look it's and it made us very competitive uh when compared to many other uh municipalities and now going to the federal level one of the things that that that helped us with uh when Congressman maras Bard uh was the chair of uh Transportation Appropriations uh federally on the house side um I I'll never forget he asked Miami day County for a plan there was no plan and he was he wasn't able to deliver hundreds of millions of dollars to our community but you know who had a plan we had one I we called him and he delivered $3 million to finalize the largest uh Transportation project uh in the town that I left it uh fully funded in in our community with various projects so uh working with our partners is is really important but also showing them that we have the wherewithal to deliver on the promises that we're asking them uh to to make on the legislative side that's great very detailed thank you very much I appreciate it um Mr said I don't think I have any other questions but I appreciate again you being here I appreciate you um being interested in the position and and that was very informative thank you very much have any questions just a few comments All positive first of all thank you for thank for your interest um please apply for the longterm position because I still think out like I'm kidding but this uh you know you never knowen so if it doesn't work out tonight please apply long term um I think you have a solid background thank you for your service in Miami Lakes I don't know how you guys um I really don't um but thank you and um I think you're on a good trajectory stay in the game please definitely know seem to have you're talking this doesn't work out something else if it's something on your own appreciate thank you good evening Mr Sid uh a lot of my questions have been answered already but one I want to touch on you touched on a little bit you're a small business owner correct mayor's Cafe mayor's Cafe uh I know that's a a demanding job you said you're the HR the manager I even said on your website you bust tables at times I do uh this is a 247 job talk to me a little bit how you're going to balance being a small-time business owner and meeting the demands of Village manager which could you know long nights weekends how how are you g to Advantage that work relationship I have uh two partners and I've already talked to them uh if I were to get uh this position or any other position in public service uh I'd hand off all the duties to them and they they take care of it with our current manager that we hired um so and I made sure that we created a lot of internal processes so they can stay in place and there wouldn't be any any hiccups but I would not be obviously busting tables or cooking anymore this would be uh my full attention and I would hand off uh a 100% of those duties to to my partners may I call you Manny of course you have to call me mac if you say if you say Commission kedy I'm going to correct you so Manny thank you very much uh they asked a lot of my questions already but a couple of real quick ones you mentioned um with great pride your strategic plan in Miami Lakes uh have you taken a look at ours and if you did what comments can you make about it very briefly um I look the the plan is very different to every city so so I I wouldn't compare it to Miami Lakes because it wouldn't be fair in terms of size uh but we went through a very lengthy process I mean we did uh first started off with a community survey uh we brought in a firm and we did an actual scientific survey that helped us identify uh the residents Priority First uh then we had two weekend uh long Retreats with all of our staff members uh the residents could sit in but it was primarily that and that point was our staff members um and the council we were in a room for about 48 hours hours total and we figured it all out put it together but the the the most important part was that helped us be successful a we we branded it we called it imagine Miami Lakes 2025 we put it on a website the other part was bringing it alive uh to to our residents so we were able to get the entire plan uh stick it into a GIS map where now every resident can see projects within close vicinity uh of their homes uh and that helped create a lot of trust and a lot of buying uh to this process and it was to the point where if you would click on one of the buttons next to your house you would see the plan you would see the the progress going forward you would see the the final dates of that project and you can ask the staffer who's supervising uh that project any questions and that part actually wasn't that expensive we worked with our our planner the website was relatively cheap but that was a very cheap way affordable way uh to create trust in the community and show folks hey this is this is what we're doing so you applied for an interim position it's a short-term position what were your plans uh I know you ran for County mayor uh what were your plans uh starting on Wednesday when you knew your term was going to end before you found out about our temporary position uh really no no plans I'm not going to lie I when I when I do something there's no plan B um because I always feel that if you have a plan B when I was mayor or when I ran for for for office that you wouldn't give it your all for your plan a so uh that's why uh I started looking in the last several weeks as to what that next step would be when I saw the the the advertisement um I said it it makes sense uh and it's a it's a good segue and um the other questions were asked and answered I appreciate it thanks if I can if I if I may jump of course of course one one of the things you and I spoke about and I asked you and I want to put it for the record for the rest of the commission to hear is your consideration for longterm in this position one of the things at least I mention is important for me it's continuity we haven't had that um we have our third manager in two years uh so that's really put us behind in terms of getting that strategic plan going um and you and I spoke a little bit of what that meant if you can just um talk about your commitment to a village of this size and the position the salary that obviously does not compare to the county and it does not compare to many other cities um longterm look I I think it's important uh to to make a long-term commitment I'd be okay making a 3 to 5 year uh commitment to see that strategic plan uh move forward and and get out the station which I think is the hardest part I mean once you get the plan moving and all the projects after that it's just you know overseeing the entire plan but uh and to me very transparently my kids go to school not too far from here uh one of them starts high school next year the other one's a a sophomore uh I have a two-year-old and a four-month-old so my wife and I are are very busy but this is a when I her and I spoke I told her I go look if if I were to get it I would like to see a a a long-term commitment and she she said yes um so I got the buying at home and from my end I i' definitely be committed uh longterm three to five year bases on at the minimum just to help you all move forward on that strategic plan because I think that's the the recipe for Success uh for a for a Municipality of any size yeah and my last one if if if it's okay um and I think we spoke about that as well um you you don't have it's not um how do you say it's not the strong mayor position in Miami Lake so you have the same power than the rest of the the commission per se and I think the question I I was I was trying to differentiate when you and I were talking about you you constantly said we we did this we did this and we did that and and there is a difference right now which is the execution part ver versus the legislation part and uh you depend on a team to do it um so how many employees were in M lakes and what was your incidence because my understanding is just like we do here we rely on the manager to do actually the things right we put the vision together we follow through we provide the oversight but the the staff is the one actually doing things so just trying to differentiate from being the one that has all the ideas and maybe you know putting it together with the rest of the commission coming to a consensus and building legislation versus who's actually doing it um how would you say that would look for us that we don't know you right we we just seen you from one side um and together with staff how how would you make that jum to action so it it was it was very unique and I mentioned the the role that I played in in contract Management in terms of dispersing funds and that was a vast majority of of uh of the of the service delivery model that we had in Miami Lakes but when I was uh elected one of things that I would do and and and the manager uh and I worked very closely on this I would visit uh every staffer every director uh almost on a weekly basis and asked how I can help uh if there was a if there was an issue in Miami day County one of our plans for an outfall uh into one of the canals was stuck I would get on the phone with them right there with staff with everybody and work it through I would go visit the county um we had an issue with police we contracted with Miami day County I went to go see uh all the administration and and County mayor at the time and I was able to negotiate all those changes that paletto bay and and color Bay also benefited from so my role was a on the accountability side and on the leadership side uh and I was able to create an environment where our staffers knew that we had their backs that I had their backs not only on the day but on the day-to-day uh challenges that existed at at the city look when we had uh when we had the incident command structure when IC came through and we had hurricane Irma I was the one sleeping at City Hall our our staff our manager and our Deputy manager they slept at a hotel and I stayed sleeping in inside of uh city hall because our residents uh would call it was 1 2 in the morning they were calling power was out I was out in the street with our police officers at at 2 amm right post storm uh making sure that our community was safe and that was the type of of uh of role that I played uh in Miami Lakes on the contract side which was a contract management side where I it felt the burden fell on me and not on staff in terms of being the final say uh on every contract but also on on the leadership and and accountability which is very similar to to the management um side to make sure that things that things happen um every day Adam thank you Mr Sid I think that's it from the commission for now um very much appreciate you being here and spending some time with us and answering some of our questions so thank you again for the interest thanks for being here and thanks for putting up with us thank you very much um okay so um I don't know that we need to go beyond the first two uh for now um but look um I'm prepared to to put forward um a motion um and I will I will preface this on the fact that again we're here for for the interim role um this is not the permanent position um so um with that said um I would put forward um um uh Mr childis to to serve in the interim position uh while we consider uh a permanent a permanent manager um so I'll I'll second that I was hoping Ryan was going to get to make the motion since he's the one who flushed him out for us Jonathan I was letting him finish talking my mic is already on interrupt the man apologies then symbolically I'll I'll I'll defer to I'll let the vice mayor have the motion then um so uh before we vote on the motion uh just a point of um procedural uh order um Brad um if you're still with us I am so sorry sorry go ahead I said I haven't left you yet excellent well thank you um as far as procedurally where we go from here for the interim contract for for Mr childis um assuming we get uh consensus on that um how does this work do do will you be are we asking will we be asking you to draw up the contract for Mr childis can you just remind us of the process please so yes so if Mr child is the is the will of the commission um the parameters have pretty much been set um in in the advertisement I would draft a contract um for his position as the inum um provided to Mr childis he could review it obviously provide any comments or proposed edits we would go um and then once we have a um Mr childr and I have a a final product we would put it on the agenda for the village commission to consider and and approve so we could possibly get that done for Tuesday even is that doable Brad can it be added to that agenda assuming there's no modifications and changes we could get it done by possibly okay then I guess the I guess the point would be to get started and uh if there are any changes or modifications or anything we need to talk question for Brad sure Brad all the other benefits go along with this or just the pay that's the first question and the second question is Al had mentioned uh some trips that he's taking to me and I asked him to put that in writing for us and I got it today did we all get that today okay how is that handled for an interim uh manager he's taking several they're not very long vacations but there's significant vacations in the next couple of months of course we don't know if he'll be in the interim position that entire time so how does that work so is my understanding unless you all um direct me otherwise the uh the interim position is a salary position of $100,000 with no benefits so um you would have whether or not uh whether he takes vacation with pay that would that would be a benefit you would have to something that if Mr chus is asking for that that is something that that you would have to give me guidance on as to whether or not that is something that that you uh you all have a consensus on if not then he would take vacation um and he would have to appoint an in an inim in an acting or I should say excuse me an acting an acting inum in his absence and um if there's no benefits he has no annual leave then he doesn't get paid for the time that he's not working at the Village okay yeah I wanted all that clarified and we just also need to clarify the the vacation time when I talked to Al about it he said that it would be taken without pay he UND Al you understood you volunteered that that's how it would work okay so I just want to make sure we're all clear on that going into it so it's salary no other benefits and vacation without pay and some of those vacations may not apply because we may have hired a permanent replacement by then I think the farthest one out out was in June I think in June May May okay okay I think if if Mr Childress is the desire of the commission with regards to any vacations he has um you you as a commission would have to um you know give him some guidance as to how you want notice I understand he's given you some notice already um but how you want notice from from Mr childis as to when he's not going to be at the village and he's on of help so that you all are yeah he did that today I think yeah we we yes you're right we we have a letter um from Mr chis uh outlining the the days that he's planning on um I'm not being here in the village so I think we have to taken care of Brad and if he when he's out he would appoint an acting he would notify you all who the acting is and um we would continue to do business and nor I trust you'd be able to handle that then um okay great um Brad thanks for the um for the pointer on the procedure can I ask one other thing related to that uh not to be a stickler but we um have gotten kind of a little bit I want to say burned is maybe a hard word but we've gotten sort of caught off guard by some of these things in the past um Al you gave us it's three total vacations that you're taking between now and may is that correct one two three um I'm thinking your destinations I like heing about your your cool destinations um uh do you have any other plans to take any other Vacations or any other time off for any reason because that's that's a little chunk of time already in that short period of time and I'd want to know that there that's kind of the extent of it that's it okay okay um are there any other questions before we uh yeah I I wanted to Circle back to I don't know before we have I we have a motion on the floor but before we vote uh to the time frame of this uh I know we suggested 3 to six months mons in my opinion I think we should be looking longer term at least one year to give the an experienced manager we're bringing on a manager with this experience to give him time in the job to really fully fledge out all the problems we have what needs to be changed and to make those changes even if he is only here for a year it gives us an it gives him an opportunity to really digest the job gives us an opportunity to experience how he is as a manager and make sure that's a happy marriage but we also get a huge benefit from it that a lot of those problems that a non-experienced manager that we just experienced prior doesn't have solutions for he will have Solutions he will fix the problems he will fix the Sops while he's here during that one year let me just make sure I understand you're saying to have to I guess not direct or dictate but but state that the contract for the interim position is for a full year is that what you're saying it there's many benefits to me I see I see one it gives him more time to fully fledge out problems and solutions and it also we we discuss many times how we rushed into hiring last time it gives it we won't be behind the eightball when it comes to a hiring situation we only have three to six months it let lets us extend out that period do our due diligence and make sure we select a great candidate we if we automatically pigeon hole ourselves to three to six months in my opinion we're R situation we are in the last the last time so the way the way that I would I understand what you're saying but I think the way that that I saw this playing out the permanent position was that we set timelines not for how long there will be an interposition but how long the advertisement will be out how long we have to collect resumes how long we have to review I'm sorry I'm like I have my back to you um how long we have to review them and then interview and look if we come to a meeting where we've we've reviewed all of them if we all come to a meeting we say gee we're not crazy about any of these candidates or we're not comfortable just yet getting this person in the permanent position we just keep going so it it could be if hypothetically speaking we find some unicorn somebody shows up in January and we're like this person's going to be great Al this is hypothetically all right hypothetically somebody comes in we say wow this person is fantastic we cannot let them out of our grasp like then you know we don't want to one have Al be holding to a year contract where we then have to okay we got to terminate you early we got to look for somebody I think it's more open-ended that it could be a year um but I just don't think longer yeah I mean I just don't think we commit to that I think we just start the process um and then we we go through our diligence as we see fit and then we determine if there's a candidate worth so candidate that we all like enough and and Dan will be here with us as well um that we all agree on and that that we select so I think I understand again I understand what you're saying but I think I think the procedure and the process is probably going to be the same without setting any specific deadlines to when we have to select a permanent if if I'm gonna I'm going to uh I understand your intent and it there's there's value to that but I'm going to agree with Jonathan here and to clear we didn't rush through the process the last time we ran a process and we found someone that we thought was the right person and we found another person who's sitting here in the front row who we thought was also a great candidate and I just heard from someone who I'm sitting there watching and thinking man we might really benefit from that gentleman as well so we didn't rush through a process we ran a process there was never a deadline to hire someone it was never hire someone the next three months it was only get the ad out by this date collect resumés through this date run it through a process and uh and see what comes out and we found someone we were we were happy enough with to uh I think it was a 4-1 vote initially and then it became a 5- Zer vote at the end um but I think it benefits us to have it be open-ended and start a process because we don't know who we're going to find and there are some other candidates here and that might come up as well and we don't know who else is out there looking or might be looking after the holidays which is kind of a time when people start looking for jobs they're going to make changes people don't look during holiday time so I'm very happy I'll be interested to hear what the rest of you say to hire him uh basically it's until further notice you know and until your services are no longer needed he's clearly going to apply for the job so it might be that we run the process and hire him as the permanent manager in January or February so it might be that that might be the case it might might not be in room he might be the permanent guy at that point so I'm going to go along with Jonathan on this one see I see what you're saying consistency is important I I do agree with you um but leaving it the way kind of open-ended we may end up with we may end up with Al fulltime too and then he'll hopefully have even longer than that but um um so that's that's my thought um can I can I yeah of course sure sure I agree I think the idea I'm I'm more inclined to get the to the in you know get rid of the interim position and start working with the permanent manager as soon as possible I think this position holds a lot of power as we just talked about I think there's so much still pending to be done than an um although it has all the capabilities to you know effectively go for with all of them I just want to have consistency long term so for me is as soon as possible to put the the position open for the permanent manager than we need open-ended if Brad I don't know how that works in terms of contract but that would be great but I am not comfortable waiting a year to see if we can find it I mean the idea is that within you know we we just saw this for a few weeks we got 12 very qualified people come forward so I don't think the need of a year is going to be out there I also agree we did not actually Rush the process I don't agree with that statement we actually took the time we went through a a strong process uh thank you Mr asto was the other candidate that we were looking at at the time um and uh and I would want to go through the same maybe the difference would be at Head Hunter this time maybe we specify which areas we are hoping to see resumés but Mr Sid um I'm I'm very impressed with your resume as well and hoping that you stay connected with us to consider you for the long term if if you know that's a possibility um but that's how I feel about it I don't think you know hopefully we get it over three six months that we you know I'll you know kind of suggest or Manny consider selling your house and moving to biscane park and we could get you up here for free there's that too um well you beat me to the punch Manny certainly I I would be very interested to see you applying for the permanent position because um you have impeccable credentials so I I very much appreciate being here and sharing that with us so I I hope I hope we will see you again in the future um all right so if there's just want to make I want to clarify there's almost a motion on the floor well that's I was coming back you jump you jump that out of whether or not there's a time frame that needs like for the purposes of the contract can it be month-to month does it have to be six month can we meet in the middle and say do a four-month and then just add months as there is no term on the contract there's no term on our manager our permanent manager's contract is is that correct Brad no no the contract was year to year yeah they can leave at anytime they're at will we can we can change there's termination Provisions um Sorry Brad I can't hear you and I would love to hear your legal uh opinion on this so how long long does it how long can the contract be for in an interim position we we can draft the contract and obviously I have to sit down and and talk with Mr childis but we we can draft the contract so it it goes continuous month-to month until a until a permanent manager is selected and seated is there a certain amount of time where we need to decide you know sort of a 30-day notice or is it immediate effect effectively as how does that work yeah I'll have to discuss and see what Mr chers wants um you you can do it where 30 days notice we can do it um where he he walks away is effectively I'm assuming he's not the the permanent manager the inum would walk away upon the day that the day that the the permanent manager the new manager comes in okay yeah we we can negotiate that we can we can put those um I I'll speak with Mr chers we'll figure out what he's what he's seeking and um obviously if we can we'll put it before the commission um I and then you all will approve it or if we have to tweak it we can tweak it at the meeting when you're approving the agreement really Sor you very up a little bit sorry straining but I heard him yeah so you it's the termination how how we would terminate the agreement upon can you hear me now yes okay the termination of the inim position would be something I could negotiate and discuss with Mr childis we can do it where it's a 30-day notice we can have a provision in there that essentially that the interim position is terminated upon the seating of of a permanent full-time manager I mean it we can do it several different ways so it would just be a matter of me sitting down with Mr childis and coming to an agreement as to what he's comfortable with and what the village is comfortable with I think that's fine Brad um you've you've got experience okay uh thank you Brad um any other questions before we uh vote on the motion none okay so the motion um I do have one question I W just let's hear from Mr chers to make sure that he's acceptable all the terms of this contract before we I would ha for them to be a discrepancy between what he's expecting and what we're offering and then us be back to square one again so i' like to talk to Mr CH first for a second and see if he's okay with $100,000 salary if he's okay with no benefits if there's any requirements he would like as an interim before we get in negotiations with our attorney and we back to swear one if we can come to an agreement okay I'm sorry I didn't hear what Mr Childer said he's uh has has not yet started speaking oh okay we got silent go ahead indry manager so um I I think you're all aware of what was I was making at at U my two former city manager positions and what I bring to the table and uh um I think a $100,000 is to me is not acceptable that's not something I can accept um I I I bring you know I have two master's degrees I have I bring a lot to the table uh years of experience I've I've worked at three jurisdictions I'm willing as commissioner Kennedy had had talk to me to take no uh uh take no vacation time no sick time you know I was willing to make some concessions but the salary concession I just can't I I just can't do I'm sorry what what was the posted position what did the ad say Pamela 100 the the ad was posted at $100,000 salary no benefits for the interm position and it stated inter yeah usually that's negotiated you know once it's selected it's usually negotiated for an executive position that's what this is and it's an executive position yeah do you have a number in mind is this something because we are here with the rest of you know interest I don't know um maybe this that's a conversation that we need to yes I I do I do have an a number of mine I'll be happy to talk to each each of you individually about that number okay well how are we going to vote on that if we don't come yeah yeah the position was clearly advertised 100,000 and no benefit so the fact that you're standing here now having gone through the process I I'm not real pleased about I'm just going to be honest with you you knew what the off you knew what was we were offering right but but I Al Al came in commissioner and and found the amount of work that's it's a lot more than $100,000 worth of problems okay um you had enough sure put out a an option um if if the number that we what does anyone recall the number that was being bounced for when we were talking about what isk 156 somewhere in that range I don't think we had the conversation on a b park at any we did we we touched on 150 during the budget process growing to 150 we did in the budget you put $100,000 as the salary for the manager the idea or 116 I think it was 116 because I think we took no the car benefit and we we moved that was that was for for the next fiscal for the permanent position correct for the permanent position that was I'm sorry for the fisal but for the position now the entm position 116 that's my recollection as well based on some of the benefits that were flipped over from benefit to salary and not to interrupt but uh Mr childr you wouldn't be requiring uh retirement would you retirement contributions no that is the interm no so we were contributing uh 36,000 for Chris to that so real real number is 116 plus 36,000 for Chris so we're we're getting up there in that 150 range already with your with those two numbers let's just I can continue um that's a good point that that justifies the 150 I think not only because remember I actually do remember us talking about it at some point comp you talking salary base 160 when we were talking about what is it gonna take to bring someone skill sets needed that we use for in a permanent capacity permanent word but which is not what we're discussing today just for just for argument we talking mudle so let let me uh I don't know can can someone uh maybe on the zoom needs to mute please uh the the microphone just just for reference so I did ask um um our finance team to provide me with the breakdown of the salary for the permanent position uh so that's what the one I have it's 112 FRS pension 38 health insurance 18 life insurance 600 vehicle allowance about 5,000 cell phone allowance about 600 and memberships and dues come all up to 176 that's including benefits so one thing is just the Standalone salary that we've been talking about at $100,000 but with the all the added benefits it ends up being $176,000 Al is that in the neighborhood of what you would be seeking yes sir okay and so that that's the thing so the base salary think about we have an FSS pension of 34. 52% um health insurance depending on the plan obviously and your dependence but it's around almost n $119,000 and you have a premium for life insurance cell phone vehicle and membership s do that adds up to 176 yes yes okay basic F budget I'm sorry commissioner you got to talk into your microphone I can't hear you I'm sorry on stage they tell me to back up because I'm but uh okay I the the fact that that's the number that um commissioner Amsler has come up with and that that's in the range of what Mr childis was asking I think that's a per okay coincidence now let's let's project forward a little bit and look on our crystal balls and if you're suggesting that we pay Al $176,000 as a salary now and he gets no other benefits then he applies to be the permanent manager and we want to hire him then what happens now we're paying him $176,000 salary and then we have to give him all the other benefits right I guess we don't have to but we would there's a full compensation package at that point of all the other things that are thrown into it now all of a sudden our budget that mean one we're blowing the budget out of the water anyway in terms of that one salary item but then we're adding all of that back in so then we put ourselves in a situation where then we can't afford him but we currently have budgeted for for 112 in including all the benefits that add UPS to not 112 including all the benefits 112 plus all the benefits no I mean for the fiscal we added 112 right but you said 112 including all the benefits no 112 plus all the benefits I'm talking about what's been budgeted for now what's been advertised for right you're saying the benefits is f FRS health insurance all those things 112 does not include those it's 112 salary plus all those are separate but I'm saying you said included it's not as plus includes yeah I'm saying include it's included in the budget that we we talked about it's not obviously within the 112 full salary including benefits 176 correct all right so that's what we budget for we advertised it for 100 and no benefits and no benefits so will we have an you know the longer the interim stays with us should someone if not I'll accept the position saves US money for several months but if we were move to hire tomorrow we have the budget for so in any case if that's what the manager is willing to go for um is that a negotiation for you to go from entering to permanent position or is it something that um this salary kind of fits within your long-term Vision that that salary fits in with my longterm but certainly there would be negotiations for a long-term contract soice do the 176 that she says so that's what I'm saying so see if he's saying okay as an interim and then transitions to be the permanent manager that would not be effect if to your point at least on this year on this budget right to have an impact a negotiation would have to come may maybe for the next mon not following that because if we pay him 176 as a salary now and no benefits and let's say in February we hire him and he's saying he wants 176 salary then we have to prod 176 it's salary including the benefits let's make we're not talking apples to apples here he's talking salary and when you say salary you mean just salary yeah and I I I think commissioner we we need to get through today and and something six months from now I think okay I understand that but it impacts that and and we're not talking apples to apples here he's ver he's saying salary he's saying he's going to want $176,000 in salary other things, in benefit so just for for the so so you and I are talking about the same column here um we currently have advertised for for position for 100 gr with no benefits if we were to move forward with your suggestion would be okay yes 176,000 it's salary plus the benefits okay that's why we have it right now no noit no benefits at all all you guys can't hear me I said if we were moved to hire him permanently oh he we would pay 176 plus benefit so anything if he's entering for a while we're saving money that's what I'm saying the most we can not no we're not we're paying no we're exactly Break Even because yeah because we're budgeting 176,000 all in and we be giving him all of that it just wouldn't be broken out into little chunks it's all as a salary so 17 we're not saving anything and that's all we got okay and then when we hire in permanently it's 176 plus 60 some more in the other thing that's what I'm saying I'm saying you're you're talking about 176 plus benefit that takes us to over 26 exactly my point ,000 why he brought it up yeah why brought it up he brought because is that what you're saying no commissioner that's not what I'm saying thank you I was just trying to have you clarify instead of at that point if I'm I'm if I'm asked to be your permanent manager I'm certainly going to negotiate a contract that's going to be favorable to myself in the village yes I think the 176 is favorable to myself in the village right now so so I think the good point here is we could hire Al not affect the budget get through today and we can stop playing crystal ball for six months from now and we can have that conversation when it gets there Al might not be our choice for the permanent manager somebody else might he is in my opinion but he might not let's get through tonight yeah and if we can hire him and not affect the budget 176 is the number and Mr child you can negotiate with our attorney and stay within our budget well for me it is I understand where you're going with this and I don't want to rush it like that I for me it was important to hear if there is a long-term consideration of the position if the salary expectation is 150 grand extra it's not going to happen so that at least puts me in notice that you're just looking to do this for a few months and that's it I think you know as the short time I've been here yeah I'm looking to save every dime that there is I i' we've talked about those that cost savings I've already identified and I'm going to continue to do that as I sit as the interim and I in the last 30 days I've saved you some money by not taking a salary and so I'm I'm going to continue to look at ways to save every d I can I appreciate thank you all so just so I understand since I have to do the negotiation what what do you mean you didn't get that that was I I well I just want to make sure I understand it because I'm going to put it pen to paper so you're you're going to pay Mr childis 176 thou 176,000 salary I don't I don't know that we have I think I think we have to modify the motion yes um or add to the motion before we we we decide on that um so just hang with us for one second if you would please so it's are you modifying your motion I uh I'm sorry then but uh I will I would relinquish my motion to the vice mayor I will want to add one more thing to this Mr childis it was very nice what you did I I might get shot down for this but I don't like anybody working for free he worked for almost a month for free could we add a twoe sign on bonus to whatever whatever salary he agrees with the attorney a twoe sign on bonus to compensate him for two for a month of work we compensate him two weeks I think that's more than fair month we worked a month for free we pay him for two weeks sign on bonus respond I don't want to be argumentative at all um because I agree that I don't like people working for free either and that that happened so quickly that night I'm like why is he doing it for free it was just like hm I didn't that just kind of came up I was like okay he's doing it for free I'm not a big fan of that either you pay people what they're worth and what you can afford when it all matches um that being said when people make an agreement to things and people apply for something knowing what it's going to be I'd like to follow those procedures he said he's going to do it for free I think we we say thank you and give him the job he offered to do that for us and when people apply for a job that's advertised at a salary and they know that they should be prepared to accept it when when it's offered to them we went through a similar situation with the last manager and like three months into his a role we give him a a an increase in a salary um unsolicited um I don't feel comfortable sort of for the same reasons if if it's been discussed I I I had agreed to do it yeah at proon for the 30 days and I'm fine with that I I appreciate the offer vice mayor but I'm fine with that and I and again it doesn't mean that the value is zero that you bring absolutely not and it's just the generosity that you put forward and um I find very honorable and very thankful for and the village is it's saving money to the Village um so I'm I'm willing to just to keep things as as we agreed yeah and just a dove tell one thing real quickly and and I say again I don't like the zero dollar value either because when you don't pay someone it looks like there's no value and he brought enormous value clearly we're going to give him the gig yeah um last time around 3 months in we gave the manager a what what it came to a 15% pay increase one meeting just like that off on a whim I didn't vote for it Vero I think you didn't either and then and that was a year ago this month and here we sit hiring an interim manager so what did it get us you put things out people apply they know what's going on they accept it there could be some negotiation on some things but um I'm not comfortable taking it from a $100,000 package that was advertised that all of the these people applied to they all knew they were coming in to to get $100,000 a year position and now all of a sudden we pick someone and almost double it I'm not comfortable with that it's an interim thing he knows it's it's it's he knows it's until we hire someone and we're going to do our job and hire someone and at that point we're going to have to advertise the position and have a conversation about the compensation for the position and clearly I think we're all in agreement that that needs to be looked at and we did put extra money in it and we know there are other places in the budget we can pull from and we know I think we all know we need to do better to get better but that's for the permanent position Al applied for a position that was advertised like these other gentlemen did so vice mayor um back to your motion because I relinquish the motion to you um would you are you revising it or adding to it make a motion to hire alch as the inter manager at uh a uh salary to be negotiated with our attorney or do we have parameters yeah that's see salary to be negotiated with our attorney to stay within our current budget Allin number so up to 176 whatever the number ver was say no benefits but no benefits so that just so we're clear that doesn't have to be part of the resolution that's just guidance you're giving me you're going to ultimately approve a contract for the inam manager so the resolution only has to be to appoint the the inter manager the the conversation with regards to salary I mean unfortunately because you're a governmental entity and we have Sunshine laws I you there's no way for me to get guidance from you as to what to negotiate without you all having a public meeting and giving me parameters um so that's that's I think what we were trying to effectuate no no I understand if it comes back and it's a and we don't approve the contract then we're back at square one looking for another inter and and that's why the parameter that Brad is asking it's needed I mean our top in this case is what we approved in the budget we can't just go higher than that and that includes benefits and all so for us it's whatever number we have put in the budget that that's the maximum we can go to this year that's it okay so I and I'm gonna say it again there's a number that was put in an ad that we placed out there that everyone applied to 12 people applied for it including other people who are sitting in the room asking for the job so yeah no I understand I understand I know your motion is pending um Al I I want you here and sorry can before we move into finishing with all on on that point that that's important I mean there is another candidate as well and we haven't even talked about budget and what impact that could have for the village as well do we want to have the conversation with Mr Sid as well the conversation of related to salary or we ready to go and increase the salary I mean from 100 that we have right now to 6 months maybe a year I heard you know um to 176 and just go for the full budget that we have uh or do we discuss the budget and you know to another qualified applicant and see what sort of number I mean we again we put it to your point again we put the out the offer out there for 100 grand and so we haven't had the chance to discuss with M Mr CH until today and that's why this taken back and forth I mean we have to do it this way unfortunately but Mr Sid also has a qualified resume and we I mean it's another thing maybe we could just have a conversation I'm saying we can bring him over and have a if we're just let just kind of call it what it is I will absolutely I seconded the motion I would absolutely vote right now to hire outch for this job but if a contract comes back to us it would be a contract coming back to us for approval correct Brad yes and it's for $176,000 I'm going to vote no to that because that's not what we intended this to be I'm just letting you guys know we don't have to argue back and forth anymore I'm telling you I'm a yes to hire him and when a contract comes back at 176 I'm going to be a no if you have enough yeses it doesn't matter that I'm a no so you guys figure that out but there's another gentleman sitting right here who got up and spoke with us and I think we're all kind of impressed with him and were you under the understanding that was $100,000 as uh annualized salary for in an inome capacity yeah if if you wouldn't mind thank you thanks H so at this point on the floor yes so somebody would need to make a moot an intervening motion all right motion to table the vice mayor's motion okay and is second that you're looking for a second yeah I was looking for a second second okay all in favor I okay that's three um so Mr Sid um you've obviously heard the conversation um and I think the question that was pending sort of um is the commissioner Kennedy's question about um your understanding of of what the job the inter job was being advertised after for salary yes I saw the advertisement and and I applied and it's your are are you is it your I guess intention and your representation to the commission um that you would be willing to take it for that that amount yes okay any other questions from Mr Sid we have him up here oh that was one of the questions that I straight up asked asked you and it said you know I know we don't pay compared to other cities I mean you have been exposed to Miami Lakes and you know to the county um you know what the pay is around and we don't have that so and uh one of the things that impressed me was the fact that he mentioned that was not as you know an issue I mean it's more about gaining the experience that you want and putting in action so I thought that was a good balance for us at the time can I do a follow-up question please this is an interim this is an interim position and you're saying you would do it for an amount that annualized to $100,000 how long would you be willing to do it because we wouldn't want you to leave we're still look you know we're not ready to replace you in three months and you take off how long are you prepared to commit to this position at that rate I'd work at at the will of the uh of the council I mean are you saying you would be here for a year if we needed you to be here for a year at that rate yes I I just want to say and Mr with respect to Mr Sid I understand that and he came here with for $100,000 but you pay for experience you pay for education I you do I did a Excel spreadsheet of every candidate we have there's only one candidate on the list that has two masters from prestigious universities there's only one candidate on the list who has n years of experience in the the current position we're talking about so for me um you know I understand and I'm glad you accept the job at 100 000 for me we pay for experience we pay for for that that on the job knowledge so and education Second That Emotion thank you m Mr Sid appreciate it um all right so then are you renewing your motion we'll renew my motion to point Al as the ENT manager a second um okay um Al I I will say I I also want you to hear um I'm I'm I share a little bit of the uncomfort of of moving up so drastically I I would have no problem moving up but it is a drastic move so I'm a little uncomfortable with it um but as far as the negotiation of the contract comes back we'll wait to see what it says um but um uh we have a second so we'll go ahead and uh get a consensus on the motion that's on the table so do we have a consensus and I want to put my comments sure sure um so same I feel the same the same way I think you know we're put in the situ ation is very tight our budget we've been like scratching $500 moving it to every corner and here we are right it can go very quickly very high and so I am very comfortable out to have you for entering manager and stay with us at a manageable uh budget you know within our the structure of our budget how is that going to look when it comes back we'll we'll see the numbers that I gave and I was kind of voicing over I received from Finance from Cheryl Cheryl is her name yeah yeah thank you and um and she was kind enough to break it down from benefits of salary and all of that so I think um I'm I'm inclined to say the same we'll kind of wait and see uh but Mr Sid I appreciate your cander and being straightforward on to what the value that you would bring means for you because you're just trying to get the experience on the ground and that for you uh you know definitely has a prize as well but it's you're willing to collaborate with us so longterm as a POS as we're considering longterm term this position as well I hope you stay with us can I throw something else out there just this just occurred to me and I don't know if you can do this or if Brad would advise us against it um we budgeted this position at $112,000 and the position has been empty for a month we're now like five weeks into an empty position so if you take 112,000 and you divide it by 52 weeks that's 2153 a week and it's been empty for it'll be have been empty for six weeks Al by doing it for free just saved us almost $133,000 so that's actual money in our hands that we could spend to sweeten it somewhat that we didn't spend because we got them for free so how would we use let's just call it $113,000 as an even number we didn't spend that money in the past six weeks how could we use that to sweeten the deal for Al over maybe the course of like say we'll split that across the first three months and guarantee that as a payout to him even if we filled the position I think I think that just to go back to what Brad asked of us he was to give me a range and that the negotiations happen I think to your point that is a bucket of negotiation to be discussed but the maximum is what we have approved we can go higher than that so with that said let's have a conversation knowing that we can't pay any more than the 176 all in and then you know whether it is using that as a part of that benefit or as a saving because part of not having them having a saving is important for us as well reason why we were very happy to hear a prono sort of a position um that could be it so um I think it's to to Brad I would just keep it open that's the top that we can go and then use that bonus to negotiate again if we're going to vote on this now I'm going to vote Yes on hiring out and if a contract comes back here look that's that's not what uh the what it was advertised for and what he knew he was applying for I'm going to be a no but you probably have three yeses up here so we'll see what happens very quickly because I know we're kind of knocking on the door here but just to put some perspective on the numbers I am am I the only finance guy here I trade you doing are you doing a pivot table I'm not doing a pivot I don't even know what I don't even know what a pivot be on PIV you see it up at the top this is an Excel sheet I'm in power query and SQL now brother in fact playing using Excel for me almost feels like I went back to like high school or something this is but it's it's Excel it's great it's awesome it's a great tool so Al's ask currently is what essentially what's in the budget which is around 145 a month 175,000 going to use nice round number the budget 100,000 the difference obviously 75 grand it's a difference of about 6,000 a month we save twice that already uh to to to commissioner Kennedy's point one idea that I had was to split the difference that would take the monthly payment from the monthly salary from 145 to 115 um but then the other thought the other way to view this was I I really want to say that when we looked around we saw we were talking numbers in the 140 150 range with a 40% GNA markup GNA being like your benefits retirement all that stuff it's usually right around 40% give or take few percentage points numbers that were floating around earlier were closer to 50 to go from 116 175 maybe we have higher GNA costs whatever but if we were to get down to 140,000 which I thought was in the ballpark but we consider the market rate that's that's going to come out to more than the 170 this is money that we're going to have to find anyway right in order to do what we said we were going to do which was to find someone competitive who can stick around for a long time so even at the amount that we're asking now if we were to take the position to 140 which is I think in the ballpark heck I if I went down to 130 are we still saving money yes talking about the permanent position right I'm talking about if the permanent position with a 40% GNA markup went down to 130 that's 15,000 better glasses s right these are the blue light blockers stronger 15,200 per month and current ask now at that number is 145 so it would still be a money saver I don't know if I want to be in the village if we're going to go and pay 120 again you know let's let's pay for experience and pay um you know let's get what what you pay for right you know I think there's there's good money spent here so just to put that in perspective we're still below where we would be on a longterm basis and that's I think the 130 is below I think we're going to wind up probably when we look at the available candidates over the next few months I'm guessing 140 150 might and then and at which point that give us time to consider is the difference between what we're seeing there other candidates and what Al is asking potentially longterm or what anyone else is asking longterm you know Manny might come to a census and realizes realize he's worth a lot more than 100,000 a year I think he is so um that gives us more time but at least in the short term it gets us through tonight to have that comfort of knowing we are still within where we're gonna be anyway right number the the number of what he's asking is ballpark 145 a month which is lower than if we were paying a full-time person 130,000 a year and paying for their retirement and their whatever in medical health care all that stuff I have comfort in those numbers plus to uh commissioner Huntington's Point what you pay for sometimes it's it's and look it's like few years ago 10 years ago in the Bernard era we were talking about wouldn't it be great to take some of these houses that are on forclosure have some of our police force actually living here here so they had in the game so that they were around during Hurricane so that they were around you know when there's a crisis he's three blocks away I mean you it's just such a like it's such a nice bonus to have that he's a resident he has skin in the game you know it's his village too so that's my Tu okay so I think numbers wise I hope I've put some piece of we'll see so you you're you're um what are we telling Brad for him to use for negotiation obviously we don't want to go above the budget budget right now is 176 if that's the number I'm being told all included all included and I think and and when I already asked Mr uh just earlier or Al sorry being so uh if that was in the range and he said yes so I don't I feel like if he's saying yes to that number we're good okay and that's it so we come to the same which is it's what the budget currently has been approved for yeah okay the motion remains unchanged and it has been seconded so uh we ask for a majority vote hi yes I hi yes thank you Mr tus we got there I look forward to to have that contract yes since this might be my last meeting can I say one last thing uh a uh a resident who who um I know well came to me with a concern and and since uh uh police chief steel is here um I I can't bring up things that are on the agenda I would just say do the I'll do a bill check do your job that's it all right so um we've concluded with the selection of the interim but I ALS but I very quickly want to uh have us talk about the procedure for the selection of uh how we see the timelines for the permanent um and this is uh this is for you madam clerk now um I know what we've done in the past is we've kind of dictated that or requested not dictated excuse me uh that we put out the advertisement on all the normal channels um just to start getting some feelers as to what we might be getting uh in response and start collecting resumés so do we want to talk about at least that portion tonight to get things started advertising the open position for the permanent manager because I'd like us to at least get started put a timeline on that yes so we can open the door for resumés and close the door for resumés so we can start reviewing if we start uh sooner rather than later which I support I wouldn't want to close the door until a significant amount of time I agree post holiday okay like can can I say third week of January or something are we considering doing this through a head hunter this time versus what we did before um you know the last time we went ahead and just as just like this time we asked for resumés and I think it's worth considering having a professional go and look for the right feet for us and I'll be willing to put some money against that um this that should be something that we all agree whether the type of experience that has to be so that we don't get people from out of safe that's what we the majority decides we need to go for um you know experience uh anything that we want to sort of uh use as a filter to help us get to the right person so sooner instead of us doing again the work of interview and after you know over and over which it's fine we can do that but we need someone to give us a good filter of people and a good pool of people that we can screen as a second uh screening process not not the first I think that's what I would do different than than the first uh round commissioner if I will to your point uh that's a great very good point The Village manager also advised us that it's could be a conflict of interest if we do not if we allow him to apply for the permanent position we need that outside vendor that outside firm to do to guide us through that process so that way there's no ill propriety when it comes to him reviewing resumés and things like that so well I don't think no one reviewed them they we get all the resumés and Pam it's really Pamela's uh yeah Pamela's job so there is no filtering from the manager everything that came in before the manager never received the manager never received any of these resumés they all went through my office I looked at them I sent them to you and they're share with us but I I with you I mean for me it's it's a professional that we need this time around and I just will feel very comfortable that I am and we're not just missing any sort of check you know on any boxes I would want someone to do that for us if we're all clear on what that's going to be so that's a convers do both can we get the ads up and just get that process started and talk separately about that person being the filter I mean that would defeat the purpose of having a head hunter Mr Mayor if I may yeah go ahead B so yeah so yes to to try to clarify all this it you have two processes you can do this on your own like you were talking about if you were to hire a head hunter a head hunter you will sit down with the Head Hunter you will tell them what you're looking for with regards to a candidate they will do your advertising for you they will vet applicants um for to determine whether or not they fit the criteria you're looking for and then they will present you with with qualified applicants but they essentially will do the initial vetting um and you they will give you as many applicants as you ask for if you say you want 10 they'll vet the top 10 that they receive and and present them to you um or whatever whatever amount you you choose but it doesn't not make sense in in my humble opinion for you to advertise the position now and then also have a head hunter or somebody else uh um well I mean I guess you could create to to that point it would make no sense to hire a head hunter once you advertise the position if you're going to do something like that then I what you could do is you could advertise the position through the village without using a Head Hunter and try to come up with some type of a formal committee that reviews those applications whether it be um somebody from a professional association or from any other source and have them do an evaluation of those um of those applications and make a recommendation of whatever number the commission wants of applicants for you all to consider and and talk to and then interview publicly so it it really kind of is how you it's really your process how you want to do it but I wouldn't suggest publishing and then going out and getting a head on and it sounds to me then like what if not sure I understand that Brad because I'm not I'm trying to understand that because if let's just say we put an ad out tomorrow and we got 50 applicants by next week and we hired a head hunter that pool of applicants goes to the Head Hunter and they we've just given them a starting pool of people to look at because they're still doing their job of reviewing and interviewing and da da da but I mean I don't see what it hurts what do we pay to put these ads out there it's kind of a negligible fee isn't it we didn't pay anything for this yeah so it's free so what's it hurt to see what you look what we got by putting it's the same places some of the same places we adverti for this inter room and we got some people that we like so I don't understand as long as we're not obligated to anybody if it's reviewed by the Head Hunter yeah that's what I'm saying just like still let the Head Hunter do her or his job but why not start getting a pool of candidates we I'm was kind of impressed with what we got I quickly I'm agreeing with both I'm like let's get someone here to help us but I don't see the harm in putting free ads out and see what we get we're not obligated to any timeline to any candidate to anything why not just see what's up you're not I mean I I haven't seen it done that way um if that's if that's the commission's desire you can certainly do that you you set the process yeah look I mean I I think we've had we've had success and I I don't want to narrow the narrow the field too too too small either I don't want to be too narrow in in what we're getting back I I think there's there's a lot of benefit to having someone with some experience look at the candidates for us and help especially and and and and this sort of a role within government it wouldn't be a head hunter for any jobs in corporate you know it it's specific to government people that work with government they have the context know where to post it all the work is kind of done by them um I think there is value to that yeah I I time I agree with you um I still think I still think our traditional CH well that would be the next step too is we'd have to start getting someone to do that but I think traditional channels such as the Managers Association has been very helpful the league of cities has been very helpful you know the people that are reviewing those boards you know are people with relevant experience too so I I don't want to narrow the field too much and maybe miss out on and we found managers in the past that we were the village was quite happy with through those traditional channels as well what if we do what if we were to do this then what if we agree to get started with the advertisement through those channels and then I don't know what the process we'd have to we'd have to maybe I guess Al if that's something that you would bring to us a head hunter that you think would be you know well suited for the role and then we could discuss if we if we like that individual and that we would give you the authority to go ahead and bring them in and then the clerk could give them the resumés and they could get started y so maybe that's how we started maybe we we start the advertisements um and do we want to talk about uh I guess as soon as as is practical for for for the clerk um and what do we want to do for how long do we want to hold that open for I know Mac you you suggested at least through after the holidays I mean we have two big holidays three holidays coming up four five then then so people there are so I don't know how that works but I think about people that are interested on a job and their interest this month I don't know if we're going to hold them until January you know what I'm saying so you have two you're you're searching for a person for two two months um these people are usually searching for a job so we we get the opp the possibility of losing them too so I think it I feel more com comfortable open in it um and closeing it maybe closer to the holidays to your point maybe right before the holiday reopen it afterwards if we wanted to if we would we don't have anything or if the Head Hunter advised us to or yeah and to me this this this I I don't disagree with if we want to go through our own process but it just seems messy to open it now to then close it and open it again and you're like you say we're going to keep somebody on the hook who they applied now and we're not going to make decisions till January if we're bringing in a head hunter that's going to take time to review contracts and approve it I say let's if we if that's our intention let's get this Head Hunter let's get the get quotes get a contract and then we we established a formal process but to to instruct the clerk to open it up immediately and then we now have a contract on uh in front of us it's going to take months before we get that contract and we app obviously it's not immediately but I think through this to your point I I I would put this also as a recommendation of the Head Hunter I mean this is uh Al maybe someone to contact and say okay based on your expertise it's recommended two months for this sort of Po you know position you can consider less I don't know that and we're just guessing here so I think someone with the expertise and and searching for this role will know especially around the holidays couple quick thoughts to add to that um in terms of the process I agree we do want to an external view so we should be looking at options for Head Hunters maybe there's one or two that specialize in Civic government um I assume that back like back in the old days that they don't require exclusivity agreements so we can run that process in parallel with something that we post internally but either way I do think that before we put the cart before the horse we have to or you guys as a commission have to revisit the budget so that when you post a number you have faith in the number the number's budgeted etc etc so so yeah I don't think you're going to be able to post anything anytime soon because that's going to have to be at the next Commission meeting if it's even on the agenda right yeah might you might not even get a number until December yeah right because exactly so if you don't have the number till December you really we might not even have the professional or any but I would add that the holidays are when a lot of people are taking time off yes some of them might be finding out they're Jobs been eliminated the holidays is when people will be looking should really to get a number at the next commission meetings that we can get that stuff out there so that people who are taking time off the holidays you see where I'm going you're you're making us another special commission I see where you're going won't be here for I'm he's you're done I know no so but I agree we have to I I think this is the right timing for that yeah so would you like the clerk and I to to look for Head Hunters so that Mr childis is not looking is not part of the selection process who's going to be ultimately evaluating his application yeah Brad I think that that's it sounds to me like that's the request to the commission is for for you and the clerk to get together and start looking for some add Hunter if you could please do that sorry that's fine so um in that case if if we I mean to looking at my calendar thanksgiving's late this year yeah it is we're still tonight we're three weeks from Thanksgiving and then after that it's four weeks till uh Christmas and right after nice time and remember we're not obligated to anybody for anything no timeline it's all the cards are in our hands so you know we can post ads and we can get applicants and we can family can send them to us and we can look at them and we could say hey we need to talk about somebody real quickly or you know we we don't we don't have to tie our hands here in any way at all there's no harm and zero cost and putting ads out there while we look for a Head Hunter and see what happens and some of these people I'm sorry I wanted to go back to say something about something you said some of these people are looking for jobs for years that's why we got that list of managers in transition because some of those people that it's such a specialized field they're looking for years to find the the right next gig so there it's not like you know we're going to lose someone this month we could possibly but by extending it you also then scoop up more people so I I don't I don't I don't agree in the longterm just like no deadline for this we need to have a deadline need to close it at some point but I would just do it after the holidays no I was just going to say you put a when you put a closing date on the advertisement a person who's looking for a job knows that you're not going to start interviewing until after that closing date so they won't apply if they looking for something tomorrow but the so then when do we have an idea as to when will be the first review like what sort of uh direction are we giving this at hun when it's a review deadline we can't just be like oh we have two resumes I saw one let's talk about him I think we do is when we we find these are two SE these are two parallel things one is get the ad out just start getting stuff in put a deadline just for argument sake after the second week of January and when we talk to Head Hunters they know oh they already started a process I'm going to be getting a pile of resumes to start with they might say great I got some resum understand so you're saying mid January is a deadline to review the first resume hand them off to a head hunter that we would have found by then we can also look at them there's nothing says we can't look at them they're public documents but uh anybody could look at them for that matter but um in the meantime we hire uh we find a head hunter we may not find one you know also we were assuming they're out there waiting to work for us I hope they are um but uh hand it off to that person that that's where I stand you guys Mac worst case we going to talk in a circle around this for another hour worst case scenario indeed.com does have a white GL service yeah to John's point if we're if we're going to start the advertisement right away we need a number what would we be what would we we need to have that conversation that it's not going to happen today well that's but but that's to that's what I mean that's to his point he said are we going to launch into the the budget conversation of what we're advertising at because she can't run the advertisement until we come up with a number you can say is there Harman saying it's $176,000 Allin package just give the total value of package that number would imply it's salary Health FRS it's all of it's all of one just G give an Allin number and that gives us lots of room to do stuff because some people will apply and say uh yeah the all-in amount is great but I don't need health insurance and we can say great then we'll give it to you in an extra salary you know so the idea then and this is just kind of what he's trying to understand the advertisement would say 100 100 hypothetically 176,000 benefit dollar benefit of benefit of dollar value of benefits included in this number compensation package valued at $176,000 everybody is going to come a starting point for negotiation 176 but all in okay total compensation package that's not that's that's not how that's not how jobs are typically posted no typically posted with a salary and the GNA is implied to get to where we're at right now the market um I mean the the assuming a 40% GNA the numbers I heard tonight were closer to 50 probably because of retirement or something but let's just assume 40% GNA you'd be putting out a position at $125,000 do we really think that's competitive to keep someone here for three years five years I don't think so I I I mean we just talk to Mr Sid and he said he would um to be clear he that was for an interim position with no other benefits just to be clear he said he said no to 100 Ian he said yes to 100 he said a yes to 100 that's what I say any inter right right so I don't know if 125 is a number that you guys believe tonight is good enough to post I mean and here's again we're not obligating ourselves to anything we put an ad out tomorrow that says 125 plus other uh you know other benefits we can put the ad out again and change it we can talk about it and change it there's no there's no harm in doing anything doesn't cost us anything it doesn't Tire hands it doesn't obligate us to a person or a date or a nothing it's just getting it out there the perspective of a professional as a head hunter also to determine the salary range I mean usually these are the people this they talk to you know this right to to interest uh candidates and they know the scope and they know the sizes of the Cities I mean they this is what they do they will come with a suggestion and say you would not find what you're asking it's like going for a realtor and asking for 2 Mill million dollar house for $300,000 on the water and 300,000 and you want it all and it's not going to work out so are you hope that someone gives you that reality check I agree the Head Hunter will definitely provide some guidance there um but they will also probably say things like you can post a range yes it will also say things like you will get what you pay for yeah so we could put a range of 125 to 175 and give us time to look in a candidate pool and then make budgetary decisions around that how much do we want to spend that extra money I think we're getting ahead of ourselves we are definitely way we we need to pass today and I think uh to the recommendation of 3 to six months minimum of the entry manager sitting we'll have time to go and find a head hunter have a first review of what the benefits should look like and based on that put a post out there it might not be until January maybe February so so when would so just to put some dates here we want to have some options on Head Hunters by say the December meeting that gives us time was not happen by next week that's for sure not gonna happen is it something doable to find someone as a had Hunter to help us out just to have some things to talk about yeah is it realistic that this commission would discuss start wanting to discuss a um no because you would to your point you would want to hear some feedback from the Head Hunter before you start posting a range so it's going to take a few weeks even during the holidays right to talk to this person to come with their Mage which which means you're probably not posting until later in December do you need to have a commission meeting to make the posting approval or who would approve the we'll have to have the you're probably approving the posting at the January meeting maybe yeah and you have it open for when a couple months we said so yeah it's going to take a while this is the thing that we don't want to rush commissioner I couldn't agree with you more uh I think that we need experts we need Head Hunters what what I'm hearing here is we're we're making this up as we go along and that's not the way government should run I think we need to bring in experts bring in options for Head Hunters select one hear from them let them hear from the podium and have a conversation of yeah this is what the your salary should be if if you want that kind of experience is what you're going to draw and and do this process right I think uh rushing to a posting that we're going to leave open-ended is just T amount of wasting people's time if we don't listen to experts we're not experts I'm not an expert in HR I don't think you are either none of us have have hired a million of these uh executive uh positions these Head Hunters have fa particular field the attorney know and the attorney has his hand raised R try to have and Pam I'm speaking for you as well but we'll we'll try to have some information by the December meeting about a head hunter or Head Hunter services so that you'll have some direction um great done check that's it well then it sounds like uh the direction um Brad and Madam clerk will be to uh to bring us some options for for Head Hunters by no later hopefully I'm going to say no later than December because I I I hate to put a deadline up but it's I I personally don't want it to be any later than that I mean I I'm more inclined to the open advertisement I think that we can sort through these I mean we've done it before and I I would love to get it started but this is the direction and this is this is the majority and and I'm I'm comfortable with that so that's the idea um okay so um that's the next step in our search uh we resolved our interim I don't think we have any more business uh unless anyone wants to discuss anything now otherwise I will be um asking for a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all in favor I hi thanks everyone thank you everyone that's on zoom and that was with us we're down a few people but thank you