[Music] yeah we want to have um so we are Live on YouTube we have zoom up and running and the village attorney is on Zoom excellent where Allan yes where do you uh where would you prefer to be during all this assume you're yep okay is has the microphone been charged or do we have new batteries that would be put in new batteries twice this week so hopefully this one will last fingers crossed okay so then without further Ado we will go ahead and uh call to order our workshop for this evening today's Thursday January 15 2024 and we are here for our Workshop uh with alen Cohen to work us through the uh CIP project list along with the information that was put together uh by our manager so I see do we have any we have our village attorney on Zoom do we have any other participants by Zoom Chris we do have a couple yes so we have some folks here uh in attendance this evening um so I I don't know if this is something that the commission like to weigh on this is a workshop so we're not voting on anything this evening but um I know there are some folks here that expressed a desire to to make some comment before we get started um I have no problem opening up the floor to the people that are here that would like to comment um but it will be subject to our normal public comment rules um there's any other uh any other positions on that or if anyone is has any other opinions we'll just go ahead and get started we should always allow people to comment that's why we're starting with that so uh we'll go ahead and we'll start it with here in our our our Log Cabin um if you would please uh come up to the mic uh give us your name and address and remember please that the public comment is limited to three minutes and anyone can get started for us good evening David Raymond 11520 Northeast 9th Avenue so just for one second on Jonathan's Point um I guess I emailed Jonathan and the commission about an hour ago because the agenda that went out said that you all are going to decide on whether there will be public comment one one commissioner responded that was in a workshop and another responded that there were special circumstances and we're paying the Consultants I just want to put on the record the Sunshine Law is very clear on public meetings unless you guys are in some kind of arbitration with the union or something public comment is not something you vote on I I I really would like it not during my time but it's some time for The Village attorney to weigh in on that because I'm working in government my whole life and most of it here I just don't even understand how that's on an agenda the agenda itself the reason I'm kind of frustrated by this the agenda doesn't really say anything either the so the few people that are here are here because we know about it from next door and from Mac posting things to let us know about the meetings prior to this and when you did this Workshop I bring it up now because it's not just that everything isn't going out because it's not and residents are not finding out about meetings unless you're on next door we used to and when when Allan who's back here wanted all of our input you all emailed the hell out of us we got emails every day please send in your survey participate but now at the end when you're going to decide you're going to vote on whether we get to speak it's it's really disrespectful to the residents and I'm upset by it and I'm just letting you know at I think it's a very unfair position to put put us in and I think it may be an illegal one um so in terms of the plan itself and the priorities I'm not quite sure what you're going to do but when you look at the surveys and the surveys are what people wrote in they're not things that people got a choice multiple choice on um there seems to be a debate online at least between pickle ball and safety on our streets I don't know what one has to do with the other really um and and this is a capital budget I'm not saying that I'm for or against pickle ball get a bid see what it is but also see if we could use the basketball court for pickle ball during the day there's nobody on it we live two houses from the park nobody's there all day long in the weekdays um you had 32 people respond for pickle ball courts you had 143 people asking for Road repairs $18 million was an estimate not sure where you got that but what is budgeted this year in whatever you're looking at tonight for 143 surveys the most surveys $30,000 90,000 is budgeted for pickle ball court by the way um 65 people said we want more trees there's not a dollar to put in a tree it's the first year I think since I've been here that there wasn't any money to plant a tree which and that's time horrible okay there's more but thank you thank you Jamie Anderson 11905 Northeast 11th Place uh first off having lived here since dinosaurs roam the earth I can tell you whatever the meeting was called whether it was a workshop or whatever it was never a question there was always public comments our first Village man manager tried to stop that during Workshops the then commission stopped that real quickly so that's there is a long tradition anyway on a happier note I really want to take this opportunity to thank this commission as well as our police force who hopefully are on Zoom or somewhere at least we're getting started on a on a master traffic plan I so appreciate that there were a lot of interesting things that were brought up but one of them and I talked to a couple of you about this I am very much against with all the things you could spend money on that would be highly productive I don't think spending any money to put those signs those don't think about speeding signs back up is at all a wise use of money Ian there's kind of a psychological attachment that somehow that gives us an image and people will pay attention they don't pay attention to stop signs and speed limit signs the reaction you will more likely get is laughter I can tell you having lived here when those signs were a huge deal the world was also very different fewer people lived in the area it fewer people were coming through there was probably a tendency to follow the rules a little more than you see now I mean at the very least the um the speed trailers had those big flashing lights in your face now something I saw interesting in Hilton Head um on one of the roads they have and I'm going to have to come out from the mic a minute they have signs that are about this high in multiple places so that you're not just seeing one speed table or trailer whichever they're called you're seeing this multiple times and it comes on with a happy face if you're like okay and not so happy if you aren't it's kind of just another idea but I just think there are infinitely more productive ways of spending money than on more passive road signs thanks thank you Barbara C 777 Northeast 111 street I agree 100% with what David just said um you all know me you get emails from me all the time um the communication on this was really bad um I haven't been that active because of personal issues this year um so I didn't attend the workshops but now this is supposedly the end of the workshop and you're coming to some conclusions and you had to really look for this to even know what was going on and the agenda was ridiculous the it wasn't even an agenda it was decide on H if we should let people speak that was it um the information from this survey you had a really be tenacious to go to read what was put out uh to all all the different categories the summary I went back and found um the Strategic plan there was someplace that I found um an overview that should have been here tonight this when you have an agenda this should have been presented so residents could see an overview what were the results you're going to look through 3,000 categories but like David um because David always looks at information and gets to the bottom of it um things I've been screaming about for 10 15 years roads I've lived here I've lived on my in my house for over 40 years the roads were never done on my street the mayor lives on my road when I used to ride my bike my mirror used to fall down from the bumps on that road and like David said just about nothing is in the budget flooding a lot of money for flooding I've also lived here and have seen a couple of Corners with some and I'll use the word flooding carefully because in a in my house 20 minutes later the water's gone but yet all this money is being allocated for this big flooding problem the the items that people did respond to plant more trees about 18% um median swes Green Space 30% wanted traffic mitigation 15 roads 40% pickle bow a whopping 9% and all of a sudden we have the money for pickle ball courts just one quick thing I if go go online the the only pickle bow around us is in North Miami they're only open three days a week in the mornings which means anybody wants to play pickle ball now can come to biscane park I have no problem with people coming and using our park I used to go to in North Miami when my kids were little because we didn't have the facilities but what are we doing with the pickle ball court that 9% of the people think are so important okay thank you thank you an 779 is 119th Street shortly I oppose that pick ball I think it is almost useless I wonder whose idea was it I rather have Improvement of the media I will leave the street as is so people don't speed to be honest 11th west of Sixth Avenue is a disaster I don't know how they have that accident but that's a way to people to go slow it forces me to go to Drive slowly so I rather keep care care of our media in front of my house is a disaster it's a humongous tree the sou part is taken care by FPL my side every storm every rain there are branches on the street and on my grass so the media horrible more police that's what I would like thank you thank you good evening um Tiffany Hill 660 Northeast 119th Street so first I want to say I think we need to do a better job at communication of the different meetings going on uh just listening to people talk and giving their opinions this is how I'm learning of what's going on and it's a shame because the resident shouldn't have to go digging to find information online and wherever to know what's going on in your own Community you know there are certain points like when something's important for the commission or the city or City Hall they'll blast out a 100 emails to get the response they want but other things where we should be involving our residents getting their opinion their feedback we're not doing enough communication to get their insights to involve them in these meetings I only hear it from people when they speak and then in different group chats of people communicating what's going on that's that's how I know what's going on in the community which it is very sad and I do like her point of the natural speed bumps since maybe we can't put them in so maybe that's a great point to have natural speed humps um I do agree with the pickle ball court I mean I would love to have extra amenities in our community but we should put that money useful in another way where residents can benefit it benefit from it more we can use a nice big shade over our kids playground the Tot Lot has shade but the bigger playground doesn't have shade um maybe more shaded seating areas uh maybe a fenced in dog area everyone here has dogs let's come up with other ways to use that money that'll really go to more of a use rather than pickle ball which maybe what do we have a couple pickle ball players we have a beautiful beach volleyball court you know I see a handful of people use those during the week but we really need to use that money to go go towards other things renovating the rec center everyone uses that every day you know what I mean let's make it nicer cleaner better Furniture better kitchen so let's just come up with that and and just please communicate more and involve your residents more please thank you Amy Raymond 1152 Northeast 9th Avenue well um I think that the Speeders are really still speeding but I'm seeing more more police around um somebody stopped me the other night at the recck center and said hey I've got my lights off I don't know how he knew me my picture's probably up in the the police he's like I was like how do you know me he's like um I've got my lights off and I'm ready to catch somebody he wasn't on a good street but he had great intentions this morning I said to somebody they were speeding like crazy up 9th and going to 125th Street and um they were slowing down as soon as they saw that cop with his lights on on the court and I said oh thanks for calming down the Speeders and he said well I'd really like to catch them and I'm but how can you catch them if you have your lights on there but anyway they're trying I appreciate it and I'm going to go through the deputy chief and the chief you know just keep keep that up um but when it comes to communication this is what I don't understand because the last manager not you know I'm not saying anything about you know the new Administration but what happened because the last manager like started he like uh updated the website he was is communicating constantly I mean to me a leader like to me for a leader there's three things communication knowledge and if you don't have knowledge gain gain knowledge that's fine and the the third thing is caring about the people who you're leading so that's how I'm feeling like nobody's caring about me and I'm a little self-centered yes I get afraid I want I want notification is there because now I know a lot of stuff's happening you know the Russian are putting a nuclear you know uh stuff up there and I want to know what's happening about everything so I trust my manager and my Administration to let me know what's happening and I want communication so um I don't understand what happened the website was perfect I don't know why it's not working anymore you go to the calendar you try to go to the agenda and it doesn't work the the zoom's not coming on we're not getting notices about commission meetings and I don't don't understand why so anyway I'm hoping that'll improve because that'll make me feel safer and everybody around me feels safer when you get communication and I just want to thank you all you know for doing what you do because I I don't think I could do it I know I couldn't do it so thank you thank you Ryan Huntington 744 Northeast 119th Street I want to talk about the document you guys will be working on tonight night to prioritize our Capital Improvement funds this document comprises data from a survey sent out from you the commission to us the residents this was the greed upon metric of which you would prioritize our funds I want to talk about some specific projects on that document and the funds that are allocated for that fun for that project dog park zero dollars currently funded traffic mitigation 56 residents voted for it0 doar currently funded Z were proposed me improvements 101 residents for zero currently funded only $110,000 propos pedestrian amenities 83 residents for Z doar currently proped proposed sorry Zar currently funded and not expected to be funded until the year 2027 these projects have been advocated for years for years they've been falling on deaf ears told we don't have the budget for them pickle ball 32 residents voted for it that is 1% of our village population $90,000 and it was fully funded in the first year why can pickall not wait while these other projects have been waiting patiently grants coming in the future do not protect my children now this money is here now and can be used to improve our village for all now safeties is comprised only $6,000 of a $600,000 plus budget that is less than one% if this V this budget is passed the way it is it'll show me show me and us the residents the does this commission is committed to 1% safety and 100% pickle ball thank you thank you we have no others in the Log Cabin we'll go ahead and turn to our Zoom a few hands up here first person on Zoom is just uh iPad you'll have to unmute hi it's Howard Goldman from 11950 Northeast 6th Avenue first I'd like to just clarify on a couple of points that were made earlier it's not one pickle ball court that we were speaking of it was two pickleball courts I think somebody had commented on ni door about $90,000 for a pickleball court it was an incorrect statement it's two pickall courts no lights parking would not be affected in the evening time um as it would only be for daytime play um pickle ball has become a very big sport worldwide as well as Nationwide the comment that was made about there's only one pickleball in the area of North Miami was another incorrect statement several pickleball courts have sprung up within a 10 mile radius just to name a few Miami Shores Miami Beach the golf course um holover they've got additional courts being built started with four they have another four being built right now so it's constantly growing and for what reason for Community togetherness and health and fitness we have nothing in biscane park that Advocates that within the park certainly It's a Wonderful Park to walk around to walk your dog around and you C bring your dog inside the park but only on the exterior of the park I when I first moved into the park in 200 2005 I tried getting a lot of people together and on board with a dog park it failed miserably I've watched several items come up and get built and built and built and the can gets kicked and they all die because finally when something is about ready to pass people start screaming that oh there was money available let's pass that on to something else why don't we just focus on one thing and as I said on next door I will be the first one that will that will help to add the vate for the safety and and building up of our streets safety and speeding whatever we need to do I'm all for it but this has gone so far we can actually get something p in biscane park which would be the first thing that I've seen potentially passed since I moved in here in ' 05 mark my words you new residents this is a problem and I hope that we can all come together as residents and show the commission that we support what they've worked hard for us for over the last year and we we'll all be able to come together and continue to grow and build upon this and make biscan Park as I Envision it a time ago with the future of a dog park with the future of of building up the playground with the future of making our streets safer whether it be speed bumps or more police on it and the police have done a phenomenal job I got to give them a lot of credit because they've been on top of everything on that and that's really all I got to say I hope you all can be with me on this thank thank you next on J on Zoom is Judy hi um I just want to say that when we're thinking about budget the most important to me and should be anybody that lives on 119th Street is the fact that there is not one sign that says 25 miles per hour if that is indeed the speed limit um and I also want to make a correction because the police report the PowerPoint that was shown last week that said that there was a damaged Tree on the incident that happened let me tell you my car was totaled my carport my driveway I have estimates of over $40,000 for that not to mat mention the trauma of seeing three people that are now deceased I really think that the budget should go towards let's put some signs up because how do people know because 119th has become a cut through from North Miami Tuesday night another accident on 119th and six um people are using it as a cut through and um and they're speeding how do they know that it's 25 miles per hour if it is if I'm correct How do they know that if there isn't a sign all down Griffin there are 25 mile per hour um signs and I really feel that the budget needs to First consider the safety of the residents here because this was a traumatic incident that happened and could have been much more traffic much more tragic if somebody had been walking their dog as they do down my street or a baby in a carriage and I just I have to tell you when you're thinking about spending money we need more police presence especially on 119th 121st isn't a cut through because there is the right only sign on 6th Avenue 119th Street is a straight shot wherever you want to go from North Miami and people are using it and it's people that don't live here and they don't know what speed limit is so I am begging you to please consider spending part of the money on signs that say 25 miles per hour and more police presence please because this is something that has affected my life that I will never forget and I didn't go into it in the last meeting but when I saw that the police report said a damaged tree I was insulted because I'm pick picking up the aftermath of everything that happened here at my house so I would appreciate it if you would consider please putting some money into signage in biscan park 25 miles per hour that's time thank you thank you Bob yes um what I I think really believe we need to be looking at a data collecting Speed trailer I've been mentioning this a numerous times by having a data collecting Speed trailer you will also know the speeds of each car the average speed the number of cars going down the road besides having a sign showing how fast the car is going this this way the police can go ahead and use that data to know as they move the trailer around what areas really need to have an extra amount of officers out there for speeding cars and at what time it is happening I think it a save resources of our Police Department by knowing where to be at the right times also we used to I used to get uh emails for the city from time to time of upcoming things it just seemed like that has Dr fired up recently in the last few months an example is this meeting there should be spe there should be data I mean information going out to the public letting them know about these meetings in each meeting and you know we were asked to go ahead to sign up for for these email blast emails for the city but they seem to have vanished thank you thank you Laura hi Laura Graves griffing Boulevard so I have two topics one is the pickle ball courts I play pickle ball in Miami Shores regularly several times a week and I said this in the last uh meeting that I zoomed in on I actually pay to play uh and I would love to be able to have the opportunity to play in bis k Park and I'd be happy to pay to play in biscane park um like Howard said it brings communities together I've lived and owned here for 26 years and I have never been able to really utilize anything in the park it's always being used by outside entities which is fine but I think I should also have the rights to be able to utilize my Park uh the second topic is if we're looking for some potential revenue streams for the community why don't we look at electronic charging stations for electronic Vehicles as a potential source of oh my [Music] God good thinking um if you could continue Miss Graves I'm finished thank you have a good night thank you next up would be Howard hi there this is actually uh Liz Goldman I know it says Howard because I'm on his computer um I live in 119th Street and six Avenue um I've lived here as a resident for 14 years and I would just like to say that I am um for the pickle ball courts I don't think there's been any money spent on Recreation for adults in the park for years um and I think pickle ball is a great opportunity to bring the community together and for families to have an outlet you know we have a great kids facility over there but nothing for the parents or the adults so um you know it $90,000 I thought was a small percentage of the budget I think there needs to be some clarity around that um you know traffic also is a big problem but I think that it's a huge problem and we need a lot of dollars um committed to that and there's always the conversation that we never have enough but that shouldn't mean that we can't do anything else um that's it thank you thank you that is it for Zoom okay thank you to everyone who um here in the cabin and on Zoom that provided some additional public comment for us um since we aren't in a a normal structure um I will still open it up to see if there's anyone that wants to provide any reply or contexts or anything with respect to any of the comments that we've received before we ask Alan to introduce the the workshop for us okay I'd like to say a couple things if I can am I not close enough there you go okay sure can I have a couple minutes yeah of course great um didn't get a chance to speak much at the last meeting we were very tied on time there was a lot of public comments know I think I know everyone in this room somehow I used to work with her husband at the Herold I mean that newspaper you probably don't know what that is but um my name is John Holland I also live on 11 19th like seemingly half the people to show it up um and um I was uh obviously uh clouted when when when Mac reached out to me um ironically I had met the mayor serendipitously the day before and it just seemed like a good thing to do so really quick just want to add a couple of things uh that I didn't get to say last week one is obviously I'm very concerned about traffic situation I hear you guys I'm on one that car got 2 six who the hell knows where it would have ended up right you know so it could have been could have been me but I get it um but I think that my value prop for being on this uh commission is is hopefully going to start to come into play tonight which is that I have an extensive background corporate and capital planning financial planning I'm not personal finance corporate planning and things like that and one thought that keeps coming to my mind is you know we're talking about a capital Improvement plan I assume that means that we have a fixed assets Ledger and that these are things that are being amortised over time so at some point I would love to get a better understanding of what's on that ledger what we're what debt we're servicing now and what we feel our capacity for debt is that'll helps me as a you my former life as a fixed assets manager for a newspaper um would help me figure out okay what do we have here like what is our real budget I really don't feel like I know uh this the PDF Excel sheet doesn't really seem to make that clear unless I'm missing it also I would love to get a copy of that in Excel I think it's easier to manipulate to read through and all that chat so I don't know who can provide that but love to get an Excel version of that even if it's soft copy that I get to play with enough to a shared docum um and the point of mentioning all that is because I really feel like there's a lot of people saying it's got to be this or that know this this well I don't know if that's true yet because I don't know what our capaity is I don't know what's going on the operating Ledger versus fix assets I just to she I'm hoping assuming that'll become clear as we go forward but I think before we start pitting ourselves against each other with it's got to be this or it's got to be that I think we should all understand what that limit is and then from there obviously we have to make some I'm not saying it'll be easy obviously but you know I think that that's Clarity that I need to have that what is our capacity to add on things to our leder that we can advertise and that'll help us obviously prioritize maybe that is a good segue to have Allen uh and our manager introduce uh the list that we have in front of us the Excel sheet they have the data where it came from what the process is um and I would certainly I don't want to overlook our village attorney who is also on if he wants to provide any additional context with respect to the workshop format for this evening and the discussion that we're having um and I absolutely no disrespect to what anyone has said but we we aren't passing a budget necessarily this evening we're not voting on anything so um that's not the purpose I don't want to mischaracterize what the purpose is so I would love to hear from the folks that set this up for us uh because I don't want to put words in their mouth so Alan if if you wouldn't mind just introducing this for and kind of give us the benefit of your background in in the process here please thank you mayor um and good evening everyone uh my name is Alan Cohen I'm the consultant that the village hired to facilitate this uh process uh after having put together your strategic plan at least the first phase of the Strategic plan um commissioner Holland you I don't know how much you know about me or you so I I'll briefly tell you that uh I'm a former uh city manager I'm a former city mayor I'm a former assistant County Administrator I'm also a former business owner um uh of two or three different businesses actually uh so I I come uh and also an avid Community volunteer by the way so I come at this exercise wearing many different hats and and sharing many different perspectives in whatever you want to call this up here all right but um and there there's value in bringing in an outside person sometime because they're neutral presumably so and and I can assure you I am and my intent in coming in is to do the best job that I can for you um with the limited resources that you have um so the Strategic plan as we put it together was an opportunity for this community everyone here and everyone out there to express the priorities that they had for the community moving forward and we were delighted by how many comments that we received we exceeded statistical you know milestones and whatnot and uh we got uh really good feedback uh and uh to the gentleman's point we got some clear ideas on what community priorities are uh and and that was the purpose of the exercise the purpose of this exercise now and why you elect these people here in front of you is they have to balance the priorities that you have with the actual capability and or capacity of your community your financial capability your organizational capability um how many staff you have that can take on additional things how much money you have to fund additional projects or fund additional staff or whatever it might be in this case we're focused on a capital plan so we're we're not talking about additional staff we're talking about actual projects um I'd like to walk you through some of the assumptions that went into um the the document that you saw before you and after that I'm going to ask the manager to make a comment on one of the items um that uh was spoken about a lot and actually a second item that just came up from the commissioner um so the assumptions as we look at this is the when the commission finally votes on this you'll be voting on a long-term plan but you're really only locking in the expenditures for this fiscal year next fiscal Year's expenditures won't be locked in until you do fiscal year 25's budget but what you'll now have is an additional tool to help guide you that balances the community priorities With Your Capacity Analysis [Music] um annual CIP C Capital Improvement plan Capital annual CIP funding is projected in this at $400,000 a year that's all the village can afford considering everything else that the village has on its plate um and the biggest chunk of your money goes to what you'd want it to your Police Department by far that is the number one expenditure in your budget um the we put in a 5% contingency into the plan uh to account for unexpected increases in costs beginning in fiscal year 25 half of the $400,000 or 200,000 is allocated for um in this plan for Road Improvement because that was one of the if not the biggest priority that came out of the community sentiment or the community priorities okay um some Road repair and replacement should be able to be accomplished during sewer installation so we we know that this is also another high priority of the community and it's something that is likely to be imposed on the community at a later date by either the county or the state and that's going to involve tearing up roads why fix a road when you know you're going to tear it up now there are roads that we know not going to necessarily get torn up by sewer and those could be targeted and you know the manager and I spent a good amount of time talking about a lot of different strategies and that was one of them so there are places where you can start and not worrying about it's going to get torn up again and we can show that to you later um if you're uh so inclined um we there there's three pieces of equipment in here uh two uh generators and a wood shipper and we assume that uh those would be leased to own rather than an outright buy because that spreads out the cost over um several years and it allows you to also fund other priorities during those ensuing years we assumed I I'm very conservative in my numbers and I assumed a 20% increase in total increase in the budget for that equipment the the actual interest cost these days on Capital Equipment is anywhere from 4 to 16% so it you know like I said I was very conservative so if you're wondering where those uh those final numbers came from um the traffic um traffic infrastructure one of the reasons why you don't see a lot with traffic infrastructure upfront in this plan is because the village has been fortunate enough to Garner a Federal grant to do a compreh comprehensive traffic study looking at all aspects of traffic for the village Federal funding comes with a lot of strings with it but the positive side is once you have that traffic study done you will be much better positioned to get additional Grant funds to do the actual Capital work that needs to be done work on on improving the roads Road improving signage looking at access issues look looking at at speed mitigation measures whatever you end up deciding what to do but that is specifically that's one of the ins assumptions in here is that we have to give time for that traffic study to be done it doesn't happen overnight because federally funded projects do take a little longer process-wise and I I know that from experience um but and and you'll see uh Chris I believe we assume that it would be done by the end of 25 which is why in 26 you start seeing a number of different lines related to Traffic infrastructure being funded okay so that that explains uh the particular delay there um Grant estimates assume 100% funding no local share except for roads and that's because we've already told you we're putting in some local money for roads that is an optimistic um assumption because there are many grants out there at the state Federal level that required some local share okay so uh but sometimes you can use a state Grant to count as a local share for the federal you know and you can be creative um but I just we want to be clear upfront about those Grant assumptions that we have here later on okay because there are some big numbers there but the only way you're ever going to get some of these project done is with grants because you simply don't have the financial capacity otherwise and the sewer project is probably between sewer and the road replacement those are your two big um your big nuts to cover um design and Engineering is assumed to make up um 20% of project costs and so every number that practically every number that's in here except from the equipment and some odds and ends uh there's it includes 20% for design or 20% for planning and and that's um uh we again just wanted to be clear on that and uh another thing on grants grants are assumed to be available not guaranteed um uh we're Chris and I are both aware of a variety of grant funding availability but that changes over time like right now there's great money out there for infrastructure that um because of the federal law we don't know how long that money is going to last and and the sooner we're in a position to apply for it to better um so Chris um first uh the commissioner raised a question about debt which I think I can answer but I think it's more appropriate that you do yeah we currently have no bonds so there is no Debt Service that we're paying okay um the last the last Debt Service payment I believe was 2020 is is there a reason for that that was that just a commission decision to not carry any debt just or is that okay rephrase it is is that normal for a Municipality of this size with this type of Revenue screen the short answer is it depends um there was a cons not a considerable there was there was a a significant amount of debt and Debt Service incurred I believe it was after some of the storms so I'm not sure my history only goes back until August I can't speak to to what the commission was thinking back in 2018 1920 commissioner it's really um a local philosophical decision uh I know for example Lauderdale by the Sea uh has no debt um and that's philosophical they don't want to take on any debt um so they just try and fund everything with grants and they're even better off than you guys are because they're right on on the ocean um as far as property valuations but um it it's it's a local by locality decision but I wanted I wanted you to be clear that that 400,000 was a fairly hard number based on the current structure of your budget and wasn't going to variate because bonds would be paid off in the future yeah I think I was misled because I would memorization of the budget yet I tend to learn these things over time I they look at spreadsheets all the time at work eventually only looked at it through weeks but also because of the word capital and I'm in that I'm in the world where when you say capital you're talking about things that have a use for life of more than three years that should amortized blah blah blah we are talking about really an operating budget no I'm going to jump in on that we are we are talking Capital so um capital from the perspective of roads for example your explanation less amortization will be paying cash essentially as we sit right now looking at this um as we get down or as we get through the capital Improvement plan um some of the things such as uh Road repair septic to sewer um some of the larger projects we can certainly look at amortization we can look at bonding opportunities um but as for the purposes of tonight this is all set up strictly cash Jonathan may I say something to Brad sure um one thing that we have not talked about when it comes to funding is Raising private money as well so we do have the ability to raise money to pay for some projects it's not something we've done as long as I've lived here unless it was in some for some very small kind of things but um I I want that to be part of the conversation because I'll just use pickle ball as an example you know it's like you know pickle ball money could come from a number of places and we could raise money we have a foundation that can raise money for us we have them doing some other things and they've never really worked at the direction of the commission since I've been a commissioner we've never asked them to do any specific thing but we do have the ability to raise money on our own as a village from from private corporations and wherever we can get money so we do have that ability as well so we talk about where money comes from that's not a bucket that we're dipping into at all and there might be opportunities in here for the commission to make the decision that we will go after money elsewhere to try to get something done there are companies who will sponsor things and naming rights and all kinds of possibilities just throwing things out there but let's not forget that that we do have the ability to go get money on our own it's a good point and um to to tack onto that um and to also follow up on a point that Allan raised um I remember when we we were talking about this Workshop I think the first time we were here um I I mentioned that I would provide what Allan and Chris gave to us to David certa um and or lobbyist and um I had the benefit of speaking with him just the other day uh he had a chance to go through everything that was provided it was a brief conversation regrettably he was UN unavailable to be here with us this evening but um I asked him in summation at the end is it fair to say that your representation David to the commission is to prioritize water projects because the the funding is is more available right now and they're more favorably looked upon so that was really the benefit of his advice it didn't really go much more beyond that but to your point Mac um he said uh if you partner with other local municipalities that's another good way to to go after money and that you say look if we're looking at like the tri Village area for example we're partnering with elportal and Miami Shores on septicas SE just for sake of argument you know it's more it looks better uh to fund that for a larger impact than just just this G Park so something also to think about but he made he made a good point on that um so Allan I didn't know if you were finished or if no no um so uh one one other thing and then uh again I want uh Chris to comment on this um the you'll see on your spreadsheet and there's a key in the upper leftand corner there are several lines that are in yellow and one of them uh and and yellow means in progress okay um one of those is the uh item that was discussed a lot tonight about pickle ball and uh Chris I'll turn it over to you so just a little bit of background on this um typically what happens in a capital Improvement plan is a municipality plans out all their future projects everything from structural infrastructure um if there are major data Telecom things like that plan it all out um in the budget they assign money to the capital fund and then this Capital Improvement plan is what decides how we're going to use the money in that fund this is the first year we've had a real solid Capital Improvement plan it's a little bit of a transition there were several projects enumerated in the budget meaning when the commission set the budget they said specifically we want these funds to go to these projects and then on top of those projects they put $350,000 into the capital Improvement fund to be used um as this Capital Improvement plan specifies so those projects were the vulnerability study Log Cabin Ada improvements Log Cabin Ada walkway recreational improvements pickle ball and parking lot so you'll you'll notice on the actual Capital Improvement plan um as Alan mentioned the pickle ball tennis court upgrade is in yellow that's in progress um that shows that we have $90,000 set aside um in progress for this particular project means we move forward um as a village with obtaining the um the requests for proposals requests for bids um and then the way the projects the way any of these projects work once we get those bids we bring them back to the commission open the bids identify who the lowest bidder is and then at that point the commission votes whether or not to accept the bid and move forward or to not do anything so in progress doesn't necessarily mean we're definitely doing exactly what this says right now and progress could mean um that we are simply getting bids so just something to keep in the back of your minds um the other thing to keep in mind is even though we do have projects you enumerated in the budget um and perhaps our attorney can just double check me on this um the commission can choose to use those funds in a different way so even though we have um $20,000 for the Log Cabin Ada walkway the commission could vote to decide we're going to move that over to something different water fountains or or something along those lines unless it's Grant funded correct if it's Grant funded it's a whole different animal the other reason that the capital Improvement plan is a little bit funky is because we do have some funds that were allocated for projects in fiscal 23 we have some funds that were budgeted for fiscal 24 and now we're talking about additional things that we may add to fiscal 24 and on top of that there's potential some potential grant funding available in fiscal 24 and some grant funding that has already been awarded for fiscal 24 so it's a little bit of a mess for some of these projects in fiscal 24 as we move forward the plan and the property for use of a capital Improvement plan is for the commission to identify which projects we want to take in which order and then it becomes my job along with the grant writers um and along with our lobbyist to identify the funding sources that we have available to us a lot of the grants for example won't even take our application until we have a capital Improvement plan showing when we're planning on attacking these things what comes first what comes after um so they can decide whether or not to give us those Grant funds so I'm sorry I may I ask a a quick followup question Chris um the back to the pickle ball you put an RFP out can you update everybody on that that closes this month um I believe next week um and then we will have the the bids to open are you allowed to reveal if you got anything back or how many you got back or I don't know if you're legally you're allowed to say that at this point uh in my experience I can't um back in Wisconsin I can't I can't tell you what we currently have um or if you even have any at all yeah the cone of silence is is what the clerk is saying there's we can't interfere in that process you can't do that here either can't do that in Florida you can't discuss it time to open the bids and it closes I'm sorry it closes when I believe it closes in one week so the 22nd 22nd okay so so let me let me offer a summary of what I heard Chris say and what we talked about before there was there was expressed interest in looking at some upgrades to recreational facilities including the possible addition of a combined tennis court pickle ball court um Chris move forward to um get some information to bring to you at which point you would have to make a hard decision whether or not you want to move forward with the project so in progress doesn't mean that you you've committed to funding it uh and you can decide tonight or another night that you want to change direction and reallocate those monies however you see fit okay so I just wanted everyone here and everyone listening to understand why those monies uh are there I think it's also worth just mentioning for some folks to be reminded some of the things that people said I'd rather have this than that some of those things are funded in our regular budget so if you look this is a separate part of the budget and things are specifically delineated in here but we have the full budget where other things are fed for as well so some of the things that I heard people saying they wish we had are funded in the budget and are underway already just as a reminder this is not the extent of the money we would spend to get all these things done by by the way there there are a couple of numbers on the sheet that I wanted to clarify because one of your speakers Did comment on one of them um uh there was a mention that um 101 responses came out in favor of improvements for for the medians we actually had about um 50 between 50 to 60 some OD responses in that regard but we also had close to the same amount for green spaces plantings and improvements they all seem to fit together so I combined those two categories so we didn't have 101 people come out specifically just on medians we did have a good number nonetheless I can't remember who said it was it you no okay all right but just just to clarify uh that particular number I think all the rest of the numbers um are unique and identifiable from uh the survey uh as as you know it okay um so at this point um you have a draft Capital Improvement plan in front of you um for this year uh 330,000 of that is allocated with 20,000 set aside as a contingency for unexpected expenditures um and and that's I I would say to you that's where you'd want to focus but not exclusively because of course there's a tie in between this year and subsequent years if there's a particular project that's not in this year that you still want to get started okay what I want to point out is that everything is interrelated so um you could easily defund one project and move all that funding to another line for example you could take the 990,000 and pickle ball and put all that into streets that's easy okay but if you want to take that pickle ball money and move forward something else that's going to have a domino effect on everything else it's not any that we can't handle it's just you got to give us a minute to figure it out and tell you what that impact is going to be and what capacity it either freeze up or or has the opposite impact on future years okay so um with that um I think we should uh open it up for discussion if I could just interject one quick thing sorry um with the grant funding um as we've mentioned the the items that we've identified as potentially funded by grants are definitely not guaranteed um and we certainly don't know if there are grants available what our share of that funding would be what the match is going to be the other thing I wanted to mention is if there are any projects in farther out fiscal years you know fiscal 28 29 fiscal 30 those are still projects that are on our radar and if grants or other funding opportunities come up for those projects we have the opportunity to get that funding then we can certainly bump those up when that funding becomes available and we don't have to wait until that fiscal year commissioner yes so um quick question so Rules of Engagement here what do you expect um as a delivery document at the end of this session we have three hours so what would be ideal how are we going to finish and how we start and how do you guide us well as I can't guide you on priorities that's really your decision as Community leaders okay I can guide you on the inner relationship between projects Chris and I together will do that um what what the financial organizational capacity limits are for certain things or the grant impacts are uh because of what we know we have or is coming um uh I and I'm not expecting to walk out of here with a completed a document tonight uh I expect that um I'm going to take notes I I'll be able to look and and figure out what some impacts are and say to you okay hey I have this hole here we have to fill or I have extra monies here we need to spend um and and throw that back at you uh it's going to be very iterative uh back and forth and um I don't know if I answered your question commissioner yeah so we have you um so um for three hours we only have this session so I just wanted to make sure realistically to see what we're going to be able to do um I'm sorry didn't C so Mr Mayor if I may maybe this is a good time for me just to lay down legally what the parameters are as to what you you all can do tonight sure um so with everything that's been discussed just so you understand so everybody's understanding um this Workshop is is really for the purposes of discussing the items that have been addressed by Allan and and Chris for you to discuss um priorities um you're not making any formal Vote or any formal decision tonight on how to proceed on any particular project um you're just here to kind of discuss amongst yourselves because obviously the only way you all as a collegial body can discuss these items is in public so this is your opportunity discuss them to try to come without no formal votes but a consensus is so that Chris and Allan have an idea what your policies are with regards to moving forward with the plan and um and then at some point they will bring something back to you um during a me either a special meeting or or a commission meeting a regular meeting where you can take um actual action formal action on how to proceed thank you Bradley thanks Brad so then if Allan if if you're interested in kind of opening it up for discussion purposes do we want to just get a a a rundown very quickly of what we have here in the in the the fiscal 24 budget sure Chris you wanted or you want me to your callot I can my done all right all right so in fiscal 24 proposed um I'm just going to quickly run down from the top feel free to jump in if you have questions um the first item is an emergency generator so we've identified or we will be identifying that the police department and parks and wreck need an emergency generator um in the event that we lose power for an extended period because of a storm so what we anticipated doing was leasing the generator at the Village Hall police station um and that would be a roughly $20,000 um out of this current budget the next item is a license can I stop you as we go absolutely absolutely so and why is it a lease I was wondering about that so no it's a Le commissioner it's a lease to own okay so basically it's ours to notes right at the end you you literally pay a dollar and it's yours yes okay but it just allows you it's it's kind of like financing yeah uh but it's not okay it m assumed it had to be leas to own but price does seem a little it is commissioner as I said I was very conservative in my numbers um and and uh I don't know if you caught it but we we actually are expecting somewhere between a four to 16% uh interest hit on a lease to own Arrangement not 20% Which is what I put in to have a safety margin so what would the hard cost on that be Chris if we were just to purchase it instead of leasing to own purchase outright would be right around $100,000 I recall or you were here we talked about a generator once before and it was for the Rex and it was $60,000 and plus this would be the plus uh running lines and stuff to a some electrical stuff and gas lines but the generator itself was 60 so are you saying the cost you just said is the all in cost or just for the generator itself nope that's all in that's installation I installed eight generators last year um and they averaged out to about $100,000 that includes running the um running electrical lines reconfiguring the panel if we need to reconfigure the panel that includes the fuel tank storage if we choose to go that route okay so it's $100,000 Allin and if we do the lease at the end of the lease to own what will we have paid an interest in total I just hate paying interest on things anywhere between 4,000 and 16,000 most likely it could be as high as 35,000 it just depends on the the term you're saying correct and so the purpose of this um and it was highlighted so one thing I asked U for me was important get in from Chris was what are those things per Department that are and must have in order to run operation right so what are the things that actually we need and of course people are not going to know if we have a leak in a roof but we need to make sure to take care of it so staff is safe so we have operations running whenever needed so this was one of the things that came up so you said in the case of an emergency if we have a hurricane and everything shuts down um I think e was when it had I think it was out for nine days in my property out of electricity we had to go somewhere I mean it was impossible to in there so there would not be operations to run police department and anything else so this is one of those it's not a nice to have but sort of we've never really invested the way you said it and it is in case of an emergency and it does hit we've been lucky I guess so far um we need sort of this going especially for systems like Police Department running and safety Etc yep absolutely and commissioner um I would add to that from an emergency operations and emergency response perspective you're going to see a similar line at parks and wreck um that's really your only choice for a community facility if you need to hand out uh food water provide um temporary shelter for you know in in some instances although I don't want to specifically say that because I don't know how the building's rated and whether or not it would be appropriate but yeah there are um a variety of different purposes uh that you would need at least one facility like that outside of your Police Department because you don't want everyone and their uncles showing up over there yeah when they're trying their best just to keep things running and maintain Public Safety okay so that's why that's why the generator is included for both facilities so in the case of both when we talk just about police it's 135 the estimated cost plus the uh when you say engineering design uh I'm guessing those are the blueprints of where it's going to go the lines Etc and that would be times two correct because that's the rec center and the one at each yep um so um okay I'm clear on that one okay all right well I was just gonna say that that's both emergency generators so we got a line we can skip when we get there but continue absolutely um next in line is the license plate License Plate Reader pole cameras um we have one in four for $66,000 the reason we only have one is this is something that's new in this area um I would prefer to have one full camera right now to make sure it's going to work make sure it's going to serve our needs versus installing 10 of these and finding out that we just wasted $60,000 so the license play po camera is for police Public Safety what that camera does is it includes a video of every vehicle that passes it including license plates this is used for those things like uh porch Pirates um the roing people that try to get into cars things like that once we identify when and where the crime happened we can use as pole camera to try to identify vehicles that came through uh next item down the list is the pickle ball tennis court upgrade we've already budgeted $90,000 for that um as we've mentioned that's not set in stone we can choose to change that um give me a second Chris where you at so we were in the emergency generator you said okay you Veronica commissioner you see that you see the three gray columns yeah okay the column immediately to the right of that is the fiscal year 24 total yeah so that total includes what's already been budgeted uh and then there's another column for possible grant funding and then a third column for uh additional proposed items and then that that column I just pointed out to you uh the next white column after the three gray summarizes the totals for everything so that's the column that Chris is going down right now the total the total correct Chris I'm sorry y yeah sorry going back to the generator you said this is for one but we need two right we would need two we would need one at the police station and one at public or at uh marks and W the other one that's line 35 commissioner the capap is is divided up by roughly by Department oh I see it I see it okay thank can you show me in your Excel where you see the totals that we were talking about it is column s here okay so you're just adding you're going where you have budget so you're you're not going through the list per se on column A or you're just correct just the things that we yep those things are affecting us 2024 correct okay so commissioner what we're doing is first reviewing what is proposed for this fiscal year and then giving you an opportunity to go back and look at what's not funded to discuss anything you want to rep prioritize so can I ask you a question on the camera so this is an a test it would be a test that we would do it's $6,000 where does all the data live who Revis this dat data you don't have opix expenses over here yeah that we haven't chosen a vendor and they VAR widely so I can't put something Concrete in here what I can say is generally speaking with these the data lives on a central server and access um maintenance things like that could be anywhere between $500 and ,000 a year roughly a year a year and so the idea is that we would test this for 2024 and you don't have it for the rest of the year so based on success we can include it on the following correct correct okay and is this used for enforcement or is this sort of after Thea information this is after the fact so you're not you can't use this to tiet Speeders for example no okay this is if something happens you have something to go back to to see who was coming and going down that particular Street in and out of the village yep that's that's part one so this is one of the solutions that that um or one of the names we've we've uh hit around is a company called flock safety um these were the this is the company that I use for Dane County um back when I was an elected supervisor for the town of Burke we used them for the Dan County Sheriff's Office in our area so they provide that after the fact finding out what vehicles were were where and when um also in addition they provide traffic counts so if we were to put this up at the intersection of 10th and 121st for example um we would be able to count how many cars are coming through that intersection using this technology that data that we're allowed to use at the county level to request changes to traffic mitigation yeah can be incorporated into a traffic study as Standalone separate from a study they would also accept that data yep do other municipalities around us have this now I have no idea um okay because this was not part of our budget where did this come from this is just one of the solutions you and the Chief came up with this is one of the solutions that we came up with so the capital Improvement plan is a mix of things the commission has mentioned uh things that were the the Strategic plan things that I asked my department heads if we had money what is it you would like to see um as well as resident um resident comments and concerns it interests me and I'd like to understand not tonight but I'd like to know more about this before we would proceed with something and make sure it's all usable information it would provide what we're looking for and then I immediately go to uh public records I don't know if these are subject to public records and the storage thing that Veronica brought up we've tripped over things like this in the past where we do things and then we don't have a way to maintain it use it properly store it access it I'd want to make sure that we're really prepared for that but it sounds it sounds interesting Mr wman yes thank you um so I'm very familiar with these cameras we've used them in other jurisdictions um so to just to briefly talk about some of the other applications the manager is correct is to the applications He's listed but some of the other applications if if they also will create Hit lists if you want to use utilize them and what I mean by Hit List say that one more time Brad I yes they some other people that you can create you can create Hit lists or you can utilize H and and the way exactly the way they work is let's say you have a stolen vehicle that's been reported in either your jurisdiction or a neighboring jurisdiction or you have if there's a vehicle that's wanted for some reason say the registered owner has got a warrant out for their arrest there are lists that are compiled and what these cameras do is they take a picture of the plate real time they can automatically run it through these lists and then they can notify local law enforcement that a the specific vehicle from coming from whichever list it is just hit a camera at this particular location so it gives real it can give relatively realtime in um investigative information to law enforcement to act upon law so Brad law enforcement agencies are communicating with each other through this feeding information into neighboring if North Miami for example knew we had this they would be letting us know they be feeding this in plate information for example into it so it yes it it reads what it does is it collects data from other databases and creates these these hit hit lists hit lists that they call and so what will happen is it sends an alert people that are sub the law enforcement agencies that are subscribing to the service will get that alert alert and it's pretty much real time and they can react to it as far as the the public records there is some public record requirements but generally the vendors will maintain the records in the cloud they do in cloud storage with some redundant storage if there's any um criminal justice information required um and so that's usually part of the subscription fees for these cameras that the manager was mentioning earlier quick question how many entry ways do we have have into the park again do we know the top of our head there we have about 18 I believe anyone was close can I question this one seems like a no-brainer to me the question is if you only have one where to put it yeah I think that's probably maybe long term you have to think about well I can think of three or four ke locations 8th nth yep absolutely we have people coming in constantly do you had a you had already a one in mine was in 112th and which one what did you said 121 and 10th okay so it could be that's the discussion but at the end of the day one and that could eventually turn into more I have one practical question Bradley um keep me honest here I don't know I'm making this up but say I you know one of the traffic concerns I hear a lot from residents that Speeders are constant and we know about or maybe we hear about them and they keep doing it is this something you can look into the video and say who is actually this person and get a license plate and after the fact you know make a sort of a violation ticketing is it something that you can use to enforce or is it basically we're searching for someone particular yeah cannot can't use it for traffic enforcement it's not traffic enforcement has been preempted traffic laws have been preempted to the state by by the legislature and the legislature would have to authorize as they did with red light cameras and school bus cameras um they would have to authorize tra um speeding enforcement through cameras and they're they're not there yet so you would not be able to use that um but it does the cameras do record um they I you can set parameters as how long they'll you can you want to keep those recordings although the more storage you keep obviously the more expensive the the subscription is for for the um the maintaining of the records but um you cannot use it directly for the traffic enforcement may maybe to your point I think like in the example of the white tow truck that was speeding down 11 19 for two or three months we could use the camera to see if no one could get their license plate if you couldn't get the license plate if you couldn't figure out where they were ending up you could use this technology to maybe try and figure out where they came in and identify them that way and then have a police officer sit there wait you know date and time you could probably do something like that exactly got it for people who are doing it constantly I mean exactly Parts have seen the same cars constantly zipping in and out so maybe for that um sounds like a great idea yeah right so um Mr manager what's uh so we've passed that emergency generator we pass the not pass not voting pass please that's not what I mean we we' down the list move next so the the next item on the list is recreational improvements Rec Center upgrades I have another question for please I I did bring up uh during our conversation um so the chief talk about opportunities of increasing our police presence which we have actually seen so does this mean there is a te tactical opportunity of a budget assign per month on top of what we currently have on the budget or are you saying there will be no impact of this increased visibility we're seeing in the fiscal year so these are these are going to be two totally different conversations um for the purposes of the capital Improvement plan the capital Improvement plan doesn't care about how many officers we have or what percentage of the budget is going towards that um as part of a regular meeting a regular budget conversation the commission can say let's set aside an extra $5,000 a month for additional Patrols or whatever that that might look like and you would be so the money not necessarily the way I see it this this list is pretty much we're playing with money sort of say um that on projects that we would like to see um but the basics need to happen so if we need 5,000 additional you would decide and present where they would come from are we talking about moving budgets around is that possible or are we talking general fund that would be up to the commission um the budget is currently set so if we want to set aside additional funds for any one type of service or what have you and we would have to pull that from someplace else and that' be a decision that the commission would have to make to take 5,000 a month from Parks and wreck and move it into policer or whatever that would look like and commissioner I just want to point out that we did anticipate these types of questions and uh we didn't get all the way there but if you look at column G you'll see annual Opex which is operating expenditures so we've started to fill that in to give you a sense of what the the companion operating budget impact would be yeah Chris and I spoke about this in detail I was just wondering um what I wouldn't want to do is we spend a lot of time going through our budget right we had several meetings about that and we made sure that operation is safe across all the Departments with everything we wanted to see now because we choose to specifically focus on traffic for example and we've seen already more visibility and it was proposed by the police um to come forward with some sort of additional support um where the money is coming from can really affect anything we've already decided so most likely the answer is either general fund or you have to resign to a project in the CIP and that's where I'm going with this question do we need to say those $5,000 will come from this budget in particular projectwise to supplement what the police department already has or no it can come from the general fund and we'll have the conversation it could almost come from anywhere as long as we approve it Chris can come to us and say he wants to move money from one toart he could say I want to take Public Works money and use it to spend on additional police and if we say yes he can do that correct Chris correct yeah or he could take money out of the general we we have lots of options when it comes down to where will the money come from yeah I want to uh dovetail on your question I think this was your original part of your question and and and it went over me Chris at our last commission meeting regular commission meeting we asked you to come back in March with prices on two things one was the don't even think about speeding signs and the other was this other police extra police force that we called traffic enforcement something um so that's not in here so is this something you is that something you'll be bringing to us and that would be completely outside of this because it's not in this budget necessarily unless we would decide to do that cor okay so that's why we're not seeing it here because I know some people were saying where is that that's something completely because it wasn't ever part of the budget conversation it's a new thing we're dropping in we haven't decided on anything but you're going to bring us back information and we'll decide so I'd like to make a just sort of a comment to bring this full circle so that everyone's on the same page here um these items on the CIP the capital Improvement plan are typically one-time items they're nonrecurring as opposed to what I I thought I I heard you talking about commissioner and I'm not criticizing I'm just clarifying here for the listening audience that an ongoing recurring expense would be part of the operating budget the this first step of creating a CIP is is a first step you eventually do want to have a separate capital budget that's distinct from your operating budget and um and let's say you end up not spending those monies they get rolled into that capital budget to fund that item the following year rather than getting lost and I've seen this happen in other jurisdictions getting lost in the general fund budget and spent on something else and you lose the momentum or or everything on the particular Capital initiative that you had prioritized and had initially um so the um but in recognition of the relationship between the two Chris is going to be coming back with more information on annual operating expense impacts for these one-time items but if if you want to as uh the commissioner first pointed out reallocate money from this budget to the operating budget um you you you wouldn't you wouldn't use Capital Monies to fund operating monies because the capital monies again are non-recurring but you could vote as a body to say we're going to reduce the capital budget by $5,000 now it's $395 instead of 400 and we're going to add it to the operating budget okay Department we move from and when you say annual operating expenses that's the column that you guys are still working on that we see some column G yes things are popular correct so Chris when you say when Veronica asked you about the license plate pole cameras and the ongoing expenses that would be that would live in that column correct for the vast majority of these projects we don't have the ability to get that into that much detail at this point because we haven't even decided what they're going to look like you know we had we'd have to pick the vendor and everything else to be able to get down into that level okay Chris let's keep going all right let's hit it uh uh 25 yep 25 recreational improvements Rec Center upgrades this line shows something that's absolutely key and crucial to a capital Improvement plan and that's separating out the design and the construction so we have for the rec center upgrades $8,000 set aside this fiscal year and then you'll notice next fiscal year we have 32,000 set aside so the way this process works is we have an architect and engineering firm come in tell us what this is going to look like draw up the plans determine what it is that we need um map out for the rec center upgrade for example if we put in an additional concrete pad if we have to look at additional HVAC equipment or electrical put all that together what that's going to look like and how much that's going to cost once we have that plan in hand that gives us the ability to seek that additional funding whether it's through Appropriations whether it's through grants whether it's going to the foundation to say we need to raise $40,000 for the building whatever that looks like um we spend the $88,000 this year to create those plans and then in the next fiscal year years we start planning out the funds that we're going to need to actually Implement those plans or do the construction so for this this year we estimated roughly $8,000 for some of the rec center upgrades to plan them out and then next fiscal is when we're going to start paying for them so I'm sorry Chris so what are the what upgrades are included in that line there Rec Center upgrades um this is generally internal stuff um so the one of the one of the comments that was brought up was um improving the kitchen for example um this may be adding additional covered outdoor spaces um this may be um adding additional um sales whatever you have over the the kitty park right now um this may include um if we determine some sort of projector or AV system those types of improvements and and if you'll look the very next line is Rec Center uh expansion so the improvements does not include that that's accounted for separately uh because there was expressed interest in in the in the survey and elsewhere and seeing that Center expanded but I ask you I just wanted to differentiate between that can I ask Chris um the estimate the estimate for the 8,000 what's how close do we anticipate that being where does that number come from the $88,000 is typically what would be required um we estimated the project at about $40,000 which is roughly average for a small Municipal Building um the actual the actual improvements or or correct necessary repairs I guess correct correct that's about average what we would spend on a building of that size for something along these lines the the ideas that I just mentioned um the 20% is estimated design and Engineering um that's based on my you know 15 years of experience um it's typically never going to be as high as 20% it's typically a lot less but for the purposes of budgeting we want to make sure we set aside enough for those for that engineering service so once we determine that upgrades like this would typically cost $40,000 you know that's that's where the $8,000 comes in can I ask you a question so you have 40 on estimated cost and you have the 20% eight then you have on column s f FY 24 propose additional eight what's the difference between that and column T column well let me let me explain a little bit here column p q and R add up to S and then um T what but why did you um what did you add this like why is it one possible Grant fund and the other was a propos additional what do you mean by that what are you looking at I'm I'm column R and column s yep same line which is the rec center improvements yep you have $8,000 on column s and they're duplicates commissioner okay so duplicates so it's it's just um column R are all the additional items being proposed column s is a total of PQ and R let's use yeah can we use actual names of the columns instead of the letter and number designations because folks aren't going to be able to the um the proposed additional projects um are again what's proposed for this year the fiscal year 24 total includes what's additionally proposed what we expect possible grant funding and then what's already been budgeted so we have budgeted for how much this year $8,000 those no no you didn't budget anything yet for this project they proposing saying as part of the additional out of the remaining 350,000 um The Proposal is start with the design for that project $8,000 okay okay so I'm I'm a little confused about this still because I didn't understand what this was on here and it sounds very sort of fuzzy around the edges I don't know what this project really is so it's 40 it's I know it's it's $88,000 for design a total of 40 by the end of next year but do you have a list you can show us of like here's what the project includes no and the reason is this wasn't identified as a specifically we need four cup holders eight chairs and six benches or anything like that um the the items that were brought forward we're generally speaking 26 people wanted to see some sort of Rec Center upgrades because we don't have it that granu granular yet we're estimating what a generic average upgrade type project would cost so if this is something that the commission decides they want to move forward with yes we want to move forward with those Rec Center upgrades that's that $8,000 comes in to figure out what those would be what those plans would look like and what the total would end up costing okay so I'm a little uncomfortable with that because I want to know going in before we spend $8,000 on design and this is just my personal desire I want to know what what is it that we think we need is it we need a new refrigerator and the and the faucet needs to be replaced and all the plumbing needs to be fixed in the bathrooms and the soap holders aren't working I don't know it just sounds very vague and I don't want to spend $8,000 someone come in and tell us what we need we should know what we need before we start a project well so commissioner um you you could bring in a design firm who's and you can phase it first phase is do an assessment come back to you and Report these are the things that we believe need upgrades it could be aesthetic it could be functional like the kitchen it could be mechanical um and and I differentiate between replacing a light fixture versus having to upgrade the wiring in the wall why wouldn't we decide that first why do we need I'm sure a designer could come in and tell us we need all kinds of fabulous things I'm sure they'd be happy to take our money to tell us we need you need to renovate this whole building and here's how much it will cost it I wouldn't have a designer come into my kitchen and tell me here all the things you need to do in your kitchen I would first say the refrigerator needs to be replaced the dishwasher is leaking all over the floor the cabinets are in good shape I'll just get them repainted instead of replaced I would know what I want before I have someone come in and tell me what I want because there are all kinds of people will be happy to take our money but it seems to me if we say our rec center needs renovation and I'm going to guess a lot of people that answer that said that in the survey are just saying that building's kind of dumpy it should be it should look better is is there a way that we can I don't know call this out or anything else that we don't have granularity yet that we're not comfortable yeah that's what we're doing here tonight yeah just yeah so this one has me a little like I'm I'm not sure what we're spending 8,000 I know what I know that we could spend $88,000 very easily like that we could spend $80,000 having someone come in and tell us what it should be but I think we need to start with a list of here are the problems at the rec center that need to be fixed and it could be aesthetic it could be you know what and what and it needs to be painted too it looks crappy and I was going to add to that so um I agree I think we need specific list of things that need to happen and I would like to see a column next to it with what the foundation is doing and what the current plans for that and there's that yeah and so you have certain projects that have been happening for the past couple years you guys have been working on so there's stuff that's going to happen that not necessarily comes from our budget exactly so part of that is check check check um yeah for the CIP I think you know if you come home I can tell you a list of things that need to happen we sort of need the same thing um from from eel from you know whomever but a list detail list on that and just comparison on what could be done uh with the foundation and what is being done because you give them money right so I I think at a minimum what we can probably do is is sit down with staff and and and do a deep dive into this come back with a list of specific items that staff has identified um based on their operational knowledge and based on what they're hearing from your constituents I thought it was going to be Chris some I'm sorry some hard stuff there isn't there aren't there still some issues at the rec center with leaking buildings and things I thought that's what this was going to be more about yeah and I was going to say because just to to be on the same kind of continue on what you're saying for me that there are two different things one is what the community would like to see to the the point of oh it looks it doesn't look great well maybe it's the color you know but we painted it three months ago I don't know they're currently painting the inside of it um and there going through major renovation and we've added furniture and it's uh you know books and and we have all sort of stuff going that it's been ongoing it's not finalized but that's stuff that nobody else would know except for ISSA so he kind of needs to go through the list right that's how I'm thinking and it could work it's a list of all the internal stuff the community then can say we want a better rec center and that could mean many different things programs and all the sort of things but the mass have versus what you guys are doing the foundation I think that would be the the first list and it might turn out that we need to put more money in it you know it might turn out that you know we get this list so folks I think we're really clear on on your concerns and we can come back and address them very go Chris all right the next item on there uh going down to row 31 placeholder for a dog park this was identified as part of the Strategic plan I don't have any information on what this would look like um I can the estimate that I gave for $90,000 is roughly what it would take to erect fencing um and the other necessary infrastructure just out here next to the Log Cabin this one is a little different in that the design would be $188,000 just to make numbers work a little bit we budgeted the $18,000 for design in this fiscal plus extra with the balance coming out in fiscal 25 do we know where this is would be targeted geographically we do not no we we we threw around some ideas um which we don't want to get into tonight that's a level a level granularity that all right but I I I just want to add that what we we talked about the possibility of two fenon areas so you have a small dog and a large dog which is what most facilities have and we also talked about um parking spaces um where we we did look at some opportunities for centrally located facility but even that is still going to be far away for some residents who are probably going to want to drive to it uh so you provide a minimal number of parking spaces and hope that most people will walk their dog to the facility uh but it so includes you know the upgrade to the to the the land the fencing signage the parking spaces and so Ellen I think maybe a little bit of clarification might help um at this stage in the process of planning a capital Improvement plan we are not down to that granular level we are saying big picture these are the things that we would like to have this is roughly what we can expect to pay for these things that we would like to have and the commission decides yes this is something worthy of donating or not doning but uh allocating time and money towards once that happens then we get into the details then we get into the which streets can support this which medians can support this which fence companies would we use what would those fences look like what design firm do we have to choose and what would those exact expenses be so at this phase of the capital Improvement plan it's more I guess you would say big picture um where do we want to go what do we want that to be and then once that decision is made if we decide yes we want a dog park no we don't necessarily want Rec Center expansion then we can focus in and getting those additional details and then that's the level of detail that we come back to the commission saying okay you said yes the dog park here is the fencing company here the options for locating it here's what this is going to look like is that fair Alan yes it is and by the way the reason um we assume planning for something like this once you made a decision isn't going to take that long it's a pretty simple thing which is why there's some construction money in there in addition to just the planning money in that first year so it's not just 18 but it's 63 so Chris the $90,000 you said was for f it was your a guesstimate that included fencing and that's fencing potential parking um the waste receptacles that we would have to have um all those sorts of things the the infrastructure to create that fenon area did you contact any other cities or buildings or communities that installed any to see what they spent for the dog park no instead of contacting communities because each one looks different um I contacted several fencing companies to say hey just ballpark something for me if we're looking at putting in 100 feet of fencing in a concrete pad what would this look like okay is there and this is maybe too granular but is there any kind of um uh insurance is there any kind of other impact in other departments when you add a dog park in liability kind of things that then become part of the picture I know that would kind of be an ongoing thing but is is there any additional expense like that yeah that's that's kind of getting down into the weeds the answer to all of these is yes there's additional considerations um if we have a dog park then we have to take a look at how much it's going to cost us to purchase the poop bags how much it's going to cost us to have a parks and W Guy come out and exchange the bags those sorts of things a bigger thing like Insurance like is there some challenge with that okay main chall also on a on a on ongoing basis will be a question right Brian question to your point yeah absolutely so the what we need to what we should try to accomplish is focusing on what things we want to do that gives me the information I need to say okay this is what the commission wants to accomplish now let's get all those details and then we decide whether or not to move forward can I ask do we have um so we have a lot of when it comes to um dogs particularly we have some stuff going on in the village so we have certain stations within different Corners where we have the poop bags and the the the crash uh bands trash cans are there opportunities I don't know if you guys have noticed about other are now being addressed that they never were touched and I don't know when they were installed um but it seems to me that there are few areas that they could be added to um as an sponsored as well I can't see you yeah there you go they they were sponsored and I think paid for I don't think they came I don't think they necessarily came out of the village budget I think some residents sponsored them and had their dogs you know like deceased dogs put on them kind of a thing okay didn't pay that's good oh this SE what well someone whose dog passed away it's like in memory of Pho you know yeah look at some of them they have the dog's names up there and the owner's name yeah so that was my first thought and then the second is um so I don't for me this is the bidding process so we already went bidding for Picket bow and although pick was um down the list we did that and I think it was the idea with that when if I I didn't vote for it but I know they original idea was let's see how much in money it is right um so that we can consider or not this is higher on the list just following the same rational would say let's just find out what exactly would it take um and then that's the other thought that comes to mind is where because I think that's the biggest thing and liabilities and I think you wrote it up so where would this something like this be and I think that would define the size and the scope of the project and then liability so it's a big kind of guess cost at this point and so why not bid for it just ask how much would it you know take I can tell you that we're going to have to spend about $118,000 to figure that out um because we're going to have to start with the um land use surveys where we can fit something like this where we can park people um we're going to have to take a look at how we can accommodate those cars we're going to have to take a look at the planning um we're going to have to take a look at things like buried water lines um if there are buried lines are you saying the 18 Grand that here for design need to be spend for us to figure out the answers to your other question we didn't do that for pickle ball Pi yes you know what I'm saying like pickle ball is a little different in that we said in the northwest corner of this park we want pickle ball tell us how much that's going to be yeah so it was a very specific situation or something like this what did we identify four five different locations that this could possibly be um trying to figure out where it can be what that would look like we would need that design the commission can come back and say we want to put a dog park right out here next to the Log Cabin I can make phone calls tomorrow and know exactly how much that's going to cost because with pickle ball we gave you a SI we talked about a size with a location we gave we tightened it up for you a little bit so you could cor we could do we Veronica we could do that we could kind of and let him go get a harder price for us and that would help us make that decision I just think it would be fair to have a clear estimate maybe together with power Work Director um getting a recommendation from him in terms of where could it be placed um I you know initially I'm saying for the biding process before we even move to design I mean the same question applies that we had for pickall and that we discussed was are there pipes under there that you know we can build a concrete hat on um there's sold this questions in up in the air um until we actually go through design but just do due diligence on finding out if there is a potential you know there is interest um certainly more than the pickable was already showcase so baby we ask for help with the staff to designate an area and you come to a proposal on a commission meeting for item where we can talk about potential sizes and potential and based on that um commissioner could you just clarify which item you're talking about dog park the dog park okay and then I'm GNA something I said earlier I'm going to bring it back and this is the perfect example of something that we might go raise private money for so it could be that okay we find out it says um 990,000 here let's say it's 40,000 let's say it was a lot cheaper or we just said we'll do one for now and see how it goes and maybe we'll add maybe we'll do one now and have dogs of all sizes and then if we decide there's a need to have you know a big dog and a small dog then we do another one uh but this could be something that we say let's go raise the money let's go raise the money let's go ask all the local vets and the dog grooming places and the dog boarding places and let's figure out how they would what kind of money they would give and would they get naming rights and what da da all of that stuff this is where we get creative and we try to come up with things that are outside the budget and save the budget for more important things what I call harder things you know yeah look at a you know $90,000 that plants a lot of trees and fixes a lot of Roads exactly that's what I'm saying is like we can we can start getting creative and and deciding every year is you know let's give ourselves a project to fund privately every single year and how we're going to make that happen and what it looks like you know I hate to sound like paulana like we'll put a show on in the barn and we'll raise all the money you know but it's kind of like that it's like you know you go ask people for money and you be surprised people that will give you money you go to all the local Realtors who do business in town you know stuff like that so Alan maybe you can maybe you can help me uh vocalize or explain this so what I'm looking for I absolutely agree it would be great to have this additional information I don't know whether I need to get that information for the dog park the water stations the activity Pavilions The Band Shell um or what have you so that's kind of looking for that guidance from the commission as to what's important I don't know the best way to say that can I can I suggest to that something I mean you tell me because this could be very simplistic way of looking at and it's not not like that but um so Military Trail park over here very close to us has um adult par can we go through the county and talk to them and say how much did it cost and then calculate based on the space it's just as an average and then present that to us and say this is sort of and you know in any any given median the larger spaces plus this corner that we have available here I mean the Open Spaces that we have you can identify you can't fit more than a 20 x 20 a 20 x 20 based on a comparison to another city is yeah absolutely and I think I think I think we're saying two different things I'm I'm not saying no that's not what we should do um that's absolutely the way to approach this once we figure out what we want to do what I'm saying is there's I don't know 80 90 projects on here that's enough to keep a manager busy for the next 10 years where do we start okay I see your point all right okay so if you're looking for so you're looking for us to kind of I know I know we're not voting on things tonight just to kind of like how enthusiastic are we about things like this exactly what's I'll say that I'm enthusiastic do park or water park dog park I'm very enthusiastic about that's what you're looking for before we start making statements like that let us get through the list okay that's what I was going to suggest I think we go down it we see where the other money is and if we prer to put and then we have that discussion about what your enthusiasm okay at that time are we going to be able to go back and say okay there are some things on here that weren't discussed to start this year and I think they should be or we do that now as they're as they're pasted after we go through the original list Chris all right so the next item on there is the emergency generator at parks and wreck and I'm not going to go into more detail on that um the next four things are projects that are somewhat already in progress um The Parks and Rec electrical design Log Cabin roof and Ada walkway edberg Park master plan and log cabin parking lot those are things that were all either funded in fiscal 23 um wholly or partially or um were uh enumerated in the current budget and the money that we see in the 23 fiscal year 23 column where is that money now I don't see it in the 24 columns sitting in the checking account so it's just sitting there and it's still accessible to us so anything in the 23 column is really still in play as well correct got it right and and commissioner if you look at FY 23 allocated um let's say the the electric design project follow it over to FY 24 I see it there yeah but I see it every okay no no and you're right the log cabin is in the grants column and Ed Burke is in the 23 column and the Log Haven parking lot is in the FY 24 budget column so different places okay trying to pull it all just want to make sure that that's all still in play yes so with e each of those projects um those are self-explanatory let's keep going thank you Public Works um the Public Works equipment building um we're looking at about $120,000 this is to repair the or to replace The Condemned garage um so this is the about $224,000 for the design and Engineering for it um and then the balance is the actual construction um this is completely raising the existing garage um putting in the appropriate concrete pad below building the building which is everything from HVAC to electrical to structure we're talking about a pretty simplistic Butler style building if you're familiar you know the metal structure yeah nothing nothing extravagant you're currently spending money for those containers that we have in place we purchased those and it wasn't that much it was actually under my purchase Authority we will get to keep those and we could keep them ideally we would sell them once we get the building erected the less junk back there the better dog [Laughter] park um so that is that is one of the projects that I highly highly highly recommend that we keep in this um CIP and accomplish this year um and the reason is I'm going to get on my soap boox a little bit the reason is um we need to protect our equipment um if we don't protect our equipment come this next rainy season we're going to have all sorts of issues with animals getting under there to hide and chewing the wiring and everything else okay which which item are you talking about that was uh 41 Public Works equipment building the next item in the list is uh number 43 median SES green spaces planting and improvements um this was identified um as Allan had previous previously explained the combination of things with 101 people for it what we're proposing is spending $10,000 this year we're going to have to bring in things like Landscape Architects to determine what this is going to be um so let's go ahead and get that plann this year and then next fiscal we can talk about the actual implementation costs now this is indicated as a most likely able to secure a grant type of expense um if this is something the commission wants to move forward with then this is something that we would start focusing on locating grants for generally speaking in this area we're able to get grants for things like this generally speaking those grants usually don't pay out until the next fiscal year like the one that was related to the log cab that we've discussed right it depends it depends okay so you're saying uh I see that it's it's a grant but you're saying a total of 40 to spend here in the next couple in the next two years I'm sorry 40 to spend in the next two years 10 of it would be design this year correct okay well my only comment on that is I'm not certain we need to hire a landscape architect to design our medians we have done fine things through our parks and Parkways board and I think $10,000 spent on a consultant for a plan is a lot of plants that could be put in place so that's my feeling on it I think we can do that on our own I think sometimes we need to like sort of like sort of reain in what we really need so I'm gonna contradict that and the reason is a lot of the grant issuers want to see those plans so one of the things that I try to do is present the plans this is specifically what the architect is saying we should do um or what they recommend that we do um and then we have that exact data for the grant reviewers and Alan you're going to jump in but you're saying it's $110,000 for a grant and $10,000 for design so it's a wash and commissioner I'm I'm gonna ask if we could just get through the list and then go back and no I'm sorry we started by having comments about things as we went so are we going to comment as we go or we not I'm not to be argumentative but it's what we've been doing all of a sudden we're going to stop the only point I want to make is a $10,000 Grand is going to pay for a $10,000 landscape architect and it doesn't buy us a bush so commissioner I I've heard questions and other items okay um and well I asked a question and I got my answer no and and you did but Chris's point is critically important is that having a a formal structured plan enhances your ability to get the grand funding that you're going to need okay but I'm looking at what you put in front of us Allen and you're saying $10,000 Grant $10,000 for the for the design the landscape architect it's a wash so you got a grant to pay for a landscape architect and I'm saying we don't need the landscape architect architect so we don't need the Grant and ,000 Grant $10,000 landscape architect we paid for something I'm saying I don't think we need is my point so what do you need the grant for if we don't need the landscape architect that's my point there are typically two types of grants available and this is like for example the safer streets for all that we're doing the first type of Grant is planning and the second type of Grant is implementation so um we can go out and get a $110,000 grant for planning those funds can't be used for implementation we can't say thank you for the $10,000 you're planning we're going to buy $10,000 trees or whatever I understand that but I'm I'm just looking at these two numbers side by side $10,000 grant ,000 for the landscape architect if we don't need the landscape architect then we can say no thanks we don't need your Grant and just spend the $30,000 that we were going to spend anyway no but the $30,000 is predicated on you having a plan developed by a landscape architect or the board we have a parks and Parkways board that if we worked with them and got them act for how many decades Barbara did our parks and Parkways board do a beautiful job designing things for us for free and and we do have a plan and we do have a plan so the there may be a misunderstanding because a $30,000 in fiscal 25 proposed is also a grant no well it doesn't say that here yeah it's in blue everything that's in blue is is I'm sorry is is a grant okay Chris let's uh move on please all right uh jumping down to removal of compromised trees that's already in the budget that's already proceeding um same thing with the uh saber streets for all ss4a Grant well actually can you clarify that in light of the new Grant so we had originally put aside about $20,000 for a traffic study the safer Street sprw Grant is a total Grant to us of $100,000 that requires us to have $25,000 matching so what we're doing is using the 20ish th000 that we had set aside for our own traffic study as the required match for the state for streets for all so instead of getting a roughly $20,000 traffic study over four specific intersections we're getting a $125,000 study that focuses more on need safety um accidents things like that rather than just just counting traffic traffic counts so the the the more haired down version that we would be for sake of argument you know if we were paying it for it on our own we'd be getting a more paired down version of a traffic study then so we're saying by matching this grant we're much bigger and that just opens up options for us just want to understand it so when sa streets for all comes back and says the intersection of 10th and 121st is a problem intersection because there are these accidents there that carries a lot of weight when we go back to the saber streets for all implementation grant part of that and say all right you said this was the problem help us pay for it but it does include traffic counts too so it's what we had talked about before and a whole lot more correct and it's also uh will it cover more geographic area of the village because that was our other limitation was only certain places in the village for the other traffic study it's I'm going to I'm going to put the caveat in there again like I did at the last commission meeting this is a brand new Grant it was just decided in December nobody has done this before um our understanding at this point is yes this is a if our understanding is correct if your understanding is correct this is a big gain in on this General Topic in terms of the data that we'll have to move forward effectively and make sound decisions based on facts correct all right jumping down to roadway drainage improvements this one is a little bit messy um and the reason is we have some funds set aside from um fiscal 24 um we had I believe all of this was going to come out of CIT funding um however one of the things that I asked our grant writer to work or our lobbyist to work on was Appropriations for these projects so even though we've already set the funding aside we may be getting grant funding um if we do get that grant funding that frees up what we were planning on spending so that we can start applying that to the next phase of the project so instead of just completing phases 1B and two we might be able to depending on what we get for Grants seriously dig into phase three and start some of that work as well an idea on timeline I don't um it passed the house um which as long as the governor doesn't veto means we should be getting at least $400,000 um it's it's really up to the Senate to pass their version then it has to go through reconciliation and then it has to get through the governor's office this is what you emailed us today did you send us an update on this today no I don't believe it was today I know I've sent an email update on it so the the bottom line is there's really nothing to discuss on this at this point you know we've already set the funding aside and we're working on additional funding sources for it um jumping down a little bit um we have Road repair upgrades um we are I am proposing that we budget $330,000 that we include $30,000 in the CIP budget for this fiscal year um and that is going to be for to start with this stretch right out here by the Log Cabin where is absolutely falling apart and there was one other stretch I don't remember where off the top of my head um or we would be doing some grinding down the other thing we could do instead of that um instead of doing those physical repairs right away is bring in an engineering company to take a look at our roads overall use that $30,000 to fund the study to tell us what is high priority um and what can wait and let me let me add excuse me I'll add to this on something that Chris and I discussed um you have looking ahead to the Sewer project most of your roads would host a pipe a forest main okay the exception to that would be um where you have large medians okay in the case where you have a large median essentially the road is split one of those two roads will host a pipe the other will not okay so um what Chris and I talked about is looking at what the existing infrastructure is under those roads one might lend itself better to having uh a force man and the other might not and then the one that doesn't is a candidate uh for future Road Improvement that we wouldn't have to worry about being torn up later S I I I think I misunderstood something you said we have reg we'll call them regular medians like uh let's talk about right out here okay this one would have one on each side this is a large median there would have to be a drain there would be a sewer line running down each side they wouldn't no you're saying the houses here would go all the way under this huge median yes oh really yes absolutely I me know the smaller ones like 117 Street most of them the narrower ones that makes perfect sense right because it's popping under like a six foot medium so they would connect this house would connect all the way over there correct it's easier than it if you have the right equipment right you you do uh the longer the my point my point is the longer the distance the more gravity you have to deal with more gravity to get downstairs true right but there's horizontal Directional Drilling and and other techniques to to do it it is pretty easy or easier than it used to be so the other the other item I want to or the other consideration for this particular line line 59 Road repairs upgrades um I have't estimated total cost of $18 million that is a very broad very huge guess um most of the roads in biscane park need work to some degree or another um we cannot afford to do all of those roads so what I propos doing is dividing up those costs over the next 10 fiscal years um you'll see for example fiscal 24 I'm proposing 30 and 25 it goes up to 200 and then 300 and then 400 the purpose of doing it this way is to try to identify how long it's going to take us to accomplish all those assumed repairs um but the other purpose of doing it this way is for the grant and allocation or the appropriation funding perspective by us showing what we're planning on doing that gives us the ability to apply for some of those grants and get some of those Appropriations both for the road work and separately for the sewer project which could have a profound impact on the spending in this area as correct and um just where are we jumping down to 66 in administration oh no no I was going to just say that that just for the listening audience we have 120 so Chris talked about 18 million for roads we have 120 million listed for sewer that's to put in sewer for the entire Village and that is actually a good educated guess um the rough cost is $60,000 per parcel and we have uh it was roughly um I believe it had roughly 2,000 parcels about the sewer connection so in Miami Miami Shores is currently uh in the process of this and my understanding is that the homeowners themselves have to pay for the connection from their home to the the main line right yes any idea what that cost is today 60,000 a parcel $60,000 per household yeah no no no wait no no two different no I think he's asking you something different oh okay not not the installation of the forest main but for a homeowner to connect to the forest oh gotcha gotcha gotcha anywhere between 15 to 25 15 to 25,000 correct sorry funding the funding the discussions you know and and some and let me anticipate let me anticipate two questions um one is that uh some jurisdictions um will pay for that outright some will subsidize a portion of it they'll try and get grant funding to do so in the case of a situation where you might have a main going down one road and not two you might pay for the extra distance to get over there so that everybody's equitably playing for the same to get from their home or property to where the force man is and and you would cover those types of situations that would be fair okay and the other the other thing to consider with subject to sewer is this is this is something that is being discussed a lot um specifically because of biscane bay so this is definitely on the radar of the local municipalities the county um and the state as well as the feds so there's I'm certainly not going to make any any promises but there is a fairly good chance that we will see funding coming down the road most likely what that would look like is uh North Miami U Miami Shores elportal biscan Park all get together and are part of this big project with um funding coming from federal do or EPA or who knows what that would look like all right jumping down to Administration 66 uh line 66 the resident communication systems update already funded already or already budgeted already in progress um and the same thing with the vulnerability study um our kickoff meeting by the way Mr mayor is going to be on that 28th we'll have the First Community input on the vulnerability assessment I have a question Brad a comment I'm sorry Alan um yes sir uh Chris can resident communication systems update lot of comments here tonight about Communications can you just fill everybody in on what that is exactly please yeah absolutely I was hoping to present a a demo of that last uh last commission meeting um we'll have to do it for this next Mission meeting what this is um it's an actual biscane Park app the public facing side of this is the ability to contact any Department within biscane Park government using the mobile phone residents can for example take a picture of a pothole and that goes direct to Public Works take a picture of a code violation and that goes directly into code um so it's that initial initial communication on the back end it is an entire workload management system so once you take that picture of the pothole it goes into public works we now have that in our system we can track when the request was made where the where the issue is we can we'll know if there are multiple people um having the same issue or or noticing the same problem we can start tracking how long it's taking us to respond to resident inquiries um we can start planning um if we have five people recording or reporting the same pothole we know what to focus on next month some of our funds um the other piece of the biscan park app that's coming out is the Public Communication piece there are push notifications that go to cell phones so it's a push notification for the cell phone it can go out via text you can go out via email um and it also interfaces with uh Instagram Facebook and uh next door for notifications so the challenge that we currently have of course is 20 different systems with 20 different logins 20 different ways to report with our new communication system we type in the message we need to get out we hit the button and it goes out everywhere that we needed to go so that's the so questions on the communications the $35,000 price tag on I thought it was less than that it is less than that $35,000 is what was budgeted so what is the actual hard cost we are going to be just north of 9,000 I believe for that for that particular component that app then you had the web uh rebun yep we're going to take a look at the doing doing the web redesign project we have the public records requests software on there those are things that we don't necessarily have the exact cost where yet because the whole idea of the app and uh this the feedback I gave Chris I think it's a great idea as long as it's fitting from a well sourced website correct otherwise it will be a mirror of what we currently have which we know we have to yep we're currently deficient on the website and it's only as good as the number of people people who are aware of it and are engaged with it and that's the purpose of my bis Camp Park app we just got done with our meeting I don't remember what day that was they have a whole slew of uh marketing materials for us that we can Implement that'll be we'll be coming before the board with that information at a later Point next vulnerability study this is also in progress um the first I let me back up Shameless plug for the V vulnerability study we're going to have our first public input session on the 28th uh week from I'm sorry the yeah the 28th a week from Wednesday next Wednesday um this is actually going to help guide some of the other projects that we have listed on here the vulnerability study is taking a look at our drainage infrastructure what structures are um in danger if we get uh 10 year floods 100e floods King Tides major storms that sort of thing this is going to guide us for some of the infrastructure projects that we're doing this may change the future phases of the drain installation projects um so we have that kicking off any questions on that otherwise I'll jump down to the next one all right next one is 69 electric electronic access Chris yeah can you go back up to line 67 I think think we might have glazed over that vulnerability study no right above it resident Communications no The Log Cabin you don't have that on yours no I have a uh there must be a hidden row what is the project I log cabin roof and walkway it's indicated as being funded by oh you know what that's it's a duplicate it's a duplicate no it's a duplicate I'm sorry commissioner Y Line 37 yeah 7 it's up there it's over here okay yeah line 37 wait a minute line 37 up on I have the same line that you that I have the same one it's on it's on both it's under it's under parks and wreck as well this one I see it is in under fiscal year 24 total I see it in my version here being funded by Grant up there it doesn't look that's the case or is that just yeah look at look at line 37 line 37 is correct the total projects is going to be $156,000 um we are expecting a grant we're just waiting for those funds to come through for $78,000 um that is going to be the design in the first part um we have limited information at this point on what that Grant is specifically going to cover because it hasn't been actually given to us yet but we expect that $78,000 so so about half of its Grant and half of its hours correct and and it says log kin roof and Ada walkway Chris does it also include the lighting cuz when we got had someone come and design this for us a couple of years ago this was already designed once and and I don't know if you would consider a design that you could implement but we did spend money on this already um it included lighting as well no his lighting was a whole lot more money but it was on the estimate no no it showed the price for it because it had it had schema of like how where they were required to be and yeah exactly but I thought the plan showed it like it they so as one it was I think initially it did yeah but then but then it was scaled back because the cost was and then a couple people around here didn't want like well that that I know of but I think we need to get back and have that conversation because we were told by the attorney at the time that it's a lawsuit waiting to happen the Grant application did not have lighting the grant application was um refurbishing the roof and then adjusting the Ada walkway and access out here and that was done before my time so I don't have that history on it when it comes back up we're going to have to kind of loop back and have that bigger conversation because we were it was made very clear to us by our attorneys that you know we could find ourselves in a bad place because of the lighting up okay yes all right so next up is uh my line 69 the electronic Access Control at Village Hall and the police department Department um technically speaking we only need electronic access at the police department however there's a lot of traffic back and forth between the two buildings especially after hours so it makes sense to do the electronic access at both what this includes is the key card access with a card reader so officers rather than have physical keys will flash their their card on to the reader that lets them in the building um this logs who is coming in which doors who is leaving which doors and when the other component of this that is critically important especially as we look at our upcoming accreditation is uh biometric access to the evidence room in the police department um so one of the things that we had looked at um to be able to let me back up right now it's still physical so you punch a combination you punch in a key code and you're able to get in that does not say that it was actually me using my key code that just says my key code was used so by putting in Biometrics which is either a facial scanner kind of like the time clock we have over at uh public works or a fingerprint that is going to log without a doubt who that person was that was accessing this is adding an additional layer of accountability um and we need that both as a preventative measure but also as an auditable um track of who's going in and and where um this cost I've actually received this is under the threshold for request for proposal um we just need the three bids this is probably going to come in closer to 25,000 rather than 35,000 um but we put in 35,000 for any un unanticipated issues next next up is moving the Log Cabin to the Village Hall area and Chris I did did something change I thought this was a grand item you thought what was that I thought we had this as a grant item did that change electronic access or the No No the moving of oh the moving to Village Hall yeah the the grants that I was able to find are for refurbishing repairing and maintaining and not for moving okay all right so if we want to completely redo it and leave it where it is we can probably find funds for it um but as for moving there's nothing available that I was able to find all right so that that changes our bottom line numbers then correct okay so instead of at 350 we're at yeah 7:30 yeah or I'm sorry Chris I didn't understand something you said you said if we it could be used for refurbishing basically if we kept it where it is it's a privately owned structure we could use we could get a grant to refurbish it and keep it where it is I was explaining the difference between refurbishing and moving not spe not specific to this one okay correct um so if that's something we want to do um we're going to have to Pony up almost 3 $100,000 for that um one of the conversations that the mayor and I had was using that as a a fundraiser um or about $20,000 just rough back of the napkin kind of math we can have a contractor come in that will actually um carefully more carefully dismantle it and then we can auction off pieces of a historic log cabin and those funds um even though we can't save that cabin those funds could be used for additional projects whether it's repairing this or or whatever um whatever we end up doing to kind of preserve some of the other history here in biscane park so that's just something to keep in the back of your minds some other context on that too is at a call with the DAT County trust and the historic preservation group um the very short answer to that long conversation is they really can't help us uh they proposed certain things that we could do grass mostly it was Grassroots campaigns go around and ask people for money to try and raise enough money to save the thing um but there's they they recommended a grant that was available opening on April 1 but the funds will wouldn't be dispersed assuming we get it funds wouldn't be dispersed until the following year unfortunately under the timelines that we have that's not really going to work um so the the answer was well the another another answer that they gave was well we could designate it as historical but that would put the owner in a very difficult position he's been patient with us you know he's been willing to work with us that would kind of be like pulling the rug out from underneath him and he could get it torn down before we get that done anyway that would take time too so I don't think that that's they recommended well we could do a public Outreach we could go to Miami heral and we could say we got to save this thing it's the same thing that you know that might kind of vilify the owner in the public forum um but they said look we're willing to help if you want to do a Grassroots campaign to try and raise the money but that's under the timelines I just don't know if that that's realistic but you guys Mr I'm sorry could I interrupt the attorney just raised his hand yeah thank you and I just wanted to add um I had done some research about incentives that you might be able to give the developer and there really are no tax incent incentives that you could uh that would really either be beneficial to the developer or to the the village with regards to the cabin getting him to keep it on that property say oh Chris Jo me yes we did okay sorry thank you solar yep the final the final item on there is solar installing solar on all public buildings um this two is just a very best guess of about $33,000 a building um a lot of that is going to we'll actually learn a lot more about that when we complete the electrical project over at Public Works um one of the things they're Focus or I'm sorry over at parks and wreck one of the things they're focusing on there is install of what we would need to do to be able to install a generator in solar um so that'll help guide some of our costs for that we're assuming that they're probably would be a grant available um solar is another hot button thing especially in um storm prone areas or um Power I forget how they phrase it power insecure areas um where the infrastructure could go down with storms so even though we have budgeted $20,000 or I'm proposing $20,000 is a good chance we might be able to get that much in funding um we'd get the plan done in fiscal 24 and then take a look at um implementing in fiscal 25 and 26 and then um line what is now 75 is our contingency line um and we have a flat 20,000 a year there 5% of the 400,000 I would tell you most project contingency budgets are typically 10% so this is as I said in the assumptions modest but we feel you need something as a Christian okay now now is the time Comm I'm I'm looking at him right now commissioner Kennedy commissioner Kennedy now is the time for you and your colleagues to have a discussion on what your priorities are but I've kind of kept track as we've gone through it I've marked off what at least appears to me to be the ones that are necessary can you say that again marked off the ones that at least appear to me based on the discussion and based on what we've been told the ones that appear to be more necessary right now um I can just list them out in please okay so um rebuilding the Public Works garage it's condemned can you start at the top and go down I can try oh you didn't do it that okay I just go slowly so yeah sure um I well if I was to start at this the top the generators seem to be pretty necessary um the camera pole sounds like there was a lot of support for that you can go just a little slower sorry instead of the I thought you were gonna say Jonathan I thought you were gonna say needed as opposed to want I think most of these are need needs ones again just the ones I've listed here I think most of the ones that I've tried to keep track of seem to be needs I didn't think the pole cameras were a need I think it's a great idea but I don't think it's a need but I think the generator a need I think so are both generators in need really at the same level police versus Recreation um not to be flipping but I think it's I I would think that it is because one is they run the place while we're in emergency situation and the rec center is that's Community Access that's helping people Outreach for the community makes sense we're not going to come over here and have people get water and sandbags from the police department the generator for the police Chris does that cover also City Hall yes okay so the entire building that that generator keeps us keeps government functioning so it's already 40 right there between those two okay so I'm sorry start again so the you're saying the needs are emergency generator at starting at public police and Public Safety right okay I I not trying to but I might be jumping around a little bit this is just the order in which I was writing them down um I categorized the traffic study the $25,000 match is a yes another the 25 um again I I apologize I might be out of order here but uh the 30,000 for the roads I saw as a need and I'm I'm ,000 for the roads correct what you start Road repair like you can't even you're not going to be able to pay one road for $30,000 well I then I'll ask so is it is it just to clear to that's in our regular budget because you can't for $30,000 you can't pay one road no we can't pay a whole Road at $30,000 can either be used to do like I'd mentioned this stretch out here in front of the log cabin or um I think a better use one of the other things that Chris and I talked about is actually bringing somebody into to assess the condition of all your roads okay um to do some core drilling you know in different locations around the village to determine what you actually have and what your future needs are going to be uh that would help us to tighten up the numbers for the future and help us to better prioritize in what order Road should be uh done and I know I know I know you like to talk a lot about liability and so one of the things that I was I know that municipalities have a certain level of liability when it comes to sidewalks what about the fact that well first of all we don't have sidewalks people walk on the streets and our streets are with natural speed bumps like the the lady said earlier um so what is our liability factor in that oh have the same question see what happens um I I guess that's a question for Brad right that's a yeah absolutely did you catch that Brad I did is the question what is the liability that you don't have sidewalks no no so municipalities that have sidewalks have a certain level of liability um to maintain them obviously if people trip fall hurt themselves since we don't have sidewalks we have roads we have streets and our streets you know with all the roots and all the holes and where people walk where people walk is what what is there a liability Factor here for us uh as a as a village well potentially yes um since the roadways are being used for for pedestrians as well as Vehicles so I guess the answer is potentially but it's it's it's a little bit different because the sidewalks are specifically designated for pedestrians and with there's a known defect that that the municipality is a A Ware of that is reasonably likely to cause an injury that's where the liability comes so think there's there is a potential liability but it's it's different than if you were to have sidewalks yeah but was there for that purpose right no I get it I get it but because we don't have sidewalks right folks are forced to walk on our streets right or even on our medians right um so Brad can you just look into that a little bit um just Ju Just just out of curiosity and and see what kind of level of risk we're uh assuming with our streets and the conditions that they are I had I had a here on roads the way I was thinking about it is was dividing it in three section I mean this is a huge project um the first one has to do with all the drains that are going to be added so we have five five phases they're going to cover many corners of bisin Park those eventually will be destroyed and redone as part of what as part of the numbers we're seeing here yeah correct so this is already in a way budgeted for phase one and two but it's going to continue to happen so there is a long-term plan for this already and if I were to grab the in a Google map Mark those those will be done eventually via grants hopefully because that's what how we we've been able to do it so far we have a precedent I would assume that would continue to happen that's what we need to do we will continue to ask for the money the second bucket are the roads that in urgin repair and they're not part of the r of the drain project so there are streets that are literally eaten down to the grain I mean they have no Asal or Pooles there could be potentially also liability so those would be the second that would be my second bucket that same idea how can we go for money for those is there additional GR brands that we can ask uh if not what's the list literally list those key emergency streets that have never been addressed if we were never going to get a dollar how much would it cost right and so if the idea is to bring an engineer to tell us that then there will be a bucket of 20 streets and then we would assess the cost and this third bucket was roads that need maintenance that are not urgent and will not be part of the drain project like tree Roots damaging as fall at the rec center pothole specifically I mean this is not an urgency because you can still you know drive through them but there's certain areas that might need retouch is is something that we can take on with public works this is something that we cannot touch it has to be done by a vendor so those were the three the way I see it this is a massive project for us to fund clearly this is not budget we own and we have so we have to divide and conquer so sort of first bucket is going to come we already have it in the plan what's second and third that's my question so building a plan internally I'm not talking about hiring I'm talking about Public Works bringing a list of this are 10 streets they eaten literally there's just dirt Y and then those will be emergency and then the third bucket these are all the remaining ones that would be need to be addressed I don't know what you thing um I like the way you're you categorize things um and I want to add to that let's just pretend that tomorrow the county came to us and said we're going to convert you to septic to sewer and it's this many years blah blah blah Chris am I do I understand correctly that conversion from septic to sewer would also include storm drains so now we would have storm drains as part of this and and no no two totally different systems septic to sewer there's so there's there's a storm sewer system and there's a septic sewer system um the storm sewer system for oversimplifying is pipes that go underneath and over to the canal the septic system it's kept totally separate than that and that goes to the wastewater treatment plant the reason those two things are separate is if they were combined every time we had a major rainfall that would completely overwhelm the sanitary sewer we have sewage in the streets okay and and that happens now in some jurisdictions so our septic to sewer would require digging up the streets and repairing them the same way that our drain projects now incorporate Road repairs at the same time yes to larger degree are our current there are were just a couple stretches of roads that were done with the previous storm drain projects um it wasn't by any means it wasn't all of the storm drains that included some of the that street repair um septic to sewer is going to include much more it's going to be much more broad would it would we would get all new streets as part of that and that would include streets that we already spent money on to put our own FR storm drain our own drains in potentially yeah we'd be spending money on drain and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't move forward with our drains but I'm saying in essence we would have spent money on drains eventually that then would be coming and the roads would be redone as part of the septic to yeah I I think I think a good way of looking at that is we're not spending that the storm drain money on roads that may potentially be ripped up and re down we're spending that storm drain money on drainage would they and I know this is probably I'm going to guess this is a case by case basis if they came in and did septic to sewer are they going to have to rip up the drains that we put in would our drains be in their way of doing that would I I can't even begin to answer that so you don't commissioner you don't have an integrated storm water system what you're putting in my understanding are catch basins which are meant to be intermediate holding cells of sort so they shouldn't um but they're there my question is they're there I've seen I went up and looked at them in front of David's house there's this huge thing underneath the road and now if you know David's house was going to be connected to a sewer line that goes down the middle of the street is it going to impact the work not that it matters for today's conf I'm just curious does it mess up grain that was put in his street so if I can jump in to answer that that's very difficult to answer because a lot of it depends on how deep the front strains go and how deep they're going to bury the sewer lines how deep they bury the sewer lines depends on the length the run that they have to go and the elevation underground of the connectors and things like that um it could run right through the middle of them in which case yeah destroys it using David's house as an example you have two storm drains on either side uhuh midd and a giant pipe middle you have exactly what those manhole thing things I guess they're connected right yeah if they go down the middle of that road that's going to be there's a gigantic pipe that goes from corner to corner that's the way Mar it all depends at at what elevation one is versus where the other one's going to go yeah it just kind of go under or above it depending it' be nice to my point is it' be nice to know know it be nice to know it's gonna happen if something Ser Happ for 30 years I'd love to yeah destroyed it that would be that would be nice to know right to to that point I can say generally speaking if this they're going to incorporate anything like that into the um septic to sewer project so if the lines that they need to if they have to do any work that's going to destroy an existing FR Trin system they will build in repairing that to the project okay so you on this point specifically you're suggesting adding for 2024 $30,000 correct started yep um so for me I wouldn't necessarily want to move forward with the engineering of everything because I think that's what you were suggesting either we moved forward with an engineer that addresses which ones need to be or you just start fixing the trees and and the little things right so I'm more inclined to the second without really understanding the details of this but I'm saying I rather start identifying and the different buckets that I mentioned so to see how much would it cost 30 ,000 not necessarily seems a lot of money for roads which is amazing but it might be that the least the the third bucket I mentioned which is the least urgent or the easier to fix it's um 150 I don't know and and commissioner the assessment that we briefly discussed earlier would probably eat up to 30 before you're able to do any repair but then set you up to spend the 200 or 400 or 600 in subsequent years and let me ask you so so that would also open the if we were to assign a vendor to the point you made earlier about an engineer would give you ideas and plans that then you can capitalize on to go get rants funding correct yes okay now Chris might come back to you and say hey I've tested this out in the market and we really need 50,000 for it yeah you know you might need to go back revisit and rep prioritize something to make that happen yeah you know that you need to do it do do what specifically you're referring to your assessment the assessment correct so it might cost more than 30,000 you're saying it's hard to say that was an educated guess but we don't know for sure until we actually test the market yeah okay I mean you're a small enough jurisdiction that 30 actually should cover it but you know we we can't guarantee that right now so this was number one priority for the community in General right yes this came out like the number one concern everybody talks about we want to see roads fixed so that's why I'm saying 30,000 doesn't seem a lot of money now whether it's to pay for an engineer you know that addresses the entire Village doesn't seem to be that bad if we can use it for Grants later on correct and and what we're doing commissioner just to to make it clear is that we're we're setting it up for an assessment to set you up for subsequent years where 50% of your CIP funding in this plan is allocated to Road repair yeah so that's a significant investment and a significant commitment that matches the community's number one priority I'd be interested to see if where we where we find some additional monies within this budget um if based on prioritization so maybe it's something that we just talk about a minute and kind of continue to go down to see what we've what we see or what we deem is is more necessary right now and then come back to it because I would be interested to see which of these things maybe don't make that that list and kind of free up those those funds so just quickly to to look back I think we've talked about the Public Works garage uh the generators the traffic study and I think that's kind of where we stalled out that sound about right how much was the garage 120 I'm sorry where do we get that 120,000 did you get that 120,000 estimate from wh for which project the garage the butler building project yeah that's that's an estimated cost for the deconstruction that's based on on the current market conditions okay but I mean you haven't actually gotten a price what is what is it that we're trying to build there is it is it is it a concrete thing is it is it a it's it's most likely going to end up being like a uh I think the size that we had was 30 by 80 um most likely metal structure so we're going to we have to rip up the existing concrete pad put down new concrete demolish the old garage of course but in this full garage we're going to have to run electrical we're going to have to put an HVAC um and then the doors we may look at doing something like a a work area in there as well to maintain um the best frame of reference I have is pole shed on the farm I know that probably doesn't mean much down here what was it a what the pole shed on the farm I don't even know what that is that's yeah you might have seen commercials it's a pre-fabricated structure right we're not really building anything you've seen commercials for these on TV if you say so but commissioner Gonzalez I do have some breaking news the manate signs are up oh the manate signs oh ma you did something positive that's great that's awesome there you go and a pick hey I have a a question for you Chris you probably said this and I I missed it somehow the under parks and wreck parks and recre electric design project that is for what electric design project was something the previous commission perhaps you guys decided on that is analyzing the current electrical structure at parks and W with the idea of putting in solar and or generator it was the preparation for us to go solar we need to know what we have exactly yeah we approved that which l are you in Mech uh 36 parks and wreck I believe it's the first yellow line first yellow one so what are we doing we running down here and each telling us giving our opinion on stuff is that yeah I think we might as well I think we we've kind of gone we there's I think we've covered all the ones up to that point so far so if leaving any out other than go over the the the needs and then that's I think part of what we're doing going down the list we're still going down the list identify those things let me suggest an alternative that might be a little shorter okay okay rather than everybody going through each item and saying what they think it might be um more time effective if individuals just identified items that they didn't support or didn't want in the 24 budget okay so the assumption is everything else I'm I'm supportive enough to leave it in to varying degrees but leave it and here's what I have concerned about and I want to reprioritize so that way you don't have to go through each thing and but that doesn't give us the ability to pull something up that wasn't put on the list already no no you can at that you absolutely can um so that that's part and parcel of it can we jump briefly just to the the the totals and the the bottom and just make sure that we walk through that and understand that properly yeah because the totals Chang now that we took out the moving of the Log Cabin right okay well just just then then high level like I mean we have um conting contingency we have total Project funding needed 3 million possible grant funding that's the ones highlighted in blue right obviously uh enumerated other funding that um on the prior version the 1.05 million what what is what's what's adding up to that to that 1.05 that is fiscal 23 allocated um that is the things listed in the existing budget so pickle ball for example was listed as $9,000 um so it includes those two things is it it's so it's the yellow no it's not the yellow items some of the some of the items are yellow some are not so this that number specifically includes the resident communication systems update so the 1058 is prior years funding or things that we are already have funding for that's how you're backing into the 1.03 4 correct okay that makes sense I couldn't understand the flow of that got 1.34 is is the 3.6 minus 912 minus the the 1.58 you get to the proposed CIP funding of 677 with a we have a gap of 358 yep and that's actually I can drop that by 280 if the commission decides that moving the cabin isn't an option yeah I don't think so 280 unfortunately moving the it's actually more oh right right it is more it is that's sounded low gets us almost 80% towards closing the Gap okay we're now to 70,000 was what we had to come up with for everything that's already listed that we just talked about now um Chris I just can we clarify um that includes Pro uh storm drainage Phase 2 and what what's our grand assumption on that because I think that's part of the that 7 yeah that's okay the best guess that I have is either 400,000 or 800,000 that that's going to be covered yep that's and I have I have absolutely no way of even guessing which direction that's going to go um they could come back and it could be vetoed I'm just pointing that out because that's really driving the rest of the deficit um it's line 53 roadway drainage improvements phase two 951 right that's that's what we call a BFN corporate planning I'll let you guys figure out what that b big something number okay does that also include we had there was a duplicate entry here for log cap and roof and walkway it was $335,000 under admin and also 77 under parks and wck yeah that's already pulled out on Mone already pulled out on this total okay so the what I would what I would recommend and you know correct me if I'm wrong here um I think it would be safe to assume we'll get something in Appropriations um I would feel comfortable saying that that something is probably going to cover the $70,000 that were currently underfunded um once that appropriation comes in or once we find out what that's going to look like we can absolutely revisit this it's going to take some time to start kicking off some of these engineering projects um getting quotes together or proposals together depending on what purchasing requires um so we have a little bit of time on this yet um I'd recommend just making that assumption that that's going to be covered then if we assume that that's going to be covered then outside of what we've already pulled we fit within the CIP budget that's being that's presented to us correct but it doesn't mean we need to leave all the money allocated where it is right of course of course okay so we still going to do the exercise of what we like what we don't we need to it's it's more of um what you don't like and and would like to either remove or rior prioritize and what you'd like to add to that point let me just say that if there is something that you quote don't like unquote you can bump that to Future fiscals so it's either don't like or don't like right [Music] now or don't like forever probably more likely so um how would you like to start I'm just going to open the floor and let anyone pick an item and say whether or not we we want to discuss it we want to support it couple of quick level set questions again when is this being voted on consens I know I know but what what is the target date to have a vote to have this finalized there's nothing in the charter I don't believe Brad correct me if I'm wrong there's nothing in the charter requiring this otherwise we would have already had it um what's that no you're correct um from my perspective the sooner we have this adopted the sooner that we can use the capap to start applying for grant funding um I would say if we can get it's it's going to depend entirely on what happens over the course of the next two hours it's entirely possible that we could have this in front of you in March um more likely probably April and what you're going to have in front of us is not for a vote you're going to put in front of us this is what you guys this is what based on what I heard you guys say this is what CIP looks like now Brad what does a formal adoption process for a CIP look like down here all right can unmute myself for a second well at some point you're going to have to vote with with regards to the approval of of the projects themselves but as far as the CIP you're just going to it's just going to go before you and you will you can you just it's going to be similar to what we're doing now but then each project Chris will bring to us for approval yes yeah okay yeah just a if I um once you decide yes this is what we're going to do um I don't come before you to say okay is it is it okay if I do pickle ball now I come to you and say this was in the CIP here's what we're looking at what do you want to do now but first you're going to bring this back to us in a cleaned up form and say guys did is this is this what you wanted and we're going to say yes that was not exactly right we'll adjust it whatever and then you start bringing projects to us because we already approved it we we approved you to move forward with it you bring it back to us to sign off on stuff yep as we get as we get quotes or proposals So currently everything you have on here um that you have a placeholder or is is in theory budget the money's there to cover all of these expenses right correct asterisk yeah andand funding of course of course I'm sorry but which one exactly is the aster attached to the big one the big one the BFN okay yep um well actually I should it's a little bit more it's that it is the solar it is the uh median SES green spaces uh yeah that's it oh I'm sorry in addition the uh L cabin roof and Ada Parkway or walkway loog cabin roof and walkway as well so that for Grant this year you're saying this fiscal correct so I was my next question on that because we're betting this is going to happen on this fiscal year the the cycles for Grants when would we apply and by when would we know each Grant is different there isn't a set cycle um depending on the source it could be matching our fiscal year so it might not open again until October um most of the grants that I'm seeing from the feds and from the state are they have set periods it's not necessarily a fiscal year so we could apply for something in July we could apply for something in November for me I say keep everything as is and then uh as things come up we vote and we say yay or we say nay and that's it that's that's how I would do it you're so easy are you waiting for Jonathan no I'm more more or less just gonna open to see how we to address I can run down real quick do you want I'm sorry John were you gonna start Sorry's goingon to be quick which is that I I would like to have a little bit more time actually look at this and pro I mean it's day it's N9 o'cl almost N o' I guess high level 35,000 feet the thing that that I want to be looking out for is um if there's anything more that we can do you know contingent upon the answers that we to the request that we put out to the to the Chief and his team anything that we can do in the in the short term to try and help mitigate some the issues that we're dealing with Public Safety speeding and traffic I mean I know we have things that longterm do the study Grant funds coming things like that I mean I know there's some money here but to your point you know if we're approving things as is and they can shift some stuff around I would maybe be in favor of Shifting some things more towards that even if they are short-term measures I know not always great things to do with a capital plan to do operating expenses out of a capital plan but I mean clear clearly everyone's very concerned about that right now so that I'm just going to make sure I keep an eye on that if that's a fa point the sorry the one thing I I do want to say if it is under $110,000 so looking at the this list I think only the License Plate Reader pole cameras possibly it um as soon as as soon as you all agree to this I can move on anything $10,000 or less without coming to you to say is it okay to spend this money just something to keep in mind the only two right that in the in what Ma just mentioned the uh Center Design Center which kind of already decided that we're we want a little more specific detail before we appr that really if we were to go forward with this as it's it's been presented then that would kind of give you authority to go ahead with that yep those two items all right commissioner were you done okay um I know there's a few items on here some of the bigger ticket ones that I could see being moved um not necessarily cancelled so to speak if that's the right word um but moved you know moved a year because um like the commissioner mentioned I I would like to see a little bit more investment with traffic I would like to see a little bit more invest roads is an important one I know that it's tough um because 30,000 is not going to get us much um is another 990,000 going to get us much more that's hard to say but $90,000 you know if we were to say let's not saying that this is what we should do but by way of example if we were to say let's take pickle ball and move it to 25 instead of 24 take that 90 and put it towards roads what does that get us I mean if think gets us somewhere where we're not just saying let's just plan for another year not to say it's a bad idea because it sounds like it's helpful but it would be helpful to see some improvement now so if I if I may take the Liberty putting on my former commissioner hat one thing that I've done in the past is exactly what you've said um there are certain things that we can do now to take action so we're doing something um while also taking the long-term planning approach so for example um I'm not picking on pickle ball that's what you just mentioned absolutely let's take the $330,000 and fix this road and then allocate that $90,000 or if we take it the I don't know something out of the parks and wreck or what have you and to start that planning process we can do both those things at the same time to try to accomplish both those goals next yeah please so I'm going to run down the list and make a couple of comments about things and and bring some other things up uh but first I want want to say a couple of things October November December January February we're almost five months through a 12-month fiscal year there's seven months remaining not getting done you know so we need to be honest about that we're fi we I'm looking at all of us not you we're five months late on this this is why doesn't get get done pardon my French sorry I offend anybody we're 5 months late on this we're talking about fiscal 24 priorities in the middle of February we need to do better at this every year if we're here another year so this exercise is a bit of an exercise in futility because of the timing of it I really want us to look at some private funding and I want I would love you guys to agree with me to take something from here and come up with a plan to fund it privately and try it maybe we'll fail maybe we'll fail maybe we'll succeed but we have a foundation that has some really bright hardworking people on it they do nice things I'd love to give them a project and say the rfps are in from pickle ball and it's only $42,000 we need $42,000 and we want to get it done by the end of fiscal 25 I'm the anti-p pickle ball people I just pick that one off the list because it's easy um I really want us to do that and we could take something out of here pluck it out go for it and see how we do with that because if we are if we could become good at that that's something we could do every year so I would like us to do that and I'd like pickle ball to be maybe be discussed along those lines um okay emergency generator absolutely um under police this traffic police thing that we talked about Chris at the last meeeting we're going to talk about again I know it's not going to be part of this but I really want that to I'm really in I don't want it because I don't know anything about it yet but I really am hoping that could be something and if this somehow got impacted by that like that was possible and we needed to use this money to me that would leap to the top of the list because of something we could try and we could agree we'll give it a six-month shot a one-year shot we'll see what it does because the police brought that to us as a solution that wasn't none that wasn't any of us we don't know what the hell we're talking about just came up with this grand plan about the traffic officer yeah okay the police came to that we don't have the cost for it yet yeah so I see that as a huge priority and I'm going to include it in this conversation because if that's a feas feasible thing to what John saying I think that should impact some of the things in here disagree okay uh this Rec Center Improvement thing I don't even know what it is I'm so I'm confused about it and and I can't support that and guys this is what worries me that's an $8,000 item that falls under the $110,000 threshold he could go Hy someone could do that tomorrow I'm not suggesting Chris is up to anything nefarious I'm just saying that things that fall under that $10,000 threshold John in case you aren't aware he can just go do it everything else comes to us for approval right that I don't even know what that project is really all about I I need to know a whole lot more about that so for me that's a that's a hard no for now until I know more about it um okay the water stations at public buildings this is something that I brought and um we live in South Florida where it's like ridiculously hot a lot lot of the year and we have people out on the streets out and about and a lot of them end up at the rec center doing a lap and then going on their way art I see you doing it too right that to me is an amenity that I think would really improve things over at the rec center I would like to hear some of you comment back when I'm done about that because the idea of having maybe just starting with one or two one at each end outside water stations where people can fill up water bottles get a drink and a thing at the bottom for to get a drink as well this is South Florida and we're encouraging people to go out and about and walk and use our streets and our rec center and we're talking about all these other things we need to be providing water for people I would like to see that one brought back to life uh the emergency generator absolutely the solar prep stuff at the rec center absolutely The Log Cabin stuff here my God it's so late uh the Ed Burke master plan um just to remind you guys we already spent a whole bunch of money on that so that one we got to keep moving forward with which one say again uh the edbg master plan the parking and everything and the parking here's got to get done this has got to get done and we also spent money on that um the Public Works building yeah I wish it didn't cost $120,000 I wish there were ways to get that down but it sounds like Chris already looked into that okay so to traffic mitigation strategies we have no money here because we're waiting for this traffic study to get done to help us make better choices fully support that I've been saying that from day one we can't operate here based on what we think what the hell do we5 know right about traffic mitigation experts tell you that stuff and it starts with a study that's here and I'm very extremely happy about that but to John's point I think there are some things we might be able to do in the meantime I would like to see some money in here or the sorry Janie don't even think about speeding signs that campaign brought back to life here and have those signs all around the village Chris is bringing that to us at the March meeting and we'll see a hard cost on that but it didn't sound like it was going to be a lot anyway uh Judy fluke brought up a really good point she lives on the street where that horrific accident was and there's no speed limit sign on that street yeah I know exactly so um uh I was not aware of that and I think maybe we need to find out are there other streets around here that don't have speed limit signs and and things aren't posted properly I think we need to get that done because it's you know we got to have speed limit signs up for for going to S so I would like to see signs brought back in here as a conversation in this because I think that's an immediate thing we can do and and just guys we need to start showing them something on that topic so I think signs are a good first step I think this traffic enforcement detail or whatever we're calling it is another good first step until we get the study done and upgrading to policing and other things that are not part of a budget so so Jonathan if you're keeping tabs here it's signs I would like to see us discuss signs and I don't mean to interrupt your your flow process here but um if I could just ask very quickly Mr manager um within within this list here do we have kind of a general line item for traffic mitigation things that where signage might fall under or something that you brought up at at our regular commission meeting was um uh the blue and white flashing radar signs you know we we were talking about getting a quote to maybe put more of those in fix or move some of them something for that that seems like it would fall within CIP so is there a line item here where we might move some funds around where we say well we're not crazy about the uh the $8,000 that it costs to do the the design for the rec center we want to reallocate that for signage and for the blue and white flashing where would that fall under we could what we could do with that is in the traffic mitigation strategies line 41 yeah um there's nothing there $110,000 for this fiscal or whatever you think is a is a fair amount I I don't even have a rough guess on on what those signs would be at this point but we could put it in there but I think I think having having some more something more there would be helpful as we identify them we know that the traffic stud is going to open open the doors to better and larger things but there are certain things that we talked about at the last meeting we spent a lot of time talking about it there are certain things that could fall within that line item that I think we should be able to attack yeah absolutely so I think we should drop money there in that empty cell Jonathan and I think it should be $100,000 because that shows that we have intent to get some real stuff done and we can go back in here Chris can go back and dial back in some other things and maybe the dog park doesn't have to be so elaborate we'll have more information about the RFP very soon on the pickle ball but I'd be very happy to see under traffic M mitigation strategies $100,000 and know that it could be signs at the very least and those flashing things Chris I keep forgetting what you call them you know things on that fall under that gen we've got to start taking steps here on this and the try and the study is going to lead us to much bigger Longer term Solutions but we've got to do something yeah there are things just just let point of clarification then I have one go ahead um yeah we can certainly put $100,000 in there for the traffic signs but then it's up to you to tell me what isn't we're not going to it has to be moved around exactly I get right course I think the two easy places to do it are for me my turn to give my list are dog park and pickle ball as much as I want dog park for certain and I want to know more about pickle ball it's easy to say yeah and it might end up being one of those and not the other you know but money needs to end up in traffic mitigation and right now we have a big fat zero there so I'm going to move on you heard my piece on that and you guys are going to say yours and then we'll go back and we'll change stuff um like we in one big dog park live without it for another year potentially yeah I've been here 20 years I've always thought it was a nice thing to have but and for 20 years people have been talking about it it would be nice but it sure would be nice to say we got it done we got something done and we can get lots of different things done we can pick and choose right and maybe Chris W play with some numbers and he'll say you know uh guys why don't you try to find private money for one of these things and why don't you make it the dog park because Lord knows between and dog groomers and d d d we should be able to raise some money okay moving again just to clarify that you tell me what you want to find private funds for I'm I'm not the best person to decide okay what to reach out to the community for I'm let me get mine done you could do yours and then we're going to Hash all this out okay um the uh um I think that's it I think that's it all right so have some other sorry just let me just look at something really quickly commissioner I wanted to point out to you one thing on line uh looks like 31 give me a name give me a department and a name line 31 parks and wreck water stations y so we do have the water stations in 25 I I didn't know to4 so you want to move it forward to 24 that could be given the dollar amount that might be a really good Target for your private fundraising oh there you go you know the way you're thinking there it's that's an achievable number I think how much can we put you down for You' be surprised we'll talk later all right if I I can just ask you one question that $100,000 you want to that line what do you $100,000 no we're talking about traffic signs the traffic mitigate traffic what what jump around a l what yeah what exactly are you seeing uh that will cover that $100,000 what that it would pay that it be use for yeah uh the don't even think about speeding signs the any other signs that were missing around the village or that that uh we think should be added slow down at curves um all kinds of 100 no and and his flashing things I have no idea how much those cost the the moving so there's a lot of information that we're still missing exactly right I'm just saying that but look a lot of these numbers are based on so I'm just we we're just missing a ton of information we're all the all those costs we're missing the cost of the police the police enforcement we're missing the cost of what pickle ball dog park College too much and we we're not even going to consider it so there's just still a lot of missing information here but we have to we have to decide on have to do anything like that right this second well let let me let me gentlemen let me I want to show you you a number which will illuminate this conversation a little line under under Public Safety line 21 we have restrict select Street access okay so we didn't really talk about lines 20 and 21 and let me clarify this so the the original concept that maybe one or two people had talked about was shutting off access to all the streets okay what um and and that's the big ticket number in line 20 line 21 what Chris and I talked about as an alternative is that rather than shutting off access you can make it very uncomfortable or difficult to to drive through by creating one-way streets but no hold on hold on before we but not not taking a not taking like two streets and making them oneway pairs like two blocks this way and then the next two blocks are this way so if if if I live in the neighborhood I know that you know how to get out but you know how to get in and out but somebody who wants to pass through the community it's going to be gushed on hard to do it dep depending on what you do is that the kind of thing that the traffic study would would yes bring about as a recommendation yes yes it would part of my concern is that we're going to pay for a traffic study to tell us what we we already know where the freaking problems are I'm not I'm not advocating this right now as well I was giving you background on something because there's a dollar figure there and the dollar figure to your question is that we actually did a little homework and came up with uh sign installation $350 a sign okay and so that 35,000 covers a 100 signs and we didn't think you'd ever want to put in that many to begin with because now you're starting to talk about visual pollution I wanted to give you some context to your conversation here about the other reason I thank you the other reason why the hund because there's so many unknown things but it also makes a statement that we have intent here to get something done and we can dial back from other places to do it and and his flashing things I want to learn more about too we don't have prices on that and there could be other things that we think of that could be done in the meantime I want us to have the ability to do stuff when other ideas come up for tempor for shortterm traffic mitigation Solutions while we wait for the study is the study's going to happen when Chris yes and we're we're it's we're hoping the next 18 months yeah it's it's completely up to the to the Grand tors yeah so it's not going to happen until fiscal 25 and then when then we it's and we don't wiggle our nose and everything changes the next day then it's a yearslong process to get things done we need to get some things done and we need money in there to do it it so at any rate I'm done those are my comments all right um actually I'll point out a couple things after you're old okay so I'll start with mine so I'm going to go from the top down as well emergency generator at least 20,000 yes um the camera yes can commissioner yes let's focus on your nose so if you like something we're we're basically no what I'm saying no to yes okay so I would like to leave the $90,000 that currently stay for the pick AO right um contingent of the implementation plan for traffic so that's a little bit of everything I've heard uh my fellow Commissioners uh talk about it's about additional police needed it might be the signage that we talked about I'm not pro the sign so don't not even think about speeding that's me but if there's speeding sign that were missing if there's stop flashing signs that were missing um I'm happy to include those within the context that now we have an estimate on what those pickes might be around $90,000 so I'm saying no potentially I'm not saying no to pick a at all but if prioritizing is the game of we're talking about today I would have to assume that's where the money would come from um for the rest everything is a yes um including the $8,000 that you have for recreation which is also uh would ask uh Chris to have that sort of clearance in terms of what's being done from the foundation and what could it's actually being requested because it's not very clear um and that's it I think the rest I'm on board let me just make sure I'm not missing anything else all the other generator oh um traffic mitigation same thing so I had a filled it up but that would go with the 90,000 I just spoke about and then when it comes to the roads um it's a yes as well to start somewhere in the plan and design with what we can get done this year or as soon as possible y mayor were you done with your list I've kind of been all over the place so I apologize I'm not trying to be um I I I generally tend to agree that um we need more money for the traffic mitigation efforts and I I think if we just move remember pickle ball was not just pickle ball we we categorized pickle ball the money there to also be recreational upgrades um so it's a broad category but I you know I would I would agree that I think just moving it you know moving it to fiscal 25 and using that money for traffic I think it's important um and quite honestly you know the 63 for the dog park again I don't want to see that removed I'd like to see it moved to the next fiscal and I'd like to see that 63 put down for roads and to keep in mind we're only talking about another six months at this point right yeah yeah like we're talk we're not pushing it off a year I I think more of the I just think there needs to be some more money and more investment in traffic and roads I think those are two very big issues I think they can come from those two projects just by moving them to a six-month down the road type of uh type of arrangement so has something to share if I may just real quick I just want to correct something I said earlier um so just doing a little bit of research so the your your CIP will ultimately be approved by resolution yeah okay so we would have come back to a meeting and you would approve the CIP through by resolu I was Imagine by that time like you were saying it's more likely to be April it's very likely that we will have some more information on several of these things where we'll get our PS we'll get quotes coming in so we'll have some more granular data correct guide our our to and to that point Jonathan Chris comes back to us in March he's going to have these two traffic things that we asked for he might have information about pickle ball because we don't even know if we got any we don't even know if we got any uh responses and that closes between now in the March meeting he may be reporting back to us things that we my question to you Chris or Brad is could we at the March meeting give you more input that would allow you to tweak it some more before you bring it back to us in April the if you came back to us in March and said here are the prices for these things and we didn't get any rfps for pickle ball or it's $150,000 and we say okay then just I mean do we may not have to make that exact call here tonight he can move forward and work on this and between now and then we'll get better information right yeah regardless of what happens even if we get three perfect quotes or three perfect bids or pickle ball you can say nope Alan you did you also you mentioned something about uh $35,000 for 350 signs or something like that no that's for 100 signs I'm sorry for 100 sorry for 100 sign and that's that's in here as well already right not for this fiscal year not for this year saying that oh I thought use that as an example of how much signs cost we actually have that in in 26 and 27 as an alternative after the traffic study is done so listen guys for me I'm not ready to make any major decisions based on the fact that we are still simply missing a lot of information um listen I would be all 100% in for removing the whole pickle ball which by the way came from residence it wasn't my idea but anyway regardless um if I knew what the cost was for uh adding a police officer or you know if it's $300,000 or 200 I don't know what those costs are so I I I'm not ready so there when I have the the information that's currently missing I'll be more than willing to uh engage and and and and suggest different things but right now for me I'm not ready to make any any any big changes in in what's currently proposed all right so um let me tell you that the there's only a few things really um notwithstanding everything that you all talked about there's really only a few things that I see we might want to get some clarification on now and I want to make clarifying statement you you all seem pretty keen on the idea of at least one traffic officer so that would be a recurring expense added to your operating budget and the 400,000 a year that we're talking about would have to be reduced unless there was another way you came up with those monies okay for at least for planning purposes of this plan and I'm not saying that to throw water on it I'm just letting you know that if that's a direction you're going in and it seems like you're strongly going that direction that's going to dramatically change these numbers we're going to have to meet with the chief hear what he has to say come up with a number and then adjust this year and subsequent years appropriately and to that point I think that's why we might have to have a candid conversation to make sure that we're doing the very best that we can with what we already have in terms of our utilization of the current force and I'm just speaking from what I see I'm a and and you know what commissioner I I'm going to share with you an anecdote when I got elected mayor um so many moons ago um this was an issue for my community and I went to the Chief and I said what do we need to do and he said oh well we got to hire X number officers and I said no I said I need need your guys to get out there and back then it was guys um but I hired women um um and we were able to double the actually almost triple excuse me the amount of traffic tickets that the force was riding with the existing staff that we had um so okay what was the secret sauce I think we'd love no the secret sauce was just fire that's a secret prioritizing what they were doing making sure that were you know it's not near and dear to my heart like the gentleman who was here at the commission but I mean look they're they stick out like sore thumbs and they are not you know when I was a when I was a bad driver in my teens in 20s uh I learned from consequence I learned from getting tickets and having my insurance go up that's what teaches people we learn you know when you're that's what that's what works and you know I don't I don't your point if the tickets could be doubled or tripled I think just by how we do things they do stick out like sore of thumbs they're not hiding behind bushes they don't seem to be doing a lot of I I could speculate why we could all speculate why maybe they don't they're want to confront Speeders who I'm sure there's a correlation between people who speed and maybe engaging other criminal activities I'm sure there's people who would rather shoot a police officer and kill him on the spot rather than take a chance of having to be arrested for you know moving and so so I understand but so to your point I think maybe there are some other things we can do than higher Bo and so and so that ties into the whole sign situation right so if we put signs in every corner in every block and police officers aren't enforcing then you've just wasted uh your breath and your signs and all your and whatever so it goes back to enforcement you know I don't like the signs I don't I don't I don't I think they're not inviting and or welcoming or anything but the amount of disrespect There Is people driving in this in the city I'm okay if they if they're if we we offend them I'm I'm I'm okay with that the issue is that we're offending people that are cutting through our village that has to that has to tie in with enforcement because if not age that's why I'm that's why I said both yeah so we have to talk about both things right that's right can I can I ask a question I got a bit um confused with the comment you made so are you saying major when you said majority of you seem to be heading towards the idea of hiring more uh what exactly give you that note like what exactly where we adding specifically money to hire more police no I'm I'm basing it on the comments that I heard your colleagues make we're we're waiting for information no one has said no one is supporting that except in theory only okay that was going to be my point I mean the the sheie came with an amazing presentation it was very successful and addressing a lot of the concerns that needs to be materialized in a budget proposal what the impact is what the solutions could could be and a lot of that we already spoke about um so I just wanted to clear fact is at the end we don't know what it might look like um and it's a little bit of everything I think we talked about it's like a 360 sort of thing we got to look into all right I just wanted to make sure I I wasn't saying yes to something that had to do with hiring it's just yet the original intent of making the point that I did is that officers are not cheap yeah and and one officer with Benefits is going to run you of course it's it's a lot of money $110,000 okay and so and and if the if right that's one officer and I don't know how many the chief is suggesting correct so I just wanted you to be mindful so sorry commissioner I have to jump on my soap boox real quick here every time I hear this we cannot go to a point where we're gauging success on the number of tickets written um just blanket statement um the success is measured by other things such as reduction and speeding or or things along those lines um Counting tickets as what up as K park into a lot of trouble so just unlock my Soap Box same way you don't measure code success by how many violations they write yeah it's by how good the village looks this is information that is still for and also quotas for tickets are violation state law so we have a half an hour left um what are the next steps how do we well we we've gotten a a lot of comments from you we're on tape so we're going to listen to them again I've taken notes as well um what what I see what what I'm hearing is General support from most of what we have push back pick a ball um not get rid of it but push it back uh the same with the dog park push it back not get rid of it and well I'm I'm up for bidding it's currently it's allocated for fiscal year 2024 yeah right so I'm saying push it back if it gets pushed back to 25 or whatever and it's it just depends on on on some variables that we're just missing information exactly okay so I would we agreed to push any I I didn't feel like we agreed to push anything back we're waiting for more information like we have an RFP coming in for pickle ball that could tell us a lot that would cancel it all together or push it back or let it move forward we don't know because we don't know and we have prices on things we're waiting for so I didn't hear us agree to push anything back no I didn't say you agreed I said this is what I'm hearing and what I didn't hear that either and what I heard also heard from him what I heard also is that take those monies and reallocate them to signage for traffic signage reallocate for Road repair those are the two things that kind of rose to the top in the discussion that seemed to be more pressing priorities for this year than those other two higher ticket items I thought that what do we have some kind of a consensus on this money being spent at the rec center for the design was $8,000 I said yes for that as long as I know where it's going we don't again we don't know the information so I feel like a whole lot of things we need to fill in a whole bunch of gaps and then we could do this again maybe can we do this at a commission meeting oh we're going to have to because we we have to pass by solution could it be on the agenda well it' be easier the next time because then if he has things that he drops in it could be much faster that because there's less discussion we already kind of know where we stand on stuff I think so I don't think it's realistic that we'll we'll get through this in a listen we've been here almost four hours meing through everything let let me add just this because this relates directly to what you're trying to accomplish and avoid when is the special runoff election and I I'm asking because I think the last thing you guys want is to get near a point of agreement near a point of being able to move on and then I leave someone else comes in and they again they and they play their card and say all right I don't know anything about this let's start from scratch and there's going to be a collective o all in favor right so when is the special election again April 9th does that mean that we have a March that I will be here for April you'll be here for the April meeting April okay so it's not it has for us to be able to vote on this it has to be March it could be April just a little bit of breathing April 9th you're not here anymore April 10th you're not here anymore depending on when it get certified and all of that but when is that April commission meeting it's a Tuesday April 9th so a lot of this is already on that's why a lot of is already going and some of this pending can come next month and that's where I wanted as a next step I wanted to ask Chris how do you see feasible Chris maybe for next month having some of the things kind of cleared up for me is the $8,000 for the rec center for example um sort of estimate dates for the bidding of the dogport I mean these are included on this fiscal right oh I'm sorry yeah they they are included and to answer your question I'm gonna ask a question and that's what are my priorities because I can't get it's not possible to get the level of detail on all of these items My Hope walking out of this was the priority so if you're telling me that a dog park is a high priority that's stuff I can go out and get the information for um if you're telling me that the rec center is a priority I can go out and get quotes for the designers to come out for example so so what I'm hearing yeah and please correct me if I'm wrong is that the rec center the dog park and the pickle ball thing are all items of interest but are questionable because they're lacking information most of everything else that's on there seems acceptable although I'm hearing they they'd like to have a little more certainty on the Public Works building if we can nail that down a little more um but the focus should be on those three items to get the commission additional information and getting money and traffic mitigation so that was going to be my next question um Mac and and maybe what we do is because we had an overage before we came in here today and we we got under or within Striking Distance of the budget of of the number do we just earmark it at 100 and then come back when we have some more detail that's what I was proposing earlier in there for now but but what I I heard that and then that's why I gave you the sign information because I also heard commissioner Gonzalez say hey 100,000 seems like a lot are we really gonna have something to spend that on and 100 signs would cost you 35,000 not 100,000 are you really even going to put up 100 signs so and that's the point I'm making ising kind of we'll kind of maybe we'll come back to to you with 50 or 60 sign number and and plug that in along with everything else to address that yeah because we got a different I know it was a total guesstimate but we came up with this number of $20,000 for the signs at the last meeting we asked Chris to come back and and for the DK it wasn't just signs we also talked about the flashing the rad radar it was about the the number that we threw out there was 20,000 just for those other that don't think about speeding signs it wasn't didn't include the flashing stuff what I'm saying is we don't know the cost of that exactly that's what I'm saying I'm saying is he's gave us one round number I'm saying IDE we had heard a different round number before yeah yeah okay $400 per sign roughly exactly that's what it was in 20 whether it says 25 miles per hour whether it says don't think about speeding whether it says parking it's roughly $400 a sign right so $400 a sign and you were saying how much 350 oh okay and that's including the concrete you know oh I see that number was split across two years that's why it was 16 and 17 I get it okay I got it that's why the math was wrong your question was what do I start with exactly um and I think this is where you know there's certain things are already ongoing so some of this you already have and the all the yellow portion disappears you you're working on it um it's the other stuff that has not been started so emergencies are um generat generators I mean the generator has not been an emergency until now I'm saying for him next month he literally is saying what's my priority for next month I think traffic we all agreed is where we need more clarification about whether it's 100 150 to be honest we don't know so it's what's the process to get a proposal from police department in terms of what's the impact financially for for all the suggestions that we discussed last time and having that in hand then we are able to say well pick aable already came in it was 70 um what do we do and and I think that's number one priority I don't know if you guys agree to have that in written um in writing and then uh and to me it's the public where uh the the building I mean you have a condemn building currently has U temporary storage but that person needs to get started so same thing I think there is a bid in process to get started on before the season of the hurricane season gets here before all the storms gets here it's combined with the generat so I think it's the same package uh than that the rest is um thir tier I don't know if you guys agreed I mean it's a do Park the rec center those are other than the planning things he's got already great things to have that the community has spoken about but those are like urgent for the next month or so all right so what I'm hearing then and make sure my notes are correct we need more information on the dog park we have more information coming on pickle ball you want more information on the rec center that's the PM un clear on do you need the information on how much it's going to cost to have a consultant come in or do you want me to have a consultant come in and tell us no they they first want information on what specifically is being proposed what is needed uh it was was there a lick through the walls with their kitchen not working that's why it's needed and then the comparison with what the foundation is doing I think that's a list to put next to each other and then add to that list Chris the the chief's traffic um proposal that'll be coming with the with the March meeting Chief's traffic proposal officers and then the other the other priority issues Public Works building we can go and get the the bids on that not a problem um the flashing signs prices part of the traffic uh mitigation proposal and then we'll start the process or put the proposal out for generators I think you need to also specify how many how many signs we're looking at Chris I mean you're going to have different kinds of signs obviously you're going to have speed limit signs in streets now that we know don't even have speed speed limit well we know of one we know of one I'm guessing extrapolate that there probably others we aren't aware yeah that's what I'm saying so that's that's something that we can do quickly we can drive around and figure out what streets have speed limit signs and get that done and then and then um figure out how many signs we're going to need for this do not even speed uh campaign um he's coming back to march with that so yeah yeah but he's going to come back with a price not going to come back with how many we need we need to know how many dis is include is it 100 signs is 500 signs is it 50 signs is it 20 signs he's going to let us know how many entrances there are that's where oh that's the only place we're going to put them yeah that's what that's the whole point of it is you put them at the entrances that's how it was it it's it's everything that's needed that's how I see it I mean the police is to tell us where to put in and which signs to consider Chris um not to interrupt your your thought process are you still kind of working through some of the things that you wanted to document um no the only the only other one I had left was no we hit generators we're good okay very quickly just the electronic access yes was You' brought that up previously um was there a a timeline by which that we were looking to implement that or is it is it kind of longer term I know we got a couple of things that we're kind of queuing up here with hurricane season you know the generators and those things that those seem a little bit more timely we're already in February but what can you tell us more a little bit about the the timeline for the electronic AIS um the two answers to that question the timeline for implementation this is a very short project I already have two quotes in I'm waiting for a third quote so we can get it going very quickly the timeline for when it's needed is as soon as possible this is feeding into the accreditation process for the police department this is also [Music] addressing potential risks with our current evidence situation yeah um so the sooner that we can address those the better okay so we'll have a third quote and that'll be coming to us Doom I should have something at the March meeting right I want can I ask another question I guess this is of bread um when we look at this again is it possible to remove things that we have no interest in and make this thing a more compact easy to digest thing I I understand why everything's on here but like if you ask me about a public pool I'd say never or a splash pad or a water park I think some of these things need to be taken off if there it's very like cumbersome to look at something with so many lines of things that you're not going to if if this if this body if this group of Commissioners decides this is something that never wants to happen or that you never want to happen we'll pull it off the list you could add back another commission could be elected in the fall and they could say you know what Chris put a dinosaur putt putt Park in ask put on some of those line items that um that Mac just identified like the public pool I'm imag this came from the yeah you can see how many people it came from the survey right so maybe can we make them collapsible so we're not getting rid of them because they appear here for a reason yeah and I was going to suggest there's other opportunities of solution for I mean for me I would not remove anything at the end of the day that reflects everything people wanted to see addressed however we address does address everything that people wanted to see addressed there's things in there that didn't make it onto here so so for me is whatever it's here we need to address whatever was said from the community all those excels you made a summary here and whatever it's here needs to be addressed whether it's the pool cannot happen in biscane park and we make an agreement with the shores like Bay Harbor did that's an opportunity to address it so I think it's not taking away items but looking into private you know funding for certain things looking for partnership for certain things and answering to all of them but they're not at Capital well how about but it's not I wouldn't compl well no she's saying don't get rid of it so how about we reorder everything yeah and take all the unfunded stuff put it on the bottom put in a different tab on the spreadsheet or something so it's not I think it makes sense both both points make a lot of sense to clean it up a little bit also they're there for a reason so we're saying make easier to work with easier to read and but we're not losing the information that's fine that's a compromise awesome very they're gone but they're not really gone um Chris CH I'm I'm content with what we've gotten done anything else that you need tonight you lose a lot of hair already tell you trust no no no no I can get this done this week um tomorrow's Friday right it's already Thursday um I think the only the only thing that we need to discuss is your future Services number of hours cost those sorts of things because it sounds like we're going to be adding to what we originally discussed well if if it's just one more meeting and it's during the commission I'll come graus if it's going to extend beyond that then we'll talk okay all right there's a bowl of snacks behind you trust me I've already hit it all right so then H that's nice A little send off me for everybody all right so miss Dylan put a on speaker we'll have some fun longer than what we had expected or hoped but I think we did did great work tonight um we moved it along and and we're positioning ourselves for Success at the next meeting May any any closing remarks from you may I ask a question before you close yes sir procedural yeah thank okay so is the plan to have the a resolution with the um CIP attached as an exhibit for the March meeting and then you're going to amend from there or are we going to have this as a discussion item from the March meeting and then we and shoot for the the April meeting to approve it my understanding from what I've heard and correct me if I'm wrong is we're going to have this as a discussion potentially as a discussion item in March and then pass it in April but okay to to to John to your point from a timing perspective would it be better for to have Brad prepare the resolution for us with this is an attachment understanding we can amend it then it could come back in April just ready to go well it would be then you would be deferring it so that that there would be no point in doing that same thing resolution on a resolution that we haven't approved yeah okay so I guess if we if we if we pass this as is in March Ed as a resolution in March it wouldn't be that difficult to make any changes in April would it that just be another resolution we'd have to have a resolution amending the CIP and you and you know that's going to happen if we amend if we approved it in March as is now we know it's going to change yeah that's just just no no no but what I I think what I'm hearing is that we've already got in Direction on some changes we're going to come back with an updated version for you that's the one that we could also attach to a resolution in March in March and you could amend in April you know as you see fit I'm not com well I was what I was thinking is is we and again I don't want to put more more on Chris's plate and he already has so Chris please chime in if timing doesn't work what's that I I what you're cut out oh so Chris tell me if timing wise what I'm suggesting doesn't work because a lot of this is is on you and Allen 99% of it um I can draft a resolution and we can attach what you all create as a result of what we've talked about today and present that or tonight and present that resolution to the Commission in the March meeting they can review it and do what they do just like within the other resolution if they want to amend any portion of the CIP which is basically the spreadsheet is attached to the resolution that's what they approved and then there's a there's a second spreadsheet with the with the priority and then they can tweak it however they want to tweak it and approve it as amended in March and then there would be no reason to come back in April to to amend it if if that doesn't work in the time frame for you for Allan and Chris I get that I'm just asking well I I think this is going to be ultimately based on how much information we get to all of you how comfortable you are with it how much more you need so we're going to work expeditious to get you that information you'll tell us what else you'll need and then you know we we'll see how comfortable you are well but you can't do that that would be pulling us outside of a meeting no no I just to see how comfortable with you are moving forward not not whether or not you're going to say yes or not or anything I'm not I want to see it and I want us to talk about it and make sure it's right before we say attach it to a resolution so let's do a discussion item then that's what I'm Comfort if you guys think otherwise that's fine but I'm so do you think that in uh let's see how many how long we got left in this particular month year two weeks until the meeting yeah you think you think that all this information that we've asked you is going to be is is going to be real we're going to be able to get it in by the March meeting we should be able to get a good chunk of it um the pieces that I'm not confident on are going to be the generator pricing um well the gener the generator is already is already in the budg I mean we've already outlined a cost for that and we've kind of already said okay do it because it's a priority right didn't we say that I thought that yeah corre was a good number now wa what are you talking about that's what you said tonight yeah right and but what you're doing tonight is all discussion unofficial no I get it okay I get it I get it I get it but he's saying he's got to come back with a price thought we already had I thought we already had a price on the generate we have a pretty good guesstimate on the generate Oh I thought that one was actually firmer than a guesstimate oh that's so that's based on the eight most recent ones I've done okay so then so the the other the other one that I might not be able to get by the by the time by March would be the dog park think a discussion item okay I agree with the discussion item what happens with uh I mean this is going to continue to change that might be delays because the vendor doesn't provide it I mean things are out of your control so Brad what happens once you make a resolution you attach it you approve it the the following changes as a living document right because that's why you said at the end of the day you can amend the budget at any point during the year okay yeah this this is going to become part of your budget correct I'm saying we're we're very concerned about the making it for March but it could be that it's April or it could be that it's May because things can be falling in for any sort of sit circumstances beyond our control I'm saying he can put all your effort if the vendor doesn't answer it goes through over Sun you start fresh it might be another month so procedurally Brad so once we approve a resolution and we attach it at any time following that we need to make the changes to address if we're moving things along the months no so if you're the res if you were to change your priorities and or and or change rem or remove items from the CIP okay you would have to do a resolution amending which where wouldn't be if we are all aligned to what we see and we approve at the discussion then we'll move forward it will just be moving along the dates we're not removing we're not adding at this stage at least for this fiscal and we're just moving along with the plan once we once we get it done yeah then it's Chris's I think discussion item that is yeah so anything this year that is not budgeted for or that the budget has to change for any of these CIP items that would just be a budget amendment got it okay okay thank you now it goes without saying but just for those that might not know in the future these conversations will happen as part of your budget process and it won't be okay I'm just letting the we'll make budget process I think yes this coming in coming into the back endend of the budget process proc that you all went through this is the piece that was missing this is why we've been having so many issues because we didn't have this guiding document got it excuse me ready I'm ready mayor we moov it on in discussion okay discuss right thank you Alan thank you pleasure thank you guys so much uh guys Chris one one request I I think I heard you say at the last meeting my first meeting that uh you're you're kind of an Excel Guru that depends on what you're going to say next well I I I fancy myself one as well I've put it um can we make this like a shared document on SharePoint so that maybe we can work on it together to you know make sure that we have something that might be easier for um I don't know if it's easier as the right just something that um Brad that may be that may a legally sticky issue Brad yeah you got to be careful so I mean you can share the document but the Commissioners can't share their thoughts yeah you can't make other words if it's a document you all could make additions and and comments and see what everybody did that would be a sunshine viation no no just the architecture of the file like maybe like how things are highlighted and you know there's some tricks you can use to group things like you know moving things around that of thums and some I you guys can do it he can't share it with all of us because if we got in there and did things and saw what each other did that would be a problem Chris may I have it in an Excel format because I would like it's easier for me to make my notes on it directly on it and play with stuff and I add columns with my notes and questions and blah blah blah yeah the next the next step is once um once Allan and I have a chance to chat and put all this together we'll get that draft out to you I don't want to send anything out as it is right now but can I can I get it in Excel instead of a PDF yeah the it's same way that I've sent sent this out to you previously yep okay thank you David's raising his hand do you have a question no as far as as far as I know the bidding was ending like I said in the 22nd I'll have to double check on that