##VIDEO ID:vvTBt4dcVj8## e e so I have six o'clock so let's go ahead and call to order our special Commission meeting uh for tonight Tuesday November 26 2024 uh Madam clerk would you please pleas do the roll call for us may Gro here may Huntington here Amsler here commissioner Kennedy here samor yeah Mr Mayor you have a quum thank you madam cler it looks like we have Brad waiting in the the waiting room there for us as well um okay so uh let's go ahead and do our Pledge of Allegiance please okay all right so let's go ahead and uh get started with our public comment we'll start with those here in the Log Cabin it doesn't look like we have anyone on Zoom um so we'll do the log cabin and uh just a reminder name and address please and uh public comment is limited to 3 minutes thank you I ask a question where's the zoom link I don't it's not on the agenda I'm looking at the agenda I see I see oh it's on the agenda itself I see okay never mind Bob Anderson 11905 Northeast 11th Place um I want to start off with something a little different that happened today and I like to thank the police department for it we have an elderly couple that lives across the street street from us and they stopped by to do a welfare check to make sure they were okay they the people that the elderly people um neighbor let them know that they didn't have any hot water and so one of the officers went and to check the water heater it's a gas water heater it's part of a shed fastened to the side of the house when the officers went around there to check on it they could smell gas so they immediately turned the gas off and started checking they had fire department come out to go ahead and check for leaks and they had too and come to find out there was a deteriorated pipe inside the gas water heater and I can imagine if they didn't stop by for doing a welfare check in a couple of G days of gas leak what might have happen so I want to really thank the police department and thank the chief for a quick response now going on for why we're why the meeting is you have two candidates in my mind living here for all the years we've lived here serving on a commission there should be only one choice and that's the person that's sitting here right now El chers that has proven himself extremely capable to the village and he has has a background he knows what he's doing for what we're going through in this Village right now with the administration this is the time to get a professional in here not somebody who's learning thank you Janie Anderson 11905 Northeast 11th place with all that's going on and now we're going to have another special election you know you're going to be missed right Mac a whole lot and we have the former police chief apparently selling excuse me suing the village now is not the time to make hiring decisions based on who will work for the least amount of money no disrespect intended to Mr Sid but you can't compare being the mayor in a town that does not have a strong mayor form of government and it sounded kind of like it did but if you look at Miami Lakes Charter their mayor's Duties are very similar to ours with one or two little exceptions versus an Al with all those years that background the knowledge the experience the education and the icing on the cake being his commitment and stake in this village now I know some of you were a little hung up on the salary issue but when it came forward that when you added everything together inclusive of benefits for our former manager it came to 176,000 and that former manager did not come to us with Alice qualifications there really should no longer be an issue and you know I've watched for 48 years where we and we nickel and dime and we waste a whole lot of money thinking we're saving money that's got to stop or it just becomes you know doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results no we have the first chance we've ever had to put a truly sharp candidate in this position let's not blow it please affirm his contract tonight Linda Dylan 712 115 Street first I want to say that I think Al is the most qualified person that we've had in years I don't have anything negative to say about him one way or another but I do have one thing to say and that is I am concerned that the position was advertised for 100,000 and we had several other people who were willing to accept that level and we may have had more people apply if we had announced that it was going to be a nego negotiable salary what I would have preferred um is that I would accept the 100,000 that as it was advertised and then if he was going to apply for the full position then go for whatever amount he felt he was worth which I think would be the moon thank you John Holland 844 Northeast 1119 Street before I start the clock commissioner it's nice to see you and it's nice to see you I imagine for the last time at this day is correct probably possibly we'll see thank you for your service and for your dedication um my thoughts on this whole thing were this if the only reason for voting no is because ly I hear your concerns and I've heard other people's concerns about the fact that the job was advertised at 100,000 you applied for it knowing that he probably wouldn't accept that and that if we had to put the advertisement differently like a range or salary or commensurate on experience we would have had more people apply those are all very valid points um but I think that if the only reason for voting no is because we advertise 100,000 and that's not what Al is willing to accept I just wanted to give my perspective as someone who's been in Corporate America and I don't say that with pride I wish we might have been an entreprene rur done something different but I've been in Corporate America for a shamefully long period of time this is not at all uncommon especially when you're looking for senior level positions people will apply for an ad CFO of a firm you think it pays this they don't advertise okay and then you get candidates and usually they're within the range but sometimes you get someone who's just too good of a fit to let go and you stretch and in this case we're not even stretching outside the budget right we're staying within our means and the way I want you to think about this is if this helps with the hang-up is to think of it as like consultancy engagement another thing I've learned from being in Corporate America in a long time is that Consultants are really really expensive and the reason they're really really expensive is that a they're usually really really really good at what they do and B they can add value their their job is essentially to add value beyond their time frame while they're there to build a road map to build a strat plan to do to to birth something right so taking the eagle in hand tonight and approving this contract gives you a couple of benefits one it keeps the current momentum that he's been building in the last Almost what two months now doing this job essentially for free for two months um without without losing any steam but also it gives you guys time on the commission to really think about what is what are we comfortable paying someone for the longterm what is this position really worth advertise it properly with a range or verbiage to say we're flexible depending on experience and then see what you get and that gives you time to really take your time and make the right decision instead of rushing into something so again I emphasize the idea that if you view this as kind of a consultancy engagement and Al to his on his side of the bed might decide there's not a number that I can put out there that they're going to be comfortable with and maybe he has other things come up he does have the experience he is a good candidate maybe something else is going to come his way that will make this job less attractive so while you have him maybe perhaps it's a short-term goal to say hey we're going to give you what we can out of our budget the number we agreed to but part of your thinking needs to be you might not have this job in a year build a good road map so that whoever does take this if it's not me has some really good to-dos for the next few years that you don't get someone in experience who would take a longer time to get to those ideas and to itemize that Strat plan thank you thank you I do have rehearsal tonight so I'm sorry I can't stick around and watch all this but I will be listening as much as I can on the earpiece so if you see another name on the thing it's probably we have any others in the low cabin none okay uh any on Zoom before we go forward no okay Jonathan I'm on the agenda and there's no Zoom link on the agenda and it's not on the agenda and it's not on the calendar either so I'm not able to zoom it's on the calendar on the calendar it's on the calendar it the the links kind of blend into one but if you look you can see that it's it's there I tested it out I'm looking at calendar I go thank you looks like one link told you it looked like one link but it's there okay um all right so having no comments on Zoom thanks for everyone for uh coming out and providing public comment it's always appreciated um to get some uh to get some insight from from our residents and uh former Commissioners um all inclusive and employees as well um okay so are there any um specific replies to any of the comments that we've heard before we jump into the discussion none seeing none seeing none okay all right so um let's go ahead and get into our discussion item for the evening which is um the uh the interim contract for our interim our temporary interim manager right now uh Mr childis um I think this is probably just kind of an open format um it's kind of the way that I had envisioned it going or if there's anyone that wants to get us started on any the Salient points um you know I know at our at our other meeting or prior meeting um we had Mr Sid with us I know he's not with us tonight um but um uh really just kind of open to entertaining any discussion points that we have on the item or any motions for that matter I guess anyone like to volunteer it's going to I will sure I stated my case pretty clearly last time and my position hasn't changed so I'll keep it short um uh I'm happy uh giving Al the position but not at the compensation that we discussed uh it's uh the points have been made by some other people in the room and I made most of them last time but I'll repeat very quickly the position was advertised for $100,000 we advertise it as such all the applicant applied knowing that we had one at least stand up and say yes he understood and he was willing to do it for that money um and Al knew that uh and he applied for the position for 100 at at no point did we indicate that there would be any negotiation going on uh it's a 76% pay increase uh over what we advertised I find it a bit insulting to the people who applied and were here prepared to be part of the conversation that we jumped on someone very quickly and I'm sure they all understood why we Al kind of was the leading horse in the race uh but that on top of that we then launched into an enormous salary increase that was not advertised or indicated in any way so I think it's insulting to them that the job was offered to Al and then at a much higher rate and then we stood here with Al at the podium and negotiated that with him live at a meeting um and I dare say had we advertised it for $176,000 I wonder who else we would have gotten there were some very qualified people on that list the icma was aware that were advertising this um and had we advertised it for 176 I wonder who we would have gotten if that were what we wanted to do it wasn't what we decided we were going to do when we decided to move forward and how we would move forward and at what amount so doing it after the fact feels a bit like a baen switch um in terms of it being a negotiation I don't respect that kind of negotiation when it's done after the fact um I wouldn't want any manager negotiating on our behalf like that whether we get a better deal or not uh negotiation should be handled in a certain way and I don't feel it was very a very respectful process or very transparent process I've had some residents contact me and say things like does it open us up to litigation I have no idea the fact that we advertis it at one rate I hope bride would advise us that it is or it isn't um but the process really bothered me it really really bothered me and I left here well we were prepared to talk about it last week but between the first that special meeting and the November meeting when we meant to discuss it uh I thought about it very open-minded prepared to look at it from every direction and I have since then and I'm still stuck in the same place I'm still stuck that I I don't like the process it didn't feel genuine to me it felt uh bit like a bait and switch I don't like the fact that you know Alis is is a qualified professional Municipal manager and he has made his mostly his entire career of it if that was his desire and intent he could have and should have asked for that and made it clear to us not a commissioner on the day as saying I think we're not paying him enough he's the guy he advertised for the rate he advertised at that rate and now we need to pay him more money it's our job to mind the budget and I understand we're still staying within the total budget but it's not what we budgeted for that position when we advertised it so I didn't like the way I didn't like the process and I didn't like the fact that Al didn't ask for it that it was offered to him it didn't feel genuine to me um some other things that I'm worried about like to think I'm not a naive person if we do this and Al applies for the permanent position which he's indicated he will and he gets that position he's not going to go back to the a salary anywhere remotely close to what we have budgeted so we have in the budget a salary and all these other benefits and it's a total package and you can work within the total value of that package but let's not be naive to think he's going to go from 176 and salary down to anything in the 100 plus range he's going to say this is what I'm worth which is what he stood here and said to us and remember it's an interim position it's meant to be shortterm keep the lights on um but he's not going to jump back down to0 120 and keep in mind that we have two Charter officers here in the village one is the manager and the other is the attorney if you do this and their pays or their pays are comparable to each other uh the salary part of at any rate uh it would only be reasonable that we would do the same thing with the attorney so don't think the Brad and his firm aren't going to come to us and say okay if that's what you guys are paying Charter officers now then it's time to Pony up the dough and it's going to be time to renegotiate their contract as well I'm very happy with the law firm we have exceptionally happy with our law firm and I'd hate to lose them and these are the kind of things that can make you lose a law firm when they say okay this is what the going rate is for a charter officer in your village now pay me the same or something close to it and if we say no or can't then we're going to lose the attorney so we have to think beyond the immediate situation here in front of our nose right now which is getting an interim manager this is an interim position short term keep the village running until we go through a process which is I hope starts quickly I mean we talked about getting a head hunter in here and I'm hoping that we're going to find out very quickly that we have you know some uh we have some candidates for that um but it's going to back us into a corner it's going to lead to a much higher salary for a manager uh and the attorney possibly I think it sends a really bad message out there that this is how biscane Park operates it feels a little trying to pick a word that is not too strong not I don't even want to say that word because that sounds too strong it just doesn't sound like a good clean genuine transparent process that this Village should undertake to hire an interim manager so it bugs me it really bugs me from several different perspectives particularly the fact that Al didn't mention this during the process Al didn't stand up and say thank you very much for having the confidence in me to think I'm the guy to do this you all need to know I can't do it for that amount of money I'm worth more and I need more that's what a an executive does I just negotiated a a compensation package for myself that's what we do on our own behalf I also worry how it raises the ceiling on all the salaries in the village um when we if this passes I'm a no I'm a hard KN and nothing's changing that if this passes Jonathan I have some questions and comments about the the agreement itself but I'm going to hold them to see if it passes if it passes I'd like to come back and bring those up that's it thanks great okay yeah I'd like to reply to that uh first off as you ask around in this when hiring this level of a manager then the salary is always negotiable any manager who or any prospective candidate who applied should have known that at senior level positions like this salary is always negotiable I'm sure this commission when we set up the uh the advertisement did not even anticipate we would get a candidate like alch but we did and we have to take that seriously he is offering to stay within our budget so we're not going over budget and let's really look at this advertisement qualifications eight years of progressive senior level experience a at least a bachelor's degree in the field our second candidate who came very close to being our pick in my opinion doesn't meet those qualifications so if we're willing to change the qualifications for a candidate salary should be in the same realm where we negotiate we're negotiating qualifications we're negotiating salary to me it's a no-brainer we're staying within the budget we're getting the best candidate by far are and to say that $100,000 is within the realm of possibility and that Al might go back to that no he probably will not but if you look around the county no one is working in this position for $100,000 the closest would be Village of elport hotel right down the street from us at 145 and that agreement that manager is allowed to have a second job we don't requ we require that our village manager does not so we have to compensate them for such Al has the experience he has the respect in the field he has the the education he needs to be compensated for that and one thing I've learned through all this that Al everyone said is a man of his word Al has worked for the last six weeks unfortunately because of me two extra weeks without a contract he could have at any time put the keys on the desk and walked out the door if he wanted to and he didn't he stayed by and he did good work and saved the village a lot of money and a lot of Heartache with things he found in in the last six weeks to me it's time we treat Al right and give him the contract he deserves since I was not on a commission since I was not on a commission when we first looked at the temporary City manager's position I hope I will be given extra time to discuss my concerns about hiring Mr Childress is our temporary city manager and giving him all he wants in this agreement I have a lot of concerns about why this commission seems to rush give Mr CH just what he wants after all this is a temporary City manager's position not a permanent the amount or I I I really would like to know what the commission because I wasn't on it was put for what how much they will get for temporary city manager there were a lot of problems that I have with this agreement but I will talk about two important ones paying them $176,000 and a 10we payout which comes to approximately $33,860 for some reason reason we do not hire him or fire him we would have to pay that out I asked Mr child this many times if he would go back to the $100,000 that along with 10 other people well actually 12 but two they pair out that agreed to he told me that he would not he wants to agree only to what is in the agreement I hope the commission will remember when they what they told the residents when child Mr chis told each of them that he could not do it for 100 $1,000 and what each of the Commissioners responses was if I'm not correct there was at least three Commissioners who said this offer was not acceptable I would ask Mr chis have you completed a full contract that you have as a city manager with the two pass jobs darell and Key West how much were you the two payouts that you had received from each of them those cities did you leave or were you laid off how many years you really have as a city manager not don't not as assistant city manager did you complete and now I want to talk about this $176,000 it's a bad idea to pay him in we advertised this position for $100,000 with no benefits we had 12 people who applied two of them dropped out this was advertised as a temporary position not a permanent one I believe with the advertising we misled people who applied and LED them to believe that we were only paying $100,000 with no benefits this agreement is open-ended with no set date it should not go past it should not go past four to six months do we really give contracts to temporary positions as an employer myself I would not if we advertised that we were paying $176,000 I bet we would have gotten a lot more people who are qualified by no means am I saying that he's not qualified I believe that we have opened ourselves up to a lawsuit that we misled people apply for this first time and what we are paying the attorney does misleading the application the applicants open us up for pause in the problem if Chan says he cannot do the job that we advertise for then we should not hire him for the temporary city manager especially when we have someone who's qualified and is willing to do it for what we adverti and he spoke as one commissioner at the first meeting ask him if he would be willing to do a $100,000 and uh $100,000 with no benefits as a temporary city manager the intentional along if the intention by this commission was to give Mr to give Mr CH the chance to be our city manager then we could have did that from the first you could have done that from the first day I've spoken to some people I know Mr chis who said he's a aggressive his attitude is not good towards people I like to talk about an incident and I can live by this incident I can talk about an incident that happened we I wanted to bring back the city uh bring back American the veterans program here in Florida and Mr Cho just made a suggestion to me that I should go talk to people at Dale since he was there they have a very good program and that he would he recommended that I take the that I take the chief with me so we went up there as a City Commissioner I approached a couple of the city managers I mean a couple of the the Commissioners that were there and asked them what they thought of Mr chis because we were thinking about hiring him as our temporary city manager a lot of them didn't want to respond to it so I left it at that I felt that was my responsibility as a commissioner since I was there to find out uh since he held that position and what he felt when I got back I had a call from Mr ches that I felt was very intimidating where he told me why was I talking to the people up there you know we did have friends up there and that I could have checked the information with with freedom you know public works I just felt that as an official and I have the right as a commissioner to ask about that and I think that that's intimidation it bothered me very much that I am one commissioner at a five that it will be his boss and he has no right to tell me that I can't talk to anybody up there so that bothered me temporary position is to keep the village running till we find a permanent position I think if the commission would have started from the beginning and said that we're looking for permanence after he applied for the temporary city manager and said we think he's qualified let's go forward with the permanent City manager's position I don't think that we had to advertise again and say we're going to do a permanent we could have selected him as permanent manager at that time we are giving payouts to a temporary position that we can replace them at any time and normal the if we advertis the position for 176,000 we might have gotten a lot of qualified people if you want to hire him as city manager then just say it that you want to have him as city manager and I don't think you have to go on with the process so again tonight we're talking about temporary city manager not whether or not he's qualified to be permanent city manager thank you so my answer going to be no would you like to you like Okay um so yeah I I'm mag I kind of join you in spending a lot of time thinking about this and and Al we've spent plenty of time together so far and you know I'm appreciative of of what you've done for us and and some of the directions that you've taken us so far um I I of course do want to hear from you at the end of this as well so don't think you won't get an opportunity to kind of voice your opinion um yeah you know so a couple of things um you know I know I think there's there is a process question for me as well um not that this is I'm not saying that this is the Crux you know this isn't the deciding point I think the process for um when I try to look back on it I try not to look back on on all this and and second guess how things went because I think leading up to that that meeting you know we did have a lot of qualified people uh we had a lot of PE I think 12 applicants in total once we got down to the withdrawals uh we had people with a lot of a lot of interesting backgrounds people that um you know had a lot of experience um I know we all spoke to them and we very quickly identified based on some of our previous experiences we identified some folks that were in state people and and I know I I wanted someone that had experience in in Miami D County because Miami is a special place um as as we've all learned um so I think that's kind of why we Whittle down to where we got with you know the people that we we ended up speaking to um yeah and to to to the vice mayor's Point um you know Al I think it's it least it clear to me um you know Al seems to be the most qualified um and um you know to to your point commissioner qualifications I I think we're kind of past that I think we agree that Mr CH has qualified for the position um certainly I think the most difficult the most difficult for me is is one of two things it's it's one the process of how it ended up working out yes we advertise it at a point we've always talked about we advertise positions for what they are and then we negotiate them um I understand that uh we did jump out very quickly you know um but we are where we are so let's you know let's focus on on kind of where we are the big question for me um Al um I'm I'm very happy with the job that you've done so far um I think that you're very qualified for it I think the fact that you live here and have lived here for a long time is very beneficial um you know you um Al and I were able to attend the county mayor's um induction ceremony or whatever it was called um Al knew a lot of the folks he knew a lot of the people in the county everybody knew him um so it's it's it's comforting to see that we have someone that's well connected in County um I think the sticking point again is process from here and then looking forward um because I think and you all can correct me if I'm wrong the the number that we landed on was kind of the total package it was that's we we took um the benefits and kind of rolled that into like the salary I just don't know that that's going that base salary plus more benefits I just don't know if that's going to be in play you know and I I wouldn't want to put us in a position here where we're saying okay Al yes let's go with 176 now and we'll figure out the permanent position later because um you know in the interest of of you know having been trying to be fair to the people that applied um I know there are people that are still interested in the perminent position I know a few myself that have still voiced an interest and going through the process is still very important to to see who's interested to see you know what they're interested in doing it for um so I guess that's I I think that's maybe the sticking point for me is is is let's say hypothetically speaking we say Okay Al we're happy with 176 right now with no benefits for the interim position of course it's interim um you know I don't want to put the C before the horse but I don't want to put you in a position where you come back and say okay 176 is what I'm happy with to to ma to your point 176 is what I'm happy with but now I need that with Benefits um I don't want to put us in a financial bind but I also don't want to lose a man of your caliber and experience of quality so um it's kind of a rock kind of hard place right now um I will tell you right now if um if if that's a discussion that we are willing to have um about making sure that we don't and I I will set back very quickly and say when we had these initial discussions I was in favor of of raising um uh not the intern manager but I mean the manager position I thought that it was important that we we offer more money to a manager um after we've moved on from from Chris I thought it was important that we we do that um to bring in some folks with some more experience and qualifications so I just I don't know that 176 with more is is going to to happen I just don't um so I just don't want to put you in a difficult position to say if that's what you now are intent on coming back and telling us whenever we find or go through the permanent position um that's going to be it maybe it is and maybe we have other permanent people that say well 176 with with Benefits Works um so to me again I don't want to I don't want to put the cart before the horse but I just wanted to express kind of my my looking forward here um about where we will end up um so it's just it's important to keep in mind um a couple other things when we get to the point where we're talking about advertising um you know John you mentioned a few things that have been on my mind as well about you know advertising and positions and you know it's kind of a a larger conversation that we can have um certainly I'd be open to listening to um to the Brad uh advise on on any type of you know potential ation or potential um liability with respect to misleading application I don't want to put my attorney hat on I don't really know that there is but I I would certainly be willing to or eager to hear Brad um on that point to kind of assuage any potential concerns that we have um it's it's a lot of money and it and it's a big jump um but I'm I'm of the position right now where I I do want to stay look long term you know I want us to understand where we're going um I we don't want this financially to get out of control for us because financials this is very important um but for the interm basis um for the interm basis I I'm happy with what you've done and I'd be happy having you continue to serve in the role under the current contract we'll talk about terms to to commissioner Kennedy's Point um but I just I just want you to know that that's that's where my mind is at now is is when we get to a permanent position you know we this this can't go out of control for us because financially we need to be responsible and that's important to me so that's where I stand right now um and um I'm just I I appreciate your help in in guiding the community uh where you've been so far so thank you and um I'll pass it along okay thank you I wanted to touch on on something I don't know if you guys received an email but I did from a resident concern maybe on the ability of all of us to vote without conflict of interest so I just wanted to straight ahead ask if anybody knows all from a personal standpoint besides um you know having had the chance to work with him for this two P months is is are all of you um able to vote and when to make sure I say that out I'm guessing we all are that's what we're discussing because I've had people come forward and and sort of raise that concern so um in my perspective everything has been done transp in a transparent way I do understand that the negotiations maybe took us to very quickly a number that we weren't expecting to talk about but um that's a different uh subject with that said um I wanted to answer the first question so do you guys know all I'll in any other way besides I do not I do not and I don't know if that the email that I got was directed towards me and whether or not they actually assumed that me and I went to the same church and that is definitely not true I I I don't go to church and and I did not know Al before this process uh when the name was given to me I said he lives in biscane park I had no idea so I want to assure everybody that there is no conflict conflict of interest me and Al do not go to the same organizations whether it's church or any other professional or social organizations we did not know each other before okay I appreciate you saying that um so that's cleared um and then yeah so in that man because I talked to Brad about what that meant and all so I just wanted to put it out all right so in terms of the the work so far I mean I I've had the chance to closely work with Al I've already told you this I appreciate very much your style what you've done for us in this two months we needed a serious knit to the role that comes with your experience so for what you've done thank you I also have very much my concerns about the budget and what this means in terms of setting precedent I also have concerns in terms of what it means presenting this to other candidates all the point point you've all made are very um much valid to myself as well um here's the reasons why today going back and forth doing some research I was debating whether he's worth it or not um we are due for an increase on this position long-term period I think we all know that I think advertising for 100 was a mistake we put $100,000 with no benefit it was going to attract a certain caliber um that does not match what people are getting paid in the county at all and so I think in my experience and I interviewed everybody except for one person that really didn't match what I was looking for the rest I talked to everybody couple of them stepped down when I spoke about Al and they said well you already have him like I'm out you don't need me so I thought that was very com you know that was amazing people that knew you and then knew your experience can speak about that and I didn't enter in negotiations with everybody clearly but I can tell you only saw two people show up for that minute what we made the decision and these are the two candidates we're currently talking about there was another one never had the chance to talk about it wasn't in my top list either so I was happy to see that the two people I was considering from the three were here and that means a lot to me you have to be here in the meeting and you have to say what you're looking for and you have to say what your price is and all of that so I think that makes a very clear process and that's a check from it okay um the position advertised at 100 again we're going to get the opportunity to see what the position is worth once we go to the consultant that's going to guide us we cannot continue to do this ourselves sort of you know Cola dictat 6% increase I'm going to tell you our budget has increased since fiscal 2021 about 42% and that position only about half not even 18% so that means a lot of the budget we've allocated everywhere else except when it comes to the manager except when it comes to staff so I think we need to really pay close attention to the standards that we are asking and the type of people we're asking to do the job come with a certain price tag and so in my exploration and Talking Mario Diaz is the president of the Miami day County uh City uh management association and is a long name I don't know if I said it right he um he has sort of that information in terms of how many years of experience do other managers have what's the current salaries all the benefits and so looking into all of that I can tell you nobody at the level of experience of Al would be committing to 100 Grand and it is also coming from corporate a very very normal thing to do to go for the moon and then look somewhere in between I think that in between where we can land which is our Max budget it's not even what he could apply for for any other place he would go and get you know paid a lot more than this but it's an interim position it's temporary I'm not making suggestions as to is this going to be longterm because I was going through that and we discuss that with Al like are you do you want this long term you know and again I think the focus is now the now is this position is interim we need it for a short period of time May four to six month it's within the budget it's what we currently have allocated for so $112,000 Plus benefits add up to $176 Al is asking the 176 again less than what he would have had paid been paid anywhere else compared to all the other including El portel with Benefits the restrictions we have currently in the contract versus other cities as well all of that is part of the evaluation so is it a lot of money for us it is and it is because we haven't been good at making sure that this position stays competitive over time we've been allocating the budget again to things we need and we feel is important and I hear you it's a lot to ask now to go to 76% increase from a salary base perspective but that's not what we're doing for the permanent position so it's not setting any precedent to me to be honest I really want a professional come over and scratch everything up and say you've been lucky to have Mario take that position for so many years at the priz you've been lucky to have X and YZ position you know and then we got sort of what we paid for and others I want to be fair and have an analysis on this long term again permanent uh temporary position we have the budget so with that said I also alen I had a meeting this morning and you know going back and forth into what this meant I was sort of feeling like you uh Jonathan when it comes to do we have the money is it too much it is I'm 100% on board to go ahead and spend what we said we were going to spend for the temporary position what I have found out to do in this mid few two months uh transitioning with Chris is a lot a lot of experience a lot of seriousness a lot of process a lot of understanding on the back end things that we none of us haven't ever been a city manager position before we can understand it required but he knows the insights as to what questions are we not asking and I think a lot of that is what I thought and it made me feel very comfortable with work with him that experence experience is exactly the sort of um guidance I'm looking for to make the decisions we need to make and for that I appreciate it and it's also refreshing for someone to come and say how much they're worth to be honest most people would go and negotiate and you were very clear you're like this is what the position is worth and again we're going to find out when we go long term and explore that we the consultant but I think we do it to the Village to hire right now we have it he's been doing it for free so just literally let it be for four six months it's in the budget it's not an increase of our existing budget more than what we already approved which was a 6% year-over-year which is under still the increments that other cities have seen which is not even half of the increments we've seen of the budget so again all of these things and all the analysis um mandates that for me he's the right person to to keep in on board the other thing I thought it was very important The Experience after the year we had with a previous manager who had no experience it's even more crucial um the things that been able to sort out are in the midst of sorting out they're looking into the different departments as the police department you know uh when it comes to public works when all the different departments all the again it's very clear the experience comes H in handy for us when you can have someone just very quickly been able to make a few changes he's done because he understands what it takes to do the job right and so I again I am I want to say thank you for doing it for free for two months I really want you to stay committed for the ne for me this is not interim does not mean we stay afloat for me interim and you have within your power as we have seen no other or different power or less power than the permanent position so I want that to continue you never show Shy of like I'm not I'm just inrim so I'm not going to take full action you have all that and I'm hoping to continue to see stepping forward on that will you be here long term I don't think so because I think again you might have other opportunities out there to the level you've been exposed I hope you consider when that time comes and we have a better appropriate salary exploration but um I want to continue to see from you the next next four to six months whatever it takes us to find the permanent position as engaged as you have been and thank you for for that engagement so far so it's say yes okay um just want to thank the commission uh for the discussion points on this I think it's important um feel like we might have done it a little out of order Al I apologize um because I probably should have given you an opportunity to speak before we all spoke so my iies on that point um I know you've already heard a lot I don't know if there's anything specific that you'd like to talk about um I know um commissioner Kenny has some questions about the contract I have a couple of questions as well if you want to wait if you want to you wait okay all right that's fine um so uh as I understand uh the will of the commission right now we have a majority on the the contract uh at least the contract amount in term um for the interim position um but uh there's a couple questions on the terms of the contract that we'd like to talk about um have something uh a couple things that I'd like to talk about as well um you want to get it started I I'm happy to lead off with mine okay okay so it's a short list um section four uh put my screen here term y uh it says the the towards the end it says and the intent it is the intent of the parties that children sh parte can be compensated for a transition period of 10 days um shell is a definite word uh and that means that we're obligated to it from my understanding I think I would be more comfortable if that was May um uh so we aren't obligated look look if we're not happy with something why should we be obligated to a transition period um that we may not want we just experienced a transition period that didn't exactly go the way that we thought it it should go and Al took care of that for us thank you Al again um and uh so I'd hate to have us find ourselves in a position like that again so I don't understand why we would be obligated to a transition period here if we decide we don't want it uh 5c holidays uh this is a a it's it's a temporary position but it is a salary position um and people in in at this level don't get if they work a holiday they don't get paid for it so I don't think it's appropriate that he will be entitled to compensation if he worked on a holiday I'm sorry which section was that again Max 5c 5c okay thanks it says that if he works on a a holiday he'll get paid for it he's not an hourly employee uh section 6 C is about terminating him if we terminate him we owe him 10 days uh I'm sorry 10 weeks of aay I don't think it's appropriate to pay someone 10 weeks of pay if we're terminating them because we're not happy with their work uh we should be able to let them go and not pay that I don't think it there should be any compensation in that regard and I think 10 weeks if it were there 10 weeks is very excessive to me again this is not a permanent position this is an interim position someone who's filling it for us until we make a permanent hire if it was a a permanent hire and we wanted to negotiate something like that with someone who we had done the process of finding and recruiting and you know we're hiring them on a permanent basis that would be one thing but that's not the case here uh and my last point is um 11a it says he must get our permission to I think that's in reference to attending things if it's in the budget I'm not sure why he would have to get our permission to go do something that's in the budget where is it 11 yeah uh attending U events and things if they're things that are in the budget I'm not certain why he would need to come to us for those are my points okay so um Brad are you with us I am okay great so starting just backwards with some of the points that um um ma was uh discussing there I 11a I was I almost read it as consistent with the vill The Village budget so almost sounds like if it's if it is budgeted for that that's not required can you can you shed some light on that for us well I mean we've had that that's that Vision it was in uh your former manager's contract as well um what it does is it in order for the manager to travel or attend any seminar conference um you you have to approve that travel and that attendance um it's it's a way for you to keep track of what conferences he attends what type of travel um or seminars he goes to so you're aware where he is and and what the costs are if your if your budget generally has a general a a general provision for a certain amount designated for conferences and seminars this is specifically related to the actual seminar or conference that that that um I would go to okay so this is then just I guess kind of consistent and appropriate or consistent with the the agreements that we've had with managers in the past then yeah it's not necessarily an appropriation item it's the money's so you all appropriated a certain amount of money for the manager to attend conferences and seminars if but for him to go to a specific one under this provision and like I said it was in the former manager contract I can take it out if you all wish he has to seek your permission to attend the money might already be allocated but he still has to seek your permission with that I mean if it's been in there and that's kind of the way that we've operated in in if it's consistent with the budget I don't know that there's much need to to amend it okay um so uh again just running backwards there I know at least 6C uh the severance I think that was a recommendation there that that be removed or altered what um so the the severance provision was not in the original agreement that I drafted um Mr child made that request so I I put it I put it in there so that the commission can consider it and have that discussion with Mr childr at this at this time okay um okay since I brought it up Brad am I understanding this correctly let me make sure I my concern is what I'm thinking it is it's without cause if there's cause that's a different thing altogether but if it's without cause we're just not pleased with the performance is performance right there's not a specific thing that that was is caused for termination but we're it's just not working out at that point he's an interim employee you're G you're gonna give we would have to pay him 10 weeks of pay that's how that provision you would have to give him a 10-day transition period and pay him 10 more weeks of pay well the 10day no so that's that's different you're they're talking apples and oranges um you had mentioned the transition period we can talk about that in a minute the transition period I'm sorry let's just do the 10 weeks then we would we would be required at that point hey no harm no foul nothing specific that you did that was like some egregious thing we're just not happy and we're going to move on to another interim person you would weeks yeah that's unless it's for for cause as defined in the statute okay that's again respectfully L that's a huge ask that's a that's an enormous ask Mr Mayor can I respond yeah of course so on the floor statute any any employee that has a contract contract employee if we had a if you're police chief had a contract under Florida statute by by Statute you have to give them 20 weeks severance package it's required under that statute so I is this a is this an employee that's an employee right any employee any employee any contract employees required 20 weeks servant servant is that correct Brad I I don't interpret the statute the same way as Mr J okay our attorney is saying otherwise well if you if you read it and and I read it it says the maximum is 20 20 weeks yeah correct the maximum 20 weeks okay you didn't say maximum the first time maximum is 20 weeks correct that's correct you cannot give an employee more than 20 weeks correct well that's not what you said the first time you said right any any more than 20 it says you you may give them Brad does it say you may give them no more than 20 weeks uh give me I'm pulling up the statute IES it and does it require any amount of severance right while you're looking what's the statute please it's um it's four I'm sorry I just pull it up 215 Point 425 just give me a moment because if my memory is it does not there is no requirement that Severance be given however you cannot exceed 20 weeks if you were to negotiate a severance and it also requires you to put a provision similar to the provision I I put in here into the agreement which says that that that employee would not be entitled to Severance if they committed misconduct as defined in Florida statute 43303 620 um so just looking at the provision it's subsection 4A 4 a that um yeah it's so it's um got to go back sorry 215. 4254 a and it just basically says a un unit of government that enters into a contract or employment agreement will renewal or renegotiation of an existing contract or employment agreement that contains a provision for severance pay with an officer agent employer or contractor must include the following Provisions in this contract and then it goes into the provisions one is the prohibition as I said for misconduct cannot exceed 20 weeks um and it said it specifically says in here this subsection does not create an entitlement the severance pay and the absence of this authorization so there is not not obligated there's no obligation no there is no obligation but if you are to give a governmental employee a severance package you must comply with this provision with regards to that okay so back to my point it's excessive We Now understand that it's not required Al are you do you understand do you now agree with what the attorney is saying I yeah to answer your question commissioner this is a standard practice for city managers and all all their contracts is they're giving 20 weeks that provision in the state statute was was enacted because there was 60 weeks given 52 weeks given stat in the stat in the legislation came back and said the maximum you can give is 20 weeks okay because because that that was occurring throughout the state so that's not what you just said a minute ago though I'm not going to sit here and argue with you but Brad has made it very clear to us what it says and I'm looking at what it says but what you said a minute ago is not what it says in here you characterize it as something different and it's not what it says so it is not standard that you would get Severance if we were to if we were to offer standard throughout city manager contracts if you you look at city manager contracts throughout the state there's 20 week Severance and for Chiefs of police there's 20 week severence but that's not what you said a minute ago when commissioner let me I'm trying to clarify it for you so that that's standard throughout the state in any contract for a city manager or for your police chief it's 20 weeks I don't know written I written I written several of them it's always 20 weeks in there for your for Chief that's not what was presented to us and that's not what we said a minute ago so that's what I'm saying again I don't like i' like things to be very clear and methodical and organized as you progress through them not say this someone challenges it now we get clarification on it I don't like to operate like that I just don't guys again we were just told something that's not exactly true Brad corrected it for us now we understand we're not obligated to do this so back to my point this is an interim position if he doesn't work out in an interim position this is a temporary thing and we say no harm no foul not going to work out we have to pay him 10 week salary how much is that dollar does anyone have a dollar figure attached to that approximately $ 33,800 we owe them over $30,000 when he didn't work out I'm sorry I just don't spend money like that it's not my money to spend like that it's not how I throw money around yeah I I disagree with commissioner Kennedy and commissioner Samaria this is a protection for the employee that if things get political which we're about to have a different commissioner up here if things get political and we have a change Changing of the Guard that that deters us from doing that if there's a clause in here that if it's for cause he doesn't get a severance to me it's standard practice that people get get in this level get a sance package it's a protection for him that things don't get political and we just change at a whim because he doesn't work out this is a temporary position if he doesn't work out you know how you change that you make the permanent higher that it's we we all indicated we want three to four month change over permanent hire if it doesn't work out that's how you change it over and you don't have a severance but to me it's a protection to keep things from getting political and let's just change them because we feel like it I don't have a an issue with a provision either I mean it's also part of my comparison table with the rest of the cities and the county that they all have about 20 weeks 16 weeks four months five months um Etc I understand also no the are they for interim or these are for the managers the managers that's what I'm saying it's not quite the same so for me it is and also the way I see it um because it is an interim position and this you know uh four six months at the most uh two months already are pro bono so in in a way worst case scenario something like that would happen we would uh be ready to take that impact and I and I want to know that it is a commitment commitment in both parts and I I I don't feel it's um I don't think it's a crazy thing to to ask um again not to your point that's on hired permanent position and Mr Mayor if I may for a moment sure please so just to clarify because I've heard a few members of the commission make the statement um that as far as the the firm of this agreement this this agreement would go retro retroactively excuse me back to November 8th of 2024 when Mr tilders was appointed as the intrum so there is a there is a retroactive compensation in this so you're right just just because I've heard several of you say that that it is not being compensated for two months that that's if the agreement is approved as is that's not correct okay thanks Brad I appreciate that um Mr attorney uh do we give contracts for for temporary employees that's number one and I still have a concern with um the two payouts that Mr CH just had at the last uh two jobs that they have um you know I'm concerned that for some reason we can get stuck as a you know as a community for the payout being very high so I mean I would like to if it's possible Mr show just could explain the last two jobs he had in the payouts because there could be good reasons why he got it thank you okay well I I I can I can't address Mr child's payouts in previous job so um that that I have no knowledge of and I can't address it as far as your first comment was your first question was what I'm sorry m commission do we give contracts to temporary employees well you don't give contracts to any employees in the village so the only the only contracts that are given out in your village is for Charter officers which in this case is the manager or an interim manager um and you have a contract for your for your village attorney The Firm that represents you as a village attorney there are no other contracts that I'm aware of for any Village employees um and and yeah that stand with this negot you know the negotiation if this was for done today for permanent position I have no problem with this negotiation going on but this is for a temporary position right now this is not for the permanent permanent we can discuss he can negotiate I have no problem with Mr chis saying he's worth even a million dollars I I respect that but this is for temporary position and I think we need to stick with what it's about temporary position rich can I just understand the position that you want to take are you taking the position that you're not approve you would you you're not in favor of any contract at all regardless of the terms well for for for temporary I can get rid of you if say tomorrow I don't want you because I have somebody else that I'm hired well he's going to be entit he's going to be entitled to some money and and I do have concerns about his last two jobs that he had what was the payouts for I mean it was a lot of money Mr Mayor if I will I I don't see how the payouts that Mr child receed from two previous jobs has any bearing on what we're talking about here we we here to discuss this contract not his previous contracts in life I understand I just want to understand if if Mr commissioner if you're if if it's your position that because he's a temporary employee and we don't give them contracts that you're not in favor of any contract then I understand that you kind of have a standing position that you do not approve that's fine um but you know as far as as far as the sever go um you know it's it's it's he does not entitled to it if he resigns he's not entitled to it if he does something where he's terminable for cause this is just termination if we all as a board um or as a commission excuse me choose to terminate him for not not for cause just because we don't want him here anymore so I I understand kind of what you're talking about I just want us to stay on track with it sounds to me and I don't want to put words your mou but it sounds to me you're not in favor of the 10 weeks is that right don't temporary employees should get it because we can I think commissioner Kennedy and correct me if I'm wrong brought it up that we can get rid of him if we have somebody else I'm just using that is that is an example well if we do that then we have to pay him seven SP well if we have a permanent position no have if we have somebody else that comes in there wants to be the temporary my my question is are we going forward to hire a permanent city manager if we okay so then you know he can be let go tomorrow and if we have if we go through the process and we get a we get a permanent city manager that's a problem for me but the term of the agreement is is until we have a permanent position if we have a permanent person come in for the job he he's not entitled to this to me we advertised for $100,000 we force advertis and maybe I'm wrong but I think we we we misled the public and we misled the candidates that put in that put in for this thing and I understand what you're saying just there's no way now see where at the 176 I've always said and I wasn't on the commission that Commissioners in the past have always said that city manager should not be paid $100,000 I'm glad that we are now considering I think the city manager should make the most money out of all the employees because they run the village and then we get the chief and stuff like that we have always in the past not we but Commissioners in the past have said oh we're pay we're paying city managers $100,000 we shouldn't be paying them that I'm glad to see that this commission has decided that that we need to pay this money and I'm not saying he's not worth it I think he is worth it if this was about the permanent city manager I would have no problem this is about the temporary city manager we advertised for $100,000 with no benefits he accepted along with the other 12 people there was no negotiation I mean he accepted it $100,000 I can't get off that I understand I understand um we we've come to a majority on on the amount the severance issue is before us right now um Al um can I just ask you very briefly please um without without considering whether we're going to approve the the sance issue or not um is there a number that you'd be willing to to come down from the 10 four would you be willing to take five um Mr Mayor with all due respect I think as you heard here tonight I could be terminated tomorrow right so there's already two votes against me I think I'm I'm going to give up a lot by even taking the interim position and taking my name off uh uh several several job opportunities so I think uh when I was looking at it 20 weeks was what statute uh provided um and I thought 10 10 weeks was was fair if if I'm if I'm fired just because of a decision I made which I thought was the right decision for the village you know I'm not we're not talking about being fired for cause we're being fired for for non cause but to be clear you just said it again the Florida statues do not provide for 20 weeks they provide for no more than 20 weeks you said it again they do not provide for anything we're not required to give it at all I just want to make sure we're always stating things very clearly right it provides no more than 20 weeks and I thought right right and taking that in consideration I thought no more than 10 weeks is fair I understand okay if this is the uh I I I don't know that this is the uh the issue to be to terminate the contract with uh I I understand the concern I read the statute the same way um but uh to move us forward um I'll say let's just be comfortable with that one and and move on I think the next one Mr Mayor commissioner Kennedy yep had had a question about 5c 5c so which is dealing with the vacation the vacation so I I to be quite honest and I I spoke with Mr childis about this while I was drafting it I kind of wrestled with how to do this because as commissioner Kennedy is is correctly stated Mr childr is is a salaried employee generally salary employees get paid their salary um they and whether or not they're present or not they get paid their salary um if they work 40 hours in one week they get the same salary if they work 60 hours the next week um so I know that um commissioner Kennedy when when we initially uh discussed the term the potential terms of this contract um had was very adamant about having some provision in there which indicated that Mr pis would not get paid if he was absent from the village was not working at The Village at the time and um so I had put that provision in and then Mr childis um when we were having the discussion requested the the opposite the reverse of that that well if he does work if he's not getting paid when he's on vacation as a salaried employee when he does work on Thanksgiving Day or New Year's Day or whatever the paid holiday might be and he does he does work that he would be compensated for um I recognize there's issues with how to calculate that what if he puts in two hours as opposed to an eight hour day I I get that but um that's why it was incorporated into the provision and again it's for your all consideration so I guess the question is then how how how do we do this so mayor if I could respond sure so and and I had hoped that uh I had reached out to all of you so to ask you if you were if there was any questions about the contract so we wouldn't be doing this and and have a 5 hour meeting but when I when I spoke to the Village attorney about that I had fully agreed that I wouldn't be compensated for Vaca for vacation time for sick time if I'm away from the office I'm not getting compensated for those but and and for holidays if I'm not working a holiday I don't get compensated for that holiday so there's holidays coming up this we this week there's three there's uh two days that are um are our holidays that uh I wouldn't be compensated for but if if there's an emergency on Friday and I'm working that emergency and I'm I'm being called out or I'm doing something or if I if there's emails I didn't get to and I come in the office on Friday I think I should be compensated for that day I'm away from my family that's all I'm asking for I'm asking to be treated fairly as every other employee is treated within the village okay U thanks Al um I mean I don't want to say it's contradictory um I don't know that it really is um but Brad can you just can based on on on what the manager has just um said I guess for being compensative for being in the office working is that your interpretation of what this section reads that's that's what it's intent to so and I guess an alternative to this just or to this provision would be to compens compensate him for for the same paid holidays that V Village employees are paid for so I and I think that's a middle ground if you if you're all looking for a middle ground and it would quite honestly be a lot easier to keep track of because again as I said I don't I don't know procedurally the payroll manager is going to have to deal with this I don't know procedurally how you keep track of a salaried employee and how many hours they work on a vacation day when they're not supposed to come in and what I mean by that is he works three hours during Thanksgiving on on Thursday comes into the office and works three hours are you paying him for three hours or you paying him for an entire day eight hour day and I I don't have the answer for that that's more procedural I was trying to I was trying to incorporate the commission's wishes in the agreement and then also incorporate Mr child's asks in the agreement so that you all as a as a as a colal body could look at it and and make determination as to what it's acceptable what's not acceptable okay no I appreciate that Brad thank you um you know the reason that I ask is because that's the way that it reads to me it seems that that's kind of reaching a middle ground so I think that that probably works but I'm I'm open to the commission on to hear what anyone else wants to to say about that he's getting everything else he's asking for he may as well just give him this to he's kind of getting it all to put it in context this is if you look over next six months this is only talking about six possible days that he could work sorry excuse me seven seven possible days we're not talking about a huge risk to the Village here for SE compensating for seven days so I think if if this is something that protects him and and compensates him and treats him fairly as an employee seven days over the next six months and that's we indicate that we want to you mean you count you're counting those I went ahead and counted all the holidays for the next six months oh yeah okay seven days in the next six months and that's indicate we want to be transitioned to a permanent manager so six months seven days that's the risk to the Village here for this agreement but we're not compensating him when he's on his uh vacation time which you have already told us about I already agreed to that and said yes here's my vacation days I'm not going to be compensated here's if I call in sick I'm not going to be compensated I agree to that how many days were was that um I'll uh if you remember there was three weeks in uh April yes there was a week in December and I think another 10 days in May Okay so until May should you you stay with us until May all of those all that time would not be compens that's correct that's correct that's the way that's the way the agreement readed right not be compensated for any stick time vacation time no no sorry go ahead I didn't want you didn't and he would not be compensated for vacation time illness or any other circumstances that would keep him out of the village of a total of around five weeks but we would have to pay for the seven days if he works coming up if he work if you were to work those days correct that's right or in in case of an emergency if you had to come or the your village attorneys is asking for a compromise yeah which I I I full well I'm just making a suggestion I'm not asking I'm just making a suggestion of a compromise if if you all stuck stuck on this provision um this this provision does yeah I I'll just leave it that it doesn't well I should say it doesn't apply to H it doesn't apply to weekends if that's what you're all considering we're thinking it's only those days that are designated as paid holidays for the rest of your employees that Mr Childers would be paid would be compensated for if you would to work one of those paid holidays so those are when your employees are getting paid but they are not at work got it and then the issue will be how we track this in a way that it's transparent and at the same time follows through with the contract yeah I I that's a procedural matter for your payroll people to to decide how how to keep track of that we the agreement puts their onus on Mr childis to notify the um the mayor the payroll manager and copy the commission of any absence he has due to Vacation illness or any other circumstances or for any work he performs during paid holiday so because there was no other the only other way to track it would be by the village Clerk and I think it's kind of an honorous um position to put the clerk in where she's keeping track of her boss's time so that's why that's why it's worded the way it is all right what are you thinking no yeah I was I mean I'm I'm trying to understand for me we talk all the time about how this is a 247 job that's what you say so my question would be if today a working day and you have to stay until midnight you're not getting pay from 6:00 p.m. until midnight because you're left early um on a Saturday if you were to come on a Saturday and work you're not getting paid um I think you're given more than what you're taken with the provision knowing that you're going to be away for five week weeks and that you're asking to be compensated in case you come seven days so math only I'm fine with it processes um maybe just put them through and bring it to the commission on the next meeting so we know how they are tracked that's it for me was that a yes for me okay and then I think I may Mr Mayor yes please Brad I think the last permission um I'm sorry section that um commissioner Kennedy had brought up as we're working back was section four the terms of conditions shall pay the sorry the shall pay the 10 the 10 business days after the appointment of the permanent manager um go ahead sorry I didn't this was something that Mr childr had brought up that there should be that he was suggesting that there would be some transition period where if if a new new permanent manager somebody other than Mr Childers takes the position that Mr Childers can get them up and running over period of time which was 10 business days so that they're able to take over the Reigns and move forward um and Mr childis um wanted to be compensated for those transition days so we can we can put that is a May um we can take out that sentence Al together and it's just an ask at the end of the contract so the contract terminates and there can be an ask where where you know you ask Mr chers to stay for a transition period and agree to pay him at that time or I can put the word may or I could put at the discretion what I could do is say at the discretion of the commission um Mr Childers um maybe May partake and be compensated or I'll have to think how to word it but I can make it discre where the village has to make the decision as to whether he stays for the transition period and be compensated as opposed to it being required but in all fairness I will say that some type of transition period would be a very good idea yes so I I'm sorry except when they're not well so except when the transition period is not a good idea so I turns out to have been a bad idea so I I tend to and this is not this this isn't doesn't speak to to how it may unfold with you Al but I I tend to to to kind of side um with commissioner Kennedy on this that we make it make it discretionary if you so choose um at the request at our request or if you so choose to to kind of like you said Brad kind of make this discretionary then we can have that 10day overlap and and and we can provide for payment for those 10 days but if let's say we we pick a permanent and you know Al you come to us and say you know I don't really want to provide that overlap or i' prefer to just go now we say you know what that just makes sense just go um you know we'll we'll transition however however we see fit um I think discretion probably is easier I think this the way that I kind of read this is it locks you in and it locks Us in so it kind of locks everybody in that when we pick a permanent manager assuming it is not is not Al you know you you're required to stick around and you know I I think that that kind of speaks to to commissioner Kennedy's point so I'm more in favor of a discretion where we can kind of decide together if if you'd like to stay on for 10 days to to help us transition that's great if you don't choose to then then that's fine too and Mr Mayor sure sorry if I may the intent was to lock him in so that you had a transition period as opposed to um M or not just Mr Children anybody who would be inum just saying for lack of better terms I'm out the door have a nice day go run with it no I that indent servitude of you got to stay regardless of whether you want to leave you know I don't I don't know how how great that might work out I'm not saying that that's where we're headed by any means don't get me wrong but I'm just saying I in the event that that comes up you know I don't want everyone to have to be stuck in a position where that's untenable I I will I will draft it um so that the the decision for for the the decision to have the int manager remain for the transition period will that be at the discretion of the commission's asking and and if accepted by the in manager he will be compensated for the 10-day period of transition so something like that sounds fine to me but I'm certainly interested in listening to the rest of the commission before you just go and change it no I I get it I'm just proposing it I I understand yeah so I was just uh for me so the transition periods should be a must just for the purpose of the history of what's been going on the files everything that needs to happen when it you go from one hand to the other um but I do understand it could happen in not very Amic terms and at that point it's it's more of a it could be more of an issue so I am I think that's a fair point to make uh if we were to the side um you know that we don't need it then we can uh use that uh in our favor now on that side it allows for what I understood Brad for the manager to say well I don't want to stay either they could do that anyway yeah require them to stay true true this just gives us the I'm sorry can't require them to stay it just gives us the ability to say we'd like you to stay or not yeah and quite frankly we could think that's a or a fair point to bring yes or we could take that last sentence out completely and that's something you can discuss with the manager at that time yeah yeah so I I'll leave that to I'll leave that to you all if you want me to make it discretionary or do you just want to remove that last sentence starting from it is the intent right to is or new position and just strike it through the agreement now for me it's it's vitally important that we have that transition period in there I think making a discretionary is a good compromise uh as long as that all parties are in agreeable to that 10day transition period but it to me it's vitally important that we have that so I want to keep it in there is that consensus I think yeah I think it I think we should have it at our disposal at our choice no I'm not suggesting we get rid of it all together I'm just saying we need to control that agree yeah I think I think discretionary um Brad would be preferable very well I just simp I thought it was as simple as change the word shell to May isn't it that simple well if we I think if we just change shell to May then we could require him to stay and we don't have to pay him is that am I am I not reading that correctly Brad yeah it could be interpreted that way I'll I'll clean it up so that it mirrrors the commission's intent understood I thanks Brad I I did have one additional question about the term portion I just want to be sure because I said this earlier um that the term uh that section six is not triggered um by the transition to a permanent manager is that correct the termination it does not no the termination and Severance does not but um now that you're saying that I'm also going to have to rewrite that have to I'm going to have to do a little word smithing on the whole section four I understand I just want I just wanted to be I I like because I said this before and I just want to be very clear that the transition to a permanent managers doesn't trigger um uh the the severance Clauses it does not be it does not because the agreement itself terminates so you're not terminating you're not terminating the manager upon the hiring of a permanent manager the agreement itself terminates and by virtue of the agreement terminating there's no more there's no more responsibilities of either party and just so I'm clear as well because I said this is two and I don't want to I don't want to jump to to any type of legal conclusions a resignation uh doesn't also trigger that the the sance is that correct it does not as a matter of fact I think there's a what about a retirement I mean I know that retirement and resignation are similar but I think they have a legally separate interpretation or or definition well I mean I don't know how he would retire he's not eligible he has no benefits so he's not eligible for retirement within the village he has no retirement so the only way he the only way he could voluntarily separate from the village on his own accord would be to put you on notice that you're he's terminating his agreement gotcha okay just wanted to be very clear um those are the questions that I had I'm I'll open up to any any other Commissioners that had any any other questions about the the agreement as it's drafted no no no okay um all right so then I guess Brad subject to some of the additional edits you're going to make um I think we I think we have a majority agreement on the approvement sorry I was muted Mr Mayor you need a motion and a and a second and a vote on do we have a motion to approve the contract as it shall be amended by the attorney motion to approve the contract as amended second that okay all in favor I I sure is that saying that we're going to be giving them the 176,000 or we're just saying that's for the contract well that's just for the that's just for the term of the interim position correct yes yes okay I'm a no included yes correct for the in I'm not willing to pay 176,000 okay I'm a know as well okay and I'm a yes um okay so uh having concluded the uh uh the agreement um uh did we want to I know this I guess this technically isn't uh on the discussion but it's it's it's related to this and we talked about it about the Head Hunter for the permanent position did we want to just check in on the status of that Madam clerk very quickly before we uh before we go to adjournment well the attorney and I have not formally met but I know of two firms that I've reached out to just to get a proposal kind of like I haven't received either yet because I was going to have it on the December 3D agenda okay so I and I I found there's three that I'm familiar with in South Florida that um that do this do this type of um recruit recting I'll get with the clerk um tomorrow we'll compare notes and we'll get those proposals maybe we'll have an update on the clerk or the attorney's uh report for next week's meeting on that item you'll have a combined one yeah but yes you will and then we're hoping to be able to make pres have these um these these two or three um firms make presentations your January meeting you could select one of those firms to move forward and then we'll um we can move forward with the selection Pro with the advertising selection process okay well I'll be looking forward to uh to the update uh at our our regular commission meeting then um okay so having concluded our discussion item for the evening uh do we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all in favor I I I thanks everyone have a good evening