six o'clock on Tuesday March 5th thank you madam clerk would you please call the rooll for us mayor gr here vice mayor Kennedy here commissioner Amsler here commissioner hollan commissioner Gonzalez Mr may you have a quorum let's go ahead and do the Pledge of Allegiance please all right so let's go ahead and move on to our additions deletions and withdrawals and uh I'll ask commission to uh to offer any changes to the agenda before we move forward I have a couple of things if I may sure um first of all we were to have a discussion tonight about our meeting with Miami D counter Miami Dade County mayor cabba next month and that I thought that was going to be on the agenda tonight as a discussion um so I think we need to add that because she's here a month from now and we were going to talk about what we wanted to discuss with her we were all to bring our ideas and have a discuss this is the last time we're meeting before she's here right why don't we move that to the first item for old business if um and then we have a couple of things on we have a big meeting tonight and there's some meaty things on here that I think might turn into bigger discussions and we have some items down there under uh uh new business that I think Merit being lifted up so if you guys want to consider moving up 13A as an apple be as in boy d as and dog I know there's some people here that want to hear us discuss these things so bump them up above um above old business so we make sure we get to them I don't think we're going to get through this agenda tonight and then there was an item on last month's agenda a hardship review that didn't roll over and I didn't know what it was so I just wondered if someone purposely took that off yeah we removed it until information so those are my suggestions if we are moving up uh 13d I would suggest I would recommend and request doing that first so that we can get the police department in and out yeah 13d okay since joining us um yeah I certainly agree on 13 a b and c above old business since um since they seem relevant um I have one more yeah go ahead if I could move my item 12d it's in discussion all business I think it's um relevant that we put it after the uh 13A because it's sort of in the same lines of a topic is it 12d you said right so it's 12d and we would put it after 13A I think it will tie in nicely yeah to 13A okay all right um so did we I'm sorry did we say 13d the the police is that's going to be ahead of the CIP right because it could be part of that discussion is that what you said Chris we should do 13A I'm sorry 13d prior to anything else prior to the other ones yes I agree okay okay all right so then the order that I have at least for this section would be 13d 13A and 12d kind of as a conjoin then 13B and c and then that would move us into 12 which would start with the the update for the meeting with the county mayor before we move into the remaining items so that's that's what I have um there was a question I know that was raised about one of the uh one of the consent agenda items just move up consent sorry first ordinance excuse me 10 a okay never mind so um all right do I have a motion to approve the agenda as it's been amended motion to approve what you said second okay all in favor I all right we will move forward with it as it has been amended we've taken care of our presentations at the earlier conference so let's go ahead and go straight to item six our public comment um we'll start with people here in the law cabin um please provide us with your name and address uh the public comment is 3 minutes and once we're finished in here we will move to zoom so anyone feel free to go ahead and get it started Barbara CLE uh 777 Northeast 111 Street uh the first thing I'd like to speak to is this about the Strategic plan uh you I don't know where the figures came from but you said you had about $400,000 and you're trying to find different projects how to assign them and I really think um like all of us we start the village starts projects and then they kind of stop and we lose track of them and then years go by and they kind of get left behind um I think you need to think about the most important things for this Village and right now J the Public Works building the me the equipment is not protected we're going to lose equipment and that should be something that because it looks like it had already been budgeted for money had been allocated I don't know why the pro maybe the process has started but we're going to be in the rainy season soon it's going to only get worse the second thing is Log Cabin I saw that there was something about a roof that it needs a new roof I assume that's because something's leaking something's not right we spent a million dollars having this building renovated we're heading towards the summer it before you turn around it's going to be hurricane season this should be addressed this building is also not in compliance with code for handicap and the lighting this is a code requirement from the time this building was renovated The Village was told that it was not in compliance The Village came back but we didn't have enough money this is where you should start spending the money because you don't know how much this is going to cost the same thing for the Public Works building there's $120,000 allocated they when we we built the main building there was remediation because of the soil there's a lot of things that can go wrong so start funding those things the other thing the roads the evaluation that is really important because it'll probably lead into getting grants you'll also know what conditions the roads are in and maybe be able to start with the worst roads first um I was looking at the budget and I haven't been looking at a lot of things for a while but Amy Raymond had um been pushing for park benches it's probably two years ago with working with Park and Parkways we made a recommendation to the commission they allocated $5,000 and from what I understand we have benches that are sitting in public works because she was told there's no money for the installation your budget has no budget for those benches they're going to need concrete bases there's going to be a certain amount of labor materials not a lot but this would be a project to finish get it out there instead of having these benches sitting there for another three years and that is time okay I'd also like to just thank Amy for getting the group together about the traffic situation if it wasn't for these residents honestly nothing would be getting done and they should have received credit from the village manager would have been nice that he acknowledged Beyond residents did that thank you thank you Gary Happ residing at the same place Barbara does um just like to underscore something Barbara said that's kind of been something I've been concerned about for many years and that is the lighting around the Log Cabin it is a code violation it is a safety issue and it's been acknowledged and it's been Amplified and that only makes it worse it is a liability and it's very easy to put it out of your mind until somebody has an accident the main reason I wanted to talk was about the meeting last week and the manager's evaluation first I like to say I really commend the commission for adopting a process and a format and following it and I thought that was very well done two parts I don't like is coming into this meeting and seeing the entire staff with section of Public Works maybe they aren't as happy as everybody else but when you have a failen of police officers standing against the wall that's nothing but intimidating then you have the whole Code Department here that's a small community this isn't like addressing the County Commission where you're somewhat Anonymous everybody knows everybody here so what are you gonna say you make a comment about the police or code no at the very least they should have been excused or better yet if the Department's heads wanted to come in and say they were happy fine it's nice to know that the staff is happy that is an important part of it but this is almost designed as intimidation to have the entire staff here the part to me that was particularly appalling was the end of the meeting with this attack from the village manager on commissioner Kennedy I I I mean it was shocking in any other world an employee who spoke their employer like that would be fired on the spot and I really don't think I saw the reaction from the commission that I would have expected when something like that occurred I think that's something you should very much keep in mind moving forward I found that again shocking and extremely distasteful and thank you Alexander Bernhard 1015 Northeast 120th Street uh just kind of quickly wanted to touch on two topics one of which was Street lighting um I know that uh that's something that's been brought up a couple of times um and it's not 100% clear how much control we do have over that with FPL it's sort of an agreement we have with them but um I've seen what happened in other parts of Miami Dade with the way that lighting turns out to be like just you know like sunlight in the middle of the night and that's one of the things that really sets our village apart we need to be on top of that because if we're just going to leave it to fpl to come in here they have changed a couple of the street lights to LED and they're actually not bad they're like warm white LED they're not too bad but we should definitely be on top of that with FPL the other thing uh in terms of traffic calming I was very happy to hear that um the group got together and they discovered this um interlocal agreement uh that allows us to have control over traffic calming measures I'm 1,000% for that please let's do that you know as soon as possible wasting this $14,000 or whatever it was in the traffic study that's going to then lead to another $200,000 for a different thing whatever like let's get all that out and just start doing things people are going to get hurt I mean and by the way I've brought this up several times a lot of the infractions and I'm sure the police officers will agree as well are actual residents here in the village so we like to say that it's like people outside trying to cut through it's Val it's people here in the village that are doing this so you know people need to be held um accountable that are actual residents as well I know that the officers do that and they don't have any kind of you know policy in place to let people off the hook and I'm glad to know that that's the case but if we can adopt whatever ordinance is necessary to have this Independence and be able to do the traffic uh calming measures ourselves and handle it all internally by all means let's do it hi my name is Dan Ward I'm a long time long-term res resident here 25 years at 959 Northeast 115 Street I also happen to be a landlord of a couple duplexes here in biscane park so I'm going to bring up something that I've been dealing with since maybe the last 10 years since I purchased these duplex and been dealing with them um one of the things that was in code that of and on gets uh enforced is that you know the city Village of biscan Park uh expects us to buy a permit to you know rent these places H I understand that but then they want to have a annual inspection and expect us to pay for that and uh I thought well you know this just as really abusive to my tenants who all have jobs it's very difficult to live in Miami as you know and to have a stranger come in and start probing around in your apartment for whatever reason they don't care you know um and so I started researching it and I found well there are opinions here in Florida from State Attorneys we have two opinions let's say this is against the Fourth Amendment you can't do that so I thought well should I uh should I make it stink about this or you know am I just trying to save the $95 per unit which ultimately goes to the tenants who are struggling as it is and I'm thinking well you know I'm upset by politics like everybody is and I think it's time in these areas if I don't stand up for my tenants and my rights then who's going to you know am I going supposed to sit back and wait for other people to make these decisions so I'd like to bring this up I've actually started writing a letter but I'm you know not the sharpest tool in the shed so it's was taking me a while to write a letter I'm going to send it all to you guys and you at least you know who I am but what I'd like to do is have this removed from the code it's just it it can't be there and of course talking to I do have some friends you know some people like me my wife I'm working on but um other people like me and I talk to landlords and of course they're not happy with this but most of them cower out of it doing anything because it's the code and who wants to upset the code because maybe they're going to come you know lurking around the corner but you know think about the tennis ultimately they have to pay whatever we as landlords had to pay and to give up a day of work dealing with their kids or whatever and to have a stranger come in and sure code enforcement they're probably wonderful beautiful people but who knows five years from now maybe we have an underwear sniffer that comes in you know and who knows you know there's there's no telling what the future holds but the the people that set this country up knew that whatever you set up and the government's always going to try to uh creep into more and more areas of your life and so they said okay well your residence whether it's you know a rented or whether you own it is yours right if if the government thinks it's so important to go into your property they can easily go and get a warrant and that's all if uh if there's something going on and the city's concerned they'll get a warrant that is time thank you very much I'll not address that one Janie Anderson 11905 Northeast 11th Place agenda item 12a discussion on increasing manager authority to obtain goods and services that ordinance that goes along with that agenda item apparently was enacted first in 2005 and updated in 2010 which which means it's lived through every manager this Village has ever had so I'm I'm kind of left the question why now why has it become an issue and my concern is with this manager's newness not just to biscane park but to the area the whole South Florida and the smallness of our budget it just doesn't oh and considering possible longterm unforeseen consequences it just doesn't seem a appropriate to loosen the fiscal oversight uh the interlocal agreement traffic a big thank you goes to every single resident who got together and who really pushed for this without their energy and without their sticking to things I'm not sure we I don't think we'd be where we are thank you to the commission but really thank you to Art and Mac who had to persevere through a prior Commission and get push back from at least a couple of members of that commission one of whom is running for office again saying we had no traffic issues but they push through and I thank you guys for that Max item on updating meeting procedures you know residents shouldn't have to go to the calendar on a regular frequent basis in hopes that well gee maybe if something important comes up I'm going to see it and I'm going to know about a meeting or whatever else and so often those things are posted last minute things are posted incorrectly I mean I looked at the agenda and tonight's agenda says manager and village department reports will be added by March 4th well maybe they were added after 5:30 because when I checked earlier they still weren't there and so often that's the way there's an error there's a last minute thing we if we have email blast capabilities and we have social media accounts we need to use them not just starting this past week but continually where you get in trouble is when people don't know what's happening when they can't get involved because they simply don't know about it and I I don't think it's too much to expect the village to do more than just the bare legal requirement as far as the landlord permit I would ask all of you please to do your due diligence if you have concerns please research the backstory reach out to code reach out to anyone who was around when that ordinance was first enacted so that you'll have all your facts on it thanks good evening David Raymond 11520 Northeast 9th Avenue um like others I'd like to thank the residents who um voice their concerns about all of the traffic issues here and I'd like to thank the commission and everybody else um who who been trying to uh remedy that and for finding the local agreement I think Jonathan and our Comm one of our uh commission hopefuls Ryan I think farad did that out I know that probably wasn't easy where were you guys three years ago I don't know when that came out but thank you for finding it we're very appreciative um and I and I completely support that related I know there's a a request well not I shouldn't say a request it was a request from the commission to the chief for uh the cost of additional officers I fully support that that thank you and I also want to thank the chief and and deputy chief steel because there's been a really a great presence out there of late we've seen police officers all over the place um and I think it's wonderful thank you uh so two quick things building department privatized my my big concern with that is that I mean this as a complete compliment Linda Dylan but I think you are the have the holder of institutional knowledge at Town Hall so I don't know if we get rid of the building department and building official here who do we have left kind of on the inside that would be my concern I don't know if Gage and his committee at planning and zoning are good with that or not but I'll I'll leave that to them um finally I am organizing a candidate Forum um the elections coming up on the 9th I don't believe that there's early voting for that but we're going to try to have a a forum I put something out on next door asking if a Saturday was better for this or a week night uh results are sort of mixed at this point about half and half a little leaning a little more toward the Saturday um I've spoken to the candidates and um by the way the the candidate information is not posted on the website I emailed the clerk about that a few days ago but from what I've I've spoken to uh three of them Mr Easton has has withdrawn and I guess he came to a census before before you all did and um but I I want to be able to pull this off with the of if I could The Log Cabin which is why I'm talking to you about this now if you if it were possible for you to wave the fees for us to use a log cabin for such an event and if so I don't know what the situation might be with having that taped we're going to have presentations by each of the three candidates and then everybody's kind of going to break off and have individual areas where they can have questions we were we've talked about different formats not everybody agreed to the debate format some people found that a bit redundant Everybody by the time you get to the last person in line answering the question you've heard it you know so um that's what we'd like to do if I could get the commission's consent to wave the fee for that and if I could work with staff to see what they are capable of or not what they're allowed to do I should say I'm not sure what they're allowed to do thank you the date um well we're looking right now at the 16th or if if I may a weekday preceding that or following that um that calendar for the week before that is completely booked with Mission meetings that the week of the 16th I think um is or the week before that I think is completely booked up with meetings so the week after whichever we are over time thank you take a look hi good evening everyone Gage Chong 1029 Northeast 114 Street uh a couple things real quickly first of all is there a per just a quick question is there permission for somebody to deliver these and throw these on our front yards I'm just curious because to me it's litter and I'm just curious if there's actually a process for approval for for this for the um the one that we get from Miami Shores the Egret like it's just garbage that's thrown in our front yard anyway uh interlocal group uh agreement that sounds great my only question be is what are we giving up for that agreement is there a downsize are we now going to be charged with having to maintain our roads or there's usually a flip side to something that's good so I'd be I'd be curious to hear that that part of it um the I'm really speaking tonight is regarding the Outsourcing of the um the um the building official or the the the um the the person in our office um have a real issue with it I really think that this is something that we should keep inhouse we should have an employee who is in charge who is and like David said and I he used the word I was going to use institutional knowledge um the one person that's that's the longest serving in the village hall is Linda Dylan and she's a volunteer I mean we really should have somebody that is a village employee that is looking out for the village that our residents get to know when they come in they they are um somebody that um that remembers that there's a permit that they that this person did this once when we let it all go it's going to become outsourced and then that that new person could be transferred out and we could end up just having a a f a bunch of different people one after the other um a village employee is very uh important I understand we also want to change our system that we paid a lot of money to for recently to the cap system so what happens if we switch all our files over to cap and then a year or two from now we we break up with cap does that mean all those files go away with cap and how do we get them back in house um it's just it doesn't seem like it's really a beneficial thing we all remember how it went with Waste Pro we outsourced the Waste Pro and the next thing you know they're threatening to to jack up our rates and not collect our trash and we're being held hostage by a corporation we we are a small community we're not some big company or um city like Miami Beach or something like that where a cap agre agreement might work because it's such a large organization we really need somebody that is here in the village that um that is looking out for us and if it all is this just to save money $10,000 whatever it is then don't have another one of these workshops and another one of these studies you know it's just it doesn't seem like the long-term effect of this has really been thought out and what would happened um when cap leaves and when our agreement with cap is over and and um we're stuck in a Lurch because all of a sudden everybody in the village just left all the village Halls gone and there's nobody there that remembers um what it was like a year ago so anyway thank you very much good evening Ryan Huntington 744 Northeast 119 Street I want to thank the residents as well for pushing to this traffic issue to bring it to the Forefront thank the commission for bringing the interlocal agreements before them tonight I hope that the village attorney has all the answers for us tonight we know what we can and cannot do whether or not a traffic study is needed what what we need to do to move forward if we do leave here of questions tonight I hope those are questions we asked for mayor Cavin next month she was at the meeting of the County Commission passed this resolution the County Commissioners were very specific they did not want a traffic study to be done to burden a small municipality to put in a speed bump so I hope those questions if we leave here with questions tonight they're asked of Mayor cin next month the flip side of that coin is right now on your CIP budget you have no funds for traffic mitigation if we can't do anything if there's not funds on a line item we have to fund that project to be able to do anything the inter local agreement means nothing if there's no dollars in the bank account want to touch on CIP as well for roads we're six months away from our 2025 budget where we have $200,000 to spend on roads we have no current plan where we're going to spend those $200,000 I think a a road study now at this point would be great so that way when we have 2025 $200,000 ready to go we have a plan in place and we're not six months into fiscal 2025 trying to figure out where we're going to spend those dollars thank you have a permission to uh break procedure and just say a couple of quick words okay um one I'd like to underscore what agage said about the village clerk I think that's essential very very important function and it does seem to be somebody that is invested in the community and working with the community the other thing uh with that in mind I believe that you were supposed to get something back from the village manager about the cost involved of having that in-house versus uh Outsourcing it and I I I believe that you had asked for that specific information thank you okay if we have no more comment inside the laog cabin we'll go ahead and turn it over to our Zoom attendees nobody in Zoom okay okay well thank you everyone that came up and mayor we had one hand raised on Zoom sure okay go ahead okay can you guys hear me yes we can okay um Sally Bar 11501 Northeast 11th Place just a very quick comment about what Gage said I just want to say that I agree with him totally um about what he was saying it's very important to have someone inside the village hall and not just Outsource everything because things can change so quickly so I just wanted to say I agree with that totally thank you nothing more okay all right great thank you everyone Who provided public comments for us uh on our our items um very quickly uh before we move to reports just a a question for the commission U we have a request to wave the The Log Cabin fee for a candidate event um address that now if uh that's all right with everyone I'd be in favor go ahead yeah please so I don't have some of the institutional knowledge but the other circumstances you wave that fee I can't hear you br what other circumstances have you waved that fee because events when the boards have come to us and put on events here they'll come and ask to wave the fee for it it seems prior and we've waved the fee before for um for the same thing um not specifically here at the I just want to make sure that criteria we've done that before yeah okay thank you so um I think it's fine I think it's important I think it's maybe one of the only venues people get up here and get a chance so um sounds like we have a consensus to go ahead and wave the fee yes great okay um okay do we have any um commission reply to comments at this time with the understanding of person one just very quickly I was going to ask to do that so thank you and also to Dan Ward if you could send that information I would like to take a look at that please thanks we're going to discuss all of this a lot yes a lot of these uh will come up with these items that we've moved UPF front we'll be talking about them very shortly great I have uh one very quick item sure go ahead um apparently I was a little late in uh the idea to email Bradley about the proper procedure towards putting forward you know proposing an ordinance or a resolution as you know I'm very new to this and by the time I figure it out I'll be gone but maybe it'll serve me later when I come back which I don't know if that's definitely happening in April undecided about November but having spent an hour with my daughter last night on her math homework doesn't seem like it's likely at this point might have to wait a few more things before I really have the time to devote to what the village deserves and devote the time that it requires but the one thing I wanted to put out there just as kind of a um just a plant the seed I know because Chris did respond appropriately we wanted all of our ideas fleshed out and be better prepared so that we don't discuss things off the cuff but um because of the comments that we've heard about budgetary concerns because of the concerns we've heard about wanting to hire more officers and the cost that will go with that or the cost that will go with some of the other things that are kind of in a discretionary place right now I wanted to just plant the seed of an idea of working with some of the people on this stas to try and put together uh uh some some verbiage towards a a resolution to allow the village of bis G Park to utilize debt in extremely limited circumstances obviously I don't want to read about us in the news 10 years from now that we overspent did a bunch of crazy crap and now we're broke and we're you know the laughing stock of Comedy Central and everyone else um but you know I'm far from a financial genius I have an MBA I've been working in Corporate America for 20 something years paying cash for a building is pretty ridiculous in my opinion that's something that can be amortized that's something that can be spread out now this this is a preab building it's not a concrete building if if I understand this correctly so it's probably not going to have a 35 or 39e life but even if it only has a 20-year life means you're not paying $120,000 out of your pocket for something that you are legally able to amortize over a much longer period of time and since we have short-term concerns particularly with traffic and and some other things that folks have mentioned I think we need to revisit this idea and maybe be very specific about what we would utilize it for just looking at our Capital Improvement plan three things jump off the page immediately the building and the two $100,000 generators which if you look at the budget we're essentially amortising it anyway just under a leas to own program we're just calling it something else it's essentially debt U so I would like to follow up I mean I I I don't want to violate sunite law so I didn't want to reach out at the last in the 11th hour but I would greatly appreciate it if at some point before the next meeting I can work with some of the folks up here to try and make this something that we can talk about appropriately formally if it has to be put to a vote we put it to a vote because I think just amortizing those three things would free up um just just by way of example let's just say instead of a 39-year uh uh term it's it's a 20-year term for this pre-fabricated building which I think is is is probably a safe assumption instead of paying $120,000 we would be paying uh um be paying 10 we'd be paying a fair amount of Interest over time that's typical of any sort of mortgage situation if we were to move the generators to a five-year life instead of paying $200,000 in let's call it year one we'd be paying 47 so we're freeing up ball park just back of napkin math about $300,000 in one year that gives us a lot of leeway to do a lot of things to a lot of roads and a lot of other things that we think are right now nice to have in are you know in a big bucket of unobtanium so just planting that seed out there um Mr Mayor ma whoever wants to work with me on this please reach out u i I'm happy to help formalize this and hopefully put it to a vote thank you that sounds like something we might you could include in the CIP conversation that we're going to have here later in the meeting it's on the agenda so we can certainly discuss it then I didn't want to make it a formal discussion item because the meeting's already pretty dense just make it part of that discussion so Mr Mayor if I may just commissioner Collins's comment um certainly it's something that you you all can discuss but um you all collegiately or collectively in any form can't reach out privately to discuss that matter that would be a violation of sun right of course that would have to either be done during I think if we started public meeting or right in the manner which been suggested that it's part of that discussion we can maybe Broach a subject then and see if there's that's where I was confused like I obviously I can't work with one or two people on this St and I I don't want to wait till an actual meeting so do it there could be there could be Workshop could be a special meeting okay during CIP has to be a publicly if you're meeting with any other Commissioners to discuss right business you would have to meet publicly agreed I I would want the finance director there even if it costs us public has to be a noticed didn't public has of course yeah this I mean I'm sure there are some people who who don't like debt I hate debt I have an American Express card I pay it every month my only debt is my student loans and my mortgage that's it so I don't want us to be carrying a lot of debt but a building come on why don't we take a look at it and bring it up for discussion when we get to CIP and then I would encourage you and and Brad to get together um post meeting to talk about it great thanks okay so um let's go ahead and move into our reports uh and we can start with uh with our manager report if if you'd like to get us Started Mr manager yeah absolutely there are just a couple things I wanted to bring up tonight um the first is I believe you're all the commission is all aware that we have a member of our Police Department assigned to a federal task force as part of that assignment we pay the wages we pay the benefits but we also receive a portion of any seizures that they make um as as or because of that relationship rather we have two incoming uh checks one is going to be for approximately $300,000 the next one is going to be approximately $200,000 and then the third is going to be roughly $155,000 so these are funds that are going to be coming to the police department specifically um these funds have to be used on police things so that can be buildings equipment Vehicles supplies IT services things like that the only thing they cannot be used on is labor so they can't replace a salary for example the way this is going to benefit the village is that's essentially half a million dollars um some of it I'm going to recommend using for some things that the police department needs some of it we would be able to offset some of those costs I just mentioned which means we don't have to take funds from our general fund to pay for vehicle leases for example um that's going to free up some funds we go ahead discussion about how you put on doing that um the chief these are federal shared funds Justice or treasury they're funds from the Department of Justice okay so if they Justice funds there is a guide to Equitable sharing that's that's out by both the treasury and and the Department of Justice which lays out specific uses for permissible uses for those funds but one of the main premises of of being able to accept those funds is you cannot surl you cannot use those funds toplant your budget and and and when I talk about the budget I'm talking about the budget of the village so and what the justice and the Treasury Department do when they look at these funds is they take a macroo approach so for instance if the if the police department's budget I'm just throwing out a number is $100,000 a year and you get $50,000 in shared funds which is what the funds are called you cannot reduce the police department's budget by $50,000 that would be surlan and uh if you do that you can if you do it and you're audited um the ramification ations are pretty severe as far as you must pay back the money there there can be penalties there also can prevent you for a period of time of of receiving any shared funds C can you does that mean that you have to spread the funds kind of Prada in proportion to where the budget currently exists because otherwise you could be seen as moving things it's supposed to be a supplement to the police department's budget not a replacement of their budget oh just the police department it only yeah there's only as a matter of fact let's say for instance just to get to further explain it let's say you decided to build a a building here in the village to house the police department and let's say you also wanted to make it a city hall to house commissioner's offices the manager's office something of that effect you could not use the total amount of shared funds to build that building you would have to determine okay it's a it's a x number square feet this is how many square feet are going to be for police this is how many square feet for the village Village personel and you would have to only use that portion of the pr Fair shares excuse me or costs and funds that would go towards the police use of that building or that piece of equipment and Brad what period of time do we have to spend that money and can we can it roll over to following years if we don't have a need for it now how long can we hang on to it within their budget there is there is time limits I can't remember off the top of my head I don't know if the chief remembers it's been a while since I've looked at that guide there are some time limits but they're pretty lengthy we I'd like to have a conversation with you offline that's contradictory from what from the info I received from DHS so I just want to make sure that we're on the same page and I'm understanding correctly yeah because we had I've had couple conversations with DHS and I just want to make sure that then then we're uh we're on the same page um regardless um that's half a million dollars plus coming into the police department um because we have um our member assigned to the task force um there are two other things to mention one is um the 20 vehicles and two speed sign trailers that we just had donated from the mikasuki Tribal Police Department um those vehicles are currently over at um sitting over at Public Works um most of the vehicles except for one are over 100,000 miles um but they all most of them have um significant equipment inside things like uh radar systems laptop stands um gun racks things like that equipment that that we can use um some of the vehicles are definitely nice enough for us to be able to turn around and use internally whether it's for police or code um so we're planning on doing that but uh that was again 20 vehicles coming from mikasuki I'll be coming to the commission at the next meeting with a a request for an official thanks um for the tribal Elders who approve this um in addition to that um we are still expecting something coming to us from the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office in the way of vehicles we don't know what that's going to look like yet um we're waiting for them to get their new vehicles um at which point we'll be able to take a look at what's coming our way so as i' had mentioned um previously we're essentially looking at being able to um upgrade our Fleet right now we have I believe it's 13 Vehicles older than six years um that are killing us in maintenance through these two donations and some of the processes we're going to take in in inside um we're going to be able to upgrade our Fleet to hopefully nothing less than 6 years old with one exception um and decrease our maintenance cost significantly so I just want to shout out uh or give a kudos to the police department um our chief has been working on the Palm Beach County stuff for months now um and the mikasuki donation came as a direct result of deputy chief steel and his connections um at the leadership class that he's taking Chris may ask you if followup question to the uh two items the one is the money that's coming in and then the uh vehicles that you got can the money be spent to get those vehicles that you're going to use upgraded given that they're not in the current budget they were donations so I'm gonna those are new items I'm not going to answer that because the information that the attorney and I have is different and I want to make sure that I get that information correct before answering that question so you'll we'll hear more about that in the future correct but the vehicles that we may load we'll probably sell right is that the plan and make some money on on them as well right correct some of them that we cannot use we will put up for auction um those funds then would be used for things like outfitting the new vehicles or adding Graphics or repairs if we need to make the uh the speed signs those are operable and utilizing those we were told they were operable um we're working on it um they are missing some of the equipment um so we're trying to figure out what that is I know the deputy chief was reaching back out to mikasuki to find out if there's something missing um if not we'll I'm assuming the bill for the missing equipment or the repairs that need to be made is going to be far less than purchasing a new sign thank you okay thank you are there any other specific questions about the manager report before we move on to our attorney report if I may sorry before I close going to put on the spot sir uh Juan Penna is our new uh relatively new director of Public Works um he comes to us with 40 years of experience at West Miami um he is the one spearheading the drain cleaning program drain identification program installing the new uh no parking signs he'll be the one handling um the slow children playing signs um that we just received as well um he has already done in the few months that he's been with us he's done some absolutely phenomenal things I've received compliments from commissioner Steinberg's office um on what an incredible job he's doing representing our interest interests there so I just wanted to uh recognize and introduce Juan that's all I have thank you Mr manager you thank you for being here one all right do we have any other questions for the manager's report in the report that was provided before we go to our man our attorney report okay all right thank you Mr manager let's go ahead and ask our attorney uh Mr attorney do you have any uh report for us this evening short and sweet okay I have nothing for you today this evening thank you okay great thank you uh do we have any board reports or anyone present to provide any board reports to us this evening that would like to stand up we did not have any submitted to us all right so let's go ahead and go to our village commission reports um go ahead and open the floor to any commissioner that would like to share uh an update for their their section their reported this time she looking at something we sure sorry no no okay we weren't sure okay I have something really quickly so um last week we had Chris's evaluation and um he got an above average evaluation and it all went very well I thought it was very productive and one of the things that I said during the meeting was that I was going to try to write my relationship with him make it better and we've started working on that so I want you guys to know that we had what I call a reset meeting it went okay and we'll see where it goes from there but that having been said and this is not meant to be confrontational in any way at all but that doesn't mean that I don't discuss something that I think needs to be discussed and there was something in his report today that I think marriage discussion and I don't know if the rest of you caught it so um on the agenda tonight I believe Janie Anderson mentioned that it says on our agenda that the uh the department reports would be added to our agenda and they were not added so they're not on there the residents have not seen these but we commissioner saw them because Chris emailed them to us yesterday and said they would be adding to the agenda they weren't that's not what I'm here to complain about and this isn't really a complaint as much as an observation and a concern let's call it in Chris's report to us I have it here in front of me I hope you all read it did you all read it okay he discusses that he's doing more community outreach he was in the village this weekend driving around on Saturday and Sunday I ran into him we had a nice little chat I witnessed a resident like literally chasing him down the street trying to talk to him because it says Village manager on the side of his car um his SUV but uh and then in his report he also references that he'll be attending some other Village meetings but then he goes on to say in an effort to even out his hours he'll be taking some time off during the week because of these weekend hours that he's putting in that's a concern did you guys all see that did you see it in the report I I did and I guess I'm lucky enough to to come from a corporate culture where that's accepted so I it really didn't okay it really didn't for those of us who have sort of executive leadership positions we aren't paid by the hour and to have the chief executive of this organization say I'm going to be taking time off work to even out the time that I put in on weekends I don't know it just rang a little strange to me I travel for my not this job I travel for my real job I attend weekend conferences throughout the year I attend evening events I do not have a nine-to-five job but I'm paid a salary I'm not an hourly employee I'm paid to get the job done I can't imagine the day that I would go to my boss and say I'm taking some time off work this week because I went to that conference last weekend or I stopped by and did something with one of our clients here in the area which I do as well so so that concerns me a little bit it's not what I'm looking for in our manager and I wanted to put it out there and see if you guys had any opinion on that yeah let me add very briefly to what I said before which is um in in the companies I worked with most recently the hospital notwithstanding because Hospital culture is very different even the doctors clock in at the hospitals but most the other environments I've been in to your point these kinds of things are okay as long as the job's getting done if the job's getting done we don't want to micromanage anybody but I guess there's been enough concern lately that I I can see why you would be concerned so I just wanted to clarify that that's what I meant by okay fair enough I tend to be good with it as long as the job's getting well I don't to your point I don't consider bisc Park to be rocking and rolling right now we just gave him an above average evaluation and it's early in his tenure so he has a lot of work to do I get it and he gets it too but um I don't know it just kind of it just didn't I didn't I didn't like seeing that onor report and also and I and L and this is I'm always trying to like sort of cross teas and Dot eyes if I don't don't say something and it's just in there and we let it go by and no one has if I'm the only one that has a concern then we keep moving by but if I don't say something then it's in writing and he always is basically become his new policy for how he operates his hours in the village so I don't like the idea that our manager is missing uh during work hours when we have so many things going on my God the CIP alone could be like five people fulltime you know so at any rate I would like to hear your opinion on that that's my feeling on the topic for me it's not an issue I think also I come from a different culture when it comes about um just managing your times in a way that you find it efficient I trust that I know you've been late hours on the weekend and getting all this vehicles in place so for me it's not not a concern I trust it's judgment well for me is I feel the same I I I don't think I would have written that down uh but uh but I would have you know the the work life balance is is very important for me and for people that I work with and and people that work under me so I understand it and like like John said as long as a job is getting done um yeah perhaps uh writing that down is wasn't uh but um you know yeah so I'm I'm okay with it as long as the job gets so well I appreciate you pointing it out and highlighting it um I think following our evaluation session um we have some clear markers on what we would like to see improved and if we're not seeing Improvement and we're seeing that you know there's time off I think that that's indicative of something um so I think it's it's certainly worth something we're paying attention to it and I think it merits paying attention I thought it was my obligation to bring it up I have one of another thing I want to mention someone mentioned the officers that came to our last meeting and they've come to a couple of meetings recently so far be it for me to say people shouldn't attend our meetings I love having a packed house I wish we were overflowing with people as we used to and this is a great crowd tonight I like seeing staff here as well however that all struck me as being uncomfortable at let's just use the word uncomfortable I personally I'm not intimidated by it I don't think it was an intentional intimidation kind of a thing but I will say that having a whole bunch of police officers in uniform lining the walls and standing over here it's just an it's an odd optic to me as well so my response to whoever brought that Barbara was it you who brought it up was it Gary I I don't disagree with you I thought it was awkward as well I I like our cops and I'm always happy to see them here my suggestion would be next time we have 10 12 15 cops lined up maybe Jonathan you could invite them to have a seat yeah certainly I would have no issue with our police officers taking a seat um I I think we're we are open to the public so I I don't know that we can restrict anyone from being here no I'm not suggesting we should but I do understand why and I and and Gary said it but I heard it from several residents this week that they thought the code people in the front row all the cops in the room that it was a little it was a little odd I think we'll find some chairs then and and have everyone take a seat for our meetings and that make sure there's enough chairs for you'd like to sit now Chief we can we got a spot up here for you um okay uh thank you vice mayor um did you have anything else for your commission report excellent great we have any other updates for commission report from any other commission no no um so I will say um and uh this is obviously coming up um in the interlocal agreement but uh just to give everyone a quick little breakdown of the meeting that I had with the the county commissioner commissioner Steinberg um it was it was very productive um they're very cordial they're very courteous and they're very willing to help us I think the first thing she said to me when I walked in was we have our attention and we have our sight set on you so she's aware that we are in need of some help and her and her office her legislative Aid um everyone was very willing to help I think I spent almost two and a half hours there and I think the commissioner left for a meeting and I stayed with her staff who were more than happy to have me there um and they provided me with a lot of what you're seeing on the backup here this evening well they provided me with everything and they put us in touch with um the traffic uh the County Traffic Engineers um so they've been very helpful um the plan is to uh have the commissioner come and visit the village do a ride through uh I know that the the chief is involved in that the manager will be involved that we want to point out to her um a lot of the things that that we are and our residents are seeing um from from a traffic standpoint from really every standpoint so um that will be very productive and I'm looking forward to that too um so you know I don't want to spend too much time on it because we're going to be coming up on it the inter local agreement but suffice to say they were very helpful and they were very willing to work with us and and I think that they're going to be very supportive um so it was a great meeting um one other thing I wanted to bring up to the commission was uh the league of cities had reached out and they'd like us to kind of appoint that that point person again uh for someone for the Village um they I think they give the role of director so they ask is anyone does anyone put their hand up and and Serv in that role it doesn't restrict any of the commission from attending those meetings um I I did it last year and it's really just kind of a title and that you're there for support and that you get board of directors emails if there's you know a County Commission a county committee that they might be putting together things like that so I wanted to bring it up if if there was someone that was particularly interested in serving in the position then uh be happy to ask have them to do that if none can we talk after the meeting or is that no no cannot talk after the meeting if you're not going to be in the role um for much longer it's it's the role begins in May oh never mind so we would have to wait uh we don't have to tell them until April sometimes we have some time but again um still would encourage everyone to go they're good meetings they're good opportunities to be in touch with the county electeds and and everyone else um so just want to put it put it there we can everyone can think about it we can talk about it again in April if we'd like if someone is particularly interested maybe okay um well that's all I have for right now I'll save the rest for when we get to the interlocal agreement um so but that concludes our report section uh with nothing on our consent agenda this evening let's go ahead and move into our ordinances the first of which is ordinance 10A ordinance 20241 uh Mr attorney would you please read the ordinance on the record for us of course Mr Mayor if I may after I read the ordinance there just there's just a few matters that I need to address with the commission of course so they're aware great um an ordinance of the village Commission of the village of biscane Park Florida repealing ordinance 20 2307 and amending the biscane park comprehensive plan to incorporate the adopted 16-year water supply Plan update and to strengthen the coordination between the water supply planning and local land use Planning by amending certain objectives and policies in the public facilities conservation inter governmental coordination and Capital Improvements elements um providing for Conformity with Florida Statutes providing for transmittal providing for inclusion in the comprehensive plan and scrier errors providing for conflict providing for severability and providing for an effective date um okay so would you like to provide us with a comment now or would you like to wait until we move to discussion uh however it could be either way whatever your preference okay maybe you can give us the information so we we'll know whether it would ffect anyone's uh interest in discussing or moving it that be better go ahead please so from our previous discussions if you all recall um this ordinance was approved um some time ago there were some issues um which required us to to um reapproved the ordinance um it was our anticipation since the ordinance had been approved by all the um reviewing government entities that it would be approved as is without any changes we made it through two out of the three three governmental entities with regards to approval of the ordinance as is U Miami Dade County did ask for some very small um they're more wording than anything else um amendments which are incorporated into the second read and um Alex David and I went through it to to make sure they're Incorporated um just so you all have an idea of what they are um in section 3.5 U which is on page 22 of the plan where it refers ref to Florida friendly they want I'm sorry the county is requesting that it refer to Florida friendly landscape instead of zeroscape is one of them um the terms have basically changed over the course of the time and there were some new employees in the county that kind of wanted these changes um with regards to 3.6.1 which is on pages 23 and 24 they asked us to delete the reference in this section to reuse projects to recharge um the aquifer and reuse irrigation projects at the North and Central District water treatment plants and their explanation was these projects have been cancelled um per the water um water district adopted work plan um the Water District's reuse efforts currently include implementing a total of 16.4 mgds of reuse at each of the water treatment plants primarily for Implant process water use in addition the water district will be providing up to 15 mgds I don't know what that is so I'm sorry that's why I'm using the initials of uh reclaim water from the south um District water um wastewater treatment plant to the FPL facilities at Turkey Point for Miami Dade County resolution number R 57920 approved by the BCC on June 2nd or June 16 2020 and then on page 27 of the plan which is capital Improvement schedule on table seven they noted that the Water District's water use permit the c-51 project is included as an alternative water supply project they ask us to incorporate those changes which are which have been done okay great thanks Brad um all right so uh having heard the the changes that the county requested we make uh is there any Motion in a second to move this item to discussion motion to approve okay uh are there is there any public comments on this item seeing none is there any commission we'll move this into discussion then um is there any discussion on the item before we move to approve it there's nothing on here about water pressure is there yes oh there is yeah there's something about water pressure I see that yeah don't ask me where I read the whole thing again over the weekend there's something on about water pressure minimal maximum something um I have one thing in policy 1.13 uh there was some wording that was crossed out to be removed and then it was added back in on this version I think whoever did that must have just realized there was a mistake made and put it back in is that the case Brad it's highlighted in yellow and underlined policy 1.13 in in the ordinance in the I'm sorry in the ordinance itself yes exactly in policy the new policy 1.13 that was formerly 1.11 water conservation projects in is highlighted in yellow and underlined it was removed in the prior version and added back in on this version I think it was just for proper wording is that what that was about so yeah so what they did is it's they asked us to remove water savings incentive program water conservation projects because that was a specific title to a project and just put the general term of water I guess we could have stopped at at the water Sip and just left the rest of it but yes that's that was my only thing I just I just noticed that was put back in I didn't understand why okay there's no other discussion uh Madam cler would you please call the rooll mayor GR yes vice mayor Kennedy yes commissioner Amsler yes commissioner Gonzalez yes commissioner Holland the item passes is is adopted by may we have ordinance for you to sign tonight so that we get a okay great okay thank you both um okay so let's go ahead and move on to ordinance 10 or item 10B ordinance 2024 2 um Mr attorney if you would please read this into the record for us yes an ordinance of the village Commission of the village of biscane Park Florida amending chapter 2 Administration Article 4 officers and employees of the code of ordinances of the village of biscane park by creating a new section titled indemnification of City officials providing for definitions providing for indemnification of City officials and employees while acting in the course and scope of their official duties providing for inclusion in the code and scrier errors provi providing for conflict providing for severability and providing for an effective date okay thank you Brad do we have a motion in a second to move this item motion to approve second okay do we have any public comments on this item okay seeing none uh do we have uh any discussion on this ordinance on the second reading okay uh um all right Madam cler would you please call the role on this one mayor gr yes vice mayor Kennedy yes commissioner Amsler commissioner Gonzalez yes commissioner Holland the item is adopted on second reading 5 Z okay thank you madam clerk okay so that concludes our ordinances so we will move into item or section 11 resolutions and the first of our resolutions is 20246 amending the agreement um Mr attorney would you please read the resolution for us yes of course a resolution of the village Commission of the village of biscane Park Florida approving Amendment to the came out funny Amendment with cap uh government for the purpose of deleting the provision regarding Outsourcing of Code Enforcement services and adding the complete Outsourcing of the building department Services authorizing The Village manager to execute said Amendment providing for separability and providing for an effective date okay thank you um Mr manager was there any additional uh introduction for the item that you'd like to bring to our attention before we move to discussion there were two questions raised during the last meeting one was regarding um the ability of regarding fees fees that the um that the contractor charges um and the second was uh regarding ending the contract so the the fees themselves are set by the commission um they're set by I believe it's ordinance um at a specific percentage of the project so um cap cannot come back and tell us they're going to increase fees they can request an increase in fees however if our fees are in line with other fees or the fees of other municipalities that's not something um that we would have to do um the second question came back about cancellation whether or not we have this amendment we are in the same situation so in theory and I know we had some discussion about this um cap could um try to uh end the contract now they can try to end the contract after um after the amendment passes there's no change from current state um one thing that I did want to address is just to hopefully simplify a little bit we are essentially currently Outsourcing 100% now um de is our our building clerk is an employee of cap um I don't know why we didn't amend that agreement back when um we lost her in-house and chose to have cap do that that was long before my time um but we are currently Outsourcing and once the amendment if the amendment passes there's not going to be any change in staff we're still going to have um that person Dena um sitting in her office so she will have as much institutional knowledge as she currently has could you uh could you address for us um the request from the commission uh to quote out understand what it would cost to bring that position in house please that position is a professional position that person needs to understand how to read and interpret business plans um with that type of position the total cost to us would be $138,000 and that is salary plus benefits plus taxes if we were to spend those funds to bring that person in house um we still run the risk that that person may at some point leave um with with our current agreement with cap if this person that we currently have Dina chooses to leave they slot somebody else in um so I think we can certainly bring this person in we would just have to find an additional roughly $138,000 in the budget to fund that person well that money comes out of uh the building department I mean the U right that 138,000 right correct correct I don't know that we've said this but I think we're moving this item into discussion now so we started it so let's just continue it so we'll we'll open to a commission discussion so go ahead continue please question I had okay so I'm sorry art could you speak in your microphone the building department actually pays that salary right correct comes out of the uh so why would we need to go out and find another $138,000 I didn't explain that in the best way possible those that salary would be coming from directly from us through the building fund versus right now those the taxes and benefits and everything else are covered by cap right but so if it was our employee they would still be getting paid out of the same pool it would be paid out of the building fund right so it's not like we have to go out and find another 130 or whatever it is uh from somewhere else to pay for this employee because we're just swapping out kind of the cap person for one of our one of our people that is correct we would have to take a look at what that the easiest way to phrase is the 25% that we're currently retaining is most likely not enough depending on the year to pay for that I guess is the easiest way to explain it so we currently we have to give cap 75% of our building fees permit fees inspection fees and that funds their services we retain 25% that's all that we retain to be able to pay for that building person um so if there's if there's a if there's a deficiency then we would have to come out of somewhere else as correct correct so well I guess well where where where are we to date as far as that 25% is concerned do you have any idea as far as exact dollars spent more no more or less well we we we're we're keeping 25% right correct yeah that's the missing information that I was talking about last meeting is we're talk we're having half the conversation because first of all to Art's point that person is also budg it's in our that person's in our current budget so we don't have to go find $138,000 it's in our budget and it's funded by our portion of the permit fees so it's the revenue side of this conversation that we don't know so year-to date what kind of money have we brought in so I don't we don't know if we're covering it or not we don't know if we're able to cover or not but the information exists somewhere that's what we're not seeing we're not seeing the revenue side who can get us who can get us Paul is in the line huh is Paul on the line PA yes I am oh there he is thank you did you hear the question Paul yeah you're trying to figure out excuse me you're trying to figure out where the what the cost difference would be uh I don't have that right at my fingertips but but generally speaking it it would be easy to expect that a in-house uh Village employee would be more expensive than the 25% markup so it I I would always budget between 35 and 40% for a uh a city employee for overhead just to give that context I'm sorry that was very that was a very vague answer Paul it's maack Paul um what you just said was really not clear enough to me so you said you don't think 25% would be enough but 25% is based on times a dollar amount that's what we need to see as far as we know it might be an excess of that right now there's a lot of construction going on The Village it seems to me we're making a decision without some facts in front of us and that's the fact it's the revenue part I I have another dumb question um since you said that the employee that we have now is Cap right that we've been Outsourcing this uh for quite a while I don't even know how long how long have we' been Outsourcing this position to a cap employee it's my understanding it's been 18 months okay so the 25% that we're supposed to be retaining mean uh are we retaining that or are we turning around and giving that right back the cap because because that employees theirs we're turning around and giving it to cap well we're not just to be clear no we're not giving that 25% back to cap we're paying them a fee that has a dollar amount attached to it and we're pretending like that those two numbers are the same thing and guys we don't know that we're not giving them that 20 we're not saying Hey cap keep the other 25% are we hope not are we Chris and that will pay for her can you rephrase the question please are we saying right now and and just to press pause on that for a second this this was supposed to be a temporary thing it was temporary Mario said we're going to use their person temporarily until we go start the hiring process and then he was gone and that was it so it was never meant to be a long-term situation right now for I believe her name is Dena I'm not certain of her name for Dena Chris are we is our agreement with cap cap keep the other 25% and that will cover Dena or are they charging you a monthly amount for Dena we currently pay I'm pulling up the budget here to tell you exactly give me one second I was going to fill in uh some of that if you don't mind Chris go ahead yeah the the 25% I was talking about was how we handle their costs for an employee it's a 25% markup so we two different 25% going around there the 25% you just described uh commissioner Kennedy uh ret is retained Revenue in the building department uh for the village other line items in the building department presently but we are not we are recognizing that money that 25% but then we're also separately paying cap so we have Revenue coming in our 25% and then we're paying cap for that person all in a number are we my question is is there a monthly amount or an annual amount or a weekly amount is there an amount that we're paying for that service or are we simply saying we'll give you the rest of the we'll give you that other 25% and call it even what are we doing right now we're paying $70,000 a year okay so we don't know if the 25% is covering it not covering it there's money in excess when we're talking about a percentage we don't know we're we're we're we know what now we know what we're paying we're paying $70,000 a year Allin Chris that that covers everything right for her we have no other expenses for her that's 70,000 all in correct so we do know what we're paying but we don't know what that 25% equals and if it's if we're short to cover her or in excess right now as far as I know as far as I know sitting here right now with the information in front of us we may be rolling in it and could afford two dasas I I don't know no one's put anything no one's put that in front of me does that make sense art yeah so that's what we're not seeing that's what that's where I keep tripping over this whole thing it's like there's this nebulous thing this 25% I need a dollar amount attached to that year to date so just to give some context back in fiscal 21 we had revenues of $365,000 from fees and fiscal 22 a revenues at 336 ,000 in fees fiscal 23 we had $69,000 in fees um it varies significantly from those fees we have to pay cap for the services of inspectors um plan reviewers and so on that's part of the 75% that they're keeping right correct my point in saying that was that's not money that we're keeping that's what the fee income was you said it makes it sound like in addition to we have to pay the so you just threw a number out there 365 was one of the numbers Chris is that correct 365 was the revenues in fiscal 21 so 365 times 25% that's $91,000 that's more than enough to pay for Dena the $600,000 a year that was $150,000 yeah so it seems to me like we're kind of head ahead of the game here and assuming 2024 is probably as lucrative as 2023 I I I we I'd love to see a your to date number so thank you Chris for that information that's what we've been missing and now I'm thinking now I really don't understand the value in this I understand the value on the spreadsheet you showed us of what we could save but according to what you just read to us we'd be ahead of the game and we'd have our own in-house person because to some other people's uh points I find enormous value to having uh someone in house for for the department and the idea of Outsourcing something completely is a very scary thing to me sort of philosophically I just think we need to have our fingers in it somewhere and it seems to me this we have more than enough money to do it am I doing the math right here you're our you're you're the numbers guy that that checks that's where I that's where I am even if you were to average the three years we'd be averaging 436 but we imagine like like commissioner Gonzalo said we're going to be higher so we're going to be in excess of likely in excess on the 25% of 110,000 and we're not allowed to have we're not allowed to so we'd have to settle that so it's almost like we're in too good of a spot because we're not allowed to make money off that department so it could be then we okay so maybe we need to look at our fees and reduce fees for these people because we're charging more than we need so the second half of that equation the number that you were asking for um like we look at uh fiscal 22 we brought in 337 $336,000 in fees our expenditures for building were 287,000 and then overhead was 37,000 what were the expenditures so expenditures for building is the the the money that we pay to cap for the engineering it's for the technology fees and things like that in fiscal [Music] 203 I'm sorry let's look at fiscal 22 we brought in 336 um we spent 287 in expenditures and 37 on overhead which is admin in fiscal 23 we brought in 609 but we spent 674 in building um and then uh saved 26,000 in uh overhead so we actually lost money if you're looking purely at numbers in fiscal 23 so that's that's something that having a challenge trying to trying to explain to you it's not necessarily looking at each individual year if we have a super busy year we may need three clerks we don't have the ability to pay for that if we have a super slow year we can probably get by with one or you know two or what what have you so one of the conversations that I had earlier today was looking at this from the volatility perspective we know if we go 100% with cap which is what we're already doing they can scale up and down it's not going to affect our budget in any way shape or form because they get their their entire revenue is from is from fees if we bring this in house we then get that risk where if we get a for some reason incredibly slow month um or slow year I should say now all of a sudden those are funds that we have to take from someplace else in the budget because we have to be able to pay that one person or two person two people or three people that we hire so it's really hard to look at this from a single year just a single year snapshot to say yes we're we're we're flush with cash or know we're we're significantly overspent because we go from you know over um $11,000 to under almost $40,000 can I ask you really quickly in the risk of doing exactly what you asked us not to just do and look at year by year so if we've been basically Outsourcing 100% for the last 18 months or so that would cover fiscal 23 yes and we brought in 609 but we somehow overspent 600 674 so if we had it fully outsourced the cap to the point where you know they can kind of wax and Wayne with us and do what's what is required how did we end up overspending that was give me one second here that was the correction when we when we rea the Department we had to pay back uh we had to fix that Revenue so there's a piece of that I don't know which uh chart you're getting the numbers from Chris but that is a piece of this puzzle now this was Sharon's email from the 26th of February yeah so she updated it that's perfect say that again Paul you remember the building department when it was isolated as its own fund uh had a a ripple effect where you had to actually take other fees that the The Village had been benefiting from and give them to the building department because they weren't they weren't fees that are Professional Services contractors uh generated uh or used so uh you may remember I think it was about $260,000 we had to transfer from the general fund to the building department and Paul this is the building department should be flush it should balance yeah this was by law that we had to do that we had to clear sort of the budget and separate it in a way that forced us sort of to move the monies around like that correct so basically for what I understand is we're by given and Chris and I want to highlight pros and cons here the pro for this if I understand what you're suggesting is that the risk is actually sitting on the vendor meaning if there's a slow month we are not held accountable to fix operating costs of having one two employees regardless cap will take the hit because cap works with many municipalities they have the bandwidth to do that cor right um versus we keep our own employee we pay I'm just going to round the number it doesn't matter $100,000 and that that month we made less now we are St with a negative correct so in that case uh Paul where does the positive and this is a finance question I'm trying to put puzzle and I spoke with you before and I'm still trying to make this happen where is the positive and negative go so if I have a minus sitting in the building department for a particular year because it was low and I had operating costs that were higher where do I have to take from does it come from the general fund well a separate fund would always have is doesn't have to be zerob balanced it can roll money Savings in year one to year two okay and going forward so that would be the first place so the when you got flush last year when you did this the releveling you you have excess funds to to bring over and live off of and you used it for the computer software technology stuff like that if you have a shortage uh you have two choices you can adjust your fees or you can uh borrow funds or donate give money transfer inter fund transfer from the general fund so the general fund can subsidize the building department the building department cannot subsidize the general fund can other departments subsidize the building department so or does it have to come from the general fund well I'll put it this way sorry I have a cold today uh you you can always re-evaluate your overhead and I use that phrase uh for instance there are shared roles for instance the percentage of time Chris would supervise you could you could charge an overhead fee an interf fund transfer for his time or other bodies uh but you'd have you have to be very uh meth methodic in that but you can do that that would be another way to adjust it okay but for example if we needed a chunk of money to vero's point could we go into this CIP could Chris come to us and say we're going to move money from the CIP from The Log Cabin walkway and and make the building fund flush uh not in those words no okay um can I can I finish on my yeah I'm sorry I just wanted to know where you asked where and I want to know where else you know yeah so so I'm trying to set up those so the the the pros and cons so PR uh PR sorry being that the the the risks relies on the on the vendor sits on the vendor's side uh the con being that we don't have our own employee we currently haven't had it we esperans Esperanza was her name before ES was from cap as well no she was our employ I wasn't sure um so same thing as as branza got a better opportunity also stood up and left so I understand what you said that can happen at any time with the vendor with us or anything in terms of systems so that's another concern we've moved this will be the third migration we do we have and then we went I never say and then we went to open go and then now uh we're thinking of going to cup so we spend money along the way training people investing in the software um which obviously it is a concern if cab was to raise prices where we can hold them uh as a vendor anymore uh the point that there it's too risky for us to to to hold us and they let us go we will again have to do that um I'm bringing this up because I want to see the other part so what's the alternative so the Alternatives we have hire our own employee and then that allows us to build a culture within the employee The Familiar Faces I think that is a very important point to keep in mind on the risk side we're stuck with it we're going to have to get money from some other place and It's Tricky as po already described the third point being the system we're always going to be subject to have an unextended vendor there's this is not a system we will build ourselves so regardless we're always will be switching in and out am I reading this right I didn't understand that last part so the system right now we have three migrations happened mean the computer system we're currently using correct so we had the first one open up and cap if cap were to stand up and leave will have fourth if we in any way I guess the point is that is an a downside of yeah uh that we're always going to have to deal with because we're we have open gov we paid for it we have it and we're still not finalized and we will never be for what I understood finalized with the prior system because there's things are not compatible I mean and that is a complexity that they will continue to happen so to that point I think uh the downside will be more complexity of three systems having to migrate time and obviously that affects the Opex at the end so that's my again I'm still thinking about this I know you wanted to bring some points you want to do bring another Point um no that that it okay so I'm glad we had this conversation because that was the other side the other I felt like I was only seeing half the math you know and I understand why this is convenient for us and I do understand the benefits that they're assuming more of the risk look no one works for free so let's not speak in hyperbole like oh you know everything goes terrible and they're they're working for us for free and because they have so many other clent no one works for free so they're going to come to us and ask for more money do you work for free well all of us up here basically work for free so um uh and the other thing that was sort of thrown out there I don't know where this came from but the idea of having two building clerks or three building we've only ever had one building clerk so we've never had the need we're so busy that we needed a second one unless I'm mistaken is anyone here who's lived here longer have we ever had more than one building clerk I'm seeing lots of hedge saying no so uh let me just tell you what my main concern is okay I love the idea of having our own our own employee I really really do love that idea having said that this a highly technical position this is not you can't just hire somebody off the street and figure that they're going to know how to do this job we're a small village we don't pay a lot compared to other municipalities there is an opportunity there for a lot of turnover and you're basically going to be starting over and over and over and over again right I get that um with them um they have trained people their job is to train them and and if this person leaves and they're going to have another trained person to show up on Monday we hope they do that's know well right well that would that in theory uh so so that that that is my only concern that's a valid concern that I have yeah having because it's it's not like you know with all due respect you know cutting the grass right this is somebody has to know how to work in that in that in that field I would be lost completely right so the other benefit is if we're doing you know the pluses and the minuses is that they work as part of Village Hall team and they're cross trained to do other things and they and we've had that in the past too where the building people were doing some code things am I correct here someone not at me yes and vice versa so there's there's some economy to be gained there as well so um just kind of Aging some temperatures here can I ask a question if if this resolution were to um we were to vote against the resolution what would look what would it look like for the next steps because as we mentioned this this this cap employee was the idea behind it was or the intention behind it was with this this was going to be a temporary situation what would you foresee being the next step just continuing the current relationship as it is or are we going out and we are are we looking for people uh to take over the position and how much we would have to pay or could we hire their person who's assigned to our account now I don't know her and I don't know her work status with I mean if you wanted her if we wanted her are you allowed to if I may Mr may please please the only the only point to that I don't have the answer I'm going to go look right now okay but there are a lot lot of the uh agreements with these vendors have Clauses in them where you can't hire their employees does this one I have to look well we're planning to hire Dorene she's part of the same agreement isn't she and the plan was that Dorene Grant would become our own employee and she's their employee right now so Jen is a is part-time um part-time with cap she's not a full-time employee Dina is a full-time employee okay so it sounds like the idea again just based on the position what we're looking at the idea and and certainly feel free to disagree with me but it sounds like the idea would be if this were if we were to say no now uh the idea would then be assuming that we can't hire her full-time the idea would then be leave it in place for now and the only reason I would see it us saying no is because we would want a full-time employee so then it would be go you know take a look and see what the market looks like and see who's available that seems to me like it would be the next step so you and hopefully we'll find out that we could hire Dena and that Chris wants to because it would be his hire and that she would want to no we we can't hire Dina we she's a full-time employee with cap we can't terminate our agreement and then hire her Daren is a part-time employee so it's a little again dena's a full-time employee with cap right if we terminate our agreement we cannot hire Dena ourselves who said to terminate our agreement with cap you just got done saying that we should hire somebody internal that I misunderstand I think the idea was that we would maintain and certainly you know if this is not the situation if this is not the arrangement if we were to maintain the relationship with cap but then bring in someone in house to fill that clerk phys right and if you're allowed to hire Dena we don't know Brad's looking it up right now I think and if we're allowed to hire her and Chris not to be discussed here openly it's your hire if you wanted to hire her you're allowed to hire her she wanted to be hired that that could be an easy solution to filling the position is all I was saying maybe to the point I didn't say terminate a relationship with cap maybe to the point of what you're thinking is that because she's a full-time cap employee we would basically be making an offer and see if she wants to leave her employment with cap anyome work with us correct assuming we're allowed to right right well if she leaves the employment with cap I I I can't answer this question not withstanding sorry go ahead no I I can't answer this question I have to review the contract as well I don't know what that would look like I don't know what's allowed from perspective um as far as yeah like I said this is this is a unique Arrangement um we'd have to do some double- cheing on that do you not see anything in the contract that would that would prohibit us from using the word you just use coaching I wouldn't have used that word but since you said it I'll say it yours coaching poaching um it's the it's an applicable word okay well regardless of who it is right the idea moving forward be is is is if we had a majority that said we don't want it we don't want to pass the resolution the idea would be then you go out to look to fill that position and we still maintain the relationship with cap and they of lead that that role but we're fulfilling the clerk position to supplement we're happy with C what I'd have to look at I I can't I can't speak to that off my I have a question on that so if we were to go and hire our own employee um what's currently the the paying how much are we currently paying for the position and how much it's Market currently we're currently paying $70,000 for that position and that's Professional Services paid correct up directly if we were to hire did you say 138 138 that's including taxes retirement all that and that is where do you get your comps for this yeah 13 that's the assumed salary of between 70 and 100 there's a huge range there most likely we would end up around 80 to 90 plus like I said the taxes and everything else and that's how we got to 138 where did you come up with 80 to 90 or 70 to 100 I mean did you do some research or you're just sort of guesstimating that NOP I did some research as having conversations with other companies as well as other managers the going rate is somewhere between 70 100 you think we be paying 80 to 90 cor cor I I would like to have seen that in here as well because of we're going to be comparing all the different possibilities I'd like to see that I mean do you have a do you have a list of what clerks in similar with similar responsibilities in other municipalities are presently being paid we don't we can put out a survey yeah I think that would be helpful we don't know look we're we're making decisions here based on a percentage that we haven't turned into a dollar amount and some sort of best guesses if I I like to make a recommendation on that point um if we can see if we can see some maybe some survey numbers maybe some some more concrete numbers on what we really you know what we what we think would be the price uh maybe the best thing to do for right now would be to table the resolution to have that additional information for us to have that concrete decision I mean it sounds like that's kind of where we're going um and i' i' I'd welcome some some uh some comment from the commission on that point yeah so you're saying to table this until we have more information we have well what we have is is you know Chris is representing to us that we have an understanding or an idea of what those costs look like um so let's take a look at it let's take a look at it and then we have a real concrete decision between what we're paying now versus what we can expect to pay in a month if we terminate if we if we go the route that we're talking about and some of the numbers that Chris you were accessing for us while we were discussing it have them be down because I was like trying to write down numbers as you were saying you know the numbers from previous years give us some history so we have yeah so we can it's one thing to hear them out loud at a meeting it's another thing to see it all in front of us like here's the history for the past five years I have a question though year to date this year quite frankly so if we were so 70 you said we paid to cap if we were to pay 70 exactly the same it would come with the additional benefits uh what would that look like Paul I'm sure you have that kind of in your head I don't know if you can help so if you were to pay uh someone 70,000 plus the additional benefits how much would it come um out to be I guess yeah that was that was the answer I was trying to give a little while ago was that that your markup uh your raw dollar markup for a village employee is closer to 45% oh wow okay I thought Chris said it would be 138 all in so 40% 70 yeah we're same have your mic on John please so that's at the end of the day that that's a conversation no matter what I mean because we can go back and research but you're talking about even if you were to hire Dina for the same value in terms of Baseline salary we're not never going to pay 70 we're going to pay a lot more that number would be 10,500 at the $70,000 ,000 more than what we currently paying to cup guys but to be honest we don't know what Dena is making we're pay we're giving them $70,000 doesn't mean she's earning $70,000 guys they're making money exactly let's let's be realistic $70,000 for a position of the of that position I don't I don't honestly I don't see it I don't know where you got that number from $770,000 you know listen and it's going to be hard to for us because building department heads um in that position I'm sure way over $100,000 um so I I don't know how you're even going to be able to find something that's going to be relative to that that makes sense for us and like I said that's my that's my concern is that we're not we're we we don't pay a lot right so we're going to we're going to have a turnover issue um so that's why I want to see what other municipalities are paying yeah we're we're like Flying Blind here on a lot of this so I'm sorry Chris you just said 101,000 is that all in with salary and benefits that's the $70,000 salary um plus the 45% for benefits taxes whatnot but I thought you just said a little while ago it was 138,000 that's market value he's saying so seven is what we are paying to cap right now so comparing apples if that was if we were to find someone at 7 okay I get it but to Arts Point Cap's not they're making money off Dina so if we're paying them 70 they're not giving all that money to her they're in business to make money so we need to see what you know the going rate is I think the the point is at the end the reason why you're paying this is because there the credentials I mean there are you know cap is the one that comes with the trainings and the knowledge of the system you don't have to retrain them they just come sit and ready to go and that's why their services are always going to be inflated whether you know we're going to hire someone at a $7,000 if we're able to find I mean according to what Chris is saying the number will be way off right compared to market price um then you need to train her and then you need to provide all the credentials they probably wouldn't have um so I think that's the the what I was trying to do apples to apples is regardless if we were to hire someone at 70 which is what we're paying we're paying 45% more on top that would be our expenses um that is the risk that we're taking that's how I see it that's the risk we're taking whether in the other um and and the way that it's presented by Chris now is just a a wash I understand because that the word keeps coming up and I understand what it is is I have 100% so whether it's 30 that month or it's 150 I'll take the hit or I'll take the revenue whatever that is but it's to me right that's what cup says so so what we're not seeing is historically how has that been would we have been in the negative or the positive so we need to see that um and we Al can we see that is that something because I I spoke to we know what Revenue we know what we know what fees were charged and what our percentage would have been yeah we we can see that but we also always have the ability to go to cap and say we need someone temporar rely again we always have that ability so if we hired someone and they left until we found another person we have the ability to go to them and say we need another temporary person and they have someone come over and sit like Dina is now and they and they fill in I think we again I still think we don't have all the information here to I'm I don't feel like I have all the information to make a a good judgment on this so then back to the to the proposal to to move this item forward if we can table it for now and ask CHR to bring back to us that information the information from the building departments the information on the revenues that were made what was paid what the overages were what the shortages were and then also um some more kind of concrete information on what the salaries look like so we know what we would be paying um more specifically uh to make an informed decision so that's what I would propose and um procedurally if you're going to table your your vote okay somebody needs to make a motion um and then it a call it's it's a consensus vote okay and there's no debate in the what's what's the difference Brad between tabling it right now and voting it down right now if we vote it down it can still come back to us correct would have to come back on a motion to reconsider okay procedurally it's much easier if you if you somebody on the dasp or to make motion at this point to table it then back as is okay that works I'll go ahead and make the motion to table it with the uh some of the extra direction to to Chris bring back second that second okay so I guess it's just a majority so do we have a majority no favor yes okay okay great you tabling it to a specific date I'm sorry need well I think maybe the intention that it we should have some more information by next meeting so why don't we do that and if if it changes in the meantime great but I'd like I'd like to get some some finality to the item hopefully by next month um okay so let's move on to uh 11b which is our resolution 20247 adopting donation policy Jonathan I'm sorry can I ask Chris a quick question before we pass on that topic Chris if we were to go with cap and they have this new system that we don't have and we one or the other party decided two years from now to we weren't going to do business anymore who owns all the data that in that all the permits and all the plans and everything that came from us from our residents and it's in their system who owns that we do it's ours if I may as a matter of fact one of the provisions in the contract is a required U provision under FL law from public records these are public records I see and there is a requirement that upon request of of the village they have to provide those records to the village in a format that is compatible with the village assistance and we could request all of them could request that tomorrow if you want without even termin great thank you it's ours and it remains ours yes they're just the custodians of okay okay good to know all right so let's go ahead and come back to resolution 20207 adopting donation policy um uh Mr manager I know this this is uh your item if you wouldn't mind introducing it moris absolutely um under the current code um the man must come to the commission uh essentially to get permission to receive a donation what we propose doing is creating a resolution adopting a donation policy and then we have a sample donation policy or a sample a donation policy draft in there um and again this is to allow the manager to accept those donations the reason this is important is because oftentimes donations are time sensitive um if we were to receive if I were to receive notification tomorrow saying somebody was interested in donating it would technically have to wait until the April meeting um this does not I think one important thing to keep in mind is this the the policy that we're suggesting suggesting does not allow the manager to accept real estate um there additional issues that come with that so this would be things like the mikasuki vehicles um this would be things like the um the foundation raising money for the rec center um things along those lines okay thank you Mr Man does it I'm sorry Does it include grants grants are not part of this they're not considered donations grants are not donations does include sponsorships yeah that point let's go ahead and uh bring to discussion the item uh and bring up discussion points um one additional uh question that I had Chris on on this was donations it's not it's not accepting uh it's not it's not changing the expenditure right or the threshold it's um it's just accepting donations of anything other than real estate in Grants that you mention correct is there a threshold like a dollar threshold on what can be accepted yeah it's in there I think it's 10 just a point of order I don't think we've read the resolution we made this open for discussion my apologies but if you wouldn't mind reading the resolution for us do that um right it me one moment the resolution of the village Commission of the village of biscane Park adopting a donation and sponsorship policy providing for severability providing for conflict and providing for an effective thank you my apologies okay 100 th to answer your question it's $100,000 100,000 not 10,000 so the just to clarify the resolution adopts the policy then the policy is undefined resolution adopts basically adopts a policy and then we later Define the policy correct well in here the resolution would be to adopt this policy as is so um you could certainly make some some modifications to this policy and adopt resolution could adopt the policy as as amended um however I would my own sake if there were going to be a lot of changes bring it back and and major changes what I would ask for is the guidance and and identify the changes and right you've you've also um do a motion to table this and bring it back because it'll be too hard for me to get it together and then have you review it approve it you you reviewed this obviously I I drafted okay drafted it I perect I can tell you that I did it through um manager's direction we we discussed it what he was looking for what his ideas were and then I I drafted this policy um it's it's a it's a compilation of several policies that I've drafted in the past and some that I reviewed from other and and and you're comfortable with this is there anything that is okay so there is there is there anything that can come back and and bite us as long as it's as long as it's followed no and so and one of the reasons why I say that is it outlines the different types of donations it has um just to summarize it it lays out the criteria um in which how an evalu how the donation whatever it is has to be evaluated by the manager the responsibility is all on the manager um and just to give you an example it it it talks about how uh the manager required to evaluate the donation to determine whether or not it's in The Village's best interest to accept it whether it's consistent with applicable laws policies and resolutions and it gives criteria such as an appraisal of the donation um even if it's required to have a licensed appraiser title searches have to be done um any expenditure of Maintenance um that might be associated with it so any additional cost that might be associated with accepting the donation that the village would be on hook on on the hook for um the manager has to take that into consideration potential liabilities has it as conditions um and as well as whether or not the donation has any restrictions because you will find that um sometimes donors will come and say I I'll give you $100,000 but you have to use it for this and only this and if you accept it then you have to use it for that stated purpose if that's something that's not in the city in the excuse me The Village's best interest or it's something that's not a desire of the village then the manager should be reject rejecting that donation it it also has a reporting requirement in it um well it has accounting requirements and um it has a reporting um requirement as well in which at the next available Commission meeting I'm sorry for turning my head I just wanted to look at the document for a minute um the manager has to come to the commission and notify the commission that the donation was accepted here's what the conditions were you have a you you can have a discussion with it and you would certainly have the reverse I mean you you could direct the manager give it back we don't want it give it back so unless I missed it Brad um is there any anything written on here where it says that um the manager should consult the attorney prior to making any of these decisions and the reason I say that is because I'm I'm okay with um waiting till the next meeting but I wouldn't want a manager to uh do something that uh on their own without first Consulting our attorney for guidance prior to making those kinds of decisions I didn't see that in here is that it's not in here um and and the reason why I didn't put it in there and I certainly can't is based on your code and based on your Charter if there's any agreement any document that has to be executed by The Village the manager can't execute that document without it being signed um reviewed and approved as to Legal sufficiency by by your village attorney so everything on here would would require not necessarily okay so then that's that that so then I I would feel more comfortable adding that I don't know how you all feel about that I think that's a good point I think it's a good point so are we jumping into a conversation here yes do you need a motion to I don't think we moved it we didn't yeah we didn't move it we're excited okay okay so motion to approve have a second somebody second okay so here's my I have a bunch of notes so I read this it's very interesting and I want to say two things up front before I get into my and if you want me to wait for my comments I'll give them if you want to go Section by section or however you want to do it Jonathan that'd be fine I mean okay but my I have two general comments first one I'm very glad you brought this to us Chris because we need to have this mapped out and as you know I've been asking for us to be more creative about asking people for money and getting corporate sponsors and getting money in different creative ways to help us get things done so I think this buttons it all up and I love it for that um uh however I'm not a big fan I just have to say this as a commissioner I'm not a big fan of opening up an agenda and seeing a resolution on an item that we never discussed as it sits right now this is a resolution on an agenda and if someone called it to a vote right now and and three people said yes it would pass and it's the first time we're ever talking about it I really strongly prefer these things coming to us as a discussion item we talk through it if you want to put a draft in front of us that's fine but not have a resolution attached to it I don't like resolutions there this is a resolution correct Brad it is yeah I I'm just I have to say I'm not a fan of that I don't like seeing an agenda with a resolution that we never talked about it's like whoa there's a resolution that means if we vote on it right now it's done I think we should be discussing things first once we come to an agreement then we can bring it back as a resolution I just think we need to sometimes slow our role is what is my general comment on now I do have a bunch of comments if you want to go through Section I don't know if anyone cares anyone else cares about that but that always bugs me does anyone else care about that I think it's a bad practice no to me on the contrary to be honest I I just I don't mind the proactiveness of bringing already a document that we get to discuss I mean that's the purp that's fine I didn't say that I said the fact that there's a resolution here to pass it that's what I'm saying so it's a it's a resolution that we needed to look into this is a chance to give the feedback on so do you want me to go through all my comments yeah please okay very good um is is this similar to other municipalities is this a kind of an amalgamation of other municipalities all put together it so municipalities do this in several different ways um I've seen um municipalities um draft or or have ordinances incorporated into their um into their code of ordinances with regards to accepting the acceptance of donations and then what they will do is reference a a policy for the procedure but the but the actual guidelines and uh limitations are within an ordinance um and I've seen jurisdictions um do this where they create a policy and approve a policy by resolution so and Chris and I had discussed that okay um there so there's two mechanisms in which you can do this or and there's a combination of two so you could do an ordinance like I said and then you resolution approving a policy that lays out your process um this is a combination of probably I think four or five different jurisdictions um two of them do most of the jur most of the municipalities that your firm represents do they have something like this a lot of them do most most um jurisdictions either have an ordinance or a policy and and the reason why with with the cars when when Chris and I talked it wasn't so much that your ordinances required the donation of the cars from mikasuki to come before the commission it was that your ordinances in your Charter are silent to it right and so I've always taken the position not just here in every other jurisdiction I've ever been in is if your ordinances or your Charter doesn't give direction to a a village Municipal official how to how to act on something then they have to come before the the elected body and get permission to act um understood know other than just day-to-day operations I'm not talking about that but I'm talking about something okay that's going to potentially cause either liability to to the municipality or is going to increase property or or something of that nature so you're comfortable with it being a policy as opposed to an ordinance for us there's nothing wrong with you doing it fair enough that's what I want to know I'm going to press pause on my comments and just go back to my last thought for one more second the other reason I I like things to be discussions before they're brought to us as a resolution resolutions are sit up high on the agenda and here we are having our very first ever conversation about this and it might go on for a little while and residents are leaving who came to hear things that are coming up in the meeting later that are very important animportant and because of where a resolution sits on our agenda we're required to get through this now this should be a discussion item at the bottom of the agenda this is not a critically important thing that had to be done tonight I'm just going to beat that horse one more time because I'm watching people leave this meeting who came here for a specific purpose and now they're going to leave and not hear their item Hur okay um in the background section the second sentence isn't a sentence so that needs to be sorry in the background starting at the top under background the second sentence is isn't a sentence so that needs to be Rewritten and turned into a sentence where is the second sentence uniform criteria and procedure guide and uniform criteria and procedures guidelines for the review acceptance placement and long-term maintenance of such donations confirmation that the village has relevant it it just goes on and on and on it's not a sentence so it's a whole bunch of stuff and a big long string of words and that needs to be fixed um now in one section it says that the manager can accept real estate in in the general section number one it doesn't say that there is a limit but in 4B it specifies that there's a limit so in under general principles look at general principles number one it doesn't say there's a limit but if you go down to um Which principle I'm trying to write as fast general principles number one Nations become the property of the village upon acceptance uh that's not the right one not in general one in under General it says it says he can accept real estate I'm looking yeah not sure where you were okay I'm sorry it's down on number three donations of real property there's no but then in 4B as in boy it [Music] says it has a limit of $100,000 so the so section three is is talking about if if the village is presented with a donation of real property this is what the manager needs to do in order to conduct the evaluation um of the of the possible acceptance mhm but if you look down further the man um I got to find it but I know there's a provision it's in 4B as in boy under donations of cash in tangible so seek formal authorization from the commission to accept the refund or accept or refund a donation accepted by The Village if the action exceeds 100,000 that talk no no there's another provision in here let me do a word search actually let me pull up my word version I can't work on this one I've always had this this is why I always have it usually takes up all your room let me pull up a word version because it'll be easier for me to make comments well if you just want to make a note of that Pride there's two it's it's in here in two places and it's not consistent in one place it doesn't it's kind of Silent on the amount and the other place it has the amount if that's important to you you decide I'm just bring it to your attention well I it's really doesn't matter what's important to me and I don't mean to be factious when no I know what you mean I know where you're going with that um so it's it's really up to you all um if if there's if there's M if there's and I I'll go back to what I said before if there's either major concerns or or modifications what would ask you all to do is is table this as well and I can have individual conversations with each of you or whoever desires to speak with me about it if you want to do that we could do that but I'd still like to hit on a couple of other things here that I'd like to hear you guys get feedback on let me jump to the next one 5c is in Charlie says the village shall have the sole discretion on the number type and size of signage or advertising placed on Village property in associate with in association with the granting of a naming right full graphic designs must be submitted to and approved by the village prior to the installation of any advertising so is this let let's say Nike yeah okay so who's the village is it the commissioner or Administration you are the you are the village We Are The Village the people sitting up on this the elect that's what I that's what I wanted to know because I don't want signs to start showing up all over the village naming rights on things that we didn't see dealing with sponsorships or or or a donation where somebody puts structure they want you know I'm donating $200,000 for you to build a a whatever ball court and I want Nike on it name it after my okay so the commission has the authority over that is that clear is the language there no no that's what I was going to tell you think it's it needs the clear it's because when I see Village I think Administration when I see commission with a Capital C I think the five of us okay I can certainly change that okay good thank you for that that that is the one thing that like scared me to death I'm like oh my God signs are going to that was for you all make that good thank you let me just make a note um change to commission okay 5D as in dog it says the term of any naming rights agreement see this is why I hate having is a resolution and here we are having this giant conversation for the first time the term of any naming rights agreement shall not be less than five years ding ding ding ding ding ding ding minimum of five years naming rights is required in our own policies okay so again these are things that I've I drafted for other these are things that are open for discussion open for your consideration what do you guys think because that scares me to death five years minimum naming rights do Les what do you thinking it's it's a sufficient I don't think I don't know that we need to have any minimum you don't even need to put I don't think you I don't think you need a minimum I think it should just be negotiated the discretion of the commissioner yeah exactly and we negotiated at the time depending on what it is is it a is is it something that's going to be in the village for decades is it something that's not I mean I don't know so and and I guess this is this is where that issue would come up is if you have a donation that's within the manager's discretion to accept but there is a provision with regards to naming rights in some in some form or fashion but in the line but in the section above it says the commission has to approve that well you have to approve signage you're talking about right not necessarily A naming right it depend it it depends what's a naming versus a sign well until it shows up on a sign I don't care if it's named the Nike pickle ball court until it's on a court until it's on a sign so you want the naming I hope Nike's listening what's that I hope Nike's listening so you so the for the term the naming rights shall be at the discretion you're talking about an agreement now yeah I think it should be at the discretion of the commission I think that's something we should be in control of as well well we have the discretion over the number type in size of the signage in advertising then you could certainly have discretion over that okay in that same section it says um uh upon expiration of the term whatever that term ends up being the sponsor the sponsor Nike shall have the first right of refusal to enter into a new agreement and retain the naming rights of the property under terms ually agreed upon by The Village on the sponsor so they have first right of refusal I think we should have first right of refusal I think if we make an agreement it's the Nike pickle ball court until the year 2030 and they say we want to renew it then we be we say that's our discretion and we're saying no or we'll have a conversation with you about that it's going to cost x amount we're going to it's G be another $100,000 5D is in dog the second half of that it says the term of the naming rate shall be no less than five years we just abolish that and no more more than 10 years I'm not sure there needs to be any term written in there at all but then it says when that expires the sponsor gets the first wrer refusal to extend the naming rights except it has to be the terms have to be mutually agre right so if you don't agree on terms then they don't get an extension then why have it in there then why not just put the power in our hands that we have the power of first R of refusal because a lot of times people that are donating want to have the at least the idea that they're they're going to be able to continue and we could have that conversation with them right up front look Nike it can be theall court for 100 years but but that could also determine whether or not I want to even start because you know I maybe I don't want to donate this because you're not going to give me the right to right to perpetuate let's say let's say somebody had come to the Village to the Village manager and said look I want to donate I want to donate money for a park but I want my name I want the park to be named after me and I want it to be named um in per in perpetuity that that is something that would be an agreement that would have to be drafted if the manager came to me and said hey we have a sponsor we have a sponsor or we have somebody making a donation and they want a naming right to whatever that item is my my response is going to be we need to have an agreement so the agreement's going to have a term if there's a term in the agreement there would be renewal there would be a defined renew renewing rights to that to that sponsorship or I'm sorry that naming and terms would have to be agreed upon so you wouldn't just have a verbal agreement for naming rights it's it has to oh no it's gonna be a contract has to be yeah course there's no way for it to especially if it's in for a peri a longterm period or or perpetuity because it has to somehow be something that's recorded okay that's my comment on that sounds like Brad's going to talk to us about this separately 5e is an Edward I want to be clear on this this is about lighting the purchaser of the naming rights nikee for their sign the Nike sign on the pickle ball court shall pay all costs associated with the production maintenance and removal of any signage placed on Village property the naming right sponsor is also responsible for the cost of installing any electrical connections necessary to illuminate its approved signage okay I want to make sure that we are in complete authority over lighting as well on anything that part of the sign it's part of the sign okay can we make that clear up there because it's it's it's mentioned here separately and I just want to make sure that everyone's clear that lighting is our domain as well I don't want people thinking they're going to do something with lighting I know you and I are going to talk about this so I can get this straight before I'm making notes on everything okay doing my best okay eight a is an apple um so this is after someone this is after someone has done this wonderful thing and they've Nike has you know given us the pickle ball court uh it says the manager will recognize donations by a letter of appreciation to the donor da da da da da um and then it does it says again any consideration for a naming rights shall be approved by the commission I don't know why that's there again but at any rate it's it's it's a as an alpha that I think uh in addition to a letter I think a proclamation would be in order here we do Village proclamations and I think they deserve a proclamation thanking them for that as well or maybe it's only for donations over a certain amount but I think people start donating something nicer than a letter that's sent to them would be in order have a threshold in mind why don't we just why don't we just put the discretion at our at our discretion why don't we just leave the decision there we say there you go may have recognized and may also be recognized by proclamation there you go entered by the commission I'd kind of like it to always be done there's no threshold and we just say look it came to us and it's a great thing let's go ahead and do the so I will put that instead of the manager the commission will recognize the donations by manner of by by any manner in which they deem appropriate okay but they requires us to do it and we'll determine at that point if it's a letter okay the next section is standards for new donations um so in under standards for the donations number two is appearance and Aesthetics this scares me see typo well the typo doesn't scare me so much typos I know you'll you'll spell check it before we vote on it um at what point do we get someone else involves other than us is I mean it seems to me we have a we have a planning board uh who approves the Aesthetics of everything else that happens in this Village Homes and everything else that goes up should they be involved guys I'm asking you guys should they be involved in this well anything that you would install that would require a permit or require an inspection your code still applies I mean this does not circumvent your your code correct so if you were to put in I don't know some type of um memorial let's say and it's going to go on on Village property but it's being donated the const cost of the construction is being donated um it's still gonna it still has to go through them if your code requires permits inspections and right whatever the Florida building code or whatever your code requires those are still applicable but might there be things that don't require that there could be yeah so I'm saying is I think everything should go through the planning board and come to us with their they don't necessarily I mean if it requires permits they're going to have to approve it anyway but even if it doesn't I think it should go through them before it comes to us with their recommendation if someone wants to donate a mural that's painted on the side of village hall for example I would want someone before it comes to us to give us their opinion on that people who have expertise in that area is what I'm saying that was an only addition to the permitting thing I think anything that's physical in nature should go through the planning board kind of like Brad the way they um variances go through them right they don't get to say no to a variance they they can vote down but we're the final Authority but their opinion comes to us at the variance hearing so when it comes to us we get the planning board's opinion you guys have a feeling on that intermediate step of it going to the yeah yeah anything that's a physical thing in the village the only thing I'd have to look at is the ordinance creating the planning board and see if that has to be amended well they're the planning and design review board so yeah okay I just I think we're we're starting to complicate this a little bit Mac and I'm going to tell you what why I think that um I think that say somebody donates a mural on Monday um that doesn't mean he's going to hang it on Monday no I know means it's still once he receives that he's going to come to us right and then we're going to say you know at that point we can always say well let's go send get get it sent to the planning board we don't have to hang the mural right so we're we're we're adding now an additional step to this process but we're writing a policy that's what policies are right they're the steps understand but but we're trying to let him you know accept donations right so if we're going to send it now to the planning board prior to him accepting this is what is that what you're trying to say yeah well we have to accept it I understand that but it doesn't mean but we're going to accept it at the next meeting it's an excess of a certain amount right yeah look anything that goes up in this Village the planning board gets to put its thumb on it absolutely and I don't think this should be any different is what all I'm saying I just don't want to delay the process or or you know well look it's mostly like money and cars and stuff that's going to come through this thing but these other things we have to be prepared for the day that it does happen all I'm saying is we have a board that is in the business of approving these things for us or giving us their opinion on it as well I think to to his point is after accepting a a donation it has to come back to us and report that it was accepted and then we will Reserve every right to reverse it and say we don't want it because it doesn't meet with the planning code code Aesthetics or we don't like the sign or we don't like the lighting so without even putting all these things in there's still there's still a catch all at the bottom of this that says the report comes to us after it's been accepted and then it says and Under reporting under section three Under reporting the commission may reverse the manager's decision to accept or reject any donation or sponsorship so no matter what if it comes to us and we say we don't like it it's gone we do hold the ultimate Authority this is really I just don't think it look I'm here looking at the five of us and I think one thing and then I can project in 10 years from now and it's five different people and who knows and I still think that's these are the the sort of the safety nets you put in place because I don't think that any of us would say yes to something that we weren't really super comfortable with and we would we are very easy to ask people their opinion but I have sat on that side of this room when people up here were making decisions and not doing all those things and I don't want people in the future to I don't want it to be necessarily always so easy for them to do the wrong thing I've sat here I've sat here and watched it I I I understand I think but if if the people were elected by the residents then wouldn't it be the residents will to accept this okay well we're getting into I know we're there are lots of people who have been elected by people who then exhibit questionable Behavior what if okay I I have one more and then I'm done because you're all goingon to have your chance um um so how does this Brad this is not a something written in here I'm going to ask you about how does this impact explain to me what happens if I wanted to call Nike and say would you build us a pickle ball work so I'm a commissioner I'm allowed to do that where does where does all of this then come into play for if an individual wanted to solicit a donation for something you can do that it would then have to come to the manager and the manager would do his evaluation and then depending on what the item is he would either be able to approve it or not on his own and then report within five business days to the commission follow the policy his decision and then any commissioner um could put it on an agenda to either just discussion or to accept or to put on a motion to accept it or reject it so so anyone's allowed to go solicit donations but when and get someone to say yes but then the policy has to be followed after that yes so if you were to reach out to Nike and Nike agreed to build a pickle ball court Village then you would have a conversation either you would have a conversation with the manager got it or you would say to your whoever the representative that you spoke to Nike you know that works for Nike okay here's the manager's contact call him he takes it from here and let him work out the details and then we'll ultimately it'll if necessary it'll come to the commission for for consideration because you also have the right to accept a donation that's initially rejected by the manager as well so if if somebody were to come to the manager and say we want to donate whatever um and the manager says I don't think it's in the best interest to the Village no we're we appreciate it but no thank you the manager would have to report that just like an acceptance within five business days to to you all and he just basically would be a memo that would be sent out you know blind copy to all the Commissioners saying you know on such and such a date we were made this offer and here's my analysis based on our policy and I've either my decision was to either accept or reject it so he has to report it either way to us has to report either one because you have the right to reverse his decision as a as a collegial body okay that's how I that's the way I drafted this that's what's anticipate and that's for a donation up to what amount it's up to well his his authority in in in this particular draft is a donation up to 100 anything a value of 100,000 if that's what you're all comfortable with we could leave that um what happens if someone came to us with a donation of $500,000 he would have to come to the commission for you would have to approve it he doesn't have the authority it's no different than procurement so if it's over $10,000 and okay and if it's over $10,000 service or Goods he can't he has to come to you so if it's over that amount it has to come to us if it's under that amount he can accept or refuse it and we one of us could decideed we need to discuss that so within five days he would provide you a memo here's what the donation was here's what the criteria was I examine the criteria here's my opinion here's the action I took and say commissioner you you or vice mayor excuse me you receive it you and you go I don't agree I think it should be accepted or I think should be rejected and then you would put it on the agenda like any other agenda item that's perfect okay then my last request would be that it says in here somewhere and I'm projecting 10 years down the road when there's five people sitting up here who didn't know we and a manager who didn't even know we had this policy right and but it comes through to the commission I think this policy should be attached to should be sent to the commission along with it so everyone has a copy of the policy when they get their donation when they're advised of a donation you want me to put that in the yeah I think I think this policy should travel with it was that again I'm sorry 10 years from now uh someone comes with a donation and the manager has to report I accepted or denied this donation that when he sends that memo out that this policy is is part of that attachment it comes with it little bit easier about if the memo just references the policy in the that's fine whatever it is as long as it's in there so we know that there's a policy and everyone has a can get to it well you don't have a whole 10 page yeah or just a link to it in Muni code or wherever doesn't live in mun code but wherever it lives yeah yeah I can put something I just don't want Commissioners getting something and like like what is this okay that's all I have where not as bad as I thought it was gonna where does this what is it this um um coded so where would this it's it kept by the quote it's it's just a policy it's not an order I didn't hear what she asked the question was where would this be cified codified in a weight of to your point of down the road new managers Etc how do we even know that this exists well maybe I'm working off an assumption I'm working off an assumption that there's a policy manual there's a village policy manual this would be incorporated into that it would be kept it it' be kept with by the clerk the policy would be kept by the clerk okay and it could be poed online it I mean it could be made available to anybody who wants to see it Chris I don't know if you heard me on that so yeah I guess the question would be like where does it go where is this live right because it's it's it's all sort of its own document I mean we we can codify it by way of ordinance we can do it that way if that's all your desires um the only the only reason I was leaning more towards doing it as a policy as opposed to an ordinance is if if you want to make changes to it over the course of its life it's much easier to change of policy than it is to do it by resolution yes as opposed to two readings of an or correct but we can do it it some some municipalities have ordinances to address this as opposed to policies so that's really your desire of how you're most comfortable with this being but it would be if obviously if it's an ordinance it would be codified um so Brad can I ask you very quickly then because this is coming to us in resolu format to pass this um if we approve it now or do you need to go back and make the changes first and then come ask you I would ask you to um table it for somebody to make a motion to table it I can sit I can sit down with um vice mayor if if any of the other Commissioners want to have discussions with me we can do that and then what I can do is I can incorporate all the changes or all the proposed changes into one living document that we can can present to you at the new res you know the next time we hear it we can do it next month and um you all when you vote you could pick and choose the option so if commissioner Amsler has something a little bit different in the same provision as the vice mayor I can put them both in there you know comment by commissioner Amsler comment by vice mayor comment by mayor and then you all have it before you and you can you can vote on it as amended I think it' just be easier for me to yeah certainly and just so we you know we can look at it again make sure everything was in there rad we're we're adding the attorney verbiage right sorry say that again verbage right we're gonna add that yes of course I made a note for that conferring with the attorney and what I can do with with with all your permission is I I'll try to get it I'll try to meet with all of you as quickly as I can um and I even just individually send a draft to you so you guys have it you can I know it's a lot to read so um it's not that this one's not that big it's just again it turns into a big discussion it's got detail it's it's fairly detailed okay may I ask you one more question before we close this out Jonathan can I ask you one of course okay so explain to me how this now that there's a policy how does it work if let's say I'm going to keep using the the pickle ball court uh hypothetical um I decide I'm going to raise $90,000 because that's what we need to build a pickle pickle ball court and I go ask the cules and they say we'll give you a th000 bucks and I ask Linda and she says I'll give you 2,000 bucks and Linda says no um how does that turn how do all these things turn into a donation for this thing when you're going and raising money for how does that turn how does this policy apply to that or I'm going to go around and knock on doors and say give me all the change out of your purse and I'm raising money to build a pickleball court how does all of that happen I need some time to think about that okay so I mean each I mean off the top of my head I'm the lawyer off the top of my head each person that you reach out to that makes a donation would be a separate distinct donation that has a specific purpose to it so in other words Janie would be giving you $10,000 thank you very much and um and she would be giving you um giving the village X number of dollars um for the specific purpose of using it for the construction of the court so donation runs through this process it it would um that I mean that's the way this would the way it's drafted that would be anticipated I'm not sure I I'd have to think about it as to if there was a procedure I could that that concerns me a little bit because that could be come a big cumbersome thing that would almost prevent us from like raising money through lots of different ways to come up with $90,000 for a pickle ball court and I'm just thinking off the top of my head right now because I really didn't anticipate that so um I mean you could also you could technically treat it as one donation where it all comes in and some it's just being held until all the donations are in and then you you treat it as one large don donation from numerous donors and and take the entire donation amount and go through this process instead of each individual donation but I'm I'm just in my mind right now I I can't think about how to how to incorporate that into the policy I have uh one question uh related to cost so in the sense and I want to make sure I understood it so it it if the pickable work to come through through Nike to the example um they take they make the donation for the court itself then maintenance is a cost long term right so at this stage when does these costs associated with the donation come forward to the commission for approval so that would be that's part of the manager assuming that the and the pickle ball would be 990,000 so that would be under the manager's threshold correct so but but the cost of mains and longterm so but that that unless unless the donor is willing to pay the longterm term costs that is something that would be absorbed by The Village yes so one of the that's why we have um in the criteria that the manager has to use when when he makes the determination as to whether to accept the donation or not what is the cost what are the long-term cost to the Village to maintain that that item whatever it is so that's part of his his analysis as to whether they accept it or not right so so he accepted let's say he think that the whatever the costs the maintenance costs are are acceptable and he believes that they're in the best interest of the village and the village has because it has to be budgeted funds for it as well that's part of his consideration so let's say that that exists yeah or it's available and um because obviously be long term so it may not you're not going to plan it out through the budget um then he would do his memo within the five business days I'm accepting $90,000 from Nike um here here's here is the criteria um it's for a specific use of a pickle ball court I've I've analyzed the following criteria and determine that the the the M the maintenance costs the annual maintenance costs of the Court are X number of dollars the city the The Village has funds that are budgeted for this particular year and has the availability to budget funds in future years to maintain the courts they have a life they have a lifespan of of X I mean those are the considerations and he would put those in a memo um and if they're not in the memo that is something that you could bring to the commission and put on agenda and discuss yeah then you you talk them out and if you all decided to say you know what yeah we understand why you thought this was a good idea we don't think it is a good idea because the long-term maintenance costs are too much whatever it might be yeah you don't sponsorship you don't like the sponsorship don't like I mean obviously you couldn't do it by message because that might be might might be some First Amendment implications there but yeah but um yeah you you ultimately have the AL you all as a collegial body have the ultimate say the way this policy is drafted as to whether or not that donation and what the conditions are of the donation sometimes it's very direct and sometimes it's indirect that we can let it go through without anyone objecting to it you could yeah okay right I me each individual commissioner is going to make that decision of their own because If You by virtue of you saying no I don't need to put this I'm not going to put this on the agenda then the manager does what he's authorized to do by policy all right and anybody can put it on the agenda it doesn't have to be any one commissioner can say put it on an agenda to for discussion just like any other discussion item okay that makes me feel good so if there's no other for now if there's no other comment let's go ahead and I'll make a motion to table it um and then with the understanding that we're all going to work on this back us and yeah no you can just do a motion to table it's discussion it's in discussion okay so I'll go ahead and I'll move to table with with those conditions and open for a second okay all in favor I okay thanks Brad thanks Chris um so let's go ahead and get to our amended discussion items the first of which which we move to the top is going to be 13d which is our discussion on discussion on adding the police officers traffic enforcement uh we have our chief and we have our deputy chief here um so if uh I don't know if you'll you want to be available to to discuss but um first things first is we'll go ahead and and ask Chris to introduce the item for us because it was uh the direction that he bring this information to us I believe absolutely the question was asked at the last I believe it was the last CIP meeting it could have been the commission meeting as to how much it would cost to have two additional traffic officers so um that's a question we posed to our Police Department um and the answer is we would be spending approximately $38 per hour um that's including wages taxes FS as well as vehicle fuel um as I shot out an email later on this afternoon earlier this afternoon I should say there were two typo so the cost per officer at 20 hours a week would be 39520 per year um the cost for the two officers so two officers working the same traffic detail 20 hours a week would be uh $79,000 40 per year okay so the updated number is 79,000 that's two officers how many hours a week 20 20 each correct we have to have two officers running traffic um for safety reasons as well as uh just operational radar reasons we need one running that r one running that radar unit and then the other ready to uh intercept I'm not sure what the proper term is so have there been um have you had made any kind of initial considerations about where the money would come from or or how we would fund those two roles those two positions Mr Winkle John you are still on I see um so we don't have the available funds in the police department budget or admin or code to absorb this we would need to pull These funds from someplace else so that someplace else would be the capital Improvement plan or uh and the reason I wanted to chat with Mr Winkle John is is this something that we could change we currently set aside I believe 75% for the emergency fund is that something that we could tweak um to use $80,000 from that for this purpose yeah you your ordinances require uh a budget amendment for that type of you know for it that's a policy shift um there's probably ways to look at it but but typically yeah you'd have I believe that's really a legal question what about we've already talked a little bit about this what about the seizure funds what about what the the seizure funds the the funds that that I again I know there was a little I think we can both agree that we can't use those for labor can't um a salary there there's certain circumstances where you can pay salaries but you can't pay normal operating and again from what you had said earlier the idea of kind of moving those funds around and then it's kind of out the window right we we can't use the seizure funds if we wanted to move something around within the police budget and then kind of supplemented with the seizure funds correct right so um and I just had the section up me one sec sure while he's looking for that Chris could the seizure funds be used for some of the hard cost asso assciated there were costs in here for uniforms and other things it could be used for that because those are not in the budget and those are not labor related is that correct so could help us in a little way that I'm gonna get back to you on just to go back to what we were talking about originally and looking at the guide when it talks of supplantation um it says um Equitable shared funds which is what we're talking about must be used to increase or supplement the resources of the receiving State local R trial enforcement agency share fund shall not be used to replace or Sur plant the agency's appropriated resources um and the example they give a police department receives $100,000 in federal equal sharing only have its budget cut by 100,000 by the city council in this instance the police department has received no direct benefit from the Equitable sharing whatsoever it's the city that received the uh the benefit and therefore that would be considered supplantation so you can't as I said before you can't decrease the the police department budget and nor nor can you oh you no you're not talking in your microphone sorry you cannot so as I was saying um you cannot decrease you cannot use these funds to decrease the police department's current budget You' have to use it as a supplemental source of income but what you can do is you can move around line items within the police department and use the shared funds so let's say for instance you had $100,000 earmarked the purchase police vehicles and you need to buy you also need to buy a $100,000 worth of I don't know software or equipment you can say okay I'm going to take that line item and move the 100,000 to something else within the police budget and then use the shared funds to purchase the other items that you need for police that's kind of a like sneaky supplantation it's not because like I said before the way they look at it is a macro they look at a macro view of the budget not a micro view the budget increased so the budget went up okay it was 100,000 now there's 200,000 and you're buying new stuff that you weren't that wasn't originally budgeted for so that's that's the way that's the way they look at it so for example we could use it for something you could either do that kind of maneuvering or something a brand new purchase and things like we wanted body pams that would be it's not in our budget we don't currently have it would be a brand new thing you can purchase um I believe um I believe from my memory you can purchase you can actually law enforcement equipment is a is a permissible use is what they call it and uniforms are part of a permissible use okay and um I was looking at salaries that you can use it for certain salaries but it's very limited let me ask you a question could you and this is a question I'm going to I'm going to be asking these guys in a second anyway and maybe I'm not sure who the questions for quite honestly if we wanted to do this are we obligated to add it to our budget permanently or could we do like a pilot program of it and say we'll do it for the second half of this fiscal year effective April 1 there's six months left in the fiscal year it'll be half that amount that we're looking at and it's a pilot study and then they'll report back and we'll see what they accomplish for us and da da da da da and then we decide at that point at budget time for next year if we're going to continue it Brad is that a new use in the budget because it's a it's a not these are new officers I'm just thinking out loud here they're new officers and a new use that we never had before added to the budget the budget went up as a result I'm listening I'm reading at the same time so you understand where I'm going with this I I I do bookkeeping creative book well in a sense you know I hate to use that with the with the feds listening because it's um yes but the the matter is you can move money around like that so yeah I wouldn't call it creative bookkeeping that makes you're allowed to do that but you're allowed to take money within the police budget and move it around and say we didn't have money to do this so we're going to take this money and put it here and we're going to use the shared funds to do that's not exactly what I'm saying I'm saying is these guys would take two Reserve officers and make them part-time officers those are new officers and a new in a new use that we never had before because we don't have a traffic detailer whatever you call this so it's a new use it's new people it's all new new new and added on top of a current budget in this fiscal year and it's a pilot study kind of a thing so I get two using the shared funds to pay the salaries of these that's what I'm asking could you considering that it's this new stuff no and it's okay still it's still a wage okay and are can we do this in a uh in a short-term kind of a way and and test it is that a POS are we allowed to do that are we allowed to come up with this and say add these two-p parttime employees on do it for six months report back and let's see how it goes and not be not be committed to it long term well you're not using the money you're not using the shared funds to pay I'm talking separate from that I'm just saying can we do that could we authorize yes we want to do this for the next six months and see how it goes and we'll watch the reports and see what's going on and see what we get for this in the general sense yes I mean how you move the money around and how you label it is going to be very important okay but in the general sense yes separate from this money remove that it's not using this found money it's just okay so yeah but we can do that we can okay you could you could have a pilot program where you you fund two officers for six months or a year to do traffic nothing but traffic enforcement and then you make an assessment as to whether or not you're going to keep that program in place or you're going to say no it it hasn't been effective and we we don't want to pay for it anymore I mean I think the officers themselves are still they're they're Reserve officers chief that you're using or are you hiring new hires you may have to may we might need you to speak can we just kind of have him like explain to him how that so that was actually G to be my next question you could explain how you you foresee it working I can sit and we can have further discussion I think key here is Sur plant right so not we're not talking about this money think we moved away from we're not talking about money anymore we're not talking about that okay we're backing up we're talking about just the program itself and whether the program itself would work that either we can revert to reserve officers that are already trained in the usage of the raid speed or measurement uh equipment or we can go out outside the department and recruit those officers that have that specific training it is extremely difficult to obtain that training because we're competing this is a two-e training and we we compete with every Department in Miami day County so the fact that we're able to recruit people that have that training is a big advantage on our on our part and we have people so we we just got to make sure that we have enough turnover from reserves that want to enter the part-time program well that was you have that now do you have two right now that are certified or whatever it is that could do it in reserve we have Reserve officers that are certified in radar measurement um but um we're still working on to see if they're they would like to convert to the part-time program I don't have the answer I I can't sit here and say 100% I have both of them let me ask you a question in regards to something that Mack asked about um making this perhaps something not permanent but like a pilot program uh I'm assuming that there are some kind of Union regulations here when you're when you're moving people from Reserve Reserve into a part-time role now um I I don't know anything about how the unions work and but is that something that you can do uh say you know if we want to do a pilot program and and and six months later we say hey we don't like it we don't think it's really working um can we go back and uh change that is that is that is is is there any Union issues there yeah so to answer that question part-time program part-time officers and full-time officers are recognized by the union but here's a catch if it's a pilot program and it's within six months we we revert to the right that they're still on probation and if we abolish the program then then they could revert back to so that's what we have is it's a six-month window to make a decision on whether we want to continue it or we want to not continue correct and and the discussion I would like to have with the attorney and if we're not s planting then I you know these are funds for completely brand new brand new officers brand new thing in the past from my experience back in the city of Miami it was something that as long as you know are planning you can add it to your budget so your budget just you're saying you could because these are new officers in your previous experience you were able to spend it on that correct correct so but I I'm not gonna I'm not going to um second guess our attorney I want to work with our attorney and I want to make sure that everything we do is legal ethically and morally correct That's the basis to everything that I work on those premis so ask Chief the chief and I could talk about it the the way you essentially would do it is what we were talking about before so you would take you would take money that was earmarked for another police project and transfer that to a line item for the salaries of of new officers if that's what you're doing and then what you would do is you would take the shared funds and use those funds for the permissible per let's say it was equipment because which is permissible to purchase the the the the um the equipment that you were going to use the original earmarked money for and that's not surlan thing so I mean that's that's the way most departments will do it that makes sense Chief very quickly in your opinion do you have Reserve officers that would be interested in this thing first before we go that far do you have two guys that you could two officers that you could say they are comfortable with the idea of going into a pilot program for many months with the understanding that it may not be continued they may have to go back down to reserve that would be something that um when I if this program moves forward then I would present that to the uh employees and uh have them make that decision at that time we do have an um a large group of Reserve officers that allows me to provide not just the minimum Staffing here two officers a day but three and four and that's why you're seeing an abundance of traffic enforcement out there as we're speaking they're making a traffic arrest um so we do have that so I'm hoping and that's the direction I want to go in is to recruit within so we can get them out there as quick as possible do you since you're up here talking about it you weren't at the meeting when it first came up and and Deputy Steele came and I asked him kind of on the put him on the spot and said right now well sorry he he did a fine job he came up with an idea that's really interesting us uh and I said what would you do right now that would make a difference and he said this do you think this would make a difference as well having absolutely everything that we can do to make an an immediate impact is helpful I mean we already started putting strategies in place where we're having more traffic details on a daily basis so anything we could do with these officers you're talking about two officers that are here 20 hours a week two of them that's 40 hours just for just just for traffic and it frees up the other ones to do the regular police corre so so our guards not down in any way by having these okay yeah so a lot of people say well ask well there's not a lot to do here well the officers besides when the the calls they answer we do a lot of watch orders we do a lot of visibility patrolling as you see them they they write write around with their lights believe it or not it's a huge deterrent if you're stuck if okay let me reverse if if you have someone stopped and you're stuck on a traffic on a traffic uh stop you can't just abandon that stop and leave for a call unless it's extremely critical okay so because it's an a safety issue and you're not going to leave a motor stranded in the middle of street till you you don't know when you're getting off that car so that's very very important we're going to dedicate these officers solely for traffic I I had a question Chief so into that is uh so I've seen it I've seen it I think people have said it before during comments um we see more visibil there is more visibility there is more um definitely something's changed right so I wanted to ask you that so what's changed versus what we were doing before that is working um and makes me wonder do we need more right because it's working in the sense of providing the visibility and so the the next thing and I think um to the point of measurement after is where you know we can increase the budget and provide that we have additional officers helping us with traffic um the next question is going to be how do we measure how are we doing um so I'm trying to understand from what we used to do and what's changed since you know things kind of Shuffle up a a little bit and how this new two officers will kind of blend into the new strategy you have in place okay so that's a that's a great question so first and foremost I want to say this that I'm very thankful to the residents that continue to support us that worked with us that have brought these issues up that have for the last six years I've been here have been totally dedicated to so helping the police department the commission and everybody with these traffic issues this is a priority here I'm not blinded by that and every year we try to improve improve what we're doing out here the strategies that we're doing out here so first of first and foremost I thank the residents I commend them I never take anything personal here everything is about business so yeah every comment is a positive comment to me and you build from that and you try to make it constructive so we'll we'll begin that platform second all when uh deputy chief steel came and presented his presentations it was very structured it talked about traffic enforcement traffic caling which is part of the discussion today technology talked about traffic traffic safety and traffic studies and it talked about safety zone and safety swes okay it's a holistic plan so what has changed chief that we're taking this into a whole new approach we want to attack not we're not going to get we're not going to solve this problem by ticking ticking our way out of it it's never ever going to happen it's not going to happen here it hasn't happened anywhere we are going to do traffic enforcement but ticketing is just one facet of this whole plan the plan has to Encompass other things yeah so when uh our attorney was talking about technology we had a sidebar there's technology out there that can help us with with the traffic with the traffic situation including what's being brought up with the traffic cing I honestly believe I have full faith that with these measures that the commission is going to take with the uh traffic calming bringing in technology in the future which is the money that we're going to get from the feds okay and there's no s planting there that doesn't exist more speed boards uh there's technology out there that now measures speeds uh people speeds and those who are running stop signs and and they send the videos to us there's a lot of Technology out there um creating safety swes or safety zones and everything the commission has talked about and the residents have spoken they want to be able to walk the streets and transient the streets whether you're on bike pets children or just exercise and that's a right that's a right that we need to preserve here so I I think this is that's the motivation that's what's changed I think the fact that I see now at the there's light at the end of the tunnel if we really put a holistic plan that encompasses a couple of things because police by itself ticketing is not it's not a a a viable solution and I think that's that's very not by itself I'm sorry I apologize not by you said it I'm just reinforcing not by itself not by no and I think that's where my point was going we've we've talked about so many things with the CIP you see the impact of $30,000 how big it it is for us I mean we currently have in the CIP I think 30 I was looking into $30,000 for the beginners of Road repairs we've been talking about uh which are critical as well so for the first time we're looking at this holistic in a more holistic way 360 you will and there's a lot coming towards and there's going to be a lot of other things being implemented you know that we're going to be discussing tonight so that's what makes me wonder still you believe this is the best approach to have a full two full-time employees it's two right two part time part time so it makes up one sorry correct and that would be for $40,000 a year $80,000 a year 40 40 per officer so 80 so 880,000 it's it's a big take for us having that said and and and and I want to touch base on that because it is you know there is a lot to be done so $80,000 is going to be taken away if things have been changing which I I mean I see it people spoke about it tonight and I think with more things coming our way the question is do we need it for the long term so I like the idea of the six months period of yeah check it out checking it out but that's why the next followup question with how do we measure how we're doing how how do we address this is is it because we don't get hear from residents complaining about traffic and they so how do we how do other cities do it you know I mean not to answer for you but I mean we know we have data now on how many tickets are being written and we have that and we can compare it at the end of six months and see what kind of change did we see in the number of tickets written right there's some data we can look at for me for me exactly what I was saying yeah if I can jump in for one second it's it's not about the number of tickets um one of the conversations that I frequently have with our Police Department is contacts so that may be a citation that may be somebody over issuing a warning that may be a number of different things all of that is something we can look at that's all data yeah and and it's also visibility I'm sure we'll hear it from the residents for me it's if you are given I mean if we see less ticketing it's working right eventually that's where you want to see if you have less ticket in happening it's because it's working so that's not where we are we're hoping now that we're getting more tickets but the people start to see more police activity going around all the deterrence we're talking about and things kind of become more of a norm to be careful and you know slow down So eventually we'll see less and that's why I I wanted to bring this up because the perception of going into increasing ticketing increasing in you know police presence equals more ticketing and as a result we're doing more I'm hoping it's longterm the contrary that we're able to maybe maintain a certain level of safety that we're comfortable with with the levels of data that we have and that's correct that's why we discussed up here a holistic plan because it's going to Encompass more than just yeah enforcement but to quote uh commissioner Kennedy the question he posed to the deputy chief was what do you recommend or what do you suggest that we can do immediately to begin to have an impact because the residents want to feel that they can use our streets walk our streets transi our streets and feel that they're not going to get run over okay bottom line and I don't sleep at nights just thinking about the whole scenario believe it or not it's something that I take to heart because that would be a complete nightmare can I I'm sorry Chief can I ask you a question no leis is fine no um Chief leis um on a on an hour by hour basis what are these officers going to be doing are they going to be standing there with a radar gun somewhere or are these also officers who are certified to like monitor speeding but visually no it's radar certified radar okay so are they going to be stationed somewhere for certain the goal will be sort of paint a picture of what this looks like so the goal will be to have both mobile mobile Radars and stationary Radars so they we can we can have them roaming the the streets of the village radaring word but you know what I mean yeah the Troopers have and the raidar are have the capability of measuring speed not only in front but behind you oh so they have that capability and um so that's that's that's the plan and the plan is also for them because we're not just going to do speed we have an issue with with uh compliance with stop signs you know have them monitor you know uh you know compliances while our stop sign it does nothing if you're traveling 15 miles an hour but decide that you're just going to roll through the stop sign the poor runner now it's crossing the street exactly you know yeah um Chris I have a question for you monopolizing this conversation I know but I have a question for you Chris at the beginning of the meeting you told us about all the stuff that you brought back from the mikasuki mikasuki tribe um and some of that you're planning to use and some you're going to use for parts and some is going to be do you have any if let me just ask you the big question if we decided now that we wanted to do this and we were going to try it for six months and that dollar amount that we needed would be 40,000 right to do it for six months did you bring back $40,000 worth of stuff that you can sell I don't can you give us an idea what any of that might be worth if you started selling it off could you sell stuff off and help pay for this because you're planning to sell some of this right auction it or whatever you do yes so because it is an auction I can't tell you specifically what it's worth I can take a guess I believe we were between three and 5,000 each my Public Works director is agreeing three and $5,000 each for what per vehicle oh and how many are there we have a total of 20 so let's say that we would or 18 I'm sorry let's say that we would auction off keep eight auction off 10 that would be 30 to 50,000 well right there almost pays for our pilot study huh I would have to have some conversations with our attorney and budget as to how that might work so taking the proceeds from auction and funding additional officer positions this pilot if we called it a pilot study six months what they prescribed we need 40 Grand can he auction that stuff off to pay for it so it would go into the general fund uhhuh then you'd have to do a budget amendment okay that's for the money okay line item so we could do a budget budget amendment now to take money out of the general fund to fund this get it going and then Chris could replenish the general fund with the proceeds from the auctions you could but um we you don't know what you don't know what you're getting back I understand that I understand that but I'm saying is we could if we had the appetite to do it we could say $40,000 a six-month pilot study take it out of the general front get them started on April one that gives us six months in this fiscal year Chris starts selling Chris and one start selling stuff and it goes back into the general fund and we hope that they come up with 40,000 if they fall $5,000 short you know we ate it but we but we got our pilot study going I'm trying to figure out a way to get this going um yeah I'm I'm that makes me extremely nervous and the reason is if there happens to be a fire over at public works tonight that wipes out all those Vehicles we have nothing getting the money already guys we're still getting the money from uh so we could I'm just I'm looking at different ways we could do it because they have to maneuver that other money around it's still gonna be it's gonna still be there we're gonna get it one way or another we're gonna get it I mean and and and we're not spending it all in one day I mean this is six months so and we could pull the plug on it anytime we wanted it if it looked like it wasn't doing anything we could cancel the pilot study right listen to me this is a no-brainer we can keep talking about this the entire night but to me this is a no-brainer side I think so too don't I don't know why we're still we if if I can interrupt we need to have the attorney and I need to have some discussions about this this plan for the additional officers what that might mean um operationally there's other concerns that we have to discuss before we pull the trigger in something like this tonight um yeah we need to sit down the manager and I and the chief need to sit down and talk about how you're going to staff those positions and what Po and what potential effects that has on job descriptions and and um them being paid and and then potentially not being paid and things like that we we need to talk about that okay if we wanted to do a I'm trying to figure out a way to get to go here if we wanted to do this and we wanted to start at April 1 to give us six months in this current fiscal year as a pilot study can we get that done in the next month and have it back here at the April 2 meeting do do we have to approve this Chris or is it something we just say we would like you to do this and you go do it oh we already know the cost right mean is it have to come to us as a resolution or something so if if if they were to move forward with it and and my understanding is from the conversations we've all had is there is not funding in the in the police department's budget to to pay for for it we would have to come back with a budget amendment for those funds to be put into the police department into that particular line item so you would have to be moving money from some other place and in in other situations if I can interrupt the uh we can do a reserve transfer by resolution and allow that as long as it's within the the T the category of of uh Reserve fund and then we at the end of the year we're going to have to do a budget amendment any anyway so we can wrap that up as a as part of the budget process then to be clear we can next meeting we can have a resolution in front of us that will launch this thing I'm look I'm cutting corners and I'm just corre but if we can have a resolution in front of us and maybe some recommendations on how the seizure funds could help us if they can or just some recommendations on how how things can be moved to to pay for it it sounds like there's some Financial stuff that'll have to happen behind us to get this all cleaned up straightened up good to go get a resolution he'd like to get it going we can get a res I would yeah there with the with the caveat that there are some legal issues that we need to work through but generally speaking yes absolutely we can do that now so are talking about a six-month tryy out or that's what I'm talking about that's what I'm thinking to that's what I'm thinking I'm very happy with six months starting April one through the end of September April May June July August September that's six months guess it's through the end of the fiscal year we start our budget conversations we may have an indication how it's going if it's we want a budget for to continue we see how it goes so Chief if I may if the commission decides at the April meeting to move forward with this plan is it possible to get it implemented how quickly can that be done what would that look like from your perspective operationally operationally basically I would have to identify the officers that will be assigned I would call this it's a pilot program a traffic traffic detail you know we can change the name later but it'll be solely for traffic and um that's basically it we would have to work out if there's any issues with the Union which I don't foresee anything right now from here yeah we have to have a discussion um and then you know the parameters that the manager is going to implement but I I think it's doable we have the vehicles available as well yes okay are these steps that you can get started on now so by the time we're hopefully pass absolutely work on that in March or April meeting starting tomorrow morning we'll we'll start trying to identify the Personnel that's the most important thing this is another silly question officer Jones is out there on traffic detail tomorrow and she sees someone chasing someone down the street with a gun she's on traffic detail she can go be a regular cop and go do the job that has to get done absolutely okay good so um then what I'd like to propose uh for a majority vote is that you start looking into those those figures for us to consider and that we uh the manager and the attorney work together to put together a resolution um to approve the six-month pilot program to bring these two officers in in a part-time basis to uh to act in traffic as traffic enforcement well I don't know that need a resolution for that no I'm saying finances okay if that's fine I think we got it okay so that's what I would then I I right now I say would put to the commission if we have majority uh vote on that then just if if I can just get a clarification um is this then to have two officers working 20 hours a week on traffic or are you looking at approving like a blanket amount of $40,000 whatever that would look like just so I have the specifics yeah I think it's officers I think the way yep the way that's been prosed yep I agree so absolutely good okay so then do we have consensus on that yes [Music] hello agreed okay great good well we'll look forward to seeing that in April and we'll look forward to more information from from you Chief and deputy chief on on what it'll look like for us um okay so having concluded our 13d let's go ahead and move on to our next amended item which is uh 13A uh in conjunction with 12d because I think it'll kind of complement um so really 13A is is the interlocal agreement uh there's a lot of backup I know there was a lot most of that was samples in in contracts that were provided by the county there was a lot of reading um it was really more uh to support the attorney in his efforts to draft get working on drafting something um so this started at at the commission uh the county commissioner's office um her chief of leg her Chief legislative Aid had brought it up to me and said that the county has an interlocal agreement we I we talked a lot about the challenges that we face and um the the difficulties in in timing in getting a traffic study procuring the money for it getting it done then going to the county identifying the it's it's a long process and I was like there's got to be a faster way to do this so they brought up this idea of an interlocal agreement the inter very generally and kind of well more essentially what the the local interlocal agreement does is it grants The Village the ability to control certain aspects of of traffic um now they do differentiate between um traffic mitigation and traffic calming measures uh and you can see from the right up there that those traffic mitigation is is kind of more hard things things like stop sign things like oneway streets things like closing offroads those are things that are not controllable through interlocal agreements traffic calming measures are really more and it's it's all of these it's not one of these it's it's speed bumps speed humps rumble strips um um crosswalks raise crosswalks and that's why it your item ties into this commissioner amler um traffic circles these are all things that we can get control of and and kind of dictate and and work through on our own if we have an interlocal agreement in place the county basically just says go ahead you take it you run with it um now someone did point out earlier is there kind of a downside to this there is but I'm not so certain that we're affected by it the downside really is if if we say in this intersection right here we want to put a traffic circle in our interlocal agreement they say yes okay fine uh we then of course have to plan for it uh we have to we have to do our due diligence you know there's still a planning element to doing these things and and setting up engineering and and going through bids but again we control we control that aspect right however in that intersection if the county or do was providing us funds for anything they wouldn't do it anymore we signed the agreement they basically say our hands are off you control you pay for you maintain that intersection or it's impacts The Village at that point where we control the measures where we correct that spot so now I don't think that we're getting any County funds this is something that we had talked about before bringing the item up I don't think we're getting any any funding or any maintenance or anything from the county or do2 as it is so I don't think this really is a consideration we need to be and CIT is not part of that correct CIT is not part of that we're 100% certain of that that's what the county has represented to us that didn't sound like 100% certain so who can tell us it's 100% certain I don't know the answer to that question the county has represented to that and us to us that that is not the case yeah that was the first question I asked a big one CIT invoked they said no so that's another thing that that Brad and I thought about was you know the the county is representing to us through our discussions with the commissioner with her chief of staff and with the Traffic Engineers the dot Traffic Engineers we had calls with them we've gone back and forth of emails with them and they say you can Loosely describe whatever traffic combing measures you want within the agreement and we'll just say okay great you run with it it sounded a little scary to me especially when you look at this backup you look at how Det H this information is I brought that up the I think the Miami Gardens one I said Miami Gardens is very specific they have engineering plans they they had their traffic study I think Brad you brought up to me they had a lot of information and then the county said okay great go with it the tra the the County Traffic Engineers have represented represented to us that we do not need that level of so what they recommended was Brad start working on what an agreement would look like based on the samples that we have he can generally describe all of the traffic calming measures that we want to deploy here in the village and they represented again to us over the phone and by email that they will work with us to make sure that the agreement passes legal sufficiency so when it's in a draft that's ready to go that they say this is good we can come right back to them we can come with the resolution because there's a draft resolution in there as well we vote on the resolution the agreement's already done they've already basically said yes otherwise it won't come back to us so they've already said yes we know that it's going to be approved and then it goes to the county it gets signed it's entered then we can all start working on where do these things go where do we want to plan to have them where are they most effective we we kind of start and that's when we work with residents we don't need that level of spe specificity going into it no we do not we do not need that right that part we're sure on uh that's that's what the Count's told us now on to that point what my understanding is leaving that conversation with the the County Traffic Engineers was if that's not the case if we go to the city or we go to the county with the agreement drafted as as it's been drafted as we've kind of been directed that it will work if they come back and say no there's all these other problems well now Brad's going to have to come back and say well guess what the county was wrong we have to do these additional things but again right now what the county has told us we can draft it very generally and we can say speed well you I'm paraphrasing of course you know you have your work to do too speed humps speed bumps rumble strips um traffic circles crosswalks raise crosswalks we can just identify these list them no location enumerate them and they will say fine you're good go ahead then we get into the planning stages of working with the residents to say where are the problems working with the police to say where are the problems that's when we can kind of the community can put their hands on it and I am remiss to to that I did not mention I agree that the residents having brought this forward it never would have got this far if the residents hadn't so thank you to all of the residents so um I apologize I meant to leave with that um I just got excited so that's that's where we stand right now the idea at this point in in the vote that we're looking for the consensus that we're looking for is simply to have Brad continue drafting this agreement with the understanding that the county has given to us work with the county to make sure that is legal sufficient bring it back to us with a draft that's the county has said okay you're good to move forward and a draft of the resolution so that's the idea because we will not get into the actual planning and and deploying these measures until we have the agreement with the county so that's that's the idea that was a long way of getting to where I needed to get but it was it's been a lot of work and and they've been very receptive and very helpful you send an email and they get back to us within the hour so they're they're I think they probably have an element of great let them take it we don't have have to worry about it this also uh this also does not affect um the the county and state roads so you're you're griffing you're six we we can't touch those so someone else had mentioned earlier traffic studies we still do need a traffic study we still need to continue going through the Safe Streets grant to get the traffic study get it paid for because that will allow us to deploy traffic mitigation measures anywhere in the village stop signs um road closures one ways those things we cannot touch but also out on the county and the state roads the the traffic data through the traffic study will help us on those areas so this is more the the kind of inside the inter Village roads but it's a start and it's a start on something that we can now maintain control over and we don't have to worry about the county getting and I don't mean it getting in the way for anyone at the county county being the gatekeeper so that's the idea uh go to the manager and go to to the attorney to make sure that I covered everything correctly yes right the only thing if I may the only thing I would add is and the manager and and the mayor have seen a a working copy the agreement with the county in in draft form is probably about 95% done I was able to get it done wasn't able to get it on the agenda in time but it's done um is that thank you yeah I didn't I can't hear you I'm sorry but what did verica what did you say oh I'm sorry so from guidance from you all and by way of consensus is that as the mayor said we have we do have to list as an exhibit the types of traffic caling devices that we want to use um what my suggestion is and I did a little research and I came up with some I've never seen before never heard of before but uh they all exist um we're not you're not obligated to use any any of them but I was going to do an all-inclusive list of those types even something called a realigned intersection which I doubt very much anybody's going to want to do but uh I'm going to put it in there um trffic murals which is a kind of a new wave now for traffic caling where they you can hire an artist or or a company to literally paint a mural in an intersection and there are studies that say that that some reason beyond my understanding but it'll actually slow people down going through intersections um the hell's that I don't know if it's I don't know if it I I'm not sure to me it would be a distraction but I read a St I read a study this afternoon that that says that it it actually does importantly sorry I don't I don't want to interrupt but importantly the county made this very clear to us if we only list speed bumps crosswalks raise crosswalks it that's all that's approved that's all that's approved we have to go back and amend it and start all over again so over inclusive again represent what has been represented To Us by the county being over inclusive is better for us so and just other than the obvious ones that you're aware of which are raised intersections raised crosswalks yeah um um speed bumps speed humps speed tables realigned um intersections which is basically what they do is at the intersection instead of an intersection being like this one of the roads goes like that c through the intersection they have some down here in Davis Harbor okay how about tax strips um sorry tax strips was a joke tax strips actually will work so I was planning on adding them there's lateral shift Lanes which basically the the lanes sway um again like I said some of these things I don't know that you want to take on because they're major construction projects but I'm going to put them there so that they're an option all um as well as the street murals I'm going to put on there as well balloons everything balloons I can add that too so one that goes like this so yes so um I will add all those on a list and um submit submit the draft because that's pretty much what's left for me to do is is the list those um those traffic devices then we can submit it to the county let them review it um I know there's there is a discussion as to what's required um before you do the actual installation but I'm we're going to I think what I'll do because I I I can tell you that the the agreements that were provided by the county for me to use as go Buys in the warehous Clauses um indicate that the municipality is is allowed to perform the functions conducting engineering studies for the feasibility of traffic cing devices and installing those devices um it's there the understanding I got from our conversations at the mayor and the manager and I had some of the representatives from the county is we didn't need a feasibility study but the agreements referenc them um the not be a requirement we just going to get some clarity from the county I'll get some clarification for that um I know in in several of the agreements that is in the warehouse clauses I know Miami Beach already had done their study which was attached to their agreement which is why I believe it wasn't mentioned in in their agreement and the same thing with the city of Miami agreement that I saw that's something I'm going to have to get clarifi can I ask some other it sounds like we're going to do this can I ask some other questions of course so um first of all Jonathan thank you for sort of bringing this to us I know but other people were working on it it's very much been a group effort and um just nice of someone to point out that art and I have been trying to shove this through for a while so I here are a couple of big questions this almost sounds too good to be true and when something's too good to be true my 62y old brain tells me there's something up something's up so I'm trying to figure out where's the catch in this so I have some questions in those regards if we get this and they say yes to that whole long list of things that Brad's going to put in there and we can't move forward because we don't have money or we don't move forward because we change our mind or we start and run out of money and we have to stop does that mean we can never go back to the county and ask them for that help again that wasn't the understanding that I had from the discussions with the county that these are not permanent but can we can terminate there's a provision in the agreement for termination so you can terminate this agreement with the county by giving 20 day 20 business days written not and and do they have to accept the termination Yes sounds like it's a unilateral so I mean but to the extent what what'll happen is to the extent that you've installed any traffic coming devices under this agreement uhhuh you will maintain the responsibility we're responsible for them for the word maintain twice but it'll be your responsibility to maintain them for their life okay so we can get out of this thing yes while we have it can we still ask them for help on those kinds of things we don't have enough money to put all the speed bumps in but we need some more in certain areas can we go to them and say we have this thing we ran out of money can you put some in for us our traffic study indicates that we need it I don't know that it would preclude us from asking but the again the communication it was it's it's it's it's on you guys now then we own it the agreement anticipates you take so under their code of ordinances they have exclusive jurisdiction for this type of um traffic cing management and they are relinquishing the extent that you now own it okay they're relinquishing that jurisdiction to the to the municipality and then we can cancel it anytime we want to we can but I but I would I think the mayor is correct that if in if we have this agreement in place and we're operating under this agreement and then the village tries to say well hey can you help us with this they're probably going to say no you took it over here's what the agreement no I'm going to say no that's one scenario the other scenario is we're out of money we can't do this it's out it's just too big of a thing for us we're out we're going to use our 20 days then they have complete control again and we we where we are sitting here as we're sitting here right now we're in the same situation right we for the ones that we've theing devices that we' we're still responsible for them or maintain them okay as long as we um has anyone talked to any of these other cities that have these and have rolled things out to find out what the any of the downsides may have been oh we didn't anticipate this oh this is now a problem for us has anyone talked to anyone to find out people who have gone before us we're not the Trailblazers on this has anyone talked to them to find out how it's working what unintended consequences there were that they hadn't anticipated I hadn't spoken with the municipalities that we had here I did share with elport because I know they're going through the same traffic issues as us didn't really get much of respones than than yeah um but I'd be happy to call them up and and ask I think it might be worthwhile asking because you never know what you're going to find out like yeah we're glad we did it but we didn't anticipate this was going to happen and geez the expense of this was something we hadn't anticipated and budgeted for you never know hopefully you find out everything's hunky dory and you know it it it's all just swell I'm sure you know it scales right it scales on how big these these these measures are you know if we have a speed again if the efficacy is another question but if we put a speed bump in you know what's the maintenance cost they put in for example Miami Gardens they put in a giant you know rotunda that had all the the plants and the green space and everything you know maintenance there different than maintenance right yeah okay um the CIT I really want to hear a very firm answer on that that's like my big concern is CIT that was the first question they again they said no um I I certainly welcome in your discussions U Brad with the county to just confirm that that we aren't that CIT like something in W impact I mean if it's not just like someone saying it on a phone call but something in writing because we can't afford to have our CIT money messed with we went through that before years ago and it took us a long time to get that cleaned up and we're budgeting that money to be spent in Year's future so we need to make sure we don't step on that what other abilities might we lose what other liabilities do we gain it's just I'm trying to figure out what the downside might be here the only again the only ability that or or The only positive thing that we would have lose again from what they told us is is you it's your main it's your responsibility so to to the effect that or to the extent that the county was assisting us they would no longer do so and that was a discussion that we Hadis us to assist right well that that was the discussion that I had with the manager right away that same day I think was I don't think they're doing anything on these these inter Village roads so okay we should be covered this is one less right exactly that's their advantage one less thing they have to worry about does this in any way impact our septic sewer rose stuff in any way and only to the effect I would imagine that we have a traffic cming measure on a street that needs to be torn up to then put in the sewer um and you also do take on all the liability and and indemnify the by the county which I think uh and I don't want to put words in your mouth Chris I think that was something that was brought up with the carrier was if if there were was that something that was discussed with the carryer where if there was liability over a traffic calming measure damages or injuries uh that's something that's covered generally speaking yes it's covered and if the county were installing them Chris are they liable for that or would we be liable for them anyway because they're in the village if the county came in here and put uh speed humps in who carries the liability for them when the county installs them is it the counties or is it ours because it's in our village Dakota very intelligent attorney I know anybody can sue for anything um as far as I may have been I may have been referring to our mayor on that one we had a discussion similar to that and and it you know after a long time in litigation you know somebody could get hurt on our roads and come and Sue all of us we could all be named not us individually but not sovereign immunity for the village but whatever going after the Village um and you know we could get pulled into litigation at any time for that type of thing and then we have to fight it we have to defend it we have to spend the money on defending it but that's what the carrier is for the carrier has a litigation defense budget provide to us I mean the county to your to answer your question depending on what the agreement was with the county for installing for them installing right those devices it would depend on what the agreement is but generally if if you have no responsibility for maintaining them and you didn't install them and you didn't decide where they go yeah it would be the County's responsib it be okay so then that is a big difference that doesn't prevent somebody from right they can still sue us but in terms of us being liable um okay I'm then I save my biggest question for the end so we're just finding out about this now and for several years while art and I were on the commission we were told that traffic study first we can't touch anything anything without a traffic study you can't and I asked every way I could ask and was told no we were told that by three different managers why is this such a hidden thing and why why did it why does it just come out of nowhere and land on our laps like this and then my second part to the question is and what else is out there we don't know about so answer to the first part of that question I had the same thought I said do hear this you know the discussions that I had with the County Commissioners legislative Aid was the first thing that came to our mind was in local agreement you can control these measures now to to Brad's point you know some the majority of these things reference a traffic study it it may be and I I'm curious to see what the hear what the count is going to say about that again in phone calls they've said you don't need this level of detail you know you have this and planning is going to be a second part of this um planning to to implement these things are we going to need a traffic study when we control the traffic measures for Speed bumps in these areas I use speed bumps just as a general example not as a this is the first thing to deploy um I don't know I'm waiting to find out if that's if that's what the count is going to say theyve represented to us over the phone and at that office that we don't need it I thought the same question was why how did we not several managers have told me that they've gone to the county had meetings and left and came back and reported we need to do a new traffic study that's so Why did no one ever say there's another way to get this done it makes me wonder what is are they just completely inept or is are we not completely understanding this I mean it it makes me worry and it pisses me off a little bit quite frankly yeah you know I thought about it too when leaving the office there that that you know we've been under the the understanding that we can't do anything without this traffic study U because we have to go to the county to do right to hear this you know straight from the county commissioner's office and from the Traffic Engineers office that that's not the case um I'm happy but also this you know You' think that this would happy assuming we check off this little list of things that we need all goes according to plan and assuming that the the county comes back to us and says yeah that's absolutely right you're good to go you can control these things and it's up to you guys on how you want to do that did you have something to yeah I kind of want to help us answer that question so there's been a big push in the last year or so uh from multiple multiple uh municipalities regarding the having the ability to manage their traffic calming and their streets uh Juan Juan attended a meeting recently at the county where basically the transportation Agency for the county uh got directed to start working with municipalities because the amount of complaints coming from local government governments has been overwhelming as you all know I and please correct me because I right now I think it was 108 our former County Commissioner um s Sally hyon remember we had two stop signs Y and I and we needed it was critical four we couldn't I couldn't make it we couldn't make it happen we just couldn't phone call to back then Sally Sally made her phone calls got it authorized got the that tells me that it was all in motion and there there is some they they will they laid out the the pathway for us to take more control of our intersection so Sally had that put in I would tell you within a week without without County Road that's a County Road and she's a county person this is different this is these are local roads correct and and that's I'm gonna turn it over to Juan that's a meeting he attend good evening mayor vice mayor Commissioners in my previous uh City we put in 22 traffic commers not one of them went in without a traffic study the county does require traffic studies in order to put any type of mitigating device whoever's telling you no today won't put it in writing the second part of that interlocal agreement once you sign it every piece of uh sign that's out there becomes the villages responsibility ility every sign every sign that's out there every County thing that's in the village now automatically becomes ours yours and yours to fund to M to properly place them because they're not properly at this time so the county has been providing services to the Village when a car in an accident knocks down a stop sign they come and they put in the stop sign back in at the right requirement code okay everything out there that's out there now is out of code yeah so once you sign the inter local you're probably gonna have to Hidden Gem to your site right and they you cannot once you decide to leave the interlocal the cost is still paid to the county because you decided to take it as yours yeah Juan what is your suggestion on this uh topic how do you see this on the topic of traffic we need to First uh get the traffic study done that will identify for you to decide all of a sudden we're going to put a speed pump on south on Northeast 9th Avenue whatever reason there's no there's no counts there's nothing to tell you whether it's going to help you or not help you and that's what you need to know you need to know how many cars are going through each one of these streets at what time of the day and what are the Peaks and what the Norms it Al tells you how many accidents are happening at that intersection and why okay they tell you how many cars are crossing through that are not on a normal day all that it comes out of the traffic uh study so the traffic study that you had in 2008 unfortunately it's outdated yeah so in order to go forward with any mitigation efforts you need to have a present traffic study one from today's data so you're saying that before we actually start installing uh any traffic mitigation we should proceed with the traffic you will need it once you decide oh I'm going to put a traffic uh speed hump on Northeast 9th Avenue the county is going to say please submit me the drawings please submit me the traffic information and then we'll approve your permit that's not what we're hearing yeah that's the point being are you talking about with the interal agreement ju are you talking about using the interlocal agreement or as we thought it was all even with the interlocal agreement you still have to submit it through them for a review and they're going to want all of that as back up as information and I think we'll find out and that's the point of it um if I can if I can so first thank you it's so nice to meet you by the way I'm very happy you're here um and so on this thank you very much as well I know there's been a lot of work among everybody um moving this pieces so it's um there's two different things I think one is with the interlocal agreement that we're talking about inside the village and the other one that has to do with County Roads Etc so the next steps for this are clearly to come us in a shape on of a resolution or something that will not a resolution sorry an a draft of what the agreement would be um and present it I think at that point we we need to find out what the answer is whether is we need uh sort of our data collection done prior to doing this or not for what you're saying I mean it sounds incredible the fact that we have the flexibility of move for moving forward with um our own data uh for that we don't have a process in place which was um one of the things we discussed I think couple meetings ago and we need to Define what the next steps are going to be but at this stage the first step is presented get the feedback whether it's a yes or a no no you need a b and c you just brought a and b so so we're going to be so there's going to be several uh phases as I see it so whether we need the traffic set it's already in place we have something already going um I share with Chris a little bit my concern about the safer streets Grant it's that we don't know anything about it it's a little bit we matching but we there's not a lot of information as time frame or what it expands to or what includes you know so a lot of it is is a county it's a in internal so there's going to be so many questions now that we have this piece and the following one is if if there isn't a traffic study you know because traffic stud is going to come with certain corners and what about the rest I think we spoke about there specific residents that field their Corners they're really you know critical maybe they're not being studied by the traffic study so there's so many moving pieces at the same time that I am just very excited and I want to say thank you for everybody I mean this is a collective effort but it's it's a it's a huge step forward you know you know one of the things that kind of you know sounded funny to me from the beginning by by the county kind of saying do whatever you want it's it's on you is that you know what have we decided I want to speed hun every six Ines yeah you know what I'm saying so obviously there has to be some kind of a process for them to look at and say Hey you know yes so that was brought up I can because I'm just looking at the the one of the go by agreements was Miami Gardens and actually it brings up something that I I did want to ask some guidance on the commission on um if we're moving forward with this it says any such uh traffic cing devices may be installed on local Municipal streets only after sealed and signed design plans have been reviewed and received written approval by the city through its city manager or his or her designate provided that such design plans utilize the standard County design attached here in an exhibit and they provided us and I think the mayor um had attached him as exhibits to his um discussion item um the design plan for these different traffic coming devices so if we follow those and then it goes on to say no additional review or approval by the county shall be required before installation right I I I think the point here being is that it's much quicker to get the government to approve something than it is to get it to do something agreed we can do stuff here quicker locally but they still would have to approve it obviously to make sure we don't have speed tables every six in so um but that I think that goes to your traffic that would also go to your St your study because you're your also and and correct me if I'm wrong is um you know you when you're putting in these types of speed tables or speed humps you have to take into consideration larger vehicles that are been that are going to be driving down your roads and the effects so if you have them too close they're going to cause a danger to to larger vehicles that take up more of the road um there there there are things and there are standards so there is listed in the agreement various different standards that have to be followed by the municipality such as the Florida Department of Transportation standard spec specifications for Road and Bridge construction the manual and uniform traffic devices standard highway signs from the Department of Transportation Miami dat's Public Works manual there there are a whole plethora of guidelines which I'm not 100% familiar with but and I would assume these set out the guidelines when you're spacing these these devices how they're to be constructed the materials how they're set in the roads ways and things of that nature but one of the things I did want to ask for guidance in in my draft of the agreement as I said in the Miami Gardens and and some of the other agreements it references the the city manager um as the individual that would approve the plans is that something that you all are comfortable with or do you want that to come before the Commission in in our agreement so to very quickly to that point and Juan thank you for for your Insight input one more thing to add to the traffic study the traffic study also serves for future grants to be able to secure money from the state of Florida for fot for their roads and for County Roads so a good document to always have on hand of course thank you for the input your perspective um but to to that last point that you made there Brad with there are regulations yes you know you know you if it sounded like we could just go out and drop a speed bump wherever we wanted that wasn't the point the point was that you know this is kind of the the first document the first step that we take to be able to maintain a level of control and autonomy over those those measures and yes when we plan for them when we put those things in place there's going to be ways that we have to do it but it it allows us to take control a little bit of that so going back to your point there Brad um this is something that you taking the draft agreement to the county would be able to clear up for us and say how exactly do we do this because this will come back to us in a draft form that's near final or he can you know brag can let us know and hopefully with a resolution when we get there but he'll clear those items up you know we'll have this with moving forward with the understanding that we can do these things um I think it would be fine to leave it in there as the manager can approve as long as it's within the guidelines I mean but I'm I'm certainly open to to what everyone thinks on I I have a question so in this uh draft uh Brad you have all these different elements right that we can use as deterence all the ones that you described um how are those tied to the requirements for the county for you know all the specifications you're referring to at the end of the day we have to follow through engineering and so are this examples and then the second part of the question is we are very particular very small village our roads not necessarily meet and that was one of the things I was told again I'm going to say I was told because a lot of things kind of were said and now we're you know looking into so I was told that some of our streets are not wide enough right to have the sort of requireed Ms does not meet requirements for a speed bump or a speed uh hump or whatever it might be so how do we I I wouldn't want to present something then that we cannot Implement because it wouldn't pass in our village so and I would refer to the public works director um because I I quite frankly I'm not familiar necessarily with these standards yeah but I would assume that these standards lay out what the parameters are for installing areas different um devices and certain Road widths distances apart things of that nature but I I would defer to the the Public Works director if he knows I'm not familiar with I think the the main issue for us here in this Village is not is not the it's it's the main arteries that that run through our village it's not so much from what I've seen you know um is the the we do have to your point you know some Thin roads because I've been there where you know you barely fit two cars but those those in my opinion don't seem to be the issue the speeding part it's just it's kind of the the main arteries that go through the through our village the reason I bring it art is because imagine if we say I don't know speed bumps we want to have speed bumps and we find out that actually 5 years and down the road we do have an issue you know um and or not even we go and try to put it on one of our roads and the standards don't meet necessarily our typo um typography how do you call it so our our land in a way so it's not matching what we presented to be approved to what we can actually execute because these are standards we're picking up so standards on Street wave and all of that all of a sudden don't match and then we go through a process of approval they say now fine and then when the county comes to prove the speed bomb they're like but this is not even to code what do you mean to code this is our street WID you know so how do we go about those particular so that we're not stuck in a process of counties sees a street as I don't know it fit you know long versus or with versus six that we have um and I don't know so it's not so much where we would place it more because there's going to be so many elements how do we know they for the village because that's what we're saying we're saying we have ownership and we know our village is very particular it needs fixing and we're going to take care of that but then we perade standards that we are not able to address see what I'm I I think that makes sense I think it's it's a question for if we're going find the answer to that well I think it's part of what we're getting some more clarity from the county on is is is do we need a traffic study what standards do we have to adhere to um because it's not going to come back to us in agreement where we just say Okay speed bumps but we don't have any understanding of what or how to do it director director Penna can I put you on the on the hot seat for a second yes sir um the agreements basically state that we have to meet um fot and Miami day County standards for um roundabouts I'm looking through here um traffic flow modifications the Florida greenbook things like that is just generally speaking would those deal more with things like if you put a speed bump in it has to be 14 inches long with a 3-inch rise or do those deal more with in order to put a speed bump your road has to be at least 10 feet wide it depends on the the interlocal would only approve you to to allow you to put in any anything on a standard Road our roads here the majority of them are not standard so anytime you the traffic study identifies an area that needs calming you need to see what the rest of the uh available calming devices are in order to address that width of a road okay the ones that they allow you which is what we we had CU we had regular Crossroads they they were all standard we could use the traffic uh Circle anywhere that the traffic study indicated we didn't have no small streets or like 115 which is very narrow we didn't have that we had standard size 22 foot roads going east and west north and south we have a lot to learn here still that's all good Insight a lot to learn here and I'm not sure where you're going to lead with this Jonathan but I will tell you this we have residents that think we're coming to this meeting tonight to vote on something that's going to allow us to do whatever we want to and that's clearly not the case here so we need to be really careful how we message things and how we get things out an email went out to Residents about this meeting tonight that says we will be able to install Comming devices wherever we need in other words thanks to his his efforts Jonathan's efforts we will be able to install calming devices wherever we need we're learning that's not exactly the case we got to be really careful about this we basically made an email went out to the village and on social media saying it's it's a free-for-all we can do whatever we want to and people are expecting that now to come out of this meeting and that's simply not true so we need to we have a lot to learn here I hope this all happens and we can take steps in the short term to do things while we get a traffic study and address the longer term bigger projects but it's not as simple as pull the trigger on this thing tonight and um and and start putting in speed homes so I think the the the takeaway from here is again that we've we haveen an understand we there is a level of understanding with what the agreement hopefully will do for us with the caveat that we're going to have Brad come back to us and Brad is going to tell us is this what the County attorneys are telling you the county represented to us that that was the case and the understanding was we're going to go back to the County attorneys and say they're going to say yes that's true Did anyone ask you like do you guys have standard this is the first time hearing this and this makes sense to me right like there's logic to that did anyone say do are your village roads standard Municipal roads or whatever the language is that somebody would use in that conversation I can't imagine that the the county commissioner's office would ask that question but the Traffic Engineers I would imagine would ask that question we had a very long call with them where they and represented to us that this was the the method and this was what it would allow us to do and this is what we have to do to get there so by the way the current speed bumps that we have in this Village are not were not installed legally they weren't we didn't we didn't ask anybody permission to do that we just did it on a cart and um they probably we probably need to revisit that well the best village speed bumps we have are the tree routes along the rec center so yeah Veronica's list tonight we're not can to so what are the things that we need to to find out I have down CIT make sure CIT is not impacted make sure traffic study is not required uh make sure that specific locations are not required to get the interlocal agreement and that our roads meet their standards uh also um that I what I would put on top of that as part of the traffic study element is that that we have these requirements that are list in these in these sample local agreements that say your and and one of the warehous Clauses that Brad just read to us was your measures have to comply with these things and your manager has to approve it so I would want some clarity on that is is that the standard by which we have to approve and go through design I did not I repeat that Jonathan because I didn't quite understand it when it was being said down there about the manager approving it my takeaway was that and certainly open to Brad's interpretation but um my takeaway was that the city manager will approve the design design and ensure that the design of the the calming measures are within the guidelines that are defined herein and they list several of them and that suggests I mean again this just suggests to me that if you have someone with oversight and someone planning out and planning that it's within those those parameters and that no one else has to approve it right and then there was no one else so I just want some more clarity on that and and again that's that sounds more like what the county was telling us on the calls um and if now they come back and the attorney say that's not the case I just want know that so again the point being from here is to have Brad take that draft agreement go to them get some clarity on those issues and then it comes back to it yeah so but there's there's one thing you're asking for clarity that is way above my field of expertise so whether or not your roads meet any of the standards that are set out in these in these agreements um for placing of Comming devices I mean I but I think the question is is what what's the procedure not not not give us all of the standards right here tell us what that procedure is and how we meet it so the question so when you were having the conversation with the engineers the Traffic Engineers they would know we have right what I would have thought and that's that would be the first steps to say okay we currently are not 90% of the village is not within the standards roads the stand but the standards when you look at these agreements that assigned by other other um jurisdictions the decision-making process is very clear um so it the decision-making processes remains within the city it does not require any additional review of the or approval by the county I'm I'm reading straight from the agree and that's I think I'll be required before installation that's provided that the devices that you're installing meet these these documents that that set guidelines for the types of devices that you're installing within those documents might there be language that this speed bump can only be put on a street that's 20 feet wide there may there may very well be um but I'm just saying that's kind of Beyond who can dig into that yeah that's kind of beyond my field of expertise so we do have on the 15th Friday the next Friday Friday the 15th um we have the county commissioner's office as well as I believe it's an engineer coming um to actually get eyes on our existing roads so that's a great question that we can ask at that point so able to specific C the efforts of talking to them there talking to the attorneys give us some clarity on the procedure because if what they come back and they say no we tried we did what we had to do to get the clarity so I want that Clarity um and I I remain optimistic that we will get good news I hope so yeah to that point very quickly I just want to say I work with government agencies in my role in healthcare CMS medicare I want to believe both of you but there's some cognitive dissonance there and it wouldn't be the first time that I've called Pera or proace and gotten one answer and then called the next day and gotten someone else and gotten a different so sure and the scariest thing I heard was when one said they won't put it in writing the fact that you don't need a traffic study they they might say it to you but they won't put it in writing we need to make sure it's all buttoned up yeah certainly I agree one more thing to add any device that goes into the streets has to be approved by by a traffic engineer sign and sealed you cannot put anything out there without a sign and sealed engineer drawing on it is that you in this case no that's always that's always any no I mean is that you are you the traffic engineer in our village oh no sir are you saying someone at the county one of our no one of our Traffic Engineers one of our Engineers that's anticipated that that's Incorporated in this agreement okay okay so then I'd like to just wrap it up with that that we'll get some clarity on those points we'll have a draft it'll be discussed it'll come back to us we'll know exactly we'll know the answers to these questions and we'll hopefully have a more clear path forward I hope so I just this was a discussion here in the next couple of weeks yeah look just there's a discussion I to bringing up to say this is what the plan is to go forward it the next agenda is this agenda basically hey we have three minutes here and we really need to discuss the mayor coming here in a month so can I make a motion to push the Miami D County mayor is coming here in a month and we need to discuss we're going to discuss with her can I make a motion to extend the meeting to 10:15 second all in favor I gotta go guys I'm sorry not tonight any other time do you have anything real quickly you want to add to the list of things to talk to the mayor about I'm sure I do but I don't know stay with you guys and discuss it I mean top of my head I wasn't ready to discuss it tonight but um I'll Trust you guys I'll you know everything that's going on as much as I do okay um CH if I can I know you're closing on the subject before I leave um it was very uh harsh to go back and forth on what we can and cannot do on this item because we're constantly talking to Residents about uh you know safety and then you tell them no we've been told and so just to add everything think at the end of the day this is a response to all the feedback we get and it's so important to keep it going um I'm just so excited that we're finally opening this conversation and it's a possibility so thank you everyone uh for tonight I'm not leing okay all right all right okay so okay so um vice mayor if you want to go ahead and um let's go through your item I took the words right out of my mouth um flooding maybe I you know add that that's part of septic to I think this is part of like the larger thing of resiliency yeah resiliency efforts when is she coming again okay she's coming on April 2 look intelligent least clean it up she's coming an hour before our meeting there will be a social probably hopefully outside with residents and then she'll come in we'll start our meeting she can only stay for the first half hour of our meeting so we'll need to kind of get through the pruny stuff and get her up and I'm sure she'll want to say some words to us and then there will be some back and forth exchange um probably best if one of us you know sort of says here's what we want to discuss with you um and that's what I asked that we would agree on tonight yeah so um we could order and I'm just looking to hear what everybody wants to talk to her about I said mine on the same boat I mean the big giant ticket items right right the things that that are way beyond our means septic sewer drains roads I thought you might want to add canal art I was figuring you would want to talk about some Canal issues oh yeah we can talk about thato I mean if you want to put that on the list I know that's your one of your pet projects so what the hell was that thing crawling around on the bottom by the way scared me so um so she's gonna come here to listen to Just Us she's gonna talk to us I want to hear she's G to have an exchange with us yeah oh okay and is that going to be during the regular commission meeting she's going to be here at the beginning of the meeting and I figured at that point we will defer to her and put her up at the top of the agenda and she'll want to say some things is she aware kind of of what the exchange is going to be her her assistant Melanie has coordinated all of this okay great all right so yeah so I mean listen like I said you know the big ticket items are obviously the ones that uh you know the sore and um you know and we can also probably talk a little bit about this kind of stuff that we were we're U yeah certainly I kind of see it broken down into two major categories resiliency which would include the septic to sewer include some of the flooding mitigation efforts because I've I've had the discussions with the county in the past about what kind of efforts can we put in BIO swales because we don't have the sewers so what else bio is gooda right so what else can we do and who do we go to how do we work with you on it so those those kind of fall under the resiliency kind of category and then traffic in streets because Paving is is I think another big one so kind of Street safety Traffic Safety I think those things kind of fall within that the surfaces of the roads themselves yeah um I was can we add I I hope I was hoping you would add Canal can we add Canal to it okay I think we should discuss the fact that one of our borders is part of the South Florida Water Management da da da I'm not sure whether jurisdiction Falls there but that we're very concerned about the quality of that and the viability of that canal and the animals and that da da da so I would love that if you would add that to it as well um and um God something just went straight through my brain and out the other side oh and I would like to ask her for something well I I I think we should also make sure that we say what do you need from biscane Park yeah of course you run a whole County here what do you need from municipalities what can we do for you I mean who doesn't love to hear that right so ask her that and um also um ask her for one specific ask we would like to be next up for septic the sewer we would like to you you're doing it another you pick they're doing it an outport to right they've started it there um at least started the question I don't know if they've actually started the implementation of it but something that also actually this kind of ties into that but it wasn't part of the subject earlier talking with commissioner Steinberg was saying looking at this as like a tri Village approach rather than a single Village approach exactly which she thought was a good idea so you know staying close with them and saying if you guys are all going for it and Senator pizo we'd actually talked about it before too saying there are three villages that on their own maybe Shores could do it but you can't really all afford it by yourself so if you do it as a larger group then you might open and we represent look we're 100% septic right the shores in elport I don't think are 100% elportal might be already right but they're but I don't think the whole thing is laid out right yeah yeah but the point is is that to Jonathan's point the tri Village the tri Villages represent that many more septic tanks they could get exactly we're bigger out of operation we're bigger together and and we might be more attractive although smaller might be better or something like that too like we could only afford this right now but I just think we should be very clear with her like we would really like to be on the Forefront of that yeah I I I think so um I think that's okay um I like that idea um I think those items that we've already kind of identified in resiliency and traffic in roads and in Canal um are great things we don't have them for that long these these I mean these are the big ticket items that we've been talking about for long there is one other thing and I don't I think it's in her jurisdiction but the railroad I get people complaining about the additional noise because of all the additional trains and now more trains are coming and apparently there was an opportunity many years ago that we could have had a conversation with someone about the sound barrier walls what do you know about that Pamela she's nodding her head you went through it um I would I don't know if that's within her jurisdiction or not but it's not too late to put up the wall because it's it's it's changing a lot very quickly and it's not just people along the tracks people within the interior of the village say oh my God it's just the sound of the trains now she's not I mean she's not going to give us I don't anticipate she's going to give us any clear this is what you do it's going to be like this is the department and I'll get them in touch with you and we'll get touch with your staff but at least it gets the right people in front of us and if it's her saying help these people talk or at least talk to these people but I think the tracks would be another good something else to add to the list so that's I'm sure will be directed to the the correct department with fine yeah and that's fine yeah certainly um I think that would kind of follow me within this category so let me think so I have traffic kind of road road safety um Road impair Road Improvement um rain resiliency the flooding the subject to sewer the canal um and I think that's those are the big ones and that's we're not going to have a whole lot more time with her than that because she'll just kind of talk to us about who we talk to and what department we get in touch with offer her a log cabin if she she told me she has been to biscane park because one of her kids was house shopping and they came here to look at some homes yeah she must I get I don't know her personally but I think she has grown kids it sounds like or at least young adults I don't know yeah yeah so those are the good items um and we have the Arts board you're working with the Arts board on on planning yeah they're going to plan out it's just going to be it's going to be very casual I think there's going to be some music some live music just to kind of give it a little snazzy you know attit and um some food and Beverages and as many residents as I can get to come perfect me mix and mingle with her and then she'll come in and do her business and get out of here guys I'm gotta go all right I like it um all right so well having done that we'll place these items on the next meeting agenda I'll identify them for you after and with that do I have a motion to adjourn okay do we have a second we're just gonna stick around all right all in favor