right good afternoon I'm calling this public hearing to order uh at uh 4:33 p.m. in accordance with the building emission reduction disclosure ordinance regulations adopted pursuant to the building emission reduction disclosure ordinance Boston city code ordinance section 7- 2.2 the Berto review board will hold a virtual public hearing at 4:30 on June 10th to review the following topics in regard to the reduction of greenhouse gases from building energy production and consumption so as to promote the Public Health and Welfare of Boston residents in accordance with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law we are conducting this public meeting online to ensure public access to the deliberations of the Berto review board the public May access this call through telephone and video conferencing members of the public will have an opportunity to ask questions and provide public comment to do so please raise your hand or type in the chat in the application via the zoom meeting platform if you are calling in and cannot use the platform you can raise your hand by pressing star9 send your questions to staff via email at Berto review board at boston.gov for the record I am Steven Ellis acting chair of the board I will now conduct a roll call of board members board members please say your name in the order that they appear on the screen Rashida Boyd Steven Ellis that Jacob Jack Nelson staff will now introduce themselves Aiden Callen Berto program manager s Vasquez Berto riew board manager Zeki chin Berto review board assistant here is the agenda for today's meeting we'll start with the approval of meeting minutes the environment Department staff will present updates on Berto reporting the Equitable emissions investment fund and any administrative updates after that RDH will be kicking off a training for the review board finally will adjourn first on the agenda is to approve the previous me meeting minutes from May 13th are there any questions or comments regarding the meeting minutes hearing none is there a motion to approve the minuts motion to approve is there a second second second on the motion to approve meeting minutes board members in favor say I or show your hands I I I I okay I believe that would all the eyes so the motion passes we have now approved the meeting minutes for the second agenda item we will hear from the environment Department about updates on the Berto reporting all right um yeah thank you Stephen um so I think last I checked in on these these items was about a month ago um it was you know the week before the big uh you know Berto reporting deadline of May 15 um and I provided an update just really on extension request so I wanted to to to give an update there as well as where the where the status is on the Berto reporting on terms of compliance by building um and then on the next slide get a little bit more into um what our Outreach efforts are to to up those compliance numbers over the next few months and continue engage building owners that have not yet been uh engaged in this process uh so uh just an update on reporting extensions so uh you know there are uh just under 6,000 buildings uh covered under Berto uh so about 10% of of that um had requested uh extensions which were approved um and I've I've noted the breakdown here so these are three-month extensions they have until August 15th as opposed to May 15 to to finish reporting um so we'll be working with them uh to make sure over the next few months that they're getting across the finish line here uh but just a breakdown of the reasons for why building owners were not able to get uh get their data in by May 15 um in some cases they were waiting on us uh to to complete reporting we're working with a lot of different building owners on a lot of different scenarios and um you know especially around May 15th our our our number of inquiries increased quite quite significantly so um you know in those cases uh we we do enable building owners to uh to note that they were just simply waiting on us to to complete that reporting um while vast majority of of Berto buildings had to verify their data back in 2022 based on 2021 data uh those that are new to uh to Berto this year or those that are uh not new to Berta this year but they're reporting for the very first time this year uh are still having to engage that third party verifier for the first time uh and so uh you know because they're you know at the liberty of the verifier timeline uh oftentimes that uh it gets over to them in a time frame where they're not able to get that all set by the 15th so just noting that uh so we have 77 in that bucket uh majority of these extension requests noted that utilities uh were not a provide data in time um you know in addition to the you know just back and forth with utilities that some you know more complicated circumstances might require uh just in terms of accessing whole building data um perhaps you know a building owner is going out to get release forms from a commercial tenant and uh it's just taking more time um you know there there is another circumstance of of you know the utilities this this year actually uh you know changing their account numbers um and you know some of their internal systems which are just causing a bit more of a backlog on on the Utility side uh so just want to to note that you know some building owners at this time are just um you know dealing with those internal process changes I think some of us may have received a letter in the mail that you know eversource and National Grid have both changed their account numbers recently so just a lot of internal um uh administrative uh uh items that that are uh you know causing these these utility requests to perhaps take a a bit more time in some cases um and then you know other other reasons we that we've allowed for um uh you know 121 in in that bucket um but uh you know in some in some cases uh you know we have denied those requests uh you know because they simply didn't provide a uh answer that we were noting was an extenda circumstance um so uh just noting that the number stood at 35 I mentioned this last month but I'll I'll mention it again you know we're not finding those folks right away you know we're we're saying look you know just get your data in as soon as possible we'll continue to work with you you know your circumstance doesn't meet the extenuating circumstances that we've outlined um and you know while we do reserve the right to issue fines um we a long ways away from that you know given the number of notices that we would have to send out uh ahead of that so um just making sure that when we do deny folks um for not providing a comprehensive reason uh that we're we're noting that as well um and then any uh so just an update on where reporting numbers stand uh so uh we have just under 50% of uh buildings are uh submitted whether that be their fully in compliance or they've submitted to us but they tripped some sort of data quality flags that warrant some further back and forth to make sure that you know the data that they've reported uh they're able to use and plan for with confidence and so so that that pending revisions uh you know bucket that we we'll put a lot of buildings in before we fully put them into compliance uh is is a necessary back and forth just to make sure that uh nothing's getting through the cracks and and we're able to plan with confidence with this data um but we have just under 3,000 buildings that that have not yet submitted and so um you know I will note that uh you know just about 400 of those buildings are Boston Housing Authority at this time uh Boston Housing Authority has uh you know been having some trouble getting their their data uh in in a timely manner um and we're working with them to make sure that they're getting that in as soon as possible we fully expect them to be cross the finish line within the next few weeks but I did want to note that that is a sizable chunk of that um are are uh so I'll I'll I'll leave that there um uh and just expand upon what our what our game plan is over the next few months on the next slide um so you know we are uh sending follow-up emails to Berto account holders uh every Berto account holder logs onto the Berto reporting form claims their building to say you know I am the point of contact that's reporting on behalf of this building um and you know that those are our primary points of contact when it comes to uh uh just reaching out for non-compliance and making sure that we're we're getting in touch with the right folks um so I do want to note that 71% of buildings have been claimed at this time uh just throwing those numbers up there so that 71% of buildings that have been claimed that's very different number than the around 50% that we're sitting at right now in terms of what's been reported so there's a good sizable number of buildings that we have contact information for we're either currently working with them right now or we're going to be following up with them very consistently over the next few months um to make sure that they're uh reporting their data um uh in addition to consistent follow-up emails we'll be sending physical letters later this month to Berto building owners that uh have not yet reported or requested a reporting extension um and uh I did want to note just an additional Outreach effort that we're we're starting up here um door to-door Outreach so this is uh you know something that you know we have quite a large covered buildings list and you know it's uh We've you know felt that you know we've wanted to you know find other avenues of of you know reaching out to the property managers owners um you know beyond just you know going door Todo to to to try to get uh proper address information uh proper contact information um you know something that other cities employ uh that that are you know going through this this ordinance process as well um so we're we're in the planning stages of that and uh intend to start uh trying that out uh later this month um but we're hopeful that you know that will allow for us to you know simply get better contact information when it comes to okay you know we see that the property management company for this this building is this property management company and so we know we can reach out to them um they may be working with Berto in some other capacity as many property management companies are but they might not be aware that this particular building is covered under Berto for example um and so yeah we're going to we're going to try this effort and see um see what this brings up so looking forward to to getting some outdoor time this summer um but I think that's it uh from me so happy to answer any questions on that okay thank you Aiden I will now ask each board member if they have any questions or comment so over to you board member boy um about the housing the 400 that you're waiting for you said 400 waiting is there anything would so is it they're just dragging their feet or is anything that can be done to push them quicker or it's just a waiting process yeah at this time so they have about 600 buildings that they're reporting for um they receive their data from National Grid and an aggregate billing format uh that has caused them to have to request data from National in a way that is different from almost everybody else so so that that that had taken some time initially and and their their sort of starting date was I think push back quite a lot as a result of that um and you know we've been meeting with them bi-weekly to you know make sure that they are continuing to move things along and that we're we're all holding each other accountable to you know deadlines that we're setting for ourselves and pushing the process along so at this point it's really just a matter of quantity that they're having to to deal with and so they they're they're fully engaged fully fully working with this uh the data at this time it's my understanding that it's all in portfolio manager and ready to to submit it's just a matter of wrapping up those those uh Berto reporting forms and getting getting those across the finish line so um yeah they they're we're fully engaged with them we we just uh we're just you know having to meet with them consistently to to make sure that we're we're all on the same page and and and uh leading by example here and uh you know so the the city owned buildings the um municipal buildings are all across the Finish Line at this point they've all been reported it's really just a a handful of those BHA ones that we're we're still waiting on thank you Aiden yep thank you board member Boyd so uh Aiden thank you for that presentation um you know with the utility account changing happening between both the electric and the the um natural gas or should I say ever Source a National Grid um I'm assuming that in order to make sure that everyone is still reporting appropriately the third party review process is going to be the point where they're making sure that all of these account numbers are appropriate um but it if they are changing right now that third party will review won't happen until most likely next year to verify that those account numbers line up is that correct um yeah so the the existing requests that the building owners had put through initially are still active um so so those are really tied to the meter number which did not change um but uh so so but this this account number change had caused both eversource naal grid to you know temporarily shut down their systems to uh just have to plan administratively to to you know uh you know handle these responses in a in a slightly different way they just wanted to make sure they were fully prepared to to take on that uh you know account number switch um and uh so you know we've been working with both of those utilities to make sure that it's a smooth transition but it has caused a number of building owners to have to have to sit tight while um while that that fix is gone through got it all and thank you for that and just out of curiosity that roughly 1,600 buildings that have uh not been claimed is this existing in any particular area of the city or um is it still the sort of subset of small buildings that we discussed last year yeah so I I uh I wish I had a bit more granular data in front of me here but um I I can say that that is uh they lean more towards the 2030 buildings this the the smaller buildings that are newer to Berto as of the last couple of years um you know being smaller buildings uh you know may less likely to maybe have property management company or or less likely to uh have the um the you know the contacts the sort of structure to to um more readily more easily know about Berto you know in the first place and so I think we're we're sending letters to to all all these all these building owners but um yeah we know that uh we're we're going to have to work a bit harder and and and really try to get those um those smaller buildings on on board um because we are we are seeing a disproportionate number of those unclaimed uh for for the 2030 um so of course they have a bit more Runway but um we need to engage them as as quickly as possible so so that is that is a kind of a a clear Trend that that I see um you know just in terms of the size of the building you know correlates with the square footage and it correlates with the emissions that are actually engaged within Berto um what you would hope to see is that um if if there is engagement and greater engagement in any one area it's the larger buildings the the ones that are uh simply on average more responsible for higher number of emissions um but beyond that uh no clear indication of building use type from what i' I can see um it's you know the clearest trend is is really just building size so okay that's that's threshold and that that threshold is aligned with when building owners had to start reporting to Berto in the first place so so building owners that are subject to 2025 uh likely had to start reporting back in 2017 so you know we've been engaging them for s years at this point got it well best of luck on the uh door-to-door Outreach that's some Grassroots level um work to be done right there and I hope you you work with the other cvos in that process I and as we get closer to the August 15th uh deadline I you know or the the extension request I should say you know I do look forward to see a Breakout by maybe even types I think the story about the size has been sort of um it's been made very clear at this point after several years and so I'm I'm genuinely interested in the type of buildings that are realistically not uh not even participating or maybe haven't been claimed I should say uh thank you for that all right so now I'm going to pass it over to board member Jacobs sorry I had to go for my mute button uh no questions at the moment I'm just following along thank you thank you board member Jacobs over to you board member Nelson I have no questions good luck with the um with the hitting the streets thank you looking forward to it okay so we are now Switching gears to discuss the updates on the Equitable emissions investment fund I will hand it off to Dian yes I can give an update on the Equitable emissions investment fund so the fund has officially launched uh or opened on Friday May 31st uh thanks to the board for voting and approving uh opening the fund so just as a reminder the board voted to award up to $750,000 um with a deadline to apply by Friday July 12th so we have a new website it is boston.gov forbo dasf fund uh where we have all this information available we have two information sessions planned so one is tomorrow at 12 o'clock and the next one is on June 20th uh from 10: to 11: they're both virtual um we have registration links for anybody who's interested uh the announcement and the website has been shared with the environment Department's social media with different Community Partners and our community Advisory Group members uh via this newsletter um so the Berto newsletter and the review board newsletter and to individuals who provided their emails in our public feedback form uh survey so if they provided their email and you know stated they wanted more information we also reached out to them to let them know the fund has officially been opened um and just as a reminder of the timeline the fund open on May 31st tomorrow we are here tomorrow we have an information session uh June 20th we have a second information session and then the the application deadline is July 12th um of course the board when we passed it asked for discretion to extend the deadline if the board felt that there were not enough applications submitted uh but this is the T timeline we're working excuse me this is the timeline we're working with right now um so no major updates we have 18 registered we have 18 folks registered for the information session tomorrow so it does seem that there is some interest um but other than that the fund is uh out and available and maybe uh Ziggy if you don't mind maybe you can share the link to the to the Berto fund website folks want to see it thank you Diana I will now ask each board member if they have any questions or comments I'll be going in reverse order so board member Nelson just one uh comment one of my U clients who's a not for-profit hospital they they're aware of it and I think they're going to pursue some of the funds so um it it seems as though the information is getting out there no questions other wise thanks that is great to hear thank you board member Nelson over to you board member Jacobs no question or comment at the moment I share board member Nelson's uh uh sentiments that it does seem to have been out there I think it's interesting how the social media piece uh was the ones that I some of my colleagues some of my colleagues excuse me I don't know where my accent was coming on for a second but um some of my colleagues were letting me know that they they've noticed it and they will be attending um some of the information sessions so thank you for putting that out there uh no questions for me at this time and uh board member Boyd no comments that social media was was good good advertisement if you want to say that yeah but no comment I'm glad to hear it okay thank you board member Boyd we will now cover in the administrative updates so I'll be turning it over to you Ziggy hi so a couple updates on the makeup of the board we recently had two members step down Lee matsua and man M um mat Mali has been appointed to serve and on the BP bpda board by Governor hey uh we appreciate the time they both put in as members of the review board and we wish them luck in their future endeavors the Berto team is working with the mayor's office to fill these vacancies as soon as possible um the regulation state that in the face of these absences the mayor's office has SCT from existing pools of applicants um of the nominees sorry if the mayor does not select anyone from the existing pool we can open a new nomination process and there has unfortunately no further updates on hanan's nomination process but we're working on getting him on the board as soon as possible and as another update on the B uh admin update the burto team has updated uh the emissions factors and the new ones can be found on the Berto website and I'll put the link in the chat to the new emissions factors also a reminder our next meeting is scheduled for June 2 sorry June 24th thank you Ziggy um before we get to public comment I I want to make sure uh to check in with the board here to see if there's any questions or comments about what was just mentioned under the administrative update so I'll start with you board member Boyd no comment all right thank you board member Boyd uh I you know I I wish you all luck as you go through the process I know it's been taking some time to get Hassan uh nomination process completed um and so from what I'm hearing Ziggy it sounds like you still have a pool of applicants that you can work with um from the previous uh uh iteration of collecting nomination from those that were on the board from cbos so I'm glad to know that there are still some members that we can select from there and I really do hope that uh the mayor's office May move a little bit faster on this I understand we're in the middle of uh the the budget period and we're also facing the July 1st uh deadline coming up where we will have a lot of work to do then so uh best of luck in in the Outreach and getting this process completed uh board member Jacobs just Pig what you was saying Stephen um hoping to see some of these uh seats get filled I do wish you know the members the best of luck on their future endeavors but it's clear and apparent that we are going to need some more input looking for it may have been breaking up towards the end there for me I'm not sure if it was the same for my colleagues on on the line here but um I I think I heard the majority of what you were saying on board member Jacobs about the sentiments uh uh on this board so if you need to make another comment um please feel free to come off mute and uh at any moment but uh for the time being I'm going to go over to board member Nelson I heard that there new emissions factors um was there any significant change or update on those values hi this is Hannah um sorry I had just taken a bite of peut Eminem So apologies for the crunching um sorry to interrupt um there were no major changes what we have for the emissions factors for the first time is we received the third party verified emissions factors from our district energy provider so that includes vicinity and matap um so those are um we didn't have those before we were just relying on the uh default factors provided by the EPA um for district Energy System or like District Steam and chilled water now we have plant specific emissions factors um that can be used for planning purposes um and then also we did our um first annual emissions calculations for grid emissions factors um so every year this the environment department will be calculating a grid emissions Factor Based on data from ISO New England because I said New England releases a final or a an official emissions factor for the whole electric grid but it's usually a couple years delayed so we're going through our own process of using the data they publish calculating that so we've released that as well um it was higher than the projected emissions Factor so if that were the case say in 2025 the first emissions compliance year we' be using the projected emissions Factor rather than the actual uh calculated emissions Factor but we're going through that process now to start um getting some practice and demonstrating kind of how those emissions factors may be different did did the um value of um greenhouse gases per mound of steam did that emissions Factor go up or down with the um with the steam Supply buyers um I double check but they're they're I believe they're lower than the epa's default emission okay okay so it's favorable for the uh users yes good okay great thank you thank you board member Nelson and thank you Hannah as well uh we will now be opening uh excuse me open the meeting to public comment to for the public to respond on any of the topics that they've heard today as a reminder uh to member of the public members of the public to provide public comment please raise your hand or type in the chat in the application via the zoom meeting platform if you are calling in and cannot use the platform you can raise your hand by pressing star9 your questions to and set or send your questions to staff via the Berto review board email at boston.gov so Berto reviewboard boston.gov again as a reminder we are limiting questions to 3 minutes to ensure everyone has a chance to speak we will also ask members of the public to introduce themselves and their neighborhood we will now wait to give members of the public the opportunity to provide questions or comments hearing none now RDH will conduct a basics of building science training so I will now Hound it over to RDH great thank you okay Bailey I was gonna say did you have what you need are you good to to screen share yes let me let me just make sure I can screen share here all right can everyone see that slide okay blue slide with some text on it looks great okay fantastic thank you give me just one moment to set up here folks my apologies would like to keep an eye on the chat here all right well thank you for having us today my name is Bailey Brown I'm with RDH building science and I'll be facilitating a session our session today for uh review board training um our first session today is um oh sorry let me get okay there we go um as a reminder our session today is for educational training purposes only so we might be talking about various compliance methods and and other um opportunities however um that is General discussion for education and so if you need assistance in applying any of our discussion today to individual projects or portfolios uh please reach out to the department or RDH or the review board so I'd like to welcome you all thank you for joining today um a bit about what to expect from today um as mentioned this is a recorded public session uh we do have a few um non-board members it appears joining the the session we've got the Department as well as some folks from RDH on the call today um the review board is our primary audience for today um so we'll primarily be focusing our um activities and um questions with the review board um if there are other questions that need to be asked um there is an email available the Berto review board at boston.gov um we will be using Zoom pretty simply here of simple hand raised chat features um we do ask that every have their mic muted unless they come off M to ask a question or contribute to any sort of discussion and then um I'd like to encourage that um have cameras on if available and If appropriate um just to enrich the learning opportunity for everyone here today um today is intended to be informal and collaborative we're going to ask for review board engagement um you all have a lot of wonderful experiences and um knowledge already that we can learn from and share with with everyone on the call today um so encourage everyone to join in if they can um and we'll be looking at a fair bit of information today and having a lot of discussion we will have some key opportunities to um have some group Q&A at the end of each kind of subsection of our information today um if you have a burning question and you would like it answered right away go ahead and put your hand up we're happy to uh to answer that question as we move along here um or if you are concerned about losing your question feel free to drop it in the chat and uh we can either collect it then or at the uh at the end of the subsection make sure you get an answer um the department will be supporting um Us in delivering the the recording of this as well as the slide deck so that you have that available after the session for reference and I cannot see a view in the zoom platform ah maybe I can okay um so before we before we move on let's just give the uh tools a quick test so if everyone could review board could just give me a quick hand raise um just to test out that hand raise feature I see one rash's on her way I see I see a physical hand that works for me Jack okay um and we might have more I've got don't have visibility of all okay it looks like everyone's finding that feature just fine um and let's give the chat a quick test as well anything quick hello anything you can drop in there just to get a bit more familiar with it um if anyone is having trouble finding those tools we will be using those throughout the training so if you're having trouble finding those tools feel free to drop it in the chat and one of us from RDH or the department can assist you in finding all right I'm not seeing anything in the chat okay okay there we go thank you folks all right we'll we'll keep going from there but again if you need any support please feel free to to reach out and uh we'll do our best to assist all right so a little bit about RDH why we're here today um RDH is supporting the city of Boston Department of environment and the review board with uh Technical Training capacity building on call technical uh services and developing some public education materials so our efforts today are squarely focused on that Technical Training and capacity building uh need for the board um AR is a North American Building science focused firm uh specializing in building enclosures facade engineering energy and climate asset management and research policy and training um we have a fairly deep bench supporting this project right now and kind of throughout the duration of 2024 um but today you have the pleasure of hanging out with Steve and I um I'm the Project Lead and um a building science specialist Steve is a principal and Senior uh energy and sustainability specialist who will be supporting a lot of our discussion today as well so thank you to Steve for joining group all right a bit about our training uh because we haven't had an opportunity to talk with the board directly about our training plan um all of you participated in a a questionnaire as well as interviews to provide us with learning um your learning preferences and learning needs as well as some areas of uh technical knowledge that you wanted to have some growth in and focus on um and so with that we took those materials and we developed um a training plan that includes three different phases that'll occur between now and the end of uh November of this year and so those three phases um the first phase will actually occur right now June to July this is our first session of our first phase which will include groundwork uh just general groundwork that'll that will serve as a foundation for the rest of our our sessions and phases um so that occurs during this 90minut public meeting our second session uh which will focus on audits um and Beyond the building Concepts will um occur on June 24th at the next hearing and then um the week of July 15th and the 22nd uh we'll be breaking into small groups and doing some small cohort training of three to four individuals per group to focus on additional questions and and information um and so currently we have not yet um officially defined phase two and phase three topics we have an idea of what those should be based off of the the feedback that we received from everyone during the initial needs assessment process um but we would like to hear the questions and the feedback that comes from phase one before we set those in stone and move forward with developing the train for you so our first session today is Phase um is within phase one and so phase one is primarily going to focus on um building science and policy fundamentals um I see a hand Stephen do you want to jump in I just wanted to clarify so since we potentially have three new board members coming on um will you be doing a new assessment in order to reassess what phase two and three will look like for the board correct yeah each each member that joins the board will also go through a similar process is what the the existing board members went through to collect their learning needs as well as any technical um technical kind of knowledge expansion areas that are also needed thank you yeah our second uh Focus for phase one training will be on energy audits um we'll also be looking at bero compliance methods and decision- making and then the fourth area we'll be looking it beyond the building Concepts and talking about things like District Energy Systems re and ppas um for our session today given this is our first session we'll be focused on primarily ground firm so we'll focus on Building Systems and and greenhouse gases and general verto compliance um Building Systems will focus on just the how the building functions of the system and the interaction of those subsystems together um we'll be defining different types of building related carbon emissions and explaining why different buildings have different uh emission targets we'll also uh be looking at building specific factors that influence how a building might comply with with all right um any questions before we jump into the uh Technical Training aspect of today all right we'll continue on okay so for our Building Systems groundwork today um we can think of the building as um a system this is a very simple illustration that you'll see in some of the the general public education materials for Berto um any pretty much any building that would need to comply under Berto has a similarity not that the building function as a system um so although this is kind of a simplification of a building right possibly a residential structure um uh maybe multif family um this Concepts apply to commercial as well as uh institutional projects and and Beyond um but the building as a system generally U looks at the concept that there's um external environment and load so we can think about solar loads um wind rain and snow external influences on a building um there's the enclosure the building enclosure most simply put is everything that keeps the outside out and the inside so it's the boundary that forms the building walls roof windows and other elements that help manage things like rain water and snow melt um air pressure differentials thermal loads so heating cooling heating loads possibly coming across the enclosure and things like water vapor which help reduce the risk of condensation and uh help support things like durability the uh third subsystem of the building of a system concept is just internal environmental loads so this could be related to occupant behaviors it could be things like lighting AV everything that might be happening within the interior of the building that isn't necessarily part of those other systems and then we have um HVAC systems so heating ventilation air conditioning um this would also include things like hot water distribution and then a fifth system is on-site renewable energy um so this and this very simple uh illustration would be something like um a solar array top of um there may be other subsystems that these primary systems could be broken into but generally the concept is that all of these systems um have some way of working together to form the building as full system um so we have a bit of an activity here for you today um very brief but up in the upper uh leftand corner of the screen you'll see that I've listed the systems so the external environment loads building enclosure internal environment loads hbac on site renewable energy so this is the same illustration that we saw before but we get a better Glimpse at the uh the annotations the lettered annotations on the screen this illustration just simply kind of cut in the middle and enlarged for your uh viewing ability um so in order to uh to to perform this activity um let's get it'll get us more familiar with some of the common components included within each system and so for for a here we have a water heater um go ahead and drop in the chat um what system you think that that might relate to hot water heater so we've got our systems listed up in the upper hand corner here for interal and feel free to come off um kind come off mic too if you'd like to contribute in that way so hot water heating um would actually be part of the HVAC system because it has to do with um hot water and distribution we would typically lump it under HVAC um so let's try another one B and C which would be the appliances so we've got laundry appliances and cooking appliances we think about b and c internal okay yep definitely internal so internal environmental loads occupants have some control over and um yep awesome okay d and e we have a heat pump here and we also have a wall cassette shown on the inside of the building so D and E HVAC yep you you've got it all right and then f for Theros thermostat here seeing more hbac all right and then G this is lighting so a bit difficult to tell as we've chopped this image in half but we've got lighting here on G internal awesome Yep you've got it so control by the ents but part of those internal gains and then H H is showing a temperature differential across this boundary here so hot to cold or cold to hot enclosure yep very much so so the enclosure controls those thermal loads transferring across that boundary to keep the outside out and the inside in awesome and then I and J are also on which system that's a window I and J are representing a window all right enclosure great um so windows are um a main contributor and the enclosure system when we start talking about um emission so they can't contribute internal gains so solar gain um they can also contribute to things like unintentional air leakage which can impact the the need for heating and cooling and also um relate to how much we need to provide ventilation or filtration air all right um where were we we didn't do K let's do k k is this H this yellow streak here indicating some sun sun on your building external correct all right and then l l we talked about a little bit earlier renewable energy yep you've got it and then m m is indicating some sort of thermal insulation thermal insulation that would help reduce those loads enclosure yep all right well thanks everyone thanks for playing along um helps to break down these components so that we can get a better feel for which systems we might be talking about and then um I'm gonna hand this off to Steve he's going to be talking about an example building and looking at the energy demands consumption and GRE greenhouse gas emissions and how those all connect with one another excuse me I had to clar my throat there for a second um yeah just just want to demonstrate sort of just some bar charts almost math uh you know how these different parts of the buildings interact um so this is two bar graphs on the left these are all the kind of indicating sort of a typical building where the heat losses are in the winter time so we we lose heat out the the basement and below grade or the slab on grade we lose heat out the roof uh on the left far left side we lose as as a a as Bailey mentioned we lose heat out the windows we lose lose heat out the walls um through infiltration this is air leakage through through the envelope and then we have ventilation we need to provide fresh air um uh to improve the air quality inside the space for people uh and so we lose heat uh when that when that ventilation air has to be exhausted uh the bar on the right has to be the exact same size same height so all the all the heat losses are made up with heat gains if you're going to heat the building and some of those heat gains are free um so internal gains is coming from lights receptacles anything you plug into the wall and uh people we're all little 100 watt light bulbs running around the building uh and you get some free heat from the windows through the solar gains and then the rest in red that's our thermal demand that that's how much heat we need to provide to the building from our furnace from our boiler or from our heat pump um would you show the next uh barers I think Advance ahead yep um and so that thermal heat uh that thermal demand needs provid you need to consume energy to do it uh so often it's natural gas soon there'll be more and more heat pumps in the Boston area in Massachusetts um domestic hot water is also a heat consumption uh and then to move that heat around the building you often need fans or pumps uh to move heat into the building from where it's being produced at the boiler and throughout the building and of course we need to use energy to operate the lights we need to use energy to operate the receptacles uh and so on and so you can kind of see by following this through if I have better Windows with less heat loss that means my thermal demand is going to be lower and therefore my heating energy consumption is going to be lower or if I improve the solar gains by you know the building is oriented to the South and it collects lots of free sunlight uh that would also reduce the thermal demands uh ironically internal gains by having more lights uh reduces your thermal demand but of course you need electricity to run the light so usually in the walk in in in the balance of things more lights is actually just more energy use overall and if you want to uh bring on the next slide and this one is just using your current emission rates for electricity and and natural gas uh how would that turn into emissions for the building um and right now electricity is uh uh currently slightly dirtier slightly more carbon per unit of energy uh than natural gases um and so that's why we're showing that you can see that the heating and the domestic hot water which is coming from natural gas shrinks a little bit and everything else got kind of got a little bit bigger um but that's going to change over time let's see next slide or the next uh animation uh so those electrical end uses as your whoops go back as your as your grid gets cleaner are going to sort of shrink on their own um but also if you had more efficient lights switched everything to LED more efficient fans uh variable speed fans variable speed pumps more efficient cooling uh less solar gains uh in the summertime to reduce the cooling load better lights reduces the cooling load as well um Andor you know more insulation or more efficient heating systems that will reduce the the the ghd emissions associated with those gas uses which is the the ones in red um we're not expecting natural gas to get all by itself cleaner natural gas is just uh methane uh there'll may be some renewable natural gas may show up on your uh gas grid eventually that'll lower those emissions but the natural gas itself is expect to be pretty static in the future so that'll kind of give you an idea of how all these things link together um and the other thing to keep in mind when it comes to real buildings uh is most of the systems in buildings do have a natural life cycle they need to be replaced eventually uh Unfortunately they don't need to be replaced at the same time they all have different life cycles so if you go right into the middle of this table structure the hope is the structure is going to last the lifetime of the building the building's not going to suddenly fall down um you know may need to to if it's a a multif family building you may need to touch up the balconies every every 40 years but for the most part the structure is going to stay but mechanical systems uh like uh primary HVAC equipment that's the second row from the top um boilers chillers rooftop units uh they're going to need a little bit of maintenance every 5 to 10 years and typically need to be replaced every 15 to 25 years uh minor HVAC assist systems like pumps and fans they tend to be need to be replaced every 10 to 15 years Windows often last 20 to 50 years depending on the on the Windows um uh old single glaze windows can last a long long long time the sealed unit uh insulating glazing unit windows don't last quite as long um and and the reason to bring this up is building owners that are looking to replace systems to be more efficient are usually timing these things to end of life because you know when you have to replace the window anyways replacing it with a better window I already have the cost of replacing the window I just need to pay for the incremental cost of the better window uh so they're usually just looking to replace things at those end of lives uh which is to say most buildings you know the building that can do a deep energy retrofi and replace everything all at once tends to be a unicorn uh they tend to be quite unique most buildings are going to do a plan over time uh so next slide I guess we're going to stop there for questions yeah quick break for questions um any questions on the building as a system subsystems how those systems might work together okay all right next we're going to jump into uh the greenhouse gases groundwork so when we're talking about reducing building missions um we're actually talking about the goal of reducing greenhouse gases emitted from buildings and carbon dioxide is the most commonly emitted greenhouse gas related to building energy sources so there are other greenhouse gases that we'll hear about things like methane nitrous oxide or coronated gases um but really when we look at building emissions we're Focus fed on reducing carbon emissions and so Steve's now going to talk about how we can frame uh buildings in carbon and what that relationship looks like yeah um so this is kind of a the diagram of all the carbon related to U building and operating in the building um but we're Berto is really focused on the last two um so embod carbon there is carbon related to uh the construction of a building there's carbon related to um uh making concrete making steel uh making insulation uh and this is all carbon that's emitted before the building is even occupied um and probably in about 10 more years you're going to be seriously looking at this too because uh as we start improving everything else the embod carbon of new buildings becomes more important uh but right now Berto was focused on operational carbon and avoided emissions uh in particular uh operational emissions come in direct and indirect emissions often and more commonly universally called scope one and scope two emissions uh and an avoid admissions are um you know any renewable energy uh installed on the building purchase power agreement carbon offsets and things like that next slide so I already mentioned sorry steeve we were gonna take a we were gonna take a brief pause here in sorry okay so we wanted to do another activity with everybody um so drawing on what we learned about Building Systems just a few minutes ago and your own experiences um we'd like to hear from everyone if we can uh some examples of of what causes building emissions so where are those emissions coming from in the building um so one example would be Heating and Cooling our indoor spaces so this is really kind of just a brainstorming session if you'd rather come off of mute and share your ideas totally fine as well um or you can drop them in the chat well you said the major ones which is no heting and cooling um electric electricity you know is the other one that uh one can add I know we're not getting scope three so I'll avoid that for now so right you're setting us up well for our next slide there Stephen so so um our our goal in in just having this kind of mini brainstorm session is start to starting to think about where these emissions come from and there's various ways that we can compartmentalize those emissions and there's some good feedback here so you know gas does and cooking and various aspects of the enclosure have an impact on how much energy we use Claudia brought in boilers as an example um onsite renewable has a contribution as well um so these are some great great feedback here it's a very rare one but Refrigeration for certain commercial buildings is uh another one or sort of um any construction company that has duration on site so that might be a whole very specific one so there we go yeah that's a great Point Stephen yeah yeah some um some refrigerants uh are greenhouse gases themselves actually quite a few we call that's that would be part of scope three and we call them fugitive emissions great name good segue Steve you wanna jump in on various uh yeah so we we've already heard this already mentioned scope one scope two scope three Berto is concerned about scope one and scope two emissions scope one emissions are probably the easiest to understand if the chimney or the tailpipe from whatever you're burning is in your building that's scope one um so any fossil fuel you're burning in in in in your building to provide space heating um or domestic hot water that's scope one emissions scope two emissions are energy you consume in your building but the tailpipe or the chimney is not in your building so somewhere out there in Massachusetts someone is burning natural gas to turn to uh turn turn a magnet and make electricity um and you are consuming that electricity but the tailpipe is at that Generating Station uh but because you're consuming the electricity you are counting that scope to emissions um now your scope two emissions are somebody else's scope one emission so that person at that generating plant that's their scope one emission but we're going to call it your scope two emission because it's indirect to you uh and then scope three emissions are energy use and I said Berto doesn't count those at all uh but any energy use related to operating the business in the building so if it's a Consulting office we track our commuting we track our uh uh business flights uh and things like that uh we could also track um uh anything we purchase the the embodied carbon related to paper the embodied carbon related to our our phones and our laptops and things like that but that scope three is not included in Berto uh and then Downstream of your activities you you can create scope indirect uh emissions for things that you produce if I'm actually a factory making light bulbs uh then there's EMB body carbon for those light bulbs so again my scope one emissions or scope two emissions can become somebody else's scope three emissions by by consuming the very things that I'm producing in my business next slide so just kind of an example and this example here could be for a district Energy System or for the electrical system uh so we'll call it the electrical system they're they have an energy source uh to generate electricity fun they got to convert that chemical energy in fossil fuels and natural gas and convert that into electrical energy and in doing so they emit their scope one emissions and then they have to transmit that to you over the power lines um and then finally it gets to your building where you consume that electrical energy this is a direct connection all the way back to where those emissions and where that fossil fuel was consumed uh similarly it could be a district energy plant uh on a University campus um and they're using fossil fuels at that campus plant they are Distributing hot and or cold water throughout the uh or steam throughout the campus and that's being distributed to the individual buildings where they consume or they use that energy to heat the buildings uh next slide uh in terms of electrical emissions uh or electrical emissions in in Massachusetts grid you can see the big green chunk of the pie is natural gas that's by far your number one uh source of emissions for making electricity uh the number two source of uh uh of um uh Power is actually solar but solar is zero it's one of those zeros at the top of the pie chart um so it's got zero emissions associated with it uh and then we got some minor other ones um uh that's that's generating power on the Massachusetts GID and they make up the other 25% uh of the total emissions associated with with the Grid in Massachusetts and again this is cleaning up that that Green Piece of Pie being displaced with more solar it's being displaced with more wind and hopefully um other things as well as time goes on uh next slide uh I had to fix literally Bailey I had to fix this a math mistake while you were talking on this CRA I had a little metric IP conversion error I'm in Toronto um so this is your grid over time the blue line is your projected grid emissions over time and and when it gets below into the green area which is going to happen somewhere around 2029 uh that's when heat pump heating is going to start emitting less carbon than burning natural gas in your own buildings uh so that's going to happen fairly quickly in about three or four years uh and projecting that all the way up to 2049 if all this happens and comes true and these Emissions on the electric we keep reducing even electric resistance heating will produce less carbon than burning natural gas in the building so this is why electrification is becoming such a big deal uh it is far easier uh to create clean electricity than it is to create clean fuels uh and distribute clean fuels to buildings for space heating so there's going to be a lot of electrification happening to decarbonize some of these buildings next slide and this is just a case study of what uh some of the reporting buildings are going to be thinking about as they try to create these plans over time uh to decarbonize building so this is a case study I I I worked on um we called it the amoeba building it wasn't a straight line anywhere not even the hallways were straight in this building uh but next slide um and and basically we say every building needs a plan uh they need a plan that that includes looking at load reduction that extra insulation in the walls and in the roof uh the better performing windows then looking at Energy Efficiency and low carbon uh then looking at uh so changing your heating and cooling equipment to from from fossil fuels to electricity typically then looking at renewable energy to generate and off offset some of your on-site carbon emissions uh and then finally looking at the carbon offsets uh such what was it called the AC someone help me out the acronym alternate alternative compliance pavment thank [Laughter] you uh so that could be a type of carbon offset as well uh and but as I mentioned already earlier you know load reduction you want to do load reduction first that means you need a smaller boiler or a smaller heat pump uh in your building but if the windows are only 5 years old and the walls are going to last another 30 years but hey maybe the roof is Du for replacement in five years we can look at replacing the roof but the other thing is it gets harder to look at the financial uh case gets harder to replace things before they get their end their life uh next slide uh so this is just an example of that particular project uh amoeba building I showed you these are all the contemplated carbon reduction measures we looked at walls increasing our value in the walls and better Windows triple blaz Windows uh fixing the roof doing air tightness uh to to uh reduce that infiltration uh looking at the plant uh converting the the boiler to air to water heat pump um I also looked at the ground Source heat pump uh demand control ventilation energy recovery on the ventilation uh and also putting PV on the parking lot and on on some of the roof of the building so these are all the things we looked at uh next slide uh but then we had to walk them through well when does this happen again most buildings don't get an opportunity to do everything at once uh most buildings need to come up with a plan over time we kind of identified three time periods for them sort of right now 2020 to 2030 what could you do uh other things were due for renewable in 2030 to 2040 and then some later on in 2040 to 2050 and and sometime and some of these pasts we actually went and upgraded the windows now even though the windows weren't due to be upgraded yet uh or we you know did the installation now even though the walls weren't ready to be upgraded yet uh just to see what that would look like in the financing next slide and gave him a a cash flow chart and this what would look like in the financing um and so the the yellow line is kind of the worst case that just everything's negative um and that's when we did all the enclosures now even though they don't need to be replaced now which me we're taking the full Financial hit of the walls of of replacing the en uh upgrading the enclosure now uh and then putting in the bet uh the air source heat pump and then uh putting the PV in later uh and you know blue is uh doing the the heat pump now um and and doing other things later and so on um and so we kind of put this cash flow together for them so they can make their decisions uh next slide uh and this kind of shows well all the different combinations uh what was the end result uh so the dark red is the green greenhouse gas emissions intensity in kilograms per square meter per year uh currently you know a lot of emissions all of these are cutting their emissions by about 80% just different you know in that long-term path uh but in the red numbers on their bottom are just the different Net Present values that get there uh and they actually chose uh not the lowest cost which is D they actually chose themselves A1 they wanted to get their enclosures upgraded in the future um so slightly more expensive for them but once they started including things like a price on carbon the sort of make sense so once you include the ACP costs then that's that's your that's your financial leverage uh next slide can stop there for questions any questions from the review board yeah how how did you get an air source heat pump to work heat the building uh the newest air to water heat pumps work down to minus5 fahit now and the building can be heated with low temp H water yeah so The Bu The the building had um enough radiation or the the building was already designed to work with um uh condensing furnaces so they were already heating with 120 Fahrenheit that's one of the biggest challenge with old buildings it is one of the biggest challenges with old buildings yes uh and and of course if you replace all your perimeter radiation with low temperature you're spending an awful lot of money not to get any Energy savings you're only enabling the heat pump yeah and very disruptive to the up to the um yeah the side the flip side is if if you could and and not every building's going to be able to do it but if you know to go from 180 uh perimeter radiant to 120 you're roughly cutting the heat output in half so if you could double uh if you could cut the heat losses out the enclosure in half everything works Steve can you talk a little bit more about the influential factors that drove like the final decision making obviously cost was considered but were there any other project limitations the cost were a big one for them um comfort was as well they they they really wanted the triple glaze Windows um to deal with some comfort issues that were having um and they were looking in a context where there was going to be a price on carbon soon um and and so that was another Factor they were looking at uh the price on carbon that being considered is $300 a ton okay any other questions before we move on all right all right hi this is Hannah um sorry I'm um I know I'm not the intended audience but I do have a question just for a clarification question for anyone watching this back um on the slide you talked about the differences between um electric resistance and heat pumps and I'm wondering if you could just explain what the difference of those Technologies are um and why they have different outcomes I need a graph for that um well heat heat pumps are aply named they they move heat from one place and from one place to another uh so an air source heat pump is actually literally taking heat out of the ambient air in the winter time when it's you know 10 Fahrenheit outside removing that heat and pump it into the building and because it's only moving heat it can do it very very efficiently matter of fact typically we can move two to between two and three units of heat for one unit electricity operating the pump um and then you may have heard of ground Source heat pumps ground Source heat pumps are taking the heat out of the ground because the ground doesn't get that cold it it's even more efficient so you could be moving three to three and a half uh sometimes even four units of heat for one unit electricity consumed from the grid uh electric resistance heating is literally heating up the hot uh anyone have an electric uh stove top uh that's electric resistance you're heating up a wire till it gets hot uh and you get one unit of heat for one unit of electricity uh so that's why there's a difference it's going to take you're going to need a much cleaner grid for electric resistance heat to start making sense from a greenhouse gas perspective it is low cost to install especially in the new building um could be a little more challenging an existing building it's a lot of wiring and then a big cost you're going to come a lot of existing buildings will come across is do they have the electrical capacity to do these electric conversions because then you're looking at replacing the switch gear and maybe the Transformer and that switch gear and Transformer typically has a 50 60 year life cycle um they don't need replace that often so that may be one of the challenges some of the buildings will have if they can't Electrify easily without upgrading their their electrical capacity good question thank you Hannah are there any other questions from the the review board or department or anyone else online all right right all right so let's look at some of the uh the Berto groundwork um so the goal of bro is Vero is to reduce uh Boston's contribution to climate change obviously so um buildings covered by Vero represent approximately 5% of all buildings and they in Boston they account for about 40% of Boston's total emissions um so Boston Berto requires large buildings to reduce emissions um over time by emission standards which building owners must comply with annually starting in 2025 and 2030 so all buildings are expected to reach net zero emissions by 2050 and uh so what Berto encourages what we've already started to learn about here today is uh retrofits Energy Efficiency improvements fuel switching and renewable um energy generation in local buildings and with those improvements um we're looking at uh Downstream effects of improving thermal comfort and indoor air quality for building occupants reducing outdoor air pollution promoting and development of green jobs and then directing further investments into low carbon equ plastin um so what exactly is an emission standard um this is also known as the emission limit this is referring to the regulated amount of climate polluting greenhouse gases which we learned Prim really talking about carbon here um allowed to be released by Berto buildings into the atmosphere um so we can see here on the right hand side of this chart um that um there's various types of buildings identified different use types and uh overall these buildings will reduce their emissions over time roughly every five years uh demonstrate some reduction across those five years in order to reach those net zero emissions by 2050 um and some of these uh building use types have higher average emissions for some building types than others and um knowing what we've learned about buildings as a system today and some various energy sources um I'm I'm curious if anybody would like to chime in and share why they think emission standards vary um does anyone want to share an example of why some of these emissions limits for some building uh use types are much higher than other use types Steve what do you think he y yeah well no it um you know the even at the buildings per a insulated the same way um ventilation is a Big Driver um and how much fresh air you need and that's different between an office and say a a residential building um residential buildings also tend to have much more domestic hot water consumption so that you know that tends to push their ghgs up because you they're typically burning fossil fuels to do so uh food sales and services um that includes restaurants uh restaurants have big Fume hoods uh to extract all the smells out of the kitchen that has to be replaced with new air that needs to be heated uh and cooled uh so that tends to drive uh their their energy y up um healthc care um just the uh ashray 170 uh vent code requirements for dealing with ventilation and mechanical systems uh tends to cause a lot of reheat uh so cooling and heating simultaneously in the building uh that pushes that energy use up really comes down to buildings are all unique uh by their program and that program can move their energy use and therefore carbon emissions around quite a bit Jack you came off Mike did you have something mute did you have something you wanted to add oh did I well I was going to I was going to say operating hours you know a Hospital's occupied 168 hours a week versus an office building at 50 hours yeah certainly I agreed any questions on this topic or um any any examples to add I would just add oh sorry this is be we do have a number of like industrial buildings in Boston and so they each have unique services that they provide with unique needs uh and sometimes unique equipment so just a just all just reiterating that it's all dependent on the yeah they may not even fit in this this but bucket you gave them awesome thanks t Okay um so knowing every uh every use type has a standard limmit there um what happens when uh buildings have multiple uses what how is that building approach their compliance um that's when we might start looking at the flexibility measure of the Blended emission standard um what that allows is it considers the use of the various building areas relative to its square footage and provides an area weighted opportunity to demonstrate compliance across different standards standard limits um so as an example say we had a multi-use building that had 60% multif family 25% in uh closed parking and 15% retail so you'd simply just take the uh the square footage um aspects of those areas by the standard emissions for those use types um and here it's looking at the percentage of that area in the multiplying it out and coming up with a BL a blended emission uh standard for that particular building so this is one way in which flexibility measures can be used for compliance um not something that the board has to weigh in specifically on this flexibility mejor um but one way that buildings can demonstrate from clients um so when we start thinking about compliance um Steps From the owner's seat uh we have a small overview today just to start thinking about how a building owner would would walk through a compliance process and and how they might be looking at various challenges what what might impact them um so we can better understand how to make decisions when reviewing flexibility applications um so a building owner would first need to determine their compliance requirement and their deadline um so compliance would be looking at you know are they residential or non-residential um looking at their number of units and square footage relative to just the the compliance requirements and then once determined that they need to be um demonstrating the compliance by a specific year they would look into the emissions reporting process and they would start with the the Berto um reporting form they would collect energy and water use data and then populate their energy Star portfolio manager account uh which would collect all their building specific information all the data about their um their energy use and water usage and pull that all together so that they could submit that to the department um and then at that point they would have the opportunity to clearly be able to identify uh what their energy uses and the corresponding um emissions using the appropriate emissions factors so how a building might comply if they have um they might demonstrate compliance immediately if they are under their standard limit for their use their building use um but they Al might also need to look at other ways of complying so that they can bring their building um within compliance one of those OP options is to reduce energy use in the building um so we're going to focus most on this one today and then options two and three and flexibility measures we'll touch on those today but those are primarily going to be our Focus for the next time that we meet so in option one here um this has a potential to be the most impactful way to reduce a building's overall direct emissions and that's because the building can undergo a retrofit and general improvements to reduce energy use at the source so knowing what we've learned about this system um another question for you all to drop your answers into the chat um what are some ways to specifically reduce energy consumption in a building we've talked about quite a few today so this is a bit of a recap um but one example would be reducing Heating and Cooling Demand by reducing unintentional air leakage across the building closure so we learned that old windows can be air leaky we might have another intentional unintentional air flow which might create drafts and require us to provide more heating for our building in cold winter months but there's lots of other examples all right not seeing any yet but that's okay um we can definitely take a look at some options here so this is the same illustration that um that we saw earlier hang dry close there you go reducing your energy consumption I like that um uh this is the same illustration that we saw earlier um here we have some solutions to how we might improve the Energy Efficiency of um or change possibly behaviors um to reduce the overall energy demand and reduce um emissions so um some of these um examples include things like um hot water so upgrading to a more energy efficient um and electric hot water heater that might be one solution that um a building could take a look at um installing new appliances um energy star appliances appliances that are electric and more energy efficient than what they might already have in the building um induction stoves is another example um Steve's already talked a fair bit of about switching to heat pumps and electric resistance heating um all electrically powered systems there um temperature controls obviously this is um this is just regulating Heating and Cooling loads uh to a greater degree installing um more efficient Lighting systems this weather stripping and sealing this could be anything from weather stripping and sealing a window to doing kind of an overhaul to provide a a whole building air barrier on that building so that it uh it has better controlled um um uh less sorry less less leaky um air leakage across the building enclosure um window upgrades uh various window treatments even small things like blinds with reflective finishes those types of things can can reduce um overall heating needs and then roof upgrades um solar energy and improving insulation so a lot of this looks at improving the overall um building enclosure to reduce those external loads from impacting the environment and heing fing needs um or generating onsite renewable energy to help offset uh those direct admissions that we have on site all right and as a building owner there are many factors that a building owner might um endure when they start looking at how to improve their building whether it's a simple retrofit or more substantial uh retrofit um there can be a number of factors that might cause barriers that might be unforeseen in improving a building and um so when we start reducing energy in a building um let's have um anyone can come off mic and give some examples that they think an owner might face in terms of challenges surprises when retrofitting their building I'll give you that first few that our team came up with in advance of training so one being historic buildings um the limitation of possibly insulating a historic building covering up interior or exterior finishes that might have historic prevalence and another might be moisture control so when we start to add insulation to buildings we affect the moisture balance of the enclosure we U want to avoid things like um increasing the risk for condensation air leakage condensation um or just generally changing the way that that wall um potentially dries there any other examples that or ideas that come to mind for anyone the tenant can be an issue yes certainly yes the people side of things right yeah disruption yeah potential disruption I think is a key factor in all of us as well um I know for us we're Boston's an older city um if you're fuel switching maybe your building was not equipped maybe you need some upgrad and wiring in yeah definitely yeah so we we have a quite a list here and this is I imagine there's there's many more that we could be listing out but um um as Diana said so retrofits um might require um various existing electric or trigger existing electrical capacity issues so is there enough capacity in the building to uh to Electrify various components um maybe mechanical systems um need more space than the current mechanical uh Supply system has capacity for that could be a room it could be running decks through the building it could be even things like acoustic limitations um there might be structural limitations various loads the building might not be able to support new loads that might need to be placed on it whether that's additional insulation or mechanical systems um there might even be lot line restrictions so whether you know how can you access the building in order to install new windows from the interior the exterior if it has to be from the exterior you might not be disrupting tenants as much but can you can you achieve that with any sort of like lot line restrictions and accessibility of that that building enclosure same goes for insulation or other improvements on the outside um retrofits uncovering other possibly more major issues sometimes when you open a building you start to find more than you knew about um so possibly um structural improvements that might need to happen um other remedial effects um and this this plays into what Rashida talked about the impact to tenants right there might be unforeseen impacts on tenants even as you start to open a building and want to ensure their safety during construction related activities um challenges securing Capital expenditures uh when we saw that uh everybody building system or every building needs a plan example that c that uh presented um you know part of that was looking at the the costs associated with each of those options and what was most feasible for that particular particular building and client and then Contracting and implementation capabilities um some improvements um are more tricky than others some might require a different set of capabilities than others and um or just the general you know implementation having the right team available to to do the retrofit work all right so we've touched on reducing energy use in buildings and um should the should say an owner not uh choose to reduce energy use in buildings um there option two would be to obtain renewable energy and so in this bucket we'd be looking at something like um um opting in for the Boston Community Choice electricity which is a m municipal aggregation um to provide competitive supply of renewable electricity to Boston residents um it could be looking at things like on-site solar um so on-site or anywhere in Boston um that can help support offsetting those emissions could be renewable energy certificates so rex or even PPA power purchase agreements um so Rex and ppas all of these options kind of in this option two bucket is what we'll get to talk about during our next session and then um third option would be that alternative compliance payment um that we we alluded to a little bit earlier so payment that would go into the the new Equitable emission uh investment fund and looks at a cost relative to every metric ton of carbon emissions that a building is above its limits um and then if if those options don't necessarily feel like a direct fit for a building owner then there are the flexibility me me available and so we've talked about a few of those today uh we did talk about the Blended emission standard in which a building can can leverage the various uses to come up with a blended emissions based on square footage of use um one we haven't talked about yet is the building portfolio so this would be where a a building owner can um basically apply a similar concept as Blended emissions but to multiple buildings within their portfolio so taking advantage of possibly more energy efficient buildings to help offset other less performing buildings um a third option would be the individual compliance schedule in which um the owner gets to establish a their own uh Baseline within a specific allowable year so they're um they would be looking at reducing their emissions overall so um roughly half of that by 2030 but would still need to red down to a net zero value by 2050 but this would allow building to kind of have its own path in reducing its emissions based on a unique starting point um and then and then the last would be the hardship compliance plan so allowing a building to come up with a unique plan for compliance which might be a unique standard limit and reduction over time um it could be a single building or possibly multiple buildings within the portfolio but trying to give um flexibility there in in terms of um hardship and need so um next time that we meet we'll talk more about those option two um uh compliance opportunities as well as we'll continue to talk about flexity flexibility measures all throughout our full training um before we wrap up today um we've got some time for a few more questions in a quick feedback session and then we can share more about uh our next meeting on the 24th are there there any questions from the review board or the department or anyone else online relative to any of the topics that we talked about today yeah just to jump in I'm I'm just curious what you've been seeing um with respects to community solar programs and how you know they've been sort of shaping up in Boston because I one of the things that I've been curious about is you know whether tenants uh could sort of petition for Community solar as a co-op and in a city of Austin and I know we have a smart program but I'm just curious from your perspective or your industry perspective how viable or how much are you seeing that happen recognizing that there's not a lot of space in Boston for for solo to go but I'm just curious what you're seeing so far yeah that's a really great question um I don't have the best feedback on that right now is there anyone else online that might be able to weigh in on some of the effects that Stephen's asking about yeah I can jump in um yeah so I would say we haven't seen a ton of community solar in Boston um what but but there are like more um I think like I've I've heard of more initiatives to try to get more Community solar stood up across Massachusetts and the um Ira the inflation reduction act um from the federal government has new solar tax credits that have rolled out over the last I don't even think it's been a year um and so that is also changing kind of the equation of solar financing um across the country um so I think we may see some changes in kind of the solar Market um I would say that from like an ease of adopting renewable energy that um aggregation programs like the one that Boston has of the Boston Community Choice electricity um tend to be like the easiest for tenants and small electric customers to take advantage of um because you can get you know Mass class one recks high quality renewable energy um without a lot of effort like the city is going and procuring that on your behalf and that's an easier lift than even trying to you know pull together and and find a community solar project to sign up for thank you for sharing that um Hannah because I you know I I hear it come up a lot in in conversation and so we try to push the Community Choice electric um and I think it it's one of those topics where residential tenants because I I do believe commercial tenants tend to have a little bit more say in how they want to retrofit their space or um especially if they're a tenant of the entire building what they choose to update but um as board member Boyd pointed out earlier the tenant piece tends to be a little bit difficult when it comes to like weatherization and and and trying to update you know the the the envelope of their space whether or not they know what that looks like and and sometimes a tenant may not even have the ability to uh even manipulate their thermostat I I I I'd love to get a smart thermostat in my you know residential unit but it's not something that's allowed and so it I mainly ask sort of these questions to see how we can better work to not only uh inform the tenants whether tenants of our community but also you know make it much more feasible for landlords to either I don't want to use the word relax but maybe I should use the word relax certain aspects when it comes to tenants wanting to uh better make their make their space more uh of a a low carbon space so to speak so um thank you for that on the the community the community solar but I am also curious about the the way that we can go about communicating for other things Beyond Community solar as well yeah I would just add quickly this is a very big topic of conversation in the discussions around the three-year plan for Mass Save which is um they're reviewing the draft threeyear plan that will run from 2025 through 2027 for massave right now um and there's a lot of discussion around how do we better serve um renters and a lot of that is is through um you know working more with landlords and providing different incentives for rental buildings so um we are we're trying to push also from the from Boston to make sure that the plan is um kind of providing the most the mass safe works as best as it can for rental buildings as well knowing that it's an extra hurdle many times to get um those measures taken did this just start um no the three-year planning process I feel like it starts I can't tell you exactly when it starts but it's like it's a very long process it's like they're constantly planning but um I can find the link to the draft plan that is under discussion right now okay I I would love to see that um thank you Hannah I have no further questions uh one question just because we're in the spirit of this exercise um and thinking forward as new members join they may watch this recording uh Hannah mentioned Mass class one Rex so I don't know if we wanted to to explain what that meant Han I can I can do that um so Mass class one Rex a renewable energy certificate is a wreck um and uh that is the documentation of the environmental benefits of renewable energy um so they can be bought and sold um and they have a value to them Mass class one rexs are in Massachusetts the um certain definition of kind of the highest quality renewable energy that is from New England um and so that is what through the Boston Community Choice electricity program the city is procuring additional Mass class one rex on behalf of customers of that program and customers of that program are um residents of Boston who are paying an um electric bill all right thank you thank you Hannah thank you Diana and Stephen any other questions all right uh we do have a a quick learner survey for the review board members online today um if you could we'll go ahead and just take it now it's a quick one minute survey um so you can scan this QR code and I apologize I do not have the link right now if you are unable to scan a consent after the sessions that you can provide feedback and uh what we learned from this survey is um is information that we'll be able to app apply to Future training session so this will give the feedback that we need uh in order to continue to improve the training and to build out some of the the technical topics that you're hoping to learn about and we inform in that continued development of our plan all Bailey one clarifying question should the department also take the survey or is this you are more than to yeah yeah let's if for those um on the call today from the Department you are totally welcome to as well um anyone is welcome to add their information um I believe it will collect your contact information um so that we can press out who is from the review board the department as well as the and I am working on getting a copy of that uh that link right now for you oh thank you thank you Lynn behind the scenes there all right and when you're done let's have folks do a quick hands up to uh to let us know that we're get to move on thanks Rich nope that's all I needed you're good all right link is oh that's for the three-year link Stephen that's the okay oh let me try to get a different one sorry about that all right folks we um we'll go ahead and move to wrapping up today um so our next steps um we'll meet again on June 24th during the public meeting um and at that time we'll get more in the Weeds on the purpose and steps of an energy audit when you might undertake an energy audit and what exactly is a part of the audit and what that leads to how it informs um a building's plan we'll describe why every building needs a decarbonization plan Steve did a really good intro uh with a case study today but we'll get a little bit more in the Weeds on what that plan looks like and how it could be used to demonstrate compliance over time or to support uh various needs for flexibility measures we'll start um defining we'll Define what district energy systems are and start talking about ppas and Rex which we had a little bit of a glimpse of today so we'll talk more about that next time and then just a reminder um the third and fourth weeks of July we will have small cohort training um you'll be receiving more information for that uh next week so we'll be identifying um who will be in which small group cohort and um scheduling the best time for everyone to be able to join um so we have more information for you next week on that it and that is the end of our formal training are there any questions um for our team as we wrap up today all right well thanks everyone we appreciate the opportunity to deliver training today well thank you Bailey and thank you Steve um from RDA we appreciate it uh so is there a motion to adjourn this meeting motion to adjourn is there a second a second on the motion to adjourn the meeting board members in favor say I I I I I have it the motion passes this meeting is adjourned at 6:20 pm thank you all thank you have a good guys later thanks everyone good night bye bye