##VIDEO ID:1igYsoibpgg##  GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.  MY NAME IS ENRIQUE PEPEN. I'M THE BOSTON CITY COUNCILOR FOR DISTRICT FIVE AND I'M THE CHAIR OF THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON CITY SERVICES AND TECHNOLOGY INNOVATION. TODAY IS MONDAY, OCTOBER SEVENTH, 2024. THIS HEARING IS BEING RECORDED. IS ALSO BEING LIVESTREAMED AT BOSTON DOT GOV SLASH CITY COUNCIL DASH TV AND BROADCAST IT ON EXTENDED CHANNEL EIGHT RCN CHANNEL 82 FILES CHANNEL 964.  WRITTEN COMMENTS MAY BE SENT TO THE COMMITTEE EMAIL C C C S I T AT BOSTON DOT GOV AND WILL BE MADE PART OF THE RECORD AND AVAILABLE TO ALL COUNCILORS.  PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE TAKEN AT THE END OF THIS HEARING.  INDIVIDUALS WILL BE CALLED IN ORDER IN WHICH THEY SIGNED UP AND WILL HAVE 2 MINUTES TO TESTIFY. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN TESTIFYING PERSON PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME TO THE SIGN UP SHEET NEAR THE ENTRANCE OF THE CHAMBER. IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO TESTIFY VIRTUALLY PLEASE EMAIL OUR CENTRAL STAFF LIAISON RON COBB AT OUR OWN SCOTT C OPB AT BOSTON.  OUR GOV FOR THE LINK IN YOUR NAME WILL BE ADDED TO THE LIST . TODAY'S HEARING IS ON DOCKET NUMBER 1130. ORDER FOR A HEARING TO IMPLEMENT COMMUNITY SAFE AND BIRTH CONTROL TO PROTECT BOSTON FAMILIES COMPANION ANIMALS AND WILDLIFE. THIS MATTER WAS SPONSORED BY MYSELF AND OUR COUNCIL PRESIDENT RUDY LOUIJEUNE AND WAS REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON JULY TEN, 2020 FOR TODAY. I'M JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL. COUNCILOR MURPHY. COUNCILOR COLETTE ZAPATA.  COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE. COUNCILOR FITZGERALD AT THIS MOMENT I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE MY COLLEAGUES AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE A QUICK OPENING REMARKS STARTING WITH THE ORIGINAL ONE OF THE ORIGINAL CO-SPONSORS OF THIS BILL. COUNCIL PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE THANK YOU. COUNCILOR ABANDONED THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE THIS MORNING FOR US TO DISCUSS BIRTH CONTROL AMONG THE MANY THINGS THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING AS A CITY COUNCIL TO ADDRESS THE CITY'S RODENT POPULATION. WE KNOW THAT THIS IS A COUNCIL THAT CARES DEEPLY ABOUT ADDRESSING THEIR BASIC EVERYDAY ISSUES THAT OUR RESIDENTS BRING TO US ONE OF THEM BEING RACKING VOTING ISSUES. AND SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW DO WE IMPROVE OUR WASTE MANAGEMENT TO REDUCE SHELTER AND FOOD SOURCES FOR RODENTS? HOW DO WE TRY TO GET THE BACK SUPPLY OF DRY ICE? SO MANY THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING OUT HERE TODAY. WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT OUT VOTING CONTROL AND I JUST WANT TO SHOUT OUT THE JP NEIGHBORHOOD AND ELENI AND EVERYONE WHO WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH TO SEE IF RAT BIRTH CONTROL IS A POSSIBLE SOLUTION. AND I WANT TO ALSO THANK THE CITY OF BOSTON.  I ISDA ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES EVERYONE WHO HAS REALLY HELPED US JOHN WHO HAS REALLY BEEN CENTRAL TO HELPING US FIND SOLUTIONS HERE TO OUR ROAD AND PROBLEM IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU AGAIN TO MY COLLEAGUES, TO EVERYONE WHO'S BEEN WORKING ON THIS AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THIS CONVERSATION. THANK YOU.  COUNCILOR MURPHY UM, THANK YOU TO THE PANELIST HERE AND ALSO THE CITY EXPERTS WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME . I'VE BEEN ON SEVERAL RAT WALKS ACROSS THE CITY LIKE MANY OF US HAVE AND KNOW THAT YOU KNOW, IT'S A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE NOT JUST THE FEAR THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE AND THE NUISANCE BUT JUST ALSO THE NEGATIVE HEALTH IMPACTS THAT IT HAS. SO WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE COUNCIL DIFFERENT OPTIONS LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS CONVERSATION TO SEE IF THIS IS ONE MORE TOOL YOU KNOW WE CAN PUT INTO OUR TOOLBOX. IT'S NEVER ONE THING THAT'S GOING TO ADDRESS THIS CONCERN THAT SOME NEIGHBORS WOULD SAY IT'S LIKE OVERTAKING WHY PEOPLE ARE MOVING OUT BECAUSE OF IT. IT'S GOTTEN SO BAD IN SOME AREAS SO LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION AND SEEING HOW WE CAN MY OFFICE BUT ALSO THIS BODY CAN HELP TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT GOING FORWARD HOW WE TAKE CONTROL. SO THANK YOU, JOE. THANK YOU COUNCILOR . COUNCILOR CLEARY SUPPORTER THANK YOU CHAIR. GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY.  I APPRECIATE YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. I REPRESENT INCREDIBLY DENSE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE AND RESTAURANTS LIVE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY SO I AM ALWAYS CURIOUS ABOUT HOW WE ARE BEING INNOVATED INNOVATIVE AND CREATIVE AS A CITY TO MITIGATE THIS ISSUE, TRY TO SOLVE FOR IT. I KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT THE ONLY MUNICIPALITY IN THE WORLD THAT IS DEALING WITH PESTS AND RODENTS AND SO WHAT ARE WE DOING TO PARTNER WITH OUR SISTER CITIES LOOKING AT WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN OUR IN OUR ONGOING FIGHT AGAINST THE RATS AND THE RODENTS? I KNOW IN APRIL WE HELD A SIMILAR HEARING ON AN ORDINANCE WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION WAS TALKING ABOUT THEIR INCREDIBLE EFFORTS. SO LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING THEIR TESTIMONY AND ABOUT SOME OF THE WORK THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS A CONVERSATION THAT HAS TO STRIKE THAT DELICATE BALANCE BETWEEN MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE SOLVING FOR THIS RODENT CRISIS BUT ALSO BEING AWARE AND COGNIZANT OF THE ECOSYSTEM AROUND IT AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE HEALTHY AND MAINTAINING THEIR IMPORTANT VALUE IN OUR IN BOSTON'S ECOSYSTEM. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION AND AGAIN THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR COUNCILOR FITZGERALD THANK YOU, CHAIR AND THANK YOU TO THE PANEL FOR BEING HERE. LOOK FORWARD TO THIS CONVERSATION LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE BIRTH CONTROL FOR RATS AND OF COURSE IN DORCHESTER WE'VE WE CERTAINLY GET A LOT OF CALLS ABOUT THIS AS WELL. SO JUST HAPPY TO LEARN MORE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. COUNCILOR RUBBER THANK YOU CHAIR AND THANK YOU TO THE PANELS FOR BEING HERE AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF AND A RESIDENT OF JAMAICA PLAIN I AM EXCITED TO LEARN ABOUT THE PILOT PROGRAM THERE AND FIGURE OUT WAYS THAT WE CAN COMBAT THE ROAD AND PROBLEM IN WAYS THAT THAT DOES THE LEAST AMOUNT OF HARM TO EVERYONE ELSE.  SO THANKS FOR THIS AND THANKS FOR CALLING THIS HEARING.  THANK YOU, COUNCILOR BREADON. GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.  THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. I'M FROM ALLSTON BRIGHTON IT IS ONE OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAS THE HIGHEST RECORDED SORT OF RAT SIGHTINGS AND WE HAVE A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM BUT I DO APPRECIATE THE IMPORTANCE OF TRYING TO ADOPT INTERVENTIONS THAT DO NOT CAUSE HARM TO OTHER WILDLIFE AND TO HUMANS AS WELL.  I HAD GREAT HOPES FOR THE COYOTES. WE HAD AN INCREASED COYOTE POPULATION BUT THEY DIDN'T SEEM TO GET THE MEMO THAT THEY WERE MEANT TO GO AFTER RATS. BUT YES SO I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN YOUR CONVERSATION THIS MORNING AND TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW RODENT BIRTH CONTROL MIGHT BE A POSSIBLE STRATEGY FOR US IN THE CITY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . AND I'D JUST LIKE TO START BY ALSO SAYING THANK YOU TO THE PANELISTS THAT WE HAVE HERE TODAY. THANK IT TO THE CITY ADMINISTRATION FOR BEING HERE. I SEE CHIEF IRISH JOHN WARWICK ANTONIO REAL SERIOUSLY EVERYONE'S INPUT TODAY IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE ISSUE OF RODENTS IMPACTS EVERYONE AND IMPACTS OUR QUALITY OF LIFE.  IT IMPACTS THE CLEANLINESS OF OUR CITY. SO I'M JUST VERY THANKFUL THAT YOU'VE ALL DECIDED TO TAKE SOME TIME OUT OF YOUR DAY TO TELL US ABOUT THE WORK YOU ARE DOING WHICH IS WHY NOW I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU GUYS TO QUICKLY INTRODUCE YOURSELVES AND YOU ALL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE YOUR PRESENTATIONS BUT WE WANT TO START HERE AND MOVE YOUR WAY DOWN WITH JUST THAT YOUR NAME AND THE ORGANIZATION YOU ARE REPRESENTING.  AND THEN FROM.  GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS ELENA GONZALEZ WHITE AND I REPRESENT WISDOM GOOD WORKS WISDOM GOOD WORKS IS A501C3 NONPROFIT ESTABLISHED TO PROVIDE ALTERNATIVES TO LETHAL AND POISONOUS APPROACHES TO WILDLIFE POPULATION MANAGEMENT WHICH HAVE BEEN THE FAILING STATUS QUO FOR THE LAST SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS.  WE DO THIS BY INVESTING IN SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND SHARING OUR EXPERTISE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF REAL WORLD APPLICATIONS OF FERTILITY CONTROL MEASURES WHICH AIM TO MAKE THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE FOR ALL INHABITANTS INCLUDING THE CONSTITUENTS OF BOSTON OUR CHILDREN, OUR PETS ARE ENDANGERED MEMBERS OF THE FOOD CHAIN YES EVEN SAFER FOR THE RATS BECAUSE BY EXTENSION THE PREDATORS THAT NATURALLY COMBAT THEIR GROWING NUMBERS DESERVE AND UN POISONED FOOD SOURCE PAST ATTEMPTS TO APPLY FERTILITY CONTROL TO RATS AT THE CITY LEVEL HAVE FAILED BECAUSE AVAILABLE PRODUCTS AT THE TIME OF STUDY FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE OF THE BEHAVIOR OF THE WORLD'S FASTEST BREEDING MAMMAL ON EARTH WHILE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THAT DELIVERY MUST WITHSTAND THE CHANGING SEASONS AND WEATHER PATTERNS OF THE LOCATION.  ANY PRODUCTS THAT USED MUST MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE INTENDED TARGET. IF A FOOD IS WHAT AN URBAN RAT SEEKS, LET'S WORK WITH THE RAT FOR A PRODUCT TO COMPETE WITH NATURAL RESOURCES THAT ABOUND WHEREVER HUMANS LIVE YOU MUST MAKE IT CONTINUOUSLY EASILY AVAILABLE THE BEST TASTING AND OF COURSE EFFICACIOUS.  ABOVE ALL IT MUST BE SAFER FOR ANYONE WHO COMES INTO CONTACT WITH IT.  TO THAT END WE HAVE DEVELOPED WISDOM GOOD BITES.  I BROUGHT SOME FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE. IT'S A SOLID FEED PELLET AND IT MEETS ALL THE NUTRITIONAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE RAT WITH AN ACTIVE INGREDIENT THAT MAKES THEM INFERTILE. THIS PLANT DERIVED, NONTOXIC FUNCTIONAL FOOD IS A BETTER LONG TERM ALTERNATIVE TO POISON WHICH BARELY AND ONLY TEMPORARILY SLOWS THE GROWTH OF THEIR POPULATION. GOOD BITES HAVE SHOWN PROMISE IN AN AREA OF STUDY IN JAMAICA PLAIN OVER THE COURSE OF THE 13 MONTH STUDY WINDOW FROM AUGUST 2023 TO AUGUST 2024 WE MONITOR TWO TWO BLOCK AREA INCLUDING 31 INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES WE MONITORED WEEKLY NOTING THAT IN THE FIRST THREE MONTHS CONSUMPTION INCREASED. THIS INDICATES A BUILDING TRUST FROM A NOTORIOUSLY UNTRUSTING INDIVIDUAL THE RAT. AND RELIABILITY ON THE NEW FOOD SOURCE THAT WAS PLACED NEAR TRASH STORAGE AND IN YARDS AFTER PEAK CONSUMPTION WAS REACHED WE MEASURED THE DECREASE IN AMOUNT CONSUMED OVER TIME CORROBORATED WITH CAMERA TRAPPING INTERVAL TO MEASURE DECREASE IN RODENT POPULATION IN TEN OUT OF THE LAST 11 MONTHS DECLINE HAS BEEN HELD BETWEEN 50 AND 60% STEADILY WITH THE HIGHEST DECREASE MEASURED AT 70% THIS AUGUST WHILE A LETHAL KNOCKDOWN STRATEGY CAN EXPECT A FULL REBOUND AT 20 TO 24 WEEKS, GOOD BITES APPLICATION HAS SHOWED REPEATED SUSTAINED SUCCESS OVER TIME. WE APPLAUD THE CITY OF BOSTON FOR THE SUPPORT THEY'VE EXTENDED DURING THIS YEARLONG STUDY. HOWEVER, WE FEEL THE RODENT ACTION PLAN PUT FORTH BY THE CITY DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH TO INVEST RESOURCES IN EXPANDING ON THE SUCCESS WE'VE DEMONSTRATED IN JAMAICA PLAIN. THE RESIDENTS OF JAMAICA PLAIN HAVE DEMONSTRATED THIS SUCCESS TO SHOW AN IMPORTANT FIRST STEP HAS BEEN TAKEN IN RIDDING MASSACHUSETTS OF HARMFUL POISONS AND REPEATED HALF MEASURES. FERTILITY CONTROL IS A PROACTIVE APPROACH THAT IS A 21ST CENTURY SOLUTION TO AN AGE OLD PROBLEM. WE'D ALSO LIKE TO THANK COUNCILOR PEP AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE ALONG WITH JOHN OR RICHARD ESTEY FOR THEIR SUPPORT AND OUR MISSION TO PROVIDE IMPACTFUL SOLUTIONS FOR FACING THE MONUMENTAL YET ACHIEVABLE TASK OF URBAN URBAN RODENT POPULATION REDUCTION.  WE URGE YOU TO JOIN THE CO-SPONSORS OF TODAY'S PANEL IN SUPPORTING A PROACTIVE AND SUSTAINABLE APPROACH AS PART OF BOSTON'S ROAD AN ACTION PLAN MOVING FORWARD AND WISDOM GOODWORKS REMAINS READY TO ASSIST, HOWEVER WE CAN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH.  GOOD MORNING COUNCILOR PEPEN, PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE MY NAME IS SAM ANDERSON. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF LEGISLATIVE AND GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS FOR MASS AUDUBON WITH OVER 160,000 MEMBERS. MASS AUDUBON IS NEW ENGLAND'S LARGEST MEMBER BASED CONSERVATION ORGANIZATION MASS AUDUBON MEMBERS HAIL FROM ALL 351 CITIES AND TOWNS ACROSS THE STATE, INCLUDING SEVERAL HUNDRED INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES RESIDING IN BOSTON. OUR BOSTON NATURE CENTER IN MATTAPAN PROVIDES ACCESS TO 67 ACRES OF WOODLAND FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN ADDITION TO CAMPS ADULT PROGRAMS, NATURE BASED EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMING AND SCHOOLS AND A 300 PARK COMMUNITY GARDEN. WE'RE PROUD OF OUR PRESENCE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON AND I'M EXCITED TO BE HERE TODAY IN AN ADVOCACY CAPACITY TO TALK ABOUT OUR WORK TO REDUCE THE USE OF RODENTICIDES ACROSS THE STATE AS PART OF MASS AUDUBON'S COMMITMENT TO ADDRESSING THE BIODIVERSITY CRISIS THROUGH ORGANIZING AND MOBILIZING AT THE GRASSROOTS LEVEL WE'VE ESTABLISHED OUR RESCUE RAPTORS PROGRAM WHICH PROVIDES SUPPORT AND RESOURCES TO COMMUNITY GROUPS LOOKING TO REDUCE OUR USE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS THROUGH LANDOWNER EDUCATION AND STATE AND LOCAL ADVOCACY WHILE OUR FOCUS IS ON GETTING RID OF RAT POISONS I WOULD SAY FOR THE RECORD THEIR POPULATION MANAGEMENT TECHNIQUES LIKE THOSE AT WESTERN GOOD WORKS ARE CRUCIAL ELEMENT OF ANY POISON FREE INTEGRATED PEST MANAGEMENT STRATEGY.  PERHAPS UNSURPRISINGLY GIVEN OUR STATEWIDE REACH AND OUR MEMBERSHIP'S AFFINITY FOR BIRDS THE RESCUE RAPTORS PROGRAM HAS PROVEN EXTREMELY POPULAR IN JUST OVER A YEAR WE HAVE ESTABLISHED PARTNERSHIPS WITH OVER 50 LOCAL AND REGIONAL GROUPS COMMITTED TO REDUCING OUR USE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.  THE ENERGY AND PASSION PEOPLE HAVE FOR THIS ISSUE ACROSS THE STATE IS PALPABLE. OF COURSE PEOPLE WANT THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS FREE FROM RODENTS AND PESTS BUT THE SIGHT OF THE UBIQUITOUS POISON BLACK BOXES AND THE THOUGHT THAT THE RED TAILED HAWK CIRCLING OVERHEAD IS MORE THAN LIKELY MORTALLY ILL CAUSES RESIDENTS TO CONSIDER THE ALTERNATIVES AND DRIVE THEM TO ACTION.  THE LOGIC OF THE SITUATION RESONATES IT DRIVES PEOPLE CRAZY TO WALK DOWN THE SIDEWALK IN BOSTON AND SEE PILES OF TRASH NEXT TO BOXES OF RAT POISON. THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO MANAGE RODENTS THAN TO USE POISON AS A FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AND THE CITY OF BOSTON HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A REAL IMPACT BEYOND JUST LEADING BY EXAMPLE.  WE OFTEN ADVISE OUR LOCAL ADVOCATES TO START THEIR ORGANIZED ADVOCACY BY ENGAGING THE LARGE LANDOWNERS IN THEIR HOMETOWNS CONVINCING A STRIP MALL OR A LARGE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT TO MOVE AWAY FROM RAT POISON CAN DECREASE THE RISK TO WILDLIFE IN ONE BIG SWING IN MANY CASES THE LARGEST LANDOWNER IS THE CITY OR THE TOWN ITSELF. AND IN BOSTON THAT IS NO DIFFERENT. THE CITY ITSELF ON SOME 13% OF THE LAND AND TAKING POISONS OUT OF OUR PARKS, OUR SCHOOLS, OUR PUBLIC HOUSING AND OUR ROADWAYS AND SIDEWALKS MAKE SENSE ECOLOGICALLY AND IT'S GOOD PUBLIC HEALTH POLICY.  MY ORNITHOLOGIST TELLS ME THAT WE'RE SYSTEMATICALLY KILLING THE BEST AVAILABLE AND CHEAPEST DEFENSE AGAINST RODENTS THAT WE'VE GOT A COUNCILOR BREADON MENTIONED THE COYOTES. I GET VERY NERVOUS. THINK ABOUT COYOTES RUNNING AROUND EATING POISONED RATS AND THEY ALSO TELL ME IMPORTANTLY THAT RODENT BIRTH CONTROL HAS NO SECONDARY EFFECTS ON PREDATOR SPECIES WHICH IS A QUESTION WE GET ASKED A LOT FROM OUR MEMBERS AND OUR PARTNER ADVOCACY GROUPS.  WITH THAT I'D BE HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS NOW OR SERVE AS A RESOURCE IN THE FUTURE AS YOU CONTINUE YOUR HARD WORK ON THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC.  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME . THANK YOU VERY GOOD MORNING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE.  IT IS ALL FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE. I'M ZACH MERTZ BY THE WAY, THE CEO OF THE NEW ENGLAND WILDLIFE CENTERS. WE ARE A LOCAL NONPROFIT.  WE RUN TWO WILDLIFE HOSPITALS IN MASSACHUSETTS, ONE IN THE CAPE AND ONE IN WEYMOUTH THAT SERVES THE CITY OF BOSTON EVERY DAY WE WORK WITH BOSTON PARKS DEPARTMENT VERY CLOSELY AND IN THIS ROLE WE HAVE REALLY AN UP FRONT SEAT TO THE INNER WORKINGS AND MACHINATIONS OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH WILDLIFE POPULATIONS IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. AND THE REASON I'M EXCITED TODAY IS IT'S TIME THIS ISSUE GOT MORE ATTENTION. IT'S SOMETHING IN THE REHAB WORLD WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH ON AND OFF FOR 15, 20 YEARS. IT'S A PERNICIOUS PROBLEM. IT'S A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE PROBLEM TO SEE AN ANIMAL UP CLOSE THAT'S BEEN POISONED BY SECOND GENERATION ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES.  EVEN TODAY WITH MORE AWARENESS WE STILL SEE PROBABLY 50 TO 100 CASES PER YEAR. SOME OF THOSE ANIMALS DO COME TO US FROM DOWNTOWN ESPECIALLY IN DENSELY POPULATED AREAS WHERE PEOPLE ARE DOING RODENT PROOFING AND ESPECIALLY THIS TIME OF YEAR WHEN PEOPLE ARE GETTING READY FOR THE WINTER AND SO WHEN WE GET AN ANIMAL IN THAT HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH SCARS JUST FOR EASE OF GETTING IT OUT OF MY MOUTH THIS MORNING WE CAN SEE A WHOLE HOST OF SYMPTOMS. IT CAN BE SOMETHING CHRONIC WHERE THE ANIMAL IS REALLY JUST NOT FUNCTIONING MEANING IT'S NOT FEELING WELL AND IT'S REALLY NOT ABLE TO FILL ITS NICHE OR HUNT EFFECTIVELY ALL THE WAY UP TO ACUTE EXPOSURE WHERE THIS ANIMAL CAN BE QUITE HONESTLY COMATOSE, BLEEDING OUT . I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO GRAPHIC BUT WE HAD A PATIENT A FEW WEEKS AGO CAME IN BLEEDING OUT OF EVERY ORIFICE JUST SIMPLY ON THE VERGE OF DEATH AND EVEN WITH EMERGENCY BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS WE WEREN'T ABLE FOR THAT ANIMAL AROUND AND SO AS A REHABILITATION AS A VETERINARY FACILITY, OUR CONCERN IS THE LENGTH OF THE TIME WE'VE BEEN SEEING THIS PROBLEM AND ALSO THE RESOURCES THAT IT TAKES TO TURN ONE OF THESE ANIMALS AROUND THE AVERAGE TIME IN OUR HOSPITAL.  I'LL TAKE A GREAT FOR NOW ALL WE GOT FROM THE ARBORETUM I THINK LAST YEAR IT TOOK ABOUT 90 DAYS FOR US TO GET THE POISON IN THAT BIRD SYSTEM TO THE POINT WHERE IT WAS NO LONGER DETECTABLE MEANING THAT BIRD'S BLOOD WAS CLOTTING IN AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME AND THAT'S ABOUT THE AVERAGE WHICH I WOULD SAY ABOUT 90 DAYS IS IS THE STANDARD BUT IT HAS TAKEN US UP TO 365 DAYS IN SOME CASES WE HAD A FAMILY OF GREAT HORNED OWLS AND I'LL SHARE THIS EXAMPLE QUICKLY THEY LIVED IN A TREE VERY NORMAL GREAT HORNED DOWN NEST.  ONE OF THE PARENTS GOT A HOLD OF A SINGLE POISON RODENT THAT HAD BEEN EXPOSED TO ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES. IT BROUGHT THAT MEAL BACK TO THE NEST BOTH SIBLINGS IN THE NEST THE FATHER THE MOTHER MADE A MEAL OF THIS RAT AND THREE OUT OF THE FOUR PERISHED. AND SO WE TOOK THIS LAST REMAINING BABY GRAVE HORNED OUT AND GREW UP IN A BUCKET TRUCK TO RETRIEVE IT, BROUGHT IT IN, GAVE IT A BLOOD TRANSFUSION. WE NECROPSY THE REST OF THE FAMILY AND DEFINITIVELY THEY HAD DIED FROM SCARS.  IT TOOK US A FULL 365 DAYS TO CARE FOR THIS ANIMAL. WE HAD TO DO DAILY VET CHECKS. WE DID BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, VITAMIN K TREATMENTS AND IN THAT TIME THAT SINGLE BABY OURS IS A YOUNG ADULT A 2000 RATS AND MICE IN OUR CARE.  SO THAT CAN SHOW YOU THE POTENTIAL FOR NATURAL RODENT CONTROL THAT THESE ANIMALS CAN EXERT. THE RED TAILED HAWKS, THE OWLS IT IS INCREDIBLE. NATURE IS EXTREMELY EFFICIENT AND SO AS WE LOOK TO CONTROL OUR RODENT POPULATION HERE IN THE CITY, WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT OUR NATURAL ASSETS AS WELL AS JUST THESE CHEMICALS SHORT TERM SOLUTIONS AND THE RODENT BIRTH CONTROL I THINK IS AN INCREDIBLY POWERFUL TOOL IN THAT TOOLBOX MEANING IT MAY NOT BE THE MOST IMMEDIATE SOLUTION BUT WINNING USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH OTHER IPM STRATEGIES IT'S GOING TO HAVE A LASTING EFFECT AND IT'S GOING TO HAVE AN EFFECT THAT IS NOT ESSENTIALLY KNEECAPPING NATURE'S ABILITY TO HANDLE THIS. SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY IT'S FROM A REHAB STANDPOINT A LOT OF RESOURCES GOES INTO EVERY ANIMAL. IT'S A BURDEN TO THOSE WHO VOLUNTEER TO CARE FOR THE WILDLIFE IN THE STATE AND WE'RE VERY EXCITED TOO AT THE PROSPECT OF THIS PASSING.  GOOD MORNING. THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT MY TESTIMONY. MY NAME IS DR. MARTHA SMITH BLACKMORE.  I'M A VETERINARIAN. I PROVIDE VETERINARY CARE AT THE CITY OF BOSTON ANIMAL CARE AND CONTROL FACILITY IN ROSLINDALE.  I'M ALSO A FORMER 15 YEAR RESIDENT OF EAST SIXTH STREET AND A PROPERTY OWNER THERE IN SOUTH BOSTON.  RACHEL CARSON ONCE SAID IN NATURE NOTHING EXISTS ALONE. AND SHE OBSERVED THAT WE AS HUMAN ANIMALS WHEN WE WAGE WAR AGAINST NATURE, WE WAGE WAR AGAINST OURSELVES. THIS IS PARTICULARLY TRUE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE POISONS WE SET OUT TO KILL RATS. AS A SHELTER VETERINARIAN PROVIDING SERVICES FOR THE CITY, I REGULARLY SEE BIRDS OF PREY PARTICULARLY RED TAILED HAWKS BROUGHT IN BY BOSTON'S DEDICATED ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS SICK AND DYING.  FREQUENTLY THESE GORGEOUS BIRDS ARE WEAK AND ANEMIC AND STRUGGLING TO BREATHE THROUGH OPEN BEAKS. MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THE RAPTORS TOO FAR GONE IN. MY ONLY OPTION IS TO EUTHANIZE THEM TO BRING THEIR STRUGGLE AND SUFFERING TO AN END.  VETERINARIANS AND OTHER ANIMAL CAREGIVERS STRUGGLE WITH A HEAVY BURDEN. WE ENTER OUR FIELD AS A RESPONSE TO A CALLING WE GIVE OF OURSELVES TO CARE FOR ANIMALS BECAUSE WE LOVE THEM ONLY TO DISCOVER THAT A GREAT DEAL OF OUR WORK IS FIGHTING AGAINST THE HARMS THAT PEOPLE CAN CAUSE ANIMALS.  OUR PROFESSION OF COMPASSION TURNS INTO A WEARY TASK OF KILLING EVERY SHELTER AGENT IN THAT SHELTER IN ROSLINDALE LOVES THEIR WORK AND IS INCREDIBLY DEDICATED.  THEY TOO ARE HEARTBROKEN BY THE NUMBERS OF BIRDS THAT COME INTO THE SHELTER IN DISTRESS. THIS IS A BURDEN THAT IS BORNE BY THE EMPLOYEES OF THE CITY OF BOSTON IN PART CAUSED BY THE POISONS THAT ARE LAID DOWN BY THE CITY OF BOSTON. I MENTIONED NUMBERS.  I ASKED THE DIRECTOR OF ANIMAL CARE AND CONTROL ALEXIS BRZEZINSKI TO PULL THE NUMBERS FOR BIRDS OF PREY BROUGHT IN BY ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS SINCE 2019 199 HAWKS, FALCONS AND OWLS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT INTO THE CITY OF BOSTON SHELTER FOR CARE.  ONLY 20% ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO UNDERGO TRANSFER TO THE NEW ENGLAND WILDLIFE CENTER FOR POTENTIAL LIFESAVING CARE.  SOME OF COURSE ARE INJURED, HIT BY CARS OR ELECTROCUTED BY POWER LINES. BUT SOME OF THE INJURED BIRDS GET INJURED BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO SICK TO SEEK TOO WEAK FROM PREVIOUS ANTI-COAL ARGUMENT RODENTICIDE EXPOSURE USED TO KILL RATS.  AS AN ASIDE, NOT ONLY IS THE CITY PUTTING OUT THIS AWFUL POISON THAT KILLS RATS AND IS SUFFERING WAY IN THIS POISON WORKS ITS WAY THROUGH THE FOOD CHAIN TO KILL RAPTORS WHO IRONICALLY PROVIDE US WITH GREAT RAT CONTROL SERVICES. THE CITY ALSO USES INHUMANE GLUE TRAPS WHICH CAUSES ANOTHER HORRIFYING TYPE OF SUFFERING. PERHAPS WE CAN DO AWAY WITH THOSE AS WELL IF WE TURN TO BIRTH CONTROL. POPULATION MUST BE CONTROLLED. THERE ARE A NUISANCE THAT IMPACTS THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE CITY. THEY ALSO POSE A PUBLIC HEALTH RISK. ONE DISEASE IN PARTICULAR LEPTOSPIROSIS CAUSES LIVER AND KIDNEY FAILURE. IT CAN BE FATAL. DOGS ESPECIALLY EXPOSED TO RAT URINE WHICH IS HOW LEPTOSPIROSIS IS TRANSMITTED CAN ALSO GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE THEY COME INTO CONTACT WITH. TUFTS CUMMINGS SCHOOL OF VETERINARY MEDICINE JUST RECENTLY ISSUED A WARNING THAT LEPTIN LEVELS ARE QUITE HIGH RIGHT NOW.  BUT HEREIN LIES THE RUB. POISONED RATS ARE IMMUNE SUPPRESSED AND MORE LIKELY TO SPREAD LEFTOVER RATS ON BIRTH CONTROL OR HEALTHY BUT NOT REPRODUCING FEWER RATS, LESS LIBIDO AND IMPORTANTLY BIRDS OF PREY WON'T BE EXPOSED TO THE POISON THAT IS KILLING THEM AND CAUSING EMOTIONAL HARM TO CITY EMPLOYEES. I'LL CLOSE WITH ONE MORE RACHEL CARSON QUOTE THE HUMAN RACE IS CHALLENGED MORE THAN EVER BEFORE TO DEMONSTRATE OUR MASTERY NOT OVER NATURE BUT OF OURSELVES. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.  GOOD MORNING, BOSTON CITY COUNCILORS. MY NAME IS LEXI NEALON. I'M A THIRD YEAR STUDENT AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL AND A FORMER CLINICIAN WITH THE HARVARD LAW SCHOOL ANIMAL LAW AND POLICY CLINIC APC AND ITS CLIENTS WELCOME THE COUNCIL'S INTEREST IN IMPLEMENTING HUMANE AND COMMUNITY SAFE ALTERNATIVES TO RODENTICIDE BITES INCLUDING THE USE OF CONTRACEPTIVES TO CONTROL RODENT POPULATIONS.  WE EMPHASIZE, HOWEVER, THAT THE CITY'S IMPLEMENTATION OF HUMANE ALTERNATIVES MUST BE COUPLED WITH A PHASING OUT OF THE USE OF RODENTICIDES ESPECIALLY ANTI-COAGULANT RODENTICIDES TO REAP THE FULL ENVIRONMENTAL AND PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFITS OF ANY SUCH PROGRAM. ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES ARE HIGHLY TOXIC CHEMICALS THAT NOT ONLY TARGET RODENTS BUT ALSO POSE A SERIOUS THREAT TO NON-TARGET SPECIES INCLUDING PETS, WILDLIFE AND EVEN HUMANS. THROUGH PRIMARY AND SECONDARY POISONING THERE ARE NUMEROUS DOCUMENTED CASES IN MASSACHUSETTS OF LOCAL WILDLIFE INCLUDING BALD EAGLES AND OTHER SPECIES PROTECTED BY STATE AND FEDERAL LAW. FALLING VICTIM TO ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDE POISONING AFTER CONSUMING POISONED RODENTS BECAUSE THESE CHEMICALS WORK SLOWLY THE DELAY BETWEEN RODENTS INGESTION AND THEIR ONSET OF SYMPTOMS INCREASES THE RISK OF SECONDARY POISONING TO PREDATORS SUCH AS RAPTORS, FOXES AND COYOTES.  ADDITIONALLY, ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES INJURE COMPANION ANIMALS SUCH AS DOGS AND CATS WHO OFTEN REQUIRE COSTLY VETERINARY CARE TO TREAT THEIR POISONING. THESE CHEMICALS ARE ALSO TOXIC TO HUMANS. MANY PEOPLE PARTICULARLY CHILDREN ARE EXPOSED TO ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES EVERY YEAR.  IN MASSACHUSETTS ALONE THERE WERE ALMOST 200 CASES OF HUMAN ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDE POISONING BETWEEN THE YEARS OF 2021 AND 2023. MANY OF THEM OCCURRING AMONG CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF SIX.  CONTINUED USE OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES THUS INCREASES THE RISK OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES TO HUMAN HEALTH ESPECIALLY AMONG THOSE MOST VULNERABLE IN SOCIETY.  THE PHASING OUT OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT MASSACHUSETTS RESIDENTS, COMPANION ANIMALS AND WILDLIFE . THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HAS RECOGNIZED THESE DANGERS AND PROHIBITED THE USE OF ALL ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES WITHIN THE STATE WITH LIMITED EXCEPTIONS SETTING A PRECEDENT FOR CITIES LIKE BOSTON TO FOLLOW SUIT IN PROTECTING BOTH WILDLIFE AND PUBLIC HEALTH.  THE U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY HAS PROPOSED ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON THE USE OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES UNDER THE FEDERAL INSECTICIDE, FUNGICIDE AND RODENTICIDE ACT AS WELL AS THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT. FURTHERMORE, LPC BELIEVES THAT THE REGISTRATION AND USE OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES VIOLATES OUR STATE STANDARDS UNDER THE MASSACHUSETTS PESTICIDE CONTROL ACT OR PC. WHILE THE MASSACHUSETTS DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURAL RESOURCES CONSIDERS AOC'S PETITION TO SUSPEND STATE REGISTRATION OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES, BOSTON HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SET A POSITIVE EXAMPLE FOR OUR STATE BY PHASING OUT ANTI-COAGULANT RODENTICIDES AND INSTEAD ADOPTING HUMANE ALTERNATIVES TO MANAGE RODENT POPULATIONS.  AS DETAILED IN THE ENCLOSED PETITION IS A OPCW'S POSITION THAT ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES DO NOT MEET THE STANDARD FOR REGISTRATION BECAUSE THEY GENERALLY CAUSE UNREASONABLE ADVERSE EFFECTS TO THE ENVIRONMENT.  UNDER THE SPCA UNREASONABLE ADVERSE EFFECTS TO THE ENVIRONMENT MEANS AN UNREASONABLE RISK TO MAN OR THE ENVIRONMENT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL COSTS AND BENEFIT BENEFITS OF THE USE OF ANY PESTICIDE.  THE ENVIRONMENT INCLUDES WATER, AIR, LAND AND ALL PLANTS AND MAN AND OTHER LIVING ANIMALS THEREIN AND THE INTERRELATIONSHIPS WHICH EXIST AMONG THESE.  THE RISKS POSED BY A PESTICIDE PRODUCT TO HUMAN HEALTH TO THE ENVIRONMENT ARE UNREASONABLE. WHERE THEY ARE NOT OUTWEIGHED BY THE PESTICIDE PESTICIDES BENEFITS ALLOWING ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES TO CONTINUE TO KILL OUR WILDLIFE ESPECIALLY PROTECTED SPECIES IS INHERENT UNREASONABLE BECAUSE IT UNDERMINES LONG STANDING CONSERVATION EFFORTS,  JEOPARDIZES ECOSYSTEM HEALTH AND DEPRIVES SOCIETY OF THE CULTURAL AND ECONOMIC BENEFITS THOSE SPECIES PROVIDE.  IN PARTICULAR THE HARM INFLICTED BY ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES ON BALD EAGLES AND OTHER RAPTORS IS AN UNREASONABLE ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE ENVIRONMENT. RAPTORS PLAY A VITAL ROLE IN MAINTAINING HEALTHY ECOSYSTEMS BY REGULATING PREY POPULATIONS ,BY INDISCRIMINATELY KILLING EAGLES AND OTHER RAPTORS A.K.A ARGUMENT RODENTICIDES INTERFERE WITH THE ECOSYSTEMS NATURAL ABILITY TO CONTROL RODENT POPULATIONS. AS DISCUSSED BY OTHER PANELISTS, ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES ALSO POSE SIGNIFICANT THREATS TO COMPANION ANIMALS AND THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL STATE AND NATIONWIDE DATA DOCUMENTING CASES OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDE POISONING IN HUMANS. EVEN IF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES WERE EFFECTIVELY MANAGING BOSTON'S RODENT POPULATION, THAT BENEFIT WOULD NOT OUTWEIGH THE SUBSTANTIAL NEGATIVE IMPACTS TO HUMANS, WILDLIFE AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS AND CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED IN LIGHT OF THE AVAILABILITY OF HUMANE ALTERNATIVES SUCH AS RODENT CONTRACEPTIVES.  APC BELIEVES THAT THE MPA'S BALANCING TEST WEIGHS IN FAVOR OF REPLACING ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES WITH THESE HUMANE ALTERNATIVES SUCH AS A CITYWIDE RODENT CONTRACEPTIVE PROGRAM.  WE RESPECTFULLY URGE THE COUNCIL TO PHASE OUT THE USE OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES IN BOSTON AND INSTEAD REALLOCATE RESOURCES TOWARD HUMANE PEST CONTROL ALTERNATIVES SUCH AS RODENT BIRTH CONTROL. BY TAKING THIS STEP, BOSTON WILL HELP LEAD THE CHARGE IN PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT SAFEGUARDING PUBLIC HEALTH AND ENSURING THE HUMANE TREATMENT OF ALL CREATURES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION THIS MORNING. THANK YOU.  AND WE HAVE ONE MORE THAT IS JOINING US VIRTUALLY.  DR. KIKO, CAN YOU HEAR US?  YES, CAN. PERFECT.  THE MIC IS YOURS. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS CAROL HOLMQUIST AND THE DIRECTOR OF ADVOCACY AT THE MSC. AND I'M HERE WITH DR. KIKO BRACHER WHO RUNS OUR EMERGENCY CARE UNIT. WE WORK AT THE MSC P.K. ANGELL ANIMAL MEDICAL CENTER. IN ADDITION TO SHELTERS, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OUR EVAS BECAUSE THE PROGRAMS WE RUN TO ANIMAL HOSPITALS ONE IN JAMAICA PLAIN AND ONE IN WALTHAM AND WE ARE HERE TO TESTIFY IN FAVOR.  LIKE THE OTHER PANELISTS OF PROMOTING RODENT BIRTH CONTROL AND MOVING AWAY FROM RODENTICIDES. I WANT TO THANK THE CITY COUNCIL FOR HAVING THIS HEARING AND ALSO FOR ALLOWING DR. BRECKER TO TESTIFY REMOTELY SO HE CAN CONTINUE SEEING HIS CASELOAD. WE SEE ABOUT 80,000 CLIENT VISITS AT OUR TWO HOSPITALS AND WE SEE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF POISONING SCARS AND OTHER POISONING OF THE RODENTS LIVES. AND DR. BRICKER IS GOING TO TESTIFY TO THE SUFFERING OF THE ANIMALS AND THE COST TO OWNERS WE'VE HEARD A LITTLE BIT SO FAR BUT JUST HOW DIFFICULT THIS CAN BE WHEN PETS GET INTO RODENTICIDES. THANK YOU AND GOOD MORNING AND THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TO THIS MEETING TODAY. WHEN DOGS ARE EXPOSED TO AN ENZYME AS WE SEE THEM USUALLY AFTER IT'S ONE OF ONE OR TWO SCENARIOS EITHER IT'S SIMPLE EXPOSURE PRIOR TO CLINICAL SIGNS OR ONCE THEY'RE SHOWING CLINICAL SIGNS AND SIGNS OF TOXICITY. IF IT'S JUST A MATTER OF EXPOSURE THEN WE CAN GO AHEAD AND TRY TO ELIMINATE THE TOXIN FROM THEIR SYSTEM USUALLY BY INDUCING VOMITING OR SOME OTHER MEASURES THAT CAN BE USED. BUT IF THEY'RE SHOWING TOXIC SIGNS THEN WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY THE TYPE OF TOXIN AND SEE IF THERE'S AN ANTIDOTE AND THEN GO ON DOWNSTREAM IN METHODS WHICH ARE AN UNPREDICTABLE AT BEST.  NEUROTOXINS LIKE ETHYLENE ARE OFTEN FATAL AND THERE'S NO ANTIDOTE FOR THAT ALTHOUGH SCARS DO HAVE A TREATMENT METHOD. IT'S KIND OF A QUESTION OF TIMING AND FINANCIAL INVESTMENT QUITE HONESTLY FROM THE OWNER BECAUSE THE TREATMENT CAN END UP BEING EXPENSIVE WITH SCARS LEAVING BEGINS USUALLY IN ABOUT 3 TO 7 DAYS AFTER EXPOSURE AFTER EATING A TOXIC TOXIC DOSE FROM THIS. AND SO IT REALLY IS A QUESTION OF TIMING AND A RACE AGAINST THE CLOCK TREATMENT INVOLVES GIVING VITAMIN K WHICH TAKES ABOUT 1224 HOURS TO HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT AS WELL AS FAIRLY AGGRESSIVE TRANSFUSIONS OF BLOOD AND PLASMA AND PLASMA THAT CAN SERVE TO GIVE THEM BACK EFFECTIVE CLOTTING FACTORS THAT CAN ALLOW THEM TO FORM A USEFUL CLOT.  THE COST OF CARE CAN OFTEN RUN INTO THE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EASILY BETWEEN THREE AND 7000 THOUSAND DOLLARS WITH THOSE BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS.  USUALLY HOSPITALIZATION THAT LASTS ON THE SHORT SIDE FROM 48 HOURS MAYBE UP TO FOUR DAYS OR SO. IF TREATMENT IS SUCCESSFUL AT OUR HOSPITAL WE SEE ABOUT 40 TO 50 CASES OF RODENTICIDE TOXICITY PER YEAR AND OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS WE'VE SEEN 180 CASES OF RODENTICIDE TOXICITY TOTAL BETWEEN OUR TWO HOSPITALS IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME 14 OF THOSE WERE CONFIRMED ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES WHICH REQUIRED BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS AND WE CAN CONFIRM TOXICITIES OF THAT SORT.  ONE CASE REPORT THAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU WAS THE CASE OF MURPHY WHO WAS A MIDDLE AGED DOG THAT WE SAW THROUGH OUR EMERGENCY ROOM IN 2021 AND HE CAME WITH THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS BODY BEING PARALYZED AND IT APPEARED LIKE IT WAS SOME SORT OF A STROKE LIKE EPISODE. SO WE WERE ABLE TO TAKE HIM TO AN MRI SCAN AND LOOK AT HIS BRAIN AND SPINAL CORD AND THERE SEEMED TO BE WHAT LOOKED LIKE EVIDENCE OF HEMORRHAGE IN THOSE AREAS WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING WE WOULD HAVE PREDICTED OR WOULD COMMONLY SEE. SO THEN THROUGH FURTHER TESTING WE IDENTIFIED THAT HE WAS NOT ABLE TO CLOT APPROPRIATELY AND THEN MADE THE LEAP TO SAYING THIS IS LIKELY AN ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDE TOXICITY. SO WE THEN DID GIVE HIM VITAMIN K AND TRANSFUSED WITH PLASMA AND BLOOD BUT STILL IT TAKES 1224 HOURS FOR THE BLEEDING PROBLEM TO RESOLVE AND AND STOP BLEEDING AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME WE'RE WAITING FOR HIM TO CLOT APPROPRIATELY. HE DID HAVE A CATACLYSMIC AND ULTIMATELY FATAL BLEED WITHIN HIS BRAIN AND HE DID PASS AWAY FROM THAT ISSUE DESPITE TRYING CPR AND TRYING TO RESUSCITATE HIM. AT NECROPSY WE IDENTIFIED TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES THAT HAD PRECIPITATED IN HIS LIVER WHICH WAS A KIND OF AN ODD FINDING AND FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT. HIS OWNERS OF COURSE WERE TERRIBLY DISTRAUGHT BY THIS AND HAD REALLY NO IDEA WHERE HIS EXPOSURE WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE THOSE ANTICOAGULANTS IN THEIR HOUSEHOLD. ULTIMATELY THE COST OF MURPHY'S TREATMENT ENDED UP BEING OVER $7,000 AND AGAIN HE DID NOT SURVIVE AT THAT TREATMENT EPISODE. SO THAT'S JUST A WAY OF DEMONSTRATING TO YOU THE TOLL THAT CAN BE EXERTED UPON VETERINARY PATIENTS DOGS AND POTENTIALLY CATS WHO MAY COME INTO INADVERTENT CONTACT WITH SCARS AND OTHER ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES. THANKS. THANK YOU. DR..  IT'S JUST AGAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL THE PANELISTS FOR BEING HERE AND GIVING YOUR TESTIMONIES AND YOUR VALUE INPUT.  BUT TODAY RIGHT NOW I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MY COLLEAGUES TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS. I'M GOING TO START WITH 4 MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS BUT OBVIOUSLY IF WE HAVE MORE QUESTIONS WE COULD DO ANOTHER ROUND. WE'LL START WITH ONE OF THE CO-SPONSORS COUNCIL PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. AND THANK YOU AGAIN TO ALL OF THE PANELISTS FOR THE INCREDIBLE WORK THAT YOU ALL ARE DOING. THANK YOU FOR ELEVATING AND FOR TEACHING ME SOME NEW THINGS DURING YOUR PRESENTATION ON A SHOUT OUT DR. SMITH BLACK FOR BLACK MORE FOR ELEVATING THE WORK OF OUR ANIMAL CONTROL DEPARTMENT LED BY ALEX ALEXIS BRZEZINSKI WHO WON THE SHATTUCK AWARD FOR THE CITY LAST YEAR LAST YEAR.  THEY DO INCREDIBLE WORK AND DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO THE WORK THAT THEY DO AND SO JUST WHY NOT LIFT UP THAT ENTIRE DEPARTMENT?  I HAVE A QUESTION FOR WHOEVER CAN ANSWER IT.  A LOT OF IT WHEN I WHEN I READ THE THE BRIEF FROM THE AGELESS ANIMAL LAW AND POLICY CLINIC AND WHEN I JUST LISTEN TO THE GOOD DOCTOR. THE FOCUS SEEMS TO BE IN ON ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES OTHER RODENTICIDES WHERE WHERE LIKE THE ONES THE CHEMICAL BASED OR RODENTICIDE OR OTHER FORMS OF RODENTICIDE. ARE WE OKAY WITH THOSE.  ARE THEY LESS TOXIC? I GUESS THEY'RE LESS TOXIC TO A LARGER WILDLIFE TO HUMANS?  I'M HAPPY TO ADDRESS THIS ONE. THE FOCUS ON ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES IN PETITION THAT THE LPC PUT OUT WAS IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT IN MASSACHUSETTS OVER 96% OF THE RODENTICIDES USED IN THE STATE ARE ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES. SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY THAT IMPACT OUR FOCUS IS ON F CARS AND CARS. OKAY. THANK YOU.  I DON'T KNOW IF IT YET. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD THAT I ENDORSE THE 96% AND ALSO THE 100% OF RAPTORS THAT ARE TESTED SHOW POSITIVE BUT ALSO IF WE ERADICATE THE ANTI-COAGULANTS THE OTHER CHEMICAL POISON THAT COULD COME IN ARE ALSO DANGEROUS TO THE ENTIRE FOOD CHAIN AND ALSO POSE PROBLEMS. SO NON POISON PATHWAYS ARE THE WAY TO GO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.  AND THEN I WANT TO HEAR THE REST OF MY QUESTIONS TOWARDS YOU GOING AND THE WORK THAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING. I SAW A SPOT ON SOME GENERAL ABOUT PEOPLE OF MALDEN OR MEDFORD WANTING RODENTICIDES, WANTING A RAT BIRTH CONTROL AND IN YOU WANT TO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE GOOD WORK THAT YOU DO. WHEN WE STARTED I THINK IT WAS LAST YEAR MY OFFICE A NUMBER OF RAT PROJECTS IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS ROXBURY JAMAICA PLAIN AND WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE DATA COLLECTION BEHIND THE RAT BIRTH CONTROL PILOT THAT'S HAPPENING OVER ON CRANSTON STREET IN JAMAICA PLAIN. IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT DATA COLLECTION LOOKS LIKE TO TO MONITOR SUCCESS OR TO DETERMINE WHAT SUCCESS LOOKS LIKE, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. ABSOLUTELY. WE DO THINK THAT ONE OF THE MAIN TOOLS MISSING IN RODENT CONTROL AT A CITY LEVEL SO FAR HAS BEEN IT HAS BEEN MONITORING . IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT YOU MONITOR THE USE OF ANY MEASURE TAKEN. TO THAT END, WISDOM GOOD WORKS HAS DEVELOPED A PROPRIETY FREE DATA PORTAL THAT ALLOWS ANY USER TO TO MAKE A MEASUREMENT OF CONSUMPTION TO RECORD IT IN IMMEDIATELY THAT GOES TO A DATABASE THAT IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE SHARED WITH ANY OF THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT NEED TO INFORMATION IN REAL TIME. WHAT THAT ALLOWS IS MY BOSSES, THE SCIENTISTS TO GIVE ACTUAL DIRECTION INPUT AND AND HELP DIRECT THE DESIGN OF THOSE PROGRAMS USING THE DATA PORTAL AND SERVICING A FEEDING STATION TAKES LESS THAN A MINUTE. IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BECOME VERY APPARENT TO US THAT TIME SPENT AT SERVICE IS GOING TO BE A BIG VALUE.  AND TO THAT END THE DATA MONITORING PORTAL ALLOWS US TO REDUCE TIME. THANK YOU. AND IS IT DATA MONITORING?  IS THAT IT'S ONLY MONITORING CONSUMPTION?  THAT'S WHERE WE STORE THE MEASUREMENTS OF OUR CONSUMPTION. IT ALSO TAKES INTO EFFECT LOCATION. IT GEO LOCATES EACH INPUT MADE AND THAT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION TIME DATE WHETHER PATTERNS MOON PHASES IF NEED BE. BUT REALISTICALLY WHAT IT ALLOWS IS A 360 PICTURE OR SNAPSHOT OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THAT LOCATION IN REAL TIME AND CAN WE MEASURE IN FERTILITY LIKE HAS IT ACTUALLY LED TO LIKE INFERTILITY? YOU CAN'T MEASURE INFERTILITY THROUGH CONSUMPTION ALONE BUT OUR MODEL USES CORROBORATED CAMERA TRAPPING AS WELL WHEN YOU CAN MEASURE RODENT POPULATION AT LESS THAN 40% JUVENILE WHAT'S INDICATED AS A CRASHING AND UNSUSTAINABLE GROWTH IN THAT POPULATION. OKAY. SO JUST ENOUGH DATA TO SHOW SOME SORT OF MEASURE ABILITY OF SOME SUCCESS.  YES. ALTHOUGH NOT MEASURING CAMERA TRAPPING CORROBORATES THAT VIA VIDEO LOCATION.  THANK YOU. I'LL RESERVE MY QUESTIONS FOR NEXT ROUND. THANK YOU MR , CHAIR. THANK YOU, MADAM PRESIDENT.  OKAY. AT THIS TIME WE'RE GOING TO GO BY ORDER OF ARRIVAL AND THAT STARTS WITH COUNCILOR MURPHY. THANK YOU, JEFF. THANK YOU TO THIS FIRST PANEL FOR YOUR SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE AND SIMILAR MY MY CURRENT FAMILY DOG IS MURPHY BUT MY DOG WINSTON DID DIE FROM CONSUMING POISONOUS BLUE PELLETS. SO DO KNOW FIRSTHAND WHEN YOU LOSE A FAMILY PET HOW DEVASTATING THAT IS. BUT I DID WANT TO TALK ABOUT AND SOME OF THESE I KNOW WILL COME UP WITH THE CITY PANEL ALSO BUT THINKING ABOUT OBVIOUSLY THE COST, THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS YOU KNOW, WHAT CHALLENGES ARE THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RATS ACTUALLY EAT IT AND WHEN TO GONE ON RAT WALKS OR JUST KNOW FROM MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD THAT YOU KNOW, RATS ARE SMART, THEY'LL FIND OTHER FOOD AND THERE'S MORE ENOUGH FOOD IN THE CITY AND HAVE SEEN THEM YOU KNOW, EAT THROUGH, YOU KNOW, EXPENSIVE BARRELS THAT ARE STORED PROPERLY. SO THE WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT TRASH PICK UP AND ALL OF THOSE OTHER LIKE THAT WILL PROBLEM THAT'S NEVER GOING TO GO AWAY. SO HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT THIS INVESTMENT IS GOING TO THEN OVERALL BE THE BEST SOLUTION FOR US GOING FORWARD AND HOW EFFECTIVE WILL IT BE?  I DON'T MIND TAKING THAT ONE AS WELL WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WORKING WITH THE ANIMAL YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT YOU USE IS PREFERENTIAL TO THOSE READILY AVAILABLE FOOD SOURCES RIGHT?  GOOD BITES ARE MADE OUT OF FOOD GRADE HUMAN FOOD GRADE INGREDIENTS THAT MIMIC THE READILY AVAILABLE TRASH SOURCES THEY HAVE. IT HAS PROTEIN, IT HAS CARBOHYDRATE, HAS FAT AS PEANUT BUTTER FOR ATTRACTIVENESS. AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN DEMONSTRATED IS THAT WHEN PLACED SIDE BY SIDE WITH CONTAINERIZED GARBAGE THE RAT WILL PREFER THE EASIER MEAL THEY WANT SOMETHING AT THEIR LEVEL ON GROUND LEVEL. WHAT I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND UP ON CRANSTON AND SHERIDAN STREET IS THAT GARBAGE CANS WERE REPLACED WHEN THEY HAD BEEN COMPROMISED BEFORE WE STARTED HAVE NOT SEEN THE DECLINE HAVE HAVE LASTED THE DURATION OF MY STUDY AND THE RATS ARE PREFERRING IT TO THE TRASH DOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO TOUCH ON THAT?  YEAH OKAY AND HOW LIKE HOW MUCH WOULD YOU THINK THOUGH I MEAN THIS IS A SMALL STUDY WHICH I'M GLAD WE'RE DOING IT BUT TO ACTUALLY COVER THE WHOLE CITY IN EVERY SINGLE HOUSEHOLD NEXT TO YOU ON THEIR BARREL STORAGE ACCOUNT NEAR ALL OF OUR RESTAURANT AND OUR DUMPSTERS LIKE HOW MUCH AND WHAT'S THE TARGET THAT YOU WOULD THINK TO MAKE THIS EFFECTIVE CITYWIDE MY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT YOU LOOK TO WHAT A RODENTS FEEDING RANGE WOULD BE WHEN DECIDING HOW CLOSELY TO DEPLOY FEEDING STATIONS.  OBVIOUSLY WHERE WE'VE BEEN WORKING UP IN CRANSTON WE HAVE USED AN ABSOLUTE SATURATED AMOUNT JUST BECAUSE WE'RE LEARNING WHAT THE CITY OF BOSTON RATS NEED AND WHAT THEY CAN CONSUME. WE'RE NOT ADVOCATING THAT AS HEAVY OF AN APPLICATION AS WE'VE USED. THERE IS NECESSARILY BE THE WAY TO GO WHEN YOU'RE DESIGNING A CITYWIDE OR EVEN A BIGGER CITY BLUEPRINT WE WOULD WORK ABSOLUTELY HAND IN STEP IN STEP WITH CITY SERVICES, WITH CITY COUNCIL TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S IT'S AN APPLICATION THAT IS MANAGEABLE AND COST EFFECTIVE. I THANK YOU THANK YOU COUNCILOR COUNCILOR CLARA ZAPATA THANK YOU CHAIR. I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION AND I BELIEVE THAT IS FOR YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH AND JUST THANK YOU ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR EXPERTISE. I REALLY DID LEARN A LOT THROUGH YOUR TESTIMONY SO JUST GRATITUDE YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS A PARTNERSHIP THERE'S ALWAYS OPPORTUNITY TO DO BETTER. YOU HAD MENTIONED IN YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU ARE EXCITED ABOUT THE BOSTON RODENT ACTION PLAN BUT HAD MENTIONED THAT YOU WISHED THAT THE CITY COULD BE DOING MORE. COULD YOU ELABORATE MORE ON THAT AND EXPAND ON THAT JUST SO WE KNOW MOVING FORWARD WHEN WE'RE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR PARTNERS IN THE ADMINISTRATION WHAT THAT EXACTLY MEANS?  YEAH, I THINK THAT EVEN BY COMMISSIONING THE ACTION PLAN YOU GUYS HAVE TAKEN A REALLY IMPORTANT STEP IN ADDRESSING THE SITUATION AND THE PROBLEM AT HAND. I THINK IT WAS INCREDIBLY EDUCATIONAL FOR PEOPLE THAT MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE KNOW ABOUT WHAT A CITY DOES TO COMBAT ITS RODENT PROBLEM, WHAT I SAW THOUGH IS JUST I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S NOT IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH BECAUSE IT RECOMMENDS CONTAINERIZATION WHICH IS AN IMPORTANT STEP AND PART OF AN IPAD PROTOCOL BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH. RATS ARE ABLE TO CHEW THROUGH ANY SURFACE UP TO THE STRENGTH OF STEEL UNLESS YOU'RE CONTAINER RISING ALL TRASH IN STEEL CONTAINERS RATS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO COMPROMISE THAT. SO I THINK THAT IF YOU WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM AND PROVIDE WHAT THEY'RE SEEKING WHICH IS NUTRITION, WHICH IS SUSTENANCE BUT YOU DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS BENEFICIAL TO THIS TO THE CITY, TO THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE, I THINK THAT IT PROVIDES A MORE COMPREHENSIVE SOLUTION. AND WHAT IS MISSING FROM THAT RODENT ACTION PLAN IS ANY STEP TO TO APPLY THAT ON A WIDER LEVEL OR ON A CITY LEVEL AT ALL . OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT'S IT. TRIP THANK YOU,  COUNCILOR FITZGERALD THANK YOU, CHAIR JUST THREE QUICK QUESTIONS. AS A FATHER OF THREE, FAR BE IT FOR ME TO BE THE LEADING EXPERT ON BIRTH CONTROL. BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS TYPICALLY HAS TO BE TAKEN AT THE SAME TIME EVERY DAY. IS THAT CORRECT? I KNOW AN INHUMAN RIGHT OR AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT'S ENCOURAGED IS THAT THE SAME IN THIS? IS THERE LIKE CERTAIN TIMING THAT HAS TO IT HAS TO BE HAD AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THE RATS ARE HAVING IT IN THAT TIME FRAME THAT MAKES IT WORK? THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK ANY ANY CHANCE TO FURTHER UNDERSTAND CONTRACEPTION BY ALL PEOPLE IS IMPORTANT AND YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE HUMAN YOU HAVE THE YOU'RE SUGGESTED TO TAKE IT AT THE SAME TIME EVERY DAY THE INTERVAL THAT WE RECOMMEND FOR RODENTS IS JUST THAT IT'S READILY AVAILABLE ON THEIR FEEDING SCHEDULE. THERE'S ENOUGH OF THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT TO REMAIN CONTRACEPTIVE AS LONG AS THEY HAVE REGULAR ACCESS THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THEIR LIFE LIKE A CONTRACEPTIVE A HUMAN WOULD TAKE. IT CAN BE REVERSIBLE IF A FEEDING CEASES AND THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT STERILIZING AN ENTIRE SPECIES.  YOU GET INTO A WHOLE OTHER REALM OF PROBLEMS BUT YOU DO NEED TO MAKE IT CONTINUOUSLY AVAILABLE. GREAT. THANK YOU. AND THAT ACTUALLY LEADS INTO MY NEXT QUESTION WHICH WAS MORE ABOUT IT SAY THIS WAS SUCCESSFUL. IS THERE ANYTHING IS THERE ANY SORT OF THING LIKE A A RAT FAMINE OR SHORTAGE THAT WE WOULD HAVE AND WHAT EFFECT LIKE IF THIS WAS 100% EFFECTIVE IN RATS WERE DONE, WHAT IS THAT EFFECT ON THE ECOSYSTEM OR A DRAMATIC DROP IN YEAH IN BOSTON WHERE TO DEMONSTRATE A RAT FAMINE YOU WOULD HAVE EVERY CITY KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR ASKING HOW IT WOULD THE ECOSYSTEM LIKE I MEAN WHAT ARE THE OWLS EATING WHAT LIKE HOW WE KEEPING WHAT THEY'RE GOING FOR IS NOT TOTAL ERADICATION WE'RE GOING FOR BALANCE WHEN AN ECOSYSTEM IS IN BALANCE AND THE FOOD IS AVAILABLE FOR THE HEART YOU SEE RETURN OF SPECIES THAT ARE OTHERWISE DISAPPEARING JUST ON CRANSTON THROUGH MY CAMERA TRAPS I'VE SEEN BIRDS OF PREY RETURNING. I'VE SEEN COYOTES, I'VE SEEN FOXES. WHEN YOU HAVE THAT DIVERSE ECOSYSTEM AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT YOU'RE DEMONSTRATING A SYSTEM IN BALANCE.  GOTCHA. AND YOU KNOW PLEASE PLEASE.  SO I HAVE A VERY GOOD QUESTION . UM, OBVIOUSLY RATS RODENTS ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF OUR FOOD CHAIN AND A LOT OF OUR RAPTORS PREDATORY SPECIES RELY ON THAT SUSTENANCE. BUT I WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT IN THE CITY OF BOSTON WE'RE VERY LUCKY TO HAVE AS MUCH NATURAL ENVIRONMENT AS WE ARE THROUGHOUT THE EMERALD NECKLACE. A LOT OF THESE SPECIES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RED TAILED HAWKS FOWLES EAGLES THEY HAVE A REASONABLY LARGE FEEDING RANGE AND WE HAVE A LOT OF NATURAL AREAS THAT CAN SUSTAIN NOT JUST RATS BUT OTHER RODENTS, SHREWS, MOLES, VOLES THINGS THAT ALSO MAKE UP THEIR DIET CLOSE BY.  AND AS YOU POINTED OUT, WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT A TOTAL ERADICATION.  IT'S MORE OF A BALANCE. WE FORESEE THIS AS SORT OF EQUALIZING THINGS A LITTLE BIT MORE AND SPREADING OUT THE POPULATIONS BECAUSE WE DO UNFORTUNATELY SEE ARTIFICIAL GATHERING OF SOME SPECIES AND THERE'S A LOT OF RODENTS IN A SINGLE AREA AND IF THEY'RE EATING RODENTS THAT ARE UNIVERSALLY POISONED I MEAN THERE'S ONE STUDY OUT OF TUFTS UNIVERSITY THAT SHOWED 100% EXPOSURE TO SCARS IN THE STATE OF ABOUT 100 PATIENTS THAT WERE TESTED. SO WE ACTUALLY THINK THIS WOULD HAVE A BIT OF THE OPPOSITE EFFECT AND SORT OF REGAINING A NATURAL BALANCE.  GOOD. THANK YOU. AND THEN SAY I BELIEVE THIS ONE THIS WOULD BE PROBABLY FOR YOU BUT I KNOW THE THE EPA IS PROPOSING RECLASSIFYING THE ANTI-COAGULANT RODENTICIDES FOR RESTRICTED USE. I ASSUME THAT'S A FEDERAL THING. IS THAT ANYTHING AT THE STATE AND CITY LEVEL AS WELL AND WHAT DOES RESTRICTED MEAN IN THAT CASE? LIKE IN WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD YOU BE ALLOWED TO USE THE ANTICOAGULANT VERSUS THE NOT SURE. SO I'LL START WITH THE SECOND HALF OF THAT QUESTION FIRST AT THE STATE LEVEL AT THE STATE LEVEL WE HAVE OUR PETITION PENDING BEFORE THE MASSACHUSETTS DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURAL RESOURCES. WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT THEY WILL SEE OUR VIEW THAT THE CONTINUED REGISTRATION OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES VIOLATES THE SPCA . HOWEVER, THERE ARE ALSO A NUMBER OF LOCAL CITIZEN PETITIONS IN FRONT OF MUNICIPAL TEAS AROUND BOSTON, FOR EXAMPLE, I BELIEVE ARLINGTON HAS BANNED THE USE OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES IN RESPONSE TO CITIZEN INTEREST IN THE ISSUE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.  EPA IS CURRENTLY PROPOSING TO RECLASSIFY ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES FOR RESTRICTED USE WHICH MEANS THAT THEY WOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO BE APPLIED BY CERTIFIED APPLICATORS AND ALSO THEY'RE GOING TO PUT THE PROPOSAL CURRENTLY INCLUDES A NUMBER OF RESTRICTIONS ON THE USE AND OF ANTICOAGULANT RODENTICIDES FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THEY CAN BE PLACED. I BELIEVE THERE ARE GEOGRAPHIC RESTRICTIONS FROM WILD AREAS AS WELL AS PARTICULARLY DENSE AREAS AND HOMES. ANOTHER ASPECT OF THE PROPOSAL THAT I CAN RECALL FROM THE TOP OF MY HEAD A MANDATORY COLLECTION PROCESS. SO APPLICATORS WILL HAVE TO GO OUT AND IDENTIFY DECEASED RODENTS AND COLLECT THEM AND BRING THEM BACK SO THAT THEY CAN'T BE PICKED UP BY RAPTORS.  THEY'LL ALSO HAVE TO REGULARLY CHECK THE DISTRIBUTION CENTERS SO THOSE BLACK BOXES THAT WE SEE THEY'LL HAVE TO BE KIND OF SERVICE MORE FREQUENTLY. THERE'S NOT A CLEAR TIMELINE ON WHEN EPA WILL ANNOUNCE ITS FINAL RECOMMENDATION BUT I THINK THE ESTIMATED DATE OF ANNOUNCEMENT IS SOME TIME IN 2026. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, JIM.  YOUR COUNCILOR I'D JUST LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT COUNCILOR DURKAN HAS JOINED US. THANK YOU FOR FOR ATTENDING THIS TIME TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COUNCILOR WEBER . THANK YOU. YEAH, I MENTIONED THAT I LIVE IN JAMAICA PLAIN, ALSO LIVED ON CRANSTON STREET SO I A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE IS IT ALONG WITH MULTIPLE LOCATIONS ALONG THE STREET JUST WHERE YOU KNOW WHERE IT MEETS SHERIDAN OR UM YEAH SO CRANSTON IS KIND OF LIKE AN E SHAPED STREET THAT'S BORDERED BY SHERIDAN RIGHT? AND FOR MY COUNT THERE'S ABOUT 50 INDIVIDUAL HOUSES ON IN THAT AREA BECAUSE OF THE FEEDING RANGE OF IT. NOT EVERY HOUSE MUST PARTICIPATE IN THE STUDY IN ORDER TO REAP THE BENEFITS OF THE APPLICATION BECAUSE THEY OVERLAP WITH THE FEEDING RANGE OF FLYNN AROUND OF THOSE HOMES. 31 HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THIS STUDY AND I HAVE STATIONS WITH THE FEED AVAILABLE AT DIFFERENT POINTS ON THE PROPERTY. SOME ARE BY THEIR TRASHCANS, SOME ARE IN THEIR BACKYARD ALONG FENCE LINES. SOME ARE RIGHT AT STREET LEVEL . OKAY AND THEN HOW MUCH IN TERMS OF LIKE MATERIAL ARE YOU DROPPING OFF AND HOW OFTEN I'LL SHOW YOU. YEAH.  OKAY. SO WE USE THESE MEASURING CONTAINERS THAT HAVE A MEASURING STICK INSIDE SO THAT SOMEBODY THAT COMES QUICKLY BY CAN JUST GLANCE IN AND SEE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. I TAKE A QUICK OF WHAT'S LEFT AND NOTICE IF THERE'S ANYTHING UNUSUAL OR WHETHER THERE MIGHT BE SOME TRACK MARKS OR DROPPINGS I FILL IT BACK TO 100%, GIVE IT A SHAPE TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S LEVEL.  I CLOSE THE BOX AND I MOVE ON AND THEN YOU KNOW IT'S A DID YOU HAVE LIKE A WEIGHT OR SOMETHING 600 GRAMS THAT WENT THAT IS 600 GRAMS AND 100% FEEL LIKE IF YOU WENT OVER THE COURSE OF A MONTH YOU KNOW MUCH FOOD YOU KNOW THE BIRTH CONTROL FOOD YOU NEED YEAH I USE LIKE I SAID A HEAVY APPLICATION JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO REALLY KEEP OUR FOOT ON THE GAS PEDAL WHEN WHEN LEARNING HOW MUCH IS GOING TO BE NEEDED I USE ABOUT I WOULD SAY ABOUT 1200 GRAMS MONTH PER STATION TO BE TO FULFILLS BUT AS I MENTIONED THAT'S PROBABLY AN OVERESTIMATE OF REQUIRED AMOUNT AND THEN I GUESS SO WHEN WE HAD OUR HEARING WITH AN EXPERT THE GUY FROM NEW YORK CAN'T REMEMBER HIS NAME HE TALKED ABOUT BIRTH CONTROL HAVING LIMITED ABILITY TO LOWER THE POPULATION.  YOU COULD YOU COULD LOWER THE NUMBER OF BIRTHS ON CRANSTON BUT IF ON YOU KNOW SHERIDAN OR BOYLSTON RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER WHERE PAUL GORE I GUESS YOU KNOW THE RATS ARE PROCREATING LIKE THEY USUALLY DO THEY'LL JUST COME INTO THAT AREA. I MEAN DO HAVE I KNOW YOU I GUESS TO PARTICIPATE YOU HAVE A RESPONSE TO THAT AND TO YOU COULD YOU DO A PILOT IN A PLACE THAT'S MORE ENCLOSED WHERE YOU COULD MAYBE HAVE LIKE SHOW THE EFFECTIVENESS? YEAH, I'LL ANSWER THAT QUESTION IN TWO PARTS AS FAR AS WHETHER WE CAN SHOW IN A MORE ENCLOSED LOCATION. YES, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS IN AN ANIMAL SANCTUARY IN UTAH WHERE BUILDINGS HAVE GONE THROUGH EXTENSIVE EXCLUSION MEASURES TO MAKE SURE RODENTS AREN'T COMING IN OR OUT. THIS MIMICS AN ISLAND SETTING IN THAT SITUATION. WELL, WE KNEW THAT WE WERE DEALING WITH THE SAME RODENTS NOT NEW ONES MIGRATING IN. WE WERE ABLE TO BRING THE POPULATION DOWN BY 98% WITHIN FOUR MONTHS AND IT STAYED DOWN. HOWEVER, HUMANS LIVE DIFFERENTLY THAN ISLAND SETTINGS AND RATS LIVE HOW HUMANS LIVE SO WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE AN OPEN BORDER AND STILL APPLY THE SAME TACTICS WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE THERE WILL BE IN-MIGRATION IN AN OPEN STREET SETTING JUST BECAUSE RATS DON'T OBSERVE PERIMETERS, BOUNDARIES, YARD LINES, PROPERTY LINES, THINGS LIKE THAT.  BUT THE MORE RODENTS THAT HAVE ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL, THE FEWER BIRTHS ACROSS THE BOARD. SO THE 50% 50 TO 60% REDUCTION WE'RE DEMONSTRATING ON CRANSTON TAKES INTO ACCOUNT IN-MIGRATION AND NEW RATS SHOWING AND BECOMING CONTRACEPTIVE CONTRACEPTIVE IN THE PROCESS.  OKAY, THANK YOU. I HAVE ONE LAST MAYBE QUICK QUESTION I I REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT TO REDUCE MOSQUITO POPULATIONS A PROPOSAL TO BASICALLY GENETICALLY MODIFIED THEM TO BE STERILE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WHETHER THAT'S EVEN POSSIBLE HERE OR WHAT THE ETHICS OF IT ARE IF ANY ANYBODY ON THE PANEL KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT WHO'S ON THE RADIO. SO AS A RELIABLE SOURCE SO GENETICALLY MODIFYING MOSQUITO IS IS TECHNICALLY MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD THAN GENETICALLY MODIFYING A RAT POPULATION. SO I THINK THAT'S MORE WITHIN REACH THAN TRYING TO DO SO WITH RATS. I KNOW THERE ARE STUDIES GENE DRIVES THAT LOOK TO SEE THIS POSSIBILITY BUT I THINK THERE'S STILL 10 TO 15 YEARS OUT FROM APPLICATION.  OKAY. THANK YOU. THANKS CHAIR DOLGEN THEY GET COUNSELOR JUST WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY COUNSELOR FLYNN AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR JOINING COUNSELOR BREADON THANK YOU MR CHAIR.  YOU MENTIONED THAT IN THE REHABILITATION CENTER THAT YOU HAD AN OLD THAT'S A YOUNG GIRL THAT SURVIVED AND IN ITS REHABILITATION TIME IT'S AT IT'S WHAT, 2000 RATS? YEAH. YEAH.  I YOU KNOW, I REALLY I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT ARE OUR PREDATORS ARE THE KEY TO CONTROLLING OUR POPULATION GOING FORWARD.  I REMEMBER WALKING IN QUINN TAVERN IN ALLSTON PROBABLY 15 YEARS AGO, MAYBE 20 YEARS AGO AND WAS WALKING DOWN THE STREET AND UP ON A LEDGE THERE WAS A WHOLE FAMILY OF RED TAILED HAWKS AND HEALTHY, WONDERFUL BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS BUT WE DON'T SEE THAT SO MUCH ANYMORE AND I THINK AND CONCERN AND ALSO TELL ME ABOUT THE THE SAFETY OF THE THE ANTI THE THE CONTRACEPTIVE LIKE DOES IT RATS EAT A LOT IS IF NOT IF OTHER ANIMALS EAT A LOT OF THE RATS DO THEY DOES IT AFFECT THEIR FERTILITY IT DOESN'T AFFECT THEIR FERTILITY IT DOES AFFECT THEIR NUTRITION BECAUSE OF THE PLANT BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF BEING A PLANT DERIVATIVE AND ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS IT DOESN'T A BIO ACCUMULATE IN THE LIVER OR TISSUES OF THE INTENDED TARGET THE HALF LIFE OF OUR ACTIVE INGREDIENT IN A RAT IS ABOUT 12 MINUTES IN THE LIVER MEANING IT'S METABOLIZED MORE QUICKLY THAN IT WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE AN EFFECT ON SOMETHING THAT ATE IT EVEN IF IF A PREDATOR ATE THE RAT WITHIN THAT 12 MINUTES THE FORMULATION OF OUR PELLETS HAS SUCH AN EXQUISITELY LOW CONCENTRATION OF THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT IT WOULD NOT TRANSFER TO A SECONDARY EXPOSURE.  BUT THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION. YES.  AND THEN JUST THINKING ABOUT SCALING THIS UP, YOU DON'T AS YOU SAID, YOU'RE NOT YOU'RE NOT DOING 100% COVERAGE OF ALL OF THE HOUSES IN THE STUDY AREA . HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT SCALING IT UP TO A LARGER AREA LIKE WE PROBABLY NEED TO DO THIS CITYWIDE?  WHAT HOW WOULD WE DO THAT?  WELL, I, I WOULD WANT TO WORK REALLY CLOSELY WITH THE CITY TO FIND AND IDENTIFY AREAS WHERE IT'S MOST BADLY NEEDED FIRST. I THINK THAT A GOAL OF COMPLETE COVERAGE IS A GOOD PLACE TO AIM BUT EVEN A SMALLER STUDY OR A SMALLER APPLICATION AT FIRST WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT STEP. WE UNDERSTAND THE SCIENCE AND THE BEHAVIOR OF THE RODENT YOU UNDERSTAND THE THE DENSITY THE POPULATION OF THE CITY SO TOGETHER WE COULD IDENTIFY WAYS TO APPLY IT MORE LIBERALLY AND WIDESPREAD WITHOUT IT BECOMING BURDENSOME TO TO THE CITY. ONE ISSUE WE HAVE IN OUR PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD IS WE HAVE A LOT OF ABSENTEE LANDLORDS. DO YOU NEED A LANDLORD PERMISSION TO BE IT TO USE THE YOU KNOW IF THEY'RE ABSENTEE LANDLORDS THAT THAT'S A BIG PART OF OUR PROBLEM IS THAT TRY TO DISPOSE WAS NOT I'M NOT DONE WELL WHEN YOU HAVE ABSENTEE LANDLORDS SO DO YOU WHAT'S THE RELATIONSHIP WITH HOW DO YOU WORK WITH LANDLORDS BECAUSE OF WHERE I'VE BEEN WORKING IN BOSTON ALL BEING PRIVATE PROPERTIES I HAVE HAD TO HAD THE PERMISSION OF EACH INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER WHEN YOU MOVE INTO CITY MANAGED PROPERTY WE THEN JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE PERMISSION OF THE CITY. SO EVEN IF WE COULDN'T DO IT UBIQUITOUSLY ACROSS RESIDENTIAL AREAS STARTING WITH CITY HELD PROPERTIES IS A IS A GOOD FIRST STEP WE'RE WORKING WITH THE CITY OF CHICAGO AND THEY'VE IDENTIFIED THEIR ALLEYWAYS AS A PLACE WHERE IT WOULDN'T INTERFERE WITH NEEDING PROPERTY PERMISSIONS BUT STILL ABLE TO HAVE WIDESPREAD DISTRIBUTION THROUGHOUT THE CITY. AND IN TERMS OF THE ROUTE AND TRADING RANGE, IS THAT WHAT, 300 FEET OR IS IT? YEAH, I IDEALLY WHEN THEY'RE HAPPY WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR NEEDS BEING MET IT'S ABOUT 100 FEET. THEY CAN BE PUSHED UP TO 300 FEET IN A FEEDING RANGE IF THERE'S A SCARCITY OF OF AVAILABILITY OF FOOD BUT THEY PREFER TO EAT PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE THEY LIVE.  CLOSE TO HOME. YEAH. GOOD. THANK YOU. LIKE ME . THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR COUNCILOR DURKIN.  THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHAIR. I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS FILING. I APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION.  I ALSO REALLY APPRECIATE THAT THE ADMIN IS HERE WAITING TO TESTIFY BECAUSE I'M DIGGING MYSELF INTO THE PLAN AND REALLY APPRECIATE EVERYTHING THAT THE CITY DOING TO TRY TO MITIGATE RATS YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE COMPLAINT DATA WITHIN THE BOSTON RODENT ACTION PLAN, IT'S CLEAR THAT EVERY SINGLE NEIGHBORHOOD SUFFERS FROM RODENT POPULATIONS INCREASING.  I APPRECIATE TO ALL OF YOUR TESTIMONY AND I, I THINK I'VE BEEN ALERTED TO AN ISSUES ABOUT ABOUT SORT OF THE HUMANE SIDE OF OF THIS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK BUT RESPECT PHILLY DEFINITELY MY CONSTITUENTS ARE ASKING FOR WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO GET RID AND I KNOW TO GET RID OF THE RODENT POPULATION AND I KNOW THAT HAVING BEEN ON A COUPLE OF ESTY WALK AROUND IN MY NEIGHBORHOODS SOME OF THESE TOOLS ARE ALREADY BEING USED AND THEY ARE JUST AREN'T PANNING OUT TO BE EFFECTIVE AT LIKE LOWERING THE POPULATION AT A SIGNIFICANT RATE. SO I GUESS WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT? WELL, MY RESPONSE IS THAT THERE'S TWO WAYS TO KNOCK IT DOWN, RIGHT? THERE'S QUICK AND THEN THERE'S LONG TERM YOU'LL NOTICE IN THE REPORT IT SAYS THAT WITH A LETHAL KNOCK DOWN STRATEGY YOU CAN EXPECT A REBOUND WITHIN FOUR MONTHS. SO THAT PUTS YOU IN A CYCLE OF HAVING TO USE THE SAME TOOLS OVER AND OVER AGAIN IF INSTEAD YOU'RE LOOKING AT A MORE SUSTAINABLE APPROACH THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY BUT LOOKS TO CURB THE PROBLEM OF A GROWING POPULATION, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LONGER, MORE SUSTAINABLE SOLUTION.  I'D ALSO SAY THAT SOME OF THOSE NON POISONOUS BUT LETHAL MEASURES CAN BE USED VERY FOR AN IMMEDIATE KNOCK DOWN STRATEGY. BUT THE PROBLEM YOU RUN INTO IS THAT SAY YOU'RE GASSING A BOROUGH SO YOU'RE USING SNAP TRAPS.  YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET EVERY INDIVIDUAL WITHIN THAT POPULATION AND THE THE INDIVIDUALS THAT REMAIN ARE GOING TO CONTINUE BREEDING AT THAT RAPID RATE AND THAT'S WHAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE THE QUICK REBOUND.  AND I GUESS WHAT I'VE WITNESSED ON THESE WALK AROUNDS IS THAT THE CITY IS USING CONTRA PACE AND THEY ARE USING THESE TOOLS ALONGSIDE OTHER TOOLS. I THINK IT I THINK WHAT'S DIFFICULT TO EVALUATE IS REALLY HOW EFFECTIVE AND IT'S FOR THE CITY TO MEASURE JUST HOW EFFECTIVE THIS PARTICULAR TOOL IS OVER THE OTHER TOOLS AND I PERSONALLY I FEEL LIKE FOR ALL OF OUR BUSINESS DISTRICTS FIGURING HOW TO CREATE MITIGATION STRATEGIES FOR EACH ONE WHICH I KNOW IS SOMETHING AND YOU KNOW, PUBLIC AWARENESS CAMPAIGNS ARE SOMETHING THAT WE NEED. BUT I DO THINK HAVING DONE A FILING THIS YEAR ON CONTAINERIZATION THAT IS CORE TO THE DIRECTION THAT I THINK THE CITY NEEDS TO GO IN IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS I REPRESENT GIVEN THAT THERE'S NO SPACE FOR TRASH CANS SO BUT I MEAN I HAVE BEEN GOOGLING LATE AT NIGHT COLLAPSIBLE TRASH CAN SO EXCITED TO TALK WITH THE ADMINISTRATION PANEL ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT WHEN WITH OTHER SOLUTIONS. BUT IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL STRATEGY AND TRYING TO SORT OF DIG IN TO LIKE WHAT PERCENTAGE OF STRATEGY DO YOU THINK THAT RAT BIRTH CONTROL SHOULD BE TO OUR OVERALL STRATEGY IS THE CITY? THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. FIRST I WANT TO CLARIFY AND JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT ADVOCATING THE USE OF CONTROVERSY. I THINK IT COMES WITH ITS OWN SET OF SETBACKS AND HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN SUCCESSFUL. WE STRICTLY RECOMMEND USING GOOD BITES WHICH ARE SOLID PELLET WHICH WAS STAND THE APPLICATION IN A MUCH STRONGER WAY AS FAR AS HOW MUCH OF THE INTEGRATED PEST MANAGEMENT STRATEGY IT WOULD NEED TO BE, WE HAVEN'T YET MEASURED I THINK THAT THAT WE WOULD NEED THE INPUT OF CITY LIKE INSPECTIONAL SERVICES AND OTHER YOU KNOW,  TRASH MANAGEMENT WASTE MANAGEMENT IT WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE IPM BUT IT WOULDN'T BE THE IT WOULDN'T REPLACE EVERYTHING ELSE.  DO YOU THINK IF YOU KNOW I THINK A BIG PART OF THE RAP WAS FIGURING OUT, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT POPULATIONS AND ONE OF THE TEST CASES IN THE RAP IS PUBLIC HOUSING.  DO YOU THINK IF THE SO SOME OF THESE TOOLS WERE UTILIZED IN A SMALLER SENSE IN SORT OF A SMALLER FOOTPRINT THAT THAT WOULD BE EFFECTIVE OR DO YOU FEEL LIKE BECAUSE I THINK WHAT I'M GRAPPLING WITH JUST SORT OF HEARING THE INFORMATION AND TRYING TO DIGEST IT IS WE HAVE A WHOLE CITY TO RUN AND IT JUST TRYING TO DO THAT TRYING TO DO THIS AT SCALE IS DIFFICULT AND I KNOW FOLKS ARE WORKING REALLY HARD AND I, I GUESS ON MY END I JUST I'M NOT I KNOW THIS THE TOOLS THAT THE CITY IS ALREADY USING AND I KNOW THE VENDORS THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE IN SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS SORT OF HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU SORT OF START USING SOME OF THESE TOOLS WITHOUT WHICH I KNOW SIMILAR TOOLS ARE BEING USED BUT LIKE HOW DO YOU SCALE IT UP? YEAH, I THINK THAT YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER A SMALLER FOOTPRINT WOULD BE EFFECTIVE IS AN IMPORTANT ONE.  I THINK WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE A CITY HOUSING PROJECT FOR EXAMPLE LIKE YOU JUST MENTIONED WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AND HAS SHOWN SOME PROMISE IS THAT USING A FOOD SOURCE THAT THE RATS TRUST WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO RELOCATE RATS FROM INSIDE BUILDINGS TO OUTSIDE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY CLOSELY AND DENSELY POPULATED PUBLIC HOUSING, ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS IS THE AGE AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING ITSELF. IF YOU ARE ABLE TO USE A TOOL THAT ENTICES THE RATS AWAY FROM THE HOMES THAT THEY ARE CURRENTLY INFLICTING, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF SUCCESS IN THAT WAY AND YES WE CAN DEMONSTRATE SUCCESS IN A SMALL SMALLER FOOTPRINT. IT DOESN'T REQUIRE AN ALL IN METHOD FOR THIS TO BE PICKED UP AND CONSIDERED SUCCESSFUL. ANY MEASURES A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.  OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. COUNCILOR DURKAN COUNCILOR FLYNN.  THANK YOU MR CHAIR AND THANK YOU TO THE PANEL FOR BEING HERE. I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK ON THIS ISSUE FOR SEVEN YEARS ON ON THE CITY COUNCIL AND I FELT MANY HEARINGS ON ALL ISSUES RELATING TO PEST CONTROL . RECENTLY WE HAD A CONSULTANT THAT ALSO SUBMITTED A REPORT TO THE CITY OF BOSTON.  SOME OF THOSE WERE IMPLEMENTED THAT I THAT I PREVIOUSLY RECOMMENDED.  ALSO THE ONE ISSUE THAT HASN'T BEEN IMPLEMENTED WAS THE PEST CONTROL ZONE STILL STILL AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF THE OF THE SOLUTION.  WHAT I WANTED TO FOCUS ON IS IN ONE OTHER ISSUE I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT TOO WAS BOSTON DOESN'T.  UP UNTIL RECENTLY WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY PEST CONTROL SPECIALIST BUT WE'RE WORKING ON THE WEEKENDS THAT WE'RE ALL WORKING MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY AND THEN NOT FROM AND NOT FROM FRIDAY AFTERNOON UNTIL MONDAY MORNING WHEN SIGNIFICANT QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES DO ARISE. BUT GETTING BACK TO GETTING BACK TO THIS ISSUE.  WHAT SUCCESS HAVE YOU HAD WORKING WITH OTHER CITIES AND TOWNS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU DID AND WHAT THE SUCCESS WAS OR ANY CHALLENGE CHALLENGES YOU HAD AS WELL? YEAH, WELL EVERY PILOT PROGRAM WE'VE HAD HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE LEARNING OPPORTUNITY. THEY'VE ALL BEEN IN VERY DISTINCT AND UNIQUE ENVIRONMENTS WHICH ALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE TO THE BUILDING OF BEST PRACTICES FOR APPLICATION. I PERSONALLY HAVE ONLY OVERSEEN THE WORK IN BOSTON AND THE EAST COAST. WE'VE WORKED IN NEW YORK.  WE'VE WORKED IN MARCO ISLAND, FLORIDA. I'M ESTABLISHING APPLICATION WITH CITIES IN CONNECTICUT AND CHICAGO AS WELL. WHAT CHANGES FROM SITE TO SITE ISN'T THE BEHAVIOR OF THE ANIMALS SO MUCH AS THE BEHAVIOR OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE?  THERE'S A LOT OF EDUCATION THAT GOES INTO TEACHING PEOPLE ABOUT CONTAINERIZED IN THEIR GARBAGE, TEACHING THEM ABOUT PICKING UP AFTER THEIR PET WASTE IN THEIR YARD AND HOW THESE ARE ALL FOOD SOURCES FOR THE RATS IN IT AND CONTRIBUTE TO GROWING POPULATIONS OTHER THAN THAT. WEATHER PATTERNS AND SEASONALITY COME INTO PLAY BUT IF YOUR QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE TO PUT THIS OUT ON THE WEEKENDS YOU DON'T.  WEEKLY APPLICATION IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.  THANK YOU. FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, HOW IMPORTANT IS PUBLIC COMMUNICATION ENSURING THE PUBLIC KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT WHAT IS EXPECTED OF THEM, WHAT'S EXPECTED OF THE CITY, THE COMMUNICATION ASPECT OF IT INCLUDING COMMUNICATING IN VARIOUS LANGUAGES AS WELL. HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED WORKING WITH DIVERSE COMMUNITIES LIKE THAT? I PERSONALLY HAVE AN EXPERIENCE TOO ANY LANGUAGE BARRIERS YET BUT THAT'S PROBABLY JUST DUE TO MY AREAS OF WORK. I DO THINK THAT CIVIC COMMUNICATION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL AND AS RESIDENTS LEARN THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING THEY UNDERSTAND IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER AND ARE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT AMONGST THEIR PEERS, THEIR NEIGHBORS. RATS ARE A VERY TOUCHY SUBJECT WHETHER YOU LIKE THEM, WHETHER YOU HATE THEM THEY CAN BE INCREDIBLY POLARIZING UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO ADDRESS A PROBLEM GOES A LONG WAY INTO SOLVING IT. EXCELLENT. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR THE WORK YOU'RE DOING AND I'M STILL ADVOCATING FOR A PEST CONTROL. RATS ARE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON . I THINK IT'S CRITICALLY NEEDED AND WANT TO ASK MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES FOR THEIR SUPPORT ON THAT. IF WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS ISSUE.  THANK YOU, MR CHAIRMAN. I THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . WHEN WE SET THE TIME FOR MYSELF . NO TIME. RIGHT. I'M GOING TO THANK YOU. I WANT TO START WITH A QUESTION FOR ALENA.  YOU MENTIONED THAT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES IN THE COUNTRY HAVE STARTED TO DO SOME PILOT.  YOU SAID THE CITY OF CHICAGO IS DOING THEM IN CITY ON ALLEYS AND I KNOW THAT ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES IN THE PUBLIC SERVICE COUNCIL , SHAWNA BRAVO IN NEW YORK WAS THE ONE THAT INTRODUCED THE LEGISLATION OVER THERE. HAVE THEY SHOWN ANY SUCCESS ESPECIALLY CHICAGO'S ALREADY DOING IT. WHAT HOW ARE THE POPULATIONS OF RATS DECREASING WHAT'S HAPPENING? TO BE CLEAR, CHICAGO HASN'T STARTED YET.  THIS IS ALL IN DESIGN. IT'S KIND OF A SNOWBALL EFFECT AS ONE CITY HEARS OF IT AND ANOTHER ONE'S LIKE WE WANT TO JUMP IN. WE WANT TO TRY.  SO WE'RE AT VARIOUS STAGES. BOSTON IS BY FAR THE FURTHEST ALONG AS FAR AS URBAN DEPLOYMENT COMES.  WE HAVE SEEN THE SUCCESS IN MARCO ISLAND OF IMPLEMENT IMPLEMENTING AT A CITY LEVEL WORKING WITH THE CITY STAFF IN THIS CITY IN FLORIDA. WE WERE ABLE TO IDENTIFY WE WERE ABLE TO FUND AND WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO START OUR FIRST CITY OWNED PROPERTY PROJECT AND I WAS READING RECENTLY A NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC REPORT ABOUT HOW A PAIR OF RATS CAN HAVE UP TO 15,000 MICE A YEAR. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT NUMBER IS I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER IS BUT HOW WOULD YOU IMAGINE BY USING THIS KIND OF RAT BIRTH CONTROL DECREASE THOSE NUMBERS. ARE THERE ANY ESTIMATES THAT HAVE ANY STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE ON THAT? WELL, WITHIN THE FIRST WEEK OF CONSUMING GOOD BITES, MALE AND FEMALE RODENTS ARE RENDERED INFERTILE. SO WITHIN THE FIRST 28 DAYS YOU'RE ALREADY SKIPPING GENERATIONS OF 10 TO 12 PUPS THAT WILL THEN GO ON TO REACH SEXUAL MATURITY WITHIN THE FIRST SIX WEEKS OF THEIR LIVES . THE NUMBERS THE SAME WAY THEY EXPONENTIALLY GROW THEY EXPONENTIALLY DECREASE. OKAY.  AND I THINK TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD'S POINT I THIS IN REGARDS TO THE ECOSYSTEM THAT DOES THAT IS THAT IS ENOUGH CONCERN TO TO YOU ALL THE ECOSYSTEMS OF A HIGH CONCERN I'M SORRY I DON'T . SORRY . IN TERMS OF DECREASING THE POPULATION LIKE THAT, DOES IT BALANCE OUT WELL, IT WILL ABSOLUTELY.  NATURE WANTS TO LIVE IN BALANCE . WE WILL WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE ANY SORT OF POPULATION REDUCTION THAT WILL LEAVE A FOOD SHORTAGE FOR NATURAL PREDATORS. WE WANT FEWER RATS. WE WANT HEALTHIER RATS.  WHEN THERE ARE FEWER RATS YOU HAVE LESS DAMAGE, YOU HAVE LESS FOOD INSECURITY, YOU HAVE LESS DISEASE BURDEN, YOU HAVE A STRONGER IMMUNE CAPABILITY OF THOSE ANIMALS AND AT THAT POINT YOU'RE PROTECTING THE BIRDS OF PREY BECAUSE YOU'RE PROVIDING A HEALTHY MEAL YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT REGULAR EATING WHETHER PEST MANAGERS HAVE TO COME BACK AND COLLECT CARCASSES BECAUSE YOU'RE NO LONGER WORRIED ABOUT LEAVING POISONED CARCASSES ON THE STREET. OKAY.  THANK YOU. ZACH IN YOUR STATE I MEAN YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE ARE OTHER SOLUTIONS THAT YOU THINK COULD ALSO GO HAND IN HAND WITH THIS THAT ARE NOT POISONOUS. WHAT ARE WHAT ARE SOME THAT YOU RECOMMEND? SURE. SO WHENEVER WE TALK ABOUT ROAD CONTROL IT'S A IT'S A TOOLBOX AND YOU WANT TO USE EVERYTHING YOU CAN.  I THINK PUBLIC EDUCATION IS PROBABLY THE SHARPEST POINT IN THE TOOLBOX GETTING OUT THE WORD THAT YOU HAVE A CHOICE IN THE ROAD CONTROL USING YOUR OWN HOUSE, GETTING OUT THE WORD THAT YOU CAN BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION VERY EASILY. SOME OF THE THINGS WE ALWAYS RECOMMEND ARE THE MANUAL TRAPS MEANING ONE ON ONE ROAD AT A TIME SNAP TRAPS THINGS LIKE THAT IN CONJUNCTION WITH METHODS LIKE THE ROAD AND BIRTH CONTROL AS WELL AS BETTER CONTAINERS STORING THE CONTAINERS IN A SENSIBLE PART OF THE YARD THAT MAY HAVE LESS ACCESS FANS LINES AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT THAT IS GENERALLY WE TRY TO HELP PEOPLE AND THEN ANOTHER BIG ONE THAT HASN'T BEEN MENTIONED THAT WE COME UP AGAINST A LOT IS FEEDING PETS OUTSIDE AND SO LIMITING YOU KNOW FEEDING YOUR YOUR OWN ANIMALS AND THINGS INSIDE AND ELIMINATING FOOD SOURCES.  OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT'S MY TIME.  BUT I DO WANT TO GIVE I WANT TO ASK MY COLLEAGUES DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR THIS SPECIFIC PANEL? YES.  OKAY. WE GOT ONE MORE. THANK YOU.  AND I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE FOR THE ANSWERS. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. JUST ANOTHER QUESTION FOR ELAINA AND I WANT TO SHOUT OUT DR. MAYOR FOR ALL THE WORK THAT SHE'S DONE. SHE SAT DOWN WITH OUR GROUP IN MY OFFICE, EMILY POST AND TO REALLY GO OVER THE DATA THAT IN JP AND TO THINK ABOUT WHAT SUCCESS LOOKS LIKE AND MEASURABILITY AND ALL OF THAT.  CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE TRANSITION THAT COUNCIL TOOK IN AND MENTIONED IT AS WELL FROM CONTRA PASSED TO GOOD WORKS?  YEAH. DR. MAYOR AND DR. DYER WHO ARE THE TWO FOUNDERS OF WISDOM GOOD WORKS WERE THE ORIGINAL INVENTORS OF EPA REGISTERED CONTRA PEST. IT IS A LIQUID FORM CONTRACEPTIVE THAT HAS KNOWN CHEMICALS IN IT THAT REQUIRED REGISTRATION BY THE EPA SINCE DEPARTING THEIR WORK WITH TENNESSEE TECH AND NO LONGER WORKING WITH CONTRA PEST THEY'VE DEVELOPED WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE A MORE EFFICACIOUS APPLICATION. THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY SET THAT ANY ANY PRODUCT DOESN'T NEED TO HAVE CHEMICALS IN IT WHEN THERE ARE AVAILABLE PLANT DERIVATIVES THAT HAVE THE SAME EFFECT.  WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE IT'S A SOLID PELLET FORM THE SIZE OF SOMETHING A RAT WOULD EAT THEY'RE ABLE TO CONSUME AT THE STATION. THEY'RE ALSO ABLE TO SAFELY TAKE IT BACK TO THE NEST AND FEED THEIR YOUNG THE SOONER AND YOUNGER A RAT IS WHEN FIRST EXPOSED THE MORE QUICKLY AND LONGER LASTING THE CONTRACEPTIVE EFFECT HAS. THANK YOU. AND THEN THIS ONE. GOOD WORKS GOOD GOOD BYE ISN'T YET REGISTERED WITH THE EPA THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO DO OR IT'S NOT GOING TO REQUIRE EPA REGISTRATION UNDER THE FEE FOR ACT SECTION 25 BE THERE ARE NO INGREDIENTS IN GOOD BITES THAT WOULD CROSS THAT THRESHOLD OF MINIMUM RISK REQUIRING REGISTRATION BY THE EPA. OKAY. THANK YOU AND THANK YOU,  MR CHAIR, FOR ALL I'M GOING TO ASK THE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  AND A QUESTION ABOUT ABSOLUTELY . I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION AND NO ONE TALKED ABOUT RAPTORS TURKEY VULTURES TO EAT CARRION LIKE AND I HAD THE I SAW ONE I THOUGHT A FEW YEARS AGO AND SO THEY EAT SOME PRETTY I WOULD SAY NASTY STUFF AND ARE THEY VULNERABLE JUST LIKE OTHER ANIMALS TO THE ANTI-COAGULANTS ? THEY ARE THEY ARE ANY OF OUR SCAVENGERS AND I'M GLAD YOU BRING UP THE POINT THINGS LIKE TURKEY VULTURES BUT ALSO A LOT OF THE ANIMALS YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT THINGS LIKE CROWS.  I KNOW THIS LAST WEEK IN OUR HOSPITAL WE TOOK IN THREE CHIPMUNKS THAT HAD ALL BEEN EXPOSED TO AND I GOT THAT WORD OUT OF SIZE AS WELL POSSUMS ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE A MEAL OUT OF A RAT WHETHER IT'S PRIOR POST MORTEM IS VULNERABLE AND THE OTHER ANIMAL THAT I'VE NOTICED DISAPPEARING FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS SKUNKS.  WHO IS THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANY CORRELATION WITH THE INCREASED USE OF ANTI-COAGULANTS?  YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE I KNOW ENOUGH TO SPEAK ON THE POPULATION LEVEL BUT I DO KNOW THAT SKUNKS ARE ARE VULNERABLE AS WELL AND WE'VE SEEN A CASE OR TWO IN SKUNKS OVER THE YEARS. OKAY. YEAH. THANK YOU. NOT THAT ANYONE SEEMS TO MISS THE SKUNKS THESE DAYS BUT THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  THANK YOU. OF COURSE. THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. UM, ANYONE ELSE?  WELL, I JUST WANT TO TAKE THE TIME TO THANK YOU ALL AGAIN FOR FOR COMING IN AND TESTIFYING AND THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE HEARD FROM YOU WAS VERY HELPFUL AND A DEFINITE EDUCATING ME A LOT ABOUT THIS TOPIC, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE YOU TO STAY AND LISTEN TO THE CITY PANELISTS.  BUT YES, AGAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING. APPRECIATE IT.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  UM, LISTENING IN PERSON FOR THE LISTENING YEAH BECAUSE I THINK SHE HAS TO GO I THINK THERE'S ONLY TWO YEAH YEAH YEAH.  ALL RIGHT. BEFORE WE BEGIN WITH THE CITY PANELIST, I DO KNOW THAT ONE OF THE PUBLIC TESTIMONIES DO HAVE TO LEAVE EARLY SO I'M GOING TO ASK CAN WE DO AND WE'RE GOING TO DO PUBLIC TESTIMONIES NOW SO IF YOU'RE HERE FOR A PUBLIC TESTIMONY PLEASE COME DOWN TO THE MIC OVER HERE OR TO YOUR LEFT AND YOU WILL HAVE 2 MINUTES TO PROVIDE YOUR PUBLIC TESTIMONY STARTING WITH LAUREN AND THEN ALISON AND STEVEN, THANK YOU.  GOOD MORNING. I WAS TOLD 3 MINUTES SO I WILL TRY TO GO QUICKLY BUT NOT SURE ABOUT TO THANK YOU COUNSELOR. THE REASON AND COUNSELOR PEP FOR ALL OF YOUR WORK AND TO THE OTHER CITY COUNCILORS WHO ARE HERE I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. MY NAME IS LAUREN. OKAY? AND I LIVE ON CRANSTON STREET IN JAMAICA PLAIN ABOUT JUST A BIT ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD THERE AT POPULATION BURGEONED INCLUDING IN MY YARD, WE NOTICED THAT WE HAD A BOROUGH.  WE ALSO STARTED NOTICING MORE AND MORE OF THOSE UBIQUITOUS BLACK BAIT STATIONS POISON STATIONS ALL OVER. I LEARNED MANY OF THE THINGS THAT WERE MENTIONED BY THE VERY INFORMATIVE PANELIST.  I LEARNED HOW INEFFECTIVE THE POISON IS AND HOW WHEN IT DOES KILL RATS THEY SUFFER BLEEDING INTERNALLY FOR DAYS AND THAT THEIR ANIMALS WHO ARE SUCCESSFUL WELL I KNOW THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THEY'RE RESILIENT, INTELLIGENT, FIERCELY DEDICATED PARENTS AND MORE BUT I STARTED TO DIG DEEPER AND LEARN THAT THE POISON BIO ACCUMULATES AND SO THERE'S ALL THESE HAWKS AND OWLS AND EAGLES WHO ARE ALSO DYING AS WE'VE HEARD ALL ABOUT AND I LEARNED THAT IS EVEN THOUGH FEAR OF DISEASE IS KIND OF THE MOST FREQUENT REASON PEOPLE GIVE FOR BEING FREAKED OUT AND FEARFUL OF RATS, THERE IS THIS STUDY THAT I THINK ONE OF THE VETERINARIANS MENTIONED THAT WAS PEER REVIEWED IN CHICAGO AND SHOWED THAT RATS WHO ARE EXPOSED TO THESE POISONS ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO CARRY DISEASE THAN THE RATS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN EXPOSED TO POISONS. SO WE DRASTICALLY CHANGED HOW WE DID THINGS IN OUR YARD AND WE STARTED USING SNAP TRAPS TO TRY TO PROVIDE A QUICK DEATH FOR RATS TO DO THIS WITHOUT KILLING CATS AND SQUIRRELS MEANT GOING OUT AFTER DARK TO SET TRAPS AND GOING OUT BEFORE LIGHT IN THE MORNING TO TAKE THEM BACK IN AND DEAL WITH THE DEAD RATS AND IT WAS PRETTY AWFUL.  I KILLED ABOUT 30 RATS AND LEARNED THAT EVERY FOR EVERY FEMALE RAT WHEN YOU COUNT UP ALL HER BABIES AND GRAND BABIES SHE COULD LEAD TO A THOUSAND MORE RATS IN A YEAR. SO THOSE 30 ARE NOT THAT CONSEQUENCE.  SO WE USE DRY ICE IN THE BURROW. IT REALLY HELPS. WE'VE DONE IT MANY, MANY TIMES. I RESEARCHED ALTERNATIVES AND SPOKE WITH A SALES REP FROM CONTRA PEST WHO HAD BEEN WHICH SYSTEM HAD BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE WE ORGANIZED ORGANIZED NEIGHBORS AND RAISED MONEY FROM NEIGHBORS AND FOR ABOUT A YEAR WE USED CONTRA COSTA MANY HOUSEHOLDS ON SHERIDAN AND CRANSTON.  IT REALLY DIDN'T WORK THAT WELL DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT GETS GROSS AND HEAT AND COLD AND PRETTY INEFFECTIVE IN THOSE HALF THE YEAR TIMES LIKE ELAINE ALLUDED TO. BUT THEN I WAS IN CONVERSATION WITH DR. MAYOR AND SHE SUGGESTED THAT WE TRY HER NEW FERTILITY CONTROL PROJECT AND NOW A PRODUCT AND NOW FOR OVER A YEAR WE'VE BEEN AS YOU HEARD THE RESIDENTIAL PILOT STUDY FOR WISDOM GOOD WORKS AND IT HAS BEEN A HUGE GIFT FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, A HUGE A HUGELY BENEFICIAL OPPORTUNITY IN THE BEGINNING AS WE WERE TOLD WE WERE TOLD WAS LIKELY THERE WERE SLIGHTLY MORE RATS AROUND AS ILLEANA NOTED BUT AFTER SIX MONTHS IN MY YARD WE NO LONGER SAW OR HEARD RATS AT NIGHT WHICH HAD BEEN KIND OF A CONSTANT NOT THAT PLEASANT WHEN YOU'RE OUT ON THE PATIO AT NIGHT AND AFTER EIGHT MONTHS THE HOLES AND ALL THE OTHER SIGNS OF A BURROW IN MY YARD DISAPPEARED AND THERE GONE AND THE DATA AS ELANA SPOKE TO IS EVEN MORE IMPRESSIVE. WE HAD AN 80% DECREASE FROM THE BASELINE AND AROUND MY HOUSE AND A 70% DECREASE FROM THE BASELINE OVERALL. SO IT'S A COMMUNITY EFFORT THAT'S BEEN VERY, VERY EFFECTIVE.  IT IS A FERTILITY CONTROL WORKS IN THE RIGHT WAYS UNLIKE THE POISON THAT WORKS IN ALL THE WRONG WAYS IT'S I HAVE A BETTER I SUGGEST SORRY I'M FORGETTING WHERE I WAS YEAH I SUGGEST LIKE SAM ANDERSON FROM AUDUBON TALKED ABOUT STARTING WITH THE USE OF WISDOM GOOD BITES OR YOU'RE STARTING WITH FERTILITY CONTROL SPECIFICALLY WITH SOME GOOD BITES IN AREAS THAT ARE LARGE AND UNDER CITY CONTROL SO LIKE CITY HALL PLAZA FOR EXAMPLE THE COMMON OTHER LARGE PARKS PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS STARTING PARTNERSHIPS WITH COLLEGES PERHAPS ALSO WORKING IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE REALLY ORGANIZED EFFECTIVE LOCAL CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS WHO COULD BE PARTNERS IN THE MAINTENANCE EFFORTS AND RALLYING VOLUNTEERS . NOW IS REALLY THE TIME FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I'M ALLISON.  HI.  MY NAME IS ALLISON BLANKE. I LIVE IN BRIGHTON. I ALSO AM DIRECTOR OF ADVOCACY FOR THE ANIMAL RESCUE LIKE A BOSTON. SO I'M WEARING TWO HATS TODAY. SO I FIRST WOULD LIKE TO THANK COUNCILOR PEPEN FOR FILING THIS CITY COUNCIL PRESENTATION AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL FOR HOLDING THIS HEARING TODAY. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS AN ISSUE ACROSS BOSTON AND OBVIOUSLY IN BRIGHTON. I GET A RAT WALK EVERY TIME I WALK HOME FROM CITY AT NIGHT SO I APPRECIATE THAT MANY OF YOU HAVE GONE OUT INTO THE COMMUNITIES TO SEE WHAT THE ISSUES PEOPLE ARE FACING AS THE CITY OF BOSTON IS WORKING ON ITS PLANS TO HAVE RODENT CONTROL. HAVING HUMANE OPTIONS IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. MY NEIGHBORS AND THOSE AROUND ME ARE CHANGING THEIR BEHAVIOR BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR ANIMALS ARE NOT INGESTING ANIMALS THAT HAVE COME IN CONTACT WITH THESE SCARS. IT'S DANGEROUS TO HAVE THIS WILD LIFE THAT OFTENTIMES AS SOME HAVE SAID, THAT YOU'LL FIND A INJURED RAT OR OTHER ANIMALS RAPTORS THAT THEN WE HAVE TO CALL 311 BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR PETS ,PARTICULARLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS. SO AS THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL WORKS TO LOOK FOR SOME NONLETHAL OPTIONS THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MENTION SOMETHING THAT ONE OF THE OTHER PANELISTS SAID EARLIER ABOUT GLUE TRAPS AND WOULD REALLY URGE THE CITY TO MOVE AWAY FROM USING THESE. THESE ARE INCREDIBLY INHUMANE CAUSE AN INCREDIBLY PAINFUL DEATH FOR THESE ANIMALS AND QUITE FRANKLY ARE NOT VERY EFFECTIVE AS JUST A PERSONAL NOTE TO I WILL SAY THAT I ONCE LIVED IN A RODENT INFESTED APARTMENT THAT HAD A VERY ATTENTIVE LANDLORD BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE METHODS THAT ARE USED ARE JUST NOT EFFECTIVE AND WE REALLY NEED TO BE USING AS OTHERS HAVE SAID, ALL THE TOOLS IN THE TOOLBOX TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE EFFECTIVELY DEALING WITH THE PROBLEMS OF CONSTITUENTS AND OF THE ANIMALS IN BOSTON. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU.  GOOD TIME, STEPHEN.  I AM STEPHEN RONAN FROM ROXBURY . I WANTED REALLY JUST TO THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS FORWARD AND SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING IT. YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT INITIATIVE. I SUBMITTED A FEW PAGES OF TESTIMONY BUT IT OVERLAPS WITH WHAT'S BEEN SAID BETTER BEFORE. I DO WANT TO COMMEND THE LAST PERSON FOR BRINGING UP THE SUBJECT OF A TRAPS. I KNOW BOBBY CORRIGAN HAS ADVISED HERE. I KNOW HE'S WRITTEN THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THEM IS THEY TEND TO GET THE YOUNGER JUVENILES WHILE THEY'RE BREEDING ADULTS SAY BREEDING AND THEY'RE JUST HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY CRUEL. SO ANYWAY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR WORK ON THIS. THANK YOU, SIR.  OKAY. THIS TIME WE WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DECISION BY THE CITY ADMINISTRATION.  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE AS PANELISTS. SO GOOD TO SEE FAMILIAR FACES HERE. WOULD ALLOW GUYS WOULD LIKE TO DO SOME INTROS AND OPENING STATEMENTS. YES. GOOD ONE. I'LL START ON DIANE. I WAS CHIEF OF OPERATIONS SO THANK YOU CHAIRMAN PEPEN, COUNCIL PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE AND ALL MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL . THANK YOU ALL FOR THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING ON THIS ISSUE AND SO MANY OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE A DEEP IMPACT ON THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE CITY. THIS IS A TOPIC THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE MAYOR. THAT'S WHY THE MAYOR HELP WANTED US TO FORM THIS BOSTON RODENT ACTION PLAN WORKING GROUP. IF WE BROUGHT EVERY MEMBER OF THE WORKING GROUP HERE WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FIT ON THEIR NOT ENOUGH SEATS HERE BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE SO FULLY ENGAGED ON THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC RIGHT NOW OUR CO-CHAIR RYAN WOODS, THE HEAD OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT, HE'S NOW HERE WITH US TODAY BUT HE'S WATCHING LIVE AND OTHER MEMBERS.  THE WATER AND SEWER COMMISSION, THE HOUSING AUTHORITY, THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.  I CAN GO ON AND ON BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THIS IS AN ALL HANDS ON DECK TYPE OF ISSUE BECAUSE ALTHOUGH RATS LOVE BIG CITIES, THE FEELING IS NOT MUTUAL AND A PART OF THAT IS ALSO FOR US TO REALLY LOOK AT ALL THE TOOLS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE WORKING IN COLLABORATION. PUBLIC EDUCATION HAS BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE IS IMPORTANT AND THAT'S WHY I ALSO WANT TO COMMEND THE PREVIOUS PANEL AND ALSO THE FOLKS WHO GAVE PUBLIC TESTIMONY BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT THAT WE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS ALL HANDS ON DECK TYPE OF THING. THIS IS NOT JUST A CITY SOLUTION, IT'S A COMMUNITY SOLUTION AND WE NEED TO TAKE ALL OF THE TOOLS AND INNOVATIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE CAN POISON THAT WE ALL HAVE THIS PROBLEM. WE NEED TO BE WORKING ON IT FROM ALL FRONTS AND INCLUDING CONTAINERIZATION AND LOOKING AT INNOVATIVE METHODS THAT ARE THAT ARE BEING EMPLOYED. WE ARE CERTAINLY LOOKING AT THIS AMONG OTHER TOOLS AND YOU KNOW AT THIS POINT WE ARE STILL EVALUATING AND LOOKING FOR MORE INFORMATION.  SOME OF THE CITIES THAT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED WHO ARE CURRENTLY USING CONTRACEPTIVE WE'VE WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO THEM, WE'VE BEEN GATHERING INFORMATION SO WE'RE CERTAINLY OPEN TO TO ALL OF THE THINGS THAT COULD BE SUCCESSFUL IN THIS ENDEAVOR. SO I'M GOING TO STOP HERE AND TURN IT OVER TO COMMISSIONER INSPECTIONAL SERVICES.  TANIA DEL RIO THANK YOU CHIEF.  GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS TANIA DEL RIO. I'M COMMISSIONER AT THE INSPECTIONAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT CITY OF BOSTON AND LIKE THE CHIEF DID I ALSO WANT TO THANK THE PREVIOUS PANEL AND THE COUNCIL FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.  THIS IS A METHOD THAT WE ARE MONITORING AND LOOKING AT VERY CLOSELY AS THE SCIENCE BEHIND IT DEVELOPS.  SO FOR US GETTING GETTING A SENSE OF WHAT THE EXPERIENCE ON THE GROUND HAS BEEN AND JAMAICA PLAIN IN HAVING THE THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY BE AWARE OF THAT TOO IS IS VERY IMPORTANT AND AGAIN THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE CLOSELY WATCHING. I DO WANT JOHN TO DISCUSS THE MORE TECHNICAL AND REALLY GET INTO THE WEEDS OF THIS BUT I DID WANT TO JUST FROM THE OUTSET NAME THAT I USE THIS HAS ALREADY PHASED OUT THE USE OF THE ANTI-COAGULANT RODENTICIDES WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SEWER BAITING BECAUSE THERE ARE NO APPROVED PRODUCTS FOR SEWER USAGE.  THE CITY PROGRAM COVERS PUBLIC SPACES. WE WE DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT ALSO HOW TO WORK WITH IN CONJUNCTION WITH ALL THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS WHICH IS WHERE WE SEE THE BULK OF THE ANTI COAGULANT RODENTICIDE USAGE IN THE CITY.  I WANTED TO ALSO SHARE WITH THEM FOR BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE AND WROTE AN ACTION PLAN GROUP. WE DO WANT TO WORK ON PREVENTION, EDUCATION COORDINATION AND INTERVENTION.  AS FAR AS PREVENTION IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT BUT I WANT TO EMPHASIZE IT AGAIN PUBLIC EDUCATION AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO CONTROL THE POPULATION BY HAVING BETTER WASTE MANAGEMENT PRACTICES CHANGING OUR THE WAY WE BEHAVE. AS THE PREVIOUS PANEL SAID IS GOING TO HAVE THE HIGHEST ROI SIMPLY SAID SO WE ARE BEHIND THE 100% COORDINATION IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT TWO THE CONVERSATION AMONG CITY DEPARTMENTS THE CONVERSATION AMONG CITIES THAT ARE BATTLING THE SAME HYDRA, THE SAME ISSUE AND ALSO THE COORDINATION BETWEEN THE PUBLIC SECTOR AND ALL OF OUR RESIDENTS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO TO GET US TOGETHER TO CHANGE THAT HUMAN BEHAVIOR.  AND THEN LASTLY INTERVENTION. I WOULD LEAVE YOU LEAVE YOU TO LEAD THE THE CONVERSATION AND ALL OF THOSE KIND OF TECHNICAL WHAT ARE THE BEST METHODS AND WHICH TOOLS I HIT THIS METAPHOR BUT WHICH TOOLS IN THE TOOLBOX SHOULD WE ACTUALLY BE USING MORE OR WHICH LEVER SHOULD WE PULL? SO I AM EXCITED TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION TO REMAIN A PART OF THE CONVERSATION. AND WITH THAT I'LL INTRODUCE MY COLLEAGUE JOHN OELRICH, OUR ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES DIVISION AND CO-CHAIR OF THE BOSTON ROAD AN ACTION PLAN WORKING GROUP A MOUTHFUL. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER JOHN RICK THE COMMISSIONER OF ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES.  IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE THIS MORNING. THANK YOU FOR THE COUNCIL FOR YOUR CONTINUED PARTNERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE. MY DIVISION WE HAVE 14 LICENSE INSPECTORS WHO ARE LICENSED TO DO PEST CONTROL. WE COVER 22 WARDS ACROSS THE CITY. WE DO PEST CONTROL IN PUBLIC PARKS, PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND PUBLIC WAYS.  IN JUNE MAY WILL LAUNCH THE BOSTON ROAD IN ACTION PLAN WHICH WAS THE COORDINATION OF CITY DEPARTMENTS.  WE HAVE LOOKED AT ALL OF OUR OPERATIONS HOW EACH DEPARTMENT IS AFFECTING RODENT POPULATION ,IDENTIFYING THE CHALLENGES MAINLY AROUND SANITATION AND WASTE AND WHAT CONTROL METHODS WE CAN USE THAT ARE MOST EFFECTIVE.  AS THE COMMISSIONER SAID, WE HAVE PHASED OUT SECOND GENERATION ANTICOAGULANTS EXCEPT IN SEWER BAITING.  SO CURRENTLY ONCE THE ROAD AN ACTION PLAN CAME OUT THE RECOMMENDATION WHICH WAS A STRONG RECOMMENDATION WAS TO NOT USE SECOND GENERATION ANTICOAGULANTS.  WE IMMEDIATELY REMOVE THEM FROM OUR TRUCKS AND THE MAJORITY OF THE SURFACE BAITING AND TREATMENT THAT WE USE IS CARBON MONOXIDE AND CARBON DIOXIDE.  CARBON MONOXIDE AS A MACHINE CALLED THE BORE REX AS A HOLES PUMPS CARBON MONOXIDE INTO THE BURROWS EXCEEDS THE THE ROAD IN THE BURROW NO NO CHANCE OF SECONDARY POISONING. THE SECOND IS A TANK CARBON DIOXIDE SIMILAR TO, YOU KNOW, DRY ICE WHICH IS FROZEN CARBON DIOXIDE.  DRY ICE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CHALLENGE SINCE THEY THEY LABELED THAT PRODUCT AND SO THIS WAS THE SOLUTION SO SIMILAR TO THE BORAX WE USE GOVERNMENT DIOXIDE PUMPING IN TO THE BURROW AND KILLS THE RODENT IN THE BURROW NO CHANCE OF SECONDARY POISONING.  THE CARBON DIOXIDE ALLOWS US TO BE CLOSER TO A STRUCTURE AN OCCUPIED STRUCTURE. SO CARBON MONOXIDE THERE IS A TEN FOOT LIMIT FROM AN OCCUPIED STRUCTURE. CARBON DIOXIDE YOU CAN USE IT RIGHT UP TO THE BUILDING SO THAT WE HAVE FULL COVERAGE WITH THOSE TWO METHODS WHERE WE DON'T NEED TO USE RODENTICIDE.  WE ALSO DO NIGHT TRAPPING IN AREAS OF HEAVY ACTIVITY ESPECIALLY IN PARKS AND COMMUNICATION WITH THE PUBLIC EDUCATION. I KNOW THAT THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT LANGUAGE WE ALL OF EDUCATIONAL MATERIALS IN SIX LANGUAGES AND I THINK WE'RE MOVING TO THE LIVING LANGUAGES SO WE WE DON'T OFTEN WE I THINK WE HAVE PRETTY GOOD COVERAGE AS FAR AS LANGUAGE ACCESS AND WITH OUR CONSTITUENT SERVICE TEAM TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ACCESS AND WE'RE COMMUNICATING WITH THE PUBLIC.  SINCE JUNE WE HAVE CONDUCTED 30 PLUS THEY WOULD WALKTHROUGHS TO IDENTIFY ISSUES, ALLOW NEIGHBORS TO POINT TO CHALLENGES AND ADDRESS THEM RIGHT ON SITE. OUR MAIN FUNCTION IS THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE SEATS ENTRY CODE SO THE MAJORITY OF OUR WORK IS GOING OUT IDENTIFYING VIOLATIONS OF THE CODE AND WRITING A VIOLATION. WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IS WE WRITE THE VIOLATION. IT'S SERVED BY A CONSTABLE FROM THE DATE OF SERVICE. THEY HAVE SEVEN DAYS TO CORRECT THAT VIOLATION AND THE PROPERTY OWNER IF THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN THEY ARE SENT TO AN ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING AND THEN IT'S 48 HOURS IN COURT SO THAT COVERS ANYTHING FROM WROTE AN ACTIVITY TO IMPROPER STORAGE OF TRASH AND JUST GENERAL SANITATION ISSUES.  SO WITH THAT AND THE COORDINATION WITH THE BOSTON WROTE AN ACTION PLAN I AM PRETTY EXCITED TO TO MOVE FORWARD IN THE COORDINATION.  I ALSO MET WITH THE GOOD WORKS TEAM GREAT TEAM. I MET WITH THEM AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT OF THAT PROJECT AND GOT TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH DR. MAYA.  VERY INTERESTING STUFF AND REVIEWED THE DATA THAT WENT ON WALKTHROUGHS WITH ELINA A COUPLE OF TIMES AND WHATEVER TOOLS WORK TO REDUCE RODENT POPULATION.  I'M INTERESTED IN ESPECIALLY IF IF THEY REDUCE THE RISK OF HARM TO TO WILDLIFE.  SO I APPRECIATE THE FORMAL PANEL I APPRECIATE THE PARTNERSHIP OF THE COUNCIL . IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE.  THANKS. THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THE THREE OF YOU FOR THAT. AGAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE WORK THAT YOU ALL DO. I THROUGHOUT MY TENURE HERE AT CITY COUNCIL HAVE NOTHING BUT GREAT EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH ALL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT TO MY DISTRICT AND TAKING CARE OF ALL THE RESIDENTS THAT HAVE REACHED OUT TO US THIS TIME. LIKE TO GO TO QUESTIONS FROM MY COLLEAGUES STARTING WITH CO-SPONSOR MADAM PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE. THANK YOU MR CHAIR AND THANK YOU TO THE ADMINISTRATION FOR BEING HERE JOHN AT YOUR GREAT IN ALL THE WORK THAT YOU DO. THANK YOU FOR BEING OPEN TO WHATEVER STRATEGIES WORK AND FOR ALL YOU DO ALL THINGS RIGHT IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.  QUESTION REGARDING THE PILOT IN JP AND YOU SAID YOU WENT ON WALKS AND THAT YOU'VE GONE TO ONE OF THE DATA WITH DR. MAYOR. IS THERE IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE IN THAT DATA TO BE ENCOURAGED THAT THIS IS A PILOT THAT SHOULD BE EXPANDED AND THAT WE SHOULD BE FURTHER IMPLEMENTING THROUGHOUT THE CITY? SO THE DATA BASICALLY IS BASED ON CONSUMPTION AND IN THE WALKS AND CONVERSATION WITH SOME OF THE OTHER NEIGHBORS THERE WAS CONCERN THAT THEY ACTUALLY SAW AN INCREASE IN ACTIVITY. SO MORE EVIDENCE THAT THE DATA THERE'S ACTUAL REDUCTION IN IN POPULATION I KNOW THAT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF COMMUNITY GARDENS THAT THAT USED IT THAT DIDN'T HAVE SUCCESS. I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS OPEN POPULATIONS AND HOW DO WE HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THAT?  I THINK DR. MAYA CAN CAN PROVE THAT HER PRODUCT WORKS RIGHT? BUT HOW DO WE USE IT IN A CITY WITH AN OPEN POPULATION IN A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE JP OR A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE BRIGHTON?  WHAT IS THE BEST STRATEGY AND WHAT OTHER TOOLS CAN WE USE WITH THAT PRODUCT TO MAKE SURE IT'S SUCCESSFUL? THANK YOU. IF I MAY. YES.  YEAH. WE ALSO WENT AHEAD AND CHECKED FOR AS JOHN SAID, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO MEASURE THE BASELINE POPULATION OF THE AREA BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE RODENTS ARE. IT'S HOW TO YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T CONDUCT A SIMPLE CENSUS.  INTERESTING TO HEAR ABOUT THE CAMERA METHOD FOR TRACKING THEM. WE WANT TO LEARN A LITTLE MORE HOWEVER, ARE WE OUR BEST PROXY RIGHT NOW WE ARE WORKING ON BETTER DATA MODELS WITH A COUPLE OF STATISTICIANS BUT OUR PROXY AT THE MOMENT FOR THIS DATA IS 311 COMPLAINTS WE DID GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THEM AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL AND JP AND AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL IN THE PLACES WHERE WHERE THIS PILOT WAS CONDUCTED AND UNFORTUNATELY WE DIDN'T SEE A DOWNWARD TREND. SO LAST YEAR IN 2023 WE DID HAVE A TOTAL OF 82 COMPLAINTS FROM THE AREA VERSUS 2024 WHERE WE HAD 154. SO IT'S ALMOST DOUBLE AND THE PRECINCT LEVEL EVEN THOUGH THE END IS VERY SMALL WE THINK IT'S LIKE 5 TO 10 COMPLAINTS. WE ALSO SAW AN UPWARD TREND SO AGAIN NOT A PERFECT PROXY BUT THE BEST WE HAVE IS NOT SHOWING A DOWNWARD TREND AT THE MOMENT . OKAY. THANK YOU. I WANT TO ASK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT AND IT'S BEEN TOUCHED ON BY SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES. I KNOW COUNCILOR BREADON LED THE EFFORT ON INCREASING FINES ON ABSENTEE LANDLORDS BECAUSE KNOW THAT OPEN DUMPSTERS ARE BASICALLY A BUFFET FOR FOR RATS AND FOR RODENTS.  WE HAVE WE'VE BEEN DOING JOHN YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN GOOD TO REMOVE THAT HAD A CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE ALONG WITH OTHERS WITH JOHN BLACKMORE AND OTHERS IN GOING AFTER ABSOLUTELY OURS BUT HAVE WE SEEN IS A RAT COORDINATED RESPONSE THAT YOU'RE A CO-CHAIR OF ? I'VE BEEN DOING WORK ON THE ABSENTEE LANDLORD END OF THINGS ON OPEN DUMPSTERS, ON THE THINGS THAT ARE THE BIGGEST ISSUES WHEN WE COME WHEN IT COMES TO OUR MULTIPLYING RAT POPULATION. I WOULD SAY THAT THE GROUP IS LOOKING AT ALL THINGS TRASH WHETHER IT'S ENFORCEMENT AND OR CONTAINERIZATION. IT IS A MAIN FOCUS.  TRASH IS OUR NUMBER ONE FOOD SOURCE FOR RODENTS.  FOOD IS THE MAIN DRIVER OF A GROWING POPULATION OF THE CITY SO NO FOOD, NO RATS IS WHAT DR. CORRIGAN SAYS.  YEAH. AND SO FINDING WAYS WHETHER THAT YOU KNOW, FINES IS A GOOD WAY TO MOTIVATE FOLKS TO TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR, ITS HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND HOW DO WE CHANGE THAT SO THE EFFORT IS IN EDUCATION, IT'S IN TRYING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CHALLENGES IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THEY HAVE CHALLENGES AROUND TRASH STORAGE AND HOW THEY PUT THEIR TRASH OUT SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE BEING LOOKED AT AND WORKED ON. THANK YOU. I JUST HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION FOR THIS ROUND.  OTHER CITIES HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT LIKE USING DOGS DOGS THAT ARE VACCINATED AGAINST THE DISEASE THAT RATS CARRY SOME OF THEM ARE BEEN DOING ARE BEING LED BY THE CITIES THEMSELVES I THINK CHICAGO I WAS AT GEORGETOWN HOMES AND THEY WERE THEY WERE TELLING ME ABOUT THIS I'M IN HYDE PARK AND AND THEN OTHERS LIKE I THINK IT'S D.C. IT'S LIKE THE CITIZENS THEMSELVES RESIDENTS WHO OWN A CERTAIN BREED OF DOG WHO ARE GOING OUT TO REALLY FEND AGAINST THE RODENT POPULATION. JUST WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR TAKE ON THAT. IT'S IT'S VERY EFFECTIVE IN A SMALL AREA LIKE THERE'S A COMPANY OUT OF D.C. CALLED MULVANEY'S COMPANY. I DID MEET WITH HIM AND GO TO CAMBRIDGE PUBLIC WORKS WHERE THEY USE THEM FOR WHERE THEY STORE THEIR TRASH TRUCKS.  THE DOGS ARE VERY EFFECTIVE AT MITIGATING RODENTS ESPECIALLY IN A IN A CERTAIN AREA. SO WE HAD MULTIPLE CITY DEPARTMENTS THERE THAT THAT SAW THAT THAT TREATMENT AND AND THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IF IT IF IT WILL WORK IN A DIFFERENT OF THE CITY. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD AND IT GOT TO MURPHY'S NEXT. OKAY. SO YES, IT IS COUNCILOR MURPHY, UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY ON A FEW QUESTIONS AND I KNOW PUBLIC TESTIMONY I FORGOT YOUR NAME BUT THE WOMAN FROM BRIGHTON WAS SAYING HOW YOU KNOW, SHE LIVED IN A RAT INFESTED APARTMENT BUT SHE ALSO HAD A VERY PROACTIVE LANDLORD WHO WAS TRYING SO ON LIKE 2311 FINES ON THE SANITARY CODE AND I'M NOT SAYING IN HER CASE AT ALL BUT WHEN I GO OUT WALK MY DOG AND I SEE THAT SOMETIMES IT'S JUST INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTS WHO ARE CHOOSING AND IT'S NOT JUST ON TRASH THEY MAY BE CHICKEN BONES, THINGS ARE THROWN OUT OR LEFT ON THE STREET. ARE THERE FINES WE CAN GIVE TO INDIVIDUAL?  SO DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE TIED TO THE HOMEOWNER IN THE HOUSE?  SO CURRENTLY ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES VIOLATIONS THEY'RE NOT FINES. WE WE DON'T HAVE ANY FINES ATTACHED TO OUR VIOLATIONS. THEY'RE JUST A REMEDIAL FINE ASKING FOR YOU TO CORRECT IT CODE ENFORCEMENT I BELIEVE HAVE TO ISSUE TO THE PROPERTY OWNER . HOUSING INSPECTORS I BELIEVE HAVE SOME ABILITY TO ADDRESS TENANTS IN THE BUILDING BUT IT'S LIKE WHAT POWER DOES THE LANDLORD HAVE IF THEY HAVE TENANTS RIGHT. IN THAT CASE WHO AREN'T FOLLOWING EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE TRYING THEIR BEST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE PROPER BARRELS, THEY STORE THEIR TRASH PROPERLY BUT YEAH THEY THEY COULD REACH OUT TO ISDA HOUSING AND THEY COULD HELP THEM WITH THAT. OKAY THANK YOU. THE PILOT IT WAS SAID HOW THEY'RE USING YOU KNOW HEAVY APPLICATION OVERSATURATED SO THEY'RE MAYBE THE DATA IS IN SHOWING THEY'RE GETTING GREAT RESULTS BUT HOW COULD WE REALISTICALLY SEE THAT GO THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND MAKING SURE THAT YOU KNOW EQUITABLY THAT ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS IF THIS IS SOMETHING OR IF ANY IDEAS WE'RE HAVING THAT WE'RE NOT PICKING AND CHOOSING NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE'RE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE COULD EXPAND THIS OUT. DO WE HAVE THE BANDWIDTH AND WHAT WOULD THE CITY NEED TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE COULD HANDLE GOING FORWARD?  I THINK THAT WE WE FIRST HAVE TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY SEEING IT REDUCE ROLLING POPULATION WHICH I THINK THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT THAT IT IS EFFECTIVE AND MAKING SURE IT WORKS IN AN OPEN POPULATION LIKE A CITY AND THEN IDENTIFYING AREAS TO START THAT HAVE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE. I THINK WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE PLACES WHERE WE HAVE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE BUT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. I'M JUST THINKING OF OTHER YOU KNOW, MAYBE STARTED OUT AS PILOTS LIKE THE SPEED HUMPS BECAUSE EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD IS GOING TO SAY THAT THEY WANT THEM AND THAT THEY ALL HAVE SPEEDING ISSUES BUT WE START IN CERTAIN AREAS AND THEN AS AN AT LARGE COUNCILOR I DEFINITELY GET THOSE CONCERNS AND CALLS LIKE HEY, HOW COME IT'S HAPPENING THERE? HOW COME IT'S NOT COMING TO MY NEIGHBORHOOD? SO I'M JUST THINKING IN THIS CASE TOO WHERE THIS IS AN EXAMPLE THAT IF WE WERE TO DECIDE IT WORKED OR WE DECIDED SOMETHING ELSE WORKED AND I APPRECIATE THAT WE ARE STARTING IN A SMALL AREA TO TEST IT BUT IF IT WAS TO GO CITYWIDE, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS ARE GOING TO GET THE SAME AMOUNT OF SUPPORT? SO I CAN ANSWER THAT THE REPORT FROM THE BOSTON REACTION OUT OF BOSTON WROTE AN ACTION PLAN REPORT DOES ADVISES TO START WITH THE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE THE HIGHEST INCIDENCE OF THE PROBLEM SO WE ARE STARTING WITH THOSE HOTSPOTS AND THOSE HOTSPOTS MAY MOVE SO WE TRY TO START THERE AND TEST OUT THE DIFFERENT APPROACHES WITH THE INTENTION ALWAYS OF GOING CITYWIDE AND TREATING EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD THE SAME WAY WE ARE. WE ARE THINKING AGAIN THAT THE WASTE MANAGEMENT THAT TRYING TO GET ESPECIALLY THE RESIDENTIAL TRASH CONTAINERIZED IS GOING TO BE OUR HIGHEST ROI. BUT AS WE FIND NEW APPROACHES LIKE THIS ONE WE MIGHT START OR I GUESS AGAIN THE ADVICE WE GOT IS TO START IN THE HIGHEST INCIDENCE AREAS AND THEN EXPAND IF WE FIND THAT THEY'RE EFFECTIVE AND ARE WE BASING THAT ONLY ON 311 CALLS? I KNOW YOU HAVE MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGE AND VERY SMART DEDICATED TEAM BUT ARE WE ONLY BASING THAT THE HOTSPOTS FROM THAT DATA THAT IS THE MAIN DATA POINT I CAN START WELL I CAN DESCRIBE THE WORK THAT I MIGHT AND SO THAT'S OUR CURRENT BEST INFORMATION PLUS SOME WORK THAT DR. BOBBY CORRIGAN DID WHEN HE WAS OUT OBSERVATIONAL USING ALSO OUR INSPECTORS EXPERIENCE TO PUT TOGETHER WHAT HE WAS CALLING THE PRIORITY ACTION NEIGHBORHOODS. IN ADDITION.  WE WORKED WITH A GROUP OF MIT STUDENTS THAT ARE HELPING US CREATE A MODEL THAT PREDICTS WHERE RAT ACTIVITY MIGHT BE THAT WE HAVEN'T PICKED UP THROUGH 311 COMPLAINTS UNDERSTANDING THAT SOME OF THAT SOME NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE DIFFERENT BEHAVIORS AROUND COMPLETING IN 311 SO WHAT THEY DID IS THEY CREATED A BUNCH OF LIKE FAKE OBSERVATIONS SO THEY SAID OKAY LET'S SAY THERE WAS A COMPLAINT HERE EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T GET IT SEND INSPECTORS OUT AND SEE WHAT THEY SEE AND RIGHT NOW THEY'RE I WANT TO SEE IN THE MIDDLE OF OR WHAT SAID WE'RE IN THE SECOND PHASE OF COLLECTING DATA AND VALIDATION AND THEN FEEDING THAT DATA BACK INTO THE MODEL SO THAT IT IMPROVES SO THAT WE CAN FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT ABOUT THE OUTPUT. YEAH. SO TO SIMPLIFY IT, THE EXISTING MODEL MADE SOME PREDICTIONS. THEY WERE LIKE HERE'S A SPOT THAT BASED ON THE CONDITIONS AND THE TYPE OF SEWER THAT THEY HAVE AND THEY IT FITTED A LOT OF VARIABLES IN IN ADDITION TO THE COMPLAINT. HERE'S SPOT WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE RODENTS THAT YOU WON'T KNOW ABOUT WE'RE SENDING INSPECTORS OUT TO SEE IF THE MODEL IS CORRECT OR NOT TO VALIDATE THE MODEL AND IMPROVE IT AND THEN MOVE TOWARDS MORE OF A PROACTIVE RATHER THAN REACTIVE RESPONSE. BUT WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT WORK. IT'S NOT THERE YET.  ONE LAST STATEMENT WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE INCREASE OF 311 CALLS IN JAMAICA PLAIN, HAVE YOU THOUGHT THROUGH THAT MAYBE THAT'S RELATED TO THE INCREASED EDUCATION IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BEING MORE INVESTED AND INVOLVED AND KIND OF WATCHING OUT FOR RATS WHEN THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN REALLY THINKING ABOUT IT? AND ANY TIME I GO TO NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS IF IT'S ABOUT TRAFFIC, WHATEVER THE ISSUE AND WE'RE ALWAYS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE I THINK WE ALL DO IT LIKE CALL 311 LIKE YOU JUST SAID THAT IS THE CITY'S NUMBER ONE WAY TO TRACK IT SO THAT WHEN WE GET PEOPLE TO CALL AND THEN IT KIND OF SKEWS THE DATA SO JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE. YEAH AND THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT'S BEHIND MY COMMENTS TO COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE AROUND CALLING IT A PROXY. IT'S A VERY IMPERFECT PROXY FOR THE REASONS YOU JUST OUTLINED. SO RIGHT NOW THE BEST WE HAVE AS WE DEVELOP OUR PREDICTIVE MODEL I THINK THAT'LL BE A BETTER TOOL. WE'RE JUST WE'RE NOT DONE SO AT THE MOMENT IT COULD BE ANYTHING. IT COULD BE PEOPLE HAVE MORE EDUCATION AWARENESS, THEIR REPORTING AND USING THE TOOL MORE IT COULD BE COMPLAINTS ARE LOWERED BECAUSE THEY'RE WORKING WITH THEIR OWN PRIVATE PEST CONTROL AND IT'S VERY HARD FOR US TO KNOW PRIVATE PEST CONTROL TO WELL, THANK YOU. THANK YOU COUNCILOR FITZGERALD . THANK YOU, JEFF. I JUST DID ABOUT WHAT COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AND THANK YOU TO BRENDAN SHEEHAN COMPANY THAT'S ON THAT ONE AND ONE THING THAT HE HAD SAID THAT I'D KIND I THINK IT WOULD HELP PEOPLE IF ANYONE'S LISTENING INTO THIS RIGHT IT'S LIKE SOME PEOPLE JUST EXPECT HEY YOU GUYS HAVE TO COME AND SOLVE MY PROBLEM THAT I HAVE RIGHT AND I'M SURE YOU GUYS GOT A DEAL AND HE WAS EXPLAINING IT'S MORE ABOUT EDUCATING THE PEOPLE LIKE TO COUNCILOR MURFREESBORO ABOUT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WHAT YOU'RE DOING THAT'S CAUSING IT AND LIKE WE'RE NOT A SERVICE WE'RE NOT A FREE SERVICE THAT'S A RAT EXTERMINATION SERVICE FOR YOU GUYS WHICH I THINK IT UNFAIRLY SO IN MY MIND I WAS KIND OF LIKE THINKING OH, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD THAT'S WHAT I WOULD EXPECT. BUT SO I THINK THAT'S A GOOD DISTINCTION. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY BECAUSE WHEN HE SAID THAT IT KIND OF CLICKED BUT AROUND THIS YOU KNOW, THE BIRTH CONTROL STUFF, THE THE COST, THE MANPOWER IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WOULD WOULD WE HAVE TO GET ADDITIONAL FOLKS TO IMPLEMENT THIS OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE TAKEN ON IN HOUSE CURRENTLY OR IS THIS LIKE DOES A NEW DEPARTMENT GET CREATED WITHIN ESD OR THE LIKE? DO WE KNOW HOW THAT WORKS YET? I, I DON'T I WOULD IMAGINE THAT ANY ADDITION OF A PROJECT THE SCALE WE WOULD NEED YOU KNOW ADDITIONAL HELP. OKAY FROM THE CURRENT OPERATION AND SEE FOLKS WE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE FOLKS IN IN DC DEREK DASILVA FROM MY OFFICE SPOKE WITH THEM AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THEIR PROGRAM I BELIEVE IT THAT THE ROUGH NUMBER THAT THEY HAD BUDGETED FOR A PILOT WAS ABOUT 300,000. THEY SPENT ABOUT 25,000 AND THEY DISCONTINUED THE PROGRAM JUST BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE IT WAS VERY LABOR INTENSIVE AND IT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THEY WERE SEEING THE RESULTS. AND THAT'S JUST FROM OUR CONVERSATION WITH THEM.  BUT WE ARE STILL TALKING TO OTHER CITIES AND WE'RE DOING THE SAME.  THAT'S THE BIRTH CONTROL SO THAT'S THE BIRTH CONTROL ONE. SO THEY FELT THEY DIDN'T SEE THE RESULTS. SO WE BUT WE DID HEAR FROM SOMEBODY ELSE TODAY THAT WE HAVE THAT HERE AT LEAST. RIGHT. SO THERE'S I MEAN I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE LIKE YOU SAID SO THERE COULD BE REPORTS THAT IT WORKS AND REPORTS THAT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT THE GREATEST BUT JUST WANT TO READ ABOUT THE INITIAL INITIAL COST THIS AND SORT OF YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO EITHER WRAP IT UP WHAT THAT MIGHT HAVE TO DO IN THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR AND YEAH, I MEAN THERE'S THE COST OF THE PROGRAM AND THEN THERE'S ALSO LIKE THERE'S SOME STAFF COST RELATED I THINK DC MENTIONED THAT THEY HAD TO HAVE GO TO EACH BOX LIKE ON A WEEKLY BASIS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS SUFFICIENTLY SUPPLIED. YEAH THAT'S I THINK WITH THE COLLECTION PORTION OF THIS DO I LIKE IT'S HARD ENOUGH AND WE'RE SPREAD THIN ENOUGH TO HAVE PEOPLE GO OUT AND SORT OF DO THE WORK THEY'RE CURRENTLY ASKED TO DO. I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT THE BURDEN WAS TO BE ON THAT. WE ALSO HAVE TO WEEKLY COLLECT THE DEAD RODENTS AND TEST THEM AND YOU KNOW THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. SO BE HAPPY TO HEAR ABOUT THAT AS WE SORT OF AS YOU GUYS DIG DEEPER BUT THAT'S ALL IN MY END THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU GUYS DO AND THANK YOU JIM THANK YOU COUNSELOR COUNSELOR RUBBER THANK YOU CHAIR THANK YOU.  YOUR TESTIMONY I GUESS JUST SO IT MY I'M CORRECT THAT BIRTH CONTROL IS NOT PART OF THE THE ROAD AN ACTION PLAN SO CORRECT IT WASN'T NOT AT THE MOMENT YEAH OKAY IT WASN'T INCLUDED IN THE ACTUAL REPORT.  OKAY AND IS THAT ARE YOU STILL LOOKING INTO THAT. YEAH SO THE IT'S NOT AMONG THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE RECEIVED FROM THE REPORT NOT AMONG THESE NOT AMONG THEM.  WHAT WE ARE DOING IS LIKE I SAID MONITORING AS THE SCIENCE DEVELOPED THE COST INVOLVED SINCE THE PRODUCT IS STILL IN THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT PHASE WE HAVE BEEN OBSERVING MONITORING IT BECAUSE IF IT PROVES EFFECTIVE, IF IT PROVES LIKE IT'S SOMETHING WE DEFINITELY ADOPT WE WANT TO DO THAT. AT THE SAME TIME WE WANT TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF TAXPAYER MONEY AND IF IT'S STILL IN THAT RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT PHASE WE DON'T WANT TO BE KIND OF THE PEOPLE EXPERIMENTING IT IF WE'VE RECEIVED MIXED REPORTS. SO WE'RE EXCITED AND INTERESTED IN WATCHING IT. IT'S NOT A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION THAT WE RECEIVED . SO THAT'S THAT'S KIND OF THE STAGE WE'RE OUT WITH IT. OKAY. AND THEN MAYBE YOU ADDRESSED THIS EARLIER BUT SO HAVE YOU HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHER CITIES ABOUT THEIR APPROACH TO TO BIRTH CONTROL AND HOW THEY PLAN TO UTILIZE IT ? YEAH, YOU DO. YEAH, I JUST MENTIONED WE DID SPEAK TO WASHINGTON D.C. AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE AND THE DISCONTINUED THEIR THE PILOT PROGRAM I BELIEVE WE ALSO ARE IN COMMUNICATION WITH DR. CORRIGAN HELPED US TO EVALUATE THE NEW YORK EXPERIENCE WITH IT SO AT THIS POINT AS HE WAS STATED IT'S AN OPEN QUESTION SO IT'S STILL SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT AND LEARNED TODAY AT THE HEARING THAT NEWTON IS ON THE LIST. SO WE'RE GOING TO ADD THEM TO THE LIST OF PEOPLE TO DO OUTREACH WITH.  SO IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD JOHN OR WHO ELSE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS. YEAH AND I'VE SPOKEN TO DR. CORRIGAN WHO HAS SPOKEN TO OTHER CITIES SEATTLE DC I THINK NEW YORK HAS TRIED IT A COUPLE OF TIMES AND THE RESULTS ARE INCONCLUSIVE. THEY'RE UNSURE.  OKAY. DO YOU DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LOCATION WHERE WE COULD TRY A PILOT THAT MAYBE YOU'D BE INTERESTED? YEAH, I THINK I COULD WORK WITH WITH THE GROUP OF FOLKS TO TO IDENTIFY THE AREAS WHERE THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD DO WOULD BE MOST EFFECTIVE TO START.  OKAY, JUST TO ADD A COUPLE OF POINTS ONE WE DID ALSO SEND STUFF YOU WERE SAYING BUT STAFF DID ATTEND THE NEW YORK CITY RENT SUMMIT TO NETWORK WITH AS MANY AMERICAN CITIZENS. WE'RE THERE TO LEARN ABOUT THOSE METHODS. NONE OF THE I THINK NONE OF THE MOST SALIENT TAKEAWAYS WERE AROUND THE THE PRODUCT.  WHAT'S YOUR OTHER QUESTION THAT IDENTIFIED JUST LOCATIONS IN THE LOCATIONS? YEAH, WE DID IDENTIFY SOME NEIGHBORHOODS AS HOTSPOTS INITIALLY SO THOSE INCLUDE DOWNTOWN THE HAYMARKET NORTH IN BOSTON COMMON AREA SOME PARTS OF DORCHESTER, ROXBURY, BACK BAY AND AUSTIN BRAIN OKAY AND THEN AGAIN I APOLOGIZE IF YOU COULD ADDRESS THIS ALREADY BUT IS THERE ANY PROGRESS IN, YOU KNOW, STEEL CONTAINERS FOR FOR NEIGHBORHOODS ANY PROPOSALS I KNOW NEW YORK IS CONTROVERSIAL. YOU KNOW THE PROPOSAL I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THERE'S GOING TO TAKE UP LIKE A 100 PLUS THOUSAND PARKING SPOTS FOR CONTAINERS ANY ANYTHING ON THE HORIZON HERE.  SO WE ARE LOOKING AT ALL THINGS TRASH. AS I SAID BEFORE,  CONTAINERIZATION IS A IS A HUGE PART OF REDUCING ROLL IN POPULATION. SO WE ARE WE ARE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT IT BUT THERE'S NO PROPOSAL.  OKAY THANK YOU. THANK YOU JEFF. THANK YOU COUNCILOR BREADON THANK YOU AND THANK YOU MR CHAIR AND THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE THIS MORNING. I HAD A QUESTION THE FOOD COMPOSTING PROGRAM, THE GREEN BUCKETS I'VE JUST DONE A RODENT WALK RECENTLY AND SOMEBODY FROM CITY WORKER WAS SAYING IT WAS A BIT SKEPTICAL ABOUT HOW EFFECTIVE THAT WAS. AND SO WHAT IS THERE ANY BECAUSE THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO TAKE FOOD OUT THE TRASH CANS AND THAT THAT'S AND SEPARATED AND COMPOST AND PUT IT TO GOOD USE BUT TAKE FOOD OUT OF THE TRASH CYCLE ANY ANY FEEDBACK ON HOW EFFECTIVE THAT IS AND I LOVE DOING MY GREEN BUCKET. I WAS DISCOURAGED TO HEAR THAT IT WASN'T MAKING AN IMPACT. I WOULD DISAGREE.  I THINK THAT REMOVING FOOD WASTE FROM TRASH A HUGE STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I'VE ALSO NOT SEEN ANY ANY REPORTS OF RODENTS GETTING INTO THOSE GREEN BUCKETS. NO NO RING REPORTS THAT IT WAS CAUSING RODENT ACTIVITY.  SO REMOVING FOOD WASTE FROM TRASH AND THEN PUTTING IT IN A GOOD CONTAINER REDUCES THE CHANCE THAT IT WILL BECOME A FOOD SOURCE FOR RODENTS AND YOU KNOW, ADDRESSING THE ISSUE AND I WOULD ADD THAT THE REPORT DOES MENTION THAT EXPANDING THE PROGRAM WOULD BE QUITE HELPFUL AND I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT MOMENT TO INVITE RESIDENTS TO SIGN UP BECAUSE I SAW I SAW THAT SOME SPOTS MIGHT BE MIGHT BE AVAILABLE TO SIGN UP FOR THAT PROGRAM.  I LOVE MINE TOO I THINK.  AND ALISON BRIAN, ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS IS THAT WE HAVE LOTS OF BUILDINGS THAT ARE MORE THAN SIX UNITS SO AND THE OTHER THE OTHER ONE I TALKED TO I THINK WE NEED A POLICY THAT WITH NEW BUILDINGS THAT WE NEED TO BE MORE PROACTIVE AND IN ASKING NEW BUILDINGS TO SET UP TRASH DISPOSAL AND GOING AWAY FROM YOU KNOW, OPEN DUMPSTERS AND ALL THAT FUN STUFF AND ALSO FOOD COMPOSTING AND NEW BUILDINGS IS SOMETHING WHERE YOU KNOW, THEY SAY THERE'S NO REGULATIONS, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT. SO WHY WOULD WE DO IT? BUT I THINK YOU'RE TAKEN REALLY IN A PROACTIVE APPROACH TO ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS THAT WE'RE BUILDING AND IT REALLY YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE BOTTOM LINES LIKE I'M REALLY IMPRESSED WITH THE NUMBERS LOOK THIS THIS THIS THIS YOUNG WOMAN THAT WAS IN REHAB IT TO 2000 RATS IN A IN 12 MONTHS THAT'S A LOT OF RATS I THINK MY CONCERN IS THAT THE CITY IS DOING THE RIGHT THING TAKING OUT THE THE ANTI-COAGULANTS THE RODENT RODENTICIDES OUT OF THE OUT OF USE EXCEPT FOR IN SEWERS.  BUT YOU KNOW EVERY OTHER HOMEOWNER OR LANDLORD AND AND PEST CONTROL COMPANY IS PROBABLY CONTINUE TO USE THOSE PRODUCTS THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL BECAUSE WE'RE ACTUALLY KILLING THE ANIMALS THAT ARE GOING TO HELP US SOLVE THE PROBLEM. SO UM IS THERE ANY DO WE HAVE ANY IMPACT ON WHAT PRIVATE HOUSEHOLDERS AND LANDLORDS CAN DO?  I THINK THE BEST WAY THAT WE CAN IMPACT RIGHT NOW IS IS EDUCATION LETTING FOLKS KNOW WHAT THOSE CHEMICALS THAT THE COMPANY USES YOU CAN REQUEST TO USE ALTERNATIVE RODENTICIDE.  THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES OUT THERE I KNOW THAT THAT THE PANEL MENTIONED A COUPLE OF THEM BUT THERE IS A VITAMIN D3 OUT THERE WHICH IS COMES IN A SOFT BAIT THAT IS OF A SECOND GENERATION ANTICOAGULANT AND THERE WERE THERE WERE OTHERS IN THE IN THE REPORT SO THAT WE'RE NOT TOTALLY ELIMINATING THE TOOL OF RODENTICIDE BUT THE SECOND GENERATION ANTICOAGULANT BECAUSE OF THE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT.  IT WAS RECOMMENDED IN THE REPORT THAT THAT WE SHOULD STOP USING IT. YEAH SO EDUCATION TO FOLKS GETTING THAT OUT THERE SO THAT THEY MAKE THE REQUEST OF THE A PEST CONTROL CONTRACTOR. YEAH.  I HAVE TO GO. I WILL. THANK YOU.  SO MY TIME COUNCILOR BREADON ALWAYS FINDS A WAY TO IGNITE MORE QUESTIONS IN MY HEAD. SO I'M GOING TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE QUESTION ABOUT THE COMPOST PROGRAM. DOES A CITY HAVE A PROGRAM FOR RESTAURANTS TO HAVE COMPOSTING BINS OUTSIDE OF THEIR BUSINESSES?  BECAUSE I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE HOTSPOTS ARE SEE A LOT OF THERE'S A LOT OF RESTAURANTS AND A LOT OF LOCAL BUSINESSES. IS THERE A CURRENT PROGRAM LIKE THAT AT THE MOMENT?  I DON'T KNOW. WE'LL HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU. YEAH, WE'RE NOT SURE. OKAY. OKAY. I MEAN THAT'S A GOOD IDEA WHERE IT'S MAYBE IT'S A BIGGER BEAN OR BEAN FOR A RESTAURANT TO BE ABLE TO COME COMPOST THEIR FOOD LEFTOVERS.  OKAY. SOME OF THE CHIEF IRISH YOU MENTIONED THAT D.C. WHEN YOU SPOKE TO THEM AND YOUR TEAM SPOKE TO THEM, THEY WERE THEY SO IT WASN'T EFFECTIVE BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WERE USING CONTRA PEST IN COMPARISON TO WHAT'S WHAT WAS SPOKEN ABOUT EARLIER TODAY. HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO ANYONE THAT HAS USED WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED TODAY LIKE THE GOOD BITES OR WOULD YOU BE OPEN TO POTENTIALLY DOING ANOTHER STUDY IN THE CITY OF BOSTON BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT CONTROL PATHS SOME GOOD BITES ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS THAT PERHAPS WILL HAVE DIFFERENT OUTCOMES YET NO YOU ARE CORRECT DC USE CONTRA PEST.  SEAN I'LL DEFER TO YOU. HAVE YOU TALKED TO ANYONE WHO IS USING THIS PARTICULAR PRODUCT?  I HAVE NOT EXCEPT OBSERVING THAT THE PILOT IN JP AND HOW BECAUSE HOW LONG WAS THE PILOT IN JP GOING FOR? IS IT STILL GOING? SO I MET WITH THEM AT SEVEN MONTHS I THINK I STARTED RIGHT INSIDE SINCE LAST SO I THINK IT WENT ON FOR FOR 12 MONTHS. 12 MONTHS. OKAY. OKAY BECAUSE I THINK THE WAY I VIEW THIS IS THIS IS THIS ISN'T THE SOLUTION, RIGHT?  WE CAN'T JUST DEPEND ON THIS. THIS IS A LONG TERM SOLUTION.  THIS IS WHERE WE CAN BALANCE OUT THE POPULATION OF RATS IN CITY OF BOSTON.  SO I FEEL LIKE IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE PILOTS AND MAYBE MORE OF A HOTSPOT OVER NEIGHBORHOOD ,MAYBE WE CAN SEE MORE CONCRETE NUMBERS.  I YOU WERE GIVEN THE NEIGHBORHOODS IN JP WAS ONE OF THEM. SO MAYBE IF WE GO TO THE NORTH END OR TO THE COMMONS AND DOWNTOWN WE COULD HAVE MORE EFFECTIVE NUMBERS. SO I'D BE OPEN TO FIGURING OUT HOW GOOD WE COULD START ANOTHER PILOT IN ONE OF THOSE AREAS WITH THE COLLEAGUES THAT REPRESENT THOSE DISTRICTS.  ONE OTHER QUESTION THAT I HAVE FOR YOU THIS IS MORE OF A NUMBERS QUESTION.  HOW MUCH DOES A CITY SPEND ON RAT POPULATION CONTROL METHODS ? SO CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION HOW MUCH DOES THE HUD DOES YOUR DEPARTMENT SPEND ON RAT RAT POPULATION CONTROL METHODS THAT THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.  I THINK AND JOHN MAY BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER ON HIS PROGRAM AT H.D. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO DO LIKE A WIDER SURVEY AMONG THE MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS WHO ARE ALSO EXPENDING FUNDS TOWARDS THE SAME AND TO JUST YEAH SO SORRY WE CAN GIVE YOU THE NUMBER BUT I CAN TELL YOU MAYBE MORE OF THE LINE ITEMS.  IT'S JOHN PLUS HIS STAFF YOUR 20 SOMETHING PEOPLE. YES. YEAH. AS CHIEF SAID, MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS PEOPLE'S BACK WATER, SEWER, ETC. ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE EFFORT SO WE'D HAVE TO REALLY DO A SURVEY AND QUANTIFY AND AS FAR AS EQUIPMENT YOU'RE USING BAIT THE BURROW ERECTS AND SO IT'S NINE $10,000 PER YEAR FOR EQUIPMENT SUPPLIES AND AND STAFF OF 21. BUT THERE'S ALSO 50 PLUS INSPECTORS THAT DEAL WITH RODENTS.  WE HAVE HEALTH INSPECTORS, RODENTS AND RESTAURANTS.  WE HAVE HOUSING INSPECTORS THAT ARE DOING INSIDE INTERIOR WORK ON HOME. SO SO OVERALL WHAT THE COST TO ADDRESS RODENT ACTIVITY IN THE CITY IS IS BIGGER THAN JUST MY MY DEPARTMENT. CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH. I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW HOW MUCH IN THE BIGGER PILOT WOULD COST AND THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET TO SEE HOW MUCH WE SHOULD BE ASKING FOR.  MAYBE THAT'S MORE FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH YOUR DEPARTMENT IN REGARDS TO DETAILS.  I DO HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION AND THIS IS MORE FOR THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL BECAUSE ANYONE'S INTERESTED. I WANT TO KNOW IF I'M I'M A RESIDENT RIGHT AND I SEE RATS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND MY HOUSE AND I REPORTED THE 311. WHAT IS THE PROCESS THAT IS TAKEN BY YOUR DEPARTMENT?  WHAT'S FROM GET IN MIGHT WANT TO REPORT TO HOPEFULLY ALLEVIATING THE ISSUE. SURE. SO WHEN YOU PUT IN YOUR COMPLAINT TO 311 IT'S FILTERED THROUGH THE 311 SYSTEM. IT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE HANDHELD OF THE AREA INSPECTOR . SO WE HAVE 14 INSPECTORS THAT COVER 22 WARDS WHOEVER THAT INSPECTOR IS THAT'S COVERING THAT AREA WILL GET THAT COMPLAINT ON HIS CUBE WITHIN 48 HOURS HE WILL RESPOND.  THE MORE DETAIL YOU CAN BE THE BETTER. SOMETIMES WE HAVE ANONYMOUS COMPLAINTS THAT SAY I SAW RATS ON MY STREET THAT CAN BE CHALLENGING. SO THEN WE RESPOND BACK WITH THE DIRECT CONTACT INFORMATION OF THE INSPECTOR AND ASK FOR MORE INFORMATION. BUT WITHIN 48 HOURS YOU'LL GET A RESPONSE OR AN INSPECTION. OKAY. THANK YOU. I KNOW MY TIME IS UP. I WONDER DO ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES I FOLLOW QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY ADMINISTRATION COUNCIL OR JUST A I THINK THIS IS THE OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED THIS ALREADY BUT WE'RE NOT WE'RE SAYING WE'D LIKE TO SEE MORE DATA AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COULD WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE OTHER METHODS THAT WE'RE ALREADY USING. BUT BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF IN OF A CONTAINED SPACE WHICH WE THINK IS DEPENDENT ON EITHER BEING ABLE TO REVIEW THE DATA OR ON ADVOCACY IT ALONE WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE CHARGING FOR WITH IT AS LIKE OUR RAT MITIGATION STRATEGY.  RIGHT. I THINK THIS THIS WHOLE APPROACH THAT WE HAVE TO DO TO ADDRESS RODENT ACTIVITY ACROSS THE CITY AND THAT'S WHY WE WE CAME UP WITH WAS TO MOVE AN ACTION PLAN.  BUT IT COULD BE A TOOL THAT WE USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH WITH THE OTHER STUFF THAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT AND JUST LIKE WELL AS IN MOST THINGS YOU DO YOU KNOW WELL MAYBE WE DON'T HAVE THE STRONGEST SET OF EVIDENCE THAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE BECAUSE IT IS BY VIDEO POPULATION.  BUT WE DO HEAR TESTIMONY FROM THE RESIDENT IN JAMAICA PLAIN AND FROM SOME PEOPLE THAT IT'S WORKING. SO I LOOK AT IT AS LIKE, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH WILL THIS COST THE CITY? IS OUR COST WORTH US INVESTING IN TO DO CONTINUED PILOTS ALONGSIDE EVERYTHING ELSE WE'RE DOING?  I DON'T HAVE THAT INTO RIGHT NOW I COULD WORK GO TO LINA LOOK LOOK AT THE DATA AND AND REVIEW IT AND SEE IF IT'S DOABLE. OKAY. THANK YOU.  I'M ASKING ABOUT YEAH, I HAD A QUESTION DURING THE BIG DIG. THEY HAD A YOU HAD A REALLY COORDINATED APPROACH TO RODENT CONTROL AND ONE OF THE ISSUES WAS REALLY INCREASE THE BIOLOGICAL RODENT CONTROL INTRODUCING MORE RED TAILED HAWKS AND THAT SEEMED TO HAVE ANY THAT SEEMED TO BE PRETTY EFFECTIVE LIKE THAT'S REDUCING THE USE OF THE DIDN'T USE THE USE OF POISONS BUT ALSO THE SPIN OFF EFFECT WAS REDUCED TO A POPULATION OF PIGEONS IN THE CITY AS WELL. AND UM ANY ANY THOUGHTS ON I REALLY FEEL THAT THE BIOLOGICAL CONTROLS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT BUT IF WE CONTINUE TO USE THE THE I'M NOT SAYING THE CITY IS NOT USING THEM BUT PRIVATE HOMEOWNERS WILL CONTINUE TO USE THESE POISONS THAT ARE KILLING ARE THE PREDATORS THAT ARE KILLING THE RATS THEN IT'S SORT OF A SELF-DEFEATING CYCLE.  SO I DON'T KNOW OF THE RED TAILED HAWK PROGRAM FOR THE BIG DIG. I KNOW THERE WAS A REHAB PROGRAM WHERE WE STARTED TO SEE MORE ROADKILL HAWKS BUT I CAN REACH OUT TO BRUCE CALVIN WHO WAS OUR RAT GUY. I DID SPEAK WITH HIM A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO ABOUT HIS PAPER AND THE WORK HE DID DURING THE BIG DIG.  HE'S MADE HIMSELF AVAILABLE TO REVIEW. WE DO USES DOCUMENTS HE REALLY CREATED URBAN PEST CONTROL DURING THAT TIME THERE WAS A LOT OF FEDERAL FUNDING AND BRUCE DID A LOT OF WORK DOING THE BIG DIG ON LANDSCAPING SO WE'RE USING HIS PAPERS WITH THE PARKS DEPARTMENT AND LOOKING AT HOW WE DESIGNED PARKS TO MAKE THEM LESS FRIENDLY AND WELCOMING TO RODENTS SO I CAN REACH OUT TO BRUCE AND TALK ABOUT THE RED DOGS. AND THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE ADVOCATING FOR THE BIG BELLY TRASH DISPOSAL AND YOU KNOW RATS CAN GET INTO THOSE THINGS. IT'S IT'S THEY EAT THROUGH A LOT OF THINGS.  HOW EFFECTIVE ARE THE BIG BURLY TRASH CANS IN IN IN THE CITY LIKE I KNOW WE USED TO WE DO SOME MORE A WHILE AGO AND THEY SEEM TO BE PULLING BACK FROM USING THEM RIGHT. I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER TO PUBLIC WORKS AROUND WHAT THE CHALLENGES ARE WITH WITH BIG BELLIES. I KNOW THEY'RE MECHANICAL WITH A CONTRACT COMPACTOR INSIDE IF IT CONTAINS TRASH AND CAN REDUCE THE ACCESS OF OF RATS GETTING TO ESTABLISH THE TRASH AS A FOOD SOURCE IT'S GREAT. WE RECENTLY ADDED NEW BARRELS TO THE BOSTON COMMONS RODENT PROOF FOR RODENT RESISTANT BARRELS THAT ARE SHOWING REALLY GOOD PROMISE THERE ALMOST COMPLETELY ENCLOSED WITH AN OPENING AT THE TOP BUT CONTAINERIZATION AND FINDING WAYS TO TO IF WE'RE GOING TO STORE TRASH TO MAKE SURE THAT RATS CAN'T GET INTO IT IS IS IMPORTANT BUT I DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFIC CHALLENGES AROUND THE BIG BIG THOSE COULD THANK YOU THANK YOU MR CHAIR THANK YOU UM ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS? OKAY.  I DON'T HAVE ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS BUT I DO WANT TO ASK DO YOU HAVE ANY CLOSING REMARKS ANY CLOSING STATEMENTS?  NO. THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. I THINK THE MORE THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS IN THIS TYPE OF SETTING AND EXPLORE EVERY SINGLE TOOL TO MAKE BOSTON LESS RAT FRIENDLY IS WELCOME AND SO WE ARE YOUR PARTNERS IN THIS WORK AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO WORK WITH YOU ON THIS. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING. I LOOK FORWARD TO ALSO COLLABORATING WITH YOU ALL TO MAKE SURE THAT WE FIND ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY SOLUTIONS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING RID OF OUR POPULATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.  WE HAVE WE DO HAVE ONE ZOO PUBLIC TESTIMONY.  UM, I WANT TO BE SURE WE GET TO GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY.  CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. YOU HAVE 2 MINUTES FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING OR YOU MAY HEAR MY CAT IN THE BACKGROUND. HE HAS HIS OWN IDEAS FOR THIS SOLUTION. THANK YOU CITY COUNCIL AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS FOR HEARING MY TESTIMONY. MY NAME IS CAITLIN MCCARTAN AND I LIVE IN WEST ROXBURY AND I'M HERE TO EXPRESS MY STRONG SUPPORT FOR USING BIRTH CONTROL AS A HUMANE AND EFFECTIVE ALTERNATIVE TO POISONS FOR MANAGING RODENT POPULATIONS IN OUR CITY.  MY HUSBAND AND I TALK A LOT ABOUT THE WHAT IFS WHAT IF WE MOVED OUTSIDE THE CITY BUT IF WE HAD A BIGGER HOUSE, A BIGGER BACKYARD? WHAT IF WE COULD GIVE OUR KIDS A BETTER CONNECTION TO NATURE? AND THE OTHER NIGHT MY KIDS AND I WERE HAVING DINNER OUTSIDE IN OUR BACKYARD. IT WAS A BEAUTIFUL NIGHT LIKE WE'VE BEEN HAVING. WE STAYED OUTSIDE A WHILE UNTIL IT GOT AFTER DARK AND AS WE WERE SITTING TOGETHER WE HEARD THE MOST AMAZING CALL FROM A TREE IN OUR BACKYARD THIS REALLY BEAUTIFUL SOUND THAT NONE OF US HAD HEARD BEFORE. AND OF COURSE IT'S PART OF THE MODERN SOCIETY THAT WE LIVE IN . MY HUSBAND RAN INSIDE, GRABBED HIS PHONE, RECORDED THE SOUND WE WERE HEARING AND WE LEARNED THAT IT WAS AN EASTERN SCREECH OWL. SO MY KIDS AND I HAD KIND OF THIS MAGIC MOMENT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SUDDENLY REALIZE THAT YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES ENJOYING A NIGHT IN YOUR BACKYARD THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY SURROUNDED BY AND SHARING OUR SPACE WITH AMAZING URBAN WILDLIFE. AND JUST LAST WEEK MY SON SAW NOT ONE BUT TWO BALD EAGLES SOARING ABOVE US AS WE WERE DRIVING ON THE HIGHWAY. SO WE HAVE THOSE MOMENTS EVERY NOW AND THEN AND THEY PUSH THOSE WHAT IFS A LITTLE FARTHER AWAY BECAUSE I CAN STILL ENJOY THE CULTURE AND VIBRANCY OF LIVING IN A CITY AND I CAN STILL FIND THOSE MAGIC MOMENTS OF CONNECTION TO WILDLIFE FROM MY BACKYARD. SO I THOUGHT ABOUT THOSE MOMENTS WHEN I WAS PREPARING MY TESTIMONY FOR TODAY AND ABOUT THE TRICKLE DOWN EFFECT OF RODENTICIDES ON THE FOOD CHAIN THAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT FROM THE PANELISTS AND THAT ANIMALS LIKE EAGLES AND OWLS WHO AREN'T EVEN PART OF THE PROBLEM ARE LOSING THEIR LIVES AND BECOMING POISONED WHEN THEY EAT THOSE RODENTS.  SO TODAY I'M NOT TESTIFYING ABOUT SAVING THE RATS. I'M TESTIFYING ABOUT SAVING OUR URBAN WILDLIFE AND THOSE CONNECTIONS TO NATURE THAT WE CAN STILL GIVE OUR FAMILIES FROM TROUBLE DECKERS AND HIGH RISES AND TINY BACKYARDS LIKE MINE RIGHT HERE IN THE CITY. SO I HOPE THAT BOSTON WILL TAKE A FORWARD THINKING, A HUMANE APPROACH TO CONTROLLING RODENT POPULATIONS AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN SERVE AS AN EXAMPLE TO OTHER CITIES ON HOW THEY CAN HELP PRESERVE THOSE MAGIC MOMENTS AND CONNECTIONS WITH NATURE FOR THEIR RESIDENTS TOO. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU. I BELIEVE THAT IS FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY AGAIN, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. THE PANELISTS TO THE FIRST PANEL TO THE SECOND PANEL TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR JOINING THIS HEARING ON DOCKET NUMBER 1130 IS ADJOURNED