yes okay very good we have established the quum we have four of us here and it is 6:30 I'll recall the meeting to order not please are there any additions dels corrections to the agenda I have some are you ready okay I would like to add under item five which is old business 5 a I'd like to add an update on the Andrews house and 5B I would like to add an update on the Magnuson house and 5c I would like to add an update on the Bernard Thomas Muro and let's see a yeah I I think in the interest of time Craig as a courtesy would you like us to move you up or do you want to sit and listen to all of ours okay of course of course I don't mind it so if there are objections I'd like to move um item 6A up under let's put it under 3 a or for either one it doesn't matter I don't think we have Communications or announcements so so we're going to move you up under Communications and announcements if that Flo you about there you go okay you'd like to add something okay yeah I'd like to add a discussion on strategies for getting a new historic PR for the city okay very good where do you want to put that the thank you for remembering that I didn't have that on my list okay is that is there anything else is there a motion regarding the amended agenda motion to approve the amended agenda thank you is there a second second thank you all in favor any oppos motion passes very next item is the approval of the minutes does anyone have any additions deletions corrections to the minutes I have one little one on page three of the minutes in the last paragraph about CH recall that the board had previously spoken about this is pertains to adding leisureville or any of the large developments to um our historic register and the correction would be and designation of those sites would be in recognition of the development's contribution to the history of white meach and then in the last sentence um I think my pronoun should be she is that is that you got that got um sentence no that had discussion more and was still us no it was it was me talking it would be my BR this one okay um any other additions to the um corrections to the minutes is there a motion regarding the amended minutes motion thank you Ben is there a second okay uh all in favor any oppos okay the minutes are approved so Jay Craig you guys got any Communications or announcements for us one second it won't take long uh no ma'am we don't really have um if you have any questions to us we'll have plan that um just just give a quick update um we had a Town Square North and a South parcel were approved um in back in uh um April so just a quick updates that project is moving along okay did you want to tell us now or later um that's it like yeah that's it that U we don't need to know what the update is just there's an update what um any the emails that you sent to us I believe um the director responded this the emails that you sent April 29th okay we we can go over those things no no we'll we'll do it later I added a bunch of things to the lat so we can go right ahead to listen toig that's ask proba yeah just close the little one down a little B okay that's you no we got it all right so we're going to new business certificate of appropriateness you want me to read the whole thing or you just want to start talking I go ahead and talk if you if you wish that's good okay good evening my name is C Clark I'm the director of recreation and cultural services and I'm happy to be here tonight as you all know um the Arts and Cultural Center um is is the city renovated that beautiful building across the street and we have no sign on it so many people don't know what it is still um we're operating um several classes out of there um we are rening the facility out for different events but a lot of people still don't know uh what we are or who we are so um can you go to the next slide please um I just wanted to kind of give you an update of what's going on inside the building um staff are working with a marketing consultant and City marketing to advertise the Arts of cultural center classes and Rental opportunities for both the Arts and Cultural Center and the historic Women's Club that's now available again for rentals um we're almost fully staff Kelly armad is here in the audience she's the manager of the Arts and cult and April chees bur is the Arts and Cultural supervisor uh we are in the process of we're planning to upgrade the Event Hall of aka the old gymnasium which is a beautiful space to a performance center for Musical dance and other various types of performances we're adding theater curtains rigging lighting audio visual acoustical improvements window shades the front of house control des and room uh this space can also double as a conference center if um if and when we get a hotel here in in the city uh a wedding venue and a venue for other events um the two galleries will continue as public Art Gallery exhibitions um on both floors and like I said earlier many citizens do not know what the building is if there's a need for an exterior sign hisorical nature of the building seeking approval um City administration had decided to pull the Arts and Cultural Center out of reparation of parts and U we created a new branding logo which is up there and um what we wanted to do with a new sign is ulate it's a very um classic classic sign logo in my opinion and we wanted toay down to a new sign that would look AAL building um so this is what the elevation would look like during the daytime and the night time it would be illuminated um we thought about a monument sign but um we're afraid that people wouldn't be able to see it as they're driving up and down the street because cars would be parked in those spaces so it almost needs to be know good view people can see driving by are the dimensions I think it's I think it's a really handsome sign I think it the old with the new and thinking that you all think that as have any questions cultural as well does anybody want to start R you have some questions I don't have questions as much as I have a critique okay your recommendations and the staff's recommendations I have problem with saying that this does not that it's in keeping with the historic character of the building yes you do it's a nice spot but that is not in keeping with the historic nature of this building illuminated signs tapped onto the front of this fac does not create the right feeling for this 1925 structure and I think that your this is just a totally inappropriate style of signage not the style of the words not the style of the font that you've used but the style that you have chosen to put your sign on this wall I don't think that it should go directly on Theo and I don't for from either direction of driving it is perpendicular to driving so those are my first three critiques I think that um I just think it's an inappropriate style of lettering okay okay anybody who want next thank you cra for the presentation appreciate it um a question first um the exterior and interior walls of the cultural center you have a light coating of um speo then the interior is hollow brick I brought one want to see it how is is going to penetrate that wall and it's any thought been giv on possible um water SE Beach Etc I'm just really concerned because the brick is about E8 in and all the bricks used for those walls are Hollow yeah it's my understanding that the wall will not be penetrated at all um I believe that it's going to be either mounted on a staging panel or Raceway to accommodate the power supply and there's two little boxes up above the sign that have I believe those our sources so it's to be staging staging panel or race it'll be sitting you won't be able it but they'll be attached to like a Raceway and then the power source will be my understanding it's going to be run up to the Box um my concern is number one not to interrupt you at any potential weather for water seage into H Dr into into the building obviously this sign is attached to it's going to be attached to the wall somehow I'm also concerned uh if there some sort of board that this signage is attached to with increment weather hurricanes Etc so I'd really like to know at some point something has to penetrate that wall and yes during Redevelopment it was structurally reinforced but still year old bur wall I mean that's my first U person okay that's for now okay first of all let me just say I appreciate you increasing the versatility of that building with other kinds of activities May that it can be used for I've always that that building needed to have more of a public face that people not just for classes and things like that but that there's opportunities for the public to come in and out and see it so thank you for all the plans you have for the gym upstairs and all that I really think that's great but I I do agree um I I don't think that's the kind of sign probably uh that is in keeping the historic character of that building I think it looks odd on a building even though it's attractive in one sense it doesn't fit in the historic nature of that structure my suggestion would be to try to find the way to do a monument sign that maybe there will be cars parked in front of it or maybe we need to get rid of one or two of those parking spaces um which are kind of the plac anyway or just make the sign taller I don't know what to do but I I think it might be worth thinking maybe another way where the building I actually brought a brick with me this is a simple what the high school is made of and it's not very thick and at some point as as Michael said they're going to have to drill into the wall to attach it to something and this that's not much and the stucco is soft and they weren't even allowed to pressure clean the St up so kind penetration of the stucco is liable to introduce water seage to the building and I would be concerned about that I really think you know the picture that you have of the old high school with the frontal view with the the shrubberies in front that kind of um imitates what a monument sign would look like in the front of it I think as Ben said we should go back to the drawing board and wouldd like to participate in helping you do something that would be more periodically appropriate and would not mess with the surface of the building it's you know when the lightning struck the corner and it sat so long unfixed you know where the that Southeastern Corner when we were doing the demolition by neglect plan the water did get in in there and I'm sure that that was a problem so and your objection to a monument sign is that you couldn't see it past the parked cars well look at that last picture Jay can you go to that last picture please frontal view of the old high school I think oh it's not in your there there you can see it right there the Shrubbery it kind of you know looks like what a Min sign would look like in front of you and I think that people would be able to see it and you can light it up you can put lights on it yeah I I we did add a the word library to the City Hall sign just said City Hall and many people couldn't find the library for 3 and A2 years until I worked for three and A2 years to get the word Library put on the building because I was a library director and I thought it needed to be on the building and a lot of people are finding us now so people are seeing that sign but um I understand you know everybody has their opinions on what should go on this building and um if maybe we could hold some sort of um meeting or Workshop somehow um not sure how maybe you could come back to us with some other suggestion I would love to help illuminated right um don't want anything that BS into the wall yeah also I'm hearing I'm also hearing though you don't like the font there's there's thousand of fond out there no I said I do like the fond oh you do like it yes I think the fond is appropriate I mean you could take that same signage the way it's created put it on a monument sign on a monument sign you'd be happy with them I don't think it should be eliminated the way you're doing because it's a 1925 structure but you could light it from side and get the same effect sorry okay go ahead I was just going to say quickly with the monument sign too you have uh an ability to also maybe put something underneath that mentions that it is a 19 each high school as well it could be as smaller letters but you know that kind of sign there there's do CRA I do like the U I like G Square G old school square has a monument I guess you call it that they have old school square and then they have an area that they can basically open up put posters whatever bches are coming up and I would like if we could maybe some discussion on because I agree the uh the center does need some branding out there you know people walk by wow that's a nice building what is it so I have a question if we did a monument sign on the ground would you want to see it C on sides it two sides one side out front I want to see it sides and I think made a nice suggestion it could be Arts and Cultural Center at Old Boon high school or is that how it'sall it I think the historicon high school at historicon high school so that they know is it no just could you do this maybe three sided people are walking down the sidewalk one side here one side here people are driving by one side here maybe uh near the sidewalk where that Shrubbery is but closer to the sidewalk that be three sided I I would not mind just one one side because then you can make it bigger you know bigger taller if you start doing it perpendicular to the building I like your idea think where that is it was based out and people drive I don't think you need to have mides but I think that would be an ideal place and have an illuminated light onot that's one way to do it I don't mind having the sign itself eliminated I don't have a problem with that the way that you pictured it that's well I mean we're trying to inject a little bit of modity City maybe that needs to have light shining up on it like you know your ledin I think Spotlight a great idea actually that we have spotlights already around the school that are multicolored that maybe that would introduce another place to put color maybe have different multicolors of lights that change I don't have a problem with that I don't know what everybody El thinks I think you're going to have to scale it down a little bit to go on on long suggested being right in the middle where the 120 12's sidew that's aing area right Nowa so we have towber um okay well let me come up with a a new design um Graphics thank you um I can bring it back to you next month is that okay if you like to I'd be happy to sit down with you too and help you look at some of them I just Googled it and I there's all kinds to choose from you know this name boa you don't have to go far to find them yeah just be nice to stay close to our branding you know as we're pushing out our branding to back go back the slide or two you say could be that color take that right there and carve that's actually a nice that the the original font that was painted on the front of the building in that location was just black letters there wasn't anything fancy about the original sign would would the sign be structure have to be wise or could you do it like the City Recreation and Parks that each park has that long signage would the it wouldn't be that that's kind of a monument sign in the Parks but this is not part of the recreation parks department anymore so it's got its own branding now um so am I hearing one sided sign or one two two sides I would prefer the one side and just make it bigger one side okay make it bigger it looks like we have consensus we are in support of signage for the old high school since it needs to be identified let me um let me see what I come up with the next few weeks and um I can I can email it to all of you if you want to give me feedback is that I can do that if I if you indiv speak to me individually group um because we don't want to break Sunshine long I can email out some new designs and maybe get some feedback okay does that sound good you can call an emergency meeting I mean important I mean how how soon you want to have it because we don't need as much as we used to well uh we're going to need it sooner than later because we're trying to make it Revenue generating department and um again a lot of people didn't know the library was here for three and a half years until it's said the word had the word Library up there and people are saying oh there's Library so we need one up there soon um it's been open for three and a half years and if there's a need to do it before our next meeting I'll come I'm not sure I'm going to have time to get it all together for less than a month but I no no we don't meet for three months we meet every three months so that's what I'm saying is that we would have to vote at three months from now may too long I'm sorry we don't have to this is just the if we have items to talk about it we can definitely schedle for the meetings um it just the way the aan has at least four meetings per year so whenever their signage is ready to present front of a board we can place it um obviously next meeting is going to be too tight for the art culture center but then they can have the following which is in going to be in July or what I can do is again um send you individual emails and you give me feedback on the design once I have a consensus once I think I believe I have a consensus from everyone I can have I can get a priced out and designed and bring it back to you so it may be a month maybe two months is that okay f with us we get consensus cons I'm sorry uh last not Craig thank you for doing any upgrades to the gymnasium the audio I've gone in and photograph during events that and any additional lighting cool yeah yeah the Acoustics are going to be really refined so I want to be able to hear a trio of violins in the back exactly what I told the the acoustical gentlem they I want to hear it clearly from back here are they going to be able to do that without affecting the barrel tile ceiling they won't they won't need to uh do anything to the ceiling they'll hang some things from the ceiling some panels but they won't just do that's a very nice feature right we didn't want to to anything on the ceiling M be nice to have some chandeliers Jazz it up a little doing my best yeah yeah all right well I appreciate your input this evening thank you thank you for coming appreciate itome and old business way to did Communications okay fine 5 a I added the update on the Andrew's house um Amanda was supposed to be meeting with the developer have you heard anything uh my our understanding is that stf had a pre-application meeting um but we haven't really received any updates from the developer Property Owners regarding Andrew's house yet m i see that they've turn down that flx the condo on the corner there on oce yes but nothing has been submitted um they just the preliminary um discussed um I was not part of it but um it has not been um formally submitted about their plans yet so you don't know when they plan to demolish the flower shop and the barber shop and all those little shops no ma'am no idea right they just gone through the that call The Village at sou uh submit for the pre application meeting that's not even um actual safe plans in Middle yet mhm so it's preliminary they dro the drawings and then they had a meeting City staff is it your understanding that they're going to proceed with the drawings that the original the other owner the previous owner had submitted or are they changing them you don't know they are changing they're changing them yes it's the the based on the pre application drawings it's nothing way the previous approved PL interesting so you don't know when they're going to come back to you with those correct for correct uh you mean the side ples the middle we we would not know until to actually make the submitt are they going to do the bottom part first or the whole thing all once no idea yeah all right I I will try and keep my finger on that one we get to see all of that before it's approved um you you're talking about the S plans yes no they uh depends on what are they proposing it and then um it can be go through um City commission or it can be done through the um staff level administrative level so they're not touching the existing historic structure or that site you're just you're just building nearby no we based on the pre-application meeting it look it appears that relocation has been discussed it wasn't shown on their preapplication plan this is not locally registered designated is not a designated hisor correct we had the report written but the developer was does he I got the that he does not want to have it put on the local register the oldest house yeah he he suggested that the city pay to move it so the discussion hases the city some are we talking Andrews or mag and well the next item on our on our agenda that I added is up the Magnus house which if you have do you have an update on the mag questions oh okay I I'm on with r on this I I don't I I feel like we're being kept in the dark with development on this and we' had the attorney come a couple times and not give us very much in the way of specifics it's always been we're going to work staff to get this going to do the last time he was here it seemed as if uh they wanted the city to move in but then they weren't going to tell us exactly what they were going to do with the house once it moved and whether even theoric structure would be preserved in any significant way those are questions I think we for the oldest house in BO Beach need to have answers to and it can't and then not I don't want to come to a meeting in 3 months and find out all this stuff has been done that is going to hurt theor building and where it's going and what we're going to do with it and we haven't really heard anything it's just going to be a f complete is there some way we can I I I know last time we talked about um AR getting regular updates when we weren't meeting and I don't think she's gotten any um I think Amanda was going to keep her up to date on this so the fact that we have no more information regarding where the house is going to go and what's going to happen with it and all of that I think is I'd like to also mention that okay so it's not registered because the developer that owns it currently doesn't want it registered is that correct I cannot speak of what the developer wants or not wants how does it not how did it not get registered because the developer hasit the developer had a chance to have any say on whether it could be has it phot you um so we had um a report done by draft the reports done in the June 11 2023 I believe all your members received this draft So based on the draft you know it it is something that b actions and that's the time that um the developer came the property owner came and did a quick presentation about their future plans um but nothing has been really um given to the staff or nothing has been really presented to the staff yet I know that in other cities City Beach put in place that the developer has to find a place for it he has to put a bond it so it doesn't fall apart and he doesn't have to hook it up anywhere but he has to find a place for and move it and it's on him and you as a city can demand that you have the rights for him if he wants you to give him a variance if he wants you to give him any kind of um special compensation for his plot of land these are the things that you come back and say then this is what we require of you sir right well so far we keeping old trees that have been on the property for aund and some odd years you don't have to let him property down to zero the very approved plan shows local the Andre house sha on the S plan but they are in the process of revising their drawings that's we um had a meeting for the pre-application um but after that the pre-application meeting is pre-application drawing is not a um actual submitt it's really preliminary stage so we City staff has not been received any um their are Cal packages yet so at this point it's very hard for us to even share or update the board way what their plans are let me catch let me catch Ronda up on a couple of things the developer sent his attorney he sent him twice now and what he proposed was okay the city if the city wants to pay to move it the city can move it but they wanted it to be moved into the northern half of their development because it runs from Bo Beach Boulevard clear down to the Andre house the Ocean Avenue cuts through the middle of it okay so but then so we you want this us to pay to move it but then you want to keep custody of it okay so we things you know talks kind of like you know went to a stand still at that point and it was left that the attorney was going to be in communication with the Mana but the reason why I wanted to move on to the next update which is about the Magnuson house is that I attend city meetings I go to the C meetings the restaurant that was planned to go into the magneson with the little stor the storage things you know and the lot next door fell through the SI cut that man a check for $10,000 and sent him away so now there is now no deal on the magnes house at the moment but guess gu what city owns that piece of land to the east of the magn so if psh comes to shove and the city is forced to pay to move the Andrew's house guess what that' be a Greatful new let me let me ask let me ask you this does he have total rights over what happens to that house can he tear it down if he wants yes at this point the it's not local locally um registered properties so there's no way the city can protect that house right now he can do what he wants with it which really kind of puts him in the driver's seat that's sort of the impression I got that we hadn't done anything to protect it I'm ready to get a ban well actually the report has been written you know we the city paid waren and and Adams to do the report on that so I mean we could theoretically just go ahead and put it on the local register and say too bad too sad it's on the local register well I development on the naal reg that locally as part of their ability to build what they behind it so that's what it's been a long time coming for the cities that you have all the power you have the power over the developer and yes they go to City Commissioner and yes they can get it approved because they take the Commissioners out for dinner or whatever they do and and get them to understand their side their point of view but it doesn't have to be that way and this is an important cultural building to I I don't know how do you get that AC to the commission we show up and voice our opinion um um are you can like maybe a motion to put it on the local register and just go ahead and do it not yourself pH what what happens from there if we do that then it's on the local register a little bit of protection uh we have to follow the procedures of the local designations um it has to go through the um commission ultimately they are the ones make the decisions on this correct us to do that and then would have they can't just tear it down they would have to keep it on the property or allow someone to take it and put it into are you using the microphone yes I'm soft spoken sorry um I think we would save the structure somehow or another saving it on that piece of property is also part of the equation it's always been there but we can't the next best thing is to be like it to the mag is city owns it it makes the Magus house maybe moreable because there's two structures maybe they can find a way to tie lot of T shops art classes galleries small small businesses love those quain Boulder structures well all of those little businesses that are going to be demolished when they you know start to do the development they need to go some you know being perfect for artsy living to move into the magism the flower shop you can probably put a flower shop in the Andrews um I don't know are you interested in making a motion you to know the most about it well um I'm not sure how to word it because I've never done it before like this but maybe it just needs to be simple based on the age and historic nature of the Andrew's house I'm not certain located on uh Ocean Avenue I would like to propose that that property become part of our historic local designation Lo local historic designation be designated in our local register since of historic places since the report is already written and the report is written and it is located in the staff's and that could be um submitted to City commission okay I would mention to add that City Catherine you got that motion did you add that on to that motion sorry okay we have a motion on the floor is there a second Michael seconded it okay um I'm not sure I can repeat the entire motion but I think the first of it is rep there and then change it to be designated on your local register of historic places and then Barbara said the I don't know this part report is written can be to the city commission and then Dr okay that was a pretty big motion everybody okay with that motion okay it's been moved in second all in favor I I any opposed no motion is approved very good interesting and see what happens next so just wanted understanding that this has to be come back to the board again with the Public Notices okay so Public Notices meeting the public notice has to send it out and then the um do you have any concerns the report from the Adam warrant or using this report as the backup I don't have any worries I mean the developer the attorney that came to represent the developer seem to have concerns that it's decreed and going to fall apart and my personal opinion I think he thinks that as soon as we go to pick it up and move it it's going to crumble I think that's what he was hoping that's where you get a bonded has to be under B you if we find out that it could be moved adjacent to the magnes and that you know the empty Lot East of the magnes that the city already owns you know maybe we could get an estimate of the cost of the moving of it and we can incourage the city to find the money to do it or we could be tough guys and tell the developer that's yeah that's fine with me too I have a question was remodel if you will not remodel that's a bad word for it but it was rehab some years ago and the exterior is showing to Mage but the interior should be in good shape wondered if the historic board could take a tour real quick tour in inside the home to see what the that would be at the discretion of the developer I don't think waren gred access to the he did his entire report from the outside of I certainly could be checked into to see have to ask J yes do do you know the name of the developer that owns the property now The Villages um I can't remember but I can pull it out easily we can't pull it um it is called the BB sou for The Villages at South and BB North for The Villages of North okay thank you okay um [Music] so you ask some if you tell me it's not old business or whatever but it sort of ties in's ocean um when I first came on the board Barbara I said to you I would love to get some of those little apartments designated as historic and you said oh they're individually owned they'll never be sold and I'm telling you that they're on the brink and if we can't do something to make them historic they're going to be gone all those beautiful little stairway come up into the center like that all the Fret and stuff made out of concrete all that's very historic and I'm sure over 50 years old so I don't know if that's something we could look into well since yeah well as far as I know they condos and they're individually owned there might be they are but a developer go in there just like Ronnie breezes and say he can go up 10 stories on that parcel of land and park underneath and you're going to change the whole complexion of that neighborhood so that's what I bringing up because this is right down the street well if we had a historic preservation planner we could we could them individually okay anything else on magn and Andrews those were the the two I had on those things and item C that I added is an update on the Bernard Thomas um Ben made a motion as we can see from the minutes on page for in the minutes um what I have learned about The Bard Thomas mural is there's no bone of contention the church will not have a problem giving it back to the city that we just need to get a couple of from public works with a pickup truck and the key to the Woman's Club and we can put it back where it belongs look at his so I'm at the point where I have been I've gotten it that far and I'm going to continue to push um one of the assistant city managers maybe even the city manager to go back over to the church across the street and get the Bernard Thomas mural back and go put it back on the wall in the woman's Co where it belongs so it's not going to be a battle there's no battle involved liy split easily done questions about the Bernard Thomas well I keep I'm work I've been working on it even getting it to that point that there's no it's not going to be a contentious fight that the church isn't going to be like mind you know and not want to give it up we've gotten it to that point and the artist's daughter Sarah voler would love to see it back in the Women's Club so there's it's not even a fight it's just a matter of physical labor at this point right that's what I'm asking what's the next St well if you'd like to contact anybody I would recommend you contact UM either city manager Daniel duer or Andrew Mack so it would be Doug D bbfl or ml. us you know just the other I had a question too I don't know whether it was screw onto the wall or whether it was in like little brackets holding it up so but we've done it that far this is not going to be a battle it's a matter of sending two guys in a truck over there okay so questions comments you know and we're going to put some kind of a um Sarah has a photograph of her dad the artist that we can put over the the corner with the has the offending flag in it so it should not be a problem putting it back where it um chairman chairwoman I'm sorry I just wanted to confir clarify about this mural these are um sort of Arts not this is a historic um resource and preservation board so this is really cannot be the items or take emotions for these items so this is really we do understand it probably has a historical um meanings and historical element but this is a um this is really local destinations or discussion about the historical um uh features but this is truly mural which is more like um associated with art public art so I understand understand that the arts department was involved in divesting the city of the art but the mural is considered an historic asset and this is the historic resources board which would Encompass a historic artifact so I'm not going to stop about the miral I don't care who or what has told you that we can't do it because it's an problem no this is going to be resolved and we're going to resolve it it should never have been given away in the first place because it is an historic artifact yeah in a in a building that is on the national register and was put on the national register when the mural was in it so I'm not going the fall for pretending that it's just an art problem well it's not a we're not saying it's an art problem but it's the it's not really works for this Boards of functions for these uh murals so how to have an artifact return to the building that it belongs in no those things what we are trying to explain those things or can be discussed with the city managers um all cultural director or the um but it's not really B's functions to take actions on this items that's we turn a historic artifact into a historic building I don't know what do you guys think excuse me but didn't we have a whole presentation about it no on our board no we never from the city at all no not from the city but didn't the lady that from the church come here and talk to us something El yeah now I don't know why you're telling us that we can't do it because I'm telling you we are doing it well let me confirm with the directors as well as the city managers team because it's not really that we can if this is something that issues that need to be more clarified and who need who will be the you know right teams to do handling we do understand it has a historical element and it's important for the cities but we we like to have a really more thought on it and how this can be addressed so let us take a staff take this messages and then have internal discussions and um including city manager team okay can I can I just J um I'm just trying to figure out all the parts of this um so it's in the it's in nationally recognized historic building and so it's a part of that historic building that was Disturbed and something was removed from it um so I it does seem like there you know maybe the art thing is also intersects with that somewhat but I do think that it because of the place where it's located and that it was part of how that building got designated as Landmark um it was in there when it was designated so any kind of disturbance of that to me would be something we would have some kind of jurisdiction some if somebody went in there and started taking down uh parts of the pillars or parts of of any of that structure or things that were in there that were part of what made a Historic Landmark that got designated as such I I don't think there would be a question right that we had some kind of role to play in that um to stop it and somehow this kind done without us even knowing about it which to me Bo was the L whenever a historic you know property is somehow Disturbed I would think we would we should be involved in and brought into whatever is happening there am I right I mean well again let us have to take the messages and then have a further discussion with the city managers as well as Arts um cultural directors and then will be in um be in the communication with you next and provid your updates next meetings Okay so we're going to write that down that we're going to get an update from you but meanwhile I'll get it done the um I just would like to point out that this is the historic resources board so if we had designated a tree okay and somebody came along and cut that tree down and or dug it up and took it away okay would we need to consult with the City Arborist then to to get the tree back no no no this isn't it isn't going to work it isn't going to work we're going to get it done with or without you kid okay what's next that takes care of the things that I added to board discussion regarding you have another one I just want this is something that we talk about almost every meeting but we never to go anywhere we just kick it down the road and I think it's become even more and more of a problem because um I I just noticed in that um application for appropriateness it even mentions in there that there's supposed to be a preapplication conference with the historic preservation Center we have that built into parts of our ordinances and parts of what is needed in Planning and Zoning when we deal with historic sites there's a expectation there's a historic preservation planner and we don't have one and we have it and no one seems don't stry for how to get one um and what I felt from staff is that they they think that would be a good thing too so I guess I you know the Commissioners or at least some of them have said that they also would like to see one um and so I'm wondering what can we do in terms of a concrete action to try to get this more on the budget for next year or on the agenda to get this done so we don't just talk we talked a lot about how we want to have historic districts we want to do a new survey all these things that necessitate a historic planner and we don't have one so none of this ever is going to get none of it's ever going to happen they were going to work with interns and FAU to maybe do the survey or some other things but we don't have anybody and there doesn't seem to be any strategy for making sure we get one except sort of big Promises by of the so what can we do what are some concrete steps that we can do to get this more on the radar and actually maybe get this happen it's it's frustrating it's it was our number one priority when we did the presentation this year when barara did that presentation that wonderful presentation that had a video of all the things wonderful things that were done when Warren was here as the hisor planner and none of them had followed up nothing's been done and it's it's tragic for a city of the size of be um and so I I just we've run out of ideas uh we can't we don't have a strategy for the future uh we're just sort of hidden things it's just H this as things come up but we need long-term planning and that that necessitates a planner so what can we do what can we do to get well I guess we would it'd be nice to have staff support for that because they got I don't know how many planners now six um so but we have um we have uh including director and myself we have a six um technically actually it's a um yes the six planners and then we have one um Zing technicians in the department I just I just look at the like Del Beach they have a summer camp for kids on History Beach there's so many things we could be doing they have about 15 Planning and Zoning staff we just need one yes I pres we are a bigger city we're bigger city than green aors by far and they work so we're just asking for this because we used to have one and so much was done when we had one but nothing's getting done really that's focused on hisory I mean you guys are so busy and you do so much good stuff but you don't have the time to focus on that because that's not your main job this is what we need the problem with not having a a planner is that you can't move forward like you said you're not moving forward with this survey the only time when we come together it's a it's a paint color or it's a sign or it's you know it's not a designation of a a new District it's not moving forward with keep the history ofon Beach and that's the goal won beach has a rich Heritage the rich Heritage is being developed and we're losing it and just because you know the school across the street was saved there's so many other resources I Dro down SEC and I'm like 1925 house after another and there's no district and there's no saving them comes in and a a a distinct difference in having a historic planner and not having one is that planner uses his his or her time creating um interest within the city as you're saying and and interest with within the other planners so that it becomes an important important element of city government in general well there's no I think we're all in agreement that that's a very important thing that we need and we're definitely treen water without the historic preservation plan I know what I know this put you in a delicate situation but is there any advice you could give us on on on some concrete things we could do um to try to get this budgeted somehow when when are budget meetings where these kinds of decisions are made it's right now April May start Department wi gather information it's pretty much done by August is there a way that you can make clear at those meetings when you go to them what our very very passionate desire is that we add this and to the budget next year because we're we're kind of we the uh the CL volunte board showing up after time to these meetings and the city's not supporting this at all from what I can tell I mean I'm sorry but whoever wrote this report doesn't know the ins ands of for historic building and so that is a glaring thing to me to come to our board and show us a modern sign to go on a 1925 very important structure in our city and I I'm sorry but to for for it to be recommended by whoever wrote the report I I never I did not understand that it's supposed to have a recommendation and it should be and we should also get a report that tells us if you think it's if you think that's in keeping then you tell us why we need to see how does this set up with the standards interior standards how does this set up with your ldrs tell us those details in a report not just we approve that we we think it's okay that's not what we should be getting that's where a planner comes in because they educate us more on what we're seeing and what we're doing I would also add uh next time I would appreciate more than one week's notice I agree it kind of felt like the COA was spraying upon us so I don't know if it was spraying upon you guys too cic to well the the typical process is the um the the arts and culture director approach us about the options and staff a highly recommended uh freestanding sign in other words Monument sign that was our recommendations to we we it was it was internal discuss discussion with the Arts and board but they uh they approach us why they need this ass signage how this could works for this function for the buildings so at the end we are we provide a staff reports supporting their ideas because they are uh trying to really Market their buildings so um but that was our background now for the formal process of this certificate of appro foring is it as long as they submitted 6 weeks prior to the meeting um then they go they give us the documents we do a little back and forth to compl for the completion of the submitt and then staff start drafting reviewing drafting um those um the reports and then go through the practice and the reviews through internally and then place an agenda so weent meeting agenda um at least the one week prior to your attentions I believe it was a send out the last Monday um for your attentions and for your reviews but however if you think that this is too sure to notice this type of applications we can definitely try to work work harder to give you this type of applications and agendas published before that wouldn't we and this goes back to the need for an historic planner somebody that's internal with the city where a department head give something to staff back and forth for them and it comes to us and we say well no this isn't historically appropriate all this could have been handled by an historic planner I guess the frustration on this board for the past year the commission for the most part says hey that sounds good department heads have said yeah well you know we we'll work on it but nobody in the city says you know what here's the process here's what the historic board can do to usly help and we keep asking meeting what do we do you know there's no real this particular sign locations it was there was existing signs on this building well no I'm sorry I'm not even talking about the signage it's one of several things that basically department heads and staff go back and forth then it comes here whatever the you know situation is with the former Banner that went to staff and the historic planner and it was already or no this is what the state of Florida said you can do and can't do this is what the statute says this is what the city Ed all that's internal and basically the city and this board is sp spinning wheels well one of wanted to based on wanted the check on this factors is the this building had um wall signs in the in the historically they had and what they're doing is they the art and culture center wanted to place a signs not exactly identical but placing the signs and per the our um design guideline metrix which is permitted that's why they are exactly here for your reviews typical signages in the city for the City properties Parks buildings Library buildings they're not subject to Planning and Zoning reviews however because of this historically designated locations because of what they are proposing they are here they were here to present and they're here to discuss by the um sish but based on the metrics that approved by the board back in the 19 um 2019 I believe they they're allowed to have the signs on the wall actually I just look at those metrics they're all matter of interpretation interpretation is that they don't need those metrics and I think that's what historic planner would have known that got because that's their training so it would it would that would have been all fixed before it got to our so I guess um you know not to belor this but as all said and just then said recently everybody seems to be on board with u the position of historic planner we've been talking about this for the past year and a half probably over maybe two years and we can't get anything done and I just don't see the city really advising okay well here's the process it's either yay or mayay this was the same thing at budget time last year it's not like we've never had one the anomaly is the fact that we don't after year now which is having a cumulative effect on how histor preservation is being done in the city and it's nothing negative that we're trying to say about the existing bring it's just that we need this one and particular because this is an area that has a certain expertise and it's and we're suffering as a city have someone on sta where that's their main focus do you believe that there is support in your Planning and Development Department to bring back a historic preservation plan do you think there's support there you mean the our department s to or you think you guys are perfectly fine hobbling along like we hobble along I don't think this is really the place to talk my opinions I don't think that my opinions will be really matter to this subject I know I kind of put you on the spot there anyways um I did it to this point are there budget meetings for on right now that we can attend or are there ways in which we can submit reports to the people doing the budget um something that we can do to sort of protect the budgeting process is there a way we can get into that I believe there is a probably um be able to attend these buzet workshops that coming up soon um you know when that is I do not know I have to reach out to City Clark's office and see if there's anything that put um coming up soon um we can staff can find out about for you and then give you that information thank you and that's open to the public or open at least to us at ago great yeah typically what happens in J might agree with this as well around March or April each department department head staff looks at here's your amount of budget and staff comes in and says okay here's what need sometime around um I believe or so they've already made pretty much their internal budget around July or I think ju public meetings usually two thought to be a third one is put together they typically uh the last one last year was held around 1:00 in the afternoon to 3 so by that time yes the commission yes staff will listen to the public advising you know can we look at doing this but they've gone a couple months already submitting their budget so there is public in when is the next city commission meeting I'm trying to look at their the upcoming meet first and third Tuesday but on this thing it says it's not till July 2 you know yeah I'm looking for the agendas they don't have believe don't me I believe it's May 21st Amanda is the% what she says are the budget needs for her Department year so we would like her to put in for historic planner how do we do that how do we talk to her and get her do it because she has indicated support in the past to us for this what do we do can we ask to see the budget that she submitted I was told that the city manager has already prepared the budget so the next city commission meeting will be um June 18th so June 4th meeting was cancelled what happened to the second meeting in May it was last week uh last week oh yes the yeah 27 they have um no no um so they did um last week actually no wait a minute they did a seven yes we have a May May 27th May 21st is second uh meeting in May and then we don't have any meetings in U until June 18th let me show you the if you see this do you see this website yes so let me go back to I'm go to main page shrink this there we go and then so this is the city main website main page and then there is you see the calendar here so we just had last Tuesday meeting and then this one is going to be when I click May 21st you'll see City commission meeting you see agenda for that by clicking more details yes yeah so usually the agenda is just like a historic preservation meeting it's published one week before the meeting and um right now today so very possibly it will be published tomorrow or Wednesday morning and you'll be able to see you see the click here to view agenda and then it takes to see it's that means it's not um it's not published yet correct I think they do it about a week yes one week prob to the meeting it's not even on you mean like agenda it's not on the L upcoming events it's not on that list not just the agenda the meeting is not on that list well because it's not published yet once it's published you will see none of these are published agendas but they're stilled for the day that's all oh yeah theut yeah they show July for the rest of well my suggestion would be to ually fire off emails to the city commission begging for them to consider including that in there yeah if um you need the email addresses um let me know I can say them out loud right this minute if you want me to because I have the Memoirs or we can email them out I I'm happy I can email to you can I ask more question so how long am I on this board how long have I been this board I'm asking you if there's a when do I go off of this Bo that's the clock manages um yeah okay yeah okay but if if if the board members is missing the the um meetings uh then there is a possibility of uh um we call it as absence and um without the reasons no um absence without the reasons then it's possible that City clock that follow their procedures your term exped her term expired March 24th but then I got the email say come to the meeting so I came to the meeting and I'm still listed on the board so that's my question was answer thank you so much there's one we only meet four times a year who Smith we we don't even know who that isine Roy Smith has never show up he got appointed but of the heck he that the gentl that tried for I got I don't know they told Vero he had to get off of our board because he wanted to apply to be on the crab board this C board I thought you were allowed to be on two boards at a time not anymore you can't be on two boards at a time anymore we've got so many people volunteering okay so I mean that's suggestion fire off email begging you know and be sure to copy Amanda on it because I don't know whether she doubts our sincerity on this matter this issue that we want we want a no no offense to you guys no to you guys you're trying your best but we would like a real plan please hopefully you're not offended okay so let's go to 7A which is a discussion regarding the possible designation of properties to our local register I had tossed out at the last meeting that there's some locations we we could consider since we found out that we have a magic fairy wand and we can go around town and be putting things on our so there's a couple of black churches that we could that are certainly eligible to be put on the local register and the little leak field and the wbr cemetery and I don't know what to think about the bridge then tossed out the Ocean Avenue Bridge yeah my thought on that would be it is historic the location perhaps Plage or something like that you know to give somebody walking by an idea hey this bridge uh this bridge across the intercostal was uh created in in 1911 blah blah blah so yeah we could something to memorialized bridge as far as local register now it's been tweaked yeah it's been twe many times put in trash and here but I mean St Paul's and and what's the other one St John's I think there's another one I asked uh Dees and she gave me a list St John so I mean the option is to approach the pastors of these churches and see if they're interested but here we go again if we had a planner we could send the planner to do that yeah know that's we're not set up to do the reports for ourselves exactly so and the little leag field the little leag field is is eligible I mean what do you guys think about the the St Paul's is AMA St Paul's and the St John's I mean those are the three that I would I would consider the four okay what do you guys think the cemetery that's in the heart of what cemetery is that's one I'm talking about it has it hases the DAT are youing ask we did that one but the cin Cemetery I don't know if there's a portion of the Sim Cemetery that's probably also old enough the study that Warren did Warren Adams was thaton remember they did um ground ground penetrating radar yes which uh which cemetery was that that was the Barton okay and they they ran the ground penetrating radar along the wall at The Simpsons to because there were Graves um in the path of I95 that they were supposed to have moved to those spots on in The Sims it's questionable the penetrating radar was a little bit empty not goodness another can of worms anyway so what do you think about those four things the W Cemetery can park beated sure what you the [Music] little Memorial Park the method church3 we can put it on the list all right so that's one two three four that's five things can we can you repeat it again five locations sure are you writing them down I am trying to write it down okay well we got the wbite and secr Cemetery I'm not sure what they what they call that cetal Cemetery CET um you know where that is right J yes okay the water plan um St Paul's I don't know what AM stands for okay and St John's wait wait it's St John no no okay cross my S off um and we think it's a Baptist you think so okay so St John Baptist Church Missionary Baptist Church oh fancy okay and the Little League field on willb which has been in existence since 1957 or earlier even I think 57 was the newspaper article that I saw and then the Methodist Church is that have a fancy name the Methodist Church press Street United Methodist does they CI pick up carried it over the roal tracks and that brings up another topic that we need a plan for let's go gather some history of the black families in the artist he um un Federal Studios you know which one I'm talking about you know it's I don't know whoever owns it now is very secretive I mean we've tried to knock on the door to get in and see the inside of it all right you guys well that's five things what do you think a good start that's a good start and how are we going to start we don't have a plan they could these are five things that can be included in your email to the city Commission City can one of the people in your secret the secret well I don't know does anybody want to make a motion about any of these things we could maybe pick one or two to just plow a head on what do we need to do has to be we need uh reports written the report that was hired to write for this is the question this is where down when we want to designate hisor properties who in your office right reports we have to contract it out to do the reports can you do that for these properties can we ask you to do that I we have to speak I have to speak with the director about we have a budet the it's limited how much we can spend per year so I have to speak with if you um priortize which one starting it and we can go from there to okay that's a great idea okay that can be number one we need to talk to the first make sure they want to have it or does matter if we hisory us and also to be able to give them show them benefits that being designated gives them I think there's a concern also even amongst homeowners because they're just not aware we don't deal with the interior of the building you know don't understand yeah you know I concerned is just the exterior of the building is that is that church the original structure it doesn't look that old see that's what I'm thinking I don't think it's from 198 I think Church is that the one window is that it it's kind of a box it's just square and the other one must be the one that's on what their age is when they were built all that kind of thing and then we can prioritize well we have the staff do that there's two things there's two things on our list that the city own that we can proceed with we the city owns the Bon Beach Memorial Cemetery okay that could be number one we already own that so theall yeah and the ballark start with those those those are two things that we already own that we don't other three the churches can all be investigate it a little bit further is that you like to we may think of some other properties we should come KN their age when they okay that's a good ide all right so it looks like we have two all right so if we would like to proceed with adding the two City properties from our list to our local register you want us to make a motion what with um didn't you say that um St John's Missionary Church well we're going to investigate the churches a little bit for since the city doesn't own those corre you see the yeah the two things that the city owns are the white beachor cemetery on wbri wbite in the secrist yes okay and the little Le field okay the city is the owner of those two things so we would like to proceed with adding those two city-owned properties to our local register anybody want to make a motion I'll make a motion that we have the city staff follow up on a report for both the city owned Cemetery at w Brighton seest and the little leag field to be able to designate those two properties as his okay you got that motion C okay is there a second to the motion Michael second did it okay we have a motion on the floor to add white Beach Memorial W right cemetery and the little Le field to our local register we're going to take steps to initiate adding them to our local register all in favor any opposed motion carries all right anybody else comments questions I think we've made great progress we've got comments by board members anybody want to talk say more have nobody in the audience um Barra um just just really wanted to disclose even though you made a two motion about the adding local registry wall to prepare the reports for um cemetery and a little legal field I still like mentioned I as I stated that I still have to speak with the director if we have that um budget available to hire um um consultant do the um reports how much did it how much did it cost us to pay warant uh I do not remember that was that was nearly one year ago for the um I would like to know I mean is it thousands of dollars or is it 100 bucks um again I do not remember I have to um she said each study um cost about the 3 to five grand write a report a 50 page report how much it was yeah that's the that's my understanding like 3 to5 depends on depends on the the the size of um properties and depends on the research that goes along with it still cheaper than full I'm sorry I'm God SM so we paid Warren Adams $3,000 um yeah well it's not just a report he has to do all the researches done and then all the writings and um do do um his analysis done to sounds a lot of money but something like that might not well the the interesting thing about the reports is that each every report also has the history of white Beach which does not have to be Rewritten each time you know the only thing that that has to be written written is about the parcel okay it's not like he has to re you know re brain power the history of each time that's that's a hit the button kind of thing okay anyways we would like to do that well I again it's not the staff cannot commit to to any no I'm not asking you I'm telling you that's what we want to do and that's where we would like to proceed if we can and if we have to include requests for money to write reports and our emails to the city commission we can do that too and now we have a good reason to ask for it because we have set a priority of City owned properties that we would like to add to the local register anything else you okay everything I don't know um 2024 I hope we we are July is the meeting very possibly once the art culture um building will have a different type of assigns and then we think that might be middle of um July I would say 10th I think yes July actually um July 8th July 8 there's a possibility we would have a meeting earlier than that if we need to approve the sign um but based on his explanation today they still have to have um discussion internally and very likely design might not be ready to um to submit to us so it might be July 8th might be the um targeted Day July 8th would be the second Monday we generally do second it's the Monday before c meetings so that's what we're shooting for July 8 that's a typical hour meeting schedule second Monday of the month I agree so just two months apart not three well this is we're probably going have to that's probably be like special the sign thing yeah used to be that's when if you missed three meetings you were out but now it's not okay anything else anybody else comments comments by staff yes sir you've had enough fun for tonight okay see no objections I see no objections We Stand The Journey thank you everybody knock out we we don't pledge or pray at my meetings