##VIDEO ID:Ma8WdqeNsJM## welcome everyone to the brenon city council meeting Wednesday January 8th 2025 at 8:30 a.m. we are uh blessed to be here and starting out the 2025 year and at this time I'd like to have the invocation and the pledge we'd call up Reverend Glenn gracic uh the director with St Mary's Episcopal church if you all please stand thank you may Mayor Brown I'm Glenn grk from St Mary's Episcopal Church I'm the director there in paletto uh thanks for having me and good morning let us pray loving and gracious Creator Giver of all that is good as we begin this new year we ask that you send down upon those who hold office in this city the spirit of wisdom charity and Justice bless this council with the spirit of wisdom to know what is best and fair to improve the lives of the people of Bradenton bless law enforcement with wisdom to make good decisions to keep both the officers and citizens safe and out of Harm's Way bless this council with the spirit of Charity so that the poor and disenfranchise receive dignity give us generous Hearts so that we may find the funds for additional Mental Health Resources that the children in our schools need and help us to recognize the undocumented and those labeled different and other as our neighbors and welcome them as cont contributing members to our community bless this council with the spirit of justice so that Juvenile and adult firsttime nonviolent offenders will be while being held accountable will be given a second chance and not be branded for life with an arrest warrant and let Justice Prevail and raise up all those who are oppressed discriminated against bullied and innocent victims I pray that the members of this Council and all who work in and for the good of the city of Bradenton be blessed with a steadfast purpose to Faithfully serve and to promote the well-being and common good for all people to protect the an sustained our democracy and to bring peace and safety to our homes and streets we ask this in your most holy name amen amen thank you you join us in the pledge I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you Reverend we appreciate it all right at this time we'll call the meeting to order um we do have a time sensitive that's at 10:00 a.m. so when we get to that point we'll go back to that part of it um and adjourn or uh actually recess for for that if we're still going so um Madame clerk any proclamations or presentations no sir all right at this time we'll do citizen comment citizen comment will be accepted during the citizen comment portion of the meeting on any non-agenda items agenda items future agenda items or topics of relevance to the city council comments will be accepted on the public hearings at the appropriate time so I only have two citizen comment forms filled out and I believe the first one is Patrick and is it panasik what sir please come State forward your name your city of residence and you'll have three minutes certainly uh Patrick pic my address is 109 23rd Street uh West brington I'm here to discuss an issue of code enforcement and potential future actions um in earlier this year or earlier last year rather I decided to move from Michigan where I was raised on a farm uh to the uh this area of Florida and evaluate in Sarasota Bradington other areas um got various recommendations some to move to Bradington some to not uh we we opted to after we researched Bradington decided to invest and become a member of the community of Bradington um our home is at again 109 23rd Street about two homes from the river um and I think an area that most are familiar with it is an area that has been flooded this past fall and uh so they tell me the first time in a long time although that wasn't much uh Comfort to us after that issue in October we had an issue uh with the neighbor and contact the city of brington on Code Enforcement and that's the uh the keeping of chickens in the city of brington and again uh I raised chickens on a farm although that was an 80 Acre Farm and not a small City lot and certainly capable of raising them hogs again if I need to but we contacted the city in October the city was very responsive on on investigating the issue first of was started off with roosters crowing at all hours of the day and night apparently they were a little bit confused as to what time it was uh followed by uh the placement of chickens about six or eight on that property the property in question and 11422 street is not a a grass area it's not a um Courtyard it's dirt and as you know properties go to properties with uh uh metal fences so anything that happened uh during that time frame when the flood came that was on that property was now on our property was now in our pool and now affecting our animals as well which are allowed under the uh code and ordinance of Bradington I've got a cold today so I apologize for that hope hopefully it's not Avan flu I'm sure that's not the case but uh I did want to come forward because there was some discussion and I know at least two city employees have been involved since October trying to rectify this issue and I I work in a number of different cities and counties in both Florida and other states and 3 months seems to be a long time to me I think we're still at least another month out for any resolution uh which seems to be extremely long period of time but I do understand there's various protocols that need to take place I would trust and hope that that process will follow through to allev okay thank you so um we don't comment during at when you're done but we'll move on if you talk with planning Robin or Greg make one add we we stick with the three minutes sir thank you next is Karen Corbin please state your name and your city of residents good morning I am Karen Corbin from realized Bradington the executive director we are at 10:15 um manate Avenue West in Bron um good morning everyone I'm here today primarily to say thank you thank you to each and every one of you for um everything you have done to support realiz braon and for winter wonderland I just wanted to share with you that Winter Wonderland was an amazing successful event by all accounts um and so many city workers along with each and every one of you in the room today were really you know responsible for how wonderful that event turned out um the police force was amazing and we did you know a great job of keep keeping everyone safe um it really um turned out to be a wonderful evening what the mayor spoke thank you very much almost all of you were there that evening poor Pam was sick I'm sorry um I also want to mention that it was a wonderful opportunity that evening for us to honor Maryann and her family for many many years as you know it was the Barnaby family who started real um the winter wonderland who ran it for years and I cannot tell you what an honor it was for the Barnaby family to come to us realiz braon and ask us to take it over so I truly hope that we made you proud um we worked very hard um we have named the area which is getting bigger every year our Carnival area as the Barnaby family Carnival and it will be that hopefully forever um so thank you all very much I also want to share with you in front of you our Sanic it's just a small little um show of appreciation for all that you do um I hope you like it um there's also um a little invitation there on January 18th we will be having our kickoff to this brand new event that we're bringing to Bradenton where we will be um activating the Riverwalk for an entire day um we're very excited about it the kickoff will be at the market on January 18th at 10 o'clock um 10:30 I'm sorry I hope that um all of you will come more to come I'll be talking to you about that in the next week or so so thank you all so much we appreciate you have a great day thank you thank you um at this time I have no other comment card citizen comment card so does the council have any comments they'd like to say anything Miss Coker yeah um I I know we had started discussing the idea of our ordinance allowing you know a few chickens and I think we kind of need to Workshop it again and discuss it um I I I think a lot of um I mean with it no one knows if where the boundaries are between County and City and they're allowed in the county and not in the city um so I I just think we need to Workshop it and address it again okay thank you anything else I agree yeah okay all right all right anything else Miss Barnaby I just want to let realize BR to know that Mark and I were so honored and very proud that you included us and continue to include us in Winter Wonderland and um my son actually you sent one of these to our son in England because he helped give you some information about snow mountains and that sort of thing and he was so excited so thank you thank you yeah I I think um one of the things that I heard from several Merchants businesses downtown that they think it's that was so inviting familyfriendly as we always talk about that's our gold on on Main Street when we're doing things and it really something that played into what we envisioned as as going forward and and as we know um with the Barnaby family if they wouldn't have started it you know tens of 20 of years ago I didn't want to say hundreds of years ago but but uh tens of 20 of years ago from that if that's even a saying but um that it was important to to continue that on but it's also important to grow it and make it easier and I think that uh the stress level that I saw on vice mayor Barnaby at that times was not there compared to years past and she enjoyed it and did a great job from the the logistical standpoint and was able to figure out the snow mountains which the kids love um because without those slides it's people missed it but it worked perfectly and I like I said I heard from several of the businesses even that night from emails saying wow you know it's a great job realiz Bradon and that's I think the purpose of what realized Bradon was started many many years ago and we want to continue that positive growth and safety is very important as we go forward and that's something that you know we're always going to be looking at that now especially with what's happening around the the country and I know the market had a lot of things this weekend that our officers did a great job of of continuing and we will continue that just to make sure the public does know so thank you very much anything else on citizen comment hearing none we'll move to consent agenda chair will entertain a motion mayor yes ma'am I move to adopt the consent or approve the consent agenda items a through e and G through S so a through e and G through S so you want just basically pull F ft and U oh f t and u f t and u is there a second or is I I would like to um Pull N let's see 9A and uh let's see t Okay so T is on Mrs Moors um so Mrs Moore will you accept the friendly oh no excuse me I said that wrong you she's already got you too okay so not T I apologize will you make a a friendly amendment to pull ftu and a yes and a second by Miss Coker second okay all right all in favor of approving consent agenda um except for ftu and a say start the vote in award one yes two yes three yes four yes five yes okay that carries five to zero all right Miss Moore uh regarding item f uh I would just I thought it would be beneficial for Mr Williams to give us a little synopsis of what we're actually doing since uh the numbers are a little larger and I think it would be beneficial for everyone to in case there were any questions or or ambiguities sure happy to thank you councilwoman um basically these are budget adjustments that cover various multi-year Capital sorry multi-year Capital you know rookie mistake uh multi-year capital projects and vehicles that were approved and awarded in fiscal year 24 but were not received by September 30th so in order to procure those and ensure that we get them in fiscal year 25 we essentially move the budgeted approved dollars from 24 to 25 and then on our multi-year capital projects obviously they're going to co cover many years so we carry those funds over until that project is completed and that's what these budget adjustments represent great thank you you're welcome um T Miss Mo T um my question was regarding really how we got there with the increase in services and costs um so if maybe you if Mr Perry or Mr Williams could kind of Express what we're adding and why we're doing that do you want me to take that one sure okay um so obviously we have Jacobs helping us at our Water Reclamation facility um they've done a great job uh unfortunately we've run into some issues that we continue to have and work through um we found it beneficial uh initially in that scope of the contract uh we were going to add some additional um operators thinking that they could have a reciprocating license come to find out that that that's not the case so what that contract really represents is more of a not to exceed number um it actually we're not going to have the additional from what we can tell now we're not going to have the additional operators The Operators that we have on site now have been with us um for roughly five months we'd like to continue that service to help continue improve the operation of the plant um incorporating writing some of the Sops standard operating procedure manuals um continue to work with our chief chief operator um our Deputy Public Works director spending a lot of time there as well so we found it beneficial to have Jacob's expertise continue to help us ensure that the operation of the plant they're going to help you know is successful and they're going to help us with some of the capital items as well so again it's it's a not to exceed number but we found that we're not going to really need to access all of those funds and they're covered by the you feel confident that the Operational Support Water Reclamation budget is sufficient correct yeah that's that's an Enterprise fund and yeah it's it it can it can cover it and um I think it's worth investing those funds for the betterment of the future absolutely great thank you and also I'll Mr Perry go ahead thanks mayor just in addition to what Mr Williams outlined which is pretty good as Rel describing this uh bar this budget adjustment request um you know I don't think it's any secret that we underwent three storms that had overwhelmed our wastewater treatment facility capacity um typically designed to process somewhere between five and six maybe 7 million gallons a day um at times having flows of 25 to 30 Millions gallons a day one of the problems with that is that um when the system fails to operate in What's called the mix Li liquor activated sludge uh type process which is the type of plant it is probably 75% of the plants out there are like that you end up with a with a problem of um dissolved solids is what they're called DDOS and one of the problems with that is that we continue to be in that mode um to try to to to press out these these solids and we're continuing to have Jacobs help us with that just to give you some context on what that means is we're talking about I think 420 tons per month correct per month of of solids for and that's 12 truck loads a day that have to come out of that plant to make it start getting on balance um and so there's certain challenges that are related to the storm itself the failure and deficiency of the plant related to the storm um volume and we're going to have to continue to basically address that yeah and I just to kind of cap that so and having the meetings with Jacobs and and constant reporting um you know we have monthly testing that we do with the plant to to ensure the operation successful um Jacobs reported that this last month the testing was the best they've ever seen so the progress is definitely there we've seen a lot of benefit of of having their expertise um and this like Mr Perry said it's we're trying to get a a quite of a large volume out of the plant to can continue to make it healthy so and you may ask why we have that volume aside from the from the storm itself uh we have two what are called screw presses and that's basically what takes the DDOS and it it compacts them and in order to take them to a landfill that's approved by a d because you have to have a license actually at the landfill too they have to be at a certain level of compaction and and and dewatered and that's basically generally 16 15 or 16% and so with those screw presses being down they're actually made in Germany they were installed years ago Mr Williams and I spent many a day walking around the Arbitrage of it up in catwalks and the light going what is this how does this work work and it's a called the screw press it's designed to basically dewater these solids we put them after they're compacted at the right um uh uh compensation level concentration level we card them out to that with a hauler that's licens as well you may have heard me talk about that we're talking about now having to do 12 trucks basically a day to that's a lot generally we would use probably two yeah it's 12 a week yeah yeah 12 a week okay yeah we'd use we use two I think M and so we're kind of overwhelmed with that the screw presses themselves were built in Germany many many years ago and it was where one was operational when went recently and the other one was just kind of on the the fritz it wasn't working so we had to bring in technicians to basically repair that in the interim we had What's called the belt press and we bought in this big thing about probably a quarter of the size of this room that that that presses the solids a different way and um we had to pay for that too which was very expensive to use that equipment in order to remove those solids and so we have since been able to rebuild the screw press one of them we're in the process of rebuilding the second one correct but these are things as I've always said that aren't mushroom patches that just popped up overnight uh they were maintenance issues that should have been handled uh previously on a preventative maintenance scale and so I I know the mayor and I and everyone else at the department in public works have spent a lot of time out that plant will continue to do that and we see exactly what some of the results are of of of some of that lack of attention in the past yeah so I'll add a a little bit to that obviously they talked about the technical oh I'm sorry go ahead Miss Coker thank you Coachman before you um uh you don't look this way no I'm just kidding just kidding um um just out of curiosity you were saying that you were anticipating having additional Jacobs people here um but you don't have to now just roughly how many of the those employees are here and I know we're responsible for their lodging and all that and travel and stuff how many I'm just curious so we currently have five we were we were um essentially budgeting for an additional five um but we're we going to be the the the five operators that we have that have been here we're going to be good with those five so we won't need the additional five and I know we working them like they're 10 right yes we do they're good people and they know exactly they've they've taught us a lot they've taught our operators a lot um again they're helping kind of set the future up so we don't have um you know once we all are are gone retired or what have you the next group that comes in can pick up where we left off and continue to make improvements to the plan so they've been they' been integral and very important in that process um and it's a culture change you know we're we're trying to to change some of the mindsets of The Operators our chief operator um what are the expectations and that's document train make sure that the next group that comes in our new operators our trainees know exactly what they're supposed to do why they're doing it when they're going to do it um and that's you don't you don't change that ship you know overnight um like I said it's it's moving in a very positive POS direction we're happy with a lot of the results that they have and we just see an additional term of of having those five operators help us just be more additional you know more beneficial for the plant and for the city that's a massive undertaking and I think we're probably getting our money's worth out of them absolutely yeah they they work tirelessly for sure M Moore um do they provide any kind of product that we would be able to digest so that we have a better you know your boots on the ground but do they give us like a memo or a report about their work that we could kind of have an idea already of what they're doing and how it's going um they do have some reporting it it's taken and this is you know I don't want you to take this the wrong way but it's taken Rob or Mr Perry and I a long time to kind of digest what any of that means um because a lot of it is a a very variable you know if you change one thing if you change why it's going to change X and some of the reasoning behind it um I mean if you want to take a tour of the plant and talk with Jesse who's their lead operator that would be I would I would suggest that I mean it's it's probably a good idea to see you know what they're going through what they what they've improved on um there's some conditions of the plant that we're continuing to work through so um I think it'll give you a better idea and we're happy to set some of that up if if you'd like to do that yeah I think I would like that thank you where wear boots though just to answer that question Do they have any product so the last meeting I had with Jesse White I guess I'm sorry about two weeks ago and and Irv was there Jesse bought in three bags um they was a very dark substance that looked like ground down dirt um it wasn't Y and and and what it is is showing me basically what 20% dewatered looks like compared to what 50 and compared to like 8% I was told not to touch it without gloves if I didn't have a hepatitis shot it was in sealed bags but that's the technical kind of you know aspect of what they're trying to do there um and the good news is you this plants about two things operations and and the plant itself the capacity of the plant how the plant is uh operates and yesterday um for our legislative um initiatives we had a meeting with Miss clayback and Irv and and some other folks about what we intend to ask for the legislature um and there's we believe there's going to be significant push towards resiliency um and environmental resiliency so we will probably be seeking a signific in Appropriations to do improvements to the plant that could give us an additional 8 million gallons per day capacity over a period of time that's a lot compared to what we have um and it's on site the good news is it's always difficult to try to you know do a second plan cuz who wants one of these in that backyard right and there's neighbors nearby or schools or anything else the good news is we can contain most of our plant all of it quite frankly on existing footprint and so we're going to run that by you pretty quick it wasn't until really late in the day yesterday I think we were here till about 6 o' or so going over that plan but it was fairly promising on the various um uh improvements to the plant itself Mrs Barnaby just a word of advice we're close toed shoes I've got my boots don't touch anything unless they tell you to um I remember when we had to take your daughter to work days things that went on and I took my niece and um we T different parts of the city and I called Public Works and they said Oh come over to the wastewater treatment plant an hour and a half later my niece and I knew more about solids and liquids and sludge than I think anybody wanted to and it's very funny because she actually has told some of her she's now 25 and somebody was complaining about the city and she's like you have no idea what they do you have no idea what the wastewater treatment plant does and then she starts rattling this stuff off so she obviously learn something so I I I do encourage you to do it don't wear clothes that flap or move or anything you don't want to get anything caught anywhere shoes got wear a ball cap okay don't eat with your fingers thank you got okay so um I'm going to just kind of articulate on what Mr Williams and Mr Perry said that this has been something that's been ongoing for several months after we had um Debbie and it really has articulated into a lot of time and effort by Mr Perry and Mr Williams as well as our public work staff some of the names have been mentioned where midnight 1:00 2 o'clock 3 o'clock in the morning When Storms had passed in heavy flows are now 10 days later because it takes 10 days for some of our flows to get to that plant so you would think oh it's over well no it's taken by the pump stations and and uh as we've said in the past I've learned a lot more about wastewater treatment and different things than ever thought I would but one of the things that I've seen and especially with Jacobs and um others that Mr Perry and I have met with for going forward on opportunities that will come to this Council to have that opportunity to make a generational change at that plant we don't know what that is yet but there might be an opportunity to make that change so the next group that's up here isn't talking about this they're talking about well we ran into another storm but we were able to sustain a little bit better and that's why we've done the face it and fix it type scenarios that that are out there so it's a good thing you know and and again I don't think that the way we go with our consent agenda I still think is right where then things can be pulled off and talked about because you see if we went through every item like this we'd be here for two days or more so but I'm I'm I'm very glad that this opportunity came up to talk about this because we do see it every day that are in House fulltime but this is this is the opportunity that this Council will have to make a generational change at what cost we're going to have to figure that out and at what legislative priorities that we can get you know because if we can get the money legislatively we can do it quicker but you know I don't again and I've said this we are not going to be able to tax or Enterprise Zone cost our way out of this so and then again this is to face it and fix it and one of the things I do want to show that's up on Elmo now is there's been a lot of propaganda out there over the last several months about what's happened and what's going on so if you look at the Sun Coast water keeper water quality test results from 1223 24 it's the last one that I know of people talk about how our Bay our River our areas are polluted because of what we have done with our Wastewater and what we are releasing and and the did but when you look the um Peta Bridge area the one before this was undetectable this one is in the Manatee River and if you look basically just in the river to a little bit to the right of what that form is where our outflow is and and it goes flows past the petto as you know the Manatee County dam is way up River there and so when we saw the high levels it was when there was billions of gallons of storm water being released everywhere and I'm talking with Dave tamasco which we've had come in many times from Sarasota Bay this is being judged on the safe to swim water well the river isn't really a swimming like a beach so you know we're being judged on a beach quality and it's not even Beach quality but we're still within the beach quality levels in our River so not to say that we ever want to continue releasing into the river but we are facing it and we are fixing it and when you look around for our waterways in Sarasota Manatee County it's impressive with everything that we've had over the last six months and so face it and fix it continue to do with Jacobs right now but be prepared for more to come over the next six months and some decisions are going to have to be made so I just want to show that you know we see the bad from some of the media and the propaganda media that's out there but also let's look they don't produce the good they don't show you the good they only show you the bad I think that you know produce the news don't make the news and if anybody wants to to call me on that you know I'm very accessible in any media Outlets I will talk with you I talked with another group this past weekend or past week somebody we had never heard of and when I gave him all of the information that I know and what we're doing he was like wow I don't even know if this is a story you know it was somebody Sun Coast News so down in Sarasota but but again produce you know print the news don't make the news and that's all I'm asking but you know and this is an independent water keeper um so great questions and be prepared over the next several months to get more information so thank you all right Miss Moore you you um now that we're coming up to the year I'm sorry sir do you want us to vote on that we didn't vote on F we didn't vote on well let's we vot can we get all of them or do we let's just do all of them and then we'll vote them together if that's okay we can although I think that maybe you is going to be it's going to need some review with the attorney I think all right we'll go ahead and talk about you and then we'll talk about me and then we'll make the votes okay um for this one I um I spoke a little bit with Mr Perry and with Mr Bruto Miss Powers regarding now that we're up at the um anniversary of this agreement um there are just some points that I would like to see clarified and so if we're going to uh extend it I'd like to see us include these items um in the extension um specifically I would like clarification about um I would like to have the contract address expenses uh that the EDC incurs um and that this is really like a point of conversation for everyone um currently I don't see that the contract really limits what kind of expenses or even just requires us to know or approve anything beyond a certain amount um so currently as written the expenses could be anything and then we also pay a 5% administration fee on top of that amount of the expense and I just like to see caps you know so that we kind of know what we're getting and and what we're potentially facing as far as cost so there's that item and then the second one was I know that um that the EDC came last year and presented regarding deliverables that they expected to deliver but I think it would be more appropriate if they were actually incorporated into the contract as as far as obligations go um so I would like to see that also included in the contract and to the extent that there are going to be some kind of studies or whatnot when we're talking about deliverables I would like clarification about the type and and what exactly we're working on I guess so would you like to until we have Mr Perry I'd like to hear Mr Perry's I had had the opportunity to speak with uh councelor Gonzalez Moore and and I think her points are well taken um particularly in speaking with EDC um and what their plans are this year to move to a um a strategic consultant basically to look at opportunities for the city uh as would be best suited to promote Economic Development and and more vibrancy that's going to be a fairly significant undertaking so on top what what we have before us is just the extension basically of the contract the predic for the contract itself is not here and we haven't had a chance to talk with that I was hoping that uh that EDC might be here and and and Sharon to maybe answer some of these questions but I think tabling it may be a good approach all right well I think also one of the things is we would not go into a huge contract like that without it first coming back here so that is not the intention of saying oh we're gonna go and then all of a sudden have them do some study for $200,000 and do it without approval right so that would be something and that's something that we've talked with them about that they would bring to us and present it and then show the deliverables on that show what the cost is and so none of that would be just automatic I I don't but that is not contained in the original contract and I think that that preapproval and submission of a proposal right for sure so I have no problem tbling that or or taking that and extending it to maybe even having a presentation from the EDC with what they think a cost Factor would be because then we could say okay yes but and then what is also going to be our outcome and how long will that outcome take and what will be done so um if I could yeah um ju and and regarding that because I when I'm when I'm thinking about deliverables and what they're going to do um and I love the idea of having them present and then we kind of move forward just so that we have an opportunity also to discuss um one of the other reasons why I want to discuss it was because I to me economic development is a little bit of a of a general phrase and and I know that I know I have pretty specific uh thoughts on on what I'd like to see downtown work towards and how we get there and you know supporting surrounding areas of downtown and whatnot and so I would like to know what you know because my specific idea about what downtown eventually becomes and how we get there could be completely different from what you all are expecting so before she goes to the time and effort of um of presenting anything I think it would be a good idea for her to know what we want in the way of Economic Development other than this general what we want downtown to be vibrant I just would suggest that you know it's always one of these things with the what comes first the chicken or the egg and I understand that let's not talk about chickens now right sorry to go back there um but but five different Council Wards may have different interests for sure um at the same time I think that part of their job is to try to look at it and say what would be viable as an expert and and and integrate that into obviously the the counil from that Ward as well as the counil as a whole in approach but you know what comes first the chicken or the egg I guess yeah sorry about yeah so I think one of the things and then I'll go to councilman Coker because she had this also but one of the things that I think we really need to look at as a council and as we move forward Administration is there was some things done in this community 20 30 years ago and they sat for 20 and 30 years of nothing so we basically set up a program in East Bradon it was set up with the front porch all that and you know whether you agreed with or not the change that we made over there for development for 20 years that didn't work so we need to look at the people that are in the process of doing things and knowing what's happening and get their ideas show our ideas and then obviously try to M marry him and go forward but we're at the point now where I think really the goal for us is to set things up that can happen quickly not you know just one person's but quickly in a way that can get heads and beds things that are done we're going to see some opportunity really soon to have several hundred more people downtown because of places that are opening up and we're not prepared for that from a a retail type standpoint if we want to keep people here and I heard something yesterday day before from a individual that said you know well we don't have a grocery store yeah but if a grocery store thought they could be viable downtown they would be here they don't think they can be viable yet because it doesn't hit the number so some of those things you know we've got to do but no I I don't disagree with that I'm I'm All About metrics and and making sure that they're saying timelines and how quick you know and again but not to set us up to say okay we're going to do this in 20 years later they're still looking it because it didn't work so miss Coker well I would say that um councilwoman Moore covered pretty much exactly what I was thinking about but um the when you say that the grocery stores aren't coming because there aren't enough heads and beds and that's where I view you know something where the EDC might be able they don't know how much we've got here I think and I think if we could package ourselves a little bit better and say hey we've got so many here we got so many coming because we know we have several projects that are in the ground and various stages and it that's to me that is part of economic development is preparing yourself basically marketing yourself to those people that want to come here but um anyhow grocery stores I'll disagree with you on something with the grocery stores they know because when they're building three Publix's within a quarter of a mile of each other they know and you know so they do their Market studies because if they could make their market and hit their target they're going to come in and try to find a place and and do it so and that's and talking with some of them you know they're not going to put it it's going to fail and literally out on 70 they're building three publes within less than a mile of each other because they know that they're going to hit their three targets you know and so again I'm I'm going to say disagree I'm not disagreeing the economic development can come in and say all right let's do this this and this and then also hold them to task so I agree with that me my little thing just to if I could just finish if I could just finish I I would support tbling it and I would just like to remind the council that the CRA board has discussed this and we have met uh in our in our meeting with our director and we've talked about bringing someone another consultant in to talk specifically about CRA areas but that information should be able to you know like mushroom out as well so we you know hope we can get all these hands on deck and we can really get something going my um my just to round out the conversation about the grocer um the the little bit of research I've been doing on that indicates that while I agree that they have a market um that they're trying to hit but to the point about having like three within a mile radius the um the research I've been doing shows that there's also other things that they're they're weighing against the heads and beds thing and it's things like for I using the three within a mile radius because I also drove out to Parish recently and was really actually annoyed that at how I was like there's a Publix there's a Publix there's a Publix and then later when I did the research I found out that it's weird things like the reason why there might be three in a mile radius is because they have uh they're considering also the sales of things like cold goods and so it's easier for them to have cold Goods spread out over that mile so that nothing is rotting on the Shelf instead of packing the Shelf really super tightly and hoping that they get the volume that will kind of deplete it um it's also things like traffic patterns um and where people are where you know and and light signals so that people can get into the parking lot um and so I want to I my thought is uh in my conversations with the EDC I would like to tell them this is my idea this is what I want can you go figure out how we get it what do we need to do to get the things that we want and I and that's why I raise these kind of things because I'm I know what I want but I also want to know what everyone wants because I think there's a way to marry all the all the ideas and desires you know I think we we are a collaborative group so I just want everyone to think about and I've been up here the longest on this part of it is with the grocery store that we were trying to put on 13th Avenue with the grocery store that was on Martin Luther King and that that we're trying to make it it was always subsidized and I don't believe that I would not be for a subsidizing a grocery store at any point and that's you know the CRA sometimes helps with facade and different things like that but to say okay if you don't if you fail where is it and and what we've learned recently from Publix it's it is about their Staffing it's about the product it's about that but they have a target number and if that Target number goes above 300,000 and it's 600,000 they know they've got a market because they want to be a target of 300,000 each store per day so again if they thought they could get 300,000 downtown they'd be downtown and that's what that's what their Executives told me they don't believe they can hit that Target yet um for them you know so that's that's something that that believe me they but if all of a sudden there's enough heads and beds you know and they can get it that's going to happen so yeah so we've talked about that let's go to a with Miss Coker then we'll go through the the different motions and positions hang on let me get back to that oh that was the ship um and I've kind of been um pushing a little bit for this for a little while I think when we have these ship um grants that I would like to have at least the bids or I would like a little more meat on the bones under what we're um doing if possible um a description of what the work that's being done um I just I just feel like I need more a little bit more this is a great program and I want to make sure we're getting the most bang out of the buck and um so if if possible I would request that you know if there's a I think they go through a bidding process if we could have a copy of the winning bid that just you know identifies what work's going to be done something like that um I don't know if there's a problem with that or how the best way to do I just don't feel like I get a lot of information I'm getting a head shake that that can be done so are you comfortable approving this now with that caveat having more information for the future um I mean is it possible to get a little bit of a description about what's going to be done with this for now yeah okay Mr gelon can come forward and give that morning everyone I'm scaling Housing and Community Development manager um for this property it is actually at 2219 24th Avenue West um there are two bids because the scope of work is separated out to the type of contractor that can do the work um the foundation work through Foundation Services is going to cost 11,375 the second contractor one Coast Construction they're going to be doing the rehabilitation part of the project and it's going to include include replacing cast iron Plumbing it's also going to resealing stair cracks on the exterior and they're also doing work in the kitchen and bath repairs and that work is going to cost $45,000 um $12 for total expense for that property of 56,3 187 for Rehab projects we can go up to 100,000 so this is just a little over 50% of the strategy expense that we're allowed to award okay and I'm assuming that all that FEMA that we're not exceeding the FEMA exactly and all that this is the rehab strategy so they're not involved with the Disaster Assistance strategy well okay um yeah but if you've got a property that I mean sometimes the value of the property isn't worth what we're exactly we do we do take that into consideration of whether or not someone is eligible that and the main eligibility requirement is income for these but we do take that into consideration as well okay depending on how much the repair is going to cost versus the value okay and we will make sure we include that in the future okay and Mr Perry had a comment then okay Co just briefly aside from the specifics of the project um this being $56,000 project including both foundation work and ultimately construction interior remodel um I think they're also should be some additional information regarding how many um applications you'd receive that year and what the eligible amount is because I know we're very restricted on that we put our work plan in um that's pursuant to the guidelines for the fed and and for the for the grant itself and um then we basically do the public advertising from what I understand and you know whether the public really knows what's out there and doesn't I guess that's a hard thing to measure right but ultimately someone comes up and says one way or the other I want to apply for this income based grant for improvement to my home and you end up spending 56 of the maybe $300,000 that might be available on the thing and you go well we were able to do six homes that year I think Council would be well suited if they understood a little bit more about what what the total available funding was on an annualized basis how many applicants you had how you competitively make decisions if it's competitive and that type of data as well because ultimately at the end of the day we want to Service as many people as we can I would imagine that fits these categories and sometimes when you look at a home with $56,000 for improvement and you know that neighborhood and say well the home's value is probably not a whole lot you know is a smart thing and and and we're we're using you know other folks money OPM right the people's money so so I get that part of it but I think it has to make sense to council basically both from the macro picture as well as the micro picture on the project itself it it makes them uh it makes it more palatable sensible to them well and if I could um also I mean ship funds if I'm not mistaken can be used as down payment assistance for first-time home buyers and at a time when we're seeing we're having so much pressure on affordability and you know the people being able to be to get into a home be do the home ownership the one thing that that can create you know generational wealth for for these for the next generation and actually you can be a first-time home buyer even doesn't depend on your age if you haven't owned a home in a certain amount of time so if you've gone through bankruptcy and you've had to be a renter for so much a time you can be considered for down payment assistance to get yourself back into Home Ownership so I want to make sure that I mean if the funds were available I'd really like to see it it's been a while since the city has offered down payment assistance and I I'd like to to see us get back to that I think what we're doing is great but I'd almost like to see us set some of that aside for that as well so I don't know where that discussion comes doesn't have anything to do with this one um but I just want to have that discussion M Coachman thank you I've had the opportunity to watch one of these cases go from zero to near completion right now and it was a long process and involved a lot of information and a lot of consideration and from what I know doing these getting these bids and doing these home restorations and and assisting in um um rent and all I think we started doing that more now in the last year or two than we have so you're absolutely right it it it it's definitely moving in that direction that we're really using those funds appropriately I think or make getting the bang for our buck at least right so I just want to say I appreciate you in all that you do because I don't think we were doing that a couple years ago I think we are definitely getting inquiries about some of our other Strate IES as I look through the history a lot of it was just Rehabilitation now we're getting more with um mortgage assistance to prevent people from being foreclosed upon and we're doing and our first of the um demolition rebuild um so we are really starting to get the word out there and let people know what strategies we're working with and how we can help and I'm I'm seeing a lot more activity with other strategies than just the rehab which is good and I appreciate uh what m Mr Perry was saying you know getting the word out that's definitely something across the board we and we did we did do an ad in the utility bill and we got a phenomenal response to that to put that in to try to get the word out we also um did a video that went up on YouTube about the different programs um but I think the biggest response we've gotten is from the the advertisement and the utility bill we got a lot of phone calls so it's good to get the word out and I'll just get that in a few more extra times maybe quarterly to kind of um initiate more interest well we look forward to more thank you okay and I will make sure and make note of the additional information that will be helpful to everyone so thank you for that Mo that wants a comment right I was just going to say to Mr Perry's comment um the my last meeting with the um affordable housing advisory committee this has been a focus um Miss Council Coker was also in attendance because we're overlapping and now I'm rolling off um and that has been a focus of that advisory committee uh as far as in agreement with your sentiment what's the best way to have people actually look at see what what's going on what what do we have what have we used even down to where the location um what Wards are are taking advantage of the of the programs and whatnot um and so I don't know I mean maybe it's a maybe when you guys are meeting you could share the the graphs and things that you're working on Just for informational purposes exactly we have updated those from input from the last meeting and those will be shared next week at our next um affordable housing meeting great so yes we're definitely breaking it down to WS trying to break it down to zip codes what the strategies are that interest has been shown in so we are definitely working in that direction okay thank you so um thank you Mrs Co would you like to make a motion to approve a yes motion to approve the 56 387 in ship funding for loan for loan resolution number 2517 yeah oh second it just says the action okay and all right we've had plenty Miss Coachman seconded it Miss Coker was the motion maker so we've got um vote start the vote inward two yes three yes four yes one yes two five yes I skipped all around there missed five carried five to zero all right Miss Moore would you like to make a motion on F and T yes I move to approve oops um f is uh budget adjustment ba 2501 and amendment number oh to approve budget adjustment I've lost the number again F ba252 or I'm sorry 01 and amendment number three to agreement with Jacob's Engineering Group Inc for operations management and Facilities contract second okay we've had discussion we'll start the vote in word three yes four yes five yes one yes two so it carries five to zero thank you and then um do on a consent agenda do we do we table that or do we just push it for further inform information you can table it okay I mean it'll it's kind of all one the same for more to come back either you know get more information to come back in Future date yeah the only thing mayor if um I may that I'd like to point out is the current contract does expire tomorrow um and that's okay we've we've done extensions where there's been a little bit of a lapse but um understanding what council is asking from the EDC it may be that a new contract is just done um to include all of the additional information that's being requested I mean I'm not saying that has to happen but I just want to point out that it's set to expire tomorrow so depending on timing we'll try to do an extension or it may come back as a new contract if um we need to do it that way okay all right so um do we have to vote on the table yes yeah and just point of clarification that Marissa may or may not be able to answer in order to take it off the table does it have to be bought off the table by the person that made the motion to table it do you know the Robert Robert's Rules of Order thing I think it does I think it does too so we don't need an answer to it unless you know I don't know okay sorry yep I don't mind but I mean to be safe councilwoman more if you will just you can make the motion to table I move to table uh consent agenda item Au first extension of the contract between the city of Bron and Bron area Economic Development Corporation are you tabling it to a Time certain or a specific date or 90 days I think it should be next meeting next meeting is that sufficient for the attorneys that are I mean it would be sufficient for us I don't know if it's if you it's really up to the EDC because we're going to have to obviously talk about points with them see if they're able to come to the meeting to do the presentation so okay um legal side yes we're fine with that okay I will please table it to our next city council meeting and that date is madam clerk January 22nd January 22nd 2025 is there second second all right start the vote inward four yes five yes one yes two yes three yes carries five to zero thank you Madame clerk at this time I'll administer the oath anyone wishing to address city council during the following public hearing will please stand and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the factual statements and representations which you are about to present to this board will be truthful and accurate thank you good morning mayor and city council and happy New Year good morning Happy New Year I will do a quick introduction and I'm going to turn this case over um I'm Greg dong the assistant director of planning Community Development you have in front of you today resolution 25-1 which is a special use case su. 24.1 you may be wondering why that numbering looks so strange but that is because of our new Estella software so you're going to see some odd numbers for the next few months coming through um this is a special use request to permit a sidewalk cafe with alcoholic beverages at 424 12th Street West um Mr Jim Miller is the agent this is cork Cigar Bar he is here today with his daughter Megan and I'm going to turn it over to them to talk a little bit about their project and what they're proposing to do um this is another one that we're just really re-upping um the conditions that are going on over there so I'll turn it over to Mr Miller right now good morning if you can please state your name for the record good morning Jim Miller 424 12 Street West thank you welcome and we're here to renew our Cafe license we've had for probably 17 years we've been in business 17 years but I like everybody on the street has to do it now which makes sense to me thank you Jean for pushing us to do that and city council does anybody have any questions of me it's we operate this we've been operating the same way we have uh served out front we've got tables uh and we kind of police our own stuff we got to make sure everything goes according to the city's ordinances which we do uh we've been doing it for a long time and we'd like to continue to do it any questions yes ma'am Miss Bary um Mr Miller and I'm sorry my mic is not working right now so put it on his maybe it'll work hey I was a cheerleader in high school and college if you can't hear me you you really need to see your audiologist usually sound like my wife so my question is and this may be a question for for Public Works you're requesting to allow the furniture to remain on the sidewalk when the building is closed are you currently doing that we've been doing it for a long time and we lock it up at night so nobody can take it right and so when our Public Works Crews come in to do the cleaning that they do early in the morning we haven't had a problem with being able to clean in front of your property and you're happy with what we're doing and your furniture is fine absolutely nobody's I mean I see the guys in the morning on way to work I waved them okay they're doing a good job great glad to hear it that's all I needed to know you you're welcome all right thank you you're welcome so as previously mentioned this is for a Sidewalk Cafe I'm not going to run through the previous slides they're just Maps um this is in the downtown area but um as Mr Miller stated he is requesting to uh ree keep um the furniture outside which is which are six t uh tables 10 chairs and set seven Stadium type seats out there um they have no busing or Hostess stations out there and again this would be a stipulation for approval if you do decide to allow for him to keep the furniture out there on the size of the area is about 10 ft by 25 ft in width here our photos actually to help out Maryann um our councilwoman um Barnaby with the uh the furniture and how it's locked up at night and it is pushed up against the building so and here is how it looks during the daytime when the business is open and this PowerPoint presentation was um submitted with the uh with your granicus submitt I'm hoping that helps you guys out um been preparing for these meetings um sidewalk cafes in the land use or I'll go back a little bit here um this is a definition of a Sidewalk Cafe a Sidewalk Cafe is a establishment where food and beverage is served from an adjacent cafe or restaurant um where it is has alcohol outside or if it does have alcohol outside it kicks it to a um a special use according to our land use regulations because sidewalk cafes without alcohol um with under 20 seats are permitted use and the t40 T5 T6 districts are which are primarily downtown area um again if this is approved um you know they will have to make sure they have all their licenses we'll make sure they have their indemnification agreement complete um and again everything will be in compliance and Mr Miller has done a great job in doing that over the the course of time so we do appreciate that our comprehensive plan does encourage these types of uses in the downtown area um I do have that underlined under uh policy 1.1.1 number two um it also talks about making sure um the sidewalk designs um maintain a clear 5 foot width um for uh traversible space which they are proposing to also do this is out of the land use regulations it just talks a little bit about sidewalk cafes and really where it kicks it into the special use process and um which brings it in front of city council um it talks about you know maintaining the seats keeping the sidewalks clean um everything else which they will be required to do and which they have been doing over the course of the past 17 years um here's some more information under that under maintenance here's the indemnification agreement under 4.3.1 111.3 um which we'll get that taken care of after this uh meeting today um and then here's just some more items related to the land use regulations for what identifies a sidewalk Cafe with alcoholic bever sales um special use section 3.3.1 in the land use Rags it appears all of these are met these were in the staff report there was responses to them um you know some of these can be met I would say 3.3 1.2 is a little difficult in the downtown area since it is a built environment to add a requirement for a 10-ft width um as a buffer that's a little difficult since we do have that built environment but for new developments that would be a requirement for them there are criteria to be reviewed under the land use regulations under 3.3.2 again they were listed here in the presentation um as staff reviewed them it looks like everything was was met um and then there are some questions that needed to be answered under 3.3.2 point5 and the applicant did respond to all of those staff did and in summary um for this case um city council is encouraged to evaluate through requests based on the pro provided criteria as well as input from staff the applicant and the public as you can see today right now we have um I don't believe there's anyone in the public here for it um it is in staff's opinion that this request is found to be consistent with the intent of the land use regulations 3.3.2 point5 and also the design element of the comprehensive plan um Planning Commission did meet back on December 11th of 2024 they did recommend approval they did add some stipulations to it which were recommended by staff um the vote was 5-0 I can run through all of these um if you want me to but it's primarily the same things we've been seeing on all of them um there is the stipulation on the six chair or six tables 10 chairs and seven Stadium seats to remain outside um you know keeping the sidewalk clear at at least 5et of traversable space um that meets adaa requirements um that they'll get their indemnification agreement that they'll post their site plan um that they have all their licenses these are some somewhat of a reminder for them if they do use any cleaning solutions beyond what the city is doing for cleaning the sidewalks in the downtown area that those uh Solutions are approved by our public works department and if there is any increase in the seating capacity outside that we will have to bring it back in front of city council for review and that is what I have for you questions see none will go to the public hearing chair we'll open the public hearing anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak hearing none we'll close the public hearing chair will entertain a motion Mr Mayor yes sir Mr Kramer move to approve resolution 25-01 with stipulations recommended by staff second all right we have a motion by Mr Kramer and I heard Miss Barnaby with my good right ear first I don't know if I like [Music] there um so we have a motion and second we've had discussion anything else hearing none we'll start the vote in award five yes one yes two yes three yes four yes carries five to zero thank you thank you very much and I'd like to give a quick update on all of these sidewalk cafes um we are working diligently with these Property Owners to get them into compliance um with this approval today we have six that are complete now um that puts us at six in the process we did resite five applications on December 30th Unfortunately they were incomplete so we're working with those Property Owners to get their applications complete to start through the process and we have four that are still outstanding we're going to do another sweep through through the downtown area just to verify everyone's still doing what they need to do and that they are not serving alcohol because we are hearing some people are now starting to serve alcohol that originally weren't so we need to just verify everything so we're in a good spot right now be done yeah within the first quarter of this year that's our goal is to get it done so we're we're actively working on it and I think we're in a good position right now okay thank you for Welcome All Right Moving Forward Madam clerk item 10B is the second reading and public hearing for ordinance 4055 an ordinance of the city of Bradenton Florida repealing Chapter 30 section 30-12 of the code of ordinances relating to inspection of certifications and returns by the city council and Declaration of election results providing for codification providing for repeal of ordinances and conflict providing for severability and providing for an effective date all right so any any comments we need to have on this Mr Perry or just yes is that okay just want to make sure can I comment yeah I didn't know if there was any staff comment oh than do you want to do that first is there anything the staff needs to say I don't think so but just to make sure okay now C well I just um in general don't like amending Charters willy-nilly and I don't know that I have a great feeling as why we're doing this and why would we originally requ requ ired to do it and I just don't like I just don't like revising the the charter so e so without more contemplation I'm sorry this is not changing the charter this is chaing our code of ordinances a charter change would need to go before voters okay so this is only taking out the rec or the requirement that we meet at noon the day after the election certif are certified by the campus because if people were out of town different timings different things falling on weekends falling during hurricanes so it's just given the opportunity to meet and to certify because the supervisor of elections could take one day or 20 days depending on vote counts and then we're on if it happened and they clarified it we could have to go on a Sunday at noon and we're just trying to make it a little bit cleaner okay if I may yes sor um I believe at one point possibly the city did handle their own elections and this is likely a holdover provision from when the city did but now we do not and we rely on the supervisor of elections so just to Echo what mayor said it's really it's almost it's more burdensome at this point in time because we are at the mercy of the supervisor of elections and then this requires us to do this date certain time certain next day um type situation where the supervisor of election certifies they they announce so um that's why it was I believe originally in there okay thank you but just to clean up so if we don't do exactly at 12:00 the next day MH we're you know we're set for a policy to to meet the board's availability within a couple days anyway it's right you know soon but okay may yes it is not as if we need after the board of of the supervisor elections meets the canvasing board meets it's not like we can say we don't agree with their results and we're not going to accept it um this I think I think uh Miss Powers is actually correct this the city of Braden used to hold their own elections they used to Count Their Own ballots this was just something that was in there and I I see it now more of a ceremonial thing but as our elections have gotten more complex and longer and it takes longer for the canvasing board to be able to certify them and for us to have to be that Nimble to get everybody back here the next day by noon and as you remember with what's happened with the storms and things sometimes that's not the easiest thing to do and I don't think any of us want to be in violation of an ordinance that is primarily ceremonial okay all right thank you so is that a motion to approve M CER certainly is second Mr Mayor we have a public hearing we have a public hearing sorry chair will open the public hearing anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak hear none we'll close the public hearing chair entertain a motion motion to oh gosh ordinance 4055 to approve ordinance 4055 second all right we've had discussion we'll start the vote in Ward one yes two yes three yes four yes five yes approve five to zero Madam Clerk item 10 C is the second reading and public hearing for ordinance 4056 an ordinance of the city of Bradenton Florida amending chapter 54 Article 1 Section 54-12 of the city's code of ordinances relating to unlawful lodging outof doors revising definitions amending procedures for relocation and enforcement providing for enforcement mechanisms providing for codification providing for repeal of ordinance and ordinances and conflict providing for severability and providing for an effective date okay is there staff that's to talk about this I can talk about it Mr Mayor this is uh this is an ordinance that we prepared um in response to the recent legislation regarding public camping and essentially it just aligns our verbiage with the language from the new statute and it'll be something that will flow into with what we're working with the county on lodging that they're doing through the women shelter that the County's working on Salvation Army the um Fresh Start manate I believe it is that they're doing so the ordinance that's out there that we have to do until some of that stuff is done we can't we can start working with them but we got to find lodging for them right this so This provides for the potential for the county to provide a a place and then that would be recognized in the ordinance right now we have beds at Salvation Army but unfortunately they fill up quick yes the future will will have multitude of beds where they could do it so because I have people that are calling me and saying why aren't we enforcing it and some of that and we're going to be you know working towards that but it's also working towards a you know you have a place to go if you don't want that place to go then here's your second option here's your third option and first option is to get them help and that's what all of us want to do so all right so any questions by Council before we go to public hearing I think I have a question um how does this apply to um individuals that are literally living on the streets and have been for years and they have their big grocery carts full and all of that and they land at some place and you know we can only say you know move to move around the corner or whatever but it will affect I think giving them the opportunity to to go to a shelter area once it's available or option b may be jail or option C maybe be uh you know we'll send a ticket or maybe auction B would be you know we'll get you a place to go with your family and then the ultimate option would be you can't stay here and that's that's State Statute now that's I know but there's still no designated area for oh they're going to have a designated area that'll be at the other than jail no no it's not jail it's going to be a it's going to be a facility like pinel's hope or things like that so they're going to have to make a decision you know and and obviously the first two will be positive decisions the other will be you know you can't keep you know that and again it's not that's where Dr Marbut came in has done studies the counties extensively done it they talked about it yesterday Sheriff Wells talked about it and you know we hope it's within months to give people opportunity to succeed I I have a few um situations where people are beginning to call me a lot um there I just don't know what to do if I could just maybe comment on that briefly if you look under section two subsection D that basically highlights the the options that the police officer has um in enforcing the ordinance as it relates to finding a probable cause and ultimately disposition within that subsection D combined with subsection f is a provision on personal property so if you you know it's common when we're dealing with homeless people that they have their personal belongings either in a shopping cart or otherwise the short version of this ordinance is it basically requires the police officers to invent for the benefit of that individual it creates What's called the bailment in law and there's a 60-day period where it would have to be claimed by so just that kind of addresses the specifics of your question I hope that's helpful and I read I did read that and I understood that I just kind of wanted to know well where's this designated area that they're going and where's the area that their belongings are going to be stored that was really and my en vision of it and maybe Paul can help a little bit of the police department part but I envisioned it's going to go with them for the most part unless it's sometimes it's like really packed uh to this one gentleman has two grocery carts I mean he's got it packed strategically though it doesn't fall out or anything but um Mr JIS yes uh as far as U what you said mayor's correct depends on the volume of what they have if it's you know not a lot then we you know we we can help and with that but we also partner with the Salvation Army to take care of the large quantities of belongings um and they have basically we worked with the the city to get some um the bins that are used yeah that people put their garbage and they're recyclables in and we put locks on them and we have those at the Salvation Army that officers have keys too and they have keys too so we can store some of their property there and in in my area can think of two they're more but there're at least two gentlemen they have a lot so just worried about there belongings and where it would be but right all right so we've had discussion we'll go to the public hearing public hearing is open anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak hearing none we'll close the public hearing chair will entertain a motion Mr Mayor yes sir move to approve ordinance 4056 second all right we have a motion by Mr gramer and a second by Miss Barnaby to approve ordinance 4056 we'll start the vote inward two yes three yes four yes five yes one yes approved five to zero Madam clerk item 10d is the second reading and public hearing for ordinance 4057 an ordinance of the city of Bradenton Florida amending part one charter and related laws subpart B related laws Article 4 police officers retirement system of the code of ordinances of the city of Bradon Florida amending section 26 diver R deferred retirement option plan providing for severability of Provisions providing for codification repealing all ordinances in conflict herewith and providing an effective date all right anyone wishing to speak on this this is the the drop uh yes mayor this is the uh the collective bargaining agreement negotiations that took place in first reading we we discussed the the ordinance needed to be changed and this would just codify the uh agreement any comments Mr rudisel before we go to the public hearing all right we'll open the public hearing anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak close the public hearing the chair will entertain a motion Mr Mayor yes sir Mr Kramer move to approve ordinance 4057 second Miss Coachman all right any other comments hearing none we'll start the vote in Ward three yes four yes five yes one two yes approved 5 to zero at this time we're going to uh recess and I'm going to now what do we have to read Mr rudisel do you have to read something to go into our yes Mr Mayor first first we're gonna have Miss Dyson come down good afternoon thank you for recognizing me I'm Sasha Dyson I represent along with my partner hearing the city of Bradington in a lawsuit that's been filed by the police unit the PBA and we request a session with Council because we need advice related to this litigation okay do we have to read anything else or that's yes Mr Mayor you need to read the I I would just go ahead and read the agenda item because you're required to read the names of all the people that will be attending the the session as well as the um estimated time of the session so do I have to read it yes you do sir all right notice is hereby given pursuant to Florida statutes section 2861 parth 8 that the city council for the city of Braden in Florida will hold a closed attorney client session to discuss settlement negotiations and strategy related to litigation expenditures with regard to pending litigation between the city of Bradenton and the Florida police benevolent Association case number 24111 d026 27 the persons attending the meeting will be mayor Jean Brown councilwoman W one Jane Coker councilwoman W two Maryann Barnaby councilman Ward three Josh Kramer councilwoman Ward four Lisa Gonzalez Moore councilwoman Ward five Pam Coachman attorney Sasha tyon and a court reporter Dave thoris the meeting is is expected to last approximately 60 minutes thank you and we'll be in recess all right the attorney client session has ended and we're now proceeding back to our normal public city council meeting at 11:14 a.m. Mr Perry thanks mayor we' had on the agenda um emergency purchases however we have not had any um submission of emergency purchases for approval um the statute requires that if there is emergency purchase uh that I sign that I bring it to the attention of the council at the next council meeting but there had been no emergency purchases since the uh submitted to me since the last council meeting so that matters move I just want to give a quick update on uh on where we're at with Haggerty and as you remember haggy is the FEMA reimbursement consultant uh that we have retained to ex ex help us basically with u the entirety of our storm reimbursement efforts and it's obviously tedious work in this type of uh storm season with three different storms and certain requirements and certain calamities and cost associated with each individual storm and there's different dead lines and rules surrounding those storms but we had a meeting with uh with Hagerty yesterday and they their contract with them will which is I believe $187,000 was the initial contract and when you think about it um we've got probably about $7 million in in uh uh debris cleanup cost maybe a little bit more even between the two contracts that we use that's called category a debris removal we'll have a significant uh portion in category B of feema compensable cost which is going to be uh pre uh protective measures that that'll be significant and include payroll and things like that both of those categories the the the A on the debris can be 100% reimbursed if it's all completed in a timely manner for both storms within the rules and the documentation is appropriate that process as far as submitting that is is an expedited project it's called we get 50% of the money up front now there's 100% compensable but we get 50% of it upfront that's kind of important to recog I was going to say why is that important Mr Perry from past storms yeah because usually it can take quite some time to get the full reimbursement from FEMA um there there are things believe it or not you know hurricane Sandy that hit the middle the Mid-Atlantic SE SE section of the United States there there still dealing with FEMA I I talked with some people I think it was Pittsburgh that was was telling us we still have FEMA claims in and the like um it's not uncommon I me generally it's quicker than that but but four four years isn't particularly out of the question for FEMA to get through everything and and sometimes it's a process where you get some of it um in payment and and and it's a series of payments that you'll get for reimbursement so with these category A and B matters basically that's important will then move move on to what we call permanent work which is going to be the category C through G things like utility things like roadways things like Parks um and a host of other spec specified categories as relates to permanent damage and one of the things that we had to put in a deadline for it was the per the permanent damage report and hagerty's Report was very good our paperwork looks really good so far which which is very promising we'll probably continue with Hagerty with an extended contract because it does it we had to procure that contract on an emergency basis perhaps the best $187,000 that we've spent considering how much is at play and believe it or not that's even reimbursable by FEMA the 187 um we we've also obtained uh uh through fdm uh a documentation specialist as well that was requested by me um as a mission during the storm itself knowing that we were going to be hit with a lot of cost when I was out there at P doing that job one of the things we requested was a documentation specialist kind of strange that they didn't kind of come into the scene till I probably a couple about a month or so ago yeah and everything but we actually requested it during it speaking with Paul sadell who's the f fdm um recovery expert uh from from fdm and what does does that mean Mr Perry fdm uh Florida Department of Emergency Management so you have Federal FEMA up top Florida Department of Emergency Management County Emergency Management and then City Emergency Management there's obviously several layers that uh that are integrated into the overall um Emergency Management program and and and even through the national Incident Management System and IC command and control when you look at operations planning Logistics and things like that but on the reimburse side um you know it it can go through these different channels the good news is is that Hagerty says our paperwork is in really good shape we do have those expedited projects that should return the a large portion of the funding expedited projects are generally going to be about 50% or what your what Your frock rating is and and your frock rating ours is is pretty good it's it's like 51% I think it goes between 49 and 51 so you can go either way you can go with your frock rating if you had a frock rating at like 6 and what is frock uh Florida Recovery [Music] operations obligations yep yep and that's through fdam which is Florida Department of Emergency Management right um and and so it it really doesn't matter on that one way or the other we'll get 50% of the money uh and that and that's a good thing and we would imagine in talking with hagry the other 50% particularly on the categories a a and b will be fairly quickly there after when you say fairly quickly a year maybe two um you know it depends I guess on the multitude of what you're including in there but uh you know again we will continue with Hagerty will put a contract out for RFP for um consulting services for FEMA and other grants and Hagerty Hagerty has been very impressive um as it relates to not just handling with FEMA but how it continues on to access other grant opportunities as well both through FEMA through other other federal agencies and the like and they have a great deal of expertise in in in in where those grants are what's required to access them how to access them and then how to administer them I think and the county has been very uh has used Hagerty and has been very impressed from the reports I've gotten so you know as expensive as it is when you have a storm season like this and you have these types of things we don't have full-time staff to have an accounting department with expertise in in in FEMA recovery we have some folks that are doing it Rebecca Desh is one of them doing an awesome job the individual we hire to Public Works David Lindsay has been doing a really good job on compiling organizing Gathering all of this um submitting it to haity for review and ultimately through to FEMA for submission but that's the that's the cost of an emergency management program and a reimbursement program and so you know we're going to continue on with Hagerty hopefully um that contract will come to you when it goes to RFP for this as well as expansive uh uh Services related to both damage from the storm as well as other probably infrastructure opportunities is the best way to put it any questions of Mr Perry no but can I make one comment sure um I just want to kind of reiterate what Mr Perry said about Rebecca Dash David Lind they also want to put Corey in there as well absolutely I'm remiss I apologize but but you know the three of them have really done a phenomenal job for you with mayor Council and and I know for Mr Perry and myself we're very proud of the three of them um in addition to that we have Don Brunner who has taken on and worked with purchasing to to Sol solidify uh vendors to be able to go out and do some assessments on our on our properties and um really it was a it's been a great team effort um hager's done a great job to help us make sure that you know all the tees are crossed and eyes are dotted we have the right paperwork in um just very proud of of the team and the work that we've done and we're definitely ahead of the game and I would venture to say ahead of you know quite a few municipalities and and counties that are out there dealing with the same thing so yeah that's something I'll say something that with our whole team obviously um and I think some of us were up here and obviously all of us were around but a couple years ago it took us nine 10 months to get all of our yard debris picked up we were done before the end of the year and well within the 90 days for 99 % of it you know I mean there's still always some one-off stuff but but that's stuff we can get so I think to our team you know to our Administration down to everyone that was involved you know it it was a great job I mean and and people as we know you know they forget that last moment they're looking at well now there's still a washer and dryer in front of my house well that's not a washer and dryer from from the storm it's just one that gets out and I mean obviously councilwoman Moore knows more than anything um how many people in her neighborhood still aren't in their house you know a lot so this is not something that's over and it's something that's going to go on for considerable amounts of time so I just you know the public out there looking at it especially if you weren't affected that much you know okay everybody was affected a little bit but if you were affected you know and more people were affected from Helen than Milton at the the most point of actually being out of your house and I think that's that's what people got to remember and look at so um great job you know and I just think that the it was a great team effort and the City of Bradenton has a great team all the way around all right anything else Mr Perry just briefly of course we have um a legislative delegation meeting tomorrow tomorrow um believe it's 8:30 start yes and uh we'll be ready to go with that what we're going to put an emphasis on is IR is water utility um Wastewater yeah I don't know if he was leaving but he might needing com we've been working on that a lot as far as you know I talked a little bit earlier when we were talking about the wastewater treatment facility and um expanded treatment and advanced capacity to handle some of these excessive flow flows that we've had but um uh Colonel Lee and and and Brandy and Kim and their staff have put together pretty good plan that we look to unroll to you guys pretty quick I apologize I would have lik to actually had it rolled out previously like okay what could you include in the first 25 million so to speak and what does it where where would you put it what does it do how does it work that kind of thing what's the ultimate impact of it and uh the good news is the ultimate impact is that it allows us basically to to have a much more functioning system um for a variety of different reasons I won't get into a lot of detail but that's that's what we look at trying to do councilman Coker actually I changed my mind save it woman's proga yeah all right um any department heads before I go to council reports anything special nothing all right um we'll start in Ward one yeah um actually not much but um a family uh a member of our community one of the things I've always long loved about our community is our Deep Roots and and the multigeneration and uh this this week we lost someone and the family has really kept it very um quiet but I did have permission to mention that fa boid did pass away this week and she's been a long time Community member and on multiple boards I mean I could never um give you the list but um it's a it's a big loss and um I just want to extend our thanks to the family for having such a wonderful um Legacy leaving us that Legacy and um just um expressing my condolences she will be missed she's one of the Steel Magnolias oh thank you Miss Barnaby thank you Mr Mayor um continuing along that um I think that the last time we got together I did not realize that these two individuals had passed uh one was Kenny Townson who actually was an employee of ours for many years and then went to work um for Larson engineering um but he was someone in the community that if you if you needed a hand he would lend it to you and I think he will be deeply missed as well as um Andy reasner of the uh the Pioneer Reasoner family if you like pink grapefruit you need to thank the reasoners um and Andy um passed away recently and and I would just like to remember him and his family also you've got the Manatee County Fair coming up starting January 16th um I have it on pretty good authority that our County Fair is what what what's the song our County Fair is the best great Fair don't miss it don't even be late so um remind you that that's that's happening on the uh opening day is January 16th and the Bradon Women's Club I don't know U Mr crr or councilman Kramer Vice May Kramer if you're going to speak about their fundraiser I feel free thank you um the brain and Women's Club is doing a fundraiser called It's A Murder Mystery Dinner called best laid plans and it is on Saturday uh January 18th beginning at 6 p.m. and tickets are available you can find them on their website um on their Facebook page and I'm sure that they would appreciate everybody uh coming out buying a ticket if you like historic old buildings they are trying trying to save that historic building that's over a 100 years old this is one of the ways someone in the community can help them do that and that's all I have thank you vice mayor Kramer thank you uh Happy New Year everybody from your vice mayor um I want to say I'm very happy to have gotten away for a little while during the holidays to go see family uh both in Ohio and Maryland friends in Washington DC um and I'm thinking of my family out in California who are close to being under evacuation orders and their another home they share with some friends is probably going to be in deep trouble here shortly so um pardon my summer mood but that's about it thanks thank you this more um I I have some other things to report on but I I have to bring up something that is going to be uncomfortable and um but I I feel like I have to tell you all um I I I don't know if I'm the only one I don't think I am but I was given materials regarding our the the interpretation and implementation of our emergency pay policy um and I will admit that I had incor incorrectly made some assumptions about that policy and how it was going to be uh interpreted and also implemented and I want to really reassure every staff member that I know that you did a lot of work I saw it I felt it um and it's so it's hard for me to criticize something at the same time and you know without diminishing my appreciation um but my concern is that because I misunderstood the policy I just want to make sure that if I was the only one that misunderstood it that's fine um but if wasn't the only one then I think it is a good idea for us to have a meeting so that we can discuss it and make sure that the policy is what we all think that the policy is um and and so I've talked to Mr Perry about this and and also Mr Herring and and I believe that we're you know going to be having a meeting that Mr Herring at this time believes is appropriate to be had in the shade but I to the extent that that maybe you know maybe Mr Herring says no we're not going to do that or what not I think that we need to have maybe it's a workshop maybe it's on an agenda that we more fully flesh out what exactly we intend with the emergency pay policy um after I'd received the materials I of course talked to Mr Perry and he brought and you know he suggested that we bring in Mr Herring which I of course always appreciate um my concern and but then I also did ask around about a few other M municipalities and um it can be done different ways we can express our appreciation um um without the way that the policy is currently drafted which I mean I'll just tell you the things I take exception to are the the the premium pay without taking into cons consideration whether the 40h hour work week has been um performed um I I've heard from other municipalities that sometimes they do it by virtue of acre time off which makes total sense to me because after you have been working non-stop 24/7 for 3 weeks a vacation that's paid seems appropriate um so it's not that I don't want to compensate and I should specify that I mean like higher level staff um it's not that I don't want to compensate it's just I I just think that it's fraught with potential issues and one of which is maybe even that FEMA might interpret our policy to be problematic in some respect depending on who's doing what kind of work or what not um so I I know it's Council corner I'm not going to like you know go off on a on a super large tangent but I would just suggest that we revisit that unless you all tell me no it's uh this is what I completely had an expectation of and and it's just you Lisa but anyways I I just again I wanted the staff know that I it's I know you all were working hard and I know that I you know I can attest to it I was there um but it just this was a surprise to me and and I I want to make sure that we are purposeful when we're being policy makers okay anything else um I mean sure but I feel like that's probably enough Miss Coachman oh go Dar it you're last this not a whole lot um boy this has been an interesting morning um I just want to say Happy New Year to everyone uh it's our first meeting actual regular meeting for the year and boy oh boy did we start off with a bang um I just um want to say um I I I'm getting less complaints about debris which is great I'm hearing more though about homeless camping um and um and one of our Parks is being kind of taken over like the previous that we had to um we're going to redesign um and the next thing I just wanted to ask if anyone else has gotten any inquiries about what we're going to do with the old Station 2 if you have then I guess maybe we need to have a discussion because I don't know why I've been asked that maybe two or three times what what what do you mean um the the fire station station I'm sorry I just said station too didn't I fire the fire station I mean there there people already chomping I guess at the bit yeah that'll be something that'll come up as we get out into the new opportunities whether it's with the Historical Society whether it's with you know it's going to be have to become up in it'll have to be surplused first I guess probably in a way or and brought to still it right now um but yeah that stuff that'll as we process into the new one that'll come up for discussion and just one other thing uh because of the Hurricanes uh the Angola Festival uh was postponed and I received recently or I've seen on Facebook a flyer um saying that the festival will still go on and it'll be March 15th and 16th and I'll I'll forward this to to Tiffany or someone so that maybe it can be placed on our uh Facebook page um but I just wanted everyone to know and kind of plan accordingly because the festival will still go on that's it War five is alive all right thank you um obviously wish everyone a Happy New Year things are going on it's you know even though holiday was there it was kind of a when you have a Christmas in the middle of the week on a Wednesday and New Year's on a Wednesday it's a hard two weeks and um one of the things that I know is still coming up is obviously Paving and sidewalks and lights on Manatee Avenue um that project was originally slated to be done sometime June July of this past year with some contractor issues and then storm issues they got delayed and now it's supposed to it was originally scheduled now to be done by the end of January and I think they're still on Pace for that um um and over the two weeks from what I when I talked to the Secretary of our district here for um LK nadam he said basically asphalt and concrete plants shut down the whole two weeks so they couldn't do any work when there's no asphalt or concrete and so that should be gearing back up and I'm still planning on they're said by the end of January the most Parts you won't have it and then they will come back and raise the the uh man whole covers up and that's part of the whole project so all of that's going um sticking with traffic I want to bring up a couple of of areas that have been addressed to me about stop signs um four-way stops three-way stops and that one of them will be in River Isles and one of them will be in village of the Arts so um when we we go through a process that we have a traffic committee and they look at it and they look at traffic counts um and some some of these areas the traffic counts maybe at one more in the morning might meet it or at night might meet it but when you look at a 24-hour period it doesn't meet it but when you look at a safety issue when you've got and and River Isles is like a private neighborhood you know it's not it's not a through Street and their president has been asking for a long time and I just thought it was brought up and I mean there is some executive orders we can do there is some by Council vote that um and I think it was a little bit more prevalent when there was debris there too people walking on their streets and that neighborhood mostly walks um and they were worried about not only some of the neighbors but also the delivery trucks as we know you know and you won't I won't pick on one but FedEx ups and Amazon are delivering a lot more daytoday Home Products so those vehicles are on the road and they're going aggressively in there and there's no way we can have a police officer sit there 247 but that Community has asked us to put a stop sign but it doesn't meet the count number so I'm asking maybe councilwoman more it's been the president of their Association been asking for over a year yes that if we could get a motion to approve a stop four-way stop there and if the council pleasure and again it's not to go against traffic committee because this is an area that doesn't go through traffic you know I mean it's and but but but when you're talking about you know I was in there quite a bit with the storm debris and saw their neighborhood is a walking Community but they don't feel safe so you know um the traffic committee has it and they're just asking for two stop signs so have a four-way stop about them so I don't know how you feel about that I do they have I do I they have also asked me several times too for the additional stop signs and um I was deferring to the traffic study mainly because I I have a sense without really having confirmed this that it's in the realm of possibility that sometimes you can put a stop sign and it's actually the dangerous thing to do um but if there's no if there's nothing other than just like it's not needed um then I would heartily support they have been asking for some time and I think to your point it's a 55 plus community and they would feel safer and I think sometimes that's worth doing it's not on a do Road it's not you know so it's in I would love to help them with that so could I get a motion yes I so move please is there a second all right you're not seconding no I'm any other discussion I'm joking are those consider are those it's all good consider private roads and do we have any I think they're city right away just making um I guess um this happening so quickly um what is the um reasoning behind the traffic Community not doing it just because they only have that one criteria right there's not maybe Mr Colonel Lee could give a little bit but there's not enough you know when they go over a 24-hour period and Josh may know more about that too but you know sometimes safety should play into it not just the number of vehicles I I went through this before because there were multiple accidents very close to the funeral home on 7th and 45th that was not a stop a four-way stop and there were accidents but they wouldn't allow it and I don't know and again we're not trying to supersede it but if it's not going to have the criteria in my opinion now needs to be readjusted yes sir uran Le Public Works director um the the warrant the the counts that you're talking about we we normally justify a a four-way stop with with a warrant based on the the not the amount of traffic um because what we what we're talking about here what we're trying to avoid is those geometric accidents which which can uh you know getting somebody T-boned uh can can be even at relatively low speeds can can and say even in a 55 plus Community um it's the pedestrian traffic I believe that's the the challenge here not necessarily the the the vehicular uh element so again uh if if that is your desire um you know the the committee I I'm pretty sure has already evaluated this and this was a Traffic Safety Committee not just Public Works Transportation folks but it's the full spectrum of Public Safety Professionals in the city and they've looked at it and their decision was that there wasn't a a warrant that the the the traffic and the orientation of that particular intersection didn't warrant the highest form of traffic control that we can offer which is a stop sign so well and again I think that they look at the numbers and talking to uh some of the those members they felt that it did but it didn't meet the numbers so they were going by their criteria so I I hope you know again this is not to to make you know unsafe it's to make the people that live there feel safe and obviously they got to have education too if they're you know don't cross just because there's a stop sign you know you got to look at making sure that delivery truck is stopping at that stop sign and and one of the other ones that we did um we almost had a police officer killed and I've heard no complaints only compliments about the four-way stop we put at by Manatee High School and the safety of the children so three E Yeah engineering yeah enforcement and education so those are the things that that again if if your direction uh to your public works department is to you know to put a four-way stop in there uh if that's your pleasure then give us the necessary Direction and and of course we'll make that happen again just so you understand the the the rationale that we're not we're not questioning that it wasn't but I just think the number count has become so overwhelming that that might not be the only reason Mr May yes ma'am um with regards particularly to River Isles and Braden River Lakes I can remember when there were not traffic lights on Manatee Avenue State Road 64 because fdot kept saying it doesn't meet the numbers it doesn't meet the numbers and we had fatal accident after fatal accident after fatal accident at both of those places to the point my first year on the no I asked the district secretary Point Blank how many people do we have to get killed there before we get a light I understand that we have we have criteria we have numbers we have all of this scientific stuff that can tell us how things go however I get very frustrated when citizens come to me and say please help us this Road's a drag strip or and and forgive me and I'm not picking on FedEx or UPS but they use my street as a cut through from Manatee Avenue to get and they they have so many packages they have to deliver within an hour to to keep their job jobs and they go down my street like a house of fire and I can see how that could be very disconcerting I mean I have to laugh everybody every time somebody says it's a 55 and older community and I remember thinking oh I'd never live in one of those well I could now I qualify and as they get as people get older they don't move as quickly and the reaction 's getting out of the way of something don't say it Soo late so yeah I know he he leaned over and whispered something to the vice mayor and and grab your stress ball grab your stress ball so all I'm saying is is I appreciate that we have the Safety Committee I appreciate them for what they do sometimes I think they feel their hands are tied because if it doesn't if if this is the slot and what they have to work with doesn't fit right in that slot they feel like they can't override it and say but we think with human nature it's a safer choice I think that was kind of my point is maybe we need to take a look at the policy or the criteria I don't necessarily like willy-nilly the person that's that barks the loudest has the the ear of counsel or whatever I I like keeping those decisions at that level but maybe we need to have a way where Public Safety is moved up in in criteria you know in ter terms of importance I don't know but um and and I don't have any problem with giving them a four-way stop I just I just don't have not a lot of knowledge of it and so I'm just doing it because somebody asked you know Vice May kmer uh colon Lee the Traffic Safety Council still deals with countywide issues right they not just City related I'd have I don't want I don't want to Corn you into that but I'm pretty confident that's primarily yeah I mean we have people Representatives but I'm pretty sure we have some of order there is countywide um I would say not necessarily this one because I don't think a lot of people are cutting through River aisles but to sort of echo your comments technology in a lot of ways is changing how we get around and I know if I have any appointments southeast of here especially during rush hour the route it's telling me to go is down 14th Street and cut down 13th Avenue through Village of the Arts well when I leave school at Manatee and 40 39th it's telling me to cut down 7th Avenue as soon as I can basically to avoid the backup at 15th so a lot of these surface streets that weren't main arteries are becoming main arteries now and um I think some of that we can't we can't necessarily wait for counts to rise or whatever so I do understand I understand the position you're in fully and your staff are in that sit on those not you but your staff are in sitting on those but it's councils the liability issues and the things that come up from uh insurance companies to and the the folks who who have to indemnify you know the the the the patterns that result uh they're the ones who who again would would come back and and why those criteria are established as a result of those kinds of activities you know hey you you you've got to um match the the system that you have with the uh uh the willingness or the ability to Pro to uh again protect slash uh support those who who wind up on the opposite side of that who who wind up in one of those accidents who has run a stop sign and caused an accident or has been injured as a result so so those those but injured because somebody ran a stop sign Mr rudisell what is your opinion on stop signs and people running them and us being us being bad you do that I think that's a bad us us being sued because somebody ran a stop sign and caused an accident well I mean generally the council is protected by immunity when it makes a planning level decision on things like this but at the same time you do want to have your professional support when you make a decision um on a traffic control device so um in this instance it sounds like and and maybe what we need to do is is just have some information to confirm this but it sounds like the the proposed stop was not approved because it didn't meet the the warrants but it's not going to create safety issues and I guess maybe that's the question that goes back to the committee is is is there a concern about is there a safety concern about putting us stop sign there even though it doesn't meet the warrants and again if it is your decision for us to to do just that to go uh counter to to the criteria or what the committee uh recommended that we have a neighborhood that's been asking us for a stop sign for a couple of years somebody gets run over because we didn't put a stop sign there are we liable that way no again planning level functions like that are there the city council has immunity from those types of decisions Mr Perry Mr Perry just I I agree with Scott but you know generally speaking for for roads liability and and really what you look at is is the traffic engineering manual the T it's called fdot has a t the county probably has a t we have a t a lot of places have it um and and it's it's a guideline that that's all it is is a guideline that looks at the best design from the perspective of traffic safety pedestrian safety roadway safety and things like that there's certain things that are more Harden fast in the temps about where you basically would create um congestion by putting too many signalized intersections in front of one of the other and things like that what Colonel Lee was talking about is the other consideration is there is about liability generally speaking under tort claim practices against government um negligent design construction operation and maintenance so the four categories where you can pierce the veal to to the liability protections that are provided under sovereign immunity and so when you have something like this and you build to the standard you're in better shape because you went through the planning standard but that's not to say you can't do what what what you're requesting in particularly in certain areas and so I I think quite frankly you know when you're looking at something like River Isles it doesn't pose that much of a risk would be my opinion when you start to get into more complicated congested highspeed a lot of traffic type of collision activity pedestrian injury areas and you start tinkering outside that book you're running a bigger risk of that and and that would be my two cents and I have done some defense on that side of the the negligent operation maintenance you know and I go back to looking at obviously New Year's Day in New Orleans you know they had opportunity to do something and didn't we have an opportunity to do something and I'm not comparing that that's terrible tragedy there but this is a smaller opportunity that and I'm going to bring up another one also that may get more scrutiny than this one but but you know I saw it and I've seen it in 36 years as a funeral director of when maybe something could have happened and somebody could have been proactive but because it didn't meet the traffic counts you know and how many people have to get hurt or die before that including one of our officers that got T-boned that if it would have been a four-way stop he would have been doing he was doing right and somebody ran a stop sign but maybe if he'd had been stopping at the other stop sign it might you know and again that wouldn't we can do a lot of wh ifs but I think we've beat this one as much as we could so we have a motion to approve with the the stop sign at the I don't have the exact street cross street but I know the traffic we're being asked to make a decision and I don't have any idea about about this place where it's at it's on River what the situation is and so that's what that's my problem with the way this is going is to do something like this and I don't have right but it's it's a four-way adding a two stop signs on River Isles Boulevard at Oakleaf I think Oakleaf Oakleaf so their neighborhood has a four-way stop and it's where you turn to go to their Clubhouse and it's I know never been there I think I think that the issue and I appreciate youting data um I think that the issue is if I could just like sum it up is um normally the committee would have done this study to determine how much traffic was there and whether they had to whether they had a safety issue that had to be mitigated by placing a four-way stop sign there um the counts don't warrn that and I think the competing interest outside of any other safety issue you know like is does it obscure some Vision or something like that that if it created that okay that's a no-brainer we stick with the counts you know but outside of that the other consideration is creating traffic congestion and creating other traffic type problems this community because the just the nature of the community is such that they're not complaining about traffic they're com they are they are concerned about the the rate of speed and I think that really what they're asking for is to be able to lock eyes with a driver before they start to make that um that Crossing and so if the committee is telling me that there's no safety issue with putting the stop sign there then yes this community would very much like to see a stop sign there have they done that have they told us that there's no the only only thing that I got after two times of they've looked at it twice was it doesn't meet the traffic count I don't have the data in front of me but I I I anecdotally I've been told that yes this is uh when I I went over visited River Al right before the holidays and I was warned going in there that yes they had had a two times a couple couple times they they had asked for a four-way stop and and it did not meet once I just would ask in the future if we're going to be asked to make a decision so I would know about it I could drive by it or or have some information about it that's that's all I'm saying if because we're going to have this won't be the last one I'm sure oh we could put a roundabout there again and you bring up ma'am you bring up a great point there are more options out there for Traffic Control than just a stop sign what I what I mention to you a stop sign is the highest form of traffic control because you bring everyone to a stop and probably the least expensive at the moment because roundabout would be a little bit more expensive yeah my business is maintenance I whatever it's out there I've got to just be able to sustain and maintain it um and ensure that did take a level when we put it up so I I will I will act at your pleasure all right so we have a motion in a second do we have a second yes Miss says Coachman seconded it and we've had numerous discussions so I'll start the vote in W one yes two yes three yes four yes five yes approved five to zero now I'm going to bring up another one that I you know I'm not as passionate about at the moment but but I think it's something that we need to figure out um uh the middle of December I was invited to Village of the Arts to be Mr Claus and we had Mrs Claus with us and we sat at a residence on the corner of is that 12th or is that 12th and 13 12th Street and 13th Avenue which lines up directly with the cra's property entrance to the part temporary parking that you're allowing them to have so we are parking everyone there with the city of Bradington and CRA and that is start of the South Village basically and they're all there's not much to do in the South Village so everybody's coming to the North Village on 13th Avenue between Tamiami Trail and 9th Street we allow parking on the north side of the road so going west if you're facing west you park on the north side of the road the cars that were coming down that road which now becomes basically a one lane road so they're having to Z in and zag out and do all of that and I probably saw and there wasn't a lot of people there that day which is unfortunate but I probably saw sitting there half a dozen times where people started to cross the road because they couldn't see the around the the cars that were parked on the side of the road and it was like wait wait wait wait and because cars are coming on each other in a single Lane around that and I don't know so I don't know if I'm asking today or I'm asking for a deep dive should we not allow cars to park on that road should we put a three-way stop there um and that may be more of a a safety study and I would like a report back to this board quickly about what is an opportunity to do for that because it's scary there and people are taking advantage of like Mr vice mayor Kramer said getting off ninth when the traffic's there getting off Tamiami Trail and using 13th Avenue as a cut through now you say oh well they're using 17th as a cut through too but 17th doesn't have a walking Village in it and it doesn't have on street parking it doesn't have such so I think that I mean an easy solution to me just watching it is a a a three-way stop because it'll stop people and they'll decide either not to go there or at least have to stop and let the people be able to see and walk but or how do you tell that Community they can't park on that street anymore that's a harder thing to do miss Barnaby thank you Mr Mayor um there was numerous times when I would go to lunch at Bird Rock Taco when Mr shiplet had Bird Rock open and even with the people parking on the street because conventional wisdom is is if you allow people to park on the street cars are supposedly supposed to slow down and be a little more careful oh no they would go zooming down that street and and at artwalks in the evening because there's no crosswalk there that would that was even worse so I agree with you I think something needs to be done I think I would like to have something come back to say a a three-way stop with one of a functioning crosswalk I think that that is something that that we ought to look at we've talked and I I seem to remember um Miss Coachman Miss Coker you might have been there Mr Kramer I'm not sure if but um The Village came in and talk to us about the possibility of doing some sort of design there on the street so that it would look like a speed table similar to what we did over by um Westminster Manor on 21st because they thought it would you know it look artistic it would fit in and it would slow people down I'm not even sure that's going to work anymore from what I have seen recently and I would recommend that we get a project brought forward to us that says this is what we think's going to happen here because if you again you put you can put a a speed trailer out there you're not gonna get I don't think you get the true picture at that street at that time because it's I mean do you remember when we were cleaning up over there oh yeah and somebody went by and I was like please slow down lots of people and they're like I'm not going to do what they did to me Mr Kramer did you have any questions on that or you it's your W so I want to make sure we're going forward I think we've talked about apples and apples just different types of apples River Isles is a different Apple than or I guess we should say oranges here um then um village of the Arts but I would agree Village of the Arts is a very walkable Community as well U especially with a lot of visitors that come on certain dates we would want that to be as safe as possible but I think according to what Mrs Barnaby said I agree that a further study would be but quickly yes you I don't know you know again because I think we can wait and now that we've talked about it God forbid something would happen and you know again I saw it I mean it was my I got a pit in my stomach and the people were right but a car there was a car going east and the other car went was going or no this car was going west the other car coming east went up on the sidewalk to go around them well the people thought they had the right away because the car had passed they didn't see the other one and then right or wrong we went and got two cones Mr and Mrs Claus got two cones and put in the road so people were having to slow down you know because again that's the last thing I want to see I've seen that once in my life somebody get hit by a car when I was 12 years old and the little 10-year-old boy got killed and I mean it still makes me sick you know that it was the little boy's fault he ran out in front of a car but but you know it was it was terrible and I mean we've all seen other things and I'm again I don't want to go to the drama but those are the things that you just if we can do something that makes it safer and then accidents are still going to happen so um so I brought up a lot just happy New Year to everybody and I think there's some things we're going to keep going through so we can bring that back we had a meeting went on the 22 okay so so what I'm I understand you the your Traffic Safety Committee will do a study typically we it's the studies are long I'd like them to address it and if they need to come to us and tell us why what when or how okay that can be done because we know we're not a city of speed bumps and unless we vote up here to change that and I'm not I'm not ready to propose that um but in some areas the county is putting them all over now you you know yeah but the county doesn't have their own fire department that cost a million dollars a fire truck right so that that was been our one of our things so if we can do some of our traffic control and in the right way you know I think the one we did approve today was the right way for them but this is a this is more of a a regional traffic or is that the right term a local local that's going to affect connectivity contivity and but again a stop sign shouldn't make you not be able to go that way it should make you obey the laws circles are better huh circles are better but it's difficult to put traffic circles in residential neighborhoods all right um but thank you very much that's all I have anybody else for the good of the whole I just want to to say this I think we have numerous areas in the city especially in some of our older neighborhoods and uh for example I'm on Third Street between 13th a and and MLK when uh 301 is backed up people are flying through there and I cringe every day because my neighbors little girls ride their bikes on the little narrow sidewalk and and one of them has fallen into the street but fortunately a car didn't you wasn't coming as quickly as they do and it's every day I keep telling their dad when the park is redesigned we'll make sure there's something for them to ride safely because it's extremely dangerous I think we have numerous because I get calls a lot well and then that would not probably meet a traffic count study but is there a way to come up with is there a way to mate sa M mitigate a safety study there because a stop sign there's enough space between 13th and MLK put a stop sign halfway in between somewhere and and make it trying to figure that out yeah I'm saying and that and that again we're trying to mitigate some of the neighborhoods the kids and and if we go by engineering rules only we would have we might not still even have at River Isles Mrs Barnaby a stop sign you might not I mean it was yeah yeah because it doesn't meet the traffic count and and unfortunately and again that's this isn't trying to pigeon hole our engineering into a certain situation but sometimes those rules need to be looked at and made common sense about anyway I could keep going on that but um and I'm just going to say one last thing on Cortez Road between 26th Street and Tamiami Trail saying tamam Tam Miami Trail all of those stop signs or all of those cross walks yeah I saw within an inch of each other the other night the person had pushed it the lights were red the person was going and I'm screaming in the car no no no no because the cars aren't stopping so they're not stopping they go right through the red light when they're so you know those are the things that as pedestrians you've got to watch even though it's there so it's also a pedestrian responsibility and and then all the other ones that just don't even go in the crosswalk but yeah anyway so nothing else for the good of the whole we'll be Jed thank you