##VIDEO ID:35ZOUL1WVUE## myin now we already got tell me when you're ready ready let call the war the Bradley Beach land board meeting for December 19th please rise flag United States of America [Music] the 48 hour notice is required after the open public meeting SE has been met as noticed of this meeting was emailed on January 23rd 2024 and published in the S Forest the co-star and the coar a copy is from plac on Bon board in the B office and a copy has been filed with the B mayor Fox here Mr is excuse this evening um councilwoman mom here M DeMarco president uh chair mayor here Mr Mayor here Mr sh here M Riley here miss here miss berell here miss here Mr seith is excuse this evening and Miss R here thank you and also president Mark kri attorney of the board J fra our board engineer and Christine Bell our Boer thanks before we start some proced go some procedures Please be aware the meeting is enced for transcription public has asked not to interrupt comment or any way disrup the presentation or a meeting in in in general once the land use board opens an application the applicant or attorney will make their presentation with Witnesses and our professionals members of the board will ask questions and cross-examine these witness as need members the members of the audience will be able to ask questions of the applicant and Witnesses based upon only on the testimony given at the end of each witness's presentation at this time no comments testimony or evidence from the public will be accepted the board may call its own expert witnesses as needed once the applicant has concluded their presentation in the board opens the public comment portion of the application the public is welcome to comment pres present evidence and testimony regarding application each person must be sworn in on the oath and is limited to 5 minutes if desired the applicant May if desired the applicant may cross examine you based upon your comments or testimony more than one hearing is needed to complete an application it will be carried with you today no new application will start after 9:30 unless the board and applicant can agree to concluded in a timely manner the board reserves final decision the board will also adjourn at a reasonable hour and rarely will a witness be called after 10: p.m thank you okay the next order of business is the approval and Adoption of the meeting minutes from Marg a meeting of November 21st 2024 make a motion for approval second who was my second Mr Mayor yes mayor Fox yes uh Council money yes Mr Marco yes Miss sine yep uh Miss berau yes Miss Boer yes Mr sh yes and chair mayor yes thank you um we have two resolutions for memorialization resolution 2024-25 approval of both barans to retain a rib driveway Susan quinland Ry 7922 418 make a motion to approve I'll second that Mr Mayor yes M AR yes uh um M Marco yes Council Mone yes mayor fo yes M Corell yes Mr sh yes and chair mayor yes thank you resolution 20 24-23 approval of prian final major subdivision the B of Bradley Beach block 41 L one 39 Avenue Mr Mayor Miss s yes Miss berell yes miss boo yes Mr sh yes and chair May yes thank and Mark you want to address the board if I may please so um I just want to address the board this evening um I've been pretty fortunate in my career some UPS some downs but mostly ups but one of the things about what I do and what your other professionals do is we're add a lot at night for me this is my third meeting at night this week and what I want to do in 2025 is not repeat that two meetings but not through um so in evaluating that I decided that I will not be reapplying for my position here and this will be my last meeting uh so I want to and and and one of the things I would like to do on a Thursday night that I'm not here is I have have our first Grand job coming congratulations coming in a month and maybe that one night I'm freid be spending time with him so I wanted to let you know that and also let you know I really appreciate confidence you've had in me and appointed me all these years since 2014 um and I've enjoyed working with with do great work point on this and um you also have uh great engineering and planning staff here so I I thank you for all your efforts and U Christie we've known each other a very very long time we I'll miss seeing you here so but thank you for everything well speaking for the bo I can speak probably for everybody you'll be missed you have brought information wisdom guidance to us you're a professional we are learning every day every time we mon we greatly appreciate your input it's been more than welcome and truly you will be Miss all right we have a well one more thing before you before we have to get serious you weren't serious no I I also it's also the last meeting of the year and I also want to thank we have two members of our group who won't be coming back next year mayor Fox and I understand um I want to than both you for your input and your dedication to land board uh to greatly appreciate it again you'll be missed also and I'm sure you now the new uh group will come in and we'll go forward also again with that thank professionals uh they've done a phenomenal job especially see I I don't know how you do it but thank you again for this year and looking forward to 2025 thank you I know now now we hope the next attorney's ready for Kelly we do have cookies I'm sure I st on the last meeting all right so let's get to business uh the first application under consideration this evening is Luv 24/10 bu Varian is for construction of a paper patio hot tub Grill C walkway uh from the driveway to the garage and the applicant is Susan Ley block 21 lot 15 508 Ocean Park Avenue the applicant person VAR is for the proposed removal of the rear deck and a portion of the driveway leading to the garage as well as construction of a paper patio in the rear yard with a hot tub on the patio the proposed and C walkway from the driveway to the garage the proposed improvements require Varan for side and set back to the patio impervious coverage gr structure distance from the principal dwelling side and set spa and building separation from the spa the applicant is represented by Jeff beakman beakman Law Firm Ocean Grove New Jersey I represent the applicant Susan Ley uh as um your board secretary just indicated the the property address of ltin block property in an R1 Zone um as you can see by the survey and thank you Mr sh for having that up you can see by the survey um the existing actually if you don't [Music] mind thank you I thinkig this help so as you can see by the survey we already have a uh an undersized lot it meets a lot dep but it does not mean a lot withd it's already improved it's already got a structure of single family dwelling on it where you see uh the words lot 15 Lot 21 uh on the right side uh which is um um where the driveway is there's a bump out there's a air cond air condens there there's what's not not on the survey as a shed but it's actually a shower um and you'll see there's a garage in the back in the front you have a covered porch um you have a paper patio or paper walkways um toward the street and in the rear you have an existing accr ground level deck I don't usually come for the board on these type of applications but this application strictly is to remodel the exterior we're not proposing any changes to the conditions of the of the structures on the property other than what's on the ground um so the applicant is proposing to replace uh the wearing um set with uh forus paper patio uh she's looking to make some modifications around where that shed and AC area are towards what is identified as a frin garage uh and removing uh some imperious coverage there um and putting this in walkway but other than those improvements um there's no changes to the actual dwelling no changes to the proposed frame garage no changes to where the shower is um and there's no change to where that bump out is so with that I just wanted to give the board an an overview of what the application is um so you it sounds like there a lot of variances here but the reality is there's only a handful there are 17 that were noticed but 17 that were noticed based upon the review letter and the application but three of the varant three of the variants We Believe are not variances we'll discuss that tonight I I understand there is probably a difference of opinion from your engineer but however those conditions don't change with this application so we'll discuss those um there are nine variances that won't change at all lot size of 3,400 ft where 5,000 ft is required we have no choice here it is what it is there's nothing that's going to change there the 34 ft of width where 50 ft is required again that can't change here because the lot is a lot um the minimum front set back to the Belt to the dwelling 20.2 ft are existing and 25 ft required now that may or may not be a variance we didn't do a lot averaging on this application because we're not proposing any Improvement or addition to the to the dwelling um but again it's an existing condition we're not touching it we're not changing anything minimum front yard set back to the porch 10.3 existing 17 under the typical ordinance without L averaging would be required same thing we're not changing anything minimum side guard set back one uh one side and combined 7 ft to one side and 7.9 ft combined five and 10 would be required um other but for your lot average or your uh 10 and 20% requirement again no changes proposed there because we're not touching the dwellings um number of off street parking it's our position that one exists today um though my client will testify that they could fit two cars but from the standpoint of measurements one one only fits today uh two are required but there's really no change in our in our opinion on that item again we'll discuss that minimum re yard set back to an acccess structure of 2.2 ft that's the frame the frame garage we're not proposing any changes to what's existing and then minimum sidey set back to accessory structure 1.6 ft to that frame garage we're not proposing anything that changes so this leaves of the 17 variances five variances that we believe that we're asking relief the sidey set back to the patio 9 ft is the same as the existing deck so we're really swapping porest patio with what's already there the existing deck the client could just replace the the surface of the deck and do the same thing we're not proposing anything differently I can say however and you'll hear testimony that what we're proposing is actually an improvement um the applicant proposes to maintain the rear yard setback to the paper patio uh as as the deck has now there's 3.1 ft to the uh rear yard sorry the set back to the deck at the rear 3.1 ft again the applicant is proposing it'll be 3.1 ft we are proposing a variance for impervious coverage but it's a significant reduction from 87.5% to 79.6 2% and the applicant is proposing a 4ft setback to the hot tub we believe that a 5- foot setback is required under the ordinance she's proposing four um and Mr avakian's letter indicates a six foot setbacks required um and then the final variant is the minimum distance between a garage and accessory structure uh of 10 ft required we we have centered you'll see on the plan it's it's centered between the garage and the side Lot line so it's 5.62 ft between uh the hot tub pose in the garage and 5.62 ft to the side proper line um which again according to Mr Vin's I'm sorry Mr I keep saying V Mr freda's letter according to Mr freda's letter it requires 6 ft we are proposing 5.62 ft to uh the side yard but we believe the requirement is 5T because this is not a um so in a nutshell that is the application and I have two witnesses it's going to be Susan Ley who is the applicant owner and I also have Joseph kashuba uh to provide engineering and planning testimony so Mr bman first of all had the opportunity to review and notice everything's in order the board can accept jurisdiction thank and why we s everybody in Mr our professionals your right hand please you s or affirm to tell the truth full truth or nothing but the truth tonight's proceeding thank you so miss Le you are the owner of the property yes how long you own the property uh I've owned the property for just over years um and when you bought the property is that the survey that you obtained yes okay and as far as you know is that how the property has looked even before you bought it yeah um so I can when I bought it in 2020 if you go on Zillow actually you can see the listing the previous listing which was from 2015 and all the pictures from there and so you can actually see in 2015 it was it was exactly see the deck was there the shower was there the was there AC un was there um I I can't tell the pictures I can't swear that I know that the the was the AC there when you bought it yes and and that bum out on the right side of the property that that's existing that was already there yes and from the inside how does that look from the inside um so that bup out is actually where the B okay so does it look like it's probably original yeah yeah yeah yeah when I bought that's where the there a long time okay so if you could just describe um all right let's talk a couple things one of the variants is noted by the uh review letter from um indicat about a grill so let's talk about the grill what kind of Grill are we talking about right so um well I would love to have had kitchen that really wasn't feable on this small property so what i' love to do is have a grill on wheels that I canook natural gas me away from the house when I'm using the grill and then either store it next to the house in the summer or put it in the garage in the winter so it's not actually a fix to the house in anyway okay it's not going to be used right at that location okay so I think that probably removes a variance in your opinion is that your testimony um oh and I forgot to ask you uh your taxes are current cor yes they are okay um and can you just describe the existing driveway layout yeah so um um yeah that was that was a previous proposal the out kit and just obviously wasn't workable so what we have on the current plan that we proposed is not an out kitchen it's just a grill that we have that was no it do not if I may um I believe that was part of the zoning denial application and initially when they submitted the zoning an application that was in there so that photo is really only in there for that reason so was at that point it was pulled out because I knew that that would probably not get approval Vari just looking yeah absolutely um okay so so the driveway um as you come up from the street um I actually have a relatively small car and I canol my car so that the front of the car but not the door goes along side that bup B and if I pull my if I pull the whole car up there I can't open the door so I P I pull up the the front of the car up against that bump out um and then I can open the door and you can get one more car behind me and not approach on the sidewalk I can't even a small car drive past that pump out um and if I were to drive past that pump out even if the fence weren't there I wouldn't be able to get past the air conditioning and the outoor shower so right now while technically I guess you would consider the measurement the way we're proposing car we can get two cars on the um as far as talking about the um there's nothing you can do about changing the the L Dimensions width size all of those right not unless one of my neighbor wants to sell me one of their properties at a dollar they're already built up they are built up right now no no vacant land on there's no vacant land um and then let's talk about the existing decking okay uh how would you say that condition is uh it's ring okay and and that's an ATR deck um it's um so at the house it's a little bit above grade but as you get towards the back of the property and the obviously based on the um topographical survey it's pretty much it's accurate by the time you get to the back of the so I believe the property slops from the left rear corner to the right that's correct um oh discussing the shower yes so that shower was there has a roof sh was there it it does have I will will tell you it has hot water it has a roof I have learned that therefore it needs to be plumbed into the house we are part of this back okay you didn't add the roof though no no was so the impervious coverage that was shown on your survey that's what was there when you bought it and that's still what's there today no change that's been there for least Years thank you I don't have any other questions from when was the out shower put in um I don't know exactly I've seen pictures of the house in a listing from 2015 and in 2015 it was there um I know that that the engineer that I've hired has um satellite images from the 1970s it was not there in the 1970s so sometime 19 in 2015 surve the survey which was uh dated March 24th still shows the sh labeled as a shed it is absolutely an outdoor shower I can show you pictures from 2015 that show it as an outdoor shower sir just just from a definition stand I ask you a question the side this they call a garage car can't access it so it does not automatically it being garage well that's I think some of the variances that we CED in our letter were uh brought up by the attorney that they don't believe their variances because of that issue um it is a it is a garage built like a garage um but you can't access it the way the house is arranged on the property so it's an opportunity for the board to correct clean something up it's part of this application and we're going get down to how we do that with the applicant's approval what works best for her and what we can we can make happen so there there will be some type of discussion on that there's many options uh the worst being take the garage down and put up illegal shed Size Shed which is 10 by 10 10 by 10 uh or you know give a variance for the the building as it stands now is another option um but those are things that we're going to have to work out tonight right you the garage means a use of a garage garage as a definition even though most of us using the storage sheds driveway leading up to it that you could park a car yeah can exactly and and it's not a garage if the driveway doesn't go to the front garage so they're proposing to put take that out and put a walk in which I understand that that's what they would like to have and it makes sense but it also now makes that building no longer a garage right with the impious coverage that's being proposed still even though it's a reduction that he used the term twice perious of horest a I'm not sure what that is Joe will can explain that so let me just give you a previous one and Joe's more than um for pavers do in fact when used in a patio situation they absorb water and they work um they don't work a point where it's grass or a a more permeable uh cover but they do work it's like 50% it's hard to even give it percent I wouldn't even give it 50% but it does work so it's and it dries very quickly and when it's late in a patio's setting is level and flat um when it's done in a driveway I always question it because with cars traffic going over back and forth people want to get the credit for it and I don't believe they should get it in that situation in this one it is a little bit more reasonable and in fact it will help absorb some of the work I think this the first time we've ever had some no we've had we've had it a couple times yeah not often but uh it's becoming more and more popular um so from a practicality standpoint there is a benefit to poest papers that'll help that'll help but we don't have anything in our ordinance that recognizes that so to go along with that the the ordinance actually says that for uh at grade decking you get a five up to 5% credit with an at at grade deck right I think you're going to hear testimony tonight that a poorest paper is going to give you more than 5% whether it's a swap of the existing deck or not I I think we don't know I don't think anyone can say it's the same but the point is you're going to get more than 5% which the ordinance gives um and and and we're we're swapping an existing condition with what we feel is an improved aesthetic condition as well as other reasons that Jo will talked about in his testimony understand I gu you understand point I you are so far over on the impervious coverage understand that if we were at 60% well9 talking understand ask a clarifying question because we had um received testimony from another applicant attorney a couple of months back stating that um a garage is defined by not if it holds a car but if it holds a jet ski if it holds some sort of motorized was was that accurate or is the ordinance in town a definition of a garage is that it has to fit a car or is it that it's just some sort of vehicle that moves there's probably a vehicle that moves okay um in most cases of this car and also needs to have a driveway up to it and so does the p driveway by our ordinance not count as a driveway if I look at pictures on Zillow it does look like the papers go straight up to the garage there we're making a driveway but by our ordinance is that considered a driveway or not yes a paper paper concrete uh binus is all considered a driveway and even though they use for what they cons say for the driveway it wouldn't count as because of the mud and everything not exactly um there is maintenance involved with the forest papers it's if it's not maintained properly over time it will stop absorbing just like anything it won't work effectively anymore um but again in this case they're only proposing they're not proposing for a driveway a this is only being proposed for a patio or wall okay it's a little bit you look at a little differ ccle back um I have a question please so if than so um the application says the proposed change in use and that's regarding the garage will require variance as stated by Freeda so that would be a use variance so is this application going to be bated no just in a use variant because it's an accessory structure okay so so it's just a regular C type Vari oh so it's just it's a it's the P changes will require a variance for the setback not a variance for the use correct okay okay okay that's that's one of those English things for this for for that okay thank you so you and the mayor have to stay what's that you and the mayor have to stay she tried question to the public for questions thank you good evening Mr kba has testified several times only I'm going to ask him as long as you accept everything else your license is Eng and engineer and plan yes yes so Joe you've been hired by Miss Ley to um assist with the application correct that's correct and you were tked to prepare the vant plan correct and can you just go over the plan and and what's proposed uh certainly uh so as has been testified it is an undersized lock it's narrow 34 34 ft wide the is required I think you get 3400 ft lock um the applicant does have that existing rear deck it is slly elevated it sits about two steps above Brave at the back of the house um and the property surrounded by 6ot fences around the property so it does the deck is flat the property does gr up towards the rear um so in the current rating everything flows towards the driveway area out to the street um the applicant is proposing it's a you know we have it identified as a hot tub Dimensions it's a spa it's one of those you know pre um preab uh fiberglass Spa you you know wired up um I have one in my backyard uh the intent being he we want to put a patio in uh for the material but also it it does lower the grade a little bit by having a patio at grade as opposed to the the elevated deck the benefit of that is just in general impact to the neighbors if you're standing on the deck you're up a little bit higher and those have a little bit less uh you know um visual barrier to the neighbor's props right now if you're standing on the deck you are a little bit more prominent you kind of see over the fences in the neighbor yards a little bit more um it's not drastic it's a foot or less uh but by adding a patio rather than that we are dropping the grades there is somewhat of a a benefit there uh that you know adding a little bit more privacy not only to this property uh but privacy into looking out from this property into theer's properties um the uh I do understand uh the board Engineers interpretation was calling it a swimming point and the ordinance is um a a little wky um it's actually not in the zoning section the ordinance it's in the swimming pool section it defines a swimming swimming pool private um it says it's accessory to and construct or installed on a one or two story one or two family dwelling which this is a one or two a one family dwelling um which clue but be limited to ingr pools above ground pools including portable pools and waiting pools in excess of 50 square ft and 12 in deep which are constructed wood plastic metal fiberglass or con materials this isn't 50 ft so my interpretation that ordinance is for it to be considered a pool it's got to be 50 squ ft or bigger um so under and that's where I come that's where I determine that the six foot setback which is out of the swimming pool code uh in my opinion probably doesn't apply and the standard accessory structure setback applies at 5 ft not a drastic difference obviously uh but it does uh you know if if the board takes that interpretation our side yard setback for the uh uh Spa actually comply um at 5.62 FT U if if the board's interpretation is now we want to call this a pool it's a 6ot set back we're up by 4 and A2 in on a lot that's only 34t wide um so that that's why indicated you know obviously when on on first B there's a large quantity of variances being noticed for here um and the application seems a lot more scary than it really should be um so you know we wanted to clarify that at least our position for the board on that particular issue can I just ask a question uh what's the set the spot to theard 4 yeah why is the applicant has a a limited backyard uh because a narrow lot the house as you can see on the plan is rather long uh so the backyard um is is a little bit shallow we did talk about the compliance there we felt that this was the best location given that the deck is already 3 ft but it's it's certainly request we understand that that is not complying so you are going to look at that as a variance that is definitely a VAR because you weren't admitting to that no only on the side am I say and how about how about the 5 foot uh offset for the de of the proper I agree that that that those comply I'm sorry that that that the requirement for a patio offset is a minimum of 5 ft we are requesting and how about that the patio has to be behind the house which means you can't have your patio come across in front of the garage um in this particular case I agree we could in my opinion if we cut out a little 2x two or 2x3 section in front of the front left of the garage then it's a walkway to get back to the patio about 6 or 7even ft wide there it's kind of a uniqueness whether or not that patio does extend out in front of the garage why couldn't you continue the 4ot walkway and curve into the pa uh we could we do want we still want to access the garage we still put things in the garage and utilize it so we the intent was to keep that patio across the front of the garage so we can access the entire front of the garage door so hence the problem it's not a garage so we have to we have to resolve that issue right I understand that and the definition I agree that you know a garage typically has to have a driveway um your ordinance doesn't say that it has to have a drive no your ordinance doesn't say that I actually just look at and this is actually where I was kind of getting with my question before right if our ordinance is that a garage is something that houses a jet ski a jet ski can get through that path that's where I need clarification on what our ordinance actually so so you it comes to the point where you have to be realistic and you have to look at the municipal land laws okay as a totality because every municipality can't cover every little possible thing that comes before the board right correct all right so come on let's face it a garage is where you park a car right so you have to have the ability to get a car in there and you have to have a driveway to there so that it doesn't R up the ground and everything else just being practical absolutely and this is the standard that we have held in Bradley Beach since 2013 when I started absolutely and I just to be clear I'm not in disagreeance but what I want to make sure is that if that is the board's interpretation that is not against what the ordinance says confirmation on that so we not arguing the practicality if I may I'll put on the record the definition of a garage project which is which is what we're talking about here um a structure that is accessory to a dwelling use is used for the parking and storage of vehicles owned and operated by the residents thereof and is not a separate commercial Enterprise available to the public so with that what I would say is this does not meet the definition of a garage there's no dispute about that we're not we're not disagreeing with that but what I would say it doesn't require a a driveway all the way to it according to that def definition and what I would also say is our argument for Relief here is is we can't get a vehicle based upon current conditions of this property all the way back to the garage already so whether we call this a garage today whether we call this a storage shed today it's used as a storage shed and to add upon that from my perspective my my design perspective we were intentionally taking those areas out to try and reduce some perious cars the benefit of that because you can't get you can't get a car to so having the walkway go only a to it uh the intent to that was intentional to remove the perious coverage obviously it brings up this issue I think we kept it completely paved all the way to the back we could argue well it's still a garage we can get some kind of a vehicle back there motorcycle something um we're trying to balance two things here and it it's it doesn't act as a garage in that we're not putting a car in it so we were trying to be you know what's most practical let's get rid of uh the excess imperious coverage we won really need uh where we we can because we knew you know coming in we are replacing with a patio in the same location as a deck by your ordinance a deck is considered impervious as well but the first 5% of an accrate deck essentially doesn't count as impervious even when you include that in totality we are reducing impervious on the lot but not not by as much under the ordinance um so 80 we have calculated 87.5 n exists if you deduct the 5% that's actually 82.5 n under your ordinance uh 5% is allowed to be at gr deck that's perous um and we're reducing the 79.6 to we were trying to move it in the right direction um we recognize that you know there are certainly some unique variances here and I'm not trying to argue the practicality of it I certainly understand Mr Freed's Point as well um we thought just in totality as a planning principle it better to just take out excess impervious where we could to to justify what we're asking for which is essentially the patio ATR and a are you proposing any improvements to the garage no improvements to and what is the general condition I know you're not an architect but what's the general condition condition or from the exterior looks to be in certainly operable condition so just to go back to your other point so if you want to continue to reduce the infernity C then if you continue to walk as I mentioned and turn it in you'd be able to pull out even more imp Pur coverage from the from the proposed so I I would recommend to the board that you require them to stop the patio uh at the end of the house so it stays in a rear yard and that they're allowed to continue their walk to the patio um that'll help with the impervious U percentages of coverage um and it will make lessen a variant for the patio which is not allowed to project beyond the back of the house so there's coule variances we could see which maybe you guys were cting but they variances understood and we understand under you know technicality ordinance that isn't there uh if I could enter a photo I just have a question how many variances did you just count up oh I I I he said 17 I can believe I don't I don't eight with one used with nine do we add more to now no well no no everything in my letter something have carry more than one variance to the same issue so it gets confusing yeah yeah okay I don't know that there's 17 could be okay but but my whole point here is um and I'm not objecting to what they're asking for all I'm saying is if they get approval for it then let's give it a varant so it's clean that's where I'm coming from yeah and we would obviously prefer that the resolution is clear as to what the relief that we're getting I mean there's no question that benefits not only the burrow but benefits the client as well and the property to clearly identify what relief is is required so what's your reaction to to FR this proposal well I I certainly have to talk to my client I mean you heard Joe indicated there something that we can do I I do have to talk to my client to make sure that that's okay that that doing that you're at 79 6 uh yeah 7962 currently yes um and I would like to talk to the uh to our client as well about you know what they'd be comfortable removing I would just offer that you know we would like to keep it across the face at least the garage door I can certainly provide the board and Mr you know picture of that it's an Overhead Door put an apron yeah but there there is a small probably 12in concrete apron in front so the thought is just to extend that to the walk but I agree there a little bit of opportunity for a little bit more removal there we I talk to my client but I don't believe there's a substantial concern with that particular area so if I understand Mr fre your comment you would be talking about the patio going from ending at the garage and in a parallel line from that point or the house cuz there's a difference the garage over left the house so from the edge of the house straight back the house so that that proposed Landing would be encompassed by the papers you access pavers on the left and the right am that correct I I was assuming it could stop at the edge of the garage but I guess you going stop at the edge of the house no it would go to the edge of that Landing the edge of which is the edge of the house and to be clear the landing is needed because right now the deck is at door level to drop down the need you know two step they're they're only 6 in steps May 5 in steps we need two steps to get that you need a platform course where the air conditioner is uh right now uh this uh survey shows that it's concrete uh with that air conditioner is that concrete stain or is that going to be removed and grass put place so where where that air conditioner is Will removeing the uh the concrete there and placing a new walkway pass it to the to the side so it's just going to be that walkway that walkway correct the area between would either be lawn or stone and so that you know the condenser sits on the P right they either made of high density plastic or con yeah but it's it's says that there concrete there right now that's why they're going to take that all up and they're going to put back down as a p for the so so how the ters are identified with the uh etching or sketching that's just the fa everything else in that area is is purose And to clarify the testimony by the applicant uh I agree with the the parking testimony Prov we have one compliant Park install um they've indicated they can park two cars you know in reality that don't stick out on the sidewalk I don't know whether or not that sticks into the right away at all I assume it probably does um it is a two-bedroom home um two cars required per ordinance we're not changing the parking conditions here we're not adding any bedrooms or anything so it's all pre-existing but um want to make testimony clear and I do agree they can't fit two cars there but they're not standard so again will be needed weely have before you do that I think you got ask another question too we move forward to eliminate to eliminate the beares in the back and and the pavers and the back to make it all comp I know you got small yard but a small yard I can't do it about it there's no reason to force if they do that uh put the pavers up to the proposed Landing even with the house what would the coverage well I have we'd have to recalculate the whole thing it certainly would be you know a small amount less they would definitely going in the right direction if they can pick up more in the back of the yard that would be ideal too so if I may before we take that quick break Joe um can you can you IND what the area is of the paper area between the back of the house the hot tub the side yard uh proposed area and the what that area is it's about 26 by 18 so yes and that's inclusive of the the spa so when you deduct that question for what if we did a strip Drive where you would have just strips of concrete where the tires would and put the that would be a doesn't we actually don't need a we don't need a variance for the driveway we need to driveway reduce a lot I understand what you're saying that' be a variance it's a variance you know I I I honestly understand where you're coming from um I don't like RI and driveways uh they don't hold up they eventually become a problem you can never really maintain the grass in between because it's a small area and over time it's very difficult to do unless you professional leg they can do that so only unless it's absolutely necessary I would recommend the board consider that but I did not recommend you guys to use R if you don't have to can I just recap Insanity right now so the reason we're here is because you're taking off the wood deck to putos to replace the wood deck with and then adding the hot tub the whole nine yards and all that so what we're saying is if you get rid of if you move the hot tub up you move the papers up that takes care of at least three of your nine two variances okay well I mean no don't think of variances always as being bad I'm not I'm just trying to understand worry a lot about the number as much as what they're for okay mean remember the garage is existing there now but I'm tell I'm recommending that you have a variance for it to stay it's really not changing anything it's not making anything worse it's just cleaning up the application that's all if there are no more questions right now take a brief break thank you I think the public must de well we're going to come back and testify so the Public's going to have an opportunity yeah he's still he's still going to be coming back app we're going to take about five minutes as yeah yeah have [Music] all right L give me a bottle sometimes here J com [Music] you I almost [Music] call Mee back the word please take wait oh here I think we're ready that's that's what we hey mayor Fox here count Mone here Mr Marco here chair mayor here Mr Mayor here Mr sh here m Miss Riley I already here miss sine here miss berau here miss boo here and Miss R here thank you okay thank you for allowing us time to talk to our Cent um so I I'll have Joe uh discuss what he and Mr Bri talked about around the garage area uh but I we did speak to our client and they are uh in agreement to uh remove that rear portion of the patio and pull up the um the hot tub so that it complies with the 5 foot both comply with the 5 foot set pack um we I don't know that we decided whether the 5ft set back or or six foot set back requ but I think it's 5 foot set back is appropriate based upon the definition of pool which requires a six foot setback as opposed to the definition of accessory structure I'm going defer to understand get theone I would I would only advise that we give a variance for it anyway I don't object to the 5T because our our ordinance is not exactly clear on how this should be so I'm taking one position they're taking another um they've agreed to make the patio smaller which is a benefit to us right so um all I'm saying is I wouldn't lose sight of that variance just for thatp okay so what variance for it's there you need a variance if it was a pool so I don't have anything else to go on so that's where I'm at you guys I'm just presenting that to you yeah I agree with that it just keeps it clear I don't see why the applicant would object there's no objection to that I just for clarity that's it does protect the own for the future um it's it's been identified so we have no objection um our concern was just the quantity of variances concerning so the the hot tub's going to move up there going to be a buffer of the patio the patio is going to be the edge at 5 ft from prop correct the edge of the patio and the spa will both be at 5 the same from the same 5T so there'll be no there'll be no impervious behind the spot it'll be 5T from the rear the rear the side proper land stays the same as and one item I didn't testify about uh there was a comment in the board Engineers letter about the compliant fence I think we even know the compant fence I want to be clear a spot doesn't require a compant fence long a locking cover that's standard throughout the state we anticipate having not anticipate we're going to have a locking cover um so we don't have to change out our fence to be pool compant it's comply and at the end of the day that's a building code issue so if the building official says oh you need a pull comply fence then my client has to comply or ask for a variation or um take it to the construction Board of appeal all things we're not doing for so where does that put us on impervious coverage do you know uh I don't know the exact reduction it's going to be you the the pavers across the back we're losing about 2 feet uh which is equivalent to about 1% uh so we're going to be a little north of 1% because there a little cutouts around the bar really not it's not a lot um so again as has been testified the uh pitch of the property is from to the right front anyway so everything goes that way away from the sides and rear neighbors out to the street just what we're what we discussed was they're being pulled back on the North side just on the side corre I thought we were going to take away some P around the garage too correct okay so that still only gives us the 1% correct well it should give you 1% I think it's like 1.2 1.3 down to 77% it's uh it's about 36 sare ft in the rear plus whatever that area that'll be removed with I I mean it doesn't sound like a lot maybe but you know from where I sit on these projects that we do over and over and over a little bit helps so that's what we want can we do it that on great well that be a whole different proposal on another Point like to right now they're before with for pavers spending extra money for the forest now it's 77% I'm just that's something else that you guys may want to talk about from all I can do is what's proposed in front of you yeah I don't how we get I don't know how we get around that you know the garage is not being touched so it's over say take garage downed to a 10 by 10 um an over I understand what I'm sorry take the garage down and put a 10 by1 shed that picks up more room only s and a half% yeah it's not going to be talking minimal if anything if anything it's moving the hot tub the what's the minimum distance between a house and a hot tub 6 feet 6et so even if you move that forward towards it's within six feet and you get rid of all the CES from the back that is a whole another way of doing you get prettying it but then you have a non-usable backyard that's not grass no no no I'm saying you now right now you have a pattern you put a table out there I don't bother that AR you have you have you have a backyard you can use the grass do whatever you want I had it for years never used the backyard because it was was grass so I put a de there that's it's not it's not all the real it's not all the real with Solutions it just says all solutions I'm just saying that I don't know how the board feels but there's other ways doing this and 3400 ft loot you only do some correct and and that's our position here is we can only do so much with with what has a lot of impervious coverage already 83% in the where it says we're putting in a new walkway in the front just to clean it up match up the other papers so there's you're not going to be creating coverage there um you're removing some purpose covers there covers corre correct Tak on sides right now and that's probably the largest Improvement we're making visually is right now there's papers across the entire there's no grass prop is this already in your calculations yes that's a cat that that removal whoever owned this before wanted no and uh Joe as far far as the uh review letter goes are there any issues with the general comments in your opinion no you talk about the full compliance we address that so there's still a variance on the side yard we are still requesting a variance on the sidey for correct that meet the existing condition corre it's yes same distance as existing you're swapping out the existing Deb P the material and it drops in position I will just remind the board um the existing building coverage is not changing um but it is just I think because of the size of the lot um almost 12% over what's permitted in the zone um so in their you know total lot coverage they already are over what like the building part and they are um they are reducing the total imperious coverage dimin by 8% love see this thing around 70 I be Happ you get yeah I mean the Mr sco are you presenting or that's all I have as far as my testimony the uh I believe it can be granted under both the C1 and C2 criteria the C1 being the hardship we obviously have a narrow lot which justifies some sard relief uh and I do believe this does uh improve uh the purposes of zoning PR the General Welfare we're reducing impervious coverage and and I don't want to overlook we we're lowering the backyard which is a benefit to everybody uh the patio in my opinion does provide some benefit rather than the deck they can you know reface the deck and keep it if they wish to if the board uh uh or if they chose not to proceed with this kind of an application um so I think there is a benefit to the general welfare and desirable environment by that conversion to a Pao uh I don't believe there's any substantial detriment to the public good um we're reducing things and not impacting any of the neighbors other than placing a hot tub in the backyard which is a a typical amenity typical accessory in any residential area the only questions I have for open this up to the public um would you align amending the plans on the existing condition you shall remove the p and on the propos we really don't say anything can we make a note that we be stalling grass in those areas oh the front talking about grass or landscap grass or landscape okay I mean something that's partable absolutely no ISS right I questions address thir Avenue actually have a few questions for Mr fra um you don't get to I'll be happy TR questions are for the witness Mr SC the question is for Mr um have we established if it's a garage or a shed um Mr beon keeps saying it's a garage it's a garage is it a shed or is it a garage it's identified as a garage on the survey we've had some discussions about whether it's a garage or a shed you know I think you might identify that it's utilized more as a shed but I don't know that we established which it is so uh in order to clean up the application as Mr Frida had said wouldn't it be better CL f is a shed get a variance for the oversiz shed and the height and then we know it's a shed the resolution wouldn't that clean it up it would I know Mr fre recommended that we certainly have no objection to that actually the accessory I'm going to read the definition again because maybe I was actually uh at haste it says storage of vehicles owned and operated by the residents thereof it doesn't say what type of vehicles so there is room to bring a motorcycle in or something like that actually I think one your board member even mentioned a u a jet ski um so I mean from that perspective we're talking semantics but in all honesty we're not proposing to make it a change to the structure itself it's used as storage whether we call it a shed or whether we call it a garage um I don't think it matters other than the fact of what do we characterize the variants uh that we're requesting Le on are we requesting the variance for an oversized shed because it's greater than I think it's 100 100t um or we characterizing it as a a variant because you can't get a a vehicle to it which you could get a vehicle to it because you could get a motorcycle to it or is it based on the fact that the driveway has to go to it and the driveway has to be and that's not in your definition though that's not in your ordinance the driveway driveway wi is driveway width is we meet the driveway standard we have 20 plus feet and we have 8 we do not going no you're not the bump out your driveway standard is 20 ft deep from from the front of the property line 20 ft doesn't require it to go to a garage and there's the length of the L of the driveway be yes and the width of the driveway being minimum of 8 FT1 we meet those standards right so under where where you're standing right I I agree so can I just make a suggestion I I qual look uh because you can't get the 8 doesn't go all the way up though no it doesn't matter it's just a 20 ft length of the driveway dve doesn't have to continue up to the garage itself okay no that's where I that's where I started question yeah but but I I do agree the point is can we come to a decision on which way we want to go is the variance will be needed one way or the other the homeowner needs to be protected is what we're trying to say correct yes which is the best way to protect that just either one so my suggestion is let Mr Co finish asking this question thank you uh Mr kba and according to the deck on grade ordinance it allows 5% of the lot size to be a deck on grade with no impact to impervious coverage can you tell me how much that would reduce the impervious coverage uh so the impervious coverage calculation pre-existing was 87.9 would reduce it 82.9 we didn't account for that 5% existing coverage okay so reduce it how much you 5% 5% okay great thanks any other questions from the public see now yeah we have get is the deepens since that's your client how do you want what how do you propose to defin this from a standpoint I I would say either provides equal protection pick one um but but I will say that honestly because of the uniqueness of not having a driveway having a driveway and your ordinance not being clear I think shed probably provides more protection for everybody the shed the act for terminal accessor or accessories structure when was the garage built the structure bu yeah I don't know the date the garage was there in 1979 I say that let's talk about a car back then it was a garage and the story okay but isn't no but I mean we're having like a full conversation it's a garage it was built as a garage it has a garage door it appears to be a garage you know um well the shower didn't show up until what 2015 but the bump somewhere between so and I didn't testify that that I probably should I did review all the arrows to try and find out where the shower came in unfortunately the resolution in that I couldn't tell where the shower was I can tell in 1979 it wasn't there surprisingly and I've testified about this here before 1979 aren the clearest areas we have as you get later they get worse I don't know how technology got better but you can't see anything you get one of those drones now oh yeah I'm sure there's plenty of pictures of um 2015 there's photos of it existing so it it came somewhere in that space this big hpit what do you want to say I I I would just for clarification propose it to be a an oversized shed um because that's what it's used for at this point but it has but it has a a garage style door which doesn't really matter do matter you're calling this you want to call this Define it as an accessory structure accessory structure over want variance for that and a variance for that that just add more nonconform to this or a nonconforming no they both I mean it's it's either a a non-conforming garage I guess which it's probably not yeah it's either non-conforming for a garage without a driveway or it's not conforming for an accessory structure oversiz either way have one variance yeah but the reality is it's not used for vehicles accessory structure so uh I I am finished I reserve obviously right to final comment but yes open this application up to the public for public questions the applicant uh com com sorry comment comment board Thomas 612 tell the truth the whole truth truth yes I do um it's a very difficult application with the small lot uh clearly we have no idea when the building permits were taken for the deck or the shed or the shower or whatever um the applicant is trying to work through it um I I do believe that the deck on grade would reduce the impervious coverage the additional 5% I feel that that's a better stand um also I I would prefer if you're going to call it an accessory structure it should specifically be a shed the accessory structure in a resolution can be misconstrued to be something else so storage shed is what it is accessory storage shed um and I believe that the VAR should be granted it would be a hardship to remove that structure um and uh I believe with that change it should be thank you any other comments see Clos so uh the applicant requesting the relief as as we had indicated I'm going to go over a few things and um if Mr Mr kri wishes to chime in but we are requesting a varant for a side yard um distance to the patio as indicated plan um9 ft we are requesting a variance for the um setbacks stri that we decided it's going to be accessory structured for an oversized shed and the rear and side setbacks based upon the existing conditions um we are asking for a variance for the distance between the hot tub and the garage uh 10 ft is required 562 ft is proposed we will comply with the rear yard setback to the patio of 5T as well as the rear we're asking for a variance for the rear yard set back to a to the hot tub of 5 feet where six feet would be required according to what Mr rakan uh testimony is um we are asking for a variance for the Imp impervious coverage we have not done the calculations but we can represent that with the reduction to the rear as well as the area that uh was discussed by Mr kashuba and Mr Freda that will reduce it at least 1% and probably more than 1% when the calculations are actually done and uh Joe just refresh my memory what was The Proposal 79 uh 79. 6262 so so it'll go down 78 and change or give or take um but it will be less than the 7960 initially proposed uh we do not believe there's a variance necessary for theill because the type of Grill uh that is proposed um there's a variance for a onear uh driveway where two would be uh required it's an existing condition uh we will note on the plan that the front proposed front walkway that areas on either side will be U perious coverage so will no longer be impervious coverage that area um I think that covers and to the extent necessary building coverage building side yard setback um existing conditions the the lot size lot width um variance on those things identified in Mr and also install the drain for the oh yes yes that's not a variant condition that now the two car the two car garage one car garage it's pretty did you say the two-car garage two sorry two car driveway parking you could get two cars in there you you can easily fit two cars back to back there so is there a variance apart from that yes because they're not they don't meet the legal size of our parking spot you need 20 ft I believe it's either 18 or 20 but it's still either one it doesn't meet just it just misses um and you know if it's your own cars you can pull tighter together than you could maybe someplace else right the drive driveway so it's not it's a variance but it's not really hindrance that's like eight no seven we started the night off with eight so the girl went away we didn't know if the grill was going to have have the it's it connection right to that spot and St have you have you defined clearly what is being reduced as far as on the right hand side of the property of the garage we know exactly what's being reduced as far as yeah they're going to they're going to Red they're going to reduce the size of the patio by bringing it back to behind the house the house Down The House straight back and then they're going to continue the walkway up to where the new patio will begin so there's going to be slight strip in there they may even wish to depending on you know what the conditions look like at the time of construction remember that's a that's an access into the house there right it's a little bit different elevation from the Finish floor of the house to the anything El existing and as testified to it'll be a PA Asos to just yeah this por thing as to I don't know if I buyck is want you provide that testimony so they understand so a porest patio system consists of not only the pavers porest system the papers with the stone storage below it usually have a stone storage a choker cor of stone uh and then the papers installed on top of that and they're they're installed with a gap between them um the newer papers actually have little kind of Nubs on the side of them so the gaps are all equal um and they're sand filled in between as opposed to a impervious material so the run off when it hits the patio uh goes through the gaps the sand and the gaps and winds up in the stone storage area below uh the paper there's actually uh uh you know standards for those types of systems you use you don't use polymer sand no so the polymer stand sand tends to be more in purpose so it's it's actually more mason sand okay has has a sand sand or or I've seen stone dust so actually the stone the stone itself the paper is not the paper it's not is not but it allows it to perk into the stone which is it is a storage vessel first and allows that to perk into the ground D recognizes it in fact they're almost forcing it on it many instances I think you started off tonight we learn something new every night question it was a difficult application because again 10B and putting into a 5B bag and it's the St it's a story of Bradley Beach and it's and it's lot sizes Legacy lot sizes and I I'm sure every lot on that street is o o property all about the same size and there's not much room I understand 20245 we want to have better amenities for all stay home I'm not happy with the I'll be right FR I'm not happy with the imperious just I appreciate you trying to do this get this U Down I don't think you got down enough I really don't I'm I'm going back and forth I'm really struggling in my head which way to go is whether make a motion for cool or not because it's there's other ways of getting around this I I'm I'm going to make a motion to approve it and we'll let it fall or may with other they say other members of Bo they agree with me or not and take it from there with the variances that were um proposed and the additional existing variances in in the application so a but I'm doing this reluctantly that's my opinion uh that's well that's been going to be written up in the in the proposal is accessory structure the existing garage will be redefined at answer a bearance for that so that's was one of that was the first varant we SP about as a shed as an over yeah over yeah I don't want it to be an oversized garage for obvious Reas or accessory structure because then you can say it's a cottage yeah I'm trying a shed accessory storage structure trying to get away from any side steps should just say shed okay that if that limits it and we're covered and we don't get any sh we don't get any if you want to further say no utilities other than electric can't have water can't have gas Jerry Jerry takes good notes I thought restrict it once it's gone it's G for it's an oversized shed SL accessory structure okay accessory structure actually not access accessory structure shed is specifically defined in there it is so which is good so we're covered anyway we call shed you want to call it shed just be clear but it is ex we have a motion uh Mr merer uh yes Miss SAR uh yes I approve uh Miss rile no Mr Marco uh yes and I I do want to make the comment that a lot of the we've been talking about the number of variances and I do just want to put on the record that a lot of these variances are pre-existing conditions and so I just want that not yes um coun honey um you know I'm also disappointed about the um the lck covers theous coverage but the the house itself you know they're not changing the house the house just takes up a lot of space and um on these small back lcks set backs are are more important so I'm glad we we move that hot tub and and the porch excuse me the patio back so I'm going to say I'm going to say yes may fo I'll say yes re concessions that were made small yes uh Mr sh like chair May said 3400 foot so much you get they did work with us a little bit here try to get as much in reduction as possible say yes and chair mayor um I'll say yes also thank you that's a lot do we need to take any breaks on right now run run not [Music] [Music] [Music] see them and fly yeah [Music] she [Music] [Music] I've always been absent mind he [Music] not that's the so he has the original this is the one with inad of me flipping through all this [Music] stuff I would like to refer to one of the two this front shot showing this here how we right okay great that's all up there this new the plan so you have the revised I know that you have all the reved plans that I never got from your office I think Joe must have you know I looked I was in the hearing this morning I looked when I got back [Music] only yeah I [Music] CL gar top we'll [Music] right call the order me call meeting back work please do thank you yes don't have materials it's just some small [Music] [Music] you're killing me I know huh [Music] good remove some good thank you thank you [Music] [Music] all right I'm gonna take a Qui [Music] roll mayor Fox Council Mahoney here Mr Marco chair mayor here Mr Mayor here Mr sh here Miss Riley here miss here missell here miss Bo here miss okay the next application under consideration this evening is L 2413 it's both variances for the demolition of three single family dwellings and the construction of one two and a half story dwelling Jonathan kabus and Sandra Chang lot 14 Lot 18 103 through 105 nework Avenue the applic proposing demolish the three existing single family dwellings and all amenities and then construct a 2 and 1 half story dwelling with an attached garage covered porch rear patio and a driveway The Proposal requires varant Rel Le for side yard set back to the dwelling rear yard set back to the dwelling building coverage and cious coverage balcony size and location air conditioning location and entrance platform the by Jeff Jeffrey beakman the beakman law firm I represent Mr Caris and M Chang on this application um this evening you'll you'll hear from Sandra Chang who is uh one of the owners of the property uh and has a family history to this property as well that she'll testify about um Mr kashuba is our planner engineer for this application and Mike Malo Michael Millo is the architect of record uh for this application um and you'll hear testimony from the three of them um but I'm going to start with M Chang so yes raise your right hand including our professionals do you s to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing put the truth tonight proceeding do okay I've had the opportunity to review your notice and everything thank you so much so just a brief overview of this property uh so this property has three existing single family dwellings on one 50 by 100 foot line and what the applicant is proposing to do is to substantially alter that use to make it a single family dwelling um the property is in the RB Zone uh single family and two family dwellings are permitted in the RB Zone um and um proov benefits for this application is you're reducing a significantly nonperforming lot that has a total of about eight bedrooms seven or eight bedrooms to four bedrooms uh you'll have a conforming driveway that allow for uh four to five off street parking for vehicles um while there are no off street parking uh to that um the the plans um have been revised and I and we passed out three exhibits so we're going to have to mark those um but with those exhibits we're reducing some of the variances and and that'll be discussed um this evening um the uh Architects going to provide testimony as requested by Mr Freda about the half story definition um the relocation of the structure for the single family home will induce reduce some of the massing of of the existing uh and provide for uh larger areas of open area on the on the site uh and over we believe that what is proposed is a going to be a substantial benefit to Bradley um because of the change of what's there today and what's being proposed bed four bed so miss Chang you've been sworn how are you um so if you could just provide the board with an overview of your family history with this specific property okay so um myle property in 1957 they got the yeah yeah okay so um my aunt had asked for rendering of that so when I actually closed on the house my uncle who is their surviving son of them gifted me the painting which would be prominently in the house so from 1957 to 1999 they own a property and I spent many Saturday nights having desserts and playing with my cousins and vising with the ERS talk about different things so it means something to me so when you look at it they're not very nice but I have very fond memories so when we made the decision to during Co that we wanted to retire to BR the beach when the homes came for sale it meant something to us and I said to jie like we have to bid on these and he kind of looked at me like okay and I said no but this really means a lot to me to be here because with my property and we lost them out of the family and I wanted them back in the family so it's very significant to us and I've spent my whole life in Bradley Beach so may will be my 58th summer in Bradley Beach my mother lost her father in 1953 and my grandmother brought her children to Bradley Beach for the first time for healing so it became their happy place and so therefore it became my happy so we've just I've grown up there I've known some of the people so long that I don't remember not ever knowing them and their family to me so when I walk to the beach which is three and a half blocks from my current house cuz I grew up in on 400 block and then in 2001 my husband and I bought a bungalow one house away from where I grew up so it takes me 45 a good 45 minutes to walk to the beach three and a half blocks away because of all the people we talk to and all the dogs that I give treats to so it's very significant to us um and as far as how old do you think you were when you first came to this project specifically oh it's been in the fan for a long time so I prob I remember being about five sitting on the white Bier chairs like um hanging out with the family and you recall at that time both of those front buildings were the two single the back and the what happened was my aunt and they let otheres there so I actually played in all the houses so during Co when they were for sale you couldn't go with them because they had renters and people couldn't walk through the houses so I actually knew I didn't that's all the test have if I could um so you're proposing a four bedroom home can you just tell us how many bathrooms are in the three bedrooms are in the three houses now there's a set okay no that's help thank you and I guess just to go along with that um we did submit the property cards it indicated the two front structures the structures were all seem to be built between 1914 and 1916 on the slot um and they indicate in that in those property cars that the two front homes have three bedrooms each and uh the rear is a one bedom kind of more like a studio seems that rear bu that rear building is fully on this oh yeah I saw some overlapping I think we submitted a survey all right that's fine but yeah yeah if you look up the tax records there are three separate props one oh and you did pay the taxes yes the lady sent back to me because she said I made a mistake I sent almost 14,000 instead of 1300 no no no I did on purpose we appreciate that's a I guess um I just ask one overarching question all of them it's just kind of elant you have a 50 by 100 LW why do we need to many variances do we not build a performing property on this structure on this La I mean the short answer is yes the long answer is if my clients are going to invest in this property they want to build something that they feel that they can live with in for a long time or their alternative is to maintain it as it is um say that well I I'm not I'm not saying that I'm not saying that in a threat anyway I'm not trying to threaten but that's my client's that's my client's um program you understand my question lot you can build a 100% compliant four bedroom house on there and be fine no back no back I mayor I I understand and we're going to provide Our Testimony provide our proofs and the board's going to have to make a decision the flying or is because ordinance changed we can't the garage apartment we have a bedroom over garage so here's the thing your ordinance in RB Zone last two two family we we they could put a two family they don't want to do that that's but we have we've been down this road before with bedrooms over great no all right just want to get that on the I'm sure everybody in this room has the same every member has the same question sure appreciate the question very good open this up to the Public Public questions for the applicant see come do you want you want to stand over there you that's the rest yeah we don't have the revised exhibit so we do have to mark um the revised architectural plans the small plans that just hand it out uh also on the board that they also have a c so hand it out earlier everyone has five sheets and the rendering you want them separate we we'll mark them separate yeah so which uh we're going to do A1 what do you want A1 we we'll make A1 the revised architectural plans and Mike just if you can provide the uh the dates for that uh the latest plan looks like December 18 should be a revision date actually yesterday yeah December December 18th okay and the rendering was also prepared December 18th December 18th A2 A2 would be the uh revised color rendering well it's actually not revised it the second color rendering and I believe those are the only revised plans that you prepar correct three plans and the elevation okay thank you yeah I'm sorry and uh two elevation Chiefs RIS two dimensional elevations which are part of this set so I'm sorry five it's a 1 two 3 five and six so uh Michael um you are a an architect licens in the state of New Jersey licens since 1990 yes and have you testified before this board before I have not testified before this board little room we have here but many communities in the area that I have and you've been accepted as an expert in the field of architecture I have been yes okay and how long uh would you say that you've testified before boards in your career how long the last 26 years i' off next miss one question is your license current is your license current yes so Mike um you were tasked with preparing architectural plans for this application is that correct I was and and if you can explain to the board as you heard Mr mayor's uh the chair mayor's question explain to the board the pro the program you were tasked to uh provide for the plan well um understood there are a lot of variances here we're just dealing with uh the client's requests tried to handle this as best I can given what they wanted to do with the testimony between Mr kba and I you'll hear that we at least you know there what we just didn't build something that was you know over on percent 10% over just to do it you know we just made every attempt to conform with at least not not exacerbating existing nonconformities actually making many than what they are now so in working with the client request and what they wanted we had to kind of guide them to on the best way to do that and that's why we're here yes can a house be done of course it can 5,000 lot 35% this is where why we we are here now and again we provide testimony and uh that's to and uh to start off with if you can just provide uh the board with an overview of the updates that you've made since we received uh Mr bur's review letter yes uh three three areas uh one will start at the top and that uh image shows the previous one had an exterior deck on the east side uh that was to pick up views to the east uh that does face a rear of property which orientation is east to west so that would face the rear yard but in any case we decided okay let's just make a part of the third floor we still comply with the third story uh half story I'm sorry half story calculations we're under the 50% we're 44 44.9% is going to testify that later but we do even with adding that area into the into the uh half story so that that's no longer a variance because it's no longer a de OB and and again we're talking really about a balcony correct according to their the definition of the ordinance balcony yeah there's the old rendering with the balcony and yes it was over we could have reduced that to 80 square feet but client said okay that's going to be a variance and CA you know I guess to blessing loc reting today they're okay with providing just the warmer to the that was facing front faces North and that that D what was the balcony face towards the beach so when you did the initial calculations for the half story you included the balcony already the balcony was included so whether it's I think the dorm was just pulled back a bit just for Aesthetics just because of the heaviness there but that's an architectural thing so yes we're still under at the 44 point okay and you said there were three what were the other two changes well one was um there was the the uh Landing in the back as part of the uh the rear of the dwelling uh so it's all attached so it's all the principal dwelling it's not a separate detached garage it's part the whole building is the principal dwelling so that deck in the back is now within the house so we still have the preferred second means of agress downstairs but it's in the back and close and then the Third change uh Third change was that's what he just stairs yeah Landing the landing and steps that remove the variant yes which variance was that one the the exterior the exterior landing and the exterior stairs were removed so so the ordinance does not allow landing on a second story so in the back corner right then in your letter j yeah so that is 3G oh yeah and then the first one that you removed was in Jerry's letter was C3 right the balcony the balcony C3 and um the house was moved and that shown on Mr pba's plan not on my plan but it was moved from the rear of the dwelling to the east side of the that portion of thewell and so that's three so those are two variances the has two Varan so there are two separate variances there is a VAR for the rear yard setback which is what is being removed we still proposing the variant for the side yard set and Mr M will describe those units how they compare to a typical condenser okay with that let's start at the front of the house and if you could take uh the board around in a clockwise fashion okay so there's another elevation that be the second elevation can we just go back clear clear [Music] fold it into that corre so how many if you look at mr's letter I know mentioned three how many of those variances two so what's being removed is the fact that there's no deck facing on a side and there is no I should say balcon no von that's facing to the side as opposed to the front and um you don't have a is C3 yeah I believe they're both in the same NC both of those C both in C3 we 11 okay thanks so Mr M uh what what do we have so I'll just refer to this which was part of the original submittal so if you look at the house and um if you're aware of what's going on in the street it's uh the density uh the previous elevation it's it's this one that shows actually the the driveway for the west side of the house in relation to the existing house none of the homes form on on on the Block right and just the density want it to change that want it to change the field so yes we are seeking a variance for the part of the dwelling that's 2.6 2.88 ft off that side we actually two exists for that residence the first and I'm just going to do an estimate I know exactly 43 ft Plus 8 ft of the house are over 12T from the property line so just the just the uh just the attempt for more air and light in consideration for this neighbor air and light you push it over that way so you may say okay what's happening with this neighbor here well it's a vacant lot right now and we are complying with the setback on this side and that lot that would be their rear rear set pack which I believe is 25t to So when you say you're compliant with the setback a 5 foot setback on that side 5 foot on the east side not complying just the rear portion of the dwelling the last 20 ft the first 43 plus 8T is 12 ft off the property line and if you go around the house the same thing in the rear well yes we are there is a 5 5.08 rear setback request but that's only for 20 ft of the house where on the existing property and I'm just going to estimate it's about of the 50 ft about 35 ft is closer to the lot line on one of those Cottages than this is so here again I understand we we're we're we we're asking for a relief only 42% of the lot is encroaching then it steps back again can refer to M Mr kba's plan where it steps back in the rear so again it's an attempt yes the house does creep that way in the rear and off to the side but air and Light there was a conscious effort to provide um as much as possible and then um heading around to the east side of the property the we comply that's our five we're at 5T we're 5 point uh exist at 5T or 5.29 uh for that set back and if you can explain on that side uh there is a variance request on that side for the condenser units correct yes there there commonly called Mini Splits VF system where they hang on the wall will project maybe 16 to 18 in off the wall and they're 3 to 5 ft above the wall so they don't sit on the ground there are different variations of that they come in different sizes where that's generally about right and with those um they're facing uh what as far as the neighbor's concerned well that would be the rear yard of this property if the when it's ever developed it's 25 ft to the to the house so that would be the rear property that those condensing units are facing and at the same point it's also uh proposed to be tuck as far into the corner of that property as well is that accurate the um again the question I'm sorry where they're located on the side of our property is tucked at the farthest corner of that property it would be the the the northwest corner of the second lot in the South lot adjacent to us and in your experience how do these Minit units compare to a typical condenser unit high efficiency very quiet um and then I if you would move to the rear of the before we do question um can we have the engineers plan updated and changed to show the location of those three units that they're not on the ground on the sled to the house what that 16 in would look like other words get rid get rid of these three blocks because you say they're not going to be there right that's testimony they were going to be gone no no they're just going to be attached to the house they're attached they're not ground but you said they're going to be 16 in off the house no no the units themselves are 16 in from the house the outside of the unit is plus or minus 16 in yeah I'm asking you to draw those scale on on the plan okay we can do that yes you're saying they're larger on the oh I'm sorry them scale on a plant and make them detach to the building so that we can make it clear that there are no pad sites there yes yes I'm sure mrba will'll be able to do that thank you so in continuing with the house the style of the house just wanted to we didn't want to do anything over the top again as um Sandy testified spoke to just wants this this old Shore feel and I think we're doing this here simple Gable some detailing front porch uh front porch the deck on top Cedar Shakes detailing trim typical what You' see in the newer newer want to look older homes in R and then as far as the rear of the proper propos as a re the the um again the question again specifically um the rear where the garage the garage area is the okay let's go we'll go to plans then so um so so for clarity the plan that you showing is the plan that's been marked as A1 and there is a difference in this plan compared to the plans that are available are plans at the handouts today we just have these and this this plan shows the enclosure of the stair of the garage mck did you receive an electronic version of this email is it's not available right I just I just want to make sure so we'll sign we'll do a little something here what that yeah so if you describe the differences in that area Okay from what was submitted so what I explained earlier now this the the stair now goes into the garage the stair is enclosed up to the dwelling the BET one of the the rear portion of the dwelling above and again everything's connected so it's a single family considered a single family dwelling no accessory structure and as far as when you made that change did that change any uh did that make any change to the envelope the well actually we pushed there was an existing stair there so the the net or the the result was actually less than impervious it inched up the the the coverage a bit but no more than what exists now in the building coverage um and then as far as that there's a walkway between what looks like the garage and the proposed structure that's a second story walkway yeah this is all connected the whole second floor let me flip to the second page hold so this is the uh second floor uh bedrooms Rec area onto the deck uh back to the bedroom in the back and the stair down and where are the bedrooms located uh bedrooms bedroom bedroom east side again take advantage of the views and a bedroom in the back uh back over the rear portion of at the rear portion of the house and there's a fourth bedroom as well fourth bedroom yes that's the master suite which occupies the third floor let's let's hold off on that yet um let's step on this plan here um and you you note on your plan guest site yes a guest room guest site um and do you have you have areal showing that walkway area or I should say um your uh I have the elevation El yes I'm sorry there's a lot of confusion about what the walkway yeah that's why I want to get to the elevation I think they shows it better we'll just uh get right to that on here and that was shown on our elevations the original submitt in our elevations this hasn't changed at all this is all connected all the second floor here and calling it a walkway it's a hallway and just have access to the yard underneath that it's open underneath so if you can describe because it's obviously it's not a rendering on that side can you describe where the house ends on the first floor and where that open there's an open area on the first level correct right so this if you take um simply here's the back porce of the house here's that cut right through it there's the hallway extending over this walkway here back and here's the rest of the home here so the second floor second floor here's the lower portion of the garage second floor and first floor here so it's not just like a Breezeway it's an actual hallway that connects it's a living space it's a living on the second floor on the second floor but what happens on the first floor I think that's what the question is right it's it's open where you can access the yard from the outside basically not closed at all it's not close can you just tell the board how big that open is sure how high yes how wide okay let me test yep let me go back to the plan so we can use this plan here you're basically putting a walking bridge to your garage that's now an apartment I'm sorry you're basically putting a walking path from your home to your new garage apartment right however you want to see that if you look at the second floor it's a hallway to a bedroom there's a garage underneath the second floor is all connected all right so it's a walkway to a garage apartment on a 5,000 foot lot no I said that it's not no it's not a garage apartment you just said it no you you said garage yes what's the what what movie was that with the thing no I'm sorry so you stayed at a garage so let me stay on track of where where we are here it's not an apartment it's a guest Suite it's a guest suite and it's labeled guest site on my plant so if I agreed with you mean agreed with the garage apartment part of that I apologize so um gu we attach in the back could have called it bedroom for guest room it's called a guest Suite because we have a bathroom in there look connected to that so the distance here I can't get my my scale but just looking at it I'd say it's 10 ft you 10 ft to allow access to the yard on that side was there any consideration um to make the walkway look appear more open windows little light uh more glass or any of that was there any discussion about that well it's a hallway it's a hallway down to a bedroom uh there's no need to open it I don't know if that makes a difference in the design um this this could have been enclosed as well in the lower area it's all part of coverage anyway we could have enclosed that but access to the yard on that side up to the driveway that's our access point primary access point to the yard so if you can just go back to the second floor uh floor plan sure so this yeah so there there are windows on either side you know I didn't realize I was looking at the first floor sorry there are windows on either side hallway well yeah here's a open rec room bedrooms and a hallway down to a bedroom everything else you know here little some built-in stairway down second means regress down and out this way and uh as far as the half story half story okay we go to the half story plan and while you're talking about the half story if you could just provide the actual calculations while you're testifying please okay great uh the the calculations the area of the second floor below is 2,26 uh Square ft the area of the half story is 910 Square ft which comes to 44.9% where 50% is allow and that includes all the area is sh okay and and how was that calculated as far as at a height of the ceiling or how did you calculate that yeah actually there are very few areas of 7 ft and less but we do have to concern ourselves with the another item uh fire rated calculations which are already accounted for and will be accounted for in the construction door and that's just the difference on under the building code as opposed to build code and how we how we build and construct the home yes and on that upper story what are uh the proposed spaces okay so you have the master bedroom which well it's now that Dormer so this was actually a smaller space now we just Ed that space instead of the balcony the space within the room small office space bath and closet and that's all open between the master bedroom office before you get to the bathroom yeah that their plan was to keep it as open light and Airy as possible so the old covered deck is part of the master bedroom now uh yes reduced slightly again because of the how I saw it the weight of the Dormer sitting out pulled it back just a little little bit for a second and still complies as I said that's all calculated in the which was in the first in the first place anyway in any case it's all in there now and then I I note that you don't show any type of a basement plant no Bas just a crawl space putting 30 in down which would take equates maybe a 3ot crawl plus or minus they go a little deeper but that's it uh we can run some duck work under there just a little room to get down in there service things that's it no Bas and where are other than the mini splits that you talked about where the mechanic is going to be located well we have we have voids here these slope spaces in the roof line and areas over in the Attic those would be the interior units again with with the Min splits we deal with very small units it don't need a lot of room those are the questions I have for Mr M is there an elevator yes there is maybe it's me but I don't see it lining up the first floor right well the in the second floor I it's turn 90° and it's to the left of the hallway on the third floor it's is it just doesn't seem yeah there this just a related to this space this mud room is that and that space is about the same next adj into the stair and if you follow through and then you have this space which is about the same size so usually plus or minus 5 by 72 is in space behind it next to the stair and that'll lock it in visually for you on the free story may just having a hard time visualizing this one looking at one plan it's showing rectangular what South the first floor is going east west and second floor nor South just the way it's orientated with the uh elevator column it just doesn't look like uh everything is uh we're good because when we do the drawings we have everything overlay I believe just it just just doesn't J all but no it's it could be a printing error it it align it it aligns and I'll have other people to answer to if it doesn't align if this is approved other than here but again if you stair yeah just align it with the steps here's the edge of the steps and take this 5x Seven box so there is the edge of the steps in the 5x Seven box what is this that's me what's this show I I can't see what you're pointing at that a shower right here oh yeah I'm look at that I'm looking at that interpret that as an elevator oh The Thing by the pantry then that's by the bathroom that's oh now I see the elevator yeah me too okay take it it's not a printing error that's user error elevator in the center of the home no I see architecture 101 so I don't I don't have any other questions for Mr M I will say uh which addresses the the final comment and the general comments that yes it will comply we'll be construction drawing prepared we'll comply to current codes the existing Cottages are 100 80 to 100 years old uh so current wind wind structural upgrades electrical H as we talked about all complying drawings will be submitted building from was there any discussion about the garage location the hallway how long is that hallway that is how many that they here uh just that opening again uh 10 to 12 fet there's no discussion about moving it forward and to eliminate rear outet back issues like okay so um that's actually a very good comment there it could be shortened up I think the end what was taken into consideration access points between the shower and the garage but that can be skinned up or shortened a bit because I think board's going to struggle with not struggle look I it's not I know my interpretation a garage par but it's not it's a bedroom over garage and it's a clever way of getting a another bedroom outside is attached to the house but you literally can drop a wall in that walkway and now that and now it's a garage no no no no no not that I'm talking about the actual walkway from the driveway to the backyard dro the wall passageway that was sealed up the doorway each side house one house yeah I'm just trying no I understand your comment but in designing this I I'm being honest I just never it's a house with just an access underneath you haven't testified Beach struggle with garage apartments all time no understood and and I'm aware of that and you it's changed it's a 5,000 ft LW well and I would say to to go along those lines is is I think the intent here is to not have a garage Department because I see because it's attached number one and number two if there's a concern of the board saying that oh that could be converted to to an apartment it really can't because there's no amenities in there number one and and and number two number three the other thing I would say is um your ordinance in this Zone does allow a two family but it's not a two family we we want to keep it my client wants to keep it a single family yeah three three unique homes on one propery versus one correct but you also have that staircase that implies that somebody could access that card independently of the house yeah you know if you can just explain why a staircase as opposed to erress Windows in that location and it's not uncommon that in a house that has some depth and I'm not just saying it because we're here have two means of us whenever we could to try to try to do that and in this case we're able to do so um U that's again that's the way that was the discussion we had and that that was our approach but anything you can take the drawings and look at it any way and any comments you want did you have an air conditioning when we were talking about things that we changed you can't come back for what no she was the applicant was talking from your audience she can't not you oh confused there was an air conditioning unit behind the garage garage unit um and you moved that right on the corre on okay correct that so so is that now supplied air by the Min splits so one of two things are going to happen there okay either it's going to be in in the rear location but in a compliant location so it meets the 5 foot set back okay or these mini split units actually um are able actually Mike why don't you testy had the Minit unit work rather than be testify all right so at this house in the end if it's a true VR Min split system may only need two units outside we're just still continuing to discuss that where it goes to the distribution boxes and the distribution boxes handle the little units the mini air handlers within the house so just for clarity purposes we took the one and moved it and I'll have to continue with the discussions with the owner but it could be where there's only two wherever on the property servicing the whole house up to 10 up okay so if you needed a third it would most likely here and that and me knowing nothing about HVAC could Supply the AC set line runs to the unit in the Attic over that space and then it's handled but for now uh but then two that's making the decision now you know if the units change and we have to go if they don't go that specific unit we know we have the unit right outside if they decide to change up the type of unit and this covers Us with any pretty much on the narrower units any setup uh that they would go with as you show okay but as it stands right now you need a variance for that side yard where the midi splits are sitting just the three on the side that that requires a VAR ch um I I understand having a guest Suite that has its own exit and entrance it's nice to have guests and be able to be like hey get out of my house and you know go go away and Do Your Own Thing here's a key enter and exit I I because you have um your over impervious coverage and building cover um again did you did you think about that L you know getting rid of that bridge well getting then it's not it's again we started with the principal structure right as one structure then access to the yard underneath I think it may be a good idea explain the access to the yard to me I gu cuz I can't see we don't have a a drawing like this where I can see how access to the Yard Works CU we don't really have a drawing of access to the yard no understood and I have I do have it my 2D elevations which I know aren't as clear so I'm walking up the driveway now right there's the garage right in front of me those chairs of the garage and I'm making a left into the yard right now there's my ball and oh you so you go to the garage and you go under that into the yard there's a hallway above and here's my back under the bridge here's my back door to go into the garage there's some cook yeah yeah okay so that's what you do now I understand so there's a driveway you go under there yeah and it's right and it's not the first time I did it and sometimes you do a little something with the AR almost like an entrance to your yard there right all right now I I okay so given the side yard setback with the garage I think if we were to remove the staircase from the garage and just push that whole thing up against the house you would eliminate a lot of the space and setback calculations that we're looking at here right so if it were to just become a house with a attached garage and there happen to be a bedroom built above the garage we moove the bridge this would stream a lot of we're talking doesn't take away a dwelling on a small property it doesn't but this then we're looking at separate a separate structure we're took looking at potentially a two family if there's a living area above so the intention is just a single family with a garage um so if we reduce the bridge we can help get the bridge the hallway upstairs the cover over whatever I've called it in the last 15 minutes if we reduce that we can get off the backyard a bit maybe the idea to slide it over a little but then we're starting to encroach I believe on Joe's in my plan here they propos a koi pond here and some seating around that so we wanted a bit of room in the yard because here's so are you you're over on building coverage can you talk about that yes we're much over so what as like the first thing I said is what we tried to do was not exacerbate any of these nonconform but you're starting from a clean slate we started from a clean slate exactly I know that and again that's why we're here and every every all every we've made better or met or better the existing nonconform okay but if you're not down they're not existing you're starting from so pre previously existing which doesn't count anymore KN down Queen slate you have to go with new you're looking at it that way what I'll relate it to now compare it to this is a relative point where our front yard setback where of what it was that's no longer a front yard the for setback both s side setbacks impervious and building coverage parking spaces number of dwellings on the property is better than whatever it was before it not was or isn't yeah but I think the testimony was also the structures that are there over 110 years old yeah I don't I don't think you can compare over 100y old structure with a conforming blot that's clean slate I mean I think we strive to you know make it easier for residents but this is a conforming law and um we appreciate the the um trying to improve the law make a a house that you can retire in but it's it's 10% over building I just had a question too because I want to better understand the reasoning why would what was the reasoning for putting the guest Suite on the St story of the garage as opposed to making not as large as a recreation room and putting a guess Suite in that spot and and making a smaller Recreation room well uh we're here with this design if you get rejected there's options right as you said 35% there's a lot of options if we started from scratch done a lot of the SS we can continue on how to design it what to do and move some of these rooms condense it but that's will that bridge or whatever we'll get to that we talk about that we that's the way you choose to go as far as not allowing the application question speak the this again we have a clean slate and I opened it up about why can't make clean property I would also con see that I think the town is better off with the change obviously get living on this property and I think I think the bo would be amenal to some concessions but it has to be within reason a one is again struggling with block coverage I understand the bridge I won't call it Bridge the hallway it's it's it makes it more convenient to come out of the driveway and walk to the backyard it's it's a clever idea and allows you to do something kind of neat there um but the distance from the house it eliminate some some variances the reality is that that square footage could be attached to the house somehow and reduce reduce coverage or reduce some of the variances of setbacks which one you talking about well this the the the garage itself that could be it could be that could be shifted around on the property and come up I know it may not be the answer you were looking for but I think the board's going to be looking for some relief with that um with even the concept of a of a hallway I hate the term Bridge that's what's that's not what it is it's like as said it's club right here to attach it to the house so it's attached property and yes this could be a to family it's and I know not a client's desire but the board has to keep in mind this could be sometime down the road sold that's on deal right now but there I think a bo be again amable to concessions but within I mean I I would say this I mean obviously we have other testimony that went on the record but I would say this and Mr M hit this point is 85% of this property as proposed conforms with your ordinance 85 so so what the only area that doesn't conform with the ordinance is that garage area which is tucked as far away into the corner to allow for that open air the light and those things that you know it's going to be important to the neighbor to the West he's going to have 12T of open openness to his views to the ocean we're we're proposing 12T to that side Lot line where allow T he's not looking through the garage to get his views to the ocean because he's got other houses got he's got to look through so so we think the program that our client test the architect with and considering what's there today is a there's justification for the C2 variants that that Joe will come up and and talk about Mr P will come up and talk about Mr beatman while you're while the architect testified that you know 85% of the property complies with the setback variances you still need variances for both building and I understand I understand and also while there may be a view because of the bridge whatever we're calling it if something got built on that bacon lot the paring lot there now there's no view to the ocean there through that correct well I'm not talking about there would be a view through that that you're talking about light and air and space and so what and you said the neighbors view of the ocean my point is that if something got developed in that undeveloped LX store wouldn't that block that the neighbor no the reason why I say that is because that's a front yard so that house facing Ocean Avenue has got to meet that front yard setback on the one side and it's going to be tucked Beyond I'm sorry talking about the neighbor to the it would only we could only keep that view if the person on that lot actually builds what they're supposed to on their lot as opposed to coming in next and varing is on setb yeah but but my point is the view that the neighbor to the west is going to be looking at is never going to be impacted by by that property by the development of that property even with Varon because his view shed is up nework Avenue be realistic nobody's guaranteed and that's true but the view shed is up nework Avenue it's not up the sidewalk so you know I'm hearing this discussion Mr Malone designs a beauti home but and we're talking about a various here a variance here but what I'm hearing is it's too much house right Christine said at the best you're starting from scratch you should build what you're allowed to build ask you want but I that's I think that's the theme here it's too much house kind of getting that a ni lot it's aiz lot to we understand where we're starting from the applicant has a program he's tked us to come before the board and ask for variances we're here as his professionals to provide the testimony to justify why we think for this lot in particular with what's there what's proposed why we think these variances are appropriate and a a better zoning alternative than maintaining what's there today and at the end of the day we understand the board has to make a decision and we understand that you're you struggle with these type of applications in the decision but we as professionals still have have direction from our client that we have you have your obligation to make your client's case sure I I appreciate that you're doing your job and you do it well and I think this board plus spend time on these applications and tries to weigh everything I'm not hearing struggling with a decision nope did I didn't hear what you said not struggling with the decision with the decision oh I'm not hearing a lot of struggling I'm hearing a consistent theme from everyone who's spoken about the application so I I just point that out as your seem to be determined here [Music] but I'm not sitting I'm sitting in the the public question thank you let's Mo forward Thomas J 6 thir Avenue Mr Milo um you said that the rear setback of this garage is 5.08 ft off the line let me check that 5.08 yes great but it's for 20 ft where the existing structure was 35 ft do I understand that correctly the um and I'm just scaling Mr K commit scale this out it looks like the rear the existing rear structure okay it looks like it takes up good portion of the property and I guess maybe um 40 or 35 which be 70% of that rear uh mentioned previously is that correct U 35 ft 70% of the rear line yeah okay um great and I don't and Joe would could has scaled information so if that doesn't if that's not acceptable maybe M Mr kba can clarify great and then how high is this rear structure this rear uh it's two stories so the eve yeah it's there's a story above don't let me go to the elevations please here we go here's the rear rear elevation here so the eve the peak height is one uh the peak okay again I'm going to interpolate a little bit if it's 35 to the ridge4 side yeah that's the house the 35 so the garage I would say 30 ft Max maybe just under 30 ft the Varian plan has a accessory building which I'm assuming is actually the proposed attached barage at 3014 30 point I guess 30 so 3014 and it's not again it's not a tax it's part of the principal structure P portion of not a detx a portion of the principal structure and then the existing structure that's there it's reflected on the survey as one story you know how high that is I do not I do not I can testify and I'm on the RO it's approximately 16t yeah so we're going 20 feet 30 feet high or we're going 35 feet 16 feet high which is better for air and Light 30 ft high at the ridge sure closer to 22 feet at the heat so but uh for for air and light I guess we're taking square footage of this space 22 ft time 21 is closer of 450 as opposed to just that one e that 35 ft * 12 is pretty close to about the same maybe well I would be utilizing the 30 ft and not the the Whole 30 ft that's set back of it okay you use that obviously it's more if you're standing in the back of the building you don't see the ridge but I a good point then the side setbacks um as reflected here are 10 foots required 5.29 5 ft required in your 2.80 does that help with air and light those variances the I'm sorry again uh the side setback Varian is where 10 ft required and 5.29 is offered and 5 ft is required and 2.8 ft is offered are those beneficial to the town for air and light also five 5 ft is required on one side we have 5.08 and as I testify to 10 ft is required on the other we have 12.88 for whatever distance that is then at the garage we 2.88 answer your question air and light in that section is actually better because that's where the rear Cottage is but I see what you're saying it's closer it's the same it's I think again we're heading somewhere where um but I'll continue to answer your questions the attempt for this portion of the house that you see along the west was provide more air and life between the homes in the small portion of the garage the 20 by 20 that's where we have the two story space it's a lot I don't have exact numbers a little interpolation there so and and how many variances could be reduced if this garage was added to the structure and you went to 35 ft you have an idea um well I can't add the garage to the structure because it access but if I took off the garage I mean again we're getting into solutions to comply so but I would if we have more time I'm glad buy me a drink or something let me follow up with that are you going to meet if you pull the garage all the way up are you going to meet the foot R yards at back uh I there's a redesign here it's the furthest I can move the garage is the 10 ft we're at what five right now so we're at 15 so we' be at still need a bar correct and then we're reworking access uh different little different design some re working of of the plan and the side yard in order to get actually have it as a garage are you going to be able to meet 10 ft and have have access for a vehicle to get to that as the house compresses it's going to have to get wider so if we comply with 10 and five with the setback how do you you know trying to think in my head it's it's not I'm not going to work you can't work this plan to make what is wanted here it's it's a redesign given all these comments I'm just things are floating around in my head I guess my point is if you're just shifting the garage forward and maybe off the side Lot line are you going to be able to comply with a 10 foot setback for the size and I think your answer garage it doesn't work as a garage and thens away so it's again there's solution somewhere in here but to work with this and saying keep going over options questions so when Mr Cohen asked how many variances would you reduce the answer is zero because you won't you won't comply with your rear yard yes you'll be more con me but you won't comply correct uh correct the one the one side yard if you moved it over but the garage wouldn't work is a garage so um yeah and I can't pull that garage forward and keeping it as a garage even I have to compress the living room to say 10 ft you could you could pull it forward and allow for one pull what forward you can pull the garage forward and allow for a onear garage it is a onear gar it it's a I can't because I'll have to move to comply after have to comply with the 10ft set back no if you pull the the garage back to the main house right get rid of the hallway right you'll still have plenty of room for a garage door to access the how far is that garage the property line I thought we're going with the 10t set back here which pushes the garage behind the house if it complies my point is you'll still have a 10 set yeah but it's better than what we have now 15 you'll still have a variant request for the side because you need 10 we can't get 10 and have have a gar so no based on what we have let's let's talk about that front structure as as itself if we move the garage forward we're still asking for a side yard setback to conform with the side yard set we can't have a garage door well you're still 10% over on your uh building I mean I think yes my point is with the program we have you're not reducing the variances no no problem no hold on so if you pull the garage back let me answer that please and you enter the garage from the side you have two car I need 23 ft for a turn into the garage then 20 right so you comply then there's no rear door and we're still over on coverage again we can go over Solutions we I do this all the time and I'm sorry we can make suggestions I appreciate it yeah not we're not going to redesign tonight right and the bottom line feedback and feedback is you 5500 life you can build something that conform and I also said I think I also said that and I think I can speak to the board in a bit that some concessions could be granted because of what's Happening Here uh it's a vast improvement from what's there now but going forward it's a clean slate take a look at it come back with something a little more reasonable and just you know shake your head or don't come back because they don't need right there's another way around I mean you could take that garage and flip it 90° and a a turn into it do the patio as I just said the re goes away because you need 23 ft from the lot line to negotiate that turn which I appreciate that the garage pushes back doesn't do anything we're still that rear yard we're still over on coverage so again I appreciate the thoughts but I know what we need this plant you know it'll be difficult it's not just moving or sliding so I'm trying to put it you know done a fantastic job sorry you done a good job so I just spoke my client I'm sorry I know you were talking but um we would like to carry the application to the next available meeting have some time to discuss obviously my clients are in in the uh um the gallery over here listening to the testimony listening to the the questions of the board listening to the concerns of the board um so they have to make some considerations and um so we we ask for a new date to carry it without further notice I think it's wise to do that we're just going around and around trying to redesign something that we can't do so that means Mark comes back next time well that's question speak just be aware we're going to have two new MERS all fairness can can we place you on the reorganization meeting because we haven't adopted dates okay till reor so can we schedule this for the reor for scheduling purposes but you're going to carry it to another date absolutely because I need to get the material if there might be revised material to any new board members so so um our reorganization meeting is uh January 16th okay um that's should say 2025 not 24 and um okay it's just going to be our reor though as of right now I don't have any pending application so once we adopt our dates it'll probably be the February meeting I don't know what that is so so at this point the reorg has been noticed in the press or will be in advance before yeah before the end of this month so we're going to carry it with the understanding that it's going to be carried officially on the record again motion to carry to January 16 January 16 2025 for scheduling purposes and okay all in favor so this is old right what is this I think it's be thank you very much thank [Music] youur bu all in favor Merry Christmas you Happ ch [Music] [Music] I'm uh yeah I'm here