##VIDEO ID:7c1UNwN2V2E## [Music] whole are you and I don't know middle to meet [Music] in tell me we're good okay let's call the order L board meeting for November 21st rice 48 hour notices required under the open public meetings act have been met as notice this meeting was was emailed on January 23rd 2024 published in the press the post and poster fil with the B CL and is posted on the board office um mayor fo M Hernandez here uh Council Mahoney here Mr Marco president chair mayor here mror here um Mr sh here um Miss Riley I already excuse this evening Miss SAR here miss Bernell here miss boo here uh Mr seith is excused this evening and Miss R is also excus this um also present uh Mark attorney of the board J our board engineer and Christine Bell our boarder couple things before we start uh how we proed with these meetings Please be aware that the meeting is recorded uh for transcription The public's ask not to interrupt comment in any way or disrupt the presentation of the meeting in general once the luse board opens an application the applicant or attorney will make their presentation with Witnesses and your professionals members of the board may ask questions and cross-examine each witness of the of the applicant as needed excuse me members of the audience will be able to ask questions of the applicant and Witnesses based only on the testimony given at the end of each witness's presentation at the end at that time no comments testimony or evidence from the public will be accepted board may also call its own Witnesses and present its own evidence with respect to any appli once the application's concluded once the once the applicant concluded the presentation the board will their presentation we will open the board pardon one day four hours soon once the applicant has concluded their presentation and the board opens this to the public comment the public is welcomed to make comment present evidence and testimony regarding application each person must be scorn in on the oath and is limited to 5 minutes if desired the applicant may cross-examine you based on your testimony more hearing is needed to complete the application will be carried for a future date no new application will start after 9:30 p.m. unless the board applicate agree if be concluded in a timely manner the board reserves final decision the board will adjourn a reasonable hour and rarely will witness be called by testimony of the there's no correspondence this evening uh next order business is the approval and Adoption of meeting minutes from our regular meeting of October 17th 2024 for appr uh Mr Mayor yes Mr her mandez yes mayor Fox yes M Marco yes uh C Mahone yes Miss har yes missel yes M yes and chair mayor yes okay we have three resolutions for memorialization the first resolution is resolution 2012 24-22 this is approval of a use variant to administer permanent makeup Services Marked with beauty LLC block 45.2 705 rley Avenue make a motion for appr I got Ariana is my second actually Ariana you weren't eligible to vote online oh sorry who was who was my second Mr Mayor yes Miss Aris yes mandez yes Mr Marco yes Miss berau yes and chair mayor yes thank you uh resolution 20 24-23 approval of both fances for side guard setback for proposed second floor addition are let that lot 18 Lot 19 12 make a motion for appr second mror yes M yes Miss Hernandez yes Mr Marco yes Council Mahoney yes mayor Fox yes M berel yes and chair mayor yes thank you resolution 202 24-24 approval of both bar is for the proposed demolition of the existing dwelling and construction of a new two-story dwelling Jin pong Block 17 10 401 New York you on that mror want M Mr Marco yeah mayor fo Mell yes Miss yes and chair yes okay um applications under consideration for this evening our first application under consideration is Lu 2412 this is a parents to retain a br driveway Susan quinland Ry BL 79 22 418 Avenue the applicants requesting a variance to retain a driveway which have been constructed you're going to be swor in who else is going to be providing we got a little group here my hband and do you want to sweare everybody in the same time yeah just anybody who's going to test just come off the name grey registered architect CJ here and Doug professional engineer raise your right please two professionals youir tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth proceeding thank you you can just you know explain your situ I'm um I'll tell a little bit of back story about how we got here and then um I'm going to toss it over to CJ and Doug so um my parents bought this house my name Su Ry my parents bought this house over 4 years ago summer home eventually retired there um some of you may know my parents uh Bob and Kate cland my dad served on this very use boort uh for many years um and that plaque on the wall back there is in honor of my brother who was Kia in Afghan so we've been here a super long time before we were here we were now on By the Sea um so over 85 years for around this town so I purchased the house at 418 um in 2015 my father the year after my mother unexpectedly passed he could no longer afford to make ends me I wanted him to be able to stay in his home my dad stayed in home until he passed in 2021 uh the house was 120 years old I'm sure you see this a lot um and so after much discussion with my husband and myself we were trying to renovate it but that was not going to happen so we decided to do a rebuild um and then we also decided to move Aran fulltime to Bradley Beach so we're here full time now um this was an absolute dream for me um so much fun to build the house um I just had the time of my life um I was very careful to make sure the house was um feeling like the architecture of the House of the town all old and detailed I wanted to come across that way not like a very modern beach house um this is where I found CJ our architect um retained him to design a conforming home and back house on the property conforming is an important word because um I had heard all the stories from my father about but um the variance is here and I did not want to put myself or my neighbors in that position um so unfortunately not that I don't love meeting all of you I finded myself here uh we made a lot of changes um to keep our house conforming we worked with the town to modified State been codes our architect CJ read through many codes and unfortunately did not interpret this particular code to include grass the drawings were submitted and approved to the zoning officer you have one of the approved plans in your packet uh which we saw was inclusive of a driveway on the plan so if you look at the plan you'll see what we believe is a rri driveway it was not unfortunately interpreted that way by the zoning officer we went to get ourco after the house was built and we failed to the ribbon driveway um that was news to us a surprise to us um so we are asking to keep this ribbon driveway strip as it is the driveway is built we understood if we understood it was allowed we would was all would have changed it at the moment we we would have found that out before we built we would have changed it um we've researched other scenarios each one would have will lead us to a variance as that strip was part of our coverage so the driveway was a large Financial investment it has Sprinklers and sad in the strip there's six gr grass R driveways alone on our street and many others around town even a gravel strip on a new build on Evergreen Avenue um so this is not out yeah might go un let see um this is not out of ordinary for Bradley Beach um the driveway does promote water drainage which we have some of my neighbors here tonight everyone's very concerned about water where water goes so we feel really good that this the grass is in the driveway um and this also Keeps Us under the limit of coverage for I don't know if it's per and per coverage I'm not an expert but whatever that is we're under that liit um so we took a lot of care in building this house it's our forever dream and we would like to keep the grass as so I will I think toss it over to CJ before question question no issues with no no but maybe if I could just speak little bit here and maybe condense things um so in in the Bur is I cannot find driven driveways that are not allowed I also can't find where they are allowed it's one of those catch catch things right so um the section it appears the zoning officer looked at talks about how the driveway can't be grass stone gravel that type of material well the the driveway they built is concrete strips going all the way down with piece of grass in the middle which has been irrigated and everything else I know it's it's it's something I think we should go back and visit that ordinance and clean up the language a little bit that's that's that's a point while T I think it needs to go to the council and have change the ORD yeah and I the only want to comment on it because it really is not clear and I can see where their professionals may have misinterpreted or interpreted one way and the Z is interpreting different way this frankly helps the time it does uh it keeps their um it locks over 4% lock coverage off their projects so my opinion is they're here um maybe the best course of action if the board agrees is to hear all the testimony and then make a decision or you're not really going to hear any testimony any different than what I've just told you I and I know app invested in architect time such here but I don't I don't be it's going to come some redundant we already know what it is it's a misinterpretation of the yeah or a different interpretation call we careful not to position ourselves as just whatever happened happened it's just I get both sides we're here so I don't I don't know if you want them to go through T public question right now and then um if that there nothing there the architect we put in succinctly what we're doing and Mo on uh open opens up the Public Public question of the applicant of what of Our Testimony see now we close it we have your I apologize hi my name is um nice to see you um uh Alexandra ESO my husband Michael and I live at 4408 Evergreen Avenue um I'm hoping that you all will right now just questions questions only the the okay I'm sorry s now we close it have CJ come up Christine before we before we proceed from your point of view as our planning standpoint I see no issue I mean um I think she provided testimony there's six others on her street I know we recently granted a variance for a ribbon driveway because we felt it was a better planning alternative in that instant um because it did reduce the overall coverage of a lot I I I have a tendency to talk a lot so I'm I'm ask I'm going to I'll skip a lot of it and summarize a couple things a lot of I'll you I I'll I'll I'll summarize a couple quick things and maybe um give you a little bit of my research to help with your conversation with the zodan officer um one is it was very important to them to have a conforming design at one point we did get a denial for there was a we had a driveway that was closer than 2 ft to the property line and we said listen we are ready to submit the Builder ready to roll the is ready to start the foundation and Susan said no um you know rules are in place for a reason we have to revise the design with no you know cost some time um you know it was very important to so let all I'll say about that and then one more thing just to clarify the code interpretation a little bit I think this will help your conversations with the zoning officer if you do revisit the wording of the code there's three sections in the code that refer to the materials used in driveways the the one section I'll start backwards the the one first section is non-residential parking specifically says no lawn area buffer strip or other unpaved area shall be used blah blah BL I won't read the whole thing um the second section single family town homes and apartments no lawn area buffer strip or other unpaved areas shall be used for parking Motor Vehicles third section single family residential this is a section that applies to our single family dwelling it does not say no lawn area or buffer strip it very different terminology in my experience if there's similar intentions for different sections of the code that are referring to the same kind of concept it's going to have similar wording the single family residential section says shall be improved with the dust free durable all weather material said material is deemed to include concrete asalt brick concrete papers but shall exclude gravel stone or other similar materials and also in my experience that's that usually refers to them trying to remove uh something that could be um debris wrong work but something that could spin in car tires or you know hit somebody's windshield or roll out into the street and now you got stone and gravel in the street so um ribbons are something I look for because different townships interpret them different ways some say it's coverage some say it's not some say it's 50% some say they don't want them some say they do want them um so anyway I'll stop there don't any okay question for the board the open portion of the application up to the public for questions to the architect regarding this see none opens up now for public comment May okay sorry sorry I of time you have have to come up you have to come forward you have to come up I have to come up yes state your name and address and I'll swear you I go I saw the mic picture okay everybody can hear me okay um my name is Alexandra espito I live at 408 Evergreen Avenue just raise your right hand please do sarir to tell the truth the whole truth I nothing about the truth proing I do so help me God yes um I just hope you guys um um you know Susan and Greg have a beautiful beautiful home we also had issues at our house my husband and I had a runner driveway the zoning office sort of makes it very very difficult for new Builders um we had a lot of issues we had in our initial plans a runner going up to our porch our landscaper called and said it would be better drainage if we extended this Runner driveway further back the previous zoning officer prior to uh Miss bar coming on board um said oh no problem we didn't get anything in writing and so the landscaper extended the ribbon driveway uh further back on our property um so then when we submitted to get a CO we were told by Donna bar that oh no so the problem is is that um ordinance is left uh for interpretation and I'm hoping that our town can address this um it was very vague um but the prior zoning officer said no issue and so we built the runner driveway all the way down then all of a sudden now we had to fill fill it in and not only did it mean we had to fill in take out the the gravel but we had then provide um prvious coverage um elsewhere and it and it costs I mean about um probably about $10,000 to redo so I I just I'm hoping you you grant president Greg um you know their their R drive it just you've had issues all right and and thank you for your consideration any other please for C Chan 414 M you to tell the truth I do uh really briefly so we're we have one house in between us um and Susan and Greg told us when they started building a few years ago that they were going to ask for no variances um my home office looks out right over the site and the Beautiful house now so I watched them and it was meticulous construction if that helps anybody I mean they did everything so beautifully I watched your work to do it it was a completely clean site it was quiet um so I had no excuses I had to work because it wasn't really that so anyway if it means anything everything that they say is true and uh and so I hope you grant their thank is this comments Mr comments okay Co 612 thirr Avenue uh when I looked at the agend yes I do when the agenda came out I was riding around and went to visit someone at 610 Brinley Avenue which was previously a vacant lot in 2018 and now there's a house there and I realized oh there's a ribbon driveway but that was two zoning officers ago so again there's been different interpretations over the years um I I like your comment Mr that it should be included in your 2024 annual report to the council where they could then make the change for the future but uh in this case should definitely be approved it's visually very attractive thank you any other comments see them close yes your father was here for years sat right here I pulled up on hold because I've never been one of these I pulled up an old one it was when you guys were on zoom and my dad popped up on YouTube like oh my God he wasn't shy about feel like he's trying to he wasn't shy about he wasn't shy about any other comments make motion to approve the application no yeah we havee Mr Miss s yes M Hernandez yes Mr Marco yes Council mom uh yes what I just like to say um the purpose of Municipal land use law 40 55 C- 2i is provote a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangement this ribbon driveway is an example of that while not inreasing the impermeable lot coverage so yes mayor fo yes Mr yes and chair May yes thank you good congratulations the resolution will be next month and then we'll get there you just have to put a little notice in the newspaper thank you want your pictur pict we don't need them they weren presented so it's fine whatever was submitted we're going to leave that in the file okay thank you so much thank you good thing I set up that easel Sor it's okay all right at least we did I okay the next application yes the next application under consideration is l411 final major subdivision the b r Beach block 41 lot one 419 Marine Avenue the applicants proposing to sub divide the existing partial into four Residential Building Lots okay the applicant is represented by Michael Ash sire Mark have you reviewed the notice I have reviewed the notice uh the board can accept jurisdiction um and what I would just add um this is an application which uh I don't want to steal Mr as Thunder but we would refer to this as a subvision by white uh the applicant is not seeking variance no variance being requested thank you um good evening everyone my name is Michael J Ash I'm a partner in the law firm Carlin Bo Ash and H that's h i a r t our offices of for Park um it's my great honor to represent the B Bry Beach um I want to thank everybody for the service here I am chairman of the planning board in the town where I resides I how thanless this can be sometimes um as your Council noted um this is a fairly straightforward application um this is a preliminary and major subdivision application um for a fully conforming as of right no variances no rers um and the intent as indicated in the application is to subdivide into lots and so there are no homes that are currently proposed as part of this application so this application is uh merely creating lines on survey um to take one lot and create four fully conforming Lots under your um I will have testimony this evening uh from one witness you may be familiar he's the B engineer um Mr Ben Matlock from the CME firm and um just by way of brief brief introduction um I think the um there's some statements in your board Engineers review letter um that I think accurately summarize this application as we get into the merits of it um and I'm reading from Mr fr's November 6 2024 letter um he describes the property as the site being located on the Southeast corner of the intersection of r Avenue and Madison Avenue street address is 39 L Avenue in Block 41 there's a total area of 24,000 FT Property currently consists of a vacant church um and a vacant dwelling and the applicant the B is proposing to remove the existing structures and amenities and proposing for informing Lots properties are located in the R1 residential single family Zone and the existing church is a per conditional use in the district the op Camp is proposing single family dwelling on each lot which is a permitted use in the district um again this is not a site plan application subdivision this is just the locks just the land at this time um and the properties are subject to the bulk regulations of the R1 residential SLE County Zone and we'll get into the criteria of that zone with the testimony of Mr M so sare Mr again along with M Bell Mr fra you to tell the truth the whole truth enough but the truth toight proceeding thank you very much um do we need to get into your credential we know we know who he is okay great for the record will stipulate Mr mat is a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey with current all right very good so Mr matl why don't you walk us through the subdivision as proposed sure uh so as you uh mentioned it is a fully conforming subdivision uh for lot um subdivision in a residential Zone uh the proposed uh end use is residential um and we are requesting a few waivers tonight uh for this uh application uh the size and location of all existing and proposed structures with all setbacks and lengths uh measured uh room their building walls and and and dimensions uh we're requesting a waiver from that because we are not proposing any uh new structures we're also requesting uh the size and location of all existing structures within 200 ft of the site uh again nothing's being proposed it's just lines on on the uh survey so we're requesting that waiver as well uh the last waiver we're requesting is the grading and utility plan uh again no improvements are proposed at this time uh so we're requesting that beli uh your uh board engineer did identify uh one one Minor error on on our zoning table which we can certainly fix and uh that have no issue with that being a conditional approval uh and the other conditions of approval that that are recommended in the board Engineers letter we had no issue with that and we can simpe if you would why don't you U why you go to the board and just you know quickly identify the site and um just confirm that all the lots and the dimensions proposed just to be clear that one approval what that actually is uh the condition of Ru yeah so the there was an issue with uh the lot sizes and our in our zoning table uh they're all identified as 5500t Lots uh with the exception of 1.04 7500 ft but in reality the this corner lot is uh 6,000 ft and then this uh next lot in uh lot 1.02 is 5,000 uh so that that's where the issue was those were identified as 5500 you could just sure lot 1.01 is 6,000 ft lot 1.02 is 5,000 ft and that will be corrected on the uh zoning table Yeah right thank you very and just 5,000 square ft is conform yes the minimum lot size for the the R1 zone is 5,000 uh we do conform to that um excuse me the lot dimensions are also uh conforming minimum uh Frontage minimum lot depth are all conforming and then the minimum setbacks are conforming uh we're only showing the setback lines on this plan because we don't have any proposed structures but the uh intent is for these lots to be fully conforming uh and plot PL will have to be submitted to uh you know upon the building of these laws and any variances that are requested would have to come back to the land Bo at that time propos Lots correct so it's a standard way to show the building envelope done all the time doesn't mean they're going to build a house in that whole block because they can't because they would need building coverage Etc this just gives a small parameter to buys the property to know that their structure has to be some principal structure has to be in that without triggering without triggering sometimes the way the code is written and the way an application is prepared um you can have subdivision where uh there's an owner who's proposing to subdivide and also the structures the residences and then sell the completed new resid this is not the case the intents is subdivide the land in the future the individual Lots could be sold to individual owners who would then have to Avail themselves of your building process by filing an application for a building permit Etc with its own zoning review and by then hopefully permissible back here so assuming there's an approval toight assuming that on these lots a potential buyer would have the ability to build a conforming house without any variances correct so if they came back to this board they' you see variances that are not currently yes and and there would be review by zoning officer first when that application for single County resident building permit is filed and to the extent that there are any uh variances needed they would be back here before the board but that is each lot stands on Z correct his own presentation yes right now just yes correting anything You' like to add I I don't think there's anything else uh unless the board has any questions open this up to the public questions for the engineer Thomas Joan 64 Third Avenue um Mr M could you give me the foundational basis for the request for the waiver on C2 for the grading plan uh yeah at at this time there's no proposed uh improvements to the property uh so a grading plan was not prepared uh individual plot plans will be prepared when um when those lots are developed so there would be separate and apart grading plans for each property that's right um wouldn't it be more feasible for the gring plant be established now as this is a Halfacre property to protect the Neighbors on Madison and on rain establish the grain plant as per the ordinance there is no hardship in your request well without knowing the size shape location of the houses uh we can't prepare a grading plan I think what you're getting at is that the current lot is um you know elevated up the the church is is kind of on an elevated uh Mound on the lot and at you know as a condition of approval the lot the uh buildings have to be removed uh before the subdivision can be perfected at that time the lot would be leveled uh so that you don't have uh a significant grade difference from the existing property as it is to the neighboring properties so you'll be removing those retaining walls is that your test there there is no plan corre currently right now but uh yes you know the the demolition of the the property would include uh removing the structures and and some to make the land Mr K the question that's being bantered here this is there's no construction going on by this application there is is strictly drawing the lines and it has to go through to the next process of the demolition plot and then that's a whole another process and they trying mixing together right now is strictly nobody strictly to the line and that's it nothing more nothing less Mr chair trying to establish I know that but but this is not the place because there's no destruction here so if you understand that then we don't go [Music] felys what we're talking I know you don't agree but that's okay M Mr M just mentioned uh that there's going to be demolition in that case place as a condition of approval and that means the B will app for demolition permit and that permit will have its own conditions at the time that demolition takes place and that you know will govern how the building comes down when it can come down and how the site is left after the improvements taken in total that at the conru the tear down of the the buildings they'll be taking in total not individ four individual correct and how the site is left a vacant lot go to the for right will be right that will be dealt with in the demolition permit phase and that is even before the four individual lots are ready for construction then question um I have some more questions um Mr M is there a reason the subdivision black doesn't show the existing structures in a gray scale uh for ease of of re it there the existing structures are survey which I had isn't that usually covered as scale overlay a Subdivision plat so we know what's there it doesn't have to be okay um we can go back to that one you just head up because I have another question thank you sir um I was wondering uh here in item six under your general notes I know you didn't prepare this this just prepared by someone else but well that's a little too big uh existing frame dwelling to remain all other structures shall be removed could you tell me what the existing frame structure is uh I believe that's probably the the parsonage building but the testimony is that everything's going to be demolished so well the testimony is uh as a condition of approval to perfect the subdivision at some point in the future which is not the approval today this is not perfecting the subdivision in order to perfect the subdivision demolition of the improvements will be re but that's not what this map says which is part of the application well I think and may Mr Frey can can clarify this but I think the intention of this condition is to not create any variances when the subdivision lines are are created uh right now where the the building the the church sits the subdivision lines are going through the building so in order to have a conforming subdivision and not create variances or encroachments uh the church has to be G is that is that accur yeah it is and I guess and I don't know this for sure because I didn't prepare this but existing parentage if it were to be left there would there be any variances under the subdivision I don't believe so no okay so the option to actually renovate that building would be in play for the borrow if they wish to do that or whoever buys this subdivision down the road a builder to build that's a lot not 1.04 but if they need variances for side yard or whatever because of its location on lock we'll have to come back to this board for approval that's correct otherwise um but that's not a look it's an old building canas AR is going to take it down when they take the church down I don't know it's going to really depend maybe on who buys this it can be stipulated well can it be stipulated I mean you could I guess but a condition that that either has to come down or it has to stay but I don't know why it would really matter at this point just looking at if the board felt that way I guess you could make that a condition to approval well we're not to that point and propos to BU any that so the request as I understand is removing all structures except the par well I think that that would go f future decisions that would need to be made as to how the site is eventually developed and sold I don't know as a matter of law that the board could impose a condition not a fully conforming as right condition thises well okay so typically a condition of approval in a subdivision where there's par well but there's there structures oner and there's been no decision made at this time there's been no application filed for and the decision could be made by the applicant in the future for complete demolition of all structures or or partially I'm not disputing that I'm just as I understand it that tonight your representation is that all the structures will be removed except the POR understand I think well I would say that the to the extent that the uh buildings need to be removed to be a conforming subdivision with no variances we would do that so what they're saying is if the porcentage REM is in a location that after the subdivision doesn't require any variances if they would like to renovate it they may move forward to do that if it needs renovation and it is a variant situation they may El to take it then but they want that option um going forward it's basically where we're at but the subdivision is a subdivision that doesn't change these lines so everything else is getting moved except that right okay or that may come down too right it could don't yeah that's kind of a little wrink um a wrinkle just a little odity but you know I mean it's not like and they have additional Lots or they have a huge lot and there was a house that's off center it's no think going back to the original the waivers and such I don't want the lab I understand what the waivers for we not talking but the par of space you're only going to be able to remediate any rating for three of the Lots partially the fourth lot four I don't know that's great thing the lot the lot's done it should be one flat lot ready I think that'd be an engineering question in the scope of a demolition permit that's I know that's what I'm getting ahead of ourselves right now it's just it's just just just right but just unfortunately that just I don't think trly was really aware that that option so it do but yes we are just here to up a lot one more question I you to Mr mlac if the gray scale was on that subdivision flag would show our that would then reflect what variances would be required or not uh any would be required yes okay for 44 Avenue I just wanted to know is deed restriction um part of this application is that something that would be if that was uh of interest for the applicant I believe the application says that the properties will be deed restri to only be developed with permitted uses in the so does that need to be a part of the application in order to secure deed restriction at this phase not sure I understand this what's going to happen this going to create four laws and D restriction implies certain limiting use or size or whatever there is nothing being proposed so I don't know how we have a deed restricted restrict in terms of the for form lot is what I'm referring to as as opposed to I'm missing missing I'm specifically saying it's my understanding that that the um this application was going to go forward to include deep restriction on these four conforming Lots so someone could not easily um come and purchase the lot and go forward with a plan to utilize the entire lot um that that it's it's con four conforming lots restri for a period of time individual they can't be Consolidated again correct for a period of time 30 years I don't know whatever that conri the the the application does say that the um explanation of request on the first page of the application subdivide into fouring and D restriction allowing only permitted uses of onet property so the permitted use in the R1 zone is residential if you to her point if there were something different proposed they would have to come back to this board for that project they would have to come back to the board in any case if they wanted right so doesn't that sort of equalize they would have to come back to the board but if there was a de so it sounds like there's a deed restriction in this application unless that's just ver foruse for the use for the use so for so that deed restriction implies a period of time so it it would not would that supersede a developer coming in and building um multi-unit requesting variances for m you can't vot it wouldn't prevent him from trying to do do that but they would have to come back to this board to get approval and the board would if this was approved would then say would then indicate that not only are they for conforming last but that they it's also de restricted that's right do that okay thank you please uh Brian 311 um just point out that in the application and description of property sey um basically says removing all the structure so it contradicts what that note six that was talked about so just point that out you got clean something up that's fine um on the the next phase the demolition permit does that require part notification for the people we got the notification as we live close to the church demolition phase require the same notification a demolition permit does not require 200 okay so public won't have input on the demolition Bas rating and all that fun stuff correct well so another interesting rifle here is the out of the burrow right so to the exent that that um the neighborhood would want you know to be informed and notified um you know reach out to the the mayor and officials and and ask for that but there's nothing required there's there's nothing there's no specific legal requirement in the municipal land use law that gives neighbors within 200 ft notice there's no similar law or demolition permits but because the out is the burrow I think you know an extra level of informing the public as to what next steps would be Council would um you know make actions at a public meeting regarding you know putting up uh demolition project out to bid or anything like that um and the last question is more of a general Zone question for that zone are back houses allowed 1.04 parking requirements of the yes all right thank you question half Avenue I'm a little confused because in all the conversations in burrow Hall um about what was going to be done with this property you know what I would call our insur Assurance is that there would be deed restrictions and that those deed restrictions at a minimum would prevent any of those properties for to you know any anybody who proposed to build on any of those properties to ask for abuse variance there the application does include the deed restriction what exactly is that de restriction and what does it mean in the end that's where I'm becoming confused because I keep hearing that we can still come back for for the variances the D restriction is allowing only permitted uses on the the four Lots permitted uses are single family homes right the variances that are are being discussed are bulk variances so uh side setback or lot coverage or anything like that because we don't know who the Builder is going to be uh who who the ultimate end user owner is going to be and they may want to build a house that requires a variance if they do a variance like what I just setbacks or things like that if they wanted to do that they would have to come back to and my spe my specific question really is can they come back ask for a use variant and get it or is that so here I'll I'll I'll answer that is legally could that happen when there's a de restriction saying that it won't happen anybody can ask for anything right so if you're asking would somebody be forbidden from from making an application answer to that would be no however there's a deed restriction saying that they can't do that is that zoned for that it would question was really rather simple and it and I I perhaps I misstated it I wasn't picturing it as a restriction against somebody asking for it I was picturing it is it is there a restriction against the board granting it and that's what I was told at Council meetings that there would be that they that a zoning board would not be able to Grant a use variance on those properties if they were deep restricted that's what that's what we would like to believe and and my answer is is that belief correct or is it erroneous I I I can't comment on what was said no that's not what I'm asking with all due respect I'm asking about whether this board could in fact Grant a use varant it's a simple question I'm I'm I'm answering your question and I could do without the the old due respect because that usually doesn't mean that um to respect on not feeling terribly respected I'm asking a simple question can yes please I'm going to read right from the application okay and explanation of request the applian intends to subdivide into four conforming laws and deed restriction allowing only permitted uses upon said product so we haven't the actual language that's going to be in the deed restriction but I think the intent here is to have a deed restriction for only uses existing the R1 Z which is single family and I continue to have the same question if someone comes back and in spite of that de restriction asks for a different use for example two Friendly House we can't predict that I'm not I'm not asking someone can come pleas don't interrupt me I didn't finish my question please it's a yes or no question in the end yes that's the answer the answer is that if somebody comes back and asks for a two family house on on one of those properties would this board have the legal authority to Grant it that's a yes or no question so the answer was yes Mr Mayer the board can as constitute can generate a decision as a variance if that's if it's if the case is made and make sense for the town but just be realistic we ask four single family homes lots that the town is the applicant is going to restrict itself to single family homes and that's all that's going so but then it's really not do you know so because it's not going to be the town that builds the homes so and and I've seen zoning boards constitute and reconstitute with all you and again forgive you I think what you what we're saying is it's in the best interest of the Town who is the applicant to maintain single family homes on those four Lots it's not it doesn't um behoove the town to decide to allow an applicant to put a two family home in it's inconsistent with what I'm I'm just I'm just checking my and you're right we do there is an authority that could be possibly I guess voted yes on but based on on the ordinance and what we're trying to accomplish within the town that's probably not likely it's just inconsistent the answer is POS possible but unlikely see that I had the misunderstanding that that D restriction meant that the board then could not grant that particular variance so I was wrong well can I clarify something too yes so this this proposes this is an extra Step Beyond just the board having to Grant a variant and consider the planning testimony for a use that's not consistent in the R1 that would be true of any property in the R1 when somebody was trying to build a two family or multi family this application and the bur is committed to the extra step of the deep restriction I think at some point if somebody tried that there would be an extra step there would be a legal opinion Point as to whether or not this board could even hear that application but we don't know because it's not a a question we're we're answered right now it would require that first initial legal threshold question can that applicant apply even though there's a deed restriction that may stop them at that point or not depending on on the answer to that question okay thank you any other questions please hi Jette P 31 so I think you mentioned earlier that the one lot 1.04 would allow a back house yes why would that be 7500 anything so even though my experience that street has a lot of back houses and people with driveways don't use their driveway so it makes a parking problem we can't control it the house has has we all been B zli or zoning ordinances they allow us a back house a garage apartment with a driveway lead to the garage we can't W says You must be there's no way to prevent the future of backous I understand houses that have existing back houses but there's no way to prevent but the counil the council last year the council last year bu the ordinances 7500 minimum lock size have garage departments they also allow garage departments on Corner blocks but still 7500 ft minimum size was 5,000 ft and no garage departments on and each of these will have off street parking of requ of course parking even in the winter because there a lot of permanent residents on that street so even in the winter these are conforming lot so they have to thank you um Anthony Laro 703 Madison Avenue um I'm just trying to make sure I can clarify whether the intent is for four separate properties four separate lots to be sold or is it one develop subdividing four Lots so the Lots if this is approved the borrow can go ahead and affect subdivision okay which means the four Lots will now exist on your tax man four different Lots four right then the burrow they're not in the business of building home so they probably look to sell the Lots either to one Builder or four different Builders or yeah um and they will have to um put plans together for that their new home and uh as long as there's no variances the zoning officer can give them approval and they can go ahead and build their house it can be inspected and everything else that the town does for their normal projects if there's any variances needed we call them Bol variances if they're needed at all they're going to have to come back to this board for whatever the reason is yeah but I don't think anyone would anticipate that but the actual sale of the Lots going to be sold as four Lots one lot I I think the borrow is going to probably look to do the best they can for the borrow itself can they make more money do them individually can they make more money sell them together can they make more money do them two and two is there an intent right now though do but if it's approved tonight there will be four individual laws right I think some of the questions just kind of stend towards if one person buys it then they can come back and potentially do something other than well they can't they could request but they'll be only things permitted in this zone are single family hes and then there'll be that additional deed restriction that you know it would be up to the attorney at that time to determine if they even are able to request to use question the burrow the burrow stent have to Avail itself of the legal process which is likely going to be you know a public bid to get the most money possible for each B so so depending on who's willing to pay the most it could be four individual buyers or it could be one buyer who wants to build four houses whatever's going to raise the most money for for the burrow that that would be how they decide who who is the ultimate buy so houses it to be four separate would the girl take down the church then have to figure that piece out so that's that's what we were discussing earlier the bur is going to have to demolish the church because otherwise you're going to have the improvements that span the new lot lines and that would not be allow ask ask you up and say the burrow will take down the church the burrow itself is not going to take down the church well our agents WECT it has to be clear about that the I me the bur is applicant clear the bur is applicant so to complete what's in front of you the church would have to come down the other building would not could possibly awesome okay so it'll be to that all right so I just want to add just for responsive to your question a lot of I think planning was designed to make sure that these are four fully conforming lots and that's how this is being presented so if someone were to come and we we've had applications so there's a lot of commentary you could build the structure on this property well this is designed for someone to build a conforming structure on the property so if someone would come were to come here even for a bolk variance on on an application be a really good reason the you know the board is going to want to be asking a lot of questions why you can't build a fully conforming structure on this knowing that this has been sub way so that you you don't very corre yeah so we've been looking at that church for 22 years and we love it first of all but it is what it is we at that point thank you all for taking this as seriously as you appreciate it thank you thank you yes Linda Duffy 312 lley my property joins Linda Duffy 32 312 rley Avenue my property ad joins the back of the church I just want a little bit more clarification on the structure that's remaining on um notations uh number six on the Cy plot plan uh wouldn't it be in the best interest to have that either taken off or clarified better so you ask the applicant that question oh the I I don't know if it was a mistake I don't know what the intent is is going to be of that ultimate lot uh but the intention of this application is to make a conforming subdivision uh that building I don't doesn't need to be removed in order to in order for the subdivision to be uh allowed uh the church does have to be removed so that as as Mr Frey said the the lot lines don't cross the the building it doesn't uh overlap on the you know all the other Lots uh the burrow May demolish that building I don't know or or a a developer May de demolish that building or they may renovate it I'm not sure I don't even know if that building's condemned no one's lived in it for years but I think we need a definite clarification on that before we go forward with approving anything tonight well a a I think that was if the building is condemned and a developer came and fixed it up you know they would need building permits and they would have to get their their uh inspections by the building department uh to get a certificate of a so that there's another permit process that that accounts for that okay and um I'm sorry I don't know your name Michael hi Mich I'm Lind um you said the de restrictions haven't been written yet when are they going to be written as part of the as part of the subdivision Perfection process so this is just a delineation of lines it's it's the approval that allows the final engineering to come up with a final Subdivision plat which is the math and then there will be individual surveys for the Lots with meets and Bounds description and then there will be the individual Deeds with the descriptions for the new laws so presumably in the Deeds for the new laws that's where youd have the deed restriction from the burrow to the purchaser all right and my other question is why why would this be here application is requesting waiver on B 181 19 and C2 why would it even have to be here for us to see and concern ourselves with uh because because the proposed structures we don't know what those are yet they are going to be individual single family homes uh but there the ultimate developer is going to come up with those plans we don't know what the size or shape of the house is going to look like or where it's going to be located on a lot so that that accounts for B18 uh b19 uh the size location of all existing structures with within 200 ft of the site uh that is the the survey shown here uh shows I believe it's uh buildings and structures within 50 ft uh it so that you can see where the structures are on the adjoining properties uh surrounding a lot but 200 ft it's it's unnecessary in my opinion to show you know four different Lots away from from this property uh all those structures uh so we're requesting that that waiver and then the grading and utility plan again we don't know what the ultimate uh development of each individual lot is going to be so we're requesting a waiver of that okay thank you any other questions opens portion of the application up public comment please when you come up state your name and address and I'll where you sure my name is Bridget D 3 Tru the whole Tru truth proceeding thank you good evening my name is and thank you for um hearing my comments this evening and um I'm not actually going to comment on the actual subdivisions um but I really would like to comment more on the waiver that is pertaining to the grading um so I heard your comments um regarding that um that's not relevant but I think that as somebody who lives right next door to this property I'm concerned that there's just a waiver at all at this point on this matter um I've lived here for 19 years um this property this church has been there for 120 years and there are as it was stated before there are HID structur you can't even see some of the walls um you know I've never seen water in my basement and that's unique in Bradley Beach uh and my concern is that a waiver means we're ignoring this as an issue and that's my concern as a neighbor my concern for all of my neighbors and their properties and as the board I hope that you will take this into consideration because your job is to protect the properties and so it's not just the property that's under consideration but also the neighboring properties and so I hope that you will take that into consideration tonight because I am concerned that by giving a blanket waiver here you may be seeing something in the future but there are so many unknowns about this right now that there are so many questions this evening that really couldn't be answered then why give a waiver at this point in time and I think that at this point my concern is that by doing that you could be putting us at risk as Neighbors and so I ask that you not do that and I ask that you not do the waiver um you know we there are different even concerns around how this will be done because it may not all happen at one time right we may see a demolition you may see different plans for each of these sections so why do wait for wait until we know more dets wait until you actually have a better understanding of all of this because right now to me there's too many questions so I don't understand why that a waiver should be granted at this time I don't see a need for a waiver and in fact there should be a need to actually provide that no go ahead so we are requesting a waiver for uh from submitting a grading and utility plan for the purposes of a subdivision however that a grading and utility plan will be required by a developer Who develops each individual lot for all four Lots at once and that will be reviewed by the building department uh by the the engineers office and the the grading does have to be approved uh before it can go before building permits are issued so we're the reason we're requesting it is because we don't know who the developer is we don't know what the buildings are going to look like where they're going to be situated on each each property so that's why the waiver is being requested uh if if we were to submit that now the ultimate buildings will not what I can draw up because I'm I'm not going to be the one developing each property yeah and to just to add to that um the application that was submitted again just for creation of lots um that grading plan was not submitted because it was not applicable at this time for the reasons that he just described the application was deemed complete without that and the the review letter which is very thorough says applicant is requesting a weaver we're not requesting a waver of a designed standard of your land use it's really it's a right it's an exception to a checklist item that is not applicable for this application and this isn't some attempt to ignore grading it's just that the the regrading of the entire site is not part of the relief that the op seeking tonight it will be addressed during the demolition phase of the improvements where you know it is is my hope that the burrow would through their contractor and oversight of the F engineer you know take great care in how those improvements are are demolished and how the site is graded and left after demolition which would be an interim step before selling out the Lots having individual applications for residential homes single family homes and what the finished grading will be for each individual so I think there will be a lot of attention paid to the grading of the site it's just not part of the actual subdivision relief that has got right so all that is true um I think the one safeguard that we always look for is that the neighboring properties aren't adversely affected and I think that's the concern that was just brought forward I don't know if it's a hard I don't think it's a big hardship for the burrow to do something along that uh that property line to make sure that water will I want the property onto their would that be done a demolition plot it could be but the question if I could ask is does water come across the property line now when it rains real hard is water coming across you notice of all I mean is it run off from the other property I don't know I mean I'm a homeowner yeah Ian you know sometimes you know water just comes rhing off a piece of property on somebody else's it does happen often more we all like to say so I'm glad that's not happening but I mean you know maybe the Brower could consider something along that property line to help protect the neighbor and exp as part of the demolition plan but here's the problem the demolition plan may not happen for six months right what happens you know before that every step of the way there's another layer of oversight mhm tightening up PL prent this is not a waiver in general this is just a waer at this time we're not even deal but as a as a property owner understand I I think knowing that the board was actually advocating for us and not just saying we can disregard that but at this point in time and it's not just my property because there are three other properties that touch so it's not just mine there are three other households that would be impacted as well so my concern is that you do what you can to to not put us at risk the T the T and and then it it means that so for four different applications potentially we have to come and advocate for ourselves four times whereas I feel like you're putting us at risk potentially and take steps to make sure that so I'm just providing you with information when you say four applications Nobody Knows the future but it's unlikely there'll be four applications come here it's likely no no guarantee but likely they'll build based on the Ste restriction you know conforming structures of the property so they wouldn't be coming back so then how do we know then that the grading will be addressed if they never come back here when do we as as an it's done internally through the construction Department in town yeah and and the bur engineering can address that right there there is a review process for any homeowner that wants to build a new house on on a piece of property uh where they have to submit a plan that shows the the building shows the grading shows utilities shows the driveway all the improvements and it's reviewed by the construction department and the engineer uh to make sure that there are no negative impacts to neighboring properties specific specifically when we talking about gr and in in this this case is no difference uh Thomas J Co Third Avenue um I just tell the truth the whole truth about theu yes I do thank you I just like to say that uh section 40 col 55 d-38 contents of an ordinance item seven is protection and conservation of soil from erosion wind or water or excavation and Grading so that's why our Ence has the provision that you're asking for the waiver from now I'd like to read 40 p 55 I don't think that's true I don't agree with that okay because this application does not involve any improvements this application only involves the subdivision of of the property it involves the it it proposes the demolition of okay uh I'll finish up here uh 40 colon 55 d-51 it B States if the literal enforcement of one or more provisions of an ordinance is impracticable or will exact undue hardship because of peculiar conditions pertaining to the land in question neither of those apply this is there's no undue hardship there's no reason you should meet the requirement of your own ordinance now the other thing I like to say is that whoin this is for the waiver you have toif it's not it's a checklist La it's not a designed yeah this this doesn't just apply to Designed lab it states exception in application of subdivisions or site plan regulations 40 55 d-51 that's the heading and that's what it states you don't meet the requirement to Grant the the wait so again we're looking to protect the residents I have no problem with this sketch plat except for the gray scale should have been included so I'd like to make a proposal that the gray scale gets included item six gets removed you come back for preliminary in December and then bifurcate the application to a final approval once the building is demolished and graded to the grading plan which we will submit into set that's the way the process should work in my own in your opinion is that uh no I'm not just asking I want to film your time your time's right well the other person had far more than 5 minutes excuse meish up sure um I don't believe this has been presented properly uh we can't establish what variances are required of the property which may remain or may not remain we're not sure but the variances should be included in the subdivision and they should be included in grce scale this is an incomplete application uh I don't believe you qualify for the waiver and I don't believe that this this map is prepared properly and I would again request that you come back next month with a proper application thank you very much chairman so any other questions from have to do this 3 3 you s all she want um I just want to do that yeah um I just want be I live next to Bridget who um brought her concerns about the grading and the lack of grading plan and the fact that I haven't lived there as long as Bridget my next door neighbor but we have lived there in the last six years and I have never ever ever had water or Varon in my basement um and I have renovated my basement in the last year and I lived in a house in County where some renovation some building happened up on the other side of the woods and the next thing you know I had water and there sppy backyard and I had water in my basement and my concern is the same as Bridget's and DJ is are you doing this backwards are you just why aren't you going as let's de demolish it right gr it come out with that plan and then do the subdivision and why would we rush it through to say we'll worry about that later I know you say well a builder will come in Builders just want to make money and sell they're not going to be concerned about the impact they do to their next door neighbor the house that's been sitting there they don't care they're going to be gone it's us that live around that property that are all going to be impacted that of two years from now I have it with water in my basement are any of you going to care when I can say in six years I've never had any water in my basement and that is a big concern of ours can I can I just make sure the board understands something um the applications for a subdivision and it it sounds like there is a big concern about the grading of the property once the building is demolished that's the the demolition of of the church is a condition of the approval uh recommended by your your board engineer and that itself will have its own grading plan then there will be another grading plan that has to go through a review process by like we said the construction Department the engineer for each individual lot that will those will be different graded plans based on the construction of a new single family house um I I think what what's getting confused is that the uh concern of the grading in the interim between what where we have have the site now and uh when we when the building is when the church is demolished uh that grading is temporary and stabilization of of the property will will have to happen uh getting vegetation to grow whatever uh that'll that is part of the Burrow's job project uh to to get that that site graded proper so that it does not negatively impact the Neighbors in the internal before a developer comes comes along um but they're they're two separate things just a question for you maybe to clarify so um when you know the burrow goes for a demolition permit and they have to provide a grading plan is an engineer reviewing that grading plan to make sure there won't be adverse impacts on the neighbors yes so it whether it's it's uh myself that is preparing the uh grading plan for the demolition or if it's a different engineer and then I'm reviewing it uh it it there is a review process in place for both the demolition of of the church and for the construction of new homes and it doesn't affect where the property lines are going to be located that is correct I think you you're explaining correctly as far Asing What's happen right now it's just the lines right once the lines get in place then this demolition cance but not demolition plans demolition grading plans this afterwards rule of debr mitigation of all issues s are there any provisions in um you know the bur's ordinance that uh when you submit the grading plan whoever submits the grading plan they have to show there's no run off onto neighboring properties is that I I don't know if there's a specific ordinance that says says that but that is part of any review uh that the the the grading of property is not negatively impacting other properties so that's something that whoever is reviewing the demolition grading plan would specifically be looking at yes and are you as the burrow engineer involved in that process I I likely will be yes and you've heard the the concerns of of the neighbors and the neighborhood as to the post demolition condition of that site could be yes and you will do everything that you can in your review to make sure that the neighboring properties will not be negatively impacted at that yes any more questions comments please I'm sorry again I my my question is um after the demolition you had the subdivision now you have the demolition there's going to be remediation of the soil or of something because there's going to be a gigantic hole there huge hole you know that I know that the grading is a wave as it is portions on Madison are below way below the grading of the church property um with soil being brought in how long are is there for contraction of the soil to settle down before you make your judgment if there's going to be any runoff because there is a drainage pipe now from the back of the church that takes off the um from the leader goes through the street goes through the back and comes out on Madison you know that right okay so you know that there's a problem there already because that's already in place and during the rainstorm it gets mushy over there so I'm just wondering when they bring extra soil in because they're going to have to because no one's going to have a basement that's 20 ft deep because I'm pretty sure that that gym area is pretty deep I'm not sure how deep it is but it's very deep so soil is going to have to be brought in so is there amount of time that you wait for the compaction of that soil let me let me just do you know what I'm saying I don't get head no I I understand your question okay and I think you also understand that you are getting a little bit of I know but we're all concerned of course so that question while I think it's important it's not entirely relevant to this application which doesn't mean it's not going to be considered in the future it should be but what you're describing is I think and tell me if you agree that would be part of a scope of work for a Dem vendor that the burrow would have to prepare specifications go out to bid find the lowest responsible bidder and at that time those kind of practical engineering concerns would be addressed is that fair yes okay okay so and and tonight is it's not the last step it's really kind of the first step and so I would recommend staying in touch the I will be but but because these are these are all valid concerns yes it that will be addressed in the future well I'm concerned too because actually I think item number six I think that's a mistake so who actually went over this and nobody else it out so I don't I don't agree I don't think it's a mistake what it is is you don't think it was a mistake no because it's under the impression everything well that may be that may be the case in the future what this plan shows is what is needed for the burrow as the applicant to meet the standard I five times but that's the that's the answer I just want to put on record that I said all this because we're all going to be watching okay and that's and that's fair it's your neighborhood please I know I live there please do it's it's your right any other questions comments see them close anything in summation or just just very briefly um uh we did submit a fully conforming as right application no requests for variances no request for waivers of design standards I know the review letter um uses the word waiver that is lowercase w waiver I think you could also insert the word exception I think you could say exemption um it's not a waiver as the L law uses that term of art that would require the belief that an applicant [Music] receive right so um you know I think members of the public um residents in the neighborhood neighbors of this property have identified you know valid concerns about how this property will change once the stat changes but I think we've you know very robustly described the um processes in the future the safeguards that are in place and the different steps that the burrow as applicant will have to go through from this first step in the subdivision approval through creating Lots the demolition of improvements and eventually the the sale of four lots for four family homes thank you thank you other question comments from I mean I think we can just acknowledge that this is like a highly sensitive topic in town for many people for many different reasons um it's been a very long project I think we can all probably people that are even in close proximity propertywise emotionally they have their own personal opinions about this property so you know I think we're all here ing the concerns and you know we the board came here tonight specifically to talk about literal survey lines and understanding that this is the very very first step of some progress that's happening with this property so you know moving forward please do engage because these are all all I think put this very well but valid concerns and things that the town should be respectful of for the community and there are steps place for checks for us to recognize those things so yes let's move together as a community through this and you know I hope that this all works out for everybody for all the reasons that we want this property to look differently in the future is the first step of men and as said before as a resident as a neighbor to this propert You' got to stay engaged plans are available to look at once every goes forward demolition probably if not asked to the properties themselves sub to get developer look at them understand them and your concerns up to construction Department do not if you don't get stay involved we once this is done tonight from us this is the last time we'll probably see this application because unless somebody comes to us ask something a bearance ask for bearance on these coning LS which very difficult get and builders in town have shown they can conform to the Lots when they have given the opportunity of a large lot so go forward make a motion to approve sub plot lines with the wavers with the understanding of the wavers the three wavers that they are not carried through the whole project they're just for this particular part of the am I correct yes so going forward there are no waivers into this project going forward on this part right here because it's not to draw the lines figure out what's going to go there that removal of the church yes yes removal of the church and the uh deed restrictions correct and that and all other conditions specified in the November 6 riew letter from your board on lot all four propos proposed to step but if it has to be conformed to our setac rules and everything else that right we are not here opposing to leave improvements that create a arant situation we can't prove the lot line that will give a varant so everything has to be clean yes I that are but recognize that if that existing building were to stay as is with nothing more than interior renovation whatever it could be a nonconforming existing noning bu that's true so that could happen it's not highly unlikely but it could happen so but they're saying the the subdivision will have no variances and that would create a that would create variances if they don't meet the setback requirements and because it's a new lot those are variances so if keeping the structure creates any type of variance it needs to go or they need to come back right but we're not intending to create any VAR no there's no new variant being created it's just it's just the lines on on the okay Mr moror yes I approve the Miss s oh yes M Hernandez yes M ber yes M yes Mr yes and chair May yes it's Time Project thank you thank [Music] you everybody have a nice Thanksgiving married I don't know I was yell have a good night everyone [Music]