##VIDEO ID:-4S1YGD6A5k## good all righty it is Tuesday November 26 at 400 p.m. and we will call the Park Board to order and we'll start with roll call Burns Sandy here schaer yes ship here Miller yes Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and move on to the approval of the agenda I'll make a motion to approve the agenda second motion and a second on the agenda any discussion on the agenda uh I think one note without Dave we can cover half the Fe schedule but not the banner oh the banner program yeah very good we'll probably want to split part of that out but you can still do the rest of otherwise looks good all right Motion in a second with a little discussion all in favor say I I all oppose same sign we have an agenda moving on to the consent calendar and notice of the public all matters listed are considered routine by the board and will be enacted by one motion there will be no separate discussion of these items unless good cause is shown prior to the time the board votes on the motion to be adopted by roll call I'll make a motion to approve the consent calendar consisting of the minutes the dispersements and the financial reports second Motion in a second any discussion on the consent calendar Jesse please call the rooll Sandy yes Schaefer yes ship yes Miller yes we have the consent calendar approved moving on to unfinished business the approval of the JC's Park lighting layout um Jesse present thank you Mr chair so this is a carryover from the last meeting um Park Board requested some more information on funding of the two options so I included the um restatement of the two options and our Our rough approx imate estimate of the two options with the lighting um we did clarify with uh some of our finance group and uh BPU staff um there two options you could request Capital funds from the long-term maintenance fund from the city council and pay for it lump sum uh the other option would be to amize the cost of the installation into the monthly pilling billing for the park over the next 25 years um kind of similar to some of our other uh replacement projects uh so staff is actually uh recommending that we uh run that option with amerzing the cost of the um whichever option we we elect um over the next 25 years uh using option two per per the comments that were received at the October 22nd parkboard meeting and can answer questions very good thank you Jesse any questions for Jesse at all comments or concerns Paul I had one question um the pleasure rink is there plans for night use on that and will those two lights next to the rink provide adequate lighting um if there is after dark obviously after dark hours so they're placed in a in a manner that it should cast enough light throughout um where the the question might be is on the southern end of that rink um that Far Eastern might be a little bit less lit than maybe the Western portion but it should get um pretty well lit if you think those lights are at least what we were pricing is the the typical typical the new residential standard acorn light um and and those standard are placed at the corner of an intersection and lighted a full intersection so you can kind of get an idea of scale of how much light is cast through those so it should get through a pretty good sizable area it just may not be super bright on the end of that if you wanted to get a lot more brightness you'd want to install another light on the east side of that uh rink but depends on how much light you're looking for the other option you could do some supplemental lighting like we have over at Gregory where you you throw some like Cafe string lighting up you'd have to run an extension cord or something to power it but good I have a question um I know I missed last meeting I did look at the notes but why weren't the lights included in the original budget so we just didn't include that part of the project that as part of this project uh we were more focused on the grading portion of that um it wasn't really something that we identified with the scope of wood Seth and true I'm still confused about how we Bill BPU or BPU bills us for services so like I know with the splash pad right we talked about they charge us for water and then we receive a credit is that the same for our like electricity yes sir so we're actually not paying for them because they would credit it all back to us eventually we we do all pay for it through our rates um through the okay uh essentially we we do receive the credit back at payment and Luma taxes but um okay every everybody does pay for these the cost of the lights through rates they don't they come don't come to us for free yes okay thank you Mike I just would like to comment on the sports are you know on the soccer field so against the parking lot and the soccer field um I would recommend that we just look at the two lights between the the pleasure rink and the soccer field because I think if we're looking at two hours window of playtime from 8 to 10: so two hours of extended play when we have lights on that soccer field I think we're always going going to have enough lighting for the pleasure rink but now for the soccer field we may want to look at professional sports lighting and something a little bit more to really cast the light on there between the the pleasure rink and the soccer you know that's going to be get some good lighting and then if we really have a lot of programming we could then get the other Lighting on the other side um but that's just uh my personal preference regarding soccer play cuz you really need to get it lit a a little bit more than just U um you know a street light thank you Mike further questions comments or concerns for Jesse or Mike I think I'm a little bit more um inclined to not ask the council um for uh usage of the long-term maintenance fund and to am amateurz the costs um into Mike's Point yeah if we we have a lot more activity out there maybe we can pursue um f lighting options um cuz again I mean the usage of this park should not stretch deep into the the late hours but I suppose and when we're looking into it yeah in the winter hours it is going to be dark after 5:30 but the usage of it will likely be on the rink because that's where the ice is and that's where the action is going to be so um I am more of a proponent of just having the lights between the field and the pleasure rink um for cost saving measures again we will be reimbursed um in a sense um for for these lights um but that would be the preference uh my preference for now so I would take um on the um for the funding purposes I would amize the costs and then for the lighting options I would do option one Andrew I think I still like option two just for having some lighting in the parking lot because we've had I'll say no good Nicks there doing stuff where they think it's kind of out of sight out of mind having it lit I think it just makes it a little more visible if right BPD comes to lock up the warming house they can see what's going on in the whole parking lot sure yeah certainly not lighting the soccer right I think Mike's got oh Mike yes and to your point uh Andrew we could always upgrade those lights if we wanted to see programming extend you know versus just a you know acorn light a very generic street light we could upgrade that so good point good option and we could always when we see programming going we could always upgrade those we did have a just FYI we met with BPU out there today and they gave us some you know uh input and then they're G they're going to give us a formal you know price on that too so just FYI very any other questions comments or concerns leanings on the options um well just again because I feel like I wasn't here for the whole thing but so if we just do two lights or we do four whatever but if we're planning to like think about soccer lighting like Mike saying that's not really in our budget at this point so like is that something we'll have to change or I mean like I feel like this should have been part of the like original planning cuz it kind of is a big deal um so like have our Park lit so that's where I'm like if we only have two lights and it's you know 4:30 I guess no one's out on the soccer field but like still people might be there I don't know I feel like we need four or more but if we don't have the money for that that's where I'm struggling to and I think for funding purposes yeah I mean we're we're going to amateurz I think I think we're all in kind of discussion if we're going to pay for it it's not going to be out of long-term maintenance for this because I mean it was part of the project I think we just kind of overlooked that Mike I think I also met with Chief Davis on another topic you know for the regarding the cameras and I think to everyone's point I think he would appreciate some lighting over in the parking lot too very good yes car I think when we had planned this it was more daytime summer use is the main goal right it's like so wet in the summer for this that it was not usable true and so the lighting would just be Security in this time of year more than like the why is not going to be out there yeah you know 6:30 in November playing soccer and if they are like we'll look at that you cross that brid love that winter soccer sounds good yeah okay Minnesota so yeah to you guys' points on vandalism and kind of Park security um I certainly could easily lean toward option to um that's certainly not an issue for me as well it's kind of uh I think you know JD had a lot of contentious points about this the last time too and the funding of the lighting and I think if over 25 years we're going to just get this back um I don't think it's so much of an issue um to request all four so trying to be more conservative is a little bit more out the window if we don't we're just going to get the money back over 25 years so but just like people safety again and you want them to be comfortable I know Buffalo Hills there's like no lights over there and I don't even know what happens it's my neighborhood I'm like I don't want to go back there when it's dark out cuz it's like what is happening in that warm or in that yeah t back there and that's to your point yeah if you roll in on this park I mean you're going to have those two Street lamps over the rink but at pulling into JC's Park it's going to be kind of pitch black as you enter in the winter in the winter hours so yeah two guys is pointy I think I think having the lights up front will be will be really point important so Andrew i' would move to select option two and amortise the cost over 25 years second Motion in the second further discussion on the motion all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign we have a lighting thing um we'll move on to unfinished business B the uh approval of the 2025 Park fee with the uh idea that part of the banner program will not be um discussed this evening thank you Mr chair um so we included the um proposed fee schedule just as it was in the last meeting uh so we didn't make any changes to that uh I did include the uh the two points that were uh of main discussion with the banner program as well as the alternative potential alternative uh fee for Athletic Field rental for tournaments uh if they do self-maintenance so I kind of gave a a breakdown of how we came up with the $75 per hour per field um so we gave a recommendation uh one item that uh Mike and I had had a discussion is um from a staff perspective we would like to uh recommend that it to going that route uh we would recommend that having the flexibility to negotiate a lower rate rather than having a set rate this gives us some flexibility depending on what the abilities of that group would be um we could depend some are going to be a little bit more more better suited than others um that might give us a little bit better flexibility in that realm um and we do have that a little bit of that verbiage elsewhere in the in the fee schedule that we could enter into a separate agreement we could have some of that verbiage uh elsewhere is that we could enter into a separate agreement uh for self-maintenance on those fields at a lower rate uh based on an agreement with staff um so if that's something that the park board wanted to do is uh allow that um that is something um but I wanted to make sure I I pointed out the breakdown of uh the um the rates there um and then I just wanted to note the banner program uh this is the first year that I'm including the banner program in the feed schedule it doesn't need to be uh in my mind I thought anything that people are paying fees for it's nice to have it on the Fe schedule so that one the park board sees it and is approving of all this stuff it doesn't have to be this would be the first year that I've even included in it uh so if you want to pull this out and discuss the rest of the the fee schedule and then at a future time the the banner program can have a different discussion that that's more than uh easy for us to do very good thank you Jesse uh questions comments or concerns on the feed schedule as it sits Andrew um I like pulling the banner program because then we could approve the fee schedule today yes and then really like just as long as we put somewhere on there like we'll negotiate separate maintenance agreements for rentals um so that if somebody's looking at brainer for a tournament and just stumbles on our website they can say oh yeah we'll get in contact see if that'll work for us so um yeah I like that verbiage over a set rate and then just pull in the banner program so we can payments out today yeah and I'm a big fan of that as well because again I know the Mayors work relatively hard on uh figuring out a solution to that that might actually be um advantageous so um I yeah i' like to pull the planner program I do like the flexibility um for uh for those outside agencies coming in if they want to run a bigger event something like that I want to have flexibility and want to be able to promote that um that sort of uh flexibility uh through our uh amenities so um I'm totally in agreement with Andrew uh I want to mention the benches sorry I I didn't know that was still an option for people I thought with like our Park all our plans we were making maybe we have too many benches or can um because that makes it seem like we can just put a bench anywhere I mean you know is that an option still I thought we had talked about changing that when we did all those plans yeah and I think I think we had conversations about the benches specifically like you know what what is the cost of that because you know at some point we have to replace them um so um yeah not that I wasn't sure if it was yeah not right not that you're against letting people I want to have people remember their ones by bench but like think I thought we had talked about kind of because then once we lay the slab then it's like we have a slab and no bench I mean I think it was a conversation about maybe making sure that we're getting this people people's information and that if it the time comes for maintenance on that bench it's destroyed or something like that that the city isn't being held responsible for replacing said bench um that the maintenance or removal I mean we'll remove it when the time comes but you know we're we're reaching out to again um you know the community groups and people who have paid money for these benches to do the maintenance and replacement Paul is there I thought there was a policy in place regarding the bench placements and things and does it cover the future removal of that once I don't believe that the policy specifically says how long a bench is to be in place mostly because it probably could Depend and it has to be approved by City staff correct it it does say try not to put it out on an island that it should be nearby a walkway where possible um I suppose it's really tough to say like a life cycle of how long because you get one that's in full sun versus one that's in shade that can change the how long one's going to last quite drastically so it's tough to say that you know every one's guaranteed for 10 years or something like that so that would be a little bit difficult for us to have um but to your point um you know whether or not that that would be your responsibility to replace that something that we can include in the policy is um that becomes your I I think just at least giving folks an option because again we're talking about Community groups and the JC's and those Pavilions and things like that like if they want to go in instead of having us tear it down they want to raise funds or put their own time into to fixing these fixtures not an issue right I mean I understand you're paying for a bench you know to have at whatever cost is quoted you know but we we just don't want the city to have to maintain these and I think that was kind of part of that conversation so we just yeah give the option right we can either remove it it's past its life cycle or you know if you want to reup you know uh here's the conversation and just make sure that we set expectations for folks that are that are purchasing these benches that when the time comes it's going to be on you to to replace it or you know uh rehab it could I ask for some quick clarification uh does the parkboard want to include any kind of a minimum I'll say a guarantee um the reason why I asked that question is if I install it today and a week from now somebody walks and throws their boot through it maybe a strong boot I guess but if if for some reason they vandalize it spray paint all over it and we're not to remove the spray pain or in some way vandalize it to the point where it's not easily rep it's it's a complete replacement after a month is that still their their responsibility so I that's why I want to ask for that clarification is that something that the parkboard wants to include is a minimum time frame or is it as it is your responsibility from day one I do I mean we don't have typically have a problem our fixture I mean are we covered if ISM hits that at all I mean in any way shape or form like if somebody goes down breaks it I mean weather breaks it are are we is our bench covered um under some form of insurance or reimbursement if it gets destroyed because it's in our facilities it probably would be covered under a property in in the open but it wouldn't uh hit our deductible okay our deductible is 5,000 uh these are 1,500 per fair enough um yeah cuz I know I mean even in Road the slab um on that one park near the river is graffiti to all get out um well not recently but you know has in the past and things like that so yeah to your point I mean we could see that based on placement so there are some more high-risk uh benches um I guess yeah and throw that out to you guys for comments I mean the biggest thing I the reason I brought it up is because now we require that slab right and then it's like you know so we just it's good so we have a policy in place that so we they have to talk to us obviously we install it so we have to approve where they want to place it and usually I don't know if that comes to us or not I mean trust staff to probably you know pick it but like I just it's on there so I just wanted to bring that up I don't know if we need to add a year I don't want to throw it out there if we keep talking about graffia on benches all of a sudden right yeah let me I'll just jinx it yeah so I don't know if we have to get we need to get that like in the weeds with like after 10 days it's you know but I just don't want a bunch of like random slabs if something does happen that's why I just want to be aware of how many benches we're placing I guess that's my biggest thing is so we're smart about it which we would be so that was all I was I mean I think we could give a grace period for five years I mean these benches they're all synthetic materials they're pretty pretty durable I mean to Jesse's point if someone goes and runs into it the day after it's put in and I don't think the expectation would be that the city would not replace it right I mean they've made an investment into a park to add a amenity that everyone's going to benefit from I think public purpose is there and we can come to the table with some sort of guarantee for those situations that arise yeah I I think five years is very serviceable I mean that's yes Mike just what we used to have is it was a 30 I forget the exact years but on the bench we then contacted that family and said hey your bench is you know it served its lifetime do you want to continue or do you want to just we can give you the remnants of it and then you may can do whatever you would like with it so we had that and then for the trees for the life of that tree then we would say hey this trees has a lot of disease we got to cut it down do you want your plaque back do you want to redo another plaque at another tree and we just had that so I can review the policy on that and I uh C it to your point we had X number of benches after we met that then was like well this year we only have so many benches that we're doing and then after that you have to do a tree you know we got a lot of trees right and uh so we would do that approach with it and again the life cycle of the bench vandalism we just took care of it's pretty minimal we have a lot of those other those board materials at at the at the shop and the guys could just sort of knock that out we get a little vandalism but again there's always anomalies out there but uh that's what I and I would I'm going to review that policy and I'll bring back something next time okay to regard regarding that and I think we could leave certainly on at least for this year's fee schedule we could still leave these on here I mean I don't think our bench inventory is egregious as it sits but yeah I mean you know and I don't know on an annual basis how many benches we're we're putting out there and how many slabs we're we're placing but yeah I think that's something you know for the future yeah we like to have a pretty pretty good policy that again public purpose side of things yeah we it helps you know so um yeah maybe a fiveyear guarantee at least for this fee schedule like if anyone orders one this year we're going to guarantee it for five years and then we'll we can have a conversation about it later but um yeah let's let's try to um start taking that approach to benches and trees that sounds wonderful and just have a general idea because we do we do know how many benches are in our system um yes so um it's out there somewhere but uh yeah we can uh we can maybe come to that cap at some point in our lifetime um and make a decision on um you know we've reached that point but yeah I think I think that's that's totally fine so right now removing the banner program from the fee schedule um taking an approach to the benches and I guess in uh in turn the the trees if we uh we do reach an inventory of that level um tournament uh schedule being a little bit more flexible according to staff and um private conversations about uh um and negotiating um for uh for bigger events and other agents so any other questions comments or concerns on the fee schedule I can attempt a motion on that if you want to attempt a motion that sounds wonderful The Limited just to the fee schedule yeah very good um i' move to remove the field Banner program from the draft fee schedule then add a line item to our field rental rentals that uh reduced rates for self-maintenance available request second very good motion and a second any other discussion on the motion for the fee schedule hearing none all in favor say I I all oppose same sign we have a spee schedule uh new business we're going to approve the change order of the number three parks arpa project Jesse thank you Mr chair uh so staff is recommending approval of a change order three for the arpa projects uh that is attached we're essentially completed with the projects we're at this point really waiting for the grass to grow which will be in Spring um but a lot of this was kind of a lot of the items that we needed to get the project constructed part of the plan uh so some of this were items that weren't included in the plans um like the concrete steps uh that were shown in the plans that weren't there wasn't an item for um some of the top soil and excavation um there were some overages there so we wanted to just kind of wrap all of that up into this change order uh what we also included in this change order was some of the items that we removed from the scope uh because we knew we were going to have some of these quantity overruns and some of these additional items uh us as staff were we're trying to be a little proactive to try and make sure that we're doing our best to stay within the budget uh we removed a few items we talked a little bit about the handrail on the steps to the beach um that was an item that we can have fabricated and done with our our maintenance inhouse um the handicap signs uh that's something that we can do with our our maintenance staff as well um and then it got pretty late in the season uh for the paint in the parking lot um it that was also another thing that we said you know we we do painting on our own anyways with our maintenance staff we can remove that part of the scope any any way it was so late in the season at this point anyway the quality would have been questionable anyways so we move we moved a handful of things which gave us a a handful of different cost savings so overall that all when you take all those the different things that we had at uh overuns and ads but taking away some of the subtractions and stuff uh a little over 21,000 uh over on in the change order uh which revises the contract um to be about 478 almost 479,000 um if you review the final measured quantities again we we're not quite finished up um but we're expecting the the final amount to be about 475 so getting some of those cost savings we would be a little bit under the revised contract not the original bid award but the revised contract so you include these change orders and stuff like that um so a little bit under um but again that's trying to balance a lot of these different things and uh we'll have a little bit of a discussion on the next item too of how we try to balance all of the different things together between all the different contracts that we had but also with the construction but uh staff ultimately is uh recommending approval of the change order 3 as presented very good thank you Jesse questions on the change order comments on the change order motion on the change order motion to approve change order three as presented second motion and a second any discussion on the motion hearing none all in favor say I I all oppose same sign the change order is approved moving on to the approval of the WSB Amendment request for the parks ARA project Jesse I'll be recusing myself with this item recusal from Paul Sandy very good thank you Mr chair so we are requesting approval of the amendment request from WSB uh so they were required to do some additional staking and observation time um just to properly get the project uh constructed to what we were expecting um from the beginning we were trying to be as measured as we could understanding it was going to be a very tight budget um so we were trying to be about as measured as we could about how much time WSB had to expend hours out on the project to inspect do staking um CU every obviously every hour is a certain amount of dollars so we're trying to be as measured as we can but also make sure that there are an appropriate amount of time that we get the project constructed to the appropriate quality that we are expecting um so trying to do a little bit of a balance there now understand that you know when they first bid the project they have an assumption of how much time um based on what we're all thinking um that they're going to have to spend out there we based on lot of the discussions between our staff so we were in very close contact with both the contractor and WSB through those discussions uh we felt like a few more extra hours were needing to be spent out there to appropriately stake as well as observe some of the tasks especially out in the beach but uh kind of threw out all three different projects um so this isn't something that was unclear to staff we were in very close conversations throughout the whole project and we just wanted to make sure that um they spent the appropriate amount of hours needed to get everything constructed and observed uh we also don't want the contractor out there say winging it but kind of constructing it without good guidance from uh from either our staff or WSB staff either so uh with that the amendment is totaling 6480 which uh amends the total contract up to $227,200 start pulling this contract together with now that we have kind of final numbers for the Construction contract with the kanana street clearing with the WTH contract we started putting all them together and out of the $575,000 budget uh it looks like we're in a land if we approve the uh Amendment right at about 576,000 so that was that was actually a pretty good um result to me is that we came in that close uh as tight as we were and uh all the efforts that and all the unexpected stuff that came in through construction so I was actually pretty happy uh speaking with Finance the uh remaining 1,200 or so uh of the budget can be absorbed through some other Capital Savings elsewhere from this year uh so staff is recommending approval of the contract Amendment for WSB in the amount of uh 6,480 very good thank you Jesse questions on the amendment comments on the amendment so if we don't approve this we fly under no pretty darn close I mean we've you know been doing sitting up here two years we're pretty pretty darn close to Target so um yeah we are looking for a motion on this amendment Andrew I think I just have a comment and I'm not terribly familiar with construction so uh this is very naive perspective I think uh but I feel like there's a little bit of a trend now and maybe this is just how construction Works Jesse that like we get to the end of a project and it's like oh they spent a lot more time on site than we thought and we had the same thing with ly and P white and it's kind of boiled down to the same thing both times that oh the the contractor didn't work like we expected right for l p white it was they did way more pores than we thought and here it was they needed more staking and they weren't doing as much field fitting as they were expected to is that just how this goes I feel like we're hearing kind of the same story over and over from WSB and is that kind of so it it's a lot like when you have a plumber come out and work um they give you an estimate ultimately they're going to bill you for the hours they spend out in your house doing the work and that's really what we're getting build up from WSB is they're they're billing us for the amount of hours they're spending on the work um when when they give us a proposal at the beginning of the project they're making a lot of assumptions is they're assuming that they're going to have to work for so many days so many hours a day you know sometimes it's do we need to be out there full-time do they need to be out there part-time uh so they're making a lot of assumptions some of them are correct and some of them aren't and it really depends on the contractor too it could vary uh to your point about tests if you're assuming that they're going to do you know x amount of yards per day and that's going to equal this many tests well if they progress just a little bit less each day that means x amount more days of pores which means x amount more tests so just little things like that can change a lot of those assumptions and that all of a sudden increases a lot of the time that um a WP or any Consulting engineer would have to spend out on the contract so really what we're trying to do is compensate them for the hours that they spent on the contract now to your point of coming you know after the fact here it's a lot like some of the the change order three um we could have essentially pulled them off the project and said don't spend any more hours on the project but that probably wouldn't have been the most responsible thing is to sell tell you know desan tell hey stop I we don't have any more hours for WSB right now um we don't want you to do any work until we get an amendment approved with with our Park Board we want to keep the progress moving especially as we were getting really close to the winter season and the end of construction um so that's why we wanted to continue to work with them uh our job as staff is obviously to make sure that we we're being responsible and they're being responsible with that the assumptions you know were they appropriate should we have seen this coming um are the hours that they're spending out there appropriate uh or are they just kind of I want to say sitting on a shovel but you know are are the hour is Justified and that's our job um and like I mentioned in here I we were in a lot of really close conversations with both the contractor and WSB especially on this one knowing how close we were on the budget um we did not want to expend as many hours as possible or at least maybe a better word way put that is try and limit as many hours as possible for WSB to be on the project so we've had we even had conversations with Dantel is do you really need you know X Stak this to this extent you know having those conversations with the contractor to try and limit the amount of expense as much as possible so that was a lot of the effort that we had to spend out there probably more than uh I I would have really had a lot of time for this construction season but um knowing how close we were going to be on the budget we wanted to make sure that we did our our due diligence to try and limit that as much as possible but uh so to your point that it's kind of part of the the construction process is we need to make sure that we have the construction observation folks there when they need to be there but not unnecessarily or wastefully and that's our job as the contract owner is to make sure we're following up with that uh and making sure that we're following with W WSB of when they're out there when when it's it appropriate um but that's the other part of it is sometimes it is after the fact because we don't want to stop the construction process either cuz we could have sure same thing with like change order 3 we could have told dentel to absolutely hold everything until we get all of this stuff wrapped up but then we would have been stuck here and now everything's kind of Frozen and we wouldn't have been able to progress with the project until spring so some of that is a little bit of a balance of what do we need to really hold up on versus can we approve this and keep the progress moving and then talk talk with our board and I think we've been tried to be pretty transparent with the Park Board of knowing that there was going to be some overruns and I think we discussed that at the last meeting as well as prep that some of this was going to come out through a change order in the future of some of the overruns and some of this um some of that discussion as well um knowing that we didn't have the exact numbers but we were going to be very very close on the budget lot of lot of explanation I apologize but trying to explain a lot of what we go through with construction Mike just to add to that uh most Architects Engineers won't they will absorb some fees because they know the local municipality is their bread and butter I don't I have never had in my experience in doing 100 a lot of different projects that an architect and engineer firms typically what they look at those numbers before they submit them to the local agency is this Justified is it backed up by you know documents of yes this contractor was doing ab and C because they don't they two don't like change orders they have to pay their individuals but I have never seen well I I'll take that back I we had one company that did do some wrongdoing um but that is so far in between and I haven't Dove to this project but know that I I will be looking at more projects but I haven't seen uh an agency abuse the change order process and and I think WSB is a strong firm here in the local valy so I would recommend also yeah I just to tie into that I do know of more than a handful of examples WSB is one but other of other firms is uh looking at opportunities where you know do we need to include this with our billing or do they just absorb it and I've seen that multiple of times where they just they just absorb some of these costs I don't know if that was the case in here I'm sure that there's probably some in there um but it happens a lot you any other comments or questions for Jesse or Mike on the amendment move to approve the WSB Amendment for 6480 second that motion in a second further discussion on the motion hearing none all in favor say I I all oppose same sign we are amending um we'll move on to 7c the discussion on the JC's Park G raing plans Jesse thank you Mr chair so I'm not going to hopefully you had a chance to read that I don't know if I want to read the whole thing um so I kind of gave a little bit of background between um the pleasure Rank and that how that design came from wood Seth and how he made some adjustments before we presented it to the park board um and same thing how we uh determined the the grading of the the soccer field so uh what I'll really kind of focus my my comments here is the uh pleasure rank uh to make adjustments on there I kind of laid out some of the cost estimates and again some of this is basing the assumption that either the same contractor or another contractor would do it under the same pricing which is not a guarantee um but to raise the bottom up one foot uh you're looking at a potential cost of about 7200 uh to raise it up a foot and a half to have a depth of only a half a foot uh it's roughly about 14,000 or a little over that um which also you have to factor in you have to reced that after you filled it in uh so there's another cost to that so you have to remobilize a seating contractor plus the material and the and the work of that um so I included that in there um it was when staff saw that that design the two- foot design um I want to clarify so I I think it was maybe Mis misunderstood or maybe it wasn't as clear because maybe I had a different understanding as the park board um I don't think our our staff was intending to fill the rink 2 feet deep I think that's a big challenge for us anyways like physically um so I I included that photo in here and I think that was kind of what we had envisioned uh what would be done with our staff with that pleasure rink is that we would fill just a few inches much like we do at other rinks as we fill a few inches and then the remaining I'll say a foot and a half it becomes almost like a natural burm barrier seating say natural boards but it sloped but um that it was intended to be more kind of to keep the area with restrained I guess be a good word to put it I guess um it was never our intent to fill it 2 feet deep it would have been it would have taken probably of two months for staff to be able to fill it that deep in a lot of really good weather um but that and to the point of being able to drain it um by only having a few inches of uh ice in there obviously comes Springtime once everything thaws out it's going to take very little time for that to drain out once the ground thaws and the the groundwater level goes away compared to had it been 2T deep so I wanted to make sure I clarified that was not my understanding of the intent of having the the twoot pleasure rink of what WTH included with the design was that it would be filled 2 feet deep that that we were going to fill it just a little bit something similar to what's in the photo there um the other part in here is the soccer field and flipping the drainage to go towards the south of the drainage ditch I included here uh some of the the the work I did to accommodate what that would what that would entail um it's not complete because it doesn't include all the sloping that it has to go into it a little bit I've referenced a little bit of it um but you would have to raise that North End quite a bit to be able to flip the drainage to the South while also keeping the south high enough that it's not encroaching on the ditch and I know that was kind of one of the park board's key pieces was bringing that soccer field high enough that it's not that low in that that drainage way or at least close to it so um when I when I did my calculations I kind of kept that bottom corner up about a quar foot to do that and keep the same slope which was pretty minimal that 1.4% you have to raise that North End about 5 feet or a little bit more than 5T which creates a lot of other problems with sloping and um some other pieces so that's where I I included in here my recommendation is uh not to try and flip that going the other direction um but again this kind of the other thought was the natural Topography of the area does try and follow that be Southwest Southeast to Northwest topography um we're very confident that we're not going to have a drainage issue it sheet flows what doesn't infiltrate into the grass area will sheet flow across the trail much like your sidewalk in front of your home or anything else uh don't don't foresee there's being a big ponding issue or freezing issue um if there is any kind of standing I mean obviously our our maintenance is intending to keep the the trail and access clear if we have to do other maintenance with it that's what we'll do it's that's our job as maintenance but uh I don't foresee there being a standing water issue very good thank you Jesse uh questions on the discussion item yeah I think you know from the flipping the field standpoint just looking at you know looking at the site prior to this you can go on GIS and look at Contours and Jesse's right this is that site has historically flowed in the direction that it's currently flowing to go back and flip excuse me to go back and flip the site now would being that we already have improvements in place number one so we have a trail really close to the North End and the West side um you would need a substantial grade adjustment on that North End which your soccer field is going to be significantly higher than your Trail number one um the cost to do so is substantial you know as um engineers and looking at this site you're you're trying to fit improvements that match the same drainage conditions at what existed to minimize the amount of earth work you have to do and I think that's what WTH You know um overall goal was here is that you're trying to minimize the amount of earth work not trying to flip a sight from going in a opposite direction that it historically has gone um so I think you know leaving it as is and evaluating it and let's see you know over this first year um you know keep an eye on it over the winter months and um see if we have a trail problem like like Jesse kind of inferred I I would think that um normal snow practice and maintenance will keep that trail clear um I I kind of um inferred this earlier but and Jesse did too about the natural infiltrating soils that we have in brainer now the site was filled with um a lot of top soil but our top soil even in the brainer area is like black sand it's literally going to infiltrate um very quickly um and I don't suspect that even though the soccer field is graded in that direction the amount of rain that it would take to actually um have runoff from this site would be have to be pretty substantial and it's going to likely infiltrate before it even gets to a point that it's going to be crossing the trailer ENT it's all green space that's what our soils in this area do is they they take on water we're very blessed in that if we were down in the Metro um or somewhere in the southern part of the state this would probably be a lot bigger issue because their clay soils down there don't allow for any infiltration and so I like I've I've looked at this and relooked at it I honestly do not see any problems with the way it is right now um and like I said if there is problems we can um address those I think they I I I just don't foresee it honestly awesome because that that everything you said was like a different language gring and the piping and I was like thank goodness somebody else has got a handle on this yeah I mean and the think yeah and and on the point of the pleasure ring too I think yeah I mean to to see the vision I guess a little bit more as it being more of a defined footprint for the rink instead of us just kind of hosing off an area and letting it freeze I you know I I can see the thought behind the the two foot depth um Mike just to piggyback too on that pleasure rank in the summertime now when Mom and Dad are watching you know Johnny play soccer the other little one will be rolling down that hill on that pleasure rink so natural Topography is a huge play area and I think it might be a great design um you know again we're uh the maintenance staff they're on it and they are going to be made you know looking at this for the during the winter months what it's going to be like you know we're going to be next year we're going to be that pond is going to be active so what is it going to be like so we already already talked to Tony and he's going to be on that too so I think it might be a good blessing and I'm you know maybe this is going to be uh you know people are really going to like it in the sense that they can just sit down on the pleasure rink and just like plop on the on like a bench or on the side of the Hill it may be a good design and again staff-wise if it's not we can fix that other questions comments or concern on the discussion item for JC's Andrew I think um the only thing I'm a little skeptical of still is how close the grade is to the sidewalk like the very northeast corner of the pleasure rink but um certainly let's see it play out and if we want to add a more gradual slope there in the future but yeah I think let's see how it goes and um I do appreciate your input Paul on the soccer field because that makes way less sense to me so uh yeah I think glad you're on the board uh yeah uh good to me very good any further discussion on the park item Jesse I I just want to point out one thing that's not necessarily shown in the plan L can you go to the plan really quick um there is an existing walkway that it's not shown in the plan that goes from the existing warming house that's about halfway between the two walkways um so that would be a pretty good access into the pleasure rink um because it is to your point Andrew that it is pretty close to the walkway um they won't have to go far from that existing walk to get to the pleasure rink very good anything else to discuss all right we'll move on to the public forum time allocated for citizens to bring matters not on the agenda to the attention of the board uh we'll open the public forum at 452 look out to the audience and we will close the public forum at 452 and move on to staff reports thank you Mr chair so included a few different uh items sorry the uh Rec report's a little light U but it is the lighter part of the season um the pond hockey we're going to get the registration opened um we are planning to administer this in-house this year um so the registration is planned to get opened up here shortly uh warming house attendance we are advertising that job now um and uh hopefully we will get enough people to staff those out uh this year we're and we're looking at hiring at the uh the higher wage the higher seasonal wage uh that we discussed um during the budget process uh so that is what we're advertising for this year's uh warming house attendance question on uh pond hockey we had the why run that last year is that correct yes do we have any information on the success of the program through the Y last year uh we didn't have ponocky last year oh yeah that's right forgot it was a heat wave my bad so yeah I we had an equipment pick up and drop off I walked outside today and forgot that that summer existed so I think they actually did have a practice if I remember correctly but I think that's about as far as that got yeah I forgot about the absolute historic Heatwave okay very good yep sorry about that no problem um weather looks great in the forecast um so you know staff's already started working on flooding ranks it's hopefully the weather holds out and we're going to keep getting ice and in the next few weeks we'll actually have something skateable here shortly but we'll see how the things temperatures continue uh you never know what it'll do in a couple how quickly is Minnesota do you forget you were blessed with the warmest winteron record goodness um but keep your fingers crossed for a regular temperature year this year we can have skateable ice again yeah um rent. fund we had final rental numbers for the year uh did include what their report was for the uh Revenue share um not as high as we were kind of expecting I guess or projecting but um part of that will be continue to try and Market that I know uh the previous Rec specialist was trying to do a little bit of marketing with like the the photo contest uh didn't get a lot of traction But continuing to try and do things like things like the photo contest and any other ways to get more attention to that I think our beach improvements are going to be a big attraction to not only just that Park in general but that Beach area and having the kayak rental there will help uh be an amenity for that um so just wanted to make sure I put included that in the report uh you have the maintenance report we talked a little bit that the the folks are moving into flooding ranks now um projects report uh talked a lot about the arpa projects that essentially were done at this point um if you haven't been down to the beach you haven't seen the gigantic shade frames those things are huge uh so you understand why the concrete footings that got put in there are as big as they are those those frames are gigantic um obviously we're not going to put up the uh fabric shades during the winter obviously to protect them uh so we we took possession of those but um come springtime we'll get those put back up when when the conditions are are there and then at this point we're essentially waiting for all the the grass SE to take which will probably be next spring um we've spoke with our it group about helping revise our campground maps um so we're hopefully going to have the campground maps updated and ready to go for reservations uh for the 2025 Campground season uh and I believe we included that uh updated number in our Campground host agreement um so we should be um just about ready to go and I believe the uh Department of Health imp approved all the permits and stuff like that so we'll just have to get the updated uh permit for 2025 so we should be all set to go for the uh Campground as well as long as everything grows just fine so um and then the Pavilion I did get an update that uh the temperatur just got too cold for the painting so they're going to hold off until spring for The Pavilions um uh with that I don't think I had any anything else from a project standpoint unless you had anything else to add well we just installed those C the three locations on the cameras um did we brief on that I I briefed with uh Chief Davis to make sure that his staff was hey where do you guys look at it from the perspective of law enforcement where would you like the cameras to be pointed so I involved with him and uh Troy um with uh just a placement of those cameras so it's uh what was it kanana Lyman and then the bridge so those three parks are getting cameras and JC already got a camera by the chief police so that was nice that we got a Bonus one with there so it was good very good um well with that I guess we'll move on to board member reports we'll start who yes Andrew two questions yes the vandalism at JC's was somebody like doing donuts on the yeah oh okay yeah right after they seated love that and then they actually put up their cameras they moved the barricades and then they actually caught some individuals so it actually worked it was really good oh we got them amazing and gentlemen we got them um and then where is the process in hiring a replacement for Haley yes we did uh go through the we had a lot of applicants um a lot of individuals uh uh met the minimum qualifications but there was like almost 30 individuals in that group so Jesse um uh um Britney and I we we reviewed them all we had to narrow it down just because I mean that was just way too many we narrowed it down to eight and we made our selection and that individual is has accepted the position and they're doing their um two weeks notice with with that also we have our Park admin person starting December 26th or no 20 I forget what 23rd that month Mond day um just so that she can get started with that so yes we're moving forth with that so it's really exciting awesome thank you very good any other questions on the maintenance report now we will move on to board member reports we'll start with Paul um have we met since Halloween I don't think we have no right before yeah it was right before yeah well went up to North Brainard during Halloween uh the park was there was a lot of commotion going on in the park my two-year-old son loved it loved all the fog machines there was a extreme amount of fog um loud music and he really enjoyed that um my infant didn't so much but um lot of lot of ghosts and ghouls kind of traveling around North Brainard again so always uh we actually go what we like to trick or treat around Northtown because it's close to our house but we we'd like to go into North Briner just to see the sites and all the people walk around so great event um love having the north brainer the guy that puts all the speakers up and everything that he was here before us uh what a great thing that he does there right yeah hopefully somebody can help him out so he's not there for for two days setting that up next time around but yeah no that's that was the kind of same feedback that I had about that um I don't know speaking to the resident perspective but uh you know the the whole thing felt like a success so U very very unique experience that again I hope he continues to bring that forward so that that was awesome that's all I had though oh very good um yeah I'm really actually excited we got the cameras up underneath the bridge again um just the the highest traffic vandalism area we've got seemingly in the entire system um so um really excited to hear that um little bit of a lower conversation about uh pickle as we've uh as the winter months have have crept up on us so um I am still very much um interested in seeing uh one of those Gregory Park courts turned into pickle ball so continuing to work with community members um to see how we can we can put some money together to get that done um and you know again even talking with Mike on other options to have it be maybe more modular tennis and and pickle ball um looking at service options and things like that but working still closely with members of the community to get that that on JD uh also had brought forth some uh some uh information about it as well so kind of top of mine but moving into winter you know now it's really just about finding some money so um that is all I have Andrew um yeah huge shout out to Josh who put on that Halloween event in the park uh it was the best smelling fog event yeah it was it was very I don't know what it was but it kind of made my eyes burn a little bit though I don't know exactly what was in it but uh yeah that was a blast um hopefully kelly didn't mind too much because I think half the speakers are pointed at his house uh well when we visited Kelly's house he was sitting in his porch in a chair um having some sort of beverage and we're not sure what it was but I'm sure he was enjoying it uh yeah that's that's all I got for my report care um I just want us not to forget about the beach and the water and the weeds and all that jazz so we're talking pickle ball for the summer let's talk about the beach for the summer too because that I think we want to have like a big grand opening of our beach but not to be able to have people swimming in our beach not so great so I just don't want to lose sight of that and I I obviously know that it involves money as well so do we fundraiser for the beach and for pickle ball or like what do we I don't know what we do let's talk to the ski loons see if they want to right help us Revitalize our beach Mike yeah so would the board like to have a grand opening for I mean I love grand openings just because any chance for me My Philosophy is any chance for a celebration do it and the public is starving for that especially from a municipality perspective and I think that would be you know to your point maybe we look at some community members you know the loons maybe they could help out with some beach stuff we get a permit and so forth and and look at that but yeah so thank you for bringing that up because that would uh be it just is helpful for public information to get out whether it's a street whether it's a park you need to do public engagement at every level just so that they you know we we already have a lot of individuals looking at government as you know not so positive so anytime that we can I'm a big component of that so thank you yeah and to your point I mean that beach and that water has been yucky pretty much my entire life so um if we if we change that you know and we can flip the script cuz I think that is a very prominent understanding and belief of a lot of folks about that water um in that Beach area especially over the course of my adult life you know that beach just just not get that much usage so I I am with you 100% like I would really like to pursue the the cleanup and that sort of thing that that they discussed before we open that park because again yeah the sentiment has always spin that that water's nasty so we'd like to we'd like to turn the heads on that if we could sure I can't have a grand opening if they can't go swimming yeah that's true we all need to jump in the water and they can follow then if we're not jumping in no one else after you no really I mean no really no really and I had no idea until Troy presented and I guess I'm naive to think that no one swam over there so like why do we put all this money into this beach that no one can swim in so that's like we really feel like we really need to work on that yeah and I and I am 100% with you cuz yeah as soon as Trey brought it up I was like yeah you know I I haven't lived in that area since I was a really young lad so you know five or six but even at five or six my family didn't let me go into that water so you know it's kind of one of those things where you know uh the public view of that is probably pretty nasty again who's responsible for cleaning that up I don't really know but I mean if we we can try to do something about it um and again Outreach to even the loons I mean that's that's their Beach they operate there and then people come to see them there so what can they do what what can other groups do um and what can we do um to find a way to get that cleaned up would would be outstanding so I yeah I appreciate you bringing that up and lastly I just wanted to commend the board for Andrew shared your um all the amenities and the impr Improvement plan and that just the just the replacement cost of all of that that was a lot of work that you guys did on that and U just to be commended so thank you for that also I believe we'll look for a motion to adjourn so moved second Motion in a second all in favor say I I all oppose same sign we are adjourned by golly