##VIDEO ID:dLi6CQqf9Yo## uh Joe do you wanted to roll sure uh Mel not present sley not present to present Arie present trer present Williams present Jen present all right let's stand for the pledge I pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right approval of the agenda and the amendment I'll move to approve the agenda as presented do we have a second I'll second all right all in favor I I closed okay great and it's open Forum so it's time for members of the public to come forward and it's open Forum so if you'd like to come forward state your name and address at the podium anybody okay then we're closing open forum and approval of the minutes for September and November should we do those together or separately or anybody have any changes any okay right let's do them together then yeah I make a motion to accept the um approve the minutes from both the September 12th and the November 14th Park and Recreation committee minutes I'll second all in favor say I I I and opposed new business we're roaring Straight Ahead here and you want to take it Bill sure um we have we're lucky to have Eric Peterson tonight here to give us uh imp part his expertise on on uh pickle ball and he'll answer any of our questions when he's done Eric the flour shars do you want me anywhere right up at the podium there with the mic Podium yes all right uh I I came here not really knowing what you wanted I assume it's a little bit of a discovery process and uh Bill dick Burns uh dick has been kind of lay on set this up uh what he told me is that you're very forward focused uh you understand what's going on with pickle ball that uh is a wonderful asset for a community and I've been around pickle ball since uh well going on eight years now and I'm I'm kind of an example of a Gateway at least for older people that are coming into the sport I played tennis all my life and uh turned 65 I was playing out a private tennis court uh hit a slippery spot went up came down on my left shoulder and had uh traumatic damage and had to have a lot of surgery done went back uh to Rehab Therapy then I started working out and uh I walked into the health club and a guy looked at my racketball bag which I understand you've done Bill played racketball and uh he said do you play pickle ball and I go heck no that's for old people and he goes you are one and I go okay you're right and I stepped on the court and immediately I I loved the game but I was still focused on tennis I went back to tennis in the summer and uh halfway through the summer I could not lift my right arm over my my shoulder for serving no pain it just wouldn't go up so I tore all the tendons in my right shoulder went through that surgery and uh decided I'm not going to pick up a tennis racket again and then I got very heavily involved in in pickle ball and uh the reason why I'm here is I got into pickle ball and I kind of dove into it to try and figure out you know what are the qualities what makes it it's so unique why is it the fastest growing sport in the United States and uh I eventually after a couple years I became a pickleball Ambassador for USA pickleball with the goal uh being able to teach bring people into it as well as maybe have a little bit of clout with some of the area um cities to have pickle ball courts built or possibly tennis courts uh repurposed and uh having a tennis background I love tennis I this is not a one versus the other this is what best serves the community and uh tennis has gone backwards it's going backwards about 10% a year I don't know why there's no explanation that I have but the fact is there's a lot of unused tennis courts and that's not good for the community and uh so I became a USA pickle ball Ambassador I don't know how much you know about it uh you know it's it's very intriguing I I can give you just a little bit uh I don't want to bore you tonight you know my goal is to be done speaking before you're done listening that seems to work out best but uh it's it's it's a very intriguing sport it's onethird the size of a tennis court and it originated right around 1965 quite by accident uh a family they're gathering at their Lake home uh kids got bored parents said go out and play Bad mitt they went out and they had a somewhat of a formal bad mitt court on asphalt they couldn't find the balls they couldn't find the bad mitt rackets and the kids started bugging the parents again and they go okay uh let's go find some pingpong paddles let's find a Whiffle balls and they put the net up uh typical um bad Mitten height after a while they go let's bring it down and that's the original that's how where it came from and uh the old paddles were made on a you know they just cut them on a buzz saw or whatever and uh and that's how it started and so it's it's growing a lot but why is it growing a lot well onethird the court so it's not as hard on the body uh when I play tennis I would have uh roughly 10 12,000 steps in 2 and 1/2 hours I would be done and my wife would have to take a crane to get me up off the couch and do anything after playing tennis for a couple hours and uh I play pickle ball now I played five hours uh yesterday and uh ready raring to go uh the only reason why I left is I had to go home and have dinner with my wife but it's a totally different game I've had 14 different surgeries and my wife has had a hip replace two knees replace she's got permanent damage to one of her muscles because she waited too long for hip replacement and it's a one sport that she can play and she can play with gusto and uh she's a little older than I am don't tell her that don't tell I said that but the fact is is she is very athletic she was a fire teacher girls track coach girl swimming coach girls um gymnastics coach and this killed her the surgeries the bad muscle not being able to virtually do anything competitive you know what she's competitive on a pickle ball court because for whatever reason it seems to be a very Level Playing Field that allows you to maybe have more finesse in one area it's not uncommon for a couple of young kids to show up and look as lip on lip under the court to have our braces and uh an hour and a half later they go I can't believe it you beat the crap out of us and uh it is it is very unique so that's a little bit on that uh why why is it so crazy why is it growing quick learning curve if you play tennis the tennis ball and the tennis racket are not user friendly uh long extension of your arm the ball goes a lot faster a much bigger Court I do a lot of intro classes for individuals anywh from 10 years old up to 80y old and I can get 20 people together and in 15 20 minutes they are having a competitive game they are hooping and hollering and they just want to know where has this been game been I do teach them how to not hurt themselves because there's a lot of people that have not done much athletically in 40 or 30 years of their life and now they're engaged in pickleball and they have to relearn steps footwork and that type of thing but uh that comes with anything with activity longevity they're saying that people that play racket Sports were the pickleball tennis uh racketball their longevity is 5 to six to S years now they may end up with a more broken bones uh just simply because they're doing something they haven't been instructed on on the proper way but uh you know I would rather be a uh you know a live lion you know a live dog than a dead lion I you know I want to do something I want to I want to move on second thing is a crossover appeel to ages common for three generations to play so I spent a lot lot of time with Baxter helping get the two courts dedicated courts and then we repurposed the tennis court so it was Dual Purpose you can still play tennis on it but we've got pickle ball lines and uh you know in the movie Field of Dreams they say if you build it they will come well the fact is there's more demand than there is playing area and as soon as those courts were built you could go there in the morning they were played on 5 six days a week generally by the older people that had jobs that were maybe or didn't have jobs were retired and then you would go there in the evening and there would be three generations playing pickle ball every Court was used up I bought two extra pickle ball um Nets just to put on the the the Dual Purpose course and it wasn't uncommon for a family to come there with a 2-year-old three-year-old on a blanket uh colloring doing whatever and the 80-year-old the 50-year-old and the 12-year-old all playing the game and have a blast I have not seen any sports like that that uh they bring in the whole family smaller Court less wear and tear in the body accessibility inclusive enjoyable for people of all all ages all skill levels uh even knee and hip replacement I remember the first year I went down to Florida after playing pickle ball and I saw people lined up waiting to play but there s to be something very common they all had that scar in their knee knee replacement knee replacement knee replacement and I was kind of curious because I was trying to dig deeper into this phenomena pickle ball and they go can't play tennis anymore I can't run anymore but I can play this Sport and it it what it did is replaced something that was missing it was a void in their life it's the only sport I know where you have organized drop in play you can be one individual one paddle and you can come in and you come into a group of people and you immediately pick up a game all the years that I play tennis I had to find three people or eight people or 10 people to bring them to the court and play pick a ball is unique it's got a unique culture it's the only sport I know of that has drop in play so during the Summers you can go up to Cross Lake you can go to ironon and their outdoor courts and you know between 8 and 10 8 and 12 you can go in there and play you just put your panel in you rotate in um if if they've got enough courts they divided by level so um you're not being beat up by better players and uh you feel good you're having competitive play right away and on top of that there's so many apps I was just down in Florida uh uh Gaylord Palms down there in Orlando and I go on an app and I can see all the pickle ball courts right around that area and I can see where the drop in play there's generally a contact number and right away I can get into I I almost feel like as hockey parent again you know if you want to be immersed into a family and and get to know people have your kids play a hockey or get into pickle ball right away you're going to find out that uh you can make friends right away uh social I don't know of any sport any sport that I I've ever done that is more social than pickle ball it's the only sport where you can have good natured trash talking and bantering I don't know what it is if if you acted the way we act on a pickleball court on a tennis court there' be problems but it's just like as mistakes are expected and we can laugh at each other and we can have some fun so that's a little bit of the background I want to tell you a little bit about the growth in The Lakes area and out of state is going crazy it is absolutely going crazy uh demand and Supply is unbelievable so you know Cross Lake they put in six courts a few years ago and uh they're now adding another six courts they're going to add four more dedicated courts and the nice basketball court they put in there they're going to line that for pickle ball so it'll be combination basketball and pickle ball which means all you do is take in a rolling net or put in another net so that's 12 quarts if you go there now during the summer uh quite often you're going to see all four all six courts being used and another 30 people waiting to rotate in and play Mission Park not too far from here they put in two beautiful courts and they are used all the time plus they have a third court that is not fenced in it's got a temporary net pillar Jes just put in three Courts for heaven's sakes town of 500 people just put in three courts uh ironon Crosby they put in six courts here to Sumer ago Walker had three courts right near the lake They just added another six courts and it's my understanding I have not confirmed this but uh we had a meeting the other night uh with the mayor Brainard as well as the Director parks and wck and we were talking a little bit about Walker and somebody mentioned yeah when they decide they want to build the new six courts they raised the money in 30 days so I want to find out how they did that to be honest with you but uh but that's the beauty of it uh I've been in connection PM just put in eight courts and I'm now connecting with the gentleman that did that I'm looking for designs I'm looking for whatever I can move into our area and benefit everybody uh Detroit Lakes town of 10,000 they started a lot like a lot of communities do they had courts on the hockey rank and then they put six dedicated courts down by zorbas and right away those filled up and so now they've got I think they built another three courts this summer and then they've got more on the way I population of 800 uh they just put in eight new courts and I thought you'd want some of the data their cost was roughly 216,000 uh their numbers are they check the metrics roughly 200 players different players a week it's not the same 20 people showing up 10 times 200 different uh people and that doesn't include the Out of Towners the guests the tourists the seasonal people uh they have a budget of about $5,000 a year to maintain the court and do the painting and do the striping and the reason why I put that in there is that there's not too many um family community activities that you can generate maintenance money from that activity so Cross Lake is an example I pay I think $75 a year I play uh Crosby I think I pay them $40 a year membership fee uh Mission Park I pay them a $60 membership fee and uh some gives you perks like uh uh Cross Lake Crosby ironon um they have people that have paid the membership they have Prime Time drop in in the morning from 8: until noon that means if you're a premier member if you're a member then you can come in there and rotate in on the drop in do they welcome tourists do they welcome people coming through yes there there's not a policeman there but what they're wanting to do is they're wanting to give a uh I guess you might say a special privilege for those people that are willing to pay for the maintenance of the Court then afternoon Anybody Everybody it's a community Court uh they're all welcome but anybody in the community if they would like to come in at that specific time they can do that and I think it's very smart I think it works out very well uh the other part of this the part of the culture and Mission Park is the only outdoor facility that does this they use a program called Court Reserve so number one I have to be part of I have to be a member number two I can go I can use my app and I can see if the court if there's a court open and I can reserve for an hour and a half I can only Reserve if all the people playing I have to put every name on there that's going to be playing they all have to be members but it's the only place in this area that I can reserve a court to play outside everything else is either a drop in or you hope you go to the court and there's going to be an open court does that does that make sense are you following me so what I'm trying to do I'm trying to give you an idea of the culture and different things that you can do to monetize your court and take care of the maintenance and not have it be a a budgeted overhead every year uh pretty hard to do that with disc golf and uh you know baseball fields and some of the other things um so people say what is drop in play well it's a specific time and uh everybody can come whether four people come 10 people come one person and and they have paddle racks and you rotate in uh four players at a time you play your game to 11 and then you rotate out whoever's up next on the rack they come in there very smooth everybody understands this there's no arguments whatsoever if you have enough courts when I go down to Florida they've got 20 outdoor courts there they designate two courts as challenge courts and they're just saying you have to be a 40 which is rating system or better to do do the challenge they also take uh six courts and they make that a midlevel beginning Court uh type play and then they have four five six Advanced courts but that all depends on what you have for an inventory or Court space uh there again I'm just uh maybe this is like drinking from a fire hose but uh you're going to have enough to go on maybe have enough to discuss uh membership option I talked about that Prime Time play um I'm just trying to think if there's anything else I'm not going to go through the history uh gave you a little bit of my background that's about all you can probably stand uh there are estimated 48.3 million pickle ball players in the United States according to the association of pickle ball professionals pickle ball participation has grown an average of 223% over the last three years pickle ball is the fastest growing sport in America for the past three years this is Bill had asked me it sent me a message on this uh players at 18 to 34 make up the largest percentage of pickleball players Nationwide that's uh 30% which goes against my saying that pickle balls for old people uh you are seeing colleges you were seeing high schools put together it's it's not a uh what would you call it's not a sanctioned sport at those levels uh but some colleges have Club hockey and as an example uh uh North Dakota State they go out to main they play hockey out there it's Club hockey it's not the organized hockey the same thing is going on with pickle ball and so it's not a fad it's not going to die it's going to grow uh there are currently 13,969 pickle ball courts in the United States and there's roughly 60 a month that are being built now when I say 60 one would be as an example Breezy Point if you put in two four or six that's considered one court so you you probably get an idea that uh and they're all crowded isn't that crazy they're all crowded they're not like an empty bowling alley or an empty tennis court and the crazy thing is I've got individuals in fact I've played with a group of very high-end tennis players and the biggest challenge they're having right now was Finding other tennis players to play tennis with and many of them are crossing over to pickle ball because they they get the competitive juice uh they they like swinging or swatting at a ball and uh all the way i' I've got one 30-year-old that walks down I played tennis with him years ago and he came on to the pickleball court and I said well he crossed over the dark side and he goes Eric and and he is a he he probably one of the top two or three tennis players in the Brainard area he said I can't find anybody to play pickle ball with or play tennis with and one of the guys I'm now playing with uh Bruce Bolan had played Division One tennis coach tennis I think this year he's going to let his coaching go he's 65 years old and he goes I can't find anybody to play tennis he retired this fall and I'm guessing he's playing pickle ball four to 6 hours a day and like a lot he goes I don't know what I would do you know what the coolest thing is his wife's coming with him she's enjoying the sport she is is not you know acclimated and as him and the other night uh Bruce my wife and Bruce's wife We we played for a couple hours and it's it's it's Unique I've seen I've seen individuals that have gone gone through depression they've gone through cancer they've gone through whatever and uh they just had a hard time shaking that feeling uh and the pickle ball the social socialization uh the competitive part of it um the desire to get get better in some area of their life uh it provided them the platform now I'm not saying it's a cure all but I believe that if you know the more options you have you can better somebody's life and add value to it uh I mentioned an app it's called places to play so uh you can you can go onto that app and you can go to anywhere in the United States anywhere in fact when I was down in Florida I had a guy T he lives out in U Seattle Washington and we're talking about pickle ball and the socialization of it and you know how great it is and he goes well I don't think we have any courts out in Seattle and I opened up the app and I and and you can see the the little emojis or icons and I said you have hundreds you have hundreds and I just we I said where do you live we we we expanded it and and I go right there within two miles of your house there's three different courts and you don't have that in other sports I I I don't know why I don't know why you know I'm still trying to figure this thing out and the last thing I think Bill you mentioned you know the Noise Okay and uh it it is it is a noisy sport if if You' never been around uh I did this the it is noisier than [Applause] tennis it is noise your in tennis so this is called an Impulse sound because it's quick and it snaps it's an Impulse sound impulse sounds are not sounds or noise noise is not a positive and I don't I don't back away from it I defend it it's it it's part of the sport when I curled up buiji and I don't know if any of you are familiar with curling but Back 40 years ago when you curled 45 years ago you used a corn broom and the corn broom was I guess like a witch's broom would be the best way of describing it with long strands of the um strands and it was a cacophony when you walked into the curling club and you had five or it was just wh w w w w noisy but it was music to me and the same thing on the pickle ball court now there are several companies coming out with uh what they call low noise paddles they're they're trying to do what they can to change the sound of the ball and so there there there has to be a little bit of forethought uh foresight in putting quarts in um you know I I I I think Bill I sent this to you that they uh they they they take the desal level at 100 ft 200 ft 300 400 ft and they're going right around the 200t level is is pretty much okay it uh and that's without any sound deadening without any winds screens without any Greenery uh that type of thing and that all impacts the sound um so yeah is it an issue yeah it is it is and uh uh as we're looking to expand quartz in the brainer and Backer area then uh that's also a concern that we do talk about because the last thing I want to do if somebody's got a 300 500 $600,000 home and and they want to go to bed at a decent time and you know their T time may be different than mine we've got to keep that in in mind it's you know the older I get I realize that I have to watch out for preferences and my preference may not be the same color as somebody else's and I have to keep that in mind so uh uh anyhow let's see if there's anything else uh yeah so uh everything that I talked about tonight I've got in note forms I can leave that with you if if you want to I think somebody said this was going to be recorded and uh I I'll open it up to questions if you have any questions first of all just thank you I appreciate you coming um I have a just quick question about how much space is needed for each like each Court okay like you're saying there's um they're building two or three or six well just uh Joe has already got what Cross Lake has used and then we have it on this little this is Four Courts right here Four Courts okay it's going to go on our little map right so we're going to move it around so he's got he did all that researching uh so I can't remember if it was Dick Burns or somebody they they did go out and get some estimates on I think two quarts Four Courts and six quarts and uh I took the middle of the road so I I diagrammed what Four Courts would look like with the safety in mind have enough room in mind and then I I did an overview of of your area back here where you're going to put them um I think Four Courts would fit in there very nicely uh two courts is 60x 64 you can generally look at it as this way uh 30X 60 for a court 30X 60 30X 60 the court itself is 21 44 ft long so it gives you room on the sides and it gives you some room behind your Baseline for for serving or swinging um that would do it if you go up to Walker the first three they put in don't ask me why I haven't figured this out yet but they want to save a little bit of money on fencing so there's not enough room so if you serve the ball you bring your paddle back you're hitting the fence uh if you're going back for lob you're running into the fence and it doesn't take long for a fence to get pushed back and uh so you know that's when I'm working with back Brainard right now as I said the mayor was there and our goal is to take uh an area in Gregory park that has three tennis courts and it's an oversized area it's a a nice area but the courts are disarray they're disrepair they're uh an ey sore and Briner recognizes that and so we're going to repurpose those courts to eight pickle ball courts and we're going to do it the right way um we're going to do it with nice F we're in fact we're going to make it the best of the best in the area it's got lights on it and it's a lot of green area but we also I said okay I'm going to tell you this if we get some nice Quartz in there it's not going to take long before you're going to need more courts and if you really want to monetize it it would be nice to have 12 14 courts due tournaments and we can make some money for the city and we make some money for all the merchants in the area do you have room and they go oh yeah m oh yeah GRE Park's big and I go where else can we build another six courts they go how about Lum park down by the lake and so they've got a vision they're V in fact they're they're Fort they're they they go we are way behind the time and we've got towns of a th000 people that got six courts and we're kind of a money tourist town and we don't then we need to do something uh I'm also working with backer I'm trying to figure out where to put some more courts there looking at noise looking at uh you know where maybe there's already water and sewer and keep it to uh um at least more budgetable more more doable uh so I hope does that kind of answer your question okay so Eric you said you had a cost for like four courts did you come up with a cost approximately oh yeah um it's it's in my phone um just a best guess yeah um for courts it depend on whether or not you use concrete or uh asphalt the Cross Lake did asphalt Cross Lake their six courts now I'm going to give you a ball part figure and crossby iron tid did exactly the same thing when they put in they used the Cross Lake plan those courts right in the neighborhood of about 160 to 175,000 Isle last year put in their AC courts 218,000 um we're looking at uh so the repurposing of the courts in Brainard they had somebody come in I think they really underbid it they said that they could put six courts in there there would be a lot of wasted space which we don't want and the six courts uh fixing the cracks uh putting all new paint down uh bringing in Nets they they looked at about $60,000 uh as uh so over the last two months we created a nonprofit Lakes area pickle ball Association um I'm on the board and I end up being the president the uh I think if we're going to do it right then we're going to be looking at well over 100,000 and like a lot of communities brainer said we we we don't have money in the budget we we think we might have it budgeted by 20,32 and I go I do not want to have my 80th birthday party when you open up these pickle ball courts and uh you know the saying is you can get it to a top of an oak tree two ways number one you can plant an acorn and wait for it or you can climb it I said we want to know how to climb it and uh if you will give us a written memorandum that that court is dedicated to us and we'll go out and raise the money and a lot of communities are doing that right now that's uh the the the city is saying okay this land is designated uh here's a written memorandum it is designated and uh get some bids get a nice CAD drawing something presentable so you can go to you know companies that will provide that kind of funding and then also you can set up where your area area uh players will donate 500 or 1,000 or 2,000 I know with Cross Lake I donated money for for those courts and uh as well as Crosby um there's there's that kind of support and as I mentioned Walker I think they got their money in in a little over a month which uh some people go wow and I go doesn't surprise me uh I'm go ahead just back to your original what do you think is the better longterm asphalt or concrete uh it uh concrete's going to cost you 25% more and uh it's going to last quite a bit longer with uh and just about everybody around here is doing asphalt I think Pillager did concrete um perm I I asked one of the guys that uh I play with uh over in frzy and uh I said permed concrete so 50 Lakes they put in two and now they need two more and they are doing they did concrete but they did their's too small as well yeah but they also um they got a uh a huge Grant they're doing like sidewalks and all kinds of other things and uh they got a grant for $250,000 almost um with a grant writer and then sourcewell will also reimburse you for the grant writer well has a lot more money to be spending too yeah they do they just got a bunch of government contracts and uh the Army and Military contracts so between that and then the organization that you are president of now that we could we could also well I don't know if we're going to cross over to that uh we is that just going to be in Baer well Baxter brainer East go Lake but uh I I help out I you know there's there's no secrets a rising tide will raise All Ships and I'm excited that you would do something here in this area uh number one because I love the sport and I think it's beneficial to the community as well as uh merchants in town the second thing is that the more courts we get built even outside of brainer then it takes a little bit of the pressure off uh off of us and uh it's not being selfish it's just you know I want I want to help all the communities uh but i' I've got to be somewhat specific when I'm working with merchants and people uh in our area uh so that they know where the money is is being funnel I also know that dick Burns would be a big part in helping uh establish some kind of fundraising here and as we're chatting about he said Eric I uh when when we've got the green light he said I have no problem going to the major Merchants from the Breezy Point area and raising money there now in Detroit Lakes uh they even they went so far as just putting that little number they had six courts putting that little number on I believe they charged charge they got a donation of about $5,000 you know if you got six courts there's 30,000 right there and I don't know what your budget is uh I think you've already got a little bit of money set aside here and uh you put up Four Courts and you look at something like that now it's a reality it's not a it's not a dream anymore it's an actual reality and then if you set it up the right way then all your maintenance is going to be taken care of going forward uh I think that's a really good investment so anybody else have questions well I just want to thank you too and I would agree with you I my children are all in their 20s and we play together as a family and they play on their own with their friends and it's so cool to see something that everybody enjoys across you know Generations it's really really neat yeah so some of the courts uh our next tennis courts and we'll Renee and I and another couple we will be playing generally we like to have six and we can rotate in and out uh a little more bantering and trash trash talking going on uh but it's so it's it's so nice to see three cars drive up and uh it's these kids that roll out they're 16 to 25 years old they've got their boom boxes and uh they have pizza ordered while they're there playing pickle ball and they're not getting trouble they're not on their iPhones they're not on you know they're not playing fortnite or some of the other games and they're having an absolute riot and and they're courteous um you know I've learned to be able to stay focused and spider their music and some of it I even like I in fact I made suggestions what they could put on but uh and I think we need more of that I think we need more of that cross uh gram and grandpa with the the 20 yearolds and and talking about that there's not enough of that that goes on so this is a lot more to me than than just a sport as tennis was a sport to me to get out there and beat the crap out of the ball and you know Memorial Park in Brainard they have that big hockey rink and they've put up pickle ball nets right in the middle of it and that's a good point because we talked about that with the N the uh so they bu they did a beautiful um construction there with the uh what do you call the water park uh uh the hockey r and then they did a circular uh ice Rank and they put in a couple um basketball um Nets in there and when they did the uh the pickle ball first of all they and this is where it's important to have somebody that's got a little bit of a pickle ball background involved in planning uh they put all their courts in so they're East West you never ever ever ever put any kind of a tennis court or outdoor pickle ball court in east west because you're facing the sun in both directions um and uh they did it on cement and the cement is extremely rough so I can take uh I can take a a pickle ball like this and play for about 20 minutes and next thing it looks like a tennis ball it is so roughed up it is so uh so bad and when word got out that they had five quarts with temporary Nets in there and people went over and they call me up and they go you know what it is it's East West the surface is terrible it's going to ruin our shoes it's you don't want to fall on it because you're going to have a raspberry that's never going to go away and I said play on it and they go why I said because number one they put it out there and number two if you ever want to get something of quality then you've got to start somewhere you've got to support them you've got and and now here we are now we're talking to the mayor and the director of parks and W they they recognize that uh it's what we had to do to get it going and now we're going to go for his class and you know my hat's off to him for understanding the desire um the demand for the game and doing something so yeah very very good point there uh we don't want to go east west we we don't want to shrink and have a small area because that can be dangerous you've got people getting hurt and it ends up being an ey sore uh when I met with the mayor of uh um in the park W guy I said we want to have input I said if we're going to be the ones funding this on on your land we want to have input and it goes to what degree I said we want to have input on how the courts are being used if there's a prime time for people willing to pay to be a member and uh I said I look at it this way we're we're going to be married and I said we might have some disagreements but above all we're going to serve the community but you don't understand our culture and you need to and we may you know dial in things we may be in a state of EV solution but uh we want this to be a big deal and he goes right on right on so I hope that helps tonight uh I I can see your excitement thank you so much thanks so much really appr have you back again and we need experts on all these kind of things we need different experts in every area that we would you like these notes or yeah that' be great pleas I just made I made one copy who gets them give it to Joe give it to Deb or Deb one of the [Laughter] two all right uh well thank you now you got us all excited well it was fun glad we do that glad it worked out from playing right now great you like going out there right now yeah you too all right thank you so much okay so um disc bathroom is the next thing on our agenda Joe do you want to sure take that um basically uh the seasonal bathrooms um I shut them down sometime in Fall no set dat uh Beach it's sooner water gets colder boat AIS kind of tie it to when we pull the dock out um and then this year CU last year was kind of anomaly with the warm weather um the courses got used more um I believe we had the bathrooms removed um I know we're talking snowshoeing sled hilling sledding once we get some snow established um so it's just a thought do we want to have a bathroom there um both locations One location uh I mean for the snowshoeing and all that uh the the white Overlook Drive parking lot is the main access point so I mean if that probably make the most sense or just leave it as we go I just thought it would be a a question the committee should discuss and give me some direction on well I think that's a really important point and um I don't know why anyone would have to go to the bathroom less when they're snowshoeing and sliding than they would if they're playing disc golf so I guess I think I would like to have one there I think it would be important to have one there did you talk to them about keeping it all year round can the temporary okay yeah put the can they have to put deiser to clean it but it can be done okay um the cost it's like extra $150 a month 150 yep that's a per bathroom that's what we get charged so so we've never done it before where we've left the bathroom out there we've pulled them in Fall okay winter and then um you know typically right around Memorial Day is when things come back yeah I mean we could leave one out there and see if it gets used kind an experimental year yeah I was going to say too they'll be able to tell if I I I did talk to Joel um he says the uses down cuz I mean you know cleaning the bathrooms give you a good indication he said it falls things were all not just there all the bathroom use was tap bur off which totally makes sense I mean it's so uh okay I I'll make January February March April four months I we it just that's like January to April so that would be adding 15600 bucks for the year do we need a motion not really no I mean it's it's I say one bathroom at the main lot that white Overlook over over yeah yeah and just have have him let us know how much use it's getting so we can yeah monitor it's something I snow too I I remember hearing and temperature mhm I I I remember hearing last year cuz you I mean last year was such a warm winter and this winter was shaping up that way but you know not right now so all right last year when it got warm early the dis golfers were out there so there were people out there using it and they would need a bathroom so yeah kind of makes sense okay all right great old business well now we can get into the pickle ball discussion anything um else to add to what we just heard um I guess listening to the presenter um some of the initial you know location options like if this is a growth thing I think that should be taken into consideration cuz um um the map I provided um those red red plotted out lots are not the cities uh so everything from North drive over to North Spruce Drive and you follow North Spruce Drive that's kind of what always used to be called the city campus essentially um that city property inside there there's those private property chunks which uh two of those lots right next to the community Garden are in the process of getting donated but it's um it's a process cuz they weren't properly transferred as people passed on and things like that our attorney is working on it so um that's in in play but and then these little slivers um are basically they represent four four courses at Cross Lake um I scaled them to this map here and then just so you can see kind of so these are side by side courts not two stacked and two was two Courts at the space and then two courts two and to the long way so if he's saying don't do it north south so we made it don't do don't do it east west east west I mean do it north south yes so we got to so if you put the long way faing all the long it would more yeah it more or less be okay um so this is North this would be north south yep no well what's I was going to say what's awesome about what you have them here there's going to be no noise issues I don't see any houses around there y the airport across the street so yeah looks fantastic um I mean like like and part of the placement deal is like if we think Four Courts is going to be all it is you have more options if you after listening to his presentation if you think four quarts is a start MH it really limits it kind of in my mind between uh where it says North Pinewood Drive and Cedar Drive in between there yeah which unfortunately is the furthest walk to facilties parking lots but at some point I mean a parking lot like or something you could um it it's unfortunate like that building our cold storage and our salt sand shed I mean that kind of is occupying some good real EST I know down the road yeah at some point down the road I would not be surprised if that moves but you know it's that's bought and paid for and it's something we got to have um so that was kind of an area and the topography in that area isn't terrible um it's it's workable I know closer to the PSB there's a big hole there are a couple places closer to the main facility that would work but I don't think it' accommodate options or it's out in the wide open and like uh you mentioned that wooded area if we would keep the woods around it that would do everything we can to help sound and there's a few homes that are not shown on this map um on North Lake few drive that but I I don't think they're um the permits are issued and I know they're in this area but I don't I I don't know where they're going to be exactly I could investigate that further cuz the sound issue was something I 200 feet 200 feet he said so that's like I feel like if we're on the west side of spruce that's the best you can do I think that will be far and then we have to make sure we would send out notices to everyone that this is coming if we are closer to homes we can limit the time from you know say 9:00 in the morning till 7 at night so it doesn't interrupt people sleeping or putting kids to bed and that type of thing and and we um so now I got a rough idea um does that sound up in that area I mean it shouldn't drastically affect the cost estimate for our purposes where it's located unless we did it like in the fill fil there yeah right behind the PSB which I don't think I think that's a very great spot and they might need it down the road too you know some point there may be a bigger PSB and it also kind of serves as a storm water retention area what would be your Optimum spot that you would say depends if it's growing or not if it's not growing I would try and keep it closer to probably U those lots that were donated mm M like cedar cedar Drive kind of area the the the two near the garden yeah but I'm I'm just wondering like Cedar Drive somewhere I I mean if it wasn't going to grow that area would it would be close enough I guess you could probably get away with the bathrooms and water for a while but I I would assume at some point in our Park it's growth you know if it grows up in that area two bathrooms for I think just the community garden is really going to stretch like MH we have two bathrooms right um that's I I feel like if we're going to do this we need to plan ahead and assume that four is going to quickly show that we could handle eight so I think we need to kind of consider it as looking ahead we start with four but we have space to grow and yeah yep no that makes sense and put bathrooms if the time is appropriate you know when the community garden folks and the pickle ball players you know want bathrooms it's been discussed to have your own bathrooms and yeah could there even be bathrooms kind of where those donated lots are so that's right between the garden and you you'd have all room well I'm thinking um would it work to put it across from the red spot where the donated lots are the first go around and by that time then if they did when that goes through we could expand in that spot to the other four courts so that'd be like right on either side of North Pinewood Drive yep that was kind of one of my better locations I could see keeping it tight in as close as we can and close to parking and then and from for sure and then we could expand there cuz future parking um really I mean that open area to the east of the ball field is pretty much a parking lot the way it is yeah um around our Cold Storage um I it's kind of an eyes sore cuz we pick up a lot of garbage from the rways and you know a chair here we throw it up there until we get a dump truck load so garbage is sitting there here and there because we don't make a special trip trip for you know one item um that that would be one concern I'd have is you know the visibility of that and we could do things about it too we could you know if we had to fence it or whatever plant more trees but no that that's I just wanted a good discussion um so I have some idea my plan will be to uh get some estimates because I mean really it's Paving Company uh fence guys I think the 50 Lakes use the same fence that did fencing people that did our fence for the community garden yep um and Painters it's it's a pretty simple as far as that goes I will meet with WID Seth to you know if we were to hire a grant writer what do they need from us do they need a location what I'll have that discussion um I thought maybe we could have the Grant riter come to next month's meeting and tell us about what they do and how they do it I I'll check into it okay their grant writer is like uh I don't think they're stationed in Baxter they might like be in Alexandria Fargo WTH WTH oh width there the one that they used at 50 Lakes she lives in Cross Lake yep and we could I'd investigate both yeah essentially like just to inform us somebody to inform us at help once we get I I'll I should be able to inform you um but also like like I would expect like they're both going to have to this is what we'd like you to do and hopefully they both give us a bid so it's like you know if they're capable so we're not just picking one well and then if sourcewell actually reimburses you for the cost of a grant riter then they can you know it that's how 50 Lakes got it and that's what we did for our buet AIS is uh the boat AIS Paving we had to pay the cost up front but the GR the cost when it happened that was the last time Breezy Point used a grant Rider and that was I think that project was 200,000 or something like that and the city we we it took us a couple years to get it done but we did and you know we that was building a road so we had to get it engineered and like that's the heaviest Duty Road in the city actually cuz it met men do spec but uh it worked out just fine it's been appreciated um so that was the intent of that um just so I have this was a good discussion so I kind of know how to form things and um hopefully by the next meet probably two meetings out I'll H or next meeting or next two meetings I'll have more information more harder numbers a better idea on the process of getting grant writers um I know the DNR gives grants that's where we got our boat Grant from um and like the presenter said there's clubs and there's all those sorts of things too so um yeah yeah that's the other thing is just getting someone with a nonprofit organization to start getting funds because that's what they did across Lake they had a big group of the players and since we don't have those established here yet we'd have to try to find and I think he'd be willing and he said dick Burns is another one mhm context so that sounds encouraging because all the things I was worried about I I mean to me the the the most challenging part is the the where and how um if the Will's there I mean if the committee is committed to doing it oh I think we are I'd like to see it start tomorrow I mean U that that that's the hardest part what process do we need to do like is is this a point right now that we should be um formally going to city council and saying hey we are looking at pursuing this we need your permission um or should we wait tell we want this is what we want vote on it well I think we should get the numbers and a little bit more numb like get the let Joe firm up the numbers and then actually show them what our plan A and B for expansion is for future that we're thinking ahead and typically we've done in the past last you know we had subcommittees they're coming back I'm not really sure how it's going to be with uh you know Todd really he's the only change in councel so it it will be and he take you know he starts office in January so I think you know wait till Todd gets on board give him a month yeah and we're and then bring it and just present about it bring our information and then go from there well the budget set for next year but we still you know we can still look at they have money from other places and then getting paid back by some of these other the budget is set so we have to work inside of that correct yeah your budget is you know $50,000 I'm sure you can get a grant writer for that I would think for a small project I mean I I think well on some things I think you can write grants for smaller grants too that are perhaps but the one that you I can manage yes I mean had good luck with that so I I will visit with Jerry I mean really you know we're in transition from uh uh Jerry's running the things they just agreed to uh hiring firm to look for City administrators at a three to six month process I think that's a lot of Jerry's Focus right now I just don't want 50,000 to all be to pay for somebody to come up with a plan right I don't think so that or right grants I mean that's might yeah that's why I would get two quotes yeah well it cost 7,000 for them to do the one that they got 500 plus th000 um for the project and they got half of that um that sounds reimbursed and then the 7,000 in addition reimbursed from sourcewell so it was seven was the grant writer's cost but it got covered so and the and they know what they're doing I mean they know where to go when to go and they try to do it as fast and quick as they can so they can get a lot of those jobs for 7,000 when the bod AIS got paved I mean the the hardest part was getting that as the political agreement to do it once that was done like the plans and specifications that was the most expensive part the grant rider was much it it was it if I remember right it was five or 6,000 out of the the engineering fees it was pretty small so um I think it'd be the best um and do you do you all agree to um concrete over asphalt conrete over as if we're going to do it I'd say we do it right concrete yeah I agree I just want to make sure we we're not just assuming everyone agrees what what what's the lifespan of an ashall in that setting on the street it can last 20 years in that setting it's much longer to be honest with you there no weight on it there's no garbage truck or school bus goinging on there's none of that there's not plowing um there shoveling people do shovel and play in the winter people do it all the time they're that's a little different from our 000 right with belly scrapers that be that's a big difference if we decided to price it one guess I would rather if Eric says it's I'm going to lean in on what his expertise is is if that's I know a higher cost but it's well for example better well we could just how old as our basketball court cuz it was here before me MH it was the same age as the um playground the original playground so 90 20 years whenever that playground was mid 90s and that thing is still in good shape it's hanging in there yeah it it's in very good shape well I guess if we price the higher one we can always take both 25% off and know of concrete and know that's what the asphalt price is so we if push if push comes to shove we can always backk p and then it was painted it's paved mhm and we haven't done anything to it since so that the paint stays okay yeah it's I'm surprised how durable it is um like walking trails and things if if you don't see vehicle traffic their lifespan generally will be longer than a paved road but okay all sorts of things I mean you can do concrete do it poorly like he mentioned right and you can do asphalt well and it's a superior surface um you just got to be careful I don't see e either one I mean if we make our decision when we need to make the de decision I say we put in the biggest amount possible and then they say cut it back and then we then we find ways within that yeah he'll be that answers what I need to know uh for the meeting um par signs that was old business um from the last meeting it was that sence survey I did just to um I presented it let everyone look at it um kind of show where we're at what other communities are at um I know the council kind of directed us to kind of Ambiguously look at signage but not real clear on Direction so I don't really know where to go um I mean the one thing I did notice from the sign survey it seems like a lot of places like to have similar to our kiosk in that parking lot one of those we built that that's pretty affordable we can do that and then you have you know glass with stuff behind it yep that could be done for us very reasonably priced um to get some of those fancier um you know the plastic or fancier signage um that's where you like the drawn in like the Mission Park the sanded wood like those are they look very nice uh but they are also very and we have some of those in our city and those are we've priced them out a couple times they're significant um if that's something the council or the committee would like me to look into further like and also you know having these aerial maps that show like a Trails disc golf course layout um you know if the snowshoeing sliding Hill like some we could improve on some of that stuff um and it it it's do do you want to look at some of that stuff cuz I don't have is the keyos over there now we did yes so like getting the sliding symbol in the skiing symbol just in the kiosk so they know that's a starting point and then we need a map eventually which we're still working on but yeah um if there's interest um we can just print something like that and put it inside the glass right now for winter this winter yeah cuz the I will gather some prices to do some freshening and up on mapping to cuz I think we did our final changes to the course I don't see the layout changing um we could update you know the winter trail walking trail sign um and then if we'd want to do more kios I mean that'd be a pretty cost effective way to do it or if you want you know fancier like uh some of the other options in there um it just something to think about like uh can I make a just make a comment Gail mhm one yes thing I I do like about niswas is they they have those three trees they have different signs but those three trees carry on it's kind of like stands for that I kind of I like that idea where we have something that that that says Breezy Point that's their city logo that's their logo just like this that was on my shirt it's a variation on each one and yet it's consistent through their water is different um this one's got like the circle around it but they carry through with those three trees and I really like that idea of having like their their their stamp of of ownership on stuff and I like our logo I think it should be on every I do too that's our logo definitely us so we don't and blends with you know what we already have so okay yeah I think that's important and it's funny how almost all of them look the same they all have some trees and water so like between Cross Lake nissah and Breezy don't know what city you're in unless you read the fine print but they do all kind of look similar they all really got City staff at about the same time yep so we're going to be working on the garden sign and we're going to you know maybe that that would like be the first thing that we would all the garden rule little rule sign I'm going to try and uh get someone to make a demo of that for the next meeting I didn't it to it and uh we'll just have to have the signage as a ongoing thing cuz it's a yep to do it right like I'm not going to have it right first crack um and it'll probably take me longer but these two items will be plenty for this year well those two little ones but we're going to also have like a wooden one with this logo on it and then say community garden you know by the gate so we're working on that and you know going to tie that then into the park and wreck area one two we hope that can be in the parking lot so yeah that parking lot's been without for a while okay so signage anybody else anything okay Garden update uh the garden update I just put uh the budget as it stood um you know the estimated total 50,000 um actual cost up to this point almost 40,000 you subtract uh boot grants and uh stuff like that so we're at like 36,000 yeah yep it's in the packet very back so that's wonderful and then where it shows estimate ated quantities and then I put actual like those are changes that's why the costs changed I mean the fencing it went from six foot foot estimate to the actual 8 foot we put more gates um uh we modified the design a little bit but I think it it worked well I um everything else was you know close to budget or thereabouts uh AOS Tree Service donated a ton of wood chips for us that huge so um that project actually the guys did a great job Neil and we had a few things not work as planned so it took longer than we wanted but um it went really well um we're at the point where we just got to finish we got to put the plot markers sprinklers hook it up to water um tool racks and benches and we have all those pretty much all those things are pretty much purchased so there's not much more coming for a cost so I think our goal is staying under $40,000 should we should be right there yeah um and fantastic it looks amazing by the way does it looks better than I could have ever dreamt I'm so excited um it's it's community garden update um the reservation process will should be ready I just talked to uh width today to update the map to show the actual layout now cuz we widen the path and then I also uh had them change the number layout okay for the big plot so it's one two 3 4 instead of one and then 19 I just thought that made more sense um and then yeah we should be ready for that uh so when will they have that you know the map probably next week it'll be done can that go right onto the website so people can see like if they want to where their plot number is and all yep okay now that we got the final changes in it um now that cuz Neil we changed our layout here and there but uh no I don't see the map changing from here on so it'll be good um then as far as staff reports uh that's it I I don't have a lot after that um will the guidelines be put on the website this month before and the uh the application before January 2nd I hope to have time in the next week if not by the end of the month to work on website in general I got a lot to get there for 2025 in general for everything with the city so got to create an area for Community gard and stuff and how we'll track that and do that so I mean it's on there I mean there is a spot for it but the application and the guidelines and information in general so perfect wish me luck um and then staff report wise Jim McKeller did give his resignation effective today so he is not going to participate he had his reasons but he felt he hadn't been here enough this year and wanted somebody that could give their all to the parks committee so he did email me this afternoon and told me I had spoken with him and um he said some personal things he's had to deal with and work travel and um so I told him he would be if he did decide that he would be welcomed to come back when he felt this you know everything was back and um understandable so it's understandable and we're all human so yep family first so we do have um we do have two applications in right now so I suppose uh wait for the new do we wait for the new or do we ask the mayor to start interviewing those two it's uh well traditionally whenever uh spots open um you know if terms are expiring you take them and they go to the mayor and they handle it the mayor handles them however they want if they want to do interviews if they want to select people so do we I haven't talked to Tod do we want to forward it to Angel now or wait for Todd Todd Todd that's when the terms expire yeah the terms expire of the Year okay actually there's a minimum number not uh I mean we we could be fine without ever filling it right we don't necessarily need to fill it well that was the other piece I was wondering do we ever want to go back I mean right do here's five of us here do we go back to five or or have one that you I don't know I feel like it's been good because we have had people missing so we've been able to continue to do business and as long as we have interested people who bring different um backgrounds and strengths to the committee I think it's good to have if we can get seven and keep seven I think we should keep seven okay that's my opinion anyway we actually um had our old administrator come to uh coffee because this is the last uh week that this room is in this configuration and uh our discussion actually was Park committee size and uh Joe rodberg before Patrick he said the committee was seven members and they couldn't fill it so then they went down um totally normal he's in his opinion go up and down yep so as long as we have people that want the position we have two right now that have applied that as far as I know there might be more are these new applications or the old hangover once from way back I think they're relatively new and I resubmitted and I resubmitted mine too so they're not open necess I mean they are but gyms will be yeah gyms will be for next year okay and uh yeah it'd be a last discussion I had with Jerry is Todd's already working on committees I mean he's he came in on Monday he's looking at U planning um getting the the subcommittees back for councel uh personnel and all those sorts of things so I'll pass that information along the Jerry and um we'll get we'll let you know well on that note I'd like to thank uh Jim McKeller for his his time and his um input I think was very valuable for the committee and sad to see him go um a couple other things for Committee Member reports um we should have a grand opening for the garden we should also have a grand opening for the disc golf course in the spring so the garden committee can pretty much handle that Garden one and then forward to to us you know what they're thinking and they're going to start working on that tomorrow as a matter of fact um and it's like a social you know just a nice social event that we can get the community together and celebrate something so I think any chance we get that we can uh you know when we these dis golf we did something and it we literally had just like some cookies and lemonade I mean it was very simple but it was a nice celebration the first one yep the first course yeah our first one yeah I mean just something something you remember that huh we ended up with a lot of cookies left we did take a lot of cookies back but I mean hopefully we can do a better job of well it's a big if we can to have a little bit of a budget I mean I there's probably less than $100 know to get something like that and it's right to celebrate those yeah so if anyone has ideas just start thinking about those things and we can talk about that and I think that should be on the next agenda now we a golf group and then we have to look at um a motion uh next month or in February to accept the plan that was presented for sponsors we kind of left that hanging uh sponsorships for the holes we uh accepted it in August and um we just haven't moved forward with that because didn't need to be dealt with but now we're coming up on it and we need to start thinking about that if we want to have them go out and get sponsors for the holes and get money for it um I thought he already had sponsors he said he's had them lined up for years if they were that wasn't guaranteed and I guess it still isn't that this call of course is going to even be there so no one's going to go out and get sponsors if it's not going to be there so there's a list of people in mind but it hasn't formally been put through because it was up in the air so is that maybe something first the year as well we that should be on our agenda and I just noticed I went back through notes of things we hadn't finished up on so just getting that on our agenda looking forward radar mhm okay and we have already you know accepted that plan but we just need to move that forward to the council then and we were talking about making some rules around what kind of sponsors GA I believe the council already accepted that proposal in really okay we were supposed to set some rules for the parameters of what kind of we can still do that add on and okay came it just if I remember right it it was uh in that September meeting there was a bunch of things that just popped in there and I believe that was part I'll let you know well great fantastic okay well that's all I had anybody else have anything on committee reports if there's nothing else we will adjourn the meeting I make a motion to adjourn second all in favor say I I and opposed and we're out a good thank you and have a happy holidays everybody