##VIDEO ID:QhOOS29SPwU## [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] e e e [Music] if if you wish to speak to any item on the agenda or during the public comment portion of the meeting please fill out a speaker card each person addressing the board shall have three minutes to complete his or her comments on each agenda item for which he or she has filled out a card the chair has the discretion to determine or alter the time limits on any agenda item the board of County Commissioners requests that speakers appearing under the public comment section of the agenda limit their comments or presentations to matters relating to County Business that are within the board's Control Authority and jurisdiction good morning welcome to the November 12th 2024 forvard County Commission meeting Pastor Mark would you come up Sir Mr Pastor Mark Lewis and you are a First Baptist Church in Meritt Island sir yes ma'am thank you Proverbs 26 through 8 reads for the Lord gives wisdom from his mouth come knowledge and understanding he stores up sound wisdom for the upright he is a shield to those who walk in Integrity guarding the paths of justice and watching over the way of his Saints let us pray Heavenly Father we ask that in this day and at this time that you would give us your wisdom your knowledge and your understanding and Heavenly Father we thank you for the Divine wisdom that you give us from above because it Shields us and protects us and God I pray for the council members today and I pray for those who will be presenting and speaking God that you truly would watch over each person that you would guide us by Your Love by your mercy and by your grace and Heavenly Father we thank you that you are the one who gives us understanding in every matter and you know all hearts and so Heavenly Father at this time we entrust ours s to you in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit amen and thank you sir we have a quum I'll call the meeting to order commissioner felner please join me in the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republ for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with li justice for all all right Commissioners I don't believe I have any cards on the consent agenda can I have a motion to approve it unless you guys have something you'd like to have pulled so Mo M motion by commissioner Goodson I'll second second by commissioner felner all in favor say I I opposed passes 40 we are going to move into public comment do we have any public comment cards okay Miss Christina Fleming good morning Commissioners Christina Fleming District 3 retired firefighter I'm going to start out Woods Hurley Rutherford Cohen Cole Frasier Hill Pierce Glasser Martinez rad Corman Nelson be Dy Braga bomb Garner Bodine melroy litzenberg zart Underwood Murphy georgei milikin Shirley derival Moore Espinosa Sasser Alexander Bruner minow Lisi Riviera Smith heninger Fuentes Cruz Toro coland Shepard McBride Chadwick MWI vote ble marpel Hudson hat Smith Douglas Graber christaldi KN rer Higgins Marsh Deon Keeler Cunningham allenson Gandy Raa Tes rendez Bell Ricky Jones jow Boer Garcia binias rack fros Murray Braga Scott Gillette Sinclair Hendrick senon neaves Carnival Love Joseph alkala wood yel wash Tero or Tado quz sander trari Helen dispatcher Carol assistant chief Connor dispatcher coats dispatcher Kelly Logistics Rose fire inspector Osborne Logistics manager Long Street dispatch Val Valdez Logistics clel assistant chief Toano admin Cindy pollen and it cello these are 92 field Personnel 104 total of fire rescue Personnel that have left historically departments under the board of County Commissioners anticipate a 10 to 12% employee attrition annually this year we have lost approximately 20% of its field Workforce this is not sustainable we also have six people that have been mandatory today that are being forced to work that didn't want to work today we also have a restructuring upstairs and we all know with new titles come new new pay where is that money coming from thank you ma'am turn my mic off Mr Rick help a finger yeah we I can do that if you'd like to yeah I would okay we'll do that understand there's a rule about you need five in that before it's it's it's all right it's yeah you're the only one left so yeah all right we're going to move into item H1 good morning um this item is a request for after the fact uh unpermitted drudging of Pelican Creek uh staff determined that the proposed activity is not consistent with Comprehensive plans related to Wetlands surface waters and the Mane protection plan staff requests that the board consider the applicant submitt and the staff report and determine whether the activity meets the definitions of uh best public interest and I have I can answer any questions if you have them thank you ma'am commissioner Goodson I have 10 cards on here I think if you gave an opening with it being in your District it might help a little before we got started do you mind no not at all okay this is a um project down south Pelican Creek that the um owner did some damage to Wetlands and Dred without a permit so therefore we could be on the the county could be on the hook between $500 $700,000 for mitigation and putting back mangroves and all that now with all that being said this is right now is a finding to see if we want to progress further this right is that right staff whether the proposed activity and the completed activity meets the definition of best public interest that's all it is madam chair thank you sir I have Mr Greg Loggins applicant morning Madam chairman members of County Commission I'm Kim renka I'm here on behalf of the um the U actually appc Aaron reninger and um Mr um Xavier um I have met with staff recently and we are requesting a continuance till December 3rd the staff report came out relatively late and we did have one meeting with staff late on Friday but we would like to have more opportunity to meet with them um I've talked with Mr denninghoff uh December 3rd would be before the proposed code enforcement there are a number of people here that may want to speak but also to it's a really complicated issue and if we start now and it is continued to December 3rd we would have to start all over again so I do have a presentation if you didy the continuance but I think we were going to try to work with the county to find out a mutual agreeable solution so the County's not on the hook for $700,000 which um I think is is is not likely because ultimately if restoration is made it has to start with my clients so with that I would ask you continue to December 3rd thank you ma'am question yes commissioner Goodson staff can you comment on that would you be in agreement with that or not we feel like we're on pretty solid ground with our policy interpretations with the assistance of the county attorney's office but if if if you all would like to decide for continuous continuance to work with them we could certainly do that okay commissioner um to sort of speak to this the uh our position uh as Darcy just explained is pretty solid uh we believe um the we did have a meeting last week um uh technically this is their request for a public interest determination uh and and we responded to their request and now they would like to I think um uh respond to our response and our report that we've prepared uh we don't anticipate that our position is going to change uh but we're willing to listen I I think that which we attempted to do last week but I it was pretty short notice uh I would say that uh this would not delay the code enforcement case uh although um I'm not sure where we would stand with the uh process with the EP and the core of engineers as far as the County's situation and or and I'm not I hav any considered what their situation with d would be okay all right John you got a comment uh Madam chair please uh can you speak to the $700,000 that Mr Ranka um I can explain how that has arisen uh the um it uh I originally we had anticipated based on the d uh proposed consent order to the county uh that we could be conceivably on the hook for as much as $700,000 but it's really 500,000 uh and uh one of the challenges is that U part of the consent order expects us to uh provide plantings for trees that uh the applicants for the P have tore out uh and uh the um we had trimmed them aggressively I guess but uh elsewhere when we've done that they've grown back uh but they don't grow back when you tear them out by the roots and uh which is what happened and uh so we don't know how we can replant without restoration and so that puts us in a serious uh state of limbo if you will uh regarding what it is we will wind up doing so we're negotiating with the DP regarding this uh as far as what the county would be requested to do uh we uh certainly have opinions about who should plant the trees the one that torm out should plant the trees uh the uh but that's really not a matter for the P at this point uh but it will be with with d and with the uh special magistrate and the code case so the cost of plantings and the cost of mitigation uh are where those expenses come from one followup uh I got the timeline for the Code Compliance uh December and this would not technically impact that but can you speak to the uh consent order uh you mentioned what what's the timeline with with that um if we have to do we have to have to plan to D by a certain date or and what impact will uh pushing this till December or a later date have on on our uh issue with the EP we we are working with theep uh uh negotiating if you will going back and forth and we've proposed a couple meetings with them we don't not sure how that's going to work out uh they've taken a position uh which if it were my choice uh we would absolutely reject and go to a to an administrative hearing regarding if they uh persist in the position that they have uh on the uh on the one hand I don't know I don't have a specific timeline it'll it'll be a case of if if they reach a point where they don't want to talk to us about it any longer we think we're at an impass then we'll probably go to administrative hearing may I respond yes ma'am the the irony is is when we met with FD last year they were giving us time to go through this public interest determination process and if the county granted a public interest determination process we would permit what could be done possibly have to restore some and that would have stayed everything for the county as well we are also negotiating with FTE and Army Corps we're in a tolling agreement with Army Corps and basically what FTE wants is going to include Mr mener Mr Xavier and the county they've done individual consent orders waiting on the other to do something which makes no sense so we're trying to talk to FD to get a if we have a consent order a joint consent order because they have our obligations in the County's consent order and the County's obligations in our consent order and it makes no sense so we are also working with Bo and Army Corps but again the irony is if we got the PID the county wouldn't be on the hook for anything and that seems to be missing in this whole analysis question please commissioner Goodson question then if you were waiting on that why did you do the dredging and tear up the U mango I I did nothing and and again that's an your client why did you yeah that that's an a Code Enforcement issue I can't speak to that Mr reninger and Mr xaver would have to speak that we are now trying to do something that has been done hundreds of times in this County with a public interest determine as after the fact people often go in and impact Wetlands or build in the surface water protection or the shoreline protection buffer and they come to you and ask for a public interest determination most time there's not even a discussion and we had met with the county last July and we thought we were going down this path we were quite shocked when we got that report that's something we're trying to work through that's why I immediately got a meeting two days after we got the report but my Consultants were involved and the Consultants need to be involved Madam chair please sir from what she said is there any truth that that or is that totally or is everybody confused so are wetlands protection code and comprehensive plan have certain allowances for the board to make public interest determinations for Wetlands that involves say if it's a commercial development in a commercial area on a corridor where they go they have to go out and assess the functionality of it and then it the comprehensive PL plan allows you an applicant to ask you for that public interest determination for commercial development uh for residential development we have um we have a density restriction in there and there but there's allowance according to the year you're app pled the size of your property um but the public interest determination is for commercial properties and wetlands surface water protection also has a public interest determination section in it for uh impacts in the surface water protection buffer however Wetlands is only related to commercial development in certain circumstances and do I understand you madam chair Maya do I understand you to say that your position if you have this as a contingency is not going to change tomorrow next week or when they come back is that a pretty fair statement not to my knowledge I I mean we have we have overlapping policies that are prohibiting the activity which would be the wetlands protection also the surface water protection and the Mane protection plan so there's different layers on there um for the the denial of the request and but and for best public interest is supposed to be a public project so that would be if uh Public Works had to do something for flood control and and the Army Corps and the state approved it that would be a public interest under our best public interest pro project Commissioners I I don't anticipate that our position is going to change um as I said we're pretty firm on we we understand what the facts are uh we know what happened uh we know most of when it happened and uh we also were aware of of the um U the the fact that our code officer appeared and uh uh based on a complaint uh on on a Wednesday before Thanksgiving and informed the uh applicant the property owners that they needed to discontinue that because they were uh doing so without a permit and uh they proceeded to continue with the digging uh uh before the code officer even left the site uh so we don't we don't anticipate that we're going to hear anything that's going to make us change our minds uh but we haven't heard it so we haven't uh uh you know we haven't heard more than what they've put in their application which uh We've uh provided information which we think effectively rebuts almost everything that was in that application uh the uh uh so I'd be curious to know what it is they think is different that we would want to uh reconsider some in some way uh but uh uh you know I I don't want to say we that we're infallible we could we we could change our minds I suppose Madam chair I'd like to make a motion we continue uh with this today and let her present her case you have cards yes um Miss um County attorney did you have a comment sir your lights on I think it was answered by staff thanks thank you so um commissioner Goodson you want to bring this at a further date after they have time no you want to do it today you got it okay um so we're going to go ahead and hear cards okay all right I just I I do want to bring to the board's attention one issue this is going to be an evidentiary hearing you've heard evidence from Mr denninghoff I was hoping we didn't have to go into that process and we could resolve this by December 3rd um the Consultants have not had the opportunity to talk with them we disagree one they never answered your question If We Had A P would that solve the issues um they just again went to their code and we disagree with their interpretation of the code at the end of this hearing I'm going to ask for 7 days to bring rebuttal according to your board policy so this is going to be tabled it would have to be by your Port policy to let us come back with rebuttal evidence after 7 days which would put us back into um the new commission so again I would ask that the rest of the working are tbling this so we can do this properly okay I am and not that great at um County legalism um Mr Richardson is that correct sir I am uh I'm looking we are you looking at yes sir board policy 97 um it's on page six under four quasi judicial hearings in addition two or in Li of cross examination the applicant May request an additional 7 Days beyond the date of hearing to submit evidence and rebuttal of testimony presented by the persons presenting evidence and opposition at the applicants and tabling of the item to allow consideration of the submissions so I will be doing that at the end of this hearing which will put you may request it but it's not required that the board will allow that furthermore uh the public interest determination here really is a legislative finding of the board so it's it's different than your quasi judicial proceedings so while the applicant can request that she's correct the board's not required to Grant it but this is an evidentiary hearing which puts it into quasi judicial in my opinion all right thank you ma'am so there's no motion to continue uh the other issue I was concerned about is there's only four Commissioners present and we weren't able to meet with all the commissioners before this item so that was another reason that I wanted to continue this but we are prepared to go forward if that is the will of the commission um again my name is is we're moving forward correct pardon ma'am I didn't I'm sorry I I didn't okay we are moving forward correct yes ma'am all right okay again my name is kimanis Morris Mr Richardson so help me uh or help us here how how much time do we allow the applicant um does this switch it over to um that 15 minute I don't I don't know th this is a bizarre one admittedly because the proceeding is somewhat quasi judicial in nature but ultimately it's a legislative determination you're going to make as to whether it's a public interest or not it's not a quasi judicial determination as to the public interest finding although you may make findings of fact in support of that so that part is evidentiary my recommendation would be to allow the applicant up to 15 minutes allow her to reserve some time for cross- examination or rebuttal if she so desires thank thank you 12 you just already did three is that with the three included or we start over I wouldn't start over I'm sorry this you're doing brand new stuff on me Miss ran I've not done one of these before all right all right let me uh again Kim renka on behalf of Ving reneger and Roger Xavier here for the public interest determination to allow for um the opportunity for the clients to apply for a permit to the St Johnson Army Corps to fix the uh alleged drudging and the alleged impacts to Wetlands and mangroves um we met with the county back in July of 26 um we had a full house of County staff with Mr denninghoff um natural resources was present after the county explained its position discussion revolved around this PID and we really thought we were moving down this path it took time for the Consultants Lisa Tolen and Clayton benefit uh Bennett to work through the process so we could get the public interest determination to you we have been working on this for a year um you have previously done many PS for commercial industrial and and for restaurants based upon an economic issue not really a public interest determination so we did not think this would be as contentious as it has become I did meet um with the staff last week and we were hoping to move forward um but it it it appears that there is no interest in trying to resolve this problem through Army court and uh D through the staff they just want this fixed and we believe that there are reasons to allow this to be done to allow a permit to go forward with Army Corps and FD to make this a more navigable Canal impacts to Wetlands or the shoreline or the surface water are allowed for the um navigation issues and there are times and Mr rer will tell you that he has navigated in this canal um under 62 3694 permitted uses are Recreation uh there is a Prohibition but it also says that if um functional Wetland has been in fact impacted and it's not feasible or desirable to repair and maintain then there's a mitigation process at this point we don't even know how this could be repaired the county doesn't allow for revetment they don't allow for stabilization so backfilling of this is going to be very difficult which is why we wanted to go forward and try to work with the county to try to resolve this again we had thought the county was going to be in support of this P throughout this process and it was surprising when we received the report last Wednesday uh there are some discrepancies within the staff report they say there is routine maintenance but they cut the mangroves down to the roots they piled up debris along my client's property and along the county property uh for 420 ft this was not routine maintenance and they did indeed dredge they removed mck but it was still dredging um regarding where this was done this is a man-made Canal the pictures are before you so this was man-made canal and man-made Wetlands they're not pristine Wetlands it's not a perfect habitat um this is not leveraged to obtain permits this is a requirement we have to get the County's Public interest determination otherwise we don't meet the man protection plan and we can't move forward uh the dredging is for water flow for the public and for boat use uh the historical use includes applicant use of the canal with boats um the county admits that it's man-made that it's 2 to 3 feet deep certainly deep enough for uh boats uh the County's Financial Risk um if the applicant is permitting these Wetlands the financial risk of the county is nominal the applicants will move forward with all the permitting all the work and then the uh the consent order will just go away into the sunset because the consent orders now do anticipate that things would be repaired or permitted uh again the other PS you've have approved have been bonface hires Wickham Corners Tractor Supply marker 99 and again these are all things that either were very large Wetlands for economic or to fix something that had been done in the past um to the packet I gave you the public interest determination this was a a man-made Canal you can see that in 1969 part of this was dredged in 19 91 St John's issued a permit for this exact work that is being requested that would be again permitted um and you'll see that phase one of this was completed you'll see um in that page three of what I gave you the county does say that they removed 400 plus or minus feet of vegetation they mulched 10 feet along the East and West Bank however they left the mulch and the dredging material along the property of my clients um you'll see the canal maintenance photos and dates this was prepared by my client Mr renar you'll see that they cut to the roots so this was a project that was started by the county and that um was not done to standards that the average person would have been required to do perhaps they didn't take the roots but they took them down to the roots the next picture is again before and after pictures of the county mulching and you can see uh what was taken down to the ground and then the uh single photo is um again what had been removed by the county the uh exhibit a that's in your packet this shows the restoration area that's being requested uh by um FD and that yellow area is the portion that the county has to do exhibit B is more of the area north of old Causeway that the county has to do and then the second exhibit a is what Mr rener and Mr zavier are being requested to do so this is what FD wants this my clients to do not the county to do so that's why I do not believe that $700,000 is accurate the next I've given you is a flowchart prepared by Miss Tolland and it explains why we're here that we have to um uh get a PID to comply with amenity protection plan even if we get this PID today we have to go forward to the Army Corps and and FTE then have to come back and get permits from the county but this would all uh Forstall the consent order and then as the last picture I've showed you is a picture of Mr reninger and his daughter in a kayak in this canal um a canal is a man-made Waterway that's what this is passive Recreation is appropriate for man-made waterways public interest include passive Recreation this is all from your code and your comp plan um the discrepancy we have is the 62 3694 interpretation that this canal dredging is a residential land use it's not it's a canal so the saying that you can't impact Wetlands for residential use is correct but this is for Canal use for um flow and drainage and Recreation again Shoreline protection buffers allowed for recreation surface water protection buffers allowed for Passive Recreation um pest public interest is a net benefit to the public staff has said that there is really no benefit to for the flow well if you build a deeper hole you're going to hold more water so there is a flow benefit and Mr Bennett um can explain that a little bit better the staff report didn't say there's no benefit they said it's a nominal benefit and to beginning of a plan that the county had started and that um this would assist with regarding objective five of the wetlands comprehensive plan um we have a concern that it's not feasible to repair and maintain this Wetland based upon the need to revet and fill we're talking about 45 ft of fill that may be necessary and uh with uh turbidity and all those other issues with filling it's going to be very difficult to do um new navigation channels connected to the inan river are possible um when it's in the best public interest maintenance of ditches that have been connected to the that have been designed or been used for boat traffic is also another reason for best public interest um we have provided at least one uh recomend one picture that this has been used we have stated this has been used for navigation the intent is to permit what has been done or as much as the Army Corps and D in the county will allow we cannot do that without a public interest determination and that's why we're here with that I'd like you to stop my time and u Lisa Tolland Lisa and Mr Bennett if you'd come up too because you're only going to get about a minute and a half each thank you good morning my name is Lisa Tolen I'm with Tolen environmental Consulting 4092 Sparrow Hawk Road Melbourne Florida um I just kind of want to just really summarize and probably more succinctly what some of the points that Kim had made previously and to take that step back that this is a man-made Upland dredged Canal that that um over time has recruited with mangroves and then Upland of those mangroves it's recruited with some Shoreline Wetlands the county came in and basically took those what those mangroves which arguably are the most valuable part of the shoreline water interface um mangroves are the only plant in Florida that is protected by its own special act so when the county came in they basically took arguably the best part and mowed it down to the ground completely in violation of the mangrove protection act um if I was doing this as a private consultant it would be a 4-year project and we would never be allowed to go down to less than six feet so to sit there and say oh this is all this environmental value while we basically just take it out and then what's behind it is worth you know driving these people into you know massive amounts of money to try and restore the Lagoon it just doesn't make sense so um sorry my breath I got to read a little bit so our position is that the County's interpretation of the code just doesn't make sense on several levels when you're trying to apply a residential standard and saying that basically the canal is an accessory use to the property and it's not it's a separate use and that concept is reflected in the staff report as well which says in the prohibition section of the code if you have Wetland impacts that are related to access for surface water you go over to the surface water ordinance and deal with it in that ordinance and that makes sense Wetland ordinances deal with Wetlands surface water ordinances deal with surface waters when you go over to the surface water ordinance that's why we're here it allows for Access with the public interest determination we need this public interest determination because when you are within surface waters you trigger manate issues manate issues are the first time where the county starts the regulatory process typically when you go in you get an Erp from the state you get a 4 permit from the feds you bring all your permits back to the county and then you get your county final development orders here because of manate issues the state government and the federal government cannot issue permits in violation of The Endangered Species Act so we have to have a public in interest determination to be consistent with the manate protection plan to apply for the federal and state permits so when we denied the P ID you denied any kind of going back in for the per [Music] did you I'm sorry you're I guess if I'm sharing Kim's time my time is up yes ma'am so okay did you guys want to hear from the other gentlemen if if the board wants to consider that the first several minutes of the presentation were used to request the continuance that was denied the board can certainly do that in its discretion to make sure you hear the the case fully yeah I don't mind hearing the other gentleman for three minutes yall good unless they want to reserve it for bottle unless you want to reserve for re bottle okay and you are good morning uh my name is Clayton Bennett I'm a professional engineer registered in the State of Florida um I'm with benett engineering and Consulting 4940 ranchland Road melbour Florida um I'm here to speak about the flood aspects of these improvements and the county has recognized there's there's flighting in this area and in 2001 um 2021 did a hired a consultant to do some um analysis in that area they came up with some different options they they phased phased it where they had phase one kind of being a North Area phase two the South area they also looked at dredging the um Canal not dredging the canal and um we understand that staff had some it questions about that um we just got the you know staff report on Wednesday I looked at it Thursday and immediately requested of Staff the input data that they use for their analysis and to date they have not provided that to to me to provide additional comment on that but specifically what I wanted to speak on was this portion from old Causeway Road South to the tidal waters the uh Hansen report that the county had accepted in 2021 showed that if you only did the phase two improvements or you did the phase um uh one and two improvements that there would actually be a net impact uh and impact being an increase in stage on the downstream side of uh old Causeway Road and so what can be accomplished here is um let me back up you resolve flood issues by increasing flow so the county came in and you know and this analysis said you know if we put in three 36 in culverts we're going to reduce the flood stages Upstream but by reducing the flood stream elevations Upstream you have to increase flow so now there's more flow through this channel from old Causeway Road South to the tidal waters if if you leave that Canal the same Dimension same roughness coefficient and you increase the Flow by inspection any questions I'd be glad to answer those thank you Mr Scott Hall he's coming up I ask a question County staff um the photos that you have in our pack at November 23rd 2022 may I ask you whose property's being dredged in that photo who owns that property we believe that's Mr Xavier's property the one to the South and he so the area being dredged they own those property that property they own the actual land that's yes that's part of their property that was delineated Wetlands correct and you can see like as you go as you look to the north which would be coming down on the paper that he was working it appeared that they were working south from north to south thank you Mr Hall um I live on mistl view just north of Aaron I don't I'm not exactly sure how far but uh I spend a lot of time up and down the road playing enjoying myself the the canal uh floods on our street and from our street down to erands hasn't been maintained uh during this last hurricane I got in my kayak and I paddled down that all the way down to where uh there's a culvert in between but I mean that it really it is of public interest somebody needs to clean that up and get the water flowing properly uh because it's flooding our properties up further uh so I I just believe I have nothing to tell you it it absolutely will help or not but I mean I paddled my canoe down it I can tell you it's jammed up there's trees across it it's it's backf flowing uh somebody should look at this in a bigger light than just he's made a problem because he's kind of fixing the problem that nobody else is addressing that's about it thank you sir Mr Mark lutters then Zachary coffee you'll be next sir uh first of all I'd like to um thank everybody that's here today uh for this proceeding um I'm proud to be in a country that allows us to come up and speak to these issues that affect us publicly um and especially on the day after Veterans Day it makes me uh Happy um that I did spend the time underwater in the Mediterranean while my son was born so first of all I uh I am a neighbor of Aaron and and the other gentlemen who are um part of this proceeding I'm very familiar with the area I'm very familiar with uh uh what has happened between the counties uh Dre in action um and I agree with the pictures that show that when the maintenance dredge or whatever you want to call it went through um if if if the mangr are taken down to the roots um I would say it went even further than that because after that was done what whatever was displaced within the canal was then you deposited on top of it so I would say um if we're going to be working on coming up with a resolution let's work from a basis of a fact the fact is all of that was removed um in the beginning by the County's action within that Canal okay um going from there I read through the staff report um I find that there's a lot of things that are am am ambiguous with in that report itself okay um you know the uh I do know for a fact uh being a land orer in area uh at least on the survey that I have that portion of the canal is classified as being semi navigable okay um as I understand it it was cut way back in the 40s and was maintained to uh ensure that water was drained sufficiently during flood time times of flooding um it also provides uh one of the things that wasn't mentioned was it provides a uh a damper for surface waters to protect our Lagoon from also right so if we increase that Basin that provides a better uh a larger capacity to absorb the surface waters that come down whether it's pesticides whatever to protect our Lagoon right so that makes sense to me also um so County already recognized it's a semi navigable Canal um I I believe you know this is a [Music] hearing Mr Coffee hello my name is Zach Coffey uh I've been down this canal prior to being dredged uh and cut the mangroves cut down and thereafter um both in kayaks canoes power boats jet skis all the rest of it I would say it does have a public interest in uh recreational use um I take my daughter fishing down there I've taken friends down there fishing I've seen more Wildlife increase in manatees Dolphins Turtles all sorts of uh wildlife and and birds partaking in that area uh since it's been dredged and so I I do see it as a positive um I've been up and down that road for the last five six years um taking part in the recreational activity that can happen on that canal and um I I've seen how the water is affected through the rains and now it being wider than it was um and deeper i' I've seen less water come up into the roads up come up coming up into the neighboring properties and residential lands there uh and so I've seen a flow increase for those areas I've enjoyed it I have friends that enjoy it I I think it does have good public interest um and being that it is a navigable Canal uh that's joined to another Canal I I think that it is probably something that should be allowed and permited and uh I I don't really see an issue with with it being the way that it is um and also to say that the mangroves that were cut th those things weren't coming back they they were cut down all the way down to the roots and as some other people have said the deposits of the mck and stuff put on top of them thereafter I mean nothing's growing nothing's growing there after that so um the county removing the mangr the way they did you know you're not really taking preservation to mind when you do that that's all thank you thank you sir Mr Mark selrom hello I live on Monteray Avenue and Monteray is probably six blocks to the north of where Aaron's property was where he supposedly dredged and at the end of my street I'll show you what it looked like this morning if could I show you that this is this morning like picture Tak that I just took see all that water like that and I've lived there 13 years show you that's the end of my street right now and the um if it was never ever that bad that it would flood all the time and then this it it it always flooded like a few times a year but now it's like you saw the signs that are there those signs please no wake through there and you know water on road they're there all the time now they're just there and it might dry up a little bit but then all of a sudden the water comes back every high tide you know they say it's the king tide the moon tide it might be the environmental whatever now but after they dredged north of there right for all the way almost to 520 or whatever there's supposed to be some Springs up there in the main Lake and that's what creates the water flow out of there in my mind and since they dredged the whole part north of my street there's been this water there and because they could not dredge where my road is at the end of the street there for they started to and a thing couldn't do it so but they said they'd come back and use the drad some other dredge but they never did it so it's just full of trees and muck and whatever smells sometimes not all the time but uh it's a mess and the road like that is just wet all the time so I don't know if the county has to come in and fix the roads or fix whatever but I think if they dredge that out and it would create a flow that would allow that water to go past my I think it's backing up at the end of my street right and coming out into the road like the picture you just saw so I think if they did do that it would be awesome and it would be create all the streets to the north look really nice I have pictures of those too but they all there's not many mangroves it's all cleaned up it looks like how beautiful Aaron behind his house looks like a like it should look not like just a messy Canal that was dug haphazardly and just left there but anyway so that's I see it as a good thing if they would do that thank you sir Mr Joel Chambers hey good morning my name is Joel Chambers my family lives on the canal and I'm here to speak in support of the public interest determination there's really three factors to me that that drive that public interest the first is flooding you've heard a lot about the flooding navigating the road of Newfound Harbor Drive is is a challenge we see that road flood often and since the draging work dredging work has commenced we have seen an improvement to flooding on that road uh the second is uh the wildlife that's uh taken habitat in that area we have manatees that now breed in that area my family love loves them my niece loves them my parents love them I would be really sad to to see that filled in and and see them have to move out lastly we've met a lot of very cool community members people kayak up and down the canal we've gotten a chance to meet them uh bond with our community and see people enjoy this canal so I hope we can work with the county work with Mr reninger work with the state to uh improve the area and and put it to good use thank you thank you sir Miss Grace Chambers good morning um you just heard from my husband Joel I just wanted to reiterate that as a resident that lives Long pican Creek um since we have seen the work done we have seen Improvement um with our particular property as well as our street the flooding has decreased and most of all I really enjoy the wildlife we see now um prior to any of the dredging work being done that Creek was um very shallow very Mucky it was primarily where we would see a lot of mosquitoes and it wasn't bringing a whole lot of value or enjoyment to our backyard and now since it has been widened um we're seeing a lot of wildlife um as my husband mentioned we see manatees uh there's one in particular that I have named beatric um she lives in our backyard and she did have a baby about year and a half ago which is absolutely wonderful to see uh more recently we've had dolphins and we've also seen baby dolphins so um as a resident along Pelican Creek I've really enjoyed seeing all the wildlife and would really like to come to an agreement that helps sustain that environment for them and continues to have them right in my backyard thank you thank you Mr Xavier hello uh my name is Roger Zer I'm one of the applicants in there um I made some copies I don't think that this going to be for everyone because I don't have much well I sold my house in Brazil in order to build this house for vcation I pay about $10,000 $10,000 plus per taxes yearly and I I want to enjoy my house and I can't because if you seen the very F first picture in there we see some work that the county was doing and then on the second page this is my backyard for months I called the county many times I tried to speak with everyone here and in my backyard was like this by the end of the year I had many family members come from Brazil and I just could not think enjoy the house third third picture show a little bit more how the backyard it was and then the fourth page we had the hurricane with the hurrie in the very last picture we see pellets flying over the water and now we see all the leftover that has been left there for the county messed up my entire backyard so we could not enjoy and uh I had this cleanet I have this clean we see that people is King and uh we have picture for the Wildlife uh how they are enjoying the backyard as well um I seen the report that uh you guys put a repeated offender I'm not a repeated offender I'm not even offender to be truthful because I didn't do anything other than clean my property when I was calling by the County I come in here I spoke with somebody here in person they recommend me to get attorney I went to the fdp at the fdp they said that the county did something without the permitting and then at this point I get my attorney and I'm trying to resolve I invest a lot of money in the b in between attorneys Engineers um environmentalist and uh I would like that this application be considered because um it's been a great loss for me I put a lot of investment in this property and then I would like to be able to enjoy it this is everything that I have thank you thank you sir Mr loggin or Mr rener did you want to come speak hello I'm Greg Loggins I'm the developer of uh Harbor Point back in 1990 uh 89 and speaking to the public interest I know technically commercial is different than uh the public interest here however I think we really need to consider what is the public interest whether it's technical or not let's use some common sense I I own one property next to it north of it um when we went in and developed Harper point we had the original uh permit to get it drained and the way we had that was it was better for the property better for the public when we did that it was basically the whole property was a garbage dump we had people out there throwing Vehicles trash and everything we came in and cleaned up a property almost 20 acres that was getting basically $7,000 a year in taxes and now it's probably getting five or $600,000 a year in taxes but part of that was the public interest was one widening that canal and St John's and everybody else agreed that that was better for it unfortunately had we had one person fight it and the market turned into where I couldn't afford to be able to do the dredging but in that part of it was that we needed another area for manatees to be able to come in live and Thrive and along with dolphin and any other W Wildlife because currently there's two places for them to come in and that are commercial there's marker 24 which is a great place then a marina that my father originally developed missan Marina back in the 70s and so now anytime manatees come in they got to go into where boats are stored you got anti Fallon paint and everything else in there but Harbor Point was a safe haven for the manatee to be able to come in there and be able to be protected from boats and everything else there's one other small little Canal pass there that they can come in but all the way from 520 on all the way down there's not a lot of safe places other than the river so uh all the agencies agreed and they thought that this was a better thing not only to dredge that but dredged my property that's North that is uh um not as open as what they've done when they came in there they pulled all the roots out of my manatees or my manatees the mangroves and so um the county did that back about a year ago and it exposed how nasty that part of the canal was people had dumped tires uh all kinds of different things that were in there and when they pulled that back it was almost golden uh the water was a a weird collar but when this was all dredged up and it was all dredged out now the water's flowing a little bit better but it could be a lot nicer and also could be afford to be dredg to give a little bit more retention area for the water thank you thank you sir uh that is the end of the cards um commissioner Goodson um could I ask Mrs Ranka a question please can you that would that be very helpful thank you did I understand correctly that I think it was the day before Thanksgiving uh a code enforcement officer came out and spoke to your client and said you know you might want to stop till you get this all settled is that the correct statement that's what is in the staff report I have not talked to Mr cook directly oh you have not spoke to who Mr cook he was the code enforcement officer all right well then let me ask this is there any truth the statement I just asked her uh yes sir Mr cook was on site he's here in the audience if you'd like to speak with him yeah please bring him up okay Kim just be patient I'm coming right back to you than morning Mr cook can you tell us what you observed when you went out there that day and it was the day before thanks G correct that's correct please tell us what you observed so we we received a complaint and um about 3:00 in the afternoon um we I went out to the site um there was dredging ensuing at the time um Mr reninger had uh allowed me on his property I was able to take photographs um the uh there was no turbidity up I asked him to put up the turbidity I asked if he had any permits to uh proceed he uh said he had permits from the FD which he did not and then um I asked him to cease and assist uh until we could find out what permits were available um at that time he um he said that he would he said he would put up the turbidity I believe you that he did do that but as I was leaving the site the uh uh excavator continued and it continued to dredge did you madam did you go back the Monday after the weekend of Thanksgiving did you go back I went back um I can't tell you exactly what time it was uh within uh very short order I went back um and uh to see if they he had continued um I asked spoke with um neighbors and said that a great bit of uh debris had flown down into the adjacent Canal there's a subdivision at the end where this canal um that he has opened up it was an original Canal he opened up an additional Port that was a wetland that would filter a lot of this that they were complaining about um at that point that small area is only the width basically of the canal that was existing um at that's where everything has moved down and gone across the neighbors were saying that there was a a great B debris all right please just have a seat in case we need you again we don't mind Madam can I ask I guess the most important question I would want to ask you would be this if you've lived in Florida any time you know anything about Wetlands anything about water and a code enforcement comes out to your client says you might want to assist until we make sure you got permits why did he not do that that is a question you'd have to ask Mr renar but this is not code enforcement sir this is trying to fix a problem and trying to be compliant we'll have the code enforcement coming up but this is trying to show a public benefit to allow us to permit no we wouldn't be here if he had stopped and got permits correct would you agree to that I I agree sir thank you okay but we're not trying to prove public awareness or something but if you get if you know anything about water and you've been in Florida anytime at all and mangr you surely don't touch that unless you have the proper permits which are multitudes of permits correct would you agree which is what we're trying to do now is after the fact you're trying to do it correct yes sir you're in construction you know that happens often ah when you mess with these people and the fines they give you today it don't happen often I I understand I understand after put up trabity barriers and you stay within your limits okay Madam chair that's all I have thank you um I know Miss Ranka was going to ask for additional time you guys willing to give her additional time here at the end before we just two minutes two minutes ma'am um find where I need to be okay thank you uh again this isn't code enforcement this is asking for a public interest determination so permits can be obtained may not have been the smartest thing to do um it appears that work was done by the county some sort of mess was made there was some water that came through and cleared it up I'm not here to judge my client I'm here to try to ask for permission to move forward for permitting which would also cure the problems that FTE has with uh Bard County uh this is to be compliant um as you've known with uh the Republican governments that have come in they want compliance they don't want punitive actions and we are trying to have the ability to apply for all the permits even coming all the way down to the state um and county level if you look at the application there are two pages of justifications for this public interest determination um improve water quality flow Recreation uh manatees Dolphins you've heard from the public so this is just to allow the permitting to go forward to cure the problem um there are reasons here the staff report really didn't even talk about the justifications all they talked about is their interpretation of the code if County staff had wanted this to go forward if this County Commission wants it to go forward there are ways to interpret your code that allows it and that is what I wanted to talk with them about before going through this hearing because you can impact Wetlands for navigation you can impact Wetlands for dredging you can do all of these things under your code under your comp plan but it starts with manity protection plan and if we don't have this public interest determination we can't get any permits moving forward so with that I ask that you approve the public interest determination as requested as this board has done many many times before um thank you for your time thank you thank You' commission Goodson sir staff what what's going to happen if we don't approve this if the request is not approved then we would require restoration well I should let me take that back it'll go to the special magistrate and then it'll be legis I don't know if that's the right word determined through the special magistrate what will happen which we would request would be restoration of the wetlands and and Madam chair please um then depending on the ruling there then would the client be able to come back then after he satisfies all those problems asking for what he's asking for we'd be right back where we started except for we be doing it before the fact instead of after the fact because you again our interpretation is that the requested activity is contrary to the comprehensive plan the man plan all that stuff so we would be sitting back here with a restored Shoreline for consideration at that point okay thank you chair commissioner Goodson it's your District sir I um um I'm not going to agree on what the applicant wants because I feel like that you know he was given an opportunity to stop by a county official saying let's make sure your permits are all in line and he didn't and he kept going uh if you remember we have the same issue on uh North bouard on hog Valley filling Wetlands so I don't know if he understands or he doesn't seem to care or you know I'm going to do it then beg forgiveness at the end but I will not agree to postpone this it's or to let it go any further that's my motion okay sir I have a motion on the table commissioner DEA you have a light on uh yes U Madam sh just one question for staff uh for future commissions um the PID uh is as you've mentioned many times before is for commercial use um and is not technically applicable for private use uh is that something that as we move forward potentially could be changed or is there statutory guidelines that don't allow that determination I I'm I'm I'm I'm not aware I mean we certainly going forward upon board Direction could look at comprehensive changes you for wetland policies we've done it before we've twice been in stipulated settlements over wetland policies so um you know residential and Commercial are treated differently but you know they they dredge their personal residential property so when you look at the uses that are allowed for Wetlands it's for Access septic and primary structure and then you could if you had a mangrove Shoreline perhaps do like an elevated Pier or walkway to enjoy the shoreline you couldn't put any structures of course in the ditch um so it does allow that for use and access but um you know as it's written now it it's not and even if that was allowed we have the man protection plan that talks about drudging being best public interest and then also the surface water uh protection part of the comprehensive plan that talks about new drudging it does allow maintenance drudging too I'd like to say that when you talk about removing mck and clear you know and trimming up mangroves you are allowed to remove mck for maintenance you just can't widen or deepen a channel so um and you can trim mangr in accordance with d but just for clarification if there was that change and I don't obviously intend that would have to go through the a comp a comp plan change correct to be reviewed by the state and numerous AG that would be a text Amendment and then you'd also if the intent is to allow this kind of activity you would also need to address the manity protection plan and other policies within the conservation element got it thank you very much you're welcome I have a motion on the table do I have a second I'll second second by commissioner feltner all in favor to deny say yes yes sorry I all opposed passes 41 my concern 4 Z thank you M's gone my um concern with that is that if if if we would have permitted it of course it would be good I I hear a lot of people that like it but it did affect other properties and in due process of caused no harm I think the better process now is for the magistrate to hear it and figure it out so thank y'all we are going to move into item H2 commissioner Goodson this is your District again sir that one can we take we can take a five minute break after H2 okay I have no issues with this Madam chair you want to make a motion sir yes I make a motion for approval Madam motion to approve second by commissioner toaya all in favor say I I opposed passes 40 take a 5 minute break [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] the a [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] back to order we're on item i1 good morning Commissioners i1 is uh James road traffic cing it's located just east of Interstate 95 Direct ly budding State Road 528 and we're seeking the board to adopt a resolution in support of the implementation of traffic cing measures along James Road um and then delegate certain authorities to the county manager or designate execute related documents uh the request is only to approve the proposed traffic cing the county is required to consider under the uh stipulated settlement agreement and based on part a particular set of circumstances that exist on James Road uh Pur said agreement the uh proposed traffic cing was tallied from 62 responses received out of 101 eligible and effective uh respondents um the board may consider the following options approve all recommendations all traffic Comming recommendations in the report approve only certain traffic cing measures or reject all Comming uh traffic cing measures um available if there's any questions yes sir we're going to call up cards but let me clarify a few things before we do just so that we know what it is were discussing this item um at the time was was for a large number of houses now the house numbers are down and when I was asking you guys questions before there's a chance if we don't approve something today we will never see anything again because this is for traffic call me Mr danhoff I can see you're wanting to say something here uh yes the um uh the stipulated settlement that uh is uh sort of behind and driving uh bringing this item to the board at this point uh was the result of a lawsuit which took place between uh the city of coko Bard County and two land owners uh the U prior owner of this particular piece of property uh was uh was one of those uh at the time my recollection is that the two properties were both uh claiming were indicating that they were going to develop 2500 units each uh and um the um uh that the traffic counts for 2500 units substantially uh different than what we actually have today at this point where it's it's it's north of 300 I think south of 400 I forget the exact number uh so it's a sign significantly lower traffic count however the uh the inherent uh safety uh situation for James Road is uh virtually unchanged from what it was at the time so as a part of that stipulated settlement uh to address uh uh increased U expected increased traffic uh uh crashes and incidents along James Road with the increase in traffic uh it was proposed uh and included in the stipulated settlement to uh consider traffic calming uh measures to be installed by and at the cost of the developer um and public involvement was to be uh included in that effort and uh so we've done that now today and that brings us to where we are right now thank you sir um we were making negotiations about some ideas for the traffic calming and um my my head wrapped around with the safety I was trying to figure out a way to get guard rails all the way down the side of the road because I'm concerned about the drop and I was informed that I'm not allowed to negotiate safety we can just do traffic calming so in the midst of this we could have done up to eight traffic calming devices I mean 10 but there was only room for eight and on those eight we could put in the guard rails so we went back and negotiated okay we we'll do this but we want you to put in enough guard rails as if there was 10 going in and they did agree to that am I correct sir that's correct commissioner so this is this is where we're at on this negotiation I'm going call cards up if you guys want to speak to it that would be wonderful to hear from you and I have oh commission do you have any questions before we get started with cards all right I have Miss Susan Rollins and then we will have Christopher Kelly hi ma'am good morning everybody I uh really appreciate uh you guys allowing me the time I was GNA make just one comment on the agenda the agenda says five minutes but you stated three minutes just a technicality hold on just a minute County attorney is this five minutes is it quasi I'm sorry quasi judicial or is this regular this is regular meeting so three minutes should apply I'm not sure where it's at 5 but um we'll we'll take a look at it it's okay don't use your time for that R that's in quasi judicial proceedings but this is not a quasi judicial proceeding this item is not ma' okay sorry um but um I really appreciate you guys taking the time and to consider um the impact to the residents of James Road I've lived there for 17 years and um recently um I have uh started walking for about the last year and I will say um um there most drivers are very courteous and they slow down when they pass you but recently and it feels like it's just within the last maybe six months or or more I um I'm noticing more traffic and I don't know if it's cuz what they're doing on 524 or um some of the construction down there but I have had people and I see them uh basically come up Cox Road go down James Road and then go back down Friday Road and so either they're avoiding 524 but I I don't know if they um are aware that they're probably going you know 100% faster than the speed limit and I've had some people pass where I could literally reach my hand out and I could touch that car and I've thought about it but I'm a good person I'm not going to do anything to hurt anybody's car but I really think that you know that area was really meant for people to walk their horses walk their dogs um ride their bikes and you know allowing an additional 400 or you know 800 people to drive through there at very high speeds um is is just not acceptable for that neighborhood and I know when I walk Rector and Raburn it's very nice and the people are going slow and they're going cautiously and um and I would prefer that for our James Road also so anyway I uh appreciate you just taking the consideration I would hope that you pick them all because I just want to slow that traffic down as much as possible so anyway that I'll uh I don't need any more time thank you ma'am M Mr Christopher Kelly how are you all today thank you very much for having me um I'm in somewhat of an opposition for all the the uh the speed bumps I think there's I think it's quite excessive I think that eight would pose a big problem for a lot of people that have heavy equipment or trailers or um likewise um I do understand that uh with the community that's coming in with the 300 homes that it does have to you know we're going to have to take that down and control that somewhat um before I moved out to my home I talked to a lot of people I'm from I'm from Vieira and we hated the chaos and we hated the control so when we made the move to Coco we we asked a lot of people that like like the the the person that just came up here and and talked to you people um that she's been here for a long time and um we wanted to come here for the peace and the Solitude and now that's somewhat disrupted uh one of the speed bumps are right next to our master bedroom so that's going to be a problem for us with the constant acceleration and de deceleration um I do understand that there's eight of them and I would like to see some of the bumps either removed or pushed away from homes that are very close to the uh close to the road enough that it would cause a disturbance to people sleeping or waking up in the morning or something like that so maybe I like I think that the eight were was is excessive um where am I going to go with this uh thinking about the other people the surrounding people on on Friday were Cox if you guys implement this big big giant um you know eight of them I feel that traffic instead of going down James is going to start it's going to take Friday and it's going to take Cox or they're going to go through Rayborn Rayborn or Rector where there's only three so I feel that those people are going to also be directly impacted more than the people that are on James and it's just going to be like a mindfield it's going to be a progression of people complaining about oh well they're they're here well I want them here and then it just kind of gets out of out of control I think that four would be better I think that eight is excessive and that's it's where I stand on it thank you thank you sir commissioner Goodson I think I'm going to like your your question sir I think that heard you a little bit thank you madam um Can can you tell me where a speed table is right now in bouard County installed on the road none that I am aware of on County Roads commissioner can you tell me one it's on a private road somewhere in I I don't know off the top of my head I can tell yeah I'm sorry y'all can't talk out there well there's a big difference is there not a a difference between a speed hump and a speed table the there is uh so these are not uh speed humps uh as uh was just mentioned a speed table has a gentle 6ot slope a 10t flat area and then another 6t uh gentle slope with a maximum of 3 in in height so it's very gentle now what is a speed bump in height I I did not bring that uh with me uh but it it's more of a within about a foot or foot and a half you go up and over right I don't recall the uh the height off the top of my head commissioner okay thank you madam chair thank you sir real quick on that too so um you kind of explained what the devices were are we obligated when we do this to do all eight if you guys come back and determine it's less we just negotiate it to get up to eight correct so commissioner we're not obligated but the eight actually is ideal to maintain the uh traffic speed that we're trying to uh the ideal traffic speed we're trying to get to in fact uh for the approximately one mile stretch uh you would need 10 speed tables to adequately do it however because of existing driveway locations we had to work with the consultant to figure out uh the best uh spacing uh without starting to change driveway location so uh ideally again there would be 10 we went with eight because that is what would fit in the existing conditions thank you sir Caitlyn castar then Cynthia Olen you'll be next ma'am good morning um it's kathen can I've been a special education teacher for 20 years in bevard county and I must say moving out to Coco has been a dream for Christopher and I we love it it's very peaceful um the one or two or three people speeding should be held accountable um I think instead of speed bumps maybe stop signs down James Road um would be a better alternative I'm thinking of the wear and tear on my vehicle going over eight speed bumps the brakes um the ball joints the shocks um it just it's a little excessive in my opinion and Chris and I spend Christopher and I spend a lot of time um out in the front lawn and in the driveway and it's very peaceful we don't really have issues on that street other than a few people speeding it we love it out there it's a very peaceful Road very Serene Road that's why we left Vieira and came to Coco so thank you for listening to me appreciate it thank you ma'am Cynthia Olen and then Tom Sullivan you'll be next sir um I hate talking but anyways my name is Cynthia Olen I live in unincorporated bouard County in the affected area near the windward preserve development and I have um here's a copy of that a72 that anyways um please vote no on the James road traffic calming devices because a developer Taylor Morris did not meet the legal requirements according to a72 section 3 Item B that item says consideration of speed hump installation shall not occur unless the following conditions are met approval of minimum of 85% of the benefited residents or 75% of the affected area residents plus the benefited area residents Taylor Morrison used the results from 101 traffic calming surveys that they sent out to show they had 84% approval of the benefited and affected areas out of the 101 surveys they sent out they only received 62 responses if if all 62 voted yes it would be about 62% of the 101 surveys sent out not the 84% they claimed the developer is using percentages instead of actual numbers this is misleading how many yes votes did they actually get an a72 is definition of affected area residents are as follows the affected area includes the benefited area in those residents who must Traverse the speed humps to access their residences that's the only people that they used in their survey this also includes those residents who are adjacent to the roads which do not have existing speed bumps and which would be used as a bypass route by traffic avoiding the proposed speed bumps Taylor Morrison did not include all of the required affected area residents in their survey as required by a72 according to Bard County's aosu definition affected area all the residents of Friday Acres Grove Acres the ranch Dale Hurst Ranch Hidden Pines ranet shade tree Estates Robertson Estates Grecian Estates Craig Road and hidden Road should have been included in the developers James Road calming survey but were not Taylor Morrison intentionally left out these residents on July 25th Taylor Morrison conducted a public meeting which all the residents that attended were vly against the speed tables this is why they limited their survey to the immediate area of James Road if these eight speed tables are installed on James Road almost all the traffic will be funneled down Friday Road this means all the residents on every street and subdivision must use Friday road to exit their street will be affected please vote no Mr Tom Sullivan good morning Madam chair Commissioners uh Tom Sullivan with the greaty Robinson Law Firm on behalf of Taylor Morrison appreciate your time this morning I have a couple folks here with me uh from Taylor Morrison Fred Miller and uh Jeff Johnson as well as Gil Ramirez with LTG our traffic expert just wanted to say we have to answer any questions that you have um we've worked very closely with your staff for several months now uh appreciate their their input we feel like this is a good uh solution and complies with all the requirements including what was set forth in the settlement agreement and we would appreciate your support to move forward today and again happy to answer any questions with the team that we have thank you thank you sir please yes sir thank you mad chair the last lady that mentioned all the other subdivisions did you did you U solicit a vote from them or did you just go James Road we did um what we did commissioner and we and again I think your staff can answer some of these questions because we work closely with them but we had a meeting well really the process started several months ago back in the beginning of this year with the traffic comic study that we' gone back and forth with your staff um ultimately we set out set out invitations for a meeting that was held on July 25th um and that the folks that were invited to that meeting did not include some of the folks James Road that's why there was a separate survey that was sent out to those folks and let to let them solicit the input that they had but we sent the it was very iterative process with your staff on who the notices were sent to and we complied with everything that we that we were supposed to do a question for you yeah if that be the case why would you need eight on James Road but yet re Rector and rer has only three yeah on the technical items commissioner I would defer to our traffic why would that be true mark Ren and Rector has the same mileage they're the same miles they got three but you're going to have eight commissioner I didn't uh conduct the traffic study on this I'd ask LTG uh to come up yeah Gil can you come up here please okay and um my next question would be are you going to permit these tables speed tables under the same criteria as this here that indicates speed bump um I'm glad you asked that commissioner so ao7 2 is not applicable in this case this is not a speed hump this is a speed table uh as well as there's other things involved as well uh textured pavement reduction of travel lean widths and vibratory EDG line marking it is the reason why we've brought this to the board uh with a resolution for your consideration okay thank you now do you know Raven and Rector sir yes okay is there not they're about the same distance wouldn't you say as James yes I think identical pretty much right isn't there about three on each one of those right why is there three speed humps there and eight speed tables on James so the way that this project worked is we picked a specific design speed and we de sized the project to meet that and a speed table and a speed hump are not the same thing as has already been discussed so a speed table is supposed to be gentler on your car it's slower it's wider and so the transition period is is different and so it is possible to speed over them if they're not spaced appropriately so the guidelines that we used are from uh Federal Highway from ashto which is a an a Association of folks who specialize in design of of these types of improvements and we use their recommendations to apply them to this project specifically can you tell me where the near speed table is in Central Florida in Central Florida don't be careful CU I'm going to tell you the next say Your Design must not be working too well I didn't design the nearest speed table in Central Florida and I can't recall where so we're going to be the first in the world no not at all FL dot has been installing speed tables in various places I just where would I find one find one where would I ride over a speed table how about I will get back to you on that with some locations I can guarantee you we have them I just this is not something I was PR ask just a quick question aren't they typically in intersections they typically where the tables you're coming to a it might not be a four-way stop it might be two-way the other way and so typically is that right a lot of the newer applications right with DOT moving towards a safer system for all users they're starting to deploy speed tables on crosswalks using raised crosswalks I will say that we're designing several of them in Daytona Beach as part of a safe routes to school project because of their efficiency and you stated Madam chairman you stated that you were trying to designate a certain speed for James Road correct by installing eight what is that speed going to be it's 35 mil hour we're trying to to lower existing traffic to match the posted speed limit that's our goal and 35 is posted now okay okay all right thank you sir so much I just you're very welcome if there's anything else I can do I'll be more than happy to answer your questions Madam chair if I me I think I can answer at least one of the questions um which was why are these only being looked at or a different number being looked at along James Road that settlement agreement that's driving all this that only required the developer uh at the time to install traffic calming devices along James Road exclusively so that's all they were required to look at for the installation of the devices um it required that input from Property Owners along James Road be solicited regarding the location and placement of those devices we did go beyond just along James Road and ask more than that um so so all of these apply to James Road and the requirement is from the settlement agreement so this isn't developer initiated this is actually a condition that was placed upon the developer predecessor saying you don't get to build unless you satisfy County and the concerns of the County area residents uh and they agreed to that now ultimately it's up to County what and whether traffic calming measures are required but this isn't something that developer wants to do voluntarily it's something they have to do if we require it pursuant to the agreement thank you question to to you may I Madam chair so that being said can I if I was if if uh district one said let's put in three right now to see how they work that would be okay you could do all or none or less than what's required there with the only caveat I would give is I would want some engineer to say that if you do something other than what's proposed in this plan that an engineer say that that it would be safe and and functional and accomplish something so I don't know you know if the board just selected a number I would want some engineer to look at that and staff to vet that right let me askk correct you could you could put in three and watch it for six months and then decide if that threes not put them in the right locations or whatever they have picked the right locations then up them to eight or 10 I think one of the other limitations is the way the stipulated settlement agreement is written it is um a limitation on them to be able to proceed with any additional construction uh or further construction activities until all traffic cing devices is uh complete I would defer to uh the county attorney on that but I think that is a a limitation that we kind of need to give them Direction now so that they can move forward they can do some things they can do side activity they just can't get a certificate of completion from the city of Coco for their site work and they can't go vertical until they have completed whatever traffic calming is required the caveat on this and again help me with this if I'm if it's not correct is that if we do nothing as far as telling them they have to do something there's a chance that they can do what they want to do anyway and we won't get a say after that correct that's well effectively if we say no no to traffic coming we are letting them build it is uh within the city of Coco's jurisdiction uh our issue is on the road itself and so our Leverage is the stipulated settlement agreement and do we want to uh do traffic Hing as uh the two gentlemen came up uh you know from Taylor Morrison had presented we have been working with them but it is their engineering assessment and our traffic team has uh reviewed it and are in agreement that it makes sense Madam chair if I may just to if the board were to say no traffic calming is required today uh Mark's absolutely right they could proceed in with their development in Coco but they would have then satisfied their obligation under the agreement if the board later decides for example after the units are occupied and the traffic is actually on the streets if the board then decides the traffic calming is desired there the developer would no longer be required to pay for it that's that's the distinction it would be on the county at that point because these are County Roads developments in city of Coco a quick question on this um County attorney so let's say that this was put off till the next meeting we're still within a time period Then correct yeah there's no um uh moving it to say the December 3 meeting wouldn't meaningfully act anything because as I said they can proceed with their site activities now they just can't obtain certificate of completion I'd be concerned if you started to move it too far it might unreasonably delay uh their ability to complete their site work and things like that but Taylor Morrison they can they can say otherwise but I don't think a tabling to December 3 would uh would meaningfully impact that I could be wrong I don't know how close they are to completion of site work and pulling vertical building permits so if Mr Sullivan wants to speak to that CU we're um if if this if I was going to continue I'd probably want to bump it up a meeting because it's the first time the Public's really got to have discussions on it I do if You' come up sir I do have concern though that we're going to miss an opportunity to try to make the road a little safer that road is thin the ditch is so deep it's just it's just very concerning to me but there's really not much we can do about that but sir if we this got tabled till the next meeting because I I think just to being the first time in the community and this has been a hot conversation for over a year yeah Madam chair I mean to to be candid about it I mean we we have a site contractor that's sort of mobilized and ready to go with the expectation that we would do the improvements that we've talked and worked with your staff on for some time so delaying that's not a great result for us to be candid um it would we have a lot of other site work that we need to do um on site so um you know we can continue to do that as as Mr Richardson said but it's not an ideal situation I mean I think um these technical issues are technical issues and we've worked really closely with your staff to come this is not something that we just sort of came up with spur the moment with these eight speed tables and I know um commissioner pitchet your office has been involved with that too I mean this has been very um detailed and well vetted um so if we were to delay it um you I'm not just not sure you know where where that really takes us um we did we have had the public input through the survey process we've had we've had um the public meeting in July so um understand there's some questions and sort of which is the best option but we think the best option is is really the one that's been presented to you so hopefully that answers answers your questions but okay I I don't disagree with that I just I've I've heard commissioner Goodson's questions about not understanding necessarily the difference in this and the bumps and that might give everybody a little a bit of time to absorb that my guess is that at the next meeting the next regular meeting it would probably be approved so um we're going to finish the cards and see what the commission wants but um yeah question yes sir um when you say you have a contractor mobilized right to put in the speed tables right we we have we've been communicating with them on with the expectation this would be what work would be done right so that would be I would assume an asphalt contractor correct the it's it's I can tell you it's Brier that's Bri's doing your site work yeah but they I don't know if they're going to do do they do they the prime contractor so that yeah but I don't know if they're going to do the asphalt I don't care who does it I'm just I was just curious uh you you would think Brier would do the when he's Paving the streets he'd put the tables in then because the asphalt's on the side at the same time but maybe he's planning on bringing asphalt over and doing them separately yeah and I can't and I don't want to say too much about that just cuz I'm not in the middle of that I'm sure I'm sure you can appreciate but just this has been something with this with regard to these traffic calming that's been a focus because because of the agreement and so I think that's why we've sort of front-ended it as something that needs to get squared away so that's that's why I say it that way but yeah thank you question uh just to be clear uh you don't care your develop the developer doesn't care whether there's 15 speed humps or tables or zero you just want a resolution is that what you are looking for to be clear essentially yes okay yeah thank you thank you thank you Mr you get you like I have a couple questions but I'll wait until after the cards okay okay Mr Wade Olson thanks way ol so uh couple things I wanted to mention too is um first of all all of the surveys and everything else went out to the people primarily in the James Road area but as we know and as as has been mentioned that once these caling devices go in human nature as it is people are going to avoid that and they're going to go up and down Friday road so everybody who lives off of the Friday Road area are the ones that are actually going to be impacted by this development so during the survey it mentions um or the concerns were um speed and safety and nothing mention at all about the quantity of the traffic and that's the elephant in the room is the quantity of the traffic and so um another thing too is um speed limits right these roads have speed limits so caling devices for calming traffic for safety maybe but for Speed maybe not speed limits are speed limits okay so and then another thing too is out of the eight uh we drove up there yesterday and took some pictures and out of the eight areas that are designated for the cing devices for those straddle driveways so um and I'm sure that would be a concern to the uh individuals the residents so um four of the eight straddle the U driveway so it's just it's not a really clear picture as far as the the map is um but if you drive there you'll see exactly what it is um and again the elephant in the room like I mentioned before is the actual volume of the traffic that we're expected to see going up and down Friday Road and so if you're a commuter in the morning that traffic light there in front of the uh the Flying J you're going to be sitting there for a while if you have all these people living there so with that extra density and the extra traffic uh it's it's going to be um um a big concern for everybody who lives in the area off of Friday road which everybody seems to have forgotten about okay so um State my point thank you very much for your time thank you sir Rick he finger then Carl xline you'll be next sir Rick he finger 2000 Juniper Drive Coco Florida district one I live in uh Dale Hurst ranches um I'm off a Friday Road um this this has been going on a long time I mean the traffic caling it but it all has to do with what that legal requirement is I think somebody pointed that out so really the people that get the vote according to the legal are the are the Property Owners not the residents the property owners along James Road the question is there was a survey was done um didn't get a whole lot of response but the survey included a lot of people that don't have a legal standing I think I think I'll use the term legal standing and Morris can can correct me if I get the the law wrong here so the residents are anybody who's commonly in the house right I don't know where the survey went did it go just to the houses the properties did it go to the was it addressed to the property owner or was it addressed to the property resident oh no that's going to get legally so I think if you you move forward now and you didn't meet that legal requirement there's going to be a challenge I think there's going to be a challenge anyway but there this thing is this thing has been a mess from the beginning it's been going on a long time too I was up here a while back it started as one permanent as the right of way that's really where all the traffic study was done I got information that shows the the staff talking to the county and the St well it's staff is County County was involved city of Coco was involved the Tor Morrison guys the LTD or LTG or whatever the hell they are they're involved and I see some of the going on back and forth well and it is really all about traffic it's interesting because the traffic study kind of cook the books there a little somebody from the county said let's move 5% of the anticipated traffic off of Friday Road and push it down James Road because we think those people will decide coming out that development oh I think what I'll do is I'll take James Road go to Cox cross 524 go to 520 to get on 95 that was the justification the logic this thing has got a lot of stinky stuff in it but the big point is the county is the one responsible not not Taylor Morrison you're the ones who are going to get sued if the the proper notification you better make sure that's true you better make sure it went to the property owners before you make a decision so I really think this needs to be pushed and for the other thing this is unfinished business when is when was it new business this has not been on the agenda the whole year there's been some related stuff the meeting that that Taylor Morrison supposedly had for everybody did you you wonder what the title of the flyer was it didn't say anything about traffic coming I was sitting there I've been waiting because I've been doing digging this has been misrepresented there's guard rails on the speed Humps by the way people that was not in the survey thank you thank you Carl xline and then Miss Jennifer Thoren theen hello my name is Carl xline 4375 James Road I live right off of James uh you had a lot of good speakers today um you're right there's a 20ft ditch that uh I've seen a couple cars go in once you go in you don't go out um I'd be interested to know what the traffic engineer had for the distance between the uh speed humps or whatever they're called now um just so we know you said there's eight so are they equidistant are they how far are they separated and um the other concern I have is is just about James and all the dump trucks all the heavy equipment everything is either going to go down Cox Road or it's going to go down Friday road so I mean that that's that's a lot of traffic of a lot of big equipment of course Friday Road has a ditch on either side of it right so I'm not sure I have any answers for you but there's quite a bit of issues with increasing you know the population by 400 houses which could be 800 people right potentially so uh or 800 cars I should say so I I don't have an answer but I wanted to try to make sure you guys are aware that you know the city of Coco's got new Revenue coming in right but now you're responsible the County's responsible for all the traffic going in and out so that's all I have thank you Mr xline let me give this to you to sit with it it shows the proposal just so you have it for later yes sir Jennifer theen Darion good morning my name is Jen thean 2790 Pine ly Lane I've been working on this issue for over 20 years 20 years I have been diligent in working with uh traffic uh the county and and and worked to um to put forward the this idea you know for the traffic calming I walk that road and I have been nearly hit numerous times I can tell you about a traffic table because we do have them in bard County we matter of fact have them within probably 6 miles of James Road it and the actual name of the street is Washington Avenue it is near a intersection with stop signs and that sort of thing the reason that we're having discussions about speed table and and speed hump and the difference uh speed tables are to uh to to uh keep it safe we're not having anybody launching off of a speed hump into the ditch that was a very important part that agreement talked about Consulting the people that live along James Road it didn't talk about six dozen other places or streets the agreement uh is to address this the uh the traffic and the the amount of speeding that goes on that road is just insane the two traffic studies that were done the average speed on the eastern part of the road was 46 and 48 M an hour at two separate locations okay which is pretty excessive for a 35 mph Road there has been great deal of effort going between the developer and the county to come up with a design that is safe that is that is going to work that is going to maintain that speed somewhere around the the 35 mph speed limit those speed tables are also designed so that it's going to keep things safe for fire trucks and other rescue vehicles um I think that uh that looking at the agreement that everything has been done to keep this uh sensible and safe so that people can enjoy the area it's a rural area and and people ride walk and do all sorts of things out on that road and with the increased traffic if this isn't done now we're going to miss out worked way too hard way too long to have this H for for it not to go through I ask you to please consider all the surveys that went out for the people that live along James Road that are going to drive on across those speed tables I ask you to approve this design thank you thank you ma'am Miss Katie Delany good morning Commissioners um I commissioner pitet I appreciate that you mentioned to possibly move this to the December 3rd meeting I think that it that that is appropriate and I appreciate that um one thing that I've noticed through this process is that the the community input um I feel like there needs to be more Community input because like you guys had said before um this is our shot to get this right and um the community meeting that was held wasn't necessarily uh marketed in the way that I think that it should have been a lot of people were very confused when they got to the meeting they didn't know it was going to be about traffic and that was solely what it was going to be about um and like others have said the uh many of the people on James Road were not notified and if they would have known what this meeting was about they would have been there um so and the other thing I would like to mention is the lane shrinking in this area uh will be it's it's not the most ideal thing because there's a lot of horse trailers there's a lot of trailers um in that area and a lot of big trucks and we all have seen what Clear Lake Road has turned into and we don't want this to be the next Clear Lake Road so I'm I'm asking that we go ahead and put the pause on this and like the county attorney said he thinks that this you know is appropriate and won't won't be too of a hard time on um the contractor so uh yeah thank you Mr Delany don't leave just yet and I'm going to try not throw you on the spot because it's it's a lot of new information for you in some areas if if we make that decision to do that you're going to have to move very quickly in a small amount of time to try to get input um and I I think you're going to need to probably sit down with rhen bridge and Mr denninghoff and and just get some extra data just so you know again I I've been through it and I probably would approve it because it's it's probably the best package we're going to get with having to come back with a Fortune of dollars later trying to fix something and I know you are too you live close to the area I just don't want anybody to die there I agree if I could have got a guard rail all the way down would have done it but they told me I'm not even allowed to ask for that and we're sneaking in some extra guardrails so just so that you have all that data so that you can um go and get all the information you need but I I don't necessarily disagree that this isn't the first time that a lot of people are hearing it from this angle so again if I was sitting here I would move it to the next meeting just to allow them to absorb a little bit because a lot of times most of the conflict we're having is people not getting good information and moving off of the emotional stuff going on Facebook which isn't fair to them and if I believed a lot of that stuff myself I'd be pretty mad myself at our our public representation so um I I know you'll do all that I commit to doing that for sure I know you do thank you ma'am thank you thank you that is the end of our cards um I have a list here and you're not John toaya but the name's coming up as John toaya no no that's was an old one go ahead Mr felner Pat Uh Chief volter um somebody mentioned fire earlier and I know that speed humps versus tables uh these things are not necessarily um good for fire equipment so can you know eight speed tables uh along that road um can you can you tell us what that would do to uh ambulances and tankers the general rule of thumb for a speed tables are a little newer but I know the speed humps that we do have around the county the general rule of thumb is you add 10 seconds to a response time for every speed hump and the overall wear and tear on the vehicles over its life I mean I think we just spent $700,000 on some Vehicles right they're not cheap thank you so yeah absolutely our equipment's not cheap and uh we don't uh we definitely don't get it every day so we do have to take care of it and make sure we slow down to that appropriate speed um but yeah we all know what the speed humps do to everyone's vehicle as well thank you I don't believe I have any more lights okay commission um I am going to ask that we could maybe go ahead and move this to the first meeting in December I'll second that okay well can you make the motion for me I'm sorry I'll make a motion that we Mo it to the December 3rd meeting is that right yes okay do you have a second is that a regular light sir yes okay good Mr Taya thank you madam chair um it's Unique that we have the representative from the uh developer coming here and saying we don't what we don't really care what the answer is just give us an answer so we can move forward and I completely get that I understand the mobilization and I'm going to I'm going to ask uh as a uh contractor over here uh commissioner Goodson um I think that's a pretty fair request by these folks but you understand the mobilization of of heavy equipment and and let me let me understand is do we need to make a decision now or is this a fair request from the developers perspective to you know do it sooner than later well I've been out there on James Road and I've watched his development right now he's in a clearing and dirt moving business then comes sewer and water then comes concrete and Roads and asphalt now what I don't understand about him to do this uh speed table you're going to require asphalt and asphalt spreader but are you going to move it all the way out of Brier out of Orlando over here for you know 20 tons of asphalt that I don't understand so can you answer that for me sir because usually you would do these speed tables uh at the end of the job when you're laying asphalt at least that's my opinion uh Fred Miller uh with Taylor Morrison 431 North Summerland Avenue downtown Orlando um so to your point yes right now they're doing uh clearing and Grading and then they're going to start doing ponds and pipe and so we have time before we're ever cutting roads in or doing any sort of Paving and asphal but the stipulated settlement agreement required that those improvements you know the the the the language we were going to do it for the benefit of the community as soon as possible whatever they want if they want zero tables we're fine with zero if they want eight we're fine with eight you asked for uh guard rail we added the guard rail uh I think the design we heard that they wanted it tapered to actually provide a little bit more safety from a fall uh guardrail at so we are indifferent except to make it to to adhere to what the SE stipulated settlement agreement required uh and which says traffic cing and so we're now debating on whether or not a traffic hump is the same as a traffic table and which one is better or worse for traffic overall just Community good good feeling and obviously wearing cars to us as long as we're able to continue as as as we see and obviously we have a lot of Machinery out there and so we wanted to do it before if you want to table it and make it uh later in the development cycle to make sure that the improvements are exactly what the community want we I mean we're willing to post a bond we're willing to uh put money in an escro account and have you figure out what you truly want what the community truly wants we just want the community be ble to continue continue putting our pipe in continuing to get towards completion and then obviously do what the community wants so holding off to the next meeting is not a big fact it's not a it's not a big issue it's just in my life in my from my purview I'm seeing tables no tables or something a mixture thereof and so I don't know what the next hearing gives you in all of that because we've worked with staff pretty closely so I think you have enough information to make a good decision today but if you feel that you need to take that time no it doesn't stop us and it's not going to be the end of the world but it's you have everything I think you need to make one of those three decisions I think what we have here is you know we've never let's put this way I've been in the county my entire life I've never heard of a speed table I've heard of speed humps well there if you come to Central Florida they're all up and down every grid pattern Road TR to stay out Orlando because they to slow every I know you don't I know most people here don't really want to come to downtown Atlanta see I think these people are the same way they speed humps but I can tell you the speed tables are by far the best from a impact to your car it's everything he said it's a lower rise you have a little bit of farther time to actually have a have a a transition and speed but again if the community doesn't want it we sure we have it I'm sure we want it it's just that but I think you want it I I think the community long term is going to want something there okay does that answer your question um commissioner toaya I think so but I'm more concerned with your opinion than than than his opinion my opin would be let the man do it table it for one more meeting bring an asphalt taker over here next week after that votee for it let him do it thank you okay and you know what no no wonder whatever happens there's going to be a group of people that aren't going to like it there's going to be a group that loves it but we have to make the best decision for the the taxpayers and the people that live there for their safety overall so I'm confident um commissioner Delaney at that point will be able to make that decision so um you're going have some people really mad at you but some people are can to cheer you on too but that's life as a commissioner thank you sir let's have a motion on the table to table it do I have a second it I'll second it I have a second it all in favor say I I oppose passes 40 will come to the next meeting ma'am all right we are moving into item J1 morning Commissioners item J1 is coming from the TDC it's a request to approve the marketing support Grant recommendations uh which include 44 projects that would get uh $85,000 worth of marketing support Commissioners I have two cards on this does anybody want to comment before I call the speakers sir yes uh I had some I have a motion here coming up not on this uh but something very closely related contact my office and I'd made a poor assumption my assumption is that we had appropriated funds to the TDC and the TDC used those funds for generic marketing purposes when I talk about generic marketing purposes I'm come to the Space Coast or you see the Billboards up there with an astronaut a rocket going off they were not used for specific purposes in other words come to The Bard Renaissance Festival that would be a specific purpose not a general purpose we do that through direct Appropriations here when I inquired about this I was completely wrong and uh we do spend uh marketing dollars on specific purposes I found uh one right now that we had spent that's currently on this list that we'd already spent $111,000 on another one that we'd spent $4,600 on that did not come out of a direct appropriation uh from from this board so the motion I I I would like is no additional marketing funds will be spent on cultural and sports events beyond what is individually awarded by The Bard County uh commission so uh that is something that has no impact on what we're going to discuss here in a minute the $865,000 this just would mean it would not decrease the amount of dollars that are spent on marketing it would just be used for uh generic uh marketing purposes so that's that's the motion uh before we get to that if that's okay Madam chair did you want to make that motion now sir are you waiting um sure uh to make a motion no additional marketing funds will be spent on cultural and sports events be beyond what is individ individually awarded by The Bard County uh Board of County Commissioners question Madam chair commissioner Goodson you w then commissioner Felder you're next okay um commissioner Taya why why this is is there something that they spent money that you don't agree with or is this just another way to to to change change it or something tell me why Madam chair um first of all this would not change the overall marketing if if it was a million dollars it would still be a million dollars uh what the intent behind this is that all individual marketing uh for Grants would come through this board um so again there would be no change to the total dollar amount let's assume we in here um there's a whole list of Grants here I'm just taking the top one off this was not mentioned here the trop uh Thunder on Coco Beach right if if we go ahead and and award them $50,000 uh that's fair but what I would see unfair is if before receiving that $50,000 they had benefited from $220,000 of individual marketing that had already uh come out of the TDC this is something that has and is currently happening right now not Tropic not not the thunder on Cocoa Beach but another one Peter question if that scenario played out like to like commissioner to said then would you not would your office not say okay you've already got 20 so you only have 30 left correct sir yeah we we would only Market the amount that was awarded by the board even though they might have got 20 up front well we would subtract yeah would subract that amount from so what is this going to gain so we we we just went Madam chair we just went through this with a public uh uh interest determination right whether it was before the fact or whether it was after the fact right so what happens if we for instance decide that one of these is not worthy of receiving a fund for one reason or another and we've already marketed dollars before that how do we then how do we then subtract that amount if it's not awarded in the first place again the this is you know there's dates here that the applicants have the ability to apply a year in advance they know when many of these festivals are planned years and years in advance this just gives the authority to the board to make these decisions and and and not uh specifically uh Administration we're making these decisions right here you're up Sir go ahead can I ask a question of Peter um yes sir Peter this motion today what what would that change that that you're doing today um it would just mean that we would wait for the board's decision before we used any uh any events in our marketing is is are there events that are being marketed now that this would we did do some marketing for some events that you know were coming up in the you know in November so um we did spend some dollars on that yes sir so passing this today would mean that some of those events coming up here in the in the near term would have those dollars subtracted from what have been allocated they would yeah anything that had been already allocated will subtract from their award I don't disagree with with commissioner tobas proposal because I think all of this should be approved by the board of County Commissioners we always have and so I I think it's a good proposal let the the board sign off on it or just if if something's come comes up we had that one problem with the gentleman with this tax returns so I think this board has to be the ones responsible the buck stops with us Mr Richardson do you have a new light on sir yes Madam chair thank you um I I think this is closely related to the item before the board it can be considered now but just procedurally I'm going to suggest that you take the cards and then entertain both motions after the speakers are heard Fair okay thank you thank thank you all right we're going to put that motion on hold Mr Chuck Sheridan thank you madam chair um for the last three days I've been one of the judges at the National Kidney foundation's Rick zic surfing comp competition I was asked by one of the organizers who just gave birth 12 days ago that I speak this morning on their behalf she's out there helping with the tear down and cleanup uh she sent me a text this morning said the main point for today is that they table or extend the approval of the new sports Grant application until the Commissioners new Commissioners are in place or the next meeting this is the first time in 15 years we did not receive grant money for our vent we bring in thousands of out of County contestants and Spectators who stay in the hotels and promote the area I've judged now this is me again I have Jud judged this event for six years the contestants come from all over the world they don't just come for 3 days for the event they come for days or weeks to practice and train and learn where how the movement of the sand is and and when they leave they travel all over the world and share their experience here which brings additional tourism free advertising uh the event promotes more than just tourism it promotes cultural activities with a silent auction that brings an artists and art from all over the world uh the annual event includes the taste of Bard where you can sample foods from several locally owned restaurants uh view thee art the silent auction uh all the items and printing and merchandise t-shirts and everything is all bought locally from local businesses uh grants of tax dollars are intended for events for the public good good the National Kidney found Foundation Rick tournament does that by Design and intent it is the largest fundraiser for the National Kidney Foundation in the world one of the contestants we had yesterday received a a kidney transplant that may not have occurred had it not been for this event annually for the last 24 years this event was created to raise money and save lives that the fact that it promotes local tourism spending and promoting small businesses restaurants cultural and art exhibits that are enjoyed by the local residents and the tourists is just a byproduct if ever there was a a year that a grant was needed it was this one uh the tournament's usually in September and they changed it to October because of con competing competitions in Panama City Jacksonville Beach and Daytona that were taking contestants away from here because they received larger grants and had larger prizes so they moved it to October and we had a hurricane and it delayed it to Veterans Day so the time period to get the Grant application by you know and meet the criteria they need some time to to work or work with you or find something to to sorry sir okay I thank you for your time and thank you for your outgoing Commissioners for thank you sir thank you Mr Douglas [Music] Taylor good morning my name is Doug Taylor I live at a 5011 Dixie Highway Northeast in Palm Bay I sit on the board of directors of the Melbourne Art Festival a proud organization has been riching our community for over four decades I stand before you today not as a repres presented of my Festival but also the voice of several other nonprofit organizations today I'm deeply concerned about the recent decision to withdraw bed fat tax funding from these small eight nonprofit volunteer run events and organizations for well over a decade The Bard County tourist Development Council grants have been a Lifeline to enabling us to showcase the Space Coast as a vibrant cultural destination let us not forget that these events are more than just cultural Milestones they're economic drivers each festival and cultural event that has been excluded raised between 1,000 and 2,000 out of town visitors that's as many as 16,000 out of County visitors that really divided and gave us some uh additional lodging customers dining shopping injecting vital Revenue into our local businesses these visitors are exactly who we want to attract as returned visitors new workers residents for our growing Community by supporting these small nonprofits you are investing in the very Foundation of our community prosperity and resistance resilience moreover the funds we are advocating are voter mandated rard taxpayers entrusted this money to you with the expectation that you use it to support and enhance local events that reflect our community's values and spirit not just large sports events not just beaches and lifeguards not just advertising but also cultural events it's in the Mandate these small nonprofit events and venues have uh have consistently demonstrated their ability to deliver substantial benefits and we do it without the professional management and huge budgets like the wory organizations that your current plan funds our margins are razor thin every dollar counts on our fight to continue our me Mission the Melbourne Art Festival and our fellow nonprofits are more than just events they are beacons of creativity education and Community engagement after suffering the devastating loss of Florida State Arts and Cultural funding it's looking dire for these npos like everywhere our costs continue to rise for everything including advertising event space advertising police and security and course insurance I urge you honorable Commissioners for to reconsider the decision to defund these vital programs and restore bed tax funding to these small organizations thank you okay Commissioners that's all the cards what is your pleasure commissioner toaya did you want to bring your um one motion back right now sir no Madam chair I wanted to speak to the 44 uh applicants here okay sir and I didn't want to speak to them individually though um I will be more than willing to um and it's interesting to segue from the previous speaker but um and and I want to thank the TDC for following many of the guidelines I don't think that I think the future commissions can work on this to make this even better because there are a lot of problems in the applicants that we have here so I wanted to go over just a few of those uh 25 of the 44 applicants are for-profit uh entities not all of these applicants uh follow the simple directions of providing Articles of Incorporation as requested but they're still here on our list one uh not for-profit pays an executive hundreds of dollars an hour and several have executive compensations of well over $100,000 that's the challenge of deciding what is a nonprofit many times nonprofits have people to top that make uh substantial amounts of money uh one of the applicants has $7 million in revenue and endowment of $5 million yet we're providing them with money some of these events have already happened or are currently happening uh the vast majority of these applicants uh provided uh 990s that were more than two two or more years old and and here's the one that bothers me the most the fact that it made it here and I will name it here because I'm sure you you guys are curious one uh applicant has already publicly stated that they will be leaving Bard County uh they said Orlando has nine times more tourists in Bard County so it'll be hard uh not to make that choice yet we're going to provide them with thousands of dollars that would be the Wizard of Oz museum um these applicants return year after year none of the so not all of these uh uh applicants list tourism uh on their 990s as as uh a source of income some even specifically List local residents as their focus um one of these applicants is associated with an organization that is holding billions of dollars in assets and Investments so um there's a whole bunch of problems with with some of with some of these uh and I can't believe that I'd be willing to uh say punt this tell uh the next meeting but I I I think it's patently unfair that we're going to Pro I'll just a couple of these are not ADA Compliant um the the major uh events are not now the grounds may be but the activities are are not and that's in the application process I think there's a lot that needs to be dug into and and uh before we go and offer hundreds of thousands of dollars to these organizations maybe it's worthy to set the parameters up so we focus in on nonprofit but again it's not just as easy as saying nonprofit We have to look at what truly is a nonprofit um but again that that is um just you know Food For Thought instead of picking individual individual ones of these out I'm more than willing to go into that if if so needed but those are just my initial thoughts on on these uh 44 applicants Madam chair um thank you commissioner Tobi you know it it's I'm sure like anything you we could find something wrong in everything uh but to cut out some of them just because they don't qualify would it not be better or fair that we look at this and maybe you won't be around and I'll miss you I'll call you back as a consultant I wouldn't I wouldn't Bank on that okay but wouldn't it wouldn't it work better if we were to have a workshop and go over these things where we can take one at a time say here's the problem I wish we' have done it earlier because I know you've always had uh you had great deal of love for these things and I appreciate that but uh wouldn't that be better for us than just say we're going to cut because we got Peter who's supposed to be watching the money I would assume right Peter yes sir okay so uh and then you cut some of them commissioner and I just find it I find it difficult find it unusual and what better way for everybody to have a clear understanding of how much fun it is setting up here than let Katie enjoy that you know down the road Madam chair I I think that's I think that's a great idea um I I I I like the format that the board I think unanimously set up for the ma major I think it made makes it a lot more fair I think it makes it a lot clearer for the applicants but after this first application process it's clear there are some holes in it some holes that we need to fix and and I'm glad we make those changes but but again there's a long way to go uh but again this is just some problems I have with some of these if if you think they can be worked out through a workshop uh process I think that would be uh a great idea well then you would have to agree to table this I just have one question for Peter Peter when when do you need us to final this well sir I mean certainly we're happy if the board wants to table but um there are events that are occurring that we'll just have to wait and in some cases they'll miss the opportunity you know to get marketing support but uh so be I mean if we got it done uh at the next meeting that would be preferable yes sir okay couldn't you give us a list too of the ones that are going to come online the quickest yes sir okay that would make sense we got triage right okay well we'd like to go ahead and approve all District ones right now but I think that's not going to go through um Madam chair one of the stipulations here was that we handle the marketing so we do it beforehand so it's we don't we used to reimburse in the in the background um I think to give you time to have your and not force it on the next meeting but we could change that I think uh I would certainly support that that we could reimburse ones that would be caught in that um timeline of of that until such time that you is that your motion then to sir you want make the motion that we can reimburse for those ones that are been caught in the interim I would be okay and table it until such a time that the board has an opportunity to do a workshop is there enough time to do a workshop with a lot of these well if you reim if you reimburse retroactively then it doesn't then it wouldn't matter uh I could I could vote for that if you'll add back into the 818 that you cut out well that's I think that's the point of that not to interrupt is for us the new board to decide had those back in okay but we didn't cut we didn't we didn't cut anything out we changed the param we changed the parameters and they didn't it was not it was not done with intent you you voted for this too Mr but I yeah but I didn't know you going to be this and and I didn't know that it would allow a organization that said we're leaving rard County to come apply for it either the wizard of H Museum okay so so again it's something that you could that you absolutely absolutely can fix there is a a thought pattern on this is is for years and years and and not anything on the commissioner before they did a great job too but I've watched this thing change every time this this item comes up which is a good thing because it's brings up new problems every time every time you got a problem you got to figure out a solution so this is going to constantly be changing as far as how to manage these dollars because you know we got to be responsible for them so I think maybe um the commission moving forward should probably trying to plan on a couple workshops during their term to try to figure out what to do with these and so the the goal on this though it's not really a benevolent item it's how to um get extra tourism dollars into the area so as you're trying to consider those things again as well and um I'm going to agree to your motion sir but I want to throw this out because I have commissioner delany's attention here you got to really make sure commissioner delini that you were making sure that district one gets its fair share of this because a lot of times we were like down on zero so you get the numbers at them up and figure it out ma'am okay so commissioner to buy it back to you sir is is someone ready to make a motion you just restate it and I'll I'm willing to second that okay to uh postpone the decision until such a time that the board can have at least one Workshop giving the applicants the opportunity to come and present their cases and those that fall into the interim uh between now and such a time that the decision is made by the board uh be eligible for retroactive reimbursement of marketing funds all right I'll second that quick question before I I called that what about any of these organizations that like the space Co symphony symphony orchestra since it's just a reimbursement it shouldn't affect them waiting for a workshop well commissioner anybody it would because the board would have to approve it at the work you know uh subsequence of the workshop you'd have to approve which ones are going to get the get the funding so what I I would suggest is that we will try to schedule something uh in January uh you know we'll look at probably a Thursday we've done a lot of the board workshops in the past on Thursdays uh between meetings and we'll bring that back to the at the next board meeting to get a date from the board okay look what we're doing to the new board all right I have a motion of second all in favor say I I opposed passes 5 Z good work guys four I'm keep forgetting I should be used to that no you know we spent I think two years of the commission only having four Commissioners that was very interesting all right we are moving into our last public comment Mr Rick he finger Rick he finger 2000 juniver Drive kogo Florida wonderful district one um wanted to kind of come down here and I'm I'm actually looking forward to the to the next board this going to be here um I wanted to say goodbye to Jason my buddy I don't know why he's not here was he called away on emergency are you going to dock his pay for not attending his mandatory required meeting no geez um really going to miss you John it's been fun going to miss you Rita been fun um looking forward to uh three new people my gosh you guys are going to have to I think decisions today were made they're good because those you're going to have to work with all those three people so I look forward to you guys working close I love this idea I don't know why we weren't doing workshops I mean you guys have been here for eight years could have been doing workshops a long time ago so it's interesting you'd say that now um hopefully uh you know we've got some high anticipated expectations of our new people i' I don't care about Katie but um it'll be interesting to see what happens I think that this uh this process has suffered terribly over the failure of of of engaging the public and I hope to see that and happen much more um it was kind of amusing that the traffic calming was put down as uh continued or unfinished business you really never started that business not quite sure what I means information maybe there's never been a public hearing there should have been a public hearing a long time ago um and I and I think the this whole thing about the public getting involved and having an advocate like we we believe we have an advocate in Katie um the County's going to have to step up their game because they're part of that whole public involvement and engagement too and my experience has been not good and I don't know who it was why it was but you know delaying of public records seeming to drag things out um that stuff's kind of not going to be tolerated and and we we look at you guys at least that my my opinion is you know what your job is you avocate for us against the bureaucracy over there if you won't do that they're going to run us run us over and I think in the past they've been running us over so I hope that Katie holds the bureaucracy accountable as well you guys have not some of you have not I think done a very good job I mean Jason steel told me himself that wasn't his job this is a Coco project and they're going to do what they're going to do that's the wrong answer and I hope all the new Commissioners realize that's the wrong answer we we'll see but I really did want to say bye-bye John byebye Rita good luck in your future endeavors um and that's all sarcastic you understand that right okay thanks uh but hey Tom and Rob now's your opportunity there's you know three new ones let's see what happens but I think that public engagement thing you guys never really need to watch that cu the public is getting fired up thanks thank you okay we are done with public comments we're going to move to board reports keny manager I have no report County attorney have no report Madam chair commissioner Goodson no report than I will miss you immensely surely Miss John immensely I hope John you don't get in front of me in a traffic jam okay traffic jam yeah I run over you with my asphalt spreader okay commissioner getson you've been you've been a lot of fun run over someone with an asphalt spreader you have okay I believe you I believe you the the problem is is you'll have to make a decision do I go right or left or right or left so I'll just pick one and you'll swerve the other way so okay commissioner Taya uh thank you madam chair uh last vice vice chair report today is uh National pizza with the works except an chovi day uh useful Florida fact approximately 1500 mermaids have swam at uh wachi since mermaid shows debuted 60 years ago this day in Florida history on this evening on the evening of November 12th 1833 along the uh North uh along with the rest of North America were witnessed of the great uh meteor shower an estimated 72,000 meteors crisscrossed the sky each hour prompting some people to fall to the ground praying to God to save the world at the time the true cause of meteor was not known So Many religious person person assumed it was the end of days uh and County employee recognition Andrea M McAvoy uh interim director of Titusville Library years of service 2 uh uh Andy uh started working part-time at Bard County Library System January 12 2022 with the Coco Beach Library System she came to us with extensive Library experience working uh in other system she would finished her online Master's Degree in library science and information systems upon re receiving the Master's Degree she was selected to fill the role of reference library supervisor at the Titusville library in March 2023 she has proven to be a natural leader and tremendous public servant she has worked with all the staff in Titusville and brought a sense of team and and fund to the library when the director of Titusville needed to be out on leave Andy was appointed interim director she was able to oversee the branch activities such as summer reading activities and early voting during this time she has a call demeanor and handled challenging patrons uh and situations well patrons often ask her specifically uh when uh seeking help at the computer lab Andy is quick to volunteer for activities systemwide and participate in uh system activities She's Been instrumental and helping with working with uh material selection teams recatalog Rec cataloging of those have gender specific names think about that Bobby Sam and Zelda uh she also has an amazing collection of uh H uh holiday socks and uh Doc Martin Boots uh Andy thank you for your uh service to the county and and finally here is my run one request and I probably shouldn't say it after you know telling commissioner Goodson he couldn't make a decision and stick with it one way or another I would I would hope uh I would ask politely one of the uh two Commissioners that stay you can get rid of all this mess the national day the useful fun fact or whatever the heck the case may be but I would ask that you uh hopefully pick and continue to recognize a County employee that we you know Overlook uh many times but the public uh certainly is much better off for for their hard work and their their diligence it's uh something that I was always proud to do on behalf of all of us and and and I would hope that that that you would continue that thank you for at least taking that uh into consideration that's my report Madam chair Mr okay well we have a couple of plaqu um for our two outgoing members and I think it would be appropriate if we take a picture afterward but uh for commissioner pritchet for your years of service on the board of County Commissioners we greatly appreciate it um we wish you success in your next Endeavor and we'll we'll pass that to John and then I think I think we'll take a picture um and we appreciate your eight years of service to the board of County Commissioners um thank you sir thank you and uh commissioner Goodson and I got you a small thing and uh ni so we I I'll just say I hope you never need it no the real reason for that I must confess if you go out in that parking lot your car won't crank that's to for you to get your ass out of here okay all right thank you for this and I I I I must say little preview of how this is going to go here in the next couple years with what we' what we've done with Commissioners it's it's it seems to be very rare that we get a lot of Commissioners that make a whole eight years we we've had a few come and go through the time period of of other reasons um I just want to say that um I I can't thank the county staff enough I I'm amazed at all of the help and the professionalism you guys have been through the years if you you always tell the truth I mean we ask you questions and ask you you know what we can do to do this or what we cannot do what's the boundaries um Morris you have done just such a great job you know we we bring out the ideas and you do your best to protect us as a commission to make sure we're not getting the county in trouble or anything we do in individually and um sometimes it's not the answer we want to hear but you have been so great at protecting us and protecting the taxpayers of the county thank you so much Frank I I can't thank you enough for your your guidance and your friendship you you have really really helped this County get through a lot of hard times we've been through Co we've been through economic crisis and you have just done a great job sir with your leadership and your your your way of managing the whole staff it's it's been it's just been very very good experience and I'm going to miss names but John you know I I can't thank you enough for your wisdom even though you've got thrown out a few of my meetings from time to time you have just been a great advocate of always telling the truth and you're just such a good man and I again I'm going to miss people Jim and and all of you guys and and um Billy thanks for the plaque and thank you guys so much for all you've done I've I've grown so fond of you your family and I have to say I love y'all you're just such good people and this County so blessed to have such great people in leadership here and it's been tough even though elections bring out the best in people it's been that's very that's one of your words there that's a little sarcastic it's been a very um trying time but things are going to calm down again they always do about four months after and people learn to be kind again kindness is never weakness so just you guys keep doing what you're doing you're doing such a a great job with that Mr Goodson I have thoroughly enjoyed enoyed you sir um and I I told the other night you're a good man you said no I'm not I said you are you're just cranky but he is he's a good person he's got my wife does it to me yeah I know I'm have to have a talk with her later I'm sure I'm sure to help you out sir with your rest of your life um but thank you for all you've done for this County and all you continue to do I I appreciate it so much I know it hasn't been always very easy um commissioner feltner your family and you've you've and so I just wanted to say all that I thank you so much and at the end of this um I hope we've done everything we need to do to please the Lord at the end of the day if you please the Lord you've had a very good day and I'm just going to throw that out right now because I am in Ministry and right now I just pray for this County and everybody in here for you to be blessed and to be able to get some joy in your life and that the Lord would Prosper you as your soul prospers and on that I'm going to call this meeting adjourned okay amen okay you want to do piure the opinions expressed by any member of the public during any period of public comment do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the board of County commissioners of Bard County Florida Space Coast government television or the program sponsor and are solely those of the presenter the board of County commissioners of bravard County Florida Space Coast government television and the program sponsor hereby expressly disclaim any and all responsibility or liability for any defamatory or slanderous statements expressed by any member of the public during any such period [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]