[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] hen I'll do Mr Henry could you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance if we all could stand please I pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay this is the planning and zoning board looc planning agency it's an Advisory Board which makes recommendations to the County Commissioners who will make the final decisions on all these items item G1 is an LPA item items on today's agenda will be heard by the County Commission on March 7th at 5:00 p.m. when a motion ends in any kind of a split vote a roll call vote may be taken to ensure accuracy as a reminder each member who makes a motion or a second needs to turn their microphone on so that the voice is on the record speakers for public comment on agenda items will be given five minutes at this time if any board member has had any expart communication regarding any application please disclose so now all right seeing that I ask for approval of the pnz minutes from January 8th 2024 move for approval second okay motion by Debbie who second I'm sorry your name Rob as second by Rob all those in favor say I I any opposed that pass unanimously I'm G to slow down thank you Mr chair item one uh item G one is the transmitt of the water supply facilities work plan and related amendments to the comprehensive plan to the Florida Department of of Commerce this is a countywide initiative um if you've uh noticed in the agenda report it was mistakenly noted that this would be going to uh February 20th board meeting however um staff is uh read vertising this to go to the March 7th board meeting so if anybody's out in the audience uh wanting to attend that this is um planning on going to the March 7th uh zoning meeting for the board with that being said this is the transmittal hearing for the water supply plant and the uh related amendments this is just the transmittal stage of this application um the next process would be go would uh end up going to the board for their recommendation to be sent up to the state once the state reviews um these this plan and the adjacent amendments it'll come back down for the adoption hearing process which you'll hear that uh you'll hear this item again so with that said I'll I'll defer to the the chair well has anyone got any you want to just open it for discussion you can you can do that yes I don't know if there's anybody in audience that's wishing to speak is any you want to speak for against this item I just questions and comments well sir if you could come up and state your name address for the record I live at 2000 Juniper Drive COC Florida I have a question uh before you get started sorry are are we going to have a presentation about this the author is the author of the report is that is that person here or what's going on we we were not doing a uh presentation Mr transmitt Mr F and the utility services director can give you a little bit more insight of what we're planning on doing with this with this update if that's the the flavor of the board because I think some of us have some questions we would like to have answered before we make a recommendation all right let's let him go ahead and present it and then we'll take his question and we'll go from there is that all right sure yes sir hi um as Jeffrey stated my name's Edward fonin I'm the Utility Services director um the water supply plan and I'm sure some of this is tied in with what's in the agenda report but with regard to this this is a component of the comp plan this is merely a snapshot um picture that's a requirement um an attached document that's associated with the comp plan and I um the requirements to cont ENT of what you see in the water supply plan is what is required by state law um we and I I'm saying this from 30 years experience that I've worked on a few of these as a consultant um if there's questions related to why doesn't uh the Water Supply plan contain this or this it's because it exceeds what the requirement of what the uh Water Management District and Tallahasse would require for the documents so thus they really don't look at it from that standpoint um the idea of this is again it's a snapshot um I know there's the phrase um facility or planning and sometimes we seem to take that as being locked in but that's not the intent with this this is um just to give a snapshot to the Water Management District in tasse to give them a snapshot of what does it look like what does it look like with projections and if you look further in the document we talk about projects that um address water expansion because I'm sure in some of those graphs you're going to see the need for it which are identified in there that's that's an important component because that now once it goes through the process of approval by the Water Management District in Tallahassee they recognize Iz that and it becomes a more viable option for future funding so we're excited from that perspective um and I apologize if I'm speaking too much on this or and by any um moment Jerry you're welcome to cut me off um so the difference when we look at it there's a planning document which is the water supply plan and then what's more of the tied in is what we call the consump of use permit that is really the key component um that is the permit with the Water Management District that um actually gives us a um a value of how many gallons per year we can withdraw to generate portable water so the intent is to do the planning document we currently um we currently have two two projects because we only provide water in the baref fo Bay South Bard area and in the Mims North Bard area if you look in the water supply plan you will see that that we have identified a water um a water treatment plant for added capacity which this month the RFQ for the Engineering Services are going out we have the funding for the engineering so this really plays in line because as we get closer with the design the water supply plan identifying it associated with the need we're hopeful that it'll give us a higher probability to get more State funding to fund the construction okay well as we go along here I might direct some of the public comments to you if they have questions you choose sir well hold on one second sir Ron do you have questions for staff uh I have questions about this yes I think several of us did do and that's why I was wondering do we want it's was there if there's going to be a presentation then we can either interrupt the person doing the presentation with questions as we go or we can save our questions till the end but uh I know I have several questions I'd like to well you've got the floor we'll just start it with that okay uh okay first question I had was on page 14 of appendix B uh page 14 is are the the the thing that was presented to us has Pages numbered which are as an entire document anyway on page 14 uh the Water Service Area uh expansion to the north goes uh between US1 and Indian River legon all the way to the county line and my first question was on that water service area is that just potable water or is it also include sewage um yeah this is only for water so again as I made mention anything um there's there should be no content related to sewer um as that's not something the Water Management District would be uh now that's a fairly large area and I when I was looking through I didn't find a cost for this water line expansion into this area you know right now it goes up I believe to Lionel Road and that's as far north as it goes uh is are there plans to actually put water lines North and where's the funding for that well the the next step after the approval of the water supply plan would be to um and uh forgive me because I'm not a planner I always call it a comp plan amendments which would be the next phase after we do this and in the comp plan um and again I'm going to reference there's 15 chapters in the comp plants that are um up for Amendment uh one of those is water portable water and it's the opportunity where we go to the board and we present water service districts not just current but future and then we also talk about the goals objectives and policies that we want has associated with that when we get to the point where we present that to the board we would go through the process of explaining in high altitude what kind of dollars would be Associated if we expand our water supply boundary from its current So currently there is no funding funded uh expansion in of the current water lines we have we have funding for engineering on some of these but no the the the to say do we have complete funding to accomplish everything in a future water supply um or boundary the answer is no not currently okay uh next question was on page 29 through 33 appendix C for the Mims cup it shows act 18 active Wells and 11 proposed Wells uh are some of those proposed Wells going to be replacing existing wills and if so how many we would address this in a consumptive use or a consumptive use permit it's not again the it's a it's a planning document the when we apply for the consumptive use permit that is when the due diligence and what The Water Management District will allow us to have I I don't mean to as a planning document I would expect to see some projected figures in there and you're saying yeah and unfortunately it doesn't go into that in depth um I'd have to I'm just quickly looking through this real quick the reason I was asking I was kind of curious as to what kind of an increase in capacity will these new Wills actually provide you know if they're if you're replacing a bunch of the old Wheels because they're what for whatever reason right uh we may not actually have any increase in capacity and I was wondering what you thought the increase in capacity might be and the and the to answer that question is really the it's the due diligence when you do the consumptive use permit and so I don't mean to like I the why I'm putting the emphasis is um once you get into the the the water the the water supply plan is really highlevel big picture and really when you get into the next layer that is when the Water Management District requires you to do aquafer modeling they want Bieber population projections not our projections but projections that have been adopted by the state and we would have to go through and obviously it would require the need of an engineer we would go through that modeling and Buy location and well by well the water management districts then provides an annual allowance that you can draw from that well okay but with that if I may sir just because I know you're talking about the the ones that are inactive part of what we're Our intention is is that right now the Mims and Bea Bay Water Plant are they a surficial water um water well plant which as you all know this is the well that you could tap into and pull out for you know day-to-day drinking you hear about people using that same well for irrigation systems that don't have reuse when we're looking at future Wells we're also going to be looking at using the brackish aquifer that's where we're getting into reverse osmosis it's the just what it is it's a deeper aquifer but it's brackish water and that'll give us a more plentiful Source without having the pull away from the volume of water for the official well okay uh next question was on page 94 of appendix D you say some of the wells are underperforming and I was wondering what does underperforming mean um underperforming can mean we have instances where chlorides are higher than acceptable um the water draw is lower than um historic those are usually two of the um factors that are associated with it uh do you know what causes them to be underperforming I mean are they is saltwater in part of the problem um saltwater intrusion is so if you look at the State of Florida the surficial aquafer that we um that we have in Bard county is actually originated from the Georgia uh border Central State and it kind of triangulates through Central Florida so you're getting into it comes South goes around Claremont and it starts deflecting over goes a little bit through Oola County but not all of it and it starts deflecting down it actually ends at Vero Beach and part of the issue is is that as population growth is occurring in Central Florida you're getting more of a um a draw from that and although that the water management districts are trying to manage it um unfortunately because we're at the southern tip of that were you know sometimes during drought conditions the wells may not have the volume as needed okay uh also on that same page what does unfunded revenue mean unfunded Revenue means we don't have the funding as of today okay and on those tables where you do have funding that's already been approved by whoever I'm sorry sir may you repeat that in that on there's some table those tables in there they show revenue from uh 2023 2024 and that Revenue has been approved and it's uh Without Me blanket saying yes let me just look at this if I may if it's in 2022 or 2023 the answer is yes as we're going into I think we're going into fiscal year 2025 in October that has hasn't been approved because the board hasn't had an opportunity to approve our budget yet okay uh since some of that uh I don't remember exactly which table it is but I remember one of the tables had Revenue out into 26 27 I believe maybe 28 which hasn't been approved so I don't understand when you say it's wouldn't that fall in the UN funded category shouldn't that fall in un unfunded that is just an earmark of what we're talking it should um and I'm just trying to look um it's a planning holder if you look at it the 2.88 to um there is the option one we get to that year to fund it through Revenue funds uh from the department but again until we get to that year and we get it board approved it won't be decided then in the meantime we're actively pursuing grants and we've been quite successful with that so obviously as we get closer to that year that's subject to change okay um let's see on page 91 one appendix D it says charges for services revenue and it shows that chart uh sees major increases in out the out years uh and I was wondering does that major increase is that going to equate to an increase in the users bills and if so that's a heck of an increase going from from thousands of dollars to millions of dollars what page was that sir page 91 91 because in the physical in the physical year is 22 2022 and 2023 we're talking about tins and then well the yeah well the the question is is that when we when we were approved by the when we did the rate increase meaning the utility services that were adopted in I believe it was July of 2021 we programmed the rate increase that we knew knew that we were going to be funding a good majority of the larger size Capital Improvement projects using Bond services and by saying that the money that would we would use it would give us a 20 30 years spread to pay back by just having an annual Debt Service so users of the water system would not expect to see percentage increases that would match this the none no the Pro so if I understand your question none of the projects that you're looking at especially large dollar are not meant to be pay as you go okay they're meant to be uh it's meant to be done through um Bond Debt Service okay all right uh next question is on uh page 120 the facilties work plan it accounts for projected water use during due to projected population increases but I was wondering uh does the plan account for increased water use due to expansion of the water service area and I think you've answered that earlier and the answer is no so sir in the in the in the benefit this is recorded can you repeat the question to confirm if no is adequate okay uh the work plan accounts for projected water use due to projected population increases County wde and my question was does the plan account for any increased water use due to the expansion of water service areas and I think you answered that earlier in the negative does the water so in the water supply plan there are graphs that show what we view as projection demand supply and demand so we do look at a projection but again it's just highlevel conceptual until we get to the consumptive use process okay uh next question on page 135 uh facilities work plan table 11 it's recommended that the MIM cup be increased to allow for projected population increases and I was wondering have there been any studies to show that there is water available for such an increase and I think that's where I was referring to the um so it's the Florida and aquifer which is what I refer to as being the brackish barrier MH and at that there's ample volumes of water the issue is not issue but the technology needed is reverse osmosis and but the answer is we we have identified that and that would probably be the direction we would be going okay and then on page uh 144 it's mentioned that saltwater intrusion into the wells uh due to overdraw is a concern and uh it also mentions that expanded oops sorry let me get my message back here it also mentions that expand draws May compromise water quality in domestic self Supply systems so I was wondering what approaches is either bavard County or the St John's Water Management District using or recommending to prevent the increased draws from affecting the domestic self-service systems so I'm sorry sir I just want to I again I um rather than find it domestic what's it referred to as domestic self Supply systems in other words the well that Prides water to my house because I'm not on the Water System right and we don't we don't have jurisdiction over that so if I I I've realized that was probably a St John's Water Management District question but I was wondering if you had heard or KN knew of anything that uh the that they were doing or recommending to try to prevent impacting private Wells no I have not I have not heard anything with related to from a state or Water Management District on that okay is there any monitoring of uh private Wells any way to monitor that that that you can so you can track to see which Wells and where they are might experience saltwater intrusion yeah the so I go back if if a well is smaller than 6 in in diameter and withdrawing less than 100,000 gallons per day it is not under the jurisdiction of the Water Management District so as a day-to-day residential who is putting a two or 3 in pipe in the ground pulling out a few hundred I don't think that is on the um I I don't think the Water Management District has a record I'm not sure agency wise who you contact and I I know you know I'm Leary to say Department of Health I know they're related for septic as a contractor I deal with them every day uh the uh Department of of Health in Bard okay okay for both water and okay and one final question uh as we experience sea level rise uh is that going to increase the probability of saltwater intrusion yes okay I was hoping you would say something else I'm only going by what I've read in the studies uh for Jeff for clarification because I know we got a lot of information there item G1 is strictly the transmittal of the water supply facilities that is correct so I mean we need to kind of because we're not I mean Ron those are great questions don't misunderstand me but I mean we're not to that point we got to take how many steps to get to correct this is the trans this is the transmittal hearing to transmit to the state for the review Once it comes back from the state it'll go through the adoption hearing process where you will hear this item again with the um comments objections recommendations from the state and the other state agencies just on this just on the water supply Ian we're not even close to engineering and ab abolutely not this is a this is a 10year planning Horizon document well I didn't want to cut Mr Ed off too early there cuz I was late and I'm still apologizing but I mean I just wanted to get kind of clarification for the whole board because I actually got a little confused looking at this packet that if you don't mind clarifying what we need a motion on and what we're voting on just so so we're looking for a recommendation to transmit the water Supply plan and the related comprehensive plan amendments to the state to the well yes to the state correct so to kind of yes sir um Ron brought up a number of things that I was also going to bring up but he's just smarter than faster than I am and me too because I actually was had some of the same questions and I'm like wait a minute I got to back up here because we're going for just I'm so out of order right now that uh we'll be here till 8:00 with Mr hopping Gard here the one thing I wanted to and and you know um Edward I I appreciate your your cander and saying that this is an overall Global document not necessarily an individual engineering document because we have contractors and engineers and Architects on this board um myself being one of them um and have worked on similar documents like this both in Miami dat and and brow County so um one of a couple of things that I'm looking at which um Ron already brought up is the funding aspects of it um kimly horn was very clear in that um and I'll read the St John's River Water Management District's most recent two 2020 Regional water supply plans the rwsp finds the traditional groundwater Supply is insufficient to meet the projected increasing demands region wide this plan highlights conservation and reuse policies to mitigate local demand so I understand that exhibit B also is to go in there and to provide these Global um requirements for that but you know the table for mims in Barefoot Bay and San Sebastian Water Treatment Plant we know that there's insufficient water supply out there so what this comprehensive plan is is primarily a planning document and it's a planning document for um the water supply is only one aspect of it there's economic Recreation lifestyle development there's Wetlands flood plane development there's schools there's infrastructure and utility which the water plan comes under and then there is for future development for this board this is the basis and the reference that the future Planning and Zoning is developed off of is that correct Jeff that is correct okay so the reason I'm suspecting that it came to this board is to one educate us you know for those of us who are not Professional Engineers to look at what's Downstream for 10 years and where that is going everything is looking at district one the Mims area is what he's saying because of the proposed water supply and the insufficient infrastructure that is there right now so when we're looking at Future planning and planning documents for pnz to come in front of this board we're also looking at well what's available out there now versus who's proposing to build it and how much so capacity and funding are what I'm looking at is a little slack in what was presented to us I'm not saying it's insufficient I'm just saying could be enhanced so that enhancement is to put things like interlocal agreements u i I can't tell you what the interlocal agreements between Titusville and let's say the county are for putting these wells in but you know I do know that they have a consumptive use permit that's issued to the city of Titusville for you know installing things that uh is on County Land correct so how is there an interlocal agreement between Titusville and the county for those Wells and those things to be put on that line there was an interlocal agreement that goes back 2025 years ago there is an interconnect so it has it's not related to the Wells it's related to the portable water but there is a clause in that agreement that um that Titusville you know in essence we say they they'll give us what they can okay but as Titusville is growing we've had communication with um the city of Titusville and it's probably not adequate enough to even um be considered for us to kind of work regionally because as Titusville is growing they're obviously putting that priority to their own growth so that it decreases what they could be able to share with us and given that a lot of times the peak flow is in the summer um that's that's usually the time of need when the wells are usually the lowest well that's a perfect answer so the supplement that I would like to see on your comprehensive plan is a just you don't have to list the exact inter local agreement but list if interlocal agreements exist toward utility ities Recreation water supply those things so that we can at least public has a reference document because this is a planning document these are the references where for the such interlocal agreements do exist newly elected officials new board members on different boards how would we know that without them being referenced somewhere your your Cardinal knowledge is excellent and it's it's very beneficial but it's constru train to where a developer or uh a municipality wants to engage in building new schools or building new infrastructure how does the rest of the board know where those interlocal agreements start and stop so that's just one of my recommendations to put in this comprehensive plan if interlocal agreements and for this water supply would be specific for water supply so like pulling the permit out of St John's I mean I've got the agent is the city of Titusville but the location is in unincorporated bravard brow bravard yeah sorry so those are examples and you know U is just recommendations for you guys to consider when you put this forth okay thank you do we have any other questions for the staff before I take it out to the audience I have a couple imagine that yes sir um according to this report they're projecting an 18% population increase in the next 20 years on a is that on a how was that determined was that a straight line or are they using um the state as as a uh uh qualifier we we used the the bebird numbers from the state use the numbers from the state okay but I noticed on some of the charts that that were in here that the usage was going to be flat I think Barefoot Bay was flat and um some of the other areas were also flat um within 18% isn't that across the board um no I think we're looking at it by region one I me per the county well as as we use the word the county I I just want to clarify so as Bard County Utility Services we only provide water to Mims area and Barefoot Bay so when we talk about the county um the beaches for example are not we are not the water provider for that so when we're looking at from um this is not the um and it was a question I had even with our consultant because I wanted this water supply plan to be clear this isn't Bard Geographic Bard County this is Bard County Utility Services because all the other water providers Palm Bay murn Coco also have the responsibility to submit their own water supply plan so then this report and other reports will go up to the state it's not just this one because this is only for unincorporated correct this is just this plan is just for the service areas that we respond to okay and so the cities or any of the other utility providers will have to go through this same process all right which should r two service areas I'm sorry sir only the county only has two service areas that's correct for water that was a period a even a question yes you got Mims you got the one sou yes sir okay can I I w't take your thunder all um I noticed in that you all do testing of the uh of the water supply and I was curious um there it listed a number of things that are being tested but there's no testing for por chlorite is there a reason why not I mean in North Meritt Island you know we get issues from the space center and I was wondering if that chemical which I I've been in contact with in other areas that I've lived that is very toxic but it's not on the list of of testing that they're doing here if you know the the chemical that's used for cleaning Metals yeah so so the testing component is not a requirement of a water supply plan fine I'm just asking if you guys are are doing that so that you're protecting your residents from any type of toxicity that's getting into the water supply it so the answer is we get a list of testing that's provided to us by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and I only say that because the length is you know there's quite a few items that are tested that I don't have no verbatim but if the state agency tells us we need to test for it I'll assure you that gets accomplished okay it doesn't come the other way around that people in this area request something being tested rather than it coming from the state to us I'm not familiar of a process where it's I mean obviously as as as citizens of Florida you can voice to your government but I guess the question becomes from us as a utility we take the direction from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection okay um you also mentioned because of the um the one aquafer which is brackish you're going to have to get into reverse osmosis how big of a plant are are you anticipating for that we haven't um we haven't calculated that yet because we're going to you know we we there's some components to that it's obviously going to be um the population were anticipating the capital dollars for initial phase so um we don't have an exact number yet okay it's a very expensive process um and my last thing has there any ever been any consideration to recharge the aquifers there are some projects going on in Florida to do that but there are again there's state laws Associated to what you can and can't do um so have we looked into that I we've looked at that at um we've looked at that and our you have to have a a wastewater treatment plant that provides provides reuse at a high caliber so no we haven't looked at that because we don't have a Wastewater Plant that can produce a high caliber reclaim okay um we should look into that but you had said earlier in your comments that this does not address sanitary correct okay but if we have a population increase of 18% what's what's our sanitary structure are we capable of handling that growth with the current facilities that we have yeah we're looking at that as a separate exercise okay all right thank you you're welcome any other questions from the board before I take it out to the audience yes sir Mr Ron uh yeah one more thing I just was curious about uh when there's a new development proposed and they're going to build I don't know 100 houndes uh where does in the in our process where does the use of the County's water system come into play is that during site planning or yeah and pre and prea go ahead so during the pre pre preapplication process there's a term that we call concurrency and concurrency looks at the available capacity versus what they what the proposed project is going to generate and so that is the process where where we ensure that there's enough uh capacity whether it's roads Water and Sewer or or solid waste that that is the process that that goes through um whether it's a site plan or a subdivision process okay I because I didn't recall that any that this board had seen any figures on usage like that either water sewer or I mean we see schools and we see roads but I don't recall seeing water system usage I'm sorry was that a question Ron yes that that that does um um utilities reviews that part of part of the the process but it uh is it is it done at site planning and so we don't it's it's done at pre-application so we look at it from two components we look to see what the capacity of the water treatment plant is to to assure there is enough capacity at the plant and then I'm if it's and then at prea we request the engineer of record for the developer to perform a hydraulic model to make sure that the the pipeline system to provide adequate water to that development is sufficient okay uh do we get access to that information as part of our package when we are reviewing an application we get that during the um and again I'm not I have staff that's much more prevalent on the process of this but it's um at some point during the we notify them in preap of the required due diligence and subsequent submitt the engineer of record submits provides that information for our review so so Ron to just to piggy back on that so when when this board sees a a land use change or his Zer request there there is a there is a concurrency section where it talks about water and sewer um most of the times um well it just depends on where where it is if it is located within um the service boundary we just notated you know for the zoning part of it is is that it's located within the service boundary so when it comes to the site plan process or a subdivision process that will get evaluated part of the concurrency review okay so this board doesn't can't make a recommendation for an approval or denial based on the fact that a development is going to exceed capacity of our water system or our sewer system well I I think that there's and and Morris can back me up um there's certain criteria that um that you can use for your recommendation as far as a land use change and a resoning change so that is um when when I I would tell you that when when you're reviewing a uh land use change that you should be looking at infrastructure and what that is going to be doing as far as if there's enough capacity to support that development as far as a zoning application you look at consistency and compatibility with the you know consisten with the compant and uh compatibility with the the surrounding area and Jeffrey is correct you would look more concurrency factors if you have a land use change request in front of you once you're at the zoning level you really are just looking for consistency and compatibility so staff provides you that information on concurrency and levels of service but uh that's not typically a consideration for the zoning application itself that's at the at the land use which is more of a planning and legislative level as opposed to zoning which is a quasi judicial level decision okay thank you can Mr chairman yes sir you know what concerns me Morris we we're getting into a sticky little area here because we're now talking about you know provide us that data when when the county has just a minimal amount of area in Rel relationship to what these cities have IE being the city of Coco is the biggest then you got the city of Melbourne you got all these other political subdivisions that they're in the business to sell water and if we County starts telling them you we we don't want that to happen it's uh you know I think it get sticky right it would be the tail wagging I'm not sure I I want to get on that deal your points well received I think any other question from the board for the staff before I go out to the audience all right sir if you could come up to the podium and state your name and address for the record yes sir my name is Rick heule finger I live at 2000 Juniper Drive in Coco Florida 32926 I'm up here as a homeowner and as taxpayer because I have some very similar questions H we see this plan and we see we see a lot of improvements to infrastructure but I don't see how we're funding it and it's been raised several years back about impact fees the developers that are doing the growth I mean these people don't move here and don't live somewhere they they they live in an apartment maybe the one on 524 or maybe the new housing develop at the end of my road we don't collect impact Fe or we have an adjusted impact fees for 30 years that's the rumor I heard when when does this process cross that Financial bridge and somebody says hey it's great we're going to get a brand new water processing facility and then I see them go to the legislative delegation and go hey we'd like the state to pay for that well where did the state that that's good let's let's let's have the state pay for that because Rick doesn't want to see that reflected on Rick's taxes because I see because I pay the I think I pay city of Coco for my water right if they run out of water and they need to increase their their water supply what are they going to drill Wells and they're not going to cost me anything on my taxes right well I'm imagine I'm going to get an increase in my in my water bill so you guys are saying hey we're going to do all this infrastructure Improvement but where who's paying for it I would like to think that we tax people the new people that come here we grow and they say hey here's a little kicker to the water facility let's let's build a new or the taxpayers going to have to end up paying for this or or is Ron going to get the bill or the St John's I don't I don't know who pays for this but terrified that I'm going to be left holding the bag because I don't see impact fees get adjusted for all the growth I see I see plans that maybe the development plans Fox Glenn a recent one just about a year ago that plan was submitted a long time ago and there was assessments for school impacts and water impacts but did anybody review them based on all the new growth so we're we've got these plans floating out there and all a sudden we said do it do it do it not to interrupt you but the item that we're looking at is only correct me if I'm right or wrong here staff is dealing with Barefoot Bay and Mims okay well this is nothing to do like Mr maibu was saying with the city of Coco or Melbourne who provides water probably to you so is that correct that's correct okay I I get a bill from the Coco water supply where do they get their water from your wells no they Orange County Orange County so this isn't going to cost me anything I'll just sit down then we got this all covered do we well saw if we vote Yes on it you want me to share that or not well I I know you're also talking about Wetland preservation because this is a bigger issue our water use right you're pulling the water Saltwater incursion how do you get the water back into the water table I thought this plan talked about a a a waste processing where the secondary water was was was qualified to be reinjected don't we do that down south in Bard somewhere already well here again and help me out Mr Ed and Jeff we're not to that point yet to make those decisions is that correct that's correct but your plan says we won't have a problem as long as the state pays for all these new water processing facilities right as long as we can get the grants well the grants why don't why aren't we taxing the developers you're going to have to take that Mr desandis well I think the impact fees what so so doesn't the County assess the impact fees I'm confused I don't know who do you know H you want to you want to talk about impact fees I mean they're not designed for water it's basic basically Transportation that's been the strongest well there is a water and sewer impact fee and again if it's but it's Min school to the big picture I think well it's it's it's I I I don't want to put an adjective to it but there is a water and sewer impact um there is um but again we're we're putting a lot of emphasis on the funding of it today and this right now we're not even there yet we're not even there yet and and if I could go back Ed I'm sorry not to cut you off but Jeff if you could help me again with the public and with the board of item G1 and bring it back to where we need to be so okay um so as the subject talking about only Barefoot Bay and Mims not the city of Coco and not the city of so I'm not in the city I'm un Incorporated Bard District you're getting your water bill from Coco so Coco we're not even discussing Coco so they got plenty of water so so this what you're what you're making a recommendation here this afternoon is for the transmitt of the water water supply facility's work plan and related amendments to the comprehensive plan to the Florida Department of Commerce which encompasses countywide however since we only have since we only have two areas that provide water which is Mims and Barefoot Bay cor that's the areas that would be um that we're addressing so with the transmitter after today the board will hear this item March 7th and they will decide whether to transmit this item up to the state for their review during that review the Florida Commerce and all the other state agencies will review that and provide us with an orc report which stands for objections recommendations and comments so um after that is submitted to us for review uh we have a couple different uh avenues that we can go we can make those recommendations or we decide not to to make those recommendations um and then that would start the adoption hearing process which you all will hear that hear that item again with any comments that we get from the state and then you'll make another recommendation to the board whether or not to adopt with or without those changes from the state correct do you follow that sir so you're submitting this to the County commission for March 7th and then if they are copacetic with it they'll forward it to the state now is that going into St John's Water Management do they do a hard review because it sounds like they're looking at Coco's use they're looking at Melbourne's water use they should be able to say that we're crazy because these other cities are using way more water is that going to happen St John's is going to look at this and say hey Bard County you guys are crazy because the cities are using more water than you are part part of the coordinated review it's my understanding that St John's would review this plan as well okay so we're just foring to the board with recommendations to forward it correct do we have support that we've got enough budget information that this is not a pipe dream or or or can it be just is it just a pipe dream that we don't know how we're going to fund it but we will again this is a 10-year planning Horizon for water supply can I interject just a moment uh something we haven't done is Define what this is I the way I see that this it is what we have it's delineating what we have we've got this many Wells and we need and these people want these other Wells we also have these many facilities and this and this and this needs to be done to it in the next 10 years am I incorrect in that no that's correct sir and that's all we're working on whether we have money for it or not these things need to be done and as far as impact fees go impact fees are a percentage the more houses are built each one of them pays a percentage it is not a it is not a set fee it is a percentage of the cost of it you build a really big house you get a really big impact fee you build a really small house you get a smaller impact fee you have more impact more impact fee there's you know we'll find the money or we won't or we'll die okay if we don't find the money we're going to all die from from lack of water so we'll probably find the money okay we we're just conc the money you'll find is is assessing my real estate taxes higher that's my yeah but now you're with the city of Coco though sir I'm sorry not to interrupt you no I'm I'm Incorporated but you get your water bill from Coco and Coco gets it from where your well so but coko is going to have to do the same thing that we're doing right here so I'm counting on Coco doing a good job city of mil's going to have to do the same thing that we're doing right here corre joh as well so St John sees the big picture you'd have to go to a St John's meeting okay well after these after the seventh I guess the the county will probably kick it to them and it'll go into review and then they'll review it give feedback and then the county will say we accept that feedback or not so so we're still churning this it's I don't know when I don't know when the dollar projections happen it's going to be out okay because we're just getting going here okay well I'm 62 maybe I'll outlive this or or under live this but I appreciate you guys hearing the I like what I here that there's concerns and there being I do like that so thank you that's all I have all right yes ma'am if you'd like to come up and state your name and address for the record hi my name is Katie Delaney I'm from Coco Florida um I am here unincorporated Coco um I think that one of the concerns is is that this plan uh basically makes it possible for interlocal agreements to be made with the municipalities so like for Coco water Melbourne water like you were saying um I have a huge issue with this we just because other areas are using um or are reusing sewage water doesn't mean that we should do it it's not a good idea we already have a Health crisis in bevard County with the posos levels and now we want to add in more of that with the added Pharmaceuticals and eoli bacteria everything else that's going to be in this water and let's be honest we we know why we're here at least the people in North Bard which I'm guessing some of you are from North Bard we know why we're here it's because of farmton we have got to do a better job of protecting our Wetlands because this Wetland recharge area of farmton that's what's replenishing our aquafers and this is a preemptive plan because they want to basically create a new viira in the North End and we know that's coming it's extremely irresponsible what we're doing the way that we're developing and the way that we're not protecting our wetlands and this isn't just an environmental issue this is a safety issue this is an insurance issue this is a quality of life issue and so I'm asking that you guys you have the power to stop this now today to give your no recommendation to the board of of County Commissioners you have that power and so I'm asking you to do the right thing for the people because we all live here all of you live here this is our community and yes we want growth we want development but it has to be done in a responsible way or else our Paradise here is over so I'm asking you guys to to give a no recommendation to to the county on this um we got to find a better way to do this guys thank you all right thank you is anyone else want to speak for or against this item all right seeing that I bring it back to the board we have any more questions or I do Mine mine's real small Ed did was there any reason we left the Space Center off for this the Space Center is served by uh the Coco water system yeah but you looked at the map it didn't look like it it it showed their area which you know they have 35% of this County I I didn't know if that was that was the only thing I gathered from this trans middle it didn't look like they were I mean Coco handles one part of them and right but we don't serve um our water system doesn't serve any capacity the NASA Cape Canaveral Air Force Base none of that I didn't even the port isn't even served by us yeah I just seen the Space Center was somewhat excluded in there okay that's it chairman I have a question yes Debbie so I guess my question would be to you is this transmiss trans transmitt mandatory yes this has been brought to us in a mandatory fashion and will this be mandatory then for other every other municipality within Bard County to provide the same kind of information to the state if you're a water producer yes so everybody has to do this if you're a water I and and I say that because the town of Indian Atlantic probably doesn't because it's served by the city a melber right Al so everybody that produces water even the municipalities that don't produce their own water still have to provide in their comprehensive plan and update as to how they're going to serve their water needs so uh not to the extent you see here that it goes into Water Production but yes yes they all have to address it as per their comprehensive planning correct so if this was as we were said earlier we said no to this transmitt all it would mean is that we have to go in and tweak whatever we feel needs to be tweaked because eventually something has to be sent up correct it's a requirement of state law yes ma thank you yes sir Mr briyan so to piggy back off of what Debbie was saying is this is coming down from the state we've seen this through this board in the past if we don't do anything the state's going to make the decision for us am I correct quite honestly I'm not even sure what happens if um so I well from a from a comprehensive plan um process yes uh the state will come down and do what they do of hey you haven't submitted your your um your water supply plan for for Mr Fon in's reasons he he needs to update his water supply plan for you know to run his utilities and and he can go into that detail of why it's important and why why he needs to do the water supply plan but from a technical point it's required as part of the comp plan and again part of it is the listing of the projects we anticipate and for those to be eligible for future um State funding so when opportunities do arise you know depending on what the funding mechanism is and the criteria but it's not uncommon for a water project of this caliber to say is there an approved water supply plan that shows it right so my point is if we don't approve this as somebody recommended from the audience was vote no against this if we don't do it we have a pretty good chance we're not going to get future funding from the state because we didn't submit our own plan at least we're submitting our own plan with what we know to be deficiencies for things we're working towards for the future that's correct that is correct but if if the board were decide that they would recommend Denial on this it would still go in front of the board with your recommendation whether it's whether it's for it or against it okay they decide right Mr chairman yes sir I'd like to ask staff question um is it possible to put some of the recommendations that you heard today into um the memorandum to go forth or is it have do we have to approve old the as is if if there is recommendations that you would like part of your recommendation we certainly can do that the one that I heard from you stay um is to um include uh some language to um I don't want to in local agreement yes yes sir future board members and future people at least have a road map where to go to find that legal document so that they can evaluate whatever and then the other one was funding um is it currently in a current budget or is it to be funded those two were my record recommendations um I think Ron you had a few well those the the funding was my primary concern because I see I see it funding it but yet and we're talking about fiscal years that are out in the future and as far as I know the county doesn't fund anything beyond the current fiscal year so why are those listed as funded when they really should be unfunded so there requirements to do at a planning level strategic uh comprehensive planning and Capital Improvements projections that go into the future although you're correct they're non-binding because each year the county develops a budget specific for that year but you have a five-year Capital Improvement uh project plan that lists those Capital Improvements that you're projected to accomplish and you're required to do those things uh by a number of things including state law for comprehensive planning so it's a planning level document but you're right that each year a budget adopted independent of that but that should guide the process of developing the budget yeah I I would just have preferred to see funded expected but unfunded something like that rather than showing up as because it implies when I look at the document it implies these things are all funded because they're all on the same level and the the line that says unfunded has zero 0 dollar throughout the entire chart so independently came up by myself the same way question yes sir Mr Brian so on the subject of funding I tallied up roughly $39 million um through I think it was 18 Pages worth of estimates are those estimates over that 10-year period or is that what's needed now those are in today's dollars and again those are high Lev conceptual so we're going to have more needs over that next 10 years is there any estimation with inflation and so forth what this number could become from 39 million uh not offand but that's being done in a separate exercise so because this is being mandated by the state if we don't do something again the state's going to do what they want if we don't put our two cents forth if we're going in here saying 39 million is there any reasonable number that we can come back from saying that the state is going to potentially kick in a certain amount of this money or is this all 39 million coming from our tax dollars in this County the 39 million that you're referencing is is um the the path to funding is to be established and I'm not um and what I mean by that is you know the Florida Department of Environmental Protection two three times a year has submitted on um has grant opportunities we've been historically quite successful in getting those grants in addition to that as I mentioned and when we calculated the when the uh the Border County Commissions in 2021 approved the rate increase it was our intention to use that rate increase to do a bond Debt Service in order to fund large Capital so the the what you're seeing in this document is not a detailed financial plan to get there it's a big picture planning document to acknowledge what the state requirements are as we go through the design and we go through proper cost estimates we'll sync that in with our um with our financial staff and finding a means of funding which again may be a bond so I realize this is a long-term project this is 10 years out what I'm trying to base my decision on is the state's mandating we do this in the past if we do this and we comply with them they're more likely to help us with funding through grants and so forth but if we don't approve this and we're left on our own for the next 10 years to figure out a plan we're carrying the full burden of this 39 million so to me I would think it'd be beneficial that we approve this so that the states knowing that we're working with them and it's a reciprocal back and forth am I not correct on that thinking I I think it would show good cooperation to the state and that we are looking at this and obviously it'll be an opportunity for us to when Grant when grant opportunities become available that we can acknowledge that yes we have an approved water supply plan okay and I think at this point Mr I think at this point it might behoove us to not put anything in there about funded or not funded or what may be funded or may not be funded because we we don't know right now this is still in the planning stages of that and if we are going out there and looking for grant money which not just B our County as a whole as the government as a whole but each municipality is out there and they're all searching for these exact same dollars you know to be able to help themselves with the same issues that we're talking about here you know we don't want to Pigeon hold ourselves into any any Corner prematurely what I would say is if I look at this and uh I'm a state agency I would say oh they've already got the funding for this we don't have to worry about it and that's not true that's not how no I'm sorry sir that's not how this this is this is a planning level exercise the state understands that they require it as a planning exercise uh and the idea is to develop a a regional water supply plan this all goes through the um the state and they understand that it's a a planning level exercise this and identifying specific funding for sources it's identifying projected needs uh which you have a a methodology you're supposed to use under statute for determining what those projected needs are and then it's identifying the projects that are necessary to serve those needs correct Eddie that's correct and uh and estimating the cost of those projects and as far as budgeting for those again it's a planning level exercise where you're putting in a reasonable expectation that you're going to be able to fund the projects it's not to the granular level of identifying exact funding sources because again this is long ranging it goes well beyond the the one-year budget um it it's a planning level document Mr chairman yes sir so just for clarification this so this is the first step out of many stages so we if we say yes no put revisions in or recommendations we still have an opportunity to go through it and pick what's good and what's bad we're basically sending it to St John's water the state and give get feedback to where we can continue to develop our plan once once it once once it gets transmitted to the state um that's our opportunity to say this is our best plan moving forward it does not allow you an opportunity once it comes back to make the changes that would require additional review um that the state would have to review outside of of outside of addressing a specific comment that they may or may not have so anything that like environmental cost that kind of stuff that goes now that's kind of fixed in there we can't change it later is that well let's talk about the CIP and in the process with that a CIP is the Capital Improvements program it is a rolling document it's a fiveyear window where project every year projects come on and projects come off and based on available funding those numbers change so if we have so we're in 2024 if we have a project in 2027 that you know we were budgeting for $3 million and those costs have gone up we can adjust our CIP to say hey we need another $3 million for fiscal 2027 Mr chairman yes sir you know it just amazes me that the Myriad of questions we've had on this and I was under the impression that was just going to be a letter of transmittal Ron had some tremendous questions there have been everybody's had some great questions and was this when the document was done by uh The Firm was this critiqued out and yes we actually we I mean this is the final of the critique um there's still opportunity we have to get feedback still from the Water Management District but we've submitted a draft to them for an unofficial review just to make sure and we've actually um and that's why when you when you all ask questions about sewer you know it's in our an an original draft we had it in there in the Water Management District was this isn't the document for that and so we pulled that out so we were trying to overpopulate it to treat it like a master plan but they're really you know we're going to be going through that exercise of a true master plan that's going to be diving into population projections um more detailed engineering projects um cost estimates that'll be probably you know more tighter than the conceptual numbers but again that's going to be done as a separate exercise you know we might have jumped a little bit but they have some great questions today things that I wasn't even thinking about but I once again I thought it was just a letter of trans midle and not uh going into the detail of the report but uh if I'm wrong I'm wrong but uh well Henry Ron on Ron surprised me had some good questions a lot of my questions are for my own education because I really don't know anything a lot about this and so you've impressed me and and so my Rec I didn't have any recommendations to make because I was thinking well I don't know what I want to recommend I need answers before I can make recommendations as soon as I realized it was in Mims you notice I looked straight at you right so am I to understand that this is non-binding that this is just basically a form that we have to get to the state and it's not it's not saying we are going to do this it's just we're filling out this stupid permit application to allow us to have water from the state they can they can say all right just you know just like you have to get a building permit just like anything else we have to fill out this permit application and we have to do it the way they say or we or we're shut off no we're not shut off because that the the the consumptive use permit is a separate document and it's not to be associated with the water supply plan but you're correct it is a requirement an exercise that the state requires it's a planning level it's not binding because a year from now through the development of Technology and growth and as you know and again as um Jeffrey stated we're really focused on the c um the capital Improvement which is a constant revolving evolving um list and so this is really just a snapshot as of today and when the state's done with it it's not a club that we get beat over the head with it is just basically filed okay that's done for that year we're good yes sir okay it's not it's it's not a master plan it's a I would not categorize this as a and it it becomes part of your comprehensive plan so it's just like the other elements of the comprehensive plan so when land use uh sorry Eddie just to jump in because really you're wearing your hat as the local planning agency right so so think of this through that lens and not as um you know trying to be experts in the field of utilities provision but think about what it is that you're doing you're amending the comprehensive plan element related to uh water service here and then future development approvals you'll look to those comprehensive plan elements to see if those applications are consistent with the comprehensive plan and you've got an underlined strike through and you can kind of miss the forest for the trees a little bit in a report like this because you have a lot of data but there's uh what maybe 8 to 10 pages that show on under line strike through of the changes that are being made to your current comprehensive plan and they're relatively minor there aren't a whole lot of them there are a few new policy uh policies that are included there and underline a few revisions to the existing what this did bring out is it scared the hell out of everybody is it's you know everyone's worried that a lot of people are moving here and we're not going to have any water but this is not the venue for that you're you're your concerns are noted but that's not us but where there's there's going to be hearings and there's going to be comprehensive plans and there's going to be there's how we get water is going to be planned out and what all of this what everyone needs to know is where and when is that going to happen do you guys know that because truthfully poking holes in the ground and sucking out the aquafer is not going to work forever so so as I mentioned earlier we have two requests for qualifications for Engineering Services specifically for the expansion of the water plants in North and South Bard when we hire when a when a engineer is selected we go through the whole due diligence and we look at them as experts in terms of identifying technology what source of water as I mentioned there's surficial there's the uh Florida and aquafer and then we get into and then once we establish that we start Consulting with the Water Management District on location of well depth of well volume that can be withdrawn from the well and that'll all be accomplished then that's through the consumptive use permitting require process and I think there were some questions about you know are you just looking at this in a vacuum or do you consider what Coco and Melbourne and other providers are doing and yes St John's river water Water Management District regionally looks at it and they issue a consumptive use permit to all of these water producers and you can't withdraw more than that and it's part of a regional plan that that looks at the whole amount of water available and how much each water provider needs as far as capacity I do I do want to add something else to this so right now we're dealing with this water supply plan and so a year from now or two years from now it doesn't mean that you know we may have gotten something wrong doesn't mean that we can't go back and amend it to address something that nothing was thought about right now that there was something that need to be tweaked just because we're doing it now doesn't mean that we have to live with it for the 10-year planning Horizon we certainly can go in and update it as needed based on projections or something that we didn't accommodate for in this plan Mr chairman I propose we Mr Robert oh um yeah I like to um recommend approval um with staff to take into a consideration our recommendations if there are no other objections all right let let me hold that motion okay because Mr hopping Gard wanted to say something yeah just one question Ed um we've done these every 10 years or soans I believe the requirement is every seven but I'd have to verify sorry I'm sorry John I didn't hear your question the these work plans we've been doing them every 10 years primarily they cover 10 period update them every fun yeah I don't know I don't know when the last water supply plan was done I would say it's been some time um that's why it's it's really needed that we do this one now um but there's no requirement that it has be you know that we do it every seven we can do it you know before that okay I'm just trying to get some historical background on how well we had planned before to get to where we are now we're going forward for another period I don't know the history but the statute provides for the work plan to be adopted or updated every 5 years and within 18 months after the Water Management District adopts a Regional Supply plan yeah I read that in here okay okay and if I can before there's a second on that motion there was a broad ranging conversation here so just to make sure that staff does what the direction is can any motion that's made that talks about revisions expressly State what those revisions are that that are going to be part of your recommendation because it's going to be hard to pick up just conversation and determine what was actually a recommendation of the board just versus one individual board member talking okay well we've got a motion by Robert Hill yes and the motion is to um approve pending staff's uh election to uh provide uh Intermodal agreements intergovernmental agreements um to list those if they exist just as a reference and also the status of funding I need we got a motion by Robert we got a second by John all those in favor say I any opposed that passed unanimously staff you have any questions for Robert about his motion no I I think um I think it's pretty pretty clear from for my end okay next item please I so item G2 uh is an item for resoning um it's being requested to be uh continued for re advertising okay so you see this at a later date all right then I guess we can say meeting adjourned thank you for your response there the opinions expressed by any member of the public during any period of public comment do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the board of County commissioners of Bard County Florida Space Coast government television or the program sponsor and are solely those of the presenter the board of County commissioners of bravard County Florida Space Coast government television and the program sponsor hereby expressly disclaim any in all responsibility or liability for any defamatory or slanderous statements expressed by any member of the public during any such period [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]