##VIDEO ID:L4w_wtEL4aE## 24 adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meetings Act njsa 10 4-6 on February 7th 2024 proper notice was sent to The Courier News and the Star Ledger and filed with the clerk at the township of Bridgewater and posted on the bulletin board in the municipal building Please be aware of the planing planning board policy for public hearings no new applications will be heard after 9:30 p.m. and no new testimony will be taken after 10 p.m. hearing assistance is available upon request accommodation will be made for individuals with a disability pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act or Ada provided the individual with the disability provide provides 48 Hours advanced notice to the planning department secretary before the public meeting however if the individual should require special equipment or services such as a Cart transcriber 7 Days advance notice excluding weekends and holidays may be necessary could everyone please rise to salute the flag Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible and justice for all Miss propes gra have a roll call please here here here here here yes yes here thank you Miss propest okay to begin the evening um if there are any members of the public that wish to address the board on any land use matter that's not on tonight's agenda please feel free to come forward at this time seeing none hearing none we'll move on we do have a few board minutes for adoption this evening carried over from last time the first set is from May 21st 2024 with the changes made last time are there any further changes to the record hearing none could I have a motion to approve the minutes from May 21st 2024 I'll make the motion to approve second councilman kers Miss Miss sakur could I have a roll call please yes yes yes yes you're present yes yes yes yes okay moving along we do have a set of minutes here from August 13th 2024 once again if there are no further changes for the record could I have a motion to approve the minutes for August 13 2024 I'll move it that's Mr papus a second please second that's Mr banga could I have a roll call please yes yes yes yes yes yes okay moving along for our resolution section the resolution for Gerardo Leonard is pending at this time we do have a resolution for for Kumar realy LLC are there any comments or changes to the record hearing none I'll take a motion to adopt the resolution for Kumar realy LLC motion motion that's Miss chtz second that's Miss sakur could I have a roll call please yes yes no yes yes yes yes the next resolution is for the area in need of Redevelopment also known as the ethicon building and this was decided October 1st and adopted today October 15th could have a motion or are there any changes or comments to the record hearing none I'll take a motion to adopt this resolution I'll make the motion to adopt councilman kersch could I have a second please I'll second that's Mr Papas could I have a roll call please yes yes yes yes yes yes yes thank you Miss probest okay moving along this evening we do have a public hearing for a preliminary investigation of an area in needed R development that's block 221 Lots 1.02 1.3 1.4 2.0 and 2.01 also known as 1200 route22 good evening good to see you again Mike we should probably uh swear sure you swear affirm that the testimony you're going to give in connection with this hearing will be the truth or nothing but the truth yes thank you could you just state your name for the record Michael F Sullivan good evening uh planning board um Michael Sullivan for the record I'm principal with Clark Kon hints in Trenton New Jersey um I'm a principal with the firm and we're also the Redevelopment planner for the township of Bridgewater um my associate Tristan Harrison is here who work with me on the investigation and will be helping me with uh the slides uh that will accompany uh my discussion tonight okay um purpose of the hearing tonight is for the planning board to consider whether the study area which is the greymark office building also known as 1200 Route 22 um 1200 12 uh Route 22 East should be designated as a Redevelopment the public hearings required pursuant to the New Jersey Redevelopment and Housing law uh and this process was initiated by the township Council who by resolution dated August 15th 2024 directed The planning board to study this area as an area in need of Redevelopment um the basis for such a determination is contained within the Redevelopment and Housing law uh and there are a series of criteria that uh you would compare the site characteristics to and if it meets any of those characteristics it would satisfy the criteria um uh Redevelopment area can include not just areas that meet the criteria but also areas that are within the study area that may be necessary for the effective Redevelopment of the area um in summary the uh criteria for redevelopment revolves around U building the properties that may be unsafe or dilapidated or underutilized or have obsolescent or unproductive conditions the preliminary investigation report that you have um and that has been on file uh is a summary of the uh information evidence that we've uh observed with respect to the site and evaluating it for uh as a area in need of Redevelopment and that report is September 2024 so tonight I'm going to provide a summary of our findings go through some slides so that some of the images we can highlight the conditions we've seen out there and uh and then uh you can ask me any questions and I'll answer any questions from the public we related to the study or any of the information next slide so the first slide uh is a is an image from Route 22 you can see the existing office building and it's located uh really the central part of of the of the township but heading out towards the east um put the tax map up please thanks the um the total acreage of the study area is about 28 Acres uh it's composed of five Lots uh lot one block 221 Lots 102 1.02 1.03 1.04 uh two and 2.01 they are all owned by the same owner 1,00 Route 22 land invest s based on the tax assessment data uh only about 7 Acres uh of the site is identified as commercial use but the reality is that some of the improvements uh for the commercial use which is an existing office building extend onto some of the other Lots um but the remaining is indicated as vacant pursuant to the tax data um the the next slide has the Noe back there you go uh it's an aerial it's a uh I believe that's a 2024 March 2024 aerial of the uh of the subject property and and the study area um on lot 1.03 is the greymark office building and this is a 110,000 SQ foot roughly office building uh built in the 80s with a typical masonry slab look with ribbon windows it's occupied by Medical Offices at this time and it's got approximately 376 parking spaces associated with it lot 1.02 which is indicated on the tax rols as vacant actually contains some driveways some storm waterer management facilities that are associated with the existing building um and previous uh efforts at development there uh this includes a storm water detention Basin um and some uh storm water conveyance elements as well um and that is a shared driveway that that uh comes in it splits the Lots in certain places umot 1.04 is a paved contains a paved parking lot with about 58 spaces um that are connected to the existing office development on 1.03 through the circulation um and driveway improvements um and it's a site of a previously um failed uh development uh attempt in the early 2000s um Lots two and 2.01 are smaller lots and they are uh along Woodside Lane and those are um uh small lots are undeveloped and they're vegetated so the existing land use uh context for the for the area uh the site itself has commercial is commercial but this is based on um tax data so you see uh up in the uh the upper left adjacent to Route 22 it's indicated as commercial where the existing office building is located but the remainder of the site is the gray color that's vacant according to the tax rols uh the pink that you see looks pink here uh on the aerial represents commercial uh uses uh the uh the bright pink is the uh Eagles to the to the South and then the public is the um uh right of way uh the yellow are the residential areas around there so it's surrounded by uh some commercial uses corporate uses it also has multif family and uh single family residential as well as the the Eagles adjacent to it Eagles Lodge and the zoning uh is pretty much reflective of that this is in the um the m1b the limited manufacturing small lot District uh which extends to the west from here uh and then around it to the bottom is the residential uh 20 and then uh the along Woodside Lane is the r10 Zone um permitted uses in the uh limited manufacturing small lot zone include business uses manufacturing research Labs um Medical Offices Etc environmentally there are some environmental um constraints on the site on the uh Eastern side of the site is what's known as the cuckles brook which flows from north to south and it has Wetlands associate with associated with it on lot 1.02 it's a non- trout category C2 um classification um it's got intermediate value Wetlands which would require 50-ft transition areas um it's got a floodway and 100-year flood plane on it and portions of lot 1.02 are within those flooded floodways and flood planes um a 2023 survey by control Point Associates which we have uh indicates that approximately 8.8 Acres or 31.8% of the study areas located with those environmentally constrained areas along the eastern boundary um and approximately uh 11 acres is vacant and unconstrained by Wetlands or flood Hazard areas site has a long history of uh development uh attempts let's say um and I'm going to go through them so that we can understand it and yet it remains vacant and relatively unimproved to this day in 1981 there was a site plan and subdivision appr approval for three Office Buildings it was a total of three Office Buildings for 30 336,000 square ft and 1220 parking spaces and that was approved we don't have the plans for that uh the archives just don't have them but we do have uh resolutions and information about that um and it was partially constructed um building one was started this is the building we see there now and the onstream uh storm waterer detention Basin and 377 parking spaces in 1986 and 1987 there was an amended uh plan approval which was partially approved um and building one was completed around that time in 2000 there was an application for an amended site plan and subdivision uh and this is to modify the existing plan to add parking spaces so that the there could be more parking spaces used by the um phase one and uh it changes the layout for phases two and three but no changes to the approved floor area or uses were proposed and that was approved and that resulted in the additional 58 part in spaces that were added to the uh existing office building in 2005 there was an application uh use variant site use variance site plan and subdivision so not a permitted use it was at the board of adjustment um and it was to create two four-story hotels that was denied in 2008 there was another uh application a use variance and this variance allowed for uh a change in the tenant within the existing building and that was approved uh there was no changes to the site related to that in 2014 there was another use variance in site plan and subdivision approval for three hot two three-story hotels on on this property uh it was denied and obviously not constructed and uh most recently um there is a current application pending uh on this a 2023 application filed for use variant site plan and subdivision for a warehouse with a floor area of 179,00 973 Square fet uh 535 loading spaces and 505 parking spaces including Bank parking new storm water facilities uh that has been held it is not progressed and um we are going through this process and depending on this process we'll see where that goes um suffice it to say there have been numerous attempts to develop this site over since 1981 and um despite the fact that there was a three office complex on here only one building has been built um but as you'll see uh as we describe these uh what's out there uh although the tax official classifies these as vacant the property is far from vacant where there has been uh no new development I'm going to go through that um and the next this is the uh 2001 approved sight plan approval which indicates phases two and three for um this site this is the phase one uh this is a 1995 areial which shows the phase one office building you can see that uh this is an infrared aial so The Lawns look red uh the trees actually look green the parking lots are gray and the building is white in the middle but you can see that largely undeveloped uh in the rear and all the development is really up by Route 22 where the existing office building is does appear to be some clearing in the woods at that point this is in 2001 uh and you can see that there's some clearing of vegetation and stor uh for storm water um in order to start moving forward with the 2001 improvements for phase two of this of this of the plan in 2004 uh the U developer made some real uh Moves In order to develop this site and to build phase two and phase three of this site and what you're seeing in this aerial photograph is you're seeing that the vegetation has been cleared the woods has been cleared you can see that to the south of the building to the bottom of the page is a uh a rectangular area of red soil and that is where the building pad was supposed to be it's cleared um and then around that wrapping around it as a dark gray area that's an area that was prepped with a stone base for a parking area um I don't know how many of you guys are familiar with building parking lots but you have to grade it then you put in stone base and then the asphalt's on top so that's the stone area so there was a a significant move in order to um try to build that uh Second phase next so here we are in 2015 and you can see that U nothing's progressed really they're storing steel beams out on the site um uh which is I don't know where they were for whether they were for this site or they from another site but they were stored and they were shown on the aerial but you can see that red soil area is still there and you can start to you can still make out where that uh prep was for the um for the uh parking lot and that's the that's again the uh the 2001 site plan so really mirrors that phase one mirrors what you can see out there in the field what's next there we go um we've diagrammed uh some of the existing improvements out there so that if you couldn't see them with the areial photographs you could see them here so in Orange we're showing the shared uh driveway and the new par and that leads to the 58 parking spaces were the subject of the amended approval on this and you can see that um there are some storm water management elements there highlighted in red uh and there was a Spillway that was modified in that concrete channel on the right side and that's in blue and as we move South uh of that area this highlights the area the yellow indicates where the building clearing was and it still remains that way although obscured with vegetation and also the the red area the pink area shows where there's uh that that stone bedding was put in the subbase was put in for the uh parking area the red lines highlight areas of uh storm water infrastructure pipes and inlets that were installed and that we've actually verified through a survey and on the site uh so I want to give you I've talked about this in the abstract now let's go through some of the images from the from the from the site this is the entrance drive that comes in and this is really a shared driveway with lot 1.03 and 1.02 this is an area uh this is the gravel area where the parking lot was supposed to be built and um you can see that it's starting to get uh successional vegetation in there but if you look closely there are um it's it's gravel right so this is impervious surface that's out there next this is one of the inlets that we found uh you can see that it's been eroded uh down below the base the the Box the box where the inlet grate sits on um and it sits above the grade so there's no water going into that it's not functioning and this is another one this was actually filled with uh silt and sediment and and rocks so that's uh detached some uh this is just storm water uh pipes and elements that are left out there have not been installed this is the existing uh there's a head wall there that goes into a water quality uh Swale that was built um to try to uh clean the water before it got to the brook uh the original application didn't have that this was a later addition and that's uh this is a part of the Basin that's in line with the stream which is an unusual way of doing basins they don't let you do that anymore uh in terms of the D's permissions next that's the concrete Spillway um at one point there you can see there's a little element in the middle that was added to help control flooding here there's been flood issues over time here um in one of the hearings I believe it was a 2015 hearing uh there were um substantial comments on the record from with re residents and neighbors who are very concerned about flooding and and the characteristics of the stream there and we're trying to ensure that no additional um flow or um flooding was caused by any new development next that shows this gravel there's a like a rip wrap area within the stream Carter there at the brook this is more uh you can see that the gravel even though it's there you'll get some successional vegetation through that but it's still out there that shows the as the that's looking back towards the 58 parking spaces that are on uh associated with the um with the office building and it goes from asphalt and then it starts to crumble the asphalt crumbles and it turns into gravel it's really degrading out there it's another storm water uh I believe that's a storm water manhole it might be a sanitary manhole but it's well above grade and it's just sitting out there more pavement degradation this is a you can see some people call these Cattails the you see the little brown bottle brush looking flowers that are on top tyat aolia that is an oblig at Wetland species you only find that in Wetlands this is in an area where there's supposed to be a parking lot um so there's ponding we're seeing ponding out there um which is essentially could be creating new freshwater wetlands on site not just a closeup of some of the broken up concrete and existing gravel and then this is looking back from the area of the building pad that was cleared uh with the uh the soil there and you can see the office building in the background and what we witness out there is that yeah it's exposed gravel it's also starting to create gullies and channels and things like that uh and run off of that soil and this is the edge of that existing 5 58 car parking lot uh shows that uh you know you've got a parking lot that's unfinished you can see that it's basically stacked parking here there's two uh rows for parking but on this side there's no aisle to get to it and there's no curbing there so it just disappears into the unfinished U building area and then we're back to this study area so uh I want to give you that tour of the site so uh as I talk about these things we're not just talking about them in the abstract um what we found out there was that uh there's significant evidence of dilapidation and obsolescence first of all um the existing parking that's uh building and parking area part of a 1981 one approval um the building you see out there was completed around 1987 um the remaining two buildings were not um but construction moved forward um there are partial improvements out there related to this uh the grading installation of the soil separator Fabric in the compacted gravel subbase um rough grading and clearing of the building pad and the inst installation of numerous storm waterer management elements pipes inlets and other and and basins um at some point after this started uh installation and construction ceased um so we assume that that was around 1987 1988 or so um but the improvements that are out there are are related to that 1980 uh or 2001 approval um they are not relevant to any approvals today so they are obsolescent on their face um additionally they were constructed and designed uh prior to the current storm water management rules that ntps has and that have been adopted by the township um the storm waterer management uh elements the the inlets and I was trying to explain this a little bit they were constructed but they're not connected they don't have paved areas that are connected to the great elevation so there's no storm water management going on there even though all this impervious surface was put out there um they're not functioning as they were designed to and to function correctly the entire plan would have had to been built it could not exist uh with a partial build um like that um beyond the obsolescence uh there's a lot of dilapidation out there we saw that the inlets themselves are starting to wash out uh they're filled with soil and um the erosion is looks like it's settling some of these Inlet structures and pipes and that they are not functioning the water quality Swale that was constructed U does not appear to be maintained in any way and it's not clear that that is functioning uh the way it was intended as I showed you the existing pavement that's out there um along that is common to the existing office building and the future phases is dilapidated it's uh eroding um we can see that it's continuing to erode at the edges in many cases there's no curbs um curbing serves two functions provide a stable Edge so the pavement holds together and also to help direct storm water where they do not have curbing on these unfinished areas of the driveway and of the parking areas the run the water runs off it is eroding the pavement and it is eroding the soil um there's cracking and you can see that there are weeds growing up and vegetation growing up in some of the paved areas uh I talked about the ponding uh we see the the the obligate Wetland species in an area right off the parking lot which is basically demonstrates persistent poor drainage related to these improvements and so we're starting to see Wetlands forming where um they shouldn't be forming um we talked a little bit about the erosion uh within the building pad site U that's just where we observed it there may be more areas of erosion out there but we can clearly see where uh channels are starting to form in that area of soil uh it's not stabilized If This Were an approved and constructed plan there would have been uh compliance with uh The Soil Conservation District with respect to stabilization of any uh soil are areas to prevent erosion and sedimentation offsite um so all of those things that we've observed out there are detrimental to the public welfare uh the unmanaged storm water runoff um has the has the ability or the potential to increase runoff we've got impervious surfaces out there that are not being managed from a storm waterer standpoint um the portions of the site that were constructed that building pad where the where the soil is exposed is 1.5 Acres the parking area uh the area of the gravel that was put in as the base is 3.1 Acres that's 4 Acres of essentially unmanaged impervious cover that is not getting to inlets and so there's an increase in runoff um additionally that runoff could be carrying sediment we've got a an area that is not managed from a standpoint of cover vegetative cover and stable vegetative cover so um not only could there be additional runoff but that runoff will contain additional sediment that sediment affects water quality it can ultimately affect the uh flow of water within a stream channel because it starts to clog it up with more sediment in there and that is a threat to health safety and Welfare um with with that um it's clear to me that the elements that are out there the existing constructed uh partially constructed elements of this site um will require some uh expense to remove them should this site be developed again um and it would also provide an opportunity to uh bring the site into the current world of stormw management uh should this be uh designated as an area in need of Redevelopment and the tools available uh by the Redevelopment statute with the Redevelopment statute be utilized here to facilitate U cleanup of the site uh and replanting of the site in a way that would uh alleviate the potent the uh the H the detriments related to the existing improvements that are out there and the lack of storm water management that is out there another detriment to this site is the fact that uh these improvements may be standing in the way of Redevelopment of the property or development of the property um tax assessment data uh indicates that the existing value of lot 1.03 which is where the existing building is located is valued at uh like 10.5 million with with um 4 million in the land and and roughly 65 million in the improvements the remaining Lots um are combined for a total of $4.5 million and zero in improvements so the total assessed value of the study area is $15 million had the original three phases been completed the assessed value is estimated to be roughly $31 million so we're at roughly uh half of that right now and that's a big hit to the tax roles so there is a negative impact tax assessment by not um getting rid of these improvements bringing the site into compliance with storm waterer management regulations and getting this property back into a paying uh and paying its fair share of taxes um and also I will say that uh this is an open site we were able to walk around there with no uh check with anybody we could walk out there we saw evidence of of people who have been out there um and it's an attractive nuisance and if I were out there and I didn't know what I was doing I could easily have fallen into an inlet uh tripped over something like that so that there is a a a safety issue with this it's not fenced off um and it has not been restored in a manner that would protect public health safety and Welfare so it's my opinion that this site does meet the criteria for uh an area in need of Redevelopment U due to Criterion uh d uh because of its obsolesence and its dilapidation that leads to uh detriment to the public welfare and also um Criterion H which is uh some people call the smart growth criteria but sayat of the designation of a delineated area is consistent with smart growth planning principles adopted to law regulation uh this is in planning area one um the state plan was uh built by the state through legislation that uh created the state Planning Commission and uh State planning act and this is an area where growth is planned and Redevelopment is favored uh rather than building on Green Fields so I believe that this also meets Criterion H finally um I do want to say that uh the existing office building is fine there's nothing wrong with it it's active um and the parking lot is fine um but because of the shared access and Facilities between these two namely uh storm water management between the the office site and the undeveloped or partially developed remains of of the site that um even though the office building technically in my opinion would not satisfy the criteria for an area need of Redevelopment I think that it should be included because of the interconnectivity of these other El elements for Access and storm water management utilities and so um I suggest that it should be included for the effective Redevelopment of this area if you do designate it um but that it does not satisfy the criteria itself that's really the summary of the report I'm happy to answer any questions thank you very much Mr s for that detailed report and walking us through the changes throughout the years um does Mr Harrison have any testimony he'd like to give prior to uh opening up to the board for questions nope very good thank you very much I'd like to ask the board if you have any questions for Mr Sullivan pertaining to his [Music] report Mr chairman I have a a few questions and you know want to make sure that I accurately heard everything that was stated certainly in what is a very comprehensive report um one just one question this was not covered uh all the surrounding properties are on City water and city sewer to your knowledge yes okay um and the reason I ask that and I'm going to go into a couple of environmental concerns I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves but I do want to affirmatively State and be as clear as possible that uh as this uh process continues presuming that it continues pass tonight uh there will be heavy scrutiny um on uh environmental um concerns the environmental concerns that exist today as well as uh any impacts positive negative or neutral uh that that that may may occur so um you know this planning board and then ultimately our governing body our our our Township Council uh will certainly have that first and foremost in our minds so just to focus on on a few environmental matters um you'd mentioned that for a period of many years uh runoff is essentially unmanaged did did I did I hear that correctly that's correct okay um and that the property is not fenced right so you know anyone or any anyone could go there at any time really and U potentially nefarious activity or just be wandering around and injure themselves correct yes okay um is there a responsibility of the current property owner to manage that better I I would think so I do not I'm not familiar with any Property Maintenance codes uh in the township all right I I mean you know obviously we're we're we're here to to to to to uh discuss and potentially decide what's going to happen I I I guess um you know I'm troubled that so long so much time has passed uh with with a with a property that is potentially not safe uh for for for people uh and certainly is unsafe for the environment would you say that um in focusing on the portion of the of of the of the property that is not developed for the office building that we would have been better off leaving it untouched rather than starting constru then than this this sort of half you know no question okay and and and that is leading or over time has led to uh potential challenges in in in the area yes okay um and and you know just to kind of state the obvious um you know certainly I think as we proceed we will be particularly concerned about impacts uh to Residential Properties on uh Adamsville Road uh Sunnyside Terrace Woodside and you know to the extent that it expand expands further beyond that so um you know it this will certainly be a a way for us to uh hopefully address this process will be a way for us to address some of the sins of the past so to speak that that have occurred on that property thank you councilman any other questions yeah I just like to add to what uh councilman car was saying let me first clarify you said that uh there's some uh degradation in the building itself on the backside you at least noticed it uh the current building no I what I was referring to was the uh the parking area that serves the current building where that meets the undeveloped partially developed area there's no curbing along that edge and the parking lot is actually starting to disintegrate on those edges also looks like that somebody has developed some storm water but it probably did not continue it because you have uh sewn some three or four pipes that hanging around there but you know not doing anything uh is a plan was there for storm water management or there was a plan There Was An approved plan that included the stormw management it's been partially built right and also do you know the reason why all the three or four times uh nothing has been approved uh what is the major reason for not approving the uh phase two and three well phase two and three were approved in 2001 um the subsequent uh use variances were not granted okay they were use variances for hotel uses okay currently there is a request for warehouse you said that's correct and that requires the use variance as well well oh okay but it has not been obviously approved yet no it's it's uh it's pending is there any complaint from the current residents on the uh what do you call East Side are east or west side some some resident Side Lane yes is there any complaint from them because the storm water management is not managed probably the flood water goes to their uh properties no one's complained directly to me and I didn't have anything in the file that said that but I did see that in 2015 when there was an application P pursued uh before the board that there were uh there there were residents who came and spoke very vigorously about uh flooding uh related to the brook and they wanted that to be protected from flooding okay noral question thank you very much chairman thank you Mr chadre Mr solivan if I may uh perhaps the question would be 2004 it was um a phase 2 began construction they began to create the pad do we have any idea why construction was ceased and suddenly in 2005 a request or a potential application for a four story hotel and lot 104 was introduced I don't have any information as to the motivations of the developers so that original four story Hotel was supposed to take place on lot 104 originally correct two structures on 104 10 10 yes okay yes and roughly 10 years later than the proposition was two hotels on lot 102 incorporating lot 104 and 102 okay um so essentially we're looking at um storm water management structures that were put in 1981 through 1987 no I I believe the storm waterer struct well yes some of them were earlier and then the the the installation related uh to the phase 2 was around 2003 2004 okay how would you say if at all how does building one impact positively or adversely the existing storm water management system that's there in place today does it utilize the spillway and the swes that already in place I assume that it does the existing building the existing I assume that it does okay so the existing building functions without issue as far as the storm water management is concern that's my assumption okay um would you say well another question before I move on the are there any Wells on site or is this Municipal Water that's fed to the site I believe it's public water public water we did not see any Wells on on the survey nor did we see any in the field okay um you mentioned about the ground not being properly stabilized um would you say there's any environmental impact Downstream beyond the site in question that would impact potentially the residential neighborhood that's to the southeast or to the West uh given the fact that there is no stabilization of the soils is some of this runoff since uh those swells are not working right the collection Basin I believe you mentioned there's a water quality swell on the uh on the Northern side southern side sorry um but there's also inlets that are not working the inlet water is not going to the inlets unless you dumped a foot of water on it then then the water or 6 Ines of water then the water might enter some of those inlets not clear that those pipes were all functioning um we saw some of the inlets that were filled with sediment um but there's there's no storm water is not controlled the way it was designed on that site which means that with the installation of impervious coverage you know you've got four acres of impervious coverage now that is not being managed and it's going somewhere so uh and it's not being directed exactly where it was supposed to go so the downstream impacts are there could be increased runoff um you could have an increased rate of runoff in an event you know I'm not an engineer I don't mean to take Bill's uh positions on this but over time uh if there is sediment entering any any water body over time in a persistent manner that can build up and you can actually reduce the flow with within that channel and it could create uh a higher probability of flooding Downstream and lastly if I may uh you mentioned it very detailed in your board uh but could you for the purpose of the board and and the public could you mention or uh shed light as to why the spillway uh structure and the swells that were put in place way back when why today they are no longer they are considered obset by New Jersey um Department ofir protection [Music] the you know the the the current storm weer management regulations require you know no net increase in runoff I mean generally and I you know as I said I'm not an engineer so I know generally about this but they also require green infrastructure improvements and you could think that uh I mean the water quality swell that was put in uh is a form of green infrastructure it's just not maintained or uh and and we're not sure that it was actually built the way it was supposed to be built we can't tell um but um it's changed quite a bit in the last 20 years in terms of what's required for storm waterer management thank you Mr suan any other questions has the property it doesn't sound like the property's really turned into an attractive nuisance yet you said there are some there's some evidence that people have diversity the area but it's not turned into a dirt bike racetrack I didn't see any evidence of that okay um graffiti vandalism nothing like that the only vandalism that I that may have happened out there is to these existing storm water pipes that are just sitting around it looks like people you know broke pieces off and there was a there was a a movable fence that was put out there when there were from What We Gather from the Aerials when the steel was being stored out there there was a fence put up around it like a temporary construction fence um that's been sort of half deconstruct constructed and it's it's over by Woodside Lane um and some of the weights and ballasts that were used to hold that have been like tossed around and things like that okay um any evidence of it being a dump site illegal dumping construction materials very very little uh there there was a little right off the uh off the driveway it wasn't substantial though it wasn't it didn't look like somebody came in with a real dump truck and in your research have you come across any comments about construction bonds being issued in the past no not something we we focused [Music] on uh your report was very thorough very Grim reading thank you thank you thank you Mr mura heard a question on this way I have a question um current building on lot 1.03 would you say that some of the same consist um issues in the other lots are uh affecting lot 1.03 is this soil eroding or you know it's hard when you're out in the field to understand exactly where the lot Line stop uh as I said the the lot line between 1.03 and 1.02 the the driveway comes in and it it really is partially on both Lots um the areas where erosion was most minent was the area where the driveway comes around behind uh the building and then where that edge of pavement is touching or um abing the undeveloped or partially developed area that's where it was obvious other than that you don't see any erosion of the parking lot except in that one back area yeah it's the common driveway I'm not even sure the common driveway has a full has a top coat on it in terms of Paving I I don't know that it's ever had a finished uh Paving coat on it it looks pretty rough but it's been there for a while so I couldn't say conclusively whether it has or not and do you know if all the Lots were sold at the same time to the same I know you said they're all owned by the same I do not know okay and I know you made mention of not knowing if we can hold the the current owners accountable to keeping it at a safe space whether it's fencing or anything I don't do you know maybe this is for um someone else how we can find out who can help us figure out if we can hold them uncountable perhaps we could check with our administrative offices and then I know you spoke briefly about this um but you you talked about creating wet lands currently where they shouldn't be you talked about water runoff is that the biggest impact that could impact the houses that live that are off Adamsville Road yeah I think the I think the the gravest uh impact from This Is The increased runoff from the impervious coverage that is not being managed and during so if it was prolonged for future years what are some other scenarios that could happen leaving this land as is well it's it's hard to say um you know I think that you will continue to have if if it's not ameliorated you will continue to have have runoff and depending on the event the the storm events um could be very bad with the current storm water management systems that are not hooked up or properly what does what impact does that have to our current storm water systems I know you said there's no um knowledge of any um contamination is there any concern that it could cause contamin well the the only I I don't we didn't note any sources of contaminants on site uh the only contamination would really be related to the sedimentation and the sediments that would be carried in that runoff to uh the surface water so surface water quality due to uh sedimentation um and and how the water quality would be degraded from that thank you those are my questions thank you Mr cor M Mr chairman just a a couple of comments based on on things that have come up I think I can shed some light on at least a couple of these items uh first of all um um there has been uh commentary uh about concerns with flooding along the cuckles brook um that that has been uh brought to our to the administration's uh uh attention and perhaps uh when I after I mention my second item uh Mr papis can come back to that one the hotel um applications before the zoning board did those I think you said occurred in ' 07 and in 2014 one was so get my dates and I'm not quizzing you on this based on your answer I can shed some light I want to be accurate uh uh 2005 was the first hotel application and 2014 was the second all right so so I remember that 2014 because I was on the zoning board um and just to shed light for the for those on the day those in the audience um the reason why in a nutshell the reason why that application was denied in 2014 uh is because um nothing had materially changed since 2005 in fact there was no change because in the time between 2005 and 2014 there was a thorough master plan review and um it was decided to leave the zoning as it was uh there there are hotels approved to the east of there I'm not sure exactly where the where the line goes maybe it's as as close as um Adamsville Road but that property was specifically um uh not designated for hotels and then uh the zoning board essentially said hey nothing's changed since 2005 in fact the the the the the governing body has since said no we we don't want a hotel here uh and that was that was uh in a nutshell why um the 2014 uh denial occurred Mr chairman if I can um prompted by councilman kersch but I had been wanting to make this comment U as he the councilman said uh flooding has been a concern there for many of the residents along cuckles Brook Downstream um Mr Burr is here is very familiar with the extent of the drainage issues there and um I appreciate you're pointing out the um extensive incomplete the extensiveness in the of the incomplete um storm management system I hadn't realized that it was as extensive as it was and that as much of that um property had been uh Disturbed and U I can't help to think that uh the the way that uh the area directly behind the existing office building was cleared and the um Stone spread and the likely the um Topography of that that area where the building envelope building the building footprint uh would have been uh certainly doesn't improve the uh the management of storm water of the storm water on that site um so I I appreciate you highlighting that I I uh this has been eye an eye opener for me to Now understand the uh the extent of the system that had been designed that if it had been designed and constructed maybe that would have uh improved the drainage issues um that are impacting those single family homes to the east we're certainly seeing cause and effect yeah yeah thank you thank you Mr Papas Mr chairman if I Mr banga very thorough report thanks Mr solvent really well done just a few questions um what were the conditions of the day when you visited the site and specifically uh around some of the comments storm water just curious Were You There When you know when there was rain or uh as the conditions were a little bit wet so you can kind of determine where the water was running off to or was it was it more it was it was dry when I was there uh you know I was able to walk around it wasn't muddy Kristen you were there and it was raining wasn't it um any comments to uh I guess validating the statements here as it's related to the St water like where the spooling was occurring because I'm just I'm just I'm just asking because the the the conditions of the day were dry as you mentioned right so um identifying kind of where the water was going and in some of the cases if the inlets were you know had set siment into it I'm just um wondering if you can validate some of those stat well in in what we saw out there so first of all um with respect to the inlets when you design an an inlet you know you have the Great elevation and then the great elevation is where the water comes into it right there's no pavement out there the finished grades were never built so if where you let's say where we have the um where you have the the existing gravel area where the parking lot was supposed to go the gravel's here but the top coat of Paving and the base course was never put so the water's not going to I don't need to see water on site to understand that I mean the water would have to be flowing probably 3 in high there to get water to an inlet in most of these places um walking the site you get a sense of the topography you know where the water is going it's all moving down towards um the southeast Corner uh or southwest corner it's it's moving it's moving towards it's moving towards the brook which right it's moving toward towards the back of the property towards the brook right so and there's and and there's some some soil that's been pushed off when they built that building pad that's there but there's no it doesn't mean that the water's stopped it's not impounded we didn't see that but we did see when I when I explained the um The Cattails the tyet folio in the obligate plant that's in an area that's much higher than everything else that's not too far off the parking area and I didn't even have to look to see that the water was there you could see that water had been pooling there but the fact that that plant is growing there is saying that that's got you know Anor robic activity in the soil and it's inundated most of the time if not all the time and um those were the indicators that we looked at um so that's that's helpful thank you um a couple of comments were made regarding the uh the applications uh the went went in front of the zoning board M uh I just took took a couple of square footages there but I think in 2005 was about 161,000 square feet uh 255 U parking spots and then 2014 it was about 150,000 149 853 with 265,000 uh sorry 265 parking lots parking spots M uh and then the most recent application being 17997 in terms of the warehouse um now obviously these were denied I mean probably for several reasons but there was concern from the citizens uh around the STM water impact I'm just curious to get your perspective in terms of if the board does go ahead with this approval um you know not to to make the situation worse let's say if it's going down you know because of the topography to the southeast and it's going to the brook to your knowledge I don't think you said that you've heard anything from the residents or maybe there was some validation from Mr councilman kers in terms of uh what they've heard but I don't think I heard from you specifically that you had heard anything that the current water runoff going into the brook is causing any substantial is that correct I I've heard nothing from the residents directly the only the only documentation we have of those concerns was during one of those applications where was a a pronounced uh I'll say objection to the development due to concerns about flooding and storm water in the BR Watershed and uh stream Carter and then so my question is you know in your humble opinion uh if the board was to approve for reconsideration what would be like the max coverage uh or potentially let's say let's say that you know it was rezoned or whatever the case was and a warehouse was built at the 108,000 would substantial storm water measures be able to be taken to be able to control and alleviate some of the concerns that the that the uh the residents had in both 2006 and 2014 well I wouldn't start with the floor area I would start with what is the what is the performance or the outcome that you want relative to storm water on the site and work back from there I would say you know in my mind you know I would be trying to cure this site I would be trying to bring it up to today's standards and to um and build in some safeguards against flooding and restoration of areas that may have been Disturbed that are in a stream Carter there are areas like that um I would be focused on that first and then what can you accommodate after you do that and how do you do it in a way that meets current standards both state well state and local are the same now but um to do that and and within the framework of Redevelopment that could actually be enhanced you know you could say well you know here's the standards but we want you to do X in terms of the restoration or the benefits but I would work I would work backwards from that I would say what do you want this site to do and how do you want it to function from a storm waterer standpoint particularly as it relates to the the stream and then work backwards and say okay well now we can accommodate x square feet of development if we do that that's the way I would do it that's a thank you Mr and I I just want to remind the board that again the purpose just like the last time we were here the purpose of of this evening's hearing is just to determine whether or not this board's going to make a recommendation to the township Council that this particular study Area Property uh should be deemed an area need of Redevelopment so again it's really the focus is on whether or not this property fits any of the statutory criteria uh set forth that will would uh enable a a property to be deemed an area need of Redevelopment and there'll be opportunities to discuss things like impervious coverage and setbacks and other bulk requirements as a Redevelopment plan if we get that far as that gets prepared Mr chairman I just had one other uh question from Mr Sullivan as relates to storm water management uh it's my recollection that the storm water that travels above ground um and maybe even below ground uh Mr bur hopefully he's listening to either nod or shake his head whether I'm correct or not I believe storm water travels from the opposite side of Route 22 in a southernly or southeasterly Direction and so it's not limited to just the the storm water that that ends up off the site on into that Brook is not just the storm water that is uh generated if you will from this site but it's storm water that is coming from the north right Mr Burr yes that is correct so I don't know if that was evident to you in any of the um materials you had reviewed is you know related to those previous ly U held uh hearings that the zoning board past had had had it wasn't something we focused on but it doesn't surprise me okay thank you based on my knowledge of the topography in the area thank you thank you any other questions from the board I like to ask our professional if they have any questions regarding the testimony Mr bur why don't we begin with you thank you Mr chairman um I don't have any specific spe ific questions but or of Mr Sullivan but I may be able to answer some of the other questions that I've heard from some of the board members um in terms of drainage impacts Downstream of this property um I guess first let me take a step back to Mr Pap's question this drainage area does extend the cuckles brook extends under Route 22 to the north up to the Bridgewater Middle School and then it extends up to Foothill Road so you're drainage area really starts in that section of Foothill Road by the Middle School in merrywood and then extends down under Route 22 through this property we have regular interaction with residents Downstream I I would say this property or clusters of property really is the starting point for where we start hearing from residence Downstream of these properties so uh immediately Downstream adjacent to these properties on Adamsville Road we have a number of concerned residents and then it extends in a southeasterly direction um we hear from folks in the Jamestown area um we regularly hear from folks if you can picture billian Klein and Morton um so there are a number of neighborhoods with people that experience flooding issues experience erosion issues of the cougles brook um debris that that gets lodged on their property that you know obviously causes some flooding issues so there are regular concerns that are brought to our attention it's something frankly that we're constantly taking a look at we're currently exploring some grant opportunities um to see if there's anything that can be done to help improve some of those conditions so you know getting back to the testimony we heard from Mr Sullivan I would agree with everything I heard um this property is is one as you've heard that was developed over the last three plus decades four decades now and frankly the drainage that was installed is obsolete it doesn't meet today's standards uh worse than that the drainage that was installed on lot 102 which is the I guess the the bottom left property that that drainage install was never complete um as we heard it's you know uh you have pipes um it doesn't look like they were they were complete um you have inlets that were not brought to proper grade uh I don't think the entire drainage install based on the original approved site plan was installed uh and then you never you never saw the completion of the site improvements um curbing drainage Etc so it's nonfunctional um there are no formal storm water controls on this property as it relates to that partially completed amount of work there is a swell along the southern property line but the way the property is graded it really just allows all the runoff that hits that impervious gravel to sheet in a southeasterly corner some of it goes in that water quality Swale that really has not been maintained the rest of it comes to the southeasterly corner of the property where it leaves the property and heads towards um um Adamsville Road under the covert of Adamsville so you know it really is frankly not a great situation for storm water I I always look to avoid properties like this that were built decades ago before formal storm water controls were in place because the water really is not detained or managed in any way on the site runs right off so this really is a starting point for us every time I get a drainage complaint it's right there and then we start looking Downstream so I don't know if anybody has any specific questions that's kind of my two cents on the topic but um that's all I have thank you Mr Burr uh Mr core mentioned earlier if you were to leave the site alone and we're talking about the the the ponding that's taking place and a lot of the vegetation that's growing out of it does that ponding if you were to leave it alone in another 10 20 years do that ponding increase and could it cause other issues uh decades from now if sure it could you know it part of the reason that the ponding is taking place is because the site work was never finished the property is also not being maintained so as you have erosion as you have other issues happening sediment other debris is is leaving the site traveling Downstream the changes in the property because of non-maintenance and because the site work was never completed Ed um frankly it's just going to continue to compound so I don't think there's any benefit in leaving it the way it is but honestly um if there were more formal drainage improvements Downstream on the subject property maybe you could make a different argument but that's really not the case here you know the the existing office building that fronts on 22 does have a detention Basin in front of that office building that then drains to an inline Basin on the right side of the property still wouldn't meet today's standards but it was built and met the standards at that time so the front portion of the property was completed from a site work perspective the rear portion was not thank you Mr bur does our board have any questions for our engineer Mr bur I just had a quick question so I'm just looking a look at the uh the study area here I'm just curious um there's like a carve out next to Adamsville Road and then also on woodlon um is the would this owner be able to to utilize that as um like too premature but you know as a potential roadway um you know on to to Adamsville and Wong um I would I would find it hard to believe based on the current lot configuration that you could get access out to Adamsville or Woodside based on the current config configuration if other properties were acquired in any future Redevelopment then anything is possible but the way it's configured currently not likely so just access from Route 22 direct thank thank you Mr banga any other questions Miss Smit thank you Mr chairman um I just had one um kind of addition of information to add to the report it was lengthy as it is but um just one piece of information and that was on page nine which talks about the existing zoning I just wanted to make it apparent to Mr Sullivan or you know a recommendation to add to the report that the um permitted uses were modified recently in the m1b zone um in 2022 um and that's just again it's just an informational addition to the report um and just a recommendation thank you very much miss armid any other questions at this time if any member of the public wishes to ask any questions based on Mr Sullivan's testimony or any testimony heard thus far please come forward at this time John Rolio Levan Washington Valley Road um storm war is a big issue for this site I mean um Ida just destroyed the basements and ground floors of many houses Downstream in cuckles Brook and you seem to be the source of the runoff that's is occurring I mean when you go across 22 you go to the Middle School worst case I remember from about 2010 to 12 I mean if it rain very hard the track would be okay but the spectators around the middle school track would just be you know squishing in in water so I mean that's about U it's not a major problem across 22 so it seems to originate on your property is there any reason why the existing property is not held liable for not maintaining even 1987 or 1989 U storm water requirements why would they allowed to do it I mean I can't okay one down um looking it's at least 80% imp U you know not it's 20% imp permea with parking lot it's it's open ground so this water should absorb it's not absorbing it's running off the property what level of um of stone water manic what percent of this property is going to be part of this uh swamp land which has Cattails on it I mean that's really a serious thing to build on Swamp land I mean it's it's that's something that uh is being addressed I mean I don't see these plans that are go from the planning board but I mean you have to meet much more stringent requirements now rather than what uh yeah the purpose of of tonight's hearing is just to determine whether the property meets CR no I'm just saying you're asking about I'm getting there you know storm water control and things the only the purpose of tonight is just whether or not the property meets anything third issue was you used a word that I just didn't catch to describe why blot 102 should be included in Redevelopment uh you had said it out loud just didn't uh you know maybe I wasn't listen carefully in but you did use a word to say why you would tie lot 102 to L one the other properties Redevelopment oh yeah which which your I just want to just remember the word you use the office building yes you used why you would extend the Redevelopment to 102 which is not really I I I well it's actually 1.03 yeah what's you 1.03 is the office building okay the office building is uh an active okay fine office building with a parking lot and lighting and all the things that go together with that yeah it is not in my opinion meet the criteria for redevelopment however the statute allows for areas within a study area to be included if they don't meet the criteria for a Redevelopment area if they are necessary for the effective Redevelopment and in my opinion because of the interconnection interconnectivity between the Circ the on-site vehic okay interconnectivity fine parking lot and potentially infrastructure I think it should be included in the are inter is that your criteria I guess to um the fourth question is be Redevelopment so I assume that uh the developer is going to eventually mention the word pilot and in this town education is very important we don't like Pilots for the sake of Pilots to take away from the tax base that goes to the school system and the fir uh the fire department and uh any other thing that doesn't get paid out when you get a pilot so is there pilot being considered uh at this time is that one of the not gerain okay I'm just letting you know concerns of uh the body that would address okay I'm just but if you ask a question if you ask a question you have to allow people to answer you can't just ask a question and then ramble on with more opinion making so all right thank you thank you thank you Mr Aro any other members of the public okay that closes the public portion for this testimony board attorney Mr P I believe at this time we could open it up for board deliberations and that's correct and again what the board has to determine is whether or not uh this property based on the testimony uh you've heard and and the report that was rendered whether this meets any of the statutory criteria uh to be declared to recommend uh to the council whether or not this should be declared an area in need of Redevelopment thank you very much Mr P Mr mura what are your thoughts well based on the uh report testimony uh the photographs I certainly believe that uh this project has uh well this property has an opportunity for improvement it's pretty Grim reading the report and the photographs I think are worth thousands of words as in as side uh this condition that it's in was a result of the actions of I believe the developer and for whatever reason the project was not completed and he walked away and for future reference possibly we could ask for a construction Bond to fix the Damage Done by a developer who does not complete a project I don't know if it's possible but I have had some experience in the past with that but certainly um this property has opportunities for improvement that's typically done now uh that that performance and maintenance bonds have to be issued but you know I I don't know what the case was back in 1987 just something keep in mind yeah no for sure Mr Wang thank you Mr chairman um yeah thank you for the S um report and investigation um I this is really um pity that this land has been idled for years um that's not been utilized because of that I think the stop management is not been uh in in a good shape and I hope that of course you know I I I see this um uh satisfy the uh criterian D and criterian uh H so that that's what I hope that this land going to be um you know uh managed um to make the neighbors happy to make uh you know fully utilized thank you Mr sakora um um I'm a little concerned on the ability to hold the current owners accountable to to upkeeping the space because regardless of if it's if we recommend the space is an area in need of Redevelopment I do feel feel for the homeowners um behind or most closely close Le and in conjunction with lot 1.02 um I'm interested to see if we can split off 1.03 from an area need of Redevelopment as I believe that that that that lot doesn't meet the the conditions for an area of Redevelopment but I believe that I am for the other Lots Mr banga thanks Mr chairman yeah no I think the um you know the report that Mr Sullivan had done phenomenal job on this uh just in general you know based on the conditions uh that uh you know we've we've heard today and um especially you know some of the concerns from the residents um you know regarding existing conditions you know we could you know I would support uh consideration in this case to to make the uh as as Mr Sullivan mentioned working backwards in terms of what we would want to achieve in terms of storm water management here um yeah I think we can do a little bit better here and then you know see what we can retrofit with within uh you know these these Lots thanks Mr papus I appreciate uh the thoroughness of Mr Sullivan's report um I can only reiterate what has been said here um the uh the conditions of the property the um previous owners that had obtained approvals that did not complete the approved site plans uh have um brought us to these um these condition s um the the other challenge that we have the township has is that without there being Mr peek and correct me if I'm wrong or Mr burken but without there being any new um site plan uh it's virtually impossible to dictate the uh completion of any storm water management system that may have been designed for this site and U that's a a major concern that that we have so I I do believe that his report has identified the necessary Criterion and uh would support this resolution to the council Mr Atkins I'd like to Echo Miss sora's sentiments about holding the property owners accountable for the dilapidation of the property and I'd like to thank Mr Sullivan for his detailed report um it seems to me that it meets Criterion d uh and I would uh support looking into this property Mr chowri yes thank you chairman um so again echoing the reports are excellent report I mean it's a great engineering report even though you are you may not be the engineers um if the development side development improves substantially under storm water management and also the flooding situation of the residents yeah I think it's uh we should recommend uh to the uh Council for reconsiderations um hopefully at least you know I also like what uh Mr and Mr Atkin says I think we should at least um find responsible for the current owner to maintain some of the things that it is all deteriorating I think that should be at least you know one of the request to them or however the town want to impose it thank you councilman kersch uh thank you Mr chairman um you know I stated earlier that this was a very thorough report uh certainly uh takes into account all the relevant uh f facts uh and um commentary about the property its history its condition uh certainly this is a case where you know in Bridgewater sometimes you learn something new every day um I obviously knew that this property was uh adjacent to the cuckles brook but um you know didn't really put oneon-one together that the uh partial clearing or or really the clearing and then the partial development of this uh is making a bad situation worse uh I guess my view is that um you know presuming that we continue down this pathway that will hopefully uh be a way of uh of fixing uh the um uh environmental uh challenges of the past in the event that we do not redevelop this property I think that the township uh does need to seriously consider uh going back to this property owner and and uh identifying every uh possible recourse that we have for um uh for fixes so that uh whether or not this property is developed um the environmental U uh uh the environmental conditions uh will be improved so that that's that's my feeling but I do uh accept the report as written uh and and we'll vote to uh recommend that we proceed to the next stage of the process Miss chtz uh thank you to Mr Sullivan Mr Harrison for the very thorough report um I did drive the site um both sides and I did note a lot of the same condition that you reported um I even noticed that on Woodside Lane that there was a little path that people had just walk through into the parking lot so whether there was evidence of vandalism or whatever it's just like you said it's an open site so people can come and go as they please I would say that due to the dilapidation that's stated and evidence in the low maintenance um of the property and it's you know over 20 acres that's there that by you know improving that storm water management and designating this as a Redevelopment area would also improve our tax role if we could get this up to be whatever we could get it to be um and I also am in agreeance with Mr cor regarding lot 103 I'm not fully in support of that lot because it did seem to be up and running and I think you know I saw people coming and going to the medical offices as well so um but overall because they're all together and they've been conveyed together in I think in 2020 2022 um that they would be considered um Al together so I would be in support of this as well I think that just leaves me and uh yeah thank you Mr solvin for the very thorough report as well as the public commentary um not having been familiar with this site or not having seen uh any of these plans throughout the years it's surprising that it's deteriorated to this extent I can only imagine what the effect Downstream has been been throughout all these years um and and supported by some of the public testimony that we heard also this evening um you know it's clear based on your report that it meets a criteria D you know essentially deleting some deterioration dilapidation obsolescence of uh the storm water management but also uh to a lesser extent Criterion H we talk about smart growth planning we have Route 22 major arteries nearby shopping centers so there's also a smart growth planning element to it as well so uh we didn't touch upon that much but um I do however believe that uh lot 103 I was wondering as well whether or not that should be included in the site but uh I I did ask Mr Sullivan a question whether or not it was tied into the existing storm water system and it is it seems to rely heavily on that sort of storm water management system so I think I would probably leave it as the entire site um but other than that without echoing uh the rest of the testimony that we've or the uh the um the other comments that we heard up here this evening I would also be uh in favor uh to send to the council uh for designation as an as an area in need of Redevelopment um so with that uh Mr P uh we have to open this up for approval and what would the condition be there is no condition that what the board's deciding is whether or not to make a recommendation uh to the council whether or not this should be an area deemed an area need of Redevelopment so we would would need a motion to either make that recommendation or to not make that recommendation Mr just a quick question Mr chairman if I may so um I think there's some conversation at least from the board members that 103 is a question mark I don't know if that could be a motion too if that needs to be a motion itself or if everybody was unanimous to declare the entire site but just a I wasn't clear on who said it should be who said it shouldn't be should it be a consideration before we present this back to the that could be that could be a motion uh as well you know to to you know deem all the Lots except 1.03 uh as an area in need of Redevelopment Mr solvan did indicate that that site was necessary I guess for the functioning of the storm water infrastructure and whatnot um on the entire site said standing alone it wouldn't qualify but it's integral to the other just a question for either Mr pek or Mr Sullivan or or you know any you know um anyone else who has expertise here um presume that we that we do designate the full area um just because an area has been deemed in need of Redevelopment there may not be even one shovel full of U dirt changed on that portion of the lot correct that that's correct you know my my recommendation is really based on and uh the interconnected nature of it with respect to vehicular access and shared parking areas and Facilities um Mr burs indicated something that I wasn't really thinking about was that the storm waterer management is on a separate lot it's on like 10 1.02 not on 1.03 so it there's an integration or interconnectedness uh with storm water management as well too should the rear of this property lot 1.04 be redeveloped and that includes stormw management there may be modifications necessary that impact and go up stream to that office building so if it's not in a Redevelopment area and there are issues related to zoning or access or things that you trying to solve it makes it a little it may make it a little stickier to deal with would we have to start the process restart the process again or redo certain portions of the process say I'm not saying that you would have to go back and designate it again you you could but if there are logistical coordination between access or storm water or other elements that we don't even know yet because we don't know how this site may be redeveloped um we just wanted in my mind because of those relationships it could be included even if you're not envisioning wholesale Redevelopment of that particular property and and ultimately as this process um continues and you know we're now seeing this on other properties in Bridgewater um whether it be you know this body whether it be the township Council through a transparent process with input from the public uh at a later time if the will is to say uh that spot is not that area of the of the of the property is not going to be considered uh for other uses there is certainly still that opportunity to do it correct right when you develop a plan for this you will dictate where and what and how much and how big and how everything's going to be built here it's like a mini master plan a mini plan development and there's no obligation to add any use or buildings to that property just because it's included that portion of the property portion of the studa but it does leave the door open to the extent that there could be questions about access to the property uh um drainage and things like that it leaves the door open yes and in your in your mind is that generally a best practice in a case like this when we're looking at these we really look at the location of things and and I think as as a planner you don't want to cut off your options before you have considered your options the you want the the largest possible area with which you may want to expand a driveway or put in storm Water Management uh elements or tie into something um so I think it's a very good practice to do that uh and particularly in this case specifically this case I think it would be a good practice or a good move to do so that's why I includeed in the report Mr Sullivan just to an ask you address that in a different way if this if this lot with the that's developed was excluded do you think that would be a mistake I think it would it would limit the options for how you deal with these uh elements that will be shared between that property as it exists now and whatever happens on the partially developed lot thank you Mr Sullivan board attorney Mr pek with enough discussion being placed around lot 103 uh we should probably have a motion that includes lot 103 as part of the uh designation as an area of Redevelopment well people can make a board member can make whatever motion they choose to make um you know and based on Mr sant's testimony it would be you know all just to declare the whole study area in area need of Redevelopment but if somebody wish to make an alternate motion uh that's certainly their right it would have to be seconded um once seconded then it would have to be voted upon Mr chairman may I make maybe a slightly different suggestion on how to reach the same conclusion do you want to just ask the will of the board board whether they are comfortable including or excluding just so you'll have a sense of where the support is I think that would suffice okay all right well I I'll I'll start off by saying that you know given given this conversation and the necessary flexibility um that we may we may look for later I'm in favor of including uh 1.03 the entire area that has been under uh consideration uh uh by Mr Sullivan okay start on this side Mr papus I think we need to include the entire property including lot 1.03 for the reasons that Mr Sullivan stated Mr Wang I think the entire the entire we include the uh 103 Mr mura yes I concur that it should be included Mr cor um I'm back I'm back in fourth I I agree with what Mr suan has has stated it's just I have a hard time wrapping my head around the recommendation for that one lot however when looking at storm water management being able I understand the issues that could arise with changing what needs to change in all lots that I would be in favor of all i' be more in favor of removing .03 Miss Char I think given the discussion and the fact that that 1.03 has a direct impact on the other lots that I would be inclined to include it Mr banga yeah I think echoing um echoing the sentiments here I think more the concern is more around storm water I think the access is definitely there if you take take a look at the right side uh so it's less about the access I think you talked about interconnectivity uh which I do agree to an extent uh but I think when lot 104 was being redeveloped there you know the road kind of did carry through uh so I'm back and forth as well um I I think I you I I would be support of for 103 as well uh just based on you know the conversation that we've had so far Mr Atkins I'm back and forth as well if you can't tell um if the question is about accessibility from lot 103 to 104 um would the say there are two different owners of 103 and 104 would the owner of 103 not be required to provide access to 104 May a question for Mr pack if 1.03 were part of the Redevelopment plan then that would all be integrated if for whatever reason 1.03 were cut out and you could still have a Redevelopment I mean you'd have to unless they could get an easement over 1.03 um I think they'd have to make alternate PL okay i' I'd lean towards supporting it Mr Chow well it looks like that we are all in the same boat here today we have we are not extremely sure that whether it is a revelop or St but at least you know giving that us testimony uh I'm on the same boat that you know whether if we don't develop one or three together then accessibility may be a problem if you do develop it at least we are sure that there will be some accessibility in in that tin line I'm with everybody let's at least do four recommendations for all including 103 I agree Mr chowri and I also made my thoughts note in my previous deliberative statement um that being said uh board attorney Mr P I believe we have our straw poll here has been conducted uh essentially we would need uh a motion then uh to recommend that the full site um the study area the study area the study area uh be recommended to council designated as an area in need of Redevelopment correct and that being said who would like to make that motion a motion that M Charis M Char and I'll need a second second that's Mr banga Miss probes could I have a roll call please yes yes yes yes yes me yes that's all right yes yes yes yes thank you very much Mr Sullivan once again thank you very much for your detailed report and walking us through the changes throughout the years thank you okay moving along this evening our application portion for the evening uh there will be only one application this evening as H hulia has requested adjournment to December 3rd we do have Chick-fil-A here however on block 164 lot 6.05 commonly known as 754 Route 202 and who will be representing the application this evening good evening Mr chairman Michael silbert from the law firm D Francesco baitman located in Warren Township and I have the privilege and honor this evening of representing Chick-fil-A Inc so um it's the first time in my career I've ever uh sent out notices and got phone calls of people calling me with excitement for a development application that's certainly a first me um before I I introduce the application I just want to confirm that uh notice is adequate um sufficient and that the board has jurisdiction here this matter uh with Mr PE if that's yeah I didn't I didn't see any problems uh with what was provided okay thank you appropriate to proceed okay um so the uh applicant this evening is Chick-fil-A Inc the property is block 164 lot 6.05 uh more commonly know to 754 Route 202 um the applicant is seeking preliminary and final site plan approval with bulk variance relief uh property is located in the M1 Zone um just little background information the property it consists of 54.3 Acres it's a shopping center with multiple pads um it was part of an original uh development that consisted of 84.3 acres and is being treated uh in accordance with the original track size and that's all in accordance with the uh Township's requirements um one thing I would say is uh that to my knowledge this is one of the one of the only properties in Bridgewater that permits drive-throughs as of right so um chick-fil is proposing to construct approximately 5,000 foot Chick-fil-A restaurant with a drive-thru on the commercial pad um in the location of the former Ruby Tuesday's restaurant uh that restaurant's been vacant since approximately 2018 it's a full Demolition and construction of a new building um I'm not going to provide it too much of a of an introduction here I'll just go through some of the variances that are being requested requested as I had mentioned there are some variances so um we are requesting a front yard setback variance for parking where 100 ft is required and where 19 .3 ft is proposed uh I believe this is uh was a variance that was previously granted however because the building is coming down we're seeking it again and our engineer can address if if that number is changed in any way due to the canopy uh we're also seeking a sidey yard setback with respect to parking uh again 100 feet is required whereas 48.9 ft is proposed again that variance was previously granted but again uh new building here uh we're seeking variance relief for the proposed signage wall signs are limited to 5% of the building facade or 100 sare ft whichever is less we're proposing three wall signs and we're seeking 153.16112 and we're requesting some variant to Lea with respect to landscaping for the number of trees um so I'm taking a little different approach this evening to the application given the joint review memo that we received um from the board's planner and engineer a lot of operational questions um so Mr chairman if it's if it would be okay with you I'd like to actually call as our first first witness John Martinez Martinez he's the senior development manager for chick-fil then we would move on to our to our engineer Jeff Martell um followed by Hill he'll address uh obviously the site plan uh he can answer questions on the architectural plans and elevations you see and then followed by Patrick Downey uh our professional traffic expert and then to conclude I have uh Matt Flynn from McDon planning Associates here to provide the planning testimony so um just uh I don't see the exhibit up but we actually we we can introduce the exhibit when you come up there so we could have them all sworn in as well actually yeah want do you want to do that now yes great thank you and then when uh after we you know affirm or swear uh then just in order State and spell your names for the records so right hand you swear or affirm that the testimony you're going to give in accordance with this hearing will be the truth or nothing but the truth okay starting with the fella in the back of the red tie as long as you can be heard John Martinez m r t NZ thank you very much thank you Mr silbert thank you and uh just a couple things I I thought the board should be made aware of um just when they are considering this application there is a pending application in Hillsboro for a trick Fila at uh at the zoning board I have nothing to do with it and um just making the board aware that there is another Chick-fil-A that will hopefully be opening in the uh Rel in a relative close proximity to this location um other thing that I just wanted to mention our engineer will certainly speak to it is that um there's there's cross parking uh availability so while the restaurant is on the proposed to be on the pad um employees and patrons have the ability to park Elsewhere on the site it's not secluded to the to the pad um other thing I just wanted to address briefly um the Fire review memo dated September 11 2024 which we received October 10th 2024 um to address some of the points raised in the memo I actually had the opportunity to meet with Xavier uh Alvarado he's the uh assistant fire inspector and and assisted um Mr scair and preparing the report I met with him in person o on October 11th and um one of the things I asked for clarification on was the his review letter suggested that the um green null firetruck had to Traverse around the drive-thru Lane and that would not be possible based on what we're proposing what um Mr uh Alvarado was able to clarify was that the firetruck just needs to have access into the commercial pad it doesn't need to have the ability to circulate around it and um so as much as the people on the uh on the on the ladder truck there might want to stop for Chick-fil-A while they're in the truck they're not going to be able to do that um so that's been clarified so I just wanted to to to say that I think we're able to work through um a number of the concerns or issues raised in the Fire review letter um most of the comments in the uh joint review member require testimony the comments uh that don't require testimony the applicant can comply with with all of them um Mr pre I can list them if you want now uh or we can you want a list um yeah well what are there more of pretty much everything that says no uh testimon is not not needed if it's just asked for a plan revision or applicant shall comply with this we can comply with it so there's no just identify which which comment sure the testimony is going to okay okay and see if there's anything else I think that's that's said I think I'm able to to call my first witness um uh Mr chairman with your permission um um I can uh actually already been sworn so I did want to bring up a couple of of the exhibits and have them up for the board for their review so if we can have the um the colorized site plan aerial it's up there okay it's okay so I we're not doing um computer's fine right yeah computer thank you thank you and uh Mr Martinez if you would uh be so kind can you just introduce yourself to theard I can I assume everyone can hear me uh again John Martinez I'm a development manager with Chick-fil-A I've been in this role for about 10 years but I've been associated with Chick-fil-A since about 2001 been involved with most of the new store development uh here in uh in New Jersey as well as Pennsylvania New York uh Delaware Virginia Maryland uh in my role as development manager I'm responsible for finding uh not finding locations but once location locations identified developing the plan uh putting the team together uh making sure we comply with both shopping center requirements or proper requirements as well as Municipal requirements including uh do requirements and so in my uh my looking at this site that's that's what I've done I'll kind of take a little step step back kind of tell you a little bit about Chick-fil-A so it's a privately held company uh we have about 3,000 restaurants throughout the country in fact we just opened our 3000th one uh earlier this year um all the sites we develop are um chosen by Chick-fil-A so we don't have preferred developers we find our own our own sites we either purchase them or lease them the Kathy family uh owns Chick-fil-A and with that once we do design a site we construct it we do then end up um having a franchisee or an operator come on board so we partner with an operator but unlike a typical franchisee relationship that may have a territory or multiple locations if you're chosen to be a Chick-fil-A operator you get one store that's it that's the one location now if you've proven yourself over many years you may be oper have an opportunity to get a second store but it's not a guarantee the vast majority of Chick-fil-A were operated by one individual that individual is not uh decided here in Bridgewater um we get probably in the neighborhood of 50 to 60,000 people a year that apply to Chick-fil-A to become operators and of that we only choose about less than 100 um this year we'll open 145 locations and uh so it's it's pretty it's pretty we're pretty uh selective on who we we uh find and there's a reason for that is is really our success it's because we're finding an indiv individual that is very motivated from a business perspective um to to uh Drive the business but more than that is really interested in building a team building in the community so the operators typically are uh have a connection to the the store location whether they live there currently or they grew up there um that's what we're we're looking at quite often we'll see especially in like New Jersey um we're relatively new here in New Jersey we only have maybe 40 45 uh stores and so a lot of Chick-fil-A operators that may have been raised in Jersey have left they actually come back to their Hometown to to operate the store so it's pretty exciting to to be involved with that um the store itself um is as uh Michael indicated it's just under 5,000 square feet it's 49.89 um it's a one-story building uh we'll have somewhere in the neighborhood of up to 90 SE or so 92 seats in the on the property uh probably about 20 of them would be maybe for outdoor seating but the rest would be inside uh the store itself um is is really what I would call the latest and greatest that we've were doing so there was a significant change at Chick-fil-A during CO as we all experienced Co was a challenge and it it was a challenge for us but in in a different way our our business quite honestly exploded during co uh we were able to stay open through our drive-thru and it really introduced the brand to a lot of folks and while that's great for business it certainly was a challenge from handling cars perspective um I'm sure you've all seen YouTube videos of cars lined out the streets um but one of the things we realized right away during covid is we were testing something called dual Lane fulfillment um and the locations that we had it in in parts of the country mainly in Texas where we had that operating during covid it was remarkable how we handle the traffic so essentially uh and we have it on this plan as you'll see there's two full Lanes going around the entire building um unlike some other competitors even what Chick-fil-A used to do prior to co we used to merge the two lanes into one and go to a pickup window will we no longer merge those Lanes so the obvious question is hey well that's great for the inside Lane that gets to the window but what do you do on the outside Lane so essentially Chick-fil-A has taken out the drive-thru window the typical window you see at other locations and we replaced it with a door a bfold door similar to you'd see at at a pharmacy or supermarket and so we walk the food out to both lanes and what that does that gives us the ability to uh to not only um provide food quicker but it also allows us to provide better what we feel better customer service to our customers are in the Drive-Thru Lane a drive-through business is about 50% of our sales so it's an important factor to us it's not the only thing that we do but it's an important thing so we definitely want to make sure that we give um good customer service to the folks that are in the cars visiting uh us through the drive-thru um this design is relatively new but it's not uncommon here in New Jersey so uh since uh covid i' I've been uh this what our designs have been in fact Bridgewater originally wasn't this design we actually modified it D our planning to incorporate it uh but we've opened this in locations that are extremely high trafficked so uh in my mind I I've grew up here in New Jersey my mind probably Route 17 and Paramus is probably one of the most busiest roads that we have in New Jersey um so we recently opened a store uh the old fireplace if you're familiar with it it's in a Jug Handle on Route 17 uh with an access point off of 17 and to the best of my knowledge there has not been any traffic backup on to 17 because of the store and it's because of this dual Lane fulfillment is really uh a significant Improvement to that additional to that one of the other things you'll notice is the building's fairly large at 5,000 square fet um a lot of this building is kitchen so we the other thing we learned is we need to have a kitchen that can support sales so this building will have enough friers and all that equipment the technical equipment to supply uh that Chick-fil-A is open uh 6:30 in the morning uh yes we do sell chicken for for uh for breakfast uh not a big big seller in the Northeast but it's it's really filling it's really good and we close 10 o'clock at night Monday through Saturday uh will be closed Sunday here and that's a a company policy um we have uh deliveries uh we do get deliveries every day uh pretty much of of fresh uh baked bread of uh vegetables uh but that comes in a small box truck we do get tractor trailer deliveries that come approximately four times a week um but they come at night when we're closed so after hours um we have a key drop uh type facility where the drivers will gain access to the building after all of our team members have left and they will put that product inside uh the store itself has somewhere in the neighborhood of uh between 80 and 100 employees or team members as we call them I'm sorry how many 80 between 80 and 100 total employment yeah so it's a it's a very heavily um labored um operation so unlike some of our competitors that are probably adding more and more equipment and and robots we actually add more people um not all those people are full-time of course um it's up to the operator who who they choose but we find that typically about half the people are full-time and half are part-time On Any Given shift the the maximum we would expect would be about 25 people uh but operators are very flexible with their with their team members on on the hours they work um and so uh that's where we would look the site here our least area is is about 1.2 acres and that has about 45 or so parking spaces 44 40 it's actually 44 parking spaces but technically how New Jersey calculates parking now with EV we have 45 spaces um we also have cross parking with the shopping center so the expectation is all of our team members will be parking off of our pad freeing up quite a bit of that space for for customers one of the one of the concerns that um is raised by other other U boards is you know how do you handle that pent up demand that initial grand opening so Chick-fil-A has a process in place where when we are going ready to open a store we actually bring in team members from elsewhere from the other 3,000 stores across the country so it's a really good opportunity for someone that lives in you name it Iowa to get a chance to travel paid by Chick-fil-A to come to a store uh here in New Jersey in the in the New York Market um and to uh help train staff so that's a real important part of of Chick-fil-A we'll bring in probably 20 30 folks uh have them here for the first couple of weeks and it really serves two main purposes one is it helps train the new team members on on Chick-fil-A service you know the my pleasure all those types of things how how to do it and it also helps manage um the the the customer demand the pent up demand um so that's something that that it's really important to Chick-fil-A to do the other thing that we do is we work with the local local police um and the expectation is we'll work with your local police to have some off-duty officers also be ready there um on site to help I'll say not necessar control the traffic but certainly keep the peace keep people calm um while while they're getting on site um to do that we'll also have a grand opening uh traffic control plan that will develop with your town uh as we go through this process we'll share it with your your engineer your traffic engineer and certain police to develop um a method of of handling that traffic so what we found and this is this is based on my personal experience for probably opening two to 300 chick-fil-et is that when we have that grand opening it's the it's a perfect storm of new employees not necessarily knowing what they're doing customers that don't necessarily know how to get around and a lot of demand and so we'll kind of come up with what we call is a kind of the worst case scenario for how to handle drive-through traffic because essentially that's usually what is the the attention getter is the drive-through backup so we'll work with the with the town and have a plan that will essentially kind of take away some of our on-site parking spaces convert that to drive-through stacking and we'll be able to uh stack quite a few cars so my traffic engineer will talk more about this the specifics but essentially our dedicated drive-thru link handle 29 Vehicles so there can be 29 customer cars in our parking in our drive-thru Lane without affecting our parking lot at all uh when that 30th and 31st car comes um there's room for them on site but in this grand opening plan we're going to actually allow them to stack another 10 cars by taking out some parking spaces so we'll get to about 39 cars on site without really causing any effect we have the ability to even increase that further and during grand opening we will probably actually do that as well we can get to somewhere in the neighborhood of upper 50s of cars parking on our site without affecting one drive aisle in the shopping center um customers would be then directed if they don't want to go and wait in that line they would be directed to park in the parking lot The Shopping Center parking lot we're as you'll see on the site plan there's sidewalks that we're proposing that aren't there today that will allow customers and team members to access other parts of the parking lot uh to come to the chickf again that I want to assure you that that pent of demand is something that occurs initially couple of weeks and it really dies off um and um and as that traffic starts to get managed by our team members to get more experienced customers know what they're doing we will then re reintroduce parking on our site as we go through my expectation is that as time goes on um we won't even need that gr traffic control plan anymore but it will be on site so if if something happens a special event happens or something they that operator will be able to pull the trigger and Implement that as we move forward a few other items I just wanted to um touch base on um we also are showing canopies on this site so there are two uh canopies that are are shown on the site one is over the meal ordering area and the other is over the meal fulfillment area these canopies have a height limitation of 9 fet so has a clearance bar 9 foot can go through there so it can take most most vehicles and these canopies are essentially there to um allow these our team members to be outside delivering food and taking orders in all types of weather whether it's raining honestly really the biggest issue is Sun uh heat for for them there's an area shade and that allows then all weather um the ability for all weather order taking so you may have seen a sar chickf team members outside with iPads we we'd expect that here as well to take that or order as well as delivering the food they can deliver that outside so those canopies are an important part of of providing good good working environment for our team members um other things you know we do have uh trash dumpsters on site both a trash dumpster and a recycling dumpster they get uh picked up well they get picked up as needed we typically start with every other day uh for trash but if the B Store is that busy we can certainly move that to Everyday pickup there's an eight for those who are interested there's an eight- yard container inside this trash enclosure so it's a fairly large uh enclosure we also uh recycle other products besides cardboard um specifically uh oil uh gets uh recycled um we actually have to keep that inside of our store um we use a Dar Pro system so think of your home hot water heater an 80 gallon hot water heater that's essentially where the darpro system is um believe it or not that actually gets stolen out of if we KT it outside um because it's a valuable product so we actually sell that back to a a recycler um and I mentioned that the the deliveries already so I think I've hit a lot of the operational questions uh Michael great job so most of my comment questions for you were were answered there and uh uh if you if you didn't already mention it what what are the typical peak hours for boy great question so um we measure uh basically there's five times that we measure so we have five parts of the day we have morning I can tell you that's extremely slow um you'll have more traffic uh probably at a closed store then you will have a Chick-fil-A uh but our lunchtime is fairly busy since covid there's actually a new day part it's actually the time between when when lunch stops and dinner starts the afternoon is actually a fairly large uh time for us and then uh dinner time here I would uh in um Bridgewater we would expect that dinner would probably be a fairly busy time but generally our Peak is Saturday at lunch so Saturday at lunchtime from about 11 to 1 two in the afternoon is is the the busiest historically for Chick-fil-A thank you and um we spoke about it today I'm bringing it up simply because it was in the report um can you talk a little bit about curbside pickup and uh mobile ordering I know we had SP about it it's in the it's in the report so I just want address it um so Chick-fil-A has uh we equip our operators with multiple ways of serving customers and what I mean by that is they can serve them at a counter inside the store there's dining in we allow takeout we have a drive-thru uh we have areas where you can have curbside pickup so we give a lot of potential options we have mobile we have an app so customers can order on their phone and go pick it up uh we also can participate with third parties you know your door dashes your Uber Eats um however uh we encourage new operators not to turn on all those channels at the same time because it overwhelms their staff it overwhelms everybody so um they gradually bring on those channels as they get more and more experienced so I I want to assure you that Chick-fil-A has the ability to control how we deliver and and we we sell our product um and it's more important for us to have a good experience for our customers than just to turn it on and just sell everything all at once it doesn't it doesn't do us good so things such as curbside pickup are actually kind of almost going to the Wayside we have the ability to do that but it's not actually the most common so typically on a something like that curbside pickup what you you you previously saw as a curbside pickup um with Geo fencing and if you don't know what that is it's essentially the way you you you track someone's cell phone we have the ability to determine when that individual comes onto our property and where they Park I mean you can get down to the literally within like this parking spot and so um what we we if we wanted to we could bring the food out to them but typically we still have them actually just park and come in and pick that up um so so things like curbside pick up in in all those numbered spaces are kind of starting to go away from from Chick-fil-A we we do still use that in some locations but that's not we're not going to necessarily designate a whole bunch of spaces with those kinds of signs thank you and um just uh preface my my question so would you agree that a lot of uh fast food operations or drive-through operations if they have what I'll refer to as a queing mitigation plan they implement it on an as needed basis would you agree with that uh yes but you're saying no matter what you're coming into the to the site here and you're going to have a plan put in place whether the pent up demand is there for grand opening or not you're going to have a plan in place no matter what that's correct so so essentially what we've learned is you know we go to using a milit we go to DEFCON 5 at first and then we back that down so we'll do that for for a minimum at least the first week to understand what people's patterns are and then we'll start to back down that that mitigation and I say this to you just to give you a level of confidence that Chick-fil-A is is here to to to manage that uh I know Michael mentioned that we're looking at other locations like like a Hillsboro but e even more importantly what Chick-fil-A does is we don't necessarily just build a store and then and then leave it and walk away um we we'll go back and invest heavily and reinvest in our stores so the the first store for example that I did here at freestander in New Jersey was in Hamilton Hamilton Marketplace it was a very prototypical back in the day how you did a a drive-through restaurant um we actually have just closed that restaurant and built another one behind it in that same shopping center and opened it up with all this same technology um trust me you know we hadn't even you know we we hadn't even written off the investment on that that's important you may be familiar with probably the closest store here is Flemington I would imagine that's the the closest one and again that was built with almost none of what I talked about on the technology side but we're actually just got approved from from Flemington and we're going to be closing that store and I think we may have already even closed it actually to go there and Implement a lot of what I just talked about these dual Lanes so Chick-fil-A is going back and implementing that where we can um where we physically have room to do that whether that involves leasing more space we're it's it's really important to us to provide that good customer service so I I definitely want to impress upon you that Chick-fil-A is here to be a good neighbor uh in Bridgewater we've been looking for a long time to be in here I can tell you for sure it's been a many years I I even before I was in this role 10 years ago we were looking in Bridgewater so so we're excited to be here and we definitely do not want to wear out or welcome bridgew thank you Mr Martinez and I would turn it back to you Mr chairman and the board for for any questions yes thank you Mr Martinez for that background uh any questions from our board members M Martinez I have a question M chood most of the time when we frequent Chick-fil-A you see on the highways a sign that says okay this exit Chick-fil-A I'm assuming that because this is about like 6 miles off of the highway there won't be a sign on 287 or whatever advertising that there's a Chick-fil-A in this location is that accurate um that's more than likely accurate yeah so so those Highway wave finding signs um there's a a group at the Dos that handle that and we have actually folks that handle it for Chick-fil-A uh they're on a first come first serve basis and it's literally based on whoever closest to the exit gets on there at being at six miles I would not anticipate that being the case okay any other questions yes Mr chairman sh okay first of all uh way you are explaining it actually even though I don't eat chicken probably I you are tempting to me to eat the chicken so here are a few the questions for this may not be exactly related but you said that you will have a 44 parking spot on on in within our least area there's 44 uh spaces okay then and then we have cross access to the rest of the to the shopping center for for additional parking and how many assuming that you are not discarding the carbite pickup how many generally in general how many you block for a Carside pickup parking spot do you do you reserve any caride pickup parking spot um we we typically don't necessarily res Reserve that for that we have in the past right um uh but we don't necessarily serve for for specific for for for parking cars and walking food out that's that's question so you don't have but this site is set up that that could be done right um but if we were to do that it would be very very few we' be we'd be that way more than likely um customers that that have mobile order or ordered in advance will walk in to to pick up the food okay as probably you have seen I'm by the way it is very close to my home so I know that plays very very well uh wagmen generally have a lots of traffic on during the Thanksgiving time I mean you know you cannot even pick a parking spot even up to the you know the furniture store there so have you plan on a giving that situation have you plan on a Thanksgiving how you're going to handle the Thanksgiving traffic uh especially on the Friday Saturday Sundays U for because that way you probably have a maximum flood of the people there as well as car how have you T about Thanksgiving and probably in you know uh Mother's Day and Thanksgiving those two days will be a tremendous traffic even for wagmen sure so um what what I will say is that can easily answer one of your point so we're closed on Sunday so that week part that part of the week half the weekend we're we're closed okay and that's not going to change as long as the the current ownership owns that um but what we would find out is on when there's a known event like a like a a a Black Friday for example we May proactively then just block off some more parking spaces and anticipate some more drive-thru um it also really comes down to what the operator finds is their biggest sales channel so when covid first ended and dining rooms opened back up um dining room usage was very little in fact Chick-fil-A started to actually take seats out of our stores but what we're finding as as time goes on um a lot of it goes back to the same except for one thing which I'll get to in a minute and so that um dining is still is right now is about 15% of our business people that dine in uh pre-co it was about 20% of our business uh drive-thru is actually going back down to about 50% of our business that stayed the same the thing that's changed the most um is the mobile ordering um and the the folks that either mobile order come and pick it up or that use door Dash so that was kind of surprising how much door Dash gets used um again it would be something that wouldn't necessarily be day one but it would be eventually used here as well and so those individuals they could they would park in a stall walk in pick up their food and and leave right away uh there's on some hygienic questions here oil pardon can you hear me now okay good U oils recycling how many basically what's the frequency of the oil recycling I'm asking you for a more like a you know hygienic point of view sure um so the uh the oil gets picked up as needed but but typically that's about every month or so we'll have to get that oil uh recycled emptied uh those are basically obviously you'll follow all the township procedures and everything else yeah yeah I mean it's it's very it's very actually very clean simple process because we actually put a um a nozzle connector on the side of our building and the the tank that come the truck that comes to pick it up connects to it siphons it out what was what was happening it's a it's a door prob have a specific nozzle some criminals got that nozzle and we're visiting locations in the middle of the night you know and a rental U-Haul truck and just take stealing it so okay on the safety side um when your team members basically walk around uh for taking the iPad or delivering the food especially on the the uh dual land um how do actually do you have any sort of that record for accidents or at least preventing the accidents for cars uh not only on the abusing also people do abuse you know verbal or anything else so how do you control that on especially on the safety side you know team members walking around the boat Lanes great great question that was a big challenge that chick-fil had even trying to roll this out so that when we were testing it we we worked through a lot of different methods for for safy so beyond the the the the ballards and this and the striped areas that team members walk um I think it's important to realize that when cars are in the Drive-Thru going through there they're essentially going almost zero right there there no there's no speed at these cars um so so there they are trained on how to stay in their Lanes cars the balls there protect car the cars from coming into these these striped areas um my knowledge is I'm not aware of any major issues I I've heard that some team members have gotten their toes run over but it's not it's not has it not been any kind of safety issue there and I want to assure you that the what we're proposing here is is being done in hundreds and hundred probably by this point thousands of locations uh throughout the country um if you want to see them you can see them here in in New Jersey um I'm trying to think so uh the closest one that we do is is I know we did open one in Edison uh recently that that has it um yeah there's a lot of locations that have well I will go and look at it now uh okay we'll obviously discuss about variance later on 100 ft by 19 uh ft versus 100 by 89 and all those things um on the trees number of trees uh now if you look at the Ruby Tuesday by the way what is it do you know uh Mr Michael how what is the square feet of Ruby Tuesday was I'm checking the uh plan here yeah it I can I can tell it's it's larger than Chick-fil-A it's probably about 6,000 square feet so we're smaller our building is smaller than Ruby Tuesdays okay about that means you are not disturbing any trees right do you have to disturb any trees there there the only so our perimeter curb is very very the same but you asked a great question and the reports have a question about like the the shade trees out front so um you know it's kind of interesting because Ruby Tuesday's lot is really the only lot that doesn't have any of the trees while the rest of the trees are there so we've kind of inquired as to H like like we're not opposed to trees we don't necessarily you know feel feel either way but the shopping center doesn't want those trees there the shopping center doesn't want those trees specifically because of the sign so the the main sign is set back from the roadway a little bit right and it's not a very tall sign it's it's a I would use the term as a glorified Monument sign that has you know Wegman's and yeah I know Chick-fil-A is not even on that sign right we're not we're not going on that sign we don't have a freestanding sign the only signs we have are on our building that's one of the reasons why we're asking for for a variance there that's the only signs we have so you will not have a town center signed chickf on a Town Center sign where Workman and all the stores are there yeah we're just going to be on the build just going to be on the building yeah okay thank you um obviously engineer can can address the uh trees but we do have an exhibit from our planner that I can uh pass out to the board that'll demonstrate from an aerial perspective why we think there probably weren't trees at the existing pad here when Ruby Tuesdays was there okay I mean so I just I just kind want to put that out I mean it's not like we're saying hey we don't want trees we we have Landscaping Landscaping is super important to us it's something that I think the shopping center owner doesn't necessarily and I'll not hold it back I could just pass it out now so what how long3 how long your saf is again how many hours to our safties I'm sorry how many hours what would you call this bar saf we're going to call it just by its title planning exhibits for Chick-fil-A Inc exhibit yes they're Dr they're drone photos taken today they're four PES pass that out thank you you said you have got 80 to 100 employees uh our store but obviously 25 per shift so how many hours per how many hours in a sift um it it depends so um again it's really up to the operator and the in the mix but generally speaking you'll have about half the the uh employ team members will be uh full-time okay so they may work an eight or a 10 hour shift okay um but the other half are either retirees or school you know younger folks that maybe it can only put an hour or two or three in at a time thank you chairman I'm done Mr chairman if I Mr Banger Please Mr Martinez uh just a general question uh what was the primary reason for this being the the site that you selected um the other sites we looked at in um water had zoning challenges specifically not a permitted use um and this location became available um and we started we we've been negotiating with the property own ever since so so that is a a one reason secondly um honestly we've been very interested in trying to be we prefer to be in a shopping center with a Wegman's uh with a Home Depot with those type of uses so this really checks a lot of the personal the boxes that Chick-fil-A would like so we're we're excited to be here for sure great thank you and then uh just regards to I guess overp parking and I'm just taking a look at you know the the current uh I see I guess it's Town Town Center Road so and then you make a a right and then another right to get into Chick-fil-A in the case that let's say the parking lot is completely full uh it looks like there's a walkway right across the street that would kind of go into the furniture store is that is that accurate and then how would um you know potential pedestrian I guess make their way through or or I guess is that an expectation of yours that that they would be able to to do that so I guess I'm looking at where it says like 7 11 7 yeah it's toward the the north side on the on the on the East that's correct so um you you've described it generally correct and your description of it uh that that connection doesn't exist today so we're proposing to add that sidewalk connection that the The Crossing that that access drive and uh provide a path concrete walkway uh onto the sidewalk that's uh against the Chick-fil-A that they could the the both team members and customers can get to our front door uh based on some grades and meeting Ada uh requirements we we don't want those folks necessarily crossing the the drive-thru at a an undesignated location so we're purposely uh having that sidewalk connection come up and having them cross we where we feel is a controlled location oh so they would be Crossing going west uh and then past the dumpsters I guess and then come back around is that kind of how I'm how I'm navigating that it's it's it's slightly circuitous um and I'm going to let my civil engineer kind of go into more detail because I'm you know I don't want to like step on hisory sure sure um but I can tell you that we we make sure that it it meets all the requirements from Ada and that does plus again we're we're we're we're we're cautious as to where folks potentially Cross or don't cross our drive through Lane we want we want that location to be very well designated uh and we really feel as the safest location to do that okay thank you Mr Martinez Mr Martinez um you mentioned that Sundays are closed correct is any store activity on Sunday at all any deliveries or any store personnel on site oh great excellent question so um there one of the the main reasons we close on Sundays um is so that it allows us to actually maintain our store so while we will not cook chicken or sell chicken on that day um we you may see some folks they are doing maintenance on the equipment changing filters um I I've always asked how how do how do companies that stay open 247 seven actually maintain their equipment and change filters well the answer is they don't but at Chick-fil-A we make sure that we change those those filters and maintain it um it's it's not an every Sunday occurrence but occasionally you'll see someone in there doing some maintenance um the only time um operators are allowed to open on a on a on a Sunday um is and we've done it occasionally unfortunately it's usually when there's a a a negative event occurs where we're going to we're going to take care of the community so if there's a a fire in a in an apartment complex or something our operators will come in cook chicken um the only requirement is they're not allowed to sell it they have to give it away so they it's it's it's it's truly a giving back to the community for for that um that's the only time we would we would do it and that's not something that we plan on doing it's just something that it happens excellent and as far as the uh oil storage that's on site that's that's common practice for some franchises or is that specific Chick-fil-A the way that you store the oil um that D Pro System I mean it's available to everybody but uh I I think we're one of the system the main users of that system is there like fire suppression that's isolated to that uh to that uh storage system our buildings are typically sprinklered um so we would be it's so it's not treated like a hood that would have a separate Ansel system right um it would just have the regular sprinkler system protection thank you any other questions Yeah couple of couple of questions very thorough report so that's why I don't have many um you mentioned there were going to be 80 to 100 employees um on like a Saturday where it seems to be your peak time how how many of them are going to likely be be on site so uh the expectation is that we would have about 25 uh folks on site at that point okay um now I said we will VI we will have more folks in that initial period for sure um because we're going to over staff this significantly over staff it just to make sure we got proper training but On Any Given Saturday after that the expectations probably about 25 okay and when when you talk about parking on site are any of those um spots likely to be taken by uh employees or are the employees are they going to park maybe Elsewhere on the campus what's what's the what's the anticipation there that there exactly the anticipation is that that the team members would park uh off of our area in the area directly behind us um and we have a we were putting a sidewalk to make access there convenient um you know I can't say that employee would never maybe if to run late sneak in but but absolutely the expectation is to leave the parking lot free for customer traffic and our Studies have shown and our traffic engineer can get into it that overall um if if we were a self-contained lot we would look for somewhere in in the upper 50s around 60 parking spaces here with 45 44 on our least area and having the ability to park behind us the the the 25 team members that more is more than comfortable for us overall for parking okay if I could just add to that we we looked at this uh and viewed it as a commercial pad everyone on the board is very familiar with the property so the boards whereare there's over 2700 spaces on the property um but under the Township's ordinance for restaurant uses we do meet we do meet the Township's parking requirements based upon the number of seats being provided um Chick-fil-A provides more parking typically than what the Township's ordinance requires and you are churning cars fairly quickly because a low percent a relatively low percentage of your people are dining in that's correct so between the drive-thru and the quick run in and pick up or the door Dash you know those spots are likely not being used for more than a few minutes a piece that that's what we found that's correct okay um you know I don't want to I don't want to jump ahead especially because I think it's going to happen on a different night um you do have a traffic engineer that's that's going to be coming on right okay cuz you know I think that one of the one of the areas that I know I I have concern I'm sure others uh on the day maybe some who are in the audience um and I'm not talking about when you first open I mean you know steady state presumably you're going to you know if you if approved and if you open uh this would be a pretty successful location um yeah I'll be particularly interested not not how you're getting people onto the site I'm going to be particularly interested in how you're getting people off the site um so you know that's maybe just a preview of of at least where where I'm where where where I'm looking um you know as you uh as you proceed with the hearing thank you councilman any other questions I have a I guess it's a a comment and uh Mr Martinez you probably would likely Mr silbert will say well that question should go for your engineer or your traffic engineer but I'll mention it here because you're probably a decision maker uh board members will hear me say I find that in most commercial operations the number of handicapped parking spaces are uh connected with some formula that's required but it's been my observation that uh more and more individuals have that parking decal and that the number of spaces will fill up relatively quickly and making it inconvenient for those that need that so I would ask that you look at whatever the number is that you look to increase that thank you we look into that thank you thank you Mr puus any other questions from our board Mr chair just a couple questions if I may um quite honestly I think Bridgewater would be blessed to see a Chick-fil-A come to town uh but you know they say it's harder to open a Chick-fil-A than it is to get into Harvard and I I think that's just an incredible thing uh but you mentioned uh electric vehicle charging how many spots would there be and is that required by state law or federal law yeah so I can um I can answer part of that question so um New Jersey does require it so it's a state law um they actually don't require necessarily car charging to be there day one they require to be made ready and then they require it to be phased in over a couple of years um that's not how we operate uh we're going to put it in there day one so we will uh install car charging uh day one okay if your question madam I probably I'm going beyond your question um because there's multiple levels of car charging is if you're electric individual um we uh we will install level two charging which um is kind of the middle middle of the road charging is what the expectation is okay um how long do you estimate it'll take for just one car to go through the drive-thru to order to wait and then receive their food our traffic engineering get into specifics but but generally speaking uh from the time you place your order U to the time you get your food is about four minutes or so and how many cars do you expect to you know be in the Drive-Thru at any given time oh that's a great question um it really it really really varies um certainly in the mornings it's it's very few um it's going to get busy on Saturday afternoons so let let's we we we we know that um I I don't have an idea all I know is that um we're equipping our folks with the ability to handle a lot of cars through there um and so that that's our expectation our traffic engineer can get into some some counts um and we'll get really specific uh with that okay and you mentioned a sign where exactly would that sign be and uh would the lights be turned off at night so uh you mean building sign building sign we're we're actually proposing three signs on our building one facing um the Highway 202 and one on either side it's it's very similar to what the other tenants along there have done uh there's no separate ground mounted sign for Chick-fil-A okay um there is also actually a fourth sign that I don't know if you're if you're your your Consultants actually found it or or saw it or not um we actually put a a nice kind of it's kind of a welcome to Bridgewater sign literally on our building it's it's not visible from the street but it's Tech technically visible but answer your question yeah our signs are turned off at night um you typically right after we um close for business as we turn the signs off we have to because if not people keep coming that's literally we have to turn the signs off um the parking lot lighting is typically also removed except for some security lighting here being at the entrance to to a major shopping center we will keep some lights on because we want to make sure that the rest of the center is active um but we will turn our signs off right when we close all right thank you uh you all provided some very detailed and throrough reports that answered a lot of my questions so I do have to thank you for that that's all thank you Mr Atkins any other coms how about for more professionals this Mr Burr thank you Mr chairman just just a couple questions John um you mentioned the the meal ordering will be handled at the drive-thru Lines by in person by real people is that yeah they'll have they'll have iPads and they'll be taking orders in person sure so so the the facility is set up um with the ability to do both uh have team members out there with iPads taking orders or what we would call a static menu board like what you see at a typical menu board so static menu boards are installed operational um and would probably be used for breakfast to be completely transparent it's just not enough customers out there uh but as soon as lunch picks up more often than not those static machines W boards are turned off and folks are out there with iPads typically the rest of the day okay you answer my question so it's going to be both both yeah the the typical menu boards as well as in person that's correct okay you had mentioned um we talked a little bit about the cross access the parking across I guess it's the Raymore and Flanigan parking lot if I'm not mistaken just across the the drive aisle do you have those rights in in writing are they already secured for the cross access or is that something that's being negotiated with we we have that as part of the lease we we basically have cross access and cross parking through the entire Center okay um so uh I can provide that information to our attorney if if the board wants to see that but yes we we already have that in place okay very good you mentioned deliveries I guess there's there's two vehicles for deliveries a small box truck which would be daily and then a larger tractor trailer I think you said four times a week that's typically four times a week correct do you envision that tractor trailer coming into the pad site and navigating around the new building or is that is it going to park on that access driveway just beyond the new restaurant is that where yeah it's going to actually do a com it's GNA it's going to the what typically our expectation is and our direction would be is for them to um back in just to the start of our parking lot in that main Drive aisle and then and then turn off their their engines it's it's the Truck Engine and the and the Box the refrigerator engine and then from there they would deliver the food into the U facility via trucks okay hence the importance then of that operation taking place after hours it will be after hours of the other uses within the complex as well so T typically um the trucks come between uh midnight and 5 am so I don't know the specific hours of of all the uses there but the ones next to us are are close okay and you can imagine uh the reason for that is very functional so back in the when I first started with Chick-fil-A we used to have our deliveries during the day so you can imagine all the busyness of Chick-fil-A and having a large truck come it was it was not good and so having key drop is is a much better facility um for the board's benefit that's a a huge expense for us right to pay people to work at night is not an inexpensive thing but it's such a better customer experience that we pay a a large premium to have that occur at night you had discussed the Q management rather extensively and how you guys keep an eye on that when this assuming this is approved and and this facility is opened is the ongoing oversight of how the drive-through line queuing functions is that going to be the responsibility of Chick-fil-A corporate or will that eventually fall under the individual operator of that site like who's going to hold the bag here if this thing starts stacking out into the main driveway for this for this heavily used facility so uh with with our agreement the the operator is responsible for for all for for running this okay so so the daily uh working implementing that is is 100% that operator that operator is going to have you're going to know who that operator is once they're uh they're determined they're going to have the connection with the police they're going to be your daily contacts so if and when there's an issue something's not being done that operator is going to be the individual that you're going to be working with corporately we still hold the lease and we're still on the hook ultimately if the operator fail to to live up to that we would get involved and we would put pressure on an operator if that Operator just completely didn't was negligent we would take over that responsibility but that's something that we would not expect to do because in that vetting process of of operators you know the it's it's a we make sure they're they're they're going to understand that they they have a responsibility for our for TR true at Cathy's good name to make sure that the facility is run appropriately okay um last question has to do with Landscaping we talk very briefly we have the exhibit here understand the likely reason why there's no Landscaping along the frontage especially with the entrance to the complex this the monument sign in your opinion is there an opportunity here to add some low level some Shrubbery along the frontage of the parking spaces abely maybe to break up the view of the the front of the vehicles something you would consider we we we'll propose it I'll have to get that and I'll take care of getting that through the through the landlord but absolutely we have no issue with that at all very good thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr bur sorman thank you um in relation to Bill's second to last question um relating to that queuing where you mentioned You' kind of have to take over if there was any kind of terrible situation um has that has that ever happened before in any New Jersey sites as far as us taking over not that I'm aware of no have there been other sites that have had queuing issues or or or problems with kind of um neighboring uses or neighboring buildings where there were issues oh plenty and they never came it never came to the Takeover no it never came and it typically wasn't the operator issue um typically uh when we have some some impacts to either roadways or other businesses um it's it's more related to to the design of the site and typically it's an older site okay um so I'm trying to think of the of the the most egregious one in New Jersey that that I'm aware of was probably uh in Union New Jersey on Route 22 uh if you're if you're familiar with that I mean that site is in the center Island um and so the the issue was really just the amount of cars and our effect on there was two other tenants on that site a 7-Eleven and a Peta something Peta yeah Peta Shack and so um that was that that went to court and and all and ultimately the the solution that CH FL is that is what we ended up taking over the entire property and so now we're we're going to go back in and try to adjust that but New Jersey do has very specific requirements on where those driveways are just because of the complexity of the roadway Network there um so we are working with with that and and I think it demonstrates Chick-fil-A's ability to go and say look you know we're going to spend a lot of money to try and take care of something that technically maybe we could keep on operating but that's not the right way to do it um additionally what you probably don't know is that even during that situation we try to put another facility uh on 20 too to take some pressure off of that so I spent um quite a few months uh in a zoning board meetings in the town of Springfield New Jersey and on a 4 Acre Site to put a Chick-fil-A only a Chick-fil-A on a 4 Acre Site and and and we got denied and I say that not to feel sorry for us but I say that to to for the board's benefit to say that we're we're trying to do what we can where we can that thank you and um as far as I know you've given some testimony about the operations about um how this site has been designed for specific kind of operational Evolution as Chick-fil-A goes through the the Motions of that um how often do sites operations change so once it's built once it's constructed it's designed for a certain kind of operational manual at the time how often does operations change from a corporate level down or is it all site specific um no I think what we do is we're constantly innovating so we're always looking at what we've done and trying to say okay hey that's great now let's see what we can do to make it better as we move forward and some of those improvements if they're if they're significant enough that they make we we we try and go back and retrofit so to speak specifically here like the the idea of dual Lan fulfillment is important enough to for Chick-fil-A that we're spending a lot of money going back and trying to retrofit a lot of location with it so not only not only Flemington we're trying to do the same thing in South planfield um we're going to try and retrofit that as a different challenge because there's a large gas line that goes through there but so I I would say we're constantly innovating and it just depends on what the Innovation is to whether we go back and put it in that facility or we just use it as a next one moving forward okay thank you and I'm assuming the the Dual Lane and correct me if I'm wrong that the Dual Lane queuing really has to do with making short that cars continue to move and that orders get fulfilled it's not limited to just a single drivethru window that well that that's correct you you you you actually take the window out with this and so so you're able to process a significant more number of cars so the same number of cars come to our site they just don't stack up like they used to that sorry I meant like a prototypical drivethru I I meant the single drive through window is like a normal drive-thru that everyone's used to is that they start to bottleneck there that's correct thank you cor um back to the question that Bill had raised about having cross access agreement and I know you'd mentioned before that your employees basically would not park on this pad site they'd Park elsewhere do you have kind of like a max number of employees part-time full-time you know operations managers whatever that are on site at a given time like what's the what's the max number of employees that you'll see at at a peak part of the day so what I would say to that is um that decision is actually made by the operator because they're paying all those those folks um other than grand opening so putting grand opening to to the side um our experience has been somewhere in the neighbor of around 25 folks in that in that Saturday Peak period it's not to say that there couldn't be 28 or there could there might be 20 but but 25 is probably a number that I would feel comfortable where where we're at okay I I only asked that question try and assess um kind of the impact it has on the overall site development not just this site that's you know part of the application tonight but the overall site that um it could impact and then um so would you say because kind of that the parking pressure is is no longer includes employees that the parking that's being provided is adequate to handle um the customer base basically everyone their visitors to the site yeah absolutely very with the 44 spaces we're very comfortable that would would more than handle our our our our customer need okay and you mention I think you mentioned earlier that the drive-thru accounts are about 50% so then the other 50% would obviously be you know walk-ins or mobile orders is there curbside delivery yeah so so essentially um the real rough breakdown um as as stores go is somewhere around 50% drive-thru um 15% or so dine in um then the other 35% are a combination of folks that mobile order come pick it up and leave uh door Dash is is could be anywhere from 10 to 15% here in this in I'll say in the suburbs oh like a door ja driver will come pick up multiple orders or yeah okay correct all right I think that's all I have for now thank you Mr chairman can I ask can I pass a comment or it is not our timing quickly if you don't mind sure yeah uh one of the things I was thinking when you know the Miss Kine was basically asking about the uh car traffic jam or something uh since you are SoCal a technology driven company uh have you thought about using AI to basically use the AI to make sure at least you know you know beforehand what people will be likely with the ordering it make ready and then make the cars go fast at least all the line go faster so um I I don't know if I would use the term AI but to answer yeah some predictive uh um ordering and food preparation we we we absolutely do that so we we kind of find out what the pattern is in the community right um and understand and account for it so there's communities that you know have Tuesday nights are extremely busy well why but we know every Tuesday night you're going to have a certain order or there's certain product that gets sold and we when we come out with our vegan chicken you're you're we're going to have a whole new folks land use meetings are on Tuesday nights there you go thank you thank you thank you Mr Chow because I'd like to give the public an opportunity to respond but before I do that Mr Silber I'm just acknowledging the hour and I'm looking at our calendar here and forgive me are there any dates I think November Nancy no right December 3rd I think we find you back here you're anyway on December 3rd I'll me you check my my team okay yeah yeah yeah I'm good I can make it yeah certainly take the third the third okay thank thank you and and again if I could just uh open up to the public now uh to anybody that wishes to ask any question or comment based on uh Mr Martinez's test Mone please for fire to come more [Music] now good evening uh is this the time for an appeal or registering appeal or is this just comment right now at at this time it's just to ask questions of uh the witness who just of his testimony when all the testimonies concluded then you can make General comments and St okay thank you thank you anybody else okay that closes the public portion for this witness uh Mr silbert uh unless we have anybody that's going to give a 30 second or five minute testimony I think uh maybe it's a good place to uh pause yeah quick we're not that quick thank you Mr chairman we'll return back on the third um and continue on their presentation we'll start off with our civil engineer and we'll go through the site plan very good and thank you very much have a good evening we'll see you on December 3rd um just there was an item on the agenda before this the uh holah House application which was uh I believe either adjourned I don't know if it was officially adjourned but I did provide notice for that hearing and I just wanted to make sure that it's on the record this evening that it's being carried or adjourned to the to December 3rd so I do not have to Ren notice yeah you don't you don't need to Ren notice it's been on and and we've advised that it's been carried to December 3rd and no further notice thank you will be given and just so we have it on the record no further will be given that we are carrying this to December 3rd as well correct okay okay Miss probes as we said we do not have any business in November correct in in November correct okay so we will meet here on December 3rd I believe we have um now two applicants that evening well three okay jez deliv is he huh we're we're a nice tie that night we are the good one right okay there's no other business on the agenda for this evening any general comments from the board quick clarification no planning board meeting in November correct application correct got it [Music] any other comments with that I'll take a motion to adjourn I'll make that motion that's Miss sakur and I'll need a second I'll second miss chtz all in favor I hi I thank you very much have a good night okay read