##VIDEO ID:HgQrDU27j_s## e e all right good evening everyone we're going to call the meeting to order at 7 p.m. Bridge order Township Zoning Board of adjustment regular meeting September 10th 2024 both adequate electronic notice this meeting specifying the time place and manner which such notice was provided in accordance with the open public meetings Act njsa 10 col 4-6 specifically on January 9th 2024 proper noes was sent to the curer news and the Star Ledger and filed with the clerk at the township of Bridgewater and posted on the municipal bulletin board Please be aware of the zoning Board of adjustment policy for public hearings no new applications will be heard after 9:30 and no new testimony will be taken after 10 p.m. if you're able please rise for the salute to the flag to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible with liberty justice for all all right uh good evening Roger have a roll call please here I here here yes here here here here here YouTube all right thank you very much at this time I'd like to open up the meeting to members of the public that would like to speak on any land use issue that is not on our agenda this evening all right and I want to recognize mayor MCH of Bridgewater Township also a resident I uh thank you chairman it's it's really weird being on this side of the day as in this room um but uh I was here if you notice we put Flags out this afternoon with some of the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts in uh advance of tomorrow's 911 ceremony so uh hopefully you see the the flags um as you drive in and out it was it was a good day with the kids to do that and uh I was getting ready to go home for the day and I saw folks coming in and I I just want to take the opportunity uh to to say to all of you here thank you for all the hard work that you do um it's uh it's very much appreciated and I know the residents appreciate it develop ERS and applicants probably appreciate it um but uh um all serious says no thank you all for for all your service and uh I really appreciate the the diligence that you put into hearing applications and uh the time you take to prep for them uh this board has a great reputation and it's because of all the hard work that all of you do so uh thank you and hopefully I don't know I can't tell if it be a long or short meeting I'm going to leave now but uh um hopefully you have a good meeting tonight and uh again thank you all for for your service and chairman thank you for running a great great board and great meetings thank you mayor it's very nice of you to say and uh good seeing you and uh have a nice weekend yeah good all right have a good night everybody all right next up we have um Bo minutes we have none resolutions we have none Rich could you just take us through some of our future cases so uh pending for the board um for the October 22nd meeting will be 821 Bridgewater LLC in the Jewish Community Center that is uh carried again to 1022 without any further notices then on November 12th we have Bridgewater realy 2 LLC um AKA Starbucks that is uh tentatively scheduled for 11:12 there'll be a new notice for that application also on November 12th is CX Towers carried to there um also with new notice if they proceed on that night um and then on December 10th we have belly Holdings LLC to be continued on again December 10th with new notice and then on this also December 10th we have 1,200 route22 land investors and 12200 route22 LLC holding again carried with uh but there'll be new notice all right thank you so tonight we have Somerset properties 757 Route 202 206 Mr plocker good evening sir hi good evening Mr chairman good to see you Brian plocker from The Firm of Hutch Mano and plocker here on behalf of the applicant Somerset properties Associates LLC um my client uh is here in connection with an existing two-story office building uh located on approximately 5.62 acres in the GCM The General commercial and Manufacturing Zone uh my client is the proposed tenant for the vacant currently vacant second floor of the building and seeks to operate an adult daycare facility now although nursing homes assisted living facilities Medical Dental uses are permitted in the GCM Zone adult dayare is not in the list of permitted uses even though it is very similar as you'll hear from my client this evening accordingly my client uh requires and seeks a use variant to permit the adult daycare use on this particular property additionally to the use variant my client seeks preliminary and final site plan approval to add a port kosare a covered area where the proposed customers of the adult daycare can be picked up and dropped off that port to koshare also comes with some uh altered curbing uh for pickup and drop off and except for the addition of the port to coare and some restriping of the parking lot in the rear and rearranging of some of the uh handicap spaces there are no site other site improvements proposed as part of this application uh there is one Associated bulk variance that is required that is for the front yard setback uh 100 ft is required because of the port kosare uh that is going to be proposed to be 62 feet from the front property line and therefore requires a bulk variance and just so that the record is complete there are four other existing non-conformities that this application does not propose to change that is the setback for one side yard parking side yard setback parking front yard setback and the setback for the existing freestanding sign we could certainly get into those measurements if the board asks but those four are existing non-conformities and this application does not propose to change any of them that being said I do have my Witnesses ready and I'm ready to call my first witness unless the board has second could we just uh check the notice in jurisdiction there rich um certainly Mr chairman I did review the notice and uh it's in proper form was served by certified mail on August 29th published on August 30th uh so we do have jurisdiction great want to just swear all your Witnesses in right now all of them yeah sure SAR and our folks and we'll keep it moving all right all right so why don't we bring them all up and do you all the same time that's it that's they're all going to testify um they are all going to testify uh just for the record we do have a representative from the property owner if and when we need any information that only he can provide so he's one of them thank you all right well if you would all Raise Your Right hands please do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you got all right why don't we start from my left and just your name and spell your last name for the record please my name is Jonathan kabo architect the last name is Ku y b d a maybe we can just pass that microphone my name is Rihanna Koff I am the traffic engineer for the applicant that is k i r c h h f good evening my name is Kevin O'Brien o r ien professional planner Jacob zarinsky uh last name z i r i NSK k y I'm the owner's rep I'm sorry what are you the owner's rep okay hello my name is Henry hch I work with the owner of the property on site did you spell your your last name please yes h i r s c h my name my name is Adonis crispo a d o n i s c r i s p o professional engineer with the Reynolds group my name is Jeff Reynolds re y n o DS and I'm the project manager from the Reynolds group my name is Mark Irwin iir w i n and I'm the chief Operating Officer for the somerset company William bur Township and Zoning Board engineer Catherine sad Township planner and board planner all right everyone thank you very much we are hopeful of getting through your application tonight yes and we are hopeful that we do not actually need to call everybody who just identified themselves we we'll see that being said the applicant calls our architect John kabid thank you I'll just remind you that you are on the road yes thank you thank you John just before you get into your testimony could you please provide the the board with your background and credentials my name is John kabita architect I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey uh I have a master of architecture from New Jersey Institute of Technology in the year 2009 I have testified before numerous zoning and Ming board meetings and the latest ones were Orange New Jersey tenly New Jersey rosand New Jersey or three of the recent ones I can yes yes it is all right great the board accepts you as an expert thank you yes I am yes absolutely um so everyone see the image on the screen so I'm showing the rendering of the proposed ptical share yeah why don't we do you want to Mark the whole slide presentation is A1 and then number to slides or Mr you well I don't know what's coming after this so yeah sure okay and we have that whole thing like you you submitted everything that you're about to show us right digitally okay so why don't we just mark them as they come then all four separately okay so the image on the screen is depicting a new portical share fancy word for a covered vehicle drop off area so this will be in the front of the existing twostory building so the addition is the taller portion that has the series of columns which is an area of 52 by 62 so that is in essence what the project new addition which I'll refer to that's what I'll be speaking about this new covered vehicle the reason why we're proposing this is because part of the operations and New Jersey state law requires that when you have an adult daycare facility that you need to provide uh coverage when there's inclimate weather or if it's raining this way so participants can erress or Ingress into the building safely that is why we're proposing to have this new particle chair and in I'll just like to point out a few other items you can kind of get a a colorized you know in addition to showing the new addition and how it matches overall Aesthetics of the building the signage as well will be um the colors on here is accurate as well so the senior Senior Life will be colorized black and the life will be blue as well those will be just internally illuminated and channel block aluminum and just for the record that sign that's on A1 is fully compliant with the ordinance correct that is correct yes thank you oh if you don't mind so on that um on that note we based that on a 5% Max of the front elevation so we had calculated it at uh 1,7 44 square feet and then if you take 5% of that that gives you 87 square feet Max that be allowed and our sign is less than that I believe it's 65 so uh the next image that I would be showing on the screen is the Civil drawing and this is a colorized rendering of that yeah so why don't we Mark uh as exhibit A2 it's a colorized rendering of the site plan that was submitted with the application materials in that sheet three so this was a version of sheet three that has been colorized and updated so um all right so just to orient everybody and so we're all speaking about the same properties of of the project so the site orientation so plan North is north on the sheet South would be on the bottom East would be on the right and West would be on the left of the page so the state highway route 202-206 is is on the right side of the page on our site um there is a main circulation path that is on the the southern side and this uh Main circulation path uh not only connects to the building but it has three distinct parking areas so it does provide um circulation to all three spaces um the the building is a two-story structure that is built into the grade so just to quickly go over the grading the first floor is about 12 feet is approximately 12T higher than the second floor and that is the difference so from right to left on the the site it will slope about 12 ft so the original design of the building um took advantage of the natural topography so each floor has direct access to the grade and makes it easier just for ad accessibilities and getting in and out of the building okay so the again and the three main parking spaces are connected by existing concrete sidewalks so that's the the basic um lay of the land and our project the the Portico share new addition is in the front like I had mentioned previously the size of that is 62 feet by 52 feet that is shown in the darker brown color here you had mentioned earlier that the the the requirement to have a port to coare something that's incorporated into the state law for facilities of this kind is the size also dictated by that same law or is that something that you chose and if so why did you choose that size uh that is a great question so we had um we had chosen this size and we thought it was adequate based on operations on uh in the morning and at night during drop off and taking the participants home that it was having four vehicles parked in tandem in two different Lanes was ideal right there's 15 buses that will maximum of 15 buses so we wanted kind of really fit the size of the building and the aesthetic and at the same time you know make sure the operational it was efficient thank you so in the front of the building we do have the portical share um we will be uh redoing the parking and we have restriped this area we are showing six nine parking spaces here we do have a few visitor spaces on the right side of striping we will be doing new sidewalks in front of the building hoping that you could see my cursor here so there will be part of it where we will be doing the Curbing and sidewalks in addition to that we want to make sure that our participants will be entering the building safely so we will have depress curb so they can get inside the building safely and part of the entrance will be updated as well so as part of uh this application we're not increasing any of the impervious area so the portical share would in essence be capturing the same stor storm water and the last part of this is there is an existing turnaround Circle here so we wanted to make use of that and it we uh selected a bus that will in fact turn around in this circle we have a a turning study that we have identified and in the maximum bus that have identified as well e apologize for the uh boo on our drawing two here uh we just for the record that's the the architectural drawings that were submitted with the application or is that the site plan this is part of the Civil package okay yeah we just want to be clear for the record I'm not going to mark that right that's our package that that's part of this uh civil site plan set that was part of the package yes so on the page two of that drawing um The Turning diagram I promise it is on here if I zoom in it will minimize but but we do show a bus on here that is the maximum it fits the operations of of senior Summer Set in your life and um that will be the maximum bus that we will use so we will not be modifying that turnaround the larger uh buses that we'll be utilizing will be in the far rear parking lot I hesitate to keep flipping back yes so on the far rear parking lot we do have 15 bus stalls yes and that was calculated into our maximum parking spaces and that's going to be new striping back there in that lot is that correct that that is correct and actually this whole Paving this whole area is in kind of disrepair so we are going to modernize that and make sure it looks nice and be restriping it and repaving it as well and since we're talking about modernizing it the existing concrete sidewalks we got to make sure there's going to be Ada deess curves so you know the employees of senior life will be able to park in this rear parking lot and then be able to walk safely to get into the building and when the employees enter the building we want to make sure that they enter through mainly the side exit um there's an access way that leads from the rear parking area to the parking area behind the building that is southernmost or to the south of your site on 202 206 you can see it on the build on the drawing is there any kind of agreement in place that says they can't use your lot you can't use their lot that would stop your lot from being swamped from people from that office building parking in your bus spots or any place else Mr that is a question yeah I can address that I think we do have an owner's representative here this evening that can address that question I don't know if you would like me to bring them up as these questions arise because there are there is certain knowledge that only the owner has and that's within their discretion I'd like to get through this first yeah important question so when we bring up the building them as well why don't we make sure we Circle back that's fine and just for the record the owner will be able to testify as to the other tenants in the building and how they use their properties and number of people and things of that nature thank you uh can I ask you a question while you're talking about sidewalks um I'm familiar with the building I just don't remember when you go and you drop the bus off with the seniors there outside of the curb is there any steps going in or is it just the curb that you have to so as part of the application we will be redoing um right in front of the entrance of the building we're going to kind of redo that and make sure that there we're going to remove any steps so is it going to be just like a you could just like level Bend going into the entrance yeah it's going to flatten out and it'll be ADA Compliant so as you know we'll demo it all out in front of the building there and as I I kind of show on the screen here it'll get regraded so it'll be able to safely walk be greated how um there will be um let's see here we're going to construct a full depth pavement kind of repair and the pavement will be uh sloped and angled accordingly so there will be no step there's no Step at all it's so somebody needs assistance they won't have to make step up or anything that's correct yes we're gonna as it is now there is a step and we we feel that is unsafe and it is tripping Hazard so we're going to be removing that and then installing this new uh full depth pavement repair as showing on the so anybody would then have no trouble going in or out okay that correct um I guess two last points on the site um so there's existing site lighting here now but we're going to maintain the existing site Pooles and there's two uh actual light fixtures in the middle of the building excuse me middle parking lot that we will be uh replacing and they will be LED lights we do have a Jo we want to make sure that the sight lighting at nighttime is safe from the far rear parking lot and all the way to to the front of the building so because of that fact that we felt it was in insufficient light the foot candles at night time so we're going to be replacing that and last point I don't if I mentioned that the concrete curb in the in the rear of the building that is the first level we're going to be removing uh the width of the entire building we're removing that concrete sidewalk and curb and reinstalling a brand new make sure it is ADA Compliant as it is currently it is not ADA Compliant the right and so in the middle of the page where I have the cursor there's an existing uh it's Stone pad it it's what is shown here in the dash lines and it is wide enough to to have the four dumpsters here there's currently uh four shown on the right and we're going to be adding two addition as part of this application there'll be six handicap spots are shown correct in the in the improved area behind the building that is correct yeah we will make sure that all the handicap spaces are in the back yes we had in the front of the building we had there was shown I believe one Ada space but due to existing grades it's actually not ADA Compliant and we felt it was unsafe to show an ADA Compliant parking spot so we are showing all our Ada spots in the rear of the building so that's so in the front of the building is where the visitors for that will be attending the adult daycare center will be parking so there's four on the right side of the parking lot and then just you know five additional we are you know uh I'll mention it one more time we are proposing a 4in wide yellow striping and we will be restri whole area the way you're set up with the port to kosare to accommodate the buses that will be coming in bringing the uh clients or patients into the facility you just mentioned an ADA space that you're not going to have there any longer will people be able to drop off people who require that kind of accommodation other than the buses other vehicles will they be allowed to use that same port to coare to drop people off at the building so the way it is currently set up now uh that ptical share is just for the operations of Senior Life it it will not be for any other tenants in the building so you don't anticipate anybody requiring an ADA compliance spot in the front any longer and rather you're going to have them around the back and you had depicted yes so the building currently has an elevator so if if one if let's say there's a tenant on the second floor they would be able to park in this rear parking lot and be able to use the elevator to go up to that second floor okay we have ex you know the access in circulation accounted I'm just curious as to how clear that would be to somebody coming into the building seeing this port to coare thinking that would be a great way for me to get in but that's only for the entrance to the uh facility that that's correct okay um one more thing the the rear parking lot is in horrendous shape currently do you will you will you totally repave and refinish that the entire rear lot yes so if you could see the difference in in the shading so we have a darker gray and there's the dash line here everything that's shown to the left of that will be miled removed and then repaved as part of the application and we will be restriping it so we will have a 2in pavement overlay and 4inch wide white striping thank you uh I guess one last point I'd like to make uh just to expand upon how the circulation of the building is going to work from a vehicle standpoint so the front of the building will be for the Senior Life facility and then in the back of the building because there will be and continue to be other tenants in the building on the lower level there is a medical office and then there's also a child daycare so the child daycare will be utilizing the middle parking lot here which I believe is 39 parking spots and there peak times of dropping off children and picking up is either usually like 8 o'clock in the morning or 5 o'clock at night so mainly this at parking lot will be majority of the time utilized just for that operations of picking up and dropping off and then the parents leave and then during the day the um the tenants can you know walk here that's kind of the operation of it and then the rear parking lot will be used for for our tenant space be for 15 buses and then for employee Park and John just so the record is clear and I think it's obvious from your colored rendering which is A1 my my client's proposing to lease the second floor of the building now the second floor of the building though is at grade in the in along 202 206 correct that that is correct yeah okay and the other uses you just mentioned are on the first floor of the building correct that is correct okay and either the doctor's office of the child daycare none of the customers patrons or employees would be using the port to coare entrance on the second floor is that correct that is correct okay I just wanted to make that clear for the record there any I'm going to move to the architecturals unless there's any yeah unless there are any questions I think he's ready to move on to the uh floor plan yeah any further question yeah I have I have a question so okay so let's talk about the Portico share um is there a parit on that it looks it looks looks big it looks thick can we pull back up that original image and and just is there a is there a parit yes there is a power pit and then if you can just I hate to take Mr Burr's stage I know he'll ask about drainage so while you're at it won't you just talk about the the drainage uh and then the how how tall the parit is and I'll refer to the architectural uh drawings in a minute but yeah there there's going to be a Power Pit on the building um so the way the drainage Works uh I'll go backwards so the drainage uh it's majority it's this is going to be constructed out of steel steel columns and then open bar joist so so that'll be the construction of it uh so there's four sets of two columns um one is decorative on each of these uh two columns so um one will be structural one will be decorative and then in the far rear right um that's where I plan to put one of the the roof drains it'll be kind of internally drained and then we'll dump that storm water into the existing Inlet so that's how we'll be handling the storm water um the existing That's How we'll be handling the storm and yes we do have the powerit and the powerit um was an attempt to hide the uh the sloping of the insulation required to drain to the powerit excuse me to the internal drain go to the architectural drawing so I can look at the building elevations so I do have some Heights on there okay so this is the architectural drawing A2 is what I'll be referring to so so the how we determine the height so we determined the height because we wanted to maintain 14 feet clear from the grade to the underside of the ptical share we we were trying to keep in mind that there's going to be deliveries you know you know there's going to be trucks coming here and then if sometimes you know if there's an emergency vehicle that needs to come I want to make sure that they're going be able to kind of get them EAS so that's kind of how we establish the Baseline of the portical share and then you know with a structure of this magnitude you're going to have about three feet of structure and then you know we have a suspended ceiling you know I think maybe 12 feet so and then that leaves you with a parit above the roof and we're trying to conceal a lot of the sloping insulation so it it does look you know does it look super tall I don't I would argue no but the the front of the building now it does have the center portion where the 757 is it is kind of raised up now so we only plan on raising it up another foot so you know we're we're trying to keep in line in the original tent of the building so that that center of the building that 757 helps identify that front entrance even though in this picture you do see a lot of black and it is shaded but that that is storefront and that kind of helps signify the entrance of the build so we just really want to take that and just push it out so the Baseline height you've established because you want to accommodate certain vehicles and then once you've got the baseline or the ceiling height the height of the parit itself was determined to mimic what exists currently because it actually goes above it it in your drawings and could it be made somewhat smaller if you chose to or is there a requirement you're trying to meet that we just don't see yet so yes um we did make an attempt to kind of conceal what was going on with the the sloped installation and um I'm sorry you're starting to Trail off a little bit I'm sorry yeah we tried to attempt to to hide the structure behind it and the sloping insul tapered insulation so um that was the main intent and yes we did really tried to mimic that 557 um you know we didn't want to make it too thin because we felt it becomes too thin doesn't have enough Mass enough structure and you know architecturally the massing you know we it's sometimes it's a fine a fine line does it look nice is it is overly designed you know we thought it really mimicked what was there and if you look at the existing picture above that that five the 757 it is actually a little bit thicker so we really you know we didn't want to mimic that exactly so it's it's uh correct me if I'm wrong you're zooming in I don't want to disrupt everything by flipping into the page is it 6 foot 6 in or is it 8 foot 6 in even with my readers I so it is that's six six okay all right so terms of the zoning it complies with the the height under the height you know at one point you know you have to kind of remember this building it it is um the structure of it I think it's 100 feet wide and it only has a center row of columns on the upper level so I am severely limited what I could put on the existing roof so if I need to put equipment on this building I'm going to look to the portical share to put you know equipment on this building so that's another reason why I have that parit at 6'6 and that's kind of driving a lot of decisions because if you look at I don't know if I can get into this but the building across the highway I'm sorry you can but it's it's irrelevant right now I'm just more interested in your rationale for Designing it the way you did what you're trying to accommodate and then from there you know we're going to we're going to assume that that's your professional judgment and we'll move forward on that basis okay all right any other board questions board professionals please I'm mostly gonna have questions about the interior but can you just clarify so if you are going to mount any equipment meaning um utilities like a you're I'm not say I'm definitely going to do that I'm just I wanted to kind of leave my options open uh in terms of what I can do um that was part of the reason yes okay and can you just clarify I think I misheard it the the parit actually that the height of it full height of it is 6 foot6 and that's the full clearance behind if you're going to put something there um you would screen something yeah that that is correct it is 6 foot6 in height okay and yeah the intent is to screen equipment if in in fact I need to um I'm not saying I'm definitely going to do it but that was that's the original intent on why we we chose 6'6 we we thought it was enough to hide the existing structure and if we in the event we had to put equipment on the roof it would conceal it especially as you're approaching from the highway way you know it's one thing to stand in front of the site but if you go um you're looking at the building to the right the the grade in the Topography is actually a little bit higher so um you would see something on the roof more from that part of the site as opposed to standing in front of it or to the left in this picture and um where are the Mechanicals present they ground mounted on the site there's a few roof rooftop equipment on the roof presently and it is screened and then also on the let see I'm showing the A1 drawing in the upper right hand corner there's and these are pad mounted on grade that these are existing chillers for the heating and cooling of the building okay that's all I have for right now I have a few questions um so just from an aesthetic point of view the building that exists today will stay as far as the existing color materials Etc and your plan is to match the new ptico share with the existing build is that proposal yes that is correct and um Access wise I think you had indicated that you're going to have a main entrance in front of the building but that there'll also be secondary access from the rear first floor of the building which is where the new the six new Ada parking spaces will be so is there is there a Lobby entrance on the first floor that visitors that want to come up to the second floor will have access to the elevator is that and in the dayare has a separate entrance how is that interior space set up that's a great question um um so the way the building is currently um zoom in a little bit here so the identify the sheet that you're referring to for the record this is A1 on the architectural drawings so the the tenant space that we're occupying is exactly the existing same size as the existing tenant space and I will just quickly highlight with the cursor where that existing space is that we'll be taking okay so on this second floor there's two tenant spaces basically ironed out here and then there are two enclosed stairways and then there's also two stairways that are not enclosed and an elevator so all four of these stairs go to each floor um there are common bathrooms and then there's also a common hallway so we want to make sure this facility is secure and to enter this building you have to be identified and you need you need an appointment if you don't have an appointment you can't get in the building unless you're block buzzed in and you're escorted around so even if you wanted to come in we do have security and access in place the doors the way we have the doors working is there will be a keypad at at minimum so if if you work here you will know keypad and you will'll be able to open up the doors to get into the tenant Suites so there's a few different doors that we have one two three main doors off the common hallway so those will have the key uh the keypad and um so that's how we're handling access in the event that someone um a visitor can't park on the second excuse me at the second level out front and they need to have have an ADA spot they would be able to park in the back and they could use um the Ada access into the building and use the elevator but you know again they would be identified beforehand and then you know operationally they would kind of be let in to one of the secur doors and then you had testified that the the Westerly or the rearm parking lot that's going to get repaved that's generally going to be used for bus parking and employee parking that is correct yes and then any visitors to this facility would either park in the front or in the middle area but they will have to coexist with other parking on site for the other tenants right so in the event that there's a visitor and it's going to be a seldom event from my understanding it's not going to be very often they will park in the front by the portical share in the Striped area so that's where we anticipate the visitors and if you need additional clarification ification we do have somewh from operations to testify to that um so we do expect that it will happen in the front of the building in the extreme seldom event that they need to use the Ada spot they would use and share in the back we don't expect that to be often yes um have you seen the memo from our Fire Marshall by chance yes yes I have he commented that the existing fire connection is I believe building mounted on the front of the building and that with the proposed improvements he recommended that be moved out further into the lawn space correct is that something that will be addressed as part of this application I I think we could work with you and and identifying a spot that works for for both of us okay yes I think it's a good idea okay very good as far as um new exterior lighting is concerned is there anything that's proposed with the Portico share is there recess lighting are there sconces is there anything other than the existing you know light Pooles that are going to be going to be upgraded yeah underneath the ptical share we do have um the ceiling grid and in that ceiling grid and tiles we will have light and light fixtures and we we do depict that on our lighting civil drawing so we will have the lights you know underneath the portical share to illuminate it anything building mounted wise no we do not okay it'll just be the existing light poles that we're going to continue to use the existing sight lighting and then the recess lights that are proposed okay that is correct yes okay and the you had mentioned the signage that's proposed on the front of the building are there any changes being proposed to the existing freestanding sign that's near the entrance driveway does that stay the same the way it is the the freestanding sign itself will stay as it is but we will be adding our plate for Senior Life on there understood but the overall sign itself no we're not going to be is unchanged correct I noticed on I don't know if it was the Reynolds plan or or your plans that on the north side of the existing building there's a little fenced in enclosed area that I assume may be related to the daycare but I wasn't sure is that is that for an existing tenant or is there going to be any exterior spaces um a lot for this particular use may have actually seen it on an aerial um on the fencing on the the northern side that's at grade there is a white vinyl fence that's for the um the child daycare facility that's like a playground yeah that's existing and we're not going to be touching that so that won't be part of our application okay are there any exterior spaces set up for this use or is it all inside the building it's all inside it is yes all right um you had mentioned that there are two new dumpsters being proposed or provided for this use on existing Stone pad I think you mentioned correct are are the existing dumpsters inside an enclosure now is there any type of enclosure and if not are you proposing to construct an enclosure to house the the dumpsters you that's a good question they're they're not actually on on a dumpster um that area we found out is is Wetlands sensitive so we actually aren't allowed to build a masonry wall in there to to screen that off so building something in that kind of area is going to be very challenging if not outright um we just can't do it um perhaps uh fencing of some sort that doesn't encroach any of the flow of of water underneath could be considered yeah I think the appli will agree if we were to be approved as a condition of approval to do what kind of fencing or enclosure that would be permitted under D regulations because of the Wetland sensitive area very good thank you that's all I have Mr chairman thank you I have a quick question um we talk about parking before um an operation like this requires U quite a few employees where are the employees going to park the the employees will park in that far rear parking lot far being on the first floor level or the second floor so it'll be on the western side of the site so it'll be um essentially at the lower level the first level so what's easiest way then for them to enter through the first floor and go up or walk all the way up the incline to the first floor that that's a great question so I mean I've been to the building and I used to do stuff there and was always an issue so uh great question but we anticipate that they won't be using where the ptical share is but more of the entrance that's kind of in the middle of the building so you won't have to walk up the incline I believe there's one right on like in the middle on the side when you're walking up the sidewalk on the I if I recall correct they can go in there and does that then enter at the second floor level yeah so they'll enter um at grade on the lower level and then they'll either have to use this stairs or the elevator and then get to the second floor and then enter our space excuse me our space through either keypad well it will be to walk from that parking all the way in the back all the way up front that's a long walk especially if it's raining snow cold or 100 degrees out so you said so like I said if you go in the back or on the side that's okay so there'd be plenty of parking there for the oh yeah there'll there'll be plenty of parking yes all right thank you you're welcome all right on the planner's memo um number six page nine talking about landscaping and Mr pler I saw that you had a response memo and then in there you said the facility was fully developed and you really had no plans for landscaping and that's a little disappointing wonder if we can talk about that yeah well well I I can make a representation like I did with the dumpsters there is no Landscaping proposed with this plan but obviously I I we we understand the board's interest we're proposing a new port to coare a new entrance and the applicant would agree to work with the owner and the town Professionals in adding some landscaping that's acceptable uh to to the town as a condition of approval how about the comment uh quote we note that the existing islands are proposed to be removed from the rear parking lot can these be retained for landscape treats you know the way I I could kind of answer that so the way um I understand it is because of how narrow they are that you know it's really hard to maintain them and keep them you know properly um hydrated so so they just kind of keep dying over and over it it's actually fairly common in New Jersey especially with the changes the seasons and you know salting of of you know the pavement to make sure it doesn't ice over it would be more feasible if the islands were were larger but but that's not the can't be the case here all right so it sounds like your applicant's going to work with uh our Township planner and they're going to come up with a mutually beneficial plan here that that would be acceptable to the applicant yes that would be a condition of approval yes right thank you all right I'm going to open this up to members of the public that would like to ask questions on any architecture testimony they've heard this evening Now's the Time to come up and ask questions all right seeing none your next witness please oh actually yeah can you just give a brief overview of the internal floor plan oh absolutely yeah I I think we should just do that and then I'm just going to open it up again after that to me public yeah thank you Mr chairman okay so I'm going to refer to A1 the architectural upper floor plan I just wanted to just quickly go through uh how the floor plans laid out just so we're all on the same page so on the right hand side we talked about the portical share um for the covering of the buses and then you will enter in the middle here at the vestibule the vestibule um will have secured locked doors so in order to get to the first vestibule you either need key pad access or you ring the bell and they let you in so we we have um so just high level how the plan is oriented on the bottom of the page we will have the four day rooms for the adult uh daycare so we figur 80% of the participants will be in this day room area the top portion of the plan starting from the upper right will be a shipping receiving uh for deliveries whether it's food whether it's um Dry Goods things like that so we'll have a little small shipping receiving area then we have a planned kitchen area which will be more of a warming type kitchen for already pre food meals that'll be warmed up and then distributed during the day as needed and then in the top portion from the middle kind of towards the rear uh left of the page this will be more clinical think of like medical like exam and just getting checkups things like that maybe um some small minor Dental checkups things like that so this is really the just um Medical typ type all the way to the left is um like the business for just dealing with the participants onboarding new customers as needed and then in the central spine of the building is more of uh service type and support so you'll have the program uh you have the receptionist of the entrance and vesu program director and then you just work down the social workers you have the showers and then you have the laundry area and then towards the back here is really support for the employee employee lounge so um everyone um the adults will be within the confines of this space we don't need them to leave so it's all keypad and secured so they can't get out um we have provided enough bathrooms for inside the facility and there was a regulation on how many bathrooms you had to provide so we have more than adequate enough and there is a common bathroom here that's actually in the common hallway that is going to be used for the employees and employees only the participants won't be using that and then uh the balance of the floor is the existing common Carter and the bottom left that great area is existing office space that's the quick existing office space for what purpose it's an adjacent tenant okay that would yeah pardon me Jason tenant which we anticipate office space and again we uh so underneath of us is an existing uh child daycare center the stair that I'm highlighting here on the right we don't anticipate them having to use if they do in fact need to use it it will be in the event of emergency and uh an alarm would go off so um they wouldn't be able to use that door during the day and if it does we would be notified immediately Ely and then the rest of the stairs or even the elevator um we don't have to worry about unauthorized access that's just a quick highlevel overview of the floor plan all right thank you last call for questions members of the public questions thank you thanks a lot John the applicant calls Mark Irwin just stay here that works I've been sitting too long all right Mr irn I'll just remind you that you are under Ro understood all right uh thank you Mr Irwin could you just give the board you're testifying here as a fact witness but just give them a brief overview of your position with the applicant and your background certainly uh I've been in healthcare for over 30 years and have been running the PACE program uh in different regions since 2006 okay great and what are your current uh what's your current title my current en titles Chief Operating Officer of the Senior Life program okay and your duties and responsibilities for Senior Life I'm responsible for all aspects of the program operations Regulatory Compliance as well as development of new businesses okay and just you can confirm that Senior Life presently has a lease for the subject premises confirmed okay um and explain you mentioned the word Pace we did um we why don't we Mark as A3 there was kind of an infographic a colorized infographic that just gives a thought would be a good illustrative tool for the board members just to kind of see the different services that pace provides so can you just explain the type of business that's going to be operated here explain what the PACE program is certainly and again thank you for allowing me to present and answer questions regarding the PACE program the PACE program is actually a Medicare program the pace acronym is the program for all-inclusive care for the elderly New Jersey is one of 31 states that has adopted the PACE program as part of the Medicaid Program so most of the participants are duly eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid what the pace acronym again stands for is program for allinclusive care for the elderly and what we are trying to do our mission is to help Nursing Facility clinically eligible folks seniors that are over the age of 55 maintain their independence in the community and not have to go to a nursing home and we do this for as long as possible now we do use the Continuum we do use nursing homes for both short-term and long-term stays but they remain a member and a participant of our program we're able to keep over 90% of our participants in the community by surrounding them with care and services from our team that includes physician nursing physical occupational speech therapists uh RNs social workers dietitians we provide Home Care all the transportation that we've talked about tonight uh we surround our our seniors with whatever that they might need to help them maintain their indiv dependence and remain in the community where they want to be for as long as possible and again we provide uh we're not only the direct provider we also engage other folks in our Network Specialists hospitals ambulance services durable medical equipment oxygen whatever these folks need we might make repairs to their homes put ramps in their homes to help them be more uh accessible to their own residents and their homes whatever they need to be uh successful in that Community setting all the services that I've just described can be done here at the facility which we are proposing tonight but most importantly we take all those services to them where they live they spend most of their time in their home and we want to make sure that they can maintain their safety in their home so the physician the nurses the therapists they do all the things that they can do at the center they do in their home and bring those services to them in their Community setting in terms of how often folks come to the center each person is care plan differently some folks choose not to come very often they like to be at home believe it or not and they come maybe once a month uh we do have some dementia patients who can't safely be left in their Community setting maybe they live with their daughter the daughter has to work so they come to the center 5 days a week and we take care of them from from about you know 8:30 9:00 in the morning till 4: 4:30 in the afternoon before we take them back home uh each person's care plan is different it's individualized to make sure that we meet their needs uh on average I'd say most participants come about three times a week and uh our capacity uh for the program we've done a demographic study for Somerset County and we anticipate that based upon the the demographics for this County we anticipate the program to grow over several years to about 160 participants think of that more of like of 160 bed nursing home at the center only about 40% of the folks attend on a daily basis so not all 160 people are coming uh our maximum daily attendance we would anticipate at this location would be 60 to 70 people per day at a maximum and that's not for a few years that will actually happen for about three to four years down the road um but that number can change again as as as people's needs change we change and and we develop their care plan around them and we can change in a dime if they fall and and get hurt um we can change their care plan and increase their Center attendance increase their home care whatever it takes to help them maintain their independence and ability to stay at home where they want to be I don't want to get too far into it I'm here for answer questions all right I just have a couple of more things for you sure I think I think the planning engineering letter brought up this is a licensed and regulated program but state and federal is that correct yes it's regulated explain that to the board sure so it's certainly uh it's regulated by the the uh by Medicare they do uh ongoing surveys and ongoing oversight and the state also joins with them and partners with the feds to also provide uh a significant regulatory oversight presence as well okay great and I think you hit most of the points that we wanted to bring out I think it came up with uh the architect's testimony are there really visitors that come to this facility the visitors are are uh infrequent uh a family can come in with their loved one for a a family meeting to discuss the care plan to discuss their um their issues that they may be having medically and help care plan make make sure that care plan meets their needs so family members are certainly welcome to attend the center to meet with the medic medical professionals to discuss the care plan but again that that's an infrequent basis okay great and just the last area I guess would be that the number of employees how they work how they work in if they work in shift the number of employees just so the board can get an idea of how many people are coming and going and how many people will be there at at certain times certainly uh the hours of operation are from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. so the employees will be coming in about a little bit before 8:00 a.m. and they actually are leaving typically earlier than 4:30 because again while they are attending to some of the folks that do come on a daily basis much of what they do is dispersed into the community to go to the homes of the seniors that we are privileged to serve in that Community setting so many of them are leaving earlier in the day to to disperse and take care of folks in the community setting um so but there are people there on site until up to 4:30 p.m. okay thank you that's all I have for uh you Mark I have a question just you can get the number of employees oh I'm sorry uh at maximum capacity there would be about 40 employees um 4 Z yes for 40 employees and again that that will we'll probably initially start out with uh about two dozen and that will grow up to 40 as our capacity grows and our census grows everybody in this circle of support these people are all full-time members of the organization the staff you have a registered nurse a recreation yes those are full-time employees and there's one of them two of them uh it depends upon the the discipline for example we have one nurse for every 25 members so as our census grows we continue to add staff as the population grows and says he a primary care provider so there's a doctor on call as well or is's a full-time physician on premise again he might be part-time initially but eventually full-time thank you certainly and and those and those Prof professionals are available just programmatically they're available to our to our seniors 24 hours a day 7 days a week even though the facili closed we still have an A Nurse that's on call and a physician that's on call to meet any questions or issues that come up after hours so this is all paid for through Medicare Medicare and Medicaid both uh we they both pay a capitated payment to the provider to us and we become responsible to meet all of the needs hospitalizations ambulance rides medication uh all the Direct Services we've talked about so we're responsible as both the provider and the payer it's a very unique integrated model it's a very successful and frankly the best best long-term care model available thank you I have a question for you yes sir um you said that most of the participants still live at home let's use that as an example yes so then you go your bus goes to each of the house and Picks Them Up that's correct we take them to we pick them up with our transportation service and we bring them to the center but we also take them to any medical appointments that they have so if they have to go see an optometrist or the dentist or they have a cardiologist appointment or need an x-ray we would pick them up at their home take them to that appointment and return them back home so they basically become a member of your group then yes in a sense that's correct it's not just to you drop them off they do whatever during the day you're actually taking care of a lot of their yes life activ it's very all-inclusive and it's a very integrated model so we become both both clinically and financially responsible for their care okay so you could have somebody that you're taking to two appointments on one of your buses and they actually never make it to the center that day that's very possible yes that's why you're saying the average is 60 70 a day at Max yes yes just because they have an appointment that we're carrying for them uh doesn't mean they're coming to the center so that's true okay sorry thank you sure question so if I think I understand your question CMS doesn't set how many they don't set a cap on how many people can enroll in the program that's set by the Medicaid Program the state actually determines how many folks can set can be enrolled in the program currently there's not a cap on the amount of people who enroll so it's up to us to help the community understand the program and it's up to the uh um the state to approve people who would be eligible for the program they have to approve that they are Nursing Facility clinically eligible or sick enough to be in the program they approve who can enroll in the program and they set if if they want to they can set a cap on how many people could be in the program based on our demographic study we think that's the number of pace eligibles and a market penetration of about 15% we think that's about 160 people that would be uh participating in the program at Max Capacity which again takes a few years to get to the state controls that or Medicare the state control it's it's over it's regulated by by Medicare and Med and Medicaid so both Medicare in the state but they let the state determine how many enroles are are that they they want to have enrolled loation yeah well it's a capitated payment program that this the Medicare pays us a certain amount and that's different for every individual based upon their Acuity and then the state pays us a capitated amount so we join those two Revenue polls that money's pulled together and then we are fully at risk for whatever happens them so uh we may we may not do well on some some folks because they've had a hospitalization or heart surgery and many things have happened to them and then be other folks that we um we pull those resources together to cover everybody's needs so the state pays us a flat fixed amount Medicare pays us uh a different amount based upon their it it's kind of complex but uh that's the rules that they've set I hope that answered your question okay thank you Mr Irwin what if any relationship would there be between your Senior Life Center and the senior centers that are already in town whether they're Municipal run or County run or whatever sure so we offer a very similar Service uh but we recognize that some folks they want to maintain their their relationship with their physician so we certainly allow that the same thing for the adult daycare some folks have a a friendship group or a neighborhood group that they they enjoy attending a certain adult daycare so we would actually contract with them to pay them to allow that participant who's under our care now to continue to attend that adult daycare so they could attend ours but if they already have an established relationship somewhere that they don't want to disrupt we would be the payer to send them to that established adult daycare thank you questionin [Music] at least that's my perspective providing Beyond with the senior yes we we do that we provide the activities we provide meals for them on site we provide the transportation at our cost uh but to your point we also provide Therapy Services on site we can provide showers as as the architect described so there's personal care we even bring in their laundry you know and since we're fully at risk as the provider and the payer you know and that that person has a laundry machine that down in their basement and they're a fall risk it's a lot better for us to bring their laundry in and do their laundry for them than to find them at the bottom of those steps injured it's a lot less costly for us to do a couple loads of laundry and make sure that their laundry needs are met than for them to take the risk of going downstairs and doing their laundry so we do all those traditional things and then the medical component on top of that and the risk management component on top of that does make this a very successful and useful model um yes what would I believe it was said before I forget what was the age of that you can start in your program it's age 55 and up all right so my question is you do Medicare Medicaid do you have any interaction with New Jersey DDD no not no other would not okay so just a Medicare Medicaid yes okay thank you yes I have a question um what are the furthest communities this facility will serve like where how far the participants where they reside the the New Jersey has awarded us all of Somerset County so anything within the Somerset County lines um that they want to join the program our our services would reach them okay thank you Senior Life have other facilities that they're operating currently in other counties we operate in 13 counties in Pennsylvania we're the largest PACE program in the state of Pennsylvania this will be your first in New Jersey this is our first in New Jersey yes one of two we we're also developing a site in P County thank you yes um Mr irn thank you for your letter July 11 2024 um just have a question about Senior Life you're a for-profit yes sir and where are your offices based out of uh our offices are based out of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and following with to Mr kolak this will be your first New Jersey run facility that's correct we had to go through an application process through the state of New Jersey and we are awarded two counties and which agency awards that again it's the Medicaid agency it's the the and what would be the closest contingent facility to this water fac our closest facility to here is in in Bethlehem PA Lehi Valley we have 400 participants in a facility there again Senior Life is for profit yes sir okay that's it thank [Music] you other questions for professionals I know this question's been asked a few times I don't want to believe it so the the program is entirely regulated through the Medicaid or Medicare yes for both and so um in you know similar but different facilities like uh assisted living and and Memory Care those have regulatory requirements through the state as far as licensing this has no licensing regulations um through the state of New Jersey no there's not technically a license but there is a provider contract okay and that's I guess and a set of regulations yeah codified okay um as far as some of those um kind of the responsibilities as a provider when you take on um these basically patients and all of their care that does that include any kind of extracurricular activities um for the group as a whole do they go on shopping trips do they go on field trips things like that outside of the facility yes we can uh those are limited just because of the mobility issues of of the folks that were responsible for there were some questions earlier about making sure that the sidewalk was um had easy egress because again most of our clients are challenged with their Mobility they have either Walkers or wheelchairs uh that we're dealing with in terms of uh vress and such so um it's a it's not a very easy population to uh take in you know on trips what we do instead though is we bring entertainment into the center so we would have the ability to through the adult daycare side provide activities and engage with uh local choirs local uh elementary schools and such to bring the entertainment to them okay and so those would be um you know based on I guess seasonal or holidays or you know whatever brings up the event and so they would be something that's coordinated and and taken care of like that yes there's a daily activity calendar okay [Music] um I'm not sure if it if it came up with the architect or not um I know you mentioned something about the mobility issues um the site is is uh unique in that it has you know a grade A significant grade that goes back which is why the building you know is how it or looks how it is um and some of the kind of uniqueness of the floor plan shows that there's kind of like an Atrium in the rear portion of the building do that in any way pose a security or mobility issue to the the the patients on site so the patients on site are going to be funneled through that front entrance so when a on a typical day a when a participant arrives arrives we call them participants or members when a participant arrives they get a name tag they're welcome into the facility we keep a log for fire uh safety reasons evacuation reasons of who's in the building and all their U entrance and departures are through that front area that employee Atrium in the back that would be used for really employee only um entrance so there would be no I can't see a scenario where there would ever be a participant coming through that back entrance okay so there's security measures within even the building footprint Beyond this outside doors internally in the building the the the patients are going to be you know limited to certain areas that's correct okay and that's for security to avoid Wanderers and safety yes thank you sure um as far as the the staff besides nurses Physicians doctors um that are either on call or there uh is there any special qualifications that employees have to have any kind of certifications or anything well certainly depending upon their position and discipline you know licensed nurses licensed therapists licensed Physicians and such but then they also go through through an orientation on a competency annual competencies um pre-employment requirements background checks those types of things okay all all regulatory required okay thank you um I think that's all I have for as far as operations Tes thank you thank you I I just had one follow-up question that relates to parking overall on the site you mentioned I think you said 40 employees is that Max that's envisioned at this point yes so so 40 employees could they all be on site at the same time or is it very likely depending on each day may they only have it's unlikely that they're all on site at the same time but it's possible it's possible that they'd all be on site at the same time and you mentioned um of the participants the max you would Envision is maybe 60 to 70 per day is that what I understood or is that yes and there is no occasion where a participant may drive themselves to to the facility they only get there via the buses it it I would say 99% are brought by bus okay and as far as visitors you mentioned that you know on a rare occasion a family member may come yes so there's not going to be in your opinion a huge draw on parking on a daily basis outside of the employees is that that's fair okay and you had mentioned I think Miss sarmad asked if if there were any outside field trips or you know things along those lines propose you said more often you would bring entertainment in could there ever be a scenario where you know somebody comes in and now you have families of all the participants coming and it and it becomes a larger event that this site is not equipped to handle or is something like that not Envision on this site no that that that does not typically happen even when we have entertainment it's really focused on the participants who are there for the day it's it's usually focused what's part of the specialty about bringing the folks in on several days a week is that the folks who are the caregivers we try to prevent burnout by providing them a break so they're not typically coming in to to participate in the activities with them they're kind of you know gives them the opportunity to go to work or go do grocery shopping or go do things that they want I I only ask because I know there's a children's daycare here and I I picture like a graduation for the children's daycare I didn't know if there was an equivalent of something like no like that for this type of facility that that would really create an issue on the SES no nothing like that okay thank you certainly thank you Mr follow-up question yes sir um you said Medicare pays for this so uh someone would walk in and they might need dressing or bathing and depending on what services they need that would be the price that Medicare would pay so when somebody enrolls in the program they designate us as their insurer as well as us being the provider so we are the recognized insurer we replace their Medicare we become their Medicare essentially so Medicare pays us and the amount that Medicare pays us is based on the patients's Acuity their diagnosis profile so it depends on what their diagnosises are as to what we get paid and every patient's a little bit different as you can imagine and if someone has long-term care insurance could that offset something that Medicare does not pay currently we don't have any agreements with long-term care insurance payers we're not seeing a large presence of that so far but um we would certainly be welcome to talk to them thank you certainly juming further it's open up to members of the public for questions on operations testimony come on up we can just get your name and real quick hi there hi I'm Mary Gallagher I live on 102 Highland Avenue and um I have a couple of concerns I actually like the program it sounds great um but the one thing I have is first of all the buses you didn't say what size they were were they big or they little are they the little ones that are for handicap with elevators and with the parking with a bigger bus like a school bus um I'm just thinking that parking lot looks pretty crowded so I'm not sure the size of the bus and then the next going into that my what initiated this thought was the I live on a residential street just down the road from 202 206 and I'm concerned about the traffic and Highland Avenue is used as a a cut through for everything and it's getting worse and I can see 10 or 15 buses going up at a time when we've got school kids at bus stops and people coming to and from work we've got the recycling trucks we got the garbage trucks we've got everything in the world coming down the street so I'm concerned about traffic there too on the residential streets I know there's not much you probably can do about that but I am concerned about the traffic as well and again it's a residential street people walk on it um they their bikes their skateboards and all of that so I'm not trying to take away from the building part of it but I'm want to tell you there's an impact to the neighborhood I like the program I would like to see it you know maybe work Miss G I got to interrupt you I'm sorry okay I'm sorry so he gave operations testimony you can ask questions on the operations testimony all these comments I promise at the end of the case you can speak for or against and put all those things on the record I'll give you as much time as you need I believe and Mr pler can correct me if I'm wrong there's also going to be a traffic expert which I think a lot of those questions you can directly ask and we're going to try and do that in the in the near future back to the operations so when you're talking about the buses going I think the buses is a good question yeah Somerset County you're going all over so get Mr Irwin that microphone that's on the table maybe he wants to take a stab at it I I didn't know if you you're the one I should ask about that because you did say it covered Somerset County so you would have buses going all over this the counties so how is that impacting us how would it okay I want to make sure I want to make make sure this is on I want to make sure Mr gallager I answer both your questions first yes we would be going all over Somerset County and and bringing them back to you know the the the station is or the Hub is is the center so those Vehicles even though they may not they may be going out and delivering people to specialist appointments in in different places throughout the county you know picking them up dropping them up the hospital picking them back up after their testing and and so forth they may not be coming back to the center but they would be coming back there at the end of the day to your to your point uh the types of buses that we have we currently in Pennsylvania I'll give you an example we have 140 vehicles on our Fleet that Services 13 counties those buses are made up of three primary Vehicles there is a 12 passenger bus there's a Transit bus that holds about six people and then there's a minivans that hold about two people and they all they all U handicap accessible they all have lifts that they they can all accommodate wheelchairs Walkers whatever the ambulatory status of those folks are so we use a combination and it would depend upon where we're going if we're just coming to your house to pick up somebody that's probably going to be a van if we're going to a senior highrise to pick up four people that come to the center that's probably going to be the transit or the 14 or the 12 passenger so it you know we we we don't have a oniz fits-all approach it all depends upon what we're picking up and where they're going I hope that answers your question it's not a big school bus no no no big school buses uh the largest capacity bus we have is about 12 passengers and again that's because we try to keep people on the bus for less than 45 minutes to an hour and again to do that to pick up the folks that we're picking up who you know aren't moving that quickly um you know we can only put four to six people on a bus to get them especially if we're stopping at four or six places to get them back and not have any one person on the bus for greater than an hour okay thank you I hope I answered your questions all right and see no other members of the public think it's going to wrap things up and we'd be open to a break if you are Mr plocker it's 8:30 want don't we do 10 minutes thank you thank you Mr IR so we're going to reconvene at 8:40 we going to take a quick break we'll see you back in 10 minutes e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e turn my microphone on we're going to come back in the session Roger get a a roll call please here here here here here here here here here okay thank you very much the applicant calls our traffic engineer Rihanna kersha good evening hello okay uh the microphone a little closer sure all right Perfect all right uh thank you Miss kersha could you just uh give the board very brief the benefits of your credentials sure I am a senior project engineer at Dolan and Dean Consulting Engineers in Somerville I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey um I graduated from Stevens Institute of Technology with a bachelor in engineering and civil engineering and I've been in the traffic engineering industry for approximately 10 years and have testified in front of various boards across the state you testified in bridgew I have not had the pleasure I've testified in surrounding towns though well welcome and we accept your qualifications thank you okay thank you Miss kersha and your your firm Dolan and Dean prepared the traffic study for this matter it's a letter dated July 29th 2024 is that correct that is correct and you were familiar with that study yes I am okay could you please explain uh the study's findings to the board sure uh so what we did as part of our engagement with the applicant was just review the impact of The Proposal from a traffic engineering perspective and what we found was that with this ret tenancy of the second floor this is a very light traffic engineering case uh to Pro to project the future additional peak hour trips associated with the proposed use we um consulted with the applicant about the anticipated operations um which we then as summarized in our table one of our report would estimate approximately 61 trips during the morning and evening peak hours that encapsulates both employees and the busing activity during that time time um and what we did as part of a comparison exercise is recognizing that the second floor is currently vacant we assumed a medical office type of you similar to what's permitted in the zone if it were to ever be reoccupied by something that is permitted um so that is also summarized on table one within our report and what we found was that the proposed use would generate an additional eight trips during the morning peak hour um but unv verely would generate less traffic than a standard medical office use should that have ever been um permitted So based on that comparison the anticipated peak hour operations are almost identical during the morning and evening peak hours to that of a medical office and can occupy the space um to the medical office that can occupy the space without a use variance um also previously noted or maybe not previously noted uh the site is accessed bya full movement driveway to Route 202 206 um under the proposal we're not proposing any changes to the existing driveway there's going to be no work within the state right of way and the proposed use would not result in a significant increase in traffic uh pursuant to do standards which is defined as 100 additional peak hour trips so pursuant to the state highway access code the applicant is exempt from any NJ doot permitting and the existing permit is remains valid a that is in a nutshell the summary from a traffic engineering perspective okay thank you Rihanna you're welcome or questions please board professionals thank you um so I understand that this use category seems to be very unique or it has not yet been captured um either by you know the Township's parking requirements nor really the it um is the the numbers that were utilized were they based in it or they were just based in the kind of the operations um parameters that you were given the traffic projections are just based on the operational information we got from the applicant was there any ability to utilize um it data to to do a compar another level comparison with it it recommends that when you have operational information that you should rely on that more so than the generalized information you get within the it manual okay and these these um estimates from operation standpoint these are the worst case scenario I'll call it what we found well what we did was we kind of found like a middle ground between what they anticipate out of the gate um a middle ground between that versus what's maximum occupancy so what you heard was that at the start there might be approximately two dozen employees but they can accommodate up to 40 we kind of found a middle ground with 30 to assume that 30 staff members would show up within the peak hour where the other 10 might show up a little bit earlier or a little bit later outside of the peak hour so that's what our projections show okay so there's there is your testimony then that there there would never be a time when 40 employees would arrive or exit the site at the same time yes and that's just a general assumption okay um as far as um the parking I don't know if you undertook any kind of uh parking analysis or or assisted the civil engineer in um coming up with the number of spaces that would be required for the use um but it you know can you respond to that as part of our engagement we did not really review any of the parking um requirements or calculations okay uh in that case I will save that question for the civil engineer that's all I had for the traffic engineer thank you setting aside the fact that you didn't review the parking needs separately have you taken a look at the different users or tenants of the site to make sure that from a circulation perspective access perspective can this site operate safely with the various tenants in terms of when their peak hours might coincide we did not look at that necessarily in detail recognizing that this isn't a traditional you know medical office use with you know significant turnover we do do recognize that in the morning there are going to be employees coming to the site for this particular use at the same time that parents will be conducting uh you know drop off at the daycare but what we why we don't believe that parking is going to be necessarily a concern is just given that the operations will have a relatively um come and go kind of activity over the course of the day when generally roadway volumes and site volumes are not at its peak you're not seeing this conflict with those operations in place and I think we heard earlier testimony about the daycare and how there may be times drop off in the morning and pick up midday where there's actually vehicles that stack up around the corner of the building albe it might be for short periods of time but did you look at that and again you're comfortable at the fact that these uses can can coexist I did not NE look at the daycare operations in terms of that specifically but I do feel comfortable with how the pace um program will operate that it would be easily accommodated and the the existing parking lot to the front of the facility that has the turnaround bulb area did you take a look at the circulation the the truck or the the bus moving template or was that just a a Reynolds Group issue that I just want to make sure that you're comfortable that a bus can safely navigate around that turnaround area the bus that's proposed for this use that was primarily done by Reynolds okay and last question has to do with the the dot permitting it's not uncommon for an applicant to obtain a letter of no interest from do that is great um heard your testimony and your opinion is that something that's warranted for use like this a letter of no interest right absolutely okay very good thank you you're welcome all right open up the members of the public that have questions on traffic testimony all right seeing n we're going to close that portion thank you thank you so much the applicant uh will call our engineer uh Adonis crispo and Mr Chris I'll just remind you that you are on the roow yes okay uh now we we weren't uh proposing any major sight improvements but in light of the questions uh raised by the uh board's planner Mr criso can you just uh identify uh how we calculated obviously we're seeking a use variant there's no parking requirement in town for this particular adult daycare use could you just explain generally for the board and the professionals how the parking requirement was uh calculated and what your opinion is as far as whether it would be sufficient for the use as you heard it described by the other Witnesses yes uh in our opinion was that we patterned it with uh Child Care requirement that's also uh using the facility so whatever numbers required for the child care is the one we use for the senior care that's what we shown on our cover sheet and what what is that requirement I believe it's a what's the standard for child care it's uh three spaces for um one space I'm sorry for three children in enrolled so that's the same case for the seniors it's one space for three seniors and Mr pler your witness can we just have his qualifications and uh I I I apologize problem problem we move so quickly through Miss Kershaw I recognize we got an hour left and I appreciate it trying to keep it moving I'm sorry this happens every now and then could you just please describe your qualifications for the board oh yeah um I'm a foreign graduate to start with uh I took my PE in early 2000 and then I work with uh Reynolds group for almost 20 years you're an employee of Reynolds yep all right thank you thank you okay uh thank you Mr crispo just hang questions question and you heard the testimony here tonight by Mr Irwin and the other Witnesses Mr crispo yes you you heard the testimony that we offered tonight yes okay and and in and in your opinion with the parking calculations as shown on the site plan in your opinion would it be sufficient to accommodate this particular use and the number of employees that were testified to yes thank you thank you board questions from Mr chrisbo site engineer is that his title yes all right all right board professionals it honest um so the turnaround area you just heard me ask the traffic engineer about the turnaround your office ran the bus turning template around the existing bulb can you describe that does does the existing turnaround area accommodate the buses that are proposed to used for this project yes uh we did that and um what we use is that the the the small bus that going to be used by the facility was used you know to to make make sure to make the turn in there and also to go through the Port crusier making sure we can clear the The Columns so it's your testimony that the bus will be able to navigate through the portare around the bulb and then out safely oh yes very good and just for the record Mr bir the applicant will represent it will not utilize any larger buses um one other question as it relates to the overall sight Improvement package we heard prior testimony that the rear parking area is going to be milled and resurfaced can you just describe for the board the condition of the center and front parking lot the access driveway the curbing are they all in good repair now anything that's not proposed to be improved on your plans are they in good condition they are yep they are in good condition the pavement is just like because of age that we need to do a milon overlay but that should be sufficient for the use of the you know the facility okay they're in good shape bill I mean yeah and has your office inspected the existing drainage facilities on site the drainage structures and and piping have you inspected that or your office we did look uh not to the extent that we did a you know a CCTV but we look at the visual on the outside and they're functioning they're functioning and um this this may be more a question for Mr pler but would your um client either the owner or the applicant agree that if there's drainage structures on the site that need repair they be repaired as part of this application that would be acceptable not suggesting they are that's why I raised the question I did note that the drainage curb pieces on the existing catch basins are out of specs so we would expect those to be replac with the the NJ DP compliant head pieces but if they need if the structures themselves need repair I'd like to see that happen as well yeah yeah whatever the DP standard is they'll make whatever maintenance or repairs are necessary correct thank thank you Bill all right members of the public questions for Mr krisbow site engineer all right seen none I'm going to close that portion okay thank you very much Mr chrisbo okay uh very briefly because I know is mentioned we're going to call representative from the owner Jacob zarinsky all right and just for the record I did not I did notify Mr Aller he is represented by his own council tonight so if his own counsel can question him I have no problem with that if it's okay with the board sure that's that's good we just had one open board member question from board member Sweeney about rear lot access and sharing um yeah so there is no agreement in place currently um we haven't had an issue with it in the past but the for the last 2 years there hasn't been a tenant in place in the upstairs space so um there hasn't been as much uh traffic in that back lot um if it becomes an issue you know we would need to address that and how about um just explain Drinker bid on wreath I'm sorry I can't hear you Anthony Taro Law Firm fakery Drinker bid on wreath my firm represents the owner and landlord of the property so we just figured we were listening back fully supportive of the project and a couple questions regarding the existing yep yeah just got to keep it up not not used to the concert the uh and so we just wanted to highlight a couple of the uh bring I guess answer some of the questions for yeah first floor there's two existing tenants on the first floor there's two existing tenants on the first floor uh the daycare which is 12,000 ft and then the Doctor P was, 19900 square fet and how many employees uh does the daycare have right now the daycare has 30 employees all right and how many designated spots are there there's 22 they have 22 Reserve spots yeah all right and in the morning and for drop off the so they have 22 Reserve spots and then if the other employees will either Park in the general parking after that those spots are typically used for pick up and drop off just yeah at different times they do drop off at 8: a.m I mean and pick up at at 8 A.M and or drop off at 8 a.m. and then pick up at 5:00 p.m. it's on the opposite side of the building correct right so there should not be any conflict with the pick up a drop off of the applicants proposed use no and so the doctor's office how many employees the doctor's office has five employees at any time uh there might be 10 people in the space with with visitors and um patients and there's more than adequate parking on site for them yeah I I would say so and there will be 162 total spots with this project yes it's more than adequate I think it's more than adequate um for the doctor's office they're allotted 12 spots if I remember correctly the daycare is allotted 52 spots and uh 82 spots for uh that's way more than than currently used correct way more than that's currently in use yeah and this is the only proposed use for the second floor yes just a quick question for you when Mr Sweeney had brought up previously that there is access from one lot to the other and you said it had not been a problem up to this point right if it were to become you said it would need to be addressed what would you propose to either solve the issue if if it arises or is there some there's no existing agreement between the two Property Owners there's no there's no existing agreement I would propose first to um use signage that says that it's a private lot um and if the situation got worse I would reach out to the the my neighbor there and and and see what could be done about it yeah is there any is there any need to have that access for emergency vehicles or anything like that there's existing adequate access for emergency vehicles I was talking about specifically that area that we're talking about which provides access between the two lots so I'm asking is does that have a in any way a need or would provide a solution for emergency vehicles accessing the properties it's wide enough I I believe I I I think are are you you're asking if an emergency vehicle could use it as an egress yeah I think it could yeah okay yeah yeah um yeah I think the the move the the thing to do would be the signage and and speaking with our neighbor but um never to to close the egress obviously okay thank you anyone else all right for professionals this is um maybe not even a question for this applicant but it's something I'll raise and then bring up back to the the um applicant seeking the variance um the the parking table for the use provides that all of the parking needs are satisfied on the site based on um the various uses that have tenants and then the various um office BAS that are untenanted um based on a parking ratio for the Township Code they are compliant with the number of spaces they based on their calculations that the applicant provided on the site plan they do exceed where they are proposing 162 spaces and 131 are required the teston I just heard was that the child care center reserves 22 spaces um has 30 employees but on the site plan it shows that the need for the child care center based on the enrollment of the children and the township requirement based on that enrollment which is one for three children is 52 spaces they they Reserve 22 spaces um so that they can be close to the back entrance of the building so those the 22 closest spaces would be reserved sorry I didn't mean to interrup you you answering my question and there's a different there's another portion to it it's I just want to clarify that there are another 30 spaces basically to to hit that 52 there are 30 additional spaces on site somewhere that the the child care center can utilized okay they're just not delineated in any way restricted in any way right right okay and do you believe that the new tenant is going to have any impact on those 30 free spaces no I don't believe so okay thank you very much I want to real quick ask you one more question about this cross access driveway in your time working with this particular property have you seen occasions where the facility next door uses your parking lot or vice versa do you ever have an overflow on your site that you need to use next door so we're we're talking about the rear parking lot now right correct the rear most parking lot has that driveway that extends to the next door property um it would be a question for for my super who's there daily um I'm sure at some point it has come up where someone's driven through or maybe just sat in their car in the lot um I haven't seen that it's a notable issue that has but but you don't have any knowledge of there being such a parking deficiency on one property or the other that all of a sudden you have many cars parking across the way for for whatever reason no no okay very good thank you is there an opening so we're talking about this opening that's on the south side of the property that links up to the southernmost property on 202 206 right do we know if there's an opening on that property further south because that's going to be a manufacturing facility which is approved by the planning board and I I am concerned potentially overflow coming from two properties from the south migrating two properties to the north which is your property why don't you close that access why don't you just shut it down we we haven't had an issue with it in the past we could close it it's also for emergency purposes as well in case they have to get back there yeah what are your thoughts bill this is a a potential issue in the future um I I think I think the board could certainly ask that if it's not permanently closed maybe as a condition we get some type of gate up there I mean something like a even a chain link absolutely just you know strung across like we do with other senior living facilities I don't really see it being of any value from an emergency response well what we do on Frontier Road I I like that it's just you know it's a chain and EMS knows to lift the chain go in there and they can come in from several other properties and you don't want to I think it's a good suggestion gate it or or or chain it um absolutely yeah we can put a gate as a condition well it's something that we would certainly look into we just want to make sure because well we're talking about it being a condition to this approval yeah you can come back to us we we have an opening in January or February if you want to come back no we don't have an issue I'm I'm sorry in terms you're asking in terms of putting the fence or putting a a chain link or I'm talking about going to Home Depot and getting some chain absolutely absolutely that's something you can do yes yes all right yours Council so is that is that an okay answer that's fine we will running through it right now just because all right Access Lane so and just for the record chairman F that would be condition of approval yeah okay thank you yeah but so so that I have it right for the resolution what are the what's the lot in block number for the adjacent property get that you know yeah or we can fill in the blank when I you know why why don't we proceed and I'm going to do my magic it's amazing what you can find on Google yeah got block 476 Lot 21 yeah yeah any other board questions board professionals members of the public sounds like we're good thank you thank you board 21 is to the South that's what we want to shut shut down with the chain sorry yeah okay s all right great our Final witness uh we call Kevin O'Brien our professional planner uh Mr O'Brien could you briefly go over your credentials for the board wait I'm sorry before you do that did we ask for public just I okay all right go ahead can you hear me now perfect very good thank you and Technology Kevin O'Brien professional planner U Been a planner for 38 years licensed by the state of New Jersey I'm certified by the American Institute of certified planners I've had the honor of being in your position of serving on uh the three boards in my town uh zoning board planning board and Redevelopment I published I teach Planning and Zoning for ruter the New Jersey Association of Planning and Zoning administrators New Jersey officials as well as at the New Jersey League of municipalities I've worked for about dozen and a half Towns over my career uh I am slowly cutting back things so it's fewer towns today but uh for instance currently I'm working in Union County for uh raway and Kenworth I used to work for Long Hill and Mars South planfield in um South Playfield and north planfield in Somerset I have appeared before over 275 boards in 14 counties in the state over my career and in Somerset I've had the pleasure of appearing in Bedminster Branchburg here in Bridgewater Franklin Green Brook Hillsboro and Warren like you're more than qualified Mr O'Brien good evening thank you all right all right thank you Mr uh obrien uh so the applicant is Seeking a use variance for the adult daycare use and the associated bulk variants for the front setback in relation to the port of coair if you could just please go over the planning proofs for those variances sure thing there are unique aspects to this application which is required for a use variance use variance applications before you have to show you that there are special reasons rooted in the basis of zoning in the municipal land use law that it meets the positive criteria that it can be reconciled with the master plan and zoning ordinance and that it meets the negative criteria and that there' be no negative impact as part of our special reasons we have to show you that this is a unique property with unique circumstances that would allow the board to consider this for a use varage for instance in this particular case uh this is very unique because a senior adult daycare is an inherently beneficial use it crosses the boundary between child care which is inherently beneficial by Statute and senior housing which is also inherently beneficial by Statute this is a very rare and unique combination of those two uses uh that I believe makes it inherently beneficial you've heard that this adult daycare is licensed by the state professionals are licensed by the state and it is a federal program under Medicare and Medicaid you've heard extensive testimony about the PACE program program for allinclusive care for the elderly no need for me to go further into that but that is a unique program and the state of New Jersey is starting that across the 21 counties this applicant it will be serving two of our counties and residents within each of those counties are eligible for this care there'll be no physical change to this building with the exception of I guess you could call a port ker if you're an architect I just called a portico some people call a canopy so whatever you want to do it I find Portico has fewer syllables so I may use that word uh the employ the seniors are bus to the daycare as you've heard in testimony there will be no drop off individually with extremely under extremely rare circumstances that are um contrary to that the area around this application is a mix of corporate office buildings and some residence to residences to the north which are extrem extremely well buffered the proposed use is ex is much less intense and what is currently allowed in the GCM Zone such as nursing homes assisted living as well as Research Laboratories and corporate offices the master plan does have some guidance on this application the most recent reexamination in October of 2022 lists a number of objectives for the township and amongst them are preserve the development character and quality of Bridgewater Township promote the well-being uh excuse me the well balanced variety of residential recreational public commercial industrial and conservation land uses guide Land Development and location of community facilities in order to meet the me the needs of Bridgewater Township residents as well as coordinating future growth with needed expansion of public facilities and services this application meets those goals by providing a senior adult daycare center in a particularly suited location that provides area seniors with federally and state recognized Medical Care while allowing both the patients and caregivers to remain a part of their community this application is also supported by a number of passages from the municipal land use including those are item a to encourage Municipal action to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state B secure safety from fire and other disasters C provide adequate light air in open space g provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of uses to serve the needs of all New Jersey citizens I promote a desirable Visual inir and M encourage coordination of the various public and private procedures and activities shaping Land Development to the more efficient use of land this application meets those goals by providing code compliant inherently beneficial senior adult daycare in an appropriate location that capitalizes on its proximity to area roadways in terms of a negative impact the third prong of a use variance application because this is an inherently beneficial use uh this application answers to a different set of rules than most of your use variance applications what is it is inherently beneficial we use what uh is called in the planning and legal Community the seeka balancing test I'm sure you've heard this for various applications the seek a balancing test basically shows how the application satisfies the negative criteria through four questions that are asked at the A and the first question is identify the public interest at stake and the answer to that is that the public interest here is providing a senior adult dayare facility second question to be asked as is identify the detrimental effects that would ensue from the grant of a variance and in this situation I don't believe there are any this is an Adaptive reuse of a corporate office that is currently vacant this is in a developed area connected to Regional excuse me Regional roadways this is not a green space that we are going to plow over cave over Instead This is an Adaptive reuse of an existing third question to be asked is whether the board can reduce any detrimental effect by imposing reasonable conditions I don't find any identifiable detrimental effects however of course in the in the process of the testimony and hearing in front of you the board may wish to impose reasonable conditions on this applicant as they see fit based here this evening and the fourth question is the board should weigh the positive NE negative criteria by balancing the public interest against the public detriment in this case the public interest of providing that adult senior daycare center outweighs the unidentified detriment point out that there will also be major positive seniors will receive a federally recognized Continuum of Care it is not offered elsewhere in Somerset County seniors will continue to live in their community and caregivers will continue to participate in the workplace or the community as this application is for an inherently beneficial use it does meet as I've stated and read the goals of the master plan and the municipal land use law we meet the negative criteria by using the a balancing test showing that there are no detrimental effects of this application the board can course impose reasonable conditions based testimony there are no conditions to be imposed in order to satisfy the public good in this particular case because the adult daycare is particularly suited to the proposed site will have no negative impact surrounding bulk variance that's re re ested for the front yard setback or the Portico can be granted under the flexible C2 standard that the benefits outweigh the detriments and that the proposal is a better planning alternative and a more conforming design I will conclude to the board that I believe this application can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without substantial impairment Zone plan zoning ordinance I welcome you I have a question um from earlier testimony it was mentioned that this would serve Somerset County you mentioned that there were two counties that were being served can you clarify no uh what I said was that pace is going to be offered in two counties of New Jersey by this provider it's being provid it's also being provided in all 21 this application is only for Somerset County and only for Somerset County thank you question on inherently beneficial use yeah let me I was going to get why don't we have the the lawyers in our planner kind of Duke this out because you you were pretty definitive in your your definition and I'm going to step out and and let Mr all hop in here well just the ordinance talks about child daycare we we're splitting hairs maybe when we talk about adult daycare so I don't know Katherine do you think it fits the the statutory definition well inherently beneficial uses are it's it's a there's a black and white definition um that the mlul states and gives examples defines examples there but then the courts have also ruled and made determinations which is where the gray area comes in because the courts have ruled on certain uses which have then kind of um you know set precedent um of the precedent I don't know of any adult daycare uses that have that have um been R determined by the courts to be inherently beneficial and that's they they haven't been captured historically but the thing about it is that boards can can accept the testimony from the planner if they find it compelling that this is inherently beneficial wordworth to find this use so similar and so beneficial for the community it could make a determination that it is inherently beneficial even though the statute doesn't specifically identify adult daycare yes and it's up to the board even if a use was categorized as one of those ones that have been set by the courts and if the board felt that the testimony and the details provided didn't didn't really match with that then they can still make that decision um that it doesn't need rise to that level and I'm not aware of a case that says adult daycare is an inherently beneficial use but not withstanding that I think the board could still make that determination Katherine could you just for especially the newer board members just go through what inherently beneficial use is you know house of worship a hospital a school um and then you know dovetailing on Mr O'Brien's testimony I I I think there clearly are aspects of this facility that have been testified to by the CEO Mr Irwin that do lend Credence to the inherently beneficial uses here but why don't we just educate the board real quickly on what inherently beneficial means and then each board member can draw their own conclusion based on what Mr o'briant has provided to us so the ml um defines inherently beneficial use as a use which is universally considered a value to the community because it fundamentally serves the public good and promotes the general well welfare such uses include but are not limited to a hospital School Child Care Center group home or a wind solar phot photov voltaic energy facility or structure as I mentioned before that definition is not exclusive and over the years the courts have identified it and accepted a number of beneficial inherently beneficial uses in addition to those that have been defined which include places of worship Community shelters public housing public interest housing such as senior affordable housing uh public utility installations health care facilities for the elderly group homes and schools for the developmentally disabled is it your opinion that this facility does qualify all not in the the letter of the law but perhaps in aspects of each of those definitions of those different categories I think you know similar to child care facilities and this is a as as you know the average age goes up and as people continue to age and um it's it's an unfortunate kind of section of life where now elderly people need care and they want to stay with their families uh and they don't want to go to an assisted living facility and leave their homes this is a newer emerging alternative probably within the last you know 5 to 10 years that we're seeing um very similar to child care facilities where it provides a daytime opportunity because families still need to work but they also want to take care of their elderly parents or grandparents that may live with them or may live nearby um and so I I believe and I don't think it was provided in the application materials as inherently beneficial so I do apologize that it was not something that I got into my review memo because I normally would talk about about this and I would talk about the seeka balancing case but I don't believe the application M materials indicated that no I was surprised also by that that that was being sought um but I have um represented boards in other places that have had adult daycare applications similar to this one where they have proferred that it was uh an inherently beneficial use so I I semi expected it to come but didn't know it wasn't part of the application this isn't unheard of it's not unheard of to for it to be offered as such um and I do believe that um because just because the courts haven't ruled upon it yet is likely because it is an emerging industry it is something that's meeting is beginning to meet needs of of people and families um as they age um it's a bit of a newer industry correct right and let me just ask the witness do you think that since it's a newer industry um does that uh I'm trying to reconcile why it's omitted as a permitted use or omitted from the master plan right so so maybe you can just give us some testimony just in case with respect to uh you know the reconciliation aspect right so and why you think it you know it may have been omitted as a permitted use certainly and uh by the way I take no exception to any of the discussion that's been had and thoughted it's right on tget this is one of those those towns where I work I call them gray uses when I talk to the board because it's not specifically prohibited and it's not specifically allowed so I call them gray because I tell the boards that well this means they can make an argument nobody thought about it one of the things I found that when you write an ordinance or a master plan it's a snapshot in time Municipal land use law same with any of other regulations we have they are written at a time they take into account what the current conditions are and they can be changed over time changes SL for instance let's just say the last 20 plus years thees occurred worldwide web the internet revolution of the late 1990s it really didn't come to fruition till the early 19s who would ever thought order your groceries and have them deliver all through device 911 unfortunately the anniversary is tomorrow then inket Dems number population the amount of resources that are devoted to the medical care for senors and those demographics are driving the medical bus in terms ofi areed are living longer they need care they're caregivers Sons daughters nephew are unable to provide that 24 saw the graphic numerous so I don't think that this is something that was anticip know has good atamin not only you like unlike what we've done way sort of like it's of like a child because she got to make him happy I I I would like to ask just a quick legal question because you you spoke of the inherently beneficial use and as Katherine said and perhaps you said as well that's typically a black and white type of issue here we're in a gray area could the board approve this without necessarily saying that it was inherently beneficial but rather it was beneficial to the community and therefore met the criteria necessary for approval and I'll ask Mr Aller that's why I asked them about reconciliation right to to if the board said well you know really don't want to deal with it as an inherently beneficial use does it otherwise meet the D1 positive criteria one of which is you know how do you reconcile the fact that it's not a permitted use right right and what do why is it omitted from the master plan discussion and I think the answer is that um you know the population is just aging now every year seems to get you know life expectancy charts are you know greater and greater um it's just an emerging industry that wasn't really contemplated in the ordinances when the ordinances were um were put together and I think that's you know what he said and I think that's a fine answer okay and it sounds like Katherine you're in agreement with this if we yeah and I I'll just on that same question there the the seek a balancing test so if you did accept it as an inherently beneficial use the proofs related to that are a little bit less than because being if you accept it as inherently beneficial use that automatically satisfies the what be positive criteria wise and Mr and outlined kind of those other steps that you look at in the balancing test so you consider the public interest in this use um you identify any negative consequences to Grant use variants um you consider any conditions that can help mitigate any of those negative consequences and essentially you balance the that out way um so it's not a automatic approval but it is you know seen as a a lesser threshold than a normal D1 VAR proof um what I will say is that in addition to the question that Mr olist um provided with and the and the discourse between him and Mr obrien to the board um he did Mr O'Brien did provide some of he did talk about particular suitability again not a proof that's required under inherently beneficial use but he did provide some proofs generally when we're in this gray area I always recommend that the planner provide the D1 variance proofs so that the board can make that decision on the use variance regardless of whether they accept it as in beneficial use or not so that's protected under the normal D1 use variant that's the medich and and you you're satisfied that we've met the the the enhanced criteria that's needed if this wasn't inherently beneficial so I so let's put sea to the side I believe he's provided the proofs that and satisfied the proofs all the different topics he has to hit in groups in order to request it as a D1 use variance that's not inherently beneficial this board has to just simply make that decision I guess about accepting it as inherently beneficial use or not based on the determination based on your deliberation because the Sea Test kind of makes you think through those steps a little bit more distinctly than the than a normal D1 under the case the board has you have uh some discretion to determine inherently beneficial or just a straight D1 Mr O'Brien's provided clear balancing tests under both situations I think he's provided the proofs for the balancing test talk through those more explicitly and within that testimony he did also talk about positive negative criteria he talked about the particular suitability and then he talked about kind of the why it's omitted from the master plan and zoning ordinance and it also gave some proofs about the mlul um purposes as well great thank you all right my question I feel like has been answer to do the other board members have any other questions for Mr o'ri board professionals I think I all right and members of the public all right seeing none thank you Mr O'Brien that was very good testimony thank you Kevin the applicant has nothing further Mr chairman do you want to wrap up there Mr plocker do you have a closing statement No not particularly just to to clear up uh I I thought we we heard from Mr Irwin and I thought he gave a very good explanation of what his company does and how it is beneficial to the community and and just to be clear with the variant discussion that whether or not this board deems it an inherently beneficial use uh under the land use law which is a bit of a lower standard I do believe Mr O'Brien provided the necessary proofs for and the applicant certainly takes the position that he showed that demonstrated to the board that the site is particularly suited for the proposed use and did sufficiently address the negative criteria under the enhanced standard of proof required by the mediji case thank you got it I I want to go back just matter of housekeeping the September 3rd the Burr surar The Joint planner and Engineering memo basically anything that we didn't hit tonight we're going to assume that you accept and now is kind of the time that you if you take exception with any of the points that were raised here I I just want to get them on the record because we're going to assume that you're in full agreement with all 10 pages of their memo and I'm just going to review my notes because I I did review it extensively please take your time well I'll take your time for 20 minutes Mr chairman I I believe we hid all the salum points but to the extent we didn't there is nothing in the letter that we cannot comply with or simply said we will comply with whatever the recommendations are subject to the specific uh conditions that were discussed and if you could just take us through what you're asking the board I know we have a D1 and then we've got a front setback on a C2 flexible c yeah so Ju Just to recap uh the two so we variance wise we are seeking a D1 uh use variance under section 7A of the municipal land use law Adult Day Care is not specifically permitted in the GCM zoning ordinance so we are seeking the D1 and in connection with the preliminary and final site plan approval for the addition of the P to kosare there is a setback in this Zone front setback required of 100 ft and the port to kosare proposed I believe has a setback of 602 or 6 63 ft it is to be clear for the record 62 ft is proposed all right Mr all could you take us through the conditions of approval so we discussed a few different um conditions in the event it's approved that would be to uh relocate the fire department connection to the front lawn close to Route 202 206 in accordance with the fire Marshall's requirements uh install a fence enclosure around the refu area as permitted by njd regulations in coordination with the township engineer um install additional Landscaping on the site to the satisfaction of the township planner uh obtain a letter of no interest from NJ do the maximum size of buses to be used at the site will be 24 feet did I have the 24 right because the chart came off before I wrote that right 24 okay 24 uh 24 feet in length if the township engineer determines any drain inst structures require any uh any repairs those will be made we'll install a chain um to block access to the adjacent property of block 476 Lot 21 and it be subject to the conditions set forth in the joint memo between the the CH Township planner Township engineer dated September 3 2024 uh before we open up deliberations I'm going to ask members of the public that would like to speak for or against this application to come forward all right see none uh throw it down to you Mr Fresco your thoughts please uh you know I I support this I think it's um I think it's a good use I I was a little concerned I still am probably if anything about the Portico being a little a little too big a little too thick a little too close to the road but um you know which is why I I express some concern about that but overall though I think it's a good application I think you did a good job presenting it your Witnesses did a good job get getting through everything um and I think it uh I I don't know if I go with the inherit good use so I think I'm going to go with the other side um just cuz it's a for-profit I kind of think I'm hung up on that and I love for-profit don't get me wrong but I just think if it's a for-profit how you know so whatever but I I I I'm going to support this uh this application and I think it's I think it's good so thank you Mr Sweeney um what I love about the application is the fact that it's going to make use of some empty medical or office space I wish there were more solutions around that we could use here in Bridgewater to do more of that um in in fact I I'm I'm surprised I never heard of this PACE program program it sounds wonderful it really does um unless you're selling us something that we're not aware of but from what I've heard it's a wonderful deal it's a terrific program and I'm strongly in favor of approving the application this is the mean based on the information that we have in front of us most of the who come here talking to and uh dentist and whatever else and it's more like a medical facility then they take care whatever so this a medical facility there are so many medical offices around that same building to the South and across the street so I don't see any problem in approving this thank you beautiful thank you Mr plocker you've done something historic something I haven't seen since 2014 Mr Sweeney said I am strongly in favor of a project to this day I have never seen it he is one of the toughest people he was chairman of this board all that you hear out comes out of my mouth I learned from that gentleman he's an expert and to hear him say something like that you by all means certainly have my support I I will further expand because I do hope that there are more uses like this in Bridgewater Township there is a proliferation of empty office space just by the virtue of what has happened during covid and and telecommunicating is rapidly changed and speaking to Mr O'Brien's technology changes in the last 20 years just the last 5 years has upended the office space market and I do hope that more people come and look at uses like this because Bridgewater is a wonderful place to do business we have a wonderful demographic and aging demographic um I do believe this is inherently beneficial um while hospital is defined as inherently beneficial I know many for-profit and nonprofit uh hospitals that are that are in effect in in New Jersey um this touches a lot of the child care and there's a lot of parallels I think to that inherently beneficial use um while just from a social aspect that maybe even a house of worship may have and there could be a rabbi or a priest or uh a holy person that could come in and and conceivably give Services here so I I do think you touch a lot of the inherently beneficial uses and even you know on a on a on a whole some of the parts I I think you do hit that criteria so I'm strongly in favor just like to quote Mr Sweeny I think that's wonderful and uh I'm going to be in favor as well Mr widley uh I'm going Echo also what Mr Sweeney said too um I had never heard of Senior Life until I got my packet and started doing some research and everything and we are growing and people are living longer and need these services and I think that it's a terrific service that you offer I'm very glad that Mr irn came and gave a terrific presentation and overview of everything I think that made a lot uh the whole application a lot clearer and I think that your whole team did a terrific job and I'm going to used what Mr Sweeny used strongly approve and agree with the application thank you Mr bonjour I also like the application I think um something that was necessary um I also have never heard of it I'm hoping that they can work through uh and May long-term care money uh in terms of insurance I still don't know if it's going to be affordable for a lot of people but uh I like it and I'm in favor of the application thank you Mr cat um I'll keep it short I don't think I need to say anything more than what was already said um I would support the application thank you Mr kulak I to have very little to add but I would strongly support the application and the the aspect of whether it's inherently beneficial or just beneficial I I think is incidental to the decision that the board is about to re render so I too would support this wholeheartedly thank you very much uh it sounds like based on the the the deliberations here we have a a will to approve this do we have a motion I move was Mr Wy and seconded by Mr bonjourno and as an inherently beneficial use that's a good good question gentlemen well we we can think it out I'm sorry I didn't hear well guess they want that's what I'm asking do you make a motion yeah do you have a motion as inherently beneficial or yeah let's go that R you want to second that Mr bjo second it all right so we're voting on a D1 and a C2 front setback with the D1 having a seek a balancing test of inherently beneficial based on the motion I have that right Mr ol all right motion to approve as inherent like benef yeah I'm ready Mr yes uh yes yes yes yes yes yes well done sir good luck thank you everyone Brian I will need the transcript you will order it and provide it okay thank you all right if there's no Roger what's our next meeting date maybe you can help me out with that I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me thank you the the next meeting is September 24th there are three residential applications on that night nothing else just the three all right just so everyone can hear September 24th 2024 700 p.m. this room we have three residential applications it'll be a busy night and if there's no other board business could I have a motion to adjourn please second all right Mr Deli and Mr bonjourno we're ajour thank you everyone thanks every thank you Brian whoever said something