##VIDEO ID:bunvpclkdus## know I went by yes and I went by on Sunday and I saw the debr on there I don't know if anybody all right good evening everyone we're gonna call the meeting to order apologize on the delay it is uh 7:06 December 10th Bridgewood Township Zoning Board of adjustments regular meeting both adequate electronic notice of this meeting specifying the time place and manner in which such notice was provided in accordance with the open public meetings Act njsa 10 col 4-6 specifically on January 9th 2024 proper notice was sent to The Courier News and the Star Ledger and filed with the clerk at the township of Bridgewater and posted on the municipal bulletin board Please be aware of the zoning Board of adjustment policy for public hearings no new applications will be heard after 9:30 p.m. and no new testimony will be taken after 10: uh if you're able please rise for the salute to the flag FL United States of America the stands naice [Music] good evening Nancy and Kevin can we have a roll call please before we start Mr chairman I'd just like to introduce Kevin luwe our new zoning officer and board secretary Deputy we'll figure it out great want to welcome Kevin welcome nice to meet youall likewise chairman fous here Mr widy here Mrs Amin yes Mr Sweeney here Mr Fresco Mr bonjourno absent Mr gesi also absent Mr seat here Mr kulak here Mr vesio here Mr gabbit here for the record Rich Aller board attorneys present Katherine sarmad board planner and and Bill bur board engineer you have AUM and our new zoning officer our new zoning officer all right all right thank you very much uh at this point I'm going to open the meeting to members of the public that would like to speak on any land use issue that is not on our agenda tonight seeing none I'm going to close that portion we're going to do some board minutes tonight we've got five sets and um why don't we try and group them I know there's some changes we have a couple sets of transcripts I I just open it up to changes and comments on any of the minutes I know Mrs Amin you had a few we have five or six minutes I have six I have some little minor connections connections here and there okay which I will go with Nancy Nancy okay you can mark it but you agree on the spirit of what was' discussed at the meetings the break of when if they editorial changes I will'll pass them along to Joanne she prepared the minutes okay and she'll make them we can adopt whichever ones Miss Zine has revisions to we can adopt them as amended assuming that you would all be um all right so I'm going to go back to Mr fo's question is there was no major discrepancies just minor okay then I'm fine with that little bit of typos or those kind that's fial so we'll adopt them all right with her changes so I'll seek a motion for the Cosmetic changes and that we're all in agreement anyone that votes yes is going to agree with the spirit and the the concreteness of the of the minutes that they properly represent what was discussed at this at each meeting I move it all right that was for all six Jim all six of them with Mrs Amin's Mrs Amin was the second on that it okay we start with October 22nd did you want to roll call each or just want to do we're going to roll call them all so it's it's August 13 2024 through October 22nd 2024 one one General vote okay we start with August 13 we we can group them all together do one vote oh six we just did yeah the motion was for all six okay chairman F yes Mr Wiley yes Mrs Zin yes Mr Sweeney yes Mr Fresco yes Mr Cat yes Mr kulak yes Mr vesio yes Mr gabbit yes all right thank you we have resolutions we've one that was for 821 hawthor Avenue any comments or changes I can I have a motion please I move Mr widley second I'm second Mrs amitt chairman F yes Mr widley yes Mr the mean yes Mr Sweeny yes Mr gesi I'm sorry he's absent and Mr Cat yes no one else was eligible all right thank you very much Nancy all right and as for our applications tonight um before we do that rich why don't you just take us through what we're going to have at our reorg meeting I know we yeah we quite a few yeah the board is uh carrying seven matters over to the reorganization meeting they are 1200 route22 land investors and 1200 route22 LLC holding uh visions and Pathways 821 Bridgewater LLC and the Jewish Community Center of Somerset hun and Warren uh CX Towers St Bernard's um of Clairol uh Bridgewater realy 2 LLC which is Starbucks and the belly Holdings LLC again all of those carried into the reorganization meeting in January 14th 7 P.M in this room so rich at that point we're just going to reschedule that correct they will all get dates at the reorg meeting okay I'm looking at the number that I the to of seven applications being moved yes yes they will get dates hopefully on January 14th stay here all night it'll be a busy 2025 for sure while we're on if I might I was going to wait for new business but it's this is getting a little disturbing we've got seven cases they're going to take on average two meetings per case if not more than that agreed that's 14 meetings yes more than halfway through next year couldn't agree more we need to figure out a way to encourage only encourage applicants to present their applications in a much more efficient manner okay a much less time consuming man you might also want to think about going back to the old schedule which had three meetings per month I don't know the answer I just I'm bringing up what I Nancy has thrown out a couple ideas but because take Starbucks for example we blew the case up because someone was going to die if it went forward the way it was um you go 1,200 land use that's a Redevelopment issue that's probably going to come off the first of the year Nancy suggested maybe we start some meetings at 6:30 that's a possibility that's a notice problem but if you go through each one of these it comes down to the applicant every time now we have two houses one of which burnt down recently in town I have moved them up I've worked with Nancy if I am chairman next year I want to hear that case first and tonight we're hearing the residentials first I'm with you Mr Sweeney we got to get these guys moving faster if I was paid by the hour though I see how these things drag out well we should all be thinking about could agree more in a more detailed fashion our re I don't have any of us but we should be thinking about how we can speed up this process I I agree and thank you for bringing us up and we'll work on it I agree this backlog is too long and I'm going to agree with Mr sney we have to find some sort of resolution to this because even if you use the average here and add in new cases we're into 2026 at that point yes and we do need a resolution to this agreed well at some point the board could entertain special meetings I don't know that you need to have three scheduled for every month going forward but you can do special meetings as you see fit yep right the the only issue I have with that is we used to before you were on and Jeff might have still been around we did have the first third and last and we eliminated the one because just whatever reason of the time but the problem is that half the time we come and we find out just before that we give up our whole night to begin with and find out we're not going to meet and that really bows up somebody like myself so is it fair to add 20 12 more meetings a year no that's what I'm saying you could just add a special meeting as so we would schedule it and the way we've been working all of this year is we'd end up with them oh yeah 5 minutes before something happened with our meet well before we talk about this too much and lose tonight's window for the two cases let's just bring it up let's bring it up at reorg let's enjoy the holidays let's hopefully get through two cases tonight and we'll take it from there I am very blessed that we have Nancy and now Kevin helping juggling all this because behind the scenes with every case there's a notice issue there's objectors that come up there's a a myriad of different things that happen that creat create these delays it's certainly not this board you know I think we're pretty damn efficient and we've never not had a quorum we've never not had more than you know less than seven people here and uh you know it's certainly not our fault so thank you Nancy for a great year in advance so with that said uh we've got our resolutions done we've got our announcements for our cases done we're going to move on we're going to put our residential case first and I believe that's Mr solivan representing 10 Asante Lane thank you yes good evening representing the applicant initially def Mr to let us know if we have Juris yes Mr Sullivan I've reviewed your notice uh it's in proper form was published timely and served by certified mail to the property owners within 200 feet timely so the board does have jurisdiction thanks uh brief introduction of the application um I'm representing the applicants who are the owners of tennis Sante Lane uh that's lot 47 in Block 9006 as designated on your tax mapping as shown in our variance plan hey hey John could you use that microphone we're having problems with that one if you're going to stand if you want to sit that microphone I'll pick you up my back's a little stiff so I'm going to try and stand as much right possible uh yes so the property's located at tennis Sante Lane uh lot 47 block 9006 um as you may be aware where a Sante Lane is a uh a private Lane um the actual Frontage for a Sante Lane is on Washington Valley Road and then a Sante Lane um meanders up the uh up the mountain a little bit and I believe there's six um private uh six Lots on there five of them which are um developed at this point uh property is located in an R50 Zone we have just over 177,000 square feet on this lot it's currently a vacant parcel of land uh there was previously a home on the property and that was demolished uh many years ago because it was not in very good condition our application before you tonight is for a bulk variance um to permit the construction of a brand new single family home on the lot uh and the bulk variance in question is for lot width uh because of the fact that we do not have um any Frontage on a public road and only on a Sante Lane um we're taking the lot width of a of a Sante Lane as 79.4 fourt uh as our lot width and we would have required 165 ft um otherwise uh the lot itself in terms of its width along a Sante Lane I do believe exceeds 165 ft the plans that we've submitted are the architectural plan prepared by architectural plus dated July 22nd of this year and the variance plan prepared by the Reynolds group dated uh March 8th of 24 and last res revised August 27th of 24 um other than that one variance we are pretty um we are compliant with everything else that's required for the uh lot and our Witnesses tonight I'm going to have uh Gregory egnatuk testify um he's the potential builder of this home uh he's not going to testify as an expert he's simply going to explain to you uh the plans that uh for the house that we're proposing and he has a little bit of historical information regarding the prior dwelling uh we have Mitchell ardman he's our engineer and we have Michael pesano who is our professional planner and if I may I would begin with Mr egnatuk you want me to swear all your Witnesses at the same time we can just get them all up here be great and our folks too if you would rise and then everyone just raise your right hand you solemly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God and just from my left to right just for the record State your names please p p s o l o Greg eggnut Tu e g n a t thank you everyone now uh Mr egnatuk you're you're a um a builder by trade yes and you're the potential builder for this particular home yes and can you uh explain to the board uh the home that we want to build why don't we start with the the prior home um a little bit about that what was on the lot an idea of it size sure uh the existing home uh was built in or the original home I should say was built in 1942 uh it was about a 3,000 squ ft three-bedroom two bath two full kitchens and a onecar garage with a large Morton Building uh that was in the rear of the property which had an office and a bathroom in it uh it was demolished in 2016 and all the permit demo permits were closed out so that was completed uh the new home uh that is uh being proposed to be built is a 3224 ft Colonial um the with a two-car garage the house is 71 ft 6 wide by 38t 10 Deep approximately 32 ft uh high high it has uh four bedrooms on the second floor with two full bathrooms um it has a guest room on the first floor with a full bathroom um it has a half bath a full unfinished basement and uh unfinished attic uh above the second floor living space it has a study a family room breakfast room kitchen dining room foyer mudro and a 214 by14 foot exterior deck now uh there was a previous application on this property um back in 2013 uh We've submitted that resolution in our application materials and um that did involve um the demolition of that original home and an approval for the construction of a new single family dwelling is that right yes and in terms of I know the resolution did not have a whole lot of detail but it did say um that the house would have to be no larger than 40 by 80 um how do we match up in terms of what was previously yeah the uh it was a 40 by 80 uh envelope that the house had to fit within and we are 71 ft uh so about 9 ft short of that uh by 38 deep so about a foot and a half short on the depth so we're within that footprint yes and I believe there was also some um site improvements that were to be made you just described those and um whether or not those have already been taken care of uh I'm not sure of all the site improvements uh I know they had to run to sewer in they had tree plan things but all of the improvements that were listed in the application were signed off on and approved and then I think it was also um a requirement of that prior resolution that a um an ease and maintenance agreement be recorded in the county clerk's office for all of the owners of a Sante Lane it was correct was done correct yes we've also submitted a copy of that with our application materials um essentially it gives access to all all six of the Lots up here to use the road and then it calls for shared maintenance to be and the cost to be split amongst all of those laws Mr s so the road is owned by y I can have Mr ardman address that a little further it looks like the road itself is actually located on this lot lot 47 have given the right to everybody else those are the only questions I have for Mr board questions yeah what's the story with Services is there is it a well is there going to be blasting is there electric there water service all that uh there is a an existing well on the property that uh that was capped which we are going to utilize uh the sewer connection uh the sewer line is already run and it's t in for that lot uh there is existing uh electric on the property and existing gas in front of the property or professionals I do not have any questions great I have no questions for this members of the public questions see none thank you Mr Sullivan thank you he Mr AR do you just State your qualification certainly uh heard I was sworn in i a president of the Reynolds group I've been a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey for over 30 years I've testified boards uh throughout the state over that time for site plans and subdivisions uh I have testified before this board it's been quite a while I've also had the opportunity with the township engineering office over those 30 years to do roadway and drainage Improvement projects this board certainly accepts your qualifications and an expert in engineering thank you Mr chairman thank you and Mr armman you prepared the uh the plans and the accompanying drawings that we submitted to the board yes I did and you visited the site and you're familiar with the application that's correct and could you explain to the board um the site as it currently exists and you heard um Mr W deli's question about Sante Lane could you address that as well certainly and what I have before you and if you want any handout copies um is an exhibit basically it's the sheet that we submitted that's P1 uh well um John we're going to mark that A1 applicants exhibit one yeah and and for reference P1 uh revised 8 2724 uh which has been just colorized for for presentation so just for orientation and uh I will try to be brief because we want to move these applications along uh we have Washington Valley Road on the bottom of the site that is the South we're basically across from Newman Lane is where the entrance where aanti Lane comes up aanti Lane is in in gray here and it comes up uh to through this site uh and to the proposed property you also see it veering off to the right and you see a second existing house uh it proceeds once you get to the property it also proceeds to the west and goes off the lot onto Lot 56 and further to the West our planner actually has another good aerial exhibit that will show the surrounding Lots but as you heard it's this lot plus five lots that has that have access to this the property slopes from the top from the north Southward on on the lot there are a um a few steeper slopes but there no slopes over 30% and minimal over 20% um the area which we're proposing to put the house on uh has been generally cleared there was a the existing house that you heard about I'm pointing out on the rendering here it's kind of on the Northern third of the property uh where the house is going there was a large gravel area on the property as well that gravel has has since been removed from the property um so um that's kind of the existing conditions there are uh it's a mixture of wooded areas and kind of scrubby areas around where the house is going back to aanti Lane I yes there's well documented um cross access easements and maintenance easements we as I said we've been doing work in Bridgewater a long time we know some of those old lanes are not well documented this one is and has uh good easements and um maintenance agreements be between all these Lots so once again it's it is located largely on the property one small correction not to not to say our attorney would ever make mistake but just to clarify there is the bulk of the frontage is on a Sante but this lot actually does front on Washington Valley Road with that Dimension you heard at the setback and that's you'll hear about that it that is what the variance is for this application for the 79.4 fourt versus the 165 ft required um so for posed again it's the single family house you heard Mr eggn describe you know colonial style it'll fit well within the neighborhood I was going to go into the utilities but you've heard those described already as part of the other conditions of approval on the prior application some of the um like the well is is there and and some of the other Taps were put in um so that is really uh the nuts and bolts of what we're doing I think the the best way to give you any more information is just to go to your your um staff uh joint engineering and planning review memo and I could hit on a couple of those other points that haven't been answered as yet will the electric utilities be underground we we got to get you on microphone yeah can't do it that way first announce who you are so the record is clear uh right now the uh the electric service is overhead and comes through this lot that fronts on Washington Valley goes through the center of this lot to a pole that's located here and then it cuts off and services the house to the right uh jcpnl is going to remove this pole they're going to install a new pole here and it's going to run straight instead of cutting through this lot it's going to go straight up that lot and they've given us the option of either putting in a doing an overhead service to our home or putting it under it's kind of at our discretion at this point I see thank you just a couple of things that I wanted to cover in the planning report um there was question about the F correct uh yeah so uh the F was calculated based on that um house size that you heard from Mr magnit and again with almost three times the size we're well below technically we could have over a 20 some thousand foot house so we'll be well below that and um we've uh as to kind of jump ahead with that calculation we did factor in the the hillside uh reduction factors that are needed so that is on our our zoning chart but I'll I'll clarify any questions that staff may have on that and the only other thing I think is is there going to be any tree removal in replacement sure we do have marked on the plan it's limited to just six trees that are uh in that area of the house that that will be replaced as part of the the old approval that you've heard us uh refer to there were nine uh pine trees that were required and if you drive up there you'll see and it kind of blocks The View downhill and as they've been planted many years ago those 6 to8 Footers are over 20 foot high now and aside for there's actually over 12 of them except for one of them leaning a bit they're actually in good shape there and I'm sorry are we are we proposing any additional trees um none proposed at this time U as part of the package I'm sure the homeowner will do some landscaping around but there's really with the existing trees that are around the lot and the house it's going to sit in that nice wooded Enclave there I see in the white box this is existing tree to be removed right there's there's that about six trees total okay and you've already planted nine I heard yes so where you going to put these six you're going to replant them oh2 so we didn't have a plan for replanting this let's come up with one real quick okay I mean this is on a hillside in Martinsville and you know it's people look up at this this Hillside think it's important to maintain the the canopy okay where do you think you can fit in six trees oh there there are plenty of areas like I said said there are wooded areas of the site there's some dead trees that are down so uh I don't think we'd have any problem working with staff to fit them on the Lower Side a lot to help give some some screening although the house will be pretty well screened and then to infill on the Lots just some open areas all right so Mr Sullivan you would stipulate that any removal would be replaced in kind thank you can you tell the board um with respect to a Sante Lane as it pertains to this lot and provides access to the lot as I'm looking at the drawing to the right as a result of the construction that you're planning will a Sante Lane be repaved um both to your new house that you propose and to access to the house to the right the driveway coming into the new house that that is going to be new Pavement in that area right not a plan to repay the remainder of a Sante Lane I was up there driving today and it's not in the best shape then if you Veer off to the left and go up to the homes that are higher up it's not in great shape either but I'm guessing those are driveways quote unquote it's no longer a Sante lane or am I wrong it's well it's private uh and it's all labeled and it shows on the tax map as a Sante Lane also but it's a private and that you know those homeowners have have driven that for a while I was there at the start of the job was there again today probably pasted you but um it's in fair condition but it's I was just curious to know if if you planned on establishing kind of a baseline by repaving it as part of the construction project and then moving forward there's some sort of maintenance plan that would serve all the neighbors because I I'm not clear how the all of the homes interrelate to the maintenance of a Sante Lane if at all other than a gentleman's agreement well it's it it is more than a gentleman's because it's all filed and there's deeds and and easements there so that gives them prescribed rights there and you know each person really on their own lot is responsible you know by this application we really couldn't insist on the other people upgrading their portions either of the driveway okay thank you you referring to the easement and maintenance agreement uh the only other point um Mr bur brings up about the drainage so again we we will be having if you look at overall from what was here and you heard about the house and the Butler Building and all the stone that's been removed it's actually reduction from what was there I Concur and I'll put the notes on the plan for Mr bird that were a minor storm water development since they're well less than a quarter acre of of new um impervious area uh the drainage right now uh there's an inlet uh that's actually on the the high side or the house side of where Sante Lane goes to the West needed a little cleaning out today so then probably a little more maintenance and I would say on behalf my client that can be a consideration to make sure that that Inlet and that downstreet pipe get cleaned out as as part of this application that won't be a big task there uh but as far as storm water I um unless Mr was looking for anything else I think just making sure the drainage goes towards that Inlet um and gets piped on where the drainage uh goes down south from there I think that would um take care of our our drainage for this property so I have a question the green part that you have on your uh drawing yes does that represent the property that is owned by by this particular owner right that's correct okay now when I look at the the top part there is a very small strip of green is that also part of his property uh go down go down south this the bottom you come from uh Washington Valley and you make the turn yep so so that particular road is passing through the property yes that's part of this lot that's part of the through his lot okay yeah that's part of the 4 Acres of this property I see okay now how wide is this road it's it's about 12 to 14 ft depending where you are on it it it varies two lanes right one going in one going out are there two lanes for that I mean it's not striped with Lanes here it's it's an old Bridgewater private private Lane with that many houses if someone is coming up and then uh you get stuck or you you have to wait my experience on these there's plenty of room to yield you might you have a a tire off the edge to to give common courtesy and let somebody go sure but there there are plenty of with the driveways in different areas to pull off there's areas to pull off and and give a courtesy pass to your neighbor okay all right all right any other board questions yes I I've got one um and I apologize if you mentioned this earlier is the proposed location of the new home the same as the location that was proposed back in 2013 basically yes it is okay thank you I have a question just to clarify things I'm looking at the far I know it's well under the limit here but you know I'm looking at your Hillside development 144,000 Square ft of developable area and looking at the far of 0036 that will yield a 5200 ft home I'm just trying I didn't I'm looking at what your far is in your application which is 036 and looking at the hillside development calculation that you have 144,000 Square fet um I mean that would yield a home about 5200 Square F feet and just just want to get some clarity how how do you how' you calculate a your far here for I know you're well under limit I just wanted to Clarity just to make it clear exactly sure so and that may be what your planner was getting at if there was a discrepancy in the number I thought we we used use the the lower number you know there's the uh full sight number and the lower number but I think the testimony is that you heard that we're going to keep the house size as uh Mr egnatuk um described so if I have to adjust that number sure not a problem but that that's the that's the house size that it'll be the 32 about 3,200 square F feet okay thank you y all right board professionals thank you um the the colorized exhibit um is the is the green intended to show areas that are that are not paved or is it just to to outline the area of the the lot essentially both yeah so the gray should just be the paved area Brown is the house okay there was um if you look closely if you look at the variance plan um that was submitted as part of the application there's an area that says Stone directly behind the proposed house is that is that an existing part yeah there is is a busy plan there so a lot of it was showing the same thing that is the Old Stone that was there many years ago that has been removed okay so we can clarify that by note that'll be resed I suppose with gr it's a good portion of surrounding the house okay that actually has been done okay thank you um and then as far as the F calculation I believe the the 3200 or so square foot home is accurate based on the F worksheet that was part of the application package the Bridgewater Township form and it but it also includes about an 1,800 foot basement which contributes to the F so I think that's where the total F calculation comes from if I'm correct and correct me if I'm wrong but um I believe that's where the to the total comes from so they they calculated it correctly but the 3200 feet is a little bit often that it doesn't capture that basement area um I don't think I have anything else thank you thank you Mr chairman um Mitch just a couple questions so steep slope wise you provided calculations but on your plan but your prior testimony was there's no plus 30 slopes correct slot right so certainly no disturbance then correct critical yep okay and did I understand correctly that you're going to revise your plan to provide the updated calculations showing how you arrived at the F and the law coverage we will do that no problem yep and then um from a drainage perspective I agree that this is a minor project but I also note because we're in some of those Upland steep slope areas and you heard the Chairman's concern about replacing some trees to be removed I can't help but think there's an opportunity to manage some of the runoff from the home and the new driveway extension is that something your client would be willing to look into and work with engineering to address certainly by way of a drywall or rain Garden Etc yeah some some version of that no problem we can work with you on that very good thank thank you that's all I have Mr thank you Bill uh members of the public questions on Mr artman's testimony engineering testimony all right see none your next witness Mr suan hello again gladly uh I'm uh Michael J Pano licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey originally licensed in 1984 practicing at the municipal level uh ever since um I have made a couple of appearances before this board uh maybe some of you recognize me um and no challenge to my license ever it remains in good standing I repres presented half a dozen Northern New Jersey boards as board planner but now in this era of my career I'm pretty much appearing exclusively as a expert planning witness uh on these matters welcome back it's good to see you and we accept you as an expert in planning thank you uh will you still be so pleased if I hand out an exhibit please okay just going to extend my testimony a little bit but I think it provides uh some meaningful um Insight if you wanted to Sprint we wouldn't pull that against A2 I I have one already sure so do you want the 5H hour version or the 10hour version just a little planning humor very little um I know time is is precious here so on sheet one of A2 uh it's a representation of the subject property uh similar to the exhibit um you just saw but showing the subject property in yellow and uh it illustrates to me that the main uh takeaway is that this is a very unusual lot uh unusual in its configuration uh but it does show that it uh has a connection with Washington Valley Road at its very southern end the next sheet on A2 uh simply verifies the zoning District that this site is fully within the R50 District not even close to another zoning District sheet three is an aerial image um that depicts the uh the development pattern that's on the ground today and shown on uh the site in um a rectangular shape approximated this is not it's a scale uh approximately showing where the proposed new dwelling would lie and before we leave this page I wanted to point out that you can see literally see the the pavement of a Sante Lane going along uh what would be uh the front yard of the the proposed dwelling um and then the uh the it continues on to other dwellings that are at the back of of the the nice uh open lawn areas uh to the west or left and um you can also see the relative position of number six which is to the right uh that also uses a STI Lane uh for Access now coming to sheet four uh of A2 are series of ground photos taken by myself and um very recently in fact and image one in the upper left shows uh from at the the driveway to the left of the site to the west of the site uh intersects with a Santi Lane I'm standing right there at the end of that driveway in front of number 14 to uh take this image of those now mature evergreen trees that were uh part of the 2013 approval uh that were discussed earlier uh in the upper right is image two uh my car is parked uh on the shoulder of a Sante Lane that segment that goes directly in front of the subject property um clearly uh three or four vehicles could fit side by side in uh that well preserved uh opening of vegetation yes the traveled way the the cart way width itself is smaller but as was testified to earlier plenty of room for maneuvering to um have two vehicles pass each other uh safely and efficiently and image three uh is more of a closeup from the other direction uh standing generally in front of where the the proposed driveway off of a Sante Lane to the subject home uh would be located uh again showing ample with uh for passage of of vehicles of all kinds the segment of Asanti Lane that joins um with Washington Valley Road is shown in image four in the lower right uh uh photograph this is a little bit wider than the other uh segment that I showed in the other photos so plenty of room uh for maneuvering visibility passage uh in two directions finally uh on sheet five of 82 in the upper left image five shows the actual intersection of a Sante Lane that's on the right uh sort of where the guard rail that bends points to it um that's a Sante Lane image number six shows the existing segment of aanti Lane that goes to number six um assanti Lane lower left image 7 we see number 14 and number 18 aanti lane and then uh image 8 is a view of that southern segment of aanti Lane that goes down to Washington Valley through the the growth uh to the nursery school that abuts uh the property on the East so that provides uh the setting for me I did touch base with the replicable zoning regulations master plan for the community reviewed the application materials um with my client's team and U made a finding that the proposed a lot with uh deficiency that is both existing and proposed at the same Dimension 79.4 ft where 165 ft is required uh can be granted uh pursuant to both uh type c tests the C1 test of hardship and the C2 uh evaluation under the the weighing analysis where benefits need to outweigh the detriments only one test needs to be demonstrated but in this particular case both are satisfied if you will bear with me I will be concluding right after I tell you uh the positive and negative criteria under each test um the lot uh is exceptionally narrow at the setback line from Washington Valley Road the the true approved Road Frontage and on the basis of that and exceptionally by reason of exceptional narrowness shallow or shape of a specific piece of property a C1 variance can be granted uh that's meeting the positive criteria for hardship U part the I will come to the negative criteria for both of them in just a moment moving on to the C2 analysis it meets the five-part weighing analysis that's a requirement under the statute and case law we have a specific piece of property that's the first part to determine it's very unusual very irregular very oversized in in my evaluation um second part is to determine the public benefits that might ACR to the granting of the relief this is part of an overall beneficial project that has certain public benefits um purpose a is of the municipal land use law would be Advanced because this promotes the general welfare with a fairly low density single family use it is a permitted use and permitted uses implicitly Advance the general welfare under the zoning scheme uh in the state of New Jersey uh purpose B to protect from flood fire and panic is also Advanced the site uh is readily accessed by emergency response equipment and has room for two-way traffic that will be maintained under a formal agreement uh purpose I is also Advanced uh which is to promote a desirable visual environment this project will add a nice new home that will fill a visual void in this particular neighborhood as to public detriment um I see no detriment of a substantial nature if any at all um this uh project would effectively restore the lot to a productive state with an attractive and complimentary new home that will upgrade the area with ample spacing around the new home the the property has compliant yards coverage F Etc as you heard um and these features provide no evidence of crowding reduction of light air or open space uh the width along aanti Lane is conforming uh as to as if that was the frontage so we we have more of a technical deficiency than anything else given the the fact that aanti lane is adequate it has been functioning uh adequately to serve uh these six properties for quite some time now and will continue to do so in my opinion um with that lot width along a Santi Lane U being what it is in other words meeting the expectation under the ordinance there's no um resulting undesirable visual effects of approving a home on a lot that's too narrow because the lot really is literally wide enough at the H site uh along aan Lane um the adequate cartway width to facilitate two-way traffic um and supported by sufficient easements and a maintenance agreement to keep it that way um further mitigate any concern of detriment as to the Zone plan impact um I see no impairment to the Zone plan or zoning or let alone any that would do so in a substantial manner the project enables a permitted use to return to this lot The Zone plan anticipates infill development in the R50 Zone with permitted uses we are doing that all the zoning requirements besides width are fully met or exceeded so uh the balancing part of that C2 analysis now is uh coming to a close is that the benefits of granting the relief will substantially outweigh way in my opinion any detriments a home here will be clearly a better planning alternative to a vacant lot in this appealing residential Enclave I submit to you respectfully approval is warranted thank you thank you Mr pasano you're most welcome board questions see none uh board professionals I have um a question that may or may not pertain to the to the planner testimony um our our new zoning officer who has a very keen eye and you'll um hear why uh just just pointed out something about the roadway and I know that's been a topic of conversation as part of this because it is a little bit of a unique Factor but there was um like I said this might not be for this witness but I thought I'd bring it up because I don't have any questions um for him particularly but the paragraph four on page four of the original resolution from 2013 had included that there was an encroachment on lot 46 so the property that's not that does gain access from Asante Lane to the direct um West I guess that is yeah to the direct west of the road there's an encroachment that's shown on the corner the northeast corner of their property um and and that last approval had basically said that that encroachment would be eliminated um it's hard to tell and the planner's exhibit was helpful in that it somewhat showed that it that it was outside of that property line but it's hard to tell from the angle if that is just giving if the vantage point is just giving the benefit to that I would just like to hear if that was if that roadway was ever revised to remove the encroachment Mr chairman Mitch ardman back to the mic here so on our exhibit the the P1 the sheet and exhibit A1 I believe that's pointing on the uh the corner as you turn here the South West corner there is a sliver that goes outside of the easan agreement but there is a what was then a proposed access in that that included that little sliver there so it was cleaned up not by moving the road but by providing that access easement but that was a good point okay I I wasn't from reading the access agreement it didn't seem like that was direct directly addressed and so I'm not I'm not certain if there were two different things going on because the that same condition also included the recordable form of easement for all of those use and that property does use a Sante Lane to gain access to lot 46 so I just I'm not the next line after that says it says eliminate the encroachment doesn't say eliminate the encroachment via easement that just says eliminate the encroachment so um I'm just curious if that was if it wasn't revised that's fine it just you know I'd like to clear that up as part of this application yeah let me just grab a copy of my for I'm sorry Katherine which um lot which lot were you concerned about 46 so 46 is out is to the west of a Sante Lane and has Frontage on Washington Valley so it sounds like it's resolved though yeah I think that's at time as you heard from Mr EG talk the conditions were satisfied of the ol Dem Katherine it sounds like you just want to make sure that the February 26 2013 resolution that all conditions have been agreed upon know it was testified to so I I it didn't match with what's on the plan so I just wanted to make sure and otherwise we should just clarify that via any action that's taken tonight yeah we see that uh as Mr armman said yeah that was addressed by easement um also granting lot 46 the use of a Sante Lane and um allowing that little sliver right in here to cross and that easement has been filed with the county clerk yes Mr chairman we have a copy of it in the package and I can just point to paragraph one it's the third thir paragraph and paragraph one refers to exhibit B says is a meets and Bounds description of a small portion of lot 46 which is 678 squ ft presently being used by the grantees as part of a Sante Lane so that's where it's included in the in the easement R right for all the Lots using it okay all right thank you Mr Burr uh no questions Mr chairman all right thank you uh members of the public questions on planning testimony all right seeing none Mr suvin could you just real quick um put on the record the September 26 2024 County of Somerset planning board because they they did reference they didn't have any problems with the application but they said as the site plan is associated with one single family resident and the plan shows that no changes to the existing shared access point on Washington Valley Road CR 620 please be advised that the project does not require County Action approval should the township requ any changes that affect the county right away in the future the plan should be resubmitted we we satisfied that we're not changing any of the egress or Ingress therefore the county wouldn't have any uh reason to be Ren noticed agreed okay thank you if you want to wrap up Mr Sullivan yeah that concludes our uh witness presentation uh we do feel that the application is pretty straightforward obviously it's a proposing an appropriate use of this lot single family residential and a single family residential district um the applicant does face practical hardships uh essentially from the the rather unusual shape of the lot and our one variance is actually the lot width of the lot when it uh meets Washington Valley Road um but as we mentioned earlier when you come up to where the actual home is you can see we have plenty of lot width uh the house fits well into the lot um and it's a a lot that's uh three or four times larger than what's required by the ordinance um so there's certainly the hardship you did hear Mr pesano describ the C2 criteria um I tend to agree with them I think the benefits clearly outweigh any detriment and quite frankly I I don't see any detriment here so without repeating all of it uh for those reasons we would ask that you consider granting the application all right thank you very much Mr Sullivan at this point we're going to open up to members of the public that would like to speak for or against this application now is your time to approach all right seeing none Rich want you take us through stipulations sure if there's a consideration for an approval there were some conditions we spoke about and that would be if there was any tree removal on the lot for the construction of the home those trees would be uh replaced in kind uh with respect to drainage the applicant will modify the storm water drainage system to the satisfaction of the the township engineer um and provide updated F calculations that was all I had all right Mr svin if you're good with that we're going to open up Del liberations yes all right very good we agreed to those conditions all right let's start down to Mr gabbit how are you sir good evening it help if I turn the microphone on um yeah this is a weird shaped lot um but to me it seems that there's no debt um downside really to this as far as public goods so I would be inclined to support all right thank you Mr kak I would agree it's it's a nice compliment to the neighborhood you're going to have a new structure there you also have the opportunity here to fill in the missing piece and clean up that lot which is definitely going to benefit the entire neighborhood so I think it'd be a great addition and i would support it Mr Cat I have no concerns and we'll support the application thank you Mr widley uh Mr S as usual it's always nice seeing you ni presentation your application I want to carbon copy what Jim just said I'm fully in support and again Mr Sullivan you do a great job as always and great Witnesses thank you very much for being so prepared Mrs [Music] Amin in the 2013 they had a approval to build a house right so basing that I'm I'm in the favor of approving I would assume you voted on this in 2013 right with Mr Sweeny yes you were on the board in 2013 right great thank you Mr swing speaking of the 2013 board I hold in high regard their decision to approve a similar building in the same site so I think we ought to do the same thing thank you perfect Mr Presa I concur I see any issues I support it Mr vessia yeah I have no issues with the application I think the bill you know where the house is cited on very proper location um Huge lot you know modest home all for it I I too respect and admire the 2013 zoning board and uh I'm going to look to the board for a motion to approve oh you were here too right I was here too yeah um I move that we uh approve it any seconds please second Mr Sweeney as the second yes uh yes yes yes yes yes yes thank very much thank you Mr suvan have a good evening all right next up we have solar landscape LLC three and five ferin Avenue good evening good evening for the record I'm Donna Jennings from the law firm of Wen Goldman and Spitzer on behalf of the applicant as the board is aware the applicant is here this evening seeking minor site plan approval a use variance and some bulk Varian to install roof Community solar panels on the two existing Warehouse building with Associated ground mounted equipment on property located at 3 and five Fern Avenue and identified as block 303 lot 8.01 on the Township's tax maps property is approximately 20.2 acres and is located in the manufacturing M2 Zone the applicant proposes to install solar panels in connection with Community solar energy program the state first launched the program as a poly program in 20 18 and the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities voted last year to officially establish a permanent program individuals and businesses are now able to greatly benefit from solar energy systems without needing to install solar panels on their own property instead solar energy is generated offsite for use by members of the program members receive several benefits including paying a reduced Energy bill by utilizing clean and renewable energy resources in importantly these Community Solar Products are required to serve a majority of low and moderate income families the applicant has been actively involved with the community solar program for several years and continues to install solar energy systems in municipalities across the state in addition the applicant requires a use variance because solar energy systems that sell power as part of the community solar program are not permitted in the M2 Zone the record will show that the applicant satisfies both the positive and negative criteria as the applicants planner will testify solar systems are inherently beneficial satisfying the positive criteria is a matter of Law and there's really no negative impact because you do allow rooftop solar uh to power the actual building it's on you just don't allow it to be a community solar so there would be no real detriment because I don't think anybody driving by that would see the rooftop panels would know the difference as to who is actually receiving the energy at the end of the day um with respect to a couple of the bulk variances they're generally assumed in the use variance Grant under a case called price V hedi which our planner will also describe uh with that really I would like to just uh indicate that we're going to have two witnesses Kevin Shelly who is the site engineer and our professional planner Andrew Jano who will support the application and I believe that we're in receipt of one report which is a joint report by your planner and engineer dated December 3rd 2024 so with that I'd like to call my first witness and have them sworn in great let's swear in everybody come on up Andrew and Kevin and Austin you might as well get sworn into in case there's any questions they can't answer we have also a representative solar with us so he can answer any questions if the other two can would you all Raise Your Right hands please do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God and just my left to right if everyone just for the record State your names please thank you everyone okay with that we'd like to start with Kevin Shelly one second if you could Mr Shelly just for the benefit of the board please give your background and qualifications sure I am a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey since 2012 my is current standing I testified in front of various boards across state but have not had the previous pleasure of testifying and your license is currently valid today correct would the board accept his qualifications as an engineer absolutely thank you um if you could cin if you hold on one second Mrs Z what is your uh specialty in engineering are you mechanical electrical civil I practice civil civil engineering yes you you're a licensed professional engineer yes so as a professional engineer I'm asking you the question what exactly is your background you electrical engineer mechanical engineer because you know this with these panels and all that I need to ask questions about that civil so you are mechanical electrical I a civil engineer civil okay thank you if you could U Mr Shelly um just walk us through the existing site conditions and the applicants proposal and if you're going to rely on any exhibits would you please mark them into evidence um I prepared an aerial exhibit of the property uh we can enter as exhibit A1 yeah that would be A1 thank you aial exhibit of the prop property dated uh today December 10th 2024 it's an AAL image um and it has the solar panels up on the roof of the two buildings on the property um just for visual representation it also shows some of the gr mounted equipment that will be needed for the property uh but again the the subject property um has two existing warehouses on it both of them operate tenants that are in the warehousing and distribution uh business the applicant proposes to install solar panels on the roof of both buildings there will be some ground mounted equipment as part of each system each building will have a separate operating system there'll be a new utility pole which is a riser Pole to bring power the street each will have a Transformer gear CT cabinet inverters all on the ground all on the ground adjacent to the building both sets of equipment are located in thewest corner of building again that is the only other sement of those systems again are separate because each building has its own system uh in the rear of the property you can see sou River Property does have some environmental constraints mostly all associated with River Hazard area or W locations Loc when you say they're not in any flood zone there was a reference in some of the materials to a uh flood zone map that was dated some time ago my understanding is there are new maps and I wondered if you included the new maps in your um engineering study and therefore the location of the on ground um equipment necessary to manage the solar power the equipment is located in areas that are not impacted Cent the former Maps it's not impacted okay because I only saw reference to the older maps in the materials that I was looking through I may have missed it that's why I'm asking which of the maps you based your um site selection for the above ground equipment on because I mean you know just for practical purposes the river is right there um it floods all the time just when a heavy rain expected to flood tomorrow but I'm curious to know how those that equipment is going to stay dry again I don't have this specific map or the date of the map any add most recent iterations of flood mapping again the areas that are not depicted as part of the floodway we could provide additional information to your for professionals about the maps or any recent additions to Maps but all the flood mapping that we've reviewed uh this equipment is located in an area that is not impact and the building itself do both buildings do they flood uh flooding comes up to the back of the buildings I am not sure what impact any fing has on the inside of these structures um again all of our equipment solar panels are up on top of the building the solar panels are not impacted by anying okay and the the applicant in this case does not own these buildings they're Contracting with the building owners to build this uh for-profit business that will be part of the community solar energy program therefore U generating electricity that they would essentially sell for PR correct they lease the rooftops and they in the business to make some money so yes so they're not being the building owner they're they're also I guess unaware of any flooding that may have taken place in the buildings it would undermine the structural Integrity of the building or in any way threaten the solar panels from collapse should severe flooding take place the the applicant does a extensive investigation uh structural components of the building to one ensure that the building can successfully um house the panels on the roof part of that is a structural investigation across the entire building so if any signs of building deterioration or anything like that uh were observed they probably would not be pursuing this application just due to the it does not make sense to put pels on top of a building that would be risk for for doing that so you're you're saying that not not in your opinion but in the opinion of the applicant they've done a structural examination of the building and they're satisfied that their panels would be installed on what I'm going to call a safe building and that would not be threatened by the flooding which might undermine the building correct I think that's accurate okay thank you any batteries on site I not aware batteries I think all energy generat will be sold to the grid and real time there'll be no storage of any any energy at all and if there was to be any battery or any storage facilities added it would have to come back to this board thank you Mr Shelly could you point out on on your diagram there where the ground mounted equipment is or will be the equipment so I'll start over on the building on the right which is three findern um there's a utility Pole located right at the overhead power lines here here this uh small square area which is shown on the site plans is a Transformer and then there is a cluster of equipment located just along the western side of the building in this northwest corner that has all the other equipment inverter switch panels cabinet and then forer you have theity Pole located up at Frontage Transformer on the ground you have thank you uh I have question what is the KW rating of uh let's say on this building the total kilowatt rating of the panels combined and on the other building how how how much is it because I didn't find anything in the submission here so each building has uh or there's a total of 3,419 mod on the buildings that would generate approximately 1.2 million Katt hours which is enough to power about ohms annually what will be generated by 1.2 megawatt so so uh how many megawatts you said 1.2 million kilowatt hours okay 1.2 that's good so um that's a lot of energy yeah part of the power will be used by the building themselves right and then the rest of it goes into the system the building itself would be any other business again as Miss Jenning said that the this community solar program provides solar to Residents businesses within virgin and surrounding communities for those that do not have the ability to do um P the solar generated at this project this owner of the buildings would answer the program similar to any other resident of the township could enter the program to receive their electric is it's noted to service the proposed buildings it is designed to be as part of the community solar that's why we need the use variance if it was powering the building we would not need a use variance because your ordinance allows solar rooftops to power the actual building it doesn't allow you to transfer the power to others MH what you're saying is that extra power goes out to the yep yeah yeah that's exactly how it's done for all solar systems uh the question the next question I have you don't uh have any batteries to hold that power for using it during the night or any of that kind of a thing right there's no back battery system batteries I don't think so it's very expensive okay that's all I have I I have a question um for the new equipment being added to each building what would be the square footage for just the new equipment on the ground added to the added prob Transformer gets mounted on a concrete P the other equipment are on racks essentially um not all of them have pads or create real impervious area so it's really only very small for 20 Acre Site it wouldn't anything in terms of any add CES or so wait at the most how much did you say I think each one maybe is 200 square feet for each building so 400 total 400 okay thank you as it EXs solar panels are requ toet all reations ACC that's why you designed to meet alled fir we have not seen anything from the Fire official building has separate tenants um I believe three finder is occupied by quantics by is wind Global Logistics this Jennings would your applicant be able to get a letter for the board from the fire company that would yeah I mean I usually most towns disseminate it to all their different departments and we get a review letter from those different so they had no comment yeah one of the one of the comments in the joint report was to obtain confirmation from the fire chief that all the fire codes are complied with and it's a safe design would you you agree if that's a condition of approval to obtain that letter absolutely yeah obviously we' want the fire department sign off on it yeah Mr Shell is there anything inherent in your design here that would be any different than if this energy was going to be used by those warehouses on site uh no I mean maybe some of the equipment would be different uh on the ground or maybe there could be something of batteries there to store power that they would generate for their own use okay um you would probably only have a small portion of the roof occupied by the panels which would just be enough for them what they need to generate power for their facility so this um that's really the only difference is probably the number of panels but they each require their own equipment electric services from the street um they wouldn't need the distribution boxes essentially is what you're saying but there could be different things that would have to get swapped out but it's really a very similar type of setup but it's your testimony that this is a larger array of of solar panels because they are looking to distribute the energy publicly correct so the the number of panels on the roofs would be would generate more power than two warehouses need like we said it's enough to power 150 homes for a whole year so that's more power than you know existing warehouses would be required uh so but we typically end up having uh projects in Community solar that are on all sorts of different types of buildings warehouses some of those warehouses already have some solar on the roofs and this program comes in and fills in the rest of the roof area um or there's ones that have nothing on the roofs and we come in and occupi the entire roof area to generate as much power as we can to put back into the system thank you I think one thing interesting about your ordinance is if it was just the warehouse powering itself and they actually generated extra power they're allowed to throw into the that was basically my question they could do this on their own the fact that we put a name plate on a community solar it actually has triggered this variance yeah exactly this happens in a lot of municipalities just the language of the ordinances aren't specific as to beinged and we end up coming yeah it's a little late for the 2024 recommendations to our Council but I think this is something that we should bring up maybe to our councilmen to look at our our our local ordinance because you know this is something they could have done on their with the savings of significance that they wouldn't have had to be here they wanted to just do this and we change some semantics and essentially this is a non- zoning board project It's Curious our our section on renewable energy is quite detailed but dated probably um but I have to imagine and this is just my opinion um that it was probably written it's basically separates out rooftop solar especially in non residential zones as a either principal or accessory use so it considers an accessory use when it is for the building itself with intermittent exchange back to the grid when there is a surplus but not not not designed for the irony of this is you know you to think of I trade electricity for a living it think of it as a bathtub and we're filling up the bathtub with electricity and then people are are taking from the bathtub the irony is the warehouse will probably be the primary user of this energy yes well yes the I think what the distinction is in the ordinance really is accessory is meant to design to the needs of the building whereas principle is considered basically design overdesigning and probably when the ordinance was written solar panel technology was different require look different um you know required higher higher structures and things like that the energy density is is changing from these panels you know obviously it's much higher we can get a megawatt off of you know two rooftops that's incredible yes I think it's just something in the back of our mind as we go into 25 to work with the coun I agree I think that there's probably um like I said I think that it was it considered a principle use because of how many panels it involved so the design of it but it has changed it's evolved solar panels have evolved so I think ultimately the recommendation will be to open it up probably to figure out how to because it's the same look as if it was going no one would know it's an invisible use really as far as it going back to the grid but then putting some design standards in as a protection Mr Jen you represent Community solar on many projects or this this project oh many projects I've done for solar L this is something if our council members had questions they could come to you and you would be sure and and I think that they would love to see you change the ordinance because I believe they have other sites that they're looking to develop here in this particular town there will be no more warehouses I assure you anyway Building self storage facilities malls gotcha all right thank you very much any other board question Mr Fresco so so want me get a clarification because we keep using the word Community Sol but but this is an LLC so who's solar landscape LLC solar landscape is a company that will install the panels on the roof and they are the ones who are applying for the community solar program through the seity which offers again the the energy is put into the community solar program residents of this Township as well as surrounding townships can enter into that program to receive discounted rates on their they're essentially solar Farmers say that's a good solar farmers and they're looking for crops to to put these solar panels on so I think that you know we as much as we want to say hey let's welcome them these are serious this is a massive project how many of these projects do you have in New Jersey currently probably 50 50 how many you have in summer County um that I don't know okay any any concentration in the state would you say I mean you have some in the in the neighborhood I mean something that you can say hey we did this over here or something we might not lands botom middle all around so they spread out really the idea is take program municipality there's a radius around there those part of it and the goal is to have coverage across the whole state to provide everybody part of municipalities have more programs or more opportunity it's from what our experien is from working with them spread out all over yeah like Thursday night we're in Vorhees and I'm going to be in piscat away we've done Newark we've done Cherry Hill we're down in yes okay so you gonna speak on behalf of solar solar landscape I mean because we're obviously we have to confirm that these guys are if some nothing goes wrong right it's on them they the ones that are going to service this they're the ones Google them I think they're the largest solar provider in the State team how long will it take to do this they want to be operational by June all right great thank you could you could you describe the orientation of the panels I mean the site is oriented South are they going to be essentially laying flat on the roof are they going to be angled toward the southeast and if whatever the positioning is does it do we run the risk of it creating any kind of visual interference with traffic on the adjacent roads so yeah the panels lay flat on the roofs there's pretty much like a six inch projection off the top of the roof they're configured in a manner to be parallel with the building lines to maximize number of panels so again there's about a six projection over the top of the roof uh with the height of the existing buildings at 25 and a half 26 feet above the ground you're not going to see the panels uh from the adjacent street especially with proximity of the buildings to street they're not going to be they're not going to be visible there's no issues with the requirements in the town I'm mostly concerned with fer and and Main Street as it runs into Manville because you have the dividing line there um so if you're coming from either direction I want to make sure that those panels aren't angled in such a way as to in any way create a glare or visual impairment from the adjacent roadways and FAA non glare determination you have to get that okay right thank you you had mentioned that uh the roofs are being leased from the owners of the warehouse how long are are those leases for do you know okay um and should the owner of the warehouse sell at any point in there is it automatically transferred to the new owner Okay Kevin do you just want to touch on the um bulk variances with respect to the accessory structures yes so there's um I mean just in terms of the bulk variances on the property there's existing nonconforming conditions minimum lot with uh 3698 ft is existing with 500 required existing nonconforming front yard setback 29.5 ft or 150 ft is required existing non-conforming condition for the rear yard setback of .t whereas 100t is required again these are all existing non-conforming conditions uh the proposed solar panels and Grand man equipment don't have any on any of those existing nonconforming conditions um there's no coverage issues Building height issues or any new variances that are created as part of and what about the status of Outside Agency approvals I mentioned the FAA determination what about County we we already have that I believe correct and then psng approval is that the power sourcing and then you had an opportunity to review the U board planners and Engineers review letter yes you have any specific comments that you'd like to address or can we comply I think we could agree to comply there was a couple items in here that they ask for some testimony on which I tried to uh cover here but uh if there's anything else that need further clarification no we're going to assume anything that you have read here in this planner rewend that you you're going to accept unless you're going to State it right now accept it great all right any other board questions uh board professionals thank you I believe there was testimony earlier you said that none of the ground mounted equipment was located within the flood plane that within the floodway within the FL the flood way there are there's at least one structure on the western side of the property the stepup Transformer um that's owned by the utility that's in a hundredy year flood plane according to the to the present flood um National flood Hazard layer um is there I know that that some concerns were raised by the by the board members about that um is there is that have to be elevated at all um the Transformers have to be I mean essentially all the the Riser polls and the Transformers were installed per P standards and requirements um they really have as those they' they've not indicated that anything needs to get raised for that is that something that the DP would would Aline on um as far as you know development within a flood within flood Hazard area I specifically for Transformers I I'd have to review that but I imag I know there's perit by rules for different utility infrastructure within uh flood zones uh we' review that but again if it did re if any equipment did require a d approval uh it would be required to be contained or it would or worked out with PSG to relocate it so that no per okay I I think that the the board has some perview here I mean electricity and and water don't don't mix very well obviously PSC is going to do what's in the best interest of the utility here to not Put It In Harm's Way um but I I I think that probably as part of if this is approved part of resolution compliance would be to see some either uh letter from tngg assuring that it's going to be typically pscg gives these types of assurances because it's ultimately going to be their problem it's going to create an imbalance on their system if there's a trip from the water um is that something Miss Jennings that you could get from psng yeah I mean I know we have some letters from pscg approving the plans and charging quite substantial fees for the privilege of connecting so we do have those we can submit the p&j I mean they basically dictate you can't really tell them where you're putting the Transformers or the polls um we've run into this problem before in other towns so PS is going to going to select and they're going to be the the oversight on this project for their location of their poles and right so they set the poles we the power goes down the poles set the Transformer Pad they set the Transformer and then after the Transformer it's you privately owned secondary but it's it's they own the poles they own the Transformers the only thing I I just want to make sure that if pscg doesn't know about flood planes or or think about the way it's a pad-mounted Transformer so my only that's my only indication here is that we probably need some sign off about it being in a flood Hazard area is that a letter I don't disagree get I don't want to require something you're going to get a specific letter like that um you can we'll have we have a letter here's the situation if if we don't get this letter theoretically if something were to happen and was to cause a blackout in the area did the zoning board approve something that that theoretically caused damage it wouldn't cause a blackout in the area would W none of us work for PG I have worked for psng their design is pretty incredible um and not in a good way we we do need something that is going to show that this board did not approve something that is inherently dangerous even though it is indeed inherently beneficial do you follow my my thinking here I'm just trying to figure out what it would be that we would be get trying to get either either NJ EP letter A no interest that they don't have if they don't have a problem with it being in flood has area that's fine too just somebody signing off saying something that that that removes the any Town liability correct correct I think that's probably the best move um and everything else it seems like it's just outside of it on the Eastern more most side the Transformers are all outside of it so that's not a problem but I just wanted to focus on that um I think I think think over the course of the board asking questions they've asked a lot of the same questions that I had so I I don't think I have anything further but I will reiterate that I do believe the the the recommendation or uh suggestion raised in the report about the fire chief signing off in these plans is is crucial it sounds like there was a review he just had no comment maybe we can just get a letter from him that says he has no comment okay perfect I mostly say that because I want to make sure that the perimeter access to the roof is good that they can move if they do need to get on access to the roof that they can navigate between the panels I just want to I want to make sure that the fire chief is well well aware of the design well just looking at 126 335 it does talk about and that's our local ordinance it does talk about things like you know locking mechanisms on the Transformer panels all those things I assume because it's in the letter you're you're okay with complying with correct okay and that's all I have all right thank you very much Mr bur oh I I I just had a quick question and I don't know who actually would be the right person to answer do we know what the level is of the flood plane that to make it out of the flood plane like do we know what the difference would be rephrase that sorry um to to mount the equipment properly you know we believe it's in the 100-year flood plane how much higher does it have to be to be out of the 100-year flp plane I think the EP would probably say what the finished floor elevation would have to be for it um that's why we probably want to get their opinion okay they're in the hundred-year flood plane so question do are you required to obtain d P permits or approvals for this project we didn't think we needed but we we'll try to get this letter through either D or P you know again I don't want to require something that they can't get I think you can get the PSC and G ladder one way or the other I'm not sure the the utility would either be covered under a d per permit by rule and if that's the case and we show that we meet all the conditions then there is be from this board to obtain other agency approvals of course right and that that's actually what I was going to suggest is let's get some more information on whether or not this qualifies as a DP permit by rule because then it doesn't need to be submitted formally to DP it's it's almost like a self-certification and I think the applicant's engineer can provide that information because it is it's it's a little bit deceiving on the plan because I think some of the FEMA Flood information was superimposed but it does show that there's ground mounted equipment in some of those areas now they may not be a formal flood Hazard area or repairing Zone that D regulates so there's a little bit of uncertainty there so I think the applicant would be well served and I'm hearing I'm curious what you know jcpnl serves where I live down a Point Pleasant part of the year you know they have a lot of requirements but these things all are getting lifted now and those FEMA rules of all changed I I would feel better PS acknowledging this D situation and and just letting us know that we're in a safe place on these mounts we'll pull some more information on that effort and and get more over you guys okay now Mr chairman you you just stole my question but I just want to reiterate or I just want to ask it again so in cathine in my memo we do copy through a few different sections of our existing solar energy ordinance am I correct that you are in compliance with all of the different provisions of the Township's ordinance on page four and I guess seven six into seven is there is there anything in the the existing ordinance that that you will not comply with as a result of this project or no no we uh we we reviewed these and we didn't see anything he that stands out as uh problematic for the project okay and and is is there any signage that is being proposed of any kind um on the ground or anywhere around that would be visible to the public no no signage nothing that says solar landscape or Community solar okay just whatever sckers or notices on the equip itself no actual signage and then in terms of Maintenance I had understood that there will be a maintenance plan that's um agreed to between the owner of the buildings and Community solar and Community solar is solely responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the panels solar landscape solar landscape yes yeah they have a maintenance plan for every project of theirs that establishes regular and routine meeting we can give you a copy of that is that I was just GNA ask is that something that you provide to the board as a condition this a standard that's all I had thanks Mr chairman good all right thank you uh members of the public questions on engineering all right see none back to you sure I wasn't going to call Austin but I think that some of the board me you want to you're good unless the other board members I feel satisfied if they have that many jobs I just want to make sure it's a reputable company and they have a history of doing these successfully we can Miss Jenny we can query the board does anyone have questions for the solar entity the LLC that's going to be in charge of construction SL maintenance decommissioning okay sure let's call him up and did we swear him in did okay if you just awesome for the record just uh indicate your background and affiliation and start with your name sorry uh Austin Corso again with solar landscape uh I have a degree in mechanical engineering from before we get to that would you spell your last name please or so c o r s o thank you uh I come from a background of mechanical engineering got my degree from NGIT in 2018 since then I've been in the solar energy uh or the solar industry uh since then uh so about six years under my belt at solar landscape specifically been here for a bit over a year now and manage all the permits that go through as well as the engineering ensuring that things go in and time what's your title there at solar landscape preconstruction manager pre construction manager got it and you're responsible for this particular project correct Mr board member has some specific questions with respect to solar landscape LLC have they been doing the community solar exclusively as their business model or had they done other projects previously um to in being involved in the community solar program we've done other projects that are not Community solar however since the program has been initiated in New Jersey since 2019 uh we have been doing projects um in New Jersey under this community solar program thank you and as I said earlier I I believe the LLC is a for-profit entity and that is part of your business model yes absolutely okay great and with respect to the solar panels themselves your experience with installing them the maintenance of them and the longevity of them how would you generally describe that and more specifically describe this application I would say that generally speaking the installation of these solar panels is like the typical solar installation that we do they have a industry standard shelf life of about 20 years as per our lease um there is a decommissioning plan after that fact um when uh the lease is up or we have the option to extend it if needed and with respect ECT to the equipment you're using now is this something new or something you've used previously in other applications we've used all this equipment previously and your experience with this equipment has been that you tell me they require a little maintenance they operate efficiently you had no failures you haven't had to replace them something along those lines no issues with this equipment specifically okay great and if there is an issue how do people know to contact you um for example we're going to have the fire chief do an valuation maybe somebody's driving by and they see something that is irregular how do they know who to contact they just call 911 and hope that we know who you are uh well first and foremost we have extensive monitoring systems on these projects and these panels specifically um there if there is so much as uh to be um snow over the modules we are aware of it uh so there's extensive monitoring systems you're going to see bird poop weren't you cuz that's the problem right sorry you were going to say bird poop on a panel yeah it'll it'll catch that too um in addition when we are submitting these plans we obviously need to get building electric and fire permits so we are submitting all of our permits to the fire chiefs they have that review um the best way effectively would be I I assume if there's something detrimental that somebody is noticing to call 911 okay great thank you as part of your agreement with Community solar Do you have a a a a contracted value of of megawatt hours that are output on the system I think we stated the uh the output uh we do it on a yearly basis well this is going to safety so if you were to be uh deficient in that calculation you have sensors that would pick that up yes so you would have a sensor if there was to be an overload or an inverter collapse or something that was to be catastrophic on the system you would see it real time yes what would happen if that was happening in the middle of the night who would pick up on that uh it would still pick up on that who who monitors that uh we do that internally so does does have that monitoring system who solar landscape okay so you have a 24-hour employee that's in charge of monitoring the output of of your solar system we have an individual that gets real-time monitoring in the event that there is a concern and he is always monitoring now I don't know anything about your company but I do know this is an inherent problem in the Solar industry where we have uh bankruptcies and and lots of changes of ownership if something was to happen in the 20-year lease Horizon who would uh you know be in charge of decommissioning or who would be then in charge of of monitoring if there was a financial failure of your company's solar landscape LLC that's a great question I mean in the in the same instance if there's like a catastrophic issue or like a meteor hits the site right uh effectively the the we will no longer generate power if there is nobody to monitor that system um as it pertains to sale uh so 25 years I've been nothing but an energy Trader so if your company goes bankrupt and these companies do go bankrupt who is in charge of monitoring your systems and catastrophic failure systems the system would go offline so they the right answer is PSC and isn't it wouldn't it be the utility would it would fall back ultimately the utility would be in charge of of monitoring the safety if something was to happen if your company ceased to exist tomorrow wouldn't the utility operator be in charge since we're the owner and the operator if we are out of business then we are no longer it sounds like PSG would come out and pull the switch and they would turn this off it would likely turn off yes if we are no longer in this likely or they would I believe they would turn it off if the company goes out of business and no one is able to monitor your day-to-day safety and your your your catastrophic operations who comes and flips this switch who who ultimately will turn this off from the grid I don't know specifically I would imagine it would just shut down is there something in any kind of agreement with pcng I think you mentioned before that there was some kind of documentation with pcng that they accept this energy is there anything about what the Chairman's asking about in that any Clauses about I I wouldn't know off the top of my head but I can I can find that information out for you guys what would we call that an operations letter that on on a safety basis what would happen if this company ceased to be monitored we'd either like if it's not part of their agreements with psng we'd like some sort of letter I think to the to answer the question you're getting at well and ultimately who would decommission this at the 20-year life is is a reasonable life and again solar landscape is not in business who's in charge of these things who who ultimately decommissions it to find I don't know the answer Community solar is a nonprofit it sounds like it's not a nonprofit it's a for-profit company absolutely but it's Guided by New Jersey BP so ultimately there would be you have to get the the licensing from BPU yeah you you just can't go and do community solar because you want to do community Sol your project has to meet certain criteria for the BPU to say okay go go ahead and get it and guys you got to go and get it by certain date so we have the right to do it but we have to get this up and installed I think by June 1st of 2025 yes in order for it to be accepted into the program Community solar then is not a state agency you said it's an independent entity that is also for for profit or did I misunderstand landcape is the entity Community is just the name of what the state calls is the program right U runs yeah so the the community solar is a state sponsored program to which you've made an application for your solar panel should this board approve it and you mentioned that you would also have to have them built by June whatever the date was there's deadlines as to when you have to have them up and running an operation so along with the chairman I would think you should be able to get some sort of answer and make your any approval contingent on that answer to what happens if um what was it again I got to get it right solar landscape goes out of business or you just cease to be able to generate for whatever reason who shuts it down and it I would agree with the chairman as well it's likely psng but we don't know so we'd like to know there there has to be a master operating agreement between these panels the Transformer and ultimately the PG distribution system power purchase agreement yeah in the power P agreement is it's probably all laid out I just don't do that I'm the land use attorney right right I don't know what's in those and I'm not asking you to submit the power purchase agreement because that is confidential ly but the the language that talks about you know the fallback operator I think that's the the contract language so fall back operations in the event that you cease to exist legally I think is important yeah or who shuts it down either way we can provide that information and if it's not called fallback Operator just who is the operator who is inherently in charge of safety given that you know the entity ceases to exist thank you and we'll stipulate that any other board questions have you had any fires at any of your um properties where solar C Sol Solar City um s landscape I'm sorry uh has panels uh I don't know of any uh there there may have been but none that I'm aware of okay thank you for professionals hey Mr chairman um as the preconstruction manager for the project were you involved in site selection no I I don't get involved in site selection okay then never mind my questions are all going to be about site selection uh but I have no further questions then thank you Mr bur anything one question is there typically a decommissioning plan associated with the end game of these panels yes is that something as well that that could be provided that's in the maintenance plan yeah is that that's that's part part of the maintenance plan essentially once these leases are complete we have to decommission the full plan the only thing that I didn't know is off off chance if there's a a catastrophic event with solar landscape but I can get that all right members of the public questions from Mr Corso all right see none your next witness yep I'd like to wrap it up with our planner Andrew Janu again just your name for the record please Andrew Janu j n i w certain I have a bachelor's and master's degree in civil engineering from the New Jersey Institute of Technology a licensed professional state of New Jersey as well as a member of the American certified planners been a principal in The Firm of Beacon planning and Consulting Services located in for the 25 years currently serving as the planner for the burrow of Carteret in middx County burrow of Freehold in Mammoth County livon Township and Redevelopment planner for Bon and South Amboy and in 2022 Governor Murphy appoints State yes we do thank you thank you I have certainly so in uh in preparation of this evening in addition to reviewing the plans master plan your ordinances as this board knows uh variances are have to be FedEd with a public purpose not just for the benefit of the applicant um that means we look at your master plan your master plan talks about promoting balanced variety of uh recreational public commercial industrial uh uses within the community and promoting uh appearance within the community in this instance we are not changing the layout of the property and any way the builds are ex visual appearance of the property will not be changed by this we also look to the municipal uh land use law for the public purposes that are defining the public benefits and in this case I believe there are two that are specifically on point to this application the first is a encourage Municipal action to guide the approprate use devel of State Donna mentioned use is inherently beneficial and that is absolutely correct new JY legis recog energy sources go into that momentarily another purpose of the ml is and which is to promote the utilization of renewable energy resour we are on point with two public purp with respect to the use variance that's triggered by this application and again that use variant uh is related to ultimately the end user of the energy that's generated had this energy solely for the warehouses are on this property wouldn't be here we wouldn't need the your discussion a little bit by the chairman respect to your ordinances and I believe your ordinances with respect to solar J act 2011 2012 which was before the community solar program came into existed so it's understandable and this is something I run across quite but having said that uh as I had mentioned the New Jersey legislatur found that renewable energy facilities are inherently beneficial the concept of inherently beneficial uses was judicially created to deal with a relatively narrow range of uses and these range such uses as hospitals schools Child Care Centers group homes and specifically wind solar and phot energy sources structure uh these uses are universally recognized the value to the community they fundamentally serve the public good and promote the general welfare as such they satisfy positive criteria within the D1 use variant special need perspective inherently beneficial use weather cases seek of the board of adjust theaa but the inherently prescribed a balance test known as the secet test in order to identify uh what a board should consider in weighing an inherently beneficial use for the community these specifically are one to initially identify the public interest at State here we're dealing with generation renew energy by the community overall not just for one specific use therefore the public will directly benefit the reduction in electrical cost as was mentioned also portion of this energy will be made available to low and moderate income families in community ening the affordability is to identify the detrimental effects that would ensue the grant of the variant we talked this evening about a couple of the concerns of the board with respect to of Transformers those all valid have those Ved as the application really doesn't have a detrimental effect on the community because the ordinance already permits group mounted solar as an accessory going through this if this was solely uh for the benefit of the warehouses this would not require use fact because it's going to a community seller because it'll benefit other people in the community not just the property itself will require this use variance so when we look at the detrimental effects I would say they're negligible because this is something that your ordinance in one way shape or form already anticipates uh third is to determine whether it can reduce any detrimental Effects by opposing reasonable condition we've talked about that we've talked about how we'll deal with the Transformers we'll have the fire officials make sure that they is vetted and this will be vetted through your building department as well through the installation process then finally we have to weigh the positive against the negative criteria again understanding that this will generate energy that will benefit the community at large it'll provide low cost energy to low low income families the roof mounted nature of the project already anticipated within the district will have a minimal visual impa iare have the FAA letter one of the things we have to consider when we look at solar panels solar panels by their very nature absorb light they don't reflect light um there were some cadmium panels that were very early on in the early 2000s that had a reflective coding on them those are no longer manuf don't have to worry or any kind of visual when we look at the positive and negative criteria I think certainly we recognize the benefit of green energy we recognize benefit of renewable energy we recognize the benefit of being able to provide lower cost energy to community we recognize that ordinance already roofed panels as an accessory for the buildings what we're doing here is simply looking to have another resource order uh there are several uh D variances or bulk variances that are required these are generally related to the location ofip inard where they're noted it also about having elevated electrical lines which are not pered in your district and finally permitting more than two accessor structured again each uh each Roof System will it own set of inverters transmission that's why two two essentially two accessories on the rooftop mentioned isms ofan Varan areed within a use Vari Zone doesn't anticipate in this case we can also qualify this on the uh bulk standards under balance whichs about appc land being Advanced the record finally that the benefits of the deviation in mind already configured inms ofc location of the equipment ground mounted predetermined by all those there's nowhere else they can going through theard they'll be within an industrial district as you can is Lely is environment restricted we look at that I think a good application with respect to the negative criteria have to satisfy varant can be grsu imp cover and finally that the variant will not substantially imp the intend Purp again the Zone planit roof mounted panels the difference here is where that energy go I think when we look at this not onlyi aspect in terms of not anticipated but also on the balance appc Varan also ultimately we're all pushing for green energy and resources like this I think this is a good application particular because of where it's located it's located Port questions on the planning testimony would you talk to particular suitability would you address particular suitability of this uses for this site inherently beneficial you don't have to because the positive criteria the D1 is Satisfied by the use being recognized as something that's of benefit to the community on a wholesale basis yeah all the Board needs to look at on this application is really the negative criteria thank you um very quick question do you want to put anything on the record on on a positive benefit from the renewable energy credits that are generated from this I know the state has a lot of programs srex and and and so forth that aside from lowcost energy you'll be actually deriving credits given to them by the state do you want to put anything um that's that's not my pay grade fair I just trying to give you a softball but fair enough uh board professionals I have I have no questions for this witness um but if the board has any questions about the inherently beneficial use and what the threshold is for for your decisions based on that uh I'm happy to answer any questions thank you Mr Burr no questions thank you Mr chairman members of the public questions on planning testimony all right see you none thank you sir than you all right yeah if you want to wrap up and then we'll go through stipulations yeah so like I as we've indicated and stated you know the use itself really other than the fact that we're generating power to other sources would be permitted uh the use in it of itself is inherently beneficial and we really think there's no negative impact and we would respectfully request that the board Grant the relief that we seek subject to all the conditions that we discussed walk those conditions would be um applicant would obtain confirmation from the Fire official that all fire codes are compliant with uh or complied with rather and that the configuration represents a safe design provide a letter from psng that the proposed location of the Transformers is an approved location uh provide a copy of the maintenance plan and the decommissioning plan for the site uh provide proof as to what entity would decommission and secure the site if the applicant terminated business I did this already and that's all I had right thank you we're going to open up deliberations uh Jim if you're ready um actually it's a little interesting to me because um I was approached a couple months a Ago by a different company and I'm in the process actually construction should start in about two or three weeks I'm hoping I'm actually doing on smaller scale in my house so I actually thought the board had terrific questions and the professionals because I had a list of about 25 or 30 questions before I signed off on my deal uh about a month and a half ago so I'm pretty familiar with the process and uh it's pretty straightforward application so I'm in favor of the application all right thank you down to you Mr vesia on um overall I I do agree I think there's a definitely a big large benefit to the community um certainly want to see the Fire Marshall uh okay you know the plan what whatever modification they may have if if any um regarding sort of you know removing the line between you know having the solar panels for your own building versus serving the community you know I look at this as almost like a power plant you know or if you kind of take the analogy of putting a standby generator for your home you know we're not going to put 140 you know standby generators to power Community or put a gas turbide in a building and still call it the same sort of you know occupancy use so um you know I I think this is the technology is great know great thing all for it um it is somewhat of a new technology a lot of our building codes and Fire codes are based upon precedence of you know fires in the past um so I think we should just keep that in mind if we're changing any ordinances this time that this is still new you know we haven't had these for a long period of time where the panels have degraded the equipment has degraded you know debris has sort of built up in these to sort of you know change you know change the ordinance at this time but I am for this application it's away from it's pretty far away from any residential um areas and I'm I'm for thank you you know I think sometimes we have we have businesses come in here and you know they try to give us you know different types of things you know huge monuments on the side of our natural resources so I kind of feel like personally you know had I known that this was a large reputable company you know understand what your model was a little bit about the company you know knowing you know you're friends with the governor and you've got 50 or 60 of these things out there I think going into this maybe you know my Approach would have been different but now that I understand that I think it's a great case that you put on um you know I fully support it um and uh and you know I wish you good luck with it hopefully you meet your deadline Mr Sweeny yeah it's a good application no detrimental impacts uh it's an inherently beneficial use I just don't understand the Township's classification of this as a something that requires use variance but that's another issue I'm in favor of the application this is the me it's a very nice project with the amount of electricity that will be generated through the sun it is really good for the environment and everything else and uh the way I look at it you know the equipment that's sitting on the on the ground is similar to putting a emergency generator and generating power and that kind of things so there's no problem with that so I'm in favor of approving the project thank you I'm in favor as well I think New Jersey is just in an unfortunate situation where we're short energy we've been always been short energy we we mostly buy our our power from Pennsylvania and places far like Niagara Falls and um far aways North Carolina and um things like Ai and new technologies only precipitate our need for more energy um essentially you know no one wants to build a power plant right now in this uncertain time of of energy regulation so I think solar definitely Bridges a gap between regulation and uh and the demand side um I am very very curious to make sure that we have properly situated these Transformers and any ground mounted equipment um I'm I'm I'm looking forward to seeing psg's viewpoint on this and I want to make sure they remove any liability from the township but given that I'm I'm fully in favor and it was a very nice presentation Mr ccat um I feel exactly the same way as Mr chairman has outlined um my biggest concern was the installation of the ground equipment and safety of that um you know with PSC and G oversight I have no concerns so I am I will support the application thank you Mr kak yeah I too agree that this is a project that we should approve I think the inherently beneficial use of solar energy is something that really is driving the approval of the application you had the the planner mentioned that the location of the ground equipment would be subsumed in the use variants we're not concerned about the Aesthetics of that location but rather the safety of that location of the Transformers of the ground equipment and with the stipulation that they if they need to be elevated they would um that they would be elevated in fact for safety sake I think that this is a project we could support thank you Mr Kavin yeah I tend to be in favor of renewable energy if it's done in a safe and responsible manner uh based on the stipulations we've talked about I think but I don't have any concerns on this front so I'd be in support as well thank you all right based on the deliberation it sounds like i' be seeking a motion to approve Mr W do I have a second please second Mr Sweeny yes yes yes yes yes yes Miss Jenny thank you so much thank you everybody have a great holiday all right likewise and we're going to do some quick board business if you can kind of just drag everybody outside appreciate it very very quickly I just want to thank everyone on the board it's been a challenging year but it's been a productive year um I know that you know Jim I don't want to speak for you but every minute you've been here I've really taken it to heart in gratitude but also uh the town nationally massively appreciates your contribution your missing family events dinners baseball games soccer games thank you from the bottom of my heart I know the councilman especially Michael kersch who's our land use lay on um calls me five times a week and he constantly mentions what a great board this is uh so your work and your contribution definitely does not go unnoticed um Mr Sweeney has a great point we have a backlog um none of that backlog was created except probably by me screaming at Starbucks so I do apologize but we're going to have a safe thoroughfare hopefully uh but again thank you for a wonderful year thank you for saving trees thank you for contributing to Great neighborhoods good projects and if anyone has any board business going into next year um now is the time Mr Sweeney are you satisfied on your issue you mentioned before yeah we need to talk more about it but uh I think that's the point yes let's think about it great thank you for your leadership and thank you for teaching a lot of us what we know and thank you for the board of 2013 I know Jim and I you know Jim was here I wasn't here just yet but but thank you for everything I do appreciate it and I try and pay homage to those boards and Larry vasta and all the great people we learned from back then so thank you again sir merry Christmas happy holidays can I have a motion to adjourn please I move the second Mr Fresco so we don't meet till the second week of January merry Christmas happy holidays our next meeting is January 14th 700 p.m. this roomy holiday that's a long time so between so