[Music] welcome everyone to the the March 20th meeting of the climate and sustainability coordination group um tonight we're going to continue to go through the results of the phase one work that the subgroups have completed and then we're going to discuss um the parameters and format of phase 2 the meat of the assignment sorry Ezra the the core of the of the work changing metaphors um which is the recommendations phase so last week we had um report outs from a couple of the groups so let's go to the groups that haven't reported out yet um who wants to start Roger you want to start yeah I forgot can I share my screen or no yes you can you should be able to you should see on the lower um ribbon the green button sh screen okay it's uh let me just sorry here we go okay you should be seeing just the window with the survey in it is that correct yes okay um so last time we met um we had pretty much zero results this was our Pro this was you know sort of our primary uh you know piece of work we were doing which was to collect survey data from uh PSB staff we had a few people that would help with the pilot so I don't know if you can see the number we have 109 out of maybe Stephen knows about 630 Educators I don't mean full staff that's kind of the number I saw somewhere that's not bad um so you know like uh it might not be exactly valid and representative but I actually feel like in quickly looking over results it looks uh pretty good I'm just going to quickly show you I can't remember if you've seen the survey or not but it's I'm not going to go through every question here this is the uh the version that um you know the sort of editing version um let me just oop something the wrong let me just go to responses sorry um loading Roger I missed that how many responded 109 oh um okay so I don't know let me I can make this bigger I just don't know if you're going to be able to see it very well um but uh it's my dog sling the door okay um so you can see on this top one that's um by school so you know brooken high is about um 38% of respondents but it's you know relatively uh even across schools um uh you know baker has nine Pierce has 20 that's generally the range actually has five but you know um and then by by uh grade level prek has four uh you know we're making a big push on prek but um kindergarten 14 you know first 17 second 18 that's pretty much the range ex until we get to 9th to 12 which is 42 at brookly high but again that's four grades and um I won't go through every single one of these questions but um you know we got some representation from across um disciplines Ela math Performing Arts science social studies Wellness World Language Visual Arts and then some people who are sort of like so well you could sort of self-define if those categories didn't um uh you know didn't fit you um Roland school you know 80 77% of the respondents are mainstream classroom teachers um about four and a half percent are learning center and then there's you know some admin Etc filling out the rest um I just want to highlight a couple things I won't really go through all like the open response which was sort of optional at various points um depending on how you answered it might have moved you to the next question or not um we kind of like the first big question was do you teach about or engage students in climate change sustainability or foundational learning for those Concepts meaning if you're in second grade you know you're probably not learning the phrase climate change but there's foundational things uh and 61% um said yes what's really important there is that know that creates opportunity for us to you know have some sort of through lines if we're sort of all in common Mission about this you know at some point people can kind of see that all right I'm you know doing H you know Butterfly habitat but I can see where that would you know what's the trajectory uh five six seven years ahead so that's kind of um good at the same time you know little over a third of people do not identify as doing anything connected and just you know keep it in mind I mean this includes liter math Etc um all right there's a bunch of open responses there about sort of what you're doing if you are doing that um about 55% of Educators said that they uh engage students in gardening Outdoor Learning field trips or experiential learning connected to climate sustainability or foundational so about half probably most of that is probably gardening and then again we have open responses where people um identify that but like one person wrote you know I use the book where does garbage go um and then they talk about recycling um you know Etc um extracurricular this really was the data is a little bit fuzzy here because we said do you know of any clubs extracurricular or caregiver teacher activities in your school so people didn't necessarily self-report so a lot of the yeses are overlapping like people you know there may have been seven people who said yeah I know about the keep Club at Drisco for example but you know almost 70% well about two-thirds basically said they're aware of something um uh professional development you know I really liked this uh response is their curriculum you'd like to add or professional development or other support for development for developing learning experiences related to climate sustainability and two-thirds said yes just about two-thirds said yes um a third said they want to hide in a hole I'm just kidding but uh but you know really two-thirds said they um are interested in pursuing that um again there's a lot of um you know interesting uh you know 60 people offered some sort of um open response on that um so uh with you know some specific things you know like this person I would like to see the science coordinator do some of this work we add third grade weather unit in the next few academic years would be great if it had a climate change component um i' uh we are currently working on adding science units in the Middle School grades but would be great to see them expand to Upper Elementary um you you know on and on so at some point you know we'll make those more open so that's um you know I I expecting we're not going to get any more responses without any sort of added push you know this didn't really go out until Thursday afternoon and evening uh office office teaching learning sent it out um I sent like a bunch of emails to some curriculum coordinators saying he could ask people to do this which I think actually made some difference so um I don't think the union sent it out but that's okay you might as well hold it open though just just to I mean yeah yeah I won't close it um there's actually I you know I didn't this wasn't part of our plan but I realized I'm gonna make it part of our plan uh and that is that at the same time um I'm also doing every two years I've done a VHS student sustainability survey um so I'm just going to show that to you really quickly um there's uh just refresh you didn't come to the end of the data on this survey did you what's that did you come to the end of the data on the I did yeah the staff one that was that was everything okay um there's you know the last question was are you willing to talk about this more the followup so it looks like some people uh certainly are okay um I'm just going to do this one very quickly um but we have 400 this is about it's not quite a fourth of the school um and again just to show you sort of representation um uh current you're in school so it's not exactly you know perfectly distributed you know there's 16% of the respondents were ninth graders 40% were 10th grade and then 11 and 12 were somewhere in between there um there were some other sort of identifying questions we asked but I'll just you know highlight a couple things I mean basically students are saying that they recognize climate change is happening um they for the most part think it's due to human choices and activity um how much do you think climate change will harm you personally um you know 53% said a moderate amount a quarter said a great deal um when you think of climate change will start to harm people in the United States um you know 68% said 67% are being harmed now we asked in the world 81% said um this was question about how much you think race and class kind of figure into that um this is the part that I'll just highlight real fast you know which of the following statements comes closest to your view in red 53% said humans could reduce global warming but it's unclear at this point whether they will um and then um uh and then 35% said humans could reduce it but they're not willing to change so basically you know about 88% um have reasons to feel very hopeless uh based on that response um and then we asked them connected to that this will be the last point I'll make here in the last month how much have you thought about climate change before taking the survey um you know about half said yes sometimes and 18% said yes on most days and a little under 7% said every day and then we asked you know how have your have you had thoughts or feelings that negatively impact your mental health um two-third said no but almost a third said yes sometimes and three and a half% said yes on most days um and then we also asked how much do it get how does that compare Roger with the previous numbers that you had gathered I have to look back I don't remember um you know it's probably not dramatically different but it's certainly uh at least somewhat stable um and then there's more about you know how much have you learned about climate change in your classes how how much do you want to learn do you think you should learn Etc and then I added a few questions about composting this year Roger that that stuff is seems really germine to yeah the work of this group because it I just like if you're gonna make recommendations about curriculum understanding where the students are as you do with these surveys seems really critical to that like I mean it it literally would help you think about whether to start with a resilience point of view uh a climate adaptation point of view or taking more of an action orientation like the these seems like if you're going to meet students where they're at this is the kind of information you would start with right yeah I mean I love everything you just said and how you said it and um you know I'm gonna highlight some of that at the conversation which I hope a lot of people come to on Tuesday it's meant to be a school Community conversation um you know and like one of the things I'll make a point of is saying that you know I like to say empowerment is the antidote to despair you know you don't have to just know about stuff we have we have to give students opportunities to uh take action and you know you could say that's always true in education but with something that is really connected to mental health that's yeah how could it not get worse you know it seems quite pressing and it's also like an incredible opportunity uh for us as a school to at least at BHS to kind of have some common Mission like there's many things we can be concerned about but this is something that we could all sort of hold together and and be more intentional about and I think it's like really it gives students like a sense of hope you know as soon as you give them some I mean Eric and I are in this you know Club on Thursdays and Wednesdays students are busy you know and they're purposeful these are kids who are thinking about climate change but they're smiling they're having a great time and they're feeling useful and they are being useful and um that's you know know like one of the high points of my week so Eric says yes and I Roger Roger how many how many students responded to this survey 455 455 responded wow that's good yeah it took a lot of pressing and pushing and you know cajoling um uh so I would have liked it to have been a little bit stronger but um anyway I think I think it's meaningful yes any questions for Roger um I have another question Roger other than the surve well two questions other than the survey data is there any other any other critical data points in the inventory like I know when you were when you were reporting in previously you talked about uh interviews you had and I know we had talked about other resources that might be developed in curriculum outside of the schools that might be available to PSP are there any key resources that you just would want to make note of in in the inventory report um not generated by us you may but like right not generated not generated by the survey like um yeah any curriculum that's being used or that's being developed around Brookline or that's available through an extracurricular or anywhere else that might be access ready access to anything necessarily happening in in Brooklyn um you know it seems like I mean it's very hard for me as a high school teacher to kind of know what's going on in the elementaries uh you know a little bit of at Pier since my daughter's there but um and maybe some other teachers I know you know Mark goldner does this incredible project in sence science and art it's does these beautiful things like there's a few things like that I know um I'm less sort of uh interested in like I mean people have shared some stuff and haven't gone through it all less interested in kind of knowing about like specific things that people do and I don't want to tell people don't do that project do this project or whatever but but you know there's but there's several other states uh California New Jersey in particular that have you know K to 12 or pre- to 12 um you know scope and sequence kind of stuff you know new jerseyy is the only state that requires at least K to 12 uh climate education um and then California is just you know California so's a lot of interesting resources there um I can't say I know those intimately but there's like interesting ways to sort of say here are like domains of learning I kind of feel like for Lauren and Min and I uh to kind of go through all this and make recommendations like it's it's a little we can do some of that preliminarily but I think it's like really a step later is to get a much bigger group to really begin to think you know through that stuff if it seems like there's momentum and uh and support for doing that it's going to take some time and support um but I I do feel like you know in here embedded in here is um there's a will there's a desire um and there's like incredible opportunity because there's you know some teachers who are well every teach teachers like making their own of some of their requirements and have these pet projects that are cool and interesting and experiential um especially in the Elementary grades and you know it would be just nice to kind of think about how do we you know what's that what's a scope that people can find some connection to um you know can we say in PSB that we're going to create opportunities uh K to 12 for outdoor experiences at some point with a connection somewhere to foundational practice is around understanding you know climate but like you said the resilience the mental health piece the you know racial and class Justice pieces you know that totally has to be in there um especially if we're gonna you know we're going to do like climate specific stuff that's depressing for a lot of people so we need to offer like support for that but if it's like doing exploration of habitat that setting them up for climate change later hopefully that's not so depressing you know but I do think like there is a mental health issue it's the last thing to say and I think we really need to build that in on top of all the other mental health stuff we're doing but you know me our Mental Health social workers psychologists Etc I think need to be mindful of how this may be independently um acting upon uh all the other forces that are you know conspiring against young people's men Health right now yeah Dean yeah I wanted to just mention uh Roger I'm very struck by you saying to us that the really the high point of your whole week is the after school environmental club right I mean that you're saying a lot right there and I would say Francesca with the keep club might may have a similar kind of feeling I'm think thinking of the students in those clubs that are energized as you said happy working together solving problems taking action I just don't want to lose that thread I mean I believe every school it's a policy thing a policy recommendation every school needs a stipended after school climate related program where kids take action because you're right Roger that's going to keep people going that's going to help mental health it's you know we're all in this together that to me that's very very important that and the fact that you said that about being your high point Eric is that one of your high points yes I think you said it is okay so so Roger what um what more needs to be done do you think to to close this phase and move into the recommendations phase for your group um I mean I think we have to sort of package this up a little bit I don't you know highlight some of the pieces some of the quotes maybe I I haven't I admit I haven't taken a deep look at the template you sent us just because we were so far from being ready to do that I mean this is all coming in literally in the last few days right um so maybe men Lauren and I have to kind of go back and think through that but I would love to get yours and any other sort of input I I it seemed you know mean well I can talk offline about this later but right this first piece is really just sort of uh a preliminary kind of shorter take on stuff right um but we will be the four Comm subcommittees are going to be doing larger presentation later to school committee or what well I want to talk about that at the at the end of the meeting so so let's let's talk offline about how to how to wrap up this phase the short answer is I'm not too worried about how to wrap this up again because I don't see this as being a a a major uh the the external presentation of this deliverable to me is not so important it's just going to what what's important is the recommendations deliverable because that's going to be the one that's presented I mean for people who want to know what happened during this phase we should this should be completed and filed and for people who want to look at it they should be able to look at it but um to me it's it should be um organized and available and people should be able to understand what happened during this phase but um it to me it's again mostly a resource for the next phase which which is the important public faing phase um what other group which which was the other group that has not uh reported out in the inventory phase yet probably think that was ma Matthew right in the Energy Group yeah uh so good news for us is we were able to have our final data collecting session we were able to have an interview with Charlie great that was amazing um we got a lot of insight from um he also gave us a data download for all just public thanks anyone listening to Helen for making that happen yeah that was that was that was super key uh so right now I am crunching basically updating all our data um I'll do a quick share based on essentially we have our report written up I just now have to update the data based on what Charlie gave us and I will update our graphs and and and figures uh and the like once I figure out where oh the share screen that helps yeah so again we have our reports essentially few people have to put in their bios we have outline of our processes we're basically creating a summary table that basically just list a lot of our findings whether from an energy perspective uh from a fuel usage and then features that we found in each of the buildings or or heard from from Charlie um we then go into just a little bit about the actual data so talking about how energy has changed uh gone up or down at each of the individual schools again just helps hotspot I guess show the progress that's happened particularly with the new schools um we go a little bit then into the actual emissions and just showing where how much emissions are coming from each of the schools and how it splits between natural gas and electricity understanding that talking with Charlie and this is not necessarily A Town policy and that's the thing that's one of the things that findings that he's running into is there's no directive that says please Electrify please get rid of all the missions but he's kind of building that road map under the scenes um and needs a little bit of hey the town actually wants to do this so he can actually you know bring forth U this type of plan uh but this basically just it just shows where those admissions are it's really interesting to know that there's that there's not a town directive that he's that he's operating under right they have eui directive for the new buildings but that's the only hard policy that exists in the town so otherwise he he knows this is the direction that people want but there's no there's nothing that he can point to that says this is what the town wants to do I'm going in that direction what about our the PSP sustainability policy is there not sufficient Direction in that to to um mandate uh to to provide a mandate for him regarding PSB buildings I'm wondering if there's a policy Gap that you identified with this that's essentially I think what we've identified and that might be one recommendations to start closing what are those kpis he should actually be balancing against cost um and what is the actual future desire is it is it Net Zero is it zero emissions is it full electrification and he can work towards that he he has a full inventory of all our fost equipment he has thoughts on you know the general timeline of that it would be replaced and what they would be replaced with but obviously that that costs money um and he just need direct if that's the decision we need to go then then then I'll you know I'll formalize his plan and then we'll we'll post it um I think that's the Gap that he communicated to us that exists right now as he's trying to support this type of uh type of program that's great because that's so easily remedied but doesn't that surprise doesn't that surprise you Steve I Brookline has a 2040 deadline for zero fossil fuel emissions yeah I'm I'm really curious where the space between the PSP sustainability policy and Zab turned out to be that didn't provide this mandate to Charlie I believe him that there wasn't one but it's uh it was an inadvertent Gap so it's something that we can seems like a no-brainer recommendation that we close it via policy I what I'm curious about is whether it's a a PSP policy that can close it or whether it's Town policy but either way I don't see why the school committee can't at the very least coordinate the policy either on the school side or the town side anyway sorry to please go on no perfect yeah we've uh found out some really neat things they're doing um so they're using artificial intelligence to understand when to turn on some of the equipment in the building and it basically adapts to what is actually necessary based on temperature outside uh and use of the building to determine so that was kind of a really interesting just you know technology usage to to optimize and reduce energy usage so I thought that was neat because I know at thermofisher we're not using that at the moment so Kudos kudos to him um yeah so we basically find those type of things again the general findings was um what I mentioned um there was a desire to share more of this data with the community he he tried to update it um I guess there was a sustainability person in the planning department or DPW that used to kind of publish some of this but that kind of all died with covid so I think he wants to like how do we how do we share this data how do we share performance how we share all the good things that we're doing with the community so I think that he found that to be a gap of oh we're actually doing a lot of great things but nobody knows about it great I mean terrible but great that that's that's such an easily actionable area for this group exactly so that that's kind of the big things that we got other than you know still got to Crunch through the data to see you know where the hot spots what people are performing great which ones are behind are they already up for you know uh Demolition and rebuild anyway and those type of things otherwise and we have you know some great uh one of the members kind of for a good overview of the two tours that we did at Pierce and Driscoll and with some picture in the commentary that's going to be essentially be the the inventory report for us this is really interesting to me because it sounds like your group actually has more in common with the food and waste group than the than the other groups in that the challenge is more about unlocking and um hang on kid it I'm I'm in the middle of the meeting it's in the freezer sorry about that everybody um the ice cream is in the freezer um threw me off the it has more in common with the food and waste group in that it's more about unlocking and removing obstacles from a plan that's already in place and and improving communication around that plan rather than strategizing new ideas or coordinating uncoordinated efforts does that sound right sounds about right for us based on what Charlie and indicated he kind of has in the works okay that's that's great to know that's that could be a nice framework for the recommendations at the end too maybe he can even um provide a like an early review of the recommendations or someone on his team any any questions for Matthew I have a small minor question that I'm almost reluctant to ask um I taught at the old Lincoln school for a couple years and I thought they had some like early version of um heat pumps that were providing both um cooling and heating are they only cooling those those units that are in a lot of the classrooms you you might not know this but yeah we don't know how the specifics of every single school they were putting uh heat pumps into into some of the classrooms particularly the old ones but they the central base heating system might still be that you know natural gas yeah thank you um Matthew what does your group need to finalize this phase do you think uh we just just I think it's on me to crunch some numbers um and then uh chrisy kind of formalizing that table and then we're essentially done on the inventory okay do you see do you anticipate any obstacles to it or do you feel pretty good about okay so just some time okay um any further I think we're good then on inventory presentations right so let's um so Roger let's talk offline about the format for the inventory when when they're all complete please put them in the in your working group subfolder in the in on Google Drive and then Betsy when they're finalized let's um upload them to to um actually we don't have a place for this we'll have to figure out a place to to file them okay so maybe you and I can talk about what would be an appropriate place to put them okay sure okay so let's talk for the next chunk of this meeting on the next phase recommendations so the goal so this is an open discussion and I'll I'll The Next Step will be mine after this discussion to create a template for all the groups to use but um what I want to talk about is what will be the most compelling format for the recommendations phase the goal of the recommendations phase I think is to present your recommendations as clearly as and compellingly to um decision makers and PSB so that would be the administration the school committee and uh other influential stakeholders who might advocate for uh uh the recommendations you make um so so I I mean I think it's a presentation of some kind or multiple presentations but I want to just open this up to your ideas about what you think would be the most effective way to make your recommendations it seems to me if we if we just had one it would be too much for all those people to sit through I would think a presentation from how many how many groups right no I think there should be free yeah go ahead go ahead Dean so free St you know free standing separate because it's just too much I mean every single one of these subcommittees has a big charge right so I could see quite a few policy recommendations and other kinds of communication recommendations coming out of each group at least I know there's a lot with waste reduction healthy foods and all I don't know okay I mean but I think there should be multiple presentations but I do think there should be at the very least one school committee docketed session devoted to I would like to advocate for one school committee docketed session devoted to the recommendations of the four groups so it should just be the recommendations and a representative of each of the groups um making [Music] them um go ahead Eric um I am wondering about um the like longer term life of these recommendations and it's I I feel like um if we make our recommendations it's going to be super overwhelming and if I'm a school Committee Member listening to these uh recommendations I'm going to be like wow that's a lot that we have to do how am I going to keep it in my head and it seems like um some of the things will be ask for you know they're not like it's not all going to happen at once and it's a lot to keep in your mind and I'm wondering um how we go about um making sure that the that these recommendations live on even after we kind of like make our pitch I think that um so apart from the report and uh presentation I I'm I'm very visual so I need like a kind of a table to see where we are and how we are moving so for me it would be very helpful for example U the recommendations are attached to a timeline and to the procedure this is a policy needs to be done this is attached to some monetary improvements or whatever that when the school committee go back to the recommendation they can really translate to a kind of an action plan like oh okay I see this policies that doesn't cost money let's do that I mean you know at the beginning um let's start with that and then move like kind of along this table so there is something like visual that helps you visualize how is this going to be translated in a kind of an action plan and also results I know I I think it's probably very complicated to attach to kind of um er what kind of emissions cut like that it would be ideal but I think that's really I think Beyond that's a very complicated calculation but um but some kind of a timeline or a uh result that we would like to see something like that I think that would be helpful for the schol committee to not feel overwhelmed as Eric says like oh my God why should I do what all this is now um well a couple things just one following Eric and one following Rebecca so maybe just on Rebecca what I think I might have heard too is maybe there's um sort of a web-based you know um interactive kind of space where there's like four slide decks or something where people could kind of you know look at maybe the most accessible of our information and just kind of you know just just have it be publicly accessible um in in a way that's easy but you know following up on Eric's comment I mean we have the sustainability policy right that's kind of like driving this thing but there's no te there's no timeline there's no enforcement there's no budget so part of I guess maybe we should think about now or later is like how do we make this um actionable people may like wow that's really interesting oh I'm actually even overwhelmed maybe I can't deal with this unless there's like what has to be in place to um to make this move forward and maybe maybe the recommendations are kind of like tiered in some ways so that um you know people feel it's overwhelming but okay let's do part one of or or tier one and tier two of our uh you know Food Services and waste that's something we can do now in a I don't know maybe there's like a timeline or a timetable that goes with some of our recommendations that feels pushing a little bit but also kind of realistic I don't know I'm just trying to get my head around like how do we make this you know all million priorities how do we make this kind of rise to a higher priority so that sounds like a table with some attributes whether it's how how level of effort to implement um theoretically resources cost although we might not have that um and then complexity so I guess it's it's a recommendation I know do we want to say like the intended outcome or the intended kpi that we measured against so they understand what this links to and then some of the other attributes I guess that that's really the summary and then obviously they probably want a little bit more detail but that might be not what gets presented but you know the backup so they could always pull pull back up to it if they need it yeah so I definitely think that every recommendation should have an intended outcome and a timeline associated with it I I think the timeline can be pretty loose I think it could be short medium and long term [Music] um and I think we also need to have categories of recommendations like whether it's a policy recommendation a human resource recommendation and some kind of financial investment recommendation apart from human resources and we can come up with those categories um I hear you also that one big data dump is unlikely to produce change so but I also think that there does need to be a culminating presentation but I think per per it could be last I wonder if one there could be subcommittee presentations for instance the food and waste group and the uh education curriculum group can present maybe I maybe we can present to the curriculum subcommittee because they I think they both to both groups to me reasonably fall within the the um with within that Ambit and the energy and um the energy can present to Capital what am I leaving out Dean Transportation transportation and transportation also to Capital I would think but then there so that's one but then there's non school committee related audiences and I mean for transportation that's that's obvious there's a bunch of them out there I wonder if first we present to subcommittees and civil Society groups to to build um more Niche interest in the topics and then we um and we build to a dock at at school committee conversation and we invite a lot of the groups there to public comment as well so that they are able to comment intelligently informly on the substance of the presentation something like that so it doesn't so people don't encounter that maybe they've encountered pieces of it that they're interested in previously if not the entire thing but I do think that that they should that that there should be a presentation that's the kind of a Capstone presentation where the high level recommendations are heard in full and the entire school committee has an opportunity to to ask questions of all the the subgroup coordinators um I mean we have like you know what eight 10 weeks left of this school year something like that um you know part of me feels like we should not be doing too much of this over the summer because you know people won't be around and I hate to sort of go too far out but I'm just wondering like maybe there's a series of four nights you know in like September October or something like that and I think so too I I think there's also a lot more energy the beginning of the school year then at the end of the school year I think there's just like my recollection from like May school committee meetings is that they're usually like exhausted whereas the fall ones there's just like everyone's bright and eager again um I I think it would make sense to do it in the fall and I still also want to get us all together to do some of the recommendations work in person yeah yeah so maybe that happens like late in the school year I mean potentially can try to do something in the summer but that's just hard because everyone's that seems really unlikely to me but like maybe in late May or early June we have you know a little bit of that so we're kind of sinking up a little bit yeah that's not a bad idea maybe that's when we do some subcommittee presentations or maybe we maybe I can advocate for that and then maybe do something in full the beginning of the school year how does that sound to people you and someone else was saying like we're looking for a sort of a bigger audience so is that a school committee meeting that's in the school committee room or is that you know a school committee sponsored event I don't know maybe that doesn't have to be decided right now but I don't see why it can't be both and I don't see why it has to be school committee sponsored I don't see why we can't I guess because we are part of the school committee but I don't see why this group can't docket a public meeting as an event as well saying like this is a a public in-person meeting where we invite you to hear recommendations and we're inviting the public to a more interactive discussion of the results of this at the high school for instance or something like that I mean also like if you want to really put some pressure on moving this forward having the public you know there in a larger presence you know yeah I I know for at least I mean very specifically the waste reduction part right of what we're going to be recommending probably I can I can think of some Affinity groups that might you know be interested in coming to a presentation I mean we've had you know four years of the zero waste mother's out front right people volunteers working at uh Brooklyn I school trying to get all everybody to do composting we have swack Solid Waste ADV advisory committee right that I'm on and certainly John Dempsey and others we've worked on waste reduction townwide who probably be interested in knowing where what the schools are presenting we have a full zero waste group as part of mothers out front that's bigger than just the volunteers anyway so there are some Affinity groups that might be interested in that yeah I know I agree with you like the David Perman the school committee chair likes to say to me that um he gets asked about this group all the time from all kinds of people there's just a lot of enthusiasm about what is happening here which doesn't surprise me I mean this is I feel like there's a lot of community interest in this topic all of this everybody all these sustainability group about what's happening with the CL and sustainability group and what when are we going to hear about the results so I I wouldn't be surprised if if we were able to mobilize Community interest around the recommendations I don't think I'm just being hopeful I think that's legitimate engagement that we could get from the community yeah timing's important you town meeting is coming up I forget when are they this in May and then you have many of your big wigs are busy for night after night after night yeah that's true so Betsy maybe another thing that you and I can do is we could start looking at calendars to start to plan out um well I guess I'll have to talk to whoever the incoming chair would be to about docketing this because there's going to be turnover in the school committee after the elections in May David will be leaving the school committee and there'll be a new chair so so I guess those conversations will have to happen with whoever are the new officers all right so that'll be TBD on the on the dates but I think I think the schedule of having some subcommittee meeting uh trying to dock of this in subcommittees in the spring and having a bigger meeting or having bigger meetings in the fall that seems like a good plan to me but back to the format um how else do you think this can be made I have to say when you were talking about it just now I was fantasizing about like finding College interns to make some animated presentation and having it live on a website that someone's volunteering to create but I don't know those kinds of people um what what other ways do you think this could be made most compellingly to various audiences well pictures pictures tell a thousand words we got to get pictures somehow or other I don't know how but we need pictures I mean do we do any of you know people who can help volunteer to make a more multimedia presentation by any chance I mean big is there in in high school uh uh class that they collaborate with the brookly Interactive Group yeah Eric does your group does your group have people who have those kinds of skills who who would be interested in doing stuff like that um I don't know that the maybe I mean I don't think they would be I don't know anybody who would be great at it Roger do you know anybody who would be really great at it well the this might be a huge you know request but there's a woman who um who I'd mentioned way long ago who have who wants to help put my you know the data from these surveys into slides uh and she did like Stephen maybe some of the others saw some of the slides from two years ago they look I mean she's really good um I don't know how much work this is but um you know she's Brook Line Community member and I think they still have kids in the schools she's really good with data and presenting stuff so maybe um I mean right now I'm trying to get her to help me with just these slides right now to have at least a few of them for next week's thing uh and it's like a quick turnaround so it's kind of asking a lot but this would not be till much later right right this would be for the fall I mean if if we had if we want to start just poking around our personal networks to see if anyone has the interest in volunteering to help with the visualization of recommendations I think that would be really that would be great we don't have any reason we don't have any policy against it yeah I think Matthew had said maybe but you know thinking about like what are all the I'm just looking at my notes like the um sort of who's uh sort of relevant for uh you taking action is it a policy is it human resource you know having think of some of those like categories that you said you would think through Stephen maybe each one has kind of like a little icon you know right like a time table going across right something like kind of simplify it like that well so for now I think we should at the very least prepare two just basic decks one would be a subgroup deck and and then one that we compile out of those subgroup decks to be the main one that we could try to make really compelling but I think we should just focus on the subgroup one where we come up with what's the context for this what what what's the what's the lay of the line and and then what's the recommendations based on that and sketching out those recommendations in terms of their category their what what kind of recommendation they are what's the timeline for it and what's the outcome of that recommendation how's it really going to benefit Brookline and then we'll try to create a master presentation out of that that shows the big picture how is this really going to make Brookline the kind of District that really prepares youth for a different climate future yeah Stephen uh maybe that's maybe thinking too far out but is there um plans to follow up with these recommendations let's say this group make their recommendations to SCH committees SCH committees start doing whatever implementation are we going to meet again to follow up on those things no the end of the Mandate for this group is to is to make the recommendations okay because I think that would be also important like the follow up of what we have recommended the results if we see the progress and so that it doesn't just die okay no however however Steve I I bet we've thought about it in our group there may be a recommendation that comes out of this that there is an Advisory board right that is going to follow up on this annually or semiannually and follow along with the progress if there if a recommendation is that there be some kind of accountability mechanism in the of an Advisory Group a volunteer advisory team that meets quarterly to uh request results or something like that the only thing is the school committee didn't sign on to a commitment when it mandated the existence of this group it signed on to um an inv body to come up with recommendations that they could or could not accept so we just have to make sure that I don't know if it's an accountability mechanism but maybe more of a support mechanism to identify and further encourage ways of adopting the recommendations or something like that it it needs teeth I mean we can go beyond what the school committee has given approval for I think we that's the recommendation we're going to have to make if there's no teeth in this if nobody's going to look at this you know forget it I mean I think if we make my I guess my position is there is appetite for recommendations that help kids help Brookline youth really meet the challenges they face and that to me is the context of this whole group's work you know so it you know in the that's how I see it I know in this budget climate like everything seems like non-core you know like anything that's not related to a very narrow band of services is hard to justify but this feels really core to me and that's how I want to present it so that's how I that's how I see the recommendations I don't know if that's helpful to hear but that's how I see it it seems to me that if we have a kind of table as Rebecca was saying or or or a timeline um and we frame them as goals um or I don't I'm not sure what the language is goals or expectations or whatever then I mean if you frame them as goals then you can then um you know organize or other people can organize political pressure on school committee um in you know over the coming months and years uh and say you are not meeting the goals that your own committee set meet them recommended yeah that's great that's great if this group turns into a a pressure group to that's terrific I'm all for it we set the goals and then other people pressure um or you I mean or we do too but yeah okay um we have another minute left in this meeting any any final thoughts or questions or or any other business to bring up de so you'll give us you're going to give us parameters pretty quickly because our group has moved on to recommendations policy recommendations and and our group is people are are dividing up and taking certain ones to get more information about but we want to know what the parameters are in the final report so I'm going to give you um I'm going to give you a template for a deck to prepare your recommendations and um is that what was that gesture yeah I just need a I need a timeline like when like let me do it next week I'll have it by the end of next week the end of next week all right we yeah we got another meeting coming up good okay um and then let me also try to set a date for an in-person meeting let's shoot for May for that um and then let me also third action item for me is let me also see about getting us docketed in subcommittee meetings for a preliminary share out as some of our recommendations so I guess we should actually we should meet in person before that so let me work on dates for both of those things so I have got the next three action items great to see everyone thank you for all your heart take care everybody bye bye bye thanks Steve --------- [Music] okay welcome everyone to the March 20th 2024 Finance subcommittee of the Brookline school committee um we will jump right in with um first item on the agenda which is approval of Finance subcommittee meeting minutes for February 28th 2024 and March 6th 20 um 20 2024 um can I get a motion thanks Natalie do we have to vote those separately Betsy or can we vote them as one thing I think it's fine for one thing and okay unless anyone has a problem and wants to do them separately okay Sarah do you second yes okay Natalia how do you vote Yes Sarah yes and I vote Yes okay on to to the next item on the agenda um which now I lost the agenda give me a moment apologies this is what happens when I spend too much time joining Zoom at the beginning and then I run out of time to do everything else it's grants if you don't find grants thank you um so the grant item there are um the two grants that are here both that are from the state one is fromal mental health health and the other one is for um Civics teaching and learning and the total for the two combined is 84 SE um 375 84 375 um any questions or comments from the subcommittee or anyone no okay can I get a motion to approve motion to approve okay Sarah do you have a second second okay uh Sarah how do you vote Yes malalia yes and I vote Yes um and then next is gifts and thank you by process of elimination um and so you can see there's um about eight gifts there um mostly for um the high school um one is for the Whipple writing Fellowship which is such a great project and then um that's from the Whipple fund $2,000 from the society for science for the science department um and then several gifts to the boys volleyball team that will go into the athletic gift account and then one donation to the um district for $500 so um thank you to all of the donors for those um for those gifts any questions or comments from the subcommittee okay can I get a motion for approval I motion okay natal I'm gonna take you as a second Sarah how do you vote Yes nalia yes and I vote Yes okay um next item on the agenda which like I said I've lost what is the next item on the agenda uh it is the um BHS bus South Brookline bus but Susan um I think we can pull up her presentation which has yeah it covers everything in the agenda right okay okay so why don't we do that would you like me to share it for you would be great you're so good at that well hasn't happened yet so be careful yay thank you can everyone see it okay yeah before we get into this I just want to preface people with a reminder at our last meeting on March 6th we had a review of all of the user fees um and there were several questions and this follows up on um some of the questions from last time um and I the that we had there was just as a reminder again there's an entire series of fees that are collected and only a few of them um were recommended for increase this year um one being materials fee one being um some of the fees for testing that are pass through fees um the beep um tuition which we're going to talk to more extensively and were there any other ones I don't think so I think those might have been it right so so this is the follow up and answering some of the questions and then um that came up during that conversation and then I think we'll have a more extensive conversation about the beep um tuition has Margaret joined us yet or not yet not yet okay well why don't you go ahead Susan and then we'll um hopefully she'll be here by the time we get to beep yeah um so one of the questions that was asked at the last meeting was um regarding ridership and the cost of running the two uh BHS South Brookline buses so um this year it costs 189,000 to run the bus and next year the cost would be uh $98,000 and then in terms of ridership historically um that bus uh would run uh approximately 120 to 130 students per day uh to and fro and since we eliminated the fee uh we have 200 students that have registered for uh riding the South Brookline bus that doesn't mean every single one of them uh rides every day but uh the morning runs are always full and we call it the early after after school bus the 3:00 bus is always full the 4:00 bus can be full but uh sometimes it just depends on uh what's going on after school so that is the writers ship and that is the cost uh associated with the uh BHS South Brooklyn buses any questions from the committee on that no that's there I just have one question which is um just sort of thinking about it from a per user basis so it's about is that like about $500 per year per student am I doing my math right no $1,000 I'm sorry per student per year is that correct um okay and so it's about and if we take it at 180 um school school days then it's about $5 is 550 a day so it's comparable with the T but providing the direct service back and forth an interesting way to look at it maybe that's how you were looking at it at the time I don't know nope we had no idea how many students were going to we didn't know if it was going to be a huge increase or not so we estimated if I recall the additional $200,000 cost um and there was the the fee that was to offset the user fees but the um but the user fees never covered the entire cost of the bus to begin with so okay and uh in looking at that I think it was somewhere around 45,000 that you collected in fees before so if the cost of the buses was somewhere around sound almost exactly right yeah yeah that's right if it's 120 and I think it was around $400 a student so that's 48,000 and you said you collected 45 so that's sounds very close yeah yeah okay um any other questions or comments on on that I don't think anyone had just me okay you want to keep going sure so another question that was asked at the meeting um was um in relation to the uh Food Service Revenue collection so um where the state is now uh funding lunches for students and meals I should say because breakfast program also uh the question was well how do we get the money um and so we file claims at the end of each month and um and the state reimburses us uh the following month so that is the the process for getting our money from the state and the funds are deposit of course in the Food Service revolving fund I think that was a Helen question I think it was Val oh no I thought it was Val I think it was Val too yeah yeah was it okay yeah that's everyone can claim credit okay any questions from the committee on that okay you want to keep going sure um so on the fee schedule from the last meeting um we did not include the preac um fee so this provides you with the fee for that so it's $20 I believe it went up uh but the pre act um is now on our schedule and we had received some estimates from the high school administration on what they felt were uh appropriate numbers to use for participation so that you kind of get a sense of what Revenue would be generated of course this is not pro for profit this is a pass through um so we collect the fees and then we we pay for the student test so it's not uh a revenue generating I'm assuming we publish this information for the benefit of the families so that uh they they can see this and and know this um as they're as they're planning for uh uh the upcoming year so we didn't have we only had three for FY 24 that were shown we had the 20 for Pac 20 for psct and 97 per AP exam do we know what the ACT charge was last year or for this current year I don't know Diane's on the call she was the one that did the research on this so um perhaps she knows the answer I think it was I think it was uh 67 okay so it all just went up well a couple went up by a dollar and and two by nothing okay I'm going to still claim to be new and ask um just logistic questions that I don't know yet so um how are these fees charged are we able to do it online and are there additional fees to families just for the transaction um the uh the College Board people have an intermediary step where the students register and the fees are paid and then that turns the money over to us in a lump and then we pay it to the col board people so I'm not sure why they do it that way but that's how they do it I do not believe there's any up Mark for registering online I do know there's an upm Mark if you register late so that if you register in a timely way it is less expensive than if you register at the last minute that's super helpful thank you I just my daughter just had me submit a check for pre act so it wasn't an online registration we had to send a check them are not all of them are not yeah some are some aren okay yeah I think the AP exam if I recall maybe was online but the pre one the preac at least was a check um okay I think we're getting close to the beep section of things Margaret um texted me and just said uh if she's not online by now um she's on her way to be gone okay why don't we start because there's quite a bit of context you have here and I'm sure she'll join us by the time we get into it yeah okay um so there were a lot of questions asked about beep and um rightly so because the program is changing um uh to an all day program not um an all or an extended I interrup I see Margaret's in that attendees Betsy if you don't mind promoting her y okay sorry go ahead Susan yeah absolutely so um so beep is really essentially two programs under one umbrella um school districts uh in the Commonwealth provide uh students on IEPs with uh an inclusionary uh preschool program and that program is designed to have uh a certain number of peer students um in those classrooms and so as we look at beep um you know we have kind of a mandatory program component and then more of an optional program component and so for uh the students who are on IEPs of course you can't charge tuition um and when you look at tuitions um in other school districts you'll see that the tuition that is charged for their programs public schools are typically lower than what you would see in a private um uh for-profit uh Early Childhood Program and um one of the challenges of of of having the inclusionary program when especially when there's a lot of other options available in a community is um attracting uh families to participate in your in your uh special education um in inclusion program and so you'll see um across the board that the the tuition fees are lower to ensure that you have enough um uh peer students um in your program to to run a a robust um uh program for those students and so so there's there's the two buckets and I and so when you look at the enrollment pieces you'll see uh enroll ments in three categories so there's uh students on IEPs that are in the inclusion program and then sometimes students are tuition paying but but while they're in the program um they may identify a particular service that would help uh develop a skill that a student might be lagging and and so uh there are some students that might have some IEP services that are paying tuition um and then there's of course just uh peer students that are are are in the program paying tuition so what you can see is that you know you're you're running about 290 students in general other than in 2021 um overall uh a dip not surprising that was a CO year uh that you you'd see fewer students uh participating in the program then but looks like you've you know you're running around uh 288 you know this year 270 last year 29 through the year before four so there seems to be some consistency and over the last three years you've run you know between 53 and 55 students um on IEPs with uh full inclusion Services uh required so I I thought it would be important to to share that so you know I've heard um not necessarily from this committee but others think that uh the be program is is a business model you know Revenue generating and it and it really um um perhaps maybe a component of it is but it isn't self-funding um and it never would be self-funding uh because the nature of the program um or the origins maybe not of beef but of of uh these Early Childhood programs in public schools are are centered around um an inclusion uh Early Childhood inclusion program so um and I provided some information here about you know ratios and um giv you the citation if you wish to look a little closer at at what the RS say um but essentially you know they recommend a ratio of peers to students on IEPs in a classroom somewhere between 50 to 75% peers to students on IEPs so I thought you know U you know Margaret and I had spoken and and uh felt that you know running a an illustration using a 60% um ratio of peers to students would would would be more likely uh what it would look like here in our programs of course this is a rule of thumb it's not um Concrete in some classrooms you would have less peers depending on the the needs of the students um and you know perhaps in some you might have a few more but uh just to illustrate um this year we have 55 students on IEPs in that program and so um a the complimentary peers would be uh 83 if you were running at a 60% ratio um and the total enrollment for that component for the inclusionary uh program would be about 138 students of the 288 students enroll and the um a couple of things um to note again that Public School tuition rates for students attending these Early Childhood inclusion area programs is is is less and you'll see that in the data below um and another thing uh that Margaret and I uh talked about is if we only ran an inclusionary program here would we have sufficient space within our walls once once uh Pierce um school was completed to uh provide that program within our schools and the answer to that is yes um we do not have enough space right now for the entire V program and so we do have leases that we pay for um and we'll continue to pay for if we want to keep um the program as large as it is today so uh tuition um uh again uh just reiterating um here that uh the costs are a little little less and and here's some current data on private schools in the area and then public schools in the area um so you can see as I was stated earlier that uh the rates are much higher for the private schools than they are for the for the public um So currently beep is uh tuition for the beep program is 12,000 but it's not for a full day program um our program I think currently runs from 8 until 11:30 but Margaret can correct me if I'm wrong maybe 12 um and am I right Margaret 12:15 sorry 12:15 sorry 12:15 okay um and uh next year we would be uh running the program from 8: am to 2:30 which mirrors what we're offering uh a typical school day for elementary students um and then on Fridays of course we would be running the program from 8 until 1:40 um and so that's an increase of uh several hours uh two two hours and a and a quarter uh Monday through Thursday so that's wonderful uh so we don't know exactly what our participation is going to be uh under this new model um if if it remains what it is today um then um and that's the only information we do have um I've provided some information about what uh at different uh tuition levels how much revenue would be generated um so we we have 233 uh tuition paying less are 40 uh that receive financial assistance uh which leaves 193 um paying students and so if you take 193 multiply it by 14,000 you get a revenue of 2.7 million um at 15,000 you'd get uh 2 basically 9 million um at 16 you know a little over three million and at 17 uh 3,281 so uh the next section uh shares with you information about the cost so uh the school operating budget supports 4, 108,000 uh the revolving fund um uh pays for $2.9 million in expenses and then we have a grant um that that funds 210,000 and then the C classroom capacity for those Le es uh 77,000 and then the benefits associated with the beef staff uh beep staff is a little over a million dollars so the the all-in cost of beep is um $9 million can I ask a question Susan yes um so like the school operating budget let me big picture question is it correct that the school operating budget is essentially covering the special education cost and the revolving fund is covering the costs that are associated with I'll say the general education program of the um of beep I don't think it's as clean as that but what I can say is that the school operating budget does fund all special education expenses and it and it does fund um some of the regular education teachers um to support the peers what I can't say for certain and uh maret and I can look at this deeper um in the upcoming year is is if if we're running only an inclusionary program how many regular education or early childhood teachers do we need just to run that versus as we expand and I'm have an answer to that question tonight but I can say that the revolving fund exp there are no special education related costs funded out of the revolving fund expenses okay is it and probably you'll say the same thing you just said but I'm just going to ask again is the as you think about the 60% peer number does the operating budget essentially cover the special education plus the peers but not the which is 138 students but not the other 150 students is that that's what I can't answer tonight okay that that Margaret and I had talked about that but we didn't have time to go back and try to because it's not it's not um set up that way right now as I've described it right right so she and I would have to sit down and really work with OSS to say for each of the classrooms that we had this would be the appropriate peers and then um and then be able to do that analysis but we we it took a lot to get to just get us here so very good yeah I mean if Susan if I may inter um inter if you don't mind um I just first of all thank you all for inviting me tonight I'm sorry that I was a little bit late I um I didn't get the invitation I just got it but that's okay I was I'm in transit um and wanted to thank you all for inviting me I also wanted to thank um Susan and Diane because um this has been a lot of work uh to try to um untangle the web that is beep has become over the last 52 years in terms of what it provides for the public schools of Brooklyn because if you recall the roots of beep are in spe are not in Special Ed but are in in general education it started out as An Early Childhood Program from the Boston College research that was um supporting that and then it evolved as special education needs evolved in the Commonwealth to include an inclusive model and so I think that's why when you look at other districts across the Commonwealth you will see that not many of them are quite as large or have quite a as robust An Early Childhood Program as we have in terms of the number of classrooms and the number of students that we serve and to get to your question Mariah that is where we are trying to land um with beep we are trying to determine right what is it that we need to provide um to to meet the requirements of the special education needs of our of our our families and students in Brooklyn and then what in addition do we want to um to to offer people in most districts there is a slight there is a charge for peer models they pay some tuition sometimes it's just a nominal tuition and the and the revolving fund or the OSS budget is covering the other cost of it and then in other districts there um like in our district there is a large peer model and not many districts are lucky enough as we are to have as many peer models as we do um um to to to have in the program so I think the long-term goal in talking to Dr given and um Miss Johnson is to really figure out exactly the question that you just asked Mariah like make sure that we are we are funding what is required by us to fund um through the operating budget and through OSS is budget and then what do we want to offer for that early child opponent and and what does that look like moving forward for beep as we reestablish our classrooms in the in the elementary schools um and move to toward that Vision that we have a common Vision that we have um as a district so I think we're getting we're getting close to understanding that that model and I think that the revolving fund is definitely covering the cost that it needs to cover um I just don't know to Susan's point that though those minute details that I think we're going to have to spend the next year figuring out um as we move through with a new finance department okay um one are you Susan are you going to talk about the scholarship um question yes yeah so another question that was asked is whether it was uh legally prohibited to um fund yes thank you uh fund financial assistance through a revolving fund um and the answer to that is no there is no legal um you know regulatory or statute of any sort that would prohibit that um further there was an assertion that we're funding scholarships through the operating budget and that is not the case that is not the case right can I can I also interject so sorry I keep interrupting but I'll let someone else ask questions if if that would be more helpful go ahead Margaret so I'm thinking so one of the things that so we're not technically offering scholarships right we are having lost Revenue sure right right so like the actual revenue for beep could be much larger if you offered the spots that we we are committed to offering um to low-income students to tuition paying families right so it's not as if we are we are taking like offering a scholarship we are we are living with get it I think no one no one's confused okay I just okay I it's just that there was this statement last time that the that the scholarship funds were in the operating budget which didn't make any sense because how could there be $480,000 in a scholarship account that none of us had ever seen so I mean never say never but it seemed surprising and in fact it it's not the case so that was good to clarify I agree thank you Mar yeah um so um I guess in in kind of wrapping this this up um so we we kind of have a recommendation and and then a away forward and so uh as Margaret and I talked uh earlier in the week and we're putting this information together um Margaret felt very strongly that having um a tuition within the range of 14 and 15,000 for this first launch year uh would would be what her recommendation would be um in part um we want to make sure that we continue to have you know high levels of of participation um and we want to have a year to adjust and see um you know what uh what kinds of changes may happen as we as we approach this new model and it also will give us time to um you know really do a little bit more research um on this very question that Mariah asked around you know what component of beep do we affiliate with this inclusion program versus uh What expenses and costs do we associate with um kind of a a a a a just preschool um only a more traditional preschool uh program so they'll give us some time to look at that um and so what we need to raise for Revenue in order to break even is 2,900,000 and if the fee for tuition next year again assuming 193 um um tuition paying participants would be about $15,408 we do have a fund balance of about two million so we can um tolerate um you know a a number that fluctuates next year but at least we would have a sense of uh what the interest is um in this you know full day program um and then in the fall when we look at all fees for FY 26 the following year we would have some real data um uh to help inform our decision if we need to do uh you know look at a different tuition rate for the following year um so our that's our recommendation to set the tuition fee for FY 25 at uh 15,000 um and then uh when we have data that's really specific to the program for fy2 use that data to um to make a more informed decision for a longer term um rate uh for the beat program so that's our recommendation thanks Susan before I call on Natalia and Cliff I just want to note a couple of things um which is that the 2,900 two $ 2,900,000 number yes that one there for the revolving fund doesn't include the charges for the leases which are in the classroom capacity line doesn't include the benefits so um so it's certainly true that the $15,000 number is under representing the costs of um the program um even beyond the special education or inclusion model um with that said I would just preface this all by saying when we talked about this all the fees two weeks ago we've said that um in addition to everything you said just now about having a sense of where the to where the enrollment ends up for the fall that we're also going to be um we're going to be revisiting all of the fees in the fall as we readjust this annual schedule so this is as we think about this as a transitional moment in time um there's there is I'm not going to call it an opportunity there is the ability to do things for this year that we don't necessarily need to say oh we're going to carry this Forward Forever More and this was this was a decision that should be locked in if we we can treat this number as a transitional number and then do the the additional evaluation for the six months from now around with more information um Natalia and then cliff and then Margaret but Margaret if you have to jump in to clarify like don't raise your hand if it's General comments wait in line but if it's like clarifications that will be important to people's questions then feel free to skip to to interact no I I I certainly appreciate want to give everyone a turn and so I will I will wait until then and I will take my hand down go ahead Natalia I mean I was gonna ask sort of what you just answered Mariah that is the right comparison just that revolving fund expense and from what I hear it's not if we really wanted to be tying like compar in the income and the cost it should be much more like a you know 3.9 or even 4.5 which I think then would be out of the question I worry a little bit about the messaging to parents of like it's you know this year and then we change it by like if it goes up by like another 5,000 you know I I think it is important if you really think that this might be an underestimate based on the that's you know my gut is that it's an underestimate if we're given everything that's going on with the school budg budget I would you know I think it's much better for parents to when you say six months Mariah the question is would we change it in six months so it would have to be the next year no it would not be till FY 26 we would be discussing it at the beginning of the budgeting cycle in fy2 for FY 26 that would start in on July one of the following year it would impact parents who started and were still going to be there but new parents maybe would be okay with like I just I just don't know how parents would feel about um anyways it just 15,000 to me given what we had said last week in terms of the number of hours that's increasing that would have been if it was a proportionate it was closer to 22,000 is that what we had said last week or 19,000 it was 175 which was relatively proportionate 175 was Rel I think it was like a 43% increase in tuition versus a 47% increase in hours so slightly slightly fewer dollars per hour was was okay so that would and less than they were paying for the extended day this year yeah okay so which was 19 you're right 19 was the extended day okay so I mean again I'm not I I don't want to be in a position to be negotiating live right now you know if this is the recommendation and everybody else agrees but it feels to me that it's an underestimate of what we actually need and I'd be a little concerned about that and the message you know that next year we can bring it up to 20 I I think once you've done it like this is the opportunity to really think about it carefully so that's just my comment thank you Cliff yeah uh you know last year there was a a pretty big study done and there are several presentations made and they were if for my perspective representations made in terms of um uh the override ask you know specifically for beep and you know I've got the charts from last year in front of me um and the analysis from last year we spent a lot of time on this and I'm kind of uh I'm kind of surprised at what I'm hearing because it is a change from what we heard last year in what the administration told the advisory committee and told um town meeting and frankly told the voters terms of what was going to happen with beep uh and and why and how things would be self-funding um hold on a second Cliff hold hold let me finish self funding for the increase you know to to move to full day and you know to have set and projected a $175,000 uh fee for for fy2 last year and now to essentially drop that um you know I just don't I I don't get it I I don't see how this dovetails with what people were told last year and I think there needs to be there has to be um a connection between what the administration the school committee approved last year and what you're talking about now because if if you know I if there isn't it's just it's it's it's really going to be a problem well I don't have the analysis but what I I do want to speak to is that the revolving fund is paying for every um for the increased cost of Staff associated with making this move that is not uh the increase is not showing up in the operating budget it's showing up here under this revolving fund expense I just want to be clear about that Susan aren't the special The increased hours for the special education teachers in the operating budget for for that yes have to right right by what I did is I um Margaret and I sat down and I looked at when we moved the expense up to a full day in terms of increasing Staffing um the Delta was $700 something, the revolving fund has been increased by by the 700,000 because the I didn't see a lot of information on on slides around be but I don't know really where to look but what I did see was this commitment that this increase in day would not um have a negative impact on the operating budget it it said it would have a zero impact in fact so I did allocate the increased cost um for Staffing to be able to go to that that the dollar amount off to um the revolving fund so 700,000 I want to just say Cliff though my recollection on last year and I don't have the slides in front of me but when Ruth did the calculations she was not assuming a 193 student paying paying tuition student tuition paying students she was assuming a range as I recall from as low as 177 if I'm recalling correctly it's been a year so my numbers might be off a little bit but she is not assuming these same numbers and I think it's reasonable to say well what happens if we get a lower number because if you if you were to assume 177 and you were to break and you were to divide the 292 by by um 177 you do get a number much closer to the 175 so I I just want to say that I sort of disagree at some level Cliff that there's been or I'm not sure you were saying this but if you were saying this I don't agree with the idea that there's been a misrepresentation of any of the core fundamental issues here which was that the tuition was going to increase um we forecast but did not say the exact number the 175 and it was based on on a range and that was the low of the low of the range and in and so to the extent that beep is going to full day I was as was promised at a zero cost to the taxes barring the special education bit which is small and which is a legal obligation um all of that is still the case so I guess I I just think the question I think it's a fair question what is the denominator that we're using is it 193 students is 177 you know do we really want to split hairs at this level or do we again take this year as a transitional year and say we're going to assume this and we're going to see what happens and we've got a $2 million revolving fund balance that lets us cushion some of these assumptions without feeling without feeling a tremendous pinch right away okay so so yes I agree with you that um Ruth had a range of uh potential enrollment and we were looking at what the break even enrollment would be based upon a $75,000 um uh tuition and sure to the extent that uh uh you've got higher demand and you're able to lower the cost of you know reach the same point you know that's that's math that's that is math that's you know I get that and and that's fine um but you know you're using a cushion as opposed well I have to go back and really think about what was said last year we're talking about what would be needed in order to cover the increase in costs um all I'm suggesting is that uh you know people are going to look at what they were told last year and it may not be clear to them um what your proposing and that there is no difference and you know I sus I I appreciate that you weren't here last year but there's a lot of data there's a lot of presentations that were given last year uh and while we don't have the Excel spreadsheets you know you can certainly take a look at the at at the printouts that Ruth did and and look at her numbers and try to compare them and try to migrate from what she did to what you're saying and essentially at the point can be made to people yeah some of the numbers are different but the end the outcome is not is not different that'll be fine but it needs to be done in a way that tracks last year or what people were told last spring less than a year ago to what you're saying now that's my point thank you yeah thanks um Margaret you had your hand up and then put it put it put it down so yes I sure did thanks thanks so much Maria and thank you Cliff for um for your input and for your your remembering of last year so a couple of things I would like to point out in general is that one of the things that Susan and I have talked about in the last couple of days is that we the district has never factored into the tuition cost the leases or the benefits When marelen Norman was here we had started some of those conversations but those things did not happen right like that was not part of the conversation about what the cost of beep was or even would be included in the to the cost for the tuition to run the program right so just so you're aware I don't I don't have any um objection to the things you're saying here to the true cost because I do believe that that's a really important thing to understand and feel like we've been trying to get to that conversation for the last couple of years um and so just putting that out there that we never calculated that even last year and looking at the numbers right and so Cliff point when you look at the numbers if you're trying to make a thoughtful move and you're trying to charge tax paying like but now tuition paying parents as well an amount that would be would be you know in align with what other districts do or in a way to make the program fiscally responsible um then I think this kind of move is would be would be agreeable and able to sustain the program my worry about going too high too quickly is that you will not have an enrollment and that that's fine that is totally within your purview I worry about that piece as I talked about the last time about that we are public school and trying to figure out long-term the fiscal balance of beep um what that means for the people who wish to pay tuition I'm not against paying um you know charging a fair rate I'm just trying to figure out how to thoughtfully do that in a way that doesn't impact the district fiscally or make any structural challenges and also allows the program to continue and then eventually make decisions as Dr given was saying about what do you want beep to look like the size of it all of that moving forward I think that those are conversations that need to happen but they have not been able to happen over the last five years thank you Margaret could I ask you a follow-up question about of course you can scholarships yes are the scholarships offered on a sliding scale or how do you how do you determine the scale who get scale the scale is determined by the district using the district's formula and they determine um like what that's what the scale is based on the the the federal or the State rates for low-income families and then it's either like you get 100% 50% or 75% and that comes directly from the formula that we use for everything else I thought that the district only had like 100% And 25% but I'm sure I must be out of the loop on that be sometimes it's 50% so I think it's a different formula but yeah I see so it's at like basically 2550 75 100% of whatever right of and you can look at you can look at the way the final financial aid is like you can look at the we could provide a chart that says how many families are at 100% how many families are at 50 how many families are at 75 that kind of thing that we can for you easily one more one more question for you are the when you say 40 scholarships are some of those 40 at 25% or do we have some larger number headcount of scholarships that equal the equivalent of 40 100% that's what I'm saying to we can provide for you the list of the people who apply for fin Aid right who's who's who qualified and then like what that percentage is we but off the top of your head last year when you did the 40 when you did the 40 scholarships is the number actually 40 scholarships or is it some larger number that when you take their fractional it's not more than 40 so it's 40 people so it's actually less than tuition assistance and some of that is 25% or a 50% or 75% right exactly right yes calculate that piece as well I see okay thank you so it's not like okay okay yeah yeah and so to some extent if we were to go above I'm going to say a number between 15,500 and 16,000 I'm throwing this number out there the 15,500 is a 3% contingency over the 15040 um and the 16,000 you know because again the scholarships this is really just something which allows people to still it would allow to have greater flexibility to offer scholarships and all everyone would still be eligible everyone who's currently eligible would be eligible for the same scholarships that they would be anyway like there's still a range of scholarships that can be offered we might be able to even offer an additional couple of scholarships to people although you have funds in the um revolving fund anyway so in theory you're not held back by the by the 40 number other than by Guidance of school committee to you in the in the past couple years we've said go up to 40 and so you have right did you use the rest so I think yes I agree but I also think you have to think about if you want to get to the 193 tuition paying seats right that matters so it matters then you can't like it is a balancing act it's it really a business model that you so if you're really counting on a revenue for a certain number of tuition paying seats then you have to think about whether or not you can offer that many more less tuition paying seats we're talking about full tuition I understand but yeah I think that there's well there's a range there and if some of these people are really 25% tuition then that's we're talking about maximum $3 $3500 $3,351 so um there are being this the seats are being paid for on a spectrum of prices it's not that it's you know all or nothing right is is your hand an old hand or a new hand Cliff if it's an old hand maybe you could take it down thanks I think I you know I think that there are definitely ways to um think moving forward about beep in terms of like um lots of different things you can consider right I I I definitely think that there are ways if you're thinking about generating revenue and you're thinking about that piece um there are conversations we can have about that as well um you know I think for myself I I just want to be then really upfront and clear to families when we tell them that this is the that we're charging them this tuition that we that this some of this tuition does pay for the the money for students to attend I don't think I have never clearly articulated that to anyone so that would be something I feel really strongly about that you're articulating that so that people understand that and that this is that this is a decision of the district but that tuition paying families are covering that cost um for for the program um so I just I think that's I don't quite understand why it's a big deal this year and wasn't before and also I'm why it's it feels like it's being presented as a negative where I see it as a community positive okay I don't think it's negative can I true is true that we're doing that if in fact their tuition is not covering the building costs and everything else like yes we might be subsidizing the the people who are getting who are paying less but but is it true that their tuition is actually is what's subsidizing it or that it's some other like I I I'm kind of getting confused because of the other comment that bill buildings and other expenses aren't inits so to tell parents that you're actually paying for someone else when in fact everybody is to some extent being subitize some more than others I think it's misleading and I I would I would I mean unless I'm wrong in that interpretation well like I said to you before we've never again never factored in for in thinking about the T the charge for tuition those other things that are on the list in terms of benefit I'm fine I'm just saying that it would be a misrepresentation to say that this tuition that they're paying is actually subsidizing other families when in fact it's subsidizing a whole bunch of people are being subsidized right no I totally agree with you I mean I just think I from my own perspective just thinking about that I think it's just important to understand again the conversation we've been trying to Happ for the last few years about what does beep cost and what do you and what size of beep do you need to want or need to have and then what tuition does that cost for families um so I hear what you're saying Margaret about some of this but I also feel somewhat strongly that we should be um building in some small contingency not a very large contingency but a small contingency um and I can't imagine most parents wouldn't understand the idea of having actual Cost Plus a couple of percent just to help ensure program stability um I also reflect on what Natalia said if if um if we're making a change this is the year somewhat to make changes to make at least large steps and changes and while we don't want to um make it so large to your point Margaret that it really dissuades people from attending we also I would I would think that people would not want to have a series of um Betsy I see that David's in the attendees um to me it would make sense to not have a series of years in which we are making large changes I think it's hard for people to go through that um so um Sarah go ahead yes I had done I had wanted to underline that point too so that's great and I think we've already covered most of what I wanted to say before um and one way of thinking about how to get out the message early enough so that parents feel like they're not uh that they have information before they have to make decisions is to look at when the private schools um you know do their process right so have we aligned ourselves with the rest of the um schools in terms of when people get in yes like people have already been accepted to beep and are making deposits for next year we aligned ourselves with that process a long time ago and so our our date is the same as the private school date great Margaret just on that note have you do you have any sense that deposits are down this year or are they no I think in some places they're doing really well like at Driscoll at Ridley at at Hayes at rle like they are is there anywhere there aren't is it I Lynch and partam we are struggling because we don't have the extended day and that's why had made that proposal to offer a beep extended day at least at Lynch so that we could support those 10 families that lost the schools for children and keep them in the program um but we'll have a better sense like you know I I would imagine once you said a tuition weight that you know we express with parents it might be between between 14 and 15,000 if it's not that in some parents B I don't know I don't think that would happen but it could I suppose um it's a complicated it's a complicated Matrix the be program and that's why I'm really really hopeful that we can have a different process moving forward that is aligned with a fall conversation and not with the enrollment period and with a real understanding it'll be so much better yeah yeah and for you and you know and as I told and I as I expressed I I really can't thank Dr given and and and um Diane Johnson enough for the amount of energy that they put into this because it is a tremendous amount of work to understand this program that is very very large and has many um different like different funding sources and different needs and I don't want to ever misre represent anything um and I just think getting a better understanding of what beep is is really important for the district for the town for everybody um and and as I said to to Dr Giller and to Dr given like I feel very and I think I told you all this last week like you know managing a multi-million dollar like part of a program within a public school system is a lot to think about and so you want to be really careful about how you do that to to Sarah's point and to to Natalia's point about the messaging and the conversations you're having with families because we are a public school system as well thanks Margaret yeah y i I just want to Second your thanks of them and and our thanks of you for um and your team for making beep happen it's really such a gem no I know that and and I I I want to appreciate the school committee and the town who I really do think moving to a school day program will stabilize the program long term long term I do think that it's the way that all districts are going if you look at the news and you look at districts around us um and I'm just I I'm probably more mindful of cost than some people are um just because that's my upbringing so sorry if that impacts my thinking sometimes in a ways it might not for other people and I never want anyone to feel like we said something that wasn't true because I really don't feel that way I feel like all the conversations we had last year were our best efforts to look at what was at the current situation and what it might be for the future I agree with that I am also a little surprised that you were telling parents between 14 and 15,000 given the conversations last you know and I I reached out to everybody I met with Susan I met with Diane we looked at the numbers we tried to figure out what would be a a cost that we could maintain the program and that it would be a cost that would be acceptable to parents so that piece is definitely on me and if and I did reach out to everybody and that's where we sit then that's where we sit thanks Margaret does the committee um want to consider recommendations for the beep number I throughout 155 there's the number here of 15,40 if either one of you want to make a recommend or make a a a motion we can consider it oh I would just like to say and to I think if you want to go with 155 to make a cushion or a little bit more than that I I I think that's acceptable and fair um in terms of what we talk what the cost will actually be and to all of your points I think a more thorough conversation about moving like what that looks like moving forward and to make a built-in plan for what that looks like for the next three or four years for families to understand that is super important thanks Margaret and it is really it's been great because I I think it was last year or the year before you early in the year you presented the Strategic plan for beep and we've really been sort of I shouldn't say we I give all the credit to you you've been moving through and checking off the boxes and making things I give all the credit to all of you for really putting up with the with the with that with what this does what like the the changes and the changes super hard and moving something like this forward is a lot and it it is a kind of bold and like big move and I I credit you all for having that vision and um and for and for supporting that moving forward and I really want to be mindful that we are doing this in a way that's fiscally responsible for the town and not causing any structural challenges at all um so that that being said I don't I don't I don't I don't want to put you all in any awkward position either so I Mar good time to make a motion um for beep tuition to be at 155 Natalie are you seconding yeah I'll second okay Sarah how do you vote Yes Natalia yes and I will vote Yes as well um Margaret go Ahad hang go ahead natal go ahead just ask does this have to go are we enough of a committee or does this have to go so that was our vote to recommend it to full school committee and we're and my goal is that we we're not going to re-review the document that we saw last week every this was the only area of contention or two weeks ago this was the only area I won't say of contention area of further discussion is the way I would describe it um and so if the subcommittee is willing to move to recommend the entire package now including this um number we just voted that also includes the unchanged building user fees from last year then basically we would we would make a motion to recommend to full school committee the building and user fees um as written last two weeks ago with this $15,500 inclusion do we have a motion first that is that Natalia making the motion when she nods yes okay Sarah do you second okay Sarah how do you vote Yes Natalia yes and I vote Yes as well um is that the end of the agenda that's the end of the agenda right okay um May I just say something quick of course I just wanted to thank you all for all your hard work I I I do know how hard your work is um and it's often a thankless thing sometimes although it brings a lot of personal gain and joy when you can support uh families and children the way that the school committee and the administration does there is no there's no money value that you can put on that um and this work is so important to me personally and I know to many of you as well that I will do everything in my power to ensure that the program is successful that we are not um fiscally irresponsible for the town and that we Pro produce the most high quality Early Childhood Program in the Commonwealth that is my that is my personal goal and I know that is on the goal for all of you as well and I would just like to also say that today happens to be my birthday happy birthday I I celebrating my birthday today um and um thank you for having this meeting on my birthday and for moving forward in a positive way only a former School Committee Member could be grateful that this is happening no I mean when I say that this this work is my life's work and as I as I as I enter this back end of my of my life and think about like the next 10 years and what that's going to look like for me um whether and hopefully that will be here in the public schools of Brooklyn and and and beep if that's how it works out um I know that the partnership is really important and keeping those things moving transparent and open to the community's important well so I just thank you all for the work you do and whatever I can do to be supportive and helpful I really want to be Margaret just on that note if we can put a pin in which I'm sure we'll do this anyway but I'm just going to say it out loud for when we come back in the fall to look at fees to get some of this the information right on enrollment how many were at 25% 50% Etc I and I will I will actually get that together for you and send it along just so you have it for your for your information great and I will also keep you update on the enrollment yeah and I will probably come back to you about the whole extended day thing I know today was a lot and I thought we have we've already voted that it's in the packet that got voted that we just referred to you're talking about the I don't remember how it's like the 675 a month or whatever it was extended day that was in the packet that got voted okay that's great so then I can move ahead with that and um I like I said anything I can do you know I'm here to support you and to support Dr Giller Dr given um Diane Johnson and the whole team and Margaret thank you happy birthday thank you so much I hope you go have fun now yes my husband came home and more fun than this more fun no this is important to me so thank you so much thanks thank you so much um well with that unless anyone else has any further comments I think we can wrap up 24 minutes early thanks going once going twice have a wonderful evening thanks everybody by