##VIDEO ID:eBL1ygVMXd0## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening I'm Bernard Green chair of the brook line select board and this is the a special meeting actually of the select board for November 21st 2024 uh let's start off with any announcements or comments from see none uh let's move on to public comment TIY you want to yeah read the rules to our last audience here thank you for joining us for public comment this is an opportunity for us to hear your perspective on the issues in Brookline that matter to you each person speaking tonight is limited to three minutes you don't need to use the entire time but you may as you like what one 15 minutes has been me there is an opportunity at the conclusion of the select board's business for additional comments members of the public sometimes raise questions during public comments we may be able to provide a quick answer to a question but are more likely to work with staff to get a more thorough answer and respond over email we'll let you know when you have 30 seconds remaining and when your time is up please conclude your remarks at that time if you have more to say you're welcome to send an email to board members expressing your thoughts in Greater detail any person wishing to speak must begin their comment by identifying themselves with their full name and either their procine precinct number or street address we did not have any speakers sign up in advance uh is there anyone in the room who wishes to speak during public comment at this time or online if so please raise your hands using raise the hand feacher it looks like no one is indicating their desire to speak okay let's uh move on to our miscellaneous calendar first item is the minutes of November 12 20124 any corrections to those minutes saying now I'm Mo approval of the minute of November 12 2024 all in favor by saying I General I Mike Simon hi Paul lawren hi and Sher but next we have two items uh contract is underived equ company for the chiller hbac system at the senior center and an appropriation transfer uh in uh black board's office so any questions or comments about those and we approval of either B and C or 3B and 3 C on favor hi Mar hi Paul laen hi and Sher next our calendar ABD scholarship question of all regarding the off Town counsil to file spr complaint in support to modify the ab scholarship eligibility conditions to increase possible recipient who's gonna are you going to present that or Susan Harris asso the discussion we else you question okay any questions from the board I have one question um so you mentioned that it's hard to know exactly what the paramin is would be because it's process or come back to us when decide um that that can be up um we've left the motion as flexible to give us different General thoughts on that but we're happy to come back to you if' like think once once it do you want more than just notied really school committee and that be M okay so all in favor of uh authorizing the by say John hi um hi Paul Warren hi chair vot five next offer reallocation question of approving the final slate of American Rescue plan act funding allocations that's presented by sta so you can do that Charlie sure um thank you chair um I'm Charles Charles young I'm the town's assist Town Administrator for finance uh I'm here tonight to present to you what we are calling the final State Mar allocation the reason we're calling it that is asking you to vote an onnibus table that has the final budget as we as we are predicting it will be for all 130 plus projects we have uh for ARA uh the uh the issue we are faced with is that while we have two more years until December 2026 to spend all of our arpa funds uh the the federal government has issued a new a different deadline this December 31st which is called the obligation deadline obligation here means putting things under contract or putting them in purchase doesn't mean we have to spend them by that time but uh but it means that we're on a very short timeline to get these things uh we've had some projects turn back money uh so we're you know in accordance with the memo we're asking you to newly allocate $667,500 that were turned back from different projects that either weren't going to make the timelines that were established or weren't going to be completed at all um and so the the allocations break breakdown as follows uh first we're asking for 275,000 to be allocated to departmental Vehicles this is for DPW D truck a police cruiser a fire admin vehicle a building department staff vehicle uh these are ideal targets for ARA this late in the spending timeline because they're very easy for us to oper so in other words the next six weeks we'll be able to get these under contract so that they can be spent by the dead um the uh the next uh allocations are $225,400 for school classroom technology equipment $107,000 for police uniforms and equipment and $60,000 for fire and there are descriptions of each of those in the that's circulated but I'm happy to answer any questions you might have and I believe Tyler is on Zoom if you would like to add oh yes I'm also here thank you Charlie uh thanks Charlie so two quick questions the electric I assume going to be elected so we we feasible um the town policy is we feasible that dump truck we won't be able to purchase as I'm not even sure they make a high for dump truck uh the police scuer if you know if the board wishes they all free to be U electric uh the police cruiser could be the fire admin vehicle those are also difficult to to have be an e just due to the just due to the nature of the size of those Vehicles they're usually SUVs uh but we can we can communicate that to the fire dep if that's people will definitely yeah we do yeah it's I don't think I don't think the fire department has an electric um staff vehicle yet uh but we can certainly work with the chief on that for this yeah I just I'd like the minister that these were electric if at all possible don't and then my uh my second question related to the school equipment there classrooms um and we've had ongoing discussion about the mini CIP for uh for the schools which is related to deferred maintenance and such um if this if we didn't do this we would color classroom technology is budgeted for for the scho so these are um I've been working with f on this they've done an inventory over this summer the equipment was um originally prus part of building renovation there was no plan for a refreshment SP so she um was growing concerned because there was no um funding identified uh to replace the vehicle the vehicle equipment and she was worried that there would be some failures that would happen that ultimately um you know would be pretty serious because all of the equipment is around the same age um so typically this would be something that the schools would be funding and operating but we have in the past had major I project request related to technology so I would imagine that if they couldn't absorb it in their operating budget they would be requesting a cap so the so the pier yeah the equipment I assume that's going to be be Tech knowled suppity is coming is funded from Project from the project um and we would need to make sure yes they need to plan for a technology so we put all all of our um computer leases are we we lease our computers because that forces us to actually build in a refreshment and I don't believe they any other questions um I I admit that I going over the numbers I'm having a little trouble getting my head around a couple of questions uh at this point are there unexpended monies that are going to have to be turned back so we have until December 2026 to spend so what that means is that today we have to you know the deadline was today yes be a lot of we have two more years with all of our subian and our to par now if we didn't do this vote today um and a month and a half went by if we didn't um vote you know these allocations and then somehow encumber These funds then this money would have to be turned we need to the their stipulation is we really in the last year this crucial point the stipulation is that it gets into an encumbrance or a contract purchase order or a contract by this December 30 so right now Bernard sorry joh uh the answer is no well I don't I'll give so uh so the answer is no right now we're not projecting funds to be turned back you know if if it does happen in the end right now looking at the project list that some funds are turned back it would be hundreds or below thousand Trail off from sub recipient projects that finish the budget right now we're not projecting the ter contract fa that's the that's the key question so Tyler can jump in but uh but there are um stipulations in the the the federal rules for ARA that say if a contractor fails to fulfill their contract you can take essentially the same scope and contract and that is basically the only situation after this December 31st where we're allowed to change how we've allocated our fund site uh otherwise all the allocations have to sort of um so um if people go down the list and I urge that they do um from the spreadsheet you know one of the things that kind of jumps off the page is um there's any number of um items and some of them were under the town's control and some of them were under the control of nonprofits in the community but there's any number of them that are turning back substantial amounts of money I mean are turning are unspent um substantial amounts of money um and I mean I'm just going to pick one off the page I won't mention the organization but um $477,000 um reduced budget um for for that you know quation under their arant um I'm thinking have sort of learned some lessons from this firsttime experience as to how to gauge um the ability of um not only our own departments but also organizations so so Charlie I can I can jump here in here on this one so with that reduction that you're talking about it is a little confusing how we're displaying this on the sheet but if you go to the last page um the Brookline Center I think that's the one you're talking about John that is actually that was a partial reimbursement from Nori County so we show those as a deduction but I we have the note on the side that will either say full or it'll say reallocation reimbursement from the county so then we're just making those adjustments in the column as so and shifting them downward but as far as oh as as far as the sub recipients go we have not had any turn backs and it does not we're not expecting any turn backs either so yeah just clarify the reason that the way that's shown the reason it's shown that way is we want you to vote a slate that has the final Town allocation in the so if the Nori county is paying for it we moved it to a separate table on the last page just for the nor County okay but if you have any questions about any projects on here that were reduced like to happy to jump in followup question um is Nori County then in charge of tracking um the the spending of the of that money those monies and and the determination is to whether unspent monies need to be return so yeah essentially norford county is responsible for their own a lot and we are we are like a subrecipient nor so we we're reporting to Nori the same way our subrecipients are reporting to they they have their their their funds the way that those were expended will be audited separately from ours but but we have do contract for the nor County correct absolutely so the way that it's worked is those are those are essentially Reapers so we we enter into a contract we spended money and then we submitted to north town for Reapers here and so uh one I so all right now now have a clear picture the fact that there has not been a lot of unus on not by okay so um now now we s of take the other sort of exe which is they're all saying that they're all going to be able to spend all the money right at this point um and maybe they will be able to spend all the money um but is is any auditing done to sort of look at um well yeah they spent the money but hey what did they spend it on how does that compare to what they said they were going to spend it on and by some measure did they actually produce anything as a result of spending that money you know if they said this expenditure of money is going to help create this this this and this or improve this this this and this there going to be any look at whether that was accomplished by the organizations Tyler do you want to jump in on that one since you've been handling the quarterly reporting with all the subrecipients yes so we do provide a level of oversight with the subrecipient but um they're subject to audit just like us it's it's highlighted in our town subrecipient agreements and we also make sure that they are abiding by the same record retention schedule that we are um that's also the advice when I have these pre-award meetings with each of the subrecipients to nonprofits to tell them and remind them of that as well that we still have oversight we still need to see invoices is one of the goals which may alleviate or it may answer your question one of the goals moving into next calendar year is to have these quarterly reports published alongside this list which will be published um hopefully after this meeting or tomorrow but the accordly reports we're we're planning on trying to get these online so that anyone can also see the same invoices payment as long as there's no personal information for beneficiaries in there which we would redact um but as far as the oversight piece goes we still are looking at their expenses and we're reporting those out they have the same quarterly repor reporting requirements to us that we have to the treasury and to Nori County so we're doing our due diligence to make sure that we're getting that information uh thank you good questions John um the so the amount of money that's remaining um the we have requirements for ourselves that we have to come with the money right we committed it I assume that means you have a contract or some proof with the money are we requiring the same thing with the subps I see you know there's an organization here they get almost a million dollars uh that is remaining have they demonstrated to us that they have committed the money and have contract signed or uh at a and if not are we going to implement something that says by this date if you don't have this money encumbered we're toing that so great question great question Paul I'm happy to answer but I think Tyler has maybe a better answer okay so to this piece we our our subrecipient agreements I'm going to point back to that they're robust enough to still have those requirements as well and when they're providing reporting I will I'll call out Brookline Housing Authority for one um we have a $6 million project with them for Capital Improvements to eont and Trust apartments and we we're still having them provide us the information when they're putting out a request for proposal they're going through procurement requirements we're actually getting their Awards looking looking at their bids as well or actually looking at their bid responses I should say um so we're still we're we're looking at every piece because we still we want them to be able to spend that money down and the the piece here is after the 31st if there is a clawback from a subrecipient it that does go back to the treasury which isn't to raise alarm Bells but it's to say that we can't re reclaim the money and then redisperse it um so I would just like to add on so thank um what I would add and it helps answer John PRI question too which is that Tyler and Nicole are and I have been meeting with subian over the summer and over the past several months to get them up to date on their quarterly reports to understand their spending timelines and we have had no concerns among the few of us and in our office about any of the subii not being able to keep those spending Ben we were prepared um just a few months ago Chaz and I were crafting messages that said Hey listen if you can't get demonstrate XY andz to us to pull back money from a few of these organizations we were glad that we didn't have to do that we didn't feel like we needed to do that where you're seeing a million dollars left they are still on track to spend that at the rate that they had told us they would spend um I appreciate that you said as if they demonstrated XYZ what is XY right so like Tyler was saying um they're they're up to date on their current quarterly reports telling us exactly what they've spent what's under contract and that they they have met their existing so essentially in their subian agreement in their proposal met the timeline that they propos for spending money person so it's essentially where we we have you know nobody is off track or behind on their ability to spend this down by the6 and in fact many projects need need that time next two years to actually get to completion um many of our Town Projects won't be completed by this success need additional um you know I appreciate the question I think it is something to be absolutely um laser focused on you know making sure that our subrecipients we have less control over what they're doing versus what town depart do uh but to this point we haven't had any concerns with any of our subs not meeting their Tim not meeting the deadlines they set forth in their proposal for their project uh so hopefully that answers the questiones but we're not but we're not requiring to have give us a signed contract that that says the money is going to be spent oh no we are so if they they need to hire a someone to go reconstruct the building with are we we asking them to have signed contracts yes we're we're actually as Tyler said we're asking them for the RFP or the bid we're asking them for the bid responses we're asking them for the award letter and we're asking them for essentially every piece of documentation along the way and I I want to really pick back up on uh Charlie's point as well one of the things too with why most most of our subrecipients are on track to be spent down by calendar year uh 26 is something that the town is dealing with that subrecipients are not subject to uh most of our subrecipients actually not most all of our sub recipients are not subject to the same procurement requirements from the state that the town is which have shown in most cases to actually be way more rigorous than the federal requirements so it does give subrecipients a little bit more latitude in terms of being able to move money around much quicker than the town so I I just want to highlight that point as well John um I'm I'm very grateful for the answers but I'm having a hard time squaring a couple of things that said so far um because on the one hand if I understood correctly uh nobody has had to turn anything back and everyone is still budgeted for spending all of the money that they originally budgeted to spend but then I see a million doll item that says cancelled um on the spreadsheet and I see the utility um item which were quite familiar with that we got a lot of discussion of this and my understanding from the last discussion we had of this is that we're never going to be able to spend the um some 500,000 plus of the money that is set aside for utility help for utility customers so why would that still be carry because the cancel project was never awarded as far as if it's the project I'm thinking that you're identified never so that was not we don't consider that a turn back didn't end up yeah so ums to uh what was the other half well the utility right so the utility debt um project has a small balance in it because the expenditures you're seeing here as of we ran into it some red tape over the summer getting our green never Source finalized just took a long time to get done um it's done we're we're cutting the check to them so the next version of this table like next quarter we'll have that spent down uh if you look we transferred money out of the utility debt in the adjustments column we transferred money out in round three to support or maybe round two to support other projects um so that has been reduced and the current budget should read something like 40,000 which is the remaining amount kind a check okay um and that getting back to the million that was canell right um was that realated to other yes allocated are there any other examples like that um okay so to be clear right so we're agre we're allocating $600,000 tonight so there are some other turn backs uh the main turnback that we're seeing is for harpa personnel so um earlier this year we heard from the federal government that we were no longer going to be able to cover any Personnel except for Grant Administration first after this December 31st because you can't obligate personel the ARG um and so um we have found ways to ship and move those folks around except for one position that will need to be funded in FY 26 or it's currently planned to be funded in FY 26 um but $600,000 from all of those different positions that were initially plan to be funded through arug for the next two years is being turned back and there are other turn backs too um there was funding for language access that wasn't needed because we hired a position to the override the library bookmobile was not able to they weren't able to find a vehicle in time to obligate the the expense by next month um the COA van is being funded by a safe Grant and the disparity study finished well under budget a lower cost so all of those funds are turn have been turned back or that's what we're asking we're asking to finally okay thank any other question yes have a question about the county reimbursements for Town and Public School Employees so is that also a turn back of source it's given that there a reimbursement do that ceg so great question um what you probably see there that we initially budgeted some amount of money for it and the adjustment brings it down because we submitted it to nor County so it appears you may not have the table in front of you it's on it's on the P um it appears on a bottom table specific to North County so uh in other words for for us it's a net zero right we essentially expended the money in their pay back it's not included in the final budg that's yeah May so um s a quick Charli but it caught my attention uh Grant funded positions off the funded positions that going to need to transition right do we know how many positions there only one position that's going to transition to the town budget and and how many how many positions are going to continue to be funded through Tyler and the two Grant two Grant Administration I to say that million was the premium and so that that was you know that was allocated a while ago and then when the county agreed to pick up that a long process between us the count do that um that came off our books books but what you're seeing here is not we're asking you to be allocate all tonight some of this you reallocated in round three some of it you reallocated in the summer and 35 the memo talks about what's new but the reason why we want you to vote this final slate is to just be sure that you have one single document that is all are ARA projects we don't have to go looking through MOS from the summer spring so forth do the money Trail where we want this as our B and then we're able to say this is what the board go the project this how much okay um any other question okay then I move approval of uh the offer real allocation as we discussed all in favor please indicate by saying I John hi Paul Warren hi David hi and Sh yeah just say thank you people thank thank you all okay next we have oh tax classification and the introduction of our newor I'd actually like to do a little little introduction so good evening director clients and we have our entire Board of assessors here so in addition to Harold Peterson and Mark maer who the board knows very well and we're fortunate to have F here in general we also have our brand new Chief assessor who began who was in his third week and so this is a big ask of him in the third week to do the tax classification hearing and um do the presentation but we're very fortunate uh it happen thatan he comes with u several years of great experience of associ Massachusetts it's a it's a uh I like to kind of think of it as a monkhood sometimes or in that it's a very specializ of set of information and skills um but that comes to us very fortunate so um the only other thing I want to mention and Tech will be giving the presentation they're both here all four of us if they answer questions um the only other thing I want to mention is obviously normally we have this presentation uh on the screen we don't really have a very good screen here however Tiffany is um running the slides for those at home for those of you who have your laptops you can do it and then also um have the paper print us so hopefully we can relatively seriously so but with that I'll turn to Ted and thank you linol privilege to be here by you guys today I wanted to just mention rashed 35 years in this count and uh you know definitely very helpful person that have while to talk so I want to thank him but he retired from the yeah him re so dret and uh Mr major and I just wanted to prepare for you the tax specification hearing for fiscal year 25 um the purpose of the hearing is to establish a residential factor that that ships the burden of the tax rate to the commercial class from the residential absence doing that would be one tax rate so it kind of puts more of the burden of Taxation on the commcial class which is very typical for cities and towns in Massachusetts the second part is to really shift that burden from the U the residents who live own and occupy their residential property to uh those that don't in the residential class so that would be the adoption of residential exemption the percentage we want to do within the residential exemption just as a reminder uh last year the select board decided to do the maximum shift of the levy for 1.75 Shi and the select board uh decided to do a 20% presidential so we go on the next page just want to go through the values uh from this p evaluation year with a lean date of 1124 so this is the fair cash value of properties in Brooklyn as of that lean date on the 1st of January we saw a valuation increase Residential Properties of 3.8% we saw commercial values increased by 2.4% and personal property increased by about 13.8% that was mostly due to new equipment by instar and National gr as they relate more pipelines and P bottom of the page you can see the average value change so that residential class single families were up about 4% fondos recovered Contin recover through Co they're up 2.6% two and three families based on our evaluations were flat and apartments were up 10% that is as rents are still increasing and vacancy rates are going down further than they were last year commercial was up 6.7% over last year value change going on to the next page uh growth which is a very important part of our Levy and a very important part of our res scream for the city uh our single family permits brought in $900,000 in growth our residential Condominiums which are generally condominium established new grow two family conversion about 315,000 um our apartment class which includes um our the newb brookl assisted living and the 250 unit parment Building and park village majority of that $1.3 million in grow a commercial is down around 90,000 in personal property again with the move pipelines onto its poles uh then inar National Grid about uh just under just over half million dollars in GR so our total growth to the city town so to that was 3 yeah I mess up too 3 just under 3.2 million so how does that relate to the levy uh massachus General law states would take through last year's Levy which is 2828 Million by state law we're allowed to add on from prop two and a half two and a half% of that ly which is $7 million new growth comes on at 3.1 our override for year two of a three-year override that's 2.8 million getting us to a maximum Levy of 295 million and then with our dead exclusions that we voted for the high school the dri school school the Ridley School Fier school and the fire station that gets our total L the amount we can collected tax dollars from book line taxpayers uh right at 300 18 million me ask a question clarify something uh 2 and a half% is not something we do it's something the state puts on our L and that makes Town minor point but yeah need to know that that you know half does certain things beyond our so we we do have an I mean we would have the option to not two and a half but it's just very typical in probably all towns we could choose not do it uh if I may you know right so proposition the two and a half% increase in the total ly is the allowable but to be clear right the the the how meeting appropriates what what the amount is that's needed to to R the vast majority of so it's what now be appropri and um they take the 282 88,000 and the maximum level of L 295 990 we're seeing about 4.6% more less increase in available funds and leaving just going back to the previous chart on fy2 new grow I see that commercial sort of tales of comparisons to the other classes you mentioned for instance that for multif family the 1.3 million was primarily from hanock Village do we know from West in the 90,000 grow poal uh I know the finishing the hotel with thein the front page pack the iris Hotel finished this year and I can get you the other one can we go back to the average value change so um single family condos change increased 2% residential condos six FL those those are all kind of residential value based on valuation based on right apartments are based on Revenue right so essentially the apartments are increasing their their value because their income has increased so right this is a very I want to make up this is a very important point and when we start getting into a discussion about how we're shipping money around in residential exension um single family homeowners resident condos to families they typically don't have access to that value not cash flows right it's just value they had they need to tap into it by selling it or taking out some sort of mortgage second mortgage that into them value the apartments they're actually getting Revenue it's income uh so they get immediate access to to those funds it's it's I think that's it's just a very important point it also commerci 6.7% those are Income now of course there Poss but when we get back to the residential exemption I really want us to focus on that the difference between growth because an asset is increasing in value because because of Real Estate and the apartment valuation increasing because they're charging for more rent right they're inflating they're increasing um and when we start shifting when we we're not maximizing the residential exemption increasing it we're we're we're giving money back to the apartment owners that are making significant revenue and they never credit the money back to the renters you don't see a rent decrease $100 because we $50 a month because because you know there was a ship over to to the single family so I just I just want to make that point I think it's really important point you start talking about residential tax exemption right um there's actually something else that that um I think it do at least a little bit in fact that increasing value um the rental ones the rental commercial commercial right they're eligible eligible for suest that some unit that formally [Music] owner so the number the number of eligible Parcels in 2022 for the resident retion was 1071 it's down to4 it's down to 9,83 so my assumption is is going to shift from owner occupied to rent is that a fear yeah so just the apartments like if you have a 250 unit apartment building it's one parel yeah yeah um but yes looking at that would mean there's probably more um three families that are being rented possibly uh possibly more single families that are being rented about 79% at owner occupied single families so I have to go back to the data but it could be a number of things that okay you theal part owner owner occupied units yeah on page three from 9 to 932 yeah yeah and this second year in AOW maybe maybe other I sorry go ahead um well it's point last night we had a lot of discussions about investors buying properties EV there's but it also as that chip occurs it increases the amount of value on the on the commercial side on the invest on res there's a small trip there as well the 10% increase in value [Music] in large commercial is little bit gonna go back to page 10 just to walk through the residential exemption we don't back yeah I do want to say the staff that I've served the first three weeks are awesome at betting all residential so there's definitely compliance I'm not maybe part of why it's going down but uh yeah for the residential exemption we just take all the residential value this is on page 10 yeah slide 10 uh total residential parel count 17,26 division problems we have the average residential value just over 1.7 million if we were to select a 20% residential Factor we're exempting $346,500 bottom there at that 20% that would mean uh based on a full shift the maximum allowable shift in the classification it would give us a $104 tax rate so that savings to your residential uh probably over 347 so the value of the residential exemp be $3,479 that compared last over the years C about $100 over the last year yeah so then getting to the graphs and kind of explaining uh the different options the median tax change median taxpayer would see each of these classifications so a single family under a maximum shift of the levy and a 20% residential exemption would see about 7.4% increase in their tax B uh just as a side like most of that is took the override of the debt exclusion that's kind of what is also contribut to that I that's point the pass raised um the condos are going to see about a 4.8% tax change uh the two and three families are you know certainly lower than that and the apartment class your point U number it's about a 10% increase on the tax change year over year skipping ahead and just you kind of look at the next few slides get like the percent so like I said single family 79% occupied honders are 52% are occupied you can see all the percentage immediate tax changes uh our apartments are again only about 4% on our occupied see 10% increase in tax and the commercial will not be affected by the residential exemption would be a 4.8% changeing tax so kind of bringing it to this uh slide 16 um it just gives you the option not to shift to the max so again shifting to the max is a 1.74 n that's rounding to the tax rate uh that gives you a $104 C rate and a $16 86 C rate the change in tax rates at the bottom of the page is basically the same 2.76 2.74 so each classification of property whether it's commercial industrial personal property or it's residential is getting that 2.76% change in the tax rate uh going down the line you can see the effect of not going to the max it picks up by a penny the the residential rate tax rate while dropping uh the CIP which is commercial industrial personal property down about 10 cents on the tax rate for every 1% on the factor that you're not maximizing um just going on to the next page I'm just giving you that if you went to 19% of the of the resident exemptions if you lowered it a little bit it would take the apartment median tax change down to 9 point 5% while putting the condos from about a 4 and a half% change up to an 8% medium tax sh so just that slight 1% reduction in the residential exemptions would again change the Hondo median tax up about 4% before to8 and only brought the apartments about a half percent there I give all the numbers in the options for that um and then I did just want to do like you know just a direct comparison of charts on page 22 or slide 22 it just gives you I know it's a little difficult to read but you can see just that effect of going that 1% down it does slightly lower the apartment median tax but you increase the single family tax uh 21 of a percentage point of fondos go from about 4.8 to to 8% um alternatively if you went to 21% the other way on the next slide 23 you're going to increase apartment median tax change up to just under 11% and the condos would go to about one and a half on tax change so I tried to give you like two options either way the way you went last year 19 and 21 um and you know obviously on the last page of the presentation you can see the effect of that like I said not maximizing that shift every sort of one% you don't maximize it it kind of ticks it up 1% on a tax rate of the residential and it draws it down on the on the commercial industrial property any uh any questions on those if we go back to slide number 12 I understand or I think I understand applying sort of black formulas to each class EXC my book is not not accurate I'm just curious why three family homes have such a lower medium tax change percentage compared to I would almost think logically be yeah so we saw three family valuations flat this year that's basically why um so the think of it is everyone else kind of went up with value they didn't when Pro two and a half comes in basically they're not seeing the value change so their tax rate has to kind of not go off to from a policy perspective we look at SHI is that something that we want to address or what do other members think in terms of how we want to shipal the the ship we don't we don't it's not a fine grain ship right that's the problem yeah right so so the the only shift that so you can't shift for example between two family Ms in the the the the you know the the only two options in this in this context are what amount is being shifted from residential to commercial industrial personal property and then how much what percent the residential exemption is but the residential exemption right so the total dollar is the same from a two family to treatment right so if the value is flat for three families and goes up for two for two families and one family and single family homes then you know by definition those tax rates will go up higher than the three you see what I'm saying yeah Consolidated I'm trying to consolidate these three Y and the top one 20% the middle one 19 so with the 19% that would be the represent the smallest increase because that's the lowest number in tax increase for residents that that's the rate without the residential exemption right when you lower the residential [Music] exemption when you ra the for doesn't Happ yeah that's what that's that's why I looking at this and say wait a minut have yeah okay yeah the residential exemption ships it to nonr have we ever um looked at 22% sorry just to correct one figure the residential exemption is a shift of the residential class oh I'm sorry yeah that's okay it's okay I just the overall Shi yeah so I I think it sh it's important from my perspective I think it's important to think of that first you decide the the commercial industrial personal property ship if you are if the board decides to do that if so by then here's the total residential then that's option number two right here the total residential how much is being shifted between those those um parts being occupied the owner and [Music] those the question I have it's not clear I'll have we ever looked at 22% as a yeah that is that so I have yeah so we have we have many many iterations but we didn't want to overwhelm you yeah typically what we do things you want to see next week we'll bring them back so that you can see different scenarios yeah but we haven't well we're not meeting the next time form totally it'll drop the condo down like below the med tax last year and it put up the apartment to above 11% that change so that I can get the exact numbers for you but Dro it on to Z push the apartment up so one thing I do want to point out is that when we um if we shift more of the burden to investment own Department that burden gets picked up by theend they're so so this is this is my question this is what I'm wrestling with that that the commercial large commercial rental properties have been cranking up the because it's market demand right Supply demand they're making a ton of money right we've got a tour so any any they're charging quite a bit of rent beautiful place yeah but charging a lot of rent that's income right um and I you know I'd like to understand that you maybe and I actually know I'm not certain that they can just it on to the renter because they're already getting Max Market Val well that's what they're doing right that's true market the market dictates I want to the market dictates what they can get for rent and they're not by you know the beautiful hearts they have lowering the rent because because they don't you know they're concerned right they're they're meaning market demand so how do we how do we make sure that um those that are greatly benefiting financially from real estate maret um and rental market uh you know help carry the burden here um I think they've already Shi the cost the cost for the winter I'd like to maybe find the right balance if [Music] you I was on the P you know the conversation that well the um lamb doesn't chares R theet not whether the tax go up and down but there's another whole group of people who are are smaller smaller invested in there um and typically when you try to leas uh the leas requires you to pay any increase that and lot so I'm just wondering whether the it's true that the um well I you're trying to on I wonder um I'm not sure about I I don't remember the tax being signed maybe that's two two or three families do but the large commercial proper not what could be really helpful is to understand what percentage of our rent in book l are in these commercial how many yeah we we definitely look at our two and three families occupied um soon well just how many like how many how many units Lal properties or T and how many total rental units are iner that would help us I I don't understand how much how much would be affecting yeah I you know what I'm saying we could maybe charge more to the L commercial owners it affect fewer renters um and the others the two and three I suspect maybe the large percentage a to three which would stay at the [Music] 63% yeah you understand I'm looking for total number how many unit of R how many R units in how many R units in and you do you have this unit or a small by we we value partments by just a parcel yeah so we have to but in that valuation we're looking at how many make data has Department two two or three family exactly and and dat also rental property of rental units in condomini yes because we we know whether or not they're getting how many how many renters in so I think it's 52% are getting resal that 48% of our fonding are last well [Music] sometimes I'm my own property this building attach this part our condo where some people there couple of apartments that are owned by people who live I guess the reason why I've asked you for this and I just would be helpful to understand a next level of detail about how we're affecting our residents and how many residents it's hard to think about properties and you're shipping the number of properties or parcel to understand actually how many residents um it's the residents that we here from not the parel so I think that type of analysis could be really help I agre joh if you're looking at R from to yeah and so M can't separate Val so the impact be you know you will have small bur through whereas larger to your larger well that makes so understanding the percent you know the percentage of I don't know what the threshold has you raise a good point is it six where you typically see the rent to charge I think they're already probably charging um the smaller ones maybe relational you know setting the rent at the relationship level market right but as you start getting up larger the cost are higher they're probably getting the margin that's that again I just I just think it's helpful to start thinking about residents and the number of people that were affecting effective and I and I appreciate it it's not just a res residential exemption if we wanted to shift some money over to commercial R proper you have to ship to do the personal right that's that's commercial residential so you we may did we have we had various rates here to ship that's cor yeah 20% option 16 demonstrates percentage drop off of that c Shi all the way down 1.7 Shi please and talk [Music] to yeah make sure that we clear [Music] no um okay so let's open the public uh hearing and me is there anyone who would like to speak I can see a couple people going there's no one that signed up in advance if you're joining us online and would like to speak on the P classification please raise your hand using the raise the hand teacher is there anyone in the room who wishes to speak good St no one is indicating their desire to speak [Music] okay time really the timeline that we' established very right there is some [Music] risk um I think we all acknowledge that this is extraordinarily busy uh and uh I'm not sure that the aete of people he indictive of lack of interest to have lack of awareness is it possible to in a sense send the our nextow for the that might be [Music] sure and that gives us rest of an opportunity to but and yeah we received email [Music] some so there number of people who he especially is always yeah interested in the so the fact that no one is speaking up right now doesn't mean very great to what we're doing not the too great a burden on staff but um if it would be possible also to have um a couple of things um a table that shows U what the percentage tax increase was from year to year for like a fiveyear look CL for all of them you know category and um what was the other I think that would kind of cover oh excuse me also just a kind of a graph with t line that shows the trend line this is what happen to this class this is what happen this class we get a sense of the overall over a fiveyear period yeah um sharing of the taxil between the various I can leave that with you today but I'll also [Music] I find it the composite taking the list taking the bottom two lines of 19 them EAS [Music] [Music] 2ess in in the room um and you know they collected mod the things um it feels like we have tried our best to spare commercial property exessive vo um recognizing that very um that's the that problem and often um has the time come when there's been a lot of healing in the commercial properties um and that maybe we could seriously consider whether we need to maybe you know once again resume giving them their Dre share of the building of taac so that there other classes might be going up six seven 8% a year and they're only going up one two% a year if we can even it out a little bit the most we can do is the maximum sh sure yeah yeah what we're I mean from hearing from what the board is thinking that that's that's what we probably be pursuing it's 1.75 and round only follow too late com i' love to say something but not on behalf of of can see your name Harold Peterson the home ownership break down all the M because of so so difficult to buy a house CL because of High house prices been high financing cost that means that more people are in the rental market the given supply of rental housing rents go up that's what's happen line happen throughout the country now if we were to increase the residential exension I would argue that in the short run R could probably go down just a little bit Market rent that's because it would become more more attractive to someone who's on the fence to buy a condo rather than rent slight reduction in demand for rental housing but in the long run residential extension with a very very powerful incentive to countless conversion that reduces the supply of rental housing and that drives up rent pretty simple thank you Point that's that's why we often counil you know coun grad because because system it goes up you know down by personal experience it's exactly that ibody buy a house we bought a house in a building but used to beart um so we move with Market Market also in our situation we can there's very little that we can do to increase the two two the small L right it's it's the large meal are the ones that I'd like to maybe Balan and not impact the small because it's it's their commercial and they're making a lot of money off of the issu that but but how um the we've heard that 48% of the condos of the condos in book occupied by rental that's because once once the supply goes down and up so the rent enough to invest as well but but you look at the but then last year condos were virtually flat yeah and why was that because aent financing rate for an investor to buy uh condo for rental you'd have negative fast grow the first few years that's just not very attrative 79 we're see same investment right but even then all you know 20 20 21% invested on single that's a big that's a big number to me um been a lot of discussion about Nation about inv [Music] and okay as always thought um and one of mention a lot of analysis and one of things was really shocked me about the the information in the email was the wide range of ental exemption starting at zero you% and then all the way up to like 35% can you just sum up what of the policy implications of going way down to zero or the policy implications is going way up to 35 yeah there are 14 communities in massachus because of represent exension seven in the Greater Boston area and seven in tap in the island tap in the island they're clearly Shifting the burden onto the the you know the and here know lost D book line that's such a large large amount of apartment housing it was cly easy to ship the burden onto par s Newton does not have a Rec uh and in the last 10 years a number of communities have drawn to a a mean tested mean tested subury spreading to a few others an alternative and how many are thinking thinking of things alternative we have to mean better way to PR and to [Music] know the only one that made it almost impossible to be eligible that's because decided that people would have to go to the tax first that would thought to be the best option if you if you have the you qualified in terms of the value of your property uh and your income uh but could not get it back to th you you get the M St of exception but that meant only a few people possibly whose mortgage had been sold into the secondary market and they couldn't get they couldn't find a bank to sign off for them to get the tax referral so it might possibly have included one or two or 50 families we not how many but we had no applicants this year just to be clear this is what was passed by the legl we're now in the second year the reason we're not talking about it is because as Herold said there were no appli yeah yeah and I remember the discussion about crazy the crazy mechanism that was yeah members of the board recall the that was the discussion you had about what the asset limit was in the spring of last year the other thing I recall about that discussion um was that a lot of people were using sub as a model of what what ignoring sub doesn't have small number [Music] of yeah app probably this here but is a place where somebody pointed out to me that has always been a place where you could rent School you didn't have to buy and it's it's inter to think about the implications of that when you're trying to set tax policies you want to make it more possible for people to impct rent good school or do or do you want to pass the burden over to the to I came in as a Rec had we've been for 12 years up the B do today you know as a young assistant professor I couldn't do that today unfortunate AI very very I I do I do talk in that we should be aware that the residential is [Music] powerful I'm trying to work on that urally so far not very good mean the higher it goes or communities that have ver supp to don't I'm trying to what I'm trying to look at is what has been the impact on the number of two and three family homes on the impact of the number of condos I'm also trying to look at rent so rent are moreid so far much isn't the the conversion of two and three family rental housing into um by condomin uh is is driven by the value of the supply of s homes or condos low so that's you know big it the developer can get much more value out of out of the property if they can increase the number of units on that reconstruction and and the value of those Pond is so high that they're doing that that send some right where before they would invest and have a long-term rental and that would be you have a better return but you know the the values of of of homeowners one is iing about somebody owns a family home they convert it to cond sorry cond s they b s and the cash value of of but that's not my sense is that's not what's happening what's happening is there the property come to a value to convert that they're selling yeah there's some of that they're cashing up try redeveloping a property I think that's not happening I think it's develop number of been going up rapidly throughout the states probably the Nations you know it's not number a question you talk about how you're trying to look at this are youing at all 14 communities no no I'm looking at want in the island pleas story I'm not not at and from just sort of generally eyeballing Brook versus newon without intervention you see a difference in terms of the r of I know the differences are not great whe whether whether in fact it appears slightly more not just signic so I don't have don't haveing I shared with a few some people earlier with you um a little bit of information about what was happening to in particular F on tax bills in the last five years and um sh you know the numbers I just satisi that 20 the bus went up 7% 21 they went up 11% um 22 under the medium so you know allow for that 9% 23 4% 24 10% I'd like to be able to to people asking this question what do I think it's going to be in 205 and I'm getting the impression it's going to be the same on something like 7.5 yeah where where the bo up that yeah yeah yeah okay that M have come to next meeting but you know I think the P that don't expect us to be able to w a magic around and make that CH I mean you know you can chip it around a little bit but you know sort of that just that not taking out 2.5% you really don't have that many option one more I think one of the things that I struggle with is I don't you don't have a policy we're not you know we're we're kind of in minutia but what is our long-term policy is it to is it to you know what shift what direction do we want to go are we trying to affect Supply you know supply of certain types ofc um you know thinking of moving away from the residential exemption I just I don't feel the board that we have a compass Direction uh that we're going in and we wrestle with these numbers and R the weeds um we don't have a strategy I don't know how would you do [Music] long I agre I don't but I don't I don't understand ultimately what we're trying to achieve sing family is it the cost of [Music] R okay Tiffany is there anyone else who would like to speak at our hearing no one is IND okay then the hearing is closed or we Contin I'm sorry yeah listen during the hearing continue until uh December December 3rd okay uh anything nothing else on the agenda or we have any warrant articles to review warle they realiz the language so I think John you're making that motion yeah somebody's name [Music] on I not even telling you I heard I heard that I was seconding to right okay um nothing else on the agenda so I will close the meeting