##VIDEO ID:tLDAkXIbgJs## e e e e e might be in the call here we go morning I'm berar green board and this is a regular meeting meeting in Workshop fashion of the SL board for December 10 2024 um this is a special meeting of not a special meeting but a workshop meeting of the s that [Music] will we will start by talking about that will be followed by the main event the presentation by on the and C budget for year that will go from 9:45 to 1215 after in the afternoon after lunch we have board business noise bylaw waiver hearing from school beginning at one establishment of a regue expenditure committee that will be at 13 and finally the board discrimination and retaliation so with that we have items a [Music] through I'm sorry appr I appreciate your and um I actually was wondering if we're going to have an announcement about the recent events I mean it's just for public who haven't yet [Music] seen this a problem published on the town website right it is okay so just say this much um for for those who are listening to this meeting and who have been following the information that he's been getting out uh about a very unfortunate oil spill that impacted the mdy river and impacted some of the wildlife of the muddy river um it's very important to get as many as much information as you can and in that regard if you will go to the bookline County website um you will see as much as we have been able to gather and to digest and to make available to the public how being respond to and what can do but maybe um despite best intentions might be better advised you know not to at this point to do was very unfortunate is being respond to [Music] let me pull up my script I did not have public comment on the agenda so I need to pull up the usual script here and while I'm doing that I just want to make note that we're using the Wi-Fi called Library app and if you're in the room it's on the sticky note the password question is everybody in the room able to access the agenda through the portal online I'm on the library and I have copies ofation that okay okay I have go ahead and read for public thank you for joining us for a public comment this is an opportunity for us to hear your perspective on the issues in perline that matter to you we do have a few rules each person speaking tonight is limited to three minutes you don't need to use the entire time but you may if you like we encourage you members of the public sometimes raise questions during public comment we may be able to provide a quick answer to a question but are more likely to work with staff to get a more thorough answer and respond over email we'll let you know when you have 30 seconds remaining and when your time is up please conclude your remarks at that time if you have more to say you're welcome to send an email to board members expressing your thoughts in Greater detail we did not have any people sign up in advance is there anyone in the room who wishes to speak or anyone online if so please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature at this time and it looks like there is one participant in the room 11 online and no one is indicating their desire to speak edit correction those okay so I move approval of items a [Music] okay Melissa you're Lincoln or on and just so folks can hear us um the owl always makes um the audio a bit tricky so if we can just speak up when we're talking so folks online can hear us more clearly um so we have our financial forecasts presentation and Then followed by that we have another presentation on the preliminary of CP um here with Lincoln Heyman he's going to be helping me out with the forecast but also want to thank Charlie for a lot of the input that he has put in um it's a lot of analysis that you know involves multiple parties and and feedback from a lot of different places um so I have that for you un you want to do it so the um the pressures that we face in our budget continue to be you know associated with employee benefits and selective bargaining uh we've been talking about the fact that arpa is coming to the end um which then will put pressure on departmental budgets to continue some of the some of the services that we've been using our money for we tried to you know limit that to onetime uses but we do have a couple of areas of the budget that we are lient to try and roll into the general fund uh our current projections show a deficit of about $1.3 million on the town side and approximately $6 million on the school side I will say that the schools are um a few weeks behind in terms of um their analysis and their projections for the upcoming year so this is a preliminary estimate that we receive from them uh for f point6 so the the cost pressures are kind of the same that we've been talking about over the years the special education budgets are always a pressure point for the schools collective bargaining is always a pressure point for both town and schools um we're seeing the impact of inflation and a lot of uh departmental budgets uh and then we're looking at um the impact of some of the station increases that look in the budget as well so uh this just shows the assumptions that we have in the multi-year forecast so um we are currently in on the revenue side of the house we are assuming um 2.5 million in New Growth um you know we've been talking about the fact that there is no major project in the pipeline to provide additional New Growth so this is really kind of you know uh a lot of what we've seen in the the past year or so have been uh growth that we've seen from hanok Village and from um The Well Tower I think it's called the Newberry now uh site so you know now going forward we're we're kind of looking to see um what else could be coming out but at this point there's no no major development that is um in the forecast for a new growth um right now my assumption for State a is conservative I'm assuming level funding for state aid uh they had their consensus Revenue hearing at the beginning of the month and um they they are behind their Benchmark in terms of their first quarter of fiscal 25 and um they've been s signaling um very caution in terms of what uh what we'll get from state aid it's a quick question on that in uh historically has it always at least been level funding have you ever seen them come in with less than the year prior so we haven't seen a reduction but we did see n um Some n9c Cuts last year which essentially focused on earmarks um so that's why we're kind of being conservative they do have a 1.9 to 3% um those were the ranges in the consensus Revenue hearing that they were talking about um so we're hopeful that there you know we we'll find out next month what we actually will get up from the cherry sheet um but at this point we're you know without any kind of more concrete information we don't you know we're being conservative this and how does that to three yeah compare to previous that's our last we so I think we got around three last year for aug um and they check what would it you at this year have to look at last year's presentation to see what they had translate the % so I would say that we probably would get you know maybe 300,000 out of UG and maybe uh Chapter 70 is really the wild package to how many you know per pupil spending and what we would get out that we usually only we're minimade community so we're at the max for what the state will provide so the only thing that we'll see is if they give us a per pupil number and then um we'll see if they make adjustments to the to the foundation budget sometimes they apply an inflation back to the overall Foundation budget that we would you know see but at this point um you know I think last year we started out at $50 per pupil I think the MMA is pushing for 104 per pupil um but we'll see where we land with that you know the student the I haven't looked to see the October number um they usually provide an update to the to desie in October so we'll have a we'll based on on you can't speak for the scol we do have a sentence going up or down or St I don't know if they done last year no um so our local receipts we are showing a 4.1% growth uh in fiscal 26 and then modest growth in the out years um we did see some strong Returns on hotel motel I think we've also heard EAB say that that might be kind of one time in nature just you know postco effect of people wanting to come out and then visit and so we're kind of keeping our eyes on those uh receipts as they come in as well um on the expenditure side you know still assuming the override plan rolling into fiscal 26 um we still do need to keep the salary savings that we are currently holding in the police budget in order to fund the contract um unfortunately we got a 12% estimate for a rate increase um for Group Health um which is you know part of part of the reason why we're really kind of struggling on the expenditure side um and in the out years of the plan I'm assuming 10% and then we're looking at a subscriber growth of about 30 3015 it should say on that um time School uh continuing our uh pension schedule um as of January 1 2024 uh we're assuming a 2% collective bargaining increase in fiscal 26 1.5 and 27 uh and then looking to continue the the oped plan and following our fiscal policies as well um the next slide just so the uh salary savings continued to fund Police contract yeah can you translate that into positions how many positions have we been hold it's it's it's um so the next slide just so we are holding the salaries because we need that in order to fully contract it's not budgeted it's not budgeted so we with the positions are open but we can't fill them because we taken that money to fund the cont so it's not like we're we're budgeting for cash we're just not putting money in for those positions that's what we did last year right to do this we have yeah otherwise the deficit will grow if we if we weren't able to do that um the next slide just shows kind of the the history of our override plans and the funding um through fiscal 25 we are in near two of a three-year override cycle curently you can go ahead and skip to the next slide um this shows the override CL so you can see the M School 26 we're looking at an increase of 2.5 million 1.5 that uh directed to the schs 600,000 going toward the CIB for roadway uh and then 413 on the town side as well so then we can go ahead and go to the next slide so this is a blizzard of numbers that people normally can't read but we'll be posting it on the website so that you can see um these are the current revenue and expenditure projections for each of the different budget categories uh that translates the overall $7.4 million deficit 1.3 on the town side and approximately six on the school side as well that's a quick question sure so just going back to the prior slide yes and this is just my education I'm not I'm not proposing anything um but when we when we do an override we commit to the first three years correct and we allocate those funds and we phase them in as a threee period um is and I'm just asking is there anything that prevents us from accelerating has that ever been doing is that in the cars or no accelerating out years coming what do so well so oh so we're in fiscal 25 like raising that money now instead of in6 and I just don't know if the ballot question allow Mone already there's no there's no opportunity now to pull that money into 25 I I do think it's useful to look at we look at 20 25 26 but look down the road and there's a a very consistent billion dollar so deficit in each particular and typ grows in the town so I very conscious of what's going on as you say in the out as as just kind well even if you look at the deficit between 29 and 30 you don't see it kind of jump and part of the reason why is that we're seeing the benefit of the runoff from the pension system and so we'll we'll need to talk about you know the plan for that funding um obviously we would recommend that a lot of that rest the opad liability um but it is you know it's something that we're going to have to really make some careful decisions about so then I'm gonna turn over to Lincoln thank you MRA good morning um so U I'll I'll uh go through the revenue picture and then and then go back to Misha for the expenditure budget so um as you know as the board has seen previously in the public you know the primary source of our revenue is property taxes you know almost three quarters of it um and you know so that really sort of demonstrates you know that this limited area um that that is available for growth if if desired uh the other um you know the the other primary areas in order or local receipts but we'll have a slide there that shows some of the increases that we're looking at there state aid um the the free cash figure and um we do have a reduction in other available funds again we have slide to sort of uh to represent what what's happening there and with Enterprises next slide please thank you so um as you can see again you know the primary driver in terms of increase as opposed to overall percentage in the previous slide in that high chart is the property taxes that's uh you know also said the the new growth plus the third year of the override layering in third and final year of the override um again uh uh increases in local receipts we think target increases that make sense that are that still represent um you know some conservative wise budgeting level funded state aid and reductions in other available funds um the as you can see here in out years the operating annual operating Revenue increases 2% so moderating increases um yeah thank you so um as we talked about so just a look at fiscal 25 so um the the the prior Levy limit of 282 .9 million the 2 and a half% increase the new growth uh again that you know that that new growth is slightly more than what was originally budgeted but but again you know with respect to the um to the conservative budgeting that that we project it's it's it's within the level there um then we you can see that negative number so that two 2,5 548 th000 that's the excess Levy that's in fiscal year 25 the levy to Paul's point that is not being collected but that will be collected in fiscal year 26 okay that's year three exactly that's year three that we're not collecting now and that what will be collected in fiscal year 26 we talking about New Growth we do have one project the wdo Duran project on the horizon and as a practical matter if we see that in 29 or 30 it's it's worth thinking about that in the further out also want we got to chest Hill which is is currently in discussion we're talking about off the chart it's it's way out there 32 31 32 something like that yeah and we meet with the assessor and the economic development team and you know as we're working through our new growth members we're consulted with them I think it's important because people see wough they in graic empty a lot now yeah and they're saying well okay where's the new growth coming from must be coming from there but it's going to take a long time before that's that's accessible well I think it's to to your point it's a few years out and and as to as molissa said we we're regularly you know regularly Consulting with them so you know to the extent you know that project you know is there and we have a clear picture in the future as to where it will be we'll build that in but as you say it's it's slightly speculative now yeah a similar question how do you f how did you come to the 2.1 million sort of uh Benchmark figure mov historically that's been kind of our kind of our base is around 1.8 um and then you know depending on kind of where the assessor feels that the market currently is and what he might be able to capture um that's where the 2.1 comes so a lot of that is you know a lot of that is just sort of the routin residential piece right so so we're looking at Renovations we're looking at you know te tear downs and complete rebuilds Etc so so so much of that is just as Melissa says our standard expectation of of primarily in in the residential field what what it's going to be and what it has been uh just I know that this generated a lot of confusion last year with the public excess capacity and it would be great to just add a footnote and explanation to what that is so they don't think like we're we're not taxing up to the maximum amount as the way our overes work happens as Hill proper demolished taxes there but so would it that period sure it's a great question so it really depends on how quickly the the um the rec if our presumed reconstruction happens so the the valuation date for each fiscal year so for example in fiscal year 2025 that we're in now the valuation date um that that we use is January 1 this past January 1 uh so so you know so whatever percentage is done if a project is mid is Midway complete right on January 1st whatever percentage is done that's what is assessed um and and then in future years for example for a commercial property or um or a multif family um or multi-unit uh rental properties it's it's then in future years based on on on rents on actual rents receed but when it's under construction it's whatever percent of the construction is complete that's what's sucessful what's there so it really depends on the how quick you know that reconstruction and renovation happens I I think it's worth mentioning that right now the chest H Office Park which is the only piece that we're thinking will be redeveloping and so toward the end very end of this uh the um tax revenue out of that is is pretty low because it's uh almost empty I think it's on the order a million dollars plus or minus um so um whatever removal is there it kind of exceed the amount that that's uh and the land you know land value will primar value well if you if you if they demoed it yeah and then they didn't rebuild it for five years we would lose that million right so we would but uh I think it's extremely unlikely that a developer will take it down the much more likely event is if we can't come up with zoning that makes it attractive to rebuild they will uh release Reen lease the um the properties if we do change the zoning so that there in theory could be a higher use yeah wouldn't that increase the value on the landan doesn't increase the assessments so so what is assessed so so assessments based on what is actually there what not not what conceivably could be there so it may well increase the market value for example in like the sale value for example but what what is assessed is what is there or what isn't there zoning doesn't have any direct impact oness go ahead it's the because it's the income that is generated it's assessed on the income that it's generated that's right that's right for commercial property I mean the that you know there's that there's that little sort of interim period where if there if it's under construction let's say it's under construction for a few years and it's not creating income then it's based on the cost method right what's there but regardless what the underlying zoning is doesn't have a direct effect on the assessments uh next slide please terms for the upcoming January 1 that's correct we know the amount of ly for 2026 already if is known right yeah so we don't know so so we we we have an idea about what the new growth will be in 2026 and we have a projection in there but but but but B on January no no no so the the yeah yes so the it's okay yes it is confusing so the what the new growth will be in fiscal year 2026 a year from now is based on what is there as of January 1st of 2025 and so that is to say the you know what happens during calendar year 2024 that we're in now so we have this projection we have it you know we we we have a projection about what it will be but we do not know the exact New Growth number until it's certified by the State Department of Revenue approximately a year from now about 11 months from now yeah um so the so this is a slide you know showing showing the debt and showing what goes into the debt exclusion so that is to say what is being raised outside uh you know the the operating Levy um it that's been approved by the voters as debt exclusions that will flow off as that debt is uh retired so in it's 22 22 2201 million in uh fiscal 25 $29 million in fiscal 26 um the the the you can see the the primary aspects that make that up the the primary one by far one the largest is the high school um and and then the dristol school uh and then layering in with with new borrowings in fiscal 26 are uh the first uh the first borrowing for the fire station Renovations and the first borrowing for the renovation um and reconstruction of the peer school so that so what's represented there for the first time in fisal 26 is the debt um that that uh the town took out in March that was approved by the board in March so next one please so as most have mentioned we're looking at level funding for state aid um to select board member palan's question you know there has been it's been a while you know there have been reductions in state aid in the past when in the last uh you know really major downturn in fiscal year uh 2010 and and I believe in 2011 as well but at least one of those fiscal years back from there there were some some modest reductions in state aid um you know it's really rare but it has happened um but but you know we are again you know conservatively projecting a um level funded uh state aid figure um you know and we'll have to see as the state budget process proceeds about you know where where that's going to be and what the expectations are next next questions thank you so uh we we do have um some we are projecting some modest increases in local receipts so primarily uh in motor vehicle excise so we've continued for several years to have strong motor vehicle xiz uh receipts and and uh we're projecting a $200,000 increase there also in local option taxes uh so again in uh in hotel motel um you know that that's that's been the and meals those have been the big ones that we've continued to see um you know really strong growth especially as we're as we continue to come out of covid um the increase is a $200,000 increase in projected parking uh and for find so that's primarily from continuation of the parking uh increase the the rate increase that was approved by the board um and uh you know some other modest increases but again those are the the three primary ones that are driving um the 4.1% um expected increase going into fiscal year 2026 can I just clarify parking Court finds is not the meters the meters departmental enough sorry so the parking I was gonna say parking meetings are million my no it's fine regarding uh the local receipt categories not that I'm looking to impose more fees on residents but are there any categories that other municipalities will charge fees on typically that we're not I don't think there are likely many areas where we are not we the cter plan are not purging fees that another municipality is um you know it's one thing we've we've talked about as to whether or not there may be some targeted other areas that fees could go up I don't think it would be I don't think that analysis would produce a significant increase in any particular area um but but there's no area that I'm aware of that um you know where the the town doesn't charge a fee that another municipality public building rentals would be under which category for local receipt so that be under departmental and other so we don't rent out our our public spaces I think the schools do but we don't charge a fee for Ral space I think the library May but we um we um okay going back to this distinction between pares where does parking there it's under departmental another and it's actually um we had to reduce our projection because we had had an estimate based on the um the increase and we're not seeing it uh so we're just around $5 million for the um for that particular category I'm just wondering everything um May part information can we break down the sure yeah I have the same what's in general government so the biggest thing in general government is building permits um and then the rest is kind of miscellaneous permits um you know zoning Bo St most of it isk fees um Police Department fees things like that I know that we we talked about while somewhere out in terms of a property assessment but there is potentially a building permit fee that will be a pretty substantial chunk 27 maybe there can you think about factoring that in does that make any sense or so we tend to not want to do that because we don't want onetime money to be funding recurring expenses so a lot of times um you know I I talk about two areas of local receipts that we um you know intentionally under budget and building permits is one of those areas uh because it's cyclical you know if we have to pull back on it you know then that results in you know more reductions so we and we also need to hit a target for our funding of our Capital plan and so I A lot of times we'll point to that particular account and say that is feeding the CIP okay so that the excess Clos into free cash and then that becomes the basis for what we provide to the CIP thank and the other area we'll talk a little bit more about Lincoln can you know probably talk more about than I can is um you know we've been very fortunate in the interest rate Market that we've been kind of participating in to have some strong returns for our interest income um that's also one time in nature we don't expect these high interest rate environments to kind of continue into the long term um so that's also part of the part of the reason why you're seeing a strong um free cash number as well and well yeah the next slide may may sort of a little bit more detail on those so so um as Mista said on the interest income so we do have a modest increase there we have seen we have seen that be a you know a real driver of non-property tax revenue um interest income in the interest environment that we've experienced there are a few reasons where we we believe it's wise you know to have that modest increase in fisal year 2026 but um we're reluctant to push it much higher the the the the primary driver there is number one um we've had a a large increase in arpa monies that we've been earning interest on in this higher interest rate environment um and and so that's one factor those have those are getting spent out so we're not gonna have that balances able to earn interest income on the other piece is the interest interest uh income environment is changing obviously right so the Federal Reserve as we know cut the federal funds rate back in September um you know we'll see where that goes going forward one thing um that we um that we did in working with um one of the town's financial advisers is much of the interest income that we have the the largest pieces of it are in in treasuries and so one of the things um that uh so we layer in treasuries typically they're in nine months um sometimes a little bit longer of duration sometimes a little bit of a shorter duration we're for forunate in that um we uh purchased nine months just before the rate cut we weren't certainly Market timing or anything that it was fortuitous we sort of knew you know that the rate C was coming knew precisely when but a lot of those are layering out at the close of this fiscal year 2025 so we know that we're going to continue to have a strong interest income uh you know Revenue amount in fiscal 25 you know we're quite sure that we're not going to be able to those at the same rates that we've receiving so we have a modest increase in fiscal 26 we think that's wise but you know I I don't think you know we're going to see that same kind of interest income uh uh um Revenue in fiscal 26 and going forward because of that so so just to bear I'm not sure this entirely um we are and we uh intentionally continuing to project interest income that is significantly below is that what we're saying here um for 25 yes I think that if you look at the history from prior to fiscal year 21 you'll see kind of the the the 675 is kind of normal for us um and then you see that it actually dropped in fiscal 22 um so these last few years are definitely higher than we than we usually see so we're kind of we don't want to build that in because it we still view it as onetime in nature and so to build recurring expenses against that would would then mean abrupt reductions once that changed is talk we like in the range of five and six million3 and 24 and going forward to does do we really think or or do we just have a really solid reason we want you know it's it's one time what the level of it it is you know simar some way to the building permit to the to to how we see building permits right we know that it's cyclical um you know and and it it's another area I think of the only two really where where because it's because we know it's one time in nature now is it one time in nature over a few fiscal years and then you know off perhaps right but we know that it is not sustainable over 10 years right that's correct and so I think you know I think when when we see that if it's one time in nature it's appropriate to under you know to to quote unquote under budget it in some way so that it can feed this the CIP you know for onetime expenses it's also supporting you know we've been using a lot of free cash to put into the stabilization as well so that's you know part of the benefit as [Music] well could you just compare the the interest landscape in FY 21 and22 those are reasonably similar to the landscape today in 24 like what's what's the difference between those two funds Department I'm just interest are you sayon point I wanted to make so again so two pieces right much more cash that we are I mean it's in treasuries it's not cash perc but much more liquid funds right because primarily because of arpa that that we are investing and then the higher interest rate on top of that right so I don't recall right now right so like in the middle of fiscal year 22 what was the federal funds rate I don't recall right now you we can find that much much lower right at least at least uh at least four points low right so this is really helpful you just clarified it for me but what do you anticipate the balance to be in FY 25 versus FY 24 is it going to be reduced I mean you're you're going from 6.9 million to 900,000 you're basically taking away six million in interest income why we're not reducing these are actuals the budget is different I'm talking about fy2 you're budgeting 9 right so we're not this will create a surplus for us in principal 25 that's that's what we're saying because it's gonna be free cash but I just I just want to make sure I'm clear with my question thought I may be reading the chart wrong so fy2 the interest income budgeted is 920,000 right and in FY 24 was 6.9 million that was not the budget that was that was the actual I'm sorry that's okay that's the actual uh forgive me so so we're saying we don't anticipate we anticipate a reduction of $6 million in interest income let me get the words out I could be completely off my rocket here uh and and I'm trying to understand the factors of that have the interest rate changed or has the balance of money changed that much no we are not budgeting for it so there's a difference between our projections that may include that budget correct because we feel that it is one time in nature and we don't want to build recurring expenses against one time ah I see okay Mar so um if you think about the impact of arpa uh there on average 30 million dollar floating through the system and if the interest rate is four or 5% um you've got 1.2 1.3 million been put right there but but what can I so what but what it's what's helped me understand there's three factors going on here there's interest rates there's there's the balance of the what we're getting interest on yeah right and then there's how we want to budget the money and what you're saying is you don't want to budget that money for operating expenses because you become dependent upon it but you can't get the we know AR is going to go away the interest rate CH so it's not predictable corre and so that would end up going into free cash which helps us on CIP um slightly different question one thing that we can say for sure just based on the most recent history with this High interfa environment is that it turns out you know interest income is a very significant part the revenue all of a sudden is millions of dollars over there how do we um make sure that um we are getting every doll of interest income that we can get when when we're handling these huge amounts of depositable funds y and all of a sudden infate environment means that that could deely produce millions in revenue for us what what is our check against how we're doing in the way we handle and and park those funds versus other communities for example couple things so I speak at least once a week um with David jedir who's our Morgan Stanley who this is this is what he does is specifically government um government entities and more specifically M clients High Network High Network individuals so some of the restrictions W apply to them but then also governments and specifically Municipal Municipal governments in Mass two things um the because of we have What's called the legal list so in our for our general funds not not trust funds you know these are this is General funds these are General funds we have um severe restrictions on what those funds can be maybe um invested in there a list of 22 stocks that are sort of updated as frequently as they should be from the Division of Banks the State Division of Banks it's uh see the Pennsylvania Railroad is still on there pennslvania railroad is still on there it is we do not own any Pennsylvania Railroad do I think we should um but it's it's you know it's fizer it's Pennsylvania Railroad I think Coca-Cola still on there and you know etc those are the only equities that they can be in so what do we have what do we have as Alternatives essentially essentially treasuries right where we know where they have been um receiving you know the maximum interest rate return that we can but are still liquid yeah and are um you know and are safe relatively safe as safe as anything do in this in this moment right and so at least once a week we're we're we're we're talking about what's coming you know we own a lot of trees of varying durations so at least once a week we're talking we're talking to see okay what are we going to renew what are we going to renew for this length of time ver that time and um you know and I think I think that has served us well it has served us well in terms of of producing this rather than for example um you know just having them then in a what am what would amount to a checking account exactly um there is one thing I think is really important to remember um we talked about how we're in a high interest rate environment now we're not we're in what is historically a normal interest rate environment um we were in an extraordinar low interest rate environment because of Co and prior to that there was a period after the 2008 financial clap when the FED also cut rates down to something you know like Z so um not for this projection because this is probably reason for what we're looking at for the um for the you know for the future but it is important to pay attention to when that when we can forget about that really low interest rate environment and think about 4% 5% is being 34% is being normal rate so that's something that you know you can think about in five years but and you can't time the market no no no but you do have to be consci because at some point if we return to an interest environment in which people have you know we recognize that three four 5% is normal for the federal funds rate then we make should be making a projection based on that not based on one or two% okay but I do think these are important questions about whether we are leveraging the what we have in our accounts the best of our abilities and I'm not saying this would be the best way to do it but there's CDs that are even 10 months that are at a higher rate than just sort of parking it with savings the C time and so I wonder what are some other options Flor what do some other municipality do so we look at CDs I mean I I haven't seen a CD rate that's been that has beat um that that that has beat the the rate of return that we've been receiving by approach you know by by pursuing this this um strategy with with treasure I have they' you know I mean the there are some that have approached it but but so so to me you know I mean it's it's not receiving the same am rate return and we're and we're um we're losing a lot in terms of liquidity right so we have we we maintain complete liquidity with respect to Treasures as long as someone wants to buy treasuries we can go sell them if we we do whereas if we're in a CD at from what I've seen consistently lower interest lower rates than what we've done through the treasuries not not significantly lower but lower those are two factors that say to me we should stay with the strategy that we're on right now well I certainly would want to go for lower but just I'm glad that we're looking at that in case there were a CD rate that end up being higher because I do occasionally see 10mon CDs that are at least at a higher rate certainly yeah I mean so the um to that point we're investing money over shorter periods of time in 15 months but also investing them over perod so so depends so the longest duration that we that we've had with with treasures over the last two years been 90s and and and and the shortest I think was one month one month sorry interr that's right yeah so but but yeah I mean I think you know most most municipalities in Massachusetts aren't doing you know I they're putting it in um in a bank maybe in some CDs but they're not routinely you know doing this and because it may not necessarily be a good use of their time because they fund Bal are this is what you're doing is classic treasury operation right corporate treasury operation the same thing right and it's it's a very appropriate thing to do it's great to hear um it's just interesting to you know speculate about how the changing interest environment will affect that and I can understand your the cost yeah I mean I think you know it's the the and again we we have these restrictions from the legal right so I think I think and and I think you know the the primary goals you know that are that have them you know that are traditional for municipality is liquidity and relative safety right so even if the legal list was to change and you could the town could invest its General funds in the stock you know in equities overall I still don't think probably we would want to do that right because there's a significant risk of plus right um that we aren't experiencing any by the way I was joking when I said it's it's still on the list that's just to put this series of questions into a little bit of perspective you know when when we we we we really really highly highly highly value and protect our rating from the bonding agencies um and that's the rate of you know that impact the rate on which we borrow right but we so seldom kind of get measured by the the rate of interest that we are getting on our deposited funds and I just think it's a a really important question that needs to be asked constantly just to make sure that we're not missing opportunities safely you know to do better than we might have done if we put it somewhere where it's sitting getting no interest at all and there are I correct me if I'm wrong but in the low interest inv I swear that there have been periods of times when um we're paying out you know to to have accounts you know in in certain places that take out our accounts but charge us a little bit you know and uh in the high interest rate environment there's no way as far as I know we should be paying Bank fees you know on deposit but um we we have to be constantly kind of thinking about that and the sful I think just as we protect our bond raisting on money we borrow I think we got to be asking questions every now and about how we with the money we have no I I I appreciate the point because it's it is I think to your point where the interest rate environment where the federal funds rate will be changing in a way that it hasn't you know uh it's it's something that you know we I'm looking at even more frequently you know where for example you know some some of some rates that are available um for CDs may may become you know in the in the realm of competitive with what we're doing with treasuries and and we'll be looking at that absolutely Paul so just as a suggestion because I I I think this has been really helpful um to understand how we're investing money what risk we may be taking on what the impact is perhaps as a footnote going forward we start just publishing what is for that what's the actual rate of return we got for that year on on our investments and just start that just start exposing it so we can see it the bud we have we have a complete uh well it's in the annual report there a complete listing of all monies on deposit um and it's it right yeah well not necessarily bu account account um but but but certainly the overall the overall answer yes I'm not suggesting we look at every account from micromanage I just think if we could just expose the actual rate of return annually we just help the AG yeah I'm Sor one more and part of this is just curiosity and um but by any chance do you have uh your fingertip the amount of money this book line cly have Bank um yeah so it's uh I I I I'm going to check a file right when we get back but um but it's uh it's around it's around for man okay to get people some idea of what we're talking you know that that's every that's op trust that's everything new right everything um can I could we just take a two second break to recognize that Jaz has has has returned are you okay no blood about that yeah a good car it was a good yeah yeah yeah well uh thank you for here but but put your health you've been through a lot this um okay so other available funds uh as we said overall there's a reduction here the reduction is uh entirely due to the use of the overlay so the overlay is the amount um that we have in account for the assessors to Grant abatements and exemptions if the board recalls for the fiscal year 2025 budget uh the assessors voted to release $3 million of that which was used um in 25 and so we're not projecting that for fisal 26 and then the um the other reduction is uh a result of the a decrease in projected um HC funds and you know we've discussed that but um that's that's the reduction then modest increases elsewhere from um from fall uh Recreation and water res are we set with um the licensing fees on um at this point on marijuana okay that's clear so we have a base there yeah we're now switching um now we have opioid settlement funds coming in those are going into the stabilization fund so a lot of the positions in health that were supported to the ACA are converted to right no but what are we referring to this because we had the ATA the host Community agreements went away right but we put we put in a license fee that that said [Music] Leal right in order yeah okay what what is the walner Hillary is that's the care and maintenance so they they contribute so we have a Cemetary sub program within the parks and open space division so that money is transferred from their uh their funds to support the work of that so it's really next slide please thank you so um with respect to free cash and it's use in the projected for 26 budget um the free cash uh as the board knows and was discussed um and slightly amended um at uh at your Last Retreat um it's freach is used in accordance with the town's free cash policies so funding the annual budget Reserve um the the major change here and we'll talk about this in a moment is uh a recommended increased um to uh the funds appropriated to the stabilization fund so that is in direct response to the um to a part of the policy changes that were adopted by the board at your last retreat with um movies investor Services um expecting recommending that uh triaa Massachusetts municipalities maintain 20% of um prior year net revenues um excuse me 20 % uh in unreserved and stabilization fund um of 20% of the PRI Year's net revenues as opposed to the previous standard of 20% so um uh that um significant um relatively significant uh uh commitment to that was represented in line two the play cash estimate of an increase to the recommended appropriation for the Civ banking Fund in responsible again to select board member EV go the point at where this is the primary thing that we're hearing from moodies uh that you know where where we need to work to make to make sure that we're maintain um liability catastrophy fund does does not according to the free cash policy uh needs a um uh an appropriation in of 26 the this also though represents um uh CIP funding going up as due to the override from uh 6.6% to 8 88.1% um affordable housing trust fund uh again according to the freash policy um if the balance is less than $5 million preash is Ed that use for that in the waterfall so that's $1.7 million and then and then special use so the remaining uh uh portion of the projected freecash amount that would be available for for special use and specifically for CIP is 9.6 m well just a quick question so I think last year we were we had a delay in free cash being certified do you anticipate have we I don't know why that occurred I can't I know we talked about it but um do you anticipate a similar delay this so we are um I don't want to speak friend L but so normally at this time of year like probably five years ago we would already had our prast certified so we're closer to that but not quite where we want to be for getting that done um what's the factor that between five years now part of it um we've had you know some turnover and positions that are you know responsible for reconciliation and making sure that those are complete so that's part of why was delay that was good just put a little more color on that so so we we are very close to being certified to having it complete for this year put a little more color on on Melissa's point with respect to Staffing so we had uh a we we had a vacancy in the world contoller that was just filled uh last month which is great we had ay comol and Chelsea Stevens that is the critical position with respect to the submissions to the state and uh the other key position there was um what's now the deputy treasure collector position hly svent who just started less than two weeks ago and that position was uh vacant for five months um so it was difficult filling those we we have been able to fill those two positions now and it's AIS point we expect that we will be on the track next year and certainly much more much earlier than last year this certification um then Mar and then um you know I think we have uh and as yet um maybe unacknowledged uh policy that we can choose to discuss and too to think about or can we can quickly just think with and say we kind of like things the way they are but we're facing the reality that for a couple years in a row now we've had a really really substantial amount of free cash and free cash doesn't just happen it's it's you know largely but not entirely but largely um unspent monies that we budgeted and so in that sense we're not budgeting with intentional policy we're not saying this is what we budget because we think it should all be spent as we budgeted it we're budgeting and sort of putting aside the fact that we can kind of depend on a lot of this money won't be spent and actually we have maybe decided but we haven't ever taken a vote on it as far as I know um but that would be a good thing so because if if you have all these unspent monies it helps you to do all these things at the end of the year that you can do with free cash but it's a strange way to sort of get around to funding all these things that we do with free cash that we go ahead with a budget that we know at least we known it for the last two years the evidence has been in the last two years that we have a lot of money in the budget that comes back to us um at the end of the year so I I can't make up my own mind whether that's a good thing or not a good thing I do know that I like what we do with our fre cash but I also know that we never seem to have a discussion of you know are these budget numbers the budget numbers that we want them to have in in this budget if they are didn't you say we wanted the money to be spent on XYZ you know operating departments and not on these other things and it's only by accident that it came back to us at the end of the year but thank God we had it to spend on these other um um I actually had another question um but when we do budget Weist I can say you know we're looking at a particular number number for New Growth for example that's $2.1 million and that's a careful conservative number it might be 2 5 2.7 you know 3 million something like that so we know that um uh that there's some uh that there's some upside in collections there's sometimes there's an upside uh in in expenses as well happen with the Police contract thetion so um if you look at that number it's like 6% of total collection coming like it's not a high number and it's an unusual number for this particular year because of this was a building perit um uh a good chunk of this I about that of the free pass M so the two drivers of our SP have have been building permits and um for the past couple of years has been in and interesting just had the conversation about interest but what I was going to ask you something entirely different uh the unreserved fund balance stabilization fund contribution $6.2 million how close are we now getting to that 20% so so we were already at the 20% so quick quick reminder on some of that so we were at last time we were measured we were at 23% right that's right okay the median um for Massachusetts municipalities triaa related uh Massachusetts municipalities was 33% um and so um we don't we don't know where the meum will be right uh in in month because we don't know where each of those where all of those 15 now you know municipalities are at this moment but um you know but we do know that at 23% we were we were uh the we were the low second yeah so so so we believe this 6.2% you know we don't know where the median is yet because not everyone has been measured but we do know that with the $6.2 million we should be making some significant ress towards you know do I think we'll be at the medum with this no will we be closer yes tget yeah that's the target but because many of those municipalities are are not cities and towns they're like M Water CH which has a these are all municipalities so so 36 for M yes so they are comparing us but you're right right so so state so so so State debt as you all know is is still called a municipality but what Moody is looking at is specifically municipality but if if 20% is the target why would you know do we why do we need to be at 33% right at the meeting what what what is there psychologically basically the cont like that that we feel like will make a better you know a stronger impression because of course there some other methods where we don't with the the the cut for tripa but Triple A so this is the primary one that is that is within our our ability to change our direct ability to change that um where we are in the lower the you know cortile right we're we're at the bottom you know of the rankings yeah Triple A of AAA Massachusetts yeah yeah yeah no no no no thank you for that thank you for that of AAA rated Massachusetts municipalities this is the one that is directly in our control that um where we are in the lower tier so that's why we want to attack that we are you know we are doing well when we compare ourselves for example to pension funding and oped funding you know and these other things that are directly within our control then there are a whole series to your point there are a series of things that are not within our Direct Control that is to say um median income right um Etc right there are things that we don't have to have control over new but this is the thing that we do this andion right so so we're doing well in terms of comparison comp but correct those are the other things that are within you question I do yes so in terms of the special use amount of 96 million this past year how does that compare in terms of actual dollars a percentage with previous years I understand it was higher than than typical do you have a value in mind of what we need in order to cover those special uses is there a Target number where you go into a fiscal year saying well we really need at least five million do you have those so we built the CIP with the um the seven well what was previously the 7 and a half% policy we amended that with the override fund so now the target for the CIP is 3.1% of Prior your net revenue so we build the oute of the plan assuming that lower number so anything that comes in above and beyond that allows me to pull projects forward or pleas the counts that you know roadway account has been something that the board has expressed to their desire to to kind of have additional funding there as well um you know and we always get kind of cig requests that may not have been foring out years that um you know are more mediate need and were able to kind of fund projects like that um that weren't known at the time uh are you able though to uh further distill that down to discretionary which is what you are talking about where you put more funding into roadways is available as opposed to a true and anticipated me yeah we so the next presentation after this is the CIP and we can talk about kind of what's in the plan and kind of what was new from you know what wasn't there prior to and kind of where some of theal money is Paul yeah I just I want to take a moment and go back to John's uh John's points because I I I don't want to just leave it out there uh for people to believe that you know we're we're we're budgeting money and turning a lot back because I don't think that's actually correct um you know last year we were accused of sandbagging uh and holding back money uh by by a member of the public which was unfortunate because I think it was significant misunderstanding um you know I don't and it would be good to see the information but I don't think we're turning back my sense is a lot of money from operating budget um back into the CIP it's more we're not over we're being reasonably conservative or moderate on our forecast for localist seats and if we were to if we were to get too aggressive on them um we would end up potentially budgeting for operations on money that won't come um and that's my and I think that's if we're going to talk a policy a policy is we need to be reasonably I'm not going to say conservative but pragmatic about what we think will come in on local receipts so that we don't become dependent on something that's not going to come so I'm happy to have the policy discussion but I think uh I think we need to be very careful no I'm GL you pick me up on and and you're you know quite correct that some of this is underestimating revenues um but as we've heard in this very discussion uh that can be pretty significant and if the only reason that we're underestimating it is because by underestimating it we'll have six or5 million next year that we can spend on a bunch of stuff yeah um is that how we want to make the decision to to allocate you know five or six million dollar for a bunch of stuff so just well finish the point and so so yeah underestimating revenue is part of it but also unspent funds you it and I'd be happy to hear what the number is for unspent funds as a portion of the free cash that yeah yeah so just I I I think we need to be very careful with this narrative John because um I think that saying that it's you know we're underestimating I don't think that's what's occurring I think that we are we are pragmatically uh conservatively estimating local receipt because it's not it's not a perfect science we don't know what's going to happen but more importantly we got to be careful that we don't choke off the money that we use for the CIP um and I think that we have to I mean if you want to have that discussion how do we fund the CIP uh but you know depending on interest income for CIP is is is not a great idea um and we do need to budget uh to on how we're going to fund free cash so I just think this is something we need to be really careful with i m just you make a really good point that the freec cash comes from partly from underestimating um uh uh revenue or overestimating expenses uh on the in the operating budget but the primary driver of this really big number is one-time money uh the interest rates and uh and building permits in this particular year other years been other factors they're not predictable and say you don't ever want to you don't ever want to rely on for next year's operating incenses on one time money from last year well within a range I about the differen between 600,000 or million yeah that's but but there is a predictable change in uh interest colle the same argument we were making with our that was you know we've had this money for you know two two plus years now it's going away and um you know I'm glad that we didn't you know spend it on you know that were recurring you for the most part so sorry I was going to say if I could to remember that when we're looking at that 20% Target you know that and we're trying to get up to the 33% what's now the 33% median the amount of unspent free cash goes towards that calculation so you know when we're you know it's when we look at ourselves as a an almost $400 million entity and and we're looking at looking at that part of part of the you know the recommended commitment to get there is 6.3 million dollar ready for stabilization but part of it part of that calculation is also unspent free cash so so I just want to you know sort of say that out loud but that's that's that's part of where we're looking at and and meeting those metrics they meting the C okay good no go ahead just saying I agree with Paul that we want to be very careful want to choke off how we help fund the CIP and that these are based on just being pragmatic on something that's non-scientific that we don't have an absolute guarantee in terms of what will come in where I agree with John though is I do think we want to look at historic patterns and that's what informed my question regarding the special use money and how much of that is discretionary and how much of it is we had an unanticipated need and obviously each year the unanticipated needs will be different but we can look back historically and if we see going back 10 years that unanticipated needs were 1.8 million I don't know what it is just throwing the number out there and at the rest of this discretionary that would help inform the conversation about whether we're meeting our benchmarks whether those benchmarks should ship other people want to take a break I have one more does that make sense by the way I one question to something you just say sure do do we have a list of the communities that uh Triple A and their Reserve um number we did I mean the interesting to see who who are really competing with I mean I know Newton's won but yeah they're not like B [Music] like um so so this is uh this is just the um representation graphically of what we've been talking about yeah as far as getting as far as far as maintaining at least the 20% of U 20% of Prior year net revenues uh in un reserved in stabilization so that we can continue to meet that um so we are you know we don't yet know where that median will be right in in this year um we'll get that information as we get it from 15 um but but we know that the commitment that is recommended here will you know continue to to move us up from the second of the last up in the one question and this this follows on to what David said and I I'm glad David mentioned you know the difference between being cautious and and what John's point is we we do have historical data this a little bit of a talky stick here um you know we've said we've not set a policy I think think is like that's we we modified the policy and it looks like we were kind of working towards that anyway but I think the important thing here is that this money comes from through cash so it's not like it's operating funds and we're funding these fund balances right but one of the first Cuts is we make sure that we meet you bench Bu from free cash which is number one in the priority it's number one of the priority list so um which is one time money uh which is I think important to know and that you know if if we decrease free cash um you know we're we're first eating into the ability to do parks and like projects uh that that that we're doing you know funding some some items for maintenance things but we would the last thing we would is this this is the most important and our goal is 20% so we've been at 23% what that so we were at 23% right our goal is at 20% if you recall the the board also adopted as part of the policy some um you know some expectation that we' be getting towards the um I'm sorry the word the wording but the wording was the effect that you know was the goal of of of reaching those news and I want to I just want to connect back to a narrative that was set last year that I think we need to manage right there was a narrative uh that was coming from uh member of the community um that was claiming we were you know unrealistically over uh budgeting these fund reserves right uh and and that that money could have been used instead for operation and I think it had to do with schools remember remember they came someone came and us to to ra essentially raid funds to and I think it's really important that we help educate the community that um we because this is one-time money um we do not we do not want to and we should not use those funds for ongoing operations because the one time money coming from through cash is not cons it's not going to um and these percentages are important peopley I just think it's important so that we don't lose the community on some of these things if they get confused and they see that's we're getting signals from the ratings agencies but this is an area where we could be stronger so that's why we're making okay it's not just should be thatly the 90s um we were spending more we spending [Music] by Rich white to contr problem what wind up happening start and our facilities fall apart fire high school has all serious problems that resulted from when times were good have oper times bad have cut the and so what came out of that were the first iterations of these policies Anders along with thec some some of that um spending of money as you got it was a hangover from the impact of proposition to and a half right which passing what 82 something like that and caused a a lot of were forced to cut their budget and SC for whatever funds they could to keep operating going and as I say there's a b of to handang over the last two about 10 years so final point because you know I am not known to be a free spender um and that isn't my intent um if we look at how we are spending the free cash when it's right there in front of us um every one of those items could be a chalk that we make when we put together our budget for the year CIP well every one of them yeah it's a choice on the CIP not in the operating budet yeah we'll be talking more about that at the end of the present because I think that you know there are things that we need to consider as we're managing this defic which is fairly large so yeah so uh and you know all I'm saying is to the extent that the budget um if if we have the ability to actually make the choice to do these items in our budget that would be my first choice as opposed to let's continue our practices of underestimating some revenues and underestimating some spending um and then there'll be a lot of leftover money at the end of the year and then it has to go into some stuff John if you move I'm sorry can I if you if you move if you move projects CIP money from CIP into the operating budget you're going to increase the deficit it's just it's at simp if we cannot move my over you know I mean we could I guess we could it's obviously a choice I didn't say theit I said take the money we're allocating to the CIP as a consequence of the waterfall of the fee cash and since we if if if we had a more perfect you know process and could sort of see the future a little bit better we could say we're going to add $9,600 th000 to the CIP in the budget at the beginning of the at the beginning of the process not if if we're lucky enough to end up with you know blah blah blah blah blah and then there's 9 million for CIP that's what we'll have for CIP that's all but you're I think you're mischaracterizing what he's done it's not a matter of deliberately underestimating it's a matter of estimating and then stuff happens and you just don't you know so two years in a row we've been over 20 million we years a row we' never had those kinds of numbers that's right we never had those kinds of num and there's no reason whatsoever to think that they'll continue no no but let's figure out what we think we'll think um do you want to take a pause before we e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we are back okay so uh L covered the revenue side of the forecast and and now we're turning to expension so the first chart that you see on the slide here just illustrates that you know if you youve got salaries which are over 50% of our our overall budget and then obviously benefits combined for another 21.4% so most of our money is in people that's where all the services are that's who makes the town operate um you that's that's a large piece of our our budget go ahead and turn the next uh slide so then we also um we would exercise in our budget annually to show a ful allocated general fund budget so you look at the um expenses that are provided uh on behalf of the school um every year we report at the end of the year report all the Departments submit what they spend on on behalf of the schools we project that into the budget going forward so the fal 25 projected uh education budget in actuality is about 59.3% um that's not to be confused with the 6040 split that everyone hears about for the CL School partnership it just so happens if this number is is very similar um just to illustrate um the L area of the budget once we um cover tools that um benefits followed by Public Safety Etc can I ask a question go up simar we had a little sidebar a few minutes ago um so the the blue the blue piece for Education 59.2% this is actually what we're this is what we're planning right so this was projected in pical 25 based on the reporting from the prior calendar okay so this isn't Town School partnership no no this is just the town expenses reported to us on behalf of schools projected into the fiscal 25 budget kind of added to what their allocation was um we pull out the things that we know are funded like crossing guards are technically in police but they support the schools and things like that so kind of to give you a better representation of where the resources are okay thank you uh so go to the next slide uh so this just shows um the the growth in fiscal 26 so you can see that uh the school budget currently uh grow projected at $8.8 million followed by our Deb service budget a lot of that is related uh to the de soluions funding online um then we have Town departments benefits uh special Appropriations we can go ahead go to next slide um School split so this is the second year that we put the slide out there to kind of show the way that the phone works where you have your Revenue you have your fixed costs which are primarily Debt Service and um one second [Music] I we are back on okay um so you essentially you take your revenues you fix costs which are mostly um your CIP your debt service cost your benefits cost um and then that provides what's available in revenue and so you can see that um after deducting your F cost we've only got 4.4 million which to distribute p schools and so the way that the formula works is that you take the prior year allocation um last year's allocation is 4159 you apply that to the number but then there are also adjustments that are made for shared services so uh as an example any growth in uh repair and maintenance gets deducted any growth in payroll purchasing it utilities um and then we're also needed to make an adjustment so that the schools see the benefit of the flow year two year three override funds in fiscal 26 um so that shows what is available to and schol and so that's part of what is causing the deficit is that we don't have enough Revenue to support the projectes question so um this is blown up a little bit it's not on the zoom it's really small but um thank you so much so the the school number of for FY 26 of 131 it's called 140 million um that is the number which is from the Town School partnership that we last year we got into trouble right so this we're publishing this number that it's aund we have $140 million based on our current projections for the schools now the Six Million deficit that you started with what 10 slides ago yes is that against this number so yeah against that number so 139 short what they actually made by about $6 million right remember that the $139 $140 million is not the totality of what the schools have because they have other sources of fund right but it's that's what comes out of the well out of the operating so the so the hund are they asking so the 6 million deficit for the schools is that in totality of their budget or just against 139 million3 that's the same thing it doesn't make it's really both yeah right that that's just my point is that're they're forecasting a $6 million looking at the totality of the budget or looking at this whatever it is it's a $6 million deficit right because their is there could their budget be more than uh above the Six Million do they have other other budgets that they're so they're still kind of assessing the request from the each of the schools so there there projections could change um this is the preliminary number we okay and we don't and and this I'm sorry get this for not for a minute but this this we got ahead of ourselves last year I think or behind so the 139 million um and I know you're not speaking for the schools they not here but is this basically you know level of service is the same with steps and lanes and all that stuff that's both into it or essentially what the formula provides and obviously I think the the override projections were higher so we're it's we're actually falling short where we thought we would be able to provide in terms of Revenue so that's a piece of the deficit about $3 million is driven by that and then the rest is given by their expenditure so the steps and Lan part that's the school's budget that's the Six Million that they yeah so so they look at they look at their budget and then they say well okay if we get 140 million 139 mil 600,000 from the town There's the $6 million missing so we need to wait and see what what what is what's making up their total budget well how much growth how much is steps in how much is required level of service forance yeah but that's up to them because if we raise that number yeah we take something out of the operating bud I agree with you I'm just I'm just trying to understand something yes um just a point I want to make actually um because um we're all you know looking at the chart for this year I'm looking at the chart for this year and the comparative charts for last year the comparable charts for last year so if I could just cite a couple of numers um the the school increase last yearend projected um was 7 million this year it's 8 89 sorry um uh so they they're up they're projected increases from 7 to 8 um the town town uh increase last year was 3.7 uh this year 3.0 so the town expenditure growth um compared to last year is down uh and then Debt Service compared to last year uh last year was 2.2 and this year it's 7.1 so I think people can assume that uh that increase that level of increase in debt service has impact where in our ability to fund services but maybe it does and maybe it doesn't and that that's what I want to get at um because this gets to Deb exclusion and um if you have a debt exclusion for a given amount um does the debt exclusion cover the interest payments on that debt yeah um so it's it's part of the growth you see in Revenue so about 7 of that is related to the Deb station and then of the non- departmental about $7 million of that is directly the Deb service so when when you know people hear I'll just pick a number out of the you know let's say you know $200 million exclusion on the ballot okay um is it the case that that's the amount by which we will end up um spending as a result of the approval by the voters or is it the case that 200 million plus the annual interest payments on 200 million is what so I'm I'm not sure whe whether de exclusion questions as as presently worded on ballots really Express what people are voting to spend because it says spend a certain amount of money then it turns out we spent that amount of money and the interest on it over 20 years doesn't just the interest go on to the tax L right and it's not $200 million but that that that people pain for in in the practice but the de and over time it's going to equal p back back to more than 200 million well we we borrow 200 million as by the you voters um and and and you know raiseed 200 million for the 20 borrow but because that decision was made by the voters we also feel the impact for the next 10 15 to 20 years of the interest payments on that which which obviously we can't borrow to make interest so I some little confused I mean you the taxpayers are not going to pay the $0 million any more than you pay your $5 million mortgage up front I mean it's a Deb service no but but it's just like if you if you take out a Mor MH you will see a number for how much you are taking out to pay for you know the purchase of your house and if it's a I think it's under the law they also have to show you over the lifetime of the mortgage what if is going to cost you and that's a different number and it's usually much higher I mean it's always much higher sometimes it's almost double yeah um but we don't do that on the ballot well but John that people make decisions borrowing and what it's going to cost to to service that borrowing which includes principal and interest they don't you know and and that's generally how people end up making the decision you know can they afford or not so maybe you are making a good point but it might be we may want to do a better job expressing what the annual tax you know annual tax increase is going to be versus saying it's just a $200 million school right we do prob we did we we tell people what our aggregate debt is Right which is a relevant number but you know in terms of what they pay here our year oh if I could there's a there's a calculator that we put up to this this override and I believe the override for the last several that where one may enter their property address and find out what their projected uh increase will be very it may vary slightly because we don't know what what precisely the interest rate will be on that debt INF it's actually issued but it's close yeah I think actually that that that calculator informs people a lot more effectively if they to use it then what what was done like 10 or 15 years ago and that sort of facility wasn't available when people would you know this is the this is the percentage increase on average that but it varies as you said it varies depending on the kind of property you own and this SL so um you so dep service obviously is a big p um of that grow uh above the line as we refer to is the six cost above the line before funding Town School um so benefits is the the biggest chunk of that as well so 92.1 million uh for fisal 26 um it was a little stunn to hear the 12% growth in health insurance um kind of hoping that we would have an increase that would be a little bit less than that last year we were run 10% um but we're seeing kind of a postco effect of people who had delayed their treatment are now kind of back to the doctors and um that's kind of what we're seeing in the r there as well um so our P schedule still is still on track looking to fund that 2030 is our year um that we're targeting for funding and then you have these other um accounts that are for benefit related our workers comp Public Safety Dy um Medicare Etc uh for a growth of 4.1% so that that explains the mystery to me because if you go back to SL 17 this graph here y um uh benefits account for 21.4% of the toal but that that number isn't just Healthcare that is oped intentions and so for the whole thing y okay that that is f right um so then we can go on to the next slide which just talk a little bit about the assumptions made into these accounts so currently assuming here five new subscribers uh 15 on the town side 20 on the school side we'll be talking more with the schools on whether that 20 uh can be revised so that drives an to 4.4 million for Group Health each point um equates to about $357,000 so you know if we're uh at 11% instead of 12 there'll be 357 more to distribute cing school um pensions our funding schedule uh is an increase of $289,000 um only because we used free cash last year to kind of help boost the pension systems um knowing that we are very close to that 2030 Target um we also know that as our um as our schedule gets reevaluated we're on a two-year cycle for um re reeval in our pension funding schedule um that the shocks to the system will be able to be smoothed out in a longer fashion anymore so um we put 2 million of free cash to kind of help um with any kind of unanticipated activity uh for tensions as well um op uh we're $5.2 million um we also used free cash last year to kind of um bring additional funding to that account um we had paused during covid um and we are uh continuing to look at special uh Revenue to also help well a question before sure brought this slide I just want to make sure because you you you quickly went by what's above the line and this is all above the line and that's meaning that we take this we pay this money before we then allocate the money between the town and the school is is this all town or is there also School costs of it's both it's both town and school benefits it is both although teachers um pensions are funded by the state so it's just for any noner related so help the Healthcare in here okay um so I had a constituent asked me a question that I sort of could answer but you probably do a better job um in terms of pension so we're spending that much money on pension some portion of it is patch up in some portion of it C can you is there um can you give us a approximate split find yes uh sorry I I can get you an answer in a minute so but but but as you said there the pay as you go costs and then there are and then there's the full funding I'm just interested in approximately you know yeah so um give me one minute okay and I I have one more question related to my earlier question um and I know we I think we've done this before I'm not sure if we present it in the budget book but do we are we able to present a fully allocated uh cost structure of you know time versus school is it because it's very difficult to know what percentage of the budget the Town School partnership will say 6040 or something like that but it's actually it's more than that right that's the pie chart that we had um that had the 59.2% that's the action yeah okay well it's a projections so it's basically we take the data that we get reported yeah uh so this past year we got in the summer we get numbers for f schol year 24 yeah um Town expenditures on behalf of school when we're building the 26 budget we'll project that into the budget items that we have and that will give us kind of a new pie chart okay so that pie chart was combination of budgeted numbers and then projected and you're and you're allocating them to the okay appear in the budget um in the fy2 budget and you'll see it again in the 2 budget okay there's a form that we file with the Department of uh Early Education that this that that that 59.2% is is explained in excruciating detail okay so that that number is available does more or less match the the C partnership so to answer your question Mike uh in for example in fiscal 26 the normal cost that is to say the ongoing cost outside of catchup with the unfunded liability is 68 million the the unfunded liability that we with our cat up is $ 33.1 million for a total um determined contribution of 4 okay we go thank you um so this just shows the growth in our group health budget I like to point out that little dip that you see around FIS 11 is that's the year we joined the GIC so the GIC has been pretty beneficial in terms of trying to keep the rat relatively um moderate as we're just in this period of you know kind of seeing some pretty substantial increases uh going forward so 24 or 25 and 26 it looks like you're projecting the same sort of jump out to 30 so I've got um so I've got 12% protected for 26 10% for 27 and then nine and then eight so I'm kind of trying to drop it off hoping that it won't kind of sustain but um it looks like looks like we need a log stale okay Melissa if if we didn't join the GIC what would that CH with um added $5 million for that number and then 10 15% because the the GIC we say five million going in but then the rates every year were like four five you know in some cases even lower than that so we have the benefit of being in a larger pool okay um where as what we were by ourselves you know we would maybe see a good year for a rate increase if switch providers and got it for that long year but then they're going to tatch it up at some point okay your decision yeah although the only thing is is that you know when we joined the rules around F he were not were different and so we had we have an 83 177% premium Shi but where if we had waited a few years and then joined we wouldn't have needed to do that so um we're almost paying a little bit more than we could have but H is C um we go on to the next slide so then this just shows the oped funding plan um where we use 500 of free cash in 25 we grow um operating re Revenue by 250,000 every year um and then assess um from the U some special l c being one of them um so that that's the current for op we can go on to the next slide uh pensions so this just shows our schedule um the only change from this year to last year is that we were able to lower the rate of return and keep schedule the chain which is great um for 626 that means $2.8 million increase so then we can go to the next slide um I've used this slide to kind of illustrate the impact of benefits on just our overall Revenue growth so I took what we usually get out of the top two and a half Pats of the the levy going up and then appli the benefit budget against it so you can see how much like can 26 benefit consume 70% of what we would be getting out of the top two and a half um and then you can see that it's kind of varies year to year and then it drops in 2030 and that is just because our schedule is changing in 2030 once we start to become fully funded so that means that that little take on the top has to fund all the other increases in expenses uh Union contracts inflation the whole everything else has to come out of that bill yes okay this is this is why God created [Music] over that includes the two and a half% not the not new growth and not other Revenue growth but just to kind of illustrate how much benefit does kind of consume the overall budget for sure um you know it's you know four over $4 million um of grow in 26 um and this is also the point in the presentation where we remind people that you know we really ideally want to take some additional capacity from paying off tensions and direct that to OPB because that is also another huge unfunded liability no current mandate to do that but we think that it's down practice giving um so um a component of the forecast is also the CIP I do have a separate presentation on the CIP which hopefully won't take us long um and it will be more fun to talk to project but this just kind of provides some highlights from what you will see in the presentation um we have our .6% policy which provides $1.6 million uh to support the CIP uh then we also have some new debt servers coming online for Lo andison award Park traffic signal and then obviously the Deb exclusions are also coming online as well um some new projects that we'll be talking about um kind of to David's point about kind of new unforeseen new L SCH Grounds was pulled forward into the plan I actually visited the site over the summer um and it's definitely at a point where we can't really really any longer to make those in so that into the plan um and then in the oute we've got some work around L Anderson the D C foot bridge and then also Washington State so we can go ahead and go to the next slide uh not appropriated so these are the things that we Grumble about because we can't really control them they kind can we go back one second minute can we go back to the fire stations for a second so I had I had a in-depth conversation with the chief about fire station restoration redoing them and there's going to be a period of time where you know a fire station is being redone we're taking cost for that but the companies won't be there and so I assume that I don't know how much it cost to operate a fire station but I assume that we would get some savings out of one less building to heat and pool and Electrify and all that um I I don't know how much that is but assume it it would help us a little bit right so we um Charlie worked very closely with Charlie Simmons um and on the timing of those projects when we expect the building to come online what the estimate is provide usually the engineers that work the project provide us an estimate of what we can be assuming for utilities so that work is continuing and you know as we understand the timing of when the fire stations will be taken online we'll adjust to the utility uh projections based on okay okay thank you okay go on uh so non appropriated um these are things that are right off the top of the chry sheet uh mdta assessment being the largest followed by our County assessment as well um we are hearing some grumblings about um the county and the retirement uh assessment that may uh actually impact the number that we have right now um but right now we're kind of assuming a 2% increase in all of these as well um our overlay is our tax reserve and then we have um ter she offet which actually go to support the library as well so you go ahead go slide um so this is our current Gap in terms of uh expenditures and revenues um it's closing the Gap in 2030 is just the lead as to the pension schedule um and you can see that you know this is a continual problem that we have where our revenue is not enough to meet our spend of growth um go on to the next slide so then sanitation is kind of an added layer on top of what we're talking about because we are looking um to change the way that the model is currently working um kind of using out contractors to um to provide the service there's a large cost associated with that but we also feel that the operations are at a point where um we may not have a choice um because it's becoming extremely hard to fill all these positions and keep the services going so um we are wanting to kind of have continued discussions with the counc partnership um we're looking at potentially raising avue to offset some of the increase that we're seeing uh for sanitation costs and um we we feel that that Revenue needs to support the operations and the directly to offset the grow and cost um we're also going to be reducing some SES so we also wanting to advocate for that reduction to um help offset some of the increases that we're seeing in these CL um we are looking at potential credits for for equipment and trying to decide whether or not that's something that we also want to kind of take one time and then realize that we're going to have to figure it out in 27 um and and then obviously you know status quo is is likely unable to kind of provide the services that we need um we would likely be forced to kind of put together an emergency contract if we can't provide the services if we're still struggling to fill um the slots right so uh just to make sure that it's explicit what we're saying is that if we increase fees in sanitation that the increase the totality of the increase would go to the town operating budget before that's what we would recommend that the fees would directly offset the growth where whereas previously if we had included those fees they would be could could that I know we've done Enterprise accounts uh for that can you do that with sanitation you can um I think that the um you know we still have a general fund subsidy so you know typically what we try and do is have the the revenue support um 75% of the operations and then the general fund is still providing a 25% subsidy we we've talked about that with aarin and Lincoln I think has had some experience with Enterprise funds doesn't sound like it might be worth the squeeze um but um it is something that we're you know continuing to popiz can I ask what Lincoln why is it not worth the squeeze well I mean to the Melissa's point I think the operating budget the fact that um that there's an operating subsidy I think is one factor right so so because typically when youan out it is self-contained so for example the few PHS that we have now water seal and golf are are self-contained um but we could you know we we we could do it I I also think it's um the in my experience particularly with respect to um the sanitation it's a little bit more difficult because the cost of disposal are vary in a way that um for example water and SE don't when we're part of the MW so if you have a large increase in hauling costs year to year yeah which you know certainly Mr sh was you know more knowledgeable about you know those big variations but but those are typical where you have these this kind of variation the the the rid payers can can experience that that same fluctuation much more through an Enterprise fund because because the subsidies but you but you can have an Enterprise fund and still subsidize it but the the the nice thing about Enterprise fund is it would bring direct clarity about what it's how much it's costing us and how much we're able to fund through the operation for sanitation and and then of course maybe we do have but if we could move to a point where you know through contract negotiations and also fees we'd have some balance in that it's just it's just a thought rather than it's it's kind of we don't really know right now you guys know but question I would just add that op from an operational perspective I think we have talked about this with the commissioner a little bit and um as it stands right now to get to keep sanitation going they're pulling employees from other divisions to DCW so there's there's some benefit having sanitation service en within exactly um you you know the the troubles they face with filling vacancies and and putting people on trucks would be toold or greater well but once you once you move to the new model you wouldn't have that issue but you right but you have to assume the cost of whatever it would take to get that many have that many positions and have them filled that you don't have right now but but the model Char sry the model that I understand wouldn't wouldn't be dependent upon sta right the model is different okay I hear what you're saying you're suggesting the Enterprise fund with With Private Collection not not Enterprise fund doing what we're doing now yes got that's what I going to do yeah all right okay okay um so then just to kind of um talk a little bit about some of the if you go to the next slide so um the top is kind of you know some increases that we're seeing with the status quo um this is kind of just overall increases that would be needing to be absorbed as part of the existing deficit um on top of that you know there's a $300,000 increase in uh Capital that we would need to fund um because the equipment is about to be need in need of refreshment um and we had talked about um you know when we first bought this the equipment we allowed the pcw capital outlay number to grow and then we brought it back down once the payments are made um so that's kind of a cost pressure that would be happening regardless of whether or not um you know we were changing the model um and then we have some um under the private collection model some of the additional costs but then there are um what we would see coming from a rate increase um employe reduction and estimate of benefit savings um and then we likely would get credit um for the equipment that we do have that is in good condition so um you know we do we do think that there is an additional cost that will be added to the deficit but we think that we would be seeing some form of growth in in either direction whatever which whatever pass the end that going down um so that the numbers are pretty close that we probably see maybe a $200,000 shift in projected let me ask a question first I just want to make a point that reduction 94 times equivalence is not loss of job that's our intent is to make sure that they can shift to other open positions that we if we're going to push this on the town that's an important d i see the footnote about the the potential expansion request for 300,000 of least Capital Equipment has there been any thought into purchasing the equipment instead because that's the type of line item where onetime funds do make sense well you're feeling that the fly we'll talk about um that is something that we are considering because um you know obviously that's what we've been getting for lease cost have changed so as we're looking at areas to try and help close this gap which is pretty substantial both town and school um you know these are some of the things that we're talking about you know we grow our op funding by $250,000 that's coming from operating Revenue that was referring we could level fund it to provide a little bit of a leas how long we want to do that that's something that we could talk about refu Fe we just talked about you know we didn't have a refu increase for past year um we're definitely going to need one next year in order to help with the growth that we're seeing in transation um we did buy some equipment in uh with the last uh iteration of arpa that we could pull out of the operating budgets in 26 to provide some relief not something that we really want to do because we know we're going to need to build that back in but it is on the list of options that we have um your override commitments we are in year three of the override do we need to take a pause on following this implementation of some of the things that we need to do uh especially if we're looking to reduce other areas of the budget that might be more of a priority for the board something that we need to think about um you know that's also the question about Capital you know we could pull back on Capital um you six 6.6% of operating revenue is funding our CIP given that we have a strong free tax certification Maybe may we can pull back on that provide a little bit of relief maybe we can pull our Capital outlay put it into the CIP these are kind of things that would been talking around um but then also knowing that most of our expenditures are in Personnel that we need to consider you know looking to reduce current positions potentially looking at we're looking at vacancies currently we're looking at potentially a hiring free to help maybe cre up some additional uh vacs as well um you know because it's just a pretty substantial number that we're trying to manage right now when we talked about um risting override commitments and one of those things that as a board we've been very um very committed to is making sure that our salary for non-union level management meets the med get to the medium and would that that's a commitment that personally at least I would be very unhappy here me uh and I wonder what the what commitments can you give us some sense of what commitments might be post on so I mean I think we need to talk about um kind of grow that we normally apply to override funded um accounts so you know we got our repair Mains that grow anually we have our um services that grow um you know whether or not we level fund some of those things or you know whether or not the override money can can go to those accounts so that's that's all right but we're not talking about the salary L I think we're you we're pretty much almost done with the salary study so you know we probably won't have any access the incl set but I think we're in a good place with what we've been able to achieve with what we have but those salary increases that came from the override yeah are now built into those right I just and I I'm I'm gonna maybe reinforce a little bit what you said you talk about salaries but you know I think we need to be very careful M about setting an expectation with the public with the voters that when they approve an operating override that this is what they're going to get and you know when we when we change that um just remember that I I believe that unless you have a really really good reason and they agree you're going to break trust and when you ask them again they're going to go I don't know can I count on it so I think we need to be very very cck about how we use the funds or real estate funds in the oper we should not uh we should be very right I agree I agree right so that is the end of the forecast the uh forecast presentation the CIP is next so if you need a break we can do that now or if you want to keep going um 10 12 so um your presentation going be long I don't think it will take that long we've talked a lot some of before after lunch that's the question well no we have to do it now but right I think another an hour to go through you know ring at a certain yeah we just had a break unless someone needs to and is begin to talk faster Melissa um this is very very helpful I wish I had it couple days before I know I know it's difficult you it's very difficult to sort of go for me anyway to uh learn the stuff as I'm going along um don't have exp think about it look into my files and see what you should have spent one I want to say last last night at the comprehensive plan steering committee meeting um everything was printed on big paper this is no but but it was actually readable they used maybe 11 by 17 it was big paper that just made it usable if we could do these charts and stuff um you know there are people who wear glasses well even with the glasses I can't Grandma read so I did blow up some of it Paul but not all of it what's that I did blow up some of it no but you know what I'm saying I'm trying to criticism it's just there's an opportunity it could be a little bit more expensive on bigger paper but so we can go ahead and go to the first slide this is a a quote about the importance of capital planning from the I uh you keep moving forward this one um so our our CIP is a 2226 million year plan getting 31 um just some highlights we've got um a lot of money coming for uh traffic time bike access ovement stre Rehabilitation obviously the Washington Street uh Rehabilitation is streets program is uh ongoing and we're we're continuing with design the construction is is going to be starting and uh approximately 6 28 to 29 um and then I'll continuing kind of the regular funding that we have for our parkks and our infrastructure and our it we go on into the next one uh so these are some of the major projects uh fire apparatus rehab we have a schedule for refurbishment of our fire equipment depending on if it's a ladder or an engine so we have that plugged into through the plan um we have uh water and suar improvements about $33 million we' talked already about Lincoln School grounds another large uh Park uh renovation project $6.5 million schol athletic fields um obviously that's a there as well um and then picking up Paul has a quick question um so the uh the foot Bridge uh that we are are working I don't see it on the list here we'll get to it get okay could you explain GG's Park what that's going to be a late it was I know it was meting already funded the design so this is the construction of the impy can deal with the um water secul I think that's part of well yeah um go on um so these are kind of the ongoing recurring projects that we have in the CIP uh we had taken a pause on uh roof and Mason rework um given the staffing issues in the building department um but now that's coming back online kind of Full Throttle um and we set investments in U Life Safety HBC Firearms of the bread and butter of our CIP quick question Lissa the Washington Street rehab complete streets that 39.6 million isn't a large portion of that going to be underwritten by other funds or is that our portion no when we get to the slide point that out um so then you can see um this is investment in schools a little misleading because it is County on school um you know it is a work that is done both by the building department dep and um mostly building department you can see um we've got a lot of great investment for hbac equipment um we'll be able to put a lot of money towards elevator Renovations $1.1 million um that's kind of the benefit of the enhanced freecast number um another good thing that we were able to do under Life Safety is um Charlie had requested an emergency generator about 800 $650,000 we were able to pull that forward in the plan so that's kind of another benefit of having a strong where is they going um I'm not sure where about going um I think it's kind of to I have to ask him specifically that's going to be but um we were able he had requested it in the oute but we were able to accommodate it right I'm just wondering what the support what what's classing capacity now so those are the leases at the temple for the pools would be why did I think they were going to consolidate [Music] another so they have been reduced over the years Clark Road obviously has rolled off but they still have two that are remaining that are part thank you by the way the generat be one of the schools or I'll have to clarify that with Char I don't recall uh the next um area is investing in the park so you can see um the new linoln school grounds the 970 that's coming into and then $4.8 million in the bond funded school project there um in the out years you can see the fol grounds you can see those work at the Riverway Park um Juniper Street uh playground is another area in the out as well and then obviously additional investment in LS as well um keep rolling next one this just shows the fire apparatus uh rehab replacement schedule in the further out years we do have three pieces of equipment that will be needed replacement to an estimate currently about $1.2 million but that's beyond 2031 so that's kind of in the out years of the de um and then in fiso 31 you can see that we're looking to do a whole whole change of the um s the reading apparatus program to the fire department 1.25 million a quick question Melissa sure um so I mean Bernard I'm sorry may I ask a question let me do this to me by the way you don't do that to them um so uh the a ladder truck for S CL has been brought up over and over and I I had a long conversation with the chief he's not here but um about you know while the fire stations are being refurbished actually having a ladder truck is going to be closer just the way things are going to be shut down and rebuild but eventually um you know it's it's likely that we're going to need a ladder truck and sell book line if we build a taller building up in you know West we've got you know um quite development going on in Hancock Village um I don't see that anywhere uh here and it's not even on the list of consideration when do we start having a serious conversation about fire coverage a lad company ladder truck and self perform so I would think it's a CH good recommended studies that we would use help us provide the data to support that because I think that's part of what we don't have with data to support we have a lot of anecdotal discussion about what's needed yeah but I think we need you know our data and we'll learn a lot from the renovations as well in terms of coverage and from a and from a a timing perspective knowing that the renovations are happening and and he said that there would be some coverage because of that um what would be the lead time for a study to be completed in order to get something into the CIP I have to talk of the she okay I just I think we I think we need to start having that serious conversation about when to begin that because I know it's it's a concern for everybody um and it's a concern for his that eventually we're going to need it just question is one yeah than you go next one um so this is mostly gpw so we have our project uh new project that wasn't in the plan I'm trying to apply uh $500,000 for vision zero action plan uh priority segments design and implementation um enhanced funding for bike access um continuation of the parking leader replacement program um School streets pedestrian and bike safety liting program uh and then obviously we have uh our street weh have um boosted good override funds but then also additional funding add to support that as well um the David craft is that what you were asking Paul so we've got 13.5 million currently assumed if we get a grant that will provide some relief that we won't need to fully borrow for that um and then Washington Street you can see that there's $29 million to see means that it's um either state or federal fund so we're ping a $29 million MK coming from the state the 4 million that we see in the out years inal 29 that's actually the piece of Washington stre that we agreed that we were going to renovate without um State participation so that will kind of come after the state work is done will complete the the rest of the remaining yeah uh going back to the Davis C foot bridge is that 13.5 the estimate of what it would cost for us at this point to build it or is that our portion of it no that's the full amount and so if we get a grant then we can reduce what we're currently projecting for Debt Service cost okay thank you okay so uh then we have um no no it's fine just continued investment in water resure uh water system improvements and waste water system Improvement so this is just a reminder of our um our funding policy for the CIP amended most recently at the last board treat to um account for the additional override funding that is supporting the C so what used to be the 7 and a half policy is now the 88.1% policy um so 6.6 of that is coming from the operating revenue and then we are using free pass to get to 8.1% um and then within that six 6.6% we want our debt Finance to be somewhere around four and a half and then the P Finance the revenue um C to be one and then so this is kind of what We're translating uh that policy into so we've get 22.3 million of Revenue Finance the um tax Finance is at $7.7 million preas 14.6 is a recommendation um I am holding back on allocating about two million of that into the plan until we kind of have a little bit more discussion with the board about potential options to help kind of provide operating relief that if we were you know I haven't kind of all allocated to specific project in case the board kind of wanted to kind to talk about potentially providing a little bit of Bel to the oper V yes uh so then this is our debt Finance portion of the CIP uh 14.7 is non debt exclusion related 29.2 is specifically debt exclusion related which you saw the slide in the earlier presentation that kind of itemized all those payments and then Enterprise funds about 2.7 yeah I'm really sorry you're just going real fast no I know um could you go back a slide for a second this kind of speaks to John's question uh Revenue Finance of 22.3 million for the CIP right the revenue portion and tax Finance of 7.7 so that's coming out of the that's coming out of the tax levy corre it's coming from the operating it's coming from the operating budget um but it represents the um Debt Service no it's it's a so the tax Finance can be both debt and cash projects do you know the breakout for that 14.7 is coming from the 6.6% policy okay sorry PR uh the free cash Finance didn't going back to SL 15 and the free cash in the fire clation it's two pieces Capital Improvements um coming out of cash and then additional c y those two together that that up I'm going to be really done for not this is important but this this is this this is important and and again I'm going back to John you raised this point about where does where does money come from um so the and I'm not advocating for this I'm just literally asking a question an option so please don't read into I have I have some objective here just to understand so the tax Finance of 7.7 million if if if we needed to fund an this isn't one time this is from the tax LEL okay so this in a budget year that we have had tough decisions to make we've pulled back the level and then said two years from now we're so so and again it's just so I understand where our choice is at in the future there is a lever here where we could reduce the 7.7 to fund our operations and it would not violate our principle of not using one time money for operations right we would we would it's it's recurring Revenue but with the expectation that we're going to want to build it back in I I understand but this but this just it's really important this 7.7 million tax finan for the CIP is a lever that we could pull to help close the operating Gap y okay thank you um so then this is similar to uh what Lin presented earlier about the allocation preast I will say that I did amend um this slide and then I didn't double back on the forecast because I have additional money going to the liability fund it doesn't change the numbers all that dramatically different um but um ENT essentially it's the same as what um since presented earlier so we can go on to the next slide um this is just another way of illustrating the policy so you can see the 6% or 6.6% provides 22.5 million of which 14.8 is is Debt Service and then 7.7 is Cash um and then free cash gets layer on top of that so instead of the 8.1 which is the policy Target we're actually at 10.9% uh of Prior year net revenue and then when you layer the debt exclusions on top of that it's 16.9 can I go back one more question D yes so going that I'm gonna stay on this for a minute y so the 7.7 million do we know that the SE is it is it possible because I know there's a choice but there's a bunch of also school projects in there right in CIP right so I mean literally if we were going to try to look at that number seriously not saying we should but if we did we would basically be going into the CIP and saying which items do we want to defer well except that I have not allocated to yet so okay that's I've given you a little bit of wiggle room you're not necessarily planing project okay okay so uh there's 2 million there's 2 million wiggle after 2 million then you'd be cutting okay sorry and is that two million for the unanticipated needs for these decisions so whether or not we wanted to pull lever and do this whether or not we want to take some Capital outlay move it into the CP this capacity to able to do that we talking about that potentially with some of the bigger pieces in DW um whether or not it's time to share the breathing room is the 2 million after that we're cutting it to the C okay but do we have an actual figure for unanticipated so for instance last year the schools for I think it was the first time in a decade or so had requested a reserve fund transfer at the end of the fiscal year uh due to some unpaid tuitions uh and some other issues of the Rose so is there a number that's budgeted as sort of a minimum that we want to hold on to for those type of situations y so we have a reserve fund and so the reserve fund has a targeted 1% all right but it's just a reserve fund it's not anything from the pre uh that is fun so 75% of the funding for the reserve fund is coming from the operating budget and then 25% of it is coming to so there's a few um go back to the free SL which I think there you go so so the 853 that that's fre cash supporting the 25% fing so this is just a summary of the components of the CIT projects and what pie is coming from property tax what pie is coming from C Cas um what what is bond finan is potential grants from the state and then obviously we have our Enterprise funds they also supporting projects as well and then you can see the keep going and for the audience at home we will be see all these materials online so you can look at them in more more detail I know there's a lot of people that are eagly awaiting a p CIP and I'm looking to make an appointment with the advisory committee to also go through this again in those as well so then the next one is just a breakout of um the category uh whether it be a facility repair uh infrastructure obviously 6% that that shows the strong support that we have for the roadway work uh and then parks in open spaces and other um uh this just shows our debt plan and so um this is what we're anticipating in terms of our borrowing schedule so you can see that this spring Lincoln and I will be borrowing for large L Woodland Road and then also the two get exping project as well and then you can see uh who else the plan the other projects what we're anticipating and then the timing of one we um looking to bring those on as well keep going these are the de exclusion projects the timing of those Cycles well the funds uh another illustration of how the 6.6% policy Works to balance between debt and cash so as you borrow more there's less available in cash um but it's kind of cap so it doesn't really kind of overall kind of selfed in that number keep going um this is just another illustration that shows Debt Service as a percentage of Revenue um and then all the down below there as well and I believe that might be the last slide in so I don't know did I stick on the you know I just I listen I um and Michael appreciate this because he was in business for a long time um you are our Chief Financial Officer you and and a good Chief Financial Officer uh knows how to plan for unexpected uh create reserves so that we have choices and I just want to recognize the remarkable job that you're doing I mean this I don't know if you changed the presentation from last year but these these charts uh pictorial graphs that show how things are funding is brilliant it's really really helpful U for me from the way that I like to see stuff but um I just want to recognize how important what you're doing is for us and the options that you give us I want say thank you thank you L I was just gonna say that I think combination the the three people we hav Char Charlie stuff is obviously in here but lination we never had something like that from the town from the before so yeah I we don't want to prong this and my question is somewhat just s definitional um but when when I see and I'm talking about the pie chart that explains C funding. and only see 22% funded to the property tax and then 14% funded through three Cash C gets me back to um this this uh you know what do we mean by fre CS ultimately you know free cash comes out comes out of the property tax revenues right um so I I want people I always Bridal at the otion that people think that some aspect of a funding of stuff that doesn't come out of their pockets it's not and you can also see in the out how I'm not building a high SE T number into the plan because I would rather add projects than full project way kind of setting an expectation as Paul says the CFO okay any other question question yes just one more so going back again to the unanticipated so you mentioned the 1% from prior um net your Revenue but that's for liability Reserve so that's Reserve has Reserve F has the same Target okay okay break for lunch thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e that isn't okay about the confusion no first of all I didn't do my QC on that I am I am not a robot there this is a to do installation unfortunately the notice that giv to a butter is listed the long dat and so yes you cannot um so what we brought to we do don't have to waste your time and their time is send the opportunity to present you any questions you may have concern if there are of the public that wish to be heard who are are here and have the right time all means but then we'll continue the hearing to the 7 so had wouldn't be a hearing well I mean technically can start in event that there is someone online gu I would call okay before before you start um I want to read a statement that um I was going to read at the beginning of the meeting but I wanted to make sure that Chad didn't have any um any comment um because want to make sure that I didn't say anything but can get a larger Target on my back than already is on it okay this has to do with immigration issues and I'm not going to read the whole statement but um Tiffany if you could post it on our our um web page okay that'd be great and Chad we going to give it to um to um so like I said basically just summarize it but um starts off by saying because the select for out outside outside of a posted meeting and issuing this important statement on my own behalf as chair of the S board I'm confident that it should that it sentiments are shared by other members of the collect board who May issue their own statements to the extent my comments do not reflect their own thinking and I'm making the statement now to give assurances to the many residents who have exess concerns for the welfare of our town when the next Presidential Administration comes to power in DC and just to summarize what you know the rest of the statement uh in it I urge the select board to reaffirm and republish the statement F board to be made on February 7 2017 uh which is a commitment to to be welcoming to all people who come to blook line and provide them all legal protections regardless of their immigration status um I also refer to general order number 43 uh titled Federal immigration enforcement as representing the town's ongoing commitment to resist any attempts to mandere our local public service agencies and resources the federal immigration uh enforcement which does not prevent us from uh uh from arresting and and dealing with serious criminals um I urge or I indicate that uh we are going to vote at our next meeting on an amendment to uh general order 43 to address issues of immigration raid that may be used to round immigrants and refugees here in Brooklyn and the role the police department should play and not uh providing support um or allowing you know I of whoever uh to um Commander the resources of our town for that purpose um but at the same time to provide safety ped support to people who may be around a race um and then I urge the select board to commit to providing protection to all persons in Brooklyn uh with respect to intending um Decisions by the federal government with respect of health services including Women's Health and idex Care um and women's rights to privacy concerning their reproductive health status and I uh further urge the select board to U provide all necessary protection to the lgbtq community um both respect to U misinformation or uh other things coming down from the federal government or uh with respect to threats from private individuals who may be flinking their actions in alignment with uh new federal policies as respect the LGB people particularly transgender uh people um and then I mention that will further protect and F our communi and those who preach me have threatened to carry out or commit acts of vience against same person in book L we is to say that what we've always been doing when when the threat you know the police department get gets involved and and and provide support uh both uh um in first support as well as TR uh to help uh um institutions um maintain their safety and then uh conclusion I say as we F an uncertain future we understand the fear felt by certain members of our community those individuals who know that the select board and the town of book line will take all necessary steps to protect them the select board will also ensure that General general order 43 has amended now Fe the policies that is designed to assur of Safety and Security of our residents and those persons temporarily visiting a faction to book line will be vigorously enforced so that's statement of mine that is issued to give people you know some assurance that we we are aware of potential uh threats that may be coming down from the Federal Government after January 20th and we will take whatever measures we can take to ensure people's safety uh and and um ensure that you our values and and procedures that we um have with respect to for example imigrant and refuges are car out so I'm asking tiany to post that on our web page and um you other St board members can can make their statements and and contradict or or agree with me as they you but that's that's my statement yes um is there not some um action that is that actually requires a vote of the board having to do with language that that exists certainly that might not Fally conformed to what you just describ and what we might need to revise well we're going to vote next week on uh the amendment to General Order 43 and that has to do with immigration rating yeah so that's what what it be vo I did mention that and is the proposed language of the amendment in your statement that that was in our package no it's not that was our package last week and and that and that was really narrow I mean there's a little bit of History here John in 200 I think it was 2005 Town Meeting voted a resolution um in support it wasn't um and then in 200 I think meeting took another V and then the select board at that time actually issued a statement right that was consistent with uh that Bo of time meeting um and I think which board should consider you know confirming or you know that that similar type of sentiment that was done in 2017 I appreciate your statement but I think that the board we should we should and that's what I ask I I my question if I may um but my recollection is at a PR meeting there was language involving Politics anded the police that we were being asked to vote was not wer we weren't ready but we weren't ready to vote this changes so we are going to some look look look at those changes and take a vote on those changes but the city council in Boston I happened to not this the other day um they passed the resolution with much the same certain point this and the distinction they drew um which I thought might be a useful one is that there there will be no cooperation on matters of civil uh law civil procedure um but that as in the past that there would be cooperation in the case of criminal enforcement and are we making that just in in my statement I make that statement and I think that in no 43 that Extinction is there that that you know if there's a rest warrant um or cause to make arrest someone may a serious criminal violation um would do it yeah is there even if that means you know during them over yeah and is there AC you need to take to make clear that that's for the rear drawing in terms of our role of police commission is Vis the actions of the police department so we we'll talk about this on the 17th in more detail yes the way that the new general 43 position there's no major changes in policy there it's that keep individuals that are subject to civil detainers only will not be kept solely because of the request from the federal government on yeah um if they are being held on criminal charges if they are being held pursu to a subpoena or a federal warrant or any of those things and there no discre we have to we're required to hold that person yeah but it's the only if for example someone the traffic offense is is briefly detain they question about whe come up but for some reason you know run I the federal government say hey would you hold this person for a couple days till we can come pick them up that warrants [Music] us sorry have we received input from the police department on this I didn't we have I think I just want to say before we keep going this is not noticed in our agenda um I don't think have people ready to talk to us I are we bouncing out a little bit of of what's publicly noticed we no for you as a stat it's not we're to deliberate let's let's hold yeah sorry okay all right moving right along um so next noise byw waiver you're gonna give us some background on this related to the installation of train at at The Spar school which will be a pretty noisy uh operation but must be done it's a lot simpler than that and a lot less dtive my name is Andy ban I'm [Music] with the build can builds a superintendent can describe what the is going to be yeah so we we have to mobilize it's it's a very long high activator off the building you get theight of the building and get so that ex has to beem Liv over the road so it's actually Bren down components sh over thead and some there's only one component of that that sh between the hour 1port so that's all really we're asking for is that sometime between 4 and 6 a.m. thatu will arrive on site shut off and won't do anything until 7 a.m. which onh at that point the equipment that will be excavator and know but at that point everything will happen inside and so is a trucking will pull in direct or is it have back uh it should be able to pull direct down School Street asking questions I knew um the point is so basically we're pulling a big truck in onto the site trying and that truck has 90 possible noise no operation of assembling the equipment pardon the overall operation of assembling the equipment can be but not it's more about the hours that will work just that that to be off the but the Assembly of the equipment is going to happen after 7 a.m. you're basically saying we may make some noise between 4 six construction related noise of bringing the thing in opening the gates running the truck and parking it that's that's the extent of what you're asking for to be done during the for the noise bylaw later so you're saying that the 4 to6 Series is going to be up to 90 DB even though it's just a card should okay the original thought another waight noise bylaw that we're questioning in reason for the original thought was there could potentially be more activity going on just in terms of getting it assembled starting when it arrives on site but since then um the plan has changed slightly so noem didn't happen till after so Mark I so I have no problem with any of it but I get it's more a matter of curiosity what is the issue with having that vehicle off the road by six 6 a.m. it's because it's an oversized load it's it's a permanent transport so you know stipulate okay and it's an oversiz load such that it's coming off of the Turn Pike or something like that to the book line right um you've navigated this you know looked at the streets and make sure you're not going to take down trees or anything like that yeah right okay um this is a oh it's not a public hearing because we haven't noticed it but people it's noticed in the um agenda so we should probably proceed as the public hearing it's just that the notice city of Butters um didn't have the right date so if there's anyone online we should let them okay so this is a public hearing um that we will continue next week but is there anyone online who like to if there's anyone online please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature just on this noise viral with the request okay there's 16 participants online and no Mr okay then I'll close the hearing and um we will see you next week I [Music] guess okay next uh we have a discussion of a revenues revenues and expenditures study committee chz let us know what you're talking about there so um in your packet you have a talking about is that not package I it's in item it's in public in the agenda I know what it is well I'm just saying it's it's in the agenda char [Music] it um so basically we met over the summer and the fall we had conversations about this which was Brookline to run on a threeyear fiscal cycle Valu Revenue expend um there is this concern about heard about this morning structural deficit which our fixed costs grow faster than our our F go faster than our revenues um and that's partly a product that's and half partly just wear out what our Revenue sources are and where they come from um but what Brookline has done to deal with that issue as a matter of historic prac roughly every three years Brookline has gone to the voter and has to cover that Gap um by means of a permanent increase to tax level this is what an over is permanent increase to the amount of money that the pound and tax uh beyond the what's prevent what allowed by proper so in the P but the other thing that done in the past is to make sure that that's really necessary to determine the scope of such thing is is to convene a committee talk that and the last two committee the 2017 committee which met gr into 2018 and then the 2022 working group which met into 23 the Ambit of that discussion varied in both those groups in the 2022 working group it was really heavily focused on the override itself and the work with about four months in 2017 there was a broader report that was issued at the end of the work 2018 talked about comparison of the line communities unmet need for the community of the time what that money would be used for um that work around six months um but given that we are now entering the third year about next year we'll be entering the third year of the override cycle that was authorized by the ERS in 2022 um your directive to us as staff over the course of the summer and the fall was to start this process early and have it be more comprehensive look more in more detail and why sources of revenues are where our expenditures are what savings we can realize what efficiencies we can realiz in the budget to control for whatever we came and only then if necessary proceed to analyze and cond of what an operating over would look like and what it what it in order to do that you need more time um the other thing that I think will be appropriate here is that if this can finish its work by September that nicely the pro for FY 27 which would be the first year of any in new operating override would be necessary so at the very beginning of the process you could be saying to the community here's the no override scenario here is the override scenario as opposed to you know where the override question still kind of finalized last time which is obiously late in the budget process and there was kind of an assumption in those budget process that you better pass or there's going you know consequences are going to be significant um in order to give the public more confidence about you know the nature of any request to them it'd be better to have that ready to go at the start of that so that we can very clearly lay out those here's here's where the need is here would be the consequence here's what we to do we didn't and here's what we do what we do the work um so but in order to get there and get people to confidence that we really look at every um option for raing Revenue um you can see the broad sort of graph charge that we've produced here um on page two of the uh memo talking about what it is that this um committee would do um I would recommend that it be a committee public committee rather than working group again that tends to inire more confidence obviously working group smaller working groups can be part of that of a larger committee there are limitations to that new limitations to that that under the general guidance for the um open meeting law but that doesn't mean you know small efforts to bring work lar group um but again having that work be done in a public setting conversation being public I think would be important to generate confidence in your final product so that's where what you have before you is a draft c and a draft Comm membership um welome any thoughts you may have edits um if you're ready to vot it through we happy to take it otherwise you can take it back and um edit it and hopefully bring it back to your ex next so um I've uh was involved in the 2017 2018 over committee which was uh I won't quite I was thinking to myself should I say it was disaster but it wasn't a disaster but it was a very um messy conclusion uh and that was why a work group uh working group was put together staff staff and and and volunteers was put together uh for the um for the 2024 2023 24 and so my concern is that we not end up with another message process yeah uh prior to that uh this is 2014 2016 we had an override study committee that was um they really made a uh they really the phrase that one of my English friends used to use they really made a me a lot of it they uh they spent a great deal of time looking uh in great de detail at and perhaps unnecessarily and so there needs to be some kind of balance uh in uh and looking at the charge it looked pretty good but I think it's really important to set some kind of sort of boundaries around you go here but you don't need to go over here you don't need to go over there otherwise you do have uh something that a a task will expand to meet the uh the the boundaries alow well yeah so um a lot that might said but maybe one one difference first I um we've been talking a bit about this I've been advocating for this I think Mike has been advocating for this um you know I I think you've per perfectly captured the issues chz in the way that you do so well um that that that was raised through multiple discussions I think starting in the summer um about creating such a committee um in the charge I think I I really like the charge that you wrote I like the makeup um I'm I'm going to dip a little bit with Mike I do think that this should be a public body and not a work group for the reasons that you said we're going to you know this is going to be big a sell um and we're going to need the support of the public and I think the the public meaning of the body deliberating with the Public's participation is going to be really important to build that confidence now that doesn't mean that we can't have staff support that can be busy doing the work behind the scenes to you know take take direction from the committee if more research needs to be done and and Analysis but um I I do I would really strongly advocate for this being let me no problem with that public party um and you know i' like the benchmarking piece that you've had in here the the comparative piece I think um is really important I think stating that we you know we really need to evaluate our operating expenditures um I think that's an a really important piece uh people want to know that they're getting the most value of what they're already given um you know before they get asked uh asked for more um I like the committee the committee membership I I'd be curious about uh how we pick the four community members is that a vote of the select board what is that what you were thinking the select board would vot but I think it's important to make [Music] sure I don't think process where people are publicly it can't be political would be so I I'm I I really just want to say thanks you did a great job with this and um I feel pretty good I really like the charge as well um one modification though that I would want to make is the size of the group I actually think the membership should be a little bigger traditionally I think that these committees have been larger also given that the charge is more expansive than prior ones I worry about whether seven people is too small a group to undertake such uh a significant workload also I worry about whether community members can truly quote balance the various interests in the community so my recommendation would be to double that number have a group of 11 with eight community members appointed believe in 2017 number [Music] n22 um 11 might be a little un I we're happy again maybe we settle on nine but I think s a little small yeah I just Paul I just want to make sure you understand that my caution is not around whether it's a public public committee or not I haven't got any in fact I I agree needs to be public committee what I'm concerned about is that the that public committees have a tendency to wander somewhat uh and I think it's really important that we Define in this the um the what we want them to do but also what they don't need to do so you know can I so you know I I uh currently chair a rather large committee that has a potential of being unwieldly um and one of the things that helps us greatly is we have a consultant assisting Us in providing the process um and that I don't know if we have funds for such a thing Chaz but um if we were able to reach out to a third party that could help uh facilitate um and and and drive the process maybe do much of the analysis that we're talking about so know staff is going to be pretty burdened if they're getting thrown a lot of things um but you know potentially that's one way to balance uh to balance this issue to bring in some some expertise that can assist in this end that's a good slide we'll take that back into I don't think that has been done before that's not inent to do talk to I it's always tough thing about you got the wealth experi dist bud you don't want to have to also dedicated support process um thank you work and as other St you know seems to tell the discs that they made so they be this kind of a study um at the same time I just want to flag that it's on the one hand I I asked a question at the previous at a PRI meeting as whether this is override study committee I thought the answer was it's not the same thing as an over study committee it you know it's it seems to me to to be much the same thing as an overload study committee and that's not a bad thing it's just um I I do think we have to be up front with people if we're essentially saying this is a committee you know whose primary responsibility will be to determine if we're going to need an override in on the ballot in May 2027 um and that seems to be the bottom line of the work of this committee and uh in that regard um I just want to flag also um we had a couple of committees that were not the same thing as over placees but were very focused um intentionally on the big p picture questions of U how to improve upon the town's um ability to anticipate and deal with um funding needs and uh uh changes in Revenue expectations but also um changes in trends of cost of government um BAC was one and fpac the other so uh I hope that the committee in its work will kind of keep in mind the focus here um and make sure that they don't wander off into essentially duplicating the work of b or the work of f um and also not duplicating um the good work of Prior override study committees that whenever you have an override study committee it kind of starts with a core um of problems that are continuing in in the local government and continuing as a result of top two and a half that don't need to be restated every time you know we reach the third year in a cycle where we can no longer sustain um our budgets without there being an override but instead focus on things that are um maybe different that didn't exist the last time there were override study committees and things that um are within the realm of feasibility giving the change circumstances of the town and the change expectations of the town's residents as to what they want from government and how much they're willing to take with CP take this increase always getting War you 11 and you're at six that then you problem um um but yes we will um we'll take this back with this feedback a little bit we'll bring it back to you I don't know whether we I'm sorry to disr but I'm not sure we have um consensus on the board as to whether it should be a study committee or go back bring some ideas back it [Music] what would be the purpose of it being a working group type that's we had in 22 2022 2023 I will say I think that practice worked well in the sense that had we were very much con about time because of the turnover in my position and the turnover in finance director position we didn't have a lot of and position Melissa 2022 around yes very um um but as a result of that the the foundational work that needed to be done in terms of you know do we need an override what are we looking at here what it it all had to be confession very and it really was staff driven driven primarily by you know the needs that we established in pandemic but also you know what we were hearing from Community you know a lot of the 2022 override out on the town side Shoring up services that the community has indicated through to UPG that want to provide um like you know the forestry like you know um the um increase increase just for roadways you million for Road um all that through the that feedback process and we were able to quickly synthesize that information that was a plus that group had one that group PR assume he needed an override it ran down the list of wants and needs it calculated how much the community was willing to support um and it put the question on the ballot uh or you put the question on the ballot but they they put the time the question in front of um and it was you know I think even with the you you may remember that it was F overized it was an add-on question about conf it failed um but not very any vot but it did and I think that allowed the community to kind say okay we want this the core but we're not in the SP where we want to be adding a nice so let me just mention one thing please um you know unlike the over our stud news this is an ongoing news um and I think that that's a difference in terms of whether it should be um you know subject meeting law and all that versus a working need um and the override say needs in the work and the go away this committee I understand it it's going to be an ongoing ongoing meting that you're you would like kind of more of a brother icept that was what what you were talking about I thought we were talking about more the scope of the work would expand but not necessarily that theand committee would P it was more of a review of at the present sense review when set a set a recommendation broader than just assuming well we need an override how should be override um but if your thought is more I to have a standing committee you can absolutely work on that that's for our there so many issues Beyond just override but that that we do go ahead Mike so I I comment on that but just say I I commented earlier that the 2017 override c community was a map the reason was a mess was that it started off primarily focusing on uh what was needed for the school uh and you look broadly it kind of appears and but the um the uh uh items that were put on to the town were put on to to were put on very hastily at the end with honestly having been a member of that committee I will say that we did not do a good job at all in those uh but okay we came out with we had good staff advice and we came out with with appropriate um appropriate uh addition but it was not it was very poorly um poorly done from a process perspective um so that's my hesitation about a public uh committee but it's shouldn't it it's it's more a matter of um explaining to public committee what didn't work so that it does a proper job uh the this time around as far as an ongoing committee goes you have an advisory committee that that should be their job it seems to me uh to be looking forward they have a long-term signing subcommittee um occasionally it's actually gets together and tries to do some of that work but uh it does seem to me like we'd be duplicated in E if we if we did that and I I think um that a committee that's going to meet the specific objective or kinding prud it from being public yeah your your committee's public my committee is public and I think um we could always at the end of that take what comes out of that some learning and say Well we'd actually like to continue and call you something El and you know if chose to do so I would still I think we could learn from the past and make it a effective public committee without if you I think if you make it an ongoing committee it might it might turn they may want to boil I would also Endor thinking it a public committee especially given that if the ultimate recommendation is that there should be an override on the ballot being a public committee will be helpful because people would be able to follow that process that rationale provide input um in either direction frankly because people are feeling the pinch now I think we need to have Community participation at least on that level being able to watch the [Music] meetings um I I'm still I I have not made my it would be a better process if it were there or publicly up law committed uh I just want to mention that it was my understanding from the beginning that this was to be a um time certain s of really goal not maybe those oh okay okay um and if it's helpful to point out um the the 2013 excuse me I say yeah 2013 2014 um override study committees um you know eventually produced a report of 134 pages I mean these these studies me um depending on who's on them and depending on the circumstances it can be a very very involved process with a lot of analysis um you know essentially uh laying out in very specific terms um the parameters of the Dilemma that we face today when we saw you know six budget and the projection for you know continuing gaps out um so I think you should be very kind of focused as to what we expect from this this committee um and help them to avoid uh dication of effort um 203 14 wasn't all that long ago and um some of the things that the previous meeting surfaced um might not be resurfacing um with soon but there are other things that I think that current Committee in the present context add to that work to been by and and but I get this in the pet and I didn't get it at all so um the the yeah um yes if it's not in the packet by the afternoon I don't have time to De it but um at at the end of the work though maybe would make sense for the committee to get some direction to Revis the Comm what you know what the future uh issues that could be looked at are because although the larg does have a long-term signing sub committee I never hear anything about it right Ian I do but it's not you know it needs to have some energy put behind it it's need be doing something on a sustain basis uh otherwise you would be right that there should be sustain effort done but it seems to me like that and thir have guidance I think that in terms of public versus or open meeting like Comm versus working group uh I I sense the consensus is that to be open yeah um one objection or [Music] one you can always yes you can always continue discussion on that right now we'll take this back about membership about Ching some of the controversial charge talk about things that happen to Chang between now and the last s you know thinking through how to focus the focus the argum focus the objective and if people agree I'd also like to include in the charge that they you know provide some guidance to The Bu the committee respect the issues that they've identified that have more longterm yeah impact yeah AB okay does anyone disagree with that okay back to you 17 good okay next uh I see and is in in the audience here live so you want to refer this policy discussion continuation of discussion started last week yes um so I know that um Paul had sent some uh questions and um I followed up with Chaz who sent that responses and then I received something um last night around ref reporting um I don't know if you want to start with the existing policy as you received it um if there are questions there then get into the this well I I think well I think I'm the one that triggered this you know maybe giving a pause because it was a little tough to read the redline uh version and we had fonts and stuff changes which I appreciate you taking out all that and um which made reviewing the change in the policy really helpful to me um and I did raise I raised three questions um and if you if it's okay and can I run through what they were and kind of where it's your meting okay so it's my meeting I mean I can probably get there quick so the first question I had was um the policy actually talks about uh you know making a reasonable accommodation someone can ask for a reasonable accommodation um and and the definition was taken out and I I worried a little bit about that because if it was taken out um you're leaving it to the discretion of others as to what the reasonable accommodation could be um without any boundaries so I I did I did raise that question um and I guess an or or Chaz the response to my question was that it was removed from the policy but it's in a it's in a separate place um it's separate from this policy is there a is there a reasonable accommodation definition somewhere in our in our policies that that this policy would reference so reasonable accommodation is defined by federal state law okay and so if someone reaches out to us uh requesting reasonable Foundation or we receive information that might trigger an inquiry um to an employee for reasonable accommodation um we do reach out to them and engage them in an interactive process whether that's at the new H stage or continuing employee stage um and from there um you know set up meetings to that get information to their providers on their job description and their tasks and things like that and then we um have that conversation with them and their Department to see what path they're looking for an accommodation for and so we we go through that with them but the definition itself is is source and better okay so it is that so we're referen in federal state law so I guess the only suggestion I would say is that I'm happy to have that taken out since you're saying it goes we may want to make a capitalized term or for know it says where um you know reference by reference right just so what the the reference is so so people know especially public as def federal law there no specific reference um then so my second I didn't have questions about timing um so there was a an elimination of uh the investigatory process shall be completed within 30 days of the dates it started um and I was just I was concerned that we eliminated any um time frame uh from it which I was just concerned that you know if there's no expectation that think could go on forever and I know we we don't want that to happen it's not our intent um and I'm just curious that if if we if we don't want 30 days is it could we could we make it 120 days or is there some upper end so that you know people feel that they at least understand what the town is going to do to get back to them in a certain time frame even if it's exaggerated I just felt like eliminating it completely was seem a little too f for me but I understand your concern what we have found in in having this reviewed by outside council is that eliminating the the time frame that we have in our protocols um increased our communication with both the complainant and the respondents um so that they're getting periodic updates if it is going um Beyond if it's going for an extended period of time and what we are seeing is we will have I'll call it one complaint yeah but there might be anywhere from five to 15 allegations that have to be investigated in that one complaint and investigation so so the policy what you eliminated time frame says it will be done as soon as practicable right is practicable a defined term or is there a standard for that all right I'm not I I think the explanation is fine it's just I if I'm if I'm the the person who's submitting something um I guess I as practicable would be okay okay um and then so I'm okay with that the last one I had was why eliminate a time frame that a final report would issued once the decision has been made um it was 10 business days and we just took that out um again uh what if I'm if I'm someone who is the the person who's submitting the complaints um what expectation you setting with me that I could actually say I'd like the final report and you have not met your obligation to give it to me within a reasonable time frame so um the complaintant the respondents witnesses not received the f we receive a summary okay and um the um that that full report is liated ch um and where it needs to go to outside Council um due to um Personnel matters and employee privacy um they get an anonymized summary to say you know you made the complaints in the follow area and so um that's the Su if we're talking about publishing let me let me me basically what we what we said was um what we eliminated was the final confidential investigatory report shall be issued within 10 business days of the completion of the investigation that was the sentence that I was talking about I assume that was back to the complaintant but may but but maybe not I'm just wondering and again I'm just I'm think I'm putting myself in the shoes of someone who went through this who took the risk of actually filling this thing out went through the entire process and now the thing has come to its conclusion and I want to get my hands on whatever it is that you're going to deliver to me it's defined by this policy and you've taken out a commitment as to when that's going to happen it could take a year it could take three years you know that's extreme I would say that that that's um Even in our most complex cases um we haven't gotten to that point um if we go from the if if you assess the conclusion of the investigation at the end of interviewing Witnesses respondents and Gathering um information at the conclusion of the it is not possible get the complexity of the cases that we're see to complete a report within 10 days have itview by outside counsel sent to Che so so here so here my concern I don't have it I don't have a problem that you change with them 10 days I have a problem that you just eliminated any expectation that you delivered in a in a time frame right you just took it out and that's the question why can't you 30 days that c to exension we run into the same challenge that we did with having the 30 days for the investigation and we did have this reviewed as yeah I I understand here but this this was causing more problems right because it was just creating it was creating this back of paperwork people that things done because there would be inevitably things one another there would just be this sense of well is this portion of the investigation done why can't we releas this or something else live it just becomes then a matter of you're you're creating a lar you're just creating a or Poli these investigation BEC what this does it says it's got to be released back there is a concern that investigation is done and the count is sitting they should file a complain so I just challenge this does not say as soon as practi you took it out yeah you took out within 10 days yeah we we could put the same prac in practicable language put something in exactly exactly ditto ditto yeah I I think I I know it's risky with four lawyers in the room to say this but there are times when you have to listen to your attorney and then do what you know modify things where slightly to do with the real world so with those I am pleased to say I'm good and by the way this doesn't have subject to negotiation with that David yes uh so I didn't see anything in here about recordkeeping and also I think it's beneficial to us as a body to be able to have sort of a manual review by category what are the complaints that have come in how they've been resolved which reports were substantiated which were unsubstantiated that helps us as a board gain an understanding for certain trends that are developing certain professional developments that perhaps should be run I can address that since it came in late last night um where we the the document that we're working on that I'm asking you f through today um with the Amendments is a policy more importants the reporting piece that that you referenced um the first part talked about the uh available for parties you know for a minimum period of time we are subject to the unital L of retention um schedule so that's already covered there um and then the annual report if we're looking to augment what cdic the diversity office already does um and have that more formal reporting similar to our in updates you know as far as fre exit can be enters um we can add that to our reporting schedule um but putting reporting requirements in the policy itself makes it du purpose as opposed to providing it for the en I think it a good you could be that and and in in such a format that the board really focuses on it because we get the police Sport and uh I I look at it nothing really stands out but you we don't really focus on it think about you is there something here that that we could um fix would you like it so your [Music] ACC July or January know I think it makes more sense for me thisal so in the language I proposed would be in June and by the way a lot of this language I took from the Discrimination policy that I mostly wrote for the school department and Council seem to like that but I'm not sure why we can't have this in the policy I worry that if we have it floating around for cdic and all these different places that it's still going to be unclear and the policy doesn't say it's just for employees and actually even within pres right it's for residents It also says for non-employees independent contractors vendors this is for everybody so I think should be in here so there's there's already reporting that's required under the cdic bylaw that both Lloyd and I work on together as far as um complaints that we might handle jointly or one passed off to the other um Lloyd and I can sit down and make sure that that those um metrics are included in that reporting um so that we're not duplicating effort but it's in one place to so so are you suggesting that we not add a reporting annual reporting or you're saying but you already have the information and you just and I work together so you get that information but we policy as well as the CD c but David's advocating to add language are you suggesting we add the language or not add the I'm suggesting not I just worry if it's not a requirement it's not going to actually happen re [Laughter] time I think the really important thing is the data the data exists somewhere or elsewhere um the the important thing is to look at it and responding to your comment about the police and your police report you absolutely right that we get this massive data and there is neither on the part of well it's not quite B because the the chief now I think does a better job of trying to trying to figure out what what this says to us but in the past I can recall having the chief come and and give you all of this stuff without any conclusions from what does this all mean by I think it's proba much two different report yeah um it's by anual what and the summary of complaint that you you see through the uh oh we don't the new um what's it called the new um complaint box that we I mean I I I think after hearing the three different points here the um I know there's a desire from the board I have it have to have regularly expected information on metrics and right things that are happening and they're all scattered and buried throughout various policies maybe what we should do instead of adding it to this specific policy why don't we develop a policy for the board that talks about the types of things we want to have on a regular basis and the types of you know the type of information and when and then it will be in one place and if we if it's not working we can tweak it rather than have it going into the individual policies yeah that's actually some of the things that we do when when the Departments deliver report to you part maybe what we do we stand out not send Department material budg is also the opportunity we have talk about you know what and you know that a we develop that memory out i' like board have discussion about what's speciic you not just what you're but talk things going here departmentation so we can have that Tove that makes sense to are aware General and then specific Department follow um yeah I think that that all makees sense absolutely um I think it's really important to put in bold type the reporting on employee turnover on complaints of this sort and so forth because taken together those kinds of nrixs tell us what what's going on that we might under the surface that we might otherwise not see and that's why sorry um if if we put one reporting requirement in here yeah this does you wouldn't put employee turnover in here that would weird I I think the aggregate is probably it's in the annual request for the department heads or it's separate doesn't matter to me but I think aggregate actually would be yeah I do have several other questions okay go so on the second page of the policy and policy statement second paragraph first line it says the town of Brook line is also committed to ensuring Equitable participation for individuals of all backgrounds all this daily operations consistent with state and federal civil rights laws would you be okay with adding in front of consistent with state and federal civil rights laws at a minimum and the reason why I think that phrase is important is otherwise we're negating all the changes of this policy because protected classes and characteristics as the town is defining it is a little more expansive than what state and federal defines it as and if we're saying consistent with state and federal we're basically saying ignore the rest of our policy so do you want to just in with Town state and federal civil rights well I think you're saying at a minimum no so after the comma in all of its daily operations comma at a minimum consistent with stating we can go beyond the minimum I think that's important because otherwise we could ignore everything else when we may see a decline in federal right then the last paragraph on that same page where we're talking about um let's see that any of the divisions that that this policy applies to the select board represented and unrepresented employees volunteers inss Etc we don't mention here the vendors and independent contractors non employees to get mentioned in later so might want to include them in this section right be consistent another question I have there we mentioned the various departments and how this policy does not apply to the School departments where do libraries stand because libraries have a board of chees but are they CH prot Oran all right on the next page on the section this policy has four General aims number four the language to hold responsible in disciplined to me to hold accountable S A little better responsible of a different connotation I don't know if others agree on that don't have super strong feelings on it just a question about wor Choice then under prohibited discrimination I see that uh criminal record was added as something that we can't quote unquote discriminate against but if somebody commits a crime while they're an employee here are we trying to say that we can't take any actions against them I think we would want to be able to otherwise what's the point of Cory checks and doing those updates if we saying can't treat them differently I think of course we would want to treat them differently but we really want that as a class so let me start with the first question question to hold responsible is not a change in language um if if you want to gr look accountable this is this is more um because it is a policy purpose as oppos getting into legali even responsible there a you know something that pregated me um so I I leave that to um you to um discuss as far as criminal record goes um depending on the um the job that someone's applying for so for for discrimination if it's happiness to be um at you higher um it depends obviously on the typ of employment if you're a police officer and you have a criminal record is one thing versus someone who might have an O an old oi or an oi um that is working in public work and so um the criminal record is to make sure that that's listed there so that folks aren't looking to discriminate on criminal record firei or offer in particular and then we do run with our DPW employees we do run follow-up quaries every three years um but we don't run follow-up quaries on other folks um many of the collective bargaining agreements require that if someone has been elected their chart they need to inform either HR their department so um but if we're saying that we can't discriminate based on criminal record that's not just impacting the hiring things it's also for some of these follow-up shots like you're saying every three years so if something happen in that interum threeyear period I would think this language is saying well you can't use that against them that worries me there's there's looking at criminal record and then there's illegally needing criminal record to make a decision so if there is language either in a particular policy or a job description or a Union contract that defines that if you have an active quy or an open quy that that you can't be considered for employment bcw goes into school so we make sure that we're running a higher level um but it's it's a protected um class and that's get con it's discrimination on the basis of having a rightand in the Box that's the that's fairly you know people with criminal records need not apply um to any it's discrimination on the basis to if you have a criminal record that prevents you from doing a specific job or if you commit a crime in such way that non yes that you're employer we have to do we have to but merely because someone has a ref someone was arrested possession 10 years ago them you can't apply for this job that has nothing to do with not yeah so I um I guess I'm a little confused about a Chad because there if you and I'm not sure the distinction between a Corey and a crial record but if you if you have a position if it's a driving position you find that a year ago they they you know had a DUI and and ended up with a record um you know would you would you is it are you able to consider that as part of the hiring process yeah if you you could that's not what this says and if and if if there was a person that's going to be dealing with with youth or or or children or seniors and they have a a record um of of abuse foring policy not the this is the harassment policy not the foring process that we run for new hir okay and so they're different okay we look at but but but renewal of but renewal of employment there is no renal well well if you're you're saying you're doing followup Che on DPW emplo because it's in their contract that we're able to run them for DPW employees um at if someone wanted to change jobs within the time and they wanted to go from one Department to another and and the quy check that you did maybe something came up I don't and again I don't fully understand the difference between CRI and Cory but you know they they they were able to be hired for that position but then then to move to another position you may trigger this check again uh would you not be able to consider the criminal a criminal record for that only where it's relevant well only where relevant and um there their specific um statutory time frames and classes of offenses yeah so for example if um someone is not required to have a drive and they have um a an oui that is more than three years old that is closed we can consider them for a position that is a promotion that doesn't require them to have a driver we can also consider them for a position that requires them to have a driver's license if it is over a certain amount of time there there's all kinds of time frames and if we want to do sort of a a deep dive into that I'm I'm welcome that um main we don't want to allow crial record to be a preex for something else like yeah we really don't want to hire you because you're a woman or you black or use criminal record well de more people records unless the unless it has some bearing or your ability to do the job record that's that's what I would suggest changing the wording a bit because just calling it criminal record I think it it does leave it to a somewhat subjective determination of what would be discriminating based on the like it or not if the idea is not discriminating on the basis of a criminal record in and of itself and that it depends on fur details I would certainly agree that but I worry about this being misconstrued as hey how come you're firing me now when I picked up this charge it says in the policy you can't discriminate on criminal record it's disqualifying criminal record that you that you appr yes so I'm not I think we're conflating two things I think we're conflating hiring and promotion practices with a harassment discrimination retaliation f um because there are procedure for hiring motion consider I think they're extremely sorry and and criminal record is while I understand your concern about the lack of clarity it is [Music] um applied based on the situation itself so these are the categories and someone could come in and say okay I was discriminated against because someone found out I had a criminal record I was hired because I met the qualifications to be hired but I had a criminal record and somebody you know somebody in my division or whatever else you know called me a jail bird or did whatever else or didn't promote me because they had an understanding that that I had a fromal record um but those assessments are done by HR they're not done by the hiring so this this is the the list of um you know adverse or hospital treatment um and it's situational um don't to clarify this for you a really long definition in there the reason I think it could matter is I see this as highly relevant to discrimination of harassment and certainly the retaliation part because if somebody's going to be terminated after they've already been hired based on a change in their criminal record and they then point to this policy well you're now retali rting Against Me based on criminal record and all it says is criminal record they might have a case and I don't know why we would want to open ourselves up to that I struggle think had to solve for that problem right because I I would say that's we're not discriminating against you because you have we're discriminating against you because you committed a f make an impact on your ability to do your job well but it's not about what we're what what what our intent is it's how they could use it I think it's what David is saying to defend against it right now you got I'm a lawyer lawyer lawyer H and I'm and I'm gonna need a lawyer if I don't leave and pick up my children's that's a different kind of yes yes okay continue to next I'll put this disqualifying one more time and then I'll be glad because I know I would agree with yours I think that I'd be more comfortable that place problem with that I'm still struggling with hairs on this I said I'm I'm struggling with splitting hairs on this as far as you know um that's what the law is right it is but this is a policy and you know where we go to apply it the the folks who have a concern with it um it's a very narrow it's a very narrow application and and it's very prescriptive by pus at the state on how it's construed um we don't have a box on our application we don't ask um about um you know pories AE or crial records ahead of offers of employment um in fact all of that isn't that isn't even done by Iron managers it's only done byr so what was the impetus for adding this thing because it's in the list under state law and that simply as criminal so I I think the consensuses need to things next week a problem with that keep going down list yes I I have a little more controversal on the next on the next page uh under workplace impact section I would recommend adding uh discrimination based on protected classes as described here in again to address my same concern from the uh first page where there's the potential lack of consistency with state federal law what we saying at a minimum so this paragraph is directly below the list of protect classes under the category of discrimination yes all right as long as you think that someone's not going to misconstrue that as referring to state and federal protected [Music] classes and then page seven the paragraph supervisors are prohibited from engaging in a dating romantic Etc I'm wondering if we could supervisors or anyone acting in a supervisory role the supervisor might refer to a specific title but there may be times where someone has others working below them and I would think we would want that applicable to those scenarios as well I can add it but supervisor is defined being saate in federal law as someone who has authority over someone else whether temporary or name whatever yeah are you leaving no no temporarily right back unless you're going to have a vote right now no I I think we have to bring this back but I would like to get a sense of you what it is that um we're going to discuss next time well what more is there to discuss it sounded like we agreed on almost there was a bit of a discussion on the crial record part but everything else seem to be wellow part is pretty big thing [Music] using um so that and uh anything else um Paul thinks we're going to do it next week um since we have show on can we maybe hear from show about the crial record part his thoughts Jo are you there [Music] if that if that's the but what is this consense remain members of the board bring it back next week or Paul we're going to vote now if the uh if you're saying that the state guidance is Define is just okay with criminal records then my suggestion would be to at least somewhere have a explanation of that because the average employee may not know so if it's part of an employee handbook or somewhere where they can have a have for very specific [Music] reasons or part of some kind of training but so that employees are can better understand what that means okay sounds like Jo is on now he did ask clarify the question but um which I think was related to criminal record and whether that should be listed or not Jo so the question is essentially uh should criminal record just that term alone be included at the protected class and my concern is that if somebody who are already employing uh picks up a charge that alters his or her criminal record would we then be essentially prohibited from using that against the employee oh he's sorry this was my fault he's on the phone as well I'm unmuting you now good afternoon sorry I'm joining you by phone can you hear me Jo you're un we can't hear you can you hear [Music] me can you hear me y yep we can hear you can hear me now okay sorry about that I'm joining you by by phone uh I had a a Tradesman here here so I'm away from my uh work from home schedule so if I understood the question it's um if we're um you repeat the question I'm not sure how criminal status is dealing with the the harassment prevention policy this criminal record is now being listed as a protected class with which we can't dis harass or retaliate on that basis but couldn't it be argued that it's retaliation to then terminate someone based on their criminal record if we have that listed as a category that we can't retaliate oh I see what you're saying okay so um you know it's it's not a question that we can ask to bring them on board so under your scenario it seem like there would be a situation where um we found out that they had a criminal record um and they're a current employee and then upon discovery of the record that you know the manager is suggesting terminating the employee is that your scenario right yeah would not recommend you wouldn't recommend what that we discipline or terminate an employee in that situation based merely on the discovery that they now you know um you know have a criminal record unless unless it's some like safety you know sensitive type of situation like they can't be around children you know um you know they're police officer or you know that type of stuff but if it was a typical office worker or Library employee or DPW employee nearly because they have a criminal record that we weren't allowed to inquire about on boarding but then figure out once once they're um on you would need more to then discipline them or terminate them merely because of the existence of a of a criminal record I understand on the merely on the existence of but if it's related to what they do in their job would they would they have argument that this would be a violation of the retaliation policy no so for example you know if they were a teacher you know and then they had some type of um you know offense related to that then it would be like a Bonafide occupational qualification as opposed to you know just retaliating them against based on the statute but that's why I said like safety positions or like Public Safety you know fire police schools uh rack you know maybe some of the library positions where you know you can't have like a convicted sex offender around children that would be a Bonafide occupational qualification that we would say that you know you you you couldn't have this job you wouldn't be allowed to have this job so now that we've discovered it we have to terminate you you're not a you're not a qualified individual under these circumstances but that wouldn't be true necessarily for you know DPW employee uh uh you know an office worker in town hall something like that thank you what do you think well I don't want to further hold up voting a policy it sounded like the other suggestions were Incorporated yeah and if there's enough support for them and if there's a some of time sensitive so I'd be okay with V for them okay TIY did you think you can let um Paul know that we're um okay any other discussion this I'm Mo approval of the what are we calling it Al against stimulation harassment and reation we calling it harassment Poli well that was the short one okay Mo um approval of the division to a policy against discrimination and retaliation on favor toic I just add a friendly Amendment subject to today's modification oh I'm sorry um joh Allman hi David fman hi and Care thank you support and that concludes our meeting so unless there's anything else that you want to talk about or there are there people in the audience who would like to make public comment at the end no okay the meeting is over end it's our journ it's over minutes