##VIDEO ID:uwn4_l8nuEY## can I go first I have a short one pardon me I have a short one okay um tomorrow night at 6:30 in the Denny room in the public health uh building just across the parking lot from town hall uh there's a meeting of the Chestnut Hill um uh Community Advisory Group and we're going to be uh seeing the second version of a proposal from City realy for development of the Chestnut Hill office Park uh I know there was a great deal of interest in the first version uh which included a 20 Story Tower at the West End of the property that um didn't get very uh a very happy reception from a number of people and I know that the developers coming back in with something that they hope will be more palatable uh and uh be very it'd be very helpful for anybody who has an interest in that to tune in on uh on Zoom or to attend the meeting in uh in person thank you anyone else no okay I'll make my announcement I want to talk about uh something that uh happened with the Brookline Police Department uh you know the police department supports the community in many ways and um in many ways they're not thought of as police work uh by some people which are but which are critical components of crime prevention which can only work worked with the with the support of the community that is one of the reasons our Focus uh in the police department is on community policing which is very very important but the Brookline Police Department also does regular policing duties chasing down bad guys recently three of our detectives were given law enforcement Public Service Awards for outstanding work on a regional task force by acting us attorney Joshua Levy of the District of Massachusetts one task force was responsible for dismantling a network of criminal gang activity that did not touch Brookline directly but was a growing threat to the entire metro region this was Operation street sweeper and Brookline detective Yuka was awarded the outstanding collaboration award the other task force was responsible for dismantling a major methamphetamine distribution Network that operated out of a body shop right here in Brookline among the seizures by the task force were nine Firearms including a ghost gun and a Baretta and with an obliterated Ser serial number uh so this was serious let me say again that this was happening in Brookline and it was called operation midest touch and Brooklyn detective Sergeant Matthew McDonald and detective Dwayne DNE Dan excuse me Dwayne Danforth her each awarded the investigative Achievement Award the details of these cases will be posted on the police department's social media page shortly and they're very interesting to read uh and it really shows you that we are um not an isolated Little Island uh here in Brooklyn but I have to think about what's going on around us uh and we are very L uh lucky and fortunate to have a police department that really contributes to uh making us safe within that uh within within that context so congratulations and thank you to Brooklyn detectives Keta McDonald and Dan for chz couple of small uh up you know minor updates um one I want to thank the recreation department for their excellent work at harvestfest this weekend um out at the golf course um wonderful event well attended um always great to see thank you to the recreation team uh for setting up the 5K which I ran uh and I whoa I came in 41st uh I think no 47th um I was yeah I'm very proud of that uh for you um and they just a wonderful afternoon at the golf course really a wonderful public resource so kudos to um all the rec team the team at the golf course but really the whole team at Elliott and elsewhere that pitched in to make that such a success um looking forward to more in the future um on November 7th uh which is uh during the farmers market uh there will be the go green after Halloween from DPW at the West Center Street parking lot you can bring your pumpkins and Jackal lantern pumpkins Jackal lanterns and you can toss them into a compost Carnival truck um be very exciting also any uh costumes that you may want to recycle uh this is part of our effort to get towards zero waste here um we are very excited to have it it's going to be a lot of fun be part of the Farmers Market on November 7th um we had promised to the public an update about the Cannabis licensing cannabis retail licensing um there have been a number of developments since we last spoke and promis that update um in late we said we would update you in late October um the current update is the lensey um that indicated they were stopping their operations in town was now said to the town that they do not wish to surrender the license um there are a number of legal disputes that this raises we will be holding a public hearing to address those on November 12th the select board will hear from the ly uh and the issues there and the select board will have to make a determination on what to do under those circumstances given the potential violation of the uh license requirements so um that hearing will be held on the 12th of November um here at the select board meeting um one last thing um this is a very busy season U both locally and nationally politically um we have elections coming up the clerk's office has been doing phenomenal work and with the volunteers getting all of our ballots together making sure everyone has the opportunity to vote you have not voted yet go get one of those turkey stickers they're incredible um or another sticker If you don't like like the turkey there are there are there are more boring stickers available if you don't want a turkey stick that's fine um but um I do just want to say that the temperature does tend to rise in public com in public discussions and public comment um leading up to elections and town meeting and so forth so one I just want to thank all the boards and committees the volunteers who have been working on local government issues that are often complex and naughty as I think we will see here today with a lot of the discussions that are going on uh at the select board meeting very complex issues that where a lot of people have a lot of opinions um and um to thank the staff that have been doing all this work and obviously your elected officials the select board members um school committee members advisory committee members who have really been doing a lot of work to um under you know Community pressure and you know Community dispute to try and move these things forward I would just say as we approach the national election next week and then town meeting in the weeks to come um we do really want to have a plea for Civility and even keeled conversations we cannot stop people from being rude We Can't Stop people from being from voicing their opinion in a strident way um but we do just want to encourage people to take the temperature down um In This Very fractious environment it is really important for us to have um level-headed conversations and I am always I always say I am guilty I occasionally an intemperate remark um but I think when I make them I want to apologize so I hope all of us who are working on this matter you know just take the time um staff is working really hard um and we just want to be sure that you all as you go through these processes um still are you know at the end of the day good neighbors to each other even if you may disagree on some of the issues so just a flag for that even this very fractious political environment I also want to say that the police are working tirelessly on Election protection and protection at town meeting um if you see something say something something doesn't seem right if you are concerned about something you see if there is behavior that you see that concerning on social media um in in conversations please let the police know this is not an invitation for the police to surveil people that's not what we do we just need to know if there are events that are going to be happening so that we can staff them appropriately and make sure that there aren't confrontations or things descend into um uh or uh you know poor Behavior or you know fractious Behavior so um that's it on that front sorry for the many different uh items there but um again um let's all try and keep our cool uh and uh in this very um high stakes uh time and keep working together to make this uh an effective and uh a place of good government good all important uh things to say and uh if I can add uh just remember if you talk really really loud we can't hear you Paul yeah thank you Bernard I want to thank you for highlighting the terrific work that our police department does um I was not aware of those uh investigations and outcomes that have been going on so thank you for for highlighting those um we do have a a terrific dedicated uh police department and I thank you for hiling it Chaz your uh pumpkin tossing or whatever it was uh uh reminded me that um as a father of two young children uh they will be out trick-or-treating m and I um during daylight hours during the best of days it is difficult sometimes to walk about our neighborhoods and cross the busy streets so um just know that on Thursday uh as the as we start heading into dusk um there'll be uh ghouls and goblins and fairies uh walking around our streets um Crossing uh places that you would expect them to cross and Crossing places where you wouldn't expect them to cross um children tend to pop out from behind cars and behind bushes um and I guess I would just ask that the community um pay attention and slow down um and keep their eyes peeled because um it uh it does not take much uh to have a really bad outcome um so let's keep our eyes on the kids and let's make sure everybody's safe on hell waight this Thursday thank you joh just a a quick addition to our town administrator's comments about the um about the election um that is to say that when I arrived here um this evening there were a few stragglers who had been among those voting early and there are three more days left where you can vote early uh tomorrow Thursday and Friday 8 to 5 uh here at Town Hall not at um kulage Corner library and not at putterham library there were early voting periods at both of those locations but um those have ended but at Town Hall you can still do early voting 8:00 to 5:00 p.m. uh Wednesday Thursday or Friday thank you uh can I add one thing about the pumpkin toss uh you know we're we're taking these pumpkins and um composting them so in composting you don't want to have metal and paint and other things so before you take them to toss try to get all that stuff out of the inside um if you can otherwise it's going to make the composting less than ideal so okay unless there any other comments um public comment Y thank you for joining us for public comment this is an opportunity for us to hear your perspective on the issues in Brookline that matter to you each person speaking tonight is limited to 3 minutes you don't need to use the entire time but you may if you like once 15 minutes has been met There's an opportunity at the conclusion of the select board's business for additional comments members of the public sometimes raise questions during public comment we may be able to Prov provide a quick answer to a question but are more likely to work with staff to get a more thorough answer and respond over email we'll let you know when you have 30 seconds remaining and when your time is up please conclude your remarks at that time if you have more to say you are more than welcome to send an email to board members expressing your thoughts in Greater detail before I call the first person who signed up in advance I want to point out that we have several public hearings on more articles tonight and if you're here to comment on one of those we ask that you wait till the public hearing um if you signed up with us in advance with Kate mcgilvery or I um you're all set if you didn't I'd ask that you sign the sheet up here with your name in the warrant article that you wish to speak on otherwise we'll take public comment for other matters so the first person signed up to speak is Emily Jacobson who's in the room good evening uh members of of the select board and staff my name is Emily Jacobson I'm closer I'm not really used to microphones my name is Emily Jacobson I'm the vice president of biking Brookline we're a group of volunteers um neighbors really who work in cooperation with other us of our users of our streets to promote cycling as a safe environmentally friendly and fun activity I'm here to speak to you about the Washington Street redesign once complete this project along with Beacon Street vital path and Emerald necklace will form a loop through town connecting many low stress streets in North Brooklyn into a safe highquality network of paths easily reached by over 80% of the population of Brookline and making all places that they pass through uh much more accessible and enjoyable to bike most people are now too afraid to bike on Washington Street just think what this would do for the quality of life in town Washington Street itself is a major School Corridor connecting Pierce Driscoll the high school and essential Town services like the library and Town Hall hundreds of kids would be able to safely and independently Bike to School within just a few years if we move this project forward since 2022 the Washington Street design Review Committee has been meeting and reviewing designs doing Outreach s sidewalks presentations to stakeholder groups the design has involved has evolved considerably and I think if you look back through the designs as I have you will recognize the hard work of the project team to find the right balance for all people in Brookline during that time I'm sure you've also heard the following concerns about the project loss of parking in some residential areas loss of parking in Brookline Village and in Washington Square and concerns about the viability of outdoor dining when parking is removed first I think anyone who drives down Washington Street will recognize that not all stretches are equally coveted some portions of Washington Street are fairly lightly parked others more densely the project team has recognized this hard this has recognized this and worked hard to adjust the designs to reinstate more parking in the most highly parked areas regarding parking in Washington Square and brookln Village The Current Designs now show parking reinstated along one side of the street in these areas in the tightest portion of Brookline Village this results in nine spaces instead of 16 now representatives of the business Community have recently expressed in public forums that they're seeking onet toone replacement of these spots and to this end we've been working to identify and make accessible significant off- street parking resources for example opening the off street parking at the Driscoll and Pierce garages during evening and weekend hours which would in fact dramatically increase the parking Supply in these areas during the busiest restaurant hours as to outdoor dining you have 30 seconds okay so I think this plan is a reflection of the really exemplary and may I say a very Brookline proc process that doesn't just listen to people but works with them to take into account their concerns I hope when the time comes you'll join me and the more than 1,250 signers 20 20 126 of who whom are town meeting members they reflect the wide range of people that would benefit from this project from the 70 high school students who have signed that concludes your time than more than 100 people over 70 thank you very much the next speaker is Max hullman Max are you in the room good evening my name is Max hullman I'm a Brookline resident I'm also here to speak in favor of protected bike Lanes on Washington Street I'm also here because I'm a middle and high school music and Spanish teacher over at Bri May school I'm a Pianist for the Boston Children's course I'm the conductor of the Boston Sanger Fest men's course which is a group of mostly older gentlemen and I feel compelled to speak on behalf of the younger and older communities whose wellbeing I represent every day my profession has me commuting around the Greater Boston area daily I used to get around by my car until I was T-boned while driving three years ago my car was total I broke my hand among other injuries since then I've been biking full-time including here today I love it however I've still not shaken the impact of that encounter three years later every week I ride my bike up and down Washington Street to get to and from Boston Children's course rehearsals in Roxbury while I love this commute I would feel much safer on Washington Street with protected bike Lanes even as an experienced Urban cyclist Washington Street is a narrow road and cyclists are only inches between the traffic and the parked cars further I see numerous children and older members of our community riding down the same path I frequently think about how much safer these people and all people would be would feel with a protected bike lane protected bike Lanes would provide peace of mind for Riders and for their loved ones so that even if human error were to occur lives could be saved there's no substitute for concrete barrier or raised path when it comes to biking down and busy road I believe that the residents of Brookline and all who bike down Washington Street deserve this safety when they cycle thank you thank you the next speaker is John Bowman John Bowman's online John I'm promoting you now you can start your video if you're comfortable and begin your 3 minutes thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak tonight my name is John Bowman nearly 1300 people have signed a petition advocating for protected bike Lanes on both sides of Washington Street between Beacon and Route 9 including 69 Brookline High School students in addition many parents parents of current and future Brooklyn high school students cited safety for their children riding to and from school as an important reason for protected Lanes today I want to give voice to these students and their parents here is a sampling of reasons they said protect protected lanes are important one I bike on Washington Street every day as do about 10 other Brookline High School students from my sport alone it's often scary and dangerous two my children bicycle down Washington Street to reach the high school and their friends in the area they deserve safe passage and the only way to guarantee it is protected bicycle Lanes three I'm scared to bike on Washington Street with the current situation protected bike Lanes could help me get to school on a bike four I commute to school by bike on Washington Street both directions every day five I have two BHS students one of them wants to ride a bike to school but we don't let him because it's too dangerous at the moment if there will be a bike lane he'll be able to ride his bike to school six I bike to school on that street seven I bike to school every day and there are so many cars not everyone is watching for bikes eight I want to bike B to school and not get run over nine many accidents have occurred since there are no bike Lanes also my biking route to the high school includes Washington Street but I fear the busy and dangerous Street for bikers 10 because I skateboard and it's extremely hard to get to school 11 Washington Street is a street ey bike on often when traveling to and from school and other parts of Brookline I would feel a lot more comfortable biking on that busy street if I had my own protected Lane and 12 because I ride a bike to school every day and my parents don't let me go on the bike lanes because they say they aren't safe even though the sidewalks are crowded thanks again for allowing me to speak please listen to these voices and take them seriously thank you the next speaker is Mark giglietti Mark I'm promoting you now you should be able to start your video and begin your three minutes starting video you got it yes good all right all right thank you for the opportunity uh to speak I am in North Brooklyn um I've been living and cycling and walking and driving at Brooklyn since 2008 and I often say that I do all those things right um none of us are doing any one mode of transportation I also understand that sometimes there's conflicts between the different needs I will say that I choose to walk or cycle when I can right when it's safe um I will ride and I've been you know I've really been commuting to work in downtown Boston since 2008 and I will say probably at this point I would be doing it less if it wasn't for bike Lanes okay and and I will often ride from uh coolage corner to Washington Square on the bike lanane on Beacon Street and I do that more often now that there is that really nice bike lane um to go back and forth uh so I would say that my and from my own personal experience I would ride more with better bike lanes and I do ride more where there are better bike Lan so I think my even my even my patterns would change um with a Washington Street uh Corridor uh bike lane um we when I when when my kids were younger I'm going to High School uh we would let them ride once in a while but we weren't really quite comfortable um with them riding between coolage corner and the high school simply because there was a lack of bike lanes and people in the morning of course are always in a rush so we had a lot of concerns so I think uh generally speaking for students uh it's a no-brainer to be able to provide the kind of infrastructure uh that would promote um you know that would promote uh cycling um and even safe walking for you know as well so um so I just want to reiterate my support of the Washington Street project I think it's a great project of course it's fully funded which is beautiful and um it's really what I would think is a model uh for complete streets and that's about all I have to say thank you thank you the next speaker is David Gladstone David Is With Us online David I'm promoting you now you should be able to start your video if they comfortable and begin your 3 minutes good morning I should say good evening uh David Gladstone Brookline Chamber of Commerce Small Business Development Committee and a longtime resident of Brookline first and foremost I want to say that the business Community is supportive of a protective bike lane we are not against protected bike Lanes Our concern is that the business Community is going to be impacted with regards to numerous spaces being removed the following items need to be addressed so that we can allay these concerns of the business Community number one a parking study needs to be initiated to understand the current supply and demand before any space are taken away number two based upon that study spaces that are taken away need to be replaced within the business district uh number three we need a plan to establish Waypoint signing uh to additional parking spaces that would be existing once these spaces are removed and number four during construction phase there needs to be a Lea on with ability to communicate to town Administration issues that arise with ongoing construction that is independent of the DPW addressing the above will lead to allaying those concerns of the business district but I do want to stress that we are not against the bike lane we are for the bike lane but we don't want it to impact negatively the livelihood of small business people in Brookline which the last time I checked is also a fabric of the community as well thank you very much thank you the last speaker for the beginning portion of public comment will be Dylan peock Dylan is in the room I thought Dyan was in the room oh sorry Dylan Is With Us online Dylan I'm promoting you now you should be able to start your video and begin your three minutes hi there can you see me yes and we can hear you too wonderful um thank you so much I'm Dylan peacock with historic New England um we are a nonprofit preservation organization founded in 1910 and we operate operate across the six New England states um in addition to our 38 museum sites uh that are open at the public we also operate a nationally recognized preservation easement program to protect privately owned historic houses the easement program protects 125 uh properties across five New England States including one already in Brookline at 2 white place which was approved by the select board and tonight I'm here to ask the select board to approve uh preservation restrictions on the Benjamin Goddard house at 43 Sumer Road earlier this month we met with the brook line preservation commission which unanimously voted to recommend that the select board approve this agreement uh The Goddard house is a really wonderful uh example of federal style architecture originally uh constructed around 1810 and it has been very sensitively preserved um by its current owner um current longtime owner Susan Porter is seeking to protect this exceptional property by donating uh this preservation restriction which will be held and administered by historic New England under the restrictions the significant architectural features of the Goddard house will be protected against alteration neglect and demolition whether or not they're visible from the public right of way this will include protection of principal interior spaces while allowing flexibility at kitchens bathrooms and other spaces bases uh Mass general laws chapter 184 section 32 allows for these restrictions and requires approval at the state and local level for the Restriction to be perpetually binding the state through Mass historical commission has already reviewed the document and provided preliminary approval pending your approval and the town of uh Brookline is not a party to the restrictions and assumes no responsibility nor accepts any liability for enforcement um this is a really exceptional property with important interiors that deserve protection and suzan's donation of preservation restriction is a really wonderful benefit to Future Generations ensuring that the Goddard house continues to be cared for and carefully stewarded into the future with um oversight and professional preservation advice and expertise afforded to all future owners so thank you for having me here and I'm happy to stick around until the agenda item in case you have uh any additional questions thank you so much thank you Dylan that concludes our time for public comment at the beginning of the meeting thank you okay next uh we have miscellaneous items first um meeting minutes for October 8 and October 15 2024 any edits to those minutes I added an edit myself as a minor thing um seeing none I'm moove approval of the minutes minutes for October 8 and 15 all in favor please indicate by saying I John vanak hi Michael Sandman I Paul Warren hi David Perman I jar votes I next we have items 3B to 3 y I'd like to take these items in Omnibus fashion but first I want to note that at the suggestion of Paul Warren I am proposing that the second part of item 3n which has to do with the bridal path contract be amended uh to read as follows question of authorizing the Town Administrator to sign the associated standard contract form and all future contracts and agreements related to this contract and project add here subject to select board approval any questions about that no any other um items you want to pull out okay then um since there are no objections to this amendment or U any other items that people want to pull out I move approval of items 3B to 3i all in favor please indicate by saying I John v skak i Michael Sandman I Paul Warren I David prman I and chair votes I okay yes John I I believe I heard you say through three I and I I me you might have meant why why yeah just for the record why is in youth yes yes okay yeah I heard why oh well there you go the two better than the two guys with the most acute hearing on the board you know can't agree oh well okay um next calendar items uh first we have an interview or two interviews for the Brookline commission for women uh it's Elizabeth Kernan and Sh day amarelli I think I pronounced that correctly okay um you want to come up first uh so introduce yourself and tell us why you're interested in being on the Brookline commission for women um yeah let's start there can you move the microphone very good I'm Dr shid murali I'm the double board certified in Internal Medicine and also nephology I have U Been practicing at um in the United States for 20 years I did my residency and fellowship at um Memorial um you speak could you speak into the microphone I'm sorry okay sorry about that and you can move the mic closer to you okay is that much better much better okay I did my residency and fellowship at ums Memorial in wer um I finished my uh Fellowship in nephology uh back in um 2010 I have been um uh living in Brookline uh ches Hill uh for past 7 years um I live with my daughter and my mom in uh Chad Hill right now uh I own a house there and I'm practicing uh medicine and Nephrology in Winchester Hospital I related Tobi and also I'm a medical director a few nursing homes around the area Newton Wy Alzheimer unit West Roxberry Norwood uh and uh also helenic Center in Canton so I am actually interested in um women's committee I uh always advocating the women's right um I would like to participate and contribute uh in this field um and um I'm originated from Iran I raised in tan and I moved here when I was um like almost 23 years ago when I was 25 so I've been here for 23 years in Boston area so is there any anything that I can contribute contributed to the field of women's rights advocating for women's right um economic and social justice encouraging women's participation in the union building leadership uh by education and supporting women to help uh women to have have boards to become more leader support them raising uh raising awareness of a barrier to any uh in uh like to equality so we want like a we means to be equal um to Men of course coordinating events like award uh banket or anything that can be helpful um so that's that's my goal so could you um sort of elaborate on how your experience as a u medical doctor particularly nephologist um you know has some particular um um value to the women's commission I mean there are issues that uh you see from your perspective that we're missing or that we need to focus more on so I have noticed that like in the health um care sometimes the nurses or even doctors are being paid uh less than male doctor it has been going on so that's one issue that's um you know they they both work and I they they should be all appreciated the same way and even bonuses are different for male sometimes male doctors or even the um the nurses are sometimes you know are likeing um complaining about that the other thing is um um we should also reject any um transphobia or homophobia anything like that so this is should be you know the world should be free of those dislikes um so I think um and also the other thing ethnicity and race everything should be equal uh we should respect all the diversities in the society any other question John um so I I heard you saying I think I saw on your application you practice at Winchester Hospital yes I don't know if I have to get a ruling from Town Council on this but I was born at Winchester Hospital so oh really I I hope that's not a conflict not back there anytime that's nice it's a nice hospital it's a very good um it's it's small but busy but very good uh Physicians and I have no memories of they still have OBG Department yes but I have never met any who practiced at Winchester Hospital I've never had a chance to say that I was born at Winchester Hospital at a very early age I ass one of the hospitals that in Winchester Hospital one of the hospitals actually support the independent practicing positions so that's a good and just as a comment not a question um I'm delighted that you have an interest in the women's commission and I uh in particular because um you I I I feel confident that if you are are pointed um you're going to bring an international perspective and um that's such an important perspective in these times so thank you for yeah of course in a two couple of years two years ago it was a demonstration in ton uh against uh you know women's they were not um re they they wanted to be free like you know even the young or any women so there was a big demonstration in tan and hopefully they hopefully they can gain more rights there so I agree so it should be internationally this is should be supported everywhere thank you again good and one of the ways in which it's relevant to Brookline is that we have such a big International Community yeah absolutely and U you that that that perspective it would be very helpful yes that's any other question yeah uh Paul I just just a quick comment um I'm always delighted to see uh Physicians um apply for boards and commissions or serve in town meeting yeah my wife is actually a a transplant surgeon who kidney you may know her um she practices at bi oh uh and so I you know this idea of bringing your experience as a physician around women's issues and health issues I think is really an important one and you're right on about the disparity of pay yes uh it's a very serious issue in healthare the disparity of pay between women and men so yes absolutely so thank you for your application of course yeah thank you so much of course the women's commission has little authority over that but they can speak out speak and bring it to the attention of the public absolutely I agree okay so uh thank you of course my pleasure thank you so much for your time thank you so much I'm all set yeah okay um the next uh person is um is kernin yes Liz Is With Us online Liz you've been promoted you should be able to start your video and then the chair will begin your interview and as a reminder um Liz did interview for the pcac um what was that a couple months ago and so this was her check second choice for service good so miss hello hi yep very well uh please introduce yourself and tell us uh why you're interested and what you can bring to the women's commission absolutely I'd be happy to I just wanted to start off by saying good evening uh members of the select board um again my name is Liz kernin and I'm here to express my interest in joining the Brooklyn commission for women I moved to Precinct 10 um three years ago and it has been a privilege to call Brookline my home this community has welcomed me with open arms and I'm deeply motivated to give back by contributing to the vital work of the commission um with the recent overturn of Ro v Wade and the uncertain future with this upcoming election advocating for women's rights feels more urgent than ever as someone who also identifies as a racial minority I am particularly passionate about supporting the commission's commitment to intersectional advocacy and I'm eager to bring this perspective to our efforts in promoting Justice and equity for all women and girls in Brooklyn um professionally I work as a data scientist at Harvard with a background in government and social policy issues where my role involves analyzing data identifying Trends and creating presentations that drive impact I'm excited about the opportunity to leverage these skills for the commission whether through producing datadriven reports or creating visualizations that highlight gender disparities and the progress of our advocacy I believe a data focused approach can advance the commission's mission more effectively and beyond my work I've also been a mentor with big sister Boston where I see the importance of empowering young women and girls as they navigate their Futures this role has inspired me to further support initiatives that uplift women in our community and additionally as a Brooklyn Election Department clerk for Precinct 7 I've had the opportunity to engage with many senior women in Brooklyn learning from their insights and experiences and further appreciating the unique needs within our town the and values of the Brooklyn commission for women which are gender justice intersectionality collaboration transparency and determination are ones I strongly resonate with I'm dedicated to upholding these principles in all aspects of the commission's work bringing my skills experience and commitment to Advanced gender equity in our community and thank you so much for considering my application and I look forward to the opportunity to work alongside the Brookline commission for women to create a safe fairer and more inclusive Brookline for all women and girls thank you and thank you for your work as a clerk in um in our elections absolutely that is a very very important uh role as we're learning unfortunately in these days uh also very stressful um but uh you we're providing every uh support we can to this very very important uh segment of our population of of our Town's uh absolutely my pleasure so um in your application you said that one of the issues you'd like to see addressed by the women's commission is uh police community relations could you elaborate on on what you mean by that specifically um sure I think I touched on it in my um previous application for the police commission um but I think in terms of safety um just um bringing about more resources and just U marketing those resources as well um I think it would be helpful just I mean just even working with police officers as a pole worker um it's been so fantastic just to build relationships with them I think it would be um of the utmost value for um the average resident to do that as well Paul I actually a question for you cheer green uh do we have how many openings do we have on because this is really amazing we have amazing tiany yes I believe it's three oh we have three openings oh perfect these are two fantastic applicants I guess is what I I'm any other questions um let's see any questions uh i' I'd like a lot of your answers uh in your application talk talk to me more about um it's someone who's not a data anything um tell me you how you would use your background particularly as it relates to sociology and policy um in in on the women's commission I mean sure think of a number of ways in which but give me your thoughts yeah um I was actually in preparing for this I was looking through the website um and I know that there is a report up now on gender pay equity and that's the previous applicant was talking about about and um around uh Brooklyn women Brookline and I think that the Le the latest report came out in 2022 so I would love to use my skills to update that and um create it for the latest batch of data and also maybe make it a lot more prettier and put you know lovely graphs and stuff on it as well okay any other questions thank you thank you thank you very much thank you great time okay uh next boards and commissions annual reports presentation of the solid waste advisory committee's annual annual report to the select board I see John Dempsey walking to the podium and thank you for your report it was very very informative it's nice to hear it really was I think here yep yeah t agenda tonight I'm John Dempsey uh chair of the solid waste advisory committee and our job is to advise you on Solid Waste measures uh things that you can do that we can do as a town to reduce our Solid Waste I'm pleased that uh several members of the committee are here with me tonight I want to introduce them you don't get a chance to see them that often but we have Kathleen oconnell Mary litur Susan rling Dean Cody and Clint Richmond Jerry Lambert has family business tonight and couldn't be here so um first of all I want we want to thank you for following Our advice most of the time and it makes us feel good and I think it helps uh uh in the big picture reducing our Solid Waste we're here to celebrate tonight I forgot the champagne but we for the first time in history are below 8,000 tons of solid waste to dispose of that was fiscal the last fiscal year uh fiscal year 2024 our goal was to get below 8,000 tons and we're below 8,000 tons just barely but we're below and uh I think our um next goal is 7,000 want to get down to 7,000 tons now we got down there there's several factors that allowed us to get down there first of all is the leadership and the vision and the expertise of the DPW they really uh do a great job under the leadership of Erin sh and Kevin Johnson Erin's here uh Kevin Johnson I think is joining us on video and Alexander veio so and also the staff I want to do a shout out to the staff because we work closely with the staff uh John King our environmental health supervisor right uh in the back there comes from a family of dedicated Brookline public servants and he knows Brookline left and right I think he started as a lumper on the back of one of the garbage trucks he's an environmental health supervisor great to work with we plucked uh Katie weather seed from the Conservation Commission and she's our zero waste program manager Katie is there and um very competent and uh great to work with and elanar Jamila witz who is our assistant recycling coordinator is not here today but we're thrilled to have her a recent graduate from Trinity College doing a great job there are other reasons we think that we were able to reduce our Solid Waste first is our Hy uh hybrid pay you throw we've had it for years but it we think that residents are really think when they have that uh cart they pay for a certain size cart they think about the their disposal how much they have to dispose and it's directly related to how much they pay um I'm supposed to be doing this there well there's my graph showing that the red line there is the 8,000 tons for disposal now getting into it so the hybrid page you throws is certainly a factor in getting below the 8,000 tons Mark bulky waste you initiated the bulky waste fee uh for like two years ago now we've reduced our bulky waste calls by a half so we used to get 8,000 calls for pickup of refrigerators and air conditioners and things like that for some re I don't know the reason but for some reason we're down to 4,00 000 uh requests for pickup now I don't know where it's going it's not ending up on the street we think perhaps producer responsibility the people are taking it back the um the companies are taking refrigerators back and residents are using that service instead of using the town um but that's significant another reason we're down is because of curbside collection of Organics we have 2,000 households more than 2,000 households who subscribe to an independent service with black Earth compost we partner with as a town and uh as long along with bootstrap compost so we think about 500 tons of food waste is being disposed of properly and we're not sending it to an incinerator to have it burned um School composting comes in there as well the um which started with Brookline High School the basically the largest restaurant in town by state mandate they had to compost they have a terrific program going on over there with our support I would say the support of volunteers and teachers and staff and now three other schools are of the elementary schools are composting on a regular basis all School staff uh in the kitchens are are composting reduction of over 100 tons a year of of food waste and we had 25 hazardous waste drop off events making it convenient for residents to drop off hazardous waste that might have ended up in the waist stream and um illegally and uh so that's a convenience for residents and textiles textiles are now banned by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts from the the waist stream clean textiles and Brookline has responded with uh textile textile drop offs as you can see in the picture of town hall uh collecting tons probably two tons of textiles and just one drop off and also um partnering with helpy so there is a pickup collection of textiles at at curbside by Arrangement or drop off up on incinerated Drive and the mattress collection that we're working with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts we get these mandates that come down that you can no longer dispose of mattresses into the um incinerators they have to be recycled and that has caused us to it's reduced our U uh tonnage that way cardboard drop off at the Center Street West lot reduces our disposal amount and the Outreach I think we've improved our Outreach if you don't have the we recycle Brookline app on your phone it's free it's great it tells you what you how to dispose of things whether to recycle dispose of them into the trash and it reminds you of our of your collection day it reminds you of a change in the schedule terrific and if you don't have it on your app and want to see you go to your phones right now and put it on your app it's great okay um we also have many tabling events at Town of town um events uh We've increased that we have Recycling and composting at many events um we have an e newsletter that goes out about uh solid waste and we have a wonderful staff that's updating our website continuously so it's up to date because we know that's where residents go to find out um what um what's going on with solid went backwards so what's next our next goal is 7,000 tons to get below 7,000 tons we want to expand Organics diversion and we have four drop off sites now around Brookline we want to encourage reuse there are some interesting things about uh takeout containers reusable take out containers and we want to support extended producer responsibility where the producers the manufacturers take responsibility for hard to dispose of to recycle U products and take them back and you as a board have been encouraged have been encouraging our legislative delegation to support um reducer responsibility bills and finally we will be um I think Alexander Becky will be talking about sustainability and natural resources and of course disposal and recycling of solid waste will be a part of her action plan so that's it thank you very much um we're honored to uh serve on the committee and we appreciate your support thank you John any questions or comments about this great report Paul yep I just want to first I want to say thank you for your presentation acknowledging everybody um um you know I I would hope that every chair of a border commission would come and bring their Entourage with them say and say thank you because I I I think it's um it's important to know all the folks that are involved um and I'm grateful for you getting to 8 Below 8,000 and I look forward to getting below 7,000 I the the ReUse is very interesting to me uh we are a household that reuses so we don't have any all the containers that the kids go with snacks and everything is either a glass container with a plastic lid or a zip something that zippers um you know we none of those things that go to school they all come back to us and they get washed and and reused how do we encourage more of that um in home reuse and also I don't know how you do it with restaurants but I think about our own waste um you know often it's takeout containers yeah um and sometimes I've seen I can be seen jumping up and down in my small containers so I can make more room uh because of the amount of takeout that we do how do we influence what restaurant are packaging their stuff so the uh there are a couple of companies now that are kind of working on ways to do that to provide the restaurant with the takeout containers in a way of getting those containers washed and back and then re-washed at the uh at the restaurant so we had a presentation can't remember the name of the company right now but we had a presentation they're trying to make inroads with the restaurants so we're our thing was to encourage them uh to do that but um I think that's important that's you know our our milk containers are all glass they come to us we have a milk person that delivers milk and they pick up the containers and they're all reused so anything that we can do to move that forward I think would be really helpful it's great it's creating that culture I appreciate what you're doing David a similar question but maybe a little more broad uh the third strategy have listed on next steps support extended producer responsibility can you speak a little more uh globally about how it is that you're going to try to achieve that next step yeah the um that is going to have to be through legislation an example a good I think a good example right now is the paint paint manufacturers um taking responsibility for taking the paint back so you go to the hardware store and buy the paint you would pay a a small amount 50 cents or something like that that goes into a fund that is then administered by the paint manufactur and they take the paint back so it's something that they it doesn't really um it's something that they can they can administer so um product producer responsibility is really coming there's one of our Brookline residents for years in fact he served on the solid waste advisory committee years before even I was on it and he is in charge his his organization is working worldwide to get producers to take more responsibility for taking back what they've produced and recycling it responsibly so the but the paint manufacturers there's a bill there was a bill before the legislature that the select board supported or asked our legislative contingent to support it came close to passing we think it'll maybe pass in the next session where the paint um paint will be taken back and disposed of properly the at a minimal cost to the consumer and at no cost to the the town basically um Mike um that was a very um very good report thank you very much uh and I do have one question about you mentioned things that have been taken out of the wa stream mattresses for example and textiles and I what's ha I know what's happening with the textiles textiles are being broken down into fibers they can be used in in in various ways what's happening with the with mattresses are they is it is there a process for taking the materials out and reusing them or are they somehow ending up in somebody else's waist stream no um they there are companies that are um taking the mattresses apart and putting them back together again apparently and um so that they're reused and it's one of those um chicken in the egg I guess uh instances where the state says you we have to do it and then businesses pop up and start to expand and do it so there's one out at Fort devans that handles a lot of the mattresses now and re was able to recycle the mattresses somehow keep the the core of the mattress and have new padding like a reupholster sofa I'm sorry like a reupholstered sofa yes yeah yesy okay any other questions John uh just very quickly uh John thank you so much thank you to the members of the committee um couple of points to make uh I'm really glad that the select board has taken up this uh practice now of hearing reports from our various boards and committees and commissions because this is an example of why it's it's so useful to kind of step back every now and then get the big picture of you know the the very important um achievements and progress that's being made um on issues such as solid waste and your committee deserves to you know take take a lot of credit for that so thank you again for that um and I I I want to take this opportunity to point out that five out of seven of the committee members talk about you know being dedicated are third termers so they've they've really getting fly paper they they come back you know term after term and having that kind of experience is really is really great yeah um and I'm sorry for anyone listening who is thinking wow I'd love to serve on on that committee right now it's full but stay tuned you know there could be an opening in the future and I think you've inspired people to um to want to continue the the work of this committee it's great progress being made good thank you okay thank you John I again um I Echo the sentiments of rest of the other board members that we appreciate uh the report telling us what you're doing uh and the successes you're having thank you very much hey next uh update our sustainability and natural resources uh division um I see Aaron gallentine and beo getting ready to present good evening Aon CH Commissioner of Public Works and pleasure to be here this evening and I also want toite recognize uh chair John Dempsey the solid waste advisory committee and the incredible staff for the work that they do it is commendable uh they are making a real difference uh across the town um Brookline is known as a leader uh in this field and it directly relates to the next topic that we're going to talk about which is sustainability um dpw's 10-year strategic plan published in 2022 uh lists climate mitigation and adaptation as one of our top five guiding principles in May 2024 the Department's priorities supported by the town's climate reduction and Net Zero goals and most importantly catalyzed by the select board's climate forward Vision led to the creation of the division of sustainability and natural resources the division's mission is to develop and execute policies programs and projects to combat and mitigate the effects of climate change and to sustainably manage and protect Brooklyn's natural resources to build ecological and climate resilience our director for this role Alexandra veio was perfectly positioned within the town as the former now interm director of parks in open space for nearly four years uh educated from Yale with her Masters Environmental Management with a focus on climate science and the environment and previous roles and climate and sustainability leadership to take this uh new challenge Alexandra lives and breathes sustainability climate resiliency energy environment and actionable change we're lucky to have the best of the best leading the charge for the town this evening Alexander is going to provide an update on the structure of the division areas of focus actions to date uh both completed and underway and a vision for long and short-term goals going forward and for those of you in the audience I encourage you to download the update provided in the select boards packet for additional information on the remarkable work and with that I introduce Alexandra veio all right good evening everyone and thank you uh commissioner sh um uh Alexander veio director of sustainability and natural resources and acting director of parks in open space um so this evening I'm going to start and give you an overview of our organizational chart um this is for the new division this is still draft and and going through review by HR but we're really excited for this and I think um you will be as well when you hear why so this team is really set up for Success it looks so different than many of our other divisions or departments here in town and that we are really trying to build a very interdisciplinary interdepartmental team here and that's really necessary to deal with a complex problem like climate change so um in here you will see that we have a conservation and natural resources manager uh and we also have um and that position has already been filled we have a conservation and sustain ability assistant and we're actively hiring for that position and then we have two new job positions in here our deputy director of sustainability and our sustainability Outreach and program manager and those are two new positions uh that we have drafted job descriptions for and those currently are are with HR under review really excited to bring on some additional expertise to the team and build out uh the the work plan for this group you'll also see that we have these dotted lines that sit on either side of the organizational chart and uh I think that's one the unique features here this is to help make sure it's understood that we will be working very closely and collaboratively both with our forestry division within parks and open space uh through our urban forestry manager as well as the deputy director of public buildings through our building department and then below you'll see um on the organizational chart there are two boxes and the one that's labeled operations really speaks to this larger into disciplinary team from the various DPW divisions as well as uh across the the town as well and that includes everyone from our transportation team from our zero waste team uh and our environmental engineer to to think about storm water management so again uh really emphasizing uh what we can do if we're bringing together all of these different components and not working in those silos so what does our work look like I like to think that we have these two guiding documents for our division we have our climate action and resiliency plan and we have our open space and Recreation plan and so I know sometimes folks can feel frustr frustated the idea of another plan oh my goodness uh but I'm a strong believer in the value of an effective clear measurable action-oriented plan and that's what these two documents are going to be they will be informed by all the other plans that exist in town um so our storm water master plan our zero waste framework our Hazard mitigation plan those will all feed up into what will be the guiding documents for uh for this division to really Define our work uh we really want to make sure that these plans are not just action-oriented but have funding strategies have implementation plans for how we're going to get there and have prioritization as well the focus areas for the division um this is a bit of a snapshot of what those include so as I said this interdisciplinary team is really looking to both Focus internally on our own operations as a town as well as externally we want to make big reductions in energy build resilience to the stresses of climate change and we want to support our local ecology and natural environment helping with carbon sequestration biodiversity and more so the core Focus areas include the built environment that's everything from fossil fuel free buildings Energy Efficiency electrification expansion of renewable energy our transportation sector uh our Fleet electrification including this beauty up on the screen right now which is our uh very new EV trash truck um I believe the first one in New England am I allowed to make that claim yes first one in New England um not so humble brag and then um as well as our uh zero waste work our Organics diversion as we were just hearing about textile recovery our natural resource management everything from our tree canopy uh protection and expansion nature-based climate Solutions invasive species management and then building climate resilience as well and the intersection with Hazard mitigation we know climate change is here how do we prepare for those impacts and and take care of those most vulnerable to those impacts through storm water management greed infrastructure and uh heat island mitigation so while we are a a new Division and a young division I'm very proud of the work that we've already been able to accomplish to date um some of these things go on behind the scenes and so it's it's not always easy to tell that there's work happening but um it is there um and really proud of what we've been able to do um so our division Administration we've as I mentioned been able to organize this new Division and think about some of those new positions as well as funding to support them uh We've successfully hired our conservation and natural resources manager and are very close on that conservation and sustainability assistant and that uh key working group of staff that I referenced at the bottom of the organization chart previously has already started meeting um and coordinating our work and thinking about ways that uh we can really support one another to achieve some short-term um immediate goals that sit in front of us some of which we're already well on our way to doing we've also had the opportunity to work with the zero missions Advisory Board uh and uh through that also select board member uh Paul Warren as well as our liaison to think about the right structure for the board um and to think about the right meeting frequency for the board as well we've also had the opportunity to look at uh funding that we'd like to utilize uh from arpa to help support the kickoff for this Division and with that uh we see that being really useful for our development of our climate action and resiliency plan um we've also had the opportunity to do a lot of planning a lot of reporting and looking for those dollars uh so we have developed that bid for uh request for proposals for professional and Technical Services to update the town's climate action resiliency plan that is officially out on the street right now and we will have a a firm selected here by the end of the year uh we're also as I mentioned updating the town's 7-year open space and uh Recreation plan uh we have renewed our Brookline green energy contract for three years we have locked in lower rates for the next three years starting December 2024 through December 2027 uh also helping us deliver on our uh green energy goals for the town we also working um to make sure we're complying with all the various State mandates including our Municipal vulnerability preparedness program or MVP um it's not a government if it's not an acronym and so uh MVP program allows us to apply for additional funding through the state to fund different resiliency initiatives um and they have some specific requirements that we're working to comply with to make sure we're eligible for those dollars likewise there's a new program through the state called the climate leaders program and we're looking to leverage dollars available through that um and apply to be a part of that program we've also looked at all of our CIP proposals through this year's budgeting process I've been a part of that to think about how can we make sure that one we are looking across the departments on ways that these projects can work together to achieve shared outcomes and two how can we make sure that we are putting investing our dollars in the most sustainable outcomes possible and we are looking as I mentioned for uh Grant dollars and that includes uh through a recent opportunity with the Mass Save program which I'll talk uh briefly about here at the end and then finally the town operations this is the stuff you can see so this is a little bit more exciting to folks um and so that includes uh what's photographed here which is our uh pilot compost drop sofin program that you heard a little bit about um I want to give a shout out to swack and the whole zero waste team we already have over 550 people signed up and participating in that program with only one month of it up and running which is really really impressive uh we also already have many other communities coming to us and asking how did you do this we want a copy off of you which is always very flattering as well uh We've expanded our public charging station so now in Brookline we have 64 level two charging ports and two level three DC fast charging stations as well uh and then we've also increased our electrification of Our Own Town Fleet we now have 32 electric vehicles in our town Fleet uh as of uh December of 2022 we had zero so it's been quite an increase over the past year and a half so what's ahead this is all you know sounds good but the the uh the big Works to come and we have a lot to do and we understand the urgency behind that so we've uh thought about our short-term goals which to me that's coming up for the next year and then our longer term goals as well so we really want to build out this successful team we want to set it up for success with the right people and the right skills we also really want to expand awareness of and participation in programs that already exists that help us reach our climate goals so that includes everything from the electrified Brookline program to Mass Save uh to other electrification and Energy Efficiency uh grants and then we want to uh develop through public process both the climate action resiliency plan and uh the open space plan and get those finalized in 2025 and then complete the MVP the Massachusetts vulnerability preparedness program Grant and then in the long term those plans will be our work plan they will help guide our work they'll make sure that we are all rowing the boat in the same direction that we all have the ores working the right way and we're all facing the right way and we know where we're going and so we really want to scale what is successful what is uh achievable what has funding and support behind it and we also want to partner with other organizations and Community groups to achieve that uh we'll have instituted in some key educational campaigns as well uh one of which um will be through the Grant I mentioned earlier which is the mass save Community Partnership Grant we would like to uh submit an application for that this Friday which will allow us to hire an energy Advocate um to help uh raise awareness about these various energy reduction initiatives and programs and then we will continue to leverage Grant dollars to achieve the various uh priorities outlined in our climate and open space plan and then finally we will uh through the MVP program it is a requirement that we achieve uh Implement a what they're calling a seed project um so again more of that on the ground work that we'll be able to do after a robust planning process as well so with that um I'm happy to take any questions and I want to thank you all for your uh work and service with us we appreciate it thank you uh Mike um thanks very much um two questions about uh electric vehicles one is are we we have 64 level two charging uh ports and we also have the level is the level three in Webster Street operating yet yes it is um so I think it'd be um very important to let people know with signage and for that you have to go to DPW I believe um and uh to so that the public knows that these things are are are out there because and related to that are we do we get usage data back from charge Point uh we do we do and have been following the uh DC fast charging stations very closely um because the usage there I don't have the the numbers right in front of me but it has been uh has astronomically increased over uh what we've seen from the level two charging stations so there is also I think a bit of a community there that said oh have you heard new new level three stations here and they're being highly highly utilized right okay which tells you something about what we hopefully will be able to do in the future I realize it takes a lot more much much more expensive and and and much more time to get a level three charging station in but it serves a lot of people very quickly uh that would that's if we can head that way that would be great but getting the data back from uh charge point you see a rise and you know how how how we uh what sort of utilization are you seeing yeah you know we're seeing it creep up uh Trend up every single month every station that we open up at a new location is getting usage as soon as it is online and and able to be utilized um and we're seeing a significant uh a steady increase um in the number of vehicles that we see that are using the stations as well so um again we've seen uh a much sharper uptick with the level three Chargers than with the others um but they are all getting usage uh across the board okay good and then uh you showed the um uh the uh trash collection truck an EV um that's very impressive uh cost difference between that and uh and one this fuel by whatever the alternatives are natural gas or or diesel uh it's a good question I don't know I don't have the C you know John King he's gonna be upset if I call on him I'll call on Aaron um um probably has a better idea of the cost of uh of a diesel trash truck but um the EV truck was more expensive however we were able to get it funded through a grant okay that and that was my next question can we get grants for that that sort of thing yes answer it's it's almost double for uh a packer um so very expensive um but with with grants um you know we're able to do that this time and we'll continue to look for that that opportunity in the future all right is that how many vehicles of heavy Vehicles do we have Al together we have um how manyy hackers I mean we have hundreds of heavy Vehicles if you look at all of our snow oper I mean we have several hundred pieces of you know heavy equipment many of those would not be eligible for Ev because of the type of work that they do but we do have some such as um the the Packers because generally you use those for that function and then they would be able to charge overnight you're not using those for snow plowing another piece of equipment would be our street sweepers um similar type uh you know you use them for that function and then they would have the opportunity to recharge so um we have done an inventory of the uh Fleet that we have and what would be uh compatible and eligible for Eevee in the future great thank you Paul yep um I just wanted to to share um I've been thrown into Alexander's world when I became liaison to Zab um and I just want to acknowledge that um you're doing two jobs uh two very big jobs at once um and I want to share with my colleagues that um she is incredibly efficient uh at getting stuff done um she uh has written rfps quickly uh she's turned on a dime with uh the she kind of went by it quickly but there's this opportunity with Mass Save uh for a three-year Grant uh that was brought to us by Mary Dart just maybe two weeks ago as an opportunity uh to do it and she responded very quickly and not only did she respond but she reached out to uh peer communities asked them how they were leveraging it uh worked with Aon and Chaz to understand how might we integrate a grant funded resource um it's remarkable how much you get done uh in a day and I do want to compliment you for that um I think I think the um the the most important thing on the to-do list is the updated climate action plan and resiliency plan that's going to drive everything forward um I know the RFP was issued today I think or yesterday yesterday yep yesterday um and this is you know a really critical part of uh aligning everybody the Departments the community the select board uh to all be rowing in the same direction on what our priorities are where should we be investing and when um and making sure that everything that we do uh is inte it has to be in our DNA to respond to climate um and that's your job you are the ultimate integrator of all things in Brook line and I appreciate you uh your willingness to step up it's a hard job and you're doing great so far so thank you thank you Paul appreciate that David yeah David hi so I have some questions regarding the new sustainability division so they're you're looking to recruit for five FTE correct um that includes myself but yes okay and uh you also mentioned that you're looking for arpa funding to help kick off the division could you elaborate on what you would utilize the arpa funding for the arpa funding would be used to support the uh consultant services for the development of the climate action resiliency plan that we're talking about all right now now given that the overall grant funding is for three-year period are there already some considerations in place for what will happen three years years from now with these five FTE I think the uh goal for the division is that we're able to uh one through the three years of work demonstrate the the value of what's being done and the impact of what's being done and then integrate those long-term into into the town's uh operating budget some of those already exist um so the conservation and natural resources manager is already in the operating budget as well as the uh conservation and sustainability assistant so two of those are already there um uh so the goal would be that um between uh the work that's been completed and the grant dollars brought in that we would be able to extend the life of of the um services and the division okay thank you John thank you so much for the report uh and I'm just I sort of have a theme tonight which is that people deserve to know that Brookline is is making progress and this is as good an example as I can think of uh 5 years ago we did not have zero emissions Advisory Board um now not only do we have one but the talent on that board is just amazing um we weren't sure how that board was going to work with a um newly created um sustainability director and division position um but we're working that out and we didn't know if we would find somebody who would be really at the top level um to lead that department and with you I think we have found that person too bad you have to still do the recreation job for now but um uh it's it's great that you're um the parks job excuse me um it's it's great that uh you're transitioning to uh you know full to focus exclusively on the the sustainability part of of things um and um I want to also just set out a couple of markers I I know this sounds a little bit self-aggrandizing maybe but for Brookline but uh I do think one of the um people talk about like how will you measure progress in the future how much money we bring in in Grants I think it's going to be a huge measure of you know the success of our programs there's never been as much money available for this you know existential goal of trying to do something about reducing fossil fuel use as there is now and to be part of that you know your indicator of success has got to be are we going out there are we seeking them aggressively are we getting them um the second thing I want to say on that front is that and and it happened just this week and is happening with a grand application that we have just talked about tonight there are so many people in Brooklyn who want to be part of this effort and who want to be volunteer for this effort um and volunteer their time volunteer their thinking um um even you know take the initiative in writing a grand application and sort of saying how about this um and I do hope that we make take maximum Advantage just like we take maximum advantage of the grants that we take maximum advantage of all of the volunteer help that is out there in the community I know that's not always easy um and it's um it can be a little bit like hurting cat cats and it can but it can also be extremely uh productive so um just uh something something to think about um as you go forward and thanks thank you I appreciate that and I just really want to Echo what you said we have an extraordinary Community behind this and um also but um select board member Warren said as well uh the zero missions Advisory Board incredibly talented incredibly dedicated have been very helpful to me through this transition um and the many many climate groups that we have out there Brookline mothers out front climate action Brookline um you know many folks that are really committed to this work and really care and we couldn't do it without them so um absolutely hear what you're saying and are appreciative of their collaborative efforts thus far great okay any other questions thank you thank you and um commissioner did want a flag for the board um just what Alexandra following on what Alexandra said that's been done since you know even December of 22 has really been um thanks to your leadership on this so we want to thank you as well for giving us the opportunity to work on this in this priority um we know it's a community priority but in your working through um how to use the arpa funds for green purposes and you're working through how to develop the sustainability division um we're really grateful that you've given us this opportunity to work at the Vanguard of you know sustainability in Green Space so thank you okay next uh another relatively short discussion of the Washington Street project good evening for those of you just joining at home my name is Aon chud I'm the commissioner of Public Works and uh we are pleased to present an update to the select board this evening on the Washington Street complete Street uh Rehabilitation project um I'd like to take the opportunity to recognize uh two of my staff that are here uh this evening we have Dan Murphy who is our director of engineering and transportation and Amy Engles who is our transportation administrator um they do a tremendous amount of work to um get these plans ready um you know each meeting that we have they're working with the consultant team really trying to finesse the concepts um and pushing that design so want to recognize them for their work on this project and everything that they do it is a huge portfolio of work uh that they manage so um as a brief introduction our um Washington Street project um sort of big picture goals uh complete streets to better accommodate uh all users and prioritize those that are most vulnerable um safety and access um this is traffic calming safety for those that are driving in vehicles but those that are also using all other modes um in particular we look at those that are most vulnerable um multimodal so um looking at all of those types of um ways that people try to and do um move through our community and how do we keep them clear and safe um through this arterial Road we're looking at ADA compliance enhanced streetcape so really placemaking we're looking at lighting at pedestrian scale lighting which is really important um in particular when you're thinking about um those uh that are more senior is really having in um where they can be surefooted uh and enhancing the commercial vibrancy uh and promoting Economic Development um these are all goals um that are equally important uh for this critical project like to say that we have a tremendous design Review Committee that is working on this project um appointed by the transportation board we have representation from the shared Mobility committee the t- board pedestrian advisory committee disability commission uh director butter um bicycle advisory committee um parents from the safe routs to school task force uh Brookline Village commercial representative Washington Square commercial representative and also um a Council on Aging representative as recommended by the select board which has been a terrific addition to this um committee it is a large committee we have had tremendous involvement in our um public meetings and it's really helped um further the design so meeting to date um we've had the transportation board um we've had pre25 um% meetings these are meetings with multiple departments within Mass do uh and with the MBTA met with police fire all of the emergency response Services uh we have had eight design review committee meetings to date uh and we will have another one in early December we're looking at December 9th right now tentatively we continue to keep MBTA and mass do up to date on our progress um so we meet with them and update them um periodically as we um Advance the design uh we held a meeting in this room for all department heads to get their input and ask if there was anything that they had coming up that they could foresee just that would be important for us to include in the design I met with a small business development committee we had an open house for the businesses uh went on a um full uh walk of the corridor uh which select board board member Warren joined and I think it was really um eye openening to to sort of walk the corridor with the plans and kind of see what's being proposed and then last week um we participated in a um public forum with a League of Women Voters so we've had a tremendous amount of participation the scope of the project U goes from uh Washington Street at Beacon all the way through to Station Street and so that's that's the area that's been approved proved by mass do and through the tip um we say 1.3 miles it's actually 1.1 and that point2 is as we get to each of the cross streets we're going out a little bit um to make all of those correct uh connections a lot of raised Crossings for pedestrian safety and then what we call Upper Washington that's sort of in that orange up above that's the opposite side of beacon on Washington going to the Town Line um that neighborhood came forward and said we want this too and we want you to make you know do the full Corridor so we are designing that kind of in tandem following this um this ultimate design and that will be um built and constructed by the town separately but just to say that that we will be knitting that full uh the full Corridor together so I'm going to introduce uh our esteemed chairperson of the transportation board say Brian Kane has done an incredible job at managing and leading these um meetings he does an incredible job with the transportation board um he's all over the state um with his role um as managing the advisory committee as the executive director for MBTA um serves on the no he's a great advocate for Transportation uh and for the town of Brooklyn and really we would not have been able to get to the place we are now um without his leadership on the transportation board and um through this process so with that I'll turn it over to Brian and then our team to walk you through what the design looks like today uh I'm not sure about esteemed but thank you uh I am Brian Kane and I am honored to be here tonight uh I have the honor to chair the transportation board in the DRC as the commissioner said and uh the best part about those uh positions is that I get to work with amazing people uh in this town uh we have some of the best municipal staff in Massachusetts and I say that as someone who travels uh to city and town halls every day um we have some of the best folks here and it it's really great to work with them uh Dan Murphy and Amy are here they've been mentioned uh Sam um Dan there's just so many good folks uh we couldn't name them all um I just wanted to briefly just talk about the process that we've gone through and we've gone through an extensive process and I'm very grateful to the select board and the Town Administrator for their assistance and their leadership on this um it's been a a a long process as the commissioner mentioned uh but it's always been civil and while folks have have disagreed at times we've never hooks have never been disagreeable and I'm very proud of that fact uh it is uh not always easy to sort of get everyone moving in the same direction uh as as I'm sure you all know better than me uh but I think this design Review Committee uh is working we are making the proverbial sausage out in the open and sometimes it's messy but uh it is producing a a much better design and I ultimately believe a much better product when this is all said and done uh and I'm really uh believe that in 2028 or 2029 when shovels go in the ground we will have a Washington Street that we all can be proud of um this is not a bike project this is not a pedestrian project this is not a car project this is a Safety project uh in order to qualify for the $30 million that we just can't afford right now we we need to get the uh the funding from uh mot and the federal government which which will pay 80% of the costs the state will pay 20% of the costs to do that we have to meet their design standards and that's the design process that we're designing to um it's important that we remember these funds are not guaranteed uh someone mentioned in public comment earlier that project is fully funded I wish that were so um it is not we will be competing against 98 other communities in around Boston for these funds and while Brookline fares incredibly well at the Boston region Metropol and planning organization which the commissioner sits on on your behalf Mr chairman uh it's not guaranteed and and one of the important things that Mo the mo looks for is support of the of the community and support of the municipality so uh the leadership of the select board has been will continue to be incredibly important as we move forward with this project as we go through the scoring process as we go through the uh additional design processes it's going to take all of us to Contin to continue to Advocate and Lobby for these funds and uh I I know that uh the select board will be there with us again thank you for your leadership on this uh and and for uh assembling such a great team and allowing us to work with Ty and bond and and these two great guys behind me uh and thank you for the opportunity to serve this community that I love uh on the uh DRC and the transportation board thanks very much thank you good evening everybody my name is Christopher seret I am a design engineer and project manager for tyan Bond uh we are the Design Consultants working with the town of Brookline on this Corridor project um we've been part of the public participation process to date we work with with the public works department with the community at the the design review committee meetings the public meetings uh the neighborhood walk which I think was a great success that would advocate for future projects to have that that was really insightful for us as the designers to hear concerns in person on the ground boots on the ground I think that was a great great opportunity to to meet with uh stakeholders and oh go over the uh proposed improvements and and really visualize what the um what what the constraints are along the corridor so what we're going to do tonight is we're going to provide a brief overview of what the project scope is what some of the existing conditions are what some of those constraints look like and then we're going to do a a quick breakdown and review of the corridor almost like a a drive-thru right we're going to look at each cardor segment review the proposed improvements review where we are this is an iterative process so the plans that you'll see here tonight or the segments you'll see here tonight may look different if we looked at this 6 months ago because of that process with the design Review Committee for existing conditions Washington Street is an urban Min arterial uh it is the main route to three commercial districts and houses two schools and the high school right so this is really a Community Center Washington Street but besides the schools you have many municipal buildings including Town Hall public safety building the library and the Public Health Building the Cora is served by the MBTA and their bus routes so you have the Route 66 for a small portion but the major maity of Washington Street is encompassed by the route 65 bus uh there's an an evident need for uh Transit amenities and also operational improvements on this Corridor right the MBTA they they're looking at this as an opportunity as well to improve their experience and the ridership along a corridor such as Washington Street and in in respect to a complete streets Corridor such as this inconsistent and adequate bicycle accommodations we have seasonal blue bag stations but if you look on the card you see there there are on-road bicycle Lanes in some areas there's shared accommodations in some areas so this project as as as um chairman came from the design he said this is not a bike project not a pedestrian project this is a complete streets sort of Rehabilitation of the corridor in its entirety a varied sidewalk conditions and width lack of ADA Compliant slopes and ramps and also a minimum curb reveal to to Really it really sort of provides a gray area between the roadway and a pedestrian area along the sidewalk so the scope of work it's a full depth reconstruction of the project so it's a full reconstruction of of of subbase material of asphalt intersection improvements to provide safer intersections that's creating curb extensions at crosswalks tightening curb radi to really to really change the the experience of the of the user whether that's a cyclist a pedestrian or a vehicle rapid flashing beacons at crosswalks uh crosswalks at side streets looking to raise those and become a raised element to provide uh an an easier pedestrian route and and cyclist route uh for other modes of transportation new sidewalks with Ada accessible curb ramps as something I alluded to earlier Improvement of MBTA operations along the corridor and also utility upgrades you see National Grid gas is out there and there sub contractors are out there now upgrading the gas infrastructure we want to make sure the utilities under Washington Street are up to-date are operational so when we come through and and work on our roadway carer project we have a clean slate to work with with design challenges this is a 60ft right of way uh we have competing interests along the corridor such as traffic operations MBT bus routes on street parking along the corridor and pedestrian and cyclist demands utility coordination I think that kind of speaks for itself the everything the corridor looks beautiful because there's nothing overhead everything is underground so when we get into construction we get into design that creates a lot of challenges for us and a lot of coordination efforts with those utilities both public and private utilities uh protection of the existing tree canopy it's a beautiful canopy in great health and that's that's kudos to the tree Warden conservation efforts within the town you drive through an urban Corridor such as Washington Street and you see um such a healthy canopy that we're looking to to uh protect and be cognizant of part of our design and finally challenge the density of adjacent buildings and driveways it is an urban area and we do have to take that in consideration when we are designing our proposed improvements so a quick few visualizations of the Carter we've seen these Graphics in the past on our public meetings but this really helps convey what we're looking to propose uh for a typical section right so this isn't what we're going to see everywhere but this is the ideal footprint that we want to see along Washington Street two 11t travel Lanes one in each Direction you have an on street parking Lane on one side that parking Lane is 7 feet in width um looking outside of the curb line so curb line out uh we would have a a a buffer and or a raised a separated raised bicycle lane that would be sort of in between a buffer and the existing tree line so if you look visually you really take that existing Tree Line the bicycle lane would be on the road side of that tree line and on the the building side would be your sidewalks all of those elements are raised up from the roadway about 6 in which is a typical curb reveal but that's really what I I use to visualize is that existing tree line to put it into spatial in spatial recognition this is just an old an aerial overview of the proposed improvements again helps put into context what we're looking to achieve along Washington Street you can see the separated bicycle Lanes the the the buffers that we show in green for clarity and for visual parking areas uh and this is a a recent aerial image of Washington Street that we've overlaid our design improvements on so now we're going to get into some more of that segmented review of the corridor looking at digestible pieces and and just really conveying what our design is currently to date um so starting at Beacon Street we're going to start at Beacon Street along Washington Street and we're going to move towards Brook line Village uh so at Beacon Street uh this alternative here or this layout here reflects our we call it the short and left turn lane concept which is really it's one travel Lane approaching Beacon Street uh westbound on Washington Street right so we still maintain uh the the turn lane and the the travel configuration within the two uh barrels of Beacon Street uh this area has just one lane approaching Beacon Street the the benefit of that is it allows us to provide on street parking on the South Side here page bottom page and also allows us to have a separated bicycle facility and sidewalks um extending to the intersection at Beacon Street as we get through the corridor uh this cross-section is pretty consistent excuse me uh with having the the a buffer against the roadway the sidewalk level separated bicycle Lanes sort of the tree belt the existing tree belt which you can see where the green boxes are very scientific but the green areas uh that shows where an existing tree is today that we're looking to protect and maintain and then behind that which currently is today would be replacing or reconstructing the sidewalks this next section here is from the fire station to Fairbanks uh you can see the fire station driveway is left side of the photo uh below you see a sort of a hatched out area that area is to take into recognition uh the the the equipment and the vehicles coming out of that fire station so they can make sure that they can come in and out without obstructions from on street parking uh you can see here parking on the south side of Washington Street extending up almost all the way to Fairbanks uh again sidewalk level separated bicycle Lanes maintaining the tree belt and sidewalks at the back of sidewalk so really the footprint of this job is really or project is really back of sidewalk to back of sidewalk that's a it's a complete reconstruction of the corridor and if you think about it it's really building face to building face in an urban Corridor such as this from Fairbanks to an address 587 Washington Street again we're we're conveying or we're we're continuing that cross-section through this area uh you could see uh I pointed out to one of the high friction crosswalk treatments uh the intent and we've heard a lot of feedback from the design Review Committee from from residents from abutters is to really Elevate those those cross street Crossings to to make it more of a pedestrian and and cyclist friendly and safer albeit safer Crossing at those side street intersections any crosswalk that is not at a traffic signal would have a rapid flashing Beacon uh you do have some of those on the corridor already but those are really the push button activated flashing yellow beacons that really highlight the presence of a pedestrian utilizing a crosswalk this is a great example here you have two crosswalks on this section of the corridor and you can see the curb extensions at each of them curb extensions help reduce Crossing distances they help U really increase visibility of pedestrians looking to cross because you're you're so much further out into the roadway I'll be protected by uh still at sidewalk level curb High um with with the curb extension so it really this is a good really complete Street example um outside of a signal Iz intersection this is more of a a through a throughway example of how we Implement const Street complete streets elements we get to Garder Road here this is a a good example of reallocating space within the corridor so right now Garder road we have a few examples of this but this is the first one that we're going to look at here is we're bringing the curb lines in and that's reclaiming some of the existing roadway into other areas uh whether that be pedestrian facility whether that be a green space with you know with storm water and storm water treatment uh we heard that from a previous presentation about uh streetscape and green infrastructure green infrastructure is something that we look to implement here and this is a great opportunity of a space where we have the ability to to reclaim some of that roadway uh into into something else two rapid flashing beacons here at Garder Road uh this is really if if you look at it an overlay of what it is today versus the configuration here those Crossing distances are much much shorter really helping safety and visibility for pedestrians the separated bicycle Lanes continue through this area uh we do have a t symbol on some of these Graphics I I should have mentioned that earlier that indicates where a bus stop is right so a lot of the bus stops along this Corridor uh were either uh relocating to The Far Side of an intersection so the bus would go through an intersection before stopping um and also we've looked at a few areas where we've looked to consolidate bus stops BAS on spacing and and um ridership data keep going on Gardner Road carrying through that cross-section separated bicycle Lanes curb extensions maximizing parking you'll see some areas here where we have two to three parking spaces and again from the direction that we've received we're really looking to maximize on street parking where feasible uh along along Washington Street similar at Griggs Terrace you could I think this is a good a good example here we do have a crosswalk U just say east of Grigg's Terrace again shorter Crossing distances uh the the intersection between a separated bicycle lane and a pedestrian Crossing but really let's focus for a second on the bottom side of this image really the sell side just the density of the driveways I I talked about that earlier in my introductory slides as something that's a design constraint that's something that we need to be cognizant of as we're designing not only a separated bicycle lane but a roadway in itself uh having that density and really presenting what the grading challenges and and constructibility challenges presented in an area such as that Park Street U at at a recent design review committee meeting we had favorable um we heard favorable results uh regarding the signalized intersection here with just one lane approaching each Direction uh so this intersection has one lane on each Direction approaching Park Street on Washington Street uh that gives more opportunity for pedestrians and cyclists to have more maneuverability on the sidewalk and also um really kind of uh again reclaiming some of that space uh for alternate uses such as uh bikes pedestrians and also potentially green infrastructure but we are moving forward with this as part of our concept uh as we as we continue with the design Review Committee and ultimately through the the design process with Mast thought but this will be a signalized intersection one lane on each approach uh and you can see here the uh the high friction crosswalks at Park Street at waybridge this is really our other example of reclaiming space if you if you are familiar with the area you you know how wide and sort of um un undefined that intersection is so by by reclaiming some of this area uh aligning the intersection to more of a 90 degree area a 90° angle excuse me uh really gives us an opportunity as the designers as the town uh to implement things such as storm water uh Garden or or green infrastructure or a pedestrian area cyclist blue bike station we as options are unlimited right so we're we're really at this point of the design we're really focused on curb line cross-section those design details will get flushed out as we proceed uh but that is again highlighting an area that we have some flexibility with our with some reclaim space and then we get to the school Street we're approaching School Street uh from our feedback from the design review committee meeting you'll see parking here on the north side of Washington Street uh this is something that we've heard a lot of feedback on from residents of those apartments and or condos so the parking is there on that side and then again a curb extension on the North side to to Really uh Define where the parking is and will be and I'm going to turn it over to Allan cluer as part of time Bond so Allan's going to walk us through from school street and cyers Street all the way into the village and then we'll have some closing closing remarks and I don't have too many more slides coming up um but from here on out is when some of the designs get a get very interesting um so the first uh intersection really the intersection of School Street and Cypress Street initially when we uh approach this and our our very first uh go around through the design we actually had a much more similar to what's out there now little bit of tweaks here and there um but then as the design kept evolving we started looking at what's possible what can we really do so at this intersection uh we definitely got uh got some magic markers out and try to get a little creative so and this uh design we presented the designer Review Committee and definitely um this was the one um that was much more favorable mostly because of the improvements to the pedestrians of bicycles um it definitely makes things a lot more controlled you don't have these really wide Crossings like you do now and essentially it's two intersections operating like one intersection so we'd have them running on One controller um operationally similar to what's out there now again the biggest difference is really for the pedestrians and bicycles um it really makes all the crossings much much shorter um I think I'll just kind of continue along the corridor um continuing further really right in front of the library Town Hall we're we're starting to get there now um in this stretch we actually have one stretch where we actually can accommodate parking on both sides of the street um so we were able to keep actually a lot of the parking there still having the sidewalk level separated bike Lanes some curb extensions rfbs um and then we're really approaching Holden street here um so similar we actually throw as of right now we put in some symbols for Ada spaces although the exact location of those might be uh moving we're kind of starting some discussions with um some people around town to kind of figure out where the best spots are um there are criteria as far as them needing to be near a ramp but we also want to be where they're going to be the most useful now I'm actually going to talk a little bit about holding to Harvard we kind of this stretch we actually um haven't gotten quite definition from the design review committee so the next meeting um I'm actually going to throw show you three different um Concepts here the first one is the first one that we came up with protected all the trees but we had no parking between Holden and Harvard and that was actually where I think we heard the most from the business Community was especially on the South Side they have no areas to load or unload um or parking behind their their buildings so we came up with another concept of course this is black and white so a little tougher to see on the screen where um this would remove some of the trees on the south side we're able to accommodate at least nine parking spaces in this stretch right here um to provide you know some parking and or loading or unloading and I think that was looked upon more favorably but we haven't gotten we're still working on this and then a slight revi um tweak to that concept was to you know make a little bit narrower sidewalks a little bit narrower shoulder and try to preserve a little bit of space that maybe could be used for outdoor dining there's a couple restaurants right there that have some outdoor dining um and or be used for public space if it wasn't but that would be on the store side or the building side of the bike lane so we would not have people crossing a bike lane to get to um any dining so those we haven't I think we're still working through the design Review Committee and then down the last stretch between really Harvard Street and station um this kind of shows the concept where we actually have the on street parking on we'll just call it the south side of the road um and I actually put a little table here well we've had tables on all these slides as far as what the parking um Supply was for that particular sheet or that that segment alsoa kind of uh separated out for the entire Corridor per I guess third of the corridor give or take um between existing and proposed so I think for each section we do have less parking than is currently out there um you know the ratios vary a little bit um and of course this stretch between cyper Street to Station Street there's two numbers here because it's either 47 parking spaces or 56 if we have those nine spaces um that we kind of talked about a couple slides ago I know we're getting getting on in time so I'm trying to talk quick um and then last is we also looked at could we re redo this intersection here really the intersection of Harvard and Washington so this the concept that we presented that um definitely make makes things a lot simpler I think for pedestrians that's and operationally um this would operate a lot better because we really didn't have those we don't have long clearances we also don't have phases for Davis and andom we've really just had those come out as stop controlled um intersection so it realigned into one intersection it improved the intersection operations it relocated open space so rather than having that triangle you kind of have it on a different corner cor slightly different shapee about the same amount um of open space um could provide you some opportunities for placem now one thing that in some of the discussions we've been talking about Davis Avenue um about possibly having left turn restrictions coming out of there so under this concept it would be more about hey there's not going to really be a whole lot of space for you to take a left um if you were to be turning there so um still I think the design here is still not completely finalized we for this concept we'd also have to talk to NBTA about bus stop locations um so we're kind of working through this one right now um this particular location really hasn't been decided upon this is um is looking favorable but a lot of it depends on the NBTA and how we could work out bus stops and I think I'm gonna pass that to Chris he only has a couple more slides so we'll talk very fast I just wanted to also reiterate the fact that we are looking at a two-way a two-way bicycle lane option between hold in in Harvard uh as as well as part of our design process um so uh Mr Kane uh reiterated some of the the tip funding process as part of his remarks so I won't have to go through this but this project is on the tip it it has to go through the mass UT design process uh the town has some action items that they they have to work through whether that's design environmental permits and rightaway costs um and this project must have a secure RightWay and permits in place uh when it's advertised schedule moving forward uh we're looking to have another design Review Committee in December once the design Review Committee process is done we'll look for approvals from design Review Committee Transportation board ultimately the select board and then advance to the massot process and then we have encourage public comments uh through the website email address and also the design Review Committee thank you thank you Mike so uh I have quite quite quite a number questions here and I'm going to try and condense them a bit I should tell you that I am Brian's uh grandfather I was the transportation board chair a transportation board chair before him so sorry Josh got everything he went to and he went to New York so you know um so first of all this is very interesting and I really appreciate the presentation and and the I love the details um a couple of things one is with regard to realignment of intersections um I think it's a really interesting idea to realign um uh uh to rely where Kent Street comes in and or yeah Kent Street comes in uh uh and the the question I have for you is you're sort of doing the opposite at Cypress and where Cypress flows into school um like why uh and you don't have to answer that but it is you know strikes me that jeez you know that's kind of odd you're doing one thing one place and another another place place um my understanding is that my recollection is that we have control over where the MBTA bus stops are that's a local local control uh matter yes I I would say that a lot of the bus stops are looked at strategically whether that be spacing between bus stops and as I reiterated uh during my presentation Far Side of intersections and particularly signalized intersections uh that helps with getting the buses through the traffic signal and then stopping once through the the traffic signal that also has some safety benefits too because if you stop the bus stops past the traffic signal the crosswalk for for pedestrians is behind the bus helping with visibility right so there's a lot that goes into placing it's is very strategic when we look to place bus stops no but I understand that understand that I appreciate the nonetheless that further explanation but uh my ISS my question is we have we can tell the NBTA where we want put the bus stop is that is that or or asess correct I don't I'm not necessarily 100% sure on whether like it's we I know we have some input Brian has raised his Thum so I I assume that that's right yeah okay um the last thing is um oh actually two other things one is it's really important with with taking parking spaces out of there we're going to have a very interesting discussion about trees and parking spaces um when it comes comes to that Brookline there are three things that are very valuable uh in Brookline lives trees and parking spaces and they're sort of equal yes and um uh but it's very very important to have good signage included in the project to identify where people can park uh off Street there's a lot here at Town Hall there you know there there's a lot on Kent Street there there there are some other places not a lot but some other places to park and it's really important to identify that um and um the last thing is uh we have to think about the effect of having one lane of traffic in each Direction when a UPS or an Amazon or a FedEx delivery vehicle stops in front of a house U because what happens now is they usually park in the bike lane so that's a big help to a bicyclist um and what will happen is that they'll be in the the travel Lane which will perhaps screw up the cars um so uh any solutions to that or do we just you know live with that so that's something that as we get through the design process that we're looking at right loading zones have come up deliveries have come up and and how we deal with that both on a design perspective and also on the municipal level so that's a great question we we we've heard that question and again as we advance through this process we'll look for opportunities to accommodate things such as Lo loading zones okay uh loading zones may not do it for delivery the delivery drivers tend to stop wherever there's an address um so okay it sounds like we're going to live with it um all right and the last thing is uh there was an article in the New York Times about a redesign of Fifth Avenue uh putting it on a road diet going from five Lanes to three um which I thought was a very courageous of somebody um but uh but uh there was discussion about bike lanes and so forth in there and you may want to find that article and take a look at it absolutely Paul yep uh thank you first I want to uh thank the design Review Committee uh and all the members because I know I've been participating in a lot of those meetings are observing and how hard everybody's working um and what's remarkable is uh that the responsiveness to the public comment the comments from the select board and others um I think you're listening um and I appreciate it um greatly um I did uh have an opportunity to participate in the walk which was incredibly informative uh for me to actually see it instead of looking at a drawing on the screen or on a piece of paper in a box um and I it was really helpful for me um it adjusted my thinking a lot uh it alleviated a lot of the concerns I had um about the project um I have spent U quite a bit of time uh and on this uh I you've alleviated my uh a lot of my concerns with Washington Square um the parking that you added back in there so I'm like I'm comfortable with Washington Square um I do think that we need to have a dedicated raised bike lane for the entire quarter I don't think we should sherow people I don't think we should use flex posts um I think that's really important um I did spend uh quite a bit of time uh visiting and knocking on indoors in the village with with the businesses and just listening to them and what their concerns are um I think it's it's really important to add back the parking spaces between Holden and Davis and then the parking spaces between Davis and station I think you showed a couple of scenarios where they were on the right I think that's I think that's really it's critical um they're still losing parking but this is about balance right what's a reasonable balance uh between what we the situation we have today and the situation that we can have in the future um I I keep getting asked by uh by folks the business community in particular uh what is the commitment to wayf finding and signage um I think it's really important to have that as a line item in the project that says we're going to design it we're going to install it there's going to be big PS there's going to be arrows uh we're going to work with Google and whoever the other wayfinding maps are ways to be able to identify and help you park uh when you go to Portland Maine that happens it should happen in Brookline Village and and Brookline in general um and then the second thing is a real commitment uh a verbal written commitment that we will do a parking study for the village a full parking study that will look at utilization what are the Alternatives how can we get better utilization out of the existing spaces um you know where those spaces are located how can we better utilize uh the town hall uh lot possibly we've heard Pierce um the Kent Street parking lot there's a whole bunch of spaces on on Spaces on Kent Street that are dedicated for permit holders those spaces are often empty um I think there's a lot that we can do uh to help um make up maybe not one for one but certainly do a better job uh expanding access to and utilizing the the real estate for parking that we do have um what I'm hearing is that's the type of commitment that the village wants uh to hear um you know and right now I'm very of uh the direction that you're going uh with uh especially from Holden street to Station Street um the the reconfiguration of the village is really interesting to me I think Mike had mentioned having kenry come in um you know but I'm going to leave that to the professionals to figure out how to make the turns and signal is working uh but making sure that we add in back in the parking uh for the village not 100% but let's find a good balance uh this is about balancing the needs of many many users and I think that'll go a long way thank thank you R thanks very much for the presentation and and thanks very much too for the work that's been done because I think that uh just I I'll I'll concur with Paul um a lot of good things in this plan from Washington Square uh I'm going to reserve judgment for the time being until you answer some questions on the portion in Brookline Village um but first if you don't mind I'd like to step back um because I I think all of Us in these discussions tend to lapse into jargon and maybe don't realize we're lapsing into jargon and a couple times tonight I've heard on the tip yes could could someone explain what on the tip means and I I do know what it means but I think maybe some people don't sure uh so the tip is the state Transportation Improvement program so it's a funding mechanism that works uh it it's allocated uh a budgetary amount of funds that's projects such as this get funded through and that money comes from uh the federal government and and state of Mass Commonwealth of Massachusetts so it's really a funding mechanism this project is one of many projects that goes and competes for those funds so we we we would put together or the town would put together a package uh that would identify project deficiencies really project need and really try to sell the project to get that funding right so it's really a way because $30 million project is very difficult to fund locally with communities so it's it's a way for to receive uh federal and state funds for the construction of projects such as Washington Street and a and um is this project on the tip yes it's because I I heard something said at the League of Women Voters Forum which just caught me totally by surprise because you know and Brian said it very well that what what had been my understanding of everything and and he he repeated it tonight which is oh there's like 98 commity ities and it's kind of like a jump ball you know we got to cross our fingers and hope that ours gets funded somebody sort of put it that way at the league forum and was corrected and was told no no no th this is programmed on the tip it it's not like this is a big like mystery as to whether we are on the tip we're on the tip and then later in the evening it was explain what could happen is if we don't comply with all of the schedules and if we don't submit a final design or interim design and then another design and a final design that meets with their requirements the requirements of the tip um we could lose that is that more the correct that's correct that's correct it's it's it's uh my my boss will be listening it's more about project Readiness right so where're we have a date where in a year or or two years based on the size of this project it's at least two two tip years uh but this all about project Readiness so our project is funded and it's funded early so we're not even at the 25% design and we're already have a place on the tip but as we get closer to that they re-evaluate uh every year an update comes out and and really look at project Readiness so where are they are they on schedule is the project moving forward are there issues locally to get the design moving so it's really a year-by-year process so right now yes we are funded but it it's all comes down to readiness and and what we're doing uh for for design advancement okay so I I asked those questions because I I think to a lot of people it was kind of a mystery um I if we're only one Community out of 98 that's competing we're spending so much money and time to kind of get this design right and you know really we might not even get the money um but it's it's not that um you know we're well on the way and and yet we have to stay on the path that is prescribed for communities in this tip program in order to get all the way to the finish and it's also really important to to look at scope and scale too right so this project it's $30 million plus or minus on the tip there are projects that are a million dollars there are projects that are hundreds of millions of dollars right so it's not just the the where we are it's if if something were to go wrong or not go wrong but if we're there was a delay it's a the ability for for the sort of moving the pieces around to fit that project back into the tip right because it's a big number 30 million this is a substantial roadway project with a $30 million plus or minus budget that you would need to sort of refit into future tip years so okay it it's really important that we stay on schedule and and and so the the the point Behind these questions is that I think a lot of people want to know how much flexibility do we actually have to say you know tweak this change that um we we like this part but we don't like that part and I think now we're getting a better picture that you know we got to stay within some very that's correct clear boundaries if we're going to get to the end of this that's correct and and one of those boundaries which this is also something I didn't even realize until today but it's in the documents for what is called the Metropolitan planning organization which is the organization that actually sort of oversees the tip yes process um it's in one of their documents that tip projects include cycle tracks doesn't say bike Lanes doesn't say protected bike lanes and so what we've been seeing in the designed for this project is a cycle track is that is that right so where I mean getting into technical terms we're proposing sidewalk level separated bicycle Lanes right so this project has to meet the the requirements from mot right this ultimately because it's funded constructed by mot we must adhere to their requirements so that's design requirements that's directives including the healthy Transportation directive so in order for us to move through that process it goes through several reviews through massot whether it's District reviews Boston and and our design must adhere to their standards and and the community standards as well but there are certain as a as a design engineer civil engineer there are certain sort of parameters that we must meet uh to move forward uh and get approval from cot cycle track seems to be kind of baked in as the preferred way to do a protected bike lane and and that's different from uh you know painted lines or the bike on the stre pavement it's bike on a reserved area that is shared by the sidewalk and this cycle track Al is there a technical is did I get anything wrong there track yeah I mean I I think this would be a big benefit to the bicyclist rather than being on the road right um so I think there's also two different things to look at one is the Mast do requirements for a road of this volume would have to either have a um we'll call it a separated bike lane because that's what they tend to use that which is the same it's cycle track um a buffered bike lane which is paint you know a painted buffer and then on road or a side path or shared use path shared use paths don't really apply here too well because of all the storefronts um but so there's certain criteria that require certain width on top of that there's also when we talked about the funding this project got scored this project got scored based off of separated bike lane so cycle track yes the cycle track sorry we have our terms we just keep using all the time understand I understand um so it was scored based off of uh what we're really showing on the plans right now so if we suddenly were to uh do something differently the score would change if we try to do something too differently it wouldn't necessarily meet the mass do requirements um and of course if we had missing segments like out there now that's when you would really have to worry about the project okay and and um I'll try to move along um because I I now am at the point point that I was trying to get to which is what if it turns out that um we have we have married the idea that this will will have a cycle track as its form of protected bike lane cycle track being not the bike in the street but the bike on a shared space that is shared between a sidewalk and a bike track um what if that works great for all of the Washington Street Corridor until you get to the that that key part of the Brooklyn the heart of Brooklyn village where you know there's Davis a on one side there's Kent coming in on Harvard Street on the other side um it it works great for all of Washington Street all the way to that part of the village but then a cycle track maybe isn't the best approach to how to get bikes through the Village um are we going to have the option of saying cycle track doesn't you got people coming in and out of stores in a very constricted space and we're going to try to have the sidewalk sharing a space with a cycle track and people getting out of cars crossing the cycle track to go into stores people coming out of the stores crossing the cycle track to get into their cars pedestrians it's a busy sidewalk it's not like most of the Washington Street Corridor sidewalks which are kind of empty most of the time it's a very busy sidewalk and can we really pinch together sidewalk use and a cycle track use in that part of this Corridor so I think any deviations you know we could definitely you know potentially have to fill out some design justification workbooks and kind of present it to mass doot and kind of get their input I mean the most important thing is that we have good bike accommodation throughout the entire Corridor they can change a little bit as as far as what they are um especially you know Chris even mentioned there's one segment we might even look at something a little bit different like a two-way yeah on one side of the road you know I I'm gonna kind of like it it depends I how far exactly where how were we terminating it there's you know yeah well like I said I'm I'm comfortable with with this except for that portion and I think some other people might not be comfortable with it and I'll give you an example of a question that was asked at the League Forum will are electric vehic bicycles and scooters um illegal on the py cycle track the answer that they got at the Forum was currently no so now we're talking about a pinch together sidewalk and cycle track space that could conceivably have electric scooters electric bikes and bikes non-electric bikes um all competing for use of the cycle track side by side with sidewalk use you know right in front of people people who are are shops that are being visited uh and exited by people constantly doesn't seem to work to me maybe it does to other people but it doesn't seem to work to me so I I think maybe just to punctuate this for this evening um what do wants what Mass do wants is a locally preferred project they want us to be on the same page when we go to them and say we have a 25% design concept that the design Review Committee the transportation board and the select board are behind um they want us to agree on what that is um in terms of their design criteria they want separated bike facilities period if we are not going to propose that we need to look at every option uh in terms of why we would divert from that and um and then make a case as to why it's not viable and it has to be really safety related can we fit them yes um can I help you make the case and well there are a lot of people though that actually do want that separated bike facility and this is a SE this is a Safety project period so there's there's a lot to work out in terms of uh new ebikes and how they share um dedicated bike facilities that's something we're going to have to look at but we're also dealing with real problems post pandemic with speeding crashes and fatalities so um we are looking at the at the whole Corridor comprehensively in terms of all modes we are trying to slow down traffic and separate different modes of travel but and I do hope you realize that the question I'm raising is one of safety of pedestrians this seems like a very tight area that have pedestrians going back and forth back and forth back and forth right next to B bikes including electric bikes including electric scooters on a level pathway adjacent to where they are walking yeah understood and I think to the to the question of what happens is we don't know whether Mass do will accept that type of modification well just briefly I and I I really appreciate uh John's comments and I unfortunately did not uh watch or participate in League of Women Voters uh presentation I had a conflict but you know I live this every day John in St Mary's in St Mary's we have a sidewalk we then have a protected bike lane and then we have parking um and I know of no incidents where a a pedestrian has been run over by a bike or electric bike or a scooter um and certainly you know it does require um a change in our Behavior just like when you go and you ever go to Jamaica you going to make sure you look the right way because a bus might come and take you out because they drive on the wrong side of the road as far as I understand it's not the bike on St Mary's is in the street yeah but it's John that the the way this is being designed and again I I I'll leave it to the experts these are visually separated segments if you're walking down the when you come out of a store you're not going to be confused by that's the sidewalk of the bike lane these are two very visually distinct uh arteries correct this you it's not one segment of pavement it's it's actually a visual separation um and I I can't imagine it would be a terrible design if you don't know which is the bike lane and which is the but which is the the sidewalk correct or the road and actually um for most of the corridor again there's some sections where trees might change generally the sidewalk is on the back side of the trees and the raised bike lane is on the street of the trees so although the trees aren't everywhere you know they're kind of you know every I know 100t or so but generally you will have trees kind of separating the two and then also whereas the sidewalk is is going to be cement concrete the bike lane is going to be asphalt so there will be a visual difference as well um so if you're actually kind of out there you can almost see where the curve is now and generally that's where the bike Lane's going to be and then Park how wide would the shared sidewalk and bike track um space b combin the bike lane is generally 5et in the village so since we're still talking about a few different options of holding to Harvard that one I guess depends on the three different concepts right but outside of that generally you have mostly about 5 feet behind trees for the sidewalk now where you have where in between the trees you know you that sidewalk is wider you know it's 8 feet nine feet wide then the bike lane is basically always going to be 5 feet wide and then we usually have a little bit of a buffer between them and the parking hey Mike um so uh listening to John as he was beginning John the same question occurred to me and I should add that I have a class two ebike um and uh and I think it's important to understand the differences in speed between class one class two on the one hand and class three bikes and motor scooters and electric scoters and so uh not all of these things are created equal and the question is can we keep the ones that don't belong on a cycle track off and in the in the street but one qu one possibility is possible partial solution at least to the concern that you have and it's a legitimate concern is widening the sidewalk because the sidewalk through the village is not terribly wide is that something that is in the thought process here generally we're with that 60 foot right away we're squeezed like we're we're talking inches a lot of times with this design where we're like you know especially if we're trying to maintain parking everything is really really really tight yeah um all right that's an answer thank you a few questions so uh we've talked about this the portion of the corridor in Brookline Village but moving back toward Washington Square so toward Beacon uh there was some illusion to some St steps having been taken to sort of assage the concerns of the business community in that area could you run through what those steps were so yeah so right now there is actually a as you're approaching Beacon Street there's a two-lane approach just for a very short segment um and then of course you know you have another Lane there so it's really you have three lanes for traffic um and as we're trying to lay it out with a separated bike lane because it takes up some space for the bike lane and buffers and in some of that's area where there is no currently there currently isn't bike lane at all um if we wanted to maintain that left turn well we'll call it a left turn um extension of that pocket then we would have no room for parking but definitely right at that corner there's restaurants and the parking you know further down in front of the res residential isn't as in as much demand but right in there there was a lot of concern about loss of all of the parking so after you know running analys what would be the impacts to operations um really laying out all the information um they decided that it would be better to provide better bike accommodations going towards Beacon taking away that parking that the vehicle Lane and using it better for on street parking and better bike accommodations coming into Beacon Street all right uh also you mentioned that missing segments can sometimes be problematic for do and yeah so right now if you're to ride your bike down um down the street you have bike lane bike lane and then you know you come by CVS and suddenly there's no bike lane stuff like that can be a real problem because if you don't have a consistent accommodation through the whole Corridor it really doesn't work for people who are bicing who are suddenly you know stuck in the middle so they would want to have accommodation toward the corridor and we've been it's been brought up at meetings hey can you just not have accommodations through the village and no really I bring this up not so much for to suggest that we shouldn't have accommodations in the village but this design does have a missing segment in front of the fire station I believe and I'm just wondering how many missing segments are there in total uh are they just restricted to the fire station oh no no we no no no that was just where there's no parking um across we still had a separated bike lane near the fire station I think we showed in the hatched area and that's simply because fire trucks pulling out we can't have parking there because the fire truck wouldn't necess be able to make the turn so there're no missing segments whatsoever no not a b a combination no all right and then also it's been mentioned uh several times that there are certain parameters that need to be adhered to in order for this to be a tip eligible project could you maybe run through not all of them obviously I'm sure there are a lot but sort of the macro level categories that need to be adhered to um one is really the healthy Transportation so you required sidewalks on both sides of the roads bike accommodations and then they get in a little specific as far as depends on you know the volume of the road what accommodations uh could fit um there's you know curvature of the road there's yeah travel Lane width actually we had a lot of discussions back and forth with uh mass. NBTA about the travel Lane width um speed of the road there there's really a whole criteria of them all right and then also there's been discussion of the 25 5% design concept threshold uh so where are we in relation to that when do you expect that we could be there we're all we're still in the pre25 really we've been trying to work 25 is not what it used to be it used to be that was pretty early on now the 25% is you're you're halfway done pretty much um maybe more um where more and more go now they basically added a step before the 25 so we're still in the pre25 where we're trying to really identify all the issues and Lay It All Out do you have some kind of uh timeline in mind for when we get to the 25 I mean at this point you know one of the our closing slides tonight was getting through the the process at the local level right so we're still a design Review Committee once a design Review Committee Transportation board select board so once we have a consensus on the local level it that it then is a a design process for us uh mot has a a pre 25% design process process now uh which is more of like an over-the-shoulder review where they sort of take a holistic uh view of our plans and then we get to 25% so we're still several months away from that like I think you know we're targeting a few more months of of design Review Committee based on sort of the progress and the momentum that we've gained uh over the last few meetings but we're still several months away from from really getting into that 25% design process and then that process in itself is is is several months just because of the scope and scale the project okay Mike before you ask your question let me ask a quick a question that has a quick answer I think um motorized wheelchairs going to be using the sidewalks correct in the Brookline Village area those sidewalks are in really bad condition are you able to to actually make them accessible to motorized wheelchairs yes so that it's not just the village to there are segments of Washington Street that place looks the worst so you you walk it and you know T I'm definitely an engineer because I walk a street and I look down right I'm looking down everywhere so I'm looking at at sidewalk condition at curves at where tree roots are protruding out really so it's it's yes it's the village but it's it's everywhere along the Carter and that's one of our major are you able to fix it yes yes okay Mike so you I'll ask you later how um you mentioned uh the possibility of a two-way or contraflow bike lane um um the problem that with a counterflow bike line is that when the contraflow ends somebody's got to get the cyclist has to cross that's correct the two lanes of traffic um and presumably you do that in an intersection that's signalized and so forth yeah so we're we're actively looking at that now but yes you're you're 100% correct there are some challenges with and just think about going through kenmo Square the then you have to shift Lanes across three lanes of traffic or four to get to the bike lane that's on the far side of the road that who who did that design but um it wasn't us good um uh but does the counterflow lane save width it's marginal I believe there's one less buffer like when we talk about sort of an offset okay so you might save a foot yes and and as Allan alluded to we're we're talking inches and and yeah I heard along this Corridor so that is one but again there are obviously hurdles with a two-way two-way configuration as well with the intersections and being such a short segment all right thank you uh Paul yeah just one very quick question I want to get clarification on timing and next steps because there's a lot of terminology about 25% and a couple more months when when do you anticipate or when do you need to come to the select board for a vote on the design that the transportation board I assume votes and puts forward so we have an idea of what that date is I don't not yet I think we have to get through Transportation board and then select board There's Hope and then there's reality but I'm wondering what the hope is I would say our hope would be uh this winter late winter but we may be moving into the spring oh okay okay thank you okay John more just one question just one really just one um uh ju I just just to quickly I'll I'll combine two things in one question if that's all right uh a couple of things that were said I just want to make sure we we all have the same understanding there was mention of tree between the cycle track and the sidewalk have any of the designs that we've seen so far shown where the trees would be between in the village not not on the upper part of this project but just the The Village part uh yes so on the concepts that we've laid out uh there are areas where we show sort of green sort of tree pits or tree tree belts uh We've shown that uh there are a few Concepts one that we're looking at where we have the parking on the south side or the or the bottom side of the image where we would be removing some of the trees heading towards the village on Washington Street yeah but we are we are um accommodating uh the tree existing trees within our design and and as I really try to set the table at the beginning of our presentation uh if you look at the existing tree canopy now and you're looking at it to the left of it would be the bicycle lane sort of on on the roadway side and then to the right of that would be where the sidewalks are so really that that tree belt really defines the separation between the the cycle track and your sidewalk but a one or two tree hits not a continuous landscape strip separating the two no no we do not have that and just on Mike's Point about um you know uh he's he rides an electric bike um and you know the question of well maybe at some point in the future electric bikes will be ruled the you know illegal for use on these tracks which of course there's two points to make that means bikes back in the street which with the whole point of this plan is to avoid that right U but the second point I just want to make sure people understand is they wouldn't be illegal today and they won't be illegal on on that track until such time as the state changes its laws I was just going to say this community is not alone in in this this conversation we work in several communities Greater Boston area and it's the same conversation right what what do we do right technolog is advancing some of these These ebikes are advancing so how do we adapt as a community and also as a as a you know how the laws are and regulations are adapted as well so it's an ongoing issue and it's not just here thanks okay thank you very informative thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to provide this update I think we um have made a lot of progress really with um a very robust uh design Review Committee um and the public and we will continue to do that look forward to coming back with uh ultimately we hope a 25% uh design but we welcome your feedback at any point in the process okay next uh we have some more article hearings uh scheduled for 6:45 64 somebody turn back the clock that last one I knew that was GNA be tough but yeah in terms of time it was but very helpful that was a great yeah Great Exchange that was good your your electric bike is a pedal assist not a it's pedal assist that's right yeah well actually difference between that's right so there class one is pedal assist class two which I have has a um throttle a device on a throttle on it but I've never used it uh because that's not why I ride a bike but class two bikes do have throttles on them yeah I mean there are all sorts of things that that are motor that are electrified M you know electric motor put put a electric motor on a pair of roller skates and uh you see all the strangest things going down the street okay uh let's move on to article eight actually is at the podium I'd make presentation on this y all ready to move from the exciting world of transportation to the exciting world of zoning yay yay Chi-Chi woo town meeting member Precinct 7 here to talk about zoning first um a sort of kind of conflict of interest disclosure because I thought I had a conflict of interest when I started this because this zoning article was actually to benefit me personally um but maybe I don't it's been a strange Journey so this war article was the impetus is was this house okay it's a house that my family has purchased my brother is going to live on the first and second floor and we had this idea that we should finish the basement maybe turn this into a rental and turn it into a two family now the house is on a 3,000 foot lot and that's important to note well we quickly found out we couldn't turn into two family even though this house is in the T nh5 District in other words a two- family District so you would think you should be able to make it a two- family as a right but the lot size is too small and section 505 of the Brookline zoning code says that the zoning board of appeals can wave uh any dimensional requirements except minimum lot size so this warrant artic merely strikes four words from the zoning bylaw except minimum lot size allowing the zba to Grant a special permit instead of needing a variance um so decided to bring this warrant article forward you know we have a housing crisis in this nation in this state 400,000 units short in Massachusetts Greater Boston itself um and we just can't wait I mean the the advisory committee referred this to the comprehensive planning committee does the comprehensive planning committee really going to deal with four word changes to zoning bylaws they're going to get that level minua we need to deal with the housing crisis now and this is uh to make conversions easier it to prevent tear downs but allow more housing within existing structure hopefully a win-win because the zba has indicated that section 505 can only be used for conversion not tear downs and this allows a special permit versus a variance it doesn't allow buy right so you have that control that Safeguard of the zoning board of appeals there's going to be notices to neighbors there's going to be public meetings um the idea that someone um the concern brought up that you know you could expand the house and then convert it you still need to go through the zba for things like setbacks and and other um dimensional requirements so here's the part where it gets strange so I was informed by Town Council that the zoning article I as I brought it doesn't allow U extensions of existing non-conformities and remember this lot is 3,00 square foot so it's already non-conforming it's from 1905 by the way the house um and so it already is too small for a single family and then minimum lot size for two families 5,000 square F feet so I couldn't actually use this Warren article but there's this court decision called Dietrich versus zba chadam that allows extensions of non-conformities so I might not need this warrant article I can use Dietrick but my neighbor who's on a house on a larger lot a 4,000 SQ foot lot cannot use Dietrich and so they would need this zoning article so what does this mean in in absolute numbers so this if you look at this chart and I hope um you're able to see it you know minimum lot size so this is um these are Counts from the T5 T5 NH T6 and F districts and what this shows is that um there are 238 lots and and single families like the one that my family owns Which is they're they're too small the lot size is is doesn't meet the minimum lot size requirement for both single family and two family and they may be able to convert to a two family using drick and then you have 430 single families on Lots greater than 5,000 square feet we can do it as a right right now you have this sliver this gray zone of single families on Parcels between 4,000 and 5,000 square feet that can't or 5,000 6,000 in the case of the T6 that can't convert which seems kind of unfair and weird um and so this is why I'm pressing this warrant article forward to to deal with this this weirdness so that all know both the smaller and then the midsized Lots those single families can seek conversions and there's not going to be a massive wave of these conversions because there are 430 single family houses that could do this of as a right and we're not seeing a race to do this but it does give more flexibility for for single family homeowners to create an additional unit within the existing building preventing a tear down but allowing for an additional housing unit to address our housing crisis thank you so any questions who wants to start no Mike go ahead so um uh G the uh is there an alternative to for you to go to an Adu to use an to build in an Adu and assuming that we passed the change that we're likely I think likely to pass for um to allow uh to so that we can form with the state law so the idea of making this an Adu has been raised um there's a couple of limitations even well first of all we don't know the final shape of the new Ada bylaw um there's some question as to whether it would be limited to single families or single family zones or districts because the state law talks about single family districts um the other two limitations are adus have to be under 950 Square ft uh the footprint of this particular building is a thousand square feet um but now we have this dric decision so it's it's all sort of convoluted but you know if a homeowner maybe with a with a larger footprint wants to or if I wanted to create create a true two family and divide the space up it would be greater than 950 s fet and there's some question about whether you can sell the second unit so think of an older homeowner who's trying to agent place needs funds um and more funds than a rental can provide if they want to sell a unit I'm not sure they can do that as an Adu right if you create a two family then you have to create turn that into a condominium right in order to sell a SE separate unit all right that's also an involved process hi right John Chi um you have I I want to say you have my sympathy because you've tackled something that is very difficult to tackle and that is to as a citizen petition for a zoning change and you know it's not easy and um just because the zoning laws are like unbelievably complex and it's all every time someone proposes some kind of zoning change it there's always going to be um a fair number of questions asked and also some suggestions that well this is going to have all kinds of unintended consequences because of the way it maybe fits or doesn't fit in with our other zoning provisions and so on and so on and so on you you you know the story because you've been in town meeting for a while um and in this case um there's been an analysis by the planning department which essentially tells this to me you don't have to read between the lines it's pretty clear that they see a lot of issues that are going to stem from this that need it needs to be done in a different way if it's going to actually work uh without having all kinds of unintended consequences for that that weren't even imagined as being the purpose of this of this zoning bylaw change have you had a chance to review that with the with the planning department and did you start with them to try to make sure that you know we got their best Council as to how to do this so I have discussed it I discussed it early on with the planning department um I had conversations um you know there's a few things I think I Tred to address the concern about you know that they raised about a homeowner expanding the uh structure as a single family and then applying for two family which is that you know the zoning board the planning board they're all there as controls I mean they have to Grant a special permit um you know they seem to think the planning board seems to think I mean the planning department seems to think this would still allow demolitions um there's a zoning zba decision about section 505 that seems to indicate you have to use part of the existing structure in order to take advantage of it so it wouldn't allow for demolitions um and then I I would note that the planning board did unanimously uh recommend approval uh uh Rec support this zoning article yeah and and and that's that's a story for another day in terms of you know what what is a select board member to do when in the face of a departmental memo that is quite clear and quite specific and goes into quite a bit of detail about problems that they see in in a warrant article and then there's another board that disagrees with the planning board and we'll have to figure that out but uh I mean I have to say I'm a little bit perplexed about the what the planning department wrote I mean this isn't a radical change this is a forward deletion allowing the zba authority to do something and the idea that it would have these massive unintended consequences just seems you know it's hard to see okay uh um they I think David has hand up un unless you it's it's a question question so you mentioned uh that if the uh parcel is 3,000 ft or less essentially you have that uh Court decision you can proceed if it's 5,000 or greater you can convert from single to two family as of right so it's just the ones that are in the 4,000 range that are stuck yeah um for most of the districts it's the 4,000 to 5,000 square foot range um I think one of the districts it's 5,000 to 6,000 square feet but it's it's this it's this band um yeah and do you happen to have the data handy in terms of how many uh in that range have been attempting oh I mean I try to convert or to seek a variance that data I don't have I have the DAT data on how many lot lots and single families are eligible or or fall within each band um but in terms of actual applications um I am not aware of but I don't think there are a ton okay thank you uh Paul yep uh Chi-Chi thank you I I I agree with John you're very brave bringing this forward these are all it's always very very hard and and look I um I genuinely understand um uh where your heart is on this and why you want to do it um and I'm not going to fault you for that at all um I have um one question about just uh notice and understanding about what is being proposed um you know when we did the MBTA communities act for Harvard Street um there was a tremendous amount of Engagement with the public uh you know there were meetings held people understood how their street was going to be impacted how their house was going to be impacted their you know their specific property because everything was published town meeting members by Precinct knew what street was going to H what was going to happen on in their Precinct what was going to happen on their street or their neighbors and that was communicated there's a tremendous amount of standing with the community um and I my con I'm unsure if that's I know that hasn't happened here do we know how many streets and which precincts those streets exist and do we does town meeting to the town meeting members understand uh that that this change is coming and it'll affect who they represent and have you that's what I'm that's my question to what extent have we done an analysis and Outreach so that that you know somebody knows that on their street there's a proposal to change two uh you know singles to to two families or what what you're proposing I mean the process for this Warren article is the process that most Warren articles go through I mean the MBTA communities Act was the result of a lot of community engagements which was you know awesome and excellent but for example um some of the other warrant articles you know have a probably a greater impact I mean this allows a special permit other articles um for example Banning rodenticides or or um imposing you know $9,000 fines for cutting down a tree I think those actually impact the residents of Brookline much more greatly and the process for Community engagement is the process that the warrant articles go through um you know right unless you have a comprehensive plan then there's a tremendous amount of public engagement so but let me so um and I don't want to compare a a rodenticide article to a zoning art there's just there are different there are different things that are that are happening uh there um John had alluded to the uh planning Department's you know proposal and Analysis of what you had proposed and it was um I believed it was part of a draft um document for the planning board in anticipation of them having to report on for the combined reports and it's dated October 10th um I think it was shared with you shared with you today by Cara brutin my question did you see that document was that the first time you saw that document was today or had you seen that analysis before did did anybody send it to you before so you could at least respond to it um I I'm familiar with the arguments maybe I've not seen the actual document I can't recall okay so the because the document uh is is very extensive um it raises um there's they're all numbered um a whole number of issues with respect to the article uh concerns potential unintended consequences where it may overlap with existing uh zoning laws and and and other things that um a homeowner might be able to do to alleviate the type of concern uh that that you're you're working on I'm going to just read a couple of points um and again one of the concerns is that you didn't see this frankly I have a concern that we didn't see this until this afternoon at like five o'clock um but you know there's in the draft item five says although the the explanation sites of family property as a compelling example this one example is not sufficient to show land use boards and town meeting members what may be the unintended consequences that would affect at least seven of the pertinent 10 zoning districts across varied neighborhood types and then it goes on uh to provide more information uh in in further detail um point seven says and and there's many points in this I just highlighted a couple uh the possibility that warrant article 9 conversion of all two family districts to three family districts complicates the consideration of the Warr of Warr article 8 for this reason talk test Perry which is something that's coming in the future rezoning project plan for fall 25 town meeting which is exploring additional density along with the elimination of required minimum lot size is a promise way to resolve the limitation requiring required minimum lot size presents the housing choice that the petitioners rightly raises and I guess the reason why I raised this is we're in a very unusual circumstance we have a almost a portfolio of 10 zoning articles um and and we're we're looking at them discreetly we're not looking at them in an interconnected way what you're proposing impacts article 9 which is going to be coming up which the article uh potentially has a role in play this article 7 all of these things are interconnected and the one thing that really impressed me during the NBTA communities act work was that we had a deep analysis about how many units were potentially going to be produced what was the theoretical uh production what was the likely production um we knew by segment We Knew by Street um and this article your article which I appreciate while you're bringing it Forward is is connected to all the others and we don't have a holistic view as to what we're looking at going forward um and it it concerns me um again everybody individual intent is I completely understand but when you look at it as as a portfolio and a package of zoning changes it's significant and no one's been able to show me what is the overall impact on the community of all these different zoning changes coming that are interconnected and that's that's a conc a concern have I would encourage you to look at detail at uh the draft report um that was written by the planning department and for the planning board um I don't know if it'll make it into the combined reports but it does raise a number of issues that I think probably need to be addressed uh as part of your your presentation on the article so um I have looked at the memo after receiving it from carab Brut and I as I said I tried to address some of it I mean it is all interconnected um and the R line is we are in the middle of a housing crisis and we cannot wait years and years to do something comprehensive where everything gels perfectly people need places to live now we are short housing and that's why our housing costs are spiraling out of control um and we need to do everything we can within reason to get to produce housing especially in multif family districts especially when you have a two families on you should be able to do two families as a right period what are we doing people need places to live especially places opportunity places like Brooklyn with good schools and access to the tea and I I I don't want to go I I don't think we should go through years of trying to figure out where everything fits perfectly and spinning out unintended consequences because the unintended consequences of what we've been doing for decades in zoning has caused the crisis we are in he Mike so um and and after you I want to open up the hearing right um so um I this very interesting you started off pointing out that this was something that you know you had a personal interest in because you have a particular house and there's a um Paul there's a um uh a legislation that that sometimes is introduced called the private bill uh a private bill is a law that affects a specific individual or a group as opposed to the general public and to a large extent that's what this is the difficulty is that um it has a broader effect because it's a zoning change um but I I personally I would much rather look at it as a private bill uh than as a broad zoning change um uh the complication is you're taking out four words that have a meeting and you know it's only four words but you're an attorney you know that four words can make a very big difference in a in a in a in a document um the the la the so the I'm I'm looking for an alternative for you and I'm wondering whether is a zoning variance absolutely out of the question is that is that just to owner or something to to go through because that is it sounded like that was an alternative uh even even with the current zoning bylaw um so I have been informed yes variance is very difficult much more difficult than a special permit right oh I'm aware of that yeah and I I would also say that I mean I did this prompted by my own situation but you know obviously I don't want to just do it for myself I want every homeowner who's got a house in a te or multifam District to be able to do this too to help our housing shortage with conversions which because everybody's so up in arms about tear Downs let's build more ex existing housing within the envelope so you know you know and at this point I'm not even doing it for myself given the dri decision that I I could do this using that particular court decision um you know you know I mean you know me like I'm not doing anything for myself well no I I'm not please I'm not absolutely not accusing you of anything you have a right to come and ask for relief from from a particular sort of Catch 22 in the zoning rules there's no quarrel with that uh absolutely um but I'm I'm just it it does nonetheless blow over into uh into other areas and the question is really whether um whether it it it has impacts that we that we uh wouldn't want to see and we read that memo and honestly we pay a lot of attention to staff memos uh we read that memo and we think or at least I think um is this a sensible thing to do is there some alternative uh to that that will allow uh allow you and others for that matter to um uh if they have the same problem to uh to build that second unit Why why wouldn't you just withdraw your article your problem solved and let us work on the broader problem uh with a little more time well first of all it's out there I've put the time in second of all I do think it's rather unfair and perplexing that homeowners in that band from 4,000 to 5,000 square feet can't get relief but I can with a smaller lot and folks with a larger lot obviously don't don't need it um I also think you know everything we can do to alleviate the housing crisis and create more housing which within within reason which I think this is very reasonable should be Advanced um um I have a great deal of respect for the planning department I really do and I've talked to them at length um but I I I think we need to keep I mean the entire zit is we need more housing and frankly I'm perplexed by War in article 7 for example that's downzoning I I don't even know how we can think about it in a time like this and I I just want to add for the next Warren article I fully support that too I mean we really need to tackle this um I I think we have an obligation to tackle especially as a high opportunity neighborhood or Community okay so this is a public hearing uh T can you open up the public hearings yes uh now that the chairs open up the public uh hearing I have uh Linda palky who signed up to speak on this warn article in advance Linda I'm promoting you now and you can begin your 3 minutes and your video if you're comfortable hello can you hear me yes thank you hi um this is Linda olssen pelky I'm in two meetings at once so I'm a little incoherent but um thank you for letting me comment on war article 8 so I guess I would just like to address a few things that were raised um one is this really is um very impactful to a lot of parcels and Chi-Chi showed you a chart that talked about the number of parcels that were impacted in the te zones the S zones but it's also the M1 Zone that it impacts and the purpose of the minimum lot size we can debate that we can talk about that but it is set in conjunction with all the other setback open space bulk and massing rules for each of these different zones and they all have very different um situations very different goals very different typologies and this war article doesn't address that at all we really don't have a good handle on what the impacts would be we have seen that there is nothing in the article that would um prohibit expansion of the building before conversion it says does nothing to prevent demolitions and I think it's an interesting question it is kind of a strange um you know Catch 22 in the bylaw but I think this whole question of what do we want to do about conversions and minimum lot sizes is a much larger question that needs to be analyze in the broader context and to speak to the public engagement point we absolutely need to engage with our residents before we make these kind of changes because they will be impacted by them in terms of what their neighbors do and in terms of the let's get going and doing something just last year we up zoned we did the largest up zoning in Brook lines's history for the entire Harvard Street and um the decade before that we had permitted 1,400 units we have over 1300 units permitted that are simply not being built I think we're doing above and beyond our weight in the region so I would ask that the select board vote to refer this article or vote no action um thank you I ask a question of Linda Linda yes refer to oh we um this the um advisory subcommittee and the um we we voted to refer to the comprehensive plan study committee because the comprehensive plan process is designed to set the vision and goals and identify areas that we do want to see change and then work with a zoning consultant to bring zoning reform that is holistic and enables that plan to be implemented so it's a process that will eventually get us to looking at all these zoning changes so it's not necessarily that committee itself um but it is referring it to the process if that helps you can approach the podium to speak Steve hiken is uh in the podium thanks members of the select board U I didn't actually come here to talk about this Warren article but since it came up uh I want to say as a member of the planning board that uh when we heard this uh proposal from chi chi wo and she described it initially as something really was for her own particular family condition I think that's where we realized that although there was relief available to her in her specific situation it did identify a large problem as she told you with the respect to a s narrow spectrum of properties where relief for all kinds of of the zoning was available in terms of setbacks Etc but not for undersized lots and I don't recall I know we've already voted unanimously in favor of this I frankly don't recall whether we saw an extensive draft report from the planning staff that had all kinds of issues with this um I can say that there was a draft report on war article 9 from the planning staff which we disagreed with and as far as I'm concerned the contents of that draft really need to be set aside and the planning board support of Warren article 9 is what the planning board puts on the table and similarly I I'm not sure how much um stock I mean I respect the hard work of the planning staff but we sometimes come to different conclusions for them and if that's a draft planning board report with respect to this warrant article I would take what the planning board's decision was as our support for it not withstanding the unintended consequences that were identified and I fully support Chi-Chi's comment that there are a lot of unintended consequences related to our sitting in place and letting things pass Us by while we spend a lot of time looking for Holistic Solutions I think there the planning board unanimously supported the comprehensive plan but at the same time we said it should not cause other ongoing and potentially other strategic targeted looks at our zoning to be set aside for three or more years so lorth supports this effort and as you'll hear we've supported some of the other zoning and I'll I'm here mostly for Warren article 11 and I'll sit back down and I be question having a back and forth but is there anyone else well there's no one else who signed up in advance but pa okay well if you want to close the public he then we well we should ask there are other people who wish to speak online if so please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature is there anyone else in the room who wishes to speak on this particular warrant article okay there approximately well there's exactly six people in the room and approximately 36 participants online and no one else is in I want to hear from Paul and but not close the hearing so that yeah this thank you I and I appreciate uh Steve's comments um and you know the the important thing about the materials that were shared with us today um and which I forwarded to the board for you know because I think it's important for you to be able to understand what our staff's Viewpoint is some on on an article I think it's actually really important when there they have an opinion and an analysis with respect to Citizen petitions because they've already done the work in the analysis on on staff planning articles like article seven but you know citizen petition articles um you know this what what I shared with you today um were were forwarded to me by the planning department um and there there's no commentary on here at all about um the opinion of uh or the discussion or the de the deliberations of the planning board which is actually helpful um you know I think it's important that this board and actually all boards be able to benefit from the Council of our their analysis and insight from our professional staff that we hire um and I I just because the planning board disagrees with it I wouldn't want it to not be able to see it and understand it because I'd like to be able to understand their opinion without being filtered by anybody um and I think that's what we received and I appreciate it um although it kind of came circuitous if that's the right word uh to us um I do think that it it's important and I respect I'm looking forward to reading uh the planning board's um reports and the combined reports and and how they interpreted this information and the conclusion uh that that they came to I'm looking forward to that but I want to be able to benefit and I really hope I can benefit in the future from the unfiltered um uh analysis of our professional planning staff and not have it um you know lost in in the process because it didn't make it through a committee um that that that's all okay before uh Charles I hope you Chaz um please answer why we didn't get this report except through uh Paul who somehow little right hold hold time out time time time time time let's let's correct from came from Wikileaks no wik hold on I will I will I will give no no you used weasel in my name and this I don't appreciate EXT and and no there's there's no devarious way all came about this totally the right way totally legitimately there's no and there was no attempt on the planning Department's you know part to hide this the reason why we don't publish draft reports is because staff has to work with these boards all the time right and I would take another example the parks and recck commission has a lot of authority and a lot of importance and they are a policy-making body for the town they are given advice by staff all the time that they may say thank you for the advice but as a policymaking body for the town or a body that recommends things um to the town um we we we see this differently um and we're going to publish we're going to take your advice and we're going to take what we need from it and we're going to ultimately go in this direction and we're directing you to issue this final report in this way so the reason why draft reports don't ordinarily make it out of draft format and Beyond is because we don't want to set up a situation where you know someone says hey you know staff said this but your planning board said that and then you know are we um are are staff staff undermining an elected or appointed body is Staff you know that's the situation we have right now and and staff that's not staff's intent staff you know at the end of the day the the elected and appointed bodies of the community are the decision makers we provide information and guidance and at times our opinions but when what you say goes right and we don't want to be in a situation where someone someone says oh staff is trying to undermine the work of a board that they report to because we and again it's not our it's not our intent we never do we don't we don't do that but we don't want to be in a situation where someone says there's a Minority Report out there you know someone is suppressing this we don't want to be in a position of having of of saying we're you know we're not adequately supportive of the of the elected or appointed bodies of the community so let let me be clear I don't think there was any ill intent on anybody's part okay I think our processes flawed okay the the in the process of going to the planning board which is a respected board they provide a critically important function to our town okay the the initial analysis um and thought process of our staff went to that board um and through their process they'll end up issuing a report to the combined reports I suspect it wouldn't include it may not include this analysis I my my my suggestion is this going forward especially on citizen petition articles I would like to see the planning department develop an analysis and potentially some opinions and recommendations that are that are independent of any border commission they do it and then they publish it at the same time they can make it a public document they can share it with the select board the advisory committee the planning board the hab whoever whoever would be able to consume it in the process of formulating deliberating and formulating their opinion but I I I think that's the only way for us to get the true unfiltered uh value from our professional staff I you know otherwise I don't know what would we have ever seen this um this analysis I don't know I don't think we would have ever seen it chess um if I didn't stumble across it and I don't think that's I don't think that as a board member I want to benefit from my professional staff that's my view and I yeah but on the other hand I mean if it's a draft report what but the report includes it's it's a draft report but there's no report it's the analysis that's important or a draft analysis it's an analysis right do do we do we want to put staff on on the spot of giving us everything at each iteration of their thinking their analysis well sorry yeah um sorry John go ahead yeah thank you um yeah think about the the the the opposite situation to what we're in right now so we have you know a couple of articles that are you know have implications for our zoning which is a very complex matter eight and nine we have our meeting at which we are to try to figure out what is in the best interest of the town when it comes to article 8 and article 9 UM and yet we we have nothing in front of us because the planning board happened to disagree with the very well articulated concerns that were expressed to the planning board by the planning staff but we don't have that in front of us in fact we have nothing in front of us the planning board hasn't issued a report on this yet how am I as a select board member supposed to know what a professional judgment on this article is if the professional Judgment of our professionals is being kept from us you know I it just doesn't work that way we we need like like Paul says and I agree with them you know we we need the pro professional advice of our staff in addition to the considered Judgment of our planning board but we can't be denied one so that the you know other can sort of trump the advice of the staff I agree so I what I I would say here too is that staff is at your disposal for these things so if you want a report from staff on these issues um this is the time to do because you're not voting on this tonight you know we're happy to do that we are happy to provide you with Guidance with your with recommendations upon your request what we don't want to do is potentially be seen as subverting the process which is you these boards in the case of the planning board there are statutory responsibilities that that board has um they're not just an advisory body they are a policy-making body um and we want to be cognizant of that in developing you know the the way that this is supposed to work is that the planning board's recommendation comes to you with the assistance of Staff staff you know hashes it out with the plan you know you know provides guidance to the planning board the planning board makes a recommendation that recommendation reaches you and that's the system in place with that said that doesn't preclude you from asking staff's opinion and in this instance we're happy to provide that um I mean there's no we're not trying to hide the ball with these these things it's just the regular order which through through which we have gone has typically been if there's a board that has unique expertise or just expertise that is supposed to be writing the you know report to you on this and report to town meeting on this we work with that body that body then presents its recommendation to you so that you can feel hopefully confident that you have the recommendation that has been filtered through a political process and not just the process that that we go through with staff because you know staff's recommendations aren't always followed and there are often political reasons for that and we don't want to be in a situ we and and that's not that's not a bad thing that's the political process we just want to be sure that you you you know you you don't feel like the and the public doesn't feel like they lack confidence in their boards and commissions um or that staff is somehow undermining that process J do you mind if I asked CH has a question about what he just said um would a draft report of the nature uh that we see in front of us tonight uh be a public document yes oh well so take it back it would it depends um ordinarily drafts are not um but in certain circumstances if this is been disseminated for discussion um in C in certain circumstances yes I think these documents based on where they are in the process would probably be viewed as public documents because they're being used to to reach a final decision on something and if there are public documents would it be inappropriate for for um staff to either decide on their own or under pressure from a board um to keep it uh not to let anyone know that the document even exists so these are these are ultimately draft documents right um and what they the point of this is to make sure that the when the final version comports with what the recommend you know it follows the recommendation of the board this is a process that we go through to try and get a draft document together um and you know we usually do submit drafts in planning into planning board packets ahead of time so they are public documents in this instance I think there might have just been a timing issue or something that may have resulted in this not being in the public packet and we'll look into what happened there um because his dated October 10th I definitely don't want there to be the sense that we're hiding the ball because we're not we're not we're trying to go through no I know that I know that I wasn't meant I didn't mean about David yeah it's just I want to push back a little bit on what I'm hearing from Paul and John we're talking about U unintended consequences in the Ambit of uh zoning warn articles but similarly there unintended consequences to expecting direct draft reports from staff that report to another board whether it's elected or appointed and I think we want to be very careful about not undermining the work of other boards and that political process which is not to say that we should not gain access to that information in other ways so for example we will often call in Town Council when we have questions about something and Town Council certainly addresses other boards as well but we can talk to the office of Town Council directly similarly if we have questions about a zoning Warren article there's nothing that precludes us from engaging directly with the related staff and saying we have questions about this this is complex could you please explain what your uh Department's thinking was on it and that I think can be separate from a draft analysis that hasn't been finalized hasn't been fully fleshed out not commenting on this one in particular but broadly speaking I don't think we want to create a chill effect on producing documents that are not necessarily ready to go public and simultaneously potentially subvert the work of an appointed or elected board and again I'm not saying that happen in this particular instance I'm talking more broadly because it sounds like this discussion has evolved a bit into how we would like to proceed moving forward so I just want to be careful about that can I respond can I just a quick question so uh David thanks for your your comment so you said something that was that's interesting to me that and I think you were suggesting that the the planning department staff reports to the planning board they do not they report to the Town Administrator the Town Administrator reports to us that's that's they do not work for the planning board um and you know second so that's really important okay and for me as a select board member to not be able to benefit from the Council of staff that ultimately Works through the Town Administrator on our behalf um I I I I think that's a problem the second issue I I do want to point out is I know that article nine this it doesn't say draft on it it's it's all it is is an analysis it's an it's their thinking was actually in the packet it was in the packet of the planning board how do I know that because I was sent the link to the packet so that I could download and forward this due so it was in the planning this very document um uh uh uh was the advisory committee wanted to put it into their packet so that they could benefit from the analysis they were told no they could not distribute it it's a public document this is it it's concerning me I don't know the perfect fix but I do as a select board member I would like to be able to benefit from the unfiltered unencumbered unpolitically whatever analysis and thinking of our professionals that's what this is because it was pre political process of going through a board um I think it's important that's my view um I I I I think that David's comment about unintended consequences I think we have to think just a little bit more about the unintended consequences of what we're talking about talking about here um I I'll tell you with regard to this specific issue with regard to this warrant article the um I read the um the draft report and I thought this is a problem uh but when I hear that the planning board has said something different I I Rely very heavily on staff but also I listen very carefully to the planning board's ultimate decision I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other um but um I so I think that the most important thing is to hear what uh uh uh what our appointed boards uh have to say they do report directly to us um there's nothing in the world nothing in the way of getting of getting a staff report by asking for it uh and I think that's that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do but to make it a part of the stream of materials that we put into our um own packet when they're drafts and where you know I I I think that that's a uh there there are unintended consequences to that I'd rather not have that happen yeah CH I I think I think that's right at the end of the day we're here to answer your questions what we also want to avoid is the idea that we we are here to you know issue an independent opin without being asked for it we need you to ask us in order in order for us to feel confident for that so all you need to do is ask us and we're happy to provide that okay okay so the public hearing is still open could you see if there's anyone else yes there are there's a Martha Huntley Martha I'm appoint promoting you now you can start your video and begin your three minutes you're on mute okay um we set to go yes so my husband and I are 28 year uh homeowners in Brooklyn Village we've raised three children that have gone through the public school system we love our life here in brickline and um we enjoy we've enjoyed a ownership of a two family home uh our home is quite vertical we're getting older and uh the idea of being able to age in place is quite appealing to us um but you know there are um obstacles with a three level home we're fortunate to have a backyard and I guess I'm just sharing my support um to be able to um provide some opportunities for residential homeowners to be able to have options to leverage um their existing homeownership uh to be able to reside continue residing and enjoying and contributing to our community uh I'm I'm also a realtor and um very often you know I'm talking to homeowners that feel that they do not have affordable option in Brook line to be able to stay here and continue enjoying the neighborhoods and their contribution and and of course drawing from their history of of uh having lived here um it's a loss to our community to to lose um people who have loved and lived here and have a strong sense of its history and and vested interest in this future so I would love to be able to um have us find a way to support um two family homes to be able to expand into a third uh for reasons to if you were able to provide um you know accessible apartment within your unit or uh even if it's just for the reason to be able to generate more income so that um aging Brook liners can uh be able to rise to the you know of uh of living thank you thank you the next speaker is Regina fry Regina I'm promoting you now you can start your video if you're comfortable and begin your three minutes and uh Tiffany um cath the siden had hand up uh good evening um just to be clear so I notic the town administrators first said that they're not public documents and then seemed to uh uh sway into saying they are let's be absolute all draft documents are public documents subject to the request and that is from the Secretary of State's office number one number two I understand the delicacy that the Town Administrator was attempting to portray I do understand it um but I also believe that the select board comments about we need our staff to be we we have the highest standards when we hire them the the vetting process is very significant with high standards and we need to use them it's very possible as the author of many warrant articles that a particular board didn't see something and they vote for reconsideration at a later date there it doesn't have to be absolute well we made this decision and therefore we maybe through Pride we don't want to change our mind maybe not through that but it's very common for this to happen and finally we're big boys and girls many of us have done this for many years and dealt with many many articles on zoning we can read a draft we can make our own decisions we go to the meetings we listen to the petitioners we listen to the opponents we listen to the boards and then we we ultimately get blamed for voting at town meeting it's always the select it's always the town meeting then ends up responsible for it so we need to be grown up about it I I agree with Paul and the others who feel that we need to see these things I understand this has been an extremely burdensome year for the staff in planning it's very difficult for them to get things out in what might be a more convenient timely way they're doing their job they're dealing with difficult circumstances difficult information let's all just deal with that it it it happens it's part of the process let's just accept that it happens and we can vote for reconsideration but please don't think that we are not like children not able to read these things and make our own judgments thank you thank you are there any other speakers in the room or online who wish to speak at this time Kathy you don't want to speak okay anyone on no one is indicating their desire to speak pardon me okay so yeah uh I'm close the hearing and um you move on to the next article there's no vote here um and we'll figure out what to do next time which will be actually Monday November 4th so steady up next we're on article nine um Bernard while we're waiting for for Kath to get set up to speak you know maybe to alleviate future additional discussion about this tonight perhaps we can put on the agenda in the future um you know the topic of of analysis and draft analysis and you know what's the best way to handle uh these types of this type of information um and we can add it to the agenda and have a conversation about it okay go good evening um thank you for having us and allowing us to speak I just want to say that I think Martha um wanted to speak to waren article 9 and I think she wasn't fully on the on the um sequence of what public hearing was happening that was in favor of Warren article 9 oh so you're not confused I she she she wanted to speak she was busy doing something else and and I understand how you could get confused um my name is Katha Sidman town meeting member Precinct 8 and a co-petitioner of Warren article 9 as many of you know Brookline in the Greater Boston area has an acute housing shortage we this war article because we believe Brookline has an important opportunity to add more homes in ways that support existing homeowners while also preserving neighborhood architectural character Warner article 9 only changes the use tables to allow a third home to be built by right in our two family districts yeah yeah other than that nothing else changes the size of the buildable envelope remains intact and the need for special permits and design review does not change so how can a current homeowner or new buyer at a third home they could convert an attic or a basement legalize and upgrade an undocumented apartment we configure the layout of the Interior if zoning allows they could expand the building or they could replace an existing two family structure with a new building that can house three families because most te districts most T District homes are owner occupied warn article 9 would benefit current homeowners by unlocking the option to add an apartment to rent for additional income or to sell as a condo to reduce their mortgage they could create an accessible unit so they could age in place or build an independent apartment for their adult children a home health aid an Annie or for their aging parents our community was also benefit by allowing small or less expensive units whenever an older building is renovated or replaced adding more diverse home types and sizes for every stage of life and because 94% of our tea districts are in the transit parking overlay district there would be more customers living near our commercial districts we don't believe this change will increase the likelihood that an older home might be replaced by a new one although this concern often looms large the actual number of tear Downs remains quite modest only 24 buildings in the tea districts have been replaced since 2016 or less than three per year one reason we are confident that Warren article 9 would not incentivize teardowns is that allowing three units per lot would instead unlock an important option that could help existing homeowners in Te districts remain their homes and while Warren article 9 would allow a developer to sell three units instead of two the size of the new building could not expand so the size of the individual units would shrink adding a third unit would also raise the total cost of the new building though the developer's resale profit would not substantially increase in addition section section 5.09 point2 of the zoning code passed in 1920 in 2022 specifies that when a full demolition permit is issued the developer must get both a special permit and design approval to rebuild these requirements enabled the planning board to vote unanimously for favorable action on Warren article 9 because they understood that this regulation permits three homes by right when a building remains largely intact but requires a special permit and design review when fully demoed and rebuilt permitting a third unit would not change the incentives to redevelop a lot in t districts nor make rebuilding permit easier to obtain but waren article 9 would make it easier for existing homeowners to retain their homes and allow any rebuild to enclose three smaller homes instead of the two very large units we have been getting so why should town meeting pass this warrant article now because our community and our country are in the midst of a housing crisis that is driving a housing costs threatening our diversity our vitality and our economic competitiveness as part of the Greater Boston area book Line's economic and social strength requires creative inventive people when people can't afford to live here they go elsewhere taking their creativity their Innovations and their incomes with them our community needs a variety of multi-prong policies to solve this crisis this zoning chain is not a New Concept in Brooklyn permitting a third home in Te districts was part of recommendation passed by town meeting in the fall of 2022 and continues to be part of planning department and planning board recommendations for current and future design standards develop for the tea districts like the housing crisis like I'm sorry like the climate crisis the housing crisis requires deploying diverse policy options in order to Fashion a sustainable future no single action could possibly be enough we must simultaneously be aggressive and patient aggressive in expanding housing options and patient in expecting results our once every 20year comprehensive planning process will reveal our community's vision and values for land use and lead to approaches that can be implemented over time but the urgency of the need and the time required for zoning changes to translate into new housing requires bookline to act now we are not required to fully resolve these crises today but neither are we free to abandon the task of solving them to summarize implementing this change now creates more opportunities for existing residents to retain their current home at customers near our commercial districts allows brookln to get more of what our community wants from the handful of older homes that are rebuilt and chips away at our regional housing shortage enabling new neighbors to call Brookline home I urge you to vote favorable action on more article 9 and allow three homes in ourt districts thank you and um we're not quite to um Charlie's gonna say some things and then we'll be done presenting thank you Dr Homer just so you know you have just under four minutes left terrific thank you and I don't have slides uh thank you very much Katha and thank you members of the select board my name is Charlie homer I'm a town meeting member in Precinct 8 and I'm also the chair appointed by you as of the advisory Council on public health I'm also a co-petitioner on this warrant article my precinct includes both multif family and two family districts both fellow town meeting member Alec leitz and I have spoken with then current and now former residents of our district who've had to leave Brookline because they could not afford housing and would have benefited from access to smaller rental units in our neighborhood we need more housing of all types in Brookline shifting to my role as chair of acph the health department has recently completed a community health assessment that assessment identified housing affordability as the greatest threat to the health and well-being of our community those analysis the under the analysis undertaken as part of the community health assessment also noted that seniors in our community have the highest proportion of poverty compared to other age groups acph knows that this warrant article will not result in dramatic increases in the number of housing units in town nor will it result inde deed restricted affordable units it will however result in a modest increase in the number of housing units in Brookline over time all professional housing analysts believe that it is the dramatic shortage of housing in our region and in our nation that underz the crisis in housing affordability we must take the small winds where we when and where we we can because the small winds will ultimately add up we also believe the primary impact of the zoning article that this zoning article proposes will be to enable homeowners many of them older to create new units within their two family buildings these new units will make it more likely that these homeowners will be able to age in place either by housing a caregiver or providing additional income to allow them to be able to pay for the costs of home ownership the new units created in these buildings as well as in any building that is rebuilt after review by the preservation commission or the planning board will be smaller given that the warant warrant article does not in change the allowable space the allowable footprint of the building I have a niece in Los Angeles who lives in this type of unit as she completes her obstetrics Residence at Cedar Sinai Hospital and without it she wouldn't be able to live anywhere near the hospital and I suspect the same will soon be true here in Brooklyn based on these considerations acph strongly recommends adoption of Warrant article 9 and voted to that effect 5 to Z at its meeting last night both for myself and for acph I urge the select board to recommend favorable action on Warr article n thank you very much yes go ahead no she came up to answer the question oh okay John I thought you coming up thought I would stand up for question I I actually had a question for for Charlie Homer yeah did and I can yeah come up to the mic if you want but um did did uh bcph have before it the planning Department's analysis of the article um I certainly had the planning Department's analysis of the VAR of the article and I also heard and listened to the planning board discussion uh and I think you'll hear from Steve hekken uh about the planning board's discussion um of that I and I represented both to the acph both what the planning department said in outline and the planning board's conclusion so uh I'm sorry I I I said I said ACP I mean I said bcph I should have said acph so I apologize but but I did not share the document itself from the planning uh from the planning so none of the other members of the board had it or the advisory Council excuse me the advisory Council were not I did not provide them no no they had the opportunity to have reviewed that again as a member of the public but all right thank you yep uh uh Paul yep uh first uh Katherine Charlie um and Michael uh you know I appreciate we talk a lot we spent a lot of time on the phone we spent a lot of time together during uh I have nothing but respect for you I know where this is coming from I understand all the principled reasons why you're bringing it Forward um a few nights ago uh actually Jonathan Klein sent me a picture uh I think yesterday or last night uh and it's a picture of Kathy U standing next to me standing next to Charlie standing next to Michael uh standing next to Linda pelky and we were there at the Brookline uh Community Development Corporation Deb Brown's uh group and they gave us an award and that award was for Community engagement um around the NBTA communities act but it was centered on uh Community engagement which is has always been Deb's thing like she know talks about Community engagement um and so my I'll ask the similar question to what I and by the way I'm very proud to have done that with you and I want to continue to do that with you I really appreciate it um the the question I had asked Chi-Chi um and I'll ask a similar question Katha so when we did the the Harvard Street there was tremendous amount of information people knew what was going to happen on their street was going to happen on their block what was going to happen next to the building uh the building next to them um by Precinct every precin town meeting member knew essenti I won't say but most of them that were paying attention knew what was going going on um I I don't have a sense that we have that similar awareness and transparency right now on this article um I have no idea how many Parcels we're talking about being impacted I don't know the streets that they're going to be impacted on I don't know the precincts that they're going to be impacted on um and I I don't feel confident that the community actually has an awareness about what the that this is coming um and and so that's that's my my my primary concern is everything that I've said about 78 n and as you know I've actually probably against the the support of my peers has have suggested that we refer a 72 and there's a simple reason for that because I'm looking at the the extent and the the the how broad these changes are and the the level of impact that they can have and a and without any understanding of connectivity to them other than solving the housing crisis I appreciate that that's a common theme Here although I'm not sure seven solves the housing crisis I think you called it down zoning um do we have a sense of what the magnitude Is Here Charlie said it's only going to be a few um you know would actually result in this a mod a modest number of units do do you have a sense of what streets they are what precincts are being impacted and how many Parcels well um if you want to let Mike Rubenstein speak now he will give you that information I know Michael has presented before saying he's done an analysis about how many tears have actually happened I saw that presentation he also he also has the numbers of units in the precincts and he has a breakdown of home ownership I have a breakdown of slide with that yeah but let me address you understand sort of General context okay so since comp planning H was passed a town meeting there have been a number of zoning articles one there were three in 2022 that I know of there were there have been a number of articles in the last couple of years not the mbtca which have gone through exactly the same process nobody questioned it there was a demo Del demolition delay articles there were changes in the zoning code there were other warn articles that did not have this anything like the level of public engagement that the mbtca did we would we we every time we have a zoning article in general it goes through this kind of Warrant article review then it goes before town meeting which is 255 representatives of the town so there's quite a bit of just general public engagement people who were concerned come to these kinds of presentations and these kinds of meetings so I think that the MBTA is an outlier not the common state of things okay so that's the first piece it's an interesting perspective thank you it's true that's the first piece the second piece is as you know as we've discussed we have a slightly different sense of how the comprehensive planning process works and how it engages people um my sense of the comprehensive planning process is that it is a way to bring the Community together with public engagement that talks about and develops from the community what their vision and values are that will then guide their land use it is not a survey it is not a set of small meetings it is a much broader ADV bringing together of the community when Somerville did it they had meetings of groups of people from advocacy groups to just Community or uh Community meetings that had people with whiteboards creating visual notes so when people said I like this or I don't like that they could they had a visual representation of their conversation and they all took that home with them they were agents in the making of this of this um vision and if which is very different from a survey it's not like you're you don't need the survey and it's not like you don't need the spreadsheets and the final analysis but so what I'm trying to say is that the this kind of change in our zoning now is important to address the housing crisis it is a modest change it's a simple change when you start to think of the broader Community creating a vision for itself that's not going to result for so many years now could be two could be five before the zoning actually changes and it's not going to be till after that that we begin to that if we wait we will begin to address the housing crisis so I think that there's a need now to do continue to do our normal process of addressing the housing crisis and change and the needs of the community now while the planning the comprehensive planning process is going on and I know that's in your opinion and I Mike so uh two things I two things I would say one is the comprehensive plan is not going to produce zoning change it may be used as the basis for zoning change in the future sure um and when the comprehensive plan article came to town meeting there was a great deal of discussion back and forth about who would support it and so forth and ultimately it received broad support on the specific basis that continued that town meeting would continue to be able to look at zoning changes that were not as broad as you would expect out of a comprehensive plan but small adjustments this is one of those small adjustments you may or may not look like or be H be satisfied with the information you have about it but to say that all of these things need to wait starting now for the comprehensive plan to be uh to be completed and for then the comprehensive plan to be analyed for zoning change goes against the agreement that was made uh at town meeting when the uh between factions at town meeting when the comprehensive plan was Mike you do know that I negoti app the the the the compromise on the article that passed 219 to2 the faction use the word factions I don't think it was factions it was various points of view um and it the language was not what you just said the language actually was very specific and said existing studies that are in Flight it didn't say any zoning change in the in in the future uh you know that's not what it said it said ex it would not stop existing studies that were in flight and I think I've been really clear that um there's a whole bunch of things on the current slate of of zoning articles that I support and don't think that they should be referred um the Adu article which is a mandate by the state that we become compliant we should certainly make sure we're supportive of that there's other zoning changes the the second unit I don't think that that should automatically go to the comprehensive plan steering committee I I don't know what what the subject matter would actually help the comprehensive plan of eight I think it's eight I think it's eight not eight no no no I think it's a a 14 maybe I 14 14 um you know when when eventually you bring an article forward for the Chestnut Hill uh commercial District yeah of course that would be brought forward but I I will ask you this imagine if someone decided they didn't like what you're doing and they're going to bring their own article and gather support uh and bring it to town meeting as the leader of that effort you might go hm you can do that but it's not preferable same with Bernard with the with uh you know the fiser hill study of of the campus up there what if someone decides that you know what I don't want to wait I'm not waiting for that stinking thing I'm going to bring an article and make a pool out of it and maybe a passes town meeting this you know we have to have some semblance of agreement about how we're going to move forward with stuff um I have not and people have quoted me saying Warren doesn't want any Z that's absolutely the furthest thing from the truth um I've actually took a principled stand which says I believe that for things that are broad-based including what uh Katha and others have characterized as down zoning in article seven um and up zoning which is would be eight and nine that those should wait until we're until we get through the process of the comprehensive plan with Comprehensive input from the community I mean that it's a principal position I'm not picking winners or losers I'm saying broad things uh we should put tap the breaks um and let the committee and the money that we're spending that we appointed would play its way out okay so let's uh let's open up the public hearing if anyone in the public would like to um speak yes we had several speakers sign up in advance um Michael Rubenstein oh I had a slide deck oh that's right thank you get the down to advance thank you very much for this opportunity to speak um my name is Michael Rubenstein I'm a town meeting member in Precinct 13 um I've submitted written comments with details regarding the data sources and meth methodology for this presentation uh here I will focus on Five Points um the first point is that while warrant article 9 will not increase the rate of tear Downs for reasons that have already been mentioned um what is the rate of tear downs and rebuilds in the t-zones so you can see from this chart um this slide shows the number of certificates of occupancy issued per year that have followed full tear Downs uh in the last nine years there have been an average of about three tear downs and rebuilds per year so this table describes the 1,711 residential Parcels in the te districts that could be increased to three dwelling units almost half of the parcels are single family buildings 1/5 are 2unit condos and onethird are two family buildings thus uh using these two pieces of data the rate of residential tear downs and rebuilds in the te districts over the last nine years is modest 0.16% of parcels per year to put this another way it would take 642 years at this rate to replace all of these Parcels or to put it another way after about 300 years you replace about half okay second um what is the risk of tear downs and rebuilds on buildings deemed significant by the preservation commission uh in the last four years there were 15 demolition delays of residential buildings in t districts none zero of those demolition delays have resulted in tear downs and rebuilds of residential buildings thus the preservation commission processes for pres preventing demolitions of significant buildings now are having their desired effect third what is the typical size of parcels that would be affected and thus what could the maximum size of units be given the allowed f for a two or three family buildings the T5 Parcels have a 5,000 square foot minimum lot size and the T6 parcel you have 30 seconds have a 6,000 foot minimum lot size um and as you can see typical Lots in each of these types cluster around the two or three family minimum lot sizes fourth how many owner occupied homes could be affected by warrant article 9 so that their owners could remain in their homes and agent place as you can see the significant majority of lots are owner occupied especially the single family zones I would point out that the uh planning department memo Focus that concludes your time um this reinforces the modest rate of changes that would be permitted by warrant article 9 um I'll make one final point in my last set of slides but quick instead we like to thank you for considering this data and I will urge you to recommend favorable action on more article nine thank you thank you the next speaker is Linda pelky Linda Linda I'm promoting you now Linda you should be able to start your video and begin your three minutes Linda will come back to you uh the next speaker is Tracy Burns Tracy I'm promoting you now Tracy you should be able to start your video and begin your three minutes okay you you can hear me yes okay great thank you um good evening my name is Tracy Burns and um I'm gonna keep this short um I live on Beal Street in a two family house which is a T5 District I've lived and rented in this house since 2008 um I moved here with my children when they were in kindergarten and fourth grade and they're now 21 and 25 which means I've rented in this house for 16 years for many years my landlords were in the upstairs unit and my two children and I were in the downstairs unit and I've always wanted to buy an affordable house in this neighborhood since I've moved here I'm on my second term as a town meeting member I'm the co-coordinator of mothers out front and I'm involved in various other Town activities I'm firmly planted in this community and I would really like to be a homeowner in this community my landlords purchased the house in 1981 for $139,000 and according to Zillow this house is now worth $2.5 million that's a lot of money this summer my lease terminates and my landlords will put the house on the market it's my dream that I buy this house but the only way I can afford it is if we use the third floor as an income generator the chance to buy this house will only come up once if I don't buy it from the landlords it'll get bought by a developer get gut renovated and get resold as two condos which will once again be Way Beyond my financial reach I firmly support Warren article 9 and I cannot wait for this idea to be part of the comprehensive plan I literally can't wait thank you thank you the next speaker is Gary schiffman hi uh Gary schiffman town meeting member for Precinct n9ine I'm speaking in support of Warren article 9 um I live on Verndale Street uh on Brook lines border with Alon my wife Marian and I are on the verge of purchasing half of the two family house we currently live in her brother Carl will buy the other half of the house which the five siblings inherited last year when their mother died Maran and I moved to Verndale street from San Diego in 2002 with our two young children we displaced the tenants at that time one of them was a Brookline teacher lovely person that it turns out was always part of my in-law's plan the second apartment in their two family home generated income and eventually became their daughter's my wife's home that plan allowed them to afford Brookline in the first place and then to age in place there the plan worked Grandma and Grandpa poo and gong gong to my kids walked our children from F frr that dvo every day after school in turn Marian and Carl my wife and my brother-in-law who lived upstairs with his parents looked after them as they aged warrant article 9 allows us to do Maran and I can do exactly what her parents did warrant article 9 would allow us to convert the third floor of our home into a legal apartment that in turn will help us to pay the bills and to age in place we have two children who both live and rent in the Bost Boston area my older daughter is 28 works at toughs is married to a lawyer lives in a very small one-bedroom in Lynn my younger daughter is 24 lives with three roommates in an apartment in Somerville both attended and graduated from Brooklyn schools we believe that either one of them would make an excellent tenant for us they already know the deal having seen it enacted the old folks help you for as long as they can and then you help them when they get old in the end you're left with a pretty nice place to live worked out for me though it's vac now our third floor is definitely inhabitable I know that because it was in fact inhabited for many years as an extra not quite legal rental apartment please don't tell anyone all of the offenders are now deceased that's how workingclass people managed to pay the bills in the 1970s on Verndale Street let's just say the Verndale Street neighbors were not surprised by the arrangement which many of them had as well my wife and I are both Educators and we have earned far more money during our working lives than Marian's parents ever did but could never dream of affording the kind of house that they bought condos and two family houses on Verndale street now sell for upwards of $2 million we couldn't afford that and our two children can't afford it but Warren article 9 does for us exactly what our recent Adu Bill did for single family homes for middleclass Brook liners who live in s districts it allow it would allow us to legalize and renovate our property in a way that allows us to age in place like everyone on burndale Street might in-laws receive frequent inquiries about their house from Realtors we'll be getting them soon they weren't interested and we're not interested either we want to stay and we want our kids to say after us that concludes your time selling out is an option we take only if we have to and only reluctantly instead please let this agent place come thank you thank you the next speaker is Steve hiken that's uh thanks again for having me um I just want to cover a couple of more General topics I think that Paul Warren and Mike Simon are both right when they're talking about the comprehensive plan versus ongoing zoning Paul's right in saying that the specific language did say that ongoing zoning issues uh should continue it doesn't say nothing else shall be done that's where I I think Mr sammon is right and saying we should not be prohibited from doing any other strategic planning dealing with issues that that are in front of us and that need action prior to the next 3 to 5 year period of conducting the comprehensive plan and then whatever zoning comes out of that and I think that all of these zoning articles that are before you are well below the level of a comprehensive plan comp I just looked at the previous comprehensive plan it deals with broad goals and Visions it deals with land use in a very general way land use and housing it deals with our commercial districts open space and Recreation Transportation those are the kinds of things that the comprehensive plan needs to look at and update from something that actually started in 2002 in the meantime we have a lot of other things to do and and just on one other topic um the uh the unfortunate sort of conflict between a couple of uh draft planning board reports and the planning board's decisions we talked about that came up with respect to article seven and now article nine I don't have it in front of me but I I remember being concerned when I saw what I think was labeled a draft planning board report for Warren article 99 and we came up with a different decision I think that included some data that I thought was frankly uh misguided you may have it in front of you I don't but I remember specifically that it made the point that Warren article 9 was going to result in it wasn't going to result in smaller units it would just as well result in larger units and it used as specific examples three or four projects or in M districts with sites that were 6 7 8 9,000 square fet and yes we got three three ,000 foot units on a 9,000 foot lot in an M District I don't think that was relevant to the kinds of properties that waren article 9 is intended to deal with so in summary you already know the planning board supports Warren article 9 uh one additional bit of data going back to this very interesting uh component of the 2016 Town warrant which dealt with there was a moderators committee that looked at F and how we Define it and it did the study which gave us this data that tell tells us that in the you have 30 seconds T5 and T6 zones projects properties are usually only about half of the allowed F which is why developers want to build larger ones uh it turns out that in our in this same report as a footnote there are already in the T5 zones 92 three family or larger properties and an additional 15 in T6 this is from you know 2016 nobody sees them these aren't creating a a sort of a in these districts with these larger multi family units so thank you that's that's the planning board's position and thank you Linda pelky I'm coming back to you you've been promoted if you would like to start your video and begin your three minutes you can do so now okay we'll come back to her yep the next speaker is Brian lad Brian I'm promoting you now good evening I'm Brian lad town meeting member Precinct 13 I'm also a board member of Brookline for everyone but I speak for myself um I I find this proposal appealing I think if you like the idea of adus this should have some appeal for you and extending that to to two family districts but of course it's more than that and so where developers are concerned the incentives don't really change very much from what they are now but they create this possibility of three units instead of two more housing um but what I want to focus on mainly is the the idea of referring to comp planning it seems to me that what we're doing here is we're taking this proposal that proposal this proposal handing the comp plan committee a grab bag and say here you build something out of this and that seems to me exactly back backward in terms of what comp planning should be doing it should be working from from the big things and not that on the other hand if what we're doing here is sort of quietly surreptitiously killing these proposals I don't think that's an appropriate way to do it either I think this should go to town meeting town meeting should have the opportunity to ask is the housing crisis sufficiently pressing that we need to act and is this a good way to act about it and and I think the answer is yes but above all I think County meetings should have the the right to choose about this thank you thank you is there anyone else in the room who wishes to speak on warrant article 9 is there anyone online who wishes to speak on this warrant article if so please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature at this time okay my hand is raised I don't know why I'm not being called on sorry Linda I've actually called on on you twice but um you can go ahead and begin your three minutes yeah I like I said I'm sorry I'm in between two meetings um yeah my name is Linda Olen pelky town meeting member Precinct 17 and um I will tell you that the um advisory committee just voted to refer article n to the comprehensive plan steering committee um you know I think that the way that this has been sold to us is is not accurate that it will be adding a unit within an existing building and there are no protections for that and as we did in the tnh we took steps to mitigate the threat of Demolition and to assure that if a um project got redeveloped it would be more in keeping with the neighborhood um in terms of its massing and scale and there are a lot of issues that were raised in the subcommittee on this warn article concerns about what the added density would mean in terms of impacts in neighborhoods in terms of bringing more cars more trash more trash toter and activity and the fact that we have not discussed this at all with the people living in the T districts and I just think that as far as a zoning proposal itself it needs a great deal of refinement before we could be assured that we're not going to be displacing um currently existing affordable rentals into families that we're not going to be encouraging demolitions because the way that it is now there's no Assurance for getting smaller units and it will actually incentivize demolitions so um I ask that the select board vote to refer to the comp plan thank you thank you there's no one else raising their hand to speak at this time time okay thank you we'll close the hearing and uh unless anyone on the cboard has something they really really need to say I really really really need to say two things go to the next War article go ahead I'll keep I'll keep it brief first I appreciate Ryan lad's comments um for those who know me um I am uh 100% committed to public engagement and transparency and government um I don't do anything sneaky to kill deals or kill articles that's so I I want I want to reply to that um but I do want to I want to just highlight a couple of things in and I realize this was this is article 9 draft report uh from the planning board it's not doesn't have the planning board's thinking at all in it and I'm looking forward to to the report so it really is the the the analysis from just staff our professional staff um and there's two things that I just want to point out one is um it says there's no evidence that small units would be created um and there's an in-depth analysis as to why um which is you know something that's really important because small units are more affordable large units are really expensive and then and then the second point it maybe in line with what um Linda pelky just said there's a whole section in here that demolitions will increase there a segment in this analysis it says many tea District Parcels have a low utilization rate of the maximum allowed floor area ratio um for example below is data just for the T5 District if the Delta between the existing floor area ratio and the fully realized floor area ratio is great then there is little incentive for adaptive reuse by increasing the development potential to add units without incentivizing smaller units not adaptive reuse or existing of existing structures this proposed zoning change risk replacing housing stock with more expensive housing units now look that's an unfed unfiltered analysis it may be wrong and I believe that perhaps members of the planning board would dis disagree with that analysis but that was analysis I don't know who wrote it out of our planning department but someone wrote it um and I think that it's something that should be considered so okay so you've prompted Kath aidman to come and continue this discussion and and I have to let her because she's a petitioner I appreciate that thank you so much um I want to say two things the first one is that given that that's not part of the conversation and the sort of the public conversation it's very difficult to um we have first of all what I think Steve said is that the analysis that it wouldn't produce smaller units is based on M districts it is not based on T District um lots and if you look at the T districts I think if you look at Michael's um analysis of the where the majority of of lots sizes are in the T districts you will find that they are significantly smaller than those M District Lots so to say that they would not produce smaller units they will be smaller than what would have been there if there are only two is number one and number two they will be smaller than what is listed there in M District lots that are 9 9,000 square feet so that's the first piece the second piece is that um if you say that there have been no full tear Downs After demolition delays in since 2021 um that were significant buildings and there have only been three about three per year over the last eight years you're not going to get a lot of tear Downs it's the that the F problem does not change the value of the lot and the building that you take down the value of the lot and the money you will make is not going to change whether you have three units or two I think that's pretty clear so you dis so you're just you're disagreeing with our professional staff yes sir I am and I will add the last thing I wanted to say was that um um this is something that Steve gave do you want to just talk about Steve he had to leave okay or he's not here anyway um so this is from the housing production plan um and it basically says one of the things we should be doing is provide incentives for adding units to historic houses and tnf districts instead of demolishing them and building new structures that went through an awful lot of public hearings to get to the housing production plan so I think that yes we are disagreeing with the planning department okay clearly thank you thank you so um unless there are any other comments I won't take any we'll move on to war article 10 I had a brilliant comment but go ahead oh I had an even better one we we'll wait till next week when we vote on this right so who's um oh good good I see Maria good evening Maria mlli senior planner in the planning Department's regulatory division uh the planning department proposes amendments to article 11 this is the Harvard Street form Bay zones of the zoning bylaw adopted by Fall 2023 town meeting and it would expand the list of allowed exterior materials as well as update the use table consistent with the attorney general's decision um at the quick I just want to give you some votes the planning board uh voted to support or favor favorable action as as did full advisory uh I don't have a presentation I'm just going to give you a quick overview if you do want to look at any language I'll certainly pull up the the warrant article but specifically uh the changes for chapter 11-4 which deals with architectural standards and exterior materials this was something that the planning board did want to spend more time with in 2023 and knew that they would have to you know return to that there just wasn't enough time to really expand that list um I did consult with two practicing Architects on the planning board Andrea brew and Matt hayatt who have a range of experience with institutional um development as well as multif family commercial and Retail and we worked within a framework respecting the aesthetic priorities that the community and they were were hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of people who did go through the community engagement process for Harvard Street established for that District uh we needed to make more room for exterior materials that would allow for more affordable uh projects as well as sustainable ones especially with a very rigorous stretch code uh that's in place uh and the edits reflect just for example instead of just natural stone it also allows cast stone or simulated Stone which would be a good quality because it's a lighter material doesn't require you know um a very specialized trades person to install it it's also more affordable but from the street looks looks beautiful um wood um hard wood we qualify not just wood but hardwood um as well as composite and engineered wood again these don't deteriorate or rot and they also provide cost-effective Alternatives um and the last thing the Attorney General's decision specified in the table that the do uses so this is under Mass General law 40a Section 3 there are uses known as educational nonprofit educational uses as well as child care facilities we are not allowed to specify a requirement of a special permit or that they're not uh not allowed so we have to allow them in all districts and we needed to update that that table and um that really wraps up um the summary of changes again I can pull up the language if you like to look at anything in particular thank you any questions from the select board uh Paul yep I have one Maria thank you uh and I appreciate that um when we were doing the Harvard Street uh zoning articles that um you were pretty consistent in saying we may need to come back and make some changes so I I I appreciate um that that you did that um you know it's this actually has to do with the next article but I'm just trying to understand because they're both kind of going after the same thing um why the things that are proposed in article 11 why aren't they coming from planning as part of article 10 are they that much different I'm just there's materials there's massing um I have to admit I'm a little confused and I know Steve will get to this at some point but why why why aren't article 11's Provisions included in your article 10 so form based zoning um the beauty of of form based zoning is that you balance predictability with flexibility so we like to have specific ranges we like to have things that are concrete so that a developers understand how to plan their projects and so forth so as you can see the amendments to the exterior materials we just had to expand that I I believe article 11 is more of a you know uh more of a blanket so it it there are terms that are maybe substantially consistent um in form based zoning we like to be specific we like to provide a range so if you're going to ow a reduction in the setback we like to say what is that range is it is it a certain percentage is it a certain number of feet and as always I respect the planning board and I understand their frustration and I am certainly willing to work continue working with the planning board wherever there are those pinch points um I think we can come up with some specific parameters to give them the latitude that they need uh to ensure that people are not restrictive restricted from doing a perfectly fine project that complies with the aesthetic priorities and and other Town goals that the community has for Harvard Street I hope that was clear I think you I think you answered my question thanks Maria so uh since article 10 and 11 are relatively um similar to each other we uh they're not they're not okay never mind okay hope we could do joint thought too no okay so um let's open up public hearing me yes there are no speakers who signed up in advance for this public hearing is there anyone in the room who wishes to speak on this matter anyone who wishes to speak on the matter online please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature Steve hiken Steve hiken would like to speak um the brief point i' just like to make with respect to article 10 and how it relates to article 11 is that article 11 is an attempt to avoid having articles like article 10 come before all these committees the advisory committee the planning board the select board and then go to town meeting for two-thirds vote to decide whether we should be allowed to have aluminum windows on Harvard Street when they're permitted anywhere else in town because that's one of the changes that's in war article 10 and that's only one of a couple of material changes and there are lots of other materials that still aren't included so or ar 11 is an attempt to sort of provide a little bit more leeway and I'll be specific when that article comes up instead of having to do another article 10 every year going into the future as we find more flaws with the specifics of the form based code okay flaws or opportunities okay um Tiffany any other no no one is indicating their desire to speak online okay I'll close the hearing uh any further discussion from the select board now you can speak nope I'm good no okay I I'd just like to say I welcome welcome this article uh and I uh I think loosening the uh very very tight uh requirements on materials was a a mechanism for getting um getting the uh the original uh zoning uh NBTA Community act zoning through but uh I do think that it was too restrictive and this is a good move in the right direction okay so let's move on to Warren article 11 um that you're your presentation I did actually this will kill this will kill two birds with one stone because I have a presentation for Warrant article 11 it's a PowerPoint show and a few additional slides that was actually prepared for Warrant article 10 CS okay okay so um this presentation was prepared by um as Maria said uh the staff of the planning department with the assistance of two members of the planning board Matt hayatt and Andrea Brew who are currently mid-career practicing Architects I'm a end of career architect and urban designer and planner with 40 years of experience designing these kinds of multif family buildings and I know know a lot about this kind of design my firm is is doing the uh the new project for Hebrew Senior Life on Center Street uh new fully affordable senior project and uh Matt hayatt actually my colleague on the pl actually put this together and the purpose of this was initially to show you the kinds of buildings that are using materials which are not permitted under the current form-based code and hence or in article 10 uh allows some additional materials to be used and gets rid of some uh clearly problematic requirements so this building you're looking at something that uh is using aluminum windows which article 10 will now allow for but also uh in the current form based code my notes here um section 11 and War article 11 is only asking for the planning board to provide relief from specific requirements of section four of the form based code the facade composition materials and massing doesn't ask for relief from things like setback and all those major issues which were a result of a lot of community participation I I I must say I would find it hard to believe that the level of detail in this section of the Brookline form-based code ever came up in discussion with the community and I've also looked at a number of other form-based codes done by this consultant and they've done a lot of them and I haven't seen one that has this level of detail they have a couple of pages that are similar you know they have these neighborhood descriptions like Main Street uh the Main Street commercial there's three or four different neighborhood types and for each of those types there are three or four pages of dimensional criteria I'm not talking about that I'm only talking about massing materials uh and symmetry Etc so this building uh aside from the fact that it has aluminum windows it doesn't meet section 11 7.4.4 tripartite facades which requires that base materials that's the first story shall be distinct from the primary materials of the upper story so this building the base material is Brick the upper material is also brick that's not permitted in the form base code we can't give them we have you have to come back you have to change something okay next slide well can I ask you a quick question and is it okay this is important could you go back one slides yeah and so you're saying these buildings aren't necessarily even in brookly no I no I understand that but you're saying this this would not be allowed because you the Bas material upper floors can't be the same as the first floor material the material can't be the same when they talk about base they were talking about not just that little bit of stone at the bottom they're talking about the whole first floor is their base okay so that's not permitted how did that happen uh look at the bays in this building and I I didn't really have to look any further in my house I'll show you those in a minute uh these are chamford bays so and I know that you've probably gotten a sort of a a message from Linda OLS and pelky as to why you should refer this if not vote no action she points out that there are there are leeway and not everything is is fixed and she you know there is the section on Bay section 11.4.1 n which for chamford Bays which is what these are the depth of the bay is 3 feet maximum and the width is 10 ft maximum now I would venture to say that the width of those Bays is more than 10 ft and my own house I'll show you a picture later if you've ever seen me on Zoom if you look behind me I'm in my Den that bay on the outside is 14 feet wide and it's also 4 feet deep and the form base code limits a champer bay to be 3 feet deep so this would not be permitted okay can I so can I ask as you go so and this is this is really help I'm I'm really glad that you added pictures I appreciate it so a scenario let's say that you have the discretion right to to figure out the bay that's what we're asking for and that's I understand that and I've sat through a few a few meetings where you know you've you've uh Tangled with a a certain attorney in town because we're going round and round on what what should be acceptable and what's not H you know the having the dimensions of the bay defined in the form based Cod code does add some level of predictability as Maria mentioned but you know when is it to the point where you're kind of painting with a blank canvas and it's difficult for The Architects that are coming before us to present us with something that is predictable well frankly I think that the all the criteria in this code not to mention the the review process at the end are an absolute uh mindfield of problems awaiting anybody trying to design a building never mind get it approved uh under this new code and again as I said most of the specific criteria in this section four that I'm referring to don't appear in any other form based code that I've seen okay I don't know how it got this far and this deep in in Brookline but it did so this building okay this was here for other materials nothing in particular here um another one here where the building on the component on the right brick on the Base Brick above can't do that um here's a building where there are standards for projections and recesses where in that is a facade modulation section 11.4.1 16 projections and recesses must be at least 2 feet deep you see all these um little these little sort of setbacks here that's maybe six inches can't do that in under our code it would have to be at least 2 feet and lots of designers use a little bit of change of surface and change of material to create some modulation but not everybody has the you know to to sort of set this back two feet loses a lot of space if if you're trying to build to a property line I'm only saying this from 40 years as an architect and as a fellow of the American Institute of Architects about you know 2% of all Architects get that designation by their peers and now I'm I'm kind of waving it at you so here's another building um 2% this is section 11.4.1 15 facade compositions it talks about having vertical alignment and it says that uh elements of a building must align vertically from the top to the bottom so these windows do not align vertically now some people don't like this I'll have to admit don't like but this is what you're seeing in a lot of contemporary architecture this is not permitted under our form base code the windows all have to line up from top to bottom are we allowed to use our own aesthetic sense in saying uh I don't like that oh yeah we we've seen buildings and the plent you know we we can't we're not designing buildings for people we're reacting to buildings and you know people have different opinions and I don't know how others feel I know some people don't trust the planning board as far as they could throw us you know one by one um but we feel like we've done a good job and some of us like me have been on the board 20 years and you know have done this as well as having a day job um this I think is creating innumerable problems here's a building that uh has some balconies that don't have any supporting brackets well that's one of the things that Warren article 10 took out the current form base code requires that any balcony that projects from a building has to have brackets underneath it even though structurally there's no need for them it's kind of a classical architecture detail and not only that they have to be no more than six feet apart so this building there's no brackets under the balcony there's even an illustration in the form base code self that's intending to show a canopy over an entry and you see the rest of the building has a bunch of balconies sticking out there's no brackets under them but it says it's only illustrative it's not it's not what's in the code um here's another example of a building where there are many setbacks and recesses many of which are not at least two feet deep we couldn't allow some of these things like this the way this is working around the corner as near as I can tell here's a building this is a building in Brookline this uh this Bay here on the right if you can see where cursor is going I'm not really that bay that projection is not two feet it's less it might be a foot and a half that's a kind of a common so they would have to push it out further or come back this is the kind of thing that you know that when I saw this code there nothing particularly relevant here except the base and the top are Al all brick and finally here's Tata uh or you know this is um one of our 4bs um again we the these Bays I don't think are two feet these projections on the side so um that's I think that's the last of these things is is there a way you can uh I have those other images I'm gonna pull them up here okay and I'm about done but you know um and I know the uh advisory committee is also talking about this right now so this is my own house okay I didn't have to go any further than my own house and I live I'm not in the Main Street Harvard Street District but I'm kind of around the corner from the Harvard Street neighborhood Zone which has a couple of other large you know late 19th century houses this is a rectangular Bay on my house which is 16 feet wide I measured it rectangular Bays Square bays are only allowed to be 9 feet wide maximum so this is almost twice as wide as as one would be allowed to design it um there's another one one more there's two more so if you've ever seen me on Zoom you're looking at this uh this my my desk is like in front of me I'm i' Le I've turned around this is the bay inside my my man cave as I like to call it and uh last picture and this is that same Bay from the outside I'm up on the second floor there so this Bay is 14 feet wide and four feet deep but this is a chamford bay like one I showed you in in the earlier presentation chamford bays are only allowed to be um and this is section 4.09 um 10 feet maximum wide this is 14 feet it's awful and only three feet deep this is four feet deep impermissible so that's why I am asking that you approve War article 11 to give the planning board some judgment leeway in projects that don't absolutely meet all of these incredibly detailed standards in section four of the foreign base code okay quick Mike so I I have um I abs understand what you're trying to do and I have one overriding concern um the purpose of Zone based planning is to allow uh someone to build something by right and to know what they can build um and as soon as you introduce planning board discretion you undermine that and I wonder if you can comment on that I think what I'm proposing is a way to allow things to happen without being thwarted by the details of this code in section four right but is there some way to write it so that you it isn't a matter of discretion you don't have to Grant a permit that it's it's uh you you construct a broad enough set of criteria within the Zone form based zoning uh bylaw that you you it that people do indeed know that they can build something by right I mean as soon as you start introducing specific dimensional standards for things as detailed as the depth of a Bay or the width of a of a chamfered bay right um you're getting into trouble I mean it doesn't apply anywhere else in town same thing with Windows in fact I forgot to mention the windows in my house are uh aluminum clad wood and they were also not allowed in the form I just put those windows I spent like $50,000 putting those windows into my house a few years ago excellent Windows uh you know insulated Etc low eass but uh that aluminum clad wood window that was one of the things that was added in war Artic n this year because it wasn't allowed in the initial form based code and so there just any number I mean my my alternative is to go through the form based code line by line and change you know innumerable details I I gave uh the planning staff like a four-page single spaced memo with all of the issues that I saw in that code but by that point it was too late to do anything about it uh the the one thing uh one thing that they did do I'll just give you one more example uh one thing that totally made my hair stand on end which was removed literally you know from the draft of which everything else is as you see it today but there was one brief section 11 section 11.4.3 facade proportion and symmetry at a little section it says facade proportion standards the height and width I'm just reading from the earlier draft of the code the height and width of a rectangle inscribing all corners of the main body's front elevation shall be related by one of the following ratios within a 2% margin a a ratio of two whole numbers each less than or equal to 9 EG 3:5 or 7:4 B a ratio of one to the square < TK of two in parentheses that it's equals 1 to 1.414 or C the golden ratio right right right 1 to 1.618 right and then it goes on to sort of conclude division established for the purpose of demonstrating proportionality do not need to be related to Vertical divisions required in section 11.4.1 15 when I saw that my my hair stood on it I mean that is some of the most absurd attempts to regulate proportion that I have I could not literally could not believe it and I believe I remember when Steve you and I can well our hair cannot stand on it okay I had hair back man all right I just have a question similar to Mike's uh clearly you feel that some of these uh ranges are not um generous enough and so to the extent that this could be redrafted in a way to allow for a broader range could that be another approach rather than just leaving it sort of loose at planning board discretion well it's not all that loose it says if we believe that the project substantially meets the I don't have the exact langu here yeah substantially meets the somebody can read it uh and and we can provide and and we do this in a public hearing so people can say oh no that's you can't do that and we can provide specifics as to why you know we're allowing a change we're not trying to make it harder we're trying to make it easier and and frankly I think these overall standards especially the four-story height are are going to make it very unlikely that people are going to be charging forward to redevelop properties on arbitary I mean I know the Citizens Bank lot with the big parking lot there was a proposed 40b that's been withdrawn there aren't too many other there's the gas station uh there's Walgreens there not a whole lot of properties that I think are going to be subject to you know intense developer interest and I think uh even though this warrant article allows what was now that we we've eliminated F on Harvard Street which was largely an FB one kind of like our T5 districts the way the envelope is defined for old urbanists like me that translates to an actual F of about three and a half so I'm happy with that but because the height limit is four stories that is not what a multif family uh mixed income and mixed use developers are wanting to build these days they need to build that fifth Story okay I want to open up the hearing but so go I just wanted to ask you had said something first of all I you know be it would be great to be able to capture because not everybody's a two-center frankly with your experience of of right no so I mean that and and to capture it into our code in such a way that it stands the test of time of you know not having you on the board or someone of of your caliber so I think there's there's a challenge there but you raised something about the height does what you're proposing change the height no it does doesn't deal with any of those de things like lot setbacks all those things that are important to people I'd like to change it but that's not but you can't but your proposal isn't going over a five story Bill refers to section four it's the aade messing and in materials can okay Mike can I can read the um substitutions or modifications that are substantially consistent with the massing facade articulation and Architectural elements described in chapter 11-4 may be F may be allowed by the planning board following a public hearing with a specific list of findings that note elements that diverge from the massing facade facade articulation and Architectural elements and why the overall design is substantially consistent with the code nothing about height nothing about setback nothing of that sort okay so let's open up the public hearing yes Linda pelky I'm promoting you now Linda you can start your video and begin your three minutes thank you um Linda olssen pelky town meeting member of Precinct 17 member of advisory committee uh I will let you guys know that the advisory committee voted no action on this warrant article and I think that um Steve's impassioned plea tells us that Architects really don't like form Bas Zing very much um and this is a really big change and the planning board has been operating the way they've been operating for quite a long while and they are rightfully proud of their work however this was a decision by the town to embrace form based zoning because of its predictability and this is something that town meeting overwhelmingly felt comfortable in voting for for that reason and we just had this vote less I mean a little more than a year ago I guess and I feel like it would be um really kind of a slap in the face to everyone who supported the compromise um zoning waren articles that we pass to to change it in this substantial way and yes there is discretion already in this um code it does allow for ranges of of um measurements it allows for deviations by um up to 25% in setbacks and things like that so I think there was consideration given to needing flexibility in the code and actually there were aspects of that that I didn't like and um but you know we compromised and we all voted for it so I think the issue of predictability from the developers point of view and the Public's point of view are why we've done this why we invested a great deal of funds and I think if if we need to see changes in this code then they need to be specific and brought to us and brought to town meeting to vote on specific changes because they need to know what is going to be possible to change um I I guess that's all I'm going to say about it I um I hope that you vote no action you know the other thing is we did get one proposal that does meet the code and that is the one that is in the village now the materials were another question and advisory subcommittee voted in favor of changing of allowing the additional materials so um we've had one example and I think we need to see more and if there are specific changes that need to be made they should be brought separately to town meetings so that we know again what we're getting and that we maintain the predictability thank you thank you is there anyone else online who wishes to speak on article what article 11 article 11 uh if so please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature at this time there are approximately 30 participants online line and no one is indicating their desire to speak okay we'll close the hearing and um unless anyone on the S board has further discussion we'll move on to the four voted votes that we have to take one more on article Paul I I just have one comment and you know you you've really given me a lot to think about Steve um on this because basically what you're saying is the the ranges are too tight it's too restrictive is is what you're saying and I and I I'm a firm believer that we need to have some predictability but I also think we should be creating beautiful buildings when whenever possible that are practical and no action seems too strong to me like no I is it possible for you a meeting of the minds with planning uh with the planning department to say you know can we move these things forward and provide a little bit more increase in tolerance and ranges versus just giving you you know the ability to to at your discretion do these things not all these things had to do with di dimensions and ranges I mean there was the IDE the thing that you know everything has to be aligned vertically or you need brackets under balconies uh there are lots of things like that that have nothing to do with numbers yeah but they're just Design Concepts that are very restrictive this this form based code was prepared by a bunch of people who graduated from the Notre Dame School of Architecture which on its splash splash page says you know this is the the home of the Classical School of Architecture I mean they would they would love to have um you know vrus designing their buildings and uh it it's very classically oriented and it doesn't really fit it provides no flexibility for contemporary design so that was my point is is there a way and again this could be a too big of an ass I mean think for you to for you to work with the planning department to come up with uh the the the type of flexibility that would allow for some of the variation uh that that that you're suggesting like I said it would almost involve going back through this thing Page by Page and making innumerable changes and edits and I I just I think it's much simpler to just to say you there's a little leeway here you don't you know if your windows don't align but this building looks okay you can go and that that one that child care center again that had some materials in it that uh first of all is it's subject to the do Amendment so we really can't uh judge them but if it hadn't been um it's using several materials that are also including metal windows that weren't allowed and there are some of the materials that are you know but we're changing that in you're changing that that I did watch public hearing by the way coincidence but you know it otherwise our first example would need either we couldn't do it or we're having to change the zoning to meet yeah um so uh I'm just when you talk about uh uh something as like window vertical window alignment you know everything lined up versus um offset offsetting them how do you have a finding that the elements that that an element like that that diverges from the fa from the facade articulation is um substantially consistent with the code well if it's massing materials I mean if it meets you know the big picture comp components of that code if it's got ground floor retail it's got appropriate transparency um you know if if it fits the big picture and meets most of these um extremely nitpicky specifics then you know you know it's sort of like pornography you know it when you see it or the opposite of that you know if something kind of fits yeah I mean that's the planning board has you know we have design review for any number of projects that any project that's over four units and design viiew has language in it about projects that are consistent with the massing um scale size Etc materials of what's around them and it's pretty vague but it's also pretty useful uh in you know we don't insist that everything look just like What's Next Door um but none of none of the members of the planning board are opponents of contemporary architecture you know per se there's some good contemporary buildings here there's some not so good ones um but and uh one more question I promise this is it forite at least for me um you've said that there are other uh examples of form based owning that don't have this level of detail in them yeah wouldn't it be simpler to just strip out that level of detail if you wanted to strip out section four I wouldn't complain I mean because that I mean I wrote a form BAS code for Lowel 15 years ago for downtown Lowel um it has none of that it has lots of stuff about setback and height and transparency and but it doesn't have any it doesn't prescribe all the materials that you can and cannot use and uh you know and it's there have been some very nice buildings developed there both Renovations of existing ones and and new ones in downtown Lowel Mike this is why and I'm sorry but but Mike this is why no doesn't feel right to me right that well no doesn't feel right but but you know could you please go work with the planning department and see if you could find a way out of this mess like that's that's what I would like to see happen here is some collaboration to say you know if that's possible yeah well to be honest I don't see a whole bunch of buildings coming forward to be so you have time closed under the Harvard Street zoning so you have time um you know we proposed something like this last year at town meeting at the very you know when the foris was first introduced but the moderator first said yeah that's okay we just said we wanted the same Le same more or less the same language first she said that's okay then she said no it's out of scope because it's you know loosening things and so okay this is more or less the same thing we we the planning board was trying to do a year ago well Steve I appreciate you coming forward G me a lot to think about so yeah we we and we'll think about it next time meeting okay um let's move on to Warren articles that we've had hearings on and we are going to bring them up for a vote um or not warn article 16 amend article 8.1 41 of the town's General bylaws to expand the requirements of tree preservation bylaw um where is that in terms of sorry hello good evening um so the advisory committee they voted this earlier tonight and I do have a uh revised version for you that I can call up on my screen um they did make amendments to the article they approved and what did they did they vote favorable action on their amend 18 to1 to four favorable action on the amended version that I'm about to call up on my screen so the their highlights are in yellow well that's see did she read them to us and exemptions on uh section 8.41 point4 could you blow that up for the blind man in the room me big big big big big big yes thank you okay is that better yes thank you so this is the first change here then this is another change under 4.3 tell me when I tell tell me when you want me to scroll down further it's hard for me what are can you just summarize like what yeah what did they what did they change or is the is the petitioner on that can just give us a summary she's in the room she raised her hand so why we she's in the room online the virtual room Elisa I've just promoted you thank you um so I I need to apologize but I'm not sure if this is just a question of timing so as Melissa noted we just went before the advisory committee earlier this evening and so I guess um um I I think you probably have not seen the materials from either the advisory the the um AC subcommittee that reviewed our warrant article or certainly the report from the advisory committee because they wouldn't have written it up yet so I don't know if um you know you want to proceed because there have been changes the changes that that Melissa just ran through are the changes that we made just from being in front of the advisor committee we made other changes since we were first before you because just for whatever reason the order of our presentation was that we sort of went before the select board almost first let's take this another time yeah uh we're gonna take this up at our next meeting on uh November 4 uh at which point hopefully we'll have all the should proposals and changes of advisor committee and others so I make a request excellent that we have at that time U an update opinion from Our Town Council as to whether there's a constitutional issue with the yeah both Town Council and DPW have restated their issues with this article yeah um there is still an issue of constitutionality here and we have no means of paying for it yeah yeah okay okay thank you all right thank you uh next warn article seven um Town amend 5.01 towns zoning by laws to restrict height to 2.5 stories and select SSC and T districts um Melissa where are we so the uh advisory committee voted 17 to1 to2 referral to the comp steering committee and then Maria is also here to answer any other questions you may have okay any questions uh from Maria no no uh let's see so AC uh referred to comp plan I will say there is an issue here that in dovet tales with Article 15 which is being postponed which we we won't we won't discuss tonight because we're still working out discussions with the substitute motion petitioners um language in here does have an impact on Article 15 which relates to the definition of a story um there is reference in Article 15 to the definition of a story that references this article so um if the this does not pass or is referred um you kind of have a hanging reference in Article 15 we'll fix that right one way to one way to fix that is you could strip everything out except that Lang except the definition of a story if you're not inclined to pass it I'm sorry goe you know yeah yeah CH could I just um say that there is already a definition of story uh in article two so um the Adu voo would reference the current um definition in article so the current definition and not the new definition okay that's right yeah okay what do we want to do with article um article 7 well I I would like I think I've I've made my opinion clear it's and it's a principal opinion I'm I'm an equal opportunity referrer here and I'm not referring every zoning article that comes before us uh but I do think the the articles that are are broadly impactful um across the town um um whether it's up zoning or down zoning um which to me is 789 and I don't want to say no to them um you know the the risk of anyway that's my opinion I I'd like to see us refer article seven and I would we on article 16 no on article seven we already 16 so article seven AC voted to refer and and and I would be very clear the subject matter don't prer the article the the comprehensive plan steering committee is not going to write zoning articles um but what we will do is take uh as input into our process the subject matter uh in the intent of the Articles as as part of as part of our recommendation which is going to come out in 18 months okay what do other people think um be the the sorry I yeah okay the com the I'm very sympathetic to referring this um partly because I don't like it as it stands uh to be perfectly honest but um and I don't it's I don't have a like or dislike yeah right no I understand but uh it was this is the the result of a town meeting vote um regarding uh uh zoning changes to reduce the likelihood of demolition of demolitions yeah and um while I don't you know uh I don't always pay that close attention to town meeting per to be perfectly honest um or agree with it uh uh this is we do have to remember that it came this did come from town meeting right so one we can we start action I'm inclined to support him yeah okay how you yeah I I am okay uh I move favorable action all in favor indicate by saying I John vanak hi Michael sandon hi uh Paul Warren obain uh David Perman I'm also say um chair votes I okay um that in I now warn article 12 um excuse me article 12 1040 my voice is uh slowly dying dying right power amend town of zoning by law at a section on outdoor lighting standards in residential districts uh this is similar to team but I assume we can't U take them together no we can't take them together we're voting um okay so article 12 the advisory committee voted 24 to0 to Zer to refer this to the planning department and then Nicole is here to answer any additional questions you may have hi good evening I did also want to give an update that we uh as staff uh met with the building department and Town Council and we are going to strike out section 710.30 pass the definition and also section 7.10 point4 B which refers to light trespass not being any more than 5 feet from the property line and this will allow for uh members of the community who wanted to pursue a general bylaw at the next town meeting to do that without having any conflict to this war call okay uh Paul yeah so I if I understand our if I remember our discussion from last time there was two issues about this one was this where should it be is should be in the zoning article should should it be in the bylaw and then two it's it's applicability retroactive so if you've got a blinding light coming in your in your window uh this does not allow you to have that fixed um so that's if that's if I remember those were the two M and I was very sympathetic with those with those uh two issues and I think I would be inclined to support uh referring it back for some more work I think the thought here and I'll let Nicole obviously fill in it was that for folks who wanted to see something done um the what we've done in stripping this out is we've we've laid open the possibilities that we won't trip up folks who are trying at a future town meeting to get that General bylaw in there that will then have retroactive applicability but still have some language in here about light that has been traditionally regulated by the zoning by law so that we have at least something it's not a perfect solution but it's a step in the right direction um that's the that was the aim and kind of whittling this down to something that can be contained within the zoning bylaw D but how does that address the concern by Town Council that if you pursue it through a zoning scheme then you can't just switch to a general bylaw so this by stripping out the stuff about light pollution and um you know this the issues that people were talking about with the broader um go the broader goals uh that then you're not addressing in the zoning by law that specific subject matter you're leaving that for a general by law and you just have more language in here about uh refining the lighting standards that already um that already um in some cases already exist or in other cases we're just adding specific language but doesn't regulate light trespass am I right in that Nicole I'm sorry I don't mean to yes I would just go a little further to say that these are more um design related for lighting standards rather than um for nuisance uh matters okay uh the advisory committee is referring it back to the planning department what do we think uh I I wish I was more secure in my knowledge of this but my understanding is that if it gets referred back to the planning department uh we will eventually see an article that uh addresses you know much more generally what do they call them dark dark sky dark sky you know um regulation um and uh I think that's a worthwhile thing to pursue um and so referring it back to planning board makes sense to me okay I do just want to say you know from a policy perspective right planning's budget right now is devoted to you know the the projects that we've you've asked us to focus on so okay fiser Hill Chestnut Hill um you know the those big the comp plan um so this the back on the back burner I I don't I don't think there would there's not you know um there's there's not there there's not staff support for for a dark SP skies I mean there's not there's not staff availability to take on a dark SK program at this juncture and won't be for a while until this backlog of projects get is your F gonna necessarily mean that they'll look at dark sky no not necessarily I mean what we we would probably I didn't care if Britain is here um you know we the split was at Town council's recommendation to and I think Town Council is online and can discuss if necessary um but yeah in the long run a a dark skies program would be something that would take a lot of a staff-led Dark Skies program is probably not feasible for the forseeable future if there was a community-led effort obviously we would be supportive and I'm sure Cara is to speak on before before before car speaks I just have one quick question about this so AC's vote was it on the Whittle down article or was it on the original one what did they refer they did not agree to the Whittle down version they didn't okay oh okay they saw it they did see it that version um okay um John may I may I just revise what I said um yeah you want to hear it first well no why well I want to revise what I said um if if indeed what was presented to us as being a problem a fundamental problem with a conflict between pursuing this um and you know the conflict of doing it through zoning doing it through bylaw if that's been solved then I I'm I'm okay with it um the only reason I had for hesitation was I thought there was going to be a push to expand upon this and to make some sort of dark sky legislation but it sounds like that's not going to happen so this might cure a problem for some people who have complained about harsh lighting David well I'm not it sounds like the planning department doesn't have the bandwidth to do it but that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a community-driven process to try to accomplish it and there are other municipalities in Massachusetts that have recently passed dark sky bylaws and so even if we just piggybacked off of another community did and Tinker with it I'm a little more optimistic that we could still get something to town meeting fairly soon without having to utilize staff resources too heavily but in the metime what about this can I so can can okay quick it's unclear to so what is the Whittle down article actually doing can um we get some real Clarity on that yeah what is it what is it proposing now can you see my screen yes can you make it a little bigger so it's it's pretty simple it's only striking through uh two sections this is section 10 7103 definitions B Light Pass it's striking that defin that proposed definition and then where definition is referenced under D for uh standards direct lights will not TransPass onto adjacent property more than 5 ft beyond the lot line at the ground plane so that removes any um like trespass or kind of glare nuisance related standards that we're in here um um most or all of the other ones are related to the actual luminares themselves being fully shielded um specific Calvin levels things that are related to design and um hours for seasonal lighting which is already part of the zoning bylaw okay Mike you have a comment no I'm sufficiently confused so that I don't want to say anything anyone have a motion David I I move that we refer back to planning but with the understanding that there will very likely be a community-driven effort to not overutilize already stretched resources uh I'm not comfortable with this new version that we're getting is I don't think it really addresses the concerns that uh were the Genesis of the proposal and so I would rather that we deal with it in a comprehensive way that actually addresses the issue in particular the retroactive applicability of it I'm quite confident that we have members in the community who will be willing to put in the effort to bring something forward uh probably in time for may even and like I said there are other communities who have done this recently we can look at right the Dark Skies by law we can look at their language and adjust accordingly yeah or I'm sorry but now I have a question yeah D what is dark no is this or isn't this applicable retroactive I yeah I thought I thought thought I was hearing we fixed that that it can be uh applicable retroactively so I mean no so this this the the fix is bring a general bylaw in the spring yeah that's how you fix the you bring bring a general bylaw about light pollution in the spring and in the interim do this fix in the zoning code for the definitions of the lights that does things like you know talking about light shielding not having lights blinking having holiday lights off from 12 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. um all of that stuff but not don't talk about nuisance right nuisance like noise is regulated under our J this is perspective only yes perspective well I I still think it's useful to have it on the on the okay so David has proposed a referral um if we vote that down we can take up the issue of uh or question of um favorable act Cara has I do know it's like I understand everything that everybody is saying here and I'm just asking that I would prefer that you just vote it down that would be cleaner to David's point if there's Community um interest in doing this we will work with them we will give them the language we have we just can't take on asking the community if they want to go into a dark sky set of conditions if that's what the community wants to do that's great but referring this article back to us isn't isn't going to help us out of that do Loop and and why are we talking about dark skies and it's not in in the article that's right us out there and it also didn't come up when we started working with residents six months ago on article um but it's where the community seems to be headed so some people I mean I don't want I'd much rather just a clean vote no so I want to Sor I have a question for car as to the the meaning of what she just said um so so you were saying you prefer over what David suggested that it just be voted down but do you have any objection to our adopting this no we would love for the um the article as Nicole presented it to move forward um because takes care of some I don't have to change my mind so I so I um I I may be leaning towards John um and we may need a dark skies article in the future but you know today why is that even coming well I I just don't know but we today we have people that are installing lights right and they're installing them in a way that is is has a negative impact yeah right um and and yes it wouldn't be you wouldn't be able to go back but that could be brought in the future but I I'm kind of with Johan that why would we not put something in place so I I'm kind of inclined to support well we were just told that section came out that this is no longer going to be nuisance related it's about the types of lights that you can install but it's not going to be about the nuisance it creates for adjacent properties so not reallying it so why not put it in if if we're if this is about if we put it in standards for the for life on you know new installations of course we should have St because if we put in the nuisance part then we're stuck in zoning and we can't have the general bylaw later we they crossed it out right so there's no there's no more nuisance language in this article we're not addressing problem but you are doing something you're not you're not you're not creating a nuisance you're not you're not creating like a noise nuisance by law but you are adjusting the definitions um why don't we have Town Council app Pine on this since this split came in Joe are you on yes yes sorry so um what we try to do is if this is referred to planning then what would come back is a zoning article and a and a general bylaw so that's why we try to address the concerns that people have about doing something related to nuisance which can't be in in zoning because you can't go uh backwards it's only perspective so if there is an interest in addressing that concern we took it out of this bylaw that only addresses design standards and stays in zoning so we can do all that but we could do that in the fall and then in the spring whomever can come up with some types of General bylaw related to nuisance that would be very clear zoning is design standards as it should be nuisance is in the general bylaws as it should be so it's very it's a very nice and and and segregated but there are still concerns about having some design standards as to lighting which we could do in November but if it's referred back it won't be done in November okay John quick and that yeah yeah David has a motion I'm just going to read from from what's in front of us uh to prescribe out their lighting standards to reduce light pollution and enhance the environmental and visual quality of the community um you know that's a good goal to have I'm take I take it on faith that that this has been written in a way that actually accomplishes that in our zoning so I'm fine with it okay um David's motion if it's still on the table it was is on the table no I I I I respect but I okay so I move a favorable action on Warren article whatever we're on 12 all in favor please indicate by saying hi John vqu hi Michael samon hi Paul Warren hi David prman hi and Cher oai uh let's move on to Warren Article 13 uh similar but not the same signs elimination and regulated facade alternations um so um the advisory committee voted 19 to0 to2 on an amended version of the article um I do have the amended version unfortunately it's not marked up um with what the advisory committee changed so I'm hoping that maybe Nicole might be able to help us out um otherwise if um if we don't have that kind of spelled out we may need to add this to the fourth I think I can summarize them pretty quickly there's really only uh four changes that they made um and we presented this draft to the advisory um board after or advisory committee after the subcommittee uh hearing so the first change I can share my screen so we can follow along first changes to remove uh we can't see that make it bigger please Zoom it up you lost it five minutes until 11 o'clock we can do it just just saying pumpkin yes it's the bottom of the eighth inning New York okay let's go she's got it it's six to four are ahead six to four yeah can you see my screen now yes thank you okay the first change is that we uh removed the proposal to make uh banner and projecting signs able to be internally illuminated the current bylaw says that they shall not be we are just proposing to leave it as is the second change is for the second part of this um D says and no more than shall be no more than six inches in depth that's the new language previously it said thck staff agreed with the um subcommittee's recommendation to change that to an in-depth which would be consistent with other language in the zoning bylaw okay wait what does that change you're taking out the six inches nope just changing the wording from thick to in-depth okay from thick to in-depth is that what MH yes you know more than six Ines okay in depth okay what's next the next is uh they asked us to leave in the electronic uh notification for uh town meeting members which we had originally proposed to remove and staff is fine with leaving that as an email only um and just having removing the fortune that required uh mailed notices to town meeting members so that's in section 3B and then the fourth uh one is the word appropriateness which was found in um section 771a uh where the we changed it to where the planning board finds that the sign uh complies with the sign and facade guidelines we agree that the word appropriateness is a little bit vague and it's better to make it based on a finding with the design guidelines good okay those are the four yep yeah um it sounds good to me what other people other people think I I still I still don't understand why we need it I mean I you know I know we may do it but I I just don't understand why why why it's needed could you could you give just a brief explanation as to why are businesses asking us for this was this how do we come up with this for the projecting sign yeah change um yeah we did have a lot of businesses or Andor sign designers coming in saying it's very difficult to design a projecting sign with which is only 12 inches from a building wall it just with bracketing and things like that it doesn't make sense um it doesn't provide for any type of um good good design I move favorable okay all in favor uh John vak uh I I have problems with that I well I can ask the question if you want but um well well could could you explain the the provision in in this as it now stands in terms of lighting of Illuminating of those signs so right now the bylaw um says that projecting signs shall not be illuminate internally illuminated and we're not proposing to change that in the current version so so it remains they shall not be illuminated and I'm not I'm talking about I'm talking about not illuminated from within and not illuminated by shining a light on them you could have a goose neck light um exterior the sign currently currently currently we're not that preser that preserves the go that yeah okay well all right I'll go I'm I'll go I'll say yes okay any other discussion okay on in Favor John v ah yes I'm sorry Mike Simon hi um David no David Warren i Warren David hi and share votes I okay final item on our agenda is an appointment to you've got 14 I thought 14 15 is 15 will will postpone we're not ready but 14 I thought 14 was referred already okay I guess we have to decide that Mr chairman this is could I just mention I think we could delay uh 14 to November 4th because the planning board recently made an amendment to that which I was not able to send to you in advance um so I would just like the opportunity for you to see that Amendment okay what has AC done on this uh they have referred it to the comp planning steering committee I I don't believe um fully see did they really they referred it to the comp I'm just yeah they did I'm pretty sure will AC see I know that the sub subcommittee did okay okay um then we will take this up on November 4th day before the election uh when we hopefully will not be here when the voting starts no one got that yeah okay Bo and commissions new appointment age friendly cities committee Wendy dnik um on in favor of appointing her to the agef friendly cities committee please indicate by saying I John vanak I Michael sandon hi Paul Warren hi David growman I and chair votes I uh are there any is there anyone who would like to do a post meeting comment is there anyone online who wishes to make a public comment there are 18 participants online and no one is raising their hand okay with that yep I closed the meeting we did uh end and on the same day we started so that's good